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Civility Lab 4

Monty Python's French Subtitled Film Sketch (a preview of the park sitter movement? (5 min 47 sec)

How much do you get paid to post your "Posts", Luddly?

Might as well shut down the U of Arizona's Department of Mining if we're not going to allow their graduates to find jobs near Tucson. Total waste of taxpayer dollars to fund a Department of Mining with so much opposition to mining in this town. The University can use those dollars to open up more courses in useful studies like journalism and philosophy.

OWS is just like the tea party when the tea party started. A group voicing certain specific issues that most Americans identify with and an overall dissatisfaction with government ie republican and democrat government. The status quo. The tea party has been hijacked into the GOP on steroids. All the faults of that half of government multiplied ten fold. Social conservatism, mindless support for their big government(military, police, homeland security nazi), and the insane crony capitalism that ruined the economy. Their few remaining supporters will endlessly tell you that this isn't true but they were the first to paint the OWS protesters as a single minded organized group with a rigid ideology.

Wall Street financial sector has become too disconnected from reality. It's crooked, secret and dangerous to everybody else. The masters of the universe, or as Bill Gates called them "The Smartest Guys in the Room" figured out how to redivide the pie in their own favor without adding to it and, as the Wall Street Journal reports median household income in the United States declined 7 percent from 2000 to 2010, the worst ten-year performance in more than forty years. Projected increases over the next decade will not be enough to regain the lost income, which means a full two decades of stagnation. Nobody evens pretends to believe that the financial sector has added value to America’s economy and society over the past two decades. Financial “innovations” ended up expanding risk, not opportunity, and they have robbed the rest us of 20 years of our life, robbed us of our money and robbed us of our opportunites. And the real rub is, the reaon populists are out on the streets, the reason Tea Party people started protesting in the first place, and the reaosn poor Woodstock-looking ppeople are camping out in the streets today, is not that the world is divided between haves and have nots, not that some are obscenely wealthy and some are obscenely poor; no, it's that in America we expect the elites to actually care about the rest of society, not just themsleves. And the elites have not held up their end of the social bargain. History shows that when elites fail to discharge the responsibilities their privileges entail, populist revolts ensue. America’s elites ignored this time-honored truth, and they are now beginning to reap what they have sowed. This how the universe works. It's proper and good. A vice chairman of Goldman Sachs recently made this comment about the financial sector: “We have to tolerate the inequality as a way to achieve greater prosperity and opportunity for all.” We have a lot more of one and a lot less of the other two. It's not right and we all know it. Populist revolt continue!

Ha! Good luck enforcing it. Maybe they can invent a camera that can catch this one too. Must be pretty confusing to be a copper these days.

If you'd like to read what Coulter actually said in her column, you can find that here. Just to prime the pump, here's how it starts: By spending the last three decades leveling accusations of "racism" every 10 seconds, liberals have made it virtually impossible for Americans to recognize real racism -- for example, the racism constantly spewed at black conservatives. In the last year alone, a short list of the things liberals have labeled "racist" include: -- Being a Republican; -- Joining the tea party; -- The word "the" (Donald Trump's statement that he has a "great relationship with the blacks"); -- References to Barack Obama's playing basketball (Trump again); -- Using Obama's middle name; -- Scott Brown's pickup truck; -- Opposing Obamacare; -- Opposing Obama's stimulus bill; -- Opposing Obama's jobs bill. The surge in conservative support for Herman Cain confuses the Democrats' stor line, which is that Republicans hate Obama because he's black. Racial indignation doesn't come honestly to right wing - Quote -26 +50 line, hich is that Republicans hate Obama because he's black. Cain is t ice as black as Obama. (Possible Obama campaign slogan: "Too Black!") ... Ever notice how folks whose livelihoods are dependent on the Grievance Industry, like Pitts, get so indignant when confronted with facts? Reminiscent of cockroaches scattering when you turn on the lights.

Dealing with a bank these days just shows the low mentality of people these days or that they are Masochists. I dropped my bank 15 years ago after 25 years with them because some suit back east denied me a loan. The next day I signed with a credit union and had a loan for the amount I wanted in 2 hrs. Banks and their greedy stockholders will become like the dinosaurs if they continue their greedy ways. Also I can use any other credit unions ugly teller or go inside and get money without being charged any fees like the one just around the corner from me.

They don't want jobs. They want a handout.

