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Max Shand | CEO & Founder of Serenade | web3 talks | Sep 15th 2022 | MC: Raphael Hyde

We're going down under again with Max Shand (https://www.linkedin.com/in/max-shand-700a3ab5/) founder of Serenade.co and Forbes 30 Under 30, the eco-friendly music NFT marketplace made for real fans. Music fans can buy, sell, collect and showcase digital merchandise and collectibles in an eco-friendly format, using just their credit or debit card and deposit account. Max was employee number one at Afterpay Touch where he helped grow the business to a mega giant of over billion valuation, today's market cap $19,966,186,812.00 - holy cow, yes!!! Hosted by, Raphael Hyde https://www.linkedin.com/in/raphael-hyde-4416494/ Google web3 community lead | Google UX | web3 Angel Music by Sunset Music Inc

I'm going to be a little bit more focused on the next episode. Welcome back everyone for another episode of Web 3 Talks. My name is Ray Fjell-Hyd and today we have a special guest, Max Schand, who is the CEO and founder of Cerenade. A little background on Max before we jump into his story is before founding Cerenade, Max was the first employee at AfterTouch, which is now blocked and I think valued around $18 billion. At least that's the market cap that I looked at recently. We'll definitely want to go into that because that's a super exciting experience. After which went into management consulting and all of our whitenment. Then was a writer at, I guess currently a writer at Fairfax Media and then also a founder and buster at Strangelove Investments. Love that name. So I want to hear kind of how you came up with that too. Then of course I think your main focus which is Cerenade as you are the CEO and founder. So thanks a lot for joining us today, Max. I'm wonderful to be here. I love to meet you all. Absolutely. So why don't we just start in the beginning. When we first connected, you kind of shared a little bit of what it was like to be the first employee at AfterPay. So taking going from a startup to where it is today, that must have been like a tremendous experience. I think few people get to have. So can you walk us through what that was like? Yeah, very fortunate when I was a bit younger to mess with someone that I'd worked under when I was 15 years old and I asked this person, hey, you up to anything interesting. I've just finished school at this stage and he said he was thinking starting a FinTech. It was going to be called AfterPay. It was going to be a by now pay later product. It was going to replicate some American models in Australia. I said yes before I knew kind of really anything further. The next four years, we grew that business from the two founders and myself into 500 people. When I left and not because I left it grew and grew and grew. It was acquired at the start of this year for $29 billion by Square being Block. And it continues to be a core part of the broader block landscape of cash up and other associated products that they brought into their environment. That was a really one full experience for me seeing how you take a business from zero to a billion and formed really great relationships in that company. But when I left there, I really started thinking about what I wanted to do to really drive impact from myself professionally. I started at a stage venture capital group called StrangeLove, which is named after a Dopech mode song. I thought there was a distinct lack of synth pop inspired investment vehicles in the world. I wanted to change that I wanted to see. At the same time I joined a management consultancy, Oliver Wyman, which specializes in financial services. But whilst I was at that management consultancy, I wanted to do the things that served some of my musical passions. So I joined the board of a local Sydney based radio station and then got promoted to their BP. And I started doing a bit of music. And there's just before my days began around kind of 70s, not so many 80s, kind of UK synth pop. At the end of a year at that management consultancy, we had our first exit to venture capital group. I was getting some nice articles published. I got promoted to the BP of that radio station. And I really was not loving being a management consultant. So I thought, fuck it, I'm going to see if I can stumble across something that really feeds my passions. A few weeks after I left that job, the world ended with COVID. And all my friends and family said, Max, you absolute fool for leaving a well-paying job right before the world ended. What are you going to do? And I thought, you know, I'm going to kind of come across something that is going to really excite me. And a few weeks later I was riding a piece for the Sydney Morning Herald on how musicians had been affected by the early days of COVID. And it was through that piece that I interviewed artists for the first time in Australia. And they told me things like, if we don't play live for a month, we won't be able to make rent. And that just blew my mind, the disparity between the financial reality of an artist and how fans see them. And I thought, then, here's my opportunity to combine my love of music with my love of business and to create new ways to fund an artist's career. Surely there's a way to enable artists to create things which they could directly sell to fans, which compensate them fairly. That was really the mission statement about three years ago now, which was helping artists create new revenue streams through deep fan experiences. That mission is guided me through for the last three years. I started off building a platform that tried to help artists create personalized musical performances for their fans. We worked with around 200 Australian artists. That platform actually got sold a few months ago to an Australian aquaharan. But six months after starting that business, I started getting feedback from artists that they wanted to create one thing that could be sold to many people. They wanted those many people to be able to exchange those things and create a petrol revenue stream. They wanted to do things that gave them further creative license. And they wanted to understand the identity of their super fans on mass so that they could really deliver on the idea of having a thousand true fans and that kind of funding your existence. And it was about that time when I was getting on that feedback and I came across NFTs as a new technology. And I thought, hey, if I could simplify and demystify this technology and make an environmentally sustainable, I'll be able to make a real difference for artists who will find this technology really exciting. And that was the first goal of serenade version two, the NFT platform, which launched towards the end of last year, the last 12 to 18 months has been a process of not just simplifying demystifying the technology such that any mainstream fan can use it. But it's been simplifying the products that we create because ultimately a music fan doesn't care about tech. They care about great products. They give them a deeper sense of engagement with music and artistry. And so we recently released a new music format and this is getting rather musicy and technical. So I apologize. No problem. No problem. No problem. But the number one and most important thing in an artist's career is how they position on the charts. And so you often hear an artist proudly boasting of being in the top 10, the top 40. Now that's because being in the charts unlocks further commercial opportunities for you as an artist, you get play listed on Spotify. You get the opportunity to play at a festival. You get played on radio. Now that's all dictated by that central chart ranking. And we built a NFT based music format that goes directly onto the charts, same charts as vinyl CDs and cassettes. And that's put us in really good stead to serve artists, particularly in the UK and Australia where we have our current focus, but we're working closely with Bill Bord in the States right now to have the format chart accredited. Your neck of the woods, which will mean I will be able to start spending a little bit more time in the States. That's interesting. So I guess that's a very broad overview of the entirety of my professional life. And where we are now is an exciting place where we feel as if we are the only platform that are serving mainstream music fans because it really doesn't take any technical knowledge to participate. A story that I always use is a week after we launched the platform in September of last year. I got a call from my 85 year old Hungarian grandmother who said, Max, I'd love to buy an NFT on serenade. I don't really know what an NFT is, but can you help me do it? The cousins coming back from London to Sydney did love one. And I said, Nana, if you're able to make a purchase without my guidance, I'm going to be able to present to Google in 12 months time and tell them that my 85 year old Hungarian grandmother can't send an email, can buy an NFT on serenade. And she did. It might have taken her a bit longer than the next fan over, but she did. And that's because the technology we built really simple, you don't need to arrive with a wallet, we trade one on your behalf. You don't need to use crypto, you can use a debit or credit card or crypto. And then if you want to transfer your NFT out of serenade, you just do that by our free transfer mechanism. We really simplify it so that the core user has served the mainstream fan, but we served the broader web3 community as well. So that, I guess, is the overview. Raf? Yeah, that's awesome. I love hearing the origin story, especially all the, all the exposure you had to your prior jobs and roles and companies. I think that's like prepared you perfectly for what you're doing now. So I want to dig deeper into that because you talked about an artist's, well, being on the charts is super important as an artist. And I've talked to a lot of projects that are trying to solve this problem, not the chart problem, but the music NFT trying to monetize their content. How did you guys like decide to focus on the charting capability? Because that actually makes so much sense. It would make sense for that to be natively baked into the NFT itself. Yeah, so we've been on the same journey as I'm sure various other platforms that you've spoken to potentially been hosted in this very format. The thing that has always distinguished us is how integrated we'd like to be with the traditional music industry. How much we empathize with it, seek to understand it and build solutions within it rather than against it. And I think that's really important to know a one-liner that I always use is that we're in a navel and not a disruptor. We're just trying to make existing processes a bit better, but when seeking to change or uphaul. And so we kept on hearing from artists' teams that everything they do around an album campaign, which is kind of how all kind of music campaigns structured is with a goal of maximizing chart placement. We kept on hearing this. And so we wanted originally when we were creating simple digital collectibles, so NFTs as you might see them on other platforms. They kept on getting pushed by the wayside because they weren't as strategically aligned to the core strategic goal of the artist being a chart place. And so we thought if we traded a standardized product that could be chart placed, we'd be able to get into the main lane of an artist's campaign strategy, but better yet we'd be able to mirror the experience of walking into a record store as a fan, where you've got one product type and a fan knows what that product is. And then they just choose between artists that they care about. So kind of to that point, that was a solution around removing choice paralysis. So instead of offering fans a thousand things and then hoping that because there's so much and offer they can all love something, we now offer one thing, we do it really well. And we hope that because of that, a fan keeps on coming back. Gacha, I really like that. And I'm assuming, well, what does it look like in the background when you want to enable the sort of capability? Do you have to be integrated with charts specifically, like the charting companies in the way they interact with this kind of data? I'm unfamiliar with what that relationship looks like. Yeah, so each chart body around the world. So there's one for each territory, Australia being a territory, the UK being a territory, has a chart administration company. They each have their own standards for what counts as a chart accredited format. Now that changes if it's an album, if it's