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[Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
> TP> I'm reading this now as that you trained on about 220 spam and
> TP> about 220 ham. That's less than 10% of the sizes of the
> TP> training sets I've been using. Please try an experiment: train
> TP> on 550 of each, and test once against the other 550 of each.
[Jeremy]
> This helps a lot!
Possibly. I checked in a change to classifier.py overnight (getting rid of
MINCOUNT) that gave a major improvement in the f-n rate too, independent of
tokenization.
> Here are results with the stock tokenizer:
Unsure what "stock tokenizer" means to you. For example, it might mean
tokenizer.tokenize, or mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize.
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 0> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 8>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 0.000 10.413
> 1.398 6.104
> 1.398 5.027
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 0> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 0.000 8.259
> 1.242 2.873
> 1.242 5.745
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 2> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 3>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 1.398 5.206
> 1.398 4.488
> 0.000 9.336
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 2> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 1.553 5.206
> 1.553 5.027
> 0.000 9.874
> total false pos 139 5.39596273292
> total false neg 970 43.5368043088
Note that those rates remain much higher than I got using just 220 of ham
and 220 of spam. That remains A Mystery.
> And results from the tokenizer that looks at all headers except Date,
> Received, and X-From_:
Unsure what that means too. For example, "looks at" might mean you enabled
Anthony's count-them gimmick, and/or that you're tokenizing them yourself,
and/or ...?
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 0> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 8>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 0.000 7.540
> 0.932 4.847
> 0.932 3.232
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 0> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 0.000 7.181
> 0.621 2.873
> 0.621 4.847
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 2> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 3>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 1.087 4.129
> 1.087 3.052
> 0.000 6.822
> Training on <mbox: /home/jeremy/Mail/INBOX 2> & <mbox:
> /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
> ... 644 hams & 557 spams
> 0.776 3.411
> 0.776 3.411
> 0.000 6.463
> total false pos 97 3.76552795031
> total false neg 738 33.1238779174
>
> Is it safe to conclude that avoiding any cleverness with headers is a
> good thing?
Since I don't know what you did, exactly, I can't guess. What you seemed to
show is that you did *something* clever with headers and that doing so
helped (the "after" numbers are better than the "before" numbers, right?).
Assuming that what you did was override what's now
tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers with some other routine, and didn't
call the base Tokenizer.tokenize_headers at all, then you're missing
carefully tested treatment of just a few header fields, but adding many
dozens of other header fields. There's no question that adding more header
fields should help; tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers doesn't do so only
because my testing corpora are such that I can't add more headers without
getting major benefits for bogus reasons.
Apart from all that, you said you're skipping Received. By several
accounts, that may be the most valuable of all the header fields. I'm
(meaning tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers) skipping them too for the
reason explained above. Offline a week or two ago, Neil Schemenauer
reported good results from this scheme:
ip_re = re.compile(r'(\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3})')
for header in msg.get_all("received", ()):
for ip in ip_re.findall(header):
parts = ip.split(".")
for n in range(1, 5):
yield 'received:' + '.'.join(parts[:n])
This makes a lot of sense to me; I just checked it in, but left it disabled
for now.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Guido]
> Perhaps more useful would be if Tim could check in the pickle(s?)
> generated by one of his training runs, so that others can see how
> Tim's training data performs against their own corpora.
I did that yesterday, but seems like nobody bit. Just in case <wink>, I
uploaded a new version just now. Since MINCOUNT went away, UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB
is much less likely, and there's almost nothing that can be pruned away (so
the file is about 5x larger now).
http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61702
> This could also be the starting point for a self-contained distribution
> (you've got to start with *something*, and training with python-list data
> seems just as good as anything else).
The only way to know anything here is for someone to try it.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
Here's clarification of why I did:
First test results using tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers()
unmodified.
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
0.000 10.413
1.398 6.104
1.398 5.027
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
0.000 8.259
1.242 2.873
1.242 5.745
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
1.398 5.206
1.398 4.488
0.000 9.336
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
1.553 5.206
1.553 5.027
0.000 9.874
total false pos 139 5.39596273292
total false neg 970 43.5368043088
Second test results using mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize_headers().
This uses all headers except Received, Data, and X-From_.
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
0.000 7.540
0.932 4.847
0.932 3.232
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
0.000 7.181
0.621 2.873
0.621 4.847
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
1.087 4.129
1.087 3.052
0.000 6.822
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
0.776 3.411
0.776 3.411
0.000 6.463
total false pos 97 3.76552795031
total false neg 738 33.1238779174
Jeremy
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
> [Guido]
> > Perhaps more useful would be if Tim could check in the pickle(s?)
> > generated by one of his training runs, so that others can see how
> > Tim's training data performs against their own corpora.
[Tim]
> I did that yesterday, but seems like nobody bit.
I downloaded and played with it a bit, but had no time to do anything
systematic. It correctly recognized a spam that slipped through SA.
But it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any
MIME structure or HTML parts, and several messages in my saved 'zope
geeks' list that happened to be using MIME and/or HTML.
So I guess I'll have to retrain it (yes, you told me so :-).
> Just in case <wink>, I
> uploaded a new version just now. Since MINCOUNT went away, UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB
> is much less likely, and there's almost nothing that can be pruned away (so
> the file is about 5x larger now).
>
> http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61702
I'll try this when I have time.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
Before we get too far down this road, what do people think of creating a
spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer? This is just to
minimize clutter in site-packages.
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
[Jeremy Hylton]
> Here's clarification of why I did:
That's pretty much what I had guessed. Thanks! One more to try:
> First test results using tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers()
> unmodified.
> ...
> Second test results using mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize_headers().
> This uses all headers except Received, Data, and X-From_.
> ...
Try the latter again, but call the base tokenize_headers() too.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
> Before we get too far down this road, what do people think of creating a
> spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer? This is just to
> minimize clutter in site-packages.
Too early IMO (if you mean to leave the various other tools out of
it). If and when we package this, perhaps we should use Barry's trick
from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel dir
of the distribution (rather than requiring an extra directory level
just so the package can be a subdir of the distro).
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Guido, on the classifier pickle on SF]
> I downloaded and played with it a bit, but had no time to do anything
> systematic.
Cool!
> It correctly recognized a spam that slipped through SA.
Ditto.
> But it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any
> MIME structure or HTML parts, and several messages in my saved 'zope
> geeks' list that happened to be using MIME and/or HTML.
Do you know why? The strangest implied claim there is that it hates MIME
independent of HTML. For example, the spamprob of 'content-type:text/plain'
in that pickle is under 0.21. 'content-type:multipart/alternative' gets
0.93, but that's not a killer clue, and one bit of good content will more
than cancel it out.
WRT hating HTML, possibilities include:
1. It really had to do with something other than MIME/HTML.
2. These are pure HTML (not multipart/alternative with a text/plain part),
so that the tags aren't getting stripped. The pickled classifier
despises all hints of HTML due to its c.l.py heritage.
3. These are multipart/alternative with a text/plain part, but the
latter doesn't contain the same text as the text/html part (for
example, as Anthony reported, perhaps the text/plain part just
says something like "This is an HMTL message.").
If it's #2, it would be easy to add an optional bool argument to tokenize()
meaning "even if it is pure HTML, strip the tags anyway". In fact, I'd like
to do that and default it to True. The extreme hatred of HTML on tech lists
strikes me as, umm, extreme <wink>.
> So I guess I'll have to retrain it (yes, you told me so :-).
That would be a different experiment. I'm certainly curious to see whether
Jeremy's much-worse-than-mine error rates are typical or aberrant.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
> > But it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any
> > MIME structure or HTML parts, and several messages in my saved 'zope
> > geeks' list that happened to be using MIME and/or HTML.
>
> Do you know why? The strangest implied claim there is that it hates MIME
> independent of HTML. For example, the spamprob of 'content-type:text/plain'
> in that pickle is under 0.21. 'content-type:multipart/alternative' gets
> 0.93, but that's not a killer clue, and one bit of good content will more
> than cancel it out.
I reran the experiment (with the new SpamHam1.pik, but it doesn't seem
to make a difference). Here are the clues for the two spams in my
inbox (in hammie.py's output format, which sorts the clues by
probability; the first two numbers are the message number and overall
probability; then line-folded):
66 1.00 S 'facility': 0.01; 'speaker': 0.01; 'stretch': 0.01;
'thursday': 0.01; 'young,': 0.01; 'mistakes': 0.12; 'growth':
0.85; '>content-type:text/plain': 0.85; 'please': 0.85; 'capital':
0.92; 'series': 0.92; 'subject:Don': 0.94; 'companies': 0.96;
'>content-type:text/html': 0.96; 'fee': 0.96; 'money': 0.96;
'8:00am': 0.99; '9:00am': 0.99; '>content-type:image/gif': 0.99;
'>content-type:multipart/alternative': 0.99; 'attend': 0.99;
'companies,': 0.99; 'content-type/type:multipart/alternative':
0.99; 'content-type:multipart/related': 0.99; 'economy': 0.99;
'economy"': 0.99
This has 6 content-types as spam clues, only one of which is related
to HTML, despite there being an HTML alternative (and 12 other spam
clues, vs. only 6 ham clues). This was an announcement of a public
event by our building owners, with a text part that was the same as
the HTML (AFAICT). Its language may be spammish, but the content-type
clues didn't help. (BTW, it makes me wonder about the wisdom of
keeping punctuation -- 'economy' and 'economy"' to me don't seem to
deserve two be counted as clues.)
76 1.00 S '(near': 0.01; 'alexandria': 0.01; 'conn': 0.01;
'from:adam': 0.01; 'from:email addr:panix': 0.01; 'poked': 0.01;
'thorugh': 0.01; 'though': 0.03; "i'm": 0.03; 'reflect': 0.05;
"i've": 0.06; 'wednesday': 0.07; 'content-disposition:inline':
0.10; 'contacting': 0.93; 'sold': 0.96; 'financially': 0.98;
'prices': 0.98; 'rates': 0.99; 'discount.': 0.99; 'hotel': 0.99;
'hotels': 0.99; 'hotels.': 0.99; 'nights,': 0.99; 'plaza': 0.99;
'rates,': 0.99; 'rates.': 0.99; 'rooms': 0.99; 'season': 0.99;
'stations': 0.99; 'subject:Hotel': 0.99
Here is the full message (Received: headers stripped), with apologies
to Ziggy and David:
"""
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 17:17:13 -0400
From: Adam Turoff <ziggy@panix.com>
Subject: Hotel information
To: guido@python.org, davida@activestate.com
Message-id: <20020906211713.GK7451@panix.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i
I've been looking into hotels. I poked around expedia for availability
from March 26 to 29 (4 nights, wednesday thorugh saturday).
I've also started contacting hotels for group rates; some of the group
rates are no better than the regular rates, and they require signing a
contract with a minimum number of rooms sold (with someone financially
responsible for unbooked rooms). Most hotels are less than responsive...
Radission - Barcelo Hotel (DuPont Circle)
$125/night, $99/weekend
State Plaza hotel (Foggy Bottom; near GWU)
$119/night, $99/weekend
Hilton Silver Spring (Near Metro, in suburban MD)
$99/hight, $74/weekend
Windsor Park Hotel
Conn Ave, between DuPont Circle/Woodley Park Metro stations
$95/night; needs a car
Econo Lodge Alexandria (Near Metro, in suburban VA)
$95/night
This is a hand picked list; I ignored anything over $125/night, even
though there are some really well situated hotels nearby at higher rates.
Also, I'm not sure how much these prices reflect an expedia-only
discount. I can't vouch for any of these hotels, either.
I also found out that the down season for DC Hotels are mid-june through
mid-september, and mid-november through mid-january.
Z.
"""
This one has no MIME structure nor HTML! It even has a
Content-disposition which is counted as a non-spam clue. It got
f-p'ed because of the many hospitality-related and money-related
terms. I'm surprised $125/night and similar aren't clues too. (And
again, several spam clues are duplicated with different variations:
'hotel', 'hotels', 'hotels.', 'subject:Hotel', 'rates,', 'rates.'.
> WRT hating HTML, possibilities include:
>
> 1. It really had to do with something other than MIME/HTML.
>
> 2. These are pure HTML (not multipart/alternative with a text/plain part),
> so that the tags aren't getting stripped. The pickled classifier
> despises all hints of HTML due to its c.l.py heritage.
>
> 3. These are multipart/alternative with a text/plain part, but the
> latter doesn't contain the same text as the text/html part (for
> example, as Anthony reported, perhaps the text/plain part just
> says something like "This is an HMTL message.").
>
> If it's #2, it would be easy to add an optional bool argument to tokenize()
> meaning "even if it is pure HTML, strip the tags anyway". In fact, I'd like
> to do that and default it to True. The extreme hatred of HTML on tech lists
> strikes me as, umm, extreme <wink>.
