
Dropbox Hasn't Learned Their Lesson - rcarmo
https://sethvargo.com/dropbox-hasnt-learned-their-lession/
======
bandali
For folks looking for a Dropbox alternative, I recommend Syncthing [0]. 

Syncthing is a free software (MPL-2.0) cross-platform [1] and decentralized
peer-to-peer file synchronization utility with end-to-end encryption, and with
support for relaying [2]. 

Check out their getting started guide [3]. 

[0]: [https://syncthing.net](https://syncthing.net) [1]:
[https://docs.syncthing.net/users/contrib.html](https://docs.syncthing.net/users/contrib.html)
[2]:
[https://docs.syncthing.net/users/relaying.html](https://docs.syncthing.net/users/relaying.html)
[3]: [https://docs.syncthing.net/intro/getting-
started.html](https://docs.syncthing.net/intro/getting-started.html)

~~~
qwertyuiop924
What about SpiderOak, if you still want something centralized? 

If you want to access your own files anywhere, you're not really in it for the
sync aspect, and you're willing to host your own, there's this great piece of
software called OpenSSH, that implements remote shell access as well as a
protocol called SFTP that you can use to remotely access files.  There are
clients available on all systems, frequently installed by default, it's
incredibly secure - you may have heard of it.  It's kinda new, and the up-and-
coming thing in personal cloud software.  The investors are really excited. 

:-D.

~~~
kijin
I've been using SpiderOak for over 6 years now, and three things haven't
changed:

Their UI is crappy and laggy, and doesn't look like it belongs in any
platform. 

It takes forever to sync files between devices. 

It sometimes gets confused when I rapidly switch between branches in a git
repository, touching thousands of small files each time. 

But I love the ability to pick and choose exactly which files and folders to
backup and sync.  SpiderOak adapts to my workflow, instead of demanding that I
put my files in specific folders.  If inefficiency is a necessary cost of
combining this kind of flexibility with full client-side encryption, I can
live with that. 

~~~
johntash
I've been pretty happy with SpiderOak overall.  I lucked out and got a coupon
to get 'unlimited' space for relatively cheap, so I like that I can back up
all of my machines without worrying about needing to pay more. 

1000s of small files, or one rapidly changing file cause me problems as well. 
It's also annoying that each client has to decode new data whenever something
is backed up on another machine.  This causes my cpu to hit 100% on my laptop
while my desktop is backing up a bunch of new files. 

------
newhouseb
Hi folks, Ben from Dropbox on the desktop client team --

This is an experiment that is being tested with a fraction of users primarily
on beta releases (which Seth is on, as evidenced by the version number in his
screenshots).  We haven’t shipped it to everyone so that we can continue to
iterate and incorporate feedback.  I checked with the team about the “Finder
Toolbar” drop down and it looks like it requires a restart of the Dropbox
client in order to take affect — let us know if that doesn’t work. 

~~~
Longhanks
Hi Ben from Dropbox.  You seem to completely miss the point.  It's not about the
feature itself, it's your way of "hacking" or "injecting" Dropbox features
into places the user didn't expect. 

This is not the first time that Dropbox ignores the system guidelines (or even
permissions if the user explicitly disallowed Dropbox access to Accessibility
features).  Why are you ignoring the feedback concerning Dropbox' way of
"hacking" itself into system areas like Finder? 

~~~
nl
I completely and absolutely disagree. 

Seamless Finder integration is why I like Dropbox.  Sure, this is an annoying
bug, but I'd hate it if the stopped doing it. 

~~~
mistersquid
In 2011, a startup I was consulting with standardized on Dropbox (gratis at
the time) to sync design files.  Even back then, I was wary of Dropbox's
ability to sync files at the level of the Finder/OS with badged folders. 

To me, the Finder integration was straight up spooky, suggesting an
extraordinarily high risk profile. 

