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46aa0e2fe8df-21 | 10 medals around you but inside there's nothing so then by looking at the woman you will know that which of the mahavidyas she represents which of the forms of shakti's in latent inside that latent Insider that's one thing latent means that most of them are not even aware and which is perfectly all right just like most men have but that doesn't mean that every man is Lord Shiva or Lord Krishna it doesn't work same way not every woman has anything to do with the deity there is the potential for one if the sadhana is correctly done that potential can awaken if that woman Becomes self-aware of what she holds with it then she becomes one of the bhairavis and yogiris in the higher levels and then everybody will fall at the feet of such a woman that is very rare and it's possible and it happens um there and it's very high level idea but uh in this uh upasana the other thing is that it breaks certain mental taboos that is there in | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-22 | breaks certain mental taboos that is there in the normal course of upasana and the way they got standard we are told that you have to maintain a certain degree of celibacy which is uh which is right which is I'm not denying that in certain practices celibacy is very important otherwise it will not work it will not show you the result um it it causes a break in concentration more or less one of the typical effects of uh you know not having celibacy is that it causes a break in the concentration at the peak moment when you are supposed to have 110 focus on the Mantra in the deity that is where thoughts and images of uh sexual encounters will rise up and it happens from the chitta within it rises up and it rises up and it is going to break your concentration you will not get the result is the core of your soul it's like your mind it's a part of your mind it's it's like that place inside you where Impressions | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-23 | it's like that place inside you where Impressions happen all the time subconscious mind conscious mind only but it's latent just below the conscious mind you're meeting somebody you're anything whatever activity you're doing it is it just collects an impression of it okay and randomly throws up just like that when you're not thinking about it suddenly especially specifically if you're not trying to meditate it's going to throw up all sorts of images it happens to everybody okay okay coming back to the topic of conflict sex so basically this practice is done during the time of this sadhana during the time the the woman is actually to be made to sit in a specific posture and monthers have to be chanted all over our body and uh I will not go into the specific details of how this is done and what mantras also everything is is as per it's not something randomly done these are things that are mentioned in text and passed down through traditions of those traditions where these forms are worshiped specific forms of the | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-24 | where these forms are worshiped specific forms of the mother the mahavidas are there for whom this sadhana is extremely potent okay uh you have to know number one number two uh there is a knowledge of uh what kind of a partner is suitable for this the somebody who has uh through Mantra sadhana there is an intuitive ability that develops just by looking at the person you'll get to know what kind of result is going to happen and this thing by the way extrapolates it outside of the tantric context also the reason why there is a certain amount of control over sex is always advised in the spiritual path because when you have unrestricted sexual encounters with people you do not know what karmas they have done you are going to imbive their energy that is the easiest way to take in somebody else's energy is that Tantra believes that if you have sex with someone you don't know you're saying I accept this person's karmas as my own not just Tantra any way it | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-25 | as my own not just Tantra any way it will happen is the easiest way on the other hand if this process is correctly done and the right people are there it is the this one this when you are doing it as a practicer spiritual practice not just for enjoyment Etc spiritual practice it has the power to instantly open up all the chakras in your body which could be dangerous no it will be it can lead you then and mind you everything is going perfect I am talking about the uh the result that it finally produces if everything is right it will lead you to a state known as mahabhava samadhi which means that you are in a state of absolute Bliss rapture extended orgasm no it's way beyond that you will have a vision of the deity it will be in a state of samadhi means basically your mind becomes absolutely concentrated on the deity and there'll be a manifestation of the radiant it is a state of unbelievable if it's correctly done and | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-26 | state of unbelievable if it's correctly done and the progress that will happen between the two partners together it is it's like it doubles your power probably also get connected to your car partner more deeply that is there that's a side effect of it that is also there beforehand which means that this process is anyway not going to work if you have not had the same partner for many lifetimes just like that if you meet karmically somebody it's not going to work out it will just be a relationship and two days later you'll have some fight and reach will go its own way so I'm assuming that the guru who actually initiates both the partners into this uh will ensure that either they are husband and wife or so here is uh in this age today mostly it has ensured that it's a husband and wife but there was an uh there is another tradition older tradition that used to happen and those are there are certain as where so they've left Society Hermits kind of Hermits yeah | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-27 | left Society Hermits kind of Hermits yeah maybe basically they've left Society so they're not part of a formal Society they only practice and they're connected to the Mandalay mandeli means group that specific group who practice in their uh marriage is not specifically there free out of free will they decide the both the partners decide and the guru decides whether they have the capacity for it okay here is the thing what is the what is the level of the male partner and what is the level of the female partner and the specific terms that are used for the male the term that is used is bhairava and the female that the term that is used is bhairavi okay so whether the bhairava and the bhairavi are matched for this kind of a practice and then they can stay together for something could be months could be years Etc then they may even go out in the sense that you know Pathways in the sadhana so this was an accepted idea in tantric circles earlier when there used | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-28 | idea in tantric circles earlier when there used to be more of people who used to leave uh Society normal society and practice entirely in India I remember an anecdote I had read and that's a not an anecdote actually it's a very it's a true incident there's a beautiful text in Bengali it's called which means that is somebody who is curious about Tantra sadhana country processes that kind of an individual he goes out in search of sadhus who are of the tantric persuasion and he interacts with them and this gentleman spent 12 years roaming around India trying to find these kind of people here later he came back home and later he had gone to Sri aurobindo and then he wrote that book and that book is a cult classic only thing is that it is in Bengali those who have read it it's it's it will blow your mind it's the one of the greatest books I've read so there he had an interesting encounter he mentions he comes from a | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-29 | had an interesting encounter he mentions he comes from a traditional Vedic family so he is suspicious of Tantra he mentions right at the beginning he thinks that there is some this is you know some kind of Jewel to use the very typical Mumbai language like some kind of fast he doesn't believe that this thing actually leads to anything he's very skeptical he's very honest that he's skeptical about it but he's still curious to see and it's perhaps his destiny that he gets to meet a lot of great tantricas of that era and he was an artist by the way so all he used to carry with him was a pen and paper and whenever he used to meet somebody interesting to make a sketch of that individual okay so he goes to a place called Walker in Bengal Walker is one of the oh ancient Shakti betas of an important uh divine feminine Temple yes I'm having to translate everything because we have so many American and European viewers but I got your back | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-30 | many American and European viewers but I got your back go download my meditation app I'm kidding so so he goes to vakrishwar that is one of the very famous and Powerful uh temples of uh of the Goddess okay or the tantric temples and it was that in that era the temple was famous for virajar sadhana viracha is an extreme form of Tantra sadhana where these things come into play viraja Veer means you are like a hero vir okay by the since we're talking of classifies men into three categories first is pashu an animal who is an animal who has no spiritual conception just going around doing whatever else you are doing in life you are a pursue after you have the tantric initiation and you start doing your practices you become a Veera you are a hero because you are trying to fight against your Tendencies and develop yourself spiritually it and then last stage you become a div we are a Divine being okay this is the three categories of men | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-31 | Divine being okay this is the three categories of men whole of Tantra sastra is meant only for the Vira but the pashu who is uninitiated at the initial stages there are no you do The Vedic sadhana you are not even you're not even entered the arena the Veera after you have the initiation then only all these rules all this Makara everything comes into play and finally the Divine the Divya he also has no rules why because he has already become Divine whatever he does is correct so Tantra says that you don't mess with him and the pursue you don't bother about him it's only the middle section that I am curious about and bother that Temple is famous for viratara and this gentleman goes there and this must be in early 1900s maybe 1910 or something I don't remember the year Etc so uh people tell him that in The Cremation ground and The Cremation ground still exists by the way and that cremation ground is so interesting uh not | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-32 | and that cremation ground is so interesting uh not advisable for people to just hear and Rush there but if even in the afternoon if you go there you'll have that certain Airy feeling there in that area so it's wonderful place for certain kinds of personas certain kind of tantric sadhanas and thankfully it is not yet commercialized so it's good here he goes there and he there's a Temple of the mother goddess of MAA Durga is there and he stays in the temple and the those days if there's a Wandering monk that comes he used to wear that Hmong kind of dress so they gave him some food and a place to stay and all that and somebody tells him that there is an agori who sits in The Cremation ground so they just call him Baba they don't know what his name is they just know that he has come from Tamil Nadu he's come from the south and he is sitting there and he stays there in The | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-33 | is sitting there and he stays there in The Cremation grounds and nobody disturbs him Nobody messes with him and this guy gets very curious okay he's curious he's scared he's also skeptical that all these things are some farce but at the same time there's curiosity also what is happening what is this Etc somebody tells him that aghori as we were discussing eats