I also looked in more detail at some f-p's in my geeks traffic. The
first one's a doozie (that's the term, right? :-). It has lots of
HTML clues that are apparently ignored. It was a multipart/mixed with
two parts: a brief text/plain part containing one or two sentences, a
mondo weird URL:
http://x60.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=687715863&CONTEXT=973121507.1408827441&hitnum=23
and some employer-generated spammish boilerplate; the second part was
the HTML taken directly from the above URL. Clues:
43 1.00 S '"main"': 0.01; '(later': 0.01; '(lots': 0.01; '--paul':
0.01; '1995-2000': 0.01; 'adopt': 0.01; 'apps': 0.01; 'commands':
0.01; 'deja.com': 0.01; 'dejanews,': 0.01; 'discipline': 0.01;
'duct': 0.01; 'email addr:digicool': 0.01; 'email name:paul':
0.01; 'everitt': 0.01; 'exist,': 0.01; 'forwards': 0.01;
'framework': 0.01; 'from:email addr:digicool': 0.01; 'from:email
name:<paul': 0.01; 'from:paul': 0.01; 'height': 0.01;
'hodge-podge': 0.01; 'http0:deja': 0.01; 'http0:zope': 0.01;
'http1:[st_rn': 0.01; 'http1:comp': 0.01; 'http1:getdoc': 0.01;
'http1:ps]': 0.01; 'http>1:22': 0.01; 'http>1:24': 0.01;
'http>1:57': 0.01; 'http>1:an': 0.01; 'http>1:author': 0.01;
'http>1:fmt': 0.01; 'http>1:getdoc': 0.01; 'http>1:pr': 0.01;
'http>1:products': 0.01; 'http>1:query': 0.01; 'http>1:search':
0.01; 'http>1:viewthread': 0.01; 'http>1:xp': 0.01; 'http>1:zope':
0.01; 'inventing': 0.01; 'jsp': 0.01; 'jsp.': 0.01; 'logic': 0.01;
'maps': 0.01; 'neo': 0.01; 'newsgroup,': 0.01; 'object': 0.01;
'popup': 0.01; 'probable': 0.01; 'query': 0.01; 'query,': 0.01;
'resizes': 0.01; 'servlet': 0.01; 'skip:? 20': 0.01; 'stems':
0.01; 'subject:JSP': 0.01; 'sucks!': 0.01; 'templating': 0.01;
'tempted': 0.01; 'url.': 0.01; 'usenet': 0.01; 'usenet,': 0.01;
'wrote': 0.01; 'x-mailer:mozilla 4.74 [en] (windows nt 5.0; u)':
0.01; 'zope': 0.01; '#000000;': 0.99; '#cc0000;': 0.99;
'#ff3300;': 0.99; '#ff6600;': 0.99; '#ffffff;': 0.99; '©':
0.99; '>': 0.99; ' ': 0.99; '"no': 0.99;
'.med': 0.99; '.small': 0.99; '0pt;': 0.99; '0px;': 0.99; '10px;':
0.99; '11pt;': 0.99; '12px;': 0.99; '18pt;': 0.99; '18px;': 0.99;
'1pt;': 0.99; '2px;': 0.99; '640;': 0.99; '8pt;': 0.99; '<!--':
0.99; '</b>': 0.99; '</body>': 0.99; '</head>': 0.99; '</html>':
0.99; '</script>': 0.99; '</select>': 0.99; '</span>': 0.99;
'</style>': 0.99; '</table>': 0.99; '</td>': 0.99; '</td></tr>':
0.99; '</tr>': 0.99; '</tr><tr': 0.99; '<b><a': 0.99; '<base':
0.99; '<body': 0.99; '<br>': 0.99; '<br> ': 0.99; '<br><a':
0.99; '<br><span': 0.99; '<font': 0.99; '<form': 0.99; '<head>':
0.99; '<html>': 0.99; '<img': 0.99; '<input': 0.99; '<meta': 0.99;
'<option': 0.99; '<p>': 0.99; '<p>a': 0.99; '<script>': 0.99;
'<select': 0.99; '<span': 0.99; '<style>': 0.99; '<table': 0.99;
'<td': 0.99; '<td>': 0.99; '<td></td>': 0.99; '<td><img': 0.99;
'<tr': 0.99; '<tr>': 0.99; '<tr><td': 0.99; '<tr><td><img': 0.99;
'absolute;': 0.99; 'align="left"': 0.99; 'align=center': 0.99;
'align=left': 0.99; 'align=middle': 0.99; 'align=right': 0.99;
'align=right>': 0.99; 'alt=""': 0.99; 'bold;': 0.99; 'border=0':
0.99; 'border=0>': 0.99; 'color:': 0.99; 'colspan=2': 0.99;
'colspan=2>': 0.99; 'colspan=4': 0.99; 'face="arial"': 0.99;
'font-family:': 0.99; 'font-size:': 0.99; 'font-weight:': 0.99;
'footer': 0.99; 'for<br>': 0.99; 'fucking<br>': 0.99;
'height="1"': 0.99; 'height="16"': 0.99; 'height=1': 0.99;
'height=12': 0.99; 'height=125': 0.99; 'height=17': 0.99;
'height=18': 0.99; 'height=21': 0.99; 'height=4': 0.99;
'height=57': 0.99; 'height=60': 0.99; 'height=8': 0.99;
'hspace=0': 0.99; 'http0:g': 0.99; 'http0:web2': 0.99; 'http1:0':
0.99; 'http1:ads': 0.99; 'http1:d': 0.99; 'http1:page': 0.99;
'http1:site': 0.99; 'http>1:article': 0.99; 'http>1:back': 0.99;
'http>1:com': 0.99; 'http>1:d': 0.99; 'http>1:gif': 0.99;
'http>1:go': 0.99; 'http>1:group': 0.99; 'http>1:http': 0.99;
'http>1:post': 0.99; 'http>1:ps': 0.99; 'http>1:site': 0.99;
'http>1:st': 0.99; 'http>1:title': 0.99; 'http>1:yahoo': 0.99;
'inc.</a>': 0.99; 'jobs!': 0.99; 'normal;': 0.99; 'nowrap': 0.99;
'nowrap>': 0.99; 'nowrap><font': 0.99; 'padding:': 0.99;
'rowspan=2': 0.99; 'rowspan=3': 0.99; 'servlets,': 0.99;
'size=15': 0.99; 'size=35': 0.99; 'skip:< 10': 0.99; 'skip:b 60':
0.99; 'skip:h 110': 0.99; 'skip:h 170': 0.99; 'skip:h 200': 0.99;
'skip:h 240': 0.99; 'skip:h 250': 0.99; 'skip:h 290': 0.99;
'skip:v 40': 0.99; 'solid;': 0.99; 'text=#000000': 0.99; 'to<br>':
0.99; 'type="image"': 0.99; 'type="text"': 0.99; 'type=hidden':
0.99; 'type=image': 0.99; 'type=radio': 0.99; 'type=submit': 0.99;
'type=text': 0.99; 'valign=top': 0.99; 'valign=top>': 0.99;
'value="">': 0.99; 'visibility:': 0.99; 'width:': 0.99;
'width="33"': 0.99; 'width=1': 0.99; 'width=100%': 0.99;
'width=100%>': 0.99; 'width=12': 0.99; 'width=125': 0.99;
'width=130': 0.99; 'width=137': 0.99; 'width=2': 0.99; 'width=20':
0.99; 'width=25': 0.99; 'width=4': 0.99; 'width=468': 0.99;
'width=6': 0.99; 'width=72': 0.99; 'works<br>': 0.99
The second f-p had the same structure (and sender :-); the third f-p
had the same structure and a different sender. Ditto the fifth, sixth. (Not posting clues for
brevity.)
The fourth was different: plaintext with one very short sentence and a
URL. Clues:
300 1.00 S 'from:email addr:digicool': 0.01; 'http1:news': 0.24;
'from:email addr:com>': 0.32; 'from:tres': 0.50; 'http>1:1114digi':
0.50; 'proto:http': 0.50; 'subject:Geeks': 0.50; 'x-mailer:mozilla
4.75 [en] (x11; u; linux 2.2.14-5.0smp i686)': 0.50; 'take': 0.54;
'bool:noorg': 0.61; 'http0:com': 0.66; 'skip:h 50': 0.83;
'http>1:htm': 0.90; 'subject:Software': 0.96; 'http>1:business':
0.99; 'http>1:local': 0.99; 'subject:firm': 0.99; 'us:': 0.99
The seventh was similar.
I scanned a bunch more until I got bored, and most of them were either
of the first form (brief text with URL followed by quoted HTML from
website) or the second (brief text with one or more URLs).
It's up to you to decide what to call this, but I think these are none
of your #1, #2 or #3 (they're close to #3, but all are multipart/mixed
rather than multipart/alternative).
> > So I guess I'll have to retrain it (yes, you told me so :-).
>
> That would be a different experiment. I'm certainly curious to see whether
> Jeremy's much-worse-than-mine error rates are typical or aberrant.
It's possible that the corpus you've trained on is more homogeneous
than you thought.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
> > I also looked in more detail at some f-p's in my geeks traffic. The
> > first one's a doozie (that's the term, right? :-). It has lots of
> > HTML clues that are apparently ignored.
>
> ?? The clues below are *loaded* with snippets unique to HTML (like '<br>').
I *meant* to say that they were 0.99 clues cancelled out by 0.01
clues. But that's wrong too! It looks I haven't grokked this part of
your code yet; this one has way more than 16 clues, and it seems the
classifier basically ended up counting way more 0.99 than 0.01 clues,
and no others made it into the list. I thought it was looking for
clues with values in between; apparently it found none that weren't
exactly 0.5?
> That sure sets the record for longest list of cancelling extreme clues!
This happened to be the longest one, but there were quite a few
similar ones. I wonder if there's anything we can learn from looking
at the clues and the HTML. It was heavily marked-up HTML, with ads in
the sidebar, but the body text was a serious discussion of "OO and
soft coding" with lots of highly technical words as clues (including
Zope and ZEO).
> That there are *any* 0.50 clues in here means the scheme ran out of
> anything interesting to look at. Adding in more header lines should
> cure that.
Are there any minable-but-unmined header lines in your corpus left?
Or do we have to start with a different corpus before we can make
progress there?
> > The seventh was similar.
> >
> > I scanned a bunch more until I got bored, and most of them were either
> > of the first form (brief text with URL followed by quoted HTML from
> > website)
>
> If those were text/plain, the HTML tags should have been stripped. I'm
> still confused about this part.
No, sorry. These were all of the following structure:
multipart/mixed
text/plain (brief text plus URL(s))
text/html (long HTML copied from website)
I guess you get this when you click on "mail this page" in some
browsers.
> That HTML tags aren't getting stripped remains the biggest mystery to me.
Still?
> This seems confused: Jeremy didn't use my trained classifier pickle,
> he trained his own classifier from scratch on his own corpora.
> That's an entirely different kind of experiment from the one you're
> trying (indeed, you're the only one so far to report results from
> trying my pickle on their own email, and I never expected *that* to
> work well; it's a much bigger mystery to me why Jeremy got such
> relatively worse results from training his own -- and he's the only
> one so far to report results from *that* experiment).
I think it's still corpus size.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Guido]
> I *meant* to say that they were 0.99 clues cancelled out by 0.01
> clues. But that's wrong too! It looks I haven't grokked this part of
> your code yet; this one has way more than 16 clues, and it seems the
> classifier basically ended up counting way more 0.99 than 0.01 clues,
> and no others made it into the list. I thought it was looking for
> clues with values in between; apparently it found none that weren't
> exactly 0.5?
There's a brief discussion of this before the definition of
MAX_DISCRIMINATORS. All clues with prob MIN_SPAMPROB and MAX_SPAMPROB are
saved in min and max lists, and all other clues are fed into the nbest heap.
Then the shorter of the min and max lists cancels out the same number of
clues in the longer list. Whatever remains of the longer list (if anything)
is then fed into the nbest heap too, but no more than MAX_DISCRIMINATORS of
them. In no case do more than MAX_DISCRIMINATORS clues enter into the final
probability calculation, but all of the min and max lists go into the list
of clues (else you'd have no clue that massive cancellation was occurring;
and massive cancellation may yet turn out to be a hook to signal that manual
review is needed). In your specific case, the excess of clues in the longer
MAX_SPAMPROB list pushed everything else out of the nbest heap, and that's
why you didn't see anything other than 0.01 and 0.99.
Before adding these special lists, the outcome when faced with many 0.01 and
0.99 clues was too often a coin toss: whichever flavor just happened to
appear MAX_DISCRIMINATORS//2 + 1 times first determined the final outcome.
>> That sure sets the record for longest list of cancelling extreme clues!
> This happened to be the longest one, but there were quite a few
> similar ones.
I just beat it <wink>: a tokenization scheme that folds case, and ignores
punctuation, and strips a trailing 's' from words, and saves both word
bigrams and word unigrams, turned up a low-probability very long spam with a
list of 410 0.01 clues and 125 0.99 clues! Yikes.
> I wonder if there's anything we can learn from looking at the clues and
the
> HTML. It was heavily marked-up HTML, with ads in the sidebar, but the
body
> text was a serious discussion of "OO and soft coding" with lots of highly
> technical words as clues (including Zope and ZEO).
No matter how often it says Zope, it gets only one 0.01 clue from doing so.
Ditto for ZEO. In contrast, HTML markup has many unique "words" that get
0.99. BTW, this is a clear case where the assumption of
conditionally-independent word probabilities is utterly bogus -- e.g., the
probability that "<body>" appears in a message is highly correlated with the
prob of "<br>" appearing. By treating them as independent, naive Bayes
grossly misjudges the probability that both appear, and the only thing you
get in return is something that can actually be computed <wink>.
Read the "What about HTML?" section in tokenizer.py. From the very start,
I've been investigating what would work best for the mailing lists hosted at
python.org, and HTML decorations have so far been too strong a clue to
justify ignoring it in that specific context. I haven't done anything
geared toward personal email, including the case of non-mailing-list email
that happens to go through python.org.
I'd prefer to strip HTML tags from everything, but last time I tried that it
still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora (the full test
results with and without HTML tag stripping is included in the "What about
HTML?" comment block). But as the comment block also says,
# XXX So, if another way is found to slash the f-n rate, the decision here
# XXX not to strip HTML from HTML-only msgs should be revisited.
and we've since done several things that gave significant f-n rate
reductions. I should test that again now.
> Are there any minable-but-unmined header lines in your corpus left?
Almost all of them -- apart from MIME decorations that appear in both
headers and bodies (like Content-Type), the *only* header lines the base
tokenizer looks at now are Subject, From, X-Mailer, and Organization.
> Or do we have to start with a different corpus before we can make
> progress there?
I would need different data, yes. My ham is too polluted with Mailman
header decorations (which I may or may not be able to clean out, but fudging
the data is a Mortal Sin and I haven't changed a byte so far), and my spam
too polluted with header clues about the fellow who collected it. In
particular I have to skip To and Received headers now, and I suspect they're
going to be very valuable in real life (for example, I don't even catch
"undisclosed recipients" in the To header now!).
> ...
