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Welcome, AAPC members to another I am AAPC interview. I am Alex McKinley, AAPC, Alex from the AAPC National Office, and we are with Heather Hulk today. Hello, Heather, how are you? Good, how are you? Good, how are you doing? I'm great, thank you. And with I am AAPC, we are here to learn the stories of AAPC members and Heather. We want to know your story. So why don't you just start off by telling us about yourself, where you're from and a little bit about your history in the medical coding field. I am from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. I actually got into medical coding, billing, the whole medical realm, by a mishap, actually. I, in my senior year in school, thought it was going to be a nurse, so I took my EMT, did all the hands on, and so forth. Actually had a lot of experience in the ED department. I that was the world I was going. Started working in some CNA work, was accepted into the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, and graduated and decided I didn't want to travel away, got scared, so actually just was a manager for a little while at a local Kmart. There was a mass hire at a billing department and my aunt said, why don't you go try that? It's still medicine and you won't have to travel until you feel more comfortable. So I walked in the door for an interview. They said, you know, what they did, I didn't know what a CPT code was

didn't know what diagnosis code was. But they asked me some questions and they hired me. I did claims research there and worked my way up through to a coder and had a fascination with cardiology. Wow. He was there for about five years. And the cardiology group that was there left and took their billing back, their coding back and everything. And I was ready for a change. So I called that office manager, office manager and said I was really interested in working in cardiology. And she said that you have no office experience, you know, we can't even consider you without that. And we wouldn't bring you in as a coder, you need to start out, you know, entry level. Well, I knew where my heart was. So I found a position at a family practice. I worked there for six months. I did my time. And after my six months, I called the cardiology practice back, told her I did six months, would I be considered? She said, let's talk. So she interviewed me and hired me on the spot. Wow. It was not what I wanted. It was not. I just wanted in the door. It was 20 hours a week and it was front desk. With the possible, I was presented with the possibility of coding. But you had coded previously. Yes. Yes. But they were not to be hire for coders to coders. When you're in a practice, you work your way up, they were filled, that type of thing. But I took it. I, this is what I wanted. Did the 20 hours a week. One of the checkout secretaries walked out and they said

do you want the next stage? And I did that for four years and in that interim created a really good relationship with the physicians and they gradually started having me code their their cases, trained me in different realms. I was there for five years around that mark and a there was an incident where a biller left unexpectedly. And they said, do you want a billing position? Heather, what's interesting to me is, I think there are many coders who are introverts and they dislike the life of just coding away. But relationships are so important at every level. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I took that billing position, did that. And in the intertwining of it, you coded at the same time, you know, EKGs and so forth. I just really pushed for what I want it every day. And the billing manager was terminated, the physician. The head physician pulled me in the office and they said, we're terminating her. The second she's terminated, we would like you to go and clean up the mess. And I said

really? And I jumped on it. I jumped on it. I jumped on it. I did that then for an interval. Started meeting with one of the physicians on a regular basis to get my certification in cardiology them and get my certification in the CPC. And I did that for an interval and then... Let me you this Heather. So how did you learn about AAPC and our credentials? Because you had you had a short time of working as a coder and then you started from scratch again. At what point did you hear about AAPC? Was it where we referred to you or did you just find us on your own? So when I got my certification it was early 2000 and one of my mentors for an interval was Renee Connor and Robin Zink. And they had said, you know, you, if you want to get anywhere, you really need to get your CPC. So Renee actually had a course and I took the course through her for, I think it was three months while I was working at the cardiology office to get my CPC and then when I wanted to car then I wanted to specialize in cardiology there wasn't a court at that time I don't even think there was there wasn't much online you, options for the CPC. So one of the physicians that I worked for had taught at Penn State, and I met with him every morning at 6 a.m. to learn the vascular system. So this is as you were preparing for the CPC exam? Yeah

it was all I was preparing for the CPC and then I knew I wanted both certifications. So I was preparing for both along the way. Okay. And so you end up taking the CPC in time. What was that experience like? He's intimidating. I'm not gonna lie. We let our nerves get rid of us. But it's a very organized structure. The way they have everything proctored. The time allotment, you had to know your stuff, but the time allotment was fair. And it was definitely a challenge. You had to know all aspects of everything, all your systems and so forth. But I think the hardest part of the exam was the wait for the results. Because I think it was. So every day, you would, you knew it wasn't even there, you know, via mail. So, but you still checked it every day. So that's interesting. It is that they weren't delivered virtually like they are now back then. You had to wait in this snail mail. Yeah. So the mail, you know, you're waiting for that piece of paper in the mail to say you know, pass or failed and yeah, when I passed it was, yeah, that's a memory, you know, within itself. So each of those steps is as you proceeded, it's just awesome. Yeah, that's great. And did you take that cardiovascular specialty exam shortly after the CPC exam? I took it shortly after and I think I took it too soon because my first time I took the cardiology, I felt really good about it, but I failed by two points. Okay. Oh, yeah, I remember that too. I got those results and I cried for tutu-y. Oh, like so much, so much effort is it put into preparing, right? So all the split, sweat

sweat, and tears. Yeah, so you went through that crying. I went through that stage of I don't know if this is for me. Maybe I'm going to work, you know, maybe I'll just work in a factory through all those stages. And then after about a week of coming to grips with it, I contacted, you know, talked to the physician and he's like, let's meet again. And we'll get through this. During that time I was approached for by a company in Philly and they said they needed someone to oversee cardiology coding. I said, well, I failed my test by two points will tutor you will work with you so I said I took that job and left the cardiology practice which that that took me a while to make that decision and they had a IR coder Aaron and she sat with me. We became really good friends and she showed me the vascular system and some IR elements that I didn't have experience in which is where I've had my, you know, drop in score. And I took the exam again and I got, it was an A and, wow, I, you know, I went from failing by two points to getting a score that I wasn't expecting. So it was well worth it. It taught me a lesson. And it's amazing to see other coders and professionals took you under their wing to help guide you along. They wanted you to succeed. Yes. And we have that different ways now. And I know there are maybe coders out there who have those personal interactions, but we have that virtually. At what point or have you ever been very involved with your local chapter

Heather? I've been very involved with my local chapter actually before it even existed. What was it late 90s? Late 90s, early 2000. Lancaster only had the option to go to Harrisburg and I don't remember if York existed yet or not. But Robin Zinc and Renee again, we're starting up the Lancaster chapter approached me and said, would you assist in setting this up? I was part of the setting up of it. They all ran for office. I was like, I'm not sure if I want to be in office right away. But I would, you know, volunteer and do things where I could. And I think like the second year it was in place, Robin said, you need to run for president this year. And ever since I've either been president, treasurer, something. And I've taken like two or three years off here and there between having a child during the time or you know just I'm burnout and I need a year break but I always go back like I'm president this year and every year I'm like back here again. Well what keeps you coming back Heather to leadership? Um the first thing I like is I just love the commodery. We really in the Lancaster chapter, the officers, we really just developed a really good strong friendship. The members are very involved and we try to involve the members. And it's fun. I just get excitement when you see someone new coming in and they're starting out and they come to you and they say, I just landed the job. Or I'm going into cardiology, can you tutor me? I've tutored a couple people and they've gotten their certifications. And then I started teach

I've been teaching now at one of our local technical schools. And I drag them to these AAPC events and that's, it's rewarding. Wow, that's great. Thank you so much for doing that. And you know, APC wouldn't be what it is without members who serve. I mean, because you proctor the exams, I'm sure you've done that for years and know that process in and out and just educating the community. Yeah, and you create some really great friendships along the way. It doesn't, I mean, the first couple, you know, went to regionals and you're like, I don't know no one. But over time, you just get to know some of the officers, I mean, Rita Genovese, Donna Hart, they're just, you create some awesome bonds. And it's so worth. I was speaking a member, a two member earlier, and they said that every job change that they've had when they've stepped up has been because of relationships they had through AAPC. Absolutely. I was approached at, I was actually doing a presentation as a president that year on a cardiology coding. And while I was presenting, it was, I was approached and said, can you meet me after? And I said, yeah. And during that, she was asked, you know, can you consider taking this job in Philly? I work in Lancaster, Philly, I was like, I have to drive there. I have to, I was scared, like it was all outside of the box, but it was so worth it. I've seen many things. Have you worked at home

Heather? I know that that's appealing to some perspective coders. Have you taken that route at all? I have worked from home for eight years now since I've left with the company to fill in Philly. So for eight years I've worked from home. And do you prefer that? Do you think it's overhyped? What are your feelings about working from home coders? I think it is definitely a learned workplace. And what I mean by that is very easy to fall into the pattern of wake up and just go to work and before you know it, you just work straight through the day. You didn't do anything else but work and you don't leave the house. And so you do have to learn time management in a different sense of you have to act like you're going to the office. Yes. The other thing I know that can happen and as the position I'm in now really work to prevent it is isolation and you know not leaving the house. Yeah. So the office has this pros because you have that live experience with your co-worker. So, you know, you have to use all the tools, zoom and, you know, the phone and figure out some creative ways to keep the commodity, you know, commodity going. Yes. So, how long have you been an APC member for? Just doing the math of my head. I'm here in about 15 years or more. Back in 2001 probably is when I joined. Okay. So what is that? That's 20 years. Yes. Yeah. Wow. And tell me about the certifications that you hold, Heather. I currently hold my CPC. Okay. Which is the standard. The CCCC and the cardiology. And I also with the instructor certification. Okay

is that the CPCI? The C. C. I. Okay, and how has that helped you? Well, what were your intents with that? The CPCI, my intent originally was, I had a lot of people contacting me to tutor them. And I wanted to at least have the certification to say, yeah, I can tour you or work with you. And I wanted to pursue teaching on the side, not full time. And once I got my CPCI, I applied at a technical school. And I was a guest speaker for them for quite a while. So once I felt like I had the requirement, I think it was just a pressure of Ptol myself and an achievement I wanted to accomplish. I just wanted that ability to say yes, I know this enough to instruct it. Okay, great. And do you have any ambitions to build on that or are you good? And that's okay if you're good. I'm currently working through the CPMA study manual. That's the next one. And then I joined, what is it, health care compliance association because I do want to pursue my compliance degree. Okay, all right. And what, just thinking about the students who are watching or those who are thinking about this as a career path. What kind of information or what would you tell them about this career? I mean, you know, you know how difficult it can be to you're reading about a job online. What are the realities of being a coder? The realities, as I tell my students, number one, when you complete your CPC and you start from entry level, number one, take what you can get. And what I mean by that is if you have the desire to work in OV or for instance for me it was cardiology