once in three days and what does he eat he consumes uh the brain matter of dead bodies with the rice once in three days the Dome Dome is the individual who used to you know helps in the burning of the bodies yeah which is a whole other topic by itself met some domes and that's a whole it's a society yes yes and they're supposed to also have tantric Powers the worshipers of uh so yeah so it's there yeah yeah so in that the Dome uh used to refer to him call him Baba and he used to get that that brain matter if you have ever | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-34 | to get that that brain matter if you have ever seen a skull pop in the fire it makes a sound and what's the sound like it's like it's like a cracking of the skull in the fire and then something will that that brain matter the GUI mask comes out Etc to observed in a cremation ground anyway so he used to consume that once in three days he was a hardcore means he's gone beyond even the rules of Tantra sadhana also nobody used to mess with him nothing but people used to River him very much that he is not an ordinary person he is almost he's like become he's become wherever only wherever is the Lord of The Cremation ground Shiva in this form as bhairava is the king of the commission ground nobody comes close to him he's the one okay he controls everything there then one day after few days he sees that and he is curious to meet the gentleman but he's scared of the gentleman is he he's writing all this it's | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-35 | gentleman is he he's writing all this it's the mix of emotions is going on okay he sees that the Lord of tantrics who have tantricas have come to that place suddenly one day and from different far-off places and this is we are talking about pre-independence India so people have come from Bangladesh there's a lady who has come from Bangla present day Bangladesh there's somebody who's come from some other place Etc and he is wondering that why they are gathering so he goes to one more friendly and approachable looking of the tantricas and says that why have you come and he says that because we will be doing in Chakra chakra understands you know the highest pujas in Tantra greatest of pujas okay chakra is like the ultimate of upasanas so and the Baba has called us how did he call telepathically there's no telephone in that era and he's sitting in a cremation ground he doesn't even have anything so he telepathically calls them and they come start coming | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-36 | he telepathically calls them and they come start coming and those days they have to walk and things like that so few months ago and Etc they're Gathering Together and they have come all in partners partners groups Etc and then there is a lady who uh comes from Bangladesh okay so he is this guy he's curious that he's like asking but don't you think this is all you know whatever what good can it come out of all whatever you guys do Etc and the people are trying to convince him you know you don't know this you have not tried the path if you don't know something how can you say that it's good or bad okay which is the story of most Catholics in the world yes So eventually the night of amavastya comes amava says the new moon night completely dark completely dark okay and at night the chakra understand will happen so what is the chakra understand chakra understand is a is called Russia mysterious worship the term that is used is mysterious worship | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-37 | worship the term that is used is mysterious worship it is not to be done in public it cannot be even ideally the details of it cannot be spoken of in a gathering where the people are not initiated into Tantra Puja so people will sit in a circle and there will be a Karma of sitting there's the bhairava and his bhairavi will sit wherever and his bhairavi will sit his partner Shakti okay and there will be complete Synergy between the two by the way when this practice is correctly done the two people will have such coordination one the partner of the bhairava may be here and the wherever maybe 5000 kilometers away know exactly what this person is thinking and it will be perfectly it's not even as it's not like by fluke once or twice some coincidence happens and we think that oh something is happening no to test it the bhairava will mentally give a command something weird Okay so which is not you cannot predict that thing something three to four | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-38 | not you cannot predict that thing something three to four times this test has to be done by the way is that a very far off distance you will give a command she will register it in her head and do exactly that and that is how you know that the coordination has been built to that perfection it is not to be left to a fluke and I know that this may seem complete um Skeptics I don't care this is what it is you believe it you don't believe in your business I don't care so then all this come together on the night and in Chakra as I was saying chakra you sit together in a circle chakra means a circle together in a circle and there's a leader of the chakra he's known as chakrish for a lord of the chakra and there is a chakrishwary his partner okay they are like Shiva and Parvati only in The Cremation ground forms okay and um and bhairavi is his partner so uh they sit together and they do this | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-39 | partner so uh they sit together and they do this panchamakara upasana one after the other and it creates a tremendous Crescent of power and the other thing that is there once you once you enter the chakra once anybody enters the chakra you will lose your distinction of caste or any other outside you may be rich you may be poor doesn't matter as long as you are in the chakra you are all one only difference is who has more Shakti than the other and there is a certain arrangement of sitting that is followed in certain chakras and other things but I won't go into all the details because not everything can be spoken of in public but anyway the chakra understand is happening what I am talking to you is already written down in a text hundreds of people have read it I'm just translating that story and once again because it brings out that element okay um so this guy this author he's very curious what is it doing so he goes | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-40 | very curious what is it doing so he goes into the cremation ground and from a shrub in the uh you know forested certain areas he hides himself there and is observing okay what exactly is going on so you see that they are sitting together in a circle and then in the middle there is the Gori Baba who's sitting on his left is that a lady that female bhairavi would come from Bangladesh very senior who was there and the others were sitting in circles so this goes like this that the immediate left is the Shakti of that person of that person and then the Puja starts Puja means first they will be meet first okay so meet with mantras they will consume it they will pass consume pass and with every partaking of the meat you'll have to do Mantra Japan it's not just a you know let's sit together and have a feast no no no every partaking you have to sit and do mantras affaste then there's Karan the term alcohol is | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-41 | affaste then there's Karan the term alcohol is not used neither is madira used the term that is used in tantris Karan because it takes you to the Karan Sharif purified Sanctified alcohol that takes you to the Karan sharir and with mantras and all these things it has to be purified is not something you just get from the market to understand the word current Sharif you'll have to go back to a second podcast your body consists of three parts your physical body your astral body and your causal body your astral body can be thought of as your ghost and your causal body is your purest form of your soul which is just pure light now go answer okay so um so he's seeing from a distance that what exactly are they doing and he's seeing with a bit of skepticism and curiosity as it happens the more skeptical we are the more curious also we are what exactly is happening and he sees that there is the meat that is being passed | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-42 | that there is the meat that is being passed then there is a fish and then there's the alcohol and then there's the mudra parched grains so there are certain um green dry grain stuff that we use for mudra and then there is the final punch and he sees that uh the bhairavi the chakra was the leader of the pack the agori and the bhairavi she sits in front she opens her clothes she starts is doing Mantra Japan on her forehead on a neck on different parts of the body this whole process goes on for one hour almost so he's doing Mantra Mantra of the deity basically he's invoking the form of the mother God is inside okay of that Shakti of the power of the deity inside that is Shakti inside the lady who's sitting there in the and she's also a tantric Lady by the way not an ordinary woman Etc and he's observing all this and he is also not sure what exactly is happening since Etc and | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-43 | sure what exactly is happening since Etc and then after some time um and it's it's kind of dark it's dark and he's the the what he's seeing is through the there are lamps those days obviously you didn't have that kind of yeah and that remote place so there was uh Diaz or oil lamps etcetera lit in front everybody so the light of that lamp in the Darkness at midnight on a cremation ground is observing this scene okay and then suddenly at the end of this whole Puja process that is going on he sees that the Gori who's the leader of the chakra he sits and on his left thigh the lady who is also uh she sits down and a specific mudra okay and he's doing japa with this hand with this there's a Mala in his hand like this is and at that moment there's a flash of lightning in The Cremation ground a thundering lightning in the pitch darkness and that lightning rips apart the darkness everything is visible | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-44 | that lightning rips apart the darkness everything is visible at that time and he sees to his absolute shocking amazement that there is no there is the chakra is not that is Shiva is sitting full jata there and there are snakes around him in his head and there is a trishula and there is Parvati sitting next to him and he sees that in a fields in that flash of lightning all he sees he writes down is that I can see that this is the chakrishoda is gone it's not there anymore this Shiva is sitting and this Parvati is sitting there in that posture in that specific mudra we call it in specific posture and there are snakes in his daughter as Shiva has snakes Okay and there is a threshold near him and there are beings all around Etc Andy faints he wakes up next day in the afternoon and he the Dome who used to be there uh Dome he sees when he wakes up he sees that the Dome | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-45 | when he wakes up he sees that the Dome is throwing water on his mouth and all that the person that burns the body so he's saying that um [Music] while he was hidden there and observing all this the aghuri knew everything so after some time the aghori called The Dome and said that that guy is there is fainted take him inside let him rest he doesn't have the capacity to take the power of this he doesn't even have an initiation for again initiation he was a very genuine individual very high caliber very very very high caliber so the kind of power that is generated for a person who does not have that practice if he is there it is going to cause a shocking effect on you as we were discussing in the previous podcast the moment you come into face to face with the reality that is non-conceptual so you build Concepts in your head whether it's skepticism I don't believe it whether oh this is a big Theory there's God somewhere but he's | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-46 | is a big Theory there's God somewhere but he's not coming here I'm safe completely the moment you have an altered experience