> No, sorry. These were all of the following structure:
>
> multipart/mixed
> text/plain (brief text plus URL(s))
> text/html (long HTML copied from website)
Ah! That explains why the HTML tags didn't get stripped. I'd again offer
to add an optional argument to tokenize() so that they'd get stripped here
too, but if it gets glossed over a third time that would feel too much like
a loss <wink>.
>> This seems confused: Jeremy didn't use my trained classifier pickle,
>> he trained his own classifier from scratch on his own corpora.
>> ...
> I think it's still corpus size.
I reported on tests I ran with random samples of 220 spams and 220 hams from
my corpus (that means training on sets of those sizes as well as predicting
on sets of those sizes), and while that did harm the error rates, the error
rates I saw were still much better than Jeremy reported when using 500 of
each.
Ah, a full test run just finished, on the
tokenization scheme that folds case, and ignores punctuation, and strips
a
trailing 's' from words, and saves both word bigrams and word unigrams
This is the code:
# Tokenize everything in the body.
lastw = ''
for w in word_re.findall(text):
n = len(w)
# Make sure this range matches in tokenize_word().
if 3 <= n <= 12:
if w[-1] == 's':
w = w[:-1]
yield w
if lastw:
yield lastw + w
lastw = w + ' '
elif n >= 3:
lastw = ''
for t in tokenize_word(w):
yield t
where
word_re = re.compile(r"[\w$\-\x80-\xff]+")
This at least doubled the process size over what's done now. It helped the
f-n rate significantly, but probably hurt the f-p rate (the f-p rate is too
low with only 4000 hams per run to be confident about changes of such small
*absolute* magnitude -- 0.025% is a single message in the f-p table):
false positive percentages
0.000 0.000 tied
0.000 0.075 lost +(was 0)
0.050 0.125 lost +150.00%
0.025 0.000 won -100.00%
0.075 0.025 won -66.67%
0.000 0.050 lost +(was 0)
0.100 0.175 lost +75.00%
0.050 0.050 tied
0.025 0.050 lost +100.00%
0.025 0.000 won -100.00%
0.050 0.125 lost +150.00%
0.050 0.025 won -50.00%
0.050 0.050 tied
0.000 0.025 lost +(was 0)
0.000 0.025 lost +(was 0)
0.075 0.050 won -33.33%
0.025 0.050 lost +100.00%
0.000 0.000 tied
0.025 0.100 lost +300.00%
0.050 0.150 lost +200.00%
won 5 times
tied 4 times
lost 11 times
total unique fp went from 13 to 21
false negative percentages
0.327 0.218 won -33.33%
0.400 0.218 won -45.50%
0.327 0.218 won -33.33%
0.691 0.691 tied
0.545 0.327 won -40.00%
0.291 0.218 won -25.09%
0.218 0.291 lost +33.49%
0.654 0.473 won -27.68%
0.364 0.327 won -10.16%
0.291 0.182 won -37.46%
0.327 0.254 won -22.32%
0.691 0.509 won -26.34%
0.582 0.473 won -18.73%
0.291 0.255 won -12.37%
0.364 0.218 won -40.11%
0.436 0.327 won -25.00%
0.436 0.473 lost +8.49%
0.218 0.218 tied
0.291 0.255 won -12.37%
0.254 0.364 lost +43.31%
won 15 times
tied 2 times
lost 3 times
total unique fn went from 106 to 94
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Tim]
> ...
> I'd prefer to strip HTML tags from everything, but last time I
> tried that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my
> corpora (the full test results with and without HTML tag stripping
> is included in the "What about HTML?" comment block). But as the
> comment block also says,
>
> # XXX So, if another way is found to slash the f-n rate, the decision here
> # XXX not to strip HTML from HTML-only msgs should be revisited.
>
> and we've since done several things that gave significant f-n rate
> reductions. I should test that again now.
I did so. Alas, stripping HTML tags from all text still hurts the f-n rate
in my test data:
false positive percentages
0.000 0.000 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.050 0.075 lost +50.00%
0.025 0.025 tied
0.075 0.025 won -66.67%
0.000 0.000 tied
0.100 0.100 tied
0.050 0.075 lost +50.00%
0.025 0.025 tied
0.025 0.000 won -100.00%
0.050 0.075 lost +50.00%
0.050 0.050 tied
0.050 0.025 won -50.00%
0.000 0.000 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.075 0.075 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.050 0.050 tied
won 3 times
tied 14 times
lost 3 times
total unique fp went from 13 to 11
false negative percentages
0.327 0.400 lost +22.32%
0.400 0.400 tied
0.327 0.473 lost +44.65%
0.691 0.654 won -5.35%
0.545 0.473 won -13.21%
0.291 0.364 lost +25.09%
0.218 0.291 lost +33.49%
0.654 0.654 tied
0.364 0.473 lost +29.95%
0.291 0.327 lost +12.37%
0.327 0.291 won -11.01%
0.691 0.654 won -5.35%
0.582 0.655 lost +12.54%
0.291 0.400 lost +37.46%
0.364 0.436 lost +19.78%
0.436 0.582 lost +33.49%
0.436 0.364 won -16.51%
0.218 0.291 lost +33.49%
0.291 0.400 lost +37.46%
0.254 0.327 lost +28.74%
won 5 times
tied 2 times
lost 13 times
total unique fn went from 106 to 122
Last time I tried this (see tokenizer.py comments), the f-n rate after
stripping tags ranged from 0.982% to 1.781%, with a median of about 1.34%,
so we've made tons of progress on the f-n rate since then. But the mere
presence of HTML tags still remains a significant clue for c.l.py traffic,
so I'm left with the same comment:
> # XXX So, if another way is found to slash the f-n rate, the decision here
> # XXX not to strip HTML from HTML-only msgs should be revisited.
If we want to take the focus of this away from c.l.py traffic, I can't say
what effect HTML stripping would have (I don't have suitable test data to
measure that on).
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
>> Before we get too far down this road, what do people think of
>> creating a spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer?
>> This is just to minimize clutter in site-packages.
Guido> Too early IMO (if you mean to leave the various other tools out
Guido> of it).
Well, I mentioned classifier and tokenize only because I thought they were
the only importable modules. The rest represent script-level code, right?
Guido> If and when we package this, perhaps we should use Barry's trick
Guido> from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel
Guido> dir of the distribution (rather than requiring an extra directory
Guido> level just so the package can be a subdir of the distro).
That would be perfect. I tried in the naive way last night, but wound up
with all .py files in the package, which wasn't my intent.
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] testing results
These results are from timtest.py. I've got three sets of spam and ham
with about 500 messages in each set. Here's what happens when I enable
my latest "received" header code:
false positive percentages
0.187 0.187 tied
0.749 0.562 won -24.97%
0.780 0.585 won -25.00%
won 2 times
tied 1 times
lost 0 times
total unique fp went from 19 to 17
false negative percentages
2.072 1.318 won -36.39%
2.448 1.318 won -46.16%
0.574 0.765 lost +33.28%
won 2 times
tied 0 times
lost 1 times
total unique fn went from 43 to 28
Anthony's header counting code does not seem to help.
Neil
| 0 |
[Spambayes] testing results
[Neil Schemenauer]
> These results are from timtest.py. I've got three sets of spam and ham
> with about 500 messages in each set. Here's what happens when I enable
> my latest "received" header code:
If you've still got the summary files, please cvs up and try running cmp.py
again -- in the process of generalizing cmp.py, you managed to make it skip
half the lines <wink>. That is, if you've got N sets, you *should* get
N**2-N pairs for each error rate. You have 3 sets, so you should get 6
pairs of f-n rates and 6 pairs of f-p rates.
> false positive percentages
> 0.187 0.187 tied
> 0.749 0.562 won -24.97%
> 0.780 0.585 won -25.00%
>
> won 2 times
> tied 1 times
> lost 0 times
>
> total unique fp went from 19 to 17
>
> false negative percentages
> 2.072 1.318 won -36.39%
> 2.448 1.318 won -46.16%
> 0.574 0.765 lost +33.28%
>
> won 2 times
> tied 0 times
> lost 1 times
>
> total unique fn went from 43 to 28
Looks promising! Getting 6 lines of output for each block would give a
clearer picture, of course.
> Anthony's header counting code does not seem to help.
It helps my test data too much <wink/sigh>.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] testing results
Neil trained a classifier using 3 sets with about 500 ham and spam in each.
We're missing half his test run results due to a cmp.py bug (since fixed);
the "before custom fiddling" figures on the 3 reported runs were:
false positive percentages
0.187
0.749
0.780
total unique fp 19
false negative percentages
2.072
2.448
0.574
total unique fn 43
The "total unique" figures counts all 6 runs; it's just the individual-run
fp and fn percentages we're missing for 3 runs.
Jeremy reported these "before custom fiddling" figures on 4 sets with about
600 ham and spam in each:
false positive percentages
0.000
1.398
1.398
0.000
1.242
1.242
1.398
1.398
0.000
1.553
1.553
0.000
total unique fp 139
false negative percentages
10.413
6.104
5.027
8.259
2.873
5.745
5.206
4.488
9.336
5.206
5.027
9.874
total unique fn 970
So things are clearly working much better for Neil. Both reported
significant improvements in both f-n and f-p rates by folding in more header
lines. Neal added Received analysis to the base tokenizer's header
analysis, and Jeremy skipped the base tokenizer's header analysis completely
but added base-subject-line-like but case-folded tokenization for almost all
header lines (excepting only Received, Data, X-From_, and, I *suspect*, all
those starting with 'x-vm').
When I try 5 random pairs of 500-ham + 500-spam subsets in my test data, I
see:
false positive percentages
0.000
0.000
0.200
0.000
0.200
0.000
0.200
0.000
0.000
0.200
0.400
0.000
0.200
0.000
0.200
0.400
0.000
0.400
0.200
0.600
total unique fp 10
false negative percentages
0.800
0.400
0.200
0.600
1.000
0.000
0.600
1.200
1.200
0.800
0.400
0.800
1.800
0.800
0.400
1.000
1.000
0.400
0.000
0.600
total unique fn 36
This is much closer to what Neil saw, but still looks better. Another run
on a disjoint 5 random pairs looked much the same; total unique fp rose to
12 and fn fell to 27; on a third run with another set of disjoint 5 random
pairs, likewise, with fp 12 and fn 40. So I'm pretty confident that it's
not going to matter which random subsets of 500 I take from my data.
It's hard to conclude anything given Jeremy's much worse results. If they
were in line with Neil's results, I'd suspect that I've over-tuned the
algorithm to statistical quirks in my corpora.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Tim]
> One effect of getting rid of MINCOUNT is that it latches on more
> strongly to rare clues now, and those can be unique to the corpus
> trained on (e.g., one trained ham says "gryndlplyx!", and a followup
> new ham quotes it).
This may be a systematic bias in the testing procedure: in real life, msgs
come ordered in time. Say there's a thread that spans N messages on c.l.py.
In our testing setup, we'll train on a random sampling throughout its whole
lifetime, and test likewise. New ham "in the middle" of this thread gets
benefit from that we trained on msgs that appeared both before and *after*
it in real life. It's quite plausible that the f-p rate would rise without
this effect; in real life, at any given time some number of ham threads will
just be starting their lives, and if they're at all unusual the trained data
will know little to nothing about them.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Greg Ward]
> Case of headers is definitely helpful. SpamAssassin has a rule for it
> -- if you have headers like "DATE" or "SUBJECT", you get a few more
> points.
Across my data, all-caps DATE, SUBJECT, TO, etc indeed appear only in the
spam collections. OTOH, they don't appear often -- less than 1% of spam
messages have at least one of these all-cap header lines. But when I'm
fighting what are now sub-1% f-n rates, even rare clues can help!
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
[Neale Pickett]
> ...
> If you can spare the memory, you might get better performance in this
> case using the pickle store, since it only has to go to disk once (but
> boy, does it ever go to disk!) I can't think of anything obvious to
> speed things up once it's all loaded into memory, though.
On my box the current system scores about 50 msgs per second (starting in
memory, of course). While that can be a drag while waiting for one of my
full test runs to complete (one of those scores a message more than 120,000
times, and trains more than 30,000 times), I've got no urge to do any speed
optimizations -- if I were using this for my own email, I'd never notice the
drag. Guido will bitch like hell about waiting an extra second for his
50-msg batches to score, but he's the boss so he bitches about everything
<wink>.
> That's profiler territory, and profiling is exactly the kind of
> optimization I just said I wasn't going to do :)
I haven't profiled yet, but *suspect* there aren't any egregious hot spots.
5-gram'ing of long words with high-bit characters is likely overly expensive
*when* it happens, but it doesn't happen that often, and as an approach to
non-English languages it sucks anyway (i.e., there's no point speeding
something that ought to be replaced entirely).
| 0 |
[Spambayes] hammie.py vs. GBayes.py
[Guido]
> There seem to be two "drivers" for the classifier now: Neale Pickett's
> hammie.py, and the original GBayes.py. According to the README.txt,
> GBayes.py hasn't been kept up to date.
It seemed that way to me when I ripped the classifier out of it -- I don't
think anyone has touched it after.
> Is there anything in there that isn't covered by hammie.py?
Someone else will have to answer that (I don't use GBayes or hammie, at
least not yet).
> About the only useful feature of GBayes.py that hammie.py doesn't (yet)
> copy is -u, which calculates spamness for an entire mailbox. This
> feature can easily be copied into hammie.py.
That's been done now, right?
> (GBayes.py also has a large collection of tokenizers; but timtoken.py
> rules, so I'm not sure how interesting that is now.)
Those tokenizers are truly trivial to rewrite from scratch if they're
interesting. The tiny spam/ham collections in GBayes are also worthless
now. The "self test" feature didn't do anything except print its results;
Tester.py since became doctest'ed and verifies that some basic machinery
actually delivers what it's supposed to deliver.
> Therefore I propose to nuke GBayes.py, after adding a -u feature.
+1 here.
> Anyone against?
| 0 |
[Spambayes] All Cap or Cap Word Subjects
Just curious if subject line capitalization can be used as an indicator.
Either the percentage of characters that are caps..
