#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-13
<LaserJock> raphink: you still up? 
<raphink> yep
<raphink> sure
<LaserJock> what time is it there? 
<raphink> building a fix for kontact
<raphink> it's 00:21
<raphink> I'm often up later than this
<phanatic> raphink: still kontact?  is it such a bugware? :) 
<raphink> phanatic: the first fix I had didn't work
<raphink> and I spent 6 hours applying it
<raphink> since it a was a bit complicate
<phanatic> ouch
<raphink> and I had to rebuild the app on top of the new lib
<raphink> etc. 
<raphink> but it didn't work anyway
<raphink> so I went to #kontact
<raphink> and till made a new fix
<raphink> much lighter
<raphink> that I'm building right now
<raphink> hopefully it'll work
<phanatic> yeah, i hope so, too... you deserve it ;)
<raphink> :)
<SWAT> where can I find the neccesary information to 'build' and 'redistribute' Ubuntu with custom packages (install CD's and Live CD's) ?  It's mainly because I want to use a custom WindowManager
<LaserJock> SWAT: what WM? 
<SWAT> fluxbox :)
<SWAT> Flubuntu :)
<LaserJock> lol
<minghua> SWAT: Ubuntu has some work called "OEM support" which you may be interested in, however I can't find anything important on wiki
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure where there are docs
<minghua> SWAT: there are two spec pages though
<LaserJock> seems to be a popular topic lately ;-)
<SWAT> why popular? 
<SWAT> and there is nothing of use, I could find on the wiki. 
<LaserJock> Ebuntu just came out a little while ago
<SWAT> OK :)
<LaserJock> although I would personally favor an Obuntu
<SWAT> que? 
<LaserJock> Openbox + Ubuntu
<SWAT> 0buntu?  Must be a joke :)
<SWAT> ow... OK :)
<SWAT> so, where I can find the neccesary information?  Ideas, hints, tips are very welcome :D
<ajmitch> LaserJock: one can't really say that ebuntu 'came out'
<ajmitch> since so far it's just been some e17 packages
<SWAT> for me it would just be a tweaking of installed packages.... shouldn't be too much work I guess
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, you can download an iso anyway
<ajmitch> that's been done?  oh wonderful
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I guess I should be a little more careful in my choice of words
<freeflying-ibook> LaserJock: Ebuntu is out ? 
<tseng> LaserJock: openbox++
<SWAT> :)
<LaserJock> freeflying-ibook: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu
<LaserJock> anyway,they might have the info you are looking for SWAT
<SWAT> LaserJock, thanks for the tip :)
<phanatic> good night guys
<LaserJock> cya phanatic
<SWAT> nn
* SWAT is gone (also nn)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: where is this ebuntu iso? 
<tseng> the guy claims he is going to get funding from canonical any day now
<ajmitch> oh right
* ajmitch hadn't heard that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what the heck, I though they were distributing .iso's.  I only see debs
<LaserJock> it looks like he is looking for a host for is iso's
<LaserJock> elivecd.org is pretty cool looking though, I think Ebuntu is supposed to be the Ubuntu version kinda
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock, ajmitch
<ajmitch> LaserJock: perhaps I'm just overly cynical
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not really.  I understand where you are coming from
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but I wonder if the elivecd.org guys use checkinstall. 
<ajmitch> KinsLaYer: do you really need to do ctcp ping? 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you scared him off ;-)
<ajmitch> I get suspicious when someone does ctcp ping & version a couple of times
<Mez> hmm is anyone here willing to debug my abysmal C++ coding and get some code working for me ? :P
<sistpoty> Mez: only a small error?  then I'd give it a try;)
<Mez> sistpoty: It's nothgn major - I think - it just needs a little tweaking somewhere
<Mez> sistpoty: bzr branch http://baz.thekatapult.org.uk/mez/dynamicprograms/
<sistpoty> Mez: ok, I'll take a look...
<Mez> it's in the code I changed to programcatalog
<Mez> probably completely messed up ;)
<Mez> but - meh - if it is don't worry
<ajmitch> Mez: did you fix up bzr push? 
<Mez> ajmitch: not yet - not been to sleep yet
<Mez> sorry
<Mez> went to sleep before that *
<Mez> at least my python is better than my C++
<ajmitch> I don't worry, I don't use push very often :)
* Mez crosses legs
<Mez> I wish whoever was in the shower would hurry up
<sistpoty> Mez: how can I build it? 
<Mez> make -f admin/Makefile.common dist
<Mez> will create your makefiles/configure for you
<sistpoty> Mez: ah, thx
<sistpoty> gborzi@ieee.org: are you online? 
<ajmitch> hi tritium
<tritium> hi ajmitch! 
<ajmitch> how's it going? 
<tritium> Not bad.   How are you? 
<ajmitch> alright
<tritium> I'm packing for a trip
<LaserJock> hi tritium! 
<tritium> Hi LaserJock! 
<LaserJock> tritium: how's life been going? 
<tritium> LaserJock: same old.   You? 
<LaserJock> tritium: pretty much, I'll sure be glad when I get out of grad school. 
<LaserJock> tritium: had to give a departmental seminar today on my research
<tritium> How did it go? 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how much longer do you have? 
<LaserJock> tritium: fine, it was mostly the same stuff I've been talking about for 3 semesters now. 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: probably ~ 1 year, depending on my how quickly my collaborators can get their work done
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> the fun of working with others :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I'd probably be done now if I wasn't tied to other people
<tritium> LaserJock: glad it went well.   :)
<tritium> LaserJock: as busy as it feels in grad school, it only gets busier after you graduate. 
<LaserJock> tritium: I'm sure.  what do you do? 
<tritium> LaserJock: I'll just refer to it as systems engineering
<LaserJock> hmm, that sounds about vague enough ;-)
<LaserJock> tritium: how's the weather down there?  It's been fairly cold and nasty here
<tritium> LaserJock: heh, intentionally so...Weather is pretty good.   I'm off to dinner.   Talk to you in a bit. 
<LaserJock> tritium: cya later
<LaserJock> I'm stuck in the lab until 21:00 tonight :(
<raphink> :(
<LaserJock> well, on the bright side I'm more likely to get some Ubuntu work done at the lab then at home
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<atie_> hi, all
<freeflying> atie_: hi
<minghua> hi atie_
<minghua> atie_: I actually have a question for you
<atie_> minghua, hi.. thx for scm-hangul. 
<minghua> atie_: I heard that scim-tables-ko is not really suitable for native Korean speakers, but more for the people learning Korean, is that right? 
<minghua> atie_: my pleasure
<atie_> minghua, I don't know...
<minghua> atie_: I am asking because I just noticed that language-support-ko depends on both scim-hangul and scim-tables-ko
<minghua> atie_: oh okay.   but if you can ask this question for me in the Korean ubuntu community, I would appreciate it
<atie_> minghua, you mean same as scim-tables-jp(or ja)? 
<atie_> minghua, I saw they removed dependancy for scim-tables-jp...
<minghua> atie_: it's -ja.   I don't really know, I am just raising this to your attention
<minghua> atie_: it is important to me because if I implement im-switch support for scim-tables, I need to decide the priority based on if they are installed by default or not
<atie_> minghua, I will check it, is there reason not for both? 
<freeflying> minghua: language-support-zh shall depend on scim-tables-zh too
<minghua> atie_: both existing is fine (at least for me).   but then which one do you think will be preferred, scim-hangul or scim-tables-ko (again, for setting the im-switch priority)
<minghua> freeflying: yes I saw that
<atie_> scim-hangul, I think. 
<minghua> freeflying: and scim-tables-ja was not in ja's language pack because JP team doesn't want it, right? 
<atie_> but, scim-tables-ja did, why not for all scim-tables-xx? 
<freeflying> minghua: ya , I ask pitti remove them ,for they file bugs on it
<minghua> atie_: okay, thanks.   I suppose scim-tables-ko should have lower priority than scim-hangul
<minghua> freeflying: ok thanks for the info
<doko> freeflying, minghua: some time about OOo and scim? 
<atie_> minghua, ok
<freeflying> minghua: actually scim-tables and scim-hangul are the modules of scim
<freeflying> doko: hi
<doko> I think one of you will attend the sprint next week
<minghua> doko: sure, any time
<doko> cool
<atie_> minghua, can you wait for a while?  I will ask it to the author of scim-hangul right now. 
<doko> would it be possible to have some testing done with OOo and scim interoperability? 
<minghua> atie_: the Japanese team doesn't want the -tables-ko package, but Chinese team definitely want -tables-zh package, so no, I am afraid not all -tables-* packags are equal :-)
<minghua> atie_: of course, thanks for asking him
<minghua> doko: is this sprint some kind of IRC workshop? 
<freeflying> doko: I can use these two together now
<minghua> doko: I can help on testing for sure
<doko> minghua: we could coordinate an irc meeting next week, sure
<minghua> atie_: s/-tables-ko/-tables-ja/
<freeflying> minghua: we are setting up the test team for ubuntu-cn team , so would you mind give some advice
<minghua> freeflying: I saw that on ubuntu-cn's forum, but what kind of advice are you looking for?   I don't have much experience on testing myself
<doko> freeflying, minghua: I'm interested in testing the following things: i386/gnome, amd64/gnome, i386/kde, amd64/kde
<minghua> just install the software, change the settings, try different features, I suppose?   that's how I test stuff
<minghua> doko: I don't have amd64 hardware, but I can test both for i386
<freeflying> doko: I can test i386/ppc for OOo and scim
<minghua> doko: if kde-core installed on ubuntu (instead of Kubuntu) qualifies as kde :-)
<doko> so nobody with access to amd64? 
<doko> minghua: that's ok
<minghua> freeflying: maybe you can ask around on ubuntu-cn? 
<minghua> not sure how many people use dapper there, though
<freeflying> no problem , I'd looking for some guys using amd64
<doko> it would be nice to find some tester for amd64 ;-)
<freeflying> doko: no problem
<minghua> doko: one thing you may consider is locale, I never could reproduce the "pasting chinese crashes OOo" bug in my en_US.UTF-8 locale
<doko> please make sure that any problems are filed in malone/launchpad
<minghua> doko: by the way, when you say you are going to work on ttf-dejavu "next week", is that the week starting at March 12? 
<minghua> doko: I am interested in dejavu font too and may prepare a patch for you
<minghua> doko: sure, I always use malone
<doko> minghua: sure, please make sure that your patch works with 2.1 and 2.3
<freeflying> minghua: as i comment on that bugs ,you shall try with zh_CN or ja_JP locales
<minghua> doko: will test for both 2.1 and 2.3. 
<doko> fine
<minghua> freeflying: I don't have time
<minghua> freeflying: I am not saying that bug is invalid, I am just saying it's locale dependent
<minghua> freeflying: which may help debugging
<freeflying> minghua: that bug is fixed now
<minghua> freeflying: yes I know that as well, I am subscribed to that bug
<minghua> doko: what should we do if the test result is good?   that doesn't suit for malone, I suppose? 
<doko> minghua: please email me which language/input method you tested
<mat|l> could any mono guy look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/blam/+bug/4839 ?  it's been broken for ages (since firefox 1.5 actually), and there is solution just waiting for someone to roll a new package with it in the bug comments for quite some time too
<Ubugtu> malone bug 4839 in blam "(dapper) blam stopped working" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<mat|l> tons of duplicates, too
<minghua> doko: okay, I'll do them at latest this weekend, I think. 
<doko> thanks
<minghua> freeflying, atie_: I am looking at bug #31731.   so now scim-gtk2-immodule is not installed by default?   what about scim-qtimm then?   if this bug is fixed, will -ko and -zh be changed as well? 
<Ubugtu> malone bug 31731 in language-support-ja "language-support-ja needs to be depended on scim-gtk2-immodule" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31731
<atie_> minghua, we don't need scim-tables-ko with language pack same as scim-tables-ja. 
<minghua> this is important because currently scim-hangul sets GTK_IM_MODULE to scim
<freeflying> minghua: both of them are not installed defaultly, I just wonder how to solve this  too
<minghua> atie_: file a bug and ask freeflying for a new upload of language-support-ko, then?   ;-)  (sorry I am not involved in the language pack work)
<atie_> minghua, OK anyway thx for checking that. 
<minghua> freeflying: I'll just wait for this, and probably change scim-hangul's im-switch priority if necessay in the end
<minghua> necessary*
<freeflying> minghua: there are two ,so the problem is let which package depend on these two ? 
<minghua> freeflying: which two?  scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm? 
<freeflying> minghua: ya
<minghua> freeflying: ubuntu-deskotp depends on scim now, right?   my opinion is that ubuntu-desktop should depend on scim-gtk2-immodule as well
<minghua> freeflying: I don't know much about KDE, but I suppose similar
<sistpoty> hm... only two votes in the poll for the next motu meeting... /me hopes it won't get as lonesome as last meeting was
<LaserJock> sistpoty: hmm, when is the next meeting? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: Fri, 10 March - 20.00 UTC
<freeflying> sistpoty: how about 12:00UTC
<minghua> but then again, installing scim-gtk2-immodule by default have the risk of getting hit hard by bug #2246
<Ubugtu> malone bug 2246 in acroread "can not start acroread in breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2246
<LaserJock> sistpoty: that works well for me ;-)
<sistpoty> freeflying: we had a poll for the date... I don't want to change it again, now that the poll is over
<minghua> sistpoty: I think I'll attend, although I am not an MOTU :-)
<sistpoty> :)
<freeflying> minghua: how about install these two defaultly
<minghua> freeflying: no idea about scim-qtimm.   but as I've said, installing scim-gtk2-immodule by default have a risk of getting hit by #2246
<minghua> freeflying: and I am pretty sure there is no way to install scim-qtimm on ubuntu, vice versa for scim-gtk2-immodule and kubuntu
<minghua> by default, that is, of course
<freeflying> minghua: on the contrary, they can be
<minghua> freeflying: I am saying installing them by default
<freeflying> minghua: ya
<minghua> freeflying: I bet you can persuade no one
<freeflying> minghua: ya, that's true
<freeflying> minghua: or hard to
<freeflying> minghua: I need scim-gtk2-immodule in kubuntu , also guys use ubuntu may use some qt/kde program
<minghua> freeflying: you can use XIM mode in GTK or Qt programs just fine
<freeflying> minghua: can we make scim modlue depend on then ? 
<minghua> freeflying: please rephrase, I don't understand
<freeflying> minghua: make scim-hangul depend on scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm
<atie_> if non-Korean speakers need scim-hangul, do we need scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm? 
<minghua> freeflying: no, that's improper, because scim-hangul works fine without scim-gtk2-immodule or scim-qtimm
<minghua> atie_: no, I suppose no.   Unless XIM mode doesn't work for Korean
<minghua> atie_: if you can use the scim-hangul_xim mode in im-switch just fine, then you don't need scim-gtk2-immodule or scim-qtimm
<atie_> minghua, in most cases scim is used with scim mode. 
<minghua> freeflying: and by the way, the dependency on scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm should be on scim package, not module packages (like scim-hangul)
<minghua> atie_: well, I don't know, quite some chinese users use XIM mode with scim
<minghua> atie_: I have no idea about the general picture, that's why I set scim mode to default
<atie_> minghua, freeflying , I think so, I prefer scim depends on both im module. 
<minghua> atie_: I am just saying it's possible to use scim with out scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm
<atie_> minghua, I understood. 
<minghua> atie_: scim currently recommends scim-gtk2-immodule, and I would object on scim depending on any of them, especially scim-qtimm
<atie_> but we're talking about a solution for the bug. 
<minghua> recommends is what I think is proper
<minghua> atie_: some package else (like ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop) should depend on them, not scim
<minghua> atie_: do you reallize what you suggest means that anybody using scim (even if they use icewm/fvwm) need to install all the GTK and KDE libraries? 
<freeflying> minghua: language-pack-kde-zh can not depend on these
<minghua> freeflying: scim shouldn't depend on these either
<minghua> freeflying: see my comment above
<atie_> minghua, then the bug can't be solved. :) 
<minghua> atie_: what's wrong with my proposal of ubuntu-desktop depending on scim-gtk2-immodule?   it is already depending on scim, no? 
<minghua> somebody need to tell me how this language support thing worked
<minghua> I don't know it at all
<ajmitch> more stuff that ubuntu-desktop depends on? 
<minghua> how you install scim/skim by default now, how you install scim-gtk2-immodule/scim-qtimm
<ajmitch> I guess you'd have to make sure that scim works *perfectly* if it's going to be installed by default :)
<atie_> minghua, what is difference between using scim and ubuntu-desktop? 
<minghua> there is no way for me to agree that scim should depending on scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm
<minghua> of course, whether I agree or not probably doesn't matter
<minghua> ajmitch: I am actually trying to do that.   scim can work in two mode, and different mode have different depedency.   I am trying to figure out what dependency will be installed by default, so that I can get the settings to the correct mode
<atie_> to me scim-immodules depend on scim is more logical than k/ubuntu-desktop... even some users don't install desktop package. 
<freeflying> ajmitch: scim can works quite pefectly now in dapper
<minghua> ajmitch: although I must admit neither of the mode works *perfectly* :-(  but I'll try my best to make them at least work
<ajmitch> freeflying: good, since it'll have to be supported for 3 years
<freeflying> ajmitch: ya, the upstream author will continue on 1.x release
<minghua> atie_, freeflying: I am not arguing on IRC anymore.   I'll open a bug in launchpad and post all my opinion there
<minghua> if there is no bug opened yet, that is
<atie_> minghua, that's good.  and also please use the scim wiki... :)
<minghua> freeflying: I wouldn't call that perfectly, especially with bug #2246 still around
<Ubugtu> malone bug 2246 in acroread "can not start acroread in breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2246
<minghua> atie_: I am afraid I won't post arguments on wiki, I'll only post conclusions
<atie_> minghua, I thought it's discussion. 
<atie_> minghua, so need to see opened one too. 
<minghua> atie_: I don't.   I have expressed all my opinions and apparently can't convince you.   There is nothing for me to discuss anymore. 
<minghua> atie_: and if I post my opinions on wiki, it will look as if it's decided.   I don't want to give that impression
<atie_> minghua, I mean not only you, freeflying and myself, other devs and people need to see. :) 
<minghua> atie_: I don't think the wiki page will be seen by more people than a bug
<minghua> atie_: feel free to paste pointers to the bug on wiki, I am not going to do that myself though
<atie_> minghua, OK up to you. 
<minghua> still nobody told me how scim is installed by default now
* minghua sighs and goes check himself
<minghua> atie_, freeflying: I'll follow up in bug #31731, as apparently only language-support-{zh,ko,ja} installs scim by default now
<Ubugtu> malone bug 31731 in language-support-ja "language-support-ja needs to be depended on scim-gtk2-immodule" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31731
<jaldhar> minghua: do you know if dapper will include skim?   (my ubuntu box is still on breezy)
<minghua> jaldhar: from what I heard, dapper will have skim in main.   and CJK language installs for KDE will install them by default (but other language won't)
<minghua> jaldhar: but I am not really involved in this, you may want to ask freeflying instead
<atie_> minghua, freeflying bye... I got to go... bye all. 
<jaldhar> minghua: ok will do
<jaldhar> btw, a general question to all: is dapper in a reasonably stable situation right now or should I wait till the release? 
<jaldhar> I use kubuntu on my laptop and it's ok for it to be a little bit unstable but I do need to do work with it
<dolson> jaldhar: I'm running Dapper / GNOME and it's fine for me.. YMMV
<dolson> does the Microsoft Shared Source License meet the requirements to be in debian/ubuntu? 
<ajmitch> dolson: which one?  there are a few licenses
<dolson> the one that Firefox2 might be released under
<ajmitch> 'might be'
<ajmitch> more rumours & speculation? 
<sistpoty> oh, congrats for membership, dolson ;)
<dolson> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox2/StatusMeetings/2006-03-07#Alpha_1_Status
<dolson> thanks sistpoty :D
<LaserJock> yeah, way to go dolson :-)
<ajmitch> if it's not I'm sure they'll hear about it
<dolson> thanks LaserJock :)
<dolson> I was kinda surprised to see that they'd go with a Microsoft license
<dolson> "might" I mean
<freeflying> jaldhar: it's up to yourself at all , dapper is in development after all
<dolson> I still wonder about point #9 in that license "Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this license." 
<ajmitch> dolson: standard license clause
<ajmitch> if it's the license they link to, they're crazy
<dolson> I assume that if they use that license, that they will change it to "Mozilla Foundation" or something other than Microsoft? 
<dolson> in which case, is it even the "Microsoft" S. S. L. anymore
<ajmitch> yes, they would
<jaldhar> freeflying: ah what the hell I'll do it this weekend.   Btw, did you see my question to minghua? 
<ajmitch> and I really really doubt they'll use this one
<freeflying> jaldhar: kubuntu will include skim
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jaldhar> freeflying: cool.  thanks
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch been a while dude
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, a couple of days since I saw you online
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, i've been busy and flying tomorrow
* jaldhar still hasn't gotten around to doing his MOTU membership
<jsgotangco> and next week will be flying again outside
<dolson> ajmitch: after a bit of research, I think someone found that link through Digg and registered an account to make that edit and spread FUD
<ajmitch> dolson: lovely! 
<ajmitch> dolson: btw, the ubuntustudio wiki page says that ubuntu is nearly useless for music work due to lack of realtime-preempt patches - I thought they weren't needed? 
<dolson> they are needed
<dolson> but the patch is huge!  over 1MB
<ajmitch> and very intrusive, I imagine
<dolson> likely.. but it really is needed unless you use high latencies in JACK
<ajmitch> and policy is that we don't carry multiple kernels
<dolson> well, Mark said to me "don't worry, you'll get it"
<dolson> so whatever that means
<jsgotangco> a derivative is what you'll get
<jsgotangco> hehe
* sistpoty is now off to bed... gn8 everyone
<ajmitch> dolson: that shared source edit does look very suspicious, doesn't it? :) 
<dolson> he said something about some brazillians that will do it and something about moobuntu or something like that
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: sure, why not?  there are server kernels now, so why not music kernels? :) 
<dolson> ajmitch: yeah, heh.. I shoulda checked that first
<ajmitch> it's part of what launchpad is designed for
<dolson> one of my guys made a patch for Dapper's kernel
<dolson> but I have horrible issues with it
<dolson> as in, everything works ok, *except* my music apps :P
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> that is an issue
<dolson> a small one, yeah
<dolson> so I'll just use a vanilla kernel for now.  I think forest is working on figuring out a better way
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, do you have toys to play with big iron? 
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: don't be silly
<ajmitch> the fastest box I have is my laptop
<jsgotangco> muhahahaha
<ajmitch> some of us poor, struggling individuals have to make do with so little..
<jsgotangco> me too
<desrt> tseng; i don't think it will happen :)
<desrt> tseng; unless it was in universe before (which it seems it was not) you have to get approval from mdz or colin
<nmsa> Hello
<ajmitch> hi
<nmsa> ajmitch: how are you?  got some questions
<ajmitch> alright, ask away
<nmsa> I would like to include boinc in next release
<nmsa> currently I see only support for kde
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> is this a new package? 
<nmsa> is used for seti@home
<nmsa> apt-search gives me only kde packages, nothing for gnome
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> we're already past the inclusion date for new packages
<nmsa> can i ?  next release is 6.04 + 1
<nmsa> not ready for 6.04
<nmsa> I will not be
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> if you want to package it, and t's free to distribute, and noone else is doing it, then go ahead
<nmsa> where shall I look for info to see if someone else is doing it ?  wiki? 
<ajmitch> revu.tauware.de
<ajmitch> and it doesn't appear to be on there
<nmsa> MOTU/Packages/Candidates reports nothing as well
<nmsa> so no one is working on it
<ajmitch> I guess if the software is free then you can work on it
<nmsa> shall I put myself on a list somewhere as working on it or just start working ? 
<nmsa> is free
<ajmitch> do you know what license it is under? 
<nmsa> I don't see any liceses on the main page, but I'll look harder
<ajmitch> ah, LGPL in some source files
<ajmitch> looks fine
<nmsa> GNU Free Documentation License
<Lathiat> but its not free!! 
* Lathiat hdies
<Lathiat> *hides
<nmsa> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php
<ajmitch> manual would be under GFDL
<Lathiat> nmsa: the new stuff sucks
<ajmitch> source won't be
<Lathiat> nmsa: the old windows client was much better
<Lathiat> and the linux client is just harder to use now
<Lathiat> than it was beforre
<nmsa> Lathiat: I run the client and manager on a few boxes and wrok fine, just the GUI is "ugly" imho :)
<nmsa> plus I see a few problems while behind a proxy
<Lathiat> im runnign SETI on both cores of my athlon64 x2 4200+
<Lathiat> eats through WUs :)
<ajmitch> how's that box going? 
<Lathiat> ajmitch: good :)
<Lathiat> now i got rid of the shitty onboard sound
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> got a sound blaster live 5.1
<Lathiat> win win
* ajmitch might order parts for his box next week
<Lathiat> back in the land of .nz ? 
<ajmitch> not yet :(
<Lathiat> or still down under? 
<nmsa> cpu 92.4  mem 3.2  time 14:49.05 commandsetiathome_4.02
<Lathiat> despite being above your usual location
* ajmitch wants to leave this hellish country asap ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> what are you doing over here anyway
<ajmitch> C#
<ajmitch> evils
<nmsa> so I'll go ahead on boinc, ok? 
<ajmitch> sure
<nmsa> thank you, go to run to the office, speak to you later guys, have a good day :)
<zakame> hi MOTUs
<ArmeBosse> freeflying: log4cpp, klibido and kvpnc updated
<ArmeBosse> hi zakame
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<zakame> heya ArmeBosse Hobbsee
<freeflying> zakame: hey
<Gloubiboulga> hey zakame
<Hobbsee> argh!   who changed the malone search? 
* ajmitch just says hi all
<freeflying> ArmeBosse: hey
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> 90% of recent conversation being 'hi $PERSON'
<zakame> heya freeflying Gloubiboulga
<zakame> grr I'm having bad dialup this past week and now :(
<Hobbsee> how do i sort bugs for a package in malone by last modified date? 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sacrifice a chicken & dance to the 4 winds? 
* Hobbsee frowns
<Hobbsee> any other way to do it? 
<ajmitch> it'd probably do as much good
<ajmitch> not that I recall, sorry
<ajmitch> how are you anyway? ;) 
<Hobbsee> or do the bug ID's go up sequentially with the date? 
* ajmitch hopes Hobbsee doesn't really go & sacrifice a chicken
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> they do go up by date
<zakame> heh, hi Ubugtu
<Hobbsee> ah, good, so i can sort that way
<ajmitch> but that's date filed, not last modified date
<Hobbsee> hmmm...true
<Hobbsee> better than nothing though
<ajmitch> yes
<Hobbsee> and as for how i am, i'm getting kinda annoyed at people who write vague bugs with no steps to reproduce them! 
<ajmitch> join the club
<ajmitch> "f-spot/beagle/banshee is broken!!!  omg wat do i do?" 
<ajmitch> ok, time to disconnect
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> ok, have fun
<zakame> mmmm, chicken....
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: or this one https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/26527
<Ubugtu> malone bug 26527 in kdenetwork kopete "Kopete makes the whole O.S. get frozen" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<Hobbsee> as far as i'm concerned, i cant reproduce that on my system, so...
<Hobbsee> it's probably pre-kde3.5.1
<siretart> morning
<zachy> hello siretart
<siretart> has anyone seen \sh lately? 
<siretart> we really should get wine uploaded RSN so that users can test it
<minghua> siretart: reading his blog, it seems he is having a hard time
<minghua> siretart: I doubt he has time for wine work
<netzmeister> good morning
<minghua> Same goes for libtiff, which our
<minghua> friends over at Debian screwed up (libtiff broke ABI compat with
<minghua> version 3.6.1, so debian changed its soname to so.4--making it
<minghua> impossible for a binary built on a debian-based distro to work
<minghua> anywhere else, and vise-versa). 
<minghua> and they call this "debian screwed up"? 
* minghua sighs
<Riddell> Kyral: hmm? 
<Riddell> Kyral: no, you're not
<phanatic> hi people
<highvoltage> phanatic: and geeks
<phanatic> highvoltage: :)
<phanatic> hi raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<phanatic> will send you another review in some minutes :)
<raphink> dholbach: ok then I'll merge digikam :)
<raphink> phanatic: ok
<dholbach> cool
<raphink> :)
<phanatic> raphink: mail sent
<raphink> ok
<raphink> phanatic: do you mind if I review your review? 
<raphink> ;)
<Gloubiboulga> raphink, hello :)
<phanatic> raphink: no :)
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> raphink, could you run revu-report on texmaker, and maybe review it if the report is ok ? 
<raphink> phanatic: there's no policy regarding Homepage:.  It is nice to advice using it, but it's not required and there's no required shape for it
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic
<raphink> Gloubiboulga: sure, wait a min
<Gloubiboulga> np raphink
<phanatic> raphink: i think there is (read in one of the debian policies, but can't remember which)
<phanatic> and i was taught to use it like this ;)
<raphink> ok
<minghua> phanatic, raphink: are you talking abotu the debian/copyright or package description? 
<raphink> phanatic: your comments are good, but I think they could be a bit more explicative.  For example the 5.0.7 for debhelper is no magic trick, you get it with the version of the package, etc. 
<raphink> minghua: debian/control
<minghua> raphink: package description then?   I am pretty sure homepage is not required there
<raphink> minghua: I know it is not, that's what I said :)
<phanatic> raphink: okay, i admit that it's only a tiny issue...
<phanatic> minghua: not required, but once included, it is supposed to begin with a space
<minghua> raphink: yeah, and I am backing you up :-)
<raphink> phanatic: well when you refer to Homepage in debian/control, you can use dholbach's expression of "get more points for this".  This is referenced as a nice packaging practice, but it is not required
<raphink> minghua: :)
<minghua> raphink: you seems to be giving in ;-)
<raphink> phanatic: still I agree it is nice to advice it, since its' a great info to have in Description, very useful
<raphink> minghua: :)
<dholbach> did i say that? " get more points"? :) 
<minghua> phanatic: that's true, I remember reading something similar
<raphink> dholbach: didn't you? 
<dholbach> not sure :)
<raphink> dholbach: I'm pretty sure it's from you i've stolen this expression ;)
<raphink> lol
<raphink> or a similar one
<phanatic> raphink: it's already included in the description, but not well "formatted"
<raphink> I might have changed the contents a bit but I keep the copyright ;)
<raphink> phanatic: sure, just remember that "not well" is no policy in this case, just a an advice and should sound so
<raphink> ;)
<phanatic> raphink: okay, next time i'll be careful ;)
<raphink> :)
<phanatic> i'm going offline now... i'm at uni :)
<phanatic> bye
<ArmeBosse> raphink: un autre passage en revu si tu as le temps ? 
<Tonio_> hello
<tux> hi
<Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_
<Tonio_> hello Gloubiboulga
<Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: we need to check out what happens with *netswitch
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Tonio_> better ask elmo or kamion
<kelmo_lap> hi siretart
<siretart> hi kelmo_lap
<siretart> kelmo_lap: you probably noticed that I worked on some documentation in our experimental branch.  Do you think that branch is ready for debian/experimental? 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, err, i'd like to see a few more days please
<siretart> ok
<kelmo_lap> and i'll elaborate on that shortly
<siretart> great :)
<kelmo_lap> but, i agree it is getting close to that target ; )
<kelmo_lap> i have some small issues that need discussion
<kelmo_lap> finer points of the pre-up / wpa_sp / wpa_cli interactions
<siretart> ah
<kelmo_lap> specifically: providing the ssid/psk/passwrd etc in ascii or hew
<kelmo_lap> s/hew/hex
<kelmo_lap> i do not think you'll like what i'm about to say
<siretart> we'll see
<kelmo_lap> bu it *is* what upstream has provided us
<kelmo_lap> but*
<kelmo_lap> ascii stuff needs to be "inside"
<kelmo_lap> hew stuff needs no quoting
<kelmo_lap> hex* <jeez>
<kelmo_lap> so, to handle both, ascii stuff should be quoted in the e/n/i stanza
<kelmo_lap> wpa-ssid "MadWifiAP"
<kelmo_lap> for example
<kelmo_lap> wpa-psk "ascii.secret"
<crimsun> no, we should not force users to meticulously use anything different from ordinary wireless-extensions syntax
<kelmo_lap> alternatively, we'd have to handle typsetting of these vars
<kelmo_lap> crimsun, this is what Jouni has provided us
<crimsun> if /e/n/i allows ascii without quotes, _we_ need to quote them behind the scenes
<kelmo_lap> ok, suggestions to minimally handle hex? 
<kelmo_lap> and distinguish between hex and asci
<kelmo_lap> as provided by e/n/i
<crimsun> w-e uses s:foo and foo
<kelmo_lap> wpa_supplicany does not ; )
<crimsun> foo is assumed to be hex, s:foo an ascii
<kelmo_lap> hmm
<kelmo_lap> that is handle by w-e. but not its ifupdown script, afaik
<kelmo_lap> handled*
<kelmo_lap> damn my typing sucks . . . 
<crimsun> well we're going to have to write our own ifupdown parsers, so to speak, anyway
<kelmo_lap> mmm
<kelmo_lap> well, let me commit the last stuff i just worked on
<kelmo_lap> then you can give me some directive for the next few days ; )
<kelmo_lap> ok, we can now append a new network to any existing configuration
<MrFaber_> hi all
<MrFaber_> Does anyone know the loop-aes-source maintainer for dapper? 
<azeem> apt-cache showsrc loop-aes-source | grep ^Maint ? 
<MrFaber_> azeem, thanks
<MrFaber_> with mail address, cool
<MrFaber_> in launchpad was no mail address afaik
<MrFaber_> thx
<azeem> MrFaber_: eh, wait
<azeem> what do you want to do? 
<azeem> MrFaber_: that guy is probably maintaining it for Debian only, so there is no use in mailing him
<azeem> MrFaber_: if you have issues or feature requests for the package you should file a bug in Malone, I guess
<MrFaber_> azeem, ups
<MrFaber_> :)
<MrFaber_> BTW I have made a bug report in malone
<MrFaber_> weeks ago
<MrFaber_> azeem, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230
<Ubugtu> malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<MrFaber_> azeem, but Launchpad is very strange to manage imho
<MrFaber_> Ubugtu, thats it
<MrFaber_> damn, I have already send the mail :)
<kelmo_lap> crimsun, siretart, any ideas about hex/ascii before i detach tonight? 
<crimsun> none fleshed out, in a meeting atm
<MrFaber_> Ok, so there is no way to got contact information for the ubuntu maintainer? 
<azeem> MrFaber_: the MOTUs are the Ubuntu maintainer
<kelmo_lap> crimsun, no probs, will be back to think again another time
<MrFaber_> azeem, And who is the MOTU for loop-aes? :) 
<azeem> MrFaber_: universe is team maintained, there is no destinct maintainer for each pacakge
<MrFaber_> debian sid loop-aes-source works fine under  dapper
<MrFaber_> so theoretically only a merge is needed
<MrFaber_> azeem, ok
<azeem> MrFaber_: then you should add that information to the bug if you haven't done so
<azeem> and get a MOTU to request a sync
<azeem> it's a new upstream version though, so that might not be easy
<MrFaber_> How request a sync? 
<azeem> I am not the best to ask about those procedural issues
<MrFaber_> azeem, ok, I have changed the description
<MrFaber_> azeem, thanks anyway
<MrFaber_> azeem, but who is the launchpad expert? :) 
<torkel> MrFaber_: the guys in #launchpad :-)
<MrFaber_> LOL
<MrFaber_> :) ok thanks
<MrFaber_> azeem, MrFaber_, I suggest you go back to #ubuntu-motu, because I can't really understand what you're doing
<MrFaber_> and torkel :)
<MrFaber_> I feel like Asterix and Obelix in the house with the passes :)
<MrFaber_> So every MOTU can change universe packages? 
<MrFaber_> *every universe package
<freeflying> shall we included the README.Debian in debian/ dir ? 
<azeem> freeflying: only if you have something to say in it
<crimsun> MrFaber_: yes.  We maintain universe and multiverse as a team. 
<freeflying> need all package use debhelper5? 
<azeem> freeflying: no, only if you use the new features
<kelmo_lap> siretart, perhaps we should add a small preinst to clean up legacy init scripts
<azeem> using debhelper5 makes backporting harder, so I think one should Depend on it if not necessary
<MrFaber_> crimsun, who can fix loop-aes-source :)
<crimsun> MrFaber_: anyone can fix it
<freeflying> azeem: and how about the docs file n debian/ dir
<MrFaber_> Who is anyone ;)
<azeem> freeflying: what about it? 
<freeflying> azeem: included with README TODO ,etc. 
<MrFaber_> crimsun, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230
<Ubugtu> malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<MrFaber_> I like Ubugtu :)
<azeem> freeflying: I'd check those files whether they have something useful to say
<azeem> freeflying: if they are just boilerplate, I wouldn't include the
<freeflying> azeem: actually , we can use rules to solve these file
<azeem> freeflying: that's the other possibility, yes
<freeflying> azeem: is the dirs necessiry? 
<azeem> freeflying: it's used by dh_installdirs
<MrFaber_> Should I bake a cake so that loop-aes-source gets fixed/merged?  :D
<freeflying> azeem: the packager has provider .install
<azeem> MrFaber_: search the wiki for the proper procedure
<crimsun> freeflying: I can't get to it right now; I'm in a meeting. 
<crimsun> freeflying: sorry
<crimsun> MrFaber_: I can't get to it right now; I'm in a meeting. 
<azeem> freeflying: dirs is rather during make install time, .install is afterwards
<MrFaber_> not today
<MrFaber_> not tomorrow
<azeem> freeflying: properly written build systems shouldn't use it, so I'd just remove it and see whether there are problems
<MrFaber_> only before dapper release please
<MrFaber_> :)
<freeflying> azeem: some guy dosen't provide description in his patch , is that ok ? 
<azeem> freeflying: are you reviewing packages on REVU, or what kind of patch are you talking about exactly? 
<siretart> kelmo_lap: sorry for not being responsive atm, I'm at university right now. 
<freeflying> azeem: I'm reviewing on REVU
<kelmo_lap> siretart, this is what irc is all about, no need fr apologies
<siretart> :)
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i dropped some code into pre-up to calculate the last network_id, then we create the new network block on last_network_id++
<kelmo_lap> siretart, so we could possibly define new networks on top of an existing configuration
<kelmo_lap> siretart, the code is mawk compatible
<siretart> hm.  I'm not sure if its worth the efford.  for more complex setups we can assume the user to be able to supply a working wpa_supplicant conf and fall back to mode 2
<siretart> cool
<kelmo_lap> no, it is quite simple
<kelmo_lap> so its no burden
<siretart> ah, cool
<kelmo_lap> although it did take some time to test it ; )
<siretart> if its already 'there' :)
<freeflying> azeem: also we shall remove config.guess and config.sub
<kelmo_lap> siretart, awk power, i'm signing off
<kelmo_lap> gn8
<azeem> freeflying: so about the patch question:  patches need not be commented, though if the patch system allows (I think all do), having a comment at the top of each patch (or in debian/changelog) would be nice to have
<freeflying> azeem: if you provide patch , then the patch shall be put under debian/patches , right ? 
<azeem> that's good practise, yes
<azeem> if you modify a current package, I think you should follow its current practise though, however sensible it is
<kelmo_lap> siretart, just one thing, i put a TODO file into svn, so we can track some items that require attention there
<kelmo_lap> siretart, so please add some items that require work there, if you like
<freeflying> azeem: also we shall remove config.guess and config.sub
<azeem> freeflying: I don't the context of that
<azeem> better ask the whole channel, somebody else might know better
<siretart> kelmo_lap: great idea
<freeflying> siretart:  shall we remove config.guess and config.sub from package
<TMM> hey, odd question: is it possible to run ubuntu 32bit with the amd64 kernel? 
<Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 32 in 3270 "3270: 5250 emulation code, all rights reserved" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32
<TMM> 32bit kernel b0rks on the agp bus of a friends computer, but, his @#$@#$ lexmark drivers won't run in amd64
<TMM> also, he likes to play return to castle wolfenstein
<TMM> the alternative would be to run cups in a chroot...
<siretart> freeflying: yes, its a good idea to clean them in the 'clean' target of debian/rules
<freeflying> siretart: thx
<ejofee> i've just heard that ubuntu wants to adopt lindows' click'n'run.  if this happens, then how will it avoid breaking some of the strong promises made by ubuntu, that (approx) "there will never be an extra price for a commercial version"? 
<hub> ejofee: heard where? 
<ejofee> every
<ejofee> (where)
<hub> url? 
<ejofee> hub: wait
<ejofee> hub: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7474779842.html
<ejofee> hub: linspire is actually lindows
<ejofee> hub: if that happens, do you think it won't mean breaking that promise? 
<hub> I classify that as "speculation"
<ejofee> hub: wow, that'd be cool
<ejofee> (to be mere speculation)
<ejofee> hub: do you think ubuntu devs would be against cnr anyway? 
<ejofee> hub: what a silly (manipulative) way to put it: "No way!  Linspire is evil and I want nothing to do with them! ( 9 percent)"
<ejofee> "there will never be an extra price for a commercial version" is what i like most about ubuntu. 
<siretart> ejofee: lindows is considering offering such a service.  not ubuntu
<ejofee> Ubuntu users could choose to simply use apt, OR, for those who want the one-click convenience of CNR, they could try CNR for free for 15 days, and if they like it, pay for the service [$20 per year] 
<ejofee> siretart: lindows earns the money with cnr, while ubuntu doesn't; won't this become a tempting business model for ubuntu? 
<siretart> ejofee: ubuntu doesn't earn any money, canonical does
<ejofee> siretart: access to codecs repos (and howtos on that) could be made more non-trivial, just like mandriva non-(club members) lack some privileges. 
<siretart> ejofee: canonical has not commented yet on this, but I doubt they have interest
<siretart> ejofee: if you could provide access to codec repos, we would do.  unfortunately, we cannot
<siretart> err, if we could provide
<ejofee> siretart: i don't only doubt.  i also hope not. 
<siretart> out of question, right
<ejofee> whatever canonical's business model, i hope they'll observe this principle: never to charge for software or access to software, but only services or (strictly) customized distros. 
<hub> hey dholbach_
* hub see people traveling
<hub> ....
* hub just wished he was traveling more
<LaserJock> morning MOTUs
<LaserJock> anybody know what the default Python version is in Debian stable? 
<azeem> 2.3
<azeem> ii  python            2.3.5-2
<LaserJock> so python2.3 for stable, testing, and unstable? 
<azeem> I think so, yes
<LaserJock> azeem: k, thanks
<LaserJock> azeem: I've got a question for you regarding GaussSum
<azeem> sure
<LaserJock> azeem: it is about the Python version dependencies.  I made a stable build for upstream to distribute on their website. 
<LaserJock> azeem: in the debian/control I've got ${python:Depends} in the dependecy
<LaserJock> azeem: when I build the .deb I end up with  python (>= 2.3), python (<< 2.4)
<LaserJock> azeem: but it works fine with python2.4 so should I manually set the Python dependency
<azeem> hrm, unfortunately, I don't quite see through all this python policy mess either
<azeem> can you remind me whether it ships any files in /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages or so? 
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it just uses python
<azeem> I'd say it would be fine to just depend on `python' then, but don't take this as authorative
<LaserJock> doh, wait, it does actually
<LaserJock> sorry, I had to go back and check
<azeem> LaserJock: well, not sure then, with all that byte-compiling or not and stuff
<azeem> there have been talks about clarifying/unifying python policy in Debian, but nothing conclusive yet I think
<LaserJock> azeem: I've got to go right now.  I'll read over the Python Policy again and check in with you in about an hour. 
<azeem> LaserJock: maybe ask doko if he's around
<azeem> I gotta go now as well
<LaserJock> ok
<Xoritor> ok so i have most of this working only i am not sure how (where) to "install" the binaires (built by pbuilder) in the install section of the debian/rules file
<Xoritor> anyone give me a hint? 
<Xoritor> it needs to end up being installed into /usr/sbin/
<Xoritor> ie... dpkg or apt installing the .deb needs to place the binary in /usr/sbin
<Xoritor> but my sources are not "automake friendly"
<Xoritor> :-(
<Xoritor> so i am trying to use an install line directly
<Xoritor> install binary /usr/sbin/binary does not work
<Xoritor> any tips? 
<crimsun> no, if you're specifying the path in debian/rules, you need to make the path relative to $(pwd)
<crimsun> i.e., $(pwd)/debian/$package/usr/sbin/
<Xoritor> ok
<crimsun> where $package is either the name of the package or 'tmp' depending on your dh usage
<Xoritor> i also tried this
<crimsun> keep in mind you can also use debian/foo.install
<Xoritor> install binary $(CURDIR)/debian/usr/sbin/binary
<Xoritor> hmm
<Xoritor> which would be better? 
<crimsun> that's maintainer preference
<Xoritor> but that didnt work cause i need the "package name" right? 
<crimsun> yes, foo is the package name
<crimsun> if you want to place a specific binary somewhere, then it's probably easier to use debian/rules
<crimsun> s/binary/file/
<Xoritor> yea
<Xoritor> so it should be something like  install binary $(CURDIR)/debian/foo/usr/sbin/binary
<Xoritor> the exact error is
<Xoritor> install: cannot create regular file `/tmp/buildd/snortsam-2.47/debian/snortsam-2.47/usr/sbin/snortsam': No such file or directory
<crimsun> debian/snortsam-2.47/ seems incorrect
<crimsun> i.e., your package name should NOT be snortsam-2.47
<Xoritor> aah
<Xoritor> so just snortsam? 
<crimsun> yes; isn't that what you specified in debian/control? 
<Xoritor> that seems to have worked... thx...
<Xoritor> heh
<crimsun> in the future, debugging using install -D will probably help
<Xoritor> yay
<Xoritor> aaah yes... i should have thought of that
<Xoritor> thx again crimsun
<crimsun> np
<Xoritor> that did the trick just right
<Xoritor> this is my very first package from 100% complete scratch
<Xoritor> hehehe
<LaserJock> anybody got gmail  here? 
<crimsun> yes but rarely used
<LaserJock> crimsun: umm, I'd like to get one. 
<crimsun> just ask in #ubuntu
<crimsun> because I never use mine, I don't have any offers
<LaserJock> crimsun: ahh, good idea
<crimsun> s/offers/invites/
<Xoritor> i thought anyone could sign up now
<LaserJock> Xoritor: I couldn't see where. 
<LaserJock> and since I know *everybody* has got one I thought it would be easier just to get somebody to invite me
<Xoritor> lol
<Xoritor> right
<BlueT_> LaserJock: i have gmail invitation :)
<Xoritor> i would but i dont have gmail
<Xoritor> heh
<Xoritor> my wife does so if you cant get a quick invite let me know and i will get her to invite you
<BlueT_> LaserJock: would you like to have one? :) 
<crimsun> he has one now
<BlueT_> crimsun: okay :)
<Xoritor> i would like $1
<Xoritor> :-D
<Xoritor> with that i could get some chocolate
<BlueT_> ubuntu-* are really the most friendly communities in the world. :) 
<Xoritor> i agree
* BlueT_ /dcc send Xoritor some chocolate
<BlueT_> Xoritor: :p
<Xoritor> i worked for Red Hat for 3 years and they are nice but not AS nice
<Xoritor> thanks! 
<Xoritor> heh
<BlueT_> ooops...
<BlueT_> what did i do?  lol
<LaserJock> hmm, did BlueT_ just get kicked from #ubuntu
<crimsun> yes
<LaserJock> gotta watch that dcc stuff I guess
<crimsun> Ubugtu kicks on any public string with "dcc send"
<LaserJock> yikes
<BlueT_> oops. 
<Xoritor> doh
<Xoritor> thx anyways ;-)
<crimsun> removed. 
<BlueT_> and i'm banned :S
<crimsun> no, you're unbanned. 
<BlueT_> crimsun: thx so much, crimsun :)
<Xoritor> thx crimsun i was about to start feeling bad
<crimsun> np
<BlueT_> i guess maybe i should login here from (apt|www).ubuntu.org.tw next time..
<ejofee> does dapper include xgl? 
<BlueT_> ejofee: yes
<ejofee> oh, right, i have just been directed to #ubuntu-xgl.  thank you anyway. 
<BlueT_> ejofee: my pleasure :)
<Xoritor> hehe
<Xoritor> but not for amd64 yet right... last i read it was all still compile your own for amd64
<Xoritor> of course i could be wrong
* Xoritor is frequently wrong
<Xoritor> is it acceptable to link from /etc/snortsam.conf to /etc/snortsam/snortsam.conf
<Xoritor> or from /etc/snortsam/snortsam.conf to /etc/snortsam.conf
<crimsun> why for, backward compatibility? 
<Xoritor> just cause thats where snortsam looks for its config by default
<Xoritor> its not hard to have the init script tell it where to find it
<crimsun> it makes more sense to pass a custom conffile location to the initscript
<Xoritor> to me also... just testing the waters
<crimsun> really depends how you wish to organise it
<Xoritor> i wish it neat and in its own dir
<Xoritor> ;-)
<crimsun> that would be my pref, too
<Xoritor> contained not cluttered
<Xoritor> then have a defaults that specifies the location of the config file and use that in the init.d script
<LaserJock> hi marcin
<marcin> LaserJock: hi
<lucas> hi
<LaserJock> hi lucas
<Xoritor> is there a dh_something that installs the stuff into /etc/default/packagename from the debian/packagename-default location? 
<Xoritor> ie... dh_installinit installs the init.d script into /etc/init.d as packagename
<Xoritor> ah ha
<Xoritor> never mind
<Xoritor> missed it in the manual
<Xoritor> it should be named as packagename.default not packagename-default
<siretart> is anyone besides \sh working on wine? 
<Xoritor> not i... (maybe my wife is working on a good bottle of wine right now?) 
<Xoritor> j/k
<Xoritor> sorry couldnt resist
<LarstiQ> Hi, I only recently upgraded to dapper, and now I discover zsh has a too old version in the archive.  What would be the correct procedure to ask for a new one? 
<LarstiQ> disregarding freezes and all that for now
<Xoritor> email the maintainer i would guess
<Xoritor> check the bug lists/reports for others wanting it updated
<LarstiQ> that's still set to Clint, who maintains it in Debian.  I'm not sure he really does Ubuntu
<LarstiQ> Xoritor: none there
<Xoritor> see if there is a reason not to update
<Xoritor> you can do what im doing also... i will have the fix for them :-D
<Xoritor> heh
<LarstiQ> Xoritor: hmm, imminent release of dapper, that's all
<Xoritor> yea
<LarstiQ> but I'd like my shell of choice to actually work with utf8 in dapper
<Xoritor> well i figure if i can get the stuff built and maintain it for dapper then by the next release it may be fixed ;-)
<Xoritor> or updated
<Xoritor> or upgraded
<Xoritor> or...
<Xoritor> so thats what i am doing... fixing it myself and seeing if the maintainers want to use what i have done
<Xoritor> but then thats the "hard way"
<Xoritor> asking them for a fix is the easy way...
<LarstiQ> the debian package works fine, so not much work required I'd say
<Xoritor> so its up to you... fix it yourself and suggest your fix be used, or ask them to fix it
<Xoritor> i prefer to do the work and let them choose if they want to use it... and if they dont i still can
<LarstiQ> right. 
<Xoritor> if i were the maintainer and someone fixed it for me i would be happy (if they did it right)... and after checking i would happily include it (again if it were done right)
<LaserJock> LarstiQ: is the zsh version too old in Ubuntu or in Debian too? 
<LarstiQ> LaserJock: only in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> LarstiQ: we could ask for a UVF exception
<LarstiQ> LaserJock: I believe the Sid version was at 4.3 before the UVF set in, but my memory might fool me
<LaserJock> zsh |    4.3.1-1 |      unstable
<LaserJock> zsh | 4.2.5-23ubuntu2 |        dapper
<LarstiQ> first upload of 4.3 was december 27th
<LarstiQ> LaserJock: how do we go about asking for the exception? 
<LaserJock> LarstiQ: is it in Main or Universe? 
<LaserJock> Main it looks like
<LarstiQ> main
<LaserJock> hmm, I would talk to -devel
<LaserJock> you would probably need to get mdz or Kamion to ok it
<LaserJock> LarstiQ: the info needed will be changelogs and debdiffs with diff stats.  Take a look at the ubuntu-motu mailing list archives if you need some ideas
<LaserJock> netzmeister: Guten Abend! 
<netzmeister> hi LaserJock  ;-)
<netzmeister> good evening
<LarstiQ> LaserJock: -devel the list or the channel?  Changelog and debdiff are easy to provide
<crimsun> 4.2.5 -> 4.3.1 is a rather big change
<LaserJock> LarstiQ: You might start with the channel
<LaserJock> netzmeister: Wie geht es dir? 
<LarstiQ> crimsun: yeah, I'm surprised it is still at 4.2
* siretart is using the zsh-beta in dapper.  WFM
<LaserJock> ah, interesting
<LarstiQ> siretart: yeah, I installed that for now too
<netzmeister> LaserJock:  fine, thx.  and you? 
<LaserJock> netzmeister: gut, danke
<netzmeister> LaserJock:  ;-)
<netzmeister> LaserJock:  Do you use a translator? 
<LaserJock> netzmeister: not yet
<LaserJock> netzmeister: beschftigt, aber gut
<LaserJock> that was though
<siretart> hey, LaserJock learning german.  great :)
<LaserJock> siretart: yeah, now that I'm a MOTU I thought I should learn the language ;-)
<siretart> hrhr
<LaserJock> I'm tired of being a unilingual American so I thought I'd try to pick some up
<LaserJock> I'd like to learn some French to so I can go visit raphink
<siretart> uuh, I'd need to improve my french a lot
<siretart> I had it in school for 4 years..
<netzmeister> hmm i'd need to improve my german :-D
<siretart> lol
<LaserJock> hmm, I need to figure out how to be able to type in German in OSX
<siretart> just use oe, ue and ae for umlauts
<LaserJock> yikes, I can change to a German keyboard layout
* siretart hates german keybord layouts
<siretart> us layouts are so much better to code
<LaserJock> ahh, I figured out how to use the US extended layout to do the funky stuff ;-)
<LaserJock> so is beschftigt really "busy"?  seems kinda long
<lucas> I've been unable to keep up with ubuntu development.  Could sbody update me regarding syncs status ? 
<lucas> are syncs processed now ? 
<LaserJock> they don't seem to be
<LaserJock> a few maybe but I haven't seen any of mine roll by
<lucas> this is starting to be annoying, a month from the release
<crimsun> lucas: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
<lucas> crimsun: that's for UVF exceptions, but thanks, I was looking for this mail :)
<crimsun> syncs are processed when elmo has time; he appears to have been battling LP lately
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, you requested a couple for me a long time ago, I haven't seen those yet. 
<lucas> if they are all processed a week before the release, we are not going to be able to solve bugs ...
<siretart> lucas: we are aware of the problem
<lucas> ok
<ogra> syncs are processed if the LP handler is ready
<LaserJock> ogra: what does that mean? 
<ogra> until then they are queued
<lucas> ogra: I'm not ranting :-)
<lucas> just being concerned
<ogra> elmos scripts get ported to LP
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<crimsun> (see above about elmo battling LP)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> he's doing between 16 and 19h of work/day since 3 months now, bear with him
<LaserJock> well, what version is going to be synced?  the one that is current when elmo gets to it or when it was requested.  The former I think
<crimsun> LaserJock: that's still a win-win situation
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> ogra: I know, it seems like a constant problem that he is overly busy.  Is there any plans to be able allow him to delegate
<ajmitch_> hi
<ogra> no need for that once the launchpad infrastructure is done
<crimsun> hi ajmitch_
<ogra> LaserJock, actually the LP stuff will take 60% workload off elmo ... but the migration requires him to help
<ogra> so that takes time
<LaserJock> ok, that makes sense
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, I like it but I'm a bit worried that I should check the packages that I asked for a sync to make sure any newer versions are ok to sync
<crimsun> well, yes, that's a given
<crimsun> if they're syncable when you ask, they should remain syncable at any point in the future, else you'd have created a merge delta anyway
<LaserJock> I suppose, unless Debian does something funky that then would turn it into a merge.  I doubt that would happen with the sync request I have but I was just thinking ...
<Pygi> how do I get around this? 
<Pygi> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to Scribes/textview.pyc: binary file contents changed
<Pygi> thanks ^^
<siretart> Pygi: delete *pyc files in debian/rules clean target
<skateinmars> hello everybody
<siretart> hi skateinmars
<siretart> anyone want to play guinea pig for new wine packages? 
<skateinmars> I had a little question :)
<skateinmars> Can we hope having cinelerra in universe? 
<siretart> skateinmars: you really think it is mature enough for packaging it? 
<siretart> skateinmars: anyway, since we are past feature freeze, you could start preparing packages for dapper+1
<siretart> we could perhaps backport them for dapper somewhen
<skateinmars> I don't know, I didn't try it so long
<Pygi> siretart: I don't have them there :-/ ? 
<skateinmars> I never did build any packages :/
#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-14
<dolson> raphink: ping
<raphink> dolson: pong
<dolson> raphink: wrt meterbridge, I just uploaded a patched .desktop file... I have to make all those other changes too? 
<raphink> dolson: I'm not the one who made the comments, I just published them.  Ask the reviewer :)
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> dolson: in this case, freeflying is the reviewer
<freeflying-ibook> raphink: which one ? 
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: meterbridge, you commented on this one
<dolson> I thought we wanted to keep deltas as small as possible
<raphink> dolson: if this is a sync/merge, then the policy is to keep the delta as small as possible, yes
<raphink> all changes will have to be maintained, so the policy is to have as few as possible
<dolson> raphink: it's just adding a .desktop file
<freeflying-ibook> dolson: no changes in your copyright file
<dolson> to a debian pkg
<raphink> dolson: however this seems to only be a fix, so I'd say go no further than fixing if nothing else is required
<raphink> dolson: and send the patch upstream (to Debian) if it's useful to them, so we don't have to maintain this diff
<dolson> raphink: exactly what I thought I was supposed to do, but freeflying-ibook says otherwise...
<raphink> dolson: well freeflying-ibook can make mistakes :)
<raphink> wel all do
<dolson> we all can, I just want to get the fixes into dapper and so if I have to make the changes he says, then I will
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll upload your package :)
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: please check the status of the package before commenting next time
<freeflying-ibook> dolson: after all , your package shall match the debian's policy imo
<dolson> I've been asked to work on debian directly now, so I will send them any diffs like this
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: if the package is a sync/merge or a fix, the requirements are not the same as for a new package
<dolson> freeflying-ibook: this IS from debian
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: right, except that keeping the diff as small as possible is important, cause our manpower doesn't allow us to maintain this
<freeflying-ibook> raphink: but it dosen't meet with debian's policy
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: I know many Debian packages don't meet Debian's policy
<raphink> this is a shame
<raphink> but unless this package gets into main
<raphink> we're not to add too much diff to it
<raphink> this is sad, but that's it
<raphink> unless you're ready to maintain this package
<raphink> and apply this patch to all versions synced from Debian
<raphink> manually
<freeflying-ibook> raphink: so we shall have as little changes as we can when we do sync or merge
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: exactly
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: try to imagine if we have one small change like this on each universe package
<raphink> there are about 16000 universe packages
<freeflying-ibook> raphink: then how can these packagee upload to debian ? 
<raphink> so that's 16000 diffs to maintain and apply for each package synced from Debian
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: Debian doesn't have a REVU system like us
<ajmitch_> lots of fun for all
<raphink> only one DD is required to upload
<raphink> so sometimes very bad packages get into Debian
<raphink> and so far we have to deal with it
<freeflying-ibook> raphink: that's unfair
<raphink> cause we can't do anything in Universe without Debian as upstream
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: it is
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: you're free to go help in Debian and improve the packaging quality
<raphink> if you feel like it ;)
<freeflying-ibook> I found some package is more bad than mine , but they can be upload
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: try and get your packages uploaded to Debian, then come again ;)
<dolson> haha, yeah
* ajmitch_ goes & uploads some packages to debian
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: it is sad but it is hard to get a DD to upload your work, although there are DDs that upload just very bad packages sometimes
<freeflying-ibook> raphink: I just tell a truth
<tseng> ajmitch_: does debian have new beagle yet? 
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: I know and I agree
* tseng updates chroot
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: now there are about 1000 DDs in Debian and you won't change that some upload horrible stuff
<ajmitch_> tseng: I haven't been watching
<raphink> freeflying-ibook: you won't change either that we're very far from being 1000 MOTUs and can't maitain what Debian maintains
<ajmitch_> raphink: I didn't find it hard to get DDs to upload for me
<raphink> ajmitch_: :
<raphink> cheater :p
<raphink> hehe
<ajmitch_> how so? 
<dolson> I was asked by a DD to upload my packages :D
<raphink> well you're a DD yourself
<raphink> dolson: great :)
<ajmitch_> I meant when I wasn't a DD
<ajmitch_> obviously
<raphink> ajmitch_: ah ok ;)
<raphink> ajmitch_: well I don't search too much, too I guess
<ajmitch_> which is why I stated it in the past tense
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: but after I sent out RFS, their is no reply at all , and my package have been reviewed times on REVU at all
<ajmitch_> freeflying-ibook: I just got people I knew on irc, or my AM
<ajmitch_> now I just sponsor uploads for others, when I have time
<siretart> ah, ajmitch is offering to sponsor debian uploads for motus? * G* (j/k)
<siretart> ah
<raphink> dolson: I'd like a better desktop file if you have to add one
<siretart> ok.  anyway, hi ajmitch_
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: so would you mind review my package :)
<raphink> dolson: give it a real GenericName and Comment please
<ajmitch_> freeflying-ibook: see the part about having time
<ajmitch_> hey siretart
<dolson> raphink: ok.  I didn't create it, persia did... but I'll fix it
<raphink> thanks
* ajmitch_ will be back in NZ *next week* & will have time then, ok? :) 
<ajmitch_> so submit your debian sponsorship requests & I'll add them to my list ;)
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: then I mail you my package on mentors ? 
<siretart> ajmitch_: must have been a hard time for you
<ajmitch_> siretart: which? 
<siretart> ajmitch_: having to stay in .au for such long time ;)
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> too many australians ;)
<siretart> :)
<ajmitch_> siretart: how's your NM process going?  got an AM yet? 
<ajmitch_> freeflying-ibook: I don't mind how you do it, I'd just need packages & you willing to fix any mistakes :)
<siretart> ajmitch_: nah, in the meantime, I have a dozen package under my fingers, but I'm still waiting for FD to assign me an AM :(
<siretart> ajmitch_: you don't know a way to speed this up, do you? ;) 
<ajmitch_> no I don't, sorry
<ajmitch_> and I was told that volunteering as an AM wouldn't help much either
<siretart> this weekend, I was told having birthday could help
<ajmitch_> hehe
<ajmitch_> what birthday is it? 
<siretart> well, of the applicant, I assume
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: recently , I have about 3-4 package RFS
<ajmitch_> so you're not having a birthday soon? :) 
<siretart> no, I have in august
<ajmitch_> freeflying-ibook: ok, but I don't regularly read the -mentors list
<siretart> and looking at the queue and its progress, this seems to be a realistic date for my AM assignment *sigh*
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: then I poke you here ?  or mail you ? 
<ajmitch_> mail me
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: would you mind msg your mail address ? 
<ajmitch_> freeflying-ibook: ajmitch@debian.org
<ajmitch_> it's public enough anyway
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: got it .thx
<ajmitch_> put something in the subject so I don't miss it :)
<freeflying-ibook> ajmitch_: sure , hehe
<netzmeister> hm
<netzmeister> Copying source file
<netzmeister>     -> copying [codeblocks_1.0+svn2160-0ubuntu1_source.changes] 
<netzmeister>     -> copying [./devel] 
<netzmeister> cp: cannot stat `./devel': No such file or directory
<netzmeister> pbuilder build .........
<netzmeister> why think pbuilder that "devel" is a directory?? 
<netzmeister> "devel" is the Section Value in the control file..
<siretart> netzmeister: use pbuilder on a .dsc, not a .changes file
<netzmeister> uhhh
<netzmeister> omg thx siretart
<ajmitch_> siretart: so what have you been up to lately?  I've seen you active in main & getting into development :)
<netzmeister> siretart:  it's one oclock.. time to sleep ;-)
<ajmitch_> netzmeister: but that's early
<netzmeister> ajmitch_:  one o'clock at night..
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> if the suns' not about to rise, it's not time for sleep
<netzmeister> ajmitch_:  hmm, but when you must go to work at nine o'clock it's better if you go to bed at night.. ;-)
<ajmitch_> sure
<siretart> ajmitch_: oh, I'm currently busy learning for my last exam for university.  in debian, I've been working on wpasupplicant and libopenal/freealut, and in ubuntu I'm reviewing UVF requests and fixing bugs here and there
<ajmitch_> siretart: ah yes, you're in the UVF team :)
<siretart> currently I wanted to upload the latest wine release but gcc hates me: it just ICEes :/
<ajmitch_> that's nasty
<ajmitch_> how's the new UVF scheme working out? 
* ajmitch_ should have anpther f-spot request to make soon
<ajmitch_> nearly all bugfixes this time
<siretart> ajmitch_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html documents the current workflow
<ajmitch_> yeah I made the first request, remember :)
<siretart> argl, sure
<siretart> looking at https://launchpad.net/people/motu-uvf/+assignedbugs I'd say it works better than the solution we had before
<siretart> ah, upload finished finally
* siretart imagines how painful big binary uploads to debian have to be
<ajmitch_> yeah, no more waiting for a week
<ajmitch_> they are painful
* ajmitch_ did an upload from tiber earlier
<ajmitch_> nice & fast
<ajmitch_> I had to scp the files there though :)
<siretart> anyway, need to get some sleep
<siretart> gn8 folks! 
<ajmitch_> night siretart
<ajmitch_> sleep well
<siretart> thanks
<netzmeister> n8 siretart
<raphink> gn siretart
<crimsun> wow.  so ipw2200 1.1.1 is a complete no-go on this X41-2527. 
<crimsun> new ieee80211+ipw2200 == hard freeze on boot
<ajmitch_> crimsun: really?  that's surprising
* ajmitch_ hasn't had a chance to test it out here
<crimsun> quite
<ajmitch_> aha, question on ubuntu-devel about those acer laptops & alsa :)
<ajmitch_> sounds like a job for crimsun
<crimsun> oh boy :)
<crimsun> I haven't even checked mail in the past couple hours, been fighting with ipw2200
<ajmitch_> just a request in include the ALC260 patches
* ajmitch_ is leaving ipw2200 alone for now
<crimsun> yep, it's queued
<crimsun> got a thinkpad jack sense fix, some hda-intel alc* updates
<ajmitch_> very nice
<LaserJock> dolson: ping? 
<dolson> LaserJock: hey
<LaserJock> dolson: looks like the meterbridge diff didn't get any smaller
<dolson> LaserJock: well I don't know what I'm supposed to do... I didn't change anything but the rules & changelog files and added the .desktop file
<dolson> I even deleted the source tree and started from scratch
<LaserJock> right, it is all in the autotools stuff
<LaserJock> when you run debuild or whatever that stuff get created, I think
<LaserJock> you might try using filterdiff
<dolson> I guess I have a lot to learn. 
<LaserJock> your doing good, I just lurk around in here and pick up some times now and then ;-)
<LaserJock> s/times/tips/
<dolson> I never even heard of filterdiff before
<LaserJock> dolson: I actually picked that filterdiff tip up from crimsun
* ajmitch_ should learn never to post on forums
<LaserJock> I haven't used it yet but I wrote it down so I could put it in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: get flamed? 
<ajmitch_> it's great fun being told I obviously don't know what I'm talking about
<dolson> you should put it in the packaging guide so I can read it
<dolson> ajmitch_: link? :) 
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't know what they are talking about
<ajmitch_> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=141718
<ajmitch_> just replying to it now, trying to be nice :)
<LaserJock> ah, that isn't even very bad
<LaserJock> I got flamed for daring to describe the Ubuntu release process to people who were ranting why dapper wasn't more stable than breezy and sid when the dapper repos opened
<ajmitch_> no, it's not bad, but annoying
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: yeah, I started my Ubuntu experience in the forums because I was used to the Gentoo forums.  Now I can't even hardly bare to go there.  I just get so mad. 
<ajmitch_> LaserJock: it's only useful for me to get bugreports that people don't bother to file in malone
* ajmitch_ waits for flames to come in
<ajmitch_> I really shouldn't post to the forums
<dolson> is it hard to get a UVF exception? 
<LaserJock> seems quite easy to me, much easier than I thought in fact
<dolson> I should file for a couple
<LaserJock> although it might be harder now that we are almost at UI Freeze
<ajmitch_> I don't think UI freeze applies too much to universe
<LaserJock> man vnc is a mess
<LaserJock> I sure wish I could figure it out
<ajmitch_> but file a request anyway
<LaserJock> yeah, it certainly doesn't hurt to try
<crimsun_> well, we're definitely at the point where we need to shoehorn stability over new features
<LaserJock> hmm, like a working vnc server :/
<ajmitch_> crimsun_: yes, and that's mainly why we want UVF exceptions
<crimsun_> if an uvf exception fixes that, I'm all for it
<LaserJock> any tetex guru's about? 
<crimsun_> 2 out of 3 hunks FAILED
<crimsun_> this is going to be a looong night
<ajmitch_> crimsun_: much pain with patches? 
* ajmitch_ is at work, and progress is making leaps & bounds
<ajmitch_> backwards..
<LaserJock> lol
<ajmitch_> it's rather depressing
<ajmitch_> since this has to be done by tomorrow
<ajmitch_> at this rate there's not a hope
<LaserJock> I just noticed that we have tetex-bin and tetex-base 3.0 but tetex-src 2.0.2 because Debian updated it on Jan. 31st
<ajmitch_> wonderful
<LaserJock> so should I do a an UVF request? 
<ajmitch_> if you feel it's warranted
<LaserJock> they thing is I don't know it enough but the description says says that it is useful for developers but not users necessarily
<ajmitch_> right
<ajmitch_> the UVF team will decide
<LaserJock> however, if we have the wrong version of the source...
<LaserJock> ok, I'll try to write something up
* ajmitch_ is getting a nice headache from this evil device
<LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch_> hello Gloubiboulga, highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi ajmitch_
<Gloubiboulga> hi ajmitch_
<minghua> LaserJock: well, an old tetex-src should hurt nobody, in my opinion
<LaserJock> minghua: think so, what would it be used for? 
<minghua> LaserJock: that's just some extra stuff to satisfy lincense of some files in tetex distribution
<LaserJock> ah, makes sense
<minghua> LaserJock: imagine like a piece of software written in C, but with a license saying "you must ship the original C file with the compiled binary"
<minghua> LaserJock: and this tetex-src is the "C source file" part, which no user will need
<minghua> LaserJock: it won't hurt to sync it, of course, but I wouldn't put my time into it
<LaserJock> ok
<minghua> looking at the log, maybe LaserJock already wrote the mail? 
<LaserJock> ? 
<minghua> LaserJock: I mean "<LaserJock> ok, I'll try to write something up", which is 20 minutes ago
<LaserJock> oh, I haven't yet, I was working on diffstats, changelogs, etc
<Amaranth> if that's the case we _have_ to have the new version
<LaserJock> I'm still trying to download the source package ;-)
<Amaranth> otherwise we're in violation of the license
<LaserJock> think so? 
<minghua> Hmm, Amaranth is right, but do we have tetex-src in main? 
<LaserJock> no Universe
<minghua> I really don't know how this is supposed to work, it's not as if we don't provide source pacakges
<minghua> maybe asking debian-tetex-maint@l.d.o list is a good idea...
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> jeeze, the change in orig.tar.gz is 33MB :(
<minghua> LaserJock: I remember tetex 3 is a rewrite, so that won't surprise me
<LaserJock> it is more than double the current
<LaserJock> but it doesn't apper that the packaging has changed at all
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe not.  the changelog says that they added a new package latex-source2e-doc that has pdf version of the latex documentation
<minghua> bash doesn't have <= comparison for strings?   this is annoying
* minghua will use dpkg --compare-versions for good measure then
<G0SUB> dolson
<crimsun_> yay, patch 1 of zillions done
<ajmitch_> crimsun_: good work
<Gloubiboulga> could somebody tell me what exactly means 'fix commited' and 'fix released' on LP
<ajmitch_> fix released means it's in the archive
<ajmitch_> fix committed generally means it's ready for uploa
<ajmitch_> upload
<Gloubiboulga> ok, thanks ajmitch_
<freeflying> looking for review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2127
<ajmitch_> freeflying: really, you should have cleaned it up a fair bit before asking for review - debian/rules is full of commented out & unneeded cruft
<freeflying> ajmitch_:  :) , thx
<ajmitch_> & did you mention that docs are under the GFDL? 
<ajmitch_> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/quarry-0603090220/quarry-0.1.17/README has a lot more info than debian/copyright does
* minghua sighs at GFDL
* ajmitch_ also
<minghua> ajmitch_: how did you vote to the GFDL GR (assuming you want to say, but I think it's public vote anyway)
* ajmitch_ sighs at the 'this file can be distributed freely' linked to a footnote saying that it's from a site which didn't track copyright
* ajmitch_ hasn't voted on it yet
<freeflying> ajmitch_: then I'd put all of the author's in README to th debian/copyright ? 
<ajmitch_> siretart: selinux is no kernel patch - it's been in the kernel for a long time now :)
<siretart> ajmitch_: oh, interesting
<siretart> morning, btw ;)
<ajmitch_> hi :)
<ajmitch_> how are you? 
<siretart> still a bit dizzy, but I'm fine
<siretart> should really get to learning, but software engineering is so boring :(
<ajmitch_> yeah..
* ajmitch_ understands what it's like :)
<dholbach> poor siretart - good luck with that! 
<siretart> its just 2 weeks, but them I promise to focus on revu2
<siretart> sometimes life just sucks
<ajmitch_> siretart: I'm back at uni on monday (I hope!) 
<siretart> dholbach: is wiesbaden now official?  I've seen an announcement on prolinux.de, but nothing from canonical
<ajmitch_> siretart: what is it? 
<dholbach> what was on prolinux.de? 
<siretart> http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2006/9390.html
<ajmitch_> dholbach: btw, no desktop tasks? :) 
<dholbach> ajmitch_: hu? 
<siretart> its german.  it translates: Ubuntu love day at linuxtag in wiesbaden
<siretart> s/its/it is/
<ogra> "...Wie die Organisatoren versprechen, werden auch hier hochkartige Entwickler zugegen sein, die auch die Konferenzen des LinuxTag bereichern sollen."  :-D
<ogra> lol
<ajmitch_> dholbach: I imagine the desktop team is overloaded with work, is there somewhere we can jump in & help? 
<dholbach> ajmitch_: bug triage
<dholbach> ajmitch_: bug triage
<dholbach> ajmitch_: bug triage
<dholbach> *whine*
<ajmitch_> aha
<ajmitch_> the long, boring part of your job :)
<siretart> ogra: I was quite surprised and a bit confused about that news entry.  are there similar announcements elsewhere? 
<dholbach> siretart: I think not, it's the first I read
<ajmitch_> when is linuxtag? 
<ogra> siretart, nope, i dont think so
<siretart> interesting. 
<siretart> ajmitch_: linuxtag is from 3.may to 6.  may
<ajmitch_> ok
<ajmitch_> so maybe around the time of the next ubuntu conf :)
<Tonio_> hello
<netzmeister> re
<Hobbsee> ajmitch_: you around? 
<Hobbsee> you handled the person on the forums very delicately lol
<ajmitch_> yes
<ajmitch_> delicate?  like with a hammer? 
<Hobbsee> haha
* ajmitch_ was slightly irritated when writing that :)
<Hobbsee> particularly as the orig poster obviously doesnt realise that you're a dev yourself hehe...
<ajmitch_> sure
* Hobbsee half expected him to be blasted across the room
<ajmitch_> but I'm not going to advertise I'm a wannabe developer :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> good point
<ajmitch_> my main contributions to the forums are telling people to FILE BUGS! ;) 
* StevenK waves
<Hobbsee> hehe! 
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> hey StevenK
<ajmitch_> and as a developer I should never be blasting someone across the room :)
<ajmitch_> evening StevenK
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Mithrandir> ajmitch_: unless you're playing ET, UT or quake, that is. 
<ajmitch_> true
<ajmitch_> then it's certainly warranted
<Mithrandir> almost encouraged. 
<StevenK> Mmmmmmmmmm, UT
<Mithrandir> :-)
* Hobbsee is jealous
* Hobbsee hasnt played shooter games in ages
<ajmitch_> neither have I
<ajmitch_> yay, flight back to NZ is booked
<StevenK> ajmitch_: You're finally done in Brissy? 
<ajmitch_> StevenK: almost
<ajmitch_> sadly I won't get down to sydney to visit all the ubuntu fans down there ;)
<Hobbsee> then you can go back to NZ and freeze
<StevenK> Blah
* Hobbsee frowns at ajmitch_ 
<StevenK> Look ajmitch_, you've got a fangirl
<ajmitch_> not likely
<StevenK> I'd fangirl you, but my wife would object. 
* Hobbsee glares at StevenK 
* StevenK smiles sweetly at Hobbsee. 
<Hobbsee> if you were here in person, you'd have a very sore arm right about now...
<tseng> you know ajmitch_ isnt really that nice a guy in person
<tseng> http://flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477862/
<ajmitch_> tseng knows
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Which one?  :-P
<ajmitch_> that was in sydney, too
<tseng> indeed. 
<Hobbsee> i was actually meaning in reference to you, StevenK :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I know, I was refering to which arm. :-) 
* Hobbsee doesnt see the relevance
<ajmitch_> ah sweet memories..
<StevenK> "[22:16]  < Hobbsee> if you were here in person, you'd have a very sore arm right about now..."
<tseng> i upgraded a dev sever to dapper yesterday
<tseng> to make sure all my software still runs smoothly (or fix it)
<tseng> not a bad showing so far
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, but does it matter which arm was now sore?   presumably the one i was closer to, to hit you with
<tseng> some manual futzing with mysql-server-5.0 and rrdtool-tcl
<ajmitch_> dapper seems to be shaping up
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You'd hit me with my own arm? 
<StevenK> Hopefully, I can bait Hobbsee into running her and getting me in person ...
<Hobbsee> i knew that didnt make sense when i hit enter! 
<tseng> thats the same time i went back to bzr
<Hobbsee> you could try
<StevenK> Could be fun
<ajmitch_> depends where in sydney you are
<StevenK> Not that far from her, actually
<StevenK> I could drive there in 25 minutes
<Hobbsee> i warn you, just dont come to my house...
<StevenK> Awwww, why not? 
<Hobbsee> meet me at uni, fine, but not at my house
<Hobbsee> those weird people called my parents, you know
<ajmitch_> heh
<StevenK> Oh, I solved that problem. 
<Mithrandir> that's ok, SK's weird too. ;-) 
<StevenK> I moved out
* StevenK kicks Mithrandir
* Mithrandir ruffles StevenK 
<StevenK> Mithrandir: You are shorter than me, you'd need a step-ladder
<Mithrandir> StevenK: I could jump
<StevenK> Heh
<Mithrandir> or climb you, or kick you in the knees.   The last option would be mean, though
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You want to skip the awkward, "So, who was that guy?"  questions? 
<StevenK> Ouch, kicks to the kneecaps hurt
<ajmitch_> Hobbsee: just mention it was someone involved with ubuntu
<ajmitch_> they'll just nod & smile
<Hobbsee> more the "what the hell are you involved in?   you're goign to get raped/murdered/whatever by someone you meet off the net."  blah blah blah
<ajmitch_> heh
<Hobbsee> haha - they think i'm nuts anyway, for working on open source stuff
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Tell them it's a secret sect. 
<tseng> or tell them you meet him at uni
<ajmitch_> sure, my parents thought I was at least a little nuts for flying over to sydney & then to montreal
<Hobbsee> hehe
<tseng> done and done
<StevenK> ajmitch_: My mother begged me not to go to Finland
<Mithrandir> I guess I'm weird whose parents think that's perfectly reasonable. 
<ajmitch_> StevenK: the way some users carry on, you wouldn't be far off from thinking it's a religion
<ajmitch_> Mithrandir: sure, my parents didn't think it was unreasonable, just a little surprising
<tseng> yeah my parents think the trips are cool
<ajmitch_> they're perfectly happy for me to travel the world
<tseng> always ask me where I am going next
* StevenK buggers off to play with the washing
<Hobbsee> haha - again? 
* ajmitch_ generally just ends up back in .au
<Mithrandir> ajmitch_: it'd kinda suck if you suddenly ended up in .ch without a ticket, wouldn't it? :-) 
<ajmitch_> 5th trip in just over a year to .au
<ajmitch_> Mithrandir: a little
<ajmitch_> though I've got friends in .ch :)
<ajmitch_> oh dear
<ajmitch_> just saw the latest wiki edit for the scim page
<ajmitch_> some of the suggestions on the wiki & the forums are almost guaranteed to break someone's box
<minghua> ajmitch_: which wiki page? 
<ajmitch_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SCIM
<ajmitch_> when people are installed openoffice from rpms converted by alien
* minghua wasn't aware of that page :-/
<ajmitch_> there are a lot of these sort of pages around
* minghua sighs
<minghua> and now scim is going to be shipped in ubuntu-desktop by default
<ajmitch_> yep
* minghua don't know how much stuff that will broken
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Was that again directed at me? 
<minghua> glad we have 1.4.4 now, at least
<ajmitch_> the worst part is handling those bugreports, and finding out a few days into debugging that they broke their system with this stuff
<ajmitch_> tseng can tell you of his experiences with that..
<minghua> by the way does ubuntu has a usability team? 
* tseng makes a face
<ogra> someone should fix reportbug finally ...
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, yeah, dont worry - brain is quickly dying tonight
* StevenK needs to get around to filing bugs. 
<Hobbsee> been fighting with my wireless, and doing a 4 hour chem prac
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Like last night? :-) 
<ogra> so you get package versions and lists at least
* minghua doesn't know what the usability people will say about scim's ugly GUI
<Hobbsee> yeah
* StevenK needs to do his SP2 prac
<ajmitch_> time for me to go offline for the night, see you tomorrow
<ogra> night ajmitch_
<ogra> minghua, write a nicer one for dapper+1 :)
<minghua> ajmitch_: bye
<highvoltage> night ajmitch_
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch_
<StevenK> If anyone can tell me how to use FormatMessage() from the Win32 API, that'd be great. ;-) 
<StevenK> Night ajmitch_
<minghua> ogra: hey, I don't know programming, especially not c++
<ogra> i bet you could do it in python instead of c++ ...
<ogra> :)
* minghua is planning to write a GUI for im-switch for dapper+1 though
<ogra> :))
<minghua> ogra: does writing a python GUI program based on a C++ library mean writing a binding for the library first? 
<highvoltage> ogra: is martin schulze also involved with ubuntu in any way? 
<ogra> i never did such a thing ... i just write the stuff in python ....
<tseng> highvoltage: not that ive ever heard of
<ogra> highvoltage, not directly, no
<highvoltage> ok. 
<ogra> he's a debian celebrity
<highvoltage> perhaps more like was.  he posted a big hissy fit (and it seems justified) to debian-devel-announce.  seems like he's left. 
<ogra> url ? 
<highvoltage> just sec...
<tseng> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/
<ogra> tseng, haha :P
<highvoltage> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00008.html
<ogra> highvoltage, thanks
<StevenK> He hasn't left. 
<StevenK> He is giving up on being SRM
<highvoltage> ah, ok. 
<StevenK> (That's how I read it, anyway)
<tseng> thats how i read it, also
<ogra> yup
<tseng> it was fairly specific. 
* minghua doesn't see anything even remotely related to ubuntu in joey's mail
<highvoltage> minghua: no, there wasn
<highvoltage> 't.
<azeem> highvoltage: he's still debian-press, debian-system-administration and debian-security, at least
<minghua> this is really sad.   not very surprising though
<azeem> and really, this isn't the right chan
<highvoltage> yeah, sorry about that, killall -9 joey-email-discussion
<raphink> ok here is a game for you guys
<raphink> I'm trying to guess what language is this : http://raphink.net/13_Track_13.ogg
<raphink> anyone has got an idea ? 
<raphink> (nothing to do with MOTU though ;))
<G0SUB> raphink sounds like some european lang. 
<raphink> G0SUB: the music sounds european, but not the language to me
<raphink> to me it sounds more asian
<raphink> it has very nasal sounds
<G0SUB> raphink I am an asian ... it's not asian
<raphink> that could be in portuguese or french if I didn't know both of these languages
<raphink> what languages do you speak G0SUB? 
<G0SUB> raphink may be fr or pt
<raphink> G0SUB: no I'm french and I speak pt ;)
<G0SUB> raphink I speak 3 indic languages and can recognise all
<LarstiQ> doesn't sound like a real language to me
<G0SUB> esperanto? 
<raphink> yes but when I mean asian I don't mean indian
<LarstiQ> G0SUB: hell no :)
<raphink> G0SUB: no I know esperanto
<LarstiQ> ah, here it does sounds like a language
<raphink> it is an existing language I'm sure
<raphink> and to me it sounds like an asian language
<LarstiQ> raphink: it reminds me a bit of german at places
<raphink> like vietnamese or chinese
<raphink> LarstiQ: where are you from? 
<LarstiQ> raphink: .nl
<raphink> ok
<raphink> it's not dutch for sure ;)
<G0SUB> raphink asian can be thai, chinese, japanese, sinhalese, burmese, malay, etc.  and i can recognise them
<LarstiQ> raphink: does not sound asian to me
<raphink> oik
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> maybe east european then
<raphink> turkish? 
<raphink> anyone knows turkish? 
<G0SUB> raphink possible ... possibly east european
<Yagisan> raphink: I also don't think it is asian.  Definitely not Japanese, or Korean
<raphink> yep
<raphink> well it's all about these nasal sounds
<raphink> not a lot of languages have sounds like this
<raphink> and funnily enough there are these "mutz" and "futz" ending words
<raphink> that make it sound like germanic language at times
<raphink> to me at least
<LarstiQ> raphink: Its not Turkish as I know it. 
<raphink> ok
<G0SUB> Romanian? 
<LarstiQ> raphink: could it be retoromanic?  Or however it is called in English
<raphink> retoromanic ? 
<raphink> what is that? 
<raphink> G0SUB: romanian is a latin language, doesn't sound like this
<G0SUB> i see
<raphink> imo
<LarstiQ> raphink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romansh
<raphink> ah
<raphink> romanche
<raphink> I doubt so
<LarstiQ> raphink: Retoromaans in Dutch
<tseng> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_language
<tseng> is this what you mean by retromanic
<LarstiQ> tseng: no :)
<LarstiQ> raphink: I really think I hear snippets of German in there
<raphink> really? 
<raphink> it doesn't sound like a germanic language all in all to me
<LarstiQ> raphink: at 0:33 and 0:40 for instance
<LarstiQ> so tzech perhaps? 
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> doubt so
<raphink> hard guess ...
<raphink> icelandic? 
<raphink> any more guess? 
<Jeds> its swedish
<raphink> Jeds: you're kidding
<Jeds> no
<raphink> ? 
<Jeds> im not kidding
<raphink> oooh ok
* raphink thought he understood swedish
<raphink> lol
<Jeds> well obviously not :P
<raphink> hehe :)
<raphink> I understand it when it's written
<raphink> but not sung at least ;)
<raphink> obviously
<raphink> :)
<Jeds> http://www.lyricsdownload.com/ekdahl-lisa-vem-vet-lyrics.html
<Jeds> there's the lyrics'
<raphink> thanks
<freeflying> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2129
<sladen> WRT http://lwn.net/Articles/174930/ is anyone else waiting on Debian syncs
<G0SUB> sladen hah, everybody is talking about this
<sladen> crimsun, ogra: ping regarding syncs
<ogra> sladen, ? 
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> wb phanatic
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping? 
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<toma_> ..nick toma
<LaserJock> dholbach: I wanted to ask you about a possible UVF exception for tetex-src
<LaserJock> dholbach: I was looking at it last night.  I saw that tetex-bin and tetex-base are 3.0 but Debian didn't get tetex-src 3.0 out until Jan. 31st
<dholbach> LaserJock: what exactly do you want to know? 
<dholbach> LaserJock: you could just file a bug report as the process says? 
<LaserJock> dholbach: well, I was sort wondering if it was even worth it.  For one, it isn't actually useful for users and the diff is huge (it source packages has more than doubled in size), however, I was a little concerned about a licensing issue
<dholbach> LaserJock: just file the bug
<dholbach> siretart slomo and I will reply to it
<LaserJock> ok, thanks
<slomo> hm, isn't tetex-src in main? 
<slomo> ah ok...
<LaserJock> slomo: no, it isn't.  I'm really not sure if it is a big deal.  The only thing I was worried about was complying with the license
<LaserJock> if we are distributing the wrong version of the source that probably isn't good.  I don't know that anybody would care though. 
<LaserJock> hmm, we might want to sync tetex-base too, looks like they fixed some RC bugs
<slomo> tetex-base is main... hm, you could talk to pitti about tetex-base, he cares for it iirc
<LaserJock> slomo: ok, thanks
<LaserJock> netzmeister: Guten Abend? 
<siretart> LaserJock: nabend! 
<siretart> (colloq.  for "g'evening")
<LaserJock> siretart: ahh, I kinda figured that.  I'm trying to learn a little bit more of the informal language/slang
<LaserJock> I'm learning a bit of the more formal stuff online
<siretart> klare sache (== 'sure thing')
<LaserJock> what is "di rein" or something similar, I can't remember the exact spelling
<siretart> you mean the french 'de rien'? 
<siretart> I think 'gern geschehen' comes close
<LaserJock> ah, is it French?  I think that is it.  Doesn't dholbach say it all the time
<ogra> he is french  ....
<ogra> (in sprit)
<ogra> ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> that must be why he is always hugging people ;-)
<ogra> heh
<siretart> hehe
<LaserJock> so is 'gern geschehen' like np ? 
<LaserJock> lol, I tried getting on #ubuntu-de the other day.  I was able to get some of it through the Google translator but there is too much slang and computer talk
<siretart> LaserJock: right
<LaserJock> cool, I wrote it down so I'll remember ;-)
* dolson forgets how to use the revu-tools :\
<LaserJock> I think it has a --help
<ajmitch_>  morning all
<ajmitch_> quiet channel today
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch_
<LaserJock> I suppose it's only us lazy people who have time to IRC ;-)
<ajmitch_> everyone else is off fixing bugs :)
<dolson> well.. I'm going to have a nap :)
<ajmitch_> oh dear
<ajmitch_> someone claiming that linux 2.6.12 sources aren't available in ubuntu & it breaches the GPL
<ajmitch_> someone please educate him :)
<Mithrandir> uh, they aren't? 
<ajmitch_> oh good, dolson did
<ajmitch_> Mithrandir: he claims they aren't (ie he doesn't know where to find them)
* ajmitch_ goes back to reading debian soap operas
<LaserJock> hi crimsun and bmonty
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<crimsun> hi LaserJock & bmonty
<ajmitch_> crimsun: how'd the patch mangling go? 
<crimsun> ajmitch_: 3/8 have been merged in 18.28 already
<crimsun> I should have the majority of hda-intel done tonight
<ajmitch_> great
<ajmitch_> it'll make quite a few people happy
<crimsun> :)
<ajmitch_> I noticed quite a few people on the forums with this one
<Seveas> ajmitch_, lol@soap opera 
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: man, I wonder if that GPL violation guy will try mailing -devel any time soon ;-)
<ajmitch_> haha
<hub> who? 
<LaserJock> what does "archive processing" mean?  syncs and uploads, etc. ? 
#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-15
<theCore> where I can report a broken package? 
<LaserJock> theCore: Malone
<ajmitch_> http://launchpad/net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<ajmitch_> launchpad.net, that is
<theCore> thanks, ajmitch_
<Erlang> hell, I've got a problem login-in to the REVU page, am I at the right place? 
<crimsun> what sort of problem? 
<Erlang> Wrong password. 
<crimsun> did you attempt to recover your password? 
<ajmitch_> ugh, people who set bugs as major which just aren't
<Erlang> Yes, and it seem to have worked.   Do I need to wait for my first package to appear?   On the wiki it is written I need to use the email address mentionned in my changelog. 
<tseng> ugh, people who file bugs "beagle uses too much memory"
<tseng> over and over
<ajmitch_> Erlang: yes, you need to wait
<Erlang> oh okay. 
<Erlang> Shouldn't be very long then. 
<ajmitch_> as long as you uploaded a source package :)
<Erlang> I did, just a few minutes ago (< 5)
<ajmitch_> Erlang: what did you upload? 
<Erlang> Code::Blocks
<LaserJock> it uploaded I think
<LaserJock> I got an email
<Erlang> yeah I see it :D
<ajmitch_> ok
* ajmitch_ just saw some other rejected uploads
<hub> ajmitch_: aren't we in freeze? 
<ajmitch_> hub: yes
<Erlang> ah, login-in there was kind of a bitch but it finally worked. 
<LaserJock> Erlang: did you upload the previous codeblock packages? 
<Erlang> No.   I didn't know there was a previous codeblocks package. 
<LaserJock> yes, there was already one there
<Erlang> under what package name? 
<LaserJock> codeblocks
<Erlang> I've found it. 
<ajmitch_> oh great
<ajmitch_> so we have 2 people wanting to do the same package again? 
<Erlang> seems like it. 
<crimsun> excellent, force them to cooperate!  :D
<ajmitch_> cooperate or die? 
<crimsun> that's the spirit! 
<bmonty> netmeizter (sp?)  is the packager of the other codeblocks package
<ajmitch_> tseng: I think you should do a mass-reject on beagle bugs
<LaserJock> can we get netsmeister's back?  Erlang, you should take a look at his package I think. 
<Erlang> at least the guy did not rip-off my package. 
<ajmitch_> rip off? 
<Erlang> copy or anything.   it has been in the wild for a bit
<ajmitch_> why would it be a problem if he'd based his packaging on yours? 
<ajmitch_> it is free software after all
<Erlang> good point -_-
<bmonty> LaserJock: over the weekend he was on frequently, I think he said he was German
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, I know him pretty well
<bmonty> good, I'll be quiet now :)
<Erlang> shouldn't there be a search tool in REVU? 
<ajmitch_> yeah, it's firefox find-as-you-type :)
<LaserJock> "find" in a browser works too ;-)
<crimsun> hah, we think alike
<ajmitch_> the current REVU was thrown together as a hack, and has served us well
<ajmitch_> but it has its flaws & we're redoing it
<Erlang> hrm, searching "codeblocks" only finds my package. 
<ajmitch_> yes
<Erlang> oh damn... yes I see
<ajmitch_> but if you look at your upload you'll see a history of previous uploads
<Erlang> yes yes
<Erlang> I guess the other guy will hate me :D
<ajmitch_> I see you filed the ITP in debian
<Erlang> yes. 
<ajmitch_> and you've had these packages around for awhile - did you get any interest from sponsors in debian? 
<Erlang> None.   Packaging C::B prior 1.0rc2 was hell since they used a custom build script.   So I stopped working on it for a while. 
<Erlang> In short, I did not fight very hard to grasp interest. 
<ajmitch_> ok
<ajmitch_> but you think it's ready to be included in debian now? 
<Erlang> Well, I see my package still has some flaws, but it is much easier to fix problems now that it is autotooled.   The software itself is has stable as most young software included in Debian. 
<hub> ajmitch_: is kerry being packaged? 
<Erlang> I'll warn netzmeister, and ask him about his plans for Debian.   I'll be more than happy to leave this package to somebody else.   I don't really use C::B anyway,. 
<LaserJock> hub: Kyral was going to do it I believe
<LaserJock> hub: but I don't know where he is with that
<hub> LaserJock: ok.  just wondering
<LaserJock> hub: I don't know if he has even started it though, he was going to do it over Spring Break I think
<ajmitch_> hub: don't ask me such things :)
<hub> ajmitch_: ah sorry.  since you do Mono, I thought...
<hub> even if it is purely Qt. 
<tseng> ajmitch_: i agree
<tseng> ajmitch_: i did one a week ago, and they all came back as dupes
<Toadstool> hi MOTUs o/
<LaserJock> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> i'm trying to do my best to find bugs i can handle on launchpad but i often feel like i'm useless :/
<Erlang> welcome to the club :D
<Toadstool> :)
<Erlang> Toadstool: There is plenty of software to package for Ubuntu you know...
<Toadstool> yeah but now that Feature Freeze is past for dapper i prefer packaging for debian and then wait for sync ^^
<Erlang> that is good too...
<Toadstool> my wide-dhcpv6 package is in ubuntu NEW since 2006-02-15...
<Toadstool> the latest version was uploaded in sid yesterday :)
<Erlang> I've been trying to upload an updated erlang to Debian for a while now... I've stumbled on all sorts of problems. 
<LaserJock> hi Xoritor
<Xoritor> hello LaserJock
<Xoritor> how are you tonight? 
* Xoritor kinda has a buzz so please forgive me if i get a bit rowdy ;-)
<LaserJock> oh, alright.  Still at work. 
<Xoritor> oh ick
<Xoritor> hehe
<LaserJock> well, I get most of my Ubuntu work done at work so...
<Xoritor> heh
<Xoritor> yea me too... work has been kinda slow so... i have been able to work on my stuff for now
<Xoritor> :-D
<Xoritor> made some massive strides lately
<Xoritor> what are you working on? 
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<Xoritor> kick butt
<Xoritor> is that acceptable language? 
<Xoritor> some people are easily offended in irc
<Xoritor> heh
<LaserJock> I would think so
<Xoritor> never know
<Toadstool> someone working on a real CDBS guide around here ?  'cause i've never been able to find a correct doc about it...
<Amaranth> info cdbs
<Xoritor> im working on a real "buzz guide" right now ;-)
<Xoritor> hehe
<Xoritor> maybe i should hang out in #ubuntu-offtopic ;-)
<Xoritor> hah
<Toadstool> Amaranth: yeah i've read it but it's far from a i'm-a-packaging-newb guide ^^
<LaserJock> Toadstool: I don't think we will have much time to address CDBS much for the Dapper packaging guide, but hopefully dapper+1
<Xoritor> Toadstool, im a .deb packaging n00b
<azeem> Toadstool: did you see https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml ? 
<Toadstool> azeem: ah no
<Toadstool> looks good
* ajmitch_ wonders if it's really a good idea for people who a new to packaging to start with cdbs
<Xoritor> i am not
<Toadstool> ajmitch_: yeah you may be right
<Xoritor> im waiting on that till i know whats going on a bit more
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: I agree, but it at least nice to know what it is I think
<Toadstool> on the other hand i've made my first package with cdbs but i've read a great part of /usr/share/cdbs/1 files and dh_* manpages
<Amaranth> ajmitch_: they can start with cdbs and slowly learn the rest as they need it
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: cdbs can often require knowing some arcane make stuff to arbitrarily put in - debhelper is far better documented & has more examples
<Toadstool> yep
<ajmitch_> really, cdbs can just hide too much when you're trying to get something working
<Toadstool> it depends on what kind of package you're making
<ajmitch_> sure, but making a package with cdbs is still 'paste a few lines in here & hope it works'
<Toadstool> :)
<ajmitch_> I'm not saying cdbs is bad, I've made a package in ~5 min & uploaded into ubuntu 10min later & it worked fine :)
<Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 10 in gnutls7 "Ports open but not response from dovecot daemon (hppa)" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10
<ajmitch_> thanks Ubugtu
<Seveas> haha
<ajmitch_> Seveas: overzealous regex? 
<Seveas> how am I ever going to exclude that? 
<Seveas> it has to ban Ubuntu <int that does not look like a version number>
<ajmitch_> who knows, I'll let you figure it out ;)
<Seveas> s/ban/matcg/
<Seveas> I won't
<Seveas> I just let it be this way
<ajmitch_> lazy
<LaserJock> why would it pick up "10min" though
<ajmitch_> because it'll match ubuntu<whitespace><digits>
<Seveas> a little more trickery
<Toadstool> maybe you should change Ubugtu behaviour and make him show bugs info only when there's something like ! bug xxx, 'cause it may be annoying when speaking about a bug and ubugtu shouts at you :)
<Seveas> ehrm
<Amaranth> Toadstool: no way, i like it
<Seveas> the whole REASON for ubugtu to be hear is to shout when you talk about bugs
<Toadstool> wow, i should really go to bed my english is getting worse and worse
<Seveas> here*
<Amaranth> Toadstool: you start discussing a bug and Ubugtu lets everyone know the basics
<Toadstool> hum, ok :)
<ajmitch_> eg bug 34075 is a little silly
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34075 in f-spot "Impossible to launch apps/login on disk full, no feedback" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34075
<Amaranth> and gives them an easy link to follow
<Amaranth> why is that filed against f-spot? 
<Toadstool> lol
<Seveas> he also respnds to urls like http://launchpad.net/bugs/34075
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34075 in f-spot "Impossible to launch apps/login on disk full, no feedback" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<Seveas> and will leave out the url in his response
<Amaranth> gnome bug 200000
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: because he used f-spot to fill up his disk..
<Seveas> because it's already there
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> gnome bug 195357
<Toadstool> /ignore sometimes Ubugtu
<Toadstool> ;)
<Amaranth> bleh
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: ie, it shouldn't be filed against f-spot at all, since he also filed ubuntu 34073
<Seveas> Amaranth, nonexisting bugs? 
<Amaranth> Seveas: probably
<Amaranth> gnome bug 213745
<Ubugtu> gnome bug 213745 in Mailer "Unmatched vfolder does not update correctly." [ Enhancement,Resolved: duplicate]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213745
<ajmitch_> Seveas: it hates me, it said 34073 was not found
<ajmitch_> malone 34073
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34073 in f-spot "F-Spot crashes with large number of pictures" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34073
<ajmitch_> hm
<ajmitch_> does ubuntu # point to bugzilla still? 
<Amaranth> mozilla bug 217548
<Seveas> ajmitch_, yes
<Amaranth> no love for the fox, eh? 
<Seveas> Amaranth, easy to add
<Seveas> @bugtracker list
<Ubugtu> debian, freedesktop, gnome, gnome2, malone, ubuntu, and ximian
<Toadstool> what would be great with Ubugtu is a little "line" timer which prevents him to flood the chan with the same bug info every two lines, no ? 
<Amaranth> ximian? 
<Seveas> @bugtracker add mozilla bugzilla https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ Mozilla
<Seveas> @bugtracker list
<Ubugtu> debian, freedesktop, gnome, gnome2, malone, mozilla, ubuntu, and ximian
<Amaranth> mozilla bug 217548
<ajmitch_> why gnome & gnome2? 
<Ubugtu> mozilla bug 217548 in Preferences "Junk mail controls - adaptive filters check box" [Major,Resolved: duplicate]  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217548
<Seveas> @mozilla bug 217548
<Amaranth> w00tage
<Seveas> ajmitch_, bugs.  and bugzilla. 
<Amaranth> Ubugtu > me
<ajmitch_> ok..
<Seveas> to grab urls correctly
<ToadZzZztool> gn8 motus
<crimsun> hmm, slick new sound juicer icon
<LaserJock> oh, hi minghua .  I didn't see you come in. 
<minghua> hi LaserJock :-)
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hey
<Xoritor> ok so i have a library that has plugins for the diff databases it can use
<Xoritor> ie... mysql, postgresql, sqlite3
<Xoritor> should i build the library with all 3 or make a package for each? 
<Xoritor> i am thinking a package for each
<Xoritor> like snort does
<Xoritor> snort, snort-mysql, snort-pgsql
<LaserJock> seems logical
<Xoritor> so i would have libpreludedb-mysql, libpreludedb-pgsql, and libpreludedb-sqlite3
<Xoritor> err... maybe just  libpreludedb-sqlite
<Xoritor> more "future compatable"
<Xoritor> the other option is to build it against all of them then make a conditional depends so as long as one of them is installed its ok
<Spec> is there documentation on what the best practices for packaging a python project are? 
<LaserJock> Spec: I would look at the Python Policy for Debian
<LaserJock> Spec: you can find it at www.debian.org/devel/
<Spec> thank you
<LaserJock> np
<Spec> also, how do i file a bug on launchpad? 
<Spec> err, about launchpad*
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bugs is what you want, I think
<LaserJock> because Launchpad is a product ;-)
<Spec> i think launchpad needs to be more intuitive :p
<LaserJock> most people think so, but it is is still a work in progress
<Erlang> is being subscribed to universe-bugs a practical solution to get involed with Ubuntu, or would I get flooded by the volume of the list? 
<dolson> crimsun: rjo updated Ardour today, and he thinks we should put it in too.. he said "Ubuntu might be very interested in ardour 0.99.2 since it fixes the timefx mode which was broken in 0.99*." 
<crimsun> dolson: please request a UVF exception
<dolson> crimsun: I'm doing it.  I'm going to find the files and try them to be sure there are no changes needed
<dolson> I just wanted you to know I was going to file the request
<ajmitch_> Erlang: you'd probably get flooded
<Erlang> okay. 
<Spec> how do you upload a screenshot to launchpad? 
<LaserJock> Spec: as an attachment? 
<Spec> i see links for people's screenshots of a rendering bug from library.launchpad.net? 
<ajmitch_> Spec: 'add attachment' on the right
<ajmitch_> probably once you've filed the bug :)
<Spec> ah
<Spec> let me check
<Spec> yay :p
<dolson> ooooh, debian even has an alpha build of ardour2
<Spec> damn, i think i found a bug in gimp(?)  trying to take a screenshot :p
<minghua> Erlang: I agree with ajmitch_ (I never read all mails from universe-bugs), subscribing the packages you are interested in is probably a better idea. 
<minghua> Erlang: subscribing in launchpad, so that you receive all bug reports against said packages
<Erlang> okay. 
<Erlang> I've already subscribed to all Erlang related package. 
<jaldhar> minghua: why do scim im engines depend on scim itself?   I think that maybe why skim is not working--some kind of conflict
<jaldhar> minghua: btw, I am on dapper now
<minghua> jaldhar: because scim modules won't work by themselves without scim? 
<minghua> jaldhar: I have no idea if scim-pinyin can work with skim without scim
<minghua> jaldhar: if yes, the dependency should probably be changed to scim | skim
<minghua> jaldhar: but I think we still need a dependency there
<jaldhar> minghua: scim | skim is what I was thinking but I think I will do more research
<minghua> jaldhar: I seriously doubt scim's existense will cause skim to misbehave though (with proper configuration), as not every distro has this scim/libscim separation
<minghua> jaldhar: so most likely they have /usr/bin/scim co-installed with /usr/bin/skim for their KDE environment
<jaldhar> minghua: the strange thing is if I start scim in a gtk app first, then skim will show im engines
<Xoritor> ok i think this may be beyond me
<Xoritor> heh
<Xoritor> does anyone know of a library that is "split up" into diff "packages"
<Xoritor> ie... like snort is split up into snort, snort-mysql, snort-pgsql
<jaldhar> xoritor: practically all of them.   What are you trying to do? 
<Xoritor> jaldhar, im trying to compile libpreludedb and want one "package" for libpreludedb-mysql, one for libpreludedb-pgsql, and one for libprelude-sqlite
<Xoritor> each containing only the things they respectively need
<Xoritor> i think i just had a brainstorm
<jaldhar> Xoritor: it does the standard configure, make, make install correct? 
<Xoritor> yea
<Xoritor> i think i just need to figure out how to tell it to put the mysql stuff in one pgsql stuff in another, and sqlite stuff in a third and have a -common for all the other stuff
<jaldhar> Xoritor: have a look at the man page for dh_movefiles
<jaldhar> I'm assuming you use debhelper
<Xoritor> yep
<Xoritor> thx
<jaldhar> oops dh_movefiles recommends using dh_install instead
<minghua> launchpad is down? 
<ajmitch_> seems to have some issues
<chillywilly> anyone know what this means: [5847210.085000]   CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -22 ? 
<chillywilly> could you be more crytpic mr.  CIFS file system....
<minghua> chillywilly: CIFS is related to samba if I am not mistaken
<chillywilly> sure, I asked there too ;)
<Lathiat> indeed
<Lathiat> samba speaks CIFS
<Xoritor> cifs means "common internet filesystem" and its what smb became when M$ tried to make a "standard"
<Lathiat> no idea what that error is
<chillywilly> I can browse the shares through nautilus and with smbclient just fine
<Lathiat> often you try to use a hostname in the mount
<Xoritor> of course there is more to it but...
<Lathiat> you need to use an IP
<Xoritor> or setup dns
<chillywilly> yep that's it
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> I think last time I just had an entry in /etc/hosts
<chillywilly> hmm, I dohave an entry there
<ajmitch_> don't bother with this 'networking' stuff, it's just a passing fad
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> ajmitchie
<crimsun> wow, this new artwork kicks ass
<Amaranth> meh
<Amaranth> do you have orange icons too? 
<Amaranth> they're _way_ too bright
<Xoritor> orange.. ick
<crimsun> yeah, orange
<Amaranth> _WAY_ too bright
<Amaranth> like, my eyes are burning bright
<minghua> reading the changelog it seems easy enought to change back
* ajmitch_ is still running a nice blue desktop
* minghua hasn't seen the new icons yet
<dolson> I like the tango icons, personally
<dolson> although I am using Human
<Mez> siretart, ping
<ajmitch_> Mez: at this hour of the morning? 
<Mez> ajmitch_, oh yeah
<Mez> o_O
<Mez> lol
<Mez> *clicks to switch clock back to UK time*
<ajmitch_> siretart keeps fairly normal hours :)
<Mez> yeah my clock was on a differnt timezone
<Xoritor> what is "normal hours"? 
<ajmitch_> Xoritor: like being up just before business hours
<Xoritor> heh
<ajmitch_> and going to bed before dawn
<Xoritor> hehehehe
* ajmitch_ sees a screenshot of the new dapper themes - a little too orange for my liking
<Xoritor> do you have to put the source dir for dh_install? 
<Xoritor> dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp
<Xoritor> or is that "default"? 
<Xoritor> i see my issue
<Xoritor> nm
<Amaranth> ajmitch_: the orange doesn't bother me, the neon orange does :P
<Xoritor> with all this talk of orange i sure am glad there are so many themes out there ;-)
<crimsun> I actually like the orange more than the brown
<ajmitch_> I like blue rather than orange or brown, actually
<ajmitch_> it's one of the first things I change
<Xoritor> its probably THE first thing i change
<minghua> I think brown is just fine
<crimsun> as long as $EDITOR has syntax highlighting, I'm rather indifferent :)
<ajmitch_> my personal opinion about the colour notwithstanding, it's whether it's a good default theme
<minghua> it took some time to adjust, but now I am quite ok with the human theme
<Xoritor> IMHO "time to adjust" means it is not a good theme
<minghua> and talking about "first thing I change" and "$EDITOR", the first thing I change is setting $EDITOR to vi
<Xoritor> if you have to adjust something is wrong with it
<bmonty> I like the human theme, but I change the background
<Xoritor> ie... its not "human friendly"
<Xoritor> ;-)
<ajmitch_> or it's not to your tastes
<Xoritor> yea true
<Xoritor> everyone has diff tastes
<ajmitch_> just because you don't like the default, doesn't mean that it's not 'human-friendly'
<bmonty> minghua: same here
* Xoritor was just making a very bad pun
<Xoritor> but really i dont have anything against the human theme... its just the colors (and i like brown much more than orange) for me
<Xoritor> if "human" came in lots of colors so i could choose which one i want... i would use it
<Xoritor> but again... thats just me
<ajmitch_> which would be technically possible
<Xoritor> should be anyways ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> if a fully-svg icon set were used
* Xoritor is not an artist
<Xoritor> so i have no idea
<G0SUB> LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi G0SUB
<G0SUB> LaserJock where is the current list of packages which MOTU-Science maintains? 
<Xoritor> night everyone
<crimsun> dayam, over 800 lines of diff for _one_ hda codec
<ajmitch_> yeah, it's a fair bit of code that got changed
<crimsun> and that isn't even the largest one
<crimsun> realtek isn't going to be twice that
<crimsun> s/n't//
<G0SUB> LaserJock ? 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: sure, tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/all_list.html
<G0SUB> LaserJock are all apps in the science category included? 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: some of them are in Main though, and I need to weed those out
<LaserJock> science, math and tex
<G0SUB> LaserJock okay ... I have found some in graphics ... where do i list those? 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: if you just start compiling a list that aren't in the science, matha, or tex sections that would be the easiest
<G0SUB> LaserJock I am doing that itself
<LaserJock> G0SUB: so what is your question? 
<G0SUB> LaserJock where do I write those down?  in a wiki? 
<LaserJock> you can make your own list if you want, or we could do a wiki. 
<LaserJock> maybe a wiki would be the best, then we can get others to help ;-)
<G0SUB> okay
<G0SUB> LaserJock https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science/NewPackages
<LaserJock> I was thinking more /MOTU/Teams/Science/MiscPackages but whatever
<G0SUB> okay, I haven't created the page yet
<LaserJock> G0SUB: have you seen w.u.c/UbuntuScientists before? 
<G0SUB> yes
<LaserJock> I think it might be good for use to run through that list after we are done and mark wich apps are in Ubuntu
<G0SUB> LaserJock for the time-being, I am using packages.ubuntu.com to search ...
<LaserJock> yeah, or synaptic might be helpful also
<G0SUB> yes ...
<G0SUB> LaserJock we don't have SodiPodi in the Vector Drawing tools list
<LaserJock> G0SUB: so maybe we can fill in both the /UbuntuScienctists and /MiscPackages pages together
<G0SUB> hmm ... let me do the MiscPackages first ... then we'll classify and put them in UbuntuScientists
<LaserJock> exactly
<G0SUB> LaserJock btw, I don't think all apps in UbuntuScientists are owned by MOTUScience ... for example Inkscape
<LaserJock> G0SUB: sure
<LaserJock> G0SUB: and there are lots of apps that aren't in Ubuntu at all
<G0SUB> LaserJock so do we take them over?  is Inkscape a scientific package? 
<minghua> inkscape is in graphics section
<minghua> and I wouldn't call inkscape a scientific app
<G0SUB> hmm ... that's what I think too
<minghua> it's probably closer to gimp than to gnuplot
<LaserJock> yeah, UbuntuScientists is for apps that scientists might use, especially for people coming from windows
<LaserJock> not necessarily scientific apps
<LaserJock> but a real lack with that wiki page is that it doesn't correlate with what we have, i.e. package names and which apps are in Ubuntu
<G0SUB> LaserJock do we consider different modellers as scientifc apps? 
<LaserJock> what kind of modellers?  what would be an example
<G0SUB> some OpenGL modellers ... lightlab
<G0SUB> or even blender? 
<LaserJock> no, but stuff like molecular modellers would be
<G0SUB> ok
<LaserJock> I mean we already have ~450 source packages, we don't want to cast the net too wide (if we haven't already) :0
<G0SUB> LaserJock heh ... and what about scientific python stuff? 
<LaserJock> yeah, I think that should go in
<G0SUB> good
<LaserJock> but then I'm partial because I use it ;-)
<G0SUB> hehe
<G0SUB> LaserJock https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science/MiscPackages
<LaserJock> so you added blender? 
<LaserJock> doh, spoke to soon
<G0SUB> hehe
<LaserJock> hmm, metapackages
<G0SUB> yeah ...
<LaserJock> G0SUB: what is your TZ again? 
<G0SUB> LaserJock +0530 (IST)
<G0SUB> LaserJock it's almost 4 in your place now ...
<LaserJock> G0SUB: other way I think.  almost 2200
<G0SUB> heh, yeah ... it's 12:00 IST here, not GMT
<LaserJock> G0SUB: ok, I'm going to go to bed.  I'll work on the list in the morning, when you should be asleep or something
<G0SUB> LaserJock heh, fine :)
<G0SUB> see you
<LaserJock> cya
<G0SUB> minghua are you busy? 
<minghua> G0SUB: sort of
<G0SUB> minghua okay, later then ... nothing urgent here
<minghua> G0SUB: you can always send me a mail if you want something from me
<minghua> LaserJock: welcome back :-)
<LaserJock> G0SUB: sorry, just thought of something
<LaserJock> G0SUB: are you checking source packages? 
<G0SUB> LaserJock yeah, ask
<G0SUB> LaserJock not yet
<G0SUB> no actually
<LaserJock> G0SUB: we are going to ultimately be interested in source packages
<G0SUB> LaserJock okay ... i will take note of that
<LaserJock> actually, it might be easier to do the binary packages
<LaserJock> and then use one of lucas's scripts to convert the list of binary packages into source packages
<G0SUB> well, let's just mark the packages now ... later we can can do this
<LaserJock> yes, so just disregard what I said ;-)
<G0SUB> LaserJock haha :)
<LaserJock> hi minghua btw
<G0SUB> minghua sure ... but I just wanted to discuss something related to Debian with you
<minghua> G0SUB: hmm, why with me particularly?   is it related to scim? 
<G0SUB> minghua well, no ... but debian in general ... and you because i know you and also since you are a DD
<ajmitch_> minghua: maybe you're getting a reputation as a someone knowledgeable about debian ;)
<minghua> G0SUB: no, I am not a DD :-)
<G0SUB> ajmitch_ :)
* minghua points at ajmitch_ 
<G0SUB> minghua doesn't matter
* ajmitch_ is innocent
<G0SUB> ajmitch_ hehe
<minghua> G0SUB: if it's nothing private, feel free to talk here, I think I will have time to answer in half a hour
* Yagisan waves hello
<G0SUB> minghua just ping me when you are free ... I would like to talk in Private
<ajmitch_> hey Yagisan
<ajmitch_> how are you? 
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: haven't seen ytou round for awhile - what's your opinion of apparmour? ;) 
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: me - up shit creek without a paddle.  apparmour looks similar to grsecs RBAC, but i haven't had time to compare the two.  I've been waiting for gcc 4.1 to hit debian :)
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: why are you up the creek? 
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: caring for my wife after the hospital fuckup is becoming very stressful, I can't devote enough time to generating an income as well, and my NEIS funding was cancelled as a result
<ajmitch_> ouch :(
<ajmitch_> that's got to be hard
<Yagisan> it is.  I get to spend this weekend refactoring my finances, and trying to work out how to balance both family and work.  The hospital stuff up was bad enough that my wife needs help to do almost everything
<Yagisan> hmm, that skaller guy is accusing ubuntu of gpl violations in debian-mentors. 
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: sure, he's also insinuating the same of debian
<ajmitch_> idiocy knows no bounds
<Yagisan> it must be hard to read when your head is stuck so far up your arse you can't see. 
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Yagisan
<ajmitch_> what happened with the hospital? 
<ajmitch_> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch_
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I dumped CSU about a week ago, and they sent me an email last nigh stating I was "at risk of exclusion"
<Hobbsee> hehe! 
<Hobbsee> odd that! 
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: when my wife gave birth, the hospital fucked up on the episectomy, and creaded a 4th degree tear
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you should see my reply
<Hobbsee> hehe - pastebin it? 
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: it's pdf
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: in effect they tore the barrier between her vagina and rectum so bad a train wreck looks cleaner
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: they then *discharged* her with no treatment
<ajmitch_> that's criminal
<G0SUB> Yagisan who?  where? 
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: oh, they claim they did everything right. 
<minghua> G0SUB: I am back
<G0SUB> minghua :)
<crimsun> there's a(n in)famous book about similar things in the USA by Naomi Wolf called _Misconceptions_
<minghua> and hello Yagisan
<ajmitch_> right?  they call that right? 
<crimsun> it pretty much documents problems with the birth procedure in USA hospitals
<Yagisan> G0SUB: my wife is the pooor victum.  The perp is Westmead hospital, westmeand, nsw, australia
<G0SUB> Yagisan in which country did this happen? 
<G0SUB> holy crap! 
<Yagisan> s/westmeand/westmead
<G0SUB> Yagisan is she alright now? 
<Yagisan> we had a specalist quote 6+ months before she is healed
<ajmitch_> it's the sort of thing that makes you very angry
<minghua> Yagisan: really sorry to hear about that happened to your wife
<Yagisan> yes it does. 
<G0SUB> Yagisan can you please tell me how such a thing happened to her? 
<Yagisan> thanks for your sympathy guys/girls. 
<Yagisan> G0SUB: I think we had a medical student as the midwife
<G0SUB> these things may happen in remote places in India
<G0SUB> Yagisan so she was pregnant? 
<crimsun> G0SUB: it actually occurs consistently in the USA, too. 
<Yagisan> as every other doctor and midwife we have spoken to said "WTF ??  that's not right"
<Yagisan> G0SUB: it was while she gave birth
<G0SUB> Yagisan how's the child? 
<Yagisan> he's fine
<G0SUB> good
<Yagisan> mum however is not.  Neither physically or emotionally
<G0SUB> I pray that she gets well soon ...
<Yagisan> thanks
<crimsun> best wishes for you all
<Yagisan> crimsun: thanks for the book.  I'll see if I can find a copy
<Kyral> Night MOTU
<Hobbsee> night Kyral
<Yagisan> Night Kyral
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: pastebined the reply to CSU, but it failed to word wrap.  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9948
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ok
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: at least you should get a laugh out of it
<Hobbsee> hehe oh i am
<Hobbsee> and i copied the text, and pasted it into kate - reads fine :D
<Hobbsee> haha nice
<Hobbsee> csu is charles sturt uni, isnt it? 
* Hobbsee vaguely thought about going there
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yes it is
<ajmitch_> Hobbsee: what uni are you at ? 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch_: macquarie
<Hobbsee> ah crap! 
* Hobbsee just fell off her chair
<Hobbsee> ouch. 
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: my email isn't that funny ;)
<ajmitch_> Hobbsee: ouch :)
<Hobbsee> no, that was leaning down to try and pick stuff up off the ground :P
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: it's a masterpiece
<Hobbsee> then overbalancing and going splat! 
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: a few spelling mistakes blemish it, but overall it's good
<ajmitch_> Hobbsee: that was silly
<Hobbsee> it was! 
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: it was 4am, and I was furious.  I also had to use their web based system, not my beloved evolution with spellcheck
<ajmitch_> how nasty
<ajmitch_> Hobbsee: so when will you be ready to go for MOTU? :) 
<Hobbsee> hehe got no idea
<ajmitch_> got more packages underway? 
<Hobbsee> looking forward dapper+1 open development though
<ajmitch_> or just doing kde maintenance for now? 
<Hobbsee> not at the moment
<Hobbsee> something like that
<ajmitch_> good, we need bugfixers
<Hobbsee> doesnt mean that i can fix a lot yet though...
<ajmitch_> you'll learn
* ajmitch_ thinks there should be a sydney ubuntu hackfest to squash bugs one weekend
<Yagisan> lets see, that gets Hobbsee, StevenK doing work.  I can sit there and gasbag while my kids run around.  Who else ? 
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch_> jdub, lifeless
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: no, that would leave you to go and work at my work :P
<ajmitch_> plenty of others in sydney :)
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: your work ? 
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: supermarket
<ajmitch_> ah
<ajmitch_> lucky you
* ajmitch_ wouldn't mind visiting sydney again, actually
<Hobbsee> in fact, you might enjoy it, seeing as i doubt they'd try hitting on you...
<ajmitch_> next planned trip isn't till 2008 though :)
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: Coles or Woolies ? ( and where ?) 
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: bilo
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: so basically coles ;)
<Hobbsee> something like that
* ajmitch_ should go on holiday to .au later this year :)
<Hobbsee> hehe yeah
<Hobbsee> that'd be fun
<ajmitch_> I'll just tell my parent I'm off to australia, yet again
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: so when do you move here ;)
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: maybe next year, though I'll probably move to melbourne :)
* ajmitch_ can't handle the high temperatures ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> yes, brisbane and high temperatures, yeah
<Hobbsee> which reminds me, i was planning to go out tonight, and see a friend of mine who has a pool
* ajmitch_ wouldn't mind doing something like that
<crimsun> wow, um patch_analog.c has 1642 lod
<crimsun> I think benc just might frown
<ajmitch_> that's unfortunate
<crimsun> this one set is going to be massive
<ajmitch_> what are most of the changes? 
<crimsun> full table definitions of codecs
<crimsun> there's no way around it, either
<crimsun> the initialisation methods have changed so much since 1.0.10rc3 that to get your sound working, these changes are necessary
<ajmitch_> no, it's not stuff you can just throw out
<Yagisan> bbl - need to do dad stuff(tm)
<ajmitch_> did you have to work around the semaphore changes? 
<ajmitch_> see you later Yagisan
<crimsun> no, the semaphore changes can be skipped for the codecs I've processed so far
<crimsun> Ingo's changes really are very, very well contained
<ajmitch_> good
<ajmitch_> why were the changes made? 
<crimsun> performance, mainly
<crimsun> he has made it much simpler and faster
<crimsun> http://lwn.net/Articles/165039/ is a pretty good overview
<ajmitch_> nice, sounds liek something useful
<Yagisan> re
<ajmitch_> welcome back
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: heh - both child processes are now in the S state :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: have you noticed ssp is now part of gcc 4.1 :) I'm very much looking forward to that
<ajmitch_> yeah, I heard that
<G0SUB> vuntz
<G0SUB> vuntz ping
<vuntz> pong
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I wonder if we can set an autobuilder up to automatically build all apps with ssp enabled
<Yagisan> ? 
<G0SUB> vuntz read your blog ...
<ajmitch_> now, or for dapper+1? 
<G0SUB> vuntz would like to volunteer for pessulus
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: dapper+1 , and for testing purposes @ home
<ajmitch_> GOSUB: cool, start hacking on it :)
<G0SUB> ajmitch_ :)
<vuntz> G0SUB: cool
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: siretart knows sbuild well, though infinity is the buildd guy
<vuntz> G0SUB: can you send me a mail (vuntz at gnome.org)?  I'll have to leave for work really soon now
<G0SUB> vuntz my C is a bit rusty now, else could have helped with gnome-panel too ...
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I doubt anything would break, but I'd like to gather data on what effects if any it has on i386/amd64
<G0SUB> vuntz yeah, I can mail you ...
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: and comparative benchmarks would be nice
<G0SUB> vuntz more on this later ...
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: sure
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: in effect, I'd like to have a mountain of documentation, graphs etc with me, so I can effectively redo UDU's proactive security, and get a "yes" this time
<ajmitch_> but I think it might be done for dapper+1 anyway :)
<ajmitch_> you'd want to talk to doko for gcc & pitti for security
<ajmitch_> but they're both keen on having it enabled
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I know pitti was keen, didn't know about doko though
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: isn't it odd that infrastructure like wanna-build isn't packaged ? 
<ajmitch_> not particularly, when you know what debian is like :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: what suffering from multiple personality disorder ? 
<ajmitch_> yeah
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: you'd think they would package what they need (I'd like it if they did anyway), so they could easily deploy new systems. 
<ajmitch_> nah
<ajmitch_> it's in cvs
<ajmitch_> and some of it is packaged
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: ubuntu does not use wanna-build anymore does it ? 
<ajmitch_> not that I know of
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: IIRC ubuntu deployed a new system on launchpad.  I think it was soyez or something like that.  I thought it was a wanna-build replacement
<ajmitch_> yes, launchpad replaces most of that functionality
<ajmitch_> I'm just not sure exactly how much
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I'm also not very familiar with launchpad.  Seems hard to find what I want. 
<ajmitch_> a twisty maze of passages, all alike
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: hmm, that reminds me of nethack.  I keep dieing on that, very quickly. 
<Yagisan> hmm, evil wesnoth.  It won't let me level Konrad from Youth to lord after 1 exp. 
<ajmitch_> how disappointing
* Yagisan looks for another game I can use to vent my frustration into
<Hobbsee> urgh, there's an update on gnupg - and it's after feature freeze
<ajmitch_> Hobbsee: so?  it's a security update, so it's sort of required
<ajmitch_> plenty of things are being updated after feature freeze
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> ajmitch_: http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2006q1/000216.html - fun
<ajmitch_> looks like it's nearly time for me to disappear for the night
<ajmitch_> yes, saw it on slashdot
<crimsun> cya ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> nearly time, I said ;)
<crimsun> hehe
<ajmitch_> since I'm waiting on someone to give me a lift to the hotel
<ajmitch_> & then back to NZ tomorrow morning
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<ajmitch_> so sad to leave this country behind, really ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Yagisan> catch you all later.  hopefully with good news next time. 
<crimsun> later Yagisan
<ajmitch_> bye Yagisan
<Hobbsee> bye Yagisan
<crimsun> ...4803 lod for patch_realtek.c
<ajmitch_> ouch
<crimsun> I'm going to attach urls to ubuntuforums posts as justification
<ajmitch_> & my personal recommendation? :) 
<crimsun> sure.  This patch is a lot more important than the weight of the others, because so many of the new laptops use an ALC* codec
<ajmitch_> and also desktop motherboards now also
<crimsun> Particularly with Dapper needing to be supported for 3 years, it'll be an issue if people can't hear anything
<ajmitch_> ok, see you all in a day or so
<crimsun> 'evening
<Hobbsee_away> bye ajmitch_
<crimsun> cya Hobbsee_away
* Hobbsee_away only has dinner, she's coming back
<zakame> hi all
<Tonio_> hello everyone
<zakame> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> hey zakame ;)
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Hobbsee> hmmm...this gnupg update definetly doesnt like me.   it's free for anyone else to package...
<zakame> hmm what's with gnupg? 
<Hobbsee> security update
<Hobbsee> needs packaging
<minghua> zakame: a security release
<zakame> ah
<zakame> gaah its noticeable, I'm not in the know :(
<minghua> but isn't gpg in main?   why Hobbsee is trying to package it? 
<Hobbsee> minghua: it's a security *update* - therefore, the current package needs upgrading ;)
<Hobbsee> not doing it from scratch - but i still got errors, so am leaving it for the moment
<minghua> Hobbsee: yeah, I get the meaning of the update ;-)  what I was trying to ask is why are you (if you are indeed) doing a main upload
<zakame> true, but still you'll need a core-dev to upload the updated package
<Hobbsee> oh, fair enoguh
<Hobbsee> figured that i could upgrade it, then someone else could have a look and upload it.    maybe this isnt the case. 
<zakame> you can, actually :)
* minghua is not worried about this security bug at all
* Hobbsee wouldnt want to dare upload it herself without anyone looking at it anyway - what if it suddenly downloaded onto everyones systems, then it was found not to work on theirs, and then everyone came running after me with flaming torches and pitchforks??? 
<minghua> it's not like I receive life critical messages signed by gpg every day
<minghua> Hobbsee: Hmm...  find a good hiding place before uploading?  :-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> in the basement, in a locked filing cabinet, where the lights had gone (and so had the stairs), with a large friendly sign on it saying "beware of the leppard"? 
<Hobbsee> dodgy paraphrase - i dont remember the exact quote
<zakame> lol
<Xoritor> i think i am getting the hang of this
<Xoritor> :-D
<Xoritor> yay
<Xoritor> are the the things in /usr/share/aclocal/ supposed to be in the -dev package of a library? 
<Xoritor> or a part of the standard package, in this case i made a -common for the *.so files and perl/python bindings
<Xoritor> im just not sure if the *.m4 should be part of -common or -dev
<Xoritor> to me its a -dev package, but im not 100% sure
<freetux> Bonjour  tous, je viens sur les conseils de tonio suite  un commentaire sur mon blog
<hugelmopf> hey motus... there is a lastfm player in debian testing and unstable and i was wondering, if we are going to have it for dapper?  it is not in the package list on packages.ubuntu.com. 
<LaserJock> hi MOTU world
<JohnnyMast> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> how is it going JohnnyMast ? 
<JohnnyMast> flex :) i never had time anymore to help out here
<JohnnyMast> but things are changing now
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: good :)
<JohnnyMast> :D
<Xoritor> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Xoritor
<G0SUB> LaserJock
<Xoritor> ok... to me .m4 files are part of a -dev package... but im not sure... this is an m4 file for aclocal (which i think should be in -dev)
<Xoritor> so where do you guys/gals think this should go ./usr/share/aclocal/libpreludedb.m4
<Xoritor> in a -dev or in the main .deb
<azeem> neither
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> in the -dev
<azeem> if at all
<azeem> what does it provide? 
<Xoritor> i will have to check one sec
<azeem> ah right, prelude refuses to use pkg-config, so it doesn't provide a .pc file either, reverting to M4 hacks
<Xoritor> dnl Autoconf macros for libpreludedb
<Xoritor> so is that a -dev package or not? 
<azeem> there is a -dev package already, right? 
<Xoritor> i normally would think so, but you never know with this
<LaserJock> G0SUB: hi, I'm working on the list at the moment ;-)
<Xoritor> im making one yes, but its not in there
<G0SUB> LaserJock great :)
<azeem> Xoritor: I'd put it in there, then
<Xoritor> azeem, i will have to add it
<LaserJock> hi raphink and azeem
<azeem> hi LaserJock!" 
<Xoritor> azeem, very cool thank you
<raphink> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> raphink: catch the train ok? 
<raphink> LaserJock: sure :)
<raphink> LaserJock: the train was very late ;)
<LaserJock> raphink: did you sleep at all? 
<raphink> 2 hours or so :)
<LaserJock> raphink: I probably had ~9 and I'm still feeling tired :(
<raphink> ;)
<LaserJock> doko__: had any luck with vnc4? 
<doko__> LaserJock: no, didn't try any further
<LaserJock> doko__: seems a shame, but I had a hard time figuring out what it was doing.  Carrying part of the X source with it seems like a problem to me. 
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<G0SUB> LaserJock any comments on the list? 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: just finished, take a look
<G0SUB> LaserJock great! 
<LaserJock> one thing I noticed is the Electronics section.  I wonder if we should add it
<G0SUB> hmm, electronics
<G0SUB> I wondered too
<LaserJock> I was thinking of adding electronics and weeding out some of Tex to specific packages that are useful for scientists
<G0SUB> hmm, possible
<LaserJock> I think electronics is closer to science than a lot of the tex stuff
<G0SUB> i agree
<LaserJock> hi mkrufky
<LaserJock> mkrufky: one thing to note is that you need to send a signed email to the REVU admins to get your gpg key in the keyring. 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: yeah, there are 129 tex source packages.  I don't think we need to carry all that. 
<G0SUB> yes
<Xoritor> yay
<LaserJock_lunch> I'll be back in a bit, lunch with the wife ;-)
<G0SUB> LaserJock_lunch heh :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<phanatic> hi sistpoty
<netzmeister> hi siretart
<netzmeister> ups..
<netzmeister> ;-)
<netzmeister> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi phanatic and netzmeister
<sistpoty> motu-meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<Tonio_> hello
<phanatic> hi Tonio_
<sistpoty> hi Tonio_
<sistpoty> Tonio_: motu-meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ;)
<Tonio_> oups, I completly forgot
<sistpoty> well, we didn't start yet ;)
<Tonio_> sistpoty: already started ? 
<Tonio_> okay :)
<Tonio_> sistpoty: everyone instroduced himself ? 
<sistpoty> no
<Tonio_> good
<Tonio_> sistpoty: thanks for the reminding ;)
<sistpoty> np ;)
<mkrufky> LaserJock_lunch: sorry, i was AFK when you wrote me
<slomo> oh there was a meeting?  damn...
<sebest_> hello slomo
<slomo> hi sebest_ :)
<slomo> sebest_: i wasn't very successfull with the dbus/avahi reconnection... you? 
<sebest_> neither, i wonder if writing python bindings on top of the c API wouldn't be a better solution
<raphink> yes there was ;)
<slomo> sebest_: maybe... but it should be possible with using dbus directly too... the question is how? :( 
<Xoritor> grrrrr
<Xoritor> so dh_strip is having fits
<Xoritor> dh_strip BFD: debian/samhain/usr/sbin/samhain: warning: Empty loadable segment detected, is this intentional
<Xoritor> works great for 64bit stuff... for 32bit stuff i get that ^
<sebest_> slomo: yes i should be, but i guess we would need some help from pydbus hackers :)
<slomo> sebest_: btw... http://avahi.org/ticket/19
<slomo> sebest_: will you care for it in the next days? ( sda dbus stuff, not that bug ;) )
<sebest_> i looked at the bug
<LaserJock> is the meeting over? 
<tseng> yes
<LaserJock> dang, it.  My wife called and asked if I wanted to go to lunch.  I totally forgot :(
<Xoritor> heh
* Xoritor hands LaserJock a pillow for his couch
<LaserJock> thanks Xoritor but I gotta get lots of work done :)
<LaserJock> so what's up with pushing the Dapper release?  What would that mean for us? 
<Xoritor> hehehe
<Xoritor> pushing?  as in "pushing back" ? 
<LaserJock> yeah, Mark is talking about pushing the Dapper release by ~ 6 weeks
<tseng> hm what for
<LaserJock> more polish, testing, and translations it appears
<LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-March/000734.html
<dolson> can someone assist me with a UVF exception request? 
<dolson> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ardour/+bug/34266
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34266 in ardour "ardour UVF exception request" [Normal,Needs info] 
<LaserJock> dolson: I think the suggestion is to go check out what has changed from the ardour website. 
<dolson> that is already in the report
<dolson> there is no ChangeLog file that I can find in the ardour soure tree, other than the one in debian/
<LaserJock> dolson: that is what I mean by going to their website
<dolson> I don't follow you.. I'm sorry
<tseng>  * matthias still waits for somebody to fix libbonoboui toolbars
<tseng> < pbor> heh
<tseng> ugh
<LaserJock> dolson: go to the ardour website and look for info on what changes were made
* tseng punches touchpad
<dolson> LaserJock: I did that already, and it is in that bug report... I don't understand what I am supposed to do
<LaserJock> dolson: ok, well it looks like dholbach and I both read over that too quickly ;-)
<dolson> I can paste it into a file and attach it I guess
<LaserJock> in some ways that might help, I'm so used to looking in files for that sort of thing
<dolson> I can tell :)
<Xoritor> ok if i am just adding a config option which number should i bump in this   3ubuntu10
<Xoritor> should that be 4ubuntu10 or 3ubuntu11 (i would say the latter)
<Xoritor> further right == least amount of change
<LaserJock> Xoritor: yeah, the version right before the "ubuntu" is for Debian ;-)
<Xoritor> k
<Xoritor> thought so
<siretart> dolson: did you compile, install and test the new ardour? 
<dolson> siretart: yeah, no changes need to be made
<siretart> if you compile and install packages you want an uvf request, please make a copy of the build- and installlog for attaching that to the report
<dolson> can you tell me where those files go?  I used pbuilder to build and dpkg to install
<sistpoty> dolson: you can use pbuilder --logfile <buildlog> to make a buildlog... for install-tests I'd suggest piuparts
<sistpoty> huhu siretart btw ;)
<siretart> hey, sistpoty! :) 
<LaserJock> Guten Abend siretart and sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock
* siretart loves sbuild, it mails buildlogs by default
<siretart> but you can also use tools like script(1)
<minghua> siretart: yeah, I think requiring pbuilder build log and piuparts test log for UVF exception request is a good idea
<LaserJock> is piuparts pretty easy to set up? 
<tseng> as easy as pbuilder
<tseng> you can even use the same targz
<siretart> it can use pbuilders base.tar.gz
<siretart> yes
<LaserJock> ok, cool.  I wanted to add it to the Packaging Guide. 
<dolson> well, it doesn't work for me.  that's great
<minghua> LaserJock: easy to set up, but require a fast mirror (or a local one) to use efficiently, IMO
<LaserJock> minghua: ok, I'll make a note of that.  Thanks
<minghua> LaserJock: and btw hello, and I missed the motu meeting as well :-(
<siretart> oh, there was a motu meeting, sorry for not attending, I was at uni until nearly 2000CET :/
<LaserJock> slomo: ping? 
<slomo> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> slomo: did you look at my tetex-src UVF exception request or just change the status because of dholbach's comment? 
<slomo> LaserJock: mostly because of dholbach's comment... but i looked at it as well :) i see no reason why we shouldn't update this... but i see no reason why we have this and should update it as well...
<LaserJock> slomo: well, I think it is because tetex-base doesn't ship the actual source
<LaserJock> slomo: honestly, I don't know much about the package.  I just use it.  I'm trying to get some info from Debian
<slomo> LaserJock: apt-get source tetex-base would get the source, wouldn't it?  is this just like linux-source / linux-image? 
<LaserJock> slomo: I don't think so
<slomo> so the sources of tetex-base contain not the sources?  ok... in that case we should update and i think dholbach will have the same oppinion then :)
<minghua> LaserJock: give me the bug number of this tetex-src UVF exception?   I want to subscribe to it
<LaserJock> slomo: I'm not positive, but I think that is the case.  I looked at a few of the tetex "packages" and the files in the source package of tetex-base ! = the files in tetex-src
<LaserJock> minghua: 34242
<minghua> thanks
<LaserJock_away> another meeting :(
<slomo> LaserJock_away: ok, interesting... add this to the bug please :)
<siretart> dolson: re seq24: isn't there an upstream changelog? 
<siretart> dolson: did you really test the new upstream version? 
<dolson> siretart: there is a changelog, although it hasn't changed in a long time.. the diff gives no output
<dolson> I made a song with it, so I think it's good
<dolson> the ardour buildlog is still being created, I'll attach it when this is complete
<siretart> hm.  I'm undecided about seq24
<dolson> that's understandable
<dolson> just go ahead and reject it.  I'm probably one of 10 people that use it anyhow
<dolson> I can't even get to the upstream site to get the list of changes.  it's been down for two days
<dolson> I can't even spell buildlog
<siretart> dolson: I have to decide which of the 2 version is more stable for dapper: the new one and the old one
<siretart> dolson: the decision woul be easier when I knew what actually was changed. 
<siretart> dolson: if you (and perhaps others) would say that they tested the new version, and it is more stable than the old one, and they don't expect bigger problems, and that the update is necessary and a good idea and so on, I'll happily agree
<siretart> same btw for the other 2 members of the uvf team
<dolson> I understand.  I'm trying to find a google cache
<dolson> well, the only thing I can say is that I had some lockups with the old one that the interface didn't respond.  now, whether that was to do with my kernel or the app itself, I don't know, I was messing with different patches and things
<dolson> other than that, I haven't had any issues with any version of seq24
<siretart> dolson: if you hadn't bad issues with the old version, how about leaving the old one dapper, and putting a newer on in dapper-backports? 
<dolson> siretart: that's fine with me.  I don't know how to get stuff into backports, but I asked jdong on the forums to see if my guys (from ubuntustudio) can cooperate with him to get updated audio apps... it's a big complaint I hear almost daily from people on IRC, MSN, AIM, etc
<siretart> dolson: well, if the problem was that the applications would be always outdated, then some add-on repository could help, but..
<dolson> I don't agree with a 3rd party repo.  that's why I'm here
<siretart> dolson: my impression is that many audio application are simply not mature enough.  so whats actually needed is more upstream work (upstreams are usually happy for any help they are offered)
<dolson> there's a difference between bleeding edge and "released almost a year ago"
<siretart> I agree that there is no need for another 3rd party repo
<siretart> so whats the point? 
<dolson> what's the point of what? 
<siretart> never mind
<dolson> Linux audio apps have come a long way... they're improving all the time.  I'm not a programmer, or I would help out upstream.  Just because they aren't at the exact same level as commercial apps for other OSes doesn't mean that we should simply ignore them
<siretart> the same applies not only to audio related applications but to every free software
<dolson> I agree.  and other people are concerned with other software, and not audio.  I am concerned with audio, and not others
#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-16
<mkrufky> LaserJock_away: i know you're not around -- my time was scarce today... Hopefully I'll have time early next week, and I'll read the motu wiki etc.... so i can upload that php5-mssql package
<mkrufky> LaserJock_away: thanks for the tip
<mkrufky> bye all
<tseng> nice, delay hits osnews
<tseng> in true form
<LaserJock> netzmeister: nabend! 
<sistpoty> siretart | slomo | dholbach: please check #4749
<slomo> sistpoty: XOR or OR? ;) 
<sistpoty> slomo: OR ;)
<slomo> didn't we approve this on the mailinglist already? 
<sistpoty> slomo: didn't remember it... will check
<netzmeister> hi LaserJock
<slomo> hi netzmeister
<netzmeister> hi slomo
<netzmeister> I'm happy Slomo..
<netzmeister> my new CPU is running..
<slomo> netzmeister: what CPU is this? 
<netzmeister> AMD X2
<netzmeister> 3800+
<netzmeister> i've compiled a SMP Kernel..
<slomo> why did you compile your own kernel? :)  the packaged ones already have SMP support
<netzmeister> thats very funny.. two "make" processes at the same time..
<sistpoty> slomo: you're right... just found it... sorry for the noise ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, just close the bug and upload :)
<sistpoty> slomo: it should be synced :/
<netzmeister> slomo:  Yes, but i have the kernel "angepasst" on my hardware. ;-) 
<netzmeister> "on" or "to".. hmm? 
<slomo> sistpoty: upload a fakesync... build1... i saw some people doing this lately...
<slomo> sistpoty: or change -X to -(X-1)ubuntu1
<sistpoty> slomo: do we have a statement from matt or colin about this? 
<slomo> netzmeister: customized for your hardware probably :) but does this really improve something?  do you have some numbers? :) 
<slomo> sistpoty: nope... but pitti does the build1 uploads and dholbach told me that -(X-1)ubuntu1 + sync request would be fine
<sistpoty> slomo: ok, will do... but I'll also forward this to the ML, as there are *many* sync requests which we can upload then
<netzmeister> slomo:  not really.. but the compile time for the kernel is 50% less as before..
<slomo> sistpoty: mine are already uploaded as -(X-1)ubuntu1 (at least the ones that matter)
<siretart> sistpoty: just fakesync it
<sistpoty> siretart: ok, will do
<crimsun> I love the term "fakesync"
<siretart> crimsun: I hate it, because it should better not be necessary :(
<LaserJock> why is it necessary? 
<siretart> syncs havn't been processed since the switch to launchpad
<LaserJock> so are we giving up on it then? 
<LaserJock> for right now
<crimsun> well if it continues this way, we may not have a choice but to fakesync
<LaserJock> hmm, but then NEW is still stuck
<LaserJock> that sounds like a mess
<slomo> LaserJock: NEW is processed again since ~2 weeks
<siretart> NEW is processed quite regularily
<slomo> siretart: we approved dosemu already at the mailinglist :) no need to approve it again
<LaserJock> not NEW syncs ;-)
<sistpoty> hm... I tried to get an answer on ETA for syncs on #lp tonite, but daf didn't even know syncs weren't processed
<siretart> I uploaded a NEW package yesterday, it was processed through new in a few hours.  THATS service :)
<slomo> LaserJock: fakesync the NEW packages :)
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> one of the packages is one I maintain in Debian
<LaserJock> I guess if syncs aren't going to be done any time soon I could fakesync it
<LaserJock> it just seems like a bad solution.  but I don't know what else we can do
<sistpoty> should we fakesync as -XbuildY or -(X-1)ubuntuY? 
<Erlang> netzmeister: you are the guy packaging Code::Blocks right? 
<slomo> sistpoty: -Xbuild1 should be better as this would be automatically synced later
<sistpoty> slomo: ok
<sistpoty> slomo: if an ubuntu-specific version is already present in the archives, will a -XbuildY override the ubuntu changes for next merges? 
<siretart> sistpoty: unless you need local (ubuntu specific) changes.  in that case it isn't a sync anymore, but an 'normal' upload
<siretart> sistpoty: the autosync mechanism won't sync an old version over if and only if it contains the string 'ubuntu' in the version
<slomo> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> ah... good, so that's the only magic included in there :)
<siretart> right
<siretart> but, the autosync script was running on dak.  I can imagine that it hasn't been ported to soyuz yet. 
<siretart> but anyway, this isn't a problem before dapper+1
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<slomo> sistpoty: please use the -v parameter for debuild/dpkg-buildpackage so all new changelog entries get included with the changes file
<sistpoty> slomo: hm?  what am I missing? 
<sistpoty> slomo: ah, k... thx
<slomo> np :)
<Erlang> slomo: is it mandatory for Ubuntu packages? 
<slomo> Erlang: only when your upload includes more than one new version... but that's the same for debian too (although you have only one new version per upload in general but for an exception look at gstreamer0.10)
<sistpoty> slomo: sorry, still don't get it... what do I need to have all changelog entries included in the newer version? ( I'm just apt-get sourcing the plain debian version and adding a changelog entry to it)
<minghua> sistpoty: user -v $old-version-number-for-ubuntu, I suppose
<minghua> sistpoty: in your dpkg-buildpackage or debuild command
<sistpoty> minghua, slomo: thx... just found that out :)
<slomo> sistpoty: but be carefull and don't spam -changes will the complete changelog from the beginning :)
<slomo> sistpoty: sometimes -v does funny things
<sistpoty> slomo: I cat *changes everytime after signing (and most of the time before signing as well, silly paranoia that is *g*)
<Erlang> slomo: oooh :| that means what I have in Debian NEW might get rejected AGAIN
<slomo> sistpoty: hm, i sign while building the source package... afterwards pbuilder on exactly that signed dsc and then upload when everything is fine :)
<slomo> Erlang: don't worry, the ftp-master don't look at such things normally... most of the time wrong debian/copyright is the reason for REJECTED ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not seeing why -v needs to be used
<Erlang> slomo: that was indeed the reason last time.   I hope what you say is true since NEW processing has been a bit long for me. 
<slomo> LaserJock: to get a complete changelog of things on changes... and the changelog function in launchpad seems to depend on it too
<slomo> Erlang: which package is it? 
<Erlang> erlang 10.b.9-2
<sistpoty> LaserJock: just try it with different versions and take a look at the .changes file ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: (i.e. with different versions after -v)
<slomo> Erlang: and you missed a copyright holder last time?  or what was wrong? :) 
<Erlang> slomo: yes I missed 2 applications that were GPL.   The rest of the thing is under Erlang Public License. 
<slomo> Erlang: happened to me with nemerle too ;)
<LaserJock> so should I always do -v or should I only do it when I need to include more than the lasted changelog entry? 
<slomo> LaserJock: only when more than the latest changelog entry is new
<LaserJock> slomo: ok, that makes sense. 
<LaserJock> raphink: ahh, you got it? 
<raphink> LaserJock: didn't buy it yet for read, but the deal is made, just have to get the money
<raphink> and it's already installed as double boot panther/kubuntu dapper
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> lucky :(
<raphink> heh
<raphink> for such a price I couldn't refuse ;)
<raphink> got this powerbook for 500
<raphink> :)
<raphink> 1GHz/768 RAM/60GB HD/15" screen
<raphink> I think it's rather good
<raphink> the keyboard is qwerty/arabic but I don' tmind since I never look at my keyboard ;)
<bmonty> hi everyone
<sistpoty> hi bmonty
<slomo> hi bmonty
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey sistpoty, slomo, and LaserJock! 
<bmonty> so we are uploading our own sync requests now? 
<sistpoty> bmonty: yep
<crimsun> I am totally uploading a new kernel.  Oh wait...
<bmonty> cool, I can clear my list now :)
<bmonty> crimsun: :)
<LaserJock> ok, well now how was this decided? 
<LaserJock> this came up before and there was quite a bit of opposition at that time.  Have we really decided to do that? 
<crimsun> I suppose ultimately our uvf/ff exception team is the authority
<sistpoty> LaserJock: slomo and siretart proposed it at 11.53 (utc) here
<bmonty> if I already requested the sync from elmo and I upload it myself, do I need to notify elmo that happened? 
<sistpoty> hm... no idea? 
<slomo> i guess that would mean even more work for him...
<slomo> now he would try to sync, see that we have a newer version and forget about it
<crimsun> bmonty: no, it'll just reject, and he'll frown, but there's no need to burden him even more)
<bmonty> ok, as long as I'm not the only MOTU he is frowning at :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: +1
<netzmeister> re
<Erlang> netzmeister: you are the guy packaging Code::Blocks right? 
<bmonty> is there a standard changelog entry that we would like to use to indicate a manual sync? 
<bmonty> somethine like "this is a sync, See Malone XXXXX for UVF approval." 
<sistpoty> bmonty: none that I know of... I'm using "Fakesync newer debian version"
<LaserJock> yeah, Fakesync sounds much more Dapper-like ;-)
<sistpoty> maybe I should give some funny quotes in the changelog instead *g*
<slomo> just use whatever you want as long as a human can understand that it's a fakesync and no other changes were done :)
<slomo> but i guess for UVF exceptions the malone bug number would be nice... siretart? 
<bmonty> sistpoty: your note about using "-v" only applies if there is an existing -buildY or -ubuntuY version, right? 
<sistpoty> bmonty: no... it applies every time, when there are debian versions "skipped" in ubuntu
<sistpoty> bmonty: i.e. if you have 3 changelog entries in the debian version, that aren't in the ubuntu version, you'll need to use -v for these three versions
<sistpoty> -v to have these versions in the changes-file even
<bmonty> sistpoty: ok, makes sense
<LaserJock> dang, the Dapper push back email from Mark is getting one of the most positive threads on ubuntuforums I've seen in a while
<crimsun> 6 weeks, eh? 
<dolson> that wouldn't extend FF by 6 weeks too, would it? 
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<Hobbsee> they're going to delay??? 
* Hobbsee is out of the loop on this one
<dolson> possibly
<Hobbsee> eek
<dolson> there's a meeting on 14th
<Hobbsee> *nods*
* Hobbsee searches for the time
<dolson> there's two times :)
<Hobbsee> oh, tech board
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> beginning or end time, or they're having two meetings? 
<dolson> two meetings
<Erlang> it's like netzmeister doesn't see me...
<netzmeister> re
<netzmeister> Erlang:  hi..
<Erlang> ah
<netzmeister> Yes i'm the guy.. ;-)
<netzmeister> aehm, i try to package it..
<Erlang> I just wanted to ask you if plan to push the package to Debian too? 
* minghua really doesn't like the "push back dapper by six weeks" idea :-(
<netzmeister> yes..
<netzmeister> Erlang:  why?  Would you like to push it? 
<Erlang> no no.   I'll tranfer you my ITP. 
<netzmeister> oh, I'm surprised..
<netzmeister> thx
<minghua> hi jaldhar
<minghua> jaldhar: I asked on #scim yesterday, and Fedora's scim maintainer told me that scim shouldn't interfere with skim in KDE
<minghua> jaldhar: I wonder what your skim problem is
<atie_> hi all
<minghua> hello atie_
<atie_> if I need to execute bootstrap text file in kde dir before run .configure, how to package it? 
<atie_> minghua, hi
<slomo_> atie_: what do you mean exactly?  just calling another command before configure? 
<atie_> yes... but file extention is text file. 
<minghua> atie_: what is the bootstrap file written in?  shell? 
<atie_> it's shell script. 
<slomo_> then call it like a shell script :)
<minghua> I suppose "/bin/sh bootstrap" will do, then
<slomo_> probably
<atie_> is it ok run run cvs commands too within package? 
<atie_> like these if [ !  -d "admin" ] ; then
<atie_>   echo "Please press enter directly for the next question about the password"
<atie_>   cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/scim login
<atie_>   cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/scim co -P -d admin skim/admin
<atie_> fi
<shawn_home> I wouldn't do that no
<shawn_home> what happens if the network is down? ;) 
<atie_> shawn_home, that's why I am asking... :)
<minghua> atie_: scim-hangul? 
<atie_> minghua, yes... for skim. 
* shawn_home ponders porting debian-sid khdapsmon to kubuntu 
<slomo_> atie_: nope that's not ok... why do you need to call cvs? :) 
<minghua> atie_: I believe scim-hangul 0.2.1 has skim support.   is there any reason you need a cvs version particularly? 
<minghua> slomo_: it's a very ugly hack in many SCIM module packages
<minghua> slomo_: they need some files, but all modules need exactly the same ones
<atie_> minghua, no... 0.2.1 has that.  author said he made mistake it. 
<slomo_> minghua: why don't you include them in the package? 
<minghua> slomo_: so they cvs checkout from another (central) tree when bootstrap it
<atie_> but, he has no plan for new release soon with correction. 
<minghua> slomo_: the released tarball has those files.   that's why I am asking why atie_ needs a cvs version
<minghua> atie_: hmm, I see
<slomo_> atie_: get a cvs checkout, make a tarball out of it and use that
* minghua agrees with slomo_ 
<slomo_> but note it in the version number
<slomo_> 1.2.3+cvs20060311 or similar
<atie_> slomo_, minghua thank for advice. 
<slomo_> atie_: but don't put the cvs checkout into a tarball... export it or run make dist in it or whatever :)
<atie_> I will talk author before using cvs version, to check his opinion. 
<atie_> slomo_, ok. 
<Erlang> netzmeister: The switch worked.   The ITP is yours now. 
<Erlang> I'm pretty happy not to have anything to do with C::B anymore. 
<netzmeister> okay.  thx Erlang..
<netzmeister> why? 
<slomo_> Erlang: hehe i can understand you... this package is a nightmare :)
<netzmeister> hrhr
<netzmeister> yes it is..
<jaldhar> minghua: thanks for asking.   I plan to look at fedora and suse's skim packages this weekend and see if we are doing something wrong
<minghua> jaldhar: oh great
<atie_> could someone sync for 33163?  It had approval. 
<Erlang> netzmeister: I chose C::B has a my first true Debian package.   It was a very good learning tool (especially before it was autotooled).   I've never really used C::B.
<minghua> atie_: just FYI:  I had planned to work on skim support for SCIM modules for dapper+1, but if you want to get it done for dapper, then by all means go ahead
<netzmeister> Erlang:  ah okay.. is use it.. and sometimes i help  the developer to fix bugs..
<Erlang> Then you'll certainly be useful as the packager. 
<atie_> minghua, current scim-hangul is ok with kubuntu.  so I think I don't need to bring it for dapper if plan sets for dapper+1. 
<minghua> atie_: if you don't change scim-hangul in ubuntu, I can assure you that I'll work on scim-hangul first
<atie_> minghua, I don't want to have two scim-hangul for ubuntu and debian. :) 
<minghua> atie_: the patch may even be ready before dapper+1 is open (especially if the six-week delay becomes true)
<minghua> atie_: glad to hear that.   I'll add a note about my plan in the bug
<atie_> minghua, no problem. 
<minghua> atie_: the correct skim support is in scim-hangul cvs, right? 
<atie_> minghua, I will make sure with author and his plan for 0.3.0. 
<minghua> atie_: cool, please send the information to me or to the bug, thanks
<atie_> minghua, I will let you know. 
<minghua> atie_: after you confirmed with upstream, I mean
<atie_> yes. 
<atie_> minghua, two days ago I sent Dr.Yang mails about scim-hangul situation. :) 
<minghua> atie_: Yooseong Yang?   Hmm, I probably should send him a mail as well...
<atie_> minghua, yes... he knew our improvement for scim-hangul in dapper. 
<netzmeister> Welcome Back LaserJock  ;-)
<LaserJock> danke netzmeister
<netzmeister> ;-)
<ajmitch> hi
<atie_> minghua, scim-hangul 0.2.2 will be released for packaging within 2 days.  ^^
<minghua> atie_: yay
<sistpoty> atie_: just about to sync malone: #33163
<atie_> sistpoty, yes? 
<sistpoty> atie_: yep... (will upload after test-building)
<atie_> minghua, I'll create a report for it once I will receive mail from author. 
<atie_> sistpoty, thank you so much. :) 
<minghua> atie_: great, thanks for contacting upstream
<sistpoty> thanks for figuring this atie_ ;)
<sistpoty> gna... -v doesn't produce the right thing with this :/
<sistpoty> dpkg-buildpackage -v even
<sistpoty> atie_: uploaded... will you care for closing the bugs, once the package has been built? 
<atie_> sistpoty, sure. :) 
<sistpoty> atie_: thx
<sistpoty> atie_: sorry, ttf-alee is in main... just got a rejected from LP :(
<atie_> sistpoty, no it's in universe. 
<atie_> sistpoty, let me double check. 
<minghua> atie_: in main here
<slomo_> at least the sources are in main
<atie_> oh no... what is solution? 
<sistpoty> atie_: ask s.o.  with main privs (e.g. slomo_) to upload the sync? ;) 
<slomo_> depends... what were the changes? :) 
<sistpoty> slomo_: malone 33163
<Ubugtu> malone bug 33163 in ttf-alee "UVF Exception: ttf-alee 6.4 -> 7.1" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33163
<ajmitch> ah
<slomo_> and main is frozen currently for flight5 anyway so this have to wait unless it's really really criticial and someone wants to talk to Mithrandir or infinity
<ajmitch> will need mdz/kamion approval for UVF as well
* minghua just want to remind people that main upload requires explicit premission right now
<slomo_> yes... that too
<atie_> when it moved to main? 
<minghua> (for flight 5)
<sistpoty> hehe, luckily I don't have main privs, so LP will care :)
<ajmitch> & if anyone tries to upload to main without getting approval, they have to pay
<atie_> slomo_, actullay the report is for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ttf-alee/+bug/6439
<Ubugtu> malone bug 6439 in ttf-alee "font names in ttf-alee 6.2 are changed, but leaves broken links." [ Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<minghua> ahh, broken defoma hints, I would bet
<slomo_> atie_: no doubt this will get in... but let's talk about this again after flight5, ok? :)  and please send a mail to kamion/mdz asking for a UVF exception
<atie_> slomo_, ok.  not a problem. 
<atie_> slomo_, including you? 
<slomo_> atie_: yes... and probably the UVF exception malone bug
<atie_> slomo_, thx
<atie_> sistpoty, you too. 
* sistpoty is off to bed... gn8 everyone
<atie_> bye all. 
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<minghua> hi LaserJock
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi G0SUB
<G0SUB> LaserJock :)
<G0SUB> LaserJock so what have you decided?  drop some TeX to accomodate electronics? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<G0SUB> ok
<LaserJock> I ended up with ~36 tex source packages
<G0SUB> ok
<LaserJock> I updated the list at tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/all_list.html
<G0SUB> checking
<LaserJock> I'm working on getting the Main/Restricted packages out since they are just confusing
<minghua> Hmm, I didn't know there is a channel #ubuntu+1
<G0SUB> heh
<G0SUB> I know, but what's it about? 
<LaserJock> the transition from breezy to dapper I think
<LaserJock> dist-upgrading and what not
<minghua> the equivalent of #ubuntu for dapper, it seems
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah.  maybe that is a better description
<G0SUB> i see
* minghua feels that #ubuntu+1 is overzealous on the stability of dapper
<LaserJock> I tend to be that way too
* kyral_ yawn
<minghua> I still see more bugs than I care to report...
<Kyral> Week off from school
<Kyral> Maybe I can finally get some Ubuntu Hacking done
<tritium> minghua: not all of us in there...
<LaserJock> hmm, I must have run Gentoo unstable for too long :-)
<minghua> to be fair, many of them may disappear after a fresh reinstall
<minghua> tritium: I am speaking of a general impression, I didn't mean everyone there
<tritium> yep
<minghua> I plan to stay at #ubuntu+1 after all
<LaserJock> anybody with grep-dctrl experience around? 
<LaserJock> I'm trying to search for more than one thing
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<LaserJock> how's the family? 
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<bmonty> dunno, I haven't seen them in about a week
<bmonty> supposedly they are fine :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: away on a trip? 
<bmonty> LaserJock: I gotta start the little guy on Ubuntu soon though :)
<bmonty> yeah
<LaserJock> yeah, Dapper+1 should get him membership I think
<bmonty> lol
<LaserJock> maybe honorary membership ;-)
<bmonty> he might be able to make a contribution to edubuntu
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> get him a keyboard and he should be able to make some IRC contributions
<bmonty> he really likes a couple of the xscreensaver offerings :)
<bmonty> right now, I think he would only drool on the keyboard......so not much contribution to IRC
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe he can be a beta tester for -artwork and -desktop
<shawn_home> asdfgh :)
<bmonty> LaserJock: definately, but judging from the threads on ubuntu-devel, I think his tastes and the tastes of the ubuntu community in general are drastically different
<LaserJock> but maybe better ;-)
<bmonty> personally, I'm ok with the new dapper look
<LaserJock> the orange is a bit much right now
<bmonty> I'm surprised that so many peopl have issue with it
<bmonty> the orange isn't that offensive to me, but my color vision isn't perfect so that might be why
<LaserJock> well, my only example was from gnome-help and the heading and text are bright orange
<bmonty> regardless of the colors, the other visual effects are pretty damn good
<bmonty> the scroll bars are very cool looking
<LaserJock> yeah
* minghua actually finds the scroll bars a little distracting
* minghua is not very accustomed to mouse-over activation
<minghua> maybe if there is a little delay like tooltips, I'll like it much better
<minghua> actually, I think I should file a bug saying this
<bmonty> I like it because I have confirmation that the mouse pointer is in the correct location
<bmonty> good night everyone
<zakame> hi all from manila! 
<siretart> morning
<ohnett> so will dapper be delayed, or is it just speculation? 
<siretart> ohnett: I just read the announcement
<ohnett> btw, will dapper feature an xgl-powered desktop by default? 
<siretart> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-March/000094.html
<siretart> ohnett: no way
<siretart> xgl won't be in any case in main, which is a prequisite for being installed by default
<ohnett> siretart: but will it be trivial to install xgl and use it with gnome and kde? 
<siretart> ohnett: it is quite trivial right now.  I don't expect this to change for dapper. 
<siretart> it is just not mature enough on many graphic drivers
<ohnett> siretart: will i need to install a modified version of kde/gnome? 
<ohnett> siretart: right
<zakame> dolson: rock on!  :D
<dolson> zakame: what
<ohnett> siretart: ... or is it more like an add-on? 
<siretart> ohnett: please read the initial announcement for instructions how to use/enable it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000079.html
<dolson> zakame: what did I do?? 
<ohnett> siretart: thank you
<zakame> dolson: your becoming a member, just read my email (at Manila now for class)
<siretart> ohnett: oh yes, and if you are interested in the development of ubuntu (or the sister distros xubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu), it is a great idea to subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce.  it is a quite low traffic mailing list
<dolson> zakame: oh, lol.  yeah, thanks :)
<siretart> and dolson will be a motu soon, I'm sure
<siretart> :)
<zakame> siretart++
<dolson> that's what everyone keeps telling me
<dolson> I just barely got accepted for membership though
<zakame> ooh town hall meeting
<ohnett> right now? 
<zakame> no not now
<dolson> lol
<siretart> on feb 14
<dolson> March you mean? 
<ohnett> oh
<ohnett> :)
<ohnett> i thought i lost it
<ohnett> :))
<ohnett> yes, march
<ohnett> is it safe enough by now to install dapper on my box and gradually update it until the official arrives? 
<dolson> ohnett: I'm running it.. seems safe to me.  but YMMV
<ohnett> (considering that i don't want to experiment too much with it)
<ohnett> if i use xgl and get into problems, will it be easy to simply undo all changes (uninstall)? 
<ohnett> (in dapper)
<dolson> to undo Xgl, yes
<dolson> to revert to Breezy... not gonna be easy
<ohnett> no, not to breezy
<ohnett> dolson: so you are planning to keep on updating until the official arrives? 
<dolson> the way I used Xgl was to edit gdm.conf-custom, and to revert, you just delete that file or rename it or whatever
<dolson> I update occasionally, whenever I feel like it
<ohnett> any idea when the new flight cd is supposed to be released? 
<dolson> no idea... I suppose it'll depend a bit on the outcome of Tuesday's meetings, but I don't know.  I'm not in the know for dev stuff
<siretart> ohnett: my personal impression of current dapper is that it is pretty usable.  since weeks.  there are still some annoying bugs though, but they are being tracked
<siretart> ohnett: anyway, if you want to help developing, it is a very good idea to actually use what you develop.  and backups are ALWAYS a good idea
<siretart> http://powerlineblog.com/archives/elmo.jpg
<dolson> THAT'S why dssi hasn't been sync'd yet! 
<netzmeister> ahh
<netzmeister> i'm tired..
<minghua> Hmm...
<minghua> ubuntuforums has a poll about the six-week delay, currenly with 309:28 in favor of delay
* minghua wonders what that means
<Lathiat> wondering what the delay is? 
<Lathiat> or what the results of that poll is? 
<minghua> the result of the poll
<minghua> "... does ubuntuforums users represent the opinions of the whole user base?" 
<siretart> I don't think so. 
<siretart> and I don't hope so
<siretart> Lathiat: see marks latest post to -devel-announce
<Lathiat> siretart: i saw it, i was tryign to figure out what mingua was wondering ;p
<siretart> h. ok
<G0SUB> jpatrick
<jpatrick> G0SUB: hi
<G0SUB> jpatrick heh, I was online :)
<jpatrick> I know :P
<ohnett> any idea when the new flight cd is supposed to be released? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: I released it about ten minutes ago, but it won't be announced before we have it synced to se.archive too, to avoid the DC being hammered. 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: say, two-three days? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: say later today if maswan decides to wake up soon. 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: thank you :)
<Mithrandir> ohnett: anyway, you can get it from cdimage.u.c already, I just won't announce it to the world just yet. 