take that entry level position and create your relationships because that one relationship can sometimes just excel your career. Don't, and I always say don't overpressure yourself and what I mean by that is I've had some students that you know fail by that one or two points on the exam. Don't give up. Just I have a student right now that, you know, she missed, you know, she didn't pass one of the ICD 10 courses. And she's like, I'm not putting until I do this. And I'm like, you know what, that drive makes a good coder. And it's a fun career. It is. It creates, you create really good relationships with physicians. It's not always fun. It is not. It can be dry, it can be intense. You have to learn a good communication because coding sometimes is very subjective. So you have to have a backbone, but be tacful and, you know, diplomatic and everything that you deal with with it. And I guess that's pretty much it. I mean, I personally for me, I've had some awesome experiences. I've seen places I've never would have seen, you know, places in Detroit and Philly, Michigan, Idaho. So there's a lot of pros, but it's not it's not all roses either, but to put in the work. But if you're willing to put in the work, it's so worth it and it's rewarding. Heather, you use the word intense. How can medical coding get intense? Give us an example of what that might look like. Um, well, you have deadlines. Um, I, you know

you know, I can have a physician who really believes something could be coded in a manner and it's totally not correct. And then you have to look at the compliance end of that. So there's a lot of preparation for those meetings and those meetings can get quite fun. They're passionate, you're passionate, and it's just intense sometimes, but it's very rewarding. It's a rewarding career. So no regrets from you? No, I can never say, my husband tells me I work all the time, you know, is this all you, you know, all you're doing? You're reading another, you're watching another webinar, but you're talking about coding again, but it's, you know, it's my word fine. Do you play those word games like even the students? They're like, you know, we go buy books and play work and you don't have to buy a word game, no book, you, no more. Our, you know, coding is that work game. So I just have fun with it all the time. Awesome, that's so, that's so great to hear. Now, you, you mentioned the challenges of students or examinies who've struggled to pass the exam. I'd say that next level, like after they passed the exam, for some, it may be finding that first position. And everybody's path is different. Yours is different. And some, you know, we see it on the Facebook group, some individuals struggle. What advice do you give to newly certified members who are seeking their first job as a CPCA? As a CPCA, I would say, don't, number one

don't set your expectations unrealistically. And what I mean by that is an unrealistic from in my opinion is I'm going to work remote. I'm going to only get jobs that are remote. When all you're doing is applying for those type of positions, you're cutting your chances way down. I think you just have to be very open minded and apply pretty much to anything and everything that's there as an opportunity. Even if you do, you know, you take something in the meantime, still keep applying, even if it's an entry level position that you really didn't want and you're still applying elsewhere, you're gaining something out of that experience. How does networking with local chapters and those relationships that a new coder can build? How important are they and do you have you seen those relationships pay off for for newly certified coders in your chapter? Absolutely. I have had, I've seen you, I've had some, actually some students that I've tutored, you know, attend the AAPC events with me or other instructors that I've worked with, and we've taught and mentored them on how to network. And I've seen newer students or people that are new, be able to handle themselves in such a professional manner, learn how to network appropriately, basically sell themselves in that professional manner that I've seen managers say, you know what, I'm going to give you the opportunity. And I have an entry level position. I'll give you a six months to accomplish A, B, and C, as long as you do that, we'll be good. And that networking that they, that that, you know, new

new, that that new coder did, that's why they got it. Because it wouldn't even been, you know, I've seen managers create things because somebody just is showing the effort. And I think networking and showing up the APC events for me personally as a manager when I see that I know they have the drive and sometimes honestly I've seen straight eight coders where they may have gotten a crazy you know 90% score on their CPC exam and I've seen coders that have worked so hard just to pass it and not quit. And then they want to do things with the chapter. And then the one that didn't have to try just comes and leaves and kind of just you don't see ambition or you don't see that fire. I would pick the one that's done the networking and is trying and doesn't have that, you know, has that I'm not going to quit attitude. Yes, yes. As you say all of that, Heather, I think about those soft skills that are taught in the exam, you know, the exam prepares you for all of all of those things that you'll be performing as a coder and giving you those tools, but there's this other side of carrying yourself professionally, getting along with others, and that's so critical. Absolutely. I mean, they say, you know, coding and CPCs and coders are introverts. But we still, I don't, no matter, we still are dealing with each other in a professional manner. And there is communication skills that we have to have, especially with dealing with a physician. So as I watch new, you know, new members and newly certified coders networking, we observe and watch, you know

you know, how are they interacting. And I've approached people the newer, you know, some new members and said, you know, why don't you run for office for this? We need a secretary or we need this and it opened so many doors. Wow, that's so great to hear. Now, did I hear you say you had been to a regional conference? Yes. Or two? Okay. Yes. How do you go to health con or national conference? Not yet. I wanted to go this year, but I still debate it. Yeah. There's some speakers that this year were at health con and I'm sure I want to go. But I didn't. Well, next year we're in D.C. We're close to you. I know, I was just I was just speaking to one of my colleagues and I'm like, we're going right. You know, DC's next on the list. I sound we're on with the pandemic. It's hopefully done, but we're going. I think there is a, there are levels of APC community that you can feel. You know, you might be in a classroom and and going through that experience with your classmates, but then you go into a local chapters and you feel some camaraderie. And I think that grows and you see the vastness of the AAPC family. And what was it like attending a regional conference versus attending your local chapter meeting? Did you feel greater strength in unity? Were there a lot of people there to rely on and learn from? Absolutely. Absolutely. That regional conference, Dr. Z spoke. What is his, I can't pronounce his last name, but Dr. Z's, I was looking at my one book, see

see, it's spelling. But Dr. Zia is like top and interventional radiology. That's how he's the instructor of it. He's become the father coding of it. But he was presenting and my co-worker and I, we were like, we gotta hurry up, we gotta be a front and roll out. I said, we feel like we're seeing a movie star. We actually sat and spoke to him for like a half an hour, 45 minutes outside of the lecture. So that was neat. And there's some people that like read, you know, there's other, members or you know, officers, you only see them at conferences or only read an article on them or only maybe hear them on a webinar or maybe hear them on a webinar or something. So when you have when you see them and you talk to them and things it's it's fun and to meet with other coders that are in your same base and then when you sit at the tables and meet with different people I've've created some great friendships just with them for like the three days were there. And some great contacts like I've met with people from Alaska and and we message on Facebook, hey do you have you know, do you know this answer or you know how are you doing? So yeah it's it's just it grows your network. I'll say this other before I joined the APC family I did not know anything about medical coding and then you you come in and you realize quickly how big the APC family is. You know, we're over 200,000 members strong. And when you go to these conferences, you just feel so much, so much great energy and see how important medical coders are to the health care world. Yes

absolutely. It's great. I mean, and as you say about the APC, one of the things with the students that they tell them, you know, you do the interview process because they learn both the soft and hard skills. I said, I don't care how much you hate a job in coding. I don't care. Do not burn that bridge. I said, you leave with every ounce of dignity and respect and professionalism. Because I said, if you burn that bridge, I can guarantee you, that manager knows somebody who knows somebody that knows somebody that when you apply for that next job, you just burn your bridges across the board. So there is definitely different employee employment world. It really is. My new boss that they brought in as a director. I got called on a Friday, you have a new boss. Okay. Monday morning. I found out her name. And I was like, oh, I already know her. But and she was in Jersey. But and she's like, oh, I remember you're at conference, and that, that, that's how small, how small we are, but how large we are. That's the right, I mean, and I completely agree, and that's what I was just going to say. We are so big and there's so many coders, but it is such a tight-knit circle and community and you get to know everybody across the country. Yeah. So that's awesome. Well Heather, as we wind down, what advice would you give to new students or those who are thinking about this as a career path? If you're thinking about it as a career path, it's definitely a challenge and well worth the challenge. And if you're working towards your certification, don't give up

set your goals realistic, make them manageable, and just pursue it because it's accomplishable. I don't give up. Don't give up. If you have your eyes set on that goal, stick with it. Never give up on it. I mean, for example, like I said, I failed my break points and cried for a day was horrible. Oh, man. I didn't quit. And I'm glad I didn't. So don't, don't quit. If that's what you want, pursue it. And find mentors because I think everybody in the APC wants to see others succeed. Agreed, completely. There is space for everybody and there's so many paths. That's what's amazing. Heather is like you come in as a coder, yet the different opportunities beyond that are just so many. Yeah, I cannot agree more. Well, Heather, I'd like to conclude by asking you to say with your with the most vigor that you can. I am A A A A P C. I am A A P. A. P. Wonderful. Thanks, Heather. And thank you so much for your time and sharing your story with the AAPC membership and future coders. We hope you found this useful and that's a wrap. Thanks so much for your time, Heather. Thank you.

Welcome to AAPC starting points where we speak with newly certified members who are working and learn about their journey, how they did it, how they passed their exam and how they found our first job. Today our first interview is Abby Duncan. Abby, how are you? Good, how are you? I am great. Now, Abby, we've spoken before and talked about your journey. I'm excited to share this with our APC members. First off, tell us where you live and give us a little insight into what led you on this journey. Okay, so I'm from a very tiny town in Nebraska called Claytonia. It's only about 230 people. And so what led me on this journey was because my husband was previously military. And so I wanted something that I could take with me wherever he was. And then he decided to get out. And I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to continue on this career path because it's very interesting. And I've already started. So we ended up back here and I continued with my education and ended up passing all of my exams within my curriculum and then I didn't mess around. I didn't wait. I took the, what do you call it, the AAPC exam. Yeah, the certification exam. Yep, I took that within two weeks of passing my curriculum. And all I did to kind of prepare for that was took the online APC pre-exams, if you will, is that what they're called? Yeah, just the practice exams that are online. Yep, the practice exams. I kind of took my average of all the exams and felt like I was ready and I went for it. So and I ended up passing on my first try. Oh wow

congratulations. Yeah. I'm sure that was a huge relief. It was. I'm going to back this up a little bit, Abby. So what led you into coding or how did you discover medical coding? Did you have family who worked in the field or anything like that? No, I didn't really have any family. I honestly, I wanted a remote position and my previous background is all culinary arts. So I was a pastry chef for a short time. I did marketing and catering. I was the marketing and catering manager for famous Dave's when I lived in California. And so I just got on Google and started like researching remote positions because this was pre-COVID when I started this whole like journey, if you will, like looking for a new position and how do I get into a new career field. And so I just I googled, you know, remote positions. Yeah, what jobs can get to help me work from home or let me work from home. Okay. And medical coding was one of those those options. So then I really started digging into like what all that entails. And it's a lot more than I thought it was because you have to be a a member of the APC or Ahima. And you know, what is that? And so you just have to really dig in and ask questions. Questions are number one in this field. Like, there's no dumb question I've learned, which in the culinary industry, it's a very, very blunt industry and they're like, you're asking that question, like that's a stupid question. And so this this career field is a little more forgiving in that that way, I guess. Okay

