Tech companies cheer for Senate proposal to increase immigration

Bill focuses solely on offering more visas for well-educated immigrants. 

Comprehensive immigration reform is generally considered an issue that is very likely to come up in the 2013 Congressional session.  Striking a deal that will satisfy all sides, though, will be a complex negotiation. 

However, a small group of Senators from both parties aren't waiting on a grand bargain over immigration to move ahead with a particular slice of immigration reform that's important to the tech industry: increasing the number of highly skilled workers that are allowed to come to the US. 

The Immigration Innovation Act of 2013 was introduced today in the Senate and is already sponsored by five senators from each party.  The bill's particulars are laid out at the website of one of its sponsors, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT).  The bill would:

Increase the number of H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire foreigners for key jobs they can't fill with Americans.  The number of H-1Bs would rise from 65,000 to at least 115,000; there would also be an adjustable cap that could rise up to a maximum of 300,000 visas, depending on how many applications are submitted. 

Authorize employment for spouses of H-1B visa holders. 

Give more flexibility to H-1B visa holders, letting them switch jobs more easily, so they are not tied to the one employer who originally sponsored them. 

Allow certain immigrants to get "green cards" that allow for permanent residency, even when the green card limit has already been hit.  The list includes immigrants who have a master's degree or above in a so-called STEM field (Science, Technology, Engineering, or Mathematics), or who have "extraordinary ability" or are "outstanding professors and researchers." 

Allow foreign-born students studying in the US more certainty that they can stay in the country if they declare an intent to immigrate. 

The bill will take the revenues generated by the fees collected with the extra H-1Bs to fund more STEM education in the US, as well.  The fees on filing for H-1B visas will go up by about $1,000 if the bill passes. 

Late last year, Republicans in the House tried to move ahead a bill that would increase highly-skilled immigration, but that proposal was dead on arrival since it would have done so at the expense of the "diversity visas" for immigrants from less-represented countries. 

It remains to be seen whether the bill's sponsors will try to pass it on its own or fit it into the kind of larger immigration bill now being discussed. 

Bill co-sponsor Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) told The Hill it "could easily be" included in the working group's comprehensive legislation. " We thought this issue is so important to moving the economy forward [that] we wanted to get started on this right away and put some meat on the bone of what they're talking about," she said. 

Other original Senate sponsors include Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Chris Coons (D-DE). 

The bill is being widely praised in tech circles.  Both HP and Intel issued statements supporting the bill today. 

In a interview with Ars earlier this month, Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) said immigration reform had a better chance of being passed as part of a larger package that would satisfy more than just the tech sector. 

The bill's introduction comes the same day that President Obama delivered a speech in Las Vegas about immigration reform. " If Congress is unable to move forward in a timely fashion, I will send up a bill based on my proposal and insist that they vote on it right away," Obama said, according to Yahoo News. 

He had measured praise for the Senate proposal, calling it "very much in line with the principles I’ve proposed and campaigned on for the last few years." 

This legislation should not pass.  The need to recruit these "highly educated workers" is merely a symptom of the problems with our higher education system.  It would be ultimately more beneficial to these companies and to the economy to focus on solving the true source of the problem.  There are plenty of people in America that would love to be able to afford the education level that these companies are demanding for their entry level positions. 

Increase the cap is always welcome.  EB India and China are suffering from prolonged wait.  EB2-India has a waiting period of 10 years, while EB2-China is waiting on the edge of 5 year.  EB3 has a endless waiting that is even longer. 

And these are highly educated, outstanding scientist and engineers.  And we are not talking about a million of immigrants, we are talking about a cap of 2803 green card per year for Indian, 2803 for Chinese in the EB2 category.  similar amount in EB3 category.  All in the meantime, rich crooks can buy a green card without waiting whatsoever. 

This is insane.  Just increase the cap from 2803 to 5000-10000 for each country, that will clean up the system quickly. 

For those who disagree, ask yourself what your world would be like without all those Indians and Chinese in the universities and tech companies. 

This is good for companies in the United States.  Not good for the increasing number of incompetent american workers who don't like competition nor countries who that are going to lose some valuable workforce. 

You don't like to pay more taxes for your public schools?  there you go. 

Increase the number of H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire foreigners for key jobs they can't fill with Americans.  The number of H-1Bs would rise from 65,000 to at least 115,000; there would also be an adjustable cap that could rise up to a maximum of 300,000 visas

I moved to the US permanently in 1999 on an L1 visa, which permitted me to work for the company that sponsored me, and only that company for the length of the visa.  The L1 was incredibly scary as I was totally at the mercy of my employer, if I was 'let go' I had 30 days to leave the country.  PERIOD.  Having sold everything I owned in the UK and made the move, the idea of going through all of that in a super short period really worried me. 