<Mithrandir> (and would appreciate if slashdot wasn't told just yet)
<Lure> Mithrandir: but I do not see kubuntu there
<jpatrick> Lure: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/
<Lure> jpatrick: not found! 
<jpatrick> guess we'll just have to wait a while
<Mithrandir> Lure: nobody volunteered to test kubuntu and I was utterly busy testing ubuntu. 
<Mithrandir> Lure: so riddell asked me to postpone it until he had a chance to test it. 
<ohnett> when will the live and install cd be merged together? 
<Mithrandir> they won't? 
<jpatrick> Mithrandir: I think he means Expresso
<Lure> Mithrandir: then Flight5 wiki page has to change to reflect this
<Mithrandir> jpatrick: espresso is on the flight cd already. 
<ohnett> when will the live and install cd be merged together? 
<ohnett> anybody? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: they won't. 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: they were promissing they would
<Mithrandir> ohnett: "they"?   I think you're the victim of a misunderstanding. 
<Mithrandir> the live cd can be used for installations, but it's not going to replace the install cd completely. 
<ohnett> which one will be shipped for free? " they" said it's less expensive to only send one rather than two and they would very much want to only send one from now one.  which one? 
<ohnett> Mithrandir:
<Mithrandir> ohnett: yes, there's talk of just including the live cd in the shipit program, but that doesn't mean the install cd is going away. 
<ohnett> s/now\ one/now\ on/
<Mithrandir> just that it won't be part of shipit
<ohnett> Mithrandir: that's nice.  so we hope the install cd will be going away as soon as possible (or replaced with an installable dvd). 
<dolzzzon> I rather like the install CD
<Mithrandir> ohnett: a) it won't go away.   b) there already exists an installable dvd
<ohnett> dolzzzon: why? 
<ohnett> dolzzzon: what is the advantage? 
<Mithrandir> it's much easier to install using d-i than espresso, IMO.   And much better when you're dealing with a server and such
<minghua> and I doubt espresso has better i18n support than d-i right now
<dolzzzon> ohnett: I've had hardware that did not boot the live CD but took the install CD just fine. 
<Mithrandir> minghua: it uses d-i as the backend, more or less. 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: is there any difference between an ubuntu installed from the live cd and an ubuntu installed from the install cd (considering that the absolutely same packages are installed, of course)? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: no, there shouldn't be.   Any such disrepancies is a bug. 
<ohnett> dolzzzon: is there any difference between an ubuntu installed from the live cd and an ubuntu installed from the install cd (considering that the absolutely same packages are installed, of course)? 
<minghua> Mithrandir: oh thanks.   but I think my argument stands (there are quite a few languages are 100% translated in d-i)
<ohnett> dolzzzon: maybe it's just a bug, as it's quite early a feature
<ohnett> Mithrandir: then what is the advantage of the install cd over the live one? 
<dolzzzon> ohnett: if I can't BOOT the Live CD to do the install, how can I FIX the problem once I get the base Ubuntu installed? 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: doesn't this mean "they" will eventually drop the install cd? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: it's much easier to use when you don't have a mouse or don't have a monitor? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: who are those "they" you keep talking about? 
<dolzzzon> ohnett: I'm talking about Breezy's Live CD.  it did not boot on hardware the the installer worked on
<ohnett> Mithrandir: or, if not, what will encourage them not to? 
<dolzzzon> I don't understand why we want to eliminate a text-based install.  it's preferred by many people
<Mithrandir> ohnett: why?   The live installer won't support serial installs for instance.   It probably won't support netboot installs.   It doesn't do LVM, doesn't do lots of funky stuff which d-i does. 
* minghua doesn't see anyone else other than ohnett that wnat to eliminate the text-based install CD
<Mithrandir> ohnett: espresso is an installer which aims to work for 90% of people, not solve every use case possible. 
<dolzzzon> the way I look at it, the Live CD installer is good for newbies
<dolzzzon> minghua: yes, by "we" I meant ohnett's "they" :)
<Mithrandir> ohnett: to make it completely clear:  Ubuntu will _not_ drop the regular install CD in the foreseeable future. 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: it's not you or anybody here that decides for ubuntu.  it's a collective entity (catalysed by its sabdfl).  that's whom i call "they". " they" is the people usually deciding in *any* democracy, which makes the *individual* never be able to decide. 
<minghua> dolzzzon: oh.   I was hoping you know who this mysterious "they" are.   ;-)
<Mithrandir> ohnett: dude, don't you think Mark's going to listen to his engineers?   He's not a fool. 
<dolzzzon> ohnett: where did "they" say that they wanted to eliminate the d-i CD? 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: why should all live cd's be worse than knoppix all the time? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: huh? 
<dolzzzon> lol, where did that come from? 
<Mithrandir> what's worse about Ubuntu's live CD than knoppix? 
<ohnett> minghua, dolzzzon: no, folks, it's all just a matter of english grammar, so let's not make it a political issue. " they say bush's's bigger than saddam's" <-- who's "they" in here?  the guys that (were) scrood (by) both?  no, it's just an impersonal pronoun.  it actually means "it is said". 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: why would mark (pbuh) be fool if listening to his engineers? 
* dolzzzon missed where Mithrandir said that...
<sladen> ohnett: I think Mithrandir said the opposite
<sladen> ohnett: relax, the install-cd will be there (as will the much more useful netinst CDs), just that shipit will probably switch to espresso+livecd combo cds
<ohnett> dolzzzon: "Mithrandir ohnett: dude, don't you think Mark's going to listen to his engineers?   He's not a fool." 
<dolzzzon> right...
<dolzzzon> Mithrandir is saying that Mark WILL listen to his engineers (some of them are in here, you know) because he is not a fool..
<jpatrick> dolzzzon: congrats on membership
<dolzzzon> thanks jpatrick :D
<ohnett> dolzzzon: so, right, Mithrandir never said that.  i simply saw "do" instead of "don't"
<ohnett> Mithrandir: sorry. 
<ohnett> sladen: right :)
<ohnett> sladen: is flight 5 also installable? 
<dolzzzon> lol
<ohnett> i have been disconnected
<ohnett> is somebody answered in the meantime, please paste it again
<sladen> you got kicked for flooding
<ohnett> sladen: really?!? 
<jpatrick> "[12:04:06]  <dolzzzon> lol"
<ohnett> sladen: i wasn't flooding.  are you kidding? 
<dolzzzon> <-- ohnett has quit (Excess Flood)
<ohnett> maybe it's my ip class, it can't be my nick
<ohnett> or my ip
<ohnett> dolzzzon, sladen, jpatrick, Mithrandir: is the dapper flight 5 live cd also installable? 
<ohnett> dolzzzon, sladen, jpatrick, Mithrandir: (y/n/dune) :)
<dolzzzon> I would think it has the espresso installer on it
<dolzzzon> I haven't tried it
<sladen> ohnett: about 12hours
<ohnett> sladen: i don't understand.  how is "about 12 hours" answering my "is the dapper flight 5 live cd also installable?"?! 
<jpatrick> hey Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi jpatrick
<jpatrick> any word on the netswitch thingys? 
<Gloubiboulga> I think the problem is the libswitch package, not netswitch
<sladen> ohnett: oh sorry.   Yes, it has espresso on it
<Gloubiboulga> jpatrick, Tonio should have sent a mail to Kamion to ask him details
<sladen> Mithrandir: what's the setup with things like 'sshd' on the livecd (which was shipped, but not installed on the install cd);  are they populated into the apt-cache
<jpatrick> Gloubiboulga: okay
<Mithrandir> sladen: apt-get update is run on the live cd, yes. 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: yes, flight 5 is installable. 
<sladen> Mithrandir: if I do an espresso install without net connectivity, is sshd available to be installed
<Mithrandir> sladen: it's not on the CD, no. 
<Mithrandir> sladen: so we don't have the stuff in ship available on the live cd, no
<sladen> Mithrandir: ta, that's what I was after
<sladen> Mithrandir: any idea how many packages that currently is
<Mithrandir> sladen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper/ship
<dolzzzon> minghua: I think it was you earlier who wondered why the poll on UF was so much in favor of delay, and I think it's largely to do with the misconception that Ubuntu devs will work on Xgl... that's what my theory is anyhow
<minghua> dolzzzon: yes, it was me.   I don't have a good guess, but seeing people talking about having networkmanage (name?)  0.6 on forums, I tend to agree with you
<ohnett> Mithrandir: i never downloaded the flight 4 live, so please tell me: is it installable, too? 
<Mithrandir> ohnett: yes. 
<Mithrandir> not that I'd recommend installing flight 4 now that 5 is out
<tseng> good morning Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> hiya tseng
<slomo_> *yawn* hi everybody :)
* dolzzzon just notices that the UPG is in the System Documentation :D
<jpatrick> dolzzzon: Ubuntu Packaging Guide? 
<dolzzzon> yeah
<jpatrick> wrote bits of that
<dolzzzon> I haven't looked it over much yet, but I think it will be invaluable to me and others I encourage to get interested in packaing
<dolzzzon> *packaging
* jpatrick is doing some writing right now
<ohnett> Mithrandir: of course i'll install flight 5 :).  thanks. ( btw, any idea how many more flights until final?) 
<dolzzzon> I *really* like Yelp and the docs included in Ubuntu
<Mithrandir> ohnett: probably no more, since BetaReleas is March 23rd. 
<ohnett> Mithrandir: maybe the beta release will be later than 23, now that dapper is delayed, right? 
<minghua> ohnett: that's not decided yet
<minghua> (whether dapper will be delay or not)
<Mithrandir> ohnett: it's not delayed, there's a proposal for a delay.   In which case I suspect we'll see two more flight. 
<ohnett> minghua: (got it)
<ohnett> how many betas are there supposed to be? 
<ohnett> how many betas are supposed to be there? 
<ohnett> or expected
<Mithrandir> ohnett: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<ohnett> Mithrandir: thank you
<kelmo_lap> hi siretart
<siretart> kelmo_lap: hey there! :) 
<tseng> lucas is the ruby guy, right? 
<Lathiat> yeh
<tseng> oh i figured it outmyself with some gdb love
<tseng> ruby segfaulting all over the place on my linode
<Lathiat> what waas the cause? 
<tseng> uml doesnt support tls, a glibc upgrade put the tls libs back
<Lathiat> ah
<tseng> gdb++
<Lathiat> i got my copy of programming ruby (dave thomas) and agile web development with rails a couple days ago
<tseng> great books
<Lathiat> and i wrote some new domain management scripts for bur.st in ruby
<Lathiat> that go edit config files etc
<Lathiat> was good
<tseng> i want the rails cookbook
<Lathiat> the programming rails book is a good quick reference if nothing else
<Lathiat> has nie good descriptiosn of all the classes and methods easy to find
<Lathiat> ignoring the rest of it :)
<tseng> hm why
<Lathiat> oh i plan to go through it, just so far its been a good quick ref ;p
<tseng> now i can work on typo with out ever other page crashing, this is nice
<Lathiat> hehe
<Lathiat> mm there are absolutely no linodes free
<Lathiat> heh
<tseng> really? 
<Lathiat> yeh
* tseng bugs mikegrb
<Lathiat> more availabel in  4 days apparently
<Lathiat> what do you find it like? 
<Lathiat> which one have you got? 
<Lathiat> can you tell me what ping you get to 202.72.150.106 ? 
<tseng> i have a 160
<tseng> Lathiat: nothing
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> thats odd
<Lathiat> hrm it is indeed not repsonding
<Lathiat> oh well
<Lathiat> 203.30.47.18 ? 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i firmly believe that to use wpa_sup the driver type must be given by admin, not guessed (like suggested in some reports), at least until wifi modules on linux stabilize somewhat
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: the second gets a response
<kelmo_lap> siretart, in furute, i'd would think it may be okay to fall back to wext
<kelmo_lap> future*
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: 9% packet loss
<Hobbsee> well, drops 1 packet, that's all
<siretart> kelmo_lap: you mean you see a relaistic chance that madwifi-ng could implement wext19 fully? 
<kelmo_lap> haha, not anytime soon unfortunately
<kelmo_lap> but . . . 
<siretart> well, I have no objection to fall back to wext.  centrinos are quite common nowadays
<kelmo_lap> i did use wext when madwifi's own stuff was broken in that regard
<siretart> interesting
<kelmo_lap> in early days
<kelmo_lap> but that was a crude hack
<kelmo_lap> ignoring the scanning code in madwifi itself
<Lathiat> Hobbsee: rtt? 
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: this? 
<Hobbsee> 15 packets transmitted, 14 received, 6% packet loss, time 14011ms
<Hobbsee> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 69.821/71.288/74.156/1.192 ms
<Lathiat> from a linode? 
<Hobbsee> dont know what that is...
<Lathiat> ok nm
<Lathiat> Hobbsee: where do you live? 
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: sydney, australia
<Lathiat> hehe, no wonder :)
<Lathiat> <- perth
<kelmo_lap> brissie ; )
<tseng> Lathiat: 25 packets transmitted, 25 received, 0% packet loss, time 24760ms
<tseng> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 247.641/248.023/248.519/0.573 ms
<siretart> kelmo_lap: do you already have a solution to the 'quoting' problem? 
<tseng> from linode
<Lathiat> tseng: cheers
<kelmo_lap> siretart, well, yeah.  if you find this acceptable:
<tseng> note linode has 2 data centers
<kelmo_lap> siretart, wpa-passphrase plaintext-string // wpa-psk 0102020304a0b0e0f0. . . . 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, all other input is pretty clear in the sources as to what "type" it is
<kelmo_lap> so i quoted accordingly
<kelmo_lap> it really just needs some testing / debugging with different configurations
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I find that acceptable. 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, ssid is usually always plain text, but i added a special option of you like to give it as a hex value (not sure if that is absolutely required yet)
<kelmo_lap> wpa-ssid // wpa-ssid-hex
<siretart> kelmo_lap: for being able to provide something which is even easier to use, I think some configuration/roaming daemon or something would be required anyways.  see my recent posts to pkg-wpa-devel
<siretart> kelmo_lap: ssid in hex?  who is using this weird stuff? 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, like is said, don't know if it is absolutely required
<kelmo_lap> s/is/i
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I don't think this is that necessary, for weird and painfull setting the user can revert to a handcrafted wpasupplicant.config anytime
<kelmo_lap> siretart, ack
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I'd rather like to get our -experimental branch uploaded quickly so we can have our users test that
<kelmo_lap> siretart, agreed
<kelmo_lap> siretart, and i can prepare something for the kanotix guinea pigs too ; )
<kelmo_lap> and some interested madwifi-ers too
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I've just committed an a bit polished /etc/default/wpasupplicant  for driver selection and fall back tp wext
<siretart> I havn't tested it yet, but I think it should work
<kelmo_lap> yes, just have looked at that
<kelmo_lap> diff looks good
<kelmo_lap> DRIVER=$(cat /etc/wpasupplicant.driver)
<kelmo_lap> did you wanna make that wpasupplicant.$INTERFACE ? 
<siretart> err, rather /etc/wpasupplicant.driver.$INTERFACE
<kelmo_lap> yeah
<kelmo_lap> s.th.  like that
<siretart> argl, damn typo, I'll fix it
<siretart> commited
<kelmo_lap> also, think about having a /etc/wpasupplicant folder with this stuff
<kelmo_lap> avoiding pollution to /etc
<siretart> right.  perhaps we should do that
<kelmo_lap> it would be similar to the way hostapd package works
<kelmo_lap> siretart, right now, preup will exit if conf *or* driver is not given, what are your thoughts? 
<siretart> kelmo_lap: conf has to be set to activate either mode 1 or 2.  if it isn't set, bail out, because we have to assume that the user wants to use mode 3 or the user doesn't want wpasupplicant to be started at all
<kelmo_lap> yes
<siretart> kelmo_lap: ah, yes, pre-up should fall back to wext as well, agreed
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i formly beleive we should suggest setting wpa-driver in all example however
<kelmo_lap> firmly*
<kelmo_lap> and docs, etc
<siretart> agreed.  this saves us bugreports
<kelmo_lap> but i would sooner fallback to wext, than maintain some deterministic shell code like suggested in some bug reports
<siretart> I think a note in README.modes that we fall back to wext is sufficient.  lets say that there and only there.  the examples should provide some driver
<kelmo_lap> agreed
<MrFaber> hi all
<jaldhar> Just checking...if a debian version is -1 and you need to change the dependencies for Ubuntu does it become -1ubuntu1? 
<Lathiat> yep
<MrFaber> Who is the main fixer for universe packages today? :) 
<siretart> raphink-pbook: I added you to keyring@tiber.tauware.de, I hope you don't object
<raphink-pbook> siretart: sure :)
<raphink-pbook> siretart: so I receive the emails to my box? 
<siretart> raphink-pbook: I hope you have a ~/.forward or ~/.procmailrc on tiber
<jpatrick> raphink-pbook: could you run revu-tools on scim-pinyin? ( just to triple-check)
<raphink-pbook> I do siretart
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: ok
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: running
<jaldhar> And if the package is for universe the distribution in debian/changelog is dapper/universe or just universe? 
<jpatrick> dapper
<jpatrick> raphink-pbook: cool, thanks
<jaldhar> or just dapper :-)
<raphink-pbook> just dapper jaldhar
<raphink-pbook> universe will be added automatically (by germinate iirc) to control
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: seems it FTBFS
<raphink-pbook> I'll update the pbuilder just in case
<raphink-pbook>  ;)
<siretart> raphink-pbook: that is done by NEW processing.  it is called an 'override'
<raphink-pbook> ok
<raphink-pbook> :)
<jpatrick> raphink-pbook: :)
<raphink-pbook> ;)
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: you could run it yourself btw
<raphink-pbook> you're a MOTU, so you can get an account on tiber if you want it
<jaldhar> aargh and I guess I need to enable universe in my pbuilder chroot
<raphink-pbook> jaldhar: sure
<raphink-pbook> jaldhar: if you use an apt.config dir you just have to add the universe line, then update your pbuilder with override-config
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: would you like a pbuilder-enabled access? 
<jpatrick> raphink-pbook: I thought only REVU admins could do that
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: you're mixing two things
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: REVU admins are people with admin rights on the REVU interface
<raphink-pbook> revu-tools are bash tools available on tiber
<raphink-pbook> so you don't need to a be a REVU admin to launch them, but to be in the pbuilder group on tiber
<raphink-pbook> with an ssh access
<jpatrick> ok
<raphink-pbook> and as a MOTU, you can get an account on tiber so you can run these tools
<jpatrick> great, yes please then
<MrFaber> Who can fix the loop-aes-source package? :) 
<kelmo_lap> MrFaber, you! ; ) 
<MrFaber> kelmo_lap, I would
<MrFaber> just upload the current debian sid loop-aes package
<MrFaber> that works in dapper
<MrFaber> a bug is already posted in launchpad
<MrFaber> no one hast confirmed
<MrFaber> posted it here some days ago
<MrFaber> but there was a conference or something like that
<MrFaber> or fix it, if it is easy
<MrFaber> but the debian package works
<MrFaber> in dapper
<siretart> kelmo_lap: when do you expect we can upload to experimental? 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, well, when you are happy really.  i expect we can improve the documentation and/or approach as we get feedback
<kelmo_lap> if you are keen, go for it ; )
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I thought you wanted to provide quoting for the wpa key before uploading? 
<kelmo_lap> siretart, well, you either choose wpa-passphrase (for plaintext) or wpa-psk for hex key, and the quoting is then done as neccessary
<MrFaber> kelmo_lap, so what to do? 
<kelmo_lap> that is already there, unless i misunderstand you
<MrFaber> it is not fixed
<siretart> kelmo_lap: ah, great. 
<MrFaber> there is only a but report
<kelmo_lap> and pre-up basically supports everything that wpa_cli can right now
<MrFaber> which everyone ignores ;)
<siretart> cool
<Yagisan> G'day siretart.  Was avidemux 2.1.1 ever synced ?  I didn't see it in dapper, and just backported marrilats to breezy (I just got bit by the opendml bug - hence the backport)
<kelmo_lap> MrFaber, if i used and/or developed ubuntu i may comment more ; )
<kelmo_lap> MrFaber, i was here a few days ago, and you were asking the exact same questions
<MrFaber> yes, thats what I have said
<siretart> Yagisan: was it UVF exception approved? 
<MrFaber> But nothing changed and release comes nearer every day :)
<siretart> Yagisan: no syncs have been done since soyuz yet, afaik
<kelmo_lap> MrFaber, so i'd suggest you modify the current debian package, diff it against the ubuntu one, and submit a patch to the BTS
<MrFaber> I don't want to bother you but I am frighthen that the bug gets in release
<MrFaber> kelmo_lap, I don't know how
<kelmo_lap> well, it don't matter to me, i'm not involved in ubuntu's packages ; )
<MrFaber> btw.  the debian one is 3.1c instead of 3.1b
<Yagisan> siretart: checking motu archives now to double check
<MrFaber> Who is the involved men and where they are :-D
<kelmo_lap> anyway, loop-aes can largely be replaced by dm, afaik
<MrFaber> not this discussion again :)
<Yagisan> siretart: hmm, not that I can see.   Actually I don't see anything I did a UVF exception report on
<siretart> Yagisan: please file a UVF exception report then
<Yagisan> siretart: another one ? 
<siretart> Yagisan: err, sorry if I misunderstood you.  which is the bugno then? 
<Yagisan> siretart.  they were posted to the list on Feb 16 - before the switch to lp
<tseng> Mithrandir: is espresso good enough to do my laptop test with for flight 5? 
<Mithrandir> tseng: if you can test with both espresso and d-i, that'd be best, but yes, we're absolutely interested in having espresso tested. 
<siretart> Yagisan: ah, I see.  well, no I don't think anything has been synced yet
* siretart is just a little confused
<Yagisan> siretart: it seems the public list archive scrubbed the UVF reports eg https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000449.html
<siretart> kelmo_lap: ok, I'll then do some testing on the package and ask my sponsor to upload it then.  ok? 
<Yagisan> ok siretart.  avidemux is now https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/+bug/34448
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34448 in avidemux "UVF Exception: avidemux 2.1.1" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<siretart> Yagisan: did you really test the new avidemux? 
<Yagisan> siretart: using it right now (on breezy amd64).  Haven't tested i386. 
<siretart> great :)
<Yagisan> siretart: that patch was needed, as without it, the damm thing would not build
<Yagisan> siretart: I had a 5.3GB .avi from a tv capture, and 2.0.42 choked and died on it
<tseng> Mithrandir: i removed and readded a partition (i couldnt seem to just format it in one step) and espresso is nicely hung
<tseng> Mithrandir: im about to xkill if you dont have a magic trick
<tseng> Mithrandir: mmm, if i leave it as is the next step lets me do exactly what i wanted. 
<tseng> Mithrandir: i really like this though
<Mithrandir> tseng: ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer espresso and send /var/log/installer/espresso to a bug report, svp. 
<freeflying> Yagisan: hi
<Yagisan> G'day freeflying
<Yagisan> freeflying: so, will you go to the UK ? 
<freeflying> Yagisan: won't , sue to the damn visa
<freeflying> s/sue/due
<Yagisan> freeflying: I couldn't go either.  1) programming language, 2) wife's injury
<freeflying> Yagisan:  :)
<kimatrix> Hi, i have a quastion
<kimatrix> i am programming in java for 2 years now, was wondering if i could contribute to the ubuntu project in any way? 
<Erlang> check the candidate packages list, choose one, package it, upload to REVU ;)
<kimatrix> is ther any more info about that, becose i have never done something like this? 
<Erlang> yes, lemme see
<kimatrix> thank you
<Erlang> there are some pointers there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips?highlight=%28MOTU%2FPackages%2FPackaging%29, but you should the Debian New Maintainer Guide, that's what got me started. 
<kimatrix> gone check the link you gave me
<Erlang> But there is all sorts of ways you can contribute: translate, document, bugfix, support new users, etc.   They all count. 
<jpatrick> code
<Erlang> yeah
<kimatrix> transalte, document, new users arent mine best points.  it should be bugfixes and code
<kimatrix> but i am not so cood in c/c++, i am more of a java programmer
<Erlang> What I've found fun is trying to find a bug that I can fix but has been neglected and contribute a patch for it. 
<kimatrix> As i can see 99% is done in c/c++ it doesn't sound very promesing for me :P
<Erlang> sometimes the problem is with the rules file of the package or something else, but not in the upstream source...
<Erlang> and there are quite a bit of Java libraries in universe
<Erlang> but the rules file is related to packaging for Debian/Ubuntu, so you probably need to practice before fixing bugs in other package. 
<kimatrix> i think so
<kimatrix> i am reading the debian Maintainer's Guide
<jpatrick> kimatrix: not complete but you might want to see: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<kimatrix> jpatrick gona look
<jpatrick> raphink-pbook: how do I run this? : s
<jpatrick> I keep getting permission denied
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: run what? 
<jpatrick> revu-report
<jpatrick> any revu-* script
<raphink-pbook> oh right there's no man on REVU :(
<raphink-pbook> hehe
<raphink-pbook> well
<ajmitch> jpatrick: you're not in the right group? 
<raphink-pbook> yes he is ajmitch
<jpatrick> I'm in pbuilder
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: cd to teh directory where the files you want to review are
<jpatrick> pbuilder-dapper build *.dsc works
<raphink-pbook> cd /var/revu/revu1-incoming/$package-$version
<ajmitch> jpatrick: I saw a sudo warning from you
<raphink-pbook> then run revu-report
<jpatrick> jpatrick@tiber:/var/revu/revu1-incoming/vtigercrm-0602261945$
<raphink-pbook> ajmitch: that's when I tested his account, I had not set the group right
<raphink-pbook> ajmitch: my fault sory
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> does he need to be in the revu group as well? 
<raphink-pbook> no
<raphink-pbook> not that I know
<raphink-pbook> hmm
<raphink-pbook> let me think ...
<raphink-pbook> I'll check :)
<ajmitch> he will...
<ajmitch> all the dirs are owned by group revu
<raphink-pbook> right
<raphink-pbook> I'll add him
<raphink-pbook> thanks for pointing that ajmitch
<ajmitch> :)
<jpatrick> explains >> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/596477
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: try again
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: read this too : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/REVU-Tools
<jpatrick> that's what I was reading from
<mat|l> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/blam/+bug/4839 has had a fix for ages, without it blam doesn't work at all.  can anyone take a look at it? 
<Ubugtu> malone bug 4839 in blam "(dapper) blam stopped working" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<G0SUB> vuntz ping
<jpatrick> 'dpkg-deb: `vtigercrm-core_4.2.3-0ubuntu1_all.deb' contains no control component `preinst''
<raphink-pbook> that's normal jpatrick
<raphink-pbook> it's just a warning from the script, not an error
<jpatrick> oh ok
<vuntz> G0SUB: pong
<G0SUB> vuntz got my mail? 
<vuntz> is maybe a good answer? :-) 
<vuntz> what's your email address? 
<G0SUB> vuntz hehe ... b.ghose at gnu.org.in
<vuntz> oh, yes, here it is
<vuntz> I'm planning to send a mail to the three people who wrote me about pessulus
<vuntz> explaining what you can work on
<G0SUB> okay
<vuntz> but if you have good ideas on what to work on, go ahead :-)
<ajmitch> vuntz: what a good way to sucker people into hacking on your code ;)
<G0SUB> vuntz let's take a look at the current issues ... we can go for enh later
<G0SUB> ajmitch ;)
<vuntz> ajmitch: next thing is try to get people to work on my dissertation ;-)
<G0SUB> lol! 
<Tm_T> good morning
<jpatrick> evening
<jpatrick> siretart: Tm_T would like uploader rights on revu
<Tm_T> do I? 
<Tm_T> ;)
<Tm_T> f*ing sleepless nights...
<jpatrick> Tm_T: in my case the sleep's the problem
<raphink-pbook> jpatrick: I'll do it
<ajmitch> have you followed the usual procedure of uploading key to keyserver, sending a signed email? 
<Tm_T> raphink-pbook: yay! 
<raphink-pbook> Tm_T: send an email to keyrings signed with your key
<Tm_T> raphink-pbook: doing it at the moment
<raphink-pbook> oki
* ajmitch goes back into his hole & shuts up
<Tm_T> I'm bit lost atm but I'll hopefully manage to do it
<raphink-pbook> ajmitch: aaaw :(
<Tm_T> that revu thing sounds good
* jpatrick wonders "what the hell..." as he reads an email from the Ubuntu Catalan Translators
<raphink-pbook> Tm_T: did you send the mail? 
<Tm_T> not yet
<Tm_T> big wheel turns slow
<Tm_T> (what wheel?) 
<raphink-pbook> hmmm
<Tm_T> haven't got any caffeine today
<raphink-pbook> talking of linear or rotating speed? 
<Tm_T> talking about fourth dimension
<Tm_T> sent
<Tm_T> ...I think
<Tm_T> I hope some day I don't have to hide behind my sleepness... coffee ->
<Toadstool> hi here
<raphink-pbook> hi
<jpatrick> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi jpatrick
<Erlang> is it possible to create a 32 bits dapper pbuilder on an AMD64 system? 
<Toadstool> Erlang: yep in a chroot
<Erlang> I need to make a 32 bits chroot to create a 32 bits pbuilder chroot?? 
<Toadstool> the fact is, i used a dapper i386 chroot on my amd64 box cause some apps didn't really work in breezy 64, thus i had my pbuilder in this chroot, i've never tried to do it another way :)
<Erlang> that could be a solution... will think about that.   thank you. 
<raphink-pbook> Tm_T: what add did you send your email to? 
<raphink-pbook> didn't receive anything yet
<ajmitch> To: keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<ajmitch> Subject: REVU keyring
<ajmitch> raphink-pbook: you didn't receive that email? 
<raphink-pbook> hmmm
<raphink-pbook> didn't receive it yet
<ajmitch> I got it quite awhile ago
<raphink-pbook> it seems my ubuntu.com email redirection is very slow today
<raphink-pbook> a mail sent to me to this address took about 15 minutes to reach me earlier
<raphink-pbook> I should set to my gmail address directly maybe ;)
<ajmitch> works fine for me
<raphink-pbook> there
<raphink-pbook> that'll be faster
<ajmitch> my .forward on tiber points to ajmitch@ubuntu.com
<raphink-pbook> my ubuntu.com address often takes time to forward
<jpatrick> mine sometimes lags too
<G0SUB> whom do I ask for a ubuntu.com forwarder? 
<ajmitch> you have to be an ubuntu member
<jpatrick> G0SUB: it comes on after a while
<jpatrick> ajmitch: he is
<raphink-pbook> G0SUB: just wait
<ajmitch> and then it uses your preferred address on launchpad
<raphink-pbook> G0SUB: and try it from time to time, since elmo won't tell you when it's ready
<G0SUB> but what about the forward username? 
<raphink-pbook> G0SUB: your LP nickname
<raphink-pbook> @ubuntu.com
<G0SUB> oh! ... 
* G0SUB changes his LP nick
<jpatrick> raphink-pbook: well Riddell's ain't
<ajmitch> jpatrick: he's special
<ajmitch> his one predates launchpad usage
<jpatrick> yep :)
<G0SUB> ajmitch isn't there any way to get a diff.  username for the alias? 
<jpatrick> G0SUB: change it
<ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
<G0SUB> my preferred nick is taken in LP
<ajmitch> then you're out of luck
<G0SUB> :(
<raphink-pbook> G0SUB: then you can't have it, unless you get an agreement with this other person who has it
<raphink-pbook> lucas managed to get his nick on LP
<raphink-pbook> asking the guy who had it
<G0SUB> raphink-pbook the other person is totally inactive
<G0SUB> https://launchpad.net/people/bg
<raphink-pbook> G0SUB: then ask him/her
<G0SUB> well, he/she doesn't even have a email listed
<raphink-pbook> ah doesn't help ;)
<raphink-pbook> you can ask elmo but I doubt you get anything
<G0SUB> totally inactive as in _totally_ inactive :)
<G0SUB> hmm
<ajmitch> why would asking elmo help at all? 
<ajmitch> since it's just to do with launchpad username
<jpatrick> => delete
<ajmitch> there are other launchpad admins
<ajmitch> elmo just handles more of the distro stuff
<tseng> #launchpad
<G0SUB> hmm ...
<tseng> is the place to be. 
<G0SUB> tseng there alreay ;)
<G0SUB> ajmitch are the aliases created manually? 
<ajmitch> no idea, I'm not an admin
<G0SUB> ok
* ajmitch is just a developer
* jpatrick too
<G0SUB> bah!  the ID has alreay been created
<G0SUB> g0sub@ubuntu.com
<raphink-pbook> :)
<G0SUB> aargh! 
<raphink-pbook> bah
<jpatrick> hey LaserJock
<G0SUB> LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi jpatrick and G0SUB
<Toadstool> wierd... it looks like my wide-dhcpv6 package is still in NEW (it's listed in my launchpad packages list) but wide-dhcpv6-server and -client show up when apt-cache searching for them although they're not installable...
<jpatrick> Toadstool: I know it's odd
<LaserJock> G0SUB: I cleaned up the lists last night
<Gloubiboulga> Toadstool, I can't find the packages with apt-cache
<LaserJock> G0SUB: did you add anything to the MiscPackages wiki ? 
<G0SUB> LaserJock no
<LaserJock> G0SUB: ok, I think I'm pretty happy with the current list for now
* G0SUB too
<G0SUB> LaserJock what about the electronics stuff? 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: I added it
<G0SUB> LaserJock to that other page?  I don't see it in the wiki
<LaserJock> G0SUB: just a sec
<LaserJock> G0SUB: ok, I gotta run some errands but check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science .  I replaced TeX with Electronics and added Misc
<G0SUB> LaserJock ok
<LaserJock> G0SUB: so far Misc is just the tex packages but I'll go through and find the source packages for what is on MiscPackages and add them to my list
<G0SUB> ok
<LaserJock> I'll be back in a bit
<Tm_T> hummmm
<Tm_T> ok, see you guys more on monday, now sleep I hope ->
<jpatrick> night
<Mongoose> I got the emacs gtk+2 snapshot from debian packaged for ubuntu amd64 no conflicts, all pretty
<Mongoose> is there some way to share this joy with others?   =)
<Mongoose> I was wondering if there is some mousey repo outside of universe
<Mongoose> also why is there not an im-ja in amd64? 
<dolson> hey, I'm looking at the list of packages that have unmet deps, and one of them I can see for sure can easily be solved by simply rebuilding the package, no changes needed.. how does that get fixed?  is there anything I can do, put a request in somewhere, or what? 
* Mongoose paws at dolson
<Mongoose> we meet again
<LaserJock> hi Mongoose and dolson
<Mongoose> dolson: yeah, all they need to do is edit the control file for emacs snapshot
<Mongoose> hey
<Mongoose> dolson: you know if libinklevel is still under development
<Mongoose> I just made a makefile and stuff for it and got it working on amd64
<LaserJock> Mongoose: so the present snapshot packages don't work on amd64? 
<Mongoose> LaserJock: not the march ones
<Mongoose> easy fix however just edit some values in the control file
<LaserJock> Mongoose: is there a bug report? 
<Mongoose> no I'm new to ubuntu -- should I file one for a package you don't have yet? 
<jpatrick> impossible I think
<LaserJock> we don't have it? 
<Mongoose> yeah
<jpatrick> package must be there first
<Mongoose> emacs gtk2 snapshot isn't in ubuntu iirc
<Mongoose> it's on the wish list page
<LaserJock> emacs-snapshot isn't it? 
<Mongoose> I'm on amd64 if that matters
<Mongoose> I don't recall it being in i386 either
<Mongoose> I have a chroot for i386
<Mongoose> I had to make an im-ja for japanese input for amd64 as well
<tseng> OUTPUTFILE="$(eval echo "$OUTPUTFORMAT")"
<tseng> is this valid bash?  doesnt look it to me
<LaserJock> Mongoose: ok, but this is different than emacs-snapshot? 
<tseng> abcde line 1152
<Mongoose> LaserJock: I'm from debian, so what's different about emacs-snapshot on debian? 
<azeem> Ubuntu doesn't have emacs-snapshot it seems
<Mongoose> tseng: that looks dangerous for shell expansion
<tseng> Mongoose: yeah, it fails, naturally
<Mongoose> I may host some im-ja amd64 ubuntu debs on my website soon
<Mongoose> tseng: use ``
<tseng> its not my code
<Mongoose> tseng: however there are better ways to capture it
<Mongoose> ok  =)
<tseng> i was assuming the author knows more bash than either of us
<tseng> its abcde
<Mithrandir> tseng: it's legal bash
<Mongoose> I'm not uberbash god but I've used it for almost 2 decades
<dolson> hey Mongoose
<Mongoose> dolson: how's it going? 
<dolson> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: the packages in Ubuntu come from Debian
<dolson> Mongoose: not bad.. so you use Ubuntu now? 
<Mongoose> LaserJock: ok
<Mongoose> dolson: yes, got a new AMD64 x2 rig -- working on nwn2 now
<dolson> Mongoose: wha?? 
<Mongoose> dolson: I can afford to make exotic packages now  ;)
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: so is your package different than what we've already got>
<Mongoose> LaserJock: I didn't see emacs-snapshot in the repo -- let me check
<Mongoose> yeah
<Mongoose> my package is for nox, x, and gtk2
* ilmari gently points at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/munin/+bug/33847
<Mongoose> I see you have one now nice
<Ubugtu> malone bug 33847 in munin munin-node "Munin node fails to start after reboot" [Major,In progress] 
<LaserJock_> so is the emacs-snapshot
<Mongoose> the package name is different than debians
<ilmari> would suck to release dapper with that one unfixed
<dolson> Mongoose: so.. nwn2 = bioware's game?  or is this some other "nwn" ? 
<Mongoose> apt-cache show emacs-snapshot-gtk
<Mongoose> dolson: no obsidian
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: which is gtk2
<Mongoose> thanks
<Mongoose> LaserJock: yes it seems libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0)
<Mongoose> LaserJock: is im-ja named something else too? 
<dolson> Mongoose: oh, no more bioware.. so you're porting it to Linux?  or do you work for Obsidian now, and are developing it for Windows/Mac? 
<Mongoose> 'gnome japanese input mode'
<Mithrandir> hi ilmari
<ilmari> Mithrandir: hiya :)
<Mongoose> dolson: windows only
<azeem> Mongoose: is im-ja in Debian? 
<Mongoose> dolson: I would have liked to do a linux port, but I'll barely have time to do all the engine stuff for windows
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: we don't rename packages usually.  It should be the same in Ubuntu as it is in Debian
<Mongoose> azeem: yes
<azeem> Mongoose: what's the package name? 
<dolson> Mongoose: :( oh well, sorry to say I won't be buying.  but you won't miss my $50 anyhow
<Mongoose> im-ja-all
<Mongoose> dolson: well, it should work in wine
<azeem> Mongoose: I can't find that
<dolson> Mongoose: how quickly you forget my disdain for such a thing
<Mongoose> dolson: sorry  =(
<Mongoose> azeem: well, it works right out of debian source no changes
<Mongoose> http://im-ja.sourceforge.net/
<azeem> Mongoose: there's no im-ja-all package in Debian, I am saying
<Mongoose> what? 
<Mongoose> that's odd
<Mongoose> oh wait it might be my local
<Mongoose> I'll have to check and see if it's in sid
<azeem> packages.debian.org/im-ja-all quite clearly states it is not, unless I typo'd the URL
<Mongoose> azeem: how do I vote to have it included in ubuntu? 
<azeem> do you have a package ready? 
<Mongoose> I'm so used to setting up japanese I often forget the distro lacks a lot of things
<Mongoose> yes, I have the one I made
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: you can package it and upload it to the REVU server
<Mongoose> if you wish to test it
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: and then it can be reviewed by MOTUs
<Mongoose> oh ok
<Mongoose> thanks
<LaserJock_> Mongoose: or you can get it into Debian and we will get it later
<Mongoose> true  =)
<LaserJock_> but REVU is good for getting feedback
<Mongoose> ok
<dolson> Mongoose: don't use checkinstall
<Mongoose> hhmm? 
<LaserJock_> nice, I finally quit :-)
<Mongoose> dolson: oh, I'm going to make new freyja packages soon
<dolson> Mongoose: that's your 3d modeller, right? 
<Mongoose> yeah
<Mongoose> it's still developed on weekends like this
* dolson sux at 3d
<Mongoose> it's easy
<dolson> yeah, for a developer or someone with artistic talent, perhaps
<Mongoose> well, I'll have to backburner this for a bit I have to do clothes  =)
<Mongoose> laters
<dolson> I mean, if you're working on a 3d engine, such as NWN2, then you should find freyja easy
<Mongoose> dolson: nice seeing you again
<dolson> Mongoose: yeah, same man. :) 
<Mongoose> dolson: I'm doing mostly engine animation system
<Mongoose> not D3D  =)
* Mongoose is away: time to wash the clothing
<dolson> so, I didn't get any answer to my question
<dolson> here it is again: I'm looking at the list of packages that have unmet deps, and one of them I can see for sure can easily be solved by simply rebuilding the package, no changes needed.. how does that get fixed?  is there anything I can do, put a request in somewhere, or what? 
<LaserJock> dolson: I'm honestly not sure how that would work with soyuz
<LaserJock> dolson: what package is it? 
<dolson> LaserJock: well, it appears there's already been a bug opened on this particular one, but I'm not finished going through the list, so I just wanted to know for future packages.. this one is libbio2jack0.  the bug # is 33659
<LaserJock> dolson: ok, maybe I'll ask #launchpad.  I might be able to poke something and get it to rebuild
<dolson> there's another package, supercollider, same exact thing, but Gloubilobuga (or however he spells it, lol) has already opened a bug for that too.  he puts changes in the changelog for these, in a diff.  I guess that's the way it is supposed to be done? 
<minghua> LaserJock, dolson: my understanding is that you can just upload a -Xbuild1 package without changes (just a new changelog entry) to fix the dependency problem
<Spec> You know, on the wiki ServerCandy, it doesn't mention backup software anywhere at all....
<LaserJock> dolson: I don't think we need to do that just yet.  We don't need changes the package
<minghua> LaserJock, dolson: better check with othe MOTU too
<Spec> Is there a gui backup 'solution' for dapper? 
<minghua> LaserJock: also I got mail from plotdrop upstream :-)
<Spec> and shouldn't backup software be included and promoted?  it's pretty damn important, i'd say
<dolson> minghua: that's what G-man did in his diff, yeah, but I had never seen it before :)
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, that is how it was done before soyuz, but I thought we were going to be able to poke a build from LP
<minghua> LaserJock: oh okay, then go poke :-D
<bpuccio> where's the file that contains the installed status of a system's packages?  I thought it was in /etc/apt/ but I can't find it (I cannot do a dpkg =l | grep ii)
<LaserJock> dpkg -l you mean? 
<Spec> bpuccio: /var/cache/apt/
<Spec> not saying you can read it though
<bpuccio> Spec:  oh, hmmm, yeah, can't read those .bin files
<minghua> bpuccio: why can't you do "dpkg -l | grep ^ii"? 
<JohnnyMast> whats the mplayer pkg name ? 
<minghua> bpuccio: do you mean there are some broken packages on your system? 
<Spec> you can do: strings pkgcache.bin, but it's weird
<bpuccio> minghua:  becuase I didn't boot this system, I just tossed the drive in another machine to see its contents and it would be useful to get a list of all the installed packages
<minghua> Hmm. 
<LaserJock> Spec: there is a Home User Backup in the works (the spec should be on the wiki).  there are some other backup packages in the repos but I can't remeber their names offhand
<Spec> bpuccio: if you're using linux, mount -t proc proc /path/to/mounted/harddrives/proc
<Spec> bpuccio: and then chroot /path/to/mounted/harddrives/root
<Spec> and then you can do dpkg -l
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: mplayer? 
<bpuccio> thanks, Spec, that's a neat trick! 
<JohnnyMast> uhu
<bpuccio> I'll give it a shot
<JohnnyMast> mplayer isnt found
<Spec> LaserJock: I wrote some backup wiki information
<Spec> LaserJock: but that's very not GUIish, and I think backup should've been considered as a very good goal for system administration
<Spec> I was just reading about how Dapper is a 5+ year supported OS
<Spec> and yet I didn't read anything about any plans to implement backup software as default, easy, etc etc
<JohnnyMast> Package mplayer is not available, but is referred to by another package. 
<JohnnyMast> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<JohnnyMast> is only available from another source
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: got all the repos? 
<minghua> bpuccio: you may want to look at /var/lib/dpkg/status, but chroot is a good idea indeed
<LaserJock> Spec: it was going to implemented in Dapper but I'm not sure if it made it
<JohnnyMast> yeah since i was developing motu doing stuff for ubuntu
<Spec> i was looking at    https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specs
<Spec> I don't see any deferred status or anything
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: it is in multiverse
<JohnnyMast> let me start thw gui
<JohnnyMast> i will figure it out
<Spec> it's depressing, people bitch about their systems being broken, first thing someone answers "do you have a backup?",  and yet, there's no way to easily go to a menu item and back up your computer to say, cds, or dvds, or nfs, or tape,...
<minghua> Spec, LaserJock: my understanding from the last dapper status meeting is that HomeUserBackup spec is deferred, but it has a good chance to make into universe for dapper
<LaserJock> Spec: you can check the status at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-March/000093.html
<JohnnyMast> mplayer should bring only 2 packages
<JohnnyMast> binary and skins
<Spec> how do i get to that spec, minghua? 
<JohnnyMast> lol mplayer 0 results
<LaserJock> Spec: wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
<Spec> ah, spec on teh wiki
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=mplayer&searchon=sourcenames&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
<Spec> excellent
<Spec> i'll read all of that and come here and complain later then :)
<Spec> i have to go clean house for company, thanks for information
<bpuccio> minghua:  ahh, that's the file, thanks very much! 
<JohnnyMast> yeah could try that
<JohnnyMast> ty LaserJock old buddy
<minghua> bpuccio: you ar welcome
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: np.  packages.ubuntu.com is a useful resource
<JohnnyMast> i know
<G0SUB> LaserJock have you seen this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-March/000734.html ? 
<tseng> everyone has, by now
<G0SUB> hmm
<minghua> G0SUB: you should subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce list by the way
<minghua> then you won't miss messages like this any more ;-)
<G0SUB> minghua ;)
<LaserJock> or the ubuntu forums, or /. probably ;-)
<LaserJock> or is that \. ? 
<G0SUB>  /.
<minghua> I actually suspect G0SUB got this from /.
<G0SUB> minghua no
<minghua> oh okay
<G0SUB> minghua i got it from digg
<G0SUB> ;)
<G0SUB> minghua LaserJock what do you think about that? 
<G0SUB> tseng you too
<LaserJock> about what?  the push back? 
<G0SUB> yes, the 6 weeks pushback
<LaserJock> I don't mind it but I think maybe it would be better if it was shorter.  I also wonder what happens to Dapper+1
<tseng> i think i dont care
<G0SUB> what happens to dapper+1, as in ? 
<tseng> i dont agree with most of mark's high profile 'proposals', but this isnt one i am going to make a fuss over
<minghua> I would rather not see it happen.   But I see the reason to delay and can accept it
<LaserJock> G0SUB: as in, will Dapper+1 be pushed as well so that we have 6 months or will we have less time? 
<G0SUB> point #3 is a valid point ... since dapper is going to be an enterprise version, we need better testing for l10n & IMs etc. 
<minghua> LaserJock: I think I heard on #ubuntu-devel yesterday, that if the pushback does happen, the developement period for dapper+1, +2, and +3 are all going to be shortened by 2 weeks
<minghua> LaserJock: nothing official, of course
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<G0SUB> hmm
<LaserJock> dang it, scilab is a mess and the Debian Maintainer looks to be possibly MIA (2 RC bugs about 6 months old)
<G0SUB> LaserJock the fonts issue? 
<LaserJock> well, it won't even start now
<G0SUB> damn
<LaserJock> hmm, and debian removed it from testing
<G0SUB> LaserJock ask somebody to do an NMU
<LaserJock> but the current Debian version is from 2004 (3.0) and they released 4.0 on Feb 15th
<G0SUB> bah
<LaserJock> I wish I had found out sooner, I might have tried to package 4.0 for Dapper.  I don't know if I can get a UVF exception now. 
<G0SUB> later guys ...
<LaserJock> cya G0SUB
<G0SUB> LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> nabend netzmeister
<netzmeister> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> netzmeister: Wie geht es dir? 
<LaserJock> wb raphink-pbook
<raphink-pbook> thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> netzmeister: I didn't even have to look it up this time.  I must be learning ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra_: ping? 
<ogra_> LaserJock, pong
<LaserJock> ogra_: I was looking for science related packages and I saw the education-* from DebianEdu.  Do you use those in Edubuntu? 
<ogra_> currently we only use metapackages like ubuntu and kubuntu ...
<ogra_> i'd like to see a edubuntu-science-unoverse package at some point though
<ogra_> *universe
<LaserJock> ogra_: so you don't group packages together buy subject?  how do you pick what packages get in? 
<LaserJock> I think that might be nice.  I'd been interested in that if you need help, etc. 
<ogra_> we had a edubuntu summit where we let the teachers and school admins decide what should go in ...
<LaserJock> ah, makes sense
<ogra_> i just moved to main what was possible from that list
<ogra_> but i want to revisit the app selection fro dapper+1 (unless we have only a 4 month release cycle)
<LaserJock> hmm, some universe metapackages or something would be nice.  There has been some discussion in the past about making some science field metapackages ( i.e. ubuntu-chemistry, ubuntu-physics, etc.) 
<ogra_> yeah, something along these lines was planned by the edubuntu people
<ogra_> but that was a while ago and the people didnt do much work yet ... (i'm simply missing people with packaging skills in edubuntu, even if everybody is highly motivated and great ideas come up )
<minghua> any MOTU have time to upload a fake sync for me? 
<LaserJock> ogra_: are there any science related apps that need to be packaged for edubuntu? 
<minghua> my request is at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-March/000564.html
<ogra_> LaserJock, i didnt look at apps in this release cycle (apart from gobby which hilariously failed) i bet you know better than me whats the current status of science apps
<ogra_> my main part in this release was ltsp ...
#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-17
<LaserJock> ogra_: I'm trying to get a better handle on science apps.  I'd like to keep in touch with Edubuntu for Dapper+1.  If we can do some packaging that is helpful for you or do some meta-packages let me know.  I'll try to follow Edubuntu a little better so I have an idea of what is going on. 
<dolson> I have a question.. who is it that gets to vote on Dapper's 6-week delay, exactly?  is it only the TB?  or is it all of Membership?  or core-devs or something else? 
<ogra_> yeah, tels talk about the app selection in preparation of dapper+1, i can need some input of people knowing about all the apps
<ogra_> s/tels/lets
<LaserJock> dolson: I think it will be a "town hall" type meeting but the ultimate decision will be for the TB I think
<LaserJock> ogra_: sounds good :-)
<ogra_> yeah :)
<dolson> I get the general feeling from people in here that they don't want the delay, but a lot (~90%) of end users want it.. should be interesting how it turns out
<ogra_> i dont want to loose our reputation ... we always released on the point.  and i dont want a 4 month release cycle for dapper+1
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<dolson> ogra_: I hope you're on the TB :) (I'm ignorant)
<Mithrandir> ogra_: it won't be a 4-month cycle for dapper+1, we'd have two weeks less for dapper +1, +2 and +3
<LaserJock> dolson: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<dolson> LaserJock: it should have IRC nicks in parentheses :)
<ogra_> dolson, i'm not :)
<marcin`> regclean
<ogra_> Mithrandir, ah, makes sense
<dolson> in the interest of bugfixes/stability, would it not make sense to release Ubuntu with each .1 release of GNOME? 
<LaserJock> dolson: I suppose.  mdz, Keybuck, sabdfl, and mjg 59 I think
<minghua> dolson: but I think ubuntu has been doing that since the very beginning?   (the gnome .1 releases)
<dolson> minghua: .2 then :)
<minghua> hmm, shouldn't sabdfl not allowed for voting on this since it's his proposal :-P
<dolson> releases in May/November would give time for additional GNOME bugfixes at the very least.. but meh, I don't know.  I don't want any delay, I just see it happening consistantly if it happens once
<sladen> ogra_: dapper+1 will be about getting bling in, hard and fast.   Should be perfect for a 4.5 month realease cycle
<ogra_> sladen, i have a ton of postponed features pending  ... i dont want them to be unstable but blingy :)
<sladen> hopefully alot of the unstability may disappear with a longer period spent cleaning up the bugs
<ogra_> not for the new stuff :)
<sladen> I'm looking at the desktop at the moment and I'm a bit disappointed with it (but that could be the latest reaction to the ubuntulooks that landed)
<ogra_> (which wasnt in dapper)
<ogra_> i'm pondering to keep the brown for edubuntu ...
<ogra_> (gtk and metacity)
<ogra_> your screenshot was very convincing, dont throw that gtkrc away :)
<sladen> I have a hand-fixed diff so that I could visual the changes they made
<sladen> I was thinking of trying to get an HumanClassic into main
<sladen> with the argument and people such as schools/corporates may want to keep a consistent style if they've taught it
<ogra_> yeah ...
<sladen> http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/gtkrc_ubuntulooks-0.9.2-vs-clearnlooks-handhacked.diff  it's not much to change it back
<sladen> I'm happy with Orange, just not IN YOUR FACE foreground orange
<Mithrandir> sladen: it's less orange now, isn't it? 
<ogra_> edubuntu already has organe wallpapers ... and yellow icons
<minghua> sladen: I would be quite happy to see HumanClassic in main
<marcin`> hi MOTU's
<ogra_> *orange
<marcin`> I think that these orange icons are pretty nice
<marcin`> but metacity theme is really too bright
<sladen> Mithrandir: I just install 0.9.2-1 but I can't notice a difference.   I could probably take screenshots and compare them
<marcin`> and scrollbar decoration is pretty weird too
<sladen> marcin`: progressbar or scrollbar? 
<marcin`> sladen: scrollbar
<minghua> sladen: I have problem with scroll bars too
<minghua> I even have a bug for it!   bug #34415
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34415 in ubuntulooks gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks "gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks: wish to have some delay for the scroll bar highlighting" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34415
<minghua> :-)
<sladen> Mithrandir: urm, dude, diffing 'gtkrc' in 0,9.2 and 0.9.2-1 says they're identical! 
<Mithrandir> sladen: seb said it was fixed. 
<ogra_> the changelog talks about color changes as well iirc
<ogra_>  ubuntulooks (0.9.5-1) dapper; urgency=low
<ogra_>  . 
<ogra_>    * New upstream version:
<ogra_>      - Changed the background selection color
<ogra_>      - Changed the metacity theme color
<ogra_>      - Disabled scrollbars look disabled
<ogra_>      - Fixed progressbar color in menus
<ogra_> yep
* sladen apt-get updates
<ogra_> oh, youre diffing 0.9.2 and 0.9.2-1
<sladen> this is where I need my delta sync
<sladen> so, they've reduced the saturation from 100% to 81%...
<sladen> oops.   100% to 81%
<sladen> ~10%
<Mez> evening sladen
<spacey> i like the orange
<ogra_> you are DUTCH
<spacey> :D
<dolson> I like the orange too :)
<ajmitch> hi
<ogra_> that doesnt count as objective opinion
<Mez> me tries the orange
<spacey> i hope they don't remove too much orange
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> where is the orange meant to be ? 
<Mez> I'm not getting any
<ogra_> everywhere wher it was brown before
<spacey> in the menu's and most of the gui interface
<Mez> ogra: progress bars? 
<ogra_> yep
<Mez> ah
<Mez> they're showing blue in KDE :D
<spacey> only thing which might need improvement is the top bar of the windows
<Mez> well - for me ;)
<spacey> its a bit too plastic
* Mez wonder if it's worth doing an apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<spacey> orange++
<ogra_> spacey, you should see the new edubuntu wallpapers (sadly still confident until there was a basic selection) we'll have a lot new edubuntu users in .nl ;)
<Hobbsee|away> Mez: dont let yourself be corrupted :P
* Hobbsee wants to see what it looks like, though
<Mez> Hobbsee, lol - same here
* Mez goes and looks at the screen shots
<Hobbsee> link please? 
<Hobbsee> if you have one handy? 
<ajmitch> ah, hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> what do you mean, corrupted?  he's corrupted enough with his kde deviances
<ogra_> yeah
<Hobbsee> hehe - installing gnome is more corrupting though, surely!   :P
<spacey> ogra_: :D
<sladen> evening mez.   I nearly went through birmingham, in fact I might go through there today
<minghua> LaserJock: so it seems scilab is essentially unusably in ubuntu? 
<Mez> sladen, well - i'll be around - feel free to poke me to say hi
<LaserJock> minghua: I couldn't get it to work, and in unstable it is uninstabllable
<Mez> or are you going to meeting there? 
<Mez> (woodbrooke)
<minghua> LaserJock: but you also said there is new upstream this February, is that what unstable has? 
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> minghua: Debian has 2 RC bug that are ~ 6 months old
<LaserJock> minghua: scilab was taken out of testing :(
<LaserJock> minghua: the maintainer asked for an adoption so I emailed the person that responded to see where they are
<_jaldhar> minghua: you said there was a fedora skim package.   Do you know where?  It does not seem to be in the core 4 repository
<minghua> _jaldhar: probably not a package.   the fedora scim maintainer told me skim is not in fedora core
<minghua> jaldhar: it may well be a private package he built himself (skim ships a .spec.in file, if I remember correctly)
<jaldhar> minghua: oh ok
<minghua> LaserJock: I see.   It's quite a shame that we have a package not working since breezy (with a bug with 3-digit number, no less) :-(
<minghua> LaserJock: but on the other hand it's non-free, which makes me reluctant to work on it
* minghua go reads scilab's license
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, well I don't think it was so bad a while ago.  I installed it ~ Dec. and it worked but it was buggy
<minghua> Hmm, scilab's license is really quite hostile among the ones for non-libre but costless softwares
* minghua hates the many meanings of word "free"
<LaserJock> minghua: in what ways?  I didn't look at it in detail. 
<minghua> LaserJock: do not allow using a modified version for any commercial use, even in-house
<minghua> I didn't read the license either, just the FAQ
<sladen> Mez: probably unlikely.   I might go to Derby on my way, but I can't see myself waking up in time :)
<sladen> Mez: the trains at el-crapo on Sunday mornings
<sladen> Mez: what's the best way to ping you? 
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I would really like to work on getting upstreams to have a better license.  The whole "free for academic or non-commercial use" is really prevalent in the sciences. 
<minghua> LaserJock: there is probably not much we can do about that
<minghua> LaserJock: what I really don't like is the forbidden in-house commercial use part
<LaserJock> minghua: debian-science made up a form letter to send to software authors.  I'm not sure if something like that would help
<minghua> so if I am in a company which doesn't make software at all, if I use scilab, I can't fix the bugs myself and has to wait for upstream? 
<minghua> that's something I probably can't bear with
<minghua> LaserJock: well, considering there is a company behind, I seriously doubt a letter will make any difference
<LaserJock> minghua: it's hard to try to complete with the big Windows proprietary software when the linux software equivalents have licenses that prevent people putting them in distros
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I doubt in this case anything can be done (other than not use their software) but smaller projects perhaps
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, I generally like the idea of sending upstream requests to change licensing
<minghua> LaserJock: just pessimistic on the scilab case
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I looked at the new version (4.0) to see if they had changed it by chance.  No such luck :(
<minghua> heh
<minghua> one man can dream, can't he? ;-) 
<LaserJock> sure, he just might get disapointed a lot
<minghua> LaserJock: okay, I've now read the license.   It seems porting patches and bug fixes are not counted as "modified version", so it's much better than I thought
<minghua> I was actually worrying if ubuntu is violating scilab's lincense :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, that is kinda weird though
<minghua> translation, on the other hand, counts as "modified version"
<minghua> LaserJock: weird indeed
<LaserJock> what?  then that could potentially be a problem
<minghua> I probably won't touch scilab's code without a lawyer if I am in industry
<LaserJock> >:(
<LaserJock> makes me not feel very motivated to muck around trying to fix it either
<bddebian> Hey folks
<dolson> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello dolson
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<ajmitch> good to see you back here ;)
<LaserJock> hi bddebian! 
<bddebian> Heh, Hi ajmitch, LaserJock
<ajmitch> bddebian: you've got a lot of bugfixing to catch up on, get working
<bddebian> haha
<bddebian> You know I can't fix anything :-)
* ajmitch calls that BS
<bddebian> I seem unable to "fix" qt-x11-free on GNU/Hurd :-)
<ajmitch> noone can fix a broken system like that ;)
<bddebian> Which, qt or Hurd? :-) 
<ajmitch> both
<bddebian> Hey, who's the xfce guy, Riddell? 
<ajmitch> no, crimsun & janimo
<bddebian> Oh yeah, crims
<bddebian> un
<ajmitch> especially janimo at the moment, it seems
<ajmitch> riddell is the kubuntu guy
<bddebian> Ah right, sorry
<bddebian> Well damn, where are crimsun and janimo then? :-) 
<ajmitch> not here, obviously
<bddebian> Obviously
<bddebian> So, what have I missed? ;-) 
<ajmitch> a lot
<bddebian> You mean like a big argument over some stupid theme? :-) 
<ajmitch> that's minor
* ajmitch waits for bddebian to start bugfixing
<bddebian> ajmitch: I already told you I can't fix anything
<ajmitch> and I'm telling you to stop lying & start fixing
<bddebian> The last thing I did was "fix" a bug that wasn't necessar and screwed up versioning at the same time :-(
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> so don't do that next time
<ajmitch> everyone makes mistakes
<bddebian> Except you :-)
<ajmitch> BS
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch and bddebian
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you've done a few uploads lately :)
<ajmitch> got through the sync list? 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, my sync list is cleared now :)
<bddebian> There's still a synch list? :-) 
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> bddebian: launchpad is broken for syncs, we're having to do them manually
<sistpoty> bddebian: yes... unfortunately autosync is still not working/not being done :(
<bddebian> Yikes
<bddebian> What happened
<ajmitch> the switch to soyuz
<StevenK> Launchpad is also broken for removals. 
<bddebian> Ahh
<StevenK> The archive is in Hotel California mode. 
<LaserJock> StevenK: good to know.  I wanted to get a package removed
<ajmitch> StevenK: I think that may have been fixed
<LaserJock> you guys know if it is possible to trigger a rebuild yet from LP? 
<sistpoty> none that I know of
<minghua> sistpoty: care to help clearing my sync list? ;- 
<minghua> sistpoty: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-March/000564.html
<minghua> sistpoty: can you help to upload a fake sync? 
<sistpoty> minghua: sure
<minghua> sistpoty: the sources are here: ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/scim-tables/
<minghua> sistpoty: (or change the mirror name if you are not in US)
<sistpoty> minghua: I'll just apt-get source them from my unstable ;)
<minghua> sistpoty: thanks a lot
<sistpoty> np
<minghua> yeah, apt-get source is always good :-)
<ajmitch> excellent, tried booting my main dapper box again & it died about 2 seconds into bootup
<bddebian> sweet
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> that's why the box has been shutdown for 3 weeks while I was in .au
<Lathiat> ajmitch: back in .nz? 
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> cool
* ajmitch can order that amd64 now
<ajmitch> though I won't go for the ricer SLI motherboard like you did ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Get me one too ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> Lathiat: most of the rest will be the same, except 4GB RAM
<ajmitch> might as well give it enough to compile with
<Lathiat> mm nifty
<Lathiat> main reason i got the SLI mobo
<Lathiat> was becuase it has 8 sata ports
<Lathiat> i then decide, wtf, may as well get a second video card
<Lathiat> ;p
<Lathiat> (my case takes 12 drives)
<Lathiat> which i plan on filling :)
<Lathiat> ... when im less broke
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?itemID=339635
<bddebian> ajmitch: Great, then you can get started on that amd64 GNU/Hurd port.. ;-P
* ajmitch is going for the cheaper option
<ajmitch> bddebian: no thanks
<Lathiat> cool
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I don't think I'll bother with 8 SATA ports at the moment
<ajmitch> just putting 2x250GB drives in
<Lathiat> well you wont really need them then :)
<ajmitch> might stock up a couple more later
<Lathiat> and with my sound and hdtv card
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> i coulndt really stockpile with pci cards
<Lathiat> just 1 later, hence
<ajmitch> I'll use software RAID
<Lathiat> that said, i'm going to have to ditch my second video card to do that
<Lathiat> or get a pci-e sata controller (which i coudl do)
<ajmitch> how well is all the onboard stuff supported? 
<Lathiat> as the 3rd pci card sits far too close to the second video card for my liking
<Lathiat> ajmitch: it all works, but the realtek audio is just dodge, including in windows
<ajmitch> using the ALSA driver, or realtek crap? 
<Lathiat> some alsa driver
<Lathiat> it worked
<ajmitch> ok
<Lathiat> then it stopped detecting on the pci bus
<Lathiat> and windows bluescreened with it all the time
<ajmitch> I've got hda_intel in this laptop, just got the realtek codec going this week
<Lathiat> and then i found a better driver, and the sound would just stop after about 5 minutes
<ajmitch> crimsun is pushing for the updates to get into dapper's kernel
<Lathiat> ajmitch: this worked on plain.. breezy or daper, 1 of the two
<ajmitch> ok
<Lathiat> that motherboard isnt much cheaper than mine
<Lathiat> only by about 50 bucks
<Lathiat> currency aside
<Lathiat> how much si the a8n sli premium for you? 
<sistpoty> minghua: scim-tables uploaded ;)
<ajmitch> too much
<ajmitch> actually it's not much more
<ajmitch> very little difference...
<ajmitch> except out of stock at ascent
<Lathiat> if you wanted a cheaper motherboard im sure you could find a cheaper.. motherboard
<ajmitch> http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=342509
<Lathiat> wah
<Lathiat> i paid 249
<Lathiat> aud
* ajmitch ponders going for the SLI bling
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: you wont need sli blink ;p
<ajmitch> you can see why it's out of stock :)
<Lathiat> its a good board tho
<minghua> sistpoty: thanks!   I'll send a message to motu mailing list when it's built
<ajmitch> of course I won't
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it's not the same
<ajmitch> you got the SLI premium
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> thats not premium
<Lathiat> i see
<Lathiat> it looks the same in the photo
<ajmitch> http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=341441
<Lathiat> ah, it has the hardware switch
<ajmitch> way more
<Lathiat> also a fan on the chipsets
<Lathiat> rather than the heatpipey thingy i have
<ajmitch> ok
<Lathiat> $332.64
<Lathiat> hah :)
<Lathiat> i take it back
<Lathiat> the a8n-e is cheaper
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: if the prices are like that you should consider shipping them in or something ;p
<Lathiat> compare nintek.com.au, currency convert and add shipping :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> shipping is expensive
<Lathiat> mm nintek dont list intl shipping
<Lathiat> what case you after? 
<ajmitch> got a case 2nd hand
<ajmitch> lian-li
<Lathiat> ooh those are sexy
<Lathiat> which model? 
<ajmitch> PC 90, iirc
* ajmitch can't recall the exact model num
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> PC-71
<Lathiat> if its a pc90 i like those
<Lathiat> ah
<ajmitch> http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=110990
<Lathiat> ooh nie
<Lathiat> they are good too
<Lathiat> i knwo someone with one of those
<Lathiat> ouch @ the price
<Lathiat> whatd you pay for it? 
<Lathiat> also, black or silver? 
<ajmitch> black
<ajmitch> haven't paid him for it yet, got to agree on a price :)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> your system wont be far off mine at all ;p
<Lathiat> better not get a cpu faster than 4200+ or i'll cry :)
<Lathiat> you should get one of these http://www.xoxide.com/lian-li-pc-777-black.html
<ajmitch> haha nice
<Lathiat> bit nuts eh
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> i haven't riced mine up enough yet
<Lathiat> no side window and no fans with leds in them
<ajmitch> you have amd64 dapper on it? 
<Lathiat> or UV for that matter
* ajmitch has a side window
<Lathiat> nah
<ajmitch> and I'll put flight5 on
<Lathiat> ooh thats out now
<Lathiat> see
<Lathiat> im a kubuntu user
<ajmitch> shame
<Lathiat> wonder if that dailyu build went through
<Lathiat> there was a bug in user-setup that stopped the kubuntu cd from installing
<Lathiat> and they stopped dailies for flight, heh
<ajmitch> should I get the live cd & try espresso? 
<Lathiat> but should bhe good now
<Lathiat> i'd tyr it
<Lathiat> but i wouldnt run my system off it
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> it feels dirty..
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> i'll be scrubbing myself for months
<ajmitch> you prefer the classic installer? 
<Lathiat> yarp
<ajmitch> why do you think it's dirty? 
<Lathiat> because it doesnt unpack everything properly :)
<Lathiat> dirty :)
<Lathiat> its like dd or rsyncing an install onto another machine ;p
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> so bur.st's new server has 2 faulty drives it seems
<Lathiat> teach me for buying WD
<Lathiat> (out of 5)
* ajmitch starts downloading the amd64 installer
<Lathiat> problem with amd64
<Lathiat> is things like video codecs
<Lathiat> and flash
<Lathiat> java was  a problem bu they fixed that
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> but I don't care about such things
<Lathiat> i do
<Lathiat> i watch movies all the time
<Lathiat> flash less so, i also use java all the time
<Lathiat> tho thats not an issue now
<Lathiat> and the way around it is to install a chroot, and thats just but tugly
<Lathiat> when is debian/ubuntu goign to get proper biarch support
<Lathiat> aiui this can all work
<ajmitch> s/biarch/multiarch/
<Lathiat> s/whatever
<ajmitch> probably dapper+1, there was going to be a mini-sprint on it recently
<Lathiat> who need smore than 2? ; p
<ajmitch> some weird archs
* StevenK is waiting for multiarch
<minghua> I heard the biarch idea can't solve the "some arch want /lib and /lib64, while some other arch want /lib and /lib32" problem? 
<minghua> like amd64 vs. ppc
<StevenK> This will make watching movies on my amd64 much easier. 
<StevenK> Lathiat: Yes, I'm getting irritated at my i386 chroot.  It seems like such a hack. 
<ajmitch> hey StevenK
* Lathiat wonders how much a difference 64bit makes in various applications
<ajmitch> should I get 2 or 3 250GB drives for RAID? 
<Lathiat> 3 would give you raid5
<ajmitch> if I wanted it
<ajmitch> it'd be a very wasteful raid 5
<Lathiat> well what would you do with 2 drives
<Lathiat> raid0? 
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> do you care about redundancy at all? 
* Lathiat doesnt particularly
<Lathiat> all my important stuff is kept elsewhere
<Lathiat> which pretty much falls down to my gpg and ssh keys
<ajmitch> 3 drives in raid 0 would be a recipe for disaster if 1 died
<ajmitch> gpg/ssh keys are stored elsewhere for me as well
<Lathiat> as would 2 :)
<Lathiat> and apart from that i really dont have any data i'd be overly upset about if i lost
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> with software raid I could mix & match anyway
<Lathiat> yeh
<ajmitch> so I could have a 500GB raid0 across 3 drives
<ajmitch> & the rest as raid5
<Lathiat> yep
* ajmitch might get 3 then :)
<ajmitch> since I've finally got a big enough case
* Lathiat mights get 12
<Lathiat> ;p
<Lathiat> i got 2 36GB raptors for boot, in raid0 it flies
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> nice
<Lathiat> 130M/s
* ajmitch isn't quite that insane
<Lathiat> and decent seek times
<Lathiat> i should bonnie++ it
<ajmitch> 7200RPM will be enough for me, I think
<ajmitch> my wallet can't handle much more
<Lathiat> hehe
<Lathiat> so why the buy?  got money from your .au stuff and want toys? :) 
<Lathiat> 4G rams a bit nuts
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> plus my main box is dead
<ajmitch> it lasted about 2 seconds into a dapper boot earlier
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> oops
<Lathiat> whats wrong with it? 
<ajmitch> dunno
<Lathiat> finally kicked the bucket? ; p
<ajmitch> probably the bad caps
<Lathiat> oh, lovely
<ajmitch> I haven't tried ripping cards out
<ajmitch> currently just got my laptop to use
<Lathiat> fun :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it's not too slow, so I don't mind
<Lathiat> from a laptop
<Lathiat> not only is this machien so fast
<Lathiat> the time to unrar or start  a pbuilder.. fwoah :)
<Lathiat> specially with a raid0 accross raptors ;p
<ajmitch> yeah..
<ajmitch> raid0 across 3 drives ought to be adequate
* ajmitch has to figure out how to set it all up though
<Lathiat> set what up? 
<bddebian> Send it to me and I'll take care of that for ya ;-P
<ajmitch> the RAID/LVM mix
<Lathiat> haha bddebian
<ajmitch> how much to allocate for each
<Mez> wtf? 
<Mez> why was I banned? 
<ajmitch> banned from where? 
<Mez> here
<ajmitch> you weren't, you're being paranoid
<Mez> Cannot join #ubuntu-motu (You are banned). 
<Lathiat> .. no u werent? 
<Lathiat> when? 
<Mez> just now
<Lathiat> i see  your cloaked now
<ajmitch> noone banned you or did anything
<ajmitch> check the ban list
<Lathiat> maybe theres a ban on your isp
<Lathiat> for some luser ;p
<ajmitch> probably
* ajmitch sees hostinggeek is still on there ;)
<Mez> yeah
<Lathiat> ;p
<Mez> there is a ban on my ISP
<Mez> o_O
<ajmitch> oh well
<Mez> that's annoying
<ajmitch> you'll live
<Mez> I'm glad I have the host
<Mez> wonder who banned me
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I doubt it was against you
<bddebian> They must have seen you over in #d-d.. ;-P
<Lathiat> i can tell its not
<Lathiat> theres one on *!* i=duud@*.... as well
<Lathiat> so someone tried something more specific and they kept coming back i guess
<ajmitch> bddebian: they haven't banned you from there yet
<bddebian> ajmitch: Surprisingly no :-)
<Lathiat> ..
<Lathiat> shouldnt we be bannign you from here? :) 
<Lathiat> you DEBIAN USER YOU
<Lathiat> you are evil
<bddebian> Yeah probably :-)
<ajmitch> ban me as well? 
<Lathiat> may as well be a gentoo user! 
<Lathiat> that debian.. sheesh its just crap
<ajmitch> Lathiat: don't worry, he really runs the hurd
* Lathiat laughs
<bddebian> On 5 of my machines, yes
<Lathiat> ...
<Lathiat> really? 
<bddebian> Yes
* Lathiat impales himself on a pole
<minghua> we are starting banning debian users :-)
<minghua> ? 
<Lathiat> minghua: of course, they all must DIE! 
<Lathiat> i should have said that at the debian miniconf
<Lathiat> DIE DEBIAN USERS DIE DIE DIE
<Lathiat> would have been received well i suspect
<Lathiat> whats this about a new orange theme
<Lathiat> i suppose i should try flight5 w/gnome
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> you'll want to gouge your eyes out
<Lathiat> really? 
<minghua> it's not that bad...
<Lathiat> i was hoping it'd be better
<ajmitch> minghua: I wanted to :)
<Lathiat> that said, i wasn't overly .. unfond? ..  of the brown
<Lathiat> and i mean, it is token
* ajmitch didn't like the brown
<Lathiat> you see ubuntu and you know its ubuntu
<Lathiat> its th eonly color left ;p
<ajmitch> heh
* Mez likes the fact that kubuntu turns the brown blue
* ajmitch has a nice boring blue
<Lathiat> you see, thats 30% of the reason im a kubuntu user :)
<bddebian> "and don't ya make my brown eyes blue"..
<hub> hey
<Mez> hola Mr Figuiere
<LaserJock> I've kinda grown fond of the brown, but I don't really care anymore.  I haven't really seen X for a while now. 
<minghua> LaserJock: wow.   I always see X, although sometimes I just have a dozen of gnome-terminal winodws open
<LaserJock> minghua: I live in chroots and ssh to everything
<astronut> what's the status of 33395? 
<minghua> LaserJock: I see
<LaserJock> astronut: malone 33395? 
<Ubugtu> malone bug 33395 in graphmonkey "UVF Exception: 1.3 -> 1.5" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33395
<astronut> yes
<astronut> there was a green light for upload almost a week ago
<astronut> when will it happen? 
<LaserJock> astronut: when it happens, more or less.  syncs are a little problematic right now
<minghua> LaserJock: If I were you, I'll just upload fakesyncs
<astronut> ok
* astronut doesn't really know too much about ubuntu's infrastructure
<astronut> other than launchpad is non-free :-P
<LaserJock> astronut: don't worry we don't really know that much either
<astronut> LaserJock: lol
* astronut is a debian guy, just don't want ppl pissed at me cause my name is on that peice of crap
<ajmitch> don't worry, it'll get uploaded
<LaserJock> astronut: the current situation is the syncing through Launchpad isn't working.  So as an alternative we can "Fakesync" it
<astronut> what's that? 
<astronut> snycing = bugs or packages? 
<LaserJock> we would upload the sync from Debian X version as Xbuild1 thereby avoiding the normal sync process, at least that is how I understand it
* astronut doesn't really know what you mean by "sync"
<astronut> but never mind
<astronut> as long as it will be uploaded, i'm cool
<ajmitch> sync means getting the same source debian has, without modifications
<LaserJock> sync means we take the current Debian package
<LaserJock> astronut: sorry for the Ubuntuese
<astronut> np
<astronut> i figured
<astronut> but wans't sure if you meant on package or distro level
<Lathiat> oh syncing is actually broken? 
<Lathiat> i wondered what all these fakesyncs were
<astronut> fakesync = ? 
<sistpoty> Lathiat: yes, since soyuz no more syncs have been processed... did you read my mail to ubuntu-motu ml? 
<LaserJock> astronut: what we were just talking about
<astronut> oh, i see
<Lathiat> sistpoty: must have missed it
<LaserJock> astronut: normally syncs are done by the ftp master but we are trying to move to using Launchpad
<sistpoty> well, we *are* using LP right now... but syncs doesn't seem to function properly yet ;)
<LaserJock> well, yeah.  that is what I meant. 
<ajmitch> yay, the dapper delays hit slashdot
* ajmitch hates to think how many people might turn up & make their opinions loudly known
* bmonty shudders
<LaserJock> the ubuntuforums thread is up to 19 pages so far
<bmonty> how do you have time to look at the forums? :) 
<Lathiat> "April 14th"
<Lathiat> (slashdot)
<Lathiat> is that right? 
<dolson> Lathiat: lol
<bmonty> Lathiat: first post under the article corrects the date
<minghua> slashdot still hasn't correct the date yet?   shame on them
<Lathiat> heh
<ajmitch> minghua: it's slashdot, what do you expect?  editorial accuracy? 
<astronut> do they ever? 
<ajmitch> rarely
<LaserJock> bmonty: I wanted to see what they said about the release push.  Other then that, I wouldn't have  ;-)
<minghua> well, I've been seeing them correct factual errors once in a while
<bmonty> they should correct the date....eventually
<minghua> but I suppose ajmitch is generally right
<bmonty> we could all send them an email to that effect
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> hey bddebian, whats up! 
<bddebian> Not much man.   You? 
<bmonty> currently sitting in a hotel room in California, other than mostly work
<bmonty> and learning how to be a dad :)
<astronut> bmonty: spoil your kids! 
* astronut is a kid
<bmonty> astronut: don't worry he is
<bddebian> bmonty: Awesome.   Where in Cali? 
<bmonty> bddebian: San Jose
<bddebian> Ah
<bmonty> thankfully I'm going home tomorrow morning
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks, good to "see" you all again
<bmonty> bye bddebian....stop by a little more often! 
<sistpoty> cya bddebian
<bddebian> Aye, I will :-)
<LaserJock> cool, made my first upload
<bmonty> congrats :)
<minghua> yeah, congrats :-)
<LaserJock> well, it was a sponsor for a rebuild but at least I know my dput works ;-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: and it doesn't even have your name on it
<LaserJock> nope, that way they can't trace it back to me if it doesn't work ;-)
<bmonty> minghua: BTW, the fakesync for m17n-db is in the archive now
<bmonty> LaserJock: ummm..yes they can
<bmonty> your key signed the upload
<minghua> bmonty: yeah, saw that in dapper-changes
<minghua> bmonty: unfortunatly I know as much Tamil as you do, so can't properly test ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah, I know
<bmonty> minghua: ok, so what other work needs to be done with those packages? 
<LaserJock> minghua: btw, just got an email from the guy taking over scilab.  He says he will be uploading 4.0 soon
<minghua> bmonty: ping the bug report to confirm it still works and fixes the problem, I suppose, but I'll do that
* sistpoty is off to bed now... gn8 everyone
<minghua> good night sistpoty
<bmonty> night sistpoty
<bmonty> minghua: he should have gotten a ping when I closed the bug
<LaserJock> doh, everybody leaves too suddenly.  I never get to say goodby :(
<bmonty> minghua: let me know if I can help out with those packages....I can't do a whole lot of testing, but I'll work the other issues
<minghua> LaserJock: you say hello when they join, so that compensates :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, ok.  maybe you have a point
<minghua> bmonty: that's great.   I really appreciate your help on scim stuff
<bmonty> LaserJock: you just aren't a KeyboardJock yet :)
<LaserJock> I guess
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get to bed.  I think I'll try to start doing syncs tomorrow.  I hate having to Fakesync but we should really get a chance to do any bug fixing before release
<bmonty> LaserJock: once I get off this trip, I want to finish my syncs and start cracking at unmet deps
<bmonty> good night everyone
<dolson> what the crap, I didn't put the battery state applet on my GNOME panel! 
<dolson> oh, that's the trash can...
<minghua> lol
* minghua goes check the trash can icon from human theme
<shawn_home> hmm, do we have xvidcap/gvidcap in universe/multiverse? 
<dolson> shawn_home: no
<dolson> shawn_home: not on my system anyhow... :(
<shawn_home> hmm
<shawn_home> its a messy package with ffmpeg
* minghua is not quite accustomed to the new dejavu serif oblique font
<retrix> hi, im wondering if a motu could have a look at a package (ndisgtk) thats been sitting in revu since december ... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1175
<retrix> it fixes a bug that has affected some kubuntu users
<minghua> retrix: is this bug reported in malone? 
<retrix> yes, #31904
<minghua> bug #31904
<Ubugtu> malone bug 31904 in ndisgtk "ndisgtk dependencies incomplete - fails to start when gnome is not installed" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31904
<minghua> retrix: would you please paste your patch to that bug report as well? 
<minghua> retrix: or by "updated version" you mean a new upstream version? 
<retrix> minghua, its a new upstream version (ive also put in support for i18n)
<minghua> retrix: Hmm, that's a little hard.   We are in upstream version freeze right now, please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html and follow the instructions there
<minghua> retrix: you don't need to file a new bug though, the current bug can be used for that
<retrix> ok thanks minghua
<minghua> you are welcome
<Lathiat> off to install flight5
<Lathiat> ok, yes , im sorry, the new theme sucks
<desrt> :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: got a spoon to gouge my eyes with? 
<Lathiat> the buttons being wider than higher sucks
<Lathiat> as does the new progress bar look
<Lathiat> if the orange was toned down a bit it'd probably look ok
<Lathiat> except itd probably turn rbown ;p
<Lathiat> *turn brown
<Lathiat> also the inactive button color
<Lathiat> it has an orang eborder, eww :)
<Lathiat> i cant type
<Lathiat> as usual
<Lathiat> just a quick poll
<Lathiat> does anyone use gnome-terminal in black on white
<Lathiat> also who doesnt turn the menubar off? 
<Lathiat> (not looking for a flamewar.. just curious :)
<desrt> i agree  with you on both counts
<Lathiat> well i mean
<Lathiat> i turn it to white on black
<Lathiat> adn turn the menu bar off
<Lathiat> what do you do? 
<desrt> i turn it to grey on black, menu bars off, slightly transparent
<desrt> but i make the grey a bit brighter
<Lathiat> i used to use transparency
<Lathiat> but its too slow
<Lathiat> hrm
<desrt> it's a lot better these days
<Lathiat> gray on black
<Lathiat> not so bad
<Lathiat> ARGH
<Lathiat> the irssi+screen+gnome-terminal bug
<desrt> ya
<desrt> fucking christ
<Lathiat> this is 30% more of the reason i dont use gnome
<desrt> THAT BUG
<desrt> it's SO ANNOYING
<Lathiat> like, really
<desrt> and nobody knows what the hell causes it
<Lathiat> nope
<Lathiat> i tried to figure it out once
<desrt> i've tried more than once
<desrt> someone needs to bounty that
<Lathiat> hell
<Lathiat> i'll put 100AUD in
<ajmitch> desrt: it's why I never use gnome-terminal, ever
<minghua> Lathiat: I user black on white, with menu bar on (which is the default)
<Lathiat> minghua: ok
<ajmitch> it would cause me to throw my laptop across the room
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> so
<Lathiat> konsole works fine. ; p
<ajmitch> konsole is ugly
<Lathiat> one of the things konsole does that g-t doesnt
<Lathiat> is it ignores alt+presses
<Lathiat> for the menus
<Lathiat> and actuallyu terminals it
<Lathiat> its why i turn the menubar off in gnome-terminal
<Lathiat> in konsole i just leave it on
<Lathiat> because it doesnt get in the way
<ajmitch> which any terminal should
<Lathiat> the other thing is
<Lathiat> if i cant double click or right click a URL to open it
<Lathiat> i go insane
<Lathiat> thats why i use gnome-terminal on gnome
<minghua> Lathiat: when you know where to donate for that irssi+screen+gnome-terminal bug, tell me and I'll chip in US$50
<Lathiat> on kde i could use mrxvt because klipper does the whole double click -> do an action cus its now in the clipboard thing
<Lathiat> but on kde, konsole is fine and i can use the same thign with it :)
<Lathiat> i'd use mrxvt otherwise
<Lathiat> closest thing
<Lathiat> ajmitch: what do you use? 
<ajmitch> pterm
<ajmitch> ugly, but functional
<Lathiat> eww
<ajmitch> gtk+ 1! 
<Lathiat> also this gdm bug
<ajmitch> so I wonder if fans are dead in this broken box here
<Lathiat> where on dual head it doesnt focus gdm is annoying
<ajmitch> since it has a nasty sound when I turn it on
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<ajmitch> where you have to move the mouse to focus it? 
<Lathiat> wow, drag selecting around the desktop isnt really slow anymore
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
<Lathiat> i filed a bug somewhere on that
<Lathiat> also the notifications dont respect xinerama
<ajmitch> selecting used to be crap
<Lathiat> yeh ti flies now
<Lathiat> i can move the mouse aroudn real fast
<Lathiat> all over the joint
<Lathiat> and not notice
<Lathiat> impressive
* ajmitch thinks PSU fan might be dust-clogged..
<Lathiat> lol
<Lathiat> mdzzz.ogg
<ajmitch> huh? 
<Lathiat> on install
<Lathiat> i get this Examples folder
<Lathiat> and it has a video of mdz waking up
<Lathiat> called mdzzz.og
<Lathiat> flight-5 install
<minghua> in example-content package
<Lathiat> hrm no visualization in totem
<Lathiat> seems not to have a default visualization selected
<Lathiat> in fact i set it and it still doesnt work
<Lathiat> odd
<Lathiat> oh no there it goes
<ajmitch> it's not the debconf mdz & co with a guitar? 
* ajmitch missed that video
<Lathiat> im glad i've remembered the launchpad ubuntu filebug url
<Lathiat> ajmitch: nope
<Lathiat> i want that
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> its the most user friendly way to get to the bug filing page
<Lathiat> so on first login
<Lathiat> it should open totem playing that example song
<robitaille> I wonder if mdzzz.ogg will be available after  the release :)
* Mongoose is back (gone 10:51:32)
<Lathiat> hrm gnome needs to be able to have a wall paper disaplay once on both xinerama screens and not stretch
<ajmitch> ah, poor mdz
<Lathiat> where would icons for oo files be? 
<Lathiat> .odg (draw) files are missing icons
<Lathiat> e.g. what package do i file against
<ajmitch> openoffice.org ? 
<ajmitch> dunno, actually
<Lathiat> well i was wondering
<Lathiat> if the icons in oo.o
<Lathiat> ubuntu-artwork
<Lathiat> or somethign else
<ajmitch> file against ubuntu-artwork
<ajmitch> seb can get on hating you if it's wrong
<Lathiat> might get attention there
<Lathiat> ;p
* dolson goes to watch Jim Gaffigan
<Lathiat> ugh tryign to importm y mp3 collection into RB and it just crashes too much
* dolson never had good luck with RB
<Lathiat> might be a 64bit issues or something
<Lathiat> it used to be fine
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<zakame> hi all
<dolson> wow, gnaural has to get into dapper+1
<dolson> hi zakame
<dolson> this is a weird app..
<zakame> heya dolson , what's hacking? 
<dolson> nothing, I'm just listening to binaural waves in gnaural, and it's wacked.  after about 2 minutes I had some weird sensation of immediate, temporary dizziness, for about 2 seconds, and it comes on every once in a while.. very strange stuff
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<dolson> hi Toadstool
<zakame> hello Toadstool
<zakame> dolson: whoa
<dolson> zakame: yes, it's very weird.. they have a deb that just works(tm) on dapper
<dolson> I can't find any presets for it though
<dolson> there are other apps (proprietary) with user-contributed presets for various states of mind and such
<dolson> oooook, enough of that.  lol
<dolson> my head started wobbling
<Toadstool> :)
<dolson> oi.  according to Adobe Audition's disclaimer, this kinda thing can induce seizures and death
<zakame> hmmm...
<zakame> reminded me of Mars Attacks
<dolson> I'm feeling sleepy.. night all
<sivang> hi all
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> im getting alot of gcc segfaults
<Lathiat> is it particularly problematic on amd64? 
<Lathiat> hope theres nothign wrong with my system :\ hrm
<Lathiat> nothing else seems tobe having issues tho
<cassidy> Is there any MOTU uploader around ? 
<Lathiat> whats up? 
<freeflying-ibook> cassidy: hi
<cassidy> freeflying-ibook: hi.  Could you consider to sync flashplugin-nonfree with Debian
<cassidy> freeflying-ibook: see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/29214
<Ubugtu> malone bug 29214 in Baltix "package is falulty in downloading the binary" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<cassidy> freeflying-ibook: it's a *very* annoying bug.  The package is currently not usable
<freeflying-ibook> cassidy: for sync , you may ask elmo
<cassidy> humm he's not here :\
<tseng> a sync is still not possible aiui with the new launchpad build system
<tseng> and we are in freeze anyway
<cassidy> i know but freeze something that doesn't work is not very useful :)
<slomo> siretart: ping? 
<netzmeister> pong
<ogra_> cassidy, make a diff between the two packages, find the code that fixes it in our package (and only this), file a bug and attach the diff to that bug, i'm pretty sure its only a one liner (different download location)
<cassidy> ogra_: no the script was entirely rewritten in bash
<ogra_> cassidy, thats bad
<cassidy> i really don't understand why it's a problem.  the current package is completely broken, it can't be worst ! 
<ogra_> if you want a sync the requires a bunch of bureocracy to get a freeze exception
<ogra_> and i'm pretty sure it didnt just change yesterday
<cassidy> ogra_: i'm ok to fill the forms ;)
<cassidy> the package is broken since a lot of time
<cassidy> ogra_: what's the procedure ? 
<ogra_> cassidy, ugh ....
<ogra_> thats a heavy change
<ogra_> they didnt only change the script, but the whole implementation
<cassidy> ogra_: yes i know.  the old implementation was completely buggy
<ogra_> even if its nice that they dropped the ruby crap, its simply a completely new packge ...
<cassidy> yes know.  But we can't lost anything since the current package doesn't work at all ! 
<cassidy> IMHO it's more interesting to have a package that could work than one than we're sure it doesn't :)
<ogra_> the procedure is described on the ubuntu-motu ML anywhere, look at the list archives ... but its really really late ... sad that nobody pointed out that stuff 4 weeks ago
<ogra_> (it generates a lot of work for several people that dont have time now, because it has to be reviewed)
<cassidy> the bug is old but the fix in Debian recent
<cassidy> i will look for that.  thanks
<cassidy> ogra_:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-January/000177.html this one ? 
<siretart> slomo: pong (but im in learning mode)
<ogra_> cassidy, yep
<slomo> siretart: please set uvf-exception bugreports to need info only when some of the stuff isn't attached or wrong... and to unconfirmed when everything is in place and we only have to decide whether we want this or not :)
<siretart> slomo: oh, I did something wrong with some report? 
<siretart> sorryt
<slomo> siretart: yes... but i guess we all did :) don't worry
<siretart> ok
<siretart> ok, hwinfo approved.  uploading that
<slomo> siretart: will we get the new wpasupplicant from debian with the qt stuff splitted off for dapper?  i guess when we have 6 more weeks the new network-manager with wpa support could get in and it would be bad to have qt installed together with it :)
<siretart> slomo: we would just need to sync the current debian package
<siretart> slomo: so if you really care, just fakesync/merge the current debian package, I'm using it without problems on my laptop
<slomo> siretart: ok... thanks... i'll do it then :)
<ogra_> siretart, slomo (and other germans) there is a TV report about ubuntu/edubuntu on 3sat at 2am tonight (in case you are awake and have a TV)
<ogra_> :)
<slomo> ogra_: oh... did they interview you? :) 
<siretart> ogra_: ah, interesting.  thanks for info
<ogra_> naaah
<ogra_> just cebit stuff
<ogra_> http://www.3sat.de/3sat.php?http://www.3sat.de/neues/sendungen/spezial/89716/index.html
<ogra_> it was already sent friday (i missed it)
<siretart> ogra_: you are in hanover? 
<ogra_> woulde be cool if someone could make an ogg of it :)
<ogra_> siretart, i was born in hannover and know when not to go there ;)
<ogra_> (as long as i dont need i wont go there during CeBIT) :)
<siretart> ah :)
<ogra_> its the time of year where you cant easily get from A to B and i likle to visit friends if i'm home :)
<siretart> i see.  I could have imagined that canonical/edubuntu would have some booth there
<ogra_> it has
<jsgotangco> hey ogra_ how's life treating you :)
<ogra_> thus the report
<ogra_> jsgotangco, slacking around ...
<ogra_> its sunday :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra_> siretart, we have the fair team form ubuntu-de-ev, they are present there together with mdy from canonical
<siretart> gnarf.  no uploads from here
<siretart> back to learn mode
* Hobbsee wishes it was still sunday! 
<freeflying-ibook> Can i delete the bug I filed , because I filed it  to a wrong distro . 
<lucas> hi
<freeflying-ibook> hey lucas
<bddebian> Hey gang
<dolson> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Do we have a wiki on setting up a buildd at all? 
<mitsuhiko> moin
<mitsuhiko> because of this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/34606/
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34606 in Nexenta OS "Administrator root password readable in cleartext on Breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<mitsuhiko> why not an "delete this stupid file" postinst maintainer script in an package updated next time? 
<Dominus> am I the only one who is having difficulty with OpenGL on an i810 chipset? 
<Dominus> (clarify: Intel imbeded graphics driver 855)
<bddebian> Dominus: Probably not :-)
<bddebian> Is xubuntu using archive.ubuntu.com or do they have their own repo? 
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes the packages are in the main repository
<bddebian> Ah
<Dominus> bddebian: yeah, it seems like there's a whole list of problems with Intel graphics drivers
<Dominus> bddebian (or anyone): is the Intel Linux graphics driver (from their website) integrated in the kernel or any distros? 
<Dominus> ...or are there licensing problems with that? 
<bddebian> Dominus: I don't know, sorry
<ajmitch> Dominus: definite licensing problems
<Dominus> bddebian: no problem, I'm curious if anyone's tried installing it
* ajmitch doesn't really have any issues with this 915GM using the standard x.org driver though
<Dominus> ajmitch: really?  on my 855 anything OpenGL is cut off, shrunken, or somehow distorted - like there's a resolution conflict or something
<Dominus> ....otherwise the graphics card works great
<Dominus> and, of course, if I knew the first thing about OpenGL or driver programming I'd dive in with make and fix it myself ;)
<phanatic> hi people
<Gervystar> Dominus: my 855GM doesn't work at all anymore
<Gervystar> Dominus: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-i810/+bug/29880
<Ubugtu> malone bug 29880 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "X hangs and doesn't release the console" [Critical,Confirmed] 
<Dominus> Gervystar: thanks
* ajmitch must be a lucky one :)
<Dominus> well, it's good to know now - I just gave a dist-upgrade order on Breezy! 
<Gervystar> Dominus: i'm using vesa (arghh) actually ;-/
<Dominus> Gervystar: well, it's no surprise - I've had nothing but trouble with the i810 chipset
<Dominus> Gervystar: I had to dump Debian sarge because I couldn't get the sound to work
<Gervystar> Dominus: well with breezy it worked out of the box, instead
<Dominus> Gervystar: that's why I've stuck with Ubuntu :D
<vrln> is universe already frozen as in regarding new packages?  I was just wondering if there are any plans to add BMPx to universe.  It would be a good app for showing all the cairo etc stuff, and it's already a lot better in almost every way than the old bmp
<vrln> (http://bmpx.beep-media-player.org/site/BMPx_Homepage)
<ajmitch> yes, it's frozen for new packages
<vrln> ah, ok, nevermind then :)
<Dominus> oh, something's always made me wonder about apt: it downloads and installs packages in two separate processes
<Dominus> what is the reason why, say when dist-upgrading, it doesn't start installing packages whilst waiting for others to download? 
<Erlang> Dominus: why would it do that? 
<Dominus> Erlang: because downloading, to my understanding, doesn't use a whole lot of the processor, so it could use the spare cycles getting started on the work
<Erlang> okay
<Erlang> Dominus: my understading of apt is limited, but I think at many points, it will need to wait for a download to complete before installing further applications, right? 
<Dominus> Erlang: I probably know less about apt than you do.   Understandably, the computer can process faster than it can download, obviously
<Dominus> Erlang: but if it, say, has 200 packages to download (say at around 400 megs), wouldn't it make sense to install each package (keeping dependencies in mind)...
<Dominus> ... as it finishes downloading rather than waiting for all 200 to download then starting? 
<Dominus> from what i understand of apt, which admittedly is very little, it strikes me as better use of the system's resources
<philuk86> slomo are you there? 
<slomo_> philuk86: yes
<Erlang> Dominus: yes, it seems to make sense to mee too, but I'm not sure it would save that much time. 
<philuk86> slomo_: would it be posible for gstreamer-0.10-bad to add an mp3 profile to gconf? 
<Dominus> Erlang: I agree, it only makes sense if you run something like > apt-get dist-upgrade
<Erlang> and one don't run dist-upgrade very much.   I suppose that is why that was never implemented. 
<Dominus> Erlang: perhaps
<slomo_> philuk86: you mean ugly-multiverse? 
<Dominus> Erlang: or if you decide to install a new piece of software with a lot of dependencies
<Dominus> Erlang: anyway, it was just a thought
<kandinski> hey
<philuk86> slomo_: yes sorry.  I distributed some ubuntu cds recently and quite a few people have asked about how to rip cds into mp3s.  They don't understand how to add their own profile for that. 
<Erlang> Dominus: what if a networks shortage happens during the dist-upgrade, if downloading things in parallel? 
<Dominus> Erlang: that's what I was thinking, which is apt would have to install the dependencies first
<Dominus> Erlang: but the assumption is that once someone runs apt-get, they'll want the whole thing installed
<Erlang> There might be a corner-case where using your method might break things horribly ;D
<Erlang> knowledgeable Debian developers would find one I'm sure...
<slomo_> philuk86: well, i'll take a look at it tomorrow... should be fairly easy... what pipeline would you want? 
<philuk86> slomo_: I think if it was added for them when they installed the *-ugly package then it would make the experience much more enjoyable. 
<Dominus> Erlang: oh, probably - hence the question :D - it just struck me as interesting
<Erlang> Dominus: when I think [feature]  would be nice, I always try to think why it's not already implemented...
<Erlang> Dominus: it is interresting. 
<Dominus> Erlang: well, let's say that, out of 200 packages, only 100 dependencies installed
<Dominus> Erlang: could the 100 other packages sitting on top of that break? 
<Erlang> I don't see how. 
<philuk86> slomo_: please see http://pastebin.com/598591
<Dominus> Erlang: neither do I
<slomo_> philuk86: no id3mux? 
<philuk86> slomo_: im not aware of what that is
<slomo_> philuk86: it's needed for adding tags to the file
<philuk86> slomo_: you mean artist info and such?  im not aware how to add that, there isnt much on google or on the forums about id3mux. 
<slomo_> philuk86: i'm not sure how exactly it works... but "audio/x-raw-int,rate=44100,channels=2 !  lame name=enc !  id3mux" is the pipeline that the sound-juicer author recommends for mp3s
<philuk86> slomo_: ok let me test that pipeline. 
<philuk86> slomo_: works fine here, all the artist info etc is added on both of the cds i tried. 
<slomo_> philuk86: nice... i'll add it to the package then... should be fairly easy by installing a new schema
<slomo_> philuk86: but tomorrow, not today :P
<philuk86> slomo_: I and my friends will greatly appreciate it thanks. 
<LaserJock> hello everybody
<phanatic> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi phanatic
<Mongoose> hey
<LaserJock> hi Mongoose
<LaserJock> >:(  My first upload to universe didn't build
<Mongoose> woah
<Mongoose> well, I found some 64bit bugs in an app  =)
<Mongoose> that should have been fixed when I fixed the stable version
<mgalvin> there used to be 'moin' package but it seems to be gone... only moinmoin-common is available, is this the correct package?  it seems weird that there is a moinmoin-common but no moin
<netzmeister_> hi everybody..
<LaserJock> hi netzmeister_
<netzmeister_> hi LaserJock
<phanatic> hi netzmeister_
<netzmeister_> Have anyone experience with Kernel Module Development? 
<netzmeister_> hi phanatic
<LaserJock> anybody running Gnome in Dapper at the moment? 
<netzmeister_> yes
<phanatic> yeah
<LaserJock> are you guys in -devel?  can you confirm a quick bug? 
<phanatic> not there...
<LaserJock> "system->admin->disks, click partitions, click browse.   Make a file, see if it was made by root or your use"
<netzmeister_> k
<phanatic> LaserJock: root
<netzmeister_> LaserJock:  Yes, root
<netzmeister_> ;-)
<LaserJock> ok, thanks guys
<netzmeister_> Have anyone experience with Kernel Module Development? 
<LaserJock> YokoZar: I'll confirm the bug then. 
<YokoZar> Thanks everyone
<YokoZar> Tag it serious and security too
<LaserJock> YokoZar: ok, we've poked seb128.  Hopefully he can get it fixed before release. 
<YokoZar> Sweet
<Psi-Jack> Hey, anyone here know what version of gcc the breezy kernel-images are compiled with? 
#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-18
<ilmari> Psi-Jack: 3.4
<Psi-Jack> Aha!  That's why spca5xx locks up on me. :) 
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<dolson> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> dolson: pong
<dolson> LaserJock: you busy? :) 
<LaserJock> hmm, depends
<dolson> this just needs to be uploaded, that's all http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2130
<dolson> if you have time to do it, this is the UVF for it https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/34244
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34244 in seq24 "seq24 UVF request" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<LaserJock> dolson: it looks like the comment says it was done
<LaserJock> dolson: have you looked at the build on LP? 
<slomo_> LaserJock: it isn't uploaded yet
<slomo_> feel free to do so... otherwise i will upload it ;)
<LaserJock> slomo: ok, I'll do it
<Spec> heh, that was quite a bug (34606)...
<slomo_> Ubugtu: bug #34606
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34606 in Nexenta OS "Administrator root password readable in cleartext on Breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34606
<dolson> sorry LaserJock I went to the washroom.  the build didn't fail, did it? 
<Spec> by all users, at that. 
<Spec> it's confirmed and fixed already though, so that's wrong...
<LaserJock> dolson: no, it hasn't be uploaded.  I'm going to do that now. 
<Toadstool> Colin Watson fixed it really quickly but the news has spread all over the net faster than that :/
<dolson> ooo, Ubuntu is joining the Linux Audio dot Org consortium... I wonder who is responsible for that
<Spec> well, as long as it's fixed quickly, that's good. 
<Spec> although i have to wonder how long this has been a bug....
<Toadstool> about 5 months...
<Spec> nice...
<Toadstool> I can already read the forums' headlines : "the best distro of the year was in fact the less secure"... 1 month and a half before dapper release that sucks...
<Toadstool> now I have to go to bed if I want be able to wake up for school tomorrow, gn8 everybody
<tritium> hmm, /var/run/tor dir tends to disappear a lot
<LaserJock> dolson: ok, seq24 hit dapper-changes
<dolson> thanks LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> dolson: np
<LaserJock> hi Kyral and minghua
<Kyral> hey
<Kyral> anyone know where anacron logs too? 
<minghua> hello LaserJock and Kyral
<LaserJock> Kyral: /var/logs I would imagine
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> trying to figure out if the update script I put in /etc/cron.daily on my server is firing off
<LaserJock> minghua: need any uploads? 
<minghua> LaserJock: heh.   not yet
<minghua> LaserJock: will pester you when I need :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: ok fine.  I'm in a bit of a sponsoring mood tonight ;-)
<bddebian> We are "sponsoring" now? 
<LaserJock> well, I'll sponsor uploads if they need to get done
<Kyral> Hehe, soon XenBreezy will become Xen Dapper
<bddebian> LaserJock: So you've become the Master eh? :-) 
<Kyral> when did bddebian get here
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<bddebian> Fuuuuuuuuck I hate qt-x11-free
<Spec> editing a wiki, what's the best way to flag command?  bolding them? 
* Kyral yawns
<Kyral> I'll get my MOTUNess during Dapper+1
<bddebian> Kyral: Awesome
<Kyral> right now I'm learning about Xen and webservers and stuff :D
<dolson> Spec: in MediaWiki, I always put a space at the start of the line.  not sure about MoinMoin or any others
<Spec> xen is cool
<bddebian> Xen pfft :-)
<Spec> dolson: i'm using wiki.ubuntu.com
<Spec> that's not a moinmoin, is it? 
<Spec> oh, it is
<LaserJock> hi bddebian btw.  I'm a MOTU now.  In some ways I don't feel like one but I try.  I am sure grateful that you got me started with the MOTU
<bddebian> LaserJock: Awesome, congrats.   I feel REALLY bad that I have been MIA. :-( 
<Kyral> I'm gonna try Gentoo on this laptop tomorrow
<Kyral> yah I feel bad that I have been slacking off lol
<Spec> I'm trying to become a member still :p
<Spec> I had to leave early the last meeting so i could attend a conference and give out ~1300 ubuntu cds to people who work in the government, so they didn't let me join 'cause i wasn't there :p
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, we are MIA at some point
<bddebian> Spec: Well I did quite a bit of stuff for Breezy but I'm still not a Member according to Launchpad :-)
<LaserJock> Spec: well, that contribution should help towards becoming a member for sure
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, you're special wiki is still around ;-)
<Spec> ah hah!  it's {{{ and }}}
<Spec> LaserJock: i know, it was unfortunate timing, they said my profile looked good enough to become a member
<bddebian> LaserJock: That's sad :-)
<LaserJock> Spec: well, next time.  I'm sorry that you weren't able to make it. 
<Spec> how do I make a block of text render like a block of text as i've written it in the wiki editor? 
<Spec> like, in html, it'd be """ whatever """
<LaserJock> Spec: You might check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnEditing
<Spec> ah, i thought all the help was only at the bottom of the page
<Spec> which is very limited :p
<Spec> ah, very helpful, thanks
<LaserJock> np
* Erlang looks but will hopefully be very much more helpful with Dapper+1 too...
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> hello
<ajmitch_> what's new? 
<bddebian> I fixed all the bugs
* ajmitch_ can't ssh to his home box from uni for some reason
<bddebian> ;-P
<ajmitch_> great, I can go back to holiday mode then
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch_
* ajmitch_ sees his home box is still on irc, so nothing too major has happened
<ajmitch_> hey LaserJock
<Erlang> ajmitch_: that happens to me all the time when I leave my computer alone too long... they can't seem to live without me. 
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: do you know if builds are retried after failure on soyuz? 
<ajmitch_> yeah
<ajmitch_> I'd better go home & sort it out :)
<Spec> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WiFiBroadcomDriver
<ajmitch_> since the lab here has taken about 10 minutes to do 75% of it
<ajmitch_> and I could do the rest at home
* ajmitch_ feels like a nice cold drink
<Erlang> last time it was only dyndns.org screwing up. 
<ajmitch_> sure, except I'm getting 'no route to host', and dns is correctly resolving
<dolson> ogra: do you want the bugs filed against gnome-screensaver?  no, right?  you want them against the apps themselves
<LaserJock> hi G0SUB
<G0SUB> LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hmm, stupid laptop ran out of juice :(
<Kyral> Night MOTU
<LaserJock> cya Kyral
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<spacey> hi
<ajmitch> hey spacey, what's up? 
<spacey> i want to sleep
<spacey> how are you doing ajmitch:)
<minghua> good night MOTUs
<ajmitch> good :)
* dolson installs 55 games to test gnome-screensaver
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> go report those bugs ;-)
<dolson> LaserJock: ogra must been away, do you think that if gnome-screensaver comes on during <game> then the bug goes against g-s or <game?  >
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure.  If you do it against the game you should probably subscribe ogra so he can see it easily. 
<Lathiat> yeh i agree with lj
<dolson> k, that's what I will do if any of these don't respect g-s
<Spec> Mailman/lists.ubuntu.com should require gpg keys, and encrypt any e-mail sent to me that contains my password... Where would I file that suggestion officially? 
<Spec> so, making wiki pages gives you no karma? 
<Yagisan> I don't think it does.  Fixing bugs does - hint hint ;)
* ajmitch gets a-fixin'
* ajmitch is actually working on a bug at the moment
<Yagisan> I amazed my wife today.  I showed here how with 1 line of text I could set ubuntu up to record, trancode and burn the japanese news at 5:30am for her, automatically, 6 days a week. 
<ajmitch> wonderful :)
<Yagisan> isn't cron nice ;)
<ajmitch> how well do you understand japanese? 
<Yagisan> more spoken then written.  I can do very basic conversation
<Yagisan> I can start to understand some preschool shows now
<Yagisan> I wish cron also let me specify seconds as well as minutes
<ajmitch> you need it to be that accurate? 
<Yagisan> for tv recording, it would be nice.  currently I trigger recoding 1 minute before the program is due to start
<dolson> Yagisan: you could put a sleep 45 at the start of your cron command line :)
<Yagisan> dolson: yes that is a possibility. 
<Lathiat> Yagisan: you often want a minue fuzzyness on recording anyway? 
<Lathiat>  *minute
<Lathiat> i in fact use 5 minutes..
<Yagisan> Lathiat: 5 ?  I give a few minutes past the end in case it's late, but not that much.  I chew up 6GB/hr just dumping it down
<dholbach> good morning
<Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey guys! :) 
<ajmitch> dholbach: how was your weekend? :) 
<Yagisan> G'day dholbach
<Lathiat> Yagisan: yeh but 5 minues isnt going to hurt ;p
<Lathiat> Yagisan: i dont know about tv there, but tv here can tend to move around by a few minutes
<Lathiat> mayeb yours is better, i dunn
<Lathiat> o
<dholbach> ajmitch: merci beaucoup - it was fine... caught up with mails, did a bit of python hacking, tried the new records i bought in london, went to a thai place - stuff like that
<dholbach> ajmitch: how was your weekend? 
<Spec> i've been meaning to find a good thai place
<Yagisan> Lathiat: it does move around here, but as I can only pick up one channel (when the wind is blowing right), I don't mind missing the ads at the start ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: alright, flew back to NZ on saturday, did very little yesterday
* ajmitch is back to hacking now
<Lathiat> ouch 1 channel ;p
<ajmitch> Lathiat? 
<Lathiat> yagisan
<ajmitch> ah, I see context
<Lathiat> context from 3 lines up ;p
<ajmitch> 3 lines + extra junk in between :)
<Lathiat> my terminals 80x35 and i could see it still ;p
<sivang> ajmitch: still working on the embedded project? :) 
<Lathiat> err, 80x25
<ajmitch> sivang: ? 
<ajmitch> see context above.. ;)
* ajmitch is back in NZ
* Lathiat kicks ajmitch 
* ajmitch kicks Lathiat 
<Lathiat> ouch
<Lathiat> bastard. 
<ajmitch> enough of that
<ajmitch> I'm not here to be nice
* Lathiat pulls the CoC card
<Lathiat> can anyone tell how bored i am? ; p
<ajmitch> yes
<Lathiat> 23 minutes and counting.. :)
<ajmitch> morning siretart! :) 
<freeflying> looking for review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2143
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<Mithrandir> Mongoose: please turn off public away
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you? 
<siretart> thanks fine.  I'm currently at work.  how are you? 
<ajmitch> alright
<siretart> :)
* ajmitch is keen to get back into packaging
<siretart> a friend is telling me that he was just bitten by selinux not letting him run vmware
<siretart> I think selinux is right ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<Lathiat> haha
* dolson just noticed that the music for the late-night Girls Gone Wild advertisements is similar to the music in the Nintendo video games such as Mario Golf... hmm
<siretart> looks like I don't need to send out another sync report
<ajmitch> sistpoty has uploaded them all? 
<siretart> no idea
<siretart> seems like someone (*sigh*) needs to check each item if it is uptodate in dapper
(hub/#ubuntu-motu) azeem: I fixed upstream
(hub/#ubuntu-motu) azeem: with the maintainer permission
(azeem/#ubuntu-motu) ah, cool
(Spec/#ubuntu-motu) azeem: I thought the dh_python was supposed to find all the depenencies, this program depends on python2.4-reportlab, python2.4-wxgtk2.6, etc
(hub/#ubuntu-motu) azeem: but I just wonder if I just should bother making a clean patch or not
(Spec/#ubuntu-motu) it's easy enough to make my own dependencies though
(hub/#ubuntu-motu) azeem: because next update upstream will not need the clean patch
(azeem/#ubuntu-motu) hub: having it in the diff is better practise I think, splitting up the .ac patch from the regeneration patch would be nice, though
(hub/#ubuntu-motu) s/clean//
(hub/#ubuntu-motu) azeem: I have to change the rules to also regenerate auto*
<hub> etc
<hub> and that is more work
<azeem> hub: that's the other possibility
<hub> for something that won't be need at next version
<Tm_T> Riddell: ok, so if I use version like 4:3.5.1-kopete0.12, I still have "initial release" in changelog? 
<azeem> then you would have to Build-Depend on autotools, which some people don't like
<azeem> Spec: dh_python can only figure out the correct python version to use I think
<raphink> Tm_T: yes
<raphink> imo
<Tm_T> huh
<Spec> azeem: that's good, because i explicitely specify that :p
<raphink> because it's the first release of this source
<raphink> and the changelog is linked to the source, not to the binaries
<Tm_T> raphink: yeah, you know it's hard to make nice debian dir ;)
<raphink> Tm_T: hehe
<Tm_T> not much idea what there should be and what not
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> Riddell: /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.svgz after last upgrade of k-d-s
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> doesn't sem to  have really fixed the wallpaper, on the contrary
<Riddell> raphink: hmm? 
<raphink> oops sorry, wrong paste
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> wait
<raphink>  $ kdesktop: WARNING: failed to load SVG file /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.svgz
<raphink> that's it ;)
<raphink> I had pasted just the end of it
<Spec> how is source distrobuted when you apt-source something, is that the created tar.gz file? 
<raphink> since i upgraded k-d-s, I hvae no wallpaper anymore
<Tm_T> :p
<Tm_T> raphink: that's kubuntu-default-settings? 
<raphink> Spec: you get the orig.tar.gz, the .dsc and the diff.gz (or other files in case this is a debian-native), then it runs dpkg-source -x on the dsc to extract the dir
<raphink> Tm_T: yes
<Tm_T> aye
<Spec> Well, i didn't get an orig.tar.gz or a diff.gz created, but I did get a python-package-version.tar.gz created
<Tm_T> I don't have any diffs either
<Tm_T> Spec: orig is just renamed default package
<Tm_T> s/default/original
<Spec> just the tarball of the source? 
<raphink> Riddell: it installs a png wallpaper but still gets the svg as default it seems
<raphink> (I still dislike this new wallpaper very much)=
<Spec> hehe, yay, it worked
<Kyral> Cya guys I'm off to play with my puppies :D
<hub> Kyral: what kind of puppies? 
(Kyral/#ubuntu-motu) hub: a 3 year old Chocolate Lab and a 1 year old West Highland White Terrier
<Kyral> -ELATE
<Tm_T> chocolate lab as human baby? 
<Kyral> Tm_T, no, dog breed
<Tm_T> aah
<Tm_T> eat it
<Kyral> ....
<Kyral> STAB! 
<Tm_T> ah, two e
<Tm_T> not dog bread
<Kyral> ....
<Tm_T> ;)
* Kyral hands Tm_T a bottle of Bawls
<Kyral> Caffine you need, Yoda say! 
<Kyral> Actually I can pull up pics of the dogs if you really wanna see them
<Erlang> I do I do
<Kyral> http://clarkson.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2000901&l=ba169&id=21601643
<Tm_T> :)
* Tm_T is more child- than dogperson
<Gloubiboulga> could anyone have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2059 ? 
<hub> Kyral: cute
<Kyral> hub: Don't I know it
<hub> Kyral: looks really dark for a chocolate lab
<hub> my GF wants a Boston Terrier
<Kyral> hub, Its prolly my camera, but yah, Mia pup is kinda dark.  But when the light hits her coat right...
<Kyral> Terrier == Hyper
<hub> Kyral: I remember a Westie nagging my ex-in-laws' Lab
<Kyral> hub, they get along well :P
<hub> yeah
<hub> but one was behing the gate
<Kyral> lol
<hub> and they both had the same name :-)
<Spec> where are ubuntu version docs? ( how to version packages...)
<Spec> so who maintains multiverse? 
<netzmeister> what do you mean?  there are many multiverse maintainer! 
<netzmeister> which package? 
<hub> Spec: MOTU maitains multiverse
<Spec> ah, okay, so they maintain both universe and multiverse
<G0SUB> Spec what did you think?  MOTM ? 
<Spec> well, i had a feeling there was a secret underground organization called MOTM....
<G0SUB> hehe
* Tm_T hides
<G0SUB> is Kubuntu providing KDE updates for Breezy? 
<netzmeister> hello MOTU's ;-)
<LaserJock> morning everybody! 
<G0SUB> LaserJock it's almost 00:00 here :)
<LaserJock> well, good afternoon and good evening everybody! 
<G0SUB> hehe
<LaserJock> netzmeister: nabend! 
<G0SUB> LaserJock have you dist-upgraded to dapper btw? 
<LaserJock> G0SUB: what do you mean?  like dist-upgraded today? 
<G0SUB> LaserJock no ... not today
<netzmeister> LaserJock:  hello
<netzmeister> Xgl is a funny thing.. :-D
<LaserJock> G0SUB: well, I've been running Dapper-only since the repos opened
<LaserJock> G0SUB: I haven't seen Breezy since ~ November last year ;-)
<G0SUB> LaserJock hehe ... okay ... I am thinking about upgrading today ... hope nothing breaks :)
<Erlang> be wary of initramfs...
<G0SUB> Erlang I don't use / need any
<Erlang> good. 
<ogra> you wont get around it :)
<Erlang> my kernels got kinda broke when I dist-upgraded to dapper. 
<ogra> 2.6.14+ *needs* initramfs ...
<ogra> just dont fiddle with the defaults, then all is fine :)
<Erlang> it was sad because once I fixed that problem Dapper booted and ran just fine on the KDE side. 
<Erlang> GNOME was/is still annoying because of that bug with evdev. 
<G0SUB> Erlang which bug? 
<ogra> i was about to ask this ...
<Erlang> gnome-settings-daemon crashes if one uses evdev with a strange button setup...
<ogra> i also would like to know which kind of initramfs probs yopu had ...
<Erlang> me? 
<ogra> since on 8 machines here i never saw any probs with initramfs ...
<ogra> (3 different arches)
<Erlang> I wish I understood better. 
<ogra> so what did that mean?  <Erlang> be wary of initramfs...
<LaserJock> ogra: who are the buildd admins?  elmo and Kamion? 
<Erlang> I don't really understand how it happened.   I just know that there was no /dev/hda in the initramfs. 
<ogra> Erlang, after you upgraded to dapper ? 
<Erlang> I don't know how but the dist-upgrade process seems to have skipped the install of udev. 
<Erlang> ogra: yes. 
<ogra> LaserJock, infinity and lamont normally
<ogra> Erlang, when was this ?  in the middle of the udev rewrite ? 
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm, ok.  so do I just ask for a give-back? 
<ogra> yep
<ajmitch> morning
<Erlang> ogra: but I tried so much things to fix the problem that I'd have troubles pinpointing which steps fixed the problems. 
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ogra> Erlang, we rewrote udev completely, that was an expected behavior in the beginning of the release cycle ...
<Erlang> I might have been unlucky...
<Erlang> Seeing "/dev/hda not found" was quite a bit traumatic.   I'm luckly I've had enough nerves remaining to fix the problem.   I did not try to undeerstand what caused it at first. 
<ogra> you should have only come to #ubuntu-boot as advised on the mailing list
<ogra> and would have fixed it within 10 mins :)
<ogra> but that was fixed ages ago ...
<Erlang> I might have used the wrong channel.   I did not get much support from IRC.   In fact, I remember providing support to some people wanting to install Xgl. 
<G0SUB> Erlang how did you fix your issue? 
<G0SUB> ogra what's the standard procedure to fix such problems? 
<ogra> G0SUB, follow the development very closely ;)
<G0SUB> heh
<ogra> ususally if we have expected brakage like that one, it gets annunced in advance
<Erlang> GOSUB: Booted from breezy rescue, installed udev and many other packages, fiddled wit the config a bit, and dpkg-reconfigured my kernels several times.   That's all I remember. 
<G0SUB> ogra is any such breakage expected now? 
<Erlang> ogra: I'm guilty of not following closely enough.   I'm rather new to this.   I'll certainly be more wary. 
<ogra> G0SUB, also dont upgrade to a development release to early in the cycle ...
<G0SUB> ok
<G0SUB> but today?  I am dist-upgrading today
<ogra> we usually rip everything apart in the beginning and glue it together again :)
<ogra> we're near the end land past most freezes, upgrade should be fine nowadays
<ogra> s/land/and
<G0SUB> ok
<Erlang> I upgraded just after UVF I think. 
<dholbach> hrm, we still have no new motu report in place :-/
<ogra> who was up to do it ? 
<ogra> or better, was anyone up to do it ? 
<dholbach> whoooooo, it's the BIRTHDAY ISSUE
<ajmitch> hm? 
<ajmitch> whose birthday? 
<dholbach> MOTU REPORT
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> and MOTU is just a bit older :)
<ajmitch> has much been happening in the MOTU world lately? 
<dholbach> sure
* dholbach starts to add to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Report
* ajmitch starts to write a UVF exception request for f-spot
<dholbach> "has much been happening in the MOTU world lately?"  is not exactly cheery :)
<ajmitch> sure, but it's mainly been more of the same - more bugfixing :)
<ajmitch> sometimes no news is good news :)
<LaserJock> lol, true
<dholbach> hrm
<LaserJock> but we did get some new MOTUs ;-)
<bddebian> dholbach: Hi Daniel :-)
<dholbach> hi bddebian
* dholbach hugs bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra> dholbach, bddebian is back, isnt that worth an erntry in the motu report ? :) 
<bddebian> Not hardly, unless I get my ass in gear :-)
<Mithrandir> consider it encouragement to do so? :-) 
<ajmitch> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/+bug/34799
<Ubugtu> malone bug 34799 in f-spot "UVF Exception: 0.1.10 -> 0.1.11" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<ajmitch> :)
<bddebian> Mithrandir: :-)
<G0SUB> bddebian hello! 
<LaserJock> is there any reasons for a package build to fail in soyuz but work in a pbuilder? 
<LaserJock> they should be essentially the same, right? 
<bddebian> Hello G0SUB
<G0SUB> bddebian you might know me ... I used to be GNULinuxer ;)
<bddebian> Ah nice. :-)   I REALLY should change my nick :-)
<G0SUB> bddebian hehe
<ogra> bdubuntu ? 
<bddebian> bdhurd ;-P
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> not unless you ported ubuntu to it
<G0SUB> bddebian hehe ...
<slomo> LaserJock: which package is it?  something that uses scons? 
<bddebian> bdworthlessass? :-) 
* ajmitch thinks bddebian shoudl change nick to stjude
<LaserJock> slomo: yes, supercollider
<ajmitch> patron saint of lost causes ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hahaha
<LaserJock> lol
<slomo> LaserJock: talk to a buildd admin about it... afaik all scons stuff fails on the buildds
<LaserJock> slomo: hmmm, ok.  That stinks. 
<LaserJock> slomo: thanks for the heads up
<ajmitch> slomo: thanks for UVF :)
<slomo> LaserJock: it's the same for ardour iirc
<slomo> ajmitch: np ;)
<LaserJock> slomo: at least it isn't just me.  I was starting to wonder if something was screwy with my pbuilder
<phanatic> hi people
<LaserJock> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey LaserJock
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
<phanatic> hi bddebian
<netzmeister> re
<phanatic> hi netzmeister
<netzmeister> hi phanatic
<lucas> sbody up for a tetrinet ? 
<LaserJock> hi lucas
<lucas> hi lakin :)
<lucas> oops
<lucas> LaserJock:
<lucas> I really hate xchat's completion mode
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> lucas: I was tweaking my script for MOTU Science that uses mdt.  I was wondering how you pick out just Universe/Multiverse packages? 
<lucas> you could select by section using grep-dctrl
<LaserJock> lucas: can you grep for more than one thing with grep-dctrl
<LaserJock> lucas: I just did it in two steps and then used mdt filter
<lucas> I dunno
<LaserJock> well, anyway I got something that works
<LaserJock> although I couldn't get a fresh bzr branch to work
<lucas> ah ? 
<LaserJock> something wasn't working in versions2html.rb
<LaserJock> I think it gave an error having to do with net/http
<lucas> where are you running it ? 
<lucas> tiber ? 
<LaserJock> oh, and debian/control should have a dep on grep-dctrl I think
<LaserJock> lucas: no, on my local machine
<lucas> you need to install libopenssl-ruby
<lucas> well, debian/control needs updating :-)
<lucas> lots of deps missing
<lucas> feel free to work on that if you feel like it
<LaserJock> but I couldn't figure out if the "net/http" problem was because of a dep
<lucas> probably: it requires libopenssl-ruby to be able to fetch https:// urls
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't have that
<lucas> doing ubuntu work is sometimes impressively frustrating. 
<phanatic> lucas: what do you mean? 
<LaserJock> lucas: ah, libopenssl-ruby fixed it.  now it works
<lucas> I'm just trying to build librmagick-ruby on ubuntu.  it build-depends on cdbs >= 0.4.33 because 0.4.33 fixed debian bug #284231. 
<Ubugtu> debian bug 284231 in cdbs "dpatch-edit-patch doesn't work" [Normal,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/284231
<lucas> cdbs in ubuntu has diverged a lot and is 0.4.32ubuntu13. 
<lucas> I can't work on an updated version because the base version (0.4.32) is no longer available anywhere (broken morgue)
<dholbach> what are you trying to do now? 
<lucas> so I can't determine what's changed
<lucas> I dunno yet
<lucas> I could try to backport the change to cdbs anyway, making it diverge even more
<lucas> or I could change librmagick-ruby build system to make it compatible with the buggy cdbs
<dholbach> if that's enough to depress you, then file a bug about cdbs
<lucas> i'm the debian maintainer for librmagick-ruby, so it's quite strange to have to divert my own packages :)
<dholbach> I'd try to focus on making stuff work, not on not creating diversion - maybe that helps :)
<lucas> then, the only way to fix this would be to merge the new debian version, which fixes a lot of bugs
<lucas> but merging cdbs 0.4.32ubuntu*13* and cdbs 0.4.36 without 0.4.32 doesn't look like something easy to do
<dholbach> then just change your package
<dholbach> and file a bug
<dholbach> i mean forward the bug to launchpad
<lucas> I filed the bug, will wait for a few days and see what happens
<lucas> ah, I could just override the rule in debian/rules.  will do that. 
<Kyral> arg
<Kyral> this laptop is configured for Debian Sid lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: and that is a problem? 
<Kyral> No
<Kyral> I was suggetsing it for cleanup of the tree :P
<Kyral> whoops wrong chan
<Kyral> damn you LJ lol
* LaserJock queues evil laugh    muhahaha
<Kyral> I thought you said that in #ubuntu-doc
<BBDG|brb> does anyone know if there is there an aol dialer that will run on breezy badger? 
<dholbach> night guys
<phanatic> nite dholbach
<dholbach> night phanatic
<sivang> any MOTU here for a sponsered upload? 
<LaserJock> what do you need? 
<sivang> LaserJock: first upload of HomeUserBackup, in accordance with mdz's approval to upload it to other people could help me finish it. 
<sivang> LaserJock: would also appricaite if you could check it;'s building in pbuilder, and installs and runs under a clean chroot which I don't poses at the momnet. 
<LaserJock> sivang: is it on REVU? 
<sivang> LaserJock: nope , is not.  must I put it through REVU before? 
<sivang> LaserJock: and if this is a must, what do I need in order to upload to REVU? 
<LaserJock> sivang: you don't have to but it is easier for people to check it out, etc. 
<LaserJock> sivang: check out wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU for more info. 
<LaserJock> sivang: I don't know if I have time right now to do that in-depth of a check.  If you give me a URL for the source package I can at least take a glance at it. 
<sivang> LaserJock: sirestart signed my key at UBZ, but not sure I have had the oppurtunity to sign his since them.  will this be a problem for uploaidng to REVU? 
<sivang> LaserJock: sure, will do
<LaserJock> sivang: you just need to send a signed email to keyring@tiber.tauware.de if your key is uploaded to the the ubuntu key server already
<sivang> LaserJock: ah okay, cool. 
<sivang> LaserJock: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/upbs/
<sivang> LaserJock: I wonder if I need have .orig.tar.gz for a full source upload, as it was not created as I carried the build process.  let me know if this is an issue. 
<sivang> LaserJock: if you're busy, I coudl ask some other people for a review
<LaserJock> um, yeah.  we need the .orig.tar.gz .  you need to add -sa to debuild or dpkg-buildpackage or whatever you are using to build the source package :-)
<Spec> heya sivang
#ubuntu-motu 2006-03-19
<sivang> heya Spec , 'sup? 
<sivang> LaserJock: I did debuild -sa , still did not produce the orig. 
<LaserJock> sivang: debuild -S -sa
<sivang> err
<sivang> the hour :)
<sivang> LaserJock: hrm, debuild hates me.  I added this and still no orig. 
<sivang> LaserJock: anything specificin the packages' strucutre I may be doing wrong to not get it? 
<sivang> LaserJock: (I did debuild -S -sa)
<LaserJock> sivang: oh wait, doh.  I see it
<LaserJock> sivang: you created a debian native package. 
<LaserJock> sivang: that means everything is in the tar.gz file
<sivang> LaserJock: is that bad?  I think I want native debian package no? 
<LaserJock> sivang: well, it sorta depends. 
<sivang> LaserJock: please, explain if you can, I'm listening. 
<LaserJock> sivang: well, a debian native package has the debian/ directory in the source
<LaserJock> sivang: so if you want to distribute your app to other distros it is a bit messier
<LaserJock> sivang: any change in the packaging requires a new .tar.gz file
<azeem> HomeUserBackup sounds like a good candidate for a native package, though
<azeem> would it be useful on non-Ubuntu/Debian systems? 
<tseng> i dont see how anything is a candidate for a native package, tbh
<LaserJock> azeem: I agree.  I just wanted to put out the pros and cons
<tseng> it isnt really any easier to work with imo
<LaserJock> sivang: if don't do a native debian package then the packaging part (debian/ etc.)  is separate from the actual app source (which is in the .orig.tar.gz)
<LaserJock> sivang: it makes things a bit cleaner IMO and as tseng says it can be easier to work with since you can update the .diff.tar.gz without messing with original app source
<sivang> azeem: could be a gnome upstream package someday, I hope.  I just need to add dar as a depdency to setup.py
<sivang> LaserJock: yes, indeed. 
<sivang> LaserJock: I'm sold, how to convert it? 
<sivang> azeem: could be useful on any system which has the right version of python , glade and gtk and dar ofcourse. 
<azeem> then it might make sense to convert it, yes
<sivang> debian-mentos FAQ also suggests it as a better approach
<LaserJock> sivang: so do you have a tarball of the source without the debian/ directory, etc. 
<sivang> LaserJock: I can create one
<LaserJock> sivang: ok, do that
<LaserJock> sivang: but make sure to save the parts that you take out
<sivang> ofcourse, everything I Have under bzr rcs :-)
<tseng> yay bzr
<LaserJock> sivang: ah, good
<sivang> tseng: sweetness
<sivang> LaserJock: okay, I have a source tar.g
<sivang> tar.gz
<LaserJock> sivang: ok, so what is it named? 
<sivang> LaserJock: upbackup-0.0.1.tar.gz
<LaserJock> sivang: ok, so now copy that to upbs_0.0.1.orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> sivang: and then untar the .orig.tar.gz
<sivang> LaserJock: where in? 
<LaserJock> sivang: where it is
<sivang> LaserJock: done
<LaserJock> sivang: ok, so what is the untarred directory called? 
<sivang> LaserJock: darn, like the original name upbackup-0.0.1
<sivang> LaserJock: but I can change my pakcage to that name, it's not biggy
<LaserJock> sivang: well, whatever
<sivang> LaserJock: then I drop the debian dir inside and debuild -S -sa? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<sivang> cool, I think I got it. 
<sivang> LaserJock: thanks. 
<LaserJock> sivang: np
<LaserJock> hi marcin`
<TerminX> someone needs to fix the proftpd packages to deal with /var/run/proftpd being missing after a reboot
<marcin`> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> TerminX: go for it :-)
<redguy> hi
<LaserJock> hi
<redguy> I just wanted to ask if there are any efforts on bringing the last.fm player into ubuntu.  Is this the right place to ask? 
<TerminX> what's the proper way to deal with that?   modify the init script to create it (because even if the daemon is started from inetd/xinetd, the init script still runs to say "proftpd is started from inetd")? 
<LaserJock> redguy: you might want to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates It looks like it might be on the list
<redguy> LaserJock: indeed. 
<redguy> thanks! 
<LaserJock> np
<redguy> there's one more question I would like to ask.  How are menu entries managed in ubuntu?  It seems that the "menu" debian package only manages the Debian tree of the menu.  How are menu items supposed to be added in the gnome or kde menus? 
<LaserJock> redguy: the freedesktop.org standard .desktop files are used by gnome and kde
<redguy> hmm, so "menu" is deprecated? 
<LaserJock> redguy: basically, yeah
<sivang> redguy: if you drop a .desktop complaient file under /usr/share/applications it will appear in the menu accoording to the catagories you specified. 
<redguy> thanks guys
<Spec> sivang: how goes home-user-backup? ;) 
<sivang> Spec: fine, will be uploading a package soon, so you could join me and help.  and I do need help :)
<Spec> what language are we dealing with? 
<sivang> Spec: python
<Spec> oh thank god
<sivang> Spec: http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/upbackup--main/
<Spec> that's the only language i can program half-decently, but even then, i'm not that good of a programmer
<sivang> Spec: branch it, as I don't update the working tree there
<sivang> Spec: how much experience do you have? 
<Spec> probably not enough to be all that much of a useful asset
<Spec> i've been to pycon a few times
<Spec> Can't say I've ever used bzr though :p
<sivang> Spec: well, any other good experience is okay.  I didn't know python bottom-up , but being long time pro0grammer I just got addicted for the batteries included and how easy is to do certain stuff in python
<sivang> Spec: the complex parts, are ofcourse possilbe, if however take a little longer. 
<sivang> Spec: bzr is so cool and easy. 
<sivang> Spec: http://bazaar-vcs.org/IntroductionToBzr
<Spec> i've heard
<Spec> but isn't merging branches a bitch? 
<sivang> Spec: depends :)
<ajmitch> no, it's rather simple usually
<sivang> it's very simple by UI, and it helps if you know around yoru code
<sivang> (for resolving conflicts etc)
<Spec> but if three people are working on three branches and do, let's say, 3 weeks of work each, then merge it all together...it's still easy? 
<ajmitch> Spec: you can never remove the need for developers to communicate
<Spec> ah, okay :p
<sivang> Spec: if they don't break one another's work yes, and if they make sure to pull from each other before cotninue work
<Spec> so, bzr branch <url>
<ajmitch> no system can solve stupidity :)
<sivang> ajmitch: indeed :)
<Spec> that seems pretty complex :p
<LaserJock> ajmitch: darn :(
<sivang> Spec: think in O(n^n) ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I wish bzr would write code for me too..
<Spec> yeah, ...why does't it? 
* ajmitch will bbl
<Spec> err, i'm getting an error sivang
<Spec> bzr: ERROR: Error retrieving http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/upbackup--main/.bzr/revision-store/49/sivan%40ubuntu-20060111153425-0658effc5cefdb6e: <urlopen error (-2, 'Name or service not known')>
<Spec> although it connects at first, and seems to download some stuff
<sivang> Spec: ah, soprry, I'm currently updating the branch
<sivang> Spec: better retry later
<sivang> Spec: and I'm using the sftp plugin which allows locking
<sivang> weird that it gives that sort of message
<Spec> ah, ok
<sivang> almost there
<sivang> loading revisions 168/248 0:01:43
<sivang> Spec: done, retry
<Spec> so what's the state of this? 
<Spec> err, nevermind, i still get an error
<sivang> Spec: talk to you tomorrow, sorry, gotta hit bed. 
<Spec> yeah, i haven't slept in two days
<sivang> Spec: oh god, that's not good. 
<sivang> Spec: night! 
<Spec> spring break ended
<Spec> work had to be done :-/
<minghua> hello MOTUs
<bddebian> Hello minghua
<minghua> hi bddebian!   see you around quite often recently, coming back for ubuntu work? :-) 
<Kyral> bddebian, I heard you are one of those GNU/Hurd freaks :P
<bddebian> I should be :-)  Probably not much until Dapper + 1though :-(
<bddebian> Kyral: Aye :-)
<Kyral> bddebian, I've been wanting to try it on this laptop
<bddebian> Kyral: Not a good idea if you want network support :-)
<Kyral> but I heard laptop support for it is where Linux was 10 years ago :P
<Kyral> I'm about to try GNU/Solaris (Nexenta)
<bddebian> Cool, I was looking at that
<Kyral> I'll let you know how it goes
<Kyral> I mean I think my wireless card is gonna be a PAIN
<Kyral> it uses the ACX drivers
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<bddebian> crimsun: How well do you know qt-x11-free? 
<crimsun> bddebian: about this well: > <
<crimsun> (not well)
<bddebian> :-(
<crimsun> packaging or code issue? 
<bddebian> Both :-)
<crimsun> ick, the worst of both worlds :)
<bddebian> crimsun: Well the code issues I can get around.   The build thing, I can't figure out :-(
* minghua goes home.   be back later. 
<tritium> bddebian: it's good to see you again
<bddebian> tritium: You too brudda
<bddebian> How ya been? 
<tritium> Same old.   You? 
<bddebian> Pretty much.   Was busy as shit at work for a while :-(
<tritium> I am too. 
<crimsun> yeah, everytime it seems there might be a breather, stuff hits the fan again
<crimsun> 'lo tritium
<tritium> hi crimsun :)
<bmonty> if a package version is "4" and I want to do a rebuild for unmet deps is "4-build1" ok? 
<bddebian> 4build1 isn't it? 
<crimsun> 4build1
<bmonty> ok
* bddebian remembers something, WOW :-)
<crimsun> of course :)
<bmonty> no dash since there isn't a package version
<bmonty> right? 
<bmonty> bddebian: you are the man :)
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> bmonty: no, BddebianIsGod
<bddebian> Noooooooooooo
<bmonty> hi minghua
<minghua> hello bmonty
<bmonty> brb
<Lathiat> guys im getting hdd errors in dmesg that says 'ata5' 'ata7' etc
<Lathiat> how do i find out what disk that actually refers too? 
<bddebian> Isn't that equivalent to hda5, hda7, etc? 
<crimsun> what do they align to in /sys/block/ ? 
<Toadstool> gn8 motus
<Kyral> Night MOTUish people
<nate_> maybe someone here can help, I'm trying to customize an ubuntu installation CD for creation of a college-specific computer forensics ubuntu distro and I was wondering if anyone knows of any good docs for ubuntu's implementation of d-i and specifically the setup of preseed files? 
<minghua> hi nate_, the only preseeding doc I know about is Debian's, and I have no idea if it applys to Ubuntu or not
<nate_> minghua, i appreciate the reply.   I've been through their docs and found them lacking and was really looking for any of those well-hidden gems of docs some people have in their bookmarks :D
<freeflying> nate_: there has doc on wiki for remarster install cd
<nate_> freeflying, yes, but it doesn't explain the install process or the various preseed file directives
<nate_> freeflying, except in very general/generic terms
<freeflying> nate_: you can use oem preseed
<Lathiat> Anyone know how to get the serial out of a hard drive?  sata? 
<Lathiat> in /sys i can find the vendor and model adn everything but not the serial
<nate_> freeflying, i've looked through it, but it's still not very helpful.   Thank you for trying though
<minghua> nate_: I assume you know the link http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed then
<nate_> minghua, i can look that over, but i'm really looking for ubuntu's implementation
<nate_> minghua, i don't know how much they differ
<minghua> nate_: I don't either
<minghua> nate_: sorry can't help much
<nate_> minghua, alas!  woe is me!  :D
<freeflying> nate_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
<nate_> freeflying, yeah, working with that already, but I want to understand the installation and the preseed files and whatnot, so my customization isn't haphazard, and so troubleshooting isn't a nightmare
<nate_> someone on ubuntu-boot pointed me to a VERY useful doc (well, so far): http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/
<nate_> just now
<dholbach> morning
<G0SUB> dholbach: good afternoon :)
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<zakame> hiu all
<dolson> hi zakame
<zakame> hello dolson
<freeflying> hey zakame
<zakame> hello freeflying , whazup? 
<ajmitch> evening
<zakame> heya ajmitch
* ajmitch missed the start of the meeting, though not a lot has been happening :)
<dolson> sounds to me like there isn't really a thought to not delaying
<dolson> it's more of a "don't worry, the delay is Good" thing
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> either way we've got a *lot* of work to do on universe
<zakame> yay
<ajmitch> heh
<Jobman> Hi, MOTUs.  I want to help/contribute.  Can anyone tell me how to start? 
<dholbach> hey Jobman - nice to hear! :) 
<dholbach> in the current phase of the release process we are mostly fixing bugs and getting things work
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs for example is a list of bugs that are assigned to our team
<dholbach> and there are quite a bunch of packages that are not installable at the moment - we're trying to sort them out as well
<dholbach> apt-cache -i unmet   might give you an idea
<ajmitch> dolson: I'm tempted to do the WPA thing myself, since it'd be nice to have :)
<ajmitch> Jobman: help is always welcome :)
<nate_> yeah, i'd like wpa to be working, i struggled with that for a long time
<ajmitch> wpa works perfectly fine as-is
<ajmitch> as long as you know how to set it up
<ajmitch> the issue is mainly integrating with NetworkManager, and porting a lot of the NM 0.5 patches to 0.6
<ajmitch> it's not a simple task :)
<dolson> ajmitch: go for it
<dolson> you got sabdfl's approval
<ajmitch> hah
* ajmitch uses WPA exclusively at home
<dolson> <sabdfl> dolson: ok, well spread the word that a contribution will make it happen
<dolson> in case you missed it :D
<ajmitch> yeah I was reading the meeting
* ajmitch didn't feel it was necessary to volunteer myself in there :)
<dolson> heh
<ajmitch> plus it's the sort of thing that has to pass mdz's approval for UVF exception, feature freeze exception, etc
<ajmitch> not simple
<nate-> dholbach, what was that link to the upgrader? 
<dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-January/014700.html
<nate-> on my laptop now
<ajmitch> now the meeting channel turns into a general free-for-all :)
<siretart> ajmitch: you use wpa at home?  May I use you as guinea pig? ;) 
<ajmitch> siretart: sure, what are you planning? 
<siretart> ajmitch: we improved integration of wpasupplicant in ifupdown a lot
<siretart> this has to be tested
<siretart> ajmitch: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-wpa/branches/wpasupplicant-0.5/?rev=0&sc=0
<siretart> this is our svn of the wpasupplicant-0.5 branch. 
<nate-> i struggled with wpa and never got it configured properly
<ajmitch> great, I'll fetch it
<siretart> I'm testing this if this works somehow and plan to have it uploaded to experimental as soon as I get it working on my laptop
<siretart> and if someone else could confirm it works, even better
<siretart> ajmitch: thanks.  you help us a lot! 
* ajmitch goes to break his laptop
<ajmitch> checking out
* Jobman also uses WPA @ home
<dolson> argh
<nate-> siretart, i can try it out for ya, i'm about to upgrade to dapper, is that neccessary? 
<dolson> I permanently broke CTRL+L in xchat-gnome apparently
<siretart> nate-: I don't have any binary packages prepared your, you will have to check out the svn manually and build it yourself in dapper
<siretart> nate-: the supplicant itself works for me on dapper, but I haven't tested the integration scripts yet
<siretart> see the README.modes file
<nate-> siretart, well, just hit me up if you need me to test any of that, just stating i have a guinea-pig system for ya
<siretart> nate-: cool.  that'll be great
<ajmitch> siretart: I don't have a current sid setup on my laptop to test in debian
<ajmitch> testing in dapper should be adequate for a start? 
<siretart> ajmitch: you'll have to rebuild it manually anyway
<ajmitch> I'm building
<siretart> I'm just uploading binaries
<ajmitch> install: cannot create regular file `debian/wpasupplicant/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf': No such file or directory
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> wpasupplicant.dirs? 
<siretart> http://siretart.tauware.de/wpasupplicant holds binaries built in a dapper chroot
<siretart> ajmitch: err, huh? 
<ajmitch> siretart: debian/wpasupplicant/etc wasn't created, so install failed
<siretart> intersting why it doesnt fail for me.. hmm
<ajmitch> siretart: btw if you have time I have a UVF exception report written up for f-spot again
<siretart> l
<siretart> ajmitch: I'll do that tonight, I need to leave now
<ajmitch> alright, thanks
<siretart> hm.  I don't think that file should be installed at all, btw
<siretart> just comment that install out
<siretart> cu tonight. 
<ajmitch> ok, see you later
* ajmitch had better sleep now also, night all
<nate-> later ajmitch
<nate-> and siretart
<kelmo_lap> hi siretart
<kelmo_lap> the handling of "driver_file" in wpasup is kinda annoying me, is its aim to be user configurable? ( not admin)
<kelmo_lap> no, its location rules that out . . . 
<phanatic> hi people
<bddebian> Hey gang
<nate_> howdy
<Kyral> Morning MOTUish peoples
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<dholbach> i just announced a HUG DAY on Friday
<dholbach> hope you'll all going to be there
* nate_ cries
* Kyral hugs dholbach
<dholbach> so we get up to scratch with Universe again
* G0SUB will be there dholbach
<Kyral> oh not that kinda hug lol
<dholbach> ROCK
<Kyral> Oh well, I'm not on my main box, but I can traige like crazy
<G0SUB> dholbach: what's the timing for the Hugs? 
<dholbach> friday all day
<ogra> G0SUB, 5 per minute if youre good
<Kyral> yah I haven't been checking my mailing list email
<G0SUB> fine
<Kyral> channel? 
<nate_> what does HUG stand for? 
<ogra> #ubuntu-bugs
<Kyral> ty ogra
<G0SUB> ogra: I will manage 1 per 5 minute :)
<ogra> hehe
<Kyral> I'll go on a  triaging spree like you have never SEEN
<ogra> nate_, its another word for embrace
<nate_> ogra, wow....
<Kyral> there will be no untriaged bugs in LP when I get done with it
<ogra> haha
* Kyral pulls out a case of Bawls
<Kyral> hehehe Caffine :D
<ogra> #   Unconfirmed  (6858)
<ogra> # Unassigned (3959)
<Kyral> yah I'll target those
<ogra> Kyral, that would be quite impressive if you'd manage to get it down to zero in one day :)
<Kyral> ogra, that should look good when I go for MOTU lol
<Kyral> "Reduced the number of untriaged bugs to Zero in one day"
<ogra> hehe, you'd be MOTU HC
<Kyral> HC? 
<ogra> honoris causa :)
<Kyral> ...translation? 
<Kyral> < === Just woke up
<ogra> (latin and means MOTU by honor)
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> actually wait..
<Kyral> I just woke up *looks at his stomach*
<Kyral> yah thats what the sound was
<ogra> get dressed man !!! 
<Kyral> No I'm dressed
<ogra> heh
* Kyral goes to download a current LiveISO
<Kyral> ..good god cdimage is slow...
<bddebian> Yes :-(
<Kyral> Does Kernel.org mirror us yet? 
<Kyral> I know I get awesome speeds from Kernel.org
<Kyral> Actually....whats that Debian program that determines the fastest mirror for you?  Apt-Spy? 
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> we could easily adapt apt-spy to work with Ubuntu
<Jobman> I think I've fixed at least one unmet dep (enigmail-locales).  So what sould I do next?  Upload to REVU? 
<nate_> do you need to get permission from the developers of a package to maintain a package of it? 
<phanatic> nate_: no, but it's good to let them know, that you're working on it
<phanatic> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi phanatic
<LaserJock> Yeah for a HUG Day! 
<nate_> phanatic, and how do i go about applying to have a package added to the repos??   I'm really surprised it isn't actually
<G0SUB> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> G0SUB: I sent the list (with a few deletions) of science related apps to the lp admins so that the MOTU Science team will be added to the initial bug contact list
<phanatic> nate_: do you mean getting permission from upstream?  or ubuntu devs? 
<G0SUB> LaserJock: oh, that's great
<nate_> phanatic, ubuntu devs i suppose, i'd like to see it in breezy
<phanatic> nate_: there is no way to include a package in breezy
<hub> slomo: what di you change to autopano-sift? 
<LaserJock> nate_: what is the package?  It won't be in breezy and it probably can't make Dapper either
<phanatic> its development cycle has closed
<slomo> hub: it's using gtk#2 now
<nate_> LaserJock, pyflag
<hub> slomo: ah ok
<slomo> hub: just some Makefile patching
<hub> slomo: okay
<tseng> bddebian: hows it going
<bddebian> Busy man, you? 
<hub> slomo: I thought there was another bug
<tseng> busy
<tseng> but less than you, I guess
<nate_> LaserJock, ubuntu has all the dependencies and there is a package that has already been made by the pyflag people that works just fine
<LaserJock> nate_: nobody has put it on the Candidates list (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates)
<nate_> hrm
<LaserJock> nate_: and I don't see anything on REVU
<netzmeister> hello MOTU's
<netzmeister> ;-)
<phanatic> hi netzmeister
<nate_> LaserJock, so....how can I go about getting it added? 
<LaserJock> nabend?  netzmeister
<LaserJock> nate_: add it to that wiki page
<phanatic> nate_: can you package it?  or you need someone to get it packaged? 
<netzmeister> hi phanatic, hi LaserJock
<netzmeister> hi slomo :-)
<nate_> phanatic, i can package it
<slomo> hi netzmeister
<crimsun> nate_: follow the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<phanatic> exactly :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah, yeah.  good page
<natroll> kk, got my own name now :)
<phanatic> natroll: :)
<natroll> so it's too late to add a package to breezy or have it added to dapper? 
<bddebian> hmm :-)
<natroll> so i would have to wait until the next release? 
<crimsun> natroll: quite possibly [even with the probable 6-wk delay] 
<crimsun> natroll: the packaging work can be done anytime
<natroll> crimsun, that doesn't seem right...but what do i know.   i suppose it could conflict with something and make testing a nightmare
<crimsun> natroll: well, you can't add anything to breezy period; it froze almost 5 months ago
<natroll> wow, didn't even know that
<crimsun> natroll: dapper is possible but fairly improbable
<natroll> what would make it more probable? 
<LaserJock> natroll: Dapper hasn't been released yet
<natroll> LaserJock, I know, but I'm wondering how to increase the chances of it being included
<LaserJock> natroll: you would need to do an exception report as to why it is absolutely needed
<LaserJock> natroll: and then it would have to be approved
<natroll> LaserJock, hmmm
<natroll> what do you guys think about including a 'computer forensics' side to ubuntu? 
<natroll> maybe in the next release
<natroll> (not dapper)
<natroll> tools like sleuthkit and autopsy are already included.   throw in pyflag and it's pretty well on it's way to being able to do most tasks
<LaserJock> natroll: sounds cool
<natroll> well, that's what I want to move towards
<natroll> and pyflag is the first step
<natroll> so i need to file an exception report apparently? 
<LaserJock> natroll: well, to be honest I don't know how good the chances would be.  We have had a Feature Freeze ( when we stop added totally new packages) since 23rd of Feburary. 
<natroll> ahhh poo
<natroll> who would i talk to about that? 
<LaserJock> natroll: well, you need a package first
<LaserJock> natroll: and then you can write a report and probably send it to the ubuntu-motu mailing list
<LaserJock> natroll: probably the best bet is to shoot for Dapper+1 and then see if it is backport material
<natroll> LaserJock, hmmm, while i'd like to, maybe i'll do it this summer. 
<Mr> i would like to fix bugs
<LaserJock> natroll: sometimes it takes a while to get a suitable source package made.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule has the Dapper release schedule
<LaserJock> natroll: we are close to the end there
<natroll> LaserJock, I would be making the package myself, and hopefully be the maintainer
<LaserJock> natroll: but you are welcome to work on the package at any time.  REVU will be really good to get feedback
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: good.  You might check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs for bug squashing info
<crimsun> natroll: (primary maintainer?  We don't own packages by ourselves in Ubuntu.) 
<natroll> crimsun, yeah
<natroll> crimsun, is that so?  how does it work? 
<crimsun> natroll: all of MOTU maintains universe and multiverse
<crimsun> we have primary points of contact for certain packages, of course, but any MOTU can make changes to any package in universe & multiverse
<natroll> so i need to be in the MOTU to create and maintain the package? 
<LaserJock> natroll: you can also try to get your package into Debian (where they have maintainership)
<crimsun> no, only to upload
<natroll> hrm
<LaserJock> natroll: Universe/Multiverse are community maintained which means anybody can send in a patch.  But only a certain group (the MOTUs) can actually upload to the repos. 
<natroll> ok, well i'll work on that package today
<LaserJock> natroll: cool, just make sure to make source packages so you can upload it to REVU
<natroll> LaserJock, what is REVU? 
<natroll> something upstream
<LaserJock> natroll: REVU is a special server used by the MOTU to review community submitted packages
<natroll> oh, ok
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU has more info
<natroll> thanks :D
<LaserJock> natroll: np
<natroll> i'm gonna take a break, i'll be back in a while
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: ah, your here ;-)
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, yes :)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I uploaded build2 for supercollider the other day
<Gloubiboulga> I've seen this, thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: there were some scons issues that prevented it from building
<Gloubiboulga> ah...
<Gloubiboulga> what can/should I do? 
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: those got fixed last night but supercollider doesn't seem to like 64 bit archs
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, yes, it's specified in the debian/control file IIRC
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: to not build on 64 bit ? 
<Gloubiboulga> I'm looking in the sources
<ogra> sources ? 
<ogra> microsource ? 
<Gloubiboulga> '' is just next to the <enter> key on my keyboard ogra :)
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: ok, I see some are i386 ppc but others are any and all
* ogra wouldnt even know where his '' is on the ibook keyboard 
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, yes, `supercollider' is i386 and ppc
<LaserJock> hmm, having a  '' would be pretty cool for me as a scientist
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, it's a belgian keyboard
<Gloubiboulga> I can find one for you if you want ;)
<desrt> ogra, laserjock; compose u /
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: ok, well I'm not really sure about what it exactly going on with supercollider
<ogra> desrt, and where is my compose key on a de-nodeadkeys keymap ? :) 
<desrt> ogra; that's your problem :)
<ogra> heh
<bddebian> Anyone know if there is some way for me to disable ACPI on a server install? 
<LaserJock> what's a compose key? 
<desrt> ogra; good choice might be your right meta key
<ogra> nodeadkeys disables compose :)
<ogra> you have to explicitly set it ... but i'm a lazy bastard
<desrt> LaserJock; lets you combine 2 characters
<desrt> LaserJock; like <compose> <"> <o> = 
<desrt> or <compose> <u> </> = 
<Mr_Spiff> do you guys do development in a chroot
<Mr_Spiff> or xen or something? 
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: depends
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: what do you mean by development? 
<Mr_Spiff> well say you've got a bug in firefox
<Mr_Spiff> do you use the latest builds of everything
<LaserJock> we generally run Dapper (or at least have a Dapper chroot) if that is what you mean
<Mr_Spiff> yeah so you run dapper on your dev machine? 
<LaserJock> well, I've run soley dapper for quite a few months but lots of people just have a dev machine
<Mr_Spiff> OK cool
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: but right now I do most of my packaging work in a dapper chroot on a sarge box
<Mr_Spiff> strange, why not eat your own dogfood? 
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: well, on that box I need a 2.4 kernel so...
<Mr_Spiff> just curious!   so dapper probably won't hose my system? 
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: shouldn't but it is still a development release so you use it at your own risk ;-)
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: but if you want to work with bugs it is helpful to at least have a dapper chroot
<Tonio_> hi
<Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_
<Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: still no news for *netswitch ? 
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, there's no amd64 package in debian for supercollider...
<Gloubiboulga> Tonio_, Kamion should have a look at those packages soon
<Mr_Spiff> laser: i'm a student, i'll just dist-upgrade :D
<Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: nice thanks ;)
<LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: cool
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: but is that because it is just allowed to fail or is it not even tried? 
<Gloubiboulga> according to the BTS, they tried to build it on amd64 but it failed
<Gloubiboulga> I'd like to test this but I only have an x86
<Mr_Spiff> i'll test it
<Gloubiboulga> Mr_Spiff, thanks :)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: infinity told me that it looked to him like if the warnings in the i386 build were fixed the 64 bit stuff might work
* Gloubiboulga is rebuilding the package to see the warnings
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you can also look on Launchpad
<Gloubiboulga> right
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/12/msg00281.html
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: interesting.  Well, as long as we are in a similar situation to Debian. 
<Jobman> I think I've fixed  an unmet dep (enigmail-locales).  So what sould I do next?  Upload it to REVU? 
<crimsun> Jobman: no, generate a debdiff and attach it to the malone bug
<Kyral> word of warning no talky in the current meeting in #ubuntu-meeting or else you get this wierd voice ban thing
<crimsun> +q ? 
<crimsun> aka muzzle? 
<Kyral> no it was a % ban
<crimsun> yes, that's +q
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> meh all I did was lol'd at one of sabdfl's jokes...
<natroll> lol
<Kyral> I hope he remembers to remove it later...
<natroll> ok, it wasn't funny
<natroll>  /msg him
<Kyral> I msg'd Seveas with a "sorry.."
<tseng> get it removed another time
<Kyral> hai
<Kyral> Just wanna make sure it gets removed eventually...
<tseng> if someone bans you, its amazingly annoying for them to send you a private message 2 seconds later to have it removed
<Kyral> no it was jus a "sorry.." sheepish thing
<Kyral> I like to apologize for offenses as soon as I commit them
<crimsun> god, so many people pushing for wpa (although xsupplicant is complete arse)
<Kyral> wtf is WPA?  I mean I know what it is, but why is it so important
<tseng> because people think wep is insecure
<natroll> because people know wep is insecure
<tseng> which it is, but it leaves the question "does it really matter?" 
<Kyral> Which it is...compared to WPA...but wireless transmission has always been insecure compared to "land-line"
<tseng> its enough of a deterent to keep war drivers off your net
<tseng> and unless you are an idiot, you use strong cryptography to send stuff across the network anyway
<natroll> wpa2 with the largest key possible is actually very difficult to break
<tseng> whether you use a wire, or wep, or wpa
<tseng> encryption to the WAP imo is only useful for detering people from freeloading on your network
<Kyral> yah, "Law of the Net No.1" Never assume a secure transmission unless you KNOW it
<tseng> which WEP does well enough
<Kyral> yup
<Kyral> I mean if I'm sending secure data, I'm gonna be using SSH or SSL regardless
<tseng> exactly. 
<crimsun> I think I'm going to scream at the wpa comments. :) 
<natroll> i know if i went war-driving i'd be looking to practice cracking wep
<Amaranth> everyone is bitching about wpa :/
<Kyral> I disagree with the college thing
<tseng> natroll: really, and then what
<Amaranth> WEP can't be cracked these days
<Kyral> I mean, all the Wireless AP hotspots on my campus are completely insecured
<natroll> tseng, nothing, because i'm not evil like that
<natroll> lol Amaranth, you keep thinking that
<Amaranth> unless you have old hardware there are no weak packets leaked
<Amaranth> natroll: trust me
<natroll> Amaranth, no thanks
<Amaranth> only old or crappy hardware gives you what you need to break WEP
<Amaranth> otherwise you have to bruteforce
<Kyral> Has the suggestion that April 20th be used as the release for the Release Candidate been raised yet? 
<natroll> ok, you depend on that then Amaranth
<crimsun> I don't think people have any idea how much EXTRA work will have to be done to push both wpasupplicant and n-m into shape
<Amaranth> natroll: if i'm using wireless i don't expect anything to be secure
<Amaranth> natroll: i meant for keeping people from joining your network
<tseng> i dont expect anything to be secure if im plugged into a switch
<tseng> w/o ssl
<natroll> lol
<tseng> Amaranth++;
<Kyral> anyone? 
<Amaranth> anyway, i gotta catch a ride
<natroll> Amaranth, yeah, WEP functions as a deterrant for your average user, which I'm sure i'm surrounded by
<Amaranth> hopefully the meeting won't be over when i get back
<crimsun> Kyral: place it on the wiki? 
<Amaranth> natroll: it stops the smart people too
<Amaranth> natroll: unless you have bad/old hardware
* Kyral falls down
<Amaranth> natroll: there are no weak packets/ivs to work with
<Kyral> nevermidn I'll keep quiet
<Amaranth> natroll: i can scan a network for hours and only get 12 of them
<natroll> Amaranth, there are techniques to generate traffic on those networks to get more weak packets
<tseng> he wasnt talking about level of traffic
<tseng> he was talking about fixing weaknesses in early wep
<tseng> this is getting pretty boring, and off topic
<Mr_Spiff> regardless WPA is obviously preferred at colleges ;)
<tseng> if you want encryption
<tseng> use ssh/ssl
<natroll> the weaknesses still exist.   Well, according to my network security instructor who goes to SANS every year
<crimsun> wpa2 is preferable, but I am NOT a fan of the extra amount of work that MUST occur over and beyond what already needs to be done
<natroll> i'm not saying the implementation hasn't improved
<natroll> crimsun, indeed, ideally we need some sort of authentication with generated keys, similar to vpn connections and whatnot
<Mr_Spiff> this is strange, of course everyone has a package or fix they'd love to get into the new ubuntu
* natroll has one....*cries*
<Mr_Spiff> i mean of course *buntu maintainers care about *
<natroll> ha
<tseng> you can use rotating keys with wep and 802.1x
<tseng> backended to radius
<Mr_Spiff> tseng: i believe you that wep can be secure ;)
<natroll> yeah, that again just makes it more difficult, but i've heard reports (even recently) of it being broken in less than 10 minutes using a variety of packet generation techniques
<Kyral> anyone yhat msg'd Seveas...heck I can't even talk
<crimsun> (yes you can, but not in there right now)
<Kyral> yah I forgot Seveas was here *red face*
<Mr_Spiff> who are mdz, seveas and sabdfl? 
<Kyral> sabdfl == Mark Shuttleworth
<crimsun> Mr_Spiff: /whois them
<crimsun> all of us are supposed to have contact info in our /whois
<Kyral> Is it open floor now? 
<Seveas> mdz == CTO, sabdfl == CEO, /me == CIO
<Mr_Spiff> ty
<Mr_Spiff> what's "TB"
<crimsun> technical board
<hub> hello world
<hub> mdz is cto?  I didn't know
<Mr_Spiff> holy crap this meeting is hard to follow
<Kyral> Welcome to Ubuntu Meetings lol
<crimsun> it's because everyone's blurting $random
<LaserJock> oh, a meeting is on? 
<Kyral> yah the meeting to discuss the 6 week delay
<Mr_Spiff> cat /dev/urandom | ircii
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> morning all
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
<greenpenguin13> pineapple ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<Mr_Spiff> wow i'd like to see a spec meeting for dapper+1 :)
<crimsun> a.k.a.  nightmare
<Kyral> lol
<crimsun> (personally, a 6-wk delay should be considered only if no additional features -- not wpa, not n-m, etc. --  are considered)
<Mr_Spiff> yeah i gathered that, and its my first day
<Mr_Spiff> i hate the word polish thuogh
<Mr_Spiff> especially when its applied to correcting blatant programming errors
<crimsun> diction aside, having managed software projects, it is incredible that n-m is even being considered in the timespan
<natroll> i always think it say polish, as in poland
<LaserJock> and I always get confuse it with people from a certain eastern European contru ;-)
<netzmeister> wow, in ubuntu-meeting starts a party :-D
<Kyral> Actually...didn't sabdfl say he needed to go soon? 
<ajmitch> crimsun: don't worry, there are also users who say that Xgl is *the* most important feature
<Mr_Spiff> what's xgl? 
<ajmitch> crack
<Kyral> Eyecandy
<hub> crack
<hub> aixgl is eyecandy
<Mr_Spiff> google...
<Kyral> basically
<hub> :-)
<Mr_Spiff> looks sexy
<Kyral> Personally I just use XCompmgr
<hub> Kyral: not really related
<Kyral> eyecandy :P
<Amaranth> xcompmgr is buggy
<Amaranth> and doesn't use gl
<Kyral> Not as buggy as XGL
<Kyral> and doesn't require a seperate XServer...
<natroll> check out kororaa
<natroll> liveCD that uses xgl with comp
<Kyral> Didn't DW have an interview with them? 
<natroll> i dunno, but i just tried it last night and it works slick with my nvidia 6800
* Kyral shrugs
<natroll> very pretty to have a video playing between desktops while using transparency
<Mr_Spiff> why would you want a video projected on a cube? 
<natroll> no reason but to exploit the capabilities
<natroll> tbh it's all about eye candy
<Mr_Spiff> nethack-on-a-cube
<LaserJock> hmm, so is there anything we could ask for that would be helpful for a Dapper+1 that is 6 weeks shorter? 
<crimsun> it likely wouldn't be 6 weeks shorter
<crimsun> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary)
<LaserJock> that is what they are leaning towards right now? 
<ajmitch> who knows? 
<LaserJock> I was just trying to think about things (especially in LP) that might streamline our work
<natroll> LaserJock, sick days and lots of coffee? 
<LaserJock> lol
<Mr_Spiff> what's the CC? 
<natroll> whats CC? 
<crimsun> community council
<natroll> TB = technical board, ahhhh
<Mr_Spiff> users group? 
<crimsun> please see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes
* ajmitch notices we've got some meeting overflow into here this morning. 
<crimsun> (scroll to the bottom)
<natroll> CC = Communist Comrades? ;-) 
<Mr_Spiff> ty crimsun
<hub> what will be the name of dapper + 1? 
<hub> just curious
<natroll> Edgy Echidna
<natroll> i dunno
<natroll> someone said Edgy Elephant
<LaserJock> I didn't think that has been decided yet
<natroll> I thought Early Echidna would be funny
<natroll> it's anything but early
<minghua> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<ajmitch> hi minghua
<natroll> hi LingHock
<minghua> LaserJock and ajmitch: I am going to apply for MOTU on today's TB meeting, will you show up and give me some support? :-) 
<ajmitch> minghua: when is the meeting? 
<ajmitch> ah, just under an hour
<minghua> ajmitch: 20:00 UTC
* ajmitch should be able to make it
<minghua> yes, in one hour
<natroll> what time did this meeting start? 
<ajmitch> current meeting started at 18:00 UTC
<ajmitch> minghua: I suppose you've done enough by now for MOTU :)
<natroll> ummm, what time is it now UTC? 