that is awesome to hear it in. You do have that first job you are working now and you got you will get to that story. I'm real excited to share how you found that first position. But you're basically peeling back the layers of medical coding. It's all new to you. You're looking, you found a career that may work. When did you realize that, hey, I might actually like coding as a career? During my schooling, I, so as you know, like with this, this program, you have to take anatomy, physiology, I hated all of that. Like, it's just, it seemed like the background work. And yes, you need it in order to know what you're talking about. But then once I actually started coding within my curriculum, like, I was like, wow, this is something really cool, you know, because nobody else knows what all these numbers mean, but I do. And like, I would get my own medical bills in the mail and I'd be like, oh, I know what that code means. And I don't know. It's just, it's just kind of cool to have that knowledge and work through the books and there's there's not always an answer for every like medical diagnosis but I don't know there's always an answer that you can put in the like documents for instance like at my my job now like, oh, well, they didn't have that exact thing done, but it's like, that's okay, insurance will, we'll work it out. And if it's not an acceptable code, they'll deny it and then you work through another code. So. Okay. Well, going back to your exam, so you said, you know, you took your course, you took the APC practice exams

and we always encouraged that before taking the real exam because you want to be sure, right, that you're somewhat prepared and ready to go, some sign that will give you confidence for that. What kind of things did you do to help you have a successful exam? Oh man, you know, I don't want to like it to sound bad or anything, but I didn't do a whole lot. I just read my books, I read my notes, like you know, just thought back to day one in my curriculum and like how that applied to the question that I was on or if you look, I'm not gonna lie, if you look at my my CPT and ICD 10 books, there's no notes in them. Wow. Did you tab them at all? I tabbed them, but that's it. I didn't write in my books or anything. But I was successful. I mean, I don't have a lot of advice or no insider secrets. Yeah, you know in in one thing though is like if I didn't understand something and it was just kind of like green fog I made sure I went back and re-read everything in that chapter or reread all of the the notes at the beginning of the section and all that kind of stuff. So it was just like a lot of reading and re-reading. Now, and for those who are watching that may not have to take in their course yet, maybe just looking at this career as a possibility, the codebooks are huge

and you're not reading them front to back. It's not like you have to memorize everything in there and tell us how did you use the books because you didn't have any notes in there. How do you utilize them in your exam to be successful? The old school way. So what I'm learning now in my job is they don't use the index at all. I utilize the index through my entire exam. I just knew how to pace myself to an extent. When I was taking my exam, I was not prepared for the format of it. So there's 100 questions and you have a certain amount of time to finish that. And as it went through each, each section, it was like, okay, question one through five. and it didn't give you how many you had left or anything like that so I was really kind of scrambling towards the end because I'm like I have no idea how many I have left like it would just be nice to have that like one out of a hundred completed or two out of a hundred or whatever at the bottom. So it's all about pacing yourself and really knowing how much you can get done in your your lot of time. But I did not take notes so I don't know like a lot of people have notes that one of my-workers now, she has a ton of notes in her book, and I'm like, I don't even know where to start with notes, so I guess I just memorize stuff or like, you know, it'll talk about, because I'm coding orthopedic right now. So like, I'm specializing in foot and ankle for my providers. And so like I really like, I don't know, meta tarsal. Like, you know what a meta tarsal is, just how my brain works is that like, okay

okay, I know that's in the foot and it's part of the toes or connected to the toes in some way because tarsal means toes. Okay, all right. Well, it's in there. It's all packed in and it's not on the paper or paper for a cheat theater or anything. You just have it in your brain. Yeah. Now, for perspective, when it is now April 18th, 2023, when did you pass your exam? I think it was November 22nd? Okay, so I have to double check, but it was the past fall. Yep. Okay, and you passed the exam first try. Woo. Right. Yeah. And the next step is you kind of start again into that unknown right. You go from the unknown of the exam and you pass and you're like, that's not it. Then you have the unknown of finding a job. Tell us about that process. So I was really kind of struggling finding a job and then I saw your name on the Facebook page and I had a couple other issues that I like brought up to you and then we really started talking about, well, do you have a job yet? And yeah, we called like, right, we talked on the phone. Yep. Yeah. And Alex was kind of my, you know, I was just applying. I was basically cold calling on apply, like, applying for jobs. Like, oh, that's a coding job. Let me apply there. And I had one interview that like went all the way to the end and this was still with my A, but what I think happened is they ended up finding somebody that was a little more experienced

maybe had more coding experience in the background because I went like five rounds of interviews and didn't get it. So then I was really kind of yeah I was really like down on myself and then I had that conversation with you and my spirits were like lifted I'm like okay this is not impossible you sent me the links to your other I am APC interviews and I watched those and I took notes about their like tips and how they how they networked with people and so then I started not only applying for coding positions, but also billing positions. Because we all know that like billing is a huge part of coding, right? So I was like, you know what, let's just see, I'll go to the interviews, see what they can offer me, tell them that I have my CPCA and see what they can offer. And so I did that. And I landed an interview with Nebraska Orthopedics Center and went into my interview and told them all of these things. And they're like, all right, well, I think we have a position for you. So, wow. But the whole caveat was, you know, like, of course, everybody wants a remote position, right? But that's not always doable. Not right out of the gate. I mean, it's not impossible, but I was just kind of to the point on my journey where it's like, if I don't start now, in a year, I'm going to be wishing I did. Because I also contemplated taking the course that the AAPC recommends to drop that A. The practice code. Yeah, practicode. And then I got this job. And I'm like, you know what, I just

I just, with my family dynamic and stuff and my husband wanting to switch career career fields, this is probably the best answer. So yeah, I got the job in, I was offered it in the beginning of March and then just with scheduling and stuff like that I started it last week. So, okay, all right. And did you know anybody at Nebraska Orthopedic? Any relationships, any connections? Okay, so this is a cold application submitted and they contacted you. Yes. Okay. The other thing though with it was, so in the culinary industry, you, it's very informal. You go in, you're like, hey, can I speak with the chef, the general manager, whatever. And you leave with an answer, like whether you have a job or not. This one was a little different. I submitted my application, HR reached out to me, and then they are recently going through a merge with another orthopedic center. And so somehow after she sent me the email saying, hey, I want to do an interview with you, it got lost in her email or something. So then me being like the go-getter that I am, I called the center and I'm like, hey, you know, like, HR called me and they wanted to do an interview, but I haven't heard back from them or anything like that. So what's my next steps? How do I get a hold of your, the head of the HR? And so they were able to help me get back to her. Well, then I did a phone interview on Friday. And then that Monday, she called me and she's like, hey

hey, can you come in for an in-person interview with like three of the other supervisors on Monday at 2 p.m. Same day. And'm like I can try to make that work so I did and you really have to want it you really have to want this and go out and just keep asking questions there's always somebody that can help you and Alex was a big part of that. So he gave me the the references and like creating your LinkedIn profile and and linking up with different contacts and stuff. Yeah and there may be those who are maybe lean on the introvert side who are watching and you'll need to step out of your comfort zone a little bit. I'm not saying you need to be an extrovert to get this job but to get that first job you may need to be more persistent than you ever have and put yourself in positions that may make you uncomfortable as far as like reaching out the people you don't know, making those contacts. Yeah, so like when I reached out to like because I wasn't getting anywhere and with these, you know, billing departments and stuff, it's kind of hard to get to someone specifically. I don't know, just like the background of it all, it's hard to reach that person. And my company is specifically and them merging. They're all over the place. We have two different locations. And so they could be at the north location or the south location and they can't be located. And so they're not always at their desk and stuff, but it's hard, but you have to be persistent and be like, hey, you know, when when they're in office next, just please, like

like, make my call a priority or whatever. Because that's those are the words that I kind of used with some of the people in the building department. So. Okay, I want to talk about two things. I want to talk about job interviews and resumes. Let's start with interviews. You had, you mentioned your first series of interviews. You didn't get the job, you had been through multiple rounds with them. What did you learn from that experience and do you look back at it and say, oh I mean I needed that to be where I am now? Yeah, so like I said, the culinary industry interviews are far different than these and so like you're not dressing business casual or anything like that. So yeah, when I went through those interviews and those that the several rounds of interviews with that first company, they actually were all Zoom. And so I never went in person anywhere. And my first, like, two or three interviews were just on a phone. And so I didn't actually start seeing anybody until like that three, four, five interview. So they didn't really give me a whole lot of feedback on that

but I did feel like it was a good learning experience to really know how to talk to somebody in the professional world if you will. Yeah. So yeah that that was a good learning experience and I bummed that I still don't have that job yes because it was it was remote and they send all of the equipment to you and that will come. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm really excited. And resumes and let's just lump in applications and resumes together. Did you do anything unique as far as how you positioned yourself because you didn't have any health care experience? How did you set up your resume as far as adding your culinary and food industry work and you got to apply to all of this? So I also like in my personal life have some really good, what do you want to call them? I can't think of the word, Alex, mentors. Okay, yes. Yes. In my personal life, I have some really good mentors and I reach out to her, her name's Nancy, she's my cousin, and she has been in this professional industry for quite a while, not medical, but educational. And so I sent her my resume and she's like, hey, like, I noticed that you didn't put on here your famous Dave's experience, you know, the marketing and catering coordinator. You might want to add that because it still shows like business office stuff. And she goes, you worked at, you worked sorry, we worked at the buckle. And she's like, that's customer service experience, you know, you know how to talk to people. And people don't just look at it and be like, oh, she worked at the buckle, like

like, she knows how to talk to people instead is how they look at it. So when you're critiquing yourself and like the jobs that you have had, it's easy to go down that rabbit hole of, oh, it's not, it's not connected to medical. So the jobs that I was previously applying to with my resume that I had just built using a resume builder. I actually paid to do that. It was helpful, but then she mentioned that those things, like add this and add that. And so I did. I added everything. And then I started getting more interviews. Because they look at your work experience as a whole also. Okay. The other struggle that I kind of had too though was I was not currently employed. I've been a stay-at-home mom for six years. And so that was a struggle too because a lot of times, or this is what my brother has said, he's a business owner, and he's like, if some of them, I don't really want to hire them because they don't have the ambition to work anymore. But I really like highlighted in there everything that I did in the stay-at-home mom too

