They got nothing in return for handing Trump money except for a national emergency. 

John McIntosh via Foter.comRepublican and Democratic lawmakers agreed this week on a border enforcement funding deal to avert another government shutdown.  Both houses of Congress have approved it, and President Donald Trump signed it—and then declared a national emergency to get the balance of the wall funds that Congress refused to give him.  Senate Leader Mitch McConnell has already said he'll support the declaration. 

So after all the drama of the last few months, did the Democrats accomplish anything beyond virtue-signaling to their base?  And the resounding answer is: No. 

After House Speaker Nancy Pelosi pledged not to give Trump even a dollar for his wall, Democrats agreed to hand him $1.375 billion to build a 55-mile long barrier in the Rio Grande Valley.  They also agreed to hand the Department of Homeland Security an additional $1.7 billion for border security, including more officers, more technology at ports of entry, and, as an afterthought, some humanitarian aid. 

Even worse, Democrats capitulated to Trump's demand for statutorily expanding detention bed capacity to house unauthorized and fleeing immigrants, the lynchpin of his draconian enforcement actions. 

Handing Trump some wall money might have been worth it if Democrats had got something in return like legalizing the DREAMers (folks who've grown up in America after being brought to the country without proper authorization as minors) and others whose temporary protected status Trump scrapped.  But Democrats failed to even put this on the table despite many hints by Republicans that they would consider a DREAMer-for-wall deal.  Nor did they make the wall money conditional on Trump refraining from declaring a national emergency, which he's been hinting at for months. 

Why did the Democrats botch this so badly?  Because they were motivated by two contradictory concerns.  They wanted to rally their base rather than solve the issue, while at the same time they did not want to be blamed for another government shutdown.  So they stared down the presdient for a while and then blinked. 

Democrats originally insisted on limiting funding for "only" 35,000 detention beds with the stipulation that no more than 16,500 would be used for housing immigrants picked up from the interior, i.e. not at the border.  This was a very modest attempt to restore some sanity—and humanity—to this administration's interior enforcement policies, given that the first thing that Trump did upon assuming office was scrap former President Barack Obama's priority enforcement program.  This program, implemented at the tail end of Obama's term after he'd set deportation records, confined ICE to rounding up only those aliens in the interior who had criminal records while leaving others alone.  But Trump made everyone fair game, including those who've lived peacefully in the country for years. 

To aid Trump's efforts, the Republican-controlled Congress gave him funds for around 40,500 detention beds.  This represented about a 6,500 increase over previous years.  But Trump exceeded even that inflated authorization, maintaining a daily population of 48,000 detained immigrants—including 20,000 from the interior. 

Where did that money come from?  Basically, by raiding the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other agencies within the Department of Homeland Security, arguably a violation of the Anti-Deficiency Act, the federal law that prohibits agencies from diverting funds not explicitly authorized by Congress.  All in all, DHS spent $4.1 billion on ICE's detention and removal operations in 2018, a 30 percent spike over the $3.2 billion spent in 2016.  This is an unconscionable waste given that border apprehensions have dropped precipitously over the last decade, Trump's fear mongering about the migrant caravan notwithstanding. 

Trump says that any cutbacks in this detention capacity would force him to release violent aliens.  But that's simply not true.  An analysis last summer by Syracuse University's Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse found that 75 percent of the immigrants typically detained have no prior convictions or have been engaged in only minor offenses like traffic violations.  This means that even if Trump's detention capacity were cut in less than half, no violent offenders would need to be released. 

But that didn't stop Trump from demanding funding for 52,000 beds during the budget negotiations.  The Democrats didn't give him that but they agreed to fund 40,520 beds—or 5,520 over their original offer and pretty much what the Republican-controlled Congress handed Trump last year.  Worse, this is not a hard statuary cap so Trump can keep trying to exceed it by ginning up funds from elsewhere as he's been doing. ( It's unclear right now if Democrats are insisting on any limits on housing interior detentions.) 

Democrats are trying to sell this as a reasonable compromise by claiming that this funding level represents a 17 percent cut in detention over current levels.  But Trump was maintaining those levels using unauthorized funds.  In other words, far from calling out Trump for illegally exceeding Congressional limits, Democrats are using Trump's detention levels as their official baseline. 

So, all in all, Trump got more money for a border barrier, enhanced border security, and increased detention capacity.  And he'll declare a national emergency to get the rest of what he wants. 

