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DANIEL SCHORR: When the candidates on the campaign trail talk of the need for change in Washington, they're talking about many kinds of abuses. There is the Jack Abramoff-type lobbying scandal, planting cohorts in the administration who will then do the bidding of your clients. There is the earmark scandal, sneaking items into appropriations bills that will serve some specific interest at home. There is the revolving door scandal, leaving Congress to make more money lobbying Congress for some well paying interests. And there is a scandal of a firing of U.S. attorneys to bring in administration supporters. DANIEL SCHORR: And now, there is a scandal I've never even heard of before, the monitoring scandal involving, of all people, former Attorney General John Ashcroft. Yeah, the one who made himself a hero by refusing on his hospital bed to sign an extension of the Surveillance Law. DANIEL SCHORR: The monitoring scandal has to do with companies that escape prosecution by promising to mend their ways. They agreed to have monitors whom they will pay to make sure that they stay on the straight and narrow. And so, as revealed by The Washington Post, when the Zimmer Company of Indiana, which makes medical equipment, was threatened with prosecution for paying kickbacks to doctors to promote its products, it promised to reform and it agreed to a monitorship. DANIEL SCHORR: The monitor is selected by the federal prosecutor, in this case, U.S. attorney Christopher Christie, a New Jersey Republican, possible candidate for governor. He selected the consulting firm headed by John Ashcroft. That is where $25 million in company money that a prosecutor lavished on the former attorney general and that amounted to a no bid contract. DANIEL SCHORR: So, the monitorship practice can allow a company to flout the law and escape punishment. All they have to do is strike a deal with the U.S. attorney that puts an administration crony into the boardroom. And since the administration has seen to it that most U.S. attorneys are friendly to business, the companies don't have to worry too much. One exhibit in a list of what needs changing when the next president inaugurates the era of change. DANIEL SCHORR: This is Daniel Schorr.

Lucrative contracts called "monitorships," like the one a U.S. attorney in New Jersey awarded to John Ashcroft, give the appearance of favoritism for administration cronies, NPR Senior News Analyst Daniel Schorr says.

Lukrative Verträge, die als "Überwachungsaufträge" bezeichnet werden, wie derjenige, den ein US-Staatsanwalt in New Jersey an John Ashcroft vergeben hat, erwecken den Anschein einer Bevorzugung von Regierungskumpanen, sagt NPR Senior Nachrichtenanalyst Daniel Schorr.

NPR高级新闻分析师丹尼尔·肖尔称，就像新泽西州的一位联邦检察官授予约翰·阿什克罗夫特的被称为“监督”的利润丰厚的合同，给人一种偏袒政府亲信的感觉。

RENEE MONTAGNE, HOST: NPR's business news starts with more budget cuts in Greece. RENEE MONTAGNE, HOST: Greece's leaders are expected to sign off, today, on more painful austerity measures – the price that country must pay for a new bailout. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: The multi-billion dollar loans and a separate debt-reduction deal are needed to avoid a formal default, not to mention Greece's exit from the eurozone. They could lose the euro as their currency if they don't follow through on this. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Joanna Kakissis has the latest from Athens. JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: The leaders of the three parties in a coalition government have been putting off this decision for days. The delay is threatening a separate bond-swap deal with private creditors to cut Greek debt by at least 50 percent. But politicians have two difficult choices: Accept the deal, which means angry voters at spring elections, or reject the deal and send Greece into a chaotic default when bond repayments come due next month. JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: The new bailout deal would give Greece close to $171 billion. But in exchange for that, the government must cut spending, recapitalize Greek banks and reduce the minimum wage by at least 20 percent. JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Greeks strongly oppose the cuts. The minimum wage reduction prompted a general strike by unions today. Unions also oppose another measure, cutting 15,000 state jobs. Until the debt crisis, it was nearly impossible to lose a public sector job here, since the constitution protects state workers. Eurozone leaders are proposing more control over new bailout loans. Greek politicians, meanwhile, are hoping they won't lose control of an angry public. JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: For NPR News, I'm Joanna Kakissis in Athens.

Greek leaders are supposed to meet again Tuesday to finally sign off on more painful austerity measures in exchange for a new bailout. Greece needs more loans — and a separate debt-reduction deal — to avoid a messy default, which could lead to an exit from the eurozone.

Die griechischen Anführer sollen sich am Dienstag erneut treffen, um im Gegenzug für ein neues Rettungspaket endlich weitere schmerzhafte Sparmaßnahmen zu beschließen. Griechenland braucht weitere Kredite - und einen separaten Schuldenerlass -, um einen chaotischen Zahlungsausfall zu vermeiden, der zu einem Austritt aus der Eurozone führen könnte.

希腊领导人将于周二再次召开会议，最终签署更为痛苦的紧缩措施，以换取新的救助计划。希腊需要更多贷款——以及单独的减债协议——以避免混乱的违约，这可能导致希腊退出欧元区。

MELISSA BLOCK, HOST: In Syria, the 1980s were marked by a bloody civil war between the Sunni majority and the minority Alawite Muslim government. That's now the setting for a novel titled "In Praise of Hatred." It's by Syrian writer Khaled Khalifa. It's now available in the United States and a translation by Larry Price. And Alan Cheuse has our review. ALAN CHEUSE, BYLINE: The unnamed narrator opens her episodic story as she's studying a family photograph. For a number of chapters after this she embellishes the faith and the foibles of the family. Parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts and uncles, all appeal to her inquiring mind as she tries to make her own full dressed portrait of an extended Syrian household caught in a moment of time. ALAN CHEUSE, BYLINE: As the government begins to crack down on the politics of the majority Sunni clans, that changes everything for the girl's family. Her early life of girlish dreams and family pleasures disintegrate. Skirmishes in the street become commonplace. And with the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, the war between the Sunni majority and the Alawite government minority grows in intensity. Family members go into hiding. Others stand tall against the opposition. ALAN CHEUSE, BYLINE: Eventually the girl, now a young woman, is arrested for revolutionary activities and she spends more than five years in prison. But only after this does she realize, or so she tells us, that hatred was worthy of praise as it lives within us exactly as love does, it grows moment by moment in order to settle finely in our souls. And we don't want to escape it even when it causes us pain. ALAN CHEUSE, BYLINE: The episodic design of the story doesn't lend itself much to a dramatic rendering of these difficult years in Syria's history. I went around and around from fascination to boredom to pleasure and back again. Overall, if you can muster the patience, this novel will teach you some important things about this still mysterious time and place. MELISSA BLOCK, HOST: The book is "In Praise of Hatred," written by Khaled Khalifa and translated by Larry Price. Our review came from Alan Cheuse. His recent story collection is "An Authentic Captain Marvel Ring." AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: This is NPR News.

Alan Cheuse reviews the novel In Praise of Hatred, by Khaled Khalifa. The book, which was recently translated to English, features a young Muslim girl in 1980s Syria.

Alan Cheuse rezensiert den Roman In Lob des Hasses (In Praise of Hatred) von Khaled Khalifa. Das Buch, das kürzlich ins Englische übersetzt wurde, handelt von einem jungen muslimischen Mädchen im Syrien der 1980er Jahre.

艾伦·丘斯评论了哈立德·哈利法的小说《歌颂仇恨》。这本书最近被翻译成英文，讲述了一个20世纪80年代叙利亚的年轻穆斯林女孩的故事。

NEAL CONAN, host: This is TALK OF THE NATION. Im Neal Conan in Washington. NEAL CONAN, host: Nine months after a catastrophic earthquake leveled much of Port-au-Prince, hundreds of thousands of Haitians still remain homeless, rubble still litters many neighborhoods, and now the country is grappling with its first cholera outbreak in decades, centered of the coastal city of Saint-Marc, 40 miles north of the capital. NEAL CONAN, host: Many aid groups continue to provide essentials: food, water, shelter, medical care. Others, though, focus on the long haul and work to rebuild systems to support local farmers or develop schools to help meet the demand for medical and mental health professionals. NEAL CONAN, host: If you've been to Haiti recently, did you see progress? Can Port-au-Prince be rebuilt better? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our website. Thats at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, host: Later in the program, Ask Amy's Amy Dickenson on productive ways to ask for an apology. If you've tried to solicit an I'm sorry, did it work, or are you still waiting? Email us your story, that's talk@npr.org. NEAL CONAN, host: But first, rebuilding Haiti, and we begin with Joia Mukherjee, chief medical officer for the group Partners in Health, also a professor with Harvard Medical School. She joins us now from member station WBUR in Boston. And Dr. Mukherjee, thanks very much for being on TALK OF THE NATION today. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): You're welcome, Neal. Thanks for having me. NEAL CONAN, host: And I know you've been coordinating Partner in Health's response to the cholera outbreak. Any signs that the illness is spreading into Port-au-Prince? Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): No, we've been quite fortunate so far. I think there have been a few cases in Port-au-Prince, but we haven't seen spread within Port-au-Prince as of yet. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): The coordination, I just want to make it clear, that is going on, on the ground by our Haitian team. I'm sort of helping to support what they need, but they have just done amazing work in reaching out to communities to prevent the spread even within our own catchment area of Saint-Marc and prevent the spread elsewhere in Haiti. NEAL CONAN, host: And I'm told that cholera, though once you've got is quite terrible and easily spread, on the other hand is fairly also easily treated and prevented. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Yeah, very easy to treat. All you do is rehydrate someone. You sometimes may use antibiotics, but it's not the mainstay of treatment. The mainstay is just making sure people don't die of dehydration. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): The difficulty is it is a rapidly dehydrating, diarrheal disease, so much quicker than the other forms of diarrhea we commonly see in Haiti and elsewhere. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Prevention is soap, water, purifying, you know, water with chlorine tablets. I mean, it's fairly straightforward. But getting to all of the areas where people live is the big challenges, delivering those messages and the tools for prevention. NEAL CONAN, host: Now, Partners in Health has been in Haiti providing services for two decades, including responses to crises like this cholera outbreak. But I wonder, has the earthquake provided an opportunity to help rebuild a more robust health system for the future? Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Not yet, Neal, and I hope that it will. I mean, we are, ourselves, working closely with the Ministry of Health to build a very large, state-of-the-art teaching hospital in central Haiti. But the medical school, the university hospital, the nursing school - all of those remain nearly incapacitated, if not totally incapacitated. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): The facilities throughout Haiti are really under-funded, understaffed. We're very fortunate that we have been working for so long that the 10 facilities where we work in Haiti, we have staff, we have supplies. I'm very proud to report that we've not had a single stock-out since the beginning of this epidemic, and yet it's our warehouse, jointly operated between Partners in Health and the ministry, that's supplying all of the affected areas in Haiti. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): So I think, you know, we know how to rebuilt systems, but that money has not been flowing reliably into Haiti as of yet. It has been pledged, but we have not seen a lot of movement for it on rebuilding or building the health infrastructure of Haiti. NEAL CONAN, host: Where were those pledges from, other countries, including the United States? Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Yes, and I think it's it behooves all of us who care about global poverty, and Haiti in particular, to really track that money and say who's pledged what. And, you know, some of it is now posted on the website of the Office of the Special Envoy of the U.N., who's pledged what. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): But it's a very small amount of money that's actually gone to Haiti and even a smaller amount that's gone to the government of Haiti, who is actually charged with providing the majority of public services, obviously. NEAL CONAN, host: And if the, well, inadequate facilities that were there have now been destroyed and are not up and running, clearly this is going to be a continuing problem for years ahead, until they are up and running. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Absolutely, absolutely. And we believe that there are really two discrete but interconnected aspects to this that need to be simultaneously done. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): One is to develop a robust public system because that's the only system that will get as far as Haitians are living, where they are, you know, villages, towns. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): And the second is really to mobilize the community to be agents of health. And we believe that paying people to do that work is also a way of giving employment and improving the economy. And the service sector can be a robust engine for economic development, as well. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): And so another thing that's really been remarkable to me during this cholera outbreak, and again, this is I just got off the phone with our director of the program in the Artibonite at Saint-Marc, in Saint-Marc, Dr. Patrick Almazor, and he has told me that none of our HIV-infected patients have gotten cholera. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): And that is because they're getting excellent community-based care. They have people that are working with them at the home level. They're giving them messages of general health and hygiene, helping them with water and food security. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Similarly, the kids that we're taking care of in our malnutrition program, none of those kids have gotten cholera. So these are groups that in general we would consider quite vulnerable to contracting cholera and dying from cholera, and yet in these two very vulnerable groups, we have had adequate prevention even without the additional effort we've put in, just because our community-based system works. NEAL CONAN, host: We're asking those of you who have been to Haiti recently to call us and tell us: Have you seen progress? 800-989-8255. Email talk@npr.org. Dominic's(ph) on the line, calling from St. Louis. DOMINIC (Caller): Yes, hi, how are you? NEAL CONAN, host: Good, thanks. DOMINIC (Caller): My brother's been to Haiti twice, recently. He went in March, after the earthquake, and he just got back last month. So I was asking him about how did it go. And he said, well, Haiti looks - Port-au-Prince look like, as if the earthquake just had happened in July. DOMINIC (Caller): I mean, nothing has changed from when he left. To him, he hasn't seen any changes from March, when he was there, to last month. NEAL CONAN, host: Dr. Mukherjee, I know you've been there recently. What do you see? Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): I agree with Dominic's brother. There's not a lot of forward movement. There's still a lot of rubble that hasn't been cleared. There are still huge numbers, hundreds of thousands of displaced people living in absolute squalor. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): And I think again, you know, hopefully if there is one small, positive thing that can come from this epidemic I hate to even, you know, sort of conflate positivity with such a terrible thing, but it will be refocusing people's attention on the living conditions in Haiti and to say yes, there was an outpouring of support and sympathy, but where is that money, and let's figure out a real tracking system with real accountability both for governments that pledge the money but for NGOs that have received the money, as well. I don't see massive changes since January 12. NEAL CONAN, host: Dominic, thanks very much for the call. NEAL CONAN, host: And finally, Dr. Mukherjee, a lot of people, as you say, transparent systems would make people more confident. You work with the Ministry of Health and have for a long time. Are they reliable partners? Does money vanish? Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Sure, they are reliable partners, and sure, money vanished. I think if if the crisis on Wall Street taught us anything, it should be that where there is money, there is corruption and that third-world governments don't have a lock on corruption, nor do governments have a lock on corruption, that the reason we are able to prevent corruption in most wealthier countries more easily than poor countries is because we put money into systems. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): And once systems and regulation starts to fall apart, then corruption will occur, or corruption will become rampant. And so the government of Haiti is a very at least in the Ministry of Health very reliable partners we have. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): But they need help - just as much as they need help with medicines and protocols, they need help with the systems of accounting and reporting. And they've asked for our help and been very open about, you know, us accompanying them as, you know, the government doing it, but we can help develop systems, we can help with accounting. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): The I'm an AIDS doctor. If I went to central Haiti and dumped a bunch of anti-retrovirals in a town, I wouldn't be doing my job. My job is to help design systems and train people how to use those systems. And I think we should look at foreign aid that way. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): Rather than just say governments are corrupt, say governments have inadequate regulation and systems, and let's help them both get the money and manage the money. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): And I think we can do that, and we've done that successful for many years in Haiti. We're doing it in Rwanda and Lesotho and elsewhere. NEAL CONAN, host: Dr. Mukherjee, thanks very much, and good luck you. Dr. JOIA MUKHERJEE (Harvard Medical School): You're welcome. Thank you, Neal. NEAL CONAN, host: Dr. Joia Mukherjee, chief medical officer for the international nonprofit Partners in Health, joined us today from member station WBUR in Boston. NEAL CONAN, host: In the aftermath of disaster, meeting people's physical medical needs is often the highest priority. Tragedies, though, can take a tremendous emotional toll that lasts long after rebuilding is underway. NEAL CONAN, host: We turn now to Dr. James Gordon, founder and director of the Center for Mind-Body Medicine, which has worked with trauma survivors on the U.S. Gulf Coast, in Kosovo and in Gaza, and he joins us now by phone from San Diego. And Dr. Gordon, nice to have you back on TALK OF THE NATION. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Good. It's nice to be here, Neal. NEAL CONAN, host: You were last with us in March and anticipated a growing need for mental health support for quake survivors. Have you seen the need, and have you seen the need met? Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Well, the need has not yet been met. The need has become clear to everybody. We at the Center for Mind-Body Medicine are working with every major health and mental health organization in Haiti, including the Ministry of Health and Partners in Health and the Catholic Church and the medical school and the nursing school and the general hospital. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): And everyone says, although there are the short-term needs, the direct, medical needs - of course, cholera being the most striking example right now - but the long-term need that everyone agrees is likely to be paramount is the psychological need. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): And there really, there weren't before the earthquake, and there certainly aren't after the earthquake, the kind of organized services or organized response that's needed. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): And so we are in Haiti to train people to provide the kind of primary mental health care that's needed for the whole population. NEAL CONAN, host: And do you have a facility to do that? Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Well, we have funds to begin, and we have funds from one of my board members. Donald de Laski has funded the first effort, which will train 120 leaders from those major organizations. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): And we're working and everybody has been so responsive. That's quite because they all recognize the need, the long-term goal of training 1,500 people and creating a network of healing throughout Haiti, we need considerably more support to do. We're ready to do it. It's what we have done in Gaza. NEAL CONAN, host: Dr. Gordon, hang with us. We're going to take a short break. And those of you who have been to Haiti recently, give us a call, report on what you've seen and experienced there. Has there been measurable progress? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. Stay with us. I'm Neal Conan. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, host: This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. Im Neal Conan in Washington. NEAL CONAN, host: The cholera epidemic in Haiti appears to have stabilized, for now. Health care workers are watching the situation closely. More than 300 people are reported dead. NEAL CONAN, host: Still, more than a million people now live in camps around Haiti. January's earthquake destroyed more than 100,000 homes and apartment buildings. Rebuilding is slow, where it's begun at all. NEAL CONAN, host: We're talking today about building a better Haiti. If you've been there recently, did you see progress? Can Port-au-Prince be rebuilt better? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our website. Thats at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, host: Right now we're talking with James Gordon, a psychiatrist and founder and director of the Center for Mind-Body Medicine. Just before the break, you were talking about training - setting up a facility, and there's money for it, to train a cohort of new mental health professionals. It's significant, it's a start, but it also seems like a drop in the bucket. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Well, it's you know, one of the things that's so striking is that everybody is so on edge in Haiti. I think we saw little glimpses of it with the response to trying to establish clinics for cholera, that the anger and the is just under the surface, not on the sense - terrible sense of loss. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): When I was down there a month or two ago and did some workshops, one of the things that virtually everyone in the workshop said is: I'm so irritable. I get angry so much more easily than before. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): So everyone recognizes that the anger, the sadness and there's been no opportunity for most people to express what's going on inside. So we create groups for the helpers, both the professional helpers and also the leaders in the community, priests and nuns and voodoo healers, leaders of women's groups, as well as doctors and nurses. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): And they express what's inside, often for the first time, and then they learn very simple we teach them very simple techniques: to relax, to quiet themselves down, to access their imagination and their intuition so they can solve or at least take a more positive look at these incredibly difficult problems that everyone is facing. NEAL CONAN, host: here's an email we have from Mary Lou(ph) in New London, Ohio: I just returned from Haiti this past Sunday. I was part of a team representing the Ohio State University's Haiti Empowerment Project. NEAL CONAN, host: Our team conducted professional development seminars for the teachers of five tent communities and two other schools. Three of them also taught three days at a Port-au-Prince university. This was my first trip, and my emotions ranged from despair to hopefulness. NEAL CONAN, host: And also on the line with us is Mark(ph), and Mark's calling us from Charlotte. MARK (Caller): Yes, I recently returned. I'm actually going back tomorrow. But, you know, as far as progress, there isn't any progress. I mean, when you go to Port-au-Prince, you just see the people and the rubble, and all the tent cities. There's trafficking in children. MARK (Caller): There you know, there was a lot of funds collected for Haiti or designated that just hasn't happened. Even the American Red Cross, as recently, said that only 25 percent of what they received for donations Haiti has actually gone to Haiti. NEAL CONAN, host: And what are you doing there in Haiti, Mark? MARK (Caller): We're building a school up near Cap-Haitien. NEAL CONAN, host: And is it going ahead? Do you have money for that? MARK (Caller): Yes, thanks, thanks to the lord we have a generous donor that's helping us. But it's with a group called Hands for Haiti, and we're trying to build schools. But there's so many children. Half the children never get to go to school. NEAL CONAN, host: And Mark, good luck to you. Thanks very much for the call. MARK (Caller): All right, thank you. NEAL CONAN, host: Bye-bye. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Neal, what the email was saying, and also a little bit of what Mark was saying, is so familiar if you're in Haiti. At times there is this feeling of being so overwhelmed and so despairing, as so many people are. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): At the same time, when people come together, and when they can have something they can work on - whether it's building a school or developing skills for mental health or doing the kind of work that Partners in Health is doing out in the countryside - that changes the atmosphere. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): I think one of the most devastating problems is people feeling that there's no way for them to participate in the massive and creative change that's necessary. As we give people that opportunity, what I've observed is if they respond, then that helps them to shift how they feel, as well. NEAL CONAN, host: It's also if you can start to see progress, would not morale improve? You know, a little rubble is removed, doesn't that help? Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Yes, of course it does. And there's so much more to be done. I think one of the things that really needs to be and this is not my area of expertise, but it's clear that more attention needs to be paid to mobilizing people to do all of these practical tasks. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): We're doing that in the area of psychological self-care and mutual help. But it needs to be one with removing the rubble, with building houses, with, you know, restoring the educational system. Every step of the way, these projects have to be undertaken. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): And there are many, many people of good will, and I think that we need to really appreciate all the goodwill that's being shown. And all of us I was just talking with Quincy Jones, the composer and arranger. NEAL CONAN, host: Sure. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): We're saying, you know, we've got to work together. He's working on creating a music school. We're working psychologically. These efforts have to come together. NEAL CONAN, host: Dr. Gordon, we wish you the best of luck. Thanks very much for your time today. Dr. JAMES GORDON (Founder, Director, Center for Mind-Body Medicine): Thanks so much, Neal. It's great to be here and great you're doing the show. NEAL CONAN, host: Dr. James Gordon joined us by phone from San Diego, founder and director of the Center for Mind-Body Medicine, author of "Unstuck: Your Guide to the Seven-Stage Journey Out of Depression." NEAL CONAN, host: Joining us here in Studio 3A is Jose Andres. He's a James Beard award-winning chef and co-owner of a number of restaurants in the Washington, D.C., area and in Los Angeles. He also hosts the PBS television series "Made in Spain." Thanks very much for being with us today. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Very happy to be with you. NEAL CONAN, host: And you were in Haiti. What does a chef bring to Haiti? Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): That's what I was asking myself. But they were so happy I took the decision of going. A year and a half ago, a friend of mine gave me a solar kitchen. NEAL CONAN, host: A solar-powered kitchen? Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Cook stove, only used in the sun. And we were in the middle of a snowstorm in Bethesda. The power went off, and after the snowstorm, I put the cook stove, with my daughters, and we began cooking. Minus-five Celsius degrees, and we were cooking. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Reading about what happened in Haiti, knowing all the issues they were having using charcoal, 98 percent of the country total deforestation. NEAL CONAN, host: Yeah, there's very few trees left. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): I pick up the phone, and I call my friend, the one that gave me the solar kitchen, and I told him: how soon can you go to Haiti with me? Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): And in less than three weeks, we took 20 solar kitchens with us, and we went to Port-au-Prince, and I stayed there close to 11, 12 days. And I didn't go to help; I went to learn. I was very selfish. I went to try to learn if these solar kitchens could be, somehow, the solution to the future of a huge problem. And I came back, and I learned that they can be part of the solution. NEAL CONAN, host: Obviously, trees in Haiti, as you said, most of them have been cut down for fuel. They also, the lack of the deforestation contributes to the erosion problem because the trees are not there to soak up the water and hold the soil in place. NEAL CONAN, host: So obviously, 20 cook stoves, anything helps, but there's lots more to do. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): We need so much more to do. I'm about to go on Monday. I'm going six more days, because I already we identified already an orphanage. We are trying only to start feeding 1,000 kids to begin, because I need the home to start proving that using these solar ovens can be the solution for Haiti. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): So take a look at the issue. The mothers, that they are cooking, sometimes with their children right on their backs, using charcoal, all the fumes coming up in their lungs. NEAL CONAN, host: Sure. We just heard from the U.N. session a few weeks ago about the dangers of dirty cook stoves that contribute to all kinds of diseases. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): On top of that, I spent - I went to a beautiful village in the frontier with the Dominican Republic called Fonbarette(ph), beautiful. It looks almost like paradise if you look at the mountains, at the skyline. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): But then you see what happens, and these guys, the young kids, they spend half of their days looking for wood or going two, three hours away to bring one gallon of water back to their home. The only thing they do all day is to provide for the family's water, or in this case some wood, used to make a fire to being able to cook. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Imagine for a second that we are able to start providing cook stoves that use the sun. All of a sudden, these people have time in their hands to do something else, to start helping to be a part of the solution, rebuilding, to start going hopefully to schools, et cetera, et cetera. That's why these solar cook stoves, this clean energy, should be part of the future not only for Haiti but for any other country's needs around the round. NEAL CONAN, host: And did try out some of the 20 you brought down last time? Did they work well? Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): We tried many. The difficulty is to convince people that the need to stop using charcoal. Even you and I, we will have a hard time saying that we have to be feeding our families with this kind of UFO-look-alike kitchen. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): So the issue here is to start having a place that can have 20, 30, 40 of these kitchens up and running every day in a very efficient way to feed people. So I've been doing a lot of things, like, for example, partnering with Dr. Muhammad Yunus, the Nobel Prize 2006, where he's behind social business. You know one problem in Haiti? There's no other country in the world that has more nonprofits, more NGOs, but somehow we have these huge issues. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): We need to start not throwing money at the problem but starting investing more in the solutions and try to create a social business where people don't feel they're entitled to free things but try to create a system - very difficult, it's easier to say than to do - but trying to create a social business where people don't expect everything for free, that they have to start working and creating a system where they will feed people by making sure that the economy is helped by buying locally. Let's not send more food. Let's send food the first week, but after, let's work with the local farmers to make sure that those farmers become part of the solution of creating jobs, of making sure that the economy is self-sustaining. And this is - this should be the beginning of, hopefully, a long but beautiful recovery. NEAL CONAN, host: This is chef Jose Andres. 800-989-8255. Email talk@npr.org. And let's go next to Terry(ph). And Terry is with us from Brainerd in Minnesota. TERRY (Caller): Hello. NEAL CONAN, host: Hi there. TERRY (Caller): Yes, I just couldn't agree more with your previous caller there. I just returned from a 10-days trip to Haiti as a tourist, and I know that sounds a little odd, but it might be like my second midlife crisis, but I just decided to kind of head there and see things firsthand for myself. And I got to tell you, you know, I saw progress. I saw things getting done, but the most overwhelming thing that you see in Port-au-Prince and in Petionville is just the enormous amount of NGOs and their staff running around. I mean, they're just everywhere, and they themselves are almost a huge part of the economy. NEAL CONAN, host: Because they're obviously buying a lot of local things and employing local people? TERRY (Caller): Yeah. You know, if you went into restaurants and bars and discos, I mean, everywhere I went - and even though, you know, some might disagree with that, I mean they're very present. They're very - they're everywhere. And of course, you know, some of the Haitians kind of question that, you know, if they're there spending the money appropriately. The other thing the NGOs I couldn't help but notice is that they're very obsessed with their security, and to the Haitians, that's extremely offensive and often gets in the way of their progress. NEAL CONAN, host: Just going back to something you said a moment ago, we don't think of Port-au-Prince as a place where discos are up and running. TERRY (Caller): Oh, yes. You know, Petionville, especially a little bit more of a middle class neighborhood, you know, life goes on. I mean I met a lot of local university students, English-speaking students that, you know, there's discos, there's restaurants. There's a nightlife that's very vibrant, particularly in Petionville. NEAL CONAN, host: All right, Terry, thanks very much for the call. Appreciate it. TERRY (Caller): Thank you. NEAL CONAN, host: We're talking about rebuilding Port-au-Prince better nine months after the earthquake. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, host: And Jose Andres, I know - I read an account that you wrote about your visit to Port-au-Prince, and you were having what sounded like a wonderful meal in a local hotel - the restaurant of a local hotel, and I know you felt a little conflicted about it. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Very conflicted. What the last caller mentioned, it's what's happening, but you know, it's - as he said, it's part of the economy of rebuilding. Unfortunately, this is part of our world - is people that have everything, and these people that have nothing. I mean, a place like Haiti, you see everyone working side by side. You're in a hotel having a perfect meal, and right across from your hotel, literally two meters, three, five meters away from the door, you have a camp. And that makes you think. That makes you think. And this is why I came back and I incorporated these organizations that right now we are only three, four people, all central kitchen, with the intention of feeding the world in a clean sustainable way. NEAL CONAN, host: Have you considered the idea - and I'm just throwing this out there -that, you know, if you opened a restaurant there and employed people, that might be another way to contribute? Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Its some people that are thinking of doing this, even thinking about opening a hotel and becoming like a school. Me, I rather prefer trying to be helping those that have completely nothing. One of the great things that happened not too long ago, on September 21st, Secretary Hillary Clinton announced a global alliance for clean cook stoves. United States... NEAL CONAN, host: Yeah. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): ...is going to be almost putting over $50 million over the next five years to research and development to clean cook stoves of the future. This is a huge thing. This is a huge moment in history because probably it's the first time in history that you hear, in this case, the secretary, nonetheless, of the United States of America saying part of the future is clean cook stoves, and we're going to invest in it. NEAL CONAN, host: Let's get another caller in. Onife(ph) - and I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly - from Port Saint Lucie in Florida. ONIFE (Caller): Yes. NEAL CONAN, host: Go ahead. ONIFE (Caller): How are you? NEAL CONAN, host: I'm well, thank you. ONIFE (Caller): Yes. To respond to your question, like what we have seen in Haiti during our last visit - I was there a couple of weeks ago. What I realize is that the people feel as if they're not getting involved in the solution to the problem. They're just waiting around, not knowing what's going on. Until, as the chef just said, until we get them involved, until we show them the solution have to come from within, no matter what we do, we will not bring about the solution to that situation. As he said, we - the people will feel a sense of entitlement, as if everything is owed(ph) to them, or we're going to bring everything free to them. If you give me every day, I'm going to hope to get something from you every day. If you do not show me how to fish, when you're not around, how am I going to survive? If my economy is not sustainable, doable, how I'm going to survive when you're not around to bring me food? NEAL CONAN, host: Onife, good points. Thank you very much. ONIFE (Caller): You're very welcome. NEAL CONAN, host: Bye-bye. And Chef Jose Andres, thank you for your time today and good luck with your project. Mr. JOSE ANDRES (Chef; Host, "Made in Spain"): Thank you very much. NEAL CONAN, host: And I hope you enjoy your visit. Jose Andres, an award-winning chef, co-owner of several restaurants in the Washington, D.C. area, hosted the PBS cooking program "Made in Spain," was kind enough today to come in to join us here in Studio 3A.

Some aid groups in Haiti continue to provide immediate assistance — food, water and shelter. But many others are focused on long-term goals: rebuilding infrastructure and systems, supporting local farmers and meeting the demand for Haitian medical and mental health professionals. Dr. Joia Mukherjee, chief medical officer, Partners in Health James Gordon, director, The Center for Mind-Body Medicine Jose Andres, James Beard award-winning chef

Einige Hilfsgruppen in Haiti leisten weiterhin Soforthilfe – Nahrung, Wasser und Unterkünfte. Aber viele andere konzentrieren sich auf langfristige Ziele: den Wiederaufbau von Infrastruktur und Systemen, die Unterstützung lokaler Bauern und die Deckung des Bedarfs an haitianischen medizinischen und psychiatrischen Fachkräften. Dr. Joia Mukherjee, der Oberste Gesundheitsbeamte (Chief Medical Officer), Partner im Gesundheitswesen James Gordon, Direktor, Das Zentrum für Geist-Körper-Medizin\nJose Andres, preisgekrönter James Beard-Koch

海地的一些援助团体继续提供紧急援助——食物、水和住所。但其他许多项目都着眼于长期目标：重建基础设施和系统，支持当地农民，满足对海地医疗和心理健康专业人员的需求。乔亚·慕克吉博士，卫生伙伴组织首席医疗官詹姆斯·戈登，身心医学中心主任何塞·安德雷斯，詹姆斯·比尔德获奖厨师

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: There is a strange thing happening in Canada. Research from the country's Native Women's Association estimates that as many as 4,000 native women may have gone missing or been murdered in the last three decades. An earlier study by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police put that figure closer to 1,200. The Canadian government has now begun a formal inquiry into the situation. Carolyn Bennett is the Canadian minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. And she joins us from New York. Thanks for being with us. CAROLYN BENNETT: You're very welcome. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Clearly, this is now something that the government thinks is troubling enough to launch its own investigation. What's the theory? Why do you think this is happening - all of these women going missing or being killed? CAROLYN BENNETT: Well, clearly in Canada the indigenous population, and particularly women, they are way overrepresented in the numbers that are murdered and/or have gone missing. Indigenous women are 4 percent of the population and 24 percent of those that are murdered. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Can you give us a clearer picture of this demographic group? I mean, how well are they assimilated into the mainstream culture? What's their economic status like? What's the relationship to the authorities, to law enforcement? CAROLYN BENNETT: We have three distinct populations in Canada - First Nations, Inuit and Metis. They are increasingly moving to cities. But it is a huge problem in that we've also got more indigenous children in foster care than at the height of our tragedy of residential schools, when they were ripped from their families and put into boarding schools. So we know that assimilation is a bad idea. We know that children do well when there is a secure personal cultural identity - when they can be a proud Inuit young girl. And when that's taken from them and they no longer feel proud of that, they lose their sense of self, sense of control, and that they actually end up very vulnerable and at risk of terrible problems. We also are dealing with terrible problems in poverty and housing and educational attainment. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Do you have any idea whether or not these alleged crimes - these deaths and disappearances - are happening - are being perpetuated by other members of the native population or outside of that population? CAROLYN BENNETT: Well, as you know, Rachel, most women die at the hands of someone they've known. In the indigenous population, it's a little bit less than in the non-indigenous population - a little bit more likely to be somebody that wasn't an intimate partner. But nonetheless, we know we've got to deal with child abuse that leads to addictions that leads to incarceration - is a huge issue both for men and women. We have learned through the hearings coast to coast to coast that there's been a very uneven application of justice in our country and that indigenous people are way overrepresented in the prisons. So we've got a lot of things that we have to deal with. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Some of these cases, I understand, go back 30 years. CAROLYN BENNETT: Oh, indeed, and what we heard in the hearings is so sad because some of the cases were deemed a suicide or deemed an accident. And the investigation just wasn't done properly. And so the indigenous people in Canada felt that there was a completely uneven application of the justice system. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So how is the investigation going to move forward? Will you be looking into cases that have been cold for decades? CAROLYN BENNETT: That's a deliberation. That's certainly what the families want - I think particularly the families who feel that the death of their loved one was deemed a suicide or an accident when they don't think so. There's a particularly tragic case where two young women - Maisy and Shannon - were deemed to be runaways, but their cell phones and their purses were left on the table. And the families know that there's no teenage girl that would leave their cell phone and their purse on the table if they were indeed about to run away. Another one of the deaths and one of the near-deaths were people - young women who were in the child-welfare system in a hotel in downtown Winnipeg with very little supervision. This is has captured the attention of Canadians. They know there's something really wrong going on, and I am honored that our prime minister has decided we have to get on and deal with it. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Carolyn Bennett is Canada's minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. Thanks so much for talking with us about this. CAROLYN BENNETT: You're very welcome.

NPR's Rachel Martin speaks with Canadian Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs Carolyn Bennett about research that indicates as many as 4000 indigenous women have been killed or disappeared.

Rachel Martin von NPR spricht mit der kanadischen Ministerin für indigene und nördliche Angelegenheiten, Carolyn Bennett, über Untersuchungen, die darauf hindeuten, dass bis zu 4000 indigene Frauen getötet wurden oder verschwunden sind.

NPR的雷切尔·马丁与加拿大土著和北方事务部长卡罗琳·贝内特就一项研究进行了交谈，该研究表明，多达4000名土著妇女被杀害或失踪。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: We're going to start the program today in Venezuela. Just when everybody thought the crisis there couldn't get any worse, it has. The country is in the grip of the biggest power outage anybody can remember, and the struggle over the presidency is intensifying. President Nicolas Maduro sent thousands of police and troops onto the streets of the capital as his opponent, Juan Guaido, held more mass demonstrations. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: This was the reaction of the crowd when Guaido arrived. As you can hear, that's a peaceful crowd. But there were some scuffles with police who fired tear gas. We're joined now by our correspondent, Philip Reeves, who spent most of the day on the streets of Caracas. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Philip, thanks so much for joining us. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: You're welcome. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Tell us what you saw. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: Well, you know, there've been times, Michel, when you go around Caracas, you can sometimes think this city's almost normal. Not anymore. The city's in the grips of this huge power outage. It's causing traffic snarls. The subway's closed. There are long lines at gas stations because the electric pumps don't work in a lot of them because of the power outage. Shops, businesses closed, and people are having terrible trouble with Internet connections. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: The cellphone network isn't working properly, and so people are stopping whenever they find a sort of sweet spot where it actually - they can get an actual connection to the cellphone network. They stop, and that means stopping their cars on freeways sometimes and also driving to five-star hotels and positioning themselves outside of those because they know that they've got boosters and locking into those to try to get messages out to their families and to find out what's going on in this country. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: How do you think it's playing into the politics there? I mean, things have been desperate there for a while. I mean, you've been telling us about that. But is there any sense of how this is cutting? Is it making people even more angry with Maduro? PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: So when you go out in the streets, you can see people in red hats and red T-shirts who are supporters of Maduro going to a rally that he's been holding. And at the same time, many people - many more people, actually - walking through the streets to gathering points and then on to a huge demonstration area where Juan Guaido has met his supporters. And in the midst of all this, Army, National Guard and police, some of them blocking roads with riot shields. Thousands of them are out today. And that's a different thing. This is something we haven't seen to the same degree. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Do you have any sense of Guaido's support? Is there any sense of what direction his support is taking? Is it growing? Is it waning? Are people - I mean, people must be just exhausted there. But do you have any sense of where the opposition is going? PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: Well, they're still turning out in the streets in very large numbers. I mean, despite the fact that the metro didn't work and despite the police and soldiers, thousands and thousands of them were out today. But you talk to them, and you will find that they are frustrated. It's more than six weeks. They feel they need to come up with some new ideas, new approaches. They're getting worried because Maduro is still there. They blame clearly Maduro for the latest crisis. But Maduro is trying to use the crisis, the power crisis, to turn it against the opposition, saying that he's being sabotaged by the opposition and by the United States. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That is NPR correspondent Philip Reeves joining us from Caracas. Philip, thanks so much for talking to us. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: You're welcome.

Six weeks into Venezuela's political crisis, life is getting more difficult. Food and medicine are harder to find and a day-long power outage left doctors operating by cellphone light.

Sechs Wochen nach der politischen Krise Venezuelas wird das Leben schwieriger. Lebensmittel und Medikamente sind schwerer zu finden und ein tagelanger Stromausfall lässt die Ärzte mit Handylicht arbeiten.

委内瑞拉的政治危机已经过去六周了，生活越来越艰难。食品和药品更难找到，停电一天让医生只能靠手机灯光来操作。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: Here's a business that's booming in this recession: tattoo removal. We read about a tattoo removal clinic called Dr. Tattoff - yes, that's really the name - in today's L.A. Times. The story said there are three Dr. Tattoff locations around L.A. and it's looking to expand, maybe go public. Dr. Will Kirby is a dermatologist and co-founder of Dr. Tattoff. He's also somewhat of a reality TV star. He was on the show "Big Brother." He joins us now. Hi. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Hey, how are you? MADELEINE BRAND, host: So tell us a little bit about your business and why it's booming right now? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Absolutely. First of all, let me congratulate you on your annunciation. I love it. Dr. Tattoff, you're so appropriate. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): It's, you know, obviously the name is what we do. We remove tattoos. Tattoo removal is a huge industry. It's a booming industry. And people are really sparking to what we do. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Well, it's kind of surprising because it's expensive to remove a tattoo, right? It costs more than a thousand dollars. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Well, no, not necessarily. Everything's relative. So, it really does depends on the size of the of the tattoo. We'll treat a single dot and that is really, really affordable, obviously. Or we'll treat an entire back. And obviously becomes more expensive. MADELEINE BRAND, host: So, why is it do you think that your business is booming? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Oh, a couple of different reasons. I think a lot of people want to say that the economy is bad, people are looking for jobs. And you don't want to have a tattoo and have that be a barrier for entry into the workforce. But I don't know how true that necessarily is. I think as people age, they want to remove their tattoos. They want to remove some of the memories they have from the past. And I think also just my reputation as a physician, who specializes in this, is growing as well. So, I think a lot of different factors come into play. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And what is the strangest tattoo that you've had to remove? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Well, I can tell you some of the most bizarre but I'm afraid you guys will throw me out on the street. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): We treat tattoos in very private areas of the body, on the genitalia. We see it occasionally. I'll see tattoos on the inside of the lip. And I'll even see tattoos on the eyelids, so that when you close your eyes it looks it looks as if your eyes are still open. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Really? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Absolutely. So this is what I tell people: the strangest, most deranged tattoo that you can think of, we've seen it. MADELEINE BRAND, host: All right. And who comes in to your offices? Because I would imagine be lot of maybe ex-gang members… Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): That's what you would - I mean that the incorrect perception is that it's ex-gang members and bikers and that's simply not the case. Our average patient is between the ages of 18 and 34, female and makes more than $50,000 a year. So we keep really, really specific records. We try to target our information to our consumer. And like I said, if you go to the lobby of my office, it's mostly female. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Hmm. And what tattoos are they removing? What are the tattoos that have gone out fashion? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Well, there's a lot of different trends. We see - you know, Pamela Anderson did a movie probably about 12 years ago called "Barb Wire." MADELEINE BRAND, host: Mm-hmm. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): And she got a barbed wire tattoo around her arm. And we see a lot of women who come in with a barbed wire tattoo. We see a lot of Disney characters, see a lot of Mickey Mouse, see a lot of different cartoons characters. Just -there are certain trends within the tattoo community that have fallen out of favor. So… MADELEINE BRAND, host: What about that lower back tattoo that was big a while ago? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Yeah, that has the - that has an unflattering name - called the tramp stamp. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): I didn't make it up, so don't hold me to that. But that is falling out of favor and I think, you know, as women age, they are starting to not really be pleased with that. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Not so great. But people are still getting tattoos, right… Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Absolutely. MADELEINE BRAND, host: …I don't think that's fallen off. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Apparently, there are 20,000 tattoo shops in the United States. So that's a pretty impressive number if you think how many people are putting on tattoos on a daily basis. And I challenge you to walk outside today, go to a beach watch, you know, a sporting event. Every single person I know has a tattoo in one way, shape or form. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Do you? Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): I don't but if I did, I would get one in black because that's the easiest color to remove. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Okay. Dr. Will Kirby, he's a dermatologist and co-founder of Dr. Tattoff - I said that right. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): That's beautiful. I love it. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Dr. Tattoff, it is tattoo removal company. Thanks. Dr. WILL KIRBY (Co-founder, Dr. Tattoff Clinic): Oh, thank you.

The Tattoo-removal business appears to be booming. The Los Angeles area's Dr. Tatoff's tattoo-removal chain is looking to expand and perhaps go public. Dr. Will Kirby, a dermatologist and co-founder of Dr. Tattoff, offers his insight.

Das Geschäft mit Tattooentfernungen scheint zu boomen. Die Tattoo-Entfernungskette Dr. Tatoff aus der Gegend von Los Angeles will expandieren und vielleicht an die Börse gehen. Dr. Will Kirby, Dermatologe und Mitbegründer von Dr. Tattoff, bietet seinen Einblick.

纹身去除业务似乎正在蓬勃发展。洛杉矶地区的塔托夫医生的纹身去除连锁店正在寻求扩大规模，也许会上市。皮肤科医生、塔托夫医生的联合创始人威尔·柯比医生提出了他的见解。

SCOTT SIMON, Host: Anne Mostue visited on one of the final days of this way of life in coastal Maine. ANNE MOSTUE: Myrtress Harrington was used to it. SCOTT SIMON, Host: (unintelligible) and I've always been a fish packer. ANNE MOSTUE: Harrington is 77 years old, and first started canning sardines at Stinson Seafood when she was 18. SCOTT SIMON, Host: I started in '50, but I didn't stay all them years straight steady. I had children in between. ANNE MOSTUE: Harrington wore a hairnet, apron and gloves as she worked on the assembly line, packing the fish into tiny, rectangular cans. Sardines are an oily fish, about four inches long. And before they're processed and canned, they're called herring. SCOTT SIMON, Host: Well, I think you have to have a little coordination getting the fish in the cans right. And see, I've worked on cooked fish. And this is raw fish now. Today, I'm putting steaks in the can, little fish steaks. The girl that's packing with me, she does one can and she skips a can, and I do that can. That's the way we do the fish. ANNE MOSTUE: Bumblebee Foods, which owns the cannery, attributes the closing to federal regulations that have reduced the catch limits on Atlantic herring. Al West was a fish buyer for the cannery. He says the herring catch limits are half of what they were six years ago, and the company could no longer produce enough sardines to keep the plant up and running. SCOTT SIMON, Host: We've been very successful, and we've weathered a lot of storms. But the reduced quota was one that we had no control over. ANNE MOSTUE: Myrtress Harrington was most concerned about the younger workers. SCOTT SIMON, Host: Well, I think we'll all manage. It's going to be harder on the younger people, I think. At my age, I think I can get by. See, I have my Social Security. No, I don't know - I think it's going to be hard but hopefully, they'll have something come in soon. ANNE MOSTUE: For NPR News, I'm Anne Mostue.

The nation's last sardine cannery closed on Friday. In the 1950s, Maine had more than 50 plants canning the tiny fish. Owner Bumblebee Foods attributes the cannery's closing to federal regulations that have reduced catch limits. Nearly 130 workers are expected to lose their jobs.

Die letzte Sardinenfabrik der Nation hat am Freitag geschlossen. In den 1950er Jahren gab es in Maine mehr als 50 Fabriken, in denen die winzigen Fische eingemacht wurden. Besitzer Bumblebee Foods führt die Schließung der Konservenfabrik auf Bundesvorschriften zurück, die die Fanggrenzen reduziert haben. Fast 130 Arbeiter werden voraussichtlich ihren Arbeitsplatz verlieren.

该国最后一家沙丁鱼罐头工厂于周五关闭。在20世纪50年代，缅因州有50多个装小鱼罐头的工厂。大黄蜂食品公司老板将罐头厂的倒闭归咎于联邦法规降低了捕获限额。预计将有近130名工人失去工作。

NEAL CONAN, host: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. NEAL CONAN, host: Tomorrow night, President Obama outlines his strategy for Afghanistan in a nationally broadcast address from the United States Military Academy at West Point. He's already briefed key Cabinet officers and his top military commanders. He's on the phone today and tomorrow with the president of France, the British prime minister, the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan and other key allies. He sent national security advisor James Jones to Pakistan with a pledge of support and cooperation and reportedly a blunt warning that support of several specified organizations by Pakistan's intelligence and military will not be tolerated. NEAL CONAN, host: Members of Congress will be listening closely, of course, and he will be speaking to the young men and women who can expect to serve in this conflict as junior officers in the next few years. NEAL CONAN, host: But the key audience is an increasingly skeptical American public. Opinion surveys consistently report increased doubts about the cost and purpose of the conflict many now believe cannot be won, and our partners in an Afghan government widely regarded as corrupt, illegitimate and incompetent. NEAL CONAN, host: Senior news analyst Ted Koppel joins us in just a moment. So what do you want to hear the president say tomorrow night? Give us a call, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our Web site. That's at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, host: Later in the program, Tiger Woods' car crash is on The Opinion Page this week. Is this a private matter? NEAL CONAN, host: But first, Afghanistan. Ted Koppel joins us from his home in Maryland. Nice to have you back with us, Ted. TED KOPPEL: Thank you, Neal, always a pleasure. NEAL CONAN, host: And what do you want to hear from President Obama tomorrow night? TED KOPPEL: I want to hear why it is so essential that we: A, be in Afghanistan; and B, worry so much about Pakistan. I think the first thing that any president needs to do is to establish, for the American public, the reasons why a war is essential. I don't think President Obama has done that; I don't think President Bush did that before him. NEAL CONAN, host: It is something that he has described earlier as a war of necessity, not a war of choice. As mentioned, he's expected to send more troops and invest more money in this conflict, and that's going to be a difficult sell to his own party. TED KOPPEL: I think it's going to be a difficult sell but only because, for reasons that you and I are going to get into, I'm sure, it is all but impossible for any American president to really spell out why things are so dangerous in that part of the world for U.S. interests. And in a nutshell, the reason is that Pakistan has somewhere between 60 and 100 nuclear weapons, and the great fear -the existential nightmare, as people in the Bush administration used to refer to it - is that some terrorist group, some Islamic fundamentalist terrorist group, will get a hold of one or more of those nuclear weapons or possibly even control of the Pakistani government with all of those weapons at its disposal. And the consequences of that are all but unthinkable. NEAL CONAN, host: And that because the Pashtuns, the ethnic group that lives on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistan border, well, they form the majority of the Taliban. TED KOPPEL: And, you know, you have a situation here, where if you look at a map, and you and I have talked about this before, Neal, in the past. Sometimes it's problematic on a radio program that we can't just lay out a big map there and show people. Afghanistan lies right between Iran and Pakistan: Iran on one border, Pakistan on the other border. Iran is now controlled by Shiite Muslims. Pakistan - I mean, Pakistan is largely a Sunni Muslim country, and the danger of these two nations, each of the -one already armed with nuclear weapons and the other on the verge of being armed with nuclear weapons - is a pretty frightening prospects. NEAL CONAN, host: You misspoke. You said - Iran is, of course, dominated by Shiite Muslims. TED KOPPEL: Shiite Muslim. What did I say, Sunni? I'm sorry. NEAL CONAN, host: You went the other way. But in any case, why can't the president tell the truth? Why can't he say look, we're really worried about this, and the blowback from Afghanistan would have serious consequences for our allies, such as they are, in Pakistan. They may not be the greatest people in the world, but we've got to keep them in power, much better them than the alternative. TED KOPPEL: The latest public opinion polls in Pakistan show that 68 percent of the Pakistani people already have a negative view of the United States. The great fear that the Pakistani people, but the even greater fear that the Pakistani military has, is that the United States, in its own national interest, might at some point step in and try to seize control of those nuclear weapons. TED KOPPEL: That's why every Pakistani government has been extremely coy about handing over real information to the U.S. government and to U.S. intelligence about how those nuclear weapons are, in fact, controlled and safeguarded. Their great fear is that the United States is going to try and seize those weapons, which would leave them with their existential nightmare, and that is completely exposed to what they regard as their biggest enemy, India, also a nuclear power. NEAL CONAN, host: And of course, the United States was hosting the Indian prime minister at a state dinner at the White House last week. TED KOPPEL: That probably didn't help the mood in Pakistan, either. NEAL CONAN, host: So in terms of exit strategy, that's another thing that's going to be problematical for the president. How do you declare that we are here to win this fight, and we will stay until we leave, and I'm going to give you the date? TED KOPPEL: Well, I must tell you, I think that's where this president, like the one before him, is trapped between the domestic political needs that he has, and the domestic political need is that you give the American public the impression that there is an end to this, that there is light at the end of that long tunnel, and the real strategic need, which may be that the United States remain in Afghanistan, certainly in that part of the world, for possibly one, two or more generations. TED KOPPEL: We're talking about a danger that will continue to exist not just three years down the road, not just 10 years down the road, but 20, 30, 40 years down the road. NEAL CONAN, host: And are you talking in numbers that would allow the opponents in Afghanistan to claim that this is an occupation, tens of thousands of - 68,000 there now and apparently 35,000 or so more going? TED KOPPEL: I'm not sure, Neal, that when I talk about the need for a generational U.S. presence in that part of the world, that it has to be in those numbers. It could be a significantly smaller number, just as you and I have talked about this, too, about in Iraq, it's been my contention all along that we'll still have 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 troops in Iraq three to five years from now. TED KOPPEL: We don't talk about that very much. All we hear is that all U.S. combat forces will be out of Iraq by - what, is it supposed to be next summer now? I lose track. NEAL CONAN, host: Next summer now, yes. TED KOPPEL: Next summer. You know, you'll have the same kind of thing happening in Afghanistan, that the large numbers, the over-100,000 troops that will likely be there after the president sends this next increase out there - and parenthetically, that's going to take many, many months before they're all there - you know, I don't see us having 100,000 troops in Afghanistan five years from now, but I do see us having several tens of thousands of troops in Afghanistan possibly 10, 15, 20 years from now. NEAL CONAN, host: What do you want to hear from the president tomorrow night? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. We'll start with Gina(ph), Gina with us from Minneapolis. NEAL CONAN, host: GINA (Caller) Yes, can you hear me? NEAL CONAN, host: Yes, you're on the air, go ahead please. GINA: Yes. I'm calling because my husband is currently deployed to Afghanistan on his second tour, and I also have served in the U.S. Army on active duty. And I realize it's not realistic, tomorrow night, to have the president say that we're going to leave anytime soon, but I would like to have a clear, defined exit strategy because this is certainly something that we will be involved with for a long time, and we need to have a clear, defined strategy. NEAL CONAN, host: Would something like we'll leave when the government of Afghanistan is stable and secure and has forces enough of its own to carry on the conflict by itself? GINA: No, I think that's going to be way too long. I mean, I don't think that region of the world wants us there, and I think it continues to fuel al-Qaida's fire. NEAL CONAN, host: Let me ask you, also, about the locale, Gina. He's going to be speaking to an audience of young men and women who can expect to be there as junior officers in the not-very-distant future. GINA: Right, I think - I mean, he's probably talking to an audience that is going to support his efforts. I mean, while - I was an officer, as well, and you know, you're young and idealistic, and you're ready to join the fight. So I think he's going to encounter a friendly audience. NEAL CONAN, host: Do you think those young men and women are being properly trained to engage in this fight, that they're confident about the future there? GINA: I think our training with the military is excellent. We have the best training in the world, but I think, you know, we need to have more linguists and more capabilities outside of that region of the world to fight the fight, not necessarily do we have to fight it in Afghanistan. NEAL CONAN, host: Gina, we wish your husband very well and hope everything goes well for him. When is he due back? GINA: He's due back next September. NEAL CONAN, host: Next September. GINA: Right. NEAL CONAN, host: That's a long wait. People can begin to understand - and this is his second tour. GINA: It is, but we're not alone. There's a lot of people that are in our boat, deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. NEAL CONAN, host: And as long as he's in the Army, he could, after a year back home, go back. GINA: Absolutely, yeah. NEAL CONAN, host: Yeah, all right. Well, good luck again. GINA: Thank you very much for your time. NEAL CONAN, host: Bye, Gina, bye-bye, and that's a military family saying we want to hear an exit strategy. We want to hear: When is this going to be over? TED KOPPEL: You know, your heart aches when you hear Gina, and you think about her husband, and I have a friend who has now just completed his fourth tour in Afghanistan, and you just want to be able to say, from a human point of view, let it be over soon. TED KOPPEL: But that's why I say the issue that has to be determined is - all right, we are there, why are we there? Why are U.S. interests threatened? What is it about what's going on, not only in Afghanistan but also in Pakistan, that threatens the very survival of the United States? And if the survival of the United States is threatened by the takeover of the Pakistani government and their 60-to-100 nuclear weapons, by Islamic fundamentalists - if that is the danger, if that is the reason that we're over there - then how can you be talking about an exit strategy until that danger has been, in some fashion or another, ameliorated or removed? NEAL CONAN, host: We'll be talking about how the president can possibly sell that message without quite delivering it that explicitly in just a moment. Stay with us, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. What do you want to hear from President Obama when he speaks to the nation tomorrow night on Afghanistan? I'm Neal Conan. Ted Koppel will be back. Stay with us. I'm Neal Conan. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, host: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. President Obama issued orders, yesterday, to send more U.S. troops to Afghanistan. The White House would not say how many or what they may do. NEAL CONAN, host: We expect details on that tomorrow, when the president tries to sell his new strategy to the American people. NPR will bring you that address live from West Point tomorrow night. NEAL CONAN, host: So what do you want to hear the president say? Our phone number, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. And you can join the conversation on our Web site. That's at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, host: NPR senior news analyst Ted Koppel is with us, and let's see if we can get another caller on the line. Let's go to Perry, Perry with us from Rockingham in North Carolina. PERRY (Caller): Good afternoon. How are you? NEAL CONAN, host: I'm well, thanks. PERRY (Caller): I'm having a hard time hearing you, but I was in Iran when the shah was overthrown in 1979. I was teaching Iranian military students to fly helicopters, and so I had quite an interest in the Middle East (unintelligible). And I actually, Neal, when you were in (unintelligible) the Hubble Space Telescope show, I asked you about Norman Schwarzkopf - if you remember. NEAL CONAN, host: Yes, you did. PERRY (Caller): But Norman Schwarzkopf's father was the one who led the CIA into Iran to overthrow the government of Mohammed Mosaddeq in 1953. He was a West Point graduate. But having learned that about the Middle East, whenever this current war started, I knew that some things the government was saying were absolutely false. I did not know how much. But I became very active in the anti-war movement after that because I'm a 29-year military vet. My life is chronicled in a documentary shown - Bill Moyers; November sixth, called �The Good Soldier.� I won't go into that, but it gives you kind of my background. NEAL CONAN, host: Okay. PERRY (Caller): We can stay in the Middle East as long as we like, but we will not decide the battle between the Shiites and the Sunnis over who will control Islam, and it's just futile. I worked very hard� NEAL CONAN, host: Perry, all of this is interesting, but what do you want to hear from the president tomorrow night? PERRY (Caller): I want to hear the president say look, I will send only the troops necessary to protect the troops that are already there and then to get out as quickly as possible from that area. NEAL CONAN, host: So only force protection and then withdraw as quickly as possible? PERRY (Caller): That's exactly right. Politically, we have no end in sight. NEAL CONAN, host: And what do you do about the prospect - two prospects - one of which is that the Taliban would then reestablish bases in areas for Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida to resume their conduct and start all over again the plotting that began with September 11? PERRY (Caller): I would only remind you that, in Iran, when Schwarzkopf came in and overthrew the government and put a 21-year-old man in charge, called him the king of kings, and then Schwarzkopf stayed and set up SAVAK, the secret police. For the next 25 years, through force, we maintained some semblance of an independent government, or at least one that had some kind of authority we could respect. But when we left, the instant we left, and I was there when the shah was overthrown, my next-door neighbor said we're so glad to finally get rid of some American puppet government. And that is exactly the attitude I'm going to have, no longer - no matter how long we stay. NEAL CONAN, host: All right, Perry, thanks very much, appreciate it. And his point about the puppet government, Ted Koppel, there is little support in this country for the government of Hamid Karzai, who appears, by just about any measure you can see, of having stolen the last election. TED KOPPEL: Yeah, and running a corrupt government. but he did say something. Hamid Karzai, and I was thinking as I was listening to Perry talking about the shah and our support for the shah - Hamid Karzai said something that was very truthful the other day. He said, in effect, hey guys, you Americans are not here for my sake. You're not even here for our sake. TED KOPPEL: I'm transliterating now what he said. You're not here for the sake of Afghanistan. You're here to protect your own interests. So this notion of we're going to leave if you, Hamid Karzai, don't do exactly what we tell you, is nonsense. You won't leave as long as your interests are threatened. Once your interests have been met, nothing that does me any good is going to keep you here anyway. NEAL CONAN, host: Let's see if we can Jay(ph) on the line, Jay with us from Durham, North Carolina. JAY (Caller): Yeah, thanks for taking my call. NEAL CONAN, host: Sure. JAY (Caller): I want to hear him say that we're there to save U.S. credibility. I think that's important after the last eight years, and I don't think the WMD argument is going to fly at all, given the Bush doctrine of Iraq. And that they need to train the politicians, take them out of the country if they have to, and show them how a civil society can operate without corruption. NEAL CONAN, host: And so how long do you think that will take, do you think? JAY (Caller): Well, it may take several years, but it's worth the sacrifice. I mean, our credibility - this is our last chance to get it right, I think and our - the U.S.'s credibility is at the lowest point it has been in an awful long time and as long as - you know, as long as I can remember, and that's what we're fighting for at this point, and that is in our best interest. TED KOPPEL: Neal, may I jump in just for a moment? Is it your impression that when we're talking about nuclear weapons in Pakistan that maybe the Pakistanis don't have them? JAY (Caller): No, I believe that they have them, but I believe that they're protected and that we've been working - since we re-engaged with Pakistan, I think our military understands their military and that they have that agreement, that they won't be susceptible. I don't think they're as susceptible as you'd make them seem to be, and I think that argument just doesn't work anymore because it's been ruined. TED KOPPEL: Well, but you know, if I may, I just think it's a totally different argument. The argument with Saddam Hussein was that he had weapons of mass destruction, and it turned out he didn't. Here the argument is there's no question but that the Pakistanis have them. The only issue is: Is there any danger of those weapons falling into the hands of Islamic fundamentalists? And if you look at what's going on in Pakistan these days, where some of these Taliban groups and al-Qaida-related groups have taken over military posts for a couple of days, you've got to concede that there is some danger to the current government. TED KOPPEL: In fact, the civilian government in there right now may very well fall within the next few weeks. JAY (Caller): Yeah, you probably know the situation better than I. But as far as I've heard on other programs that, you know, there is close ties with the military there. And when the military decides that it wants to do something in Pakistan, it seems to succeed. It hasn't had an interest in the past in stopping the Taliban, but now it does, so� TED KOPPEL: Well, actually, they're the ones - I mean, you're right. We do have close relations with the military, but you know, just in the interest of historical accuracy, it was the ISI, which is the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency, that's the intelligence agency for all the Pakistani military, they're the ones who set up the Taliban. They're the ones who created al-Qaida. They're the ones who armed, among others, Osama bin Laden. And they did it back in a day when we wanted them to do it, but now it's sort of spiraled - you know, that's when we wanted to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan. But now it's kind of spiraled out of control, and they may be, you know, the Frankenstein's monster here is that the Taliban and al-Qaida are now, not only in Afghanistan but also in Pakistan, powerful enough that they represent a real threat. JAY (Caller): Right, and I� NEAL CONAN, host: Jay, I just want to give somebody else a chance, okay? JAY (Caller): Email from Liz in Boulder, Colorado. I'd like President Obama to explain how we will fund a continued war effort in Afghanistan and how much it is estimated to cost. And the numbers you see thrown around are something around the order of $75 billion. TED KOPPEL: Yeah, I mean, the really startling number, because it's smaller and easier to comprehend, is that for each soldier that we have over there, it costs $1 million per year. We're probably going to end up funding it the way we've been funding it all along, which is that we're borrowing money from the Chinese. TED KOPPEL: The Chinese have lent us over a trillion dollars, and certainly a lot of that money has gone into funding the military both in Iraq and in Afghanistan. NEAL CONAN, host: There's also the question, some in Congress - liberal Democrats, as a matter of fact - are saying we need a war tax if we're going to - if this is so important, and we're going to be there for a while, we need funds to pay for this. TED KOPPEL: Yeah, it's interesting because David Obey is one of those Democrats who has been calling for a war tax, and obviously, the concern of liberal Democrats is that if you don't raise additional taxes for the war, then some of the fund of money that is there right now is going to be taken away from the some of the social programs that liberal Democrats want to see funded. TED KOPPEL: I see both an irony there and in the fact that the conservative Republicans, who normally are so fixated on the notion of individual families not living beyond their means seem to have no trouble whatsoever with the U.S. government living beyond its means and fighting two wars without funding them with any additional taxes. NEAL CONAN, host: Let's go to Blass(ph), Blass with us from Miami. Hello? Hello, are you there? Okay, I guess Blass has left us. Let's go instead to John(ph), John with us from Mountain View in California. And John, can you hear me? JOHN (Caller): Hello? NEAL CONAN, host: Yes, John, you're on the air. Go ahead, please. JOHN (Caller): Thank you. I have a question for Ted Koppel that has to do with media interest. And what I'd like to hear the president give us a more balanced view of what's going on in the world. If it's important for us to have five, ten thousands of troops in Okinawa and Korea and Japan - and those were in our strategic interest, why is it not also in our strategic interest to have tens of thousands of troops in Afghanistan for a long-time commitment? TED KOPPEL: Well, it may well be in our strategic interest to do it. The problem is, we're running out of troops because we now have a volunteer, you know, a volunteer army and a very fine volunteer military. But the fact of the matter is, we simply don't have enough troops to keep all of those commitments that you referred to, and the new ones in Iraq and Afghanistan, going. JOHN (Caller): Well, I understand the Japanese want us to get those troops out of Okinawa. Why don't we pull some of those troops over? TED KOPPEL: Well, they have wanted us to get them out. You know, we have maintained a presence and maintained a nuclear umbrella over Japan for many, many years now, since the Second World War because the great concern 50, 60 years ago, as you may recall, was that Japan not rearm and that Japan not become a nuclear power. So there have been good reasons for keeping those troops in that region. NEAL CONAN, host: Right. Jake - John, thanks very much. Email from Rain(ph) - I hope I got that right. This, she writes, I want President Obama to say we will be out of Afghanistan within a year no matter what. We are throwing money into a sinkhole that would be better used at home. I want the U.S. to try - to stop trying to fix the world. And again, according to the opinion polls, this is an opinion that is widely held in this country. TED KOPPEL: And it may in fact turn out to be absolutely the correct opinion. I just want to be sure that when we make that decision to pull those troops out of that region, if that's what we do, that we recognize the danger inherent in doing that. It may be that by pulling out of there, the threat of some kind of nuclear terrorism against the United States is diminished. On the other hand, it may not be. And I wouldn't want to be the one that have to make that decision right now. TED KOPPEL: I mean, the president is truly facing a Hobson's choice. He's going to make someone unhappy no matter what he does. But in the final analysis, his job is to operate in the national interest of the United States. That's why I say, please, please, please, tell us what that national interest is. Tell us how that national interest is served by sending more troops. And then the American public is going to have to come around. And if it's a compelling argument, we'll have to bite down hard and live with it and maybe raise more taxes, maybe - you know, I really do have an objection to a tiny fraction of the American public bearing the entire burden of fighting the wars. If it's in the national interest of the United States to fight the war, then we should all have to bear part of the burden. NEAL CONAN, host: We're talking with senior news analyst Ted Koppel about the president's speech tomorrow night in West Point. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, host: And here's an email from Sandy(ph). I would like to know why this is not a United Nations world issue with a collective effort to resolve the potential dangers. Also, what if all this money and incredible ingenuity went toward more peaceful ways to resolve these issues? There are, at the moment, 68,000 U.S. forces in Afghanistan. I think the total number of foreign forces is something like 116,000, so there are thousands of NATO and other troops there. NEAL CONAN, host: The president is gonna be asking for more, and I think he got a commitment of 500 more from Britain, but that's - he's asking for 5,000 more overall, I think. TED KOPPEL: Yeah. Well, I think he's getting a few thousand more from several NATO countries, but not nearly as many as he wanted. You know, the great danger whenever you go to the United Nations is you face the Security Council, and sitting in the Security Council is Russia and China. And if they're not willing to go along with what we perceive to be not only in our national interest but in a global interest and global peace, if we're not able to make a compelling argument that this is also in their national interest, we're not going to get anywhere in the U.N. NEAL CONAN, host: Let's go to Ted(ph). Ted with us from Muskegon in Michigan. TED (Caller): Hi, I want the president to tell us what the trade-offs are on our policies, what the threat is that we're actually facing and how much will it cost us in lives and treasure to deal with that? Is the military the only resource? Can we do this covertly much more effectively and much more inexpensively? What are the alternatives? How sure are we of the perceived threat? TED (Caller): We were sure of the domino theory in Vietnam. It didn't materialize. So we really need to look at the trade-offs, how certain we are of the facts, what we know and what we speculate, and what these things are going to cost us. And then say to the American people, are you really prepared to spend that money and risk those lives? And if you are, back it up with whatever you need to do, a tax, a draft, whatever. That's what I hear from the president tomorrow night. NEAL CONAN, host: Do you think that those alternatives were among the things he may have discussed with his advisers in those long set of meetings over the past few months in White House? TED (Caller): I'm sure they are, now explain them to the American people. And I'm glad he took a lot - long time. I would much rather see him take a long time to consider it, which - and I don't think the situation has changed that much in the time he's been thinking about it. I'm glad the president is thinking about these things. I'm glad that we have this president, because I think he is considering those things. Now, tell us what - tell us what the issues were and why you concluded what you've concluded. NEAL CONAN, host: Mm-hmm. TED (Caller): That's what I want to hear from the president tomorrow. NEAL CONAN, host: That - Ted, I think you have a chance of hearing at least some of that tomorrow night, though again, all those calculations may not be involved in what the president lays out tomorrow night - particularly the covert approach. But nevertheless, Ted Koppel, I think there's going to be a renewed emphasis on training of Afghan troops. I think that's going to be part of it. And also, the civilian side is going to be talked about quite a bit as well. TED KOPPEL: It is, and you know, obviously the short or sort of middle range hope is that there is some way of bringing stability into Afghanistan. But again, as long as all we're talking about is Afghanistan, I think we are ignoring the elephant in the room. The elephant in the room is 60 to 100 nuclear warheads in Pakistan, and the danger of - I mean, we literally, it's time to start reading your - whether you read it on the Web or whether you read it in the newspapers, it's time to start looking at those stories, many of which are buried on A12, about the danger of Pakistan's civilian government collapsing. Once again, we have a Pakistani president who is on the verge of ending up in the slammer. He's been there before. He may be there again. NEAL CONAN, host: A long interesting article on Pakistan's troubles in the Economist this week. Ted, thank you very much for the call. TED (Caller): Gentlemen, great show. Thank you. NEAL CONAN, host: Appreciate it. And Ted Koppel, as always, thanks to you. TED KOPPEL: Thank you vey much, Neal.

President Obama delivers his much anticipated address on Afghanistan Tuesday night. NPR senior news analyst Ted Koppel joins Neal Conan for a discussion of what we expect to hear from Obama, and how he'll try to bring the country, Congress and U.S. allies on board.

Präsident Obama hält am Dienstagabend seine mit Spannung erwartete Ansprache zu Afghanistan. Ted Koppel, leitender Nachrichtenanalyst von NPR, trifft sich mit Neal Conan zu einer Diskussion darüber, was wir von Obama zu hören erwarten und wie er versuchen wird, das Land, den Kongress und die US-Verbündeten ins Boot zu holen.