because there's lot a lot more planning and coordinating and yes yes yes yes I put all of that in there and they the company that hired me really did say that like that help to just instead of just putting stay-at-home mom like domestic engineer or there you go. Oh boy. Dress it up and tell them everything that you do because not everybody realizes what you do. Yes I love it. Well no doubt that you will inspire others. There are many stay at home moms who will watch this and and feel and be inspired to and believe that they can do it because you've done it, which is amazing. Abby, what would you say to someone who is considering starting this career path, this journey, what would you tell them? Don't give up. It may seem overwhelming, but eventually it'll all come together. And so I was just kind of flying by the seat of my pants. The other thing I will say is my husband likes to call me his guinea pig because ironically he's going into medical coding too. And this is the piece I wanted to say watching him go through his journey and he is currently in school for it full-time and his current job is working on like aircraft brake systems and stuff like that. So he decided, you know, he watched me struggle finding a job and so he's like, you know what, I'm gonna start applying for billing jobs

just entry level. So places that he knows does coding so that he can get his foot in the door prior to completing his schooling. Now going to school and working is tough but that's what he is doing so that he can eventually become a coder and ironically he applied for a what is it called just data entry. For the same company that I went five rounds with and he got the job. Oh, funny. So he was just gonna do data entry for them and then the plan is to become a coder for them once he's done a parent schooling. Well, he's setting himself up, he's setting himself up, right? Yeah, but he only knew that because his guinea pig. You're the pioneer. Yes, in our family anyway. That's right. Well, Abby, thanks so much for showing your story. I appreciate that. And good luck as you continue on your new job. We'll want to check in with you down the road and see how your career evolves. There's so many paths that you can take. There is. There is. So thank you for having me. You're welcome. Thanks Abby. Bye. I'll be, bye.

Welcome to another edition of I am A A P P C and today we have Bridget Wilson with us who is our youngest certified CPC a Bridget. Thanks for today. Thank you. So Bridget, you recently passed the CPC exam. Yes. And you're 15, I understand. Well, congratulations. What was that like to to take that exam? It was very hard trying to manage my time, including I had to do schoolwork and the coursework. It just all collided together and it was very hard to get everything done. Are you would you consider yourself someone who's committed to your schoolwork anyways? Yes. Yeah, it's important to you to do well in school. Yes. So were you able to apply like your study skills that you use for your normal school to your CPC studies? Yeah, I think my determination to get everything high grades kind of played a part into it. Awesome, awesome. So tell us a little bit about your journey into medical coding. How did you stumble into into this potential career path for you and to take the exam. How did you how did all this come about? Well, my mom told me in September that she was going to start taking a medical coding class and she asked me if I wanted to take it. Now, at first I was kind of like skeptical about it and because I didn't really know what it was. But once I found out I decided that I wanted to take on the challenge of taking the course. And what what pulled you into wanting to go down this road with your mom? I mean, obviously you sounds like you didn't know much about it before. Are you just

it sounds like you must be this amazing daughter who wants to be supportive of your mom. Was that kind of the mentality at first? Like, she's going down this path, maybe I'll just try it with her. But I kind of want to have a stable job on my tradition to go to college. I don't want to be like working in fast food or retail. I want to do something different. Awesome. That is so cool to hear. Now, there are so many options and roads you can take starting with your CPC. Uh, and I don't know, are those avenues opening up to you. It's so, you're so young. Do you have an idea of maybe the path you'd want to take and does that include medical coding? In the future, I would want to become a dentist and or the times for children. But for now I'm working towards becoming a part-time medical coder so I can have other time for school and college and whatnot. Okay, Bridget, did you and your mom study together? Most of the time now. I would ask her some questions, but we most of the time stayed separate because we did it. We had our own ways of studying. Okay, and how did your mom do? She did good. She passed as well as awesome. Hopefully you guys had a little party to celebrate both of your success. Now, Bridget, you being so young

this is probably the longest exam you've ever taken. You mentioned that it was stressful and things. What did you do to help prepare you for this exam? I made sure I studied slow. I didn't want to rush and cram everything at the last minute because I know that's not a good way to retain the information. And I feel like taking it slow will help you memorize different things that you need to know for the test. Okay. Now, before we started recording, you mentioned the big books that are involved with medical coding. And you mentioned that the, you just thought to yourself, I have to memorize all of this information. Tell us about that experience is you learn about the code books, the different code books and, and what you thought then and what they turned out to be and how you utilize them now. At first I was really scared of how much because like the book is huge and has so many different codes in it but as time went on taking the course I realized that you don't have to memorize every single little thing in the book like all the codes and that you basically read through and look at keywords and find the code and it just became way easier than I thought it would be. Okay, so you must have a tough stomach because you can you have ambitions to work more on the clinical side with dentistry and things like that. It's so like investigating and learning about the body and things doesn't make you woozy. No

you're good with that. Yes. All right. And I'm sure you're learning so much about anatomy and things that will prepare you for your future ambitions. Yeah. That's good. Right. That's awesome to hear. Now, you mentioned when you when you spoke about taking the exam, you mentioned time, you said the word time management. Tell us about what time management means to you in relation to the exam. Um, for time, what am I my time management for the exam is like you get two minutes around two minutes per question. You need to be fast and quick and flip through those pages super fast and find it, mark it down. And it's all just very hectic and scary. Did you know, did you know this before you took the exam that you get that the math works out to about two minutes per question? I did not know the time limit before or how many questions there were. Okay, so you just went in. Yeah. Just went in and experienced it. What advice, because you passed on your first time. Yes. What advice would you give to someone who is preparing for the exam? As I said before, go slow with your studying and also I've recommended to do practice questions because those really help prepare you for the test. Okay, all right. So practice exams. Yes. Like that. Okay. All right. All right. So what's next for you, Bridget, because you've passed. I think you're old enough to work now. I think at 15 you can start working in some states, but 16, then you can really, the door opens up even more. Have you started feeling out those opportunities to start a coding career? Yes

next I want to start going into being employed. So right now I'm trying to finish up and with my course, since I wasn't able to do it all super quickly because I would be cool. And then once I finish, I'm going to start looking for different jobs I can do part-time in. Okay, so if anybody's looking for a part-time coder, and I'm sure remote, that's probably the most ideal situation for you right now. Yes. Okay, all right. And this would be your path to help you through college and set you up for that career in pediatric dental. Yes. All right. Okay. Awesome. Well, Regia, I'm curious. What was the hardest subject of your CPC training? I would say that pathologists I saw was the hardest. It's when I scored lowest in the exam and it has different general general guidelines. There you go. And it's just harder to understand for me. Okay. What was your favorite section to study that you disloved? I like the radiology section because my mom, she's a radiology supervisor, so it's something that I related to the most and I also scored 100 in that section. Awesome. So your mom's a radiology supervisor. So do you, had you heard her talk about radiology and things around the house. I don't know if you guys talked her work at dinner. Um, yeah, she, she's told me different things about like the bones and like fractures and stuff. So it all like kind of came back whenever I was going through the radiologist actually. Oh, that's fun. That's cool. All right. Well

it's exciting to hear that you've taken this path and you have so many options in front of you. And this shows your grit and desire to excel and be committed to, to your future. I'm kind of curious, what do your friends think about all of this? Do they, are they aware of the complexities and how difficult it can be? Some of my friends know and they're like, wow, like, they think that I'm so smart and all this stuff, like they said that they could never do it, but I believe that they could. Yeah, yeah, you just have shown that you've got that commitment, right? Yes. To that, oh, it's cool. Now, finally, what advice would you give Bridget to someone who is seeking or considering a career medical coding and seeking this to step forward into the studies. What would you tell them? I would tell them to be prepared to study hard and try and mark your book as much as you can. Highlight is the main key and just really work on your time management. Okay, there you go. And you mentioned that you did that with a practice exam questions, things like that. And it sounds like you're someone who, when you're interested in something, you really dive in to try to understand it. You mentioned you were watching YouTube videos and trying to get any information with it. Yeah, I was looking up study tips and all sorts of things. Well, Bridget, thanks for sharing your story with me and with the members of AAPC, and I'm sure you've inspired somebody out there. Thank you for having you bet.

Welcome to another broadcast of I am AAPC. I am AAPC Alex from the AAPC National Office. Today I have Jane Larmore from Florida. Hello Jane. Hi Alex, how are you? Great to see you again. Great, great to see you too. And your, I did believe, did we meet in Gainesville? Yes, we did. We met in Gainesville at the Coding Fiesta and you spoke about networking. That was awesome. That was fun. I mean, what a great community. Yes, it was a great community and it is wonderful to go down there into Gainesville, AAPC. Yeah. Awesome. Well, and you know why we're here. We, um, and with I am AAPC, we seek the stories of APC members and their paths and evolution in the business of health care. And would you just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, what you do now, and we'll start with that. I'm from Florida, and currently I'm working remotely with an oncology company. I do auditing. I'm a compliance auditor. And I do a variety of different auditing. And I took the CPMA from AAPC, which I would recommend to a lot of people out there seeking the auditing field. This job is totally remote and we have a lot of fun because we do a lot of Zooms, a lot of teams. There's a lot of variety, there's a lot of coding, as well as auditing. And that's about what we do. A lot of E&M and I'm a physician educator where we speak to the doctors and educate them about the evaluation and management, which I took the AAPC evaluation and management course, which really

really helped me get the ENM down. So you mentioned you have the CPMA. I'm assuming you have the CPC. I have a CPC. Okay. So tell us about all of your certifications. Okay, so I have a COC, a CPC, a CEMC, and a C-P-M-A. Okay. Yes. And how long have you been a member of A-A-P-C for? I have been a member of A-A-P-C- a member of AAPC since I started in 2016, however I got certified in 2017. I was coding in 2015. Yeah. This journey's relatively new, five to 10 years-ish. Yes, yes. However, it's been quite a journey. And I was very excited when you came out with this YouTube channel to help other people on their journey as well. So let's let's get there. Jane, tell us about your work history and what led you to the medical coding field. Well, when I moved to Florida in 2011, I was a work, I had originally worked in New Jersey for an aluminum importing company and I was an administrative assistant so what came down to New Jersey and there were no administrative assistant jobs so I had to change my whole career field. And I knew I didn't want to be a nurse just because the blood I couldn't do. And or the MA, so medical billing and coding came up and I went to an online college. How did it come up? Did you see? I researched it on Google. And I looked around in the doctor's offices and saw what different people did when I went to the doctor and I was interested in that aspect. But you knew you health care was something that interested you clinical