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Every time I complain about having to foot the bill for K-12 education for illegal aliens, the OBC crowd informs me that the illegal alien parents pay taxes.  And when I point out the taxes paid con't cover the costs and I and other taxpayers are coming up with the difference, they come back with "plenty of US citizens don't play enough taxes to cover their kids' education either." 

So if that's the standard by which the OBC believes gov't benefits should be doled out, then what is the argument against making Food Stamps and any other program open to Illegal Aliens. 

Oh, great, Tulpoopy is here again to shit all over the thread, criticizing the posts of others, and saying nothing other than potty-mouth-breathing.  GET A LIFE, Tulpoopy! 

Tulpoopy is a stupid-head asshole, a jerk with a smirk, and utterly vapid empty-headed moron, who doesn't have 2 neurons to rub together.  Plus, he is a flat-earther, an anti-rational, anti-science duh-head. 

There, I have now "won the argument" Tulpoopy-style!!!  Do it Tulpoopy-style, it is really-really sexy! 

We shouldn't let illegal alien kids into school... We should kick them out of the country.  I don't think birthright citizenship should exist for people without at least one citizen parent, but even if we concede it does exist, and some illegals children are citizens, they should be sent home with their parents... Because anything else would be cruel of course!  Can't separate kids from their parents. 

The thing is, if the dreamers weren't some group that was being held up as being superior to ACTUAL Americans... They would be looked at for the sub par fucks they are.  Lower graduation rates, college rates, higher crime, etc.  They're not as bad as native born blacks or anything mind you, but they are not shining beacons of awesomeness either. 

We Koch / Reason libertarians need to be patient with the Democrats.  No, they don't win every battle — they failed to prevent Kavanaugh from joining the Supreme Court for example — but at least they're fighting against the white nationalist Handmaid's Tale villains who make up the Drumpf regime. 

I predict the 2020 Democratic Presidential nominee will campaign on an open borders platform.  In 2021 we'll have a President who will completely dismantle the government agencies responsible for that racist policy called "border enforcement." 

If we get open borders in this country, I'M OUT.  After a few years of that shit even Europe or Japan will be better than here.  Eastern Europe is getting pretty awesome lately, they've been talking about restoring firearms rights even so they won't be slaves anymore!  But I REALLY just want one decent Western European country to stop the out of control immigration and restore some of their rights... If they did I'd consider moving in a heartbeat with the direction this country is going. 

It's the particulars of the immigrants that matter dude.  People who make false equivalences between a German physicist, a Japanese engineer, a Somali dish washer, or a Mexican lawn guy are idiots.  THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.  You get completely different outcomes.  The USA has had too many shit people come in.  Hell, even Canada has a VASTLY better immigrant mix because of their immigration policies being slanted towards skilled immigrants. 

I am a high income person, so no problem there for going elsewhere.  Because of my heritage, I have almost guaranteed immigration rights in a couple countries in Europe who have "right of return" laws in their immigration system, Germany being one of them.  A high income, mostly ethnic German moving to Germany IS NOT the same as letting in an illiterate Somali.  Germany should stop letting in illiterate 3rd worlders, but probably stay pretty open to civilized immigrants who can get in on merit... Same as the US should do. 

I could ALMOST put up with their socialist crap economically if they had freedom of speech and gun rights.  I wouldn't like it, but if the USA is turning into a 3rd world country...

The problem is Europe is as bad or worse than here on 90% of fronts right now.  There are a couple areas where they seem like they may right the ship before we do though, so if we go on the rocks Europe may be better than here.  It's a sad day to even consider such a thought, but it may end up reality. 

How many times do I need to tell you that I am your Mom!  Please read carefully, if you can!  SQRLSY One is a secret code name for me, your Mom!  Now please come up out of the filth and diseases that you have spread all over MY basement, and pay me my rent, as you usually do, by having sex with me, and sharing your diseases with me!  You are SHORT on your rent, motherfucker! 

Democrats could have put language into the spending bill that prohibited Trump from reprograming funds to build the wall and Trump would have been unable to declare his emergency to build his wall.  The fact that the Democrats didn't do that and agreed not only to fund part of the wall but also declined to stop Trump from reprograming funds to build the rest says that Democrats don't have a problem with the wall being built.  They just don't want to be seen as helping him but are fine with him building it and presumably Trump not being able to use it as an issue against them in the election. 