an EP, if it's a single, you have to essentially share information data on a regular basis with those bodies to kind of prove that you're getting the right type of kind of purchase information. Mm-hmm. Gacha, okay. And is that been the way that the industry measures like value for a long time? Yes, for since, I guess, the 50s with the dawn of popular music. Gacha, giving the pen a change. With the streaming? Yeah, also streaming is counted in that chart. And so kind of the way that it's calculated is there's this concept of an album unit. And an album unit is equivalent to 1,000 streams. One vinyl sale is one album unit. One sale of a serenade digital pressing is one album unit. And so we have very preferential rates relative to streams. The talk of the industry is not shifting away from kind of a listening based chart, but adding on a value based chart because there are lots of artists who have deep fan bases who have a high willingness to pay. And isn't that a better metric for really assessing the kind of worthiness of an artist? Now for us, we've recognized that stuff doesn't move that quickly in the music industry. So better fit within it than challenge how it operates. And so we'll move as it moves. But right now we're just excited to integrate deeply within it, understand it, and help artists who want to succeed within those structures. I really agree with your approach of like moving with the industry. And I think often in technology, we're always looking for that like 10X improvement, completely disrupt everything. And I think this makes a lot of sense, at least to a lot of the people I've spoken to in the music business and how they describe the same problem. How it's like it's very stagnant, it's kind of slow, it's owned by a couple of superpowers. And they're really not willing to radically change the way they do things. So I think that makes a ton of sense. How are you guys, how is it for you culturally operating these different countries? And I'm assuming that the businesses might be run a little bit differently. How have you been there, beginning that? Yeah, so I guess culturally as a team, we're based between Sydney and London. And so the bulk of our team is based in Sydney. And so that's our engineering team operations, marketing, Australian partnerships, product. In the UK and London we've opened up a business development office, which kind of works quite closely with the Australian business. We kind of work at odd hours to make work across different time zones, which I'm sure you all do as well. But I think we're a small team where 25 people were bound by a common passion to see this product work on a global scale. And when you have that motivation, it's energizing. And so I think we are, there's a really wonderful culture in the team. As we scale, that will certainly be challenging primarily because of just the number of territories we want to cover, the time zones that that means we have to work within and the process that you have to set up to achieve that. But I think culturally beyond, like in terms of how do we serve different cultures with an authenticity with empathy. We stuck to a pretty common culture today. So we've worked in Australia, we've worked in the UK, we've worked in the US. There's transferable kind of cultural norms between these territories, kind of within reason. As we move more into the EU, as we move into Asia, there'll be different kind of cultural behaviours that will have to understand and bring into the platform. But that will just be another challenge amongst many challenges. I look forward to it because I guess the joy of running a business and working with artists who are based all around the world, is that I personally get to learn about these different cultures and get to celebrate different cultural output. Gotcha. And so right now, one thing I hear a lot about are a lot from art and music artists that are considering NFTs or maybe web theory based music projects is that it's really hard to onboard users. And it's really difficult to educate them around the benefits. So how do you navigate that? Because it seems like a major point of friction. Granted, I love the story of your grandmother buying NFTs. I think that's super cool. So it proves that you guys have built something that's frictionless. But why don't we go into that a little bit? Yeah, I wish it was frictionless. There's always friction in a new product. And so we've certainly removed technical friction because it is from a product perspective very seamless to make a purchase. And now we've removed product friction from a familiarity with the format. So we've done a lot of work to make our digital pressing product not feel like a NFT, just feel like another music format. So fans are willing to consume it in the same way that they purchase a vinyl cassette, a vinyl cassette, and that's been a big focus of ours. We learned through lots of testing that what fans like kind of products that tell a greater story about the music, they don't care about tech. Obviously, some fans care about tech, but that's kind of external to their love about artists. And so by talking about a digital pressing, by talking about the content that a fan receives in the digital pressing, because with every digital pressing you receive full-length music, but you also receive bonus rewards that could be exclusive music or kind of unseen photography or video clips, voice notes. It becomes just an exciting experience like any other. And so that has really helped with the communication of these products. So we recently did a big release with the rock band Muse. And by calling it a digital pressing, we had 10x demand, then we could facilitate, and we told that product out in 25 minutes. So that was just a thousand units. Done other kind of small bands over the last couple of weeks who sell well because they're just selling a new music format. I think a lot of people who are selling NFTs have to fight again, or selling music NFTs, have to fight against the bad branding associated with NFTs, which is, this is an investment tool. This is a scam. This is kind of just a high-face product has no underlying value. When you move away from that acronym, you can start redefining a format in your own way and that's what we've seen working so far. Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. So do you want to show us, Sarah? I'd love to. I'd love to show you Sarah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to share your screen? I think we'd love to see what it looks like and how it works. We've got about a thousand tabs open and that's very embarrassing. Let me just clarify. No problem. You're in good company. I think everyone here is probably dealing with the same problem. And where are you calling in from today? I'm in London. Thanks. So can you see my screen, guys? Coming through. Yes. Wonderful. So this is the homepage of Sternade. We've got on the right just a hero section of some of our latest releases, some explanatory material outlining that what you do on Sternade is you collect records online. It's a new way to collect records. Some of our recent releases, again, a bit more explanation around why you're buying these things. Infographic in the middle. That seems to take a lot of load. There it is. And then just some top artists that we've worked with recently and institutions like the Brita Awards. I'll take you into Muse because who doesn't love Muse? Yeah. Congrats, by the way. That seems like a huge milestone. I was stoked for you guys when I saw that press release. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It's going very well and it's unlocking some very, very exciting things for next year and obviously later this year. So on the right you've got kind of track listing and you've got all these bonus rewards. So for Muse, they just are allowed for people who own this pressing to download premium audio files but other artists that we've worked with since are doing things like voice notes, different album artwork, different backstage photography, different songs. Now a really cool thing here is every one of the first thousand people to make a purchase of this digital pressing has their name listed in the first owner's module. And I can click into any one of these fans and I can learn a little bit more about them. And the idea is that over time I as a purchaser of this product get to familiarize myself with other owners of the product and I get to build this small community around the music that I love. Obviously now this very early stage of business we've only kind of sold a handful of these things and so it's a very small group of people that exist around. This product but over time that will obviously change. There's an opportunity for the artists to just talk a little bit about the product and some kind of credence about that and obviously I can play the audio as you'd expect. So that's really the core experience. Let's embarrass me for a little bit and show you my profile. And so this is me at my old chairhouse in Sydney Australia, my old favorite bar. And you can see this is my collection of things that I've shamelessly purchased from my own platform over the past 12 months for more different artists and partners. I can click into each one of these things and I can kind of have the experience of listening or viewing in the way that the original artist has created. That's so cool. I love the design, by the way. It looks really nice. Thank you. I'm so that's the platform. I'm over the real innovation for us has been this digital pressing format, this real simplified product which was only launched a couple of weeks ago and it has been the thing that is taking us to really great heights. So I'm excited for you to see what pops up over the coming months, the conversations that we have underway are really exciting. But what speaks better than words is action and so I'm excited for you to see great product on the site. That's all to come. That's exciting. And if people just go to serenade.com, they'll be able to check that out..co..co. Cool. The owner of.com wanted me to spend $10 million on purchasing that and I thought I'd rather spend 50 on.co. I love it. Nice. And so tell us about what it's like for an artist to approach you guys or you approach an artist and they may want to list their music there. How does that go? Yeah. So artists, yeah, approach us right now. It's quite a manual process to create product but in about a month's time it'll be completely self-service so you'll be able to create your impressing without serenade team, man really guiding you. You contact us, you say you want to release an album, an EP or a single and we just walk you through a request of different assets you need to pull together like tracks, like the audio, I'd like the cover art. Then we upload it through our system and schedule release date and then on that release date an artist just announces it to their fans so they hear about it and the product sells. Wow. Okay, so that seems pretty straightforward. I was thinking there'd be some more heavy lifting. And it is all very simple. And so once they have that step completed and they are like they'll have like a release and I'm guessing there's some like PR involved with that and then once they once they I guess start selling, can users take that I guess those NFTs and play that music elsewhere? Like how can I consume this in other places? So you can take your NFT wherever there's a kind of Web 3 enabled wallet and then you can play the music in that location. But then also some artists are allowing for the music that they have contained in their NFTs to be downloaded as well. So for some of our kind of users who still use iTunes or still use kind of flat media libraries, you can use that as well. Gotcha. Okay, so then I'm imagining like a future where I can be able to download these songs and there's like integration with Spotify or something like what do you what is the future look like when music formats are different and people are usually I feel like the mainstream is consuming stuff on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, etc. Yeah, so the vision for serenade is not kind of creating a better way of listening to music than Spotify because we think Spotify is just wonderful. The vision for serenade is a better way of owning music. So it's a better way of collecting and feeling a deeper sense of connection to the music and the people around the music. And so there are opportunities to integrate with other kind of audio based products like a Spotify to show really what you own to give you a greater sense