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Robert Boyd | Moderator | Congresswoman Ferraro, you have had little or no experience with military matters and yet you might someday find yourself commander- in- chief of the armed forces. How can you convince the American people and the potential enemy that you would know what to do to protect this nations security, and do you think in any way that the Soviets might be tempted to try to take advantage of you simply because you are a woman? | Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | Are you saying that I would have to have fought in the war in order to love peace? |
Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | Are you saying that I would have to have fought in the war in order to love peace? | Robert Boyd | Moderator | Im not saying that, Im asking you – you know what I asked. |
Robert Boyd | Moderator | Im not saying that, Im asking you – you know what I asked. | Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | All right. I think what happens is when you try to equate whether or not I have had military experience, thats the natural conclusion. Its about as valid as saying that you would have to be black in order to despise racism, that youd have to be female in order to be terribly offended by sexism. And thats just not so. I think if you take a look at where Ive been, both in the Congress and where I intend to go, the type of person I am – I think that the people of this country can rely upon the fact that I will be a lender. I dont think the Soviet Union for one minute can sit down and make determination on what I will do if Im ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the Soviet Union. Quite frankly Im prepared to do whatever is necessary in order to secure this country and make sure that security is maintained. Secondly, if the Soviet Union were to ever believe that they could challenge the United States with any sort of nuclear forces or otherwise, if I were in a position of leadership in this country, they would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise and certain retaliation. Let me just say one other thing now. The most important thing, though I think as a leader that what one has to do is get to the point where youre not put into that position. And the way you to that position of rnoving away from having to make a decision – armed force or anything else – is by moving toward arms control. And thats not whats been done over the past four years. I think that if you were to take a look at the failures of this administration that would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as a leader in this country. I will move immediately toward arms control negotiations. |
Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | All right. I think what happens is when you try to equate whether or not I have had military experience, thats the natural conclusion. Its about as valid as saying that you would have to be black in order to despise racism, that youd have to be female in order to be terribly offended by sexism. And thats just not so. I think if you take a look at where Ive been, both in the Congress and where I intend to go, the type of person I am – I think that the people of this country can rely upon the fact that I will be a lender. I dont think the Soviet Union for one minute can sit down and make determination on what I will do if Im ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the Soviet Union. Quite frankly Im prepared to do whatever is necessary in order to secure this country and make sure that security is maintained. Secondly, if the Soviet Union were to ever believe that they could challenge the United States with any sort of nuclear forces or otherwise, if I were in a position of leadership in this country, they would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise and certain retaliation. Let me just say one other thing now. The most important thing, though I think as a leader that what one has to do is get to the point where youre not put into that position. And the way you to that position of rnoving away from having to make a decision – armed force or anything else – is by moving toward arms control. And thats not whats been done over the past four years. I think that if you were to take a look at the failures of this administration that would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as a leader in this country. I will move immediately toward arms control negotiations. | Robert Boyd | Moderator | For my follow, Im going to borrow a leaf from the Sunday night debate between your principals and ask you what is the single question you would most like to ask your opponent here on foreign policy? |
Robert Boyd | Moderator | For my follow, Im going to borrow a leaf from the Sunday night debate between your principals and ask you what is the single question you would most like to ask your opponent here on foreign policy? | Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | Oh, I dont have a single- most question. I guess the concern that I have is a concern not only as a vice- presidential candidate but as a citizen in this country. My concern is that we are not doing anything to stop the arms race, and if seems to me that if we keep talking about military inferiority – which we do not have, we are at a comparable level with the Soviet Union; our Joint Chiefs of Staff have said theyd never exchange our military power for theirs. I guess the thing that Id want is a commitment that pretty soon theyre going to do something about making this a safer world for all of us. |
Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | Oh, I dont have a single- most question. I guess the concern that I have is a concern not only as a vice- presidential candidate but as a citizen in this country. My concern is that we are not doing anything to stop the arms race, and if seems to me that if we keep talking about military inferiority – which we do not have, we are at a comparable level with the Soviet Union; our Joint Chiefs of Staff have said theyd never exchange our military power for theirs. I guess the thing that Id want is a commitment that pretty soon theyre going to do something about making this a safer world for all of us. | Robert Boyd | Moderator | Vice- President Bush, four years ago President Reagan insisted that a military buildup would bring the Soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then, we have spent almost a trillion dollars on defense but the Soviets are still building their military forces as rapidly as we are, and there are no negotiations. Was the presidents original premise, his whole strategy, wrong? |
Robert Boyd | Moderator | Vice- President Bush, four years ago President Reagan insisted that a military buildup would bring the Soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then, we have spent almost a trillion dollars on defense but the Soviets are still building their military forces as rapidly as we are, and there are no negotiations. Was the presidents original premise, his whole strategy, wrong? | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | No, I think his strategy not only was correct but is correct. Youve got to go back where we were. Clearly, when we came into office, the American people recognized that we had slipped into positions of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes, as the president points out, were older than the pilots; ships that couldnt go out to sea. And you had a major problem with the military. Actually, the morale wasnt very good either. So we have had to strengthen the military and were well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength, in terms of our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. At the same time, however, we have made proposals and proposals and proposals – sound proposals – on reducing nuclear weapons. The Strategic Arms Reduction Talks were good proposals, and its the Soviets who left the table. The Intermediate Nuclear Force Talks were sound talks, and I wish the Soviet Union had continued them. The chemical weapon treaty to ban all chemical weapons, it was our initiative, not the Soviets. And we wish they would think anew and move forward to verification so everybody would know whether the other side was keeping its word. But, much more important, youd reduce the level of terror. Similarly, were reducing – trying to talk to them, and are talking to them, in Vienna, about conventional force reduction. Weve talked to them about human rights. Ive met with Mr. Andropov and Mr. Chernenko, and we mention and we try to do something about the human rights question. The suppression of Soviet Jews is absolutely intolerable and so we have to keep pushing forward on the moral grounds as well as on the arms reduction ground. But it is my view that because this president has been strong, and because weve addressed the imbalances – and I think were very close to getting that job done – the Soviets are more likely to make a deal. The Soviets made an ABM treaty when they felt we were going to deploy an ABM system. So I am optimistic for the future, once they realize that they will have this strong, principled president to negotiate with, strong leadership, and yet with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | No, I think his strategy not only was correct but is correct. Youve got to go back where we were. Clearly, when we came into office, the American people recognized that we had slipped into positions of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes, as the president points out, were older than the pilots; ships that couldnt go out to sea. And you had a major problem with the military. Actually, the morale wasnt very good either. So we have had to strengthen the military and were well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength, in terms of our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. At the same time, however, we have made proposals and proposals and proposals – sound proposals – on reducing nuclear weapons. The Strategic Arms Reduction Talks were good proposals, and its the Soviets who left the table. The Intermediate Nuclear Force Talks were sound talks, and I wish the Soviet Union had continued them. The chemical weapon treaty to ban all chemical weapons, it was our initiative, not the Soviets. And we wish they would think anew and move forward to verification so everybody would know whether the other side was keeping its word. But, much more important, youd reduce the level of terror. Similarly, were reducing – trying to talk to them, and are talking to them, in Vienna, about conventional force reduction. Weve talked to them about human rights. Ive met with Mr. Andropov and Mr. Chernenko, and we mention and we try to do something about the human rights question. The suppression of Soviet Jews is absolutely intolerable and so we have to keep pushing forward on the moral grounds as well as on the arms reduction ground. But it is my view that because this president has been strong, and because weve addressed the imbalances – and I think were very close to getting that job done – the Soviets are more likely to make a deal. The Soviets made an ABM treaty when they felt we were going to deploy an ABM system. So I am optimistic for the future, once they realize that they will have this strong, principled president to negotiate with, strong leadership, and yet with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. | Robert Boyd | Moderator | And now, Ill give you a chance, Mr. Vice- President, to ask the question youd most like to ask your opponent. |
Robert Boyd | Moderator | And now, Ill give you a chance, Mr. Vice- President, to ask the question youd most like to ask your opponent. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I have none Id like to ask of her, but Id sure like to use the time to talk about the World Series or something of that nature. Let me put it this way – I dont have any questions, but we are so different from – the Reagan- Bush administration is so different from the Carter- Mondale [sic] administration that the American people are going to have the clearest choice. Its a question of going back to the failed ideas of the past, where we came in – 21% percent on those interest rates, inflation, despair, malaise, no leadership, blaming the American people for failed leadership. Or another option – keep this recovery going until it benefits absolutely everybody. Peace at home – peace abroad – prosperity – opportunity. Id like to hear her talk on those things, but I think the yellow light is flashing and so well leave it there. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I have none Id like to ask of her, but Id sure like to use the time to talk about the World Series or something of that nature. Let me put it this way – I dont have any questions, but we are so different from – the Reagan- Bush administration is so different from the Carter- Mondale [sic] administration that the American people are going to have the clearest choice. Its a question of going back to the failed ideas of the past, where we came in – 21% percent on those interest rates, inflation, despair, malaise, no leadership, blaming the American people for failed leadership. Or another option – keep this recovery going until it benefits absolutely everybody. Peace at home – peace abroad – prosperity – opportunity. Id like to hear her talk on those things, but I think the yellow light is flashing and so well leave it there. | Robert Boyd | Moderator | Nothing on the World Series? Congresswoman Ferraro? |
Robert Boyd | Moderator | Nothing on the World Series? Congresswoman Ferraro? | Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | I think the vice- presidents comment about the Carter- Mondale administration really typifies this administration. Its an administration that looks backwards, not forwards and into the future. I must say that Im also tickled by their comments on human rights. The Soviet Union in 1979 allowed 51, 000 people to emigrate, because, in large measure, this administrations policies over the past four years, 1, 313 people got out of the Soviet Union in 1983 and 1984. Thats not a great record on human rights and certainly not a record on human rights achievements. This administration spent a trillion dollars on defense, but it hasnt gotten a trillion dollars on national security. |
Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | I think the vice- presidents comment about the Carter- Mondale administration really typifies this administration. Its an administration that looks backwards, not forwards and into the future. I must say that Im also tickled by their comments on human rights. The Soviet Union in 1979 allowed 51, 000 people to emigrate, because, in large measure, this administrations policies over the past four years, 1, 313 people got out of the Soviet Union in 1983 and 1984. Thats not a great record on human rights and certainly not a record on human rights achievements. This administration spent a trillion dollars on defense, but it hasnt gotten a trillion dollars on national security. | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Vice- President Bush, your rebuttal? |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Vice- President Bush, your rebuttal? | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | No rebuttal. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | No rebuttal. | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Well, we then can go to the closing statements. Each statement will be four minutes in length and well begin with the vice- president. |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Well, we then can go to the closing statements. Each statement will be four minutes in length and well begin with the vice- president. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, in a couple of weeks, you, the American people, will be faced, three weeks, with a choice. Its the clearest choice in some fifty years. And the choice is, do we move forward with strength and with prosperity or do we go back to weakness, despair, disrespect. Ronald Reagan and I have put our trust in the American people. Weve moved some of the power away from Washington, D. C. , and put it back with the people. Were pulling together. The neighborhoods are safer cause crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. Test scores are going up. Theres a new opportunity lying out there in the future. Science, technology and space offering opportunity that, to everybody, all the young ones coming up. And abroad theres new leadership and respect. And Ronald Reagan is clearly the strong leader of the free world. And Ill be honest with you. Its a joy to serve with a president who does not apologize for the United States of America. Mr. Mondale, on the other hand, has one idea. Go out and tax the American people. And then he wants to repeal indexing, to wipe out the one protection that those at the lowest end of the economic scale have protecting them against being rammed into higher and higher tax brackets. We just owe our country too much to go back to that kind of an approach. Id like to say something to the young people. I started a business. I know what it is to have a dream and have a job and work hard to employ others and really to participate in the American dream. Some of you out there are finishing high school or college and some of you are starting out in the working place. And we want for you Americas greatest gift. And that is opportunity. And then, peace. Yes, I did serve in combat. I was shot down when I was a young kid, scared to death. And all that did, saw friends die, but that heightened my convictions about peace. It is absolutely essential that we guarantee the young people that they will not know the agony of war. Americas gift, opportunity and peace. Now we do have some unfinished business. We must continue to go ahead. The world is too complex to go back to vacillation and weakness. Weve too much going on to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot. Together we can go forward and lift America up to meet her greatest dreams. Thank you very much. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, in a couple of weeks, you, the American people, will be faced, three weeks, with a choice. Its the clearest choice in some fifty years. And the choice is, do we move forward with strength and with prosperity or do we go back to weakness, despair, disrespect. Ronald Reagan and I have put our trust in the American people. Weve moved some of the power away from Washington, D. C. , and put it back with the people. Were pulling together. The neighborhoods are safer cause crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. Test scores are going up. Theres a new opportunity lying out there in the future. Science, technology and space offering opportunity that, to everybody, all the young ones coming up. And abroad theres new leadership and respect. And Ronald Reagan is clearly the strong leader of the free world. And Ill be honest with you. Its a joy to serve with a president who does not apologize for the United States of America. Mr. Mondale, on the other hand, has one idea. Go out and tax the American people. And then he wants to repeal indexing, to wipe out the one protection that those at the lowest end of the economic scale have protecting them against being rammed into higher and higher tax brackets. We just owe our country too much to go back to that kind of an approach. Id like to say something to the young people. I started a business. I know what it is to have a dream and have a job and work hard to employ others and really to participate in the American dream. Some of you out there are finishing high school or college and some of you are starting out in the working place. And we want for you Americas greatest gift. And that is opportunity. And then, peace. Yes, I did serve in combat. I was shot down when I was a young kid, scared to death. And all that did, saw friends die, but that heightened my convictions about peace. It is absolutely essential that we guarantee the young people that they will not know the agony of war. Americas gift, opportunity and peace. Now we do have some unfinished business. We must continue to go ahead. The world is too complex to go back to vacillation and weakness. Weve too much going on to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot. Together we can go forward and lift America up to meet her greatest dreams. Thank you very much. | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Thank you very much. I must say now in matters of equity you will be allowed applause at the end of your closing statement, so if you begin now, please. |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Thank you very much. I must say now in matters of equity you will be allowed applause at the end of your closing statement, so if you begin now, please. | Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | I hope somebody wants to applaud. Being the candidate for vice- president of my party is the greatest honor I have ever had. But its not only a personal achievement for Geraldine Ferraro – and certainly not only the bond that I feel as I go across this country with women throughout the country. I wouldnt be standing here if Fritz Mondale didnt have the courage and my party didnt stand for the values that it does – the values of fairness and equal opportunity. Those values make our country strong and the future of this country and how strong it will be is what this election is all about. Over the last two months Ive been traveling all over the country talking to the people about the future. I was in Kentucky and I spoke to the Dyhouse family. He works for a car dealer and hes worried about the deficits and how high interest rates are going to affect his job. Every place I go I see young parents with their children and they say to me what are we going to do to stop this nuclear arms race. I was in Dayton, Ohio, a week and a half ago and I sat with the Allen family who live next door to a toxic dump and theyre very, very concerned about the fact that those toxics are seeping into the water that they and their neighbors drink. Now those people love this country and theyre patriotic. But its not the patriotism that youre seeing in the commercials as you watch television these days. Their patriotism is not only a pride in the country as it is, but a pride in this country that is strong enough to meet the challenges of the future. Do you know when we find jobs for the eight and a half million people who are unemployed in this country, you know well make our economy stronger and that will be a patriotic act. When we reduce the deficits and we cut interest rates, and I know the president doesnt believe that, but its so – we cut those interest rates young people can buy houses, thats pro- family and that will be a patriotic act. When we educate our children – good Lord, theyre going to be able to compete in a world economy and that makes us stronger and thats a patriotic act. When we stop the arms race, we make this a safer, saner world, and thats a patriotic act, and when we keep the peace young men dont die, and thats a patriotic act. Those are the keys to the future and who can be the leader for the future? When Walter Mondale was attorney general of Minnesota, he led the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he couldnt afford a lawyer; when he was in the Senate he fought for child nutrition programs, he wrote the Fair Housing Act, he even investigated the concerns and the abuses of migrant workers. And why did he do that? Those werent popular causes. You know, no one had ever heard of Clarence Gideon, the man without a lawyer. Children dont vote and migrant workers exactly a powerful lobby in this country, but he did it because it was right. Fritz Mondale has said that he would rather lose a battle for decency than win one over self- interest. Now I agree with him. This campaign is not over. For our country, for our future, for the principles we believe in Walter Mondale and I have just begun to fight. |
Geraldine Ferraro | Candidate | I hope somebody wants to applaud. Being the candidate for vice- president of my party is the greatest honor I have ever had. But its not only a personal achievement for Geraldine Ferraro – and certainly not only the bond that I feel as I go across this country with women throughout the country. I wouldnt be standing here if Fritz Mondale didnt have the courage and my party didnt stand for the values that it does – the values of fairness and equal opportunity. Those values make our country strong and the future of this country and how strong it will be is what this election is all about. Over the last two months Ive been traveling all over the country talking to the people about the future. I was in Kentucky and I spoke to the Dyhouse family. He works for a car dealer and hes worried about the deficits and how high interest rates are going to affect his job. Every place I go I see young parents with their children and they say to me what are we going to do to stop this nuclear arms race. I was in Dayton, Ohio, a week and a half ago and I sat with the Allen family who live next door to a toxic dump and theyre very, very concerned about the fact that those toxics are seeping into the water that they and their neighbors drink. Now those people love this country and theyre patriotic. But its not the patriotism that youre seeing in the commercials as you watch television these days. Their patriotism is not only a pride in the country as it is, but a pride in this country that is strong enough to meet the challenges of the future. Do you know when we find jobs for the eight and a half million people who are unemployed in this country, you know well make our economy stronger and that will be a patriotic act. When we reduce the deficits and we cut interest rates, and I know the president doesnt believe that, but its so – we cut those interest rates young people can buy houses, thats pro- family and that will be a patriotic act. When we educate our children – good Lord, theyre going to be able to compete in a world economy and that makes us stronger and thats a patriotic act. When we stop the arms race, we make this a safer, saner world, and thats a patriotic act, and when we keep the peace young men dont die, and thats a patriotic act. Those are the keys to the future and who can be the leader for the future? When Walter Mondale was attorney general of Minnesota, he led the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he couldnt afford a lawyer; when he was in the Senate he fought for child nutrition programs, he wrote the Fair Housing Act, he even investigated the concerns and the abuses of migrant workers. And why did he do that? Those werent popular causes. You know, no one had ever heard of Clarence Gideon, the man without a lawyer. Children dont vote and migrant workers exactly a powerful lobby in this country, but he did it because it was right. Fritz Mondale has said that he would rather lose a battle for decency than win one over self- interest. Now I agree with him. This campaign is not over. For our country, for our future, for the principles we believe in Walter Mondale and I have just begun to fight. | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Thank you very much. Id like to thank Vice- President Bush, Congresswoman Ferraro, the members of our panel for joining us in this League of Women Voters debate. Id like to join you in thanking them, the city of Philadelphia and the League of Women Voters. The League of Women Voters next debate, the presidential debate, will take place in Kansas City on October 21. The subject will be foreign affairs award it will begin at 8 P. M. , Eastern time. Again our thanks. We hope youll join us on the twenty- first. |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Thank you very much. Id like to thank Vice- President Bush, Congresswoman Ferraro, the members of our panel for joining us in this League of Women Voters debate. Id like to join you in thanking them, the city of Philadelphia and the League of Women Voters. The League of Women Voters next debate, the presidential debate, will take place in Kansas City on October 21. The subject will be foreign affairs award it will begin at 8 P. M. , Eastern time. Again our thanks. We hope youll join us on the twenty- first. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Good evening, and welcome to the first of 3 debates among the major candidates for president of the United States, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The candidates are; independent candidate Ross Perot, Governor Bill Clinton, the Democratic nominee, and President George Bush, the Republican nominee. I am Jim Lehrer of the MacNeil- Lehrer News Hour on PBS, and I will be the moderator for this 90- minute event, which is taking place before an audience in the athletic complex on the campus of Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. Three journalists will be asking questions tonight. They are John Mashek of The Boston Globe, Ann Compton of ABC News, and Sander Vanocur, a freelance journalist. We will follow a format agreed to by representatives of the Clinton and Bush campaigns. That agreement contains no restrictions on the content or subject matter of the questions. Each candidate will have up to 2 minutes for a closing statement. The order of those, as well as the questioning, was determined by a drawing. The first question goes to Mr. Perot. He will have 2 minutes to answer, to be followed by rebuttals of one minute each from Governor Clinton and then President Bush. Gentlemen, good evening. The first topic tonight is what separates each of you from the other. Mr. Perot, what do you believe tonight is the single most important separating issue of this campaign? |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Good evening, and welcome to the first of 3 debates among the major candidates for president of the United States, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The candidates are; independent candidate Ross Perot, Governor Bill Clinton, the Democratic nominee, and President George Bush, the Republican nominee. I am Jim Lehrer of the MacNeil- Lehrer News Hour on PBS, and I will be the moderator for this 90- minute event, which is taking place before an audience in the athletic complex on the campus of Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. Three journalists will be asking questions tonight. They are John Mashek of The Boston Globe, Ann Compton of ABC News, and Sander Vanocur, a freelance journalist. We will follow a format agreed to by representatives of the Clinton and Bush campaigns. That agreement contains no restrictions on the content or subject matter of the questions. Each candidate will have up to 2 minutes for a closing statement. The order of those, as well as the questioning, was determined by a drawing. The first question goes to Mr. Perot. He will have 2 minutes to answer, to be followed by rebuttals of one minute each from Governor Clinton and then President Bush. Gentlemen, good evening. The first topic tonight is what separates each of you from the other. Mr. Perot, what do you believe tonight is the single most important separating issue of this campaign? | Ross Perot | Candidate | I think the principal that separates me is that 5 and a half million people came together on their own and put me on the ballot. I was not put on the ballot by either of the 2 parties; I was not put on the ballot by any PAC money, by any foreign lobbyist money, by any special interest money. This is a movement that came from the people. This is the way the framers of the Constitution intended our government to be, a government that comes from the people. Over time we have developed a government that comes at the people, that comes from the top down, where the people are more or less treated as objects to be programmed during the campaign with commercials and media events and fear messages and personal attacks and things of that nature. The thing that separates my candidacy and makes it unique is that this came from millions of people in 50 states all over this country who wanted a candidate that worked and belonged to nobody but them. I go into this race as their servant, and I belong to them. So this comes from the people. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | I think the principal that separates me is that 5 and a half million people came together on their own and put me on the ballot. I was not put on the ballot by either of the 2 parties; I was not put on the ballot by any PAC money, by any foreign lobbyist money, by any special interest money. This is a movement that came from the people. This is the way the framers of the Constitution intended our government to be, a government that comes from the people. Over time we have developed a government that comes at the people, that comes from the top down, where the people are more or less treated as objects to be programmed during the campaign with commercials and media events and fear messages and personal attacks and things of that nature. The thing that separates my candidacy and makes it unique is that this came from millions of people in 50 states all over this country who wanted a candidate that worked and belonged to nobody but them. I go into this race as their servant, and I belong to them. So this comes from the people. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, a one minute response. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, a one minute response. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | The most important distinction in this campaign is that I represent real hope for change, a departure from trickle- down economics, a departure from tax and spend economics, to invest in growth. But before I can do that, I must challenge the American people to change, and they must decide. Tonight I say to the President; Mr. Bush, for 12 years youve had it your way. Youve had your chance and it didnt work. Its time to change. I want to bring that change to the American people. But we must all decide first we have the courage to change for hope and a better tomorrow. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | The most important distinction in this campaign is that I represent real hope for change, a departure from trickle- down economics, a departure from tax and spend economics, to invest in growth. But before I can do that, I must challenge the American people to change, and they must decide. Tonight I say to the President; Mr. Bush, for 12 years youve had it your way. Youve had your chance and it didnt work. Its time to change. I want to bring that change to the American people. But we must all decide first we have the courage to change for hope and a better tomorrow. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute response, sir. PRESIDENT |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute response, sir. PRESIDENT | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I think one thing that distinguishes is experience. I think weve dramatically changed the world. Ill talk about that a little bit later, but the changes are mind- boggling for world peace. Kids go to bed at night without the same fear of nuclear war. And change for change sake isnt enough. We saw that message in the late 70s when heard a lot about change, and what happened, that misery index went right through the roof. But my economic program is the kind of change we want. And the way were going to get it done is were going to have a brand new Congress. A lot of them are thrown out because of all the scandals. Ill sit down with them, Democrats and Republicans alike, and work for my agenda for American renewal, which represents real change. But Id say, if you had to separate out, I think its experience at this level. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, I think one thing that distinguishes is experience. I think weve dramatically changed the world. Ill talk about that a little bit later, but the changes are mind- boggling for world peace. Kids go to bed at night without the same fear of nuclear war. And change for change sake isnt enough. We saw that message in the late 70s when heard a lot about change, and what happened, that misery index went right through the roof. But my economic program is the kind of change we want. And the way were going to get it done is were going to have a brand new Congress. A lot of them are thrown out because of all the scandals. Ill sit down with them, Democrats and Republicans alike, and work for my agenda for American renewal, which represents real change. But Id say, if you had to separate out, I think its experience at this level. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, how do you respond to the President on the — you have two minutes — on the question of experience? He says that is what distinguishes him from the other two of you. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, how do you respond to the President on the — you have two minutes — on the question of experience? He says that is what distinguishes him from the other two of you. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | I believe experience counts, but its not everything. Values, judgment, and the record that I have amassed in my state also should count for something. Ive worked hard to create good jobs and to educate people. My state now ranks first in the country in job growth this year, fourth in income growth, fourth in reduction of poverty, third in overall economic performance, according to a major news magazine. Thats because we believe in investing in education and in jobs. And we have to change in this country. You know, my wife, Hillary, gave me a book about a year ago in which the author defined insanity as just doing the same old thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We have got to have the courage to change. Experience is important, yes. Ive gotten a lot of good experience in dealing with ordinary people over the last year and month. Ive touched more peoples lives and seen more heartbreak and hope, more pain and more promise, than anybody else whos run for president this year. I think the American people deserve better than theyre getting. We have gone from first to thirteenth in wages in the world in the last twelve years, since Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan have been in. Personal income has dropped while people have worked harder. In the last four years, there have been twice as many bankruptcies as new jobs created. We need a new approach. The same old experience is not relevant. Were living in a new world after the Cold War, and what works in this new world is not trickle down, not government for the benefit of the privileged few, not tax and spend, but a commitment to invest in American jobs and American education, controlling American health care costs, and bringing the American people together. That is what works. And you can have the right kind of experience and the wrong kind of experience. Mine is rooted in the real lives of real people, and it will bring real results if we have the courage to change. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | I believe experience counts, but its not everything. Values, judgment, and the record that I have amassed in my state also should count for something. Ive worked hard to create good jobs and to educate people. My state now ranks first in the country in job growth this year, fourth in income growth, fourth in reduction of poverty, third in overall economic performance, according to a major news magazine. Thats because we believe in investing in education and in jobs. And we have to change in this country. You know, my wife, Hillary, gave me a book about a year ago in which the author defined insanity as just doing the same old thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We have got to have the courage to change. Experience is important, yes. Ive gotten a lot of good experience in dealing with ordinary people over the last year and month. Ive touched more peoples lives and seen more heartbreak and hope, more pain and more promise, than anybody else whos run for president this year. I think the American people deserve better than theyre getting. We have gone from first to thirteenth in wages in the world in the last twelve years, since Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan have been in. Personal income has dropped while people have worked harder. In the last four years, there have been twice as many bankruptcies as new jobs created. We need a new approach. The same old experience is not relevant. Were living in a new world after the Cold War, and what works in this new world is not trickle down, not government for the benefit of the privileged few, not tax and spend, but a commitment to invest in American jobs and American education, controlling American health care costs, and bringing the American people together. That is what works. And you can have the right kind of experience and the wrong kind of experience. Mine is rooted in the real lives of real people, and it will bring real results if we have the courage to change. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute to respond. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute to respond. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I just thought of another — another big difference here between me. I dont believe Mr. Perot feels this way, but I know Governor Clinton did because I want to accurately quote him. He thinks, I think he said, that the country is coming apart at the seams. Now, I know that the only way he can win is to make everybody believe the economys worse than it is. But this country is not coming apart at the seams, for heavens sakes. Were the United States of America. In spite of the economic problems, were the most respected economy around the world. Many would trade for it. Weve been caught up in a global slowdown. We can do much, much better, but we ought not try to convince the American people that America is a country thats coming apart at the seams. I would hate to be running for president and think that the only way I could win would be to convince everybody how horrible things are. Yes, there are big problems, and yes, people are hurting. But I believe that this Agenda for American renewal I have is the answer to do it, and I believe we can get it done now, whereas we didnt in the past, because youre going to have a whole brand new bunch of people in the Congress that are going to have to listen to the same American people Im listening to. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I just thought of another — another big difference here between me. I dont believe Mr. Perot feels this way, but I know Governor Clinton did because I want to accurately quote him. He thinks, I think he said, that the country is coming apart at the seams. Now, I know that the only way he can win is to make everybody believe the economys worse than it is. But this country is not coming apart at the seams, for heavens sakes. Were the United States of America. In spite of the economic problems, were the most respected economy around the world. Many would trade for it. Weve been caught up in a global slowdown. We can do much, much better, but we ought not try to convince the American people that America is a country thats coming apart at the seams. I would hate to be running for president and think that the only way I could win would be to convince everybody how horrible things are. Yes, there are big problems, and yes, people are hurting. But I believe that this Agenda for American renewal I have is the answer to do it, and I believe we can get it done now, whereas we didnt in the past, because youre going to have a whole brand new bunch of people in the Congress that are going to have to listen to the same American people Im listening to. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, a minute response, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, a minute response, sir. | Ross Perot | Candidate | Well, theyve got a point. I dont have any experience in running up a $4 trillion debt. (Laughter. ) I dont have any experience in gridlock government where nobody takes responsibility for anything and everybody blames everybody else. I dont have any experience in creating the worst public school system in the industrialized world, the most violent crime- ridden society in the industrialized world. Â But I do have a lot of experience in getting things done. So, if were at a point in history where we want to stop talking about it and do it, Ive got a lot of experience in figuring out how to solve problems, making the solutions work, and then moving on to the next one. Ive got a lot of experience in not taking 10 years to solve a 10- minute problem. So, if its time for action, I think I have experience that counts. If theres more time for gridlock and talk and finger pointing, Im the wrong man. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Well, theyve got a point. I dont have any experience in running up a $4 trillion debt. (Laughter. ) I dont have any experience in gridlock government where nobody takes responsibility for anything and everybody blames everybody else. I dont have any experience in creating the worst public school system in the industrialized world, the most violent crime- ridden society in the industrialized world. Â But I do have a lot of experience in getting things done. So, if were at a point in history where we want to stop talking about it and do it, Ive got a lot of experience in figuring out how to solve problems, making the solutions work, and then moving on to the next one. Ive got a lot of experience in not taking 10 years to solve a 10- minute problem. So, if its time for action, I think I have experience that counts. If theres more time for gridlock and talk and finger pointing, Im the wrong man. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, the question goes to you. you have two minutes. And the question is this; Are there important issues of character separating you from these other two men? |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, the question goes to you. you have two minutes. And the question is this; Are there important issues of character separating you from these other two men? | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I think the American people should be the judge of that. I think character is a very important question. I said something the other day where I was accused of being like Joe McCarthy because I questioned — I put it this way; I think its wrong to demonstrate against your own country or organize demonstrations against your own country in foreign soil. I just think its wrong. I — well, maybe they say, “Well, it was a youthful indiscretion. ” I was 19 or 20 flying off an aircraft carrier and that shaped me to be Commander- in- Chief of the armed forces. And Im sorry, but demonstrating — its not a question of patriotism. Its a question of character and judgment. They get on me — Bills gotten on me about, “read my lips. ” When I make a mistake Ill admit it. But he has made — not admitted a mistake and I just find it impossible to understand how an American can demonstrate against his own country in a foreign land — organizing demonstrations against it when young men are held prisoner in Hanoi or kids out of the ghetto were drafted. Some say, “well, youre a little old fashioned. ” Maybe I am, but I just dont think thats right. Now, whether its character or judgment — whatever it is — I have a big difference here on this issue and so well just have to see how it plays out. But I — I couldnt do that. And I dont think most Americans could do that. And they all say, “Well, it was a long time ago. ” Well, lets admit it then. Say, “I made a terrible mistake. ” How could you be Commander- in- Chief of the armed forces and have some kid say — when you have to make a tough decision, as I did in Panama or Kuwait and then have some kid jump up and say, “Well, Im not going to go. The Commander- in- Chief was organizing demonstrations halfway around the world during another era. So there are differences but thats about the main area where I think we have a difference. I dont know about — well talk about that a little with Ross here in a bit. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I think the American people should be the judge of that. I think character is a very important question. I said something the other day where I was accused of being like Joe McCarthy because I questioned — I put it this way; I think its wrong to demonstrate against your own country or organize demonstrations against your own country in foreign soil. I just think its wrong. I — well, maybe they say, “Well, it was a youthful indiscretion. ” I was 19 or 20 flying off an aircraft carrier and that shaped me to be Commander- in- Chief of the armed forces. And Im sorry, but demonstrating — its not a question of patriotism. Its a question of character and judgment. They get on me — Bills gotten on me about, “read my lips. ” When I make a mistake Ill admit it. But he has made — not admitted a mistake and I just find it impossible to understand how an American can demonstrate against his own country in a foreign land — organizing demonstrations against it when young men are held prisoner in Hanoi or kids out of the ghetto were drafted. Some say, “well, youre a little old fashioned. ” Maybe I am, but I just dont think thats right. Now, whether its character or judgment — whatever it is — I have a big difference here on this issue and so well just have to see how it plays out. But I — I couldnt do that. And I dont think most Americans could do that. And they all say, “Well, it was a long time ago. ” Well, lets admit it then. Say, “I made a terrible mistake. ” How could you be Commander- in- Chief of the armed forces and have some kid say — when you have to make a tough decision, as I did in Panama or Kuwait and then have some kid jump up and say, “Well, Im not going to go. The Commander- in- Chief was organizing demonstrations halfway around the world during another era. So there are differences but thats about the main area where I think we have a difference. I dont know about — well talk about that a little with Ross here in a bit. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, you have one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, you have one minute. | Ross Perot | Candidate | I think the American people will make their own decisions on character and at a time when we have work to do and we need action I think they need to clearly understand the backgrounds of each person. I think the press can play a huge roll in making sure that the backgrounds are clearly presented in an objective way. Then, make a decision. Certainly anyone in the White House should have the character to be there. But, I think its very important to measure when and where things occurred. Did they occur when you were a young person, in your formative years? Or did they occur while you were a senior official in the federal government? When you’re a senior official in the federal government spending billions of dollars in taxpayer’s money and you’re a mature individual and you make a mistake, then that was on our ticket. If you make it as a young man, time passes. So I would say just, you know, look at all three of us. Decide who you think will do the job. Pick that person in November because believe me, as Ive said before, “The partys over and its time for the clean- up crew. ” And we do have to have change and people who never take responsibility for anything when it happens on their watch and people who are in charge — |
Ross Perot | Candidate | I think the American people will make their own decisions on character and at a time when we have work to do and we need action I think they need to clearly understand the backgrounds of each person. I think the press can play a huge roll in making sure that the backgrounds are clearly presented in an objective way. Then, make a decision. Certainly anyone in the White House should have the character to be there. But, I think its very important to measure when and where things occurred. Did they occur when you were a young person, in your formative years? Or did they occur while you were a senior official in the federal government? When you’re a senior official in the federal government spending billions of dollars in taxpayer’s money and you’re a mature individual and you make a mistake, then that was on our ticket. If you make it as a young man, time passes. So I would say just, you know, look at all three of us. Decide who you think will do the job. Pick that person in November because believe me, as Ive said before, “The partys over and its time for the clean- up crew. ” And we do have to have change and people who never take responsibility for anything when it happens on their watch and people who are in charge — | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Your time is up. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Your time is up. | Ross Perot | Candidate | The time is up. (Laughter) . |
Ross Perot | Candidate | The time is up. (Laughter) . | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | The time is up. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | The time is up. | Ross Perot | Candidate | More later. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | More later. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, you have one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, you have one minute. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | Ross gave a good answer but Ive got to respond directly to Mr. Bush. You have questioned my patriotism. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | Ross gave a good answer but Ive got to respond directly to Mr. Bush. You have questioned my patriotism. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | (Inaudible) . |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | (Inaudible) . | Bill Clinton | Candidate | You even brought some right- wing congressman into the White House to plot how to attack me for going to Russia in 1969- 70, when over 50, 000 other Americans did. Now, I honor your service in World War II, I honor Mr. Perots service in uniform and the service of every man and woman who ever served, including Admiral Crowe, who was your Chairman of the joint Chiefs and whos supporting me. But when Joe McCarthy went around this country attacking peoples patriotism he was wrong. He was wrong. And a senator from Connecticut stood up to him named Prescott Bush. Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy, you were wrong to attack my patriotism. I was opposed to the war but I loved my country and we need a president who will bring this country together, not divide it. Weve had enough division. I want to lead a unified country. (APPLAUSE) |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | You even brought some right- wing congressman into the White House to plot how to attack me for going to Russia in 1969- 70, when over 50, 000 other Americans did. Now, I honor your service in World War II, I honor Mr. Perots service in uniform and the service of every man and woman who ever served, including Admiral Crowe, who was your Chairman of the joint Chiefs and whos supporting me. But when Joe McCarthy went around this country attacking peoples patriotism he was wrong. He was wrong. And a senator from Connecticut stood up to him named Prescott Bush. Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy, you were wrong to attack my patriotism. I was opposed to the war but I loved my country and we need a president who will bring this country together, not divide it. Weve had enough division. I want to lead a unified country. (APPLAUSE) | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | We move now to the subject of taxes and spending. The question goes to Governor Clinton for a two minutes answer. It will be asked by Ann Compton. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | We move now to the subject of taxes and spending. The question goes to Governor Clinton for a two minutes answer. It will be asked by Ann Compton. | Ann Compton | Moderator | Governor Clinton, can you lock in a level here tonight on where middle- income families can be guaranteed a tax cut or, at the very least, at what income level they can be guaranteed no tax increase? |
Ann Compton | Moderator | Governor Clinton, can you lock in a level here tonight on where middle- income families can be guaranteed a tax cut or, at the very least, at what income level they can be guaranteed no tax increase? | Bill Clinton | Candidate | The tax increase I have proposed triggers in at family incomes of $200, 000 and above. Those are the people who in the 1980s had their incomes go up while their taxes went down. Middle- class people, defined as people with incomes of $52, 000 and down, had their incomes go down while their taxes went up in the Reagan- Bush years because of 6 increases in the payroll taxes. So that is where my income limit would trigger. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | The tax increase I have proposed triggers in at family incomes of $200, 000 and above. Those are the people who in the 1980s had their incomes go up while their taxes went down. Middle- class people, defined as people with incomes of $52, 000 and down, had their incomes go down while their taxes went up in the Reagan- Bush years because of 6 increases in the payroll taxes. So that is where my income limit would trigger. | Ann Compton | Moderator | There will be no tax increases– |
Ann Compton | Moderator | There will be no tax increases– | Bill Clinton | Candidate | Right. My plan – |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | Right. My plan – | Ann Compton | Moderator | – below 200, 000– |
Ann Compton | Moderator | – below 200, 000– | Bill Clinton | Candidate | – notwithstanding my opponents ad, my plan triggers in at gross incomes, family incomes of $200, 000 and above. Then we want to give modest middle- class tax relief to restore some fairness, especially to middle- class people with families with incomes of under $60, 000. In addition to that, the money that I raise from upper- income people and from asking foreign corporations just to pay the same income on their income earned in America that American corporations do will be used to give incentives back to upper- income people. I want to give people permanent incentives on investment tax credit, like President Kennedy and the Congress inaugurated in the early 60s to get industry moving again; a research and development tax credit; a low- income housing tax credit; a long- term capital gains proposal for new business and business expansions. Weve got to have no more trickle down. We dont need across- the- board tax cuts for the wealthy for nothing. We need to say heres your tax incentive; if you create American jobs, the old- fashioned way. Id like to create more millionaires than were created under Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan, but I dont want to have 4 years where we have no growth in the private sector, and thats whats happened in the last 4 years. Were down 35, 000 jobs in the private sector. We need to invest and grow, and thats what I want to do. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | – notwithstanding my opponents ad, my plan triggers in at gross incomes, family incomes of $200, 000 and above. Then we want to give modest middle- class tax relief to restore some fairness, especially to middle- class people with families with incomes of under $60, 000. In addition to that, the money that I raise from upper- income people and from asking foreign corporations just to pay the same income on their income earned in America that American corporations do will be used to give incentives back to upper- income people. I want to give people permanent incentives on investment tax credit, like President Kennedy and the Congress inaugurated in the early 60s to get industry moving again; a research and development tax credit; a low- income housing tax credit; a long- term capital gains proposal for new business and business expansions. Weve got to have no more trickle down. We dont need across- the- board tax cuts for the wealthy for nothing. We need to say heres your tax incentive; if you create American jobs, the old- fashioned way. Id like to create more millionaires than were created under Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan, but I dont want to have 4 years where we have no growth in the private sector, and thats whats happened in the last 4 years. Were down 35, 000 jobs in the private sector. We need to invest and grow, and thats what I want to do. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute, sir. PRESIDENT |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute, sir. PRESIDENT | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, let me– I have to correct one thing. I didnt question the mans patriotism. I questioned his judgment and his character. What he did in Moscow, thats fine. Let him explain it. He did. I accept that. What I dont accept is demonstrating and organizing demonstrations in a foreign country when your countrys at war. Im sorry. I cannot accept that. In terms of this one on taxes spells out the biggest difference between us. I do not believe we need to go back to the Mondale proposals or the Dukakis proposals of tax and spend. Governor Clinton says $200, 000 but he also says he wants to raise $150 billion. Taxing people over $200, 000 will not get you $150 billion. And then when you add in his other spending proposals, regrettably you end up socking it to the working man. That old adage they use– were going to soak the rich- - were going to soak the rich– it always ends up being the poor cab driver or the working man that ends up paying the bill. And so I just have a different approach. I believe the way to get the deficit down is to control the growth of mandatory spending programs, and not raise taxes on the American people. Weve got a big difference there. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, let me– I have to correct one thing. I didnt question the mans patriotism. I questioned his judgment and his character. What he did in Moscow, thats fine. Let him explain it. He did. I accept that. What I dont accept is demonstrating and organizing demonstrations in a foreign country when your countrys at war. Im sorry. I cannot accept that. In terms of this one on taxes spells out the biggest difference between us. I do not believe we need to go back to the Mondale proposals or the Dukakis proposals of tax and spend. Governor Clinton says $200, 000 but he also says he wants to raise $150 billion. Taxing people over $200, 000 will not get you $150 billion. And then when you add in his other spending proposals, regrettably you end up socking it to the working man. That old adage they use– were going to soak the rich- - were going to soak the rich– it always ends up being the poor cab driver or the working man that ends up paying the bill. And so I just have a different approach. I believe the way to get the deficit down is to control the growth of mandatory spending programs, and not raise taxes on the American people. Weve got a big difference there. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, one minute. (APPLAUSE) |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, one minute. (APPLAUSE) | Ross Perot | Candidate | Weve got to have a growing, expanding job base to give us a growing, expanding tax base. Right now we have a flat to deteriorating job base and where it appears to be growing, its minimum- wage jobs. So weve got to really rebuild our job base. Thats going to take money for infrastructure and investment to do that. Our foreign competitors are doing it; were not. We cannot pay off the $4 trillion debt, balance the budget and have the industries of the future and the high- paying jobs in this country without having the revenue. Were going to go through a period of shared sacrifice. Theres one challenge. Its got to be fair. Weve created a mess, dont have much to show for it and we have got to fix it. And thats about all I can say in a minute. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Weve got to have a growing, expanding job base to give us a growing, expanding tax base. Right now we have a flat to deteriorating job base and where it appears to be growing, its minimum- wage jobs. So weve got to really rebuild our job base. Thats going to take money for infrastructure and investment to do that. Our foreign competitors are doing it; were not. We cannot pay off the $4 trillion debt, balance the budget and have the industries of the future and the high- paying jobs in this country without having the revenue. Were going to go through a period of shared sacrifice. Theres one challenge. Its got to be fair. Weve created a mess, dont have much to show for it and we have got to fix it. And thats about all I can say in a minute. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Okay. (APPLAUSE) Next question goes to President Bush for a 2- minute answer, and it will be asked by Sandy Vanocur. SANDER |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Okay. (APPLAUSE) Next question goes to President Bush for a 2- minute answer, and it will be asked by Sandy Vanocur. SANDER | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Mr. President, this past week your secretary of the Army, Michael Stone, said he had no plans to abide by a congressional mandate to cut US forces in Europe from 150 to 100 thousand by the end of September 1996. Now, why, almost 50 years after the end of World War II, and with the total collapse of the Soviet Union, should American taxpayers be taxed to support armies in Europe when the Europeans have plenty of money to do it for themselves? |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Mr. President, this past week your secretary of the Army, Michael Stone, said he had no plans to abide by a congressional mandate to cut US forces in Europe from 150 to 100 thousand by the end of September 1996. Now, why, almost 50 years after the end of World War II, and with the total collapse of the Soviet Union, should American taxpayers be taxed to support armies in Europe when the Europeans have plenty of money to do it for themselves? | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, Sander, thats a good question, and the answer is; for 40- some years we kept the peace. If you look at the cost of not keeping the peace in Europe, it would be exorbitant. We have reduced the number of troops that are deployed and going to be deployed. I have cut defense spending. And the reason we could do that is because of our fantastic success in winning the Cold War. We never would have got there if we had gone for the nuclear freeze crowd; we never would have got there if we had listened to those that wanted to cut defense spending. I think it is important that the US stay in Europe and continue to guarantee the peace. We simply cannot pull back. Now, when anybody has a spending program they want to spend money on at home, they say, well, lets cut money out of the Defense Dept. I will accept and have accepted the recommendations of 2 proven leaders, General Colin Powell and Secretary Dick Cheney. They feel that the levels were operating at and the reductions that I have proposed are proper. And so I simply do not think we should go back to the isolation days and starting blaming foreigners. We are the sole remaining superpower, and we should be that. And we have a certain disproportionate responsibility. But I would ask the American people to understand that if we make imprudent cuts, if we go too far, we risk the peace. And I dont want to do that. Ive seen what it is like to see a war, to see the burdens of a war, and I dont want to see us make reckless cuts. Because of our programs we have been able to significantly cut defense spending. But lets not cut into the muscle, and lets not cut down our insurance policy, which is participation of American forces in NATO, the greatest peace- keeping organization ever made. Today youve got problems in Europe, still bubbling along even though Europes gone democracys route. But we are there, and I think this insurance policy is necessary. I think it goes with world leadership, and I think the levels weve come up with are just about right. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, Sander, thats a good question, and the answer is; for 40- some years we kept the peace. If you look at the cost of not keeping the peace in Europe, it would be exorbitant. We have reduced the number of troops that are deployed and going to be deployed. I have cut defense spending. And the reason we could do that is because of our fantastic success in winning the Cold War. We never would have got there if we had gone for the nuclear freeze crowd; we never would have got there if we had listened to those that wanted to cut defense spending. I think it is important that the US stay in Europe and continue to guarantee the peace. We simply cannot pull back. Now, when anybody has a spending program they want to spend money on at home, they say, well, lets cut money out of the Defense Dept. I will accept and have accepted the recommendations of 2 proven leaders, General Colin Powell and Secretary Dick Cheney. They feel that the levels were operating at and the reductions that I have proposed are proper. And so I simply do not think we should go back to the isolation days and starting blaming foreigners. We are the sole remaining superpower, and we should be that. And we have a certain disproportionate responsibility. But I would ask the American people to understand that if we make imprudent cuts, if we go too far, we risk the peace. And I dont want to do that. Ive seen what it is like to see a war, to see the burdens of a war, and I dont want to see us make reckless cuts. Because of our programs we have been able to significantly cut defense spending. But lets not cut into the muscle, and lets not cut down our insurance policy, which is participation of American forces in NATO, the greatest peace- keeping organization ever made. Today youve got problems in Europe, still bubbling along even though Europes gone democracys route. But we are there, and I think this insurance policy is necessary. I think it goes with world leadership, and I think the levels weve come up with are just about right. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, one minute, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, one minute, sir. | Ross Perot | Candidate | If Im poor and youre rich, and I can get you to defend me, thats good. But when the tables get turned, I ought to do my share. Right now we spend about $300 billion a year on defense, the Japanese spend around 30 billion in Asia, the Germans spend around 30 billion in Europe. For example, Germany will spend a trillion dollars building infrastructure over the next 10 years. Its kind of easy to do if you only have to pick up a $30- billion tab to defend your country. The European Community is in a position to pay a lot more than they have in the past. I agree with the president; when they couldnt, we should have; now that they can, they should. We sort of seem to have a desire to try to stay over there and control it. They dont want us to control it, very candidly. So it I think is very important for us to let them assume more and more of the burden and for us to bring that money back here and rebuild our infrastructure, because we can only be a superpower if we are an economic superpower; and we can only be an economic superpower if we have a growing, expanding job base. (APPLAUSE) |
Ross Perot | Candidate | If Im poor and youre rich, and I can get you to defend me, thats good. But when the tables get turned, I ought to do my share. Right now we spend about $300 billion a year on defense, the Japanese spend around 30 billion in Asia, the Germans spend around 30 billion in Europe. For example, Germany will spend a trillion dollars building infrastructure over the next 10 years. Its kind of easy to do if you only have to pick up a $30- billion tab to defend your country. The European Community is in a position to pay a lot more than they have in the past. I agree with the president; when they couldnt, we should have; now that they can, they should. We sort of seem to have a desire to try to stay over there and control it. They dont want us to control it, very candidly. So it I think is very important for us to let them assume more and more of the burden and for us to bring that money back here and rebuild our infrastructure, because we can only be a superpower if we are an economic superpower; and we can only be an economic superpower if we have a growing, expanding job base. (APPLAUSE) | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute, sir. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | I agree with the general statement Mr. Bush made. I disagree that we need 150, 000 troops to fulfill our role in Europe. We certainly must maintain an engagement there. There are certainly dangers there, there are certainly other trouble spots in the world which are closer to Europe than to the US. But 2 former defense secretaries recently issued a report saying that 100, 000 or slightly fewer troops would be enough, including President Reagans former defense secretary, Mr. Carlucci. Many of the military experts whom I consulted on this agreed. Were going to have to spend more money in the future on military technology and on greater mobility, greater airlift, greater sealift, the B- 22 airplane. Were going to have to do some things that are quite costly. And I simply dont believe we can afford nor do we need to keep 150, 000 troops in Europe given how much the Red Army, now under the control of Russia, has been cut, the arms control agreement concluded between Mr. Bush and Mr. Yeltsin, something I have applauded. I dont think we need 150, 000 troops. Let me make one other point. Mr. Bush talked about taxes. He didnt tell you that he vetoed a middle class tax cut because it would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy and vetoed an investment tax credit paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | I agree with the general statement Mr. Bush made. I disagree that we need 150, 000 troops to fulfill our role in Europe. We certainly must maintain an engagement there. There are certainly dangers there, there are certainly other trouble spots in the world which are closer to Europe than to the US. But 2 former defense secretaries recently issued a report saying that 100, 000 or slightly fewer troops would be enough, including President Reagans former defense secretary, Mr. Carlucci. Many of the military experts whom I consulted on this agreed. Were going to have to spend more money in the future on military technology and on greater mobility, greater airlift, greater sealift, the B- 22 airplane. Were going to have to do some things that are quite costly. And I simply dont believe we can afford nor do we need to keep 150, 000 troops in Europe given how much the Red Army, now under the control of Russia, has been cut, the arms control agreement concluded between Mr. Bush and Mr. Yeltsin, something I have applauded. I dont think we need 150, 000 troops. Let me make one other point. Mr. Bush talked about taxes. He didnt tell you that he vetoed a middle class tax cut because it would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy and vetoed an investment tax credit paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. We go now to Mr. Perot for a 2- minute question, and it will be asked by John Mashek. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. We go now to Mr. Perot for a 2- minute question, and it will be asked by John Mashek. | John Mashek | Moderator | Mr Perot, you talked about fairness just a minute ago and sharing the pain. As part of your plan to reduce the ballooning federal deficit, youve suggested that we raise gasoline taxes 50 cents a gallon over 5 years. Why punish the middle class consumer to such a degree? |
John Mashek | Moderator | Mr Perot, you talked about fairness just a minute ago and sharing the pain. As part of your plan to reduce the ballooning federal deficit, youve suggested that we raise gasoline taxes 50 cents a gallon over 5 years. Why punish the middle class consumer to such a degree? | Ross Perot | Candidate | Its 10 cents a year cumulative. It finally gets to 50 cents at the end of the 5th year. I think “punish” is the wrong word. Again, see, I didnt create this problem. Were trying to solve it. Now, if you study our international competitors, some of our international competitors collect up to $3. 50 a gallon in taxes, and they use that money to build infrastructure and to create jobs. We collect 35 cents, and we dont have it to spend. I know its not popular, and I understand the nature of your question. But the people who will be helped the most by it are the working people who will get the jobs created because of this tax. Why do we have to do it? Because we have so mismanaged our country over the years, and it is now time to pay the fiddler. And if we dont, we will be spending our childrens money. We have spent $4 trillion worth. An incredible number of young people are active in supporting my effort because they are deeply concerned that we have taken the American dream from them. I think its fitting that were on the campus of a university tonight. These young people, when they get out of this wonderful university, will have difficulty finding a job. Weve got to clean this mess up, leave this country in good shape, and pass on the American dream to them. Weve got to collect the taxes to do it. If theres a fairer way, Im all ears (laughter) – aah. (Laughter and applause) But– but– see, let me make it very clear. If people dont have the stomach to fix these problems, I think its a good time to face it, November. If they do, then they will have heard the harsh reality of what we have to do. Im not playing Lawrence Welk music tonight. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Its 10 cents a year cumulative. It finally gets to 50 cents at the end of the 5th year. I think “punish” is the wrong word. Again, see, I didnt create this problem. Were trying to solve it. Now, if you study our international competitors, some of our international competitors collect up to $3. 50 a gallon in taxes, and they use that money to build infrastructure and to create jobs. We collect 35 cents, and we dont have it to spend. I know its not popular, and I understand the nature of your question. But the people who will be helped the most by it are the working people who will get the jobs created because of this tax. Why do we have to do it? Because we have so mismanaged our country over the years, and it is now time to pay the fiddler. And if we dont, we will be spending our childrens money. We have spent $4 trillion worth. An incredible number of young people are active in supporting my effort because they are deeply concerned that we have taken the American dream from them. I think its fitting that were on the campus of a university tonight. These young people, when they get out of this wonderful university, will have difficulty finding a job. Weve got to clean this mess up, leave this country in good shape, and pass on the American dream to them. Weve got to collect the taxes to do it. If theres a fairer way, Im all ears (laughter) – aah. (Laughter and applause) But– but– see, let me make it very clear. If people dont have the stomach to fix these problems, I think its a good time to face it, November. If they do, then they will have heard the harsh reality of what we have to do. Im not playing Lawrence Welk music tonight. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right, Governor Clinton, you have a minute, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right, Governor Clinton, you have a minute, sir. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | I think Mr. Perot has confronted this deficit issue, but I think its important to point out that we really have 2 deficits in America, not one. We have a budget deficit in the federal government, but we also have an investment, a jobs, an income deficit. People are working harder for less money than they were making 10 years ago, 2- 3rds of our people– a $1600 drop in average income in just the last 2 years. The problem I have with the Perot prescription is that almost all economists whove looked at it say that if you cut the deficit this much this quick it will increase unemployment, it will slow down the economy. Thats why I think we shouldnt do it that quickly. We have a disciplined reduction in the deficit of 50 % over the next 4 years, but first get incentives to invest in this economy, put the American people back to work. Weve got to invest and grow. 9 Nobel Prize- winning economists and 500 others, including numerous Republican and Democratic business executives, have endorsed this approach because it offers the best hope to put America back to work and get our incomes rising instead of falling. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | I think Mr. Perot has confronted this deficit issue, but I think its important to point out that we really have 2 deficits in America, not one. We have a budget deficit in the federal government, but we also have an investment, a jobs, an income deficit. People are working harder for less money than they were making 10 years ago, 2- 3rds of our people– a $1600 drop in average income in just the last 2 years. The problem I have with the Perot prescription is that almost all economists whove looked at it say that if you cut the deficit this much this quick it will increase unemployment, it will slow down the economy. Thats why I think we shouldnt do it that quickly. We have a disciplined reduction in the deficit of 50 % over the next 4 years, but first get incentives to invest in this economy, put the American people back to work. Weve got to invest and grow. 9 Nobel Prize- winning economists and 500 others, including numerous Republican and Democratic business executives, have endorsed this approach because it offers the best hope to put America back to work and get our incomes rising instead of falling. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute, sir. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Your question was on fairness. I just disagree with Mr. Perot. I dont believe it is fair to slap a 50- cent- a- gallon tax over whatever many years on the people that have to drive for a living, people that go long distances. I dont think we need to do it. You see, I have a fundamental difference. I agree with what hes talking about in trying to get this spending down and the discipline, although I think we ought to totally exempt Social Security. But hes talking tough medicine, and I think thats good. I disagree with the tax- and- spend philosophy. You see, I dont think we need to tax more and spend more, and then say thats going to make the problem better. And Im afraid thats what I think Im hearing from Governor Clinton. I believe what you need to do is some of what Ross is talking about; control the growth of mandatory spending and get taxes down. Hes mentioned some ways to do it– and I agree with those. Ive been talking about getting a capital gains cut forever, and his friends in Congress have been telling me thats a tax break for the rich. It would stimulate investment. Im for an investment tax allowance; Im for a tax break for first- time homebuyers. And with this new Congress coming in, gridlock will be gone, and Ill sit down with them and say lets get this done. But I do not want to go the tax- and- spend route. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Your question was on fairness. I just disagree with Mr. Perot. I dont believe it is fair to slap a 50- cent- a- gallon tax over whatever many years on the people that have to drive for a living, people that go long distances. I dont think we need to do it. You see, I have a fundamental difference. I agree with what hes talking about in trying to get this spending down and the discipline, although I think we ought to totally exempt Social Security. But hes talking tough medicine, and I think thats good. I disagree with the tax- and- spend philosophy. You see, I dont think we need to tax more and spend more, and then say thats going to make the problem better. And Im afraid thats what I think Im hearing from Governor Clinton. I believe what you need to do is some of what Ross is talking about; control the growth of mandatory spending and get taxes down. Hes mentioned some ways to do it– and I agree with those. Ive been talking about getting a capital gains cut forever, and his friends in Congress have been telling me thats a tax break for the rich. It would stimulate investment. Im for an investment tax allowance; Im for a tax break for first- time homebuyers. And with this new Congress coming in, gridlock will be gone, and Ill sit down with them and say lets get this done. But I do not want to go the tax- and- spend route. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right, lets move on now to the subject of jobs. The first question goes to President Bush for 2 minutes, and John will ask that question. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right, lets move on now to the subject of jobs. The first question goes to President Bush for 2 minutes, and John will ask that question. | John Mashek | Moderator | Mr. President, last month you came to St. Louis to announce a very lucrative contract for McDonnell Douglas to build F- 15s for Saudi Arabia. In todays Post- Dispatch, a retired saleswoman, a 75- year- old woman named Marjorie Roberts, asked if she could ask a question of the candidates. She said she wanted to register her concern about the lack of a plan to convert our defense- oriented industries into other purposes. How would you answer her. |
John Mashek | Moderator | Mr. President, last month you came to St. Louis to announce a very lucrative contract for McDonnell Douglas to build F- 15s for Saudi Arabia. In todays Post- Dispatch, a retired saleswoman, a 75- year- old woman named Marjorie Roberts, asked if she could ask a question of the candidates. She said she wanted to register her concern about the lack of a plan to convert our defense- oriented industries into other purposes. How would you answer her. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I assume she was supportive of the decision on McDonnell Douglas, I assume she was supporting me on the decision to sell those airplanes. I think its a good decision– took a little heat for it, but I think it was the correct decision to do. And we worked it out, and indeed were moving forward all around the world in a much more peaceful way. So that one we came away with in creating jobs for the American people. I would simply say to her, look, take a look at what the president has proposed on job retraining. When you cut back on defense spending, some people are going to be thrown out of work. If you throw another 50, 000 kids on the street because of cutting recklessly in troop levels, youre going to put a lot more out of work. I would say to them, look at the job retraining programs that were proposing. Therein is the best answer to her. And another one is; stimulate investment and savings. I mean, weve got big economic problems, but we are not coming apart at the seams; were ready for a recovery. With interest rates down and inflation down, the cruelest tax of all, caught up in a global slowdown right now, that that will change if you go with the programs Ive talked about and if you help with job retraining and education. I am a firm believer that our America 2000 education problem is the answer– a little longer run; its going to take awhile to educate. But it is a good program. So her best help for short term is job retraining, if she was thrown out of work at a defense plant. But tell her its not all that gloomy; were the US, we faced tough problems before. Look at the misery index when the Democrats had both the White House and the Congress. It was just right through the roof. Now, we can do better. And the way to do better is not to tax and spend but to retrain, get that control of the mandatory spending programs. Im much more optimistic about this country than some. (APPLAUSE) |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I assume she was supportive of the decision on McDonnell Douglas, I assume she was supporting me on the decision to sell those airplanes. I think its a good decision– took a little heat for it, but I think it was the correct decision to do. And we worked it out, and indeed were moving forward all around the world in a much more peaceful way. So that one we came away with in creating jobs for the American people. I would simply say to her, look, take a look at what the president has proposed on job retraining. When you cut back on defense spending, some people are going to be thrown out of work. If you throw another 50, 000 kids on the street because of cutting recklessly in troop levels, youre going to put a lot more out of work. I would say to them, look at the job retraining programs that were proposing. Therein is the best answer to her. And another one is; stimulate investment and savings. I mean, weve got big economic problems, but we are not coming apart at the seams; were ready for a recovery. With interest rates down and inflation down, the cruelest tax of all, caught up in a global slowdown right now, that that will change if you go with the programs Ive talked about and if you help with job retraining and education. I am a firm believer that our America 2000 education problem is the answer– a little longer run; its going to take awhile to educate. But it is a good program. So her best help for short term is job retraining, if she was thrown out of work at a defense plant. But tell her its not all that gloomy; were the US, we faced tough problems before. Look at the misery index when the Democrats had both the White House and the Congress. It was just right through the roof. Now, we can do better. And the way to do better is not to tax and spend but to retrain, get that control of the mandatory spending programs. Im much more optimistic about this country than some. (APPLAUSE) | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot? Mr. Perot, you have one minute, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot? Mr. Perot, you have one minute, sir. | Ross Perot | Candidate | Defense industries are going to have to convert to civilian industries. Many of them are. And the sooner they start, the sooner theyll finish. And there will be a significant transition. And its very important that we not continue to let our industrial base deteriorate. We had someone who Im sure regrets said it in the presidents staff said he didnt care whether we made potato chips or computer chips. Well, anybody that thinks about it cares a great deal. Number one, you make more making computer chips than potato chips; and, number 2, 19 out of 20 computer chips that we have in this country now come from Japan. Weve given away whole industries. So as we phase these industries over, theres a whole of intellectual talent in these industries. A lot of these people in industries can be converted to the industries of tomorrow, and thats where the high- paying jobs are. We need to have a very carefully thought through phase- over. Now, see, we practice 19th century capitalism. The rest of the world practices 21st century capitalism. I cant handle that in a minute, but I hope we can get back into it later. In the rest of the world, the countries and the businesses would be working together to make this transition in an intelligent way. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Defense industries are going to have to convert to civilian industries. Many of them are. And the sooner they start, the sooner theyll finish. And there will be a significant transition. And its very important that we not continue to let our industrial base deteriorate. We had someone who Im sure regrets said it in the presidents staff said he didnt care whether we made potato chips or computer chips. Well, anybody that thinks about it cares a great deal. Number one, you make more making computer chips than potato chips; and, number 2, 19 out of 20 computer chips that we have in this country now come from Japan. Weve given away whole industries. So as we phase these industries over, theres a whole of intellectual talent in these industries. A lot of these people in industries can be converted to the industries of tomorrow, and thats where the high- paying jobs are. We need to have a very carefully thought through phase- over. Now, see, we practice 19th century capitalism. The rest of the world practices 21st century capitalism. I cant handle that in a minute, but I hope we can get back into it later. In the rest of the world, the countries and the businesses would be working together to make this transition in an intelligent way. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, you have one minute, sir. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, you have one minute, sir. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | We must have a transition plan to plan to convert from a defense to a domestic economy. No other nation would have cut defense as much as we already have without that. There are 200, 000 people unemployed in California alone because we have cut defense without planning to retrain them and to reinvest in the technologies of the future here at home. That is what I want to do. This administration may say they have a plan, but the truth is they have not even released all the money, the paltry sum of money, that Congress appropriated. I want to take very dollar by which we reduce defense and reinvest it in technologies for the 21st century– in new transportation, in communication, in environmental clean- up technologies. Lets put the American people to work, and lets build the kind of high- tech, high- wage, high- growth economy that the American people deserve. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | We must have a transition plan to plan to convert from a defense to a domestic economy. No other nation would have cut defense as much as we already have without that. There are 200, 000 people unemployed in California alone because we have cut defense without planning to retrain them and to reinvest in the technologies of the future here at home. That is what I want to do. This administration may say they have a plan, but the truth is they have not even released all the money, the paltry sum of money, that Congress appropriated. I want to take very dollar by which we reduce defense and reinvest it in technologies for the 21st century– in new transportation, in communication, in environmental clean- up technologies. Lets put the American people to work, and lets build the kind of high- tech, high- wage, high- growth economy that the American people deserve. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. The next question goes to Mr. Perot for a 2- minute answer. It will be asked by Ann. Ann? |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. The next question goes to Mr. Perot for a 2- minute answer. It will be asked by Ann. Ann? | Ann Compton | Moderator | Mr. Perot, you talked a minute ago about rebuilding the job base. But is it true what Governor Clinton just said, that that means that unemployment will increase, that it will slow the economy? And how would you specifically use the powers of the presidency to get more people back into good jobs immediately? |