<ajmitch> Tue Mar 14 19:07:40 UTC 2006
<minghua> ajmitch: thanks, hope the TB feels the same way :-)
<crimsun> minghua: good use of emphasis on your wiki page
<crimsun> that should help speed some questions regarding Debian & Ubuntu work
<minghua> crimsun: I should thank another MOTU for the emphasis, he suggested it, but I can't remember who that is now :-(
<LaserJock> minghua: unfortunately I can't make it
<LaserJock> minghua: I have to take a prospective grad student to lunch today
<minghua> LaserJock: no problem
<crimsun> I've uploaded packages; I can be present
<LaserJock> well, it really stinks cause I think raphink is going to try for core-dev today
<minghua> crimsun: yeah, most of my scim related uploads are through you :-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: ah yes, it's that time of the year again, heh
<ajmitch> minghua: yes, it's better to get people who've sponsored you rather than random people like me who are clueless
<minghua> ajmitch: oh sure, I just thought you've reviewed my patch before
* lucas clueless too
<minghua> ajmitch: but if you can't evaluate my work, I of course won't insist
<LaserJock> minghua: I don't think you'll have much of a problem.  Thanks for the MOTUScience plug btw ;-)
<ajmitch> minghua: I've looked at some patches
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, I really think MOTUScience is an important team, although I haven't done much for it (yet) :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: well, I've been mostly doing organizational work so far.  Dapper+1 is really a chance for the team to shine so I hope you can do more then. 
<minghua> LaserJock: I hope so, too
<LaserJock> minghua: when you are a MOTU that would make 3 MOTUs for the team, which should help
<LaserJock> minghua: btw, I dropped the tex section in favor of electronics for the MOTU Science package list
<LaserJock> minghua: and then I added a misc list with the tex packages that would be interesting for scientists and science related apps from other sections
<LaserJock> minghua: so now we have math, science, electronics, and misc
<minghua> LaserJock: ah good.   did you send a mail to our list about this change? 
<LaserJock> I will today
<LaserJock> I need to start getting people pumped up for Dapper+1
<minghua> LaserJock: I think our list needs more traffic ;-)
<LaserJock> I agree, and that is my fault
<LaserJock> I'm just not much of an emailer.  I prefer this channel for all my communication ;-)
<LaserJock> minghua: I also got a LP admin to add the motuscience LP team to the initial bug contact list for all the packages (419 total)
<netzmeister> re
<minghua> LaserJock: oh, okay.   I assume I don't need to worry about low list traffic from now on, then...
<ajmitch> great, I've got *some* of the new computer parts I need
<LaserJock> minghua: actually, I haven't seen that many bugs for the science related packages.  I think that is another thing to work on
<LaserJock> minghua: I don't think they are getting tested very much
<LaserJock> minghua: I was thinking of posting something on the forums to get people to test packages for the Bug Day
<LaserJock> bbl
<crimsun> you need people to use them (high school, college/university) first
<LaserJock> crimsun: honestly we need people to file bugs and not just go "oh well, guess I'll try something else"
<minghua> LaserJock: I agree, they definitely aren't tested enough
<minghua> or not reported as you said
<crimsun> it's unfortunate that many people will just shrug and move on
<LaserJock> but I think if I call for some testing and give some wiki pages for bug reporting it might help at least
<LaserJock> especially if I say that we will try to address them
<minghua> ok, I've updated my wiki page to add the recent work
<natroll> so should I be creating any new packages in dapper? 
<crimsun> yes, though keep in mind it'll be easier to target them for dapper+1
<natroll> crimsun, which would change my package creation how? ( sorry, I just don't know)
<crimsun> natroll: it wouldn't
<crimsun> natroll: aside from the simple adjustment in debian/changelog
<natroll> crimsun, ok, i'll be back in a bit with my piece of ju...errr package ;D
<natroll> maybe i should be hittin up you guys, i can't download from http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/
<ajmitch> why do you think we'd be able to do anything? :) 
<natroll> you guys can upload?  :D
<ajmitch> and? 
<natroll> maybe it's syncing? 
<crimsun> what are you trying to download? 
<ajmitch> uploads are done to a different server, processed through launchpad
<natroll> http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.gz
<crimsun> (use a.u.c)
<ajmitch> & what problems do you get? 
<natroll> download won't start
<Nafallo> I can wget it fine. 
<natroll> first dist-upgrade failed
<ajmitch> sounds more like a network problem on your end, if the rest of us can get it fine
<natroll> then downloading the individual package through firefox failed to start
<ajmitch> hello Nafallo ! 
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hi there :-)
<natroll> heh, i just did two upgrades from the same mirror today
<ajmitch> Nafallo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/+bug/5164
<Ubugtu> malone bug 5164 in f-spot "F-Spot crashes on startup after photos.db is created" [Normal,Needs info] 
<bddebian> Do we have a wiki page on creating a Repo?   Not LocalAptRepo but a full blown repo?? 
<ajmitch> Nafallo: give me info! 
<ajmitch> Nafallo: if it's not already fixed I suspect it will be with the next upload once I finish migration code :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hmm, right now it doesn't even start :-P. -mono :-)
<ajmitch> explain
<natroll> hrm, now it's working...
<Nafallo> yea, it was probably syncing...
<Nafallo> try multiple times before asking please :-)
<natroll> i did, just not with a period of waiting between it.....now it's flaking out and download has ground to a halt
<natroll> my network connection is bein flaky, i'll be back in a bit
<crimsun> congrats raphink :)
<minghua> yeah, congrats raphink
<raphink> thanks :)
<Gloubiboulga> bravo raphink ;)
<raphink> hehe :)
<dolzzzon> congrats raphink
<dolzzzon> I'm still catching up in the logs
<dolson> cripes, people can't read
<nlindblad> evening masters! 
<dolson> hi nlindblad
<Nafallo> why isn't libogre5c2a in the dapper archives? 
<Mithrandir> hiya Nafallo
<lfittl> Nafallo: it could be in binary NEW
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: hi there! * hug*
<Nafallo> lfittl: yea, my thought aswell. 
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: long time no see, you've been busy? 
<crimsun> congrats minghua
<dolson> congrats minghua :)
<minghua> thanks crimsun and dolson! 
* crimsun scurries off to a department meeting
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: yea, new work and stuff like that.  now I'm sick, so finally some quality IRC-time ;-). 
<Mithrandir> haha. :-) 
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: how's gothcat? 
<Nafallo> sick aswell ;-)
<Mithrandir> oh well, apart from that? 
<ajmitch> minghua: ah sorry I wasn't there to support you, was on phone :) welcome anyway
<minghua> ajmitch: no problem, and thanks :-)
<Spec> How went the second meeting? 
<slomo> Spec: what do you mean? 
<Kyral> The second meeting to discuss the delay for Dapper
<Spec> I attended the 4 am one
<Spec> When can we expect a final decision? 
<Kyral> yah, sabdfl held another one at 1 PM EST
<Kyral> for us who DON'T want to wakeup early
<dolson> or those of us who go to bed late
<Kyral> that too
<dolson> wait, that makes no sense for me
<Kyral> lol
<Spec> Kyral: what?  wake up? 
<dolson> lol, I stayed up through the night
<Spec> :p
<dholbach> good night guys
<dolson> nn dholbach
<Kyral> night dholbach
<Spec> i stayed up the night before, so i couldn't do two nights awake in a row
<Spec> so i slept all day today :p
<slomo> gn8 dholbach
<LaserJock> ok, what did I miss? 
<ajmitch> not a lot
<Tonio_> little question
<ajmitch> just a lot of talk :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh and minghua is a MOTU
<Tonio_> is ubuntu making usage of networkmanager by default actually ? 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how did raphink do? 
* ajmitch can't recall, was on phone at the time
<LaserJock> I'll have to go check the logs
<LaserJock> congrats minghua!  That is awesome
<ajmitch> ah, he was approved
<dolson> IIRC, raphink was approved
<LaserJock> nice
<LaserJock> congrats raphink! 
<raphink> thanks LaserJock:)
<raphink> :D
<minghua> LaserJock: thanks
<Spec> oo, oo, i wanna be a member, pick me!  pick me!  :p
<mister_spiff> what is dd
<Spec> d-day?  man dd? 
<bddebian> Debian Developer? 
<mister_spiff> ohhh
<Kyral> Time to test Espresso
<minghua> Ahh, #ubuntu-meeting is locked now, nice move
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> what happened? 
<minghua> just random clueless people coming in and ask about the delay, I suppose
<minghua> you'll have to ask Seveas about that
<minghua> Seveas did wonderful police work during the TB meeting BTW :-)
<Kyral> lol as he did during the second "Delay Meeting"
<Kyral> Espresso in progress
<Kyral> *takes notes on things so he can file bug reports or wishlist reports*
<mister_spiff> whats espresso? 
<Kyral> The LiveCD Installer
<Kyral> wait, what is the status of the feature freeze right now? 
<crimsun> "yes, FF is still in effect"
<Kyral> dangit
<Kyral> I had a suggestion for Espresso
<crimsun> (that doesn't mean you can't make one)
<Kyral> good point
<Kyral> I'll file them in LP once I'm out of the Live system
<Spec> How is Espresso? 
<Spec> Does it support automagic resizing of ntfs partitions? 
<Kyral> Didn't try as I don't have a NTFS partition handy
<Spec> that's a good thing ^.^
* minghua wonders what do the translations of espresso look like
<Kyral> I was thinking that if Espresso detects a live Net conn, it should allow you to select which -desktop package to install
<Kyral> here goes nothing...REBOOT! 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-12
<shawarma> jdong: Heh. 
<crimsun> jdong: did anyone using xinerama test your debs? 
<jdong> crimsun: xinerama is a lost cause in the updated version unfortunately
<jdong> crimsun: I couldn't port it over or find any evidence the Suse has updated diff for that either :-/
<jdong> crimsun: it's a pretty small loss though... xinerama AND Xgl is a minor fraction of Xgl users
<jdong> better than not having any Xgl in the first place. 
<crimsun> what's the situation with xserver-xgl?  Who _must_ use it? 
<crimsun> for compiz/beryl, that is
<jdong> crimsun: every fglrx user, and nvidia-legacy user
<jdong> crimsun: and those using GeForce4's get smoother rendering on Xgl too
<jdong> so many of those guys choose to use it
<crimsun> dang, I was just going to suggest a binary removal
<jdong> crimsun: if it's not in Ubuntu repos, it will start showing up in more misshapen fashions in 3rd party ones. 
<jdong> crimsun: we can go that route but I think it's uglier :)
<crimsun> doesn't it exist already in trevino's or whonot's? 
<jdong> well beryl repos has a patched-up Edgy version in their Edgy repos
<jdong> (that adds the 0ubuntu2 patch for faster rendering)
<jdong> but nothing has been done in Feisty et
<jdong> their decision will depend on if an official package is put in Feisty. 
<crimsun> sick.  Just sick. 
<jdong> I have yet to hear of any report of the new version not working for anyone that's tried it
<jdong> and between the bug and the forum thread, there's a good 20 acks that it works
<jdong> *sigh* hopefulyl come this time feisty+1 we'll have something better to offer ATI users....
<crimsun> I'm like halfway through GL/mesa/glapi/glapitemp.h
<jdong> I'm sorry, crimsun :(
<shawarma> Amaranth: around? 
<Amaranth> shawarma: for a little bit
<shawarma> Amaranth: I remember you were porting stuff from beryl to compiz, right? 
<shawarma> Amaranth: did you ever look at the window preview plugin? 
<Amaranth> shawarma: it's a big hack, needs stupid core changes
<Amaranth> gtg
<shawarma> bugger
<keescook> if my mplayer uploads broke a/v sync, I'm going to be seriously shocked.   each upload was a 1 line change in the DMO and DS loaders.   :)
<Fujitsu> Hi keescook. 
<keescook> hiya Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> (please do remember to use bzr in future, or things get lost)
<Fujitsu> There really should be a more obvious way to tell if something's in bzr. 
<shawarma> stgraber: you should set bugs to "fix committed" until you actually see the packages on archive.ubuntu.com. 
<keescook> oh!   whoops, sorry
<shawarma> Fujitsu: It's on its way. 
<shawarma> Fujitsu: There's talk on the ml about a X-Version-Control thing in debian/control
<shawarma> Fujitsu: ...or something like that. 
<Fujitsu> XS-Vcs-Bzr? 
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Yes, that's the on.e
<Fujitsu> That's not exactly obvious (and mplayer has it now)
<shawarma> I don't see how it could be any more obvious, really. 
<shawarma> We just need to get used to checking for it.  
<Fujitsu> Well, I was thinking that LP could reject the upload if it could see it was in bzr, but the changes in the new version weren't. 
<Fujitsu> It's meant to be getting the intelligence to be able to do that soon, I believe. 
<shawarma> Yes, that's what the NoMoreSourcePackages spec is essentially about, isn't it? 
<Fujitsu> (working out which revision corresponds to which source package version, and stuff)
<Fujitsu> Well, sort of.  That spec is taking it to another level. 
<jdong> booga suga pusha. 
<illovae> hello
<Nafallo> I have an ugly workaround on the go... ;-)
<jdong> Nafallo: I saw ugly workaround and ego when I first read that :D
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> lol
<jdong> Oh vista does think it's 26 ***es in between my thighs
<jdong> CRAP WRONG CHANNEL
<jdong> please ignore that. 
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> *asg*
<Nafallo> oops.  ROTFL in swedish :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: long story :)
<jdong> Nafallo: an interesting investigation on why a rap song has two wildly different lyric interpretations.....
<jdong> Nafallo: in case you were curious, the alternate interpretation was "26 inches in between my TIRES"
<Nafallo> ;-)
<jdong> vista speech recognition is the judge. 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian. 
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<nixternal> boo
<RAOF> Hey bddebian. 
<Fujitsu> Hi nixternal. 
<bddebian> ahh
<bddebian> Hello RAOF
<nixternal> well hello there :)
<bddebian> Rockin' place tonight :-)
<jdong> I think I creeped everyone away
<jdong> by my accidental message in here
<bddebian> heh
<zul> jdong: too late for that :)
<bddebian> I thought I was the only one that did that? 
<jdong> bddebian: I was pretty awful
<jdong> bddebian: find channel logs ;-)
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> good work jdong ;-)
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
* jdong is so embarrassed
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<zul> hey LaserJock 
<LaserJock> man, jdong really did kill the conversation ;-)
* jdong cries a bit
<jdong> laserJock: and it's a totally honest misunderstanding of lyrics you insensitive clod ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: after what he said, most people probably ran off into another channel
<LaserJock> poor jdong 
<jdong> waah
<ajmitch> why poor? 
<LaserJock> I hate it when I do something stupid in a public channel
<jdong> and this channel
<jdong> it gets stored
<jdong> forever. 
<ajmitch> and gets good google rankings
<LaserJock> I did a stupid in -devel once so don't feel too bad
<LaserJock> although not quite of the genre
<LaserJock> that
<ajmitch> it'd be hard to top what jdong does
<jdong> heh yeah I don't think anyone tops that :(
* jdong smacks himself
* LaserJock imagines jdong's MOTU application ;-)
<jdong> lol
<jdong> "I am an expert in hip-hop lyrics.... and submitting 10MB debdiffs...."
* jdong hits reject on his own application :)
<ajmitch> jdong: don't worry, I'd be one of the ones approving your application
<jdong> :)
<jdong> well, I've learned to look before I type. 
<jdong> (I hope)
<LaserJock> jdong: well, it could have been worse, you could have blogged it on planet ;-)
<zul> ouch..
<jdong> *shudder*
<ajmitch> that would have been entertaining
<zul> "How to shoot your mouth off and make friends while doing it"
<LaserJock> oh, I saw a thing on Hans Reiser on the local news like last night
<ajmitch> oh? 
<LaserJock> must of been like an arraignment hearing
<LaserJock> his lawyer was talking about how the charges were completely absurd, blah blah
<ajmitch> nothing interesting then
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> it was just weird seeing it on the news
<jdong> laserJock: he can stand trial, that's the gist I got. 
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's about it, yes. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: was it in your area? 
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> we get one channel from the San Fransisco area
<LaserJock> it's actually 4-5 hrs drive away
<LaserJock> !! 
<Fujitsu> ? 
<LaserJock> my FF email is on lwn
<Fujitsu> Link? 
<LaserJock> http://lwn.net/Articles/224001/
<LaserJock> how weird
<Fujitsu> Heh. 
<Fujitsu> I saw that a week or so ago. 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you're famous
<ajmitch> unlike the rest of us peons
<LaserJock> you just need to get stuck writing all the emails
<LaserJock> that's what you get for "delegating" ;-)
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> and I don't blog
<ajmitch> so noone knows about me :)
<LaserJock> isn't that handy
<ajmitch> quite
<Fujitsu> I don't even have a website! 
<LaserJock> so umm, my laptop's time didn't change
<Fujitsu> It's nice being a nobody. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: OS X? 
<LaserJock> Feisty
<LaserJock> my desktop seems right
* ajmitch doesn't really have a website either
<LaserJock> and the laptop says it's PDT, which I think is right
<LaserJock> but the time itself didn't change
* ajmitch wonders when daylight savings ends here
<LaserJock> ok, I think it just didn't do it's NTP update yet
<LaserJock> I did a manual NTP update and it's fine now
<ajmitch> shouldn't need to use ntp
<ajmitch> great, NZDT ends next sunday
<ajmitch> 1 extra hour of sleep
* LaserJock makes a petition to just use UTC
<Fujitsu> +1 LaserJock
<Lathiat> ours ends next week also
<ajmitch> yes, using UTC would work so well throughout the world
<TheMuso> bug 88908
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88908 in murrine "[UVFe]  update to 0.51" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88908
<rexbron> hey ajmitch, would you look at bug 88908.  I need another ack for an UFV exception
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88908 in murrine "[UVFe]  update to 0.51" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88908
<rexbron> or slomo_ or siretart, if you are online and have a second
<rexbron> see ^
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> just to confirm.  are bzr builddeb broken? 
<Fujitsu> I couldn't use it, so I presume so. 
<lifeless> ECHANNEL surely :)
<Nafallo> lifeless: I want to bzr builddeb -e on mplayer, so no ;-)
<lifeless> no, I think you do - #bzr is where builddeb plugin discussion happens
<Nafallo> hehe, oki :-)
<LaserJock> lifeless: how would be know that :-)
<lifeless> 'bzr'
<Nafallo> it's 4:11 here, and I chat with a nice girl, so not now anyway :-)
<LaserJock> I assumed that it was an independent project
<LaserJock> so not really that on-topic for #bzr
<lifeless> LaserJock: well, its a plugin, but entirely ontopic
<lifeless> just like bzr shelve, bzr baz-import, bzr git support, bzr hg support etc etc etc
* Hobbsee o.O
* RAOF |-:? 
<Hobbsee> @ planet ubuntu
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee ;-)
<Hobbsee> heya LaserJock! 
* Hobbsee is now going to have to blog again, dammit. 
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee. 
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso - seen planet? 
<TheMuso> Just refreshing my RSS reader now. 
<TheMuso> Or do you mean \sh_away's comment? 
<Hobbsee> yes
<TheMuso> Well... Um, I dunno. 
<jdong> WHOA. 
<jdong> just read planet
<jdong> I feel BETTEr now
<Hobbsee> haha
<jdong> Hobbsee: oh dear did you see that? 
<jdong> (what I did)
* jdong goes live in a cave
<Hobbsee> jdong: nope, but please continue to make me laugh :)
<jdong> <jdong> Oh vista does think it's 26 ***es in between my thighs
<jdong>  CRAP WRONG CHANNEL
<jdong>  please ignore that. 
<jdong> in this channel. 
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<Hobbsee> oops :P
* jdong headdesks in shame
<LaserJock> jdong: again? ;-) 
<jdong> laserJock: lol
<jdong> wow
<jdong> is that what Beryl does to you? 
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
<asantoni> lol, jdong, it's ok... two weeks ago I kept trying to copy and paste across a VNC session, and it resulted in me sharing my whole week's TODO list with 150 people in an IRC channel. 
<asantoni> good times
<Hobbsee> ...ouch
<jdong> :)
<asantoni> :)
<jdong> I still think analyzing dirty rap lyrics is worse :)
<jdong> especially when you totally misunderstand them :D
<asantoni> haha
<asantoni> :D
<jdong> and I'm a klutz at doing that :(
<jdong> I have too many windows open....
<jdong> I'd get a friend asking me the next day "WTF IS A SYNC REQUEST"
<LaserJock> hmm, now I know why I don't do TODO lists or listen to rap ;-)
<jdong> lol
<jdong> good excuse
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure you do :)
* imbrandon perks up
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon, what are you perkign over? 
<imbrandon> nothing, just walked in after a night at the pub
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hows it going Hobbsee ? 
<imbrandon> ( and everyone )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: seen planet yet?   :P
<jdong> imbrandon: sexy. 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea i seen it, i felt about the same way as daniel stone
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee is still amused
<imbrandon> then again ther is a language barier, but still, thats just bad taste
<jdong> it might be too late at night
<imbrandon> as long as people dont discuourage you from doing what you want to do ( and i think personaly your strong willed enough not to let them ) then its all good
<jdong> but I didn't totally comprehend what he was trying to say....
<jdong> it sounds more drunken tirade-ish
<imbrandon> jdong, he isnt native english so some things dont come accross as they should BUT her mentions he intended to be policticly incorrect sooooo.....
<imbrandon> s/her/he
<imbrandon> like i said night at the pub, nice typo's ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm going to respond back, but i'm thinking of waiting till zerlinna wakes up
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you stay away from that pub :P
<TheMuso> Heya imbrandon. 
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso 
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, please go easy though, maybe even ummm i dunno, just try not to start a gurl/guy war unless nessesary ;)
<imbrandon> hehehe
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: heh.   oh of course.   no point starting up a girl/guy war, mainly because there arent too many girls to back me up :P
<imbrandon> that data zerl post was kinda cool though
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, hahaha "i'm just one of the chicks" ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<imbrandon> speaking of i havent been in #ubuntu-women in a while
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I just wouldn't know what to say
<imbrandon> ( in other words , i would back you Hobbsee )
<LaserJock> my wife would probably get jelous ;-)
<Hobbsee> he
<imbrandon> hahahahaha
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee doesnt like #ubuntu-women, from a past experience
<imbrandon> LaserJock, your so seski ( /me stops now before this gets tooooooo OT )
<Hobbsee> hah
<TheMuso> imbrandon: If you have a minute, could you please do me a favour, and install libportaudio0 on sparky?  I want to do some testing with espeak, and need to make sure any endian issues are sorted out. 
<TheMuso> sorry, libportaudio-dev
<imbrandon> TheMuso, sure give me about 2 min to login
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah no hurry. 
<imbrandon> btw siretart and ajmitch both are admins on all the buildd's too incase i'm not arround
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> TheMuso, done
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Thanks heaps. 
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> just sparky or ppc and x86 too ? 
<TheMuso> no, sparky is fine.  I have ppc and x86, so can test on those. 
<imbrandon> kk
* imbrandon hugs Hobbsee ( and virtual hugs zerl too for good mesure ) in light of the inconsiderate blogpost ;)
* imbrandon now runs for the hills
<TheMuso> haha
<imbrandon> ok sooooo whats going on in MOTU land the last 48 hours?  anything interesting ? 
<imbrandon> i want sometihng MOTUish to blog about
* Hobbsee hugs imbrandon back
<Hobbsee> hehe
* TheMuso has almost completed work on a drupal 5.1 package.  So there is the php4 transition. 
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: kubuntu bug day!!! 
<Hobbsee> er, week! 
<TheMuso> imbrandon: A call to let us know if there are any apckages that need php love? 
<imbrandon> started monday right Hobbsee ? 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, good call
<LaserJock> yeah, we should give a "shout out" for specific areas we need tested
<imbrandon> i'll give one about the php4 trans
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: er, starts today, i think
<imbrandon> but yea
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea monday started 1 minute ago for me
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> man , i love this jono song
<imbrandon> most of his stuff is "ok" but not my type of music
<imbrandon> but this song rocks
<imbrandon> ( reflections )
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you mentioned my name..
<imbrandon> yes ... ? 
<imbrandon> just stating that you could install stuff also , TheMuso seemed to have been waiting on me
<imbrandon> not that i mind, just letting him know
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Well, I wasn't in a hurry, and I didn't know if ajmitch was around. 
<TheMuso> And it came to mind when you were, so there. :) 
* ajmitch wasn't :)
<imbrandon> true true ;)
<imbrandon> man alcohol makes you sleepy
<imbrandon> err ... yea
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> don't make me thirsty
<TheMuso> haha
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i just returned fromt he pub ajmitch 
<imbrandon> the*
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> damnit
<TheMuso> hahaha
* ajmitch just returned from work
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Heya dholbach. 
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach! 
<dholbach> hey TheMuso, hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey andrew
<LaserJock> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
* Hobbsee attempts to formulate a reply to planet
<ajmitch> hehe
<Hobbsee> i mean, i know more or less waht i want to say, but i hate trying to phrase it
<ajmitch> "DIE DIE DIE"? 
<ajmitch> ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> "Men stink!"  as my wife might say ;-)
<TheMuso> haha
<ajmitch> zomg you mean I can actually meet girls on the intarweb?! 
* Hobbsee wonders how one spells eloquent
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> I think you spelt it correctly :)
<Hobbsee> right
<jdong> Hobbsee: you spelled that eloquently. 
<jdong> Hobbsee: and our GTK IRC clients have spellcheck. 
* jdong ducks
<Hobbsee> so does wordpress, i forgot
<ajmitch> you haven't caused enough havoc around here today, jdong ? 
<jdong> ajmitch: I love you too. 
<ajmitch> :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> jdong needs a braincheck
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<jdong> laserJock: tried that; I just see red squiggles everywherer
<Hobbsee> there :)
<jdong> oh look at this! " You are trying to write a smartass comment that nobody  will find funny.  Allow or Deny?" 
<ajmitch> lovely title of the blog post, Hobbsee ;)
<ajmitch> well put
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: *grin*
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i've forgotten waht the old one was, though...
<ajmitch> old one? 
<Hobbsee> the bitchy psycopath, was it? 
<Hobbsee> or the pyscopathic bithc
<Hobbsee> or the pyscopathic bitch
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> I think this one can be a bit more complimentary :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, i think so too
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Great post./
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: thanks!   :D
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: What is this "brain" you speak of? 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee stole mine
* LaserJock plays keep-away with Hobbsee 
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You have a brain? 
* Fujitsu is shocked. 
<ajmitch> harsh
<Fujitsu> I thought you'd been zombie-packaging. 
<Amaranth> I had mine removed to make room for a faster graphics card
<Amaranth> oooh, shiny! 
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Now that's a good idea!  We should all do that, run Beryl, and crash. 
<Amaranth> if you run compiz instead you last 0.2 seconds longer before you crash
<LaserJock> I don't know
<Fujitsu> And that makes all the difference. 
<LaserJock> you put in the wrong chemicals and you get wobbly windows and throw up
<Fujitsu> Heh. 
* Hobbsee --> afk for a while
* TheMuso decides to remove some brain to put in a more powerful audio system.  After all, we only use about 5% of our brain if I remember correctly. 
<Amaranth> If you'd kept the other bits you wouldn't worry about remembering the answer
<TheMuso> ROFL
<cbx33> hi all...
<cbx33> just written my first c++ program
<cbx33> how do i go about packaging it
<cbx33> like automake and the like 
<cbx33> does automake produce confiugre? 
<dholbach> http://openismus.com/documents/linux/automake/automake.shtml
<cbx33> thanks dholbach 
<cbx33> you rock
<dholbach> de rien :)
<dholbach> thanks
<nixternal> cbx33: rm -rf *.cpp
<nixternal> ;p
<cbx33> oi
<LaserJock> pete pete
<nixternal> haha
<cbx33> LaserJock, is that a don;t go
<cbx33> I know you love me man
<cbx33> ;)
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<LaserJock> gimme a few hours to sleep ( I *do* do that) and I can help you
<cbx33> LaserJock, wow relaly? 
<cbx33> you have time? 
<cbx33> ok cool ping me gmail style when you are awake
<LaserJock> for you, alway ;-)
<LaserJock> *always
* cbx33 hugs LaserJock 
<nixternal> hey, you two take it elsewhere
<cbx33> thanks dude
* cbx33 hugs nixternal too
* nixternal faints
<cbx33> quick LaserJock 
<LaserJock> well, I know it's the only way I'll get you to make a decent tarball out of it
<nixternal> oh lord
<nixternal> hahahaha
<cbx33> our plan worked lets steal his wallet and his identity
<nixternal> I fainted and got owned
<nixternal> cbx33: dont' even have a dollar in it, and you can have my identity, and the debt that goes with it
<cbx33> LaserJock, oi! 
* cbx33 runs a mile
<cbx33> had enough debt to last me for a while
<nixternal> hehe
<cbx33> right I'm off to work guys
<cbx33> thanks LaserJock 
<cbx33> soeak to you soon
<cbx33> s\soeak/speak
<cbx33> s/\//
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> later all
<nixternal> heh
<TheMuso> dholbach: I assume that applies to any C/C++ project, re automake etc? 
<crimsun> you can actually use it with langs other than C and C++, too
<LaserJock> ok, I'm outta here
<dholbach> TheMuso: yeah
<crimsun> it's just...well, interesting
<TheMuso> crimsun: Yeah I know. 
<man-di> TheMuso: automake has e.g. Java support (a very bad one...but it has)
<zakame> afternoon all :D
<Fujitsu> Hi zakame. 
<Fujitsu> man-di: You were wondering about motujava, weren't you? 
<man-di> Hello zakame 
<man-di> Fujitsu: right
<man-di> zakame: motujava is ... inactive? 
<zakame> yo man-di!  :D nice seeing you here
<zakame> yes, sadly :/
<zakame> yo Fujitsu
<man-di> zakame: my plan would be to revive it and merge it Deban Java Maintainers
<zakame> ooh!   that would be nice indeed
<man-di> s/it/it with/
<man-di> zakame: thats the only way it makes sense to me
<man-di> on the long run
<man-di> and to solve some issues we have in Debian....
<man-di> like manpower
<zakame> sure, that would be good :D  I want to learn more about Java too and help out eventually
<man-di> but motujava seem to have the same problem
<man-di> many people not doing anything ;-)
<zakame> yeah, actually I've received mails from the people listed on the motujava list on how they could help out
<man-di> zakame: the first thing I wanna do is to merge all java packags for feisty+1 and etch+1
<man-di> zakame: bug have someone actually did something? 
<man-di> s/bug/but/
<zakame> not really :/
<man-di> btw: mail about pp2 is nearly done
<man-di> zakame: sorry for the delay
<zakame> yay!  can't wait for it :D
* zakame looks for ideas for SoC
* Fujitsu notes the evil over-18 restriction. 
<man-di> zakame: I would have one, maven2 packaging ;-)
<zakame> man-di: hmm... that's something... my cousin is an active maven contributor so I could probably get some tips from her about packaging it :D
<zakame> Fujitsu: what over-18 restriction? 
<zakame> ah, http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=60278&topic=10730
<Fujitsu> Ja. 
<zakame> Fujitsu: not 18 yet? 
<Fujitsu> I'm not even 16. 
<zakame> whoa I actually thought you're older than me :D
<Fujitsu> Interesting. 
<man-di> zakame: just joking, I'm actively working on packaging it, but its a total mess.  it needs itself to build from source
<zakame> man-di: needs itself? 
<man-di> you need maven to build maven from source
<man-di> its a hen-egg bootstrapping problem
<man-di> like you need a C compiler to build your initial C compiler for a new architecture
<zakame> ah
<man-di> totally horrible
<zakame> can't there be something like a minimal maven-builder package that has the bits for a full maven to be built? 
<zakame> or would that involve upstream redesigning the build process, if ever? 
<man-di> zakame: that is how I do
<man-di> zakame: its just a LOT of work to get everything right
<zakame> indeed :(
<ajmitch> Seveas: you are a bad, bad man
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Heheheheh. 
* ajmitch claws out his eyes
<Fujitsu> There just had to be that photo...
<hypa7ia> Sp4rKy: qucs is still busted :(
<Sp4rKy> hypa7ia: ?? 
<hypa7ia> Sp4rKy: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-motu-2006-11-22.html
<hypa7ia> you're apparently the only other person who actually tried it :)
<Sp4rKy> ok :)
<Fujitsu> What's the issue with it? 
<hypa7ia> it relies on freehdl-config
<hypa7ia> which isn't packaged or listed as a dependency
<hypa7ia> http://www.freehdl.seul.org/
<Fujitsu> How broken is it without it? 
<hypa7ia> qucs is a circuit sim
<hypa7ia> without freehdl it can't actually simulate circuits :)
<hypa7ia> it can make pretty drawings of them though! 
<hypa7ia> but not actually run them
<Fujitsu> Ah. 
<hypa7ia> ktechlab seems to work though
<Q-FUNK> "The French parliament has chosen Ubuntu for all the Members of Parliament computer (and assistants).  Linagora and Unilog will provide support for those 577 'political' computers." 
<Q-FUNK> hurray! 
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: Yup. 
<Q-FUNK> now, if only we could get the finnish one to do that...
<tepsipakki> Q-FUNK: good luck ;)
<Q-FUNK> tepsipakki: I, for one, welcome our new klingon MP
<StevenK> imbrandon: Damn it, install on xauth on *.ubuntuwire.com so -X actually works. 
<StevenK> s/install on/install/
<jaalto> imbrandon, can you check if my GPG key got updated to REVU keyring 
<jaalto> imbrandon, keyid 955A92D8
<crimsun> I can just resync it
<crimsun> presuming you've already joined the correct LP team
<jaalto> crimsum, that'd be great.  I've joined the ubuntu-universe-contributors and intended to upload a *.deb, but imbrandom notified that the key must be synched first.  Could you see to it? 
<crimsun> sync running
<crimsun> sync complete
<jaalto> crimsum, thanks.  Btw, do you know if Ubuntu lists has been registered to gmane.org as well (NNTP news gateway)? 
<zul> yes hey have
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jaalto> zul, Thanks.  found the.  Do you know what is the gmane equivalent for  motu-reviewers@tauware.de?  I didn't see it at first glance (Can I "PASTE" somewhere)
<zul> it might not be subscribed
<jaalto> zul, the only MOTU related list I saw was gmane.linux.ubuntu.bugs.universe
<jaalto> Hm, I'll file requests to Gmane
<jaalto> crimsum, I uploaded truecrypt-installed to REVU.  Following the REVU wiki and logging in to revu.tauware.de with my EMAIL + "recover" returns an encrypted message.  This however does not contain the announced password, only word "None".  Does this mean that the package has not yet arrived to queue? 
<jaalto> s/truecrypt-installed/truecrypt-installer/
<Seveas> ajmitch, ? 
<bddebian> Isn't there a C for dummies channel somewhere on here? 
<jdong> bddebian: you mean I'm in the wrong room? 
<bddebian> No I'm struggling with a multi-dimensional char array issue
<jdong> bddebian: just overallocate and everything will be fine.  Vista did it and it's working out for them...
* jdong ducks
<bigon> siretart: are you there? 
<shawarma> imbrandon: Can you install python-fuse on sparky, please? 
<Adri2000> pochu: gaim-extendedprefs 0.5-5ubuntu1 could have been 0.5-5build1 with no maintainer change, no? 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Adri2000] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU |  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Adri2000] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html
<geser> Adri2000: according to the changelog it should be build1 and changing Maintainer wouldn't be necessary
<pochu> Adri2000: yep, you are right
<pochu> Adri2000: I didn't know, will do the next time! :) 
<pochu> Adri2000: then, there is no need to fit the new maintainer spec? 
* pochu is confused
<Adri2000> pochu: no, it's not needed for a rebuild
* LaserJock goes to stalk jdong__ 
<pochu> Adri2000: ah, ok
<pochu> thanks! 
<jdong__> LaserJock: lol
<LaserJock> "I know where you live"
<jdong> :)
<\sh> moins
<LaserJock> hi \sh 
<ScottK> Hi all. 
<LaserJock> hi ScottK 
<ScottK> Howdy LaserJock
<sacater> LaserJock: my 01welp.co.uk server has failed, please add me on jabber with sacater@gajim.org
<ajmitch> morning
<fernando> ajmitch: moin
<LaserJock> hola ajmitch 
<zul_> hey ajmitch 
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<Lutin> any clues about why bittorrent-gui depends on python-wxgtk2.6 whereas the code wants only 2.4 ? 
<ajmitch> someone switched the dependencies without looking at the code? 
<jdong> to prepare for bittorent 5.0.0 uploads
* jdong ducks
<zul> *groan*(
* jdong checks "make zul groan" off his todo list
<Lutin> weird thing is that wxgtk2.4 isn't detected when installed
<LaserJock> that's really unbelievable
<Lutin> LaserJock: all those join/part ? 
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> -devel
<LaserJock> Mithrandir: (slackware 96 -> rh 4.2 -> various newer RHs, Debian potato, woody, sid, warty, change of architecture, hoary, breezy, dapper,  edgy, feisty)
<ajmitch> ah, the upgrades
<ajmitch> yeah, I wasn't quite brave enough to do a manual switch from mandrake to debian
<LaserJock> I can't really see how we should expect users to never reinstall
<LaserJock> but it'd be awesome if they at least didn't *have* to
<ajmitch> why do you reinstall so often? 
<stgraber> usually I simply try to keep my /home and some /etc setting + dpkg -l, but for the rest I like to start with a really clean system (means without my hacks everywhere :))
<LaserJock> ajmitch: stuff doesn't work -> reinstall
<LaserJock> although lately it's more for testing
<ajmitch> crazy :)
<LaserJock> since Edgy has been out I've bounced between dapper, edgy and feisty several times
<LaserJock> on the 3 machines I run Ubuntu on
<LaserJock> however, before I landed with Ubuntu I averaged 2-3 weeks between installations
<stgraber> Usually I reinstall to check that I have the same system as any other user would have, because you can be sure after some months none of the main config file stays untouched on my computer :) and then if someone ask you something you can't explain the way to do on a "normal" ubuntu :)
<LaserJock> so a seperate /home was often used ;-)
<geser> I've installed Debian in Oct 2000 -> Debian unstable -> breezy -> dapper -> edgy
<geser> and then I triggered that XFS bug that crashed my XFS
<LaserJock> now you all are making me feel silly
<stgraber> these last weeks/months I'm trying to use a more clean system, try to use package everywhere it's possible, use an ubuntu kernel, use the generated xorg.conf, ...
<LaserJock> just because an installation doesn't last more than 6 months for me
<stgraber> On a stable system (I mean Edgy) the installation last way more than 6 months for me, but as I currently only have my server on Edgy the average reinstallation time is the space between two Herds :)
<geser> I forgot there was a reinstall when I bought my AMD64 and install the newly Debian AMD64 port than
<ajmitch> average install time is however long I've had the hardware
<ajmitch> sometimes longer if I move disks from one box to another
* ajmitch did a fresh install for moving to amd64
<LaserJock> so do you use like qemu or vmware for testing? 
* xhaker rsyncs much
<xhaker> (:
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not usually
<geser> I have still those cross-graded installation on i386, perhaps I should update it to feisty :)
<LaserJock> my issue has been, how do I know what a user's going to get if I keep my install that long? 
<ajmitch> make sure you don't do silly things when upgrading :)
<LaserJock> hmm? 
<ajmitch> debian was built around providing decent upgrades
<LaserJock> but they aren't that great, from my experience
<LaserJock> it's almost always been easier/better for me to reinstall than dist-upgrade
* ajmitch doesn't always blindly dist-upgrade, it can lead to pain
<ajmitch> I often picked a set of packages to upgrade at a time
<LaserJock> update-manager seems to work a bit better than dist-upgrading, when it works
<xhaker> i usually leave openoffice behind
<ajmitch> Lure: congrats
<Lure> ajmitch: ? 
<ajmitch> silly sabdfl forgot to CC you ;)
<Lure> ajmitch: oh, just got launchpad mail... ;-)
<LaserJock> congrats! 
<ajmitch> see launchpad.net/~lure
<Lure> ajmitch, LaserJock: thanks! 
<ajmitch> oh I see that the beta ui finally shows where we've been most active
* ajmitch misses Fooix the Wonder Toaster
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I miss the emblems most of all though
<jetsaredim> is there a mirror for cdimage?? 
<ajmitch> Lutin: what else do you have to convince the MC with to approve your application? 
<LaserJock> jetsaredim: yes, you can find them on Launchpad
<jetsaredim> LaserJock: can you be a little more specific? 
<LaserJock> jetsaredim: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors
<LaserJock> oh, maybe that's not right though
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if those are cdimage.u.c mirrors or not
<LaserJock> but you should be able to find quite a bit of stuff there
<crimsun> jetsaredim: se.archive
<crimsun> ajmitch: I'm still awaiting a response [to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-March/000039.html ] 
<jetsaredim> LaserJock: I'm actually looking for the daily images
<Lutin> crimsun: I'm still trying to write a decent answer
<crimsun> Lutin: sure. 
* ajmitch should probably reply on the thread
<LaserJock> jetsaredim: the mirror that crimsun gave you is about the only one I know of
<crimsun> (it doesn't host dailies that I know of)
<shawarma> Have any of guys ever tried writing a fuse file system? 
<LaserJock> crimsun: oh, fine then ;-)
<jetsaredim> the daily server is only xferring at like 15-20K/sec
<crimsun> jetsaredim: try a different time of day, and keep rsync
<LaserJock> rsync is the way to go for sure
<jetsaredim> what's the difference if its an iso? 
<crimsun> you only suffer the initial download once
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Heh.  I get around 330K/sec
<jetsaredim> hmm - my connection is at least 150K
<shawarma> Mine's 100Mbit. 
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Is it the i386 one? 
<jetsaredim> yea
<jetsaredim> feisty-desktop-i386.iso
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Oh, you said server, didn't you? 
<shawarma> < jetsaredim> the daily server is only xferring at like 15-20K/sec
<shawarma> :-)
<jetsaredim> right
<jetsaredim> hence me asking if there is a mirror
<jetsaredim> which there apparently isn't
<crimsun> yes, there is, but I don't know if the one here is public
<jetsaredim> "here" being? 
<crimsun> there's one at gtilib.gatech, too, but I doubt you can get there
<crimsun> here being my workplace, ncat.edu
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Yes, but there are also daily images of the server version.  I thought that was what you were after. 
<jetsaredim> crimsun: you can open the fw for me, I won't tell ;)
<crimsun> I'm not an admin, sorry. 
<jetsaredim> was a joke
<jetsaredim> shawarma: would it matter if it were the server version? 
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Probably not. 
<jetsaredim> the same server would still have the lousy throughput
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Could you test your download rate from http://linux2go.dk/feisty-desktop-i386.iso ? 
<shawarma> jetsaredim: If it's any better, just wait another half an hour and it should be done downloading.  Then you can get it from there. 
<crimsun> why don't you just grab the herd 5 and rsync? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<jetsaredim> want the livecd to test something
<LaserJock> that should be fast though
<crimsun> so grab the herd 5 desktop image and rsync against daily
<crimsun> err, daily-live
<jetsaredim> hmm
<jetsaredim> what is the server to sync against? 
<LaserJock> cdimage. 
<jetsaredim> there some instructions on that? 
<jetsaredim> I don't want to mess with the underlying install that's on the machine I'm testing though
<LaserJock> it wouldn't do anything, it's just an .iso download
<crimsun> rsync -vPz rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/current/feisty*i386.iso . 
<jetsaredim> it would just rsync in the livecd environment
<LaserJock> no, you are rsyncing the .iso file
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Did you test the bandwidth from http://linux2go.dk/feisty-desktop-i386.iso ? 
<jetsaredim> shawarma: hold on
<shawarma> jetsaredim: Mind you: There complete is not there yet.  I'm downloading it right now.  It'll be done i 21 minutes, so if you get good bw from it, you can just wait another 25 minutes and then start downloading from that. 
<shawarma> Er.. "There complete is not there yet" means "The complete file is not there yet". 
<jetsaredi1> shawarma: yea like 180K
<jetsaredi1> I can wait
<jetsaredi1> thanks a ton! 
<shawarma> np
<shawarma> jetsaredi1: I'll just ping you when it's done. 
<jetsaredi1> ok cool
<shawarma> I'm not using nearly enough bandwidth on this thing anyway. :-) 
<sistpoty> hi folks
<shawarma> greetings
<Lutin> hi
<jetsaredi1> ok - have to step afk but I'll check back in like 20 min
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi shawarma, Lutin and LaserJock
<shawarma> jetsaredi1: alright
<shawarma> geser: have you ever used fuse for anything? 
<shawarma> geser: Or are you just uploading it for fun? :) 
<sistpoty> Lure: congrats and welcome to the team :)
<Lure> sistpoty: thank you! 
<shawarma> Gawd, I hate stuff that you can only get help with on a mailing list.  Who are these people who don't live on IRC?  What's up with that? 
<LaserJock> shawarma: hmm, I wonder if they are trying to be productive or something
<LaserJock> or maybe they're playing Mao
<LaserJock> ;-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: Oh!  Lucky buggers. 
<shawarma> LaserJock: Speaking of which.. You going to Seville? 
<shawarma> LaserJock: Have you decided yet? 
<LaserJock> I haven't gotten an email yet but I'm guessing I'll go at least for part of it
<shawarma> Cool.  
<LaserJock> told my LUG I'd try to score some free CDs so now I'm obligated ;-(
<shawarma> I've got a few SoC applications flying around, so maybe that will buy me a sponsorship. :-) 
<shawarma> LaserJock: Hey, you're a student!  You should sign up, too. :-) 
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> I don't think they'd take me
<shawarma> Google or Ubuntu?  :-P
<LaserJock> either ;-)
<shawarma> Nah, you have to be > 18 years old. 
<LaserJock> but I'm not CS or even related
<shawarma> LaserJock: Doesn't matter. 
<crimsun> (remember you can mentor, too.) 
<stgraber> shawarma: yep, I've also seen that rule :(
<LaserJock> there has been some SoC talk on the Blue Obelisk (chemistry FLOSS group) mailing list
<crimsun> wow, jordan must be rolling in $ if he can just up and fly to sevilla
<LaserJock> it'd be cool to get paid to work on gchemutils
<LaserJock> crimsun: hah, hardly
<LaserJock> I don't have enough money to fly much of anywhere
<LaserJock> or drive for that matter
<shawarma> "Computer Science does not need to be your field of study in order to participate in the program." 
<geser> shawarma: the later, I've seen it fixes a critial bug and tried to get it into feisty
<LaserJock> crimsun: I just have to rely on Mark's good graces ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: lucky for some
<LaserJock> shawarma: interesting
<shawarma> geser: Ok. 
<shawarma> LaserJock: http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=60279&topic=10730
<crimsun> LaserJock: based on your statement above, you must be tight with the sabdfl
<shawarma> I really should look the URL's I post before hitting return.  I dread the day I for some reason have a goatse.cx URL in my pastebuffer and do the quick middle-click+return trick. 
<shawarma> geser: Ok.  I'm working an a fuse file system and it's acting up, so I was hoping to find someone with the magical hints. :-) 
<geser> shawarma: what problems do you have? 
<LaserJock> crimsun: not really, no.  Had breakfast with him once, that's about it :-)
<jdong> shawarma: no goatsex links in here please
<jdong> *ugh*
<jdong> I knew it didn't look right
<jdong> sorry about that. 
<shawarma> jdong: I'll try my best. 
<shawarma> jdong: That's the point. 
<crimsun> well, y'all have fun in sevilla. 
<jdong> shawarma: I thought this was a different channel... AGAIN
<jdong> shawarma: I was wondering why you're in #ubuntuforums
<shawarma> geser: Well, it may be behaviour by design... Are other users not supposed to be able to use stuff that I've mounted? 
<shawarma> jdong: !?  what? 
<shawarma> jdong: It's an imposter! 
<jdong> lol
<shawarma> either that or I've been doing to craaaazy typing. 
<jdong> shawarma: no, I thought for the 2nd time in 2 days that this room is #ubuntuforums :)
<crimsun> /dev/disk/by-uuid/58E475CEE475AEBE on /media/sda1 type fuseblk (rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,allow_other,default_permissions,blksize=4096)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I'd rather have you go :(
<jdong> shawarma: I blame it on xchat-gnome HIG. 
<imbrandon> rello all
<imbrandon> err hello
<shawarma> imbrandon: Hi! 
<shawarma> crimsun: Oh! 
<shawarma> crimsun: Double oh! 
<ajmitch> jdong: hi imbrandon 
<crimsun> (that corresponds to this fstab(5):  UUID=58E475CEE475AEBE /media/sda1     ntfs-3g    silent,umask=007,locale=en_US.UTF-8,gid=46 0 )
* ajmitch is too poor to go to seville
<shawarma> crimsun: I wonder what "allow_other" does.... 
<jdong> imbrandon: hi ajmitch
<crimsun> err, ommited the trailing '1'
<ajmitch> jdong: yeah ok..
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon and ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty, what's up? 
<LaserJock> hmm, I'd think you'd need to be a decent programmer to be a SOC mentor
<sistpoty> ajmitch: well, I've finally got beer at home again :)
<ajmitch> yay! :) 
<imbrandon> ello sistpoty 
* ajmitch wonders if he should vote on that kde thing
<illovae> hello
<sistpoty> ajmitch: just had an idea today... do you think it might make sense (in case ubuntu-archive allows) to remove kde4 binary stuff before release?  that way it would get autobuilt and could easily be taken to another repo, but we wouldn't have to deal with it for SRUs
<jdong> sistpoty: apparently soyuz can't remove binaries...
<jdong> at least the last time I've asked
<sistpoty> jdong: that would be very suboptimal :/
<crimsun> sistpoty: that would defeat the purpose of having those snaps, I think
<ajmitch> sistpoty: a cheap hack to work around the lack of PPAs? 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yes
<crimsun> at least from what I gather, the most compelling reason to have snaps in the archive is to make binaries available to early testers
<sistpoty> crimsun: well, I don't see the purpose to have them in feisty, if they wouldn't get supported after release... but maybe I'm missing on s.th.  here
<sistpoty> crimsun: we could have new binaries in there for feisty+1? 
<ajmitch> there may even be actual (alpha/beta) releases by then
<ajmitch> sistpoty: the point is, it shouldn't be the MOTUs needing to support them by SRUs
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, fully agreed
<crimsun> I suspect binaries of updated snaps would be hosted on kubuntu.org
<crimsun> [which would nearly obviate a set being in feisty IMO] 
<ajmitch> sistpoty: we'd probably just ignore them like we ignore most of the kde stuff in universe anyway :)
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch isn't completely opposed to the idea
<ajmitch> I just don't see much use in having a snapshot in a released distro
<sistpoty> maybe we should ask Riddell about that? 
<ajmitch> I mean, with things like imbrandon's build farm, there's not much of an obstacle to building packages for multiple distros
<ajmitch> imbrandon: maybe you could setup stuff like wanna-build on there & be able to upload via ftp & have stuff autobuilt :)
<sistpoty> *that* would definitely rock! 
<LaserJock> or get PPA going
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> which will happen first? 
<sistpoty> we can make bets ;)
<ajmitch> even so, it'd be useful
<LaserJock> well, I think PPA will be available for Feisty+1
<ajmitch> you could have it autobuild stuff for dapper, edgy
<ajmitch> hm
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea thats my project for this week
<ajmitch> oh suck, you don't have your boxes setup with LVM
<imbrandon> and also have it wanna build against all the arches
<ajmitch> that's what I was suggesting
<ajmitch> autobuild against all arches
<imbrandon> yea
* ajmitch was just going to look at sbuild+lvm on aurora
<ajmitch> I guess I could do LVM on loopback
<imbrandon> i'm actualy sitting about 10 feet from the rack, i have no problems redoing them if wer need to change soem things
<imbrandon> or soemthing like that
<ajmitch> putting everything on LVM & leaving several GB unallocated would be great
<imbrandon> also if you notice the mirror is going to be run of /mirror ( its a single 250gb sata drive i added last weeek ) on aurora
<ajmitch> yeah I saw
<ajmitch> maybe you could just turn that one into LVM
<imbrandon> i havent changed the hostname yet or setup apache yet opn that ip
<imbrandon> but i'll do that later today
<imbrandon> that way the mirror is on the same box as the build network
* ajmitch installs the lvm tools on aurora
<sistpoty> damn... seems like I can't apologize with "I don't have access to that arch" now in bugreports any longer *g*
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs. 
<imbrandon> lol sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi TheMuso
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
<imbrandon> lo TheMuso 
<crimsun> ajmitch: / sistpoty: how do you guys feel about MC sponsoring for Sevilla?  =)
<ajmitch> crimsun: it'd be great, but what do you think the chances would be? 
<sistpoty> crimsun: sounds great!  however for 99% I won't have time to come :(
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 10737418240 bytes (11 GB) copied, 173.315 seconds, 62.0 MB/s
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you need RAID :)
<imbrandon> yes very much, i just wanted to get these going then upgrade/implemtn them as we go
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> that was in ~ anyway
<ajmitch> ajmitch@aurora:~$ sudo pvcreate /dev/loop0
<imbrandon> plus aurora only has 2 drives ( and only one when i put it in production )
<ajmitch> No program "pvcreate" found for your current version of LVM
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> sucky thing
<shawarma> jetsaredi1: It's done now.  Probably has been for a while. 
<crimsun> sistpoty: / ajmitch: sorry, poor phrasing.  I meant MC pooling to sponsor a person (or two)
<ajmitch> needed to do /etc/init.d/lvm start
<zul_> do do do
<imbrandon> crimsun, just the MC or MOTU in general?  i'd kick in a few $$ for someone
<ajmitch> crimsun: depends on who's able to pony up some cash, so to speak :)
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have a MOTU pool
<zul> ask canonical to put some money in
<LaserJock> maybe System76 would be interested too
<crimsun> imbrandon: I think MOTU sponsoring other MOTU would be fantastic
<shawarma> LaserJock: What's that? 
<zul> then I could go to the carribean again
<imbrandon> yea i dont think i can sponsor a whole persons trip but i could add a few $$ to the pool, yea we need to lookinto this
<imbrandon> sounds like a great idea
<trycyt> Hello. 
<trycyt> Hmm, I'm making a Debian package out of something that demands a user create a symlink to something. 
<trycyt> Here's the problem: if the package is to be generic, then it has to force dependencies of two packages. 
<trycyt> However, only one of them can be used. 
<trycyt> (Think like having two DM / WMs on the same TTY is impossible, but you can have GNOME or KDE for example by themselves)
<trycyt> How can I make a package that tells the user to select at apt-get time? 
<trycyt> So let's say I apt-get install mypackage
<trycyt> I need them to choose to which program they want a symlink. 
<trycyt> Where, when, and how should I do that? 
<jetsaredi1> shawarma: downloading - thanks
<jetsaredi1> looks like ~ 1 hr
<trycyt> Does anyone see a viable solution to my problem? 
<shawarma> trycyt: Are you familiar with the alternatives system? 
<trycyt> shawarma: Ah, only as a user though. 
<trycyt> I have used update-alternatives. 
<shawarma> trycyt: Right.  That's probably what you want. 
<trycyt> Hmm, I'll look up on how to integrate that into a Debian package though. 
<shawarma> trycyt: There are plenty of examples out there already.  gdm/kdm for instance. 
<shawarma> trycyt: Or nano/emacs/vim-tiny/vim/nvi
<shawarma> trycyt: Xfree86/Xorg
<trycyt> shawarma: I will definitely look it all up.  Thanks for the suggestion :)
<shawarma> trycyt: You can take a peek at those for hints. 
<shawarma> trycyt: No problem.  
<sistpoty> crimsun: sorry, was afk right now... sounds like an excellent idea
<trycyt> shawarma: In your opinion, which Debian package is of the highest quality that a newbie package maintainer would be able to use a reference? 
<shawarma> trycyt: I'd take one of the small editors (joe, nano or whatever).  Those a probably the least scary and still do what they should. 
<ajmitch> crimsun: of course you have the fun problem of choosing someone to sponsor
<trycyt> shawarma: Well, they'd also have to incorporate this update-alternatives deal we were talking about. 
<shawarma> trycyt: They do. 
<shawarma> trycyt: That's the point. :-) 
<shawarma> trycyt: /usr/bin/editor points to an editor that is chosen by update-alternatives
<shawarma> Does anyone here have a relatively standard install of Ubuntu?  COuld you check the permissions on /, please? 
<trycyt> shawarma: Oh yeah... hehe.  Thanks again. 
<shawarma> trycyt: np
<trycyt> shawarma: Sure, give me a second on the permissions deal. 
<shawarma> trycyt: cool
<shawarma> trycyt: Just the output from 'ls -ld /' will do fine. 
<sistpoty> shawarma: drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 
<shawarma> sistpoty: Oh, really? 
<shawarma> sistpoty: I wonder why mine's 775..
<sistpoty> shawarma: howeve that's IIRC a late edgy install
<sistpoty> (dist-upgraded to feisty)
<shawarma> sistpoty: That's fine. 
<norsetto> quick question ....
<norsetto> I made a couple of patches for some LP bugs lately.  For them to be processed, should I just assign them to ubuntu-universe-sponsors? 
<sistpoty> norsetto: iirc subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (rather assigning the bugs to them)
<lionel> norsetto: not assigned, subscribe UUS
<norsetto> I see ... thanks! 
<norsetto> now gotta go change these assignments..... 
<norsetto> btw, do you ever sleep stefan? 
<jdong> he does the half-brain-sleep thing
<jdong> kinda like me, but like Ubuntu I can't figure out how to come out of it. 
<sistpoty> norsetto: which stefan do you mean? 
<jdong> the one who accounts for 50% of channel traffic the past 15 minutes :)
<norsetto> the very one :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<TheMuso> Stefan is not the one you should be asking about sleep. 
<TheMuso> That honour I think goes to crimsun, aka Daniel Chen
<ajmitch> back later
<sistpoty> later ajmitch
<sistpoty> TheMuso: definitely! 
<jdong> TheMuso: ironically, a kernel guy :)
<jdong> but meh, his work is quite... sound. 
* jdong fires his joke writer
<TheMuso> jdong: No argument from me there. 
<harpreet> Hi Stefan - I am Sun, we had uploaded GlassFish application server on feb 22nd.  We got lot of feedback from Daniel Holbach.  We made quite a number of changes and wish to upload a set of packages up. 
<harpreet> I meant I am from Sun Microsystems :-)
<harpreet> I had a brief conversation with you last time when we uploaded. 
<sistpoty> hi harpreet
<harpreet> hi
<sistpoty> harpreet: does revu make trouble again? 
<harpreet> No - I just wanted to let you know before I upload so that we dont catch you with surprise like last time :-)
<sistpoty> harpreet: hehe
<LaserJock> :-)
<harpreet> :-)
<harpreet> I just had 1 question - we do not sign the packages during debuild.  We used gpg to sign the .changes files in a separate step.  
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-13
<sistpoty> harpreet: /me uses debsign (wrapper around gpg) for this purpose... maybe it'll make your life easier ;)
<harpreet> Stefan: Last time you listed the right gpg parameter and the step to figure out if we had signed in the right manner.  I missed out on documenting that, can you list out. 
<norsetto> g'night all
<harpreet> Stefan: it was pretty easy last time :-), the other way I need to get our release engineer an account in Ubuntu :-) -she will not like doing that. 
<sistpoty> harpreet: debuild -S -sa -us -uc (-S -> build source package, -sa include orig.tar.gz, -us -uc do not sign anything (man dpkg-buildpackage can tell you the details))
<sistpoty> harpreet: then you can simply run debsign -k0x8d7fca91 *changes (of course with your key, not mine ;))
<jdong> crimsun: I appear to be mistaken, xgl does build against system mesa
<TheMuso> Back later folks. 
<harpreet> stefan: Aha, thats what I was looking for :-)
<harpreet> Stefan: will try it out and let you know if I run into any issues. 
<jdong> crimsun: so the bundled mesa updates in the debdiff probably aren't needed, but I'm not sure if that means we should magically drop them....
<harpreet> stefan: thanks! 
<sistpoty> harpreet: ok, glad to help 
<shawarma> Who are the tiber admins again?  I keep forgetting
<LaserJock> shawarma: do you need something? 
<shawarma> LaserJock: I have a toy I want to test. :-) 
<LaserJock> what kind of toy? :-) 
<shawarma> I've created a fuse filesystem that fetches ssh keys from launchpad on the fly and imbrandon doesn't seem to be around so I can get it tested on the new build servers. 
<shawarma> Oh, not everyone as access to tiber.. I keep forgetting that too. :-) 
<harpreet> stefan: that worked sweet :-).  I will upload the packages - there will be 4 in all and email Daniel Holbach about it. 
<daviey> Hi, i am unable to retrieve my password for REVU. 
<sistpoty> harpreet: great :)
<sistpoty> daviey: did you (successfully) upload a package to revu yet? 
<daviey> yes, and a diff
<sistpoty> daviey: hm... give me a minute
<daviey> thanks
<shawarma> jetsaredi1: Could you ping me when you're done? 
<crimsun> jdong: I just read the xinerama comment for that bug. 
<jdong> crimsun: I'm working with the commentor right now
<crimsun> jdong: excellent, thanks
<jdong> crimsun: apparently some form of xinerama is in the source, and a option is in the binary, just need to figure out how it works :)
<jdong> crimsun: but I think we're making some progress :)
<jdong> crimsun: so as far as the xinerama stuff, our ./configure enables system mesa, so the built in stuff isn't even used....
<jdong> (I'm shocked that's working at all :D)
<crimsun> :)
<crimsun> back in 42 mins, watching BSG cap
<jdong> so I guess a good chunk of the debdiff is unimportant then :)
<shawarma> crimsun: bsg? 
<crimsun> shawarma: http://epguides.com/BattlestarGalactica/
<shawarma> crimsun: oh
<jdong> shawarma: you have gone down a nerd-IQ notch in my books ;-)
<RAOF> Woah, not knowing BSG?   Heresy! 
<jdong> crimsun: ha, xinerama works.  needs +xinerama line on command line! 
<shawarma> jdong: So I'm down to what?  eleventy billion-1? 
<harpreet> stefan: Thanks again for your help I have uploaded the files and have sent a message to Daniel
<crimsun> jdong: excellent. 
<jdong> shawarma: use of eleventy has also brought you down.  Everyone knows it switches into karma points after eleventy million. 
<shawarma> jdong: "eleventy" gives negative points?  Your rules! 
<shawarma> jdong: Eleventy is the coolest number ever. 
<shawarma> jdong: Nobody know quite how large it is; only that it's *really* large. 
<sistpoty> daviey: no idea right now why recovering your pw doesn't work... I'll send you an encrypted mail with the pw. 
<jdong> shawarma: watch out with immature innuendos around me. 
<jdong> shawarma: I am a sucker for them. 
* jdong snickers immaturely and forgets he should be finishing important homework
<daviey> sistpoty, thanks
<shawarma> jdong: Oh, don't speak to me about homework.  I have a killer exam on Thursday and I've hardly opened a book yet.  
<sistpoty> daviey: ah, now I know why it won't work: your ELG-E key (used for encryption) has expired
<jdong> shawarma: sounds like me :)
<shawarma> jdong: You study cs? 
<daviey> sistpoty, still?   I fixed that and published it
<fatman2>  hello i am fatman and i weigh 400 pounds.   you can see videos of my supreme fatness at www.fatman.tk
<shawarma> cool
<sistpoty> daviey: hm... just imported your key locally from keyserver.ubuntu.com, no luck so far
<jdong> shawarma: yeah, I do :)
<daviey> hmm
<jdong> shawarma: and it's called course 6. 
<jdong> hehe
<shawarma> jdong: course 6 means nothing to me.  Should it? 
<sistpoty> daviey: I'll just send the pw to you as a plain email (won't give you much rights besides posting comments to your uploads), but I guess you should fix that key issue sometime
<jdong> shawarma: it's not called CS, it's called Course 6.  always :)
<daviey> sistpoty, thanks
<shawarma> jdong: I see.  And I suppose there's a totally rational explanation to that. 
<jdong> shawarma: at least that's what Professor Abelson said on first day....
<sistpoty> you're welcome
<jdong> shawarma: when Hal Abelson says something, you submit. 
<geser> wow, over 150 bugs for ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<shawarma> jdong: Of course. 
<jdong> shawarma: he's already found enjoyment picking on my social ineptitude :)
<crimsun> jdong: 87687 +1'd
<jdong> crimsun: yay *hug*
<jdong> crimsun: one more technical question.....
<jdong> never mind
<jdong> actually, answered myself :)
<jdong> shawarma: today he convinced me that he was deeply offended if people move the chairs in his lecture room
<shawarma> jdong: Of course.  They were put there for a reason. 
<jdong> shawarma: lol, I seriously believed him and started apologizing profusely :D
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<RAOF> Hey bddebian. 
<bddebian> Hello RAOF
<chx> Hi.  davfs2 for edgy is quite old :( is there a (simple) way to get something more recent? 
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<sistpoty> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey sistpoty 
<bddebian> Hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian 
<chx> The answer is: download the static binary.  Thanks.  Bye. 
<Toadstool> uh? 
<bddebian> :-)
<RAOF> He comes, he goes :)
<sistpoty> hm... he still needs to learn the rules for the channel.  it's not "Thanks.  Bye."  but "kthxbye" ;)
<Toadstool> heh
<ajmitch> kthxbai gimme pony
<Lathiat> heh
<sistpoty> lol
<Toadstool> OMG!!1 pony! 
<Lathiat> http://litterbox.zawodny.com/i/pony.jpg
<crimsun> I'd like a pony. 
<bddebian> I'd like a brain
<RAOF> I don't have anywhere to keep a pony.   Do you have a collapsible version? 
<crimsun> you'll have to settle for http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/i-want-a-pony.jpg
<RAOF> Hm.   Do ponies store well in the fridge? :) 
<crimsun> no, but PBRs do
<crimsun> and they're only $1 here! 
<bddebian> They aren't worth $1
<crimsun> although yeah, they taste like $0.01
* RAOF is puzzled by the acronym PBR
<LaserJock> well, a pony may fit in a fridge, but it requires a bit of "processing"
<crimsun> http://www.pabstblueribbon.com
<bddebian> I hate to tell you all but that isn't a pony
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't burst any bubbles ;-)
<bddebian> It looks like a Miniature horse to me, not a pony
<ajmitch> someone has to spoil the party, don't they? 
<bddebian> :-)
<crimsun> :'(
<RAOF> Man, I so want to write a gmail-like GTK markup widget. 
<jdong> you mean Adobe Acrobat Reader -like markup widget. 
<RAOF> Do I?   I don't use Acrobat. 
<RAOF> I mean where the smilies get up and dance, where \m/>.<\m/ looks cool, and where *bolds* stuff. 
<ajmitch> sounds perfectly useless :)
<jdong> ajmitch: I bet you scoff at beryl and compiz too
<jdong> oh wait. 
<jdong> I wish Firefox had a Perl console widget. 
<crimsun> I wish the kernel had an emacs event handler
<RAOF> Oh, totally useless. 
<RAOF> Well, maybe not totally.   Having bold, italic and underline inline markup in IRC could be useful. 
<RAOF> Except no one else could see it :)
<ajmitch> some clients already do it
<esaym> where is that ubuntu how to for making packages?  I lost my link :(
<ajmitch> like irssi does *bold* & _underline_
<bddebian> Modulo in C is % ? 
<jdong> RAOF: get a dry erase marker and a bottle of windex
<Toadstool> yep
* jdong ducks
<ajmitch> ! packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<ajmitch> esaym: ^
<RAOF> I just want my xchat-gnome to do it too :)
<esaym> ajmitch: hey thanks.   ALso anyone know the perl dev module name in the repos? 
<Toadstool> what do you guys think about bug 84868?  dunno if what I'm doing is the right thing (tm) :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 84868 in nozomi "cannot compile module" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84868
<RAOF> bddebian: Sometimes modulo in C is & 1, because speedfreaks don't trust gcc to optimise :)
<sistpoty> bah... speed freaks
<RAOF> That threw me in the compiz code, actually. 
<RAOF> It's not immediately obvious that "if(bar & 1)" means "if bar is odd" :)
<sistpoty> hehe
* sistpoty had some negative experience with bison ppl.  and their need for speed neglecting clean interfaces
<ajmitch> ugh, too many uvf requests that I haven't checked for a couple of days
<ajmitch> jdong: now you need to get someone to upload xserver-xgl 
<jdong> ajmitch: ok, shall I streamline 0ubuntu1 and 0ubuntu2 together, then subscribe uvf-sponsors? 
<ajmitch> yeah
<jdong> ok, thanks :)
* jdong gonna work thru a bit more scheme first
<jdong> what a painful language
<jdong> )))
<jetsaredi1> shawarma: ping
<jetsaredi1> I was done a while ago, but was putting the kids to bed
<jetsaredi1> turns out not to be of so much use as its too big for the blank cds I have
<TLE> jetsaredi1: I think he went to bed
<jetsaredi1> ah
<jetsaredi1> he was mirroring  the feisty daily
<jetsaredi1> for me, but like I said the iso is too big for the media I have
<jetsaredi1> by about 2M
<jetsaredi1> not even
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> jetsaredi1: dailies can often be that way, once you have one usually rsyncing to one that's the right size is fast
<jetsaredi1> I don't actually want to install it tho
<LaserJock> what do you want to do? 
<jetsaredi1> just trying to help the mythtv people get some dmesg information
<jetsaredi1> ah well
<LaserJock> why do you need a daily? 
<jetsaredi1> that's what they ask for
<LaserJock> Herd 5 should be fine then I'd think
<jetsaredi1> mm
<LaserJock> Herd 5 was released on the 2nd
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think *that* much had changed
<jetsaredi1> nod
<jetsaredi1> actually
<jetsaredi1> I wonder if all of the drivers are pre-loaded on the normal non-daily livecd
<LaserJock> hmm? 
<jetsaredi1> the specific task I was looking to do was to get the dmesg output from an ivtv wintv card
<LaserJock> ok
<jetsaredi1> I wonder if that's the difference
<jetsaredi1> (~30M size diff)
<TheMuso> I don't think the kernel has changed since herd 5. 
<LaserJock> jetsaredi1: nah, it's just changes in seeding etc. 
<jetsaredi1> mm - so it prolly shouldn't matter
<jetsaredi1> just maybe the kernel version
<TheMuso> Yeah. 
<TheMuso> The last kernel was released on 12 February. 
<TheMuso> Or thats the most recent changelog entry date anyway. 
<imbrandon> re
<jdong> *bah* cdr this you sloth.....
<LaserJock> man, somebody needs to write a GUI config panel for mutt
<LaserJock> I love CLI tools, I just don't like setting them up
<TheMuso> There is a website that can generate mutt configs. 
<TheMuso> Mutt configs can be very modular which is really nice. 
<TheMuso> Mine is very much so, allowing me to add email accounts/mailboxes in a pinch. 
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Would a sample config file with comments be of any help? 
<LaserJock> I've got one
<TheMuso> Ok. 
<LaserJock> I spent the time to set mutt up once
<LaserJock> my config file is rather large
<LaserJock> but now I want to change my setup and I don't look forward to setting it up
<imbrandon> fskin ppc buildd just went to sleep
<imbrandon> grrr
<imbrandon> guess it will be offline untill i goto work tomarrow, i'm not going in tonight
<LaserJock> doh
<imbrandon> hrm wait there is someon on duty lemme call them
<imbrandon> i can have them bounce it
<crimsun> imbrandon: query regarding federation from 13 hrs ago
<LaserJock> TheMuso: do you have any clue where that website is? 
<imbrandon> crimsun, doh, dident see it, give me 5 minutes to do that
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Sorry no, I just remember seeing it when I was getting my head around mutt configs. 
<TheMuso> Which was three years ago now./
<imbrandon> woot, had the staff on duty bounce the box for me and now its working
<imbrandon> i love a 24 hour noc
<imbrandon> crimsun, see query please
<imbrandon> StevenK, ping
<LaserJock> TheMuso: do you have an imap setup? 
<TheMuso> LaserJock: No, I use pop3. 
<chillywilly> hey, where is the live cd download for edgy, I cannot find it
<chillywilly> :(
<LaserJock> should be with all the others
<chillywilly> I see desktop, server, and alternate
<ajmitch> desktop = live
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you don't mind if I play around & try & setup wanna-build/buildd/sbuild, do you? 
<ajmitch> might stick it with mini-dinstall
<chillywilly> thanks
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nope i dont mind at all, i'm gonna be working on the mirror
<imbrandon> just fyi incase apt-get is locked
<imbrandon> just give it a sec
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> or I might use anon ftp & a 5-minute cron job to stick things in the build queue
<imbrandon> can we have it check sigs too to make sure only 
<ajmitch> sure
<imbrandon> users
<imbrandon> are allowed to build
<ajmitch> I'll just borrow the code from revu
<imbrandon> rockin
<ajmitch> syncing the keyring should be easy enough
<imbrandon> then maybe we can stick the results in ~/results for that user and i can sett apache up to expose those to the web
<imbrandon> possibly
<ajmitch> since it's not often that someone gets added to ubuntu-dev
<imbrandon> right
<ajmitch> keyring syncs can stay in cron
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> like once a day or seomthing should be fine
<ajmitch> same as on tiber
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i'm working on getting a kerbos server setup and unified /home
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what are the specs on the i386 machine? 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, p4 2ghz 768mb ram 160gb / and 250bg /mirror
<imbrandon> iirc
<imbrandon> thats from memory
<imbrandon> i could have to look to make sure
<imbrandon> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz
* ajmitch should probably do some ldap/kerberos setup
<ajmitch> a shame I can't use my amd64 in the build network :)
<LaserJock> hmm, 2.6 is still faster than my AMD 1800+
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i'm gonna make the kerberos server seperate nad JUST do kerberos and /mirror
<LaserJock> darn it, why does gnome-panel keep dying?!? :( 
<imbrandon> so we can manage the /home and perms and such 
<imbrandon> from one boxen
<imbrandon> instaead of 3 or 5
<imbrandon> but its up and working now, that was the main goal, then upgrade / tweak it from there
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> a pity you don't have a sparc in the local rack
<imbrandon> yea that would kick ass
<ajmitch> since sharing /home to .de will be a pain
<imbrandon> eventualy i will
<imbrandon> i will try to eventualy get all arches local
<imbrandon> just need some $$ for ebay to pickup a sparc
<imbrandon> etc
<ajmitch> solicit donations
<imbrandon> i might , i had thought about it
<LaserJock> blog it baby! 
<imbrandon> i really need to put gigbit nics in them all to and put them on a 1000 switch alone
<imbrandon> right now they are all connected to diffrent ports on the work cisco 100mb switch
<imbrandon> gig between themselfs and then 100mb outbound 
<imbrandon> is what i wish
<imbrandon> brb dew run
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> all that networking goodness made him thirsty
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> that was quick
<imbrandon> fridge is closer now
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> so how are you going to do kerberos? 
<LaserJock> bah, some days running Feisty on my "production" machine is just a pain
<ajmitch> since you're doing it all with only ssh keys
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> true , honestly i hadent thought toooooo much about it, i just wanteto get a central server auth
<imbrandon> might not be fesable
<imbrandon> i borrowed 20gb from the work SAN tonight too
<imbrandon> just to try to put /home on it but i dont think thats gonan be good
<imbrandon> permissions dont work right on it
<imbrandon> man my camera needs to take better pics
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/gsi/imbrandon-rack.jpg
<imbrandon> thats the rack
<imbrandon> tis full but the one next to it is still empty hehe
<imbrandon> the laptop below the switch ( about the middle ) is intrepid , the one below that ( 1u ) is my webserver voyager , and the 2u below that is aurora
<imbrandon> the x86
<ajmitch> nice
<ajmitch> tiny photo
<imbrandon> above the switch is the SAN ;)
<imbrandon> yea, stupid camera phone
<ajmitch> we need to put a few funds together for a decent dual-core amd64
<imbrandon> yea i think right now the buildd network needs: more ram for the x86 , a amd64 , and a sparc localy , past tyhat we are set
<imbrandon> i can pony up for a /home ( possibly auth too ) server
<ajmitch> how much diskspace do you have for building? 
<imbrandon> where?  on aurora about 130gb
<ajmitch> if we're getting packages uploaded, or some way to request builds, you could go through a lot of space
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> i could leave the mirror where it is and user /dev/sdb1 ( currently /mirror ) just for build uploads
<ajmitch> eg a script to request a build (send gpg-signed mail to build@ubuntuwire.com, asking for package foo to be built for feisty)
<imbrandon> its a 250gb drive , i dont really have to move the mirror onto aurora
<imbrandon> its still on the same lan
<ajmitch> disks are cheap to add
<ajmitch> how many can you fit in aurora & the ppc? 
<imbrandon> cheap if there is room ;)
<ajmitch> that's why I'm asking :)
<ajmitch> seems that 320GB is about the best price/GB for now
<imbrandon> ppc -0- its a laptop, aurora is a 2u so i could probably add 4 more disks but the controler thats in it atm dosent have any more sata space
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> i have a shitload of disks and a few more pci controler
<imbrandon> s
<ajmitch> you'd want to do the building on a large, fast area
<ajmitch> eg LVM on RAID
<ajmitch> like I do at home
<imbrandon> yea
<Lathiat> ajmitch: 400s are almost on par with 320s now
<imbrandon> hrm *thinks*
<ajmitch> where /usr/local is mostly dedicated to ubuntu & debian work
* LaserJock think ajmitch should just take one for the team and send imbrandon his box ;-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<ajmitch> Lathiat: cool, I'd extend my RAID array if I could find a decent 4-port SATA controller :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you want to cripple me, don't you? 
<Lathiat> i think im going to buy 8x400G drives
<imbrandon> i ahve a 12 port sata controler here but i dunno if it would fit in the 2u box ;)
<LaserJock> it's not like you do anything anyway ;p
* ajmitch probably couldn't afford the power bill for that many drives
* LaserJock hides
<ajmitch> LaserJock: true
* ajmitch resigns from all the teams & revokes his key
<imbrandon> nooo
<LaserJock> I just upgraded to a 160GB ATA drive \o/
<imbrandon> heh i have 4x 160gb in my desktop now
<imbrandon> sata
* ajmitch only has 3x250
<imbrandon> a few months ago i had 1 to 0 in it ( it died and i was strapped )
<LaserJock> I've never seen a sata drive or a RAID setup
<LaserJock> silly chemists
<ajmitch> I suppose I could make do with just my laptop
<LaserJock> we'd rather have lasers than cool computers
<ajmitch> if I cleaned up the drive a bit
<LaserJock> no way
<ajmitch> hm? 
<imbrandon> hrm if i reconfigured auroa i could add 6 drives total , and i have another 2 port card here that will work
<imbrandon> and a 12 that /might/ fit
<ajmitch> a 12? 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you need you're cool desktop machine
<imbrandon> and a few 160GB 
<imbrandon> drives
<imbrandon> and 2 250's
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, and it would cost more than the machine is worth to send it anywhere :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i have one 12 port sata controler
<ajmitch> imbrandon: send it my way
<imbrandon> dunno if it will fit in the 2u though
<ajmitch> PCI? 
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> you'd think it'd easily saturate the PCI buss
<nixternal> imbrandon: all of my patches for KTorrent have already been accepted and uploaded, so here is you poke for backporting :)
<imbrandon> nixternal, uploaded to the archive or -proposed? 
<nixternal> archive
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<ajmitch> I could understand having a 12-port PCIe controller
<imbrandon> possibly
<ajmitch> standard PCI does up to 133MB/s, iirc
<imbrandon> it might be a pci-e i could ahve to look honestly, but i have a pci-e slot in the 2u
<imbrandon> so either way it would work
<imbrandon> the big thing is getting power and space
<imbrandon> dunno how many drive the powersuppy will take up
<imbrandon> surely it would do 6 though
<nixternal> imbrandon: what size psu? 
<imbrandon> man , i'm half tempted to drive to ATC and do this tonight
<trycyt> For developing Debian packages, is it better to have 'install' or 'cp' lines in the Makefile? 
<nixternal> 450+ will do 12 drives
<jdong> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> jdong: pong
<jdong> nixternal: regarding KTorrent 2.1.x do you think we should pursue those changes in Feisty? 
<nixternal> jdong: dunno, we can try though
<jdong> nixternal: they do seem to improve heavy-traffic performance significantly
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I've run 5 drives in my box & seen it peak at 180W only when booting up
<nixternal> seeing as Feisty has been patched
<jdong> i.e. LAN or high speed net transfers....
<nixternal> jdong: so I have noticed
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
<nixternal> I heard the saturation isn't as bad anymore
<jdong> nixternal: I think we should go for a UVFe :)
<nixternal> I have been testing 2.1.2 here tonight and I can't reproduce any of the bugs on LP, or even get it to crash
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well if i did it this second , i would have a 250GB and 3 160GB drives to put in it 
<crimsun> yeah, jdong must be using ktorrent with those uncompressed xserver-xgl diffs...
<LaserJock> nixternal: did you fix kubuntu-docs? 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's cool
<nixternal> LaserJock: what was wrong with them? 
<jdong> nixternal: 2.0.3 has some real infamous crashers and data corruption bugs too
<LaserJock> nixternal: the conflict with ubuntu-docs
<jdong> nixternal: i.e. the partial torrent import logic loves to trash files :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: when was it conflicting? 
<imbrandon> ajmitch, but it would require a reformat etc etc etc
<nixternal> nobody told me anything about that
<ajmitch> imbrandon: LVM
<imbrandon> yea
<jdong> nixternal: I don't think we'll be able to reproduce any of the open bugs on 2.1.2
<imbrandon> i would do it "right" this time
<ajmitch> why reformat? 
<LaserJock> nixternal: didn't you see the bug report? 
<nixternal> LaserJock: no I didn't
<imbrandon> ajmitch, and then we could make the x86 the storage and "main" buldd
<ajmitch> well you would create the partitions & all, but just copy all the files on
<imbrandon> its not LVM currently
<nixternal> LaserJock: looking at it now
<ajmitch> nothing requiring any reinstall
<LaserJock> nixternal: kubuntu-docs is fighting with ubuntu-docs over a firefox page, makes it not upgrade
* ajmitch converted his box to LVM just by shuffling stuff
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> nixternal: I thought I talked to you about it like this morning or something
<LaserJock> nixternal: maybe it was jjesse
<nixternal> LaserJock: that is going to be a pain to fix
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well its currently setup with / on a single 160gb drive non lvm and a /dev/sdb1 250gb single drive
<nixternal> he has ubuntu-docs package installed and then kubuntu-docs, both using the firefox homepage deal
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no worries, let's do a remote conversion :)
<imbrandon> would be alot of shuffleing
<nixternal> hrmm, I could always just rename the firefox page
<ajmitch> not too much
<nixternal> this sucks
<LaserJock> nixternal: it used to work though
<LaserJock> nixternal: I've always had both
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ok lemme clear /mirror and unmount it and change the mount name , the we can try a remote conversion, if it fails i can dive there and fix it
<LaserJock> nixternal: it's supposed to be an /etc/alternatives thing, did that go away? 
<nixternal> LaserJock: yes, but with old docs it was just index.html so it never got in the way
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i might dive there tonight anyhow to add the 2 other 160gb drives
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you want to do it right now? 
<ajmitch> I'd want to do a bit more planning
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> like whether to put the drives in a RAID array or not
<LaserJock> planning is for sissies
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> real men just ripe drives and regret it
<imbrandon> definately, hum actualy so we dont polute in here anyone interested in the planning of the buildd network join #ubuntuwire
<nixternal> ripe um huh
<imbrandon> hehe
<nixternal> LaserJock: this is upsetting now
<LaserJock> spelling is not my strong point
<LaserJock> kept me out of all the "gifted" classes when I was in school
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> I was in the gifted...OK, I am not going there
<LaserJock> then in 5th grade they finally let me in
<LaserJock> legos and computer games
<LaserJock> sweet
<LaserJock> but my spelling has never been great
<nixternal> hahaha
<joejaxx> how is everyone? 
<TheMuso> Hey joejaxx. 
<TheMuso> Very well thanks. 
<joejaxx> that is good to hear
<TheMuso> joejaxx: And yourself? 
<joejaxx> you are most welcome
<joejaxx> i am well at the current moment
<asl> hey there!   I'm new, and I have a package I'd like to introduce to the ubuntu universe
<asl> I think the package is in good shape, I'm just not sure how to get it reviewed
<RAOF> asl: Well, you'd want to upload it to REVU. 
<TheMuso> ! revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<RAOF> And you'd also want to know that it's very unlikely to get into Feisty, since Universe feature freeze was some time ago. 
<asl> ah, okay
<asl> are there other options aside from universe, then, for making available in a structured way? 
<asl> .. for making it available ...
<asl> well, it's submitted, then.   I'll try to keep it in good shape for 7.10
<asl> thanks for the help
<RAOF> Well, you can put it up on REVU, get it reviewed etc, and submit a Debian Intent To Package
<RAOF> If you can get it into Debian you get it into Universe for free :)
<asl> well, I figured I could do the testing easier for Ubuntu, seeing as that's what I run
<RAOF> Indeed. 
<RAOF> But even if you get it into Feisty+1's Universe, we'd still like you to submit it to Debian :)
* RAOF really needs to get around to his ITP for specto :(
<RAOF> And if you get it into Debian it goes a *lot* further than just Ubuntu. 
<asl> this may not be the place to ask ... but is there an easy way to set up a chroot for Debian sid?   debootstrap has a script for sid, but it seems to be broken. 
<RAOF> You should be able to use pbuilder to set up a sid chroot easily enough.   Let's see what ubotu has to say...
<RAOF> ! pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment.  To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<TheMuso> There is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<StevenK> pbuilder calls debootstrap anyway
<StevenK> If debootstrap doesn't work, it's likely that pbuilder won't. 
<asl> Steven: I guess I was trying the right thing then
<StevenK> Sid is not guaranteed to be bootstrap-able. 
<StevenK> asl: Are you able to put the error on a pastebin? 
<asl> steven: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10141/
<jkakar> Hello.   I'm trying to package a Python application and running into problems using dh_python on dapper and feisty (edgy seems to be happy enough, though complains of deprecation). 
<jkakar> I'm trying to understand if there's a "trick" I can use that will make this package work on dapper/edgy/feisty... dh_pymagic... :)
<jkakar> If there is no way, do I fork this package and maintain different versions for different distribution releases?   What's the standard way of dealing with this kind of situation? 
<StevenK> asl: Sid is not an Ubuntu distribution. 
<StevenK> asl: debootstrap has an option for a mirror, set it to ftp.debian.org or so. 
<asl> steven: thanks. I guess it's not as simple as letting the included scipts do their thing
<TheMuso> jkakar: dh_python is depricated. 
<TheMuso> jkakar: Have you read the Debian python policy? 
<StevenK> asl: It is for Ubuntu distributions, since they are on archive.u.c
<jkakar> TheMuso: In bits, yes.   I don't generally know enough about packaging to understand a whole lot of it.   I should probably re-read it and understand it more thoroughly. 
<asl> steven: your solution works.   thanks for the help
<TheMuso> jkakar: Do you know of the packaging guide? 
<jkakar> TheMuso: Yup. 
<StevenK> asl: No problem. 
<TheMuso> jkakar: Do you want a link to a summary page about the policy? 
<TheMuso> s/do you want/would you like/
<jkakar> TheMuso: Yes please, that might help. 
<TheMuso> ok just a sec. 
<jkakar> TheMuso: Thanks! 
<TheMuso> jkakar: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<jkakar> TheMuso: Thanks, much appreciated. 
<TheMuso> jkakar: You're welcome. 
<jkakar> TheMuso: This is helping, thanks. 
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee. 
<StevenK> imbrandon: Pong
<imbrandon> xauth is installed silly
<imbrandon> and was
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso! 
<StevenK> imbrandon: Even on intrepid? 
<imbrandon> ohh intrepid i dident check
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> one sec
<StevenK> I did say *.ubuntuwire.com, silly.  :-P
* Hobbsee o.O's at blog stats
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i checked aurora
<imbrandon> me and ajmitch are upgrading aurora tonight, some raid 0 goodness with lvm and sbuild goodness mixed in
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> ok StevenK xauth installing anything else you need ? 
<StevenK> imbrandon: Root privs.  :-P
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> 950 is a heck of a lot of page views...over 2 days...
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i get about 2.5k from planet ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> you will get lots more soon
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> *grin*
* Hobbsee went from an empty blog, just syndicated to planet....to get 950 in ~2 days is pretty amazing...
<crimsun> sure am glad you blog deities are picking up the slack
<StevenK> Yeah, means unimportant people like me don't have to blog. 
<StevenK> Oh sorry, s/\(unimportant\)/really really \1/
<crimsun> I'm with that
* ajmitch is blog-free
<crimsun> I'm probably spamming the -bugs mailing list
<crimsun> (sorry)
<imbrandon> hehe -bugs is crimsun's blog
<StevenK> Most bloggers aren't that technical. 
<StevenK> Let's syndicate -bugs to Planet under crimsun's name. 
<crimsun> hey now, I don't take credit for beryl*
<StevenK> I don't think any of us want to. 
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> StevenK's volunteering
<StevenK> I'm so not. 
<Hobbsee> you so are
<LaserJock> oh can I maintain beryl*?  can I?  can I? 
<ajmitch> sure
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes.   can i quote you? 
* ajmitch gives LaserJock the dunce cap
<ajmitch> branded for life! 
<LaserJock> I think I could whip a nice package with a preinst script with dpkg -r beryl* ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: better to remove all of xorg in the process :)
<crimsun> you probably mean rm -rf, since calling dpkg in the maintainer script would be a ... bad idea
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> or a metapackage with conflicts on beryl* compiz*
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, I thought it was a sufficently bad idea that that minor detail wouldn't be an issue
<LaserJock> you got my point
<LaserJock> but yeah, I'd go with a lot of rm -rf in reality
<crimsun> oh, right.  Forgot that you had created it using checkinstall. 
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I wonder if I could implement wobbly windows in ncurses?  
<LaserJock> mwuahaha
<StevenK> LaserJock: Sure, look at "bb"
<StevenK> LaserJock: Although it uses libaa
<Flannel> libcaca will get you color. 
<StevenK> libaa has shades! 
<Flannel> shades? 
<StevenK> Like shades of grey
<Flannel> grey is a color, you know. 
* elkbuntu notes that flannel has never had an art lesson in his life. 
<Flannel> elkbuntu: For the purpose of this discussion, it's a color. 
<StevenK> I hadn't heard of libcaca, though
<Flannel> it's fun.   caca-utils has a picture viewer, and a few demos (I use the flame one as a screensaver), and of course, the library, that you can use to watch color videos
<StevenK> I saw it has a gstreamer linkage. 
<crimsun> hum, wasn't imbrandon inquiring about 3gp stuff recently? 
<crimsun> ah, I see my mail queue is slower than Luke
<crimsun> =)
<TheMuso> crimsun: I can't seem to find a license. 
<TheMuso> Which explains why the code isn't in ffmpeg in the first place really. 
<TheMuso> Or they haven't bothered to rewrite it. 
<TheMuso> I know such support would be useful.  Heck I remember having to rebuild ffmpeg once with that code, so I could convert some amr files from my phone. 
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Heya dholbach. 
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> hey dholbach! 
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, hey joejaxx
<joejaxx> it is 3am here
<joejaxx> hello dholbach 
<jaalto> Can I check somewhere if the upload to REVU has succeeded? 
<TheMuso> jaalto: You should see the name of the package on the revu page. 
<jaalto> Is this correct page: http://revu.tauware.de/
<jaalto> TheMuso, For some reason the dput upload succeeds ok, but the package doe snot get mentioned in that page.  Could someone check what the dput logs say in the server - if it got rejected? 
<ajmitch> jaalto: binary upload? 
<jaalto> It's truecrypt-installer_20070313-1.dsc (full source upload)
<ajmitch> you did dput revu truecrypt-installer_20070313-1_source.changes ? 
<ajmitch> make sure it went to revu, since I don't see it in the logs
<ajmitch> ah no, I see lots of it now in /home/ftp/incoming
<ajmitch> lots of binary uploads
<ajmitch> please do source-only uploads :)
<jaalto> Hm.  I see.  I supposed the binary upload (which included source) was ok.  Will change to pure source upload
<ajmitch> dput claiming it was ok, and it being acceptable are two different things
<jaalto> ajmitch, Sure - but I couln't guess the reason form here :-)
<jaalto> ajmitch, I've now uploaded pure source
<jaalto> I'd need some help wth launchpad: How to activate Malone and rosetta for the project? 
<jaalto> Never mind, the bot-so-obvious "Define launchpad usage" link was it
<TheMuso> How busy is the launchpad users mailing list? 
<imbrandon> about 20 message a week
<imbrandon> or so
<TheMuso> Good. 
* TheMuso has joined lp beta testers. 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, we finaly got it working 
<imbrandon> it == aurora
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I saw that. 
<TheMuso> You forget that I am in there. 
<TheMuso> :p
<imbrandon> and i just upgraded it to feisty, and change the pbuilder script to the faster one
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<TheMuso> Cool. 
<imbrandon> i tried it out, it is much faster
<TheMuso> Cool. 
<TheMuso> imbrandon: So how does one start using the beta interface?  I guess its just at beta.launchpad.net? 
<imbrandon> i guess so
<imbrandon> i dont use it
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> ah ok
<TheMuso> Well how do you know how much traffic lp-users gets? 
<imbrandon> i've been on lp-users for a few months
<imbrandon> not just beta testers use it ;)
<TheMuso> right
<geser> TheMuso: you get automagically redirected when you joined the lp-beta-testers
<TheMuso> geser: Thanks.  What if one has to use the original one in case of breakage? 
<TheMuso> How do we do that? 
<geser> launchpad.net has a button to disable the redirection for 2 h
<TheMuso> oh ok
<imbrandon> whats the beta team url? 
<geser> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers
<TheMuso> gotat love that.  I've forgotten my p/w.
<TheMuso> :)
<TheMuso> I have been using cookies all this time. 
<zakame> testing, gotta love it :D
<geser> TheMuso: you have to type in your password only once, you can forget it again afterwards :)
<TheMuso> geser: Well I have to reset it. :) 
<geser> dholbach: re bug #85120: which version was approved?  1.5.0-1 or 1.5.1-1? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 85120 in kscope "please sync kscope [universe]  from Debian unstable [main] " [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85120
<dholbach> ajmitch, slomo_, crimsun, siretart: can one of you look at the bug that geser pointed to?  I'm happy with the newer update
<imbrandon> moins dholbach 
<dholbach> hi imbrandon
<siretart> dholbach: done
<imbrandon> moins siretart 
* esaym sips coffee
<esaym> hmm anyone know of a good pbuilder how to? 
<esaym> And would pbuilder be the best way to make a deb file for upgrading to the latest libgpod on dapper? 
<Hobbsee> ! pbuilder | esaym 
<ubotu> esaym: pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment.  To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Hobbsee> esaym: also man pbuilder, and related bits are quite good
<daviey> 'easily' :)
<esaym> ah looks good
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<esaym> thank you
<Hobbsee> well, it is easy when you know what you're doing with it :)
<Hobbsee> no problems
<dholbach> siretart: gracias
<esaym> hmm, I am guessing that to build a deb with pbuilder I have to have the source in dsc format?   How do I get the dsc format? 
<siretart> huhu imbrandon 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
* iac_lizardking is away: Pero ora assente. 
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<jdong> ajmitch: ping, is it OK with you if the xserver-xgl package is kept at 0ubuntu2 revision, since I've already handed out testing packages with that version? 
* crimsun pokes jdong 
<crimsun> jdong: consider using ~prop1 (proposed versioning, like what we use for release-proposed)
<bddebian> Gah, you people have no sense of humor this release :-)
<crimsun> eh? 
<crimsun> I even put a blurb in the latest alsa-lib upload for earlier this morning
<bddebian> I was mainly talking about -devel :-)
<bddebian> But I didn't want to get jumped on saying it in there ;-P
<crimsun> I nearly put Melissa's retort, but it would have lacked context (not that the current one doesn't)
* elkbuntu tilts her head wonderingly
<crimsun> alsa-lib (1.0.13-1ubuntu4) feisty; urgency=low  ->  The "grey is a color" release. 
<bddebian> heh
<elkbuntu> heh
<esaym> ok how do I satisfy this in pbuilder: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10189/
<bddebian> Is it a Feisty pbuilder? 
<esaym> a feisty package that I am backporting
<esaym> libgpod
<crimsun> python-all-dev was promoted to main as of edgy
<bddebian> Right
<esaym> I am building it for dapper
<crimsun> so if you don't see it in a standard pbuilder config, either you're using dapper
<crimsun> ...
<crimsun> right, so you need universe
<bddebian> Gah, I can't keep up with crimsun :)
<esaym> yea thats where I get lost, one sec
<esaym> I have this in pbuildrrc: OTHERMIRROR="deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe multiverse"
<esaym> Is thata right? 
<jdong> crimsun: yeah, I'll do that in the future, but for this time...? 
<crimsun> jdong: doesn't ultimately matter for this time
<crimsun> (I haven't checked the bug recently; did it receive a 2nd ACK?) 
<jdong> crimsun: yeah, I got an ack before
<crimsun> ok, so the current source package can be tossed at upload.uc
<jdong> yeah
<crimsun> got url handy? 
<jdong> crimsun: http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/xgl/xserver-xgl_7.2.0.git.20070224-0ubuntu2.dsc
<crimsun> esaym: you'd need to update using --override-config
<jdong> crimsun: I owe you a legal nonalcoholic beverage :)
<jdong> or two... or 5
<crimsun> jdong: I'll settle for a just a respite from the onslaught of alsa bugs
<crimsun> (hah, "just")
<jdong> crimsun: lol, but I can't do that :D
<bddebian> :-)
<esaym> err, I forgot.   I never updated after I added that repo.   hmm
<esaym> You know the update command off hand? 
<esaym> just pbuilder update? 
<crimsun> pbuilder update --override-config
<esaym> ok I will play with this.   Thank you
<crimsun> dholbach: / siretart: / slomo_: / ajmitch: rereading bug 87687, there doesn't seem to be strong assent from anyone other than myself that the UVFe is a go.  Any opinions? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 87687 in xserver-xgl "New git snapshot required for xorg 7.2/feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87687
<esaym> Ok, know it wants python-central which is not in dapper.   Any ideas?  Hate to ask...
<esaym> now*
<crimsun> you're going to love backporting the python stack...
<bddebian> hah
<esaym> I guess I have to? 
<esaym> I might just trying making a deb from source instead of messing with pbuilder and backporting
<esaym> libgpod is a simple program.   It doesn't need all that crap I don't think
<crimsun> the python-* {B-,}Ds are there for easier maintenance; I wouldn't remove them willy-nilly, but you certainly could (although it's not recommended to) use the old policy
<esaym> Yea I was thinking about removing it
<esaym> the thing I don't get is, well so I need python central, so I backport that.   Then how do I install that backported package into the pbuilder environment? 
<crimsun> save-after-login
<esaym> "save-after-login"? 
<bddebian> Gah, wrong channel:
<bddebian> Can someone explain to me where the hell tutos2 came from? 
<esaym> so "sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login"
<esaym> hm
<tepsipakki> anyone objects to adding "add-shell zsh" to zsh-beta postinst (bug #67900)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67900 in zsh-beta "add-shell zsh" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67900
<tepsipakki> ? 
<tepsipakki> I can upload it
<philhug> hey guys.  I'd like to help out reviewing packages on REVU.  I'm a DD already.  Is there a shortcut or do I have to a send mail to motu-council? 
<tepsipakki> philhug: I guess you need to be a ubuntu-dev to be able to do that..
<geser> that's the easiest way but you could try to talk to the revu admins about it
<jdong>      - Remove the cairo stroking performance workaround
<jdong> *snicker*
<bddebian> philhug: You can review and make comments afaik, you just won't be able to Advocate
<esaym> so what is the best way to "feed" my pbuilder environment?  I don't quite follow everything here: http://edseek.com/~jasonb/articles/pbuilder_backports/pbuilderbuild.html#pbuilderhook
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<bddebian> Hmm, phpmymoney hasn't seen an upstream update for several years :-(
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian! 
<tuxmaniac> Anybody here know about ubuntu live conf? 
<LaserJock> does anybody find pitti's practice of retitling bugs "Fixed" annoying? 
<slomo_> crimsun: imho we should get it (xgl)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Finally getting through those MOTUScience bugs? :-) 
<LaserJock> u-u-s actually
<crimsun> slomo_: ok, should I interpret that as a +1? 
<bddebian> LaserJock: Ahh :)
<bddebian> Hmm, I see mydms is up to date as well..
<bmm_> Ive got a packaging question: I've got one original source which creates allot of different packages (the core and addons), copyrights are going all over the place. 
<bmm_> I can create multiple packages from the single source, and that works great.  However, I can't create multiple/different copyright files for the parts currently
<bmm_> How should this be handled? 
<crimsun> err, what? 
<Lutin> you should keep a single copyright for the whole package imo
<crimsun> debian/copyright should reference all the copyrights with specific references to files as per necessary
<Lutin> s/the whle/all the packages
<bmm> Lutin: ok, so then I have a very large copyright holders list
<crimsun> that's correct, it potentially can be quite large
<Lutin> indeed
<crimsun> if that's what it takes, however, that's what it takes. 
<bmm> crimsun: thanks.  I'll add references to the pecific parts then, because some copyrights don't apply to sub-parts of the packages.  So I
<bmm> 'll just add them all to the copyright and reference the different packages. 
<bmm> Thanks! 
<crimsun> make sure that the corresponding copyright files are in place as per necessary, too
<bmm> crimsun: what? ( I'm still a newby at this)
<crimsun> bmm: e.g., if it needs to ship a copy of $license, make sure it does so
<bmm_> crimsun: ah, yes, will do.  Only have GPL and BSD at the moment, so that should be ok. 
<bmm_> (I reference to the common files)
<slomo_> crimsun: yes
<crimsun> slomo_: ok, thanks
<cypherbios> 0.1~RC-0ubuntu1 is an good version name for an release candidate package? 
<cypherbios> *version number
<crimsun> cypherbios: sure, if it's specifically "RC"
<cypherbios> crimsun: yes, from upstream it is a release candidate
<cypherbios> and 0.1~RC is less than 0.1
<cypherbios> if dpkg --compare-versions 0.1 ge 0.1~RC; then echo yes; else echo no; fi
<trycyt> Is there an easy way of figuring out what goes in Build-Depends-Indep versus what goes in Build-Depends? 
<geser> trycyt: everything you only need for the binary-indep target can go to B-D-Indep everything else into B-D
<trycyt> geser: Can I just stick everything into Build-Depends?  or is that bad practice? 
<geser> trycyt: do you build an arch all package? 
<bddebian> Oh geser == Michael Biena! 
<geser> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> Stealing my thunder again eh? ; -P
<bddebian> Jesus, all these PHP packages seem to be outdated :-(
<bddebian> i.e. have newer upstream versions
<geser> file UVF exceptions :)
<bddebian> I will after you package the new upstream ;-P
<geser> this will also push up your karma
<bddebian> geser: I mean upstream, upstream, not Debian :-)
<geser> hopefully etch will be released soon
<geser> so that this new upstream upstream version get into Debian
<bddebian> suuure
<bddebian> MyDMS 1.4.4 upstream is 1.5.1
<geser> I don't want to update all those packages by hand for feisty+1
<bddebian> bbclone 0.4.6 upstream 0.4.9a
<geser> drupal :)
<bddebian> Ah flatnuke has newer upstream too
<geser> bddebian: wouldn't it be easier to name only those who are up-to-date ;P
<bddebian> Probably
<trycyt> I asked this question yseterday, but I need to verify that what I'm doing is correct.  Should AUTHORS, INSTALL, and NEWS go in debian/docs ? 
<trycyt> If the upstream package provides it, should the Debian package provide it as well? 
<bddebian> Hmm, actually it looks like flatnuke was removed from Debian
<geser> trycyt: if INSTALL only contains info how to install the software, you shouldn't install it as the user has already installed the software when he can read it
<esaym> is there a backport irc channel? 
<_MMA_> Hey guys.  How do I find out if something in Main will get updated?  Mainly (hehe) wacom-tools and xserver-xorg-input-wacom. 
<trycyt> geser: Here's the thing, the INSTALL file also includes information on what to symlink.  I'm handling that through update-alternatives though there are a few other things that the author specifies, but good point about not needing the INSTALL file since the user has already installed the package. 
<trycyt> geser: Also, I've made an init script for the package already, what do I label it as?  There's a sample init.d.ex file, I'm assuming I delete that? 
<trycyt> The init script's name is not the same as the package name. 
<bddebian> How do I find out when/why a package was removed from Debian when it doesn't show up on p.qa.d.o? 
<geser> bddebian: was the package officially in Debian? 
<bddebian> geser: It sure looks like it from the changelog
<geser> trycyt: usually the init script is named after the software
<trycyt> geser: So is dpkg smart enough to figure out that it is an init script even if the name of the init script isn't the same as the package name? 
<trycyt> geser: Because the software package is actually composed of a PAM module and a daemon for which I wrote an init script. 
<trycyt> geser: The PAM module's name is not the same as the daemon's name. 
<geser> bddebian: ask dholbach where he got it from
<geser> trycyt: when you use debhelper, see dh_installinit to ease the installation of the init script
<trycyt> geser: Okay, would this be taken care of in a postinst script then? 
<geser> dh_installinit copies the file script to the right location and inserts the needed commands into postinst/prerm to register/unregister the init scruot
<trycyt> Very cool. 
<trycyt> What would be the best way to ask (at install-time) for the user to pick which files to make symlinks to? 
<trycyt> The package needs symlinks to be made to certain programs, but depending on the user's preference, it could totally alter the behavior of the program. 
<trycyt> Come to think of it, there are two totally different reasons for the package and there are dependencies for each that are not needed for the other. 
<geser> the only way to ask questions at install time is debconf
<trycyt> It's the equivalent of startkde or gnome-session being in .xinitrc.  Depending on whichever is placed in the file, either GNOME and KDE need to be installed. 
<trycyt> That's basically what I'm going to have to do. 
<geser> if you need to change user files, then it's a no-go
<stgraber> shawarma: do you have a ubuntu-desktop-i386 Herd5 on your server ?  I'm downloading at only 40Kb/s on cdimage.u.c ...
<trycyt> geser: No, maybe an example would make this clearer.  User types apt-get install mypackage.  Ideally, something pops up asking, "Would you like to use method 1 or method 2?"  If the user picks method 1, mypackage installs dependency package 1, and if the user picks method 2, mypackage installs dependency package 2. 
<Adri2000> bddebian: http://ftp-master.debian.org/removals.txt
<trycyt> How would I achieve that? 
<bddebian> Adri2000: Thx
<trycyt> geser: Then, additionally, update-alternatives is used to create a symlink (which is what the INSTALL file from the upstream author demands). 
<shawarma> stgraber: I don't have the herd-images.  I can fetch it for you though. 
<trycyt> geser: The symlink serves to alert the target program what backend to use. 
<trycyt> geser: It's kind of a complicated goal, but I'm hoping it's doable. 
<bddebian> Where the hell did that package come from
<trycyt> bddebian: Are you referring to me? 
<bddebian> No, sorry, flatnuke
<geser> trycyt: afaik you can't install additional software during installation as apt-get/dpkg is running and holding a lock
<shawarma> stgraber: It'll be done in 4 minutes.  I'll give you the url then. 
<geser> bddebian: perhaps debian mentors
<stgraber> shawarma: this cdimage.u.c is really slow and it's not better from my dedicated server :) (so no problem with my own connection)
<trycyt> geser: So, how would you approach this then?  Build two separate packages? 
<trycyt> geser: So there will be something like mypackage-method-1 and mypackage-method-2 ? 
<geser> trycyt: would something like Depends: package_1 | package_2 be sufficient? 
<stgraber> pochu: Hi, you pinged me this morning (a bit early for me :)), was it for something else than the mail you sent me ? 
<trycyt> geser: I didn't know you could do such a thing, that would be sufficient. 
<shawarma> stgraber: try http://linux2go.dk/feisty-desktop-i386.iso
<pochu> stgraber: for that was ;)
<trycyt> geser: Hehe, I always think of the most complicated solutions. 
<pochu> stgraber: thanks for the answer :)
<stgraber> np
<stgraber> shawarma: thank you, 600kB/s is really way better :)
<shawarma> stgraber: How much bw do you have? 
<stgraber> My home bandwidth should have been raised to 800kB/s but it wasn't so I still have 650kb/s maximum
<shawarma> stgraber: Ok, then 600kB/s sounds very fair. :-) 
<stgraber> yes :)
<KenSentMe> I run this command to create a package: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot .  But i get this error on Dapper: found eof where expected more change data or trailer at /usr/lib/dpkg/parsechangelog/debian line 136, <STDIN> line 21.  dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is.   What could be the problem? 
<stgraber> shawarma: and I can download at around 4.5Mb/s from your server to mine
<geser> KenSentMe: could you put your changelog into a paste-bin? 
<bddebian> KenSentMe: You are either missing the tarball or your packagename/version is incorrect
<KenSentMe> geser, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10225/
<crimsun> stgraber: issues should be fixed with next kernel upload (hopefully tonight)
<shawarma> stgraber: Where's your server? 
<stgraber> crimsun: yep, I've seen the git changelog, thank you (and that's an amazing bugfix list :))
<shawarma> KenSentMe: heh.  I like your nick. 
<stgraber> shawarma: klein-edv, germany
<KenSentMe> bddebian, where can there be an incorrect packagename/version?  control, foldername, changelog? 
<crimsun> stgraber: the actual number of bugs is nearly twice that
<KenSentMe> shawarma, me too :D
<shawarma> stgraber: Ok.  Mine's in Germany, too..
<geser> KenSentMe: check the whitespace at the beginning of line 20, it should be only one space before the --
<KenSentMe> shawarma, i first had leisuresuitlarry, but with the new version of the game i had to think of a new one for the real larry lovers
<KenSentMe> geser, fixed that, but same error
<trycyt> Is there any way to store the result of what apt matches from Depends: option1 | option2 ? 
<trycyt> Like if option1 exists, I want to perform a symlink to /path/to/option1/executable, or if option2 exists, I want to perform a symlink to /path/to/option1/executable
<bddebian> KenSentMe: What directory are your running dpkg-buildpackage from? 
<KenSentMe> bddebian, ~/packages/campsite/campsite-2.6.7
<geser> bddebian: flatnuke in Ubuntu can be affected by CVE-2005-2813, CVE-2005-2814 and CVE-2005-2816
<bddebian> geser: WTF are those? 
<geser> the last should be CVE-2005-2815
<bddebian> KenSentMe: And you have campsite_2.6.7.orig.tar.gz in ~/packages/campsite ? 
<geser> bddebian: CVE = Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures
<bddebian> Where are those? 
<KenSentMe> bddebian, yes, it's there
<geser> bddebian: http://cve.mitre.org/
<trycyt> geser: Would you happen to know if that's possible? 
<trycyt> geser: If it's sort of like an sh syntax where I could store the boolean somewhere, that would be ideal. 
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<trycyt> geser: Then, in the postinst, I could just update-alternatives to the appropriate binary. 
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi bddebian and ajmitch
<bddebian> KenSentMe: can you pastebin the exact command and error? 
<KenSentMe> bddebian, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10232/
<bddebian> KenSentMe: Something is still wrong with line 20.   Did you use dch -i to insert the new changelog entry? 
<KenSentMe> bddebian, no, i used nano and edited the lines myself.  I followed this guide: http://code.campware.org/projects/campsite/wiki/HowToBuildDebPackage
<geser> trycyt: as you know where the binaries are located, couldn't you simply test which is there? 
<KenSentMe> bddebian, yep found it.  There was still a space too much
<bddebian> KenSentMe: Great
<KenSentMe> bddebian, now fix some other errors :)
* jdong hugs crimsun
<crimsun> just get me an X60 so I can fix sabdfl's sound once and for all
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> w00t crimsun
<stgraber> crimsun: Your house would be full of hardware if every time something doesn't work you receive the hardware to get it working :)
* bddebian 's house is full of hardware
<crimsun> my house is apparently already full of bug reports
<bddebian> wife keeps bitching about electricity bill
<Adri2000> jdong: do you have any idea about http://librarian.launchpad.net/6335769/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.avidemux_1%3A2.3.0-0.0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? 
<jdong> Adri2000: it's been boggling my mind
<jdong> Adri2000: I cannot explain why it builds on 2 other arches just fine, in arch-independent prep stage
<jdong> Adri2000: FWIW it builds perfectly in my pbuilders
<crimsun> mv: cannot stat `t-fr.gmo': No such file or directory
<crimsun> make[4] : *** [fr.gmo]  Error 1
<crimsun>  ^^
<Adri2000> but why it doesn't fail on other arches...
<Adri2000> jdong: did you ask tfheen? 
<crimsun> I'm suspicious of `t-fr.gmo'
<crimsun> translated? 
<jdong> Adri2000: a long time ago I did poke and e-mail infinity but never got a response
<jdong> (this was like 1wk after that upload)
<Adri2000> I don't know what's the "t-" before "fr"
<Adri2000> jdong: just tried to build it in my pbuilder, it fails too
<Adri2000> same error
<jdong> Adri2000: bleh :-/
<Toadstool> damn french, always involved in dodgy stuff :)
* Toadstool waves
<Adri2000> :P
* StevenK idly wonders if he's missed the techboard meeting
<Ash-Fox> I truely wonder why the Kubuntu team set OOo as a default package http://sphinx.quickfox.org/~ash-fox/temp/OOo1.png x.x
<shawarma> Ash-Fox: Argh!  
<sistpoty> StevenK: it's interrupted, since sabdfl is not around 
<StevenK> Ah, right.  Is it likely to re-start? 
<sistpoty> StevenK: no idea really...
<sistpoty> <mdz> I'll be around for a while if he turns up, but will be on the phone
<sistpoty> ^^ last words in the channel ;)
<StevenK> Heh, right
<shawarma> Adri2000: It doesn't happen here..
<Adri2000> shawarma: building in pbuilder? 
<shawarma> Adri2000: But I know where "t-" comes from. 
<shawarma> Adri2000: Yes. 
<Adri2000> :|
<shawarma> Adri2000: Ah... I think I know what the trouble is. 
<shawarma> Adri2000: Gimme a sec. 
<sistpoty> crimsun, ajmitch, gpocentek: just trying to write an introductory mail about Lure to ubuntu-devel, but as always it's (too) short: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10237/
<sistpoty> or Lure: maybe you'd like to introduce yourself on the ubuntu-devel list? 
<Toadstool> an introductory mail for new devs?  it's actually a really good idea! :) 
<sistpoty> Toadstool: it's mdz's idea, t.b.h ;)
<Toadstool> heh, ok
<sistpoty> <- doesn't have good ideas *g*
<bddebian> Yeah, but he needs to include their nicks :-)
<Lure> sistpoty: your text is OK with me
<Lure> sistpoty: and I think it is better if MC does announcement
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs. 
<sistpoty> Lure: ok, anything I should add to it? 
<sistpoty> Hi TheMuso
<shawarma> Adri2000: Ha!  This time it failed. 
<shawarma> Adri2000: Which almost proves my theory. 
<shawarma> Adri2000: hang on. 
* Adri2000 wants the theory
<Lure> sistpoty: only "most probably" sounds strange to me, the rest is OK (more info is anyway on wiki)
<sistpoty> Lure: ok, and good idea about the wiki :)
<shawarma> Adri2000: Patience.. :-)
<sistpoty> Lure: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10243/ better? 
<jdong> shawarma: does it randomly fail? 
<jdong> well that would be like the French
<Lure> sistpoty: you can add also #ubuntu-motu (but this is anyway expected), otherwise it is fine
<sistpoty> Lure: ok, will do... thanks for proofreading
<sistpoty> mail sent :)
<shawarma> jdong: Well.. Yes, I suppose it does. 
<jdong> shawarma: so we just give-back it 25 times and it'll eventually produce a binary for every arch
* jdong ducks
<shawarma> Adri2000: Well, I have a fix.  I'd just like to know where the bug actually is. :-) 
<shawarma> Adri2000: Because if it really is where I think it is, I don't understand why this is the only package that fails. 
<Adri2000> shawarma: explain what would be the fix :)
<shawarma> Adri2000: 2 sec, I'll create a debdiff. 
<Adri2000> ok
<shawarma> A hint: It might as well have happened on any or all of the other archs. 
<Toadstool> shawarma: Adri2000 needs a pony^Wfix!!1 :)
<shawarma> Heh..
<shawarma> http://linux2go.dk/avidemux.diff
<shawarma> Simple as that. 
<shawarma> Should I upload it? 
<Adri2000> hmm, if it works, sure :p
<shawarma> coolio. 
<shawarma> I'll just test it one more time. 
<shawarma> does it make sense or should I explain? 
<danohuiginn> hi all.  I'm adding a .desktop file to a package
<danohuiginn>  How do I make sure it gets removed from the gnome/kde menus properly when the package is uninstalled? 
<Adri2000> shawarma: I need some explanations yes :)
<Adri2000> danohuiginn: you don't, dpkg removes the .desktop file when removing the package and that's all
<danohuiginn> Adri2000: but it doesn't actually get removed from the menus (in kde at least)
<shawarma> another hint: "make -j 2"
<danohuiginn> until you call update-desktop-database
<danohuiginn> (or restart or something, presumably)
<ivoks> Lure: hi :)
<Adri2000> danohuiginn: with gnome if I move a .desktop file outside /usr/share/applications/, it immediately disappears from the gnome menu
<Lamego> hello, what distro name do we need to specify on the changelog to be able to upload to REVU ? 
<geser> Lamego: there is no requirement but you should insert the name of the current development version (now: feisty)
<Lamego> well, I am getting "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution." 
<danohuiginn> Adri2000: if I do that in KDE, the menu item is still there.  if I click on it, I crash Kicker
<bddebian> Later gang
<Adri2000> shawarma: it runs 2 jobs simultaneously?  fr and es on the buildd
<geser> Lamego: than you uploaded to Ubuntu and not revu
<Adri2000> later bddebian
<Lamego> ops, dput was supposed to be pointing to revu :P
<Adri2000> danohuiginn: ah, I don't know anything about kde
<danohuiginn> ok, Adri2000.  Thanks anyway
<danohuiginn> I'll ask over in #kubuntu-devel
<Lamego> geser, you were correct
<geser> danohuiginn: man dh_desktop if you use debhelper
<psusi> anyone know who the heck decides the mime type for troff is application/x-troff instead of text/?   and what teeth I have to pull to change it? 
<danohuiginn> thanks, geser.  The man page is pretty uninformative; I'll have a look for dh_desktop docs elsewhere though
<esaym> how would I remove dependency requirements for a package that I am going to backport?  
<esaym> I can't just edit the dsc file.   Something in the source tar still has the dependencies in it
<Adri2000> esaym: the (build-)dependencies are specified in debian/control
<esaym> Adri2000: Is this "debian/control" inside the source somewhere? 
<TheMuso> esaym: Yes
<Adri2000> esaym: yes, you downloaded the source package with apt-get source? 
<esaym> not apt-get source but manually through packages.ubuntu.com/ 
<esaym> so there should be a file called "debian/control" in the root source directory? 
<Adri2000> that's fine too if you downloaded orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and .dsc
<esaym> yea
<Adri2000> dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<Adri2000> then go into the source directory, and debian/ directory
<esaym> some don't have the diff.gz though
<TheMuso> Note that packages.ubuntu.com can be out of date. 
<Adri2000> yes, they are native packages
<esaym> hmm one sec
<esaym> hmm, yea no debian directory :-/
<TheMuso> esaym: ? 
<Adri2000> esaym: name of the package? 
<TheMuso> There should always be a debian directory, even with native packages. 
<esaym> libgpod
<esaym> one sec I will get it for you
<Adri2000> I got it
<TheMuso> esaym: What version do you have? 
<Adri2000> $ pwd
<Adri2000> /home/adri2000/packaging/libgpod/libgpod-0.4.2/debian
<TheMuso> Doesn't look like a native package to me
<esaym> http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/libs/libgpod-common
<Adri2000> that's a binary package
<esaym> and from there I got the source linked at the bottom: libgpod_0.4.2.orig.tar.gz] 
<esaym> Is that wrong? 
<TheMuso> You have only got one file for the source package. 
<TheMuso> esaym: Get the package source by using apt-get source.  Its a lot easier. 
<Adri2000> Source Package: libgpod, Download: [dsc]  [libgpod_0.4.2.orig.tar.gz]  [libgpod_0.4.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz]  
<Adri2000> you need the two other files (.dsc and diff.gz)
<Adri2000> the diff.gz contains the debian/ directory ;)
<esaym> diff.gz was a text file?? 
<TheMuso> Probably because your browser decompressed it. 
<TheMuso> You need to actually download the file. 
<trycyt> geser: I could do that.  I'm an autotools kind of guy, so when I have to work with packages that don't use autotools, I get this sort of mess. 
<esaym> I did and I saved it.   I extract it and it is just a text file
<TheMuso> When dpkg-source unpacks a source package, it first unpacks the orig tarball, then applies the .diff.gz file to the unpacked source. 
<TheMuso> So it is a text file of a patch, which essentially creates the debian directory. 
<esaym> hmm, so with apt-get source that will be all automatic? 
<TheMuso> Yes. 
<TheMuso> It will fetch everything, and if you have dpkg-source, it will unpack it for you straight away. 
<esaym> well crap, hope I didn't just wast 6 hours :-\
<esaym> waste
<TheMuso> esaym: And as I said before, packages.ubuntu.com can get rather out of date. 
<esaym> I see, thank you
<TheMuso> np
<esaym> well what do I need to add to my source.list to download feisty sources from my dapper install? 
<esaym> oh wait I think I figured it out
<esaym> one sec
<TheMuso> Oh you are still running dapper? 
<TheMuso> Well I would advise you to set up a feisth pbuilder chroot. 
<TheMuso> feisty even
<esaym> I got a dapper pbuilder root
<esaym> I am trying to back port the libgpod from fiesty
<TheMuso> But if you want to work on packages for feisty, you need to make sure they build on feisty. 
<TheMuso> oh ok
<esaym> yea, I am just building for dapper
<esaym> Am I ok? 
<esaym> lol
<TheMuso> yeah thats fine then,. 
<esaym> ok, wish me luck :)
* jdong enjoys cheap laugh at awful LISP joke
<shawarma> Adri2000: Sorry to take off like that.  My network connection is... funnny. 
<shawarma> Adri2000: about avidemux:
<shawarma> Adri2000: It's because the .gmo files were generated both in all-yes target and the stamp-po target, but due to "-j 2" this happened simultaneously.  In the .gmo target it moves some files around causing race conditions. 
<shawarma> shawarma_: You smell funny
<shawarma> what the..
<esaym> anyone have a link to a fiesty source.list? 
<jdong> I've got 1 hard link to it on my computer
* jdong ducks
<esaym> lol, can you paste it anywhere for me real quick? 
<jdong> esaym: those don't work across different filesystems ;-)
<shawarma> esaym: http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic/
<esaym> oh cool
<esaym> thank you
<shawarma> np
<shawarma> what? 
<StevenK> imbrandon: So, where did intrepid go? 
<danohuiginn> hi.  anyone here got time to review two simple patches?  bug 91694 and bug 91695
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 91694 in cgoban "No .desktop file" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91694
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 91695 in gtkgo "Missing a .desktop file" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91695
<danohuiginn> both just adding in application menu items
<TheMuso> I'm having a look at the first one now. 
<danohuiginn> thanks, TheMuso
<crimsun> I'll look at 91695, then
<danohuiginn> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> (I actually just finished looking at 91694)
<TheMuso> crimsun: oh ok
<crimsun> TheMuso: feel free to work on 91694 :)
<TheMuso> ok will do. 
<TheMuso> This gives me a break from a11y bug work. :) 
<crimsun>   gtkgo_0.0.10-14ubuntu1_source.changes: done. 
<crimsun> Successfully uploaded packages. 
<crimsun> thanks, danohuiginn 
<crimsun> danohuiginn: in the future, mind the colon following "LP"
<danohuiginn> np and thanks, crimsun
<TheMuso> oh man! 
<TheMuso> This package so needs debhelper love. 
<danohuiginn> ok
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: You don't need to worry about it for now. 
<TheMuso> Just commenting on the rules file. 
<danohuiginn> cgoban, TheMuso?  yes, but I don't think it gets updated much anyway
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Right. 
<crimsun> oh man, I remember when we used to announce the first uploads of new -dev
<crimsun> (dunno why that suddenly stuck in my mind)
<danohuiginn> oh, could you check they uninstall properly?  I just reported bug 92062, but I guess it could be something I did wrong in those packages
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92062 in meta-kde "[feisty]  removing .desktop files doesn't update kde menus" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92062
<ajmitch> crimsun: yeah, I remember that happening for me, way way back then
<TheMuso> I think this new approach is somewhat better. 
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: There is a slight error in your diff, relating to where the desktop file gets copied.  I can fix it easily enough, but can you please ensure you test build the package before submitting a diff? 
<TheMuso> for cgoban
<TheMuso> Also, any extra files, such as the .desktop file must go into the debian directory. 
<trycyt> I was trying to make a script that did basically what uupdate / uscan do (because obviously, I didn't know they existed), but in the sample watch.ex generated by dh_make, I see: # http://sf.net/libpam-cups/libpam-cups-(.*)\.tar\.gz
<TheMuso> If they aren't part of the upstream tarball. 
<trycyt> sf.net/libpam-cups doesn't exist. 
<trycyt> I thought the new format was sourceforge.net/projects/projectname? 
<danohuiginn> thanks, TheMuso.  I didn't know about putting things in the debian directory
<danohuiginn> you want me to make another diff, or will you fix it? 
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Don't worry about it for now, the fix is trivial. 
<TheMuso> But just remember that for next time. 
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Just say that the desktop file was in the top directory of the source.  It would not be included in the original tarball, but in the debian diff file.  If there was a new upstream version, it is likely that the desktop file may clash with a newly created file in the upstream source, which causes problems. 
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Files being in the debian directory allows things to be sorted out a lot more easily when upgrading the package. 
<danohuiginn> *nods*
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: In fact, I will get you to make another diff.  I have just noticed another slight problem. 
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: The dh_desktop command comes from the debhelper package, which is not a build dependancy. 
<TheMuso> If you can fix that, plus the desktop file location and prod me when you have another diff, that would be great. 
<danohuiginn> Yes, I experimented with dpatch on one of them, but it was getting more complicated (and undocumented) than I was ready for
<danohuiginn> OK.  I'll do that
* sistpoty is off now... cya
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Thanks. 
* TheMuso returns to bug triajing. 
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Here is some further reading on setting up a build environment for building packages.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-14
<danohuiginn> oh!  Thanks, TheMuso, I had never heard of pbuilder; I'll have a look at it
<shawarma_> Adri2000: There.  Uploaded the new avidemux. 
<jdong> awesome, thanks, shawarma_
<shawarma_> jdong: no
<shawarma_> er..
<shawarma_> i meant "np", of course. :-) 
<jdong> shawarma_: well fine don't take my politeness ;-)
* jdong angrily notices that xgl 0.0.1 has been tagged upstream
<shawarma_> jdong: You're angry?  Wait till you tell crimsun. :-) 
<shawarma_> jdong: /win 4
<shawarma_> jdong: Or not
<jdong> shawarma_: shhhh :) I'm planning on not worrying about it unless I get a bugreport about xglSetFonts()
<jdong> or whatever that borken command is
<shawarma_> New bug: #92081 in xserver-xgl (main) "xglSetFonts() is b0rk3n" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/92081
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92081 in synaptic "[apport]  synaptic crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<shawarma_> Ah, busted. 
<jdong> shawarma_: lol
<jdong> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commit;h=513d88cc87cfaa0efb5fe23db4ecee020e0b8efd
<shawarma_> Ubugtu: Thanks a lot. :-( 
<jdong> that changeset....
<jdong> it's like a 10-line diff of replacing 'n' with 'i'
<shawarma_> jdong: Yeah, just saw it. 
<shawarma_> jdong: Looks important in a subtle kind of way. 
<jdong> yeah I keep thinking we'll see something break because of it not being available
<jdong> let me see if it applies without the 10 other syncing commits :)
<jussi01> can someone tell me how to find astraljava's bzr branches?  I looked on launchpad under ubuntu studio but I can seem to figure out which ones are his branches...
<jdong> ooh it does
<shawarma_> jdong: You remember me not knowing about bsg?  I looked around and it turns out it's hasn't on Danish tv before some time in January this year.. No wonder I didn't know about it. 
<jdong> heh
<jdong> interesting
<shawarma_> "it's hasn't on"?  what the..
<jdong> would this patch need approval from uvf folks again or can anyone sponsor it? 
<shawarma_> jdong: It wouldn't need UFVe approval, no. 
<shawarma_> jdong: It's just a bugfix. 
<jdong> okie, I'll prepare up a patch and test it
<jdong> I'm gonna wager a guess and say that arbitrary broken OpenGL calls should be fixed ;-)
<shawarma> xserver-xgl... It's only fglrx users who need it, isn't it? 
<jdong> shawarma: yeah, which is still significant... and also nvidia legacy and Geforce4 <=MX440 say Xgl is faster
<shawarma> jdong: Sure it's significant.  It's just amazing how much work everyone else has to do because ATI are lazy bastards. 
<jdong> yeah, it's unfortunate no doubt
<jdong> but as long as I have an ATI card I'll do all I can to get eyecandy on them :)
<jdong> shawarma: I can almost assure you that the first 6 months of their future AIGLX-compatible driver will be riddled with hardlocks and bugs....
<jdong> so Xgl will still have to be used long into the future for fglrx users. 
* jdong waits for build
<shawarma> I'm no GL expert.  At all.  Nevertheless, texture_from_pixmap sounds like the most basic function call imaginable.  How would one do anything useful without being able to create a texture from a pixmap? 
<jdong> well I guess it wasn't necessary before the day of desktop compositing
<jdong> and fglrx has much more serious work than making textures from pixmaps
<jdong> right now you can't even use composite with hardware acceleration. 
<shawarma> I don't even know what composite does (apart from enable desktop bling). 
* ajmitch returns
<jdong> shawarma: I'm no expert on X crap, but I think it allows you to draw a window on an off-screen buffer
<jdong> then have X be able to put it on the screen, etc. 
<shawarma> jdong: => bling?  Cool. 
<jdong> yeah , I think that's probably the first step towards bling
<jdong> Beryl I know can operate solely from the composite extension
<jdong> (though very inefficiently
<shawarma> Ok. 
<shawarma> jdong: Do you use beryl or compiz? 
<Slant_Laptop> I have a package patch for slab / gnome-main-menu.  Is it worth it to get REVU access, or can I just post the debdiff to the relevant bugs and someone else will get to it? 
<jdong> I have both around, but personally I prefer Beryl for myself
<jdong> I like what they've added, and the extreme amount of customizability too
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop: Are there bugs on launchpad for it? 
<jdong> but Compiz would be more appropriate for a more professional-use oriented system. 
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop: If so, just attach the debdiffs there and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<jdong> it captures a lot of the usability features of compositing without obnoxious effects :)
<Slant_Laptop> shawarma: Thanks. 
<shawarma> jdong: I used to like it, too.  At some point, though, they thought they were smart, and made the settings-manager thing check if a certain key combo did more than one thing.  Since then, I've ditched it.  I need <Alt>Button1 to do two things. 
<shawarma> jdong: I need it to initiate window move AND raise the window. 
<jdong> shawarma: ah, interesting.  I haven't ran into problems like that yet... there's just some Beryl features I really come to love and depend on. 
<shawarma> jdong: I think the window preview thing is really cool. 
<jdong> shawarma: ring task switcher, transparent cube, 3D elevated windows, window preview, invert color scheme.....
<shawarma> jdong: Of course I've been too frickin' lazy to file a bug. 
<shawarma> jdong: invert color scheme??!  For what? 
<jdong> shawarma: i.e. try reading a 60 page black on white PDF. 
<jdong> it begins to hurt.  very soon. 
<shawarma> jdong: I do it all the time.  I prefer to read on my computer. 
<jdong> and it takes all the burn out of annoying neon-pink on neon-green color schemes too. 
<jdong> shawarma: well my eyes benefit from being able to invert colors
<Slant_Laptop> shawarma: Done.  LP #63096. 
<Slant_Laptop> shawarma: Thanks. 
<jdong> and it also becomes easier to view on lowest LCD brightness
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop: Oh, thank you! 
<shawarma> jdong: I have an intel graphics card so I try to keep the bling at a pretty low level. 
<jdong> shawarma: Quinn only has a 915 and it's working for her as a developer :)
<jdong> shawarma: the effects I mentioned are pretty polite on the graphics card
<jdong> except transparent cube
<shawarma> jdong: She does?  Interesting. 
<jdong> yeah, surprised me a lot at first, too :)
<shawarma> jdong: It's good to know, though. 
<shawarma> jdong: That way we know that there's focus on performance on low-end cards, too. 
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> the last thing I want to see our 3D compositing do is to require elitist GPU's
<jdong> like some Other OS. 
<jdong> well gonna restart Xgl and test that patch
<jdong> :)
<shawarma> I actually saw vista run on a laptop with intel 945 graphics..
<shawarma> I didn't look all that bad. 
<shawarma> Oh, he left. 
* ajmitch spots a Hobbsee mini-rant 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: *grin*
<shawarma> ? 
<shawarma> Oh. 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee saying "stay out of our area!"  
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm concerned about how big the MOTU is attemtping to extend itself, when the reasons these separate subcouncils, etc, were created, was to stop the CC/TB doing exactly the same thing. 
<ajmitch> I'm concerned that the proposal was to dump snapshots in universe & not support them afterwards, meaning that it'd be a waste of MOTU time
<Hobbsee> MOTU doesnt work on kde for the most part anyway
<Hobbsee> i fail to see that changing anytime soon
<jdong> whee it works
<Hobbsee> but you're right.   they're snapshots, and are obviously treated as such.   anyone who knows about KDE4 realises that. 
<jdong> anyone careth to sponsor http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/xgl/fix-xgl-calls.debdiff
<jdong> small patch pulled from upstream git
<ajmitch> and being in universe, lots of people won't know all the details about kde4 & will install them
<ajmitch> "ooh new shiny!" 
<jdong> (fixes some broken OpenGL calls)
<jdong> ajmitch: 4>3, right?  :D
<ajmitch> yep
<shawarma> jdong: As I was saying.  I actually saw Vista run on a laptop with intel 945 graphics..
<shawarma> jdong: It didn't look all that bad. 
<jdong> shawarma: my roomie has Vista running on a GMA950
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true.   and they wont read package descriptions, etc, either, because people dont read. 
<shawarma> jdong: I'm guessing that was what you were referring to. 
<jdong> shawarma: it ran the basics well
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: they're users. 
<Hobbsee> which also means that they may not read enough to get to the right section of LP, hopefully. 
<shawarma> jdong: Oh, it's the only time I've ever seen Vista.  I don't know how much or how little was enabled. 
<jdong> shawarma: but start actually _using_ the compositor's API rather than looking at the alt-tab effects, and boy it just dies
<ajmitch> it's getting too easy to file bugs now
* Hobbsee has to go to work today, and isnt terribly happy about that, either
<Hobbsee> exactly. 
<Hobbsee> i'm starting to think we need a bug which says "your bug did not contain enough info" and just mark all the silly bugs as dupes of that.   or something. 
<Slant_Laptop_> shawarma: Is there any way to check if the debdiff is being handled by someone?  I guess what I'm asking is is there any feedback outside of subscribing motu-sponsors and waiting? 
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop_: I just remembered.  gnome-main-menu is not in universe. 
<Slant_Laptop> shawarma: Oh? 
<Slant_Laptop> Haha.  Is it not now? 
<Slant_Laptop> Uh. 
<Slant_Laptop> Section: universe/gnome
<Hobbsee> slab appears to be in universe, yes. 
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop_: what the..
<jdong> yeah it's universe....
<shawarma> It WAS in main for while, wasn't it? 
* Slant_Laptop kicks his clients. 
<Slant_Laptop> shawarma: slab wasn't ever in main, I don't think. 
* shawarma puts the crack pipe away
<shawarma> Oh, well. 
<esaym> anyone backported python2.5?   
<jdong> that requires like a massive python subsystem backport :)
<esaym> I am trying to do it for dapper using the fiesty source.   I get this error though http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10290/
<Hobbsee> jdong: you should do it.   you like crack, remember? 
<jdong> Hobbsee: not that much crack :)
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop: Well... You can hang around here and poke people until something happens. 
<jdong> Hobbsee: yay Xgl is uploaded, my day is all the brighter :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<esaym> jdong: how much is "massive"  I from what I see it's about 5 
<Hobbsee> massive == too many == more than he wants to
<Slant_Laptop> shawarma: Mainly I'd like to be personally yelled at if there is something wrong with the patch, so I can "not do that" in future submissions. 
<jdong> esaym: you need all the python-central and dh_python stuff too
<Slant_Laptop> In the past, I'd just attach source changes. 
<Slant_Laptop> Then maintainers would say, "post a debdiff." 
<jdong> esaym: and that will also cause all python modules to need to be adapted to the new python buildsystem.....
<Slant_Laptop> Then I'd post debdiff wo/ changelogs... etc.  Progressio. 
<jdong> esaym: when py2.5 went in to Edgy I remember doko uploading new versions of like 50 python extensions.....
<Slant_Laptop> So now it's a complete debdiff w/ changelog and all. 
* Slant_Laptop shrugs. 
<esaym> hmm
<esaym> But any clue to why I get that error I posted? 
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop: Heh... Yeah, we're tough to please. :-) 
<shawarma> Slant_Laptop: I'm waaay to tired to do anything about it right now.  Sorry. 
<esaym> I am not trying to backport all of the python stuff.   I just need python defaults2.5 and that requires python2.5.   All for libgpod4.2
<esaym> but I am stuck on that error
<jdong> esaym: you're trying to backport libgpod? 
<esaym> yea rofl
<jdong> btw you'd need to recompile every app that links to libgpod too if you do that
<jdong> otherwise it will WRITE CORRUPT ITUNESDB FILES
<jdong> i.e. it doesn't just crash on start
<jdong> that'd be too kind
<jdong> it actually eats your iTunesDB and inserts bogus information
<esaym> I was going to make a backports of gtkpod and libgpod
<jdong> I would not recommend distributing any libgpod backports
<jdong> it's fine if you want to do it for yourself....
<esaym> well yea I was going to do it for myself and see what happeneds
<jdong> but the effects of the libgpod ABI break are too dangerous to propagate
<esaym> hmm, thanks for the headsup though
<jdong> yeah, np
<jdong> don't want you to spend a weekend re-building an iTunesDB too
<shawarma> jdong: gtkpod keeps backups around nowadays, doesn't it? 
<jdong> and not a peep outta any of you about backups :)
<jdong> shawarma: that wasn't the problem
<jdong> I was aiming to build gtkpod anyway
<shawarma> jdong: oh? 
<jdong> that was the point of new libgpod for me
<jdong> but when I plugged my iPod in RHYTHMBOX started
<jdong> and found the iPod
<jdong> and.... yeah....
<jdong> ow. 
<shawarma> That's teach you not to.. well.. do stuff! 
<esaym> well everything should be fine if I am using both gtkpod and libgpod from fiesty right? 
<shawarma> Depends. 
<jdong> esaym: you need to rebuild every libgpod using app
<shawarma> If gnome-volume-manager starts up rhythmbox or something when you plug in your ipod...
<jdong> esaym: or remember NEVER EVER open them
<jdong> jdong@severance:~$ apt-cache rdepends libgpod1 libgpod0 | wc -l
<jdong> 15
<jdong> yeah, all of those. 
<esaym> so if I open amarok and close it, the next time I use gtkpod it would corrupt? 
<jdong> esaym: yeah, opening amarok will likely damage your iTunesDB
<shawarma> That is *so* broken. 
<jdong> esaym: you can tell because the iPod will not play any of the songs anymore
<jdong> esaym: and when you look @ it with gtkpod, they all have lengths of some -3888s
<esaym> jdong: but even if the ipod is not connected at the time amarok is opened? 
<jdong> esaym: it's fine if it wasn't connected
<shawarma> esaym: Yes.  Weird isn't it? 
<jdong> in other words, unless you're gonna DIE without new libgpod, don't do it
<jdong> one day you're gonna accidentally open up one of these apps with your iPod connected
<esaym> well I was just bored actually
<jdong> and feel really stupid :)
<jdong> repeat: in other words, unless you're gonna DIE without new libgpod, don't do it
<esaym> saw some people complaining on the forums for suppport for it in edgy and dapper
<shawarma> jdong: Has this been reported somewhere?  It's really broken they didn't bump the SONAME or something. 
<jdong> shawarma: it was noted as an "oh btw" in the upload of 0.4.0 to Feisty
<jdong> shawarma: lol
<jdong> esaym: it's not safe to do
* shawarma fires up the crack pipe again
<jdong> esaym: that's one of the first things I tried when I got my iPod
<jdong> (2nd being beating the ffmpeg stack with a long stick)
<esaym> well this freaking sucks, spent like 10 hours on this so far....
<jdong> and then I took a picture of myself beating ffmpeg stack with a stick
<jdong> I took a stack of jewel cases, labeled them "ffmpeg", and  beat it violently with an Apprehender CB-01
<shawarma> jdong: URL? 
<jdong> and don't ask why I have one. 
<esaym> link to the pics? ;) 
<jdong> long story. 
<jdong> ok, ok, forgive me.... I JUST discovered f-spot the other day
<jdong> and am still organizing :D
<jdong> when I come across it I'll be sure to post it somewhere :)
<jdong> "here's jdong beating ffmpeg into shape"
<esaym> well is there a how to for debianizing sources? 
* ajmitch hopes that a pile of f-spot bugs aren't going to be filed soon
<jdong> ajmitch: f-spot is broken f-spot is broken f-spot is broken....
<jdong> lol
* ajmitch wonders if lp admins can remove jdong's account
<jdong> ajmitch: that would probably be good for me.. this physics pset isn't finishing itself
<ajmitch> heh
<Slant_Laptop> Anyone else want to take a look at the diff on #63096 and let me know if there is anything wrong with it? 
<esaym> well yea now that I check it looks like libgpod is buried pretty good 
<esaym> I should have checked that before I spent 10 hours trying to backport it >_<
<esaym> Well anything that I can backport while I am in the mood? 
<esaym> :p
<esaym> hmm
<esaym> at least I know how to do it now I think
<jdong> yeah... prevu <pkg>
<jdong> :)
<esaym> yea I saw that.   Was using pbuilder.   
<jdong> suit yourself :)
<esaym> man I feel worthless now.   I thought that I was going to be "that cool guy that backported libgpod"
<esaym> sad
<esaym> rofl
* esaym gets up for coffee
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jdong> I'm sorry :)
<jdong> what is it with all the SEX on planet? 
<jdong> this is getting ridiculous. 
<jdong> "Could the new Ubuntu Splash get any more phallic?" 
<esaym> well shat
<jdong> before long we'll have apt-cache search sex all over the place. 
<jdong> aww who got rid of libmail-audit-perl?? 
<bddebian> Isn't there already a package called sex? 
<jdong> I demand it back... the "apt-cache search christ on a stick" trick no longer works. 
<shawarma> jdong: http://librarian.launchpad.net/6790790/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-ia64.avidemux_1%3A2.3.0-0.0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<shawarma> Alright!  Just submitted my first patch to beryl. 
<jdong> shawarma: xulrunner apparently still broken on IA64. 
<shawarma> If they're even remotely sane, it will also be my last. :-)  http://bugs.beryl-project.org/ticket/1715
<shawarma> Well, I had fun writing it. 
<shawarma> I'm off to bed, guys. 
<shawarma> Cheers. 
<bddebian> Gnight shawarma
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<ajmitch> crimsun: what was the latest modesetting branch of the i810 driver? 
<crimsun> ajmitch: meaning version in Debian [1.9.91-2]  or the actual URL [http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel.git;a=shortlog;h=modesetting ] ? 
* ajmitch was looking for something suitable for feisty, given that you have a package
<ajmitch> since there seems to be some confusion as to which package does what
<crimsun> ah
<bddebian> Damn I hate it when I get de-motivated
* ajmitch has his laptop & wants to hook it up to a 22" lcd at work
<crimsun> well, I asked Timo a couple days ago about merging 1.9.91-1 (at that time), and he mentioned there needing to be extra defines in -intel due to some code removal
<ajmitch> ok
<crimsun> (I haven't tested 1.9.91-2, just been using the compiled deb from http://tiber.tauware.de/~crimsun/xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting_1.7.2.git20070210-1_i386.deb )
<jdong> crimsun: could you sponsor  http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/xgl/fix-xgl-calls.debdiff? 
<ajmitch> right, I just grabbed the source for that & am rebuilding it
<jdong> crimsun: it's a git-picked upstream patch for fixing a typo that breaks some OpenGL call
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> gah
* Fujitsu thinks that upgrading gnome-session may have been a mistake... gnome-panel died and came back about 20 times, and has now vanished. 
* jdong clears throata
<jdong> throat*
<jdong> We do not know this panel's window ID, and we never will. 
<jdong> We do not know its parent window or its process ID. 
<jdong> We do not know when it was created, or precisely how and when it died
<jdong> We do not know where on the video buffer it had made its home, or when it left for Fujitsu's monitor
<jdong> we do not know its age, or its circumstances -- whether it was from the hard disk or kernel cache. 
<jdong> it's all of them, it's none of us, blah blah, there is faith enough for all of us. 
<jdong> amen. 
<Fujitsu> ...
<jdong> lol wow I'm nerdy....
* LaserJock whistles innocently in the corner
<bddebian> :-)
* Fujitsu notes LaserJock's mail to the list. 
<Fujitsu> I was pondering posting some similar points (ie.  universe is controlled by MOTU, not Kubuntu), but decided not to fan the flames. 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: so I did it instead? :( 
<LaserJock> \o/ I'm getting LP bugmail again! 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Without access to their bugs? 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: But it was a very well written email. 
* Fujitsu applauds LaserJock. 
<LaserJock> too long
<LaserJock> apparently my LP issue was a false alarm
<LaserJock> I was just getting email when a bug was marked private, but not after
<Fujitsu> Ah. 
<LaserJock> and the test bug I tried to see if I could view private bugs had ~launchpad-beta-testers subscribed
<LaserJock> so it was a bad one to try ;-)
<Fujitsu> Heheh. 
<Fujitsu> Private bugs seem to do some strange things. 
<Fujitsu> Like, I've been getting bugmail from a private bug, but can't see it. 
<jdong> private bugs aren't good....
<jdong> they make shampoo for that. 
<jdong> and I think it falls under the TMI category for this channel....
* Fujitsu drops an anvil on jdong. 
<jdong> LMAO
<Fujitsu> I think so. 
* white waves
<Fujitsu> Hey white. 
<LaserJock> hmm, ok so I wonder what "Members who add multiple accounts will be handled in the following manner.  First duplicate account, the member will receive an infraction.  Second duplicate account, the member will be banned."  means? 
<white> somebody here from the kubuntu source wants to do me a favour? :) 
<white> s/source/task/
<Fujitsu> white: What makes it Kubuntu-specific? 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Isn't it pretty obvious what it means? 
<white> kicking a friend of mine who is kde developer, but waits with releasing his software :(
<white> Fujitsu: I reckon the "kde" part in it :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, that's from the Forum Council meeting?  so people aren't allowed to have more than 1 account? 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Looks that way. 
<LaserJock> so much for the stealth accounts
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<LaserJock> bye bddebian 
<Fujitsu> Night bddebian. 
<bluefoxicy> DOes anyone remember the excuse used for Snort in Debian? 
<bluefoxicy> something like "Well the rules aren't GPL any more" so we have ass-old snort? 
<bluefoxicy> (that was what they told me last time; it's a retarded excuse, you can package snort without rules and let users download them, plus I am LOOKING at the download for gpl rules right now..)
<jdong> bluefoxicy: apparently official snort rules aren't DFSG? 
<jdong> bluefoxicy: shall I walk over to RMS's office and ask him?  :D
<bluefoxicy> jdong:  I dunno, that's what I was told for why snort seems abandoned; I'm thinking it's probably really just no maintainer. 
<bluefoxicy> http://www.snort.org/pub-bin/downloads.cgi
<bluefoxicy> "The Community Rulesets contain rules submitted by members of the open source community.  While these rules are available as is, the VRT performs basic tests to ensure that new rules will not break Snort.  These rules are distributed under the GPL and are freely available to all open source Snort users." 
* jdong shrugs
<jdong> debianism. 
<bluefoxicy> I can't find any docs on why it's dead in debian
<bluefoxicy> I'd go ask them but last time I went in there the place was full of assholes and they kicked me out (hint:  If you walk in, ask a simple question, and people don't bother to probe or explain but rather start laughing in all caps at you and then ban you for logging onto IRC as root, you're probably surrounded by assholes)
<bluefoxicy> I think that was what... 4 or 5 years ago, probably when I first switched off mandrake
* Fujitsu grumbles at doko for overwriting some import python-scipy changes in January. 
<jdong> EUREKA!!!  THE TWO POTENTIAL EXPRESSIONS ARE EQUIVALENT
<Lutin> jdong: do you think backporting imagezoom from feisty would be ok for bug #88581 ? ( if the user confirms the bug in edgy)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88581 in imagezoom "mozilla-imagezoom is not compatible with Firefox 2.0.0.x" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88581
<Lathiat> win 21
<Kagou> hi
<trycyt> Why do I get this message when running dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ? 
<trycyt> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<imbrandon> you are trying to sign ( and build ) a package that has a key in the changelog that you dont have access to ( e.g. not yours )
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> heya dholbach 
* Hobbsee waves
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<imbrandon> ello Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach, Hobbsee, imbrandon. 
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach, imbrandon and Fujitsu 
<Hobbsee> hrm, didnt appear to stir up too much trouble on the ML. 
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Probably other people are hiding. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: quite probably
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dunno why though, 'im not that scary.   hopefully they're thinking before they reply
<imbrandon> i havent seen your post
<imbrandon> i think my procmail might be eating some or something
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: lists.u.c has archives
<Hobbsee> dodgy procmail...
<imbrandon> whats the subject ? 
<imbrandon> i'll grep
<Hobbsee> kde4 stuff
<imbrandon> ohh yea i seen that
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, Fujitsu , you should both REALLY listen to this google talk ( about 4 minutes in ) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
<imbrandon> it pertains to that thread ALOT
<imbrandon> ( and many others )
<imbrandon> ( and yes you can fast forward )
* Fujitsu doesn't feel like doing that in this room, as it's got a class of about 15 other people in it. 
<imbrandon> bookmark it later then Fujitsu , you'll like it
<Fujitsu> I believe I saw that referenced elsewhere a couple of days back. 
<StevenK> imbrandon: So where did intrepid go? 
<imbrandon> no where, should be there, /me looks
<imbrandon> shit
<imbrandon> probably asleep
<imbrandon> i forgot to comment out lid.sh /me groans
<StevenK> This is what happens when you use a laptop, you goose.  :-P
<imbrandon> yea i will replace it someday
<ajmitch> a "compact rack unit"
<imbrandon> lemme get someone to reset it, one sec
<TheMuso> haha
<TheMuso> Evening all btw. 
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso 
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso
<imbrandon> gah found out whats wrong with intrepid, jeremy ( at work ) is fixing, should be up in moments StevenK 
<imbrandon> btw aurora and intrepid have the new faster pbuilders on them ( i havent upgraded sparky yet )
* dholbach cleaned out some UVF bugs
<imbrandon> yay \0/
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Yay :)
<Hobbsee> hooray
<imbrandon> StevenK, tis up
<gpocentek> good morning Universe
<Hobbsee> hi mainmain
<Hobbsee> er, main
<Lutin> 'morning gpocentek 
<Fujitsu> Hi gpocentek. 
<gpocentek> hi Hobbsee, hi Fujitsu, salut Lutin ;)
<man-di> wer vin ich
<man-di> aarks
<Fujitsu> Er, hi man-di. 
<man-di> hi
<man-di> Can someone enligthen me how merges with Debian are generelly done?  Just upload the the package from Debian somewhere to Ubuntu? 
<TheMuso> man-di: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<imbrandon> that really wouldent be a merge, that would be a sync ;)
<TheMuso> man-di: man-di and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing
<man-di> thx
<imbrandon> man its great to see all the Ubuntu choices on the Dell poll, 80% of the /. crowd went with ubuntu
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Unsurprising, really. 
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu > *
<imbrandon> it is suprising actualy if you have been arround gnu/linux for any length of time, up untill 2 years ago it would have been split nearly even with 5 diffrent ones, not 80% one and 30% otherrs
<man-di> so, syncing java stuff should not be so hard I think
<imbrandon> man-di, as long as there isnt any ubuntu specific changes ( or ones that have been incorperated upstream )
<imbrandon> otherwise it still needs to be a merge
<man-di> imbrandon: right
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: But then Ubuntu came along.  Ubuntu changed that. 
<man-di> imbrandon: in case of diffs we normally try to create a generic source that just builds different, see eclipse
<imbrandon> hrm crimsun ( or any member of motu-sru ) can i sponsor my own upload to -proposed ? 
<StevenK> From what I recall. 
<imbrandon> w.r.t.  malone bug #92192
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92192 in mod-mono "[SRU]  libapache2-mod-mono uninstallable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92192
<StevenK> mod-mono is supposed to be broken.  Matches Microsoft. 
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i have it fixed on my installation but i would like to fix it for everyone ;)
<imbrandon> shit i did the diff backwords
<imbrandon> oh well
* StevenK installs ubuntu-desktop on intrepid. 
<imbrandon> StevenK, are you pretty sure about that, i hate to upload and get yelled at , hehe
<imbrandon> StevenK, what on earth for ? 
<imbrandon> remote x ?  heh
<StevenK> Gnome is busticated anyway. 
<StevenK> imbrandon: about-window needs a -desktop package
<imbrandon> ahh
* StevenK freshens the base tarball
<StevenK> "... so gnome 2.18 is installable on powerpc and amd64 again"
<StevenK> Bugger! 
<imbrandon> heh
* StevenK switches to Edgy
<dholbach> ??? 
<imbrandon> dholbach, can i sponsor my own upload to -proposed ? 
<dholbach> StevenK: there are some things that did not build, so an upgrade on those archs does not upgrade everything atm
<dholbach> imbrandon: yes, if you're confident in it and have triple checked it
<imbrandon> yes i have, infact i have it inuse on a productin box 
<imbrandon> sooo ;)
<imbrandon> its justa  simple rebuild ( ala bug 92192 )
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92192 in mod-mono "[SRU]  libapache2-mod-mono uninstallable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92192
<dholbach> k
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> hi proppy
* dholbach hugs proppy
<imbrandon> dholbach, ok  mod-mono_1.1.17-3build1~proposed1 uploaded to edgy-proposed, do i need to poke an archive admin to check the saneness of the versioning as per the SRU page ? 
<imbrandon> or .... ( sorry i havent done many sru's yet )
<imbrandon> even though i helped write the darned doc ;)
<dholbach> me neither
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU should be easier now
* StevenK picks on intrepid. 
<imbrandon> heh, leaste its getting some use StevenK ;)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> intrepid needs to be faster.  I could have set up two -desktop packages on my amd64 by now.  :-P
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> someday they will all be speed demons
* imbrandon dreams of an xserv in the rack
<StevenK> Canonical has two for ppc build daemons. :-) 
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> benc was telling me about them in cali
<imbrandon> i was drooling
<imbrandon> a fast arm buildd would be cool too, for nokia stuff
<StevenK> Fast ARMs don't exist.  :-P
<imbrandon> i have a 200mhz mipsel too but i am hesitant to put it in the rack as everythgin would have to be done over nfs 
<imbrandon> as it only has 16mb space
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i heard about soem desktop class arm boxen
<imbrandon> but never seen one myself
<imbrandon> hum looks like the fastest arm desktop i can find in google is a 600mhz intel ARM one
<imbrandon> http://www.embeddedsys.com/subpages/products/armxscalecomputer.shtml
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: I got your email, and I will look at it tomorrow, as I am about to head to bed. 
<danohuiginn> cool.  Thanks, TheMuso.  No hurry, and good night
<shawarma> bmm: How far have you come?  Do you have a package yet or just getting started? 
<bmm> shawarma: I have a package, but now I'm getting to the tedious part: getting all the copyright names corret, writing a missing manual page etc. 
<shawarma> bmm: right.  You can upload it to revu if you want to get pointers on where to go from there.  You can also just upload it anyway to show that you're working in it. 
<shawarma> Hmm.. How does this bot thing work? 
<shawarma> ! revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<shawarma> Yay! 
<shawarma> bmm: ^^
<bmm> Ok, so no real ITP or anything to close in the first ChangeLog entry :-D
<bmm> I read about REVU already, also joined the contributers to motu etc. 
<bmm> Now I just need to sign, do the copyright, the simple manual and then upload. 
<bmm> shawarma: thanks for the help
<shawarma> Pretty much. 
<shawarma> bmm: No problem. 
<shawarma> bmm: What was the package again? 
<bmm> shawarma: iolanguage, the io language interperter ( http://www.iolanguage.com )
<shawarma> bmm: Ok. 
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you around? 
<shawarma> I'm looking at the beryl wiki and it says to put "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" in my xorg.conf.  I haven't done that and beryl seems to work anyway.  Do any of you know what it's supposed to do? 
<Hobbsee> shawarma: ask in #beryl
<shawarma> Tried it.  
<shawarma> No luck. 
<shawarma> twice, even. 
<imbrandon> it just speeds up the rendering on some cards
<imbrandon> if it works well without it dont worry
<shawarma> Well, if it could make it even smoother that would be cool. 
<Amaranth> shawarma: XaaNoOffscreenPixmaps kills performance when you aren't using compiz/beryl but without it you get rendering bugs
<Amaranth> like windows that only have a background, no text or widgets
<Amaranth> XAA must die
<shawarma> Amaranth: Oh!  I've seen this happen loads of times. 
<shawarma> Amaranth: I just thought i was a bug somewhere. 
<dholbach> Hobbsee: now
<Adri2000> hmm, I uploaded freesci 0.3.5-4ubuntu2 (rebuild) and forgot to change the maintainer, dpkg said nothing, strange
<geser> Adri2000: not even a warning? 
<geser> have you set DEBEMAIL to your ubuntu email address? 
<Adri2000> nope, I use my gmail address
<Adri2000> but you're right, there were two warnings
<Adri2000> it used to fail if the maintainer field was not set to an @ubuntu address, did that change recently? 
<geser> dpkg-source only aborts now when DEBEMAIL contains an ubuntu email address
<Adri2000> ah ok, then I need to be careful now
<geser>  * scripts/dpkg-source.pl: Only fail to build the source package if $DEBEMAIL contains 'ubuntu'.  If not, only print a warning. 
<geser> or simply set DEBEMAIL to your ubuntu email :)
<Adri2000> right
<Amaranth> so, hey, anyone know what the story is with gnome-compiz-manager? 
<Amaranth> lost in NEW for almost a month
<Amaranth> would have expected a rejection or acceptance by now :)
<geser> Amaranth: ask the archive admins
<Amaranth> ah, i see
<Amaranth> need people to review and upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4505
<Amaranth> one in NEW has license problems
* Amaranth begs
<Amaranth> :)
<jussi01> Hei all, Im testing the usplash package for ubuntustudio, and its giving me a dependency error - see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10360/ am I doing something wrong, or is something actually wrong? 
<pochu> jussi01: the build-dependens seems to be wrong... try to change usplash-dev with libusplash-dev
<jussi01> pochu, Im a little on the new side, whats the proceedure to do that? 
<geser> edit debian/control
<pochu> jussi01: are you building the package in a pbuilder, right? 
<pochu> jussi01: ^
<jussi01> pochu, yeah in pbuilder - Ill have a look at debian/control
<pochu> jussi01: search the line "Build-depends"
<jussi01> ok, thanks - just checking it now...
<jussi01> thanks pochu, geser that sorted the problem
<pochu> jussi01: which ubuntu version are u using? 
<jussi01> pochu, feisty
<pochu> jussi01: then you can tell that to the ubuntustudio packagers (or whoever have done that package)
<jussi01> pochu, yes I will do,
<jussi01> could someone email e a copy of their  .pbuilderrc and pbuilder/hook.d/D70results files?  I seem to have mine configurd wrong..
<jussi01> jussi01 at gmail.com
<bmm> Is it possible to place comments in the control file?  I have some package paragraphs in my control, which I want to temporarily disable because of licensing problems. 
<bmm> I wouls also be ok if it isn't a problem to have to many package paragraphs in your control file. 
<bmm> The policy doesn't state any syntax for comments in control files ( http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html ) as far as I can see.  Any other places it might be described? 
<bmm> I'll just move the paragraphs to another file and store them there then. 
<ogra> bmm, thats what the changelog is for ... just make a more detailed note in there 
<wolferine> <Seveas> i try to help you, you respond with personal atacks.  You get banned.  Simple <-- how did I personally attack you? 
<dholbach> wolferine: please... write a mail, but don't keep the conversation on multiple channels
<bmm> ogra: thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jussi01> hei all, I am having a little trouble with pbuilder.  pdebuild --use-pdebuild-internal works perfectly, but if I do pdebuild, I get errors - am I doing something wrong? 
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<trycyt> Can update-alternatives be used to manage symlinks in /usr/lib/cups/backend ? 
<imbrandon> cruft dholbach are you a moderator on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com ? 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you need something let through? 
<imbrandon> i sent a sru testing request to the list but from the wrong address, can you poke it through please ? 
<imbrandon> yea ajmitch 
* ajmitch tries to recall if he has the password
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> got it
<imbrandon> cool, thanks
<ajmitch> hm, dholbach must have let it through
<imbrandon> hum
<ajmitch> nothing in the admin queue anyway
<imbrandon> ahh got it
<imbrandon> it came though
<imbrandon> ( but my procmal marked it as bugmail , arg )
<dholbach> good night everybody - see you tomorrow
<imbrandon> gnight dholbach 
<dholbach> night imbrandon
<ajmitch> night dholbach 
<dholbach> night ajmitch
<pochu> night dholbach
<dholbach> night pochu
* ajmitch wonders why strigi magically got uploaded
<ajmitch> oh well, nothing we can do about it now
* bddebian dances around ajmitch
<ajmitch> stop that
<Ursinha> hahahahahahah
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs. 
<imbrandon> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-March/001428.html   <-- two testers that use apache2 please
<jussi01> hei motu's Ive just gotten an error when updating feisty - I will file a bug report, but just thoght to check here if some one has seen it, and if it is just only a setup prob on my machine.  the error is: E: cupsys: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
<geser> jussi01: see bug #92205
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92205 in cupsys "Error on cupsys update" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92205
<jussi01> geser, fixed?  I just did the update...
<Lamego> its probably not yet on your mirror
<geser> it may some time till it appears on all mirrors
<jussi01> ok, thanks
<imbrandon> _MMA_, do you rember carls last name ? 
<imbrandon> ( from system76.com )
<Smoke2k> could you help me imbrandon
<imbrandon> i can try, whats up? 
<Slant> Could a kind-hearted MOTU review LP #63096 for inclusion? 
<TheMuso> bug 63096
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63096 in slab "Package missing control-center executable" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63096
<jdong> that's slab
<jdong> main
<imbrandon> i'm core too so i can look, but give me just a few minutes, i need to make a call before the close of business today
<Smoke2k> thanks man
<Smoke2k> ok here is the deal
<TheMuso> jdong: You sure? 
<Smoke2k> i am trying to partition with ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-powerpc
<jdong> TheMuso: wait..... not totally.....
<jdong> TheMuso: ok, slap me :D
* jdong goes back to cowering in shame. 
<imbrandon> Smoke2k, ok ....
<Smoke2k> i got external 60 gig usb drive
<Smoke2k> it won't auto partition right for me
<Smoke2k> and when i try to set the 3 partitions it gives me trouble
<TheMuso> imbrandon: DO you have it covered? 
<Smoke2k> i know i need one ext primary
<Smoke2k> i need one for bootstrap 
<Smoke2k> and one for swap
<Slant> jdong: Slab isn't main.  It's universe. 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, no i ahvent looked yet
<jdong> Slant: yeah, sorry, just realized after saying it :)
<Smoke2k> but i must not be labeling these right with function or something on partitioning program
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Ok, I'll have a look. 
<Smoke2k> i don't know what the deal is 
<Smoke2k> it won't finish partition for install 
<Smoke2k> it says overlapping on auto set thing and won't do it right
<imbrandon> Smoke2k, this channel isnt really for support, BUT , label have nothing to do with end results, if you are un familiar with it, let it automaticly do it
<jdong> imbrandon: I think he's saying he's using auto, and gets an error about overlapping partitioning
<Smoke2k> yea i did it doesn't work
<imbrandon> right, and i'm by no means an partman expert, probably would be better of in #ubuntu
<Smoke2k> neither with guided partitioning either
<Smoke2k> will it auto install yaboot to it...i don't think so but it still doesn't work
<imbrandon> yes it will automaticly do your yaboot stuff
<Smoke2k> yea i know it installs yaboot to it but i am still having problems
<imbrandon> if you choose auto
<Smoke2k> i have got into every channel related to ubuntu that is chatting
<Smoke2k> so far no one can help
<Smoke2k> 'they actually said you could 
<TheMuso> Slant: Have you tested that this patch works? 
<Smoke2k> i really wish i could just call someone on phone and follow through with this partitiong 
<imbrandon> Smoke2k, yes but this isnt really a support channel, and without specifics i cant, even then i doubt __I__ can help as i'm not a partman expert
<Smoke2k> auto should do it ...it doesn't make sense it cann't auto partitiong
<Smoke2k> -g
<TheMuso> Slant: And made sure that the package builds ok? 
<Smoke2k> i have never had problem partitioning anything
<Slant> TheMuso: Yyup. 
<Smoke2k> ok
<Slant> TheMuso: I'm running it right now. 
<imbrandon> Smoke2k, try booting the cd from scriatch and choose auto BEFORE anything else, if that dosent work, choose the desktop cd not the alternate 
<TheMuso> Slant: Ok. 
<Slant> TheMuso: apt-get source gnome-main-menu && cd slab... && patch -p1 -i <whereever>/use_gnomecc.patch should have it all prepped and ready with changelog and everything. 
<TheMuso> Slant: Yeah I know.  Could you please do it again, this time changing the maintainer field as outlined at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField? 
<Slant> TheMuso: Ok. 
<TheMuso> Slant: Thanks. 
<Slant> TheMuso: That page implies there is a script to automate this, but I can't find it off the linked page. 
<Slant> TheMuso: Is doing it manually Good Enough? 
<TheMuso> Slant: Yes. 
* Slant nods. 
<Slant> TheMuso: Should I be appending the sane XSBC-Original to the Debian uploader field too? ( or stripping it, or leaving it?) 
<TheMuso> Uploaders doesn't matter I don't think. 
* Slant nods. 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, wanan test / poke https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/edgy/+source/mod-mono/+bug/92192 so i can get one of my "works for me"
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92192 in mod-mono "[SRU]  libapache2-mod-mono uninstallable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sure, once I've recovered from the shock of the usefulness of one particular new beta feature. 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
<imbrandon> i just signed up for beta lp today
<Fujitsu> What do you think of it? 
<imbrandon> matt revell just sent me an email asking that i not take screenshots etc, then i'll get added to the team
<imbrandon> so i'm 50% there
<Slant> TheMuso: New patch up at bug 63096. 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63096 in slab "Package missing control-center executable" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63096
<TheMuso> Slant: Thanks. 
<TheMuso> Guys, I am not up on .desktop files, but does an icon have to be referenced by absolute path as well as extension? 
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Carl J Richell  carl@system76.com
<Slant> TheMuso: "If the name is not an absolute path, the algorithm described in the Icon Theme Specification will be used to locate the icon." 
<imbrandon> _MMA_, rockin thanks, gonna call him now ;)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You're meant to give a name without a path or extension. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Just wasn't entirely sure. 
<TheMuso> Is there a document somewhere that outlines .desktop files? 
<Fujitsu> Somewhere on freedesktop.org
<Fujitsu> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<TheMuso> ok thanks. 
* TheMuso bookmarks
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It hasn't been accepted into edgy-proposed yet, so I can't properly test it. 
<imbrandon> hrm its been accepted, by Mithrandar , just not built
<imbrandon> ;(
<Lamego> TheMuso, the full path is not required if the icon is on one of the standard dirs
<TheMuso> Lamego: Thanks. 
<Lamego> like, the icon is expected to be on /usr/share/pixmaps
<TheMuso> Yeah I have read about that. 
<Fujitsu> And if the icon isn't in one of those directories, it's in the wrong place. 