of connection to music where you're already streaming it. And so those are really exciting conversations that we're having, but yeah, over time it's really how can we kind of improve the experience layer of what we're doing to connect people because really that's the joy of kind of our mission and that when you walk into a record store today and you buy a record it's quite a solitary experience. But how great would it be when you buy that record in a record store that you're instantly connected to other people who love that and that gives you a bit of connection online? Gotcha. This is cool. It's such a material like relationship with the old way of interacting with albums and music. So that's pretty neat. So what's coming next? Because I feel like what you guys have built is like all the building blocks are there now. And now you obviously have landed some big artists and so then maybe there's some scaling. What are you working on next? Yes, there's a huge amount of scaling that needs to be done. So as I said, we're not even self-service yet. So we want to be able to instead of serving one artist a week, so kind of ten artists a day. That's a big goal for us. That takes self-service technology. It takes a lot of just scaling the existing infrastructure. It's also just a continued focus on building for the fan. We've had to do a lot of work to unlock supply, being kind of unlocking kind of our way of working within the music industry. But now the great joy is that we get to turn our attention to making stuff really wonderful for fans. And so as you saw on that Muse Digital Pressing page, there's that rewards feature. Now how great would it be if that was much fun? And I'm locking experience that gave you exclusive insight into a portal that gave you all this wonderful content. Now when you go into a fan's profile, how great would it be if you could really listen to their library, listen to their collection in the same way that when you walk over to a friend's house on the said they neither listen to their echo collection. There are these ways that we can improve the existing kind of products that we've got. So everything that we're working on is not new. It's simply improving what we have set up. Because as you said, we've got the building blocks there, the infrastructure is there. There's just so much room for improvements within it. That's exciting. And then how do you guys make money? So we make money within free sale and free sale. So there's a revenue split on the primary sale. So the initial purchase by a fan. And then whenever a fan sells to another fan, we generate and perpetuate it from that. Gotcha. And is the artist determined kind of what those cuts are? How are those things defined? Yeah, so it's a fixed rate for every artist and partner on the planet. And so how big or small you are, it's kind of a fixed split on primary and secondary. And then we also support with kind of having, and all your other rights holders paid because a big challenge in music industry is no one person owns anything. Lots of people do. And we stream like that in the back end. Gotcha. Okay, that's really cool. I love that. I love that. It's kind of fair across the board. And then for artists that are like really up and coming, maybe they don't really have a following yet. Is that a market you guys are looking at? So at the moment, we're not really a place to create a fan base. We're a place to direct your small fan base or your large fan base. It's what we've got because we're a really good kind of conversion point to really get a sale out of out of a suit fan. But it doesn't take a huge number of fans to sell 50 digital pressings. And so do we get to get this comment? And so the, yeah, the joy of it is that if you do have a small but dedicated fan base, you can convert them well on, on serenade. But you really do need to come with a bit of an audience. Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. So it is the merge day. So I figured we'll talk about that a little bit. We chatted before the call started about this. But kind of how are you receiving this? And I think you mentioned it's not really changing anything for you guys, but maybe what's going on in your head around the merge? Yeah. So it's, it's trying obviously where we're very, essentially tied to the current state of, of Ethereum, however, where a product built from Managing Fans, where a product built to abstract away from lots of the technology that we use. And so by kind of continually kind of working with Polygon, all we get to say is that not only is Polygon environmentally sustainable, but Ethereum now is environmentally sustainable. So our contribution to sustainability is only better. Lots of our fans don't know the first thing about crypto, about blockchain. They're really just buying interesting collectibles and having an interesting musical experience that we facilitate. And so it's not particularly relevant. It just allows us to be more confident in talking about our sustainability metrics. Gotcha. And so you mentioned Polygon, so it sounds like that's the, that's the change you guys are built on. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. Are there any other partners or tools that you guys work with? So right now we just work with Polygon. Again, we needed to solve for affordability because we pay gas fees on behalf of both artists and bands, so that it is safe for us. And we need it to be environmentally sustainable because it's prerequisite of serving the artists that we want to serve. But then other than that, we don't need to think of all the creative possibilities offered by different blockchains. So different blockchains have offered us, money have offered us kind of all these kind of wonderful things to integrate with them. But right now we need to think about fans and all fans care about the great musical experiences. And so we just need to create them. Gotcha. Well, I love your passion around that. I think that's super, super important. So as you guys think about scaling, often as Google is largely a platform business, what do you think Google's role is in the future of Web 3? There's no wrong answers here. Appreciate it. You're the ones to answer this question. That's where I become spectacular. What is Google really afraid to have it spent a second thinking about it when? Other significant platforms have announced that they have rolled out Web 3 related solutions. The ones that excite me when they just create a more mainstream way to display and champion NFTs. And so being able to present NFTs on Facebook and Instagram is a wonderful mainstream validation of what we're doing, the increasing work on Spotify to link music NFTs is also wonderful mainstream validation of what we're doing. What's the equivalent on Google? I don't know. Some version of a kind of search feature that kind of presents prominent NFTs. I'm not so sure. Again, haven't thought about it at all. But I talk when I'm asked a question and here's a bit of a random way for you. No worries, Max. I think that makes sense. How about infrastructure and analytics? Are any of those things problems for you guys that you would need help with? So I guess from an infrastructure perspective, G-Main, MoVA, kind of, set of storage. Could be storage. Yeah, could be where you guys run your compute. I guess I don't know what your backend stack is. Yeah. Also, there are various bits of our overall tech sector. I don't know how involved who could be in. But I guess lots about assets are stored in a decentralized storage environment called IPFS, which is wonderful, but has its own limitations. So those limitations being, it is truly decentralized. And that presents some challenges for industries that rely on a degree of centralization. And so there's certainly an opportunity there if Google had to play in the same way that their opportunities within AWS for them to create more palatable solutions for Web3. It was infrastructure and analytics. Yeah, over time, there will be more interesting ways to track the forwards of NFTs and see how they pass through the Web and pass through different users. The kind of interconnected data web of Google could do a wonderful job of, I guess, attach wallets and information around wallets to actual kind of people and data to understand the actual, more holistic view of, and a consumer behavior. Yeah, again, this is me talking without any real clarity around. And that point, what we do is we build musical experiences using NFTs. We do it very simply. I often get asked for my feedback. I said, I said, I'll have some metaverse panels, for instance. And I said, there's huge opportunity in metaverse, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. I think there's often a tendency to expect people who do one thing to be a broader representative of a large technical landscape. And I think that's quite challenging for those people, because often they don't have that expertise that stretches so broadly. And so what I've tried to do over the last 18 months is become a master of a very specific kind of focused area. And hopefully that comes through in the passion around music NFTs and then standing up really how we create a real market around them that serves two types of stakeholders, artists and fans, for the third music industry. Well, Max, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Great to see you again, as always. If you're in the US, let us know. We'd love to host you. Otherwise, we hope to see you again. Thank you. And guys, it was lovely speaking to all, obviously, I know a few questions, but I'll put my 20 here. If anyone wants to message me, please do. Thanks for the questions and Raphael. Thank you very much. Absolutely. Wish you the best of luck and I'm sure we'll be in touch. Thanks, everybody else. Have a great day and we'll see you tomorrow at the Merge event.

[{"start": 0.0, "end": 18.56, "text": " I'm going to be a little bit more focused on the next episode."}, {"start": 18.56, "end": 22.56, "text": " Welcome back everyone for another episode of Web 3 Talks."}, {"start": 22.56, "end": 29.080000000000002, "text": " My name is Ray Fjell-Hyd and today we have a special guest, Max Schand, who is the CEO"}, {"start": 29.08, "end": 31.24, "text": " and founder of Cerenade."}, {"start": 31.24, "end": 38.44, "text": " A little background on Max before we jump into his story is before founding Cerenade, Max"}, {"start": 38.44, "end": 44.08, "text": " was the first employee at AfterTouch, which is now blocked and I think valued around $18"}, {"start": 44.08, "end": 45.08, "text": " billion."}, {"start": 45.08, "end": 48.04, "text": " At least that's the market cap that I looked at recently."}, {"start": 48.04, "end": 52.64, "text": " We'll definitely want to go into that because that's a super exciting experience."}, {"start": 52.64, "end": 57.32, "text": " After which went into management consulting and all of our whitenment."}, {"start": 57.32, "end": 63.32, "text": " Then was a writer at, I guess currently a writer at Fairfax Media and then also a founder"}, {"start": 63.32, "end": 65.92, "text": " and buster at Strangelove Investments."}, {"start": 65.92, "end": 66.92, "text": " Love that name."}, {"start": 66.92, "end": 69.64, "text": " So I want to hear kind of how you came up with that too."}, {"start": 69.64, "end": 77.8, "text": " Then of course I think your main focus which is Cerenade as you are the CEO and founder."}, {"start": 77.8, "end": 80.6, "text": " So thanks a lot for joining us today, Max."}, {"start": 80.6, "end": 82.32, "text": " I'm wonderful to be here."}, {"start": 82.32, "end": 84.12, "text": " I love to meet you all."}, {"start": 84.12, "end": 85.12, "text": " Absolutely."}, {"start": 85.12, "end": 88.12, "text": " So why don't we just start in the beginning."}, {"start": 88.12, "end": 92.76, "text": " When we first connected, you kind of shared a little bit of what it was like to be the"}, {"start": 92.76, "end": 94.76, "text": " first employee at AfterPay."}, {"start": 94.76, "end": 99.96000000000001, "text": " So taking going from a startup to where it is today, that must have been like a tremendous"}, {"start": 99.96000000000001, "end": 100.96000000000001, "text": " experience."}, {"start": 100.96000000000001, "end": 102.84, "text": " I think few people get to have."}, {"start": 102.84, "end": 104.96000000000001, "text": " So can you walk us through what that was like?"}, {"start": 104.96000000000001, "end": 111.80000000000001, "text": " Yeah, very fortunate when I was a bit younger to mess with someone that I'd worked under"}, {"start": 111.8, "end": 118.67999999999999, "text": " when I was 15 years old and I asked this person, hey, you up to anything interesting."