周二晚，奥巴马总统发表了他备受期待的阿富汗问题讲话。美国国家公共电台的资深新闻分析师泰德·科佩尔与尼尔·柯南共同探讨了我们期待从奥巴马那里听到的内容，以及他将如何努力让美国、国会和美国盟友都参与进来。

ROBERT SIEGEL, host: The White House says a deadly attack on a UN guest house in Kabul, Afghanistan, was intended to disrupt the upcoming runoff election there. The Taliban is claiming responsibility for this attack. Shortly before dawn, men wearing suicide vests and police uniforms stormed the compound. Eleven people were killed, including three attackers. Many of those targeted are helping in preparations for the election on November 7th. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: NPR's Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson is in Kabul and joins us on the line right now. And Soraya first of all, tell us more about today's attack. SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON: Well, it began at about 6 A.M. this morning and you had three, or at least three gunmen, who were carrying explosives and they were wearing police uniforms. They approached this guest house in a part of Kabul that is normally pretty safe. Basically, because they were wearing the police uniforms, they throw the guards off-guard and they're able to storm the compound and a very fierce battle ensued. And as a result, you ended up with five UN workers who were killed and - as well as two Afghan security guards and a civilian. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: Now, what do we know about the victims of this attack? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON: Well, the UN workers included at least one American, or I should say, there was at least one American among the people who were killed and the - this compound had a lot of UN workers, who were tasked to help with the election inside. And so, it was very clear that the target was the UN people who were involved with the elections. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: Well, does this represent a real threat to the elections? That wherever there might be people working with the UN and trying to run the election, there could be attacks like this? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON: Well, certainly it's going to make people look a lot more closely at how they act or interact with the election process. I mean, today, for example in Kabul, no foreigners came outside. Everybody was - basically ordered to stay indoors. And the UN - well, it's going to have to review its procedures to see whether or not they'll be able go out into the communities. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: Of course, another question is whether violence of this sort would continue to discourage Afghans from taking part in voting in the election on the 7th. SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON: That certainly is going to be a deterrent. I mean, the Taliban has made it very clear. They were, of course, responsible for this attack today and claimed responsibility for it. They've made it clear they are going to disrupt this election process and that today was only the start. The problem that, of course, is also out there is how much are the election workers, how much are they going to be able to prevent fraud from happening if they can't actually go out and see what's going on. This task has fallen to the Western observers, and the Western commissions. And again, because of today's attack, everyone is going to have to review their security procedures to see whether or not they can actually be outside and be part of this election process. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: Soraya, is it common in attacks of this kind for the attackers to have police uniforms and to at least be convincing for some period of time as they're carrying out the attack? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON: Well, it certainly has happened before and it always raises the question: How do they get these things? Apparently to some degree, not only are weapons available in bazaars or, you know, sort of the under the table, but these uniforms are also sold for people to make a profit. And so - and it's very disconcerting because you have an Afghan approaching, he's carrying weapons, but he's wearing a uniform and so your initial reaction is not that this is someone who's going to cause harm. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: Thank you, Soraya. SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON: You're welcome. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: That's NPR's Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson speaking to us from Kabul.

Taliban militants stormed an international guest house in Kabul on Wednesday, killing at least 12 people, including half a dozen U.N. staffers. The Taliban said it was part of an offensive related to the Nov. 7 runoff vote for the presidency. The militants have repeatedly vowed to disrupt the poll.

Taliban-Kämpfer stürmten am Mittwoch ein internationales Gästehaus in Kabul und töteten dabei mindestens zwölf Menschen, darunter ein halbes Dutzend UN-Mitarbeiter. Die Taliban sagten, es sei Teil einer Offensive im Zusammenhang mit der Stichwahl am 7. November um die Präsidentschaft. Die Militanten haben wiederholt geschworen, die Wahl zu stören.

塔利班武装分子星期三袭击了喀布尔一家国际宾馆，造成至少12人死亡，其中包括6名联合国工作人员。塔利班表示，这是与11月7日总统决选有关的攻势的一部分。武装分子一再发誓要破坏选举。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: OK. So, the focus is Wall Street, but the heart of this problem is homeowners and the people who are getting foreclosed on. NPR's Chris Arnold is here now. And what does this federal bailout mean for them? CHRIS ARNOLD: Hi, Madeleine. Well, this might be good for them and I think this is really interesting. The first goal with all this is to calm down the system, stop the stock market from free-falling, and you know, the credit markets from freezing up. But you know, we're on track to see upwards of a million foreclosures this year. Those numbers keep snowballing and once we settle the markets down, there is going to be a chance here for those people to be dealing with the government, instead of this angry debt collector who's representing a bunch of investors who own their loan. And you know, the hope is that would be better for them. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Well, how would it be better for them? Because they're still going to owe all this money. And so, how would the government treat them differently? CHRIS ARNOLD: Well, yeah, I mean, they are still going to owe them money and the details are just emerging. But you know, first of all - just the scale of this thing, I mean, 700 billion dollars, that's a lot of money and I talked to one economist this morning. He thinks the government might be able to buy up the bulk of these problem loans in the system with that much money. And the companies that are managing these loans for the homeowners that own them and are facing foreclosure, they've just been totally paralyzed by the sheer scale of this problem, and they really haven't been doing their job. MADELEINE BRAND, host: So, Chris the idea here is that the government will do a better job handling these loans than the market place? CHRIS ARNOLD: Yeah, and you know, that's blasphemy for some people. But I mean, you have to recognize that the market is broken here. Something is just not working right and you can see that when you just do the basic math on the situation. I mean, you've got a couple of million people facing foreclosure some of them - there's nothing you can do. You know, maybe they lied on their loan application. They knew they were lying, they don't have a job, it's just totally hopeless, and you have to write off their mortgage. CHRIS ARNOLD: But you know, there's a lot of other people out there, who - it's a much grayer area, they have a job. They're kids are going to school down the street. They want to keep the house. But you know, they just borrowed a little too much money. Or their mortgage broker lied to them, and told them it was a fixed rate loan, and actually it was an adjustable, and now it's a 12 percent, and they can't afford it, you know. And there's 12 other things that could be going on. But ultimately they can pay something and it's often - it often can be in the best interest of the investors that own the loans and the homeowner, if you cut him a deal. CHRIS ARNOLD: You know, if you say well can you pay five or six percent interest, we'll take a little off the top. Then at least you don't have a foreclosure. You lose a lot more money, you know people break into the house, rip out the pipes, I mean, things get ugly, and everybody loses. You just can tell that the system's broken, because a lot of those work-outs as you call them, just aren't happening. MADELEINE BRAND, host: So, Chris, where does it say in this 700 billion dollar bail out proposal that there will be help for home-owners, to either renegotiate their loans or to avoid foreclosure? CHRIS ARNOLD: Well, it doesn't really say that yet. I mean, this is all still getting written and put down on paper, and the Democrats in Congress, you know, some law makers want to see more of this down on paper. You know, so we want some real guarantees that this is going to include more help for homeowners. But you just kind of - common sense here suggests that if the government's buying up a lot of these loans, and it owns these loans now. I mean, it's in the taxpayers' best interest, it's in the interests of the Treasury that they do some work. CHRIS ARNOLD: I mean, you can't hand somebody their house and make them pay 20 dollars for it. But somebody owes $400,000 and they can't really afford that, but they can afford 325, if they pay a five percent interest rate. That costs the government a lot less now, if it does that loan work-out. So, therefore it just makes sense that, if the government's able to get up and running and do it, it would be in everybody's best interest that more of these loans start getting worked out. MADELEINE BRAND, host: NPR's Chris Arnold. Thank you. CHRIS ARNOLD: Thanks, Madeleine.

Some critics call the proposed federal bailout of the financial system a gift to Wall Street. Others say it doesn't go far enough. How will the Treasury Department and Wall Street manage their new relationship?

Einige Kritiker bezeichnen die vorgeschlagene staatliche Rettungsaktion für das Finanzsystem als Geschenk an die Wall Street. Andere sagen, es gehe nicht weit genug. Wie werden das Finanzministerium und die Wall Street ihre neue Beziehung verwalten?

一些批评人士称联邦政府提出的金融系统救助计划是送给华尔街的礼物。也有人说，这还不够。美国财政部和华尔街将如何处理他们的新关系？

MELISSA BLOCK, host: Now back to this country and to an experiment in alternative energy. Picture a desert landscape. In the distance, something shimmering; it looks like a vast blue lake. It's not a mirage. It's mirrors, thousands of them capturing energy from the sun, enough cheap energy to power whole cities. At least that's the vision of a new generation of solar entrepreneurs, as NPR's Kathleen Schalch reports. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: A new factory just opened near Las Vegas, Nevada, built by a company called Ausura, founded by a man named David Mills. Mills is watching robots use suction cups to wield huge sheets of glass. Ausura is mass-producing 50-foor-long mirrors. Mr. DAVID MILLS (Founder, Ausura): We have to, at peak production, deliver one of these every eight minutes. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Ausura plans to crank out enough of these mirrors to cover four square miles of desert each year, enough collectors to provide electricity for 500,000 homes. That's a city the size of Albuquerque. Other solar companies have the same idea. They've drawn up plans to produce enough solar energy to supply a state the size of California. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: David Mills says this is just the beginning. Mr. DAVID MILLS (Founder, Ausura): Effectively, we're talking about replacement of the existing energy system. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Pretty audacious, when you consider that solar energy now generates less than 1 percent of the nation's power supply. The problem up until now has been cost and reliability. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Photovoltaic panels can convert sunlight directly to electricity, but they're expensive; so is the electricity they generate, and they can only make it when the sun is shining. Ausura will use mirrors to get around these problems. It plans on making electricity the old-fashioned way. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Mr. JOHN O'DONNELL (Vice President, Ausura): We make electricity in this country by boiling water. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: John O'Donnell is Ausura's vice president. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Mr. O'DONNELL: We burn coal, we burn gas, and we split atoms to boil water. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Ausura's power plants will boil water by aiming rows of its mirrors at specially coated pipes to make steam to spin turbines. And Ausura thinks that soon it will be able to produce this thermal solar power cheaply enough to compete with coal and gas fired power plants. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: The price of natural gas has skyrocketed. New coal-fired plants are controversial and costly as well. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: And O'Donnell says thermal solar power offers two big advantages - free fuel and reliability. You can't store electricity from photovoltaic cells because it's too expensive, but you can store hot water. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: To illustrate, O'Donnell unscrews a little thermos - the kind you might take to work - then he removes the battery from his laptop computer. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Mr. O'DONNELL: This thermos of coffee and this laptop battery store about the same amount of energy. One of them costs about $5, one of them about $150. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Thermal solar power plants can use stored hot water to make electricity even after dark. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Investors and utilities are keenly interested, according to Nathaniel Bullard, an analyst with New Energy Finance. Mr. NATHANIEL BULLARD (New Energy Finance): I think the sort of rational actress in the market have decided that this is now something that's going to go. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: For one thing, utilities are under pressure. Twenty-three states now require them to get at least some power from renewable sources. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Rhone Resch is president of the Solar Energy Industries Association. Mr. RHONE RESCH (Solar Energy Industries Association): Utilities are looking around and realizing we can't build enough wind in our state. We don't have the resources. We can't build enough geothermal. We don't have the resources. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: So, he says, they're turning to solar. Utilities have signed contracts to buy electricity from companies planning seven big solar thermal power plants in California, Arizona and Nevada, and a lot more plans are on the drawing board. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: But there are no guarantees this will actually happen. In fact... Mr. RHONE RESCH (Solar Energy Industries Association): All those projects are on hold. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Resch says that's because of what's happening in Washington. A 30 percent tax credit meant to spur renewable energy investments could expire this year unless Congress renews it. Lawmakers have been bickering about how to pay for this. The industry also needs big sunny expanses of land. The federal government has got plenty of that. It owns the vast majority of states like Nevada and Arizona. But, Resch says, to use it, you need a permit. Mr. RHONE RESCH (Solar Energy Industries Association): The BLM has not issued one permit for a new solar plant in the United States, not one. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Ray Brady of the Bureau of Land Management says his agency is working on this, but it's simply overwhelmed. In the past year and a half, it's received 125 applications. Mr. RAY BRADY (Bureau of Land Management): If in fact we processed all the existing applications that we have right now, it would be about a million acres. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: He says that's four times the size of the tract set aside for oil and gas exploration. Mr. RAY BRADY (Bureau of Land Management): And it's brand new; we have not completed environmental studies previously. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: And they want to study the impact on endangered species. Energy analyst Nathaniel Bullard perceives other potential hurdles. Mr. NATHANIEL BULLARD (New Energy Finance): You could build the most beautiful, perfect carbon-free generating plant in the world, but without wires, electricity goes nowhere. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: To string them, utilities might have to get past opposition from landowners and environmental groups. Still, Bullard says, with enough mirrors, tubes and wires, you could theoretically provide enough solar power for most of the nation, and that's not science fiction. KATHLEEN SCHALCH: Kathleen Schalch, NPR News, Washington.

Solar firm Ausra has just opened a factory near Las Vegas where it is mass-producing 50-foot-long mirrors to cover 4 square miles of desert each year. That would power 500,000 homes. Other solar companies have the same idea.

Das Solarunternehmen Ausra hat gerade eine Fabrik in der Nähe von Las Vegas eröffnet, in der es 50 Fuß lange Spiegel in Massenproduktion produziert, um jedes Jahr 6 Quadratmeilen Wüste zu bedecken. Das würde 500.000 Haushalte mit Strom versorgen. Andere Solarunternehmen haben die gleiche Idee.

太阳能公司Ausra刚刚在拉斯维加斯附近开设了一家工厂，每年大规模生产覆盖4平方英里沙漠的50英尺长的镜子。这将为50万户家庭供电。其他太阳能公司也有同样的想法。

JOHN YDSTIE, Host: The tunnels in Boston's Big Dig highway system remain closed, more than a week after a woman was killed by a falling concrete ceiling panel. The closures have caused major traffic problems and affected businesses and tourism. State transportation officials are testing new systems for holding up the ceiling panels, but the number of problem areas continues to grow. JOHN YDSTIE, Host: From member station WBUR in Boston, Shannon Mullen reports. SHANNON MULLEN: Governor Mitt Romney, says the number of trouble spots inspectors have discovered in Big Dig tunnels has more than doubled in the past two days. MITT ROMNEY: The reason for that increase, is that now we consider all of the bolts - not just those that were hanging down a 16th of an inch - but all of the bolts, all of the connectors, we believe are of concern. SHANNON MULLEN: In fact, he's calling the system of using epoxy and anchor bolts to hold up concrete ceiling panels, A systemic failure. He says more than 1400 panels will need to be reinforced, and officials have begun field tests on possible techniques. At a news conference yesterday, Romney Drew diagrams of three methods. He highlighted one that uses what are called undercut anchor bolts to hang ceiling panels. Romney says this type of bolt carves away at the concrete, when it's drilled into the tunnel body, creating an internal overhang for itself so it can't be pulled out. MITT ROMNEY: It literally cuts a special channel inside that concrete, which is approximately double the diameter of this hole that's been drilled. So you create an expanded area. That's why it's called an anchor bolt. It opens up on the inside of the concrete and anchors. SHANNON MULLEN: Independent engineer Richard Wollmertsauzer(ph) says it's similar to the type of expanding screw that can be used to hang a heavy picture frame on a wall. RICHARD WOLLMERTSAUZER: It's a heavy-duty version of that. They're designed so that once they're installed they stay in, and they don't come out until the steel breaks. SHANNON MULLEN: Wollmertsauzer is the technical consultant to the company that makes the bolts Massachusetts's officials are testing. He's hesitant to endorse their use in Big Dig tunnels without seeing the design specifications. RICHARD WOLLMERTSAUZER: It would depend on the specific design parameters. Are they going to replace those concrete slabs with something else? Same weight, lighter weight, who knows? SHANNON MULLEN: But he says it's a good application of the technology, and there's none of the worry about mistakes in mixing, handling, or applying epoxy, that could weaken its ability to secure anchor bolts. SHANNON MULLEN: The state's attorney general is investigating whether epoxy errors were a factor in the panel collapse, as part of an ongoing criminal investigation into the incident. Governor Romney says his focus is on fixing the tunnels, not pointing fingers. But there's one question he agrees needs answering. MITT ROMNEY: Clearly everyone wants to know. We've heard that there's a three- year cycle for inspection of the tunnel. What we want to know is was the three- year cycle adhered to? Was this tunnel inspected after it was opened in 2002? And if it was not, then that obviously is a real concern. SHANNON MULLEN: The Massachusetts Turnpike Authority would have overseen those inspections. When asked if they took place as required, agency officials say they're reviewing their records to find out. SHANNON MULLEN: For NPR News, I'm Shannon Mullen in Boston. JOHN YDSTIE, Host: This is NPR News.

The tunnels of Boston's Big Dig highway system remain closed more than a week after a woman was killed when a ceiling panel fell. The closures have caused major traffic problems. State transportation officials are struggling to solve the tunnel system's problems. Shannon Mullen of member station WBUR reports.

Mehr als eine Woche nach dem Tod einer Frau, die beim Herabstürzen einer Deckenplatte ums Leben kam, sind die Tunnel des Bostoner Big-Dig-Autobahnsystems weiterhin gesperrt. Die Sperrungen haben zu erheblichen Verkehrsproblemen geführt. Beamte der staatlichen Verkehrsbehörde bemühen sich, die Probleme des Tunnelsystems zu lösen. Shannon Mullen vom Mitgliedssender WBUR berichtet.

波士顿大隧道高速公路系统的隧道仍处于关闭状态，一个多星期前，一名女子因天花板坠落身亡。封锁造成了严重的交通问题。州交通官员正在努力解决隧道系统的问题。波士顿公共广播电台成员站的香农·马伦报道。

RENEE MONTAGNE, Host: The number one Senate race in the country this election year is in Pennsylvania. That's where Rick Santorum is currently trailing in his bid for a third term by double digits, further behind than any other incumbent senator seeking reelection. His likely Democratic opponent is State Treasurer Bob Casey, Jr., the son and namesake of a popular former Pennsylvania Governor who got the most votes in state history. With nine months to go before election day, NPR's Mara Liasson takes a look at a critical race in the Democrats' effort to win control of the Senate. MARA LIASSON: Santorum knows comments like these have become an issue in the race. Here's what he said at a state Republican committee dinner in Harrisburg. RICK SANTORUM: I've not always made it easy for you to get out there and work, that you've had to keep your heads down at times for things that I've said, or things that I've done. And I suspect you'll have a few of those instances between now and November. Gotta make life interesting, folks. But what I will tell you is, when I'm asked a question of the people that I am here to serve, I will respond with a direct answer. MARA LIASSON: And in Harrisburg, Santorum doesn't hesitate to attack Bob Casey directly, accusing him of being weak on terrorism. RICK SANTORUM: My opponent came out the other day and said he's against the Patriot Act. He just doesn't understand. I mean, he just doesn't understand. You don't stand up and ask someone to vote for you for the United States Senate, if you simply don't understand the biggest threat that's facing this country. BOB CASEY: That is a bald-faced lie, and he knows it. MARA LIASSON: In an interview in Philadelphia on Saturday, Bob Casey says if he were in the Senate, he would've voted for the Patriot Act. In a speech before the Young Democrats of America, Casey focuses on the main issue in his race for Senate: the behavior of the incumbent. BOB CASEY: We know that Senator Santorum says a lot of things that offend us. He says a lot of things that divide and demonize people. He does it all the time. It's my belief, and I think it's the belief of a lot of Pennsylvanians, that even though he has the right to speak, he should no longer be speaking for Pennsylvania in the United States Senate. MARA LIASSON: Casey attacked Santorum for voting against raising the minimum wage, for helping big oil companies, big drug companies, and K-Street lobbyists. BOB CASEY: The sad truth of the matter is that we are represented by a Senator who votes with George Bush 98 percent of the time. Ninety-eight percent. A friend of mine said to me a couple of months ago, he said, you know what? When two people agree 98% of the time, one of them is not necessary. So... MARA LIASSON: President Bush's approval ratings in Pennsylvania are low, about 41 percent, and that's a major factor hurting Santorum. Casey insists he will not be a rubber stamp for either party. He's pro-life, and he says he would have voted for Samuel Alito's confirmation to the Supreme Court, a position at odds with most of his party in the Senate. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Great to see you. We're doing everything we can to support you. BOB CASEY: Ah, that's great, thank you very much. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yep. BOB CASEY: Appreciate your advocacy for us. Thank you. UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yep. No problem. MARA LIASSON: As Casey works the crowd, Kathleen Gerber, from the Pennsylvania Young Democrats group, worries that Casey hasn't done enough even at this early stage in the race. KATHLEEN GERBER: I think he's got to get out there and start talking to people more, and be a lot more visible. That's what I've been hearing from everyone. He needs to do more of what he did today. MARA LIASSON: Santorum has a different set of problems. His comments on cultural issues may help rally conservatives, but in a swing state like Pennsylvania, they've also cost him the support of moderate Republicans in the vote-rich suburbs around Philadelphia. So, in the space of three days last month, Santorum covers all his bases. RICK SANTORUM: If you can hit that can. I'll shoot first to give you a demonstration. MARA LIASSON: In Harrisburg he appears at a sports show and tries out a blowgun. RICK SANTORUM: Ah! Yeah, man! UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yeah! Whoo! MARA LIASSON: And he explains to his gun-rights audience why he's pushing hard to take social security numbers off of fish and game licenses. RICK SANTORUM: The folks who are hunters and fisherman, in many cases, they have a heightened sense of concern about privacy, because of, you know, all the attempts in the past by government to try to regulate the sale of guns, and identifying who owns guns. So there's a suspicion of government already, and for the collection of a social security for no real legitimate reason, it doesn't serve any purpose. MARA LIASSON: Then, in Philadelphia, at an event at a children's hospital, Santorum showcases something else: his power as an incumbent to bring money to the state. In this case, from the Department of Transportation. RICK SANTORUM: Secretary Mineta, thank you for coming to Philadelphia to announce these grants to do more research, and to understand better the impact of not having booster seats on children. And as a father of six, I have to climb over, sometimes, seats to get to buckle them in, and I can tell you that... MARA LIASSON: Political scientist Terry Madonna directs the Keystone Poll. He says there's nothing unusual about a conservative Republican, in a light blue state like Pennsylvania, marching back to the center in an election year. But this time, Madonna wonders if it will be enough. TERRY MADONNA: Here's the fundamental question: is it too little, too late, and as an incumbent, have the voters said you're done? And Casey only has to be an option and an alternative, and Casey has said very little. He's using a kind of a rope-a-dope strategy, only doing what he has to do, and so Casey just wants to be the last candidate standing here, if Santorum can't find a way to get back in the race. MARA LIASSON: Or, says Madonna, does Santorum have reservoirs of strength that are not showing up in the polls right now? Strengths that could help him reverse Casey's current double-digit lead? TERRY MADONNA: Santorum himself is a very good, solid campaigner. He's been typically underestimated by Democrats who scratch their heads and can't figure out why this cultural hot-button candidate has won twice in a state that typically sends more moderate representatives to Congress. MARA LIASSON: Mara Liasson, NPR News. BOB CASEY: I say we need a new direction in this state and in America, and we're going to begin that in 2006. RICK SANTORUM: This is going to be a brutal race. I know we just came out of a Super Bowl, but this is going to be the Super Bowl of Senate races, and we're going to need all your help.

The Senate race in Pennsylvania is considered the No. 1 race to watch this year. Republican incumbent Rick Santorum trails in his bid for a third term. Ironically, the Democrats' best chance at gaining a Senate seat is with a pro-life, pro-Alito candidate.

Das Senatsrennen in Pennsylvania gilt als das Rennen Nr. 1 in diesem Jahr. Der republikanische Amtsinhaber Rick Santorum bleibt bei seiner Bewerbung um eine dritte Amtszeit zurück. Ironischerweise haben die Demokraten die beste Chance, einen Sitz im Senat zu bekommen, wenn sie einen Kandidaten aufstellen, der für das Leben eintritt und Alito unterstützt.

宾夕法尼亚州的参议院选举被认为是今年最值得关注的选举。共和党现任总统里克·桑托勒姆在第三个任期的竞选中落后。具有讽刺意味的是，民主党获得参议院席位的最佳机会是支持生命、支持阿利托的候选人。

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: The dual reality that is the National Football League continues on this Monday. We're fresh off another weekend of sometimes-dramatic games, and we're heading into a week in which the NFL's off-field troubles will command attention too. So we have news about people who did play over the weekend and people who didn't. Joining us now is NPR sports correspondent Tom Goldman. Hi, Tom. TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: Hello, Steve. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Let's talk first about the people who did play - the Patriots - pretty dramatic game against the Packers. You have Tom Brady, you have Aaron Rodgers and a kind of Super Bowl preview, people said, over the weekend. TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: Absolutely, two really good teams. The Patriots have been cruising behind Tom Brady in a strong running game and defense, and they have looked complete and primed for another championship run, but yesterday, exposed some problems in their narrow loss to the Green Bay Packers. The Pats's defense couldn't pressure Aaron Rodgers. For a second straight week, the Patriots's runners were held under a hundred yards. Green Bay's defense, which statistically is not that great, showed statistics sometimes don't mean much, and they did a good job. This is the new best team in the NFL, Steve, the Green Bay Packers for this week at least, and if this turns out to be the Super Bowl matchup, it's going to be a good one. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Two teams that are 9 and 3 - caught a bit of that over the weekend. It was a great game. But let's talk about another game and a quarterback who did not play - Robert Griffin, RG3 benched for the Washington Redskins over the weekend, although it didn't do them much good, Tom Goldman. TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: It did not. They still lost to the Indianapolis Colts, although RG3's replacement, Colt McCoy, was good statistically in the loss to Indy, so good enough to probably keep the job. Remember, Steve, just a couple of years ago, Robert Griffin III was the second pick in the draft. He was named the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. He led Washington to the playoffs. And then he's on the bench, and it's going to be hard for him to remain in Washington, D.C., a lot of people believe, because it's hard to come back after your coach has publicly said, you're not a very good quarterback and you need to work on your fundamentals. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK, Tom Goldman, I have to ask about Ray Rice. If people weren't closely following the news over the weekend, they might have missed the news dropped Friday night that Ray Rice's suspension has been lifted, meaning that if he can find a team willing to take him, he can come back to the NFL after being caught on videotape beating his fiancee, now his wife. And he's going to begin by going on the "Today" show today and tomorrow, so some PR to be done here. TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: Oh, I think so. The public image rehabbing begins today on "Today," a first step, the Rices hope, I'm sure, toward getting Ray back on the field, despite the judge's ruling last Friday. You know, we're still just a few months removed from the damning videotape of him punching his wife, then fiancee. And for that reason, it's highly unlikely any team would risk the bad publicity by signing him this year, despite what he's going to attempt publically over the next few days. He will be 28 next year. Usually a running back starts his downhill spiral right around 30 or a little older, so he may have some game left in him if a team wants to take that chance. But that would probably be next year at the earliest. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Next year meaning that there's going to be a statute of limitations here. At some point, he'll be back on the field as Michael Vick eventually was back on the field. TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: Well, you know, a lot of people have raised the issue of Michael Vick. They say, how can you let Ray Rice back on the field after what he did, after we all saw what he did? Well, as you point out, Michael Vick in that infamous case, killed dogs and went to jail for it. And he's back. And while not widely celebrated, he's back and widely accepted in the NFL. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Tom, thanks very much. TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: You're welcome. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: That's NPR's Tom Goldman.

Was the New England Patriots-Green Bay Packers game a Super Bowl preview? Does the putrid NFC South really deserve a spot in the playoffs, or can they give it to the SEC?

War das Spiel New England Patriots-Green Bay Packers eine Vorschau auf den Super Bowl? Verdient die faulige NFC South wirklich einen Platz in den Playoffs oder können sie ihn der SEC geben?

新英格兰爱国者队和绿湾包装工队的比赛是超级碗的预演吗？腐朽的NFC南方队真的应该在季后赛中占有一席之地，还是他们可以把它交给SEC？

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: There is growing outrage over the U.S. government's detention of migrant children. Some children arrive at the border alone. Others are separated from their parents after they're detained. More than 10,000 are in custody, and the government says it's running out of space to put them. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Now, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, yesterday, defended the administration's policy choice. He said it is the administration practice to follow U.S. law. JEFF SESSIONS: Many of the criticisms raised in recent days are not fair, not logical and some are contrary to plain law. First, illegal entry into the United States is a crime. It should be. It must be, if you're going to have a legal system and have any limits whatsoever. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Although the question of course is, what happens to people after they're stopped for committing that crime? Sessions answered criticism by people he called our church friends. Southern Baptists, among others, have criticized family separation at the border. In response, the attorney general cited the Bible, the book of Romans, obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right, NPR congressional correspondent Susan Davis is here in the studio. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Hey, Sue. SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: Good morning. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right, the White House keeps saying that this is the law. We're just enforcing it. If you want to change the law, change it. So first off, can we just clarify, is separating families at the border based on the U.S. law? SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: No, it is not law. It is the interpretation of a 1997 court decision that does address what you do with people when they approach the border. What the Trump administration has done is they have taken that court decision and made an executive action that determines that families should be separated. In prior administrations, including the Obama administration, when families would approach the border, they would detain them but they would keep them together. Now they are being separated. Even House Speaker Paul Ryan has said this is based on a court settlement and why Congress is looking to act because it needs a law. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So Paul Ryan, yesterday, expressing, as you note, some criticism of this policy - so is Congress going to do anything here? SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: They are going to take up immigration next week. It would address families at the border. It would require them to be kept together. If they are detained, they could not be separated, or a child would have to stay with at least one parent. It's tucked into a broader immigration bill that's going to attempt to address legal status for people who are brought here as children, include money for a border wall, restrict legal immigration. The question is we don't know if it will pass. And if it doesn't pass, then the onus goes back to the Trump administration to either continue this policy or stop it, which they do have the authority to do. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So this is the same debate we've been having now for months, if not years, over immigration. What are the current fault lines? SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: The fault lines really are within the Republican Party. They haven't really asked Democrats to the table on this. The compromise bill, as they're calling it, next week, is really a compromise within the ideological wings of the party, between conservatives and moderates. And where this policy actually has broad support to change in Congress might just get bogged down in this broader, intractable immigration debate, particularly over the question of, do you ever provide a path to citizenship for people that are residing here in the country illegally? So if it doesn't pass, it's more because it will fall victim to a broader immigration debate, not because Congress thinks families should be separated at the border. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Meanwhile, midterms are approaching. And so no doubt, this is going to be a political issue come those votes. NPR congressional correspondent Susan Davis. Thanks so much, Sue. SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: You're welcome. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Extraordinary and insubordinate - that's what a Justice Department watchdog had to say about how former FBI Director James Comey handled Hillary Clinton's email investigation. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Yeah, this inspector general's report faulted Comey for talking too much during the 2016 presidential campaign. You may recall that Comey's FBI decided not to charge Hillary Clinton for her use of a private email server as secretary of state. But Comey publicly criticized her without the permission of her boss. Yet the inspector general found something else. Here's the new FBI director Christopher Wray. CHRISTOPHER WRAY: This report did not find any evidence of political bias or improper considerations actually impacting the investigation under review. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right, we've got NPR national justice correspondent Carrie Johnson with us here this morning. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Hi, Carrie. CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Good morning, Rachel. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I want to start by reading a tweet from the former U.S. attorney Preet Bharara who said the IG report is, quote, "careful, thorough, detailed and fair in all its parts. Now let the poisonous cherry-picking begin," suggesting there that there's basically something for every partisan in this report. CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: That's true. And that's been the case about this investigation even before this massive 500-page report came out. Democrats are still very upset about former FBI Director Jim Comey talking too much about Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election. Clinton says it may have cost her the race. And Republicans are really unhappy with the special counsel, the current special counsel, investigating Russian interference in the election. And they're using these allegations to try to damage the credibility of the FBI and the Justice Department. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So we should just briefly remind listeners what was in this. Right? On the whole, James Comey is cleared of being motivated by any kind of political bias. But as we noted, he was described as being insubordinate in his actions. But also, there were these two FBI officials who were caught in this text message exchange that was seen to be extremely partisan. CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Very unseemly text messages exchanged by Lisa Page, a former lawyer at the FBI; Peter Strzok, a top agent there, including one in which Page talks about Trump can't become president - right? And Strzok says, no, we'll stop him. That's raising a lot of questions. The inspector general says the damage caused by their actions extends far beyond the scope of this investigation. It goes to the very heart of the FBI's credibility as a neutral fact-finder free from political interference. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Is there going to be any fallout here, either for those FBI officials - or really, what does it mean for James Comey's legacy? CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Yeah, the IG has referred not just Page and Strzok but three other unnamed FBI people for possible internal discipline. The IG is testifying on Capitol Hill next week. As for Jim Comey, he says that he doesn't agree with all the recommendations and things in this report but he respects the process and the inspector general. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: We should say, he clearly had his op-ed ready to go. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: As soon as this IG report came out, all of a sudden, his op-ed defending his actions was online. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: I think there's one thing that is worth just keeping in mind here. There are separate, different investigations. There's the email investigation. There's the Russia investigation. They get conflated all the time. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Right. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Obviously, they get conflated deliberately all the time. And it's valuable for us as citizens just to remember that there are different things going on. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Separate. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Yeah. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Carrie, before we let you go, Paul Manafort, Donald Trump's former campaign manager, is going to see special counsel Robert Mueller today in court. What's happening there? CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Yes, Manafort is in court for a hearing on whether his bail might be revoked. Manafort could wind up in jail while he waits for trial. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right, NPR's Carrie Johnson for us this morning. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Thanks, Carrie. CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Thank you. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right, here's a line you've probably heard before. The Trump administration says it plans to impose new tariffs. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: I have heard that line before. Well, here we go again. Later today, the White House is expected to release a list of Chinese goods subject to tariffs of up to 25 percent. China has warned it will not hesitate to retaliate. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Let's explore this - shall we? - with NPR's Uri Berliner. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Hey, Uri. URI BERLINER, BYLINE: Good morning, Rachel. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: First off, do we know which products are going to be slapped with these tariffs? URI BERLINER, BYLINE: Well, the initial list of these tariffs included things like touch screens, hearing aids, medical devices - mostly pretty high-tech things. And we expect that this final list will be somewhat smaller but very similar. So the idea really is to thwart China's developing technology industries rather than impose tariffs on your basic consumer goods, things like T-shirts and socks and toys. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So how did we get to this point because it wasn't that long ago the U.S. and China had high-level trade representatives who were meeting face-to-face to try to avert a trade war? And now it feels like it's escalating. URI BERLINER, BYLINE: It sure does. You know, there seemed to be some progress, some willingness from the Chinese side to buy more products from the U.S. But these trade tensions have been simmering all along. And as we've seen, the administration is willing to go ahead and impose tariffs on steel and aluminum with some of the U.S.'s closest allies. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I thought, at its core, this was really all about intellectual property disputes - right? - that China was violating intellectual property rules. But none of what we're seeing in terms of these tariffs really addresses that, does it? URI BERLINER, BYLINE: Well, the extent to which these items that are on the list are high-tech items, that's the motivation there. But there are other ways to go after China for things like forcing American companies to transfer their technology, intellectual property. The U.S. can pressure the Chinese government to crack down on counterfeits. The U.S. can pressure the Chinese government to crack down on companies that ignore things like patents and copyrights. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So you're saying that the products that are on this list are somehow a violation of U.S. intellectual property, that these were things that were actually created by the U.S.? URI BERLINER, BYLINE: Well, the products on the list are high-tech items. So it's clear that the intention here is to go after Chinese developing technology industries, the areas in which the U.S. thinks the Chinese have been stealing intellectual property or violating those. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: So what effect does any of this have on the markets because, as we know, trade wars historically have been bad for the economy? But so much of this has been, like, two steps forward, one step back. Like, how can the market read what's happening? URI BERLINER, BYLINE: Well, it is hard to get a read on it because the administration could scale back some of these tariffs or phase them in gradually. You know, so far, we haven't seen much effect on the economy. But what's notable is that the escalation of these trade tensions are coming when the economies of both countries are doing quite well. China's economy did really well in the first quarter. It's had a little bit of a bump. And the U.S. economy, as you know, has done very well. Unemployment is at 3.8 percent. Wages are starting to rise. So the timing is notable. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: NPR's Uri Berliner for us this morning talking the China trade tariffs. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Uri, thanks as always. URI BERLINER, BYLINE: Of course. Thanks, Rachel.

Former FBI Director James Comey has been found insubordinate in his handling of the Clinton email investigation, but not biased. Also, House Republicans plan to vote next week on immigration bills.

Der ehemalige FBI-Direktor James Comey hat sich in seinem Umgang mit der Clinton-E-Mail-Untersuchung als unbotmäßig, aber nicht voreingenommen erwiesen. Außerdem planen die Republikaner des Repräsentantenhauses, nächste Woche über Einwanderungsgesetze abzustimmen.

处理希拉里邮件调查事件时，美国政府发现联邦调查局前局长詹姆斯·科米不服从命令，但不持偏见。此外，众议院共和党人计划下周就移民法案进行投票。

SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Another effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act gained steam last night. A federal judge in Texas ruled that the law is unconstitutional. We're joined now by NPR's health policy correspondent, Alison Kodjak. Alison, thanks so much for coming in. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Thanks for having me, Scott. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: This decision was received last night. What's it say? ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Well, it's a pretty sweeping decision, actually. This judge ruled that the entire Affordable Care Act, which famously ran more than a thousand pages long, was unconstitutional. The case was brought by 18 Republican attorneys general, and it was led by Texas AG Ken Paxton. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: And, you know, in 2015, the Supreme Court ruled the Affordable Care Act is constitutional by calling the penalty for not having insurance a tax. And Congress has the power to tax people. So these attorneys general come in, and they argued that since Congress eliminated that tax penalty, the law can no longer stand. And that's what the judge agreed to last night. And he took that argument, and he struck down the entire law. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Now, it's going to be appealed. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Yeah. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: The attorney general of California's already said so. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Any immediate effect on anyone's health care? ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Well, it's unclear. But at least the Department of Health and Human Services is saying that the Affordable Care Act will stand as this works its way through courts. And the funny thing is today is the final day for... SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Yes. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: ...Open enrollment for next year for people to get insurance. And on the website healthcare.gov, there's actually a banner that says, this decision doesn't change open enrollment for now. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: What about political repercussions? ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: And that's a more complicated thing. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Yeah. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: So we just had midterm elections, as you know, and people really said health care is an important issue to them. And, you know, that's not a surprise. But lots of Republicans were running ads during this midterm, saying that they were the ones who are going to protect people's health care and, specifically, protect people with pre-existing conditions, which is one of those more sensitive issues around the Affordable Care Act. People want to make sure that if they're sick, they can get insurance. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: But in this lawsuit, these Republican attorneys general specifically argue that the pre-existing condition protections had to be struck down when that mandate went away. So now you have Republicans sort of trying to play both sides, which is going to be difficult. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: And then there's one other point that, you know, I think a lawyer made to me last night. Congress, in 2017, voted multiple times on whether to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and they didn't do it. And now this judge has gone in and done it by himself. And one lawyer called this a breathtaking act of judicial activism. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: In the end, if the Affordable Care Act goes away, if it's abolished, what can we expect to happen? ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: It will be - the repercussions will, you know, be far and wide. As I said, the law has more than a thousand pages. It touches every part of the health care system. So it's not just these marketplaces that we talk about most of the time. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: The most immediate impact is Medicaid expansion. More than 10 million people have gotten health care because states have expanded Medicaid to a larger population. The law guarantees that people up to age 26 can get insurance through their parents. That's popular - that would go away. Again, the pre-existing condition protections - insurance companies have to give people coverage for their existing health problems. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: But then, it also controls what Medicare pays doctors. It authorizes the Indian Health Service. It determines whether companies have to make accommodations for breastfeeding mothers. It makes chain restaurants put calorie counts on their menus. I mean, it's everywhere. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of things have changed in American life. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Yeah. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: And that was the idea of the legislation. There are Americans who have changed their jobs. There are Americans who've changed what they do in life... ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Yeah. If this just goes away... SCOTT SIMON, HOST: ...To be able to get health care. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: ...It would wreak havoc across the country in many ways. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: NPR's Alison Kodjak, thanks so much for being with us. ALISON KODJAK, BYLINE: Thank you, Scott.

A Texas judge on Friday said that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional — a ruling likely to be appealed and to make its way up to the Supreme Court.

Ein texanischer Richter erklärte am Freitag das Affordable Care Act für verfassungswidrig - ein Urteil, gegen das wahrscheinlich Berufung eingelegt wird und das bis zum Obersten Gerichtshof gelangen wird.

德克萨斯州的一名法官上周五表示，《平价医疗法案》违宪。这一裁决可能会被上诉，并被提交至最高法院。

IRA FLATOW, HOST: You're listening to SCIENCE FRIDAY. I'm Ira Flatow. We could be ushering a new era of space travel tomorrow, when where private companies, instead of NASA, carry cargo and maybe astronauts into space. At 4:55 AM tomorrow, scheduled for tomorrow, the SpaceX company is hoping to launch its Dragon spacecraft from Cape Canaveral. The Dragon will be carrying a payload to the International Space Station. And if all goes as planned, SpaceX will be the first company to send a commercially developed, launched and operated, craft to meet the ISS - though much of the money for it still comes from taxpayers. IRA FLATOW, HOST: SpaceX won't be delivering any astronauts for now, but that's part of the plan for the future. Since without the space shuttle, the U.S. is relying on the Russians to taxi people back and forth to space. Joining me now to talk more about it is one of the folks who will no doubt be watching the launch, probably biting his nails a bit, Elon Musk, CEO, chief designer at the Space Exploration Technologies Corporation or SpaceX. He's also CEO and product architect for Tesla Motors. Welcome back to SCIENCE FRIDAY, Elon. ELON MUSK: Thanks for having me. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Launch tomorrow, when - what's - give us a sequence of what's going to happen over the next few days. ELON MUSK: Yes. Launch is tomorrow at 4:55 AM Cape Canaveral time, which is where the rocket launches from, or, say, 1:55 AM California time. I'll actually be here in California at SpaceX headquarters at mission control. And so we have launch control at Cape Canaveral, and we've got mission control here at headquarters in California. So for the first nine minutes or so, the rocket will be ascending and delivering the Dragon spacecraft to orbit. And then the Dragon spacecraft will separate from the rocket and then - and begin orbital phasing with the space station, which will take a few days. ELON MUSK: Then we're going to do, essentially, a flyby at the space station. Now, something that's important to appreciate is that the space station is actually zooming around the Earth at 17,000 miles an hour. People sort of think it's just sort of up there and stationary, but it's zipping around the Earth at - it actually completes an orbit of the Earth every 19 minutes. So you can think of this like you're trying to synchronize speed with something that's going 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle. ELON MUSK: And we've got to match the space station. As the space station makes more movements in its orbit, we've got to track those movements exactly. So we'll do a wide loop around the space station, establish communication - a communication link with the space station, have our docking sensors lock on and then the spacecraft actually plots an approach vector and will go in and pause at various points before finally going into dock with the space station. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And what time into the mission will it actually dock? ELON MUSK: There's a little bit of variability there, because it depends on how things are looking and whether we need to upload new software or new navigation vectors. But it should be around three or four days after launch. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And so mission control, NASA will tell the space station crew they're go for capture, or is that up to you guys? ELON MUSK: It's a joint effort. Both NASA and SpaceX have to get - be green for the docking. IRA FLATOW, HOST: As you say, they'll do a flyby. Will that mean the astronauts will be looking at the statives(ph) of your space vehicle, the Dragon? ELON MUSK: Yeah, absolutely. They'll see Dragon doing a loop around the space station. It's a pretty wide loop, so Dragon will still look pretty small from the space station when it's doing that wide loop around the space station. But I mean, just to visualize things, it's like literally imagine you doing a loop around a bullet that's going 12 times faster than something that came out of an assault rifle. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah. ELON MUSK: So it's a dodgy affair. IRA FLATOW, HOST: I know. You know, when - and they first tried this in the '60s. ELON MUSK: Right. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Docking in orbit was accomplished in the '60s - I think Gemini 2, whatever. It was doing - Ed White was involved and some of things. Anyhow, so are you sort of relearning all the spacey things that astronauts have been doing for years? ELON MUSK: Yeah. I mean, to some degree, what SpaceX has been doing, thus far, is kind of catching up to the state of, you know, the present state of space technology, and now, we're beginning to - I think we're beginning to exceed it. And in the coming years, we're really going to push the frontier of rocket technology to places that it's never been before. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And so what is the ultimate goal? Is it to create a substitute cargo ship like this - like the Dragon, or is it also to bring people into space? ELON MUSK: Absolutely to bring people. And in fact, the cargo version of Dragon is very similar to the crew version. In fact, even the cargo version has windows. And if you were to stow aboard the Dragon and hide out amongst the cargo, you'd actually have a pleasant flight up to the space station, assuming things go well. IRA FLATOW, HOST: So no monkeys for you like NASA had. You just have - you just go up there without any people in it, but could have people if you needed to. ELON MUSK: If someone stayed aboard, they'd fine. So we actually will have some biological cargo. And in the future, we'll be carrying plants and mice and various experiments to and from the space station. And it's quite big inside Dragon. In fact, we've got space for seven astronauts. And we've been doing advanced work on the crew version of Dragon, which like - that's it very similar to the cargo version, which has a great advantage because we're able to, therefore, prove out the system in cargo without risking human life. IRA FLATOW, HOST: So you've got the same human capacity as the space shuttle had, which was... ELON MUSK: That's right. Exactly. IRA FLATOW, HOST: ...at the same time. ELON MUSK: But we're much cheaper. So we're about one-eighth the cost of the space shuttle, and I think that - a much safer design because Dragon, when carrying crew, will actually have a launch-escape capability. So it has a escape rockets to get away from the rocket if there's an emergency. And being an automatically stable kind of capsule gum-drop shape, it means that the main heat shield will actually orients itself downward even if there's a failure in the flight systems. And that means that you don't have to worry about it. ELON MUSK: If you got a plane, you got to maintain a particular angle of attack. You've got to worry about whether the various control systems are working properly. And if there's any flaw in that, then you've got a real problem. You don't have that issue with Dragon. And it'll also have a double-layer heat shield and much more robust heat shield as well. And then the new version of Dragon, the one that will carry crew, actually they're capable of landing propulsively, so landing on thrusters, which I think is pretty cool. It'll have a parachute back up, though, it's capable of landing on its thrusters. IRA FLATOW, HOST: You mean like in the movies, the rocket ship backing up, landing on Earth? ELON MUSK: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think real rockets should land on their thrusters. IRA FLATOW, HOST: That's a good quote for today. ELON MUSK: That's the best way to land. I think it's pretty cool. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah, it is cool. How much is space expense so far? And how much of your funding comes from NASA? ELON MUSK: Sure. So we spent around over $1 billion thus far, and NASA's maybe responsible for about 40 percent of that. And then we've got a bit much private capital that's been raised and payments from other customers and from (unintelligible) that we've already achieved and other launches that we've done. And, yeah, so it ends up being a great deal for the taxpayers because it ends up costing much less than alternative approaches, and in particular when we're launching crew. Because right now - because of the retirement of the space shuttle, American actual attempt to go up on the Russian Soyuz, and it costs over $60 million per seat. And when our vehicle is flying, it'll actually cost around $20 million a seat, so it'll be a huge savings. IRA FLATOW, HOST: But there are already some skeptics in Congress. I'm going to quote Ralph Hall, head of the House Science Committee, quoted in The Wall Street Journal as saying: I have yet to be convinced that a viable, commercial market will develop for privately-built spacecraft. ELON MUSK: Well, you know, I've had conversations with Ralph Hall. He's actually - I think he's a great guy. I mean, his skepticism on a certain level, I think, has merit in that this has never been done before, and there's no prior precedent. So in light of that, his skepticism is not unwarranted. But we've made great progress thus far, and we've successfully launched Falcon 9, the rocket, twice. And we've launched the Dragon spacecraft to orbit and brought it back safely already. And now with this mission, we're going to be docking with the space station. I think this mission will do a lot to convince people like Ralph Hall that this is the way to go. IRA FLATOW, HOST: But you only have one place to go, I mean, with this, right? I mean, well, can you build a business on just going to the space station? ELON MUSK: No. Actually, it's important to mention that SpaceX's - of the launches we have under contract - so we have about 40 launches under contract, and of those, only 13 are from NASA, 27 of them are commercial launches. And they are for delivering satellites of all kinds, like communication satellites, broadcast satellites, you know, things like DirecTV, XM radio, mapping satellites that do things like Google Maps, there's a lot of satellites - in fact, most satellites that are launched are actually not government satellites. So... IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah. So you're trying to do what the shuttle would have done with a smaller cargo bay, but - and be usable and come back but land on your thrusters, as you say. ELON MUSK: Yeah, yeah. That'll be version two. Version one, which is the current version, is - parachutes to a water landing because that was the safest way to go in the beginning. But version two is going to be able to land on thrusters, and it'll actually be capable of doing missions to, you know, other parts of the solar system as well and... IRA FLATOW, HOST: The moon? ELON MUSK: The moon's - yeah, it could potentially go to the moon. IRA FLATOW, HOST: How much cheaper - since you're doing this at, what, a quarter of the cost or something of what NASA or the Russians could do, how much cheaper could you get to the moon and back? ELON MUSK: Well, I think it's probably - well, it's sort of how much cheaper than what number, I guess. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Can you make it cheap enough to want to do it and to make it commercially feasible if no one else going to do it? ELON MUSK: I think we could - I'm actually fairly confident we could do manned missions to the moon in relatively short order if we had a customer that wanted to do that. And we'll certainly have some interesting announcements in the coming years that I think people will be pretty excited about. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Does that include Mars? ELON MUSK: Yeah. Mars is the ultimate goal and not just to visit, but to be able to develop a system that's capable of taking, ultimately, millions of people and millions of tons of cargo to Mars in order to create a self-sustaining civilization and make life multi-planetary. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Talking with Elon Musk on SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR. So you're not afraid to think big? IRA FLATOW, HOST: Now there are very few big thinkers. You know, there's always, now, it just costs too much to do something, you know, in a multigenerational scale. ELON MUSK: Yes. Well, there's a tremendous amount of technology that has been to invented in order to do what I just mentioned, to create a civilization on Mars both in terms of the transport and the infrastructure on the ground on Mars. And Mars is a bit of a fixer-upper of a planet, so it's going to take a little bit of work, but it's the only viable option in the solar system. And outside of the solar system is really not possible because of the distances. IRA FLATOW, HOST: You're also teaming up with Paul Allen for something called Stratolaunch. Does this dovetail with that? Can you describe that a bit? And does this dove-tail with that or is it a totally separate project? ELON MUSK: That's a separate project and the basic premises for Stratolaunch is that there are satellite customers who are really want a lot of flexibility in launch location. So the rocket can be picked up by a giant aircraft and the launch can occur, I think, almost anywhere on Earth. That's the basic idea with Stratolaunch, or that's the premise. But it's independent from our other activities. IRA FLATOW, HOST: So like going back to the '60s with dropping an X-15 out of the belly of a bomber and shooting it up into space. ELON MUSK: Right, right. It doesn't result in a cost-savings, but it does result in increased launch life flexibility. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Mm-hmm. And just - while I have you here for a few here for a few seconds, let's talk a bit about Tesla Motors if you don't mind. ELON MUSK: Sure. IRA FLATOW, HOST: I see that your power train is - the battery and the power train is showing up in the Toyota. ELON MUSK: Yeah. The Toyota RAV4, electric RAV4 is - we make the whole power trains, the motor transmission, battery pack and motor, everything that makes it move, and this is a great partnership that we have with Toyota. And we're really excited to have that part come out to market. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And what about your own Model S? Can we see that soon? ELON MUSK: Yes. And so the Model S will go into production - in fact, I should say to be precise, we'll start deliveries next month. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Wow. And you're expecting this to be - are there companies - is your power train and battery situation such a success that other companies now are looking to license your technology? ELON MUSK: Yeah. We don't yet license, although we're happy to consider such, but we do manufacture for and supply to other companies. So our two main partners are Toyota and Daimler, who makes Mercedes and Smart. So we've got a Mercedes program where we're also going to be making the whole power train. And I think that's going to be a really compelling vehicle at an affordable price. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And how many cars with your stuff in it total, do you think, we'll be seeing soon? ELON MUSK: Well, over time, I think we'll see - long term, I think we'll see millions of cars with - that are either Tesla or work with Tesla components that our partners are making. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Mm-hmm. And how many in this country do you think within the next two or three years? ELON MUSK: Well, every year that passes, I think you'll see dramatic increases. I mean, this year, we expect to deliver about 5,000 Model S's and next year, over 20,000. And the year thereafter will probably be, you know, 40,000 vehicles. So it's really increasing quite rapidly year over year. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Anything else that you'd like to do that you haven't done yet? You have something thinking about? ELON MUSK: Well, I should mention SolarCity. SolarCity will be doing an IPO later this year, and I think it's going to be a very successful IPO. It is definitely not easy making things work in the solar business and - or rather it's not easy making things work in the rocket business, car business or solar business, frankly. These are not the places that anyone should take if they're looking for the highest risk-adjusted return. But nonetheless, I think all companies are going to pretty well and are doing pretty well. It's definitely not as easy as making money on the Internet though. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah. Well, we're glad to see someone's trying some new things at least. Thank you very much, Elon, for taking time to be with us today... ELON MUSK: And you're welcome. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Someone who's taking a chance. Elon Musk, CEO and chief designer at Space Exploration Technologies, SpaceX, also CEO and product architect for Tesla Motors.

SpaceX is set to launch its Dragon spacecraft to rendezvous with the International Space Station this weekend. If successful, it will be the first commercially developed, launched and operated craft to meet the ISS. SpaceX head Elon Musk talks about the launch, and his other project, Tesla Motors.

SpaceX wird dieses Wochenende sein Dragon-Raumschiff zum Rendezvous mit der Internationalen Raumstation starten. Wenn dies gelingt, wird es das erste kommerziell entwickelte, gestartete und betriebene Raumschiff sein, das die ISS trifft. SpaceX-Chef Elon Musk spricht über den Start und sein anderes Projekt, Tesla Motors.

SpaceX将于本周末发射其“龙”号宇宙飞船，与国际空间站会合。如果成功，它将是第一艘商业开发、发射和运行的飞船，以满足国际空间站的要求。SpaceX负责人埃隆·马斯克谈到了这次发射，以及他的另一个项目特斯拉汽车公司。

ROBERT SIEGEL, host: From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Robert Siegel. ROBERT SIEGEL, host: Germany is one step closer to a change of government. Today Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder lost a confidence vote in the lower house of parliament. That opens the door for national elections this fall, a year ahead of schedule. As NPR's Emily Harris reports from Berlin, today's vote was exactly what Schroeder wanted. EMILY HARRIS reporting: The president of Germany's lower house of parliament, Wolfgang Thierse, announced the results of the no-confidence vote. Mr. WOLFGANG THIERSE (President, Bundestag): (German spoken) HARRIS: Although Schroeder's coalition of the Social Democratic and the Green parties hold a three-seat majority in parliament, only a quarter of the members said they were confident the chancellor could continue to lead. Half voted no, and a quarter abstained. The vote came after Schroeder told parliament he wanted national elections a year ahead of schedule to get a fresh mandate for economic reforms. Those reforms are deeply unpopular, but Schroeder defended them. Chancellor GERHARD SCHROEDER (Germany): (Through Translator) These reforms are necessary to preserve the social state for the future, to prepare our economy for globalization and our aging population. They had to be pushed through against massive opposition by interest groups. HARRIS: Schroeder accused the opposition Christian Democrats, the party that now leads in most polls, of playing on voter fears of budget cuts and change. When Christian Democratic leader Angela Merkel addressed parliament, the tone went further into campaign mode. Ms. ANGELA MERKEL (Christian Democratic Party Leader): (Through Translator) The chancellor will not argue that unemployment numbers of nearly five million people are exactly the opposite of what they offered us. The idea was to reduce unemployment by 50 percent. Instead, we have one and a half million fewer jobs in this country. That's the reality. HARRIS: It's now likely that elections will be held in September, although it's not a fully done deal. The German president now has three weeks to decide whether to accept today's vote as truly one of no confidence, dissolve parliament and call early elections, or overrule parliament and keep the Social Democrats in power until scheduled elections next year. Germany's constitution has this check built in to avoid the frequent changes of government that helped put Adolf Hitler in power in the 1930s. But some politicians and constitutional experts accuse Schroeder of bending the constitution for political gain. Professor ULRICH BATTIS(ph): It is not in the original spirit of the constitution. It is not. HARRIS: Nonetheless, law Professor Ulrich Battis expects elections to go ahead in September as Chancellor Schroeder wants. Professor ULRICH BATTIS(ph): The president will have his own decision, but he can only say no if he is convinced that it is really abuse of the constitution. And I think he will not do. HARRIS: If elections do go forward, Schroeder is expected to be voted out of office. Polls show his popularity has fallen, especially since his party lost a crucial state election in May in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany's most populous state. In his speech to parliament, Schroeder publicly blamed splits within his party for losing that and other local elections. He said he would campaign now with all his energy and strength. Many people in Germany are wondering why he doesn't just resign. Emily Harris, NPR News, Berlin.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has arranged to lose a vote of confidence in the German parliament. The maneuver offers a chance to dissolve the country's parliament and call the early elections in September that Schroeder has urged.

Der deutsche Bundeskanzler Gerhard Schröder hat sich darauf eingestellt, die Vertrauensfrage im deutschen Parlament zu verlieren. Das Manöver bietet die Möglichkeit, das Parlament aufzulösen und die von Schröder geforderten vorgezogenen Neuwahlen im September anzusetzen.

德国总理格哈德·施罗德已经安排好在德国议会失去信任投票。这一策略提供了一个机会，可以解散该国的议会，并按照施罗德的要求在9月提前举行选举。

NEAL CONAN, host: After September the 11th, many Muslim-Americans said they faced increased scrutiny and discrimination as their religion and their culture became the subject of intense public debate. According to a recent Pew Research Center study on Muslims in America, 55 percent say it's hard to be a Muslim in the United States 10 years after. But the report also finds no signs that alienation has increased or additional support for extremism. We'd like to hear from Muslims in the audience today. What's changed for you since September the 11th? Our number: 800-989-8255. Email us: talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our website. That's at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. Scott Keeter joins us from the Pew Research Center, where's he's director of survey research. Nice to have you back. SCOTT KEETER: Very nice to be with you, Neal. NEAL CONAN, host: And interestingly, Muslim-Americans say - you found in your first report on Muslim-Americans four years ago that most were mainstream and moderate, and you show no change to that. SCOTT KEETER: That's right. We were interested in taking another look at this population, especially as the anniversary, the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches. And, of course, in the interim, there have been several incidents of either actual attacks by homegrown Muslims, or thwarted terrorist attacks. And we wondered if we could see any registration, either of increased support for extremism in the Muslim-American community or greater concern about extremism. And so we wanted to go back to this population. And we had other questions that we wanted to ask that we didn't have time to ask when we first surveyed them in 2007. NEAL CONAN, host: And interestingly, there is - a significant minority do see support for extremism in their community, but it is a significant minority. SCOTT KEETER: Yes. It's a little hard to know how to put the numbers into context. Sixty percent of Muslim-Americans who we interviewed said that they are either very or somewhat concerned about the possible rise of Islamic extremism in the U.S. But 21 percent say they actually think there is at least a fair amount of extremism in the Muslim-American community. You know, that's not a majority, but it's not zero, either. We asked some other questions about this, as well, to try to gauge, you know, how Muslim-Americans are navigating both the scrutiny that they're receiving and their own concerns about terrorism. SCOTT KEETER: One of the interesting things that we found is that a significant number of them, almost half, 48 percent, say they don't think that Muslim leaders in the United States have done as much as they should to speak out against extremists in the Muslim community. On the other hand, a majority of the people we talked with said they did think that the Muslim-American community is cooperating enough with law enforcement efforts to investigate extremism. NEAL CONAN, host: It's interesting. You said 21 percent of Muslim-Americans say there's a great deal or a fair amount of support for extremism in their own community. That is half the number in the general population who think there's support for extremism in Muslim-American communities. The rest of us think there's a lot more than the Muslims do. SCOTT KEETER: That's right. We asked a number of the questions in this survey of the general public to try to get a sense of whether the public and Muslim-Americans have parallel views. In some cases, they may. But in this case, the general public sees much more extremism in the Muslim-American community. And a significant number of people in the general public think that extremism is increasing. Whereas when we asked Muslim-Americans do you think that there is growing support here, most of them said no. NEAL CONAN, host: And then on the more subjective, often, matters, significant numbers report being looked at with suspicion and being called offensive names. I don't think that's too subjective. Twenty-one percent report being singled out by airport security, 13 percent being singled out by other law enforcement. Yet, interestingly, there is a big growth in the number who say that U.S. government anti-terrorism policies are sincere. SCOTT KEETER: Yes. There are a couple of things that changed over the course of four years since we first did this study. One of them is that sense, that American foreign policy, in terms of terrorism around the world is legitimate. Now, we're still not talking about a majority, but, basically, Muslim-Americans are evenly divided on that question, whereas in 2007, they overwhelming did not think that the war - so-called war on terrorism was a sincere effort. SCOTT KEETER: But that goes along, I think, with the change in feelings about the political leadership in the country. In 2007, the vast majority of Muslim-Americans, nearly 70 percent, disapproved of the job that George W. Bush was doing as president. An even higher percentage this time say that they approve of the job that Barack Obama is doing as president. SCOTT KEETER: So we certainly have more of a sense of political comfort right now among Muslim-Americans than we did four years ago, and that seems to be reflected in at least some attitudes towards policies. NEAL CONAN, host: We want to get some listeners involved in the conversation. We want to hear from the Muslim-Americans in our audience today. What's changed for you since 9/11? 800-989-8255. Email: talk@npr.org. Wale(ph) is with us from Kansas City. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. WALE: Yes, yes. Very good. Thank you very much. Well, in terms of what's - so I'm a Muslim-American. I'm originally Egyptian-American. I grew up here in the U.S. my entire life. And so, obviously, I consider myself American through and through, culturally and otherwise. And I have to say, you know, in terms of what's changed for me is, you know, I - just to give you a simple example, my wife wears the hijab, or the, you know, the head scarf, or whatever term you like to use. NEAL CONAN, host: Mm-hmm. WALE: And I got to tell you, it's - you know, just to go out to dinner sometimes is very interesting, because, you know, you get a lot of stares. You get a lot of looks, and some people are just flat-out rude. And, you know, it's - you just get a lot of unwanted attention, and I think it's increased, more so. And, in a way, I kind of don't blame people, in a way, because the media is - in my opinion, there's a constant barrage on scaring people, on - people get scared of Muslims like me, and I'm a working physician here, who's a normal guy with a family. WALE: And the thing is - just to give you an example - you had a recent Republican debate, okay, and you had Newt Gingrich and you had that gentleman, Mr. Cain, from Godfather's Pizza. So they were on the stage, and each of them - and maybe someone else I forgot - said that they would public - or they would make a Muslim-American take a loyalty oath to work in their administration. WALE: Now, I don't know about anybody else, but, to me, that's an incredible statement. I don't know how, in a mainstream fashion, you can publicly say you would make a religious group that is American take a loyalty oath and treat them differently than you would any other religious groups. I think that's an incredible statement. And I think things like that, as well as many other things, scare people. And I don't know how that can be helpful when you're talking about this issue. NEAL CONAN, host: I believe that was Herman Cain who made that remark, about a few months ago, I do believe it was. And as - Wale, as you go out in your community, though, as there are more Muslim-Americans - and this is a growing percentage of the American population - as more women wear the head scarf, clearly people are going to get used to it. WALE: Well, I hope so. I mean, I think there are two things here, actually. So one thing that I'm often told is, well, look. Other religious groups are going through the same thing. Catholics went through the same thing. Jews - those of the Jewish faith earlier in the century, they went through the same thing. So, in many ways, you just have to pay your dues. So - and at some point, yes, like you mentioned, people will get used to it. That's fine. On the other hand, I would say this: I don't want to get rounded up in a camp one day, all right? And when I hear these statements being made publicly in a mainstream fashion, I have to tell you, it worries me. I just want to have a family and work. I don't want to be victimized because of what leaders are saying, which is outrageous - which are, at times, outrageous. So I really don't know how to feel about that, to tell you the truth. NEAL CONAN, host: Well, thanks very much for the call. Appreciate it. WALE: Thank you. NEAL CONAN, host: Scott Keeter? SCOTT KEETER: Yes, Neal. You know, there are a couple of interesting things there. One is that we find that a majority of Muslim women that we spoke with said that they do wear the hijab or the head cover at least some of the time when they're out in public. And so it is fairly common, and it hasn't declined over the four years since we first surveyed them. SCOTT KEETER: But on this question of assimilation, we devoted quite a bit of attention to that in this study. We asked American Muslims if they feel that Muslims who come to the United States from overseas want to adopt American customs and blend in, as it were. Or do they want to be distinct from American society? And the majority, 56 percent, said that Muslims want to assimilate. And we find it - in fact, when you look at things like friendship patterns, that most Muslim-Americans have non-Muslim friends. In fact, many of them have lots of non-Muslims friends. And in terms of fidelity to American values, especially getting ahead through hard work, Muslim-Americans are more likely to say that one can get ahead in this country if you work hard. SCOTT KEETER: And so this is a population that, for the most part, has come to the U.S., like a lot of other immigrant groups, and attempted to fit in in its own way to American culture and society. NEAL CONAN, host: We're talking with Scott Keeter, director of survey research at the Pew Research Center, and one of those who worked on the report on Muslim-Americans that's just out. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR News. Let's go next to Deema(ph), Deema with us from Toledo. DEEMA: Yes, hi. I'm a big fan of the show, a long-time listener. Thank you for having me on your show. NEAL CONAN, host: Thanks for the kind words. DEEMA: I was listening before, and I could not listen to the whole conversation when I was on hold for the previous caller. And I'm a Muslim lady that wears hijab. And I agree with him. I hate to be labeled by that, sort of, label. And wearing the hijab and going out every day, it makes it harder with the hijab day by day when I listen to the news. I started not listening to the news for some time. It's just - when I open and, you know, when I watch the news, CNN, Fox News, whatever, MSNBC, and you listen to all these comments, and I'm just like, why? Why are your doing this? And it gets to me. DEEMA: Like, the second day when I'm going out, I was like, ah, I hope they didn't watch that show. Oh, I hope they didn't watch this. It gets to me sometimes, and I'm, kind of a very friendly person. And when I go out, like to the supermarket or anywhere, I smile when I see somebody staring at me, and I say hello. And most of the people, they say hello back and they would ask me, how are you doing? And I would say, I'm fine. How are you? And I try to reach out to people, but the media is not helping out here. It's very - sadly, they're labeling us with the terrorists, and I hate to get blamed for something I didn't do. I know who did the September 11 were Muslims, but I hate the whole Islam nation get to be blamed for it. DEEMA: And it worries me for the long term. I have little kids that (unintelligible) - what's going to happen to them later on. I think about it all the time. And I always tell them just to be patient and be polite and try to do a change, like by going out, talking about it, express your feelings about it. It helps a lot when you talk about it with your friends, with your neighbors, with your family. Express your feelings, say what your concerns. But it does worry me a lot and, especially around this time, too. NEAL CONAN, host: Sure. The next couple of days could be pretty tough. DEEMA: Kind of. One time, my son came from school crying. He was in - we used to live in Minnesota at that time. And he said, mom, I hate to be blamed for it. He was a fourth-grader. And, mom, this was what happened today at school. This was the books we read. And imagine all the kids in my class were reading about Muslims and they were thinking, I'm from there, then I'm a terrorist. It's been very hard. NEAL CONAN, host: Deema, thanks for the call. I hope it gets better. DEEMA: Thank you. SCOTT KEETER: We... NEAL CONAN, host: Go ahead, Scott Keeter. SCOTT KEETER: That was a very - the things that I just heard from Deema are very, very reminiscent of things that we heard from our respondents. We ask an open-ended question in this survey: You know, what's the most important problem facing Muslim-Americans? And, you know, if you ask that question to almost anyone in the U.S., the first thing you're going to hear is jobs and the economy. We did not hear that. We heard stereotyping, being considered to be a terrorist and ignorance, the way people think about us. SCOTT KEETER: Two-thirds, almost three-fourths said that they felt that these were things that are most problematic for Muslim-Americans. And yet, at the same time, we found that almost half of Muslim-Americans said that they think the American people are basically friendly toward them. Thirty-two percent said the American people are neutral towards them, and only 16 percent characterized Americans as fundamentally unfriendly. SCOTT KEETER: And when we've interviewed the general public on the subject of Islam and Muslim-Americans, what we have found is that most Americans have a complicated set of attitudes. But we definitely can see that the more people know about Islam or the more that people have had an experience with Muslims in their communities or as friends or otherwise, the more favorable their attitudes are towards them. NEAL CONAN, host: Here's an email we had from Ridwan(ph) in Toledo: I'm currently a 26-year-old student in medical school. When 9/11 happened, I was a senior in high school that was just starting to form an identity. I had begun to take an immense amount of pride in being an American. But in an instant, I felt kicked out of the American mainstream society. Never did I think that I would see the day where presidential candidates found it politically advantageous to bash Islam and play up fears that we American Muslims were crafting some sort of grand conspiracy to implement Sharia Law. NEAL CONAN, host: The last 10 years have taught me that while you can't judge a book by its cover, it seems fair game to judge an entire religion off a few Quranic verses taken out of context. I don't want ignorant bigots to play a role in damaging my American self-identity, but sometimes, it gets difficult to ignore their hateful rants. NEAL CONAN, host: And, Scott Keeter, I suspect you to be taking this poll for sometime. SCOTT KEETER: Yes. I think we're going to continue to be interested in it, and we certainly, you know, are mindful that, you know, the issue is not just what Muslims think, but what the general public thinks. And we will continue to monitor that. We will. NEAL CONAN, host: We've posted a link to the Pew's study on Muslim-Americans. Go to npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. Scott Keeter, thanks for your time. SCOTT KEETER: My pleasure, Neal. NEAL CONAN, host: Scott Keeter, director of survey research at Pew Research Center, with us from their offices here in Washington. Tomorrow, TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY. Ira Flatow will be here with new research that looks in detail at fossils from an ancient hominid. Is it a human ancestor, or an evolutionary dead end? That's tomorrow on TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY. And this TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan, in Washington.

Data from the Pew Research Center shows that 55 percent of Muslim Americans believe that it is harder to be a Muslim in the United States since 9/11. Pew's director of survey research Scott Keeter shares the results of the Center's Muslim American Survey. Read the results of the Pew Research Center study on Muslims In America.

Daten des Pew Research Center zeigen, dass 55 Prozent der muslimischen Amerikaner glauben, dass es seit dem 11. September 2001 schwieriger ist, in den Vereinigten Staaten Muslim zu sein. Scott Keeter, Leiter der Pew-Umfrageforschung, erläutert die Ergebnisse der Umfrage des Zentrums zu muslimischen Amerikanern. Lesen Sie die Ergebnisse der Studie des Pew-Forschungszentrums über Muslime in Amerika.