When my consulting gig was up, I uninstalled Dropbox precisely because of the
Finder integration, and I have advocated against using Dropbox as a file-
sharing solution in all subsequent consulting arrangements. 

I've also avoided using it as part of my day job, even though some of my
teammates used it. 

~~~
nl
Not entirely clear why you are posting this? 

It's clear that there is some diversity of opinions on this topic, but we
already knew that. 

To me, your datapoint shows that Dropbox is right to behave the way they do:
in 2011 you thought it was high risk, they have kept with that behavior and
yet nothing bad has happened.  I'm unsure if that was your intention, but that
is how it looks to me. 

It is entirely unclear why you think this is particularly risky: If Dropbox
can do it, then other malicious programs can too. 

Dropbox's behavior creates no additional security risk, but increases the
usability of their software. 

If there really is a security problem here, then surely that is a problem with
the OS, not Dropbox, and it is the OS that should be fixed? 

~~~
mistersquid
My reason for making my earlier post is unclear because I buried my lede when
replying to the GGP.  That lede should have been something like "Finder
integration is not necessarily a selling point to security-minded users." 

To my mind, the security risk comes in having multiple points of connection in
the local file system that are tightly bound to files on an external system. 

In the case of inexperienced users (and even a few experienced ones), those
points of entry could be scattered throughout the local file system. 
Consequently, these external files were effectively pipelines from systems all
with unknown security profiles.  This combined with the Finder integration
troubled me enough to stop using Dropbox as soon as was practicable. 

EDIT: Clarify meaning in first sentence.  Correct plural.  Split last sentence
into two.  Change tense. 

~~~
nl
So your problem is with Dropbox's main purpose of existence? 

That's fine, but don't pretend it has anything to do with the finder
integration.  A more consistent position would be to praise that because it
makes the other functionality more visible, reducing the security concerns. 

~~~
mistersquid
> That's fine, but don't pretend it has anything to do with the finder
> integration. 

I wasn't pretending but was, in fact, the victim of my own faulty
rationalization. 

That is, you're right that Finder integration has nothing to do with
connections to potentially insecure systems. 

By way of explanation: when I first saw the Finder badging, I intuitively
understood the insecure nature of connecting my system to others.  So, I
conflated the two ideas in my head: "Finder integration is terrible", which of
course is just plain wrong. 

It was never my purpose to misrepresent my feelings.  I wasn't "pretending".  I
simply tried to make rational something I only intuitively understood. 

Good catch.  Thank you. 

------
xxpor
>If you were any other company, you would be liable for a lawsuit for hacking. 
Please stop using your position as a company to hack our systems. 

This post is full of ridiculous hyperbole, and it really detracts from the
actual message. 

~~~
sethvargo
Thanks for the feedback.  I've removed the rants about Dropbox the company to
focus on the UX and lack of disabling issues. 

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
You're using a beta version of Dropbox, right?  I haven't seen this behaviour
on the regular non-beta version I'm running. 

You'd expect bugs in beta. 

~~~
SilasX
Bugs, yes. 

Blatant disregard of user-specified OS-level permissions and inability to
access your own files when there are more than fifteen in a folder, no. 

~~~
mrgordon
Keep in mind Dropbox literally got its start with adding the sync icons in
Finder when Apple said it could not be done.  The entire company was
essentially based on their ability to make a better user experience through a
tighter integration with your files then was technically allowed at the time. 
I'm not saying you have to find that acceptable but it is what it is and its
the reason why millions of people have heard of Dropbox and proclaim its joys. 

Anyway both things you mention are bugs even if you find them frustrating.  The
original poster was having issue with the option to turn off the Finder
integration but the option was put there so you can control it.  The only
reason you can't access files with more than fifteen in a folder is clearly
due to a bug in the beta. 

If you want to say that a company the size of Dropbox should never have bugs
of that scale even in their beta, then I would point at several of Apple's
broken iOS updates (bricking phones, etc.)  or Samsung's recent Galaxy Note 7
fiasco as evidence that much larger companies ship software and hardware that
isn't in beta and has undergone much more due diligence with catastrophic
bugs. 

Anyway I don't use Dropbox really but I felt compelled to comment because I
couldn't understand how you could say you expect bugs but don't expect the
reported bugs in a beta. 