}, {"start": 118.67999999999999, "end": 124.44, "text": " I've just finished school at this stage and he said he was thinking starting a FinTech."}, {"start": 124.44, "end": 127.28, "text": " It was going to be called AfterPay."}, {"start": 127.28, "end": 129.48, "text": " It was going to be a by now pay later product."}, {"start": 129.48, "end": 134.28, "text": " It was going to replicate some American models in Australia."}, {"start": 134.28, "end": 137.64, "text": " I said yes before I knew kind of really anything further."}, {"start": 137.64, "end": 149.32, "text": " The next four years, we grew that business from the two founders and myself into 500 people."}, {"start": 149.32, "end": 156.07999999999998, "text": " When I left and not because I left it grew and grew and grew."}, {"start": 156.07999999999998, "end": 167.04, "text": " It was acquired at the start of this year for $29 billion by Square being Block."}, {"start": 167.04, "end": 173.64, "text": " And it continues to be a core part of the broader block landscape of cash up and other"}, {"start": 173.64, "end": 177.07999999999998, "text": " associated products that they brought into their environment."}, {"start": 177.07999999999998, "end": 182.32, "text": " That was a really one full experience for me seeing how you take a business from zero"}, {"start": 182.32, "end": 187.88, "text": " to a billion and formed really great relationships in that company."}, {"start": 187.88, "end": 192.35999999999999, "text": " But when I left there, I really started thinking about what I wanted to do to really drive"}, {"start": 192.35999999999999, "end": 196.04, "text": " impact from myself professionally."}, {"start": 196.04, "end": 200.64, "text": " I started at a stage venture capital group called StrangeLove, which is named after a"}, {"start": 200.64, "end": 201.95999999999998, "text": " Dopech mode song."}, {"start": 201.95999999999998, "end": 206.56, "text": " I thought there was a distinct lack of synth pop inspired investment vehicles in the"}, {"start": 206.56, "end": 207.56, "text": " world."}, {"start": 207.56, "end": 211.84, "text": " I wanted to change that I wanted to see."}, {"start": 211.84, "end": 216.28, "text": " At the same time I joined a management consultancy, Oliver Wyman, which specializes in financial"}, {"start": 216.28, "end": 217.28, "text": " services."}, {"start": 217.28, "end": 223.28, "text": " But whilst I was at that management consultancy, I wanted to do the things that served some"}, {"start": 223.28, "end": 224.44, "text": " of my musical passions."}, {"start": 224.44, "end": 229.24, "text": " So I joined the board of a local Sydney based radio station and then got promoted to their"}, {"start": 229.24, "end": 230.24, "text": " BP."}, {"start": 230.24, "end": 231.24, "text": " And I started doing a bit of music."}, {"start": 231.24, "end": 237.68, "text": " And there's just before my days began around kind of 70s, not so many 80s, kind of UK synth"}, {"start": 237.68, "end": 238.68, "text": " pop."}, {"start": 238.68, "end": 244.12, "text": " At the end of a year at that management consultancy, we had our first exit to venture capital group."}, {"start": 244.12, "end": 246.16, "text": " I was getting some nice articles published."}, {"start": 246.16, "end": 249.04, "text": " I got promoted to the BP of that radio station."}, {"start": 249.04, "end": 251.92, "text": " And I really was not loving being a management consultant."}, {"start": 251.92, "end": 257.76, "text": " So I thought, fuck it, I'm going to see if I can stumble across something that really"}, {"start": 257.76, "end": 259.12, "text": " feeds my passions."}, {"start": 259.12, "end": 264.28, "text": " A few weeks after I left that job, the world ended with COVID."}, {"start": 264.28, "end": 268.03999999999996, "text": " And all my friends and family said, Max, you absolute fool for leaving a well-paying"}, {"start": 268.03999999999996, "end": 269.84, "text": " job right before the world ended."}, {"start": 269.84, "end": 271.52, "text": " What are you going to do?"}, {"start": 271.52, "end": 275.15999999999997, "text": " And I thought, you know, I'm going to kind of come across something that is going to"}, {"start": 275.15999999999997, "end": 276.15999999999997, "text": " really excite me."}, {"start": 276.15999999999997, "end": 280.36, "text": " And a few weeks later I was riding a piece for the Sydney Morning Herald on how musicians"}, {"start": 280.36, "end": 283.36, "text": " had been affected by the early days of COVID."}, {"start": 283.36, "end": 288.36, "text": " And it was through that piece that I interviewed artists for the first time in Australia."}, {"start": 288.36, "end": 292.0, "text": " And they told me things like, if we don't play live for a month, we won't be able to make"}, {"start": 292.0, "end": 293.0, "text": " rent."}, {"start": 293.0, "end": 297.6, "text": " And that just blew my mind, the disparity between the financial reality of an artist and"}, {"start": 297.6, "end": 299.76, "text": " how fans see them."}, {"start": 299.76, "end": 305.16, "text": " And I thought, then, here's my opportunity to combine my love of music with my love of"}, {"start": 305.16, "end": 310.56, "text": " business and to create new ways to fund an artist's career."}, {"start": 310.56, "end": 314.96000000000004, "text": " Surely there's a way to enable artists to create things which they could directly sell"}, {"start": 314.96000000000004, "end": 317.84000000000003, "text": " to fans, which compensate them fairly."}, {"start": 317.84000000000003, "end": 322.96000000000004, "text": " That was really the mission statement about three years ago now, which was helping artists"}, {"start": 322.96000000000004, "end": 326.24, "text": " create new revenue streams through deep fan experiences."}, {"start": 326.24, "end": 329.36, "text": " That mission is guided me through for the last three years."}, {"start": 329.36, "end": 335.76, "text": " I started off building a platform that tried to help artists create personalized musical"}, {"start": 335.76, "end": 339.16, "text": " performances for their fans."}, {"start": 339.16, "end": 342.44, "text": " We worked with around 200 Australian artists."}, {"start": 342.44, "end": 348.36, "text": " That platform actually got sold a few months ago to an Australian aquaharan."}, {"start": 348.36, "end": 353.2, "text": " But six months after starting that business, I started getting feedback from artists that"}, {"start": 353.2, "end": 356.96000000000004, "text": " they wanted to create one thing that could be sold to many people."}, {"start": 356.96, "end": 363.03999999999996, "text": " They wanted those many people to be able to exchange those things and create a petrol revenue"}, {"start": 363.03999999999996, "end": 364.35999999999996, "text": " stream."}, {"start": 364.35999999999996, "end": 369.96, "text": " They wanted to do things that gave them further creative license."}, {"start": 369.96, "end": 375.28, "text": " And they wanted to understand the identity of their super fans on mass so that they could"}, {"start": 375.28, "end": 383.56, "text": " really deliver on the idea of having a thousand true fans and that kind of funding your existence."}, {"start": 383.56, "end": 388.48, "text": " And it was about that time when I was getting on that feedback and I came across NFTs as a new"}, {"start": 388.48, "end": 389.48, "text": " technology."}, {"start": 389.48, "end": 395.04, "text": " And I thought, hey, if I could simplify and demystify this technology and make an environmentally"}, {"start": 395.04, "end": 400.88, "text": " sustainable, I'll be able to make a real difference for artists who will find this technology"}, {"start": 400.88, "end": 402.56, "text": " really exciting."}, {"start": 402.56, "end": 409.44, "text": " And that was the first goal of serenade version two, the NFT platform, which launched"}, {"start": 409.44, "end": 417.16, "text": " towards the end of last year, the last 12 to 18 months has been a process of not just"}, {"start": 417.16, "end": 421.96, "text": " simplifying demystifying the technology such that any mainstream fan can use it."}, {"start": 421.96, "end": 426.4, "text": " But it's been simplifying the products that we create because ultimately a music fan"}, {"start": 426.4, "end": 427.4, "text": " doesn't care about tech."}, {"start": 427.4, "end": 428.4, "text": " They care about great products."}, {"start": 428.4, "end": 434.44, "text": " They give them a deeper sense of engagement with music and artistry."}, {"start": 434.44, "end": 440.84, "text": " And so we recently released a new music format and this is getting rather musicy and technical."}, {"start": 440.84, "end": 441.84, "text": " So I apologize."}, {"start": 441.84, "end": 442.84, "text": " No problem."}, {"start": 442.84, "end": 443.84, "text": " No problem."}, {"start": 443.84, "end": 444.84, "text": " No problem."}, {"start": 444.84, "end": 451.28, "text": " But the number one and most important thing in an artist's career is how they position"}, {"start": 451.28, "end": 453.56, "text": " on the charts."}, {"start": 453.56, "end": 459.76, "text": " And so you often hear an artist proudly boasting of being in the top 10, the top 40."}, {"start": 459.76, "end": 463.8, "text": " Now that's because being in the charts unlocks further commercial opportunities for you"}, {"start": 463.8, "end": 466.8, "text": " as an artist, you get play listed on Spotify."}, {"start": 466.8, "end": 469.44, "text": " You get the opportunity to play at a festival."}, {"start": 469.44, "end": 470.84000000000003, "text": " You get played on radio."}, {"start": 470.84000000000003, "end": 475.04, "text": " Now that's all dictated by that central chart ranking."}, {"start": 475.04, "end": 480.36, "text": " And we built a NFT based music format that goes directly onto the charts, same charts"}, {"start": 480.36, "end": 483.40000000000003, "text": " as vinyl CDs and cassettes."}, {"start": 483.40000000000003, "end": 489.16, "text": " And that's put us in really good stead to serve artists, particularly in the UK and Australia"}, {"start": 489.16, "end": 494.44, "text": " where we have our current focus, but we're working closely with Bill Bord in the States right"}, {"start": 494.44, "end": 497.84000000000003, "text": " now to have the format chart accredited."}, {"start": 497.84000000000003, "end": 502.48, "text": " Your neck of the woods, which will mean I will be able to start spending a little bit more"}, {"start": 502.48, "end": 505.08000000000004, "text": " time in the States."}, {"start": 505.08000000000004, "end": 507.08000000000004, "text": " That's interesting."}, {"start": 507.08000000000004, "end": 514.9200000000001, "text": " So I guess that's a very broad overview of the entirety of my professional life."}, {"start": 514.92, "end": 520.88, "text": " And where we are now is an exciting place where we feel as if we are the only platform that"}, {"start": 520.88, "end": 526.7199999999999, "text": " are serving mainstream music fans because it really doesn't take any technical knowledge"}, {"start": 526.7199999999999, "end": 527.7199999999999, "text": " to participate."}, {"start": 527.7199999999999, "end": 532.4799999999999, "text": " A story that I always use is a week after we launched the platform in September of last"}, {"start": 532.4799999999999, "end": 533.4799999999999, "text": " year."}, {"start": 533.4799999999999, "end": 538.88, "text": " I got a call from my 85 year old Hungarian grandmother who said, Max, I'd love to buy an NFT on"}, {"start": 538.88, "end": 539.88, "text": " serenade."}, {"start": 539.88, "end": 543.12, "text": " I don't really know what an NFT is, but can you help me do it?"}, {"start": 543.12, "end": 546.92, "text": " The cousins coming back from London to Sydney did love one."}, {"start": 546.92, "end": 552.4, "text": " And I said, Nana, if you're able to make a purchase without my guidance, I'm going to"}, {"start": 552.4, "end": 557.6, "text": " be able to present to Google in 12 months time and tell them that my 85 year old Hungarian"}, {"start": 557.6, "end": 561.5600000000001, "text": " grandmother can't send an email, can buy an NFT on serenade."}, {"start": 561.5600000000001, "end": 562.5600000000001, "text": " And she did."}, {"start": 562.5600000000001, "end": 567.5600000000001, "text": " It might have taken her a bit longer than the next fan over, but she did."