Still doesn't explain why Dodd and Frank are the first names you mentioned. Deflecting blame on them is a mainstream republican talking point. The banking deregulation was claimed to be libertarian/smaller government but that is a total lie. It's about using government to make your company and industry more powerful. Why are trying to turn the blame from men like Sandy Weill, Chuck Prince and Vikram Pandit? Probably don't even know who they are

If the Komen foundation, the american cancer society and whoever else takes your money claiming to be searching for a cure actually did something constructive it would be a miracle. They are not truly interested in the well-being of cancer patients, only in perpetuating their organizations. Research into the same old treatments isn't helping, but if there ever were a true cure for cancer these charlatans would be out of business.

Look at it this way, this group of Occupiers has brought more money to Tucson than Rio Nuevo.

This drone can fly for 30 hours. For a long duration mission it takes 6 people a day to fly one, assuming an 8 hour shift. These are hunter- killers in the military and don't necessarily fly directly to a specific target at launch, just a programmed patrol pattern that takes over if the satellite link fails. BP uses them as eyes in the sky and mission duration should be at least 24 hours or it's a waste of money to even launch.

Who cares what Grijalva says, wants, needs, or breaths?

The article about her said nothing about her taking her kids to the various fast food joints and feeding them that junk. Lot of assumptions being made here.

Pros: Better than Call Center Jobs Cons: Less people Dependent on the Idiots with too much Political Power You decide... Are you responsible for yourself or are you under the sheeple influence?

What Pitts calls a primal scream, some call a childish tantrum.

Yep it's a give away to foreign interests. They make massive profits on the copper ore we get a handful of temporary jobs and whatever environmental cleanup arises.

Actually there are only one or two liberals in close range...

You guys work way too hard at this kind of thing. Very Tucson Weekly. In the name of common sense linguistics, it's not "occupiers", it's "protesters." (And, for the record, it's not "migrants", it's "illegal immigrants.") And for the record "illegal immigrants" are "migrants"

It is amazing that even though there is a system in place for people from other countries to apply for Visas and citizenship, yet people like YOU continually and blindly attempt to accuse those who are against illegal immigration of being bigots, racist, and lacking compassion. For one, just walking across another country's border should not be easy as neither should those here illegally getting benefits or jobs. Second, it is not our fault those who come here illegally believe they are above following the rules of the immigration system and people know there are consequences for being in a country illegally.

Wow! 112 comments on the president taking the weekend off. Get a grip people!

If we didn't have to contend with "minority majority" districts, redistricting would be a much simpler and fairer process. The very act of carving out "minority majority" districts guarantees two things: 1) the "minority majority" districts will almost certainly fall to Democrats; and 2) all other districts created will default to being much more "majority majority" thus ensuring those districts are even more predominantly non-hispanic. Just another way the Democratic Party seeks to divide Americans into classes and ethnic groups. Is it any accident that of the 47 "minority majority" seats in the U.S. House of Representatives, that 45 of them are held by Democrats? Can't we all just get along as Americans for once?

We have the technology for every voter to directly participate in every government decision. Representative democracy resulted from communes growing too large to allow everyone to directly participate in the discussion and decision. Political theory and common sense tell you that pure democracy is the same as pure communism - the technology we have would allow the United States to become a pure democratic state.

I get it now, CEO's aren't allowed to have successful businesses (that employ people no less) AND have a high salary. I mean, it was their money and everything that they have risked to make that business profitable, shame on them for reaping the benefits of it. What should be a CEO's salary? 50k? 100k? Minimum Wage? Nothing? If the owner of the place I currently work at made a profit of 2 million dollars I could care less. That is what he gets for having a successful business, and grinding it out through the bad years. If on the flip side the business failed, he closed shop and had to file bankruptcy, that is what he gets for having a failing business. With the risk comes the reward. It's just like the NFL and NBA players demanding more money because the owners make a lot of money. It is their team, be grateful you are getting your multimillion dollar contract and are getting PAID to play a sport others play for fun.

Cyd D, if you believe that one, I've got some swamp land to sell you on the west side of the river. Oh, wait Gadsden has first dibs on that plot.

George, What you call the 'Masses', I call the working class, emphasis of 'working'. BTW I don't have any TV, flat screen or otherwise. Try doing without yours. You might learn something.