~~~
SilasX
You're right: in a sense, "everything you don't like is a bug".  But it still
seems important to distinguish "they broke the entire permission model, where
I can no longer trust the sandbox boundaries" and "I'm locked out of crucial
parts of my system" from "gosh, this is slower/more confusing than I might
like". 

I'm not sure the beta testers understood they were giving up that level of
control by installing Dropbox's new software.  The post's author certainly
didn't. 

True, Dropbox got away with grabbing permissions that apps shouldn't have, and
then getting away with it.  But it's still IMHO a bit more than a bug to take
this attitude of "let's take whatever we can!  It's Easier To Ask For
Forgiveness..."

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _But it still seems important to distinguish "they broke the entire
> permission model, where I can no longer trust the sandbox boundaries" and
> "I'm locked out of crucial parts of my system" from "gosh, this is
> slower/more confusing than I might like"._ 

Well, if they succeeded at that it means the permission model _is_ broken, and
you can not trust the sandbox boundaries, _whether you have Dropbox installed
or not_.  So no reason to be angry at Dropbox; ask Apple to fix the sandbox
model instead. 

~~~
boduh
Dropbox is not a sandboxed app on macOS. 

------
xenadu02
Dropbox still refuses to answer why their client takes up a ton of CPU anytime
there is IO on the system.  It seems like they are monitoring ALL filesystem
activity, not just the Dropbox folder.  What they are doing with that data I
have no idea. 

They prompt continuously for access to Accessibility and the "control other
applications" permission, no matter how many times you deny it. 

As soon as I finish this project (where I need access to Dropbox) I'm
uninstalling it. 

~~~
ben_jones
"Don't attribute to malice what could equally be explained by ignorance" is
one of my favorite sayings and though I would hesitate to attribute ignorance
to Dropbox I do feel some empathy when it comes to dealing with multi-platform
file-system permission settings. 

I think it's completely reasonable to suspect at least some of Dropbox to be
old code pushed quickly into production and caste almost instantly into
legacy-matenence-mode that can not be easily refactored or iterated upon
("move fast and break things har har").  While this is _almost_ inexcusable for
an established and well-funded company that does not have a shortage of
resources to fix the problem, I find it significantly more likely then some
5-eyes-esque surveillance or data mining strategy as you allude to. 

~~~
edoceo
I think the original quote is

    
    
      s/ignorance/incompetence

~~~
hk__2
The Jargon quote was “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity”. [ 1]

[1]: [http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/Hanlons-
Razor.html](http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/Hanlons-Razor.html)

------
peterbsmith
Just putting this here so that the Dropbox employees who inevitably read this
can be aware: I've used dropbox for 5+ years, and as a paid user at that. 
Today I deleted dropbox because of the recent shenanigans and bad press as
well as because there is a lot of high quality competition in the synced file
storage space that I can turn to. 

~~~
creshal
Out of curiosity, what did you switch to? 

~~~
copperx
Not op, but SeaFile looks nice. 

~~~
trextrex
With a brief look at the alternatives, Tresorit [1] looks quite nice with
their encryption features. 

[1] [https://tresorit.com](https://tresorit.com)

~~~
copperx
It doesn't look like you can install Tresorit on your own webserver. 

------
hendzen
Next up - Dropbox starts conditionally disabling features if it detects that
the user is a developer (i.e. XCode is installed or Terminal.app is in the
list of running processes). 