Or, percentage starting with a capital letter (if number of words > xx)
Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000
http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax
AOL-IM: BKClements
| 0 |
[Spambayes] All Cap or Cap Word Subjects
[Brad Clements]
> Just curious if subject line capitalization can be used as an indicator.
>
> Either the percentage of characters that are caps..
>
> Or, percentage starting with a capital letter (if number of words > xx)
Supply a mod to tokenizer.py and I'll test it (eventually <wink>). Note
that the tokenizer already *preserves* case in subject-line words, because
experiment showed that this was better than folding case away in this
specific context (but experiment also showed-- against my
expectations --that preserving case everywhere didn't make a significant
difference to either error rate -- the subject line is a special case for
this).
| 0 |
[Spambayes] testing results
Tim Peters wrote:
> If you've still got the summary files, please cvs up and try running cmp.py
> again -- in the process of generalizing cmp.py, you managed to make it skip
> half the lines <wink>.
Woops. I didn't have the summary files so I regenerated them using a
slightly different set of data. Here are the results of enabling the
"received" header processing:
false positive percentages
0.707 0.530 won -25.04%
0.873 0.524 won -39.98%
0.301 0.301 tied
1.047 1.047 tied
0.602 0.452 won -24.92%
0.353 0.177 won -49.86%
won 4 times
tied 2 times
lost 0 times
total unique fp went from 17 to 14 won -17.65%
false negative percentages
2.167 1.238 won -42.87%
0.969 0.969 tied
1.887 1.372 won -27.29%
1.616 1.292 won -20.05%
1.029 0.858 won -16.62%
1.548 1.548 tied
won 4 times
tied 2 times
lost 0 times
total unique fn went from 50 to 38 won -24.00%
My test set is different than Tim's in that all the email was received
by the same account. Also, my set contains email sent to me, not to
mailing lists (I use a different addresses for mailing lists). If
people cook up more ideas I will be happy to test them.
Neil
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
[Tim]
> ...
> On my box the current system scores about 50 msgs per second (starting
> in memory, of course).
That was a guess. Bothering to get a clock out, it was more like 80 per
second. See? A 60% speedup without changing a thing <wink>.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] testing results
[Neil Schemenauer]
> Woops. I didn't have the summary files so I regenerated them using a
> slightly different set of data. Here are the results of enabling the
> "received" header processing:
>
> false positive percentages
> 0.707 0.530 won -25.04%
> 0.873 0.524 won -39.98%
> 0.301 0.301 tied
> 1.047 1.047 tied
> 0.602 0.452 won -24.92%
> 0.353 0.177 won -49.86%
>
> won 4 times
> tied 2 times
> lost 0 times
>
> total unique fp went from 17 to 14 won -17.65%
>
> false negative percentages
> 2.167 1.238 won -42.87%
> 0.969 0.969 tied
> 1.887 1.372 won -27.29%
> 1.616 1.292 won -20.05%
> 1.029 0.858 won -16.62%
> 1.548 1.548 tied
>
> won 4 times
> tied 2 times
> lost 0 times
>
> total unique fn went from 50 to 38 won -24.00%
>
> My test set is different than Tim's in that all the email was received
> by the same account. Also, my set contains email sent to me, not to
> mailing lists (I use a different addresses for mailing lists).
Enabling the Received headers works even better for me <wink>; here's the
f-n section from a quick run on 500-element subsets:
0.600 0.200 won -66.67%
0.200 0.200 tied
0.200 0.000 won -100.00%
0.800 0.400 won -50.00%
0.400 0.200 won -50.00%
0.400 0.000 won -100.00%
0.200 0.000 won -100.00%
1.000 0.400 won -60.00%
0.800 0.200 won -75.00%
1.200 0.600 won -50.00%
0.400 0.200 won -50.00%
2.000 0.800 won -60.00%
0.400 0.400 tied
1.200 0.600 won -50.00%
0.400 0.000 won -100.00%
2.000 1.000 won -50.00%
0.400 0.000 won -100.00%
0.800 0.000 won -100.00%
0.000 0.200 lost +(was 0)
0.400 0.000 won -100.00%
won 17 times
tied 2 times
lost 1 times
total unique fn went from 38 to 15 won -60.53%
A huge improvement, but for wrong reasons ... except not entirely! The most
powerful discriminator in the whole database on one training set became:
'received:unknown' 881 0.99
That's got nothing to do with BruceG, right?
'received:bfsmedia.com'
was also a strong spam indicator across all training sets. I'm jealous.
> If people cook up more ideas I will be happy to test them.
Neil, are using your own tokenizer now, or the tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize
generator? Whichever, someone who's not afraid of their headers should try
adding mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize_headers into the mix, once in lieu of
tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers(), and again in addition to it. Jeremy
reported on just the former.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
On 07 September 2002, Guido van Rossum said:
> If and when we package this, perhaps we should use Barry's trick
> from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel dir
> of the distribution (rather than requiring an extra directory level
> just so the package can be a subdir of the distro).
It's not a *trick*! It just requires this
package_dir = {'spambayes': '.'}
in the setup script.
harrumph! "trick" indeed...
Greg
--
Greg Ward <gward@python.net> http://www.gerg.ca/
A committee is a life form with six or more legs and no brain.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
> I'd prefer to strip HTML tags from everything, but last time I tried
> that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora
Your corpora are biased in this respect though -- newsgroups have a
strong social taboo on posting HTML, but in many people's personal
inboxes it is quite abundant.
Getting a good ham corpus may prove to be a bigger hurdle than I
though! My own saved mail doesn't reflect what I receive, since I
save and throw away selectively (much more so than in the past :-).
> > multipart/mixed
> > text/plain (brief text plus URL(s))
> > text/html (long HTML copied from website)
>
> Ah! That explains why the HTML tags didn't get stripped. I'd again
> offer to add an optional argument to tokenize() so that they'd get
> stripped here too, but if it gets glossed over a third time that
> would feel too much like a loss <wink>.
I'll bite. Sounds like a good idea to strip the HTML in this case;
I'd like to see how this improves the f-p rate on this corpus.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
| 0 |
[Spambayes] test sets?
[Tim]
>> I'd prefer to strip HTML tags from everything, but last time I tried
>> that it still had bad effects on the error rates in my corpora
[Guido]
> Your corpora are biased in this respect though -- newsgroups have a
> strong social taboo on posting HTML, but in many people's personal
> inboxes it is quite abundant.
We're in violent agreement there: the comments in tokenizer.py say that as
strongly as possible, and I've repeated it endlessly here too. But so long
as I was the only one doing serious testing, it was a dubious idea to make
the code maximally clumsy for me to use on the c.l.py task <wink>.
> Getting a good ham corpus may prove to be a bigger hurdle than I
> though! My own saved mail doesn't reflect what I receive, since I
> save and throw away selectively (much more so than in the past :-).
Yup, the system picks up on *everything* in the tokens. Graham's proposed
"delete as ham" and "delete as spam" keys would probably work very well for
motivated geeks. But Paul Svensson has pointed out here that they probably
wouldn't work nearly so well for real people.
>> Ah! That explains why the HTML tags didn't get stripped. I'd again
>> offer to add an optional argument to tokenize() so that they'd get
>> stripped here too, but if it gets glossed over a third time that
>> would feel too much like a loss <wink>.
> I'll bite. Sounds like a good idea to strip the HTML in this case;
> I'd like to see how this improves the f-p rate on this corpus.
I'll soon check in this change:
def tokenize_body(self, msg, retain_pure_html_tags=False):
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"""Generate a stream of tokens from an email Message.
If a multipart/alternative section has both text/plain and text/html
sections, the text/html section is ignored. This may not be a good
idea (e.g., the sections may have different content).
HTML tags are always stripped from text/plain sections.
By default, HTML tags are also stripped from text/html sections.
However, doing so hurts the false negative rate on Tim's
comp.lang.python tests (where HTML-only messages are almost never
legitimate traffic). If optional argument retain_pure_html_tags
is specified and True, HTML tags are retained in text/html sections.
"""
You should do a cvs up and establish a new baseline first, as I checked in a
pure-win change in the wee hours that cut the fp and fn rates in my tests.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
>> If and when we package this, perhaps we should use Barry's trick ...
Greg> It's not a *trick*! It just requires this
Greg> package_dir = {'spambayes': '.'}
Greg> in the setup script.
That has the nasty side effect of placing all .py files in the package.
What about obvious executable scripts (like timtest or hammie)? How can I
keep them out of the package?
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
> That has the nasty side effect of placing all .py files in the
> package. What about obvious executable scripts (like timtest or
> hammie)? How can I keep them out of the package?
Why would we care about installing a few extra files, as long as
they're inside a package?
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
[Skip Montanaro]
> That has the nasty side effect of placing all .py files in the package.
> What about obvious executable scripts (like timtest or hammie)? How can I
> keep them out of the package?
Put them in a scripts folder?
// m
-
| 0 |
[Spambayes] deleting "duplicate" spam before training? good idea or
Because I get mail through several different email addresses, I frequently
get duplicates (or triplicates or more-plicates) of various spam messages.
In saving spam for later analysis I haven't always been careful to avoid
saving such duplicates.
I wrote a script some time ago to try an minimize the duplicates I see by
calculating a loose checksum, but I still have some duplicates. Should I
delete the duplicates before training or not? Would people be interested in
the script? I'd be happy to extricate it from my local modules and check it
into CVS.
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
>>>>> "TP" == Tim Peters <tim.one@comcast.net> writes:
>> First test results using tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers()
>> unmodified. ... Second test results using
>> mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize_headers(). This uses all headers
>> except Received, Data, and X-From_. ...
TP> Try the latter again, but call the base tokenize_headers() too.
Sorry. I haven't found the time to try any more test runs. Perhaps
later today.
Jeremy
| 0 |
[Spambayes] deleting "duplicate" spam before training? good idea
[Skip Montanaro]
> Because I get mail through several different email addresses, I
> frequently get duplicates (or triplicates or more-plicates) of
> various spam messages. In saving spam for later analysis I haven't
> always been careful to avoid saving such duplicates.
>
> I wrote a script some time ago to try an minimize the duplicates I see
> by calculating a loose checksum, but I still have some duplicates.
> Should I delete the duplicates before training or not?
People just can't stop thinking <wink>. The classifier should work best
when trained on a wholly random spattering of real life. If real life
contains duplicates, then that's what the classifier should see.
> Would people be interested in the script? I'd be happy to extricate
> it from my local modules and check it into CVS.
Sure! I think it's relevant, but maybe for another purpose. Paul Svensson
is thinking harder about real people <wink> than the rest of us, and he may
be able to get use out of approaches that identify closely related spam.
For example, some amount of spam is going to end up in the ham training data
in real life use, and any sort of similarity score to a piece of known spam
may be an aid in finding and purging it.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] spambayes package?
Guido> Why would we care about installing a few extra files, as long as
Guido> they're inside a package?
I guess you needn't worry about that. It just doesn't seem "clean" to me.
S
| 0 |
[Spambayes] deleting "duplicate" spam before training? good idea
>> I wrote a script some time ago to try an minimize the duplicates I
>> see by calculating a loose checksum, but I still have some
>> duplicates. Should I delete the duplicates before training or not?
Tim> People just can't stop thinking <wink>. The classifier should work
Tim> best when trained on a wholly random spattering of real life. If
Tim> real life contains duplicates, then that's what the classifier
Tim> should see.
A bit more detail. I get destined for many addresses: skip@pobox.com,
skip@calendar.com, concerts@musi-cal.com, webmaster@mojam.com, etc. I
originally wrote (a slightly different version of) the loosecksum.py script
I'm about to check in to avoid manually scanning all those presumed spams
which are really identical. Once a message was identified as spam, what I
refer to as a loose checksum was computed to try and avoid saving the same
spam multiple times for later review.
>> Would people be interested in the script? I'd be happy to extricate
>> it from my local modules and check it into CVS.
Tim> Sure! I think it's relevant, but maybe for another purpose. Paul
Tim> Svensson is thinking harder about real people <wink> than the rest
Tim> of us, and he may be able to get use out of approaches that
Tim> identify closely related spam. For example, some amount of spam is
Tim> going to end up in the ham training data in real life use, and any
Tim> sort of similarity score to a piece of known spam may be an aid in
Tim> finding and purging it.
I'll check it in. Let me know if you find it useful.
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] deleting "duplicate" spam before training? good idea
On 09 September 2002, Tim Peters said:
> > Would people be interested in the script? I'd be happy to extricate
> > it from my local modules and check it into CVS.
>
> Sure! I think it's relevant, but maybe for another purpose. Paul Svensson
> is thinking harder about real people <wink> than the rest of us, and he may
> be able to get use out of approaches that identify closely related spam.
> For example, some amount of spam is going to end up in the ham training data
> in real life use, and any sort of similarity score to a piece of known spam
> may be an aid in finding and purging it.
OTOH, look into DCC (Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse,
http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/), which uses fuzzy checksums.
It's quite likely that DCC's checksumming scheme is better than
something any of us would throw together for personal use (no offense,
Skip!). But I have no personal experience of it.
Greg
--
Greg Ward <gward@python.net> http://www.gerg.ca/
If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science--it is opinion.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] deleting "duplicate" spam before training? good idea
Greg> OTOH, look into DCC (Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse,
Greg> http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/), which uses fuzzy
Greg> checksums. It's quite likely that DCC's checksumming scheme is
Greg> better than something any of us would throw together for personal
Greg> use (no offense, Skip!).
None taken. I wrote my little script before I was aware DCC existed. Even
now, it seems like overkill for my use.
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] python.org email harvesting ready to roll
[followups to spambayes@python.org please, unless you're specifically
concerned about some particular bit of email policy for python.org]
OK, after much fiddling with and tweaking of /etc/exim/exim4.conf and
/etc/exim/local_scan.py on mail.python.org, I am fairly confident that
I can start harvesting all incoming email at a moment's notice. For the
record, here's how it all works:
* exim4.conf works almost exactly the same as before if the file
/etc/exim/harvest does not exist. That is, any "junk mail
condition" that can be detected by Exim ACLs (access control lists)
is handled entirely in exim4.conf: the message is rejected before it
ever gets to local_scan.py. This covers such diverse cases as
"message from known spammer" (reject after every RCPT TO command),
"no message-id header", and "8-bit chars in subject" (both rejected
after the message headers/body are read).