皮尤研究中心的数据显示，55%的美国穆斯林认为，自9 · 11 事件以来，美国穆斯林的处境更加艰难了。皮尤中心的调查研究主任斯科特·基特分享了该中心针对美国穆斯林的调查结果。参阅皮尤研究中心关于美国穆斯林的研究结果。

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Even before taking office, President-elect Donald Trump has redefined the presidential relationship with the media. He has verbally attacked individual reporters and has bypassed the press altogether through Twitter. Trump's new press secretary Sean Spicer says he doesn't expect that tweeting to stop. SEAN SPICER: It is absolutely fascinating. And it makes every day, every hour just unbelievable because you know that you're having a conversation with the American people, and they can have it back with him, and he's not having to put everything through the filter of the mainstream media. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: That's something that mainstream media needs to get used to, says Ari Fleischer. He was President George W. Bush's first press secretary. And while the relationship between any press corps and the president is inherently adversarial. Fleischer says this is something new. ARI FLEISCHER: There's a big difference between adversarial and hostile, and this is hostile. We've never seen a candidate for office and now a president-elect of the country who the press just has it in for so much. We've also never seen it be returned this much. Donald Trump particularly enjoys going after the press, and that's why I call it a double-barreled hostile relationship. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Trump hasn't had a press conference since his election. One has finally been announced for January 11. But beyond that, his spokesman Sean Spicer says, quote, "business as usual is over." You were the White House press secretary. It was your job to run the daily press briefings. Do you see value in them? ARI FLEISCHER: I do see value in the briefing, but I'd like to make two changes. One, I would take it off the air as a live event. It should be embargoed, and so it'll be less of a TV show and more of an old-fashioned actual substantive policy briefing. And then secondly, I would democratize the room. There are 750 reporters credentialed to cover the White House, and there's only 49 seats in that room. Forty-nine seats really go to the mainstream media largely. I would update that and give those seats on a rotating basis to an entirely new group of reporters in addition to the press corps - business press, foreign journalists, social media day with the left dot-coms and the right dot-coms. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: As you know, this is a president-elect who likes to use social media - that's an understatement. And you have praised his ability to go around the press and go directly to the American people by using Twitter in particular. How will President Trump then be held accountable if what he says isn't scrutinized or challenged? ARI FLEISCHER: Frankly, I'm kind of stunned at how much people focus on the fact that he tweets. Every president has taken advantage of technology since time immemorial. Kind of wonder if the FDR press corps used to say, do you think Roosevelt's going to continue to use that radio thing? This is the modern world. And President Obama showed the way. He was really the first president of the social media era. He went around the White House press corps frequently, things that George W. Bush when I was there never could have done because it would have been dismissed as government propaganda. And presidents now have the ability to get a message out going around old gatekeepers. So why should Donald Trump change that? RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I think the concern is if he were to disband the daily press briefing, or as soon as he is in office to be less likely to sit down for one-on-one interviews. ARI FLEISCHER: I would criticise him if he were to do that. But as his incoming press secretary Sean Spicer said, the briefing will continue. And based on Donald Trump's actions, I see no reason to believe that he would cut back from the amount of interviews he's done with the mainstream media. Now, the news conference is different. News conferences take on a pack mentality, and it really has become an aggressive game of gotcha (ph). And I blame a lot of that on live TV and on press bias, but I would not hold regular news conferences if I were Donald Trump or really any anybody. But they do need to have one-on-one regular interviews with hard-hitting reporters. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: What's the role of a press secretary in a Trump administration in which the president will say what he wants to whomever he wants whenever he wants on Twitter maybe even while the press secretary's doing a briefing? ARI FLEISCHER: Yeah, I don't think it's very much different from the role of press secretary in prior administrations. It's to take questions when the president is not or cannot and elaborate on what the president is thinking, to explain what the president is thinking. I think it's more challenging with Donald Trump than any previous press secretary because of Donald Trump's reliance on Twitter, and Donald Trump's just letting it zing when he wants to. But as always, the trick for a press secretary and the most important job is to know what the president is thinking. So regardless of the form in which the president says something or tweets it, the press secretary can elaborate on it. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Ari Fleischer, former White House press secretary under President George W. Bush, thanks so much for your time. ARI FLEISCHER: Thank you, Rachel.

Ari Fleischer, former White House press secretary under President George W. Bush, talks to Rachel Martin about President-elect Donald Trump's relationship with the press.

Ari Fleischer, ehemaliger Pressesprecher des Weißen Hauses unter Präsident George W. Bush, spricht mit Rachel Martin über die Beziehung des designierten Präsidenten Donald Trump zur Presse.

阿里·弗莱舍曾任布什总统白宫新闻秘书，她与雷切尔·马丁谈论当选总统唐纳德·特朗普与媒体的关系。

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST: In Virginia, there is a cold, damp relic of American ingenuity called the Crozet Tunnel. It was built in the 1850s for the Blue Ridge railroad. For a time, it was the longest tunnel in America, nearly a mile long, under Afton Mountain. Well, today, it's abandoned. But for years, local officials wanted to turn it into a walking path. Well, now it looks like that'll happen. ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST: Reporter Eric Mennel visited the tunnel before it's a change. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: The entrance to the Crozet Tunnel looks like a setting out of "The Lord of the Rings." The stone archway is about 20 feet tall by 16 feet wide. Clouds form below the arch because of the cooler temperature inside. And it's covered with algae and graffiti. One says: Find Your Happy Place. Not sure who would do that here. Stay Away. Yeah, just stay away. OK, that seems more appropriate. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: Did you hear something in the tunnel? CALEB HATFIELD: Yeah. It was an invitation. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: All right, here we go. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: That's my friend and co-spelunker, Caleb Hatfield. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: The Crozet Tunnel was Virginia's first major attempt to build through the Blue Ridge Mountains. For a nation expanding, this was to be a gateway to the West. CALEB HATFIELD: The pathway has turned to just rubble. The walls have turned to concrete on one side. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: Less than 100 yards into the tunnel, the natural light disappears and we're left with only our headlamps and two small flashlights. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: All right, so we've come upon a wall. CALEB HATFIELD: It looks kind of like something you'd see in a World War II movie. The Nazis have dug an underground bunker and this is like the security access point, with one two-foot-by-two-foot round tube. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: A drainage pipe, to be exact. When the tunnel was decommissioned in the 1940s, there was a plan to store natural gas inside. But that never happened. Now, the 16-foot long pipe is all that separates wanderers from the main cavern of the tunnel. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: It's not entirely inviting. But this is what we came here to do. CALEB HATFIELD: Yeah. All right man, here we go. Oh wow, a rush of wind. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: Dude, I'm not feeling good about this. CALEB HATFIELD: Oh, it's fine. CALEB HATFIELD: Look at the (unintelligible) ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: And that's what it sounds like when you get water inside your recorder. Luckily, that's the only thing that died inside the pipe. And my cell phone had a recording app, so we trekked on. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: All right. Let's keep going. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: The belly of the tunnel is absolutely astonishing. Blasted rock along the sides and ceiling glistens, as if spattered with diamonds. The tunnel was built on the backs of Irish immigrants and slaves. Some died during construction. With such intense echoes, you're never really sure if it's your own voice bouncing back or theirs. But that didn't keep Caleb and me from having a little fun. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: We're just going to yell as loud as we can in the middle of this mountain and see what it sounds like. One, two, three. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: That was pretty cool. CALEB HATFIELD: Yeah, I like that. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: We made our way towards the exit, through more pipes and more water. It was an amazing experience, feeling both totally isolated from the world and connected to all the tunnelers that had come before us. But it's an experience that won't be available for much longer. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: Nelson County, the county in Virginia where one entrance to the tunnel sits, plans to build a parking lot nearby and a safer trail that will, eventually, go through the entirety of the tunnel. And while much of the danger will disappear, and the echoes become muddled together, you can't help but think that nature will somehow find a way to keep tunnelers on their toes. ERIC MENNEL, BYLINE: For NPR News, I'm Eric Mennel. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: You're listening to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News.

In Virginia's Blue Ridge Mountains, there's a long-abandoned tunnel. The Crozet Tunnel was completed in the late 1800s and at the time was the longest rail tunnel in the world, nearly a mile long. In the 1940s, the tunnel was decommissioned. Now, it's experiencing a comeback of sorts.

In Virginias Blauen Bergen gibt es einen längst verlassenen Tunnel. Der Crozet-Tunnel wurde Ende des 19. Jahrhunderts fertiggestellt und war zu dieser Zeit der längste Eisenbahntunnel der Welt, fast eine Meile lang. In den 1940er Jahren wurde der Tunnel stillgelegt. Jetzt erlebt es eine Art der Rückkehr .

在弗吉尼亚的蓝岭山脉上，有一条废弃已久的隧道。克罗泽特隧道建于19世纪末，长达一英里，是当时世界上最长的铁路隧道。20世纪40年代，该隧道报废。现在，它正在得到修缮，以期再度投入运行。

GUY RAZ, Host: Eleanor Beardsley has the story from UNESCO's home base in Paris. ELEANOR BEARDSLEY: Mark Richmond is UNESCO's global coordinator of HIV/AIDS projects. He says there is a desperate need for better sex education in schools. M: Only about 40 percent of young people between 15 and 24 have a clear and accurate understanding of how HIV and AIDS is transmitted. And that's appalling, especially since 45 percent of all new infection are among young people between 15 and 24. And in that circumstance, we really have to try to do something to improve the knowledge level and the awareness. ELEANOR BEARDSLEY: A draft copy of the guidelines placed on UNESCO's Web site prompted an outcry in some sections of the media. "U.N. Report Advocates Teaching Masturbation to 5-year-olds" was the headline on foxnews.com. "New UNESCO Sex Education Guidelines Call on Children to Promote Abortions," announced a lifenews.com article. Richmond calls such allegations false, and a distortion of the facts to grab headlines. However, he does admit the guidelines recommend starting sex education early. M: It's no good teaching young people after they've started becoming sexually active. To have a comprehensive approach to this issue, you can't start teaching this at the age of 12. You need to be starting earlier, letting children get a better understanding of things. It has to be, obviously, modulated according to their age. ELEANOR BEARDSLEY: Chad Hills is a sexual health analyst with the Christian group Focus on the Family. He says his group has a number of objections to the guidelines, and not just about sex education for young children. Hills says the main problem is that UNESCO is attempting to treat the symptoms of sexual ills instead of attacking the root cause: behavior. M: The safest and healthiest context for sexuality is within a faithful, monogamous, heterosexual relationship, called marriage, that lasts a lifetime. When we undercut that message by handing out condoms and telling the lie that you can go out and have safe sex, just wear a condom or just use birth control, you know, nothing could be further from the truth. ELEANOR BEARDSLEY: For NPR News, I'm Eleanor Beardsley in Paris.

Every year, nearly 3 million people across the globe are infected with HIV, and half of them are younger than 25. The United Nations' cultural arm, UNESCO, is trying to cut those numbers — and reach other health goals — by creating new guidelines for sex education. The guidelines won't be finalized until October, but they're already kicking up controversy.

Jedes Jahr infizieren sich weltweit fast 3 Millionen Menschen mit HIV, und die Hälfte von ihnen ist jünger als 25 Jahre. Der Kulturarm der Vereinten Nationen, die UNESCO, versucht, diese Zahlen zu senken – und andere Gesundheitsziele zu erreichen –, indem sie neue Leitlinien für die Sexualerziehung erstellt. Die Richtlinien werden erst im Oktober fertiggestellt, aber sie sorgen bereits jetzt für Kontroversen.

每年，全球有近300万人感染艾滋病毒，其中一半的感染者不到25岁。联合国的文化机构-联合国教科文组织正试图通过制定新的性教育指导方针来减少这些数字，并实现其他健康目标。该指导方针要到10月份才会最终确定，但这些指导方针已经引起了争议。

STEVE INSKEEP, host: In the coming weeks you can also expect plenty of debate over North Korea. The Bush administration claimed a diplomatic success this week. North Korea agreed to limit its nuclear program. The terms of that deal have some conservatives asking if the U.S. simply gave in. And some analysts say North Korea will remain a member of the nuclear club. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Here's NPR national security correspondent Jackie Northam. JACKIE NORTHAM: One of the most striking things about the new agreement with North Korea is its similarity to one hammered out by the Clinton administration in 1994. Both deals include a series of steps aimed at dismantling the country's nuclear weapons program, such as a halt to production of plutonium, and allowing international inspectors back into the country. JACKIE NORTHAM: There is another similarity. That's the suspicion that North Korea will not abide by its commitments. Gary Samore of the Council on Foreign Relations says it's extremely unlikely that Pyongyang will give up the nuclear weapons it already has. Mr. GARY SAMORE (Council on Foreign Relations): I think the North Korean leadership has believed for a long time that some limited nuclear weapons capability is essential for their survival. Now, they are prepared to reach limits on their nuclear program in exchange for various kinds of compensation, but I think it's unlikely that they would actually give up whatever nuclear weapons they have. JACKIE NORTHAM: Jim Walsh, an international security expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, says once a country tests a nuclear weapon, as North Korea did in October, the equation changes in that country. Mr. JIM WALSH (MIT): The military has an interest and the scientists have an interest. And it becomes, I think, a stickier matter to give up those weapons. If you build a whole fleet of nuclear weapons and you integrate them into your force structure and you develop a doctrine for them, each step further down that road, it becomes harder and harder to turn back. JACKIE NORTHAM: Many Analysts say that the U.S. knows or should know that North Korea is unlikely to give up its weapons. And so by extension, the U.S. tacitly accepts that North Korea will remain a nuclear weapons state. Acquiring a nuclear capability may have given North Korea a stronger hand at the negotiating table, a fact that will not be lost on Iran. JACKIE NORTHAM: Earlier this week, Britain's Financial Times newspaper reported that a study by the European Union found that Iran will be able to develop the capacity to enrich enough uranium for a nuclear bomb, and that the main obstacles hampering that effort are technical rather than any sanctions imposed by the international community. JACKIE NORTHAM: Ted Galen Carpenter with the Cato Institute says Iran may be pushing ahead with its nuclear program, just as North Korea did. Mr. TED GALEN CARPENTER (Cato Institute): Both North Korea and Iran may be determined to become members of the global nuclear weapons club. And if that is their determination, then short of using military force, we have no alternative but to accept them as members of that club and rely on the traditional policy of deterrence to prevent them from doing anything rash. JACKIE NORTHAM: Carpenter says until now countries that have become nuclear powers have become more sober and responsible about their new strength. Mr. TED GALEN CARPENTER (Cato Institute): Before it became a nuclear weapon state, Chinese leaders from Mao Zedong on down made extraordinarily reckless statements about fighting wars, including nuclear wars. Once China acquired its own deterrent and a greater sense of security, it became a more responsible player in the international community. India and Pakistan seem to have exhibited more restraint toward each other and toward other potential adversaries once they acquired a nuclear weapons capability. JACKIE NORTHAM: But Carpenter says no one can be sure North Korea or Iran would act the same way. Samore, with the Council on Foreign Relations, says it makes sense to continue to try to prevent these countries from acquiring nuclear weapons, or at least try to delay the acquisition of such weapons. Mr. GARY SAMORE (Council on Foreign Relations): Very often in the proliferation business, the best you can do is buy time. So I think we still have options, in the case of Iran, to delay. And you might delay for years; and who knows, there could be some further developments even within Iran that might make a new leadership less committed to acquiring a nuclear weapons capability. JACKIE NORTHAM: Samore says the Iranians may yet be willing to suspend their enrichment program, if that works to Iran's benefit. JACKIE NORTHAM: Jackie Northam, NPR News, Washington.

U.S. officials cite six-party talks on North Korea's nuclear program as a diplomatic victory. But many observers believe North Korea will never disarm. Analysts say the outcome of the negotiations may influence Iran's thinking on nuclear weapons.

Die USA-Beamte haben die Sechs Parteien-Gespräche über das nordkoreanische Atomprogramm als einen diplomatischen Triumph bezeichnet. Viele Beobachter glauben jedoch, dass Nordkorea niemals abrüsten wird. Analysten zufolge könnte das Ergebnis der Verhandlungendie Überlegungen des Irans in Bezug auf Atomwaffen beeinflussen.

美国官员称有关朝鲜核问题的六方会谈是一场外交胜利，但许多观察人士认为朝鲜永远不会解除武装。分析人士表示，谈判结果可能会影响伊朗对核武器的看法。

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Since the existence of a whistleblower complaint became known, each day has brought enough news to fill a week. Today was no different. First, a reminder of how we got here. It's been eight days since the existence of the complaint became public. BRIAN WILLIAMS: Day 974 of the Trump administration. Once again, we have breaking news tonight centering around that explosive whistleblower complaint from... ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: One day later, some of the specific allegations leaked - allegations that President Trump pressured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to look for dirt on former Vice President Joe Biden and his son. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: President Trump has already admitted he spoke with Zelenskiy about Joe Biden and his son Hunter. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It was largely the fact that we don't want our people, like Vice President Biden and his son, creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: As more information about the phone call and the complaint came out, congressional Democrats, including Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, escalated their talk about impeachment. By Tuesday, the speaker, who has avoided any and all talk on impeachment, shifted her position. NANCY PELOSI: The actions of the Trump presidency revealed a dishonorable fact of the president's betrayal of his oath of office, betrayal of our national security and betrayal of the integrity of our elections. Therefore, today I'm announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: As House Democrats spoke out in support of that inquiry, the White House released its account of that conversation between President Trump and the Ukrainian president. Predictably, reactions to that summary fell along party lines. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham saw nothing wrong with the conversation. LINDSEY GRAHAM: From my point of view, to impeach any president over a phone call like this would be insane. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Democrat Hakeem Jeffries had a different take. HAKEEM JEFFRIES: To commence an investigation of the Biden family to dig up political dirt in order to bolster the president's electoral prospects in 2020, that is textbook abuse of power, and the transcripts have become exhibit A in that regard.

Eight days after the public found out about a whistleblower's complaint regarding the president, the acting director of national intelligence testified before the House Intelligence Committee.

Acht Tage nachdem die Öffentlichkeit von der Beschwerde eines Whistleblowers über den Präsidenten erfahren hatte, sagte der amtierende Direktor des nationalen Geheimdienstes vor dem Geheimdienstausschuss des Repräsentantenhauses aus.

在公众发现对总统的举报8天后，代理国家情报总监在众议院情报委员会作证。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: On a related subject for just a few minutes, as you may know, conditions in Puerto Rico have spurred thousands of people to leave to seek opportunities on the mainland. Now there are disturbing allegations about how some transplants to the state of Georgia have been treated when they tried to apply for driver's licenses. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: A lawsuit was filed this week in federal court on behalf of a man who moved from Puerto Rico to Southeast Georgia in 2017. He applied for a driver's license after waiting at the required 30 days. The man, Kenneth Caban Gonzalez, says that an inspector from the Georgia Department of Driver Services confiscated his documents and asked him a number of trivia questions such as, who is Roberto Clemente, and what is the name of the frog native only to Puerto Rico? He alleges he also asked trick questions such as, where is Caguas beach? There is no beach in Caguas. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: The lawsuit accuses the state of violating the Civil Rights Act by holding residents of Puerto Rico to more stringent requirements than it does transplants from other U.S. states. The advocacy group Latino Justice is litigating the case along with the Southern Center for Human Rights. And with us now is Gerry Weber. He's a senior attorney at the Southern Center. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Welcome. Thanks so much for joining us. GERRY WEBER: Thank you for having me. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So Mr. Caban Gonzalez's complaint is particularly disturbing because it says that not only was he subjected to these questions but that his identity documents were confiscated and that he was arrested for forgery. But the first question I would have for you is if you have knowledge of whether other former residents of Puerto Rico who are U.S. citizens had a similar experience. GERRY WEBER: Yes, absolutely. And you can look online, and you can see some of the incidents where people were both arrested for their documents, which are perfectly legitimate documents, and then had those documents seized. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So how many in total? I mean, how many of these cases have you been made aware of so far? GERRY WEBER: Well, we have several instances, and the Department of Driver Services has not been very forthcoming and transparent in our requests for records about the scope of the problem. But in litigation, we'll find that out. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So has the Department of Driver Services responded to the lawsuit? Or have they made any response to the facts that have been presented to them so far? GERRY WEBER: They have not. We have made open records requests. Recently, we heard that Governor Kemp was going to be calling for an investigation into the discrimination. But we haven't had confirmation from DDS about that. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: And we know that the governor of Puerto Rico has specifically reached out to his counterpart, the governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, to ask him to look into this. Do we know any more about what the - what - you know, what document were they working from, or what legal authority do they claim to do this? GERRY WEBER: Well, they created a directive in 2017, right after Puerto Rico had suffered some terrible tragedies. And so people were moving to Georgia. And Georgia issued a directive that created this set of hoops and hurdles for Puerto Rican American citizens who come to Georgia seeking a new home to get a driver's license. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: But why? I mean, do we have any sense of what the motivation was? GERRY WEBER: We don't know the why. We do know the effect. It bears a striking resemblance to the Jim Crow literacy tests. I mean, it's 43 questions ranging from geography to culture to agriculture. I would challenge any citizen of any state in Georgia to pass a test of 43 questions about their state. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So before we let you go, could you just describe for people, you know, what it is - because some people might not find it upsetting. They say, well, you know, maybe they're just trying to determine whether the residents of Puerto Rico who have moved are really from Puerto Rico as opposed to from some other Spanish-speaking place. Could you just describe for people again why this - in your view, this violates the law and is offensive? GERRY WEBER: Well, Puerto Rican American citizens have the same right to transfer their lives, move to another state and have a driver's license as Texans or Ohioans. It's a matter of federal law. It's a matter of the federal Constitution. And Puerto Rican citizens in Georgia are subject to a different set of rules that are much more restrictive. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That's Gerry Weber. He's a senior attorney at the Southern Center. He's also a professor at Emory University School of Law. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Mr. Weber, thanks so much for talking with us today. GERRY WEBER: Thank you for having me.

NPR's Michel Martin talks with Gerry Weber, of the Southern Center for Human Rights, about a lawsuit filed on behalf of Puerto Ricans who've experienced difficulty obtaining driver's licenses.

Michel Martin von NPR spricht mit Gerry Weber von dem Südliche Zentrum für Menschenrechte (Southern Center for Human Rights) über eine Klage, die im Namen von Puertoricanern eingereicht wurde, die Schwierigkeiten hatten, einen Führerschein zu erhalten.

NPR新闻的米歇尔·马丁与南方人权中心的格里·韦伯就一个代表波多黎各人提起的诉讼进行了交谈，这些波多黎各人在获得驾照方面遇到了困难。

RENEE MONTAGNE, host: President Bush is in Stralsund, Germany for a largely ceremonial visit with Chancellor Angela Merkel. The president is on a six-day overseas trip, which includes the meeting of the G8 economic powers this weekend in St. Petersburg, Russia. This trip comes at a time when the U.S. and Europe are stressing diplomatic solutions to some vexing problems: the North Korean and Iranian nuclear programs, and the escalating violence in Middle East. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: NPR's Don Gonyea is traveling with the president and joins us now. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: And Don, you're in the former East Germany. DON GONYEA reporting: Mm-hmm. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: What's the agenda for the president there? GONYEA: Well, the president always likes to go to places that were once under the rule of Communism and talk about democracy. And the former East Germany certainly provides him an opportunity to do that. But this visit is really all about the new and very real friendship between President Bush and the new German Chancellor Merkel. And Renee, I have to tell you, to help cement the friendship Mr. Bush was presented with the traditional and ceremonial barrel of herring during a welcome ceremony in Stralsund today. It was a small barrel. I'm not sure when any one last presented you with a barrel of herring as a gift, but the president was most appreciative today. GONYEA: And really, let me add, Merkel - Chancellor Merkel can really be seen as the president's best new friend on the continent, given the pending departure of Tony Blair in Britain and the recent departure of Silvio Berlusconi in Italy, both very close allies. The White House now views Germany as a very critical component of U.S.-European relations. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: This, of course, visit in East Germany comes in advance of the G8 Summit in Russia. And talking about relationships... GONYEA: Mm-hmm. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: ...what about President Bush and President Vladimir Putin? GONYEA: It is a relationship that's gotten more difficult since the president and Putin held their first meeting. It was in Slovenia almost exactly five years ago. That's when Mr. Bush declared that he looked into Putin's eyes and had gotten a sense of his soul. Well, these days the White House insists it's still a close relationship, but it also complains about Russian backsliding on democratic reforms. GONYEA: Just a few months back, Vice President Cheney was in Vilnius, Lithuania. And there he delivered a really blistering critique along these lines of Russia. And yesterday Putin, in a U.S. TV interview, responded that it was like an unsuccessful hunting shot from Cheney. You know, we all know what he was referring to there. So there's more than a bit of tension, and all of that hangs over this weekend's summit. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: Will, though, the U.S. confront Russia on these issues at this meeting in St. Petersburg? GONYEA: Perhaps a bit. But really look for the pressing crises in North Korea and Iran, and now in the middle - Mid East, with the capture of those Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, and the retaliation by Israel. Look for all of that to dominate. These are difficult issues, and they will really be the primary talk of this summit. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: Don, thanks very much. GONYEA: My pleasure. RENEE MONTAGNE, host: NPR's White House correspondent Don Gonyea. He's traveling with President Bush in Germany.

President Bush visits Germany, before flying to Russia for the G-8 summit. He is consulting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a key U.S. ally. The Bush administration is counting on Germany's support for a flurry of recent diplomatic initiatives to defuse problems like the nuclear program in Iran.

Präsident Bush besucht Deutschland, bevor er zum G-8-Gipfel nach Russland fliegt. Er berät sich mit der deutschen Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel, einer wichtigen Verbündeten der USA. Die Bush-Regierung erwartet Deutschlands Unterstützung für eine Vielzahl jüngsten diplomatischer Initiativen zur Entschärfung von Problemen wie dem Atomprogramm im Iran.

布什总统访问德国，然后飞往俄罗斯参加八国集团峰会。他正与美国的重要盟友德国总理安吉拉·默克尔进行磋商。布什政府指望德国支持最近一系列外交举措，旨在化解像伊朗核计划等问题。

ANDREA SEABROOK, host: One of those big social networking sites, Facebook, has attracted over 58 million members. MELODY KRAMER: This week, I quit Facebook - cold turkey. ANDREA SEABROOK, host: Commentator Melody Kramer is no longer one of them. MELODY KRAMER: I deleted all 1,281 of my co-workers, second-grade classmates and people who I don't know at all. I shut down my account completely. I'm 23, and I've been on Facebook since March of 2004, which makes me one of the Web site's earliest users. MELODY KRAMER: At first, I used it obsessively. Like most people that means more than once a day. If I had a free moment, I'd logged on to see whether my friends had updated their profiles. I'd sit alone scrolling through these updates and then run into someone at a coffee shop and have nothing to say because I already knew everything about them, and they knew everything about me. MELODY KRAMER: In November, I went to my five-year high school reunion and was not pleasantly surprised. Lauren(ph) became a model, Josh(ph) went to law school, Dina(ph) was a teacher. I hadn't talk to any of them since graduation, but I knew exactly what they were doing both now and last week. But lately, I'm overwhelmed. Facebook opened up to everyone, not just college students, and my co-workers started to join, which meant they now knew what I was doing when I wasn't at work. And as a rule: You can't not friend your co-workers because then they'll ask you the next day: But I thought we were friends. And you are friends but not the kind of friends who tell each other what they do outside of work. So now the people you work with can see what you did last night, and you're constantly worrying what people might say about what you did last night instead of actually doing anything tonight. And as a rule: So I quit. I became a 23-year-old (unintelligible). I've returned to how the world worked when I was 20, before I knew when my friends and co-workers were counting down the seconds to vacation or wistful or entering a complicated relationship. I'm hoping life will be a lot simpler now. People will be more mysterious now that I actually have to talk to them to find out their favorite books or hobbies or neurosis. I don't know when my college roommate goes to the supermarket, and I think I'm a better person for not knowing. In fact, you could say getting off a social network was the best thing I've done this week.

More than 58 million people have flocked to the social network Facebook, and about 250,000 new users sign up every day. But one longtime Facebook user has dropped out of the social networking site altogether.

Mehr als 58 Millionen Menschen strömen in das soziale Netzwerk Facebook, täglich melden sich rund 250.000 neue Nutzer an. Ein langjähriger Facebook-Nutzer hat sich jedoch ganz von dem sozialen Netzwerk abgewandt.

超过5800万人涌入社交网络Facebook，每天约有25万新用户注册。但一位Facebook的长期用户已经完全退出了社交网站。

DON GONYEA, HOST: This is WEEKEND EDITION from NPR News. I'm Don Gonyea sitting in for Rachel Martin. Tomorrow is the last day of the current Supreme Court session. And the legal community is awaiting decisions in two big cases still pending before the high court. DON GONYEA, HOST: One involves Obamacare and its requirement that health care plans include coverage for contraceptives, and the other speaks to labor organizing in the public sector. Joining us to set the stage on these potentially landmark cases is NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg. Hi, Nina. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: Nice to be here. DON GONYEA, HOST: So people who watch the court and people who care a lot about the fate of Obamacare have been on tenterhooks all year about one case in particular. It's Sebelius versus Hobby Lobby Stores. Tell us what it's all about. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: Well, you know, Obamacare requires that employers cover their employees with a basic, preventive healthcare package. And that includes contraception. Hobby Lobby objects on religious grounds, and Hobby Lobby is a for-profit corporation. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: The Affordable Care Act has exemptions for nonprofit, religious organizations and churches, etcetera. But it has no exemption for for-profit corporations. And Hobby Lobby says it has 16,000 employees, 500 craft stores. But it says it's offensive to its religious beliefs to include certain contraceptive practices in its coverage plan. DON GONYEA, HOST: So we've got one side that says it's about fairness for women and coverage of contraceptives. From the other side's point of view it's a defense of religious freedom. Is the court likely to really take on the conflict between those two big causes? NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: I don't see an easy way out. And in some ways, that's the problem for the court. Where do you draw the line? What about if you have religious objections to transfusions? What about if you have religious objections to child labor laws or civil rights laws? The status quo is that the Supreme Court has never found that a for-profit company gets to exempt itself from laws that apply to everyone. DON GONYEA, HOST: The arguments weren't all that long ago - March 25th, several of the justices asked the lawyers some questions, as they will, of course. Do we get any indication of the courts thinking from those exchanges back in March? NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: You know, if you were a betting person, based on the arguments, you would have to say that Hobby Lobby had a decent chance of prevailing in this case. But we've all learned, from some rather famous cases lately, don't put too many eggs in that basket. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: What was really interesting about the argument is all the women on this court were ferocious in their pretty clear view that you couldn't just exempt people, on religious grounds, from complying with contraception coverage. And they said, look, if you don't want to comply, then pay the fine. DON GONYEA, HOST: OK, Nina, in the time we have left, tell us about what's at stake in the other big decision that we're still waiting for, Harris versus Quinn. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: You know, this is one of those cases that could be a thunderbolt or a complete fizzle. Who knows? The court has, for over half a century, said, you don't have to join a union. But you do have to pay the union dues that cover the negotiating of the contract and in the administering of the contract because otherwise, you're a free rider on those members who are paying the dues. You're getting the benefits without paying for them. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: And this is a case that presents the question anew. And there are some conservative members of the Supreme Court who seem to want to revisit that principle of law. And if they do, it could drive a stake through the heart of the union movement in America. DON GONYEA, HOST: OK. Tomorrow's a big day. Thanks, Nina. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: Thank you.

The Supreme Court is expected to decide Monday whether healthcare plans must cover contraceptives, as legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg tells NPR's Don Gonyea.

Der Oberste Gerichtshof wird voraussichtlich am Montag entscheiden, ob die Gesundheitspläne Verhütungsmittel abdecken müssen, wie die Rechtskorrespondentin Nina Totenberg Don Gonyea von NPR sagte.

法律事务记者尼娜·托坦伯格告诉美国全国公共广播电台的唐·冈耶称，最高法院预计将在周一决定医疗保健计划是否必须涵盖避孕药具。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: And let's get the latest now from Egypt. That country saw a military coup last Wednesday. And five days since President Mohammed Morsi was removed, we're seeing some of the worst violence yet. At least 42 people died in a clash between protesters and security forces this morning. It was the deadliest single incident since protests erupted after the coup. Most of the dead are Muslim Brotherhood supporters of Morsi, but at least two police officers and a soldier were also killed. Hundreds of people were wounded. DAVID GREENE, HOST: The violence took place in front of the Republican Guard building where former President Morsi is reportedly being held. And NPR's Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson joins us on the line from Cairo to update us. And, Soraya, what is the understanding of what happened here, the worst outbreak of violence since the coup? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: Yes. It's the deadliest incident in years, actually, as it turns out. But what's been happening is in front of the Republican Guard building, you've been having this sit-in of president - I should say deposed President Mohammed Morsi's supporters, and they've been there day after day since he was deposed. And this morning, during prayers, a very violent attack broke out. Initially, it was with birdshot and teargas, and it quickly escalated to rubber bullets and live fire, and it ended being a bloodbath, frankly. SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: And that's the only thing we know for sure. There are very conflicting accounts about what happened, with the Muslim Brotherhood saying that they were there peacefully praying, and were attacked unprovoked, whereas the military and police are saying that the Muslim Brotherhood supporters there had tried to scale the walls and, in fact, opened fire on them. DAVID GREENE, HOST: So dueling press conferences, I gather, trying to sort of what exactly what happened. Are we going to get to the facts at some point, or is this just going to be sort of two sides pointing at each other? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: Well, each side presented a very long list of detailed - blow-by-blow, if you will, of what happened with video footage, competing video footage. But, of course, again, it doesn't seem to be getting any clearer as to what happened. The Muslim Brotherhood, also at its very emotional press conference, said that the military coup was taking Egypt into a pool of blood. And at the military press conference, they talked about - I mean, they showed footage, and they were very angry about being accused of killing children, which is something that the Muslim Brotherhood was accusing them of and showing footage of, saying that this is something that came from Syria. It had nothing to do with Egypt. And that they had every right to protect themselves. SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: The police also pointed out that they've had 12 officers killed and 107 injured since the uprising against President Morsi - this - on June 28th, as what they were counting. And the military says any installation in the world or any military in the world is allowed to protect its installation, and that they had given multiple warnings, and that they were provoked this morning. DAVID GREENE, HOST: That's just that there's a lot of deaths we're talking about. And, Soraya, going forward and looking for a possible resolution to all this, if a new interim government comes together, there was hope on the government's side that that this other Islamist faction, the al-Nour Party, might join with an interim government, even if the Muslim Brotherhood, you know, does not. But now, al-Nour has announced that they're pulling out of talks. What kind of impact might that have? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: Well, that would be a terrible blow for the military leaders of this coup, as well as for the largely secular coalition that has backed the ouster of Mohammed Morsi. The Nour Party had a very strong statement this morning. They've softened it since then and said they're still talking with the coalition, but that they've suspended negotiations, per se. DAVID GREENE, HOST: And briefly, Soraya, is violence widespread in Cairo today, or is it focused in just this one area where we saw this outbreak this morning? SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON, BYLINE: Well, thus far, the violence was just in that one area. Emotions are running very high, though. People all over the streets in Cairo are talking about this and are fighting - I mean - or - and I should say each side is fighting for the viewpoint, or for the public opinion here. And so - but it is very much talked about. At this stage, funerals have not taken place yet, either, because the bodies haven't been released from the morgue. DAVID GREENE, HOST: All right. NPR's Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson, updating us on the violence this morning in Cairo, the deadliest incident so far since President Morsi was deposed last week, and we'll be having much more throughout the day here from NPR News. Soraya, thanks so much.

In Egypt, dozens of people were killed in a clash between protesters and security forces Monday morning. The Muslim Brotherhood says government forces fired on them. The military says the headquarters was stormed by protesters.

In Ägypten sind am Montagmorgen bei Zusammenstößen zwischen Demonstranten und Sicherheitskräften Dutzende Menschen getötet worden. Die Muslimbruderschaft sagt, dass Regierungstruppen auf sie geschossen haben. Das Militär sagt, das Hauptquartier sei von Demonstranten gestürmt worden.

周一上午，埃及抗议者和警卫队发生冲突，造成数十人死亡。穆斯林兄弟会称，政府军向他们开火。军方称，总部遭到抗议者袭击。

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: There's an agreement in the Senate to change the way Congress handles sexual harassment claims. A bipartisan bill negotiated by Minnesota Democrat Amy Klobuchar and Missouri Republican Roy Blunt would require lawmakers to personally pay settlements or penalties tied to their own misconduct. Right now those settlements are taxpayer-funded. And also, they're secret. The bill comes after several lawmakers have been forced to resign because of harassment or misconduct claims. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: NPR congressional correspondent Scott Detrow is on Capitol Hill to walk us through it all. Scott, how are you doing? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Hey. Hey, Audie. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: So remind us how deeply the #MeToo movement has hit Congress in the past year. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Pretty hard. You've had numerous lawmakers who have resigned or said they're not going to run for another term because of one kind of allegation or another. That includes Democrat Al Franken, who had to step down from the Senate. And these allegations exposed a complaint reporting process in Congress that Amy Klobuchar calls antiquated. AMY KLOBUCHAR: It was basically muzzling victims. It was designed to do that. It had a mandatory mediation period, a mandatory counseling period, a mandatory cooling off period. This made no sense. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: And as lawmaker after lawmaker had these issues, these stories highlighted the fact that harassment settlements are paid for with taxpayer money. That was the case with Pennsylvania Republican Congressman Patrick Meehan, who resigned after a settlement with a staffer was made public. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: So what exactly would this legislation do? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: The lawmakers would have to personally repay awards or settlements tied to their own personal actions. This gets rid of these taxpayer-funded settlements. It also gets rid of those cooling off periods that you heard Senator Klobuchar talking about. Staffers with a complaint would be able to immediately move to mediation, an administrative hearing or legal action. And this would also make the settlements public in reports issued a couple times a year. And these reports would include the amount of money being paid out. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Is this a done deal? We've seen a lot of so-called bipartisan agreements fall apart. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Nothing's ever a done deal with this Congress, but this seems like as much of a done deal as you will see. You had Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer put out a joint statement supporting this bill today. That's pretty unusual. Here's McConnell speaking on the Senate floor. MITCH MCCONNELL: Here's what all this adds up to - a clearer, easier and more timely process for those who seek to file harassment claims and greater personal accountability and transparency in the event that misconduct occurs. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: So we don't have an exact timeline yet of when a vote is going to take place, but both leaders are promising it's going to happen pretty soon. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: We've been talking about the Senate. What about the House, right? Don't they have their own harassment bill? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Yeah. They passed this back in February, and there was a lot of frustration building in the Senate as this measure took so long to negotiate. There were a couple of different letters - open letters that senators signed saying, hey, we need to have this happen faster. So if this passes the Senate, it's going to have to go back to the House, and they're going to hammer out the differences. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Big picture - these measures are pretty close. They do a lot of the same things that we just talked about. But there are a lot of tactical differences that are going to be - need to be worked out over the coming weeks or months. Republican Congressman Gregg Harper played a big role in the House bill. He says he and his staff are reviewing the Senate measure, but they're glad that it's here. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: That's NPR's Scott Detrow. Scott, thank you. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Sure thing.

Senate leaders announced a deal on legislation to overhaul how Congress investigates allegations of sexual harassment. The measure makes lawmakers personally liable for settling claims and streamlines the process for filing complaints. Top Republican and Democratic leaders hailed the deal and promised quick action.

Die Senatsführer kündigten eine Einigung über ein Gesetz an, um die Untersuchung der Vorwürfe sexueller Belästigung durch den Kongress zu überarbeiten. Die Maßnahme macht den Gesetzgeber persönlich haftbar für die Regulierung von Ansprüchen und optimiert das Verfahren zur Einreichung von Beschwerden. Spitzenpolitiker der Republikaner und der Demokraten begrüßten das Abkommen und versprachen schnelles Handeln.

参议院领导人宣布了一项立法协议，以改革国会调查性骚扰指控的方式。这项措施要求立法者个人承担解决索赔的责任，并简化了投诉程序。共和党和民主党高层领导人对该协议表示欢迎，并承诺迅速采取行动。

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: The big theme today in the presidential campaign is national security. Donald Trump spoke at length about defense and national security issues in a speech today in Philadelphia. And later tonight, both Trump and Hillary Clinton will take questions on national security and veterans issues at an event sponsored by the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: NPR's Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman is here to go over the Trump proposals with us. And Tom, just give us the big picture to start the summary of what he had to say in the speech today. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Well, Audie, it's some of Trump's more detailed plans for the Pentagon. He wants to add tens of thousands more troops to the Army and the Marine Corps, in some cases even more than what the generals have called for. He would buy more fighters for the Air Force, more ships for the Navy. And many of these proposals sound a lot like ones Mitt Romney made when he ran for president back in 2012. These ideas basically reflect the thinking of a lot of national security conservatives in Washington. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: So given that, any sense of how much it would all cost, or how would the US pay for it? TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Well, he offers no price tag, but we're talking clearly tens of billions of dollars more than the Pentagon gets now. And he said he would pay for it by, quote, "eliminating government waste and budget gimmicks." TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Now, this effort would also require Congress to lift the budget caps that have been in effect since 2011. Trump said he would push Congress to do that. Now, Republicans of course would need to keep control of the House and Senate to go along with this idea, but the Democrats almost certainly would not agree. Also Trump has called for a tax cut as well, so you would have to add all that to the mix. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Now, Donald Trump's talked a lot about ISIS on the campaign trail. What did he have to say about that fight today, what he'd do about it? TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Well, he said it would be his top priority after he's elected. Here's what he said. DONALD TRUMP: So we're going to convene my top generals and give them a simple instruction. They will have 30 days to submit to the Oval Office a plan for soundly and quickly defeating ISIS. DONALD TRUMP: We have no choice. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Now, the U.S. already has a plan it's executing, one that's been criticized is not working well enough. And that plan is basically this, Audie - train and work with local forces in Syria and Iraq, and the U.S. would serve as an Air Force. The administration says that plan will take another year or so to complete to defeat ISIS. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Now, the only other quick and decisive option for people to look at this would be a big deployment of U.S. troops, at least thousands, maybe tens of thousands, as well as maybe troops from Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Add to that a heavier U.S. air campaign. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: But Trump didn't go quite that far today. He's not addressed whether he would send large numbers of U.S. troops beyond the several thousand Americans there now. Most of them are trainers, but some are commandos. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: You mention Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Did Donald Trump talk anything about who America would ally with in this fight? TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Well, he pretty much echoed what he's already said. He once again criticized NATO, saying few of the 28 member states pay enough. They don't meet their commitments. He also wants Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to pay more for the, quote, "tremendous security we provide them." But he said he would do so respectfully. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Tom Bowman talking about Donald Trump's national security speech today. Tom, thank you. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: You're welcome. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: And we'll have more coverage of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton at tonight's national security forum on npr.org and tomorrow on MORNING EDITION.

Donald Trump unveiled some of his most detailed proposals yet for how he would tackle national security as president. He specified numbers of troops, numbers of ships and other goals. But his proposals would cost billions more than the Pentagon currently receives and require action by Congress to lift budget caps that today constrain spending.

Donald Trump enthüllte einige seiner bisher detailliertesten Vorschläge, wie er als Präsident die nationale Sicherheit angehen würde. Er spezifizierte Truppenzahlen, Schiffszahlen und andere Ziele. Aber seine Vorschläge würden Milliarden mehr kosten als das, das Pentagon derzeit erhält, und erfordern Maßnahmen des Kongresses, um die Budgetobergrenzen aufzuheben, die heute die Ausgaben einschränken.

唐纳德·特朗普公布了一些最详细的提议，内容涉及他作为总统将如何处理国家安全问题。他明确要求了军队数量、船只数量和其他目标。但他的提议将比五角大楼目前收到的预算高出数十亿美元，同时需要国会取消目前限制开支的预算上限。

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Senator John McCain returns to work today despite his cancer diagnosis. His vote is needed. There are some big votes ahead today for both chambers of Congress. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Senator John McCain returns to work today despite his cancer diagnosis. His vote is needed. There are some big votes ahead today for both chambers of Congress. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah, that's right. The House is going to take up a bill that imposes sanctions on Iran, North Korea and Russia. Senators are going to vote on whether to start debate on a health care bill. The question is, which bill? There's confusion over which of the various replacements for the Affordable Care Act that they're actually going to consider. Here is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah, that's right. The House is going to take up a bill that imposes sanctions on Iran, North Korea and Russia. Senators are going to vote on whether to start debate on a health care bill. The question is, which bill? There's confusion over which of the various replacements for the Affordable Care Act that they're actually going to consider. Here is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy. CHRIS MURPHY: I don't know what's going to happen. So far as I can tell, my Republican colleagues don't know. There are three different versions of the bill that could possibly be up for a vote tomorrow. CHRIS MURPHY: I don't know what's going to happen. So far as I can tell, my Republican colleagues don't know. There are three different versions of the bill that could possibly be up for a vote tomorrow. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: That's Senator Murphy speaking on MSNBC last night. At this point, Republicans don't publicly have the votes they need to pass any of their health care replacement plans. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: That's Senator Murphy speaking on MSNBC last night. At this point, Republicans don't publicly have the votes they need to pass any of their health care replacement plans. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: One of our vote counters is NPR's Domenico Montanaro. Hi, Domenico. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: One of our vote counters is NPR's Domenico Montanaro. Hi, Domenico. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey there. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey there. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Any idea? Do they have the votes? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Any idea? Do they have the votes? DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: It's unclear at this point. You know, Senator Susan Collins of Maine is a no. And more than half a dozen other Republicans are undecided on whether or not to go forward with what's the first vote, which is just a motion to proceed, which is just what it sounds like, to just move on to the next step of the process. Donald Trump threatened Tom Price, who's the Health and Human Services secretary, seemingly in jest at the Boy Scout Jamboree in West Virginia, which isn't really supposed to get political. But he went out there and said, if it doesn't pass, you're fired - seemingly jokingly. And he said that Shelley Moore Capito, one of those undecided senators, who's from West Virginia, said that she needs to vote for it. McConnell might be indicating, you know... DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: It's unclear at this point. You know, Senator Susan Collins of Maine is a no. And more than half a dozen other Republicans are undecided on whether or not to go forward with what's the first vote, which is just a motion to proceed, which is just what it sounds like, to just move on to the next step of the process. Donald Trump threatened Tom Price, who's the Health and Human Services secretary, seemingly in jest at the Boy Scout Jamboree in West Virginia, which isn't really supposed to get political. But he went out there and said, if it doesn't pass, you're fired - seemingly jokingly. And he said that Shelley Moore Capito, one of those undecided senators, who's from West Virginia, said that she needs to vote for it. McConnell might be indicating, you know... STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Mitch McConnell, right? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Mitch McConnell, right? DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: ...He thinks they do have the votes. Yeah, Mitch McConnell, who is the Republican Senate leader, controls the agenda because John McCain, who you mentioned there, who was diagnosed with brain cancer, is expected to make a pretty dramatic return to the Senate. And he's a yes vote. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: ...He thinks they do have the votes. Yeah, Mitch McConnell, who is the Republican Senate leader, controls the agenda because John McCain, who you mentioned there, who was diagnosed with brain cancer, is expected to make a pretty dramatic return to the Senate. And he's a yes vote. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Oh, he is now a yes vote in spite of his own reservations about this entire process? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Oh, he is now a yes vote in spite of his own reservations about this entire process? DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: He's got reservations. But he's a pretty loyal Republican and has been a yes vote and has not been one of the waver - wavering Republicans on this bill - on - not this bill - on this process. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: He's got reservations. But he's a pretty loyal Republican and has been a yes vote and has not been one of the waver - wavering Republicans on this bill - on - not this bill - on this process. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK. Well, let's listen to some of what President Trump has been saying to pressure his fellow Republicans. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK. Well, let's listen to some of what President Trump has been saying to pressure his fellow Republicans. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Remember, repeal and replace, repeal and replace. They kept saying it over and over again. Every Republican running for office promised immediate relief from this disastrous law. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Remember, repeal and replace, repeal and replace. They kept saying it over and over again. Every Republican running for office promised immediate relief from this disastrous law. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Domenico, I do remember repeal and replace. But Republicans never said what the replacement was and neither did the president, in spite of promises to do that. Do they know now what the replacement is? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Domenico, I do remember repeal and replace. But Republicans never said what the replacement was and neither did the president, in spite of promises to do that. Do they know now what the replacement is? DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: No, we have no idea. They have no idea what they'll even be voting on. We know that they'll vote on this motion to proceed, which it's not clear if they have the votes yet on it. And then they go on to about 20 hours of debate, which would expire tomorrow. Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has promised to bring a full repeal with a two-year delay to the floor. But to this point, Republicans don't have the votes for that. And if he doesn't bring that or if it fails, then it's onto the Senate's version of no-holds-barred, which is called vote-a-rama. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: No, we have no idea. They have no idea what they'll even be voting on. We know that they'll vote on this motion to proceed, which it's not clear if they have the votes yet on it. And then they go on to about 20 hours of debate, which would expire tomorrow. Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has promised to bring a full repeal with a two-year delay to the floor. But to this point, Republicans don't have the votes for that. And if he doesn't bring that or if it fails, then it's onto the Senate's version of no-holds-barred, which is called vote-a-rama. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Oh. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Oh. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: And, Steve, that's where anyone can bring any amendment to the floor and have it voted on. It's like doing the work from... DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: And, Steve, that's where anyone can bring any amendment to the floor and have it voted on. It's like doing the work from... STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Please, don't make us say the word vote-a-rama on the air. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Please, don't make us say the word vote-a-rama on the air. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: You just did. I just made you say it. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: You just did. I just made you say it. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK, fine. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK, fine. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: It's like... DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: It's like... STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: What does it mean? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: What does it mean? DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: It's - well, look, it's like doing the work that you would normally do for months in committee, doing it all out on the floor in a matter of hours or days. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: It's - well, look, it's like doing the work that you would normally do for months in committee, doing it all out on the floor in a matter of hours or days. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Very briefly, what's it mean that the House is now going to follow the Senate in imposing sanctions on Russia? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Very briefly, what's it mean that the House is now going to follow the Senate in imposing sanctions on Russia? DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: You know, this has exposed the biggest rift between Republicans in the House and President Trump. This is not something he wanted to have to vote on. It really could curtail the powers of the presidency. And really, this is congressional Republicans having made Donald Trump cry uncle because now the White House is saying that he will sign these tougher sanctions. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: You know, this has exposed the biggest rift between Republicans in the House and President Trump. This is not something he wanted to have to vote on. It really could curtail the powers of the presidency. And really, this is congressional Republicans having made Donald Trump cry uncle because now the White House is saying that he will sign these tougher sanctions. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK. That's NPR's Domenico Montanaro. Domenico, thanks for joining us, really appreciate it. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK. That's NPR's Domenico Montanaro. Domenico, thanks for joining us, really appreciate it. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: You're welcome. DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: You're welcome. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Shall we shift the focus a bit now to Turkey, where the prime minister is putting more pressure on his critics? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Shall we shift the focus a bit now to Turkey, where the prime minister is putting more pressure on his critics? RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah, critics including journalists. The government has put 17 newspaper employees on trial there. Protesters say journalists and newspaper employees have been targeted for doing their jobs. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah, critics including journalists. The government has put 17 newspaper employees on trial there. Protesters say journalists and newspaper employees have been targeted for doing their jobs. UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting in foreign language). UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting in foreign language). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: The voices of protesters crying, quote, "don't be silent. We have a right to a free press." The 17 staffers worked for one of the country's oldest newspapers. Turkey, of course, has steadily taken over major media outlets in the wake of this crackdown that has intensified after the failed coup last year. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: The voices of protesters crying, quote, "don't be silent. We have a right to a free press." The 17 staffers worked for one of the country's oldest newspapers. Turkey, of course, has steadily taken over major media outlets in the wake of this crackdown that has intensified after the failed coup last year. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: NPR's Lauren Frayer is joining us now from Istanbul. Hi, Lauren. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: NPR's Lauren Frayer is joining us now from Istanbul. Hi, Lauren. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: Hi, Steve. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: Hi, Steve. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: What did the newspaper employees allegedly do? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: What did the newspaper employees allegedly do? LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: They are charged with writing things in this century-old newspaper that helped groups the Turkish government considers terrorists, predominantly... LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: They are charged with writing things in this century-old newspaper that helped groups the Turkish government considers terrorists, predominantly... STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: I thought you were just going to stop there and say they are accused of writing things in this old newspaper. I thought that was going to be the quote. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: I thought you were just going to stop there and say they are accused of writing things in this old newspaper. I thought that was going to be the quote. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: (Laughter) That's their job. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: (Laughter) That's their job. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Go on. Go on. I'm sorry. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Go on. Go on. I'm sorry. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: They're accused of writing things that helped predominantly the movement of Fethullah Gulen. He is a Muslim cleric who lives in the U.S. The Turkish government blames his group for last year's failed coup that you mentioned, and he denies that. So these newspaper employees face up to 43 years in prison if convicted on what are terrorism charges. They were all arrested at their homes last October. Most have been in jail ever since. And it's not just reporters, by the way. The defendants include the newspaper's accountant, the newspaper's lawyer. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: They're accused of writing things that helped predominantly the movement of Fethullah Gulen. He is a Muslim cleric who lives in the U.S. The Turkish government blames his group for last year's failed coup that you mentioned, and he denies that. So these newspaper employees face up to 43 years in prison if convicted on what are terrorism charges. They were all arrested at their homes last October. Most have been in jail ever since. And it's not just reporters, by the way. The defendants include the newspaper's accountant, the newspaper's lawyer. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK. Well, what are people saying on the streets about this? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK. Well, what are people saying on the streets about this? LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: Here's someone I met outside the courthouse. Her name is Banu Guven (ph). She worked for a TV channel that was shut down by the government last year around the same time that these journalists were arrested. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: Here's someone I met outside the courthouse. Her name is Banu Guven (ph). She worked for a TV channel that was shut down by the government last year around the same time that these journalists were arrested. BANU GUVEN: We were being accused of endangering the national security. So from then on, I'm doing my job as a freelancer. But it's becoming more and more difficult or almost impossible in Turkey. BANU GUVEN: We were being accused of endangering the national security. So from then on, I'm doing my job as a freelancer. But it's becoming more and more difficult or almost impossible in Turkey. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: And rights groups say that the government of Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan has jailed more than 150 journalists in the past year. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: And rights groups say that the government of Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan has jailed more than 150 journalists in the past year. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: You know, Lauren, we've been paying attention all year, especially this year, to a big theme around the world. Countries that have the forms of democracy - they're still having elections. They may have a, you know, popular leader, but they don't really have the reality anymore because so many elements of a democracy, like a free press, are being eroded or destroyed. How far is Turkey headed in that direction? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: You know, Lauren, we've been paying attention all year, especially this year, to a big theme around the world. Countries that have the forms of democracy - they're still having elections. They may have a, you know, popular leader, but they don't really have the reality anymore because so many elements of a democracy, like a free press, are being eroded or destroyed. How far is Turkey headed in that direction? LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: So it's not just free press, by the way. I mean, Amnesty International workers have been arrested here in recent weeks. I'll tell you a little anecdote that I think goes to the heart of this. Outside the courtroom, I met an elderly woman hunched over, in a headscarf, carrying a portrait of a - the man who founded modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, in the year 1923. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: So it's not just free press, by the way. I mean, Amnesty International workers have been arrested here in recent weeks. I'll tell you a little anecdote that I think goes to the heart of this. Outside the courtroom, I met an elderly woman hunched over, in a headscarf, carrying a portrait of a - the man who founded modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, in the year 1923. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: And this woman told me that she worries that Ataturk's vision of a secular, democratic Turkey is fading with the arrests of journalists, with the arrests of human rights workers, with the purges in the business community of suspected followers of this Muslim cleric Gulen in sort of middle managers in business. And she feels like democracy is in danger here. And she's a - she was an elderly woman on the street. She's not a representative of a free press agency. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: And this woman told me that she worries that Ataturk's vision of a secular, democratic Turkey is fading with the arrests of journalists, with the arrests of human rights workers, with the purges in the business community of suspected followers of this Muslim cleric Gulen in sort of middle managers in business. And she feels like democracy is in danger here. And she's a - she was an elderly woman on the street. She's not a representative of a free press agency. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Right. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Right. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: She's not representing other - anyone other than, you know, the - herself, the Turkish people. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: She's not representing other - anyone other than, you know, the - herself, the Turkish people. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: NPR's Lauren Frayer, thanks very much. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: NPR's Lauren Frayer, thanks very much. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: You're welcome. LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: You're welcome. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Hey, let's talk about the press in this country because The New York Times says it's had enough from Fox News. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Hey, let's talk about the press in this country because The New York Times says it's had enough from Fox News. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah, many personalities on the conservative channel openly support President Trump. So that means that they have joined Trump's regular attacks on The New York Times. We should note, despite the criticisms, though, the president has given several interviews to The New York Times. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah, many personalities on the conservative channel openly support President Trump. So that means that they have joined Trump's regular attacks on The New York Times. We should note, despite the criticisms, though, the president has given several interviews to The New York Times. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: His favorite paper. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: His favorite paper. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Over the weekend, Fox aired this segment accusing the times of publishing leaked information about an effort to kill the leader of ISIS. In reality, the Times published after the supposedly botched raid. But Fox hosts Pete Hegseth and Abby Huntsman then questioned the paper's patriotism. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Over the weekend, Fox aired this segment accusing the times of publishing leaked information about an effort to kill the leader of ISIS. In reality, the Times published after the supposedly botched raid. But Fox hosts Pete Hegseth and Abby Huntsman then questioned the paper's patriotism. ABBY HUNTSMAN: Yeah. You think about what the role is that media today. Is it to inform and to protect the American people? Because if that is the case, you think about something like that and the harm that it does to our national security. So this happened... ABBY HUNTSMAN: Yeah. You think about what the role is that media today. Is it to inform and to protect the American people? Because if that is the case, you think about something like that and the harm that it does to our national security. So this happened... RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: The Times called the Fox segment malicious and asked for an on-air apology. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: The Times called the Fox segment malicious and asked for an on-air apology. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: NPR's David Folkenflik is here. No apologies from him. Hi, David. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: NPR's David Folkenflik is here. No apologies from him. Hi, David. DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Good morning. DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Good morning. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: So what caused - I mean, the - you know, Fox News criticizes the Times all the time. Why did the Times decide that this one required an apology? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: So what caused - I mean, the - you know, Fox News criticizes the Times all the time. Why did the Times decide that this one required an apology? DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: A question I put to the Times itself. The Times argued that the way in which Fox News characterized what the Times had done in commenting on the weekend show "Fox & Friends" about the remarks of this four-star general, Tony Thomas, he's the head of the, basically, Army Special Forces - mischaracterized what the Times did and also really cast an incredible - them in an incredibly wrong light. DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: A question I put to the Times itself. The Times argued that the way in which Fox News characterized what the Times had done in commenting on the weekend show "Fox & Friends" about the remarks of this four-star general, Tony Thomas, he's the head of the, basically, Army Special Forces - mischaracterized what the Times did and also really cast an incredible - them in an incredibly wrong light. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Essentially messing up the timeline, right? According to the Times, their story was after the raid that was supposedly affected by their story in some way. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Essentially messing up the timeline, right? According to the Times, their story was after the raid that was supposedly affected by their story in some way. DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Well, they said they reported - look, you know, they said they reported these remarks uncritically from an appearance that Tony Thomas did in Aspen with Catherine Herridge, a Fox reporter. In fact, the Times said, look, we ran what we were going to publish by military officials at the Pentagon before we did so. They raised no objections... DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Well, they said they reported - look, you know, they said they reported these remarks uncritically from an appearance that Tony Thomas did in Aspen with Catherine Herridge, a Fox reporter. In fact, the Times said, look, we ran what we were going to publish by military officials at the Pentagon before we did so. They raised no objections... STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Oh, Tony Thomas. This is a guy who was at the security conference. And he makes a remark, which Fox News picks up. And... STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Oh, Tony Thomas. This is a guy who was at the security conference. And he makes a remark, which Fox News picks up. And... DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: That's right. He's a four-star general. And they say that, you know, they ran this uncritically and that they questioned then - they impugned the newspaper's - they impugned the newspaper's motives and that they did so in a way that didn't take seriously what they're doing as reporting. They said, look, a lot of this stuff was common sense. A lot of the stuff you'd know from past military raids. And why didn't Fox News's reporter think to question the grounds on which the general made those assertions? DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: That's right. He's a four-star general. And they say that, you know, they ran this uncritically and that they questioned then - they impugned the newspaper's - they impugned the newspaper's motives and that they did so in a way that didn't take seriously what they're doing as reporting. They said, look, a lot of this stuff was common sense. A lot of the stuff you'd know from past military raids. And why didn't Fox News's reporter think to question the grounds on which the general made those assertions? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK, David, thanks very much, really appreciate it. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK, David, thanks very much, really appreciate it. DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: You bet. DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: You bet. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: That's NPR's David Folkenflik this morning on The New York Times demand for an apology from Fox News. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: That's NPR's David Folkenflik this morning on The New York Times demand for an apology from Fox News.

President Trump pressures Senate Republicans to keep their promise to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. In Turkey, 17 journalists from the country's oldest independent newspaper go on trial.

Präsident Trump setzt die Republikaner im Senat unter Druck, ihr Versprechen einzuhalten, den Affordable Care Act aufzuheben und zu ersetzen. In der Türkei kommen 17 Journalisten von der ältesten unabhängigen Zeitung des Landes vor Gericht.

特朗普总统向参议院共和党人施压，要求他们信守承诺，废除并取代《平价医疗法案》。在土耳其，17名来自该国历史最悠久的独立报纸的记者正在接受审判。

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: There was one phrase President Trump was careful to say loud and clear last night - radical Islamic terrorism. That's the president's term for groups the U.S. is battling in the Middle East, and he's continued to say it over the objections of his new national security adviser. NPR's David Welna reports. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: While laying out his views last night on the nation's security, President Trump repeated a controversial phrase he'd often used on the campaign trail. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're also taking strong measures to protect our nation from radical Islamic terrorism. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: Today on Morning Edition, White House adviser Sebastian Gorka staunchly defended Trump's use of the term radical Islamic terrorism. SEBASTIAN GORKA: Those are the most - the clearest three words of his speech. The enemy is radical Islamic terrorism and that has not changed, and it will not change. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: That's a big change from Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, both of whom refused to utter that phrase. MARTHA CRENSHAW: I think politically it does matter. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: That's Stanford University counterterrorism scholar Martha Crenshaw. She says the term radical Islamic terrorism can be quite offensive to many of the world's one and a half billion Muslims. MARTHA CRENSHAW: It's really very broad, and it does risk stigmatizing an entire religion, an entire community of believers, the vast, vast majority of whom do not believe in jihadism whatsoever. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: For David Rothkopf CEO and editor of Foreign Policy magazine, Trump's use of the loaded term underscores the sway of his domestic policy advisers, among them, Gorka and Chief Political Strategist Stephen Bannon. DAVID ROTHKOPF: They view using a term like the one the president used is red meat for their base. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: The president's new national security adviser Lieutenant General H. R. McMaster had strongly advised against using the term radical Islamic terrorism. That's according to a U.S. official who heard McMasters say as much to the National Security Council last week. Again, Foreign Policy's Rothkopf. DAVID ROTHKOPF: McMaster takes a national security view, an international view, brings it to president, who also has people presenting a domestic view, and the president takes the domestic political view over the informed national security view. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: What do you think that portends for things to come in this White House? DAVID ROTHKOPF: It can't feel good for McMaster. McMaster has a reputation of speaking truth to power. If this is an isolated incident, then, you know, presumably, he'll get over it. If he spends a few months in this job laying down his best thoughts, and the president rejects them - and he's actually - you know, comes to think of himself as a kind of a beard for the bad guys, then I think he's going to get very frustrated with it. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: Trump adviser Gorka, for his part, told Morning Edition today the term radical Islamic terrorism will not be revised. SEBASTIAN GORKA: Sticking to our guns on this issue is incredibly important. We're not wavering on this one. DAVID WELNA, BYLINE: David Welna, NPR News, Washington.

President Trump ridiculed his predecessor and Hillary Clinton for refusing to use the term "radical Islamic terrorism." Turns out his new national security adviser, Gen. H.R. McMaster, is also opposed to using the phrase since he finds the groups the U.S. is fighting in the Middle East not Islamic. But that has not stopped Trump from repeating it, to the delight of his base.

Präsident Trump machte seinen Vorgänger und Hillary Clinton lächerlich, weil sie sich weigerten, den Begriff \"radikaler islamischer Terrorismus\" zu verwenden. Es stellte sich heraus, dass sein neuer nationaler Sicherheitsberater, General HR McMaster, ebenfalls gegen die Verwendung des Ausdrucks ist, da er die Gruppen, die die USA im Nahen Osten bekämpfen, nicht islamisch findet. Aber das hat Trump nicht davon abgehalten, es zur Freude seiner Basis zu wiederholen.

特朗普总统嘲笑他的前任和希拉里·克林顿拒绝使用“极端伊斯兰恐怖主义这个词。”事实证明，他的新国家安全顾问麦克马斯特将军也反对使用这个词，因为他发现美国在中东打击的组织不是伊斯兰组织。但这并没有阻止特朗普重复这句话，为使得她的选民感到高兴。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: But first, it's March and that means madness, as in college basketball. This weekend the field for the NCAA Tournament will be selected and all this week teams are trying to win that one last game that will earn them an invite. MADELEINE BRAND, host: But there's another basketball tradition we want to discuss now, rushing the court after big wins. It's drawn concern from some school administrators. NPR's Mike Pesca went courtside to bring us this report. MIKE PESCA reporting: Wednesday night, Hackensack, New Jersey, there was smoke on the water, a fire in the sky, and a fevered glint in the eyes of the Fairleigh Dickinson students. The only thing that stood between their team and a trip to the NCAA Tournament was the Monmouth Hawks. The only thing in between the crazed crowd and the court itself was one flimsy barrier and a student in a gray t-shirt that read Event Staff, Denise Thompson. Ms. DENISE THOMPSON (Student, Fairleigh Dickinson): Oh, if we win we're going to be all over the court. PESCA: And tell me about--describe this white barrier, how strong is it? Ms. DENISE THOMPSON (Student, Fairleigh Dickinson): It's strong enough to stay up there by itself, but it's not strong enough when you have a thousand students running over it. PESCA: Can you lift it? Ms. DENISE THOMPSON (Student, Fairleigh Dickinson): Yeah. I can lift it up with both my hands, one hand, two hands, finger. PESCA: And she did lift the plastic barrier with a finger. From a fan's perspective to be part of a court storming is to play a part in a movie you've seen a hundred times. Maybe you're not Rudy, but you're the guy who hoisted him on your shoulders. Without people like you, who would make up the crowd that Rocky had to fight through to get to his Adrian. From the player's perspective it's a little different. As a guard on the Fairleigh Dickinson team that went to the NCAA Tournament in 1998, Tedaryl Fason was party to court stormings both home and away. Mr. TEDARYL FASON (Former Basketball player, Fairleigh Dickinson): Here, L.A.U., and when I was at L.A.U. I didn't think we were going to make it home and on the bus, so it's definitely a scary feeling, but at the same time it's a good feeling after you win the game. PESCA: Ronald Stratton, Vice President of the NCAA, is concerned that college basketball celebrations are getting out of hand. He doesn't want to wait until something tragic happens, as was the case with college football, where a student was actually killed when goalposts were dismantled after a victory. He says the line between spectator and participant seems to be blurring. Mr. RONALD STRATTON (Vice President, NCAA): They're trying to do whatever the can to bring the fan into the same experience as a competitor. And by doing that there's some downsides to that. I'm not sure that the crowd, particularly if it's in a frenzy, is caring about the safety of people trying to get on and off the court. PESCA: The Southeastern Conference has taken to fining schools if their fans storm the court. In SEC arenas, such as Vanderbilt's, public address messages like this one are prominent. Unidentified Announcer: Fans, also remember that all fans must stay off the playing court at the end of the game. Violators are subject to arrest and the loss of future ticket privileges. PESCA: But at the gym on the FDU campus no such words were uttered. With less then 10 seconds remaining, Fairleigh Dickinson was clinging to a one point lead and shooting foul shots. Student Clint Brown was excited. Mr. CLINT BROWN (Student, Fairleigh Dickinson): We want two, baby! We want two! PESCA: You're going on the court? Mr. CLINT BROWN (Student, Fairleigh Dickinson): Yes! We won it! We're taking over this barricade! PESCA: But the shooter bricked the foul shot and Monmouth rebounded, quickly outletted, and on a driving lay-up took a one point lead. The implications were clear. The storming would likely come from underneath the other basket. There were two seconds left, but a time out allowed this court storm chaser to switch sides, where four busloads of Monmouth fans were assembled. Monmouth student Mark Hutchinson called the game's final moments. Mr. MARK HUTCHINSON (Student, Monmouth): Here we go. Cory Alex, he runs to the sideline. He runs to the sideline. They get a pass. It's intercepted. Monmouth wins. PESCA: Monmouth wins and with that Hutchinson and over a hundred of his fellow fans were on the court, the barricade having been swiftly removed by arena staff. No one was trampled, but a few Fairleigh Dickinson fans took umbrage at the celebration that they assumed was to be theirs. A small group made their way onto the court and tempers began to rise. PESCA: Then the most unlikely peacemaker interceded. The Knight, Fairleigh Dickinson's mascot, with plastic horse head towering over everyone, stepped in between the two groups. Rook threatened pawn and the situation was diffused. Monmouth's top scorer and tournament MVP Marcus Alston, yeah, that guy, described the games final moments. Mr. MARCUS ALSTON (Basketball Player, Monmouth): The first tip went up in the air and it was still--the clock was still running, I was just hoping, you know, one of their players didn't catch it. You know, luckily we got the ball and they--I don't know, the feeling just rushed over me. You know, for a second I forgot we won the game, you know, until everybody rushed the court. PESCA: Other players would say it was like a movie or a dream, made real, as Alston said, by the sight of fans storming the court. Mike Pesca, NPR News, New York.

You're at the game when your beloved college basketball team scores a last-second basket. You cheer! You jump up and down! But you might want to think twice about storming the court — some college administrators are enacting measures to stop the practice, including fines for over-enthusiastic fans.

Du bist beim Spiel, wenn deine geliebte College-Basketballmannschaft einen Korb in letzter Sekunde erzielt. Du jubelst! Du springst auf und ab! Aber du solltest es dir überlegen, ob du das Spielfeld stürmen willst – einige College-Verwalter ergreifen Maßnahmen, um die Praxis zu stoppen, einschließlich Geldstrafen für überschwängliche Fans.