it breaks down your Concepts and you either run away scared from it or you bow down a difference there's no other rational way in which the mind can process an experience that is beyond your ordinary you know what you are accustomed to so he uh this chakrishwarya he knew that that guy was dead there's no way he can know because he's hidden there and he calls this Dome and says that he's fainted take him inside put some water let him sleep so next day he wakes up and his his leg stunned at what he has seen and um he comes to this uheshwar and says and this this aghori starts laughing okay and then there's a beautiful ancient ensuing conversation and says that everything in this material plane is divine it is not that there is a God outside the god that you worship ishwara ishwari the Shakti the supreme power that | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-47 | ishwari the Shakti the supreme power that we are worshiping the Supreme mother God is that we are worshiping she's here in this plane everywhere hidden inside even the things that you consider as uh as impure things that you consider as filthy it is there even there inside that is the philosophy we have we have even from the upanishads there's a statement that sarvam khalidam Brahman everything is Brahman it is not saying that there is a God outside and not here no we don't believe only a transcendental God or a deity or an ishwara the devatha manifests here in this plane also it is hidden there it is through the process that you remove process of the upasana of the practice of you remove the veil and you have a direct experience of the deity so what in this case the whole point of this story was that when correctly done this sadhana by the right people who are actually practicing and who look at it not as some kind of an | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-48 | who look at it not as some kind of an enjoyment and some Fringe activity I'm doing and some you know whatever else they think they're doing you look at it in the right sense this is the nupasana this is a worship of the mother you look at it with the sense of reverence with that sense of sacredness it has to be that sacredness has to be there and not just repeating sacredness ten times no no that feeling of reverence you when you go to a normal Temple of any normal Temple of a deity you have faith on be it hanumanji be it Lord Shiva with Krishna with anybody you have a sacredness and sense of reverence right you go with the you don't fool around there you go you fold your hand sacredness that sacredness has to be there in this process for it to work because you are not just doing random actions this is worship then this will manifest into a terrific spiritual state of absolute this is | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-49 | into a terrific spiritual state of absolute this is mahabhav samadhi kind of state this is where you not only have a manifestation of the deity and I remember in the last podcasts I think we mentioned that one of the goals of the Tantra sadhana and the other parts is for the deity to be inside you samavesha is the term that is used not just a Liberation but you divinize yourself completely okay so that there's no difference between you and the deity as I will say so this is what it is he that gentleman that aghori who was there whose name is also not known this incident he had attained to that kind of a condition that when he was performing the ritual Shiva himself had entered into him there's no difference between him and Shiva now what mode is Liberation if Shiva if if a deity like Shiva comes into you Etc that is Moksha this is Moksha this is Liberation this is all there is what about the people in that Circle | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-50 | all there is what about the people in that Circle they are a part of it to uh spiritually Advance like I'm assuming it's we spoke about how tantric sex is a very big boost in your spiritual advancement I'm assuming that a ritual like this makes it even faster yes and is everyone naked during the process yes uh not when the Pancham Makara the fifth Makara comes in in fact uh very often uh after the four makaras are the four Makara means after the meat fish etc etc then so each one can retire with their partner specific partners and perform it in privacy perform the fifth ritual which is again they know this process so they know what mantras to be chanted and how long Etc they can do it in their privacy okay um wow so many questions right now why do these tantric sex techniques then work for the everyday human who reads it out of books because there must be some power in them in those formats in that technique that adds itself to an | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-51 | formats in that technique that adds itself to an orgasm I'm asking from a very City person point of view nothing to do with tantric practice uh so there are certain techniques that work to enhance the uh you know the sexual intimacy and pleasure and also but that is my so taking it out of the context is a uh it has another Fallout by the way so if you take it out of the context if you do these practices and just follow so the techniques that were developed for example for for ensuring that an orgasm doesn't come so easily until all the Puja and the anusthana ETC is completed during the process Etc if you take it out from the religious context where it is used in that sense you will end up becoming just the opposite thing that the religion abhorse which is you will become sort of a miniature version of a sex maniac you will not only flare up your chakras that control sex but you will go crazy about it and if that's what | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-52 | will go crazy about it and if that's what you want that's fine fair enough be clear in your head please go ahead and do what you want there's probably some Neuroscience in this that your body will release excessive dopamine in that moment maybe I I don't know that I can't comment on that but my my point is that the specificity of this is useful this is useful as a technique only if you remember the context in which is to be used so even at the peak of this technique when used correctly there is an orgasm but it's it's not an orgasm it is an internalized orgasm but initial stages it will not show so for people who practice this actually in a very very broad manner I'm defining it without going into more specifics so initial stages it is not going to work that you will not be able to retain the orgasm but eventually as the practice deepens Etc you are able to internalize the orgasm with a and it is at that Peak moment when | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-53 | with a and it is at that Peak moment when the Mantra attains maximum power without the Mantra all this is meaningless the Mantra attains power and the mantra Mantra becomes what is known as you reach a stage a specific technical thing that is used in text which is called the Mantra chaitanya which means the Mantra awakens it becomes an alive entity inside you Mantra is the deity that is the moment your connection is built in a second I'm I'm sorry if I'm crossing a line here but is it like when you orgasm in that ritual you have the vision of the deity uh more or less but more or less but it's not again just like any other ritual for that matter even a normal Puja Etc it is not going to happen in day one it is to practice okay with the right partner and all the other settings being set in place Etc but yes in that moment when the orgasm happens Etc uh in fact one of the things that people were more keen on | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-54 | one of the things that people were more keen on uh in those who are in this those who practice this kind of persona specifically for men so that they can somehow uh retain the orgasm or if possible even sort of you know go beyond the organs not have the orgasm why that is because orgasm calls but at the moment there's an orgasm there's this basic fall in the level of energy okay so one of the typical things that after an orgasm that can happen in general is that you feel sleepy you feel a little tired so then you want they did not want that fall of energy at any state even during this process so all these things that I'm talking about by the way makes only sense if you are doing the upasana if you take it out of the context then it's just whatever else you want to do I message your business how long is that vision of the deity is it like an orgasm for like three four seconds the vision of a deity if it if it's | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-55 | the vision of a deity if it if it's properly manifests uh your conception of time will go away you that is what is called a samadhi samadhi means you enter into a Zone where your normal sense of time your concentrated um a single pointed concentration on the uh on the deity or the Mantra is so deep that you lose track of time you lose track of everything I hear you um okay let's make this conversation much more basic because I think you've explained a very high level tantric practice we as a brand often get criticized for highlighting the power of semen okay um there is a movement called the nofap movement which is basically it's a worldwide thing where a lot of men have decided to retain semen why the Western perspective is that Muhammad Ali Tesla all these people used to retain semen and they felt benefits of it my opinion on it is that when you combine semen retention with yoga it's um more beneficial like that's where the actual benefits of | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-56 | more beneficial like that's where the actual benefits of retainings even come through uh please correct me if I'm wrong or if your opinion differs I feel like retailings even the practice can become very frustrating especially for a younger guy when you're a teenager full of hormones your system isn't set yet so maybe it's not even a practice for everyone and in saying that every single person whoever follows yoga whoever follows any sort of spiritual path always highlights the power of civil and celibus even even when you're talking about uh celibacy for women um you know staying away from sex is highlighted as a positive thing to help you on your yogic journey where do you want to begin this conversation from the last statement that's because uh that's correct so this is highlighted as a spiritual benefit in my opinion it is uh and I'm mind you or my perspective of all that I'm saying is only from the spiritual perspective of him not so uh outside of that context | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-57 | perspective of him not so uh outside of that context why somebody wants to wants to retain semen or why not I have no interest and I don't even know so I can't even comment on that movement what is the goal and name Etc up but there is a benefit to maintaining celibacy but it should not be taken to the level that okay that is the final goal that if I maintain celibacy everything is going to fall in place no you are going to get complete nuts you'll be crazy there is a selective uh release and a selective celibacy that has to be combined together so that it works out that is why our Dharma the Hindu Dharma says that there are four goals with the average person's life Dharma is one of them which is your sense of religion righteousness Etc uh Dharma Arthur which is your money that you are not the prosperity comma which is your lust and which is your desires and Etc and finally there is Moksha so if Kama was | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-58 | and finally there is Moksha so if Kama was something that you should be completely rejecting out of it so uh if you without karma there is no life in the first place okay so it is there it is the only thing that they are talking about basically fundamentally is that uh like water to give a simple example like water and like if you if that proverbial Newton's Apple follows flows downwards because the gravity is going to pull you down and things like that water flows from higher and to lower etcetera so if you indulge unrestricted in sexual activities it is more or less going to pull your powers energy is down and you will feel as a lack of as I said very simply speaking