------
ummjackson
This is just blatantly false... the setting to disable the feature works after
you've restarted Dropbox, just as the UI tells you to.  Proof:
[https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/782387668713771008/pho...](https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/782387668713771008/photo/1)

I'm toolbar free and it was a very minor inconvenience - not worth a rant-
filled blog post like this. 

~~~
eridius
Before you even posted this comment he already replied saying restarting
Dropbox didn't work. 

[https://twitter.com/sethvargo/status/782387877321867264](https://twitter.com/sethvargo/status/782387877321867264)

~~~
ummjackson
It's obviously a bug in his environment... this is a beta feature they're
testing and hence not perfect.  I've tried on multiple machines and it's
working.  Perhaps he should try a reinstall.  Agreed it's annoying, but worthy
of an entire blog post?  Eh, not really. 

------
IMcD23
I see in the screenshot of the settings at the bottom "Finder Toolbar" set to
On.  Is that not how you disable this? 

~~~
yborg
That wasn't present in 11.4, so that seems like a good bet.  Still seems like a
useless feature. 

~~~
sethvargo
Unfortunately that doesn't disable it.  I've updated the post to make that
point clearer.  It seems like that option was added, but doesn't actually
control anything.  Maybe that UI option was never actually wired into the
functionality /shrug. 

~~~
immigrantsheep
disable and restart finder.  works here...

------
laurentdc
I'm not sure why people still use Dropbox besides inertia. 

I mean, it's not even competitive on the pricing.  1 TB @ 9.99$/mo while
Microsoft gives you the whole Office suite plus 1TB of OneDrive at less than
that. 

~~~
encoderer
Price sensitivity to consumer SaaS always catches me by surprise.  Ten dollars
a month is a rounding error in most budgets, a single grocery store impulse
buy. 

~~~
laurentdc
It's more about paying for something you're likely not going use or need.  They
only offer the 1 TB tier which sounds great, but I wouldn't be surprised if
most people used at best 5-6 GB.  Enough to fill the 2 GB free plan, not enough
to justify the 1 TB, but there's nothing in the middle. 

Also, subscriptions add up quickly.  One less is always better. 

~~~
danieldk
The competition (Google, Microsoft) can probably only offer intermediate plans
because they subsidize cloud drives with other products (Office, ads, etc.)  to
do a quick land grab.  I am pretty sure that it will be hard to provide 1TB
storage for $10 per month with heavy redundancy, proper security, support,
etc.  So they need to get their margin from people two use significantly less
than 1TB. 

Also, you are not only paying for storage, but also maintenance of network
infrastructure and the client/server software. 

------
new299
I said this last time but it bares reiterating:

Dropbox circumventing security restrictions is particularly worrying because
they have board members who support warrentless surveillance. 

In my mind Dropbox became a company not worth supporting when Rice joined
Dropbox's board ([http://www.drop-dropbox.com/](http://www.drop-
dropbox.com/)).  Personally, with a board member who advocates warrentless
surveillance it seems unlikely that we share similar views on the security of
my data, and I wont be using their service. 

~~~
NumberCruncher
I remember the last time I used dropbox on my laptop.  I tried to open a random
file outside my dropbox folder and I got the error message that I can not open
it because it is used by dropbox at this moment.  I deleted the desktop app at
that moment. 

I am not an OS hacker but as a user I am pretty sure the desktop app should
not access files outside my dropbox folder.  The excuse of "testing some
desktop features" is pretty lame.  If you catch your housemaid sniffling your
panties it is simply not an effing feature, even if your panties are clean and
sexy! 

And this is not part of the mass surveillance...

------
daenney
That little overlay on the site that tells you how many minutes of reading you
still have left I find infuriating.  It disappears the second I stop moving and
gets right in the way when I start scrolling.  Especially when you increase the
font a bit b/c eyes and it's no longer confined to an empty column on the
right of your screen. 

------
MitchellCash
If not Dropbox, what solution are others turning to? 

I recently signed up for Sync.com, due to their prioritisation of security
features and they seem like a good company.  I have come across some minor
bugs, but I sent these onto their customer support who were reasonably
responsive.  Even with these minor bugs I'm still happy with the trade-off to
move off Dropbox. 

I must admit the most difficult part was definitely the services I used that
directly integrate with Dropbox, like 1Password syncing.  So I also had to find
solutions to not just Dropbox, but also third-party services that integrated. 
For 1Password, I signed up for their Account option where they handle the
syncing for you at a cost of $2.99 per month.  Again, another trade-off I was
happy to make. 