<siretart> imbrandon: you pinged me yesterday? 
<imbrandon> siretart, umm yea one sec
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: are you a LP beta tester? 
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nah, I'm nobody :'-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: excellent :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: I need a favor
<bddebian> Uh oh
<jussi01> hehe
<LaserJock> bddebian:  can you try going to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug-advanced?field.tags=universe-request
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Have you seen the new beta feature? 
<Fujitsu> You can search for a bug contact's bug, finalyl
<Fujitsu> *finally
<Fujitsu> So we can get a proper list of science bugs. 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: saw something about that in the bug email
<LaserJock> oh, I didn't make the connection there, excellent news
<TheMuso> Slant: Just doing a test build of the package now. 
<bddebian> LaserJock: OK, I get a create a new bug window, now what? :) 
* jussi01 wonders if there is anything he can help anyone with... 
<LaserJock> bddebian: does i have anything in the tags field? 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Does for me. 
<LaserJock> for Beta it should
<LaserJock> I"m just not clear on what happens for non-Beta
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's not been deployed to production, AFAIK.  It might be on edge. 
<bddebian> LaserJock: Where is the tags feild? :) 
<Fujitsu> bddebian: I'll take that as a no, then :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I just wanted to see what'd do (OOPS or not)
<bddebian> Well they might be there, I'm old.   Maybe I'm blind?? :-) 
<siretart> Fujitsu: how? 
<Fujitsu> siretart: On the advanced bug search page, but only on beta. 
<Fujitsu> Or maybe edge too, I'm not sure. 
<Fujitsu> I take it that it's not on edge, as edge is down. 
<siretart> is it just me or is lp terribly slow ? 
<siretart> atm? 
<Fujitsu> I've always found it terribly slow. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: It seems ok in elinks. 
<TheMuso> Can be a little slow at times. 
<siretart> Fujitsu: oh,  nice.  that's really useful! 
<Fujitsu> Yay for 20-second page loads. 
<Fujitsu> siretart: Yup, it was added a few hours ago. 
* TheMuso shudders to think what it would be like on dial-up. 
<Fujitsu> I've been wanting such a feature for many months now. 
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Fujitsu> Hey sistpoty. 
<sistpoty> hi Fujitsu
<pochu> heya
<siretart> hey sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi siretart, how are you? 
<sistpoty> hi pochu
<siretart> sistpoty: fine, and you? 
<sistpoty> siretart: well, I'm really behind with my thesis, but apart from that I'm fine
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> siretart: btw.:  I'll probably stay at university... Volkmar kinda promised me that I could do a "Dissertation" at immd3 :)
<siretart> sistpoty: w000t! :) 
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty 
<sistpoty> now I only need to hand in my thesis in time (26.  april is deadline)
<siretart> sistpoty: but isn't immd3 to be merged with immd12? 
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hah
<sistpoty> siretart: none that I know of
<ajmitch> we should ban sistpoty from #u-motu for a few weeks :)
<sistpoty> siretart: actually immd3 will probably get a new prof... at least there are two candidates of what I've heard so far
<siretart> hey, you didn't ban me that time! 
<sistpoty> hehe ajmitch
<ajmitch> siretart: sorry :(
<siretart> sistpoty: maybe I'm confusing things
<siretart> ajmitch: ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: maybe you should better ban me from mailing lists :P
<Fujitsu> Get the CC to banish you from the community for a while. 
<sistpoty> hehe
<TheMuso> Slant: Uploaded, bug marked as fix committed.  Please set to fix released once it has successfully built.  You can go to http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/slab to to find out.  Thanks. 
<Slant> TheMuso: Thanks! 
<siretart> good night, folks! 
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<pochu> night! 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-15
<jussi01> hei all, are messages like this a problem when building a package under pbuilder?  dpkg-gencontrol: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)
<jussi01> or is that normal? 
<sistpoty> jussi01: these are pretty normal
<imbrandon> thats no big deal
<jussi01> ah, thanks
<pochu> does debian/changelog already close LP bugs? 
<pochu> or isn't it implemented yet? 
<ogra> i think the LP part is still missing
<pochu> ok, ty
<sistpoty> will we get karma if we close a bug via an upload? * g*
<ogra> sistpoty, lots of ... but karma is inflational anyway 
<ogra> :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> now even more trickier: will I get karma if I sponsor an upload which fixes a bug?  :P
<ogra> we should make sure to have karma bund to gpg keys then :)
<jdong> sistpoty: do sponsoring give karma? 
<jdong> sistpoty: I know I've gotten karma for packages other sponsored for me....
<jdong> but unsre if that's reciprocal
<sistpoty> jdong: no idea... I don't think so... but I also guess I don't get karma for doing uploads atm
<sistpoty> and we should really make sure that all these karma issues are drafted in the spec :)
<ogra> and even more important we should be able to redeem karma for beer :)
<sistpoty> haha
<jussi01> jdong, where does pbuilder usually put the debs it makes? 
<jdong> jussi01: /var/cache/pbuilder/results
<sistpoty> jussi01: /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<sistpoty> damn :P
<jussi01> hehe, thanks
<jdong> [:-1] 
<jdong> there fixed it. 
<ogra> bash: [:-1] : command not found
<ogra> nope ...
<ogra> you need to call /usr/bin/python before :P
<ogra> sistpoty, argh, thats evil ... flpsed is nearly an anagram of ltspfs ... very irritating ...
<ogra> err ltspfsd
<sistpoty> sorry ;)
<ogra> admit that was intentional ... to confuse me ...
<sistpoty> of course ;)
<ogra> :)
<pochu> does anybody know why I'm getting this error?  It has failed twice at the same point, but building with dpkg-buildpackage builds fine
<pochu> http://pastebin.com/899125
<pochu> It's wesnoth 1.2.2 :)
<pochu> don't know why it fails in pbuilder but not with dpkg-buildpackage... maybe a build-depends missing? 
<TheMuso> pochu: Is your system and pbuilder chroot up to date? 
<pochu> TheMuso: right, one hour ago
<pochu> with the main archive
<TheMuso> ok
<pochu> I'll update again, to ensure :)
<TheMuso> Do you have pbuilder set up so that if a build fails, you are automatically left with a prompt inside the chroot? 
<TheMuso> TO do further exmination? 
<pochu> TheMuso: no, I haven't
<pochu> TheMuso: should I have it? 
<TheMuso> That might be worth doing. 
<TheMuso> Especially for what I am about to suggest. 
<pochu> TheMuso: what should I do, edit the .pbuilderrc? 
<TheMuso> No, it can be done with pbuilder hooks. 
<geser> It's interesting that ld did report why it failed. 
<TheMuso> What you want to do, is make sure the directory /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks exists. 
<TheMuso> Then cp /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks
<pochu> it doesn't exist, do I create it? 
<TheMuso> And finally make sure HOOKDIR in /etc/pbuilderrc points to /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks
<TheMuso> What doesn't exist? 
<pochu>  /usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks
<TheMuso> yeah create it
<pochu> TheMuso: done :)
<TheMuso> Ok, how many ELF binaries/libraries does the package produce when built? 
<pochu> let me look
<pochu> 11 +1 I have added (meta package)
<pochu> total: 12 :)
<TheMuso> I don't mean actual packages. 
<TheMuso> I actually mean either shared libraries, or binaries that go in usr/bin etc. 
<pochu> elf? 
<TheMuso> Its the binary format used for Linux. 
<pochu> ah, didn't know :)
<TheMuso> stands for executable and linkable format
<pochu> TheMuso: how can I check that?  I'm not sure about it :(
<TheMuso> Build the package with dpkg-buildpackage, then go into the staging area for your package, if there is one, ie debian/tmp.  Then look in usr/bin and usr/lib if it exists. 
<TheMuso> if the package doesn't use a temporary staging area for files, then you will have to go through each package's staging directory individually. 
<pochu> it does
<TheMuso> Right. 
<pochu> there is neither usr/bin/ nor usr/lib in debian/tmp/
<TheMuso> What is in there? 
<pochu> there is a usr/share and a usr/games
<TheMuso> sorry, in usr/games
<TheMuso> forgot that it was a game. 
<pochu> and even var/games
<pochu> TheMuso: np :)
<pochu> 4 executables
<pochu> wesnoth, wesnothd, wesnoth_editor (executalbes)
<TheMuso> Ok, attempt to build the package in pbuilder again, and wait till you get given a prompt inside the chroot
<pochu> and a perl script (wmlxgettext)
<pochu> TheMuso: ok
<pochu> building :)
<LaserJock> oh darn
<LaserJock> sistpoty: you around? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yep
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course he's around, it's not 4am yet
<sistpoty> :P
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, it was sort of a false alarm
<LaserJock> siretart was the one I was after
<ajmitch> hehe ok :)
<ajmitch> easy to confuse them ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ok... he went to bed some time ago
<LaserJock> I was just going to say, with respect to the MOTU wiki
<LaserJock> that I started implementing Jono's style to MOTU quite some time ago
<LaserJock> but I wasn't able to get very far
<LaserJock> I created a MOTU header
<LaserJock> and worked a bit on MOTU/
* sistpoty just works on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Newsletter
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
<LaserJock> sistpoty: yes, I saw that.  that's what reminded me
<TheMuso> pochu: How goes the build? 
* ajmitch is just working on various little things, nothing on the wiki
<pochu> TheMuso: building :)
<TheMuso> pochu: Ok. 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm on fire today
<LaserJock> called a couple companies and ordered some parts, went to a meeting, proctored and exam, another meeting, fixing Edubuntu docs, ...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: scary
<pochu> TheMuso: failed, I have a prompt :)
<TheMuso> Ok.  from another terminal, copy those binaries from the debian/tmp/usr/games dir from the successful build into the chroot/ The chroot is in /var/cache/pbuilder/buildd/* or something like that. 
<LaserJock> ajmitch & sistpoty: what do you think of the sandbox MOTU page ^^ ? 
<TheMuso> The dir is named with a number, likely the pid of the pbuilder process. 
<pochu> ok, going to do
<LaserJock> I could probably move most of the MOTU/ content there and replace MOTU? 
<LaserJock> s|?|/|
<TheMuso> sorry, /var/cache/pbuilder/pbuildd
* TheMuso sighs. 
<pochu> TheMuso: there is nothing in /var/cache/pbuilder/pbuildd, no directories
<sistpoty> LaserJock: looks quite good
<TheMuso> I wish there was a way to force an ISP's transparent proxy to flush its cache. 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: the "current working mode" is great! 
<TheMuso> pochu: When the build failed, did it say that it was cleaning up?\
<TheMuso> and is the prompt you have a root prompt? 
<pochu> TheMuso: no, and yes
<TheMuso> hmmm. 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, I imagined that as sort of "Where are we in the release and what are we focused on" thing
<pochu> TheMuso: though I'm trying to copy them from another terminal (user one)
<TheMuso> Right. 
<TheMuso> Try and find the source package in /var/cache/pbuilder or any of its subdirs. 
<TheMuso> so something like find /var/cache/pbuilder -name wesnoth_* or something like that. 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe the teams should be moved to a subpage, and instead something like "motu is organized by a number of teams, who care for specific aspects of universe..." be inserted in the front page? 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: that page is based on a fairly old (2006) version of MOTU/ maybe I should update it and polish it and email -motu? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that would be great! 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, I was thinking of a table or something easy to see all the team
<pochu> TheMuso: ok, doing
<LaserJock> sistpoty: but I don't think wiki works very well for that, at least I don't know how to do it in a good way
<sistpoty> hm...
<pochu> TheMuso: emilio@kiko:/var/cache/pbuilder/build$ ls
<pochu> 15477  5744
<pochu> TheMuso: though both directories contain "/"
<pochu> TheMuso: bin, usr, var, home...
<TheMuso> which one has the package source in it out of those two? 
<TheMuso> Its in the /tmp/build dir I think. 
<pochu> emilio@kiko:/var/cache/pbuilder/build/15477/tmp/buildd$ ls
<pochu> wesnoth-1.2.2  wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.dsc  wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<pochu> :)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe it might make sense to invite ppl.  to contribute on the front page, hinting to correct any wiki-errors they may find... however that might also just be one of may ideas which won't work after all ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: well, let me sort of clean it up and update it then I'll open it up for people to thrash around
<sistpoty> LaserJock: cool!  rock! 
<pochu> TheMuso: do I paste them inside its directory? 
<TheMuso> pochu: Anywhere inside that chroot is fine. 
<pochu> ok
<sistpoty> LaserJock: btw.:  the top-table with links is very nice :)
<pochu> TheMuso: done :)
<sistpoty> (as is the contents thingy... I'm still baffled how you do it)
<pochu> hey bddebian
<TheMuso> pochu: Now what you want to do, is use the ldd command to determine whether any of those binaries can be used with the libraries in the chroot.  So something like ldd wesnoth will give you output similar to this.  
<TheMuso> pochu: http://www.pastebin.ca/395422
<TheMuso> pochu: Obviously it will be different, but you get the idea. 
<pochu> TheMuso: right :)
<pochu> TheMuso: trying
<TheMuso> Check all binaries, and check that all libraries a binary needs are present
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<TheMuso> Heya bddebian. 
<bddebian> Hi TheMuso
<pochu> TheMuso: seems this is missing:
<pochu> linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xffffe000)
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<TheMuso> pochu: No thats fine. 
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<pochu> ah, ok
<pochu> TheMuso: seems ok to me, do I pastebin it for you? 
<pochu> TheMuso: give me a moment
<TheMuso> pochu: If you want to, but unless you can see any not found messages, than that rules out a missing library at least. 
<pochu> TheMuso: http://www.pastebin.ca/395430
<pochu> TheMuso: do you mean the build-depends? 
<TheMuso> pochu: You could check all the libraries that are linked for the binaries have their dev files present. 
<TheMuso> otherwise I'm out of ideas. 
<TheMuso> Anybody around who is a moderator for the universe sponsors ml? 
<ajmitch> sistpoty: not mentioning the build farm stuff yet? :) 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: consider contributing ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch can't write :)
<sistpoty> :P
<imbrandon> ? 
<sistpoty> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Newsletter
<imbrandon> ahh
<sistpoty> now it only needs some text (as do most other points)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you could probably write something in there about ubuntuwire.com
<imbrandon> yup yup, i probably will tonight when i'm at work
<sistpoty> cool, thx! 
<imbrandon> too tired to atm heh
* sistpoty is beyond the state of tiredness right now
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what about blogs for ubuntu people? :) 
<imbrandon> that might be cool, a multi site wp install wouldent be hard 
<imbrandon> and the webserver is already seperate
<ajmitch> apart from the fact that it's wp
<imbrandon> and i alraedy give jabber/email away
<imbrandon> infact i could probably use the jabber/email id for the blogs
<sistpoty> security *cough*, *cough*... wp had some bugs assigned to motu-swat which weren't fixed for some time (and maybe still aren't?) * g*
<sistpoty> imbrandon: consider using debian packages :P
<imbrandon> sistpoty, i install right from wp.com
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> sistpoty: wp & security don't go together :)
<imbrandon> if i do blogs ajmitch you have to agree to signup for one, since it was your idea ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: how's the teams in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU ? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: nice
<LaserJock> sistpoty: do you think that'd be suitable for getting all the teams on the front page? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> that's silly Uncommon Programming Languages team makes everything hard :-)
<sistpoty> sorry
<ajmitch> imbrandon: oh I can sign up 
<ajmitch> doesn't mean I'll blog :)
<imbrandon> lol
<sistpoty> oh, so we already have a security team for universe... seems like motu-swat is redundant then? 
* ajmitch has no hackergotchu, so can't go on planet
<ajmitch> sistpoty: hah
<ajmitch> the "security team" is rather defunct
<sistpoty> hehe
* LaserJock goes to register immitchy.wordpress.com :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ? 
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that way I get to blog and you get the flames :-)
<LaserJock> oh darn, I was thinking MOTU Swat == MOTU QA
<imbrandon> bbiab food time
<sistpoty> LaserJock: no, motu-swat is the new motu-security.  and we sometimes even get things done... sometimes... rarely... and only because keescook is doing most of the work ;)
<LaserJock> mhm
<sistpoty> or geser
<sistpoty> or anyone else, not me :P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: lucky me
<LaserJock> of course
<sistpoty> hm... many team pages look kinda outdated... maybe we should do some cleanup there as well? 
<ajmitch> yes
<sistpoty> (including upl, which wasn't very active lately)
<ajmitch> upl? 
<bddebian> What is upl? 
<sistpoty> uncommon programming languages, since LaserJock complaind :P
<sistpoty> +e
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> what I'm doing right now
<bddebian> You're writing Lisp now? :-) 
<LaserJock> is listing the ones from MOTU/Teams
<ajmitch> fortran :)
<LaserJock> that have LP teams
<LaserJock> heh
* LaserJock forms MOTU Fortran
<bddebian> w00t
<LaserJock> since it obviously doesn't belong to UCL
<LaserJock> or UPL
<bddebian> So if I want a char* to point to another pointer is it just foo = bar; or foo = &bar? 
<sistpoty> bddebian: foo = bar;
<bddebian> Hmm, that's what I thought
<bddebian> #$%#! $
<sistpoty> &bar would give you the pointer to bar... so if bar is a pointer you end up with a pointer to a pointer
<bddebian> Well bar is actually a 2 dimensional array at this point :-)
<Lathiat> which can sometimes be usefull
<sistpoty> bddebian: then bar is a pointer to a pointer already... 
<bddebian> Right
<Lathiat> heh, true
<sistpoty> bddebian: so I guess you'll want s.th.  like foo = bar[42] ... unless foo is an array itself
<sistpoty> (to pointers)
<bddebian> Actually what I really want is a char* struct element to = a const char[5] [3]  but no matter what I do I can't get it to work :_(
<joejaxx> anyone here use svn?  :P
<sistpoty> bddebian: got some code to look at? 
<bddebian> sistpoty: No cause you'll laugh at it ;-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: I promise not to :P
<sistpoty> however first I'll go for a cigarette ;)
<pochu> TheMuso: I think I found the missed dependency: libsdl1.2-dev :)
<pochu> but I'll do it tomorrow
<pochu> TheMuso: thanks for your help! 
<bddebian> sistpoty: http://pastebin.us/17332
<TheMuso> pochu: great. 
<pochu> good night everyone! 
<bddebian> Gnight pochu
<bddebian> sistpoty: Oh, and here's the header file:  http://pastebin.us/17333
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, is surely not as bad looking as the sed rpn calculator I saw the other day
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: well said, +1
* ajmitch wonders what LaserJock refers to
<ajmitch> ah, the list
<LaserJock> is MOTU/SRU the current SRU policy?  I've lost track
<ajmitch> probably not
<LaserJock> bah
<ajmitch> funny, the suggestion of leaving it to the motu-uvf team
<ajmitch> since crimsun is a member of that team as well
<LaserJock> well yeah
<LaserJock> pretty much any team would still make it up to him ;-)
<ajmitch> & there is some slight overlap between -uvf & the mc
* ajmitch wonders if pitti could blacklist beryl from apport
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> do you know if apport has blacklisting at all? 
<ajmitch> or if most people are running edgy & so it can't be changed
<ajmitch> there's some
<ajmitch>     # ignore blacklisted binaries
<ajmitch>     if info.check_ignored():
<ajmitch>         error_log('executable version is blacklisted, ignoring')
<bddebian> Damn, did sistpoty die laughing at my hideous code? 
<sistpoty> bddebian: no, was just out for a smoke (and had some chat with my gf)
<bddebian> :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: just fiddling with your code
<bddebian> It's very messy since I have tried so many iterations of stuff :-(
<sistpoty> imo it's not that messy
<LaserJock> ok guys, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
<LaserJock> I think it's got about everything I was thinking of
<ajmitch> sistpoty: your gf is still awake as well? 
<sistpoty> yep
<ajmitch> sad
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's my problem.  my wife doesn't like it when I stay up til 2am when see wants to go to bed at 10:00pm
* ajmitch has no such problems
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh, my wife has been asleep since before 10 ;-P
<bddebian> Hell and even LOST is on
* ajmitch is just the stereotypical geek ;)
<bddebian> But we love you anyway :-)
<ajmitch> no you don't
<bddebian> Sure we do :-)
<LaserJock> ok, so the MOTU Meeting is scheduled the same time as the next TB meeting
<LaserJock> and on the MOTU/Meeting page it says Tuesday the 23rd but Tuesday is the 27th
<crimsun> it's the 27th; it's correct on the fridge
<crimsun> or at least I recall robtaille asking about it
<sistpoty> LaserJock: probably my fault... sorry
<LaserJock> ohh
<LaserJock> the meeting time has changed, I think
<LaserJock> or maybe not
<LaserJock> for some reason my google calendar says they are at the same time
<sistpoty> at least I was consistent with my type... now that I know that I can't read the calendar :)
* bddebian blames it on the new timezone change
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<LaserJock> I have a laptop that keeps switching times
<LaserJock> I gotta figure out if it's still doing it
<ogra> LaserJock, feels like permanent travelling, doesnt it :)
<LaserJock> heh, you would surely know
<LaserJock> ogra: has most of your travel been in Europe? 
<ajmitch> ogra: it's worrying that you're still awake :)
<ogra> LaserJock, the recent ones, yes
<ogra> and the next ones as well ...
* ajmitch hasn't often seen you around -motu lately
<ogra> ajmitch, yeah, thanks to cbx33 ... who changed half the world in TCM but forgot to bzr add the new glade file for it
<lifeless> rotfl
<ogra> ajmitch, i'm always around in -motu :)
<ogra> lifeless, not funny ... its an essential program for edubuntu and now its unlikely to make the freeze tomorrow
<lifeless> ogra: eep
<ogra> but i cant do much anymore now ... i fixed all the code i could fix witout having a gui ... so i think its bedtime now ...
<Amaranth> oh dear
<ogra> well, its a typical user error with bzr ... 
<Amaranth> git is somewhat better there but in an annoying way
<ogra> i miss a bzr add myself very often as well ...
<Amaranth> that's a typical user error with just about every VCS
<ogra> i guess you cant solve it properly in an automatic way 
<Amaranth> not without dumping crap into the repo
<ogra> so its a matter of habit 
<Amaranth> in git it won't commit anything until you git-update-index it, i've found myself realizing i added a file and forgot about it when i check git-status to see what i need to feed to git-update-index
<Amaranth> so it's more annoying 99% of the time but saved your ass in that 1%
<Amaranth> saves*
<ajmitch> ogra: ah, that's unfortunate
<LaserJock> wow, Mail.app just signed my email for me
<Amaranth> neat
<lifeless> ogra: add a bzr alias for 'commit=commit --strict'
<lifeless> that gives you the same behaviour
<ogra> cool, thanks 1
<ogra> ! 
<ajmitch> now you just need to get everyone using that alias :)
<lifeless> I think you can put it in branch.conf for the branches you care about
<sistpoty> bddebian: sorry, was distracted again.  and I guess I'm too tired to fix it right now, but I'll take a look at it tomorrow
<bddebian> sistpoty: No worries, thanks man
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<jimpop> wrt archive.ubuntu.com, I'm getting an error from "apt-get update"...
<jimpop> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
<Amaranth> jimpop: Try again in 15 minutes
<jimpop> gotcha.  thx
<tonyyarusso> sandwich time
<jimpop> Amaranth: not rushing you, just fyi that the problem still remains. 
<Amaranth> jimpop: I have no control over it, was just a random suggestion
<Amaranth> usually helps
<jimpop> Amaranth: ahh, ok.  thx anyways
<imbrandon> re
<LaserJock> ok, so upgrading NetworkManager over ssh isn't the best idea apparently
<imbrandon> hahaha
<tonyyarusso> lol
<LaserJock> well, it's not all *that* funny
<LaserJock> it's my server computer
<LaserJock> thankfully it's just in another room
<imbrandon> well we've all been there so yea, but your server uses nm? 
<LaserJock> that's Feisty's default so yeah
<LaserJock> I couldn't figure out how to do it non-NM very well
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well i have no gui on the servers so kinda hard to use nm
<imbrandon> plus its just easier to have milti interfaces etc the old way
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> multi*
<LaserJock> well, my "server" is just my desktop machine that I leave on all night and has a LAMP setup
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> hey its a start hehe
<LaserJock> probably as close as I'll ever get
<imbrandon> ya never know, 2 or 3 years you might be in a new house and have a ubuntu box headless tucked away in the basement serving files ;)
<LaserJock> I think I'm more likely to get a professorship and have money for a small cluster
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if i could get a ubuntu install in under 1GB
<LaserJock> full Ubuntu? 
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> just server install
<imbrandon> never checked on the size
<LaserJock> I would think you could
<LaserJock> full Ubuntu's supposed to take 2GB
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You could easily. 
<lifeless> huh
<lifeless> clearly its 720MB :)
<imbrandon> yea i would think i could, just never checked the size on a clean install
<lifeless> run off of the squashfs:)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i have a 1GB CF card, i would liek to run it as my router, but not run a router centric linux, i want full ubuntu server
<imbrandon> i think it will be doable
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Having a CPU, RAM and a network interface or two may make a more functional router ;)
<imbrandon> hahaha yea
<imbrandon> i have all that , totaly fanless, small, hpc 
<Fujitsu> Nice. 
<imbrandon> just picked up the cfcard yesterday
<imbrandon> the "final piece"
* LaserJock got his on Ebay :/
<imbrandon> your router? 
<imbrandon> my current router i got on ebay
<imbrandon> it runs openwrt too ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, my wireless DSL router
<LaserJock> some Netgear that was $25 I think
<imbrandon> yea ebay isnt bad for computer equip as long as you know what your getting
<Fujitsu> Hm, can we ban unofficial repos from being listed on Planet, please? 
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> holy mother of god
<imbrandon> there are STILL ad's on the ubuntuforums.org ( if your not logged in )
* imbrandon grumbles
<humanof> Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu or at [MAILTO]  keyring@tiber.tauware.de to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU
<imbrandon> humanof, give me one moment
* humanof is in no hurry
<imbrandon> humanof, ok sync complete
<humanof> sorry if I am a retard or something, but for the Login and Pass of REVU, that is the same as the launchpad login and pass or not...
<RAOF> humanof: No, it isn't. 
<humanof> oh wait nevermind, just read down a bit
<humanof> says after first package
<RAOF> :)
<man-di> Can someone tell what the prerequisites for uploading to *-backports is? 
<Fujitsu> man-di: It must build, install and run on the target distribution, with no changes. 
<man-di> my backports depend on othere backports or only on target distro packges? 
<imbrandon> backports can target other backports BUT you dont upload to -backports, backports only come from +1
<imbrandon> e.g. edgy-backports will only be imported from feisty ( after testing and verification )
<imbrandon> man-di, ^^
<imbrandon> ( see the bottom of this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports )
<man-di> thats the page I googled for and dont found it, thx imbrandon 
<ajmitch> hi
<imbrandon> hi too
<dholbach> good morning
<Lutin> 'morning dholbach 
<Q-FUNK> 'mourning
<dholbach> hi Lutin
<dholbach> hi Q-FUNK
<Q-FUNK> heh.   pretty interesting reading on the planets today:  it seems that we are heading for a simultaneous release of Etch and Feisty. 
<Q-FUNK> The Cabale Strikes Back  - Episode IV:  Darth Ganneff returns.   ;)
<lucas> well feisty is supposed to release on april 19th
<lucas> etch on april 2nd
<man-di> lucas: adding some more days before the release of etch cant hurt :-)
<Lutin> heya freeflying_ 
<freeflying_> Lutin: hi
<lucas> actually, I was surprised by the status update
<lucas> I thought that it would release sooner
<Lutin> freeflying_: how're doing ? 
<freeflying_> Lutin: busy on my work  :)
<Lutin> heh :)
<man-di> lucas: I was surprized that the blockers are no blockers anymore
<Lutin> freeflying_: can you remember the fonts you're usin in E that replace the vera fonts ? 
<freeflying_> Lutin: sorry, I forget that  :)
<man-di> lucas: thanks for the Java comparison cronjob, that will help a lot
<Lutin> freeflying_: ok.  if you have some time, would you have a look ? 
<Lutin> as I'm rewriting my build system, I'll take a look in the process :)
<freeflying_> Lutin: ok  :)
<Lutin> freeflying_: ok, cool.  thanks :)
<Lutin> freeflying_: if you have other comments/suggests, they're welcome ;)
<freeflying_> Lutin: if i have time, i will
<Lutin> thanks :)
<uatschitchun> Goor morning
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: Ok.  You might find this guide useful.  http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<TheMuso> That talks all about .desktop files. 
<uatschitchun> The dektop-file is correct ... checked with dektop-file-vaildate ...
<uatschitchun> That's not the problem
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> I'm looking to remaster the ubuntu live cd to brand it for the school
<cbx33> http://wiki.oss-watch.ac.uk/UbuntuEdgy/Remaster
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: Ok whats the problem? 
<cbx33> seems like a good set of instructions however on extracting the squashfs filesystem without root privilages....I get an error
<cbx33> about ssl and permission denied
<cbx33> should I use root
<TheMuso> cbx33: How are you extracting the filesystem? 
<cbx33> mount $CD/casper/filesystem.squashfs /mnt -t squashfs -o loop
<cbx33> rsync -av /mnt/. $Source/.
<uatschitchun> Problem is: after the installation the menu item does not appear .. only after relogin or an update of the .desktop file itself (rewrite it - some kind of touch, but touch does not do the job)
<verwilst> hi! 
<verwilst> it seems like postfix-policyd has some bugs :)
<verwilst> somebody wants to work with me to solve em? : $
<uatschitchun> it works fine with the feisty packages in xubuntu
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: Are you calling dh_desktop in your rules file? 
<TheMuso> cbx33: Hmmm.  Thats how I would do it. 
<TheMuso> cbx33: Are you using it with sudo? 
<verwilst> uatschitchun: it's the installation
<jussi01> morning motu's
<verwilst> uatschitchun: when you want to do it unattended
<verwilst> but don't have a database
<uatschitchun> No, I'm not, but I looked into several packages where the menu-item appears and none of them calls dh_desktop !? 
<verwilst> it complains that it can't connect, and errors out
<verwilst> even when you preseed it to ignore that warning
<Q-FUNK> lucas: I bet that will not make it on time for Apr.2
<verwilst> also, when a file has changed, it asks whether to overwrite it or keep the current version
<verwilst> even when you have DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: hmm.  I am not really up on menu items and whether they usually show up immediately or not. 
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: afaik dh_desktop adds postinst rules for update-desktop-databse for assigning mime-types, correct?  But my app does not assign mime-types, so I won't have to call dh_desktop ;)
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: Right. 
<TheMuso> Well how do other packages do it? 
<uatschitchun> Same as me ..
<TheMuso> So are items supposed to show up immediately?  If they are, I don't know how thats done. 
<uatschitchun> Is it important that a .desktop file is shipped in the same package as the binary? 
<uatschitchun> for know I have it in binary-indep package coming along
<TheMuso> I would think so.  Many packages I have worked on have done so. 
<cbx33> TheMuso: I am using it with sudo now
<uatschitchun> On a fresh Edgy if you install xmms, it places it's meu-item directly after the install in 'Multimedia'
<cbx33> but wondering if permissions will be screwed up on recompression
<TheMuso> cbx33: If using sudo to recompress, and with appropriate permissions flags set if any, I wouldn't see why not. 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> but does that rsync keep permissions? 
<TheMuso> cbx33: Yes.  I have rsynced things like that, particularly off CDs, and all files have kept permissions. 
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33>  ok
<StevenK> cbx33: If -p is in the options
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: could it be that binary-indep packages are treated different and only binary-arch packages have an influence on menu-items? 
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: I don't know I am affraid. 
<cbx33> anyone know about isollinux here? 
<cbx33> Edit $CD/isolinux/isolinux.cfg to addpreseed/locale=en_GB kbd-chooser/method=gb DEBCONF_PRIORITY=critical
<cbx33> is that added to the kernel line? 
<TheMuso> cbx33: I'd say so, yes. 
<cbx33> ok
<TheMuso> pochu: Hey there. 
<pochu> hey TheMuso! 
<pochu> it has worked :)
<TheMuso> pochu: WHat was missing? 
<uatschitchu1> Sorry, seems I was lost ;)
<pochu> TheMuso: build-dep on libsdl1.2-dev
<TheMuso> You would think the configure script would pick up on that. 
<pochu> TheMuso: I saw I had that package installed, but it wasn't specified on the build-deps, so I tried it :)
* TheMuso is very surprised. 
* uatschitchun is back with another client ;)
<pochu> TheMuso: Bug #90407 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
<TheMuso> pochu: Has the UVF been approved? 
<pochu> TheMuso: I'm asking daniel to review it :)
<TheMuso> pochu: Ok but it has to be acked by two people on the UVF team afaik. 
<pochu> TheMuso: by 2? 
<pochu> TheMuso: I've read in the policy that one is enough
<pochu> maybe the wiki isn't updated...
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: Did you get my last questions? 
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: I don't think so. 
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: Sorry for that ... my client logged me off two times ;(
<pochu> TheMuso: Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading. 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ping
<pochu> TheMuso: that's in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<pochu> if it's not the current policy, we should probably update it :)
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: Ok, I've had another look ... I examined 'sdljump'.  This package ships the 'sdljump.desktop' with the sdljump-data package (same as I do) and the menu item is there just right after installing sdljump ... Why not with my package? 
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: Where could I get an answer?  What do you think? 
<StevenK> uatschitchun: Does your debian/rules file run dh_desktop in the binary-indep target? 
<uatschitchun> No, it need not cause I'm not registering mime-types! 
<uatschitchun> StevenK: And if I run update-desktop-database by hand, the menu-item doesn't still appear!? 
<StevenK> dh_desktop doesn't touch mime-types
<StevenK> Are you certain the .desktop is getting installed to the correct directory? 
<uatschitchun> StevenK: But it prepares postinst rules to run update-desktop-database, which does ...
<uatschitchun> StevenK: Yes, I am
<StevenK> Then I have no idea. 
<uatschitchun> StevenK: The desktop-file is installed into /usr/share/applications/. If I do change the file, without changing it (add a new line and remove it, then save - some kind of touch, but touch doesn't do) the menu-item appears
<uatschitchun> StevenK: It also appears after relogin
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: You have peaked my curiocity about this.  I have merged a package in the past for Ubuntu that has a desktop file, yet doesn't call dh_desktop.  I also happen to use that package. 
* TheMuso goes to remove and re-install to see what happens. 
<imbrandon> crimsun, looks like you'll have to upgrade your breezy boxen soon ;) ( siretart you too e.g. tiber )
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: Have a look into 'sdljump' sources ... it just copies the sdljump.desktop within rules and installs with sdljump-data.install ...
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: I will in a minute. 
<uatschitchun> TheMuso: jojo .. take your time
<TheMuso> uatschitchun: I think you need to create a debian/menu, or debian/package.menu file, and use dh_installmenu to put it into place. 
<verwilst> i preseed this to postfix-policyd: postfix-policyd postfix-policyd/mysql/method    select   tcp/ip
<verwilst> and still it nags: ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
<verwilst> it seems like postfix-policyd pays no attention to the preseed values...
<dholbach> ajmitch, siretart, slomo_, crimsun: can two of you take a look at 92476? 
<verwilst> is there a way to disable dbconfig-common? 
<verwilst> so i can pinpoint wether that piece of euh.. software is the culprit :)
<geser> verwilst: have you checked the real config for postfix-policyd? 
<imbrandon> ohhh i want one .... http://digitimes.com/Backgrounders/ArtReview.asp?datePublish=2007/03/14&pages=PR&seq=207
<verwilst> geser: the real config? 
<geser> postfix-policd won't read the debconf values but the real config which should be filled with the debconf values
<pochu> dholbach: does UVF require 2 ack?  If so, do I change the wiki?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<pochu> Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading. 
<Fujitsu> pochu: The final one will mark it as confirmed. 
<verwilst> geser: euh
<pochu> Fujitsu: so the wiki is out-of-date? 
<verwilst> geser: it's during configure of the package eh
<verwilst> it's not installed yet
<Fujitsu> pochu: No, the wiki is correct. 
<pochu> Fujitsu: oh, I see! 
<pochu> hehe
<Fujitsu> A little ambiguous, perhaps. 
<pochu> :)
<verwilst> doing "postfix-policyd postfix-policyd/install-error   select  ignore" should make the package go further when an error occurs
<verwilst> but it fails anyways
<pochu> dholbach: nevermind :)
<verwilst> when i do it interactive and select ignore, it installs fine
<verwilst> ( ignoring the error 
<verwilst> )
<verwilst> it's driving me crazy
<verwilst> and i have no idea where to look in the deb source for a fix
<verwilst> grm
<verwilst> i almost broke my keyboard while hitting on it :p
<geser> if it happens during configure check the postfix-policd.config and postfix-policd.postinst in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<bmm> Which distribution should I be running to create packages and upload them to REVU?  Feisty or Edgy? 
<imbrandon> bmm, any one, as long as your build env ( e.g. pbuilder is feisty )
<verwilst> geser: it seems to ignore every preseed value you throw at it
<ajmitch> dholbach: give a bit more info on what netbeans is :)
<ajmitch> I know it's java & all...
<geser> isn't it a java ide? 
<ajmitch> no idea
<dholbach> it's a java IDE
<verwilst> yes! 
<dholbach> let me link to netbeans.org
<verwilst> removing /usr/share/dbconfig-common/dpkg/config.mysql fixes it! 
<imbrandon> i thought it was like cpan modules or pear db stuff
<geser> http://www.netbeans.org/
<StevenK> NetBeans refers to both a platform for the development of Java desktop applications, and an integrated development environment (IDE) developed using the NetBeans Platform. 
<verwilst> so it's a dbconfig-common error
<bmm> imbrando: thanks! 
<imbrandon> yw
<pochu> ajmitch: if you have a moment, can you review bug 90407 please? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
* ajmitch is about an hour past bedtime
<LaserJock> dholbach: you got a sec to take a peek at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU ? 
<dholbach> LaserJock: can you drop me a mail about that? 
<dholbach> i'm just getting pinged by 10 people at once
<LaserJock> dholbach: well, I mentioned it in ubuntu-motu
<dholbach> on the mailing list? 
<LaserJock> dholbach: so if you get around to reading email
<LaserJock> yeah
<dholbach> cool - that's perfect
<dholbach> thanks
* dholbach hugs LaserJock
<LaserJock> heh, np
* LaserJock hugs dholbach back
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It looks substantially better than the current one. 
<LaserJock> ok, well that's a good start
<imbrandon> FUCK ! 
<StevenK> imbrandon: You aren't my type. 
<StevenK> imbrandon: Try Fujitsu. 
* StevenK runs
<imbrandon> mysql just decided to drop all my tables, including my blog
<imbrandon> jesus omfg
<StevenK> imbrandon: Would now be a good time to mention PostgreSQL?  :-P
<imbrandon> fuck man, my backup is like 6 or 7 months old
<imbrandon> jesus
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Now how did that happen? 
<imbrandon> no idea
<Fujitsu> imbrandon.... ouch? 
<imbrandon> hum the DB are still on disk
<imbrandon> whew
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I'd make a copy immediately if I were you. 
<imbrandon> ok now to figure out how to restore them
<imbrandon> i just did
<Hobbsee> i swear, every time i read another message of that kde4 thread, i just want to leave ubuntu...
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, +1
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: But you'
<imbrandon> craptastic , bbiab 
<Fujitsu> *you're a Kubuntu-person. 
<Hobbsee> and get out of any leadership role possible in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think that's why it makes it so bad
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's what I meant. 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: hmm, I think that about every day
<Fujitsu> 'tis a nice Council v. Council battle. 
<imbrandon> i just stoped reading it after crimsun's last email, it made the most sense of them all
<LaserJock> somehow I keep getting up every morning and start plugging away
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, it was much better than mine :/
<Hobbsee> it's still really weird to hear all of them bitch to high heaven about support for them, when i've never seen most of them triage a KDE bug in their lives...
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That was the last email there was in that thread :P
<StevenK> The mail exchange on -motu is very tame. 
<StevenK> Says the Debian developer ...
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> StevenK, ;)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Look at Beryl.  It's not even in Ubuntu. 
<Fujitsu> KDE is relatively stable, and is in main now. 
* Fujitsu stops. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh. 
* Hobbsee stomps on Fujitsu 
* Fujitsu is stomped on. 
* TheMuso has stayed out of the debate, as he doesn't have an opinion, and wouldn't touch KDE stuff unless explicitly requested to look at something. 
<StevenK> TheMuso: Look at kdebase
<TheMuso> The reasons for which should be self explanetory. 
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thats main
<imbrandon> basicly it boils down to 3 things imho, not to start a fight but crimsun put it best, 1) it was in edgy the same way, to remove it now would be a regression 2) this isnt the first expirmental packages in universe 3) its not the damn MC charter to decide whats in universe about ANY package , KDE or not
<Hobbsee> StevenK: look at synaptic, that's similarly bad, iirc. 
* Hobbsee now doesnt really care what happens
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's also not the KC charter to decide a UVFe for Universe packages
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I think it is somewhat the MC's role to decide on something big like this. 
<Fujitsu> What LaserJock said. 
<TheMuso> Anyways, got an audio meeting in 7 hours, better get some sleep. 
<StevenK> Can we not move the argument to IRC, please? 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, right, thats why it was a request
<Hobbsee> whatever the MOTU council decide goes, no point trying to say anything else.   </end>
<TheMuso> Cya folks. 
<StevenK> TheMuso: Night. 
<imbrandon> laster 
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso. 
<imbrandon> later*
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: the MC shouldn't and I don't think is deciding
<pochu> TheMuso: bye! 
<LaserJock> I think it's become a bit bigger issue than it needed to be
<LaserJock> it's really not KC vs. MC and it's not MOTU vs. KDE
<LaserJock> it's about figuring out the best way to get those packages and maintain Feisty Universe
<imbrandon> LaserJock, but its total BS why it comes up now when its been this way the better part of a year
<imbrandon> and from people that dont touch KDE with a long pointy stick
<LaserJock> that's silly
<LaserJock> most couldn't care less if it was KDE or not
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you're not serious, are you? 
<LaserJock> the issue is a UVFe for what seems to me to be not a very strong case for a UVFe
<imbrandon> its not the fact its KDE, if it was alsa, i would say the same thing, they arent touching it and havent in the past why care now
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I am, and I really wish you guys wouldn't think that people *won't* touch KDE stuff in Universe
<LaserJock> I don't care if it's Gnome, KDE, XFCE, or FVWM
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: based on how many times i've had "can you sponsor my upload?   sure, what is it?   k*, oh, i dont do kde stuff, sorry"
<imbrandon> LaserJock, it not that its KDE specificly, as i said it could be any package set
<Hobbsee> you dont need that too many times, to stop asking
<Hobbsee> but that's moot. 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, that's entirely different, IMO
<LaserJock> not feeling comfortable with a package for sponsorship is really different then being bigoted against KDE
<LaserJock> which seems to be what you're trying to say
<Hobbsee> one effectively leads to the other, i thought
<LaserJock> well, I'd strongly disagree, but ok
<Hobbsee> i may have my definitions wrong, though
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I wouldn't be particularly comfortable sponsoring uploads for most k* packages, as I don't know them.  However, I treat k* packages approximately equally when doing bug-stuff. 
<LaserJock> but I really believe that if it had been some Gnome or Java or whatever packages we'd feel the same way
<StevenK> Allow me to repeat myself. 
<StevenK> Can we not move the argument to IRC, please? 
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Unfortunately, arguing on a mailing list or blog isn't overly effective or realtime. 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, and thats my point, if java had been done like this in edgy ( and before iirc ) and approved as a spec too at UDS 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.   particularly java.   on that basis, you leave the decision to those who actually work regularly with the stuff. 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: no, I leave it to the MOTU to decide, or at least motu-uvf
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Point.  I still hate to see us (as a team) so pollarised. 
<Fujitsu> It is, in the end, up to motu-uvf to make the decision. 
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I see what you mean, of course. 
<imbrandon> exactly, and the motu-uvf should take into great consideration the fact that the people that work with the packages and know them came to a concinsus, not flip it and try to remove them altogather
<StevenK> With Debian Developers you end up expecting it since there are a bunch of jerks in the group. :-) 
<LaserJock> you guys can't just say it's a spec and say that should automatically give it a Freeze exceptioin
<imbrandon> LaserJock, no we're not
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: the cabale
<man-di> StevenK: do you mean the debian java group? 
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: TINC
<StevenK> man-di: I do not. 
<imbrandon> a "no we cant have a uvfe based on this , this and this" would go over a WHOLE lot better than the MC grilling about why its even there when its been there almost a year and discussed openly many times
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ^^
<StevenK> There are a number of DDs I have in mind, but I'm not going to name them publically. 
<StevenK> Or privately, depending on who you are. 
<LaserJock> people have just said that it seems a bit odd to do UVFes and FFes (putting stuff in NEW and then asking if it's ok seems a tad odd)
<LaserJock> for packages that will be fairly quickly outdated, not supported
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: we all know who they are. 
<man-di> StevenK: I agree that some DDs are ... strange
<Fujitsu> This may have gone a whole lot better if MOTU had been brought into the spec into the first place. 
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Well, we have our own private list... :-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I agree that it could all be handled better
<man-di> StevenK: but there are also DDs who are quiete nice and good to work with
<StevenK> Agreed
<imbrandon> see actualy this is exactly why kubuntu needs a diffrent release schedule than ubuntu, ubuntu is based on gnome releases schedule ( or vice versa ) and kubuntu ends up being screwed every release by "just missing it" , look at kde 3.5.6 for edgys schedule
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it was a bit of a sudden request for people not tracking Kubuntu
<imbrandon> etc
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: which is only accessible to those who passed DD, but never mind that.   cases are still known. 
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: I didn't mean debian-private. 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, thats just it, and its the ones that dident give a rats ass untill now making a stiink
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: MOTU doesnt really make decisions anymore - it's the MC now. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: not a lot of them, anyway.   or so it seems
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not when that spec was defined. 
<Hobbsee> true that
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: What I meant, is that I have a list of DDs that a jerks, and your list of who are jerks is probably different. 
<imbrandon> when the spec was defined we hand many MOTU's in on it, only me and riddell were core
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ^
<imbrandon> had*
<Q-FUNK> now that there are 3 supported desktop flavors, release dates should be shifted in order to accomodate all 3 upstream's release schedules. 
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We'd never be able to release. 
<StevenK> I agree with Fujitsu
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, sure you would, just xubutnu and ubuntu and kubuntu wouldent at the same time, and univerwe would be in a perpetual state
<imbrandon> its been talked aobut before
<Q-FUNK> well, given how with KDE the above statement was "just barely missing it"  it wouldn't be too hard to shift from e.g. 7.04 to 7.06
<Fujitsu> StevenK: On which bit? 
<StevenK> Fujitsu: [23:13]  < Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We'd never be able to release. 
<LaserJock> imbrandon: "didn't give a rats ass" is unfair I think.  We all care about Universe, including KDE packages
<Q-FUNK> or, as pointed by the ion upstream on debian, maybe a release ought to only be a core platform consisting of CLI tools, server daemons and X, while desktop apps would only release via backports. 
<LaserJock> just because we are unaware of everything going on with every package doesn't mean we don't care
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Ewwww
<Fujitsu> There aren't enough of us to have any of us not caring about everything. 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you just said "not tracking kubuntu" whats the diffrence in what me and you said other then you were more polite about it ? 
<Fujitsu> I have to agree with StevenK.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Which bit? 
<LaserJock> imbrandon: because no tracking is different than not care
<Fujitsu> StevenK: The `Ewwww'
* StevenK nods. 
<LaserJock> I care deeply about what happens with Kubuntu and KDE packages in Universe
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: There's a difference between not watching every move, and completely ignoring. 
<LaserJock> I don't have time to follow everything that's going on though
<Q-FUNK> let's face it, with the sheer volume of free software out there, it's become impossible to release the latest of absolutely everything in one shot. 
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We're not Gentoo. 
<imbrandon> i got to fix my db, lets all kiss and take it back to the ML
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: We don't try to, or *want* to. 
<Fujitsu> Maintaining the archive in a release-ready steady constantly would be unpleasant
<LaserJock> well, I still haven't gotten an answer to my question on the ML of usability of these packages
<Q-FUNK> ubuntu has the right attitude of having ony stuff in main being guaranteed to ship the latest upstream, but with 3 desktops to track, releasing them al according to gnome's schedule doesn't work. 
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: So take it to the Tech Board
<LaserJock> last time I tried doing some KDE4 stuff I was told that the snapshot packages are going to be always outdated and I shouldn't use them
<StevenK> I'd be curious to read the log. 
<LaserJock> is that still the case? 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, no
<LaserJock> or are these special snapshots? 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: they're somewhat usable.   they'll be more usable when they hit the library freezes
<Q-FUNK> it would probably help to have at least upstream gnome and kde agree on a common release schedule
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Library freezes are post-Feisty, aren't they? 
<LaserJock> these are the questions that I wish we had gotten to
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dunno.   i think so, yeah. 
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: That's not going to happen. 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, no but you got to think, parts may not be but its a whole lot better than building 300MB + of source only when you just need libs updated
<imbrandon> you can use the binarys for the rest
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: in fact, i'm sure it's so
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but we cant tell the kde development people to run feisty+1 with kernel and xorg breakage, just to get the latest kde4 - that's nto fair. 
<Fujitsu> We need experimental, damnit. 
<StevenK> Oh, we so don't. 
<LaserJock> I just felt that there was no explanation as to why these packages were important enough to warrant UVFe and FFe
<StevenK> That's one headache from Debian we don't need. 
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: whch is precisely what makes free software such a drag to maintain.    either we finally get a common DE or either of the popular desktops is always gonna be 1 or 2 releases late. 
<StevenK> PPA would solve this, you know? 
<LaserJock> yes
<imbrandon> LaserJock, because no one asked for an explination ( before starting to say WTF )
<StevenK> Oh damn it, I didn't want to get sucked into this argument. 
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I really don't think that's the case
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It is inevitable. 
<Fujitsu> You will be assimilated. 
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I'll ass-laminate you...
<LaserJock> imbrandon: siretart asked Riddell a number of questions both in IRC and by email and didn't get much of a reply
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: true that.  most people would know "it's kde4, a lot of kde developers run kubuntu, we need to get them easy access to kde4"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: which i think is in the spec, too
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's not exactly my point
<LaserJock> my experience is I talk to KDE and Kubuntu devs and they say they wouldn't use them
<imbrandon> LaserJock, thats because alot of what siretart was asking had already been hasehed out over the past months, it was disrespectfull imho not to go back and read the prior disscussion and just pop in and say "whats up"
<LaserJock> so I'm like "hmm, why are we worrying about them then?" 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, well that experince is 100000% off base
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we were given no prior discussion
<imbrandon> LaserJock, omg you never looked
<LaserJock> well, tell me otherwise! 
<LaserJock> don't just yell at me! 
<imbrandon> there is a ML, irc logs, the spec , etc etc etc
<LaserJock> imbrandon: all we were given is KC wants UVFe
<LaserJock> no link to spec
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.   they're of very limited values before the library freeze  - but we cant really dump new packages into feisty at that point
<imbrandon> ok and? 
<LaserJock> I mean, I just didn't feel like enough info was provided
<Fujitsu> There we go.  Hobbsee has said the packages are unuseful.  QED. 
<LaserJock> and much of a case made
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you sooo need to listen to poisonus people
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: read what i said.   yet. 
<esaym> how does one use pbuilder to build both edgy debs and dapper debs? 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: but that's also my point
<esaym> Like right now it is set up for dapper, how would I set it up for edgy
<LaserJock> it would seem that the library freeze packages would be the most helpful
<Fujitsu> esaym: You need to create an edgy pbuilder. 
<LaserJock> but we don't have a sane way of getting them into Feisty in Universe
<esaym> ok so just do a pbuilder create edgy ? 
<esaym> but wont that overwrite all the dapper stuff? 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed. 
<LaserJock> so why don't we put them in Feisty+1 and backport to Riddell's repo
<esaym> or will it make separate? 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: excluding on kubuntu.org.   but no one apart from ridell has access to that. 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: which is the only reason they're not there already, i think. 
<LaserJock> ok, but that doesn't really seem to be a Universe issue
<LaserJock> if Riddell needs access to more machines or resources I'm sure we can find some
<Hobbsee> it is, but only as the other solution is to stick them in universe
<LaserJock> ok, to be a little more concrete and productive
<lucas> Q-FUNK: if you want to play with bets, I bet that feisty will release on time, but that simple metrics will be able to show that it is of much worse quality than etch ;)
<LaserJock> how many of the packages will be useful beyond the KDE library freeze? 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: as in, after the freeze?   the updated versoins?   all of them, i would expect. 
<bmm_> I get a "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution" rejection from REVU, what am I doing wrong? 
<Hobbsee> bmm_: you're running dput revu *.changes?   are you in the link in the topic? 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I mean, how many of the packages you want to put in Feisty will be useful after the library Freeze
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: at the current versions, or the post freeze versions? 
<bmm_> Yes, I am part of the launchpad group. 
<LaserJock> the versions you want in Feisty
<bmm_> But I didn't ask you guys to "sync with revu" though, that might be the problem? 
<Hobbsee> well, for the ones post-libfreeze, all of htem, or almost all of them
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You're requesting pre-libfreeze, aren't you? 
<LaserJock> I mean, could a person install everything via Feisty, and be pretty much set to work after the library Freeze? 
<LaserJock> I can't imagine it'd quite work that way
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: at the moment yes, to update again later.   from my understanding
<Fujitsu> Oh, gawd. 
<LaserJock> update when? 
<Fujitsu> Mass UVF exceptions post-release....
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: not currently, ie, we cant ship codefrozen product before it's written, you know....
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's our point
* Hobbsee may be wrong there, though. 
<bmm_> Hobbsee: I'm part of the launchpad group, changelog has "feisty; urgency=low", I'm doing dput -f iolanguage_20070226-1_source.changes
<bmm_> Hobbsee: the -f was because I first got a rejection for "unstable; urgency=low"
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out how we are going to get useful packages to people 2-3 months after Feisty is released
<Hobbsee> fine, so say it doesnt go in at all, until the libfreeze is hit - but then we cant put in new packages at all
<LaserJock> exactly
<Hobbsee> bmm_: you need to include revu in there
<Hobbsee> so, we just say "you want kde4, too bad, move to feisty+1"
<LaserJock> but we can't/shouln't put in new upstream versions even if the packages do exist
<Hobbsee> which also seems like a crap solution
<bmm_> Hobbsee: ooh.. ok.  I'll fix that...
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No, we say `use the kubuntu.org repos for Feisty'
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: no, I thought that's what Riddell's repo was for
<Hobbsee> (which is what the KC discussed, incidently)
<bmm_> Hobbsee: thanks! 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they're treated the same as universe, or almost the same. 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I totally think those packages need to be available, but given our freezes and SRU processes it doesn't seem like the best place, IMO
<Hobbsee> quite true. 
<Hobbsee> still, there's no perfect place, and i'm not sure where the best place would be. 
<LaserJock> Riddell's repo is no good? 
<LaserJock> I usually get stuff from there
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it's i386 only, and riddell's the only one who has access to it. 
<LaserJock> if I want latest KDE packages
<Hobbsee> (to the website at all)
<Hobbsee> afaik, non-canonical employees cant get access to update it? 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: ok, but that seems to be his/Kubuntu's issue
<Fujitsu> Create a KDE4 repo/component, then. 
<LaserJock> I just think we can come up with a better solution
<LaserJock> I mean, Universe does solve the immediate issue of upload access and archs
<LaserJock> but then you have to stick to Universe schedules
<LaserJock> which sucks in this case
<LaserJock> if I had anything but i386 I'd offer to help
<LaserJock> if I had enough bandwidth I'd offer to host a repo
<StevenK> I have amd64, and have (privately) offered to help. 
<LaserJock> it's certainly that I don't care about Kubuntu or KDE
<LaserJock> *not
<LaserJock> sorry ;-)
* StevenK quotes LaserJock out of context. 
<LaserJock> darn it
<bmm_> Hobbsee: sorry to have to ask, but I can't find how to "add revu" to the changelog like: should it be "feisty-revu; urgency=low" ? 
<LaserJock> no
<StevenK> bmm_: Not the changelog, the dput command line
<LaserJock> bmm_: it should just be feisty
<Hobbsee> bmm_: use dput revu *.changes
<LaserJock> bmm_: dput revu <path to >_source.changes
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: not *.change, _source.changes :-)
<Hobbsee> rm the .upload file, and it'll stop telling you it's already uploaded
<bmm_> Ah, doing that now.  Thank! 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: good point. 
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I always forget that too
<LaserJock> I'm so used to just having source .changes
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, as long as you dont build binaries without the pbuilder, it never comes up
<LaserJock> until I started cleaning out all the i386.changes out of incoming :-)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: exactly
<LaserJock> it seems people often do
<StevenK> I've gotten used to _source.changes that I nearly threw one to debian
<Q-FUNK> we should have source uploads too
<Q-FUNK> silly to upload binaries
<Q-FUNK> ubuntu sis the right thing on this one
<Q-FUNK> did...
<StevenK> I quite like source-only uploads.  I'm not certain if it's the right thing for Debian. 
<esaym> how do I use apt-get to only download a deb and not install it?   apt-get -d? 
<Q-FUNK> it is.   too many packages get uploaded to debian as i386 binaries with incorrect dependencies that don't get fixed because there's not enough people on non-i386 to make it a priority for developers. 
<Q-FUNK> or rather, with borken build-depends
<Hobbsee> esaym: yes.   man apt-get will tell you, as well
<StevenK> Fire RC-bugs at them.  Failure to build on releaseable arches is RC. 
<Q-FUNK> if they only allowed source builds, nobody gets the newest of whatever until it builds correctly on the buildd. 
<Q-FUNK> it sure is, but I've seen cases where it doesn't get fixed. 
<Q-FUNK> ermm.... source uploads
<StevenK> NMU? 
<StevenK> Debian has procedures for this sort of thing
<Q-FUNK> some maintainers are known to revert NMU on their pcakages
<Q-FUNK> only allowing source uploads would add an extra safeguard that compels maintainers to fix their mess. 
<StevenK> Or have them ignore it. 
<Q-FUNK> not really.   if it doesn't build, it doesn't make it to unstable on any arch at all. 
<esaym> Hobbsee:  I tried apt-get -d but got an error.   I am on dapper and I need to get the edgy xmms deb.   The link on ubuntu packages is down :(
<Q-FUNK> the traditional excuse with i386 uploads is that it works on i386, so it must be soe arch-specific bug.  there.   ignored. 
<Hobbsee> esaym: the xmms edgy deb will likely not work on dapper.   you need to rebuild it. 
<Q-FUNK> they don't even bother checking if indeed is incorect build-depends. 
<esaym> Yes I am back porting the one on fiesty to dapper.   I wanted to look at the edgy one to see if the backported one for dapper will work on edgy....
<danohuiginn> heh.  bug 28763 has been waiting with a patch for a year, because nobody can work out if it's in universe or main.  Efficient ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28763 in lshw "Missing .desktop file" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/28763
<Hobbsee> danohuiginn: yes.   i've looked at that.   it's clearly main. 
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison lshw | grep archive
<Hobbsee>       lshw | 02.08.01-1ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Packages
<Hobbsee>       lshw | 02.08.01-1ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Sources
<Hobbsee> i think it bounced to universe for a while there, though
<Fujitsu> The source has always been in main. 
<Hobbsee> so someone's just incompetent, as the binary was in universe for a while, so they put it under as universe. 
<danohuiginn> now I understand why the bug-fixing procedure is "write a fix, then hassle devs on irc until they commit it"
<Hobbsee> (the developer who did it, that is, by saying "the binary is in universe, we cant fix it")
<Hobbsee> danohuiginn: i dont have permissions to upload that to main.   until someone from main steps up and does it, it wont get done.   simple as that. 
<danohuiginn> ah, well, it happens.  just made me smile
<Hobbsee> ditto to most oftthe other u-u-s people
<bmm> Do you get any mail notifications when REVU accepts or rejects your entry? 
<cbx33> hey guys...
<cbx33> you know the Install icon on the desktop of the live CD
<cbx33> how do i remove it
<bmm> Oh, wait, there is a 5 minute interval in the checks.  So that is probably why I havn't heard anything yet :-)
* bmm to eager to see if it all works
<esaym> anyone know what would cause this error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10475/
<Hobbsee> bmm: it doesnt send mail.   will be on teh front REVU page though
<esaym> I am trying to backport xmms from fiesty to dapper with pbuilder, I got that error while it was building though
<esaym> got a similar error while building python2.5 the otherday too....
<Hobbsee> esaym: /tmp/buildd/xmms-1.2.10+20061201/Input/mikmod/.libs/libmikmod.so: No such file or directory - ie, it's only in a later version of whatever has that
<esaym> Hobbsee: sorry I don't follow, could you clarify a bit?  
<esaym> what do you mean?  a later version of what? 
<cbx333> does anyone know where the Install icon is stored 
<cbx333> in the ubuntu live cd
<cbx333> i'd like to get rid of it for a customised live cd
<Hobbsee> esaym: a later version of the package that actually contains libmikmod.so.   This is why you dont backport stuff over multiple releases in most cases, btw. 
<Hobbsee> or even one release
<LaserJock> cbx333: it's not exactly "stored" it's created on boot
<esaym> Oh, interesting.   So I guess I am screwed then? 
<cbx333> ok what script stores it
<LaserJock> cbx333: you'll need to modify the casper stuff that creates the Livecd user
<cbx333> oh ok
<cbx333> thanks
<cbx333> do you know where those scripts are? 
<Hobbsee> esaym: not exactly, but it's probably harder than you're expecting, may well require you to backport multiple things
<esaym> Hmm, I've got the time,  I will poke around a bit
<jdong> aww, Hobbsee said the B word :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: indeed.   would you like to backport xmms from feisty to dapper? 
<jdong> Hobbsee: ask me on Friday :)
<esaym> lol, Hey thats my project! 
<esaym> there is really no point,  I am only backporting the xmms-wma package which went fine,  I figured I would go ahead and do xmms while I was at it though
<esaym> I thought
<jdong> So what's the plan for nVidia drivers in the future? 
<jdong> Are we to have nvidia-legacy, nvidia-pluslegacy, and nvidia-doublepluslegacy?  :D
<cbx333> LaserJock: it's ok I got it
<LaserJock> cbx333: sorry, too much stuff going on right now :-)
<bmm> Yeah!  It all worked!  Thanks for the help all. 
<cbx333> that's fine
<cbx333> ;)
<jdong> Hobbsee: aren't you *excited*?  New Beryl out today :D
<jdong> I bet you're jumping up and down with nothing but pure joy :)
<LaserJock> "Black Wednesday"
<jdong> LaserJock: because it was White Wednesday last time....
<jdong> well the WSOD is fixed
<jdong> and Xgl works for all I know :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: would it pass the inclusion into ubuntu test? 
<jdong> Hobbsee: from the end-user experience side, I'd say yes
<jdong> Hobbsee: but I have no idea how the packaging looks
<cbx333> can I just edit the splash.pcx file in the isolinux live folder? 
<cbx333> New Beryl? 
<cbx333> cool
<jdong> cbx333: fixes the infamous white-screen-of-death syndrome
<jdong> without the need for copy workarounds. 
* cbx333 never had that
<cbx333> ;)
<jdong> lucky bastard :)
<jdong> well here I was symlinking and copying random things around till it worked :D
<Lutin> heya jdong 
<jdong> hi Lutin
<Lutin> jdong: do you think a backport of mozilla-imagezoom would be ok to fix bug #88581 ? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88581 in imagezoom "mozilla-imagezoom is not compatible with Firefox 2.0.0.x" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88581
* jdong looks
<jdong> launchpad just gave me a binary mime-type file on that url. 
<jdong> ok, loading now
<jdong> Lutin: that should be handled via SRU
<jdong> now that SRU is less PITA. 
<Lutin> jdong: ok, will do a sru then
<jdong> thanks
* cbx333 is trying to do a custom usplash now
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zakame> heya bddebian, *
<bddebian> Hi zakame
<geser> Hi bddebian
* zakame contemplates on what SoC project to do
<bddebian> Heya geser
<bddebian> zakame: Theres a few GNU/Hurd ones ;-P
<geser> bddebian: like release GNU/Hurd? 
<jdong> there's still people who care about that thing? 
* jdong sees RMS running towards him with a crowbar
<zakame> bddebian: have you seen the GNU ideas? 
<zakame> its pretty much asking for doc processing work :/
<bddebian> jdong: Yes but RMS isn't one of them ;-P
<jdong> bddebian: oh there's enough facial hair to go around. 
<bddebian> zakame: No, not for us
<jdong> bddebian: that is his primary source of funding, no? 
<bddebian> geser: Yeah, ,that'd be nice :-)
<zakame> whoa is that xp product code?  :P
<esaym> alright I backported libmikmod2-dev from fiesty which has libmikmod.so but I still get the same error http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10475/
<esaym> For the new folks I am trying to backport xmms from fiesty to dapper
<verwilst> if you do an invoke-rc.d restart
<verwilst> but the service isn't running
<verwilst> what is the recommended behaviour
<verwilst> error out, or just start the service? 
<Lutin> verwilst: basically in init.d scripts, restart is stop + start, so I'd say just start it
<verwilst> and start, if the program is already running? 
<verwilst> exit 0 or 1? 
<geser> restart = stop and restart the service if it's already running, otherwise start the service (from the Debian policy)
<verwilst> because snmpd returns 1 a lot
<verwilst> which breaks my scripts :)
<verwilst> i'll report a bug
<verwilst> and a status parameter
<verwilst> that's not deprecated i guess? 
<allee> siretart: hi,  I'm right now setting up an feisty install env.   Question is: should I stick with what's in feisty or merge 3.1.8 bugfixes and start testing with this, then ask for UVF? 
<siretart> allee: it would be great if you could prepare a fai-kernels package using 2.6.20. 
<siretart> allee: I think the fai in feisty should/could still work.  if you have problems, I wouldn't object to grant an UVF for fai
<allee> siretart: ah right, that's also missing. 
<siretart> (for the interested reader: I'm following the fai development)
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<pochu> siretart: can you review bug 90407 ? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
<pochu> see u folks! 
<jwendell> dholbach, i've rebuild a new version of gnomesword, should i submit it to revu? 
<dholbach> jwendell: what is it?  a new version?  a rebuild?  some changes? 
<jwendell> dholbach, a rebuild with a few changes (maintainer, for example)
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> the normal sponsoring process is outlined over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<dholbach> simply file a bug, attach a debdiff, assign to ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<dholbach> they'll pick it up and upload it
<jwendell> dholbach, ah ok (the bug is already created :))
<dholbach> super
<LaserJock> jwendell: once you do ^^ ping me and I'll try to have a look
<jwendell> LaserJock, just a minute ;)
* LaserJock races jwendell to update his pbuilder
<jwendell> LaserJock, sorry?  i don't use pbuilder :(
<LaserJock> nah, I'm updating my pbuilder while you are debdiffing
<LaserJock> oh, btw
<LaserJock> dholbach might be intersted in this
<dholbach> in what? 
<jwendell> should i assign or just subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors ? 
<LaserJock> today at the Launchpad Dev meeting they approved the "motu" tag for launchpad bugs
<LaserJock> jwendell: subscribe is fine I think
<dholbach> LaserJock: in what? 
<LaserJock> dholbach: for bugs in Launchpad
<dholbach> could you elaborate? 
<LaserJock> against
<LaserJock> so if there is a LP bug that is particularly important for us
<dholbach> ah ok
<LaserJock> I can give it the "motu" tag
<dholbach> nice
<LaserJock> and LP devs will know it's high priority for us
<geser> LaserJock: does it also apply for bugs filed against soyuz? 
<LaserJock> geser: yes
<LaserJock> any launchpad product
<LaserJock> let me know what ones and I'll organize them
<joejaxx> :)
<jwendell> LaserJock, can i gzip debdiff? ( it has 1.5MB)
<LaserJock> 1.5MB?? 
<LaserJock> that's a bit more than a few changes
<man-di> LaserJock: a small bit
<jwendell> LaserJock, configure stuff
<geser> LaserJock: any idea who I can poke about bug #87077?  infinity is hard to reach these days
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
<rexbron> bddebian: ping, I have gotten 2 acks for a UVF.  Would you beable to upload the updated source? 
<rexbron> bddebian: bug 88908
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88908 in murrine "[UVFe]  update to 0.51" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88908
<LaserJock> geser: hmm, not sure
<LaserJock> jwendell: just attach it to the bug report and I'll have a look
<jwendell> dholbach, i've detected an error in upstream configure script.  I changed configure.in and ran autoconf.  Everythink worked ok, but size of diff got 1.5MB.  Is there any other way to do this? 
<dholbach> you could run autoconf in debian/rules
<dholbach> i'd rather keep the diff until upstream fixed it
<dholbach> but that's up to you
<jwendell> dholbach, how can i run autoconf in debian/rules? 
<dholbach> i'm quite busy atm - I'd prefer if you asked somebody else - you'll also need to build-depend on autoconf
<LaserJock> jwendell: for now we can probably deal with it as is
<jwendell> LaserJock, the problem is: since that hour, when i said '1 minute' i'm trying to upload the debdiff into the bug...
<LaserJock> heh
* jwendell tries again
<LaserJock> jwendell: would email work better for you? 
<jwendell> LaserJock, bug 92489
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92489 in gnomesword "[feisty]  unmet dependencies (libgtkhtml3.8-15)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92489
<LaserJock> jwendell: ok, so what exactly did you do? 
<LaserJock> just the changelog, Maintainer field, dep change, and that patch? 
<jwendell> LaserJock, dropped 2 patches not used;
<LaserJock> dropped them from the Debian package? 
<jwendell> LaserJock, yep
<LaserJock> do they cause problems? 
<jwendell> not used
<jwendell> not used
<LaserJock> ok, then lest keep those
<LaserJock> the rule of the game right now is to minimize the changes we make from Debian
<jwendell> LaserJock, change configure.in (and consequently configure) to include libgnomeprint and libgnomeprintui 
<LaserJock> we can then file bugs, etc.  in Debian to get things changed
<jwendell> LaserJock, changed changelog :P
<jwendell> LaserJock, changed control (maintainers and build-dep)
<LaserJock> right
<jwendell> LaserJock, changed 3 lines on src/gnome2/html.c, with compiler errors
<jwendell> LaserJock, but i just saw that there is a new upstream version, 2.2.2.1, should i try it? 
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> jwendell: so you took out window_title.diff and strongs_search.diff? 
<jwendell> LaserJock, yep
<LaserJock> were the html.c changes a part of the gtkhtml patch stuff? 
<jwendell> LaserJock, i was getting errors about libgtkhtml, so i saw that there was changes in some gtk_html_print functions
<jwendell> LaserJock, i just renamed 2 function calls
<LaserJock> jwendell: so maybe those should go in 02_fix_gtkhtml_print.patch? 
<jwendell> LaserJock, yep
<LaserJock> ok, so if you don't drop those 2 patches
<LaserJock> but the html.c changes in the gtkhtml patch
<LaserJock> *put
<LaserJock> you might want to see if the control.in changes should go in that patch as well
<LaserJock> that should cut down the debdiff a fair amount
<jwendell> LaserJock, i dropped control.in
<jwendell> forgot to say
<ScottK> If we haven't had the beta freeze yet, I'd appreciate if if someone from UUS would take a look at Bug #92569 and upload the patch if it's packaged correctly.  
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92569 in libspf2 "Intermittent incorrect SPF results" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92569
<LaserJock> beta freeze doesn't effect Universe exactly
<ScottK> Ah.   OK.   Cool. 
<X3N> Are there any known problems with the repostories for feisty at the moment ? 
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<X3N> I'm having lots of dependencies not being met
<jussi01> repos are working fine for me, had to update pbuilder yesterday though
<ScottK> X3N: I tried to update my Feisty box a few hours ago from the US repo and it looked like there was a kernel update only partially propogated. 
<X3N> hmm
<X3N> which servers are the most reliable ? 
<LaserJock> PriceChild: pingy pingy
<PriceChild> pong LaserJock 
<LaserJock> PriceChild: czester in -devel is complaining about you banning people
<PriceChild> LaserJock, We're under a troll attack
<LaserJock> PriceChild: are you in #ubuntu-ops? 
<PriceChild> Yeah
<PriceChild> Sorry about this LaserJock 
<LaserJock> np dude, just wanted to let you know
<X3N> i've got stuck in dependency hell, anyway out ? 
<X3N> 9 conflicts and aptidute can't work out a solution
<LaserJock> what does a apt-get dist-upgrade give you? 
<X3N> all the errors for the unmet dependencies
<LaserJock> what kind of unmet deps
<X3N> for example python-examples depends on python 2.5 but 2.4 is installed
<X3N> which is infact wrong
<X3N> as python --version gives 2.5
<LaserJock> I haven't got anything like that
<fernando> hi all.  what's the better way to create a local ubuntu mirror?  apt-mirror? 
<LaserJock> you could also rsync
<LaserJock> or debmirror
<LaserJock> or reprepro
<LaserJock> kinda depends on what you have in mind
<fernando> many choices :P
<LaserJock> it's Linux! 
<LaserJock> :-)
<fernando> heheh
<fernando> right
<pochu> ajmitch: please, if you have a moment, could you review bug 90407?  thanks in advance :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
<dholbach> is doomrunner.lists@gmail.com here? 
<dholbach> I'll turn off motu mails to your account - they get all bounced like mad
<dholbach> ok, mailed him (to another address)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping ping ring ring
<bddebian> Later gang
<LaserJock> cya bddebian 
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> always too late
<ajmitch> he always departs so fast
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heya. 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: read what I just said in #launchpad
<Fujitsu> I just did. 
<Fujitsu> Works fine for me. 
<LaserJock> I only got 11 bugs for motuscience :(
<Fujitsu> You sure you haven't got some other filter on? 
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> ok, I've started out at ~motuscience/+subscribedbugs
<LaserJock> is that the problem? 
<Fujitsu> Ah. 
<Fujitsu> Yes. 
<LaserJock> k
<Fujitsu> That would only search in that list. 
<LaserJock> where should I be doing it then? 
<Fujitsu> You want to start in /ubuntu
<Fujitsu> It's the same as a normal search.  It only searches within the specified context. 
<LaserJock> well, I guess I figured since ~motuscience was the bug contact I was looking for it'd make sense ;-)
<Fujitsu> Sort of.  but that's not how LP works.  If something makes sense, you're probably doing it the wrong way. 
<crimsun> tsmithe: you can email bdmurray, TheMuso, _MMA_, and myself
<crimsun> tsmithe: it's more important to get the minutes up on wiki.uc
<tsmithe> sure thing
<tsmithe> yea - i just want people to be clued up on what's happening :)
<Fujitsu> Do we still not have a tag for bugs that just require .desktop changes/additions? 
<dholbach> if you add one, also add 'bitesize' and add it to BugSquad/Tags
<LaserJock> I thought we had one
<Fujitsu> There isn't one on the page dholbach mentioned. 
<Fujitsu> Anybody got any recommendations for what name to use? 
<LaserJock> perhaps desktop-file ? 
<LaserJock> do we know the character constraints? 
<Fujitsu> I believe hyphens are OK. 
<Fujitsu> If not, I'll find out in a sec. 
<LaserJock> desktop is too general
<LaserJock> I don't know if .desktop would work
<Fujitsu> I can't see any tags using .s
<Fujitsu> And desktop is too general. 
<Fujitsu> desktop-file is pretty good. 
<crimsun> how about missing-desktop-file to make it even more descriptive? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<honestlyenough> How does the naming scheme of Ubuntu packages work? 
<Fujitsu> But then we've got some that are the wrong category or similar... missing-desktop-file doesn't fit for them. 
<LaserJock> what do you mean by naming? 
<LaserJock> versioning? 
<honestlyenough> If I have (source version) 0.1 on a package called mypackage, do I need to add anything beyond mypackage-0.1 ? 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh, right
<honestlyenough> Yes, versioning would be more accurately describing what I'm asking. 
<LaserJock> honestlyenough: yes
<LaserJock> Debian puts on a -X where X is an integer
<Fujitsu> honestlyenough: The name of the package is simply mypackage. 
<LaserJock> so mypackages-0.1-1
<honestlyenough> LaserJock: I've seen -1ubuntu3 and what not, but that serves only to confuse me. 
<LaserJock> honestlyenough: in that examlple -1 is the Debian version
<honestlyenough> LaserJock: What does the 3 represent? 
<LaserJock> Ubuntu revision
<honestlyenough> LaserJock: Gothca.  But what about if I wanted this package to make it into the repository? 
<honestlyenough> LaserJock: The Ubuntu universe repository specifically. 
<LaserJock> if it's not in Debian then the Debian revision is 0
<Fujitsu> It would be mypackage, version 0.1-0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> so -0ubuntu1
<honestlyenough> Ahhhh. 
<honestlyenough> So what's the difference between the Ubuntu revision number and the Debian version number? 
<honestlyenough> Ah, thanks a bunch. 
<Fujitsu> The Ubuntu revision is changes made in Ubuntu, and Debian is for those made by Debian. 
<crimsun> Fujitsu: fair enough, though it would probably be better to enumerate additional tags IMO
<Fujitsu> crimsun: They're all trivial, and should be lumped together IMO. 
<Fujitsu> Otherwise we're going to end up with an enormous number of widely-used tags. 
<danohuiginn> honestlyenough: if you use dch -i to edit the changelog, it'll sort out the version number for you (I believe)
<honestlyenough> Maybe this is a bit offtopic, but if I submitted this to Debian, and it somehow made it through their process, would I still keep mypackage-1ubuntu3 for their releases as well? 
<honestlyenough> Or would it be something entirely different like mypackage-0.1-1
<honestlyenough> The mypackage-1ubuntu3 was supposed to be mypackage-0.1-1ubuntu3
<Fujitsu> honestlyenough: mypackage 0.1-1 would be the first debian release. 
<Fujitsu> honestlyenough: For a new package in ubuntu, it's 0.1-0ubuntu1, not -1ubuntu1
<honestlyenough> Gotcha.  So strip out the Ubuntu specific stuff then. 
<honestlyenough> Okay, it's all clear now :)
<honestlyenough> You guys are a helpful bunch, maybe this is why Ubuntu is so popular :)
<LaserJock> of course ;-)
<LaserJock> honestlyenough: if you are interested in more packaging info we have a packaging guide
<LaserJock> ! packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<honestlyenough> LaserJock: An Ubuntu specific packaging guide?  I've read through the Debian one a few times. 
<honestlyenough> Hmm, okay, I'll take a look. 
<honestlyenough> Hmm, I can't seem to join the #ubuntu channel (I'm using tor).  Out of curiosity, why is tor banned there?  It certainly isn't banned here. 
<LaserJock>  #ubuntu gets a lot of attacks
<Fujitsu> There have been a lot of attacks from tor-based users. 
<Fujitsu> (it has over 1000 people in it, most of the time)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> gah
<honestlyenough> Ah.  That's a shame. 
<crimsun> Fujitsu: sounds fair
<Fujitsu> crimsun: So, we just have the one? 
<LaserJock> I think it's not quite so useful to seperate them
<LaserJock> they're basically all bitesize and similar
<Fujitsu> That's what I think. 
<crimsun> Fujitsu: yes, just one
<honestlyenough> Wow, the Ubuntu guide, in my humble opinion, is sooo much better than the Debian New Maintainer's Guide.  This bias might have to do with the fact that I read the Debian guide first and thus know more of the terminology for the Ubuntu guide. 
<honestlyenough> But, nonetheless, the guide is really nicely designed -- website and all. 
<Fujitsu> The Ubuntu guide is more aimed at normal people, I think.  It's a whole lot more readable. 
<LaserJock> honestlyenough: let us know if you find something wrong or confusing, there are a few bugs in there I already know about
<LaserJock> \o/, new ubuntu.com is out
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I noticed :)
<Fujitsu> It's apparently Drupal based... How did they convince the sysadmins it was a good idea? 
<TheMuso> wow
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I don't think it is drupal
* TheMuso tries to look for node paths but can't find any yet. 
<TheMuso> Probably just using aliases. 
<Fujitsu> `You will soon see that the main www.ubuntu.com website has changed.  It
<Fujitsu> has a new look and is now based on the drupal CMS.' 
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> doh
<Fujitsu> (mail from mnuzum on loco-contacts)
<LaserJock> I guess it could have been worse ... wordpress
<TheMuso> My guess is because the fridge is also drupal, they want to keep consistancy. 
<Fujitsu> The new one looks a whole lot nicer in some ways. 
<LaserJock> check out the download page
<Fujitsu> Especially without the big useless block up the top. 
<Fujitsu> The tabbed thing, LaserJock? 
* ajmitch wonders why they chose drupal
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: No idea.  I thought the sysadmins would have screamed at the thought. 
<LaserJock> tabs with radio buttons
<ajmitch> crazy, the only download mirror for NZ/Australia is ftp.citylink.co.nz
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: traceroute to that address & see where it ends up :)
<LaserJock> I see they fixed my server bug :-)
<TheMuso> Probably because drupal is actually well maintained and supported upstream, and writing extra modules is very easy. 
<ajmitch> haha, australian mirrors are listed as in europe
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Which one? 
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Great! 
<ajmitch> "Oceana"? 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: on the "beta" version under the server tab both items were Ubuntu 6.06 :-)
* ajmitch wonders if we should file a pile of bugs on this
<jdong> ajmitch: hey, I read a book about that place once.  they've got cool 2-way TV screens....
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: A few piles would be better. 
<LaserJock> Australia vs Austria perhaps? 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hahahahah. 
* Fujitsu stomps on LaserJock. 
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I mean maybe that's what they accidently did
<honestlyenough> Tangentially, I've got a really FUBAR'd machine.  The CMOS battery, I suspect doesn't function.  However, if the CMOS battery doesn't work, is that in any way a cause for this sort of behavior?:  http://phpfi.com/215957
<Fujitsu> Why is it Oceana/Australia!?  Not only is Oceana spelt from, Australia is part of it anyway. 
<Fujitsu> Let's file bugs!  Lots of them! 
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: exactly :)
<LaserJock> yes, but the I think the thought the Australia items were Austria, hence would go in Europe
<ajmitch> ftp.citylink.co.nz will probably go to the US for anyone that doesn't peer at APE or WIX
<LaserJock> bug away
<LaserJock> *bugs
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's just funny that they list australia as a region, but the mirrors are in europe
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It seems to go through the US for me, but there's very little reverse-DNS available. 
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yep
<LaserJock> it really goes to the US? 
<Fujitsu> That sounds like it'd be /really/ fast. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yup. 
* TheMuso checks the route for him. 
<ajmitch> whereas it's about 3ms from the work server to ftp.citylink.co.nz
<TheMuso> whats everyone using?  Tracepath
<ajmitch> mtr
<Fujitsu> mtr
<Fujitsu> I get a little over 200ms. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: You on optus atm?  Westnet goes through optus currently, so I'd say our routes would be very similar. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I find Westnet does yield similar routes, yes. 
* Fujitsu files the "Australia isn't in Europe" bug. 
<TheMuso> haha
<LaserJock> it'd be funny if they put everthing in Europe
<LaserJock> a little geo-biased
<Fujitsu> My ubuntu-website bug got its importance and assignee set within 4 minutes... They're good. 
<TheMuso> WOw! 
<Burgwork> Fujitsu: they are agressively attempting to fix all bugs
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: Good to hear. 
<Burgwork> wow
<Burgwork> bug stats is a bloody scary number
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: > 24000? 
<Burgwork> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
<Burgwork> look at that graph'
<Burgwork> and be scared
<Fujitsu> Yep. 
<Fujitsu> I look at it regularly
<Fujitsu> We gained 3000 open bugs in February :-/
<Burgwork> while I watch http://intihuatani.usc.edu/cloud/video.htm
<Fujitsu> Oops, 2000. 
<honestlyenough> I wish I joined this channel earlier. 
<Fujitsu> honestlyenough: What's so good about it? 
<honestlyenough> You guys would have saved me a couple days of reading through the rather dry Debian New Package Maintainer's Guide. 
<honestlyenough> Fujitsu: The Ubuntu Packaging Guide is so much more helpful for me. 
<Fujitsu> What do people think about UTF-8 compatibility bugs?  Wishlist?  Low?  Otherwise? 
<Fujitsu> honestlyenough: That's great to hear :)
<Fujitsu> So, Burgwork: Fix bugs! 
* Fujitsu cracks a whip. 
* Adri2000 takes care of libsdl-sound1.2 (last email on -motu)
<honestlyenough> Fujitsu: I asked a lot of these questions on the Debian channels and people were usually pretty responsive to them, but all of them could have been answered by this guide. 
<honestlyenough> Fujitsu: Oh, well.  Lesson learned :)
<honestlyenough> I suppose I should take some grammar lessons ;)
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: I hadn't even seen that email until you mentioned it!  You're quick. 
<Adri2000> :
* TheMuso attacks bugs with patches, as noted on the TODO. 
<TheMuso> Particularly those that are several pages in. 
<honestlyenough> If a package installs something to /usr/sbin, lintian -i mypackage-version-arch.deb claims I need a man page to conform to the Policy regulations.  However, I've seen many packages where there is a mypackage and a separate mypackage-docs.  If I've only got one manpage, am I really supposed to break this package up into two separate Ubuntu packages? 
<Fujitsu> honestlyenough: Just put the manpages in mypackage. 
<zul> hey
<Fujitsu> Hi zul. 
<danohuiginn> launchpad doesn't distinguish between 'confirmed' meaning 'needs somebody to investigate/fix' and 'confirmed' meaning 'has been fixed, waiting for the patch to be committed'.  Is that right? 
<Fujitsu> danohuiginn: `In progress' is generally used for the latter of those. 
<Fujitsu> There is also a feature to search for bugs which have patches attached. 
<danohuiginn> OK, Fujitsu
<danohuiginn> but not one to search for bugs *without* patches attached as far as I can see
<danohuiginn> which is what I'd want, as I'm after things to fix, not things to commit
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: Have you looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO? 
<Fujitsu> danohuiginn: Indeed, that feature seems to be absent. 
<danohuiginn> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix says set bugs to 'confirmed' when you have a patch
<danohuiginn> thanks, TheMuso (also thanks for that upload the other day).  I'll have a look through there
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Fujitsu> Hey sistpoty. 
<TheMuso> Hey sistpoty. 
<sistpoty> hi Fujitsu and TheMuso
<TheMuso> danohuiginn: You're welcome. 
<TheMuso> _MMA_: What is your thoughts on packages such as ubuntustudio-sounds regarding the maintainer field?  As you may know, either the maintainer field has to have someone who has an @ubuntu.com address, or it must have MOTU as maintainer. 
<TheMuso> Before this goes into the archive, this needs to be changed. 
<_MMA_> TheMuso: We can mark 'em as tsmithe or joejaxx. 
<sistpoty> hooray, trigger was mentioned as favorite game on the planet :)
<_MMA_> TheMuso: I havnt pursued my membership yet. 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-16
<poningru> halp
<poningru> how would i get a gnome-panel widget to display a popup
<poningru> aka use libnotify to display some msg
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what do you think my chances are of getting them to make source packages dget'able from LP? 
<LaserJock> or maybe wget'able
<jdong> they are wgettable...
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'd thought of filing a bug about that, but then decided the chances of it happening were too low. 
<jdong> using a 3-step copy paste :D
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You might want to ask in #launchpad. 
<jdong> or scraping the LP URL
<jdong> dscrape :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I've been thinking about it too
<LaserJock> it just seems so unhelpful to split them up like that
<LaserJock> I was thinking maybe it'd be possible to either tar them up in one big file
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice to be able to do something like `dget lp:package/version', like you can with bzr, or even `dget http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package/version', but having them gettable using normal dget would be the first step. 
<sistpoty> dgettable! ;) 
<imbrandon> moins all
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: I like it! 
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: dget?  definitely... it's even shorter to type than fetch_package.py :)
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon
<LaserJock> anybody got a clue on how to disable NetworkManager without uninstalling it? 
<RAOF> LaserJock: You can put something in /etc/network/interfaces
<Fujitsu> RAOF: That doesn't work in Feisty. 
<RAOF> But it occurs to me that that's not what you're after. 
<LaserJock> yeah, that just makes it mad
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Oh, cool.   That's a recent change, though, right? 
<LaserJock> :-)
<Fujitsu> Gah, where are the initscripts for it these days? 
<LaserJock> all I see are regular networking initscripts
<Fujitsu> There used to be NetworkManager, but not any more. 
<LaserJock> yeah, it's been too integrated for me to find
<_MMA_> LaserJock: TheMuso is actually showing me how to stop the daemon but I should still file a bug about this. 
<LaserJock> hmm, I found the NM applet autostart .desktop
<Fujitsu> Ah:
<Fujitsu> /etc/dbus-1/event.d/
<Fujitsu> If you modify the two NM things in there to make it not start, it won't start. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's jut the applet. 
<LaserJock> yeah, I was poking in there but I have no idea what I'd do
<Fujitsu> Sticking an exit 0; on top might help. 
<LaserJock> well, it should be easier then that, that's all I gotta say
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: chmod -x also works for the files in /etc/dbus1/event.d
<Fujitsu> You could always remove it, you know. 
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but that takes out ubuntu-desktop
<Fujitsu> ... that's just stupid. 
<LaserJock> and ubuntu-desktop is nice to have around when you're doing a lot of updating
<TheMuso> LaserJock: chmod -x /etc/dbus-1/event.d/22dhcdbd and the one for network manager
<TheMuso> I've done this before with no problems. 
<LaserJock> that'll kill just NM or is more taken out? 
<TheMuso> Just nm afaik. 
<LaserJock> hehe, I just do a doc string freeze exception just for that little nugget ;-)
<TheMuso> I never use GNOME, but on my notebook I found that the ethernet interface came up as soon as I connected the cable, which I didn't want. 
<TheMuso> SO I disabled the 22dhcdbd
<LaserJock> do you use any DE normally or just CLI
<TheMuso> LaserJock: CLI the vast majority of the time. 
<TheMuso> If I use GUI, its on another box and I mostly use my eyes. 
<LaserJock> what do you use for browsing? 
<LaserJock> yeah, I remember at Paris you used your eyes a lot it seemed
<LaserJock> looked painful actually
<TheMuso> elinks
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Back then I was in a rather bad habbit. 
<TheMuso> WHich I have almost got rid of completely. 
<TheMuso> SOmetimes I find looking at things helps me think clearer about something. 
<TheMuso> WHich I am trying to change. 
<LaserJock> interesting
<TheMuso> Yeah. 
<TheMuso> I actually find it hard to use speech alone when writing any form of code. 
<LaserJock> hmm, is that because coding is more spatial, rather than auditory? 
<TheMuso> Don't know. 
<TheMuso> Probably. 
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to use elinks on LP right now
<LaserJock> I don't know the keyboard commands all that well
<TheMuso> Works rather well actually, if you have it built with javascript support. 
<LaserJock> but it seem actually pretty decent
<TheMuso> Its very customizable., 
<LaserJock> do you know if the default Feisty package has javascript support? 
<TheMuso> It doesn't. 
<LaserJock> ah
<TheMuso> And it would be a big mess to try and get it to do so. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why the mess
<Fujitsu> *? 
<TheMuso> I just grab it from git and build it myself. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: xullrunner/libmozjs
<Fujitsu> Oh. 
<Fujitsu> That'd do it. 
<imbrandon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4   kill -9 ftw
<WxorX> imbrandon: is that that rap thing? 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Its very fun building elinks on a system that also has firefox installed. 
<imbrandon> WxorX, yea
<WxorX> "rap"
<WxorX> watched that a week back, pretty amusing
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I saw that a week or so ago.  Pretty good. 
<LaserJock> darn, it's always a bit sad to see when users recommend people *not* user our packages
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where's this? 
<Fujitsu> Hm, it only had 9.5k views when I last looked.  A little different now. 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: forums, maxima
<Fujitsu> Oh gawd. 
* Fujitsu looks. 
<Fujitsu> What's the complaint this time? 
<LaserJock> ever since that bug
<Fujitsu> Ah. 
<Fujitsu> Bug #43150? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<_MMA_> LaserJock: TheMuso's advise worked.  I dont know if I should file this as a bug though. :-/ 
<LaserJock> people have just gotten into the habit
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, it *should* be easier if it isn't already
<_MMA_> Does NetworkManager show up in "Services"? 
<_MMA_> That would be nice. 
<jdong> no
<_MMA_> grr...
<jdong>  /etc/dbus-1/event.d
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: "I would say the only problem is that you are using Ubuntu's package for Maxima.   Build your own.   You will be happier." 
<jdong> 25NetworkManager
<jdong> takes same arguments as a sysvinit script
<jdong> but d-bus usually takes care of starting it
<_MMA_> jdong: Yeah.  I have that all disables now. :) 
<_MMA_> It would just be nice to have a easy way to do it. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I just found that. 
<Fujitsu> That's depressing. 
<Fujitsu> File bugs, you silly people. 
<LaserJock> they even have a wiki page on how to build it from source
<jdong> LaserJock: ha, I did that for ffmpeg too ;-)
* jdong ducks
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'm sure I added a comment to that saying to file bugs or similar. 
<LaserJock> I don't mind people posting workarounds until we can get a proper fix
<Fujitsu> But they need to file bugs, damnit. 
<LaserJock> but when the general advice is to not use the Ubuntu packages, even after the fix is out
<LaserJock> it becomes a bit ... what's my favorite word? 
<LaserJock> "demotivating"
<Fujitsu> Yep. 
<Fujitsu> Are you formulating a reply? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> just gotta make sure it's not an existing bug we haven't fixed ;-)
<Fujitsu> It probably is. 
<Fujitsu> I can't see one. 
<Fujitsu> (and I've looked through every bug a couple of times over the past 24 hours)
* sistpoty is off to bed... gn8 everyone
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why does it look like it wants libc6-dev there? 
<Fujitsu> That can't be right...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: how can you tell? 
<Fujitsu> Look at the includes it can't find. 
<Fujitsu> Indeed. 
<Fujitsu> Remove libc6-dev and I get those errors. 
<Fujitsu> Why the *$#@ is it trying to compile stuff? 
<Fujitsu> Fortunately for us, building their own maxima isn't going to help them. 
<LaserJock> oh, I was looking at the wrong error output
<LaserJock> that's odd
<LaserJock> I don't see why it would be compiling stuff when you run a plot command
<Fujitsu> It isn't. 
<imbrandon> there is alot of talk on p.d.o lately about cross complining, and i'm always still intrested in it, anyone know if there is an oftc debian-cross channell or mailing list ? 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: then what is it doing? 
<Fujitsu> describe(plot2d) is the problem command.  I have no idea what describe does. 
<LaserJock> it looks like a help command
<LaserJock> he tries ?  plot2d as well
* Fujitsu looks. 
<Fujitsu> so he does. 
<Fujitsu> And it gives a different error without maxima-doc. 
<Fujitsu> So why is it compiling stuff when you are trying to view documentation? 
<LaserJock> libc6-dev is installed when  you install build-essential isn't it? 
<Fujitsu> Yes. 
<Fujitsu> Seems to be fine on Feisty. 
<LaserJock> without libc6-dev? 
<Fujitsu> Yep. 
<LaserJock> so that's why it would magically work after they build it themselves
<LaserJock> because they install build-essential to checkinstall their "better" maxima
<Fujitsu> Yep. 
<LaserJock> I can't find anything on this in Debian
<Fujitsu> And now they blame us.  Of course. 
<Fujitsu> Neither can I.
<Fujitsu> It doesn't affect Edgy or Feisty. 
<Fujitsu> But if you have no libc6-dev on Dapper, boom. 
<Fujitsu> And I can't find any other references to a similar thing on Google. 
<LaserJock> ok, well it looks like I'm fresh out of mean
<LaserJock> but I posted something anyway
<TheMuso> If a package originally from revu that is in the archive gets an update, it only needs one ack to be uploaded right? 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It just needs to be uploaded. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right. 
<TheMuso> And archived I guess. 
<Fujitsu> Well, yes. 
<TheMuso> yep ok
<Fujitsu> Thanks LaserJock, I'm no good at writing replies like that. 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: was mine decent? 
<LaserJock> you can add a sound lashing if you want ;-)
<Fujitsu> It was pretty good. 
<Fujitsu> If it happens again, I'll work a little bit of anger and demotivation into a response ;)
<Fujitsu> Now, I need to head of to school in a minute. 
<LaserJock> hmm, the forums look updated too
<LaserJock> like a cohesive "plan" must have happend
<Fujitsu> I'll be updating my sites with the new one in the next couple of days. 
<Fujitsu> I must now depart. 
<Fujitsu> Bye all. 
<LaserJock> cya Fujitsu 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<TheMuso> Heya bddebian. 
<bddebian> Heya TheMuso
<bddebian> Has everyone already voted for Ubuntu?   http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/linux
<TheMuso> Yep. 
<jdong_> ha, that reminds me of how one of my teachers pronounced aspx
<jdong_> took him a while to realize what he was saying. 
<Fujitsu_> Can a core-dev please ack the Dapper task on bug #92710? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92710 in maxima "describe or ?  cause error" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92710
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> wesnoth no longer ships any campaigns in the core package
<Burgundavia> this is cracked
<bddebian> It got split into different tarballs
<Burgundavia> bddebian: I see that
<Burgundavia> add/remove doesn't know that
<Burgundavia> and thus installs no campaigns
<bddebian> Ugh
<Burgundavia> there is already a bug out there for getting a metapackage available
<bddebian> When I updated it for Dapper I think, I made the campaign that used to be in the core package a depends I thought
<imbrandon_> heya Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon_. 
<imbrandon_> ello TheMuso
* imbrandon_ is doing a clean install , refreshing after some months
<Burgundavia> I hate flash with a passion
<imbrandon_> lol Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> it is currently bringing my machine to its knees
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Which box? 
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yes, if only it wasn't everywhere
<imbrandon_> i wish i had sabdfl's money, i would buy flash
<Burgundavia> swfdec made a new release
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: my main workstation at home
<Burgundavia> somebody better package it for me :)
<TheMuso> ah
<imbrandon_> Burgundavia: if i get time at work tonight i will
<Burgundavia> rock
<TheMuso> What about UVF? 
<Burgundavia> eh, that is bypassable
<imbrandon_> i can try for a uvfe, if not Burgundavia getsa a personal package built ;)
<Burgundavia> the version in the archives is ancient
* imbrandon_ hugs scorched3d ;)
<imbrandon_> ok base system installed, brb
<Burgundavia> ok, is it just me or has performance under load gotten a whole lot worse
<Burgundavia> ? 
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> it seems like to me that apt/synaptic are real hogs these days
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> well, to be fair, only developers really only see the bad grind
<Burgundavia> updating GNOME is a real hog
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i found some dual proc 1.3 ghz ppc g4 xservs for 1300.00
<imbrandon> 1gb ram
<ajmitch> nice
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: nice
<imbrandon> http://www.mac-resource.com/store.php?item=0000327.SERV&option1000125=100012502&option1000126=100012603&option1000127=100012701&option1000128=100012802&quantity=1#
<imbrandon> wow long url
<imbrandon> but thats still doable
<fernando> imbrandon: here it cost U$ 4000,00 (R$ 8500,00) =)
<imbrandon> wow
<fernando> welcome to third world hehehe the real value + 60 % taxes
* LaserJock hugs ajmitch 
<LaserJock> that choral music is a lifesaver
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> keeps you sane? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<Burgundavia> sanity is entirely relative, especially in most of our cases
<LaserJock> I'm here at the lab groovin to the tuns
<LaserJock> especially in Burgundavia case ;-)
<Burgundavia> hey! 
<LaserJock> did I say that out loud?  :p
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> nah, Corey's even got a gf
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> he a real "normal person"
<ajmitch> and you're married
<LaserJock> *he's
<ajmitch> so we hear
<LaserJock> so I've heard
* imbrandon thinks thats why he is divorced , she always told me i should marry my computer ;)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I've gotten a few "You should divorce your computer"s
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch wonders what is more important - wife or ubuntu? 
<Burgundavia> I date a co-worker
<imbrandon> heh dont ever let "her" hear you ask that ;)
<LaserJock> some days ... <slap>
<Burgundavia> you define that as normal? 
<LaserJock> fairly
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, very
<imbrandon> i have dated many co-workers
<Burgundavia> shes a somethingawful reader
<LaserJock> and yet he's single .. hmmm
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that would be somewhat impossible for me to do
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: not that into guys? 
<imbrandon> ajmitch, impossible or "not right" ;)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: hah, not at all
<ajmitch> imbrandon: well the only female in the office is married :P
<imbrandon> ;P
<Burgundavia> the ubuntu community accepts "flexibility" in these cases :)
* ajmitch doesn't
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Burgundavia> boring
<ajmitch> I know, isn't it great? 
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm at a uni, there's tons of people everywhere
<LaserJock> but I've been married 5 years, it'd be too much work ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> one woman is plenty for me
* TheMuso doesn't particularly care about having a partner. 
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> 1+Ubuntu
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> Gah, try 4 ;-P
<ajmitch> ah, child processes
<bddebian> Yep :)
<LaserJock> "kill -9" doh! 
<LaserJock> bad analogy
<ajmitch> quite bad
<bddebian> More like "renice" ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: good luck making them nicer
<imbrandon> nah just put them to  "sleep"
<bddebian> Heh, yeah or sometimes "shutdown --please now" ;-P
<fernando> this week I spoke to a "sysadmin" to use wipe -rfs / to fix the permissions hehehe it twirled in a production server =( he was dismissed
<imbrandon> not cool
<fernando> yes, is really not cool
* ajmitch doesn't often screw up production servers
<ajmitch> only 2 or 3 times a week ;)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: lol
<ajmitch> well, there was a small dns hiccup the other day, for a few minutes
<fernando> somebody is working in gkvm package? 
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe
<ajmitch> apart from that, it's generally just minor data screwups which can be restored quickly, when we have to delve into the db
<ajmitch> things that they generally don't notice at all
<ajmitch> of course that's while they're expecting stuff to be a bit funny, so it's all ok :)
* ajmitch has to be in the office tomorrow morning (saturday) for a big code update though
<TheMuso> fun
<ajmitch> oh yes
<fernando> nobody is working in gkvm package? 
* ajmitch doesn't know what gkvm is
<ajmitch> I presume a frontend for kvm? 
<fernando> KVM (for Kernel-based Virtual Machine)
<fernando> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> go ahead & work on it, but it's unlikely to get into feisty at this late stage
* fernando working
<imbrandon> dear lazy irc, is apache 2.2 merged into feisty ? 
<ajmitch> of course
<imbrandon> 'good
<imbrandon> last i checked it hadent been
<ajmitch> ii  apache2                           2.2.3-3.2build1                   Next generation, scalable, extendable web server
<ajmitch> has been for a long time
<jdong> imbrandon: with that time you could just ! info apache2 feisty
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> jdong, shush
<imbrandon> i could have checked lp or p.u.c too 
<imbrandon> ;)
<jdong> but dear lazy IRC letters are more fun for us :)
* LaserJock starts dreaming about the 2nd Golden Pony Awards
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> uh oh
* ajmitch had best hide
* imbrandon wonders who will get them this time ;)
<LaserJock> apparently I've killed the conversation in #launchpad
<ajmitch> with your talk of witches
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> might as well move on to -motu
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> it's irrefutable logic though
<LaserJock> I think sabdfl must have been offended by my newt comment ;-)
<ajmitch> that witches burn, and so does wood
<ajmitch> wood floats, and so do ducks
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ? 
<ajmitch> so if you weigh the same as a duck you're a witch
<LaserJock> LaserJock: I swear, sabdfl turned me into a newt! 
<LaserJock> I was going to go with a green camelion
<bddebian> Who art thou that art so wise in the ways of science? 
<jdong> yay splash isn't weird color anymore. 
<LaserJock> or however you spell them
<jdong> chameleon? 
<LaserJock> but I thought the suse inuendo might not fly so well
<LaserJock> so I kept with the newt ;-)
<jdong> innuendo? 
<LaserJock> that sabdfl was turning me into a gree chameleon
<LaserJock> whatever
<jdong> green? 
<LaserJock> yes
<jdong> I love you too. 
<jdong> I can read your mind.  you want to strangle me :)
<LaserJock> strangle yes
<LaserJock> for reading my mind no
<LaserJock> :p
<LaserJock> jdong confuses me with weird hardware type things
<LaserJock> I've never reconfigured my filesystem
<ajmitch> fun, random violence
<jdong> ha, filesystems are now permanently associated with violence :)
<jdong> hmm, strangle+weird+filesystem=violence... :)
<LaserJock> well, earlier in the day #edubuntu was going to rebrand Edubuntu
<imbrandon> only in your mind jdong , only in your mind
<LaserJock> Edubuntu: Linux for Idol Fans
<LaserJock> well, at least I didn't say reiserfs ;-)
<imbrandon> reicerfs? 
<imbrandon> ricerfs*
<jdong> LaserJock: that's probably what tripped off reiser when he came home from work
* jdong ducks
<LaserJock> no doubt
<LaserJock> probably caught a certain somebody running ext3
<jdong> "Hi honey, I installed RHEL4 with ext3"
* LaserJock is a naughty boy
<LaserJock> anyway...
<jdong> back on topic :)
<LaserJock> we had a topic? 
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<LaserJock> python
<ajmitch> MOTU stuff
<ajmitch> or witches
<LaserJock> bah, who need MOTU stuff
<LaserJock> we stink anyway, right? 
* bddebian does
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if apache2.2 can be backported without recompiling a ton of other things ( like php and mod_* )
* LaserJock picks up is Golden Pony for King of the Demotivators
<LaserJock> *his
<jdong> imbrandon: I was watching office, and I felt my heart stop for a moment.  then I looked back on this window. 
<imbrandon> jdong, that sentance mand -0- sense to me
<LaserJock> too random
<imbrandon> made*
* LaserJock beats jdong over the head
<jdong> imbrandon: it's midnight.  my wise cracks stop working after... well they never work.  But it was related to the backporting the entire apache2.2 remark. 
<LaserJock> maybe that will jiggle the dip switches in the right place
<jdong> LaserJock: stop jiggling my dip switch! 
<TheMuso> hmmm.  Now why did Bitlbee die? 
<LaserJock> we burned it
<LaserJock> more witches! 
<imbrandon> with beryl ( for console )
<TheMuso> lol
<LaserJock> maybe I should be getting more than 4hrs of sleep at night o.O
<ajmitch> I think so...
<jdong> lol, console beryl
<jdong> we should have an libaa output for Xorg :)
<LaserJock> I've been on IRC for roughly 16hrs today
<ajmitch> imbrandon: all apache modules would need rebuilt
<imbrandon> ajmitch, so does apache2.2 require that mod_* be recompiled as well ? 
<LaserJock> bummer
<imbrandon> nasty
<LaserJock> that would be nice to have
* imbrandon counts the apache modules
<ajmitch> it's not a small upgrade
<jdong> that's what...
<ajmitch> which is why it took awhile to get
<LaserJock> course I'd go for apache 2 at all on my server
<Ubugtu> Apache bug 2 in Layout "Just testing the Boogzeela setup for log4j" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2
<jdong> I should stop watching Office... bad influence
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> I didn't know ubugtu knew about apache's BTS
<imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$ apt-cache search mod|grep apache|wc -l
<imbrandon> 149
<imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$    
<imbrandon> ouch
<LaserJock> but does that count both apache and apache2? 
<imbrandon> imbrandon@aurora:~$ apt-cache search mod|grep apache2|wc -l
<imbrandon> 58
<jdong> apt-cache search libapache2 is probably better. 
* Lathiat laughs @ Ubugtu 
<Lathiat> i love apache 2
<Ubugtu> Apache bug 2 in Layout "Just testing the Boogzeela setup for log4j" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2
<Lathiat> heh
<jdong> LaserJock: try saying mandriva 2007
<Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<jdong> or redhat 9
<Ubugtu> Red Hat bug 9 in bugzilla "Wrong URL for changing password" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9
<Lathiat> ubuntu 704
<Lathiat> ;p
<Lathiat> pff
<Lathiat> launchpad 704
<LaserJock> lol
<imbrandon> malone 704
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 704 in launchpad "Default value for "Arch branch" on +sourceadmin should be "MAIN", not "main"." [ Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/704
<jdong> lp 704
<jdong> heh
<jdong> irony... our product is the hardest one to trip. 
<LaserJock> <waving magic hands> #704 ? 
<imbrandon> no its not, bug 704
<imbrandon> no its not, bug #704
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> LMAO
<imbrandon> never mind
<Lathiat> 12:55 [freenode]  -Ubugtu(n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu)- Error: Could not parse  XML returned by Ubuntu: unbound prefix: line 28, column 8
* jdong still thinks bug 666 is quite a coincidence. 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 666 in malone "can't file a bug on Ubuntu" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/666
<Lathiat> i think i broke it
<Lathiat> ;p
<jdong> kinda the doomsday scenario
<LaserJock> <abracadabra> bug #704
<Lathiat> haha yeh i remember seeing that
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 704 in launchpad "Default value for "Arch branch" on +sourceadmin should be "MAIN", not "main"." [ Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/704
<Lathiat> bug 31337
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 31337 in gs-esp "ESP Ghostscript 815.01: Unrecoverable error" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31337
<Lathiat> bug 1337
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1337 in malone "Distro release tasks should include name of distro" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337
<imbrandon> ok ok ok , nuf 
<TheMuso> lol
<jdong> that's what....
* jdong ducks
<ajmitch> TheMuso: convince me that drupal 5.1 is a good thing
<Lathiat> ok i'll stop talking about redhat 9, mandriva 2007 and apache 2 ? :) 
<LaserJock> somebody *cough*falcon guy*cough*  is going to ban us for abusing his bots
<Ubugtu> Red Hat bug 9 in bugzilla "Wrong URL for changing password" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9
<Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<Ubugtu> Apache bug 2 in Layout "Just testing the Boogzeela setup for log4j" [Normal,Closed: fixed]  http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2
<Lathiat> err, heh
<jdong> lol
<Lathiat> didnt expect it to do that
* Lathiat zips his mouth
<TheMuso> ROFL
<jdong> gotta cross-link bugs... put like bug N inside a bug description :)
<Lathiat> it probably doesnt listen to itself
<TheMuso> jdong: LMAO
<Lathiat> but that couldbe amusing
<Lathiat> maybe if there were 2 bots
<jdong> you mean ubotu and Ubugtu? 
<LaserJock> Bot Wars!!! 
<jdong> but I think they ignore each other
<Lathiat> and you could get 1 to say "bug 2" that made it read out a bug that said somethign that triggered it to say "bug 2" again
<jdong> gotta bring in a nother bot
<jdong> and Lathiat, stop tripping bugs! 
<jdong> I'm surprised you didn't trigger it. 
<Lathiat> bug X doesn't seem to trigger it
<jdong> umm, yes it does. 
<Lathiat> well it didnt then
<LaserJock> darn it, who spiked the IRC server? 
<jdong> you got lucky
<Lathiat> mayeb there is no bug 2
<ajmitch> TheMuso: anything? :) 
<jdong> you killed the bug. 
<Lathiat> i picked a convenient number apparently, no bug 2 ;p
* imbrandon heads to work
<jdong> Lathiat: there is a bug 2
<jdong> heh
<jdong> nvm
<Lathiat> not in launchpad
<jdong> Forced audio codec: mad
<jdong> *snicker*
<jdong> never saw that before :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: There is the support stuff I noted in the UVF.  Drupal is also an easy CMS to use and administer, and 5/5.1 makes that a lot easier, with better administration UI, more fine graned access control, supports two different database backends, both pgsql and mysql, and is easily extendable with a modules API that is quick to pick up and make use of. 
<poningru> Burgundavia: there is a guy in #ubuntu-us who wants to talk to you
<TheMuso> I am biast of course. :) 
<poningru> Burgundavia: funnylookinghat or something
<TheMuso> Drupal can also run multiple sites of a single codebase. 
<TheMuso> s/of/from/
<ajmitch> TheMuso: right, but why 5.1 instead of 4.7? 
<ajmitch> is 4.7 support going to be dropped? 
<imbrandon> i run 5.1 on ubuntuwire.com , very very nice admin interface
<imbrandon> ok off to work, bbiab
<ajmitch> we generally don't bother with supporting universe stuff for 18 months either
<LaserJock> are you talking about a UVFe for 5.1? 
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> bug 91852
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 91852 in drupal "UVF request: Update to drupal 5.1." [ Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91852
<ajmitch> ah, Ubugtu hasn't died from the abuse yet
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Once a newer version of drupal comes out, 4.7 will sease to be supported
<LaserJock> I personally think it'd be awesome to have 5.1
<ajmitch> so once 5.2 is out, 4.7 will be dropped? 
* TheMuso solved bitlbee problem. 
<LaserJock> I read fairly often about "distro X is way outdated, just install from source", it'd be nice if we can at least *try* to get close
<TheMuso> 5.2 will be a security release.  The next one is 6 afaik
<ajmitch> LaserJock: right, I'm just trying to see why it'd be justified :)
<TheMuso> I'm willing to keep up with security fixes, as I use it, and follow its development. 
<ajmitch> from what it sounds like, it's a big update, but there are enough drupal-using MOTUs to chase up bugs
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I'll +1 it then
<LaserJock> after all, ubuntu.com is now drupal ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Indeed. 
<TheMuso> What better than to give them a maintained package to use, rather than them have to keep it updated. :) 
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I wonder how much they patch it? 
<imbrandon> very little
<imbrandon> err i doubt any ;)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: If you need a hand with drupal, feel free to give me a yell. 
<imbrandon> *did i say that out loud*
* ajmitch wonders if we've turned down a UVFe request yet
* TheMuso has already ported a couple of modules from 4.7 to 5. 
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> TheMuso, okies, i'm pretty decient with drupal and wp, i hack them alot ;)
<imbrandon> but thanks
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I can give you some silly ones if you need some to reject
<jdong> ajmitch: you came close :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: We could even write a module to integrate with checking status of build machines. 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yup, already on it ( via nagios and drupal )
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> Cool. 
<jdong> ajmitch: but I think in the end we're all sensible enough not to UVFe things too absurd :)
<imbrandon> even things like disk space etc ;)
<TheMuso> whats nagios
<LaserJock> man, now you guys make feel bad about removing drupal from my site :/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's ok, I use plone
<imbrandon> web/cron/server based server monitoring software
<TheMuso> LaserJock: You should. : S
<TheMuso> Nice. 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yikes! 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, apt-cache show nagios2
<imbrandon> ;)
<jdong> TheMuso: it's a delectable Mexican dish, consisting of tortilla chips and melted cheese
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm not going there, I don't think
<fernando> hehheeh
<jdong> oh wait
<fernando> apt-get install zabbix :P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: unless you want something a bit more complex, plone isn't for you
<jdong> whatever happened to libmail-audit-perl? 
<ajmitch> plone is insanely extensible & quite complex at times
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I hope that form on the jabber/email page is using forms api. :) 
<jdong> it disappeared in feisty
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I looked at the website once and got scared off
<jdong> and apt-cache search christ on a stick doesn't work anymore
<imbrandon> TheMuso, no , i will update it sometime, its just the exact code i hade before pasted 
<TheMuso> Yeah fair enough. 
<TheMuso> I figured as much. 
<tritium> apt-cache search offend christians, jdong 
<LaserJock> argg, I gotta get some real coding done :/
<LaserJock> tritium! 
<tritium> Hey LaserJock :)
<ajmitch> tritium!!! 
<jdong> tritium: sorry if anyone was offended :)
<tritium> ajmitch!! 
<tritium> jdong: I'm not
<LaserJock> he's alive! 
<jdong> tritium: FYI it's been a selling point of Debian/Ubuntu on one occasion. 
<tritium> jdong: :)
<ajmitch> jdong: doesn't make it less offensive
<jdong> tritium: I went "apt-cache search christ on a stick" and it matched a package, and the guy popped off FC6 the next day :)
<tritium> How are you all? 
<ajmitch> tritium: good, how are you? 
<tritium> Not bad, thanks.   I think I have a broken nose.   I'll find out tomorrow. 
<jdong> how can you be not sure of that? 
* LaserJock tries apt-cache search jdong on a spit
<tritium> it hurts like hell, but I can't tell.   It's still straight
<jdong> LaserJock: if my name is in apt, I'd love myself again. 
<jdong> (that's what....)
<ajmitch> tritium: how did you do that? 
<LaserJock> tritium: did one of the aliens for LANL come over and beat you up? 
<tritium> ajmitch: my dog is easily excitable.   I was petting her, and she jerked her head up and rammed her thick skull against my nose
<ajmitch> haha
<LaserJock> ouch
<ajmitch> ouch
<tritium> LaserJock: no, today it was from LLNL
<TheMuso> youch
<LaserJock> tritium: I bet, those guys are kinda scary sometimes
<tritium> heh, yeah.   What's new around here? 
<LaserJock> ummm
<LaserJock> working on Feisty *cough*yeah right*cough*
<LaserJock> lots of bugs left
<ajmitch> tritium: not much, motu council perhaps
<ajmitch> though you know about all that already
<tritium> I do. 
<ajmitch> we're just slogging through, very slowly
<LaserJock> Beta Freeze was today
<tritium> I got my email from gpocentek.   Hopefully we'll chat soon. 
<ajmitch> going to have time for MOTU? 
<ajmitch> we'd like to make it easy for people that don't have 10 hours a day like LaserJock 
<tritium> I told him I'd very much like to, and that would be great if I could be assigned little tasks to keep me involved. 
<bddebian> hmm
<LaserJock> ajmitch: 10? 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, 16+
<LaserJock> that's better ;-)
<LaserJock> tritium: we are working on some Launchpad tags
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> like bitsize, packaging, etc. 
<LaserJock> to categorize bugs
<tritium> LaserJock: yeah? 
<LaserJock> might make it a bit easier
<tritium> Very good. 
<LaserJock> I think we'd also like to make sure our policy documentation is good enough that people that step out for a while aren't completely confused
<LaserJock> I know that's been a struggle for a lot of people
<LaserJock> you take a vacation for a week and all the procedures have changed
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I remember a couple of times last year when I was out of the loop for a bit, when I came back, ti took me quite a while to get back up to speed. 
<LaserJock> or so they tell me ;-)
<LaserJock> maybe I'll take a vacation just to see how it is
<tritium> It'll take me some time to get back up to speed, I'm sure. 
* ajmitch should take a vacation
<ajmitch> maybe for all of feisty+1
<bddebian> noooo
<ajmitch> bddebian: ? 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, that's sounds good
<bddebian> ajmitch: You aren't allowed :-)
<LaserJock> it's not like we'd be missed
<LaserJock> not like if bddebian disappeared
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I might actually be interested in ubuntu after the 6 months are up
<bddebian> LaserJock: pfft, you wouldn't even know I was gone :)
<LaserJock> sure I would
<TheMuso> My interest in Ubuntu will never die!! 
<tritium> bddebian: I knew when you were gone for a bit last time for sure
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I'm glad
<ajmitch> TheMuso: for that you get a gold star & the madate to fix up universe
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah
<TheMuso> Short of being force not to work on open source projects, I will hang around here until something life changing comse my way that makes me go elsewhere. 
<ajmitch> s/madate/mandate/
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm doing the best I can. 
<bddebian> TheMuso: Never say never.   Notice my nick ;-)
<tritium> Will any of you be up in Portland? 
<LaserJock> I don't think I will :(
<TheMuso> bddebian: Dam right. 
<LaserJock> even though I'm the closest I thnk
<ajmitch> tritium: nope, I'm not going to any conferences or summits
<LaserJock> I think I'll go to Spain
<tritium> ajmitch: darn, I missed you in San Francisco, too
<bddebian> Nothing but Granola Eatin' Tree Huggin' Bunny Lovers in Portland, what the hell would you want to go there for? 
* bddebian hides
<LaserJock> bddebian: I have an uncle and aunt there
<bddebian> LaserJock: I used to go to Portland (well Beaverton) all the time for Nike :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: you're assesement isn't that far from the truth ;-)
<tritium> bddebian: I lived in Seattle for 2 years.   I liked it up there. 
<tritium> I even liked my friends from Microsoft ;)
<LaserJock> I want rain! 
<bddebian> It's pretty
<LaserJock> I'm tired of stupid desert
<tritium> hey, now, LaserJock
<LaserJock> oh, that's right
<LaserJock> gotta go hang with tritium down in the "beautiful New Mexico desert"
<bddebian> LaserJock: Come to PA, I need a mentor closer by :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<tritium> LaserJock: :)
<tritium> Are we forming a mentorship program?   I could use a mentor...
<ajmitch> sure
<tritium> Especially if I try to stay active. 
<tritium> woohoo, where do I sign up? 
* ajmitch probably shouldn't be a mentor
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors
* ajmitch edits page
<bddebian> ajmitch: You're supposed to be mine damnit! :-) 
<ajmitch> bddebian: you don't need it
<tritium> Ah, that's awesome. 
<ajmitch> ok, I'm off the lsit
<bddebian> I don't?   Since when? :) 
* ajmitch cannot type
<LaserJock> bddebian: no you don't, you should *be* a mentor
<bddebian> I'm on the list but everytime I reply to someone, they never come back :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: noone's been brave enough to ask me
<ajmitch> so there's no point me being on the list
<tritium> ajmitch: you've already informally mentored me
<bddebian> ajmitch: I asked you but you won't have me :'-(
<tritium> Ah, it seems like yesterday, but I think it was years ago by now. 
<ajmitch> tritium: I'm ok with informal help
<ajmitch> I just don't want to discourage any new people :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: because you don't need it
* bddebian doesn't buy it
<ajmitch> there's nothing I can teach you
* bddebian 's head explodes watching Glenn Beck
* ajmitch walks off home
<bddebian> Later man
<tritium> See you, ajmitch 
<LaserJock> phew
<LaserJock> replied to 4 Mentor requests
<LaserJock> I forgot I had them in my mailbox
<tritium> LaserJock: you have lots of mentees now? 
<LaserJock> heh, we'll see
<LaserJock> as of right now I don't have any
* TheMuso ponders adding his name. 
<LaserJock> I was just responding to inital emails
<tritium> I see. 
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if they are still interested though
<LaserJock> generally the mentorees are really really new
<LaserJock> and get scared off pretty easily
<bddebian> Yeah :-(
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Really? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I've gotten a few "I just installed Ubuntu today and it's great.  How do I develop for Linux?" 
<tritium> :)
<TheMuso> right
<bddebian> Heh, I still wonder how I actually got accepted to this group :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: and I wonder how long it'll take before you realize you belong in this group
<bddebian> LaserJock: Probably never :_)
<LaserJock> ok, guys it's 10pm and time for me to get home
<bddebian> Gnight man
<tritium> Good night, Laser_away 
<ajmitch> ok, home now
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I thought you walk to/from work. 
<TheMuso> That seems awefully quick. 
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I do
<ajmitch> < 10 minutes
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> That must really be quite convenient. 
<ajmitch> quite :)
<ajmitch> 10 minutes in the other direction to uni
<bddebian> Ah well 1am, time for bed for this old man.. What a way to spend a b-day :'-(
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<tritium> Good night, bddebian 
<bddebian> Take care tritium :-)
* TheMuso wonders how many packages in debian/ubuntu have patches against source in the .diff.gz. 
<TheMuso> as in, not as separate patch files. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Who knows... It's a big mess out there in the archive. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Very likely. 
<imbrandon> re
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon. 
<imbrandon> ello
<ajmitch> wb imbrandon 
<TheMuso> Is it imperative that a changelog entry states that the maintainer field has been changed? 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It's generally regarded as good practise to list all changes, but it's probably not imperative. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Aware of the former, didn't think the latter was the case.  Thanks. 
<Laser_away> I think if you're going to bother to change it and do a changelog entry you might as well
<TheMuso> I personally would, but I'm just wondering whether I should pull a hopeful up on it, and get them to redo their patch to add it. 
<Laser_away> oh, I'd probably do it myself and let them know
<Laser_away> no need to hold up progress
<rourke> in default dapper and edgy, freetype's "without_bytecode_interpreter" variable is set to 0 or 1? 
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee! 
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso! 
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: How goes it? 
<ajmitch> hey TheHobbsee
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i escaped from electronics tute
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Howd you manage that? 
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: not sure
<rourke> in default dapper and edgy, freetype's "without_bytecode_interpreter" variable is set to 0 or 1? 
<Hobbsee> rourke: sounds like a #ubuntu type of question - and a very specific one, so you probably wont get an answer
<rourke> Hobbsee: thanks
<rourke> Hobbsee: i'll try in #ubuntu-devel too
<Hobbsee> rourke: it wont help
* imbrandon yawns
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
* Hobbsee --> out
* Fujitsu destroys the fora. 
* Hobbsee destroys Fujitsu 
* Fujitsu is rightly destroyed. 
* Hobbsee prints ~40 pages out on the uni printer...
* Hobbsee loves comp/maths/phys/ uni printing quota....
<Hobbsee> seems to be >50 pages per week
* Fujitsu wonders why the `developers are not active here' bit isn't in in 72pt bold, red font. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: because it doesnt matter what size it is, people still ignore it, and think that if they try hard enough, a developer will see their thread. 
<Fujitsu> The "this is not a freaking bugtracker, idiots" bit could also do with enlarging. 
* Fujitsu stops breaching the CoC.
* Lathiat grins at Fujitsu 
<Hobbsee> *and* a stapler - wow! 
<Hobbsee> :D
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hehe, yes.   but people dont read
<rourke> will feisty include selinux? 
<tepsipakki> yes, but not on by default
<tepsipakki> it has been there for a long time, btw..
<tepsipakki> and -> #ubuntu
<ajmitch> not in any sense of being able to use it properly
<Uatschitchun> Hi all! 
<rourke> ajmitch: why not being able to use it properly?  what's wrong with it
<rourke> tepsipakki: will it ever be a default?  if not, will anything similar be default in ubuntu? 
<Uatschitchun> TheMuso: 'R you available? 
<tepsipakki> rourke: I think Debian needs to do it first
<StevenK> Why would that be the case? 
<imbrandon> why would debian need to do it first ( or at all )
<tepsipakki> just guessing
<Uatschitchun> StevenK: Remember my problem with not showing menu-item yesterday? 
<Uatschitchun> StevenK: Got the solution and wanted to let you knoe ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: because there are a number of packages to be touched, and policy to be fixed
<tepsipakki> yes, it would make the delta bigger
<imbrandon> ajmitch, dosent mean we couldent do it we wanted and posh back ( ala upstart )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sure, find someone who'll actually do it
<imbrandon> ;)
<tepsipakki> heh
<ajmitch> it's been on my TODO list for so long
<ajmitch> was discussed at UDS, etc
<StevenK> Uatschitchun: Oh nice, what was it? 
<tepsipakki> and then we could forget apparmor for good :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea 
<imbrandon> i dont bother with it no see a need to on a non-server system imho , but thats a nother war like emacs vs vim vs nano
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> s/no/nor/
<StevenK> imbrandon: Non-server machines don't need to be secured, hrm? 
<imbrandon> non server machines normaly only have one user
<Uatschitchun> StevenK: As I ship the desktop-file within the binary-indep package, which get's installed before the binary, the option 'TryExec' within desktop-file was wrong cause it looks for the called binary, which is installed after the indep package ... So all packages shipping desktop-files within indep-package may not have 'TryExec'! 
<StevenK> imbrandon: Which is an orthongal issue. 
<Uatschitchun> StevenK: As long as indep gets installed before binary )
<StevenK> orthogonal, even
<StevenK> Uatschitchun: Heh, tricky. 
<Uatschitchun> StevenK: Yeah .. did cost me hours to find ;(
<StevenK> imbrandon: Just because most desktop machines have only one user does not mean they aren't suitable for SELinux.  Desktop machines can and do get cracked as well. 
<imbrandon> i'm not saying they cant, i'm saying imho selinux ( and most anything past whats already in place most of the time + good practices ) is overkill
<imbrandon> just _my_ .000002c
<StevenK> imbrandon: Remind me of that after I gain root privledges on your desktop and blog your GPG private key. 
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i could have done that.   in fact, probably still can
<imbrandon> .........
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, nope , you cant
<imbrandon> ( and you never could with this key )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah yes, as the build machines dont have your private key on them, presumably
<imbrandon> um no
<imbrandon> that would be a tad ignorant
<imbrandon> seeing how 63+ people have root virtualy
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> yeah...
<StevenK> There's no virtual about it. 
<StevenK> They *have* root. 
<imbrandon> StevenK, yes but you know what i mean
<StevenK> Hrm, intrepid doesn't like my password.  Curious. 
<imbrandon> intrepid shouldent allow you to password login
<imbrandon> unless you rooted and changed it
<StevenK> I have a key, I can't sudo
<imbrandon> right
<StevenK> And if I was going to root intrepid, I would have changed two passwords, and they wouldn't be mine. 
<imbrandon> StevenK, is it not working ? 
<Hobbsee> StevenK: connecting via the right username? 
<imbrandon> StevenK, heh
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I have a shell. 
<Hobbsee> your point? 
<StevenK> imbrandon: For fifty points, which two would I change? 
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I wouldn't be able to connect if my username was wrong. 
<imbrandon> account 0 and no idea
<StevenK> imbrandon: Yours, so you couldn't fix it. 
<imbrandon> ahh /me would call ajmi*tch or sire*tart 
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> actualy no i would just reboot into single usermode and ....
<imbrandon> well lets just not do it
<StevenK> single user isn't enough
<StevenK> You'd also need init=/bin/sh
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ahh
<imbrandon> sure it is, it would drop me to a root shell
<imbrandon> well yea
<StevenK> single user runs sulogin, which requires a password. 
<imbrandon> assuming you only changed the pass
<imbrandon> single drops directly to a root shell , no password prompt
<siretart> always these fake hilights...
<StevenK> But the point is, sudo ought to work on intrepid. 
<siretart> morning folks, btw
* StevenK waves to siretart
<imbrandon> StevenK, sudo works, what are you trying ? 
<siretart> huhu StevenK 
<StevenK> imbrandon: sudo pbuilder-edgy login
<imbrandon> drop the sudo ( e.g. just "pbuilder-edgy login" )
<StevenK> Yes. 
<imbrandon> should work
<StevenK> I figured that out after I typed it here. 
<imbrandon> hehe ;)
<imbrandon> anyhow , brb , smokies time
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach. 
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<ajmitch> morning dholbach 
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> moins dholbach 
<dholbach> heya imbrandon
<pochu> morning all! 
<TheMuso> Heya pochu. 
<pochu> hi TheMuso :)
<pochu> TheMuso: ready for sponsor me? :) 
<pochu> Bug #90407
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 90407 in wesnoth "UVF exception: Wesnoth 1.2 -> 1.2.2" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90407
<TheMuso> pochu: Where can I get the .diff.gz/.dsc files? 
<pochu> TheMuso: oups, I forgot to attach them
<pochu> TheMuso: one minute! 
<TheMuso> Sure. 
<TheMuso> pochu: I'm downloading the source now. 
<TheMuso> the upstream tarball that is. 
<pochu> hehe :)
<pochu> it's really large, so I didn't attach it :)
<TheMuso> Good idea. 
<TheMuso> pochu: With new upstream versions, its often easier to just put the package files on some webspace if you have access to some, and point people to them from the bu. 
<TheMuso> bug
<TheMuso> Thats what I did in the past. 
<pochu> TheMuso: ah, ok :)
<TheMuso> IMO its just a bit quicker to get things together and done. 
<TheMuso> Note that this is only in the case where the upstream tarball changes. 
<TheMuso> If you don't want to, or don't have any webspace, thats fine. 
<pochu> TheMuso: isn't enough the debdiff? 
<pochu> dunno why, but none of my builts did a diff.gz
<StevenK> No .orig
<StevenK> Which means the build tools assume native. 
<TheMuso> pochu: The .orig.tar.gz file is different. 
<TheMuso> To the previous version. 
<TheMuso> As I was saying earlier. 
<pochu> ah, so should I put an especific command? 
<pochu> when building? 
<TheMuso> pochu: Make sure the new upstream tarball is included in the .dsc file. 
<pochu> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6839388/wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<TheMuso> pochu: Got it. 
<TheMuso> pochu: You haven't packaged it properly. 
<TheMuso> Look at the .dsc file. 
<pochu> TheMuso: I packaged it with 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot' and also in a pbuilder
<TheMuso> You should have an .orig.tar.gz, as well as a .diff.gz. 
<TheMuso> pochu: Hang on, let me look at the version in Ubuntu. 
<pochu> thanks :)
<pochu> teorically, the new diff.gz is the old diff.gz with the debdiff applied, isn't it? 
<TheMuso> pochu: Hang on, still downloading here. 
<TheMuso> another 4 minutes at least. 
<pochu> TheMuso: I have all the day ;)
<TheMuso> pochu: I know that. 
<TheMuso> pochu: Ok its downloaded, and its just unpacking.  I'll have a look. 
<pochu> TheMuso: ty very much! 
<TheMuso> pochu: Ok, do you have the version of wesnoth that is in Ubuntu there? 
<pochu> TheMuso: yep :)
<pochu> the debdiff is against it
<TheMuso> Ok.  Have a look at the dsc file associated with that version, wesnoth_1.2-1.dsc. 
<pochu> looking
<TheMuso> You will notice that it mentions two files.  The .diff.gz, and the .orig.tar.gz. 
<TheMuso> Now take a look at your .dsc file. 
<TheMuso> wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<pochu> yep, you're right :)
<TheMuso> You will notice that it only refers to one file, wesnoth_1.2.2-0ubuntu1.tar.gz
<TheMuso> There should be an .orig.tar.gz, and a .diff.gz. 
<pochu> but there isn't, so I've done something really bad :S
<sistpoty> hi folks
<pochu> heya sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> hi pochu
<siretart> huhu Stefan! 
<sistpoty> hi siretart
* pochu has to learn a lot yet :)
<TheMuso> pochu: What I would suggest, is to unpack the original source into a clean directory, and rezip it naming the file wesnoth_1.2.2.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty, siretart 
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you're up early! 
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch... definitely ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: he is supposed to finished his thesis ;)
<TheMuso> pochu: Then keep the wesnoth dir that you unpacked, and copy the debian dir from your original dir into that one. 
<TheMuso> Then try and build the source package. 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: my gf needs to get up early now, since university for her started... maybe I will adjust as well ;)
<pochu> TheMuso: gonna try :)
<ajmitch> good luck ;)
<sistpoty> oh, we don't have an agenda for MC meeting yet... should I add some points or will just start w.o.  an agenda? 
* TheMuso does not rellish uploading that fat tarball. : S
<ajmitch> sistpoty: oh we have *plenty* to talk about, it just needs added ;)
<dholbach> better to have a clear agenda
<dholbach> else the meeting will take even longer
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> and I'll have to drink even more
<ajmitch> we can't have that
<dholbach> ajmitch: it won't be that bad :)
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> haha
<imbrandon> i might be in an out , but i'll be arround ( i'm at work )
<imbrandon> ;)
* TheMuso is going to listen in. 
<dholbach> that sounds as if MC meetings were a radio program ;-)
<dholbach> although that'd be a great idea :)
<imbrandon> hehe for the vision impaired it kinda is a radio show ;)
<TheMuso> dholbach: Well I do literally listen to what is being written in the channel. :) 
<dholbach> "Hey Stefan, I think we have a call coming in from Australia, oh, it's Luke - let's listen what he has to say on the topic..." :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<TheMuso> hahahaha
<sistpoty> MC live on air ;)
<TheMuso> Has anybody thought of doing an Ubuntu podcast? 
<dholbach> there are some podcasts I believe
* TheMuso would, but he is planning to do another. 
<imbrandon> i have several times
* ajmitch has a face made for radio :)
<crimsun> Apologies, but my local Internet connection appears very unstable on the local end, so I'm going to drive over to the office.  Unfortunately this means I'll be ~20 mins tardy for MC.  
<ajmitch> crimsun: that's ok - I'm impressed by your dedication
<dholbach> crimsun: me too, you're a star
<ajmitch> especially given the time of day there
<sistpoty> if nobody objects, we can maybe start a little bit later?  then I'll enjoy morning sun with a coffee and a cigarette ;)
<TheMuso> Damn right. 
<imbrandon> brb in 5 , smoke break before the MC
<dholbach> sistpoty: take the laptop outside
<gpocentek> I will have to leave at 11H10 UTC
<sistpoty> dholbach: laptop cheater :P
<gpocentek> hello all BTW :)
<sistpoty> hi gpocentek
<ajmitch> hi gpocentek :)
<dholbach> hey gpocentek
<imbrandon> hey gpocentek 
<sistpoty> dholbach: don't have a laptop, at least none on which I can work right now ;)
<TheMuso> pochu: Hows it going? 
<pochu> TheMuso: attaching :)
<pochu> TheMuso: it worked ;)
<TheMuso> Right. 
<pochu> TheMuso: done :D
<TheMuso> Ok thanks. 
<pochu> thanks to you! 
<TheMuso> pochu: Just sorting out tarballs etc here, I'll be with you shortly. 
<pochu> ok, thank you :)
<TheMuso> pochu: Did you originally take the upstream source for the package from a .bz2 file?  If so, how did you retar it as a .orig.tar.gz file? 
* TheMuso needs to sort out why the md5sum is the way it is. 
<jussi01> hi motu's, sorry to disturb, can someone tell me if we have a guitar tuning program in the repos? 
<TheMuso> jussi01: You can use apt-cache search to have a look. 
<pochu> TheMuso: I unzipped it, and then zipped as tar.gz :)
<TheMuso> Ah ok. 
<jussi01> TheMuso, thanks, 
<siretart> to not clutter -meeting: the KDE4 case shows that we need something like PPA or even better, an ubuntu-experimental archive
<TheMuso> siretart: That has come up several times. 
<ajmitch> siretart: it's ok, the discussion is quite calm so far ;)
<TheMuso> pochu: The md5sum of my orig is different, but thats no real matter.  I just rebuilt the dsc, and am about to have a quick look and do a test build. 
<pochu> TheMuso: that's fine :)
<TheMuso> pochu: Test building. 
<pochu> :D
<pochu> TheMuso: I'm out for a bit, but I'll be back! :) 
<TheMuso> pochu: Sure. 
<fernando> moin all
<eXistenZ> I downloaded the source package of Kalcul and tried to rebuild it with pbuilder.  Can anyone help me with this error: http://rafb.net/p/qoAWS270.html . 
<shawarma> eXistenZ: Hehe.. Good one. 
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<TheMuso> Hey once again Hobbsee. 
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> heya TheMuso! 
<pochu> TheMuso: do u find everything alright? :) 
<TheMuso> pochu: Everything looks good, just doing one final quick check before I upload. 
<pochu> TheMuso: ok, thanks! 
<TheMuso> pochu: uploading...
<pochu> TheMuso: nice :)
<TheMuso> This is going to take a while. 
<pochu> hehe, sure :)
<pochu> good luck! 
<pochu> I hope your upload doesn't get corrupted ;)
<TheMuso> pochu: Thats that the .dsc file is for. 
<TheMuso> and .changes
<TheMuso> THey have md5sums in them./
<siretart> what happened with the idea to remove all binary packages with unmet deps close before release? 
<pochu> yep, I say because if it gets corrupted, you'll have to upload again, isn't it? 
<siretart> has there been any feedback from the archive admins? 
<TheMuso> pochu: yeah
<sistpoty> siretart: no, but I'll ping Mithrandir right now (again)... thanks for reminding me ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: k, thanks
* imbrandon hugs the universe
* ajmitch hugs *
* siretart hugs the council :)
* pochu hugs TheMuso :)
* ajmitch kicks LP for ignoring his email
<sistpoty> lol
<pochu> s/lol/love/ ;)
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: one issue I had with massfile is that I don't use gnupg-agent :)
* TheMuso hugs all active MOTUs. 
<ajmitch> so it wanted to repeatedly ask for a passphrase :)
<ajmitch> the other issue was that the mail went into the void
<dholbach> ajmitch: strange
<ajmitch> usually due to bad gpg sig
<sistpoty> siretart: see -devel for removals
* Hobbsee isnt hugged, as she's not really active at the moment
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yes you are. 
<TheMuso> You keep up activity overall. 
* ajmitch hugs Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: what, irc activity? 
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: MOTU activity. 
<TheMuso> Or general community activity then. 
<TheMuso> Basically I wasn't excluding you. 
* Hobbsee is starting to wonder if that actually does much, though
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you sound about as demotivated as too many people around here :P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i am.   very much so. 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: wonder why that is...
<Hobbsee> as in, why a lot of people are demotivated, not me specifically
<ajmitch> too much work, too little time? 
<TheMuso> At this point in time, I am very motivated to do Ubuntu related work. 
<ajmitch> see, not everyone is down :)
<sistpoty> At this point in time, I really need to go to uni and work on my these *g*
<Hobbsee> which is why i said a lot, not all
<jussi01> hehe, me too, Im just not that qualified..
* Hobbsee wonders if the non-MC people can still propose stuff
<sistpoty> thesis even
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: huh? 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: as in, propose ideas for the way MOTU works
<ajmitch> of course
<TheMuso> Motivation can't keep me awake however. 
* TheMuso decides to prepare for bed. 
<zakame> hmm konversation shows all dates in Sunday? 
<zakame> hmm bed, Ubuntu-related indeed :P
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: I'll update the charter of MC to reflect what was discussed during the meeting now.  Maybe you'll want to read the irc-logs (because you joined in after the discussion happened;)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: yes, that's why i said nothing much in the meeting
<Hobbsee> gah...what's with the original maintainer stuff?   what do i change it to again? 
<sistpoty> Mainter -> XSBC-Original-Maintainer (see DebianMaintainerField in the wiki)
* sistpoty always needs to look what to put for motu then
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: in summary - all decisions should be taken by MOTU as a whole, and the MC steps in if a decision isn't reached in a reasonable time
<zakame> hmm more policy, more structure
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off to uni now... later folks
<dholbach> see you sistpoty
<sistpoty> cya dholbach
<imbrandon> zakame, really the exact same, only the MC is taking the TB place for "tie breakers"
<imbrandon> in short , that is
* Hobbsee actually does an upload
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: nice. 
* ajmitch cheers
<Hobbsee> zakame: may make it better, or worse. 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're so cheerful tonight
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah.   some guy on crack came into work last night, tried to steal cigarettes, and my nose/mouth is *still* weird from it tonight.  
<ajmitch> uh...
<ajmitch> that's not good
<Hobbsee> no
<ajmitch> what happened? 
<TheMuso> eeew
<TheMuso> not good at all
<Hobbsee> well, it was thursday night trading, obviously.   the guy was leaning around the kiosk, trying to open the cupboards which are locked down, etc. 
<Hobbsee> should have got nice footage of him
<zakame> hmm I'm having flaky connection tonight
<ajmitch> why is your nose/mouth weird though? 
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: See MOTU/TODO on wiki for more bugs. 
<Hobbsee> dunno.   the stuff *stank* like crazy
<ajmitch> worrying
<TheMuso> pochu: There is only another 21MB or so to upload of the orig tarball. 
<TheMuso> Night folks. 
<ajmitch> night
* ajmitch sleeps
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch, TheMuso 
<Fujitsu> Night ajmitch, TheMuso. 
<zakame> gnuclient peeps
<zakame> er, g'night peeps
<proppy> hi ! 
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> hi proppy
<animimotus> hi
<animimotus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/edgy-backports/+bug/82543
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 82543 in edgy-backports "Please a backport Conky to Edgy ?" [ Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Hobbsee> animimotus: talk to jdong about it. 
<LaserJock> \o/
<animimotus> Hobbsee: since januar end I have ask to a half donzen persons :)
<Hobbsee> animimotus: well, we dont do the backports, jdong does. 
<animimotus> well, where can I found this ghost ?  :D
<Hobbsee> animimotus: he's on irc a lot of the time
<jussi01> animimotus, hes in class - try in a couple of hours
<animimotus> ok :)
<zakame> in a haunted house? 
<pochu> TheMuso: thanks!  and have sweet dreams :)
<DarkMageZ> animimotus, if you are feeling adventurious.  you could backport it yourself :P
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: not officially, though
<DarkMageZ> of course not offically
<animimotus> DarkMageZ: more edgy than aventurious in fact, it the reason a have chose Ubuntu :p
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: i think officially was the point
<jussi01> does any one need a tester for any projects?  
<jussi01> I need some more stuff to do...
<Hobbsee> jussi01: you could fix bugs! 
<LaserJock> jussi01: hehe, you might want to be careful about saying that in here ;-)
<DarkMageZ> jussi01, the rhythmbox guys are always happy to see a good backtrace done against svn. 
<animimotus> I'm loggued in launchpad but don't seen my profil account oO
<jussi01> hehe, Im not super experienced - just a little, and I would need a small guiding hand...
<jussi01> DarkMageZ, whats their channel? 
<DarkMageZ> jussi01, hmm.  it'd probably be worthwhile to see exactly where your testing skills are at. 
<DarkMageZ> jussi01, can you tell the difference between a completely useless backtrace and a potentially useful backtrace? 
<DarkMageZ> animimotus, if you want.  i could backport it for you. 
<shawarma> YAY!  Just booked my flight to Seville. 
<animimotus> DarkMageZ: I send a mail to jdont
<Hobbsee> shawarma: yay! 
<animimotus> DarkMageZ: however thx
<jussi01> DarkMageZ, sorry, was getting food...
<DarkMageZ> hmm, once my router stops being trippy from the torrent traffic... i'll see if i can pull the conky source from launchpad
<jussi01> DarkMageZ, Im sorry I think maybe I expressed my self wrong, I have been helping build stuff with pbuilder for ubuntustudio... that was what I meant... but I am happy to help/ learn to do other stuff
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Are you going? 
<Hobbsee> shawarma: yeah
<DarkMageZ> jussi01, oh.  that's cool.  you could probably try and find ways to make the ubuntustudio code crash.  get abusive to it :P
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Cool.  Are you paying for it yourself? 
<Hobbsee> shawarma: no.   sponsorship
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Oh, I didn't know they had been handed out yet. 
<Hobbsee> shawarma: they're being done differently this time - and very quietly
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Good to know, though.  I can't stop holding my breath. 
<shawarma> Not that I really was expecting it. 
<DarkMageZ> animimotus, if you want.  there's an unoffical conky package built from launchpad's sources against edgy x86 @ http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/conky_1.4.5-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<DarkMageZ> night all, 1am.  have fun. 
<LaserJock> ok, I need a quick user poll
<LaserJock> how many people can selectivly turn on the display of email headers in the client? 
<LaserJock> wow, don't all answer at once
<gnomefreak> i think TB can i never tried though.  I know i can view them but to set it im sure i can
<LaserJock> in TB I can do all headers or regular headers
<LaserJock> but I can find where to say "I want this header displayed"
<gnomefreak> yes that is it
<gnomefreak> all or regular
<LaserJock> *can't
<LaserJock> anybody know what evo and kmail do? 
<danohuiginn> LaserJock:kmail has options for all, none, and a set selection
<danohuiginn> don't think you can turn individual headers on/off
<danohuiginn> but the option might be hidden somewhere
<LaserJock> danohuiginn: ok, thanks
<LaserJock> evo?  anybody an evolution user? 
<shawarma> LaserJock: I can. 
<shawarma> Er.. with mutt, that is. 
<shawarma> Not evolution, but I seem to remember that Evolution does it too. 
<LaserJock> yeah, I knew mutt could (it can do anything)
<LaserJock> I'm having a debate with LP about telling people what package a bug is for in the bug email
<LaserJock> they say the X-Launchpad-Bug header should be sufficent context
<LaserJock> but I don't think many users can even see that header very easily
<danohuiginn> just checked evo, and it lets you display individual headers
<LaserJock> man, that's about the only positive thing I know about evo
<LaserJock> it ate my IMAP setup once and we haven't been friends since ;-)
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> all this fancy "bling"
<imbrandon> kmail will let you set filters on certain headers iirc, but you either see all or none iirc
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ^
* imbrandon is off to bed now
<gnomefreak> can anyone look at this build log and give me some sort of idea on what could be causing it?  its large paste because i wasnt sure where to start from http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/397496
<Adri2000> gnomefreak: maybe ask asac? ;) 
<gnomefreak> Adri2000: yeah i just sent him email about it hes haveing connection issues
<gnomefreak> thats why i asked in here :)
<Adri2000> ok
<eXistenZ> gnomefreak: What do you think of this error:  http://rafb.net/p/qoAWS270.html ? 
<gnomefreak> eXistenZ: maybe try autoconf 2.53 to be on safe side?  not real sure if (GNU Autoconf) is the same
<Laser_away> MC happened already, right? 
<gnomefreak> MC? 
<siretart> yepp, a few hours ago
<siretart> gnomefreak: motu council
<gnomefreak> ah
<lfittl> dholbach, ping
<dholbach> lfittl: pong
<Laser_away> oh man, I missed a lot at the meeting :(
<eXistenZ> gnomefreak: what autoconf do you use? 
<eXistenZ> gnomefreak: still there? 
<danirus> Hi, excuse me, I have a question about a bug I've fixed 
<Adri2000> danirus: ask
<danirus> excuse, I was at phone, but i'm here again
<danirus> I fix a bug, and I would like to know if I should look for someone to sponsor the package or not. 
<lfittl> danirus, which bug number? 
<danirus> I've subscribed Ubuntu Sponsors for universe
<danirus> 69701
* Toadstool waves
<danirus> I'd like to be involved in packaging, and maybe I can upload it
<gnomefreak> eXistenZ: yes im sort of here
* Ursinha waves back
<eXistenZ> gnomefreak: I cannot seem to find 2.53 on the repos
<lfittl> danirus, could you provide a patch that only contains the changes from the last ubuntu version, and not the whole .diff.gz? 
<lfittl> so, a patch that only contains your changes
<danirus> lfittl, yes, I'll do it
<lfittl> :)
<gnomefreak> eXistenZ: its most likely not in cache anymore.  are you sure you have all the build depends needed to build it?  you might have to search for it but the version you have installed should work but not sure what you are building/why you are building it/and what it needs to build
<eXistenZ> gnomefreak: I downloaded the source package of kalcul and tried to rebuild it with pbuilder
<eXistenZ> yes I have build dependencie
<eXistenZ> *dependencies
<gnomefreak> eXistenZ: does it build outside of pbuilder? 
<gnomefreak> eXistenZ: maybe thats what the this package is only built for CVS meant (or whatever it said)
* gnomefreak not looking at error atm
<Adri2000> bug 69701
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69701 in tktable "tktable installs faulty pkgIndex.tcl" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69701
<yotam> can I ask here a question about packaging? 
<_MMA_> yes
<yotam> The packaging guide describes how to create package   foo.deb  based on  foo_<ver>.tar.gz   But ...
<yotam> what if you want it to be dependent also on bar1_<ver>.tar.gz and bar2_<ver>.tar.gz  ??? 
<azeem> you'd have to aggregate the various tarballs into a new .orig.tar.gz and extract them during the package build
<yotam> Aha!   so the aggregation - is my own - and I should make my own version bumping of it ? 
<eXistenZ> yotam: meefo ata? 
<azeem> yotam: do bar1 and bar2 have different <ver>? 
<danohuiginn> Has anybody tried to make a list of packages missing .desktop files? 
<danohuiginn> It looks like it'd be pretty easy to automatically generate a list of packages which have /usr/share/menu but not /usr/share/applications in the file list (i.e. have debian menus but not gnome/kde menus)
<danohuiginn> would that be a useful thing to do? 
<jdong> slomo__: I found you an early christmas present: http://www.meebey.net/jaws/?gadget=Blog&action=SingleView&id=37
<jdong> you don't need to package it anymore :)
<slomo__> jdong: i know, i talked with him about it today
<jdong> slomo__: well.. that sucks.  now I have to find you a real present. 
<slomo__> :P
* jdong finds toasters on sale. 
<danirus> Hi lfittl, I left the patch in the bug report page
<danirus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tktable/+bug/69701
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69701 in tktable "tktable installs faulty pkgIndex.tcl" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<gnomefreak> is there a way to use apt-get build-dep to show the list of packages even if they are installed already
<lfittl> danirus, ok, and as I see it you want that updated in edgy, or would it be enough to update it in feisty? 
<Adri2000> to which email address does archive@u.c send the accepted mails?  preferred address in LP? 
<danirus> It would be better if we update it also in edgy
<danirus> I'm building other packages for our people and most of them are using edgy (I hope the will move to Feisty, but it will take time)
<danirus> lfittl, thanks for your support
<lfittl> danirus, ok, if you have tested the patch and the problem is now fixed, I can upload your fix to feisty, for edgy somebody with more knowledge of tcl should review it
<danirus> that's perfect
<danirus> yes, I've tested it and it works
<lfittl> danirus, ok, it seems like the package tktable got replaced with tktable2.9 in feisty, any chance you could test the version in feisty if it works for you? 
<danirus> yes, 1 minute and I confirm you
<danirus> lfittl, I've tested in feisty and edgy, and works Ok in both
<lfittl> wait, I thought the edgy version was broken and your patch fixes it? 
<lfittl> or do you mean, your version in edgy works, and ubuntu's version in feisty works as well? 
<danirus> yes
<danirus> that's it
<danirus> this morning I need tktable, I saw the problem, and I fixed it
<danirus> I would like to join some Ubuntu team
<lfittl> ok, then I won't upload this to edgy, and you should inform yourself about Stable Release Updates (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU), and then hope that somebody from the Ubuntu Universe Sponsors team finds time for the bug
<lfittl> best thing is to contact the team directly which you are interested in, or create one if such a team does not yet exist
<danirus> Ok lfittl, I'm glad to talk with you
<danirus> thanks for your support
<lfittl> no problem, thanks for your work :)
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs. 
<fernando> hey TheMuso 
<Q-FUNK> hey
<TheMuso> pochu: Wesnoth has not long completely finished building on all arches. 
<pochu> s/not/now/ ? 
<pochu> TheMuso: ^
<TheMuso> pochu: Yep you're right sorry. 
* TheMuso is still waking up/.
<pochu> TheMuso: ok, I was afraid :S
<pochu> hehe
<jussi01> hi all, can someone point me to a page describing .desktop files?  
* jussi01 wants to fix some "bite size" bugs...
<TheMuso> jussi01: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<jussi01> thanks
<TheMuso> np
<danohuiginn> jussi01: if you get bored, i'm currently making a list of the 100+ packages that are missing desktop files... ;)
<jussi01> danohuiginn, send the list over...
<jussi01> jussi01 @ gmail.com
<jussi01> when your done
<danohuiginn> jussi: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10678/ :D
<jussi01> thanks...:D
<danohuiginn> I'll put it somewhere more public once it gets through the alphabet
<danohuiginn> no, thank you! 
<jussi01> also if you can sen a copy over to my email if you dont mind...
<danohuiginn> sure, will do
<jussi01> just remeber to take out the spaces...
<LaserJock> danohuiginn: how are you determinaning that list? 
<danohuiginn> LaserJock: packages which have a debian menu entry, but no gnome menu entry
<danohuiginn> file list contains /usr/share/menu, but not /usr/share/applications
<Fujitsu> Note that there are menu entries for some CLI applications which really don't deserve .desktops. 
<danohuiginn> fair point, Fujitsu.  Is there a policy somewhere on what packages should have .desktops? 
<LaserJock> danohuiginn: ones that are useful as menu items ;-)
<danohuiginn> great :)
<geser> TheMuso: universe will have a hard freeze?  that's news to me
<TheMuso> geser: I remember reading that somewhere. 
<TheMuso> I must admit I haven't confirmed that, but anyway. 
<geser> I remember the opposite
<TheMuso> oh ok
<lupine_85> hi jdong
<jdong> oh hi lupine_85
<Fujitsu> I thought we were having one in the last week...
<lupine_85> I heard the updated xserver-xgl got in, so I didn't put it in the repo ;)
<geser> TheMuso: see my question at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/MOTU/20070122 around 9:38 / 9:39
<jdong> lupine_85: that's correct, xserver-xgl is all sorted out now :)
<jdong> lupine_85: congrats on Beryl 0.2.0 release
<lupine_85> thanks :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: GLad its not just me. 
<LaserJock> geser: heh, that looks strangly familar
<LaserJock> I think later on we might have decided to have the last week as a hard freeze
<LaserJock> but I can't remember when that came up
<geser> as long it's only the last week and not starting next week
<animimotus> jdong: John could you explain quickly how the conky package is now going to spread ? 
<animimotus> (if you have some secondes)
<jdong> animimotus: next time ubuntu-archive team processes backports queue, the package will be built and published within an hour. 
<Fujitsu>     *
<Fujitsu>       Proposal: during the last week of feisty cycle, require 1 ACK from an motu-uvf member prior to uploading source
<Fujitsu>       Decision: unanimous approval
<animimotus> ok, and then it will be sent to all mirrors? 
<Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meetings/2007-02-23
<TheMuso> RIghto.  I thought there was one, but thought it was sooner.  Never mind. 
<geser> Fujitsu: thanks for the pointer
<jdong> animimotus: correct
<LaserJock> wahoo
<LaserJock> kiko rocks
<TheMuso> LaserJock: ?? 
<LaserJock> I worked with him this morning
<LaserJock> and we're getting a footer and X- header to tell people why they are getting bug email
<TheMuso> Right. 
<Burgwork> does that mean we can sort by package name? 
<Burgwork> because currently it is hard
<LaserJock> well, it  depends
<LaserJock> if you are a bug contact for the package it'll show it
<LaserJock> so like the header will have X-Launchpad-Bug-Reason: Bug Contact (mozilla-firefox in ubuntu)
<LaserJock> and the footer will have a little note that you are getting the email because you are a bug contact for mozilla-firefox
<LaserJock> it'll also tell you if it's because you are subscribed to a dup of the bug
<TheMuso> Right
<TheMuso> Whats the lp link for the new queue again? 
* TheMuso keeps forgetting
<LaserJock> launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+new
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> +queue
<TheMuso> right
<LaserJock> do you guys think it'd be good to have the package name in the body of *every* bug email? 
<crimsun> s/package/source package/
<TheMuso> Yes actually. 
<TheMuso> I find myself having to open the bug just to have a look at times
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorry, yes
<LaserJock> TheMuso: what client do you use for email? 
<LaserJock> I was debating this with kiko this morning
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Mutt. 
<LaserJock> because he'd like to keep the bug body uncluttered and said that the X-Launchpad-Bug header should be sufficient
<TheMuso> Actually... Yes, I could work something from that. 
<LaserJock> but TBird and Kmail don't seem to be able to selectively show non-standard headers
<LaserJock> evo and mutt can
<TheMuso> yeah mutt certainly can. 
<LaserJock> mutt can do anything
<LaserJock> I wish TBird wasn't such and easy to use and portable app
<TheMuso> Except read receipts, which aren't standards compliant anyway. 
<LaserJock> because it surely stinks at some things
<TheMuso> afaik
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Same... I use it, but it is really lacking in some areas. 
<LaserJock> a Reply-To-List feature and header selectivity would make it much better for me
<Fujitsu> Proper GnuPG support would also be nice. 
<LaserJock> enigmail doesn't work well for you? 
<Fujitsu> It doesn't use the proper caching mechanisms, for one.  That's a little dangerous. 
<TheMuso> I have always noticed that email from tbird users with gpg has inline signing. 
<Fujitsu> Coredumps for Thunderbird are dangerous because of that. 
<TheMuso> signatures even
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: There's the option to do PGP/MIME too. 
<TheMuso> as opposed to attached signatures. 
<TheMuso> Ah ok. 
<Fujitsu> It's configurable. 
<TheMuso> Mutt does that by default afaik. 
<Fujitsu> I'd say it was better to avoid MIME unless it's absolutely necessary. 
<TheMuso> Although on one List I'm on, I have had to change that. :) 
<TheMuso> Why so? 
<TheMuso> The vast majority of people on Ubuntu lists seem to use it. 
<Fujitsu> It's extra bloat, and it makes reading messages through telnet to a POP3 server more difficult. 
<ajmitch> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch. 
<TheMuso> um ok
<Fujitsu> A corner case, perhaps :P
<LaserJock> https://beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.tag=motu
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I've seen that added to a couple of bugs I'm subscribed to.  Is good to see. 
<LaserJock> I also like to see In Progress and Fix Commited ;-)
<LaserJock> I especially like the anti-demotivator bug
<LaserJock> I kinda threw that one in there ;-)
<TheMuso> haha karma for uploads. 
* Fujitsu wonders where the timestamp on comments has gone. 
<LaserJock> can't let those translators and support tracker people get all the glory ;-)
<Fujitsu> I always found it a little odd that the people doing the actual main distribution work didn't get karma for it. 
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I wonder if it had anything to do with LP not tracking who actually uploaded
<TheMuso> Probably. 
<LaserJock> or maybe they plan on just using changelog entries
<LaserJock> I'm not sure who should get the karma
<TheMuso> Whenever I've looked at a source package info page for a version, it says who uploaded it, which is not entirely correct. 
<LaserJock> maybe it should be split if it was sponsored
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It says the name in the changelog, I'm sure. 
<TheMuso> i.e the changelog entry as LaserJock said. 
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> When is that not correct? 
<TheMuso> If someone else sponsored the upload. 
<jdong> Fujitsu: it shows whose name is in the changelog last....
<jdong> not who actually _uploaded_ it
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yes... That's normally correct. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You're not meant to change the changelog when sponsoring. 
<geser> LaserJock: you mean we should be able to catch up to Alan Pope (over 120k karma) :)
<LaserJock> there is a newish (I think) bug in soyuz about grabbing the uploader from the gpg
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I don't. 
<jdong> Fujitsu: if you sponsor one of my packages, it'll show as me uploading it
<Fujitsu> jdong: Exactly, that's right... You should be getting most of the karma for that. 
<jdong> same with all backports...
<Fujitsu> The signer should perhaps get a bit, but not as much as the name in the changelog. 
<LaserJock> right
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, but I think it'd be good to show who did the upload. 
<LaserJock> although sometimes sponsoring takes longer than the time the sponsoree took to make it
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: True, but there's no way to gauge that...
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's the reason we don't get karma or not
<geser> it would be good if LP could show the complete changelog and not only the changes of the last .changes file
<LaserJock> probably not because it should be easy to use th changelog
<LaserJock> geser: yeah, I've been thinking about that one
<Fujitsu> geser: It'd also be good if it showed it on the source package release package, not on the distrorelease page. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Indeed. 
<Fujitsu> Whoever put it there mustn't have been thinking at all. 
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I've talked with LP guys a little on that
<LaserJock> and they said something like "user" just wants to see what's changed in their version
<LaserJock> so they just want to see what's happend in Edgy for instance
<Fujitsu> Since when do users know how to navigate around LP?  The navigation there is pathetic, I doubt a normal user could find it. 
<LaserJock> well, that was the rationale
<geser> LaserJock: I've already filed a bug about it: bug #90846
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 90846 in soyuz "Please include the complete changelog on the <srcpkg>/+changelog page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90846
<LaserJock> but we should have lp.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/+changelog
<Fujitsu> That looks like that bug, LaserJock. 
<geser> bug #55795 and bug #48735 may be related to it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55795 in soyuz "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/55795
<TheMuso> bbs
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48735 in soyuz "changelog histories for packages are not viewable/searchable" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48735
<LaserJock> and maybe p.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/<version>/+changelog but I don't know if that's of much interest
<LaserJock> s/p.net/lp.net/
<LaserJock> geser thanks for those
<LaserJock> hmm
<Fujitsu> It'd be useful to be able to sort of expand a release in the list on /ubuntu/+source/<package> and see a changelog entry. 
<enyc> meep moop ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, that's an interesting idea
<enyc> lp.net ... like sf.net ...
<LaserJock> I generally find the +source pages to not be as helpful as they could be
<geser> I also find the additional step of selecting "All" on the build status page for the source package annoying.  The 5 archs don't take that much space that you would need filtering
<Fujitsu> Should #90846 have the motu tag? 
<LaserJock> geser: where do you see that?  can you give me an example? 
<geser> LaserJock: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xulrunner/+builds
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: give me a little bit to look these over
<LaserJock> geser: oh, it defaults to currently building
<geser> in most cases a package isn't "Currently building" when looking at that page
<LaserJock> which will basically be almost always empty
<Fujitsu> geser: Where's that linked from? 
<geser> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/xulrunner/ -> Show builds on the left pane
<Fujitsu> Ah. 
<enyc> hrrm I wish there were not so many packages that depend on versions they dont need to...  there have bene many itmes I have extrcacted a package and changed the  debian/control  and rebuilt the bin....  whon needing to install  a newer binary of something... where no actual patching is needed to 'backport' such package....
<Fujitsu> I was looking under the version
<Fujitsu> The navigation in these parts is really bad. 
<geser> I always need to switch to "All states" to get the info I need
<LaserJock> geser: do you know of a bug report on that? 
<Fujitsu> geser: You could always use the builds portlet on the <package>/<version>
<LaserJock> that's quite a bit more clicking if you just want the latest build I think
<Fujitsu> Not really. 
<Fujitsu> In fact, it's fewer. 
<jdong> enyc: usually those version numbers were put there to force a build in feisty against a newer library
<Fujitsu> Go the the package page, click on version.  Done. 
<Fujitsu> (and click on the portlet title if you haven't got the Greasemonkey script)
<geser> LaserJock: no, I haven't filed one yet
<jdong> enyc: for backports where that is the only modification, I think I can convince cjwatson/Mithrandir to upload a source-change backport
<enyc> jdong: hrrm build-dep or  compiled dependancy ?? 
<jdong> enyc: build-dep
<LaserJock> geser: I can do it if you don't want to
<enyc> jdong: right... but ive many times needed to change the binary-runtime-dependancies.....
<LaserJock> geser: otherwise just ping me with the bug  number
<jdong> enyc: like which packages? 
<enyc> jdong: e.g. to run an edgy binary package on dapper or whatever
<Fujitsu> enyc: You're meant to rebuild them to do that.  That's what backporting is. 
<jdong> you should not be running edgy binaries on anything but edgy
<jdong> you must rebuild its source package on the intended distribution. 
<enyc> jdong: hrrm thats very often not necessay in my experience...
<jdong> a binary runtime dependency is for real
<geser> LaserJock: filing now
<jdong> that's generated from scanning the binary. 
<Tonio_> siretart: ping ? 
<jdong> enyc: it's russian roulette when you do that.  it may work, it may crash, nobody knows. 
<jdong> but it's not supported in any way, and you're on your own. 
<siretart> Tonio_: pong
<enyc> jdong: that really depends if there is an ABI change or an actual requiremnet for newer lib or initscript-behaviour...
<enyc> hangon ... ill try to find an example...
<Tonio_> siretart: hi :) I'm pinging you concerning libxine
<enyc> not done this in a while ;-)
<jdong> enyc: for most packages there are subtle ABI changes that cause shlibdeps to identify a specific version. 
<Tonio_> siretart: there is a patch merged upstream for xcb support, which would fix our so old kaffeine crash with konqueror
<Tonio_> siretart: patch is a bit big but has been widelly tested upstream, is that too late to consider adding this ? 
<enyc> jdong: kk... now herees what iirc is see often...
<enyc> jdong: in 'prboom' feisty universe..      * [17] [dep]  [18] libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1)
<Fujitsu> enyc: We have a new libc6.  That's a fact of life. 
<enyc> jdong: normally looks to me like many packages seem to explicitly depends on the releveant distro's version of libc6.. not actualyl the version they need
<TheMuso> back
<Fujitsu> Running it on earlier version may work, but it may break horribly. 
<enyc> Fujitsu: sure... im just trying to understand where this comes from
<enyc> Fujitsu: well fine... but this dep seems not to actually specify the version needed normally... only "what version is in that distro"
<zorglu_> q. when doing a ./configure on ubuntu, is there a special --prefix to set, or to leave the default is fine ? 
<enyc> Fujitsu: ive newer understood why this situation is like this
<LaserJock> zorglu_: is that when you are trying to create an Ubuntu package? 
<TheMuso> zorglu_: You read the packaging guide? 
<zorglu_> LaserJock: somehow yes, installing a lighttpd 1.5 from source via checkinstall
<zorglu_> TheMuso: some time ago yes, do i remember it by heart, no :)
<enyc> Fujitsu: i.e. if this program actually needs libc6 at least 2.1 of libc6... then the dep might specify that.. but this seems to have explicitly the 'latest in feisty' libc6 version..
<LaserJock> zorglu_: if you are going to use zorglu_ then you don't need a special --prefix
<enyc> Fujitsu: do you undershand? 
<LaserJock> zorglu_: sorry that 2nd zorglu_ should be checkinstall ;-)
<zorglu_> LaserJock: ok thanks
<enyc> Is this dep some kind of autogenerated choice somewhere that defaults to explicitly requiring that latest ver.? 