This is it.  Also, him having to declare an emergency to do it means they'll get to file lawsuits against him so they can continue to virtue signal for many months more.  Then when they finally lose those lawsuits they can rail against the conservative SCOTUS and try to highlight that as an election issue.  Meanwhile they'll be planning ways to extend executive power even more the next time they have the office.  The Democrats "got nothing" out of this, but they still won. 

Any lawsuits will probably be dismissed for lack of standing, since unless I'm missing something major the courts have consistently held that neither the Executive nor the Legislative branch has standing to sue the other as to the performance of their duties.  I'm willing to be corrected on this. 

Democrats did get Trump to go back on his campaign promise to reduce the deficit by signing this monstrosity.  Also they got him to go back on his promise he made last year after signing the Omnibus never to sign another bloated spending bill which was crammed through Congress at the eleventh hour. 

Something inside me doubts that even the Democrats will call out Trump on his continued support of reckless spending. 

The Democrats doubled the debt in 8 years.  It is hard to see how their complaing about reckless spending will pass the laugh test.  If anyone gave a shit about spending and cutting spending were a winning issue, we wouldn't be 20 trillion dollars in debt or whatever it is. 

I would like to do something about spending as much as anyone.  But, you are dellusional if you think complaining about it is going to win any votes. 

Setting aside arguments on whether or not any of these are good policies, from a pure political point this battle was almost impossible for the current Democratic party to win where it counts, which is voter perception.  To win, the Democrats would need to demonstrate that they were equally concerned about border security, but differed in approach or wanted to balance it with how immigrants already in the country were treated. 

Instead, the optics turned into a fight solely about whether or not the US should even have a border with countless apologists in the MSM (and Reason) trying to explain how illegal immigration isn't really that bad.  For the segment of te country (including working class Dems) that believe otherwise, Trump came out as looking like the only person who cares about their interests - which was the entire point of the whole thing. 

Well said.  2020 will show the real winner in this, although that is a LONG way off and things can change. 

Haven't you been paying attention to the polls Reason has been citing?  The percentage of Americans who say "immigration is a good thing" has been increasing.  Democrats are smart to embrace open borders. 

The funny thing that Reason always likes to leave out though is that what people are thinking about when they say "immigration" is high skilled immigrants, that speak English, come here legally, and aren't criminals. 

This is shown over and over in polls when they ask detailed questions.  Also, a majority of Americans want to either keep the current level of immigration or reduce it sharply... NOBODY wants to increase it.  Especially not if it's uneducated peasants that don't speak English. 

It might make sense to increase immigration and the supply of migrant laborers IF we can get rid of most of the illegals.  And we should be selective.  Like pretty much every other country that isn't a disfunctional shithole. 

Telling people not to be concerned about the things they are concerned about doesn't usually work from a political standpoint. 

I have first hand familiarity with the portion of the country Trump is winning over.  My husband's family extended family is mostly white, working class, unionized, life-long dems who idolized JFK.  They are also some of the most racist people I have ever met. ( His uncle once remarked that he hated going to Canada because of all the foreigners there.)  Absolutely nothing about the dem's strategy in this fight would have appealed to them.  I also can't see them embracing the GND. 

It doesn't have anything to do with being racist... It has to do with the shitty immigrants being shitty. 

I'm part Mexican... I want 100% of illegal immigrants, ESPECIALLY the DACA fucks, deported.  I want any anchor babies born to illegals shipped off with their parents too, can't separate families! 

We don't need millions of people with an average of 8th grade education.  We also need to shit can chain migration for morons, and only allow in skilled immigrants. 

If we want to have a first world country, we need to bring in the kind of people who can support a first world economy... NOT illiterate peasants. 

Peasants drag the average standard of living down, skilled people pull it further up.  If you want to live in a 3rd world country, the world is FILLED with them, move there and leave the rest of us sane people in the USA alone. 

If you're trying to imply the average American is as uneducated as the average illegal immigrant... You're full of shit. 

Yeah, Buzzfeed writes to the lowest common denominator.  We DO have lots of idiots, nobody would argue otherwise. 