kind of tiredness any kind of spiritual practice at the initial stages has to make you a little bit more alert energetic less sleepy in fact one of the things that if you do a practice it is when you are sleeping that is when you are most unguarded by the way okay initial | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-59 | you are most unguarded by the way okay initial stages so higher level yogis actually they try to transcend even sleep very high level it's I'm not again these cannot be forced so my viewpoint in celibacy is that do not even force it but maintain a certain decorum and discipline in it don't run around everybody and everything that you feel like you know having a relationship with not like that have a basic Common Sense idea of how much you can indulge and how much you do not and this idea is by the way this uh the way I'm describing it is not something very unique or something I have thought about our texts will tell you that for a married man uh to have a physical relationship with his wife is also celibacy hmm nobody not any point are we asking people that you leave everything and become a sannyasi is this is there a specific text oh this is the general idea of celibacy that if you are a married man in The Vedic Vedic system why do you | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-60 | man in The Vedic Vedic system why do you think the Vedic Karma Kanda rituals mandate that 90 of the rituals is barred for an individual who is not married you cannot sit in a Vedic fire ritual proper Vedic fire ritual if you don't have legally married wife with you you have to buy it from it doesn't matter how good your meditation is how much yoga you can do and Etc and how much brahmacharya you follow you don't have a wife you're not married you cannot sit there do some spiritual processes start only after marriage uh if you were to practice yes but more or less marriage is a very balancing thing in my opinion uh and it's helpful in if if your partner is also you know of the spiritual mint of mind I mean obviously uh but coming back no she's not then you're bad luck there's nothing much I can say about that uh so coming back to the point but there is it is not to say that I am not again not | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-61 | is not to say that I am not again not to misconstrue what I'm trying to say I'm not saying that that means that you have unrestricted uh you know physical relationships no celibacy has its utility also it builds up certain power during that limited phase of time when you are following it so my recommendation to people who are actually in the path of any kind of spiritual practices that and I I deal more with people who are into the worship of deities so suppose you are into an anusthana of a deity so you take a you make a for 10 days or 15 days or 21 days so you follow limited period of celibacy during that time the only reason is that when you follow celibacy and you do that practice it helps building up power inside you however power is only useful if you have the capacity to digest it if you don't digest it one of the other things that happens for example you start doing a lot of Mantra sadhana for any deity certainly okay | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-62 | Mantra sadhana for any deity certainly okay with no practice beforehand you start four or five hours of mantra japer today the first thing that you you are going to see after some days is the tremendous increase in lust tremendous increase in Anger these are the two leaks to which the power is going to get out of you because your system simply does not have the capacity to absorb it you can eat only that much food as much as your stomach can digest other things are going to get vomited out this is the spiritual vomiting that happens you will end up having all sorts of you know running around everybody physical relationships unrestricted and then anger unrestricted these two things the balancing how much of a spiritual power a particular individual can take through the practice and how much of a uh you know a physical relationship or any an anger by the way is equally dangerous it just in a second your power whatever you have accumulated is also going to go out this is where | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-63 | accumulated is also going to go out this is where the role of a mentor a guru is so important because you will take a lot of time to figure out that what is it that works for you a good Mentor a good Guru who can handle you and I'm not saying and I don't mean that you know there are many organizations where you go and there are 1000 people getting an initiation and then after that for 10 years you have no clue where your Guru is and where you are sitting at home and doing practice no I mean somebody who actually hand holds and guides you step by step sort of at least and tells you that what to do and what not to do so there is no idea like this initially uh and it should not even be encouraged that right now from this age become completely celibate forget everything it is going to make you some spiritual Superstar nothing of that sort is going to happen what do you think of masturbation same same same principle that | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-64 | you think of masturbation same same same principle that happens in celibacy same principle so if somebody is masturbating and he's uh practicing some spiritual same thing there's a leakage of energy that is going to happen so whatever I talked about right now in the course of a physical relationship Etc remove the word physical relationship add masturbation same thing there's no difference it is not going to make any other good or bad or anything and I'm not talking even for a moralistic perspective I don't care what anybody does in their privacy but um unrestricted yes definitely it is going to interfere with your process with your sadhana at a higher stage and one of the biggest disadvantages of unrestricted sexual encounters or masturbation for that matter is that um as I say in the peak point of concentration you should be like this when you are sitting for your Japan or yoga or meditation or whatever at that Peak moment you should be able to forget the whole world even if that is for | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-65 | to forget the whole world even if that is for two seconds then it is working for you what happens with unrestricted uh either whether physical encounters unrestricted sexual encounters or excessive masturbation is that it is at that Peak moment that your chitta which is the you know kind of the the mind that has Impressions it is going to throw up all sorts of images and immediately it is going to break your concentration very minor thing but your practice is already gone you can pretend to the outside world that you are a great Yogi and you are doing a lot of practice but your inside your practice is not working so that is the problem on the other hand if you completely say that oh from today no no physical no sex no masturbation no nothing you have to become I don't know what uh two days you'll go crazy neither is Mantra is going to work neither the practice is going to work neither this is going to work so that balancing is important and we live in that kind of an | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-66 | is important and we live in that kind of an age where to sell a toothpaste you have to put two skimpily clad women on the advertisement where is your celebrity going to come from yeah the society we live in stimulates us to shoot a load off that is where you have to maintain that Common Sense use common sense and balance and no point in the spiritual journey are you to give up your common sense you'll end up becoming a fool yeah yeah also I mean this is just a personal thought here not learned from a book probably learned from experiences my thought is that if a spiritual truth does not make sense to you and your subjective reality no one's asking you to accept it yeah so if this is against your thoughts don't accept it and I am not even judgmental of people who say by the way just because I'm sure that a lot of people will see that there may be traditional people who have uh celibacy they put into a very high pedestal and not being | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-67 | put into a very high pedestal and not being judgmental and all that you do whatever you think is right for you but if you're asking me this is how you should approach in this age initially and the impulse celibacy comes naturally by the way yeah that I was just like literally a second before you said that I was thinking about the same thought that your libido if you're involved in a yogic life a spiritual life a tantric life yes uh Your Lust settles down without any effort yes after a certain point of time it will there are since we are on the topic there are two other factors by the way you have to remember here uh I think yesterday we were discussing about pitrus ancestors were stuck in a pit through loka who are not able to move forward very often in many cases uh an excessive amount of lust in an individual whereas they may be practicing everything well uh is basically a projection of the impulses of those pitrus and if it | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-68 | of the impulses of those pitrus and if it is the case and that can be analyzed through you know various uh looking at the configuration of the planets at the time they're born and various other ways of finding out that is the case then the only way is to actually perform rituals in the right shetra in the right place so that the ancestors get Reborn and then it causes when you define it in whatever way you want but it then it has an effect that slowly that libido or that excessive amount of so normal lust is one thing normal lust everybody has but it goes beyond everything all rationality etcetera then it also comes down you know things calm down a bit that is one the other is with age also libido kind of can taper of um for a person who is genuinely spiritual yes that is what is happening for somebody who is not in the spiritual path it's up to them I mean no judgment on what they are doing or not doing | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-69 | no judgment on what they are doing or not doing it's completely their life their choice but spiritually this um uh so pitrus are one of the things by the way that is there in quite a few cases I've seen people who face sudden bursts of whether it's excessive amount of lust or whether it's excessive anger or certain uh and they'd also manifest a certain blockages in life in various um stages etc those okay and if that is there if there's a normal amount of lust then uh to look at it as a manageable thing the other problem that happens it tapers off of it on its own it will in time okay don't don't make it as a big thing in your head that's the other problem that happens with a lot of spiritual people I am not able to get out of lust so you feel guilty about it that is far worse than actually you know indulging in a physical relationship sex or masturbation or anything after that the guilt trip that happens to some | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-70 | after that the guilt trip that happens to some people that okay oh I I could not maintain celibacy that is not going to help you that is far worse um um intense I don't think the internet in general has a piece like this anyway definitely not on a written blog right I'm glad that we could do this on a podcast don't have any more questions with regard to this particular episode also while we're shooting this in real time this is the fifth episode we've recorded so yeah right before this we recorded a Hindi episode also fantastic and three epic English episodes yesterday and I still feel there's 15 more podcasts that we we have to cover so thank you yeah and just one point Sunday job go for it because we were discussing about go for it it's such a beautiful way in which certain concepts are represented in our in the Hindu culture for example there is the famous story of Lord Shiva who destroys kamdeva okay who's the god of last | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-71 | destroys kamdeva okay who's the god of last and last and love