<Fujitsu> enyc: The problem is that it's built against the new version.  There's nothing saying that libc6 in Edgy is forwards-compatible. 
<Tonio_> siretart: please forget this, looks like too late to change the seeds to get rid of kmplayer for kubuntu anyway.... we'll wait net dev cycle then :)
<Tonio_> siretart: sorry for boring you with this
<jdong_> enyc: build deps are generated by running shlibdeps as the last step of building the binary package
<zorglu_> LaserJock: for what it worth, the lighttpd 1.4 available on edgy got a serious bug on accept-range :)
<jdong_> enyc: the tool only  checks against the running system.  it doesn't have a comprehensive ABI analyzer for every version of Ubuntu and every revision of every library
<LaserJock> zorglu_: is the bug in Launchpad? 
<zorglu_> LaserJock: no idea, i can look
<LaserJock> zorglu_: that would be excellent
<zorglu_> LaserJock: but after i got 1.5 working, i spent the day on this :)
<jdong_> enyc: there's no good way of knowing if the package is binary-compatible with any other versions than specified, and dpkg errs on side of caution. 
<enyc> jdong_: I see.. so you end up with "conservative but often unneedly-restrictive dependancies" as far as I can see..
<enyc> jdong_: I see
<jdong_> enyc: that's the best solution given the scenarios. 
<enyc> jdong_: yes i see
<TheMuso> Its really not hard to build a package in a pbuilder for the distro release you want it for. 
<enyc> TheMuso: sure.. takes time though... but I can understand that point of view too ;-)
<jdong_> enyc: and speaking as a veteran Gentoo user who has source-compiled his entire system for several years... there is no good gauge of compatibility. 
<jdong_> enyc: sometimes you get really weird behavior in an application, and the shlibdeps still "check out" but rebuilding fixes it. 
<jdong_> (stale package from a library upgrade)
<TheMuso> I've seen slight upgrades to packages in gentoo that have required a reverse depends rebuild. 
<enyc> jdong_: bah!  gentoo hassle.. i remember problems with rebuilding libs... then needing to rebuild things to keep them working... big hassle sometimes..
<jdong_> TheMuso: and sometimes revdep-rebuild doesn't catch it either. 
<TheMuso> jdong_: Yeah., 
<jdong_> in fact, those are the MOST painful -- where revdep-rebuild doesn't detect it
<enyc> jdong_: seem to need to keep things uptodate often... which can cause problems... mistakes w/ etc-update...
<jdong_> which shows a fundamental flaw in using shlibdeps literally to assess dependencies
<enyc> jdong_: and then... problems if you dont kkep things uptodate
* TheMuso must look at the shlibdeps code at some point. 
<jdong_> enyc: aye, it's a "fun" experience but does teach a few lessons about binary compatibility, why rolling versions aren't always good, and so on. 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-17
<LaserJock> oh my goodness
<LaserJock> you should see the link I just got in my LUG email
<LaserJock> http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43
<jdong_> LaserJock: no those pills don't work
<enyc> jdong_: what do you mean "rolling versions" ?? 
<jdong_> enyc: the concept that there are no distro releases, and updated packages simply are made whenever new versions are available
<jdong_> enyc: so one "version" of the distro "rolls" onto the next. 
<jdong_> LaserJock: that is hilarious
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: ROFL
<Fujitsu> Hahahaha. 
<Fujitsu> That's pathetic. 
<enyc> jdong_: sure... I call that "continuois" vs "release based"
<jdong_> enyc: I've mostly heard continuous referred to as rolling version
* Fujitsu uses all these Windows services on Linux. 
<enyc> jdong_: I think there is real value in being able to re-install a particular "release" of system... and keep that release withing sensible support cycle
<Fujitsu> I don't know how I could live without them.  There's not a chance.  Ever. 
<jdong_> enyc: I totally agree.  Continuous distros are fun for the enthusiast and tweaker, but are too high-maintenance and risky for anything more serious
<Fujitsu> Gentoo servers are really annoying to maintain over the long term. 
<enyc> jdong_: i.e. you can actually say "it works on breezy but broken in dapper" rather than "well it did work on gentoo but it doesnt now" sort of thing...
<crimsun> I believe running xserver-xgl on gentoo for a samba server is the bestest thing evar. 
<jdong_> crimsun: depends on your CFLAGS 11!!11 USE -O99 ZOMGZ
<enyc> o well whatever
<crimsun> -fpony
<enyc> ;-) funny old world
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I inherited a couple of Gentoo servers that are PDCs for large clients, but without the Xgl bit :P
<crimsun> sorry, I'm being cynical [moreso than usual]  due to audio issues. 
<Fujitsu> What's the issue with audio today, crimsun? 
<geser> LaserJock: bug #92960
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92960 in soyuz ""Show builds" for source packages has a bad default" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92960
<TheMuso> gotta love bug reports that don't explicitly state that a package doesn't work, but only state that something can be made more portable with some code change, and a patch is attached. 
<crimsun> Toshibas and their broken-arse audio
<TheMuso> bug 69738
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69738 in xjdic "[PATCH]  Termio bug in xjdic client/standalone" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69738
<TheMuso> Now tell me that that report says the package doesn't work. 
<Fujitsu> It doesn't actually mention a bug. 
<Fujitsu> It just gives a fix. 
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah :(
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I know. 
<TheMuso> I marked it wishlist, and the bug reporter comes back and says the apckage doesn't work. 
<LaserJock> crimsun: somehow mine does seem better in Ubuntu than windows though
<TheMuso> and couldn't understand why I marked it as such. 
<crimsun> LaserJock: pony dust. 
<ajmitch> ZOMG ponies! 
<jdong_> crimsun: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74072
* ajmitch calms down
<Ubugtu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 74072 in Unspecified "ld errors" [Trivial,Resolved: wontfix]  
<jdong_> check out that guy's cflags
<Lamego> TheMuso, the description clear states that the code uses wrong indexes for Linux
<ajmitch> I really shouldn't be at work right now
<jdong_> that I think sums up Gentoo :)
<crimsun> seriously, people scoff at my ponies, but I'm telling ya that's what makes audio work on some machines
<LaserJock> crimsun: must be.  but in Windows after hibernation the audio doesn't work much of the time
<TheMuso> Lamego: But that doesn't state that its not working. 
<Lamego> by using wrong indexes you can figure it may not work as expected
<LaserJock> in linux it rarely doesn't come back
<jdong_> CFLAGS="-g0 -DTT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER -pipe -O3 -march=pentium4 -fweb -funswitch-loops -funroll-all-loops -funit-at-a-time -fsched2-use-traces -fsched2-use-superblocks -fsched-stalled-insns=12 -frename-registers -fprefetch-loop-arrays -fpeel-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -fmerge-all-constants -finline-limit=32768 -finline-functions -ffunction-sections -ffast-math -fdata-sections -fbranch-target-load-optimize2"
<jdong_> that's gotta set a record somewhere. 
<Fujitsu> O_O
<Fujitsu> I bet it gains like 0.004% or something. 
<Lamego> do you need a better description "using wrong indexes" on an array ?  Its a bug described from a developers point of view
<jdong_> Fujitsu: ten bucks it actually slows it down :)
<TheMuso> Lamego: Ok I understand now, but I feel that people like myself wouldn't fully understand that, as not all packagers are C coders. 
<TheMuso> so its easily missed. 
<Fujitsu> It also doesn't give the impact.  It just says it exists. 
<LaserJock> jdong_: that's looks  like one of my old gentoo CFLAGS ;-)
* TheMuso goes to work on it. 
<jdong_> LaserJock: lol was it fast? ;-) 
<LaserJock> how would I know
<LaserJock> I was always compiling
<jdong_> lol
<crimsun> those chemists.  Always ricing for the heck of it. 
* crimsun shakes his head
<Lamego> packages which are not C coders should not maintain C lang packages, should just package them :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<Lamego> erm, packagers
<LaserJock> crimsun: I only did silly stuff like that once
<TheMuso> If a package has patches against source in .diff.gz, do people still break out new fixes into patch files, or do they just include patches into the .diff.gz as previously done with the package? 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We may forgive you. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You shouldn't introduce a new patch system. 
<jdong_> anyone remember that funroll-loops.org site? 
<jdong_> http://web.archive.org/web/20060116052803/http://www.funroll-loops.org/
<jdong_> some really good quotes there :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right. 
<TheMuso> Lamego: In an ideal world, I would probably agree with you. 
<jdong_> "I essentially started using Gentoo because my ....ing KDE clock would never show the right time in Red Hat." 
<jdong_> yeah.....
<Lamego> upstream should fix bugs, packagers should fix packages :P
<LaserJock> Lamego: it's not always easy to tell the difference
<Fujitsu> Lamego: Unfortunately, upstream often doesn't fix bugs. 
<LaserJock> Lamego: and some times upstreams aren't very responsive
<LaserJock> just a fact of life with thousands of independent, mostly volunteer run, projects
<Lamego> LaserJock, sure it is, if the bug is not from the package building, its from the source
<Lamego> and developers and packagers do not have always share the same skills
<LaserJock> Lamego: but packaging is about building source
<Lamego> LaserJock, it is about building, not about fixing it :)
<LaserJock> sometimes we have to fix it to build it
<LaserJock> but for sure, if we do that we should send that upstream
<LaserJock> we try not to maintain fixes, just get them to users while upstream is working on them
<Lamego> such bugs are usually within the source building system, not on the package source :P
<Fujitsu> jdong_: The CXXFLAGS in that are even longer. 
<LaserJock> Lamego: hah, depends on the source
<LaserJock> well made source often needs little/no help
<jdong_> Fujitsu: yeah.  I'm really surprised anything compiled with those settings
<LaserJock> Lamego: hopefully the packager-author relationship is good and two-way
* TheMuso goes after the dogtail bug. 
<LaserJock> man
* crimsun dubs LaserJock to do alsa work
<crimsun> yay! 
<jdong_> LaserJock: You have just earned the jdong "Every Sentence Kills A Brain Cell" award
<LaserJock> I just gave my advisor a quote so we can drop $2400USD on a single app
<jdong_> (for that blog post)
<jdong_> :D
<crimsun> err, crap, I think I'd better install dapper before Apr 13
<LaserJock> EOL? 
<crimsun> yeah
<jdong_> can we not EOL distros on Friday the 13th next time? :) 
<LaserJock> crimsun: alsa?  no thanks dude.  I think people want *working* sound
<crimsun> overrated
<crimsun> you said as much yourself :p
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> sound is great, when  you need it
<LaserJock> I'd use sound much more if I was ever in a good position
<LaserJock> for it
<LaserJock> I always end up at lab
<LaserJock> or my wife's trying to talk to me
<crimsun> just in case anyone's contemplating buying a brand spanking new laptop, I recommend _not_ getting a toshiba. 
<LaserJock> yeah, I think my first will be my last
<LaserJock> it was pretty cheap, at the time
<LaserJock> but it's kinda a pain
<crimsun> they're excellent doorstops. 
<LaserJock> the keyboard is starting to go
<LaserJock> and the screen is getting wobbly
<LaserJock> and not from compiz
<crimsun> ooh, you get desktop-effects for free! 
<jdong_> LaserJock: ha, not from compiz :)
<jdong_> is it time to start filing funny compiz bugs? 
<LaserJock> the hinge is just getting lose
<jdong_> like windows I can no longer find after flinging them around? 
* TheMuso will never touch toshiba again, thats for sure. 
<LaserJock> compiz made me throw up, now my keyboard doesn't work
<TheMuso> My thinkpad is more solid than any toshiba I have previously owned. 
<crimsun> TheMuso: but creative labs and toshiba are a match made in $heaven! 
* TheMuso notes that he had toshibas before he used Linux for day-to-day work. 
<TheMuso> crimsun: Yeah. 
<crimsun> oh wait, sorry, I mistook madness for support.  Sorry. 
* TheMuso hopes to get another couple of years out of this notebook, assuming I can work around battery life. 
<TheMuso> The notebook is already three years old. 
<LaserJock> my toshiba is around 3-4 years old
<LaserJock> the stupid ac adapter is going too
<LaserJock> it's like $50 for the cheapest replacment I could find
<TheMuso> Whats the recommended patch system to use with a package that uses cdbs and currently has no patch system? 
<LaserJock> simple-patchsys I'd think
<Fujitsu> Are there currently modifications to the source? 
<TheMuso> no
<rbrunhuber> Is there a good tutorial for debugging c/c++ with kdevelop or eclipse? 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<TheMuso> Hey bddebian. 
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian. 
<bddebian> Hi geser, TheMuso, Fujitsu
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee! 
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee. 
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso, Fujitsu! 
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> evolution seems really nice
<jdong> yes, it shold be taught in schools. 
<TheMuso> har har har
<jdong> :)
<zakame> morning all
<TheMuso> Hey zakame. 
<fernando> hi zakame is night :P
<zakame> TheMuso: ! here
<ScottK> Hi all. 
<ScottK> Anyone in UUS available to look at uploading a patch (Bug #92569)? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92569 in libspf2 "Intermittent incorrect SPF results" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92569
<TheMuso> ScottK: I'll take a look. 
<ScottK> Cool.   Thanks TheMuso
<zul> hey
<ScottK> ho
<Hobbsee> hi zul 
<zul> hey Hobbsee how goes it
<Hobbsee> zul: i've lost my USB stick, but apart form that, it goes
<zul> good good..
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: at least those are getting cheaper - any significant data? 
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: some, yes
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: i dont think my gpg key was on there though
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Well, only moderate damage then. 
<zul> its not the end of the world
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> just annoying
<TheMuso> ScottK: Re mentioning lp bugs in the changelog, its better to use the form Closes LP: #number, as when the package gets uploaded, soyuz recognises that you have mentioned a bug closure, and while it doesn't close the bug yet, it will in the future. 
<TheMuso> ScottK: I can change that easily enough, but just be aware of that for next time. 
<ScottK> OK.   Thanks. 
<ScottK> The dpatch stuff looked correct? 
<TheMuso> Seems to be ok, I'm about to build. 
<TheMuso> ScottK: Have you made sure that the previous patch you applied for amd64 actually gets patched in? 
<TheMuso> Hang on. 
* TheMuso checks build log. 
<TheMuso> Yes it does. 
<ScottK> Cool.   How's it look? 
<TheMuso> ScottK: Good. 
<ScottK> Great. 
<TheMuso> ScottK: Uploaded. 
<ScottK> Great.   Thanks for the help. 
<TheMuso> Have a look at my most recent comment, you will notice this line.  Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed: 92569
<TheMuso> That is a direct result of the way one mentions it in the changelog. 
<ScottK> Will do. 
<jdong> MOTU's, how would you like backports bugs redirected to you guys? 
<jdong> i.e. I'm coming across lots of backport requests that are more SRU-oriented
<jdong> shall I just affects: the Ubuntu source package? 
<jdong> any group that should be subscribed, etc? 
<TheMuso> ScottK: You know the drill with uploaded packages?  Set to fix released once the package has built successfully, noting that currently a manual shove is required for universe stuff to get through? 
<ScottK> Didn't know about the manual shove, but other than that, yes. 
<ScottK> Who has to push (do I just wait for the archive admins to get around to it)? 
<Hobbsee> just wait for the archive admisn
<ScottK> OK.   Thanks Hobbsee. 
<ajmitch> yay, done with work for the day
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hooray, now you can get beryl into universe for feisty. 
<ajmitch> no, I won;t
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sabdfl wants it
<ajmitch> sabdfl wants lots of things
<TheMuso> haha
* TheMuso decides to torture himself by turning a text only config script for a package into debconf. 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true that.   not often that he visits #beryl-dev and tells them that he wants to see beryl in ubuntu by feisty
<ajmitch> that's heartwarming, really
<ajmitch> but it doesn't inspire me to work on the packages
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> http://pricechild.co.uk/logs
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> "let's talk to dholbach about accelerating you to the point where you can upload straight to ubuntu"
<ajmitch> who needs silly things like procedures, etc? 
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Thats unfair. 
<TheMuso> FOr us who put in the hard work. 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed. 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and freezes
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: however, he's emailed MC asking about it, apparently, although i havent seen teh mail come through yet, so i'm sure you'll be able to voice your objections :)
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> depends on what accelerate means to me
<ajmitch> I know
<lifeless> if it means 'train him up', then he will be putting in the hard work
<ajmitch> I'm presuming it means that
<ajmitch> 21:54 <          sabdfl > i've mailed motu-council and cc to ask we change that to a moderated team
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> I'm sure it was decided that it be a restricted team at the same time ubuntu-dev was made so
<ajmitch> since we do everything by email now
<tonyyarusso> Is it possible to ask LP to e-mail you about every change to a particular package? 
<TheMuso> tonyyarusso: You can put your name down to receive bugs. 
<TheMuso> Other than that, I know of no other way. 
<tonyyarusso> ok
<Hobbsee> jdong: no idea how you should redirect them back to us.   maybe tag them as sru-needed or something.   someone actually has to have the interest to put the SRU through. 
<jdong> Hobbsee: *sigh* that's the thing... I'm so tempted to allow backports solely based on reason of bugfix. 
<jdong> I'm pretty convinced that doing so does not affect the chances of it at SRU anyway
<Hobbsee> jdong: sru's getting easier, but we dont have that many people, and most people are concentrating on feisty
<jdong> Hobbsee: it's getting easier, yes, but for upstreams that don't make bugfixes easy to cherrypick, it's still a burden
<Hobbsee> true
<jdong> that, as you said, most don't want to even consider
<guidex> hey
<Hobbsee> hiya
<orangey> hey all! 
<Hobbsee> hiya
<orangey> is there some sort of tree (CVS, SVN, etc) where patches to packages go before they end up in repos? 
<orangey> or do maintainers only upload packages? 
<white> orangey: this depends on the package
<white> orangey: some teams (like pkg-perl team, cyrus team, ...) have a VCS where they store their sources
<white> orangey: other packages don't (i do not have a VCS for my smaller packages which i maintain alone for instance)
<orangey> white: what about the linux-source package? 
<orangey> I assume it would..
<Lathiat> thats maintained in git i think
<jdong> it's in git
<jdong> kernel.org/ , git, ubuntu-2.6.git
<Hobbsee> heya white! 
<white> orangey: you mean the kernel?  yes the kernel team has its own VCS
<white> not quite sure if it is the same for ubuntu and debian though ...
<white> Hobbsee: heya :)
<white> Hobbsee: so when are you finally coming to Melb? :) 
<orangey> white: and where can I find the VCSs? 
<orangey> ah! 
<orangey> jdong beat me to it : )
<white> orangey: i am not quite sure about ubuntu, but debians is on alioth afaik
<white> alioth.debian.org that is
<jdong> http://science.slashdot.org/science/07/03/16/2125257.shtml
<jdong> oops
<jdong> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git;a=summary
<jdong> "human clipboard race condition". 
<orangey> thank you all! 
<Hobbsee> white: dunno.   when i dont have uni
<white> Hobbsee: mid-semester break ...
<white> .  o O(hint hint ) ;)
<Hobbsee> white: good point.   maybe :0
<Hobbsee> white: whatever would i do tehre? 
<white> hmm maybe i should travel a bit as well
<StevenK> Like there's anything to do in Melbourne anyway. 
<TheMuso> I am told that melbourne has a good live music scene. 
<ajmitch> melbourne is nice :)
* ajmitch might come over in june or july for a few days
<orangey> alright, good night friends! 
<orangey> Thanks for the direction about the kernel! 
* LaserJock tries to do some PHP
<LaserJock> I haven't quite figured out how to do anything useful
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the  most useful thing you can do with php is run far away
<LaserJock> it can't be that bd
<LaserJock> *bad
<LaserJock> I wanted to make a cool little page to help me with LP tracking
<LaserJock> maybe I could try mod_python though
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you know of an example of page using mod_python that's really easy? 
<LaserJock> like, I was trying to read REVU but it wasn't as simple for a first example as I'd like it to be
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: bantracker maybe? 
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: where would I get my hands on the code for that do you think? 
<LaserJock> would Seveas have it somewhere? 
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: Try the ubotu/Ubugtu code checkout from Launchpad.   I'm not sure if the web code is included, but it might be. 
<poningru> feisty bug: links2 depends on libdirectfb-0.9-24 but feisty has libdirectfg-0.9-25
<poningru> poningru bug: poningru is too lazy to file bugs in lp.net, so he bugs people in IRC
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Could you file it and tag it as "bitesize" and "packaging" please? 
<tonyyarusso> heh
<poningru> tonyyarusso: can you fix that bug? 
<poningru> the poningru bug I mean ;_
<poningru> err ;)
<poningru> will do
<poningru> actually
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Give me a blunt object and a plane ticket
<poningru> rofl
* Hobbsee steals the blunt object, and takes it to work, so she can do nasty things to idiot customers with it
<poningru> rofl
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: But you have your point stick! 
<Hobbsee> yes, i know how to work the stuff at work.   no, you telling me that it works the other way, and it not working that way, will just end up with you looking stupid. 
<Hobbsee> yes, you do have to pay for the cigarettes.   it's not acceptable to sit on the counter, reach around, and try to take some. 
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It might also end up with them looking hit with a blunt objectg. 
<TheMuso> I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of packages that use directfb are broken. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I've seen quite a few. 
<poningru> tonyyarusso: file it against links2 right? 
* Fujitsu gets rdepends and checks them. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I tried that. 
<Hobbsee> smoking some really good crack will ENSURE that we notice you, because of the stench! 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I wasn't able to get any output. 
<tonyyarusso> poningru: yeah
<poningru> tonyyarusso: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/links2/+bugs
<poningru> right? 
<Fujitsu> poningru: Strip out the feisty
<poningru> right
<Fujitsu> Gah, stupid stupid stupid forum-people. 
<Fujitsu> I responded to a thread that they should file a bug. 
<tonyyarusso> looking
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Were you able to get anything? 
<Fujitsu> They continue to put bug-worthy comments in the thread, without filing a bug. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Haven't tried yet. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hah.   i think is aw that, yes
<Fujitsu> I replied to like 20 threads yesterday telling people to file bugs, damnit. 
<poningru> lol alan pope already filed it
<tonyyarusso> nice
<Fujitsu> poningru: Link? 
<poningru> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/links2/+bug/92712/
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92712 in links2 "Broken dependency on libdirectfb-0.9-24" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* Fujitsu fixes with a rebuild. 
<poningru> yaaay
<tonyyarusso> poningru: you could confirm it I suppose
<guidex> i'm a programmer of ten years who just moved from windows to linux and would like to start making linux apps, is realbasic 2007 be a good start? ( previously vb6, vb.net, vc#, java sdk, php)
<guidex> .. under ubuntu
<Fujitsu> RealBasic is one of the more evil languages around. 
<guidex> oh
<TheMuso> We need to be able to do a mass pkg scan of packages that build-dep on a particular package. 
<tonyyarusso> hehe
<poningru> guidex: YECH
<poningru> python
<Fujitsu> You could grab MonoDevelop and continue using C# and VB.NET, or learn Python. 
<guidex> python?  never even had an overview of it
<guidex> is python prefered? 
<tonyyarusso> guidex: Common languages from what I've seen include python, C, and smatterings of perl, C++, and PHP, depending on what you're doing
<Fujitsu> guidex: RealBASIC is proprietary and impossible to include. 
<guidex> hrm
* tonyyarusso has been meaning to try python too
<guidex> well thing is i
<guidex> i've mostly been under vb/vb6
<guidex> to mono then
<poningru> mono--
<guidex> so realbasic apps can still be installed? 
<imbrandon> guidex, gambas == vb6 , mono == vb.net c#
<poningru> python++
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You should be able to use grep-dctrl to do that. 
<imbrandon> i was a win programer too at one time ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon!  hi! 
<imbrandon> ( long ago )
<imbrandon> heya everyone
<Fujitsu> I must say you'd be a whole lot better off learning Python.  It's pretty easy. 
<Fujitsu> ! python
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon. 
<ubotu> python: An interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version).  In component main, is important.  Version 2.4.3-11ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 37 kB, installed size 208 kB
<Fujitsu> .. not very useful, ubotu. 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, not nessesarly, some times you use what you know, its better for me to use gambas or mono, then learn a new lang
<guidex> so gambas apps are easy to install then? 
<guidex> less dependencies? 
<imbrandon> guidex, yes
<Fujitsu> Mono is better. 
<imbrandon> mono is best
<Fujitsu> Gambas has enormous runtime dependencies, doesn't it? 
<imbrandon> in your situation
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, no
<imbrandon> no more than vb6
<imbrandon> no more than python
<imbrandon> no more than perl
<imbrandon> no more than c++
<Fujitsu> But Gambas is very non-standard. 
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> Python, Perl, C++ are commonly installed. 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, stop talking unless you know what you are trying to say
<imbrandon> how is it non standard
<imbrandon> its a damn programing lang
<imbrandon> it makes it own standard
<guidex> does anyone in here have vb6 experience? 
<Fujitsu> I mean, it's very uncommon to have the runtime installed. 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, and in my environment it uncommon to have perl installed, that dosent make perl non-standard
<guidex> if so... does anyone know how feasable (if at all) it is to run vb6 under linux/wine and view your apps that way
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Never knew of that one. 
<guidex> cause i got it running, but can't compile
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: No problem.  It's useful
<imbrandon> guidex, i used vb6 for 7 or 9 years, yes they can run under wine, or you can paste them into gambas and recompile ( same syntax ) or you can convert them to vb.net and use mono
<guidex> ok thanks
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, gambas has runtimes just like vb6 ( or any other lang for that matter ) but with things like apt-get , deps are no big deal right? 
<imbrandon> ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: vb7 porting is a good deal of work though
* poningru spends next half an hour trying to install mythtv because of its deps
<jdong> but definitely worth it IMO
<imbrandon> jdong, there are 1000's of converteers out there that do 99% of the work
<guidex> i haven't successfully ported my code using .net but i continue to try :D
<imbrandon> poningru, join #ubuntu-mythtv we'll give you a hand , also there is a new meta that will do it all for you ( in feisty )
<poningru> imbrandon: I was kidding :p
<poningru> already have it installed
<jdong> pfft poser :)
<poningru> imbrandon: see your comment re: deps ;)
* poningru posses for jdong 
<poningru> err wait a sec
<poningru> Hobbsee: come pose here will ya
* poningru is the wrong gender for this kinda thing
* poningru runs
<poningru> before Hobbsee gets him with her pointy stick of doom
* imbrandon hugs Fujitsu , sorry that hit a nerv, Linux only programers sometimes dont understand the learning curv of comming from windows, sometimes using what you know is better than the stock "learn language X" response
* tonyyarusso watches poningru bite the dust
<jdong> poningru: meh gender never stopped me...
<jdong> (kidding)
* Fujitsu hugs imbrandon back, presuming that this message actually sends... there's a lot of lag with 3 pbuilders running. 
<poningru> woah
<poningru> Fujitsu: what kinda box you got? 
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: You think you're lagged?   HA! 
<Fujitsu> poningru: Dell Inspiron 630m, PM1.6GHz, 1GiB...
<poningru> bah thats not so bad at all
* tonyyarusso sees lags over 100 routinely
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: As in, my cursor moves once every couple of seconds at the moment. 
<Fujitsu> Not internet lag. 
<Fujitsu> I used to be a VB 4 programmer, back many years ago. 
<poningru> Fujitsu: ... get a seperate box dude...
* Hobbsee beats poningru with a large axe
<tonyyarusso> ah
<imbrandon> or use aurora / intrepid :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I was thinking that. 
<poningru> eek
* poningru bleeds all over -motu
<tonyyarusso> Aw man, now we have to clean it again
* Fujitsu pushes poningru out, and proceeds to clean up. 
* Hobbsee makes tonyyarusso clean
<tonyyarusso> So much for the Beta release
<imbrandon> vb4 wow, i rember when that came out, was the first 32bit ( and 16 if you was cheap ) vb ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: In fact, I have the box right here. 
<Fujitsu> It's enormous. 
* TheMuso is planning on really getting into C by creating an audio game. 
<Fujitsu> A couple of thousand pages of manuals, 14 VB floppies, and 1 ODBC redistributable one. 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, cool
* TheMuso still has a copy of visual basic for DOS lying around. 
<imbrandon> TheMuso, sodo i ;)
<Fujitsu> It has advertising on it about how it's all new and 32-bit. 
<Fujitsu> poningru: Fix for links2 uploaded. 
<poningru> yaaah
<poningru> now thats service
<tonyyarusso> indeed
* tonyyarusso high-fives Fujitsu 
* poningru ^5's Fujitsu too
* poningru tracks down other packages that might still depend on the old one
* LaserJock kicks mod_python
<Fujitsu> poningru: I'll generate a list in a sec. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What's the issue?  I've used it a bit. 
<imbrandon> LaserJock, wasup ? 
<poningru> so I had a question re: one of the packages
<imbrandon> brb gotta replace some ram in a server
<poningru> err nm
<Fujitsu> I'm trying to look at bug #93007, but I can't get a proper backtrace from it, as apport doesn't catch it, because something else does.  Anybody got any ideas? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 93007 in gnome-breakout "Gnome-Breakout is busted (feisty)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93007
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I'm using an older version
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and it doesn't seem to like me very well
<StevenK> I didn't think gnome had a crash handler. 
<LaserJock> getting the .htaccess right is a pain
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What is it doing toe exhibit that dislike? 
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Use gdb like normal people? 
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It has bugbuddy, but it doesn't do that sort of thing. 
<Fujitsu> StevenK: True... I wonder if that'll work...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it just doesn't run the .py, it just shows the code instead
<Fujitsu> Indeed it does, but now I have to search out all the right -dbgsyms. 
<StevenK> LaserJock: You don't have a PythonHandler for the <Location> ? 
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, I can't get it to take PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
<LaserJock> PythonHandler <py file> works ok
<LaserJock> at least I can get something to work
<LaserJock> but most of the examples  use mod_python.publisher
<imbrandon> that runs it as a cgi then, not with mod_python
<StevenK> I usually use PythonHandler <module>
<LaserJock> hmm, then maybe I just don't know what I'm doing
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you should have something like ......
<LaserJock> I can't seem to get past  basic Hello World
<imbrandon>         AddHandler mod_python .py
<imbrandon>         PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
<imbrandon>         PythonDebug On
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no go
* Fujitsu fixes the other two libdirectfb unmetdeps. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's not very descriptive
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ok fine, it just shows the code
<LaserJock> or I get 403s on some of the test .py
<Fujitsu> Put a /somefunction after it, and see if it does anything. 
<Fujitsu> (in the URL, that is)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: There were only two? 
<StevenK> LaserJock: And look at the error log
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that gets me a 404
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yeah. 
<TheMuso> Right. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What if you put a function that exists? 
<LaserJock> 404
<LaserJock> it must be something funky
<StevenK> And what does the error log say? 
<StevenK> If that doesn't help, kill apache, run it with -X and strace it. 
<LaserJock> StevenK: I don't think I've got that kind of access
<LaserJock> StevenK: but the error log just says that the files can't be found
* Fujitsu notes there are a lot of php4 unmetdeps. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: get fixing :)
<StevenK> Some of those should just get punted out. 
<TheMuso> That wouldn't be so easy, as the package code as it is may not support php5. 
<LaserJock> well, I get it to work with:
<LaserJock> AddHandler python-program .py
<LaserJock> PythonHandler mptest
<LaserJock> and
<LaserJock> from mod_python import apache
<LaserJock> def handler(req):
<LaserJock> but I have no idea how to do anything interesting with that
<LaserJock> the docs move on to    PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
<LaserJock> this is why PHP seems much easier
<LaserJock> but I suppose once I get it I'll have more fun
<Fujitsu> It's a whole lot nicer, more flexible, and saner than PHP. 
<Fujitsu> And it does OOP properly. 
<imbrandon> but php was designed for the web , python and perl were not, as you are finding out LaserJock ;)
<imbrandon> brb
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I'm giving up for tonight
<LaserJock> I'll have to talk with cbx33 as I think he got it working and it's his box
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> Fujitsu: got another one for ya
<Fujitsu> poningru: Go ahead. 
<poningru> dovecot-common
<poningru> and inetd
<poningru> specifically openbsd-inetd
<Fujitsu> dovecot-common isn't on the list I generated in a fresh chroot 10 minutes ago. 
<poningru> Fujitsu: this isnt dependent on libdirectfb
<poningru> I would file a bug
<poningru> but I cant figure it out
<Fujitsu> poningru: I've got the whole unmetdeps list here. 
<poningru> Fujitsu: well the weird thing is dovecot depends on inetd but package doesnt do it
<poningru> err package doesnt specify it as such
<poningru> so if you tried to install dovecot-common without inetd being installed it would throw bunch of errors
<poningru> and not start
<poningru> the funny thing is in ubuntu-desktop inetd is installed by default
<poningru> but server cd does not install it by default
* poningru assumes server cd is -minimal/-standard
<Fujitsu> -standard, I think. 
<poningru> yeah what I cant figure out is why inetd installs in desktop and not in -standard
<cypher1> can the fix for  bug 74159 done in edgy, or should it be fixed only in feisty ? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74159 in netkit-base "Should Recommends update-inetd" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74159
<poningru> ...
<cypher1> got it.. update-inetd looks available only in feisty so the fix can be done only feisty and above
<poningru> cypher1: thanks dude assuming that will fix the dovecot-common issue
<cypher1> poningru, dovecot-common issue ? 
<poningru> see my convo with Fujitsu 
<imbrandon> looks like there is a killer review on /. for feisty ( ALREADY ! ) 
<poningru> basically dovecot-common package throws errors about /etc/inetd.conf missing
<poningru> imbrandon: lol yeah from osnews
<poningru> cypher1: dovecot-common should really depend somehow on openbsd-inetd or some inetd but it doesnt
<poningru> imbrandon: and guess what it isnt the beta she uses its herd5
<crimsun> oh yeah, nothing like git-format-patch at 3:10 AM due to flight cancellation! 
<imbrandon> heya crimsun 
<Fujitsu> poningru: The beta isn't even out yet...
<Fujitsu> Hi crimsun! 
<imbrandon> there is no beta yet
<imbrandon> poningru, 
<poningru> Fujitsu: yeah I know
<poningru> hence me going WTF
<imbrandon> why wtc? 
<imbrandon> err wtf
<poningru> because she says it is beta
<poningru> that she reviewed
<poningru> but then she says herd5 was used
<imbrandon> she is a reporter, they are notoriously wrong
<imbrandon> nothing new there
<poningru> funny thing she actually is usually pretty acurate
<poningru> she even filed the bugs
<crimsun> was that eugenia's post? 
<poningru> that she ran into
<poningru> crimsun: yeah
<crimsun> ah, I wonder if that had anything to do with the flurry of ffmpeg and faa[cd] 
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Heheh, yeah...
<Fujitsu> `Give me AAC in ffmpeg NOOOOW!' 
<imbrandon> ugh, that must have been jdong 
<jdong> imbrandon: as much as I would love to say that....
<jdong> imbrandon: and I love you too. 
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> for the record I asked for the risky compile-time option to add AAC in addition to mp3, etc :D
<jdong> which was perfectly reansable
<jdong> so take that
<jdong> imbrandon: gimme AAC in amarok NOOOOOW
<jdong> lol
<imbrandon> no ! 
<poningru> aac is apple drm right? 
<imbrandon> poningru, no
<Fujitsu> So, does anybody feel like maintaining multiverse versions of ffmpeg and its rdepends? 
<imbrandon> aac is an open codec, apple uses aac + drm
<poningru> oh
<Fujitsu> AAC has patent issues, I believe. 
<Fujitsu> Hence its restriction to multiverse. 
<poningru> huh
<imbrandon> e.g. it would be the equiv of ogg vorbis + drm ;)
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> Fujitsu: apparently not
<poningru> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding#Licensing_and_patents
<jdong> AAC is just patented
<jdong> that is the only issue
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's what I thought. 
<jdong> well.. currently IIRC the MPEG-4's are personal use OK up to 2010-ish or something
<jdong> but RMS consipiracy theorists...
<jdong> meh I love my AAC and H.264.  bite me. 
<poningru> http://www.vialicensing.com/Licensing/MPEG4_FAQ.cfm?faq=6#6
<Fujitsu> I'm sure it wasn't all put in multiverse by accident. 
<imbrandon> 02:16 < Fujitsu> Hence its restriction to multiverse. 
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> wrong paste
<imbrandon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding
<jdong> Fujitsu: I have strong impressions that encoding AAC is patent protected...
<jdong> I think that's even in ffmpeg's LEGAL file
<jdong> that there have been real life suits filed because of it
<Fujitsu> jdong: ... I'm not debating that. 
<poningru> jdong: take a look at the wikipedia link I gave
<jdong> poningru: opening....
<Fujitsu> poningru: Take a look at Wikipedia's credibility. 
<Fujitsu> And take a look at where it is in the Ubuntu archive. 
<poningru> Fujitsu: take a look at the citation ;)
<Fujitsu> I know which I trust with regards to this. 
<jdong> However, a patent license is required for all manufacturers or developers of AAC codecs
<jdong> mmm. 
<poningru> right
<jdong> lovely
<jdong> so technically all FOSS encoders are no-go. 
<poningru> so it can be distributed but only as source
<poningru> well you can
<jdong> poningru: even as source it's sketchy. 
<poningru> right quasi-legal
<jdong> poningru: quasi-legal as in illegal but nobody's gonna complain. 
<Fujitsu> Source should be OK, but this is the law, so anything could happen. 
<jdong> i.e. Gentoo win32codecs fetcher scripts, etc. 
<poningru> jdong: well if this ms v att case goes in ms' direction then that would be legal
<jdong> poningru: lol, irony, we're rootin on MS
<poningru> I know right
<imbrandon> anyhow rember you all are talkin encoding, not playback ;) playback is fine ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: no?  codec developers need license
<jdong> codec = encoder and/or decoder. 
<jdong> :(
<crimsun> CNR to the rescue! 
<jdong> It is for this reason FOSS implementations such as FAAC and FAAD are distributed in source form only,
* crimsun cackles
<poningru> rofl
<jdong> lol
<jdong> so easy no wonder it's #1
<jdong> or is that the wrong slogan?  :D
* Fujitsu ponders calling ops to get rid of insane crimsun. 
<jdong> crimsun should split into two. 
<jdong> a sane and insane one. 
<jdong> like jdong and funroll-loops
<crimsun> oh bah, let me hobble about my cave in peace
<imbrandon> hehe
<jdong> personally I've found ogg and aac to be pretty similar in quality
<jdong> except ogg can screw up a few kinds of techno pretty badly
<jdong> ogg theora however.... has some ways. 
<Fujitsu> Argh, last comment on the /. Feisty story is annoying. 
<jdong> Fujitsu: stop reading the comments
<jdong> read the mars rover thing! 
<poningru> the waah? 
<jdong> haha.  on victoria's rim. 
<Fujitsu> jdong: I did that like 12 hours ago. 
<jdong> lol
<jdong> Fujitsu: did the innuendos jump out?  :D
<poningru> oh right
<poningru> rofl
<poningru> hooray for /.
<poningru> news for 2nd graders
<jdong> Fujitsu: are you trying to tell me that a computer can run this Ubuntu thing without Windows? 
<jdong> no drivers, no boot floppy? 
<jdong> check your assumptions first, man. 
<poningru> jdong: you read that zdnet thing too? 
<imbrandon> anyone who fights over codecs should diaf imho, its the ricer community for music, hell fm radio sounds good enough for millions everyday ;)
<poningru> bwhahahah
<jdong> poningru: I think we all did :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: I read that about 12 hours ago, too :P
<jdong> imbrandon: I'm not gonna waste my time quibbling over intricate details, but order-of-magnitude differences are worth a bit of time to evaluate, IMO
<Fujitsu> As everybody well knows, my computer couldn't live without these critical Windows services. 
<jdong> Fujitsu: heh be glad Xgl won't be complained about as abandonware ;-)
<TheMuso> If I were world dictator, I would decree that everybody *MUST* use Flac. 
<jdong> and Fujitsu, Microsoft spent 9 billion dollars making Vista, and you're saying this free gnu thing that popped up overnight can replace the windows? 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I have to agree with you there. 
<jdong> TheMuso: buy me a new terabyte SAN first. 
<Fujitsu> jdong: I loved that line in particular. 
<poningru> TheMuso: I think I would be leader in the revolution that ends your dictatorship
* jdong is mostly content with his 112-128kbit aac's
<Fujitsu> Ew, AAC. 
<jdong> one day RMS is gonna come assault me. 
<Fujitsu> jdong: You're just sick. 
<jdong> Fujitsu: oh suck it up :P
<jdong> Fujitsu: they're in an ogg container though ;-)
<jdong> Fujitsu: to annoy the crap outta my purist friends. 
<jdong> mean, no? 
<Fujitsu> Urgh...
* Fujitsu exits the room and vomits. 
<Fujitsu> So wrong...
<jdong> lol
* Fujitsu kicks gnucash and gnomesword for FTBFSing. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I'll look at gnomesword, as I uploaded it if you like. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I'm looking at it now. 
<TheMuso> built fine here
<Fujitsu> Some libgnomeprint headers missing, it seems. 
<TheMuso> um what version? 
<TheMuso> of gnomesword
<Fujitsu> 2.2.0-1
<TheMuso> actually the upload I did hasn't been published yet. 
<Fujitsu> Argh, it's probably in unapproved. 
<Fujitsu> It'd be really nice if we could see what was in there. 
<TheMuso> Damn right. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: According to the build page, all successfully built
<TheMuso> or do you mean its not installing
<Fujitsu> It was uninstallable, but a rebuild fixes that. 
<TheMuso> right
<Fujitsu> It doesn't build in a Feisty pbuilder, due to missing headers. 
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> You know, when libs are changed like that, I reckon lp should check for packages depending on the lib, and just rebuild them. 
<Fujitsu> That would be nice, yeah. 
<imbrandon> ...
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: ? 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ? 
<imbrandon> heh
* Fujitsu discovers the origin of the `ClamAV isn't being maintained' mail during an adventure in the fora. 
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> It came from the fora, which is why it's so crazy. 
* jdong eyes Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> jdong: Most of the forum people are crazy, admit it. 
<jdong> Fujitsu: and a merry christmas to you too. 
<Fujitsu> Why thankyou. 
<imbrandon> i think the spacebar should be removed from all forum users keyboards , kthxbye
<poningru> rofl
<imbrandon> winemerge kdelibs
<imbrandon> erm
<jdong> Password:
<man-di> Error: Operation Failed
<imbrandon> Ke)kcsae*sdfJNsd7
<imbrandon> i can see jdong trying to ssh to my box now and use that ;)
<jussi01> lol
<lupine_85> hey people
<lupine_85> thought i'd pop in and apologise for the whole fast-tracking thing... I realise it's not exactly fair on the people who've actually walked the walk
<imbrandon> ? 
<lupine_85> sabdfl wants to turn me and pricechild into motu's post-haste
<imbrandon> !?! 
<lupine_85> yeah, I know
<imbrandon> where did mark say this? 
<lupine_85> on #beryl-dev, then in a mail to MOTU council council
<imbrandon> the MOTU process isnt that long if you have the qualifications, it only takes one email and 1 - 2 week(s)
<lupine_85> apparently to get beryl uploaded "at first"
<imbrandon> zomg i fixed those packages how many times ?  now this ?  wtf
<lupine_85> heh, I don't even /use/ ubuntu any more ;)
<imbrandon> ...
<TheMuso> WOw the devs are working today? 
<imbrandon> i am ?  why wouldent they ? 
<TheMuso> imbrandon: They don't normally do so on the weekend
<imbrandon> i see marks letter to the MC lupine_85 , nothing about fast tracking, he only sugested that you apply
<imbrandon> just as anyone else
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i guess some dont ( the paid ones ) but not all core-dev is paid :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I know that. 
<imbrandon> lupine_85, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-March/000050.html
<TheMuso> But people like cjwatson and mithrandir are. 
<imbrandon> nothing about fast tracking there
<imbrandon> TheMuso, maybe release time ;)
<TheMuso> true that. 
<TheMuso> I was just commenting that one doesn't usually see them around. 
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<lupine_85> imbrandon: hmm.  That's not the email I got... the subject was "Fast-track mentoring for lupine_85 and pricechild" To:  motu-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> lupine_85, look for your self, its an open list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-March/thread.html#45
<lupine_85> mm, I did.... which is why it's strang
<lupine_85> ...e
<imbrandon>  /msg sabdfl per your email to the MC about restricted vs moderated teams, that was a TB decision , here is the e-mail from mdz about it https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-March/000045.html
<imbrandon> crap
<imbrandon> i hate this fskin keyboard
<lupine_85> it was To: motu-council & cc: me, pricechild & mdz ~midnight.  maybe it's not reached the ML yet
<sabdfl> _MMA_: around? 
<imbrandon> sabdfl, its 5:30 am his time, might still be asleep, but i can ring him if its semi-urgent
<ajmitch> evening
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch. 
<ajmitch> good to see sabdfl around :)
<enyc> weep
<sabdfl> not too urgent, just wanted to see.  thanks imbrandon
<enyc> meep even ;-)
* enyc wonders when the usual pile of impatient-for-next-release people will turn-up ;-)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, whoohoo today is payday , so i'm gonna get those adapters for the aurora buildd ( sata to ide ) later
<ajmitch> yay
<enyc> SATA > PATA bridge devices? 
<imbrandon> yea
<enyc> why you use those etc.? 
<imbrandon> the buildd has all pci slots used by sata controlers , and we need more hdd's ;)
<enyc> ;-)
<imbrandon> so 4x more devices with those :)
* enyc remembers attaching hdds by drilling extra holes in the case ;-)
<enyc> not enough bays ;-)
<imbrandon> well this is a 2u case so i can put 8 total
* enyc done many hardware-hacks lol
<Fujitsu> I had some HDDs taped into the server at home a year or so back :-/
<enyc> Fujitsu: hrrm not well heatsinked then? 
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> Gah, gnome-panel keeps restarting on upgrades. 
<enyc> Fujitsu: funny... you sound like a broken harddisk to me.... ive known haany many broken fujitsu hdds
<Fujitsu> enyc: They worked fine. 
<Fujitsu> enyc: That's what I'm named after, funnily enough. 
<imbrandon> yea i have burned up MANY MANY Fujitsu drives
<Fujitsu> A broken Fujitsu 10.4GB HDD. 
<enyc> Fujitsu: ;-)
<imbrandon> back in a bit, smoke time while i wait for qt4.2.2 to compile on XP
* ajmitch should go & sleep now
<Fujitsu> Night ajmitch. 
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch 
* enyc cats a load af z's and Z's to a buffer and hatnds them to ajmitch 
* ajmitch was just checking in briefly after getting back from a friend's 21st party
* enyc rand into trouble with some gnome- panel / applets  memory-leaking
<enyc> seem to like eating all the RAM
* proppy hugs dholbach
<giskard> hello *
<Hobbsee> heya giskard 
<Fujitsu> Hey giskard. 
<imbrandon> grep '<a href="https://launchpad.net/~' /tmp/all.html | cut -f 2 -d '~' | cut -f 1 -d '"' | grep -v '/' | sort | uniq
<imbrandon> errr
<imbrandon> i'm gonna fix this damn paste key
<vil> hi, I have a question about UVF exception, can anyone help me? 
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ScottK> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> Hi geser
<geser> vil: just ask
<ScottK> sistpoty: I kicked off the discussion you wanted on ubuntu-motu.   It'll be interesting to see where this goes. 
<phanatic> ScottK: i fully agree with your points
<sistpoty> ScottK: yay, thanks.  nice reply to sabdfl's mail... I must admit that I'm not too comfortable with the suggestion as well
<ScottK> Thanks. 
<sabdfl> hi folks
<ScottK> Hi. 
<sistpoty> hi sabdfl
<geser> Hi
<sabdfl> i think we want to maintain really open doors
<sabdfl> i'm disappointed that upstreams have got as far as REVU then given up
<sabdfl> upstreams who want to see their packages loved in ubuntu should find us more welcoming! 
<sabdfl> balance that with the need to build a cohesive community
* ScottK is new here during the Feisty development cycle and didn't find it that hard.   I thought it was a welcoming, nurturing environment. 
<sabdfl> and strong process / practices / principles
<sabdfl> i think a good approach is to say "you can upload, but just those packages"
<sabdfl> and "you need to collaborate with motu and demonstrate you have that ability before you can upload more widely"
<sabdfl> that protects the integrity of the MOTU team
<sistpoty> sabdfl: having upstream packaging for ubuntu is indeed a good thing.  But I fear that creating a side-route to motu-ship will demotivate ppl.  who went through the hard way
<ScottK> sabdfl: What problem are you trying to solve?   My experience is that it only takes a day or two to get a good package uploaded. 
<sabdfl> sistpoty: that's why we have to differentiate between "limited upload" and MOTU
<sabdfl> i'm asking that we create a process for fast-track with limited upload
<sabdfl> i will get LP to support this so we can enforce it, initially we would need to do it on tryst
<sabdfl> errr
<sabdfl> trust
<sabdfl> i do enough on tryst already! 
<sabdfl> ScottK: trying to connect upstreams more directly with their packages in ubuntu
<geser> there are already two beryl packages in universe.  Do somebody know why the rest didn't get it? 
<sistpoty> hm... interesting... iirc there have been some suggestion for s.th.  like this on debian side as well, because the nm process is really long
<sabdfl> geser: that's exactly the right question to be asking! 
<geser> I catched somewhere (Debian perhaps) that beryl had licensing problems which should be resolved with beryl 2.0
<ScottK> Yes, but on Debian, they seem to be moving to group maintenance like Universe is now.   I don't use Debian, but I'm on the Python modules team and can get stuff reviewed and uploaded through mentors much like I do here through REVU. 
<ScottK> sabdfl: I'm the upstream for several of the packages I've brought here through the REVU process and I feel plenty connected. 
<sistpoty> sorry, offline right now... my family just arrived at my door... bbl
<ScottK> sabdfl: Upon reflection, I believe that your proposal will reduce upstream connection to Ubuntu, not increase it. 
<sabdfl> ScottK: how is that? 
<ScottK> By giving people limited upload rights for the packages they are concerned about, they can get their stuff into Ubuntu without any community involvement. 
<ScottK> In the long run, they are less connected to the community, not more. 
<ScottK> There's no joining incentive. 
<ScottK> You get more of their stuff into Ubuntu, but they have no need to be connected to the community. 
<ScottK> How committed are they going to be to maintaining these packages then? 
<ScottK> Who's going to get stuck with it? 
<sabdfl> good point
<sabdfl> we could connect that upload right to continued participation in the community
<sabdfl> take the beryl guys
<sabdfl> it's not quinn here, but lupine_85 and pricechild
<sabdfl> they are specifically working on *ubuntu* packages
<sabdfl> but not in ubuntu
<sabdfl> their primary interest is in beryl 
<sabdfl> for them, ubuntu is a way to get wider testing and insight
<ScottK> OK.   So they upload them to REVU and two MOTU's look at them.   If they're good, then they go in.   How hard is that? 
<sabdfl> of course, we want them to understand how they fit in
<sabdfl> ScottK: it creates an opportunity for the ball to be dropped
<geser> I also fear that people get to focused on their packages and ignore the rest and don't try to become real motus
<sabdfl> i think some percentage of the upstreams who do this will infact want to get more involved
<ScottK> I understand where they come from.   I'm here primarily because of my interest in SPF (Sender Policy Framework), but I've become a part of the community and done stuff to help the greater good. 
<sabdfl> and that's great
<sabdfl> those are the motu's and future -core-devs
<sabdfl> ScottK: you are in that percentage
<sabdfl> but i fear other upstreams have come and gone, and that's a problem i would like to solve
<ScottK> sabdfl: It sounds like the real problem you are trying to solve is not enough MOTUs to review packages. 
<sabdfl> so, three tiers, as it were
<sabdfl>  - "single package focus"
<sabdfl>  - "motu"
<sabdfl>  - "core-dev"
<sabdfl> ScottK: it's deeper than that
<sabdfl> as soon as i have to get my work THROUGH someone else, there is an opportunity for me to feel disenfranchised
<jlzo> effie_jayx, hi.. 
<sabdfl> we need to balance that with the sense of rigour and quality that MOTU enforces
<sabdfl> but i believe in giving people a chance to get it right
<sabdfl> especially early in a release cycle
<ScottK> OTOH, if I take my work to someone else and they bless it as a good thing, I get the Geek accolade thing too. 
<sabdfl> that's true - both are valuable, i'm not trying to lessen the benefits of review and collaboration
<sabdfl> i'm trying to open the INITIAL door a bit wider
<ScottK> What technical skills as a packager does a MOTU need that your tier one single package does not? 
<geser> When upstream can upload directly to universe doesn't it extend the divergence to/from Debian? 
<sabdfl> MOTU would need a broader sense of integration between packages
<sabdfl> policy and direction of the distro as a whole
<sabdfl> rather than just one piece of it
<sabdfl> "what is the next release going to look like, and how do all these threads combine to make that happen"
<sabdfl> as opposed to "here's a new upstream release of Foo"
<sabdfl> those two are slightly in tension
<sabdfl> but we need to acknowledge both and create processes for both
<ScottK> Perhaps a middle ground would be to go through REVU for NEW packages and then give limited rights for updates? 
<sabdfl> ScottK: that would be fine, yes
<sabdfl> in other words "prove you can produce a first cut that is OK"
<sabdfl> for packages where there is an existing package, that's not so easy
<ScottK> Perhaps do that up to UVF and then after UVF, it needs a MOTU ack. 
<sabdfl> yes, that could be done too
<ScottK> But if you do this, then you need to create general criteria and not have this be the special "Beryl exception". 
<sabdfl> i agree - i ampushing for Beryl because I think we urgently need it in *main*
<ScottK> Frankly, MOTU is probably the most open technical forum I've run across.   More friendly is not needed. 
<sabdfl> i'm trying to arrange that desktop-effects let you choose between beryl and compiz
<ScottK> sabdfl: Then maybe put it in main directly and make it not a MOTU problem? 
<sabdfl> so we can get wider testing of both
<sabdfl> in this case we can, yes
<ScottK> sabdfl: I also think this points to a general need for something like Debian Experimental.   This came up a few days ago in the discussion about KDE4 packages. 
<geser> can really a upstream author be add good packager without guidance? 
* lupine_85 pokes his head up
<sabdfl> geser: yes
<lupine_85> the packages in ubuntu.beryl-project.org work - and they're fairly well-thought-out - the main question to me, aside from ubuntu integration tweaks, is whether there are any ubuntu policies they violate that I don't know about ;)
<sabdfl> ScottK: we can bypass MOTU, but i think it's important that we get this straight for future
<imbrandon> whoa , sorry just steped back in, umm it only takes them sending an email to the MC and 3 ppl saying "yes" ?  i dont feel that is hard, much easier then when i went infront of the TB for MOTU and again for Core-Dev
<ScottK> Personally, I think this approach has long term social risks for Universe and I would encourage you to step back and make sure you've conciously accepted the risk. 
<ScottK> IMO getting into Universe is easy enough for anyone that makes an effort. 
<sabdfl> i would agree, but i've seen several cases where upstreams have felt disenfranchised
<Lutin> imbrandon: not quite sure about that
<sabdfl> they feel there's a tight group here that all know each other, and that to be effective here they have to "crack the nod"
<sabdfl> we trust these guys deeply anyway - we ship their code! 
<imbrandon> sabdfl, no offence, but did you see how much me and ajmitch and crimsun and others had to whip the beryl packages into shape for them even in their svn, even small things like versioning conflicts , lupine_85 , Amaranth , and a few others on the team already work closely with some of us, i would be happy to mentor them into the week long process of becomming a full MOTU but i'm not at all for side stepping the process 
<Amaranth> whoa whoa, don't include me in there :)
<geser> sabdfl: I confess that a upstream can get a good packager but only after a time.  I've doubt he will be a good packager from the beginning (if he hadn't done packages in some inofficial repo)
<sabdfl> folks, we need to accept that something failed
<imbrandon> Amaranth, you did back in the day ( UDS timefremae )
<sabdfl> six months ago we wanted beryl in ubuntu
<sabdfl> now, there are good packages, but they are not in ubuntu? 
<Amaranth> imbrandon: yeah, never really did anything with that
<Amaranth> imbrandon: i work on compiz now :)
<sabdfl> we need to ask, where did that fall down? 
<lupine_85> sabdfl: what failed is that nobody told me that nobody else was packaging them ;)
<lupine_85> so a lack of communication
<sabdfl> and the best way to ensure communication is to have a direct role for upstreams in ubuntu
<imbrandon> sabdfl, sabdfl what failed was a lack of communication, not the fact there wasent sponsors or packagers
<sabdfl> imbrandon: in this case, perhaps, but again i'm looking to find a way to get upstreams more directly connected
<imbrandon> infact if you look at the archives about 2 months ago i made the first beryl upload for them, it had issues with copyright that needed addressed , since then there has been little word "officialy"
<lupine_85> imbrandon: on the contrary, there was a big push.  all-our-own artwork became a blocker for 0.2, in fact
<imbrandon> sabdfl, i wholey agree, but i dont think "fast tracking" someone for one package or set of packages when they havent walked the walk is ummm silly
<imbrandon> better to fix the problem, not create a new one
<Amaranth> lupine_85: did anyone ever come here and say "we've fixed the copyright problems, here are some new tarballs"? 
<imbrandon> lupine_85, i know, but between my uploads and 0.2 was  a LONG pause
<sabdfl> imbrandon: i disagree - in this case the person has provably produced packages which are the only way an ubuntu person can actually get the software
<sabdfl> except that to do so, the ubuntu user has to go and find the repo, add the repo to sources.list, add a gpg key that they need to trust...
<sabdfl> that's silly
<sabdfl> let's (a) get those packages in ubuntu and (b) let the people who produce them get direct feedback from users, as well as directly improve the packages
<imbrandon> sabdfl, right only after me ajmitch geser and crimsun just to name the ones of my head that "fixed" them , ask quinn
<imbrandon> sure, lets get them in
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i'm all for that 10000000%
<ScottK> It seems odd to me to argue that it's to hard to get packages approved after submission when the packages have never been submitted. 
<imbrandon> but ....
<sabdfl> this is going to result in better, faster evolution of free software
<imbrandon> one sec phone
<imbrandon> sorry
<sabdfl> imbrandon: i appreciate that you and others helped to produce those packages, but then communication broke down
<sabdfl> let's make sure that does not happen in future! 
<geser> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/02/msg00382.html mentions some lincense problems with beryl for Debian.  Are these problems resolved now? 
<sabdfl> we will shortly have the PPA facility, which will allow us to mentor people directly using LP builds, just not uploading direct to universe
<lupine_85> geser: yep
<sabdfl> as fast as possible we want those packages to go into the mainline so they get wide testing
<sabdfl> we already ship tango icons
<sabdfl> that's not an issue for us
<geser> lupine_85: did these problems prevent an inclusion into universe?  or were there any other problems? 
<TomaszD> can anyone tell me when is restricted-manager going to be available for translation?  I can't find the template in rosetta
<TomaszD> oops, wrong channel :)
<imbrandon> ok back sorry, yes lets get them in there, i'm willing to doso today if wanted, but lets do this the normal way with me and geser sponsoring them , and let the MOTU processes take their run as far as MOTUship
<imbrandon> sabdfl, ^^
<imbrandon> i mean honestly, the MOTU process is only a week, IF that
<geser> especially since it doesn't take that long to become a MOTU.  I became from nom-member to MOTU in something like 4-5 months. 
<imbrandon> most of the time shorter, if there is proven experince as in these two cases
<Amaranth> I'd say that the license issues have _not_ been fixed
<Lamego> that's not a long time on open source terms :P ? 
<Amaranth> unless the beryl developers have assigned most of their work on beryl-core to Novell and released it under the MIT license
<geser> to became a DD you need something like 1-2 years
<Lamego> that's why releases take so long :P
<lupine_85> geser: debian doesn't have universe... ;) but AFAIK tango and some license headers in source were the main issues
<lupine_85> there are possibly some headers that still aren't perfect, but tango is completely sorted (and not an issue for ubuntu anyway).  
<imbrandon> lupine_85, still i became a core-dev inside of 4 months from my first upload ( almost a year ago now hehehe )
<geser> Lamego: I haven't had problems to get uploads sponsors as non-MOTU.  crimsun only needed a few minutes to some hours to upload it for me. 
<lupine_85> imbrandon: I started the process.  Honestly I did.  I guess I picked the wrong package ;)
<imbrandon> lupine_85, sure , lets get those headers worked out and get this in
<Lamego> btw, could someone review the  gnome-subtitles package in REVU ? 
<imbrandon> lupine_85, are you a native english speaker?  not that i care but i was going to offer to get on a conf call with you ( my dime ) and we can get this worked out quickly 
<Amaranth> I'm looking at files the beryl guys have obviously changed and they still only have the compiz header
<sabdfl> ok, in this case i;m happy everyone wants to get the packages straight in
<sabdfl> let's solve that first
<lupine_85> imbrandon: native english, yes
<Amaranth> which says david reveman is the author, novell owns the copyright, and it's MIT licensed
<sabdfl> separately, let's figure out the parameters for getting upstreams direct access to their packages in ubuntu
<imbrandon> sabdfl, yup, i'm all for doing that ( and in 30 minutes i have the next 4 days off from "work" ) but it seems at a glance we still have lic issues that keybuk mentioned a few months ago
<imbrandon> we need to get that right first
<Lamego> geser, I was refering to Debain disto releases, not the MOTU releases ;)
<imbrandon> sabdfl, +5 
<lupine_85> imbrandon: I've got a fortnight with nothing to do ;)
<Lamego> erm, Debian
<imbrandon> is the teamspeak server still up sabdfl ? 
<Amaranth> and, hey, while we're all here talking about license problems... :)
<lupine_85> so, at the moment it seems .c files have the Novell header, but packages have an AUTHORS and COPYING that's up to date
<Amaranth> can someone review the sponsor the upload of gnome-compiz-manager in revu? 
<Amaranth> the one that got uploaded had license issues, new one should fix them
<imbrandon> lupine_85, good we can work with that, at leaste its a start
<imbrandon> lupine_85, what about the availibility of pricechild ?  you know? 
<sabdfl> imbrandon: not sure
<lupine_85> PriceChild is on the train home right now
<imbrandon> ok
<lupine_85> Dunno when he'll be in
<sabdfl> cool!  thanks for working on this
<imbrandon> np, its not ready yet, but we'll see if we can whip it into shape today
<lupine_85> btw sabdfl, sorry to have to turn you down for UDS but studies come first ;)
<geser> Amaranth: it's already upload and sitting now in the NEW queue: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gnome
<sabdfl> lupine_85: fairy nuff
<imbrandon> lupine_85, ok lets do this, i will be at my home office in 1.5 hours, if geser ( and sabdfl if wanted but i dont see why ) and you want , we'll either a) get on a conf call on my dime , or b) use the TS voip and get this rolling this afternoon
<Amaranth> geser: pretty sure that's the one that had license issues
<lupine_85> I can do VoIP :)
<sabdfl> i have a conf facility too we can use
<sabdfl> ping me on IRC
<imbrandon> ok
<Amaranth> geser: that's why it's still sitting after a month, according to seb128
<imbrandon> sounds great
<imbrandon> yea , /me might not make it to spain this time, but i'll be in portland and boston ;)
<geser> Amaranth: ah, are you aware that universe is now in FF?  or doesn't it apply to this package? 
<imbrandon> anyhow ok, i'm gonna finish my work work and i'll ping you lupine_85 when i get to my home office
<Amaranth> geser: dunno, seb128 told me to get it reviewed and uploaded
<lupine_85> ok, no worries.  hopefully PriceChild will be around then
<imbrandon> meantime if you would see about those .c/.h headers
<imbrandon> thats one less thing to worry about
<lupine_85> sure... so just replace with the GPL header & add the contents of AUTHORS to the bottom? 
<geser> Amaranth: as new packages don't get into universe till release, I'd guess most review isn't top on most people's lists
<sladen> lupine_85: is that legally okay to do;  is it also available under the GPL license (even if the headers don't currently say so?) 
<lupine_85> sladen: compiz was licensed under MIT
<lupine_85> Beryl clobbered it to GPL
<sladen> lupine_85: gotcha.   
<Amaranth> and now it sounds like they want to go back to MIT, fun all around :)
<lupine_85> heh, yeah
<lupine_85> got to love licensing
<sladen> remember the "The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
<sladen> included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software." 
<sladen> moo, gah, excessively complicated
<lupine_85> Yeah, probably why the GPL header wasn't added in the first place - we can't remove that one
<sladen> did Beryl leave any evidence of the MIT copyright, or just paste the GPL in over the to? 
<lupine_85> so add GPL to the bottom of it? 
<lupine_85> sladen: the header currently in the files is "permission to use, coy, m
<lupine_85>  * Permission to use, copy, modify, distribute, and sell this software
<lupine_85>  * and its documentation for any purpose is hereby granted
<lupine_85> I'm thinking after the huge caps, the GPL license
<sladen> so there should be   (C) Copyright foobar, 2005;  then Permission to use...;
<lupine_85> sladen: yep, 
<lupine_85> ah
<sladen> yup, okay, do that.   And if anyone complainins we can enquire what they'd /like/ us to do :)
<lupine_85> Copyright notice in all copies; permission notice in supporting documentation
<lupine_85> So as long as we keep the copyright (c) 2005 novell, we can move the rest into an "upstream copyright" file? 
<lupine_85> IANAL, at all ;)
<sladen> I think the secret is to do it, and wait until somebody suggests anything better, yes
<lupine_85> Hmm.  Well, for emerald (based on MIT g-w-d), copyright novell was kept, and the MIT/Novell header removed
<sladen> do that then
<sladen> the one definte is not to remove the copyright notice
<lupine_85> yeah, I know for a fact that davidr doesn't have a problem with that particular style
<lupine_85> ok... time for a 50-line sed script ;)
<sladen> that's one way
<lupine_85> one way, or the best way? ;) 
<sabdfl> sed-meister in the house
<imbrandon> heh
<jabra> any developers around ? 
<geser> jabra: sure
<imbrandon> jup
<jabra> geser: I have a package that is in Debian, there was a bug and I recently made a fix for it and had it accepted into the release.  Will it be automatically updated for feisty ? 
<geser> jabra: not until requested
<geser> jabra: which package is it? 
<jabra> ok how can I request it
<jabra> one sec i'll get you the info
<jabra> http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070316.013319.8d7b6948.en.html
<jabra> package is called pbnj
<jabra> http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pbnj.html
<jabra> 2.04-2 was accepted into testing for debian, thus I just wanted to make sure it was accepted into feisty
<imbrandon> lupine_85 , sladen , sabdfl , geser : just fyi might make sure these issues are taken care of also, this was from the last upload , http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10778/ and http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10779/
<jabra> geser: let me know if you need anymore information
<sabdfl> thanks imbrandon
<geser> jabra: I've filed just a sync request as bug #93150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 93150 in pbnj "[Sync Request]  Sync pbnj (2.04-2) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93150
<MagnusR> Hi!  I have a question about giving a version number to a package.  I will try to package apparmor for ubuntu.  Unfortunately, they seems not to have any real version numbers and I must use the latest from their subversion archive, how do I give my packages a version number? 
<jabra> cool thanks
<imbrandon> MagnusR, normaly something like apparmor_<lastversion>+svn<date>
<imbrandon> or similar
<jabra> tecnically it is already in etch so you may want to note that too
<jabra> geser: ^
<jabra> if anyone has any concern
<imbrandon> ok, headed to home, back in a few minutes ( ~30 to 45 )
<jdong> MagnusR: I've seen 0.0.0~svn2007010203, 0.0.0-svn, 0.0.0+svn
<imbrandon> you dont want to use -
<jabra> geser: thanks for your help
<geser> jabra: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess for a description of the process
<MagnusR> imbrandon, jdong: ok thanks.  
<imbrandon> it will cause upgrade problems if say 1.0+svn<date> releases then 1.0 regualrly and you use a dash instread of + or ~
<imbrandon> ok really afk, back in a few
<jabra> k
<jabra> so the sync will be automatic now ? 
<geser> jabra: due to the current state of feisty development there are also additional restrictions which pbnj passes
<MagnusR> A related question: Normaly I run dh-make on a tar file.  In this case I do not have a tar file, What is smartest way; create a tar file or use another tool? 
<jabra> ok 
<geser> jabra: more or less, an archive admin needs to process it at start a script or something like that
<jabra> ok
<joejaxx> hello jabra :)
<jabra> hi
<joejaxx> how is pbnj coming along? 
<jabra> coming 
<jabra> I just fixed a bug in debian and I'm getting the fix into feisty
<jabra> there was a dep missing from the package
<joejaxx> jabra: ah ok nice
<jabra> well not really but nice that I received the bug report and am gettin it fixed before both releases
<lupine_85> ah, there you are
<lupine_85> PriceChild: imbrandon is going to help us out with getting beryl up to scratch
<PriceChild> :)
<lupine_85> s/he'll be back in a little bit
<PriceChild> Ok
<lupine_85> in the meantime, I'm trying to get a 40-line sed script working, lol
<PriceChild> :)
<sabdfl> let me know if we need a voice call today
<lupine_85> sabdfl: we're waiting on imbrandon :)
<sabdfl> ok
<bluefoxicy> hmm
<bluefoxicy> is universe in charge of Xen? 
* bluefoxicy noticed no #ubuntu-xen
<geser> bluefoxicy: afaik zul takes care of xen
<bluefoxicy> nods
<bluefoxicy> I'm curious if there's any real effort there to get Ubuntu focused on Xen (pretty much kernel/installer/grub work I think...)
<Laser_away> bluefoxicy: zul has been doing that
<bluefoxicy> Personally my ideal world is Linus puts Xen in mainline and everything default installs as a Xen Dom0 with non-Xen installs being "special" but I'm kinda nuts :P
<ivoks> bluefoxicy: luckily, kvm is already in main :)
<ivoks> bluefoxicy: and works better than xen in my case :D
<bluefoxicy> ivoks:  yes :)  But I don't have hardware. 
<ivoks> only thing that doesn't work with kvm is ubuntu :)
<ivoks> windows works, redhat too, but ubuntu... :D
<jabra> geser: should I nominate the bug for the feisty release ? 
<bluefoxicy> ivoks:  i call that a kvm bug. 
<ivoks> bluefoxicy: well, hard to tell
<bluefoxicy> unless Ubuntu is probing and looking at KVM like "I don't want this" it shouldn't break
<bluefoxicy> the point was to make unaltered OSes work :P
<geser> jabra: no hurry, it's still time to the release
<ivoks> bluefoxicy: problem is with splash image on 'booting from cd'
<ivoks> bluefoxicy: it crashes kvm :/
<geser> jabra: archive days are three times a week (mon, wed, fri) when one of the archive admins goes through the bugs for the archive admin team
<ivoks> anyway... take care...
<jabra> ah ok cool
<jabra> so it if it isn't done by like thursday next week then i'll nominate it 
<jabra> sound good ? 
<phaidros> how to find out about a package (wired-0.5) which is said (in the forums) on the way to feisty? 
<geser> jabra: afaik nomitations are used for packages in main and not universe
<jabra> ah ok
<geser> jabra: but you could try to bribe an archive admin to process the sync :)
<jabra> you mean to get pbnj into main ? 
<phaidros> is launchpad the place to look for?  cannot find the package there.. 
<geser> to get it synced from Debian
<LaserJock> phaidros: it could be in the NEW queue
<jabra> well i'm sure it will happen 
<phaidros> LaserJock: as I dunno the structure: where in the NEW qeueue? 
<jabra> if it doesn't happen then i'll jump into irc and see if I can find an admin or something
<phaidros> s/in/is/
<geser> phaidros: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue
<LaserJock> phaidros: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=wired
<LaserJock> phaidros: that means it's waiting for an archive admin to approve it.  I'm not positive it will be for Feisty but it's at least in the queue
<phaidros> so, how could I test it and recommend as working? ( in gentoo small branches like gentoo-osx such things where done by mailinglist)? 
* imbrandon returns
<joejaxx> welcome back
<imbrandon> heya joejaxx 
<joejaxx> hello imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heard your gonna make it to spain ;)
<jussi01> can someone tell me how to make pbuilder use packages that arent in the repos but are dependencies? 
<astinus> imbrandon: Now all you need is good weather! 
<imbrandon> astinus, ;)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> jussi01, you can use "pbuilder login --save-after-login" then install them
<lupine_85> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> but that will taint your pbuilder base, so back it up
<lupine_85> PriceChild is going to be back in ~20 minutes
<imbrandon> ( e.g. base.tar.gz )
<jussi01> ok, thanks imbrandon 
<imbrandon> lupine_85, ok no hurries, i will be here all afternoon
<lupine_85> ok :)
<lupine_85> I'm going through beryl-core licensing right now... what a mess, in places
<lupine_85> and sed didn'ty want to be my friend :'(
<imbrandon> haha yea
<astinus> imbrandon: Could I steal a couple minutes of your time later? 
<imbrandon> astinus, sure
<lupine_85> good news, a lot of the others aren't anywhere near as bad
<astinus> imbrandon: /msg? 
<Seveas> stgraber, love that desktop background, can you mail it to me :)
<stgraber> Seveas: of course
<Seveas> thanks!  dennis@u.c
<imbrandon> lupine_85, join #beryl-fasttrack ( also geser pricechild and anyone else on this sprint )
<imbrandon> so we dont clutter here any more than needed
<lupine_85> ok
<imbrandon> moins Seveas 
<Seveas> ola imbrandon 
<blackskad> #beryl-fasttrack
<imbrandon> Seveas, fwiw that background is on art.ubuntu.com iirc
<Seveas> imbrandon, you know I'm lazy :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> astinus, yes thats fine
<imbrandon> astinus, or here, or jabber or email
<imbrandon> astinus, i'm easy
* astinus winks
<jussi01> imbrandon, sorry to bother further, how do I get to my files from root in pbuilder? 
<imbrandon> jussi01, use bindmount ( man pbuilder for a howto )
<imbrandon> and no worries , i dont mind being bothered sometimes ;)
<jussi01> thanks a million
<geser> jussi01: or copy them simply from outside the pbuilder into the pbuilder (see /var/cache/pbuilder/build/)
<jussi01> ahh, great!! 
<jussi01> thanks
<tsmithe> why oh why oh why
<LaserJock> tsmithe: that's what I was thinking ;-)
<tsmithe> LaserJock, you going to uds-sevilla? 
<LaserJock> tsmithe: some of it probably
<tsmithe> lucky you
<tsmithe> i had to turn down sponsorship
<LaserJock> I probably should but I'll work it out ;-)
<tsmithe> well, /me is only 15.  don't think family would be comfortable with it
<LaserJock> I have to get back early becuase of my little brother's wedding
<tsmithe> :)
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> yeah, I guess that's at least something nice about being "old"
<tsmithe> yep
<tsmithe> "old" in free software isn't "old" in real life, though
<LaserJock> I remember when I first got to grad school
<LaserJock> and everybody wanted to go to the casinos or sports bars after work
<tsmithe> what's "grad school"? 
<LaserJock> and I couldn't go cause I wasn't 21 yet
* tsmithe is a brit, remember :)
<LaserJock> graduate school, after a bachelors degree
<tsmithe> aha
<LaserJock> not really sure what you're equivalent is
<tsmithe> you were young, then
* tsmithe isn't either.  maybe "post-graduate". 
<tsmithe> in England, when you're 18 i think pretty much everything is open to you
<LaserJock> in the US usually 18 gives you everything but alcohol and car rentals ;-)
<tsmithe> wow...
<LaserJock> even last year I had to have a "junior" grad student rent a car for me :-)
<stgraber> tsmithe: Same kind of problem for me, I'd have been really interested to go to UDS but as I'm not 18 yet and parents aren't really comfortable with me leaving house and going far from it for a week I'll have to stay at home and follow on the Internet :(
<LaserJock> I'm a 5th year grad student and still the youngest
<tsmithe> so how old are you?  you must be amazingly bright to be at "grad school" if you're not 21
<tsmithe> stgraber, well, i often go away.  but that's usually with friends or school
<LaserJock> I'm ... 25 now
<LaserJock> been at university for 9  years
<tsmithe> hehe.  ten years older than me
<LaserJock> so I've been at the uni since you were 6
* LaserJock suddenly feels old
<stgraber> LaserJock: :)
<ScottK> LaserJock: You are a year shy of being two decades younger than me.   I have a daughter tsmithe's age.   You have no need to feel old. 
<tsmithe> :)
<LaserJock> ScottK: sweet, thanks :-)
<tsmithe> LaserJock, you went to uni when you were 16?? 
<tsmithe> woah
<LaserJock> yeah
<tsmithe> woah
<LaserJock> got a Bachelor of Arts in Environmental Science with a dual major in Chemistry and Applied Mathematical Science
<tsmithe> when you were, what, 18? 
<LaserJock> which means almost nothing
<LaserJock> but it's fun to say
<tsmithe> well, it's very impressive
* stgraber uses free softwares since he was 10 years old and contributes to some projects since he was 13 :)
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody! 
<stgraber> hi Toadstool 
<LaserJock> tsmithe: they kinda bent some rules so I started my degree when I was 16
<Toadstool> hi stgraber 
<LaserJock> graduated when I was 20
<tsmithe> did you not feel uncomfortable being so young? 
<tsmithe> (my pa said he was - he went to uni when he was 17)
<LaserJock> then I've been working on my PhD for the last 5 years in Physical Chemistry
<tsmithe> hiya Toadstool 
<Toadstool> hi tsmithe 
<tsmithe> LaserJock, i wish they'd teach chemistry properly in british schools
<LaserJock> tsmithe: not a whole lot, it was a small school in my home town
<tsmithe> we don't actually do anything interesting
<LaserJock> yeah
<tsmithe> kinda puts me off
<LaserJock> almost all text books teach at least 50 year old chemistry
<tsmithe> (the only science i find interesting at school is biology)
<tsmithe> so what do you do working for 5 years on a PhD? 
<tsmithe> it's a long time - and isn't it all towards one goal? 
<LaserJock> well the first 2-3 are taking classes and passing exams
<tsmithe> uhuh
<LaserJock> then after you've been admitted into PhD Candidacy then it's just research and writing your dissertation
<LaserJock> I'm at the stage now where I'm trying to kinda finish stuff of and get everything written up
<tsmithe> so what are you researching? 
<tsmithe> (I don't care if it makes no sense to me :) )
<ScottK> If you want to understand the process, look here: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php
<ScottK> :-)
<Toadstool> heh
* LaserJock ^5s ScottK 
<tsmithe> hehe
<LaserJock> tsmithe: my research is on detecting the orientation of molecular machinery with lasers
<LaserJock> that's the really really compact version any way
<tsmithe> hehe
<tsmithe> sounds fun
<LaserJock> I'm part of a project designing, creating, and detecting what could be the worlds smallest light-driver motor
<LaserJock> *driven
<tsmithe> light-driver? 
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> light-driven motor? 
<tsmithe> how's that work?  wait... it's probably extremely complex
<LaserJock> yeah, most motors on the molecular scale are driven by chemical reactions
<LaserJock> our's is driven purely by light and physics :-)
<LaserJock> the light excites one part of the motor, which in turn makes it change shape, which in turn makes it rotate about an axis
<tsmithe> ooh clever
<LaserJock> let me see if I still have a movie of it
* tsmithe can't wait till he is studying somethings that: a) he has chosen; b) finds particularly interesting (and is thus more motivated)
<tsmithe> my main motivation at school is that if i slack off, i won't be able to get to that stage
<LaserJock> tsmithe: that's a good motivator :-)
<tsmithe> yup :) works well
<LaserJock> tsmithe: but you also have to be a bit self motivated too
<tsmithe> eh? 
<LaserJock> most scientific research is really boring to do
<LaserJock> the end goals are cool
<tsmithe> i get straight As, so i don't think i'm in a pickle
<lupine_85> LaserJock++
<LaserJock> but it takes a lot day-to-day boring work
<tsmithe> lupine_85, good luck on getting this MOTUship
<LaserJock> I've been working on the same molecule for about 3 years
<tsmithe> LaserJock, like package maintaining :P bugs vs cool features
<tsmithe> woah
<tsmithe> that's a very long time
<LaserJock> trying to figure out how to detect if it can absorb light in a certain way
<LaserJock> nothin' fancy
<tsmithe> that's 94,608,000 seconds
<LaserJock> but it builds up to a larger, and much cooler goal
<tsmithe> yup
<LaserJock> tsmithe: try http://laserjock.us/ubuntu/360nRotate-slow-loop.mov
<tsmithe> that better be an open source format
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> I have no idea actually
<LaserJock> I think it's quicktime
<tsmithe> pah
<LaserJock> I've got a PowerPoint file if you want that ;-)
<tsmithe> noooo! 
<tsmithe> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey tsmithe 
<tsmithe> i must say LaserJock, i think my brain is better at a graphical represenation of your description than that film
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> probably
<tsmithe> can you do me a better one? 
<LaserJock> but those are computational chemistry results
<LaserJock> it's not just a cartoon
* ScottK always thinks of stuff like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_High_Energy_Laser
<stgraber> LaserJock: Ogg/Theora version of your video is only 587K instead of 2.1M :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: that's cool
<LaserJock> too bad I'm the only one that'd use it :(
<LaserJock> ScottK: yeah, I want me one of them ;-)
<stgraber> LaserJock: yep, last time I tried to read a ogg theora file on Windows I've spent half an hour to find the right codec :)
<LaserJock> I mostly deal with macs
<LaserJock> my boss can't stand Windows/MS
<LaserJock> used to be hard core Linux
<LaserJock> in fact one of the only big Linux advocates on campus
<LaserJock> now he's all Apple and OS X
<stgraber> at least it's an Unix-based OS
<LaserJock> that's why he uses it
<LaserJock> he can still run fvwm+emacs
<stgraber> and most of the Linux apps can work using Fink or things like that
<phaidros> yeah and gentoo-osx is also a nice one ..
<LaserJock> so these days I spend most of my time in OS X ssh'd to my Ubuntu machines
<LaserJock> ScottK: btw, this is what I use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nd:YAG
<tsmithe> lupine_85, ping
<ScottK> Where's the kaboom.   I was expecting an Earth shattering kaboom? 
<tsmithe> LaserJock, i know they are computed.  that's why you can do me a better one :)
<lupine_85> pong, tsmithe
<lupine_85> sup? 
<LaserJock> tsmithe: heh, that move probably took about 1 week on a computational cluster
<tsmithe> lupine_85, do you have ubuntu membership? 
<tsmithe> LaserJock, so?  :P
<lupine_85> I think the technical term for what I am is ubuntu supporter
<lupine_85> I signed some CoC at some point
<tsmithe> ok - thanks
<LaserJock> ScottK: no kaboom, but I do burn through business cards a fair amount
<LaserJock> ScottK: it'll still blow the retina right off your eye if you got a direct hit though :/
<ScottK> OK.   Then eye shattering kaboom.   I can live with that.   That and the potential for fires. 
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> the power supply is the biggest danger
<LaserJock> I think in ours there's 6 large (bigger than a soda can) capacitors adding up to something like 50kV
<ScottK> Cool. 
<LaserJock> the prof next door had one discarge on him once
<LaserJock> blew him across the room and out the window
<ScottK> Wow.   I remember working with a guy on some electrical stuff and he got zapped with 440v AC.   I learned what the smell of cooked human flesh was that day (smells like chicken), but he was fine. 
<ScottK> How'd the prof next door fare with his 'experiment'? 
<LaserJock> fine I guess
<LaserJock> luckily it was a 1st floor lab
<ScottK> A long time ago I shot these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_missile for a living.   Those had a satisfying kaboom. 
<LaserJock> yes, quite :-)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ScottK> hi sistpoty. 
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<sistpoty> LaserJock: we've been thinking about filing bugs against ubuntu as RFP's during the last MC meeting... what do you think of it? 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: oh yes
<LaserJock> you're here
<LaserJock> I saw that and wanted to talk to you about it
<LaserJock> I got a feature into the LP Beta
<LaserJock> that allows us to preload the +filebug page with a tag
<sistpoty> cool
<LaserJock> so we can give people a URL that will automatically tag it
<LaserJock> when I talked with the LP guys
<LaserJock> they suggested that tagging would be the way to go
<LaserJock> anyway, I was going to send out an email that we could start migrating the Candidates wiki page to LP
<sistpoty> great!  please do it ;)
<LaserJock> I thought it might be a good "bitesize" task
<sistpoty> definitely
<LaserJock> so until LP 1.0 comes out we'll need to manually tag
<sistpoty> any ETA? 
<sistpoty> (just curious)
<ScottK> It's on the horizon? 
<ScottK> The horizon being the line that no matter how long you continue to approach it, you never reach it.   ;-)
<sistpoty> haha
<sistpoty> oh, that reminds me of my thesis... damn *g*
<LaserJock> I was told something around the 1 month mark
<sistpoty> hm... that even more :P
<LaserJock> I'm guessing it'll be out by the time Feisty is released
<sistpoty> so I'll need to reach the horizon in about that time *g*
<LaserJock> but no promises
<sistpoty> sounds great
<LaserJock> what we *do* need is what tag to use? 
<sistpoty> how about RFP? 
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that's kinda cryptic
<sistpoty> as long is it's not as long as "please_include_that_package_into_the_ubuntu_repositories_kthxbye" I'm happy with anything ;)
<LaserJock> in the original bug I've got universe-request
<LaserJock> but that could be taken as meaning something more like u-u-s
<sistpoty> maybe package-request?  software-request? 
<LaserJock> hmm
<jdong> sistpoty: liek plz pkg vmware s3rv3r omg lolz kthxbye
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> jdong: maybe it' should be omgponies-please-please-kthxbye
<jdong> :)
<tsmithe> @pony LaserJock 
<tsmithe> pah
<sistpoty> new tag defined: pony :)
<tsmithe> \o/
<jdong> <ubotu> tsmithe: haha, pon-ed. 
<tsmithe> pah
<LaserJock> sistpoty: maybe request-for-package would be the way to go
<LaserJock> to tie into Debian, etc. 
<sistpoty> sounds sane
<LaserJock> ok, a quick grep shows that Candidates has roughly 450 items
<sistpoty> a bigger bite then ;)
<LaserJock> well, it shouldn't be to hard to just look at a few, see if they are even plausible (not already in Debian/Ubuntu and are packagable)
<sistpoty> yep
* LaserJock groans at ubuntu-motu
<LaserJock> I don't even want to look
<jdong> Beryl Beryl! 
<jdong> oh wait that's actually happening. 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I hope I got it right this time :P
<LaserJock> Mark could have had better timing for us
<LaserJock> but that's the way it goes
<sistpoty> I guess I'll have gray hair after the MC period, or will end up with nerves of steel *g*
<LaserJock> seems completely unecessary, IMO
<sistpoty> (or both)
<LaserJock> good sponsorship should be just fine
<LaserJock> what we really need are Freeze exceptions filed
<LaserJock> not fast-tracked MOTUships
<sistpoty> hm... the restricted upload rights for a set of packages might still be a worthwhile thing. 
<LaserJock> ugg
<LaserJock> I think that's a horrible idea :(
<LaserJock> personally
<sistpoty> well, I guess I wrote pretty much of what I think in my last mail
<LaserJock> we become worse than Debian
<sistpoty> in what respect? 
<LaserJock> not only do you "own" packages, but you are restricted in in the archive itself
<LaserJock> giving upstreams some "credit" towards MOTUship seems sort of logical
<LaserJock> especially if they've been providing Ubuntu packages
<LaserJock> but we don't even really fast-track DDs this way
<sistpoty> TB did, at least that was my impression, and imo that's also a good thing, since NM is particular harder ;)
<LaserJock> well, we don't fast track that much is what I'm saying
<LaserJock> a DD doesn't just show up one day to the TB meeting and say "I want MOTU"
<sistpoty> ah, yep
<LaserJock> they certainly get credit for the Debian work
<LaserJock> but it's not automatic MOTUship
<LaserJock> I just don't see how sponsorship is that big of a barrier
<LaserJock> especially since we have a few MOTUs that seem to be interested in the packages
* ScottK is with LaserJock.   If you show up here with a good package and are willing to hang out on IRC, you can get a package uploaded in a day or so usually.   It's just not that hard. 
<LaserJock> PriceChild and lupine_85 are on their way to MOTU I think
<LaserJock> I've seen both of them around
<LaserJock> I just don't see the pressure to bypass sponsorship
<LaserJock> it's only one extra step
<geser> me neither
<sistpoty> well, I'm no big fan of that fast-tracking either
<LaserJock> and a good one because it'll give them feedback
<LaserJock> and help them get aquanted with the processes
<ScottK> It seems to me that the big problem with Beryl was licensing and that would get them at the archive admin if it didn't here first. 
<LaserJock> I can see if nobody was willing to sponsor
<LaserJock> ScottK: they've already been there
<geser> the problem with beryl was licensing and not a problem with our sponsorship
<LaserJock> they just didn't get it back before the Freeze
<lupine_85> licensing should now be fixed
<ScottK> And from what I understood of today's conversation, they are still fixing that. 
<LaserJock> so if we want a Freeze exception fine
<sistpoty> LaserJock: did you look at my last mail on ubuntu-motu yet?  what do you think of that proposal? 
* lupine_85 kicks nameless devs in the hurties a few extra times for good measures
<sistpoty> (apart from that I really had that idea while showering *g*)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: well, my position is: We need a freeze exception not a motuship exception
<LaserJock> there is nothing wrong with our current process, at least where beryl is concerned
<LaserJock> the proper way to get beryl into feisty is to get a freeze exception
<sistpoty> LaserJock: well, I particularly didn't want to answer to the beryl question, but rather related to the general proposal
<LaserJock> lupine_85 and Pricechild working with imbrandon and whoever else wants to help out should be sufficient
<sistpoty> yes
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't particularly like it.  Its an interesting idea and I'm glad you proposed it.  I just think it's overly complicated
<LaserJock> and I haven't seen the need for it
<sistpoty> hehe... well I'm a little bit pedantic *g*
<sistpoty> s/litlle bit// 
<LaserJock> I mean, we're talking about creating a whole new class of uploaders
<LaserJock> should upstreams with packages in Main get to upload to Main? 
<sistpoty> I guess the thing I like about restricted upload rights is that ppl.  can get a smell into motu-world and would hopefully enjoy it
<geser> to much rules can look for the outsiders to complicated / to bureaucratic and scare them away
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that's an interested question
<sistpoty> intresting
<LaserJock> If a person packages well enough that we let them upload to the archives
<LaserJock> and they know enough of the policies and procedures to not break things
<LaserJock> then they should be MOTU! 
<geser> a good upstream isn't automatically a good packager (but can become one after time)
* lupine_85 catches up on ubuntu-motu
<ajmitch> morning
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> I consider MOTU to be the required level of knowledge of packaging and Ubuntu development to be trusted with Universe
<geser> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> it has less to do with how much you know the software
* ajmitch goes to read the large amount of conversation
<LaserJock> sabdfl: are you still here? 
<sabdfl> hi
<sistpoty> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> sec, lots of scrollback
<gnomefreak> is java one of those things that can not be backported? 
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: it would probably depend on what's being backported exactly
<gnomefreak> plugin,jre,bin and depends
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: you'd probably want to talk to jdong about it.  I'm really not sure how to handle that
<gnomefreak> 1.4==no crash 1.6==no crash 1.5 crash every time :)
<gnomefreak> k
<LaserJock> oh
<jdong> gnomefreak: I'm fine with backporting java....
<LaserJock> I think our packages are independent, aren't they
<jdong> they're slotted
<jdong> yeah. 
<sistpoty> as long as it won't need a bootstrap of the toolchain :P
<gnomefreak> jdong: let me talk it over with asac see if he wants to backport it.  it will atleast fix bug 92880 if not more
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92880 in firefox "Firefox crashes with java applet" [High,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92880
<sistpoty> (which is the reason I'd never let ghc6 through backports... would break everything)
<sabdfl> LaserJock: it's true, good packaging is not solely based on how well you know the software
<sabdfl> a good upstream on his own is still lost initially with packaging
<LaserJock> sabdfl: do you think sponsoring is a problem in this case? 
<sabdfl> but if for example there are existing packages, and the upstream wants to make some tweaks, they will know exactly what to do
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I would think that a Freeze exception is what's in order, not fast-tracking MOTUship
<sabdfl> LaserJock: there are examples of items falling on the floor
<sabdfl> we have folks who stopped because nobody responded
<gnomefreak> jdong: maybe ill play with it this week build it in edgy chroot see if it does fix it permently on edgy and see where i go from there?  do you want me to ping you if everything is a go fro backport? 
<sabdfl> i'm pretty disappointed that beryl did not naturally get into universe
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we stopped because beryl people stopped giving us packages
<jdong> gnomefreak: yeah please ping me; I'm like a 2-3 wks behind schedule in backports land
<sabdfl> no - they stopped because they were told "someone in ubuntu would package it"
<sabdfl> and nobody did
<LaserJock> sabdfl: there was a large lack of communication
<LaserJock> they were not told that
<sabdfl> and it will happen again unless we address it
<LaserJock> they were told that several people were working on it
<sabdfl> i don't want upstreams being told "sorry, you don't know anything about packaging, go away"
<LaserJock> and they should coordinate
<sabdfl> it turns out they learned pretty quickly about packaging
<gnomefreak> jdong: thats cool, thank you.  give me a week or 2 if that is ok.  im trying to get thunderbird-dbg or -dbgsym atm to play catch up on those bugs and ill play with this in mean time
<sabdfl> their packages are good
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we never tell them that
<sabdfl> and would get even better given exposure and mentoring
<sistpoty> sabdfl: however I guess fast-tracking motuship won't solve the communication problem
<sabdfl> LaserJock: careful saying never - it does happen
<LaserJock> I've not seen it here
<sabdfl> no, it won't.  there's always an obligation to communicate well
<Toadstool> sabdfl: I don't see how the fast-tracking motuship will solve the communication issue
<sabdfl> but the point is that we cannot ever appear to be a closed club
<sabdfl> and i'm worried that is slightly the case
<Toadstool> uh sistpoty was faster than me :p
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I'm slightly irritated because we were encouraging the beryl people
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and they never responded
<sabdfl> LaserJock: it's their software, they just setup their own repo, and we lost out on the opportunity to build a good working relationship
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we started doing some work on our own (imbrandon mostly I think)
<sabdfl> imbrandon did the right thing, mentoring them
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they came back and I told them that they should see what imbrandon was doing
<LaserJock> other people came
<sabdfl> but then it got dropped in terms of actually closing the deal and getting the package in, and getting them the ability to maintain it
<LaserJock> I think there at least 3-4 seemingly independent efforts to get it in
<LaserJock> and I specifically said that they should coordinate with each other
<LaserJock> not that they should go away
<sabdfl> the more such independent efforts, the less likely there is a real result! 
<sabdfl> just contention and tesion
<sabdfl> tension
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> we were trying to help the process
<sabdfl> upstreams have a natural right to take the lead
<LaserJock> fine
<sabdfl> they do need to learn about our processes
<LaserJock> but the put packages up
<sabdfl> they do need to fit in
<LaserJock> they got rejected
<sabdfl> they can't demand that OTHER people fit in with them
<LaserJock> we asked them to fix them and try again
<sabdfl> LaserJock: and the result was that the learning, the development, just moved somewhere else
<LaserJock> we didn't tell them they couldn't
<sabdfl> that's a failure of our process, not their work
<LaserJock> we didn't tell them they weren't working
<lupine_85> LaserJock: who put the packages up? 
<LaserJock> lupine_85: I have no idea, Quinn at one time
<sabdfl> shortly we will have a place where ANYBODY can publish packages
<sabdfl> that will make it easier
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I really really disagree that this is a failure in our process
<LaserJock> I've worked with both PriceChild and lupine_85 
<sabdfl> LaserJock: look at the result.  the same folk who started out making packages here ended up having to publish them at ubuntu.beryl-project.org
<lupine_85> If I'd known beryl wasn't being actively worked on, I would have started back at rc1 time
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they didn't *have* to, they chose too
<LaserJock> because they package got rejected by ubuntu-archive the first time
<LaserJock> *their
<sabdfl> LaserJock: i would like us to get a process in place so people will CHOOSE to do that work here
<LaserJock> fine
<lupine_85> the repo has, erm, been up since before 0.1.0 ;)
<LaserJock> I agree
<LaserJock> but, IMO the proper way to do it is sponsorship and mentorship
<sabdfl> in future,  we can say "publish them there, we will mentor you and asap get them into universe"
<LaserJock> which we do
<LaserJock> sabdfl: that's what we did! 
<sabdfl> there's a difference
<LaserJock> they just got rejected the first time because of the license issue
<sabdfl> "there" should be part of our infrastructure, not somewhere we are not watching
<jdong> gnomefreak: yeah, that's fine; hopefully by that time -archive will be less busy and actually process backports :D
<sabdfl> they went elsewhere, and we weren't watching, so they nearly never made it into feisty
<sabdfl> that's a failure
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they went on REVU
<Toadstool> sabdfl: I'm pretty sure that beryl would be in fesity right now if the packagers had kept on working with us here instead of setting up an independent repo 'cuase of the licensing issue
<gnomefreak> jdong: you got it :) ill let you know
<LaserJock> we reviewed them
<LaserJock> we uploaded them to Universe
<sabdfl> Toadstool: they did what I would do - they just set it up themselves
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: are they debianized already? 
<sabdfl> i think lupine_85 was perfectly sane to do that
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what more were supposed to do! 
<sabdfl> it was *us* that failed
<tsmithe> Seveas, ping! 
<lupine_85> gnomefreak: I have working debian/'s, yes
<ajmitch> sabdfl: we can't just stick any old thing in universe - we did try & review them & give feedback
<Lutin> sabdfl: can't get where we failed if it was a license issue
<ScottK> sabdfl: I think you've got it wrong. 
<sabdfl> ajmitch: agreed - we need a process which accommodates exactly this evolution from "bad" to "ok" and does it HERE
<sabdfl> not "go somewhere else"
<LaserJock> we never said that! 
<ScottK> sabdfl: That's been exactly my experience here (get from bad to OK). 
<sabdfl> ScottK: if i had not intervened, we would not have beryl 0.2 in universe, how can I have it wrong? 
<ajmitch> sabdfl: and that's what we try to do with REVU - we can't know if people go & package stuff somewhere else
<sistpoty> sabdfl: restricted upload rights particular won't solve that
<sabdfl> ScottK: you were patient, most people are not
<sabdfl> ajmitch: i want us to do better
<sabdfl> we should have archives where this stuff can go
<LaserJock> then hire Universe maintainers here then
<sabdfl> so people don't have to set them up elsewhere
<LaserJock> fix LP so we can use it for this
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> but we are all volunteers and we really try
<LaserJock> we helped them
<LaserJock> we sponsored them
<ajmitch> sabdfl: you're basically just saying "work harder!  review more!" -  we try & do that
<LaserJock> we *did* upload to universe
<ScottK> sabdfl: Agreed that without you're intervention it wouldn't happen, but not because of a process fault in Universe.   After your last appearance here the Beryl folks went of to fix licensing issues in their code. 
<sabdfl> ajmitch: no, that's exactly what i am not saying
<sabdfl> please listen
<Seveas> tsmithe pong
<geser> sabdfl: despite licensing or distibutional issues? 
<sabdfl> this is a social process, not a work process or a level-of-effort issue
<tsmithe> ScottK, i tend to agree with you.  i feel that they should have, if they really did want them in, and want it bad, and want to do it the correct way, then that would be how they have done it
<sabdfl> socially, if you tell people "you are not good enough" they will GO AWAY
<ScottK> If folks are unwilling to properly license their code, the LAST thing you want to give them is upload rights. 
<sabdfl> we don't want to do that
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we didn't tel lthem to go away! 
<sistpoty> sabdfl: we never did that
<tsmithe> we have perfectly good processes for granting upload rights.  let's adhere to them, and make it easier for them to go through those processes
<sabdfl> we want a place where that stuff can go from embryonic to successful and that place should be right here
<sistpoty> and we are never doing this
<Toadstool> sabdfl: we never said "you're not good enough" to anybody! 
<sabdfl> yes you did
<sabdfl> you said "your packages are not good enough"
<lupine_85> ScottK: no, I fixed the issues as soon as I became aware of them :) In fact it was imbrandon who pointed out the issues to me.  Again, communication... the rejection reasons for the last set of packages never actually reached me.  and that probably wasn't ubuntu's fault
<LaserJock> no we didn't!!! 
<sabdfl> please understand i am not personally criticising anyone here
<sabdfl> i think everyone has done a great job
<LaserJock> sabdfl: did you listen to me though?  We *did* upload their packages
<sabdfl> but our process has a negative consequence that we need to fix
<LaserJock> how is that saying "your packages are not good enough"? 
<ajmitch> sabdfl: sayiung that packages are not good enough is a *big* difference from saying that people aren't good enough - getting packages improved is a critical part of it
<tsmithe> well, i don't think that this is the correct way to fix it! 
<sistpoty> sabdfl: sorry, but what would you say if a package is not ready to get uploaded to universe?  
<jdong> Toadstool: frankly lots of processes around here imply it... I'm busy, that's not as important as the thing I'm doing now, etc. 
<sabdfl> sistpoty: i'm saying we need a place for those to cook
<Toadstool> sabdfl: ultimately, those who said that the packages were not suitable for universe are the archive admins
<sabdfl> not in universe, but still in motu
<ajmitch> we can't just accept stuff because we're afraid that we'll chase people away
<tsmithe> people need to learn what it takes, and if they have that, then they should be MOTU already, or they should find it easy to get there
<sabdfl> so, there are two different issues here
<ScottK> The only real problem is lack of MOTU resources at times.   That will get fixed with more volunteers or funding. 
<sistpoty> ScottK: ++
<tsmithe> ScottK, ++++
<LaserJock> ScottK: yep
<sabdfl> the first issue is "where do new people making new packages that do not yet exist go?" 
<LaserJock> REVU and here
<sabdfl> there are a bunch of issues there
<sabdfl> licensing needs to get straight
<sabdfl> the packages need to work
<ajmitch> here, and they upload to REVU, where we review them & give feedback
<sistpoty> and looking back hat how many packages we *got* in so far, and how many new people are around in recent times, I guess our processes aren't the worst 
<sabdfl> they are usually crap initially, but they get better given exposure, bugs, feedback, testing...
<sabdfl> that's one set of issues i want us to address
<sabdfl> I think PPA's will make that a lot easier
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we haven't waiting for PPA
<ajmitch> true, REVU doesn't build binary packages, but that was more a question of resources
<LaserJock> *have, sorry
<sabdfl> because we can say "publish your packages in the MOTU PPA"
<jdong> when will PPA happen? 
<ajmitch> yes, we're in the process of setting up our own buildds anyway
<sabdfl> cool
<jdong> it's been talked about for excess of a year now
<sabdfl> jdong: a month or two, depending on feisty release, don't want to put that at risk with bug archive changes
<sabdfl> so, that's the first issue
<jdong> ok, that's good to hear. 
<sabdfl> i wish lupine_85 had been given a place to do this work which was IN this community
<stgraber> for my first package I didn't have any problem finding the way to go from the source code without any packaging to a package in universe, the process was I think really clear
<jdong> I've been having a painful time getting a more involved backports testing process too. 
<ajmitch> sabdfl: you don't feel that REVU is part of the community? 
<sabdfl> much less risk of a drop in communications when people "see" each other every day
<jdong> PPA would help me out immensely
<ajmitch> or is it just not visible from your POV? 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we were here, he can/did work in here
<sabdfl> ajmitch: of course it is, but it's not a place where end users can get packages, so it is not the devs first love, is it? 
<sabdfl> think about it from the perspective of a beryl dev
<sabdfl> you want to give your users a place to get the packages *NOW*
<sabdfl> and that's where you will get bugs
<sabdfl> feedback
<sabdfl> results
<sabdfl> suggestions
<sabdfl> patches
<sabdfl> we need to provide that place
<LaserJock> sabdfl: then give use repo resources
<sistpoty> I guess revu particularly gives feedback about packaging bugs
<sabdfl> PPA's will help, but I'd like to MOTU's to think of how they will use that
<sistpoty> but it's not visible to the end users
<LaserJock> we can't think much about stuff we haven't even seen
<sabdfl> so, that's the first issue, and i hope everyone agrees it is important
<tsmithe> hang on - i'm missing something.. what's a "PPA"? 
<sabdfl> the second issue is different
<sistpoty> tsmithe: personal package archives
<sabdfl> say we have existing packages, and an upstream for those packages wants to work on them
<tsmithe> ah right
<sabdfl> the basic packaging has already been done, and passed
<sabdfl> the person is only updating them
<sabdfl> that's much easier
<LaserJock> sure
<sabdfl> that's where I would like us to have fast-track with limited upload scope
<sabdfl> the person *might* make a mistake
<sabdfl> so I like the idea of requiring motu signoff during freeze times
<tsmithe> and in such a critical case as beryl, do we want that to be possible? 
<sabdfl> it's also an incentive to actually GET to being a full MOTU
<LaserJock> sabdfl: how is that any different than sponsorship? 
<sabdfl> LaserJock: no delay
<sabdfl> we can make it so LP can enforce this
<sabdfl> Joe can only upload to packages X, Y and Z
<sabdfl> until he becomes MOTU
<sabdfl> and we can also enforce MOTU-signoff during freeze periods
<ajmitch> how is it an incentive to go further? 
<LaserJock> fine, let's just get rid of MOTU and upstreams can maintain their own packages
<sabdfl> ajmitch: MOTU can upload anywhere
<sabdfl> also, MOTU can upload during freeze
<sistpoty> well, updating packages is not always easier than creating new ones... especially if you look at libraries
<LaserJock> or merges
<sistpoty> yep
<LaserJock> I just think if a person really is good enough and knows enough to be trusted with uploading to Universe then they should be MOTU
<sistpoty> there might also be the problem of someone creating packages for upstream, who looses interest later on it... some things we should keep in mind
<LaserJock> if the bar for MOTU is to hight that's something
<LaserJock> *high
<sabdfl> the MOTU team are great at building standards and maintaining quality across many packages
<sabdfl> that's very important
<LaserJock> mile wide and an inch deep
<sabdfl> upstreams tend to have a different view
<sabdfl> more specific to a single package or set of packages
<LaserJock> we touch many packages but don't spend a lot of time on any single package
<sabdfl> they are different, we need to appeal to both and balance them
<LaserJock> that's why we rely on Debian
<geser> what would be the requirements for an upstream to get upload rights? 
<ScottK> sabdfl: If you want to solve the having to wait for a busy volunteer MOTU to review a package problem, then perhaps you could fund a few hours of consulting per month for MOTUs to make sure they give it focus.   I guarantee you I will find time to do paying work. 
* ScottK is not MOTU, so it wouldn't affect me directly. 
<sabdfl> ScottK: different problem to solve
<tsmithe> nor I; but i strongly feel that there is a better way
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I don't know how to exactly say this so I'll just say it.  This seems like you are just trying to appease certian upstreams. 
<sabdfl> LaserJock: not at all
<ScottK> sabdfl: I don't think so.   I think that's the actual problem that exists.   To a large extent you are trying to solve the wrong problem right now. 
<Amaranth> i was going to be more blunt and replace 'certain upstreams' with 'beryl'
<sabdfl> i'm trying to make sure we have the most straightforward, sensible path-to-participation
<LaserJock> if an upstream want's to learn how to package we go out of our way to help them
<LaserJock> we have set up a system for feedback
<LaserJock> we have mentorship programs
<LaserJock> MOTU School
<sabdfl> Amaranth: beryl is important now, it has catalysed this discussion, but I specifically asked the MOTU council to think of how we could generalise this
<LaserJock> and we here much more than we should be
<sabdfl> LaserJock: and that's brilliant work, that has been very successful
<sabdfl> i'm not undermining that
<Amaranth> sabdfl: I don't see how beryl is any more important than, well, everything else
<sabdfl> but it's missing a vector
<LaserJock> I just don't see how we can make it any easier without comprimising quality
<sabdfl> Amaranth: that's why i asked the MOTU to generalise the concept
<sabdfl> so it applies to, well, everything else
<tsmithe> what other examples are pressing? 
<sabdfl> LaserJock: you said it yourself - a mile wide and an inch deep
<LaserJock> if an upstream can't make MOTU then maybe they shouldn't be uploading to Universe
<tsmithe> what is "everything else"? 
<sabdfl> what if someone is knocking on the door saying "look, in this package, i can give you 10 feet deep"
<tsmithe> everything where it isn't working now? 
<sabdfl> we should not tell that person "you must become a generalist"
<LaserJock> we don't though
<jdong> tsmithe: every piece of software that doesn't have a Ubuntu package. 
<sabdfl> we should tell that person "ok, but you have to fit in here"
<Seveas> sabdfl, isn't REVU intended for that? 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we have MOTU Teams for instance
<tsmithe> jdong, well - are they "pressing", as i said? 
<sabdfl> Seveas: it does help, but it's not the whole story, please read scrollback
<Amaranth> all the packages i care about are in main so... :)
<tsmithe> jdong, if they aren't then i don't think they count under that
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we don't exclude working on just one or two packages, but we just haven't had a lot of interest, IMO
<jdong> tsmithe: I've been pressing for prevu
<LaserJock> most upstreams don't want to maintain their packages
<jdong> tsmithe: less pressing right now because of time constraints and just being fed up
<LaserJock> that's what the distro devs are for
<tsmithe> jdong, and it's not in?  i'm supprised
<sabdfl> it's like this.  when you set up a social process, it evolves to suit a certain way of thinking
<tsmithe> *surprised
<sabdfl> but it can often be bad for people who have a different way of thinking
<jdong> tsmithe: a half-baked got in only after insistence, but getting newer versions in is less fun than a frontal lobotomy. 
<sabdfl> i'm saying that we need to consider that perhaps our processes could be broadened
<sabdfl> lots of distributions make this mistake
<sabdfl> they think they are more important than upstream, because they are closer to the user
<sabdfl> thats only half the picture
<ScottK> And when you set up social processes, you have to consider change very carefully or you will inadvertently break them. 
<sabdfl> that's why we invite lots of upstreams to our conferences, and sponsor them
<sabdfl> ScottK: that's true
<sabdfl> hence this discussion
<Amaranth> sabdfl: i don't think anyone here feels that
<sabdfl> Amaranth: feels what? 
<Amaranth> that we're more important than upstream
<sabdfl> well, it would never be expressed that way
<sabdfl> but consider carefully the example here
<LaserJock> what example though? 
<Amaranth> beryl? 
<sabdfl> we said "your packages are not good enough, we'll help you make them better, but we won't publish them till they are perfect"
<LaserJock> we did a lot of work to help the beryl people
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we did not!!! 
<ScottK> sabdfl: This doesn't particularly feel like discussion to me.   You know what you want and you are trying to talk everyone into it even though the bulk of those present and invovled in the day to day work are disagreeing with you. 
<sabdfl> that was perfectly reasonable
<sabdfl> we have high standards
<Amaranth> the packages weren't even the problem most of the time
<Amaranth> so that's a bad example
<sabdfl> shipping feisty without beryl 0.2 in universe would have been a failure *somewhere*, no? 
<Amaranth> sure, on their part
<LaserJock> I suppose
<sabdfl> so let's be open minded enough to figure out where, and how
<sistpoty> no... we imo got much bigger problesm
<Amaranth> they're just fixing the problem today
<Amaranth> they were told it was a problem a long time ago
<jdong> sabdfl: I have to agree with all of the MOTU's here that cite resource shortage in the MOTU world
<LaserJock> sabdfl: like I said, if you want beryl in Universe then request a Freeze exception, not go around the processes
<sabdfl> jdong: getting more upstream involvement will be one way to increase the total resources covering these bases
<jdong> sabdfl: I have to say that more than half of the bugs that I am told to reject in Backports and sent to MOTU never get a single look
<sistpoty> yep... I'm not quite sure where we stand on bug triaging, but iirc we've got ~10k bugs to deal with
<sabdfl> LaserJock: i think you are missing my point
<tsmithe> i obviously am too
<sabdfl> yes, we can fix the symptoms
<jdong> sistpoty: yeah, the # is large, and the # of confirmed ones are large too. 
* ScottK too. 
<sabdfl> we can make a freeze exeption for beryl
<sabdfl> that is the *symptom* of the problem
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and perhaps you are missing mine.  We helped them, and we uploaded their packages
<sabdfl> a better description of the problem is "communication breakdown", right? 
<LaserJock> we are willing to sponsor them
<pef> hello
<Amaranth> sabdfl: I don't see how it's communication breakdown
<sabdfl> but the real problem is that we did not provide a forum in which they wanted to participate
<sabdfl> so they went to another forum
<Amaranth> sabdfl: they were told of a problem, they never fixed it
<sabdfl> so communications broke down
<ajmitch> sabdfl: if by communications problems you mean licensing issues upstream, which were being resolved by the 0.2.0 rleease
<tsmithe> well, no.  they just didn't do the required
<Amaranth> ajmitch: 0.2.0 didn't fix it
<sabdfl> Amaranth: once they left this forum, there was no longer any pressure to fix it
<ajmitch> Amaranth: unfortunate
<Amaranth> ajmitch: 0.2.1 might
<LaserJock> sabdfl: who left this form? 
<geser> how would upload rights help beryl people their packages accepted by archive admins? 
<sabdfl> keep people in your forum, and you get to influence their quality directly
<tsmithe> sabdfl, shouldn't that pressure be from self-motivation? 
<Amaranth> sabdfl: They weren't here but it was still a goal
<sabdfl> tsmithe: group motivation is more consistent
<sistpoty> sabdfl: the real problem is that you want beryl in at all costs.  and now blame motus to not spending every free minute to get it in or have wrong processes, while in reality we're just trying to take care for 9000+ packages with 20 active persons
<ajmitch> sabdfl: just how could we have made upstream fix up their issues much faster? 
<tsmithe> any rejected packages of mine, i fixed and tried again
<tsmithe> i wanted them in
<tsmithe> i tried hard
<Amaranth> sabdfl: The goal all along was getting their 0.2.0 release into fiesty
<ScottK> sabdfl: The one place you absolutely cannot affort to compromise on correctness is licensing and that was the core issue here. 
<sabdfl> sistpoty: that's totally inaccurate
<tsmithe> and was not discouraged. 
<lupine_85> 0.2.1 is out :)
<sabdfl> yay! 
<lupine_85> ok.  So do we want these turning into packages and putting on revu? 
<sabdfl> see how much faster we get things done when we have everyone in the same room? 
<ScottK> sabdfl: What sistpoty said may be inaccurate, but that's sure how it looks from the sidelines. 
<lupine_85> heh
<sabdfl> lupine_85: yes please
<sistpoty> at least from the recent discussion
<sabdfl> i'll stay here till we clear this up
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they've mostly been all in the samre room
<sabdfl> LaserJock: no - the packaging discussion moved to another forum
<Amaranth> sabdfl: They gave up when the FF deadline passed and 0.2.0 wasn't out yet
<sabdfl> we gave up
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I'm not sure how we can help it if people move discussion elsewhere
<ajmitch> sabdfl: you mean we, the MOTUs gave up
<Amaranth> sabdfl: If they'd met _their_ deadline they would have gotten the kick in the pants needed
<lupine_85> Amaranth: no... we relaxed our schedule when the spec was deferred
<sabdfl> LaserJock: we can figure out how to make space for those discussions here
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and how are we not doing that now? 
<sabdfl> Amaranth: listen to yourself
<sabdfl> "they would have gotten the kick in the pants needed"
<sabdfl> that's terribly arrogant, and not what i want from the ubuntu community
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we uploaded the packages!!  they didn't give use new ones to upload! 
<LaserJock> how is that our fault?! 
<Amaranth> sabdfl: Me telling them "please fix your license issues" didn't do it, the debian packager telling them "please fix your license issues" didn't do it
<sabdfl> LaserJock: relax, i'm not criticising you or the MOTU team
<sabdfl> i'm criticising OUR thinking, OUR processes
<ajmitch> sabdfl: saying that we gave up is close to it
<sabdfl> do you know how universe got created? 
<sabdfl> *we*, me included
<Toadstool> big bang? 
<sabdfl> more or less
<ajmitch> creation ex nihilo? 
<LaserJock> ok
<sabdfl> just like this discussion :-)
<sabdfl> can i tell the story? 
<sistpoty> sure, we're listening ;)
* ajmitch was there near the beginning
<sabdfl> when i first proposed universe, the core devs were opposed
<sabdfl> they wanted to stay focused on main, keep super-high standards there, not be distracted
<sabdfl> and i felt we need a forum for all the pieces that didn't quite fit into main
<sabdfl> we needed a place for people who were learning, and people who had unique needs
<sabdfl> that's where innovation, great ideas could be nurtured
<sabdfl> so we made universe
<sabdfl> it was a way to create "blue sky" in the project
<sabdfl> main is hard-core
<sabdfl> an update in main goes to gazillions of computers
<sabdfl> very little room for error
<sabdfl> now universe, and MOTU, are a huge success
<sistpoty> thanks :)
<sabdfl> this is where a lot of the interesting stuff happens
<sabdfl> xubuntu started here
<sabdfl> kubuntu started here
<sabdfl> edubuntu
<sabdfl> innovation is very hard to schedule, to plan, to predict
<sabdfl> you have to create a place where magic can happen
<sabdfl> and that's what i think universe is
<sabdfl> now, i'm proposing we look beyond that
<ajmitch> and we also have to have a place where quality is maintained
<sabdfl> ajmitch: yes, i was never suggesting that a shoddy package from an upstream should "just get uploaded"
<sabdfl> there are two scenarios
<ajmitch> we often have to try & balance getting the latest crack in compared to what it may break
<Toadstool> sabdfl: are you somehow implying that we have set too high quality standards for universe? 
<sabdfl>  (1) the upstream doesn't have a package, so they need to develop one
<ajmitch> or what meager resources should be allocated to
<sabdfl> in this case, the initial versions can't obviously just be uploaded
<sabdfl> this is where beryl started, right? 
<sabdfl> but we should have *a space* for them
<sabdfl> like -experimental
<sabdfl> or a MOTU PPA
<sistpoty> actually it looks like we've gotten more "professional" for universe in recent times... if I compare breezy release (trying to fix bugs e.g. with new upstream versions until the latest days) and universe now with all its rules, a little bit of the magic seemed to have vanished
<Lure> sabdfl: +1 on need for -experimental, but is universi it? 
<sabdfl> so they stay here, in this forum, listening and learning and fixing issues
<sabdfl> Lure: no, universe itself is not it
<sabdfl> but the MOTU *community* is it
<LaserJock> ok
<sabdfl> over time, those packages mature, and asap they go into universe
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody is opposed to PPA or an -experimental
<LaserJock> but right now those are vaporware for us practically
<Lure> LaserJock: exactly, it would help kde4 and similar projects 
<LaserJock> so we do the best we can with the resources we have
<sabdfl> look at beryl - they set up their own repo and when the packages reached the point where they could go into universe, we weren't around to notice
<sistpoty> no, actually I've been thinking about experimental myself already, that'd defintely be a great thing to have
<sistpoty> (what was my no aimed at?) 
<lupine_85> Question -- should there be a blank changelog for these new packages? 
<sabdfl> ok, i thinkwe are all coming round to the idea of a place to host packages-under-development
<LaserJock> sabdfl: this is were I disagree though, we uploaded their packages
<lupine_85> Or should it be a continuation of the currently-existing changelog? 
<sabdfl> what's important to me, is that this remains the FORUM for those developers and users
<Lure> sabdfl: but accepting them in universe with license issues is not an option, agreed? 
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: i would start clean but im no motu
<sabdfl> Lure: agreed
<sabdfl> but if they were working here, those issues would be fixed much faster
<lupine_85> gnomefreak: that was my thought too
<lupine_85> 0.2.1-0ubuntu1, I assume
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and they were welcome to
<sabdfl> look how fast lupine_85 is working through the issues now we have this conversation in this forum
<geser> lupine_85: yes
<tsmithe> lupine_85, yep
<sabdfl> my point is that we should not say "go elsewhere till you solve those issues"
* ajmitch is going to leave, see you tomorrow
<sistpoty> cya ajmitch
<sabdfl> we should say "stay here, we will help you fix these issues"
<tsmithe> bye ajmitch 
<Toadstool> cya ajmitch 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: yes, because you went to #beryl-dev and got them excited
<Lutin> bye ajmitch 
<sabdfl> cheers ajmitch
<joejaxx> Good Day ajmitch 
<stgraber> I think -experimental is an intersting idea to test packages, but that would also mean some people will have to sort what will be uploaded (to avoid big conflicts) and then decide what package will or won't be uploaded to universe, that means more work and still not enough people to work on that
<tsmithe> sabdfl, i always got the impression that that was what was said
<sabdfl> so that's the first case - brand new packages, brand new devs
<mr_pouit> bye ajmitch 
<sabdfl> tsmithe: it's subtle, but important, the difference
<sabdfl> the second case is different
<tsmithe> i've always been very well accomodated here... :)
* tsmithe listens
<sabdfl> in the second case we HAVE packages, but the usptreams want to improve them
<sabdfl> i think we should have an efficient way to accommodate that
<tsmithe> makes sense
* gnomefreak working on java,firefox, thunderbird but if its just like building those let me know lupine_85 and i will give you a hand (neither of us can upload) 
<sabdfl> designed to provide quick entry and access to that limited subset of universe (the packages are already in universe rememeber)
<sabdfl> but also designed to socialise that upstream to ubuntu's timing, processes, language, policy, goals etc
<lupine_85> gnomefreak: it's just gruntwork right now ;)
<lupine_85> but thanks for the offer
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: are you able to carry over the rules file? 
<lupine_85> yeah
<sistpoty> and ideally integrate upstream to become a full-fledged motu :)
<gnomefreak> cool :)
<sabdfl> sistpoty: exactly! 
<sabdfl> it's an onramp
<sabdfl> but it's an onramp designed from upstreams perspective, not from -core-dev's perspective
<LaserJock> sabdfl: ok, but what are you exactly suggesting?  I don't see where we are really not doing this in a pretty painless way
<tsmithe> i'm unfamiliar with the term "onramp".  is it like a "ramp" "on"?  a boost into the community? 
<sabdfl> tsmithe: yes - like the onramp to a highway
<lupine_85> my 2p is that I can't really see a point where Ubuntu's procedures failed
<LaserJock> we have REVU sprints
<sistpoty> well, restricted upload rights can really be a tool to make this happen, but as I wrote in the last mail it won't automatically do it per se. 
<sabdfl> lupine_85: what if we'd offered you an archive to publish those packages in before they were ready? 
<sabdfl> and kept going with the conversation here? 
<tsmithe> sabdfl, ah.  i've never come across that in england, although i'm unable to drive due to my age.  thanks. 
<ScottK> sabdfl: It sounds to me like you are still caught up with the idea that the Beryl devs were pushed away and all the MOTUs that have spoken say it didn't happen. 
<lupine_85> sabdfl: then I'd probably have accepted it with great thanks :), but that's communication again
<lupine_85> if someone had asked me to work on this at 0.1.3, I would have
<sabdfl> ScottK: the facts are that the beryl devs setup their own repo, and the conversation moved away
<lupine_85> If I didn't think it was being taken care of, I would have worked on it
<sabdfl> then the communication broke down
<tsmithe> well... there was already the repo
<sabdfl> ScottK: do you disagree with the facts? 
<ScottK> sabdfl: But you make the (IMO flawed) assumption that it's because of a process failure here. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I honestly think it was a beryl communication problem
<tsmithe> perhaps the motivation wasn't there as that was easy enough? 
<lupine_85> yeah, the communication broke down.. but I don't think it was ubuntu's fault
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they didn't seem to know who was packaging what
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I specifically tried to help direct communication several times
<ScottK> sabdfl: Should MOTU have accepted packages with flawed licensing? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe request-for-packages bugs can even solve this *g+
<sabdfl> LaserJock: they are upstream, we should always encourage them to take the lead
<sabdfl> ScottK: please read what i said on that earlier
<LaserJock> sabdfl: !!!! 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: that's what we've been saying
<_MMA_> If for now the Ubuntu Studio project considers itself a upstream shouldn't we recognize that its up to us to get our packages into Universe and work within the system?  As its lead I know the importance of maintaining a presence here.  Shouldnt other projects as well? 
<sabdfl> well, they came to believe that someone in motu was packaging it
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and when we let them take the lead and they didn't respond it suddenly becomes our fault? 
<ScottK> sabdfl: I've read every word you've written here and I think that you are the one that's not listening. 
<sabdfl> i think that clearly suggests they were not encouraged to take the lead ;-)
<ScottK> MOTU can lead the horse to water, but they can't make him drink.   That's the fundamental issue. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: that was after they didn't respond and we told them who was working on it (imbrandon) and that he would probably like to work on them
<sabdfl> our process could not accommodate them here till their packages were ready for inclusion
<sabdfl> they didn't respond because they were too busy getting on with it
<LaserJock> well I don't think we can help that
<sabdfl> socially, once you have set yourself up, why should you respond to some other community? 
<sabdfl> this is one of the profound issues in free software
<LaserJock> if upstreams don't want to work with us there isn't a ton we can do about it
<sabdfl> communities are by nature inward-looking
<LaserJock> we can't be babysitting thousands of upstreams
<ScottK> sabdfl: The only thing that wasnt' accomodated was the ability to build binary packages.   Giving them limited upload rights with packages that have legal issues is not the right way to solve that problem. 
<Toadstool> sabdfl: we can barely babysit ourselves ;)
<sabdfl> ScottK: i will answer this again, only once
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I agree that we would like to have a repo for this stuff
<LaserJock> sabdfl: but that's on your end
<sabdfl> new packages, that still have licencing issues are NOT to be "fast-tracked"
<sabdfl> we are to create a place here, where those packages, can mature
<ScottK> OK, but that was the core issue with the packages here, so I don't understand. 
<sistpoty> I guess the fact that we have more ppl.  that *want* to work with us and follow the procedures makes it easier for us to not encourage ppl.  if someone turns away there are plenty other to turn to them
<sabdfl> the fast-track, limited upload privileges are for cases where we already have a package in the archive
<sabdfl> and we have an upstream who wants to help improve that package
<LaserJock> sabdfl: ok, then give us community buildds and repo space
<sabdfl> LaserJock: i will do exactly that, will you be ready for it? 
<LaserJock> yes
<sabdfl> cool - then we are on the same page
<LaserJock> we've been screwing around making our won
<LaserJock> because we've been waiting on PPA
<LaserJock> we've been working on this since Paris
<sabdfl> me too - man, i have been waaaiiiiting for ppa's
<gnomefreak> jdong: that was almost too easy
<jdong> gnomefreak: mmm? 
<sabdfl> ScottK: did i answer your question? 
<gnomefreak> jdong: the java6build
<lupine_85> Do you guys want -dbg packages, by the way? 
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: please
<lupine_85> OK
<jdong> gnomefreak: yeah java's one of the easier backports
<gnomefreak> ah ok ill have testers to test it on edgy while im not on tomorrow im uploading now 
<ScottK> sabdfl: Not really.   You say you don't want packages with licensing problems in the archive and that Beryl should have gotten in sooner, but it had licensing problems until today.   Those appear to be contradictory positions to me. 
* gnomefreak really needs to get a repo :(
<sabdfl> ScottK: why are the licensing problems being fixed *today*? 
<LaserJock> because Beryl didn't do it before
<sabdfl> but why today? 
<ScottK> From what I've been reading that's why they just released 0.2.1. 
<sistpoty> because the 17th of march is from now on called beryl day :)
<LaserJock> sabdfl: because you went over there and said you'd put them in
<ScottK> Ah.   Because you jumped in and gave them a kick in the pants. 
<sabdfl> oh, please stop talking as if everyone else needs a kick
<sabdfl> in life, it's generally more successful to assume that it's NOT someone else's fault
<ScottK> There was no process barrier to them being here sooner. 
<LaserJock> well, sometimes we all need some motivation, kick is not the best term ;-)
<lupine_85> it was less a kick and more someone actually telling me it was wanted :).  
<sabdfl> keeping people here, in this forum, is the best way to make sure that the things WE care about get done
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they are they authors, I can't change the license for them
<sabdfl> like licensing, packaging quality, etc
<stgraber> jdong: While you are talking about backport, I had bug 68818 and tried fixing it with simply building Feisty package on Edgy, it worked perfectly, is there a way you make a backport to fix that really really annoying bug (unable to correctly use squid as transparent proxy (no cache is not a solution for me)) ? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68818 in squid "squid transparent proxy is broken" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/68818
<lupine_85> it was sabdfl, but TBH I'd have given response to anyone
<LaserJock> lupine_85: why did you think it wasn't wanted? 
<stgraber> jdong: I didn't see a proper patch upstream else than, fixed in next release please upgrade
<sabdfl> LaserJock: they won't change it till they realise that someone cares
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we didn't tell them we didn't
<sabdfl> and if they are there, and we are here, there's no opportunity to realise that
<jdong> stgraber: I am not supposed to use backports to fix bugs; I'm supposed to reassign them to MOTU
<gnomefreak> i thought it was a FTB thats why it was stopped
<sabdfl> LaserJock: if they were here every day, we would have
<jdong> stgraber: which... er... basically means throwing the bug out :(
<lupine_85> well, until UVF I thought someone in ubuntu was dealing with it (you told us otherwise it seems, but no-one told me - beryl comm problem ;) 0
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they are here quite often
<Lutin> I wonder how someone providing software can not care about its license
<sabdfl> Lutin: upstreams often just want to hack
<sistpoty> sabdfl: but honestly I guess it was also a little bit of a problem how much we cared about it.  it maybe might have helped to just come in and say "make this top priority" earlier on
<lupine_85> post-UVF, I didn't bother because I thought it wouldn't get it
<sabdfl> they have their own repos, they are publishing the packages, users are getting them, what's the problem? 
<jdong> stgraber: looks like one should diff RELEASE1 and RELEASE2 and isolate the patch, SRU it
<sabdfl> sistpoty: someone out there cares about almost any little packages
<LaserJock> sabdfl: the problem is they didn't get them to us, and we can't babysit all upstreams
<ScottK> sabdfl: I think every upstream knows they get more exposure if they are acutally in the distro.   That's why I showed up. 
<sabdfl> this conversation is just catalysed because i happen to care about beryl, but the really important thing is to get a good GENERAL framework, that applies to all packages
<LaserJock> I mean, I talke to PriceChild all the time
<LaserJock> he never said anything
<LaserJock> he's in here quite often
<sistpoty> sabdfl: yep, but we as motus obviously didn't make it a priority
<sabdfl> and he could say you never said anything
<stgraber> jdong: ok, I guess it will more likely end with a : fixed in Feisty please upgrade once Feisty will be released
<lupine_85> Question.  Can one have two Maintainers: fields in a control file? 
<LaserJock> I've seen lupine_85 a fair amout
<sabdfl> it's easy for both sides to say "those guys don't get it"
<jdong> stgraber: not necessarily; someone just has to isolate the patch that fixes the problem
<sabdfl> and i'm saying that for MOTU, figuring out how to be a really rocking attractive place for upstreams is a GREAT way to expand the poolof talent here
<LaserJock> lupine_85: you can have Uploaders: or a mailing list or something for Maintainer:
<lupine_85> ok
* lupine_85 leaves as-is for now
<sabdfl> i'm very glad to be having this
<jdong> stgraber: basically what James Troup said in comment #2
<ScottK> sabdfl: I think access to binary builds before it's accepted in the archive is a lot more important to making MOTU more attractive than fast tracking people. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I agree, we need to be as helpful as possible
<lupine_85> so.  Right now I've left blurfx in because I really can't see an issue with it.  And I've taken out beryl-xgl because that apparently has to be in a separate source package
<ScottK> LaserJock: My experience is that you guys have been extraordinarily helpful. 
<sabdfl> ScottK: they are both important, please look at the difference between those two, very different, scenarios
<lupine_85> sources to all binaries are in the tarballs
* lupine_85 notes the irony of building packages for feisty in etch
<sabdfl> ScottK: here's a COMMON scenario
<LaserJock> lupine_85: we do that sort of thing a lot ;-)
<lupine_85> :)
<sabdfl> you are an upstream dev of package foo
<sabdfl> you keep getting bug reports from users of the foo package in ubuntu
<stgraber> jdong: ok, I'm having a look at both version and trying to find the part of the code fixing it, if that's easy I'll do that myself otherwise I'll let anyone more qualified do it :)
<sabdfl> you realise that's because a patch was not applied, you know the patch
<sabdfl> you come over here, and get told that you need to become a generalist before you can fix little things like that
<sabdfl> so...
<LaserJock> sabdfl: no, you aren't told that
<jdong> stgraber: I don't think it will be difficult to isolate -- squid handles their stable releases pretty conservatively
<sabdfl> you go away and don't bother to come back
<stgraber> jdong: fine :)
<sabdfl> then you see mr shuttleworth at a conference, and harangue him
<sabdfl> i have been so harangued :-)
<sistpoty> sabdfl: I guess I really see a 3rd problem with it.  we motu's don't give feature wishes top priorities, as we try to keep the archive sane so far.  would it be helpful somehow assign specs to motu? 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: you would be told to put your patch on the bug report and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team
<lupine_85> hmm... I need to sign these packages before I upload them.  Does the signing key need to be the same as the Maintainer: ? 
<ScottK> Actually you get told to attach a debdiff to the bug report and subscribe UUS to the bug and it'll get taken care of (usually in less the 24 hours). 
<sabdfl> ScottK: that's great, but i think it can get a little better
<Lure> lupine_85: no
<jdong> stgraber: yeah if you find it, attach it to the bug report, and that should boost the process
<lupine_85> ScottK: except, when I gave a debdiff to the only package I've uploaded so far, it's still not been looked at AFAIK ;)
<lupine_85> Lure: excellent
<sabdfl> we want to be the best in the planet, right? 
<lupine_85> but it was a PITA package anyway
<sabdfl> nobody should expect that to be easy :-)
<ScottK> lupine_85: Did you come here and ask someone to look at it? 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: exactly, including upstream
<jdong> lupine_85: PITA packages tend to get ignored :)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<lupine_85> TBH it's so long I forget 
<sabdfl> now if only we could get upstreams to tend to their PITA packages ;-)
<danohuiginn> ScottK: expecting people to ask for help on IRC every time they want to upload a patch isn't ideal
<ScottK> So far I don't think I've had to ask more than twice here to get a bugfix uploaded. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they can do that, but most don't want to
<ScottK> danohuiginn: True, but usually I don't even have to do that. 
<sabdfl> ScottK: your packages may well be things that lots of motu's were keen on
<sabdfl> what about the packages that only a small group of people care about? 
<jdong> ScottK: I think I asked in excess of 30 times to get someone to look at xserver-xgl. 
<ScottK> sabdfl: Actually my stuff hits a VERY small niche. 
<jdong> ScottK: there is a pretty wide variance in response times
<sabdfl> we tend to ignore problems in places we don't care about
<sabdfl> we work very hard on the things we do care about, to make them perfect
<sabdfl> then we think things are perfect
<jdong> sabdfl: yeah, so I've noticed :)
<ScottK> It is true that the response level varies, but that's a MOTU resource issue and not a process issue. 
<sabdfl> because everything WE care about is perfect
<jdong> ScottK: it's not JUST a resource issue -- resources are being allocated unevenly too. 
<LaserJock> I care about Universe and having a good quality repo
<sabdfl> ScottK: well, does the MOTU process every item sequentially, first in, first out? 
<sabdfl> guaranteed? 
<ScottK> Of course not. 
<LaserJock> usually easy ones first, I'd think
<sistpoty> well, I care for some packages which I guess noone has ever used yet (including me). 
<LaserJock> depends on the MOTU
<sabdfl> ScottK: ok.  in fact, MOTU's process things based on their interest
<sabdfl> which could be because they think its important
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I don't think that's really true
<sabdfl> or because its cool
<jdong> LaserJock: personal interest -> easiest -> ...
<sabdfl> or because lots of people are asking
<sistpoty> no, also in how tough is it to handle,
<geser> universe sponsors have nearly fixed 1000 bugs
<sabdfl> or because its low-haning fruit - easy
<danohuiginn> if people don't subscribe UUS to their patches (it's not well documented) they can sit around unexamined for a LONG time
<sabdfl> so
<sabdfl> i think we must accept that some upstream could come along and put something in the queue and have it not addressed for a long time
<sabdfl> weve had a couple examples mentioned just here
<LaserJock> sure, that happens
<ScottK> sabdfl: That's true. 
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> so it's wrong to say that it NEVER happens 
<jdong> sabdfl: and if that happens once, they are more likely to assume that is the usual case and give up on the MOTU path. 
<ScottK> But that doesn't mean that special process bypass rights is the solution. 
<sabdfl> jdong: yes
<stgraber> jdong: I've just found a patch in squid bugtracker (found bugid in the source code of Feisty's squid), I'm trying to apply it + pbuilding if it works I'll attach it to the bug
<ScottK> sabdfl: I wouldn't say that, just describing my experience. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: I dont' think anybody said it NEVER happens
<jdong> stgraber: excellent! 
<sistpoty> actually patches from upstream or DDs are given preference, at least from me
<sabdfl> ScottK: please understand, the special fast-track i'm looking for is very limited
<sabdfl>  (a) existing package in the archive
<sabdfl>  (b) good upstream
<sabdfl>  (c) not in a freeze period
<LaserJock> sabdfl: then in all honestly they should be MOTUs
<LaserJock> *honesty
<sabdfl> LaserJock: what if they don't care about any other packages? 
<LaserJock> fine
<jdong> LaserJock: their interest  is in their own packages
<sabdfl> motu's have a bigger picture view
<LaserJock> no necessarily
<jdong> LaserJock: not in caring for the entire Universe repo
<sistpoty> sabdfl: have you read my (truely bureucratic) proposal about it by mail yet? 
<sabdfl> sistpoty: no, have been trying to hack a little
<jdong> LaserJock: becoming MOTU seems to be the solution to everything around here. 
<jdong> and it's not. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: we don't force people to work on everything
<sabdfl> jdong: you're on the right track
<sistpoty> sabdfl: hehe, might be worth to take a glimpse to it... and I really should be hacking myself :(
<sabdfl> LaserJock: no we don't
<LaserJock> a MOTU can do whatever he/she wants
<jdong> LaserJock: the MOTU acceptance process basically does though, to some degree
<sabdfl> but we do have a generalist view
<LaserJock> jdong: no it doesn't
<LaserJock> I became a MOTU to work on science packages
<sabdfl> and we need to figure out how to accommodate specialists
<jdong> LaserJock: the first thing I was asked in TB was how many new packages have I uploaded to Universe...
<sabdfl> very narrow specialists
<jdong> LaserJock: and that's not what I am here to do. 
<jdong> I'd love to if I had more time
<LaserJock> it's about experience not specialization
<sabdfl> the hardest thing for a community to do is to ask itself "what am i NOT seeing"? 
<sabdfl> LaserJock: in some circumstances, experience with the upstream code is more important than experience across the whole distro
<LaserJock> if you have experience packaging and know how to play well in the Ubuntu community then you should be a MOTU
<sabdfl> *some* circumstances
<LaserJock> sabdfl: that's fine
<geser> jdong: I haven't uploaded even one NEW package till now
<LaserJock> we don't have ANY requirement on breadth of packaging
<LaserJock> we just require that we know what you're doing
<jdong> geser: I am going by my most recent rejection by the TB; personal experience. 
<danohuiginn> LaserJock: not everybody *wants* to be a MOTU
<sabdfl> what we need to do is figure out the circumstances where it does make sense to let someoen tweak a package of code they know very well
<jdong> geser: they specifically asked about _new_ packages
<LaserJock> danohuiginn: that's entirely ok too
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they can do that just fine through sponsorships
<sabdfl> LaserJock: imagine how that feels? 
<sabdfl> you have commit access upstream
<LaserJock> sabdfl: one thing that would help would be to have better specific mentorship/sponsorship
<sabdfl> and here you are being told to send a patch? 
<jdong> LaserJock: sponsorships have turnaround times that can often be sporadic. 
<ScottK> sabdfl: It's felt quite reasonable to me.   I know my code and they know Ubuntu and we work together. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: they need to get over it, IMO.  I don't have access to there code, even it I right stuff
<LaserJock> sabdfl: you *earn* access
<jdong> sabdfl: it's not only about the feel of being restricted; there's also practical latency issues with the sponsorship model
<LaserJock> jdong: fine, then lets fix sponsorships
<sabdfl> LaserJock: if you have upstream commit, you have earned limited rights here, i believe
<jdong> LaserJock: that would be awesome. 
<ScottK> This has been an interesting discussion, but I have to go because I'm taking my family to the circus tonight.   I'll read the scrollback and enjoy later. 
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and that's the case
<sabdfl> jdong:agreed re latency
<LaserJock> so ...
<sabdfl> ScottK: enjoy! 
<LaserJock> lets give interested upstreams dedicated sponsors
<sistpoty> sabdfl: you'll still need to balance it because some upstreams don't know much about packaging... so imo sponsorship/mentorship should be the *starting* point
<LaserJock> if the upstream figures things out give them MOTUship
<LaserJock> there's nothing "fast-track" about it really
<LaserJock> we aren't making exceptions
<LaserJock> creating more complications
<LaserJock> lets just build better relationships
<sabdfl> motu-ship would mean "upload anywhere"
<sabdfl> and that might not be appropriate
<LaserJock> but in all honestly I don't think they should be uploading their specific package then either
<LaserJock> we don't really require *that* much
<sistpoty> interesting... the more i try to think about the problem, the more I like what I already wrote in the last mail *g*
<LaserJock> if they know their source and their packaging
<geser> you'll need mentoring/sponsorship at the beginning and if they're experienced enough to get restricted upload rights they're half through MOTUship
<LaserJock> good enough to where sponsors no longer worry about them
<LaserJock> then I'm really pretty sure they could be MOTUs
<LaserJock> we have one of the most friendly dev communities I'm told
<LaserJock> we really really try hard to help people learn packaging
<LaserJock> we could always use more resources, of course
<LaserJock> if we had a repo
<Ash-Fox> LaserJock, I disagree -- I've asked questions for many many months here and never got a answer to them. 
<LaserJock> Ash-Fox: were you turned away though? 
<sistpoty> LaserJock: you should be working on cloning people... and then we could clone bddebian :P
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Ash-Fox> LaserJock, define 'turned away' ? 
<LaserJock> Ash-Fox: did you get a negative response
<Ash-Fox> Nope, but I don't get a negative response else-where either. 
<LaserJock> we can't be here all the time
<jdong> LaserJock: turned away and <silent> serve the same purpose
<LaserJock> well, but we try to be good about that
<sistpoty> which however very rarely happens
<sistpoty> (in response to jdong)
<jdong> LaserJock: my experience with u-u-s is that I still need to come in here to ask, several times, that someone look at it
<jdong> sistpoty: maybe I'm just unlucky then
<tsmithe> well, i'm going to crash now.  i hope this gets resolved.  night everyone.  keep hacking! 
<jdong> or take on the wrong projects
<Ash-Fox> I understand that, but I've spent months trying to answers on questions that just don't seem to be documented anywhere. 
<sistpoty> jdong: you take on the wrong projects ;)
<jdong> I love you guys, but there's times I get the feeling that I am being purposely ignored
<LaserJock> jdong: but you aren't helping
<jdong> LaserJock: oh so now I'm not helping? 
<LaserJock> jdong: yes
<Ademan> you guys are all quite involved in the packaging obviously, how does ubuntu work for ppc users?   Are there ppc versions of the binary packages?  or do they have to compile them themselves?  or what? 
<LaserJock> you've had many chances to become MOTU
<LaserJock> and you won't
<LaserJock> so I complain about us being to slow
<LaserJock> s/I/you/
<LaserJock> but won't help the problem
<jdong> LaserJock: so non-MOTU's now don't deserve to get timely responses on patches? 
<sistpoty> Ademan: ubuntu has ppc packages
<LaserJock> jdong: no, they do
<LaserJock> jdong: but I get irritated when you complain about stuff you have the power to help fix
<Ademan> sistpoty: for everything possible? ( ie everything we've got the source for?) 
<sistpoty> Ademan: not for everything, since some packages won't build on ppc (not very much though)
<jdong> LaserJock: ok, I see where you're coming from. 
<LaserJock> so yes, we could use faster response time
<LaserJock> s
<LaserJock> I think that can be said of any process
<LaserJock> we all want things NOW
<Ademan> sistpoty: really?  is that just stuff that has machine specific asm?  or what?  what could make a package be unavailable? 
<LaserJock> but fast tracking upstreams doesn't seem to help much, IMO
<jdong> LaserJock: I agree.  It might band-aid a few situations but doesn't solve the underlying issues
<LaserJock> we often don't get upstreams in here
<sistpoty> Ademan: asm, little/big endian probs, errors with types (e.g. int as pointer, however that's amd64 and not ppc iirc)
<LaserJock> and we even more rarely get upstreams that want to actively maintain their packages
<LaserJock> most just drop by for a bug patch or something
<LaserJock> or to notify us of some problem
<jdong> LaserJock: it seems much more often that they wanna stop by to give us a patch
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah, or point and yell at a bug report too :)
<sistpoty> Ademan: depending on a compiler which doesn't work on ppc, (iirc fpc-compiler had or has the problem)
<jdong> LaserJock: I guess I'm really guilty of that
<LaserJock> so perhaps if we had a special upstream program
<LaserJock> that would give them a single person as a point of contact
<Ademan> sistpoty: ah, since i'm rather unfamiliar with most of the source code around here, are most of the apps out there going to work on ppc?   i assume most codecs won't though...
<LaserJock> that's kinda give them an elevated priority
<LaserJock> we already try to do that somewhat informally
<jdong> Ademan: only 32-bit codecs will not work on ppc
<LaserJock> if I see an upstream putting in a patch
<jdong> Ademan: the full ffmpeg stack works on PPC
<LaserJock> I'll get to it sooner than I would normally
<jdong> Ademan: which will decode everything but Real Video 9
<sistpoty> Ademan: I'd say about 99% of the packages for which we have the source code will work.  For some stuff in universe (e.g. codecs) we don't have the source, so it won't work
<Ademan> jdong: cool, that's good to hear
<sistpoty> multiverse even
<jdong> Ademan: that's not to say they will work smoothly; the last time I messed with PPC there were some issues with optimizations
<jdong> Ademan: that is, turning on optimizations causes builds to fail, so to remedy we simply shut them off or reversed them. 
<lupine_85> 2 packages left...
<nixternal> LaserJock: http://chi.ubuntu-us.org <- updated, look familiar? :) 
<nixternal> talk about a pita
<lupine_85> can someone remind me how I sign packages, and how to upload to revu? ;) 
<Ademan> jdong: i assume that's a gcc problem, and didn't apple USE a modified gcc for Xcode?   (meaning that we're entitled to their source code and can use it to fix our broken ppc support?) 
<nixternal> lupine_85: debsign, or if you do dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k2e23434
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: i use -k<keyid>
<nixternal> the -k will sign using that key
<jdong> Ademan: I'm not sure about the total situation, but I encountered it a few times while working on x264
<nixternal> dput revu *source_changes
<gnomefreak> hmmm never used -S -sa
<lupine_85> heh, debsign it is :)
<Ademan> well thanks jdong and sistpoty   i'll let you guys get back to more important business
<jdong> Ademan: there's developers around here with ppc, but not nearly as many as i386, so most of the times the approach taken is one by a clueless i386 user who just does anything to get it to compile again :)
<nixternal> once I get a graphics card I will have a ppc dev box
<nixternal> or I could always donate this box to Ubuntu if needed because I doubt I will ever use it
<gnomefreak> i plan on running out to buy a ppc when they drop the price a few thousand dollars
<jdong> I don't think me having a ppc would make me more competent
<jdong> I don't think one learns Altivec thru osmosis :)
<gnomefreak> jdong: is there a limit on how long a package should be tested before backported? 
<jdong> gnomefreak: meh it really depends on when my homework is finished :)
<gnomefreak> lol :)
<jdong> gnomefreak: so I'm guilty of the whole poking acceleration effect too...
<gnomefreak> jdong: well i built them (i dont think they are right) but they are built and seem to work so far
<jdong> gnomefreak: this is sun java6 right? 
<gnomefreak> i didnt merge it i just carried it over
<gnomefreak> yes
* jdong oddly remembers backporting it
<jdong>  sun-java6 | 6-00-0ubuntu1~dapper1 | dapper-backports/multiverse | source
<jdong>  sun-java6 | 6-00-0ubuntu1~edgy1 | edgy-backports/multiverse | source
<gnomefreak> apt-get source * and than built source in edgy chroot
<jdong> sun-java6-plugin | 6-00-0ubuntu1~dapper1 | dapper-backports/multiverse | i386
<gnomefreak> already backported? 
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> looks like it
* gnomefreak smacks self
* jdong hugs gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> let me see :)
* gnomefreak hugs jdong 
<jdong> gnomefreak: you have no idea how many times I've done that myself....
<LaserJock> nixternal: well done site.  does seem a little familiar
<jdong> 8 hours into a backporting night "hmm, this looks familiar...."
<jdong> I look 1 comment above and I've already approved it
<jdong> *smack*
<gnomefreak> im looking i didnt have them enabled
<jdong> hehe
<gnomefreak> well just another package i have built gives me practice
<lupine_85> ok... they all build here, and I think they're all signed.  Now to try to upload...
<gnomefreak> do we just upload the .changes file? 
<gnomefreak> for revu
<lupine_85> I think the changes file pulls others
<lupine_85> it lists others inside it
<geser> yes, dput the changes files
<lupine_85> Aaand up they go
<lupine_85> where's revu hosted again? 
<lupine_85> it's been a while ;)
* gnomefreak needs to try that.  I just need something to fix first :)
<Fujitsu> lupine_85: Physically?  ServerPronto in the US. 
<lupine_85> I meant URL, but good to know :)
<Fujitsu> revu.tauware.de
<lupine_85> thanks
<lupine_85> eh, urgh.  It's uploading .debs as well - sorry
<geser> lupine_85: dput the next time only source .changes
<sistpoty> lupine_85: cancel the upload please, revu won't accept binary packages
<sistpoty> lupine_85: I'll clear the incoming dir then
<lupine_85> cancelled
<lupine_85> so do I rm the .deb files
<lupine_85> ? 
<Fujitsu> lupine_85: dput revu blah_source.changes
<gnomefreak> lupine_85: i dont think you can
<Fujitsu> The _source.changes bit is the important part. 
<gnomefreak> you can only upload
<lupine_85> Fujitsu: dput revu *changes is what I ran
<geser> lupine_85: you should have to changes files, one for the source and one for the binaries
<gnomefreak> i only get one
<lupine_85> I've got 11 packages here ;)
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: debuild -S will only give you one.  The -S means source-only. 
<gnomefreak> sun-java6_6-00-2-0ubuntu0.6.10_i386.changes
<sistpoty> lupine_85: cleared (I hope I got them all), please retry
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: i only ran dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -k<id> 
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: so i should use -S -sa? 
<Fujitsu> debuild -S -sa, yep. 
<lupine_85> ah, shaft.  Now it's complaining about the deb files being missing
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<sistpoty> lupine_85: please also try -S -sa to get a sourcepackage with full sources
<sistpoty> (to dpkg-buildpackage or debuild)
<lupine_85> So I take it I must rm everything, build with -S -sa -kwhatever, then upload
<gnomefreak> The Utnubu team would be more than
<gnomefreak> should that be ubuntu? 
<sistpoty> lupine_85: you needn't remove everything, but basically yes
<gnomefreak> revu fron tpage
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: /me looks
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: no, utnubu is the debian team that wants to incorporate packages from ubuntu to debian (it's ubuntu reversed)
<gnomefreak> ah
<lupine_85> ah, sweet... this is fast
<lupine_85> no building of binaries, and the for loop takes care of the rest :D
<jdong> haha
<gnomefreak> once uploaded to revu someone else takes it? 
<jdong> hear the distant groan of motu's everywhere :)
<lupine_85> Uploading via ftp aquamarine_0.2.1-0ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.'  during ftp transfer of aquamarine_0.2.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<lupine_85> the list of packages... aquamarine beryl-core beryl-manager beryl-plugins beryl-plugins-unsupported beryl-settings beryl-settings-bindings beryl-settings-simple emerald emerald-themes heliodor
<lupine_85> I think incoming needs cleaning more ;)
<sistpoty> lupine_85: ah, right I skipped aquamarine *g*
<lupine_85> :)
<geser> is there an order how to review it? 
<sistpoty> lupine_85: it's gone ;)
<lupine_85> yep, uploading proceeding apache :)
<stgraber> jdong: ok, I've done a patch and put it in the debian/patches stuff (dpatch), at least it applies and deapplies, the question now is will it fix the bug :)
<lupine_85> apace, rather
<lupine_85> so given that a load of packages here depend on a load of other packages... how does buildd cope with that? 
<gnomefreak> ha it works like a charm ty jdong :)
<lupine_85> packages uploaded
<sistpoty> lupine_85: a buildd will try to build them in order, however if one package's build dependencies cannot be met, it's retried later
<lupine_85> ok
<sistpoty> (however maybe LP is now smarter though I'm not sure)
<lupine_85> w00t http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4598
<gnomefreak> do you need account to upload to revu? 
<gnomefreak> other than LP
<geser> gnomefreak: you get only on your first upload
<geser> s/only/one/ :)
<gnomefreak> ah
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: no, revu will sync the keyring from LP every 24 hours, and that's all needed for uploading
<gnomefreak> all the packages ive been working on are in main :(
<gnomefreak> maybe ill look for an easy fix bug in package for multi or uni and fix it
<lupine_85> wooo, lintian warnings
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: have you subscribed ubuntu-main-sponsors? 
<geser> lupine_85: could you please create non-native packages?  one with a diff.gz
<sistpoty> lupine_85: you can ignore some, but not all ;)
<lupine_85> geser: I have no idea what that means
<gnomefreak> sistpoty: no asac does all the uploading for firefox stuff i just build for pratice nad some testing fixes
<sistpoty> gnomefreak: ah, k
<geser> lupine_85: there are two types of source packages: native and non-native
<sistpoty> lupine_85: you orig.tar.gz needs to be named name_<upstream-versoin>.orig.tar.gz, that's all
<lupine_85> ok... upstream version being 0.2.1?  Then re-upload? 
<geser> native consists only of a .dsc and a tar.gz are usually used for Debian/Ubuntu-specific packages
<sistpoty> lupine_85: yes... if you look at the .changes file, it should list 3 files one being the .orig.tar.gz, then you know you've done it right
<geser> non-native consists of .dsc, .diff.gz (all changes inkl.  debian dir) and .orig.tar.gz (unmodified upstream source)
<lupine_85> ok.. right now they're of the form aquamarine-0.2.1.tar.gz
<sistpoty> hehe, the old typo: "-" -> "_"
<sistpoty> bit mit quite a few times
<sistpoty> lupine_85: got that with the orig.tar.gz?  it should be aquamarine_0.2.1.orig.tar.gz
<lupine_85> sistpoty: yep
<sistpoty> :)
<lupine_85> doing it for 11 packages takes more time ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<lupine_85> any other changes before I reupload? 
<lupine_85> or should I just do it? 
<sistpoty> just spotted one thing with aquamarine... let me take a quick look again
<sistpoty> W: aquamarine source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/aquamarine.postinst
<lupine_85> mm, I fail at postinst scripts
<lupine_85> the same is in emerald, heliodor and beryl-core
<sistpoty> in the aquamarine.postinst, you should put in #DEBHELPER# at some place.  it will get replaced with whatever debhelper wants to put in there then
<lupine_85> I just want the postinst scripts in the .deb files (it's the only fugly hack I have, IMO - see the rules file)
<lupine_85> so is the lack of #DEBHELPER# why they weren't getting included in the .deb files? 
<geser> lupine_85: change the build-depend on libgl1-dev in beryl-core to libgl1-mesa-dev
<lupine_85> geser: hehe, ok.. I changed it to libgl1-dev for the benefit of a debian user
<sistpoty> lupine_85: not quite sure actually... but I assume it could be the case
<geser> libgl1-dev is a pure virtual package and you can't depend on as the buildds don't know which one to pick
<geser> lupine_85: but you can change it to libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl1-dev to serve also the debian users
<lupine_85> well, I'll remove fugly hack from the rules and hope for the best
<lupine_85> geser: ok, I'll do that
<geser> libgl-dev has no 1 in its name
<lupine_85> (fugly hack being in beryl-core/debian/rules: "install/beryl-core::" ;) )
<sistpoty> lupine_85: in what binary package do you want the postinst being put?  into beryl-core or into beryl? 
<lupine_85> sistpoty: beryl-core
<sistpoty> then it should actually work w.o the hack
<lupine_85> it registers the "beryl" binary with x-window-manager
<lupine_85> I hope it works :)
<stgraber> jdong: I've just finished doing the debdiff and testing it, it's attached to the bug report, what do I do next ? ( I don't really know how edgy-update works) (And as I said as comment I doubt my changelog is correct but I didn't know what else to put)
<jdong> stgraber: I'm also not 100% sure of the main SRU process...
<jdong> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<lupine_85> version bump? 
<geser> no need
<lupine_85> ok, so just upload...
<geser> yes
<sistpoty> (there's no binary from revu... so no need to bump the version)
<geser> a version is only need when it reached the archive
<geser> archive = the ubuntu archive
<lupine_85> ok
<lupine_85> ah, now it mentions the orig and a diff 
<geser> good
<lupine_85> hehe, though dput is saying the orig might not be needed ;)
<sistpoty> dput doesn't know about revu's missing features and about the ubuntu package naming scheme *g*
<lupine_85> :)
<lupine_85> ok, up 
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-18
<lupine_85> ha, all the important lintisn errors are gonr
<lupine_85> gone*
<sistpoty> :)
<geser> is there a consesus that .la files shouldn't be installed if .pc files exist? 
<sistpoty> geser: in the -dev package?  
<geser> yes
<sistpoty> well, imo they should be in the -dev package
<sistpoty> even if there is a .pc file
<sistpoty> though I'm not the worlds best library packager ;)
<geser> doesn't have .la files the problem that they can't differentiate between static and dynamic linking? 
* lupine_85 feels inferior for not knowing what a .pc is ;)
<sistpoty> actually I don't know much about libtool myself, so no idea
<sistpoty> lupine_85: you can determine compiler options for a library with pkg-config (if the .pc file is installed)
<sistpoty> (and linker options)
<geser> I remember some discussion on the debian-devel ML that you end up with to much libs because libtool links all lib in even if they are only need for static linking
<geser> and there was some slow start to not ship .la files
<sistpoty> well, having them won't hurt I'd say.  but I must admit that I didn't follow that discussion and might be wrong
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs. 
<sistpoty> geser: maybe you'll get better info in #ubuntu-devel?  
<sistpoty> hi TheMuso
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso
<lupine_85> hmm, looking at packages.ubuntu.com shows other packages with .ls... libacl1-dev, for instance
<lupine_85> erm, .la
<gnomefreak> we got rid of alot .la packages i thought
<lupine_85> pretty much all of kde3 seems to have them...
<geser> lupine_85: you can't them easily remove if other packages still need them for building
<lupine_85> ah, fair enough
<geser> but for new packages it should be easy
<lupine_85> do you want them taking out, theb? 
<lupine_85> then*
<lupine_85> it looks like just 5 packages
<lupine_85> (less if we only take out from ones that have a .pc /and/ a .la)
<geser> yes
<fdoving> you can't leave .la files out from kde modules. 
<geser> why? 
<lupine_85> so remove them from from... libberyldecoration-dev.install and libberylsettings-dev.install  ? 
<fdoving> because they provide essential information about library depends for the modules. 
<geser> doesn' kde use .pc files? 
<lupine_85> ok, reuploaded beryl-core
<lupine_85> now -dev packages only have .la /or/ .pc files
<geser> lupine_85: beryl-core has some duplicate depends, see my comment on revu
<fdoving> geser: http://api.kde.org/3.5-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdecore/html/classKLibLoader.html#a2 - info on .la files and kde. 
<lupine_85> hehe, I changed it from libgl-dev to libgl1-dev :p
<lupine_85> libgl-mesa-dev or libgl1-mesa-dev ? 
<sistpoty> lupine_85: libgl1-mesa-dev, libgl-mesa-dev doesn't exist in feisty
<lupine_85> ok
<geser> fdoving: thanks.  how does that work if .la files are in -dev packages which aren't normally installed? 
<fdoving> geser: they will need to be installed for kde to function properly then. 
<lupine_85> And the beryl-core is fine to Depend: libgl1 | libgl1-mesa-glx ? 
<fdoving> that's why the .la files in kde packages are not in -dev packages. 
<lupine_85> Also, I'm not sure what's meant by:-
<lupine_85> W: libberyldecoration0: non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libberyldecoration.so.0.0.0 usr/lib/libberyldecoration.so 
<sistpoty> lupine_85: it actually should determine this from the package it's linked against via ${shlibs:Depends}
<lupine_85> ok, so remove...
<geser> lupine_85: libberyldecoration.so.0.0.0 belongs into the -dev package, the lib package has only libberyldecoration.so.0
<lupine_85> ok... I should be ready to re-upload then :)
<sistpoty> ! library packaging guid
<sistpoty> ! library packaging guide
<sistpoty> grml... we need to teach this to ubotu *g*
<geser> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<lupine_85> done
<lupine_85> *click*
<jdong> sistpoty: grml.. I think you mean the explicative "sgml"
<sistpoty> jdong: no, I mean the distro, and what it's called after :PO
<sistpoty> -O
<jdong> ha
<jdong> is that thing still actively developed? 
<sistpoty> jdong: not quite sure... but it was at least half a year ago
<jdong> yeah, I remember its hotness back then
<lupine_85> eh... http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#id229676
<fdoving> ! library packaging guide is <reply> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<ubotu> I'll remember that, fdoving
<sistpoty> thanks fdoving
<geser> lupine_85: the copyright mentions a svn repository as download?  is that still valid?  no tar balls? 
<lupine_85> geser: good point.  releases.beryl-project.org is the correct URL, d'oh
<fdoving> ! lib-p-g is <alias> library packaging guide
<ubotu> I'll remember that, fdoving
<sistpoty> fdoving: btw.  can anyone register new stuff to ubotu like this? 
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: No, it's restricted to [insert almighty people here] . 
<sistpoty> ah, good... because I've only got silly things on my mind right now :)
<fdoving> no.  only the selected elite.  poke sev_eas for access to adding things. 
<fdoving> or if you don't want to, feel free to poke me with anything you want to add. 
<sistpoty> as stated, I'd only abuse ubotu for silly tings ;)
* Fujitsu remembers the old days when cafuego controlled ubotu, and everybody could do everything. 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I can add stuff to ubotu, just fyi
<sistpoty> ! bddebian
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bddebian - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<sistpoty> :P
<Fujitsu> That factoid used to be there, I'm sure. 
<sistpoty> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<sistpoty> hehe
<lupine_85> OK - remaking the packages
* lupine_85 really needs to get gpg-agent installed
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Thats so pointless. 
<TheMuso> :)
<sistpoty> *g*
<crimsun_> that page is so obviously correct
<sistpoty> hi crimsun_
<crimsun_> 'lo :)
<Fujitsu> Nice hostname, jdong_
<jdong_> haha thanks
<lupine_85> alrighty, that lot's uploaded
<jdong_> pfft and now it dies out. 
* lupine_85 wonders if PriceChild is reinstalling feisty the old-fashioned way
<lupine_85> which is to say, with a microscope and a magnet
<sistpoty> lol
<sistpoty> lupine_85: seems like you got some files mixed in libberyldecoration-dev and libberyldecoration0
<sistpoty> lupine_85: you could simply run lintian on the debs you've built, it will tell you
<lupine_85> sistpoty: that would make more sense than wasting your time with my n00bness ;)
<sistpoty> lupine_85: well, it's answers are just more accurate than mine ;)
<sistpoty> (most of the time)
<lupine_85> ok... it's complaining about xorg-dev, but not mentioning libberyldecoration*  at all
<sistpoty> hm...? 
<lupine_85> E: beryl-settings-bindings source: build-depends-on-x-metapackage build-depends: xorg-dev
<lupine_85> also W: aquamarine source: changelog-should-mention-nmu & W: aquamarine source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.2.1-0ubuntu1
<sistpoty> that's what it will tell you on the *source* package, but you can run it on the binary packages as well
<lupine_85> ah... I didn't build more binary packages yet
* lupine_85 does so
<sistpoty> lintian -iv libberyldecoration-dev_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb will show you s.th. 
<sistpoty> (it's basically just symlink and library shared object mixed between -dev and library package)
<geser> lupine_85: about the nmu version: you can ignore that one, lintian doesn't know about Ubuntu versioning
<sistpoty> geser: ah, seems like you were faster than me ;)
<sistpoty> (via revu)
<geser> lupine_85: you should depend on the X11 headers you need and not on the xorg-dev meta package
<lupine_85> sistpoty: ah, usr/lib/libberyldecoration.so.0.0.0 being in libberyldecoration0 has been fixed...
<sistpoty> :)
<lupine_85> geser: ok... let's see if I can find out what, precisely, it depends on :)
<lupine_85> it uses XKeysymToString and XStringToKeysym ... /me goes a-hunting
<geser> it's easier to check for #include and look up which package it is
<lupine_85> it's not written in C... not precisely
<lupine_85> libx11-dev by the looks of it
<geser> lupine_85: if it builds then you have all needed packages :)
<lupine_85> mm, true enough :) I guess I should look at using pbuilder or $something
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<lupine_85> ah, that's how to get a feisty one... thanks :)
* lupine_85 changes libberyldecoration*install back to how they were before...
<lupine_85> haha, but it can't satisfy the build deps for b-s-b etc...
<racarr> b-s-b should only need python-dev
<racarr> and python-pyre
<racarr> x
<crimsun_> err
<lupine_85> racarr: currently it build-depends on python-all-dev, python-pyrex, beryl-dev, libbs-dev, libpng12-dev, libx11-dev and libglib2.0-dev, + the usual build-tool related ones
<crimsun_> I _just_ got to Mark's email. 
<sistpoty> crimsun_: nice delay
<racarr> lupine_85: Mm
<lupine_85> racarr: you're positive it doesn't need most of those? ;) 
<crimsun_> considering I've been grounded for flight delays
<racarr> lupine_85: It does need the Beryl ones
<racarr> lupine_85: But the glib and libx11 and libpng ones don't make sense
<crimsun_> sistpoty: I am _extremely_ uncomfortable about this (and yes, I know they're present)
<lupine_85> racarr: yeah... they were suggested by someone on trac
<sistpoty> crimsun_: about what are you uncomfortable? 
<crimsun_> sistpoty: fast-track directly into uploading? 
<lupine_85> crimsun_: if it's fast-track, I'm about as uncomfortable about it as you, I'm betting ;)
<racarr> lupine_85: Try pbuilder...
<sistpoty> crimsun_: have you read the lengthy irc discussion from today? 
<lupine_85> racarr: I've tried it
<crimsun_> sistpoty: no.  I've been fighting for a flight home. 
<racarr> lupine_85: But the glib and x11 deps don't make sense
<racarr> if autogenerated code is using glib that's kind of silly
<lupine_85> it fails on the beryl deps because they're not in the ubuntu repo ;), and adding them manually to the aptcache doesn't work
<sistpoty> crimsun_: it's worth to read to get some picture
<crimsun_> sistpoty: this channel for 2007-03-17? 
<sistpoty> crimsun_: yep
<racarr> lupine_85: Mm
<racarr> lupine_85: chroot time? 
<racarr> as in a manually managed one
<lupine_85> heh; I guess
<sistpoty> crimsun_: starting somewhere 4:31 
<sistpoty> crimsun_: and restarting somewhere at/after 9...
<sistpoty> lupine_85: if you want to do it with pbuilder, you'd need to setup mini-dinstall or s.th. 
<lupine_85> eh... I'm about ready with a manual chroot
<sistpoty> that might be easier ;)
<sistpoty> though pbuilder + mini-dinstall is more comfortable once it's setup
<geser> lupine_85: you can also login into pbuilder, copy all need files and deps in and build there
<lupine_85> mmm... nearly there now :)
* lupine_85 has far too many mount --bind, though
<lupine_85> it builds, that's good enough for me
<lupine_85> I'll do another upload... give me a second
<lupine_85> 6 mins ! = 1 second, but upload done
<lupine_85> It addresses all concerns raised so far
<crimsun_> that entire irc log was extremely discouraging
<Fujitsu> Which, crimsun_? 
<crimsun_> yes, Mark pointed out (correctly) that there was a communication problem
<crimsun_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-motu-2007-03-17.html
<crimsun_> regarding the fast-tracking
<LaserJock> crimsun_: it was a fun morning that's for sure :-)
<crimsun_> #1.  Is it MOTU responsibility to find upstream packages to package? 