But statistically, the USA is way more educated than Mexico as a whole... And illegal immigrants are ONLY pulling from their lowest classes for the most part.  We're not having Mexican doctors coming in illegally to wash dishes, they're staying in Mexico because their life there is good already.  If ONLY Americans from trailer parks and ghettos were moving somewhere THAT would be a problem for that country too, and that's our exact situation with illegals in the USA. 

8th grade is the average education of an illegal immigrant.  In the USA at this point we average out to something like 2 years of college or so.  There's a difference. 

You're right.  The education level of the average American is substantially greater than that of the average Mexican.  And you are correct to point out we are getting below average Mexicans, as well as South Americans. 

We have no duty to be the dumping ground for the rest of the world's undesirables. 

Compared to the wild hysteria put forth by conservative media, illegal immigration ISN'T all that bad.  All of the statistical evidence shows that illegal immigration is good in some ways, bad in some other ways, but NOT this earth-shattering catastrophe that the Right likes to make it out to be.  In the main, they aren't invaders, they aren't terrorists, they aren't lazy welfare moochers, they aren't murderers and rapists.  So what do you expect Reason to do?  Cater to the people who use hysteria and anecdotes to make decisions? 

I really don't care that they broke this particular law, because the law itself is part of the problem from my perspective.  I really do think the war on illegal immigrants is analogous to the war on drugs.  I don't care if some pothead wants to get high in his house, and I don't care if some immigrant wants to cross the border without the correct papers from the state, even though both are breaking the law.  It only really matters if the pothead, or the immigrant, do things that violate the NAP. 

Intruding yourself into someone else's property is a violation of the NAP. 
The nation is entirely the property of the United States.  if the law-makers in that location say you must comply with certain provisions before you are allowed into this space, it is an aggression to defy that. 

You're wasting your time on Little Jeffy.  He makes this same fucking argument in every immigration article comments.  He gets slapped around and discredited, every time.  Then it's like none of that ever happened, and he does it again, insisting no one has made a counter argument. 

Jeffy is loathed by almost everyone here, and for this and other very good reasons.  Also, press him enough and he will call you racist.  Then later insist he never calls anyone racist.  He is a soft headed shitposter. 

Half of the stats Reason uses to support illegal immigration are bullshit if you look into them.  I admit that it's not like every single one is Ted Bundy, but on welfare and slinging crack on the side... But as a group they're considerably worse than any group in America, except black Americans, which everybody knows are dysfunctional as fuck. 

The bottom line is while I am paying for their free shit, and they're voting to take MORE of my money, and take away my freedoms, they can fuck right off.  I have no problem with Mexican doctors or engineers, but we sure as shit don't need more dish washers. 

Every illiterate 3rd world fuck we let in is one more straw on the camels back, and sooner or later the back will break.  I'd rather just not have the straw situation at all. 

Yeah.  Being told "You gotta take care of your own shit dude!"  goes a long way towards making people take care of their own shit!  How surprising!  Even if we fixed all that stuff though, there are several reasons they will likely remain more problematic than saaay Asians or whatever.  But improvement is improvement, so we should obviously get rid of the family destroying chaos creating laws we have. 

When I visited family down there, it was ridiculous.  The whole time I felt like I was in a third world country.  The look of everything, down to the crumbling infrastructure... All third world. 

Is it any surprise an area filled with people who make $15-30K a year at best can't support a modern first world standard of living with their tax dollars?  My home town in NorCal was nearly as bad.  It's smaller so has a slightly better handle on things, but I saw almost nothing but foreigners everywhere I went. 

I do NOT want to live in an America that is like those places... And that's what the whole US will become if we don't stop letting in endless backwards 3rd worlders.  Skim their doctors, but we don't need the peasants. 

Disagree.  We want as many skilled immigrants as possible, but we also want honest, hard-working people of all types.  Many of our forebearers were not skilled or educated but did amazing things when they were set free of government interference.  Just use the system and get here legally. 

Here's the thing though dude: That ENTIRE way of thinking is mostly useless, because the world has changed. 

Back in the day 90% of jobs didn't require any education, they didn't even require one being smart but lacking formal education. 

That world is gone, never to return.  With automation there will be no immediate purpose for uneducated people, and no way to climb up the food chain either. 

Even if there were, why should we support a generation or two of welfare drains on ourselves, so theoretically someones grand kids can become self supporting? 