}, {"start": 567.5600000000001, "end": 570.6, "text": " And that's because the technology we built really simple, you don't need to arrive"}, {"start": 570.6, "end": 573.48, "text": " with a wallet, we trade one on your behalf."}, {"start": 573.48, "end": 578.16, "text": " You don't need to use crypto, you can use a debit or credit card or crypto."}, {"start": 578.16, "end": 582.9200000000001, "text": " And then if you want to transfer your NFT out of serenade, you just do that by our free"}, {"start": 582.9200000000001, "end": 584.16, "text": " transfer mechanism."}, {"start": 584.16, "end": 589.88, "text": " We really simplify it so that the core user has served the mainstream fan, but we served"}, {"start": 589.88, "end": 592.36, "text": " the broader web3 community as well."}, {"start": 592.36, "end": 594.16, "text": " So that, I guess, is the overview."}, {"start": 594.16, "end": 595.1600000000001, "text": " Raf?"}, {"start": 595.1600000000001, "end": 597.0, "text": " Yeah, that's awesome."}, {"start": 597.0, "end": 601.36, "text": " I love hearing the origin story, especially all the, all the exposure you had to your"}, {"start": 601.36, "end": 603.96, "text": " prior jobs and roles and companies."}, {"start": 603.96, "end": 608.2, "text": " I think that's like prepared you perfectly for what you're doing now."}, {"start": 608.2, "end": 613.48, "text": " So I want to dig deeper into that because you talked about an artist's, well, being on"}, {"start": 613.48, "end": 616.12, "text": " the charts is super important as an artist."}, {"start": 616.12, "end": 621.0, "text": " And I've talked to a lot of projects that are trying to solve this problem, not the chart"}, {"start": 621.0, "end": 625.16, "text": " problem, but the music NFT trying to monetize their content."}, {"start": 625.16, "end": 629.68, "text": " How did you guys like decide to focus on the charting capability?"}, {"start": 629.68, "end": 631.68, "text": " Because that actually makes so much sense."}, {"start": 631.68, "end": 636.48, "text": " It would make sense for that to be natively baked into the NFT itself."}, {"start": 636.48, "end": 642.04, "text": " Yeah, so we've been on the same journey as I'm sure various other platforms that you've"}, {"start": 642.04, "end": 646.0, "text": " spoken to potentially been hosted in this very format."}, {"start": 646.0, "end": 651.9599999999999, "text": " The thing that has always distinguished us is how integrated we'd like to be with the"}, {"start": 651.9599999999999, "end": 654.16, "text": " traditional music industry."}, {"start": 654.16, "end": 660.12, "text": " How much we empathize with it, seek to understand it and build solutions within it rather than"}, {"start": 660.12, "end": 661.4399999999999, "text": " against it."}, {"start": 661.4399999999999, "end": 665.9599999999999, "text": " And I think that's really important to know a one-liner that I always use is that we're"}, {"start": 665.9599999999999, "end": 668.1999999999999, "text": " in a navel and not a disruptor."}, {"start": 668.1999999999999, "end": 672.6, "text": " We're just trying to make existing processes a bit better, but when seeking to change"}, {"start": 672.6, "end": 674.48, "text": " or uphaul."}, {"start": 674.48, "end": 681.1999999999999, "text": " And so we kept on hearing from artists' teams that everything they do around an album campaign,"}, {"start": 681.2, "end": 689.32, "text": " which is kind of how all kind of music campaigns structured is with a goal of maximizing chart"}, {"start": 689.32, "end": 690.32, "text": " placement."}, {"start": 690.32, "end": 692.0, "text": " We kept on hearing this."}, {"start": 692.0, "end": 697.6, "text": " And so we wanted originally when we were creating simple digital collectibles, so NFTs as you"}, {"start": 697.6, "end": 700.48, "text": " might see them on other platforms."}, {"start": 700.48, "end": 704.1600000000001, "text": " They kept on getting pushed by the wayside because they weren't as strategically aligned"}, {"start": 704.1600000000001, "end": 708.32, "text": " to the core strategic goal of the artist being a chart place."}, {"start": 708.32, "end": 713.5600000000001, "text": " And so we thought if we traded a standardized product that could be chart placed, we'd"}, {"start": 713.5600000000001, "end": 718.96, "text": " be able to get into the main lane of an artist's campaign strategy, but better yet we'd"}, {"start": 718.96, "end": 723.0400000000001, "text": " be able to mirror the experience of walking into a record store as a fan, where you've"}, {"start": 723.0400000000001, "end": 727.4000000000001, "text": " got one product type and a fan knows what that product is."}, {"start": 727.4000000000001, "end": 730.6400000000001, "text": " And then they just choose between artists that they care about."}, {"start": 730.6400000000001, "end": 735.9200000000001, "text": " So kind of to that point, that was a solution around removing choice paralysis."}, {"start": 735.92, "end": 740.0799999999999, "text": " So instead of offering fans a thousand things and then hoping that because there's so much"}, {"start": 740.0799999999999, "end": 744.88, "text": " and offer they can all love something, we now offer one thing, we do it really well."}, {"start": 744.88, "end": 747.9599999999999, "text": " And we hope that because of that, a fan keeps on coming back."}, {"start": 747.9599999999999, "end": 750.36, "text": " Gacha, I really like that."}, {"start": 750.36, "end": 756.0799999999999, "text": " And I'm assuming, well, what does it look like in the background when you want to enable"}, {"start": 756.0799999999999, "end": 757.36, "text": " the sort of capability?"}, {"start": 757.36, "end": 763.48, "text": " Do you have to be integrated with charts specifically, like the charting companies in the way they"}, {"start": 763.48, "end": 765.3199999999999, "text": " interact with this kind of data?"}, {"start": 765.32, "end": 768.5600000000001, "text": " I'm unfamiliar with what that relationship looks like."}, {"start": 768.5600000000001, "end": 772.36, "text": " Yeah, so each chart body around the world."}, {"start": 772.36, "end": 779.24, "text": " So there's one for each territory, Australia being a territory, the UK being a territory,"}, {"start": 779.24, "end": 782.6400000000001, "text": " has a chart administration company."}, {"start": 782.6400000000001, "end": 786.5600000000001, "text": " They each have their own standards for what counts as a chart accredited format."}, {"start": 786.5600000000001, "end": 792.96, "text": " Now that changes if it's an album, if it's an EP, if it's a single, you have to essentially"}, {"start": 792.96, "end": 801.8000000000001, "text": " share information data on a regular basis with those bodies to kind of prove that you're"}, {"start": 801.8000000000001, "end": 805.6800000000001, "text": " getting the right type of kind of purchase information."}, {"start": 805.6800000000001, "end": 806.6800000000001, "text": " Mm-hmm."}, {"start": 806.6800000000001, "end": 807.6800000000001, "text": " Gacha, okay."}, {"start": 807.6800000000001, "end": 815.88, "text": " And is that been the way that the industry measures like value for a long time?"}, {"start": 815.88, "end": 819.88, "text": " Yes, for since, I guess, the 50s with the dawn of popular music."}, {"start": 819.88, "end": 822.88, "text": " Gacha, giving the pen a change."}, {"start": 822.88, "end": 823.88, "text": " With the streaming?"}, {"start": 823.88, "end": 828.72, "text": " Yeah, also streaming is counted in that chart."}, {"start": 828.72, "end": 835.16, "text": " And so kind of the way that it's calculated is there's this concept of an album unit."}, {"start": 835.16, "end": 840.36, "text": " And an album unit is equivalent to 1,000 streams."}, {"start": 840.36, "end": 842.52, "text": " One vinyl sale is one album unit."}, {"start": 842.52, "end": 846.16, "text": " One sale of a serenade digital pressing is one album unit."}, {"start": 846.16, "end": 850.12, "text": " And so we have very preferential rates relative to streams."}, {"start": 850.12, "end": 855.88, "text": " The talk of the industry is not shifting away from kind of a listening based chart, but"}, {"start": 855.88, "end": 861.72, "text": " adding on a value based chart because there are lots of artists who have deep fan bases"}, {"start": 861.72, "end": 863.88, "text": " who have a high willingness to pay."}, {"start": 863.88, "end": 871.16, "text": " And isn't that a better metric for really assessing the kind of worthiness of an artist?"}, {"start": 871.16, "end": 876.84, "text": " Now for us, we've recognized that stuff doesn't move that quickly in the music industry."}, {"start": 876.84, "end": 880.5600000000001, "text": " So better fit within it than challenge how it operates."}, {"start": 880.5600000000001, "end": 882.88, "text": " And so we'll move as it moves."}, {"start": 882.88, "end": 887.4, "text": " But right now we're just excited to integrate deeply within it, understand it, and help"}, {"start": 887.4, "end": 891.1600000000001, "text": " artists who want to succeed within those structures."}, {"start": 891.1600000000001, "end": 895.96, "text": " I really agree with your approach of like moving with the industry."}, {"start": 895.96, "end": 900.32, "text": " And I think often in technology, we're always looking for that like 10X improvement, completely"}, {"start": 900.32, "end": 902.08, "text": " disrupt everything."}, {"start": 902.08, "end": 906.64, "text": " And I think this makes a lot of sense, at least to a lot of the people I've spoken to in"}, {"start": 906.64, "end": 909.5600000000001, "text": " the music business and how they describe the same problem."}, {"start": 909.5600000000001, "end": 915.08, "text": " How it's like it's very stagnant, it's kind of slow, it's owned by a couple of superpowers."}, {"start": 915.08, "end": 918.8000000000001, "text": " And they're really not willing to radically change the way they do things."}, {"start": 918.8000000000001, "end": 921.2800000000001, "text": " So I think that makes a ton of sense."}, {"start": 921.2800000000001, "end": 927.5200000000001, "text": " How are you guys, how is it for you culturally operating these different countries?"}, {"start": 927.5200000000001, "end": 930.6, "text": " And I'm assuming that the businesses might be run a little bit differently."}, {"start": 930.6, "end": 932.6, "text": " How have you been there, beginning that?"}, {"start": 932.6, "end": 941.6800000000001, "text": " Yeah, so I guess culturally as a team, we're based between Sydney and London."}, {"start": 941.6800000000001, "end": 944.76, "text": " And so the bulk of our team is based in Sydney."}, {"start": 944.76, "end": 952.72, "text": " And so that's our engineering team operations, marketing, Australian partnerships, product."}, {"start": 952.72, "end": 958.88, "text": " In the UK and London we've opened up a business development office, which kind of works quite"}, {"start": 958.88, "end": 962.24, "text": " closely with the Australian business."}, {"start": 962.24, "end": 967.92, "text": " We kind of work at odd hours to make work across different time zones, which I'm sure you"}, {"start": 967.92, "end": 971.6, "text": " all do as well."}, {"start": 971.6, "end": 978.32, "text": " But I think we're a small team where 25 people were bound by a common passion to see this"}, {"start": 978.32, "end": 980.76, "text": " product work on a global scale."}, {"start": 980.76, "end": 986.32, "text": " And when you have that motivation, it's energizing."}, {"start": 986.32, "end": 992.6, "text": " And so I think we are, there's a really wonderful culture in the team."}, {"start": 992.6, "end": 998.88, "text": " As we scale, that will certainly be challenging primarily because of just the number of territories"}, {"start": 998.88, "end": 1003.08, "text": " we want to cover, the time zones that that means we have to work within and the process"}, {"start": 1003.08, "end": 1005.44, "text": " that you have to set up to achieve that."}, {"start": 1005.44, "end": 1010.8800000000001, "text": " But I think culturally beyond, like in terms of how do we serve different cultures with"}, {"start": 1010.8800000000001, "end": 1014.44, "text": " an authenticity with empathy."}, {"start": 1014.44, "end": 1019.1600000000001, "text": " We stuck to a pretty common culture today."}, {"start": 1019.1600000000001, "end": 1024.0, "text": " So we've worked in Australia, we've worked in the UK, we've worked in the US."}, {"start": 1024.0, "end": 1029.16, "text": " There's transferable kind of cultural norms between these territories, kind of within"}, {"start": 1029.16, "end": 1030.4, "text": " reason."