<crimsun_> #2.  Is the infrastructure in place _RIGHT NOW_ to provided limited uploads? 
<crimsun_> #3.  What's the point of MOTU if you have specific maintainers? 
<LaserJock> crimsun_: have you read the whole log? 
<crimsun_> we're struggling through something that leads down the road to a model similar to Fedora Core feeding RHEL/AS releases
<crimsun_> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> crimsun_: ok, cool.  it was probably a long read
<crimsun_> an extremely discouraging read, because many points are valid in bigger scope
<crimsun_> however, solving this one "problem" creates an entire class of different ones
<crimsun_> and trying to solve those different ones brings up resolutions very close to the model I just mentioned
<crimsun_> Yes, we want upstreams here. 
<crimsun_> No, we will NOT simply give upload privileges to upstream. 
* _MMA_ leaves note and runs away.  crimsun_: OT "las: ardour 2.0beta12 tarball now available.  this should be the minimum version that appears in US, please and pretty please"
<joejaxx> lol
<crimsun_> Stefan already outlined his preliminary points [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-March/001463.html ] . 
<crimsun_> I'm inclined to agree that we should have sponsors, but we need a team of sponsors IMO. 
<sistpoty> regarding to that mail from me? 
<crimsun_> (guess what?  we have a team.  It's called MOTU.) 
<crimsun_> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> well, what I'd like to ensure is that someone takes over responsibility both for working with/mentoring upstream and for saying upstream can upload on his own.  a team usually does this less good than a single person, though I might be wrong there
<crimsun_> Now - the real question here is why should I bother fixing bugs that distro users have?  Isn't it upstream's job?  If I'm upstream, do I even care that there are distros?  Why do distros exist? 
<crimsun_> sistpoty: yes, I'm inclined to agree that one dedicated person often works better than a team. 
<crimsun_> hence why single maintainers do make sense occasionally
<crimsun_> OTOH, there are _lots_ of upstreams and very few mentors
<sistpoty> right.  I don't think the team idea is bad in itself, it just has its own problems we need to look after ;)
<crimsun_> When we think about it, the number of mentors is just a handful
<crimsun_> we can't really count on core-dev, and several of us straddle that, too
<sistpoty> crimsun_: I don't think that the "why should upstream fix distro bugs" is a problem imo.  If I were upstream, I'd want my stuff being used and thus would care for my users where distros provide a large user base
<crimsun_> Ideally all upstreams can just dump into Ubuntu "experimental"
<crimsun_> that would resolve all problems of getting stuff "into" Ubuntu
<crimsun_> Upstream X uses LP-hosted bzr, etc. 
<LaserJock> crimsun_: so would PPA be that? 
<LaserJock> or do we need something else
<crimsun_> no idea, but I do think we need something "wide open", unfettered by whether you're an ubuntu-dev member
<geser> so we would get our packages from Ubuntu "experimental" instead of Debian? 
<LaserJock> geser: I would think Ubuntu "experimental" rather then REVU
<LaserJock> which we are already kinda moving away from anyway
<crimsun_> what LaserJock said
<LaserJock> basically like Debian Mentors have
<LaserJock> but probably less strict
<sistpoty> hm... I don't think just having experimental and let everyone dump in there will solve the problem.  it might imo soon degrade to a broken archive with *lots* of packages, so we'd still end up with the hard task to pick the few good ones
<LaserJock> and LP based
<crimsun_> sistpoty: that's the idea
<crimsun_> sistpoty: it _will_ break
<geser> so it's only used for initial packaging but not ongoing maintenance? 
<crimsun_> often horribly, but that's just fine.  That's the sandbox. 
<crimsun_> geser: initial and maintenance until entering non-experimental Ubuntu
<sistpoty> the problem is not the breakage per se, but how it will strengthen the ties to upstream.  just having lots of packages in there for sure won't be satisfying
<LaserJock> it would provide more testing perhaps
<crimsun_> sistpoty: no, but if have yet_another_commented_out repo by default in sources.list, it's at least one step closer
<sistpoty> that's true
<tonyyarusso> (Anybody here know why Feisty is making X eat processor like crazy recently?) 
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have an experiment
<sistpoty> but I don't think it will be the path ppl.  would go end ultimately end up as motus.  it would lack of interaction imo. 
* LaserJock must be a scientist
<LaserJock> I think PPA would be more helpful there
<LaserJock> and would also I think cover the "experimental" part
<LaserJock> sabdfl said is was maybe a couple months away
<crimsun_> sistpoty: I think to think that upstream maintainers intend to become MOTU is misled
<crimsun_> they (we?)  have a very focused perspective
<lupine_85> heh
<crimsun_> in this way, people intending to become MOTU are far more general
<lupine_85> I don't even use ubuntu as my distro ;)
<LaserJock> I think Mark's point was that they should be able to be active and their packages maintenance though
<sistpoty> tststs
<crimsun_> lupine_85: I don't either; I use Windows Vista. 
<LaserJock> I'm on OS X usually ;-)
<LaserJock> ah well
* crimsun_ chuckles
<lupine_85> 3vil traitors :p. At least I'm still on debian
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> I see maybe 2 points
<crimsun_> seriously, Mark did very much point out that we're missing that one crucial inroad
<crimsun_> we need to pull in upstream maintainers just as we need to pull in general maintainers
<LaserJock> 1) having an "experimental" repo that would be like REVU but have source and binary packages
<LaserJock> 2) PPA should allow upstreams to build and test their packages and get involved more
<crimsun_> fast-tracking directly into $development's universe, however, sounds perilous
<sistpoty> crimsun_: I fully agree on the fast-tracking
<LaserJock> and I think perhaps we are beyond that
<LaserJock> lupine_85's been working today on getting the packages ready for an exception
<LaserJock> at least that's what I think is going on
<crimsun_> I see no reason why beryl shouldn't be in feisty universe
<lupine_85> LaserJock: yeah, they're in revu.  Don't know if anything else needs doing to them
<crimsun_> is beryl ready for main? 
<crimsun_> that means core-dev is responsible for main
<crimsun_> s/main/beryl/
<LaserJock> I'm not sure Mark want's it in Main does he? 
<LaserJock> I thought he just said Universe
<crimsun_> do we then want upstreams uploading into main? 
<LaserJock> but maybe he only wants that to push it to main
<lupine_85> LaserJock: I think he does want it in main.  
<LaserJock> ah
<lupine_85> at some point
<LaserJock> for Feisty? 
<geser> universe now, main in feisty+1
<LaserJock> ok
<crimsun_> well, let's get beryl into feisty universe in the short run
<sistpoty> crimsun_: does that mean FFe granted?  :P
<TheMuso> For the record, I am not comfortable with fast tracking either.  Pretty much all my views have already been expressed. 
<crimsun_> gee, I think they have a blanket mandate from Mark
<sistpoty> hehe
<crimsun_> not anything we can do about that even if we mutiny
<crimsun_> (however, users want beryl, and by golly, give users beryl)
<crimsun_> if only codec manufacturers thought that way  /sigh
<sistpoty> yay, /me wants some nice desktop-effects as well, since I had no luck as a kde user so far *g+
<crimsun_> fwiw, beryl at least worked whereas our current compiz package doesn't
<crimsun_> TheMuso: I see no reason to fast-track.  We don't need it.  Create an "experimental" repo that's listed (but disabled) in the default /etc/apt/sources.list
<TheMuso> crimsun_: My thoughts as well. 
<crimsun_> Everyone with an LP account can upload to experimental. 
<TheMuso> I just ohpe users don't decide to ride experimental. 
<crimsun_> problem resolved. 
<sistpoty> I still believe that restricted upload rights might be another inroad, if done in a sane manner
<sistpoty> so together with experimental I'd be fully pleased *g*
<crimsun_> sistpoty: so who then can maintain such restricted uploads?  only "upstream"?  ubuntu-dev members? 
<TheMuso> So will we be required to pull updates from experimental and process them to make sure they are sane? 
<TheMuso> I'm not sure I want to have to track another repo just for updates. 
<sistpoty> crimsun_: ubuntu-dev can.  some collaboration/communication is the base to get these upload rights, so I don't think there would be too many clashes
<crimsun_> I think it'd be nice to have experimental be a graded process, like the enable-able experimental repo can only contain tested and ACKedexperimental/foo-branch packages
<crimsun_> ACKed experimental/foo-branch, that is
<geser> crimsun_: how to you avoid it that random people activate it and report how broken it is?  they already use 3rd party repos without understanding what they are doing? 
<sistpoty> it would need s.th.  like ubuntu-archive anyway (or at least a trimmed down/adjust process), otherwise me might end up with copyright probs
<TheMuso> I still don't like the idea.  Can't put a finger on why just yet howevr. 
<TheMuso> however
<crimsun_> geser: we don't avoid that :)
* lupine_85 finds another comment to fix
<sistpoty> geser: yep, that's the point, because it's upstream who will (should) deal with the bugs :)
<lupine_85> *oops*
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<lupine_85> dput *changes when in an etch system probably won't make debian.org happy :s
<lupine_85> ah well, new beryl-manager up
<lupine_85> anything else I can do tonight, or is it safe to sleep now? ;) 
<sistpoty> that depends who's still up and will do some reviews (I won't be up for too long, past 3 am here)
<crimsun_> I can review in 2 hours
<lupine_85> mm, it's 2:14am here
<crimsun_> which packages? 
<lupine_85> crimsun_: as in, start in 2 hours? 
<crimsun_> yes, as in start. 
<lupine_85> packages are aquamarine beryl-core beryl-manager beryl-plugins beryl-plugins-unsupported beryl-settings beryl-settings-bindings beryl-settings-simple emerald emerald-themes heliodor
<lupine_85> you'd probably want to concentrate on beryl-settings-bindings
<sistpoty> lupine_85: is it independent from the others? 
<sistpoty> (as in doesn't need another package as build-dependency=)
<sistpoty> -=
<lupine_85> it has build-depends on beryl-dev :/
<lupine_85> also libbs
<sistpoty> which comes from beryl-core? 
<lupine_85> yes
<crimsun_> I'll just do the whole lot, then. 
<crimsun_> time to build another chroot
<lupine_85> it's python bindings for the settings backend, based on pyrex
<racarr> lupine_85: If you need to go to sleep I can work on the packages once we get some feedback
<crimsun_> LaserJock: I can't send private queries, sorry
<lupine_85> racarr: I don't "need" to sleep
* Fujitsu just spent 35 mintues reading of the logs of this morning. 
<lupine_85> ;)
<Fujitsu> *over
<lupine_85> crimsun_: it's appreciated :)
<LaserJock> crimsun_: np
<LaserJock> I sort of think maybe we should just hold off until PPA
<LaserJock> it'll essentially make it possible to do all of this
<LaserJock> and probably in a more sane way
<Fujitsu> I'd really like to see how PPA works... Does each person have a seperate apt repo, or what? 
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> but we can also create team repos
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice to see it now so we could work out how we were going to use it. 
<LaserJock> I've asked mark in #launchpad if we can get some sort of sneak peek
<racarr> lupine_85: Ok
<Fujitsu> Ah, so you did. 
<LaserJock> I think I'll push for some sort of beta testing of it for us or something
<tonyyarusso> PPA? 
<geser> Personal Package Archive
<tonyyarusso> oh
<LaserJock> it should be similar to the opensuse build service I'd think
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That means nothing at all to me. 
* Fujitsu heads to lunch
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, you get a bazillion little repos each with is it's own repo
<LaserJock> roughly something like that
<lupine_85> like falcon on steroids? :) 
<lupine_85> falcon++
<LaserJock> so we should be able to combine bzr and PPA
<LaserJock> so reviewing source stored in bzr branches
<LaserJock> and build and test via PPA repos
<crimsun_> The following NEW packages will be installed: gimmie sexy-python 
<lupine_85> haha
<sistpoty> lol
* lupine_85 wonders what anime to watch while on hold
<mwolson> lupine_85: Honey & Clover, season 1
<lupine_85> hmm, not heard of that one
<lupine_85> just started fate stay night
<racarr> lupine_85: About beryl-settings-bindings dependencies...
<racarr> I just ran objdump -p berylsettings.so | grep NEEDED | uniq | awk '{print $2}' | xargs dpkg -S | awk '{print $1}' | uniq
<racarr> which should give some idea of dependencies
<racarr> and libpng is indeed there
<mwolson> lupine_85: it is amazingly funny
<lupine_85> racarr: yay :D
<racarr> it also seems to think it needs
<racarr> libxcomposite libxdamage libxrandr libxinerama1 libxfices3
<racarr> so I think we have something broken with our build system
<lupine_85> hmm
<lupine_85> mwolson: I'll have to look it up
<lupine_85> racarr: any clue what?  
<racarr> no :/
* lupine_85 is quickly learning to hate pyrex as much as he hates python
<lupine_85> racarr: Depends: picks those up anyway, thankfully... maybe it just needs them for reasons unknown
<racarr> I don't think so I can remove the links against them in the Makefile and it works fine
<racarr> (Makefile not Makefile.in or anything)
<racarr> also headers for them
<racarr> aren't even included in the C file
<racarr> also depends picks them up because they are in the pc file
<racarr> let me try removing the ones that make no sense and make sure everything works
<lupine_85> ooh, racarr, you've got competition for UDS ;) onestone can go too
<racarr> Mm
<racarr> lupine_85: I can remove them from the pc file and everything works I just don't know why they are showing up in the pc file
<lupine_85> mm.  one for nesl247? 
<racarr> ? 
<racarr> Oh mm he might know yeah
<lupine_85> he seems to like this sort of stuff
<sistpoty> ok, just took a look at beryl-core again, few small points, nothing really serious.  looks pretty sane to me ;)
<lupine_85> cool :) comments on revu? 
<sistpoty> yep
<lupine_85> seems reasonable
<racarr> Beryl build system? 
<racarr> sane? 
<lupine_85> never :D
<lupine_85> it's based on make, after all
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<lupine_85> night :)
<lupine_85> and that's fix0red too
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it does doesn't it
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: not sure about the ETA though
<Fujitsu> I fear it will be abused. 
<Fujitsu> Yeah, it'd be good to have it pre-Feisty+1. 
<LaserJock> horribly abused yes
<LaserJock> but I think with the team thing we can keep it sane though
<Fujitsu> It's like unofficial repositories today, but more official-looking and (worse) even easier to set up. 
<LaserJock> but maybe a bit easier to track though
<LaserJock> having it all at one place is nice
<LaserJock> I'll probably use it
<Fujitsu> I will too, I presume. 
<LaserJock> so do we need something in the mean time? 
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice to have it earlier, but it's not really a necessity. 
<Fujitsu> It's good to see things are happening to make our lives easier. 
<lupine_85> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey lupine_85! 
<Hobbsee> woohoo, i found my USB stick!!! 
<lupine_85> that's good, I take it? ;) 
<Hobbsee> nope! 
<tonyyarusso> ? 
* LaserJock wonders if it's big and pointy
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh
* Hobbsee smacks LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> heya tonyyarusso 
<tonyyarusso> hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> http://librarian.launchpad.net/6845243/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.gnomad2_2.8.8-1.1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
* Hobbsee wonders why...
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Why is it not good that you found your USB stick? 
<Hobbsee> oops, i misread
<Hobbsee> it's very good
<TheMuso> hehe thats better. :) 
* Hobbsee thought lupine_85 said "that's good, so i can take it?"  for some reason
<LaserJock> lol
* ScottK is back from the circus.   Looks like you all had fun while I was gone. 
<yigal> thats the human brain
<lupine_85> hehe
<yigal> hello how does a person start to help in a project on Ub.   I registered in Launchpad, don't have much time but want to play a part in packaging
<yigal> is this the right room for this ? 
<yigal> 3
<yigal> 2
<tonyyarusso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<yigal> 1
<tonyyarusso> hey yigal 
<yigal> hey tony
<tonyyarusso> yigal: check the links in the topic for some hints
<yigal> fare
<yigal> ty I began to go through that process and time slipped from me. 
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: re gnomad: LIBMTP_Get_Storageinfo doesn't exist in the libmtp available in the archive
<StevenK> Hrm.  Huzzah. 
* StevenK stops looking at gnomad2. 
<Toadstool> :)
<StevenK> Toadstool: Perhaps that symbol exists in 0.1.4-1? 
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: so the solution is? 
* Hobbsee reads the ML
<Toadstool> dunno, never used libmtp
* StevenK looks
<Hobbsee> ahh
* StevenK waits for it to build so he can wave nm over it. 
<StevenK> Which fails to build on Feisty.  Neat. 
<Toadstool> it might be possible to use LIBMTP_Get_Storage but it returns a linked list of storages (with their infos)...
<StevenK> Hrm.  debian/rules for libmtp looks to be on crack anyway. 
<Hobbsee> lol
* StevenK kicks the shell
<StevenK> Ahh, it uses bashisms in a glob. 
<Toadstool> http://glenstorm.beyondthelamppost.net/files/gnomad2-2.8.9.patch <-- looks like this is what you need
<StevenK> That looks good. 
<Toadstool> yup
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Shall I upload -0ubuntu2 with that patch? 
<StevenK> -1.1ubuntu2 even
<Hobbsee> StevenK: please
<Hobbsee> very nice, i should have gone looking for that
* Hobbsee has had it on the todo list
* StevenK ponders dpatch
<StevenK> Bugger it, it can get applied inline. 
* Toadstool headdesks
<StevenK> Toadstool: Hum
<StevenK> ? 
<Toadstool> nevermind, tonight sucks! :) 
<jdong> Toadstool: tonight rocks!  I just finished my RSA assignment! 
<jdong> and it only took 25 pills of vicodin
<jdong> on the other hand, I'm really happy! 
<Toadstool> and I'm having the worst St Patrick's day in my whole life :p
* chillywilly cracks open a beer
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: st patrick's day appears to be bringing out the lunatiks
<Hobbsee> yay, we have good news on beryl
<jdong> Hobbsee: I hope those are on unrelated notes ;-)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What about Beryl? 
<Hobbsee> hehe
<lupine_85> wot, is it st.  paddy's day today? 
<lupine_85> I thought it was mother's day
<joejaxx> what is the page that has the motu bugs on it? 
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: There are >800 of those pages. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: there's one in particular, though
<Hobbsee> StevenK: we can sync the packages from debian, shawn's happy for us to do that, once they get there. 
<StevenK> Yay. 
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i mean on the wiki
<Hobbsee> yep
<Toadstool> joejaxx: you mean the todo list? 
<Fujitsu> Sorry, make that almost 1000, it's worse than I thought. 
<joejaxx> Toadstool: ah yes
<Toadstool> joejaxx: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Todo <-- this one? 
<joejaxx> sorry about any confusion
<Fujitsu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<joejaxx> yes thank you
<Fujitsu> Or what Toadstool said, which is right. 
<Toadstool> nope, mine is wrong, it's TODO not Todo
<chillywilly> Fat Squirrle is a good WI brew ppl
<chillywilly> http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/beers/squirrel.html
<StevenK> Hrm.  Two ACKs is enough for a UVF Exception? 
<Toadstool> I think so
<joejaxx> hmm
<Hobbsee> yes
<Fujitsu> Why, when I search for {un,mult}iverse bugs, do I get bug #27284? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 27284 in kbd-chooser "Wrong configuration of keyboard" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/27284
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Heh, good question. 
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Thats because its in universe. 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It says main...
<TheMuso> Check madison. 
<Fujitsu> Component:  main
<Fujitsu> OK, what is LP on? 
<TheMuso> That would explain why I have seen kbd-chooser on MOM for universe previously. 
<Fujitsu> Yep. 
<Fujitsu> It is in universe now. 
<StevenK> I suspect it was uploaded and then demoted. 
<Fujitsu> But this version was previously in main.  We haven't had a new version. 
<Fujitsu> I suspect that LP isn't updating the status of the source package release in the distro, just the distrorelease. 
<Fujitsu> *the component of
* Fujitsu asks in #launchpad. 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's a sunday
<Fujitsu> True. 
* Fujitsu looks for a bug instead. 
<TheMuso> heh
<gpocentek> morning
<Toadstool> heya gpocentek 
<gpocentek> hello Toadstool 
<Toadstool> how's it going? 
<gpocentek> not bad, and you? 
<lupine_85> hehe... yet more uploads(tm)
<Toadstool> gpocentek: i'm ok
<lupine_85> so, does anyone here think we /can't/ get beryl into feisty before beta? 
<crimsun> if you mean feisty main, it's quite probable we won't. 
<crimsun> herd 6 seems feasible, however
<lupine_85> I was thinking feisty in general, so just universe I guess
<lupine_85> once it's in universe we can think about whether it needs to go into main or not ;)
<Fujitsu> I doubt it will be in main, but it's possible.  It'll be wherever sabdfl says it will be. 
<StevenK> Bugger! 
* StevenK uploaded something without running -sa for dpkg-genchanges. 
* StevenK waits for the lovely reject message. 
<lupine_85> heh
<lupine_85> I accidentally uploaded half of beryl-manager to debian earlier
<sladen> only half. 
<lupine_85> yeah, I ctrl+c'd it :D
<lupine_85> so it gets automagically rejected in 24 hours, apparently
<StevenK> lupine_85: You could use dcut to remove it from the queue. 
<imbrandon> re
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock 
<imbrandon> zomg long backscroll
<tonyyarusso> beryl beryl bugs bugs babble bugs babble beryl
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: There, you're done.   ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* lupine_85 peeks
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you really haven't read it yet? 
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you're in for some fun
<imbrandon> no i havent, i was here for the start of it
<imbrandon> has a little chat with sab etc etc etc
<imbrandon> then it seems you steped in ;)
<imbrandon> while i was sleeping ;)
<lupine_85> sleep is for the weak! 
<lupine_85> though I might have to have some laer
<lupine_85> later*
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> lupine_85, so where do we stand? 
<lupine_85> packages are on revu
<imbrandon> howd the copyright stuff go
<imbrandon> ok good
<lupine_85> complete AFAIK
<imbrandon> i'll look in just a few moments, what all packages did you upload ? 
<lupine_85> w/rt the Cg shaders, I think we've satisfied source as in GPL, and self-contained as in debian
<lupine_85> all 11
<lupine_85> erm, as is ubuntu
<lupine_85> aquamarine beryl-core beryl-manager beryl-plugins beryl-plugins-unsupported beryl-settings beryl-settings-bindings beryl-settings-simple emerald emerald-themes heliodor
<imbrandon> well the main thing with the cg shaders was they werent compiled with a free compiler
<imbrandon> iirc
<lupine_85> well, the Cg source is there now, and changes can be made to the GLSL stuff
<lupine_85> ...without involving non-free compilers
<racarr> ugh the CG shaders are not a problem at all
<imbrandon> ok lupine_85 
* lupine_85 resists the temptation to point out l-r-m ;)
<Lathiat> they may well qualify for multiverse tho (and/or restricted, just like l-r-m
<Lathiat> i have no idea tho and i abstain from any opinion as to if they do :)
<lupine_85> they're licensed under GPL... ;)
<racarr> Cg is an entirely different thing though, saying using a Cg shader makes something nonfree
<Amaranth> beryl-settings-simple apparently still has license problems
<lupine_85> Amaranth: oh? 
<Amaranth> shipping two tango icons
<lupine_85> urgh
<Amaranth> i know tango is alright in ubuntu but i don't think that is :)
<lupine_85> mm
<lupine_85> did the names get changed? 
<Amaranth> lupine_85: or did you reupload?  you were just told about this in #beryl-dev
<racarr> lupine_85: No, same name
<racarr> err, I stopped in the middle of my sentence about Cg there
<lupine_85> ah, I missed the meat of that bit of the discussion
<lupine_85> let's see if we can get GPL equivs 
<lupine_85> ... a helmet and a + sign... :D
<racarr> yeah
<racarr> haha
<imbrandon> ok so ......
<Amaranth> icon theme ftw
<imbrandon> lupine_85, how long untill you guys can clear those minor things up? 
<Amaranth> imbrandon: so the others should be fine but i'd double check to make sure
<racarr> the beryl-settings-simple stuff?  within an hour probabbly
<imbrandon> would be cool if we could upload in the next 12 - 24 hours
<imbrandon> racarr, rockin
<racarr> but I don't know if we even want beryl-settings-simple
<Amaranth> racarr: just make it use the user's icon theme
<imbrandon> Amaranth, oh no worries, ubuntu-archive normaly hits them with a fine tooth comb
<Amaranth> racarr: less confusing and less stuff
<Amaranth> imbrandon: 'normally' is the part i'm worried about :)
<lupine_85> mm, the question is how to address it at the source level
<racarr> Amaranth: I don't really know much about icon themes?  how would I use an icon suitable for an advanced button
<racarr> from the users icon theme? 
<lupine_85> I suspect a re-release for bss would be needed to get the tango icons out of the tarball
<lupine_85> since we can't modify the source directly
<racarr> pushing out a 0.2.1 anyway for the pkgconfig stuff
<lupine_85> 0.2.2, you mean? ; 
<racarr> I think
<lupine_85> ;)
<racarr> err
<racarr> 0.2.1.1
<lupine_85> mm
* Hobbsee fixes a bug.   yay
<lupine_85> even though it's all working with debian/patches? 
<Amaranth> 0.2.1.1beta5try4alpha9
<Hobbsee> no more bugs for that package.   more yay
<racarr> lupine_85: Well theres also aquamarine...
<racarr> lupine_85: And now this...
<lupine_85> I'm scared we'll run out of numbers at this rate ;)
<racarr> it seems reasonable
<lupine_85> racarr: aquamarine is now working
<racarr> yes but lots of debian/patches
<lupine_85> if we can't resolve this sensibly, I'm all for it
<lupine_85> maybe just a re-release of those 4 packages? 
<Amaranth> racarr: have you seen how many patches compiz has? 
<lupine_85> Amaranth: there are principles involved here :p
<Amaranth> it's some horrible hybrid of 0.3.6, git, and custom addons
<lupine_85> patches generally = bad
<lupine_85> w00t, it gets light at 6am now
<racarr> Amaranth: I'm reading the xdg spec for icon theme and it doesn't say anything about finding what the current seem is? 
<imbrandon> for the moment can we not bicker about the compiz/bery diffrences, we have a task , lets keep that in mind
<racarr> err s/seem/theme
<lupine_85> imbrandon: indeed :)
<Amaranth> so are the beryl packages configured to 1) not use any corners/edges 2) use workspaces by default and 3) not enable over the top bling by default (fade and zoom animations are about all you want by default)
<Amaranth> racarr: gtk knows
<Amaranth> look at, well, any other pygtk app :)
<lupine_85> racarr: you could look at how beryl-settings gets it's icons
<lupine_85> it pulls it's + and - from gtk
<racarr> ok
<lupine_85> as for advanced... I'd say your standard cog
<lupine_85> Amaranth: not yet
<racarr> beryl-settings-simple has profiles for toned down
<Amaranth> imbrandon: wasn't, was just saying the beryl package is going to end up full of patches anyway
<racarr> majorly toned down
<racarr> settings
<lupine_85> racarr: but what's default? ;) ( not bling central, I know, but certainly not minimal)
<lupine_85> does cube even work with workspaces? 
<Amaranth> no
<imbrandon> no
<lupine_85> hrm
<lupine_85> wall or plane? 
<Amaranth> to enable cube you set workspaces to 1 and hsize to 4, then enable the cube and rotate plugins
<Amaranth> no
<Hobbsee> ugh.   so it still doesnt work. 
<lupine_85> cripes
<Hobbsee> when will they fix it? 
<Amaranth> so you also need a plugin for the ctrl-alt-left/right/up/down keybindings for switching workspaces
<lupine_85> Hobbsee: I think it's going to end up with viewports for sides of cube, and each workspace is a different cube...
<lupine_85> in the current cube, anyway
<Hobbsee> lupine_85: having multiple cubes defies the point of spinning one. 
<lupine_85> Hobbsee: having a cube with one side is also pointless ;)
<Hobbsee> lupine_85: indeed.   hence it should have as many sides as the workspaces have. 
<Hobbsee> er, are
<racarr> Well, a cube made up of workspaces doesn't work
<racarr> because all workspaces have the same location in X coords
<Hobbsee> why not?   that's logical
<lupine_85> IMO it'd be better to have workspace-cube a seperate plugin, assuming it's possible
<racarr> Hobbsee: All workspaces have the exact same location in X coords, so when viewing the cube
<racarr> it's impossible to see windows on more than one workspace
<Hobbsee> that's crap. 
<lupine_85> blame it on xorg ;)
<Amaranth> you also don't get windows wrapped around the cube if it uses workspaces
<Hobbsee> needs fixing. 
<Amaranth> without ugly hacks
<racarr> Hobbsee: Yes, viewports are the fix
<Hobbsee> fix xorg then. 
<imbrandon> *cough* ok can we get the lic and other issues done please , then take design convo to the proper place *cough* hehe
<Hobbsee> racarr: presumably not if they break non-beryl window managers?   although i know beryl's not technically a WM
<lupine_85> hehe.  So b-s-s... are you working on that, racarr? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Yeah just a few minutes and I'll commit
<lupine_85> Hobbsee: beryl is technically a WM, I'd say
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: beryl is a WM :)
<lupine_85> since it, erm, manages windows
<Hobbsee> ah, right.   not a DM
<Hobbsee> which was what i meant
<lupine_85> yeah
<lupine_85> KDE 3.5.6 has preliminary support for viewports
<racarr> Hobbsee: Well, they some things like taskbars, etc, but that ujst means taskbars need to be updated
<lupine_85> it's still not very good though
<Amaranth> it's a bug in the DE if it doesn't work with viewports
<lupine_85> gnome works fine
<lupine_85> KDE 4 will almost certainly work fine
<Hobbsee> lupine_85: ahh. 
<Amaranth> lupine_85: only with me/davidr's patches
<racarr> GNOME in feisty works fine for me, is it prepatched? 
<lupine_85> Amaranth: did they not go upstream? 
<Amaranth> racarr: you're getting your libwnck from beryl's repo? :) 
<Amaranth> lupine_85: not accepted yet
<racarr> Amaranth: I don't think I even have beryls repo added
<racarr> maybe I'll check in a minute (feisty isn't on this computer...)
<lupine_85> Amaranth: getting kicker and gnome's workspace switcher working with beryl doesn't have anything to do with libwnck, does it? 
<Amaranth> the "On Top" patch is in ubuntu's libwnck, the one for "Move to Viewport X" changes the ABI so it's not in
<Amaranth> lupine_85: libwnck drives all the stuff GNOME does in that area :)
<lupine_85> ah, fair enough
<lupine_85> I'm teh gnome n00b
<lupine_85> next item then, the default settings
<lupine_85> I was thinking beryl-ubuntu and beryl-kubuntu packages with them in? 
<Amaranth> lupine_85: as similar to the compiz package's default settings as possible should be good
<lupine_85> erm
<imbrandon> lupine_85, sure
<lupine_85> I've not installed compiz since compiz-quinn was it
<Amaranth> i don't see why you need separate settings for kubuntu
<lupine_85> aquamarine
<lupine_85> etc
<Amaranth> meh, the launcher doesn't handle that? 
<lupine_85> do we want to be storing stuff in gconf & kconfig, or ini? 
<racarr> gconf
<imbrandon> no gconf in kubuntu
<racarr> set_from_stock isn't working for me :/
<lupine_85> Amaranth: it doesn't detect the DE, no
<lupine_85> A "default" option would be cool
<Amaranth> alright then, i guess you need separate packages
<lupine_85> is beryl-manager OK to be added to the taskbar by beryl-*buntu? 
<racarr> that's a NO afaik
<lupine_85> mm, that's what I was thinking
<Amaranth> for the backend, the other settings shouldn't need to be different
<lupine_85> so we'd need to start with beryl --replace, and fill in the decorator plugin I guess
<imbrandon> ok ok ok again as i said i have better things to do than listen to design issues and bickering between beryl/compiz , ping me after bit , and Amaranth please take your sugestions to the proper place ( e.g. beryl-dev )
<imbrandon> bbiab
<lupine_85> ok :)
<Amaranth> imbrandon: we're discussing the package? 
<imbrandon> ..... ok
<racarr> no you're taking random shots at Beryl as usual but it's all cool
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> 1) no 2) "as usual"? 
<imbrandon> ok, i'm serious , lets stop this NOW before it gets started
<imbrandon> everyone
<imbrandon> we are not children
<imbrandon> Amaranth, all i'm asking is if its not specificly about the beryl packages and constructive, please take it to the proper place, yes some of what you said has been very helpfull, some of it is just for spite, i dont have to point out ( and wont ) witch is witch, you know the deal
<imbrandon> that is all i'm getting at, we're all adults and should act that way
<imbrandon> ok anyhow, back to the packages
<imbrandon> i need to grab some food, racarr / lupine_85 , mind poking me when you have an update on REVU ? 
<lupine_85> imbrandon: sure, looks like all that's left is b-s-s and these default settings
<imbrandon> kk
<NotAmaranth> The compiz packages have their default settings setup like they do for a reason, I'm just saying to copy that setup as much as possible for the beryl packages
<imbrandon> sure, that sounds sane ( imho ) 
<roico> NotAmaranth, compiz doesn't have animations...
<imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
<roico> i don't think magic lamp is a bad default...
<roico> but that's just my opinion... :p
<lupine_85> well, I don't like it but that's just me ;)
<NotAmaranth> roico: but it does achieve some of the same things with fade and minimize which match up to fade and zoom in your animation plugin
* lupine_85 really loves glide
<NotAmaranth> The idea is to be like metacity/kwin but with a touch of bling
<roico> NotAmaranth, true, what i mean is, maybe those default compiz settings are like that because it doesn't have animations plugin?  :P
<NotAmaranth> so it's not such a jarring switch between the two
<lupine_85> mm... so definitely using aquamarine/heliodor
<NotAmaranth> roico: i've already gone through this, i wanted more bling turned on in compiz too :)
<roico> NotAmaranth, i don't think magic lamp is the most "blingish" effect, its quite usable too i think (knowing where it was minimized to)...
<racarr> lupine_85: beryl-settings-simple is almost done there are a few other issues...packing, etc
<lupine_85> ok
<NotAmaranth> zoom achieves that same effect without jumping out at you though
<racarr> just needs some polish (no one was using it before so I didn't bother)
<racarr> glide actually is really nice
<racarr> glide would be a great default
* jdong has just lost hope in humankind :(
* lupine_85 is attempting to make a profile for beryl-ubuntu
<jdong> or at least America. 
<lupine_85> jdong: join the club ;)
<NotAmaranth> magic lamp would be good if it was 1 or 0 waves but that's got patent problems :)
<lupine_85> and I ++glide++
<jdong> http://adambots.gotdns.com/Main/WifeBeater2/ADS8.jpg
<roico> glide-- here... :p
<NotAmaranth> do you have a video of glide?  i don't think i've seen it
<racarr> I don't
<lupine_85> mm, no
<racarr> it's very subtle though
<jdong> If you're being chased by a dog.... Stop, turn towards the dog, point, and firmly say "NO" or "GO HOME".  This is effective even for dogs that don't speak English. 
<roico> i remember it was buggy when i first tried it, i'll try it again... :p
<lupine_85> the windows leave by tilting away from you towards the bottom and fading away, moving slightly down
<NotAmaranth> jdong: you could just as easily say "COME BITE ME"
<lupine_85> they come back in the reverse
<roico> but it fits create / close i think...
<StevenK> I find most dogs don't speak English. 
<jdong> StevenK: it's wrong on so many levels. 
<StevenK> The only exception I can think of is Gaspode. 
<NotAmaranth> lupine_85: does it show where the window went clearly? 
<StevenK> (Prachett)
<jdong> StevenK: I've started collecting stupid newspaper stuff like this. 
<StevenK> jdong: Heh
<roico> NotAmaranth, no...
<lupine_85> NotAmaranth: no
<roico> i don't think it fits minimize TBH...
<NotAmaranth> lupine_85, roico: Bad idea then :)
<lupine_85> fair enough
<NotAmaranth> Might look cool and subtle but if it doesn't show where the window went it looks like it just died
<racarr>  no not for minimize, but for close it's good
<roico> NotAmaranth, i think it could be nice for create / close...
<NotAmaranth> maybe close, create should be a very fast fade
<roico> erm, try it NotAmaranth, you don't even know how it looks like... :p
<NotAmaranth> i don't use 3rd party repos ;)
* NotAmaranth loads up revu
<lupine_85> scale... give it a keybinding or disable it? 
<lupine_85> edge is gone, of course
<StevenK> lupine_85: A keybinding for scale would be nice. 
<lupine_85> mm, I love scale
<lupine_85> we'll have to document them all somewhere....
<lupine_85> wobbly off by default? 
<NotAmaranth> _yes_
<lupine_85> heh.  So snap on by default, then
<NotAmaranth> yeah
<racarr> It's worth noting that if we put out a 0.2.1.1
<racarr> I'm going to backport wall
<NotAmaranth> that reminds me, i need to tear into snap to make it not prevent you from pulling things apart
<NotAmaranth> racarr: it's using workspaces by default
<imbrandon> disable wobbly ? 
<imbrandon> heya StevenK 
<racarr> NotAmaranth: I know, but there will be an option to enable viewports, so
<racarr> why is it using workspaces by default incidentally? 
<lupine_85> so it plays nice with KDE? 
<NotAmaranth> i dunno what to do there, people seem to love their cube
<lupine_85> I'm a KDE fanboi and the lack of integration drove me crazy enough to use gnome-session
<NotAmaranth> racarr: if i'm using metacity and have things on different workspaces i want them to stay there when i turn on beryl/compiz :)
<racarr> Someone will write KDE patches (Me, or onestone, he's better with KDE than me)
<lupine_85> still using KDE apps, though
* Hobbsee cant stand beryl on kde...
<racarr> NotAmaranth: I don't see 95% of people switching beryl/compiz on and off
<roico> hmm, racarr small question, i think such a feature can be implemented quite easily...
<NotAmaranth> racarr: that's the reasoning i was given for why compiz's package does it
<sabdfl> its possible to go for main
<lupine_85> ah, hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> if we can get a desktop-effects selector which lets you toggle between beryl and compiz
<imbrandon> moins sabdfl 
<sabdfl> moin moin
<NotAmaranth> racarr: not saying it's valid, just saying it seems like the desktop team says it needs to be this way
<lupine_85> shade animation? 
<roico> NotAmaranth, i consider this a bug that can be fixed...
<NotAmaranth> roico: in less than 24 hours? :) 
<roico> NotAmaranth, probably yes...
<racarr> NotAmaranth: Mm, it seems to me like workspaces by default is a mistake
<racarr> I can even make a toned down version of wall in an hour or so to be a nicer viewport default than cube
<NotAmaranth> racarr: that's not the point
<NotAmaranth> racarr: the switch from metacity/kwin to beryl and back needs to be as seamless as possible
<lupine_85> translating from workspace x to viewport x should be easy
<roico> yeah, lupine_85++
<NotAmaranth> you don't want the first impression of beryl to be "wtf, this thing just messed up my windows"
<racarr> I think I know how to do that in a clean/easy way
<NotAmaranth> roico, lupine_85: me and racarr tried
<racarr> I'll do it after I finish the beryl-settings-simple changes
<lupine_85> I'm thinking iZoom and negative should be enabled
<roico> racarr, reading the workspace value and moving to the corresponding viewport?  :P
<lupine_85> usability features, after all
<imbrandon> ummm fellas we're losing sight here again
<imbrandon> brb
<roico> accessibility lupine_85... ;)
<lupine_85> it's all the same to me
<racarr> roico: err, that wont fix other way around
<roico> racarr, hmmm, the other way around is a bit harder, but it can be done the same way...
<roico> we will need to choose what workspace in case the window is in 2 different ones...
<NotAmaranth> #beryl-dev :)
<lupine_85> and if it crashes, back to heliodor I guess
<lupine_85> erm, metacity
<NotAmaranth> for now let's say workspaces by default unless you make that work
<racarr> yeah I have one last little thing with beryl-settings-simple I want to fix
<racarr> a button is kind of out of line
<racarr> then I will do the workspace thing
<roico> NotAmaranth, who can i ask for adding magic lamp + glide defaults?  :P
<lupine_85> http://www.lupine.me.uk/beryl-buntu/beryl-ubuntu-settings.Profile <-- draft 1
<NotAmaranth> glide scares the crap out of me :)
<NotAmaranth> oh, glide2
<roico> lupine_85, press shift + f10...
<roico> that should be removed (if it works for you)
<lupine_85> doesn't do anything here...
<roico> try minimizing stuff...
<roico> i mean, have something to animate...
<lupine_85> minimise is fade
<racarr> lupine_85: Beryl settings simple fixes are in master
<lupine_85> hmm, currently showdesktop is bound to F6.. that's no goo
<lupine_85> good*
<racarr> tango icons gone + packing fixes
<roico> lupine_85, it will toggle slow animations i think which is bad... just make sure it doesn't... :p its in the shortcuts of the general options...
<racarr> if you look in beryl-settings-simple/profiles
<racarr> level1-5.Profile are the profiles for the different levels of the sliders
<lupine_85> racarr: ok, thanks :)
<racarr> and probably what you want to be using for choosing defaults
<NotAmaranth> lupine_85: oh, compiz puts an ubuntu logo on the cube too, btw
<NotAmaranth> probably good to have
<lupine_85> hmm, and i've gone off glide for create/close
<roico> shoe desktop enabled? 
<roico> its not even in supported iirc...
<lupine_85> fair enough, away it goes
<racarr> err
<roico> why is scale disabled? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Fade desktop should be enabled...
<racarr> lupine_85: fade desktop also works with the showdesktop X property, showdesktop didn't
<lupine_85> 1.  accident 2.  because show was enabled ;)
<lupine_85> ok
<racarr> I need to update fadedesktop though, I've done a poor job of maintaining that
<racarr> though I don't know if it has any problems...
<lupine_85> we can't steal F7-F9 and Pause, though
<racarr> It's super+f6 right now
<roico> racarr, maniac rewrote it...
<lupine_85> well, I dunno... pause should be fine
<racarr> fade desktop that is
<racarr> roico: He did?  I know he made some changes when he added the showdesktop interface in core
<racarr> but I didn't know they were that extensive
<NotAmaranth> think i'm starting to agree with imbrandon, perhaps we should do this in #beryl-dev
<NotAmaranth> we've taken over the channel with beryl talk :)
<lupine_85> ok, beryl-settings-simple reuploaded
<imbrandon> lupine_85, rockin
<lupine_85> mm, I might pop another up in a second
<imbrandon> lupine_85, ok so all are good for review / upload then as far as you know ? 
<imbrandon> ok
<lupine_85> I'm thinking that source package is the most logical to build the beryl-*buntu packages from
<lupine_85> imbrandon: we're still working on default settings, that's it now I think
<lupine_85> except racarr trying to get viewport<->workspace transitions working perfectly :)
<imbrandon> ok dont think toooo terribly hard about the default settings, those can always be tweasked, lets just get the major stuff taken care of and in
<lupine_85> yeah, no worries
<lupine_85> basically, "level 2" in b-s-s is going to become the ? buntu default one
<imbrandon> ummm the beryl-core is probably the best place for the meta pacakges imho
<lupine_85> hmm... I'm not entirely sure
<lupine_85> actually, yes
<imbrandon> thats fine to start with, rember ubuntu ( or any distro for that matter ) dosent normaly keep the upstream defaults, we're likely to change them after the inital upload ( then you can adapt them back upstream if wanted )
<lupine_85> beryl-?buntu can just depend on b-s-s
<imbrandon> thats why i said defaults arent a big deal, we can always tweak those 
<imbrandon> better to get it in and tested by a large set of people to know what default ubuntu wants
<imbrandon> ;)
<lupine_85> :)
<lupine_85> it's just having the infrastructure in place, of course
<imbrandon> yup
<Amaranth> i suppose if it's going to stay in universe you can go nuts with the defaults, actually
<racarr> sabdfl just said we can try for main, hehe
<Amaranth> if it gets installed by default seb128 will probably setup the defaults for you ;)
<racarr> lupine_85: http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/shutdown.patch
<lupine_85> racarr: for core, I take it? 
<racarr> err
<racarr> theres a problem there just a second
<racarr> well
<lupine_85> ok :)
<racarr> something that shouldn't be there
<racarr> the bottom part is part of the uncompleted startup patch, heh
<racarr> uploading again, freedesktop ssh is slow today
<racarr> lupine_85: Ok, refresh
<lupine_85> ok, I'll queue it up ;)
<tsmithe> morning everyone
<tsmithe> lupine_85, how's it going? 
<lupine_85> tsmithe: getting there
<imbrandon> moins tsmithe 
<tsmithe> you've not been working all (my) night, have you? 
<lupine_85> feel free to review some packages ;)
<lupine_85> tsmithe: all yours, and all mine
<lupine_85> in fact, i've been awake 24 hours now
<tsmithe> grugh... i did that for a package once
<tsmithe> remember enblend, anyone?  :P
<tsmithe> anyhow, good luck - what's been the troubles? 
<lupine_85> Just lots of niggling things
<lupine_85> working on the settings now
<tsmithe> cool, i guess :)
<stgraber> morning
<sabdfl> good work, guys
<imbrandon> moins stgraber 
<racarr> So, what do people think about enabling viewports/cube?  I've just done two patches that make it so you can switch between beryl/metacity
<racarr> and windows positions get translated between viewports/workspaces
<racarr> so your windows wont all get clobbered in viewport/workspace 1 anymore
<racarr> that seemed like the biggest problem with enabling viewports...
<imbrandon> yea personaly i think cube / wobby / and shadows should be the only things "on" by default
<racarr> Err, I'm not so sure about wobbly
<racarr> hehe
<roico> i'd replace wobbly wioth magic lamp... :_
<roico> *:)
<imbrandon> either way , we can always try it and turn it on and off
<imbrandon> upstream beryl defaults ! = ubuntu defaults ;)
<imbrandon> thats what i've been trying to get accross all night ;)
<imbrandon> ok so racarr / lupine_85 is whats on REVU the latest for me to testbuild / upload ? 
<lupine_85> not yet
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> heh
<racarr> not quite, the metacity viewport consistency patches aren't in, maybe some other stuff
<racarr> everything besides -core should be latest
<imbrandon> sure, no problem, just let me know
<imbrandon> i'll be here for atleaste 8.5 more hours
<imbrandon> if not longer
<imbrandon> racarr, but i need core before the rest ( to build hehe )
<lupine_85> ok, just compiling core now
<lupine_85> ok, it's up
* lupine_85 gets back to b-s-b
<imbrandon> ok so the list of packages you gave me earlier on REVU are ready for me ? 
<lupine_85> all except b-s-b
<imbrandon> k
<racarr> lupine_85: What's wrong with bindings now? 
<lupine_85> erm, b-s-s
<imbrandon> sounds good , i'll get started on those then
<lupine_85> rather :D
<lupine_85> b-s-b is fine
<racarr> ah
<roico> b-s-b? 
<racarr> bindings
<crimsun> imbrandon: are you working through -core? 
<crimsun> I'd like to once-over it at least
<imbrandon> crimsun, i was going to test build them all
<imbrandon> but yes please once over them
<imbrandon> any / all of them
<racarr> Someone needs to look at the copyright file in beryl-plugins/debian as well
<crimsun> ok go ahead with that, I'll review -core now
<racarr> I did a new one just a bit ago but I'm not sure if that's the best way to do it
<racarr> (Notice at the top with license, etc, then header from each plugin that lists what plugin it comes from)
<imbrandon> racarr, ok
<lupine_85> argh, such a finicky pain
<racarr> Mm? 
<lupine_85> my head isn't working any more
<imbrandon> crimsun, if you dident catch the full list , i'm test building aquamarine beryl-core beryl-manager beryl-plugins beryl-plugins-unsupported beryl-settings beryl-settings-bindings
<lupine_85> imbrandon: there should be 11 source packages
<stgraber> lupine_85: get some sleep :)
<imbrandon> hrm
<lupine_85> racarr: I've got 2 .Profile files I want to override level2.Profile
<imbrandon> lupine_85, drop me a list once more
<racarr> lupine_85: ? 
<lupine_85> eh, I lost my list as well :p
<lupine_85> but let's see what my memory's like
<imbrandon> i'll look back in the log
<imbrandon> aquamarine beryl-core beryl-manager beryl-plugins beryl-plugins-unsupported beryl-settings beryl-settings-bindings beryl-settings-simple emerald
<imbrandon> emerald-themes heliodor
<lupine_85> that's it :)
* lupine_85 had 9 of them, had forgotten about plugins
<racarr> Those are important
<racarr> :p
<crimsun> beryl-core's COPYING is old; it still uses the old FSF address
<lupine_85> racarr: for the ubuntu/kubuntu default settings
<racarr> lupine_85: Ah
<lupine_85> the idea being that it overrides the current level2.Profile, which would be in a separate package
<racarr> lupine_85: Then you just need a beryl-ubuntu and beryl-kubuntu package that just contains the level2.Profile? 
<lupine_85> racarr: yeah
<lupine_85> it's what i'm playing with now
<racarr> why do we need different Kubuntu/ubuntu settings? 
<lupine_85> aquamarine/heliodor
<lupine_85> are being called from decorator plugin
<lupine_85> + ubuntu wants gconf, kub doesn't
<racarr> mm  right
<racarr> you should tweak the profiles quite a bit as well
<racarr> they are ancient
<lupine_85> well, d/s will once there's a framework
<lupine_85> since it'd then just be debian/patch on the .Profile
<imbrandon> lupine_85, did you see crimsun comment ? 
<lupine_85> the COPYING? 
<imbrandon> yes
<lupine_85> mm, a quick fix :)
<lupine_85> are all the other FSF addresses OK? ;) 
<lupine_85> (there's a lot of them!) 
<imbrandon> sed ftw ;)
<crimsun> I'm on the phone; I'll continue reviewing -core as soon as I'm finished (ETA: 5 mins)
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> i have it building on aurora right now
<vil>  hi imbrandon
<racarr> Thanks to everyone on the Ubuntu side for working with on this by the way (and sabdfl for starting the whole process)
<racarr> we realize it's a bit unusual this close to release, heh
<vil> I would like to ask about buntudot.org, is there any dns error?  I cannot access it. 
<imbrandon> vil, actualy i was just checkign that, some reason i'm having trubble too 
<vil> imbrandon, any idea, when it can be up and running again? 
<imbrandon> its up now, i'm on the box, dns is screwy
<imbrandon> mot more than a few minutes
<imbrandon> vil, seems to be ok again
<vil> imbrandon, thx, I am already there
<crimsun> beryl-core's doc/ needs some license love
<racarr> crimsun: It's GPL, but what needs to be done? 
<lupine_85> right now it's just manpages...
<crimsun> racarr: beryl.1 doesn't state that
<racarr> Agh, right I'll do that
<lupine_85> so it's the copying and beryl.1
* tsmithe listens to the busying of packagers
<imbrandon> tsmithe, wonderfull sound isnt it
<racarr> and beryl-xgl.1 presumambly lupine
<crimsun> ls
<crimsun> err, sorry
<lupine_85> racarr: mm, that doesn't actually get installed right now but what the hel
<tsmithe> imbrandon, yup :P
<racarr> lupine_85: I'll have manpage patches in just a second
<lupine_85> well, for licensing it's apply to branch & make a new tarball...
<racarr> ? 
<racarr> oh
<racarr> right
<racarr> well, ehhhhh I don't know
<racarr> a lot of manpages don't have the license...
<racarr> ah beryl-xgl.1 is just beryl.1
<racarr> lupine_85: http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/man.patch
<imbrandon> crimsun, lupine_85 : as far as building / versioning  and lintian/linda on the source/binarys -core seems ok
<imbrandon> so as soon as the last bit of stuff crimsun points out it will be ready
<racarr> lupine_85: I think that is fine as a debian/patch, I mean I will apply it to core but
<racarr> err, I mean master, and I just did
<lupine_85> racarr: we can't patch over the address
<racarr> lupine_85: Why? 
<racarr> err
<racarr> why do we even include a fully copy of the GPL? 
<racarr> full
<lupine_85> erm.  presumably because then the old address is still there.  And because we're required to by the terms of the license
<racarr> ...doi that's right
<racarr> ironic
<crimsun> right, if you don't include the full text of the GPL, that's an instant reject by the archive team. 
<lupine_85> stumped by a bad address
<lupine_85> and i honestly can't figure out how to get 0.2 source from this git
<racarr> lupine_85: We can just diff between
<racarr> new GPL and old GPL
<racarr> and the patch in /debian
<racarr> It seems like
<racarr> that would be allowed
<lupine_85> crimsun: would we get away with that? 
<racarr> I mean I know, "changing it is not allowed." 
<racarr> but
<lupine_85> I'm thinking not, because people reading the source won't really see the patch
<racarr> it's just syncing it to the latest version of the GPL
<imbrandon> umm why not just fix the file directly ? 
<racarr> because then we have to do another release
<racarr> build tarballs
<racarr> etc
<lupine_85> well, that's what we should do.  cue a tarball.  
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> dont fix it in the orig.tar fix it in the unpacked , then when you make the dsc it will be in the diff
<imbrandon> but unpacked it will be there
<imbrandon> e.g. not clean but works
<racarr> Seems reasonable
<imbrandon> then when you roll a new tar , no patch to remove etc
<imbrandon> next release
<lupine_85> you mean edit outside debian/ ? 
<imbrandon> i wouldent sugest doing this for source, but for things like the lic thats fixed in svn it shouldnt be a proble, also another thing
<lupine_85> eh, the best thing about rules is knowing when to break them, I guess
<racarr> lupine_85: Got the manpage patch? 
<imbrandon> lupine_85, yes, that is what i sugested, not great solution but the only other choice you have is to do 0.2.1+git20070318
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> and do a non upstream re-roll of the tarbal
<lupine_85> yep, and applied
<lupine_85> new FSF address...
<racarr> lupine_85: 
<racarr> Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.  
<racarr> 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301, USA
<crimsun> po/ru.po is missing a license
<crimsun> probably need to ping Danfocus <danfocus@mail.ru>
<lupine_85> that's the one
<racarr> gah
<crimsun> same for po/uk_UA.po
<crimsun> Mik B. Shvets <solshark@i-soldi.com>
<racarr> Isn't it presumed it's distributed under the same license as the package? 
<crimsun> racarr: the 18 other .po files either state "same license" or explicitly GPL2
<crimsun> those two files have no information whatsoever
<imbrandon> the package usualy isnt licensed, the indvidual files are ;)
<racarr> ok I will email both then
<crimsun> great, thanks. 
<lupine_85> joy :).  well, email time I guess, though they're going to be gpl
<racarr> agh that's a pain
<racarr> no way to tell how long before they respond :/
<crimsun> if it's that bad, we can just reroll the tarball without those .po
<imbrandon> *.dfsg.*  tar's have been done before ;)
<lupine_85> AHA!  Got it, the goit
<imbrandon> smoke break at work, back in a few minutes
<crimsun> hmm, who was the original author of settings-backends/ini.c ? 
<lupine_85> Quinn
<crimsun> it states Quinn Storm <quinnstorm@beryl-project.org>, but the license header attributes it to Copyright  2005 Novell, Inc.
<racarr> ...yeah that's...wrong
<crimsun> I'm presuming David R.? 
<racarr> Yes but he never touched ini
<lupine_85> gah, that's wrong, yes
<crimsun> ok, that file needs love
<racarr> I guess that needs a new tarball
<lupine_85> s/novell/quinn, I guess
<racarr> lupine_85: Our 0.2.0 branch doesn't seem to exist any more :/
<lupine_85> joy
<racarr> is SVN still up? 
<lupine_85> if not, I still have the files here
<lupine_85> might as well merge man & COPYING at the same time
<lupine_85> heh, and the rest of the patches
<racarr> and go ahead and merge
<racarr> all the debian/patches
<racarr> beryl-core 0.2.1.1
<lupine_85> brb...
<racarr> err, are you doing to work on that or should I? 
<imbrandon> lupine_85 / racarr / crimsun , ok what i sugest after all these changes are committed to beryl's git ( i presume thats what your doing racarr ) we just re-roll a tarball downstream of 0.2.1.dfsg+git20070318 as to not rush upstream beryl into a release, sabdfl will be happy with an upload soonish and yes, you get my point
<racarr> What's the significance of the dfsg? 
<racarr> I realize it stands for debian free software guidelines (I think?) 
<imbrandon> means we remove the .po files that arent 100% sure are free
<imbrandon> yes it does
<racarr> so preusmambly related to the 2 translations
<racarr> ah, ok
<crimsun> src/activation.c needs a license header, or it needs an explicit mention in debian/copyright
<racarr> imbrandon: That seems like a good idea
<racarr> crimsun: That's davidr, so that's easy
<imbrandon> crimsun, sound ok to you ? 
<lupine_85> racarr: I'm on it :)
<imbrandon> smoke break, brb
<crimsun> imbrandon: yes
<lupine_85> in the svn, mind
<imbrandon> kk
<racarr> lupine_85: Ok, SVN is still up
<racarr> lupine_85: You read what imbrandon said about the dfgs+git tarball? 
<racarr> dfsg
<lupine_85> yeah
<racarr> ok
<lupine_85> so remove those two .po, do src/activation.c
<racarr> err
<racarr> I'm not sure I understand how that works
<lupine_85> meh.  svn: Can't create directory '/beryl/db/transactions/4514-1.txn': Permission denied
<racarr> are the two pos removed in the upstream tarball
<lupine_85> ah, I think it's read-only
<racarr> or diff? 
<crimsun> racarr: yes, in the tarball
<lupine_85> removed in teh tarball
<lupine_85> crap, snow :/
<racarr> ok
<racarr> lupine_85: Also merge all the patches we already have...
<racarr> no reason to have a debian/patches  if it's not needed
<lupine_85> racarr: yep, that's done
<racarr> fun
<crimsun> lupine_85: in debian/changelog, it's best to follow the format where you list the patch followed by a very brief synopsis of its function
<lupine_85> crimsun: ok
<lupine_85> there are no patches now ;)
<crimsun> ok
<racarr> woo
<crimsun> debian/libberylsettings0-gconf.install contains a .so (not a .so.blah).  Intentional? 
<imbrandon> ok just so _I'm_ clear here, all changes we've been talking about ( except removing the .po's ) are in git ? 
<racarr> yes
<imbrandon> yes who?  hehe
<racarr> yes they are in git
<crimsun> moreover, debian/libberylsettings0.install references usr/lib/beryl/backends/libini.so .  Also intentional? 
<racarr> except the COPYING file actually, I'll do that now
<lupine_85> crimsun: yes, that's intentional
<crimsun> lupine_85: ok, as long as that's correct (and not a .so.foo)
<lupine_85> given that libberylsettings is useless without at least one backend we thought it'd be prudent ;)
<lupine_85> racarr: you found the source in git? 
<lupine_85> (0.2)
<racarr> no but it all has to go to master anyway
<racarr> we do NOT have a 0.2 git branch
<racarr> we just don't
<lupine_85> bah
<lupine_85> I can't work out this po system
<racarr> ? 
<lupine_85> I've removed ru.po from everywhere I see it, and it still asks for it when running make distcheck
<lupine_85> moving to git today was a bad idea
<racarr> lupine_85: Maybe the makefile does a
<racarr>  *.po type thing ? 
<racarr> err
* crimsun signs off on beryl-core
<racarr> ...nevermind
<racarr> heh
<imbrandon> racarr, no , from earlier, we are not touching upstream ( past your commits to git ) , we are playing by the ubuntu rules past that and gonna roll our own tarball 
<imbrandon> and call it a git snapshot
<racarr> imbrandon: Mm, no to what? 
<lupine_85> ah, fair enough
<imbrandon> thus my questions about you having everything commited to git but the po removal ( that will be done manualy )
<lupine_85> so we don't actually have to do anything :D
<racarr> yes but in the tarball you make that has to be there lupine
<lupine_85> "that" is what? 
<imbrandon> racarr / lupine_85 yea its like your wearing two hats now, let me semi explain how this is gonna work, one sec phone
<racarr> lupine_85: Err, removing the ru.po and uk_UA.po I meant
<lupine_85> ah, so those have to be in the tarball? 
<lupine_85> or must not be in the tarball? 
<lupine_85> treat me like an idiot, I'm going at 1/10th my usual right now
<imbrandon> not be in the tarball, but OUR tarball not beryls
<racarr> lupine_85: You have to remove 
<imbrandon> ok let me explain
<racarr> ru from LINGUAS
<racarr> err, no
<crimsun> err, hmm.  There's a cyclic dependency here. 
<lupine_85> another? 
<imbrandon> racarr / lupine_85 , you are making all these changes to git as beryl developers , THEN as ubuntu packagers downstream you are gonna do a fresh git checkout and make a beryl-core_0.2.1.dfsg+git20070318.orig.tar.gz and go from there
<imbrandon> see what i mean about treating it seperate ? 
<lupine_85> that'd be great, but we don't have 0.2 in git and svn is read-only right now
<racarr> that's not what he means, that part is fine
<racarr> what he means is we don't remove the pos in version control
<racarr> but make a tarball without the pos
<imbrandon> right
<racarr> normally ubuntu would make the tarball without the pos
<imbrandon> exactly
<lupine_85> ok
<imbrandon> you are wearing two hats here, one as beryl developer one as ubuntu developers
<imbrandon> i'm trying to show you where the line is to make it easier in your heads
<racarr> lupine_85: Mm, actually removing from linguas
<racarr> seems to make distcheck work
<crimsun> lupine_85: in beryl-core's debian/control:beryl:Depends I suggest you demote beryl-manager to a Recommends
<lupine_85> Makes snse
<crimsun> imbrandon: have time to once-over http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4640 ? [ beryl-manager] 
<racarr> Hello again Hobbsee
<crimsun> it seems acceptable to me and ready for an upload
<imbrandon> crimsun, ok
<imbrandon> i need to wait on -core to upload though
<imbrandon> because of build deps 
<crimsun> it'll just depwait, not a problem
<imbrandon> k
* imbrandon looks
<crimsun> those automatically retry
<imbrandon> k
<lupine_85> racarr: so do you want to make this new tarball? 
<imbrandon> racarr,  if you have any issues making the new tarbal lemme know
<racarr> lupine_85: Err, I can but I don't have a copy of the tree you are making it from
<Hobbsee> hi racarr 
<racarr> as in with all the patches merged
<racarr> lupine_85: What still needs to be done? 
<racarr> patches appplied, everything fixed...removing the .po and removing the entry from LINGUAS fixes distcheck / license.........
<racarr> lupine_85: Or had you not applied the patches yet? 
<lupine_85> racarr: I can't commit to svn
<lupine_85> nobody can
<lupine_85> and we can't exactly pull from trunk (git)
<racarr> I don't see ht eproblem though
<racarr> you pull from the 0.2 branch? 
<racarr> and all the fixes go to GIT
<racarr> because they need to be there anyway
<lupine_85> mm.  i'm not thinking straight.  my patched-and-fixed svn broken when I removed the .po files
<lupine_85> so I'm probably further behind than you at the moment
<racarr> err, ? 
<racarr> Patched and fixed SVN, then you removed the .po files
<racarr> did you remove them from LINGUAS? 
<imbrandon> ok crimsun / lupine_85 / racarr , beryl-manager testbuilt and uploaded
<racarr> imbrandon: Fun fun! 
<imbrandon> brb phone
<lupine_85> there's no po or uk_UA in there
<lupine_85> so yes
<racarr> so err, what's the problem? 
<lupine_85> it refused to build
<crimsun> imbrandon: ok, thanks
<racarr> still refusing? 
<lupine_85> make[1] : *** No rule to make target `ru.po', needed by `distdir'.   Stop. 
<racarr> (just a guess)
<racarr> did you remove ru_RU? 
<racarr> instead of ru
<racarr> ? 
<crimsun> imbrandon: beryl-manager archived
<lupine_85> lifesaver! 
<racarr> the ru_RU thing?  :p
<racarr> I did the same thing, heh
<lupine_85> so now make distcheck, and we're ready for distribution
<lupine_85> erm, moar packaging
<lupine_85> so now I dump my debian/ into this, and reupload? 
<imbrandon> crimsun, thanks
<jekil> hi *
<imbrandon> lupine_85, yes version the tarbal correctly , but yea
<imbrandon> so its clear that its dfsg ( stuff removed ) and a git snapshot
<imbrandon> then prepend -0ubuntu1 as pernormal
<lupine_85> yep, so that's all in changelog
<lupine_85> I take it I don't edit VERSION ? 
<imbrandon> so it will end up looking like beryl_core-0.2.1.dfsg+git<date>-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> <date> == 20070318
<crimsun> well, beryl-core_0.2[..] 
<imbrandon> erm yea
<imbrandon> my mistake ;)
<crimsun> I blame the time; it's 6:30 AM
<crimsun> :-)
<imbrandon> hehe yea 530 here 
<lupine_85> 10:30am here
<imbrandon> crimsun, what state are you in , i always forget ? 
<crimsun> NC
<imbrandon> ahh thats right
<afflux> huh, 5.30 is far too early to work.  it's 11.30 here :P
<lupine_85> heh, 10:30am wouldn't be so bad if I'd gotton round to sleeping last night
<lupine_85> oooh, and it's all sunny now
<lupine_85> new beryl-core uploaded
<lupine_85> it should be everything
<racarr> viewport patches as well? 
<lupine_85> yep
<racarr> woo
<lupine_85> everything
<lupine_85> and still!  beryl-ubuntu is defeating me :/
<racarr> lupine_85: What is the problem? 
<afflux> huh, beryl?  is beryl going to be added to the repos? 
<imbrandon> afflux, yes
<afflux> oh, nice. 
<lupine_85> I've gotton level2.Profile to split out of b-s-s into beryl-default
<lupine_85> but
<lupine_85> there's still a copy in b-s-s
<afflux> but that would be for feisty+1, right? 
<imbrandon> afflux, no for feisty universe
<tsmithe> lupine_85, you in england? 
<afflux> hasn'
<afflux> woops
<afflux> hasn't there been a featurefreeze some time ago? 
<lupine_85> tsmithe: yeah
<tsmithe> \o/ /me too
<racarr> afflux: sabdfl override :p
<imbrandon> afflux, yes this sia sabdfl request to do a last minute push
<afflux> ah, okay.  sry for asking dumb questions :)
<crimsun> not at all dumb. 
<imbrandon> no not dumb at all
<imbrandon> we all asked the same thing ;)
<crimsun> this is probably the most coordinated review effort in quite some time. :-) 
<imbrandon> ( atleaste ourselfs )
<racarr> crimsun: Yeah this is pretty impressive how quickly this is moving
<imbrandon> crimsun, +1
<lupine_85> mmmmm
<afflux> ah, alright.  I just started watching this channel again, so I overread this stuff. ;) 
<lupine_85> lots of nice help :)
<afflux> s/overread/didn't read/
<lupine_85> ok, so i've got the .install files right... what am I missing?! 
<racarr> I just got a confirmation of the license on
<racarr> uk_UA.po
<lupine_85> heh
<lupine_85> great
<racarr> yeah
<racarr> ironic
<imbrandon> heh
<racarr>  err...
<racarr> I actually got it 20 minutes ago
<racarr> ...just didn't see it
<racarr> ...oops? 
<imbrandon> dget http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/beryl-core-0703180630/beryl-core_0.2.1.dfsg+git20070318-0ubuntu1.dsc
<imbrandon> err
<lupine_85> ? 
<imbrandon> wrong console window
<lupine_85> aha!  Getting there now...
<racarr> with the -ubuntu and -kubuntu packages? 
<imbrandon> crimsun, any last reservations about -core before i upload ? 
<imbrandon> build went ok
<lupine_85> racarr: yeah
<lupine_85> FINALLY got level2 separated out properly
<lupine_85> now to get packages containing the other level2's
<racarr> lupine_85: How are we going to handle actually using level2 by default? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Something has to load the profile in...
<lupine_85> Presumably desktop-effects? 
<racarr> yeah ok, iXce is patching that right? 
<crimsun> imbrandon: I'll need to recheck, sec
<imbrandon> k
<racarr> has anyone started to look at plugins, settings, etc yet? 
<crimsun> speaking of those, shouldn't those be demoted to Recommends of beryl, too? 
<imbrandon> not yet, i'm going down the line with crimsun , what ever he picks next ( just so we all stay on the same page )
<racarr> crimsun: -plugins probably not, core is litteraly useless without -plugins
<racarr> crimsun: window movement, placement, resizing, etc is all in -plugins
<crimsun> right, but this is packaging, not functionality
<crimsun> I presume -plugins build-depends on beryl-dev
<racarr> yes
<crimsun> what gets pulled in automatically, beryl-core? 
<racarr> pulled in automatically by? 
<crimsun> beryl-dev
<crimsun> ${shlibs:Depends}
<racarr> I don't think beryl-core gets pulled in by beryl-dev
<crimsun> it shouldn't, I hope
<crimsun> ok, that's ok, then. 
<crimsun> lupine_85: err, debian/changelog still contains these references to patches...
<crimsun> [http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4647 ] 
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/beryl-core-0703180630/beryl-core-0.2.1.dfsg+git20070318/debian/changelog
<imbrandon> err 
<lupine_85> I edited it.  I'm sure I did.  But i didn't? :( 
<crimsun> the version header certainly was edited, yes. 
<crimsun> hmm, doc/beryl-settings-dump.1 still needs a license
<racarr> err...
<racarr> lupine_85: Do we still HAVE beryl-settings-dump? 
<racarr> I don't have it
<lupine_85> not AFAIK
<racarr> remove the manpage then
<racarr> will do in git now
<siretart> isn't it possible anymore to open a bugtask for edgy? 
<imbrandon> siretart, afaik yes
<siretart> gnarf :/
<siretart> and how to say the bug is fixed in feisty, and I'm preparing an upload for edgy-proposed? 
<siretart> setting a milestone? 
* lupine_85 twiddles  his fingers and waits for revu to clear it's upload queue so he can reupload the upload
<imbrandon> siretart, open a bug, close it as fixed, then open a target for edgy
<imbrandon> and say in-progress
<imbrandon> on the same bug
<siretart> imbrandon: I think I've done so for bug #73771
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73771 in libaqbanking "crash in aqbanking qt3-wizard" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73771
<crimsun> ok, aside from those issues, I'm signing off on beryl-core
<imbrandon> lupine_85, if your uploading the same version number you need to remove your .upload file localy
<imbrandon> then you can reupload
<imbrandon> crimsun, great
<lupine_85> I knew that :) this was a server problem.  dcut appears to have fixed
<lupine_85> and we're reuploaded
<StevenK> dcut probably won't work for REVU
<imbrandon> ok as soon as it shows ( 5 minutes ) i'll regrab it 
<imbrandon> and upload since crimsun is now happy
<imbrandon> crimsun, next ?  we have -core and -manager down
<imbrandon> moins StevenK 
<siretart> the new policy for sru is in place, this means I can upload directly to edgy-proposed, no? 
* StevenK waves
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you can just remove the borked upload from revu, cant you? 
<imbrandon> siretart, yup
<siretart> great
<crimsun> imbrandon: need 5 to grab a drink
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i dunno i have admin on the web interface , but i dont know my exact powers , siretart could fill me in maybe ;)
<crimsun> (mins)
<imbrandon> crimsun, cool
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ssh. 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i can ssh yes , that dosent mean i'm gonna rm things i dunno about 
<imbrandon> hehe
<lupine_85> the one on the serv0r now is the right one
<Hobbsee> lupine_85: which was the upload? 
<lupine_85> beryl-core
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, its fixed
<lupine_85> I dcut the bad one, and dput the good one
<Hobbsee> ah yeah, it is now
<imbrandon> so its moot anyhow
* lupine_85 is quite proud he finally worked out the -m field to dcut
<Hobbsee> permissions aree still screwed on it too.   oh well
* Hobbsee cant view files, but can rm them.   go figure
<imbrandon> lupine_85, 4649 the latest upload ? 
<lupine_85> erm, let me check
<imbrandon> it was
<imbrandon> beryl-core archived and uploaded
<imbrandon> brb in ~5 minutes , smoke / mt dew run
<lupine_85> heh, you're fast :)
<imbrandon> takes no time when you have 4+ people working on it at once ;)
<lupine_85> mm
<racarr> that was one impressive REVU chain
<racarr> review chain
* Hobbsee contemplates REVU fridays. 
<racarr> I have a bad habit of substituting homonyms when I haven't slept
* Hobbsee thought that sending an email REQUIRED YOU TO BE ONLINE, YOU MORON! 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yup thats what i said at the MC meeting , REVU fridays after feisty opens
<Hobbsee> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/93344
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 93344 in Ubuntu "launchpad unsuitable for reporting bugs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Hobbsee> the other point isnt quite so stupid. 
<crimsun> beryl-plugins has the same COPYING issue that beryl-core did
<racarr> crimsun: Agh, time for another debian/patch
<racarr> Err, I think I have a key in the REVU keyring, but can I update the packages that lupine originally uploaded? 
<racarr> or does he have to? 
<StevenK> Hobbsee: He's a bit precious, though
<imbrandon> racarr, you can reupload the same package yes
<racarr> ok I'll go ahead and fix it then
<racarr> ...have to find what key I used
<imbrandon> you have multi gpg keys ? 
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hrm? 
<Hobbsee> ahh
<lupine_85> racarr: I'm around, sorry
<imbrandon> also note Hobbsee you can report a bug via email
<imbrandon> to LP
<lupine_85> but you can commit the change if you like
<lupine_85> I'm almost there with b-s-s I think
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's what i thought. 
<racarr> lupine_85: I'll go ahead and do it so you can keep on working on b-s-s
<lupine_85> ...oh yes
<racarr> lupine_85: And the other packages, heh
<lupine_85> who tehe man? 
<afflux> ah, gpg... one question: does the ubuntu keyserver sync with any other keyservers? 
<lupine_85> the*
<imbrandon> ok onto -plugins
<imbrandon> afflux, yes
<afflux> imbrandon: alright.  so no need to upload a changed key to every single server. 
<imbrandon> shouldent no
<afflux> k, thank you
<lupine_85> done with b-s-s
<racarr> ok.  getting ready to upload new beryl-plugins then will do the same for others
<racarr> Ok, uploading...
<racarr> ok, any other problems with -plugins ? 
<lupine_85> racarr: it's huge :p
<crimsun> src/animation_tex.h references ../images/animation-fire-particle.png, which doesn't exist. 
<lupine_85> ...it should...
<racarr> mm my upload doesn't seem to have gone through
<racarr> at least
<racarr> the .diff.gz for beryl-plugins doesn't have the changes I just dput
<lupine_85> crappola
<imbrandon> racarr, it takes 5 minutes
<lupine_85> I commited it! 
<imbrandon> to show up
<lupine_85> last night
<racarr> imbrandon: Ah
<racarr> ok will fix other packages with same COPYING issue then
<racarr> which is probably all of them
<lupine_85> curses, that means the thumbnail and shaders and group is in the same situation
<lupine_85> where the Hel did that commit go? 
<crimsun> lupine_85: indeed
<racarr> beryl-settings copying is fine...
<racarr> unsupported is fine
<lupine_85> racarr: 4501 to 4507...
<racarr> emerald good...
<racarr> lupine_85: ? 
<lupine_85> [11:29]  <crimsun> src/animation_tex.h references ../images/animation-fire-particle.png, which doesn't exist. 
<lupine_85> and all the other issues he's about to spot if he's any good
<lupine_85> ;)
<racarr> yes, but 4501 to 4507 what? 
<racarr> and err,  make sure you grab my COPYING fix so you don't knock it out next time you upload
<lupine_85> racarr: on svn
<lupine_85> I committed them, but they're not in the tarball and it's doing my nut 
<racarr> Are they in
<racarr> extradist? 
<racarr> in Makefile.am
<racarr> ? 
<lupine_85> ...no...
<lupine_85> that would be it
<racarr> yeah that might be a problem
<lupine_85> heh
<lupine_85> there's a reason I'm not in charge, and this is it ;)
<racarr> is copyright in beryl-plugins-unsupported good to go lupine? 
<racarr> um no it's not
<racarr> not at all
<racarr> I'll upload...
<racarr> the unsupported copyright references plugins that aren't even in unsupported heh
<racarr> it's a copy of the (before I fixed it) beryl-plugins copyright
<lupine_85> heh, oh dear
<racarr> ok
<racarr> uploaded a new one
* lupine_85 is working on beryl-plugins to get those sources back in the tarball
<racarr> make sure to sync from it before you upload anything else
<racarr> anything else to -unsupported that is
<racarr> imbrandon: crimsun: Any other problems with -plugins so far? 
<lupine_85> ok
<lupine_85> I'm just in b-p right now
<racarr> We are fixing a lot of things through this
<racarr> kind of nice
<lupine_85> but there's a couple of group textures that need to go into beryl-plugins-unsupported
<racarr> lupine_85: New tarball? 
<racarr> well
<racarr> the tarball just has to be remade
<racarr> not a new point release or anything
<racarr> well..mm
<lupine_85> yeah, that's what I meant
<imbrandon> ok back
<imbrandon> so where we at
<imbrandon> still on -plugins >
<racarr> lupine_85: I'll do it
<imbrandon> ? 
<racarr> imbrandon: Yeah we found a few missing files, heh
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> hilight me when its time to look on revu
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> lupine_85: in the next upload of beryl-core, make sure you demote beryl-plugins to Recommends
<racarr> imbrandon: Would be good to look over the other stuff as well
<crimsun> lupine_85: beryl-plugins Depends on beryl-core already
<lupine_85> racarr: the beryl-plugins tarball is now build
<imbrandon> see we'll make MOTU out of you yet racarr / lupine_85 :)
<racarr> lupine_85: Funfun
<lupine_85> crimsun: ok :)
<lupine_85> more circular depends
<crimsun> yep
<racarr> lupine_85: I'll make the new -unsupported tarball
<imbrandon> unsupported ? 
<racarr> beryl-plugins-unsupported
<racarr> missing files there as well apparently
<imbrandon> oh
<racarr> and a broken debian/copyright, but that's already fixed...beyond that should be good
<imbrandon> ok i'm gonna do some work work stuff for a bit, hilight me when its time for -plugins
<racarr> lupine_85: Ah!  you know what isn't snow in -unsupported
<racarr> are the snow images there? 
<racarr> I...don't see any
<crimsun> in -plugins's debian/copyright, please enumerate explicitly the "original compiz plugins"
<racarr> crimsun: I will do it, but why? 
<lupine_85> racarr: it's group in -unsupported
<lupine_85> that's the missing images
<racarr> well
<racarr> snow.c is in unsupported/src
<racarr> and there are no snow images
<racarr> so...
<lupine_85> oh... strange
<lupine_85> mm, I have the image and no plugin! 
<racarr> sigh, I'll fix it all
<racarr> heh
<racarr> theres not even a Makefile.am in the images/ directory
<crimsun> racarr: it's for clarity
<lupine_85> crimsun: I take it that goes for me (beryl-plugins) too? 
<racarr> err, he maent beryl-plugins lupine
<lupine_85> ah, ok
<racarr> lupine_85: Ok think I have everything in unsupported fixed...
<racarr> crimsun: It seems odd to me to do that somehow, because for example scale is an 'original compiz plugin'
<racarr> but it's about 20% compiz right now
<racarr> so
<crimsun> racarr: all that's needed is to list those in parentheses
<racarr> ok
<racarr> as soon as I get new -unsupported up will do
<racarr> distchecking now...
<crimsun> if the _tex.h and _shader.h issues are fixed, I can sign off on -plugins
<lupine_85> just about done here
<lupine_85> racarr: so you added snowflake2.png to unsupported? 
<racarr> yeah but the whole build system there is broken...it will be just a second
<lupine_85> no worries, I just need to take it out of b-p or they'll conflict ;)
<racarr> automake doesn't want to generate the makefile in images/...
<racarr> (I made a Makefile.am and added it to subdirs...)
<racarr> oh
<racarr> doi
<racarr> AC_OUTPUT
<racarr> hehe
<lupine_85> OK, uploaded b-p
<racarr> think I have unsupported now, have to distcheck again
<imbrandon> ok once crimsun looks over the new b-p upload i'll build test
<lupine_85> you guys are all being incredibly helpful :)
<racarr> lupine_85: If you aren't working on anything else can you fix copyright like crimsun suggested? 
<racarr> Yes, very much so
<lupine_85> racarr: the original compiz plugins are enumerated
<racarr> lupine_85: Ok
<lupine_85> beryl-core... best check
<lupine_85> crimsun: ah, when you said next upload of beryl-core, did you mean for 0.2.2, or "upload onto revu some point soon"? 
<racarr> mm I guess I will have to upload the debian packaging for the images as well? 
<lupine_85> (for the circular dep)
<crimsun> lupine_85: for the next one, -0ubuntu2
<lupine_85> ok
<lupine_85> so bump changelog and upload it now, or wait? 
<lupine_85> sorry, I'm being rather dense
<crimsun> lupine_85: it's not critical; it can wait until -core is accepted into Ubuntu
* ajmitch looks in & sees nothing but beryl again
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's going into the archive this time - sitting in NEW, it seems. 
<lupine_85> ok
<ajmitch> joy
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i can whine about the insane people at my work, though.   bloody customers. 
* ajmitch shrugs
<lupine_85> aquamarine and b-s-b have incorrect COPYINGs - so i'll fix them
<imbrandon> ajmitch, me crimsun lupine_85 and racarr been working on it the last few hours
<imbrandon> some is uploaded already
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so I've seen
<racarr> days
<racarr> months
<racarr> years
<imbrandon> haha
<racarr> probably hours
<racarr> lupine_85: More problems with unsupported...translations are screwed up
<racarr> sigh this might be a few minutes
<imbrandon> lupine_85, 0.2.2
<imbrandon> err nevermind
<racarr> when we tagged this as -unsupported we really meant it
<imbrandon> ok crimsun signoff on -plugins ? 
<crimsun> imbrandon: not quite
<imbrandon> k
* imbrandon makes a pot of coffee
<lupine_85> racarr: hehe
<crimsun> I'd be more comfortable if bench_tex.h and thumbnail_tex.h explicitly listed the xcf filenames instead of using a wildcard
<racarr> I'll be right back
<crimsun> otherwise -plugins looks good to go
<racarr> going to get more coffee while -unsupported dist checks...(again)
<crimsun> lupine_85: does -plugins intend to remain with those explicit filenames in images/ ? 
<crimsun> lupine_85: (for the shader sources)
<lupine_85> crimsun: I can change if you prefer
<lupine_85> the shaders are in a .tar
<lupine_85> oh, I see what you mean
<lupine_85> yeah, the filenames aren't going to change
<lupine_85> I can get rid of the wildcard if you like
<crimsun> lupine_85: I think it makes more sense to use explicit filenames
<lupine_85> ok
<geser> what it the more recent syntax for specifying source version depends?  ${Source-Version} or ${source:Version}? 
<lupine_85> aquamarine and b-s-b reuploaded anyway
<racarr> err, back for a few minutes
<racarr> ...and distcheck failed again
<racarr> dear god has no one updated unsupported in a month? 
<racarr> :p
<racarr> people have removed plugins without removing them from the build system...
<racarr> POTFILE.in, etc
<crimsun> geser: the latter
<lupine_85> that's what we use, I think
<racarr> ok back
<racarr> and distcheck worked! 
<lupine_85> b-p uploaded
<geser> should -dev packages use ${source:Version} or ${binary:Version} for the depends on the lib? 
<racarr> ok...let me do a testbuild of the packaging...
<crimsun> geser: IIRC there's a binNMU summary on the Debian wiki that summarises
<imbrandon> ok lupine_85 whats b-p's number in revu ? 
<imbrandon> i'll grab and testbuild
<crimsun> 4657
<lupine_85> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4657
<lupine_85> heh
<lupine_85> anyway, sorry to dump you guys in it but I have to run to the shop - it closes relatively soon.  won't be long. 
<racarr> ok
<racarr> I'll be uploading nu-unsupported in about 5 minutes
<racarr> did you already fix core recommends plugins? 
<lupine_85> racarr: that's for next time we upload a new version
<crimsun> it's ok, I need to get some sleep now
<crimsun> thanks for your work! 
<lupine_85> sleep?  what's that? 
<lupine_85> and thanks for yours :)
<imbrandon> crimsun, thanks, gnight
<crimsun> the thing you get after 40 hours ;)
<lupine_85> heh, I'm on ~30 without right now
<racarr> Thanks again crimsun
<lupine_85> my record was coming on close to 60
<imbrandon> lupine_85 / racarr we can take this up again ( after my -plugins upload ) if you want in about ~8 to ~10 hours, so you can get some rest if you like
<imbrandon> because i'll be heading to bed in a few hours ( 2 or 3 )
<racarr> imbrandon: It's good, I actually went to sleep around 3PM yesterday and woke up at 10PM or so
<racarr> so err...I'm not that tired
<racarr> heh
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> ok
<racarr> (I'm eastern so it's 8:34 am now)
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> plugins seems to be missing a dep or soemthing
* imbrandon loosk a bit closer
<imbrandon> checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
<imbrandon> make: *** [config.status]  Error 1
<imbrandon> lupine_85 / racarr , can you check the builddeps , brb coffee is done
<racarr> imbrandon: Yeah right after I finish unsupported
<imbrandon> k
<racarr> which I think is now but want to run lintian etc
<racarr> err...it says already uploaded when I try to dput :/
<imbrandon> rm *.upload
<racarr> ok, that's good
<racarr> imbrandon: Looks like it needs libxml-parser-perl? 
<racarr> -plugins that is
<imbrandon> probably, and i can do that localy, but i wanted to make sure thats how you wanted to roll
<racarr> mm actually
<imbrandon> its your package , we're just "helping" ;)
<racarr> that's not right intltool should depend on that...
<racarr> maybe it doesn't depend on intltool
<racarr> yes intltool depends on that
<racarr> but plugins doesn't depend on intltool
<ajmitch> night all
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch 
<racarr> imbrandon: Fixed intltool dependency
<imbrandon> racarr, ok i fixed it localy too
<racarr> build depend on intltool is what I did
<imbrandon> and rebuilding
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> ok next depends error
<imbrandon> checking for ANNOTATE... yes
<imbrandon> checking for DBUS... configure: error: Package requirements (dbus-1) were not met:
<imbrandon> No package 'dbus-1' found
<imbrandon> ......
<imbrandon> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
<imbrandon> installed software in a non-standard prefix. 
<imbrandon> did anyone testbuild these in a clean env ? 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: unlikely. 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, :)
<racarr> I haven't been involved in the packaging before the last 12 hours
<racarr> so not sure
<imbrandon> racarr, ahh ok
<imbrandon> lupine_85 ?? 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i know a lot of people dont. 
<racarr> imbrandon: So what's the build dependency there?  dbus? 
<racarr> dbus-1 seems obsoleted
<racarr> ah no
<racarr> libdbus-1-dev
<racarr> imbrandon: I'll upload agaaiin
<racarr> and uploaded...
<racarr> imbrandon: If you want to fix it locally it's a build depends on libdbus-1-dev, no runtime dependencies
<imbrandon> yea sorry was afk
<imbrandon> yup 
<racarr> just looking at the control
<racarr> I think we are missing a dependency for a jpeg library as well (not...sure which one...)
<racarr> but see if it builds, I might be wrong
<racarr> lupine would know as he wrote the jpeg plugin
<imbrandon> yea i'll let you know about each one so you can fix it there as i fix it here
<imbrandon> well it made it past configure
<racarr> Mm, I tend to avoid packaging, but this is vaugely enjoyable in a strange way
<imbrandon> so if it needs it 
<imbrandon> it dosent act like it
<imbrandon> racarr, haha
<racarr> at least, things are getting done, and that's good
<imbrandon> ok while that builds i'm gonna go smoke and enjoy a bit of coffee
<imbrandon> back in ~15
<racarr> okies
<imbrandon> racarr, right right
<imbrandon> hahaha yea 
<imbrandon> it failed before i even stoodup
<racarr> where? 
<racarr> jpeg? 
<imbrandon> on jpeg, looks like it needs it but config dosent look fot it
<racarr> yeah...ok I'll look in to that in just a minute
<imbrandon> k any idea what lib he linked against ? 
<racarr> no
<imbrandon> hehe , see this is why a clean chroot is good :)
<racarr> but I can look at what functions he used
<racarr> and then use google
<imbrandon> right
<racarr> brah, -unsupported is still broken
<racarr> let me fix that first
<racarr> oh no, it's good
<racarr> mm libjpeg62-dev
<racarr> (apt-file to the rescue)
<Hobbsee> ! info libjpeg62-dev feisty
* Hobbsee kicks ubotu 
<ubotu> libjpeg62-dev: Development files for the IJG JPEG library.  In component main, is optional.  Version 6b-13 (feisty), package size 180 kB, installed size 416 kB
<Hobbsee> oh, it is main
<racarr> heh, yeah already checked
<racarr> imbrandon: Fixed and uploaded
<racarr> build depends on libjpeg62-dev is the solution (so you can apply locally)
<racarr> I bet build dependencies on unsupported are broken...
<racarr> yep
<racarr> oh
<racarr> no I just can't read
<geser> libberyldecoration.a(main.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<geser> when trying to build beryl-plugins
<geser> on amd64
<racarr> oo it should be compiled with -fPIC
<imbrandon> ahh add -fPIC to the configure in debian/rules
<imbrandon> geser, 
* imbrandon does that localy also 
<racarr> yeah...I'll...do...that
<racarr> err, my changes don't seem to be showing up on
<racarr> revu
<racarr> is it always 5 minutes? 
<geser> imbrandon: -fPIC should go into beryl-core, shouldn't it? 
<TomaszD> Hobbsee, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnomad2/+bug/93226 ?  Please? :) 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 93226 in gnomad2 "UVF exception for Gnomad2 2.8.11" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Hobbsee> TomaszD: btw, that other bug wasnt a straight rebuild
<TomaszD> btw Hobbsee, someone fixed and uploaded gnomad 2.8.8
<imbrandon> geser, no afaik, -plugins is what you were compiling
<Hobbsee> TomaszD: yeah, StevenK did.   i didnt have time to look at it yet, and he asked me if i wanted him to
<Hobbsee> TomaszD: i'm not part of UVF - i cant do anything with that bug
<TomaszD> but still, shouldn't gnomad2 depend on libmtp5 if it build-depends on limtp-dev? 
<TomaszD> Hobbsee, alright. 
<Hobbsee> TomaszD: we took the upstream patch for the libmtp thing
<Hobbsee> TomaszD: no need to use the entire new version, as such. 
<TomaszD> alright, but my question still stands, gnomad2 depends on libnjb5 for NJB devices, should it not depend on libmtp5 for MTP devices? 
<racarr> libberyldecoration is in core
<racarr> libdecoration is in plugins
<Hobbsee> TomaszD: you need to wait for the source to build.   it should already have libnjb5 as a dep
<Hobbsee> assuming the shlibdeps are working as normal
<TomaszD> you mean libmtp5? :) 
<TomaszD> ok
<Hobbsee> er, yeah
<TomaszD> I'm sorry, I'm quite ignorant about this stuff and didn't know it takes the dep automatically
<Hobbsee> it's fine
<racarr> imbrandon: So what
<racarr> imbrandon: Err, so what's all this about fPIC?  where is it missing? ( hit enter too early)
<TomaszD> alright, session reload for daily langpack 
<imbrandon> it will be needed for amd64 builds in the configure part of debian/rules , dont worry about it right this second though, i can fix that with a -0ubuntu2 upload or something
<imbrandon> and send you a patch
<racarr> imbrandon: I seem to be having a problem with REVU and beryl-plugins.......
<racarr> imbrandon: I fix the dependency in debian/control
<racarr> debuild -S -sa 
<racarr> then dput the changes, all that good stuff
<racarr> and it hsows an upload happened
<imbrandon> i just buildt it successfully
<racarr> but my changes never appear :/
<imbrandon> hum one sec
<racarr> as in, it shows an upload
<imbrandon> you dput revu[..]  right ? 
<imbrandon> not dput [..] 
<racarr> but  when I browse in the directory
<racarr> I have revu set to default_host_main in dput.cf
<imbrandon> ok
<racarr> again the comments page
<racarr> is showing that I made an upload
<racarr> but when I click on the DIR entry and browse to debian/control
<racarr> it's not changing
<Hobbsee> have you clicked on the bottom entry? 
<Hobbsee> ie, the latest one? 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea its not showing
<imbrandon> how long has the upload been ? 
<imbrandon> e.g. more than ~5 minutes
<racarr> imbrandon: Ah!  yes it is I was stupid
<Hobbsee> ah
<racarr> imbrandon: I didn't realize I have to click on the upload (March 18 09:05)
<racarr> then click on  the dir
<imbrandon> right ;)
<racarr> ok well it should be good now, but I would be more comfortable if you could try building a version you download from REVU
<racarr> before uploading what's on REVU
<imbrandon> ok that one seems fine now, and crimsun signed off on it also before he left, so i'm gonna upload it now
<imbrandon> i just did
<racarr> ok
<imbrandon> dpkg-deb: building package `beryl-plugins' in `../beryl-plugins_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'. 
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i always testbuild before i upload
<imbrandon> well almost always ;)
<racarr> hehe
<racarr> ok, want to try beryl-settings now
<racarr> that should be an easy/quick one
<imbrandon> did you finish up -unsupported ? 
<racarr> Mm, as far as I know it's finished up
<racarr> but there were a lot of problems
<racarr> so I might have missed something
<imbrandon> k i'll look at that one next , you can start on -settings
<imbrandon> look for obvious stuff first ;)
<racarr> ok
<imbrandon> and invite Hobbsee to have a looksee ;)
<imbrandon> :P
* imbrandon ducks
* Hobbsee beats imbrandon to a pulp
<imbrandon> we started with 5 of us now down to 2
* Hobbsee isnt doing any such thing at this time of night
<imbrandon> we need more help crimsun lupine_85 and ajmitch went to slee
<imbrandon> p
<imbrandon> hehe
<racarr> lupine will be back soon he said
<racarr> right? 
<imbrandon> ahh dunno
<imbrandon> i figured he dropped off the planet after 30 hours of no sleep
<imbrandon> ;)
<racarr> no he said he went to the store
<racarr> because it closed soon
<stgraber> imbrandon: He's going to try 2 days without a sleep :)
<racarr> mm, need to update beryl-settings AUTHORS, copyright, etc
<racarr> someone else contributed a lot to it recently
<imbrandon> racarr, ok so unsupported is uptodate on revu
<imbrandon> as far as you know ? 
<racarr> imbrandon: Yes
<imbrandon> k
<racarr> ah beryl-settings dependencies are broken
<racarr> it depends on libxml-parser-perl instead of intltool
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> see you stay one ahead of me on the packages we'll get the rest done fast :)
<racarr> and I ripped the beryl-settings packaging when I made the beryl-settings-simple packaging (It's the only thing I packaged, and I hate it anyway :p)
<racarr> so that's broken as well
<racarr> heh
<Adri2000> should I subscribe ubuntu-archive when uploading an sru to -proposed? 
<nixternal> hola imbrandon
<racarr> imbrandon: uploaded fixed -settings and -settings-simple, back to reviewing -settings...
<racarr> err, should beryl-settings be distributing an empty  NEWS file? 
<racarr>  imbrandon: Problem
<racarr> imbrandon: Two of the .pos in beryl-settings have typos
<racarr> one says "This is distributed under the same license as the PACKAGE package"
<racarr> and the other says "This is distributed under the same license as the es_AR package" (It's the es_AR po)
<racarr> Safe to correct that or do I need to contact the authors? 
<racarr> make that 5 (all three of the chinese translations are the same)
<racarr> well, I'm going to go ahead and upload a package under the assumption that it's fine
<imbrandon> yea i would say just fix the typos
<racarr> ok
<imbrandon> sorry was afk
<racarr> also, the beryl-settings-simple chinese translations
<racarr> list me as the author
<racarr> XD
<racarr> ...that makes no sense
<racarr> luckily the author lists themselves in another place
<imbrandon> heh
<racarr> and assign copyright to me (in 2 of them)
<racarr> I'm flattered
<imbrandon> -unsupported building now
<racarr> ok
<imbrandon> -plugins uploaded
<racarr> nice
<imbrandon> beryl-plugins_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
<imbrandon> beryl-core_0.2.1.dfsg+git20070318-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
<racarr> I've uploaded a new beryl-settings and -simple btw
<racarr> lots of fixes all easy though
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> after -unsupported gets done i'll grab those
<imbrandon> building takes a bit ;)
<racarr> yeah
<racarr> anyone who isn't filtering motu-reviewer emails in to a folder
<racarr> must be in a world of hurt right now
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i must say though the faster pbuilder aurora rocks
<imbrandon> makin this much shorter
<racarr> could you look over the packaging for -unsupported as well? 
<racarr> even if it builds I'm not sure it's all done correctly
<imbrandon> yes i'm eyeballing them too
<imbrandon> i'm not as good as crimsun but i check them ;)
<racarr> beryl-settings seems good but I think it has too many dependencies..
<racarr>  way too many
<pef> hello
<racarr> yeah um it depends on about 15 packages to build
<racarr> and it's a python script...
<racarr> who the heck did that
<gpocentek> hello pef :)
<imbrandon> racarr, dosent look to outragous
<imbrandon> ( and its 13 hehe )
<racarr> imbrandon: But it doesn't require any of those to build...building beryl-settings consists of
<pef> gpocentek: hello, I'm back ;)
<racarr> applying autotools to beryl-settings.in
<racarr> and then copying it to /usr/bin
<gpocentek> pef: awesome, I'm really happy to see you again :)
<racarr> so all it needs it cdbs and intltool...
<pef> gpocentek: thank you :) now I need some time to see how things have changed
<imbrandon> yea i'm not upto par on my python packing but it probably will still require some of those gtk* ones
<imbrandon> maybe only for run though
<racarr> imbrandon: Yes, only for run
<racarr> imbrandon: And they are in run dependencies already
<imbrandon> yea i see
<racarr> Uploading fix now...
<imbrandon> ok well if you want to strip it down and testbuild then reupload i would be more than happy
<imbrandon> ok
<racarr> Err, I don't have a great way to testbuild, as in no clean enviroment set up
<imbrandon> i can testbuild
<racarr> ok
<imbrandon> no biggie there
<racarr> unsupported still going? 
<imbrandon> unsupported is uploaded to NEW
<racarr> woo
<imbrandon> and archived on REVU
<racarr> beryl-settings-simple has the same crazy dependencies so fixing that as well
<racarr> imbrandon: Doing beryl-settings now? 
<imbrandon> was just getting ready to, i'll wait for your upload
<imbrandon> to slim the build-deps
<imbrandon> i need to check on a few other things for a minute anyhow
<racarr> already uploaded the beryl-settings
<imbrandon> k
<racarr> and yeah, I need to go for a few minutes as well
<racarr> be right back
<imbrandon> racarr, shouldent it still have python-central or something ? 
<imbrandon> gpocentek, got a sec ? 
<gpocentek> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> i'm jnot upto snuff on my python packageing, can you eyeball http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4667 also please
<imbrandon> s/jnot/not
<gpocentek> hum, beryl beryl
<imbrandon> gpocentek, yea me and crimsun and racarr and lupine_85 and ajmitch spent most of the night on it
<imbrandon> for sabdfl 
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> but everyone seems to have hit the bed but me and racarr :)
<imbrandon> we're going over them one by one and i'm getting them in the NEW queue
<gpocentek> I've seen this
<imbrandon> -core -plugins -manager -plugins-unsupported already done
<imbrandon> but my python skills lack ;)
<gpocentek> and what about the other packages sitting on REVU? :) 
<imbrandon> still waiting for the fine tooth comb
<gpocentek> I mean the ! beryl ones
<imbrandon> ahh thats after beryl ;)
<gpocentek> right
<imbrandon> REVU fridays ( even though its not Friday )
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> REVU weekends i guess lol
<imbrandon> nah serouisly trying to push this in because sabdfl really wants to see it in the archive, sooooooo
* imbrandon gets back to it ...
<gpocentek> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy for python
<racarr> ok back
<jwendell> how can i run 'automake' from debian/rules? 
<racarr> imbrandon: We went over beryl-settings quite a bit a wh ile ago because we had a lot of python policy issues (for our ubuntu.b-p.o repo)
<racarr> so it's probably pretty safe
<racarr> ...except the dependencies apparently
<racarr> it actually might need autotools-dev to build, but I don't think so...so let me know after you test in a clean build
<imbrandon> racarr, well it doesnt look like it , check that link , it dosent build-dep on pysupport or pycentral
<imbrandon> brb bio break
* imbrandon needs a book
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> racarr, and it looks like configure looks for the gtk packages , so it probably will need the builddeps
<imbrandon> checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
<imbrandon> checking for PYGTK... configure: error: Package requirements (pygtk-2.0) were not met:
<racarr> imbrandon: Ah, yeah...that needs to be removed from configure then
<racarr> imbrandon: And reading the python policy
<Lutin> imbrandon: I can update the package to make it comply with th python policy if you want
<imbrandon> Lutin, that would be great
<Lutin> imbrandon: k, doing it right now then
<racarr> Lutin: Yes, I know little about this, so that would be great
<racarr> Lutin: Could you do the same for beryl-settings-simple?  also on REVU, packaging is nearly identical
<imbrandon> Lutin, your in the REVU ring right?  just upload it over the old ones and let us know
<Lutin> imbrandon: upID 4667 on revu, right ? 
<imbrandon> yes
<Lutin> o
<Lutin> k
<imbrandon> 4667
<racarr> Lutin: Once I see how you fix beryl-settings I can probably actually work out how to fix beryl-settings-simple
<imbrandon> racarr, wanna fix the configure while he changes that >
<racarr> imbrandon: While he does that want to look at emerald? 
<racarr> imbrandon: err, I'll wait until after he fixes that to fix the configure
<racarr> imbrandon: So changes don't get written over
<Lutin> racarr: ok
<imbrandon> racarr, ok
<imbrandon> lets do -bindings next
<racarr> ok
<racarr> bindings SHOULD be good
<racarr> spent a while on it somewhere around midnight
<racarr> because it was pulling in every single X library for a build dependency because we had broken pkgconfig files
<racarr> heh
<imbrandon> yea looking it over its alot better than the others
<racarr> not sure if it complies with the python policy
<imbrandon> yea it does
<imbrandon> i was just looking at that
<racarr> ah, convenient
<racarr> ok...I would give that a test build then
<geser> racarr: for libemeraldengine-dev (or any other -dev package) use = ${binary:Version} to depend on versioned libemeraldengine0
<racarr> geser: Ok, I will fix that now
<imbrandon> hum the debian copyright is a little shakey in -settings
<imbrandon> other than that its looking ok
<imbrandon> geser, !!!! 
<geser> racarr: don't hard code the lib depends on emerald (use ${shlibs:Depends}
<racarr> imbrandon: settings-bindings or settings? 
<imbrandon> b-s-b
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/beryl-settings-bindings-0703180815/beryl-settings-bindings-0.2.1/debian/copyright
<racarr> imbrandon: Ok, will look at that after fixing emerald...
<imbrandon> kk
<racarr> geser: Mmm on emerald the dependencies wont show up in shlibs:Depends
<imbrandon> geser, have i told you how much i love you today ? 
<geser> racarr: libemeraldengine0 shouldn't depend on emerald (cyclic depends)
<racarr> emerald shouldn't depend on libemeraldengine I think...
<racarr> imbrandon: What's wrong with that copyright? 
<racarr> b-s-b that is
<racarr> it actually is 100% Quinn
<lupine_85> I'm back, mwahaha
<racarr> lupine_85: You need to update pretty much all of the packages
<racarr> before you upload anything
<racarr> heh
<racarr> as in update from REVU
<racarr> so you don't write over
<lupine_85> sorry about the time, I had to go miles and got caught in the snow
<lupine_85> np racarr
<Lutin> imbrandon, lupine_85 : is there something I am missing or upID 4667 is arch-indep ? 
<lupine_85> Lutin: it's python
<Lutin> ok
<racarr> geser: Uploaded a new emerald based on your fixes, thanks
<racarr> imbrandon: Ping? 
<imbrandon> racarr, sorry afk a min phone
<racarr> Ah, ok
<lupine_85> racarr: so, what should I work on? 
<geser> wow, beryl-manager is already build on all archs
<imbrandon> lupine_85, the copyright in b-s-b
<racarr> imbrandon: What's wrong with it? 
<lupine_85> it's all quinn isn't it? 
<racarr> imbrandon: It really is 100% quinns work...so
<imbrandon> # Beryl-Manager intl file. 
<imbrandon> # Copyright (C) 2006
<imbrandon> # This file is distributed under the same license as the beryl-manager package. 
<imbrandon> # cyberorg , 2006. 
<imbrandon> is a litte vague
<imbrandon> # Steveway (DE translation)
<racarr> ...ok
<racarr> I missed that
<racarr> heh
<lupine_85> heh, gotta love the translation stuff
<Lutin> imbrandon: is this for universe or main ? 
<imbrandon> Lutin, universe for the moment, it might be promoted to main sometime in the future
<racarr> Lutin: Universe right now, sabdfl implies we are going to try for main
<imbrandon> ok i have to make a phone call or two, back in a few, lupine_85 catch up with racarr, we got alot done
<racarr> imbrandon: Ok
<racarr> lupine_85: Err, lotslotslots done...including fixing the amusing fact that the beryl-settings-simple chinese translations were attributed to (and copyright assigned to) me
<racarr> That was the real high point
<imbrandon> geser, all arches?  its not in NEW still ? 
<lupine_85> ok
<lupine_85> That beryl-manager part looks like a complete misnomer
<racarr> yeah
<lupine_85> I'm guessing trevinho ust cp'd from beryl-manager
<lupine_85> there /is/ no intl file
<racarr> XD
<racarr> easy fix then
<geser> imbrandon: beryl-manager was already in universe
<imbrandon> geser, ahh
<racarr> ...oh
<racarr> I was excited for a second
<racarr> Lutin: Let me know when you upload beryl-setting fixes so I can do the equivalent for settings-simple
<imbrandon> ( and fix the configure hehe )
<racarr> yeah
<racarr> that too
<lupine_85> so, I suppose at the end we can go through all the .diff files and merge back into beryl properly :)
<racarr>  lupine_85: Uploading new -bindings?  besides that -bindings is good to go
<Lutin> racarr, lupine_85 : I can't get why pkg-config checks for python-gtk2 at compile-time.  clues ? 
<lupine_85> it's up
<racarr> Lutin: That's a mistake
<racarr> Lutin: I was going to fix that after you did your upload
<racarr> imbrandon: If you didn't catch it, lupine fixed b-s-b
<imbrandon> racarr, you might need to fix it first , so he can test build
<Lutin> racarr: please do it before, so I can run some build tests with the python thing
<imbrandon> ok racarr still on the phone , i'll get it in a sec
<lupine_85> just keep pointing me at things, people :)
<lupine_85> I feel really guilty for running off as I did
<lupine_85> hey... why don't we get sabdfl to help? 
<imbrandon> heh yea ..... um no
<racarr> Lutin: Ok, uploaded
<lupine_85> aww ;)
<Lutin> racarr: awesome, thanks
<racarr> lupine_85: Start looking for problems in the decorators
<racarr> after we get *-settings-*
<racarr> they are next
<racarr> lupine_85: I'm working on emerald, so can you check heliodor or aquamarine? 
<lupine_85> aquamarine is near perfect, I think... I'll double-check though
<racarr> heliodor then, hehe
<lupine_85> onestone seems to have more of a handle on licensing than quinn ;)
<lupine_85> ok, I'll do heliodor
<geser> beryl-settings-simple-0.2.1.1/debian/copyright: no tarball for it? 
<racarr> geser: ? 
<racarr> aj
<racarr> there is a tarball
<racarr> not...sure how that got there
<racarr> lupine_85: Why is it listed as coming from git? 
<geser> racarr: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/beryl-settings-simple-0703180955/beryl-settings-simple-0.2.1.1/debian/copyright lists a git+ssh url as download source
<racarr> geser: Yes, I see, lupine must have done that
<racarr> geser: That might be intentional, I can't recall exactly how we handled it earlier...
<imbrandon> that was only for -core
<racarr> well
<lupine_85> racarr: not quite
<racarr> -simple had tango icons that we removed...
<lupine_85> exactly
<lupine_85> and some other fixes too
<imbrandon> ah ok
<racarr> so, intentional
<racarr> geser: ^
<geser> ok
<imbrandon> is the tarball / version done as such ? 
<imbrandon> e.g. with dfsg and git+date
<racarr> well, the tango icons are gone in git as well
<racarr> so it doesn't need to be dfsg
<imbrandon> ok yea but it needs to be +git<date>
<racarr> lupine_85: You do it or me? 
<lupine_85> racarr: you?  
<racarr> lupine_85: Ok, I will
<lupine_85> hmm, according to debian/copyright, we're currently dual-licensing heliodor... :D
<racarr> Also just uploaded a new one for emerald with a few copyright things (man pagers, AUTHORS file, and updated a NEWS file indicating the version was 0.1)
<lupine_85> I assume it's safe to remove teh MIT part
<racarr> yeah
<lupine_85> heh, I missed all of lib/ on the first pass
<racarr> imbrandon: Do I need to change anything in debian/ for the +git
<racarr> or just the tarball name? 
<lupine_85> racarr: changelog
<imbrandon> debian/changelog versioning
<racarr> ok
<lupine_85> heliodor up; I'll check on aquamarine now
<racarr> err, what do I update in changelog? 
<racarr> theres already a changelog entry for the  fixes
<Lutin> racarr: why does it check beryl-settings-bindings as well ?  does it relies on it to be built ? 
<imbrandon> change the version number
<racarr> does it need to be
<lupine_85> racarr: the version (bit in the brackets)
<racarr> 0.2.1.1+gitDATE-0ubuntu1
<racarr> ? 
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> 2.1.1? 
<racarr> Lutin: That's a mistake as well
<imbrandon> what is it currectly ? 
<racarr> err
<imbrandon> currently*
<racarr> .1
<racarr> it should be .0
<Lutin> racarr: ok, fixing with the py thing then
<racarr> err, no .0
<racarr> Lutin: Ok, thanks
<imbrandon> 0.2.1+git20070318-0ubuntu1
<racarr> err, vaugely stupid question, is it important that the folder inside the tar
<racarr> be namedberyl-settings-simple-0.2.1+git20070318-0ubuntu1
<racarr> ? 
<racarr> err
<racarr> minus the -ubuntu1
<lupine_85> racarr: that's not important
<lupine_85> (beryl-core isn't either)
<imbrandon> no
<lupine_85> rename the tar.gz to the correct form, though ;)
<racarr> we have a bit of a confusion with .1.1
<racarr> so I need to fix that as well
<racarr> ok that should be good
<racarr> ok, uploaded fixed version
<racarr> What's up with beryl-settings-bindings? 
<racarr> uploaded to NEW yet? 
<lupine_85> ok aquamarine has 3 .po from the same person with no copyright info
<lupine_85> (all russian)
<racarr> lupine_85: dfsg for now, email author
<lupine_85> b-s-b is updated, racarr
<racarr> lupine_85: I know, wasn't sure if imbrandon had looked over it yet though
<lupine_85> ah, gotcha#
<racarr> lupine_85: copyright on emerald-themes all good? 
<racarr> Lutin: What's up with beryl-settings? 
<Lutin> racarr: building. 
<Lutin> racarr: had to update my pbuilder with a slow connec
<racarr> Ah, ok
<animimotus> jdong: well, conky or not conky that's the question :)
<racarr> I should be able to fix settings-simple from a debdiff
<lupine_85> racarr: emerald-themes should be fine
<racarr> ok...as soon as Lutin gets beryl-settings up and I'm able to oprt the changes to simple
<lupine_85> they're all GPL, an authors list is in AUTHORS, and inside each .emerald file is the full ownership details
<racarr> and imbrandom gets back
<racarr> we should be able to upload b-s-b, b-s and b-s-s
<racarr> and probably heliodor
<lupine_85> might need to mirror AUTHORS to debian/copyright, but that's it
<Lutin> racarr: modifiying configure.ac is not enough.  is it possible to re-generate a orig tarball (run autogen.sh) after those madifications ? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Yeah, probably need to I'll go ahead and do that...
<Lutin> modifications*
<racarr> Lutin: What do you mean? 
<Lutin> racarr: I mean that changing configure.ac is useless if you don't run autogen.sh afeter that
<racarr> Lutin: You can just run autoconf, and when you run
<Lutin> k
<racarr> debuild
<racarr> the configure changes
<racarr> will go in the diff.gz
<Lutin> racarr: autoconf fails with errors
<racarr> Lutin: Which? 
<Lutin> probably needs files that aren't distributed. 
<Lutin> ./VERSION
<racarr> yeah looks like we are missing
<racarr> yeah
<racarr> VERSION
<racarr> Lutin: That can also be fixed in the diff.gz
<Lutin> racarr: really, the simple way is to generate a new, clean tarball
<racarr> I don't think that's the simple way, that involves making a new upstream release
<racarr> or making it a git snapshot
<Lutin> sigh
<racarr> just make a VERSION file with
<racarr> VERSION=0.2.1
<Lutin> ...will patch configure
<racarr> ? 
<Lutin> it's ok :)
<racarr> ok, thanks
<Lutin> racarr: where can I get the release tarball ? 
<racarr> Lutin: releases.beryl-project.org, but don't you have the orig.tar.gz? 
<racarr> Lutin: http://releases.beryl-project.org/0.2.1/beryl-settings-0.2.1.tar.gz
<Lutin> racarr: just want to check what's been changed
<racarr> Lutin: From the git snapshot, just a few packing fixes, and using GTK stock icons instead of two tango icons
<racarr> By packing I mean widget packing
<Lutin> k
<racarr> But neccesary, because err without the packing fixes things go off the edge of the window strangely
<racarr> and the icons are non GPl compatible
<racarr> so
<Lutin> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> Lutin, i'm here but still on the phone
<Lutin> racarr: ok.  just waiting imbrandon to come back to make sure I do thing the right way about the pkg-config thing
<imbrandon> i'll be back in action in a few
<imbrandon> Lutin, what about it ? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Are you dfsging aquamarine? 
<Lutin> imbrandon: there are little things to change in the configure, what's the better solution: 1/ just modify configure without any patchsystem.  2/ the same, with a patchsystem.  3/patch configure.ac and call autoconf from debian/rules
<racarr> As far as I know the best solution is to patch configure.ac and then run autoconf before building the package...but
<imbrandon> Lutin, totaly upto you, #3 is what i would personaly dso
<imbrandon> do*
<racarr> why do you need to call autoconf deom debian/rules? 
<racarr> from*
<imbrandon> racarr, because it will unpack a new tar when it tries to build on the buildd
<imbrandon> so it neesds to apply the patch and re run the autoconf
<racarr> but if the configure is changed (after running autoconf)
<racarr> it will be in the diff.gz
<Lutin> imbrandon: ok, will do that the clean way then.  patchsystem and debian/rules call
<racarr> and applied when the tar is unpacked
<racarr> Right? 
<imbrandon> racarr, yea but thats ugly , heh
<Lutin> racarr: ugly
<racarr> ok
<geser> how big are the changes to configure? 
<Lutin> lemme check
<geser> you could patch configure and configure.ac
<racarr> well, two lines removed in configure.ac afaik
<imbrandon> true
<Lutin> geser: no point in patching configure.ac if I patch configure
<imbrandon> Lutin, sure there is incase someone else wants to regen the autoconf
<racarr> I think he meant what I was talking about
<racarr> patch configure.ac
<racarr> run autoconf
<imbrandon> no 
<imbrandon> patch them both from debian/patches
<imbrandon> is what geser said
<lupine_85> racarr: trying
<Lutin> imbrandon: yep, but that'd need one more file which is not in the orig tar (./VERSION)
<racarr> imbrandon: Mm, ok
<lupine_85> I just can't get a tarball out
<imbrandon> Lutin, ahh hrm
<Lutin> imbrandon: so I can do that + add the file as a patch.  it's a oneliner
* imbrandon is too tired to use his brain atm
<imbrandon> right
<Lutin> ok.  thanks geser and imbrandon 
<racarr> imbrandon: -bindings should be ready to upload now...
<imbrandon> racarr, cool ok, i'll do that in a sec
<imbrandon> and b-s and b-s-s after Lutin is done right ? 
<racarr> b-s after Lutin is done
<racarr> then I'm going to fix b-s-s based off a debdiff
<imbrandon> ( just so i'm on the same page here, like i said getting tired )
<racarr> so a bit longer for b-s-s
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> sure thing
<racarr> heliodor and emerald should be ready as well
<imbrandon> brb
<racarr> and emerald-themes
<racarr> well emerald-themes definitely
<racarr> heliodor and emerald lupine and I think
* lupine_85 sets fire to aquamarine
<imbrandon> ok geser can you once over emerald* and heliodor , while i finish up the beryl-settings*
<imbrandon> i'll upload them after build test geser , just make sure they arent missing something please ;)'
<imbrandon> brb
<racarr> Lutin: I just realized I said something wrong earlier
<racarr> Lutin: beryl-settings isn't a git snapshot, just beryl-settings-simple
<Lutin> racarr: what ? 
<Lutin> ok
<racarr> and the tango icon stuff, packing fixes, etc, were also in beryl-settings-simple, heh
<racarr> sorry, been at this for a while and my brain is melting
<Lutin> I hate configure patching.  it's nothing but pain. * g*
<zachtib> So, I have what may be an unusual request/question...
<zachtib> What would it take to get a package removed from the universe repository? 
<imbrandon> a good reason and a request on LP
<imbrandon> why? 
<zachtib> Well, I'm the developer of the Deluge Bittorrent Client, and the version in Feisty is 0.4.1
<zachtib> which is a badlyt broken release
<imbrandon> ok , its better to update it then remove it
<zachtib> I've been trying to get a UVF for 0.5, but it's been largely unsuccessful, and I don't want to be stuck supporting a broken version for the lifetime of feisty
<imbrandon> soooo i would see who packaged it, poke them, file a UVFe for it stating why its broke and it will be updated
<imbrandon> unsuccessfull how? 
<zachtib> how do I know who packaged it?  I know the debian packager, but not the ubuntu one
<zachtib> imbrandon: they won't accept it, more or less
<racarr> lupine_85: Still having aquamarine woes? 
<zachtib> They've asked for a lot of things that I don't exactly know how to produce, or don't apply to the situation
<imbrandon> most of the time its the same, and wont accept it why, they normaly give you a reason, i have never seen them say "no"
<imbrandon> ahh now that is diffrent
<imbrandon> then when you come here adn ask how to produce those things and get the UVFe ;)
<imbrandon> if i wasent dead tired i would help but i'm about to fall asleep in my chair, if you want email me the bug number ( imbrandon@ubuntu.com ) and i'll look at it when i wake
<imbrandon> and see if i cant help you 
<zachtib> for instance, they want a diff of the upstream tarballs, 0.5 is a complete rewrite of 0.4, plus it has a secondary project, python-libtorrent merged with it
<zachtib> imbrandon: ok
<racarr> mm, I don't have anything to do with packaging until beryl-settings is up...
<racarr> lupine_85: know of anything else that needs to be done/
<Lutin> racarr: VERSION=0.2.1, right ? ( for the VERSION file)
<lupine_85> just...aqua.. sorry
<racarr> Lutin: Yeah
<Lutin> k
<lupine_85> i just can't get it
<Lutin> i'm almost done
<racarr> lupine_85: What are your problems? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Can we roll a new upstream tarball as a 0.2.1.1 so you don't have to dfsg? 
<lupine_85> racarr: I can't get a new tarball, full stop
<imbrandon> why? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Did you reapply (if you unapplied somehow) the patch that fixed the error raised with the libberylsettings pkgconfig change? 
<lupine_85> as in, I ./autogen.sh and it doesn't know about make dist, make distcheck, etc
<racarr> lupine_85: It's using KDEs build system because uh
<racarr> yeah
<racarr> lupine_85: We should google around for documentation
<racarr> lupine_85: also, iXce knows
<racarr> lupine_85: Check beryl-dev...iXce has a script
<lupine_85> I might have a package
<lupine_85> there's no dodgy translations in.. I removed them directly in the source and built
<racarr> ? 
<racarr> lupine_85: http://guillaume.segu.in/aquamarineRelease.sh
<lupine_85> ok... let's see how this goes ;)
<geser> how tightly is emerald depending on libemeraldengine0? 
<geser> is same upstream version ok or needs it a tighter depends? 
<racarr> geser: Same upstream version is ok
<racarr> geser: Didn't I upload a package with emerald not depending on libemeraldengine0? 
<racarr> because I don't think it should
<racarr> but libemeraldengine0 should depend on emerald
<geser> than use ${source:Version} (${Source-Version} is the old syntax)
<racarr> geser: ok
<geser> racarr: emerald doesn't depend on libemeraldengine0 anymore but libemeraldengine0 depends on emerald
<racarr> geser: Ok, yes, that's how it's supposed to be
<geser> so emeral doesn't link to libemeraldengine0? 
<racarr> geser: Uploaded a new package with the syntax correctly
<racarr> geser: I can double check but I don't think it does...
<racarr> I might misunderstand something
<racarr> geser: Yes, it does, I was wrong
<racarr> the dependency needs to be reversed
<lupine_85> ok, uploading an aquamarine
<lupine_85> aaah, forget that.  that was a crap upload. 
<racarr> geser: Put up a fixed emerald
<racarr> geser: Thanks, I completely misunderstood that (Don't mess with emerald much, heh)
<geser> heliodor-dev: shouldn't it depend on libmetacity-dev (instead of libmetacity0)
<racarr> Presuming you mean builddepends? 
<geser> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, beryl-dev, libmetacity0
<geser> for Package: heliodor-dev
<racarr> oh, no I don't think it needs a Depends on libmetacity-dev...
<geser> doesn't ${shlibs:Depends} detect it? ( also for package heliodor)
<racarr> Yes, it should
<imbrandon> ok fella's i need to catch a few hours sleep, geser you gonna finish helping them with the review packages and then when i wake i'll do one final once over on the things i havent uploaded already and upload the rest, sound like a plan?  
<racarr> I don't know why libmetacity0 is added
<racarr> imbrandon: Ok, In an hour or two though I will leave until around 6:30 est...but someone else should be able to work with it
<geser> imbrandon: will try my best
<lupine_85> aquamarine up for real this time
<imbrandon> geser / racarr / lupine_85 , rockin, PM me if something is still pending when you all go offline and i'll make sure to skip those
<racarr> Lutin: Anyway I can help with -settings ? 
<Lutin> sorry guys, was on the phone.  going to upload b-s in the next 5 min
<racarr> imbrandon: Ok
<racarr> Lutin: aha, ok
<imbrandon> you all rock, thanks for all the hard work tonight
<lupine_85> ok :)
<lupine_85> you too :D
<racarr> yeah, thanks imbrandon
<imbrandon> i'll be back on in ~9 hours
<racarr> okies, sounds good
<racarr> I will be on then as well...
<lupine_85> ah, I'll be long asleep by then
<geser> lupine_85: isn't the depends for aquamarine on libqt3-mt detected by ${shlibs:Depends}? 
<lupine_85> ah, yes it is....
* lupine_85 feels silly
<lupine_85> re-uploaded
<racarr> lupine_85: Anything else that needs doing? 
<lupine_85> racarr: I don't think so
<racarr> lupine_85: Theres a dependenyc on heliodor that will be detected by ${shlib:Depends}
<racarr> if you want to fix that quickly...or I can
* lupine_85 will grab
<Lutin> geser: phew.  I think Im finally done. 
<lupine_85> racarr: libmetacity0 >
<lupine_85> ? 
<racarr> lupine_85: Yes, in the Depends:
<racarr> Lutin: Woo!  thanks! 
<lupine_85> no problem
<lupine_85> cool, Lutin
<lupine_85> racarr: uploads0red
<racarr> lupine_85: funfun
<Lutin> geser: just uploaded beryl-settings, if you want to have a look at it.  just hope I haven't done anything ugly
<racarr> I will port changes to settings-simple shortly
<Lutin> damn, I forgot the licenses fix
<racarr> Lutin: There was a licenses problem with beryl-settings? 
<Lutin> racarr: some po were modified
<Lutin> 2 min, reuploading ;)
<racarr> err I uploaded modified pos a long time ago I think
<Lutin> ok, so no need to modify them ? 
<racarr> assuming I remember correctly and you didn't overwrite my changes
<racarr> all is good
<racarr> err
<racarr> debdiff is implying you overwrote my changes
<Lutin> racarr: yeah, thats what I'm talking about ;).  I forgot to re-upload your changes
<Lutin> fixed now
<racarr> +# Copyright (C) YEAR THE PACKAGE'S COPYRIGHT HOLDER
<racarr> +# This file is distributed under the same license as the PACKAGE package. 
<racarr> +# FIRST AUTHOR <EMAIL@ADDRESS>, YEAR. 
<racarr> -# This file is distributed under the same license as the Beryl Settings package. 
<racarr> -# Copyright Thruth <gubotruth@gmail.com> 2007
<racarr> ah ok
<racarr> mm
<racarr> your last upload isn't showing up lutin
<Lutin> racarr: should be in 1 min or so
<Lutin> racarr: here it is
<racarr> Lutin: Ah, I spoke to soon
<Lutin> racarr: is it ok with your previous changes ? 
<racarr> Lutin: Looks like it, yes :)
<Lutin> racarr: everything should be ok now, but I'd like some review to make sure it's ok.  imbrandon ;)
<racarr> Lutin: He's away until 9 EST
<Lutin> racarr: yep, but he'll know I need review when he reads his awaylog :p
<geser> linda finds only the following: E: beryl-settings; No manual page for binary beryl-settings. 
<Lutin> heh, it's an error for linda ?  I wasn't aware it was possible to more anal than lintian
<racarr> err, why would I get unknown  substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends}
<racarr> same for misc:Depends
<Lutin> geser: btw, is shlibs:Depends useful there ?  can't see the point
<geser> misc:Depends are often filled through echo "something" >> debian/packagename.substvars
<racarr> in beryl-settings-simple?  I don't see it either...
<racarr> the point that is
<racarr> geser: ? 
<geser> racarr: misc:Depends are often generate through debian/rules
<racarr> shlibs depends doesn
<racarr> 't work on python does it? 
<geser> dh_shlibdeps is a debhelper program that is responsible for calculating
<geser>        shared library dependencies for packages
<geser> you don't have them normally in python programs
<racarr> well, things like
<racarr> python-gtk2
<racarr> is what I meant
<racarr> I have to manually specify those? 
<geser> yes
<Lutin> geser: and misc either if you do nothing to generate it, right ? 
<geser> Lutin: yes, if you don't need it you can remove it
<Lutin> ok
<Lutin> racarr: btw, any idea why it depends on librsvg2 ? 
<racarr> Lutin: It uses gdk to load svgs which in turn uses librsvg2
<racarr> but gdk doesn't depend on librsvg2
<racarr> it's an optional thing I gather
<Lutin> racarr: the package depends on python-gtk2, which depends on libgtk2
<Lutin> and that does depend on librsvg2-common and won't change for sure
<racarr> ah, I don't think that used to be the case
<racarr> or maybe it did, I didn't do this packaging, heh
<racarr> I have to go for a bit, Ill be back ground 6:40 or 7 
<racarr> though I put up a new beryl-settings-simple (still needs some work) but more or less everything not uploaded should be ready for upload
<racarr> so once imbrandon gets back things shouhld be good
<Lutin> lupine_85: why is the whole configure in the diff for b-s-s ?? 
<tbf> grrr!  who is spaming here with beryl-core uploads? 
<tbf> got about 60 messages about that already
<tbf> Lutin: why do you need that many updates? 
<Lutin> tbf: I don't upload beryl-core ^^
<Lutin> maybe because wa fix one thing, then another, and so on ... don't know
<tbf> Lutin: just thought you'd do, cause the messages are from lut1n@gmail.com
<Lutin> tbf: this is beryl-settings
<Lutin> are 4 upload aren't *that* much
<tbf> Lutin: this and beryl-core
<Lutin> I've never touched beryl-core and probably never will
<tbf> Lutin: hmm, but for beryl-settings I've also got 27 messages already
<Lutin> for sure the problem doesn't come from me spamminng with updates
<Lutin> I uploaded it 4 times, that's all.  dunno where your probleme comes from
<tbf> Lutin: also don't want to tell you not to work on this - or something like that
<tbf> just wondering why there are that many beryl messages
<tbf> hmm... some other updates are from lupine_85? 
<Lutin> there are many beryl messages it's being actively worked on since yresterday evening
<Lutin> because*
<Lutin> but really, 27 updates of beryl-settings is weird
<tbf> Lutin: yup, appears like 0.2.0 was released
<tbf> guess I'll have a look on it once aptitude knows more than just beryl-manager
<tbf> but as I know that writing a good _window manager_ is hard, I wonder if there are plans in the beryl community to integrate beryl with some grown up window manager
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-10
<pwnguin> the decentralized vcs recognizes that development already happens that way, and pushing a distrbuted VCS helps set up a centralized point to track all these distributed changesets
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but to me it sort of makes one wonder if the goal of centralizing the FLOSS world in LP is a workable idea
<pwnguin> the only way to reconcile this is to imagine that some day they'll release the code, I guess ;)
<LaserJock> pwnguin: well, that's certainly the plan
<LaserJock> Mark said today that he expects an API by July
<LaserJock> I think that's a big hurdle for them
<ScottK2> What was today? 
<LaserJock> I thought so
<LaserJock> yeah, today
<pwnguin> anyways, what about the brainstorm code? ;) 
<LaserJock> "I'm pretty confident that you will be able to do anything with bugs or branches programatically by the end of July"
<tonyyarusso> Why should it need to be the canonical instance if it can track itself, and therefore still have all of the data that a canonical instance would have? 
<LaserJock> the idea was that people should use launchpad.net, not just launchpad
<pwnguin> tonyyarusso: probably along the lines of "50 dollars and you can fork ubuntu!" 
<tonyyarusso> Well I know that's the idea, but I don't know why they think forcing that on people is okay. 
<LaserJock> having launchpad being able to talk to each other to a level where it's effectively the same thing
<LaserJock> because if they didn't then it's just like having gforge or trac/bugzilla
<LaserJock> the idea is to create a common FLOSS workspace that holds bugs, blueprints, code, packages for everything
<tonyyarusso> meh, I don't write code yet, but if/when I do I won't be comfortable hosting it on a platform that flies in the face of the entire ideal set. 
<LaserJock> so the only way to get that with multiple instances is to effectively make it possible to make the instances a part of a gigantic whole
<pwnguin> google code/
<pwnguin> ? 
<RAOF> There are at least 3 closed codehosting sites widely used for open source projects that I can pick off the top of my head :)
<pwnguin> exactly. 
<tonyyarusso> So why add more? 
<tonyyarusso> I'd rather host my own subversion repository, personally. 
<pwnguin> because none of them are effective at distro sized projects/
 * pwnguin has his ?  button inspected
<ScottK2> LaserJock: But it's not a FLOSS workspace. 
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Because SourceForge sucks.  Bad. 
<bmk789_> is there a MOTM? 
<Fujitsu> bmk789_: No, MOTU covers it. 
<bmk789_> ah i see thanks
<LaserJock> ScottK2: I believe that is the goal, no? 
<pwnguin> recall that scott's hatred for lp is more than just copyrights
<tonyyarusso> It's been stated as a goal, but I'm judging things on actions rather than vague promises until I see something hinting otherwise. 
<ScottK2> LaserJock: It's a stated goal, but it's not an actuality.   There's no timeline and IMO the developers are not at all community oriented, so even if the code were freed tomorrow it would be a long time before much changes. 
<LaserJock> I believe most projects hosted on LP are FLOSS
<ScottK2> True, but beside the point. 
<LaserJock> well, you said it wasn't an actuality
<ScottK2> It's not a FLOSS anything
<LaserJock> but I'm not exactly seeing how it's not
<ScottK2> It's proprietary. 
<LaserJock> it's for FLOSS I wasn't saying it *was* FLOSS
<ScottK2> Ah. 
<LaserJock> I agree with you that it's not FLOSS currently
<ScottK2> Well as I've said before I consider that a fatal flaw. 
<LaserJock> but I see no reason to doubt that it won't one day be FLOSS
<ScottK2> My perspective on that has only hardened as I've interacted with their developers and tried to help make it better. 
<ScottK2> I see no reason to believe it will be. 
<LaserJock> in general Mark's been fairly trustworthy on these things
<LaserJock> most of the devs are FLOSS guys
<ScottK2> They don't much act like it IMO. 
<LaserJock> part of it has already been opened
<LaserJock> though it is not much
<LaserJock> but they are
<ScottK2> I agree that he intends to open it, I just don't think the necessary preconditions are achievable. 
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well, I can go a bit there
<LaserJock> I think it'll ultimately work
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: WHat part has?  Storm isn't actually part of it yet...
<LaserJock> I thought they were using it
<Fujitsu> I guess cscvs, but that's about it. 
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's scheduled for the next release or two, IIRC. 
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> so there's 2 parts
<LaserJock> not much, but something anyway
<tonyyarusso> How long has it been since he first promised to open it?   Two years?   More? 
<LaserJock> probably a bit longer
<LaserJock> he's never set a time though
<Fujitsu> The FAQ has said it for about 3 years. 
<tonyyarusso> If you can't follow through on a promise like that in 12 months or less, you lose credibility in my eyes. 
<LaserJock> why? 
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: It said it would likely take years. 
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: They can say whatever they want.   Fact is, after the first year, I no longer trust that claim until the day it comes true. 
<LaserJock> well, whatever
<LaserJock> I really couldn't care less
<LaserJock> Mark and Canonical say they're gonna open source it when the time is right
<LaserJock> and I haven't seen anything to make me thing that's changed
<LaserJock> it's being worked on
<LaserJock> even if it's not as fast as I'd like
<pwnguin> what negative effects would be seen if it were released say... today? 
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: A complete loss of income from it, perhaps? 
<LaserJock> that'd just add to the problem they're already trying to fix
<pwnguin> does LP have anything money related? 
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> commercial projects have to pay for LP
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Yes, and a lot more features to encourage that are coming. 
<azeem> LaserJock: commercial project which are FLOSS? 
<LaserJock> azeem: no
<LaserJock> I don't think so anyway
<tonyyarusso> See, that's the thing.   We've been given no technical reasons, but there are financial reasons, so I'm inclined to believe it's completely a financial matter, which bothers me. 
<LaserJock> proprietary I guess
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: they give technical reasons
<azeem> ok, cause you said it was targetted at FLOSS projects above
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: We do have technical reasons. 
<LaserJock> azeem: yes, but they have to pay the bills ;-)
<Fujitsu> The point of Launchpad vanishes if it is split up. 
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: What, "we don't want to be embarrassed by someone seeing our code"? 
<azeem> k
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: not if it was properly designed...
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: come on!  I just gave you reasons
<LaserJock> azeem: it's free for FLOSS projects but proprietary projects have to pay.  Pay the bills while encouraging FLOSS
<azeem> "Thank God nobody's looking at this comment, or my reputation would be ruined." --  Gordon Matzigkeit in the Solaris boot-loader code
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: What's the difference between being able to track everything in one location and forcing everyone to use the one location directly, other than what URL you type in? 
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: it discourages collaboration
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: how? 
<tonyyarusso> Nobody can collaborate on LP anyway. 
<LaserJock> sure they can
<tonyyarusso> not unless they're on the dev team...
<LaserJock> packagers can files bugs on upstreams
<LaserJock> bzr branches, etc. 
<LaserJock> all in the same place
<tonyyarusso> You could do that the way I said too. 
<LaserJock> whereas we already know how hard it is to deal with 1000's of upstreams
<LaserJock> with different websites, bug trackers, etc. 
<tonyyarusso> If all of the LPs can talk to each other, it's the same as being one. 
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but they don't have that yet
<LaserJock> so that's part of what Mark's talking about
<RAOF> Which is a technical reason :)
<LaserJock> the API needs to get finished
<tonyyarusso> Then that's what they should have been working on this whole time. 
<LaserJock> they have been
<tonyyarusso> I don't believe that it.   They added support for other trackers in that time, but not their own? 
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> they don't have full support
<LaserJock> vcs imports have to be done by hand
<tonyyarusso> Could have gotten the work done faster with more input anyway, so it would have been easier to accomplish by starting open right off the bat. 
<LaserJock> they are working around stuff trying to provide services for us
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: But LP needs to be reasonably code- and nearly totally design-stable before you can open it without introducing incompatibilities later. 
<LaserJock> but tracking another LP with translations, bugs, branches, blueprints, answers, etc.  is a *much* bigger task
<pwnguin> tonyyarusso: i suppose the idea is that they will make a service akin to git -- distributed bug tracking that can push bug reports around multiple trackers
<Fujitsu> Translations in particular would be near impossible. 
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: So have people review additions and offer direction. 
<kitterma> Gotta run (getting on a plane)
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: precisely. 
<pwnguin> tonyyarusso: automatically.  which isnt done anywhere yet ;0
<tonyyarusso> meh, like I said, this is a priority for me, so I'm staying at arm's length until something changes. 
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: But if the point is that you don't want people forking it until it can talk to itself, how does that review help? 
<RAOF> Not that I wouldn't *prefer* having LP open sourced, and it could probably fulfil the same role, but it's not like there aren't reasonable reasons for it :)
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: The forks could talk too...
<tonyyarusso> people don't just fork randomly either, and when they do, users will follow the better one usually. 
<pwnguin> tonyyarusso: the forks could talk, right up until either side updates
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: at which point you'd know the code necessary to talk to the update
<tonyyarusso> Here's what it comes down to:  Can LP talk to my self-hosted web page with my code? 
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: No, probably not.   But why are you self-hosting? 
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: because I don't want to be on LP / sourceforge / etc. 
<tonyyarusso> Because I'm not comfortable trusted my open code to a closed service. 
<tonyyarusso> Therefore, for me personally, LP fails at "bringing everything together", but I don't want to accept its conditions of participation. 
<RAOF> Right.   So when it's open this will go away, and you won't be self-hosting? 
<tonyyarusso> Correct. 
<tonyyarusso> Well, provided they also fix a few "pet bugs" in functionality, but that's quite likely :)
<farruinn> I'm trying to get pbuilder to use a local repo on /var/caches/archive but when I run pbuilder update --bindmount /var/cache/archive --override-config --othermirror "deb file:///var/cache/archive/ gutsy/" it says "Ign file: gutsy" for Release.pgp, Release, and Packages. 
<YokoZar> ScottK: Hey, I put up a new Wine package on review and \sh has been gone for a few days.   Care to take a look? 
<RAOF> YokoZar: The most cursory scan suggests the question: Why is it versioned as 0.9.57-0ubuntu1-1? 
<tonyyarusso> Any MOTUs have a minute to upload the updated conduit?   2 ACKs already given. 
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: launchpad clearly can't be released as a FLOSS project today, because then everyone would see the amount of hacks, and general crack in launchpad, and would then refuse to use it for their projects, due to it's quality. 
<Hobbsee> this is simple. 
<Hobbsee> see the interesting crack surrounding how launchpad implements private bugs. 
<Hobbsee> (when the entire librarian, which all files get stored on, is public)
<superm1> crimsun, it was bug 200044.   sorry i've been out for part of the evening
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200044 in mythbuntu "MythTV 0.21 Suite backport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200044
<YokoZar> RAOF: oh whoops, that was a typo when I did uupdate.   If that matters I can fix it, however we'll likely have another Wine package after this one too
<YokoZar> RAOF: at which point it'll be 0.9.58-0ubuntu1
<RAOF> YokoZar: It's still a good idea to fix up this candidate, even if the next one may come (hasn't .57 been recently released?) 
<YokoZar> RAOF: Yes it will be 2 weeks for the next one
<RAOF> YokoZar: So, the question becomes... why not wait those 2 weeks? :) 
<YokoZar> RAOF: Because Hardy only has 0.9.56
<YokoZar> RAOF: my package fixes some other bugs too (ubuntu specific)
<RAOF> Right.   _That_ is a reason :)
<ianweller> hi, i've packaged some software for fedora, and the developer of the upstream has asked me to find a maintainer for ubuntu.  is anyone interested and/or where else could i ask
<tonyyarusso> ianweller: you'll probably have better luck if you say what the package is.   (and note that it's a weekend, and therefore sparsely populated)
<ianweller> flam3.com
<ianweller> do you think i should ask tomorrow
<tonyyarusso> yes. 
<ianweller> k.
<ianweller> will do
<tonyyarusso> the mailing list is also an option with a wider audience. 
<ianweller> ok
<tonyyarusso> You can also file a bug and tag it with "needs packaging"
<ianweller> tonyyarusso: so 'needs packaging' is a tag, with or without quotes? 
<tonyyarusso> ianweller: without
<tonyyarusso> there might even be a hyphen in that - see if you can find another one and copy it. 
<tonyyarusso> the wiki has instructions for new packages somewhere as well - start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU and look around (don't remember the path right now)
<ianweller> kthx
 * RAOF wonders idly why there's a 30 sec pause in the middle of his boot process with no I/O or CPU load. 
<pwnguin> are you up to date? 
<StevenK> Sounds like a spin with sleep
<pwnguin> there was a changelog in usplash about SLEEP 0 causing a bit of spin ;)
<RAOF> How up to date is up to date?   The lappy is up to date as of ~8 hours ago. 
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Is it during the `hahahah I'm going to confuse you into thinking I'm a live CD' part of usplash? 
<RAOF> Fujitsu: I'm not quite sure where that bit is :).   Now that I come to think of it, it's probably not entirely usplash's fault; the pause is still there without splash, and occurs at the "loading kernel drivers" (or somesuch) phase. 
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Hardy's usplash recently started doing the side-to-side scrolly thing during initramfs, like the live CD does throughout the boot process. 
<Fujitsu> It thoroughly confused me the first time I saw it. 
<pwnguin> it looks like it booted fine for me
<Fujitsu> RAOF: I ask because my laptop hangs for about 30 seconds in initramfs, unless I force the clocksource to HPET. 
<RAOF> Oh, that.   That's been there for ages.   I probably see it more than you, 'cause it takes a while for me to enter the passphrase. 
<pwnguin> though it is about a second longer than last time ;)
<Fujitsu> RAOF: I use LUKS too...
<RAOF> Fujitsu: No, I don't think that's me.   I go from grub(2) to passphrase-entry in a couple of seconds. 
<Fujitsu> OK, so that's not your problem. 
<pwnguin> ok, so if readahead's job is to prime the read cache for boot
<pwnguin> why do i have so much disk activity even after it's done? 
<tonyyarusso> Hmm, activity eh?   Anyone have a minute to upload the already-ACKed new version of conduit? 
 * RAOF is puzzled by the lack of nspluginwrapper maintainer scripts.   Don't we do something on install to make it work? 
<RAOF> asac: Ping!  I'm having a look at bug #196540 , and it seems we could almost sync it.   Is it blocking on you for any particular reason? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 196540 in nspluginwrapper "Merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196540
<RAOF> Ah, I see now.   You don't need to do any nspluginwrapper configuration; flash needs to call it during *it's* postinst. 
<dholbach> good morning
<torkel> siretart: can you please extened my membership of the fai launchpad team? 
<siretart> torkel: sure, just a sek
<torkel> siretart: thanks
<asac> RAOF: not sure ... are there any significant improvements in that version? 
<slytherin> asac: A question.  Do you plan to update your PPA to include latest svn snapshots of network manager? 
<asac> slytherin: eventually yes
<asac> but not today ;)
<slytherin> asac: Take your time.  Thanks. :-) 
<RAOF> asac: It apparently fixes the "if you have too many flash objects running nspluginwrapper crashes" bug. 
<asac> RAOF: hmmm what about ia32-libs-gtk ... is that still a depends of the debian package? 
<RAOF> It is, yeah. 
<RAOF> Our ia32-libs provides it, but it's a little ugly. 
<RAOF> The sid package builds, installs, and works correctly, though. 
<RAOF> asac: Although, of course, now that I try and verify that it fixes all my flash problems I can no longer reproduce them with the original Ubuntu package.   Grrr. 
<asac> hehe
<RAOF> It seems I can watch zeropunctuation, which used to be a sure-fire nspluginwrapper crash. 
<allee> siretart: please renew my launchpad fai team membership
<\sh> siretart: mine too pls :)
<siretart> allee: already done, \sh: done :)
<allee> siretart: thx
 * \sh hugs siretart  :)
<torkel> siretart: what is the status of FAI in hardy?  unionfs is still somewhat problematic, right?  Anything else? 
<siretart> torkel: well, problematic in the sense that it renders fai basically unusable, yes
<siretart> bug #197006
<\sh> siretart: what do we need to make it usable? : 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 197006 in linux-meta "NFS over Unionfs prevents updating existing files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197006
<torkel> siretart: I will find out in about 8 minutes :-)
<siretart> \sh: basically fixing that bug, or prodding on #ubuntu-kernel to get that one fixed
<\sh> siretart: hmm for hardy this will be a hard thing...and I'm still waiting for my new hardware for setting up FAI here...I'm not in the position right now to play around with fai :(
<proppy> oy
<ryanhaig1> im trying to rebuild nautilus without tracker integration on gutsy, i have downloaded the source but I dont know what to change to disable tracker, is it a command line option when using debuild or do i need to change a file? 
<Iulian> Hey
<allee> siretart, \sh:  when we can find a way to get grub the mbr installed, we have some anoying bug in error log,  but I assume a more or less working fai. 
<siretart> allee: err, and the unionfs problem? 
<allee> siretart: /target and /tmp  is  a normal or tmpfs  so most things work
<siretart> sure, but for me, fai fails to setup things like /etc/resolve.conf and /etc/apt/sources.list
<allee> siretart: I've removed so files from fairoot, e.g, /etc/resolv.conf  and the the boot procedure can create it
<allee> siretart: it's all a hack, but better than nothing.   So after plains ugly hacks *shudder*, AFAICS only grub left
<siretart> allee: oh, do you have a list of files that need to be removed?  if yes, I'd suggest that we commit that to our branch and update the packages in hardy
<siretart> I'd like to have something almost usable, even if its just a hack
<siretart> for the grub problem, I *think* my student has found a solution for that
<siretart> need to check with him
<\sh> hmmm?  grub in mbr? 
<\sh> that was working the last time
<allee> siretart: I've check what I added last Thursday to the nfsroot-hooks
<allee> \sh: for me last week:  no OS found on disk
<allee> \sh: ah, right the menu.lst was empty.   Nothing added by update-grub
<siretart> allee: which branch did you commit to? 
<siretart> allee: https://code.launchpad.net/fai/+branches does not list any updates on the branches from you? 
<allee> siretart: no commit yet, just tried to get it somehow working.   I've used nfsroot-hook scripts to remove
<siretart> allee: aah, sorry I misread you
<allee> siretart: can you ask your student about the grub solution?    I plan to try again as soon as I get rid of 'urgent' TODO in my inbox
<siretart> allee: I need to write him an email
<allee> siretart: ok, thx
<torkel> allee: it is not as easy as creating $target/boot/grub before running update-grub? 
<allee> torkel: that not the problem.   even menu.lst is there, but the kernel list automaticly added by update-grub is empty
<torkel> allee: oh
<allee> torkel: and when I found this stop last week, so no idea where is goes wrong yet
<torkel> allee: it seems to be working for me.  My current showstopper is that it can't find my lvm:s after the installation
<allee> torkel: oh, maybe -12 kernel changed something
<torkel> allee: I guess I have to add dm_mod to the initramfs
<allee> siretart: if we have fixes for hardy, what branch to use?   A ~<user>/fai/fai-<whatever> or merge to on off the two ~fai/fai/* branches? 
<\sh> allee: well, yes...I managed to use a default kernel name with a self build kernel ;)
<allee> \sh: :)
<\sh> allee: this menu.lst post-install thingy never worked for me in a good way ;)
<\sh> 7topic Congrats to Scott Ritchie for the first Wine Upload in Ubuntu :)
<allee> \sh: never had problems in dapper,feisty (had ot skip gutsy)
<\sh> allee: well, right now I'm happy that I don#t have this setup again...combots ade :)
<siretart> allee: just commit to trunk-ubuntu
<allee> siretart: okay
<allee> siretart, \sh, torkel: any idea how to have the ubuntu-kernel guys ponder about the unionfs problem?   Or did they? 
<siretart> allee: I didn't manage to get any reaction about that on #ubuntu-kernel
<siretart> I suspect they are too busy with other stuff :(
<allee> so maybe we all join #ubuntu-kernel  and fire a 'please have a look at  bug #197006'  to fix the bad charma ubuntu kernel tend to have. 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 197006 in linux-meta "NFS over Unionfs prevents updating existing files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197006
<\sh> siretart: subscribe ubuntu-kernel ,-)
<siretart> isn't it already? 
<\sh> siretart: nope...only fai developers...but ben is also contacted...but I would push it directly to the kernel team
<\sh> ah benc commented already it seems
<\sh>   Ben Collins  wrote 6 seconds ago:  (permalink)
<siretart> I'm already talking to ben on #ubuntu-kernel
<\sh> ah cool
<torkel> it should be enough to use unionfs=aufs right? 
<siretart> torkel: yes.  you can add this to the fai-chboot command
<torkel> siretart: it looks like it uses unionfs anyway
<torkel> on the other hand the machine installed with unionfs (I removed resolv.conf* and mtab in the nfsroot)
<siretart> torkel: wait, you need to pass 'union=aufs'
<siretart> sorry, I misread
<torkel> ah
<siretart> the parameter is documented in /usr/share/doc/live-initramfs/parameters.txt, IIRC
<emgent> heya people
<RainCT> hey
<siretart> ScottK: congrats to DMship! 
<\sh> phew
<\sh> lighttpd + php as fcgi is much more performant then apache + mod_php5...how nice
<mario_limonciell> hey ScottK2, would you be able to look over a backport bug?   I'm getting a barade of emails about why this hasn't been backported yet, and it still needs a backporter to look at it. 
<ScottK2> Sure
<mario_limonciell> I've attached build logs and such to it.  bug 200044
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200044 in mythbuntu "MythTV 0.21 Suite backport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200044
<ScottK2> mario_limonciell: How important are the themes?   That's a lot of package Newing for the archive admins to do. 
<mario_limonciell> well they have new metrics.   they are a urgency.   the display just won't look right otherwise
<mario_limonciell> er a lower urgency
<mario_limonciell> is what i meant to say
<mario_limonciell> if a different diff.gz/dsc could be uploaded for the backport, i'll take them off the recommends
<mario_limonciell> so that they dont need to be NEWed
<ScottK2> Let's leave it and see if they complain then. 
<mario_limonciell> okay
<ScottK2> I also need a statement that the packages install and run on Gutsy. 
<mario_limonciell> well i sent the exact same packages to the mythbuntu-trunk ppa
<mario_limonciell> and have a variety of users there
<ScottK2> Sure.   I figure it does, but I need you to say that it works in the bug. 
<mario_limonciell> i'll get someone to throw on ack on the bug
<ScottK2> mario_limonciell: How about you do that for the main packages and then make a separate bug for the recommeds as those are less urgent.   I expect it'd take a while to test all those anyway. 
<mario_limonciell> Ok. 
<emgent> geser, ping
<geser> Hi emgent
<emgent> geser, hi, can you open task in bug #191205 ?  i can only nominate affected release. 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 191205 in wml "[wml] [CVE-2008-0665] [CVE-2008-0666] insecure temporary files" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191205
<geser> emgent: done
<emgent> thanks
<persia> emgent: You might just ask for a task to be opened generally, as there are several people who can do so :)
<DktrKranz2> geser: had you the occasion to test new dietlibc candidate on amd64? 
<emgent> persia, hehe i know, all >= motu can, but i usually ask to last uploader :P
<geser> DktrKranz2: not yet, what kind of test are needed? 
<persia> emgent: That's typically only useful when attempting to merge someone else's changes, as they may be coordinating with upstream or Debian. 
<emgent> persia, ok
<DktrKranz2> geser: applications segfaults at startup, rebuilding them against new dietlibc-dev should solve it.  For instance, util-vserver (run vserver-info - SYSINFO) or slidentd (just run slidentd as shown in bug 86823). 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 86823 in slidentd "Slidentd immediately segfaults" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86823
<mario_limonciell> ScottK2, okay i got a few folks to comment on the bug
 * ScottK2 looks again
<DktrKranz2> (any other help from amd64 users is appreciated too)
<DktrKranz2> I tested on sparc and ppc and it should work now. 
<ScottK2> mario_limonciell: Ack'ed to the archive. 
<mario_limonciell> thanks
<huats> ScottK2: hello
<huats> ScottK2: just a question : is there any limit date to finish the python-xml removal ? 
<huats> (not really sure where it fits in the various freezes)
<mruiz> hi all
<ScottK2> huats: Sooner the better, but I'd say definitely before the beta
<huats> ok
<RainCT> hellboy195: heya
<hellboy195> RainCT: ahoi :)
<RainCT> I'm starting to think that patches hate me :)
<hellboy195> RainCT: no merge working for you O_o ? 
<RainCT> I'm looking at cfingerd
<RainCT> and it had rejects
<RainCT> but don't worry will apply those manually :P
<RainCT> ahhhh
 * RainCT runs against the wall :P
<hellboy195> RainCT: but you can trust me.  I build every merge and all build fine
 * RainCT downloads the source from *Debian*
<RainCT> :P
<ScottK2> That'll do it (I've done that)
<hellboy195> RainCT: lol
<RainCT> hellboy195: wow, that's a old package :)
<hellboy195> RainCT: hmm.  That's the problem if no one approves it earlier.  I forgot all about this package
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> first changelog entry (in a different format than the current ones): Wed May 5 13:20:21 1996  Martin Schulze  <joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de>
<RainCT> :)
<hellboy195> RainCT: ^^ long living
<RainCT> hellboy195: ok, uploading.  if it fails to build I kill you ;)
<hellboy195> RainCT: Hmm but first the other MOTUs will kill you because you have the responsibility ;) ^^
<RainCT> :P
<RainCT> hellboy195: that's the smae I always thought when I subscribed u-u-s to a debdiff of mine ;). " if I did something wrong and installing the resulting package lets computers explode it's the MOTU's fault" ;P
<RainCT> nah but it builds fine :)
<hellboy195> RainCT: as I said ;)
<RainCT> s/smae/same
<hellboy195> RainCT: you are slowly.  next merge ;)
 * RainCT is starting to hate python and mono packages.  all the time they want unnecessary higher dependencies when installing stuff build for hardy in gutsy :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: buona sera :)
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, Guten Abend :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: great :D
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: btw, I found a new victim.  I forced RainCT to approve 3 merges ^^
<DktrKranz> \o/
<DktrKranz> what about beagle? 
<DktrKranz> news about it? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: no :(.  but that's really a shame ...
<RainCT> hellboy195: I can't download libnxml
<RainCT> dget: curl libnxml_0.18.1-4.dsc http://ftp.debian-ports.org/debian/pool/main/libn/libnxml/libnxml_0.18.1-4.dsc failed
<RainCT> (getting it from lenny seems to work)
<hellboy195> RainCT: you have strange problems with my merges ^^
<RainCT> heh
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: of course you are also invited as usual ^^
<Adri2000> where should .mo files be installed?  /usr/share/locale/$LANG/ or /usr/share/locale/$LANG/LC_MESSAGES/ ?  is there a policy or something about that? 
<slangasek> Adri2000: [...]/LC_MESSAGES/ is the subdirectory that's in the path
<slangasek> if you're installing them as part of a package, /usr/share/locale/$LANG/LC_MESSAGES/ is generally correct
<slangasek> language packs install them elsewhere
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, I'm planning to do some, I hope to reduce queue a bit, if Hardy allows me to do them (I'm having some troubles recently)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: hey.  Always mind: "NO Stress" ;)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: but you know that I'm always happy if someone approves my merges :)
<Adri2000> slangasek: ok.  filezilla build system puts them in /usr/share/locale/$LANG/ and the upstream author tells me it doesn't matter because wxwidgets (which filezilla uses) can handle both locations.  so is there a standard, policy or something which says they should rather be in LC_MESSAGES/ ? 
<RainCT> hellboy195: was that clean-la thing added in cdbs 0.4.49ubuntu5? 
<hellboy195> RainCT: yep
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, I used to be, so I know how it feels :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: heh
<slangasek> Adri2000: well, there's the gettext documentation, I guess; and there's the general principle that it's rude to clutter directories that aren't yours. :) 
<slangasek> Adri2000: but as far as a policy saying the files *have* to be under LC_MESSAGES/, I don't think so
<Adri2000> ok I'll take a look at the gettext documentation, thanks :)
<wattazoum> hello,
<wattazoum> I am looking for a Mentor :-) .  I am very dynamic and I have a great sense of well accomplished jobs.  And I'd like to contribute a lot to Ubuntu
<wattazoum> :-)
<wattazoum> any mentor interessed :-D
<hellboy195> wb Daviey
<hellboy195> wb DktrKranz
<hellboy195> Daviey: sry ^^
<RainCT> wattazoum: please check the wiki for information on how to get a mentor :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: sto andando via means "I keep moving on"? 
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, "Quitting"
<hellboy195> hmm
<RainCT> wattazoum: but you don't need one to start contributing to packaging
<RainCT> hellboy195: uploading the 3th one ;)
<hellboy195> RainCT: great.  time for 3 new ones
<RainCT> lol
<wattazoum> RainCT, Thank you !  That's what I didn't understand ... How to contibute without being a MOTU ? 
<hellboy195> RainCT: now I'm disappointed.  Although I did quite a lot merges it always great to hear the common phrase: Uploaded.  Thanks for you work.    You should take a lot at DktrKranz ;)
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, do you think "Uploaded, it's 150 EUR" sounds better? 
<RainCT> wattazoum: I'm searching the links for you (my connection is damn slow today :/)... There's a "sponsorship process" through which you can get a MOTU to check your work and upload it
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: maybe :P
<wattazoum> RainCT, I found this : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
<hellboy195> RainCT: as punishment I'm assigning 3 more ones to you :P
<RainCT> noooo :)
<DktrKranz> RainCT, in the meantime, hellboy195 will push five more on the queue :)
 * RainCT hides
<RainCT> heh
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: argh.  school is stupid.  but next week I'll do :D
<RainCT> hellboy195: By the way, do you want the bill by email or airpost? 
<hellboy195> RainCT: hmm.  don't send it for now.  You know.  More merges are on the way ^^
<RainCT> wattazoum: see this too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<wattazoum> RainCT, oki
<hellboy195> RainCT: no to be serious.  Thank you very much :)
<ScottK2> mok0: Did you ever come up with any additional wxwidgets2.6 fixes? 
<ScottK2> mok0: And how's serpentine? 
<RainCT> wattazoum: if you prefer a mentor of course feel free to request one though :)
<RainCT> hellboy195: no, thank *you* ;)
<mok0> ScottK2: No to both questions... I've been busy
<hellboy195> RainCT: now I'm happy ^^
<mok0> ScottK2: upstreams patches to serpentine made it fail
 * RainCT adds "say thanks -- 5â¬" to the bill
<hellboy195> RainCT: but they were easy ones so I suppose they were ok and not a lot of work for you
<mok0> ScottK2: IMHO serpentine is very immature and I'm not really enthusiastic about it
<wattazoum> RainCT, well , if there is no need for one, I prefere letting the place to someone who need it more.  I already have some programming and packaging background and I can learn easily by myself  :-)
<RainCT> wattazoum: great :)
<wattazoum> ^^
 * wattazoum is going to read some documentation ;-) 
<wattazoum> see you soon :)
<RainCT> cya wattazoum :)
<ScottK2> mok0: So if we went ahead and uploaded your last debdiff that would at least solve the python-xml problem and not do any actual harm? 
<ScottK2> mok0: for serpentine ^^^
<mok0> ScottK2: err, no
<ScottK2> OK
<mok0> ScottK2: I need to check it some more
<ScottK2> OK. 
<mok0> ScottK2: what was the problem with wx 2.6?  Sorry I forgot
<ScottK2> mok0: With that one you needed to change the python version to 2.4 and later and I asked you to look and see if you could fix anything else while you were at it. 
<ScottK2> Since the package has a number of open bugs
<mok0> Ah, ok
<mok0> I'll put it on my todo
<ScottK2> It seemed a shame to upload for the one line packaging change ...
<mok0> ScottK2: It is necessary to require Python >= 2.4 in debian/control because the libxml replacement stuff was introduced with that version -- is my understanding anyway
<ScottK2> mok0: Agreed.   It needs to be uploaded, but I wanted to see if there was anything else worth including at the same time. 
<mok0> ScottK2: I understand.  Good point
<mok0> ScottK2: I'll look at those other open bugs and see if I can solve them
<ScottK2> Thanks.   Debian might be a good source of patches too. 
<mok0> ScottK2: ok
<nxvl> ScottK2: did you know if there is any python-binding of ncurses
<POX_> urwid? 
<ScottK2> I don't know
<POX_> (there's one in std lib as well)
<ScottK2> But POX_ is generally reliable on python things, so I'd look into that
<ScottK2> that/those
<nxvl> ScottK2: thnx! 
<POX_> http://docs.python.org/dev/howto/curses.html
<POX_> http://excess.org/urwid/
<candrews> I'm attempting to package mod_auth_cas, I have everything done, except when I try to load the module into apache, I get this error: /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_auth_cas.so: /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_auth_cas.so: undefined symbol: authcas_module
<candrews> Can someone help? 
<hellboy195> RainCT: now we have a problem
<james_w> candrews: it sounds like something went wrong while building, such that something wasn't linked correctly. 
<candrews> do you have any ideas on how i can figure out what went wrong? 
<james_w> candrews: look in the source code for "authcas_module" and see what it is meant to be., 
<candrews> grep authcas_module * -i
<candrews> Yields no results. 
<candrews> Where is it getting that it needs to load something by that name? 
<james_w> candrews: I don't know, possibly in the build somewhere, possibly apache expects it to be there. 
<candrews> Thanks - that helped me figure it out.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/199754
<Legendario> hi.  can anyone give me a hint on this error message here?  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59185/
<mok0> Legendario: look at line 3
<slangasek> don't try to copy things to a directory before you've made sure it exists? 
<Legendario> mok0, but this is on the makefile... how can i correct it? 
<mok0> Put "usr/share/applications" in the file <package>.dirs
<Legendario> slangasek, i tried using dh_installdirs by creating a debian/package.dirs file, but i don't know if i did it right
<mok0> Legendario: and make sure debian/rules uses dh_installdirs
<slangasek> mok0: that won't trigger before the install target
<slangasek> Legendario: the upstream build rules should be fixed
<mok0> slangasek: ah, it's a bug in upstream Makefile...
<mok0> I see
<mok0> the quick and dirty way is to make it in rules
<mok0> "mkdir -p debian/lives/usr/share/applications/"
<slangasek> very dirty
<Skiessi> is archive.ubuntu.com updated more often than it's mirrors? 
<mok0> slangasek: but very quick :-P
<mok0> Legendario: I suggest you go with the quick and dirty to get it to work, and when it does, move the fixes into a patch to upstream's Makefile
<Legendario> mok0, what about the package.dirs, isn't it supposed to work? 
<mok0> Skiessi: no, the mirrors are updated more often than the archive
<mok0> :-P
<Skiessi> ok
<mok0> Legendario: try it
<Legendario> mok0, gonna do it right away...
<Skiessi> anyway, does anyone know why the sound system is broken in 2.6.24-12? 
<Legendario> mok0, thanks
<mok0> Legendario: did it work? 
<Legendario> you too slangasek
<slangasek> Skiessi: because of bug #200338
<slangasek> Legendario: n/p
<mok0> bug 200338
<Legendario> mok0, i'm doing it now.  tell you guys later
<Skiessi> that doesn't say anything
<Skiessi> to anyone
<mok0> ubotu? 
<Skiessi> no, a bug report
<mok0> ubotu's dead :-(
<Skiessi> bug report says there's a bug and that's it
<mok0> Skiessi: the bot usually gives us a link
<Skiessi> I know
<mok0> Skiessi: you can help by providing more information.  Your system, versions, sound card... etc
<mok0> Skiessi: on LP
<Skiessi> kk... but it has worked for someone? 
<Skiessi> *some people? 
<mok0> Skiessi: I am running 2.6.24-11 and that has no problems.  Haven't rebooted in several days
<slangasek> mok0: no, no more information is needed, the bug report documents that the fix is released and it's only a matter of the binaries being built. 
<Skiessi> but in 2.6.24-12
<mok0> slangasek: ok
<Legendario> mok0, it didn't work.  I guess i have to try the "dirty way".  Am I supposed to use a variable like $(CURDIR).  I mean on both methods? 
<mok0> Legendario: Put it in the "build" rule, so the directory will exist before upstream's Makefile tries to install things in it
<mok0> Legendario: you can use $(CURDIR) in the mkdir statement I wrote above
<mok0> Legendario: but you don't need it if you call dh_testdir in the build rule and you don't change directory in there
<Legendario> mok0, dh_testdir is there.  So I am just going to put your statement in it. 
<mok0> Legendario: if it works, patch upstream's Makefile to create a directory $DESTDIR/usr/share/applications
<Legendario> mok0, ok. 
<torkel> siretart: so far I have had better luck by removing mtab and resolv.conf from the nfsroot and using unionfs that using aufs. 
<torkel> siretart: I'm not sure what goes wrong with aufs though
<protonchris> ScottK2: Do you mind taking a look at bug 190744 and giving it another ACK if you are still ok with it.   You ACKed it before, but there have been a lot of changes and I want to make sure that motu-release is ok with it before I subscribe u-u-s.
<ScottK2> protonchris: Looking
<protonchris> ScottK2: thanks
<ScottK2> protonchris: Done
<emgent> heya people
<reduz> Hi People!  Any chance I can get my app ChibiTracker (http://www.chibitracker.com) packaged and included in Ubuntu?  I don't run Ubuntu myself (so i can't package it) but I get several emails from users asking why it is not available for Ubuntu
<reduz> The app is pretty much finished and stable, and has very minimum dependencies
<mok0> reduz: what's the license? 
<reduz> GPL v2
<RainCT> reduz: Hi.  There's feature freeze now for Hardy, so you have two options: a) Wait and get it into Intrepid, or b) Get a Feature Freeze exception for Hardy
<mok0> I'll file a needs-packaging bug for it, then people can pick it up for intrepid
<reduz> RainCT, I'm fine if it's up for intrepid, i really have no hurry myself
<reduz> mok0, thanks! 
<mok0> reduz: np
<mok0> reduz: bug 200783
<mok0> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/200783
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200783 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ChibiTracker -- a portable impulse tracker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200783
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200783 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ChibiTracker -- a portable impulse tracker" [Undecided,New]
<mok0> ubotu, where are you? 
<awen_> how do you make a watch-file if the version is included twice in the url? ...  like http://sk1project.org/downloads/uniconvertor/v1.1.1/uniconvertor-1.1.1.tar.gz
<Legendario> mok0, it worked.  Now i just need you guys to review it on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=lives
<mok0> Legendario: great
<Legendario> and figure out how to make a patch... :-D
<mok0> good for you! 
<Legendario> mok0, thanks for all the help
<mok0> Legendario: np! 
<Legendario> mok0, only one thing: what file should i patch?  The makefile.in or makefile.am? 
<mok0> Legendario: Makefile.am
<Legendario> ok
<mok0> Legendario: and then you need to re-run automake and autoconf
<mok0> Legendario: It is questionable if it's the best solution
<Legendario> mok0, what? 
<mok0> Well, it's a lot to rebuild the autotools system just because of a missing mkdir statement
<mok0> Legendario: send the patch upstream with greetings
<mok0> Legendario: and create the directory in debian/rules.  That
<mok0> s
<mok0> what I would do....
<dijital1> j /#osx
<dijital1> hmmm
<Legendario> mok0, ok.  that's what i am going to do either...
<Legendario> ;-)
<mok0> Legendario: of two evils, choose the lesser :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-11
<RAOF> essial: Welcome! 
<essial> Hello again
<essial> i've been using linux since the early 90's, and now I think I have enough experience to be a good contributor to Ubuntu, since it seems to be one of the best distros out there
<RAOF> Have you seen...
<RAOF> ! contribute
<ubotwo> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<RAOF> ? 
<essial> i've been traversing through it
<essial> been going in circles though :)
<RAOF> Right :).   Do you have some idea of where you'd like to help? 
<essial> my main thing is, at work, and most of my experience is with windows, and also with non-dist (aka, os development itself)
<essial> but i'm moderately familiar with linux, as it has been my only OS for a few years now, and I've done work with Gtk, LibSDL, and have been practicing writing makefiles both manually and with autotools
<RAOF> Right.   So, if you're comfortable coding & debugging, taking some of the apport backtraces on Launchpad and figuring out patches would be awesome. 
<essial> I know just about every language (with the exception of perl)... and to answer your question, No specific area
<essial> see, thats why I need help, I have 0 experience 'debugging' in linux, I do it all the time in windows
<RAOF> Failing that, much of the actual writing of _code_ happens upstream. 