Especially when we can just allow in a doctor instead, who is pulling their weight day one.  We have far more people wanting to move here than we can ever reasonably take, so why would we NOT want to just take the ones that make good money, pay enough in taxes to support their cost, commit fewer crimes, etc. 

The only reason to allow in illiterate peasants is as a self harming altruistic act... And I'm just not down for making my life harder, and screwing the country up more, to be "nice" or whatever.  When my ancestors came in they WERE doing the useful jobs that were central to the economy... Working in steel, farming, etc.  We should have the same common sense policies, thing is what skills matter has changed, so we need to adjust for that. 

PEW Research on Hispanic Americans, breakdowns by immigration and foreign birthhttps://goo.gl/WBi1BV
Hispanics Lean Democratic over 3 to 1https://goo.gl/hxSJHi
Hispanics Want Bigger Government Providing More Services over 3 to 1

The preference for big government is general across all immigrants to the US. 

But for incompetence, Hillary *would* have won.  The Deep State corruption never comes to light *at all*.  All the criminals get rewarded and given further power.  They expand their criminality to make sure a Trump can never ever happen again.  And then they christen ten, twenty million illegals as shiny new big government voters. 

Criminal one party rule by the Deep State Globalists forever and ever. 

As it is, we're most likely going down that road anyway.  Instead of Trump draining the Deep State, the Deep State is draining the Trump administration.  They're running down the clock on the Trump administration, so that they are never held accountable for their crimes. 

It's looking like Trump is just a speed bump to their eventual rule.  He hasn't changed the destination, he's only delayed it. 

If the Dems get in before we've drained the swamp and built the wall (where the Wall is just a proxy for ending mass immigration), the destination is inevitable. 

And now you have potential demoncrap presidential nominees saying they would support removing what barriers we now have on the border. 
What more of an open borders corner could these people be stuck in? 

A model 3,666 Tulpanator Robot Anthropoid Cyborg from the future has arrived HERE, to exterminate ALL rational discourse, with grade-school insults!!!  Batten the hatches, and clutch DESPERATELY, to the hope that the model 3,666 Tulpanator Robot Anthropoid Cyborg will find some grade-school site to retreat to, and leave the rest of us the Hell alone, to have adult conversations! 

Yes, Government Almighty is WAAAAAY the hell too big, and instead of addressing this issue, a lot of retards show up here to defend over-inflated Government Almighty.  Worse yet, utterly brainless idiots like Tulpoopy and Muzzled Woodchipper show up to shit all over the thread, and pollute it with brainless insults.  These are my problems. 

Why do you classify education as analogous to welfare?  That seems wrong. 

For starters, most places have some sort of truancy law.  Meaning that it's illegal for a parent not to send their child to school.  So it seems unfair to bash immigrants for "consuming welfare" in the form of education, when it's illegal for them not to send their kids to school.  What are they supposed to do? 

Secondly, a lot of people get upset about people using welfare because they are presumed to be lazy moochers (whether they actually are or not is another question).  What have kids done to deserve being regarded as "lazy moochers" for going to school? 

I didn't say I was in favor of truancy laws.  I said that if there are going to be truancy laws, then it is unfair to criticize illegal immigrants, or anyone for that matter, for consuming the "welfare" of public education, when they are compelled by law to send their kids to school. 

The fact that some stupid, cunt, prog retard, foreign born journalist, sits here and tells me what I MUST do with MY country infuriates me. 

I have family that goes back before the Revolutionary War in this country.  My family settled the wild west and has a town named after us... What did this stupid slut ever do to earn her place here, let alone the right to DEMAND that I allow in even more retards like her? 

A lot of the things people say are "fair" about our system are anything but.  First generation people shouldn't be able to vote, let alone hold public office where they're deciding things for people that are actually from here.  And they shouldn't mouth off so much about how HORRIBLE the natives are in a country where they are allowed in either.  It's utter bullshit.  It's like going to someones house and then nagging them about everything while you're a guest. 

"75 percent of the immigrants typically detained have no prior convictions or have been engaged in only minor offenses like traffic violations." 

Is this supposed to prove that detaining illegal immigrants is bad policy?  1 in 4 illegal immigrants is a felon, a bad hombre, and you think detaining a populous with this rate of criminal activity is a bad thing? 

You just can't help collectivizing and generalizing about illegal immigrants, can't you?  If 1 in 4 commit a serious crime, then the entire population must be regarded suspiciously as a wanna-be murderer.  Right? 