So, within months of landing in CA, I started working through the transition from L1 to Green Card to ensure that at least my residence in the US was a little less employment dependent. 

My legal, filing and various other fees topped $25,000 fairly quickly during 2000, but in 2002 I was granted a Green Card and finally able to change employers - the company that I moved over with went from over 2300 to under 600 employees in three years and everyone took regular pay cuts......

It was not easy, not cheap and not really a lot of fun, especially considering the huge number of layoffs in the tech industry back then. 

Relaxing the rules to allow someone to work for any employer on a H1B (or L1 etc) would be great as it reduces the dependency on a specific employer and reduces the 'scariness' factor. 

Making the transition to a Green Card from a visa a little less expensive and a whole lot less difficult would be great too. 

As I am now going through the citizenship process, obviously I would like to see that process made a little easier too......

I think your headline needs to be revised and you need to re-read that legislation. 

The Senate did NOT call for "more immigration".  They called for more visas.  These education-driven visas are meant to help those who are ALREADY here stay legally and adapt the system to reward those who are trying to be legitimate immigrants and work hard to get a quality education. 

The purpose wasn't to "get more immigrants!",  it was to help those they deemed worthy of staying based on their previous actions have any easier legal way of doing so. 

This is a bad idea.  There are plenty of educated citizens to take these jobs.  The problem is that many of them are 40+ years of age and aren't tied to the companies offering the jobs.  That means companies who hires callow MBAs to manage them find that these mature employees won't drink the latest buzzword Koolaid, and can't be deported if they complain of bad working conditions.  Corporate America just won't stand for it! 

Better to hire earnest but unqualified and captive immigrants and keep giving the test until they pass. 

I think your headline needs to be revised and you need to re-read that legislation. 

The Senate did NOT call for "more immigration".  They called for more visas.  These education-driven visas are meant to help those who are ALREADY here stay legally and adapt the system to reward those who are trying to be legitimate immigrants and work hard to get a quality education. 

The purpose wasn't to "get more immigrants!",  it was to help those they deemed worthy of staying based on their previous actions have any easier legal way of doing so. 

While the visas also apply to companies hiring foreigners, they essentially loosened the reigns a bit.  It's not like they're calling up tech companies and saying, "ok, now get me some more Indians and Chinese!". 

How about a Bill that supports increasing American education so we don't have to import well educated people from all over the world? 

Have you seen the engineering and CS departments of American colleges lately, particularly for graduate programs? " Native" Americans apparently have a lot less interest in difficult technical fields than foreigners do. 

Increase the number of H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire foreigners for key jobs they can't fill with Americans.  The number of H-1Bs would rise from 65,000 to at least 115,000; there would also be an adjustable cap that could rise up to a maximum of 300,000 visas

Where are these 115,000 to 300,000 jobs that American's can't do? 

Hiring American workers to do those 115,000 to 300,000 jobs isn't the real issue.  When it really comes down to it, companies don't want to pay American workers prevailing wages.  It's cheaper for them to bring people over on a work visa and pay them less. 

It's not that I mind increasing immigration, but it shouldn't be specific to specialists.  We have people for that, just as much as other sectors. 

We have people for those positions, they're just knowledgeable about the economy and realize what they're really worth.  Someone from Elbonia who's used to the equivalent of $20k a year isn't going to realize they're getting boned until it's too late. 

I'd rather see immigration generally opened up, so we can get new blood at all levels. ( And maybe some incentives to encourage businesses to move to lower-COL areas. ) 

How about a Bill that supports increasing American education so we don't have to import well educated people from all over the world? 

The good old zero sum game argument.  Why not do both?  Those damn immigrants like Sergey Brinn coming into the country and creating companies that employ thousands... Oh wait

Sergey Brinn did not come into the USA to take an entry level programming job. 

These visas are strictly used by established large companies.  Primarily for entry level positions. 

THAT. 

These visas are abused by large companies.  They get average talent from overseas which they can train to perform mediocre tasks, and pay them pennies compared to what they'd pay a US citizen or a permanent resident immigrant already in the US for good. 

Quote:

for key jobs they can't fill with American

Bullshit. 

How many IT workers already living in the US, with years of experience in IT, are presently unemployed?  I know several personally. 

A lot of people will hate on this, but I believe Americans need competition from the outside world, if your job isn't in danger of being taken by a smart French web designer or Indian programmer, there'l be even more ridiculously self-entitled silly people out there. 