So what? Seriously? 47% of Americans receive a refund equal to or greater than the amount they paid in Federal Income Taxes. EVERYONE should pay something in Federal Taxes. BTW, don't even try and fold Active Duty into this. They are in harms way on a regular basis. Suzy Creamcheese working at the local Target, or elsewhere, is NOT. Your son is making way less than his counterparts in the civilian community. Take a poll of Active Duty and I bet the overwhelming majority would say they should not have to pay taxes at all because of the low pay and hazardous conditions. And yes, I know about tax free in combat zones. As far as your bailout funds argument goes, Republicans (and the Tea Party) did NOT support any bailouts, so that is a weak argument at best.

I'd like to know what happened at the Forest Service meeting with Jim Upchurch at Desert Diamond in Sahuarita on Oct 22. For whatever reason, I have not been able to find anything in any papers I read. If you were there or have good info about how it went, please post it here. BTW The Elgin meeting scheduled for Nov 5 has been changed to December 10. The meetings at the Desert Diamond Casino were canceled for political reasons. Tohono O’odham Nation Chairman Ned Norris Jr. objected as to how the meetings were scheduled. Link: http://www.gvnews.com/news/confusion-surrounds-rosemont-comment- period/article_92f7411c-fd2e-11e0-b431-001cc4c03286.html

If you want to play you have to pay — to the politicians.

Broken windows theory of policing One man's treasure is another man's trash and today's article about the losing effort on the part of the City to keep up with the "graffiti problem" illustrates the incredible tunnel vision of our local city officials and law enforcement. In some cities graffiti is considered an art form (i.e. New York City) and many famous mainstream artists like Shephard Farley, Banksy, and even Jean-Michel Basquiat used spray paint and bare walls/billboards/garbage cans to express their dissatisfaction with the mainstream and elitist art world. Since our schools have seen all their extra programs cut (i.e. arts, theatre) the youth of today have no constructive outlet for all that angst and creative energy. I for one would love to see some walls set aside in the downtown Arts district (the back walls of the Toole Warehouse) that are free and open for all artistic expression. Give everyone a 10' by 10' space and even provide some donated art supplies and let the young-uns beautify our city. Don't believe me on the power of graffiti, then Google the words YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL and BIRMINGHAM ALABAMA and you'll read a great story about the power of graffiti words over an overpass and how it can change attitudes. It seems our police have been in the news quite a bit lately showing a heavy hand towards mostly penny ante small misdemeanor type crimes. City of Tucson Facts 1 Arrests/Citations for Marijuana possession/paraphernalia for last year (2010): 5,300 2.Arrests/Citations for Criminal tresspassing (first week )given to OCCUPY TUCSON civil protesters. 115 3 Number of City of Tucson Dept. heads that don't live in the city. 1 (Hint he's the police chief and responsible for items #1 & 2 on this list) Cost to the Taxpayers for pursuing low level petty crimes PRICELESS Since you can't put a price tag on hypocrisy! So I suggest involving the teens in any graffiti abatement efforts to see if there is an alternative to the black hole of spending like a drunken sailer on shore leave. Why is there only one way to do things if you're the City of Tucson? Just give out a yearly contract to one company and why not diversify and have multiple outlets that can clean up the graffiti that is not welcome?

...with all the complaining about Obama and his crazy ideas it should provoke the question. What does it say about the average American voter who elected him?...

There were about 10,000 people living in the Patagonia area at turn of last century to service the mining operations at Harshaw, Duquesne, Mowry, and Washington Camp. Cattle and mining are the foundation of Patagonia.

Claude Reigns!

Can we implement this for congress and PRESIDENT also

The fact is, none of these people have any idea of what "fair share" is....they simply want more. How much should the rich pay....more. How much should a bus boy make...more. How much is fair...more. More is not an economic plan.

This is the trouble when initiatives are on the ballot for the voters. We are not a democracy but rather a representative republic. These things should have been decided by our representatives instead of an "Independent redistricting commission". Now there is a special screening panel. We vote for or against our representatives. How are these people on the commission and panels (all appointed) held responsible? I hope Arizona eventually does away with the initiatives and propositions put continuously on the ballot.

And if your wife didn't go shopping, she (and you and the rest of your immediate family) would not have clothes, shoes, food, beverages, toothpaste, toiletries, beds, sheets, medicines... And if you and your wife didn't pay the mortgage/rent you would save THOUSANDS every year. And if you and your wife didn't pay the utilities you would save THOUSANDS every year. Some things are simply a necessary part of life. Get a new argument, the one you're using is vacuous.