}, {"start": 1030.4, "end": 1037.16, "text": " As we move more into the EU, as we move into Asia, there'll be different kind of cultural"}, {"start": 1037.16, "end": 1041.3600000000001, "text": " behaviours that will have to understand and bring into the platform."}, {"start": 1041.36, "end": 1044.9599999999998, "text": " But that will just be another challenge amongst many challenges."}, {"start": 1044.9599999999998, "end": 1051.28, "text": " I look forward to it because I guess the joy of running a business and working with artists"}, {"start": 1051.28, "end": 1056.1999999999998, "text": " who are based all around the world, is that I personally get to learn about these different"}, {"start": 1056.1999999999998, "end": 1060.6799999999998, "text": " cultures and get to celebrate different cultural output."}, {"start": 1060.6799999999998, "end": 1061.6799999999998, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1061.6799999999998, "end": 1067.56, "text": " And so right now, one thing I hear a lot about are a lot from art and music artists that"}, {"start": 1067.56, "end": 1075.8, "text": " are considering NFTs or maybe web theory based music projects is that it's really hard"}, {"start": 1075.8, "end": 1077.72, "text": " to onboard users."}, {"start": 1077.72, "end": 1081.6799999999998, "text": " And it's really difficult to educate them around the benefits."}, {"start": 1081.6799999999998, "end": 1083.12, "text": " So how do you navigate that?"}, {"start": 1083.12, "end": 1085.44, "text": " Because it seems like a major point of friction."}, {"start": 1085.44, "end": 1089.28, "text": " Granted, I love the story of your grandmother buying NFTs."}, {"start": 1089.28, "end": 1090.84, "text": " I think that's super cool."}, {"start": 1090.84, "end": 1094.12, "text": " So it proves that you guys have built something that's frictionless."}, {"start": 1094.12, "end": 1096.48, "text": " But why don't we go into that a little bit?"}, {"start": 1096.48, "end": 1098.48, "text": " Yeah, I wish it was frictionless."}, {"start": 1098.48, "end": 1100.2, "text": " There's always friction in a new product."}, {"start": 1100.2, "end": 1105.8, "text": " And so we've certainly removed technical friction because it is from a product perspective"}, {"start": 1105.8, "end": 1109.24, "text": " very seamless to make a purchase."}, {"start": 1109.24, "end": 1113.8, "text": " And now we've removed product friction from a familiarity with the format."}, {"start": 1113.8, "end": 1119.56, "text": " So we've done a lot of work to make our digital pressing product not feel like a NFT,"}, {"start": 1119.56, "end": 1121.4, "text": " just feel like another music format."}, {"start": 1121.4, "end": 1126.04, "text": " So fans are willing to consume it in the same way that they purchase a vinyl cassette, a"}, {"start": 1126.04, "end": 1128.68, "text": " vinyl cassette, and that's been a big focus of ours."}, {"start": 1128.68, "end": 1135.3999999999999, "text": " We learned through lots of testing that what fans like kind of products that tell a greater"}, {"start": 1135.3999999999999, "end": 1138.84, "text": " story about the music, they don't care about tech."}, {"start": 1138.84, "end": 1145.04, "text": " Obviously, some fans care about tech, but that's kind of external to their love about artists."}, {"start": 1145.04, "end": 1150.0, "text": " And so by talking about a digital pressing, by talking about the content that a fan receives"}, {"start": 1150.0, "end": 1154.8799999999999, "text": " in the digital pressing, because with every digital pressing you receive full-length music,"}, {"start": 1154.88, "end": 1160.48, "text": " but you also receive bonus rewards that could be exclusive music or kind of unseen photography"}, {"start": 1160.48, "end": 1163.68, "text": " or video clips, voice notes."}, {"start": 1163.68, "end": 1167.5600000000002, "text": " It becomes just an exciting experience like any other."}, {"start": 1167.5600000000002, "end": 1171.5200000000002, "text": " And so that has really helped with the communication of these products."}, {"start": 1171.5200000000002, "end": 1177.3600000000001, "text": " So we recently did a big release with the rock band Muse."}, {"start": 1177.3600000000001, "end": 1182.64, "text": " And by calling it a digital pressing, we had 10x demand, then we could facilitate, and"}, {"start": 1182.64, "end": 1185.8000000000002, "text": " we told that product out in 25 minutes."}, {"start": 1185.8000000000002, "end": 1188.2, "text": " So that was just a thousand units."}, {"start": 1188.2, "end": 1193.5200000000002, "text": " Done other kind of small bands over the last couple of weeks who sell well because they're"}, {"start": 1193.5200000000002, "end": 1195.5600000000002, "text": " just selling a new music format."}, {"start": 1195.5600000000002, "end": 1202.3200000000002, "text": " I think a lot of people who are selling NFTs have to fight again, or selling music NFTs,"}, {"start": 1202.3200000000002, "end": 1209.88, "text": " have to fight against the bad branding associated with NFTs, which is, this is an investment"}, {"start": 1209.88, "end": 1210.88, "text": " tool."}, {"start": 1210.88, "end": 1212.88, "text": " This is a scam."}, {"start": 1212.88, "end": 1216.16, "text": " This is kind of just a high-face product has no underlying value."}, {"start": 1216.16, "end": 1222.72, "text": " When you move away from that acronym, you can start redefining a format in your own way"}, {"start": 1222.72, "end": 1225.88, "text": " and that's what we've seen working so far."}, {"start": 1225.88, "end": 1226.88, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1226.88, "end": 1228.4, "text": " That makes a lot of sense."}, {"start": 1228.4, "end": 1230.92, "text": " So do you want to show us, Sarah?"}, {"start": 1230.92, "end": 1231.92, "text": " I'd love to."}, {"start": 1231.92, "end": 1232.92, "text": " I'd love to show you Sarah."}, {"start": 1232.92, "end": 1233.92, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 1233.92, "end": 1234.92, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 1234.92, "end": 1235.92, "text": " Do you want to share your screen?"}, {"start": 1235.92, "end": 1239.3200000000002, "text": " I think we'd love to see what it looks like and how it works."}, {"start": 1239.32, "end": 1242.8799999999999, "text": " We've got about a thousand tabs open and that's very embarrassing."}, {"start": 1242.8799999999999, "end": 1243.8799999999999, "text": " Let me just clarify."}, {"start": 1243.8799999999999, "end": 1244.8799999999999, "text": " No problem."}, {"start": 1244.8799999999999, "end": 1246.9199999999998, "text": " You're in good company."}, {"start": 1246.9199999999998, "end": 1252.52, "text": " I think everyone here is probably dealing with the same problem."}, {"start": 1252.52, "end": 1254.24, "text": " And where are you calling in from today?"}, {"start": 1254.24, "end": 1256.0, "text": " I'm in London."}, {"start": 1256.0, "end": 1257.0, "text": " Thanks."}, {"start": 1257.0, "end": 1260.6, "text": " So can you see my screen, guys?"}, {"start": 1260.6, "end": 1261.6, "text": " Coming through."}, {"start": 1261.6, "end": 1262.6, "text": " Yes."}, {"start": 1262.6, "end": 1263.6, "text": " Wonderful."}, {"start": 1263.6, "end": 1266.24, "text": " So this is the homepage of Sternade."}, {"start": 1266.24, "end": 1272.56, "text": " We've got on the right just a hero section of some of our latest releases, some explanatory"}, {"start": 1272.56, "end": 1277.72, "text": " material outlining that what you do on Sternade is you collect records online."}, {"start": 1277.72, "end": 1281.8, "text": " It's a new way to collect records."}, {"start": 1281.8, "end": 1290.56, "text": " Some of our recent releases, again, a bit more explanation around why you're buying these"}, {"start": 1290.56, "end": 1291.56, "text": " things."}, {"start": 1291.56, "end": 1292.72, "text": " Infographic in the middle."}, {"start": 1292.72, "end": 1294.4, "text": " That seems to take a lot of load."}, {"start": 1294.4, "end": 1295.72, "text": " There it is."}, {"start": 1295.72, "end": 1300.32, "text": " And then just some top artists that we've worked with recently and institutions like the"}, {"start": 1300.32, "end": 1303.4, "text": " Brita Awards."}, {"start": 1303.4, "end": 1307.4, "text": " I'll take you into Muse because who doesn't love Muse?"}, {"start": 1307.4, "end": 1308.4, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 1308.4, "end": 1309.4, "text": " Congrats, by the way."}, {"start": 1309.4, "end": 1310.8, "text": " That seems like a huge milestone."}, {"start": 1310.8, "end": 1313.4, "text": " I was stoked for you guys when I saw that press release."}, {"start": 1313.4, "end": 1314.4, "text": " Thank you."}, {"start": 1314.4, "end": 1315.4, "text": " Thank you."}, {"start": 1315.4, "end": 1316.4, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 1316.4, "end": 1320.88, "text": " It's going very well and it's unlocking some very, very exciting things for next year and"}, {"start": 1320.88, "end": 1323.28, "text": " obviously later this year."}, {"start": 1323.28, "end": 1327.16, "text": " So on the right you've got kind of track listing and you've got all these bonus rewards."}, {"start": 1327.16, "end": 1334.52, "text": " So for Muse, they just are allowed for people who own this pressing to download premium"}, {"start": 1334.52, "end": 1339.08, "text": " audio files but other artists that we've worked with since are doing things like voice"}, {"start": 1339.08, "end": 1346.72, "text": " notes, different album artwork, different backstage photography, different songs."}, {"start": 1346.72, "end": 1351.44, "text": " Now a really cool thing here is every one of the first thousand people to make a purchase"}, {"start": 1351.44, "end": 1355.8400000000001, "text": " of this digital pressing has their name listed in the first owner's module."}, {"start": 1355.8400000000001, "end": 1361.28, "text": " And I can click into any one of these fans and I can learn a little bit more about them."}, {"start": 1361.28, "end": 1367.04, "text": " And the idea is that over time I as a purchaser of this product get to familiarize myself with"}, {"start": 1367.04, "end": 1371.28, "text": " other owners of the product and I get to build this small community around the music that"}, {"start": 1371.28, "end": 1372.28, "text": " I love."}, {"start": 1372.28, "end": 1377.8, "text": " Obviously now this very early stage of business we've only kind of sold a handful of these"}, {"start": 1377.8, "end": 1382.68, "text": " things and so it's a very small group of people that exist around."}, {"start": 1382.68, "end": 1387.0, "text": " This product but over time that will obviously change."}, {"start": 1387.0, "end": 1390.48, "text": " There's an opportunity for the artists to just talk a little bit about the product and"}, {"start": 1390.48, "end": 1396.6, "text": " some kind of credence about that and obviously I can play the audio as you'd expect."}, {"start": 1396.6, "end": 1398.96, "text": " So that's really the core experience."}, {"start": 1398.96, "end": 1405.3999999999999, "text": " Let's embarrass me for a little bit and show you my profile."}, {"start": 1405.4, "end": 1413.16, "text": " And so this is me at my old chairhouse in Sydney Australia, my old favorite bar."}, {"start": 1413.16, "end": 1417.5600000000002, "text": " And you can see this is my collection of things that I've shamelessly purchased from my"}, {"start": 1417.5600000000002, "end": 1423.72, "text": " own platform over the past 12 months for more different artists and partners."}, {"start": 1423.72, "end": 1430.8400000000001, "text": " I can click into each one of these things and I can kind of have the experience of listening"}, {"start": 1430.84, "end": 1436.24, "text": " or viewing in the way that the original artist has created."}, {"start": 1436.24, "end": 1437.24, "text": " That's so cool."}, {"start": 1437.24, "end": 1438.24, "text": " I love the design, by the way."}, {"start": 1438.24, "end": 1439.9199999999998, "text": " It looks really nice."}, {"start": 1439.9199999999998, "end": 1440.9199999999998, "text": " Thank you."}, {"start": 1440.9199999999998, "end": 1442.9199999999998, "text": " I'm so that's the platform."}, {"start": 1442.9199999999998, "end": 1447.8799999999999, "text": " I'm over the real innovation for us has been this digital pressing format, this real"}, {"start": 1447.8799999999999, "end": 1454.12, "text": " simplified product which was only launched a couple of weeks ago and it has been the"}, {"start": 1454.12, "end": 1458.28, "text": " thing that is taking us to really great heights."