not so much? Correct. Yes. And why health care? The health care is very important to me because of my parents and my family and also the dynamics of the coding aspect to make sure that everything is accurate and people are diagnosed with the correct conditions. Healthcare is a very, had a lot of the coding and billing and aspect had a lot of areas that you can go into, such as auditing and evaluation management or just plain coding. So I found it very interesting to learn about that. OK. So you sign up for classes? Yes, online. And I didn't have a job, so I had to do this course accelerated. So it was a university online. And I also took medical transcription because I thought that would help me with terminology to learn the terminology and I did it through a online university and accelerated. Yes. All right, all right. And were you familiar with AAPC at that time? No, I was not. I did get familiar with it. Once I got into the course, they mentioned AAPC to join and I was very excited because I was a member of AFFA, which is American Fitness Association of America. And I loved being members and having to keep learning and get CEUs. And this was a new path for me to do. So I could continue and learn and educate myself. Good, good. And was this course that you're taking, was their intent to prepare you for the CPC exam? No, their intent was to give you just medical coding, medical coding and billing, and mostly went into the billing aspect of it. So when I graduated, which I graduated with honors, and I had this medical billing certificate

and no one wanted to even look at my resume. It wasn't being recognized. It wasn't being recognized. No. So yes. So from there, I went and actually I did the old-fashioned way. I went to all the physicians' offices in where I live and I dropped off my resume and I waited and waited. However, no calls. So my husband went to a cardiologist and they said, oh, we can do an internship with you. So I started an internship with them in 2012, and I worked my way up into the coding, and that's where my boss convinced me to take the CPC. And that was a challenge for me. And it took us a little bit of time for me to pass that test. However, I persevered and I kept going and kept learning. And each time I took the test, I got better at it and a better test taker. And I then that was in 2017 and I advanced my career and with that CPC. Awesome, that is so great to hear. What would you say to APC students taking the exam for the second, third, fourth time you are struggling. Okay, I was there and you just need to keep going. Perseverance will prevail. Every time you take the test, you learn something new and look at the scores that you get and if you aren't passing a certain subject, then study that one a little more. And don't think of it as a

oh I didn't pass. It's not that you didn't pass. It's not that you're not a good coder or if you're currently coding and trying to take CPC or just learning. I believe there's a learning curve in taking a test. And this also will build your strength that you need for the coding and billing aspect of the job because there's a lot of research, a lot of looking into different, I guess, you know, the LCDs, the NCCI edits and learning all that. And when it's done at you all at once, it's so much and you can only take in so much. So give yourself a little break, give yourself a little time, and keep, do not let that test beat you you you take that test and pass that test you will pass that test. Jane did you ever have moments for you that maybe this just isn't for me. Um actually no because I was I really liked coding. And like you said, the health care field, I really enjoyed the disease process, learning about different diseases, learning about the pathophysiology. And so to me, it was something that I knew I wanted to do and I knew I wanted to conquer. And however, it was hard because I had to take the test multiple times. And I guess it was a time saying, well, oh, I just can't do this, you know, how, but I got myself up and just said, okay, let's just keep studying. You're committed to this path. I'm committed, yes, to this path. You wanted to do that. Great. Awesome. So you're working and a physician at the clinic you're working at directed you to APC. Yes, they did. Yes. Encourage you to take the exam. You pass the exam, blood

blood, sweat and tears. Yes. And that makes it all the more sweet when we go through adversity. Yes, it does. And actually, it helped me. I took the CBC and I did the COC a couple of times. It helped me to be a better coder. And I believe that, you know, if you pass it on the first time, that's great. If you don't, just think of yourself as going to be, you know, a better coder, a better researcher, a better learner as you get into the world of coding and or if you're doing medical billing that is a big field as well so just keep going do not do not give do not let that test be you you you beat that you do you pass that test I love it I love love it. Great, great encouragement. Thanks, Jane. Now I see, you know, you have five credentials after your name now. You started with CPC. Tell us about your evolution from that moment. So, I mean, really, you've been, you've been a member for five to 10 years and so. And you've really been working hard and you have a vision of what you want to accomplish. Tell us about what led you to these other certifications and where you hope to go. The COC, I thought, was very interesting because it complements the CPC, and that is for ambulatory, surgical, and also it more operative reports, and also learning about the RVUs and the physician aspect of the billing ticket. And I really enjoyed learning about the COC. And I wanted to be able to have diversity so I could work in an office or I could work in an ambulatory care center. So it opened up my options as to be more

have more options to work in different places. Yeah. And I'm pulling up the acronyms, you know these better than me, Jane, but COC is the certified outpatient coder. Yes. And where, what kind of environment do they work in inpatient, I guess it's outpatient coder. It's outpatient, they work in ambulatory care centers. And you learn the, I believe it's the ASC and different aspects of coding than the CPC, because the CPC is outpatient physician office. The COC is outpatient ambulatory care, or I guess you could work in a hospital because it used to be called the CPCH. Yes. Okay and tell us about the others. So the CEMC certified evaluation management coder came up when I wanted to move from cardiology which I really my heart I really love cardiology and I learned a lot in cardiology because you learn radiation and different procedures. That's tough I hear cardiology you mentioned in the group in the Facebook group and yes people talk about how difficult it can be. Oh I loved cardiology. Um just deep dive into cardiology and I would buy you know I have the AAPC webinar subscription I have the AAP, you know, the magazine that comes. I would just continue to read and educate myself about different new procedures coming up because it's continually changing. So then I decided to take the CEMC because of the evaluation and management and I was working in coding and denials. And the denials

I wanted to know why we were getting certain denials. So that course helped me with leveling visits and helping doctors not get the denials on their visits as well as get into the compliance and auditing. Yes. All right. And we, I think that covers all of them. CPMA. Oh, CPMA. That is the best one. I was like, well, why didn't I take this one first, but you need to take the CPC and then and go on. The CPMA course offered by AAPC, and this is not a commercial, it is true, was so interesting to me. I found that it went through the history of why there's auditing, how it came about, and I really loved that, and that's the way I was able to grasp it and that test I just flew it just I just went in to test and that was it and I said this is where I'm going I'm going in this in this direction and I I was a sigh of relief saying a few I made it you know I, I finally did it. You know, I was speaking to another coder earlier and they talked about how difficult the CPMA exam was. How did you feel? I know we all, our brains work a little differently. Was it tough for you? Um, the CPMA wasn't as tough for me because I think it took me several times for the CPC, COC and CEMC that I was totally prepared for that CPMA so do not give up when you were taking these tests because it leads into another certification or another avenue for you that you might be stronger in. So the CPMA is a tough exam, however, I enjoyed that exam. I actually did enjoy that exam. Yeah

so I was really prepared for it. Okay. And any thoughts for you I mean well one you're you're you are a learner your lifelong learner I guess I am. And what what do you see in your future? Are there other certifications that you can stand our website that you thinkthink? Maybe I'd want to do this someday. I think I'm going to take the CRC because of the emphasis on diagnosis coding just to know. However, I want to take the CDO. E, E, E, thank you. Documentation expert. Yes, because that goes hand in hand with auditing. So I think that's next year. It might be the CRC either CED, EO, or both. Yeah. Yeah. That is awesome. Well, and I love that desire to keep growing and learning and you as you create those opportunities, you just don't know what paths will open up to you, but you're ready for them. That's correct, because I always wanted to do auditing, because I went to a couple of AAP seminars, and they were on the auditing side, and they were like the dark side. I'm like, oh, okay. Because there, you would really get into the documentation and look at how the doctors think and the path of physiology that goes along with it is something that I'm pursuing. Okay, right. Well, what a great story, Jane. I love it. I love, you kind of, you fell into things, you know, like the right doors opened up at the right time and led you down this direction. It's great to see. Yes, yes, yes, I really enjoyed it. However, it was challenging so it was a challenging path. However, it hard work pays off. Yes. All right. Now, in conclusion, Jane, what would you

what words of encouragement would you give to new students who are seeking this career path? And so this is a two-parter seeking this career path and those who are preparing for the exam? Those that are seeking this career path, I would tell them to join as a member of AAPC and to read, I guess, read the guidelines, learn about the coding aspect, and also the medical billing aspect of code of coding. Um, and this is, there is so much opportunity once you get into the field and you can get into the field. People are now recognizing, um, I guess where I am, the CPCA as a way to bring them into the organization and train them. So this just keep going. If you're thinking about it, and if you are now taking the test again for the third, second, third, fourth time. I'm an example. I don't know if I really want to say that, but I had to, I'm not a good test taker, however, I kept persevering and learning more each time I took the test and then when it came to the CPMA it was an easy test for me to take. So I enjoyed it. Awesome. You figured out the, I guess, not formula, but how it operates and how to manage your time in a half day exam. Yes, actually managing your time is very important and making sure that you fill out that scantron instead of the book and keep going, keep moving. Do not stop when you take that test. You can bring little tabs with you. So you know you can keep your place if you missed a question. Jane, I don't think there's any shame in saying, you know

you know, taking it multiple times. And I think employers want to see that grit in someone who's committed to figuring things out. Yes. And you've done that. You are that example of that. Yes. Yes. So. That's great. All right. Well, Jane. Thank you so much. I just want before you leave, I would love for you to just give a big shout out to the AAPC members watching and future members and just saying, giving us a big strong, I am AAPC. I am AAPC. Yes, I love it. Thank you so much, Jane. Thanks for your time and we'll talk to you later. All right, thanks Alex. Bye. To see you again. Bye.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. Today I have with me, Vanessa Bon Tempe. Vanessa, how are you? I'm doing great, Alex. How about you? I am wonderful, thank you. Vanessa, would you tell us your story, your background professionally, and what led you into this tap? My background is kind of diverse. I started off in working with autistic children. I then moved into more administrative tasks, but it always stayed kind of in the health care perimeter. And then I moved on to being like an executive assistant and hospitals. I also worked for an EMR software company in our marketing department. But once we had a family, it just made more sense for me to stay home. We had four kids in five and a half years. And so for 16 years, I have been a stay-at-home mom. Once the quarantine hit, I decided that, you know what, my kids are getting older right now. My oldest is a senior in high school. My my youngest just went to sixth grade so I decided that I was ready to get back to the workforce and looked around and wanted to use my background wanted to see if I could work remotely and talk to a lot of people and I did a lot of research and started looking into coding and billing