I understand, and agree with, making it easier to change jobs with the H1B visa.  If a person has demonstrated that they have a skill set that's difficult to find in the US, then that skill set is needed in the US workforce, and who the employer is shouldn't matter. 

I absolutely disagree that companies can't find required capabilities in US citizens, especially with the current unemployment rate.  I agree with jkreuzig above that companies are using this as a way to get slaves relatively inexpensive employees. 

Better to hire earnest but unqualified and captive immigrants and keep giving the test until they pass. 

Unqualified?  What part of the bill suggests that the people that pass the line will be in any way unqualified? 

I am an international student here with no intention of staying in the US for a career.  At least part of that is because I don't want to be at the mercy of whatever company I end up in.  Much better to go to Hong Kong, Singapore, or a similar place that supports knowledge inflow.  Of course there's also cultural issues, but this bill passing would at least make me think about staying. 

Increase the number of H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire foreigners for key jobs they can't fill with Americans.  The number of H-1Bs would rise from 65,000 to at least 115,000; there would also be an adjustable cap that could rise up to a maximum of 300,000 visas

Where are these 115,000 to 300,000 jobs that American's can't do? 

Hiring American workers to do those 115,000 to 300,000 jobs isn't the real issue.  When it really comes down to it, companies don't want to pay American workers prevailing wages.  It's cheaper for them to bring people over on a work visa and pay them less. 

Hiring American workers to do those 115,000 to 300,000 jobs isn't the real issue.  When it really comes down to it, companies don't want to pay American workers prevailing wages.  It's cheaper for them to bring people over on a work visa and pay them less. 

Yes, obviously a real issue. 

I mean, the talent and capacity between people should be evaluated at the same price.  If someone is willing to do it for less, those who want more should try and make themselves even better.  When it comes to programming or math, all that really matters is what you can do, compared to others. 

How about a Bill that supports increasing American education so we don't have to import well educated people from all over the world? 

FTA:

Quote:

The bill will take the revenues generated by the fees collected with the extra H-1Bs to fund more STEM education in the US, as well.  The fees on filing for H-1B visas will go up by about $1,000 if the bill passes. 

It does both! 

Fritzed wrote:

This legislation should not pass.  The need to recruit these "highly educated workers" is merely a symptom of the problems with our higher education system.  It would be ultimately more beneficial to these companies and to the economy to focus on solving the true source of the problem.  There are plenty of people in America that would love to be able to afford the education level that these companies are demanding for their entry level positions. 

Fixing the education system will take years.  Absolutely, it should be fixed.  Absolutely, it would be more beneficial for America as a whole to have that education level available.  But in the meantime, while we wait for the minimum of four years it takes for that to come into effect (because it will take time for that influx of students to make their way through the improved system), companies need educated talent now, hence why an increase on H1B visas in conjunction with increasing post-secondary funding is the whole solution. 

fragile wrote:

Relaxing the rules to allow someone to work for any employer on a H1B (or L1 etc) would be great as it reduces the dependency on a specific employer and reduces the 'scariness' factor. 

This would be great, too, because suddenly the H1B visa employees now are part of the same competitive environment other employees are in.  My employer doesn't pay me any less for being on H1B than my coworkers, but I have heard of less scrupulous companies doing so.  If those employees could jump ship to another employer on the same H1B, suddenly you have a competitive environment which would benefit primarily employers who are paying competitive market wages. 

A lot of people will hate on this, but I believe Americans need competition from the outside world, if your job isn't in danger of being taken by a smart French web designer or Indian programmer, there'l be even more ridiculously self-entitled silly people out there. 

It wouldn't be a big deal if Indian programmers weren't so willing to work for such a poor wage.  I have worked with several H1B visa holders who make less than half of their American counterparts for the same work.  Granted, the work tends to be poor, at least from the extremely large Indian company I have had the displeasure of dealing with, but the idiot MBAs that hire this company tend not to realize they are being screwed until it's too late. 

Increase the number of H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire foreigners for key jobs they can't fill with Americans.  The number of H-1Bs would rise from 65,000 to at least 115,000; there would also be an adjustable cap that could rise up to a maximum of 300,000 visas

Where are these 115,000 to 300,000 jobs that American's can't do? 

Hiring American workers to do those 115,000 to 300,000 jobs isn't the real issue.  When it really comes down to it, companies don't want to pay American workers prevailing wages.  It's cheaper for them to bring people over on a work visa and pay them less. 

I agree, american workers are "overpriced"

Yeah, shame on them for wanting to make more than 30k a year after spending close to 100k for an education.  Greedy bastards. 