Hope you check out the photos online. They are much nicer in color!

Here's one possible answer.

As for representation, as a Blue Dog ........ she voted with the Republicans most of the She has actually voted with Pelosi 89% of the time. Hardly a "blue dog" with that record.

I'd like to ask our Progressive friends a question. Just what percentage of the population of Mexico do you believe should be allowed to come and live in the United States? 1% 10% 50% All of them? Don't be shy now. I'd really like to know what you believe.

Who cares? Formula One has thumbed its nose at the US market for years while allowing itself to become a minor league event in North America. Several of its successful drivers have moved to Indy Car or NASCAR with mixed results and the F-1 leadership has continued to marginalize the sport. The televised races from overseas are shown only on cable on the Speed Network which is owned by NASCAR. When they get a product with some real racing the maybe someone will watch.

CLEVELAND, Ohio (CBS Cleveland) – An “Occupy Cleveland” protester tells police she was raped in her tent over the weekend.

Well said; I agree with your idea of discussing facts ... but then that would eliminate 90% of the postings (from the cheerleaders for both parties).

yes, cut and pasted direct quote.

John H Not gonna take that bet....

Let's be sure to distinguish opinions from facts.

Robinson is editorializing facts? ROTFLMAO! Eugene Robinson doesn't deal in facts. ...and that's a well known FACT!

H 15 . . - , M .C .

10-27/DD0C4FA9-82F5-47F8-9CD3-0049D23F54A0#!DD0C4FA9-82F5-47F8-9CD3- I don't really have a problem with "actual" millionaires paying a little more in taxes. I am just not in favor of using them as the money well for the politicans in DC (both parties). If there were truley going to focus on the finanical problems of this country, then it should be considered. But this isn't the case. It started with the Bush years and it's in full swing with Obama. We need the people who handle this nations money situation in the mind set of people who handle the checkbooks at home. Some times you are not going to like the cuts but some are going to have to be made. Also, I do support the fair or flat tax because everyone should pay taxes.

A very sad consequence for a naive, trusting person. Hopefully the perpetrator will be brought to justice. We've had flashers, thieves, now a rapist. Where's the order in this? Just wait - the cholera and body lice outbreaks are next with all the intimate sharing of personal space.

Both parties have become extremist organizations that care more about themselves than they do America. They need to go.

Excellent commentary by Bill Whittle. Thanks for sharing. I can relate - lived in very tight conditions for about 2 years many years ago. We truly do have the richest "poor" people on the planet.

Uhm, no, I don't think so. Actually I've never met a regular citizen who was in favor of the bailouts. Maybe you should rethink that brainwashing claim.

Thank God your back, haven't been able to keep awake to watch the weather. No matter what channel I tried, they put me to sleep.

You are right. Ann should have said, "Our Negro is Blacker than your Negro." I'll send her a note.

The only logical "long term healtcare plan",is National Healthcare.Not only for our veterans,but their families,neighbors.......And veterans yet unborn, to fight our eternal wars!

Yes, he promised to exit Iraq, but didn't say much about Afghanistan, which is where it seems all our troops are being re-deployed to, on HIS order.

Swine

Gabriela Mercer

No shout out to Betty White? epic.fail.

Some cry: Obama must go. ... then they hide in a corner not typing out a name to support and reasons why to support of who they believe should replace him. . . . . . . Weakness Noted . . . . . .

Sorry messed up before I posted... Point being: We get it, James. we get it.

Sad for them...used to be a nice place years ago

Ms. McPicking got her beak trimmed - get your nuggets out and stay out - I like it. Its a 'pro- business' decision that I can agree with. It may be fast food, I rarely buy, but they do a fair job - don't like it, don't go in. Simple.

This is just about the saddest irony i have seen in a long time. MEANWHILE, our dear Gov and Legis are convening and having special extra secret closed door meetings to talk about REDISTRICTING??? Tells you very very loud and clear what is really important to these people. It's NOT the kids of this state.

It's no wonder our country is going to hell in a handbasket.

So you like the reporting (shutting down speech) feature of Daily Pravda? Figures

I am sick to death of hearing about her. If the judge really wants to help her, then let her do her time like so she can really hit her bottom.

How many resources have been wasted because of the yahoos camped out in the park? Kick them out and use the resources more wisely!

We don't.