then was directed to the AAPC website and started to look through there and decide how you wanted to get certified and what kind of prospects there were for jobs. Tell us about training and how did you prepare for the AAPC exam. What did you go to community college or did you use AAPC's curriculum? I've researched that thoroughly because there's a lot of different certification programs out there. Lots of them are online. There are some in colleges, one of the local colleges, you had to get a certificate or a degree in a medical assistant first before they would even let you apply to the coding program. So that would have been more than two years and $20,000, which I didn't have the time nor the money for at that point. So, and also a lot of people wanted, you know, the CPC, so it made much more sense to come to you guys and go through your training. And man man I could not have made a better choice because I decided to do the online video class and my teacher was Jean Pryor and she was fantastic. She always answered questions really quick. Our classes were exactly geared toward what you would need to know. And I felt completely prepared going into the exam. How much time would you say you spent on your preparation leading up to your exam? Like, were you set aside time every night for an hour? Or how did you create a structure for your training, Vanessa? I like having the regiment of a weekly class to keep me on schedule. For me, that's very helpful to have an external schedule. And so, yeah, I would devote, yeah, four or five hours a week

sometimes get up early in the morning or stay up late at night, take stuff with me in the car when I was running kids around to study there. And it sounds like you had very little health care experience as far as knowing anatomy and medical terminology. Did you, did you have to take those? No, I didn't. I would recommend if you don't have extensive background in medical terminology to definitely take their class because I know a lot of the other people in my class struggled with Ed hadn't. I'm kind of a science geek. So I've always loved biology and those things. And so I had, I did have an extensive knowledge of systems and it carried me through. There was a couple times where I was like, you know, need to go back. I even did, I did get a book on it to go back and refresh my memory, but I wish I had in some instances, especially for cardiology. That would have been really helpful to go get a refresher. Okay, okay. I'm going to back up just a little bit. So as you were pursuing different career avenues, what resonated with you about medical coding and billing? It allows me to take my health care background, my interest in science and medicine, and put it to work in a way that allows me to be with my family. And that's predominantly it. I mean, it offers a lot of flexibility, but it's very challenging. You are forever learning new things

which for me is very important in the job. If I will get bored if I don't get a chance to grow and learn and do new things. And getting my certification through the AAPC has allowed me that opportunity. I've worked for a wonderful company that has endless ways to grow and learn, and they support us wonderfully. Okay, we're going to jump around a little bit but your response there leads me to ask you, are you working remote? Yes, yes I am. My job offer was 100% remote and they were one of the things that they asked me was, you know, they were kind of wary of, you know, somebody who hadn't worked in a long time bringing me in and they were like, well, do you have any experience this kind of stuff? And I was like, well, I had all my training via video and I was like, I kept, you know, I had almost an A-plus in the class and, you know, was kept up with all the material. So yeah, I can definitely do this, not to mention that was a stay-at-home mom during COVID. So we had crisis distance learning with lots of children. So. OK, so your first job after completing your CPC exam was a remote position that you still currently hold. Yes. Okay, and how long have you been with them for? 10 months. It'll be a year in October. Okay. So they took me with a PCA. Yes. Okay. And I'd imagine you're you're probably very close to having that off the A. Yes, if not having it off. Yeah, in the next two months. Okay, wow. So you're living the dream, Vanessa

Vanessa, that many of our students aspire to as far as seeking employment that offers flexibility to be at home. What advice would you give to someone who wants to follow your path? I won't take the video courses. Again, it will keep you on track. They set up community groups for you to talk to your classmates so you can study together and ask questions in real time. If you don't have a big background in medical terminology, definitely take anatomy and physiology first. Don't give up. There's like, you know, some of the units are pretty easy and some of them, you know, will kick your backside. But keep pushing through, it's worth it. Get your resume professionally done afterwards, because that makes a big difference too. And just talk to a lot of people, network, join the APC groups within your area, those kind of things. That's what I'll help me get a job. Well, how, and I think you alluded to this or spoke to this just a little bit, but I'm going to ask again, how, or what advice would you give to a recently certified member who has not worked in the industry? How do you, well, how do you convince an employer to take a chance on you? How did they, how did you convince them to take a chance on you, Vanessa? CPCA, no real world work experience at the time? I met online somebody through the AAPC Facebook page and it was right after my certification and my square was pretty good and she reached out to me and said, hey we're hiring, you know, with that kind of score, they'll take a look at you, even though you're, you know, CPCA

CPCA, you just came out of certification. So that's how I got in my foot in the door. Now, I did get other interviews. This wasn't the only position I interviewed for. I probably had 10 or 15 other interviews. I had one other offer, but I pulled out people that I used to work with. If they had any health care field connections, ask them. Again, networking through the AAPC's websites and local affiliates. Okay, Vanessa, I have to say you carry yourself very professionally and are very well spoken. So I would say soft skills, you know, non-coding type skills or strength of yours as well. Could you speak to that about being a professional exuding that professional confidence that you carry? Oh, thank you, Alex. Yes, you know, it's being able to sell yourself. I will say for me, some of that has come with maturity. But I did, I went on one, I went on YouTube and looked up videos about presenting yourself and there are some of the YouTubeers that are CPC and put videos about here is how you answer questions. If they talk about something that you haven't coded before, how you answer, those kind of things. So watching the videos online of other coders' experiences and people that just had really good advice to know the company you're working for, you know, that you're interested in working for, you know, the kind of skills you bring to the table, what are they looking for, okay, and know your worth, you know, be proud of what you've done. And I guess one thing that's really helped me is I

I look at this though I'm interviewing them as much as they're interviewing me. At this point, I was like, I don't want to work. I'm not just trying to get an offer. I want to see if this is a good fit. You know, do you know, do I have what what they need? But also do they have what I need? Do they have the flexibility? You know, what is the team like like benefits? What is the team like that I'm going to be working with? You know, those kind of things. And you know, where can I go from here? You know, can their advancement opportunities? And this company definitely definitely always tries to hire from within. That definitely puts you in a different mindset as that maybe you didn't come off like you're desperately seeking employment, but you had expectations from your potential employers as well. Yeah, they always like when you have questions, when it becomes more of a discourse and a dialogue rather than just them asking you questions and you trying to give very scripted answers. It helps a lot if you can go in there with, you know, ways in which your skills will match what they need. You know, look at the job description, find out, you know, if if they're looking for communication skills, well, what have you done in your previous jobs that demonstrate that? Actionable skills, especially for your resume, those kind of things. Even if you've been out of the workforce for a long time, a lot of the sites talked about using a more functional resume as opposed to a timeline. Okay, all right. Now, we've spoken a lot about your current career

your current position and how you got there. I love it, and I think that's going to inspire many. It sounds like from what you've said previously that you passed on your first try, is that correct? Yes. Okay, and did you and you mentioned that someone reached out to you because on the Facebook group, did you post in the Facebook group? I because we see this often like I did everybody's excited to get their scores. When you pass, you share a little screenshot showing your score. Did you do that? Yes, I did. And is that the post that someone reached out to you on? Yes, it is. Okay. So I think this is fascinating. And I'm not surprised that this is happening, but it's interesting to hear this confirmed that you posted your excellent exam score, someone from the group. I'm assuming you hadn't met before. Correct. They reached out to you to say, hey, we have positions open. You might want to give it a try. Absolutely. Yeah, she was like, here, please use my name. You know, here's the position to apply for. And that's how it got started. And once, you know, once it did, it was pretty quick, actually. I feel like your story is just an awesome example, Vanessa, and we have never met. And this is all your true story. I did not put you up to this or anything. I mean, this is who you are and this is experiences you've had. Yes

absolutely. I've been very blessed and I tried to take advantage of the opportunities I had so that I could be where I wanted to be with having the flexibility to work from home and do a job I love and have the possibility to learn for it. In fact, I, when they had APC had the sale for classes recently, I signed up and got for the CPMA. So I'm starting to work on that. Wow, so you see a path for you beyond coding? Yeah, I enjoy coding, but I like the fact, for me, it's like getting paid to work puzzles. You know, you're trying to figure out where exactly and make sure everything fits. And I really like the idea of doing the auditing of the charts and going back in and looking at rejections and trying to fix the things that they need and make sure everything's in line. I just, I find that enjoyable. It's again, it's like selling puzzles to me. So you took APC's instructor-led curriculum where you met with a class once a week online. And I think there are usually office hours with the instructor that you could participate in. Yes. Okay. And that helped you prepare for the exam. Are there things, after you took the exam, were there things that you look back on and thought, oh, I wish I would have done this or that, I mean, it sounds like you're well prepared, but are there maybe tips even that you could give to those preparing for the exam? Going into it at the very beginning, make sure you get into blackboard and all the sites and know your way around. For the course. For the course. For the course

know your way around because there was a lot of people that had a lot of questions and I think that slowed them down going in and I'm just naturally really curious. So I wanted to know how everything worked. And you know, it enabled me to find all the little pieces of things that would help you. You know, some of the answer keys because sometimes, I mean, I've always, one of my themes in life is, you know, you don't always have to know the answer, but you need to know how to find the answer. And so, you know, knowing what your resources are through there, because there's a lot of career counseling on the AP site when you sign up for it you can still get that and they're they give you questionnaires and things like that. Okay yeah and for those watching we do have a mentorship program that that connects you with seasoned professionals or wherever you're at in your career to make those connections with you to help you get to where you want to. It sounds like you're making those relationships in the AAPC Facebook group, though, Vanessa. I did for the most part. I did reach out to friends and family of mine and ask, you know, hey, is anybody in this field that you know of? Can I talk to them? And one of my neighbors, in fact, one of her sister-in-law works at one of the large hospitals around here as a coder, as a senior coder. So I got a chance to talk to her about what day to day was how, you know, what her career was like. So knowing the curriculum, knowing how your class will operate, it sounds like it's so important

and you really dug into that for the course even officially took off. Any specific tips for exam prep? Because I know as you get closer to the exam, you're trying to recall some of those things that you might have learned earlier, make sure your books are tabbed and marked. Guidelines, know your guidelines. That for me, guidelines were paramount because if you know the guidelines, probably more than half the questions, you can eliminate two answers if you know the guidelines really well. Don't highlight all of the guidelines. Usually those, you know, the first, the very beginnings of them are. And ask your instructor, ask other people, you know, what areas are, you know, the most important to know. Okay, all right, that's very helpful. So you've been working in the field for a year and a half, you say, is that right? No, almost a year. Almost a year. Okay, all right. And what has led you to consider the CPMA exam? Again, just a desire to learn some more about where we can go from here with it. As I said, I like coding, but I like the idea of being able to learn some more and maybe do the auditing and rejections. Just it sounds much it sounds even more interesting to me. Okay and tell me about some of the roles that maybe you interact with in your daily job or and that maybe is giving you insight that you didn't expect and that could be maybe even education or management. As you observed. Because they are, it's, you know, they don't micromanage here. So, I mean