<RAOF> Aaaah, right. 
<essial> but
<essial> I don't mind doing anything really, I just want to help contribute in the most effective way possible
<essial> even if it is not specifically code
<essial> since I will need someone to help, if only a little, to get me started, I figure it best not to waste their time putting me in with an overcrowded group
<lmr_> RAOF: Are you a MOTU already?  Sorry for interrupting the conversation
<essial> no problem lmr_
<RAOF> Hm.   So, I find that the easiest way to contribute is to (1) Use Ubuntu, (2) find something that doesn't work like you'd like it to, (3) fix it ;)
<RAOF> lmr_: Yup. 
<essial> I work better with lists :) Ubuntu is a large collection of things
<lmr_> RAOF: essial: I've been trying to find out some time to help, I'd love to start packaging software for ubuntu
<fmarier> How does one request a sync (from Debian unstable) for a package which has Ubuntu modifications that need to remain there? 
<fmarier> requestsync asks for a reason to remove the Ubuntu modifications...
<ScottK2> fmarier: If the differences need to remain, it's a merge, not a sync
<RAOF> fmarier: One doesn't.   One instead merges the Ubuntu changes into the new debian revision. 
<essial> RAOF: see things like that throw me off right now, so I need to be eased into the linux way of things :)
<RAOF> essial: You can pick a package or group of packages that you're interested in and check out the bugs in Launchpad. 
<essial> so I guess step one is to create a user in launchpad, brb
<RAOF> Or, you can find a specific upstream project that you're interested in, and join up. 
<ScottK2> fmarier: Prepare a debdiff from the new Debian revision to the needed Ubuntu revision attach that to a bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<fmarier> ScottK2: ok, I'll do that.  thanks
<lmr_> RAOF: I was thinking, since I work mainly with open source testing and I already contribute with an upstream test project, maybe there's a Ubuntu quality assurance/test team where my skills can be better used
<RAOF> lmr_: Of course, at the moment what really needs to be done is to fix packages already in Ubuntu. 
<essial> perhaps help make rhythymbox not suck so much, as it seems to be what ubuntu thinks is the replacement for the superior xmms
<lmr_> RAOF: Sure, that's what I meant, taking maintainership of software that's already packaged (orphaned maybe) would be great
<essial> even though once it drops a stream, you have to restart it
<RAOF> lmr_: I believe there is such a group, but I don't know for sure.   You could also help the iso testing team test the releases (alpha X, etc)
<essial> and has no support for easy codecs, or whatever its called
<RAOF> essial: If you're interested in coding, that'd probably be a nice patch to ease your way in :)
<RAOF> Or were you describing xmms?   It's been some time since I've had to install any codecs :)
<essial> the hard part is finding someone over there to help pull me in, well first things first, gotta find the project source page :)
<essial> brb
<lmr_> RAOF: Yeah, we do distro testing (the underlying system, kernel, filesystems, network) and have quite a bit of work on test automation
<lmr_> RAOF: Which packages you take care as a MOTU?  What other groups you're involved with? 
<RAOF> lmr_: I *know* that people do that for Ubuntu.   If you're capable of helping in that, which would be awesome, maybe you should hit the ubuntu-devel mailinglist. 
<lmr_> RAOF: Right, I see
<RAOF> lmr_: We don't really have maintainers as such in Ubuntu.   I tend to fix up stuff that's broken for me.   I've also been lumbered with the Miro package, kinda by default. 
<mathiaz> lmr_: have you checked out the ServerTestingTeam ? 
<mathiaz> lmr_: since you've got some experience with automated testing, we'd love to know wheter the latest development version of ubuntu runs on different hardware
<lmr_> mathiaz: No, I didn't.  I suppose this is the page on the ubuntu wiki
<mathiaz> lmr_: as RAOF mentionned, there is the iso testing team
<mathiaz> lmr_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam
<essial> gah
<essial> rhythmbox is inside the gnomeSVN
<essial> that'd explain why its still 0.11 :)
<RAOF> Yes, but don't worry.   You can use bzr to work with it :)
<essial> and hasn't had an update since december 21, 2007
<RAOF> Really?   Wow. 
<essial> http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/news.html
<mathiaz> lmr_: you should also get in touch with the Ubuntu QA team - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<RAOF> essial: Oh, right.   Hasn't seen a _release_ since the end of last year.   I suppose that is quite a while ago. 
<RAOF> If you're interested in C# and mono and such, banshee-trunk should be getting a preview release, and is a different media player thing, perhaps a bit more like iTunes. 
<lmr_> mathiaz: I've looked at the page.  Do you have any idea where this server hardware comes from? 
<lmr_> mathiaz: Unfortunately the hardware I can't provide
<essial> so is a seemingly desolate project a good place to start then? 
<lmr_> mathiaz: :D
<essial> you talking to me RAOF about banshee
<lmr_> mathiaz: In my case, all the hardware I use (power machines) comes from my employer
<mathiaz> lmr_: this is hardware that people have access to
<mathiaz> lmr_: most of them are through their employer I guess
<lmr_> mathiaz: Hmmm, I see
<mathiaz> lmr_: they can probably have access to them for a couple of hours to do some testing
<RAOF> essial: I don't think rhythmbox is desolate in any way.   And, yes, I was talking to you about banshee. 
<essial> honestly they look very similar
<mathiaz> lmr_: if you're interested in testing, we run iso tests before we release
<essial> though functionality wise, banshee seems to be much further
<mathiaz> lmr_: this is part of the iso testing team. 
<essial> will ubuntu even include that as a normal player you think? 
<essial> sorry for the questions but i'm starting with no knowledge of whats going on :)
<RAOF> essial: Part of the thing is that rhythmbox is fairly stable.   It's in no way unmaintained, though; there've been plenty of recent commits :)
<lmr_> mathiaz: Right, I'm checking where I would fit better
<RAOF> ( See: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/rhythmbox/main/changes for such things )
<mathiaz> lmr_: well - if you want to leverage your testing experience, the QA team is probably eager to hear from you
<mathiaz> lmr_: lars is working on some automated testing of desktop application IIRC
<lmr_> mathiaz: Sure, I'll be glad to help. 
<lmr_> mathiaz: We don't do much GUI testing, we do more kernel layer/command line user space utilities
<essial> ok here's a good general question.  Lets say I want to help develop banshee, so i go to the banshee page, click "developers"
<essial> i see where to go to grab the source with svn
<mathiaz> lmr_: that works also
<mathiaz> lmr_: the server team would be a good place to start then
<mathiaz> lmr_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
<essial> do i then just click on "all current banshee bugs" and work on them? 
<essial> and what If I want to add new things, where would I post that? 
<RAOF> essial: Aaah, right.   Sorry, it's been a while since I needed to learn this sort of culture :)
<lmr_> mathiaz: Thank you very much for your patience man ;) I'll get in touch with those guys
<RAOF> essial: So, things that I would do: I'd subscribe to the banshee mailing list, possibly reading a bit of the archives too. 
<mathiaz> lmr_: great - I'm one of those guys - so you should hang out in #ubuntu-server
<lmr_> mathiaz: Oh really? :)  Nice
<essial> yeah i'm subscribing to their list in a moment
<essial> i just gotta get used to svn again... starteam made me lazy :)
<RAOF> essial: You probably don't need to get used to svn if you don't want to.   bzr-svn should work nicely :)
<RAOF> Of course, that requires you to learn the bzr VCS :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lmr_> essial: svn is pretty easy to get started with, don't worry
<RAOF> essial: Then, I'd checkout the list of open bugs, yeah.   Probably starting with a gnome-love (one with a heart next to it) bug would be good. 
<essial> yeah i've read up on gnome-love
<bddebian> Bye the time bzr finishes downloading you could learn svn ;-P
<essial> should i use rapidsvn, or just svn
<lmr_> essial: If you want, I can send you a quick reference that I put on my desk
<RAOF> lmr_: Yeah.   It's _using_ svn to do non-trivial things that's hard :P
<RAOF> bddebian: Hush! 
<bddebian> :-)
<RAOF> bddebian: bzr is love! 
<lmr_> RAOF: I got your point, but the good thing is that we don't have to do non-trivial things frequently
<RAOF> essial: There's also a banshee IRC channel.   Popping up in there might be a good idea, too. 
<essial> wee console scrolly
<essial> popping
<mok0> Hmm.  Could someone explain how to interpret the "MoM" page?  What are the colors?  What is "Outstanding" vs. "Updated" merges? 
<essial> done grabbing svn
<essial> er banshee
 * RAOF has basically given up on any VCS that he can't make local commits in. 
<essial> now to figure out how to install it
<essial> er compile it
<RAOF> Yup.   Since we have a banshee package, pulling all the build-dependencies is (mostly) easy: you can run "sudo apt-get build-dep banshee" to install all the packages (our) banshee (package) needs to build. 
<StevenK> RAOF: Which leaves git, bzr and svn? 
<mathiaz> mok0: the colors are related to the last time a merge has been done
<essial> its like i need to install autotools and run autogen
<mathiaz> mok0: Outstanding means that the package hasn't been merge during this release cycle. 
<RAOF> StevenK: Which leaves git, bzr, mercurial. 
<mok0> mathiaz: ah, ok, because they are behind, too
<mathiaz> mok0: Updated means that the package has already been merge at least once during this release cycle
<StevenK> RAOF: I thought svn could do --local for commits
<RAOF> Oh, maybe it can. 
<mathiaz> mok0: we try to merge each package at least once during the release cycle
<essial> RAOF: were you talking to me about banshee? 
<RAOF> essial: Yes :)
<essial> i don't want to much up my package tree too bad
<essial> what is build-dep for
 * mok0 thinks the key to the colors should be listed on MoM's web page
<mok0> mathiaz: thanks
<RAOF> StevenK: If you can, then "svn help commit" doesn't know about it. 
<StevenK> RAOF: I might not be remembering correctly
<essial> i see the "configure build-dependencies for source packages" but does that mean downloading all .dev's? 
<essial> nice aparently i need 114 new packages :)
<mok0> essial: you need to create a pbuilder
<essial> meaning? 
<RAOF> mok0: Not for local development. 
<mok0> RAOF: if he want's to avoid installing 114 packages on his own system
<essial> i don't mind as long as it doesn't bomb my dist
<RAOF> essial: pbuilder is a tool which creates a clean build environment to build Ubuntu packages in.   If you're doing upstream development, it's probably more hassle than its worth. 
<essial> i have a very fast pc and connection
<essial> i just don't want to reinstall ubuntu to update my packages :)
<RAOF> The only thing that -dev packages use is disc space, which is cheap. 
<essial> i have over 1tb so
<essial> i'll live
<essial> aparently its done
<essial> nice it took mono 4 seconds to crash on me :)
<RAOF> Always fun. 
<essial> of course not a damn thing compiles :)
<essial> i have more luck with C than C#, and thats scary *sighs*
<essial> could have something to do with the error: Files in variable ASSEMBLY_CSFILES contains variables which cannot be parsed without path to the configure.in being set.  ignoring such files
<RAOF> Pastebinning the full output of autogen is likely to be helpful. 
<RAOF> ! pastebin | essial
<ubotwo> essial: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel.  The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<essial> thats most likely the problem, i didn't run autogen, just loaded the project
<RAOF> essial: Ah, right.   The autotools foo is more likely to be buildable at any one time than the monodevelop project. :) 
<essial> and I hit my usual hurdle with trying to help.. version problems where it requires a version i cannot get without source
<essial> ndesk-dbus must be >= 0.5, i have 0.4.2
<essial> so tell me code gurus, how do I resolve without breaking my package tree
<essial> :)
<RAOF> Aaah.   ndesk-dbus 0.6.0 is in Hardy.   You are presumably using Gutsy. 
<essial> yup
<ScottK2> essial: Work in a chroot. 
<essial> so what do I need to do in order to compile
<mok0> essial: you need to create a pbuilder ;-)
<RAOF> ScottK2: That's an excellent idea. 
<essial> so i gotta clone an entire system to compile a project? 
<mok0> essial: it takes about 3 minutes
<essial> allright, well i'm assuming i will just create a folder and chroot into it
<mok0> ! pbuilder
<ubotwo> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment.  To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<essial> reading, thanks! 
<azeem> essial: you've been "using linux since the early 90's", but never compiled a project? 
<mok0> mono is evil
<RAOF> essial: Such is the way with developmnet code - particularly long-term development branches such as banshee-trunk. 
<essial> azeem: sure have
<mok0> mono is evil and should be avoided
<ScottK2> mok0: If you think that, just wait until you see moonlight
<essial> ./configure --prefix = /usr/bin && make && make install works like a charm 99% of the time
<mok0> moonlight is also evil
<RAOF> mok0: Mono seems to be the thing most likely to allow me to, in some glorious future, not need to care that there's a C library for what I want but not a $LANGUAGE_OF_CHOICE library. 
<mok0> Imaging when M$ pulls the carpet and we have 1000 mission critical applications....
<mok0> Imagine
<essial> anyway, i'm not frustrated, i'll read the wiki and follow it
<RAOF> mok0: No one seems to have convincing evidonce that this carpet exists. 
<mok0> It does
<mok0> They've told us
<RAOF> They've said "linux infringes patents" (which I assume is what you're referring to).   This is undobtedly the case. 
<ScottK2> RAOF: At the very least they've announced they have carpets that they won't say what it affects. 
<RAOF> There's probably a second 'u' in "undoubtedly". :) 
<essial> oh goody here it goes
<ScottK2> Believing that none of those carpets affect Mono is an exercise in optimism at best. 
<mok0> ScottK2: they are patiently waiting
<ScottK2> Sure
<ScottK2> That's my expectation too. 
<mok0> gnome used to be a very nice C based system. 
<RAOF> mok0: Incidentally, http://people.freedesktop.org/~racarr/ms.gif
<RAOF> But C is a crap language to write UIs in. 
<slangasek> haskell FTW
<RAOF> Yeah! 
<mok0> RAOF: :-D
<RAOF> I'm not saying that C is inherently bad, just that it's good at things which are nearly pointless on the desktop. 
<essial> C is good at starting words for example
<essial> very bad at ending them
<azeem> coc
<essial> exactly
<mok0> RAOF: Anyway, Miguel himself seems to have come to the conclusion that it might not have been a very good idea to introduce mono in gnome...
<RAOF> As far as I'm aware, the only mono-dependency in Gnome is tomboy? 
<mok0> There's a couple more, can't remember which
<RAOF> fspot, beagle, banshee, off the top of my head.   None of which are actually a part of Gnome. 
<mok0> ok, yeah those are the ones. 
<mok0> Oh, it's used in serpentine, that I have been merging
<RAOF> Oh, really?   Wow. 
<mok0> or rather, a plugin, which creates a .dll
<RAOF> You can write serpentine plugins in CIL?   Wow. 
<essial> should i do the pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd
<RAOF> essial: You don't really need the buildd variant.   But something like that, yes. 
<essial> i'm still not quite sure what pbuilder does yet so :)
<mok0> essial: basically, it creates a tarball of a system
<mok0> essial: when building, it will unpack the tar ball in a chroot, copy the source package to it, and download the build-depends
<RAOF> essial: For you, the interesting part is that you'll have a minimal Hardy system in a tarball. 
<essial> is hardy the codename for the dev of ubuntu, or just the name of the next version
<mok0> essial, the tar ball will be ~80Mb
<StevenK> essial: Hardy is code name for the next version. 
<StevenK> essial: Unlike Debian, where sid is always in development. 
<essial> ok i created the pbuilder environment, and added the hardy sources to the list
<essial> now its saying apt-get source bc (which i'm assuming should be apt-get source get banshee)
<essial> it doesn't say anything about chroot
<mok0> essial: are you  building your package? 
<essial> I'll have to compile it so I assume so
<StevenK> essial: No get, 'apt-get source banshee'
<mok0> essial: did you do "pbuilder --build <yourpackage.dsc> ? 
<essial> all i've done thus far is pbuilder create ....
<essial> and added the entry to my deb-src list
<mok0> essial: it doesn't do the chroot when it creates
<essial> i did it in my normal environment
<essial> so i'm assuming i need to chroot before making that mod
<mok0> essial, pbuilder --login
<RAOF> mok0: He's not actually building a package.   He's trying to do some upstream banshee development :)
<mok0> Aha
<essial> and learning everything on the way up
<mok0> In other words, having fun :-)
<essial> ok i sudo pbuilder --login, it extracted the tarball and i'm assuming now i'm sitting at the chroot i just built
<RAOF> Yup. 
<essial> so NOW i add that line to the sources and apt-get the source
<mok0> essial: you might want a --save-after-login switch on there too
<essial> what does that switch mean
<essial> keep any file changes i presume
<mok0> essial: because the normal behaviour is to zap the chroot
<mok0> essial: yes
<essial> ok so I understand the basics of pbuilder, it lets you compile without fscking up your current system with beta packages
<essial> correct? 
<mok0> yes
<essial> see, i'm learning :)
<mok0> cool, huh? 
<essial> yeah that makes sense
<essial> can you move files in and out of the chroot
<essial> (into the host environment)
<mok0> essial: ... and install all the build-depends
<mok0> (it does that automagically)
<RAOF> essial: You can, yes.   You can mount /home in your pbuilder chroot. 
<RAOF> I forget quite how to do that, though.   There's some configuration as to what you actually want mounted inside the chroot. 
<essial> changing packages to hardy
<mok0> essial: didn't you create the pbuilder from hardy packages? 
<essial> i guess not
<essial> remember i've never heard of pbuilder until 15 minutes ago
<essial> --variant=hardy ? 
<essial> ah
<essial> --distribution=hardy
<essial> or not
<mok0> essial: yes, yes
 * essial sighs.. not working
<essial> sorry I know i'm being a pain
<essial> sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --distrobution=hardypbuilder remove
<essial> er -remove
<mok0> pbuilder --create --distribution=hardy
<mok0> pbuilder --update --distribution=hardy --override-config
<essial> ah the = was throwing it off
<essial> next question, is it always only one pbuilder environment or do you ever want more than one normally
<mok0> essial: you can have as many as you want, but you need to set up the .pbuilderrc file to handle it sensibly
<protonchris> Which channel the best place to ask about the ubuntu-release team? 
<mok0> essial: there's also a script called pbuilder-dist that can help you with having several pbuilders
<essial> ok well pbuilder is up and running, gotta find the name of the hyena package now
<mok0> essiel, there's a bunch of useful stuff in ubuntu-dev-tools
<mok0> Well, time to go to bed for me.  See you later guys! 
<essial> aparently banshee isn't in the normal sources
<essial> ok i'm getting the hang of it
<RAOF> essial: Hm.   Banshee is in Universe.   I'm not sure if that's enabled in a default pbuilder setup. 
<essial> i'm testing building gedit since i know that will be simple to do
<essial> then i'll add universe
<RAOF> Right, that might be a good idea :)
<essial> apt-get build-dep gedit worked :)
<essial> and apt-get source gedit pulled the sources into home so
<essial> heres my question RAOF: is the apt-get source getting the latest source dist, NOT the svn dist? 
<essial> i'm assuming so
<essial> in other words should i only apt-get build-dep gedit, THEN just svn gedit
<RAOF> Yes. 
<essial> well i compiled gedit, jsut can't run it for obvious reasons :)
<RAOF> apt-get source gets the "source package" for the package in the repositories - the upstream tarball that is the code + some metadata about how to build it & such. 
<essial> last question: i just complied gedit in a pbuilder console
<essial> how am I supposed to test it? 
<essial> just copy it over to a local dir? 
<essial> or is there some way to run a shell X in a window
<RAOF> You should be able to get X in the pbuilder environment, but I'm not sure how. 
 * essial sighs
<Hobbsee> copying .Xauthority in there, iirc
<RAOF> See!   People who know more than me :)
<essial> so should I just install a hardy live install then? 
<essial> because it doesn't even have X or gnome in the chroot
<essial> i'd have to re-get all of those packages
<essial> it'd be just as quit to re-install with hardy and have it just work :)
<essial> *easy
<RAOF> If Hobbsee is right, copying the .Xauthority file from your home directory should allow apps to run on your X server. 
<RAOF> Other options include running Hardy in a VM, or having a full hardy install. 
<superm1> or just xhost +, DISPLAY=:0 app
<RAOF> Sorry, it seems that Banshee wasn't such a good starting point! 
<squentin> essial: you can also install the needed libraries in a folder and set some environment variables so it is found
<squentin> I'm just not sure what env variables, at least PKG_CONFIG_PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<crimsun> xauth is generally preferable to xhost. 
<crimsun> or, ssh -Y
<emgent> heya crimsun :)
<crimsun> hi emgent :)
<superm1> but for the purposes of a pbuilder for someone new, it's simplicity
<essial> hey wouldn't it be just as easy to install a full dist inside of vmware? 
<RAOF> It might be, yes. 
<RAOF> If you happen to already have vmware (or some other virtualisation jobby) set up. 
<essial> is there a hardy cd or should i just base install and enable hardy sources
<ScottK2> You can do either
<ScottK2> One advantage of the pbuilder approach is you always know you are starting with a clean chroot.   You can do that in a virtual environment, but you do need to rememberto do it. 
<essial> i can just save a copy of the built system
<essial> but then x and everything runs out of the box
<ScottK2> Yes.   You can
<essial> cool well that will make things much nicer
<essial> do you guys run hardy for your main system? 
<essial> and to answer your question RAOF: yes, I have vmware as I do os development from time to time
<ScottK2> essial: I've got several machines.   The one that runs Hardy is just for development and testing. 
<essial> torrents are awsome :) its only pulling 500kb/sec but thats better than the 90 the server was doing
<RAOF> I do use hardy as my main system. 
<RAOF> It means that I hit bugs more often, so I'm more motivated to fix them ;)
<essial> perhaps i should do so too then
<RAOF> It'll *certainly* force you to learn about apt ;)
<essial> that would allow me to easily develop native right? 
<essial> i know how to use apt-get and such
<essial> i'm not afraid of the console, believe me
<essial> i just have to learn the new stuff.. i use to use emerge and friends
<RAOF> Running hardy is an exercise in being certain that the packages apt wants to remove won't seriously annoy you. 
<essial> it was always funny getting the base system running, then calling "emerge gnome" and watching it compile like 350 packages
<essial> what do you mean RAOF
<emgent> Fujitsu, ping
<RAOF> essial: Well, packages don't necessarily build in the right order, so new packages appear with unmet dependencies, which apt will then want to uninstall on dist-upgrade, or suchlike. 
<essial> so can't I just go to package manager and just update individual packages? 
<essial> with "mark all upgrades"
<emgent> Fujitsu, why you dont use patch system in bug #191488 ? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 191488 in mplayer "[mplayer] [DSA-1496-1] several buffer overflows" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191488
<RAOF> It's just a bit more hit-and miss. 
<emgent> can i work on this bug for add patches with patch system? 
<RAOF> essial: With sufficient caution and a fair knowledge of the internals Hardy will only be unusable a couple of days in the dev cycle, give or take. 
<Fujitsu> emgent: Only Dapper has a patch system.  Feisty and Gutsy are maintained in bzr. 
<essial> 760kb/sec..
<essial> RAOF: when the new ubuntu version is completed, do old versions upgrade easily, or must you download and install the new iso
<emgent> uhm ok Fujitsu
<RAOF> essial: Upgrades are supported.   See, for example...
<RAOF> ! upgrade > essial
<Fujitsu> emgent: Do not upload a new debdiff for feisty or gutsy unless you also have a bzr branch with those changes. 
<emgent> Fujitsu, sure np
<essial> they really should make contributing to linux a lot less painful :)
<essial> i guess thats one weakness to a package-tree style system
<RAOF> essial: I'm not sure that it's actually painful, it's just a different culture. 
<essial> well I guess i need to buy some gloves and grow my chin hair out more
<essial> :)
 * RAOF suggests white kid gloves. 
<essial> i'll figure it out, i really do want to contribute
<essial> 80% on the cd
<essial> i'm just going to nuke my install, its no big deal
 * essial has three hard drives, one for windows, one for data, and one for linux
<essial> I must say though, I am impressed with how far wine is progressing
<essial> I poped in the orange box cd, ran the setup, installed steam and the games, downloaded the updates, and everything ran with 0 problems
<LaserJock> is there any good tool for tracking memory leaks? 
<nixternal> valgrind
<RAOF> As long as it doesn't SIGILL on AMD64 :)
<essial> hey
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure how to find what app to run valgrind on
<essial> I'm on the beta now, it looks awsome, but now i get "Error: aclocal version 1.9 or better is required to configure banshee" :(
<LaserJock> my laptop's just using too much memory
<LaserJock> but I can't pinpoint an app that's doing it
<RAOF> essial: You probably need to install automake? 
<RAOF> LaserJock: Can't top/htop/gnome-system-monitor help there? 
<LaserJock> they don't seem to
<LaserJock> it seems like the sum of the apps mem usage doesn't agree with the total used
<RAOF> Death by a thousand cuts? 
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> I go from 250MB usage at startup to 500MB after a day or two
<LaserJock> with no apps open
<essial> i thought linux was designed to use all of your ram always
<essial> no sense freeing ram unless you need to
<LaserJock> well, that is true
<essial> thats why apps start up faster after the first time through
<LaserJock> but if it's holding on to ram it shouldn't I'd like it to not
<essial> and I know caching is the vast majority of my ram
<essial> my 2gb of ram fills up to 99% within a day or two
<essial> but 1.4gb of it is cache
<LaserJock> oh, I'm not talking about cached memory
<essial> well the system monitor should show memory usage
<LaserJock> I'm talking about used memory
<RAOF> There aren't some processes from other users being missed? 
<essial> YAY banshee compiles
<LaserJock> no other users
<essial> woo
<LaserJock> and I'm looking at all processes
<LaserJock> I don't know, it's probably not a big deal, it's just annoying that I don't know where it's going
<essial> OMG
<essial> holy hell they made some changes to the system monitor
<RAOF> Drivers could concievably leak memory not accounted for anywhere? 
<essial> grr DapCore of course refuses to compile
<essial> everyting else works though :)
<LaserJock> ok, so if I add up all the processes >=1MB usage I get 312MB and I've got 512MB used
<RAOF> You probably can't squirrel away 200MB in tiny processes...
<LaserJock> and that's with about 1/2 since last reboot
<RAOF> 1/2?   Half a day?   Half a week? 
<LaserJock> day
<LaserJock> sorry
<RAOF> Hm.   Well, my amd64 hardy web/mythtv/pulse/irssi server has been up for 26 days now, and it's at 600MB usage, which seems not unreasonable. 
<essial> well good news is i could compile banshee
<essial> the bad news is MonoDevelop refuses to compile it
<RAOF> That's not uncommon. 
<superm1> RAOF, you haven't been seeing any memory leaks in mythbackend have you ? 
<superm1> anything excessive at least...
<superm1> there was a report of UPnP having fun
<RAOF> I haven't.   Or, at least, the leaks have been below 10Mb/day or so :)
<superm1> na, this was like 1200 in a day
<RAOF> Then again, my mythbackend doesn't see a huge load. 
<superm1> yeah neither did his
<superm1> it was just UPnP deciding to leak and leak and leak
<RAOF> Thinking of which, any joy making my laptop's Totem an awesome upnp mythtv frontend? :) 
<superm1> yeah its all there except for the UPnP code to find your backend nicely
<superm1> i've got the package in debian
<superm1> but i couldnt get the patch to build on totem
<RAOF> Wicked. 
<superm1> or totem to build at all for that matter
<RAOF> Less wicked. 
<superm1> so at this point if u put the stuff in gconf-editor, it works
<superm1> but the auto detect stuff isn't there yet
<RAOF> Again incidentally, Gloss looks cool.   I'll help you package it for Intrepid if you like :)
<RAOF> Right.   Which requires me to dig up all that config stuff. 
<superm1> well if it's ready for intrepid
<superm1> but yeah, help appreciated either way
<superm1> sometime during interpid time i'm going to revamp all the packaging for myth-*
<superm1> it's turned into a cobbled complicated mess
<superm1> so it needs some cdbs loving
<ethana2> ..is firefox3 beta4 on it's way to repos? 
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart> torkel: can you give me a list of files you had to remove? 
 * dholbach hugs siretart
 * siretart hugs dholbach back! :) 
<dholbach> siretart: how are you doing? 
<siretart> dholbach: I'm about to leave for the office
<dholbach> siretart: have a great day then! :) 
<siretart> cu in about an hour! :) 
<torkel> siretart: resolv.conf* and mtab* (not sure if you have to remove the last one if you add -n to romountopt)
<torkel> siretart: the live kernel is a -11 though.  I have no idea if they have changed anything in aufs in -12. 
<siretart> torkel: ah, thanks.  will try that
<siretart> dholbach: well, we're more or less finished with the move, but we need to finish the old flat
 * dholbach hugs siretart
<dholbach> siretart: all the best with that! 
<siretart> I really expect I'll can invest more time into intrepid.  The last 6 month haven't been funny for me workwise
<siretart> I'll tell you when I see you next time
 * dholbach hugs siretart :))
<siretart> :)
<DaveMorris> who can I poke to get my patch for bug #195433 which I uploaded on 25/2
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 195433 in opensg "libopensg-core-dev is missing dependices which are called on in the pkg-config file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195433
<rexbron> jcastro: Hey Jorge, have you had any responces to my request yet? 
<YokoZar> dholbach: I have a sponsored upload with my name attached to it now, would reapplying to MOTU now be a good idea? 
<dholbach> YokoZar: your /+packages page still has only four entries - who did the sponsoring? -  did you use  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ? 
<\sh> siretart: what must I do to enable qt-faststart tool in ffmpeg package? 
<\sh> dholbach: /me sponsored the last wine upload
<YokoZar> dholbach: \sh did
<\sh> YokoZar: I think what dholbach meant is that your list of packages is still not enough...maybe you should start working on dholbachs "really-fix-it" bug list ;)
<YokoZar> No what he means is that my launchpad page still doesn't show Gutsy/Hardy Wine packages
<YokoZar> Also I closed a couple of bugs from that list ;)
<dholbach> yeah that's really weird
<dholbach> if you did an upload it should show up in that list
<YokoZar> Maybe it's because he added one of his own changes to mine in the same push
<\sh> regarding -changes scotts name is on it
<dholbach> maybe best to ask in #launchpad if anything goes wrong there
<\sh> YokoZar: no...it parses changelog and there is your name
<\sh> YokoZar: I never touched your debian/changelog tag line..and debuild -S -sa -k<my gpg key> doesn't change it magically
<YokoZar> hmm
<\sh> YokoZar: regarding my +packages list last wine is 0.9.56
<Mez> \sh, you're the wine expert here right#? 
<dholbach> Mez: YokoZar is
<\sh> Mez: yokozar is
<\sh> YokoZar: I found the mistake
<Mez> YokoZar / \sh - is it possible to have something installed system wide for wine (not using ~/.wine)
<\sh> YokoZar: please add your ubuntu.com address to LP
<YokoZar> Mez: Not yet.   To do that Wine would need to support registries in multiple places
<YokoZar> \sh: Oh I might have an old key up there that didn't have the ubuntu address yeah
<\sh> YokoZar: that's why it's not showing up
<\sh> lunch
<Mez> YokoZar, :( I want to set something up so that I can see if I can get a wine install of winrar ...
<achadwick> \sh: sort of.  Wine mostly doesn't care if a file is a symlink if it doesn't have to write to it
<Mez> (they provide a package, but it'd be nice if you could apt-get it)
<YokoZar> Mez: If the app has no registry entries (ie, a "portable" app), this is much easier
<Mez> YokoZar, how can I tell if it has registry entries? 
<YokoZar> dholbach: looks like a dupe launchpad account was made: https://edge.launchpad.net/~scottritchie-ubuntu/+packages  (I'm merging it in now)
<YokoZar> Mez: One way to try is to install it into one .wine, rename .wine, copy the folder over manually, then see if it runs
<YokoZar> copy over manually into a new (clean) .wine that is
<achadwick> So you can make a WINEROOT (like ~/.wine) for each user with cp -rs, then enumerate what your win32 binary needs to write to, and replace those symlinks with real files
<Mez> YokoZar, what do I copy over - the drive_c? 
<YokoZar> Mez: No, just the application you're testing.   Maybe drive_c/program files/winrar or something
<Mez> YokoZar, it was wiped anyways
<Mez> It does seem to have registrey files, but doesnt seem to need them (except for registering)
<YokoZar> Mez: another possible hack is modifying wine's system.reg file with what you need (all this is used for is the default registry at wineprefixcreate time, ie when making .wine for the first time)
<YokoZar> dholbach: https://edge.launchpad.net/~scottritchie/+packages  is good now :)
<Mez> YokoZar, I just tried running it without registry stuff, and it created that registry stuff. 
<Mez> YokoZar, what about installing it to a random directory, and then having it run from there? 
<Mez> (as it creates what it needs, and will just create new stuff when a new user runs it)
<YokoZar> Nice, it's ideal when apps remake the registry stuff they need.   That way you could run them from wherever. 
<YokoZar> So, yes, it could be packaged fairly straightforwardly then (unless it needs to write to it's own folder)
<Mez> YokoZar, it'd probs need some hacking with the script...
<YokoZar> Well yeah
<Mez> seeing as it wants to put everything in ~/.winrar
<YokoZar> Really? 
<Mez> YokoZar, yup
<Mez> (It's derived from the picasa scripts)
<Mez> export WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.winrar
<YokoZar> Picassa uses its own internal Wine, not the system one
<Mez> lol - well that makes things nice and easy
<YokoZar> So it's running it's own separate wineserver and registry and everything
<Mez> ah, fuck... I didnt notice that
<Mez> yeah it is
<Mez> :(
<Mez> YokoZar, which I presume means it'd be a pita to get them to accept? 
<Mez> (though, to be fair, it could mean that I can use a single registry for it
<YokoZar> Mez: eh?   what do you mean accept here? 
<Mez> YokoZar, I dont know - my brain isnt working
<YokoZar> A proper Ubuntu package for any Windows application would use the system Wine, I think.   At least one we supply.   Google ships their own internal one, inefficient as it is, since users so frequently change their system Wine. 
<Mez> YokoZar, yeah, but i'm unsure as to whether this'd work with the system wine
<YokoZar> You could just try the procedure I gave above with a downloaded winrar installer and see if that breaks anything
<YokoZar> (namely, if the app can reinstall its registry entries when they're missing or if it relies on the installer to do that)
<YokoZar> Also if the app can run from a read-only directory
<Mez> It has a sort of "in the middle" application that runs/installs winrar
<Mez> It's kind of strange
<YokoZar> Is there any place to get statistics on how often particular packages are downloaded / how many users total there are? 
<YokoZar> Other than the "stars of popularity" in gnome-app-install I can't really find anything concrete
<\sh> YokoZar: if then on popcon.ubuntu.com
<\sh> YokoZar: but no real numbers...
<YokoZar> intresting, 165k wine users
<\sh> YokoZar: it's inaccurate...all people who are not enabled popcon are not matched
<\sh> s/are/have/
<YokoZar> True.   Popcon is a default checkbox at install time, right? 
<Laney> It's disabled by default
<Laney> And hidden under "Advanced" on the last page of the installer, AFAIK
<YokoZar> Ahh, that changes things a bit. 
<\sh> YokoZar: but the impact of the broken wine on a devel release...was enough for me to tell, that people declare wine as important....
<\sh> (mostly to play CS on linux ;))
<YokoZar> Haha yeah when Wine was segfaulting on Hardy Alpha 5 we got like 10 duplicate bug reports and 60 people posting in the launchpad thread.   That's a hint right there ;)
<\sh> YokoZar: when I'm tired of wine, I'll file an MainInclusionReport for Wine, so that our colleagues can deal with it *harharhar*
<YokoZar> \sh: It's been brought up every year (with the expectation that Wine 1.0 would be out within a year) for the past 4 years now. 
<YokoZar> Truthfully though Wine going into Main would be something that would need to happen if we ever wanted to start supporting a package like Mez's winrar
<\sh> YokoZar: well, I was thinking more about e.g. "Picasa" from Google..which has imho more users then Mez's winrar :)
<YokoZar> \sh: True.   We could easily put Picassa into the partner repo, for instance. 
<slicer> dholbach: About bug 194836, the "logical" to me seems to have the mumble-server-web package conflict with a earlier version of mumble-server, however the debian policy says a Conflicts should "almost never" have an earlier than version clause.  Is this one of the rare cases, or should it simply Replaces: it? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 194836 in mumble "Update to 1.1.3 (bugfixes)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194836
<\sh> YokoZar: correct :)
<YokoZar> Or any app like it.   Hell, no reason any old application couldn't be packaged this way (provided it worked in Wine).   That was one of the original goals of Lindows click and run, actually - to share revenue selling Windows software.   Wine just didn't work too well back then. 
<YokoZar> For MOTU purposes, we could package free apps without good linux equivalents (say, eMule)
<\sh> YokoZar: if it compiles from source, sure :)
<YokoZar> \sh: True.   Getting Visual Studio programs to compile on Linux has been a fantasy of mine for a while. 
<\sh> btw...any reason why we don't have APC (php optimizer/cache) in our archives, but only xcache? 
<YokoZar> There was some interest in it by one of the scons developers.   I should get back in touch with him.   Basically the idea was to run a visual studio project through some magic python script and then end up with an scons project that we could build in linux with winelib
<\sh> YokoZar: what about the propietary MSVC compiler crap? 
<YokoZar> \sh: Some of that is portable.   The weird patented exception handling, for instance, can be handled with some macros to translate it into GCC stuff.   The windows API header files, on the other hand, are handled by Winelib's reimplementation. 
<\sh> YokoZar: well, the latter is not a problem actually..but the former will be a big piece of work to do
 * \sh brb
<dholbach> slicer: I'd use the replaces
 * dholbach is out for a dogwalk now
<dholbach> see you later
<mok0> It's something they do for geeks now.  Give them a dog so they get into the open once in a while :-P
<Hobbsee> open?   what's that? 
<mok0> hehe
 * Hobbsee wonders if that has something to do with the big blue room
<mok0> Whatever it is, dholbach is heading there...
<Hobbsee> scary.   will he come back? 
<mok0> Hobbsee: ask on the #future channel
<Iulian> Hey
<YokoZar> \sh_away: regarding macros, there are already some in wine's exception.h file
<emgent> heya people
<shibata> Can I list multiverse package in Suggestion/Recommend fields of main/universe package? 
<persia> shibata: As "Suggests:", yes.   As "Recommends:", no. 
<shibata> persia: thx
<\sh> re
<slytherin> has anyone tried installing elisa on hardy?  Because I am getting broken depends
<persia> slytherin: My apt-cache agrees with your experience, and expects elisa to be unable to be installed due to a lack of plugins.   Perhaps there was a FTBFS for elisa plugins, or a missing sync, or perhaps the dependencies are incorrect. 
<slytherin> persia: qa.ubuntuwire.com is stil not up right? 
<persia> slytherin: Doesn't resolve for me.   https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds or http://members.ping.de/~mb/buildstatus_hardy/ may help you in the meantime
<slytherin> persia: this looks more like missing sync because I can not find any source package for all those plugins
<persia> slytherin: Quite possible.   Getting a new package freeze exception for this sort of broken behaviour is usually not too difficult, although it may be worth investigating when the dependency was added. 
<persia> bddebian: Hey (and no, still no attal patch). 
<slytherin> persia: yes checking same. 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi persia
<bddebian> persia: NP.   I'm actually trying to build from cvs now but having even worse problems :-(
<persia> bddebian: You do like to make it difficult for yourself :)  Thank you. 
<bddebian> persia: :-)
<bddebian> persia: What did you ever decide with CTSim? 
<persia> bddebian: To patch it to not build the GUI, but that's on my patch list, and I lost last week, and am still catching up on communications, and haven't done anything yet this week. 
<bddebian> Heh.   Not sick I hope? 
<persia> bddebian: Not anymore :)
<bddebian> Oh :-(
<mok0> Huh?  Why doesn't emacs have a python-mode in hardy?  Do I need to install a special package? 
<mok0> python-mode...
<mok0> :-/
<slytherin> persia: Looks like lool has just added all the plugin packages about 2 hours ago.  Damn, no work left for me to be done. :-( 
<mok0> nope, doesnt
<mok0> work
<jussi01> could someone give me a quick rundown on the proceedure to add an icon to a package? ( or point me somewhere?) 
<slytherin> jussi01: First check if upstream has added any icon recently.  if now design one of your own. :-) 
<jussi01> slytherin: yeah, we have the icon, Im more wondering on the proceedure of adding it to the package
<slytherin> jussi01: which package? 
<jussi01> genpo
<jussi01> ! info genpo
<ubotwo> Package genpo does not exist in gutsy
<jussi01> ! info genpo hardy
<jussi01> slytherin: its one of our packages included in ubuntu studio, just my skills are a litle rusty
<slytherin> jussi01: I believe you will have to get source of the package in hardy.  then add a change log entry, add icon file.  you may need to change .desktop or .desktop.in file.  I can not give instructions this way.  You have to try it yourself. 
<jussi01> slytherin: ok, great
<\sh> ScottK: ping...would you like to review bug #200996 pls? :) 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200996 in ffmpeg "[FFMPEG] missing qt-faststart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200996
<\sh> ScottK: siretart is ok with this change and I filed it to debian, too :)
<\sh> grmpf...wrong window..ffmpeg is main ;) so -devel is better
 * Hobbsee adds a few more bugs to the "done" pile
<Hobbsee> jdong: can you check 193784 please?   i've sent it to you guys
<slytherin> \sh: synaptic still shows me ffmpeg in universe. 
<\sh> slytherin: Rejected:
<\sh> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main' of file 'ffmpeg_0.cvs20070307-5ubuntu7.dsc'
<Iulian> jussi01: Also be sure that you add dh_desktop to debian/rules and dh_install debian/<pkg>.desktop /usr/share/applications.  The icon needs to be 32x32 or 48x48
<Iulian> jussi01: You may also have to install the icon to /usr/share/pixmaps
<\sh> slytherin: the ffmpeg bin package is in universe...but we are talking about "source pkg" ;)
<slytherin> \sh: :-D
<Iulian> jussi01: That would be something like dh_install debian/<pkg_name>.xpm usr/share/pixmaps in debian/rules
<jussi01> Iulian: thanks.  is it possible to use an svg? 
<jdong> bug 193784
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 193784 in gutsy-backports "Amarok Size Mismatch (gutsy-backports)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193784
<Iulian> jussi01: I've never used an svg.  I don't know. 
<jdong> Hobbsee: that seems like an archive issue, I don't think I can do anything about it
<jdong> other than forward it to pitti
 * jdong looks one channel left
<Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, true
<slytherin> jussi01: sure it is possible to use svg and it is recommended since they are scalable without loss in quality.  Check /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/
<slytherin> jussi01: rather /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/
<Hobbsee> dholbach: iv'e done 6.   can i stop now?   :)
<emgent> jdstrand, ping
<dholbach> Hobbsee: no... keep working on them! :-) 
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/really-fix-it :)
<emgent> jdstrand, when you have time please commit debdiff in bug #200987 on -security, Thanks
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200987 in lighttpd "CVE-2008-1270 when mod_userdir is loaded but not configured, the server's whole disk becomes remotely readable" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200987
<jdstrand> emgent: sure-- thanks! 
<emgent> jdstrand, thanks to you
<emgent> oh jdstrand
<emgent> see also https://edge.launchpad.net/~emgent/+assignedbugs?search=Search&field.status=In+Progress
<jdstrand> emgent: right, I looked at it yesterday
<emgent> ok thanks :)
<jussi01> can someone suggest a sample package which has good menu and .desktop files? ( for reference)
<RainCT> heya
<Laney> Is there any problem with KDE and gksu? 
<Laney> alternatively, is there anything else that KDE uses? 
<mruiz> hi all
<persia> Laney: There are kdesu and su-to-root, but you may need to adjust dependencies to use those.   I don't remember a general solution ever being agreed upon by all. 
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<RainCT> hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi RainCT
<Laney> persia: So do you think it's OK for a package to just use gksu then? 
<persia> Laney: Depends on the package.   If it's a KDE package, better to use kdesu, but lots of non-DE specific packages use either su-to-root or gksu, and many KDE users have one or both of those installed. 
<persia> If the "binary" is a wrapper script of any sort, arranging for elevated permissions in the wrapper script allows one to check what is available on the local system, providing some flexibility. 
<hellboy195> persia: ah I see you :) do you remember fail2ban.  About the SRU to dapper !? 
<Laney> persia: Yeah, actually it's ettercap-gtk, so I guess there wouldn't be a problem with gksu in that case. 
<persia> Laney: No, not for ettercap-gtk :)
<Laney> Excellent
<persia> hellboy195: Yes.   I thought Dapper support ended in June 2011, so we didn't need it because it next was a problem in February 2012, but I'm unsure if the patch allows one to read old log files, in which case many Dapper users might want it to recover their two-week old logs. 
<Laney> DktrKranz2: Can you review the patch again in that case? ;)  re: the recommends: gksu - it already does! 
<hellboy195> persia: yeah.  that's the problem.  Do you think it's a big problem for people to delete the old log files?  Or we have to ask the patch submitter if it's working also with the old log files
<DktrKranz2> Laney: great!  Now I'm unable to do it (Windows has some troubles with apt-get...), I'll check when I'll back home.  Thanks :)
<persia> hellboy195: Better to test locally: the bug submitter already deleted the old log files.   I'm not in favour of a solution that requires deletion of user data, but I suspect most users have already found some workaround at this point. 
<persia> DktrKranz2: Even with cygwin?   While it may be hard to test, or compile, or anything, at least apt-get ought work. 
<hellboy195> persia: so is it still worth it? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: streamtuner? 
<DktrKranz2> persia: since it requires X to work, and no time to setup cygwin at work, I prefer to test it on a real Hardy ;)
<persia> hellboy195: That's a hard question.   You might want to direct it to the motu-sru team, who are more qualified to have an opinion.   Doing nothing often feels safer, but there may be users who want to check the old data. 
<persia> DktrKranz2: cygwin isn't any good for testing anyway, only for manual package inspection :)
<hellboy195> persia: I will ask the sru folks.  thanks :)
<DktrKranz2> I've got etch on our servers, but it's not a good idea doing some sponsoring there
<persia> heh.   No :)
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: which bug?  The famous one? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: where I subscribed Hobbsee to help us.  You unassigned it from you
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: yes, I'm still subscribed, though
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: I'm afraid that it will take some time if we can close the bug ^^
<DktrKranz2> basically I'm just unsure why it was removed.  If someone has a clear idea, it's good. 
<DktrKranz2> that's why i resubscribed u-u-s
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: and I subscribed Hobbsee, you know ^^
<hellboy195> LucidFox: around? 
<LucidFox> yes
<hellboy195> LucidFox: so.  beagle merge is open since nearly 3 weeks.  you and slomo are subscribed.  WHAT's going on? 
<LucidFox> I just forgot about it :(
<hellboy195> xD
<hellboy195> LucidFox: ok ^^ and why (did you) is slomo subscribed? 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: daniel subscribed him
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: is beagle such "high" priority? 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: what about that SRU-related bug persia and you were discussing earlier? 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: being replaced by tracker, it's high-prio no more
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: yes but why then 3 motu's looked at it ^^
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: bug #197348 .  Dapper users have problems with their old log files
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 197348 in fail2ban "Please sync fail2ban 0.8.1-5 from Debian(Unstable)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197348
<jussi01> hmmm, can anyone give me a pointer on the following error when i try to build a package with pbuilder? 
<jussi01> make: *** [clean] Error 127
<jussi01> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
<persia> jussi01: typically means that it couldn't run the clean rule.   A frequent cause is an inability to unpatch the sources.   Are your patches reversible?   Are the patched files further modified by the build? 
<jussi01> persia: please ignore me... (i guess it helps to have debhelper installed?) :) 
<persia> jussi01: Well, yes, not having build-dependencies installed can also cause that problem :)
<hellboy195> persia: how are my chances to get nexuiz 2.4 into hardy?  have you some information about that? 
<persia> hellboy195: I've no information about that at all, although I suspect that given the close integration in the Games team between Debian and Ubuntu, you'd have difficulty getting a freeze exception unless it was already available in Debian. 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: correct one is bug #197348, and next "Feb 29th" will be on 2012 (out of Dapper support cycle).  If I'm wright, only Hardy (and newer) will be supported on 2012, so there's no need to prepare a SRU (unless my misunderstandings). 
<persia> If you really want it, first find a Games team member around, and get them to verify it is all updated and good in Debian.   After that, check with motu-release. 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 197348 in fail2ban "Please sync fail2ban 0.8.1-5 from Debian(Unstable)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197348
<hellboy195> persia: hmm debian folks are slow.  not in sid yet :(
<persia> DktrKranz2: The problem is that the current Dapper fail2ban crashes when reading logfiles from 29th February 2008. 
<QbixAway> Can somebody tell me how bug contact works?  I'm listed as bug contact for dosbox, but I can't change imporantance in launchpad. 
<QbixAway> (for a bug)
<persia> hellboy195: Not slow, just very many packages and only so many active members of the Games team. 
<DktrKranz2> persia: ah... this changes everything, then. 
<persia> QbixAway: You'd likely get a better answer in #ubuntu-bugs. 
<QbixAway> persia.  ah thanks.  didn't know it existed
<hellboy195> persia: true.  what do you think.  How long can I wait until it's clear that it's "too late"
<persia> DktrKranz2: Of course, most users have already cleared the broken log entry to get it working again, so the question is how many users would be affected vs. the risk of a stable update. 
<persia> hellboy195: Wednesday night. 
<hellboy195> persia: so.  tomorrow in 1 week? 
<persia> hellboy195: Check the release schedule.   I'm tired, so it may be a week, rather than tomorrow (I'm not sure). 
<persia> After BetaFreeze, new upstreams are almost never allowed, except in very special cases. 
<hellboy195> persia: then tomorrow.  k thx.  and I'll talk to motu sru about fail2ban
<sistpoty|work> hellboy195: 2.4 is already in the games svn, so I guess either there are problems with it, or Fuddl is waiting for it to get sponsored to debian
 * persia notes that a member of motu-sru has been discussing fail2ban :)
<persia> sistpoty|work: Do you know the current status?   I've still heaps of backlog mail. 
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: buh 2 days are very few ...
<hellboy195> persia: uhh.  status? 
<sistpoty|work> persia: of nexuiz?  no, not really
<persia> Seems not to be a testing block.   Maybe just a final check to be sure SVN is 3.7.3 compliant, and needing another weekend of testing :)
<persia> (err, that first "testing" referred to lenny)
<sistpoty|work> oh, and there was just another commit to nexuiz ;)
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: I suppose we haven't got enough people to package it on our own? 
<sistpoty|work> hellboy195: it's already maintained by us? 
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: Isn't it always synced from debian? 
<DktrKranz2> persia: u-u-s is quite populated actually, I'd like to define a strategy to clean it before next deadlines.  Do you think we can discuss it on next meeting=
<sistpoty|work> hellboy195: it's maintained by the debian/ubuntu games team, so yes, it's always synced
<persia> hellboy195: It's maintained by "Debian Games Team", which has almost as many Ubuntu people as Debian people. 
<DktrKranz2> s/=/\?/
<persia> DktrKranz2: Sure (and yes, I'll send out that announcement). 
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: nice to see a debian-ubuntu collaboration :)
<DktrKranz2> persia: ok, then.  I'll add the point to the agende. 
<sistpoty|work> sure :)
<hellboy195> persia: what's the opinion of the motu-sru member about fail2ban? 
<persia> hellboy195: I'm not the person to ask :)  See https://launchpad.net/~motu-sru
<hellboy195> persia: ahh I thought the person talked to you ^^
<jdstrand> emgent: when preparing your lighttpd update, would you also want to fix CVE-2008-0983? 
<jdstrand> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=466663
<ubotwo> Debian bug 466663 in lighttpd "fdevent.c.171: aborted" [Important,Closed]
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: hey, you are in motu-sru ^^
<DktrKranz2> :)
<hellboy195> persia: btw.  When it's the "stop" for merges?  also wednesday? 
<emgent> jdstrand, just a moment i go to see this cve
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: can you please check the progress? 
<jdstrand> emgent: the debian bug I gave has a patch, but I haven't revied any of it.   just came across it
<sistpoty|work> hellboy195: btw, as I wrote in the FFe for nexuiz, you'll need a FFe for the quake c compiler as well, so I guess it might be prudent to get that done first ;)
<jdstrand> reviewed
<persia> hellboy195: Merges can be accepted up until the archive closes, as long as they don't break the freeze rules.   Just be more selective about the merges as we get closer, and make sure the bugs being fixed are more important. 
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: I read that.  I think nexuiz is rather going to hardy-updates than to manage both FFe in the next 2 days
<hellboy195> persia: I'll keep that in mind :)
<sistpoty|work> hellboy195: I guess you mean hardy-backports? 
<persia> hellboy195: For the gutsy cycle, I found that after BetaFreeze, I often would merge backwards, incorporating only some of the Debian fixes into a new Ubuntu version.   After RCFreeze, most of my merges were of that type. 
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: hmm.  what's again the difference? 
<emgent> jdstrand, i saw it now
<hellboy195> persia: :)
<emgent> hardy too seems vulnerable..
 * jdstrand nods
<sistpoty|work> hellboy195: -updates: a program is quite buggy during release, so an update goes in there.  -backports: people who want the latest crack running a stable version
<emgent> now plaese commit this, this night i work with new CVE-2008-0983, if it's ok for you
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: ah.  backports then.  true :)
<jdstrand> emgent: if you want to do it, I recommend updating 200987
<jdstrand> emgent: add this CVE and update the debdiffs
<jdstrand> emgent: that way we don't need to do two uploads
<emgent> ok uhm
<emgent> i work now for it
<emgent> thanks jdstrand for notice
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: but it's a pitty that sid repo can't be used with ubuntu :P
<jdstrand> emgent: if you don't plan on doing it, I'll get to your debdiffs soon
<jdstrand> emgent: cool.   thank you! :) 
<emgent> jdstrand, np i working now to it :P
<\sh> hmmm...can someone explain the role of the "revu coordinator"? 
<persia> \sh: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-February/003362.html
<persia> In summary, watch REVU between archive-open and FeatureFreeze to make sure the process is going smoothly. 
<persia> (and yes, I got the date wrong in that email)
<\sh> well....
<\sh> -ENOTFORME ;)
<\sh> my ubuntu time per week is already counted...:(
<persia> heh
<persia> It's a major timesink, but rather enjoyable. 
<\sh> persia: I think it will be a nice job :) but regarding my duties I have (company, family, ubuntu :)) it's really hard to stay on top with a duty as half-sysstud for revu..:( sponsoring takes time and security support takes time too...so :)
<hellboy195> \sh: time to help me with a FTBFS (merge)? 
<emgent> jdstrand, in hardy it'snt vulnerable
<persia> \sh: Entirely understood.   On the other hand, if you've an opinion about how it ought be done, stay after the MOTU meeting, and help set the right goals. 
 * jdstrand nods
<\sh> hellboy195: fire away
<\sh> persia: I will :)
<\sh> and someone is using my email address for spamming
<\sh> which is bad..really
<emgent> jdstrand, gutsy too. 
<hellboy195> \sh: You are the last uploader so this may help you :)
<\sh> hellboy195: this is no surprise ;)
<hellboy195> \sh: ^^
<\sh> hellboy195: what is it? 
<hellboy195> \sh: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cernlib
<hellboy195> \sh: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/c/cernlib/current/changelog
<\sh> hellboy195: and the new version FTBFS (the debian one)
<hellboy195> \sh: http://pastebin.com/m3610fb1f
<hellboy195> \sh: first problem.  gfortran.  I had to set the build dep to the older version (ubuntu hasn't got the new one) but it's still FTBFS
<\sh> hellboy195: yes...because the version is build against new gfortran...(as it says in the changelog)
<hellboy195> \sh: so this causes the FTBFS and we can't do something? 
 * persia comments that there was some significant fortran transition underway, and not all sources may be compatible to the old fortran before wandering off
<\sh> hellboy195: it looks like...and this is nothing I want to fix for hardy now...the transition will hit us in ibex
<hellboy195> \sh: k thx
<\sh> hellboy195: when we don't have the new fortran, don't think about upgrading the package
<hellboy195> \sh: there is acutally a FFe for a package where gfortran is included but it was set to invalid ...
<hellboy195> persia: I'm wondering that you are still online ;)
<\sh> hellboy195: well, I think it's not reasonable to introduce a new compiler at this time in hardy release
<sistpoty|work> actually, I set it back to new, as it looks like we have parts of the gfortran transition already done...
<hellboy195> \sh: true :)
<hellboy195> sistpoty|work: parts?  dangerous
<\sh> sistpoty|work: hmmm? 
<sistpoty|work> oh, doko: do you know the state of the gfortran transition in universe and should we go for it that late in the cycle? 
<sistpoty|work> bug #199190
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 199190 in libitpp "[FFe] [Sync request] libitpp 4.0.3-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199190
<\sh> sistpoty|work: can you compile a list of packages which are in need of the transition? 
<\sh> sistpoty|work: when we started the transition already (I never heard of it) I think it will be a stopper for Hardy when we don't finish it..I agree here with scotts comment on this bug
<sistpoty|work> \sh: should already be there in the wiki link (see bug report)
<emgent> jdstrand, this issue was fixed some month ago in all ubuntu version
<jdstrand> emgent: really? 
<sistpoty|work> \sh: not too sure, hence I asked doko about it.  If there are deep gfortran problems, it might also be an option to undo the transitioned packages
<emgent> jdstrand, yuo can upload my debdiff
<emgent> jdstrand, yep
<emgent> 90_maxfds_crash_fix.dpatch
<emgent> jdstrand, i go to rename launchpad bug :P
<jdstrand> ok, cool
<emgent> jdstrand, i have to go, see you later :)
<doko> sistpoty|work: I don't care too much about it; you can try, at least it should build with gfortran, maybe you have problems on the port architectures
<\sh> ok..time to go home for now :)
<\sh> cu later
<jdstrand> emgent: ok bye!  thanks for looking into that
<jussi01> hmmm, I have export DEBFULLNAME='Jussi Schultink' and the DEBEMAIL one in my .bashrc, just wondering what the variable is to add the comment that goes in the middle of the changelog entry is? -  in my case (jussi01)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK, Hobbsee, TheMuso: what are your feelings towards getting the gfortran transition done and waiving a general FFe for it? ( bug #199190)
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 199190 in libitpp "[FFe] [Sync request] libitpp 4.0.3-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199190
<stdin> jussi01: comment?  you mean so it has " -- Jussi Schultink (jussi01) <your-email> (date)" ? 
<ScottK2> sistpoty|work: Better to try and finish since it's started than give up and leave it half done. 
<ScottK2> \sh_away: What testing of your ffmpeg change have you done? 
<jussi01> stdin: correct
<stdin> jussi01: can't you just set DEBFULLNAME="Jussi Schultink (jussi01)", I'm pretty sure it will look at the email address for what key to use for signing
<jussi01> stdin: no, it needs to be exactly correct for signing.  Ill try that though :)
<ScottK2> stdin: Actually it won't.   It looks at the comment too.   He'd need to use -k to sign, but with that it should work fine
<ScottK2> jussi01: Just feed it your keyid with -k and then it'll work with the expanded comment
<stdin> I think the way others do it is by putting the comment in the key when creating it
<jussi01> stdin: yeah, the comment is in the key, i just want it to come when I use things like: dch -i
<stdin> I've never bothered using the comment part, so I can't really say
<jussi01> hmmm, seems to have worked just expanding the realname feild, Id be curious to know if there is a correct feild for it though
<jussi01> and I cant spell field :P
<jdstrand> Fujitsu: fyi-- merged your ubuntu-cve-tracker updates
<jdstrand> Fujitsu: thanks! 
<RainCT> jussi01: the comment should be in DEBFULLNAME
<RainCT> or at least that's how I've always done it
<sistpoty|work> blueyed: for etckeeper, did you already contact the debian maintainer with your patch for bzr support? 
<jussi01> RainCT: ok then :)
<blueyed> sistpoty|work: it's not my patch, but I'll see what submittodebian can do about it (it's not reported on bts yet)
<sistpoty|work> blueyed: thanks
 * sistpoty|work heads home now
<sistpoty|work> cya
<hellboy195> RainCT: you remember libnxml? 
<RainCT> hellboy195: yes
<hellboy195> RainCT: 2 days ago a new upstream version arrived in sid ^^
<RainCT> lol
<hellboy195> RainCT: funny :) btw.  noticed that only the i386 and lpia builds of ldtp were sucessful? 
<RainCT> ldtp? 
<RainCT> ah yes
<RainCT> hellboy195: I see.. dependency problems
<hellboy195> RainCT: our fault or because something else? 
<tsmithe> slomo, you here?  would you be prepared to sponsor a (pretty much no-change) upload of my mscore package to debian
<tsmithe> ? 
<tsmithe> [since fluid-soundfont is now in]
<erle-> when do you stop taking packages of debian unstable for ubuntu hardy? 
<hellboy195> erle-: we never stop?  but the big wave stopped since we are now in FF and on wednesday Beta freeze starts
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: buona sera :)
<DktrKranz> :)
<hellboy195> ^^
<erle-> but i think you will not get gcc 4.3 to the repos
<hellboy195> erle-: no we won't
<protonchris> Anybody willing to take a look at bug 190744 and potentially sponsor an upload? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 190744 in libgdamm3.0 "Request: Upgrade libgdamm3.0 to upstream version 2.9.81" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190744
<jdstrand> emgent: uploaded lighttpd for #200987
<jdstrand> bug #200987
<emgent> jdstrand, thanks :P
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200987 in lighttpd "CVE-2008-1270 when mod_userdir is loaded but not configured, the server's whole disk becomes remotely readable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200987
<emgent> when you have time see other in progress ehehe :P
<jdstrand> emgent: re bug #195949
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 195949 in vlc "VLC Arbitrary memory overwrite in the MP4 demuxer" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195949
<jdstrand> emgent: is there an edgy debdiff available? 
<emgent> uhm not now
<jdstrand> if not, I'll review what's there and upload
<emgent> i will work on this, just a moment
<jdstrand> emgent: ok, np
<tsmithe> is it worth filing a sync request for fluid-soundfont, which whilst being new in debian today with a couple of changes (timidity config files supplies), is a very large package? 
<Mez> tsmithe, wouldnt it be auto-synced? 
<tsmithe> it will be next cycle, yeah, so that's why i'm thinking it ain't worth the bother
<Mez> or are the ubuntu changesok to wipe/
<Mez> depends on what the changes are
<tsmithe> wiping is fine :)
<tsmithe> (there are no ubuntu changes; the ubuntu upload was first)
<emgent> jdstrand, building test..
<emgent> sorry for idle..
<jdstrand> hey, thanks for doing it! :) 
<emgent> np :P
<blueyed> emgent: bug status "committed" is not right: it has not been uploaded already, has it? 
<emgent> blueyed, about what ? 
<blueyed> emgent: 200987
<emgent> bug #200987
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200987 in lighttpd "CVE-2008-1270 when mod_userdir is loaded but not configured, the server's whole disk becomes remotely readable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200987
<emgent> blueyed, for hardy committed by \sh
<emgent> status it's ture. 
<emgent> jdstrand, change in fix committed because he send it to -security
<emgent> blueyed, don't warry, be happy :P
<jdstrand> emgent: what are you erferring to? 
<emgent> jdstrand, bug #200987 status. 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200987 in lighttpd "CVE-2008-1270 when mod_userdir is loaded but not configured, the server's whole disk becomes remotely readable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200987
<blueyed> emgent: ok, I'm happy.. but I'm still not sure if it's right.. but it does not matter really, unless it would get forgotten.. ;)
 * jdstrand wonders emgent is talking about a change that jdstrand made as if jdstrand didn't know about it...
<jdstrand> wonders why
<emgent> blueyed, in bug 200987 jdstrand was change status to fix committed
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200987 in lighttpd "CVE-2008-1270 when mod_userdir is loaded but not configured, the server's whole disk becomes remotely readable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200987
<emgent> blueyed, see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd/+bug/200987/+activity
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200987 in lighttpd "CVE-2008-1270 when mod_userdir is loaded but not configured, the server's whole disk becomes remotely readable" [Medium,Fix committed]
<emgent> ubotwo, silent!  :P
<blueyed> jdstrand: so I guess you have uploaded them, right?  Sorry for the confusion..
 * jdstrand finally understands the context
<jdstrand> blueyed: yep
<emgent> heeheh :)
<jdstrand> blueyed: they are building on dak
<blueyed> Great, thank you both.. :)
 * blueyed has just checked his lighty conf..
<emgent> jdstrand, done, debdiff attached
<jharr> So I have ircd-hybrid installed, I did some source mods to it (#define config variable), and rebuilt it.  Now, 'aptitude dist-upgrade' wants to upgrade my package to its package (of the same version). 
<jdstrand> emgent: ok thanks
<emgent> jdstrand, builted fine in my box
<emgent> np
<jharr> What's the propper way to get that to stop. 
<emgent> now i have to go, sorry :P
<emgent> see you later
<emgent> thanks for all jdstrand
<emgent> bye
<jdstrand> have a good rest of the day! 
<jdstrand> emgent: ^^
<Fujitsu> jdstrand: Thanks.  I'll hopefully be a little more active security-wise from now on. 
<jdstrand> Fujitsu: thanks for what you've been doing :)
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: I hear there's a new python-scipy release tomorrow....
<tritium> ScottK2: really? 
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: I was half-way through typing the dput command to make it installable again. 
<tritium> scipy is what got me interested in python in the first place (along with matplotlib)
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: I don't know that I would stop uploading something that's ready because who knows
<ScottK2> Fujitsu and tritium: It was mentioned in a Debian bug.   Let me see if I can find it
<tritium> ScottK2: only if it's convenient for you
<ScottK2> I'm glad I looked.   It was numpy anyway. 
<tritium> Ah. 
<ScottK2> Fujitsu and tritium: New numpy release mentioned in Debian Bug #470293
<ubotwo> Debian bug 470293 in python-numpy "python-numpy: bug in numpy.histogram" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/470293
<tritium> Thanks, ScottK2
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: Thanks, will look at it. 
<neskiem> is anyone free to take a look at a package on revu? 
<tsmithe> which, and does it have a feature freeze exception? ( i don't have time to review anything, however, nor am i a motu)
<neskiem> ttf-lg-aboriginal it's a new package so i guess it wouldn't
<ScottK2> tsmithe: If he asked me for an FFe, I'd ask him if it's been reviewed/advocated. 
<ScottK2> neskiem: We are close to release, so not taking new packages unless it's particularly urgent. 
<ScottK2> neskiem: There are fonts teams in Debian I think that might sponsor your package there.   If they do it'll get in the next Ubuntu automatically. 
<neskiem> ScottK2: thanks for the information i've been in contact with the font people in Debian
<ScottK2> I'd concentrate on that then. 
<ScottK2> Come see us mid-may if you haven't gotten into Debian by then. 
<neskiem> ScottK2: thanks.  later. 
<KasimirGabert> I am trying to upload a new package to REVU, but nothing is showing up
<KasimirGabert> would somebody be able to help me? 
<KasimirGabert> would somebody be able to help me? 
<RainCT> is someone with an amd64 around? 
<KasimirGabert> yes
<KasimirGabert> however, just a regular user
<KasimirGabert> :)
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: can you try that and tell me what it says please?     python -c "import os; print os.uname()[4]"
<KasimirGabert> x86_64
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: and   python -c "import platform; print platform.machine()"   =
<KasimirGabert> the same
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<KasimirGabert> np
<blueyed> Any plans to add "grab-merge.sh" to ubuntu-dev-tools, so that it can get fixed? 
<jdong> RainCT: platform.machine() is cross-platform
<RainCT> jdong: do you know how I can get just i386/amd64/powerpc/etc? 
<jdong> RainCT: what was wrong with platform.machine()? 
<jdong> that returns x86_64 right? 
 * RainCT is trying to drop all dependencies on external stuff on pbuilder-dist (new python version), and dpkg-architecture is the only one remaining
<RainCT> jdong: yes
<hellboy195> RainCT: because of ldtp? 
<jdong> well then just replace x86_64 with amd64
<jdong> RainCT: uname probably is bettter
<RainCT> jdong: is amd64 always (and only) = x86_64? 
<jdong> RainCT: yes
<KasimirGabert> would somebody be able to help me with uploading to REVU?  it does not seem to work
<jdong> RainCT: there's apparently an entire article dedicated to the trademarking/nomenclature but they are interchangeable terms
<RainCT> oh
<jdong> RainCT: uname -m is probably a better idea too
<RainCT> jdong: and for i386? 
<KasimirGabert> uname -m returns x86_64 as well
<jdong> RainCT: you'll get i386, i586, or i686
<RainCT> allright then, thanks! 
<jdong> sure :)
<ScottK2> blueyed: We can't add it until after MoM and DaD are merged as currently there are two grab-merge.sh
<RainCT> jdong: is os.uname[4] the host architecture? 
<RainCT> (like dpkg-architecture which has host architecture and build architecture)
 * RainCT really hopes so as using this the script is 4 times faster than with dpkg-architecture
<jdong> RainCT: yeah this would be host architecture
<RainCT> jdong: great.  thanks
<jdong> RainCT: dpkg-architecture uses gcc -dumpmachine
<jdong> /usr/bin/dpkg-architecture  0.07s user 0.01s system 97% cpu 0.082 total
<jdong> and you're sure that is going to be a speedup? 
<RainCT> jdong: I get "real 0m0.344s, user 0m0.156s, sys 0m0.028s" here
<jdong> hmm
<RainCT> and for pbuilder-dist right now "real 0m0.243s, user 0m0.040s, sys 0m0.028s"
<RainCT> * real 0m0.130s
<RainCT> 240 ms when the .pyc is outdated
<RainCT> (will get a bit slower as there's still some stuff missing, but in any case it'll be a lot faster than before :))
<awen_> A freeze exception for a new package... is it correctly understood, that I should have it reviewed in REVU before having a chance? 
<RainCT> awen_: no, first get the Freeze Exception
<awen_> RainCT: so subscribe "motu-release" to the bug-report with the files attached (or a link to the package in motu)? 
<RainCT> awen_: yes (with link to the package in REVU).  remember that the bug description has to contain a rationale about why you think it's important to get it in now
<ScottK2> RainCT: Actually he's right
<ScottK2> awen_ needs a reviewed package for an FFe. 
<RainCT> oh
<RainCT> that a bit ironic then.. I though most MOTU's only review new packages if they have a FFe
<RainCT> or did I understand that wrong? 
<ScottK2> It can be kind of tough at this point. 
<awen_> ScottK2: thanks for clearing that up... it's really not written that clearly anywhere (that I could find)
<Adri2000> blueyed: get grab-merge.sh fixed?  how is it broken? 
<ScottK2> awen_: It's pretty unlikely to get accepted at this stage unless there's a real crisis
<awen_> ScottK2: okay... couldn't really be called a crisis; it's a small package providing a lot of extra import/export formats for inkscape
<RainCT> ScottK2: btw, this doesn't need a FFe, or?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5597/plain/
<ScottK2> RainCT: Am I going to regret it if I say no? 
<RainCT> ScottK2: heh I hope not :)
<awen_> bug 200730 / http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=uniconvertor ... if a motu is around, that has some spare time; should be pretty straight forward
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200730 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] UniConvertor: universal vector graphics translator (needed by Inkscape for Corel Draw formats support)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200730
<ScottK2> awen_: I'd suggest that should wait for the next cycle. 
<ScottK2> OTOH, if you can find two motu willing to advocate, then I'd give it a look
<ScottK2> RainCT: As long as you're tracking bug reports and will make sure it's fixed up before release, I'll say no. 
<RainCT> awen_: changelog has no bug number
<awen_> ScottK2: suspected that my chances wasn't that good...
<RainCT> add (LP: #xxxx) at the end of the "initial release" line
<RainCT> awen_: why is architecture any if it's a python package? 
<RainCT> ah it has c stuff
<awen_> RainCT: too slow with my answer :)
<awen_> RainCT: thanks for reminding me about the LP bug number
<RainCT> awen_: differentiate in debian/copyright about which files are under the GPL and which under LGPL
<blueyed> Adri2000: grab-merge.sh fails quite miserable when there's nothing to merge.  well, only cosmetical, but still. 
<RainCT> awen_: and I'm not sure if it applies (only had a fast look), but the package doesn't follow the python policy
<ScottK2> Wiping the merge dir clean is suboptimal too I think
<awen_> RainCT: it doesn't say in the package which are LGPL and which are GPL... what then? 
<RainCT> awen_: oh.  and files have no header with the copyright info? 
<awen_> RainCT: they have individual copyright notices... but they don't state LGPL/GPL
<RainCT> :/
<awen_> RainCT: now i see... seems to be hidden in some extra readme files deep in the source tree
<awen_> RainCT: i'll have a look at the copyright then
<awen_> RainCT: what in particular did strike you regarding the python policy? 
<RainCT> awen_: that the package isn't using pycentral/pysupport to byte-compile
<awen_> RainCT: it has it's own internal build-script (written in python) which the rules-file uses... this should be a sane approach? 
<RainCT> awen_: what does the script do?  create .pyc files (if so were are those installed)? 
<awen_> RainCT: exactly... they are installed in a sub-directory, and the rules-file then uses dh_install to install those files
<RainCT> awen_: I don't think the policy is happy with this, pyc's should rather be handled by pysupport or pycentral
<awen_> RainCT: you might be right, I'll change that then... any preference between python-support/pycentral? 
 * RainCT doesn't mind
<awen_> RainCT: and there is no general ubuntu-preference? 
<RainCT> not that I know about
<RainCT> ScottK2 might know better though
<james_w> awen_: pycentral was written by someone involved in ubuntu development, but there are a huge number of packages using each, so it doesn't really matter. 
<awen_> james_w: thanks... I'll flip a coin then :)
<james_w> awen_: as good a method as any in my opinion. 
<awen_> RainCT: thanks for the feedback... sorted the copyright issues out also
<RainCT> awen_: great!  you're welcome :)
<mok0> Funny, I am also working with a python package at the moment.  However, the build doesn't create .pyc files.  I thought py-central was supposed to do that
<soren> mok0: At install time.  Not build time. 
<mok0> It's not being done
<soren> mok0: Sure? 
<mok0> soren: yep
<mok0> There's nothing in the installer script doing it
<soren> No call to pycentral? 
<soren> Er..
<soren> "installer script2? 
<mok0> soren: maintainer script, sorry
<mok0> postinst
<soren> No call to pycentral in postinst? 
<mok0> soren: using cdbs
<soren> mok0: Doesn't matter. 
<soren> In the resulting postinst, is there no call to pycentral? 
<mok0> soren: using: DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pycentral
<soren> mok0: When cdbs and debhelper is done fiddling with your postinst, does it contain a call to pycentral? 
<mok0> soren: you mean when building the package? 
<mok0> postinst has a section added by py_central
<soren> Good. 
<essial> afternoon/morning everyone
<soren> And what's the problem, exactly? 
<soren> The lack of .pyc files in the .deb? 
<mok0> soren: after installation no .pyc files anywhere
<mok0> soren: and no .pyc files in .deb
<soren> mok0: Can I see the package? 
<soren> There's not supposed to be any .pyc in the .deb. 
<mok0> soren: hang on, I'll put it somewhere
<soren> They're generated during postinst by pycentral. 
<essial> one of you wouldn't happen to know what "Files in variable 'ASSEMBLY_CSFILES' contain variables which cannot be parsed without path to the configure.in being set" in MONO is caused by would you? 
<mok0> soren: http://www.bioxray.au.dk/~mok/udist_0.5-0ubuntu1.dsc
<soren> mok0: Er... That looks suspicously as a python-support package..
<mok0> soren: what do you mean? 
<anon32> I see a lot of packages in need of maintenance and I was wondering if I being a MOTU packager requires me to know how to write code? 
<soren> mok0: The resulting .deb contains python-support paths..
<soren> mok0: DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport
<protonchris> Anybody willing to take a look at bug 190744 and potentially sponsor an upload? 
<mok0> soren: hm.  I tried both python-support and python-central
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 190744 in libgdamm3.0 "Request: Upgrade libgdamm3.0 to upstream version 2.9.81" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190744
<soren> mok0: Are you sure about that url? :) 
<ScottK2> anon32: It helps, but it's not required
<soren> mok0: That one seems to work. 
<soren> mok0: What's the problem with it? 
<soren> mok0: I see .pyc files in the expected places just fine. 
<mok0> soren: weird.  what's your system? 
<anon32> ScottK2, I see.  And how do I join?  heh...
<soren> mok0: Where are you looking for the .pyc files? 
<soren> mok0: I'm runing up-to-date hardy (like a real man)
<mok0> soren: ok, me too
<soren> :)
<mok0> soren: I was looking in pysupport
<mok0> soren: I guess the bottom line is I don't really understand how the installation works
<soren> mok0: I'm looking fir the exact path you're looking at..
<soren> mok0: Ok.  Here's how it works for python-support:
<mok0> soren: sorry, this is where I look: /usr/share/pyshared/udist/
<soren> THat's not going to work. 
<soren> For python-support here's the magic:
<james_w> anon32: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted is a good place to start from. 
<mok0> soren: I looked where dpkg -L udist told me
<soren> mok0: Your .py files are installed into /usr/share/python-support/$module/
<soren> mok0: The postinst calls update-python-modules $module
<mok0> I might be out of sync with the latest version of the package
<soren> mok0: update-python-modules looks as which versions of python you have installed, compiles the .py files for that, and shoves them into /var/lib/python-support/python$pyversion/$module
<soren> mok0: ...along with symlinks to the .py files. 
<mok0> soren: so, it works for you? 
<soren> mok0: Yes. 
<mok0> hmm. 
<soren> mok0: The one you sent me a link to is a python-support using package. 
<soren> ...which works. 
<mok0> soren: ok, let me check again
<soren> Hang on, it's easier if I pastebin it..
<soren> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59301/
<mok0> soren: ok, in my local version I was using pycentral
<soren> mok0: I prefer pycentral, so let's get that working :)
<mok0> soren: I will change back to pysupport
<soren> mok0: Let's see it. 
<mok0> soren: ok, hang on
<mok0> soren: done.  Same url
<soren> mok0: That works fine, too? 
<awen_> when using pycentral the debian rules shouldn't compile .pyc-files right? 
<soren> awen_: Right. 
<mok0> soren: where are the .pyc files? 
<soren> (same with python-support)
<soren> mok0: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/udist/
<soren> mok0: Actually, /usr/lib/python*/site-packages/udist/
<mok0> soren: right
<mok0> soren: I was execting them to be in /usr/share/pyshared/udist
<mok0> soren: well, everything is dandy, then
<soren> mok0: Seems to be :)
<mok0> soren: 1000 tak! 
<mok0> :)
<soren> mok0: I like helping you.  All I need to tell you is that it's already working. :) 
<mok0> soren: does udist work? :-) 
<soren> Dunno.  What is it? 
<soren> Oh, you should name it python-udist, by the way. 
<soren> Just the binary package. 
<mok0> soren: a small application that writes stuff about the distro
<mok0> soren: a la uname
<soren> Oh, I see. 
<mok0> soren: works on redhat family of distros too
<soren> mok0: Yep, seems to be working. 
<mok0> soren: cool
<soren> udist.distro. Distro().__str__() says Ubuntu a lot, so I'm guessing it's doing the right thing :)
<mok0> soren: heh
<awen_> soren: and then the package should of course be "arch: any"? 
<soren> all
<soren> arch: all
<awen_> of course all ... typo in the question, hehe
<soren> arch: all means that the same binary is usable on all architectures.  arch: any means that a binary can be built for any archicture. 
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-12
<soren> It is a bit confusing. :) 
<ScottK2> Debian arch: all ~= RPM noarch. 
<mok0> Yeah, I really like that noarch :-P
<awen_> soren: just need to learn it :)
<mok0> runs on no arch's
<jdong> mok0: everything runs on noarch :D
<mok0> jdong: ha! 
<zul> soren: go to bed...sheesh
<soren> zul: I don't wanna! 
<soren> I'm busy taking over the world. 
<zul> soren: its like someone is paying you to stay up
<awen_> soren: thanks for all the help... now I just have to fix the two lintian errors :)
<soren> zul: You'd think so, wouldn't you :)
<zul> soren: how late is it there?  1ish? 
<awen_> zul: correct :P
<soren> zul: Something like that. 
<Hobbsee> yay, random subscriptions to bug.s
 * Hobbsee doesn't remember why something changed in edgy. 
<mok0> Good morning, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> morning mok0
 * mok0 should probably go to sleep soon...
<TheMuso> 23/c
<mok0> breaking: Obama wins Mississippi
 * awen_ just realized that the default wallpaper has changed... that's why it looked different
<Hobbsee> ugh.   us politics
<TheMuso> Australian politics is bad enough. 
<Hobbsee> indeed. 
<awen_> Anyone wants to have a look at a new package?  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=uniconvertor ... all suggestions+comments from RainCT has been incorporated
<protonchris> Hobbsee: Would you be will to look at bug 200292 ? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200292 in libgda3 "Sync libgda3_3.0.2-2 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200292
<awen_> getting much to late... goodnight people
<soren> YEah, same here. 
<soren> (Unsurprisingly, as we're in the same $TZ)
<awen_> he :)
<Hobbsee> someone should update awn. 
<RAOF> By 'update' you mean FFe? 
<RAOF> And grab 0.2.6, or whatever the release is? 
<Hobbsee> yeah, looks like it
<RAOF> Hobbsee: And probably introduce a plugins package? ;) 
<Hobbsee> yeah
<RAOF> I suppose so. 
<RAOF> I might actually _use_ an updated awn. 
<bddebian> Heya
<protonchris> Hey
<bddebian> Hello protonchris
<emgent> heya gang! 
<bddebian> Heh, hi emgent
<protonchris> bddebian: Are you up for taking a look at a package that needs sponsoring (motu-release has already approved)? 
<bddebian> protonchris: What package? 
<protonchris> bug 190744
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 190744 in libgdamm3.0 "Request: Upgrade libgdamm3.0 to upstream version 2.9.81" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190744
<bddebian> protonchris: I'm lazy, do you have a source package posted somewhere? 
<protonchris> bddebian: just a sec
<protonchris> bddebian: I can post the files to my server.   Will that work? 
<bddebian> Sure
<protonchris> bddebian: http://protonlab.net/~chris/libgdamm3.0/
<bddebian> And why is it libgdamm3.0-2.9.88? 
<protonchris> Should be libgdamm3.0-2.9.82
<bddebian> Yeah, sorry, but why 3.0 with 2.9.82? 
<protonchris> I am not sure why they decided to call it 3.0 when it was first packaged.   I assumed that upstream was leading up to a 3.0 release. 
<RAOF> Presumably that's the soname, right? 
<bddebian> Sure, just looks odd :)
<protonchris> That package produces a libgdamm3.0-9 binary package.   The soname is 9. 
<bddebian> Uhm, that's even worse :)
<bddebian> Do we care that the soname doesn't match the package name? 
<tritium> Hey there, bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hi tritium
<protonchris> Well, we also have a libgdamm1.3 in the archive with a soname of 8 :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> protonchris: OK, uploaded, it's all yours now! :) 
<protonchris> Thanks. 
<protonchris> bddebian: Will the bug close itself since I put the bug number in the changelog? 
<bddebian> It's supposed to
<protonchris> Cool, thanks again. 
<TheMuso> 5~/c
<neh> anybody know if mythtv .21 will make it into hardy? 
<RAOF> neh: It already has. 
<neh> RAOF: ah, I must have looked in the wrong place before, now I see it.  thanks. 
 * Hobbsee wonders why our eclipse version is so old
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Because everyone hates java. 
<RAOF> It's like the stillborn progeny of gods too dark to comprehend, animated by sheer bloodymindedness. 
<Hobbsee> RAOF: awww
<RAOF> Or, alternatively, just because no MOTU actually _uses_ Eclipse. 
 * RAOF 's Java developing friend is particularly impressed with the way Eclipse can happily consume > 3Gb of memory. 
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> 'Morning dholbach! 
<RAOF> Now, let there be a chicken/pasta/pesto bake thing prepared! 
<dholbach> hi RAOF
<RAOF> Hobbsee: You use Gnome-Do, right?   How would you feel in principle about a FFe for it?   I'd need to actually cut a release of it, but trunk has some significantly cool new features. 
<Hobbsee> RAOF: what features? 
<RAOF> Hobbsee: The inteface is a little shinier, but the really killer feature is that it now learns what you use most, and prioritises hits by that. 
<Hobbsee> RAOF: excellent.   can we get some of the plugins too? 
<tonyyarusso> oooh, I like that. 
<RAOF> Also, on the plugins front, there's an awesome Launchpad plugin, and better error catching in Do. 
<RAOF> So it should be harder for plugins to bring down Do :)
<RAOF> Hobbsee: There's _already_ a gnome-do-plugins package, right? 
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yummy.   i din't ahve that. 
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah, i want to see the LP one in there too
<RAOF> Right.   So, were I to cut a release we'd pick up the freshly merged LP plugin, and a couple of other less awesome ones. 
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Incidentally, Do is an awesome Rhythmbox interface :)
<RAOF> Were you using Do without the plugins?   That'd be quite a lot less awesome. 
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> anyway, yes, i'd approve the uvfe for it
<Hobbsee> the mroe plugins it has, the more usfeul it is
 * tonyyarusso thinks you should include zelut's apt-get plugin
<RAOF> Right.   So, I'll try and get my ducks in a line so that I can cut a release & package on the weekend. 
<RAOF> Maybe.   It's not soumething that *I* use :)
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: ^^^
 * RAOF goes back to roasting capsicum
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: nah, but it looks nifty
<RAOF> Man I need a parsley plant...
<RAOF> Dear aptitude: _FASTER_!   I want to see if I can unbreak X :)
<\sh> moins
<DaveMorris> who do I need to poke to get a patch I provided to a bug built and released? 
<DktrKranz2> DaveMorris: could you please indicate which bug you are referring to? 
<DaveMorris> Bug #195433
<DktrKranz2> bug 195433
<DaveMorris> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opensg/+bug/195433
<DaveMorris> since ubot seems to be broken
<DktrKranz2> DaveMorris: It was me who commented on it. 
<DktrKranz2> it's uncommon to depends on -dev packages, though. 
<DktrKranz2> does opensg require files in these -dev packages? 
<DaveMorris> opensg-dev needs to fulfil against those since thats whats returned by osg-config (and pkg-config since I based it on the osg-config results)
<DaveMorris> so atm when you try and link against opensg it fails as it can't find the libs to link against
<DktrKranz2> does it happens at build time? 
<DaveMorris> yes (not build time for opensg, but build time for programs linking against opensg)
<DaveMorris> I missed them off when I built the package as I didn't try linking against it in a clean environment (have now learnt :) )
<YokoZar> I have a package (zsnes) that recently started building on amd64.   The last upload added amd64 arch to the control file, and it builds fine if I use dpkg-buildpackage.   However, looking it up on launchpad, the build daemon isn't even trying to build it on amd64, and gnome-app-install has it unclickable still
<YokoZar> Do we have to manually tell the buildd to attempt amd64 ? 
<DktrKranz2> DaveMorris: ah... have you some examples? 
<DaveMorris> yeah, give us a sec
<DktrKranz2> (brb)
<DaveMorris> DktrKranz2:  http://foss.it.brighton.ac.uk/epoch/opensg-example.tar.gz
<DaveMorris> To build create a symbolic link in the trunk dir called OpenSG pointing to the trunk dir (ln -s .  OpenSG), then use make (there are targets to install make the test if you wanted, you need to run the test though).   It depends on the package libopensg-core-dev
<RAOF> YokoZar: No, AFAIK you shouldn't have to explicitly ask the buildd to build it (or, rather, having amd64 in the arch field *is* explicitly asking for it). 
<YokoZar> RAOF: ok then...so what do I do here? 
<YokoZar> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zsnes/1.510-2ubuntu1  <-- note it doesn't even try
<DktrKranz2> DaveMorris: ok.  I'll have a look this evening then.  Thanks. 
 * RAOF has a look
<DaveMorris> thanks
<RAOF> YokoZar: I can't see anything obvious, and I don't really have time for a more detailed poke. 
<YokoZar> thanks RAOF.   Do you happen to know who I should bother? 
<RAOF> Probably anyone on #ubuntu-devel would work :)
<\sh> YokoZar: ask pitti ;)
<awen_> RainCT: thanks for the help yesterday... i've changed it to use pycentral, and uploaded it again, if you have time for a look: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=uniconvertor
<\sh> oh wow..I found my window manager for working really fast
<\sh> wmii rulez
 * pochu waves good morning
<\sh> hey pochu
<pochu> hey hey \sh
<huats> ScottK hey
<huats> the other day you were asking to let you know if some sponsoring was needed for the python-xml bug : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tinyerp-server/+bug/199487
<huats> :)
<Hobbsee> RainCT: how'd you break X? 
<\sh> oh I'm really in love with wmii
<zul> Hobbsee: with a hammer or other blunt objects or even a pointy stick
<Hobbsee> zul: didn't work
<zul> Hobbsee: bigger hammer? 
<Hobbsee> yeah.   purged more
<Hobbsee> kittens died. 
<ScottK> nxvl: Would you please merge your change in Bug #179790 with the debdiff in Bug #199487, give it a test, and let me know.   I'll sponsor it. 
<RainCT> hey
<RainCT> awen_: no problem :)
<RainCT> Hobbsee: break X? 
<Hobbsee> somoene was trying to fix it
<Hobbsee> did my nick completion break? 
<RainCT> Hobbsee: guessed that :)
<Hobbsee> i think it was RAOF
<Iulian> Hey
<zul> dholbach: ping
<ScottK2> pochu: Weren't you going to take care of getting spe updated? 
<speakman> hi, motu ;)
<speakman> A new version of "most" is released since nov 2007 and now it finally support vt100 colors! 
<\sh> wtf is "most"? 
<speakman> Does ubuntu have any maintainer of that package, or does it come straight from Debian? 
<speakman> \sh: How about apt-cache show most ? 
<persia> speakman: Unfortunate timing.   We're nearly to BetaFreeze for hardy, although it sounds like a welcome improvement for intrepid. 
<\sh> speakman: just tell me what it is...
<speakman> \sh: a pager.  A great one.  The best. :) 
<speakman> (try export PAGER=most and "man printf" e.g.)
<\sh> speakman: you mean like "less" or "more"
<speakman> env PAGER=most man printf
<speakman> \sh: yes, but alot better
<speakman> (why not make it default in ubuntu btw?) 
<persia> speakman: It's imported from Debian, although MOTU coordinates the state in Ubuntu, and so is the Maintainer in many senses. 
<speakman> persia: ok, thanks for explaining.  Is it possible to make it in interpid? 
<speakman> sorry, hardy
<\sh> speakman: well gnu less or more are mostly standards in unix derivatives ! = linux :)
<speakman> \sh: give it a try.  Install it, run "env PAGER=most man printf", an uninstall it if it wasn't as expected. ;) 
<persia> speakman: Yes, but with significant difficulty, and only if it is really important.   At this point, most developers are focused on bugfixing and making sure the distribution is in a state for release, so updates don't get very much attention. 
<speakman> persia: I see.  One pretty big thing is that you can finally pipe bzr diff output (and as long as bzr doesn't color the diff it self, pipe it through "colordiff") through it! 
<speakman> else you're stuck with less (or even more, cant remember)
<pochu> ScottK2: AFAIR Stani was going to release 0.8.4e so we can get rid of the symlinks and of our own setup.py.  But I won't be able to upload it until next week anyway
<pochu> ScottK2: I'm not even sure whether I could make it for beta, so if you can do it that'd be nice
<persia> speakman: That sounds great, but I'm not sure it competes with the > 219 packages that currently cannot be installed for developer attention. 
<pochu> s/I could/I'll be able to/
<speakman> persia: guess you're right... too bad I didn't see it earlier.  Released nov 2007. 
<ScottK2> pochu: OK. 
<ScottK2> pochu: I thought it was d that did that? 
<persia> speakman: Yes, too bad indeed.   In December or January would have been a good time for the sync.   In any case, it ought be eligible for backports in May, so it won't be too long post-hardy to wait. 
<speakman> persia: actually, it isn't even in debian yet.  Just msgd "mako" about it
<speakman> ehm... is there any good tutorial (or gui) how to make my own deb package? 
<pochu> ScottK2: sorry, who did what? 
<persia> ! packaging
<speakman> ! packaging
<speakman> ? 
<broonie> Normally there's a bot that would have given you a canned answer to your question in response to that command. 
<persia> Err.   That should have provided a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<persia> (not that it is especially good, but it's a place to start reading)
<speakman> oh, thanks alot.  I'll start there. :) 
<speakman> (and thanks for generally being polite and open-minded!) 
<ScottK2> pochu: I thought it was 0.8.4d that had the changes so the symlinks could be gotten rid of. 
<ScottK2> \sh: Did you see my response to your ffmpeg ping? 
<\sh> ScottK2: nope
 * \sh is busy doing stress tests and gnuplotting :(
<pochu> ScottK2: according to Stani's mail it's fixed upstream, and he said he will release it as 0.8.4e if everything worked fine
<\sh> ScottK2: what was it? :) 
<ScottK2> \sh: I was asking what testing you'd done on this. 
<ScottK2> pochu: Would you please get in touch with him then. 
<\sh> ScottK2: build tests works...and functional: I used it here to move the metadata from several of our h.264 FLVs to the correct position to stream it via mod_flv_streaming/lighty
<\sh> here == company :)
<ScottK2> \sh: OK.   2nd question: If siretart likes it, how come he didn't upload it? 
<\sh> ScottK2: because he just got the bug report yesterday...and he is busy as I understood...
<ScottK2> \sh: This is a part of the system I know little about, so I'm a bit nervous about uploading it. 
<siretart> ScottK2: sorry, I was terribly busy yesterday, I looked at the debdiff, it looks okay to me
<ScottK2> siretart: Understand. 
<siretart> but I didn't testbuilt it yet.  however I'm confident with that upload. ( I assume we're talking about the missing tool, right?) 
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<ScottK2> \sh and siretart: OK.   I'll test build and upload if it builds
<\sh> ScottK2: thx a lolt
<\sh> s/lolt/lot/
<dholbach> zul: pong
<zul> dholbach: rpm sponsor request why did that get thrown to me? 
<dholbach> zul: I had to pick somebody :)
<zul> dholbach: gee thanks ;)
<siretart> ScottK2: thanks! 
<ScottK2> \sh and siretart: Uploaded. 
<ScottK2> \sh: Next time please put the bug in the changelog (I added it). 
<pochu> ScottK2: he said he was going to be offline for a few days as he was going to be an uncle.  He'll likely release it once he's back
<\sh> ScottK2: thx...yeah I forgot that, damn...
<bobbo> zul; ping
<zul> bobbo: pong
<bobbo> zul im the guy working on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rpm/+bug/73355
<zul> bobbo: hello
<bobbo> zul; should i bump the debian standards to 3.7.3 from 3.7.2? 
<zul> yes
<bobbo> zul; thanks
<hellboy195> \sh: may I disturb you again? 
<\sh> hellboy195: fire away...if I don't have time, you won't get an answer in time ;)
<hellboy195> \sh: ^^. I'm doing the merge of electricsheep now.  And the ubuntu changelog says: Merge debian/rules to keep our kscreensaver changes. 
<hellboy195>  .  But if you look at the patch that DaD created ,.. Was that terrible documentated?  Btw you are again the last uploader ^^
<hellboy195> \sh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5612/
<hellboy195> \sh: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/electricsheep
<bobbo> How do you get debdiff/debuild -S to include new files? 
<\sh> hellboy195: hmm..i don't use dad but mom...and then I'm normally comparing diff.gz ;)
<smarter> hi
<hellboy195> \sh: ^^ so DaD is f***** up? 
<\sh> hellboy195: well, what is the problem anyways? 
<smarter> could someone please look at kde4-style-bespin 0.1~svn080206-0ubuntu2?   http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kde4-style-bespin
<hellboy195> \sh: if that are remaining changes or not ...
<smarter> It only fixes a bug
<smarter> in  the packaging
<\sh> hellboy195: did debian upstream include the kscreensaver desktop file ? 
<hellboy195> \sh: no
<\sh> hellboy195: then it's the remaining change :)
<Adri2000> \sh: it seems to me that the problem is that there are 2 or 3 changes you didn't mention in the changelog
<\sh> hellboy195: the gnome stuff was included in 2.6.8-7 and 2.6.8-7ubuntu1 readded the kscreensaver desktop bits
<hellboy195> \sh: and what about the ectricsheep-2.6.8/debian/patches/05_multihead_support.dpatch
<\sh> hellboy195: well, I just checked the last uploader ;)
<hellboy195> \sh: rofl.  that means? 
<\sh> hellboy195: the last uploader forget to mention this as well
<hellboy195> \sh: ha! 
<hellboy195> \sh: thx ^^
<\sh> hellboy195: well, he and I didn't drop it...
<\sh> hellboy195: check dbts if the bug is reported for the multihead patch
<hellboy195> \sh: it isn't.  so I have to include it and report that back to debian folks :)
<\sh> hellboy195: try to include that in a debian package (means create a sid package with the patch included and make a debdiff )
<hellboy195> \sh: what's the difference? 
<\sh> hellboy195: the buildsystem :) try to build the resulting new debian package against a sid pbuilder/sbuild chroot and make it running :)
<hellboy195> \sh: never did that before but ok ^^. and thx again
<\sh> hellboy195: just create pbuilder for sid (it's the same way as for hardy but s/hardy/sid/ ;))
<hellboy195> \sh: I know that but I mean when I reported changes back to debian I did it the normal way ;)
<\sh> hellboy195: having a debdiff is sometimes better for the maintainer ;) he just needs to testbuild/test run it ... in no time ;)
<hellboy195> \sh: submitodebian actually genereates a debdiff !? 
<\sh> hellboy195: dunno...I#m doing it manually
<\sh> sometimes I don't trust automations ;)
<\sh> bah...lighty 1.4.19 is out
<\sh> and it looks worth an FFe
<zul> bobbo: looks good
<bobbo> zul; cool, thanks
<hellboy195> \sh: ^^ I do it automatically but double check it :)  then hf with lighty ^^
<hellboy195> dholbach: I still make stupid mistakes xD (nn merge) sry for that nonsense
<zul> bobbo: uploaded
<dholbach> hellboy195: no problem
<bobbo> zul; thanks for reviwing/sponsoring
<\sh> hmm..
<\sh> I'm building lighty 1.4.19 it helps us a lot for hardy...
<hellboy195> \sh: what about electricsheep.desktop
<hellboy195> ???  My debdiff: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12606769/electricsheep_2.6.8-9ubuntu1.debdiff
<bobbo> zul; the rpm update FTBFS
<zul> bobbo: Ill take a look
<\sh> ScottK2: I need your advise: do you think an update of lighttpd 1.4.19 is a bugfix or a new upstream (read for more info: http://www.lighttpd.net/2008/3/10/1-4-19-made-in-germany) :)
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<ScottK2> looking
<\sh> ScottK2: for me it looks more like an bugfix release...
<ScottK2> \sh: I'm not certain.   It looks like it's good to have.   If you think it's bugfix, I'm not going to argue it. 
<\sh> ScottK2: I didn't see any new features, TBH...it builds clean, I added all diffs between our actual hardy version to actual debian sid version...so for me, I would just upload but I already filed a bug report anyways :)
<ScottK2> OK.   It's not clear to me if you have a change where they didn't support a required http feature and now they do if that's a bug or not. 
<ScottK2> But as I said, I won't argue it,
<\sh> ScottK2: ok...let's got the FFe way :) I mean, I have everything in place..and it's only a matter of two people approving it :)
<\sh> was it motu-release or ubuntu-release team...
<\sh> ah motu-release ;)
<\sh> ScottK2: bug #201439 if you want more input :)
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 201439 in lighttpd "[FFe] lighttpd 1.4.19" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201439
<ScottK2> \sh: I don't.   I'd say just upload it. 
<\sh> ScottK2: "In the Name of Castle Greyskull" I will ;)
<\sh> done
<rockstar_> After speaking with nealmcb last night, I'd like to become a motu.   Can someone describe the standard environment you work under to do tests and fixes?   Are you all running Hardy on a development system? 
<\sh> rockstar_: get familiar with pbuilder/sbuild environments...chroot debootstrap and things like that...
<jdong> pbuilder is the standard build environment for most of us
<jdong> and no, not all of us are running Hardy, though a good number of us do
<jdong> running hardy is not a requirement
<rockstar_> \sh, jdong thanks.   I'll dig in there. 
<nxvl> ScottK2: already merged the bugs you ask me to merge
<nxvl> ScottK2: patch is on Bug #179790
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 179790 in tinyerp-server "postgresql listens on :5432" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179790
 * cody-somerville now has 50 uploads :)
<ScottK> nxvl: OK.   Thanks. 
<nxvl> ScottK: also i ask for your feedback on a blueprint
<nxvl> ScottK: did you notice it? 
<mathiaz> dholbach: can you add me to the ubuntu-*-sponsors teams ? 
<ScottK> nxvl: No.   I didn't notice it. 
<nxvl> ScottK: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-centralized-services-administrator
<dholbach> mathiaz: done
<mathiaz> dholbach: thanks
<ScottK> nxvl: Interesting idea, but if we have ebox, how interested are people going to be? 
<nxvl> ScottK: as i said on the wiki, ebox is web based, so it *CAN* be a security issue at some point keeping in mind that is "remote" aplication
<ScottK> nxvl: I agree and this would be useful that you don't want a web server running on. 
<ScottK> nxvl: I'm just not sure how big a share of servers that is. 
<nxvl> ScottK: also i have the big idea to write a framework for developing curses and gtk modules for it, so it cas be used in the future for full administration of the system, in server and desktop
<ScottK> Why gtk? 
<nxvl> for desktop and home servers
<nxvl> for ibex i want it only to be focused on gtk
<nxvl> err
<nxvl> on curses
<nxvl> for ibex+1 maybe add gtk support
<nxvl> for home servers and to be able to use it on desktop and home servers
<nxvl> i want it to be writing using layers, so the UI is completely separeted from the backend
<nxvl> so it can be used for adding a gtk support, but that would be for ibex+1
<\sh> nxvl: make it independed...write a backend with all functionality...and prepare frontend calls for having multiple frontends (gtk, qt, curses, web, WHU)
<nxvl> i don't think i have the time to have it ready for ibex if i also want it to be gtk
<nxvl> \sh: thats what i mean when talking about layers
<nxvl> ScottK: also we need to discuss it more widely on UDS, but i don't want to go there with empty hands
<ScottK> Sure. 
<zul> *cough* func - https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/func/ *cough*
<nxvl> that's why as for your feedback, i know you, and you are a retailer person, so your opinion is really important for me
<nxvl> zul: 404
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> oh!  it was a certificate warning :P
<nxvl> zul: but it's only for network, not for services
<zul> nxvl: extend it then why invent the wheel? 
<nxvl> zul: because i want it to be modular
<\sh> nxvl: it's named "MVC" (Model View Controller) ;)) It inherits different design patterns :)
<nxvl> also if i based it on other applications, my idea is more like YaST, but a working one
<nxvl> \sh: yep, here it's called "por capas" which is literaly transtaled as "by layers"
<\sh> nxvl: I just read a cool book about design patterns...most of the stuff was already known and I am/was using those patterns already...but the naming is quite interesting (just because you use the same "language pattern" with other fellow developers) :)
<\sh> now I just need to get the design pattern books from the GoF (Gang Of Four) ;)
<nxvl> \sh: can you point me at it please? 
<\sh> nxvl: to have a really cool reading about this dry stuff, use http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Design-Patterns/dp/0596007124/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205340103&sr=8-2
<\sh> nxvl: forget about the java parts inside...it's worth a reading
<nxvl> \sh: thnx
<\sh> nxvl: I bought the "Heads First Java" and the "Heads First Design Patterns" and now I know Java and all those nifty coolish naming schemes for standard stuff ;)
<\sh> nxvl: and it's really cool...not the usual content about rewriting the documentation parts...new idea of learning things very fast...
<\sh> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey \sh! 
<\sh> what was the meaning of "NBS" again? 
 * \sh needs an abbrev translator...
<jdong> \sh: not built source, I think? 
<highvoltage> heh, that's what I guessed too, but it sounds wrong
<highvoltage> ubotu: NBS? 
<smarter> "[17:53] * \sh needs an abbrev translator..." sudo aptitude install bsdgames && wtf wtf
<\sh> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NBS :)
<highvoltage> ah :)
<\sh> ok...time to go home :)
<\sh> for ibex I have already 3 new packages on my list...
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> ok...cu later
<jussi01> jst a quick confirmation, Ive uploaded a debdiff to a bug, then subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors, anything else I need to do? 
<Adri2000> no
<jussi01> Adri2000: thank you, I assume that was aimed at me? 
<Adri2000> yes :)
<neh> any chance of xmonadcontrib 0.6 getting in to hardy?  I see xmonad is in, but all the best stuff about xmonad is in contrib.  If there's something I can work on to help get it in, just point me in the right direction...
<ScottK> neh: The freeze for new packages for Hardy was a month ago. 
<neh> ScottK: xmonad .6 went in 2 days ago...
<sistpoty|work> neh: that was a dependency of the ghc6 transition iirc
<ScottK> neh: There are freeze exceptions for good reasons. 
<neh> ok, so no xmonadcontrib.  I wouldn't know for sure if I didn't ask, would I? :-) 
<ScottK> Right
<ScottK> If you can and are sufficiently motivated, see the Universe section of wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<neh> fwiw, the package is in debian sid: http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/xmonad-contrib
<Laney> neh: But quickly!  BetaFreeze is tomorrow
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<jdstrand> hi emgent
<emgent> hi jdstrand :)
<jdstrand> I uploaded the vlc update
<jdstrand> the patches were good, however there were a couple of things with the debdiff (that I just fixed)
<emgent> thanks
<jdstrand> when referencing a CVE, it is preferred that you use mitre rather than nist
<Amaranth> why is that? 
<jdstrand> while not a strict debian policy issue, common practice dictates that the line width for the data portion of the changelog not exceed 80 characters
<jdstrand> Amaranth: convention more than anything else (perhaps bec nist is US based?) 
<jdstrand> emgent: also, the 'gutsy' debdiff didn't have the -security tag
<emgent> uhm ok thanks
<jdstrand> emgent: nothing showstopping, just little things
<neh> So, if I file a bug to request syncing xmonad-contrib from debian, is sid the appropriate source? 
<emgent> jdstrand, :)
<james_w> neh: yes, though it will happen automatically for hardy+1. 
<neh> james_w: right, but I'm hoping to get it for hardy...
<rockstar_> I've been looking through the bugs, triaging and finding dupes.   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subversion/+bug/43423  This bug seems to be fixed.   Is there a reason why it hasn't been closed? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 43423 in subversion "svn over https not working any longer" [Critical,Confirmed]
<afflux> rockstar_: I think you can mark this as fix released.  Note that bug triaging is rather in #ubuntu-bugs ;)
<rockstar_> afflux, awesome, thanks.   I'm kinda new to helping out. 
<afflux> rockstar_: you're welcome :)
<neh> I don't know if it has a chance for hardy, but there it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/201494
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 201494 in ubuntu "Please sync xmonad-contrib (0.6-4) from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<allee> torkel, siretart: how was the aufs experiment going? 
<Laney> neh: I think you need to subscribe motu-release
<Laney> neh: Please do bug people into at least taking a look ;)
<neh> Laney: thanks, done
<Laney> I'm quite interested in having a go with xmonad - wish I had the power to influence any decision :<
<neh> Laney: it's quite nice once you get used to a haskell config file. 
<Laney> Yeah, I'm a Haskeller myself.  Hence the interest :)
<neh> ah, I'm not, but I like it anyway
<torkel> allee: I had better success with removing resolv.conf, mtab and syslog.conf from the nfsroot
<allee> torkel: okay, thx
<torkel> allee: I will try aufs again when I have some more time, but that will propably not happen the next couple of weeks (unless I'm getting very bored preparing the setup for our new clusters)
<Khajavi> I want to package my php software
<Khajavi> how to? 
<Laney> ! packaging
<ubotwo> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also ! backports
<Khajavi> thanks alot
<Khajavi> :-[
<Khajavi> another question?  what is the different between code.launchpad and sourceforge? 
<hexmode> Khajavi: different services
<Khajavi> which is better? 
<hexmode> launchpad, of course
<Khajavi> can you say why? 
<hexmode> seriously, what do you want to know? 
<hexmode> sf is filled with ads
<highvoltage> well, at least code.launchpad.net don't have any ads. 
<Khajavi> I want package my php then introduce it to my freinds
<highvoltage> hexmode: snap :)
 * hexmode high fives highvoltage
<highvoltage> hexmode: ^5
<Khajavi> is it possible that my package go to ubuntu repository? 
<hexmode> Khajavi: if you put your pkg in a ppa
<hexmode> your friends can point to your ppa and upgrade automagically
<highvoltage> or you can have it sponsored by a MOTU if you want it to go into Universe. 
<Khajavi> uhhoom
<hexmode> and, of course, you can do that on launchpad and not sf
<RainCT> Khajavi: some differences: Launchpad has no ads, project registations need no approval, LP hosts Bazaar branches (SF CVS and SVN) and anyone can create as much of those as he wants in any project, bugs can be linked to external bug trackers and the BTS in general is more usable, etc. 
<RainCT> Khajavi: if you want more details better ask in #launchpad, this channel is for packaging
<Khajavi> thnak RainCT
<Khajavi> tutorial to be an MOTU? 
<Khajavi> how can I be MOTU? 
<Iulian> Khajavi: See /topic
<Khajavi> yes I find it:-D
<Laney> neh: I'm doing a test build of xmonad-contrib to add to the bug report.  Hopefully that will give it some weight. 
<tsmithe> slomo, ping (re mscore)
<slomo> tsmithe: sorry, busy atm... write me a mail please ;)
<tsmithe> kk
<tsmithe> slomo at debian dot org? 
<RainCT> what does beta freeze mean?  :P
<slomo> tsmithe: for example, yes
<tsmithe> righty
<RainCT> it's only for main/restricted, or? 
<lesshaste> hi
<neh> Laney: great, thank you
<Laney> Bah, pbuilder needs the --logfile option before the .dsc path
 * Laney turns over a table
<Laney> neh: Done. 
<Laney> neh: Now you just need to poke the right people ;)
<ScottK> superm1: You're mythtv-plugins backport depwaits on several archs due to lack of fftw-dev.   Would you please look into it. 
<ScottK> Laney: Or wait your turn because people get annoyed with excessive poking. 
<candrews> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/199754 That package has been completed, builds, and works on Ubuntu.  How does it get included in the repository? 
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 199754 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] mod_auth_cas" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<neh> Laney: I have no idea who to poke for this... and I don't want to piss anyone off
<neh> (like ScottK just said...)
<Laney> neh, ScottK: OK sorry. 
<Laney> I thought there was a pokage system in effect, my bad. 
<ScottK> candrews: New package freeze for Hardy was a month ago.   You come back in mid-May and work on getting your package into Debian in the mean time. 
<candrews> ouch - I guess I missed that by a while :-)
<candrews> Does the package need to be in Debian to get into Ubuntu? 
<ogra_cmpc> no, but it helps :)
<candrews> Cool - do you know who I talk to in Debian land? ( IRC channel, web site, etc) I already filed a bug with them, but I do not know what to do next. 
<ScottK> candrews: No, but if you get it into Debian the it is automatically imported into Ubuntu. 
<ScottK> candrews: #debian-mentors on OFTC. 
<ogra_cmpc> we release in 6 weeks or so ... if you get it into debian during that time we'll sync it with the frist sync for the next release
<candrews> thank you - I'll work on that, and hopefully the rest will be automatic. 
<promag> hello hello
<promag> my package installs some php scripts, but after install they belong to root:root
<mok0> promag: yes, that's right
<promag> how to change to www-data:www-data ? 
<promag> well I know chmod :P
<promag> but is there a right way? 
<mok0> promag: why do you want to do that? 
<geser> promag: chown? 
<promag> ops yes chown
<promag> because, for instance, those php scripts will need to have write access to a cache directory
<promag> and that cache directory is a sibling of those php scripts
<mok0> promag: you may need to do it in a postinst script
<promag> using chown? 
<mok0> dpkg-statoverride
<promag> ok ty
<promag> and to install a apache site? 
<promag> a2ensite? 
<slangasek> scripts should not be owned by www-data
<slangasek> if you need to do that, you're doing it wrong
<slangasek> having scripts owned by www-data means that the webserver process can overwrite them
<slangasek> --> security hole
<promag> it's better to have the cache dir with mode g+rw and be owned by root:www-data ? 
<slangasek> what do the cache dir permissions have to do with the permissions on the scripts? 
<promag> slangasek: nothing really
<promag> :)
<slangasek> then you can have a cache dir that's www-data:www-data, that's fine; but don't chown the scripts themselves
<slangasek> and a simple chown is appropriate - dpkg-statoverride would be exceptional
<DaveMorris> DktrKranz2: you been able to try out the code I supplied? 
<hellboy195> DAMN
<hellboy195> A motu arround?  I subscribed a FFe to u-u-s instead of motu-release.  anyone willing to change it :)
<pochu> link? 
<hellboy195> pochu: thx :) bug #201529
<ubotwo> Launchpad bug 201529 in supertuxkart "[FFe] Please sync supertuxkart 0.4-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201529
<hellboy195> And please grant the FFe ^^
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: buona sera
<pochu> grant? 
<DktrKranz> hey hellboy195
<DaveMorris> DktrKranz you been able to try out the code I supplied? 
<hellboy195> pochu: yes? 
<pochu> hellboy195: what do you mean? 
<DktrKranz> DaveMorris, not yet.  Just back home and finish sid upgrade
<hellboy195> pochu: to ACK my FFe request
<pochu> hellboy195: I'm not in motu-release, so I can't
<DaveMorris> np, I wasn't sure what timezone you where in
<hellboy195> pochu: yeah.  it was more in generel :)
<pochu> ah, ok :)
<pochu> unsubscribed
<DktrKranz> DaveMorris, Europe/Rome
<hellboy195> pochu: thank you :)
 * DaveMorris was in Rome the other week for work.   Lovely city, but beer was expensive
<DktrKranz> DaveMorris, heh.  Everything is quite expensive in Italy, not just beer
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: especially in Venezia xD
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, Venice, Florence, Milan, Rome.  You name it! 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: sure.  tourists = money
<DktrKranz> Citizens = taxes
<hellboy195> hmm
<hellboy195> ^^
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, news for beagle? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: Yesterday I ask Matvey, did you notice? 
<DktrKranz> mh... no
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: He just forgot about it -.- ^^
<DktrKranz> :D
<hellboy195> slomo: around? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: are you so keen to do it or just looking for work :P
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, if nobody is on it, I think I can have a look
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: also nobody is on my other merges ^^. No, I have to sort out who is willing to do it/plans to do it
<DktrKranz> I didn't follow in these days.  Is beta freeze affecting universe uploads too? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: persia told me only to do "usefull" merges after beta freeze
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: useful means extremly bug killing merges
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: so I suppose less work with approving merges
<DktrKranz> yes
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: does it make sense to talk about the sponsoring queue on friday though we are in FF/BetaFreeze?  A lot will forget ^^
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, it does.  Some bugs could be useful for release
<DktrKranz> and I'd like everyone has a chance to get into hardy in time
<hellboy195> hardy is nearly over ^^ but I know what you mean
<DktrKranz> hardy is almost done, now it's time to fix everything we can
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: but I can tell you.  I'm keen on merging new hot stuff for ibrex ^^
<DktrKranz> u-u-s queue ships bugs almost done, so they really deserve to be reviewed
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: I'm already excited.  A new adventure for me.  Bugfixing :)
<hellboy195> \sh: hoi :) looked at my debdiff? 
<\sh> hellboy195: sorry no...I'm busy with private stuff
<hellboy195> \sh: np.  I'm just wondering why we added a .desktop for Gnomescreensaver
<\sh> hellboy195: it's a helper
<\sh> hellboy195: a replacement for gnome-screensaver actually...
<hellboy195> \sh: not mentioned in the Changelog ,...
<\sh> hellboy195: of course it is...
<\sh>   * Fix typo in debian/rules to really install gnome-screensaver
<\sh>     .desktop file into the screensavers directory (LP: #131748, and others)
<\sh> in 2.6.8-6ubuntu2 ... as I said this afternoon ... it was forgotten to take it up to the actual version
<\sh> hellboy195: it was introduced in gutsy
<hellboy195> \sh: I don't say something bad about the last uploader ^^
<nxvl> ScottK: isn't Bug #15485 a kmail bug? 
<\sh> hellboy195: actually mario forgot to mention it in 2.6.8-7ubuntu1 and I was trusting him....nothing more nothing less...no big deal :)
<hellboy195> \sh: but especially for new contributor it's hard because the motu who approves the merges always complains about your incomplete changelog entry ^^
<\sh> hellboy195: just mention the forgotten changes (write: last uploaders forgot to mention those changes..please be careful next time, kthx) :)
<\sh> hellboy195: and yes, those things are happening and we all are glad that other motus are catching those things
<hellboy195> \sh: or the contributors ^^
<hellboy195> like me
<hellboy195> xD
<\sh> hellboy195: yes motus :)
<\sh> hellboy195: I'll count you already in...
<hellboy195> \sh: ehm.  nice but that's really to early.  I only did ~60 merges/syncs ..
<\sh> hellboy195: that's good :) time to apply
<hellboy195> \sh: you make me laugh :)
<\sh> did I mention, that wmii is wonderful when working mostly on the console? :) 
<\sh> hellboy195: that was serious
<hellboy195> \sh: Ã¤hm.  I *still* make mistakes and I want to gain experience in other parts of the motu work before I apply ;) (As I said, *only* merges/syncs so far)
<cody-somerville> :)
<\sh> hellboy195: we all make mistakes..which is good...it makes us more human :)
<hellboy195> \sh: yeah but I want to be a motu but I'm not feeling like one.  Give me some more months :)
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, nobody is perfect, and nobody knows everything.  just ask when unsure
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: yeah.  But I still make partially newbie mistakes and I want to reduce that ;)
<hellboy195> \sh: but I'll apply for membership in ~ubuntumembers.  you can vote for me :)
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, you'll have some time to improve
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: yeah I already said.  Some more moths before I apply :)
<DktrKranz> good work, then
<hellboy195> xD
<DktrKranz> my caps lock is broken...
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: any news about fail2ban? 
<DktrKranz> didn't look properly
<DktrKranz> i'm focused on u-u-s
<hellboy195> k
<ScottK2> hellboy195: If you've only done merges/syncs so far, then you should find some bugs to fix. 
<hellboy195> ScottK: That's my plan ;)
<ScottK2> Great. 
<ScottK2> hellboy195: What kind of packages are you interested in? 
<hellboy195> ScottK: hmm.  can you give examples? 
<hellboy195> wb DktrKranz ^^
<ScottK2> hellboy195: Do you use Ubuntu/Kubuntu?   Interested in server? 
<DktrKranz> that capslock was killing me
<hellboy195> ScottK: Ubuntu :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: bad capslock ^^
 * ScottK2 won't be much help then. 
<hellboy195> ScottK: kubuntu/server expert? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: being a motu before Andrea returns would be somehow funny xD
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, funny, but not improbable
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: he will be absent soo long? :( 
<DktrKranz> or you won't take so long, your choice :P
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: hrhr ^^. The only thing which is limitating me is school.  last 3 moths, last year ,..
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, scholl first! 
<DktrKranz> *school
<hellboy195> then I have to change something now ^^
<hellboy195> brb
<RainCT> argh.. damn epiphany package
<RainCT> always install the wrong one :P
<RAOF> epiphany-_browser_ :)
<Fujitsu> Has anybody ever wanted epiphany, not epiphany-browser? 
<RAOF> What _is_ epiphany, anyway? 
<Fujitsu> Some game, IIRC. 
<Fujitsu> Ah, maintained by joerg. 
<ScottK2> hellboy195: There's plenty of good work available in Bug #199014. 
<RainCT> yeh, some game.. if at least it was a good game :P
<hellboy195> ScottK: yeah.  I see.  great :) btw.   I hope I can count on you when I apply for membership in ~ubuntumembers
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: And I promise you *if* I'm a motu one day.  I'll join u-u-s .  I know that it's really important :)
<DktrKranz> \o/
<RainCT> awen_: neither lintian nor linda are happy with your package
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: and to make you happy ^^
<hellboy195> ScottK: just can I take/assign one to me if I want? 
<ScottK2> hellboy195: As long as it's not assigned to someone else. 
<awen_> RainCT: they are happy when i run them on the .changes file? 
<hellboy195> ScottK: that's clear ^^
<KasimirGabert> I've been having troubles getting REVU to work for nearly a month now! ( well, a month ago, and then today and yesterday still)
<KasimirGabert> would somebody be able to help me? 
<KasimirGabert> just a few quick pointers? 
<KasimirGabert> my question is basically
<RainCT> awen_: They can do two sorts of reviews, on the source and on the binary; the source is clean, but the .deb no.  I'm posting their complains in REVU; most of the errors should go away adding a call to dh_strip. 
<KasimirGabert> it says it is uploaded
<KasimirGabert> but nothing happens
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: have you joined the universe package contributors team? 
<KasimirGabert> yes
<KasimirGabert> let me double check
<KasimirGabert> :)
<KasimirGabert> and thanks!!! 
<KasimirGabert> :)
<KasimirGabert>                 Your involvement                                                                     You are a member of this team. 
<KasimirGabert> so I should be
<awen_> RainCT: okay, actually makes sense, that you can do that too... i'll look at it, and thanks
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: Do you have your PGP key on Launchpad, and have you used the same one to sign the package(s) you uploaded? 
<KasimirGabert> yes
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: uhm.. what package was it? 
<KasimirGabert> xboardloader
<KasimirGabert> at least I believe it is the same key
<KasimirGabert> I don't see why it would be otherwise
<KasimirGabert> I do have another PGP key
<KasimirGabert> but it is associated with my GMail account
<KasimirGabert> and not with the account I use to sign my packages
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: the package is there
<KasimirGabert> hm...
<KasimirGabert> okay
<KasimirGabert> maybe I'm going crazy
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: xboardloader_0.1.4-1ubuntu1.dsc, xboardloader_0.1.4-1ubuntu1.diff.gz, xboardloader_0.1.4.orig.tar.gz
<KasimirGabert> :)
<KasimirGabert> hm...
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: and also xboardloader_0.1.3-1.tar.gz, xboardloader_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.diff.gz, xboardloader_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.dsc
<KasimirGabert> it doesn't seem to be at http://revu.tauware.de/index.py
<KasimirGabert> and I don't seem to have an account..
<RainCT> there are some other xboardloader uploads marked as rejected though
<KasimirGabert> No REVU account for kasimir@kgprog.com exists yet. 
<KasimirGabert> recent ones? 
<KasimirGabert> why would they be rejected? 
<KasimirGabert> bad quality of package? 
<KasimirGabert> sorry about this, and thank you a lot
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: Feb 20, Feb 21 and Mar 12
<KasimirGabert> hm...
<KasimirGabert> do you know why they aren't showing up at revu.tauware.de ? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: aren't they neither on http://revu.tauware.de/index.py?archived=true? 
<KasimirGabert> nope
<RainCT> (sorry my connection is damn slow right now.. actually it's quite often damn slow :()
<KasimirGabert> ah
<KasimirGabert> I'm sorry
<KasimirGabert> I'll be happy when residential Internet speeds in the US are like in Japan :)
<RainCT> ok I see.. all files were rejected (don't really understand REVU yet :))
<KasimirGabert> hm...
<KasimirGabert> okay
<KasimirGabert> what does that mean? 
<KasimirGabert> or... what am I doing horribly wrong? 
<KasimirGabert> I tried to follow the directions...
<RainCT> but I don't know why.. (there are errors in the changelogs, but I don't think that those would cause a reject)
<RainCT> siretart: are you around? 
<RainCT> awen_: (forgot to say that I've already posted the comment)
<KasimirGabert> hm... I have multiple email addresses on Launchpad
<KasimirGabert> does that have anything to do with it? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: I don't think so, a lot of us have many e-mails there
<KasimirGabert> hm...
<KasimirGabert> and I have been part of the group for a long time
<KasimirGabert> well, since I first tried this
<RainCT> awen_: beside dh_strip, "architecture: any" was already right (it was any the last time I looked at it, or?),  and there's a manpage missing
<awen_> RainCT: i kind of got convinced into arch all ... but yes it should be changed back to any
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: could it be because I uploaded them back when my default email was something else that they are all being rejected? 
<awen_> do we have some good info about making a man-page (remember something with "po" or something like that) but couldn't find info
<RainCT> awen_: heh sorry for the confusion :)
<RainCT> awen_: there's some info on using POD or docbook on the wiki
<RainCT> awen_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles
<awen_> RainCT: no worries... combining python and c does confuse :)
<awen_> RainCT: thanks! ...  i'll have a look
<RainCT> awen_: or just look at some other man page.. there are many groff (the native format in which manpages are written) manpages in ubuntu-dev-tools for example
<ScottK2> awen_: Grab one that looks good.   Make your changes to make it for your package.   Edit until lintian is quiet (don't forget -I)
 * RainCT goes to eat something
<awen_> RainCT: okay, that's another option.  thanks... but point one should be to find out, what that binary actually do :)
<RainCT> awen_: heh, yes, that can be the most difficult thing (or the easiest) :)
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: sorry that I couldn't be of more help.. let's see if siretart comes around, he will probably know better
<RainCT> s/more/much
<KasimirGabert> okay
<KasimirGabert> thanks
<KasimirGabert> :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: I think I'll wait until friday night/saturday morning and then assign beagle to you :)
<DktrKranz> not sure if I'll be able to upload it during beta freeze
<ScottK2> DktrKranz: Since it's in universe you'll be able to upload, it'll just have to be manually published. 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: ah np.  just in generel becaues I know that you won't forget it.  at least because we nearly talk to each other every day :)
<hellboy195> ScottK: btw, what's the official replacement for python-xml ? 
<RainCT> hellboy195: python (>= 2.4)
<DktrKranz> ScottK2, are there particular restrictions or standard guidelines apply? 
<DktrKranz> (e.g. asking release-managers before pushing)
<hellboy195> RainCT: cool, thx :)
<RainCT> ScottK2: what does the beta freeze mean (for MOTUs)?  on the wiki it only mentions main/restricted
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: if you tell me your email I'll check if you're in REVU's db
<ScottK2> RainCT: Not much.   Just the publisher is on manual, so stuff doesn't get uploaded right away.   slangasek said he'd clarify all that when he announced the actual freeze
<DktrKranz> good! 
<RainCT> ScottK2: ok, thanks
<hellboy195> RainCT: want merges?  ^^
 * DktrKranz hides
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: ^^. You've done a lot in the past ;)
<DktrKranz> now it's other MOTU's turn? :) 
<hellboy195> I want to give you a break :)
<hellboy195> besides that it's faster than I'm waiting for a sponsor from u-u-s ^^
<hellboy195> hm merges aren't that important.  I want to see my FFe go through ^^
<hellboy195> off for today.  gn8 folks :)
<DktrKranz> mh... debian's devscripts has'nt Launchpad-fixed-bugs tag...
<KasimirGabert> siretart: would you be able to help me with a REVU issue? 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK2> Heya
<bddebian> Hi Scott
<slangasek> moin
<bddebian> Heya slangasek
<awen_> RainCT: changed it back to arch: any, and added a man-page > http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=uniconvertor ... thanks again
<doko> ScottK: online? 
<ScottK2> yes
<ScottK2> doko: What's up? 
<doko> do you have time to waste? 
<ScottK2> Not particularly.   If you have something that needs doing, I can see about it.   Herding the python-xml removal is still taking a bit of time. 
<RainCT> awen_: no problem :)
<RainCT> good night all
<Hobbsee> what is it with people who file uvfe's right before freezes?   :)
<doko> yep, the python-xml removal would be nice as well
<doko> here is the idea:
<awen_> yes... good night everyone
<doko> the Contents files are regenerated: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/
<Hobbsee> and sync requests.   for new packages. 
<doko> now determine every package which has files in /usr/share/pycentral/ ... and rebuld it
<slangasek> doko: heh, twitch
<doko> sladen: ? 
<slangasek> doko: /me misses binNMUs :)
<doko> slangasek: heh, you appear as sladen first ...
<doko> yeah, I probaly can't do that before Monday, or is universe still unfrozen? 
<ScottK2> doko: I'm fairly certain I don't have time for a project like that. 
<doko> np
<ScottK2> However, I'm pretty sure we can find someone. 
<doko> ScottK2: would you have time to mentor this person? 
<ScottK2> doko: Yes. 
<doko> cool! 
<ScottK2> I've got someone in mind too. 
<ScottK2> It's a bit late for them right now, but I'll try and catch then tomorrow. 
<ScottK2> Wait a minute
<doko> slangasek: already done for main ...
<KasimirGabert> would any of you guys have a few seconds to look through and see why all of my uploads to REVU are being rejected?  I'm trying to get started with Ubuntu... and not able to upload for some reason :P
<ScottK2> doko: Does it need to look for the files or can it look for build-dep on python-central? 
<ScottK2> KasimirGabert: You do realize we aren't at the part of the development cycle where we take new packages, right? 
<doko> ScottK2: you'll get some false positives when just looking for d. on p-c
<KasimirGabert> ScottK2: I do understand that, I just feel that I might as well figure out how to upload stuff
<ScottK2> KasimirGabert: OK
<KasimirGabert> I'm not asking for it to be looked over right now.. :)
<doko> but that shouldn't harm
<KasimirGabert> the package is xboardloader ... and it seems to have been denied numerous times
<KasimirGabert> but I have no idea why
<ScottK2> doko: That'll be easier than I was thinking at first.   Maybe I can. 
<ScottK2> KasimirGabert: Try during the European day/evening and look for sistpoty. 
<KasimirGabert> okay, thanks
<KasimirGabert> :)
<doko> ScottK2: grep ^usr/share/pycentral/ Contents-i386 | awk '{print $2}' |grep 'universe' | awk -F/ '{print $3}'| sort -u > pycentral.universe
<protonchris> slangasek: thanks for looking at bug 200292.   I'll see if I can get the upload sponsored tonight. 
<ScottK2> doko: THanks
<slangasek> protonchris: no problem
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-13
<Amaranth> bug 67384
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 67384 in openoffice.org-amd64 "Openoffice keeps crashing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67384
<Amaranth> woo, ubotu is back
<kgoetz> hi all, probably otish, but not sure of a better place: if i grab the 'linux' source package ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux ), does that build the restricted binary packages, or just clean ones? 
<minghua> Hmm, Debian unstable's dpkg refuse to work on the hardy partition.   This is going to be tricky...
<Fujitsu> minghua: What evil are you trying to commit? 
<minghua> Fujitsu: Nah, I am completely an innocent victim here. 
<minghua> Fujitsu: Just bitten by bug #201673. 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201673 in glibc "Hardy: "invalid pointer: 0xb7ef4b70" no program will start." [ Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201673
<Fujitsu> minghua: You could always manually extract the file in question. 
<RAOF> You can't just mount up your hardy root and dpkg -x a working libc to it? 
 * LaserJock was going to mention something about hijacking
<LaserJock> perhaps it's a little late in the evening for that though
 * Fujitsu sends iwj after LaserJock. 
<minghua> Fujitsu: Yeah, I think that's what I'm going to do. 
<LaserJock> minghua: send iwj after me? :( 
<minghua> RAOF: Using which dpkg? 
<RAOF> minghua: Sid's, presumably, since Hardy's will be linked to a broken libc :)
<minghua> RAOF: Exactly.   That's why I said "Debian unstable's dpkg refuse to work on the hardy partition" at the beginning. 
<minghua> RAOF: "dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `mlocate' in statoverride file" is the error message. 
<RAOF> minghua: I think we may be talking past each other.   Sid's dpkg presumably works in Sid, right? 
<StevenK> That's probably a symptom, not the problem
<StevenK> NSS looks busted in Hardy due to the latest glibc upload. 
<RAOF> So, you boot into Debian, mount hardy's root to /media/please-fix-my-root, and dpkg -x libc6_version_that_works.deb /media/please-fix-my-root, right? 
<minghua> RAOF: "dpkg --root=/mnt --install libc6_2.7-5ubuntu2_i386.deb" in unstable gives the error message above. 
<RAOF> minghua: Ah, you're trying to do something better than me.   I was just trying to get you a working libc.so.6, so you could use hardy's dpkg again :)
<minghua> RAOF: Okay, dpkg -x directly, I didn't think of that.   Thanks, I'll have a look. 
 * TheMuso just realized that it will likely break the buildds as well. 
<superm1> why was libc changed this late in the cycle though I have to wonder? 
<superm1> these are more of the behaviors you'd expect before alpha1 etc
<minghua> Yeah, I think the QA procedure (if there was one) is completely thrown out of the window on this one. 
<minghua> Such things by no means help us attracting testers. 
<StevenK> Yay for complete conjecture. 
 * RAOF likes to think that this was meant to be a useful bug fix :)
<minghua> StevenK: By "conjecture" you are referring to my comments? 
<StevenK> minghua: I am
<superm1> well it appears that not everyone upgrading is affected though.   i've just spoken to a few folks that weren't affected
<superm1> hm
<superm1> i certainly don't look forward to having to reboot, find a live disk, and try to solve this on my system though. 
<minghua> StevenK: Sorry I don't quite understand.   Whose conjecture do you mean?   Glibc uploader's?   Mine? 
<StevenK> minghua: Your conjecture. 
<minghua> StevenK: Which is? 
<StevenK> minghua: That the QA procedure was ignored
<slangasek> well, the QA procedure here certainly doesn't seem to have included requesting a FFe...
<minghua> StevenK: True, it's all my guess.   But I hope you can understand my bitterness. 
<StevenK> Blink.  My gutsy laptop managed to switch back to gdm from usplash while shutting down
<RAOF> StevenK: Oh, you haven't seen that before?   Happened not infrequently for me (but it seems fixed now). 
<StevenK> RAOF: Nope
<Amaranth> StevenK: I get that when X freezes on shutdown and I have to manually kill it to make the shutdown continue
<StevenK> It switched back, I thought, "Wow, that was very fast", typed in my username, hit enter, it switched back to usplash, and I went "Oh.  It hasn't shut down yet"
<minghua> slangasek: Is the "update-alternative sticks at manual status" thing mentioned in bug #199030 a bug (i.e., can be fixed in some preinst/postinst scripts)?   Or is it something more sinister? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199030 in scim "Can't close SCIM" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199030
<slangasek> minghua: can be fixed in a future preinst/postinst
<minghua> slangasek: Thanks.   Probably not worth it though (I believe the problematic setting only existed in one version, unfortunately it's the version shipped in alpha6). 
<LaserJock> nixternal: geeze dude, you had to blog it? 
<StevenK> "malloc this and malloc that everywhere" -- helpful. 
<StevenK> Not. 
<RAOF> Why must building Xorg git be so annoying.   Also, I'd like the forum universe to stop suggesting that installing the nvidia drivers with envy as the first port of call for any form of problem with graphics. 
<StevenK> Heh
<kgoetz> (sorry for repost) probably otish, but not sure of a better place: if i grab the 'linux' source package (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux ), does that build the restricted binary packages, or just clean ones? 
<RAOF> kgoetz: No, it doesn't.   l-u-m and l-r-m are built from their own source packages. 
<kgoetz> RAOF: thanks.  i was filing a bug on something that may not be redistributable, so i wanted to be sure
<minghua> Heh.   Nice to see ScottK standing up against CoC slapping. 
<dholbach> good morning
<boomer> dholbach: good morning
<dholbach> hiya boomer
<boomer> o/
<emgent> heya :P
<\sh> hmm...are we switching back from compiz to metacity and it's new composit world order? ;) 
<Fujitsu> \sh: And sacrifice Compiz's instability!?  Sounds silly. 
<emgent> argh
<emgent> heya Fujitsu :)
<\sh> Fujitsu: well, seeing kde4 kwin and compositing ... I really don't know what's stability ;)
<Fujitsu> Hiya emgent. 
<Fujitsu> emgent: Were you at the meeting? 
<emgent> security meeting ? 
<Fujitsu> Yeah. 
<emgent> Yes, but I had to leave before the end .. Small problems at home
<\sh> oh damn...security meeting...my time schedule is too packed in the moment I think
<emgent> My topic have been sent to the next meeting
<Fujitsu> 6am + being sick == forgetting to attend, sorry. 
<emgent> ubuntu-pentest team will be start quickly
<emgent> I just finally completing "anateater"
<emgent> Fujitsu, yesterday kees try to find you about motu-swat
<Fujitsu> emgent: I saw the ping, yeah. 
 * Fujitsu reads the context. 
<emgent> meeting log is avaiable
<Fujitsu> emgent: What was the motu-swat item? 
<emgent> membership to join in this team
<Fujitsu> What do you mean? 
<Fujitsu> (and where's the agenda these days?) 
<emgent> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<emgent> MOTU-SWAT membership (postposed until motu-swat admins are available)
<Fujitsu> What about membership?  The requirements? 
<emgent> Fujitsu, i dont know, it's a keescook topic
<Fujitsu> emgent: Ah, thanks. 
<emgent> Fujitsu, anyway i know who request membership
<emgent> Nicolas ValcÃ¡rcel (nxvl) (nvalcarcel)
<emgent> and Andrea Corbellini (andrea-bs)
<cprov> hi, can someone help me to fix the upgrade-disaster in my hardy installation ? 
<cprov> it died after the new glibc installation. 
<emgent`work> cprov, glibc broken: https://launchpad.net/bugs/201673
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201673 in glibc "Hardy: "invalid pointer: 0xb7ef4b70" no program will start." [ Critical,Confirmed]
<emgent`work> cprov, anyway for hardy please join #ubuntu+1
<cprov> emgent`work, thanks
<emgent`work> np
* emgent`work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze is underway.   Review your changes.  | Let's clear http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ for Alpha 6!  | hardy glibc broken: https://launchpad.net/bugs/201673
<Laney> Haha, I was *just* about to hit yes on aptitude
 * Laney runs far, far away
<amarillion> Is there a debian policy for naming meta-packages? 
<amarillion> most metapackages in ubuntu seem to be named xxx-desktop
<slytherin> persia: FYI ... Got internet connection at home.  So I will be able to smash more bugs and FTBFS now.  :-D
<slytherin> Can someone 'give back' evolution-rss? 
<\sh> anyone has a clue of openbox? 
<Hobbsee> glibc breakage, right before a freeze/  tasty. 
<\sh> old news...
<\sh> fix is already uploaded :)
<emgent> \sh: there is a big problem now :P
<emgent> new glibc FBTFS, bacause try to build with old glibc broken :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: i just got home
<\sh> emgent: the bug is LDFLAGS, the very same bug as with wine 0.9.55
<emgent> yes i saw launchpad bug :P
<emgent> i have to go, see you later :)
<\sh> emgent: I wonder who was the dude who introduced those LDFLAG changes for the dpkg-buildpackage
<Fujitsu> \sh: They hit a couple of my packages too, which was infuriating. 
<\sh> Fujitsu: it took us 4 weeks actually to find out that wine doesn't like our LDFLAGS...and now glibc...for me a reason to not introduce newly untested flags
<Hobbsee> hi jono
<jono> hey Hobbsee
<\sh> grmpf...I can't work now...
<\sh> bah
<\sh> nice..libc6 ftbfs again...unable to apply some patches...
<StevenK> It's being dealt with
<StevenK> \sh: Newly untested flags?  They look to be fine in the general case, it's just wine and glibc which are not normal pieces of software that don't work
<DaveMorris> DktrKranz2: How did you get on with that example? 
<\sh> StevenK: well, after wine 0.9.54 was out those LDFLAGS were introduced, eventually without any further testing...and now glibc, which wasn't tested, too...
<\sh> StevenK: so I say, untested flags
<\sh> StevenK: and yes, I know this can give us speed improvements, but without test-building the whole archive, and see what breaks, this was a change which was really adventure-like
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<emgent> hi sistpoty|work :P
<sistpoty|work> hi emgent
<promag> I'm using this "apt-get --simulate dist-upgrade" to get the list of packages available for upgrading but it only gives me the package name and version.  Is there an easy way to also get the short description of each package? 
<slytherin> anu buildd admins here? 
<dholbach> slytherin: try #ubuntu-devel
<soren> slytherin: If you want them to rebuild stuff due to libc6 breakage, don't bother :)
<soren> slytherin: Common procedure in these situations (with massive build failures and such) is to retry everything that failed to build within the last X hours. 
<slytherin> soren: No.  It is evolution-rss plugin.  Looks like just wrong timing for builds caused FTBFS on non-i386 arch. 
<\sh> soren: no.  1 task: make glibc running again ;)
<soren> \sh: It's building as we speak. 
<soren> slytherin: Er.. That's what I'm referring to? 
<\sh> soren: you don't mean 2.7-9ubuntu2? 
 * Fujitsu looks with confusion at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/2.7-9ubuntu2/+build/539089.  Is it needing to be built, currently building, or finished building? 
<soren> \sh: Yes? 
<\sh> soren: lp said: FTBFS because of a patch which can't be applied...so I think someone is working on 2.7-9ubuntu3
<soren> \sh: No. 
<Fujitsu> \sh: No, ubuntu2 now builds OK. 
<slytherin> soren: Oh.  But AFAIK, this is not the failure in last 24 hours.  It is there for last 3 days at least. 
<soren> \sh: It breaks because the buildd's had the broken libc6. 
<soren> slytherin: Oh, ok. 
<soren> \sh: So it's a buildd issue now.  No new glibc is needed.  We'll just rebuild 9ubuntu2 and all will be well. 
<\sh> soren: ah so it's just a task of buildd sysadmin to inject a new one which needs to be build with a running system ;)
<\sh> soren: btw...the bugger is really the dpkg upload from 2008-02-11 ;) with the introduced change to compiler flags
<soren> \sh: I know. 
<soren> *shrug*
<soren> :)
<\sh> soren: seriously: when we start to rebuild all stuff against this new dpkg-buildpackage world order, we will see, that some apps won't run anymore...hopefully it's not much...but we should have tested it before this change went public
<\sh> well..somehow I'm annoyed, because I can't do my work right now...building packages for the company on hardy fails ;)
<soren> Er... We're in a development cycle.  We develop stuff and see what happens. 
<Fujitsu> Some things break at runtime, and others at compiletime.  It's really hard to test automatically for the former, which is what these two cases were. 
<Fujitsu> The two cases that I hit were the latter, which made things much easier :)
<\sh> soren: yes...that is not the problem...but introducing some flags which are changing runtime behaviour needs to be better tested before the change...even in a devel cycle. 
<_ruben> having troubles compiling iscsitarget-source .. cant find any filed bugs for it, or perhaps im looking in the wrong place .. gutsy gibbon desktop (as test, want run another test on server later on)
<\sh> runtime errors are evil...and if the software developer is not at fault, the distro folks are, always ;) /me included...
 * \sh is really bored
<_ruben> ok, am blind, there's a bug filed for it afterall
<promag> I'm using this "apt-get --simulate dist-upgrade" to get the list of packages available for upgrading but it only gives me the package name and version.  Is there an easy way to also get the short description of each package? 
<slytherin> If I update create a patch for configure.in, what is the way to get configure regenerated while building the package? 
<mok0> promag: apt-get --simulate dist-upgrade |grep Inst|cut -f2 -d' '|xargs apt-cache show|egrep 'Desc|Pack'
<mok0> promag: apt-get --simulate dist-upgrade |xargs wajig whatis
<mok0> promag: the latter is better if you have wajig installed...
<Iulian> Hey
<slytherin> dholbach: I am trying to fix evolution-scalix package.  I am patching configure.in.  How do I generate configure script in build process? 
<dholbach> slytherin: I'd recommend what seb128 said in #ubuntu-devel
<slytherin> dholbach: Can you elaborate more? 
<promag> mok0: ty
<huats> When I use debuild -S -sa to update a package, it yells that that pyqt is not installed... first time I encounter such a thing... any idea ? 
<huats> (it just happens of course for a package that need pyqt)
<mok0> huats: you don't have pyqt installed? 
<\sh> huats: if build-dep says it needs pyqt you should have installed it on your system...
<huats> yeah I that is what I figued out also... I am just suprised it is needed for debuild -S -sa
<mok0> huats: use dpkg-buildpackage directly then
<huats> ok
<huats> mok0: thanks
<\sh> huats: hmm...clean rule uses a python script which needs pyqt e.g.? 
<huats> \sh: I'll check
<slavik> so ... any chance for a firefox3 beta4 package in the repo? 
<DktrKranz2> DaveMorris: yes.  It looks good, but I haven't uploaded it since glibc is broken now. 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: hi :) you are noticing everything.  wicked. ( opencv).  btw read the comment by Sarah on streamtuner? 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: I did
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: I'll readd it and that's all :)
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: IIRC, she said she didn't remove it intentionally, so it seems it can be re-enabled. 
<DktrKranz2> it should not bring in troubles, that's why I was unsure of it. 
 * Hobbsee blames MoM
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: but then the sync blocker is: Move yelp and xmms from Suggests to Recommends  <-- do de merge or wait for a debian update if I report the changes back? 
<DktrKranz2> I didn't see any good point to remove it, unless some troubles with buildd or whatever
<hellboy195> Hobbsee: a pleasure to see you here :) You know.  Our different timezones ,.. :)
<Hobbsee> :)
 * Hobbsee is always here. 
 * Hobbsee may be afk though. 
<hellboy195> Hobbsee: ^^ true.  btw, I use DaD ;)
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: are changes really important to justify an upload now? 
<DktrKranz2> if so, we can sync it in intrepid, the important part is to inform Debian guys about interesting changes. 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: hmm we can wait for intrepid.  But report now back to them? 
<DktrKranz2> yes
<hellboy195> :)
<Hobbsee> the freeze is not in yet...
<Hobbsee> so you can still get it uploaded
<DktrKranz2> Be sure to check if it hasn't been reported before, and to see if it is good for them (IIRC, it seems so)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: yeah I always check ;)
<hellboy195> Hobbsee: it isn't that important.  Ah and thx for the supertuxkart ACK
<Hobbsee> yay, supertux :)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: aren't there discussions here in ubuntu and in debian to remove xmms from the repo? 
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Are you one of the buildd admins? 
<Hobbsee> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> Hobbsee: can you give back evolution rss?  As per my understanding it has build failure due to wrong timing on non-i386 arch. 
<Hobbsee> slytherin: given back
<slytherin> Hobbsee: thanks. 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: IIRC, yes.  Not sure about progress, though. 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: well this isn't a real problem.  I advice debian folks to replace xmms with xmms2 then if it's stable :)
<DktrKranz2> there are several plugins still depending on xmms
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: yeah.  I won't get removed in the *near* future I suppose
<sistpoty|work> oh Hobbsee: can you fiddle with buildd timeouts as well? 
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: i can't cancel builds, so probably not. 
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: one day, launchpad will actually implement that in the UI, then yes. 
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: heh, ok... seems like I still need to ping infinity then (though I've not yet managed to be up when he is) to make ghc6 build on sparc (it produces no output for a few hours, so gets killed, but the build would otherwise be fine)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: i'd say so
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: i'm limited on wha'ts in the UI - so only reprioing, giving back, etc. 
<Hobbsee> i can mark the buildds as dead, or add more too, iir
<Hobbsee> c
<sistpoty|work> ah, k :(
<Hobbsee> the rest is Lamont/infinity's domain
<soren> sistpoty|work: Er... Just make it say something? 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: probably it will, but not for Lenny, I guess
<soren> sistpoty|work: I don't think expecting builds to be hanging if they don't say anything for hours on end is an unreasonable heuristic. 
<hellboy195> We'll see
<sistpoty|work> soren: it's just a ghc6->gcc invocation (with gcc taking a few hours then).  so that would not be too easy, and it would imho be wrong, as the build itself is not buggy (just the timeout too small)
<sistpoty|work> soren: I don't say anything against the heuristic, just that the timeout is too small ;)
<soren> sistpoty|work: axiom for instance has a loop in its debian/rules that says "I'm still running" or something. 
<soren> sistpoty|work: How long is it?  Two hours? 
<sistpoty|work> soren: about 9 hours on spooky (but spooky is not the fastest sparc)
<soren> sistpoty|work: The timeout is 9 hours? 
<sistpoty|work> soren: the timeout is 1 hour 30 or s.th.,  but the longest gcc invocation of my test build took 9 hours
<soren> sistpoty|work: If I have to wait more than a couple hours for the buildd's to figure out that a build has hung, I'll be quite annoyed, I think. 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: re bug 201185, is there a way to limit URL to be < 80 chars? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201185 in opencv "Merge opencv 1.0.0-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201185
<DktrKranz2> (cosmetic)
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: hmm I already thought about it.  I think I can delete the url and only name the patch and the contributor? 
<sistpoty|work> soren: OTOH adding s.th.  that circumvents the heuristic would... *erm* be counterproductive as well (if the build would really hang)? 
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: if it's cvs/svn, you may name revision number
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: I'll take car
<hellboy195> *cre
<hellboy195> *care xD
<DktrKranz2> :)
<soren> sistpoty|work: That's a good point, too. 
<sistpoty|work> soren: anyway, I'd rather like a buildd admin handle the issue, and if the advice from him is to produce output, I can always do that then ;)
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: it's too early for you to take a car :)
<slytherin> Does dash support 'if' conditional blocks that we usually use in bash? 
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: Do you see anything wrong with this block? 
<slytherin> if [ $EAPI_MINOR_VERSION -gt 10 ]; then
<slytherin>     EVO_imagesdir="`pkg-config --variable=imagesdir evolution-shell`"
<slytherin> else
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: not in the if/then block... does it produce some error? 
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: I am now thinking if there is some problem with variable declaration.  Something wrong with comparison
<soren> Well, if EAPI_MINOR_VERSION is not set, the syntax is broken. 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: untrue ;)
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: yes, what soren wrote
<DktrKranz2> hellboy195: really?  So it's just us who need to be 18? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: yep.  Here in Austria you could start with 17 and in the USA even with 16
<hellboy195> DktrKranz2: and I have the driving license since july 2007 ;)
<DktrKranz2> heh :)
<DktrKranz2> c u later
<hellboy195> you too
<mok0> see you DktrKranz2
<slytherin> Why the heck I can not compare a float with an integer? :-( 
<soren> In which language? 
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: FLOORVAL=$(echo $FLOAT | cut -d'.'  -f 1)
<soren> slytherin: ^
<sistpoty|work> maybe that ^
<soren> In posix shell? 
<slytherin> soren: bash.  Actually I am trying to fix a build failure in which I have to compare evolution version installed to see if it is greater than certain value. 
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: though of course you might want to use bc to really work with floats
<mok0> bash doesn't know about floating point
<soren> slytherin: Use dpkg --compare-versions? 
<slytherin> soren: Don't think it will be possible.  I am patching configure script
<soren> slytherin: What's the problem, you're trying to solve? 
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: I guess the only way is to split the version string in separate substrings (as a version might have more '.'  in it)
<slytherin> soren: since evolution 2.12, there is no pkg-config --modversion evolution-shell-$version (where $version is evolution version).  There is only pkg-config --modversion evolution-shell.  So I am trying to fix that part in configure script
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: if you know for certain, that there can be only one point, you can use echo "${some_version} >= 2.12" | bc -q
<sistpoty|work> (and check the exit value)
<slytherin> sistpoty|work: I am not certain about that. :-( 
<sistpoty|work> (bleh... the output of course)
<slytherin> what if I compare them as string?  ex. " $var" -gt "2.10" ? 
<slytherin> I can not do that. :-( 
<sistpoty|work> slytherin: wouldn't work for 2.100 vs. 2.2 for example
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> how can I recover the files in /var/lib/dpkg? 
<Prezu> Does this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess apply also to universe? 
<\sh> Prezu: yes
<Prezu> \sh: ok, thanks
<slavik> so ... any chance for a firefox3 beta4 package in the gutsy64 repo? 
<\sh> slavik: if then only as backport...and only with a handful luck
<slavik> :(
<\sh> slavik: ask asac or any other member of ubuntu-mozilla team
<slavik> is there a good place to ask? 
<jdong> slavik: yes the backport will be planned once ff3b4 hits hardy
<jdong> slavik: the ff3b3 final backport is basically ready at the moment, I'd like to do one more upgrade test before sending them off for upload
<slavik> jdong: will it be avail today for amd64?  :P
<RainCT> does anyone know how I can recover the file /var/lib/dpkg/available?  slangasek? 
<jdong> slavik: all backports are built for all architectures
<Lamego> RainCT, check https://answers.launchpad.net/dpkg/+question/12631
<geser> RainCT: apt-cache dumpavail and dpkg --update-avail perhaps
<slavik> jdong: I am sure that the 32bit repo has beta3, I reinstalled 64bit gutsy and the repo shows alpha8
<RainCT> Lamego, geser: thanks
<jdong> firefox-3.0 | 3.0~b3~cvs20080101t1000+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 | gutsy-backports/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
<jdong> slavik: ^^ the archive reports it's available on all 3 archs
<nxvl> ScottK: did you take a look at Bug #179790? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179790 in tinyerp-server "postgresql listens on :5432" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179790
<slavik> ÑÐ¼Ð¼
<slavik> http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ is my repo ...
<slavik> ok, weird ...
<slavik> why would synaptic only show alpha8? 
<cody-somerville> persia, ping
<cody-somerville> With qa.ubuntuwire.com down, is there another site that hosts similar information? 
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: oh, about the ghc6 merge... I've briefly looked over the proposed upstream patch, and it should be fine... however it would imho be good, if you could rebuild a few i386 libraries with the new ghc6 in wrong order to see if there is an ABI breakage
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, Okay.  Do you know if I use my PPA, will it use my ghc6 package? 
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, Or will I have to follow the wiki tutorial on how to utilize local packages in builds? 
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: no idea actually, but I guess you could find that out in the build log? 
 * cody-somerville nods. 
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, I'll do that right now. 
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: excellent, thanks! 
<hellboy195> dholbach: around? 
<dholbach> hellboy195: yes
<hellboy195> dholbach: you remember that you unsubscribed u-u-s from circuslinux? 
<dholbach> hellboy195: which bug number? 
<hellboy195> dholbach: bug #198796
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 198796 in circuslinux "Please sync circuslinux 1.0.3-22 from Debian(Unstable)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198796
<hellboy195> dholbach: that was a mistake ;)
<hellboy195> dholbach: you should ACK it and subscribe archive-admins :)
<dholbach> hellboy195: I unsubscribed uus because DktrKranz2 asked you to look into syncing the package
<dholbach> you're free to subscribe uus to the bug again
<mok0> is the corrupt libc6 in the archive fixed? 
<dholbach> mok0: yes
<dholbach> ubuntu2 should fix it
<dholbach> hellboy195: somebody in the team will take care of it
<dholbach> hellboy195: I'm looking into something else right now - if nobody did it until tomorrow morning I'll do it
<mok0>  2.7-9ubuntu2? 
<dholbach> mok0: yes, that's what I'm running here
<hellboy195> dholbach: yes BUTI transformed the bug report to a sync long before you unsubscribed ;)
<hellboy195> *BUT
<mok0> Hmm, that's not yet available from where I'm syncing from
<dholbach> hellboy195: sorry for that then
<mok0> dholbach: thx
<dholbach> hellboy195: no need to get blocked on me :)
<hellboy195> dholbach: ^^. no I just wanted to ask if it was a mistake of yours or mine
<dholbach> ok
<huats> hey Scott
<huats> can you explain me what you mean on bug 193605
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193605 in conduit "Feature Freeze Exception request for Conduit 0.3.8" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193605
<ScottK2> huats: In debian/changelog there are several references to using internal copies of various packages. 
<ScottK2> huats: This is generally bad because it's 2X the code for security support. 
<ScottK2> huats: So you aren't just asked for a new conduit version, you are also adding double copies of a bunch of things. 
<hellboy195> dholbach: then I'm resubscribing u-u-s :)
<dholbach> alright
<ScottK2> huats: Which may be reasonable to do if it provides something really wonderful
<huats> ok
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, What would be a few good packages to include in this test? 
<ScottK2> huats: So I'd like to know (in the bug) how taking this on would really enhance the end user experiend. 
<cody-somerville> siretart, Are there any in particular you think may have problems, etc.? 
<ScottK2> RainCT: Do you have some time to work on an archive testing problem with me? 
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: haskell libraries, that need other haskell libraries as build-dependency (apt-cache rdepends ghc6 | grep lib will give lots to pick from)
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: in particular, haskell-opengl and gtk2hs are bad candidates, since these have object splitting disabled in the ubuntu delta.  all others with other haskell libs as build-deps should be fine
<cody-somerville> siretart, Okay.  I'll build haskell-opnegl and gtk2hs in my ppa with the merged ghc6 package :)
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: nope, not these two, these don't use object-splitting :P
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, Okay.  I understand you now. 
<sistpoty|work> :)
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, Ugh... FTBFS due to chroot issues :/
<huats> ScottK honnestly I don't know, this is a question that I think need to be asked upstream
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: heh
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, Actually, I think it is a known bug. 
<nxvl> ScottK2: did you take a look at Bug #179790? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179790 in tinyerp-server "postgresql listens on :5432" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179790
<sistpoty|work> ScottK2, Hobbsee, TheMuso, norsetto (who doesn't seem to be around): we should really make a decision about the gfortran transition...
<leonel> scottk, scottl2   Checked the last clamav release  0.93rc1   no security bugfixes found   just  bugfixes or enhancements
<cody-somerville> Is it okay for a universe package to suggest a multiverse package? 
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: yes
<ScottK2> sistpoty|work: I've said go for it in at least one bug.   We've started, so we should press on. 
<tuxmaniac> sistpoty|work, if you guys decide on a positive note one of my bug reports gets closed :-)
<sistpoty|work> ScottK2: ok, I just don't want to overrule s.o.  in motu-release since we're talking about a transition here
<ScottK2> Sure
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, I dont mind you doing the merge for gnumeric.  Please go ahead.  and thanks for the initiative
<ScottK2> sistpoty|work: If I understand it though we've already started this transition, so our choices are part done or maybe complete, right? 
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, Are you sure?  You're welcome to do it. 
<sistpoty|work> ScottK2: or revert it (though since iirc ~50% are done, this would seem like the worst option for me)
<ScottK2> sistpoty|work: Right.   So forward is really the only thing to do IMO
<sistpoty|work> ScottK2: same here, and imho best to keep as close to unstable as possible (i.e. even drawing new upstreams in)... but I guess this might be debatable
<ScottK2> sistpoty|work: My suggestion is stop debating and start fixing. 
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> I'll file a bug listing all affected packages tonight
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, I will give it a shot.  Looks like its gonna be some fun and learning. 
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, Okay.  I've done the merge myself so if you change your mind please let me know. 
<mok0> My sbuilder fails because it cannot see my ~/.gnupg directory.  I can I solve this problem? 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Can you please give back evolution-jescs? 
<huats> slytherin: what is wrong with evo-jescs ? 
<slytherin> huats: FTBFS on non0i386 arch
<slytherin> huats: just problem with timing of build.  Should build now
<huats> slytherin: ok
<huats> slytherin: i was wondering since I am the last updater :)
<huats> thanks for the explanation
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<leonel> scottk, Scottk2   Checked the last clamav release  0.93rc1   no security bugfixes found   just  bugfixes or enhancements
<ScottK2> leonel: Thanks
<Laney> ! freezeexception
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about freezeexception - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Laney> bah
<hellboy195> ! FFE
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ffe - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<hellboy195> Laney: :P
<Laney> Does anything have to be done after a FFe for a sync from Debian is confirmed? 
<hellboy195> Laney: bug number? 
<Laney> hellboy195: bug 201494
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201494 in ubuntu "[FFe] Please sync xmonad-contrib (0.6-4) from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201494
<hellboy195> Laney: the 2nd Motu should have subscribed to ubuntu-archive
<smarter> wow, we reached the 200000th bug? 
<ScottK2> hellboy195: motu-release doesn't necessarily do all the same checks ubuntu-universe-sponsors would do.   So if they didn't then uus should be subscribed to review it. 
<hellboy195> ScottK: Just said what I experienced personally :) thx
<Laney> Hmm, but is there anything to review for a sync? 
<pochu> that the package builds fine, installs fine, works fine, doesn't introduce regressions or new dependencies in main...
<pochu> for example :)
<Laney> :P
<Laney> So I should subscribe u-u-s then? 
<Laney> (I did already build + test it)
<zul> I keep forgetting its motu-ff isnt it? 
<mathiaz> zul: what do you mean ? 
<mathiaz> zul: we're in FeatureFreeze now main and universe
<zul> mathiaz: ffe for bacula
<pochu> the team is called motu-release
<mathiaz> zul: motu-release team ? 
<zul> dang thanks
<ScottK2> Laney: Yes.   You should. 
<Laney> ScottK2: Thanks, done
<hellboy195> zul: bacula? 
<zul> hellboy195: yes? 
<hellboy195> zul: I request the sync.  which now needs a FFe
<zul> hellboy195: yes because we added a whole slew of things that is not in debian
<hellboy195> zul: ah Chuck Short :)
<hellboy195> zul: but it's really really late
<zul> hellboy195: its after the beta
<hellboy195> zul: so.  wait for intrepid? 
<zul> hellboy195: no
<hellboy195> zul: :)
<zul> hellboy195: its a feature that is needed for hardy
<hellboy195> zul: are said you we'll do it? 
<zul> hellboy195: excuse me? 
<hellboy195> zul: request the FFe.  sry
<hellboy195> -are + you
<zul> hellboy195: the server team will take care of it, its apart of a MIR that we just started
<hellboy195> zul: sry.  MIR? 
<zul> hellboy195: Main inclusion report
<hellboy195> zul: ah ok, thx
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, hey, the deb diff seems to have a lot of other changes.  Can you please check why?  I ran the merge-genchanges script too
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, ping
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, did you recieve my previous message? 
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, bo
<cody-somerville> *no
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, hey, the deb diff seems to have a lot of other changes.  Can you please check why?  I ran the merge-genchanges script too
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, Your debdiff or mine? 
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, mine.  have updated the bug
<mok0> is there someone here that knows about sbuild? 
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, if I am right, the only file that needed merge attention was control
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, There is something wrong with the debdiff you uploaded. 
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, There are no newlines and I see all sorts of weird characters
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, Regarding your question, the debdiff you generate will show all the changes between our version and the debian version
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, debian/control is not the only file changed by us
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, It was the only file that Merge-o-matic could not merge on its own
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, oh ok
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, I've uploaded my "attempt".  Feel free to take a look at it. 
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, ok i will
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, I've never done a merge of gnumeric before so maybe you could review it and find something I did wrong :)
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, same here too :-)
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, in fact this is my first merge - o - experience
<cody-somerville> tuxmaniac, This might be a difficult merge for your first try
<tuxmaniac> cody-somerville, I just compared the deb diff that I generated.  Its so funny that some "crazy" characters have been introduced in my diff.  Wonder why. 
<tuxmaniac> compared with yours
<cody-somerville> :)
<ScottK2> mok0: persia is the one I know of who uses it regularly. 
<mok0> ScottK: ok, thanks! 
<mok0> I need to compile a package for etch and my etch sbuilder refuses to do anything. 
<ScottK2> Hmmm
<mok0> "unable to get login information for username "mok" at /usr/lib/dpkg/controllib.pl line 64"
<ScottK2> My gutsy pbuilder does a very nice Etch pbuilder. 
<mok0> ScottK2: I just created a whole bunch of sbuilders that use lvm snapshots...
<mok0> The other ones work fine
<mok0> only etch fails :-(
<ScottK2> OK.   Well pbuilder works for me.   Dunno about sbuild. 
<mok0> ScottK: I'll do that for now.  When persia's around I'll ask him
<gpocentek> cody-somerville: pong
<cody-somerville> gpocentek, Can I talk to you in private query? 
<cody-somerville> :)
<gpocentek> cody-somerville: sure
<nekohayo> hey there, I need to try a patch for epiphany, I'm running ubuntu hardy... is there a way for a mortal like me to do that easily? 
<nekohayo> I have no knowledge of package management
<cody-somerville> StevenK, ping.  If I had a package make it in before the FF but got rejected, do I need to get approval from the release team now or is the package still good to upload? 
<nekohayo> actually, I tried compiling it and I get http://pastebin.ca/941463
<ScottK2> cody-somerville: A month later, I think you should ask.   Not a full FFe, but a bug explaining the situation. 
<lars> Hi :)  Anyone care to review new REVU upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sun-javadb ? 
<lars> quit
<mirrado> Hi
<mirrado> Is it possible to ubuntu Motu team to make a backport of the package nvidia-glx-new from hardy to gutsy? 
<ScottK2> ! backports | mirrado
<ubotu> mirrado: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also ! packaging
<mirrado> Thanks ScottK2
<RainCT> how can I request a package removal?  just file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<RainCT> ? 
<geser> yes
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<geser> and check for rdepends and rbuilddepends for every binary package the source builds
<geser> and if the package got also removed from Debian I usually mention the Debian removal bug and the reason
<geser> just curious: which package do you want removed? 
<nixternal> Gnome :p
 * nixternal hides
<ScottK2> RainCT: Got a minute
<Fujitsu> Morning all. 
<emgent> heya Fujitsu :)
<RainCT> ScottK2: sure
<RainCT> geser: sorry, hadn't see your further replies.  it's mozilla-firefox-adblock
<RainCT> geser: which has been deprecated by adblock-plus.  but I've just seen that it's still in NEW, so I can't fill the removal request yet :(
<ScottK2> RainCT: python-central 0.6 just got uploaded to the archives
<CyberMatt> could someone take a look at my feature freeze exception request https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inspircd/+bug/201941
<ScottK2> RainCT: It moves some files and so packages that wrongly depended on interal python-central file arrangements will now FTBFS
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201941 in inspircd "FreezeException request-- Sync with  Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: Wasn't that done a few weeks ago? 
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: No.   Just two days. 
<CyberMatt> i think i did it correctly
<Fujitsu> I had to change a few packages that I needed to be rebuilt...
<Fujitsu> Arrrrgh, so it's been done again? 
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: Yes. 
<Fujitsu> Where are they now? 
<Fujitsu> (and why the heck is this happening a month before release!?) 
<Fujitsu> [insert cursing here]
<ScottK2> RainCT: So I was wondering if you would be up for modifying puilder-dist to take a package list and build them insequence? 
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: Same reason we've doing late uploads of libc6? 
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: To break the world in a way that's completely untestable? 
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: OK.   You're right.   The reason for python-central isn't THAT good. 
<RainCT> ScottK2: ok, will add that option :)
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: I don't know that there's more breakage than you already encountered
<Fujitsu> Is there an easy way to check if packages will FTBFS, or do we need to rebuild all of them? 
<ScottK2> Fujitsu: doko had a suggestion.   Let me check my irc logs
<Fujitsu> There aren't too many rdepends, so they can probably be rebuilt in a few hours. 
<RainCT> ScottK2: btw, since when do you like pbuilder-dist? :) 
<ScottK2> RainCT: I like it when it works
<ScottK2> RainCT: I use a version of it myself. 
<RainCT> that remembers me.. if anyone is bored, pbuilder-dist from the bazaar branch (Python rewrite) could need some testing :)
<ScottK2> I just never seem to have much luck with the released version. 
<RainCT> (or rather don't test it yet ;))
<KasimirGabert> would somebody be able to help me with REVU?   All of my uploads are being rejected...
<Nightrose> KasimirGabert: are you part of the required launchpad group and is your pgp key uploaded on launchpad and synced to revu? 
<KasimirGabert> it has been over a month on Launchpad
<KasimirGabert> so I would imagine it has been synced
<KasimirGabert> and I am part of the group
<KasimirGabert> I don't understand it...
<KasimirGabert> if you could help me, that would be awesome
<Nightrose> are you sure you are uploading to revu? 
 * Nightrose didnÂ´t the first time ;-)
<KasimirGabert> ah :) yes, and I talked to somebody yesterday who saw all of the uploaded files, they were just all rejected
<KasimirGabert> I am running 'dput revu file_name_whatever.changes'
<KasimirGabert> and it says that it has been uploaded successfully
<Nightrose> ok then you need someone with revu karma to look at it
<KasimirGabert> ah... :) thanks anyways
<Nightrose> sure
<KasimirGabert> do you know anyone with revu karma? 
<ScottK2> KasimirGabert: As I said yesterday you probably need to talk to sistpoty.   He's not here right now. 
<Nightrose> persia and Hobbsee maybe? 