~~~
danieldk
_If not Dropbox, what solution are others turning to?_ 

I mostly use Resilio Sync besides Dropbox.  It works really great: fast
syncing, nice user interface, etc.  What keeps me from fully switching is that
I hit some nasty bugs in the past (e.g. all folders suddenly getting
disconnected, etc.). 

 _I recently signed up for Sync.com, due to their prioritisation of security
features and they seem like a good company._ 

I also tried sync.com recently.  Unfortunately, the client did not look very
native on macOS (poking around revealed a lot of .exe files, so I guess they
are using Mono).  Besides that sync was quite slow compared to Dropbox. 

~~~
MitchellCash
_...the client did not look very native on macOS (poking around revealed a lot
of .exe files..._

I also noticed this.  But I have the mind frame that they are still a fairly
"new" company, 3 years old, compared to Dropbox, 9 years old, and their growth
and features continue to improve.  In saying that, I would definitely prefer a
more native look on macOS. 

 _Besides that sync was quite slow compared to Dropbox._ 

I'm from a place in Australia with a generally slow Internet speed, especially
upload speed, and may not have noticed this pitfall as much as others might. 

------
apatters
Another area where Dropbox seems to be slipping is customer support.  DB
stopped working on one of my machines after an unscheduled shutdown.  Submitted
a ticket along with a thorough description of the problem and error log, and
after nearly a week the only response I've had was an automated reply that I
should disable antivirus programs.  This being an Ubuntu desktop, I don't have
any AV installed. 

This company gets $120/yr from me and they can't answer a support ticket? 
There have many competitors who charge less and I bet some of those
competitors actually support their paying customers.  You are looking at one
soon-to-be-ex-customer unless DB pulls a rabbit out of their hat very soon. 

------
brian-armstrong
Even if you can remove the overlay somehow, you still can't remove Condoleezza
Rice from Dropbox's board, which should be plenty of reason to avoid it
entirely. 

------
Zekio
This is just like stuff that adds itself to right click menu in windows
without asking during install

~~~
vram22
I think I've seen a few of those, but what are your examples?  Interested to
know.  I normally check carefully for cases where the software tells you its an
option (adding itself to right click menu, or to startup menu).  But don't
remember coming across one where it does it silently.  Would like to know of
those. 

~~~
jodrellblank
Does AMD Catalyst Control Center count? 

Not sure if it prompts, but I usually untick optional things, and I still have
that when right clicking on the desktop. 

~~~
vram22
I guess yes.  Any that meet the criteria. 

------
peternicky
After learning about their mac client backdoor, I removed all their software
from my devices and stopped using the service.  I'd suggest everyone do the
same and use the web interface if you absolutely need to consume or share with
other parties who still use them. 

~~~
Sphax
what backdoor? 

~~~
niij
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12463338](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12463338)

------
joshmanders
Dang, I've always been a fan of Dropbox, but after upgrading from El Capitan
to Sierra I opted to completely cut Dropbox out of my tools used, as I only
ever used it hold an archive of documents I wanted to keep but don't interact
with often (Such as license files for software and online receipts for things
like tickets bought and stuff) and opted for using iCloud Desktop & Documents. 

~~~
m_mueller
Siracusa probably knows what he's talking about when he tells you to run, not
walk, away from this feature.  Backup everything before you disable it too. 