你在观看比赛，你心爱的大学篮球队在最后一秒得分。你振臂高呼！你上蹿下跳！但你要想冲进球场或许就得三思而后行了——一些大学管理人员正在制定措施来阻止这种做法，包括对过度热情的球迷进行罚款。

STEVE INSKEEP, host: North Korea's next move will likely be up to its supreme leader, Kim Jong Il. He has never spoken to a Western journalist, but some have tried to assemble a picture of him. STEVE INSKEEP, host: One is Peter Maass, who profiled the North Korean leader for the New York Times Magazine, and he's on the line. Welcome to the program. Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): Good to be with you. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Is Kim Jong Il as isolated as his country seems to be? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): Actually not. He's certainly not as connected to the rest of the world as, you know, say the prime minister of France or the UK, but he is connected to the rest of the world. He does watch foreign television - all of the time, really. Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): When people, foreign visitors, do visit him, they find him very much up to date on a range of world issues, though also other issues, including, you know, who won the most recent Academy Awards. STEVE INSKEEP, host: He follows the Academy Awards? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): Yeah, well, when there was an American delegation led by Madeleine Albright that visited Pyongyang in 2000, he actually mentioned to one of the members of that delegation that he owned copies of all of the finalists for Academy Award for best movie. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Been shopping on e-Bay? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): It's believed that he gets his movies via diplomatic pouch. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Can you tell me some of the legends that have grown up about Kim Jong Il? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): There are a lot of legends about Kim Jong Il, but most of them have been kind of shot down by now. The legends were that he was just this kind of pudgy playboy who just stayed up all night long drinking and slept all day long. The conclusions that people made from that kind of legend was that he's therefore, you know, no more capable to run North Korea than Hugh Hefner, and nobody ever expected that he would ever actually be able to stay in power. Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): That's been totally overturned, because indeed, when he took power in 1994 - when his father died - everybody pretty much, in South Korea and in America as well, really didn't expect him to stay in power terribly long. He has. And what's emerged - because now there's much more information about him, from defectors, from people who've spent time with him - is a portrait, particularly when he was he was younger, of somebody who - even from a young age, as a teenager - was very smart, was interested in politics, was taking notes, was traveling with his father to Russia and really kind of learning about power, how to manipulate power, how to stay in power. Because it was never certain at all, never really kind of preordained, that Kim Jong Il would lead North Korea. Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): When he was young there were a lot of... STEVE INSKEEP, host: Even though his father was the founder of North Korea? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): Well, his father had several other children. His father had several wives. His father had brothers. Kim Jong Il had a stepmother who he did not get along with at all, and who he was very much at odds with. He competed against them and he came out on top, and that's really not easy to do. STEVE INSKEEP, host: It was often said of Saddam Hussein, that he was insanely brutal, but quite smart in his own way. And the evidence was that he had survived for so long as leader of Iraq. Is Kim Jong Il smart in that way? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): I'd say, absolutely. North Korea is a brutally poor state. It has really no kind of exports to speak of, other than counterfeit dollars and missile technology. So he can't pacify the population with goodies. So he's had to compensate for that by being, you know, incredibly ruthless, but also incredibly wily. STEVE INSKEEP, host: What do you mean by wily? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): One of the things that he's done, for example - and these are kind of little trinkets that he throws out - but when he wants to reward people, one of the things that he's done is he's given them a car, often a Mercedes. But, kind of most interestingly, the car itself would have a license plate that began with the numbers two hyphen sixteen. That refers to Kim Jong Il's birth date, February 16th. So he's always reminding people, when they get anything from the state, that it comes from him. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Is there any chance that this whole nuclear confrontation with the rest of the world is all about North Korea's domestic political situation? Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): Well, that's certainly a great amount of it. Because one of the things that Kim Jong Il needs to do is to kind of portray himself as being the defender of the country. By having an enemy, you know - the United States or whomever - the leader can seem to be all that stands between the people and disaster. Much of that is just total rubbish. But there is this myth that he has constructed, and it seems to have helped him, because he's still there. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Peter Maass, thanks very much. Mr. PETER MAASS (Contributing Writer, New York Times Magazine): Thank you. STEVE INSKEEP, host: Peter Maass is a contributing writer for the New York Times Magazine. STEVE INSKEEP, host: It's MORNING EDITION from NPR News.

The popular image of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il as a hard-drinking playboy is not accurate, according to The New York Times Magazine reporter Peter Maass. He tells Steve Inskeep that Kim is a hard worker with a knack for survival.

Das populäre Bild des nordkoreanischen Anführers Kim Jong-il als trinkfester Playboy stimmt nicht, meint der Reporter des Magazins New York Times, Peter Maass. Gegenüber Steve Inskeep sagt er, Kim sei ein harter Arbeiter mit einem Händchen fürs Überleben.

《纽约时报》杂志记者彼得·马斯认为，朝鲜领导人金正日嗜酒如命的花花公子形象并不准确。他告诉史蒂夫·因斯基普，金是工作努力，他有他生存的诀窍。

ALEX CHADWICK, host: Back now with DAY TO DAY. I'm Alex Chadwick. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Back now with DAY TO DAY. I'm Alex Chadwick. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Back now with DAY TO DAY. I'm Alex Chadwick. ALEX CHADWICK, host: The beleaguered airlines could be another casualty of Hurricane Katrina. Travel experts say the damage done to the industry could drive ticket prices higher. It also could push some airlines into bankruptcy. Bob Moon joins us from the "Marketplace" news bureau in New York. ALEX CHADWICK, host: The beleaguered airlines could be another casualty of Hurricane Katrina. Travel experts say the damage done to the industry could drive ticket prices higher. It also could push some airlines into bankruptcy. Bob Moon joins us from the "Marketplace" news bureau in New York. ALEX CHADWICK, host: The beleaguered airlines could be another casualty of Hurricane Katrina. Travel experts say the damage done to the industry could drive ticket prices higher. It also could push some airlines into bankruptcy. Bob Moon joins us from the "Marketplace" news bureau in New York. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Bob, how much as the airline industry been harmed by this hurricane? ALEX CHADWICK, host: Bob, how much as the airline industry been harmed by this hurricane? ALEX CHADWICK, host: Bob, how much as the airline industry been harmed by this hurricane? BOB MOON reporting: Alex, there are actually two parts of that question to consider here. First, you have all the lost business from the many canceled flights throughout the region. That adds up to a lot of lost revenue. But this has been something of a one-two punch because the airlines will also undoubtedly be hit with those rising fuel prices. Some airlines are able to cushion themselves from the oil market shocks with contracts that they sign in advance. This is something called fuel hedging. But those that are close to the brink and facing credit problems have a tough time doing that, so the irony is that it's the ones in the worst financial shape that could be hurt the most. Again today, crude oil prices have pushed above the 70-dollar-a-barrel mark, and fuel price futures are way up. BOB MOON reporting: Alex, there are actually two parts of that question to consider here. First, you have all the lost business from the many canceled flights throughout the region. That adds up to a lot of lost revenue. But this has been something of a one-two punch because the airlines will also undoubtedly be hit with those rising fuel prices. Some airlines are able to cushion themselves from the oil market shocks with contracts that they sign in advance. This is something called fuel hedging. But those that are close to the brink and facing credit problems have a tough time doing that, so the irony is that it's the ones in the worst financial shape that could be hurt the most. Again today, crude oil prices have pushed above the 70-dollar-a-barrel mark, and fuel price futures are way up. BOB MOON reporting: Alex, there are actually two parts of that question to consider here. First, you have all the lost business from the many canceled flights throughout the region. That adds up to a lot of lost revenue. But this has been something of a one-two punch because the airlines will also undoubtedly be hit with those rising fuel prices. Some airlines are able to cushion themselves from the oil market shocks with contracts that they sign in advance. This is something called fuel hedging. But those that are close to the brink and facing credit problems have a tough time doing that, so the irony is that it's the ones in the worst financial shape that could be hurt the most. Again today, crude oil prices have pushed above the 70-dollar-a-barrel mark, and fuel price futures are way up. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Wow. OK, so which carriers do you think are really vulnerable now? ALEX CHADWICK, host: Wow. OK, so which carriers do you think are really vulnerable now? ALEX CHADWICK, host: Wow. OK, so which carriers do you think are really vulnerable now? MOON: Well, one of the biggest carriers that serves the region is Delta, which has been on the brink of bankruptcy for many months now. It's had to cancel all flights to and from nine cities in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. American Airlines has canceled scores of flights. Continental says it canceled 111 flights. And there's United Airlines, which is currently trying to make its way out of bankruptcy. United says it's canceled all 63 flights scheduled through midday today into the area affected by the hurricane, and more cancellations are likely as this still-powerful storm moves further north. Northwest also is being pushed closer to the edge; it's struggling to avoid bankruptcy. It suspended service in a dozen Southeastern cities. Even Southwest Airlines, which has managed to escape the financial trouble that's hit the others, has had to cancel service to New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi. MOON: Well, one of the biggest carriers that serves the region is Delta, which has been on the brink of bankruptcy for many months now. It's had to cancel all flights to and from nine cities in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. American Airlines has canceled scores of flights. Continental says it canceled 111 flights. And there's United Airlines, which is currently trying to make its way out of bankruptcy. United says it's canceled all 63 flights scheduled through midday today into the area affected by the hurricane, and more cancellations are likely as this still-powerful storm moves further north. Northwest also is being pushed closer to the edge; it's struggling to avoid bankruptcy. It suspended service in a dozen Southeastern cities. Even Southwest Airlines, which has managed to escape the financial trouble that's hit the others, has had to cancel service to New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi. MOON: Well, one of the biggest carriers that serves the region is Delta, which has been on the brink of bankruptcy for many months now. It's had to cancel all flights to and from nine cities in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. American Airlines has canceled scores of flights. Continental says it canceled 111 flights. And there's United Airlines, which is currently trying to make its way out of bankruptcy. United says it's canceled all 63 flights scheduled through midday today into the area affected by the hurricane, and more cancellations are likely as this still-powerful storm moves further north. Northwest also is being pushed closer to the edge; it's struggling to avoid bankruptcy. It suspended service in a dozen Southeastern cities. Even Southwest Airlines, which has managed to escape the financial trouble that's hit the others, has had to cancel service to New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Right. You know, Bob, when the airlines get in these moments of trouble, it seems to me either they raise prices because they need the revenue or they cut them in order to encourage more people to fly. Which is it going to be? ALEX CHADWICK, host: Right. You know, Bob, when the airlines get in these moments of trouble, it seems to me either they raise prices because they need the revenue or they cut them in order to encourage more people to fly. Which is it going to be? ALEX CHADWICK, host: Right. You know, Bob, when the airlines get in these moments of trouble, it seems to me either they raise prices because they need the revenue or they cut them in order to encourage more people to fly. Which is it going to be? MOON: Well, some industry experts are expecting that it could well be the case that this time they're going to raise prices. Travel consultant Terry Tripler for one says this could cause the airlines to move more aggressively to raise ticket prices because, as he puts it, `they just cannot continue to bleed red ink.' Another airline consultant, Robert Mann, suggests that the oil price spike out of this hurricane isn't just what the airlines don't need. He says consumers don't need it. By the way, if you had to change travel plans because of this, talk to your airline. Many of the airlines are waiving fees for customers affected by this storm. MOON: Well, some industry experts are expecting that it could well be the case that this time they're going to raise prices. Travel consultant Terry Tripler for one says this could cause the airlines to move more aggressively to raise ticket prices because, as he puts it, `they just cannot continue to bleed red ink.' Another airline consultant, Robert Mann, suggests that the oil price spike out of this hurricane isn't just what the airlines don't need. He says consumers don't need it. By the way, if you had to change travel plans because of this, talk to your airline. Many of the airlines are waiving fees for customers affected by this storm. MOON: Well, some industry experts are expecting that it could well be the case that this time they're going to raise prices. Travel consultant Terry Tripler for one says this could cause the airlines to move more aggressively to raise ticket prices because, as he puts it, `they just cannot continue to bleed red ink.' Another airline consultant, Robert Mann, suggests that the oil price spike out of this hurricane isn't just what the airlines don't need. He says consumers don't need it. By the way, if you had to change travel plans because of this, talk to your airline. Many of the airlines are waiving fees for customers affected by this storm. MOON: And today in the "Marketplace" news room, we're taking a look at some of the organizations that are funding Arnold Schwarzenegger's ballot initiatives in California. MOON: And today in the "Marketplace" news room, we're taking a look at some of the organizations that are funding Arnold Schwarzenegger's ballot initiatives in California. MOON: And today in the "Marketplace" news room, we're taking a look at some of the organizations that are funding Arnold Schwarzenegger's ballot initiatives in California. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Thank you, Bob. Bob Moon of public radio's daily business show, "Marketplace," produced by American Public Media. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Thank you, Bob. Bob Moon of public radio's daily business show, "Marketplace," produced by American Public Media. ALEX CHADWICK, host: Thank you, Bob. Bob Moon of public radio's daily business show, "Marketplace," produced by American Public Media.

The one-two punch of Hurricane Katrina and soaring oil prices is giving the beleaguered U.S. airline industry a crippling blow. And with the approach a traditionally slow travel season at the end of summer, a few major carriers are flirting with bankruptcy. Alex Chadwick discusses the future of some struggling airlines with Bob Moon of Marketplace.

Der Doppelschlag des Hurrikans Katrina und die steigenden Ölpreise versetzen der angeschlagenen US-Airline-Industrie einen lähmenden Schlag. Und mit dem Herannahen einer traditionell langsamen Reisesaison zum Ende des Sommers liebäugeln einige große Fluggesellschaften mit der Pleite. Alex Chadwick bespricht mit Bob Moon von Marketplace die Zukunft einiger angeschlagener Fluggesellschaften.

卡特里娜飓风和飙升的油价给陷入困境的美国航空业带来了沉重的打击。随着夏季结束时传统上缓慢的旅行季节的临近，一些主要航空公司正面临破产。 亚历克斯·查德威克与市场的鲍勃·沐恩讨论了一些陷入困境的航空公司的未来。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: The first season of the British comedy "Fleabag" starred Phoebe Waller-Bridge as a brilliant but self-sabotaging young woman. It was dark, filthy and very, very funny. And now it's back for a second season on Amazon. NPR's Glen Weldon says the new episodes double down on what made the show unique but still have some big surprises. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: Look; "Fleabag" didn't need a Season 2. "Fleabag" Season 1 was the best thing on television back in 2016. A fiercely funny, scathingly smart series about a young woman who keeps giving into her impulses in order to distract herself from the recent death of her best friend. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: In just about every scene, Waller-Bridge would turn to the camera to confess her innermost thoughts to us as if we were that best friend. PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) You know that feeling when a guy you like sends you a text at 2 o'clock on a Tuesday night asking if he can come and find you, and you've accidentally made it out like you've just got in yourself, so you have to get out of bed, drink half a bottle of wine, get in the shower, shave everything, dig out some Agent Provocateur business, suspender belt - the whole bit - and wait by the door until the buzzer goes? GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: But it took until the sixth and final episode to learn that all along, she'd been keeping a secret from us - a big one. And no spoilers, but trust me, it was pretty shattering. That revelation, to say nothing of the jokes, the characters, the performances, made for a complete self-contained story that stuck the landing in a hugely satisfying way. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: But here we are, Season 2. It takes place about a year later. Things have changed for Waller-Bridge's character. She sums it up nicely at a therapist's office. FIONA SHAW: (As Counselor) So why do you think your father suggested you come for counseling? PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) I think because my mother died, and he can't talk about it. And my sister and I didn't speak for a year because she thinks I tried to sleep with her husband. And because I spent most of my adult life using sex to deflect from the screaming void inside my empty heart. I'm good at this. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: That last bit was directed at us. And she's not wrong; she is good. So is all of "Fleabag" Season 2, but for different reasons than Season 1. There's no central mystery this time around, no big secret at its core because Season 2 is about a person trying to get better. She's dealt with the loss of her friend, and she's much less likely to lunge into every bad choice that comes her way. She's even hanging out with her very disapproving sister again. SIAN CLIFFORD: (As Claire) Just don't talk too much or try to pretend you know anything about the company. PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) OK. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: Very, very disapproving sister. SIAN CLIFFORD: (As Claire) And don't be funny or clever, or just don't be the center of attention. These people are very important to me, so just don't. PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) OK. SIAN CLIFFORD: (As Claire) Don't be yourself. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: She finds a kind of kinship in a mentor played by Kristin Scott Thomas, who is great here. KRISTIN SCOTT THOMAS: (As Belinda) Women are born with pain built in. It's our physical destiny - period pain, sore boobs, childbirth, you know? We carry it within ourselves throughout our lives. Men don't. They have to seek it out. They invent these gods and demons and things so they can feel guilty about things, which is something we do very well on our own. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: She even starts hanging out at a church and reading the Bible, though that probably has a lot more to do with the fact that the local priest, played by the charming Andrew Scott, is pretty hot. PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) So you're a cool priest, are you? ANDREW SCOTT: (As The Priest) A cool priest? PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) Yeah. ANDREW SCOTT: (As The Priest) No. I'm a big reader with no friends. Are you a cool person? PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) I'm a pretty normal person. ANDREW SCOTT: (As The Priest) A normal person? PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) Yeah, a normal person. ANDREW SCOTT: (As The Priest) What makes you a normal person? PHOEBE WALLER-BRIDGE: (As Fleabag) Well, I don't believe in God. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: A portrait of Jesus falls off the wall. She's surprised, but he's - well, he's a cool priest. ANDREW SCOTT: (As The Priest) I love it when he does that. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: He can see past her defenses in a way nobody else has before, something the series has a lot of fun with. And their nuanced relationship provides "Fleabag" Season 2 with its humor and its heartbreak. This will be it for the series. Waller-Bridge is moving on to other projects. She created the BBC America hit "Killing Eve," among other things. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: If, like me, you were happy with "Fleabag" Season 1 and weren't particularly looking for a Season 2, rest assured these new episodes are just as blistering, just as funny, just as smart. But because they're about a person struggling to become more honest with herself and with others, they feel more expansive, more generous and even more satisfying. GLEN WELDON, BYLINE: Glen Weldon, NPR News.

The second season of the acclaimed Amazon series Fleabag brings back creator/writer/star Phoebe Waller-Bridge in her role as an angry, funny, mixed-up young woman living in London.

Die zweite Staffel der gefeierten Amazon-Serie Fleabag bringt die Schöpferin/Autorin/Star Phoebe Waller-Bridge in ihrer Rolle als wütende, lustige, durcheinandergebrachte junge Frau, die in London lebt, zurück.

备受赞誉的亚马逊系列剧《跳蚤袋》的第二季让创作者/作家/明星菲比·沃勒·布里奇重返舞台，她扮演了一位生活在伦敦的愤怒、滑稽、混乱的年轻女性。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: When Robert Mueller gave his only public statement on his report on Russian interference and alleged obstruction of justice, he took special care to emphasize one point. ROBERT MUELLER: There were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every American. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: And this past week, lawmakers were briefed by the intelligence community and law enforcement about what's being done about it. There's bipartisan concern about the 2020 election, but legislation to beef up security is stalled on Capitol Hill. NPR's Tim Mak joins us now with more. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Hey, Tim. TIM MAK, BYLINE: Hey, there. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So, Tim, we know that Russian agents used disinformation on social media in 2016. There was the hacking of the DNC. There was even the probing of election voting systems in Florida. So what has Congress done to address these issues? TIM MAK, BYLINE: So Congress has provided close to $400 million for election cybersecurity at the state and local level. Republicans like Senator Mitch McConnell have used this as well as the relative calm that surrounded the 2018 midterms as a reason to argue that no real additional work is necessary. MITCH MCCONNELL: I would anticipate that every member who attended the classified briefing likely came away feeling confident that big steps forward have taken place in the last two and a half years. TIM MAK, BYLINE: And this is a bipartisan feeling that there have been improvements over the last two and a half years. Here's Senator Mark Warner. He's the top Democrat on the intelligence committee. He's talking about law enforcement and the intelligence community. MARK WARNER: They definitely upped their game in 2018, but the Russians and others will be back. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: All right. So what are the proposals right now to do something if, indeed, bad actors come back and try and meddle in our elections? TIM MAK, BYLINE: So while Congress has allocated money to protect cyber systems, there's this entire, you know, information ecosystem out there that is vulnerable. Republican Senator Marco Rubio and Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen have a proposal that would impose automatic new sanctions against any foreign actors who interfere with an election in the future. Senator Mark Warner - he has another proposal that would require campaigns to report any foreign contacts that they've had to the FBI. And then there's a bill that has already passed the House. And that would authorize money for voting equipment, increase the standards for voting machines and require the use of paper records. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: All right. So a lot of proposals - but why hasn't Congress acted on some of these proposals to secure the elections? TIM MAK, BYLINE: So what's interesting is that Senator McConnell - he's the Senate majority leader. He gets to determine what gets brought up in the Senate. And he doesn't think that a lot of these proposals are necessary. MITCH MCCONNELL: Make no mistake. Many of the proposals labeled by Democrats to be election security are measures, in fact, for election reform that are part of the wish list of the left. TIM MAK, BYLINE: So that's not entirely true, right? - that - there are Republicans really concerned about this. Here's Senator Rubio talking about how he thinks election security is going to require constant adjustment. MARCO RUBIO: That threat's never going away. And, in fact, the number of actors who could carry it out is only going to increase in the years to come. TIM MAK, BYLINE: So this is hardly a partisan issue, despite what Senator McConnell has said about it. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Well, so, Tim, where does that leave us then? TIM MAK, BYLINE: It leaves leases really stalled. There isn't a public outcry. There isn't an urgency. And even Republicans who want something to be done on election security say there is no momentum to push it forward. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: That's NPR's Tim Mak. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Thank you so much. TIM MAK, BYLINE: Thanks a lot.

Legislation to secure federal elections is languishing in the Senate despite bipartisan concern over foreign interference.

Die Gesetzgebung zur Sicherung von Bundeswahlen liegt im Senat trotz der Besorgnis beider Parteien über ausländische Einmischung auf Eis.

尽管两党都对外国干涉表示担忧，但确保联邦选举安全的立法在参议院的地位正在下降。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Southern California is continuing to shake. More than 3,000 earthquakes have hit the region in the last few days. The largest, a massive one at 7.1 magnitude, on Friday night, rolled through Los Angeles, disrupted a poker tournament in Las Vegas and shook residents as far away as Phoenix. It was the largest earthquake to hit the region in decades. And seismologists warn that more could be on the way. NPR's Nathan Rott is near the epicenter of that large quake in Ridgecrest, Calif. And he joins us now. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Hi. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: Hey. Good morning, Lulu. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: I really do have a hard time imagining what more than 3,000 earthquakes even feels like. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: (Laughter). LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Is it just nonstop? NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: You know, it felt like that for a bit last night. There was a lot of shaking while I was trying to go to bed. But, no, it's not nonstop. You know, there are pauses or lulls. And it's funny because I asked that same question to the very first person I talked to when I got to town yesterday. Her name was Krystal McFadden, and here's how she describes it. KRYSTAL MCFADDEN: It's been like an overload of roller coasters (laughter). NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: And are you a roller coaster fan? KRYSTAL MCFADDEN: I was. Not now, I don't think so. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: So if you couldn't tell from her voice there, she is over it, and a lot of people here are. A smaller earthquake hit here last night while I was out eating dinner. It rattled these glasses above the bar, and the bartender was like, OK, I'm out. I got to go outside. You know, these smaller quakes are reminders of that big one, and that big one really scared a lot of people here. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Yeah. I mean, what are people telling you about that quake? A 7.1 magnitude earthquake is really, really big. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: Yeah, it's huge. And, you know, bear in mind; it was the second big earthquake to hit here. A 6.4 earthquake hit on the same fault on July Fourth - Independence Day. And that was the biggest to hit the area in about 20 years, so folks were already on edge. And then that big one - 11 times stronger - struck. And in some ways that was good. You know, people were better prepared. But I've heard of others who got thrown out of their beds, people who were working and tried to calm customers or their kids, you know, others who felt like they just froze. I was more than a hundred yards - or a hundred miles away in Los Angeles and felt it there, so I can't imagine what it would have been like here. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So now that you've been around this area, what has the damage to the area been like? What have you seen? NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: So to me, that is the most surprising part. You know, Ridgecrest is about 10 miles from the epicenter, and there really hasn't been as much damage as you might expect. Some trailers were thrown off their bases. There were a few structure fires from broken gas pipes. Some highways were fractured or buckled, most of which have already been repaired. You know, the state and federal government have promised to help. They signed off on emergency declarations in the last day, which should really help get, you know, inspections and repairs done more quickly. But overall, when you look at the scale of this incident and then you compare that to the damage, it's a little surprising. And that's something I've heard from a lot of people. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So what should people take from that? The U.S. Geological Survey is warning that more earthquakes are likely in the coming days and weeks. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: You know, so I haven't been to the grocery stores and seen the lines of people getting water, canned goods, batteries. I can tell you that people here are definitely preparing like maybe they weren't before. And I think that there's a hope that the same is true for the millions of people not far south from here in LA, who live on top of fault lines. I talked about that with Jonathan Stewart, a professor of civil engineering from the University of California, Los Angeles yesterday. And I asked him if this earthquake, you know, bad as it is for some, could be a blessing in disguise. JONATHAN STEWART: So to the extent that this event could wake us out of our slumber - let's realize, hey. We're living in Southern California. This is a very risky place for earthquakes. It's hard to find any more risky place in the world. Maybe we better prepare. If it helps us to do that, then it is a blessing in disguise. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: Because it's not a matter of if but when another big earthquake is coming here. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Indeed. That's NPR's Nathan Rott in Ridgecrest, Calif. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Thank you so much. NATHAN ROTT, BYLINE: Yeah. Thank you, Lulu.

The remote region of Ridgecrest, Calif., was hit by back-to-back earthquakes, the state's biggest in 20 years. The many powerful aftershocks have residents worried about what comes next.

Die abgelegene Region Ridgecrest, Kalifornien, wurde von zwei aufeinanderfolgenden Erdbeben erschüttert, den stärksten in den letzten 20 Jahren in diesem Staat. Die vielen starken Nachbeben machen den Bewohnern Sorgen, was als Nächstes kommt.

加州偏远地区里奇克莱斯特连续发生地震，这是该州20年来最严重的一次。许多强烈的余震让居民们担心接下来会发生什么。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: And now to the story of a royal marriage gone wrong and the geopolitical wrangling that has ensued because of it. Princess Haya Bint al-Hussein is the sixth wife of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai. The tale that follows involves allegations of kidnapping, possible infidelity and much more. To fill us in is the BBC's Frank Gardner, who has been following the story. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Good morning. FRANK GARDNER: Good morning, Lulu. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So Princess Haya is in London right now as far as we know. Why? FRANK GARDNER: So there are different versions to this. The rumor - and we're not in the business of spreading rumors. I'm only going to tell you that this is what people are saying from the Dubai side is that she has been having some kind of an affair or got too close to one of her bodyguards - a British bodyguard. But what her friends who know her very well have told me is that she is deeply concerned and afraid for her life after discovering details of the escape last year of her stepdaughter Sheikha Latifa, who is one of the daughters of Sheikh Mohammed. She was a 33-year-old Dubai princess who put a video out online saying if you're seeing this, then I have not managed to escape. And she fled by sea. She got as far as the coast of India. And there she was, essentially, recaptured by Indian and Emirati commandos. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: In fact, we have some of that video. Let's listen to a little bit of it. LATIFA BINT MOHAMMED AL MAKTOUM: They put me in prison and they tortured me. Basically, one guy was holding me while the other guy was beating me. And they did that repeatedly. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: I mean, this is very dramatic testimony from her. And so how does this intersect with Princess Haya? FRANK GARDNER: Because in December last year, Princess Haya invited Mary Robinson, who's the former Irish president and also human rights commissioner for the UN, formerly, to come and see for herself the state of Princess Latifa. And they both vouched for her, saying she's fine. She's clearly a troubled young lady. So basically, the official version was that she was mentally unstable and needed looking after. And Princess Haya, according to her friends, feels that she was, in some way, hoodwinked and given a wrong version of events. The bottom line is that Princess Haya is now in hiding in London, preparing for a legal battle, which we don't know exactly what it's going to be about - whether it's custody or money or whatever. But that is coming up at the end of July. So this is pretty embarrassing for the Dubai government. Why does it involve several countries? Princes Haya is the daughter of the former king of Jordan, King Hussein. And she is - that makes her the half-sister of the current king of Jordan. She has chosen to come to England, to Britain, where she was educated. Britain has very close ties to the UAE, so this is, potentially, a very awkward diplomatic spat between two close allies - Britain and the United Arab Emirates. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: And just finally, it also brings into question the treatment of women in Dubai and particularly by Sheikh Al Maktoum. FRANK GARDNER: Arab ruling families are particularly watchful over the female members of the family. The men have a - far more freedom, but the honor of the family rests with the women. This is why it's really kind of lifted a bit of a lid on the gilded palace life. It's very clear from the testimony in the video of Sheikha Latifa that she was in a kind of gilded cage. Now, many people would say she had every possible luxury, what - she wanted for nothing. But she, obviously, didn't want to be there. She wanted to get away and live a normal life, and that wasn't being offered to her. The same happened to Sheikha Shamsa, another sister who tried to escape in 2000 and is now in Dubai, back in the palace. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: That's the BBC's Frank Gardner in London. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Thank you very much. FRANK GARDNER: Thank you, Lulu. FRANK GARDNER: (SOUNDBITE OF FUTURE ISLANDS' "SEASONS (WAITING ON YOU)"

NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro asks the BBC's Frank Gardner why Haya Bint al-Hussein, the wife of Dubai's ruler, is said to be in hiding in London.

Lulu Garcia-Navarro von NPR fragt Frank Gardner von der BBC, warum Haya Bint al-Hussein, die Frau des Herrschers von Dubai, sich in London verstecken soll.

美国国家公共广播电台新闻的露露·加西亚-纳瓦罗问BBC记者弗兰克·加德纳，为何称迪拜酋长的妻子哈亚·宾特·侯赛因现在躲在伦敦。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: The U.S. House of Representatives is letting fly the subpoenas - for testimony from former White House counsel Don McGahn, for records from President Trump's accounting firm and for a civil rights division official on the addition of a citizenship question to the census. The president's response... PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're fighting all the subpoenas. Look. These aren't, like, impartial people. The Democrats are trying to win 2020. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So what happens next? To help us consider that, we're joined by Danny Cevallos. He's a legal analyst for NBC and MSNBC and co-founder of the law firm Cevallos & Wong. Thanks for coming on. DANNY CEVALLOS: Thank you for having me. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So I should start by saying that the president wanted to fight all the subpoenas. But apparently he has caved, at least on one of them. The White House will allow former security clearance official Carl Kline to sit down for a voluntary transcribed interview. How should we understand that move? DANNY CEVALLOS: It's interesting because administrations in the past have either flatly refused or at least imposed their own conditions on having executive branch officials testify or provide documents. History is full of examples of the executive branch resisting these subpoenas or these requests and resisting contempt charges that are brought afterwards. And ultimately, Congress relies on the Department of Justice, which is part of the executive branch, to prosecute or even bring these contempt charges to a grand jury. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So where does that leave all the other subpoenas though? I mean, obviously this was a high-profile one, but it's one of many. DANNY CEVALLOS: It's one of many subpoenas. And frankly, I'm surprised the Trump administration is willing to play ball like this. They know from history that time is on the side of the executive branch. And if they really want to oppose these subpoenas and take it to the courts, if enough time passes, there may be a new Congress. And those congressional subpoenas only last as long as the current Congress. DANNY CEVALLOS: The second thing, too, is that if Congress wants to even hold executive branch officials in contempt, the law says that the DOJ or the executive branch, the U.S. attorney, shall present the case to a grand jury. But history also has shown us that that word, shall, is largely meaningless. The executive branch simply can refuse to prosecute people in their own executive branch for criminal contempt for defying a Congressional subpoena. So Congress needs the cooperation of the executive branch. The executive branch doesn't necessarily need the cooperation of Congress. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: You know, there's been words like constitutional crisis bandied about, also that this is somehow unprecedented. But you're putting this into a historical perspective and saying, actually, there is a long history of the White House being resistant to these kinds of subpoenas from Congress. DANNY CEVALLOS: It doesn't happen often, but it's definitely happened. It happened to Harriet Miers in the Bush administration. It happened to Eric Holder in the Obama administration. But history also shows us that in virtually none of these occasions does the executive branch or the DOJ prosecute these cases. So it's really Congress' right but without any real remedy. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: The wider context of this, of course, is that Congress has the right of oversight. It's written into the Constitution. If Trump succeeds in fighting off many of these subpoenas, what does it mean for the power of congressional oversight? DANNY CEVALLOS: It means probably the same thing it's meant for many decades about the power of congressional oversight over the executive branch, which is it's largely undefined. Going back to the Nixon case, which first gave us a real definition of executive power or executive privilege to resist a congressional subpoena, all that really taught us is that there is an executive privilege, but it's not absolute. That leaves a lot of gray area and a lot of area for the courts to flesh out. DANNY CEVALLOS: And that's why these cases often end in cooperation, as we're already seeing in just the last few hours or days, that - we probably will see even more cooperation in the coming hours and days from the executive branch and from the White House, which - I mean, it's in their interest to avoid a prolonged battle. But this is a White House that has shown that normally, it's not afraid of a battle. So it's rather a surprise that they would capitulate on even this issue. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Danny Cevallos is a legal analyst for NBC and MSNBC. Thank you so much. DANNY CEVALLOS: Thank you.

With subpoenas flying over everything from financial records to security clearances, President Trump has vowed to fight them off. Legal analyst Danny Cevallos talks to NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro.

Präsident Trump hat geschworen, sich gegen die zahlreichen Vorladungen zu wehren, die von Finanzunterlagen bis hin zu Sicherheitsüberprüfungen reichen. Der Rechtsanalyst Danny Cevallos spricht mit Lulu Garcia-Navarro von NPR.

从财务记录到安全审查，传票铺天盖地，特朗普总统发誓要击退它们。法律分析师丹尼·切瓦洛斯接受美国国家公共广播电台记者露露·加西亚·纳瓦罗的采访。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: As many as a million species of animals and plants are at risk of extinction, many within decades. That's according to a new United Nations report on biodiversity. The report is dire, but there is good news. Many of those trends can be reversed. So what can we do, as individuals, to help? Andrew Deutz from The Nature Conservancy joins us now to explain more. His organization contributed research to the report. Welcome to the program. ANDREW DEUTZ: Thank you. I'm pleased to be here. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Let's start with your views on these findings. You've been working on these issues for a very long time. Were they surprising? ANDREW DEUTZ: Not really, but only because I've been working on these issues for a long time. We've seen the trends that have been happening around the world. The report is a wakeup call that we are utilizing species and the services that ecosystems and nature provide faster than the planet is able to regenerate them. And if we continue on that trend, it's likely to undermine our ability to maintain our health and prosperity for future generations. So we have this global biodiversity crisis. At the same time, we have a global climate crisis. And we have to solve them both together. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Are there things that we - humans generally and Americans in particular - can do to change or alter our behavior and try to head off this extinction apocalypse? ANDREW DEUTZ: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot we can do as citizens in terms of supporting policies and politicians who are prepared to face these challenges and look at them as investment opportunities and improving our livelihoods and our health. But there's also a lot we can do as consumers. So the biggest commodities that are responsible for tropical deforestation are beef, soy, oil palm and pulp and paper. ANDREW DEUTZ: So if we're conscientious consumers, we can demand that companies provide those products sustainably and that we, particularly, make decisions every time we're in the grocery store about those - or making sure that we're getting them sustainably sourced. The other thing we can do is always use renewable energy. I mean, I - here, I live in the Washington, D.C., area. And my electric utility allows me to purchase 100% renewable energy, which means that helps solve the climate problem. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: And what about something that I could do in my own backyard? ANDREW DEUTZ: Well, one of the species that - or one of the challenges that's called out in this report are declines in the populations of pollinators around the world - so birds and bats and bees, quite literally. In the United States and Europe, they're declining by about 40%. In most of the rest of the world, we don't have good data to know how much they're declining. But about a half a trillion dollars a year - trillion with a T - in agricultural products depend on those pollinators. So you can do things in your own backyard to make them pollinator friendly, to plant the right kind of plants and grasses and flowers that those species of bees and birds depend on and not use pesticides that harm them. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Obviously there's a clock running, though. I mean, time is short. ANDREW DEUTZ: Everything - well, the challenge is we need to do it. We need to do it now. And we need to do sort of everything at once. One of the cheapest, most readily available and cost-effective things that we can do to both solve the biodiversity crisis and the climate crisis is, first, stop deforestation and, second, restore forests and then, third, change our agricultural practices to increase soil carbon and soil health. And the interesting thing is that can actually increase productivity to feed a hungry world and make our agriculture more resilient to climate change. So the point is there are a bunch of things where nature is actually the best solution provider to the climate crisis if we manage it right. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Andrew Deutz is the international director of government relations at The Nature Conservancy. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Thank you so much. ANDREW DEUTZ: Thank you.

It's not too late to make a difference. NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro speaks with Andrew Deutz of The Nature Conservancy about the U.N. extinction report and what can be done to reverse the damage.

Es ist nicht zu spät, einen Unterschied zu machen. Lulu Garcia-Navarro von NPR spricht mit Andrew Deutz von The Nature Conservancy über den UN-Aussterbebericht und was getan werden kann, um den Schaden rückgängig zu machen.

现在做出改变为时不晚。美国国家公共广播电台记者露露·加西亚·纳瓦罗采访大自然保护协会全球政策、机构和保护金融主任安德鲁·道依茨，两人探讨了联合国有关物种灭绝的报告及如何扭转破这种破坏。

SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: This week, Congress and the public await the expected release of the Mueller report - or at least what Attorney General William Barr is willing to let them see. What will it say? How much will it be redacted? What will the president tweet about it? Joining me now to discuss this and other political news of the day is national political correspondent Mara Liasson. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Good morning, Mara. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Good morning, Sacha. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Mara, when the Mueller report comes out, what are the key elements Congress will be looking for? MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Well, Congress has asked for the report and all the underlying investigative materials. It's - I doubt they'll get everything that they want, so there's going to be a big fight about getting as much material as they're calling for. What we're watching for is what in the report explains why Bob Mueller decided not to make a conclusion about obstruction of justice. We'll be looking and Congress will be looking for what he says about Russian contacts with the Trump campaign. He didn't think any of them rose to the legal crime of conspiracy. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: But, you know, Congress is very suspicious of Attorney General William Barr's redactions because last week he repeated the unfounded claim of the president that somehow the Justice Department had spied on Trump and his campaign. It was court-approved surveillance, surveillance approved by a judge. But suspicions are now running high. And the president has tweeted - why should the Democrats in Congress have a right to examine the report? - which is a very basic, simple question with a simple answer. Article 1 says that Congress is a separate and equal branch of government and they have a right to oversee the Justice Department. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: So he has been now, again, calling the report treasonous and saying that it should not be released after previously he said he was fine with it coming out. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Right. And what do you make of that? So why the criticism of it while sort of simultaneously claiming that it largely clears him? MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Well, I think originally, he really wanted to establish a narrative based on Barr's summary of the Mueller report - that it completely exonerated him. Then there were a whole bunch of reports that the summary did not accurately reflect what was in the report and the suggestion that there were a lot of negative things in that report about the president. So he went back to attacking the Mueller report - trying to undermine its credibility - so that when it does come out, he can dismiss it as a partisan witch hunt. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: And is that undermining campaign viewed as working? MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Actually not. And what's so interesting about public opinion since Barr's summary was released is that it hasn't really moved at all. Big chunks of the public still believe the president has not been exonerated despite the fact that he's been repeating that he's been totally and completely exonerated. And that's because so much of the American public is so locked in. Seventy percent of Americans are - either strongly disapprove of Donald Trump or strongly approve of him. It's about, you know, 40 who strongly disapprove, about 29 who strongly approve. It shows you that even though he can dominate the media narrative, he can't always win the argument. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Different issue, which is WikiLeaks, which was in the news this week - last week, Trump said, I know nothing about WikiLeaks. That's quite different from when he said, I love WikiLeaks, during the 2016 campaign. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: He actually said that about 141 times, either on tape - on video - or in tweets. And what that shows you is that - how confident he is that he can sit in the Oval Office and say, I don't know anything about WikiLeaks, knowing that every TV station in the world is going to start playing all the tape of him saying how much he loved WikiLeaks during the campaign. It shows you how confident he is that the norms and rules about how presidents should be accurate and truthful do not apply to him. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: And presumably, he'll think the same in terms of issues he's expected to run on, like immigration. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Well, immigration is the No. 1 issue the president ran on in 2016. He's going to run on it again in 2020. And of course, he's been very, very frustrated because more and more families are coming to the border to apply for asylum. And he has offered a bunch of different proposals - closing the border, shutting down the asylum system - and nothing seems to be working. The latest thing that he is proposing is to take these asylum-seekers and send them to sanctuary cities, cities that have decided to limit their cooperation with immigration authorities. Here's what he said. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And they want more people in their sanctuary cities. Well, we'll give them more people. We can give them a lot. We can give them an unlimited supply. And let's see if they're so happy. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Yeah. So you can see here, on the one hand, this is a bit of a self-own because immigrants would love to be sent to San Francisco and cities that are welcoming to them. The mayors of those cities have already said, fine, we'll take it. So in his effort to own the libs (ph), he has used policy and families as pawns to punish his political opponents. And that certainly breaks another norm. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: That's NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Thanks, Mara. MARA LIASSON, BYLINE: Thank you.

This week, Congress and the public await the expected release of the Mueller report — or at least what Attorney General William Barr is willing to let them see.

Diese Woche warten der Kongress und die Öffentlichkeit auf die erwartete Veröffentlichung des Mueller-Berichts – oder zumindest das, was Generalstaatsanwalt William Barr ihnen zu zeigen bereit ist.

本周，国会和公众等待穆勒报告的预期发布——或者至少是司法部长威廉·巴尔愿意让他们看到的内容。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: And now to Gaza - it's been one year since Palestinians there began protesting at the Israeli fence, calling for Israel to ease a blockade on Gaza. Israel has called the protests violent riots, drawing a deadly response from Israeli troops, including yesterday. Gaza officials said troops killed at least four young Palestinians. NPR's Daniel Estrin has our story from Jerusalem, as both sides are trying to negotiate a truce. DANIEL ESTRIN, BYLINE: Gaza health officials say the protesters killed include three 17-year-olds and a 20-year-old. They say dozens of protesters were rushed to hospitals with bullet wounds. The Israeli army said it was responding to Palestinians throwing rocks and grenades at the fence. But despite all this, the Hamas militant group that rules in Gaza didn't vow revenge. And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a statement that there had been calm. Retired Israeli Brigadier General Yossi Kuperwasser. YOSSI KUPERWASSER: Definitely, this was nothing extraordinary and much, much, much less than what people who were worried about and thought that we should expect some sort of escalation - widescale escalation. That has not happened. DANIEL ESTRIN, BYLINE: Just days ago, it appeared as if the two sides were on the brink of major fighting when rocket fire from Gaza hit a house in Israel. And Israel carried out airstrikes on Hamas. Israel sent more troops to the Gaza border, prepping for yesterday's mass demonstration. But Hamas officials reined in the protests. They're in talks with Egyptian mediators to reduce violence in exchange for Israel relaxing some of its restrictions on Gaza to help ease an economic crisis there. Despite some minor cross-border violence this morning, Hamas claims it's close to reaching a deal. Israel hasn't confirmed that. But Israel does seek quiet with elections just a little over a week away. The question is if an agreement can be reached with Israel and Hamas that will put an end to a year of Gaza protests that cost the lives of some 200 Palestinians and one Israeli soldier. Daniel Estrin, NPR News, Jerusalem.

On the first anniversary of major protests at the border fence between Israel and Gaza, demonstrations were calmer than usual, but four Palestinians were killed.

Am ersten Jahrestag der großen Proteste am Grenzzaun zwischen Israel und Gaza verliefen die Demonstrationen ruhiger als üblich, aber vier Palästinenser wurden getötet.

正值以色列和加沙之间的边界围栏发生重大抗议活动一周年之际，示威游行比往常平静，但有四名巴勒斯坦人丧生了。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta is the Vatican's top sex crimes investigator. He joins us now from Rome. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Welcome to the program. CHARLES SCICLUNA: Thank you. Thank you, Lulu. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: The pope ended the summit calling for all-out battle against abuse by priests. What does that mean? CHARLES SCICLUNA: It means that the guidelines we have, the laws we have need to be implemented across the board. But it also means a change of heart. He talked about conversion because this is a fight against one of the greatest evils. And this is, obviously, theological language. But it is a very important language for us. The pope, actually, put the abuse of kids and cover-up of that abuse on the same level of gravity. And we need to get it right. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: What are the next steps though? For example, former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick was defrocked earlier this month. In fact, you were instrumental in that decision. Victims want zero tolerance and that all priests who are found guilty have the same thing happen. Will it? CHARLES SCICLUNA: Well, first of all, that is the law for the United States of America and Canada. Victims also need to be reminded that we need to be reminded of the very important words by Saint John Paul II, who said that people should know that there is no place in the priesthood for anybody who would harm the young, who would harm our kids. And this has to be the way forward. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So you think that the pope now will embrace that for every single diocese in the world. CHARLES SCICLUNA: I think that the quote from Saint John Paul II has been policy since 2002. Now we need to audit ourselves in order to make sure that that is the case. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Are you saying that this needs to happen everywhere now? When a priest has been convicted of a sex crime, he should be defrocked everywhere. CHARLES SCICLUNA: I wouldn't say defrocked. He should not be in ministry. And that is something that people need to know. He will not be in parishes. He will not be around with kids. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: You have been working on clerical sex abuse cases for decades. You are the top investigator now. Under Benedict, now Pope Emeritus, you were the church's top sex crimes prosecutor, before that, the Vatican's promoter of justice. And yet this problem persists. Why has it persisted? And is there something that you think should've been done earlier? CHARLES SCICLUNA: Well, sin will always be with us. And crime will always happen. I don't think that we can guarantee that no unfortunate incident of sex abuse will ever happen again. But we will do whatever it takes to prevent it from happening. This is something that we owe our church, we owe our faith community. Yet... LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Are there any regrets on your part, though, Archbishop? - because the church is in crisis. CHARLES SCICLUNA: Well, I think crisis is also an opportunity. And I think that this is a moment where we need to listen to the victims, to the communities there asking that we get it right. This will not go away easily. This will create a lot of hurt. But the United States has moved - I'm talking about the Catholic Church in the United States - has moved forward since 2002. The United States Catholic Church is an example of good practice. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Archbishop, why should anyone trust that the church will do anything different? We're talking tens of thousands of victims - conservatively - a culture of secrecy that hid crimes, that protected abusers, that silenced victims. These new revelations continue. Why should they trust the church? CHARLES SCICLUNA: That is a legitimate question. We need to own our credibility on a day by day basis. And there is no easy way to be credible but doing the right thing. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta, thank you so much. CHARLES SCICLUNA: Thank you. Thank you, Lulu.

NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro speaks with Archbishop Charles Scicluna, top Vatican sex crimes investigator, about the sex abuse summit that ends Sunday.

Lulu Garcia-Navarro von NPR spricht mit Erzbischof Charles Scicluna, dem führenden Ermittler für Sexualverbrechen des Vatikans, über den Gipfel des sexuellen Missbrauchs, der am Sonntag endet.

美国全国公共广播电台新闻的露露·加西亚-纳瓦罗采访了梵蒂冈首席性犯罪调查官查尔斯·斯齐克鲁纳大主教，谈论周日结束的性虐待峰会。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Got milk? Food banks in the United States are overflowing with it, but that's not necessarily a good thing. The cause of the oversupply is the U.S.'s trade disputes. The federal government has been buying up surplus milk to help out dairy farmers hurt by the trade wars, which has led to the glut at food banks. Glynis Board of the Ohio Valley ReSource team tells us more. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: At Facing Hunger Food Bank, Executive Director Cyndi Kirkhart steps into her agency's walk-in refrigerator in Huntington, W.Va. CYNDI KIRKHART: This is the only cooler we have. So this is Kentucky milk, and this is West Virginia. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: There's not very much space. CYNDI KIRKHART: No. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: There's so much milk, they've often had to store it inside their refrigerated trucks and keep them running all night. Every couple of weeks since November, Kirkhart's operation has gotten about 8,000 half-gallon cartons of milk. CYNDI KIRKHART: We never have received what we refer to as fluid milk, which is fresh milk. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: Donations from the federal government are normal, but products usually have a long shelf life - months or years. Milk lasts maybe two weeks. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: The dairy industry is already producing plenty of surplus milk, and recent trade disputes with the Trump administration made the situation worse. Jim Goodman is a former dairy farmer who now heads up the National Farm Coalition (ph). JIM GOODMAN: Twenty-five percent of our dairy exports probably go to China. And probably another 25 percent of them goes to Mexico. Both of those countries put a tariff on in response to the steel and aluminum tariffs. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: The Trump administration released $12 billion last year to bail out farmers. Ten percent of that was put toward purchasing commodities, like milk, to be distributed for hunger relief. JOSHUA LOHNES: Whose responsibility is it to get rid of this milk? GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: Joshua Lohnes is a researcher at West Virginia University. He explains the donated perishable food doesn't come with money to offset extra administrative costs associated with storage and distribution. JOSHUA LOHNES: It costs the food banks $2 a mile to deliver this, quote, unquote, "free food" across this vast, rural landscape. So they are advocating, you know, with our state legislators and the powers that be at the Department of Ag to try to figure out how to not have all of this surplus pretty much tank their operation. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: In Huntington, Kirkhart says food banks like hers do get some federal financial support for administrative costs, but it doesn't match the increases in overhead created by perishable donations. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: Still, she feels she has to accept them, despite logistical difficulties, because the need in her region is so great. Two hundred and eighty-five thousand people throughout West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and southeastern Ohio are food insecure. CYNDI KIRKHART: We're going to keep on keeping on. And I know that we have a lot of love in this community around our service area, and people will help us through because that's what Appalachians do. GLYNIS BOARD, BYLINE: Even if accepting these donations threatens her food bank's continued existence. For NPR News, I'm Glynis Board in Huntington, W.Va.

Tariffs announced by the Trump administration have led to a glut of milk in the United States. Food pantries are suffering because they're deluged with milk and have no way to store or distribute it.

Die von der Trump-Administration angekündigten Zölle haben zu einer Milchschwemme in den USA geführt. Speisekammern leiden, weil sie mit Milch überschwemmt sind und keine Möglichkeit haben, sie zu lagern oder zu verteilen.

特朗普政府宣布的关税政策导致美国牛奶过剩。因为无法储存或分发这些牛奶，食品储藏室挤压过多，损失惨重。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: In Carson City tomorrow, Nevada's legislature is meeting. And in a first for the United States, women will outnumber men. NPR's Leila Fadel reports. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: At Nevada Governor Steve Sisolak' State of the State speech, he hailed the new legislature. STEVE SISOLAK: Tonight we are joined by the newly elected and appointed women who took a leap this past year and, together, made history. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: Like the country, it's just over 50 percent women. And Patricia Ann Spearman, a Nevada senator and Democrat, says, finally. PATRICIA ANN SPEARMAN: I'm starting to see some of the fruits of not just my labor but the labor of so many other people whose names I don't know. But the fruits of their labor are present and undeniable. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: Spearman is 64, a black woman, a lesbian, a retired lieutenant colonel in the army and an ordained minister. PATRICIA ANN SPEARMAN: I've had to fight for everything that I have. All the titles - none of that was given to me. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: She was first elected as state senator in 2012. PATRICIA ANN SPEARMAN: I think what has happened in Nevada is women, in particular - and we have had some men to support this - have said, it's time to do away with the patriarchy that holds people down. It's just time to do away with that. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: Nevada has been leading when it comes to electing women. They are now the majority in the state Supreme Court. The lieutenant governor is a woman. On the federal level, both U.S. senators are women. And half of the state's U.S. representatives are women. Nevada isn't the rule, though. Kelly Dittmar is a scholar at the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. KELLY DITTMAR: Getting to 50 percent in any one place is something significant. At the same point, this is one legislature out of 50. So we still have a lot of progress left to make across the country. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: But why has it taken this long to get here? Dittmar says, of course, there was the formal exclusion of women from politics. Women couldn't run or vote. Since then, there's been the informal exclusion based on gender stereotypes, like women can't lead. Also, men have just been doing this a lot longer. KELLY DITTMAR: Men in party leadership, political leadership, those are the people who are tapping candidates - right? - who are recruiting candidates to run and deciding who gets on the ballot. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: And while Nevada's milestone is remarkable, progress around the country has been slow. Right now less than 30 percent of state legislators across the U.S. are women. Less than 25 percent of Congress is female. And the data show the only way to reach gender parity is to nominate more women. The Democrats are doing that. About 70 percent of women state legislators are Democrats. And overall, Republican women lost seats in the last election. And that's because far fewer women were nominated from that party. Jill Tolles, a Republican Nevada Assembly member, says she's working within her party to make sure there's recruiting and mentorship. JILL TOLLES: Before I ran for office, I did look at the makeup and think, wow. There's just not as many females in the Republican Party. And how do we change that? LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: Tolles says women in particular are reaching across the aisle in Nevada with a bipartisan, bicameral Women's Caucus. JILL TOLLES: We were able to come together over the areas where we share common ground and be able to advance some access to women's health care, like breast cancer screenings and access to birth control. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: This milestone, she says, is a continuation of that work. Both Assemblywoman Tolles and Senator Spearman are headed back to Carson City. But Selena Torres is serving for the first time. She's 23 and a high school English teacher. SELENA TORRES: It's really exciting to be a part of this female majority but also to be a Latina sitting in that majority. I mean, when you have students that are recognizing, maybe for the first time, that they too have the ability to be involved and run for office - and it truly highlights the importance of having us in office. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: She's only a few years older than her students in a largely Latino district in southern Nevada. Over a quarter of the state is Latino. Torres says Nevada has always been a pioneering state with women trailblazers. SELENA TORRES: When you think about Nevada, we think about the Wild West. And I think in a lot of ways, Nevada still is the Wild West. LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: She says this place isn't afraid to do things that others haven't. Leila Fadel, NPR News, Las Vegas.

It's the year of women in Nevada. On Monday, the state becomes the first to have a legislature where women outnumber men. The state's supreme court also has a majority of women.

Es ist das Jahr der Frauen in Nevada. Am Montag wird der Staat die erste Legislative haben, in der mehr Frauen als Männer vertreten sind. Auch der Oberste Gerichtshof des Staates ist mehrheitlich mit Frauen besetzt.

今年是内华达州的女性之年。周一，该州成为第一个立法机构女性多于男性的州。该州最高法院的女性也占多数。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: This week is the first anniversary of the Parkland shooting. And a lot has changed since that terrible day - among other things, the composition of the U.S. Supreme Court. For the first time in nearly a decade, the justices this spring will take up a gun case. Under the constitutional microscope will be a New York City gun law that bans carrying a licensed and unloaded handgun outside the city limits. Here's NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled for the first time that the Constitution guarantees a right to own a gun for self-defense in the home. Justice Antonin Scalia wrote the opinion striking down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns. ANTONIN SCALIA: We hold that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to have and use arms for self-defense in the home and that the District's handgun ban, as well as its requirement that firearms in the home be rendered inoperative, violates that right. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: The vote was 5-4, with Justice Anthony Kennedy casting the fifth and decisive vote. The court's opinion did have some important caveats, added at Kennedy's insistence according to knowledgeable sources. The court said nothing in its decision should, quote, "cast doubt" on various longstanding gun laws, including those banning guns for felons and the mentally ill or those forbidding guns in sensitive places, like schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions on the sale of guns. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: Two years later, the court applied the same rules to the states. That still left lots of questions unanswered. And in the following decade, gun rights activists brought dozens of challenges to existing gun laws across the country. The court, however, refused to hear those challenges, leaving in place lower-court rulings that, almost without exception, upheld gun regulations. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: Last month, however, that changed. With Trump appointee Brett Kavanaugh replacing the more moderate Justice Kennedy, the court agreed to jump back into the gun debate in the case from New York. UCLA law professor Adam Winkler, who's written extensively about gun rights, says the case is potentially huge. ADAM WINKLER: How the court rules on this case could have an impact on whether states can ban military-style assault rifles or high-capacity magazines or adopt red flag laws that enable people who are dangerous to have their guns removed. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: The New York City ordinance that the court will rule on bars licensed handgun owners from carrying their guns locked and unloaded outside their homes, except to any one of the seven shooting ranges inside the city. Beyond that, handgun owners are not allowed to carry their weapons to a second home elsewhere in the state or to cross the Hudson River to New Jersey either, or anywhere else in the city - at least not without a difficult-to-obtain license to carry. Those challenging the city ordinance maintain the law thus violates their right to bear arms and their right to travel. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: The lower courts upheld the ordinance as a reasonable attempt at protecting public safety and preventing gun violence in the city. But the Supreme Court today is far more hostile to gun regulation than it has ever been before. There is little doubt about where eight of the justices stand. The court's four liberals have generally deferred to gun regulations, while four of the court's conservatives have adamantly questioned most regulations. Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Neil Gorsuch such have all written or signed on to dissenting opinions, suggesting that they view the right to bear arms as a fundamental right, much like the right to free speech - not an absolute right, but close. NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: Trump appointee Brett Kavanaugh, as a lower court judge, expressed a similar view. In a lengthy dissenting opinion, he strenuously disagreed with his colleagues when they upheld a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines in the District of Columbia. He said then, quote, "it is not for judges to weigh public safety in evaluating whether a gun law is constitutional. Weapons should be permissible if they are in common use today and have not been traditionally banned." NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: That leaves just one member of the court, Chief Justice John Roberts, whose views are unknown. A decade ago, he was among the five justices to strike down a handgun ban in the District of Columbia. But since then, he's said nothing more about where to draw the line when governments enact gun regulations in the name of public safety. Ultimately, his vote in this and other gun cases in the future will likely be decisive. Nina Totenberg, NPR News, Washington.

The Supreme Court is poised to take up a guns case for the first time in nearly a decade. And with a newly conservative majority, it could reshape gun rights and restrictions across the country.

Der Oberste Gerichtshof steht kurz davor, zum ersten Mal seit fast einem Jahrzehnt einen Waffenfall zu verhandeln. Und mit einer neuen konservativen Mehrheit könnte es die Waffenrechte und -beschränkungen im ganzen Land neu gestalten.

最高法院近十年来第一次准备受理枪支案。随着保守派占大多数，它可以重塑全国的枪支权利和限制。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: The movies "If Beale Street Could Talk" and "Vice" are about very different things. One's an adaptation of the James Baldwin novel about love and racial justice in 1970s New York. The other's a satire about Dick Cheney. But both share one notable thing. They're scored by the same composer. As Tim Greiving reports, he's got a growing fan club of directors. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: Nicholas Britell is an enigma. He's a curly-headed, bespectacled Jewish guy from New York who trained to be a concert pianist, taking classes at Juilliard when he was 14. Then he dropped off that track and went to Harvard, where he majored in psychology and was part of a live hip-hop band called The Witness Protection Program. Conveniently, no audio evidence was preserved. Then he went to work on Wall Street, managing a hedge fund at Bear Stearns before the Great Recession hit. ADAM MCKAY: The hedge fund manager is the one that really gets me. I mean, like, really successful in New York City and, like - I mean, it is a crazy thing. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: Director Adam McKay found Britell when he was working on the 2015 film about the recession, "The Big Short." TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: Britell wrote a score that approximated the sound of dark math. McKay liked the musical ideas he was hearing from Britell. He was a little miffed when the composer started sending back notes about the financial jargon in the script until he realized just who this guy was. Britell abandoned his Wall Street career in 2010 to pursue a dream he'd had ever since he heard the music for "Chariots Of Fire" when he was 5 years old. NICHOLAS BRITELL: Every movie is different. And every movie, you get to explore different characters, different worlds. That's really what fascinates me. And I think that's what continually excites me about the process because no two movies are alike. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: When McKay started working on "Vice," his Dick Cheney film, he brought Britell on at the beginning. ADAM MCKAY: Nick was, like, four months ahead of us with his music than we were with the edit. He was clearly, like, seeing things that we were, like, still trying to figure out with the edit. ADAM MCKAY: It felt like dark Copeland or the movie "Giant," but, like, a little more screwed up. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: After "The Big Short," Nicholas Britell scored "Moonlight," which earned him his first Oscar nomination. Like Adam McKay, "Moonlight" director Barry Jenkins hadn't heard of Britell before then. And he couldn't imagine any other composer scoring his next film, even though "If Beale Street Talk" is a distinctly African-American story. BARRY JENKINS: For me, it would be one thing if Nick was the kind of composer who imposed his will on the film. Then I think the cultural distance or dissonance might come into play because then Nick is trying to force his experience on the film. But I think what I discovered very early on in the "Moonlight" process was how well he is able to receive the spirit of the film, the essence of the film, the energy of the film and then reflect that, you know, in his sound. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: The "Beale Street" score has jazzy, brassy harmonies and themes for each of the different kinds of love that the film explores - parent-child love, friendship, divine love. Britell's theme for erotic love between the characters Tish and Fonny features the solo cello playing of his own wife, Caitlin Sullivan. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: Britell experimented with various iterations of that love theme as he was developing the score, including a rendition on six saxophones... NICHOLAS BRITELL: Here... TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: ...Which Jenkins did not care for. BARRY JENKINS: (Laughter). NICHOLAS BRITELL: There we go. BARRY JENKINS: (Laughter) Turn it off. Turn it off. NICHOLAS BRITELL: (Laughter). BARRY JENKINS: Turn it off. Turn it off. But now play "Hypertension"... NICHOLAS BRITELL: And then... BARRY JENKINS: ...Because out of this, we somehow arrive at... BARRY JENKINS: The saxophone sextet that's playing the "Eros" love theme of Tish and Fonny somehow, through mutation, becomes... NICHOLAS BRITELL: Yes. BARRY JENKINS: ...The sound of doom as represented by Ed Skrein as Officer Bell. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: Directors love working with Britell not only because of the emotion and cleverness in his music. Adam McKay says it's really about the kind of collaborator he is. ADAM MCKAY: In the improv world, they try and drill it into you. Yes, and; yes, and - you have to add something he just naturally lives in a yes, and state. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: But do McKay and Jenkins have to fight over Nicholas Britell, especially when he's scoring both of their films at the same time? Jenkins says no. BARRY JENKINS: No, it wasn't a fight. It was kind of awesome because there were times where I would walk into the studio, and Adam would be there. And he'd sit down. He'd nod his head. He'd go, yeah, so that nine cellos track, huh? BARRY JENKINS: And I would just laugh because I'd be like, yeah, that one's mine. NICHOLAS BRITELL: He was a big fan of the nine cellos. TIM GREIVING, BYLINE: With friends like that, who needs a hedge fund? For NPR News, I'm Tim Greiving.

Two of the buzziest movies this year, "If Beale Street Could Talk" and "Vice," have this in common: composer Nicholas Britell.

Zwei der angesagtesten Filme dieses Jahres, \"If Beale Street Could Talk\" und \"Vice\", haben eines gemeinsam: den Komponisten Nicholas Britell.

今年最热门的两部电影《如果比尔街会说话》和《罪恶》都有一个共同点：都有作曲家尼古拉斯·布瑞泰尔。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: For years, if you wanted to save money on an Apple laptop, you could buy a used one on Amazon from one of many independent sellers. On January 4, those days will be over. Amazon is kicking small businesses who resell Apple products off its site. NPR's James Doubek reports. JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: Paul Budde's (ph) basement shelves are filled with laptops, iPads, screens, cables and packing material. He makes a living selling used computers and accessories from his home in St. Louis. But he buys old Apple computers, sometimes as many as 50 at a time, and fixes them up. He even upgrades some. For most people, buying a new Apple computer is expensive. Most models run at least $1,300 or more. That's why, Budde says, people often look into buying something used online. PAUL BUDDE: They can, you know, look on Amazon and find something that's been refurbished that's an older one that still works good. And they can get into trying out a MacBook Pro for, like, $500. JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: Resellers like Budde say Amazon is a huge part of how they sell their stuff. For him, it's 90 percent of sales. But starting January 4, he's poised to lose all of that. Last month, buddy got an email saying that, because of a new deal between the two companies, his Apple products would be removed from Amazon's store. He says he felt... PAUL BUDDE: ...Very frustrated, upset. Just - wow, you know? What am I going to do now, basically? JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: Dozens of independent Apple resellers lit up Amazon seller message boards. Dear Amazon, I would like to thank you for running me out of business with a single email, one person wrote. It's not clear how many hundreds of businesses are affected. We reached out to Amazon, and a spokesperson wouldn't say. JOHN BUMSTEAD: It's kind of something that Amazon sellers like me have always feared. JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: That's John Bumstead of Minneapolis. Bumstead says he sells about a third of his refurbished Apple computers on Amazon. And he's not sure how he's going to make up for it. Apple resellers say they're going to have to sell more of their stuff on eBay, Craigslist and other sites. JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: But those are small potatoes compared to Amazon, which reigns supreme in online shopping. In an NPR Marist Poll this year, 92 percent of online shoppers said they've bought something on Amazon. But now Apple has pushed small sellers off of Amazon's marketplace. It's a change that worries Bumstead, who says Apple could force other companies to drop independent sellers like him. JOHN BUMSTEAD: What if Apple forces this kind of agreement that it made with Amazon? What if it pushes this agreement onto the other marketplace players? What if the rest of it becomes off limits as well? That's the really scary thought in my mind. JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: From now on, companies that want to sell used Apple products through Amazon have to show they sell millions of dollars' worth each year. Apple says it wants to prevent counterfeit products from being sold on Amazon, which this will do. But Paul Budde says all his sales are authentic Apple and points to his near 100-percent feedback rating. So he's not sure what he's going to do when the new policy goes into effect next month. PAUL BUDDE: Me and my wife had a talk. What else could I do for my business, you know? We came up with different ideas and stuff, obviously. So I have plans of other things I could try. But this has been a good business for me, so I'd hate to see it go. JAMES DOUBEK, BYLINE: For now, he says he's just busy trying to keep up with the rush of sales before Christmas. He needs to clear out as many Apple laptops and phones as possible because, after January 4, he won't be able to do it on Amazon. James Doubek, NPR News. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: We should note that Amazon is one of NPR's financial sponsors. This is NPR News.

Many independent businesses use Amazon to sell goods. But thanks to a new deal between Amazon and Apple, some small businesses selling used Apple products are unable to sell through Amazon.

Viele unabhängige Unternehmen nutzen Amazon, um Waren zu verkaufen. Aber dank eines neuen Deals zwischen Amazon und Apple können einige kleine Unternehmen, die gebrauchte Apple-Produkte verkaufen, nicht über Amazon verkaufen.

许多独立企业使用亚马逊来销售商品。但由于亚马逊和苹果之间的一项新协议，一些销售二手苹果产品的小企业无法通过亚马逊销售商品。

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Thousands of Central American migrants are at Mexico's southern border with Guatemala. That's some 1,500 miles from Mexico's border with the United States. But President Trump says he'll end regional U.S. aid, send troops and cancel a pending trade agreement with Mexico if the migrants reach the United States. This isn't the first time Trump has used aid as a political lever targeting Central America. But how effective are those threats, and will they have unintended consequences? Joining us now is Andrew Natsios. He was a former administrator for the United States Agency for International Development, or USAID, under President George W. Bush. Welcome to the program. ANDREW NATSIOS: Good morning. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: So the U.S. says it's working with Central American countries and Mexico to help them address issues such as governance and rule of law, democracy and food security. It provides a lot of aid to these troubled countries. What happens if the United States cuts off that aid? ANDREW NATSIOS: It's interesting. They are programs to grow their economies so that people won't have a motivation to leave their countries. The principal reason people migrate, particularly in Central America, is for better jobs and a better life - for economic reasons. And the trigger that usually sets them off in terms of their journey to the United States, to the border is gang violence. And so if you can reduce gang violence and increase economic growth in these countries, then the motivation to leave their countries toward the United States will diminish. And to cancel those programs means they're putting the American people at risk. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: When you look at how U.S. aid has been deployed in the past, you know, often, presidents see it as a two-pronged strategy, right? You - on the one hand, you might use enforcement. You might use other sort of more direct methods of trying to influence other nations. But on the other hand, they also use aid. ANDREW NATSIOS: They use aid usually in a more positive way. In other words, if we have an ally of ours - it's unstable, or it's under attack by terrorist groups or by a neighboring power that's hostile to the United States - then we will try to strengthen them. There are instances historically in the last 70 years, in both Republican and Democratic administrations, where presidents have threatened to cut off aid. President Trump is not the first one to do that. ANDREW NATSIOS: Lyndon Johnson canceled food aid to India in the middle of a food emergency in the 1960s because they were neutral in the Cold War. And he was annoyed with them, so he canceled the shipments. But I don't recall President Bush or Clinton or President Obama - actually threatened to cut off aid if countries didn't do it because negative incentives don't tend to work that well. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: Full disclosure - you sit on the advisory board for an aid contractor in Central America. What do you say to critics who say U.S. aid has been ineffective, that, despite all this money, people are still fleeing to the United States? ANDREW NATSIOS: An aid program is not going to stop political forces that are dysfunctional or trying to destabilize countries in Central America. That's not the purpose of the program. That's for the Defense Department and the CIA and the White House to deal with - and the State Department. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: This president has been pretty open, though, about operating in a transactional manner. He recently said at the United Nations in New York, few give anything to us, and that is why we are taking a hard look at U.S. foreign assistance. He's made it clear that he doesn't really believe in aid as a tool of American interest. ANDREW NATSIOS: Well, actually, if he didn't, I think he'd just propose abolishing AID or the State Department's aid programs. Is he transactional? Yes, he is. And I think these threats don't look at the actual reality of what's going on. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST: That was Andrew Natsios. He is now executive professor at the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. Thank you so much. ANDREW NATSIOS: Thank you very much.

NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro speaks with Andrew Natsios, former USAID administrator, about President Trump's threat to cut aid because of a migrant caravan that reached Mexico.

Lulu Garcia-Navarro von NPR spricht mit Andrew Natsios, dem ehemaligen USAID-Administrator, über die Drohung von Präsident Trump, die Hilfe wegen einer Migrantenkarawane zu kürzen, die Mexiko erreicht hat.

NPR新闻的露露·加西亚-纳瓦罗与前美国国际开发署署长安德鲁·纳齐奥斯就特朗普总统因一个抵达墨西哥的移民大篷车而威胁要削减援助一事进行了交谈。

SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: This week, President Trump repositioned U.S. forces away from a part of northern Syria along the border with Turkey. That move paved the way for Turkish invasion of the region and left U.S.-supported Kurdish fighters there feeling betrayed. It was also the latest example of the president treating American partners around the globe dismissively in a very public way. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They didn't help us in the Second World War. They didn't help us with Normandy. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: That was President Trump speaking this week about the Kurds. And here he is talking in July about Afghanistan's efforts to win the war against the Taliban. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I could win that war in a week. I just don't want to kill 10 million people. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: In both cases, the president's words unnerved allies who are locked in long wars in which they depend on U.S. military help. NPR national security correspondent Greg Myre joins me in the studio. Greg, thanks for coming in. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Hey. Sure thing, Sacha. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Your reporting has been looking at a common thread between these two examples of President Trump disparaging U.S. partners. What is the shared connection? GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Well, in both these cases, with the Kurds and in Afghanistan, Trump wants to reduce or end the U.S. military involvement in these wars. And he's really put both of them at risk. The Kurds feel very vulnerable, and the Afghan government also feels very vulnerable. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Are there other cases of this, similar cases besides these two? GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Right. I mean, you can certainly look at Ukraine as well. This is a place that Russia invaded five years ago, and it's still there. Ukraine needs U.S. weapons. And the president suspended these weapons shipments temporarily in the summer. And that, of course, has become part of this much larger controversy engulfing the president. Trump also told Ukraine's new untested President Zelenskiy to get together with Russian President Vladimir Putin to solve your problem. So that's left the Ukrainian leader feeling very isolated as well. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: And all these decisions have come in the past couple of months. So what are the other factors in why President Trump is acting this way towards U.S. allies now? GREG MYRE, BYLINE: So we don't know exactly, but there's a number of factors to consider. His national security aides have turned over at a very high rate throughout his administration. And a number of those who expressed fairly strong opposition to moves like this are gone, perhaps most notably Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, who resigned over the prospect that the U.S. might withdraw its troops from Syria. So the president is now facing less opposition and fewer constraints from within his own administration. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Now, we should note that these are long-standing Trump goals to get U.S. troops out of the Middle East, to get NATO and other countries to pay more for their security. And, you know, here's the thing. A lot of these ideas are pretty popular, and even many Democrats will subscribe to them. I spoke with Stephen Walt, who teaches at Harvard University. And he said these recent episodes seem to sum up the president's approach to foreign policy. STEPHEN WALT: He occasionally has had good instincts, but he pursues these very objectives in the worst possible way, in ways that don't yield the objective he's after, alarm other countries, make us look like we're sort of running foreign policy by whim and by tweet. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: Greg, all these issues involve the U.S. military. But it's rare for military leaders to express their opinions publicly, at least when they're active military. Do you have a sense of how they feel about these moves? GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Yes, we do because a number of former officers are speaking out. And they're particularly upset about the U.S. stepping aside in Syria. One notable case is Joe Votel. He was the general leading Central Command, which is responsible for all the U.S. forces in the Middle East, including Syria, until his retirement in March. And this week, he called Trump's move an abandonment of our Kurdish partners. And he said it could undo five years of fighting against the Islamic State. And Votel and others feel that the operation in Syria against the Islamic State was a big success at a relatively low cost. And they're very concerned that the Islamic State could reemerge. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: How are U.S. allies in all these places responding? GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Well, I think there's a lot of disappointment and a sense of being vulnerable and unsure what comes next. I think with both the Kurds and the Afghan government, they feel decisions are sort of being made over their heads, and they're going to be left in the lurch. And again, with Ukraine's President Zelenskiy, he was elected to end the war with Russia. And he felt this great need to have strong American support as he pursues that. But he's already feeling compromised. And now, as he tries to deal with Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, someone who's always looking for weakness and vulnerability, the Ukrainian president is feeling in a pretty tough position. SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST: That's NPR's national security correspondent Greg Myre. Greg, thank you. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: My pleasure.

