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ful conversations about how complicated the work is, how difficult it is and
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come out to, you know, people have to have a resolution at the end of the day, and
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so anyway, which is all a very long winded way of saying what i really like about the case studies that we're working with you on is that we're able to
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show to a broader audience, how decisions get made and the sort of questions that trust and safety professionals ask themselves every time there's
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a trust and safety foundation website is hosted
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do recommend, again, i'm sort of recommending all these other podcasts on this podcast, but
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about facebook's content policy
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team, and decision-making process that i thought was really, really good. and they just re-released it with a slight update at the end
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relevant to more recent happenings and things like the trump executive order and
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tax on section 230. but i actually, one of the things i really liked about that episode is that it walks you through that thought process,
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in a very clever way. radiolab is very good at that, where they sort of walk you down this road of saying like, here's the decision that was made and showing how it makes sense,
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you know, wait, that's not going to work in this case,
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but we have to change our policy and make a different decision.
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and then they walk you down this path and then they throw you another curve ball. and you suddenly realize like that's kind of what trust and safety professionals have to do all the ti
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which is why the case studies project that we're working on together with you is so important, right. in order to kind of show people, they're all these really
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complicated questions that trust and safety professionals are juggling every time they have to make a decision and there's sort of
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no right answer and answers change over time as we gather more
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information, but it was a really hard job. and i'm just like thinking back to some experiences that i've
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had where even people internally at some of the companies that i've worked at.
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have pinged me in and asked like, well, did you consider x, y, and z? and the answer is yes. and i can tell you made that consideration and
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challenging. so we don't do enough with that transparency as a field
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to show how complicated the trade-offs can be. and i'm just also giggling
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kind of to myself, because i remember working on a policy
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previously and i was called out in the press for being a parole clutcher for coming
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out on a certain decision that i had. and it was just very amusing to me. but,
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sometimes it's easy to become defensive. and so one of the things that the trust and safety professional association and the trust and safety foundation project can do
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is kind of demonstrate how complicated these decisions are without
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necessarily having to, you know,
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so, over time, the sort of structured contin-
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you know, because of the reporting and like the scrutiny.
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that that's coming into play right now. and i think at the last five years or so, there are a lot more folks who are building products who are asking themselves right at.
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the outset, what can i do to make sure that i'm.
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making, you know, just like how people shifted from making priv-
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yeah, i think that's a really great point and a really good way of framing it and thinking about it,
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the other things that i think it would be nice for more people to understand and to learn about, and that hopefully with
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in these roles and are taking on these positions and responsibilities,
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plea about these issues. it's another one of these things where a lot of people who don't have the experience jump in and assume that these are
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very easy decisions. and when they see a decision that they dislike, then they assume nefarious
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motives and other sorts of malfeasance and
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yes, every one of them has
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trade-offs and you can disagree with how people come out on the trade-offs, but to assume
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that it was done for nefarious or bias-
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if you walk through it, you can disagree with how they came out on it,
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but it wasn't like people didn't think through these decisions.
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you know, more universal knowledge rather than just the knowledge that's baked into each company and how they've developed their own trust and safety practices as they've grown is.
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will still view trust and safety teams as a cost center to most companies when they're looking at their budget lines, not necessarily as a value center and,
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you know, like adeline mentioned earlier, trust and safety employees bring so much back to companies and in value of their experience on any platform.
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so we're really hoping that at some point in time, this professional field of professionals can really be
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seen as value centers to companies the same way today people don't blink at lincoln
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restructure. they understand how much that it
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is important to invest in, but for most people trust in p c
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b teams have been bandaid solutions to things that go bad, very wrong, and they haven't necessarily had that investment and respect and so
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we really hope that over time, we can really also uplift that perception for executives at companies.
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i think it used to be back in the early days, sort of you would,
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you would create this great product and you wouldn't think about all the awful things that could happen on your product because you're so focused on we're going to change the world. you know,
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now it's very idealistic sort of approach. and then the first moment you get a bad thing happening you say,
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oh, we got to put someone on this. and that's how i think a lot of these departments organically came up as a separate function
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i think that's another key important part of...
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of content moderation and the day to day rules of a lot of these professionals being really black and white and simple.
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yeah. i think that's important to sort of the cybersecurity side of it. and then also, as we've seen more and...
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more where there's nation state level...
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tax and trolling, and all of these other things all come into the trust and safety process and need to be thought about...
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the idea that it's not an important and sort of central role...
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i think more and more of them are recognizing that it is. i think that's part of the...
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reason why i think it's great. what you guys are putting together with these organizations is it's part of the recognition of this role and how important...
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it is and how central it is to many companies and making sure that their operations...
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work well.
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you mentioned earlier that there's some relationship...
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and i think of it in a similar way, in that a lot of companies historically...
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this part of the organization that didn't want to deal with this much. and more and more companies have recognized how central it is, that is the touch point...
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i think that we're going to see more and more of that in the trust and safety space too, that designing...
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viewpoint and making sure that it is central to how these...
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and so having an organization like this that can help with that process...
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but it is this weird thing where until people are sort of forced to confront the ideas themselves and think through...
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a lot of people, maybe it's just the people that i talk to...
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nothing in the way of me being able to say, what i want must be bad, but they do...
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this really important role of making these platforms usable...
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i think that's really important for people to understand.
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whatever you want, and that's not...
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the case in other countries. and we're seeing that through regulation and how that impacts...
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how the platforms need to perform in or...
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how they need to exist in those countries.
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say whatever i want with no consequences. so that's just an interesting kind...
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i think it's also, that hasn't been mentioned as much is...
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and moderation. there's obviously a lot of regulation around...
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privacy today, but the more privacy...
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most companies have, sometimes it makes it so much harder to properly moderate...
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content and around maybe moderating threat intelligence and foreign influence...
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operations. the one key thing that a lot of companies have to determine is if information is coming from certain countries.
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that i hear all the time and that there's no need for them. and that all they're doing is just sitting there being sort of awful...
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prude, whatever...
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it takes a lot to get people to understand...
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don't necessarily realize it. i've told this...
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story a few times, but not in a while. where it's, i run a...
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a relatively small site in tech dirt that has user comments and our original position...
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we're not there to review any of the comments or do any moderation...
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and the first time, i suddenly had to start to think through these issues was when someone came on the comments and was literally threatening to kill someone and...
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about this and what do i do? then...
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you have no rules at all, right? you have to have some sort of functional set up of rules...
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