so somebody tells him that you Shiva is meditating okay Shiva is uh in deep meditation is not even aware of anything so somebody tells him Shiva must have a son that son can destroy nasura Asura is one of those negative powerful negative entities only a son born out of Shiva but he is in meditation and in meditation in the deepest meditation is not even aware of the world he's not even aware of any physical existence nothing where is last going to come so they bring this and they tell him that please do something so the story says that he fires arrows okay and those arrows when they hit somebody uh that's when the last desire arises so he comes and he disturbs he does something there is Shiva is in deepest meditation suddenly there is this slight Awakening of stunning of Desire inside him and he opens his eyes and he's Furious who is it that destroy disturbs his meditation so | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-72 | who is it that destroy disturbs his meditation so he opens his third eye Shiva Sada is the thing okay and he looks at kamdeva and he's born to ashes straight away okay burn to ashes now there's a huge problem if Karma if desire is gone to how will the world run world is finished without desire okay then the goddess Parvati she comes in and she requests him that uh that no you can't do that do something because otherwise everything is finished whole world runs on desire everything this there is nobody who doesn't have desire desires are there not only by the way by desire we always think that it is last but it could be your your body has a desire for food when you don't eat for a long time your you have a physical pain your body has a desire for going to a state where the pain is not there it's ingrained in you it's in your cells not just your mind desire is what runs it's the engine it's the glue that is making | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-73 | it's the engine it's the glue that is making this world run continuously and there's nothing wrong in it just like there's nothing wrong in anything if it is correctly understood and applied so then Shiva says okay I will revive him but without a physical body so here comes Karma Deva he's born reborn again and he has no physical body and by the way this whole episode happens in kamakhya she is the goddess of all this and all these things now this is such a beautiful idea so he here we have a calm there with a lot of Desire who has no physical form what it means is that desire can come in any shape lust is born here from here it enters and then it spreads everywhere so because he doesn't have a physical form that means that he can manifest in any form anywhere and he cannot be destroyed something that doesn't have a physical form is also kind of omnipresent and omnipotent so this beautiful idea comes to us through this kind of a story | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-74 | idea comes to us through this kind of a story how do you take care of the calm devathas everywhere then you follow a basic Common Sense discipline and you don't fight it too much it is on its own it will go and yes certain devathas since we are on the topic uh certain date is for example Lord Shiva and getting a blessings from Shiva is not so easy by the way he is he can't take the mind to a state where uh Kama is not needed Beyond lust but it is not something that is to be forced neither something that is you know artificially imposed on its own it happens until the time it happens one follows a basic Common Sense basic uh standard discipline so you follow a limited amount of uh you know Indulgence in last uh and then there are phases you deny do not go too much into it neither you run away completely from it that balance is important balance well Integrated Life along with the sadhana and the practices that you do | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-75 | with the sadhana and the practices that you do eventually will lead the path for you and automatically whatever has to be left from your system will go away fighting is not useful thank you thank you so much great learning from you looking forward to meeting you in person again and you're in Mumbai the next time yeah thank you so much thanks namaste so that was the episode for today we've done an additional episode with rajashi sir in Hindi that's going to be out very soon I highly recommend that if you understand Hindi you should check out a Hindi podcast there's certain kinds of content pieces that can only come out better in Hindi please check it out it's over on our Hindi Channel make sure you also check out level super mind which is our meditation app it's for beginners intermediates and advanced meditators so if you're looking for a deep dive into your own mind a deep dive into your own spiritual journey level super mind is where it's at I've linked it down | faroosyWwAs |
46aa0e2fe8df-76 | mind is where it's at I've linked it down below and for more episodes like this make sure you follow TRS on Spotify every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world one last request for you guys is to tell me what else you'd like to see so speak about so it's definitely going to return on the runway show I genuinely intend on visiting him in Bengal possibly doing a visit to the kamakhya Devi Temple in Assam but generally I'd like to know from you guys which are the topics you all would like to see covered on this podcast let me know in the comment section down below and keep supporting DRS [Music] | faroosyWwAs |
f70607433132-0 | the Delhi University textbooks actually calls bhagat saying jatin does all these people as revolutionary terrorists the word terrorist is used for bhagat Singh and the descendants of bhagat Singh had protested saying this was a term that was coined by our Colonial Masters and today after you know we are still using terrorists for them then around 12th of January 1948 when Gandhi made his call that if the Indian government does not give 50 crores or so to Pakistan as promised he will go on a fast and to death at the same time when Pakistani forces were incur they were incursions into Kashmir that is when these people said this guy needs to be bumped off because you know he is a national security threat at a time when Pakistan is attacking us why do we need to be so virtue saying we promised you 50 crores we will give you and they are going to use that money to arm themselves against us Vikram sambad is primarily known for his work in | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-1 | sambad is primarily known for his work in the field of History he's a PhD in history he's written books on the Indian Freedom Movement he's written books on Veer savarkarji he's spoken about Shaheed bhagat Singh and today we have all these topics covered and more we talked about the Indian Freedom Movement in our history textbooks in school but I do not feel that that's the way you should learn about Real History because a lot of history is hidden from us this podcast has always been about unveiling hidden history and if we're talking about the Indian Freedom Movement please understand these other aspects of it as well this one was a fiery inspiring conversation with Vikram somebody is going to be back on the runway show for now enjoy this one for more episodes like this make sure you follow the Run video on Spotify every episode's available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world because we're a Spotify exclusive before I let you slip into this episode I just | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-2 | before I let you slip into this episode I just want to remind you that my meditation and yoga app level supermind is now live on the playlist on the App Store we want to make this an India to the world Journey a world-class Indian product should make it big on the world stage so whether you're an Indian an NRI or a foreign National watching this particular podcast I highly recommend you check out level supermind and for now this is our India special episode with Vikram sampath foreign [Music] welcome to the ranveer show how are you thank you ranveer great pleasure to be with you I'm good how are you I'm great we were just talking about how history is taking over the Indian internet my theory is that a lot of young people kind of are a little bit pissed with the education system for teaching us um some wrong history some irrelevant history and focusing on topics that actually don't matter in the long term when there's a whole bunch of topics that didn't make it | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-3 | a whole bunch of topics that didn't make it our history books yeah and people like yourself are putting it out there putting the truth out there whether it's the freedom struggle whether it's ancient Indian history so that is my assumption uh that's my theory that's why I believe history is kind of taking off on the Indian internet you're perfectly right because I think I I also see you know in my interactions across the country I just have a new book out bravehearts of Bharat and for that I'm on these promotional tours everywhere I'm interacting constantly with young people and this is the constant ground that they bring to the table that you know we've been fed the wrong facts we've not been told the truth our history has been so delhi-centric large parts of India don't get featured in it uh we've always been told we are a nation of losers we don't really know what are the stories of Valor courage if you're around as a civilization uh the only pre-bronzira | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-4 | around as a civilization uh the only pre-bronzira civilization which is still around there must have been some uh courage also that we showed our ancestors showed so why are these uh you know kept away from us the Freedom Movement a very linear simplistic monochromatic view of that all this is something I think that the young youths today are talking about and social media is helping them amplify that there are people of course the pros and cons of that are there of a lot of misinformation coming up but uh I think it gives the youth a lot of platform to get information and also disseminate the information proudly which they have probably got through various sources yeah why do you think uh it's delhi-centric first and secondly the question is you said something about us being taught a linear version of the freedom struggle yeah I didn't even know that there's another version honestly like what do you mean well that famous Bollywood song which I think is dimmed into our Consciousness all the | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-5 | I think is dimmed into our Consciousness all the time that it's only I mean like a Attenborough film you know frame to frame it goes that it's the non-violent movement the Mars movement that uh Gandhi and the Congress launched which was great in its own way uh it you know brought out that sense of nationalism and galvanized people towards freedom but you also had an armed uh you know resistance it was a violent armed resistance which was an unending chain from 1857 uh all the way till 1946 when you had the naval Mutiny In This Very city of Bombay Mumbai now so uh and again another topic that's not spoken about in tooni history books the naval Mutiny yeah and look at the use of the term ranveer I mean the the 1857 Uprising was called the sipoi Mutiny by the British as a very desperate charging thing you know is rebelled here and there and we crushed it it was Veer savarkar who called it the first war of Indian independence | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-6 | who called it the first war of Indian independence uh ideally the naval Mutiny should have been called the last war of Indian independence but we still call it a mutiny Mutiny against whom the rulers where they are rulers no so then why do you want to call it a mutiny it should have been called the it was a last nail in the coffin of the British Raj but we still perpetuate that so from 1857 to 1946 this unending chain of revolutionaries who also LED another alternative story of our freedom struggle that is never told to us our you know uh young people today and I think people are asking questions on Delhi centricity uh I mean anybody could go to the ncrt book which is up uh you know freely downloadable