100% of criminal border crossers have broken the law. 
Calling them immigrants does not make them immigrants. 
Immigrants use the legal process established by US law. 
People who sneak across the border all all criminals.  Period. 

Jeff: Hispanics are the 2nd most criminal group in the USA.  There's a REASON to be suspicious of them, especially the illegal ones.  Because they commit crimes at higher rates than everybody but blacks! 

Note that nobody worries about Asians killing people... That's because they have a lower murder rate than even white Americans.  If Hispanics didn't commit so many damn crimes, they wouldn't get a bad rep.  It's all quite simple. 

Screwed up cultures can cause any race to do crazy shit... But the thing is, it doesn't really matter practically speaking.  We can see historically that there are instances of certain ethnic groups being problematic for literally centuries, and never adapting.  We don't know what groups will or won't adapt.  So letting in any group that would be unacceptable if they don't improve is playing Russian roulette. 

Dreamers shouldn't be made citizens.  Citizenship allows them to migrate their entire families here.  It would be like allowing a child to keep the proceeds of a bank robbery because the kid dindu nuffin. 

Give them citizenship, they were kids and had no say in the matter.  But then deport the parents, because they did and chose to engage in human trafficking, harboring illegal aliens, transporting illegal aliens...

All you wall-builders are making excuses for the ever-increasing power of the Collective Hive! 

The collective hive mandated WAY too many licenses (& other regs), before we're allowed to earn an honest living... Put too many of us into poverty.  To "help" with this poverty problem that The Collective Hive created, The Collective Hive gave us welfare.  Welfare then attracts too many illegal sub-humans, sometimes, so to fix THAT problem, The Collective Hive now wants e-verify and giant border walls and giant border armies… And now also property confiscations for wall-building… So I suppose The Collective Hive will next fire up the military draft to fix THAT problem! ( Lack of a large enough wall-and-army forces). 

Those of us who like individual freedom, would like for Government Almighty to SHRINK, for once, instead of always making itself BIGGER to fix all of the problems created by Government Almighty in the first place!  And just about every day, I see arguments on these pages, that justify the ever-increasing might and power of The Collective Hive, especially when I want to hire, or otherwise associate with, an illegal sub-human. 

It is amusing to see how much overlap there is between the pro-wall arguments and the typical progressive arguments:

Both want to centralize power in the government to decide questions over individual property rights. 
Both want to impose onerous regulations on all businesses in order to further their aims. 
Both have no problem with thugs with badges running around harming people if it means that their vision is upheld. 
Both have to have a target to demonize and scapegoat in order to create tribal loyalty and solidarity for their tribe. 
Both will accuse you of being unpatriotic and un-American if you disagree with their vision. 

I don't claim controlling immigration is NAP compliant... But who cares? 

The real world benefits are too great to pass up.  True open borders means no 1st world country can exist.  PERIOD.  Because the world is filled with uneducated peasants who don't understand freedom. 

These people vote wrong, are a drain on taxpayers, and just generally a pain in the ass.  So why tolerate their presence? 

Can you IMAGINE the things the USA might be getting done if all our political capital wasn't being WASTED on talking about the virtues of allowing in 8th grade educated third world peasants???  We might actually be addressing real fucking issues that matter.  Instead we waste all our energy dealing with bullshit like this.  Just kick them all the fuck out, hardcore crackdown so hard none will ever dare try to come back, then we can move onto dealing with ACTUAL problems. 

Once again I didn't agree with Trump's decision today but the craziness and shrieking of the OBC, especially nimrods like Shikha and Nick, are starting to make me empathetic to it.  Especially after it was publicized that prior to this, there were 30 emergency powers already in place from previous presidents.  No, that doesn't excuse Trump but it does make me wonder why this is the one that is the signs of the end time and not the 30 preceding declarations?  Because Orange Man Bad and borders evil. 

Yes, that's why we have the Interstate Commerce clause, is to keep troglodyte localist-provincialists self-centered jerks and chauvinists from one State, try and better themselves by restricting free trade between the states.  Good jobs for good Texans, and to hell with the folks from New Mexico! 

Too bad that the WTC (World Trade Commission or whatever it is called) hasn't enough teeth to prevail against those who worship international borders...