}, {"start": 1458.28, "end": 1462.84, "text": " So I'm excited for you to see what pops up over the coming months, the conversations that"}, {"start": 1462.84, "end": 1465.2, "text": " we have underway are really exciting."}, {"start": 1465.2, "end": 1470.0, "text": " But what speaks better than words is action and so I'm excited for you to see great product"}, {"start": 1470.0, "end": 1471.8, "text": " on the site."}, {"start": 1471.8, "end": 1472.8, "text": " That's all to come."}, {"start": 1472.8, "end": 1473.8, "text": " That's exciting."}, {"start": 1473.8, "end": 1477.96, "text": " And if people just go to serenade.com, they'll be able to check that out."}, {"start": 1477.96, "end": 1478.96, "text": ".co."}, {"start": 1478.96, "end": 1479.96, "text": ".co."}, {"start": 1479.96, "end": 1480.96, "text": " Cool."}, {"start": 1480.96, "end": 1485.2, "text": " The owner of.com wanted me to spend $10 million on purchasing that and I thought I'd rather"}, {"start": 1485.2, "end": 1486.96, "text": " spend 50 on.co."}, {"start": 1486.96, "end": 1490.8400000000001, "text": " I love it."}, {"start": 1490.8400000000001, "end": 1491.8400000000001, "text": " Nice."}, {"start": 1491.8400000000001, "end": 1497.68, "text": " And so tell us about what it's like for an artist to approach you guys or you approach an"}, {"start": 1497.68, "end": 1501.52, "text": " artist and they may want to list their music there."}, {"start": 1501.52, "end": 1502.52, "text": " How does that go?"}, {"start": 1502.52, "end": 1503.52, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 1503.52, "end": 1505.92, "text": " So artists, yeah, approach us right now."}, {"start": 1505.92, "end": 1509.92, "text": " It's quite a manual process to create product but in about a month's time it'll be completely"}, {"start": 1509.92, "end": 1514.4, "text": " self-service so you'll be able to create your impressing without serenade team, man"}, {"start": 1514.4, "end": 1517.3200000000002, "text": " really guiding you."}, {"start": 1517.3200000000002, "end": 1523.8000000000002, "text": " You contact us, you say you want to release an album, an EP or a single and we just walk"}, {"start": 1523.8000000000002, "end": 1527.3600000000001, "text": " you through a request of different assets you need to pull together like tracks, like"}, {"start": 1527.3600000000001, "end": 1529.68, "text": " the audio, I'd like the cover art."}, {"start": 1529.68, "end": 1535.0, "text": " Then we upload it through our system and schedule release date and then on that release"}, {"start": 1535.0, "end": 1542.1200000000001, "text": " date an artist just announces it to their fans so they hear about it and the product sells."}, {"start": 1542.1200000000001, "end": 1543.1200000000001, "text": " Wow."}, {"start": 1543.12, "end": 1544.84, "text": " Okay, so that seems pretty straightforward."}, {"start": 1544.84, "end": 1547.4399999999998, "text": " I was thinking there'd be some more heavy lifting."}, {"start": 1547.4399999999998, "end": 1550.7199999999998, "text": " And it is all very simple."}, {"start": 1550.7199999999998, "end": 1557.6799999999998, "text": " And so once they have that step completed and they are like they'll have like a release"}, {"start": 1557.6799999999998, "end": 1563.8, "text": " and I'm guessing there's some like PR involved with that and then once they once they I guess"}, {"start": 1563.8, "end": 1569.9199999999998, "text": " start selling, can users take that I guess those NFTs and play that music elsewhere?"}, {"start": 1569.9199999999998, "end": 1572.9199999999998, "text": " Like how can I consume this in other places?"}, {"start": 1572.92, "end": 1580.04, "text": " So you can take your NFT wherever there's a kind of Web 3 enabled wallet and then you"}, {"start": 1580.04, "end": 1582.16, "text": " can play the music in that location."}, {"start": 1582.16, "end": 1587.96, "text": " But then also some artists are allowing for the music that they have contained in their"}, {"start": 1587.96, "end": 1590.28, "text": " NFTs to be downloaded as well."}, {"start": 1590.28, "end": 1598.4, "text": " So for some of our kind of users who still use iTunes or still use kind of flat media"}, {"start": 1598.4, "end": 1601.8400000000001, "text": " libraries, you can use that as well."}, {"start": 1601.84, "end": 1602.84, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1602.84, "end": 1608.8799999999999, "text": " Okay, so then I'm imagining like a future where I can be able to download these songs and"}, {"start": 1608.8799999999999, "end": 1613.3999999999999, "text": " there's like integration with Spotify or something like what do you what is the future"}, {"start": 1613.3999999999999, "end": 1618.1599999999999, "text": " look like when music formats are different and people are usually I feel like the mainstream"}, {"start": 1618.1599999999999, "end": 1622.52, "text": " is consuming stuff on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, etc."}, {"start": 1622.52, "end": 1629.6, "text": " Yeah, so the vision for serenade is not kind of creating a better way of listening to music"}, {"start": 1629.6, "end": 1633.08, "text": " than Spotify because we think Spotify is just wonderful."}, {"start": 1633.08, "end": 1636.3999999999999, "text": " The vision for serenade is a better way of owning music."}, {"start": 1636.3999999999999, "end": 1641.24, "text": " So it's a better way of collecting and feeling a deeper sense of connection to the music"}, {"start": 1641.24, "end": 1642.84, "text": " and the people around the music."}, {"start": 1642.84, "end": 1647.0, "text": " And so there are opportunities to integrate with other kind of audio based products like"}, {"start": 1647.0, "end": 1653.76, "text": " a Spotify to show really what you own to give you a greater sense of connection to music"}, {"start": 1653.76, "end": 1655.76, "text": " where you're already streaming it."}, {"start": 1655.76, "end": 1662.08, "text": " And so those are really exciting conversations that we're having, but yeah, over time it's"}, {"start": 1662.08, "end": 1667.84, "text": " really how can we kind of improve the experience layer of what we're doing to connect people"}, {"start": 1667.84, "end": 1673.2, "text": " because really that's the joy of kind of our mission and that when you walk into a record"}, {"start": 1673.2, "end": 1677.24, "text": " store today and you buy a record it's quite a solitary experience."}, {"start": 1677.24, "end": 1681.52, "text": " But how great would it be when you buy that record in a record store that you're instantly"}, {"start": 1681.52, "end": 1686.52, "text": " connected to other people who love that and that gives you a bit of connection online?"}, {"start": 1686.52, "end": 1688.02, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1688.02, "end": 1689.02, "text": " This is cool."}, {"start": 1689.02, "end": 1699.0, "text": " It's such a material like relationship with the old way of interacting with albums and"}, {"start": 1699.0, "end": 1700.0, "text": " music."}, {"start": 1700.0, "end": 1702.0, "text": " So that's pretty neat."}, {"start": 1702.0, "end": 1703.28, "text": " So what's coming next?"}, {"start": 1703.28, "end": 1708.4, "text": " Because I feel like what you guys have built is like all the building blocks are there now."}, {"start": 1708.4, "end": 1713.48, "text": " And now you obviously have landed some big artists and so then maybe there's some scaling."}, {"start": 1713.48, "end": 1715.24, "text": " What are you working on next?"}, {"start": 1715.24, "end": 1718.4, "text": " Yes, there's a huge amount of scaling that needs to be done."}, {"start": 1718.4, "end": 1720.4, "text": " So as I said, we're not even self-service yet."}, {"start": 1720.4, "end": 1725.3200000000002, "text": " So we want to be able to instead of serving one artist a week, so kind of ten artists a"}, {"start": 1725.3200000000002, "end": 1726.72, "text": " day."}, {"start": 1726.72, "end": 1729.16, "text": " That's a big goal for us."}, {"start": 1729.16, "end": 1731.52, "text": " That takes self-service technology."}, {"start": 1731.52, "end": 1735.4, "text": " It takes a lot of just scaling the existing infrastructure."}, {"start": 1735.4, "end": 1740.52, "text": " It's also just a continued focus on building for the fan."}, {"start": 1740.52, "end": 1745.3600000000001, "text": " We've had to do a lot of work to unlock supply, being kind of unlocking kind of our way of"}, {"start": 1745.3600000000001, "end": 1747.3600000000001, "text": " working within the music industry."}, {"start": 1747.3600000000001, "end": 1751.0400000000002, "text": " But now the great joy is that we get to turn our attention to making stuff really wonderful"}, {"start": 1751.0400000000002, "end": 1752.72, "text": " for fans."}, {"start": 1752.72, "end": 1759.3200000000002, "text": " And so as you saw on that Muse Digital Pressing page, there's that rewards feature."}, {"start": 1759.3200000000002, "end": 1761.3600000000001, "text": " Now how great would it be if that was much fun?"}, {"start": 1761.36, "end": 1765.76, "text": " And I'm locking experience that gave you exclusive insight into a portal that gave you all"}, {"start": 1765.76, "end": 1768.1599999999999, "text": " this wonderful content."}, {"start": 1768.1599999999999, "end": 1772.28, "text": " Now when you go into a fan's profile, how great would it be if you could really listen"}, {"start": 1772.28, "end": 1776.36, "text": " to their library, listen to their collection in the same way that when you walk over to"}, {"start": 1776.36, "end": 1780.04, "text": " a friend's house on the said they neither listen to their echo collection."}, {"start": 1780.04, "end": 1784.4799999999998, "text": " There are these ways that we can improve the existing kind of products that we've got."}, {"start": 1784.4799999999998, "end": 1788.28, "text": " So everything that we're working on is not new."}, {"start": 1788.28, "end": 1790.32, "text": " It's simply improving what we have set up."}, {"start": 1790.32, "end": 1793.96, "text": " Because as you said, we've got the building blocks there, the infrastructure is there."}, {"start": 1793.96, "end": 1797.08, "text": " There's just so much room for improvements within it."}, {"start": 1797.08, "end": 1798.08, "text": " That's exciting."}, {"start": 1798.08, "end": 1800.6, "text": " And then how do you guys make money?"}, {"start": 1800.6, "end": 1803.52, "text": " So we make money within free sale and free sale."}, {"start": 1803.52, "end": 1805.76, "text": " So there's a revenue split on the primary sale."}, {"start": 1805.76, "end": 1807.96, "text": " So the initial purchase by a fan."}, {"start": 1807.96, "end": 1812.12, "text": " And then whenever a fan sells to another fan, we generate and perpetuate it from that."}, {"start": 1812.12, "end": 1813.12, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1813.12, "end": 1817.6399999999999, "text": " And is the artist determined kind of what those cuts are?"}, {"start": 1817.6399999999999, "end": 1819.52, "text": " How are those things defined?"}, {"start": 1819.52, "end": 1824.72, "text": " Yeah, so it's a fixed rate for every artist and partner on the planet."}, {"start": 1824.72, "end": 1830.8, "text": " And so how big or small you are, it's kind of a fixed split on primary and secondary."}, {"start": 1830.8, "end": 1836.12, "text": " And then we also support with kind of having, and all your other rights holders paid because"}, {"start": 1836.12, "end": 1839.96, "text": " a big challenge in music industry is no one person owns anything."}, {"start": 1839.96, "end": 1841.16, "text": " Lots of people do."}, {"start": 1841.16, "end": 1843.2, "text": " And we stream like that in the back end."}, {"start": 1843.2, "end": 1844.2, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1844.2, "end": 1845.2, "text": " Okay, that's really cool."}, {"start": 1845.2, "end": 1846.2, "text": " I love that."}, {"start": 1846.2, "end": 1847.2, "text": " I love that."}, {"start": 1847.2, "end": 1848.92, "text": " It's kind of fair across the board."}, {"start": 1848.92, "end": 1852.52, "text": " And then for artists that are like really up and coming, maybe they don't really have"}, {"start": 1852.52, "end": 1853.76, "text": " a following yet."}, {"start": 1853.76, "end": 1856.24, "text": " Is that a market you guys are looking at?"}, {"start": 1856.24, "end": 1860.52, "text": " So at the moment, we're not really a place to create a fan base."}, {"start": 1860.52, "end": 1863.76, "text": " We're a place to direct your small fan base or your large fan base."