The main things I have changed in the absence of /etc/exim/harvest
are:
- don't check for 8-bit chars in "From" header -- the vast
majority of hits for this test were bounces from some
Asian ISP; the remaining hits should be handled by SpamAssassin
- do header sender verification (ie. ensure that there's a
verifiable email address in at least one of "From", "Reply-to",
and "Sender") as late as possible, because it requires DNS
lookups which can be slow (and can also make messages that
should have been rejected merely be deferred, if those DNS
lookups timeout)
* if /etc/exim/harvest exists, then the behaviour of all of those
ACLs in exim4.conf suddenly changes: instead of rejecting recipients
or messages, they add an X-reject header to the message. This
header is purely for internal use; it records the name of the folder
to which the rejected message should be saved, and also gives the
SMTP error message which should ultimately be used to reject
the message.
Thus, those messages will now be seen by local_scan.py, which now
looks for the X-reject header. If found, it uses the folder name
specified there to save the message, and then rejects it with the
SMTP error message also given in X-reject. (Currently X-reject is
retained in saved messages.)
If a message was not tagged with X-reject, then local_scan.py
runs the usual virus and spam checks. (Namely, my homebrew
scan for attachments with filenames that look like Windows
executables, and a run through SpamAssassin.) The logic is
basically this:
if virus:
folder = "virus"
else:
run through SpamAssassin
if score >= 10.0:
folder = "rejected-spam"
elif score >= 5.0:
folder = "caught-spam"
Finally, local_scan.py writes the message to the designated folder.
By far the biggest folder will be "accepted" -- the server handles
2000-5000 incoming messages per day, of which maybe 100-500 are junk
mail. (Oops, just realized I haven't written the code that actually
saves the message -- d'ohh! Also haven't written anything to
discriminate personal email, which I must do. Sigh.)
* finally, the big catch: waiting until after you've read the message
headers and body to actually reject the message is problematic,
because certain broken MTAs (including those used by some spammers)
don't consider a 5xx after DATA as a permanent error, but keep
retrying. D'ohh. This is a minor annoyance currently, where a fair
amount of stuff is rejected at RCPT TO time. But in harvest mode,
*everything* (with the exception of people probing for open relays)
will be rejected at DATA time. So I have cooked up something called
the ASBL, or automated sender blacklist. This is just a Berkeley DB
file that maps (sender_ip, sender_address) to an expiry time. When
local_scan() rejects a message from (sender_ip, sender_address) --
for whatever reason, including finding an X-reject header added by
an ACL in exim4.conf -- it adds a record to the ASBL, with an expiry
time 3 hours in the future. Meanwhile, there's an ACL in exim4.conf
that checks for records in the ASBL; if there's a record for the
current (sender_ip, sender_address) that hasn't expired yet, we
reject all recipients without ever looking at the message headers or
body.
The downside of this from the point-of-view of corpus collection is
that if some jerk is busily spamming *@python.org, one SMTP
connection per address, we will most likely only get one copy. This
is a win if you're just thinking about reducing server load and
bandwidth, but I'm not sure if it's helpful for training spam
detectors. Tim?
Happy harvesting --
Greg
--
Greg Ward <gward@python.net> http://www.gerg.ca/
Budget's in the red? Let's tax religion!
-- Dead Kennedys
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
We've not only reduced the f-p and f-n rates in my test runs, we've also
made the score distributions substantially sharper. This is bad news for
Greg, because the non-existent "middle ground" is becoming even less
existent <wink>:
Ham distribution for all runs:
* = 1333 items
0.00 79975 ************************************************************
2.50 1 *
5.00 0
7.50 0
10.00 2 *
12.50 1 *
15.00 0
17.50 0
20.00 0
22.50 1 *
25.00 0
27.50 0
30.00 0
32.50 0
35.00 0
37.50 1 *
40.00 0
42.50 0
45.00 0
47.50 0
50.00 0
52.50 0
55.00 0
57.50 0
60.00 1 *
62.50 0
65.00 1 *
67.50 0
70.00 0
72.50 0
75.00 0
77.50 0
80.00 0
82.50 0
85.00 0
87.50 0
90.00 0
92.50 0
95.00 0
97.50 17 *
Spam distribution for all runs:
* = 914 items
0.00 118 *
2.50 7 *
5.00 0
7.50 2 *
10.00 1 *
12.50 1 *
15.00 3 *
17.50 1 *
20.00 1 *
22.50 1 *
25.00 0
27.50 0
30.00 4 *
32.50 3 *
35.00 4 *
37.50 2 *
40.00 0
42.50 1 *
45.00 1 *
47.50 0
50.00 2 *
52.50 3 *
55.00 1 *
57.50 2 *
60.00 0
62.50 1 *
65.00 1 *
67.50 10 *
70.00 2 *
72.50 1 *
75.00 2 *
77.50 1 *
80.00 0
82.50 0
85.00 1 *
87.50 4 *
90.00 2 *
92.50 5 *
95.00 14 *
97.50 54806 ************************************************************
As usual for me, this is an aggregate of 20 runs, each both training and
predicting on 4000 c.l.py ham + ~2750 BruceG spam.
Only 25 ham scores out of 80,000 are above 0.025 now (and, yes, the
"Nigerian scam"-quoting msg is still counted as ham -- I haven't taken
anything out of the ham corpus since remving the "If AOL were a car" spam),
the f-p rate wouldn't have changed at all if the spamprob cutoff were
dropped from 0.90 to 0.675, dropping the cutoff to 0.40 would have added
only 2 false positives, and dropping it to 0.15 would have added only
another 2 more!
It's spooky.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
>>> Tim Peters wrote
> We've not only reduced the f-p and f-n rates in my test runs, we've also
> made the score distributions substantially sharper. This is bad news for
> Greg, because the non-existent "middle ground" is becoming even less
> existent <wink>:
Well, I've finally got around to pulling down the SF code. Starting
with it, and absolutely zero local modifications, I see the following:
Ham distribution for all runs:
* = 589 items
0.00 35292 ************************************************************
2.50 36 *
5.00 21 *
7.50 12 *
10.00 6 *
12.50 9 *
15.00 6 *
17.50 3 *
20.00 8 *
22.50 5 *
25.00 3 *
27.50 18 *
30.00 9 *
32.50 1 *
35.00 4 *
37.50 3 *
40.00 0
42.50 3 *
45.00 3 *
47.50 4 *
50.00 9 *
52.50 5 *
55.00 5 *
57.50 3 *
60.00 4 *
62.50 2 *
65.00 2 *
67.50 6 *
70.00 1 *
72.50 3 *
75.00 2 *
77.50 4 *
80.00 3 *
82.50 3 *
85.00 6 *
87.50 8 *
90.00 4 *
92.50 8 *
95.00 15 *
97.50 441 *
Spam distribution for all runs:
* = 504 items
0.00 393 *
2.50 17 *
5.00 18 *
7.50 12 *
10.00 4 *
12.50 6 *
15.00 11 *
17.50 10 *
20.00 10 *
22.50 5 *
25.00 3 *
27.50 19 *
30.00 8 *
32.50 2 *
35.00 0
37.50 1 *
40.00 5 *
42.50 5 *
45.00 7 *
47.50 2 *
50.00 5 *
52.50 1 *
55.00 9 *
57.50 11 *
60.00 6 *
62.50 4 *
65.00 3 *
67.50 5 *
70.00 7 *
72.50 9 *
75.00 2 *
77.50 13 *
80.00 3 *
82.50 7 *
85.00 15 *
87.50 16 *
90.00 11 *
92.50 16 *
95.00 45 *
97.50 30226 ************************************************************
My next (current) task is to complete the corpus I've got - it's currently
got ~ 9000 ham, 7800 spam, and about 9200 currently unsorted. I'm tossing
up using either hammie or spamassassin to do the initial sort - previously
I've used various forms of 'grep' for keywords and a little gui thing to
pop a message up and let me say 'spam/ham', but that's just getting too, too
tedious.
I can't make it available en masse, but I will look at finding some of
the more 'interesting' uglies. One thing I've seen (consider this
'anecdotal' for now) is that the 'skip' tokens end up in a _lot_ of the
f-ps.
Anthony
| 0 |
[Spambayes] timtest broke?
After my latest cvs up, timtest fails with
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/skip/src/spambayes/timtest.py", line 294, in ?
drive(nsets)
File "/home/skip/src/spambayes/timtest.py", line 264, in drive
d = Driver()
File "/home/skip/src/spambayes/timtest.py", line 152, in __init__
self.global_ham_hist = Hist(options.nbuckets)
AttributeError: 'OptionsClass' object has no attribute 'nbuckets'
I'm running it as
timtest -n5 > Data/timtest.out
from my ~/Mail directory (not from my ~/src/spambayes directory). If I
create a symlink to ~/src/spambayes/bayes.ini it works once again, but
shouldn't there be an nbuckets attribute with a default value already?
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] timtest broke?
[Skip Montanaro]
> After my latest cvs up, timtest fails with
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "/home/skip/src/spambayes/timtest.py", line 294, in ?
> drive(nsets)
> File "/home/skip/src/spambayes/timtest.py", line 264, in drive
> d = Driver()
> File "/home/skip/src/spambayes/timtest.py", line 152, in __init__
> self.global_ham_hist = Hist(options.nbuckets)
> AttributeError: 'OptionsClass' object has no attribute 'nbuckets'
>
> I'm running it as
>
> timtest -n5 > Data/timtest.out
>
> from my ~/Mail directory (not from my ~/src/spambayes directory). If I
> create a symlink to ~/src/spambayes/bayes.ini it works once again, but
> shouldn't there be an nbuckets attribute with a default value already?
I never used ConfigParser before, but I read that its read() method silently
ignores files that don't exist. If 'bayes.ini' isn't found, *none* of the
options will be defined. Since you want to run this from a directory other
than my spambayes directory, it's up to you to check in changes to make that
possible <wink>.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] timtest broke?
[Tim]
> I never used ConfigParser before, but I read that its read()
> method silently ignores files that don't exist. If 'bayes.ini'
> isn't found, *none* of the options will be defined. ...
Note that I since got rid of bayes.ini (it's embedded in Options.py
now), so search-path issues won't burn you here anymore. The intended
way to customize the tokenizer and testers is via creating your own
bayescustomize.ini. You'll get burned by search-path issues wrt that
instead now <0.7 wink>.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
[Anthony Baxter]
> Well, I've finally got around to pulling down the SF code. Starting
> with it, and absolutely zero local modifications, I see the following:
How many runs is this summarizing? For each, how many ham&spam were in the
training set? How many in the prediction sets? What were the error rates
(run rates.py over your output file)?
The effect of set sizes on accuracy rates isn't known. I've informally
reported some results from just a few controlled experiments on that.
Jeremy reported improved accuracy by doubling the training set size, but
that wasn't a controlled experiment (things besides just training set size
changed between "before" and "after").
> Ham distribution for all runs:
> * = 589 items
> 0.00 35292 ************************************************************
> 2.50 36 *
> 5.00 21 *
> 7.50 12 *
> 10.00 6 *
> ...
> 90.00 4 *
> 92.50 8 *
> 95.00 15 *
> 97.50 441 *
>
> Spam distribution for all runs:
> * = 504 items
> 0.00 393 *
> 2.50 17 *
> 5.00 18 *
> 7.50 12 *
> 10.00 4 *
> ...
> 90.00 11 *
> 92.50 16 *
> 95.00 45 *
> 97.50 30226 ************************************************************
>
>
> My next (current) task is to complete the corpus I've got - it's currently
> got ~ 9000 ham, 7800 spam, and about 9200 currently unsorted. I'm tossing
> up using either hammie or spamassassin to do the initial sort -
previously
> I've used various forms of 'grep' for keywords and a little gui thing to
> pop a message up and let me say 'spam/ham', but that's just getting too,
too
> tedious.
Yup, tagging data is mondo tedious, and mistakes hurt.
I expect hammie will do a much better job on this already than hand
grepping. Be sure to stare at the false positives and get the spam out of
there.
> I can't make it available en masse, but I will look at finding some of
> the more 'interesting' uglies. One thing I've seen (consider this
> 'anecdotal' for now) is that the 'skip' tokens end up in a _lot_ of the
> f-ps.
With probabilities favoring ham or spam? A skip token is produced in lieu
of "word" more than 12 chars long and without any high-bit characters. It's
possible that they helped me because raw HTML produces lots of these.
However, if you're running current CVS, Tokenizer/retain_pure_html_tags
defaults to False now, so HTML decorations should vanish before body
tokenization.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] XTreme Training
[Tim]
> ...
> At the other extreme, training on half my ham&spam, and scoring aginst
> the other half
> ...
> false positive rate: 0.0100%
> false negative rate: 0.3636%
> ...
> Alas, all 4 of the 0.99 clues there are HTML-related.
That begged to try it again but with Tokenize/retain_pure_html_tags false.
The random halves getting trained on and scored against are different here,
and I repaired the bug that dropped 1 ham and 1 spam on the floor, so this
isn't exactly a 1-change difference between runs.