Also, surprise, surprise, surprise everyone's favorite one too logical fallacies Jeff and SQRSLY are on here to lecture everyone about how evil we are because we believe that borders should mean something.  And making false analogies that being for secured borders means we're anti-immigrant. 

Well, if you're not for crack selling, murdering, rapist immigrants... Doesn't that make you anit immigrant??? 

I mean having any standards at all is supposedly immoral and all...

YET none of them DARE run it through to THAT logical conclusion.  They always say OBVIOUSLY you shouldn't let in known murderers, because they're bad.  If that's true, why are net negative tax payers any different in principle?  They'll be harming society on net too. 

So where is the magical line Jeff, you cucked out bitch.  Wife beating?  DUI?  Jay walking?  Explain to me EXACTLY where the line is where it stops being reasonable to allow somebody into the country. 

This article is al little premature.  Like at least a whole year premature.  Let's see if Trump gets a single mile of fencing built using this "emergency" declaration.  I seriously doubt it.  Typical Trumpite, declare victory before the game has been played, and a year from now, when the only wall built is what has just been authorized, claim that the wall is finished.  Furthermore, I thought this was a libertarian forum, not a partisan pecking ground for Trumpites or their opposite New Green Deal types.  All this shows is that the government can always find a way to try and spend our money, which is a bad thing and nothing to wish for. 

Ann is actually a lawyer, and unlike Shikha, not an imbecile, so I fear that Shikha got her way and just doesn't know it. 

To be fair to Shikha, she's hardly shy about her leftism.  She's been out of the closet forever as a self proclaimed "libertarian progressive". 

And did you miss when Nick went full "No True Communist"? 
"Totalitarians professing communism killed millions of people, but this analogy is flawed.  Hitler was the leader of Nazism, Stalin the leader of...Stalinism, not communism. "https://goo.gl/xnJ8CT

What a moronic article.  Poll after poll showed Republicans and Trump namely took most of the blame for the shutdown.  They got good press and it played well to their base.  Mission accomplished on their end. 

I was PISSED when he backed down with the shutdown.  He should have let the welfare run out and all the wild welfare animals would have started rioting, showing people how useless and shitty all these people/programs are.  But the Dems probably ALSO would have caved. 

BUT I think Trump was playing at least 3D chess here for once.  He was probably thinking of doing exactly this the whole time and didn't really care either way.  The way it has actually turned out has been pretty decent. 

Keep rounding up all those fuckers and shipping them out God Emperor Trump!  NO amnesty for illegal DACA fuckers either!  And build that wall!!! 

The one thing the Democrats did get out of this deal (if trump's national emergency declaration isn't stopped in the courts) is the excuse to use the executive branch, whenever they get a President elected, to do whatever is next on their liberal agenda. 

Republicans don't realize that they are digging their own graves with this move.  They can't apply to themselves the same standard that they do the democrats.  Where are the Republicans willing to stand up against executive overreach? 

The Right has neutered themselves for decades withholding their lawful powers for fear of the Democrats responding in kind, never noticing that they've also spent decades whining about the criminal, lawless ways of the Dems. 

Without question, the republican party is little more than the party of opposition.  But they need to demonstrate that they are better than the criminal, lawless Dems rather than merely following in their criminal, lawless footsteps, always a few chess moves behind. 

The ENTIRE reason the country has gone to shit is because the left has played dirty for half a century or more, and the right tisk tisked them about it, while allowing the left to keep all the wins they gained through bullshit means. 

If you agree to a boxing match with somebody, and they pull out a knife, you don't just sit there and get stabbed... You pull out a knife.  Or better yet you pull out a gun, since the rules are out the window, and you take the dishonest piece of shit out.  If you try to play by rules when the other side doesn't YOU LOSE.  America the last few decades shows this quite obviously. 

The huge lumbering behemoth government is incapable or unwilling to regulate voting rolls or tax rolls or welfare rolls.  People in other countries are being taught by social workers without borders how to game the mess once they get here.  This is Cloward-Piven taken to it's highest form. 

What's wrong with throwing people that break laws in jail cells Tony?  Is it a horrible thing to throw DUI drivers in cells?  People who commit check fraud?  How about identity theft, which most illegals commit. 

Piss off.  If Shitma was ONLY advocating things that were sane and sensible, vs let EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the world into the USA, because anything else makes you LITERALLY HITLER, then people wouldn't bitch so much.  But she's a lunatic.