on their website uh you have three chapters on the Mughal Dynasty you have lots of references to the uh you know obscure dynasties of Delhi the Lord these and kiljis and tuglax whose contribution to this nation I don't know | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-7 | whose contribution to this nation I don't know is probably minimal barring a few structures here and there of architecture but the Chola is the mighty cholas who ruled for Thousand Years the vijayanagar Empire the satavahanas rashtrakutas pallavas kadambas gangas chalukyas the vodairs our homes our homes the Northeast is a complete black hole if you ask a young child today can you name three a home rulers the homes ruled for 600 years when even if you ask a big child today Child come on ranveer tell me another podcast on idiot name three cholas other than Raja Raja and rajendra yeah these are the only two I know honestly because the homes I know the Dynasty's names yeah you know this is the issue I've also grown up in the same India that you have and we've had the same history textbooks and if you want to truly learn about history it's all about doing the research yourself correct correct which is why I enjoy my job right now I just keep getting the | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-8 | enjoy my job right now I just keep getting the unpacked like aspects of things I've not learned and that I wish to learn yeah yeah um but I've got a I think let's begin this conversation by talking about the 1946 Mutiny and the reason I ask you that is I was once in a room full of really well established CEOs and they were asking me Bollywood gossip because they know I interact with volume I was like that's cool but do you know that the history we're taught in books is not complete it's extremely fragmented and then those guys are like like what so you know they don't even believe that we've been taught for augmented history yeah and I brought up the 1946 Mutiny because it was brought up on the show and people were shocked they were like I can't even believe this happened this is the first time hearing about it and these are like established CEOs of multinationals wow wow so there you go let's start them prove my point let's | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-9 | you go let's start them prove my point let's start there yeah well you know uh I think the best proof of this is uh Clement Atlee who is the prime minister of Britain when uh India got her independence in 1947 he comes to India after Independence around 1952 or 53 and he goes to uh various places he also goes to Bengal and there there is a uh you know the the governor of Bengal who is also the acting chief justice uh of the high court there uh funny bhushan chakraborty Justice chakraborty uh he's his host and chakraborty asks him uh you know why did you people leave us and got us uh Freedom so quickly because no one expected at that time that India would become free so soon and so he asked him what were the reasons for you to leave us and go away so quickly and uh chakraborty notes it in his Memoirs whatever athlete talks about and actually very clearly is supposed to have mentioned that it was | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-10 | clearly is supposed to have mentioned that it was the heroics of the Indian national Army netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and ultimately all of it inspiring the Mutiny as they called it in the Navy in the Army uh you know units in different parts of India the British were petrified of a repeat of the 1857 uh you know episode that there will be a bhagavat uh an uprising or Insurrection in the British Indian army and so he said that was the reason we left the country and went and chakraborty is supposed to have egged him on a little more and said what about the uh you know quit India movement and the whole non-violent movement of uh Gandhi and how what was uh that impact on your final decision to leave this country and go and actually is supposed to have smirk then said minimal that those were his words are not mine so actually it's coming straight from the horse's mouth there was no need for him to be so condescending uh or you know disparaging | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-11 | be so condescending uh or you know disparaging of anybody uh because India had already got freedom it was a candid conversation that the two were having uh five six years after India's Freedom uh so I think right from the British horse's mouth we get to know that it was the heroics of the Ina the naval Mutiny where so many sailors uh you know decided to um you know go in an uprising In This Very city of Mumbai and that spread across to so many other units both in the British Indian army as well as the Navy now mind you when the second world war ended they were about two and a half million soldiers in the British Indian army out of which probably just 10 000 were British the rest of them were Indians Indian origin so the Revolutionary is their entire strategy and we're all through was to create this Insurrection even if our 10 of this huge number could be seduced to patriotism and they could switch over to the side of liberating your country then | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-12 | over to the side of liberating your country then the edifice of the Raj would collapse because they were standing here only on the might of the army uh the British uh you know Army so I think these people understood that and created that Insurrection in the Army which is what as I said they did not want 1857 to repeat by in kanpur and all those other places you had Mass mathem massacres of Europeans men women and children why didn't this happen earlier why didn't this not happen earlier I think that constantly they were all these attempts right from 19 early 1900s the gadar movement uh which was a transcontinental movement between Canada San Francisco with the kumagata Maru episode there all of this was exactly attempts to do this very thing so the idea was very clear in all these people's minds that this is the only way to liberate the country because you know the weak point of the British government and how to get them uh going and if you actually see very dispassionately | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-13 | uh going and if you actually see very dispassionately all the reforms or the uh you know anything that the British did to give in more to the Indian demands were preceded by Bloody revolutionary uh you know incidents whether it was the model inventory reforms the uh Montague chansford reforms the government of India act and eventually Freedom all of that was preceded by uh as I said violent uprisings so I think this was something that the revolutionaries understood they tried uh several times but for various reasons it didn't succeed I think netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and the country owes uh you know all its gratitude to him uh because he was the Catalyst who probably culminated the dreams of all these other revolutionaries who had slogged so hard for so many decades and failed unfortunately you want to highlight the actual incident a little bit which one uh the 1946 incident so the the 1946 Mutiny in uh which started in Bombay I'm saying Bombay because that's what it was called then | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-14 | saying Bombay because that's what it was called then so there were lots of sailors who initially for you know uh the ratings that they had and so on they were denied that and so on so that is why they uh there was a protest on the deck uh you know in the ships here uh which did you know they went on Hunger Strike they started protesting and so on but then slowly that entire thing uh grew into a larger demand uh you know for Liberation and carrying placards of uh Long Live netaji and photographs of netaji both these people went all over uh you know the city uh on marches and common people started joining them in large numbers and as I said the the flame that was lit in Bombay spread to different places even South India Karachi jabal poor different parts of India and you know by then the Ina trials had begun in Delhi uh the Red Fort and that too had created a lot of sympathy uh for the soldiers who had fought | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-15 | sympathy uh for the soldiers who had fought in the Ina so I think it was a it was like a bomb that was ticking at that time and that's what shocked the British and scared them Beyond doubt you know what sucks is that in our history books yeah the event preceding Indian independence that's written about is World War II so this is 1945 the British army was tired Britain itself was tired and that's why 1947 they decided to go they don't highlight immediate causes like this yes I question why why is this not there in most history textbooks that we read in school that's a long answer to that but uh you know I think after Independence uh the the people who came to power uh I think they wanted to ensure that a certain uh Viewpoint about the freedom struggle itself was highlighted and if anyone who is not part of that so-called mainstream of the non-violent movement they would not get its due uh and so nehru yes you can say it this | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-16 | uh and so nehru yes you can say it this isn't uh television yes that's why people are gravitating away from television on to YouTube No I don't want to about him but I think some of these strategic you know and Machiavellian uh uh you know uh attempts that he made to to kind of suppress all uh opposing viewpoints he was called a great Democrat and a liberal and all that but then the stifling of voices the freedom of expression even the major sultanpuri uh you know languishing in jail for one and a half years because he wrote a poem in which he called nehru Hitler or something like that something has innocuous as that and we say he's a you know Paragon of freedom of speech I think that's a little far-fetched but be it as it may but uh you know the the narrative that was Set uh was that we need to highlight only the non-violent movement and the role of the Congress in it and anything that doesn't come within | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-17 | the Congress in it and anything that doesn't come within this framework that should not get its due in the history it should be mentioned but it should be in passing uh so ranveer even now you know in 2016 if you remember they were uh people who were the descendants of bhagat Singh uh and you know who wrote to the hrd minister then smriti Irani that the Delhi University textbooks and also I think the upsc books or whatever written by this bipin Chandra Mukherjee and all these people actually calls bhagat saying that's all these people as revolutionary terrorists the word terrorist is used for bhagat Singh in the books and the descendants of bhagat Singh had protested saying this was a term that was coined by our Colonial Masters and today after you know we are still using terrorists for them so imagine a young child who's reading that and at the same time on television you are seeing uh what's happening in Kashmir or you know all the the | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-18 | in Kashmir or you know all the the what terrorism and terrorist has a connotation today they'll equate that to bhagat Singh do you think this is because people like bipin Chandra and Uzi they grew up in a another version of India and they were probably kind of uh influenced a lot by the history yeah written in our books probably in the 60s 70s and 80s do you think that's the reason these were part of what I would call as establishmentarian historians who told the line that uh you know the dispensation the political dispensation of the time wanted them to you know around the same time there was a big project uh to write immediately after Freedom a lot of these people were still alive some of the Freedom Fighters so interviewing them capturing an entire history of the freedom struggle was something that historian the celebrated historian RC majumdar wanted to do and the government had initially commissioned him that project as well but he made it very clear that they go I'm not | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-19 | he made it very clear that they go I'm not going to do some you know Gandhi eulogy in this I am going to be very critical of the man and the man had lot of failures uh in the manner in which he conducted we probably would have got uh Freedom several years or decades before but for his flip-flop policies that he did all the time and he was RC majumdar wanted to bring all this out so from a commissioned role as the official chronicler of the freedom struggle RC majumdar was summarily thrown out and a bureaucrat who had nothing to do with history or modern Indian history he was I think an expert of medieval Turkish uh history or whatever that guy was put in charge of writing the official history of the freedom struggle by the government of India um Mr nehru's government and so it became very clear to all the other historians that what line we need to tow if we don't toe the line you tell us we will lose our jobs | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-20 | the line you tell us we will lose our jobs we lose uh all the patronage all the awards all the fellowships all these things that academics look for so you tend to tow a certain line there was no social media there was no ranveer then who could give them give the alternate voices a platform like this so I think that is why most of them followed this and that has been subliminally it's I think come down in our Consciousness after so many you know this is a problem all over the world when it comes to different histories yeah I think the older Generations have been taught one version of it and when it's challenged by alternative viewpoints uh it's often met with a lot of criticism like they call these kind of viewpoints really false conspiracy theories but I think you know you need to lay out all the information and see it extremely objectively uh kind of emotionlessly yeah and I'm asking asking you the next question from an objective perspective right I think we've had on | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-21 | an objective perspective right I think we've had on the show uh very often like we may have done 20 30 episodes with them uh the one pitch that he keeps making on the show is that the world of geopolitics even historically has affected our viewpoint on Indian history as well which basically means that the world's power was centered in the western block during World War One during World War II after World War II it used to be big daddy Britain which became Big Daddy America yeah uh and he kind of pitched some very strong points which makes you kind of think that maybe America and Britain at that time have affected the kind of narratives we've gotten about our history as well yeah and probably even now yeah uh in terms of even how the world looks at jawaharlal nehru and gandhiji's branding yes which has been a big part of uh our minds and lots of people think of the Indian Freedom struggle they'll visualize uh Mahatma Gandhi yeah yeah as I said there are lots | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-22 | Gandhi yeah yeah as I said there are lots of people who visualize Veer savarkar and bhagat Singh as well yeah but it's primarily Mahatma Gandhi and this is very intense branding which has been strengthened because of support from those geopolitical Powers right um my question is why is it is it because some kind of promises were made before India got independence uh you know did they promise jawaharlal nehru and Mahatma Gandhi that you guys will be given the uh you know opportunity to be the leaders of this free country is it is what do you think as a historian I uh because there isn't any documented evidence around it there are some secret files which a lot of people talk about which are out of bound just to think of it even all the mount baton papers are completely classified we don't even know the last Viceroy and the role of Edwina Mount baton what happened how did she negotiate or come into the entire conversation [Laughter] well | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-23 | or come into the entire conversation [Laughter] well that's what as I said uh I'm unfortunately uh a historian who will sit and look at what is the evidence for this and I don't want to go with Bazar gossip or insinuations but yeah so there were a lot of things that were going on and I mean nehru is also in famously said supposed to have said once that he's the last Englishman the the brown sahib so I think a lot of people who also came to par uh you know not only not I'm not talking of the political power but the bureaucracy the people who uh who held uh the the power immediately after Freedom several of them were part of the larger collaborator gang when the British Raj was uh you know uh in par so there they themselves or their children or grandchildren and all of these people became historians became uh you know bureaucrats became intellectuals one example I can give is of This Man Called yashpal who very | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-24 | give is of This Man Called yashpal who very clearly there was a there was a paper that came out somewhere an intelligence report when the British were leaving uh the country they very clearly said yashpal is our man so please take good care of him when we leave and yeshpal was the man who's supposed to betrayed the revolutionaries and also caused the uh you know leaked out the secret about Chandra shekhar Azad which got him to kill himself and the revolutionaries were so livid with him for being the mole amidst them that they wanted to have him killed and so the British jailed him and put him in jail to save him from the revolutionaries and he also got married in jail probably the few people who have a honeymoon in jail so the British were very good with people who uh you know who were on their side they would take very good care of them that's why when today people say savarkar was a British stooge and this and that that is the very | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-25 | British stooge and this and that that is the very fact that the British would take care of those who had sold themselves to them that is documented part of history and after Independence yashpal becomes one of the most loved intellectuals of the country he gets several Awards I hit the Academy Award his uh and he writes books in Hindi literature on his own you know blowing his own trumpet about how great uh uh you know revolutionary he was and so on and that is something that gets perpetuated uh you know uh in the people's minds too and he he has uh quite a few nasty things to say even about savarkar and all that so you know so that as I said a lot of collaborators who later became part of the new firmament ensured that a lot of Truth was suppressed and kept under the carpet and we're facing the consequences of that today but today I think the time has changed it's a Information Age light is the best disinfectant now anybody | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-26 | Age light is the best disinfectant now anybody who throws light on uh the suppressed facts I think and the youth really want to lap up to you know what what is it that has been hidden from us and right from the time of Adam and Eve I think the forbidden fruit has been the tastiest thing right so everyone wants whatever is forbidden from you that always is very tasty welcome to the ranveer show I'm gonna ask you a little bit about yashpal uh what happened to him later on did he die peacefully yeah a very celebrated author uh celebrated literature as I said he was he won the sahitya Academy Award his books were prescribed as textbooks and uh you know learning material and all of that and I think he must have even got some Padma and all these different Awards so yeah many people like that who who wrote The Narrative of free India they decided uh you know what information comes to the Next Generation how do we frame that who is to | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-27 | Next Generation how do we frame that who is to be excluded who is to be demonized who is to be eulogized everything was choreographed and the Western Powers also were you know you had to show the British in a nice way uh that uh they were I mean peacefully we kept asking quit India quit India one day they just got bored and said okay hello I will quit India and go it was not so simple as that you so I think somewhere you needed to show this uh as a very nice it's a great uh as I said Oscar winning movie uh attenborough's movie which gets all the global eyeballs it shows India in a nice uh image that we were very non-violent we didn't have very peacefully we got our freedom and also it shows our Colonial Masters in good light so it was a win-win situation for both and that's why in the process so many people who actually sacrificed their lives and everything by Leading the armed struggle their names till today will be | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-28 | the armed struggle their names till today will be dubbed as revolutionary terrorists and not as Freedom Fighters um like Sardar udham saying yes have you seen the movie of course my God what a movie dude yeah yeah and how many of us knew about him I don't even think too many people watch the film it was a fantastic film it's Vicky kosher's best film um I met sujit sarkar the director of this woman I said that dude thank you for making that that's how history should be shown in its darkest tourist form and he said thank you he was grateful but there was a part of him which definitely at least that's what I sensed and that's what I heard I think somewhere he wanted more people to watch it you know and I highly recommend that dark kind of sad film to every viewer watching this you'll get a real emotional viewpoint on the Indian Freedom struggle from the people who actually used or had to use violence as a mean to um help | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-29 | had to use violence as a mean to um help the Indian Freedom struggle right I had never heard of Sardar udham Singh till that movie came out yeah why sure you're not alone there are millions like you who didn't know about him and and how many people have he not heard of like thousands of them ranveer I think in the course of my own research on Veer savarkar the kind of names that came along uh right from vasudev balwan ke who was called the father of Indian revolutionaries and Maharashtra produced so many of them the chafekar brothers we saw his elder brother Baba Rouser Bengal had all I mean all of them around the same time and when savarkar goes to London the kind of people whom he Associates with their shamji Krishna Verma Madame bhikaji Kama in Mumbai or in Delhi you have a bhikaji Kama Road or a bikaji Kama place but those who are there also don't know who the hell this bhikaji | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-30 | there also don't know who the hell this bhikaji Kama is is it a man woman most of often but she was someone who went and unfurled the first flag of Indian independence in 1907 in the international socialist conference in Stuttgart in Germany and the the flag itself was designed by savakar and him Chandra Das kanungo of the anushilan samiti so people like this whom we have zero clue of MPT acharya VVS Ayer sukh Sagar that you know lots of them like that umat road in Pune but then how many even in Pune know the details of who this man is of course Ram Prasad Bismillah Khan and them you know of the kakori case uh then bhagat Singh sukdev rajguru rash bihari Bose who formed the Indian national Army and later invited netaji Subhash Chandra Bose as I said the culmination of this long train the gadar movement itself in which started with Punjab and the Sikhs the there who joined then with this and | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-31 | Sikhs the there who joined then with this and then it goes across continents to through Europe to Germany then from there to uh you know California San Francisco and then uh even Canada and you know the the long train where they were trying to Ally with Germany to ensure Germany invades British India and liberates uh India of course whether we would have become a German Colony that's another question but uh you know a lot of these uh Heroes uh who operated across countries and so on at a time when there was no communication