That's the second post about OWS being Anti-Semitic. Could you provide a link that will substantiate your claim?

Probably a lot; but you play by the rules in effect.

I haven't noticed a correlation between morality and religion. In fact my personal experience, after 65 years, is that some of the most immoral corrupt people I've known wore their fundamentalist religion on their sleeves.

I'll wear that PROUDLY!!!

The reality.

I guess this amounts to the start of the campaign season and some free ad space.

Actually, that's false. THey are closing the ones down that have been operating a "FOR PROFIT" business. CA states that mj dispenseceries must be NON-Profit. Not only were some of them FOR-PROFIT, they were also avoiding paying taxes, because you can't pay taxes and then hide that your are a for-profit business.

I j can' fig e if ha la commen i mean o be a ca ic. I j ha o be.

The money in politics lands in the pockets of the guys in DC. So why is Wall Street the target? Why don't these people go after the criminals in Congress, and the bureaucrats on the take? I just don't get it. Dodd and Frank's heads on pikes I would get (figuratively, of course). But nameless, faceless money men? No focus at all here.

You mean the ones that only have a 7th grade education?

Re: Hank... Over the past 10 years, we've seen the industry grow locally. We've lost a relative share. You're being a hypocrite in wanting to 'take back' all the tax dollars when we've been UNDER- investing relative to other regions in the Western US. It's counter-productive to take the little investment that's been put out there. And I see you, in particular, like to pile on as if the story is reporting that the local tourism economy is doomed. It's actually quite healthy. We have about 6 million visitors to Tucson annually. A staggering number, given that we have virtually no convention business (because of bad facilities) and we live in the shadow of Phoenix, a global city. Tourism is a $3 BILLION sector of our local economy. So, just chill out on the 'doom and gloom' witch hunt. RE: Doug C. When in doubt, always turn to salaries. It's a favorite tactic of the Star...shaming people for earning a paycheck. Hmmm...what do you think is appropriate for leadership in charge of a $3 billion economic sector? Give me a break. As for travel, perhaps you can think of a better way to reach our markets in Europe, Central America, and Asia. Lots of criticism there for something you know nothing about, buddy. What's more MTCVB is largely funded by bed tax and contributions from private industry. It is on the backs of the visitors - part of what makes tourism dollars so 'clean' in terms of economic development. So, get off the tax-payer high horse. Lastly, I don't work for MTCVB and I've never had a contract with a them. I'm an economic analyst - I do first through third order modeling on local economies and contextualize that with policy realities. Sadly, Tucson's elected leadership - fueled by apparent idiocy evident on these comment boards - ignore the advice of professionals time and again. It's why ALB, SLC, PDX, San Jose, etc. are all whipping Tucson in the convention biz. That's where I make my money. No surprise, that's where tourism business is booming. While the criticism is warranted, it needs context. And solutions are going to require more sophistication than stripping the relative pittance of public investment or punitively reducing salaries and driving away development talent. Broadly speaking, the collective attitude of the Tucson citizenry is more of a turn-off to investors and entrepreneurs than the bumbling of the political leadership. Quit crying over the spilled milk of Rio Nuevo. Look forward to what you, as a region, can do to compete for a slice of the $800 BILLION national tourism industry. But spraying gas on the fire of negative vibe in this town isn't going to get you there. It's a major turn-off to investors, entrepreneurs, visitors, and talent that otherwise might be an economic boon. I draw these conclusion from my own research, folks. Not that anyone cares. ;)

Time to grow up dear, you and all your hollywood wanna-be's need to face reality some time. If she violates any more court orders, throw her lawyer in the can as well.

Seems more like Chris has an "allegiance vow" for quality job and economic growth in this state rather than the stagnation/loss that currently exists. Too bad that attitude isn't shared by ALL in our community........

I wonder...TUSD?

So reporter, tell me what the problem is? From what I've read, there isn't one, just people who are here illegally getting what's coming to them.

If I did not have a job, I would gladly do this before I collected a government check.

The long-awaited vacation comes after a hectic three-day fundraising and speechmaking sprint across the country and with new poll numbers showing Americans none too pleased with Obama's handling of the economy as crucial midterm elections approach. Too bad it was't a hectic work week.. just hectic stumping

yes, becasue it saves a little part of our enviroment and keeps the coper here, boss.