~~~
joshmanders
I'm unaware of what you're talking about..

~~~
m_mueller
Probably you won't see this anymore, but this is just one example of things
going very wrong with iCloud documents:

[http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/maybe-be-careful-with-
os...](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/maybe-be-careful-with-osx-sierra)

In general Apple has simply been terrible at ensuring reliability of their
iCloud services.  Their idea of hiding everything away simply doesn't work -
there are legitimate and regular edge cases that won't be handled if you don't
give a UI. 

If want to hear the Siracusa story, see this:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/44auj0/atp_155_liste...](https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/44auj0/atp_155_listen_to_john_siracusas_wonderful_rant/)

I don't know about you, but I simply don't trust iCloud with documents. 
Personally, I've tried it with something very simple first: Notes.  It just
doesn't sync reliably at all, totally useless. 

~~~
joshmanders
Thank you for the links.  I haven't had any issues with iCloud, and Desktop &
Documents switch has been going swimmingly. 

------
ethanbond
It's remarkable that they have such a stellar product design team but push out
stuff like this. 

------
TeMPOraL
Kill the messenger, eh? 

If Dropbox really, to quote 'SilasX, "broke the entire permission model, where
I can no longer trust the sandbox boundaries" \- well, the cat's out of the
bag, Apple's sandbox model sucks.  You should bring it up with Apple so that
they fix it (either allow proper extensions or just patch up the hole and
brick Dropbox in the process). 

------
fixmycode
We're still waiting on an answer of how does Dropbox do this without
Accessibility.  What happens when every other service wants to start putting
toolbars on my finder? 

~~~
saynsedit
Dropbox has been modifying the Finder since 2008, nothing new here. 

------
immigrantsheep
Listening to these comments one would think Dropbox is the worse company in
the universe and we have a thousand alternatives.  But then time goes by and
people are still using dropbox and nobody talks about the alternatives. 

Another point is, you're using someone else's drive somewhere in the cloud and
storing there (more or less) sensitive files and you're talking about privacy
and security?  Gimme a break. 

Third and last, if you're that unhappy with a piece of software that's for the
most part free, go ahead and pick something else.  Nobody's forcing you.  Same
goes for Windows, Office, Gmail and whatnot. 

~~~
foolfoolz
you are allowed to complain about free software

~~~
immigrantsheep
this is not complaining.  this is villagers with torches and pitchforks at the
gate

~~~
wruza
Do you have any footage from the gate cam? 

------
gcr
Does the author not see the "Finder toolbar: On" option in their own
screenshot?  And they claim it can't be disabled? 

~~~
rovr138
> Update: As some folks have pointed out, there is a "Finder toolbar" option
> that is enabled.  Toggling that yields no results, although maybe it will
> work in the future. 

It's there in the article

------
Grom_PE
I removed Dropbox from my Windows computer as soon as they started to include
a minifilter driver with new versions. 

[https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/9249](https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/9249)

I don't believe a program needs to integrate so deeply into the system just to
sync the files. 

~~~
rincebrain
FWIW, I would presume the reason that was added would be some shortcoming(s)
in [1], since I doubt they wrote a minifilter driver just for kicks. 

(It might have been that some programs were doing IO that avoided triggering
the change notification, and a sufficiently large {number of
customers,customer} complained about it.) 

I don't work for Dropbox, and I haven't used the API, but as I said, I really
doubt they added a (signed) driver requirement lightly. 

[1] - [https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/aa364417%28VS.85%29...](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/aa364417%28VS.85%29.aspx)

~~~
Grom_PE
They made it primarily to support the functionality called "Project Infinite":

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11571813](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11571813)

------
bbarn
I gave up on drop box long ago, but someone in my company uses a paid version
of it for some reason still, and group policy means it's on my windows
machine.  I made the mistake of plugging my phone into my work PC to charge it
recently and got a lovely little attempt to get me to back up my photos from
my phone - so I don't lose my memories!  which caused me to promptly circumvent
corporate policy via my buddy working in helpdesk and uninstall it. 

I don't understand why, once already installed, they are trying to get me to
use it more.  They won't make more money will they?  Are they using this as a
way to get me to get close to a limit and upgrade? 