How about a Bill that supports increasing American education so we don't have to import well educated people from all over the world? 

Have you seen the engineering and CS departments of American colleges lately, particularly for graduate programs? " Native" Americans apparently have a lot less interest in difficult technical fields than foreigners do. 

I do believe foreigners gets a break on the intuition costs.  I am a American and I will like to get an engineering degree, but the costs are too high.  I will need to take out 100K in a student loan just to get that degree.  There are plenty of Americans that actually do engineering, but that is a hobby of theirs because the cost of the degree is too much.  If Americans can get a break for intuition like foreigners gets from the government, there will be more Americans getting engineering degrees.  I think the government need to have more faith in their own people instead giving out a reason saying getting engineering degrees is hard.  Any degrees are hard to get especially when they cost a lot. 

It wouldn't be a big deal if Indian programmers weren't so willing to work for such a poor wage.  I have worked with several H1B visa holders who make less than half of their American counterparts for the same work.  Granted, the work tends to be poor, at least from the extremely large Indian company I have had the displeasure of dealing with, but the idiot MBAs that hire this company tend not to realize they are being screwed until it's too late. 

At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion may I suggest that they are actually the ones that are willing enough and have the reasonable expectation of wages? 

A lot of people will hate on this, but I believe Americans need competition from the outside world, if your job isn't in danger of being taken by a smart French web designer or Indian programmer, there'l be even more ridiculously self-entitled silly people out there. 

You are missing the bigger picture - To get the same education as the <insert your favorite nationality>, the American has to spend 10 to 20 times more. 

Your French web designer or Indian programmer is not coming over here with $100k+ in debts or however much it costs to get a 4 year degree here these days. 

It wouldn't be a big deal if Indian programmers weren't so willing to work for such a poor wage.  I have worked with several H1B visa holders who make less than half of their American counterparts for the same work.  Granted, the work tends to be poor, at least from the extremely large Indian company I have had the displeasure of dealing with, but the idiot MBAs that hire this company tend not to realize they are being screwed until it's too late. 

At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion may I suggest that they are actually the ones that are willing enough and have the reasonable expectation of wages? 

You can suggest it, but I respectfully disagree.  30 to 40k for a programmer with 5 years of experience is ridiculously low considering the cost of education in the US.  Why bother spending 100k for a decent engineering degree when you will spend the next 20 years paying it off, reducing your usable income even more? 

Companies requesting one of these visa spots should be required to post the job opening on a consolidated website where American job-seekers can search and express interest in the position. 

They'll just relist the ad with a laundry list of tool experience few people get exposed to and incidental to the job, while ensuring the offshore staffing company at least gives their applicants the manuals. 

Increase the number of H-1B visas, which allow companies to hire foreigners for key jobs they can't fill with Americans.  The number of H-1Bs would rise from 65,000 to at least 115,000; there would also be an adjustable cap that could rise up to a maximum of 300,000 visas

Where are these 115,000 to 300,000 jobs that American's can't do? 

Hiring American workers to do those 115,000 to 300,000 jobs isn't the real issue.  When it really comes down to it, companies don't want to pay American workers prevailing wages.  It's cheaper for them to bring people over on a work visa and pay them less. 

Same thing is happening in Australia.  But in addition to that, nobody wants to train everyone.  There are very few tech positions advertised in this country that aren't at a senior level.  As a result, none of our graduates are aiming for A/P roles. 

In grad school I learned that a lot of people not just want to come here for an education but stay here.  We do a lot to bring people from all over the world and its a wonderful thing.  However, its very hard for them to stay here and use the education they gained.  We are long overdue for reform. 

It wouldn't be a big deal if Indian programmers weren't so willing to work for such a poor wage.  I have worked with several H1B visa holders who make less than half of their American counterparts for the same work.  Granted, the work tends to be poor, at least from the extremely large Indian company I have had the displeasure of dealing with, but the idiot MBAs that hire this company tend not to realize they are being screwed until it's too late. 

At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion may I suggest that they are actually the ones that are willing enough and have the reasonable expectation of wages? 

You can suggest it, but I respectfully disagree.  30 to 40k for a programmer with 5 years of experience is ridiculously low considering the cost of education in the US.  Why bother spending 100k for a decent engineering degree when you will spend the next 20 years paying it off, reducing your usable income even more? 

That is a problem with the education system.  I may not know much about graduate education, but at the undergraduate level public universities are very, very cheap for locals.  At the place I study (private) more than 35% of US students have full/half scholarships, while I pay the entire 60k every year. 

Maybe some places are worse, but aren't there many options to spend significantly less than 100K?