Ham distribution for all runs:
* = 167 items
0.00 9999 ************************************************************
10.00 0
20.00 0
30.00 0
40.00 0
50.00 0
60.00 0
70.00 0
80.00 0
90.00 1 *
Spam distribution for all runs:
* = 115 items
0.00 21 *
10.00 0
20.00 0
30.00 1 *
40.00 0
50.00 0
60.00 1 *
70.00 0
80.00 1 *
90.00 6852 ************************************************************
false positive rate: 0.0100%
false negative rate: 0.3490%
Yay! That may mean that HTML tags aren't really needed in my test data
provided it's trained on enough stuff. Curiously, the sole false positive
here is the same as the sole false positive on the half&half run reported in
the preceding msg (I assume the Nigerian scam "false positive" just happened
to end up in the training data both times):
************************************************************************
Data/Ham/Set4/107687.txt
prob = 0.999632042904
prob('python.') = 0.01
prob('alteration') = 0.01
prob('edinburgh') = 0.01
prob('subject:Python') = 0.01
prob('header:Errors-To:1') = 0.0216278
prob('thanks,') = 0.0319955
prob('help?') = 0.041806
prob('road,') = 0.0462364
prob('there,') = 0.0722794
prob('us.') = 0.906609
prob('our') = 0.919118
prob('company,') = 0.921852
prob('visit') = 0.930785
prob('sent.') = 0.939882
prob('e-mail') = 0.949765
prob('courses') = 0.954726
prob('received') = 0.955209
prob('analyst') = 0.960756
prob('investment') = 0.975139
prob('regulated') = 0.99
prob('e-mails') = 0.99
prob('mills') = 0.99
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The top 30 discriminators are more interesting now:
'income' 629 0.99
'http0:python' 643 0.01
'header:MiME-Version:1' 672 0.99
'http1:remove' 693 0.99
'content-type:text/html' 711 0.982345
'string' 714 0.01
'http>1:jpg' 776 0.99
'object' 813 0.01
'python,' 852 0.01
'python.' 882 0.01
'language' 883 0.01
'>>>' 907 0.01
'header:Return-Path:2' 907 0.99
'unsubscribe' 975 0.99
'header:Received:7' 1113 0.99
'def' 1142 0.01
'http>1:gif' 1168 0.99
'module' 1169 0.01
'import' 1332 0.01
'header:Received:8' 1342 0.99
'header:Errors-To:1' 1377 0.0216278
'header:In-Reply-To:1' 1402 0.01
'wrote' 1753 0.01
' ' 2067 0.99
'subject:Python' 2140 0.01
'header:User-Agent:1' 2322 0.01
'header:X-Complaints-To:1' 4351 0.01
'wrote:' 4370 0.01
'python' 4972 0.01
'header:Organization:1' 6921 0.01
There are still two HTML clues remaining there (" " and
"content-type:text/html"). Anthony's trick accounts for almost a third of
these. "Python" appears in 5 of them ('http0:python' means that 'python'
was found in the 1st field of an embedded http:// URL). Sticking a .gif or
a .jpg in a URL both score as 0.99 spam clues. Note the damning pattern of
capitalization in 'header:MiME-Version:1'! This counting is case-sensitive,
and nobody ever would have guessed that MiME is more damning than SUBJECT or
DATE. Why would spam be likely to end up with two instances of Return-Path
in the headers?
| 0 |
[Spambayes] stack.pop() ate my multipart message
I've been running hammie on all my incoming messages, and I noticed that
multipart/alternative messages are totally hosed: they have no content,
just the MIME boundaries. For instance, the following message:
------------------------------8<------------------------------
From: somebody <someone@somewhere.org>
To: neale@woozle.org
Subject: Booga
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="snot"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--snot
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi there.
--snot
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<pre>Hi there.</pre>
--snot--
------------------------------8<------------------------------
Comes out like this:
------------------------------8<------------------------------
From: somebody <someone@somewhere.org>
To: neale@woozle.org
Subject: Booga
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="snot"
X-Hammie-Disposition: No; 0.74; [unrelated gar removed]
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--snot
--snot--
------------------------------8<------------------------------
I'm using "Python 2.3a0 (#1, Sep 9 2002, 22:56:24)".
I've fixed it with the following patch to Tim's tokenizer, but I have to
admit that I'm baffled as to why it works. Maybe there's some subtle
interaction between generators and lists that I can't understand. Or
something. Being as I'm baffled, I don't imagine any theory I come up
with will be anywhere close to reality.
In any case, be advised that (at least for me) hammie will eat
multipart/alternative messages until this patch is applied. The patch
seems rather bogus though, so I'm not checking it in, in the hope that
there's a better fix I just wasn't capable of discovering :)
------------------------------8<------------------------------
Index: tokenizer.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spambayes/spambayes/tokenizer.py,v
retrieving revision 1.15
diff -u -r1.15 tokenizer.py
--- tokenizer.py 10 Sep 2002 18:15:49 -0000 1.15
+++ tokenizer.py 11 Sep 2002 05:01:16 -0000
@@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
+#! /usr/bin/env python
"""Module to tokenize email messages for spam filtering."""
import email
@@ -507,7 +508,8 @@
htmlpart = textpart = None
stack = part.get_payload()
while stack:
- subpart = stack.pop()
+ subpart = stack[0]
+ stack = stack[1:]
ctype = subpart.get_content_type()
if ctype == 'text/plain':
textpart = subpart
------------------------------8<------------------------------
| 0 |
[Spambayes] stack.pop() ate my multipart message
So then, Neale Pickett <neale@woozle.org> is all like:
> Maybe there's some subtle interaction between generators and lists
> that I can't understand. Or something. Being as I'm baffled, I don't
> imagine any theory I come up with will be anywhere close to reality.
And then, just as I was about to fall asleep, I figured it out. The
tokenizer now has an extra [:], and all is well. I feel like a real
chawbacon for not realizing this earlier. :*)
Blaming it on staying up past bedtime,
Neale
| 0 |
[Spambayes] XTreme Training
On 10 September 2002, Tim Peters said:
> Why would spam be likely to end up with two instances of Return-Path
> in the headers?
Possibly another qmail-ism from Bruce Guenter's spam collection. Or
maybe Anthony's right about spammers being stupid and blindly copying
headers. (Well, of course he's right about spammers being stupid; it's
just this particular aspect of stupidity that's open to question.)
Greg
--
Greg Ward <gward@python.net> http://www.gerg.ca/
Think honk if you're a telepath.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
[Anthony Baxter]
> 5 sets, each of 1800ham/1550spam, just ran the once (it matched all 5 to
> each other...)
>
> rates.py sez:
>
> Training on Data/Ham/Set1 & Data/Spam/Set1 ... 1798 hams & 1548 spams
> 0.445 0.388
> 0.445 0.323
> 2.108 4.072
> 0.556 1.097
> Training on Data/Ham/Set2 & Data/Spam/Set2 ... 1798 hams & 1546 spams
> 2.113 0.517
> 1.335 0.194
> 3.106 5.365
> 2.113 2.903
> Training on Data/Ham/Set3 & Data/Spam/Set3 ... 1798 hams & 1547 spams
> 2.447 0.646
> 0.945 0.388
> 2.884 3.426
> 2.058 1.097
> Training on Data/Ham/Set4 & Data/Spam/Set4 ... 1803 hams & 1547 spams
> 1.057 2.584
> 0.723 1.682
> 0.890 1.164
> 0.445 0.452
> Training on Data/Ham/Set5 & Data/Spam/Set5 ... 1798 hams & 1550 spams
> 0.779 4.328
> 0.501 3.299
> 0.667 3.361
> 0.388 4.977
> total false pos 273 3.03501945525
> total false neg 367 4.74282760403
How were these msgs broken up into the 5 sets? Set4 in particular is giving
the other sets severe problems, and Set5 blows the f-n rate on everything
it's predicting -- when the rates across runs within a training set vary by
as much as a factor of 25, it suggests there was systematic bias in the way
the sets were chosen. For example, perhaps they were broken into sets by
arrival time. If that's what you did, you should go back and break them
into sets randomly instead. If you did partition them randomly, the wild
variance across runs is mondo mysterious.
>> I expect hammie will do a much better job on this already than hand
>> grepping. Be sure to stare at the false positives and get the
>> spam out of there.
> Yah, but there's a chicken-and-egg problem there - I want stuff that's
> _known_ to be right to test this stuff,
Then you have to look at every message by eyeball -- any scheme has non-zero
error rates of both kinds.
> so using the spambayes code to tell me whether it's spam is not
> going to help.
Trust me <wink> -- it helps a *lot*. I expect everyone who has done any
testing here has discovered spam in their ham, and vice versa. Results
improve as you improve the categorization. Once the gross mistakes are
straightened out, it's much less tedious to scan the rest by eyeball.
[on skip tokens]
> Yep, it shows up in a lot of spam, but also in different forms in hams.
> But the hams each manage to pick a different variant of
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> or whatever - so they don't end up counteracting the various bits in the
> spam.
>
> Looking further, a _lot_ of the bad skip rubbish is coming from
> uuencoded viruses &c in the spam-set.
For whatever reason, there appear to be few of those in BruceG's spam
collection. I added code to strip uuencoded sections, and pump out uuencode
summary tokens instead. I'll check it in. It didn't make a significant
difference on my usual test run (a single spam in my Set4 is now judged as
ham by the other 4 sets; nothing else changed). It does shrink the database
size here by a few percent. Let us know whether it helps you!
Before and after stripping uuencoded sections:
false positive percentages
0.000 0.000 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.050 0.050 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.075 0.075 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.050 0.050 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.050 0.050 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.000 0.000 tied
0.025 0.025 tied
0.050 0.050 tied
won 0 times
tied 20 times
lost 0 times
total unique fp went from 8 to 8 tied
false negative percentages
0.255 0.255 tied
0.364 0.364 tied
0.254 0.291 lost +14.57%
0.509 0.509 tied
0.436 0.436 tied
0.218 0.218 tied
0.182 0.218 lost +19.78%
0.582 0.582 tied
0.327 0.327 tied
0.255 0.255 tied
0.254 0.291 lost +14.57%
0.582 0.582 tied
0.545 0.545 tied
0.255 0.255 tied
0.291 0.291 tied
0.400 0.400 tied
0.291 0.291 tied
0.218 0.218 tied
0.218 0.218 tied
0.145 0.182 lost +25.52%
won 0 times
tied 16 times
lost 4 times
total unique fn went from 89 to 90 lost +1.12%
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
> How were these msgs broken up into the 5 sets? Set4 in particular is giving
> the other sets severe problems, and Set5 blows the f-n rate on everything
> it's predicting -- when the rates across runs within a training set vary by
> as much as a factor of 25, it suggests there was systematic bias in the way
> the sets were chosen. For example, perhaps they were broken into sets by
> arrival time. If that's what you did, you should go back and break them
> into sets randomly instead. If you did partition them randomly, the wild
> variance across runs is mondo mysterious.
They weren't partitioned in any particular scheme - I think I'll write a
reshuffler and move them all around, just in case (fwiw, I'm using MH
style folders with numbered files - means you can just use MH tools to
manipulate the sets.)
> For whatever reason, there appear to be few of those in BruceG's spam
> collection. I added code to strip uuencoded sections, and pump out uuencode
> summary tokens instead. I'll check it in. It didn't make a significant
> difference on my usual test run (a single spam in my Set4 is now judged as
> ham by the other 4 sets; nothing else changed). It does shrink the database
> size here by a few percent. Let us know whether it helps you!
I'll give it a go.
--
Anthony Baxter <anthony@interlink.com.au>
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] stack.pop() ate my multipart message
[Neale Pickett]
> And then, just as I was about to fall asleep, I figured it out. The
> tokenizer now has an extra [:], and all is well. I feel like a real
> chawbacon for not realizing this earlier. :*)
Good eye, Neale! Thanks for the fix.
> Blaming it on staying up past bedtime,
Blame it on Barry. I do <wink>.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] XTreme Training
[Tim]
>> Why would spam be likely to end up with two instances of Return-Path
>> in the headers?
[Greg Ward]
> Possibly another qmail-ism from Bruce Guenter's spam collection.
Doesn't seem *likely*, as it appeared in about 900 of about 14,000 spams.
It could be specific to one of his bait addresses, though -- don't know. A
nice thing about a statistical inferencer is that you really don't have to
know why a thing works, just whether it works <wink>.
> Or maybe Anthony's right about spammers being stupid and blindly copying
> headers. (Well, of course he's right about spammers being stupid; it's
> just this particular aspect of stupidity that's open to question.)
I'm going to blow it off -- it's just another instance of being pointlessly
baffled by a mixed corpus half of which I don't know enough about.
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
Anthony> They weren't partitioned in any particular scheme - I think
Anthony> I'll write a reshuffler and move them all around, ...
Hmmm. How about you create empty Data/Ham/Set[12345], stuff all your
files into a Data/Ham/reservoir folder, then run the rebal.py script to
randomly parcel messages out to the various real directories?
I suspect you can pull the same stunt for your Data/Spam stuff.
Skip
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
[Skip]
> Hmmm. How about you create empty Data/Ham/Set[12345], stuff all your
> files into a Data/Ham/reservoir folder, then run the rebal.py script to
> randomly parcel messages out to the various real directories?
I'm afraid rebal is quadratic-time in the # of msgs it shuffles around --
since it was only intended to move a few files around, it's dead simple.
An easy thing is to start the same way: move all the files into a single
directory. Then do random.shuffle() on an os.listdir() of that directory.
Then it's trivial to split the result into N slices, and move the files into
N other directories accordingly.
> I suspect you can pull the same stunt for your Data/Spam stuff.
Yup!
| 0 |
[Spambayes] Current histograms
> They weren't partitioned in any particular scheme - I think I'll write a
> reshuffler and move them all around, just in case (fwiw, I'm using MH
> style folders with numbered files - means you can just use MH tools to
> manipulate the sets.)