Ann Compton | Moderator | Mr. Perot, you talked a minute ago about rebuilding the job base. But is it true what Governor Clinton just said, that that means that unemployment will increase, that it will slow the economy? And how would you specifically use the powers of the presidency to get more people back into good jobs immediately? | Ross Perot | Candidate | Step one, the American people send me up there, the day after election, Ill get with congressional– we wont even wait till inauguration, and Ill ask the president to help me and Ill ask his staff to help me. And we will start putting together teams to put together– to take all the plans that exist and do something with them. Please understand. There are great plans lying all over Washington nobody ever executes. Its like having a blueprint for a house you never built. You dont have anywhere to sleep. Now our challenge is to take these things, do something with them. Step one, we want to put America back to work, clean up the small business problem, have one task force at work on that. The second, youve got your big companies that are in trouble, including the defense industries– have another one on that. Have a 3rd task force on new industries of the future to make sure we nail those for our country and they dont wind up in Europe and Asia. Convert from 19th to 21st century capitalism. See, we have an adversarial relationship between government and business. Our international competitors that are cleaning our plate have an intelligent relationship between government and business, and a supportive relationship. Then have another task force on crime because, next to jobs, our people are concerned about their safety. Health care, schools– one on the debt and deficit. And finally in that 90- day period before the inauguration, put together the framework for the town hall and give the American people a Christmas present. Show them by Christmas the first cut at these plans. By the time Congress comes into session to go to work, have those plans ready to go in front of Congress. Then get off to a flying start in 93 to execute these plans. Now, there are people in this room and people on this stage whove been in meetings when I would sit there and say, “Is this the one were going to talk about or do something about? ” Well, obviously, my orientation is lets go do it. Now, put together your plans by Christmas, be ready to go when Congress goes, nail these things. Small business– youve got to have capital, youve got to credit, and many of them need mentors or coaches. And we can create more jobs there in a hurry than any other place. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Step one, the American people send me up there, the day after election, Ill get with congressional– we wont even wait till inauguration, and Ill ask the president to help me and Ill ask his staff to help me. And we will start putting together teams to put together– to take all the plans that exist and do something with them. Please understand. There are great plans lying all over Washington nobody ever executes. Its like having a blueprint for a house you never built. You dont have anywhere to sleep. Now our challenge is to take these things, do something with them. Step one, we want to put America back to work, clean up the small business problem, have one task force at work on that. The second, youve got your big companies that are in trouble, including the defense industries– have another one on that. Have a 3rd task force on new industries of the future to make sure we nail those for our country and they dont wind up in Europe and Asia. Convert from 19th to 21st century capitalism. See, we have an adversarial relationship between government and business. Our international competitors that are cleaning our plate have an intelligent relationship between government and business, and a supportive relationship. Then have another task force on crime because, next to jobs, our people are concerned about their safety. Health care, schools– one on the debt and deficit. And finally in that 90- day period before the inauguration, put together the framework for the town hall and give the American people a Christmas present. Show them by Christmas the first cut at these plans. By the time Congress comes into session to go to work, have those plans ready to go in front of Congress. Then get off to a flying start in 93 to execute these plans. Now, there are people in this room and people on this stage whove been in meetings when I would sit there and say, “Is this the one were going to talk about or do something about? ” Well, obviously, my orientation is lets go do it. Now, put together your plans by Christmas, be ready to go when Congress goes, nail these things. Small business– youve got to have capital, youve got to credit, and many of them need mentors or coaches. And we can create more jobs there in a hurry than any other place. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | This country desperately needs a jobs program, and my first priority would be to pass a jobs program, to introduce it on the first day I was inaugurated. I would meet with the leaders of the Congress, with all the newly elected members of the Congress and as many others with whom I could meet between the time of the election and the inauguration, and we would present a jobs program. Then we would present a plan to control health care costs and phase in health care coverage for all Americans. Until we control health care costs, were not going to control the deficit. It is the number one culprit. But first we must have an aggressive jobs program. I live in a state where manufacturing job growth has far outpaced the nation in the last few years, where we have created more private sector jobs since Mr. Bush has been president than have been created in the entire rest of the country, where Mr. Bushs labor secretary said job growth has been enormous. Weve done it in Arkansas. Give me a chance to create these kind of jobs in America. We can do it. I know we can. (APPLAUSE) |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | This country desperately needs a jobs program, and my first priority would be to pass a jobs program, to introduce it on the first day I was inaugurated. I would meet with the leaders of the Congress, with all the newly elected members of the Congress and as many others with whom I could meet between the time of the election and the inauguration, and we would present a jobs program. Then we would present a plan to control health care costs and phase in health care coverage for all Americans. Until we control health care costs, were not going to control the deficit. It is the number one culprit. But first we must have an aggressive jobs program. I live in a state where manufacturing job growth has far outpaced the nation in the last few years, where we have created more private sector jobs since Mr. Bush has been president than have been created in the entire rest of the country, where Mr. Bushs labor secretary said job growth has been enormous. Weve done it in Arkansas. Give me a chance to create these kind of jobs in America. We can do it. I know we can. (APPLAUSE) | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Weve got the plan announced for what we can do for small business. Ive already put forward things thatll get this country working fast, some of which have been echoed here tonight– investment tax allowance, capital gains reduction, more on research and development, tax credit for first- time home buyers. What Im going to do is say to Jim Baker when this campaign is over, all right, lets sit down now, you do in domestic affairs what youve done in foreign affairs, be kind of the economic coordinator of all the domestic side of the House, and that includes all the economic side, all the training side, and bring this program together. Were going to have a new Congress, and were going to say to them, youve listened to the voters the way we have. Nobody wants gridlock anymore, and so lets get the program through. And I believe itll work because, as Ross said, we got the plans. The plans are all over Washington. And Ive put ours together in something called the Agenda for American Renewal, and it makes sense, its sensible, it creates jobs, it gets to the base of the kind of jobs we need. And so Ill just be asking for support to get that put into effect. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Weve got the plan announced for what we can do for small business. Ive already put forward things thatll get this country working fast, some of which have been echoed here tonight– investment tax allowance, capital gains reduction, more on research and development, tax credit for first- time home buyers. What Im going to do is say to Jim Baker when this campaign is over, all right, lets sit down now, you do in domestic affairs what youve done in foreign affairs, be kind of the economic coordinator of all the domestic side of the House, and that includes all the economic side, all the training side, and bring this program together. Were going to have a new Congress, and were going to say to them, youve listened to the voters the way we have. Nobody wants gridlock anymore, and so lets get the program through. And I believe itll work because, as Ross said, we got the plans. The plans are all over Washington. And Ive put ours together in something called the Agenda for American Renewal, and it makes sense, its sensible, it creates jobs, it gets to the base of the kind of jobs we need. And so Ill just be asking for support to get that put into effect. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. The next question goes to Governor Clinton for 2 minutes. It will be asked by Sandy. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | All right. The next question goes to Governor Clinton for 2 minutes. It will be asked by Sandy. | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Governor Clinton, when a president running for the first time gets into the office and wants to do something about the economy, he finds in Washington theres a person who has much more power over the economy than he does; the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, accountable to no one. That being the case, would you go along with proposals made by Treasury Secretary James Brady and Congressman Lee Hamilton to make the Federal Reserve Board chairman somehow more accountable to elected officials? |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Governor Clinton, when a president running for the first time gets into the office and wants to do something about the economy, he finds in Washington theres a person who has much more power over the economy than he does; the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, accountable to no one. That being the case, would you go along with proposals made by Treasury Secretary James Brady and Congressman Lee Hamilton to make the Federal Reserve Board chairman somehow more accountable to elected officials? | Bill Clinton | Candidate | Well, let me say that I think that we might ought to review the terms, the way it works. But frankly, I dont think thats the problem today. We have low interest rates today. At least we have low interest rates that the Fed can control. Our long- term interest rates are still pretty high because of our deficit and because of our economic performance. And there was a terrible reaction internationally to Mr. Bush saying he was going to give us 4 more years of trickle- down economics– another across- the- board tax cut and most of it going to the wealthy, with no real guarantee of investment. But I think the important thing– the important thing– is to use the powers the president does have on the assumption that, given the condition of this economy, were going to keep interest rates down if we have the discipline to increase investment and reduce the debt at the same time. That is my commitment. I think the American people are ready for action. I think Congress is hungry for someone who will work with them instead of manipulate them. Someone who will not veto a bill that has an investment tax credit, middle class tax relief, research and development tax credits as Mr. Bush has done. Give me a chance to do that. I dont have to worry in the near term about the Federal Reserve. Their policies so far, it seems to me, are pretty sound. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | Well, let me say that I think that we might ought to review the terms, the way it works. But frankly, I dont think thats the problem today. We have low interest rates today. At least we have low interest rates that the Fed can control. Our long- term interest rates are still pretty high because of our deficit and because of our economic performance. And there was a terrible reaction internationally to Mr. Bush saying he was going to give us 4 more years of trickle- down economics– another across- the- board tax cut and most of it going to the wealthy, with no real guarantee of investment. But I think the important thing– the important thing– is to use the powers the president does have on the assumption that, given the condition of this economy, were going to keep interest rates down if we have the discipline to increase investment and reduce the debt at the same time. That is my commitment. I think the American people are ready for action. I think Congress is hungry for someone who will work with them instead of manipulate them. Someone who will not veto a bill that has an investment tax credit, middle class tax relief, research and development tax credits as Mr. Bush has done. Give me a chance to do that. I dont have to worry in the near term about the Federal Reserve. Their policies so far, it seems to me, are pretty sound. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush you have one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush you have one minute. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I dont think the Fed ought to be put under the Executive Branch. There is a separation there. I think thats fine. Alan Greenspan is respected. Ive had some arguments with him about the speed in which we might have lowered interest rates, but Governor Clinton, he talks about the reaction to the markets. There was a momentary fear that he might win and that the markets went phwee, down like that. So I dont think we can judge on, the stock market has been strong. Its been very strong since Ive been president. And they recognize we got great difficulties, but theyre also much more optimistic than the pessimists we have up here tonight. In terms of vetoing tax bills, youre darn right. I am going to protect the American taxpayer against the spend and tax Congress. And Im going to keep on vetoing them, because I dont think were taxed too little. I think the governments spending too much. So Governor Clinton can label it tax for the rich or anything he wants. Im going to protect the working man by continuing to veto, and to threaten to veto until we get this new Congress, and then were going to move forward on our plan. I’ve got to protect them. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | I dont think the Fed ought to be put under the Executive Branch. There is a separation there. I think thats fine. Alan Greenspan is respected. Ive had some arguments with him about the speed in which we might have lowered interest rates, but Governor Clinton, he talks about the reaction to the markets. There was a momentary fear that he might win and that the markets went phwee, down like that. So I dont think we can judge on, the stock market has been strong. Its been very strong since Ive been president. And they recognize we got great difficulties, but theyre also much more optimistic than the pessimists we have up here tonight. In terms of vetoing tax bills, youre darn right. I am going to protect the American taxpayer against the spend and tax Congress. And Im going to keep on vetoing them, because I dont think were taxed too little. I think the governments spending too much. So Governor Clinton can label it tax for the rich or anything he wants. Im going to protect the working man by continuing to veto, and to threaten to veto until we get this new Congress, and then were going to move forward on our plan. I’ve got to protect them. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Mr. Perot, one minute. | Ross Perot | Candidate | Keep the Federal Reserve independent, but lets live in a world of reality. We live in a global economy, not a national economy. These interest rates we have now dont make any sense. We have a four trillion dollar debt, and only in America would you finance seventy percent of it five years or less. So seventy percent of our debt is five years or less. Its very interest sensitive. We have a four percent gap between what we pay for treasuries, and what Germany pays for one to five year treasuries. That gap is going to close, because the Arabs, the Japanese and folks in this country are going to start buying German treasuries because they can get more money. Every time our interest rates go up one percent, that adds 28 billion dollars to the deficit or to the debt. Whichever place you put it. We are sitting on a ticking time bomb folks, because we have totally mismanaged our country, and we had better get it back under control. Just think in your own business, if you had all of your long term problems financed short term. Youd go broke in a hurry. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Keep the Federal Reserve independent, but lets live in a world of reality. We live in a global economy, not a national economy. These interest rates we have now dont make any sense. We have a four trillion dollar debt, and only in America would you finance seventy percent of it five years or less. So seventy percent of our debt is five years or less. Its very interest sensitive. We have a four percent gap between what we pay for treasuries, and what Germany pays for one to five year treasuries. That gap is going to close, because the Arabs, the Japanese and folks in this country are going to start buying German treasuries because they can get more money. Every time our interest rates go up one percent, that adds 28 billion dollars to the deficit or to the debt. Whichever place you put it. We are sitting on a ticking time bomb folks, because we have totally mismanaged our country, and we had better get it back under control. Just think in your own business, if you had all of your long term problems financed short term. Youd go broke in a hurry. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Were going to move to foreign affairs. The first question goes to Mr. Perot for a two minute answer, and Sandy will ask it. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Were going to move to foreign affairs. The first question goes to Mr. Perot for a two minute answer, and Sandy will ask it. | Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Mr Perot, in the postwar coldwar environment, what should be the overriding U. S. national interest? And what can the United States do, and what can it afford to do, to defend the national interest? |