~~~
viraptor
You may know it's possible, others on HN may know it's possible.  But if you
release Dropbox for Joe Random on the internet, it actually makes sense to
notify him that he can backup his photos from the phone when you discover the
phone is being connected.  It's helping feature discovery, not pushing addons -
as you say - they don't explicitly make more money from this. 

------
ryanmccullagh
Question about Dropbox.  Since their product uses open source software, that
means they use non GPL licensed open source software, correct? 

~~~
Sphax
Probably, lots of non GPL software out there. 

------
qwertyuiop924
I haven't used Dropbox in forever.  If you really need sync, SyncThing's your
best bet, but all I really needed was access to all my files from anywhere. 

SSH and Git work pretty well for that. 

I'll take a trusted piece of open source sofware with strong security running
on my own server (openSSH) over a magic pocket any day. 

------
chtfn
Hmm I wonder what the author means by: "Aside from the fact that this banner
looks like something free software would install as a toolbar, [...]"

As alternives, depending on your requirements, I recommend SpiderOak,
SyncThing, or a third-party offering / your self-hosted Nextcloud. 

~~~
guruz
... or ownCloud. 

~~~
favadi
nextcloud and owncloud are not basically same thing? 

~~~
compuguy
Next cloud is a fork of owncloud.  Right now they haven't significantly
diverged yet. 

------
iamleppert
I use sshfs (FUSE on mac) with a mount point on a small instance that has
mounted my S3 bucket.  Files get transferred to the server and eventually make
it to s3. 

If you have a little time, you don't need Dropbox at all.  And you can't get
much cheaper than raw S3. 

------
duncan_bayne
I'm using SyncThing ( [https://syncthing.net/](https://syncthing.net/)) to
synchronise files between my systems (Linux and Android) and it's great.  No
complaints so far. 

------
zwetan
I completely uninstalled dropbox desktop client and replaced it with
expandrive [0] which I was already using for mounting drives trough SSH

[0]: [http://www.expandrive.com](http://www.expandrive.com)

------
Exuma
Did they literally just remove it as fast as they added it?  I have 11.4.21 and
it's not there, and it also has no 'finder toolbar' in settings. 

------
mcarrano
I have not had dropbox installed on any of my devices for a few years now.  I
still have files in dropbox but that is mostly files from when I was in
college. 

------
bogomipz
"The only way to disable this this is to completely quit Dropbox"

I went ahead and disabled it a few months ago. 

~~~
eddieh
Quit Dropbox and have been advocating against it for years. 

~~~
wyclif
But then what are you using instead? 

~~~
eddieh
[https://www.synology.com/en-
us/dsm/6.0/cloud_file_syncing](https://www.synology.com/en-
us/dsm/6.0/cloud_file_syncing)

------
benologist
Same company that endlessly lies about getting unlimited space for an extra
$2.50/month. 

------
HaoZeke
I say people haven't learnt their lesson of they're still on macs. 

------
B1FF_PSUVM
Dropbox will never learn their lesson if it's not in their interest (cf.  Upton
Sinclair). 

For instance, client side encryption?  Mwahahaha.  Studiously ignoring that for
the better part of a decade, why change now? 

Valuation is OK, ain't it?  Doing fine, then. 

~~~
wilmo
This is it in a nutshell, Dropbox won't care what the noise about this is
because it won't be heard by the vast majority of their users. 

------
lolahaha
This is more of a design problem than an engineering problem.  Dear Dropbox
Design Team, please get your shit together. 

------
tdkl
To sum the post up to avoid this in the future :

\- OP needed to state he used the beta release, which are prone to be in an
unfinished state,

\- Dropbox needs to be more transparent about their releases, with including
proper changelogs (they're only stating "bug fixes and optimisations" in the
Dropbox forum).  If you're adding/changing the UX in some way, document it.  If
you want a feature to be developed discretely, make a private beta, but still
- document it. 

It's an opportunity to learn something from this.