Freak show. Obviously there _was_ some sort of patterns to the data:
Training on Data/Ham/Set1 & Data/Spam/Set1 ... 1798 hams & 1546 spams
0.779 0.582
0.834 0.840
0.945 0.452
0.667 1.164
Training on Data/Ham/Set2 & Data/Spam/Set2 ... 1798 hams & 1547 spams
1.112 0.776
0.834 0.969
0.779 0.646
0.667 1.100
Training on Data/Ham/Set3 & Data/Spam/Set3 ... 1798 hams & 1548 spams
1.168 0.582
1.001 0.646
0.834 0.582
0.667 0.453
Training on Data/Ham/Set4 & Data/Spam/Set4 ... 1798 hams & 1547 spams
0.779 0.712
0.779 0.582
0.556 0.840
0.779 0.970
Training on Data/Ham/Set5 & Data/Spam/Set5 ... 1798 hams & 1546 spams
0.612 0.517
0.779 0.517
0.723 0.711
0.667 0.582
total false pos 144 1.60177975528
total false neg 101 1.30592190328
(before the shuffle, I was seeing:
total false pos 273 3.03501945525
total false neg 367 4.74282760403
)
For sake of comparision, here's what I see for partitioned into 2 sets:
Training on Data/Ham/Set1 & Data/Spam/Set1 ... 4492 hams & 3872 spams
0.490 0.776
Training on Data/Ham/Set2 & Data/Spam/Set2 ... 4493 hams & 3868 spams
0.401 0.491
total false pos 40 0.445186421814
total false neg 49 0.633074935401
more later...
Anthony
| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-08-24
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Damian Conway Publishes Exegesis 5
posted by hfb on Friday August 23, @14:06 (perl6)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/23/187226
2nd Open Source CMS Conference
posted by ziggy on Friday August 23, @18:30 (events)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/23/1837242
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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or change your preferences, please go to your user page.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-08-24
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* Damian Conway Publishes Exegesis 5
* 2nd Open Source CMS Conference
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Damian Conway Publishes Exegesis 5 |
| posted by hfb on Friday August 23, @14:06 (perl6) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/23/187226 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
An anonymous coward writes "[0]/. has a [1]link to [2]Damian's
[3]Exegesis 5"
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/23/187226
Links:
0. http://www.slashdot.org/
1. http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/02/08/23/1232230.shtml?tid=145
2. http://yetanother.org/damian/
3. http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/2002/08/22/exegesis5.html
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 2nd Open Source CMS Conference |
| posted by ziggy on Friday August 23, @18:30 (events) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/23/1837242 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]Gregor J. Rothfuss writes "There will be a second [1]Open Source CMS
conference this fall in Berkeley. We will feature presentations and
workshops from a wide range of CMS, and would definitely welcome some
Perl-fu in there as well. Also of interest, our efforts to [2]build
bridges across CMS. Participate in our [3]mailing list, or better yet,
[4]show up :)" The [5]first Open Source CMS conference was held in Zurich
this past March.
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/23/1837242
Links:
0. mailto:gregor.rothfuss@oscom.org
1. http://www.oscom.org/conferences/berkeley2002/index.html
2. http://www.oscom.org/interop.html
3. http://www.oscom.org/mailing-lists.html
4. http://www.oscom.org/conferences/berkeley2002/registration_fees.html
5. http://www.oscom.org/conferences/zurich2002/agenda.html
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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| 0 |
How to end the war....
Forwarded-by: Rob Windsor <windsor@warthog.com>
Forwarded-by: "David Dietz" <kansas1@mynewroads.com>
The latest proposal to drive the Taliban and Al Qaeda out of the
Mountains of Afghanistan is to send in the ASF (Alabama Special
Forces) Billy Bob, Bubba, Boo, Scooter, Cooter and Junior are being
sent in with the following information about the Taliban:
1. There is no limit.
2. The season opened last weekend.
3. They taste just like chicken.
4. They hate beer, pickup trucks, country music, and Jesus.
5. Some are queer.
6. They don't like barbecue.
And most importantly...
7. They were responsible for Dale Earnhardt's death.
We estimate it should be over in just about two days.
| 0 |
Family Targetted Advertising
Forwarded-by: Rob Windsor <windsor@warthog.com>
Forwarded-by: "Dave Bruce" <dbruce@wwd.net>
Forwarded by: Gary Williams <garyaw1990@aol.com>
A Mother had 3 virgin daughters. They were all getting married within a
short time period. Because Mom was a bit worried about how their sex
life would get started, she made them all promise to send a postcard
from the honeymoon with a few words on how marital sex felt.
The first girl sent a card from Hawaii two days after the wedding. The
card said nothing but "Maxwell House". Mom was puzzled at first, but
then went to the kitchen and got out the Nescafe jar. It said: "Good till
the last drop." Mom blushed, but was pleased for her daughter.
The second girl sent the card from Vermont a week after the wedding,
and the card read: "Benson & Hedges". Mom now knew to go straight to
her husband's cigarettes, and she read from the Benson & Hedges pack:
"Extra Long, King Size". She was again slightly embarrassed but still
happy for her daughter.
The third girl left for her honeymoon in the Caribbean. Mom waited for
a week, nothing. Another week went by and still nothing. Then after a
whole month, a card finally arrived. Written on it with shaky
handwriting were the words: "British Airways". Mom took out her latest
Harper's Bazaar magazine, flipped through the pages fearing the worst,
and finally found the ad for the airline. The ad said: "Three times a
day, seven days a week, both ways."
Mom fainted.
| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-08-27
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* This Week on perl5-porters (19-25 August 2002)
* Slashdot Taking Questions to Ask Larry Wall
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This Week on perl5-porters (19-25 August 2002) |
| posted by rafael on Monday August 26, @07:42 (summaries) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/26/1154225 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
I guess those thunderstorms came. And how they came. From an even wetter
than normal country on the shores of the North Sea, comes this weeks
perl5-porters summary.
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/26/1154225
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/26/1154225
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Slashdot Taking Questions to Ask Larry Wall |
| posted by pudge on Monday August 26, @14:41 (perl6) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/26/1845224 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Please, if you feel inclined, make sure some [0]reasonable questions are
asked of him.
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/26/1845224
Links:
0. http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/25/236217&tid=145
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[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-08-27
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
This Week on perl5-porters (19-25 August 2002)
posted by rafael on Monday August 26, @07:42 (summaries)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/26/1154225
Slashdot Taking Questions to Ask Larry Wall
posted by pudge on Monday August 26, @14:41 (perl6)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/26/1845224
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| 0 |
The "other" kind of work-experience ...
Forwarded-by: Per Hammer <perh@inrs.co.uk>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2218715.stm
Brothel duty for Australian MP
A conservative Member of Parliament in Australia is set to
spend the day as a "slave" at one of Western Australia's most
notorious brothels.
Liberal Party member Barry Haase was "won" in a charity auction
after the madam of Langtree's brothel in the mining town of
Kalgoorlie made the highest offer for his services for a day.
[...]
"I hope he will leave with an informed decision on what
Australian brothels are all about and it will help him in his
political career to make informed decisions that he might not
have been able to make before," Ms Kenworthy said.
Mr Haase, a member of Prime Minister John Howard's party
seemed relaxed about the prospect of working in a brothel.
"You can't be half-hearted about fundraising for significant
charities and I think I'm big enough to play the game," he said.
| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-08-28
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
.NET and Perl, Working Together
posted by pudge on Tuesday August 27, @09:17 (links)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/27/1317253
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-08-28
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* .NET and Perl, Working Together
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| .NET and Perl, Working Together |
| posted by pudge on Tuesday August 27, @09:17 (links) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/27/1317253 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]jonasbn writes "DevX has brought an article on the subject of [1]Perl
and .NET and porting existing code. The teaser: Learn how CPAN Perl
modules can be made automatically available to the .NET framework. The
technique involves providing small PerlNET mediators between Perl and
.NET and knowing when, where, and how to modify."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/27/1317253
Links:
0. mailto:jonasbn@io.dk
1. http://www.devx.com/dotnet/articles/ym81502/ym81502-1.asp
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[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-08-31
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Two OSCON Lightning Talks Online
posted by gnat on Friday August 30, @18:37 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/30/2238234
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-08-31
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* Two OSCON Lightning Talks Online
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Two OSCON Lightning Talks Online |
| posted by gnat on Friday August 30, @18:37 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/30/2238234 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]gnat writes "The first two OSCON 2002 lightning talks are available
from [1]the perl.org website. They are Dan Brian on "What Sucks and What
Rocks" (in [2]QuickTime and [3]mp3), and Brian Ingerson on "Your Own
Personal Hashbang" (in [4]QuickTime and [5]mp3). Enjoy!"
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/30/2238234
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/30/2238234
Links:
0. mailto:gnat@frii.com
1. http://www.perl.org/tpc/2002/
2. http://www.perl.org/tpc/2002/movies/lt-1/
3. http://www.perl.org/tpc/2002/audio/lt-1/
4. http://www.perl.org/tpc/2002/movies/lt-2/
5. http://www.perl.org/tpc/2002/audio/lt-2/
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-01
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Perl Ports Page
posted by hfb on Saturday August 31, @13:40 (cpan)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/31/1744247
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-01
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* Perl Ports Page
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Perl Ports Page |
| posted by hfb on Saturday August 31, @13:40 (cpan) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/31/1744247 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]jhi writes " One of the largely unknown services of CPAN is the
[1]Ports page, which offers links to ready-packaged binary distributions
of Perl for various platforms, and also other related links (to other
UNIXy software, if the platform isn't, and to IDEs and editors). I would
like to get feedback on the ports page either here or by sending email to
cpan@perl.org. Any kind of feedback is welcome, but I will feel free to
ignore any I don't like :-)"
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/31/1744247
Links:
0. mailto:jhi@iki.fi
1. http://www.cpan.org/ports/
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-03
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* This Week on perl5-porters (26 August / 1st September 2002)
* The Perl Review, v0 i5
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This Week on perl5-porters (26 August / 1st September 2002) |
| posted by rafael on Monday September 02, @03:47 (summaries) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/0755208 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
This week, we're back to our regularly scheduled p5p report, straight
from my keyboard's mouth. Many thanks to Elizabeth Mattjisen who provided
the two previous reports, while I was away from p5p and from whatever
might evocate more or less a computer.
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/0755208
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/02/0755208
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The Perl Review, v0 i5 |
| posted by ziggy on Monday September 02, @14:20 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/1823229 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]brian_d_foy writes "The latest issue of The Perl Review is ready:
[1]http://www.theperlreview.com
* Extreme Mowing -- Andy Lester
* Perl Assembly Language -- Phil Crow
* What Perl Programmers Should Know About Java -- Beth Linker
* Filehandle Ties -- Robby Walker
* The Iterator Design Pattern -- brian d foy
Enjoy!"
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/02/1823229
Links:
0. http://www.theperlreview.com
1. http://www.theperlreview.com/
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-03
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
This Week on perl5-porters (26 August / 1st September 2002)
posted by rafael on Monday September 02, @03:47 (summaries)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/0755208
The Perl Review, v0 i5
posted by ziggy on Monday September 02, @14:20 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/1823229
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-04
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Perl CMS Systems
posted by ziggy on Tuesday September 03, @05:00 (tools)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/1827239
1998 Perl Conference CD Online
posted by gnat on Tuesday September 03, @19:34 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/03/2334251
Bricolage 1.4.0 Escapes!
posted by chip on Tuesday September 03, @19:57 (tools)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/04/002204
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-04
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* Perl CMS Systems
* 1998 Perl Conference CD Online
* Bricolage 1.4.0 Escapes!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Perl CMS Systems |
| posted by ziggy on Tuesday September 03, @05:00 (tools) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/1827239 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
KLB writes "[0]Krow, one of the authors of [1]Slash, has written up a
[2]review on [3]Linux.com of two other Perl CMS systems, the E2 and LJ
engines. Makes for interesting reading."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/02/1827239
Links:
0. http://krow.net/~
1. http://slashcode.com/
2. http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/08/28/0013255&mode=thread&tid=49
3. http://linux.com/
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1998 Perl Conference CD Online |
| posted by gnat on Tuesday September 03, @19:34 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/03/2334251 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]gnat writes "[1]The 1998 Perl Conference CD is online on perl.org.
Enjoy the blast from the past (was [2]this Damian's first public
appearance?)" (thanks to Daniel Berger for packratting the CD!)
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/03/2334251
Links:
0. mailto:gnat@oreilly.com
1. http://www.perl.org/tpc/1998/
2. http://www.perl.org/tpc/1998/User_Applications/Declarative%20Command-line%20Inter/
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bricolage 1.4.0 Escapes! |
| posted by chip on Tuesday September 03, @19:57 (tools) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/04/002204 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]Theory writes "Bricolage 1.4.0 has finally escaped the shackles of its
CVS repository! ... Bricolage is a full-featured, enterprise-class
content management and publishing system. It offers a browser-based
interface for ease-of use, a full-fledged templating system with complete
programming language support for flexibility, and many other features
(see below). It operates in an Apache/mod_perl environment, and uses the
PostgreSQL RDBMS for its repository."
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/04/002204
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/04/002204
Links:
0. http://bricolage.cc/
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-06
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Perl "Meetup"
posted by ziggy on Thursday September 05, @19:12 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/05/2316234
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-06
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* Perl "Meetup"
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Perl "Meetup" |
| posted by ziggy on Thursday September 05, @19:12 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/05/2316234 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]davorg writes "The people at [1]Meetup have set up a [2]Perl Meetup.
The first one takes place on September 19th. I'll probably go along to
the one in London to see what happens, but I'd be very interested in
hearing any opinions on what this achieves that the existing Perl Mongers
groups don't."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/05/2316234
Links:
0. mailto:dave@dave.org.uk
1. http://www.meetup.com/
2. http://perl.meetup.com/
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| 0 |
Man dies as whale lands on boat
Forwarded-by: Sven Guckes <guckes@math.fu-berlin.de>
http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5037762%255E13762,00.html
Port San Luis, California
September 05, 2002
A WHALE which suddenly breached and crashed into the bow of a
fishing boat killed a restaurant owner on board.
Jerry Tibbs, 51, of Bakersfield, California, was aboard his boat,
The BBQ, when the whale hit and tossed him into the sea five miles
off Port San Luis.
Three other fishermen stayed aboard the damaged boat, which was
towed to shore by the US Coast Guard.
Tibbs and his three friends were just ending a day fishing for
albacore when the accident occurred, authorities said.