Sander Vanocur | Moderator | Mr Perot, in the postwar coldwar environment, what should be the overriding U. S. national interest? And what can the United States do, and what can it afford to do, to defend the national interest? | Ross Perot | Candidate | Again, if youre not rich, youre not a superpower. So we have two that Id put as number one. I have number 1 and 1A. One is weve got to have the money to be able to pay for defense, and weve got to manufacture here. Believe it or not folks, you cant ship it all overseas, youve got to make it here. And you cant convert from potato chips to airplanes in an emergency. See, Willow Run could be converted from cars to airplanes in World War II because it was here. Weve got to make things here. You cant ship them overseas anymore. I hope we can talk more about that. Second thing, on priorities. Weve got to help Russia succeed in its revolution and all of its republics. When we think of Russia, remember were thinking of many countries, now. Weve got to help them. Thats pennies on the dollar compared to renewing the cold war. Third, weve got all kinds of agreements on paper, and some that are being executed on getting rid of nuclear warheads. Russia and its republics are out of control or at best in weak control right now. Its a very unstable situation. Youve got every rich Middle Eastern country over there trying to buy nuclear weapons. As you well know. And that will lead to another five star migraine headache down the road. We really need to nail down the big intercontinental ballistic missiles, the ones that can hit us from Russia. And weve focused on the tactical. Weve made real progress there. Weve got some agreement on the nuclear, but we dont have those things put away yet. The sooner the better. So, in terms of priorities, weve got to be financially strong. Number two, weve got to take care of this missile situation and try to get the nuclear war behind us and give this thing very high priority. And number three, we need to help and support Russia and the republics in every possible way to become democratic capitalistic societies, and not just sit back and let those countries continue in turmoil. Because they could go back worse than things used to be. And believe me there are a lot of old boys in the K. G. B. and the military that liked it better the way it used to be. |
Ross Perot | Candidate | Again, if youre not rich, youre not a superpower. So we have two that Id put as number one. I have number 1 and 1A. One is weve got to have the money to be able to pay for defense, and weve got to manufacture here. Believe it or not folks, you cant ship it all overseas, youve got to make it here. And you cant convert from potato chips to airplanes in an emergency. See, Willow Run could be converted from cars to airplanes in World War II because it was here. Weve got to make things here. You cant ship them overseas anymore. I hope we can talk more about that. Second thing, on priorities. Weve got to help Russia succeed in its revolution and all of its republics. When we think of Russia, remember were thinking of many countries, now. Weve got to help them. Thats pennies on the dollar compared to renewing the cold war. Third, weve got all kinds of agreements on paper, and some that are being executed on getting rid of nuclear warheads. Russia and its republics are out of control or at best in weak control right now. Its a very unstable situation. Youve got every rich Middle Eastern country over there trying to buy nuclear weapons. As you well know. And that will lead to another five star migraine headache down the road. We really need to nail down the big intercontinental ballistic missiles, the ones that can hit us from Russia. And weve focused on the tactical. Weve made real progress there. Weve got some agreement on the nuclear, but we dont have those things put away yet. The sooner the better. So, in terms of priorities, weve got to be financially strong. Number two, weve got to take care of this missile situation and try to get the nuclear war behind us and give this thing very high priority. And number three, we need to help and support Russia and the republics in every possible way to become democratic capitalistic societies, and not just sit back and let those countries continue in turmoil. Because they could go back worse than things used to be. And believe me there are a lot of old boys in the K. G. B. and the military that liked it better the way it used to be. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Governor Clinton, one minute. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | In order to keep America the strongest nation in the world, we need some continuity and some change. There are three fundamental challenges. First of all, the world is still a dangerous and uncertain place. We need a new military and a new national security policy equal to the challenges of a post cold war era, a smaller permanent military force, but one that is more mobile, well trained with high technology equipment. We need to continue the negotiations to reduce the nuclear arsenals in the Soviet Union, the former Soviet Union, and the United States. We need to stop this proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Second, we have to face that in this world, economic security is a whole lot of national security. Our dollars at an all time low against some foreign currencies. Were weak in the world. We must rebuild Americas strength at home. And finally, we ought to be promoting the democratic impulses around the world. Democracies are our partners. They dont go to war with each other. Theyre reliable friends in the future. National security, economic strength, democracy. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | In order to keep America the strongest nation in the world, we need some continuity and some change. There are three fundamental challenges. First of all, the world is still a dangerous and uncertain place. We need a new military and a new national security policy equal to the challenges of a post cold war era, a smaller permanent military force, but one that is more mobile, well trained with high technology equipment. We need to continue the negotiations to reduce the nuclear arsenals in the Soviet Union, the former Soviet Union, and the United States. We need to stop this proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Second, we have to face that in this world, economic security is a whole lot of national security. Our dollars at an all time low against some foreign currencies. Were weak in the world. We must rebuild Americas strength at home. And finally, we ought to be promoting the democratic impulses around the world. Democracies are our partners. They dont go to war with each other. Theyre reliable friends in the future. National security, economic strength, democracy. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President Bush, one minute. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, we still are the envy of the world in terms of our military. Theres no question about that. Were the envy of the world in terms of our economy, despite the difficulties were having. Theres no question about that. Our exports are dramatically up. I might say to Mr. Perot, I can understand why you might have missed it, because theres so much fascination with trivia, but I worked out a deal with Boris Yeltsin to eliminate, get rid of entirely, the most destabilizing weapons of all, the SS- 18, the intercontinental ballistic missile. I mean, thats been done. And thank God, it has, because the parents of these young people around here go to bed at night without the same fear of nuclear war. We made dramatic progress. And so, weve got a good military. the question, to sort of get a new military, get the best in the world, we got it, and they’re keeping the peace, and theyre respected around the world. And were more respected because of the way we have conducted ourselves. We didnt listen to the nuclear freeze crowd. We said, “Peace through strength, ” and it worked and the cold war is over. And America understands that. But were so, turned so inward we dont understand the global picture. And we are helping democracy, Ross. The Freedom Support Act is something I got through the Congress, and its a very good thing, because it does exactly what you say, and I think you agree with that, to help Russian democracy. And were going to keep on doing that. |
George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, we still are the envy of the world in terms of our military. Theres no question about that. Were the envy of the world in terms of our economy, despite the difficulties were having. Theres no question about that. Our exports are dramatically up. I might say to Mr. Perot, I can understand why you might have missed it, because theres so much fascination with trivia, but I worked out a deal with Boris Yeltsin to eliminate, get rid of entirely, the most destabilizing weapons of all, the SS- 18, the intercontinental ballistic missile. I mean, thats been done. And thank God, it has, because the parents of these young people around here go to bed at night without the same fear of nuclear war. We made dramatic progress. And so, weve got a good military. the question, to sort of get a new military, get the best in the world, we got it, and they’re keeping the peace, and theyre respected around the world. And were more respected because of the way we have conducted ourselves. We didnt listen to the nuclear freeze crowd. We said, “Peace through strength, ” and it worked and the cold war is over. And America understands that. But were so, turned so inward we dont understand the global picture. And we are helping democracy, Ross. The Freedom Support Act is something I got through the Congress, and its a very good thing, because it does exactly what you say, and I think you agree with that, to help Russian democracy. And were going to keep on doing that. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Next question is for Governor Clinton, and John will ask it. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | Next question is for Governor Clinton, and John will ask it. | John Mashek | Moderator | Governor Clinton, you accused the President of coddling tyrants, including those in Beijing. As President, how would you exert U. S. power to influence affairs in China. |
John Mashek | Moderator | Governor Clinton, you accused the President of coddling tyrants, including those in Beijing. As President, how would you exert U. S. power to influence affairs in China. | Bill Clinton | Candidate | I think our relationships with China are important and I dont want to isolate China, but I think it is a mistake for us to do what this Administration did when all those kids went out there carrying the Statue of Liberty in Tiananmen Square. Mr Bush sent two people in secret to toast the Chinese leaders and basically tell them not to worry about it. They rewarded him by opening negotiations with Iran to transfer nuclear technology. That was their response to that sort of action. Now that the voices in the Congress and throughout the country have insisted that we do something about China, look at what has happened. China has finally agreed to stop sending us products made with prison labor. Not because we coddled them, but because the Administration was pushed into doing something about it. And recently the Chinese have announced they are going to lower some barriers to our products, which they ought to do since they have a 15 billion dollar trade surplus with the United States under Mr. Bush. The second biggest surplus next to Japan. So I would be firm. I would say if you want to continue as Most Favored Nation status for your government owned industries as well as your private ones, observe human rights in the future. Open your society. Recognize the legitimacy of those kids that were carrying the Statue of Liberty. If we can stand up for our economics, we ought to be able to preserve the democratic interests of the people of China. And over the long run they will be more reliable partners. |
Bill Clinton | Candidate | I think our relationships with China are important and I dont want to isolate China, but I think it is a mistake for us to do what this Administration did when all those kids went out there carrying the Statue of Liberty in Tiananmen Square. Mr Bush sent two people in secret to toast the Chinese leaders and basically tell them not to worry about it. They rewarded him by opening negotiations with Iran to transfer nuclear technology. That was their response to that sort of action. Now that the voices in the Congress and throughout the country have insisted that we do something about China, look at what has happened. China has finally agreed to stop sending us products made with prison labor. Not because we coddled them, but because the Administration was pushed into doing something about it. And recently the Chinese have announced they are going to lower some barriers to our products, which they ought to do since they have a 15 billion dollar trade surplus with the United States under Mr. Bush. The second biggest surplus next to Japan. So I would be firm. I would say if you want to continue as Most Favored Nation status for your government owned industries as well as your private ones, observe human rights in the future. Open your society. Recognize the legitimacy of those kids that were carrying the Statue of Liberty. If we can stand up for our economics, we ought to be able to preserve the democratic interests of the people of China. And over the long run they will be more reliable partners. | Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President you have one minute. |
Jim Lehrer | Moderator | President you have one minute. | George H. W. Bush | Candidate | Well, the Administration was the first major country to stand up to the abuse in Tiananmen Square. We are the one that worked out the prison labor deal. We are the ones that lowered the barrier to products with Carla Hills negotiation. I am the one that said lets keep the M. F. N. because you see China moving towards a free market economy. To do what the Congress and Governor Clinton is suggesting, youd isolate and ruin Hong Kong. They are making some progress, not enough for us. We were the first ones to put sanctions on. We still have them on, on some things. But Governor Clintons philosophy is isolate them. He says dont do it, but the policies hes expounding of putting conditions on M. F. N. and kind of humiliating them is not the way you make the kind of progress we are getting. And Ive stood up with these people, and I understand what you have to do to be strong in this situation, and its moving, not as fast as wed like. But you isolate China and turn them inward, and then weve made a tremendous mistake. And Im not going to do it. And Ive had to fight a lot of people that were saying human rights, and we’re the ones that put the sanctions on and stood for it. And he can insult General Scowcroft if he wants to. They didnt go over to coddle. He went over to say we must make the very changes theyre making now. |