I mean, you have the facilities that you code and you code those. And we work in teams and sometimes if there's an influx and somebody needs help, we'll go on somebody else's site and help them. But primarily you're on your own, you're left to your own devices and you have seniors that you can go ask questions of. But there's a rigorous training process to the company I'm with that you can then go back and ask them questions and to, I guess you get mentors through them and that's been very helpful to see, you know, what they've learned, how they progressed, that's helped a lot. Okay, that's interesting. Well, you've, you've had quite a lot of changes in your life with this new career. Definitely. And you did this all through kind of a crazy time in the world as we've been through the pandemic and coming out on the other side of that. But you trained and found your job during that time. Yeah, coming right. I started right during the pandemic and then, yeah, right as we came out was when I started looking. Okay. And have you been able to be active with your local chapter? I don't know if your local chapter has regular meetings or not. They're just starting with in-person meetings now again, and I have not because with four kids, three, or teenagers, and running around. So I don't have a lot of spare time in the evenings, unfortunately, but sometimes I can join them virtually. Okay, all right. Well, with that, I'm kind of curious, what's the day like for you? And I mean, I guess you wake up

you get the kids going and then you actually know here. My schedule, I decided to work it. I start work at 6 a.m. And work till 2 30.30. With a half hour break for lunch. My husband gets the kids off. But I mean, my older three can get themselves off. My sixth grader needs a little bit of help, but not too much. So thankfully, they're of that age where that's possible for me. Then after 2.30, I can, you know, go do all the regular mom things. Okay. Well, that's awesome. You can be there for the school. Yeah Yes, the flexibility of being able to, I mean, you have to have a set schedule. But you know, you can, you can flex your hours if you need to sometimes and say sometimes, you know, there's just a day you can't work, but you could do Saturday instead. So they're amenable to that. And are you, are your goals each day to, to have X amount of records coded? Yes. Okay. All right. And do you feel like that's stressful or is it as difficult as you thought it'd be or just manageable? It's challenging to make sure you get you know get the quality numbers that you need to meet in addition to the actual chart numbers you need. But I will say it is a slow progression of what they expect. And I feel that they're fairly, they're very realistic about that of what they want you to do. And they offer, you know, all the time they will offer, do you need more training? Is there something that you need some clarification on? And so I've never felt bad or upset about going and saying, hey

hey, could you clarify this policy know in what in this unusual situation you know how should I handle this and you know they've always been wonderful about it I've never had you know to feel like well why don't you know that or it's oh it's here they're no like hey great thank you for asking you know we love to clarify and make sure that everybody has the information and support they need. Okay they don't expect you to be perfect out of the gate. They know your potential. No definitely not. Definitely not. They come in and as I said the training was very extensive and I would say that's another thing that you definitely need to ask in the interview process, ask some in-depth questions about, you know, is it paid training? How long is it when will you be expected to be completely on your own? You know, are they okay with you asking questions? Those kind of things. Okay, sounds like a great place to be and start your career. Yeah, it's as you said, living the dream, I'm very lucky. Awesome. Well, Vanessa, I know you're busy with your kids and as soon as you're through with work, I'm sure you're running around, getting shuddling kids here and there and making sure the house is in running order. And I know that's a partnership for you and your husband to do that. But with that, what kind of things do you like to do outside of your new career and your family? Oh, now the kids are older, I mean, I've got more time to go see my own friends, my girls dance, and so we do dance competitions. My eldest is in marching band

so we get to go and hear a lot of great music. And now that COVID, you know, we're actually getting out and get to see people again. So for me, it's just that. It's getting together with friends I haven't got to see in a long time. Vanessa, where are you located? I don't think we ever talked about that. Um, just outside Atlanta, Georgia and Powder Springs. Okay, all right. So you're right now, you're probably coming off the summer, the summer heat wave. You know what? This has been one of the coolest summers in like 10 years here. I don't think I think you can count on one hand the number of times it's been over 90. Wow, wow. Well it sounds great. Yeah it's been really nice. But then we're looking forward to fall. Yes, yes. Well, Vanessa, thank you so much for sharing your story. You're welcome. Thank you for watching. Yeah, you bet. And for those watching, you can listen to Vanessa share her story and many other AAPC interviews on the AAPC podcast. Find that by visiting the AAPC podcast on your favorite podcast app and you can listen to Vanessa as you are running errands or as you're preparing dinner whatever you're doing you can be inspired by stories such as Vanessa's. Vanessa thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. Today I have Lique Davis with us who is from Hawaii. Lique, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I am great. Thank you so much for being willing to share your story with AAPC members and you submitted your story back when we had HealthCon, HealthCon, 2022, virtual, and I read about your story. You talked about some challenges that you had faced. Why do you tell APC members and perspective coders, what about your path into the world of medical coding? Yeah, sure. So I always wanted to be in the medical field. My mom's side were all surgical text at the time, but I don't like blood. So I was trying to figure out, okay, how can I be in the medical feel without having to see blood and see like really gross things? I mean, obviously there are some charts that will show pictures, but I rather see it that way versus be around it. So when I had graduated, I ended up going into community college and I was actually bouncing between digital media and wanting to become a teacher and then a counselor and I kind of just bounced all over the place and I was like, you know what, I'm going to take a semester off to really figure out what I wanted to do. And so during that time, I would go on the weekends with my stepmom into her work and I would help like shred papers, alphabetized claims and do all these little clerical things. And then eventually I asked her, like, what do you do? Like, what is your title as a career? And she said, I'm a medical coder. I was like, oh

oh, okay. So we ended up searching for programs out here in Hawaii. And at the time, they were known as Hawaii Medical Institute. Now they're known as Hawaii Medical College. So I enrolled in the program, and I did the whole course. We did like anatomy, medical term and like fundamental stuff. And then when it came time to do my certification, I took it, but I did not pass it. But that was frustrating right. You're bumped because you worked so hard to prepare. Yeah, and unfortunately it was just during a time this was back in 2010 2011 where a lot of world stuff similar to what's going on now it was happening then and so I the job that I had gotten out of high school, it was starting to lay off people because they're running out of projects and work for us to do. And at the same time, in a personal level, I was going through a breakup. So my mind just wasn't there when it came time to take my certification. And so when I found out I didn't pass, obviously I was more determined and focused to find a job. And that meet and that put me on to the dental path. So I started working as a receptionist in the dental field. It was just similar to medical, you know, I got custom, my, more custom with how offices operate, how insurances work, benefits, dealing with the patients. And then eventually I left the small family dental offices and I ended up working as a provider service rep for the first call center United Health Care had here in Hawaii. So that really opened my eyes to the insurance part, you know how the claims, authorizations

speaking with the providers, what would their issues for. And I ended up having a friend at the time, she told me that their APC had like a three months crash course to get CPC certified. So I was like, okay, why not? You know, I do remember medical term. I do remember my anatomy and then just being, working with United Health Care helps me retain that information. So when I took the course, I took the exam and I passed September of 2015. The first time you took the exam was through the community college, right? Yes. So you had some familiarity with everything. So as you decided to take the exam again and take the crash course, you felt you felt like you didn't need the medical terminology and all those things. Right, right. Okay. All right. And was there one thing or maybe there are many things that you feel like you did better in preparation for the second time with the exam? Oh, yes. So the second time around, I actually looked up YouTube videos on how to prepare for the CBC exam. And I found out that it's better to start in the sections that you're confident in and you're well versed in versus starting from question number one and just working your way down to the last question because that wasted a lot of time and especially when you hit questions where you're not confident in or you're unsure of, you're just going to spend minutes trying to figure it out. So I was told work it, work the sections that you're confident in, and then once that's done, do the sections that you're not so confident in

but definitely don't leave any question blank. When if you're down to like the last couple minutes of the exam, just fill in whatever bubble because you have a higher chance of getting that right versus you leaving it blank. Yeah, you have zero chance of getting it right if it's right. Right. Oh, man. So you at this time, you're still working with United Health Care. Yes, yes. So I was working with United Health Care. And luckily for me, we all start. So my supervisor that was there at the time, we all started together at the same entry level. So a lot of people were moving up very quickly in that call center and that career. And so when I told her, hey, like I got I got it, I passed my CPC, I'm going to start looking for a coding job because I was trying to find a quarter job is actually a claims position and it was remote but the qualifications was for it was one grade higher than what I was so I didn't qualify I qualify for everything else just not pay grade or the not the pay grade but the the grade that they call it and so I was like you know I can't work for United Health care in this position because I don't qualify but I do want to try to find a coder job and she was super understanding understanding. And so she just said, yeah, go for it. Like, I support you. And so she just said, when you find it, let me know. And then we can, you know, go from there. It's like, OK