Tibbs' body was found after a search lasting more than 18 hours
Coast Guard officials said it was the first time they could recall
an accident caused by a whale hitting a boat.
| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-10
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
This Week on perl5-porters (2-8 September 2002)
posted by rafael on Monday September 09, @07:33 (summaries)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/09/1147243
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-10
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* This Week on perl5-porters (2-8 September 2002)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This Week on perl5-porters (2-8 September 2002) |
| posted by rafael on Monday September 09, @07:33 (summaries) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/09/1147243 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
As September begins, the perl5-porters, ignoring the changing weather,
continue to work. This week, some small things, and a few bigger ones,
are selected in the report. Read below.
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/09/1147243
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/09/1147243
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-11
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
DynDNS.org Offers Free DNS To Perl Sites
posted by KM on Tuesday September 10, @08:23 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/10/1225228
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-11
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* DynDNS.org Offers Free DNS To Perl Sites
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| DynDNS.org Offers Free DNS To Perl Sites |
| posted by KM on Tuesday September 10, @08:23 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/10/1225228 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]krellis writes "[0]DynDNS.org today [1]announced that it will provide
free premium DNS services (primary and secondary DNS hosting) to any
domains involved in the Perl Community. Read the press release for full
details, [2]create an account, and [3]request credit under the Perl DNS
offer! Never lose traffic to your Perl site due to failed DNS again!"
Sweet. Thanks.
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/10/1225228
Links:
0. http://www.dyndns.org/
1. http://www.dyndns.org/news/2002/perl-dns.php
2. https://members.dyndns.org/policy.shtml
3. https://members.dyndns.org/nic/perl
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-13
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
The Perl Journal Returns Online
posted by pudge on Wednesday September 11, @21:59 (links)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/12/026254
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-13
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* The Perl Journal Returns Online
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The Perl Journal Returns Online |
| posted by pudge on Wednesday September 11, @21:59 (links) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/12/026254 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
CMP, owners of [0]The Perl Journal, have brought the journal back, in the
form of an online monthly magazine, in PDF form. The subscription rate is
$12 a year. They need 3,000 subscriptions to move forward (no word if
existing subscriptions will be honored, or included in the 3,000).
[0]Read the site for more details.
I think some of the more interesting notes are that it will include "a
healthy dose of opinion", as well a broadening of coverage including
languages other than Perl (will this mean a name change?) and platforms
other than Unix (I'd always thought one of TPJ's strengths was that it
covered a wide variety of platforms).
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/12/026254
Links:
0. http://www.tpj.com/
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-14
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
"Perl 6: Right Here, Right Now" slides ava
posted by gnat on Friday September 13, @12:01 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/13/162209
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-14
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* "Perl 6: Right Here, Right Now" slides ava
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Perl 6: Right Here, Right Now" slides ava |
| posted by gnat on Friday September 13, @12:01 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/13/162209 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]gnat writes "The wonderful Leon Brocard has released the slides from
his lightning talk to the London perlmongers, [1]Perl 6: Right Here,
Right Now, showing the current perl6 compiler in action."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/13/162209
Links:
0. mailto:gnat@oreilly.com
1. http://astray.com/perl6_now/
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-17
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
New Perl Mongers Web Site
posted by KM on Monday September 16, @08:41 (groups)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/1243234
Java vs. Perl
posted by pudge on Monday September 16, @11:15 (java)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/1448246
This Week on perl5-porters (9-15 September 2002)
posted by rafael on Monday September 16, @16:17 (summaries)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/2026255
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-17
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* New Perl Mongers Web Site
* Java vs. Perl
* This Week on perl5-porters (9-15 September 2002)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| New Perl Mongers Web Site |
| posted by KM on Monday September 16, @08:41 (groups) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/1243234 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]davorg writes "Leon Brocard has been working hard to update the
[1]Perl Mongers web site. We're still going thru the process of cleaning
up the data about the Perl Monger groups, so if you see something that
isn't quite right then please [2]let us know."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/16/1243234
Links:
0. mailto:dave@dave.org.uk
1. http://www.pm.org/
2. mailto:user_groups@pm.org
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Java vs. Perl |
| posted by pudge on Monday September 16, @11:15 (java) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/1448246 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
It seems the older Perl gets, the more willing people are to believe that
it sucks, without any reasonable facts. [0]davorg writes "You may have
seen the article [1]Can Java technology beat Perl on its home turf with
pattern matching in large files? that there has been some debate about on
both #perl and comp.lang.perl.misc today. One of the biggest criticisms
of the article was that the author hasn't published the Perl code that he
is comparing his Java with."
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/1448246
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/16/1448246
Links:
0. mailto:dave@dave.org.uk
1. http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/qow/archive/184/index.jsp
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This Week on perl5-porters (9-15 September 2002) |
| posted by rafael on Monday September 16, @16:17 (summaries) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/2026255 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
This was not a very busy week, with people packing for YAPC::Europe, and
all that... Nevertheless, the smoke tests were running, the bug reports
were flying, and an appropriate amount of patches were sent. Read about
printf formats, serialized tied thingies, built-in leak testing, syntax
oddities, et alii.
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/16/2026255
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/16/2026255
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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I'm a tad furry...
Forwarded-by: Nev Dull <nev@sleepycat.com>
Forwarded-by: newsletter@tvspy.com
Excerpted: ShopTalk - September 13, 2002
"I'm a tad furry, so animal rights issues come into play."
Robin Williams, telling Entertainment Weekly why he won't do
nude scenes in movies.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Johnny U: Johnny Unitas was the National Football League's most valuable
player twice - and he led Baltimore to victory in "Super Bowl Five."
For those of you younger than 30: this WAS modern football. The game
was played on artificial turf. (Richard Burkard/
http://www.Laughline.com)
Announcement: How telling is it that the death of Johnny Unitas was
announced by the Baltimore Ravens - and not the Colts, who now play in
Indianapolis? When the Colt owners moved out of Baltimore years ago,
they apparently left all the history books behind. (Burkard)
Dick Disappears: Vice President Dick Cheney remains at an undisclosed
location. The move is for security reasons. The Bush Administration
is trying to keep him at a safe distance from would-be subpoenas. (Alan
Ray - http://www.araycomedy.com)
Noelle Nabbed: Jeb Bush's daughter Noelle is in trouble with the law
again. When she was a child, her dad would read her favorite bedtime
story. Goldilocks and the Three Strikes. (Ray)
| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-18
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Subscribe to The Perl Review
posted by pudge on Tuesday September 17, @08:00 (links)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/17/121210
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-18
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* Subscribe to The Perl Review
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Subscribe to The Perl Review |
| posted by pudge on Tuesday September 17, @08:00 (links) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/17/121210 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]barryp writes "You can now pledge a subscription to [1]The Perl Review.
The plan is to produce four print magazines per year. Cost: $12/year
(US); $20/year (international). Let's all make this happen by signing
up!" The web site says that they'll attempt to go print if they get
enough subscription pledges.
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/17/121210
Links:
0. mailto:paul.barry@itcarlow.ie
1. http://www.theperlreview.com/
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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Virgin's latest airliner.
Forwarded-by: William Knowles <wk@c4i.org>
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2002430339,00.html
By PAUL CROSBIE
Sep 16, 2002
VIRGIN'S latest airliner is being revamped after randy passengers
discovered a tiny cabin was just the place to join the Mile High Club.
The �130million Airbus 340-600 is fitted with a 5ft x 4ft mother and
baby room with a plastic table meant for changing nappies.
But couples keep wrecking it by sneaking in for a quick bonk.
Virgin has replaced the table several times even though the plane only
came into service a few weeks ago.
It is named Claudia Nine after sexy model Claudia Schiffer, 32, who
launched it in July.
Now Virgin bosses have asked Airbus to build a stronger table.
At first, German engineers responsible for the jet's interior were
baffled by the problem.
The table is designed to take the weight of a mum and baby.
One Airbus worker said: "We couldn't work it out. Then the penny
dropped. It didn't occur to the Germans that this might happen. It
caused great amusement."
The firm say the cost of strengthening the tables will be about �200.
A Virgin spokeswoman said: "Those determined to join the Mile High
Club will do so despite the lack of comforts.
"We don't mind couples having a good time but this is not something
that we would encourage because of air regulations."
The new Airbus is the world's longest airliner, with teasing slogan
"Mine is bigger than yours". Virgin is using it on flights to the Far
East and the US.
| 0 |
Facts about sex.
Forwarded-by: Flower
Did you know that you can tell from the skin whether a person is
sexually active or not?
1. Sex is a beauty treatment. Scientific tests find that when woman
make love they produce more of the hormone estrogen, which makes
hair shiny and skin smooth.
2. Gentle, relaxed lovemaking reduces your chances of suffering
dermatitis, skin rashes and blemishes. The sweat produced cleanses
the pores and makes your skin glow.
3. Lovemaking can burn up those calories you piled on during that
romantic dinner.
4. Sex is one of the safest sports you can take up. It stretches
and tones up just about every muscle in the body. It's more enjoyable
than swimming 20 laps, and you don't need special sneakers!
5. Sex is an instant cure for mild depression. It releases the body
endorphin into the bloodstream, producing a sense of euphoria and
leaving you with a feeling of well-being.
6. The more sex you have, the more you will be offered. The sexually
active body gives off greater quantities of chemicals called
pheromones. These subtle sex perfumes drive the opposite sex crazy!
7. Sex is the safest tranquilizer in the world. IT IS 10 TIMES MORE
EFFECTIVE THAN VALIUM.
8. Kissing each day will keep the dentist away. Kissing encourages
saliva to wash food from the teeth and lowers the level of the acid
that causes decay, preventing plaque build-up.
9. Sex actually relieves headaches. A lovemaking session can release
the tension that restricts blood vessels in the brain.
10. A lot of lovemaking can unblock a stuffy nose. Sex is a national
antihistamine. It can help combat asthma and hay fever.
ENJOY SEX!
| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-19
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
How much does Perl, PHP, Java, or Lisp suck?
posted by pudge on Wednesday September 18, @08:08 (links)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/17/189201
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-19
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* How much does Perl, PHP, Java, or Lisp suck?
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| How much does Perl, PHP, Java, or Lisp suck? |
| posted by pudge on Wednesday September 18, @08:08 (links) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/17/189201 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]brian_d_foy writes "A long time ago Don Marti started the OS
Sucks-Rules-O-Meter, and Jon Orwant wrote his own Sucks-Rules-O-Meter for
computer languages. Recently Dan Brian improved on that with a little bit
of natural language processing. Now [1]The Perl Review makes pretty
pictures of it all. Based on searches of AltaVista and Google, we found
that not a lot of people think PHP or Lisp sucks, a lot think C++ and
Java suck, and they put Perl is somewhere in the middle. Does Perl suck
more than it use to suck, or has PHP just shot way ahead?"
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/17/189201
Links:
0. http://www.theperlreview.com
1. http://www.theperlreview.com/at_a_glance.html
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-20
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
PerlQT 3 Released
posted by ziggy on Thursday September 19, @10:41 (tools)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/19/1443213
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-20
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* PerlQT 3 Released
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| PerlQT 3 Released |
| posted by ziggy on Thursday September 19, @10:41 (tools) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/19/1443213 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]Dom2 writes "As seen on the dot, a new version of [1]PerlQT is out!
Apparently sporting a perl version of [2]uic for developing ui's from
XML. A [3]tutorial is available for those wanting to know more details."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/19/1443213
Links:
0. mailto:dom@happygiraffe.net
1. http://perlqt.infonium.com/
2. http://doc.trolltech.com/3.0/uic.html
3. http://perlqt.infonium.com/dist/current/doc/index.html
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-23
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
YAPC 2003 Call For Venues
posted by KM on Sunday September 22, @09:08 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/22/1312225
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-23
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* YAPC 2003 Call For Venues
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| YAPC 2003 Call For Venues |
| posted by KM on Sunday September 22, @09:08 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/22/1312225 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]Yet Another Society/[1]The Perl Foundation is making a call for venues
for the 2003 YAPC::America. Don't forget to check the [2]venue
requirements, the YAPC::Venue module on CPAN, and talk to the organizers
of YAPCs past. The Perl Foundation aims to announce the venue in November
2002.
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/22/1312225
Links:
0. http://yetanother.org
1. http://perlfoundation.org
2. http://www.yapc.org/venue-reqs.txt
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-24
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
This Week on perl5-porters (16-22 September 2002)
posted by rafael on Monday September 23, @07:58 (summaries)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/23/125230
The Great Perl Monger Cull Of 2002
posted by ziggy on Monday September 23, @16:38 (news)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/23/2041201
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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[use Perl] Stories for 2002-09-24
use Perl Daily Newsletter
In this issue:
* This Week on perl5-porters (16-22 September 2002)
* The Great Perl Monger Cull Of 2002
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This Week on perl5-porters (16-22 September 2002) |
| posted by rafael on Monday September 23, @07:58 (summaries) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/23/125230 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
That's on a week like this that you realize that lots of porters are
European (and managed to free themselves for YAPC::Europe.) Or were they,
on the contrary, too busy in the big blue room ? On the other hand, the
number of bug reports stayed at its habitual average level.
This story continues at:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/23/125230
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/23/125230
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The Great Perl Monger Cull Of 2002 |
| posted by ziggy on Monday September 23, @16:38 (news) |
| http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/23/2041201 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
[0]davorg writes "If you take a look at [1]list of local groups on the
[2]Perl Mongers web site, you'll see that it's just got a good deal
shorter. Over the last month or so, I've been making strenuous efforts to
contact all of the groups we had listed to see which ones were still
active. What you see is the result of this exercise. Almost half of the
groups have been removed because they haven't responded to my emails.
If your local group still exists but is no longer listed, then that means
that I don't have an update to date contact for your group. Please [3]let
me know if that's the case."
Discuss this story at:
http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/09/23/2041201
Links:
0. mailto:dave@dave.org.uk
1. http://www.pm.org/groups/
2. http://www.pm.org/
3. mailto:user_groups@pm.org
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
======================================================================
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| 0 |
[use Perl] Headlines for 2002-09-26
use Perl Daily Headline Mailer
Using Web Services with Perl and AppleScript
posted by pudge on Wednesday September 25, @08:12 (links)
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/25/129231
Copyright 1997-2002 pudge. All rights reserved.
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