This week, President Trump's remarks about withdrawing troops from Northern Syria unnerved allies who are locked in long wars in which they depend on U.S. military help.

In dieser Woche hat Präsident Trump mit seinen Äußerungen zum Truppenabzug aus Nordsyrien Verbündete verunsichert, die in langen Kriegen stecken, in denen sie auf die militärische Hilfe der USA angewiesen sind.

本周，特朗普总统关于从叙利亚北部撤军的言论让那些陷入长期战争的盟友感到不安，他们在战争中依赖美国的军事援助。

SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Going to go to Houston now. One of the wettest tropical cyclones in U.S. history has caused intense flooding in and around the city. Tropical Storm Imelda has left at least four people dead and hundreds displaced from their homes. Some areas, the flooding compares with the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey just two years ago. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Brooke Lewis of the Houston Chronicle joins us. Thanks very much for being with us, Ms. Lewis. BROOKE LEWIS: Thanks for having me. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: What are you seeing in Houston right now? BROOKE LEWIS: So in Houston, it's definitely calmed down over the last few days. But we've definitely experienced some really heavy rainfall. In the actual city of Houston, we were a lot less harder hit than some of the other surrounding counties. So we just kind of lucked out on this one. But we still experienced a lot of rain in Houston, more than I think a lot of us were expecting. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: And I understand you were reporting in Huffman, Texas, where I gather things were more serious. BROOKE LEWIS: Yes. So in Huffman, I was out there yesterday with another photographer from the Chronicle. And, you know, we watched a lot of people getting rescued by boat from this neighborhood. The neighborhood is right next to a bayou. And some of the bayou water creeped into the neighborhood. And they experienced that during Harvey, as well. But it was a pretty dire situation because they rescued at least 50 to 60 people by boat yesterday. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: So this is an area that was hard hit by Harvey, and it's hard hit once again. BROOKE LEWIS: Yes. And, you know, the neighbors that I talked to were just devastated. This one woman, who didn't have her house flooded during Harvey but still watched her neighbors get flooded, she told me that she kind of - you know, it was personal to her because she helped them rebuild after Harvey. She helped them clean out their homes. And now she was preparing to do it all over again. BROOKE LEWIS: And one woman that I talked to had just moved into that neighborhood only six months ago. And I asked her if she was planning to stick around. And she just told me point-blank I don't know. I love my house, but I don't know if I can do this again. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: What are you hearing from the area around Beaumont, Texas, which I gather got 43 inches of rain in one place? BROOKE LEWIS: Yeah. So in Beaumont, Beaumont was a lot harder hit than the city of Houston. And by the end of Friday, I know that there were at least 235 people that were gathered at a Beaumont shelter. And the schools that were in Beaumont were also affected. I know they were reporting that an elementary school and a high school would be closed indefinitely because of the damage from Imelda. And then also one of the deaths related to Imelda came from Beaumont. It was a 47-year-old man that was found in a car in a canal. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Ms. Lewis, I have to ask you, are there people in Houston turning to each other and saying wait a minute; this is happening every couple of years, this is a way of life I don't like? BROOKE LEWIS: I mean, it's definitely a conversation that's happening. I am a Houstonian. I grew up here. And - so I'm used to the storms. But it seems like every couple years - or really every year - we have some kind of crazy flash flooding event. And I know that people are getting weary. But as Houstonians, I know that we stick together. And a lot of people love this city. So I think we're just going to continue to press on. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Like the snow in Chicago. BROOKE LEWIS: Yes (laughter). I guess this is our version of snow in Chicago. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: All right. Brooke Lewis is a reporter with the Houston Chronicle, thanks so much for making the time for us on this very busy weekend. We're grateful. Thank you. BROOKE LEWIS: No problem. Thank you so much.

NPR's Scott Simon talks to Houston Chronicle reporter Brooke Lewis about the toll the effects from Tropical Depression Imelda have taken on Texas.

Scott Simon von NPR spricht mit der Reporterin Brooke Lewis vom Houston Chronicle über die Auswirkungen des tropischen Wirbelsturms Imelda auf Texas.

全国公共广播电台的斯科特·西蒙与《休斯顿纪事报》记者布鲁克·刘易斯就过路费进行了交谈；热带低气压伊梅尔达对德克萨斯州的影响。

SCOTT SIMON, HOST: We still don't know the name of the whistleblower who filed the complaint about President Trump and his phone call with Ukraine's president. That's the way it's supposed to be. A system that was set up for the intelligence community is designed to protect whistleblowers, but it doesn't always work that way. Here's NPR national security correspondent Greg Myre. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: A veteran of the National Security Agency, Bill Binney decided to blow the whistle in 2001. He says he was fed up with what he was seeing. BILL BINNEY: Because of all the corruption involved in contracting and money management and all kinds of things of that nature. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Then came the al-Qaida attacks on September 11 of that year. He decided to stay a while longer at the NSA. But a month later... BILL BINNEY: When I found out they were starting to spy on the entire population of the United States, I decided I had to get out of there as fast as possible because I couldn't be a party to this kind of activity. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: He retired and took his complaints to the House Intelligence Committee and later the inspector general at the Defense Department. Binney, in turn, was investigated by the FBI, and his house was raided. His identity was leaked, and he's had trouble finding work. He was never charged with the crime. And the surveillance program he and other whistleblowers complained about turned out to be a costly failure. BILL BINNEY: They were blackballing us in the community and around the industry as the FBI and the Department of Justice and the NSA were blackballing us basically. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: High-profile whistleblower cases in the intelligence community are rare and don't often end well for the person filing the complaint. The whistleblower making accusations against President Trump has not been identified and is protected from retaliation, yet the president and many Republicans are already attacking the character and the motives of the whistleblower. The acting director of national intelligence, Joseph Maguire, was appointed by Trump just two months ago. Testifying before the House Intelligence Committee, he insisted he'll shield the whistleblower. JOSEPH MAGUIRE: Mr. Chairman, my job is to support and lead the entire intelligence community. That individual works for me. Therefore, it is my job to make sure that I support and defend that person. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: U.S. whistleblower laws date to the country's earliest days, but the system set up specifically for the intelligence community was established in 1998. Eleanor Hill was the inspector general of the Defense Department at that time and testified before Congress. She said there were two big concerns. ELEANOR HILL: Make sure whistleblowers feel comfortable coming forward when they have a legitimate reason to do so. And secondly, by doing that, minimize the chance that the whistleblower is going to instead leak that in an unauthorized way to the public. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Hill says an inspector general overseeing a National Security Agency has a special obligation because so much of that work takes place in secret. If they don't deal with a valid complaint, it may never be addressed. As inspector general at the NSA in the early 2000s, Joel Brenner says he was allowed to operate independently and tackle sensitive issues. But he says it's also important to look into the motives of the whistleblower. JOEL BRENNER: The number of hotline complaints that we used to get in my office always spiked right in the week after promotions were announced. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: They often came from those who felt slighted. JOEL BRENNER: They're all kinds of cranky people in every organization, and you've got to sort the wheat from the chaff. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: As a CIA analyst, Patrick Eddington became convinced that U.S. troops were exposed to chemical agents in the 1991 Gulf War. He believes it caused the widespread illness known as Gulf War syndrome. When he could not persuade his bosses at the spy agency, he and his wife, who also worked at the CIA, quit and went public. They paid a high price as he said in an interview with NPR's Morning Edition. PATRICK EDDINGTON: You know in our case, you know, we wound up having to sell our house. And it was an extremely traumatic experience. But if you're a person of conscience and you see something like this going on, at the end of the day, you either act, or you can't live with yourself. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: He offered a word of caution to the current whistleblower; your life will never be the same. GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Greg Myre, NPR News, Washington.

Whistleblowing in the intelligence community faces a special set of challenges designed to make sure complaints get heard while protecting classified information. It doesn't always work well.

Whistleblowing in den Nachrichtendiensten steht vor einer Reihe besonderer Herausforderungen, die sicherstellen sollen, dass Beschwerden gehört werden und gleichzeitig geheime Informationen geschützt werden. Das funktioniert nicht immer gut.

情报界的检举工作面临着一系列特殊的挑战，这些挑战旨在确保能够听到举报信息的同时也可保护机密信息。但并不总是很奏效。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: In Arizona, a border wall is now going up between the United States and Mexico, and conservationists are furious. President Trump's wall will skirt one of the most beloved areas in the Southwest, the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. It has been recognized by the United Nations as an international biosphere reserve. What's more - Native Americans who live along the border say the wall will disrupt their traditions. Here's NPR's John Burnett. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: On a recent drive along Arizona's southern border, I watched a crew transplanting saguaro cactus out of the zone with they're about to build the wall. This is from an Army Corps of Engineers video. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: There may be misconceptions that we are on a construction site and just not caring for the environment, just proceeding with work as planned. We are relocating saguaro, organ pipe, ocotillo... JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: But a half-mile away, I drove up on a big yellow bulldozer scraping the desert clean and mowing down cactus columns that are likely older than the young man operating the dozer. Customs and Border Protection later said they don't save unhealthy plants like these. This scene illustrates why environmentalists are deeply skeptical of the government's plans. They fear that Customs and Border Protection and the Department of Defense, as they race to meet the president's deadline of 450 miles of wall by the elections in 2020, will plow through one of the most biologically and culturally rich regions of the continental United States. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has warned that the wall could negatively impact 23 endangered and at-risk species, including the Sonoran pronghorn antelope, and the National Park Service says construction could destroy 22 archeological sites. Yet for this stretch of western desert, the government has waived 41 federal environmental laws to expedite construction. KEVIN DAHL: This is a wall to fulfill a campaign promise. It's really clear. And that's what makes many of us so angry that's being done so fast outside the rule of law. And we know that it'll have incredible impacts. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: Kevin Dahl is the Arizona representative for the National Parks Conservation Association, a nonprofit. We're sitting beside a serene spring-fed pond fringed by cat tails and dive-bombed by dragonflies. It's called Quitobaquito Springs inside the organ pipe cactus refuge. A biologist peers into a rivulet that feeds this oasis in the middle of the Sonoran Desert. JEFF SORENSEN: These guys are very tiny, maybe half the size of a sesame seed. Those are the Quitobaquito tryonia. And there are literally thousands in here. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: Jeff Sorensen is with Arizona Game & Fish. He's an expert on this tiny snail. It's one of three species, along with a mud turtle and a pupfish, whose entire universe is this wetland. But the pond is a stone's throw from the international border and the path of the wall. Conservationists fear that workers will drill water wells to make concrete and lower the water table, which has been dropping for years. JEFF SORENSEN: We do have concerns. Our species that are at this site rely on water, just like everything else here in this desert Southwest. And to take that water away from them means less of a home. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: The Trump administration is building 63 miles of wall on the Arizona border to replace rundown pedestrian fences and vehicle barriers. CBP says this stretch of desert is a busy drug and human trafficking corridor. It's erecting new 18 to 30-foot-tall concrete-filled steel bollards, along with security lights and an all-weather patrol road. It'll cost more than $10 million a mile. In responses to questions from NPR, the agency says contractors will not drill for water within five miles of Quitobaquito Springs. The agency says it is in regular contact with federal environmental officials, and it is doing its utmost to reduce impacts to the natural world. Critics are not appeased. LAIKEN JORDAHL: There is a whole new level of recklessness that we are seeing under Trump. I mean, we thought Bush was bad, but this is a whole nother order of magnitude. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: Laiken Jordahl is an anti-war activist with the Center for Biological Diversity. There was an outcry, too, back in the late 2000s when President George W. Bush built the first generation of bollard wall. Those barriers topped out at 18 feet. The massive structure rising southwest of Tucson is nearly twice as tall. It looks like it could hold back a herd of T. Rex's. JOHN LADD: I support Donald Trump 100%. If you're going to build a wall, build it. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: John Ladd's family has bred cattle in Arizona since it was a territory. Their ranch backs up to the Mexican border. The surrounding mountains purple at dusk, as a bull scratches his haunches on a yucca. Time was when the Ladd ranch was overrun by unauthorized crossers. They stole things and cut fences. Then in 2016, at the end of the Obama years, CBP built a fence continuing what Bush started. John Ladd reserves judgment on a wall through a federally protected wilderness. But for his ranch, walls worked. JOHN LADD: When this 18-foot wall went in, it was obvious that immigrants quit coming through here. It was an immediate improvement with the security of our border as well as our houses. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: Other border neighbors feel differently. The vast Tohono O'odham Nation shares 62 miles with Mexico. They vehemently oppose the border wall. Several thousand tribal members live south of the border, and they can pass back and forth without passports. Already, the barriers are encroaching on tribal lands from both sides. While there is currently no funding to wall off the reservation from Mexico, tribal members fear that CBP could change its mind. Tribal chairman Ned Norris Jr. NED NORRIS JR: We have lived in this area forever, and so a full blown out 30-foot wall would make it that much more difficult for our tribal citizens in Mexico and in the U.S. to be able to actively participate with family gatherings, with ceremonial gatherings. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: Traditions are important to the Antone family. I met them recently walking westward along the state highway that runs through the reservation. They were on a pilgrimage for St. Francis. Eighteen-year-old Genae Antone (ph) talked about another rite of passage that's vital to young Tohono O'odham men. They travel on foot, the round trip of 300 miles, from the reservation across the border to the salt flats at Mexico's Sea of Cortez. GENAE ANTONE: The salt run for the men, that's really important for us as Tohono O’odham, you know, for the men to go run and run all the way to the water to get salt. Some people go and get seashells. So I don't really necessarily think it's a good idea. JOHN BURNETT, BYLINE: The Antone family, carrying a feathered walking stick, a statue of the Virgin and an American flag, then continue on their pilgrimage. John Burnett, NPR News, Tucson.

President Trump's border wall is going up between Arizona and Mexico, and it's generating controversy because of its proximity to the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument and Native Americans lands.

Die von Präsident Trump geplante Grenzmauer zwischen Arizona und Mexiko ist wegen ihrer Nähe zum Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument und zum Land der amerikanischen Ureinwohner umstritten.

特朗普总统的边境墙将在亚利桑那州和墨西哥之间修建，由于靠近管风琴仙人掌国家纪念碑和印第安人土地，而引发了争议。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: "Sesame Street" is taking on some very grown-up problems. This is Elmo asking about a friend's mom. KEVIN CLASH: (As Elmo) Daddy, how come Karli's mommy had to go away? DAVID GREENE, HOST: Elmo first met Karli back in May. Karli is 6 1/2 years old with bright green fur. She lives in something that grown-ups call foster care. KEVIN CLASH: (As Elmo) Why is Karli so sad? KEVIN CLASH: UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As Clem) She's having a hard time, Elmo. But we're here for her. We're her for-now parents. KEVIN CLASH: (As Elmo) What does for-now parents mean? KEVIN CLASH: UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As Dalia) Well, Elmo, Karli's mommy's been having a hard time, so we're her foster parents or her for-now parents. We will keep her safe until her mommy can take care of her again. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: This week, Elmo learned why Karli's mom went away, and he learned a new word - addiction. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As Louie) Addiction makes people feel like they need a grown-up drink called alcohol or another kind of drug to feel OK. That can make a person act strange, in ways they can't control. SHERRY WESTON: The opioid crisis today, people don't stop and think, what does that mean to the young children? RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: That second voice there, that's Sherry Weston of Sesame Workshop. Karli's story is appearing on the website Sesame Street in Communities. SHERRY WESTON: With everything we do - we do research, we start with advisories and we began hearing from our partners who work directly with vulnerable children and family about certain prevalent issues that were having a negative impact on young children. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: "Sesame Street" has not shied away from tough issues. It's dealt with homelessness, autism and incarceration. Weston says the timing was right to talk to kids about addiction. SHERRY WESTON: To see that Karli has a similar experience can be very powerful and very comforting and help them feel less alone. KEVIN CLASH: (As Elmo) Will Karli's mommy get better? KEVIN CLASH: UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As Louie) Well, she's working hard on it. She's taking good care of her body and mind so she can stay healthy and make good choices. KEVIN CLASH: (As Elmo) Oh, good. Elmo's really happy for her. KEVIN CLASH: UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #3: (As Louie) Oh, me, too, son. DAVID GREENE, HOST: Sherry Weston says the story of Karli and her mom is going to keep developing and growing. SHERRY WESTON: Well, Karli is still in foster care, and her mother is in treatment, but she's also in recovery. So we're always creating storylines where there is optimism and hope and there are sunny days ahead. DAVID GREENE, HOST: And you can follow Karli's story and her mom's story if you go to the website sesamestreetincommunities.org.

Sesame Street has revealed the reason why one puppet character went into foster care. The children's program is taking on one of the most difficult social issues of our time: addiction.

Die Sesamstraße hat den Grund enthüllt, warum eine Puppenfigur in eine Pflegefamilie ging. Das Kinderprogramm greift eines der schwierigsten gesellschaftlichen Themen unserer Zeit auf: Sucht.

《芝麻街》解释了一个木偶角色被寄养的缘由。儿童项目正在面临我们这个时代最困难的社会问题之一：成瘾。

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: A story about hope, risk and unmet expectations - the story begins in the summer of 2003 in Kabul, Afghanistan. It has been almost two years since 9/11, two years since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan and pushed the Taliban out of power for harboring al-Qaida. I'm there reporting on how the country is starting to change. Girls can now go to school. Playing music isn't against the law. And children are starting to dream big dreams. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: What do you want to do when you grow up? SHAGOOFA SAHAR: President or (laughter) Kofi Annan. QAIS DUNAISHJO: No, no. ILYAS HURMAT: I like. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: You are going to be Kofi Annan? RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: The three ambitious kids you hear there are Shagoofa Sahar (ph), Qais Dunaishjo (ph) and Ilyas Hurmat (ph). When I meet them back in 2003, they're between the ages of 8 and 11. And they're the hosts of a kid's radio program called "Good Morning Afghanistan." SHAGOOFA SAHAR: (Foreign language spoken). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I spent several weeks with these kids and their team that summer. I watched them put the show together, play jokes on each other. I watched them play volleyball and jump rope in the courtyard outside their studios. And I listened as they talked to me about the future they saw for their country. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: What do you hope for Afghanistan in the future? RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: UNIDENTIFIED CHILD #1: (Foreign language spoken). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: UNIDENTIFIED CHILD #2: She wants that the people - our country should rebuild and reconstruct. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I'd go back to Afghanistan many times after that, but I never saw Shagoofa, Qais or Ilyas again. And I wondered for a long time what had happened to each of them. With all that hope and optimism of those early years after the Taliban, what kind of life had they had? After some digging through social media, I finally tracked down Shagoofa and Qais. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shagoofa? SHAGOOFA SAHAR: Hi, Rachel. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Hi. How's it going? SHAGOOFA SAHAR: I hear your voice after very long time. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Qais, are you there? QAIS DUNAISHJO: Hi. Good morning, Rachel. Thank you for finding me again (laughter). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: (Laughter). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: What else do you remember about that time? SHAGOOFA SAHAR: Well, we were very much hopeful for a bright future about our country. QAIS DUNAISHJO: I was confident with myself. Go to your school. Just whatever you want to do, do it. It's the time. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I remember that about Qais, actually. He was quiet as a boy but so self-assured for his age - always had this big devilish grin. At that point, he'd already been through so much. Years prior, he and his father were imprisoned by the Taliban for three months. Now that the Taliban was gone, he felt like life could only get better. QAIS DUNAISHJO: It was a really good time on those days. I was really energetic, and I was looking forward for a bright and a good Afghanistan. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: But over the years, the optimism would fade. The Taliban would keep launching attacks against civilians. Other insurgent groups moved in, including ISIS. Shagoofa and Qais each found an escape hatch. Qais was granted asylum in the U.S. He remembers the night before he and his wife and baby boy boarded a plane bound for California. QAIS DUNAISHJO: It was kind of - for me, when you are going to somewhere to watch a scary movie and you're a little bit excited about that. When we landed here at Los Angeles, I see everything. People smile to each other. Nobody's worried about security issues here. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shagoofa's escape came in the form of education. She convinced her family to let her go to college in Istanbul. Shagoofa thrived there. She made friends. She did well in her classes. And when she graduated, she didn't want to go back home to Kabul. SHAGOOFA SAHAR: I knew that I have bigger ambitions than that. So in order to stay here longer to do my masters, I had to convince them again. And then - yeah, I actually did some crazy thing (laughter). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shagoofa's brother wanted her to come home immediately and get married. She refused. And to drive the point home, she shaved her head - shaved off all of her long, dark hair, leaving her pretty much bald. She showed me photos of her from that time on Facebook. She's got makeup on, big earrings, super hip clothes. She had found another version of herself, and she wasn't about to let that go. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Now Shagoofa and Qais are living in this kind of tension. They are away from the bombs. They're living in other countries where they can see opportunity in a way they never could before. At the same time, they feel this pull to help drag Afghanistan out of the current chaos. Peace talks have been stalled. And even if the Taliban and the Afghan government can reach a ceasefire, both these young Afghans are worried about what happens if they come back into power. SHAGOOFA SAHAR: The problem is that women are not much involved with the peace negotiations. And we are scared to turn back to, like, 18 years ago. And we are scared that we will lose all these advantages that we have today. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Are you nervous about the United States leaving? QAIS DUNAISHJO: Yes. Yes, I am totally nervous. I'm feeling a bad dream about Afghanistan. If they leave us like this - if they leave us at this situation, I think everything is go backward. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Each of them have built their own life outside Afghanistan. Shagoofa now works at the Afghan Embassy in Ankara. She's also raising her two younger sisters, who followed her to Turkey. Qais works as a safety inspector for a construction firm in California, where he lives with his wife and son. I ask if they can imagine ever going back to Kabul, what it would take for them to return and build a life there. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Would you like to raise your son there? QAIS DUNAISHJO: Actually, no. If it's - the situation is like this, no. If the situation is like this, I don't want same thing that happened to me, I don't want to happen to my son. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shagoofa, on the other hand, still thinks about the dream that seemed so out of reach when she was 9 years old. SHAGOOFA SAHAR: Yeah, I said I want to be president or Kofi Annan... RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yeah. SHAGOOFA SAHAR: ...Because Kofi Annan was the (laughter) head of U.N. back then, yeah. SHAGOOFA SAHAR: Kofi Annan. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Two Kofi Annans? SHAGOOFA SAHAR: Yeah. SHAGOOFA SAHAR: So yeah, I still have this ambition in mind - one day (laughter). RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: The U.S. invaded Afghanistan 18 years ago this week. For 18 years, Afghans like Qais and Shagoofa have clung to an idea of what their country could be. But now they are trapped in a grim deja vu. Peace talks with the Taliban are stalled yet again. There is again no clear winner in the recent presidential election. On election day, the Taliban carried out almost 200 attacks across the country. The Afghanistan Shagoofa and Qais have dreamt up since they were kids still feels very far away.

NPR's Rachel Martin reconnects with a couple of young Afghans that she first met nearly two decades ago when they were children hosting a youth radio program in Kabul called Good Morning Afghanistan.

Rachel Martin von NPR stellt den Kontakt zu zwei jungen Afghanen wieder her, die sie vor fast zwei Jahrzehnten kennenlernte, als sie noch Kinder waren und in Kabul ein Jugendradioprogramm namens Good Morning Afghanistan moderierten.

美国国家公共广播电台记者雷切尔·马丁与两个年轻的阿富汗人重新取得联系，20年前她第一次见到这两个人，当时他们还是孩子，在喀布尔主持一个名为“早安阿富汗”的青年电台节目。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: Sticking with the good news, here's another niche doing well - consignment stores where you can buy secondhand designer clothes. Shia Levitt reports. SHIA LEVITT: At Ina Consignment Store in Manhattan, shoppers are picking through the racks of secondhand jackets and skirts from brands like Fendi, Prada and Gucci. Today, shopper Antonia Kujoharava(ph) is trying to sell back two pairs of designer high-heeled shoes. The woman behind the counter offers her $125 for one pair and then examines the second. SHIA LEVITT: Unidentified Woman #1: Seventy on these? Ms. ANTONIA KUJOHARAVA (Consigner): OK. SHIA LEVITT: The shoes are given a price tag and added to the store shelves. If both pairs sell, Kujoharava gets almost $200. Ms. ANTONIA KUJOHARAVA (Consigner): You could bring your things to a consignment shop instead of gathering dust in your closet, and you could get some money to buy something that you actually want to use and want to wear. SHIA LEVITT: Store owner Milo(ph) Bernstein has a small chain of high-end consignment stores, including this one. In the fall, he says, so many people wanted to sell back clothes that appointments were often booked up a week or two in advance. Mr. MILO BERNSTEIN (Consignment Store Owner): We had several men who had never consigned before who consigned, you know, their entire collection or their entire wardrobe of really expensive suits. One man consigned a lot of Tom Brown suits because he said he no longer had the job that he was wearing them at, and that he needed to make some money. SHIA LEVITT: It seems logical that more people would try to cycle their wardrobes back into cash during a recession. But are there enough customers around to buy the stuff? Bernstein says he noticed an upswing in business both ways. Mr. MILO BERNSTEIN (Consignment Store Owner): Right after the stock market went down, it wasn't sort of an instant influx of customers or consigners, but probably over the period of a month or so, we certainly started getting a lot more clothing in than we had before, and also a lot more customers. Mr. MILO BERNSTEIN (Consignment Store Owner): Unidentified Woman #2: How would you like to pay? Mr. MILO BERNSTEIN (Consignment Store Owner): Unidentified Woman #3: Cash. Mr. MILO BERNSTEIN (Consignment Store Owner): Unidentified Woman #2: OK. SHIA LEVITT: Bernstein says 2008 was the best year yet for each of his stores. In fact, nearly three-fourths of the members surveyed by the National Association of Retail and Thrift Shops said sales were up in the last quarter of 2008 compared to the year before. And they're not the only ones who seem encouraged by sales recently. A number of Web sites help people sell directly to one another, person to person, bypassing traditional stores altogether. Business on both Craigslist and eBay has gone up. Even the elite, invitation-only networking site, A Small World, has seen an uptick in the number of luxury items listed on its marketplace. People are also selling handmade items at crafts fairs and online. Ms. CAROL WANAMAKER (Resident, New York): I just love working with the old salvage book pages, vintage books and so forth. These are… SHIA LEVITT: Standing in her living room in Buffalo, New York, Carol Wanamaker(ph) is preparing to sell her handmade magnets and other items at a local crafts fair. She unwraps a small piece of felt and Irish lace to show off a pendant necklace she made from glass tile and a green, vintage postage stamp. Ms. CAROL WANAMAKER (Resident, New York): Look at that, isn't that cute for St. Patrick's Day? These were my St. Patrick's Day Irish stamps that I'm putting under glass… SHIA LEVITT: Wanamaker began selling her items in late 2007. When the economy crashed this past fall and many retail businesses were sinking, her sales numbers went the opposite direction. Ms. CAROL WANAMAKER (Resident, New York): This fall, it sort of exploded. Starting in October, things really picked up. SHIA LEVITT: If her business continues to grow this fast, Wanamaker says she could surpass the salary she earned as an adjunct teacher. Wanamaker is among thousands of artists selling items on Etsy, a Web site for buying and selling handmade goods. Etsy's Adam Brown says the Web site had 12 record-setting days in November, and posted great numbers around the first few days of the economic collapse. And membership more than doubled, to 2 million users, in the past nine months. Mr. ADAM BROWN (Founder, Etsy): You're buying directly from the artists and you're not having to pay any middlemen, and you're also not paying as much for markup as, say - if you buy something in a store, you're paying for the overhead and the electricity and the cost of running a shop. But the costs of running an Etsy shop are almost negligible. SHIA LEVITT: Bernstein's consignment shop and Wanamaker's craft sales don't seem as hurt by the financial downturn so far. The question is how long businesses like theirs will be able to stay afloat and whether they, too, will start to feel the squeeze other retailers are feeling before the recession is over. For NPR News, I'm Shia Levitt in New York.

Some businesses are defying the economic downturn. On the Web, Etsy, eBay and Craigslist are seeing solid sales numbers. And old-fashioned thrift stores, consignment shops and flea markets are also doing well.

Einige Unternehmen trotzen dem wirtschaftlichen Abschwung. Im Internet verzeichnen Etsy, eBay und Craigslist solide Umsatzzahlen. Und auch die altmodischen Secondhand-Läden, Konsignationsläden und Flohmärkte sind gut im Geschäft.

一些企业正在对抗经济衰退。在互联网上， Etsy 、 eBay 和 Craigslist 的销售数字都很稳定。老式的旧货店、寄售店和跳蚤市场也做得不错。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: We're going to start the program by looking back on an explosive week in Washington. And if you haven't been able to follow every twist and turn in the impeachment inquiry against President Trump, we'll try to catch you up. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: On Thursday, former Ukrainian Envoy Kurt Volker took questions from House lawmakers for nearly 10 hours. During that testimony, he handed over dozens of text messages between U.S. diplomats. A partial transcript of those texts was later released by House Democrats - the text to pick a plan to tie U.S. aid to Ukraine and to suggest that President Trump would not meet with Ukraine's president unless there was an investigation by Ukraine into Trump's political opponent. Then, in a moment that many people found shocking, on the White House lawn, President Trump said, quote, "China should start an investigation into the Bidens," unquote. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Here to discuss all this is Michael McFaul. He served as U.S. ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration from 2012 to 2014. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us once again. MICHAEL MCFAUL: Sure. Thanks for having me. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So let's start with these text messages between diplomats. And we need to be clear again that only a partial transcript has been released. But what struck you about them? MICHAEL MCFAUL: Well, I was completely shocked, to be honest. I think they are explosive in that they underscore that this was not just a phone call between President Trump and President Zelenskiy of Ukraine. It was a plan that they worked out over several months with various iterations and talks with Ukrainians to do exactly what you just said - a quid pro quo. You get to meet with President Trump in the Oval Office, and you get to get your military assistance back as long as you do two things - investigate my political opponent's son, Hunter Biden, and two, which is even crazier - to relitigate who intervened in 2016 during that presidential election. MICHAEL MCFAUL: The president has a theory that it was the Ukrainians. And what is especially striking is how many people were involved in trying to put together this quid pro quo. That's what we get from these text messages. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Now, we've heard from a handful of Republican members of Congress over the last couple of days who are insisting a couple of things. One, some are insisting there's nothing wrong with this. Some are suggesting they didn't see evidence of a quid pro quo. But others are saying, in essence, this is just how it works. So I'm going to ask you about that latter there. From your experience, is this true? I mean, do - is this the kind of conversation that diplomats sometimes have working behind the scenes? MICHAEL MCFAUL: Well, so in addition to working in Moscow for two years, I also worked at the White House at the National Security Council and was part of many phone calls that President Obama made with his Russian counterparts and other leaders around the world. And to make things happen, we did do quid pro quos. But they were always in the American national interest. I just want to keep stressing that. So yes, did we offer a visit with President Obama to a Ukrainian official? We actually did that in 2010, but it was to secure nuclear materials. MICHAEL MCFAUL: What is absolutely extraordinary and wrong in my view is that they were using the office of the president and military assistance - otherwise known as American taxpayer money, by the way - to try to get something for President Trump's personal electoral prospects in the upcoming presidential election. And that's just wrong. And I've never heard anything even remotely close to that during my time in government. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Some of the president's defenders are suggesting that the president was pressing Ukraine to deal with a corruption problem that everybody agrees is a problem. Did you hear that? MICHAEL MCFAUL: No, I didn't. First of all, we've had the president and candidate Trump on the record for years now. He has had more press time than anybody, I think, in history as a president and as a candidate. Not once did he ever say fighting corruption, broadly speaking, is something he is concerned about, let alone in Ukraine. And when you single out one individual who just happens to be the son of your electoral opponent, that's not a fight for corruption. That's using the law for your own political ends. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: What - then I do want to go into what the president said on the White House lawn. He seems to be insisting that there's actually nothing wrong with asking a foreign government to look into a political rival. So I'm going to ask you, what do you think are the implications of the president saying something like this? MICHAEL MCFAUL: It's wrong. It's outrageously wrong. Go back to our founding fathers, where they warned about foreign interference in our domestic affairs. He is asking the president of Ukraine to help him win re-election in 2020. That other - I mean, I understand maybe he has to double down and defend that because he did it. And by the way, he had lots of people conspiring with him to do it. He dragged them all in. MICHAEL MCFAUL: But how anybody else could look at that and say, well, there's nothing wrong with that - I just really don't understand that logic. Whether it's impeachable or not, I'll let others decide that. Is it wrong? Absolutely. It's wrong and should never happen again. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Let me ask you about the role that Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, the president's personal attorney, played in all of this. This was completely outside of normal diplomatic channels. I think everybody would know that. And you said that his involvement in this muddied the waters and creates dangerous confusion. Could you talk a little bit more about that? MICHAEL MCFAUL: Well, first, it's very clear from the texts that have been released that Mr. Giuliani was pushing hard to try to get the Ukrainians to open the investigation. And they pushed so hard, by the way, that it wasn't enough just to have them open an investigation of Vice President Biden's son. They wanted the Ukrainians to put it on the record. MICHAEL MCFAUL: And you see in those texts that Mr. Giuliani is interacting with Ambassador Volker. He's interacting with Ambassador Sondland to try to make this happen. And I - again, I served five years in government. I can never remember a private citizen getting so involved in something related to national foreign policy generally. But here, it's something that obviously he's not pursuing America's national interests. MICHAEL MCFAUL: And the second thing that I find tragic just because I know some of these players - I know Mr. Volker, I know Ambassador Taylor, who's also in these talks - what Giuliani did and what Trump did was drag our diplomats into work that you can tell they're not comfortable with, if you read those text closely. Mr. Volker chose to play along, and I think he needs to be held accountable for that. MICHAEL MCFAUL: But there is a hero in this - Ambassador Taylor, who was put out in Ukraine after the Trump administration fired the previous ambassador. It's clear from these texts that he knows this is wrong. And he says, if it goes any further, I'm going to quit. And I think that's a good testimony to that there are some civil servants in the Foreign Service that put national interests over the personal interests of the president. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That's Michael McFaul. He was U.S. ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration. He's also - as he also mentioned, he worked in national security at the White House. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Ambassador, thank you so much for talking to us. MICHAEL MCFAUL: Sure. Thanks for having me.

NPR's Michel Martin speaks with Michael McFaul, former U.S. ambassador to Russia, about the text messages between American and Ukrainian officials that were released earlier this week.

Michel Martin von NPR spricht mit Michael McFaul, dem ehemaligen US-Botschafter in Russland, über die Textnachrichten zwischen amerikanischen und ukrainischen Beamten, die Anfang dieser Woche veröffentlicht wurden.

NPR新闻的米歇尔·马丁与前美国驻俄罗斯大使迈克尔·麦克福尔谈论了本周早些时候公布的美国和乌克兰官员之间的短信。

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Former Vice President Joe Biden is in Las Vegas today for a town hall. It's the first full-scale campaign event he's held since Democrats move forward with an impeachment inquiry into President Trump. And of course, Biden is a key figure in that story. He's a potential rival to the president in the 2020 election and, apparently, enough of a threat to Trump that the president repeatedly asked Ukraine's leader to investigate Biden and his son. NPR political correspondent Scott Detrow is with Biden in Nevada, and he's on the line now. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Hi, Scott. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Hey. Good afternoon. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: How is Biden responding to all of this? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Notably, he's been pretty restrained and on message. He hasn't held many events this week. It's mostly been fundraising. He had that brief, four-minute statement early in the week responding to all this, and he was on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" on ABC earlier this week. Biden has mostly been criticizing Trump for an abuse of presidential power. And when it comes to defending himself, he's sticking to very short, direct statements, like what he said here on the show. JOE BIDEN: This is not about me and my family. There's not one single, solitary, legitimate journalist in the world who's given any credibility to this. They've debunked all of what he's had to say for the past - since Giuliani started this a while ago. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: And that is true. All reporting on this shows that Biden's pressure to Ukraine to fire the prosecutor was in line with U.S. foreign policy, with what many European Union countries wanted to see. And there is no evidence there was any investigation into the Ukrainian gas company his son, Hunter, was on board - was on the board of. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So the facts here are pretty clear. There's no evidence that Biden did anything improper. And yet, President Trump still keeps associating Biden with possible corruption. Is there any sense of whether that could hurt or maybe even help Biden? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: And to that end, the Trump campaign just announced an $8 million ad buy with this message, which again, like we said, is just not backed by the facts. I talked to a lot of Democrats about this this week, and there's some split thinking. Some worry that a drumbeat of attacks could be a drag and that the broader conversations about Hunter Biden taking positions like that when his father was the vice president could remind some Democrats about all of the influence stories that hurt Hillary Clinton in 2016. Biden did acknowledge early in this campaign that he knows that Republicans and political opponents would attack him for Hunter Biden. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: But more Democrats are also saying that this could maybe help Biden. It shows that Trump thinks he's the biggest threat. And we know that voters, Democratic voters, are so focused on electability that that idea, that Trump's most worried about Biden, could really actually help him. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: How is the rest of the Democratic field responding? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Very, very warily. They're obviously mostly focusing on President Trump. They're supporting the House Democratic impeachment inquiry. No one is taking the allegation about firing the prosecutor seriously. But when it comes to the broader influence questions, there are hesitant, careful responses, and that's best summed up by Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren in New Hampshire this week. She was asked by a reporter if she would allow a family member of her vice president to serve on a foreign board like Hunter Biden did. Here's what she said. ELIZABETH WARREN: No. I don't... UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why not? ELIZABETH WARREN: I don't - I don't know. I mean, I'd have to go back and look at the details on the plan. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think there could be a problem? ELIZABETH WARREN: I have to go back and look. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: And that's really indicative of a way a lot of the other Democratic candidates have been answering these questions this week - pretty carefully, not wanting to take any direct attacks. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So one of the big revelations this week is suddenly the primary campaign is not the most important political story (laughter) in America. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: I'm trying not to take it personally. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Well, I mean, how is that likely to affect the race as a whole? SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: You know, there's broad agreement on this point. This essentially freezes the race in place right now. The focus is on D.C., not Iowa and New Hampshire. I think that could actually hurt Warren in the short term. There were a lot of polls that came out this week showing her ahead of Biden nationally and in key states. Normally, that would come with a ton of coverage about her maybe being the front-runner now. She just hasn't gotten that press attention because of everything else that's happening. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: That is NPR's Scott Detrow with former Vice President Biden in Las Vegas. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Thank you. SCOTT DETROW, BYLINE: Sure thing.

At the center of the impeachment inquiry against President Trump is the revelation that he asked Ukraine's leader to investigate Biden and his family for an unsubstantiated claim. Biden's response so far has been mostly restrained.

Im Mittelpunkt des Amtsenthebungsverfahrens gegen Präsident Trump steht die Enthüllung, dass er den ukrainischen Anführer gebeten hat, gegen Biden und seine Familie wegen einer unbegründeten Behauptung zu ermitteln. Bidens Reaktion war bisher eher verhalten.

对特朗普总统的弹劾调查的核心是资料显示他要求乌克兰领导人凭未经证实的指控调查拜登及其家人。到目前为止，拜登的回应大多是克制的。

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Thirty years ago, Wally Conron inadvertently sparked a revolution in the canine world. In an effort to breed a hypoallergenic guide dog, he crossed a poodle with a Labrador. And voila; the labradoodle was born. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Last week, Conron set off a second explosion. In an episode of "Sum Of All Parts" from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, he expressed some regrets about his creation. WALLY CONRON: I opened a Pandora Box and released a Frankenstein monster. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: That story went viral, and it did not sit well with many labradoodle enthusiasts. MICHELLE PUGLIESE: To be honest, I was pretty offended by his comments. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: That's Michelle Pugliese, who runs the Doodle Dogs Of Philadelphia meetup group. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Doodle Dogs, because there's much more than just the labradoodle now. MICHELLE PUGLIESE: It's like anything mixed with a poodle. You've got your goldendoodles, your labradoodles, your shepadoodles, your bernedoodles, your cockapoos. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: And that proliferation of doodles is part of why Wally Conron regrets it. He told the "Sum Of All Parts" podcast that after labradoodles became popular, unscrupulous breeders, quote, "jumped on the bandwagon." And now... WALLY CONRON: I find that the biggest majority are either crazy or have an hereditary problem. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: Michelle Pugliese disagrees. MICHELLE PUGLIESE: I think crazy is a very is strong word to use. Are they playful? Yes. Can they be a bit hyper? Yes. But this is all easily corrected through obedience classes. They're just like little Muppets. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So which is it - monster or Muppet? JOHN HOWE: It's probably a little bit of both. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: That's John Howe, president of the American Veterinary Medical Association. AUDIE CORNISH, HOST: He's seen some problems with labradoodles in his practice, but he says a lot depends on how the dog is bred. So if you're looking for a labradoodle, do your homework. And whatever dog you buy or adopt, get to know it first. JOHN HOWE: Don't just look at the cute dog and say, oh, wow, isn't this gorgeous? You know, just - this dog is great. You know, spend more time. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Thinking that time might just make the difference between doodle bliss and doodle despair.

The man who created the labradoodle crossbreed told a podcast that he feels he "released a Frankenstein monster." Labradoodle enthusiasts are not pleased.

Der Mann, der die Labradoodle-Kreuzung erfunden hat, sagte in einem Podcast, dass er das Gefühl habe, \"ein Frankenstein-Monster freigelassen zu haben.\" Labradoodle-Fans sind nicht erfreut.

创造拉布拉多犬杂交品种的人在播客中表示，他觉得自己“释放了一个弗兰肯斯坦怪物”；拉布拉多贵宾犬爱好者并不满意。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: So we expect prices of goods and services to go up over time, right? But why has the cost of health care and education risen far faster than things like TVs, cars and everyday consumer items? Well, you can trust economists to come up with a theory. They call it the Baumol effect. Cardiff Garcia and Danielle Kurtzleben from our daily economics podcast The Indicator From Planet Money explain how this works. CARDIFF GARCIA: Alex Tabarrok, an economist at George Mason University, is the co-author of a new book called "Why Are The Prices So Damn High?" And the answer, he says, starts with an economist named William Baumol. ALEX TABARROK: He says think about a string quartet in 1826. It takes four people 40 minutes to play this string quartet. Now, let's think about the same string quartet in 2019 - live performance, same four people. It still takes them 40 minutes to produce the music. DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: But the price you pay to see that live string quartet has gone up way more than the price of everything else in the economy. The reason why is the Baumol effect. CARDIFF GARCIA: Some sectors of the economy get better at making stuff every year. In other words, productivity grows really fast in these sectors. DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: For example, let's say an electronics company can make more flat-screen televisions this year with the same number of workers as last year, and those workers work the same number of hours. More is produced for each hour of work; maybe because there's better equipment for the workers to use or new technology that makes producing flat-screen TVs more efficient. CARDIFF GARCIA: When a sector of the economy has fast productivity growth, that means it can afford to raise the wages it pays to its workers without raising the prices of the goods they make. There are also some sectors that have very slow productivity growth. They do not become more efficient at producing their goods or services from year to year. Kind of like the musicians in a string quartet, these workers do not produce much more of the same product. DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: The health care and education sectors fall into this category. Doctors, nurses, teachers, college professors - their productivity just doesn't go up much every year. CARDIFF GARCIA: The reason they don't get more efficient over time is largely because a big part of what their customers want from them is their time, their presence. DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: The health care and education sectors still have to pay wages that can compete with other sectors of the economy that do have fast productivity growth because, otherwise, not enough people would become doctors, nurses, teachers, professors or play in string quartets. CARDIFF GARCIA: The way that the health care and education sectors pay those higher salaries is by raising the prices of what they sell. DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: Since the workers in these sectors are not making more stuff to sell each year, the businesses that hire them - the schools, the colleges, the hospitals - they have to raise their prices so they can afford to pay those rising salaries. CARDIFF GARCIA: Yeah. And when Alex analyzed what was happening in the health care and education sectors, he found that not only had salaries for education and health care workers climbed year after year for decades, but also we have more of them than we used to. ALEX TABARROK: Because teachers are fairly well-educated and skilled, we have to pay them at least as much as they could earn elsewhere. CARDIFF GARCIA: The costs of health care and education would still rise faster than the costs in other parts the economy simply because productivity growth in health care and education is slower. That is the mechanical relationship explained by the Baumol effect. Cardiff Garcia. DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN: Danielle Kurtzleben, NPR News.

For decades, the costs of education and health care have climbed far faster than other goods. The Baumol Effect is an oft-overlooked and underappreciated economic theory that explains why.

Seit Jahrzehnten steigen die Kosten für Bildung und Gesundheitsversorgung deutlich schneller als andere Güter. Der Baumol-Effekt ist eine oft übersehene und unterschätzte Wirtschaftstheorie, die erklärt, warum das so ist.

几十年来，教育和医疗费用的上涨速度远远快于其他商品。鲍莫尔效应，这个经常被忽视和低估的经济理论解释了为何如此。

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Ari Shapiro. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Now, teachers are supposed to educate everyone, but some students make it easier than others. In The Chronicle of Higher Education, Professor Charles Rinehimer pays tribute to the ones who keep him going. He writes: That student diligently taking notes, nodding to show me he's with me, laughing at my hilarious jokes, doesn't see what I see. He doesn't see the student texting through class or just staring at me like I'm the jailer holding the class in bondage. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: This hour, we want to hear from teachers and professors. Who's the student you'll remember when you reach the end of your career? We often hear about inspiring teachers so this hour, tell us about your most inspiring students. Our number is 1-800-989-8255. You can email us at talk.npr.org. Charlie Rinehimer is a biology professor at Northampton Community College in Bethlehem, Pa. He has taught there for 23 years, and his Chronicle of Higher Ed piece is called "The Student and the Spark." He joins us via Skype from his office there in Bethlehem. Welcome to TALK OF THE NATION. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Thank you very much. It's an honor to be here. I'm a big fan of the show. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Thank you. So I understand you adapted this commentary from an acceptance speech that you gave for a teaching award, and you said that you had always hoped to win just so that you could give this speech. Why was this message so important to you? CHARLES RINEHIMER: It was extremely important to me because I didn't figure - I could not figure out a good way to let my students know how important they are in the educational process. Let me just give you an example, kind of an analogy. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Yeah, please. CHARLES RINEHIMER: If you go to a concert and it's a band you hadn't heard before, at first, you sit in the audience and you listen to the first couple of songs. But then as the band gets going, you get into the music. You begin to cheer. You begin to dance. You begin to sing along. And so it becomes a perpetual motion machine. The band feeds off of the professor - I'm sorry, the audience, the audience feeds off of the band. Well, these days, education is a performance art. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So basically, you're saying you're a rock star? CHARLES RINEHIMER: Well, yeah, I think maybe we are, in a way. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: I love the opening line of this essay. You said: It's been said that education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire. Well, I teach high-content biology courses, so I have filled a lot of buckets. And I'm sure my students would be glad to tell you what they think I have filled them with. CHARLES RINEHIMER: That's exactly right. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Biology does not seem like the most obviously inspiring subject. CHARLES RINEHIMER: I think that that's not true. I think biology is incredibly interesting. If you take a look at the world around you, you're looking at biology. And I think if you use the right videos, if you use the right YouTube, if you get students out into the field, I think it's very easy to get them excited about biology. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Tell us about one student who you remember most. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Well, one that I wrote about in the article was a young student we had here. She was home-schooled, and she came to the college at age 15, and she basically took our department by storm. She was just an outstanding student. And in my Bio 2 class, I gave the students the option that if they turn their term papers in early, I'll make comments, and they can rewrite them for a higher grade. And unfortunately, they hardly ever do that. But this student turned her paper in four weeks early, and it was just outstanding. I made a few comments about further readings she could do, and I gave her a score of 196 out of 200. CHARLES RINEHIMER: The next week, she resubmitted the paper not because she needed the four points; she didn't. Her scores were outstanding. But because she said that after reading my content - after reading my comments, that she could do better. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: You... CHARLES RINEHIMER: And that is just the kind of thing that you teach for. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: You also talked about students you've had who have come from really difficult backgrounds, in some cases, abusive relationships. Tell us about those. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Yes. The very first semester that I taught, 23 years ago, I taught a night section in anatomy and physiology for our nursing students, people trying to get into our nursing department. And I had three students that were from battered relationships. And they would come to class in tears. They'd sometimes come to class with bruises, but they embraced the subject. They worked with me. And by the end of the semester, they got A's, and on the last night, they all gave me a hug as they walked out of my class and into our nursing department, and out of their terrible lives at home. So those are just emotional things that, you know, I'll never forget. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Oh, the power of an education. Let's take a call from Diane(ph), who's in Illinois. Hi, Diane. Go ahead. DIANE: Hello. Well, I was just calling - I'm sitting on the side of the road - I just left Des Moines, where I taught school for 29 years. And I've been going - I've been retired now for a few years, and I've been going back through all my papers. And I found a letter from a student that I had had, and she wrote to me a few years after she left. Her name was Kim(ph). And she said, I'm writing to you to let you know that you really made a difference in my life, and I want you to keep this paper with you so that you will know all your life that you've made a difference in my life. And I've had other... ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: What age did you teach? DIANE: I taught English; she was a ninth-grader. I had her for two years, in eighth and ninth grade. And then - and I've had others who would run into me, a couple of different people on the street, and say that I had helped them. And it has always made me feel like, as a teacher, it was really a wonderful career and that I know that I did - that it was something that I had helped students with, growing up and to be pretty good people. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: You know, I imagine in a career that spans decades - as a teacher, there must be some dark nights of the soul where you lose sight of that, and wonder if you really are helping anyone at all or having any difference at all. DIANE: Yes, you wonder that often. DIANE: So these bright spots just make you continue. And I've been working with people at Grand Valley State University in Michigan, who are going in to teaching. And so it's been nice to be able to give them encouragement as they start doing their internships in student teaching, to let them know that those dark nights and dark days aren't always there; that there are many, many bright spots. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: All right, Diane. Thanks so much for the call. And let's go to another caller. We have Rhiannon(ph) in Orlando, Fla. Hi, Rhiannon. Go ahead. RHIANNON: Well - hello? ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Yeah, go ahead. RHIANNON: Hi. Sorry. What I have to say, one the reasons that we teach, and one of the things that's great, is just hearing these two people that I've, you know, heard so far. I wish my kids thought I was a rock star. RHIANNON: And, like, you know, I - sorry. I'm going to cry. It is hard sometimes, you know, to get - I'm only a second-year teacher, so I guess have a different perspective. But in terms of the kids that you'll remember, for me, it's the ones that are - that sort of give the most trouble. I currently teach 10th grade standard level - which is, you know, at this kind of lowest level class that we have at the high school. And actually, I volunteered to take on four periods, and people look at me like I'm crazy. RHIANNON: But I have this one student and he, at the beginning of the year, was - you know, part of a group of boys. They have about six or seven of them. And it's now - school ends in two days, and he is the only one of this group of seven that is still in my class. Every - all the other boys have either been expelled or have dropped out. And so just the fact that he's still there and that, you know, he'll come after class if he gets something, you know, if he made a comment that was out of line, and he'll come back and apologize. RHIANNON: And he has this big, tough-guy exterior. And, you know, his brother is in jail, and he just has a really tough home life. And the fact that he spoke after class to me and that he's still there, he's going to pass - it might be with a D average, but he is going to pass. And I feel good about that, and I'll remember him for that. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: And has he talked to you about why he stays when so many of his friends have been expelled or dropped out? RHIANNON: You know, sort of. I think he just - he plays football, and so he does have something to sort of look forward to and keep him going, in that way. I think he, more than the others, realized that there, you know, as much as you can hate sitting through a class and you might not like that teacher and disagree with what they say or think that this won't matter, I think that he recognizes the value of people that maybe know a little something different than what he knows. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: All right, Rhiannon. RHIANNON: To have a different say. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Thank you for the call ,and for the work that you do. I appreciate it. RHIANNON: Oh, gosh. Thank you so much. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Ari, I think you can already hear the emotion in these people's voices. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Absolutely. You know, I was going to ask - Charlie Rinehimer, you have taught for years at Northampton Community College, and I assume that at a community college, your students are not necessarily the most elite, the most privileged, the people who've had access to every luxury in the world. How does that affect your experience as a teacher? CHARLES RINEHIMER: I think it enriches it. We see such a broad background: students that are 18 years old; students that are 45, 50, 60 years old. And so we see a lot of students from different ethnic backgrounds, from different educational backgrounds. And although that makes it a challenge, it also makes the classroom a very unique and rewarding experience. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: All right. I want to take another caller. This is Perry(ph) in Houston, Texas. We're getting so many good stories coming out over the line. Perry, please, go ahead. TERRY: Hi. It's Terry(ph), actually. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Oh, sorry about that, Terry. TERRY: That's quite all right. I was just saying, I've been teaching for just about 20 years. I taught junior high and high school for just over half of that time, and I've been teaching at the university level. And an inspiring story, for me, is a young woman that I had just graduated this past semester from college. I taught her in college. She became - both of her parents died of drug overdoses and AIDS-related complications before she reached adolescence. She became a teen mom at 15, but still managed to live in Dallas and go to school just outside of Houston. TERRY: Her grandmother took care of her son during the week, and she would go home on the weekends to see him. She graduated in four years and with honors, and is now enrolled in a graduate program. And those kind of stories inspire me. She's the type of student who came to get help when and if she needed it, and never complained. But that's what keeps me going. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: And do you plan to keep in touch with her as she goes on through life? TERRY: Yes. In fact, we were just talking yesterday. (LAUGHTER) ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So she clearly knows what an impact she has had on you? TERRY: Yes. She has had a huge impact on me and - which is why, although I knew her for one semester, I felt compelled to help her with the application process to getting into graduate school, back where her son is and... ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Wow. TERRY: ...how - all types of aid programs that she can qualify for. CHARLES RINEHIMER: That's outstanding. That's amazing. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: We are talking this hour about inspiring students, and you're listening to TALK OF THE NATION on NPR News. Charlie Rinehimer, talk about the other side of this equation - the apathetic students. How much do they affect the experience, and how widespread are they? CHARLES RINEHIMER: Unfortunately, they're fairly widespread, and that's a shame. And we see that, I think, at the community college to a higher extent because I think some of our students are being forced by their parents to go to college, and so they really don't want to be here. And they really are a - sort of a black hole in a classroom in that they will suck the energy out of it, if you let them. And so... ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So it's not that they're just an empty space that's not contributing, but they really sort of drain, you're saying. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's the one place where the rock star analogy falls apart because the person in the audience who isn't responding to the music doesn't really affect the rock star much. But the instructor, really, personally takes that as a sort of a slight, you know. Why can't I get through to them? Why can't I reach them? And that's an energy drain and - it really is. Oh, absolutely. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Mm-hmm. Has that changed much in your 20-some years of teaching? CHARLES RINEHIMER: I don't - I know a lot of my colleagues feel that it has, but I'm not sure that it has. I think - I still see, at the community college, sort of an invert - an inversed bell curve, where we have just absolutely exceptional students on one end and then students that are incredibly difficult to reach, on the other. And I don't think that's changed that much. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: So having an iPhone in their hand doesn't necessarily make them more withdrawn? CHARLES RINEHIMER: Well, texting is a big deal. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Yeah. CHARLES RINEHIMER: It really is. I mean, you'll see a lot of students and they put it under the desk and, you know, they basically tune you out. And yeah, that has had an impact, I think. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: We have another story now from Colleen(ph) in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Colleen. You're on the air. Go ahead. COLLEEN: Hi, Ari. Thanks for taking my call. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Sure. COLLEEN: I think that there are probably two students that I would love to mention just because of the qualities they had. One would be a girl named Carly(ph), and the other would be a boy named Patrick(ph). And what both of these students had was that essential desire to learn, and they always took learning to the extra level. For example, they would finish an assignment; and they would say, what I can I do next? And they challenged and inspired me to make them do more, just because I knew they were capable of it. COLLEEN: For example, Patrick was a minority student in a suburban district, who readily could have been on the fringe, or not have really been paid attention to. But he demanded my attention, as a learner. And when he finished an assignment, I said to him, why don't you go ahead and write a screenplay? And at 16 years old, he did. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Wow. COLLEEN: Yeah. And somehow, he... ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Now, tell us what age, and what subject, you were teaching. COLLEEN: I was teaching English at a suburban high school in Ohio, to sophomores. So they were 16 years old, at the time. And, you know, I think that - I actually taught high school and now, I'm a professor at a university. But I think the big thing that is still inspirational to us professors - and I think your speaker has addressed this - is that we want learners who are there to truly engage in the learning process; not just, for example, to get grades or to fill the seats. And, you know, sometimes learners can be passive; that the ones that inspire us are the ones who, indeed, make us think about how we can allow them to achieve all that they are capable of achieving while they're with us. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Thanks a lot for the call, Colleen. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Yeah. COLLEEN: Thank you. CHARLES RINEHIMER: I think that not all of our best students are A students. I've had C students that I consider excellent students because they were so engaged and really into the educational process. So I really don't think it has to do with a letter grade, even. It has to do with enthusiasm. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Well, talk to me about this: I understand some of the pushback on your essay has been commenters saying, listen, you should be fighting to engage every student. You shouldn't just - you know - take the ones who come in and hand in their papers early, as inspiration. So how do you respond to that? CHARLES RINEHIMER: I think that's absolutely true. But I think the - what they didn't see, in my article, was if you teach to a high level, if you assume that you're trying to reach everyone at a level that they can understand, how can you possibly not bring them along? I mean, I think the idea is to get a class that's engaged, and let that be the ship that's going to pull those people with it. And so the problem is, if you spend too much time on those students that are not engaged, the students that are engaged become bored. CHARLES RINEHIMER: And in today's society, that's one thing I'll state about our learners is they get bored easily. And so you really can't spend too much of your energy and time on the student that really doesn't want to be there, and let the rest of the class - that is trying to work along - fall by the wayside. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: We have an email here from Mike Reed(ph) in Sheridan, Ore., who writes: I taught a required finance course at Oregon State. I learned to give enough information for the A students to get an A and then concentrated on the C students to get them inspired. My favorite student was on the football team - he says. He was smart, but treated like a football player by professors. He came into my office a quarter after he had earned an A and showed me how he'd applied and been accepted to Stanford for an MBA with a finance emphasis. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: He thanked me for showing him how to love numbers and financial statements, and I always used him as motivation when I was in one of those classes teaching folks who just can't wait until the class ends. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Charlie Rinehimer, had you had experience with biology students who did not think they loved biology until they got to the end of your course, and then went on to pursue it? CHARLES RINEHIMER: Oh, yes. Yes. Quite a few. In fact, in different aspects of that, I had a student - I also teach a course in our veterinary technology program... ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Similar experience there, I assume. You know, I'm afraid I have to cut you short. We're reaching the end of the segment. But... CHARLES RINEHIMER: Oh. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: ...I want to thank you for joining us. Charlie Rinehimer, teacher for 23 years at Northampton Community College in Bethlehem, Pa. His piece in the Chronicle of Higher Ed is called "The Student and the Spark," and you can find a link to it at our website. CHARLES RINEHIMER: Tomorrow, as speculation swirls over who will be the next head of the FBI, we'll talk about what's next for the organization, so join us for that. This is TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR News. I'm Ari Shapiro in Washington.

In a commentary in The Chronicle of Higher Education, professor Charles Rinehimer pays tribute to the completely engaged students who gave him the strength to deal with tough cases. Read Charles Rinehimer's Chronicle Of Higher Education piece "The Student and the Spark."

In einem Kommentar in Chronik der Hochschulbildung (The Chronicle of Higher Education) würdigt Professor Charles Rinehimer die engagierten Studierenden, die ihm die Kraft gegeben haben, schwierige Fälle zu bewältigen. Lesen Sie Charles Rinehimers Artikel in Chronik der Hochschulbildungder (Chronicle of Higher Education) \"Der Student und der Funke.\"

在《高等教育编年史》的一篇评论文章中，查尔斯·里内海默教授赞扬了那些全身心投入的学生，正是这些学生给了他处理棘手案件的力量。阅读查尔斯·里内海默的《高等教育编年史》中的文章《学生与火花》。

NEAL CONAN, HOST: This season, dance legend Bill T. Jones celebrates the 30th anniversary of the foundation of the Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance Company, a collaboration that became an innovative force in modern dance. Over those three decades, Bill T. Jones created more than 140 works for his company, won countless awards including two Tonys for "Spring Awakening" and "Fella" and a MacArthur Genius grant when he merged his dance company with the Dance Theater Workshop to form New York Live Arts. He declared, we are wild about the future. In the latest series of conversations, looking ahead, we'll find out why. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We want to hear from dancers and choreographers in the audience. As funding, exposure and audiences diminish? Are you wild about the future? 800-989-8255. Email us: talk@npr.org. You could also join the conversation at our website, that's at npr.org, click on TALK OF THE NATION. Bill T. Jones joins us from rehearsal with his dance troupe at State University of New York at Purchase. Good to have you back in the program. NEAL CONAN, HOST: BILL T. JONES: It's great to be here. Thank you for that introduction. It's quite a challenge. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, I was going to ask you, are the challenges today, do you think, any great than those you faced when you started out 30 years ago. JONES: You know, sounds like that kind of a question, when you ask me when was my teenage years - were my teenage years harder than your teenager years. You know, there's - some things always remain the same. I would say it's just more difficult now to live, particularly in the urban centers like New York or Chicago. Whereas, when I got to New York you could ride the subway for 25 cents. Now I think - I don't ride the subway very much. I'm going to live in the suburbs. I think it's like $2.50 a trip. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Yeah. I think you're right. JONES: Yeah. People if - they're just in more pressure right now to pay those bills. There's more - there's less time to be spontaneous and it takes much more of a certain kind of steely determination to do something that doesn't fall into - let's face it, the entertainment matrix that our - and celebrity matrix that our country is embroiled in right now. So dance for a lot of people means "Do You Think You Can Dance,"(ph) "So You Think You Can Dance" or competition and that's why it's like a contact sport now, creativity. JONES: But some people hold to this other idea that it's a privilege we have to make something that's untried and that's what we're trying to do in my company and in this wonderful merger with the historic Dance Theater Workshop that has resulted in New York Live Arts in lower Manhattan. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And what makes you wild about the future? JONES: That's a bit hyperbole, isn't it? Well... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Yeah. JONES: On my good days, I think I have no alternative but to have a forward momentum because I believe that art making is, well, let's say so without embarrassing myself or anyone, is a spiritual activity. And the culture right now is kind of confused. What is really worth doing and is not about making a buck? And what is that, beauty, building community, telling the truth, what have you? And all of those things make me excited when I meet young people who are art makers. And they seem not to have gotten the memo that the world is going down the toilet. They seem to think the world is just another place for them to act up their dreams, and I say amen. JONES: So our place is about encouraging people to have faith in the future. And cynicism, I don't know if I feel it in my middle-aged bones. Cynicism is really a poison. The future tells us that we cannot afford to be cynical - skeptical maybe - but there's a hopefulness that I think beauty and art and meaning brings us, and I'm wild about that. JONES: You know, we're - we have a program called The Suitcase Fund. The Suitcase Fund, it takes place in Africa and in Asia and Middle East. But one thing about that is that we sign people internationally now under terrible situations, still have the desire to make dance, to make art. Now, they need a place. They need champions in this rich country of ours. I take that to be a responsibility and reason to be wild about the future, because they're coming. They are not going to be stopped. They're moving forward. Are we ready to move forward? That's what New York Live Arts is about, and that's what I'm trying to be about in my company as well. NEAL CONAN, HOST: I was going to ask you about responsibility. You have had tremendous success. Of course you worked very hard for it. You have had tremendous success, but that success brings with it a certain responsibility. JONES: Oh, yes, it does, doesn't it? Please, you're talking to a guy who's feeling very much his 61 years right now. I know that's nothing. My companion's mother is 93 and she's with us for a few weeks in Paris. So everything I say here I take with some humility. Yes, there is something about gravity that pulls on us that tells us to stop, you know? JONES: It literally pulls on our bodies, but it also pulls on our spirits, you know? And I have a responsibility, I think, to tell the truth when I can. Here at (unintelligible) we're starting a new work. But we have been graced with six young students who are apprentices. I've never seen them before, but they had applied and they were accepted. I didn't know them. They walk into the room. What do I owe them? I owe them an honest experience of what it means to have a 30-year-old company with an infrastructure, with a wonderful co-artistic director, Janet Wong. I owe them the - a full exposure to what is beautiful in the creative process and sometimes what's a little shocking and frightening in it as well. That's the responsibility. JONES: No to abusiveness. I owe them the discipline. And God knows I can throw a temper tantrum like anybody else, but I've also got to know how to say I'm sorry. I've got to show them that artists are not dysfunctional. We're passionate but we have a responsibility we should be trying to operate, leading with our hearts and our minds. That's what I owe them. JONES: Whether I owe the legislation - do I need to say it again, as I've said to Bill Maher on political - on his show on HBO, when he was ragging the NEA, said we don't need it. I said, look, artists are - this is not so flattering - we're the earthworms. We oftentimes go into difficult social situations and because of this kind of doggedness and this belief in something, artists can turn an old broken down building into an art center. And then after we've been there for a while, the restaurants show up, the coffee shops, the gentrification happens. You should invest in us, those of you who control the purse strings because we are the earthworms. We break up that dried up, pounded down soil so that things can grow. That's my pitch to the policymakers. I think we owe that to the discourse. Yeah, yeah, I'll getting off my soapbox now. NEAL CONAN, HOST: OK. Bill T. Jones is with us, the dancer and choreographer. You also - you talked about gravity. You take risks as a performer too. You're not just telling other people to do it. JONES: Is that what you call it, my madness? Yeah, I guess I do, right. Yes. What do you mean? For instance, you know, I won a Tony for "Spring Awakening." NEAL CONAN, HOST: Mm-hmm. JONES: "Spring Awakening," there is - it's a story of, you know, young star-crossed lovers and all, but it's held together - Michael Mayer, the director, was really wise, and he asked me to come in because at that time I was an unknown in Broadway world. He wanted someone from another world. I came in and said - and offered things that we do all the time in downtown dance, you know, discontinuous movements, gesture that's not connected to narrative. And many, many people found it, like, oh my God. Where is this coming from? And Russell was like, are you kidding? We've been doing this for the last - well, if you think about Isadora Duncan - the last 100 years. But if you think about the (unintelligible) church, it's like 40, 50 years. But it's all about context. That's where the risk was, just bringing things from one context into another. JONES: It's like once upon a time. Arnie Zane and I were two men. I was 20, he was maybe 21, and we decided we're going to live like open lovers in Binghamton, New York, a small community. Try walking down the street in a town like that. We knew what we were doing, but for others it was a provocation. It was the most natural thing in the world to do but it suddenly was heightened because of the context. That's our world right now, isn't it? What is allowed in the streets of Manhattan? Take it to Kabul. JONES: You think that you - I'll tell you what. Own up to being an atheist in certain parts of our country and run for public office. It's nothing. We all know that there are atheists in our midst. Some of us are atheists. But what does it mean when you walk want the public platform and you want to walk into the mainstream and say, I'm out, this is who I am. That's when the sparks fly and potentially that's when change happens. That's where I have tried to live, and that's where I want my dancers to live, and that's where I want New York Live Arts to be. We've got to be part of the bigger context. That's it. JONES: The avant-garde has a problem. Sometimes we paint our way into a corner. I understand why, but we - there's that responsibility again. Sometimes you've got to take it out into the marketplace, out into the world to really test your principles. That's risk-taking. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We want to hear from dancers and choreographers about the challenges they face today. Does it make them wild about the future? 800-989-8255. Email: talk@npr.org. Lee is with us from Indianapolis. LEE: Hello. Hi, Neal. Thank you so much for your wonderful show. And Mr. Jones, thank you so much for all the beautiful work you've given dance and the arts. JONES: Thank you. Thank you. LEE: I'm originally from New York City but I'm now living in Indianapolis, and I'm working as a choreographer for several high school show groups and a couple of groups on the middle school level as well. And I noticed that for many children, especially in this part of the country, their first exposure to the arts is through high school music classes and programs. And those programs (technical difficulties) cut severely with the current financial, I guess, environment. But also just over the years these programs have just been cut more and more. LEE: And many of my students have never seen a Broadway show, they've never seen a performance on stage other than what they themselves have done in the school setting. And it's very difficult to educate children in the arts when the funding has been cut so much and their exposure to it is so limited. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Bill T. Jones, what was your first exposure? Where did you first see dance? JONES: Well, I come from a migrant worker family living in upstate New York, having migrated from the South. Back during the heady days of the Kennedy administration, there was money around to build a gymnasium and hire a drama teacher. I was lucky. Fourth grade, I had someone there who was asking me to stand up and show off. It was wonderful. JONES: Now, I hear the caller saying that those dollars are less and less around. Well, it sounds like in the caller herself there is - she has a mission, she has a job. I think there is a lot of ways that people now - with the Internet, with television - can see things. JONES: Now, it's not the same thing as live performance. It's true. But I think that there - it is not as - I don't think it's as much of a desert as it was when I was child. JONES: I would challenge the caller, what are the other people in your community feeling about this? And how are you, as one voice, lobbying, saving, directing - how are you, as one voice, indentifying the qualities that you want from professional arts? And how can you find a way - and believe me, this is the truth. This is (unintelligible) right now. How can you find a way to grow them in your community? Who is graduating from the university? JONES: This is one very, very interesting idea people have right now. You no longer have to get a degree in dance and run off to New York. Maybe you need to get a degree in dance and go give yourself to a community. And in that community you begin - you continue growing as an artist, and you are developing in aesthetic in that town. You start somewhere. Because I know the feeling of hopelessness. We can't afford the hopelessness. JONES: Just to recap. Are you yourself talking the talk and walking the walk? Are you making coalitions with other people, other towns? And do you really know what it is that you want to express? What it is that you want the young people to take away? JONES: That is what I - that's the only response I can give right now. There is no guide book, unfortunately. We live in an era of crazy government. You've got to find a way really to do it on your own and use those college students. God knows there's so many people getting degrees in college in modern dance. What are they going to do with them? Well, give them something to do. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Lee, thanks very much and good luck. LEE: Thank you. Thank you both so much. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We're talking Bill T. Jones. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And let's go to Sophia. Sophia with us from Nashville. SOPHIA: Hi. This is so exciting. First, I want to say thank you, Mr. Jones, for the inspiration and hope. My question is about - I just want to ask you what you think defiance means, because as a choreographer in a high school that can be kind of homogenous, people often ask me (unintelligible) is being creative an act of defiance. And I don't feel like it is. I feel it's just how I exist, but I'm kind of wondering why. JONES: Well, first of all, don't be afraid to be defiant, you know? And I think - now, you're talking to an old rebel here - that art is made when something is being pushed against. SOPHIA: OK. JONES: And I think that's OK. That's noble, as a matter of fact. We do not have to be obnoxious with it. We do not have to shut ourselves off in kind of gated communities of taste, if you will. But don't be afraid to transgress and say no, and to say you might think this is beautiful but take a look at this. That is almost the job description of a good artist, you know. SOPHIA: Right. JONES: Did that make sense to you? SOPHIA: Yes. I just think it's really interesting that finding things that are beautiful, that are different, is almost an aggressive act in this. JONES: Well, you know, I love hearing you speak because, you know, many of us despair on being original because it seems that everything that we find, that we think is absolutely beautiful is a bit like inventing the wheel. JONES: If you study, you see somebody's already - if not proposed the idea, then taking it to quite a level of development. Humility and education. When you have an original idea, act on it but look around, read history and what has been done. That's part of the game right now. JONES: Culture is not only in this moment, in this geographical location but it spreads, it spreads out through time. Can you connect with this idea as it was being expressed in Paris, in Rome, in London? Can you connect with what's being done in China, in India? And how do you do that? Well, that's one thing about the Internet, which is really useful. Humility but also you got to be fierce. JONES: I can't say the other part of that out loud. But you've got to be a fierce SOB. That's part of the job description about being an effective artist. Generosity of heart goes with that as well. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Sophia, good luck. SOPHIA: Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And thanks so much for the phone call. Bill T. Jones, it's been a pleasure to speak with you, as always. JONES: Well, that was fast. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Yeah. JONES: But it's great. NEAL CONAN, HOST: It goes quick. And good luck with the show on Purchase. JONES: Thank you. And please let people know about New York Live Arts, 219 West 19th Street in Manhattan. We're wild about the future. OK? NEAL CONAN, HOST: We'll link to that address at our website, go to npr.org, click on TALK OF THE NATION. Tomorrow, TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY with the best science books for your summer reading list and Ari Shapiro will be in the host chair on Monday. We'll see you again on Wednesday. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.