So the Arizona Daily Statusquo endorses the corrupt ReHEEna Romero for City Council. What a surprise. I agree with Corazon at the top...the courageous thing to do would have been to say "y'know, we are not gonna take a position on this one" and leave it at that. Although ReHEEEEna is probably going to win by a large margin (because of the race politics that goes on in the city), the Daily Statusquo could have at least sent a message that she is not really doing her job. But instead, the Statusquo just cannot help seeing that (D) behind her name and going out on the limb for her. The political machine in Tucson is a sad sight to see. Like I have said many times before...GET OUT of Tucson people, and take your money and your business with you. Let the Progressives have the town and let them turn it into the Detroit of the Southwest. Leaving Tucson was a positively liberating experience for me!

Talking about storm....... where's Ken? Vaporize again.

Intelligence does not equal wisdom. And FBO has neither

Figures from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund show that officer deaths declined from 138 in 2008 to 116 in 2009. That's the fewest line-of-duty deaths since 1959, when there were 109, according to the data How dare he use these brave officers sacrifice as his soap box! Yes, they should be honored by all of us. If DC wants to honor them I'd say, give officers the equipment they need, support them in times of struggle and tend to their families. These idiotic quotes about deaths being down are a smoke screen. I personally would like to know more about these stats; who, where and what is their agenda. If they truly are down, it's probably due to less officers on the job. More cutbacks = fewer targets. DC needs to come down to the border and get their heads out of...(the clouds?)

The project was doomed from the beginning by Garfield Traub using insider information from former Tucson employees whom should have recused themselves from any consulting. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_abda985a-5fef-5f7a-ab27- b1acf1b5cadb.html

Let's have a look at article 6 of the Democratic Party 1860 platform. 6. Resolved, That the enactments of the State Legislatures to defeat the faithful execution of the Fugitive Slave Law, are hostile in character, subversive of the Constitution, and revolutionary in their effect. The Democrats favored keeping Blacks on Plantation. 7. Resolved, That it is in accordance with the interpretation of the Cincinnati platform, that during the existence of the Territorial Governments the measure of restriction, whatever it may be, imposed by the Federal Constitution on the power of the Territorial Legislature over the subject of the domestic relations, as the same has been, or shall hereafter be finally determined by the Supreme Court of the United States, should be respected by all good citizens, and enforced with promptness and fidelity by every branch of the general government. And they wanted the plantation to even larger. That was the Democratic Party of 1860, not much has changed?

This is a non-story; obviously planted to make Cain look bad. But, who could top Clinton or Edwards? Gestures should not count as sexual advances, otherwise most of us will have to give up our middle fingers.

How about this for an idea? 1. Eliminate all current federal and payroll taxes. This would also include things like the gas tax, sin taxes, estate tax, and any other taxes/fees currently imposed by the federal government. 2. Allow a $10000 deduction for each person in the household, including children. 3. Have two flat rates. 10% for the first $100,000 earned and 20% on any amount over that. 4. Eliminate all deductions. That would be much simpler than anything I've heard proposed and it would be fair to the poor since they wouldn't pay any federal taxes or payroll taxes. For example, for a family of four the first $40,000 would be tax free. If the household earned $60,000 they would only pay a 10% rate on $20,000, which comes out to $2,000. Compare that to just the amount they currently pay in Social Security taxes (6.2% x $60,000=$3,720). Under this proposal the rich would pay a larger share than everyone else, but still less than the rate they currently pay. Everyone wins, but the poor come out much better than they currently do. To go along with this federal spending should be drastically cut and people should accept some personal responsibility for providing the basics for themselves. By cutting spending we could avoid increasing the national debt, which would help keep interest rates and inflation down, since the government wouldn't be devaluing the dollar to pay for unsustainable spending. Any liberals want to disagree with this idea?

There are limited facilities in the U.S. to handle the final processing (smelting, electro-refining) - only three smelters now from the former couple dozen that once existed. The three smelters we have are pretty much at full capacity handling their own material (concentrates produced by ASARCO, Freeport, and Kennecott). The U.S. smelters that were closed were older and were gradually shut down as it was not cost-effective to retrofit them with costly air emissions equipment. Newer smelters were built in other countries (S. America, China, etc.) with state-of-the art designs including air quality controls and at a larger scale. Smelters cost billions to build and run so the world sends its concentrates to a few massive, new smelters that can handle the capacity.

abuse of society creates poverty, unemployment is a symptom, working in a robbing mine is not a cure.