OK, awesome. Awesome. So tell us how long did it take you to find that first job? And what led to that? Let's hear about it. So that's funny because I got certified September 2015 and of course I was playing everywhere and a lot of companies want that three year experience which is like hard to find you know like I just got certified how do I show proof of this but you, there are ways and there are companies that are willing to take new coders, you know, and train them and get them experience. So when I took the three months crash course, I had a friend that she also passed. And then she did an interview. And so I thought that, you know, she got the job and everything. But what happened was they, when they went, so it's the company that I worked for now. Okay. So when she did the interview for the quarter position, they actually told her, hey, we have another position. I think they called it like a patient rep or patient service rep, I feel like you would be better for this position. So she, she went for that. And so a couple months later, I think I saw the medical quota position pop up again. And so I applied for it and then I got a call back finally and then we things just went from there and I ended up getting that position and then she stayed as a patient rep. Oh man that is so amazing and you know you got to keep your friends close. And did you, so I often tell people looking for employment, you know

you know, it's a lot of it's about networking and relationships and things like that. And obviously that was that for you. The strange thing is your friend was a new coder as well. Yeah. She led you down that path. So did you ever attend local chapter meetings or what and be a part of about of that community in your area? I did. I did. So I attended a few chapter meetings. then my stepmom, she was close to Jerry Leon, and so I got introduced to her. And then that's the funny thing, how life works. It's like, so I got hired on to my current job, my full time, which I've been there for six years. And the year after starting there, like doors kept opening up for me. And so I ended up being offered from another friend. Do I want to take over this billing for this internal med doctor because she was leaving for the meal and I was like, yeah, sure, I'll take over it. And I still work for him today too as well as a part-time billers. So, like, these doors open up for you and like you said, the networking starts happening, especially when you attend these meetings and conferences, whether they're in person or virtual, like I met a lot of people during our last virtual meeting in our conference in March and I still converse with them today when I have questions. So yeah, it

it, and then I ended up working for a little while with Jerry Leon and getting a lot of information and knowledge from her and as well as the others and was amazing it really opened my eyes and I was like dang this it reminds me of like hogboards a little bit like this coding world is so huge and so it's the visiting world right so it's just amazing. You know it when you're looking at it from the outside looking in you you just see coding, but then you enter and there's so many different paths that you can test. So what path, what are you doing now? What is your specialty now and what specialty do you hope to go into in the future? So currently, I still work as a medical lab coder, you know, on the job that hired me back when. I still do internal, there's a billing for internal med doctor. As well as in 2020, I joined my stepmom in her business and became a co-partner with her business and we expanded it to where we offer providers credentialing, billing, as well as coding. And we have three specialties currently. We have OBGYN, we have a mental health counselor and chiropractors. So, you know, I'm eager to learn more and to learn more different specialties. I'm still relatively new. I mean, six, six years in or however, that is, like I'm still new. So I'm like, I'm excited to see what other doors open up for me. And what certifications do you have? Are you just a CPC holder right now? Currently, CPC only. I was thinking about getting the C PB

the billing one and then just seeing what else comes available and what I also feel interested in because I think the OBGYN too, that sounded interesting to me. But it on like where, where my path takes me as far as the, which specialties I really work with. Yes, the gay, and as you talked about paths opening up doors opening up for you, I thought about what you submitted for your submission to be a part of I am A. P. C. And in there you say, everything happens for a reason and would love to share my story. And here you are, you know, sharing that everything does happen for a reason and showing that these paths continue to open for you. And they may not have been there when you tried to take that exam the first time. Right. Yeah, I definitely don't think like mature wise and I just wouldn't have been the same. And, you know, everyone goes through that with anything, you know, especially with, with money or like the pay raises or anything. It's like if you got everything all at once, you wouldn't know how to handle it and you probably would make a lot of mistakes and a lot of errors. So it's like, things are presented to you at the right time and for right reasons. Now you said you you have your full-time job but then you also have side coding jobs as well. Yeah. That is awesome. So how do you manage all of that? Do you are you coding through the night? Do you have time for your own personal life after work? I do. It's definitely been interesting, in the beginning, trying to manage it all and when to have some me time. But since COVID happened

my full-time job, we became hybrid. So two days of the week, I go in the office and then the rest of the three days I'm here at home. And that allows me to work on my business as well when I have downtime. And then on the weekends too, like I'll wake up and if I feel like to exercise, I'll go exercise and then I'll do my business. But there, you know, you just have to make time. And if you love what you do, you will make time versus making excuses. Okay, so why do you love coding? What makes you the perfect fit for medical coding, BK? So I always tell people with health care, you really have to be passionate about it because health care is forever changing and you really have to be adaptable to it and be patient with these changes. And I feel like with these types of changes, it keeps your mind young and you're just always learning different things but also keeps your mind young. So I love learning different things. Yeah, sometimes like the changes for like insurances can be a little annoying, but at the same time, it's still, I don't know, it just helps you to remember certain things better. And my friends and my cork has always remembered. Wow, you remember that email from, she just said it the other day. You remember that email from 2017? I was like, yeah, there's a lot of things I remember it if I can just like think a little bit. Yeah. So I like this, but I do. I really like to be of service to the providers

to the patients and just learn whatever I can learn here. And you mentioned that there were a few other career paths that crossed your mind, one being a teacher and one digital media, kind of that's what I'm doing. So you've got this creative side to you and you've got this teaching side, but also this investigator wanting to learn and solve these medical mysteries, building mysteries and coding mysteries. Do they fit together? I feel like they do because when it comes to like claim denials right like that caught that you have to put a different hat on and be an investigator and be like okay was it an eligibility mess up was up? Was it a system error? Was it the insurance? So it's like you really have to use your left side of the brain and the right side of the brain, you know, like, sometimes when I'm coding things, like, I'll look at stuff and I'm like, this doesn't feel right. You know, so I'll bring it up in an email like, hey, can we check on this? And I'm like, oh yeah, that shouldn't have been there. I was like, okay, cool. So it's like you really, I don't know, you balance out the two and I feel like in this industry, like you really do have to balance, you know, your left and you're right and just be a little bit just flexible and intuitive sometimes regarding these, this world. Yes, yes. So you mentioned, you know, talking to others who maybe am interested in this industry. What, because not everybody has this well-roundedness that you have, like many of the medical coders that I speak with are very

like they're very analytical and they would probably shirk away from saying that they're creative. So, and I don't know what it's like for you and the other coders that you work with, I know what it's like for you because you have all of that, but are, do you feel like many of the coders or the majority of coders are more analytically driven? Yeah, I think so. And I also noticed too, like we did many years back, we did like a behavior analytics quiz, and I was the only one that had introvert, not introvert, extrovert, all the others were introvert. And I think, and too, like being in Hawaii, you're very like the Oluha spirit and you're wanting to help and you're wanting to do things, you know, with your community and stuff. So even when I was at United Health Care, we had a committee, I think it was called like Leet, and it's like a leadership type of committee where you go out into the community and you just, you know, do fun things with them and even with the co-workers, like you put on events and I, I, I similarly do that with the full-time job that I have now, and I'm always volunteering. I'm helping to bring up ideas, whether that's for like a, like a potluck or something, or just processes with the way we code and how certain processes for our systems, you know

you know, I'm like always I'm always saying something or bringing up a question or because sometimes like I'll help other coders like message me privately and be like oh thank you for asking that because I was running the same thing and I was like no worries I got you. It's just I think if you ask questions and you're not afraid and then when you know something is not right and you should speak up on it, definitely do it because there's others wanting and wanting to know the same thing. Yes. We talked about so many different paths to take. Do you do you see yourself as an educator someday? Do you want to take that path? I do actually. There have been moments where I would see, I guess positions open up at Hawaii Medical College where they're looking for a coder or some type of an instructor for the medical and billing. And I'm not totally confident on it just yet, but I definitely see myself later down the line, wanting to step into a type of leadership or a teaching role for it. Okay. And I feel like you have, with that Aloha spirit that you mentioned, and community and bringing people together and sharing, you would be a great chapter officer. Has that ever crossed your mind? And do you participate on a regular basis with your chapter? It has been said once in a conference, my co-worker, she had blurted out, Leake, you should be an officer and I was like, oh, no, not yet. But I observed what the officers do and each role they all take. I don't think I'm quite there yet

but that is also a possibility that or a path that I thought about taking eventually as well. Okay, all right, that's a beautiful thing. There's so many opportunities. How has A. P. C. Helped you in your career. Oh my gosh, and a lot of ways just like just, just giving me my multiple jobs that I have, meeting certain individuals like Jerry Leung and other quotas around the world and builders around the world, and just opening doors that I always knew I wanted to walk through. I just didn't see how they would ever come, but you know, being part of AAPC and joining the conferences and joining the meetings and networking, that's one huge way of starting your career path. And eventually if you wanted your own business, that's one way to do it too because because you're going to be networking. And you mentioned conferences and you reached out to me because of health con and you attended that. Was that your first health con experience? It was my first health con virtually. I had attended, my first one was in Vegas. I forgot what year it was I think it was before a couple years prior but that was my first Halkon in Vegas that was really fun a lot of walking but Las Vegas everything is so far apart but both of them I really enjoy so obviously the virtual is a little bit more cost friendly because you're not spending on plane tickets and hotels. But if you love interacting, which you can do, I love the way you guys set up the app for the conference and like the vendors and the games, the games are really fun and just thethe trivia, it was either way

if you prefer to stay in your own home and attend, do it that way if you can, or in person as well. That way you can just be really in the vibe of everything, because it's really fun. When you register for an AP conference and you look at all of the different sessions, what kind of sessions do you look for? Are you looking for things that relate specifically to your job or things that this might spark an interest? How do you figure that out? Both. So depending what's in one session or the session time, I try to pick things that I'm currently either struggling with or need more knowledge about. So I think the last one was there was a session I did for OBGYN because I was relatively new. And then there was another session that I just wanted more knowledge about and that was claim denials. And then there was other sessions with mental health because I know that's becoming a really big thing nowadays. And I do billing for mental health counselors. So just to see where the community's at, how providers everywhere else is handling this and doing their claims and everything like that and what kind of denials they're seeing as well. Yes, yes. Well, Leake, you have, I mean, you're, we've only just begun, but yet you're so far into it, because many of the coders that I speak with on IMA PC are in their second, third years. So you are six years into this, and you're very young, so you've got so many possibilities and so many

so many opportunities to speak to other chapters as you're getting your expertise. I'm sure you'll discover those things that can help other coders in health care business monthly or like I said, chapters or maybe even speaking at a conference. Maybe we can see you speaking at a conference instead of attending a conference. Yeah, hey, that's always a possibility. Yeah, well, Leke, outside of coding life, what does Leke like to do? How do you mention exercise and things like that? You're so busy professionally. How do you unwind? So, this is the funny part, and I was debating if I should say it or not, but when it came to like with coding and billing, obviously you're working your left side of the brain, but I have always been interested in spiritual stuff. And so during 2020, when you know, things were kind of shut down, it really pushed me into another path and another passion of mine and to really get involved with tarot. So on my downtime I do tarot readings. Oh wow. Oh wow. So do you give readings to friends and I guess anybody who's interested in that? Correct. Yeah. Awesome, awesome. And have you, I don't know how that works, but has it given you and opened up paths for you and help you discover yourself better? It has. I feel like it's still relatively new, but I do feel at least more connected in anything I do, and especially if I'm going through hard times, like in my career or at work, like I know there's reasons to it because it has to do with like astrology and like the way the planets are or the moon phases are

like there's so much more to it than just a regular here's the sun here's the moon kind of thing. So it helps balance out everything and I think that's why I approach things with both perspective of a logical and intuitive part. That is awesome. Well, Lique, thank you so much for sharing your story. Hang on with me as we wrap this up. I just want to let our viewers know that they can listen to you, share your story on the AAPC podcast. If you search for the AAPC podcast on your favorite podcast app, you can listen to Lique and many other I am AAPC interviews, as well as the AAPC social hours that we have twice a month. So we hope to see you there. And Lique, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me.