Over three decades, Bill T. Jones created more than 140 works for the Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance Company. This season, dance legend Bill T. Jones celebrates the 30th anniversary of the Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance company, a collaboration that became an innovative force in modern dance. Over the years, Jones has created more than 140 works for the company and in 2010, the dance troupe merged with Dance Theater Workshop to create New York Live Arts. As part of Talk of the Nation's "Looking Ahead" series, Jones talks with NPR's Neal Conan about his hopes for the future of modern dance.

Über drei Jahrzehnte hat Bill T. Jones mehr als 140 Werke für die Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance Company geschaffen. In dieser Saison feiert die Tanzlegende Bill T. Jones das 30-jährige Jubiläum der Bill T. Jones/Arnie Zane Dance Company, einer Zusammenarbeit, die zu einer innovativen Kraft im modernen Tanz wurde. Im Laufe der Jahre hat Jones mehr als 140 Werke für die Compagnie geschaffen und 2010 fusionierte die Tanztruppe mit Tanztheater-Studio (Dance Theatre Workshop), um New York Live-Kunst (New York Live Arts) zu kreieren. Im Rahmen der Reihe \"Blick in die Zukunft (Looking Ahead)\" von Gespräch der Nation (Talk of the Nation) spricht Jones mit Neal Conan von NPR über seine Hoffnungen für die Zukunft des modernen Tanzes.

30多年来，比尔·T·琼斯为比尔·T·琼斯/阿尼·赞恩舞蹈公司创作了140多件作品。本季，舞蹈传奇人物比尔·T·琼斯庆祝比尔·T·琼斯/阿尼·赞恩舞蹈公司成立30周年，该公司的合作成为现代舞蹈的创新力量。多年来，琼斯为该公司创作了140多件作品，2010年，该舞蹈团与舞蹈剧院工作室合并，创建了纽约现场艺术。作为国家“展望未来”系列节目的一部分，琼斯与NPR的尼尔·柯南谈论了他对现代舞未来的希望。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: This is Day to Day, I'm Madeleine Brand. ALEX COHEN, host: And I'm Alex Cohen. The NBC comedy, "30 Rock" is one of the most popular shows today. Tina Fey took home the Golden Globe last year for her performance as TV producer, Liz Lemon. Ms. TINA FEY (As Liz Lemon): There's a picture on my phone, an adult picture of me. Mr. ALEC BALDWIN: (As Jack) (Laughing) What? Ms. TINA FEY (As Liz Lemon): (As Liz Lemon): Drew took it as a joke. I'm making a face like this - why am I telling you this? Mr. ALEC BALDWIN: (As Jack) Top and bottom? May I speak with Aziv? ALEX COHEN, host: When "30 Rock" got started, though, our critic Andrew Wallenstein was not a big fan of Fey's performance. Here is what he had to say in 2006. ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Now, from behind the weekend update desk, there was no one better at tossing off clever putdowns. But you recall any other SNL sketches where she stood out? That's because for all her brilliance as a writer, Fey strikes me as rather dull to be the focal point of a sitcom, a potentially fatal flaw for 30 Rock. ALEX COHEN, host: Andrew called us to say he's had a recent change of heart about Tina Fey. He joins us now in the studio. Hi, Andrew. ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Hi there. ALEX COHEN, host: So, rather dull to be the focal point of a sitcom. Ouch! ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Yeah. Do you think I could have picked a bigger sacred cow-tative from Tina Fey? ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: I mean, what was I thinking? ALEX COHEN, host: Well, let's be fair. This was before the days of her run as a Sarah Palin impersonator. But now, what's up? You like her now? ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Well, here's a thing. I'm going to give you sort of a half-defense, half-fall on the sword here. ALEX COHEN, host: All right. ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: In my defense, the pilot for 30 Rock was not that great and I don't think it made particularly good use of her. So, like a lot of great shows, and I do think 30 Rock is the best comedy on the air right now, it took some time to get there. On the other hand, here's my mea culpa. I think I misunderstood her character. I talked a bit in that earlier review about how she was kind of upstaged by Alec Baldwin and Tracy Morgan. I didn't realize that was kind of the point. She's supposed to be dull. She's sort of - her whole character as she's dishwater personified. ALEX COHEN, host: Do you think anything might have to do with her performance and how it has evolved? I mean, this really has come after this big turning point that happened for her when she was able to play Sarah Palin and nail that part so well. Do you see her performance changed? Is there more confidence to it? ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: I really do. I think even Tina Fey herself would probably admit that the person who started that show back in '06 is not the same as she is now. I think she simply become a better performer, she's grown into the role. ALEX COHEN, host: Is there are bigger lesson to be learned here for TV shows and for critics… ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Perhaps or... ALEX COHEN, host: That they should be given a bit more time? ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Yes, perhaps for critics. You know, it's tough for us critics when you get one episode to look at and then you have to judge an entire show. You do your best. And unfortunately, with TV, sometimes you don't really get in to the groove until, God, sometimes a season or two it takes. ALEX COHEN, host: Now, you are a critic. You write something. It's printed in out there. What do you do in a situation like this? Can you go back and do a take back, say OK, I'm OK with Tina Fey now? ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: You know, that is actually pretty common among critics where, at least on the TV side, they'll go back and revisit a show and give a second opinion. Have I done that for "30 Rock"? No, but that's why I'm here today. ALEX COHEN, host: Andrew Wallenstein is digital media editor at the Hollywood Reporter. Thanks Andrew. ANDREW WALLENSTEIN: Thanks.

When the sitcom 30 Rock debuted a few years back, critic Andrew Wallenstein wasn't impressed. Now he's rethinking his opinion. Wallenstein offers some thoughts about how a critic goes about changing his mind.

Als die Sitcom 30 Rock vor ein paar Jahren debütierte, war Kritiker Andrew Wallenstein nicht beeindruckt. Jetzt überdenkt er seine Meinung. Wallenstein bietet einige Gedanken darüber, wie ein Kritiker seine Meinung ändert.

几年前，当情景喜剧《我为喜剧狂》初次亮相时，评论家安德鲁·沃伦斯坦并不为所动。现在他在重新考虑这件事。华伦斯坦提供了一些关于评论家如何改变想法的思考。

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Good morning. I'm Rachel Martin. Public transit certainly has its drawbacks - overcrowding, loud talkers, manspreading. Commuters on a bus in St. Petersburg, Russia, almost had to deal with a problem even worse. Their bus paused at a stop, opened its doors, and a horse started to get on board. No telling why it was walking around free or where it wanted to go. The driver was able to put a stop to all the horsing around and close the doors before anyone could get hurt.

The bus paused at a stop, opened its doors and a horse started to get on board. No telling why it was walking around free — or where it wanted to go.

Der Bus hielt an einer Haltestelle, öffnete seine Türen und ein Pferd stieg ein. Keine Ahnung, warum es frei herumlief – oder wohin es wollte.

公共汽车在一个站停下来，打开车门，一匹马开始上车。不知道它为什么自由行走——或者它想去哪里。

TONY COX, host: Now, onto our Blogger's Roundtable. Here's what's hot online. Illinois Senator Roland Burris and the ongoing Blagojevich scandal, the stimulus package just signed by the president, and the so-called Obama effect and how that's changing the culture of America. With us, Jay Anderson of the blog Averabe Bro, self-described vigilante pundit, Baratunde Thurston. He writes for Jack & Jill Politics under the pseudonym, Jack Turner. And in a moment, we're going to be joined by political and social opinion writer Sophia Nelson. She's editor-in-chief of the Political Intersection blog. Hello, everybody. Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): Hello. TONY COX, host: Let's begin with Mr. Burris. As we mentioned earlier in the show, he said that he tried to raise money for former Governor Rod Blagojevich before he was appointed to fill Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat. Let's start with you, Jay. Why is this all over the blogs? And what are people saying? Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): It's all over the blogs because - I'll be honest, I came on this show, and I blogged myself, about a month ago, about the fact that I thought Burris should be seated. The reason for that was at that point in time, Governor Blagojevich, you know, there were no actions taken against him at that point in time, and I felt that he was perfectly within his rights to appoint Burris, you know, to fill the seat. TONY COX, host: Do you still feel that way? You still feel that way? Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): No, no, no, no! And the reason for that, I mean, the Senate was very clear with Burris about what it is that he needed to do to get the seat. Basically, they wanted him to go back to Illinois and be honest about whether this happened in terms of interactions with Blagojevich. Well, he didn't do that. You know, now a month or so later, it looks like, you know, Burris for whatever reason is coming out and pro-actively divulging the fact that he didn't put a lot of information out there. Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): You know, that maybe made things look like they weren't on the up and up. You know, that said, he's got to step down. I'm sorry. You have to. When you come into the Senate under those sorts of circumstances under which he did, you know, with the scrutiny that he did, you have to follow the rule of the law, and he didn't do that. He's got to go. TONY COX, host: Let me bring Baratunde in to ask you, do you think - or what you are seeing and hearing on the blogs, are people saying the same thing as Jay? They want him out? They think he wasn't truthful? Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): There's definitely a lot of doubt around the man who I'm starting to call Senator "What Had Happened Was" Burris. Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): The idea that he needs to step down is one, you know, point - a popular point, but the minimum is that there is absolutely no chance that he has any chance of getting reelected in 2010 if he's even able to weather this storm. A lot of folks are really skeptical and tried - even the Senate, initially, their first instinct was don't trust anything associated with Blagojevich. TONY COX, host: Well, you know, the interesting... Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): That was the right instinct. TONY COX, host: That was an interesting point that you raised, and Sophia, let me ask - let me put it to you this way. There was concern as Baratunde just said about seating him in the first place, but there is an argument that was made that the folks in Illinois and in the Senate felt that it was necessary to put him on because he was black and they didn't want to look like they were racists. And so, now that seems to have blown up, doesn't it? Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): Well, if that was their reason, it was the wrong reason. The lawyer in me, from the moment this happened, was very adamant about the fact that from a constitutional standpoint and from the constitution of the State of Illinois and otherwise, he had a legal right to be seated because he was appointed by a legally sitting governor at the time of the state. And so, that was always my point of view. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): However, in light of these new facts that are coming to light, I'm in agreement with the other gentlemen on this panel today. He has a serious credibility problem now, and I think it just continues to show that politics in Chicago and in the state of Illinois, you know, continue to be what we all know them to be. TONY COX, host: And in Washington D.C. as well. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): Oh, no doubt. No doubt. TONY COX, host: Let's talk about the stimulus package. The other big news coming yesterday as the president signed into law, the wide ranging $787 billion economic stimulus package that includes tax cuts and spending programs. So Jay, a lot of Americans expecting to get checks and tax breaks. Are their expectations too high? Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): I'm not sure the expectations are too high. I mean, if you look at the news, if you pay any attention to what's going on in the world, I mean, 600,000 people lost jobs in January alone. There's just - the government has to do something, and I think people's expectations are that some sort of action is taken, and that's what Obama's doing. Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): Now, you know, whether you agree with all the, you know, all the facets of the stimulus act or whether you think it needed to be more tax breaks you know, versus more spending. I mean, that's immaterial to me at this point. Reality is you have to do something. You know, no act of this magnitude - again, it's almost $800 billion - is going to be perfect. And unfortunately, there are obviously going to be some stumbles as this thing works itself out. Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): But I think Obama had no choice. And again, furthermore, the people who put him in office wanted something different. And here it is. TONY COX, host: So, Baratunde, here's my question for you. This - the enormity of the stimulus package is unprecedented in American financial history, and I'm wondering whether or not on the blogosphere, particularly the black blogosphere, it's getting the kind of attention and hits that Burris is getting. Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): Well, I can't speak for the entire black blogosphere. Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): But I (Soundbite of laughter) - what I can say is that the stimulus is getting a lot of attention, at least on Jackandjillpolitics.com and some of the other peers. People are looking through the state by state kind of job retention promises of the bill. And as Jay mentioned, the unprecedented size of this, I think, and the expectations not being so high, but what is also unprecedented is he - the transparency and attempt at accountability. We've never seen a government, you know, act followed up by a Web site to track how it's spent, and I'll be most curious to see not if the bill itself was perfect, but rather if the follow up is as honest and as open as we hope and expect it will be. TONY COX, host: Well, Sophia, there's been a lot of talk about the so-called bipartisan effort to get the stimulus package, if you count three Republicans as bipartisan. What public - what political backlash could there be if this bill does work, and if it doesn't work, bipartisan speaking? Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): Look, there was no bipartisanship on this. And I think - look, I'm a Republican. I support this president. I voted for him, but I don't like this bill at all. And for me, this issue's personal because I was one of those people that got downsized from my corporate America job last summer, haven't been able to find one since, and you know, I'm very well educated, very well qualified, and this economy is hitting everybody at every level, not just the poor, not just the middle class, but those of the professional class as well. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): That's why you're seeing the challenges with the home mortgages foreclosures. I see it in my neighborhood. Every other houses is either up for sale, or it's going downhill, and I live in a very nice neighborhood in Northern Virginia suburbs. And my point is is that I think black America's not paying enough attention to this issue on the blogosphere. On my site, I would say I probably have a 50-50 audience of African-American and then other. And we've been talking about it a lot but, as you know, when white America gets a runny nose, black America gets a cold. You know what I mean, the old expression that it always hits the black community in disproportionately high numbers. Unemployment - if it's eight percent in the U.S. economy, it's going to be 16 percent in the black community, in some places as high as 20 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent depending on what city you're looking at at the time. So I think this is an important issue for the black community, as it is for America certainly, but I think that we're not paying enough attention to it in a serious matter and we're getting too caught up in the pettiness of the politics of well, the Republicans don't want to support him and Rush Limbaugh's doesn't like the president. Who cares what Rush Limbaugh thinks to be real honest. I don't. I mean... TONY COX, host: Let me jump in to let our listeners know what we're doing and who were talking to. This is the Bloggers Roundtable, and I'm joined by Jay Anderson of the blog Average Bro. Also, by Baratunde Thurston who writes for Jack and Jill Politics under the pseudonym Jack Turner, and political and social opinion writer, Sophia Nelson. She's editor in chief of the Political Intersection blog. TONY COX, host: This is good conversation. Let's turn it a little bit to this point. The impact of the presidency of Barack Obama will resonate far beyond the White House and I want to talk about whether or not the Obama effect, as it so called, is having an effect on the blogosphere. Do you think that it is changing the role, Baratunde, of black blogs or perhaps it already has? Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): Well, it certainly has. I mean, as far back as a year ago, we certainly started getting more attention in traffic essentially from, you know, designated media outlets and spokespeople who realized, oh my good news, we don't know how to talk about black people and we're tired of going back to the same old reverend in a tracksuit sort of spokesperson… Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): Who's been saying the same thing. TONY COX, host: Who are you talking about, Baratunde? Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): I'm just throwing out examples out there. I'm just throwing out examples. TONY COX, host: OK. Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): So, I think what you had was really, you know, bloggers filling in for a job that the media itself was ill-prepared to handle, and you saw a lot of slip ups and a lot of ignorance about the race bating that was going on. So even now that will continue as folks realize, like, wow, black people are still here and they're kind of important. TONY COX, host: Well, Jay Anderson, are you getting more hits when you talk about Obama on your blog? Do you get a larger audience or no? Mr. JAY ANDERSON (Blogger, Average Bro): Oh, yes. I mean, everyone wants to talk politics and obviously, you know, I don't run a blog that's strictly political. I talk a lot about pop culture as well as sports and an array of other issues, but absolutely. I mean, the Obama - the run up in terms of, you know, the campaign and now of course that he's in office. I mean, people are always looking for alternative opinions that they do not hear in the mainstream media and I think that's absolutely where the black blogosphere, you know, comes into play. TONY COX, host: Well, Sophia, are you making any money, though, at it? Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): (Laughing). I think that - look I think, the opportunities since Barack Obama was inaugurated as president, for African-Americans who are journalist, pundits if you will, anyone that can write well, the opportunities are huge. I don't ever lack for people calling me, wanting me on TV shows whether it's conservative programs or more liberal ones, whether it's writing opportunities, corporate America, I'm speaking a lot more. I think that - is it Baratunde? I want to say his name right. TONY COX, host: Yes, yes. Baratunde. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): By the way, Baratunde, I'm in a tracksuit over here so... Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): Oh, my goodness. All right, I want to ask you what black people think. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): No, I'm kidding. I'm teasing. No, no. no. Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): You have a perm too? TONY COX, host: Oh, God. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): It's a pink one. No, I'm joking. At any rate, I am - the thing is is that he's absolutely right, though, that they - by they I mean mainstream media, didn't know how to incorporate opinions of African-Americans or the views of, wow, what's it going to be like to have a black president. A black first lady is even more huge. That's what we get a lot of hits on Political Intersection blog and my companion site Iasksisterblog.com, which is an organization for women of color, professional women of color. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): And the love for Michelle Obama is just - it's unbelievable how she has impacted the way the way that black women are looked at, for example. And there have been a lot of stories about her, as you know, what she wears, what her hair looks like, all of those things. So, black people are - it's the Cosby decade all over again, I think. It's, you know, we are... TONY COX, host: Absolutely. Listen, our time is running short. But I want to hit something else that's been coming up. It's about - you talked about images of Michelle Obama and Barack Obama. I want to talk about political cartoons since you all write a political blog where prominent people are shown in caricature. Now, with Obama this presents some touchy questions, and already a cartoon this week in the New York Post is drawing criticism from that guy in the jumpsuit because it shows a monkey which could be presumed to be the president. The Post of course, saying that that's absurd, but you see my point, Baratunde. Mr. BARATUNDE THURSTON (Blogger, Jack & Jill Politics): I absolutely do and here's the problem with this particular image. The history of, you know, comparing black people to primates is vile, and deep, and real. And it leads to actual practiced discrimination and violence. You see police brutality, you see discrimination. A lot of that is based in these subconscious painful images. And the reasonable interpretation of this cartoon is just what it is, that you got a dead, at the hands of police, monkey who is a stand in for the president of the United States. That's unacceptable and I'd like to point, there's a summit on February 26th, cple.psych.ucla.edu. It's people trying to study just this phenomena, how the psychological, you know, demands of racism, you know, become real in acts of police brutality and violence. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): Well, I think, if I can just interject quickly, is that... TONY COX, host: Make it - you can but make it quickly, please. Ms. SOPHIA NELSON (Blogger, Political Intersection): We - this culture, you know, we voted for a black man to be president, but it did not deal with the underlying causes of racism or prejudice that this country has had for - since its founding, and we're still not talking about it. We're talking around it. We're in love with the pop culture images but we're not dealing with the realities of a country psychological shift from seeing 43 white men be president to now the 44th being a black man, black family, black little girls running around, a dog is going to be in the White House soon. That's a culture shock to people. We're not... TONY COX, host: It is. I've got to stop you there only because our time is short. I appreciate all of you. We've been talking with Batatunde Thurston who blogs at the Huffington Post and Jack and Jill politics. He was at our NPR studios in New York. Jay Anderson of the blog Average Bro, he was at our headquarters in Washington, D.C. And political and social opinion writer Sophia Nelson, she's editor in chief of the Political Intersection blog, and was at member station WETA in Arlington, Virginia. And of course, you can find links to their blog as well as to ours at nprnewsandnotes.org. Thanks, everybody. TONY COX, host: Next on News and Notes, are you a Mr. or a Mrs.? A doctor or a dude? We talk about naming and how to address people, and your president. And, they were the children of slaves but that did not stop them from reaching for the American dream, their story coming up. TONY COX, host: You're listening to News and Notes from NPR News.

News & Notes Web producer Geoffrey Bennett and Tony Cox talk about the growing trend of micro-blogging, Facebook's about-face on user privacy, and response to the week's news on our blog.

News & Notes Webproduzent Geoffrey Bennett und Tony Cox sprechen über den wachsenden Trend zum Mikroblogging, die Kehrtwende von Facebook beim Datenschutz und die Reaktionen auf die Nachrichten der Woche in unserem Blog.

News & Notes网站创建人杰弗里·贝内特和托尼·考克斯谈论了微博客的发展趋势、Facebook关于用户隐私的报道，并回应了我们博客上的本周新闻。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: Good morning. I'm David Greene with an update on a chicken sandwich you've heard about on this program - you know, the sandwich that started a social media storm, the one you can't have because Popeyes sold out its inventory for the rest of this month. Well, now the fast food chain is saying, wait, you can have our sandwich. You just need to get the ingredients and make it yourself. They say, bring your own bun. It will be fun. Do I sound like I'm having fun, Popeyes?

Popeyes sold out of its chicken sandwich inventory for the rest of the month. The chicken chain says customers can bring their own bun, order chicken tenders and make their own sandwich.

Popeyes hat seinen Bestand an Hähnchensandwiches für den Rest des Monats ausverkauft. Die Hühnerkette sagt, dass Kunden ihr eigenes Brötchen mitbringen, Hähnchenstreifen bestellen und ihr eigenes Sandwich zubereiten können.

大力水手的鸡肉三明治已经在这个月售罄了。这家炸鸡连锁店表示，顾客可以自带面包、点鸡柳、自制三明治。

ALEX COHEN, host: From the studios of NPR West, this is Day to Day. I'm Alex Cohen. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And I'm Madeleine Brand. ALEX COHEN, host: President Barack Obama delivered a 52-minute speech to a joint session of Congress last night, and it came as little surprise that the economy dominated his address. President BARACK OBAMA: It's the worry you wake up with and the source of sleepless nights. It's the job you thought you'd retire from, but now have lost. The business you built your dreams upon that's now hanging by a thread, the college acceptance letter your child had to put back in the envelope. ALEX COHEN, host: For more on last night's speech, we're joined now by NPR's White House correspondent, Don Gonyea. And Don, no one was shocked that the president spent most of his time talking about the economy, but I'm wondering if there was anything in the speech that that did catch you off-guard. DON GONYEA: I don't think there were any big surprises. The big question going in was, would the president really do what he needed to do? Would we see - maybe the best way to put it is, would we see both President Obamas? Would we see the one who has been delivering very tough, very blunt, very direct talk about the crisis in the economy, too tough, some people say? Or would we see the one that we saw from the campaign who lifted people up with his soaring rhetoric? Would we see that message of hope, for lack of a better word, come through? DON GONYEA: And I think we really did see a president balancing both of those things, starting with the tougher stuff, providing the conviction that the U.S. will pull through this and has the resources to do it. ALEX COHEN, host: About halfway into the address, the president said dropping out of high school isn't just quitting on yourself but quitting on your country. It was surprising to me that in the midst of all these money talk comes this stay-in-school message. DON GONYEA: I found that a really interesting passage in that speech last night. He talked a good deal about education and the need to train people and to make sure that schools are teaching kids what they need to learn. There has been a lot of talk about the next generation, about young people, when we look at the size of the deficit and debt that will be handed down to them. DON GONYEA: But in that passage last night, the president seemed to be vesting young people in this fight as well. Basically he was saying, you know, you may be a kid, but you're needed, and you have something to work for, and we're going to need you to step up. And I found it a very interesting pitch. I'd never quite heard a president do that before. ALEX COHEN, host: Don, it hasn't even been 24 hours but already the speech has been broken down and analyzed every which way. The New York Times Web site breaks down how many times he used the word "economy" compared to past presidential speeches. NPR just launched something called The Obama Tracker that charts every action the president takes. Do you have any sense that all these new forms of online analysis influences what the president says? DON GONYEA: I don't know if it influences what he says, but they're doing this kind of analysis themselves. Everything is really kind of run through these kinds of tests. The trick is not to seem as though everything has been tested to death. And I think he managed to strike a conversational tone last night. ALEX COHEN, host: NPR's White House correspondent Don Gonyea. Thanks so much, Don. DON GONYEA: It's my pleasure.

President Obama addressed a joint session of Congress Tuesday night in a speech heralding the resilience of the American people in times of trouble. How did it go over?

Präsident Obama sprach am Dienstagabend vor einer gemeinsamen Sitzung des Kongresses in einer Rede, in der er die Widerstandsfähigkeit des amerikanischen Volkes in schwierigen Zeiten pries. Wie ist es gelaufen?

周二晚上，奥巴马总统在国会联席会议上发表讲话，宣布美国人民在困难时期的复原能力。此次讲话效果如何？

MADELEINE BRAND, host: From the studios of NPR West, this is Day to Day. I'm Madeleine Brand. Coming up, home prices plummet, what that means for President Obama's home rescue plan. MADELEINE BRAND, host: First, the president speaks to a joint session of Congress tonight. It's not officially a State of the Union speech, but it will have much of the same pomp and ceremony. The speech is at 9 p.m. Eastern. It will be televised, and so Mr. Obama's real audience will be you and I, the people watching at home. NPR's Scott Horsley's here now. He's also be monitoring the speech. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And Scott, I guess it'll be economy as the number one topic. SCOTT HORSLEY: You know, there's really no escaping that. The president said yesterday that this is not the situation he or any new president would like to inherit, but he's faced with rising unemployment, you talk about those plummeting home prices, a record number of foreclosures. So he's going to be talking about the steps he and Congress have already taken, like the $787 billion stimulus plan, the foreclosure prevention plan he unveiled last week in Arizona. SCOTT HORSLEY: He's also expected to provide some more detail about his administration's efforts to shore up the banking system. That's something that the secretary of Treasury rolled out a couple of weeks ago and has been criticized for not having enough details. So we may learn more about that and about efforts to strengthen and update financial regulations so we don't find ourselves in a situation like this again. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And then, he's also talking about reducing the deficit. SCOTT HORSLEY: Yes. Even as the federal government is spending massive amounts of money in the short run to try to jumpstart the economy, Mr. Obama has promised over the course of his first term to cut the deficit in half. Now, that would still be, you know, more than half a trillion dollars, so it would still be a big deficit. But this was the topic of a summit meeting at the White House yesterday. SCOTT HORSLEY: They focused not only about some things like cutting spending on troops in Iraq or raising taxes on the wealthy, which is going to be part of the president's budget, but also long-term challenges like getting a grip on health-care cost. And this was a bipartisan meeting. Senator John McCain was there, Congressman Eric Cantor, who's been one loudest voice of opposition to the president. And when you talk about cutting the deficit, these are things that Republicans can applaud, so there should be at least something for the other side of the aisle to cheer about tonight. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Several polls that are out today show that the president has really broad approval, very strong approval ratings on behalf of the American public. I'm wondering, though, what are they going to be looking for from the president tonight, and could what he says tonight - could it really affect the way the public views him and the goodwill that the public has for him? SCOTT HORSLEY: Well, this has been something of a question in recent days, you know, about the tone that the president sets. He has been pretty somber in most of his pronouncements on the economy, going back to his inaugural speech, and his spokesman, Robert Gibbs, says the president feels it's very important to be honest with the American people about the economic challenges we face, but there's also an argument that he needs to serve as a cheerleader in chief. SCOTT HORSLEY: We learned just today that consumer confidence has fallen to an all-time low, and so there's some sense that the president has a responsibility to buck people up a little bit, and we expect him to end the speech with a confident note. No sugarcoating exactly, but a little sweet confidence to help some of the tough medicine go down. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And he'll also be talking about other issues besides the economy? SCOTT HORSLEY: A little bit. We expect him to talk about Afghanistan. Last week, he ordered more U.S. troops there to help combat the resurgent Taliban. He'll also talk about how there's no purely military solution in Afghanistan. There's also a need for diplomacy and development. But the big concern for his listeners tonight is going to be economics, and so we expect that's where the president's main focus will be. MADELEINE BRAND, host: NPR's Scott Horsley covering the president, watching his speech tonight before Congress. That speech broadcast at 9 p.m. Eastern. Scott, thank you. SCOTT HORSLEY: Good to be with you, Madeleine. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Also, NPR's political junkie Ken Rudin will be blogging tonight's speech. You can get analysis from him and other NPR reporters at npr.org, where you'll also be able to hear live coverage of this address.

President Obama addresses a joint session of Congress Tuesday night in a nationally televised speech. What can we expect from the address?

Präsident Obama spricht am Dienstagabend in einer landesweit im Fernsehen übertragenen Rede vor einer gemeinsamen Sitzung des Kongresses. Was können wir von der Adresse erwarten?

奥巴马总统星期二晚间在国会两院联席会议上发表全国电视讲话。从这个地址我们能期待什么？

IRA FLATOW, HOST: Flora Lichtman is here with our video pick. Flora, you have the next installment in our Desktop Diaries series in which you get to know scientists by asking them about their desk trinkets. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: That's right. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And who do we have today? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: It's Daniel Kahneman today. He's a Nobel Prize-winning psychologist and the author of "Thinking Fast and Slow," which you may have seen on many of the best book lists of the year, The Economist's lists and The New York Times' book reviews list. And Dr. Kahneman let us stop by his New York City apartment for the Desktop Diary. But here's the thing, Ira. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: DR. DANIEL KAHNEMAN: No. No, desk. I haven't used a desk for many years. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: And that's not all. KAHNEMAN: I have always emphasized the willingness to discard. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: So it's challenging. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Oh, gee, what a challenge, a Desktop Diary with no desk. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: No desk. No trinkets. IRA FLATOW, HOST: No trinkets. No desk. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Very clean this workspace. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Does he at least have a medal to go with the Nobel Prize? They gave him a medal? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Well, it's funny you should ask that. That was the first thing I wanted to see. We had to sort of ask him questions, get to know each other, but all I wanted to see was what the Nobel Prize looks like. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Right. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: So eventually, we started talking about it and I asked, do you get a physical thing? I'm thinking like the Olympic... IRA FLATOW, HOST: Sure. Like put it around your neck. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: ...they put around your neck. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Sure. Right. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: And he said, oh, yeah, they do. And I can go get it for you. Let me show it you. So Dr. Kahneman walks over to the other room and the door slightly ajar. They don't really want to, you know, invade his personal space; this is home. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Right. Right. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: But it becomes clear little by little that we're not finding it. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: There are some rummaging around. IRA FLATOW, HOST: I lost the medal. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: It was amazing. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Honey, have you seen the medal? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: It was amazing. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Way back, yeah. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Yeah. It was amazing. He didn't initially find it. But his wife knew where it was and so... IRA FLATOW, HOST: This is SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR with a great story from Flora Lichtman about looking for a Nobel Prize medal. And you say he did, eventually, find? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: It was so charming, though. You know, he was like, I haven't taken it out in that long, which makes sense, although I feel like I'd be sleeping with it, like, under my pillow or something, making myself feel better every day by looking at it. But anyway, we eventually saw it, and it's much bigger than an Olympic medal. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: It seemed to me it was quite large. And they also give you this other nice stuff, so he had a sort of dossier of pictures and... IRA FLATOW, HOST: Give you chocolate coins, too. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Really? I didn't know - those maybe were gone by now. It was 2002 when Dr. Kahneman got this award. But just to give you a sense of what Dr. Kahneman has done. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Right. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: So he's a psychologist and he's done a lot of observational research over the course of his career on how people make decisions. But he got the Nobel Prize for economic sciences. And the reason is because before his work, one of the sort of basic tenants of economics and, you know, economists can - will know this story better than I do. But the basic premise is that people operated in their self-interest and that there are - people can be rational decision makers, you know, except maybe when passion or love or fear is involved. And what Dr. Kahneman and his colleague, Amos Tversky, showed was that people make irrational decisions all the time. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Really? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: That there - yeah, I know. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Well, look, it hasn't been show before. IRA FLATOW, HOST: He got the prize for that. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: They showed it through observation. So I wanted you to give you an example of one of the demonstrations that they did. This is Dr. Kahneman's favorite, he said. KAHNEMAN: My personal favorite is what I've called now regressive prediction, that is that people make absurdly, extreme predictions on the basis of very weak evidence. If I tell you about this graduating senior and I call her Julie that she read at age four. And I ask you what's a GPA? You have an answer. An answer comes to mind. I mean, you know, that's ridiculous. And somehow, it's a very narrow range of answers, and it's that sort of answer that comes to everybody's minds. So I think that's my favorite. I find it mostly - a lot of it - I find amusing and sort of interesting being an observer. But I don't ask myself a lot until it mean about mankind or humankind or whatever. I don't. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: So you get this sense that... IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: ...you know, we - you shouldn't have an answer to something like that. These - the fact that Julie could read at age four shouldn't suggest to you a GPA 20 years down or 15 years down the line. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Great point. Yeah. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Yeah. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Yeah. And it's our Video Pick of the Week. It's up there on our website at sciencefriday.com. It's Desktop Diaries, a challenge to Flora this week... IRA FLATOW, HOST: ...having no desktop and no diary. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: What a wonderful interview. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And a great... FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: What a great... IRA FLATOW, HOST: ...this great interview, little slice of life when he lived in the Upper West Side, was it? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: No. The Village. IRA FLATOW, HOST: The Village. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Yeah. It was a beautiful... IRA FLATOW, HOST: Wow. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Just for that, it might be worth looking. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: And check out all of other Desktop Diaries. We've done so many over the years. You know, Temple Grandin, Oliver Sacks, many - E.O. Wilson. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Many Desktop Diary - E.O. Wilson and they're there. And if you think - do you think you know what's on Brian Greene's desktop, for example, another spare one, right? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Exactly. I think... FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: I remember the Brian Greene shoot vividly when I got there and I said there's nothing here. We're in this (unintelligible). But other ones, we have lots of trinkets. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Lots of... FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: And they really end up being a kind of nice - they are windows to people's soul. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And we have a couple in the works, right? FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: We do. Jill Tarter. We met with who - you heard on the program last week and Tim White. So look forward to the - more coming up. IRA FLATOW, HOST: And they make up trinkets what we didn't have on the desktop this time. All right. FLORA LICHTMAN, BYLINE: Thanks, Ira. IRA FLATOW, HOST: Thank you, Flora.

Nobel Prize-winning psychologist Daniel Kahneman is the latest subject in our Desktop Diaries series, although he has no desk. Kahneman, professor emeritus at Princeton University, won the Nobel Prize in economic sciences in 2002 for his research with the late Amos Tversky on our sometimes irrational intuitions and how they affect decision-making.

Der mit dem Nobelpreis ausgezeichnete Psychologe Daniel Kahneman ist das neueste Thema in unserer Desktop Diaries-Reihe, obwohl er keinen Schreibtisch hat. Kahneman, emeritierter Professor an der Princeton University, erhielt 2002 den Nobelpreis für Wirtschaftswissenschaften für seine Forschungen mit dem verstorbenen Amos Tversky über unsere manchmal irrationalen Intuitionen und wie sie die Entscheidungsfindung beeinflussen.

诺贝尔奖得主、心理学家丹尼尔·卡尼曼是我们“桌面日记”系列的最新主题，尽管他没有办公桌。卡尼曼是普林斯顿大学荣誉退休教授，他因与已故的阿莫斯·特沃斯基共同研究了人类有时候非理性的直觉，以及它们影响决策的方式，于 2002 年获得诺贝尔经济学奖。

NEAL CONAN, HOST: Every 14 minutes, someone in this country commits suicide, and research on ways to reduce that grim statistic appears to be on a plateau. In other words, psychologists don't have much in the way of new ideas - at least, right now - except maybe for what's described as groundbreaking work on the notes that those who kill themselves sometimes leave behind. A team of researchers at the Cincinnati Children's Hospital use computers to break down the language in these messages of despair, in the hope that they can better identify those at risk. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Dr. John Pestian leads the research team. He's a pediatrician and director of computational medicine at Cincinnati Children's Hospital, and joins us now from member station WGCU in Cincinnati. [POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION: The NPR member station in Cincinnati was misidentified. It is WGUC.] And good of you to join us today on TALK OF THE NATION. JOHN PESTIAN: Oh, thank you for inviting me. And just for the record, I'm not a pediatrician. I'm a scientist there. NEAL CONAN, HOST: All right. All right. I apologize. JOHN PESTIAN: I'm a PhD. I'm not an MD. NEAL CONAN, HOST: I understand you work from a collection, though, of 1,300 suicide notes. Who made this collection, and why? JOHN PESTIAN: So myself and the folks in my lab, we collected that over about the last five or seven years. A large contributor was Dr. Edwin Shneidman, who was the father of suicide research at UCLA, and Dr. Anton Leenaars up in Canada, and we work together in collecting these data and mining them together to create what we would call, from the linguistic side, a corpus. NEAL CONAN, HOST: A body. JOHN PESTIAN: And they - I'm sorry. NEAL CONAN, HOST: A body. Yes. JOHN PESTIAN: A body, a body of language, a body of notes. And if we want to do analysis of those using natural language process and other methods, like machine - from machine learning, we need a large corpus in order to start and to teach the computers from. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Where did you get them? JOHN PESTIAN: So, Dr. Shneidman, before he passed away, he gave us a large - or a good body of it, Anton Leenaars. And then the rest came from people across the United States who now, to this day, still send notes so that they can be added into the corpus. And so over the last five, seven years, we've been able to amass about 1,300 of them. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And sometimes those of us in other fields of work think we have got depressing jobs. Reading those things and to analyze them, that's got to be sad work. JOHN PESTIAN: You know, I think it's sad if you look at it on the, you know, on the very intrinsic basis. But when you look beyond that and the opportunity in order to develop methods that will help save lives, you look beyond the sadness rather quickly. That being said, I've read all of them, and they are very sad tales, in many cases. NEAL CONAN, HOST: What - how are they similar and how are they different? JOHN PESTIAN: The most similar thing in the notes that I found in reading was the loss of hope. When hope is gone, when hopelessness emerges - and that's in most of the notes - then folks have a tendency, in order to - you know, that's what you see most often. Secondarily, what you see most often is these practical instructions. Remember to change the tires. Remember to change the oil. I drew a check, but I didn't put the money in. Please go ahead and make the deposit. So there's a lot of these practical, and that would come in second to the idea of hopelessness. Other emotions are, you know, depression, a little bit of anger, not so much hate, but just, again, the whole idea of abandonment, and I just can't go on any longer. I can't deal with this any longer. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And you are analyzing these in order to teach computers how to recognize similar kinds of phrases. JOHN PESTIAN: Yes. So, it's - in Cincinnati Children's, we see roughly about 40 suicidal kids a week come into the emergency room. And the idea is: Can we predict if they're going to come back? Of those 40, we send about 20 into the hospital, and we send 20 home for external therapy. And we want to know, are we going to be able to - or are we sending the right ones home? Are they going to come back? What's the risk that they're going to come back? So by asking me - them questions, and then comparing it to the suicide notes, we can kind of get an idea of how similar or how divergent their language is from the language of suicide. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And is this a good predictor? JOHN PESTIAN: So far. And again, we've only done one small study in the hospital. We've enrolled 30 kids in 30 core - 30 control groups as a prospective study. We've done a series of retrospective studies. So far we're about 90 to 93 percent accurate of predicting who is suicidal, not whether they come back. We have to develop some more statistics for that. We're just getting ready to start a four-center study that includes us and the University of Cincinnati adult hospital. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Explain to us a little more how this works. How do you get language out of them when they come into the hospital, and how do you compare it to what's been written in suicide notes? JOHN PESTIAN: Yeah. So you just sit down and you have whoever is in charge, in our case it's the social workers. We ask them a - the kids a series of questions. We ask things like, do you have hope? Do you have any secrets that you're hiding that you want to talk to us about? Do you - where does it hurt emotionally? And we listen to those responses. JOHN PESTIAN: And then at this point, because it's in development, we transcribe that. And then we use techniques that others and we have developed in order to compare one body of language in order, one kid with a larger body of language. And that falls under the whole idea of natural language processing. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Natural - and machine learning is part of this. JOHN PESTIAN: Machine learning is - would be the, you know, the top of the tree and natural language processing would be one of the methods under the machine learning. There's multiple - there's all kinds of tools in machine learning but NLP is one of them. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And how does that work? JOHN PESTIAN: So what we do is we take these notes. And we originally had a great deal of help from the survivor community. And the survivor community are the people who had someone in their family or a loved one die by suicide, because when you read the notes you have to annotate them with emotions. You have to look and say, oh, I'm really mad at my mother. Is that anger or is that hate? Someone has to read through that and annotate it and say - so we had these... NEAL CONAN, HOST: To tell the computer, who is not going to understand this, yeah. JOHN PESTIAN: Exactly. Exactly. So that annotation drives how the computer looks at it. And 160 of the survivors volunteered, and they all read the notes three times so we can get a good, what we call inter-rater reliability. And then we gave half of that to the computer and said learn from it, and then we'd keep the other half behind without the answers and ask the computer to learn - or tell us what the answer should be. JOHN PESTIAN: We did this in order to increase the quality. We did this in an NIH-sponsored international competition where we took the data and we asked linguists from all over the world to compete and see who could come up with the best methods in order to predict which emotions, what emotional categories we were looking at. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And then you did, you say, retrospective studies. In other words, you went back and entered the... JOHN PESTIAN: We took old... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Go ahead, tell me. Yeah. JOHN PESTIAN: Yeah, we took old data, and old, it wasn't - people weren't enrolled, but they were data that had been around. One example was where we had 66 notes that Shneidman had put together; 33 were from actual people who had committed and 33 where he went to a local labor union near UCLA and said if you were going to die, if you were going to commit suicide, what would you write? JOHN PESTIAN: And we took those notes and we shuffled them all up, and then we asked about 60 mental health professionals to tell us which ones were real and which ones were simulated. And mental health professionals were good as a flip of a coin, about 50 percent of the time. Now, that's a hard task, don't get me wrong. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Mm-hmm. Yeah. JOHN PESTIAN: But the machine was good about 90 percent of the time. And the reason why, we believe, is the whole idea of what we call psychological phenomenology where if you, Neal, see something, you interpret it the way you learned how to interpret it, and, I, John, see something, the same thing, I'm going to interpret the way I think it should be interpreted. Computers don't do that. People do that. Computers look at sentence structure, noun-verb patterns, things along that line. NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is going to scare people, the idea that machines are going to be diagnosing people. JOHN PESTIAN: Oh, yeah. So, we never do that. We give decision support. We help in the diagnosis. We help in providing information. The Institute of Medicine published a book not long ago, the Learning Hospital, and they basically said there's too much information for one person to be able to pull it all together, analyze it and make a diagnosis. We need better ways in order to present the information. And that's what we do. We just present it to the - in the end, the art and the value of medicine is in the human interaction. NEAL CONAN, HOST: The human interaction. So the computer might send up a red flag, but it's a human who's got to go in there and make a decision. JOHN PESTIAN: Yeah. It makes it up and say, you know, this is similar, just like if you had diabetes and you went in, your blood sugar was high. Then the computer - the lab machine, the computer would say, this is similar to other people who have diabetes. You better check on it. It's no different. In those cases, you're looking at biomarkers. With us we're looking at thought markers. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Thought markers. That's an interesting way to put it. Who came up with that expression? JOHN PESTIAN: I did. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And... JOHN PESTIAN: And the reason why is because I have hundreds of biologists around me, and I could never speak to them unless I came up with some of the terms that were... JOHN PESTIAN: That they understood. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Excuse me. I know we're talking about suicide, we're not supposed to laugh. But every profession has its argot, and so I guess you got to come up with one for yours as well. And the people you're working with, as you're now working with - you're now working with kids who are coming into the hospital and trying out this technique? JOHN PESTIAN: Yes. So then the study we're just finalizing the protocol and ready to send off to institution review boards includes kids and adults. And it's Children's - and we see over a million patients a year, but again, just 40 of those are suicidal - it'll be Children's, the University of Cincinnati psychiatric - adult psychiatric. We have a hospital in Princeton, West Virginia, an Appalachian-based hospital; and the Canadian health system. And so those would be four sites where we do this on a larger basis. NEAL CONAN, HOST: What are the ages of the kids you see? JOHN PESTIAN: We do adolescents, so we'll do anywhere between right around 11 to 18. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And is there any distinction between the language that adolescents use and the language that adults use? JOHN PESTIAN: You know, I think in the number of likes and ums in a sentence, yes. But other than that, it's pretty much the emotions are emotions. They just may say it differently. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We're talking with John Pestian, director of the Computational Medicine Center at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And let's get a caller in on this. Chet is on the line with us from Tifton, Georgia. CHET: Hi. You may have already touched on this. I came in kind of late. I'm a retired police officer. I still do training and so I've dealt with a lot of these issues. CHET: There is a photo that went viral on Facebook this week. I don't know if he's familiar with the case. It's actually two photos. The first is a San Francisco police officer talking to a young man on the Golden Gate Bridge, and he did talk him out of it. And then the second photo is - was just taken last week. That young man, eight years later, has now given him - presented him with an award. And how often do you use survivors and - are they used in training or... JOHN PESTIAN: Well, we use survivors - there was 160 of them that volunteered to help us when we were building the corpus for linguistic analysis. And they came forward when we asked for their help through the American Association of Suicidology, and all of them came forward. So we try to call on anyone who's willing to help, to be honest with you. CHET: Some of the comments made about that particular two photographs are - several people commented just from looking at the photographs. The posture of a young man when he was, you know, in that state of mind. And then as he's smiling for the camera, presenting the award. Are you familiar with the photograph I'm talking about? JOHN PESTIAN: No. I haven't seen them. CHET: It just speaks volumes. Just looking at a photo of a different state of mind, you can see it even though his back is turned in the first photo. JOHN PESTIAN: Well, I'd have to look at it. Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Chet, thanks very much for the call. Interesting. NEAL CONAN, HOST: As you move ahead, what is the application - is that same ratio - let me go back to something you said before, where the social workers and other clinicians are about - right about 50 percent of the time and the machine right about 90 - has that held up? JOHN PESTIAN: Yeah. Well, we have to test that again. That's what this larger study looks at - that accuracy, the clinician's accuracy. We also want to include acoustical patterns. How does the voice sound as it's being said and video patterns, so the idea of creating a - at least for kids, creating a virtual human that the kids can talk to in the emergency room and you can pick up their video and their voice characteristics along with their linguistics, is something that's very appealing in the long run. So, but we have to test that... NEAL CONAN, HOST: How far away are you from incorporating the audio and video aspects of it? JOHN PESTIAN: The next study incorporates the audio and video and genetics, so those are the three characteristics that are brought beyond the language. NEAL CONAN, HOST: How do you get a corpus for that? JOHN PESTIAN: In this case, it's the exact same way that we did in the first time - in the first study - we go in and talk to the kids, and adults; so there'll be roughly 500 people that enrolled in this study. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So... JOHN PESTIAN: But we'll also do the video with a camera and the audio with audio recording, and genetics are just a little toothbrush-like thing, called a buccal swab that you scrape against your cheek and then send off to be analyzed. NEAL CONAN, HOST: As you look at the promise of this, in terms of alerting people to who is more at risk than someone else, this could be a breakthrough. JOHN PESTIAN: Yes, it could. But we have a long road to go. NEAL CONAN, HOST: How long before this next study is going to be completed? JOHN PESTIAN: Hopefully we'll start enrolling in early fall and it'll last - enrollment will be about a year to 18 months, and then about a year worth of analysis before we can kind of get to that stage. So it's a couple years away. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And you can understand the impatience of people saying, wait a minute, if this is promising, why can't we use it now? JOHN PESTIAN: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We can't, though; it's not been tested enough. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Because the risks are very high. JOHN PESTIAN: Well, there's - again, we're not making diagnosis so there's never a risk with presenting the clinician more information and more data so that they can understand what's going on. But as far as a finalized test, we still have a lot of work to do. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And you need to know the reliability? JOHN PESTIAN: Mm-hmm. Reliability, validity, generalizability, all those -ilities have to be tested. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Good luck with the -ilities. JOHN PESTIAN: Thanks. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And congratulations on the marker phrase. I like that. JOHN PESTIAN: If you like it, you can use it anytime you want. NEAL CONAN, HOST: OK. Thanks very much. Appreciate it. John Pestian is a director of the Computational Medicine at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. He joined us today from our member station there in Cincinnati, WGCU. [POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION: The call letters are WGUC.] NEAL CONAN, HOST: Tomorrow, we'll have a look ahead - another one - this time with our own Robert Krulwich. Join us for that. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.

About a third of people who attempt suicide leave a note. John Pestian and others at Cincinnati Children's Hospital are merging psychology and computer analysis to see if such notes can help diagnose suicidal tendencies in the living.

Etwa ein Drittel der Menschen, die einen Selbstmordversuch unternehmen, hinterlassen einen Zettel. John Pestian und andere Mitarbeiter des Kinderkrankenhauses von Cincinnati kombinieren Psychologie und Computeranalyse, um zu sehen, ob solche Notizen helfen können, Suizidneigungen bei Lebenden zu diagnostizieren.

大约三分之一试图自杀的人会留下遗言。辛辛那提儿童医院的约翰·佩斯蒂安和其他人正在把心理学和计算机分析结合起来，看看这些笔记是否能帮助诊断活人的自杀倾向。

SCOTT SIMON, HOST: President Trump spent much of the week threatening leaders of Guatemala. And yesterday, he got what he wanted. Guatemala agreed to hold asylum-seekers from other countries in Guatemala rather than let them go on to Mexico and the U.S. NPR's Carrie Kahn was recently in Guatemala reporting on the plan. She joins us now from Mexico City. Carrie, thanks so much for being with us. CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: Sure. Of course. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: What's in this deal? CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: Well, beginning as soon as possibly next month, Guatemala's agreed to take in asylum-seekers from Honduras and El Salvador. For those Central Americans, Guatemala would be the first country that they transit on their way to the U.S., and they would have to ask for asylum there. If they got to the U.S. border and they had not requested asylum in Guatemala, U.S. officials could return them to Guatemala. Many call this a safe third country agreement, although that wording wasn't in the agreement signed yesterday. CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: So we're talking about tens of thousands of potential asylum-seekers remaining in Guatemala. And U.S. officials say this is the best way for them to be safe, requesting protection in the first country they step into, rather than risking their lives in the hands of expensive smugglers taking them all the way to the U.S. For Guatemala, looks like they've secured a deal where citizens can come legally to work in U.S. farms under an expanded guest worker program that authorities say could start as soon as next week. But the agreement is expected to face legal challenges in the U.S. and especially in Guatemala, where its high court had banned the president from signing such a deal. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Why is it an unpopular proposition in Guatemala? CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: Well, earlier this month, Guatemala's highest court had blocked the President Jimmy Morales from signing any international migration treaties. They wanted - they said that he had to have approval from Congress. Opponents of the president who say that he's increasingly using executive powers to - unlawfully - brought the case to the high court there. And I talked to some of them about the deal, and they said it's unclear even if the interior minister, who signed the agreement in the Oval Office yesterday, had the authority to do that and whether the high court's ban had been violated. CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: And civil rights groups in the U.S. are preparing seats, too, and they just say it's ridiculous to expect Guatemala to accept so many asylum-seekers, with its high murder rate, it's gang violence and its extreme poverty. And especially, Scott, when Guatemalans themselves are fleeing the country in record numbers. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Did President Trump's threat to the Guatemalan leadership and government make this deal possible? CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: It looks like it did. You know, Guatemala is very dependent on the U.S. It's its No. 1 trading partner. And Trump had threatened to slap tariffs on Guatemalan goods. He also threatened to tax remittances. And that's the money that Guatemalans working in the U.S. send back home. We're talking about more than $9 billion last year, and that would have been a big hit to poor Guatemalans dependent on that cash flow. And Trump had threatened to ban Guatemalans from traveling to the U.S. And I talked with business leaders there who are just telling their president, President Morales, just sign the deal. You know, its consequences can't be worse than any of these other sanctions. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Can Guatemala live up to this deal? CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: I just think no. If tens of thousands of Central Americans had to resettle in Guatemala, there's no way this poor country could assimilate and care for them without substantial assistance from the U.S. And I actually went to Guatemala's tiny asylum office when I was there earlier this month. The woman who runs this office - and there's only eight employees there - she was just quite blunt. I asked her right out, could you handle a rush of new applicants? And she said no. CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: And they already have a backlog of more than 400 asylum-seekers. More than half of those applicants are from last year, which cases still haven't been resolved. But yesterday, President Trump was very pleased with the agreement. All weekend, he'd been berating the Guatemalan president. But yesterday, Trump said Morales is now a friend of the U.S. instead of being an enemy. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: NPR's Carrie Kahn. Thanks so much for being with us. CARRIE KAHN, BYLINE: You're welcome.

President Trump persuaded Guatemala to agree to keep asylum-seekers from other countries rather than let them travel north. But it's unclear whether Guatemala can fulfill the deal.

Präsident Trump überredete Guatemala, Asylsuchende aus anderen Ländern fernzuhalten, anstatt sie nach Norden reisen zu lassen. Es ist jedoch unklar, ob Guatemala die Vereinbarung einhalten kann.

特朗普总统说服危地马拉同意保留其他国家的寻求庇护者，而不是让他们前往北方。但目前还不清楚危地马拉是否能履行协议。

SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Robert Mueller, the former special counsel, spent six hours on Capitol Hill this week. Analysts and pundits did what they do, kind of predictably. And now three days later, despite shouting from both sides - on air, of course, we just speak in a tone of quiet contemplation - our own Ron Elving, senior Washington editor and correspondent, joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us. RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: And before we speak of Mr. Mueller's appearance, let's note the Supreme Court handed President Trump at least a temporary victory last night. RON ELVING, BYLINE: Yes. The court said the administration could begin using military funds to build certain portions of the president's wall on what are said to be drug-smuggling corridors on the Mexican border. Now, we should note that it was one of those 5-4 decisions and also one of those decisions based not on an issue but on the standing of the parties to bring the issue to court. The court did not address the underlying issue of the president's power to shift money in the budget for a purpose Congress has expressly refused to fund. RON ELVING, BYLINE: Now, there are still live lawsuits challenging the president's right to do this, arguing he's in defiance of the congressional spending authority. Those challenges will proceed. This decision was about what may go on in the meantime while those challenges proceed. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: All right. Robert Mueller. I am not going to use the word optics even once. What did Robert Mueller say that we should keep in mind today? RON ELVING, BYLINE: He said Russia's interference in 2016 in our election was a systematic and widespread effort to disrupt and discredit American democracy. And he said the Russians are at it again, quote, "as we sit here," unquote. He said some people in the president's campaign had welcomed Russian help, and he detailed a number of ways that the president hindered, resisted and tried to undermine or delegitimize the Mueller investigation over the last two years. And he said that his report had not exonerated the president, despite what the president has said many times, and that he had been restrained from deciding whether to indict the president for a crime by a Justice Department policy that says you can't indict a sitting president. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: And yesterday a group of Democrats on the Judiciary Committee announced, quote, "we are in an impeachment investigation." Are those the right words for what's going on now? Is there growing support for actual impeachment in the House? RON ELVING, BYLINE: There is growing support. Yesterday a handful of new commitments came in, bringing the total to just over a hundred, around a hundred. That's still less, though, than half of the entire Democratic caucus. Most of the Democratic caucus is still hesitant to go there, and they know that Republicans are not going to supply any votes in the House and that they won't convict the president in the Senate. So impeaching him in the House would be the end of it. And moreover, they know that the public is not really behind impeachment at this point. RON ELVING, BYLINE: So the Judiciary Committee and others are going forward with what might be called a pre-impeachment investigation. They have subpoenas out for the underlying evidence gathered by Mueller and for other people and other documents and records, and they want to continue to build a case that could become a formal impeachment proceeding. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: And impeachment will surely be posed at the Democratic presidential debates Tuesday and Wednesday. What else are you watching for? RON ELVING, BYLINE: Health care. Of course, they're going to talk about different plans for expanding health care coverage and dealing with the costs. They're going to talk about criminal justice and the racial implications of past efforts to fight crime. And that issue's going to arise especially as people attack Joe Biden essentially for having been a moderate or centrist Democrat for much of his career. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Speaking of real issues, the GDP grew at a slower rate this quarter. There is some expectation the Fed may cut rates. The economy, according to polls, course, has been President Trump's strongest issue. Will that hold if it softens? Will it make him more vulnerable to criticism from all quarters? RON ELVING, BYLINE: We've learned now that growth was down to 2.1% in the second three months of this year. That's much slower than it had been. And we learned that growth was also weaker than previously thought in the last quarter of last year, meaning that growth for all of last year, the second year of the Trump presidency, after the tax cuts, was weaker than previously reported, About on a par with the later years of President Obama. So this will add pressure on the Federal Reserve. But whether the Fed cuts or not, we are approaching the end of a decade of economic expansion, and that winds up being, very possibly, the most important context for the election next year. SCOTT SIMON, HOST: Ron Elving, thanks so much for being with us. RON ELVING, BYLINE: Thank you, Scott.

Robert Mueller has spoken; Republicans want to move on, Democrats don't. Meanwhile, more concerns about potential Russian tampering in the 2020 election.

Robert Mueller hat gesprochen; Republikaner wollen weitermachen, die Demokraten nicht. In der Zwischenzeit wächst die Besorgnis über mögliche russische Manipulationen der Wahlen 2020.

罗伯特·米勒发表了讲话；共和党人希望向前看，民主党人不想。与此同时，更多人担心俄罗斯可能会干预2020年的大选。

SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Jerry Falwell Jr. is a close ally of President Trump and the leader of Liberty University, a conservative Christian college in Virginia. Falwell is under renewed scrutiny after reports from several news outlets raised questions about his activities, including a lengthy investigation published in Politico this past week. It pulls together multiple claims of business dealings by Liberty University which sources say directly benefited Falwell's family and friends, inappropriate comments allegedly made by Falwell to colleagues and apparent attempts to mobilize students on behalf of Falwell's own political goals. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Politico quoted one unnamed university official as saying of Liberty, quote, "we're not a school - we're a real estate hedge fund. We're not educating. We're buying real estate every year and taking students' money to do it." The piece relies heavily on anonymous sources. And we can't address all of the allegations today, but Falwell has denied several of them and told the Associated Press that he's asking the FBI to investigate what he sees as a smear campaign by former employees and board members. Liberty also released a lengthy document in which Falwell defends his business decisions and argues that they are in the best interest of the university. We reached out directly to Liberty for a statement, but a spokesman declined to comment further. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Given these allegations against Jerry Falwell Jr., we thought we'd check in with Liberty University students to discuss how the reports are being received on campus in Lynchburg, Va. We're joined today by Elizabeth Brooks and Sutton Roberts, both juniors at Liberty University. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Welcome to you both. SUTTON ROBERTS: Hey. Great to be here. ELIZABETH BROOKS: Hi. Thanks for having us. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: So I want to start by getting a sense of what the mood is like on campus in light of these recent allegations. Sutton, I'll start with you. How much do you think students are paying attention? SUTTON ROBERTS: I think that most students are at least loosely aware of the articles. But I think a lot of students really haven't read the articles, haven't really digested the information that much except from what they've heard from their peers. There are quite a few students that are really interested on one side or the other, but I think the vast majority don't really care. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Elizabeth, do you agree? ELIZABETH BROOKS: I would have to disagree. I think that there is a lot of buzz that has been generated from this article. I would echo Sutton's response in saying that while they may not know the contents of the article, they do know that something is going on. A lot of my friends from different sides of the political spectrum are caring more and more about this. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: And, Elizabeth, you organized a protest on campus this past week. Can you tell us why? ELIZABETH BROOKS: Yeah. We organized this protest in response to both articles that dropped this week. We really are protesting President Falwell's habitual behavior of - various allegations of misconduct, especially ones of sexual harassment, and the habitual abuse of his subordinates as well as students and various Christian leaders that he's attacked on Twitter as well. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: And, Sutton, were you aware of the protests? And what's your reaction to it? SUTTON ROBERTS: Yeah, I was aware. I went by and checked out and talked to a couple people there. I feel like they're just trying to be seen. They're trying to get attention. I don't think that they're really expecting to get a lot done, especially since it's kind of the Falwells' university. and I don't think that 15 or 20 protesters is really going to change the university's minds on a really successful president. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Elizabeth, do you want to respond to that? I mean, was this was this a serious effort to change something? Or was it just sort of a - to make a statement? What was the goal? ELIZABETH BROOKS: Honestly, we did do it in order to call attention to all that's going on because President Falwell has faced very little repercussions, whether in the media or, of course, on the board or anything. And I would say that I thought it was a decent turnout. You know, it just started out as me and five other friends, and it turned into - we had about 35 kids at the max of it. ELIZABETH BROOKS: You know, I would say that, you know, we're not doing this because we want to oust President Falwell, or we want him to resign or anything like this. We're really calling for an investigation to see if these allegations are true. That's really what we're after here - is the search of the truth. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Which allegations do you find most troubling? There's a lot in these reports, and I outlined some of them. ELIZABETH BROOKS: There are. Yeah. Specifically, the ones of sexual harassment in the university's office, whether he's talking about his wife and sexual manners - certainly disheartening to hear. Specifically, though, we are protesting the habitual abuse of various students and whether he refers to them as retarded - you know, a horrifying slur to hear from your president. You know, we're protesting really President Falwell's behavior. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: And just to elaborate on that a little bit, the Politico report said that Falwell had sent explicit photos of his wife to Liberty employees, and he's denied that. It also claims that he would brag to employees in graphic detail about his sex life with his wife. He didn't respond to questions from Politico about that. I want to ask you, Sutton, what you make of those allegations. SUTTON ROBERTS: I think that the alleged comments are certainly somewhat inappropriate about him describing his sex life with his wife and whatnot. But I don't believe that that's necessarily sexual harassment since he's really just talking about his wife. He's not discussing someone else. He's not making moves on a student or faculty member. He's really just talking about his wife. SUTTON ROBERTS: For the comment about the student, I don't think that that's - I think I feel like that's more taken out of context. When I read the email, he does describe a student as that, but it's really private correspondence between him and a faculty member. And the exact next sentence is him describing the student as a nice kid. He just doesn't want him to get pushed over. He's really not using it in a derogatory manner as far as I can tell. I don't have the full context of the email chain or anything. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: And Elizabeth, you alluded to what the political report describes as a culture of fear that some current and former employees have described it - a sense that Falwell is someone with a lot of unchecked power, and aides are afraid to push back or speak out. I want to ask both of you, based on what you hear and see on campus, how does that fit with what you know about Falwell and Liberty? And, Elizabeth, I'll start with you. ELIZABETH BROOKS: Yeah. As the person who organized this protest, it was absolutely terrifying the night before. You know, I'm thinking of all the legal ramifications or what could happen. Or, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm wondering if I'm going to lose my scholarships, wondering if I'm going to be able to stay on this university. It is something that a lot of my fellow peers were worried about as well taking part of it. You know, my own roommates who were totally in support of me would not join the protests because they were afraid that they would get kicked out. And this is certainly something that I've heard from a lot of various students. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: And, Sutton, what's your experience? SUTTON ROBERTS: I would have to agree and disagree with her. I think that certainly, I mean, if you're organizing a protest that's protesting the president of a private university, I'm sure that there is some worry and fear behind that. But, I mean, this is not the first protest that's been hosted on campus. There's been several others in the past. And as long as it's by students, it's always been allowed to go on unhindered as far as I'm aware. And then I'm also familiar with quite a few professors, and I don't believe that they're necessarily afraid all the time either ELIZABETH BROOKS: Yeah. I actually met with a couple of my professors before deciding to do this, and both of them strictly warned me. There's also been a number of times in the protests that LUPD has intervened and has asked people to disperse. So that's what we were really worried about. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: That's the local police department at Liberty. ELIZABETH BROOKS: Yes. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: How did your professors warn you, Elizabeth? What'd they say? ELIZABETH BROOKS: They were just saying, like, you know, you need to be careful. You need to make sure that you know the ramifications of this, both on the university and legally off-campus as well. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Now, scrutiny of Jerry Falwell Jr. and Liberty University is nothing new. There's been a lot of attention on Falwell over the past few years, in particular because of his support for President Trump. And I want to ask you both how you feel about that. SUTTON ROBERTS: I'm all for it, to be honest. I mean, I'm a supporter of the president. I'm a supporter of the - our college's president as well. I think that it's certainly within his right as a private citizen to endorse whoever he wants for president. And I think that it certainly looks good on a conservative college to have a president that also believes in conservative values. ELIZABETH BROOKS: Yeah. I would really like to echo that. This is - this whole thing that we're doing, that I'm doing - this is not about Trump. This is not about his support of it. I'd really like to make that clear because many of the people who were at the protest were supporters of Trump. I personally would agree with Sutton. I would think that President Falwell can - whoever he wants to support, that is his right. I would just err to the side of caution and say that I don't know how I feel about the university supporting him. But, you know, like I said, this isn't about Trump at all. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: I want to ask, finally, what do each of you hope will come from all of this attention and controversy and scrutiny of your university? ELIZABETH BROOKS: For me, I hope that this brings awareness to the issue. I believe that, you know, we need to call for an investigation into these allegations. I think that's something that's certainly necessary. I'd like to see President Falwell himself address it. I really want people to know, and I want people to know why I did this. It's not because I hate President Falwell. It's not because I hate Liberty University. I was born and raised in this area. This university is something that I care deeply about, and I just want it to be the best place that it can be and have its impact for Christ that it has. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: Sutton? SUTTON ROBERTS: I agree mostly with what she just said. I do think that while she may not have a personal vendetta against the president, I think that a lot of the students that did participate may have. And I think that the articles are also very one-sided and don't necessarily portray the whole thing, especially because he's a supporter of Donald Trump. SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST: That's Sutton Roberts and Elizabeth Brooks, both juniors at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va. Thank you both so much. SUTTON ROBERTS: Thank you. ELIZABETH BROOKS: Thank you guys.

NPR's Sarah McCammon speaks with two Liberty University students, Elizabeth Brooks and Sutton Roberts, about reports of inappropriate behavior involving the university's president, Jerry Falwell Jr.

Sarah McCammon von NPR spricht mit zwei Studenten der Liberty University, Elizabeth Brooks und Sutton Roberts, über Berichte über unangemessenes Verhalten des Präsidenten der Universität, Jerry Falwell Jr.