}, {"start": 1863.76, "end": 1870.24, "text": " It's what we've got because we're a really good kind of conversion point to really get"}, {"start": 1870.24, "end": 1873.3200000000002, "text": " a sale out of out of a suit fan."}, {"start": 1873.32, "end": 1879.9199999999998, "text": " But it doesn't take a huge number of fans to sell 50 digital pressings."}, {"start": 1879.9199999999998, "end": 1886.32, "text": " And so do we get to get this comment?"}, {"start": 1886.32, "end": 1891.56, "text": " And so the, yeah, the joy of it is that if you do have a small but dedicated fan base,"}, {"start": 1891.56, "end": 1897.76, "text": " you can convert them well on, on serenade."}, {"start": 1897.76, "end": 1900.3999999999999, "text": " But you really do need to come with a bit of an audience."}, {"start": 1900.3999999999999, "end": 1901.3999999999999, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1901.3999999999999, "end": 1902.76, "text": " That makes a lot of sense."}, {"start": 1902.76, "end": 1905.36, "text": " So it is the merge day."}, {"start": 1905.36, "end": 1908.12, "text": " So I figured we'll talk about that a little bit."}, {"start": 1908.12, "end": 1910.6, "text": " We chatted before the call started about this."}, {"start": 1910.6, "end": 1913.28, "text": " But kind of how are you receiving this?"}, {"start": 1913.28, "end": 1917.64, "text": " And I think you mentioned it's not really changing anything for you guys, but maybe what's"}, {"start": 1917.64, "end": 1920.2, "text": " going on in your head around the merge?"}, {"start": 1920.2, "end": 1921.2, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 1921.2, "end": 1928.04, "text": " So it's, it's trying obviously where we're very, essentially tied to the current state"}, {"start": 1928.04, "end": 1935.52, "text": " of, of Ethereum, however, where a product built from Managing Fans, where a product built"}, {"start": 1935.52, "end": 1940.32, "text": " to abstract away from lots of the technology that we use."}, {"start": 1940.32, "end": 1946.76, "text": " And so by kind of continually kind of working with Polygon, all we get to say is that not"}, {"start": 1946.76, "end": 1952.8799999999999, "text": " only is Polygon environmentally sustainable, but Ethereum now is environmentally sustainable."}, {"start": 1952.88, "end": 1959.2800000000002, "text": " So our contribution to sustainability is only better."}, {"start": 1959.2800000000002, "end": 1964.2800000000002, "text": " Lots of our fans don't know the first thing about crypto, about blockchain."}, {"start": 1964.2800000000002, "end": 1970.0, "text": " They're really just buying interesting collectibles and having an interesting musical experience"}, {"start": 1970.0, "end": 1972.1200000000001, "text": " that we facilitate."}, {"start": 1972.1200000000001, "end": 1975.3200000000002, "text": " And so it's not particularly relevant."}, {"start": 1975.3200000000002, "end": 1981.96, "text": " It just allows us to be more confident in talking about our sustainability metrics."}, {"start": 1981.96, "end": 1982.96, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1982.96, "end": 1986.16, "text": " And so you mentioned Polygon, so it sounds like that's the, that's the change you guys"}, {"start": 1986.16, "end": 1987.56, "text": " are built on."}, {"start": 1987.56, "end": 1988.56, "text": " Yes."}, {"start": 1988.56, "end": 1989.56, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 1989.56, "end": 1990.56, "text": " Okay."}, {"start": 1990.56, "end": 1993.48, "text": " Are there any other partners or tools that you guys work with?"}, {"start": 1993.48, "end": 1996.16, "text": " So right now we just work with Polygon."}, {"start": 1996.16, "end": 2002.16, "text": " Again, we needed to solve for affordability because we pay gas fees on behalf of both"}, {"start": 2002.16, "end": 2005.96, "text": " artists and bands, so that it is safe for us."}, {"start": 2005.96, "end": 2009.92, "text": " And we need it to be environmentally sustainable because it's prerequisite of serving the"}, {"start": 2009.92, "end": 2012.52, "text": " artists that we want to serve."}, {"start": 2012.52, "end": 2018.0, "text": " But then other than that, we don't need to think of all the creative possibilities offered"}, {"start": 2018.0, "end": 2020.0, "text": " by different blockchains."}, {"start": 2020.0, "end": 2024.92, "text": " So different blockchains have offered us, money have offered us kind of all these kind"}, {"start": 2024.92, "end": 2027.16, "text": " of wonderful things to integrate with them."}, {"start": 2027.16, "end": 2031.88, "text": " But right now we need to think about fans and all fans care about the great musical experiences."}, {"start": 2031.88, "end": 2033.92, "text": " And so we just need to create them."}, {"start": 2033.92, "end": 2034.92, "text": " Gotcha."}, {"start": 2034.92, "end": 2035.92, "text": " Well, I love your passion around that."}, {"start": 2035.92, "end": 2038.0800000000002, "text": " I think that's super, super important."}, {"start": 2038.08, "end": 2048.4, "text": " So as you guys think about scaling, often as Google is largely a platform business, what"}, {"start": 2048.4, "end": 2053.04, "text": " do you think Google's role is in the future of Web 3?"}, {"start": 2053.04, "end": 2054.84, "text": " There's no wrong answers here."}, {"start": 2054.84, "end": 2055.84, "text": " Appreciate it."}, {"start": 2055.84, "end": 2058.7599999999998, "text": " You're the ones to answer this question."}, {"start": 2058.7599999999998, "end": 2061.6, "text": " That's where I become spectacular."}, {"start": 2061.6, "end": 2067.56, "text": " What is Google really afraid to have it spent a second thinking about it when?"}, {"start": 2067.56, "end": 2076.64, "text": " Other significant platforms have announced that they have rolled out Web 3 related solutions."}, {"start": 2076.64, "end": 2082.2799999999997, "text": " The ones that excite me when they just create a more mainstream way to display and champion"}, {"start": 2082.2799999999997, "end": 2084.0, "text": " NFTs."}, {"start": 2084.0, "end": 2091.48, "text": " And so being able to present NFTs on Facebook and Instagram is a wonderful mainstream validation"}, {"start": 2091.48, "end": 2097.76, "text": " of what we're doing, the increasing work on Spotify to link music NFTs is also wonderful"}, {"start": 2097.76, "end": 2100.52, "text": " mainstream validation of what we're doing."}, {"start": 2100.52, "end": 2101.88, "text": " What's the equivalent on Google?"}, {"start": 2101.88, "end": 2103.12, "text": " I don't know."}, {"start": 2103.12, "end": 2110.28, "text": " Some version of a kind of search feature that kind of presents prominent NFTs."}, {"start": 2110.28, "end": 2111.96, "text": " I'm not so sure."}, {"start": 2111.96, "end": 2114.36, "text": " Again, haven't thought about it at all."}, {"start": 2114.36, "end": 2118.56, "text": " But I talk when I'm asked a question and here's a bit of a random way for you."}, {"start": 2118.56, "end": 2120.32, "text": " No worries, Max."}, {"start": 2120.32, "end": 2122.04, "text": " I think that makes sense."}, {"start": 2122.04, "end": 2124.7200000000003, "text": " How about infrastructure and analytics?"}, {"start": 2124.7200000000003, "end": 2131.1600000000003, "text": " Are any of those things problems for you guys that you would need help with?"}, {"start": 2131.1600000000003, "end": 2137.92, "text": " So I guess from an infrastructure perspective, G-Main, MoVA, kind of, set of storage."}, {"start": 2137.92, "end": 2139.1600000000003, "text": " Could be storage."}, {"start": 2139.1600000000003, "end": 2143.84, "text": " Yeah, could be where you guys run your compute."}, {"start": 2143.84, "end": 2146.8, "text": " I guess I don't know what your backend stack is."}, {"start": 2146.8, "end": 2147.8, "text": " Yeah."}, {"start": 2147.8, "end": 2152.04, "text": " Also, there are various bits of our overall tech sector."}, {"start": 2152.04, "end": 2155.88, "text": " I don't know how involved who could be in."}, {"start": 2155.88, "end": 2162.52, "text": " But I guess lots about assets are stored in a decentralized storage environment called"}, {"start": 2162.52, "end": 2168.28, "text": " IPFS, which is wonderful, but has its own limitations."}, {"start": 2168.28, "end": 2175.32, "text": " So those limitations being, it is truly decentralized."}, {"start": 2175.32, "end": 2181.1600000000003, "text": " And that presents some challenges for industries that rely on a degree of centralization."}, {"start": 2181.1600000000003, "end": 2187.8, "text": " And so there's certainly an opportunity there if Google had to play in the same way that"}, {"start": 2187.8, "end": 2197.0800000000004, "text": " their opportunities within AWS for them to create more palatable solutions for Web3."}, {"start": 2197.0800000000004, "end": 2201.7200000000003, "text": " It was infrastructure and analytics."}, {"start": 2201.72, "end": 2209.48, "text": " Yeah, over time, there will be more interesting ways to track the forwards of NFTs and see how"}, {"start": 2209.48, "end": 2213.3199999999997, "text": " they pass through the Web and pass through different users."}, {"start": 2213.3199999999997, "end": 2220.68, "text": " The kind of interconnected data web of Google could do a wonderful job of, I guess, attach"}, {"start": 2220.68, "end": 2227.0, "text": " wallets and information around wallets to actual kind of people and data to understand"}, {"start": 2227.0, "end": 2232.36, "text": " the actual, more holistic view of, and a consumer behavior."}, {"start": 2232.36, "end": 2237.48, "text": " Yeah, again, this is me talking without any real clarity around."}, {"start": 2237.48, "end": 2242.44, "text": " And that point, what we do is we build musical experiences using NFTs."}, {"start": 2242.44, "end": 2244.2, "text": " We do it very simply."}, {"start": 2244.2, "end": 2245.8, "text": " I often get asked for my feedback."}, {"start": 2245.8, "end": 2250.04, "text": " I said, I said, I'll have some metaverse panels, for instance."}, {"start": 2250.04, "end": 2255.96, "text": " And I said, there's huge opportunity in metaverse, but that's not what I'm here to talk about."}, {"start": 2255.96, "end": 2262.44, "text": " I think there's often a tendency to expect people who do one thing to be a broader representative"}, {"start": 2262.44, "end": 2265.2400000000002, "text": " of a large technical landscape."}, {"start": 2265.2400000000002, "end": 2269.64, "text": " And I think that's quite challenging for those people, because often they don't have that"}, {"start": 2269.64, "end": 2272.28, "text": " expertise that stretches so broadly."}, {"start": 2272.28, "end": 2277.88, "text": " And so what I've tried to do over the last 18 months is become a master of a very specific"}, {"start": 2278.68, "end": 2280.68, "text": " kind of focused area."}, {"start": 2280.68, "end": 2287.56, "text": " And hopefully that comes through in the passion around music NFTs and then standing up really"}, {"start": 2287.56, "end": 2293.48, "text": " how we create a real market around them that serves two types of stakeholders, artists and fans,"}, {"start": 2293.48, "end": 2295.08, "text": " for the third music industry."}, {"start": 2297.16, "end": 2298.3599999999997, "text": " Well, Max, thank you so much."}, {"start": 2298.3599999999997, "end": 2299.56, "text": " I really appreciate your time."}, {"start": 2299.56, "end": 2301.3199999999997, "text": " Great to see you again, as always."}, {"start": 2301.3199999999997, "end": 2302.6, "text": " If you're in the US, let us know."}, {"start": 2302.6, "end": 2303.7999999999997, "text": " We'd love to host you."}, {"start": 2303.7999999999997, "end": 2305.48, "text": " Otherwise, we hope to see you again."}, {"start": 2306.52, "end": 2307.0, "text": " Thank you."}, {"start": 2307.0, "end": 2311.96, "text": " And guys, it was lovely speaking to all, obviously, I know a few questions, but I'll put my"}, {"start": 2311.96, "end": 2312.44, "text": " 20 here."}, {"start": 2312.44, "end": 2315.16, "text": " If anyone wants to message me, please do."}, {"start": 2316.36, "end": 2318.92, "text": " Thanks for the questions and Raphael."}, {"start": 2319.48, "end": 2320.52, "text": " Thank you very much."}, {"start": 2320.52, "end": 2320.92, "text": " Absolutely."}, {"start": 2320.92, "end": 2323.08, "text": " Wish you the best of luck and I'm sure we'll be in touch."}, {"start": 2323.08, "end": 2324.04, "text": " Thanks, everybody else."}, {"start": 2324.04, "end": 2343.08, "text": " Have a great day and we'll see you tomorrow at the Merge event."}]