channels of WhatsApp and all of that like we have today but still the jazbah of uh wanting to liberate your country just mind you I mean poorna swaraj was something that the Congress coined in 1930 right with the Declaration for purness but the revolutionaries including sabarkar when he did his first uh student bonfire of foreign clothes in 1905 gave the call for complete Liberation the revolution is one not asking for piecemeal negotiations like the Congress was that you | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-32 | piecemeal negotiations like the Congress was that you know give us a little bit here and there Dominion status all they wanted complete freedom for the country as way back as 1905 which I think uh says a lot about what the objectives of the two groups were as they were working what did you think of the movie oh it was excellent movie I think it really left me deeply moved and I agree with you it's probably Wiki kosher's best and shujit's best as well I wish more of these movies get done on many of this so much drama there's so much all that Bollywood wants I think is there in the stories of all these people you know they've shown the jallian Malabar Massacre as it should be shown yes which is deeply violent deeply heartless yeah um we've read about it in our books but the way they visually shown it in that movie it moves everyone it'll stay with you forever correct they've shown people's hands being blown off yeah your kids dying yes it's | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-33 | being blown off yeah your kids dying yes it's it really makes you think about the truth that sometimes words are not able to capture as well as visuals true very true very true which is why we probably need a lot more movies about people like Visa worker yeah bhagat Singh yeah you know everyone's seen the Ajay devgan bhagat Singh movie and that's my reference point as well uh I remember in 1996 or 97 there was a virus avakar movie also which my mom took me for it's one of my earliest memories in life um it's I think it's got Anu Kapoor if I'm not mistaken he plays with some Malayalam film that's dubbed in Hindi and I highly recommend people watch it because they've shown a very um raw image of him uh they've shown him in kalapani which was the jail in uh the animals yeah um these two make the prisoners do a uh oil extraction punishment yeah I mean I'd love for you to expand on it as well | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-34 | I'd love for you to expand on it as well but it's basically like a sort of a torture technique where they make you extract oil from seeds uh and then when he doesn't comply he doesn't give them information about the uh Indian Revolution they actually tie him upside down on the uh extraction device and make sure his head rubs against the ground and he gets dragged along with the machine and his body is used to actually extract the oil from the seeds yeah and I saw this as a four-year-old man wow yeah I was just like whoa what has gone on in this country before I got here but it gave you a very dark image of the nymph Freedom struggle and I'm sure there's so many things that don't even make it to the world of films yeah which is why now I need to bring you into the actual meat of this episode you've written an entire book on view savarkar history books don't mention very casual random mentions you hear about him when you live in | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-35 | random mentions you hear about him when you live in a city like Mumbai yeah but um not as much as you should there's a lot of gen Z's we have watching the show teenagers who watch this show what's the truth about Veer savarkar that Indians should know well here was a man who started India's first organized secret society which was called the abhinav Bharat initially Mitra Mela which later became abhinav Bharat he led the first ever student bonfire against foreign clothes when we talk of bonfire we only think of Gandhi in the you know bonfire of clothes but in 1905 as a student of Ferguson College in Pune this man had done that for which he even got rusticated from college uh and then five years that he was in London um as a law student he led literally the Revolutionary movement sitting there and got all these other people I mentioned earlier who were there with him shyam ji Krishna Verma and all of them into this entire movement and wrote | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-36 | all of them into this entire movement and wrote this seminal book on the you know after researching British documents on the 1857 Uprising gave it a respectability by calling it the first war of Indian independence and that book ranveer became literally the the bhagavad-gita for all future evolutionaries whether it was you know bhagat Singh who got the second edition of it published or even Raj bihari Bose and netaji Subhash Chandra Bose who got it translated into Tamil and Japanese and all kinds of languages and how a revolution needs to be structured the entire prescription was there in that book so someone who had contributed so much and 12 long years in kalapani two years in Indian Mainland jail so 14 years of imprisonment and then 13 years after he comes out he's kept under captivity and house arrest in ratnagiri in Maharashtra where he could not even go out of the borders of ratnagiri so just imagine a young man who is prom you know so wanting to | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-37 | young man who is prom you know so wanting to become a barrister goes to London is caught by the British and unfairly tried and 27 years of his life are snuffed out his degrees are snatched away from him the law degree the graduation degree from Ferguson so on paper he was just a metric pass his entire family property confiscated and and so when he and his elder brother go away to kalapani the the women of the family they literally had to beg uh you know to eek out a livelihood they didn't even utensils were taken away in uh auctions literally brought to the streets uh so this is the sacrifice not only of him but also his entire family his wife his sister-in-law and all of them yeshuahini and all these people and so easily today sitting in air-conditioned rooms people passed judgment saying he was a traitor he was a you know stooge and all of that which I think is grossly unfair what is their argument I mean the | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-38 | grossly unfair what is their argument I mean the fact that is mentioned that he wrote Mercy petitions too uh buy out his uh you know Liberty from jail and so on which I think is a is a flawed argument because these were petitions with that commonly a lot of political prisoners wrote those days it was not something that exclusively he wrote and in my book uh the first volume of the two volume by I have mentioned all the petitions in Toto there were six or seven that he wrote so just like you can have a lawyer today you can have a bail application a lot of people used to file up you know these petitions which were applications and in those petitions uh your viewers can actually read those and there's nowhere an apology uh in fact the British records themselves say that when they came one man called Reginald Cradock who comes all the way to interview him he in his official jotting says I interviewed Mr savarkar and he shows no regret | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-39 | interviewed Mr savarkar and he shows no regret or repentance or remorse for what he has done so why would the British want to write that about him if he he could have prostrated and said so but he didn't do that so and then most of these petitions he was also filing on behalf of other younger people uh you know young revolutionaries who didn't know English who didn't know the law so this man was called Bada Babu uh you know who had studied uh you know law and who knew English and he could be their spokesperson so in fact in a 197 17 petition he says if my name constitutes an obstacle in the release of all the other prisoners then delete my name and release the others and that would give me as much pleasure as my own release would secure so that clearly shows he was talking on behalf of all the other people but this is constantly brought out uh you know to demonize him and you spoke about kalapani ranveer and | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-40 | him and you spoke about kalapani ranveer and the the atrocities there not only to savarkar but all the other only the revolutionaries were housed in kalapani mind you no single Congressman was sent there hold on just hold this thought because I want to go back to this debate of uh where does Veer savarkar actually stand in the Indian history yes uh textbook basically when I was doing my research for this episode the word that repeatedly came up along with him was hindut yeah and I feel in the modern day Hindu doesn't mean what it actually meant back then like see now that I even use the word hindut there's a lot of listeners who probably switched off because they associate hindut with uh Hindus being against other religions like Islam Christianity Sikhism Buddhism Etc and you know honestly to some degree that is what hindut was become for a lot of Hindus out there today who are against other religions who want to have this whole Hindu nationalism thing | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-41 | who want to have this whole Hindu nationalism thing going on in the country but back then I believe hindutua meant something very different and he was inspired by the ideals of chatapati shivaji Maharaj yeah uh and at that time Muslims Christians six Hindus were all fighting together so I'm sure that there was no uh religious sentiment behind what he did but I'd love to know this Hindu angle I mean the way it was invisaged by him he wrote this uh very slim booklet called Essentials of hinduta who is a Hindu while he was in jail and while all his other writings were in Marathi this was one he wrote in English for a pan-india audience because that was a time when it was very dangerous movement that was going on in the country called the khilafat movement uh which Gandhi had led with the idea of bringing Hindu Muslim Unity but it had very diff you know dangerous ramifications the seeds of partition were almost I think uh | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-42 | the seeds of partition were almost I think uh crystallized around that time because of the the way it was led where on a communal issue of who will sit at in the uh as the sultan or the caliph of uh you know Turkey which the British had won in war you were bartering um you know Muslim support for the Freedom Movement so a lot of Muslims did not participate till then in the Freedom Movement the very little membership of the Congress too so that I think Gandhi's idea was if you show them this uh little carrot saying it's a cause that is very uh dear to some of you so we will support you for that in return you know you participate in the non-cooperation movement now and in return he had promised that within one year the country will become free and we will establish a caliphate a pan-islamist uh you know a very bahabi kind of a movement to establish a caliphate there why should we in India support something like that but that was done | 2coIKErAxUY |
f70607433132-43 | in India support something like that but that was done and when both these things did not work his promises there were lots of you know Hindu genocides that happened in the 1920s including the mopla uh you know Carnage in Malabar in different parts of India and the Hindus were almost being led like a Pied Piper to their you know leading the rats to their uh destruction and that's when savarkar comes up with this document of what what hindutva is which right at the beginning he says this has nothing to do with the theological aspects of Hinduism as a religion or the you know matters of Soul Super Soul all of that this is more of a cultural and a national identity marker so to say you need to have your devotion your affiliation to this nation those who consider this land mass as their punya bhumi not by religion but by your affiliation you don't care whether turkey May consultant you're thinking of this country your punya bhumi and your | 2coIKErAxUY |