美国国家公共电台的莎拉·麦卡蒙采访了两名自由大学的学生， 伊丽莎白·布鲁克斯和萨顿·罗伯茨，对大学校长小杰瑞·法尔维尔的不当行为做了报道。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: We sometimes talk about shows that are described as television events. It's usually hype - this one isn't. It's a 10-part dramatic series on HBO called "Our Boys" based on events in the summer of 2014, when three Jewish teenagers were kidnapped and eventually found murdered by Hamas militants. Two days after their bodies were found, a Palestinian teenager from East Jerusalem was found dead, his body burned in what we now know was a revenge killing. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: The murders led to yet more violence, resulting in a weeks-long conflict that left many more dead and was felt on a global scale. This series, which was filmed in Israel, follows the investigation into the death of the Palestinian boy, Mohammed Abu Khdeir. But it aims for both sweep and intimacy, capturing the emotions of people on all sides of the story but especially the families who have to live with the consequences after the rest of the world has moved on. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: The series is now in the middle of the 10-episode run, so we thought this would be a good time to check in with two of the show's creators. Joseph Cedar is the director of many acclaimed films, including Beaufort, which was nominated for an Academy Award in the best foreign language film category. He's with us now from our studios in New York. Mr. Cedar, welcome. JOSEPH CEDAR: Thank you. Hi. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Tawfik Abu Wael is the director of the movie "Thirst" which won the Critics Award at the Cannes International Film Festival. He is with us now from Tel Aviv. Mr. Abu-Wael, welcome to you as well. TAWFIK ABU WAEL: How are you? Nice to talk to you. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So, Mr. Cedar, I'm going to start with you. How did you decide to tell this story? I am particularly curious about how you decided to locate the story in the investigation of the death of the Palestinian boy. JOSEPH CEDAR: OK. So I should say that there is a third partner to the creators. His name is Hagai Levi, and he invited me to work on this show. The first mandate we had from HBO was to deal with the summer of 2014, which as you described in your intro was extremely dramatic and violent and tragic. There were a few different stories that we looked into. And after a relatively long period of research, we found out as Israelis that we were really interested in the Abu Khdeir murder because it just shocked us and was hard for us to understand. This is before we had a Palestinian partner. This is before Tawfik came on. So we were drawn to this story because we wanted to understand how this murder came about and why the Israeli society had such a hard time accepting that it came out from within us. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: And, Mr. Abu Wael, Tawfik, why did you decide to sign on? TAWFIK ABU WAEL: You know, as a Palestinian director living in Israel, when I have calls from Israeli creators or directors, it have something to do with Arabs and I usually say no. And this time, Joseph Cedar called me. And I like his work, so I found myself travelling with him and Hagai Levi to meet the father and the mother of Mohammed. It was a tense meeting because it was hard for them to accept the idea that Israelis are going to tell their story. And they suddenly went they understood that I'm going to tell their story, I'm the Palestinian storyteller, they looked at me like they are giving me the most important thing in their life. And it was a moment I just understood that somebody decided for me before I even thought about that. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: You know, it's gotten a tremendous reaction. Some critics are absolutely raving about it, calling it a must-watch. And the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu - who, it has to be said, is running for reelection - has called for a boycott of Channel 12. He's called the series anti-Semitic. Did you anticipate this reaction or as artists did you just try to not think about it? TAWFIK ABU WAEL: We knew that it's not a show that's going to satisfy Israelis or Palestinians in general. But I think it's a good thing because when you create something, it's not just to satisfy people. Sometimes it's to make them angry, to make them think and to test themselves, to look at the mirror. So I think this is what the show is doing. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Mr. Cedar, Joseph, what about you? JOSEPH CEDAR: I do feel a need to just comment on the way our prime minister used the words anti-Semitism when there is actual anti-semitism in the world, using the term against storytellers who are deeply rooted in their culture and religion is upsetting. And it's consistent with Netanyahu's cynicism on other issues. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Well, in a way, it tracks with one of the central questions that the series is asking, which is, whose job is it to think of the public good? You know, whose job is it to tell the truth? And is the truth paramount? I mean, this is sort of the dilemma embodied in the main character, Simon (ph). He's a fictional character. I mean, he's a composite of the investigators into Mohammed's death, and he's struggling with this. JOSEPH CEDAR: Yeah. So Simon is a operative in the Jewish division of the Shabak. What makes his story dramatically interesting is that at a certain point he realizes that the murderers of Mohammed Abu Khdeir are extremely close to him personally. There's even a family connection. And he's forced to use his personal knowledge and these family connections in order to collect evidence and ultimately use it against them. So, of course, by his close circle, he's called a traitor. And what he's doing is seen as a betrayal. JOSEPH CEDAR: This allowed us to deal with this sentiment of someone who feels that he's doing something necessary. He's following his own conscience and doing what he sees as the moral role that he's responsible for And at the same time disappointing and sometimes hurting people around him. So in an interesting way, Simon's character is a proxy for us. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: I was going to ask you that. In a way, isn't he a stand-in for you and for other artists and journalists, frankly, who were trying to tell the truth of a situation in which a lot of people don't like the truth. They like - they don't really care what's true, they like what their side wants to hear. JOSEPH CEDAR: Right. So yes. And I think part of what we end up with is ambiguous. There is no truth. There's just a sincerity that Simon brings to his job and an effort to do the right thing. As he looks into other options, every incident puts him in a situation that forces him to look at it closely and come up with his own personal moral decision. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: What are you hoping that Israeli audiences will take from it? And what are you hoping that international audiences will take from it? JOSEPH CEDAR: Having an Israeli Jewish audience identify with the grief of the other side is, I think, really a tremendous achievement if it works. I think the other thing that I hope an audience can get out of this is we know superficially what this conflict is made out of. And we have this rare opportunity to give the conflict a human face that goes so much deeper and is so much more nuanced than what you see in the headlines. And I'm hoping that an audience that follows through the entire 10 episodes will have just a deeper understanding of the complexities that we're living in. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: You know, I'm still dying to know that if you had known all that you were going to confront in making this if you would still have done it. TAWFIK ABU WAEL: For me yes because it's, you know, I felt it's a destiny to make this show. I can't believe we succeed to make it. It's like kind of miracle in this situation we're living in, this hateness (ph) and this gap between people to create such a very hard story, you know, dealing deeply in the roots of the conflict. And I think we - three of us, you know, would make it again - not right now but... MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: What about you, Joseph? I know, after that, what are you going to say? But honestly, if you had known... JOSEPH CEDAR: The answer is absolutely not. The reason this show exists is because of an accident. We went into this thinking, this sounds nice. HBO is offering us to tell a story about our hometown with the HBO budget. But after the fact, knowing what this entailed, it was incredibly difficult, depressing, relentless. No one goes to film school or decides to be a filmmaker thinking that one day he'll be putting on screen characters who burn a young man alive. And this is something I found myself doing on set, getting into the smallest details of how that happens. I wouldn't do it again. And while I was doing it, I was aware that this is something that happened. I'm treating it with the utmost seriousness. But it's not a place where I want to stay. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That was Joseph Cedar and Tawfik Abu Wael. They are the creators of "Our Boys." It's currently airing on HBO. Thank you both so much for speaking with us. TAWFIK ABU WAEL: Thank you very much. JOSEPH CEDAR: Thank you.

NPR's Michel Martin speaks to two of the creators of the new series Our Boys, Joseph Cedar and Tawfik Abu Wael.

Michel Martin von NPR spricht mit zwei der Schöpfer der neuen Serie Our Boys, Joseph Cedar und Tawfik Abu Wael.

NPR新闻的米歇尔·马丁采访了新电视剧《我们的男孩》的两位主创，约瑟夫·塞达和陶菲克·阿布·瓦尔。

AILSA CHANG, HOST: Now to Afghanistan on this anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. NPR's Tom Bowman is travelling around the country with a top American officer talking with soldiers and Marines about loss and remembrance and an ongoing military mission that is entering its 18th year. JASON WEBSTER: Can you hear me back there? All right, would you join me in prayer, please? TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Chaplain Jason Webster offers a prayer just after dawn at Kandahar Airfield. There's more than 150 runners taking part in a benefit for Tunnel to Towers, a nonprofit aiding the families of 9/11 first responders and those who died in the ongoing wars. JASON WEBSTER: First, I acknowledge the pain and suffering of so many over the past 18 years. From the loss of life on 9/11 to... TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Some bow their heads. Others closed their eyes. And still others stare intently ahead. MARYANNA SWANSON: All right, on your mark. Get set. Go. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Navy nurse Maryanna Swanson is organizing this run. She's from Long Island, from a family of cops and firefighters. Both her dad and uncle helped the recovery at Ground Zero. MARYANNA SWANSON: They went down to help just clean rubble out of the pile, which was pretty gruesome from the stories I've heard. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: That all helped spur an interest in military service, she says, in an effort to help others. MARYANNA SWANSON: As a kid, I never really thought about war until, like, after 9/11. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: It's a three-mile run around this sprawling base with strong links to the September 11 attacks. Just a short drive away is Tarnak Farm, an al-Qaida training base visited by some of the 9/11 hijackers and Osama bin Laden himself. Now it's just a collection of broken concrete buildings. FRANK MCKENZIE: Everybody be seated, please. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Next door in Helmand Province, the officer overseeing the entire region, Gen. Frank McKenzie, meets Marines inside a small chapel. And his talk turns to the anniversary. FRANK MCKENZIE: Today - I don't have to remind any of you - is September the 11th. We are here because of that day. That's what brought all of us here. And for the last 17, 18 years, that's been the basis for our involvement in this country. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: The war has gone on for so long there's a new generation of fighters, many of whom have little memory of that day. CHRISTOPHER SORIA: I was in third grade. I remember my teacher turning on the television. Myself, I kind of - I didn't know what I was really watching. JORDAN ALLISON: I was in fourth grade when it happened, kind of saw pictures on the internet and things. I didn't quite understand it at first. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: That's Staff Sgt. Christopher Soria and Sgt. Jordan Allison. They sit at a picnic table at a base outside the northern city of Mazar e Sharif surrounded by parched, brown mountains. And each of them advises the Afghan army. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Another soldier here has more vivid memories of 9/11. Sgt. 1st Class Michele Rebello was a young mother that day, watching on TV as the planes hit the World Trade Center and realizing things would never be the same. Today she'll continue training the Afghans with logistics and wonders if any of them will stop and think about it much. MICHELLE REBELLO: Not sure if they'll really identify that the significance of the day and the meaning. I won't bring it up at all, but it will be a significant event for me. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: She and many soldiers here have followed the news about possible troop cuts and the back-and-forth with Taliban talks and the decision to cancel a Taliban visit to Camp David shortly before September 11. MICHELLE REBELLO: I believe that our leaders will do what they think is right. I'm definitely glad that they rethought having personnel come to Camp David on that day. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: How come? MICHELLE REBELLO: I think it was a smart move. Yeah, I think the date should have just been maybe different. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: For Sgt. Soria, who was in third grade back in 2001, he knows that many Americans question the Afghanistan mission, wonder why it's still going on after 18 years. I asked him if he'll come back here again. CHRISTOPHER SORIA: I think there's still a lot more that needs to be accomplished in this country. So I would like to say no, that I won't be coming back to this country, but I foresee having to come back to this country again. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Coming back to prevent threats against the United States again, he says, attacks like those that occurred on September 11. TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Tom Bowman, NPR News, Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan.

Soldiers and marines reflect on loss and remembrance. They're on the ground in Afghanistan, where the war has been going on for nearly as long.

Soldaten und Marinesoldaten denken über Verlust und Erinnerung nach. Sie sind vor Ort in Afghanistan, wo der Krieg fast genauso lange dauert.

士兵和海军陆战队反思损失和缅怀死者。他们此刻在阿富汗战场，那里的战争已经持续了几乎同样长的时间。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: As Micheline mentioned, there are likely to be a lot more job cuts in the auto industry. In Detroit, workers are anxious. NPR's Celeste Headlee reports. CELESTE HEADLEE: If auto executives can't convince Congress they have viable business plans in place, the Treasury Department could allow the Big Three to declare bankruptcy. But Ford worker Robin Gara(ph) says, that would be disastrous. Mr. ROBIN GARA (Employee, Ford Motor Company): I think we'd be in a recession like the '30s. CELESTE HEADLEE: Gara puts together door panels at the Selene assembly plant. It's a bitterly cold day, and the workers here are hunched into their coats, trotting to their cars after a long shift. Carpenter Jim Nearman(ph) shakes his head when I ask him if he thinks the auto industry will bounce back. Mr. JIM NEARMAN (Carpenter): If they can stop the fear in the people from holding back from buying, if they could just get over that, maybe this year, and then we could start buying again. CELESTE HEADLEE: Nearman's shoulders slump when he crumples into his truck seat. It's been busy here because the automaker has been closing other facilities and streamlining their operations. This plant is responsible for more production now. And though the company's been shifting workers here as they close other plants, there's still too much to do, Nearman says. Mr. JIM NEARMAN (Carpenter): Ah, man, yeah, lately it's like, (Laughing) I'm tired man. Twelve hours a day for a while and its good money right now, I just thought I'd better work it before, you know, if we do get laid off right, now, OK, you know. CELESTE HEADLEE: And that's a real concern. Robin Gara will be laid-off soon. He's a temp worker who'll lose his job when 1,800 Ford employees return to the plant. Mr. ROBIN GARA (Employee, Ford Motor Company): I'll be on the callback list and hopefully - I have two years seniority - hopefully, I'll be called back within two years. I expect to. CELESTE HEADLEE: And Gara says, he's sure the auto executives will be able to plead their case in Congress next week and get their loans extended. Mr. ROBIN GARA (Employee, Ford Motor Company): They really don't have choice. CELESTE HEADLEE: But although the workers here acknowledge the trouble their industry is going through, most of them seem surprisingly hopeful about the future. Ms. KIM ATCHISON: Well, I think Obama will help us out, and I think that he'll get everything back on track. I really have faith in him. I think he'll get it turned back around. CELESTE HEADLEE: Kim Atchison(ph) supervises the assembly of the popular F-150 truck. Gara also says he thinks Obama will step in and keep the auto industry alive. He says he hopes the Republicans don't stand in the way. Mr. ROBIN GARA (Employee, Ford Motor Company): We have a little saying in the plant about the Republicans - blue-collar worker that votes for Republicans is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. That's basically what it is. They're for the rich man. They're not for the working man, they never have been. CELESTE HEADLEE: Gara thinks the auto industry is going to get back on its feet though, once the recession is over. Atchison says she's a little worried about GM and Chrysler, but she thinks Ford has made the changes it needs to make and has a strong plan to weather the economic storm. Ms. KIM ATCHISON: I really think Ford's going to make it. If any of them make it, I think Ford will make it. CELESTE HEADLEE: Jim Nearman echoes that sentiment. Mr. JIM NEARMAN (Carpenter): Mostly, it's the Ford suppliers that we're worried about because if GM goes under here, we got to hold on to our suppliers to keep us going. CELESTE HEADLEE: Nearman is hoping Congress votes to extend the loans because he doesn't think Ford can survive if GM goes down. But he says he can't bear to read the paper or watch the news. Mr. JIM NEARMAN (Carpenter): It's depressing, I'll tell you. The news is a lot of bad news. Yeah, I don't watch it too much. No. Yeah, it's too discouraging lately here. CELESTE HEADLEE: Celeste Headlee, NPR News, Detroit. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Stay with us on Day to Day from NPR news.

Executives from the Big Three automakers will return to Capitol Hill next week to explain to lawmakers why Congress should continue lending the companies money. If the automakers can't prove their business plans are solid, they may have to declare bankruptcy.

Führungskräfte der drei großen Automobilhersteller werden nächste Woche auf den Capitol Hill zurückkehren, um den Gesetzgebern zu erklären, warum der Kongress den Unternehmen weiterhin Geld leihen sollte. Wenn die Autohersteller nicht beweisen können, dass ihre Geschäftspläne solide sind, müssen sie möglicherweise Konkurs anmelden.

三大汽车制造商的高管将于下周返回国会山，向议员们解释为何国会应当继续向他们提供贷款。如果汽车制造商无法证明自己商业计划的可靠性，他们可能要被迫宣布破产。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: It's been a week now since Hurricane Dorian devastated the Abaco Islands in the Bahamas. The government is now saying the official death toll is at least 43. But sadly, that number is probably going to keep going up. The main commercial hub for the islands is Marsh Harbour. And the infrastructure there is so badly damaged, the government's trying to move residents off the islands. And it's not clear when they'll come back, if ever. NPR's Jason Beaubien is in Marsh Harbour. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: A yellow bulldozer clears part of a road in Marsh Harbour, shoving piles of concrete, aluminum siding and other hurricane debris off the asphalt. Along with a few Bahamian military transport trucks, it's one of the only large government vehicles moving about town. Utility poles are snapped throughout the middle and northern part of the island. Abaco's only power plant remains offline. There's no running water in Marsh Harbour. And there's a stench of death. An urban search-and-rescue team from Gainesville, Fla., along with Bahamian police officers, are checking collapsed buildings in a commercial district near the harbor. JOHN CICIO: And we're just going through the heavily damaged areas. And we're helping them search and clear the buildings to make sure there's no injuries or fatalities and, if there is, assisting them with getting those out of there. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: John Cicio with the Gainesville Fire Rescue Department says the main way to tell if bodies are buried in the rubble is by smell. JOHN CICIO: At this point in the game, this kind of - this late in the game, there's a definite odor that would tip you off to it. And it is difficult to tell, sometimes, from animals vs. humans sometimes. Maybe some bad food going on. So we had to get a little more in-depth in some situations to confirm it. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: If they don't find anyone, they mark the building with orange spray paint and move on to the next one. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: As U.S. military helicopters and other aircraft shuttle in supplies, the former head of the Abaco Chamber of Commerce says almost every business in Marsh Harbour is shut down. VADO BOOTLE, SR: Zero commerce. Zero commerce at this time. There's nothing. You can't buy water. You can have as much money as you want. You can't buy anything here. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: Vado Bootle, Sr. describes himself as a glass-half-full kind of guy. Everything's wiped out. So it's a chance to rebuild everything back, he says. VADO BOOTLE, SR: This island is one of the main economic powers for this country. So in my personal opinion, I don't see the way the government could not rebuild this. It has to be done. It's not going to happen overnight. But it has to be done. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: But in the meantime, what do you do with the islands' 17,000 residents. What do they eat? Where do they sleep? How do they get water? How do they survive? For the people currently homeless in Marsh Harbour, the government's answer is to send them to shelters in Nassau on the island of New Providence. More than a thousand are already sleeping in gyms and churches in the capital. Hundreds, potentially thousands, of others are staying with friends and relatives. And the government is even appealing to private individuals to take in more of the evacuees who continue to be ferried off of Abaco. So many people have left that much of Marsh Harbour feels eerily calm and empty. Christine Lightbourne with the Bahamas Red Cross, however, says some people are still afraid or unwilling to leave. CHRISTINE LIGHTBOURNE: You know, unfortunately, some of them are never going to want to leave. And that's a reality that we've faced. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: Lightbourne is managing a shelter in Marsh Harbour. She rode out Dorian, along with nearly 500 other people, in a primary school which was turned into a hurricane shelter before the storm. As soon as boats and planes started departing for the capital, Lightbourne and her staff encouraged the people in the shelter to leave the island. On Saturday night, she was down to 248 people staying in the school. She hopes to have fewer than 70 residents by today. She says people here are used to hurricanes. And many feel that they'll bounce back, like they have after every other storm in the past. But she says the devastation from Dorian is different. And it could be a long time before even basic infrastructure is restored here. CHRISTINE LIGHTBOURNE: It's going to be a long process. We have to face the reality of what devastated us. And this is, for real, the worst we've ever had in the Bahamas that I've lived through. JASON BEAUBIEN, BYLINE: She says as soon as this shelter is empty, she's going to catch the next flight out, too. Jason Beaubien, NPR News, Marsh Harbour, the Bahamas.

It's been a week since Hurricane Dorian hit the northern Bahamas. The government is encouraging people from Abaco Islands, the hardest hit island, to seek shelter elsewhere in the country.

Es ist eine Woche her, dass Hurrikan Dorian den Norden der Bahamas heimgesucht hat. Die Regierung ermutigt die Menschen auf den Abaco-Inseln, der am stärksten betroffenen Insel, anderswo im Land Schutz zu suchen.

飓风多里安袭击巴哈马北部已过一周。政府鼓励受灾最严重的阿巴科群岛的人们到国内其他地方寻求庇护。

NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. One hospital outside Dallas charges a little over 14 grand for pneumonia treatment. Another hospital a few miles down the same street charges more than twice as much, over $38,000. Why? Why has it taken so long for those prices to be made public? And now that they're out, how is that going to change health care? NEAL CONAN, HOST: Today the Obama administration published the prices hospitals charge for the 100 most common procedures, and the discrepancies are staggering. Here in Washington, one hospital charges $69,000 for a joint replacement. You can pay less than half of that just across town. NEAL CONAN, HOST: These days we know a lot more about hospitals than we used to in terms of outcome and infection rates, for example. Now we know the prices. How is all this information going to change your decisions? Will you start to shop? 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our website. That's at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Later in the program, freshly minted Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Randy Newman joins us, and we have an email challenge for you today. Nominate your favorite Randy Newman song. You can tell us why. We'll play the top vote-getter at the end of the show. NEAL CONAN, HOST: But first Jordan Rau joins us here in Studio 42, senior correspondent for Kaiser Health News. Good of you to be with us today. JORDAN RAU: Glad to be here. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And we knew that different hospitals in the same city would charge different prices for the same procedures. Were you surprised, though, to find out how big those differences were? JORDAN RAU: Not really. We've seen this in some states, have published this for a while, and a lot of research has been done on this. What's significant about it is this is the first time that the charges that hospitals list are all out there to be played around with and looked at for every hospital. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And I guess we also knew that different hospitals in different parts of the country would have different price rates, but the same hospital a few blocks away can charge vastly different prices. JORDAN RAU: Yeah, and that's been one of the variants between different places is one of the many, many bizarro things in the world of the hospital and health care in general. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Because there was no transparency, I guess hospitals didn't - saw no reason to make these things public, to publicize the fact that you can get it cheaper over here. JORDAN RAU: Hospitals have been incredibly secretive about their prices, as anyone who's ever tried to ever get a quote or an estimate has done. And in fact, now these are actually somewhat fictitious prices in that they are called chargemasters, and this is almost a list price of what a hospital says a knee replacement or procedure is. That's very different from what an insured customer will pay. JORDAN RAU: But hospitals have kept these close to the vest, and they've kept their private insured rates that they pay extremely confidential. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So there is a difference between what the hospital will pay Medicare because Medicare sets that rate, and what they will pay if you have private health insurance. JORDAN RAU: That's right. Medicare sets their own rate, and it's almost always the lowest, and then at the very top end, there's the chargemaster rate. And if you've ever gotten a bill from your insurer, an explanation of benefits, it'll say, you know, you went into the hospital, and the hospital is billing you $150,000 for your toenail to be replaced. JORDAN RAU: And we are going to pay, you know, $3,000 for that, and you owe 20 percent of that. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And do they normally collect it? JORDAN RAU: The hospitals for an insured patient never collect the actual charge rate, the numbers that are out here. Now if you're uninsured, and there are a lot of people, 49 million, roughly, in the country, sometimes those people are stuck with the bill or something close to that. And in that case people have been known over the last couple decades to go into bankruptcy because of these incredible inflated rates. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And so there are different rates, and if you're with a big insurer, they negotiate discounts. They're not going to pay that top rate, either. JORDAN RAU: That's right. They will every year come in, and they'll negotiate their own rates, and they almost have no relation whatsoever to what this listed charge rate is. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So, in a sense the customer, the patient, most of them don't pay the price. JORDAN RAU: That's right because people who are on public assistance - Medicare and Medicaid - they don't pay these prices. The insured population, that's over half of the country, they don't pay these prices. And then even among the uninsured, a lot of the people get a discounted rate, charity care if they don't have the money or they work out their own level, or they just don't end up paying anything, and the hospital eats the cost. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And that's another issue for another day, and that's one of the reasons they're trying to get everybody signed up for health insurance. But anyway, as we look at that fact, that gives no incentive for the hospital to do anything but put the rates sky high. JORDAN RAU: Yeah, I mean, these are basically high rates that give the hospitals a little bit of leverage when they come in and negotiate with the insurers. And so the insurer comes in and, you know, obviously wants to pay less, and the hospital says whoa, you know, we - our original offer is, you know, $150 billion for this or - well that's a bit high, but, you know, $100,000. JORDAN RAU: And then they sort of go back and forth. And these are really artifacts of an older time when hospitals just actually kept what was called a chargemaster and a list of prices, and that was before, you know, the way that prices were negotiated by their Medicare or by private insurers came to be. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And is there any correlation between high prices and good quality of treatment? JORDAN RAU: That's a great question, and the research is really still out there about that. I've seen studies that go either way. But what is definitely clear is that the difference in quality from one institution to another is not nearly as great as the difference in price. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Let's bring another voice into the conversation. Joining us now is Dr. Renee Hsia, she's an assistant professor at the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine, also an emergency attending physician at San Francisco General, and joins us via Skype from her home in San Francisco. Thank you very much for being here with us, Doctor. RENEE HSIA: Hi, Neal. Thanks for having me on. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, again, why is it that there are, for example here in Washington I get a join replacement for $69,000 at one hospital and less than half of that across town. Why are these numbers so wildly different? RENEE HSIA: Yeah, for those of us who study this issue of price variation, unfortunately it's not surprising to see this type of variation. And I think something that consumers are often surprised to find out is that there is no regulation of health care prices or hospital charges. So hospitals can actually charge whatever they want for their care based on what they think the costs are or what their quality is, and there's no regulation at all. RENEE HSIA: So what we see is the effect of basically lack of a system. NEAL CONAN, HOST: How do hospitals figure out how much to charge? I mean, yeah, they have to pay the surgeon, there's so much time in the oper - how do they come up with these amounts? RENEE HSIA: So actually if you look at how they've come up with these prices before, before hospitals were never required to actually know what their costs were. So if you look at, for example, other industries like the auto industry or any other industry, they actually usually know what their costs are. So an automaker will know what it costs to make a car, and they will use usually what's called a cost-plus system, so what does it cost plus the profit margin for, you know, different people along the chain. And that's how they come up with a price. RENEE HSIA: But hospitals and health care has never been required to have an idea of what the actual costs are. If you ask a hospital CEO what does it actually cost you to take care of a patient who has pneumonia, they actually won't know. And because health care has never been required to basically be accountable for their costs, they come up with these charges very arbitrarily, so based on what they think it should be and what other people say it should be. It's not a cost-plus system at all. NEAL CONAN, HOST: You say they're not going to know how much it's going to cost to treat a pneumonia - they've treated hundreds, thousands of pneumonia patients. They're going to have a pretty good idea. RENEE HSIA: Right, so they'll come up, for example, they'll have an itemized bill and say that you had antibiotics, you had a certain night stay. So a hospital night stay could range from $700 a night to $5,000 a night just for the bed, and that's based on what the hospital thinks that it might cost based on their bottom line, based on what they have to cover, but it's not based on what it costs, unfortunately. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So how do you expect that this data, now that there is some transparency, is going to change things? RENEE HSIA: Well, and this is where it becomes really complicated because consumers are used to seeing costs or charges related to quality. So if we look at Yelp, for example, we'll say OK, a four-dollar-sign restaurant is probably higher quality than a two-dollar-sign restaurant, and they might make that same assumption about health care, too. RENEE HSIA: And so just as Jordan said, there's not really great research out there showing that the difference in the quality is as vast as the difference in the charges. So what - while we do hope that price transparency is an initial first step, one concern is that people actually start flocking to higher-cost hospitals or higher-charge hospitals thinking that it offers better care, and that might not be the case at all. NEAL CONAN, HOST: There might also, though - might not there be different decisions about different conditions? If I have cancer, I might want to go to the very-high-priced cancer specialty hospital, Memorial Sloan Kettering in New York, someplace like that. If I'm going to have my appendix out, well, the place down the street might be just as good. RENEE HSIA: Right, and so that's where it becomes very difficult because consumers are patients when you're sick. First of all, I don't think most people are really wanting to shop for their health care in the sense that they're not on the Web trolling to see, you know, which hospital in their 10-mile radius offers the lowest-price care. RENEE HSIA: But this is - you know, when we think about consumer empowerment, this is the idea is that more transparency will allow consumers or patients to have some more say. But whether or not we're really able to do that without good quality metrics is a little tough. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And the dog is demanding attention, so... RENEE HSIA: Sorry about that. NEAL CONAN, HOST: That's quite all right. They're all hams; they want to be on the radio. NEAL CONAN, HOST: As you look ahead, as we shift from a system that rewards per procedure to a system that rewards per outcome, how is this antiquated price structure likely to change in that regard? RENEE HSIA: I think these things need to go hand in hand. I think it's a great idea that we start looking at outcomes rather than just fee for service and paying per service. And the issue of charges really need to be dealt with. This issue again isn't surprising for those of us who study it, but the fact that CMS has published it I think is a really good move because now consumers can - you can just go to the CMS and actually download the Excel file, and you might be able to find your hospital on there. RENEE HSIA: And so this provides more momentum for policymakers to start making decisions about how do we change the system to make it more rational. Right now it's completely arbitrary, and it's really not fair. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And is that - it's not going to be long before somebody correlates this data along with the other data in terms of which hospitals do better with which procedures and infection rates, that sort of thing. RENEE HSIA: Yeah, and that's the goal is that we hope that we start developing even better quality metrics because it might be that one hospital is good at cardiac surgery, but maybe they're really bad at something else. And so it doesn't mean if you're good in one area that you're good all across the board. So we hope that we're able to move the, you know, needle forward to provide better quality information to patients, too. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Dr. Hsia, thank you very much for your time today, we appreciate it. RENEE HSIA: Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Dr. Renee Hsia is an assistant professor at the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine, also an emergency attending physician at San Francisco General Hospital. She joined us by Skype, she and her dog joined us by Skype from her home in San Francisco. Jordan Rau is still with us, senior correspondent for Kaiser Health News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: When we come back from a short break, we're going to be joined by Chas Roades, a chief research officer at the Advisory Board Company, a research and tech company that works with hospitals and health systems and with doctors to improve performance about how this is going to change marketing. Stay with us. I'm Neal Conan. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan. In recent years, hospitals have begun to advertise to attract patients. Unlike most other businesses, though, they never mention price. UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: We expect the best. That means leading-edge technology, expert care and comfort. And that's exactly what we're getting. Twenty-first-century medicine has a new hometown, and it's right here in Puyallup. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Now that the Obama administration's made public what different hospitals charge for the 100 most common procedures, and because we know much more about success and infection rates, how does that change things? Give us a call, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. Jordan Rau is a senior correspondent for Kaiser Health News, joining us here in Studio 42. Also with us, Chas Roades, chief research officer at the Advisory Board Company. He works with hospitals, health systems and physicians on how to improve performance and researches trends in the health care industry, and welcome to TALK OF THE NATION. CHAS ROADES: Well, thanks for having me. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And as it stands now, how are patients choosing which hospital to go to? CHAS ROADES: Well, I think you heard it in the ad that we just listened to. So it is some combination of reputation about the level of technology that the hospital has, the level of comfort or service that the patient can expect from the hospital. But the main way that patients get to hospitals is that their doctors direct them to those hospitals. About 70 to 75 percent of all care decisions are actually made by doctors, not by patients directly. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So it may be whichever hospital the doctor has admitting privileges at. CHAS ROADES: That's right, that's right. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And so - and it some, do you think it's likely to change as we learn more about hospitals? CHAS ROADES: I do. I mean, I think that this - what CMS published today, the Time magazine article that... NEAL CONAN, HOST: The Steve Brill piece. CHAS ROADES: That Steve Brill wrote that came out a couple of weeks ago, I think all of these push us in the right direction, which is more transparency around cost and quality in health care. But I think a really important thing to bear in mind about this whole discussion is that there really are no prices, at least in the hospital part of the health care industry. CHAS ROADES: Nobody pays these prices. These prices don't reflect the thing that prices usually reflect, which is the cost and quality and value and worth of the product that's being delivered on a marketplace. We get prices from markets. These aren't prices; these are just negotiating documents that hospitals use to begin to talk to their commercial insurance companies about how much they're actually going to get paid for the care they deliver. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, in the end somebody pays the price, and it's usually the taxpayer. CHAS ROADES: That's right. And so somebody ultimately pays a price, but that price has actually very little to do with what the chargemaster, as Jordan described it, says the price ought to be. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And Jordan, as you - that's accurate. I mean, the price, unless you're one of those unfortunate uninsured, you're not going to be asked to pay these prices. JORDAN RAU: Yeah, that's right. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And so is price going to start to play a part in the future, do you think? JORDAN RAU: I think in terms of people shopping around for prices, it'll probably play a little bit around the edge. You know, if you've got some time, as Chas mentioned, to really shop around for, you know, a knee replacement or something, and, you know, you want to be that type of consumer, yeah, a bit. But I think that this is part of a broader movement, which is to really put a focus on the fact that the pricing of these products has no relation to reality because what the government is really trying to do and what insurers have been trying to do for a long time is to bring these prices down. JORDAN RAU: And this - and the public is - in general doesn't understand this about providers. They understand this about insurers, that they know that their insurance premiums are higher than they'd like. And they understand this about pharmaceuticals, and that's why those things were really vilified during the Affordable Care Act. But they don't understand that about their doctors and their hospitals. JORDAN RAU: And this is the first step, and that's what transparency is about, that is to first explain to people that you know what? There's a crazy marketplace out there. This is driving your insurance premium, and it makes no sense. CHAS ROADES: Yeah, I mean I think the real problem is that there is no marketplace in health care. So a marketplace takes supply and demand for some service, and the output of that balance between supply and demand is a price for that service. Our instinct is that we want to have health care act that way. We want health care providers, hospitals and doctors, to be trying to better and providing more value to patients. CHAS ROADES: But there is this weird third-party-payment, fee-for-service reimbursement model standing between providers and patients that's keeping that connection from happening. So you can solve that problem one of two ways. One way, which is I think a way that's favored by free marketeers and folks on the right politically, is to simply create a real market in health care, just give consumers information and direct exposure to price and let them make decisions about where to seek care. NEAL CONAN, HOST: That was sort of the Bush model. CHAS ROADES: That's right, and the challenge with doing that is that health care is so complicated to understand what are the differences really between modes of treatment and levels of quality and so forth. It's a credence good. It's very much like going to an auto mechanic and getting your car fixed. You don't really know what's going on under the hood, you're just trusting your mechanic to provide you good service. CHAS ROADES: So the other way to solve that problem is to use what the Affordable Care Act and sort of Obamacare is trying to do, which is to use managed care-type approaches, so we're going to put pressure on - we're going to link provider payment to quality and outcomes and level of cost and so forth, and hope that you can, by using those incentives, replicate the forces of the market and get folks to act as though there were a real marketplace going on in health care. NEAL CONAN, HOST: A lot of people on the line with questions. Let's go to Mary. Mary's on the line with us from Santa Clara in California. MARY: Yeah, I'm really excited about this news and about this transparency. We have such growth in health care costs, it's a hot story, but there's such ignorance of where those costs are coming from. And this feels like a moment where we're putting sticker prices on health care costs and at least revealing that, you know, there's an MSRP out there, or there's some kind of a base cost that I think consumers have been highly ignorant of. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Is anybody, Jordan Rau, going to ask - the board of a hospital, is going to say, you know, now that I realize it, you know, it is twice as much across town, why aren't we charging more, or why aren't we charging less? JORDAN RAU: Yeah, I think - well, that's exactly right. It's a double-edged sword when you put these prices out because like for instance the state of Vermont has been publishing prices for - or New Hampshire has been publishing actual prices for a while, and a couple of years, and what they found was that even though it brought some pressure on the high-end hospitals, the low-end hospitals came back and said, hey, what's the deal, you know, you, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, are paying, you know, my competitor over here twice as much as I am. JORDAN RAU: So I think that in that sense it's - it may have a good impact, and it may not. And the other thing, which you referenced and is a really important point, is that right now hospitals and medical care are like colleges, in that people tend to equate the higher prices being better. And so that's going to be a very dangerous potential implication until people feel comfortable at some sort of rating system for the quality because otherwise they might say, you know, what Cedar Sinai in Los Angeles charges much more, they're better. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Mary, thanks very much for the call. MARY: Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And as - Chas Roades, if there's no market, why are hospitals advertising? CHAS ROADES: Well, because they need to fill their beds. I mean, a hospital is fixed-cost business that has beds that in order for the economic model of a hospital to work, those beds actually need to be full or nearly full for them to cover the costs of the hospital. But I think it's important to step back and realize what actually drives pricing in health care. What drives pricing in health care is scale. CHAS ROADES: So the whole strategy of running a successful hospital system for the last 20, 25 years has been I'm going to try to get as big as I can in my marketplace so that when I go into that price negotiation, based on this chargemaster that we've been talking about, when I got into the price negotiation with the insurance company, I have enough negotiating leverage that I can actually extract a price that I can live with and actually maintain operations. CHAS ROADES: And so until we uncouple that negotiating process from what prices actually paid in health care, we're always going to have this problem of prices not reflecting the actual value of the services that are being provided. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Here's an email from Helene: Late last year I had a complete hysterectomy by da Vinci robot. Since I had already met my out-of-pocket maximum for the year on my plan due to my son's previous hospitalization, it was covered 100 percent. What I am shocked by is how little the health plan negotiated to pay. Here how the charges and payments worked out: billed amount, $81,275; plan discount, $73,634; amount paid to hospital, $7,641. Frankly, I don't think $7,600 covered the hospital's expenses for my surgery, but I was back at work in only a week, so my employer benefited. CHAS ROADES: So what's going on in that case is that the hospital didn't have enough negotiating leverage to extract the price that it needed from the payer to pay for using that expensive technology. Actually the da Vinci robot is a very interesting phenomenon in health care. CHAS ROADES: So you ask about how people choose where they're going to go and how do consumers make decisions. You see billboards on the side of every highway heading into town from the airport advertising robotic surgery and da Vinci robots and how the quality is so much better and so forth. And so you've got to have your surgery, you know, at a facility that has one of these da Vinci robots. CHAS ROADES: Well, the clinical literature on this is actually pretty mixed. It's not immediately clear that the da Vinci robot is better. But it certainly is more expensive, and it allows a hospital to drive foot traffic and thus get greater scale in a marketplace, that lets them get some of this negotiating scale that we've been talking about. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Let's go next to - this is Ruth and Ruth us with us Tucson. RUTH: Hello. Thanks so much for taking my call. I just had a question, something I've wondered about for a long time. If these costs or these charges are arbitrarily set, let's say something costs $100, but the hospital only ends up collecting $30, what happens to the other $70? Do they get to take it as a tax write-off or a business expense, and does it affect - thereby affect their tax bill at the end of the year? I'm just curious where that other money goes. Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Chas Roades? CHAS ROADES: No. So, I mean, the first thing, it's a great question. Where does the money go? It's the big question in health care. Where is all the money? Most hospitals are tax-exempt organizations. Most - something like 80 percent of hospitals in this country are charity businesses, so they don't pay taxes. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Nonprofits, yeah. CHAS ROADES: They're nonprofits. So they - when they don't collect that money, some portion of the money that they don't collect is - can be written down as charity care, so care that's provided to patients who can't afford to pay on their own. And so they get to count that charity care toward their qualification for nonprofit status on an ongoing basis, essentially. CHAS ROADES: But the vast majority of that money that is not - that's sort of the difference between what's charged and what's paid just disappears into thin air. There's - that isn't actually real money. So, again, these prices aren't real, and so they don't reflect money that's actually expected to come into the hospital at the end of a unit of service. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Jordan Rau, we do read, though, of a cat and mouse game between private insurers and hospitals where if hospitals are going to bill $100,000 and the insurer says, well, we're going to knock that down to 30 percent, they then inflate the costs of the bill again. So that 30 percent, they're going to get some more money on. JORDAN RAU: Yeah. There are a couple of ways that insurers and hospitals negotiate, and one is the discounted rate off of charges. Now, that's, I don't think, the majority of hospitals, by any means. But there are - that does sometimes happen. And so the hospitals do have an incentive to mark up their charges to some crazy amount. So they'll say, well, you know, you're getting 20 - you know, just paying 25 cents on the dollar. JORDAN RAU: But most of the time, that's not what happens. Insurers have gotten a bit more sophisticated than that, and they sort of take a look at what they're paying everyone else, and they work off of that level. And so the charge - and, again, it's an accounting fiction. It's not a real thing out there. There's no actual dollars being lost. It's just numbers on a ledger that don't ever see - that actually appear, for the most part, to be anywhere, and so it doesn't play a role. NEAL CONAN, HOST: But there are plenty of patients who say - hear from their insurers that, well, the normal amount we pay in this area is $75,000. They're charging $100,000. We're only going to pay for $75,000. JORDAN RAU: You know, that's an excellent point, and it is true. I - when I look at my explanation of benefits, they say, we saved you, you know, 35 percent. Isn't it great for us? And you're like, well, I'm still paying, you know, $5,000 for this. And, you know, to some extent, it's true. JORDAN RAU: The insurer is negotiating a better rate than you could negotiate on your own because a lot of the times when you're - you have no insurance and you go into it and negotiate on your own, you don't get any discount at all. But, again, you're taking this random number that you've - to some extent, it's fair to say it's just been plucked out of air, and you say, well, you know, here's - we got this discount. It's like, well, yeah, you did, but... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Off of what? JORDAN RAU: ...off of what, yeah. CHAS ROADES: Right. I mean, let me just - just one point on this random number. We've talked a lot about how arbitrary the chargemaster is. It is actually, on some level, based on reality. So it's based on how much it costs the hospital to run its total operation, and then they add on top of that whatever margin they need to make in order to keep things going, keep the lights on and the doors open and keep investing in new technologies and services and so forth. CHAS ROADES: So there is some connection between what things actually cost and what the chargemaster says, but the connection is now so vague as to be almost meaningless. Uninsured people actually - we went through this all - in sort of 2005, 2006, there was a very similar episode where chargemasters became public, and there was a big pushback on hospital pricing. CHAS ROADES: And as a result of that episode, most hospitals have put in place much tougher charity care guidelines so that they're giving deep, deep discounts to the uninsured who can't afford to pay, somewhere on the order of 50 to 90 percent discounts off of the chargemaster. NEAL CONAN, HOST: That's Chas Roades. Also with us, Jordan Rau. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Steve(ph) is on the line calling from Charleston. STEVE: Yes. Good afternoon. I was just wondering: If insurance companies know what the charges are that the hospitals are charging, why don't they direct patients to those hospitals that charge less? NEAL CONAN, HOST: That's a good question. Jordan Rau? JORDAN RAU: That's a fabulous question, and that's exactly what a lot of them are trying to do. It's called tiered pricing. And what they're now doing is they're giving - you sign up for an insurer, and they give you a range of choices, and they say, OK, here is our bottom level or, you know, C level of the cheapest people, and you can go there. Or you can go to the B level, which charges more, but you're going to have to pay more out of pocket. Or you can go to the A, the most expensive places, and you're going to have to pay the most. And that's where the whole system, both on the Medicare side and on the private insurance side, is trying to move. JORDAN RAU: It's called value-based, and the idea is that if you can give some sort of financial incentive to the consumers and the patients so that they can see that there's a differential on prices, they'll start driving themselves to the cheaper place. CHAS ROADES: But - and - but the only reason that that's a new phenomenon, because that seems like a pretty obvious thing for insurance companies to do... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Pretty obvious, yeah. CHAS ROADES: ...is that it's only recently that employers have been pushing back on the insurance companies about the 10 to 15 and maybe even 20 percent premium increases that they've been paying for employer-sponsored insurance over the years. CHAS ROADES: But the combination of the Affordable Care Act coming into play and just all of the pressure in the economy has now got employers pushing hard on insurers to say, hey, guys, you actually have to provide a little more value here and do more than just pass along the costs to me. And so the insurance companies have begun to pursue some of these more aggressive tiering strategies that Jordan is talking about. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And, Jordan Rau, is this a one-off phenomenon, a list of these prices for 100 most common procedures, or is this going to be a regular feature that we're going to know these prices every year? JORDAN RAU: Oh, I think they'll be putting out the prices every year. And, you know, there's a lot also movement to crack open that black hole of the negotiated prices. There's starting to be some researchers that are getting it, and there are some states that are starting to acquire that insurance and I think that that'll be the next level until you can actually go and then you can say oh, aha, this is, you know, Washington Hospital. This is the average rate that the insured people actually pay and then you've got a much better idea of what you're actually likely to face. And that brings a whole better level of reality into a very opaque marketplace. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And will transparency go to the point of saying ah, the Acme Insurance Company got a much better discount that the Smith Insurance Company? JORDAN RAU: Well, that's a great question. So it's - we need transparency not just about the providers, hospitals and doctors but also about the insurance companies and how much value they're creating on behalf of employers and individuals. I think that's a great point. There's a ton of money chasing this opportunity right now to provide more transparency in health care and we're already starting to see things like iPhone apps where the individual can sit there in the doctor's office and see what am I going to pay out of pocket if my doctor sends me to get an MRI here versus there and things like that. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Chas Roades, chief research officer at the Advisory Board Company. Thanks very much for your time today, and Jordan Rau, a senior correspondent for Kaiser Health News. Appreciate you coming in. Up next, Randy Newman will join us and there's still time for you to send us your favorite of his many songs. Send us an email: talk@npr.org. He'll join us after a short break. I'm Neal Conan. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

The federal government launched a database Wednesday that shows how much hospitals charge for the 100 most common procedures. The data reveals extreme variances in hospital billing. One hospital in Dallas, Texas charges $38,000 for treating pneumonia, while another charges over $14,000. Jordan Rau, senior correspondent, Kaiser Health News Renee Hsia, assistant professor, University of California San Francisco School of Medicine Chas Roades, chief research officer, Advisory Board Company

Die Bundesregierung hat am Mittwoch eine Datenbank veröffentlicht, die zeigt, wie viel Krankenhäuser für die 100 häufigsten Verfahren verlangen. Die Daten zeigen extreme Abweichungen bei der Krankenhausabrechnung. Ein Krankenhaus in Dallas, Texas, verlangt 38.000 US-Dollar für die Behandlung einer Lungenentzündung, während ein anderes mehr als 14.000 US-Dollar verlangt. Jordan Rau, leitender Korrespondent, Kaiser Health News Renee Hsia, Assistenzprofessorin, University of California San Francisco School of Medicine Chas Roades, Chief Research Officer, Advisory Board Company

联邦政府周三启动了一个数据库，显示医院对100种最常见的手术收费。这些数据揭示了医院账单的极端差异。德克萨斯州达拉斯的一家医院治疗肺炎收费38000美元，而另一家医院收费超过14000美元。乔丹·劳，高级记者，凯撒健康新闻夏瑞妮，加利福尼亚大学旧金山医学院助理教授，查斯路，咨询公司首席研究官

NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And now the Opinion Page. If you've been searching for a job, you probably reached out to everyone you know; neighbors, friends, family members. Everyone tells you to network. In a piece for The New York Time's Great Divide series, Nancy DiTomaso argues that the success of that strategy explains high black unemployment. Through such seemingly innocuous networking, she writes, white Americans tend to help other whites. So how did you find out about the job you have now? Was it through your network of friends and family? Give us a call. 800-989-8255. Email: talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our website. That's at npr.org, click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Nancy DiTomaso is a professor and vice dean of faculty at Rutgers Business School and joins us now from our bureau in New York. Nice to have you on the program today. NANCY DITOMASO: Thank you very much. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And I think it's important to point out, you say this is not done maliciously or maybe not even consciously. NANCY DITOMASO: Well, it's certainly is not done in a way that people are aware of the impact of it. Although when I talked to the hundreds of people that I included within my study, almost all of them - albeit two of the people I talked - found 70 percent of the jobs that they held over a lifetime from having some kind of additional help from family, from friends, through someone either telling them about a job that otherwise was not public, using influence to help them stand out from the crowd or in some cases, actually, offering them an opportunity. NANCY DITOMASO: And yet, when I asked my interviewees what most contributed to their having the kind of life that they had, almost no one talked about the help they received. Instead, they talked about how hard they had worked, how motivated they were, the education they'd received. So there was a big gap between the amount of help that they'd received and how they thought about what had happened in their lives. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And since we live in still a largely segregated society, you write, it is the white who'll be helping other whites. They're the friends and family they know, and it is minorities who will be left out. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Yes. I was surprised in the interviews that I did. Even in a diverse place like New Jersey - and it was only one of the locations where I did these interviews - that there were so few whites that I talked to who had much contact with minorities, with blacks, with immigrants, except perhaps during a brief time in college. Most of the time, they move in rather homogenous neighborhoods, attended relatively homogenous schools and even many workplaces are still quite homogenous. So, yes, when they find opportunities and they think of who might want to know about them, it's usually primarily people like them. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And this is not discrimination as such. It's favoritism. NANCY DITOMASO: Yes. Specifically in this book - my book is called "The American Non-Dilemma, which is published by Russell Sage Foundation - I specifically want to make the point that this is not just the other side of discrimination. Because discrimination is actively excluding certain people from opportunities, and that's illegal. This is actively helping to include people that are like you so that they can gain opportunities, and that is not illegal. And I think that that's a very important distinction. NEAL CONAN, HOST: It also suggests that this problem is not going to go away anytime soon. NANCY DITOMASO: No, it's certainly not. But I try to remind the readers of my book or in discussions about this that the civil rights movement was about access to jobs and freedom, right? And so there is a public interest in understanding the extent to which people find jobs primarily through this kind of networking pattern. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Yet the civil rights movement was also about allowing people to make choices and not excluding them by any legal basis. And it turns out that given the choice, people tend to group in communities and in churches and, to some degree, in jobs where there is limited contact with people of other races. NANCY DITOMASO: Well, yes, that's true. The extent to which that is a choice or through other mechanisms is, of course, a debatable issue. But the critical thing is if 70 percent of the jobs are found through these kinds of inside connections, then how can we actually talk about a job market? It would mean that those people who are not part of those networks, in fact, would have much harder time finding opportunities and finding jobs, particularly jobs that allow them to lead decent lives. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And as you look at this dilemma, this non-dilemma as you described in the title of your book, it is a situation that is self-perpetuating. NANCY DITOMASO: Yes, because it is something that goes on across generations and because my parents or my friends or colleagues helped me, that position is made to have good job skills and sufficient income to then help my children and the next generation. So in that sense, it is self-reproducing. NEAL CONAN, HOST: There are other surveys that show that, for example, college graduates did much better than non-college graduates in the recent economic turndown, which has so terribly disproportionately affected African-Americans in particular. Is there not another explanation as to the education gap that causes this problem? NANCY DITOMASO: Well, the people that I talked to were both college graduates and non-college graduates and men and women in several different parts of the country. And surprisingly, I did not find a difference on basis of class, college-educated or not college education - college-educated, in terms of the proportion of jobs that people found over their lifetimes through these kinds of mechanisms. Everyone uses these kinds of mechanisms when it's available to them and particularly to find jobs that are valuable in terms of, again, providing either a decent wage, benefits, pensions. And, therefore, you know, these kinds of jobs are important opportunities and therefore they are hoarded for family and friends or acquaintances or people like me. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Particularly in hard times. NANCY DITOMASO: Particularly in hard times. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We want to get callers in on the conversation. How did you find out about the job you now have? 800-989-8255. Email us: talk@npr.org. And let's go to Carrie(ph) in Ypsilanti, Michigan. CARRIE: Hi there. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Hi, Carrie. How did you find out about the job you've got now? CARRIE: I am currently a taxi cab driver, and I found out about the job through a volunteer that I do at a college radio station here in Ann Arbor. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And so it was through an acquaintance then. CARRIE: Well, someone actually who listened to my radio program called and got to chatting with him, and he suggested that because I was looking for a new line of work. So he said it would be interesting for me if I enjoyed driving. And I told him I did so - I mean, I've been doing it just a little over two years. I worked at three different companies in the area, and the company that I end up now also networking came into play because it was someone that I used to work with who suggested another person I should meet who could get me a job at the company that I'm at now. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So friend of a friend, former colleague, that sort of thing. CARRIE: Exactly. But I don't usually take those unless I know that I can perform to my truest ability. If I don't think I'm going to end up liking the thing, I won't use that network because I don't want it to reflect badly on the person that helped me out. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And what about the radio gig? You still doing that? CARRIE: Oh, of course, yes, every Sunday night, from 9:00 to midnight. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Congratulations. Stay with it. CARRIE: Thank you. Thank you. Have a great day. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Thanks very much for the call. And, Nancy DiTomaso, it's interesting. You said there was a distinction in your piece. There was a distinction between relatively lower level jobs where it - you may not need a contact to get it and higher paying jobs where you probably do. NANCY DITOMASO: Yes, although I would say that the line between those two is relatively low, so we're not necessarily talking about good jobs or best jobs. We're talking about almost all jobs unless, as one of my interviewees said, it's - one job is as bad as another. For those kinds of jobs where you can go door to door and just find first jobs available, then you may not want to use your networks for that. You might want to save them for more valuable opportunities. But even for working class jobs and even for about half of the jobs that perhaps don't require much education, people still drew on networks to find those kinds of jobs. So it's still pretty pervasive if 70 percent of the jobs over people's lifetimes are found with this kind of additional inside edge. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Fewer and fewer of us are in union jobs, but did you find any distinction there? NANCY DITOMASO: Well, I certainly talked to some union members, and union jobs, in particular, are ones that, in the past, those who held those jobs thought that they should be able to make them available to their children, to their relatives and so on. And to the extent that the civil rights movement or affirmative action policies or public policies in general made those jobs more broadly available, that induced a great deal of resistance to those kinds of policies. So that is a concern and one of the things that I did find in talking with people in my study. NANCY DITOMASO: But let me mention with regard to the caller that a number of the people that I talk to when they realize that they had just told me about this sort of insight edge when we talked about the jobs that they held would say something like, that just got me in the door and then I had to prove myself. But they didn't seem to recognize that many people might have been able to prove themselves if they had gotten in the door. And therefore, it was a significant advantage, in fact, to get into the door, get the job and have the opportunity for both training and for proving themselves in these situations. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We're talking on the Opinion Page this week with Nancy DiTomaso of Rutgers Business School. Her piece, "How Social Networks Drive Black Unemployment," was published yesterday in The New York Times' Great Divide series. She is also the author of "The American Non-Dilemma: Racial Inequality Without Racism." You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. And Erica's(ph) on the line with us from Manchester in New Hampshire. ERICA: Hi. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Erica, you're on the air. Go ahead, please. ERICA: Well, I'm white. But the reason I was calling is I've now lived in New Hampshire for 11 years and I came to New Hampshire because someone suggested I worked for a paper in New Hampshire. From that paper, someone suggested I work somewhere else when I needed a change. And then when that paper downsized, I started working for the AP because I had a couple of friends that worked there and got me a part-time job and found another job that way. So I've now been here 11 years and never handed anyone a resume. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And all of those jobs through connections? NANCY DITOMASO: All of them, yes. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And that first one, somebody you knew, how did you know that person? ERICA: I was in a graduate school program at the time and I was working on Capitol Hill reporting for a paper out in Montana and he was the editor. He was the editor based in D.C. and he liked my writing and said he thought I would - I'd benefit from working for this paper where his friend was the publisher. NEAL CONAN, HOST: So one colleague recommended you to another and so then the wheel starts. Is it your experience form your colleagues that just about everybody gets their jobs that way? ERICA: I would say it's about half. And half a number of people at the company I worked for did apply. But in terms of the people I know in the journalism world, more of them than not actually found their jobs through connections, not through applications. There aren't a lot of jobs listed out there, at least in New Hampshire, for the things I was looking for. NEAL CONAN, HOST: I would agree with you. I don't think there's a lot of jobs listed in trade journalism these days. Erica, thanks very much. Good luck to you. And as we listen to that, Nancy DiTomaso, 11 years, three different jobs, never gave anyone a resume. Yet, there are an awful lot of jobs, and you think about for universities or certainly, public jobs, you know, government jobs, where there's seemingly excruciating search process. NANCY DITOMASO: Well, this caller's experience, in fact, was not unusual, given the people that I talked to. In fact, a very typical situation that people would go from one job to the other usually because they knew someone or because someone could tell them about an opportunity that others didn't know about. And although there are lots and lots of processes put in place to try and make it a fair system, I heard over and over again from the people that I talked to in my study you just don't get a job there unless you know someone. This was true in public agencies and large firms, in small firms and entrepreneurial firms. It just is the typical way that people get jobs. NANCY DITOMASO: So even if there is a process of an open search and applications come in, still the ones that get selected out, the people that are interviewed, it's usually - have some kind of commonality or contact that allows them to stand out. For example, I talked to one person who every job he had was through some kind of friends. People liked him and they helped him, and he told, for example, of going to one job interview where he happened to look down the hallway and there was someone he went to high school with who recognized him who came up and put her arm around him, saying this is my friend. Take care of him. That's a very typical kind of story that people tell. NANCY DITOMASO: Now, it's important to understand that people know on the one hand that networks are important and that they matter. But on the other hand again, when I ask people, you know, what most contributed to your having the kind of life you have? They didn't say because I had good networks. They said because I worked hard, because I'm smart, because I'm motivated. So there's this huge gap in terms of how we think about what has happened in our lives and how we actually live our lives. NANCY DITOMASO: And I talk about this in the book and I think that it's important to understand in terms of a policy issue is that while all the people that I talked to said that they believed in equal opportunity as a standard of fairness, they spent their entire lives seeking unequal opportunity. That really is the process by which people are trying to make their way in the world. Nobody really wants to compete on equal basis where they don't know the outcome. They want an advantage and they want to get ahead. That's the kind of language we use and we, in fact, mean we want to stand out from the crowd and get the opportunity before someone else does. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Nancy DiTomaso, thanks very much for your time today. NANCY DITOMASO: Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Nancy DiTomaso, a professor and vice dean for faculty and research at Rutgers Business School. Again, her piece, "How Social Networks Drive Black Unemployment," was published yesterday in The New York Times' Great Divide series. You can find a link to it on our website. Go to npr.org and click on TALK OF THE NATION. This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.

Job seekers often rely on friends, family members and other connections to land jobs. Nancy DiTomaso, professor at Rutgers Business School, explains her research that shows that such seemingly harmless favoritism in networking is driving black unemployment in the U.S. Read Nancy DiTomaso's New York Times piece "How Social Networks Drive Black Unemployment."

Arbeitssuchende verlassen sich oft auf Freunde, Familienmitglieder und andere Verbindungen um Arbeit zu finden. Nancy DiTomaso, Professorin an Rutgers Business school, erklärt ihre Forschung, die zeigt, dass eine scheinbar harmlose Bevorzugung von Netzwerken die schwarze Arbeitslosigkeit in den USA antreibt. Lesen Sie Nancy DiTomasos New York Times-Artikel \" wie soziale Netzwerke schwarze Arbeitslosigkeit antreibt"

求职者通常依靠朋友、家人和其他关系找到工作。罗格斯商学院教授南希·迪多玛佐解释说，她的研究表明，对于社交网络中这种看似无害的偏爱正在加剧美国的黑人失业。来自南希·迪多玛佐发布在《纽约时报》上的文章《社交网络如何导致黑人失业》。

MADELEINE BRAND, Host: This is Day to Day from NPR News. I'm Madeleine Brand. Neo-Nazis are planning a big march in Dresden, Germany, this Saturday. About 6,000 right-wing extremists are expected there. This comes after the near fatal stabbing of a German police chief last month by suspected neo-Nazis. Analysts say the incident shows that the extreme right has reached a more threatening dimension in mainstream Germany. NPR's Sylvia Poggioli reports. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: It used to be easy to spot German neo-Nazis: shaved heads, black leather jackets and black boots. Today, the far right has gone upscale. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: Unidentified Sales Clerk (Tonsberg, Berlin, Germany): (Through translator) That was done by leftists. They didn't like what we're selling here. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: Unidentified Shop Patron (Tonsberg, Berlin, Germany: (Through translator) Some politicians think that behind the Nordic symbols there's some right-wing ideology. That's ridiculous. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: That's not ridiculous at all, according to nearby shop owners. After Tonsberg opened in February, they joined forces to try to shut it down, as has been done successfully against some Tonsberg branches in other German cities. TOBIAS CUTHNER: The store, which doesn't look like a Nazi fashion store, but in the end, it is. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: Tobias Cuthner(ph) runs the gallery next door. He says Tonsberg apparel is coded. The Nordic symbols were dear to the Nazis in the 1930s, and now neo-Nazis, Cuthner says, no longer feel they're on the fringes. TOBIAS CUTHNER: They want to establish themselves in the center of society, and they want to establish a brand which is comparable to the flagship stores we have here from Nike and Adidas and Hugo Boss and so on. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: German neo-Nazis identify with the NPD, the National Democratic Party, which the Domestic Intelligence Agency describes as racist and anti-Semitic. In recent years, it has gained political traction, which analysts attribute to growing German animosity toward immigrants. NPD, which calls itself a national resistance party, now has elected representatives in two regional parliaments in the former East Germany. In elections last fall, the NPD won seats in every county council in the eastern state of Saxony. NPD leader Udo Voigt says the party is no longer isolated in German society because people here reject the multicultural model he claims has been imposed by the United States. UDO VOIGT: (Through translator) We are Germans and we know our people, and we believe that we have a future as Germans only if our ethnicity and our race are protected from annihilation. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: That means, Voigt says, that all foreigners are a threat to German identity and should leave the country. Thousands of foreigners have abandoned the East following a wave of racist violence by neo-Nazi skinheads. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: The Georg Menheim School is located in the eastern town of Oranienburg. A plaque declares the school is racism free. In order to earn that distinction, 70 percent of all the school members - students, teachers and janitors - had to agree in writing. Principal Dieter Starke says it's particularly important because of the school's location. DIETER STARKE: (Through translator) We're a few hundred meters from Sachsenhausen, the former concentration camp. Therefore, this school has an obligation to be outspoken against racism and anti-Semitism. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: But he acknowledges it wasn't easy. This is a vocational school, and dozens of students working at local companies were warned against joining the anti-racism platform under threat of being fired. Starke says some local companies helped to finance the NPD and that neo-Nazis are now targeting civil society. DIETER STARKE: (Through translator) They're smart; they've changed tactics. They're more subversive; you can't detect them anymore. They've infiltrated associations and clubs, and they organize events for students. This is how they try to brainwash the young and pass on their ideology. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: Today, there's a special event at the school, a performance by students who worked on a project about the Holocaust. Eighteen-year-old Marika Pangovski(ph) says it was very important because none of the students knew much about Jews. MARIKA PANGOVSKI: What happened during the Second World War and the Third Reich was not over when the war was over, but it left its traces into the present and we learned about it, that things didn't finish when war was finished, but you know, it did linger on, really, in the minds of the people and in their lives. SYLVIA POGGIOLI: Officials in the eastern part of the country are worried about the growing clout of the extreme right. Repeated calls to ban the NPD outright have fallen flat. Some politicians now suggest freezing funds that the state earmarks to all parties with elected officials. Should this pass, the NPD would lose nearly half its financial lifeline. Sylvia Poggioli, NPR News.

German authorities are concerned that the neo-Nazi movement may be gaining traction by adopting mainstream techniques. A sports apparel shop in Berlin looks like any other except for the display of ancient Nordic mythology symbols associated with 1930s-era Nazis. The National Democratic Party, which the domestic intelligence describes as racist and anti-semitic, is making gains in provincial and county elections in the former East Germany.

Die deutschen Behörden befürchten, dass die Neonazi-Bewegung durch die Übernahme von Mainstream-Techniken an Zugkraft gewinnen könnte. Ein Sportbekleidungsgeschäft in Berlin sieht aus wie jedes andere, bis auf die Darstellung alter nordischer Mythologiesymbole, die mit den Nazis der 1930er Jahre in Verbindung gebracht werden. Die Nationaldemokratische Partei, die vom Inlandsgeheimdienst als rassistisch und antisemitisch bezeichnet wird, gewinnt bei Landtags- und Bezirkswahlen in den neuen Bundesländern an Boden.

德国当局担心，新纳粹运动可能会通过采用主流技术获得支持。柏林的一家运动服装店除了陈列着与20世纪30年代纳粹有关的北欧神话符号外，看起来和其他店没有什么不同。被国内情报部门描述为种族主义和反犹太主义的国家民主党，正在前东德的省和县选举中取得进展。

MADELEINE BRAND, host: This is Day to Day. I'm Madeleine Brand. In a few minutes, the recession trickledown continues. State budget cuts mean less money for kids with autism. But first, President Obama kept up the pressure for congressional action on the economy during his visit today to Fort Myers, Florida. President BARACK OBAMA: We can't wait and see and hope for the best. I believe in hope, but I also believe in action. MADELEINE BRAND, host: The president is in Fort Myers because it had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation last year. The median home price there fell from its peak of $322,000 three years ago to its current price, $107,000. The unemployment rate is around 10 percent. Next door, in Cape Coral, things aren't any better. Mike Quaintance is the president of Cape Coral's Chamber of Commerce. And if you would, take us back four years. Cape Coral was living pretty large, living the high life. What was happening in the real-estate market? Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Well, we were experiencing a huge boom due to everybody interested in getting a piece of the retirement dream. We are a destination for retirees, and we've got over 300 miles of canals that go behind the residential units that are here. We have more canals than Venice, Italy. We were riding high. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And then what happened? Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Well, then the next thing that happened is that, you know, we started seeing a softening of the market. We - as you stated earlier, our median price has dropped down substantially. And we had a very big lull here for awhile. Cape Coral is kind of a bedroom community, and its major industry is building homes. We went from permitting about 8500 single-family homes in a 12-month period to probably less than 200 this year. So, for us, that was a significant impact. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Well, describe what it looks like. I mean, you initially describe Cape Coral as a paradise for people, with the sun and the water and the canals. What does it look like now as you drive down the streets? Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Well, there is a lot of for-sale signs in front of homes, and there's some, you know, homes that have grass that's way too long, but the really cool part is things that we're seeing now is that folks that have squirreled away money or maybe taken money out of the stock market are starting to come back in droves, and we've had three and four times the sales volume on a monthly basis on our re-sales here in the past six months. And so, we believe we're starting to see some signs of improvement. We really... Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): I think we're all ready to turn the corner, so to speak. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Have you seen a lot of people move out in the last couple of years? Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Well, anybody that was pretty much related to the building industry probably has relocated to either Texas, Louisiana or Mississippi, because there's still activity there, you know, rebuilding after the storms and stuff. So, yes, we've seen a lot of our subcontractors and related industries, those people moved to other areas of the country in order to find work. MADELEINE BRAND, host: And you said it's a retirement community; what about the retirees? How are they faring? Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): They are not doing bad at all. I mean, unless they were heavily leveraged in the stock market, most of them are doing fairly well. I happen to serve on a board of directors for a retirement community here. While they are worried about outliving their money, they've done a pretty good job of protectionism for their assets and stuff. MADELEINE BRAND, host: So, you say things are starting to turn around and people are starting to buy houses, but they're still not buying houses at prices that you saw a few years ago. Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Oh, absolutely not. No, that's - the real-estate agents will tell you that they're working harder for a lot less because they've seen their commissions diminish and stuff like that, plus the challenges of dealing with foreclosures and short sales, which, three or four years ago, nobody in our community knew what a short sale was. So, it's been an eye-opening experience for all of our industry segments here. MADELEINE BRAND, host: So, what is your pitch to people who, you know, that you want people to come to Cape Coral? What do you say to them? Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Little piece of paradise that's never been this inexpensive before... Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): It's really - I mean, it's - I came here back in 1993, and the prices that were starting - or that we've seen are actually rivaling what was going on then. If you want sunshine and you want water and you want a quality of life at a very, very, very reasonable and affordable price, now is the time, if you've got the wherewithal to do it. I think one of the things that we hope is that the president's plans and some of the banking dollars actually find their way down here to help stimulate the housing market even more. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Mike Quaintance is the president of Cape Coral's Chamber of Commerce. Thank you very much. Mr. MIKE QUAINTANCE (President, Cape Coral Chamber of Commerce): Thank you. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Stay with us. NPR's Day to Day continues.

President Barack Obama traveled to Florida Tuesday to make the case for fast action on the economic stimulus package. The state has been hard hit by the mortgage crisis.

US-Präsident Barack Obama reiste am Dienstag nach Florida, um sich für ein schnelles Handeln beim Konjunkturpaket zu werben. Der Bundesstaat wurde von der Hypothekenkrise schwer getroffen.

美国总统奥巴马周二前往佛罗里达州，就经济刺激方案提出快速行动的理由。该州目前正受到抵押贷款危机的重创。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: The hit Netflix show "Orange Is The New Black" just wrapped its final season. It was a critical and fan favorite for its dark comedy and sharply-drawn characters but also because it was one of a number of shows, like "Oz," that have tried to shine a light on prison conditions. And that story is also being told in an unusual place - a comic strip. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Fans of "Judge Parker," a serial created in 1952 that follows the life of small-town judge Alan Parker and his family, will have noticed that Judge Parker's storyline has taken a hard turn. He is in prison and, as of the last strip, recovering from a brutal beating at the hands of other inmates when they found out that he was a judge. It's the latest twist in a plot that's turned the comic strip into a platform for educating readers about the troubling realities of prison life. It's a lot to take on in a few illustrated panels, so we've called up the writer of "Judge Parker," Francesco Marciuliano. He took over the strip in 2016, and he's also the writer of "Sally Forth," another popular syndicated comic. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Francesco Marciuliano, thanks so much for joining us. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: Oh, thank you very much. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So we've spoken to you before. And I'm not going to get into all the details about why Judge Parker is in prison because it's a little crazy. But I'm just going to kind of summarize to say that he was, in a way, trapped. He thought he was doing the right thing, and this is what happened. And I just have to ask - you know, where did this come from? Where did you get the idea to follow this storyline? FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: Well, I will say he's not so much trapped. He did do the wrong thing, and he knowingly did the wrong thing for what he believed were for the right reasons. But he still did break the law. So there was going to be some sort of comeuppance in regard because I didn't want to do it where he does something illegal, and it's, like, but it's the main character. Let it slide. On the other hand, the idea was to show that once he's there, exactly where he's sending people. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: And one of the reasons I found this interesting is there are comics like "Doonesbury," for example, that are known for taking on topical issues, but that has always been the flavor of "Doonesbury." As I said before, this is a legacy comic. I mean, it started in 1952. The people who've been reading this comic aren't necessarily used to this. And I'm wondering how people - or how are your fans, how are the readers of the comic are taking it? FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: I - we'll use the word fans. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: This is a legacy strip. And I'm not trying to go, OK, now I'm just going to make it so now, and it's going to be thing. But on the other hand, you never want any strip or anything to be caught in amber, and you do want it to always be moving and feel like it's alive. So - now, granted, we do have the fantastic elements. Assassins appear regularly in this strip... MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: (Laughter). FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: ...So I'm not... MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Yes. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: By no means am I going, you know, this is frontline. But it's a thing that - I want the strip to feel like it's happening somewhere in this country as opposed to just on the paper. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: What's inspiring you to take on this issue of - I don't want to make it sound sort of dry, but, like, this issue of mass incarceration, this issue of what actually happens in prison? What is it that got you interested in this? FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: I know someone whose father has been incarcerated a few times, and I - and someone who has worked with social programs with prisoners. And I like comic strips where there is a gray area. I like it where you don't go, that's the good guy, which is why I wanted him to make a mistake and have him make - he made a choice - and have to make that choice, and then the consequences of that. Because if you write a strip where it's, like, these are the good guys, and that's the one twirling their mustache, at least for my sake, I get bored. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: So it was like, OK. I want to do something. This is a legal strip. We almost never handle legal issues. It's always a soap opera strip. So it was a matter of, like, let's do a legal thing. I know we're not going to do a court case because that's visually dull. But if we do a prison, that, at least - I'm not saying it hasn't been done in a strip. That would probably be a lie. But I haven't seen that recently. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Are you hoping that perhaps you might reach people who aren't going to watch "Orange Is The New Black?" I mean, are you hoping in a way that you'll connect with people who just aren't interested any other way? FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: I hope so. I'm not going to make the grand statement like, I'm the one who's going to turn them around on this. That's not how it works. But I think it's interesting for someone to see something that they normally wouldn't see and just look at it. Like, I don't mean to go sideways, but when I did "Sally Forth," I had Ted's dad pass away because my dad had passed away the year before. And I did the whole aspect of what that meant - doing the funeral arrangements, the after-effect of everything. And there were people who wrote to me thanking me very much for it. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: There were also a lot of people wrote to me - it's, like, I go to a comic strip for laughs - which is not something I agree with. They certainly are welcome to their opinion, and that's perfectly fine. But strips like this work best if there is at least a little - at least is a foot on the ground in reality. And so that's what drives some of these stories. Again - I know, this is a comic strip that regularly has assassins - but I like that, at least, you feel that sometimes the strip is touching actual soil. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That is Francesco Marciuliano. He writes the "Judge Parker" and "Sally Forth" comic strips. Francesco, thanks so much for talking to us once again. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: Thank you. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: I can't wait to see what happens. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: (Laughter). MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Do you want to tell me, hint? FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: You know what? I wrote that three months ago, so I'm kind of forgetting. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: OK. All right. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: (Laughter). MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: We'll find out together tomorrow. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: OK. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye. FRANCESCO MARCIULIANO: Thank you.

NPR's Michel Martin speaks to the writer of the comic strip "Judge Parker," Francesco Marciuliano, about highlighting criminal justice issues in his story lines.

Michel Martin von NPR spricht mit dem Autor des Comicstrips \"Richter Parker\", Francesco Marciuliano, über die Hervorhebung von Problemen der Strafjustiz in seinen Handlungssträngen.

美国国家公共广播电台记者米歇尔·马丁采访了连环画《帕克法官》的作者弗朗西斯科·马丘利亚诺，谈到了在他的故事情节中突出的刑事司法问题。

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: There's a major shakeup at the world's most profitable company that also happens to be the company that fuels the economy of Saudi Arabia. As announced this week, the chairman of the national oil company Saudi Aramco has been replaced. The new chairman doesn't come from the oil business, but he has a major credential. He is an ally of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. NPR's Jackie Northam reports. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Just a few days ago, Khaled al-Faleh had a broad and powerful portfolio overseeing mining and industrial development in Saudi Arabia, heading up the state oil Goliath, Aramco. Al-Faleh was also the kingdom's energy minister. He retains that position. The others have been stripped away. EMILY HAWTHORNE: I think for him to be separated from Aramco certainly ends a significant amount of tradition that the kingdom has held for a long time to have the energy ministry and Aramco together. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Emily Hawthorne is a Middle East analyst at Stratfor, a geopolitical intelligence company. She says unpredictable acts have become the hallmark of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. EMILY HAWTHORNE: It's in line with what the crown prince has been known for, which is trying to shake up some of the tradition, trying to inject new ideas into how to run some of these ministries. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: The announcement came from Faleh himself. He tweeted that he's been replaced by Yasir Al-Rumayyan, a former local investment banker who for three years has been running Saudi Arabia's public investment fund, which is one of the largest sovereign wealth funds in the world. ELLEN WALD: I do see the appointment of Rumayyan as somewhat not inspiring of confidence. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Ellen Wald is the author of "Saudi, Inc.", which is a history of the Saudi energy industry and Aramco. She says Rumayyan, a close ally of the crown prince, has made some controversial, even risky, investment decisions. ELLEN WALD: For example, they invest in a lot of startups in America. They're a big investor in the tech scene. They've invested in Uber, in a augmented reality platform, called Magic Leap. Many of their investments seem much more like those of a venture capital firm as opposed to a traditional sovereign wealth fund. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Wald says there's concern that Rumayyan has no experience in oil. She says Aramco became successful in part because it was run by professional oil men who were independent from the Saudi government. ELLEN WALD: What we have been seeing over the past several years is increased control being exerted over Aramco by the government, by people who are not oil professionals and who may have different goals and strategies in mind than those who have controlled the company. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Rumayyan's move to head up Aramco is seen as part of an effort by the crown prince to publicly sell off about 5% of the oil company. It's been repeatedly delayed among skepticism about a lack of transparency in the company's books. Simon Henderson, a Saudi specialist at the Washington Institute, says the crown prince hopes to raise about $100 billion in an initial public offering, which will go into the sovereign wealth fund that Rumayyan continues to run to help diversify the economy and invest in mega projects in the kingdom. SIMON HENDERSON: And there is a degree of concern that what the crown prince wants to invest in are highly imaginative, or rather, over-imaginative projects which won't actually change Saudi Arabia in the way that he wants it to. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Henderson says this is all part of the crown prince's strategy to wean Saudi Arabia off its dependency on oil. SIMON HENDERSON: It's ironic that in order to change it from an oil-based economy, you are depending on oil to do it. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: And depending on a close ally at the head of Aramco to help smooth the process. JACKIE NORTHAM, BYLINE: Jackie Northam, NPR News.

Oil giant Saudi Aramco's chairman has been removed and replaced with a close ally of the crown prince. The company fuels the Saudi economy and the change in leadership could be risky.

Der Vorsitzende des Ölriesen Saudi Aramco wurde abgesetzt und durch einen engen Verbündeten des Kronprinzen ersetzt. Das Unternehmen treibt die saudische Wirtschaft an und der Führungswechsel könnte ein Risiko darstellen.

石油巨头沙特阿美的董事长被免职，取而代之的是王储的亲密盟友。该公司是沙特经济的重要支柱，公司领导层的变动可能存在风险。

NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan, in Washington. Too many of those injured in Boston last Monday lost limbs in the explosion and now face a long and difficult recovery. Because the pressure-cooker bombs were in bags placed on the sidewalk, the shrapnel maimed and shredded many people's legs. Their basic challenge, of course, is to walk again. But the physical, mental and emotional process stretches far beyond those first steps. NEAL CONAN, HOST: These new amputees will have to make adjustments and changes they never anticipated, but other amputees have a pretty good idea about what's ahead. So if that's you, call and tell us what we don't know: 800-989-8255. Email us: talk@npr.org. You can also join the conversation on our website. That's at npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Later in the program, a visit to the world's newest country, South Sudan, building itself from scratch. But first, we begin with the story of amputees, and let's start with a caller, and Fidel(ph) is on the line - whoops. Fidel is with us from Denver. FIDEL: Yes. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Hi. What's your story? FIDEL: Well, back in '04, my wife treated me with a gift of a motorcycle. I was in the military at the time, and on leave, she presented me with it. Shortly thereafter, I did get into a no-fault wreck. It was a not-very-well-lit road, loose gravel. Long story short, woke up a few days later in the hospital with the doctor down by my leg, and I had a lower right amputation happen. FIDEL: The military, you know, I still - I stayed in until '07, and I came out. But what I wanted to say about the amputation is, you know, that first year is rough. It's very, very rough. And that support group that they need to get into, if you can find it, do it immediately. Don't go through, you know, the (unintelligible) that you're going to face with the loss of your limb. There's just really great support groups out there right now. FIDEL: And let's see what else. Well, what else would you like to know? NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, physically, what is it like getting around? Are you - well, you're obviously not the same as you were before. FIDEL: Well, obviously not, yes. But it gets better. And with the advancements of what prostheses are out there nowadays, it's astounding. I mean, I play softball. I run. I exercise. I live a normal life. It's almost as if I had my regular leg, but obviously, I don't. And it gets easier with time. It really does. NEAL CONAN, HOST: But one week afterwards, the people in Boston are going through it. One week after, the world looked pretty dark, I guess. FIDEL: Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I'll tell you what: Right now, I'm pretty sure emotionally, physically, mentally, they're in a pretty dark place, you know, because it's new. And talk about phantom pain, that's something that even, what, nine years later of my amputation, I still get them from periodic, time to time. NEAL CONAN, HOST: The phantom pain is your leg hurts even though it's not there. FIDEL: Exactly, exactly, and there's medication for that. I mean, I took Neurontin for a long time, and that helped it subside. But, you know, I weaned myself off a little bit - I'm not really going to actually say weaned. With my doctor's help, came off of that medication, because it got to a point where it really wasn't there anymore. FIDEL: And when I say it comes and goes, that - because I live in Colorado, and day to day, weather can be funky over here, and so cold-to-hot does mess with the pain that comes and goes. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Weather has been particularly funky this particular year. FIDEL: Oh, yeah. NEAL CONAN, HOST: I do have to ask, you talked about support groups. In a way, these people can form a support group of their own. Do you think that might help them? FIDEL: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, because there, they've got that common bond of what they were doing together, and that was running the marathon. I mean... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Many of them were there as spectators, but yeah. FIDEL: Yeah, for sure, for sure, but there. I mean, that, having been there, you know, either running or experiencing it or witnessing it, you know, it - they have that. And that is the biggest tie, man. I mean, that would be something that they should get together and talk about it, I mean, because obviously, that's the best medicine that there is, is talking about it. FIDEL: And then, you know, the physical part about it, they'll have to do that, you know, in the hospital with their physical therapy, and so on and so forth. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, Fidel, thanks very much, and continued good luck. FIDEL: Thank you. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Let's turn now to Mike LaForgia, himself an amputee, who joins us now from his office in Garden City, New York. And Mike LaForgia, good of you to be with us today. MIKE LAFORGIA: Hi, Neal. Thank you very much. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Based on your experience, I wonder what advice you might offer to the Boston folks who are just beginning to come to terms with their injuries. MIKE LAFORGIA: Sure, yeah. And by way of intro, or my circumstances, I contracted - the way I became an amputee is I contracted bacterial meningitis, which is a disease that - it impacts about 3,500 people a year in the United States, and it's a very deadly disease. And what - for those that do survive, because of the way it affects you, and it's such a vicious infection, your body goes into septic shock. MIKE LAFORGIA: And if you're not familiar with septic shock, septic shock has an effect in which the body shoots out blood clots to shut off blood flow to the extremities in an attempt to save your life. And that process ends up causing a frostbite-type effect and results often in amputation. MIKE LAFORGIA: So although I wasn't expected to survive the night when I first became ill with bacterial meningitis, I did, and I did survive, you know, a 10-day coma and a couple of months in the hospital. That's the good news. I did, however, end up with amputations. MIKE LAFORGIA: For me, I had bilateral amputations, so I lost the toes on my left foot, and I lost most of my right foot. Initially, my right foot was rebuilt using the - what's called a flap surgery, where they - and some of the folks from Boston, I'm sure, are facing these types of decisions - they rebuilt the foot using the lat muscle of my left back. And that was quote-unquote "functional" for about a year. MIKE LAFORGIA: And I elected a year later to amputate the leg below the knee to improve mobility and lessen pain and just return to a more active lifestyle. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And everybody's story will be different - medically, obviously - even the people injured in the same incident in Boston. MIKE LAFORGIA: Right. NEAL CONAN, HOST: But as they come to terms with this, in essence, you decided to go for the greater operation, but you were already severely restricted. MIKE LAFORGIA: That's correct. That's correct. Yeah. And the gentleman that called in earlier said a very - a couple of very accurate things. I mean, right, I mean, the initial impact of this is very shocking, especially for those who don't have the luxury of making a decision like I did or come into it via a traumatic accident like the folks in Boston have been involved in. MIKE LAFORGIA: And the first year will be very difficult. The things that he mentioned, the fit of the prosthetic socket, will change with weight change, with weather change, with just healing and swelling from surgeries. But after the first year, it does begin to get easier, and they can absolutely - it's hard to look at it now, but down the road, they can look at a time when life will be fairly normal. MIKE LAFORGIA: For me, in my now seventh year as an amputee, it's really not often on my mind. I can, you know, put my leg on at six in the morning when I go to work and take it off, you know, at midnight when I go to bed, and I can do many of the things that I'd done before. I was an athlete before this occurred. I had done two New York City Marathons and a half-Iron Man before I lost my leg, and I've since returned and done one New York City Marathon since then. MIKE LAFORGIA: So you really can achieve - you know, with a little more challenge and maybe not as fast as the last time, but you can achieve the same level of activity, just in some cases, in a different way. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And when you say put your leg on at 6 o'clock in the morning, you've got more than one leg. MIKE LAFORGIA: I do, yes. I - and because of my activities, I have my walking leg. I have two running legs, which I use because of the partial foot side, I require a running blade. You've seen - you know, you've seen the runners on the marathons... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Sure, Oscar Pistorius, yeah. MIKE LAFORGIA: Yes, yes, sometimes not a good guy to bring up these days, but yeah. NEAL CONAN, HOST: He's got his own problems, but still. MIKE LAFORGIA: Yes, but a great example of, you know, pushing the limit on what can be achieved. And so yes, I look like - very much like Oscar when I run. And then I have a bike leg, which I utilize, which clips directly into my bike pedal. And I even have an older walking leg, which was converted into a swim leg, which lets me sort of walk into the ocean, as opposed to, you know, a pool or something like that. MIKE LAFORGIA: So I do, I have quite a bit - and I use those things to stay as active as I can, and it's important to stay fit as an amputee and maintain your weight, because a five-pound weight change can change your fit and cause you to have to go back and see your prosthetist. NEAL CONAN, HOST: We want to hear from the amputees in our audience to tell us what we don't know about life without a limb or two. Give us a call: 800-989-8255. Email talk@npr.org. And - excuse me - I just wanted to get Maryann(ph) on the line. Maryann's on with us from Boise. MARYANN: Hi, this is Maryann. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Yeah. Go ahead, please. MARYANN: Hi. I'm a double amputee. I lost my legs in a similar situation. It was a landmine blast while I was working in Africa. And I woke up in a hospital not knowing how I got there and realized I had no legs below the knees. So it was a very, very similar situation. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And what is it that we don't understand about it, those of us who are not in your situation? MARYANN: Well, all the things that the previous folks have mentioned about fit and the ongoing pain and discomfort, but as a woman, and the appearance being very important to me, I think it's really important that if any of these are women, that they need to really advocate for something that they can live with so that they're not relegated to have to walk around in long pants and long skirts and that sort of thing for the rest of their lives. MARYANN: And also, another point I wanted to bring up is the problem of insurance, that unfortunately, a lot of the insurance that Americans have does not fully cover prosthetics, and some, it's not covered at all. And so this may become an issue because one prosthetic limb is, we're talking $10,000 and up. And you're going to need more than one in your lifetime, for sure. MARYANN: And so this is something that people are going to have to learn to advocate for themselves and really be assertive about. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, we're told that there's been a lot of donations to a fund in Boston that's going to be administered by Kenneth Feinberg, the distribution of those monies. So perhaps - we don't know how that's going to be divvied up, but perhaps there will be some help for these people with their prosthetics. But obviously, that does not - that only covers the people there in Boston from this particular incident, and not the many people around the country who have to live with this, like you, Maryann. NEAL CONAN, HOST: But thanks very much for the phone call. We appreciate it. If you've lost a limb, call, tell us: What don't we know about living as an amputee? 800-989-8255. Send us an email: talk@npr.org. More in just a moment. Stay with us. I'm Neal Conan. It's the TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan. According to the National Limb Loss Information Center, about 1.7 million Americans live without at least one of their limbs. The bombings at the Boston Marathon added several new amputees to that number. Their ranks have also swelled with veterans in the past decade who have lost limbs in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Many of those injured soldiers pass through the Center for the Intrepid at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio. The chief of prosthetics there will join us in a minute. First, if you're an amputee, call and tell us what don't we understand about living without a limb, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Our guest, Mike LaForgia, who became a double amputee in 2006. And let's see if we can get another caller on the line. Let's go to Kevin(ph), and Kevin's with us from Phoenix. KEVIN: Yeah, hi there. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Hi, go ahead please. KEVIN: Yeah, I was talking with your - the guy briefing me, and one of the - a couple of things I mentioned to her was, you know, the importance of getting a really good prosthetic guy because, you know, that's - I mean just those guys really - you can't - the first guys I got were just terrible, and a lot of people had problems with them. KEVIN: But another thing I brought up with her is a lot of amputees I've run into with have a lot of trouble with sleep, a lot of sleep issues. And so a lot of them end up taking medication just for that. And I think that's also contributed to some of the people I know that end up with, you know, problems with pain medication, taking it for too long and some other things like that. Hello? MIKE LAFORGIA: Hi Neal, did we lose you? KEVIN: No, this is... NEAL CONAN, HOST: Ah, hello, my mic went dead momentarily. NEAL CONAN, HOST: This is a new studio I'm having to get used to. Mike LaForgia, do you have problems sleeping? MIKE LAFORGIA: I don't, I don't. I did want to comment, though, on the first thing that the gentleman mentioned there, which is the importance of a good prosthetist. You know, we have a slogan in our amputee world which is there's no such thing as bad prosthetics but only bad prosthetists. MIKE LAFORGIA: It's a very unique medical field. It's a combination of, you know, mechanics and really artwork in terms of the fit of the socket to the leg. So you do want to - you don't want to waste a long time working with a prosthetist that's not working for you. So, you know, avoid the small storefront-type of prosthetists. Look to, you know, the hangers. MIKE LAFORGIA: There's A Step Ahead in New York, which is, you know, certainly in the top three in the nation, I would say. Look for those. It's worth even flying, you know, multiple states to receive the right care. There's too many stories of people who have gone 10, 15 years unable to walk right, and they happen to see the right prosthetist, and, you know, it's night and day. So don't waste a lot of time on the wrong guy. That's a key point. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Kevin, thanks very much for the call and for the advice. KEVIN: Yeah. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Joining us now is John Fergason, chief of prosthetics at the Center for the Intrepid Rehabilitation Facility at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio. Nice of you to join us today. JOHN FERGASON: Thank you for having me, and a pleasure to be involved today. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And we keep hearing how much prosthetics have improved. Can you give us an idea of how much? JOHN FERGASON: Well, I think there's been drastic improvement, certainly over the last two decades, and a large march forward in even the last decade. You know, your last caller discussed the importance of the interaction with a good prosthetist and finding a good prosthetist. I really couldn't echo that more, where really as important, or many times more important than the technology, is the human factor and the interaction that the individual has with the person they're really depending upon to get them ambulating again. JOHN FERGASON: So I will often say that it's not the technology that moves you forward so quickly, it's the rehabilitation process, it's the other professionals you interact with, and certainly the largest key to, I think, a successful outcome is going to be the individual drive of that person who has suffered this life-altering event. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And the importance of these technology, yes you have to have the right person, but the technology has improved tremendously. JOHN FERGASON: No question, no question about it. So if you for instance have an amputation that's above the knee, there is a much larger opportunity to progress farther than you would have several years ago. The advancements in microprocessor technology, where a knee can actually control a certain amount of your pace, it can control and allow you for safe descent down a hill or a ramp, even step over step going up stairs, which several years ago was really pretty unheard of. JOHN FERGASON: You can even go from a walk to a run with the right component to help you do that. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Mike LaForgia, I just wanted to ask you: In your experience, in your time as an amputee, have things improved? MIKE LAFORGIA: Sorry, you know, it's interesting. I do agree. I've seen tremendous strides in the innovation but not much below the knee. It's very true, the above-the-knee innovation has excelled. I tend to think that even greater than the innovation, the change in expectation has been even greater. MIKE LAFORGIA: I think what's - what an amputee can expect today has never been better. There is a willingness, you know, for - or almost normal for a prosthetist to begin working on a running leg for a patient that he would never have considered, you know, five, six, seven years ago. MIKE LAFORGIA: We have soldiers leaving, you know, Walter Reed Hospital with a running leg, you know, as normal commission. That's the practice. They leave with their walking leg and their running. You can't do a race these days without seeing an amputee in a 5K or 10K in your local neighborhood. So there's - the bar has been raised on what amputees can expect when working with their prosthetist, and we're all pushing the envelopes on, you know, not being willing to just accept being able to walk to work every day. MIKE LAFORGIA: We want to run. We want to ride our bikes. We want to be able to coach our kids' soccer and baseball, and people are doing it. So, you know, innovation has been great, but I think the expectations of what you can do is even greater. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And it's interesting, John Fergason, that expectation, once people get over the shock, well, they expect to be able to do a lot of things. I assume that helps. JOHN FERGASON: Yes, it is a tremendous driver for us on the provision side of prosthetics to where when someone comes to me with very lofty expectations, my job is not to shoot that down. My job is to say OK, let me come along beside you, and let's figure out how we're going to do this. JOHN FERGASON: Now there are a lot of factors that can influence that. But certainly if someone comes to me with very low expectations, those are easily met, right. But a lot of it is oftentimes to individual circumstances. So I can't really compare possibilities for someone with maybe a partial foot amputation or a long below-the-knee amputation to someone with a high above-the-knee amputation or someone even with double amputations. JOHN FERGASON: So you have to kind of temper it a little bit about the possibilities, but I - really I'm certainly never one to say no, you can't do that. I'll never say that to somebody. I'll say we will try and do everything possible to do that. You decide what you want to pursue, and I will help you get there. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Here's an email from Edward(ph) in Holland, Michigan: I'm a double amputee, both legs below the knee, lost because of infections. It has changed my world. I wish I could say that things are getting better, if ever, ever so slowly. I think we all go through the Kubler-Ross stages of grief. I'm still at the anger stage. I would recommend a support group. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And let's see if we can get another caller on the line. This is Ryan(ph), and Ryan's with us from Midland, Texas. RYAN: Yes, sir, hello. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Hi, go ahead, please. RYAN: I lost my left leg about a month and a half ago. There was a guy outside stealing stuff from our yard, a (unintelligible) charger and wood. I got a gun and went out there, a 12-guage shotgun, chased him off, dropped it to my side, walked inside to dial 911 on my phone, hit 911 boom, and took it off. RYAN: I woke up and long, long, long story short, woke up in the hospital, and my foot was on a cookie sheet, my leg was on a cookie sheet, and I was in a big mess(ph). And listening to everyone call in and speak and tell about their own story and about what's going on have all hit the nail on the head. RYAN: First of all, there's going to be phantom pain. It's going to hurt, and it's tragic. There are few things, fewer in life, harder than dealing with something that's been there for 26 years in my case, to the today, (unintelligible) my birthday, 26 years, and then having to acclimate with the pain and the learning to walk again, the stigma, the - you've got to reorganize your entire life. RYAN: And a couple - a guy that called a couple callers ahead of me, hit the nail on the head. He said a lot of people get addicted to Oxycontin or Darvocet or whatever. It's been six months, writhing in the bed going oh my leg, my leg, what am I going to do, it's never going to be the same. And it's horrible to do that. It's self-defeating to do that. RYAN: This happened to me a month and a half ago, and a week out of the hospital, I was driving my car, working, and I had a smile on my face because if you look at it as I lost my leg, it'll never be the same, this is awful, this ruined me, it will. It will stop you in your tracks, and you will never leave your bed again. You're going to be all high on painkillers playing "Halo: Reach" for the rest of your life. RYAN: Whereas if you just get out there and acknowledge this happened - and boy, if this happens, and I can laugh it off, and I can crack puns about not having a foot to stand on or really shoot myself in the foot on that one and even joke about that, you can do anything. RYAN: It's ridiculous. And I think that having a good support group, knowing the right people, talking to - whatever it takes to keep you together, if you can keep it together for yourself - you've got to realize that everyone that talks to you is almost speaking out of fear, just out of the unknown, just out of the oh my God, how did it happen? What's it like? Because I have no idea, and there's no way to explain it to them. RYAN: But what you can explain to them is that, look, this happened to me. Ryan Jerke(ph), this little idiot, shot himself. If I can make it through and I'm laughing about it and joking about it and making puns about it on Facebook, then there's not a whole lot that can stop you. The worst is over. You've got - you survived the blast, the shot, the infection (unintelligible), anything. RYAN: You've got a new lease on life. I think it's important for a lot of amputees to remember that, that, yeah, it's gone, but you're still here. And that sounds so cheesy and so chicken noodle soup for the soul I can't even put it into the right vocabulary, but it's true. You've got to keep your head up during this kind of thing. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Well, Ryan, I wish everybody could have that attitude. I wanted to turn back to Mike LaForgia. And that sort of approach, it seems to me, will lead to positive results. MIKE LAFORGIA: Yeah. So well said. I really commend the gentleman there that shared that view. You know, I want to jump in there, too, with - we've mentioned a number of times now joint support group and the importance of that. We should at least get one out there. The Amputee Coalition of America, let me just put that out. People can Google on that. I'm not sure if they're national. I think they pre - or close to national. MIKE LAFORGIA: They're a great organization. One of the things they will provide is a, of course, a support group where you can go for weekly meetings and meet others that are going through the same situation, but they also provide mentors. So I can tell you the - I provide the service to new amputees, and I can't tell you the effect I can have on a new patient walking into the hospital room and to see someone who's an amputee walking with ease, you know, into the room sort of changes your whole outlook as a new patient. So definitely recommend the Amputee Coalition of America. NEAL CONAN, HOST: And would you echo Ryan's statement about the dependence on painkillers and sleeping medication and I assume also then self-medication, even things like alcohol? MIKE LAFORGIA: Yeah, I absolutely would. I've been lucky in the, you know, in the area of phantom pain. There have been studies that show the percentage of patients with phantom pain are higher than those that are impacted with traumatic type of injuries as opposed to, in my case, where it was an elective surgery. MIKE LAFORGIA: So - but I - having used pain medication in the past when I had my foot surgery and the flap surgery, so I was on pain medication for a year myself. It absolutely affects all aspects of your life, and it's hard to have that positive attitude that Ryan shared when you're impacted or, you know, in a - dealing with daily medications. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Ryan, you're going to have interesting birthdays from now on. RYAN: You can say that again, man. You can say that again, and I'm going to have the most badass Halloween costume of anybody I know. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Thanks very much for the phone call. RYAN: (Unintelligible). NEAL CONAN, HOST: We're talking about, well, after so many people were injured in Boston, the life of amputees. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. NEAL CONAN, HOST: John Ferguson, I wanted to get back to you. How soon after surgery can prosthetics be fitted, and how do you make sure that they're fitted properly? JOHN FERGASON: Well, the time of fitting varies greatly on what the cause of amputation was. So we're not going to begin prosthetic fittings until the skin is well healed, the wounds are closed and generally until the level of pain is under control to where pressure and manipulation of that limb can be tolerated. So that can be anywhere from several weeks to, you know, maybe three or four or five weeks, even, depending on what the healing processes are. JOHN FERGASON: If you have an elective amputation and it's - everything is well controlled and the skin is in good condition, it's going to go much faster than that. If you have a trauma, especially a blast type of injury like the tragedy last week, that's going to be a good bit longer because there may be a lot of surgeries that are going to have to happen in the meantime before that limb is really even fitable, especially if the blast contained contaminants and things that can cause infection over the long term of the limb. So it can really be anywhere from a few weeks to really several months, depending on the healing capacity of their limbs. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Here's an email we have from Russ(ph) in Punta Gorda, Florida: How in the world do people afford six legs, much less one, if they've not been in the military and/or don't have insurance? NEAL CONAN, HOST: And, Mike LaForgia, what's your situation? MIKE LAFORGIA: Yeah. It - that is a challenge. We - you know, the insurance coverage differs. I know the woman spoke to that earlier. There are insurance plans out there that offer just a single, you know, leg in a lifetime, which is ridiculous. So there are folks out there that are fighting legislation and trying to improve it. MIKE LAFORGIA: The - you know, running legs and walking legs are very expensive. You know, a good running leg can run $30,000. So it is something you're not going to be able to afford on your own without a strong insurance plan. So it is something we're looking to improve over time. Some of the better prosthetic companies will help you fight insurance claims and help make the case for new equipment. So, again, that's another reason to find the right prosthetic company. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Let's see if we can get one more caller in. Edward's(ph) on the line with us from Johnson City in Tennessee. Edward, we just have about a minute left. EDWARD: Yes, sir. My name is Ed. I just want to say this, in Boston, the amputees have just (unintelligible). Mine was a - I had to get it done for me for family history of my amputee. But what I'm saying is that the support is a big shocker. The support of your family, support of my co-workers, my friends is helping me. I'm 50 days into it, and their support is the major thing you need because you can get depressed. And like he was talking about with the painkillers and stuff like that. You can, you know, you can get overwhelmed with that and stuff and go into a deep depression whereas I have support from my family and from friends and co-workers. EDWARD: And the people in Boston is now, you know, realizing, oh, God - you know, I don't have this no more. I can't, you know, and things running through their minds. Same thing happened to me. It's just - you got to just think positive because if you don't think positive, you will not move on and that's the major thing. It's got to be that way because, you know, I know my life right now is so different but I do have that support. I mean, you know, call a friend up or something say, you know, I'm down on this. Yeah. I got to do. How can I go through this? You know, he talks to me. He says, you know, I've been there. Military retired. I've seen usually what happens and things of that nature. And that's why I'm saying you have to have that. NEAL CONAN, HOST: Edward, thank you very much for the advice, and our thanks as well to Mike LaForgia and John Ferguson. This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

One week ago, two bombs rocked the finish of the Boston Marathon, killing three people and injuring more than 170 others. Some of the injured lost limbs in the explosion and now face a long and difficult recovery period. Mike LaForgia, double amputee John Fergason, chief of prosthetics, Brooke Army Medical Center

Vor einer Woche erschütterten zwei Bomben das Ziel des Boston-Marathons, töteten drei Menschen und verletzten mehr als 170 weitere. Einige der Verletzten verloren bei der Explosion Gliedmaßen und stehen nun vor einer langen und schwierigen Genesungszeit. Mike LaForgia, Doppelamputierter\nJohn Fergason, Leiter der Prothetik, Brooke Army Medical Center (Brooke Medizinisches Zentrum der Armee)

一周前，波士顿马拉松的终点遭受了两枚炸弹的袭击，造成3人死亡，170多人受伤。一些伤者在爆炸中失去了肢体，现在面临着漫长而艰难的恢复期。迈克·拉福吉亚双腿截肢。约翰·费尔加森是布鲁克陆军医疗中心假肢科科长

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Hurricane Dorian made landfall yesterday in the Bahamas as a Category 5 storm. It moved slowly across the Abaco Islands at about 5 mph. People jog faster than that. And the slow speed means the storm lingers and just drops a tremendous amount of rain. Here's Bahamian Prime Minister Dr. Hubert Minnis yesterday right as the storm hit. PRIME MINISTER HUBERT MINNIS: This is probably the most sad and worst day of my life to address the Bahamian people. And I just want to say that as a physician I've been trained to withstand many things but never anything like this. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: NPR's Greg Allen is with us now from Miami tracking the storm. Greg, good morning. It's been tough to tell where this hurricane is going to go, where it's going to hit. What can you tell us? GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: Well, it's - that's right, Rachel, it's that the track is very challenging in this because it's moving so slowly at this point. We know that it's going to, at some point, turn and move north. But right now, it's still over the Bahamas. It's moved on from Abaco, where it spent the entire day yesterday. Now it's aimed at Grand Bahama Island. The storm, as you mentioned, is almost at a standstill. The latest information suggesting it's moving about one mile per hour. The National Hurricane Center says it's going to pound Grand Bahama Island throughout today and tonight. By tomorrow, we'll be watching for it to start to move north, and that's going to be important to all of us. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Have you been able to discern what kind of damage has been left in its wake? GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: Right. Well, we've all been just kind of watching to see what kind of information comes out of Abaco and the Bahamas. Pictures and video that we've been seeing since late yesterday show catastrophic damage there. We've seen buildings where roofs are gone. Homes are just totally destroyed. Surprising - maybe we shouldn't be surprised, but a very extensive amount of flooding from this massive storm surge and rain. You know, they're talking about maybe a 2-foot storm surge and as much as - I mean 20-foot storm surge and 2 feet of rain. People took shelter at hotels, schools, the hospital and the airport there. We don't know much at this point about the damage because information is just trickling out so slowly. We should know a lot more later today. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: Earlier this morning, I spoke with the health minister for the Bahamas. His name is Dr. Duane Sands. And I asked him how prepared the Bahamas were for this hurricane. This is what he said. DUANE SANDS: I think it's impossible for any country to withstand a Category 5 storm with little displacement or devastation. And so you can be prepared, but how well prepared can one be for a catastrophic event? RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: I mean, you know this, Greg, right? The Bahamas are - they're used to storms and hurricanes. And they build their homes to withstand extremely high winds. But when the winds are over 200 miles per hour, there's really nothing you can do, is there? GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: Right. And I think the sustained winds is what they really look at and I think they were saying they were 185 miles per hour when they came ashore, but that's still not like anything we've seen in recent years here. I think in Florida, they compare it to the 1935 Labor Day hurricane. Now, in Florida, we're not expected to see those winds and landfall, but that's why the track's so important. Here, of course, South Florida has some of the toughest building codes in the world, which were kind of put together after Hurricane Andrew more than 20 years ago. In South Florida, Miami-Dade County where I live, buildings have to be able to withstand winds of 175 miles per hour. That's less, of course, than what we saw there. But they'll be doing assessments after this in the Bahamas and elsewhere about building codes. But what really goes first always is the substandard housing, and that's what we've seen in Puerto Rico after Maria and in Florida in the panhandle. So that's probably where most the damage has occurred. But we'll see what will really happen for everything else there. RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: All right. NPR's Greg Allen tracking Hurricane Dorian from Miami. It is headed towards U.S. mainland and possibly the Florida coast. Greg, thanks. We appreciate it. GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: You're welcome.

The latest on Hurricane Dorian's damage and where it's headed.

Die neuesten Informationen über die Schäden des Hurrikans Dorian und seine weitere Entwicklung.

关于多里安飓风带来的破坏及其移动方向的最新消息。

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST: In South Africa, more than a hundred people have been arrested in a series of riots that have spread across the country. And as NPR's Eyder Peralta reports, rioters have specifically been targeting foreigners from other parts of Africa. EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: Videos posted on social media showed dozens of people forcing their way into shops, many, owned by immigrants. The rioters - men, women, young and old - emerge with speakers and bedding, even toilet paper. EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: This scene repeated itself across South Africa, even in downtown Pretoria and Johannesburg. Stores were left completely bare. In some cases, they were set ablaze. In another, a group of people set fire to an informal settlement full of immigrants. Police spokesperson Mathapelo Peters told local media some stores were not owned by foreigners so they don't believe that was the reason for these attacks. MATHAPELO PETERS: This is not targeted. It's just a general opportunistic thing where they find an opportunity to do crime, and they go for it. EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: But to Dewa Mavhinga, a researcher with Human Rights Watch, there is no doubt these were targeted attacks. In fact, he says, there were weeks of social media warnings that foreigners would be targeted. At a time when the South African economy is slumping and unemployment is almost 30%, they called for African immigrants to leave South Africa. DEWA MAVHINGA: They accuse African foreign nationals of a host of problems and use them as scapegoats. EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: Mavhinga says top politicians in South Africa have blamed immigrants for the ills of the country so there has been a refusal to condemn these bouts of violence as xenophobic. And this, says Mavhinga, has led people to believe they can get away with crimes against immigrants. DEWA MAVHINGA: And they are getting away with it because there is no political will by the leadership of the police to take decisive action and bring this to a halt. EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: If the past is any indication, he says, authorities will look the other way and no major arrests will be made. Eyder Peralta, NPR News, Nairobi.

In South Africa, riots have spread across the country's most populous region. Rioters are targeting foreigners, marking an escalation in xenophobic attacks.

In Südafrika haben sich Unruhen in der bevölkerungsreichsten Region des Landes ausgebreitet. Randalierer zielen auf Ausländer ab und markieren eine Eskalation fremdenfeindlicher Angriffe.

在南非，骚乱已经蔓延到全国人口最多的地区。骚乱者以外国人为目标，标志着排外袭击的升级。

NOEL KING, HOST: All right. Officials haven't released the names of people who died in a fire on a dive boat off Southern California earlier this week, but some of the victims have already been identified by their family members. NPR's Vanessa Romo has this story from Santa Barbara. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: The day after a fire engulfed a scuba diving boat off the coast of Southern California, killing 34 people, a memorial at Santa Barbara Harbor, where the boat was based, has grown. Mourners coming to pay their respects brought sunflowers, roses, plumerias and other items to place alongside dozens of candles that have shown up overnight. On Tuesday afternoon, they were too much for Sherry McDonough, the mother of Alexandra Kurtz, one of the victims onboard Conception. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: How are you coping with all of this? What's... SHERRY MCDONOUGH: I'm not. We came out from Cincinnati. It comes in waves. Never thought I would ever have to go through this. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: McDonough arrived from Cincinnati following the disaster. She wrung her hands and pursed her lips, holding back tears as she answered reporters' questions. But she offered a small glimpse of the person her daughter, at 25, had become. Her nickname was Allie. She worked at Paramount Pictures for a couple of years, and she loved the ocean. SHERRY MCDONOUGH: She just wanted to follow her dream of the ocean and the sea and diving. And that's what she wanted to do. That's where she was happy at. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: Authorities haven't released any names of the victims. Most have yet to be pulled out of the ocean. Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown has said they range in age from teens to people in their 60s. Most came for the three-day diving trip from Santa Cruz and the San Francisco Bay Area. For some of the people visiting the memorial, their compassion extends to the living, the ones who survived. Sebastian Orth is a local artist who comes down to the harbor nearly every day. He's known a handful of people who've worked at Truth Aquatics, the company that ran the dive tour. SEBASTIAN ORTH: I feel really bad for the crew members who had to jump off and couldn't do anything. Like, that's got to be terrible for them because I'm sure they didn't want to jump off the boat and do that. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: The same kind of thoughts were on Leslie Boyle's mind, who added a bouquet of bright yellow daisies. LESLIE BOYLE: You know, the - just the survivor guilt and remorse of not being able to save those people. So those survivors are going to be dealing with this as well for the rest of their life. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: On the opposite side of the dock is another smaller memorial. This one is permanent. A brass dolphin leaps out of a large rock near a breakwater. A plaque says, in memory of our loved ones whose lives and destinies have been claimed by the sea. Laurie Moon and her partner are quietly watching the waves. LAURIE MOON: Just feeling like we wanted to kind of think about it and remember. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: The ache, she says. LAURIE MOON: It's hard to really even put into words how devastating it is. And you just want to, you know, put your feelings out there for them. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: Investigators have yet to determine why the fire started. But an NTSB official said she's certain the cause will be found, with the goal to prevent such an accident ever occurring again. VANESSA ROMO, BYLINE: Vanessa Romo, NPR News, Santa Barbara.

In California, at Santa Barbara's harbor, mourners left candles and flowers to remember the 34 people who are presumed dead following a fire on a commercial diving boat.

In Kalifornien, im Hafen von Santa Barbara, hinterließen Trauernde Kerzen und Blumen, um an die 34 Menschen zu erinnern, die nach einem Brand auf einem kommerziellen Tauchboot vermutlich tot waren.

哀悼者在加利福尼亚的圣巴巴拉港岸边放置了蜡烛和鲜花，以纪念在商业潜水艇失火事故中遇难的34人。

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: She possesses superhuman speed and strength. She can recover from almost any injury. She can change the size and shape of her body. She is Kamala Khan, also known as Ms. Marvel, a superhero. And Kevin Feige, president of Marvel Studios, says she's making big career moves. KEVIN FEIGE: Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan - Muslim, Pakistani teenager from Jersey City - is coming to the MCU. KEVIN FEIGE: It is remarkably exciting for us. You will meet her in her Disney+ series, and then you will see her in our films. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: OK, for the uninitiated, the MCU is the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Khan was the first Muslim Marvel character to headline her own comic book five years ago, and now she will be the first Muslim superhero to get her own live-action television show on Disney's new streaming service. G WILLOW WILSON: I think all of us on Team Marvel are so excited for what is happening next with this character. (Laughter) It's just - I still pinch myself. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: That's Ms. Marvel's co-creator G. Willow Wilson, who is herself a convert to Islam. She says comic book readers are more diverse than ever. G WILLOW WILSON: I think it's important for comic book readers of all backgrounds to be able to see some story that they can relate to on a really visceral level - yes, that's me; that's my life. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Ms. Marvel's costume was inspired by Pakistani dress, expanding the expectations of a superhero story. G WILLOW WILSON: You have to think about what stories have we not pulled yet. Are we retreading something that we've already said a million times or are we pushing ourselves to come up with something new? STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: Now, there is not an official release date for the show yet, but Wilson says she cannot wait to see how her character will evolve. G WILLOW WILSON: I kind of stepped back as a writer, and now I get to see the next part of her history unfold, and I get to do that as a fan. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: As do so many others.

Marvel Comics' first Muslim superhero is getting her own live-action TV show on Disney's new streaming service. Ms. Marvel creator G. Willow Wilson discusses the groundbreaking superhero.

Die erste muslimische Superheldin von Marvel Comics bekommt ihre eigene Live-Action-Fernsehserie auf Disneys neuem Streaming-Dienst. Frau Marvel-Schöpferin G. Willow Wilson spricht über die bahnbrechende Superheldin.

惊奇漫画公司的第一位穆斯林超级英雄将在迪斯尼的新流媒体服务上推出自己的真人秀电视节目。惊奇漫画的创作者G.薇璐.威尔逊女士讨论了这位开创性的超级英雄。

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: A new report from a government watchdog offers some sobering news for student borrowers. The Government Accountability Office reviewed a program that Congress created last year to forgive the student loans of public servants. But the GAO found that so far, 99% of requests for loan forgiveness have been denied. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: NPR's Cory Turner is here in the studio. Hi, Cory. CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Hey, Ari. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: First, tell us about this program and why so many people were rejected. CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Yeah, I think we need a quick history lesson first, Ari. So Congress created this program called Public Service Loan Forgiveness back in 2007. It was a promise to student borrowers - basically said, if you work in government or nonprofit, as a teacher or first responder or social worker, you make steady payments on your student loans. Then after 10 years, the Education Department would forgive whatever's left. CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Here's the problem. The first several years this program was in effect, the Ed Department and loan companies - they really did a terrible job of managing it and of explaining it to people. So borrowers were often given no advice, or sometimes they were given wrong advice to the point that, in recent years now, we're seeing thousands of borrowers come out of the woodwork and say, wait; I thought I was on track. And instead, they realize they don't even qualify for loan forgiveness. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: That was a 2007 program, but now we're talking about a program from last year. How does that relate? CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Exactly. So what we're talking about now is an effort by Congress last year when they heard all of these frustrated borrowers saying, wait; you got to help us. Congress decided to create a kind of fix, a limited expansion that relaxed some of these really rigid rules. They set aside $700 million to help pay for it. And it's this expansion, Ari, that the GAO just found, in its first year, is denying 99% of requests. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: If the whole point of the expansion was to get more of this money to more people, why has it been such a failure? CORY TURNER, BYLINE: That is the question. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: (Laughter). CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Luckily, the GAO report offers a pretty clear trail of breadcrumbs. The simple answer here is that the vast majority of the requests that are being denied - 71% - they're being denied based on a technicality. People aren't filling out the right form. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: If 71% of people aren't filling out the right form, my guess is the problem is not with the 71% of the people. CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Well, yeah. I talked to a lot of borrowers who are brass tacks people. They have budgets for their families. And they could not figure this out. They were baffled. One of the people I spoke with, Jonathan Barnes of Chicago - he told me he believed he had done everything right when he applied for this expansion. But then he got a rejection letter that said this. JONATHAN BARNES: In all capital letters, you know, I wouldn't be considered for the program at this time because it said I hadn't applied for public student loan forgiveness. It was all very confusing. But at the end of the day, it was another big, giant stop sign that I felt was underneath the bureaucracy that was unwilling to help. CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Ari, obviously, the bad news here is he's not the only one who feels this way. But the good news is that some folks - including Jonathan, potentially - may ultimately qualify for this. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Through what - more congressional action or just filling out the right form or what? CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Well, some of them by just filling out the right form, frankly. Some are going to require more congressional action. GAO made a couple of recommendations to add. Number one, they said, streamline this process. Obviously, it's not working. You need to make it simpler. They also said the Ed Department has got to improve its messaging, explaining to borrowers how it works, how you qualify and what you need to know before you go through it. And honestly, the Ed Department told me, told the GAO, look; we agree with these recommendations, and we're working hard. A number of these efforts are already underway. ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: That's NPR's Cory Turner. Thank you. CORY TURNER, BYLINE: Thank you.

A new report from the Government Accountability Office finds that Congress' temporary effort to expand and fix problems with the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program also needs fixing.

Ein neuer Bericht des Government Accountability Office kommt zu dem Schluss, dass auch die vorübergehenden Bemühungen des Kongresses, das Programm für Erlass von Darlehen für den öffentlichen Dienst erweitern und Probleme damit zu beheben, verbesserungswürdig sind.

来自政府问责办公室的一份新报告发现，国会扩大和解决公共服务贷款减免计划问题的临时努力措施也需要修改。

ALEX COHEN, host: If Lehman Brothers hiring new employees sounds odd, how about this? Barack Obama is picking a Republican to fill the post of Commerce secretary. Here to chat about that and filling the last of the new cabinet posts is NPR's senior Washington editor Ron Elving. Hi, Ron. RON ELVING: Good to be with you, Alex. ALEX COHEN, host: This choice for Commerce secretary, Judd Greg, is a Republican. That's a bit of a surprise coming from a Democrat, no? RON ELVING: A bit of a surprise, although Barack Obama has said he wants to have Republicans in his cabinet, and he's got Bob Gates at Defense, and he's got Ray Lahood already at Transportation. But here comes Judd Greg. He is a three-term senator. He's 62 a little later on this month. He is seen as a New England Republican who can work with Democrats, and he's done that, both as the ranking member on budget and earlier when he worked with Ted Kennedy on the Health Committee. RON ELVING: And you know, he was also the guy they chose to sub for Al Gore when George W. Bush was practicing his debates in 2000 because he reminded a lot of Republicans of Al Gore in his personal demeanor. ALEX COHEN, host: Might this be part of the president's effort to get more Republican votes for his economic stimulus package in the Senate than he did in the House where he received none? RON ELVING: Absolutely zero. Exactly. Yes, in a way, its part of his effort to reach out to Republicans generally, get more centrist Republicans at least to at least think about voting for the stimulus package and have something to say about it in a bargain. But you know, it was also seen as an attempt to get more votes for Democrats, generally, in the Senate by getting one Republican out and having the Democratic governor of New Hampshire appoint a Democrat to take his place. RON ELVING: Now we're told that's not what's at foot here, because the Democratic Governor John Lynch has apparently agreed not to install a Democrat in Judd Gregg's place. ALEX COHEN, host: Later today, the Senate will be voting on the nomination of Eric Holder to be attorney general. Originally, that was thought to be one of the toughest confirmation fights but didn't quite turn out that way. What happened? RON ELVING: Well, things got smoother for Eric Holder. Concern about his role in the controversial pardon back in the Clinton Administration eight years ago has abated as the process has gone on. There were only two votes against him on committee. That's out of 19 votes. And at the same time, and maybe more important, things got rougher for some other cabinet appointees who were supposed to have smooth sailing, for instance, Bill Richardson at Commerce. He withdrew his nomination and concern about an investigation back in New Mexico, Tim Geitner at Treasury got in trouble for delayed payment of taxes. He eventually got through, but there were 34 votes against him. RON ELVING: And now, Tom Daschle, the former Senate Majority Leader, is in trouble for much grander scale failure to pay taxes in a timely manner, and he was supposed to be the secretary of Health and Human Services. And now, that's somewhat in doubt. ALEX COHEN, host: And where does that stand? Today, President Obama said he still supports Daschle. So what happens from here? RON ELVING: No question the White House is standing behind him, but there is a meeting later today of the Senate Finance Committee, a closed-door meeting, where we're expecting Tom Daschle to come in and try to answer everybody's questions about the income that he had not reported and whether or not it was really his fault and whether or not he has done everything he needs to do to reassure everyone that he can take this job with no cloud over his head. ALEX COHEN, host: Ron, when we check in with you again next Monday, which of the remaining cabinet spots do you think might still be a problem? RON ELVING: My guess is they're all going to be either filled or on their way to being filled by one week from today. ALEX COHEN, host: NPR senior Washington editor, Ron Elving. Thanks. RON ELVING: Thank you, Alex.

President Obama is apparently on the cusp of nominating Sen. Judd Gregg, a New Hampshire Republican, as secretary of commerce. We explore why he made this unusual move.

Präsident Obama steht offenbar kurz vor der Ernennung von Senator Judd Gregg, einem Republikaner aus New Hampshire, zum Handelsminister. Wir erkunden, warum er diesen ungewöhnlichen Schritt gemacht hat.

奥巴马总统显然正在提名新罕布什尔州共和党参议员贾德·格雷格为商务部长。我们将探讨他为什么会做出这种不同寻常的举动。

ALEX COHEN, host: This is Day to Day. I'm Alex Cohen. MADELEINE BRAND, host: I'm Madeleine Brand. ALEX COHEN, host: First, to Cairo. Home to 18 million people, Cairo has long been considered one of the safer mega-cities in the world with one troubling exception, the sexual harassment of women. It's become increasingly physical. The authorities had been slow to address it. MADELEINE BRAND, host: Finally, last year, a first. An Egyptian court convicted a man of sexual harassment. Women's rights advocates are cautiously hopeful now. NPR's Peter Kenyon reports. PETER KENYON: Downtown Cairo by evening gives the impression of barely organized chaos, but not dangerously so unless you count crossing the street against the never-ending traffic. PETER KENYON: Cairenes have long boasted of how safe their city is. And for men, that may be true. But when a reporter starts asking women what it's like for them, it takes no time at all for the horror stories to emerge. Twenty-three-year-old Ranyu Waket(ph), a slender woman in modest dress, including an Islamic headscarf, says she was taught that the veil would protect her in public. But now she knows better. Ms. RANYU WAKET: (Through Translator) Forget it. A woman is still harassed. It doesn't matter if she is veiled or not, even if her face is covered. When I first got harassed, I was scared and would cry because it was new to me. Now, I can yell, but there isn't much more that I can do. PETER KENYON: Nearby, two teenagers slouch against a building, eyeing the passing traffic. Seventeen-year-old Mustafa says he's studying law. In what critics call typical blame-the-victim fashion, Mustafa says women get harassed because they're dressed provocatively. But a survey by the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights found more than 80 percent of Egyptian women reporting harassment regardless of how they dressed. Mustafa considers this but can't explain it. Mr. MUSTAFA: (Through Translator) Then, he's just like that. It means he's just weak in that area. PETER KENYON: Harassment isn't new here, but what shocked Egyptians were mob-related incidents that seem to explode at random from verbal harassment to full-on sexual assault. PETER KENYON: This 2006 video posted on YouTube by an Egyptian blogger shows three men arm in arm attempting to keep a mob of boys and men out of a store while terrified women huddled inside. Suddenly, a young woman lurches in and falls to the floor. It appears that her top has been ripped off completely. PETER KENYON: There were other such incidents. An amateur video showed policemen doing little or nothing. It was in this atmosphere that a young woman named Nuha Rushti(ph) was walking near her house when a passing driver reached out his window and grabbed her chest. Her attorney, Zayyid Allalaymi(ph), says instead of suffering in silence, as many Egyptian women do, Rushti flagged down another car, chased the offender down, and ignoring the offers of bystanders to beat the man up, dragged him off to a police station. Mr. ZAYYID ALLALAYMI (Lawyer): (Through Translator) She went to the police. They basically told her the same way. We'll rough him up a little and send him on his way, and she said no. And if anyone lays a hand on him, I'm going to report that person as well. I want to take my rights through the law. So they said finally, why don't we call your dad and see what he says about this. And her father came and said, no, I also want to take this through the law system. PETER KENYON: Having achieved this improbable success, Rushti and Allalaymi were faced with a criminal code that doesn't mention sexual harassment. There are, however, statutes punishing the abuse of women, including improper touching, which somewhat bizarrely carries the same penalty as sodomizing a woman. Attorneys say Rushti was fortunate to appear before a judge who was happy to make an example of the offender and sentenced the man to three years in jail. PETER KENYON: Since then, police have been arresting suspected harassers, and other cases have been brought. In an interview, First Lady Suzanne Mubarak deplored the coverage of sexual harassment, saying it didn't really happen that often. Former Member of Parliament Mona Makram Ebeid says if there is any newfound sensitivity within the government, she doubts it's towards women's rights. Ms. MONA MAKRAM EBEID (Former Member, Egyptian Parliament): Why the government, I think, has woken up is because it is affecting tourism. A lot of foreign women tourists have complained, whereas before it was never a problem to walk in the streets even, you know, at midnight in the streets of Egypt. PETER KENYON: There are now three proposed laws criminalizing sexual harassment before the Parliament, but Ebeid and others doubt they'll pass any time soon. Peter Kenyon, NPR News, Cairo.

Despite its 18 million inhabitants, Cairo has long been considered one of the safer mega-cities in the world. But there is one troubling exception — the sexual harassment of women. Once largely verbal, it has grown increasingly physical, and the authorities have been slow to address it.

Trotz seiner 18 Millionen Einwohner gilt Kairo schon lange als eine der sichersten Megastädte der Welt. Aber es gibt eine beunruhigende Ausnahme – die sexuelle Belästigung von Frauen. Einst weitgehend verbal, ist es zunehmend körperlich geworden, und die Behörden gehen nur langsam dagegen vor.

尽管有1800万居民，开罗一直被认为是世界上比较安全的特大城市之一。但有一个令人不安的例外——对女性的性骚扰。这个问题一度主要是口头上的，但现在已经变得越来越实际，而当局在解决这个问题上行动迟缓。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: A few months ago, we told you a story about a special project by Lego, the Danish toy company that makes all those plastic bricks. Lego decided to make Braille bricks to make it easier for visually impaired people to have fun with them. We have an update. This week, Lego released new audio and Braille instruction manuals for some of their sets. They're available to download from their website. The sets can be used through the computer or with different devices to interpret them. The idea came from Matthew Shifrin, a 22-year-old Lego enthusiast from Massachusetts who is blind. MATTHEW SHIFRIN: Find one dark green 2-by-6 brick. Put it knob side down vertically on the table. Then find three black 2-by-2 plates with side connectors and put these plates knob side down on top and starting from the back. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That is Shifrin reading from the new set of Braille instructions. And here's what the computer audio version sounds like. AUTOMATED VOICE: Next, we will build the escape car with flames. Find one black wagon bottom 4-by-10 with four side connectors. Put it... MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shifrin was instrumental in pushing the company to take this step. He's been building with Legos since he was 5 with the help of family and friends. But as a kid, he couldn't do it on his own because he couldn't see the graphics-based instructions. MATTHEW SHIFRIN: I just built what I could, just kind of making things up. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That changed on Shifrin's 13th birthday thanks to a family friend named Lilya Finkel. MATTHEW SHIFRIN: Lilya came over, and with her, she brought this big cardboard box and those big, fat binders, thick as a textbook. And in this big, fat box was an 843-piece Middle Eastern Lego palace. And the binder that she brought it had hand-Brailled instructions that she'd typed up on a Braille typewriter. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shifrin says it was a game-changer for him. MATTHEW SHIFRIN: For me, building a Lego set independently before this was about as likely as driving a car. And suddenly there it was. I could build these sets on my own. I realized that blind kids deserve this. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Shifrin and Finkel created more sets and launched a website to share them with others. But they couldn't keep up with the requests for more. Then Finkel was diagnosed with cancer, and the pair realized they needed help to take the idea further. So they reached out to Lego. Eventually the Danish company was interested and expanded on the original concept to include audio instructions. AUTOMATED VOICE: Open the box. This can be tricky for everyone. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: This week's release of the new audio and Braille instructions was a bittersweet moment for Matthew Shifrin, though. His family friend and partner in this project, Lilya Finkel, has since passed away. But Shifrin says her passion and creativity live on with a Lego project to be shared with others.

Lego announced a new program for downloadable audio and Braille instruction sets for the visually-impaired. One blind Lego enthusiast brought his passion project for accessibility to fruition.

Lego kündigte ein neues Programm für herunterladbare Audio- und Braille-Befehlssätze für Sehbehinderte an. Ein blinder Lego-Enthusiast hat sein Leidenschaftsprojekt für Barrierefreiheit verwirklicht.

乐高公司宣布了一项新计划，为视障人士提供可下载的音频和盲文教学设备。一位盲人乐高爱好者带来了他的热情投入的项目：无障碍实现。

AILSA CHANG, HOST: With more tariffs looming in the U.S.-China trade war, American companies are growing more pessimistic about the outlook for doing business in China. But 87% of U.S. firms with operations in China say they still haven't moved production to another country, and they have no plans to do so. That's according to a new survey from the U.S.-China Business Council. AILSA CHANG, HOST: To find out why most plan to stay put, we've called up Jay Foreman. He's the CEO of Basic Fun. It's the toy company that makes K'Nex, Lincoln Logs, Cutetitos and Pound Puppies. AILSA CHANG, HOST: Jay Foreman, welcome. JAY FOREMAN: Thank you. Glad to be here. AILSA CHANG, HOST: So I understand that currently 90% of your products are manufactured in China. Tell me why. What benefits does China offer you to base your manufacturing there? JAY FOREMAN: Sure. I mean, China offers sort of a suite of benefits, if you will, which is a highly trained labor force, a well-financed infrastructure, a great safety and quality control regimen, excellent transportation and communication points and, basically, a system of production for light industrial that's been set up over a 30-year period. AILSA CHANG, HOST: I mean, how possible would it be to replicate those conditions in, say, Southeast Asia or India? JAY FOREMAN: It would be really difficult. For example, if we went to Vietnam - which is a great country with great manufacturing - it's only 10% of the size of China. So if you just moved 5% or 10% of Chinese production into Vietnam, you're going to max out the capacity of their workforce, and that's going to increase prices, increase rents and make it more difficult for products to be produced there at the same competitive prices as we've been getting from China. JAY FOREMAN: You can go to India, which has got a huge population base, but India's infrastructure is really not set up for this. You know, we've developed protocols, at least in the toy industry in China, where we're able to make safe, high-quality product at a great price. There's no system like that set up in India. It could take 10 or 15 years to set that up. It's taken us 30 years to build our production base in China. AILSA CHANG, HOST: Yeah. JAY FOREMAN: And then bringing production back to the United States is not possible and realistic because we don't have a labor pool here. The president is closing the borders to low-skill labor. So who's going to make the product? AILSA CHANG, HOST: Now, if President Trump does go through with imposing tariffs on toy imports from China after the holiday season - let me ask you - could you afford to maintain most of your production in China still? JAY FOREMAN: Well, we really won't have a choice but to find a way to afford it. And the one way to afford it is, we will have to, at some point during the course of 2020, begin to pass the tariffs along to the consumer. AILSA CHANG, HOST: So how much of a price hike are we talking for, say, like, a Cutetito? JAY FOREMAN: I think you're thinking about everything from sneakers to bluejeans to toys to flip-flops to iPhones going up 15% to 30% in the second half of 2020. And by the way, what happens when you move it to India? Mr. Trump, the dealmaker, will make a deal with China sometime in the next six to 12 months, or somebody else will be in office and they'll make a deal, while everybody's moving their supply chain to India, and then India will become the next target for trade. AILSA CHANG, HOST: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. How has that uncertainty affected daily operations in your company now? JAY FOREMAN: Well, instead of sitting down to plan on what we think kids are going to want to buy next year, we're sitting down every day taking a look at what tariffs are going to do to affect our profitability, when they're going to hit. JAY FOREMAN: We have something called Fun Friday here every other week, and we talk about what's happening in the business and what's new. And usually, we talk about toys and holidays and all those kind of things. And now our employees are coming back to us and asking us how the tariffs are going to affect them, should they be planning on buying a car. Can they expect a bonus? And it's hard for us to give them a straight answer on that because we really don't know how this is all going to affect us. AILSA CHANG, HOST: Jay Foreman is the CEO of Basic Fun, a toy company based in Boca Raton, Fla. AILSA CHANG, HOST: Thanks very much for speaking with us today. JAY FOREMAN: You're welcome. Pleasure to be with you today.

NPR's Ailsa Chang speaks with Basic Fun CEO Jay Foreman about the effects China tariffs are having on his toy company.

Ailsa Chang von NPR spricht mit Jay Foreman, CEO von Basic Fun, über die Auswirkungen der chinesischen Zölle auf seine Spielzeugfirma.

NPR记者尔萨·张采访了Basic Fun的首席执行官杰伊·福尔曼，谈到中国关税对他的玩具公司的影响。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: We're going to turn now to Hong Kong. Today's demonstrations mark one of the most violent days since protests began 13 weeks ago - this after protesters defied a protest ban. To tell us more, we're joined now by NPR's Emily Feng, who's in Hong Kong. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Emily, thanks for joining us. EMILY FENG, BYLINE: Hello. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So what was it that led up to today's protests? EMILY FENG, BYLINE: Well, it was a highly anticipated weekend because it was marking the fifth anniversary of an event. Beijing had decided five years ago they were going to maintain control over how Hong Kong elects its direct leader, and that set off something called the Umbrella Movement, which is a pro-democracy protest that has partly inspired the current protests. And so people are going to turn out in droves for a Saturday march. EMILY FENG, BYLINE: The problem was that the police banned this Saturday protest, and then they arrested at least nine prominent activists and local politicians on Friday. Saturday morning, a mysterious cyberattack then took down the online forum that Hongkongers have been using to organize the protest. But keep in mind - the current protests are leaderless, and so the arrest didn't do anything. In fact, they further angered people, who turned out in droves anyways on Saturday to protest police brutality. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: And then tell us how the protests began. EMILY FENG, BYLINE: They began peacefully with what attendees billed as a religious rally in a downtown park. This was a thinly-disguised attempt to organize despite having this police ban. And then, after the rally, people marched west towards Beijing's government offices on Hong Kong's island. Crowds kept swelling to cover basically the entire downtown of Hong Kong. And people marched for the entire afternoon despite heavy rains and heat. They then passed by Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam's residence along the way. Here are some protesters I recorded chanting at the police who were guarding the entrances. UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting in foreign language). EMILY FENG, BYLINE: They're shouting triads and unlawful police. But everyone still walked by peacefully. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: But at some point, things did turn violent. What triggered that? It was a peaceful march by day, and then the clashes with - what happened there? EMILY FENG, BYLINE: This has been the pattern - you know, peaceful marches and then clashes at night. What happened was in late afternoon, police fired tear gas and water cannons laced with some sort of blue dye at protesters who had gathered outside government buildings. Protesters dispersed, but they simply just kept moving along. And I began following them in the early evening, and here's what I heard last night. EMILY FENG, BYLINE: They were banging on every surface they could find, barricaded roads and then set a row of stadium chairs on fire. Riot police then moved in, arresting people who then just flowed across the city. And that happened over the next few hours. Then, just before midnight, police then ambushed a metro station, where they said they were protesters, pepper-spraying everyone inside and beating people. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: OK. EMILY FENG, BYLINE: But a lot of people were just random bystanders. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Emily, thanks so much for joining us. That was NPR's Emily Feng in Hong Kong. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Emily, thank you. EMILY FENG, BYLINE: Thank you.

Another weekend of protests in Hong Kong began peacefully, but by day's end turned violent.

Ein weiteres Wochenende der Proteste in Hongkong begann friedlich, wurde aber am Ende des Tages gewalttätig.

香港又一个周末的抗议活动在平静中开始，但在一天结束时演变成暴力。

DAVID GREENE, HOST: This week, two U.S. senators, Republican Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and Democrat Chris Murphy of Connecticut, were trying to visit Russia, but they say Russia denied their visas. At the same time, prominent Russians say they are having trouble getting U.S. visas. NPR's Lucian Kim in Moscow has more on what might be playing out here. LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: Anatoly Karpov is one of the biggest names in chess, and aspiring grandmasters around the world are eager to learn from him. Here, Karpov is sharing some fundamentals in an instructional video. ANATOLY KARPOV: When we bring our king out of the center, we can make many moves with the pawns. Then we are not afraid of checks. LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: Now 68, Karpov has been travelling to the United States since the early 1970s. But this year, his U.S. visa application got stuck. Karpov was supposed to teach at a summer chess camp in New York run by his old friend and fellow grandmaster, Maxim Dlugy. MAXIM DLUGY: This is crazy. This is just crazy. I couldn't believe it was happening. LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: Karpov has taught at the academy in the past and as a former world champion is one of its main draws. MAXIM DLUGY: He did give a few lectures by Skype because we have kids come from all over the country, from Seattle to, you know, California to Texas. LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: Dlugy says he suspects the reason Karpov wasn't issued a visa was political. Karpov holds a seat in the Russian Parliament for the ruling party and has voiced support for President Vladimir Putin's foreign policy. Karpov's office in Moscow says he is unavailable for interviews. But Dlugy says Karpov told him that after applying for his visa, he was invited to the American embassy and asked what Karpov calls ridiculous questions about whether he would spread Russian propaganda while in the U.S. MAXIM DLUGY: He said, no, I'm going to teach at a chess camp (laughter). LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: U.S.-Russia relations are at their worst since the Cold War. After Washington imposed new sanctions last year, Putin ordered U.S. diplomatic staff cut by more than 700. In Moscow, the official wait time for an ordinary visitor's visa is now 10 months. In July, Russian tennis star Svetlana Kuznetsova said she had to drop out of a tournament in Washington because of visa delays. On the American side, some members of Congress say they're barred from Russia. And the Anglo-American School in Moscow has had problems securing visas for many of its teachers. As for Anatoly Karpov, the U.S. embassy has only said his application is an administrative processing and that he requires additional screening. Daniil Sergeyev, who runs a Moscow business specializing in getting U.S. visas, says that's a normal bureaucratic procedure. DANIIL SERGEYEV: (Foreign language spoken). LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: He says that while it's not exactly transparent process, it's generally predictable. For clients who want to spend New Year's Eve on Times Square, Sergeyev recommends applying for a U.S. visa in Warsaw or Vienna. Lucian Kim, NPR News, Moscow.

Two U.S. senators say the Russian government has denied them visas to travel to Russia. At the same time, prominent Russians say they are having trouble securing U.S. visas.

Zwei US-Senatoren sagen, die russische Regierung habe ihnen Visa für Reisen nach Russland verweigert. Gleichzeitig sagen prominente Russen, dass sie Probleme haben, US-Visa zu bekommen.

两名美国参议员说，俄罗斯政府拒绝发给他们前往俄罗斯的签证。与此同时，俄罗斯知名人士表示，他们在获得美国签证方面遇到了麻烦。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Now we're going to focus on the economy, especially the escalating trade war between the U.S. and China. Yesterday, China announced plans to impose $75 billion in tariffs on American goods. Now, this is retaliation for tariffs imposed by the Trump administration earlier this year. President Trump took to Twitter saying, quote, "our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China," unquote. He then went on to impose additional tariffs on Chinese goods beginning October 1. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: And this all took place on a day of extraordinary public comments by President Trump, including a tweet questioning whether the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jay Powell, whom he appointed, or Chairman Xi Jinping is, quote, "our bigger enemy" - unquote. In a minute, we're going to hear from American business owners and executives about how all this is affecting their companies. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Well, for a step-back view, we're going to try to understand all this. We've called on former Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez. He served as U.S. secretary of commerce under President George W. Bush. Before that, he had a long career at the Kellogg Company, the global food company, and he's currently the chair of Albright Stonebridge Group. That's a global business strategy firm. He was kind enough to join us in our studios in Washington, D.C. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Mr. Secretary, welcome back. CARLOS GUTIERREZ: Thank you. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Thank you for joining us. CARLOS GUTIERREZ: Thank you for having me. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: OK. So a lot happened in the span of a few hours. It's hard to keep up, and I recognize that. But - so the U.S. and China haven't engaged in this back-and-forth for a while. How significant is this latest escalation? Why do you think it's important? CARLOS GUTIERREZ: Well, this is big because - you know, this takes the trade war to a new level. And I find it very interesting the way China thought through this - is they announced their tariffs well before September 1, which is when our tariffs are set to go in place. So it seems like they're sending a message that they're going to retaliate but that they still have some time if we would like to negotiate. But it's fascinating to watch the differences. The Chinese, of course, are thinking - they're playing the long game. And I find our decisions are incredibly emotional. So I think that's the danger here - is that this trade war is being combined with a tremendous amount of emotion and antagonism. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: As I mentioned, you were secretary of commerce from 2005 to 2009 under President George W. Bush. And because of your long career in the private sector, I'm imagining you continue to have relationships with other business leaders who operated at that level. I mean, among your peers, what are they saying to you? CARLOS GUTIERREZ: A total uncertainty - they feel that they are caught in the middle of a battle that really isn't theirs, and they're the ones who are being impacted. Right now, they need a license from the U.S. government to be able to sell to China. That right there causes delays. And, of course, it causes China to go out and look for new suppliers. So most of our companies at a minimum have lost market share. And then the question is, will they ever regain that market share? MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: You know, obviously, as I said, yours is a consultancy now. Recognizing that people, you know, hire you to give them advice, can you just give us a sense of how... CARLOS GUTIERREZ: Sure. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: ...You are advising people to proceed here? CARLOS GUTIERREZ: What we're advising many companies - obviously, depending on their circumstance - is to be visible, to make sure that the right government officials know that they're still in China and that they're caught in this war between the two countries. But it's the companies being ordered by U.S. regulation to cut their business in China, to cut their supplies to Chinese companies. But now is when every company, as we say, needs their own foreign policy because U.S. government's foreign policy is not helping at all. So companies need to think strategically about geopolitics. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: So, just to tie a bow on this, U.S. and Chinese trade negotiations are supposed to begin again next month. And I don't want to ask you to predict, but is there a possibility that this is a lot of high-level posturing on both sides and that substantive negotiations could actually take place? CARLOS GUTIERREZ: Well, they could get together. I don't believe that that means substantive negotiations. I worry about that because the stock market is so anxious that if you simply say, well, the two presidents talked on the phone, the market's up 500 points. And they don't realize that the relationship is so bad and we are such antagonists - more so than we have ever been since 1979 or '73 - that this will not get solved for a long, long time. This is here to stay. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: That's Carlos Gutierrez. He's the former secretary of commerce. He is currently chair of Stonebridge Albright Group, and he was kind enough to join us in our studios in Washington, D.C., with that very sobering message. MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us. CARLOS GUTIERREZ: Thank you very much.

NPR's Michel Martin speaks to former U.S. Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez about the latest developments in the US-China trade war.

Michel Martin von NPR spricht mit dem ehemaligen US-Handelsminister Carlos Gutierrez über die neuesten Entwicklungen im Handelskrieg zwischen den USA und China.

NPR新闻的米歇尔·马丁就美中贸易战的最新发展，采访了美国前商务部长卡洛斯·古铁雷斯。

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST: Brazil's president, Jair Bolsonaro, is responding to the worldwide wave of anger over the fires raging in the Amazon. The retired army captain is turning to the military. At least 44,000 troops are being made available to tackle the fires. NPR's Philip Reeves says lots of other Brazilians are also mobilizing as demonstrators who are taking to the streets to voice their dismay about the destruction in the rainforest. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: Bolsonaro is facing a major environmental and diplomatic disaster. He's finally decided to act. BRAZIL JAIR BOLSONARO: (Speaking Portuguese). PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: "Protecting the rainforest is our duty," Bolsonaro said in a TV address. BRAZIL JAIR BOLSONARO: (Speaking Portuguese). PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: He confirmed he's authorized the use of troops. These will be used to act against people illegally starting fires to clear land in the forest and also to combat the fires themselves. Brazil has nine states in the Amazon. By law, these must file a request before armed forces can actually be deployed. Some have already done so. Bolsonaro hopes this damage-limitation operation will dampen the fires themselves and, also, the international anger that's corroding Brazil's image and could badly impact trade. Germany's Angela Merkel is the latest to join the chorus of world leaders expressing alarm. She says the Group of Seven leaders meeting in France right now cannot be silent about the destruction in the rainforest. Her view is shared here on the streets of Brazil. LAILA IGLESIAS: I am ashamed. I'm very ashamed. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: Laila Iglesias is a biology student, aged 19. LAILA IGLESIAS: It's a pity, too. I don't know why this is happening. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: She's one of several thousand people who gathered in downtown Rio de Janeiro, yesterday, to protest the fires in the Amazon and the government's response. UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting in foreign language). PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: The protesters have banners calling on the world to help and on Bolsonaro to go. There are dozens of other demonstrations like this around Brazil this weekend and in cities around the world. Bolsonaro argues that the Amazon belongs to Brazil. He believes the international community shouldn't interfere. On the contrary, says Roni Lima (ph), another protester. RONI LIMA: We need more and more pressure. If people from France, United States, from all over the world say with us, let's preserve the Amazon, we need this. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: The number of fires this year in Brazil has now risen above 76,000, according to Brazil's National Institute of Space Research, more than half of them in the Amazon. Environmentalists say most of these fires are caused by cattle ranchers and farmers illegally clearing land. Bolsonaro caused astonishment, recently, by suggesting environmental advocacy groups could be setting fires in the forest. He's now admitted some are caused by farmers. In his TV address, Bolsonaro said his government has zero tolerance for criminality and promised to crack down. BRAZIL JAIR BOLSONARO: (Speaking Portuguese). PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: He also blamed hot, dry weather, complained about fake news and indicated that he thinks the scale of the fires is being exaggerated. Many in Brazil and beyond say the main culprit is Bolsonaro himself. They say he's encouraged people to set fires by weakening environmental law enforcement and vowing to exploit the Amazon's mineral and agricultural wealth. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Foreign language spoken). PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: Among the demonstrators in Rio is Ingrid Vieira, a singer. She's angry about what's happening but not at all surprised. INGRID VIEIRA: We knew. We - the ones who always knew who Bolsonaro was. We always knew that he was going to do this to the Amazon. We knew this was going to happen. So it's really, really serious - what's going on. PHILIP REEVES, BYLINE: Philip Reeves, NPR News, Rio de Janeiro.

Under pressure in his country and abroad, Brazil's president is using military resources to fight fires in the Amazon and take action against those setting them.

Unter dem Druck des In- und Auslands setzt Brasiliens Präsident militärische Mittel ein, um Brände im Amazonas zu bekämpfen und gegen die Brandstifter vorzugehen.

在国内外的压力下，巴西总统正在动用军事资源扑灭亚马逊地区的大火，并对纵火者采取行动。