<ScottK2> Possibly
<KasimirGabert> ScottK2: okay, I was trying again because it should be around evening in Europe... but okay :)
<KasimirGabert> persia and Hobbsee? 
<pochu> KasimirGabert: was it *_all.changes or *_<some_arch>.changes ? 
<KasimirGabert> xboardloader_0.1.4-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<KasimirGabert> should it be _all ? 
<pochu> hrmm, no that's fine, sorry
<KasimirGabert> pochu: thanks :)
<pochu> I guess it's properly signed? :) 
<emgent> heya people
<KasimirGabert> it asks me for my pgp key password
<KasimirGabert> I enter it, and it appears to work
<KasimirGabert> and says properly signed as well
<pochu> that should be fine then
<KasimirGabert> hm... could it be that packages were initially bad, and therefore are continuing to be rejected? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: Hi.  I'm that one from yesterday :)
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: hello! 
<KasimirGabert> I guess this is still an odd problem... that needs some 'karma' from the REVU creators? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: I looked at two of the rejected packages and their changelog entry was wrong (one said unstable and another one gutsy; it should be hardy).  I don't think that it would get rejected because of this, but if you haven't done so you could try uploading one with "hardy" as target in the changelog
<RainCT> ScottK2: do you need it today? 
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: will do... is this legal even if I am developing on gutsy? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: yes, of course. 
<Lamego> as long it builds :)
<KasimirGabert> okay, thanks :)
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: what isn't ok is targeting new packages at gutsy as they aren't allowed anymore :)
<RainCT> *allowed to enter there
<KasimirGabert> ahh okay... so this is a new package only for hardy then, that makes sense
<KasimirGabert> E: xboardloader_0.1.4-1ubuntu1_amd64.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<KasimirGabert> is that ignorable? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: yes.  actually it would be good if you updated lintian and linda to hardy's (I think they work without problems on Gutsy)
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: okay, does this mean downloading the files from Ubuntu's archive?  or is there a way to only get a few hardy files? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: if you don't have hardy's binary repositories in your sources.list you can just get the .deb's from http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/<package name>
<KasimirGabert> okay, doing that :)
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: okay, it should be updated with a new changelog
<KasimirGabert> hm... lintian was installed, but linda apparently needs some hardy specific stuff
<KasimirGabert> (python-support)
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: I also had two keys on Launchpad, I deactivated one of them
<KasimirGabert> (the one which I am not signing with)
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: ok, rejected again, but I got the error message
<KasimirGabert> any leads? 
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: it doesn't find the public key (http://paste.ubuntu.com/5661/plain)
<KasimirGabert> hm...
<KasimirGabert> Contact details                                       Email:                                                                                                             kasimir@kgprog.com                                                                                                                            Wiki:                                       https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KasimirGabert                                                 
<KasimirGabert> from Launchpad
<RainCT> so for some reason it didn't take it
<KasimirGabert> they are the same key... 38065AF4
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: is it possible to have the keyrings synced again? 
<RainCT> doing so now
<KasimirGabert> thanks :)
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: please try uploading again
<KasimirGabert> okay
<RainCT> (I imported your key manually)
<KasimirGabert> ah, thanks! 
<KasimirGabert> did it work? 
<RainCT> yes, but let's see if it accepts your packages now..
<KasimirGabert> okay
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: yeha
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: thank you very much! :) 
<KasimirGabert> cool, I see it there
<KasimirGabert> now I just need to wait for the freeze to be over :)
 * RainCT hopes the key doesn't get removed with the next automatic sync :)
<RainCT> KasimirGabert: you're welcome :)
<KasimirGabert> RainCT: thanks, really, this is why Ubuntu will continue to become better; excellent support for fledgling developers! 
<RainCT> :)
<KasimirGabert> well, I'll be heading off, thanks again everyone
<RainCT> in what target should dh_install calls be in a debian/rules file without cdbs? 
<RainCT> ah, never mind :)
<nxvl> DktrKranz2: around? 
<nxvl> DktrKranz2: i have merged Bug #179790 , bug #199487 and Bug #133187 as you requested
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179790 in tinyerp-server "postgresql listens on :5432" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179790
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199487 in tinyerp-server "Please sponsor tinyerp-server 4.2.0-1ubuntu1 into hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199487
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133187 in tinyerp-server "TinyERP server doesn't have log file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133187
<ScottK2> RainCT: No.   I don't need it today. 
<RainCT> ScottK2: well, I'll do it now, but as a separate script (at least for now, might integrate it into pbuilder-dist later)
<RainCT> ScottK2: what should it use to download the sources? 
<ScottK2> RainCT: a.u.c I would assume
<ScottK2> If you meant the source
<ScottK2> If you meant how to download them, maybe python-apt and apt-get source. 
<ScottK2> dget would also work. 
<RainCT> ScottK2: a.u.c? 
<pochu> archive.ubuntu.com
<RainCT> ah
* emgent changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze is underway.   Review your changes.  | Let's clear http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ for Alpha 6! 
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetaFreeze is underway.   Review your changes.   Beware of packages that are on universe derivative CDs. 
<RainCT> ScottK2: well, will finish that tomorrow :P
<RainCT> good night
<civija> hy people! 
<civija> i'm having trouble with update-maintainer script from ubuntu-dev-tools
<civija> it keeps telling me: Not an Ubuntu package or already maintained by the Ubuntu team. 
<Laney> civija: What does the Maintainer: field say in debian/control? 
<civija> for example, gnu hello package ...
<civija> Maintainer: Santiago Vila <sanvila@debian.org>
<mok0_> !  maintainer > civija
<civija> mok0_: should't update-maintainer script change Maintainer to XSBC-Original-Maintainer? 
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-14
<mok0_> civija: It doesn't look like it -- unless you also change the section to contain "universe"
<Laney> fwiw, I just tried it with the hello package and it worked fine
<Laney> updated the maintainer to ubuntu-core-dev
<mok0_> Laney: try the --section switch...
<Laney> mok0_: I just shut down my eee :(
<mok0_> Laney:  --section=universe
<mok0_> eeek
<slangasek> mok0_: update-maintainer *should* change Maintainer to XSBC-Original-Maintainer, any time that it succeeds in doing anything
<mok0_> :-)
<slangasek> though sometimes you have to tell it which section your package is going to, yes
<Adri2000> civija: does the most recent version of the package (ie.  the first line in debian/changelog) contain 'ubuntu' ? 
<civija> Adri2000: no
<blueyed> I'd like to change the versioning of a kernel module package to use the kernel ABI in the first part, but the package is currently at version 15 already.  Looks like I need an epoche, correct? 
<Adri2000> civija: that's why it won't change the maintainer then
<civija> Adri2000: so i should first run dch -i, write change ..., and then run update-maintainer? 
<crimsun> blueyed: e.g., or a suffix appended with +
<Adri2000> civija: yes
<civija> Adri2000: ok, tnx
<civija> i'll try that
<blueyed> crimsun: i.e. 15+2.6.24-12.1? ( 15 is the current version)
<crimsun> blueyed: that's the idea, though I suppose I tend to match the 12.x portion against the headers, so I think 12.22? 
<crimsun> blueyed: (though, if you're tweaking it, that's up to you)
<blueyed> crimsun: well.. I've thought that it wouldn't be important for the package and therefore I use my revision there at the end. 
<crimsun> blueyed: fair enough. 
<blueyed> It should get moved to linux-ubuntu-modules anyway in the long term I think, so..
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK2> heya bddebian. 
<bddebian> Hi ScottK2
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: ? 
<Hobbsee> (evolution-jescs given back)
<Legendario> hi.  Pbuiler is returning me an error message i just can't understand why... It says it can't install libjack-dev
<Legendario> does anyone know a possible reason for it? 
<StevenK> You don't have universe enabled in your pbuilder environment? 
<Legendario> StevenK, how can I enable it? 
<emgent> uhm, strange problem.. when i try to edit control and add Maintainer, when i debuild, change Maintainer with original..
<emgent> some idea? 
<StevenK> emgent: There's a debian/control.in file? 
<emgent> phpmyadmin package..
<emgent> uhm just a moment
<StevenK> Legendario: Um, add universe to your components and pbuilder update with --overwrite-config
<Hobbsee> ! pbuilder | Legendario
<ubotu> Legendario: pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment.  To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Hobbsee> Legendario: actually follow ^&
<emgent> StevenK: no only control
<Legendario> hum, no.  There is only a debian/control file, not a debian/control.in
<emgent> trye
<emgent> *true*
<emgent> StevenK: other idea? : Â°
<StevenK> emgent: Then I'd need to read a build log
<emgent> i saw that in debdiff
<emgent> when i run debuild, cleaned my edit in debian/control file
<emgent> strange..
<StevenK> emgent: Yes, so something in the build process is changing it.  So I'd need to read a build log to point out what is doing it. 
<Legendario> ok, so, i had to edit my ~/pbuilderrc file, right?  Thanks guys
<emgent> StevenK: i think this "yada rebuild control"
<StevenK> Nooooooooooooo
 * StevenK runs screaming
<RAOF> yada has a "Please break my builds in hard to track, near-random ways" option? 
<StevenK> Yes.  That is its default mode of operation
 * RAOF shudders
 * RAOF gets around to actually _filing_ his "sensors-applet does nothing but segfault" bug. 
<emgent> uhm...
<adorablepuppy> Hi. 
<emgent> StevenK: some idea to bypass yada rebuild ? 
<StevenK> emgent: Don't use yada.  yada is bad. 
<LaserJock> I thought it was your favorite? 
<emgent> StevenK: is in the package, i only applied security patch
<emgent> hy cody
<cody-somerville> heya emgent :)
<ScottK2> emgent: Since it's yada, I'd suggest skip the maintainer mangling, explain to the security team why you did it, and then let them figure it out if they really care. 
<emgent> i will do, thanks :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't wind the poor chap up
<ScottK2> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> good afternoon
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heh
<ScottK2> Good to seeing you around.   I've been missing your smiling face. 
 * ajmitch isn't here
<ScottK2> ajmitch: While your not here, is your RC bug tracker by chance running elsewhere too? 
<ajmitch> nope
 * ajmitch has no static IP address to serve it from
<LaserJock> is ubuntuwire still down?? 
<ScottK2> LaserJock: AFAIK yes.   Still no imbrandon
 * ScottK2 has had the flu this week and didn't get around to calling him again. 
 * ajmitch hasn't seen imbrandon on irc for a long time
<ajmitch> partly because I don't usually watch irc now
<ScottK2> Well it is nice to see you again even if you aren't here. 
 * ajmitch is usually in channel, at least
<ajmitch> just not often talking to people
 * ajmitch would think that the rc bug tracker thing isn't as useful now anyway
<LaserJock> ajmitch is a stalker
<ajmitch> true story, that
<ScottK2> ajmitch: Why not? 
 * ajmitch has been mercilessly stalking laserjock, watching his every movement
<ajmitch> ScottK2: because of other lists of bugs that should say similar things
<ScottK2> ajmitch: OK.   Maybe I need to go look around for other lists then.   Your is the one I always used. 
<ajmitch> that 'really fix-it' list would help a bit, if the bug link has been set in launchpad
<rhpot1991> ScottK ScottK2 ping
 * ajmitch would need to find somewhere sane to put the rc bugs list 
<rhpot1991> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+bug/202049
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202049 in gutsy-backports "Please backport new MythTV themes from Hardy" [Undecided,New]
<rhpot1991> superm1 informed me that you wanted to see those tested seperately
<LaserJock> I'm getting the feeling that Hardy's gonna get release without quite a few good new upstream release and bug fixes
<LaserJock> things are really moving fast at this point
<ajmitch> that's expected
<ScottK2> rhpot1991: Yes.   I'd also like to see the depwait for the basic mythtv backport cleared up too. 
<LaserJock> yeah, just a bit disappointing
 * ajmitch is going to wander home now, nice talking to you again :)
<LaserJock> cya ajmitch
<superm1> ScottK2, sorry i've been busy with some other stuff than to look into the details of why that happened on the non standard arch's
<superm1> i'll get to it soon
<ScottK2> ajmitch: See ya.   Thanks for stopping in. 
 * ScottK2 wonders if he highlights on php? 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch! 
<Hobbsee> emgent: then fix the package. 
<emgent> yep
<emgent> first I'd like talk with keescook
<emgent> then i will do :P
<emgent> (hi Hobbsee) :)
<Hobbsee> hiya
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, Would you do me a big fat favour and regenerate and upload xubuntu-meta for me? :) 
<superm1> ScottK2, it looks like they are sorting themselves out some how
<superm1> only lpia is failing now
<superm1> and its because of missing libx264-dev
<superm1> which is in gutsy multiverse...
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes? 
<superm1> just not on lpia
<slangasek> Hobbsee: I'll take care of the above xubuntu-meta update
<cody-somerville> slangasek, thanks :)
<ScottK2> superm1: OK.   Well that's progress.   Is libx264-dev actually missing no lpia? 
<superm1> ScottK2, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/x264/+builds
<superm1> it failed to build on lpia
<ScottK2> looking
<superm1> on gutsy at least
<superm1> worked on hardy though
<superm1> ah i see why
<ScottK2> superm1: Why? 
<superm1> in hardy it has nasm [i386 lpia] as build depends
<Hobbsee> slangasek: thanks
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hello
<superm1> failed due to missing nasm in gutsy
<superm1> on lpia
<ScottK2> superm1: Maybe an SRU then? 
<superm1> well i guess that really depends on how important mythtv on lpia is to gutsy
<ScottK2> Probably not very. 
<ScottK2> But I like to see things complete. 
<superm1> i gathered as much :)
<ScottK2> It's not such a big deal, but if it's an easy fix it'd be nice. 
<ScottK2> superm1: Let me know when you think the plugins are ready to go...
<superm1> so i'm not sure the extra effort to right that is worth it.   If someone complains that they want their mythtv 0.21 on an lpia gutsy (who has those other than developers for moblin stuff)?,  i'll take care of it
<superm1> ScottK2, you mean the themes? 
<ScottK2> Yeah'
<ScottK2> That
<superm1> the themes look fine to me, rhpot1991 has a gutsy box that i asked him to do the backport to his ppa and install to
<superm1> none of them failed to build or anything similar
<superm1> so i'd say not a worry there
<ScottK2> rhpot1991: Did you finish testing them all? 
 * ScottK2 notices the time, remembers he has the flu, and decides to go to bed. 
<ScottK2> Good night all. 
<superm1> ScottK2, yeah as indicated in the bug, they all built and installed
<superm1> see ya though
<ScottK2> pm me the bug and I'll look at it tomorrow. 
<superm1> alrighty
<superm1> night
<Legendario> i am having the following error message: error: could not create '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/blueman': Permission denied
<Legendario> what am i supposed to do? 
<slangasek> Legendario: what are you *trying* to do? 
<slangasek> building a package? 
<Legendario> yes
<slangasek> you need to tell the upstream rules to install to a subdirectory of debian/ instead of to the root filesystem
<slangasek> I don't know what the convention is for python modules; for stuff that uses autoconf, the convention is make DESTDIR=debian/tmp install
<Amaranth> i think it's python setup.py --destdir debian/tmp install
<Amaranth> or something
<Amaranth> i dunno, python project that use setup.py should die :)
<TheMuso> cody-somerville: I can do xubuntu-meta if nobody else has started on it already. 
<RAOF> The convention for python modules depends on what debhelper you're using, pretty much. 
<cody-somerville> TheMuso, slangasek said he'd do it. 
<cody-somerville> slangasek, Have you started on xubuntu-meta yet? :) 
<TheMuso> oh ok
<slangasek> cody-somerville: started dput, yes
<cody-somerville> TheMuso, Okay.  Thanks anyhow :)
<TheMuso> cody-somerville: np
<superm1> slangasek, what to do if a package already in gutsy-backports just needs to be rebuilt?   Should I file another backport bug, or can you just press a magical dch -i "no changes, just rebuilding"? 
<slangasek> superm1: I don't have any magical buttons for that; I think a sourceful upload on your part is going to be the most straightforward
<superm1> slangasek, directly to gutsy-backports, or where to? 
<slangasek> superm1: yes
<superm1> slangasek, okay i'll take care of that
<superm1> thanks
<slangasek> superm1: oh, are you in the backporters group?   If not you probably should clear it with jdong or ScottK first
<Legendario> RAOF, what do you mean by the convention for python modules depends on what debhelper you're using? 
<superm1> slangasek, no i'm not in the backporters group. 
<superm1> let me do a test build then and put it in a proper bug so that they dont need to think much
<slangasek> superm1: right :)
<Legendario> should i edit the setup.py file or a file in the debian folder? 
<Amaranth> I thought backports were automatic copies of hardy source packages
<slangasek> there are sourceful backports as well
<slangasek> Legendario: normally you should not have to edit setup.py.   I think the suggestion Amaranth gave you first looks most promising
<Legendario> slangsek, sorry.  but i didn't understand what to do exactly
<Legendario> could you please be more specific? 
<Legendario> slangasek
<slangasek> Legendario: you know that debian/rules is the file that controls how packages are built? 
<slangasek> Legendario: you need to edit that file; either in a straightforward way based on Amaranth's suggestion, or perhaps in a non-obvious way if you're using cdbs
<Legendario> slangasek, this is a line in my debia/rules: $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/blueman install
<Legendario> is this what i was supposed to do? 
<slangasek> I don't know
<Legendario> or do i have to add something else? 
<slangasek> you haven't given any context about your package, that I can see
<slangasek> I can't tell you what's right or not without ever seeing the package in question
<Legendario> slangasek, well, it is a python software but it has a make file and a setup.py file
<slangasek> I can tell you that line will pass the DESTDIR variable to the upstream makefile when calling 'make install'.   I don't know whether that will do the right thing for this upstream software. 
<Legendario> should i substitue the $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/blueman install, for python setup.py --destdir debian/tmp
<Legendario> ? 
<RAOF> Legendario: What I meant was: where you want the modules to end up depends on whether you're using pysupport or pycentral. 
<Legendario> RAOF, i don't understand a thing about python, so need straighter directions.  Does it help?  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59562/
<RAOF> Legendario: That doesn't have enough context to be very useful.   debian/rules would be good, as would be information about what you're actually trying to package and how to build it (can you build it without trying to make a package?) 
<Legendario> ok
<Legendario> RAOF, i don't think this is going to help much, since it is a normal debian/rules file
<Legendario> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/59564/
<RAOF> Legendario: Right, so it's practically a dh-make template. 
<RAOF> Legendario: So, the other question remains.   Can you actually build this program without trying to package it? 
<RAOF> If you can't do that, you've got no hope of packaging it :)
<Legendario> RAOF, i didn't try to build the source.  You can take a look on the program site: http://blueman.tuxfamily.org/
<RAOF> Legendario: Heh.   So, a fundamental part of packaging is to encapsulate the build processes of the thousands of packages we have.   If you don't know how to build it, you can't package it :)
<RAOF> And, that website ( http://blueman.tuxfamily.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=60 ) tells me you're building it wrong. 
<Legendario> RAOF, what am i supposed to do? 
<RAOF> Well... "to install run sudo python setup.py install". 
<RAOF> So your debian/rules is going to have to call setup.py at some point :)
<RAOF> What you actually want to do is to work out what parameters their setup.py takes, what the build actually does (ie: if it builds any arch-dependent code such as shared libraries, you'll probably need to call setup.py once for each python version, etc)
<cody-somerville> slangasek, how is the xubuntu-meta upload going? 
<slangasek> cody-somerville: well enough, aside from me forgetting to accept it from the queue
<cody-somerville> slangasek, :)
<Legendario> RAOF, i could do it.  thanks RAOF
<Legendario> could do it.  if someone can review it, i would apreciate it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=blueman
<dholbach> good morning
<tonyyarusso> Someone care to remind me of the "right" way to do a diff for a small (like 6-character) change to a source package?   Something like diff -rN somesuch I think. 
<dholbach> diff -ruN? 
<tonyyarusso> That's the one. 
<dholbach> rock! :) 
<tonyyarusso> I also need a little bit of versioning advice. 
<tonyyarusso> I'm dealing with nvu --> kompozer, which basically amounts to a renaming as far as our users are concerned, but they have different versioning schemes.   The version of nvu in the repos is 1.0-0ubuntu4 and 1.0final-2ubuntu2 for dapper and edgy, respectively,
<tonyyarusso> while the version of kompozer is 0.7.10-0ubuntu3.   I need to make the virtual package 'nvu' provided by the kompozer source package such that any users with nvu installed will be upgraded to kompozer. 
<tonyyarusso> So basically, I a) need some scheme for making virtual packages have a different version than their source package, and b) need a suggestion for a version higher than 1.0 that I can assign it. 
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: any idea how to approach that? 
<dholbach> you'll need to add an epoch
<dholbach> (1:0.7.10-0ubuntu3)
<dholbach> do we
<dholbach> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<tonyyarusso> readin'
<dholbach> do we get that package from debian? 
<dholbach> if so we should coordinate the epoch change with debian
<dholbach> it might permanently prevent us from syncing if our version is higher than the one in debian
<dholbach> 5.6.12 Version
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: It does not yet exist in Debian.   (I'm hoping to have a chance to start addressing that next week)
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> so adding an epoch should be fine
<tonyyarusso> So I apply the epoch change to the entire source package I take it? 
<dholbach> you add it to the version in your debian/changelog entry
<tonyyarusso> (do epochs show in things like apt-cache policy?) 
<tonyyarusso> gotcha
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ LC_ALL=C apt-cache policy gthumb
<dholbach> gthumb:
<dholbach>   Installed: 3:2.10.6-0ubuntu1.1
<dholbach>   Candidate: 3:2.10.6-0ubuntu1.1
<dholbach>   Version table:
<dholbach>  *** 3:2.10.6-0ubuntu1.1 0
<dholbach> ...
<tonyyarusso> so 1:0.7* > [presumed 0:]1.0*
<dholbach> yes
<tonyyarusso> It never ceases to amaze me how many things the dpkg people already thought of. 
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1:0.7 gt 1.0 && echo true
<dholbach> true
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$
<dholbach> yeah, that's right :-)
<dholbach> the shoulders of giants :)
<tonyyarusso> hehe
<elmargol> Does a printing JOB run as user? 
<elmargol> If i try to print something i get D [14/Mar/2008:10:33:21 +0100] [Job 35] Error: /usr/Brother/inf/brFAX1940CNrc :cannot open file !! 
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: So do I need to touch _anything_ other than debian/changelog for this? 
<dholbach> do the normal update you intended to do, make all the changes necessary, then add the epoch
<dholbach> that should be it
<tonyyarusso> The epoch issue is the only thing I'm addressing today, so yeah. 
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: oh, one thing though - should I bump the ubuntu version, ie 1:0.7.10-0ubuntu4, or leave it as 1:0.7.10-0ubuntu3? 
<dholbach> as it's a new upstream version, I'd say 1:0.7.10-0ubuntu1
<tonyyarusso> Oh.   I guess that makes sense. 
<dholbach> ROCK
<tonyyarusso> Paper? 
<tonyyarusso> So something like "diff -ruN kompozer-0.7.10/ sourced_for_diff/kompozer-0.7.10/ > debdiff.txt", and attach debdiff.txt to the bug? 
<dholbach> you can use     debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<tonyyarusso> And iirc, that's since I only made changes to debian/, but diff -ruN would be needed if there were any changes in the actual source - is that right? 
<tonyyarusso> or same thing both ways? 
<dholbach> you don't need to keep two directories if you run debdiff on the .dsc files
<dholbach> but you can use diff -ruN too
<tonyyarusso> gotcha
<tonyyarusso> All righty, "should" all be set to go at Bug #200349. 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 200349 in kompozer "Versioning for nvu virtual package wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200349
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: errrrm
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: crud, what'd I do wrong? 
<dholbach> ahhhhh, now I understand
<dholbach> excusez-moi :)
<tonyyarusso> yay! 
<tonyyarusso> Does that mean I'm not getting ratted out today?   :P
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: uploaded
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: sweetness - thanks a bunch! 
 * tonyyarusso checks off one of the todo items, goes to test the bugs he has "needs info"
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: weird... upload was rejected - I'l try again
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: odd
<tonyyarusso> any kind of useful message? 
<dholbach> "MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive...."
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: I'll try ubuntu4 instead and see if that works
<tonyyarusso> that might be it
<dholbach> but that'd be weird
<dholbach> tonyyarusso: seems the right thing to do is the ubuntu4 upload
<tonyyarusso> dholbach: all righty then.   Not quite sure why, but whatever works. 
<dholbach> look at the generated dsc file
<dholbach> it says:
<dholbach> Files:
<dholbach>  42e0d7dddb19a7db5315906ea7c29cbd 806 web optional kompozer_0.7.10-0ubuntu1.dsc
<dholbach>  b387cd9e1328c8c11517cd59d9b2be32 23882 web optional kompozer_0.7.10-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Colons aren't always safe to use in filenames. 
<dholbach> these files already were accepted by the buildd with different md5sums
<Fujitsu> Epochs aren't present in the filenames. 
<tonyyarusso> I see. 
<jsgotangco> hey dholbach long time no chat
<dholbach> hey jsgotangco
<dholbach> jsgotangco: how are you doing? 
<jsgotangco> not bad just busy lately with all these travels and deadlines
<dholbach> I can imagine
 * dholbach hugs jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> heh
<Iulian> Hey
 * Hobbsee waves
 * Hobbsee points at jsgotangco - it's spam! 
<jsgotangco> lol
<zul> ,prmomg
<zul> ugh...morning
<\sh> moins zul
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<theseinfeld> hi
<Hobbsee> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi Hobbsee
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee, ScottK, TheMuso: bug 201962 for gfortran transition... opinions? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201962 in petsc "gfortran transition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201962
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: all packages in the bug need to be transitioned, but I cannot really remember how many new upstream versions there are (nor did I look out for these too hard). 
<mok0> sistpoty|work: The gfortran transition is a LOT of work, because it might entail more than just changing the packaging.  I've sometimes had to work hard to get a program to compile under gfortran. 
<Fujitsu> mok0: Debian has done the vast majority already. 
<Fujitsu> That's where I've got most of the bits that I've done (which was just finishing stuff that doko had started). 
<mok0> Well, the list on LP is still very long
<sistpoty|work> mok0: yes, there should be only 2-3 packages not done in debian left
<Fujitsu> It was made more difficult by the fact that they all FTBFS due to one of doko's other changes. 
<mok0> sistpoty|work: so it's mostly merging? 
<sistpoty|work> mok0: I hope mostly syncing :)
<mok0> ok... phew
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, The test builds were successful. 
<Fujitsu> sistpoty|work: Are there any more than mopac7 and its rdepends (libghemical, so also ghemical) that aren't done in Debian? 
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, ghc6 is ready for upload :)
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: excellent!  I'll look in sponsoring ghc6 tonight, once I'm home
 * sistpoty|work looks
<sistpoty|work> Fujitsu: libextutils-f77-perl w.o.  patch, some more with a patch in BTS (5-8, depends on if we want to follow unstable removals as well)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty|work: Still, not too bad, and they might have fixed them within a couple of weeks. 
<sistpoty|work> Fujitsu: yes
<cody-somerville> jono, ping
<jono> cody-somerville: hey
<jono> cody-somerville: skype? 
<cody-somerville> jono, Sounds good. 
<cody-somerville> jono, Just let me do a sound test
 * cody-somerville sighs.  
<cody-somerville> I get it to work last night and ofcourse it stops working today.  One second, a reboot should fix it
<hellboy195> dholbach: around? 
<mok0> How do you make use of the crash_report that is attached to some bugs? 
<dholbach> hellboy195: yes
<hellboy195> dholbach: I edited the debdiff.  And it seems that it's only a newline missing, right?  electricsheep
<dholbach> hellboy195: searching the bug
<hellboy195> dholbach: bug #201417
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201417 in electricsheep "Merge electricsheep 2.6.8-9 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201417
<dholbach> hellboy195: alright
<hellboy195> dholbach: I added a newline after line 214 and it seems to work
<hellboy195> dholbach: make a new debdiff or will you try at you own? 
<dholbach> I tried it and it seems to work
<hellboy195> dholbach: ok.  sry again.  I edited the debdiff and removed the useless entries ,...
<dholbach> hellboy195: uploaded
<hellboy195> dholbach: thank you :)
<dholbach> brb
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jpatrick> bddebian: hey
<bddebian> Hello jpatrick
<\sh> if anyone is interessted, I uploaded php5-amfext to my ppa....
<elmargol> I have an application who gives this message "Can't find xulrunner-xpcom, mozilla-xpcom or firefox-xpcom"
<elmargol> I can not find a xpcom pakage :(
<Lamego> firefox-dev or libxul-dev ? 
<elmargol> ahh libxul-dev
<elmargol> thx a lot
<Lamego> np, is just a guess
<\sh> oh hell...I just hacked the best memory profiling tool ever
<\sh> nixternal: lol...chatting over twitter is even more sick ;)
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> it took me a second to realize just who you were :)
<nixternal> then you said bad old Germany and I knew right away
<\sh> nixternal: lol...
<\sh> nixternal: but there is a bed waiting for you ;)
<nixternal> I have been watching these shows on PBS here where they go through and talk about different countries in Europe..there is a person talking about the different things, but the video is nothing more than high definition flyover from a helicoptor
<nixternal> Germany, the countryside, is exactly what I invision as my dream location for living
<nixternal> the countryside of France is beautiful too
<\sh> nixternal: oh good to know...french frontier is just less then an hour drive from my place ;) actually it's only 2 km to the Rhine and you can see france already ;)
<\sh> nixternal: if you have a motorized boat, you could be there in less then 10 mins ;)
<nixternal> I gotta get away from mansions, SUVs, and O'Hare airport :)
<nixternal> right now, I live 30 minutes outside of the city (Chicago), and when we moved here back in the 80s, it was all country...now it is all part of the city/suburb life and it isn't my cup of tea anymore
<slytherin> dholbach: I was trying to fix the evolution-scalix package.  I have patched the configure.in and configure script and it goes past configuration problem.  But it fails in actual compilation.  I am not able to figure out what the problem is as I am not very good with C. Do you think you can take it further if you have got time? 
<Ubulette> in case someone missed it: "Policy checker linda removed from testing/unstable".  See http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.announce/1187
<slytherin> I wonder why. :-) 
<Ubulette> maybe because of the previous article: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.announce/1186 "Lintian has been under fairly active development for the past couple of years"
<slytherin> Ok I found the answer in the article itself
<mok0> ScottK: ping
<huats> ScottK: ping too :)
<DktrKranz2> geser: I had the chance to test new dietlibc on amd64, it worked fine and I uploaded new revision.  I'm going to manage rebuilds soon, please tell me if you want to proceed with bglibs. 
<geser> DktrKranz2: good to hear.  I'll look at bglibs. 
<DktrKranz2> There are two bugs related to bglibs, 184625 and 163774.  They will hopefully be solved. 
<nxvl> happy Ãpi day! 
<nxvl> i mean, good morning
<geser> yes, both could be fixed with it
<geser> nxvl: Hi
<nxvl> geser: :D
<geser> you too a happy Ï day
<nxvl> DktrKranz2: dod you take a look at Bug #179790 ?  i have merged with other 2 bugs as you requested
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 179790 in tinyerp-server "postgresql listens on :5432" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179790
<DktrKranz2> nxvl: thanks for merging.  I haven't had a look at it yet, yesterday I was mostly out, but I'll probably have a look in the weekend after set up VMs again on Sid. 
<geser> nxvl: does the logfile from tinyerp get rotated? 
<nxvl> DktrKranz2: ok, thnx
<nxvl> geser: dunno, i just apply a patch someone send
<nxvl> geser: but, that's syslog work
<nxvl> geser: not tinyerp ones
<nxvl> one*
<nxvl> i haven't tested that far
<geser> nxvl: syslog doesn't do the logrotation, bug logrotate and only for those logfiles it's configured for
<geser> without some logrotation the logfile may increase in size till the partition is full
<\sh> anyone working on pushing anjuta 2.4.x into universe? 
<huats> \sh: actually pochu and I are going to work on it
<\sh> huats: cool :)
<huats> but if you want to ask the sync yourself I have no objections :)
<\sh> huats: na I just saw that debian had already a new version....and we had 2.3.5 packaged ourselfs :)
<\sh> huats: is it already usable as python ide? ,) 
<huats> \sh: don't know...
<\sh> that reminds me to file a FFe for claws-mail still
<huats> but it was on my ToTRY list :)
<huats> I am planning to work on it on monday
<jroes_> is the lighttpd package up to date for the latest security patches released in the feisty repos? 
<jroes_> the version tag is an older version, but I don't know if it was just patched without updating the version number or something...
<\sh> jroes_: lighttpd is patched with the latest security patches...don't think 1.4.19 is better then our 1.4.xx version in feisty :)
<\sh> jroes_: emgent is the dude who does all those shiny security things for lighttpd :)
<jroes_> ok, just checking :)
<\sh> jroes_: you can always read the changelog
<\sh> jroes_: if something is missing, we are a) working on it, or b) we are busy with other security stuff/new funny stuff...it's universe ;)
<jroes_> good point, I should have googled for the changelog (or is there even a way to see the changelog in apt?   I bet there is and I'll find it here shortly :))
<\sh> jroes_: it's on da launchpad
<jroes_> excellent, thanks \sh :)
<\sh> jroes_: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd/
<\sh> jroes_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd/
<\sh> much betrter
<\sh> jroes_: and if you need new crack for lighty ... just use 1.4.19 from hardy on a test system
<jroes_> thankya \sh, you have been too helpful :)
<hellboy195> dholbach: may you can help me with bug #201088 ? 
<\sh> jroes_: yeah...my mistake ;)
<dholbach> hellboy195: it seem like it still needs update-inetd, no? 
<hellboy195> dholbach: it was introduced because installation failed on feisty.  but on hardy it installs fine ,..
<dholbach> but only if it's update-inted is installed, right? 
<hellboy195> dholbach: if you install ubuntu it will also be installed ^^ you do you mean if I remove it and then install ckermit? 
<dholbach> yep
<hellboy195> dholbach: hmm damn it. :(   But a merge isn't really worth it now
<dholbach> maybe we should just forward that change to debian, then sync it with intrepid? 
<hellboy195> dholbach: great idea.  I never think about such a possibility -.-  thx
<dholbach> :)
 * dholbach hugs hellboy195
 * hellboy195 hugs back and is asking why ^^
<effie_jayx> hellboy195,  it's a motu custom
<effie_jayx> you hug when fix a bug
<hellboy195> effie_jayx: fix ,.. ^^
 * hellboy195 contacts now debian folks :)
<hellboy195> dholbach: time for another bug? 
<dholbach> hellboy195: shoot
<LaserJock> sistpoty|work: ping
<sistpoty|work> LaserJock: pong
<hellboy195> dholbach: you perhaps no the python-xml removal thing.  I try to do it with skencil.  The problem and the solution is here: bug #81567
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81567 in skencil "skencil crashes on startup with a SIGSEGV in free()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81567
<LaserJock> sistpoty|work: regarding gfortran, I've got 5 done in upstream
<sistpoty|work> LaserJock: excellent, what do you recommend? 
<LaserJock> sistpoty|work: well, *I* didn't do the work, but debichem just uploaded the last of the set
<LaserJock> sistpoty|work: let's tackle em' ;-)
<sistpoty|work> LaserJock: ok, can you add that to the bug report please? 
<LaserJock> will do
<sistpoty|work> thanks! 
<dholbach> hellboy195: hum... so you want to merge http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11839538/skencil.debdiff with a remove-python-xml change? 
<dholbach> hellboy195: best to suggest that on the bug report and get it into the sponsoring queue (and close the other bug with that upload too)
<hellboy195> dholbach: k, thanks :)
<dholbach> anytime
<slytherin> What are these universe derivative CDs? 
<protonchris> Anyone willing to take a look at a FFE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glom/+bug/201385 ? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201385 in glom "Hardy: Please update glom to latest version" [Undecided,New]
<adorablepuppy> I've got a launchpad account, who do I ask to join the MOTU team? 
<jpatrick> adorablepuppy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<adorablepuppy> jpatrick: Thanks.  Already read the package guide and stuff, just didn't see the MOTU/Contact part. 
<jpatrick> adorablepuppy: you don't just join it, you have to work on packages and later join
<slytherin> adorablepuppy: You can not just join MOTU team.  You have to do some contribution first. 
<adorablepuppy> Understood. 
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
 * \sh too ... not home but the next pub :)
<hellboy195> \sh: hrhr, hf
<POX_> "Remove build dependency on python-xml, useless since it depends on python-all-dev" - please don't do that, not all modules from python-xml are in python package; you have to check if app.  is using these modules or not
<POX_> removing python-xml without checking is not a fix! 
<slytherin> POX_: Who is doing it without checking? 
<POX_> Christophe Sauthier for example
<POX_> see conduit or imgseek package
<slytherin> POX_: did any of those package break? 
<POX_> don't know
<POX_> conduit is using xml.dom.minidom and xmlrpclib only, so it's ok
<slytherin> has anyone already tried building and using epiphany with webkit backend? 
<POX_> same with imgseek so false alarm, anyway, please test it instead "removing since package depends on python-all-dev"
<slytherin> POX_: I think the bug description already has that note.  If there isn't then please add it. :-) 
<POX_> is that so hard to add in changelog something like: ... and imgseek is using modules available in Python >= 2.4
<POX_> this way I would know one tested it
<LaserJock> ScottK: ping
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Pong
<LaserJock> ScottK2: do you want a FFe bug filed for psicode for the gfortran transition? 
<hellboy195> Would here anybody grant a FFe for monodevelop 1.0 final if debian would have it in the next 1-2 days? 
<LaserJock> I think it's fairly straightforward but I can file one if you think we should have the paper trail ;-)
<ScottK2> LaserJock: I'd say not.   Reading the gfortran bug, sistpoty suggested a blanket FFe for the transition, and I said OK, so if you want to you can interpret that as being pre-approved. 
<ScottK2> hellboy195: The key question is bugfix or new features? 
<hellboy195> ScottK: both.  ubuntu has beta2 ( beta3, RC, now final)
<ScottK2> hellboy195: If there's new features between beta2 and final, then we need an FFe. 
<hellboy195> ScottK: Yeah I said Would here anybody grant a *FFe* for monodevelop 1.0 final
<ScottK2> hellboy195: I'd have to read it first. 
<ScottK2> hellboy195: I'd say probably though
<hellboy195> ^^
<hellboy195> I love MD and I would take care for filing a FFe and providing the needed things ,..
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: buona sera :)
<DktrKranz> hey hellboy195
<pochu> hey DktrKranz
<pochu> DktrKranz: seen bluekuja recently? 
<DktrKranz> pochu, ! 
<DktrKranz> pochu, via mobile, a couple of days ago
<pochu> ah, hope he's fine
<DktrKranz> he is, trust me :P
<pochu> it's been a long time I don't see him, and I mailed him a few weeks ago and he didn't answer
<pochu> nice :)
<pochu> DktrKranz: so how are you doing? :) 
<DktrKranz> his girlfriend is draining resources :P
<pochu> DktrKranz: heh
<DktrKranz> MOTU meeting is in 5 minutes, any attendees? 
<ScottK2> There's still a dozen and a half packages that need touching for Bug #199014 if anyone is looking for easy work. 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199014 in emesene "python-xml removal: please drop/replace (build) dependencies" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199014
<ScottK2> DktrKranz: Thanks for the reminder
<DktrKranz> you're welcome
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess I'll be there
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> hey sistpoty! :) 
<siretart> sistpoty: how are you? 
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<sistpoty> siretart: I'm fine, thanks... how are you? 
<sistpoty> we got new boxes at uni this week, very, very cool :)
<siretart> finally started my desktop computer, just dist-upgrading hardy :)
<sistpoty> good luck ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: the new frasch computers? 
<sistpoty> siretart: yes :)
<siretart> quad-core with 8BG ram :)
<siretart> yes, the specs read pretty nice
<siretart> juk ordered 70 of them :)
<sistpoty> yes, very fast (but debian/stable doesn't have graphics, so we installed ubuntu *g*)
<sistpoty> heh
<RainCT> hi
<hellboy195> hio RainCT
<jussi01> hi peoples, Ive uploaded a few bug fixes and subscribd UUS, just wondering what is the go with those now?  can I poke to get them uploaded?  does the beta freeze affect it? 
<jussi01> bug 201471 and bug 201480
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201471 in genpo "Genpo Missing Icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201471
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201480 in alsa-tools "Icon has no transparency/white background. " [ Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201480
<sistpoty> jussi01: motu meeting currently going on, maybe you'd like to join #ubuntu-meeting? 
<jussi01> sistpoty: ahh, didnt know, thanks
<sistpoty> jussi01: others than that, yes, these can get uploaded, but need a manual shove through by an archive admin afterwards
<jussi01> sistpoty: great, thanks
<siretart> how can I mark a bug in http://daniel.holba.ch/really-fix-it/ as invalid patch?  I found a patch that a) isn't a debdiff, b) against an older version and c) probably fixed upstream in a different way
<siretart> LaserJock: btw, grats for DM-ship :)
<LaserJock> siretart: danke
<siretart> :)
<geser> siretart: my guess would be to uncheck the patch checkbox for the attachment
<siretart> geser: will try that then
<geser> DktrKranz: looking at bglibs right now, do I need to add -fno-stack-protector for sparc and powerpc?  the only way to test the build on those archs would be to upload and see
<DktrKranz> geser, you can try on sparky (if bglibs is not heavy).  I can test on ppc on a friend of mine
<geser> bglibs is small, will try on sparky and hope that if it builds on sparc then also on powerpc
<DktrKranz> it FTBFS the same way, so I guess it will build
<DktrKranz> in the meantime, I'm testing the other packages
<siretart> ajmitch: could you please join in #ubuntuwire?  I'd like to find a home for you RC bug tracker
<cody-somerville> Is anyone working on the ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue? 
<cody-somerville> I have 7 items in it
<hellboy195> cody-somerville: I have > 10 ^^
<cody-somerville> hellboy195, The pythom-xml stuff? 
<hellboy195> cody-somerville: no other ones
<geser> I will try to look at the queue later, but can't promise
<sistpoty> oh that reminds me of ghc6, cody-somerville ;)I
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, :)
 * geser needs to hug a reset button of a server first :(
<cody-somerville> hellboy195, Clearly I need to catch up then
<geser> sistpoty: another ghc6 transition? 
<sistpoty> geser: no, only a bug fix release, solving the split_obj problem
<geser> good as we just finished the last one (at least I hope it's complete now)
<sistpoty> geser: I've looked over the debian patch for the issue, it imho should be completely abi compatible (except for cases, which are borked from wrong object-splitting code anyways)
<sistpoty> geser: but if you want to double-check, I'd welcome that ;)
<geser> my haskell knowledge is not sufficient for this
<sistpoty> geser: the object splitter is a perl script, producing/mangling assembly
<hellboy195> cody-somerville: true :)
<cody-somerville> hellboy195, Okay, that makes eight (8) :)
<hellboy195> hrhr
<sistpoty> (actually a collection of perl scripts for different architectures, only i386 being bitten by a bug)
<cody-somerville> :)
<cody-somerville> hellboy195, Okay.  I'm a little too intoxicated now to do anything more safely :)
<hellboy195> cody-somerville: Don't worry.  I'm doing today/tomorrow a more *difficult* one.  so you can reach my record ^^
<cody-somerville> hellboy195, What are you doing? 
<hellboy195> cody-somerville: some kind of python-xml removal but with additional patching because of a seg fault
<cody-somerville> hellboy195, fun :)
<hellboy195> ^^
<hellboy195> We'll see
<Nafallo> hehe.  just installed adblockplus, and it's not compatible with the current firefox :-P
<Nafallo> though
<Nafallo> dooh even
<LaserJock> ScottK2: I'm assuming a separate sync bug is the way to go for packages in the gfortran transition, correct? 
<ScottK2> LaserJock: Probably.   It'd be confusing for the archive admins to get syncs against the main transition bug
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that would be good, not to clutter up the huge transition bug, I guess
<LaserJock> that's what I was thinking
<sistpoty> LaserJock: though that needs manual closing of the bug's task in the FFe :/
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I think that's an OK thing though
<LaserJock> I'm not very fond of the "changelog closes bugs" feature anyway ;-)
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> LaserJock: since vi has syntax highlighting for it, even I can do it :P
<LaserJock> I always forget to add it to the changelog
<RainCT> Nafallo: what do you mean by "current"? 
<RainCT> Nafallo: I tested it with 3.0, and it should work with 2 too
<Nafallo> RainCT: the one in hardy. 
<RainCT> btw, REVU Coordinator election -> #ubuntu-meeting
<Nafallo> RainCT: "Not compatible with Firefox 3.0b4"
<Nafallo> :-)
<RainCT> Nafallo: oh, might be.  I've 3.0b3
<Nafallo> I have to say I was surprised to have b4 :-P
<slytherin> Anyone working on updating elisa? 
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, how goes it? 
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: the debdiff looks fine, I'm just test-building and about to review the debdiff between current ubuntu and new version
<sistpoty> (to see changes in the splitter)
<persia> cody-somerville: Good call on starfighter :)
<cody-somerville> :)
<slytherin> persia: got any bugs for me to work over weekend? :-) 
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: oh, undocumented changes: build-depends (gcc, versioned), and depends (version of gcc)
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, I don't see that in the debdiff
<persia> slytherin: I've not a prepared list.   really-fix-it, NBS, FTBFS, and RC merges would be my recommendations
<slytherin> persia: I was trying an FTBFS of evolution-scalix.  I am stuck
<slytherin> apart from that, I am planning to update bluez-gnome and try elisa
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: right, was looking at debian changes, sorry
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, :)
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: ok, all changes are fine, only needing to wait until my build finishes (I guess 1 hour or so), then I'll upload it.  Thanks! 
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, It takes an hour to build for you? 
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: on my old box, it took 7-9 hours (6.6 though)
<cody-somerville> oh wow
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: from the last build on this box, I only remember that it was amazingly fast instead, compared to 7-9 hours *g*
<cody-somerville> ghc6 is a long-ish build
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: see the other bugs, how long a build took on spooky :(
<Ssam`> i need a dummys guide to debian packaging
<sistpoty> ! packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also ! backports
<sistpoty> Ssam`: ^^
<Ssam`> which ones the dummys guide? 
<Ssam`> i mean which would u recomend
<slytherin> Ssam`: I suggest you start with fixing bugs in existing packages.  You will learn more and faster. 
<sistpoty> Ssam`: the first link (it should hopefully contain links to lots of other good documentation as well)
<Ssam`> one silly question......are all packages created the same or similar way? 
<Ssam`> like debian , rpm, tars? 
<Ssam`> will i learn them differntly? 
<poningru> Ssam`: essentially.. read the packaging guide
<sistpoty> Ssam`: kind of... all packages are created from a (debian) source package, where debian/rules (a makefile), target binary is run to produce a deb
<Ssam`> so u can learn debian packaging and rpms would be an auto or simpler? 
<Ssam`> ahh kewl
<Ssam`> i ma read through packaging thanks
<sistpoty> Ssam`: no, rpm is done differently
<Ssam`> lol
<sistpoty> (though I've forgotten the details)
<Ssam`> u had to say that? 
<Ssam`> u couldent wait till i left
<Ssam`> :P
<civija> Ssam`: maybe this will be helpfull too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<sistpoty> heh
<civija> read the packaging sessions
<Ssam`> i will
<Ssam`> i wanna learn all packaging
<Ssam`> thanks mate
<cody-somerville> 0o0... persia: Are you going to sponsor *hic* starfighter?  :D
<persia> cody-somerville: As soon as I get to sponsoring, if it is still there
<cody-somerville> persia, Okay, thanks :)
<Adri2000> ScottK, ScottK2: I see you uploaded mok0's wxwidgets2.6 debdiff for python-xml removal.  but you didn't upload wxwidgets2.8.  is it just because of lack of time or something, or is there anything wrong in it? 
<ScottK> Adri2000: Just lack of time
<Adri2000> ScottK: okay
<geser> DktrKranz2: just to let you know: the diet wrapper around gcc eats -fno-stack-protector when called as diet -Os gcc ...
<RainCT> good night
 * jdong is floored by ff3b4
<jdong> to say that it's fast is a gross understatement. 
 * RAOF hates on intltool
<RAOF> There's presumably some tool for populating po/POTFILES.in with all the files with translatable strings in them... but none of the intltool-* tools seem to do this, and google is silent on intltool documentation! 
<slytherin> I am facing very weird problem with FF, yelp, devhelp.  Some fonts are so large that I can not read the page.  Can anyone help debug this issue? 
<emgent> 1/join #ubuntu-it-chat
<emgent> ups, sorry
<Fujitsu> jdong: Compared to Fx3b3, or compared to Fx2? 
<slytherin> Please someone help me, it is making my browsing experience very bad. :-( 
<jdong> Fujitsu: compared to even Fx3b3
<jdong> Fujitsu: it feels like fx2->fx3b3 all over again. 
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: ghc6 uploaded :)
<jdong> webpages just simply seem to render instaneously
<Fujitsu> jdong: Oh, nice. 
<jdong> so much so that I'm working on a backport already :D
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Thanks for the ack on the gfortran stuff, I'm working on uploading the bits I've prepared now. 
<pochu> slytherin: sounds like bug 178558
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178558 in xulrunner-1.9 "Firefox 3.0 makes everything annoyingly huge" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178558
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: excellent, thanks! 
<slytherin> pochu: Can read the bug.  Even launchpad is borked. :-( 
<slytherin> s/Can/Can't
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: One thing... petsc introduced a new build-dep on spooles, which is a new package that we don't have.  Should I drop the build-dependency and configure flags? 
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: hm, not too sure... maybe bringing in spooles might also be an option.  I couldn't say which I'd choose right now... I guess you should just decide on this
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: I dropped the build-dependency for my PPA, but I'm not sure what to do in Ubuntu. 
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: maybe you could try to figure what spooles is needed for and make a decision based on this?  If it's merely enabling a feature, I guess I'd drop the b-d
<Fujitsu> It's just a feature, right. 
<Fujitsu> That's why I dropped it. 
<cody-somerville> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-15
<X3N> quick question: are there more packages for 32bit than 64bit ? 
<Fujitsu> X3N: Not by any significant margin. 
<X3N> :)
<X3N> thanks
<X3N> Daviey, ^
<cody-somerville> :)
 * Fujitsu is reminded of Dust Puppy. 
<blueyed> what's the bash equivalent of realname to get the full path of a file? 
<blueyed> 2.  there is no /etc/X11/xorg.d or similar, is there?  For packages to add conf settings. 
<LaserJock> do we have anybody running MOTU School? 
<james_w> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> james_w: ah, I wondered if it was you
<LaserJock> I was gonna dig through emails
<james_w> LaserJock: what are you after? 
<LaserJock> james_w: you wanna be MOTU School Coordinator? 
<james_w> I'm a but stuck for what to do this month. 
<james_w> LaserJock: what does that mean? 
<LaserJock> the person to contact for ideas and who sets up the sessions
<LaserJock> basically what you've been doing
<james_w> I thought I already was :)
<LaserJock> well, more official like
<LaserJock> I'm making a list, checking it twice
<LaserJock> seeing who's been naughty or nice
<james_w> I know it's been far from official, and I've only been doing it for a couple of months so no-one knows if I'm serious and whether I plan to stick around. 
<james_w> I've definitely been somewhere between naughty and nice, so do I get on your list? 
<LaserJock> yep
<james_w> great, I'd be happy to be listed. 
<cody-somerville> Do I make this list? :) 
<LaserJock> you might, ya never know
<james_w> and if anyone wants to help me with this month's that would be great ;-)
<james_w> what's the most critical thing for release at this point? 
<james_w> getting patches in?  fixing FTBFS? 
<cody-somerville> I notice there are a ton of merges on merges.ubuntu.com for universe
<cody-somerville> Where the ubuntu delta is just a rebuild
<LaserJock> FTBFS is pretty big I think
<LaserJock> making sure anything we're in the middle of gets done
<LaserJock> like the gfortran transition going on right now
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: those are better handled in Intrepid I think
 * Fujitsu notes that an archive rebuild will finish in less than an hour. 
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, but the debian stuff usually has good stuff
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: I thought you were saying the ubuntu delta was just a rebuild
<james_w> I'd be happy to run a FTBFS session, only I don't even know where the FTBFS list is :)
<LaserJock> you mean that there's new stuff we should be syncing? 
<james_w> cody-somerville: you don't mean a -build1? 
<cody-somerville> james_w, Yes, I do
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, The ubuntu delta is just a rebuild
<Fujitsu> Why did the archive have to freeze right before we do a lot of uploads for the gfortran transition? 
<james_w> cody-somerville: ah, ok.  Does that need a session, it's just a sync isn't it? 
<cody-somerville> Right
<cody-somerville> I filed several sync requests today
<cody-somerville> But there are still more that should be synced
<LaserJock> is MoM still running? 
<cody-somerville> I think so, yes. 
<james_w> LaserJock: last I looked, yes
<LaserJock> that's where the "RC bugs fixed in Debian but not in Ubuntu" list is good
<LaserJock> we need to be able to prioritize which stuff to grab
<james_w> that's a list worth looking at. 
 * cody-somerville nods. 
<cody-somerville> but qa.ubuntuwire.com is down :(
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, cody-somerville: I don't believe that was ever being updated for Hardy, anyway. 
<cody-somerville> Fujitsu, It had good enough regardless
<james_w> so it's the list of out of date packages in Ubuntu where the debian uploads since the last included version fixed an RC bug? 
<Fujitsu> Indeed.  We really need to track down imbrandon. 
<Fujitsu> james_w: That's correct. 
<sistpoty> nixternal: please ping an archive admin, once the new package has been uploaded (bug #196123)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 196123 in ubuntu "[FFe] keurocalc port to kde4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196123
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, it relies on someone rsyncing from the BTS, which means it needs a DD. 
<james_w> is the SOAP or ldap interface not good enough?  Or is the problem DOSing the BTS? 
<Fujitsu> I believe it needs to check every bug, so it'd be a fairly effective DoS.
<LaserJock> superm1: ping
<james_w> fair enough. 
<LaserJock> I think ajmitch actually downloaded a local copy of bts or something to do it
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's right. 
<james_w> LaserJock: have you approached any of the other DDs to do it? 
<LaserJock> no
<sistpoty> maybe lucas would have some idea/some script? 
<LaserJock> we've just kinda been throwing it around today
<james_w> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi james_w
<nexu> nn
 * sistpoty is off to bed... gn8
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hiya bddebian
<nixternal> boo
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock, nixternal
<nixternal> wasabi homeskillet
<bddebian> Heh, not much.  You folks? 
<nixternal> dput'in' crack into the repos :)
<bddebian> heh, that's always good :)
<nixternal> I uploaded one of your patches the other day, and I can't remember which one it was now
<nixternal> yesterday actually
<bddebian> My patches?   I don't patch anything.. :-)
<nixternal> it was a super old patch, like 2006 old
<bddebian> It's just so funny to see the stark differences between the Ubuntu IRC channels and the Debian ones. :-) 
<ScottK2> bddebian: Yeah.   They're required to care about their users, but we're free to ignore them. 
<bddebian> Uhm, that would be the anti-thesis of my experiences :-)
<ScottK2> It's in the Debian social contract, so it must be true? 
<nixternal> hehe
<bddebian> I'm not dissing Debian as a distro, it's just funny.   Almost any time of day in almost any Ubuntu channel, I can solicite a hello.   In the Debian channels, it's dead air.. :-)
<nixternal> bddebian: hang out in the debian-qt-kde chan, it is hardly ever dead air
 * nixternal kicks ajmitch in the shin
 * porthose wave to all
<bddebian> Hello porthose
<porthose> what will be the name of the next release, after hardy? 
<cody-somerville> Intrepid
<porthose> sound cool, I like :)
<porthose> thx
<jdong> NO.  BAD FIREFOX-3.0 PACKAGING. * SMACK*. 
<jdong> the world's out to get me.  Everytime I turn around, the world tries to symlink firefox-3.0 to firefox and mess up my backports :)
<jdong> I broke Breaks: :)
<jdong> do I get a trophy for that? 
<cody-somerville> :)
<RAOF> It should've been Intrepid _Iguana_.   Iguanas are awesome, more so than cool mountain goats. 
<ScottK2> +1
<emgent> heya people
<RAOF> Howdie emgent. 
<emgent> how die? 
<superm1> hi LaserJock
<superm1> what's up? 
<RAOF> emgent: I could spell it "howdy", if you like :)
<emgent> i dont understand howdy :P
<RAOF> It's "hello", but distorted through years of separation from reality. 
<ScottK2> It's derived from How do you do? 
<RAOF> Yup
<emgent> RAOF: lol ok :P
<LaserJock> RAOF: like much of the english language? :-) 
<RAOF> LaserJock: Heh.   We're just talking a crazy mixture of Old Norse, German, and French :)
<jscinoz> i'm making a downloader package that uses zenity to display progress, i was instructed to use ssft instead as it  could use alternate methods if an xserver was not present, i have the output of wget mangled around to display % and download speed, however i cant get ssft_progress_bar to take this output, heres a paste of the script so far http://pastebin.com/m8f444a9 what am i doing wrong? 
<jscinoz> I'm making a downloader package that uses ssft to display progress, i'm using wget to download a file and using sed to mangle it into "0% \n Downloading at $downloadspeed" ssft is updating the speed but not hte bar from the percentage, what am i doign wrong
<jscinoz> this is so strange
<jscinoz> it gives a lintian error "bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy" how is gutsy a bad distribution? 
<Hobbsee> jscinoz: which release are you on/
<jscinoz> as in what release am i building on? 
<Hobbsee> ye
<Hobbsee> s
<jscinoz> gutsy
<Hobbsee> strange
<Hobbsee> it would usually be because the system displaying that is feisty or below
<jscinoz> >_<
<jscinoz> changlog line: urbanterror-data (4.1~getdeb0) gutsy; urgency=low
<jscinoz> and yes it's supposed to be native :P
<Hobbsee> i'd say because it doesn't have ubuntu1 at the end.   it's ignorable, anyway
<Hobbsee> ...and why are you packaging for getdeb/'
<jscinoz> i missed the freeze for hardy, so i'm packaging for debian so it'll get pulled downstream for ibex, and while i wait for a sponsor i may as well put in on getdeb so at least some people can get it
<emgent> heya people
<jscinoz> rawr
<LaserJock> has anybody tried dist-upgrading from like Gutsy to Debian testing/unstable? 
<emgent> some motu up ? 
<emgent> Hobbsee: ping :)
<Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.   This is a contentless pong.   Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around. 
<emgent> heheh it's true
<emgent> bug #202422
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202422 in smarty "CVE-2008-1066 smarty allows attackers to call arbitrary PHP functions via templates" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202422
<emgent> please open task and upload for hardy
<emgent> s/task/tasks/
<Fujitsu> Isn't that how smarty works? 
<emgent> Fujitsu: it'snt critical bug, smarty work but it's vulnerable
<Hobbsee> emgent: the sponsorship queue was overrated? 
<emgent> Hobbsee: i prefer used IRC for security sponsor in hardy, because the rest of upload are by security team. 
<emgent> argh my english sux
<nixternal> fooey
<emgent> ls
<emgent> ups, worng window
<Iulian> G'morning. 
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Thanks for uploading nxtvepg. 
<Iulian> Hello btw :)
<vik_3278> Hello, I have a quick question on naming conventions for back-ports. 
<Hobbsee> jdong: ^
<Hobbsee> vik_3278: would help if you say your question
<vik_3278> I'm trying to backport  libestools1.2_1.2.96~beta from Hardy to Gutsy
<DktrKranz> Iulian, hey.  Thank *you*
<vik_3278> Hobbsee: yeah I already posted on jdong's thread, but I thought I'd do a little bit of digging myself :)
<vik_3278> sorry the package is called libestools1.2_1.2.96~beta-2
<vik_3278> if I'm not mistaken, I should name it something like libestools1.2_1.2.96~beta-2~7.10backport1
<vik_3278> or atleast that's what jdong's prevu utility does
<vik_3278> but apt doesn't seem to like the 2 ~'s in the name
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, ! 
<vik_3278> So my question is, what is the correct way to name this package? 
<jpatrick> vik_3278: ~gutsy1
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: sry? 
<vik_3278> drop the ~beta-2 all together? 
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, hi :P
<hellboy195> xD xD xD
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: good morning
<hellboy195> persia: around? 
<hellboy195> Damn.  We are in betafreeze and they now release audacious 1.5 -.-
<vik_3278> jpatrick: Ok since it's going to be a local package, I can name it simply ~gutsy1, but does that mean that any packages with "~something" already is potentially not backportable without breaking the name? 
<jpatrick> vik_3278: I don't see why apt wouldn't like two "~"s in the version, we use it all the time for KDE4 packages
<vik_3278> jpatrick:hmm is that right?  My problem might be elsewhere then...
<jpatrick> vik_3278: all KDE4 packages are ~gutsy1~ppa1 when backported
<vik_3278> jpatrick: Interesting.  So it should work huh...
<vik_3278> jpatrick:actually the problem is when I try to install a backported version of festival which depends on this. 
<afflux> betafreeze affects only main, is that correct? 
<vik_3278> jpatrick: apt-get install tells me "festival: Depends: libestools1.2 (>= 1:1.2.96~beta-2) but 1:1.2.96~beta-2~7.10prevu1 is to be installed" despite the debian/control file saying "libestools1.2-dev (>= 1:1.2.96~beta-2~7.10prevu1)"
<Hobbsee> vik_3278: you need to fix the festival, then
<Hobbsee> vik_3278: ~ means "less than"
<vik_3278> Hobbsee: That's what I thought I did: debian/control
<vik_3278> Build-Depends: [...] libestools1.2-dev (>= 1:1.2.96~beta-2~7.10prevu1) [...]
<vik_3278> [...]
<vik_3278> Package: festival
<vik_3278> [...]
<vik_3278> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} [...]
<vik_3278> oops sorry about that ^^;
<vik_3278> AHA!  found it!!!! 
<vik_3278> silly me! 
<vik_3278> shlibs:Depends
<vik_3278> got it.  Thank you guys!  I hadn't edited debian/shlibs.local with the ~7.10prevu1 added in. 
<Hobbsee> :)
<afflux> betafreeze affects only main, is that correct? 
<persia> afflux: It's hard freeze for main, soft freeze for universe.   Be careful what you upload. 
<afflux> I can't upload anyway
<persia> afflux: In that case, be careful what you request to be uploaded :)
<afflux> I added two bugs to the universe sponsoring queue, that's why I'm asking ;)
<afflux> It's bug 195462 and bug 139877, both are not important to get them in before beta release
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 195462 in pymsn "telepathy-butterfly crashed with NameError in _on_blob_received()" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195462
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139877 in emerald "emerald crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_gc_new_with_values()" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139877
<afflux> Just for the record ;)
<RainCT> hey
<hellboy195> RainCT: heya
<Iulian> Hi RainCT
<cody-somerville> ScottK, I've updated bug 197650
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 197650 in gdesklets "gdesklets in hardy unusable due to an unhandled error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197650
<yen> hi guys, need little help to upload my package to REVU using dput
<yen> i have my launchpad account, signed Key upload, etc
<yen> the instructions in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU look very difficult in the DPUT part
<yen> I have the .deb of my package, how to upload now? 
<RainCT> yen: you've to upload the .changes file with dget (and doing this it will also upload the .dsc, the .diff.gz and the .orig.tar.gz)
<Nightrose> yen: dput revu package_version_source.changes is the important part
<Nightrose> so go to the folder whith the *.changes file
<RainCT> yen: but first, have you joined the universe contributors team and if so, when have you joined it (or if you added the key to LP later, when was that)? 
<yen> i joined and added the key around 10min ago
<yen> i read u may need to reload the keyring or something
<RainCT> yen: okay, so REVU won't have it yet (the last keyring re-sync was yesterday).  Give me the link to your LP profile and I'll add your key
<yen> here, https://launchpad.net/~capiscuas/, thks a lot
<RainCT> yen: ok, done
<RainCT> yen: you can dput the .changes file now
<yen> superb
 * RainCT would like to know wheter others think the patch proposed in bug #201509 is sane or not
<RainCT> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gweled/+bug/201509)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201509 in gweled "Get rid of .gweled file and follow fd.o specifications" [Undecided,In progress]
<RainCT> deleting the .gweled file is necessary for the patch on bug #90499 to work, but I'm not sure if that's OK
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90499 in gweled "gweled plays annoying sound which can't be switched off" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/90499
<yen> RainCT: i've finished uploading using dput
<yen> subdownloader_1.2.9-ubuntu1.dsc: done. 
<yen>   subdownloader_1.2.9-ubuntu1.tar.gz: done. 
<yen>   subdownloader_1.2.9-ubuntu1_source.changes: done. 
<yen> what will happen now to see the .deb in the repositories? 
<Hobbsee> yen: where did you upload to? 
<Hobbsee> oh, revu
<RainCT> Hobbsee: REVU
<RainCT> yen: ok, the uploads is now at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=subdownloader
<RainCT> yen: but we are in Feature Freeze right now, so it probably won't get much attention
<RainCT> yen: new packages aren't accepted into Ubuntu (Hardy) anymore, unless there's a really good reason for that, so you'll have to wait until the repositories for Intrepid are created
<kgoetz> intrepid? 
<tsmithe> the next release: intrepid ibex
<hellboy195> hardy +1
<kgoetz> ah... i hadnt heard the new name yet
<RainCT> yen: (ie, just after Hardy's release).  once Intrepid development started people will look at it (if they don't, ask here on Mondays -Monday = REVU Day-) and if you get 2 advocated (2 MOTUs state that they are happy with it) it will be uploaded to Intrepid
<jpatrick> ! ibex | kgoetz
<ubotu> kgoetz: Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex
<yen> RainCT, pitty I cannot get into Hardy repos, my GOOD reason could be that the program has 700.000 downloads, is that enought? 
<RainCT> yen: I don't know... You can try filling a Feature Freeze Exception, but I don't think "a lot of downloads" is a good reason
<RainCT> ScottK? 
<RainCT> yen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<yen> thks
<awen_> anybody has any idea, what might cause this error while building? 
<awen_> dh_md5sums -a
<awen_> md5sum: invalid option -- d
<protonchris> Anyone in here interested at taking a look at a upgraded package and maybe sponsoring an upload?   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glom/+bug/201385
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201385 in glom "Hardy: Please update glom to latest version" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<RainCT> Is anyone here on Hardy using the latest emerald version (from the repos)? 
<jdong> people still use emerald? 
 * jdong hugs asac infinitely
<jdong> asac: firefox 3.0 beta4 has really made my day.  and weekend. 
 * RainCT does, and he knows other people who use it to
<ScottK2> jdong: jeromeg was on last night and asked me to to upload a pigdin backport.   I'd like to get verification from you first that it's a good backport. 
<RainCT> jdong: what's new? 
<jdong> RainCT: speed.  RAM usage.  Beyond all belief. 
<jdong> RainCT: i was using LP last night, opened up all confirmed backports bugs in tabs, RAM usage slightly below 100MB
<RainCT> jdong: from b3->b4, or with Firefox 3 in general? 
<jdong> ScottK2: yeah, I looked over his debdiff and it looked quite reasonable, and the amount of testing he's done well exceeds my expectations.  +1 from me. 
<ScottK2> OK. 
<jdong> RainCT: b3->b4 is like the ff2->b3 jump.  all over again. 
<bmk789> ! seen
<ubotu> The seen function has not been operational for a long time.   Use /msg seenserv seen nickname instead. 
<RainCT> great :)
<bmk789> FF3 b4 doesnt work here :\
<bmk789> but im on hardy
<jdong> bmk789: aww :(.  Up to date? 
<bmk789> ya, i think its some library that needs updated, im using swiftweasel 3 b3 for the time being, about to try SW b4
<fta> what's wrong with b4 ? 
<bmk789> of course i try it now and it works
<hellboy195> LucidFox: beagle?  ^^
<bmk789> and it is VERY fast
<fta> most people complaining about that had a mix of xul1.9 b4 and ff3 b3
<ScottK2> jdong: Is there any reason not to make rosegarden build-dep libfftw3-dev | fftw3-dev so source backports aren't needed in the future? 
<jdong> ScottK2: that sounds like a better idea
<ScottK2> jdong: I'll go ahead and do this one, but please fix it in Hardy so we don't need to next time. 
<ScottK2> jdong: Would you do me a favor and look at what would be needed for a WINE backport. 
<jdong> ScottK2: well do you think it's okay to put transisional build deps like that into Hardy? 
<ScottK2> I don't see a downside risk.   Do you?   Maybe ask a few others. 
<jdong> ScottK2: I don't see any risk, I'm just not sure if anyone will cry and whine about build-dep bloat to support backports packages
<jdong> ScottK2: I don't mind doing it, just there's something about uploading to Hardy to fix a -backports problem... doesn't sound right
<jdong> ScottK2: and yes, I will look into a WINE backport
<ScottK2> jdong: rosegarden FTBFS in my pbuilder for Gutsy due to no libjack-dev
<ScottK2> jdong: IIRC, you've done some work on Audacious.   Assuming that's correct, I'd be interested in your opinion of Bug 202518? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202518 in audacious "[FFe] Merge audacious 1.5.0-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202518
<protonchris> Previously, I have done FFEs for upgrading packages to upstream releases that just fix bugs.   I found a package where the version is over 2 years old.   So an upgrade would most likely include new features.   What are the chances of a FFE being granted? 
<ScottK2> protonchris: It really depends a lot on the package. 
<ScottK2> protonchris: If you're interested in the package, I'd suggest do the FFe and see. 
<protonchris> ok.  Here is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/galculator/+bug/201909
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201909 in galculator "please upgrade to new upstream release (1.3.1)" [Wishlist,New]
<ScottK2> protonchris: Knowing if the new version fixed Bug 126841 would also be relevant. 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126841 in galculator "galculator: constants don't work, decimals get cropped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126841
<protonchris> ScottK2: thanks. 
<jdong> libjack-dev | 0.103.0-6ubuntu1 | gutsy/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
<jdong> ScottK2: ^^ :-/. And I haven't done any work on Audacious so I don't have any useful comments for that
<ScottK2> jdong: OK.   Thanks. 
<ScottK2> jdong: Looks like rosegarden was some kind of subtle pbuilder problem.   When I use --debug on the pbuilder it finds libjack-dev. 
<ScottK2> Still plenty to do on Bug #199014 if anyone needs work ...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199014 in emesene "python-xml removal: please drop/replace (build) dependencies" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199014
<RainCT> seems like something is wrong with emerald 0.7.2 or a dependency is missing/not high enough..
<jdong> ScottK2: wine builds fine from hardy without source changes... now excuse me as I use this as a reason to play starcraft for 4 hours
<jdong> because.... you know... WINE regressions don't immediately show up.... ;-)
<hellboy195> jdong: xD hf
<ScottK2> jdong: You going to file the backports bug and ask the archive then? 
<jdong> ScottK2: yeah, I'll do so
 * jdong jumps up and down... Firefox after 24hrs still only uses 65.9MB RAM!!! 
<RainCT> jdong: wow, true.  59MB here.. b3 used around 150
<jdong> RainCT: yeah, the difference is quite amazing
<RainCT> :D
<jdong> RainCT: try using alt-1,2,3 to switch between tabs.  Often times it's instantenous, at most 0.5s delay
<jdong> that's a first for me
<RainCT> awesome! 
 * bmk789_ needs a mentor
<ScottK2> jdong: rosegarden uploaded
<jdong> ScottK2: yup just saw the e-mail; thanks :)
 * ScottK2 scribbles some notes about remembering to turn universe back on in his pbuilder after he turns it off...
<RainCT> Hi bmk789_
<RainCT> bmk789_: why do you think that you need one? 
<bmk789_> id really like to get into packaging and patching and stuff so i could contribute to development
<bmk789_> ive read the wiki pages and stuff but think having a mentor to explain the process would make it understandable
<bmk789_> RainCT: ^
<RainCT> bmk789_: okay, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring then
<bmk789_> RainCT: thanks
<RainCT> or rather https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
<RainCT> you're welcome :)
<ScottK2> bmk789_: Alternatively you can dive in, get to work, and ask questions as you have them. 
<bmk789_> I'll probably read up some more and do that
<enarxe0> nxvl:  hi
<enarxe0> effie_jayx:  hi
<Rotund> Any chance of getting a new community package into hardy still? 
<hellboy195> Rotund: hardly.  Is it *very* important`
<hellboy195> ? 
<Rotund> Updating OpenAL... the one there is awful
<Rotund> hardly used by anything actually. 
<hellboy195> Rotund: you can try but I don't think it will get into hardy
<siretart> Rotund: openal is hardy used by anything?  huh? 
<rexbron> Rotund: It is unlikely that a library update will occur this late in the cycle (espically before a beta freeze) unless is fixes a critical bug
<siretart> Rotund: there are quite some packages using openal.  I'm not even sure we should switch to openal soft for lenny
<rexbron> That would require a rebuild of all packages that depend on it
<Rotund> that was the suggestion
<Rotund> (going to openal soft)
<Rotund> Perhaps I'll just set up a PPA w/ it. 
<Rotund> siretart, is there already a PPA for OpenAL Soft
<siretart> Rotund: oh, there is?  where? 
<siretart> Rotund: perhaps you could reupload all reverse deps there? 
<ScottK2> nxvl: I uploaded tinyerp-server after some additional changes.   Once it's published, please have a look and see if you have questions about the changes. 
<Rotund> siretart, I was asking if there WAS one.   You sounded like you knew what I was talking about and had looked into it. 
<Rotund> siretart, I'll just make a new one. 
<enarxe0> nxvl:  estas? 
<siretart> Rotund: oh, no.  not that I knew of. 
<siretart> Rotund: I just happen to know the issue with openal soft because I did the last uploads of it to debian
<siretart> AFAIUI, openal soft drops some optional extensions that the openal si provided. 
<siretart> so I'd expect to break on games like scorched3d, etc. 
<Adri2000> ScottK2: I think there is a bug in wx2.6's debian/rules.  the target which creates debian/control from debian/control.in doesn't work.  that's probably why you/mok0 only modified debian/control and didn't realize there was a control.in
<Rotund> I'll check, but they claim it's just the Loki ones. 
<Rotund> siretart, All the Loki games included their own OpenAL anyways. 
<ScottK2> Adri2000: You want to fix it up.   Also it needs the python versions set to 2.4- in debian control (mok has a patch for that in the xml removal bug)
<Adri2000> ScottK2: oh, and you uploaded wx2.8 also.  I had a patch for bug #193340 to apply to it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 193340 in wxwidgets2.8 "Filezilla goes inactive if not interacted with" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193340
<ScottK2> Adri2000: I wish you'd said something. 
<ScottK2> I'll ask to have it rejected and we can do it again. 
<ScottK2> Actually we don't need it rejected, it'll just get over-written. 
<ScottK2> Adri2000: make a debdiff to mok0's version and attach it to your bug. 
<Adri2000> ScottK2: still it'd be good to have it rejected, as I'd like some testing of the patch for #193340, it'll probably not be ready to upload right now
<hellboy195> RainCT: around? 
<ScottK2> Adri2000: It won't hurt if it's uploaded.   We can do another one later. 
<ScottK2> No rush. 
<RainCT> hellboy195: yeh
<hellboy195> RainCT: thx for looking at my stuff.  for ckermit I'm not sure if a merge is now worth it ,..
<RainCT> hellboy195: bug number please
<siretart> Rotund: that's nice and dandy for loki, but we *do* ship software that uses the system openal
<Adri2000> ScottK2: I'd like not to have to do another upload to fix the previous.  so being sure the patch (that I honestly don't understand) fixes the issue and doesn't cause any regression is a good idea imho
<hellboy195> RainCT: bug #201088
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201088 in ckermit "Please sync ckermit 211-10 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201088
<ScottK2> Adri2000: The upload I did is just for python-xml removal.   Are you saying there's a problem with that? 
<Adri2000> ScottK2: except for that one you also only modified debian/control, no.  but to not waste buildd time, it'd be better to have only one upload for python-xml and my patch
<ScottK2> Adri2000: Are talking 2.8 or 2.6? 
<Adri2000> s/except for/except if for/
<Adri2000> 2.8
<ScottK2> OK. 
<RainCT> hellboy195: true, I don't think those changes are necessary for Hardy
<Rotund> siretart, I know, but I'd doubt ANY uses the crappy Loki extensions (they really were bad)
<Adri2000> ScottK2: so can I ask to reject this one?  and I'll include the python-xml fix in my upload
<ScottK2> I asked. 
<hellboy195> RainCT: Setting to "Invalid" ? 
<ScottK2> No need for you to. 
<Adri2000> ScottK2: ok
<RainCT> hellboy195: yes
<hellboy195> RainCT: k, thx
<Adri2000> ScottK2: I'll also fix wx2.6
<ScottK2> K
<Adri2000> ScottK2: in the bug report you say to build-dep on python (>= 2.4).  does XS-Python-Version: >= 2.4 actually do that?  or are both needed? 
<ScottK2> Adri2000: Both can't hurt.   XB-Python-Version should be sufficient for the binary since any 2.4 will do. 
<ScottK2> I don't actually remember what that will do for the build-deps. 
<ScottK2> It might be interesting to set XS-Python-Version: >= 2.6 on a package and see if it builds
<nixternal> Tranquilizers 1, neice & nephew 0
<ScottK2> Shouldn't that be Tranquilizers 2 then? 
<nixternal> true
<nixternal> cuz I didn't share the same dart on them
<Adri2000> ScottK2: it builds in my pbuilder with XS-Python-Version: >= 2.6.  so I guess adding a versioned build-dep is better
<ScottK2> Yes. 
<ScottK2> Adri2000: It's rejected
<Adri2000> ok
<thenewme91> Hi all, I was wondering if somebody could possibly take a moment of their time and look at the patch I've attached to bug 196861? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 196861 in prism "desktop icons created by prism don't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196861
<fta> thenewme91, i packaged prism initially
<fta> what's wrong with the lauchers ? 
<fta> they work here
<fta> oh, i see. 
<fta> thenewme91, I'll fix it with a few other bugs in my todo list
<thenewme91> okay, thanks
<fta> np, i wanted to package prism 0.9 but i'm stuck with icon licenses now that the webapps are no longer redistributed by mozilla. 
<fta> so until I find a solution, i'll stick with this 0.8 svn snapshot
<Rotund> k
<nxvl> ScottK2: ok, thnx, i will take a look
<slicer> I have a postinst script which needs to reload the dbus configuration.  I currently do this as "invoke-rc.d --quiet dbus reload".  However, if dbus is not present, this fails with exit code 100, which breaks the script (it's 'set -e').  What's the recommended way to query if dbus is installed?  Just [ -f /etc/init.d/dbus ] ? 
<ScottK2> slicer: What happens then if dbus is installed, but not running? 
<slicer> ScottK2: That works fine, the dbus init script handles 'reload' in the right way. 
<ScottK2> OK
<slicer> ScottK2: The problem comes when it's not installed at all. 
<slicer> I see there's now a bug report for this as well: bug 202672
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202672 in mumble "installing mumble-server requires dbus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202672
<ScottK2> That's a pretty amazing coincidence that coming in right while you were working on it. 
<slicer> ScottK2: No, they were talking to me on IRC :)
<ScottK2> Can you confirm what they guy says in the bug about it still working without dbus. 
<ScottK2> OK.   That makes more sense
<slicer> It works, it will just have reduced functionality. 
<ScottK2> [ -f /etc/init.d/dbus ] isn't the most reliable way to tell you if it's installed, but it is a good way to tell you if the init is present (which is what you really want to know). 
<slicer> Kind of like xmms without mp3 and ogg support. 
<slicer> ScottK2: Ok, I'll try that then and have the user test it. 
<emgent> heya
<emgent> heya
#ubuntu-motu 2008-03-16
 * jdong smacks $world for randomly setting In Progress on backports bugs
<jdong> I wish Launchpad had an ACL
<Fujitsu> jdong: Bug #126516
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126516 in malone "would like limited access control for status field changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126516
<jdong> ah, there's always a launchpad bug. 
<tonyyarusso> Okay, I demand answers.   Who uploaded the changes to Gnome Solitaire that made it infinitely harder?   ;)
<jdong> vi debian/patches/99-make-it-harder-for-tonyyarusso.dpatch..... :D
<tonyyarusso> yeah, that's the one! 
 * tonyyarusso wonders if jdong took that 9 minutes to look up which patch system gnome-games uses
<jdong> tonyyarusso: LOL I pulled that out of thin air
<jdong> tonyyarusso: I have a feeling though the GNOME folks like dpatch
<tonyyarusso> likely enough
<cyberix> Are man pages UTF-8
<persia> cyberix: Ideally. 
<jdong> wow gnome-system-monitor 2.22 actually builds on gutsy
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Good morning.  Do you have few minutes to take a look at a debdiff?  .desktop file related
<DktrKranz> Iulian, sure
<DktrKranz> btw, good morning :)
<Iulian> Awesome! 
<Iulian> Actually it's a merge from Debian. 
<Iulian> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5735/plain/
<Iulian> ... with some small changes. 
<Iulian> Ohh, it's bug #202728
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202728 in pipewalker "Pipewalker does not appear in GNOME menu" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202728
<DktrKranz> Iulian, personally I wouldn't merge it because our deltas are limited to deprecated field in .desktop file.  Bart seems quite responsive, so you may want him to adjust .desktop to be freedesktop compliant and sync it later. 
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Great, thanks a lot :)
<DktrKranz> If you think he won't prepare another upload for this cosmetic change, you may want to sync current version, so we have a menu entry at least. 
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Yea, that's what I thought in the first time, I'm not so sure he will upload soon with this change. 
<Iulian> DktrKranz: So, I think I will sync it. 
<DktrKranz> Good :)
<Iulian> Let me take a look at the wiki page to see what's the easiest way to sync a pkg. 
 * Iulian is afk - breakfast! 
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Should I file a bug in LP? 
<DktrKranz> Iulian, you can edit current one to reflect a sync
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Right
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Done
<Iulian> DktrKranz: I've edited the current bug and subscribed u-u-s.
<DktrKranz> I see
<DktrKranz> I need to re-enable my VM before
<Iulian> Heh
<DktrKranz> u-u-s is very populated these days :)
<Iulian> Ohh, that's awesome! 
<DktrKranz> Unapproved too :P
<Iulian> Ah
<DktrKranz> 1  â 20  of 421 results
<DktrKranz> :)
<Iulian> Whoah ;-)
<Hobbsee> hah.   you would have thought that people would have learned by now that a package that has been fakesynced numerous times 8probably8 can't be synced. 
<crimsun> interesting.   Is "probably" emphasised there?   It appears as "8probably8" in hotwire-shell. 
<Iulian> Here too. :) 
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: 8? 
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: enoshift. 
<Hobbsee> crimsun: my metakeys are broken
<jpatrick> :)
<Hobbsee> i was going for star
<hash> Hi, when is the Hardy Universe repo frozen and Debian syncs disallowed? 
<cody-somerville> ScottK, What in particular did you find confusing about the changelog for gdesklets? 
<fta> slangasek, what was the problem with prism target ? 
<slicer> I'm not sure how to mark bug 202766.  What the user requests has already been included in the upstream SVN, but as it's a feature change it will not make it into hardy.  Should I set the bug as "Confirmed" and leave it like that until Intrepid  development starts? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202766 in mumble "mumble-server uses weird directories to store its information" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202766
<james_w> slicer: sounds sensible to me.  Add a comment explaining the situation as well. 
<protonchris> Any u-u-s around? 
<jdong> ScottK: I'm blessing the Firefox 3.0b4 backport (bug 191796); I subscribed you to it, let me know if there's anything you need (I know it's a huge one)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191796 in gutsy-backports "Please backport firefox-3.0 3.0~b3 final" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191796
<fta> jdong, why b3 final when b4 final is already out ?  it will confuse users. 
<jdong> fta: the title has not been changed
<jdong> fta: the packages indeed are of the latest b4 finals in Hardy
<fta> could you please update the title ? 
<jdong> and spam 25 people?  Sure :)
<fta> is it a full backport or did you revert some of the changes ? 
<jdong> fta: see attached debdiff.  Several changes had to be reverted
<jdong> primarily the ones that set firefox-3.0 as the default firefox
<hellboy195> jdong: is it worth it to backport it?  why not wait until the next beta or final? 
<jdong> hellboy195: I think so
<fta> jdong, oh, ok, my changes are back in :)
<jdong> fta: :)
<jdong> hellboy195: ff3b4 is already a huge improvement over the ff3b3~ backport
<jdong> hellboy195: people are already getdebbing for these packages
<hellboy195> jdong: ah if there already exist a b3 backport than you are right ;) Did it start with the b3 backport? 
<fta> jdong, that means no system cairo (hence no subpixel lcd filter) and no system nss/nspr.  Should be ok
<fta> oh, i would advice to drop system-jpeg too
<fta> advise
<jdong> fta: system nss/nspr is too old on gutsy, I was told by asac to do that
<jdong> fta: what does dropping system-jpeg do? 
<fta> system libjpeg is causing the infamous black rectangle
<fta> mozilla patched it quite heavily :P
<fta> asac tried to sort this out in hardy but it's not done yet
<jdong> ah
<jdong>    --with-system-jpeg=/usr \
<jdong> drop that?  and the build-dep on libjpeg? 
<fta> yes, or better s,--with-system-jpeg=/usr,--without-system-jpeg, so we remember it's wanted
<fta> like in about:buildconfig
<jdong> ok
<fta> it's as you want.  you can also keep it and handle the black rectangles bugs
<jdong> LOL I'll take your word for it that I shouldn't use system jpeg :)
<cody-somerville> jdong, Want to do me a favour? ;] 
<jdong> cody-somerville: whoa I don't swing that way bro...
<jdong> cody-somerville: but more seriously, what? :) 
<cody-somerville> jdong, pfft.  :P
<cody-somerville> jdong, I think a lot of people would give you cookies if you were to sponsor bug #197650 ;]
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 197650 in gdesklets "gdesklets in hardy unusable due to an unhandled error" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197650
<jdong> cody-somerville: cool I'll go take a shower while xulrunner and firefox are building, then I'll take a look at that for you
<cody-somerville> jdong, thanks
<hellboy195> LucidFox: last change to do the beagle merge ;)
<jdong> LOL that's enticing
<jdong> just like "Hey Scott last chance to do a 120MB backport!!" 
<hellboy195> jdong: well, if you have somone other that wants to do it ;)
<jdong> :) I've got my hands full
<hellboy195> jdong: ^^
<cody-somerville> :)
<jdong>                swig,
<jdong>                libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.10.0)
<jdong>                libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.10.0),
<jdong> amazing. 
<jdong> the Debian sid package ships with a defective control
 * jdong regenerates it? 
<cody-somerville> What package is that for? 
<jdong> cody-somerville: that's your gdesklets package
<jdong> it's the same way in control.in too
 * jdong scratches head
<cody-somerville> wow
<cody-somerville> You're right. 
<jdong> would you like to fix that and resubmit the debdiff? :) 
<cody-somerville> jdong, I would love to
<jdong> fantastic
<cody-somerville> jdong, oink :)
<jdong> cody-somerville: ok, lemme try this one out :)
<jdong> cody-somerville: while I'm playing with this, would you mind submitting this to Debian? 
<cody-somerville> If I can figure out how, sure :)
<jdong> it just gives your e-mail client a workout :)
<jdong> cody-somerville: also, I don't like how the package seems to have two glib build-deps too
<jdong> +               libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.4.1-2),
<jdong> +               libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.10.0)
<jdong> I am guessing the former should be removed. 
<jdong> (is it just me, or is Debian QA really subpar on this package?) 
<cody-somerville> should I go with the higher versioned libglib2.0-dev? 
<jdong> that's what I would do
<cody-somerville> new debdiff uploaded
<jdong> awesome
<protonchris> jdong: Are you up for looking at another package and potentially sponsoring an upload?   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glom/+bug/201385
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201385 in glom "Hardy: Please update glom to latest version" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<cody-somerville> jdong, Okay.  I filed two bugs in debian (I hope)
<jdong> cody-somerville: awesome.  I'm just awaiting a build test before uploading
<cody-somerville> splendid
 * jdong updates his pbuilder
<cody-somerville> :)
<jdong> urgh xulrunner builds take way too much RAM :)
<fta> eheh
<cody-somerville> :)
<jdong> urgh I need some server-class SCSI drives too
<fta> jdong, I know what you mean, i'm building nspr/nss/xul1.9/ff3/sm2/tb3 chained
 * jdong writes Dear Santa letter...
<jdong> fta: yeah there's one link step for xul that evicts 80% of my desktop into swap
<jdong> that hurts. 
<fta> when it links libxul.so
<fta> and also libxpcom.so
<fta> huge monsters
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> but it looks like it's over
<jdong> I'm into dh_install phase
<jdong> which XFS still doesn't like....
<jdong> cody-somerville: gdesklets uploaded
<cody-somerville> jdong, Thanks :)
<cody-somerville> jdong, Do you want to take a quick look at gdesklets-data too?  <g>
<jdong> bug#? 
<cody-somerville> bug #202281
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 202281 in gdesklets-data "Sponsor gdesklets-data 0.35.6-2ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202281
<croSmiley> hi all
<croSmiley> isis there any application that can close other programs if they are inactive for some time: this is the thread => http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=725624
<croSmiley> *is
<jdong> croSmiley: off topic for this channel
<croSmiley> sry, can you direct me to right place pls
<jdong> croSmiley: #ubuntu is the general support channel
<jdong> croSmiley: the kind of behavior you want to implement probably belongs in a plugin to your window manager though
<protonchris> jdong: sorry for bugging you earlier.   I was mistaken when I thought you were on the universe sponsors team. 
<jdong> protonchris: oh, no problems, I'm always glad to help out.  Currently I have way too many builds going though :D
<croSmiley> well, thanks anyway, my search for solution continues somewhere else...
<jdong> cody-somerville: -data uploaded
<cody-somerville> jdong, thanks :)
<cody-somerville> jdong, did gdesklets-data get rejected? 
<cody-somerville> jdong, oh, nvm
<cody-somerville> There it is
<jdong> cody-somerville: both are queued
 * cody-somerville nods. 
<YokoZar> Who moderates the motu-council mailing list? 
<YokoZar> I've had an email response to my application queued up there for a couple of days
<jpatrick> YokoZar: I believe dholbach does, but he's not here
<YokoZar> jpatrick: thanks
<emgent> heya people
<geser> YokoZar: usually dholbach does the moderation but every MC member can do it
<tuxmaniac> does anybody know whether the dynamic tick is enabled by default in the Ubuntu kernel? 
<slytherin> tuxmaniac: you mean the one that reduces power consumption? 
<tuxmaniac> sladen, yes
<slytherin> tuxmaniac: I think it is enabled by default
<james_w> Is there a FTBFS list? 
<albert23> james_w: Yes there is: http://members.ping.de/~mb/buildstatus_hardy/
<james_w> albert23: thanks. 
<slytherin> Hi.  I have fixed the configure script of evolution-scalix package.  But I am unable to fix compilation errors.  Anyone wants to take it further? 
<zul> what happened to ubuntuwire? 
<jpatrick> zul: I believe we're waiting on imbrandon or something...
<zul> ah
<C10uD> hello
<C10uD> i'm figuring out how i can set some environment var that makes dpkg-buildpackage not asking for my gpg passphrase every time i build a package
<james_w> C10uD: do you mean debuild rather than dpkg-buildpackage? 
<C10uD> erm, yes (?) 
<james_w> C10uD: you can build with -uc -us
<james_w> DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-uc -us" may be what you want
<C10uD> aren't that options removing the signature thing? 
<james_w> C10uD: pardon? 
<C10uD> disclaimer: i'm a packaging Ã±oob
<james_w> C10uD: that's not a problem.  I just didn't understand your question, could you rephrase it please? 
<C10uD> oh ok, well
<slangasek> fta: the milestone is how we track things that are blockers for the beta; prism really isn't...
<C10uD> i'm asking if those parameters actually remove the gpg signature from the dpkg created files
<slangasek> fta: so I've marked the bugs as release-critical for hardy instead
<james_w> C10uD: they will stop it from trying to create one and so asking for your key. 
<james_w> C10uD: if you want to add one after you can use debsign
<C10uD> ..that doesn't ask for a passphrase? 
<fta> slangasek, oh, ok.  i've posted a debdiff now waiting for a sponsor
<james_w> C10uD: debsign will, you can't create a signature without a passphrase. 
<james_w> you only need to sign your packages for some uses though, for instance uploading. 
<C10uD> well i asked if it's possible to set it up as an environment variable
<james_w> C10uD: your passphrase? 
<C10uD> yep
<james_w> that's not a good idea. 
<C10uD> well i don't care about security _that_ much
<james_w> well no tool will support you doing that. 
<C10uD> ow
<james_w> C10uD: well if you don't care about security don't sign the package. 
<jpatrick> C10uD: maybe gpg-agent? 
<james_w> if you want to do something like upload it to some Ubuntu infrastructure then you have to care enough to sign the package. 
<james_w> and as jpatrick suggest gpg-agent is a much better solution. 
<C10uD> well, i'll take a look at that then
<C10uD> thanks
<RainCT> C10uD: if you use seahorse you can also tell it to remember the password
<C10uD> uhm.. apt-getting right now then
<C10uD> thanks RainCT it worked
<C10uD> now a minor thing: how can i split in two lines a long link in the debian/changelog file
<C10uD> ? 
<RainCT> C10uD: np.  you could use tinyurl.com (I don't really like this idea, though)
<C10uD> well i'm focusing on building my package automagically:P i wanted to know if there's a way to split the link and make it still usable :p
<C10uD> if there's not, well np
<C10uD> :P
<RainCT> C10uD: not that I know about.. but there shouldn't be any problem leaving it on a single line, the 75 characters limit is not a hard requirement
<C10uD> sadly, it is for this link :P
<C10uD> well, doesn't matter
<C10uD> god bless sourceforge that allows his name to be cut in sf
<C10uD> :D
<PMantis> Does anyone have a *simple* .deb packaging guide?  I need to package a bash shell script - so no need for make, ./configure, etc.  Google, Ubuntu Wiki, etc = no success yet. 
<superm1_> PMantis, if its a simple shell script, you might consider just modeling it around a package that has such things.   one i wrote is like that, ipod-convenience
<PMantis> I'm not sure what you mean there... find a package for a shell script and modify it? 
<superm1_> PMantis, well i wrote the ipod-convenience package, and it is a package that includes a shell script, some symlinks and debconf magic
<superm1_> its very straightforward
<superm1_> so its a good example to supplement the packaging guide
<superm1_> and something to give you a stepping stone
<PMantis> So I'd need to reverse-engineer the package to figure it out? 
<Iulian> DktrKranz: ping
<RainCT> DktrKranz: Hey, is there any reason why you haven't ACK'd the pipewalker sync? 
<DktrKranz> Iulian, pong
<Iulian> DktrKranz: See RainCT's question :)
<DktrKranz> RainCT, I'm ill to the bones :)
<Iulian> That's what I wanted to ask you. 
<DktrKranz> this flu is killing me
<RainCT> DktrKranz: oh, that's bad :(
<RainCT> Iulian: well, ack'd
<PMantis> DktrKranz: Ick, hope you feel better
 * DktrKranz too
<PMantis> Whoever you are :-)
<RainCT> heh
<DktrKranz> I have to go in office anyway, hoping not harming business :P
<Iulian> Hehe
<DktrKranz> at least, I didn't harm Hardy :P
<Iulian> Are you sure? :) 
<PMantis> Is debuild needed for non binary packages? 
<RainCT> PMantis: yes
<superm1_> PMantis, if you grab the source package (dsc, diff.tar.gz, orig.tar.gz)
<superm1_> you can extract it
<superm1_> and you can then make your changes there
<DktrKranz> Iulian, I'm not sure when I'm healty, should I now? :) 
<RainCT> PMantis: it will create (or update, if they already exist) the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz files
<PMantis> I have no source package... I have a single bash shell script, and want to package it. 
<superm1_> PMantis, right - i'm saying you grab my source package, and then you put your script in place
<superm1_> and make the appropriate changes to the rest of the source package to match your script
<PMantis> Ahhhhhh
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Of course you should.  :P
<PMantis> ok
<DktrKranz> heh
<emgent> heya
<emgent> :)
 * PMantis doesn't understand why he needs 100 files in a package to distribute a single script
<superm1_> PMantis, that's why the packaging guide and debian new maintainers guides exist :)
<PMantis> heh
<RainCT> PMantis: packaging is complex and misterious ;P
<azeem> w25
<azeem> oops
<PMantis> Man, I just found a .orig.tar.gz file - must have been made by dh_make.. but it's empty
<hellboy195> RainCT: connection problems? 
<jpatrick> hellboy195: he's on a modem the poor guy
<hellboy195> damn it
 * hellboy195 is happy to have 16 Mbit ^^
<DktrKranz> hellboy195, mind give some to me? 
<hellboy195> DktrKranz: hmm over the mountains?  ^^
<DktrKranz> by mail :)
<hellboy195> xD
<PMantis> I think I'm figuring some things out about this packaging thing.  heh
<PMantis> Should I place my scrips in /usr/local/sbin or /usr/sbin  ? 
<PMantis> I want to adhere to standards as much as possible
<superm1_> emgent, i dont have a my password with me so i can't PM. 
<superm1_> what'd you need? 
<emgent> superm1_: np, solved
<PMantis> If the first line of a changelog is:
<PMantis> hello (2.1.1-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low
<PMantis> Will it work on debian? * I* know the package will work, but will it install? 
<PMantis> errr
<PMantis> I mean, will it work on dapper
<superm1_> that is used for controlling which version its built against
<superm1_> you can still manually build it in a dapper pbuilder or similar
<superm1_> and run it there
 * PMantis tilts his head like a dog
<superm1_> so in short, 'yes' it will install
<soren> PMantis: If the binary package is built on hardy, it'll most likely state a dependency on a more recent libc version that is available in Dapper. 
<superm1_> soren, it is a script that likely won't be depending on libc
<superm1_> from what i've understood from what he said so far
<soren> superm1_: hello is a script? 
<soren> Since when? 
<PMantis> soren: You're a little out of the loop from my "odd" non-compiled package. :) 
<PMantis> soren: No, that was a copy/paste from the example I'm looking at. 
<PMantis> my package is(will be) of a bash script
<soren> Right, and for that example, my answer is correct :)
<PMantis> heh
<superm1_> :)
<soren> PMantis: For a bash script, you won't have any problems of that kind. 
<PMantis> cool
<PMantis> Oooooh, debuild got much further this time...
<PMantis> I think my rules file needs tweaking:
<PMantis> make[1]: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.   Stop. 
<superm1_> PMantis, that example rules file that was in my package doesn't use a Makefile at all. 
<PMantis> Yeah, there's no Makefile... but debuilder still want to run make
<PMantis> I commented that out in rules - got further. 
<superm1_> PMantis, i'm saying in ipod-convenience's debian/rules, there were no calls to such thing though
<superm1_> it literally just includes the script in the place that you tell it to
<PMantis> I don't see a debian dir in ipod-convenience_0.8.orig.tar.gz
<superm1_> PMantis, its in the .diff.tar.gz
<PMantis> I untarred your orig, deleted etc, other dirs, placed my own scripts in it, removed *.1, tarred it back up under my own name, and use dh_make -f ../filename
<PMantis> All is ok, except for that... I'l look for your diff
<superm1_> PMantis, what you will want to do is "dget FILE.dsc"
<superm1_> that will grab the whole package
<superm1_> and then dpkg-source -x *dsc
<superm1_> which will extract it and put the debian directory in place
<superm1_> the debian/ directory is never supposed to be included in the .orig.tar.gz
<PMantis> I didn't expect it to be, since that's packaging instructions
<PMantis> hmm, I usually use wget
<superm1_> PMantis, yeah dget is a nifty little tool
<PMantis> I think when I'm done with this, I need to make a howto
<superm1_> PMantis, well just improve the packaging guide for pitfalls that you missed
<PMantis> packing up one file shouldn't be this hard...
<superm1_> by following it
<PMantis> superm1_: Google is not helping me... I can't find your diff.tar.gz
<superm1_> PMantis, when you dget from the web url
<superm1_> it pulls it for you
<superm1_> eg dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/i/ipod-convenience/ipod-convenience_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc
<superm1_> that will pull it
<PMantis> ok, thanks... couldn't figure out the url
<superm1_> it also lives in bzr here if you wanted to see it https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ipod-touch/ipod-convenience/trunk
<PMantis> superm1_: I have it now, thanks!  Your rules file looks like it pulls an upstream file...
<PMantis> am I reading that right? 
<superm1_> i am upstream :)
<superm1_> PMantis, that get-orig-source target is only for rebuilding the package source
<superm1_> if you only had the debian/ directory
<superm1_> its for grabbing new upstream versions
<superm1_> your rules file can be just those first 2 lines
<PMantis> ok, I can handle that. 
<PMantis> :)
<superm1_> PMantis, and then choosing where things get installed is handled by debian/install
<superm1_> in my case
<PMantis> hmmm, it built a _i386.deb
<PMantis> me looks a the files again
<PMantis> Changing Architecture to all
 * PMantis installs fakeroot and tries again
<LaserJock> hellboy195: ping
<PMantis> Hmmm, low traffic here.  OK to paste 4 lines?  I have a gpg error from debuild now. 
<hellboy195> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> hellboy195: I had mpqc in the gfortran bug assigned to myself :-)
<hellboy195> damn it
<hellboy195> sry
<hellboy195> didn't notice that
<LaserJock> hellboy195: I hadn't gotten to filing the bug yet but you might want to ping in case somebody has already working on it
<LaserJock> no worries
<LaserJock> I hadn't done it yet so no harm done for sure
<hellboy195> LaserJock: what did my mentor (Andrea) always say to me.  FIRST OF ALL: Files a Bug ^^
<PMantis> Hmmm, debuild is creating a new dir, adding usr/share.  etc.. but none of my files are being placed there.  I missed something. 
<hellboy195> LaserJock: maybe I can change my sync (again) to a merge !? 
<LaserJock> hellboy195: I reassigned the the gfortran mpqc task to you
<LaserJock> hellboy195: nah, a sync looked good
<hellboy195> first sync
<hellboy195> than transition? 
<hellboy195> *then
<LaserJock> hmm? 
<LaserJock> what do you mean? 
<PMantis> Hmmmm
<PMantis> debuild causes debsign to fail... but if I run debsign myself, it works. 
<LaserJock> PMantis: sometimes you have to give it -k<gpg key id>
<LaserJock> PMantis: and are you installing files to debian/<packagename>/usr/share/ ? 
<hellboy195> LaserJock: ah sry, Debian folks already did it ^^
<PMantis> LaserJock: it finds the key, asks for password? 
<PMantis> That was supposed to be a statement
<LaserJock> hellboy195: yeah, I'm part of the Debian team that works on those packages, that's why I picked them up
<hellboy195> LaserJock: hmm I don't want to steal you work.  maybe you can ACK my sync?  ^^
<PMantis> LaserJock: debian/<packagename>/usr/share/  ?  I'm not sure how to answer.  I'm barely limping along with howtos, thanks to help in this channel. 
<LaserJock> PMantis: well, the .deb is actually created form a temporary directory made in debian/
<LaserJock> usually it's called debian/<package name>/
<PMantis> LaserJock: This is a two file package.  a bash script, and a config file in /etc
<LaserJock> so to put a file in /usr/share/ on the user's system you actually want to install the files to debian/<packagename>/usr/share/
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> PMantis: can you pastebin the debian/rules file you're using? 
<PMantis> LaserJock: I think I'm beyond the stage of needing that info right now.  The package is being created, but it can't sign it. 
<PMantis> LaserJock: Sure, but pastebin is overkill
<hellboy195> LaserJock: btw, What I saw at many transitions.  Why not wait until debian has and merge/sync? 
<PMantis> Besides the she-bang with make, I have:
<PMantis> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<LaserJock> hellboy195: well, that's what we are trying to do
<hellboy195> LaserJock: hmm, really? 
<LaserJock> hellboy195: for packages where Debian has done the transition we sync/merge from them
<PMantis> LaserJock: I can paste the results. ( 4 lines) May I paste here, or should I pastebin? 
<LaserJock> hellboy195: if they  haven't transitioned yet (there shouldn't be many) then we'd need to do it ourselves
<LaserJock> PMantis: hmm, not yet
<hellboy195> LaserJock: why not wait if we are sure they will do
<LaserJock> hellboy195: because we have no time
<LaserJock> we are at Beta! 
<hellboy195> LaserJock: true but 1-2 days we could wait ^^
<LaserJock> this is a last-minute transition
<LaserJock> probably
<LaserJock> if we *know* Debian will have it in 1-2 days sure
<hellboy195> LaserJock: so also python-xml
<LaserJock> but most of the time we don't know
<PMantis> LaserJock: OK, NP.  Let me know what to do. :) 
<LaserJock> PMantis: let's fix the signing problem first :-)
<PMantis> That's what I meant. :) 
<LaserJock> did you try debuild with -k ? 
<LaserJock> -k<keyid>
<PMantis> Trying... (it finds the key anyhow, BTW)
<PMantis> No change when using -k
<LaserJock> but it doesn't take the passphrase? 
<PMantis> It asks for my passphrase to unlock the key, and crashes. 
<LaserJock> crashes!! 
<LaserJock> that's unusual
<PMantis> Yeah, if I type the wrong pw on purpose, it tells me so properly. 
<PMantis> But if I give it the right pw, I get a fatal error
<LaserJock> but when you use debsign it works? 
<PMantis> Yup
<LaserJock> crazy
<PMantis> even contacts the agent for a GUI prompt
<PMantis> debuild: fatal error at line 1155:
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess you could look at debuild and see what's on line 1155 :-)
<LaserJock> it must have some issue with your key
<PMantis> LaserJock: system('debsign', @debsign_opts, $changes) == 0
<PMantis> I just wonder what's in @debsign_opts
<LaserJock> I don't see a bug in Debian that seems relevant
<LaserJock> PMantis: have you tried it on a different package by chance? 
<PMantis> nope
<PMantis> trying. 
<PMantis> running debchange first
<PMantis> Nope, failed then, too
<PMantis> on superm1_'s package
<superm1_> PMantis, you need to make sure to put your own gpg key in the changelog
<superm1_> er name/email
<superm1_> not key itself
<PMantis> superm1_: Yes, I realize that. 
<PMantis> I asked for my key passphrase, crashes. 
<PMantis> superm1_, LaserJock, I'm running debuild with no parameters, BTW>
<superm1_> PMantis, there may be something you need to change in /etc/devscripts.conf
<LaserJock> I don't know why it'd crash though
<superm1_> well nvm i didnt change it on mine anymore
<superm1_> i used to change something
<StevenHarperUk> Hi, My package has been built by the PPA server and the python-central (>= 0.5.6) dependancy has been changed to python-central (>= 0.6) : this has broken my PPA  as python-central (>= 0.6) doesnt exist... can anyone help? 
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: what package? 
<StevenHarperUk> https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive : easycrypt 0.2.2.7
<PMantis> LaserJock, superm1_: Here's the end of the debuild output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5749/
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: can you describe the problem a little more
<LaserJock> you're trying to do a backport or similar?? 
<StevenHarperUk> OK : my source has the dependancy in the file debian/control -- Depends: ${python:Depends}, python-gtk2, python-gnome2-extras
<PMantis> superm1_, LaserJock: This happens with just debsign: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5750/
<StevenHarperUk> This on my machine is 0.5.6
<StevenHarperUk> on the ppa is >0.6
<PMantis> Of course, my domain isn't blah-blah.com for real. :) 
<LaserJock> right
<StevenHarperUk> Has the PPA used a Hardy version? 
<superm1_> PMantis, you aren't using this via ssh are you? 
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: if you uploaded it for Hardy, yes
<PMantis> no, direct on my laptop. 
<StevenHarperUk> ah right : should I hard code my PPA one? 
<StevenHarperUk> what's a better value : I want ti to work on Gutsy also
<superm1_> PMantis, i've run into that before too though
<superm1_> are you on hardy? 
<superm1_> PMantis, it's fixed on hardy...
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: I'm afraid I'm still not getting it all the way
<StevenHarperUk> change   ${python:Depends}     to    python, python-central (>= 0.5.6)   ??? 
<LaserJock> why do you want to do that? 
<StevenHarperUk> Because I use the parameter : ${python:depends} it's making a package that has bad dependancys for Gutsy machines
<LaserJock> *if* you build it on Hardy
<LaserJock> if you upload it to Gutsy it should work fine
<StevenHarperUk> Yeh but you cant make to builds with the same version number
<LaserJock> right
<StevenHarperUk> I am trying to keep my PPA the same as the Hardy build
<superm1_> hm so how do you get sbuild to build and keep the binaries that are arch any when building on amd64? 
<StevenHarperUk> People are using it before they upgrade to hardy
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk:  ah, well, good luck with that :-)
<StevenHarperUk> if I make the PPA for gutsy will that be enough? 
<LaserJock> yeah, I would just upload it to gutsy with a different version
<PMantis> superm1_: No, I'm on 7.04
<StevenHarperUk> Just that people have My PPA in the source.list They would all have to change it....
<LaserJock> why? 
<superm1_> PMantis, then you do need to modify something in /etc/devscripts.conf
<LaserJock> they shouldn't have to change a thing
<superm1_> to let it keep the DISPLAY variable
<StevenHarperUk> But there current soucre is : deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/stevenharperuk/ubuntu hardy main universe
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: your PPA works for all available Ubuntu releases, dapper - hardy
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: why would Gutsy users use that
<PMantis> superm1_: Ahh,  ok.  I'll look but don't know what to change yet. :-) 
<StevenHarperUk> cause I have been using that
<StevenHarperUk> Its my fault I know
<LaserJock> well, that's kinda missing the point of having a cool PPA :-)
<StevenHarperUk> I have learned a lot since starting it
<LaserJock> are you telling people to use that particular line somewhere external to LP? 
<StevenHarperUk> Yes : its my fault
<LaserJock> could you change it you think? 
<StevenHarperUk> I hate the way I have to change the verion number between distros
<PMantis> superm1_: Ahh, foud it via Google
<StevenHarperUk> I have many Users (hundreds
<LaserJock> well, it allows you to do this exact thing though
<LaserJock> this is why the system was created
<StevenHarperUk> Yes Its a great system
<LaserJock> well, you can try manually changing the python-central dep
<StevenHarperUk> hmm Im not sure if I should just Hack the python-central line in
<StevenHarperUk> Yeh
<StevenHarperUk> Do you know if my last uplaod 0.2.2.7 could be cleared
<StevenHarperUk> or do I have to change the Number - I really dont want ot
<PMantis> superm1_: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, worked... all the way through. 
<LaserJock> but I personally would get people to use the right repository
<LaserJock> there could be a lot more problems than just python-central
<PMantis> superm1_, LaserJock: Thank you both! 
<StevenHarperUk> Yeh but that means for every release I ave to use 2 numbers
<LaserJock> but that's trivial
<LaserJock> a lot better for your users
<LaserJock> you are giving Gutsy users packages built on Hardy
<StevenHarperUk> Yes thats a very good point
<LaserJock> you have the potential to have more problems in the future
<LaserJock> I know what you mean though, it's difficult if you've already got it "out there"
<StevenHarperUk> Ok you seem to have cleared it all up for me now : I will start using to reps..
<StevenHarperUk> gunna make my source controla nightmare..
<LaserJock> but if it's possible to let people know they should switch I think it'll be less of a headache for you and them long-term
<PMantis> The package looks good to my untrained eyes. 
 * PMantis tries to install it on his own system. 
<ScottK2> cody-somerville: I couldn't tell if what you were adding and what you were removing and why. 
<superm1_> okay well here's a more direct question i guess.   how do you tell sbuild what architecture builds the arch 'any' package? 
<superm1_> er arch all
<superm1_> looks like its just the -A switch..
<superm1_> but how is that saved to ~/.sbuildrc
<StevenHarperUk> LaserJock: Ok thanks for the info : I have posted to my users to expect a new PPA link for gutsy machines soon : thanks for all the help
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUk: no problem
<LaserJock> what's the default gcc version in Hardy
<ScottK2> 4.2 AFAIK. 
<ScottK2> 4.3 isn't actually released yet, is it? 
<LaserJock> I wasn't sure
<LaserJock> I just saw a bug in Debian fixed for a FTBFS with 4.3 so I wondered if that's what we're using
<ScottK2> Building with 4.3 is a release goal for both Debian and Ubuntu, but we aren't actually using it. 
<ScottK2> Since 4.3 is more picky in some regards it makes sense to work on it early. 
<LaserJock> yeah, I think that's what this bug was about
<LaserJock> something about the #includes
<ScottK2> The one I've had to deal with was missing includes. 
<fta> gcc 4.3.0 has been released nearly two weeks ago
<LaserJock> ah
<fta> http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.3/
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-09
<wgrant> I think there's just lots of bugs. 
<Laney> *sigh*
<Laney> this is not a well-managed transition
<wgrant> Hm, I guess I'd best file a FFe exemption bug before I upload...
<wgrant> It is not a managed transition at all. 
<Laney> but why did this happen? 
<wgrant> Why did what happen? 
<ScottK> wgrant: If it's just bugfix then it doesn't need FFe. 
<wgrant> ScottK: It still needs a bug. 
<ScottK> wgrant: It has one.   Just mark something in that. 
<Laney> an unmanaged transition
<wgrant> ScottK: Thanks. 
<Laney> Although "Please assign bug reports caused by build failures to me."  if doko is offering to fix the world...
<ScottK> When I've gotten stuck and asked, he's been good about making suggestions. 
<Laney> While that is commendable, it's separate to managing the transition.  Ideally we'd have had a bug report or (preferably) a wiki page listing what needs to be done
<Laney> maybe I've been spoiled by the mono transition though
<Laney> directhex: <3
<directhex> Laney, launchpad blueprint! 
<Laney> yessum, there was a spec
<wgrant> Do we even have a list of everything that is broken? 
<wgrant> Is that even possible? 
<Laney> Depends: python (<< 2.6)? 
<wgrant> That was my initial guess, but I doubt that covers everything. 
<Laney> Someone who knows python: are these deps right for an application which is incompatible with 2.6?  http://pastebin.com/f399506d4
<Laney> repeating python2.5-x, python-x seems weird to me
<ScottK> Looking
<ScottK> That seems wrong to me.   I think it should be just the -2.5 one. 
<Laney> They're not even real packages
 * Laney spins round in circles
 * ajmitch wonders when sid will switch to 2.6
<directhex> when someone on the python team negotiates a breaking transition slot? 
<directhex> from debian-release
<Laney> guhhhhh
<Laney> ScottK: Would it be a problem for a 2.5 app to use 2.6 libs? 
 * Laney is so bad at python packaging
<ScottK> Yes
<Laney> but if libs have been transitioned, what happens then? 
<ajmitch> is 2.5 still in main & packages build for 2.5 & 2.6? 
<Laney> well, I removed the 2.5 ones and it works
<Laney> I wouldn't even be able to get on the web interface if cherrypy was incompatible
 * Laney is reasonably happy with that
<ScottK> Most modules should build for both. 
<Laney> Would I see a failure anywhere if they weren't? 
<ScottK> If you start python2.5 and import foo works, then foo is built for 2.5. 
<Laney> OK, they all seem to work
<Laney> that's good enough for me
<Laney> thanks for your help
<ScottK> YW
 * ajmitch should not read ubuntu-sounder, too much uninformed ranting at the moment
<ScottK> ajmitch: Worse than ubuntu-devel even? 
<ajmitch> the threads aren't nearly as long as notification bikeshedding
<ajmitch> or fonts vs DPI
<ScottK> Don't forget update icons. 
<savvas> bug 339554 patched! 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339554 in gedit-plugins "debian/control: Description shows duplicate lines" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339554
<savvas> 3 hours of banging my head against the wall due to sed and escaping characters finally paid off :P
<ScottK> Ah.   A "learning experience". 
<savvas> yes :)
<savvas> ScottK: Can you find someone to test-drive python-zsi merge for bug 237674 ?  I removed the python-xml, but I don't know how to properly test it: http://ppa.launchpad.net/medigeek/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/z/zsi/python-zsi_2.1~a1-2ubuntu1~ppajaunty3_all.deb
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237674 in zsi "Please merge python-zsi (2.1~a1-2) (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [ Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237674
<savvas> I mean I removed the python-xml dependency, the rest was done upstream heh :)
<ScottK> savvas: If upstream says python-xml is no longer required, I think it's reasonbly safe to assume not dropping it was a maintainer oversite. 
<savvas> aaah I see
<ScottK> Isn't the Debian maintainer bzed? 
<savvas> it's registered to debian python modules team
<savvas> I've left a comment on the debian bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=468622#10
<ubottu> Debian bug 468622 in zsi "python-xml removal: please drop/replace (build) dependencies" [Important,Open]
<ScottK> savvas: I think bzed is usually the uploader. 
<ScottK> I saw the bug (I get all the DPMT bugmail) but going to #debian-python and asking might work better. 
<savvas> ok :)
<savvas> thanks! 
<ScottK> savvas: Most of the people who'd know are European, so this isn't the best time of day. 
<savvas> ScottK: I know, I'm from Europe too - I'll try later in the afternoon, I have to go :)
<ScottK> OK.   Well you're up late then. 
<savvas> 4am heh
<savvas> I love silence, helps me focus on my studying :)
<savvas> but I'll get back on my old time schedule as soon as the university starts again heh
<savvas> see ya! 
<ripps> Hmmm... I'm trying to backport a program from jaunty to hardy, but I keep getting libtool errors.  Is there something I'm missing?  I know there's a libtool package in hardy. 
<ScottK> It's a very different version and some of the options supported are different. 
<ScottK> Depending on the error it may take some reasonably expert assistance (not me) to sort it out. 
<ripps> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23623109/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.libmpd_0.18.0%7Egit090305-0ubuntu3%7Erippsh_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ripps> Huh, I think I know what the problem is, I ran autogen.sh locally to setup the build environment, but this associates it with my jaunty version of libtool.  How do I get my debian/rules to run the autogen.sh, instead of me.  I'm using cdbs to manage my rules file. 
<ripps> Does anybody know to run autogen.sh within rules?  I can't figure it out. 
<fabrice_sp> ripps, something like that: post-patches:: debian/stamp-autotools-maintregen-arch
<fabrice_sp> debian/stamp-autotools-maintregen-arch:
<fabrice_sp> 		build-tree/*/autogen.sh
<ripps> fabrice_sp: there isn't a cdbs class/rule that handles this already? 
<fabrice_sp> ripps, I'm not an expert of cdbs, but that's what I've found in several packages
<ripps> fabrice_sp: Okay, I'll try adding it
<ripps> fabrice_sp: debian/rules:9: *** missing separator.   Stop. 
<ripps> I'm not quite sure what you did, so I'm not sure how to fix it. 
<ScottK> ripps: What's on line 9 of debian/rules? 
<ripps> ScottK:    build-tree/*/autogen.sh
<ScottK> Try a 2nd ":" on the line before. 
<ripps> ScottK: didn't fix it.  Here's the debian/rules: http://paste.ubuntu.com/128612/
<ScottK> I'm tired and not tracking very well, but how about a tab before the text on line 9. 
<ripps> ScottK: omg, that was it. 
<ScottK> ripps: You're welcome. 
<ripps> Figures, I'd screw up on the most basic level
<ripps> well, let's see if pbuilder will run autogen.sh
<ScottK> I don't know much about that part. 
<ripps> make: *** [debian/stamp-autotools-maintregen-arch] Error 127
<ripps> /bin/sh: build-tree/*/autogen.sh: not found
<fabrice_sp> ripps, try with just autogen.sh, without  build-tree/*
<ripps> fabrcie_sp: actually I'm trying "sh ./autogen" right now
<fabrice_sp> ok
<ripps> Aha!  I think it's working
<fabrice_sp> great! :-) 
<ripps> The only problem now, is that I have to re-pull all the directories from git that I already ran ./autogen.sh locally, because it changed and  created so many files that a simple make distclean doesn't do the job. 
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp
 * nixternal hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs nixternal back :)
<nixternal> how is your day so far sir? 
<dholbach> very good very good, I'm slowly waking up ;-)
<dholbach> how are you doing over there? 
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> flushing out some unicode boogs in my new country script for geo and django
<dholbach> gotta love Unicode{En,De}coreError :)
<nixternal> ya, think I finally got my fingers on the one issue....str(foo) to the rescue
<Toadstool> g'morning
<savvas> Is it possible that a .mk file doesn't work because there is another rule in debian/rules that processes the same file? 
<hyperair> savvas: i don't think so. 
<hyperair> savvas: if you look at the cdbs stuff, many of them require the same files
<savvas> hyperair: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit-plugins/+bug/339554/comments/6
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 339554 in gedit-plugins "debian/control: Description shows duplicate lines" [Low,In progress]
<savvas> here's the uploaders.mk file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/128673/
 * hyperair groans
<hyperair> that's a lot of symbols
<savvas> :P
<hyperair> ...that's one very lazy maintainer. 
<hyperair> s/very/extremely/
<hyperair> to automatically generate a list of Uploaders in debian/control
<hyperair> what is this
 * hyperair headdesks
<savvas> well.. I tried to clear it up a bit :)
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> wait, is this file in CDBS? 
<hyperair> as in, is it one of them cdbs includes? 
<hyperair> no wait, it doesn't exist
<savvas> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/23156369/gedit-plugins_2.25.3-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<savvas> it has a build dep for cdbs, if that's what you mean
<hyperair> no, that's not what i meant
<hyperair> this whatever.mk file
<hyperair> where did you get it from? 
<savvas> aaah no, I don't think so :) it's from gnome-pkg-tools
<hyperair> interesting
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> and DISABLE_UPDATE_UPLOADERS is set
<hyperair> now, what's the problem? 
<hyperair> if it's the plugin description.... changing the find line in debian/rules should do the trick
<savvas> comment out and DISABLE_UPDATE_UPLOADERS and remove -e "s#@GNOME_TEAM@#$(UPLOADERS)#g", uploaders.mk doesn't change @GNOME_TEAM@
<hyperair> wait, why are you commenting that out? 
<hyperair> if we don't want to change the uploaders, then we should leave it there right? 
<savvas> no, we want to change it!  uploaders.mk is supposed to do that, isn't it? :) 
<savvas> @GNOME_TEAM@ should be replaced by the makefile rule in uploaders.mk
<hyperair> yes.... but there are cases where you might want to change it manually? 
<savvas> so this is one of those cases? 
<hyperair> i have no idea
<savvas> I'm asking because Daniel asked why the sed command replaces the @GNOME_TEAM@, when there is already a rule in uploaders.mk to do that :)
<hyperair> good point
<hyperair> but shouldn't you change as little as possible from debian? 
<hyperair> if what debian has works, then leave it i say =p
<savvas> well, I'll send back to debian if it gets approved :)
<hyperair> aah
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> in that case, by all means, clean it up
<hyperair> =p
<savvas> :P
<savvas> ok
<hyperair> savvas: oho. 
<hyperair> savvas: there is a reason why debian/rules looks like that
<savvas> "* Drop superfluous uploaders include." ? :) 
<hyperair> savvas: notice that debian/rules has a sed command which has two -e's
<hyperair> if you let the uploaders.mk do its job, then do your stuff after that, you're going to clobber
<hyperair> note: sed blah blah blah control.in > control
<hyperair> that's how the uploaders.mk handles it first. 
<hyperair> if you do sed -e "custom rule" control.in > control a second time you'll clobber the stuff done by uploaders.mk
<savvas> you mean I should try without -e ? 
<hyperair> noooooooooooo
<hyperair> i'm saying just leave the debian/rules as it is
<hyperair> include /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/uploaders.mk is needed because debian/rules needs some vars which are specified inside it
<hyperair> DISABLE_UPDATE_UPLOADERS := 1 <-- this is needed so that uploaders.mk does NOT touch debian/control _yet_
<hyperair> sed \
<hyperair>                         -e "s#@GNOME_TEAM@#$(UPLOADERS)#g" \
<hyperair>                         -e "$$plugins_desc_script" \
<hyperair>                         debian/control.in > debian/control
<hyperair> and this...
<hyperair> handles everything all at once in one sed command
<hyperair> because handling it in multiple will only have the last change. 
<hyperair> well of course there's the whole option of just using sed -i -e "$$plugin_desc_script" debian/control
<hyperair> considering that the clean rule from uploaders.mk would have generated a partially complete debian/control already
<savvas> ah..
<savvas> now I see!! 
 * hyperair nods
<savvas> but I think it's better to leave it this way, gives the maintainer more power over control.in changes :P
<directhex> hm.  anyone on motu-release about? 
<hyperair> yes that's my point
<hyperair> leave it that way
<savvas> hyperair: thanks for the clarification, you've been a big help! :) 
<hyperair> np
<directhex> DktrKranz, poke? 
<eMerzh> I'm looking for an MOTU's review of my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ... thanks for your help :)
<hyperair> eMerzh: i'd wait for karmic if i were you ;)
<DktrKranz> directhex: pike
<directhex> DktrKranz, what are the chances on a FFe for "blam" going to be?  I was going to avoid asking for one (as the 0.0.1 upstream bump contains a fundamental change), but something's cropped up..... a binary-only dll in ubuntu's orig which the ubuntu version needs
<eMerzh> hyperair, yes... but if it could be validated, i would not say no :)
<directhex> DktrKranz, it's an RSS reader.  the major change, other than removing the non-free component, is dropping gecko in favour of webkit
<directhex> DktrKranz, and no, i don't know how feasible backporting the replacement rss lib would be
<DktrKranz> directhex: mmmh, wasn't that already processed? 
<hyperair> eMerzh: ah i see
<DktrKranz> I've seen something on -changes, was it Debian? 
<directhex> DktrKranz, well, it's been updated for the mono 2.0 transition in jaunty, but not "fully"... i was researching why, and it seems the 1.0 dependencies come from the binary dll
<directhex> DktrKranz, it's fixed in sid, but it's a major change to switch rendering engine, so definitely needs a FFe
<DktrKranz> directhex: so it needs an upgrade due to mono 2.0
<directhex> DktrKranz, it *needs* an upgrade due to binary in orig.  as it stands, it builds fine on jaunty (as someone, probably you, updated it) - it just sucks & pulls in all of the 1.0 corlib
<DktrKranz> directhex: sounds good for a pretty straightforward FFe
<directhex> i'll test it in a VM, to be certain that there are no obvious regressions
<DktrKranz> it's a standalone app, isn't it? 
<directhex> yes
<DktrKranz> so it's good
<DktrKranz> it won't be more broken than now
<directhex> DktrKranz, seems to work okay.  right, do i file the FFe and the merge patch on the same bug?  i forget things in my old age...
<persia_> directhex, One bug is best, as it preserves bug numbers (and the supply is limited). 
<DktrKranz> directhex: yes please
<DktrKranz> old age? :) 
<DktrKranz> directhex: how was your NEW processing like?  Any REJECT(tm)? 
<directhex> DktrKranz, open the NEW page.  look at the item right at the top.  the pariah of the queue, the elephant in the room. 
<savvas> you need a license for the elephant
<savvas> :)
<DktrKranz> directhex: heh.  I was lucky, my two went in without issues \o/
<directhex> DktrKranz, alright for some Â¬_Â¬
<directhex> DktrKranz, 150 or so packages processed, yet they mysteriously ignore package #4 on the list :(
<directhex> okay, there we go, bug #339863 filed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339863 in blam "[FFe] Please merge Blam 1.8.6 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339863
<DktrKranz> directhex: too hard to review? 
<directhex> hm? 
<iulian> DktrKranz: Are you taking care of blam or should I subscribe the uus? 
<iulian> (exception granted)
<directhex> woo
<directhex> iulian, have you seen the sexy, sexy progress on the 2.0 transition?  Saving precious, precious megabytes from peoples' installations...
<khashayar_> nhandler: Just leaving a note here: I've addressed your comments for pencil (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5335).  Thanks for taking a look at it after FF and all. 
<iulian> directhex: Hmm, no, unfortunately.   I've forgotten to join -mono on OFTC and haven't looked at that wiki page :-(
<directhex> iulian, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO
<iulian> directhex: I see that meebey uploaded giver to Sid.   I'm wondering why lintian thinks that the package was NMUed.   Isn't meebey a member of the Debian CLI Applications Team on Alioth?   I put myself as an Uploader in the previous upload. 
<iulian> Ouh, that's nice. 
<directhex> once all remaining smerge bugs are closed, then ubuntu is done! 
<persia> Um, no.   There might be bugs during the testing period :)
<Pici> bug 100000
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 100000 in malone "There are still too many bug reports" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100000
<Pici> :(
<directhex> persia, i meant for the mono 2.0 transition ;)
<directhex> persia, was i correct in hearing word that java 7 might become more monoish and actually be splittable into smaller libs in a rational manner? 
<persia> directhex, I can't speak for the former.   I believe that much of the base JDK will be broken into separable libraries, but haven't heard too many details. 
<persia> Despite the JCP, I still basically wait to hear what Sun is planning. 
<directhex> it would be nice if a java app could have a <100 meg footprint including framework
<persia> Yeah, although the work on -headless seems to be making that possible for server stuff. 
<persia> We'll see how far it goes.   As much as anything, it's the app authors who tend to use all the little bits just because they are there. 
<directhex> well, your target is about 35-40 meg for tomboy w/ mono, i think ;)
<persia> Well, kinda.   Part of the issue is that the perception of "Java Works" is related to applets working, and that requires *lots* of libraries for graphics, animation, sound, etc. 
<directhex> ehm... true
<directhex> which is nicer, the rock or the hard place? 
<wgrant> ... not Java, perhaps. 
<DktrKranz> iulian: I can manage it this evening, if directhex don't find another sponsor before
<iulian> DktrKranz: OK. 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<iulian> Heya bddebian. 
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<dholbach> anybody know a package that uses python's distutils and debhelper7? 
<dholbach> maybe python-support too? :) 
<ScottK> dholbach: stepic
<dholbach> I'm trying to figure out what python-django-lint (only in Debian) FTBFS in Ubuntu
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks - I'll check it out
<ScottK> dholbach: If it's like some other django stuff it's becuase it uses ez_setup. 
 * ScottK didn't look at that one specifically though
<dholbach> it seems to install what's in setup.py's scripts' list into usr/local and dh_usrlocal explodes
<ScottK> You need to patch around the ez_install stuff. 
<dholbach> it does not use ez_install AFAICS
<ScottK> Oh.   OK. 
<ScottK> Nevermindthen. 
<dholbach> just the regular distutils..core
<dholbach> ok - I'll have a poke at it
<dholbach> seems like a useful tool
<ScottK> dholbach: Then it probaby needs the install layout=deb magic
<dholbach> ah! 
<ScottK> I'll look up the exact syntax
 * dholbach will try it
<ScottK> dholbach: setup.py install --install-layout=deb
<ScottK> Adding the --install-layout=deb is likely the missing bit. 
<dholbach> gracias, now I'll see how to marry that with debhelper7 :)
<geser> patch debhelper so other python packages benefit from it too
<dholbach> geser: I'd rather leave that to somebody who's a bit cleverer than I am... like doko
<dholbach> ... and understands the bigger python picture than I do
<geser> cdbs was patched to include --install-layout=deb by default when calling setup.py install but apparently not debhelper
<ara> dholbach: does it makes sense to have circular dependencies?  because debian ldtp package just introduced one
<ScottK> ara: They matter a lot less for Debian (due to doing binary uploads) than to Ubuntu.  We want to avoid those. 
<dholbach> ara: why is it necessary there? 
<ara> dholbach: the reason is that the packaging is done badly.  ldtprunner is part of ldtp package, but should be part of python-ldtp
<ara> dholbach: they have just make ldtp depend on python-ldtp.  but python-ldtp was already depending on ldtp
<dholbach> ara: could it be easily moved to the other package (with added conflicts/replaces to the old version)? 
<dholbach> hum.... as far as I can tell the new ldtp does not depends on python-ldtp? ( 1.5.0-1 in Debian)
<ara> dholbach: I guess so, I will talk with the debian maintainer about it.  I don't think it ldtp is going to publish any necessary fixes for jaunty, so I will try to have it sorted out before karmic auto-sync
<ara> dholbach: yes, it is in debian only
<ara> dholbach: ldtp (1.5.0-2) unstable; urgency=low
<ara>  . 
<ara>    * debian/control:
<ara>      + ldtp now depends on python-ldtp package,
<ara>        Thanks to Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> (Closes: #518902)
<dholbach> ah, ok
<ara> dholbach: but it will be in karmic, eventually ;-)
<dholbach> it'd be nice if the circular dependency could be avoided :-/
<ara> dholbach: OK.  I will put it on my to do list.  I will try to get debian fixed before auto-sync
<dholbach> ara: if the ubuntu package has an "ubuntu" in the version number, it won't be auto-synced, but sure... it's great if it's fixed beforehand
<ara> dholbach: cool, I didn't know that one ;-)
<dholbach> yeah, it makes life a bit easier for us :)
<dholbach> c_korn, thekorn: heya - this is something I wanted to ask for a long time already... are you guys related? :) 
<c_korn> dholbach: not that I knew
<dholbach> anyway... great having two Korns here who are doing a good job :)
<imbrandon> heh
 * ScottK hands some ksh to dholbach for completeness. 
<dholbach> ScottK: ksh? 
<dholbach> ahh ok
<ScottK> Korn Shell. 
 * dholbach is getting a bit slow already :)
<dholbach> 6:00 maybe was too early :)
<c_korn> dholbach: well, I am not even a MOTU, but thanks
<dholbach> c_korn: still... when your name turned up somewhere in the sponsoring queue I thought "maybe he's related to Markus... I *need* to ask him!" :-) 
<dholbach> keep up the good work
<DktrKranz> dholbach: or your coffee wasn't strong enough.  I'll borrow you my "moka" :)
<dholbach> DktrKranz: thanks a bunch :)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: You pinged me about something the other day and weren't around when I got the ping.   Do you remember what it was and if it's still important? 
<DktrKranz> ScottK: I asked you if build-depend on boost1.37 is good enough or boost1.35 is preferred, libtorrent-rasterbar overwrote your change, so I wanted to be sure everything is fine. 
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Right.   That was it. 
 * DktrKranz didn't follow boost stuff
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Pretty much everthing is sync'ed up on 1.35 for Jaunty.   IIRC 1.37 and 1.35 are not co-installable, so it could be problematic.   I'd check if they are co-installable and if they are and it built, I think it's fine. 
<ScottK> Or if the package doesn't carry a runtime dependency, then it's fine too. 
<savvas> ScottK: I think only the -dev packages aren't co-installable
<savvas> as far as I can remember that is :P
<ScottK> savvas: OK.   That'd make sense. 
<DktrKranz> I'll check with some rdependencies once binaries come out NEW, thanks. 
<savvas> e.g. http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/i386/libboost-filesystem1.35.0/filelist http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/i386/libboost-filesystem1.37.0/filelist
<ScottK> savvas: I suspect you are correct. 
<thekorn> dholbach, hi, good question ;)
<Laney> DktrKranz: IIRC I tried it out before I uploaded
<DktrKranz> Laney: I asked because my boss is waiting for deluge :)
<Laney> heh
 * Laney is waiting for miro
 * DktrKranz can't use internet, my boss can P2P, weird...
<Laney> no internet at work?  :O
<DktrKranz> no browsing
<DktrKranz> we're behind a strong NAT, only ssh is allowed
<Laney> heh
<Laney> ssh -L...
<DktrKranz> and P2P for his machine
 * DktrKranz has two choices: bribing him to have deluge working again or find a new boss (and a new job as well)
<Laney> good for downloading Linux ISOs right
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Tunnel over DNS. 
<DktrKranz> I'm something like a IT manager, so I can setup a tunnel
<DktrKranz> but I need to connect to Belgium to do so, and it can be problematic sometimes
<Laney> ScottK: Could you give libtorrent some AA love?  No real urgency but it blocks some stuff, notably miro's py2.6 transition
<Laney> actually, I'll need an FFe for that anyway
<soren> 7win 21
<soren> Doh
<Laney> your / is near 7?! 
<Laney> crazy layout
<soren> Not just near it.  On it. 
<Nafallo> it is 7 IIRC
<Nafallo> :-)
<jdong> lol what crazy devices do all y'all use? 
<soren> Keyboards? 
<soren> They're all the rage these days. 
<jdong> ah nvm I see now :)
<jdong> excuse my American every-keyboard-is-like-ours mentality :D
<savvas> Laney: are you working on miro? 
<Laney> savvas: yes, see the bug
<savvas> ok :)
<cristi> i have read some of the motu contributing and packaging documentation/wiki or whatever and i'd like to help out.  What should i do?  Note that i am in highschool so i have only standard knowledge of cpp and still learning object oriented programming. 
<cristi> nevermind, i found something
<ScottK> cristi: We have several valuable contributors who are high school age, so don't feel that's a barrier. 
<ScottK> cristi: Generally I advise people to follow their interests and try to work on things that relate to that. 
<cristi> ScottK: i am applying for computer science this summer so i'm interested in everything computer related
<ScottK> Well we have plenty of that. 
<cristi> ScottK: anyway, since i am only just starting, i am a bit confused.  Can you advice me on how to begin doing something useful? 
<ScottK> I can try. 
<ScottK> What do you use?   Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu Server ....
<ScottK> cristi: ^^
<cristi> ScottK: i am using ubuntu 8.04
<cristi> ScottK on a laptop
<ScottK> OK.   What I'd suggest is look in Launchpad for bugs tagged bitesize that relate to packages you use/are familiar with. 
<ScottK> That'd give you perhaps some easy targets to start learning with. 
 * ScottK uses Kubuntu, so I can't help with specifics. 
<cristi> ScottK: i see, uhm, how do i sort bugs by tags?  i simply search 'bitesize' at bug tracking? 
<ScottK> Yes. 
<ScottK> Search by tags in advanced search
<savvas> bug 340059 patched for python 2.6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340059 in eikazo "eikazo: Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 is to be installed" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340059
<geser> savvas: looks good, do you need a sponsor or is somebody else already sponsoring it? 
<savvas> geser: needs a sponsor :)
<savvas> I'm advertising it in here kind of :P
 * savvas bbl
<geser> savvas: [ubuntu/jaunty] eikazo 0.5.2-4ubuntu1 (Accepted)
<cristi> ScottK: if the bug is assigned to someone i guess there is no point in trying to fix it
<ScottK> It depends.   I think bugsquad will assign themselves bugs for triage work, so it's not for sure. 
<ScottK> Also if it's been assigned for a long time, maybe the person has lost interest. 
<cristi> ScottK: but if i see for status fix released? 
<ScottK> Then it's fixed and don't worry about it. 
<LaserJock> is python 2.5 going to still be around for Jaunty? 
<fabrice_sp_> LaserJock, I think so, but python 2.6 will be the default
<LaserJock> but for Universe it should be OK to make an app 2.5-only
<RainCT> LaserJock: yep, shouldn't be a problem
<lfaraone> What's the chance I could get this in jaunty+1?  http://www.vergenet.net/~conrad/scripts/pants.html
<lfaraone> (made me burst into laughter)
<emgent> hallo
<RainCT> tach
<TickTockClock> what does copy the packing over into the new source tree mean? 
<TickTockClock> here:
<TickTockClock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<TickTockClock> packaging
<TickTockClock> I used apt-get source.. <package>
<TickTockClock> where is it? 
<RainCT> TickTockClock: the debian/ directory, probably
<directhex> copy the debian/ folder from foo-1.0/ to foo-1.2/
<TickTockClock> where is that? 
<RainCT> TickTockClock: inside the directory   apt-get source  gave you
<TickTockClock> extract the .gz file? 
<RainCT> TickTockClock: apt-get source should have done that.  If not, run  dpkg-source -x *dsc
<TickTockClock> ok
<RainCT> TickTockClock: (*that = not extracting the .gz, but extracting the .orig.tar.gz and applying the .diff.gz upon it)
<torkel> siretart: can you please extend my membership in the FAI team?  It is about to expire
<TickTockClock> what if I get the error unrepresentable changes to source? 
<TickTockClock> is that common
<TickTockClock> after running
<TickTockClock> debuild -S -sa
<maxb> TickTockClock: How serious that is depends on what the unrepresentable change is
<TickTockClock> error exit status 1
<TickTockClock> umm...
<TickTockClock> well, some files were deleted and it took note of some permission changes
<blueyed> I want to add a apport hook to virtualbox-ose, to get the output of "dpkg -l | grep virtualbox".  How would I pass that to apport.hookutils.command_output (which takes an array for the command)? 
<maxb> TickTockClock: you need to give more details about what you're trying to do and what errors you're seeing, to enable people to help.  What package, what versions, and a pastebin of the exact commands run and output seen
<TickTockClock> http://www.pastebin.ca/1356754
<TickTockClock> stellarium 10.0->10.1
<maxb> You've not updated the debian/changelog.  Thus, it's trying to build the source package against the wrong .orig.tar.gz
<maxb> blueyed: See the implementation of apport.hookutils.attach_dmesg for an example. 
<TickTockClock> thanks
<TickTockClock> I think I've got it now
<blueyed> maxb: thanks.. "['sh', '-c', 'foo | bar']" does the trick. 
<bdmurray> siretart: as near as I can figure bug 64501 is Fix Released considering ScottK's upload of 0.4.1-3 is that right? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 64501 in openhackware "FTBFS" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64501
<TickTockClock> I have followed the instructions but I keep getting the error secret key not available
<TickTockClock> seahorse detects my key
<TickTockClock> instructions from here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<cristi> savvas: hy, uhm i want to help with the python 2.6 packages update, what should i do. ( note that i am just a beginner)
<TickTockClock> gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<directhex> TickTockClock, the most recent entry in debian/changelog is for your exact key? 
<TickTockClock> my name is the same as the name in the keyring
<TickTockClock> and the email
<TickTockClock> if that's what you're asking
<maxb> TickTockClock: run gpg --list-secret-keys.  Check it displays the exact same identity as the debian/changelog
<TickTockClock> I had to run sudo gpg --list-secret-keys, but yes
<TickTockClock> it lists the same identity
<TickTockClock> I had to run sudo because in order to generate the keys I needed root
<maxb> TickTockClock: then you're doing it wrong - your keys MOST EMPHATICALLY should be in your user's keyring, not root's
<maxb> And that'll be why it can't find the key, I reckon
<TickTockClock> ok thanks
<TickTockClock> I'll try to fix that
<TickTockClock> later
<TickTockClock> brb
<andol> I have a question about submitting bugs/patches to Debian.  Read the wikipage Debian/Bugs and still isn't sure. 
<andol> Before you submit the bug/patch, do you have to have it confirmed on your own system of Debian unstable, or is a qualifed guess "good enough"? 
<andol> (In this case I'm thinking of bug #315136 by the way)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 315136 in phpldapadmin "config.php symlink not removed on purge" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/315136
<nixternal> safe to do python uploads today?  need to fix gdal in jaunty and fabrice_sp_ has been nice enough to provide a patch that I am testing now...need this gdal app asap so I can finish some geodjango code and testing :)
<siretart> bdmurray: I fail to find any builds of openhackware.  as soon as we have binaries in the archive, I'd agree, but I fail to spot them
<siretart> torkel: done! 
<ScottK> bdmurray: I don't see where it ever got built? 
<ScottK> IIRC it needs manual bootstrapping that no one has ever done. 
<bdmurray> Wow, so on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openhackware/+publishinghistory if the builds portlet is missing that means it hasn't been built? 
<bdmurray> I mean on the https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/openhackware/0.4.1-4 page
<siretart> ScottK: last time I asked adam to bootstrap it he refused to do so
<ScottK> siretart: I remember. 
<siretart> ScottK: IIRC lamont suggested to ship a precompiled version uuencoded in the package, which is then installed in the 'clean' target. 
<siretart> and basically that's what's the bug is about
<ScottK> Interesting idea. 
<soren> I've been mening to do that for a loong time. 
<soren> siretart: If you do it, I'll send you a great, big hug :)
<siretart> it is the approach taken with the palo package
 * ScottK leaves it for soren and siretart. 
<soren> Oh, I just distribute the hugs. :) 
<siretart> :)
<ScottK> siretart: fpc might benifit from some similar thing too.   There's a quite a number of universe packages depwait on fpc getting built. 
<directhex> isn't uuencoding a terrible workaround? 
<ScottK> Just in case you were looking for practice. 
<ScottK> directhex: What would be better? 
<siretart> ScottK: well, I don't have access to ppc hardware, so I would have to grab the binary from the debian package
 * nixternal steps on his eyeball to stop the twitching
<directhex> ScottK, if you need a bootstrap binary, why not ship it & document it in README.source? 
<ScottK> fpc is a problem on all archs, so even doing i386 and amd64 would be a win
<siretart> I could possibly even test it using qemu, but I don't have a warm feeling about that
<ScottK> siretart: If you upload it and it doesn't work there's no downside risk. 
<siretart> hm.  granted
<siretart> I'll think about it, but now need some sleep.  good night -see you tomrrow! 
<ajmitch> night siretart
<imbrandon> gnight siretart
<imbrandon> hrm precompiled binaries uuencoded and installed on clean, interesting way to bootstrap
<imbrandon> :)
<directhex> imbrandon, i just don't see how it's better than bootstrap-only binaries in orig :/
<directhex> welcome to #ubuntu-motu, please enjoy your stay
<bertolo> i am portuguese, 20 years old, student and low level coder (mainly C).  how can i contribute ? 
<mrooney> bertolo: you might want to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu, or some of the links in the topic as well! 
<bertolo> mrooney, thks
<bertolo> i decided to contribute to ubuntu or gnome lol, i only have time for one of them...
<bertolo> gnome is the front of the race
<bertolo> lol
<persia> bertolo, Work done in GNOME will also be seen in Ubuntu, and it's better to do what you like.   If you end up with questions about packaging, or have patches for bugs in older versions of GNOME, we'd be happy to answer any questions. 
<bertolo> persia my main problem that i am facing is that i am not familiarized with the community. 
<bertolo> i would like to join a develop team
<bertolo> and i love ubuntu so much <3 lol
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-10
<ebroder> Anyone willing to sponsor an upload?  bug #339449
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339449 in mit-scheme "FeatureFreezeException: Merge mit-scheme with Debian" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339449
<imbrandon> jcastro: happy bday ( its midnight mytime, not sure about yours )
<imbrandon> :)
<tgm4883> in debian/copyright, I have the standard gpl v2 blurb, but I have some files that are strictly v2, can I freely remove the part that says  "or (at your option) any later version. " 
<tgm4883> the standard blurb i'm talking about is similar to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythexport/intrepid/annotate/head%3A/debian//copyright
<persia> tgm4883, If you have sources with two different licenses (and GPLv2 is different than GPLv2+), then it's best practice to identify them, and have two paragraphs. 
<persia> If all your source is the same, just use the same text as in the source files. 
<tgm4883> persia, right, and I am separating them.   I just need to know if I can just remove that part for the files that are strictly v2, or if there is a different blurb I should be using
<persia> You should *always* use the blurb in the source files. 
<persia> Don't use "standard" blurbs, except when upstream did. 
<ripps> I'm trying to write a script that puts the operations dch, debuild, and dput into single command.  How can I pull the latest version from debian/changelog, without a bunch of other stuff? 
<persia> Note that when dealing with licenses with addresses, and you *know* the address is no longer current, updating that is fine, but otherwise, stick with upstream. 
<persia> ripps, I don't think you want to do it that way, but dpkg-parsechangelog is probably what you want. 
<tgm4883> persia, ok, in the files, the only thing they say is "# Released under the terms of the GNU GPL v2"
<tgm4883> which I was under the impression that I had to add the short license to debian/copyright
<persia> OK.   You've found an exceptional case. 
<tgm4883> well I am exceptional ;)
<persia> I recommend bugging upstream, because they are *supposed* to put in the blurb.   Bugging by way of a patch attached to an enhancement request is best practice. 
<tgm4883> ok, and the short term? 
<persia> That said, yes, drop the "or (at your option) any later version."  text. 
<tgm4883> ok
<ripps> What's the easiest way of managing multiple packages with multiple backports? 
<persia> I can't promise the archive-admins won't complain, but it's the closest you'll get to being right for now. 
<tgm4883> heh, well, they are complaining with how it is right now ;)
<tgm4883> thats what i'm trying to fix
<persia> The source files are *not* properly licensed, in my opinion.   I recommend checking with the archive admin to make sure you're meeting their requirements before pushing it again. 
<tgm4883> ok, will do
<tgm4883> thanks persia
<persia> tgm4883, Also, it's worth remembering that regardless of the contents of debian/copyright, the orig.tar.gz must be suitable for redistribution on it's own. 
<iulian> Does anyone know why I'm getting: 'Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.0.1 and 1.9.0.*.'  when I run firefox? 
<iulian> Doh
 * iulian hasn't finished upgrading. 
<dholbach> good morning
 * wgrant notes that we are ~ half way through the obvious part of the universe Python 2.6 transition. 
<iulian> G'morning dholbach! 
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<iulian> How is it going? 
<dholbach> very good - how are you doing? 
<ebroder> I know I can't make the alpha release, but can someone upload bug #339449 so it's in the queue? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339449 in mit-scheme "FeatureFreezeException: Merge mit-scheme with Debian" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339449
<iulian> dholbach: I'm doing my calculus homework right now and looking at my irssi window. :-) 
<dholbach> good luck with that :)
<ebroder> Dude - IM + homework !! = productivity
<iulian> Hehe
<ebroder> Seriously - it just doesn't work.  Context switches are expensive
<dholbach> fabrice_sp__: looks like im-sdk is still FTBFSing (it built fine for me in pbuilder though :-/)
<dholbach> I'll be back in a bit, just letting you know
<willwill> hi!  any one willing to review my package here?  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mbpurple
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<eMerzh> If a motu has some time to review my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ...
<c_korn> hello, I want to open a bug about moving scilab to univesre because it is now free.  is there a wiki or something about how to request? 
<slytherin> c_korn: have you solved the FTBFS problem? 
<c_korn> slytherin: yes, it is already in jaunty.  but in multiverse
<dholbach> c_korn: just file a bug report, explaining what changed and that you want to move it to universe and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors - somebody will review, ACK and subscribe ubuntu-archive later
<slytherin> c_korn: I asked you if you solved the FTBFS problem. 
<c_korn> slytherin: it only failed to build because there were empty translation files in the package.  I removed them in clean target. 
<dholbach> seems like it FTBFS in a couple of other places still: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/scilab/5.1-0ubuntu2
<c_korn> oh, that you mean :P I filed a bug in the scilab bug tracker.  sylvestre wants to look at it. 
<c_korn> at least powerpc and ia64 should build then
<c_korn> the other archs fail for some other reasons
<c_korn> missing dependencies
<dholbach> ah ok
<directhex>   openjdk-6-jdk: Depends: openjdk-6-jre (>= 6b14-1.4.1-0ubuntu2) but it is not going to be installed
<directhex> java shonk
<directhex> on SOME arches anyway
<directhex> checking to see if we can link a JNI application... no
<directhex> configure: error: could not link file that includes jni.h
<directhex> on others
<directhex> generally, java suckitude's to blame one way or another
<c_korn> is this sufficient?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/baltix/+bug/340413
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340413 in baltix "move scilab-5.1 from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,New]
<slytherin> c_korn: why did you file it in baltix? 
<c_korn> slytherin: was a mistake
<c_korn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/scilab/+bug/340413
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340413 in baltix "move scilab-5.1 from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,New]
<c_korn> should I mark the baltix one as invalid? 
<c_korn> should I list all packages that have to be moved? 
<geser> c_korn: have you checked if all build-dependencies and runtime-dependencies for all binary packages are in main/universe? 
<geser> and the bug should be better against the scilab package in ubuntu and not the scilab project
<pochu>    * Change pastebinit's default behavior to reading from stdin (Thanks fta)
 * pochu hugs stgraber :-)
 * pochu hugs fta too ;)
<c_korn> geser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/scilab/+bug/340413/comments/1 I checked all dependencies
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340413 in baltix "move scilab-5.1 from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,New]
<c_korn> they are fine
<stgraber> pochu: works ? 
<stgraber> pochu: that should be a "no new feature but everything's fixed" release, a bit last minute for Jaunty but we couldn't keep the one we had in so ...
<pochu> stgraber: didn't update yet... shouldn't it? 
<pochu> stgraber: you're a good upstream for that! :) 
<stgraber> even the translations seem to work (except one string as it's been added yesterday and isn't translated on LP yet)
<Laney> jcfp: I need your python 2.5 wizardry.  How did you manage to get rid of the << 2.6 dep on sab?  I've a similar problem with another package...
<jcfp> Laney: it had to do with trying to provide a public module without supporting the default python version
<jcfp> which apparently isn't allowed unless the package name is something like pythonX.Y-modulename
<Laney> guh
<jcfp> In case of sab, solution was to make the module private
<Laney> might work, thanks
<torkel> siretart: thanks! 
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<ScottK> Hi sistpoty|work. 
<sistpoty|work> hi ScottK
<cristi> savvas: hy! 
<cristi> savvas: so what should i do in order to help out with the python packages update to 2.6 (i think)
<geser> cristi: you mean the python 2.6 transition? 
<cristi> geser: yes
<geser> cristi: have you read the mail on ubuntu-devel what needs to be changed in the packaging of a package? 
<cristi> geser: i am just getting started, i am still reading articles on the wiki.  however i was told that it's not that hard to contribute to the python 2.6 transition
<cristi> geser: so the answer is no
<geser> cristi: it's really easy
<geser> (in most cases)
<cristi> what is really easy lol
<cristi> the python transcription i guess, ok can you help me out so i can start doing something
<geser> cristi: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027528.html
<geser> the next step is then picking a package which needs a transition
<geser> btw: have you already a jaunty pbuilder? 
<cristi> geser: yes, i got it last night and took a look at introductive stuff
<geser> good as it makes the test building easier
<Laney> ffmpeg did a release?!  :O
<directhex> what what? 
<directhex> ffmpeg, the "change everything every week" app? 
<Laney> http://svn.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg/branches/0.5/RELEASE?revision=17805
<Laney> crazy
<StevenK> And the world didn't end!? 
<StevenK> The release name is all kinds of ironic
<slytherin> what kind of policy is this "we have made a release but we only accept bugs against svn trunk"? 
<directhex> slytherin, it's more liberal than their usual policy of "trunk or gtfo"
 * slytherin will be back in 10-15 minutes. 
<theholyduck> directhex, i like the trunk or gtfo
<theholyduck> it works therefor its good
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<__iron> hi
<__iron> isnt a new pidgin-version avaible in 8.10 ? 
<geser> __iron: afaik it's being worked on
<__iron> k thx geser
<sven777> would any motu kindly review my package?   Thanks in advance!   http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lmalinux
<quadrispro> hi guys
<siretart> Laney: and guess what, that release is already in debian unstable since *last week*
<cristi> uhm i had the hardy version of pbuilder (or at least i think), and i run     sudo pbuilder update --distribution interpid --override-config.  however, after trying to build a package i am getting this (error i think?)  http://pastebin.com/m30804dd7
<cristi> can anyone tell me what should i do?  this is my first package
<directhex> cristi, not enough output to be helpful
<slytherin> cristi: can you paste complete error?  The part you pasted is not much usefull
<cristi> yes, one moment
<cristi> i see now that the problem is a bit deeper
<cristi> http://pastebin.com/m13e8dfee
<hyperair> cristi: sudo
<hyperair> no wait, there's more
<cristi> no no, i think i overpasted
<cristi> i used sudo
<cristi> 2nd time
<slytherin> cristi: have you enabled universe section in your config?  because libstatgrab-dev is in universe
<cristi> blah i guess not, can you tell me how to do that, or give me a link..? 
<hyperair> --components
<slytherin> cristi: are you using a ~/.pbuilderrc?  If not, it is better to copy /etc/pbuilderrc to ~/.pbuilderrc and modify that file. 
<hyperair> cristi: sudo pbuilder update --override-config --components "main universe"
<cristi> hyperair: i am getting hardy release packages :-s
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> --distribution intrepid then
<cristi> i guess i should give an output
 * hyperair nods
<cristi> http://pastebin.com/m53074083
<hyperair> intrepid not interpid
<cristi> lol omg
<hyperair> lol
<directhex> i didn't want to say anything... :/
<hyperair> lol
<cristi> >_<
<cristi> what the hell   -> Someone else has lock over /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz.tmp, waiting
<slytherin> cristi: this is the reason I asked you to use separate pbuilderrc
<cristi> slytherin: i did separate
<cristi> copied to ~/
<cristi> ok, so now what should i do
<slytherin> cristi: did you name the file .pbuilderrc? 
<cristi> yes
<cristi> however, it's all i did
<cristi> just copied it
<slytherin> cristi: did you change the distribution and components in that file? 
<cristi> no
<slytherin> after that you need to do pbuilder --update --override-config
<cristi> #COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse" // i should just uncomment the line ? 
<slytherin> cristi: it depends on what all components you want.  If you want all of them then uncomment it. 
<cristi> i am still getting   -> Someone else has lock over /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz.tmp, waiting
<cristi> slytherin: so, now what should i do? 
<hyperair> slytherin: does it matter, if you're on a single-user system? 
<hyperair> cristi: break the lock.  don't ask me where it is though
<c_korn> hello, is this move request sufficient?  or do I miss something?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scilab/+bug/340413
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340413 in baltix "move scilab-5.1 from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,Invalid]
<slytherin> hyperair: does what matter? 
<cristi> hyperair: this is not really working
<cristi> i don't know what is causing the lock. 
<hyperair> slytherin: having a separate .pbuilderrc.  personally i have a bunch of scripts which maintain different pbuilder base.tgz, each of different releases.  i've never touched a pbuilderrc before
<hyperair> cristi: maybe another pbuilder is running? 
<hyperair> or maybe the previous run of pbuilder didn't close cleanly
<cristi> hyperair: i have only one terminal session open
<hyperair> hm
<cristi> hyperair: i can start over reinstalling pbuilder i guess ? 
<hyperair> no. 
<hyperair> no need. 
<cristi> ok
<hyperair> i mean it won't do anything
<hyperair> hmmm
<hyperair> just delete /var/cache/pbuilder
<slytherin> hyperair: I have punch of pbuilderrc each corresponding to a different pbuilder chroot. :-) 
<hyperair> slytherin: command line options ftw =p
<slytherin> cristi: don't delete /var/cache/pbuilder.  It will also delete your base.tgz. 
<hyperair> slytherin: that's the point.  it can be regenerated
<cristi> slytherin: ok, i didn't delete it
<cristi> slytherin: was really close to though xD
<hyperair> i don't know, when things get messy like this, sometimes it would be faster to just start over, don't you think? 
<slytherin> cristi: delete that .tmp file instead. 
<slytherin> hyperair: provided you have fast internet connection. 
<cristi> ok
<cristi> now? 
<hyperair> slytherin: debootstrap takes at most 15 minutes on my desktop, and that's with 512kbps
<slytherin> hyperair: 512 is fast. 
<hyperair> slytherin: you sure? 
<hyperair> it maxes out at 50 kB/s
<slytherin> hyperair: yes.  In the places I live, you either get fast speed or unlimited data transfer.  Not both. 
<hyperair> slytherin: ouch. 
<hyperair> slytherin: i've got 512kbps, unlimited data transfer
<hyperair> slytherin: which part of the world are you from anyway
<slytherin> hyperair: India
<hyperair> i see. 
<hyperair> your ISP sucks =(
<hyperair> and i thought malaysian ISPs were bad
<cristi> slytherin: uh i deleted the .tmp file, now i just run again sudo pbuilder --update --override-config ? 
<hyperair> cristi: yeah
<cristi> slytherin: ok, finally done
<cristi> slytherin: thank's a lot!  :D
<slytherin> cristi: welcome
<ara> anyone willing to answer a migration to python 2.6 question??  any takers? :) 
<RainCT> ara: just ask, and if someone knows the answer he'll tell you :)
<RainCT> although I guess you already know this
<ara> :D
<ara> well, the thing is that if in jaunty now you do 'apt-get source ldtp' and try to build it, it will fail
<ara> the problem is that it does not use distutils
<ScottK> What's the error? 
<ara> so I don't know how to fix it
<ara> dh_install -i --sourcedir=debian/tmp
<ara> dh_install: python-ldtp missing files (usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/*.py), aborting
<ara> it does not find it, because it places them under /tmp instead
<ara> (debian/tmp)
<pochu> ara: what are the contents of your .install file? 
<ara> usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/*.py
<ara> usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ldtplib/*.py
<jpds> You'll have to change it to python2.6/dist-packages*. 
<ScottK> ara: Change it to usr/lib/python*/*-packages/*.py
<ara> I already tried that
<pochu> you guys are fast
<ara> I already tried that :)
<ScottK> ara: Tried which? 
<anakron> hi all
<ara> I changed it to usr/lib/python*/dist-packages/*.py
<ara> it didn't work
<pochu> ara: can you do `ls debian/tmp/usr/lib/` when the build fails? 
<anakron> hi rainct, persia, thekorn.  pedro_
<ScottK> ara: That's not what I suggested. 
<anakron> and Laney
<anakron> :)
<ara> ScottK, yes I am going to try it now
<pochu> anakron: you're on a waving spree! 
<anakron> :-)
<ScottK> Also if the issue is related to overall path, like /tmp/debian versus /tmp, that's unrelated to the new Python. 
<ara> ScottK: i tried your suggestion and it didn't work either
<ScottK> OK.   What error then? 
<ara> ScottK: smae
<ara> ScottK: same
<ScottK> ara: Can you pastbin the actual build failure message and your debian/rules? 
<ara> ScottK, pochu: these are the contents of debian/tmp after the failure: http://paste.ubuntu.com/129373/
<ara> ScottK: it is the current package, without changes: if you do "apt-get source ldtp" you will have it all
<ScottK> OK
<pochu> ara: it's installing things in /ldtplib rather than /usr/lib/python*/*packages :)
<ara> pochu: not really
<ara> pochu: it used to install things under /usr/lib/python*/*packages/ldtplib and /usr/lib/python*/*packages, and now it has lost that structure
<ara> pochu: again, I didn't change anything on the packaging
<ara> pochu: so I thought it might be something related to the python migratoin
<pochu> ara: sure.  I mean, right now it tried to install things in / ;)
<pochu> or at least that's what your pastebin shows
 * ScottK is going to try building it and see. 
<ara> pochu: but I already saw that :)
<ara> pochu: thanks anyway, I will keep trying
<savvas> geser: thanks for sponsoring it! :)  and sorry for the typo ("LP" instead of "LP:")
<savvas> hm.. that's nice, debian bugs are now successfully tracked through launchpad :)
<ScottK> ara: Change python-ldtp.install to *.py
<ScottK> It at least builds. 
<ScottK> You'd have to see if the binary has all the right files in it. 
<ara> ScottK: it is an upstream bug.  i am talking with upstream now, thanks! 
<ScottK> ara: Excellent. 
<savvas> Is there a command that outputs "i386" or "amd64" depending on the architecture? 
<savvas> arch isn't available unfortunately
<RainCT> savvas: uname, but it returns other values than just i386/amd64
<savvas> uname -m ?  I'll see what I can do with it, thanks :)
<RainCT> and I'm not sure if it shows the architecture you are running one or that one for the kernel.. :P
<savvas> oh :p
<savvas> cristi: you asked to help for python transition? 
<cristi> savvas: yes, but geser helped me a lot
<RainCT> savvas: I'm using it in pbuilder-dist, os.uname()[4].replace('x86_64', 'amd64').replace('i586', 'i386').replace('i686', 'i386')
<RainCT> for bash,  uname -m | <sed/awk..>  should do the same
<pochu> dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH
<savvas> cristi: ah ok:) Since you also mentioned you're a beginner, I would suggest to start looking for bugs with "bitesize" tags: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<savvas> pochu: now that's more like it :P thanks! :) 
<RainCT> pochu: uhmm nice
<savvas> pochu: does it return i386 for i686 kernels as well? 
<maxb> Also, dpkg --print-architecture
<cristi> savvas: they seem a bit difficult, i don't know.  I tried to repair the xsensors package but i couldn't figure it out >_<.  uhm and most bugs are taken for the ubuntu version
<pochu> savvas: no idea, see dpkg-architecture(1) :)
<savvas> hm, cool
<maxb> dpkg --print-architecture definitely returns the string you expect to find in .deb file names. 
<pochu> savvas: and no, because I have a 686 kernel and it return 386 :)
<maxb> Which is probably the same as DEB_HOST_ARCH
<pochu> s/386/i386/
<RainCT> does someone know how often popcon.ubuntu.com is updated (the data, not the website :))? 
<cristi> savvas: can i have your opinion apout a pbuild build error? 
<savvas> cristi: sure, but don't forget that I'm a beginner as well, not a motu :)
<cristi> savvas: lol i thought you were a motu.  however you surely know more about packaging than me so http://pastebin.com/m376c52b9
<savvas> pochu, maxb: just what I needed, awesome!!  thanks :)
<savvas> cristi: I think --install-layout is for python 2.6
<savvas> error: option --install-layout not recognized
<cristi> savvas: is there really a problem with debian/rules ? 
<cristi> savvas: oh
<savvas> cristi: try to substitute "for py in python2.4 python2.5" with "for py in python2.6 python2.5"
<maxb> I think jaunty's python2.5 might well accept --install-layout as a no-op
<savvas> cristi: is your pbuilder for jaunty release? 
<cristi> savvas: yes
<cristi> savvas: i don't know where to substitute that
<cristi> savvas: ï»¿ "for py in python2.4 python2.5" with "for py in python2.6 python2.5"
<savvas> cristi: cool then :) - it's in the file debian/rules :)
<cristi> savvas: >_<
<savvas> cristi: found it? 
<cristi> savvas: one moment
<savvas> maxb: right, I forgot :P
<cristi> savvas: i can't find that phrase
<cristi> i have a --install-layout=deb , it's what i added to rules
<savvas> brb
<savvas> cristi: can you paste the debian/rules file on pastebin? 
<cristi> savvas: sure
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m19039cb8
<savvas> cristi: can you paste debian/control as well? :) 
<savvas> cristi: and debian/pyversions as well, I forgot :)
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m630c5e16
<cristi> savvas: no pyversions
<cristi> savvas: only pycompat
<savvas> ah true
<savvas> ok
<savvas> so the log says "for py in python2.4 python2.5"
<savvas> in debian/rules you have something similar: for py in $(PYVERS)
<ScottK> savvas: That's the expansion of what's in rules
<savvas> PYVERS is a variable in that file
<cristi> savvas: ok, so what should i do? 
<savvas> cristi: if you look at the top of the rules file it says: PYVERS:=$(shell pyversions -r)
<savvas> also in the log it says: #
<savvas> pyversions: missing XS-Python-Version in control file, fall back to debian/pyversions
<savvas> pyversions: missing debian/pyversions file, fall back to supported versions
<savvas> #
<ScottK> Which should work OK even if it's not preferred. 
<cristi> savvas: ah so i should change PYVERS to what? 
<savvas> ScottK: so XS-Python-Version isn't necessary at all? 
<cristi> note that i don't have intrepid, but 8.04
<savvas> cristi: if pbuilder is jaunty, it's fine :)
<ScottK> It's supposed to be there, but the fallback should work. 
<cristi> savvas: it is
<cristi> ScottK: so why doesn't it? 
<ScottK> Good questions. 
<savvas> ok cristi in debian/control under "Standards-Version: 3.7.2" try putting in a new line: XS-Python-Version: all
<cristi> savvas: aha, ok
<savvas> cristi: by the way, when did you last update pbuilder? 
<cristi> should i add these changes when running dch -i? 
<ScottK> cristi and savvas: From the build log you're building against Intrepid, not Jaunty
<cristi> savvas: i installed it today
<ScottK> That's the problem. 
<cristi> ScottK: uhm, so i should have a Jaunty pbuilder? 
<savvas> ah, I missed that :P
<ScottK> Look at the version of python2.5 that's installed and then rmadison python2.5
<cristi> ScottK: i have no idea how to do that
<ScottK> savvas: Would you please help cristi get her pbuilder to be Jaunty. 
<cristi> ScottK: his!  xD omg
<savvas> cristi: to remove the pbuilder you already have try this: sudo rm /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz
<cristi> savvas: can't i just upgrade? 
<tillux> heya there.  I'm looking for a way to build a pxe-bootable image with xserver, gtk etc... I don't know where to start so I thought it'd be best to ask the masters of the universe ;)
<savvas> cristi: it's easier to start clean :)
<ScottK> cristi: You can, but you'll end up with a slightly different configuration and it will take as long if not longer. 
<savvas> sudo pbuilder --create --debootstrapopts --distribution jaunty --components "main restricted universe multiverse"
<ScottK> cristi: Every day isn't like this.   The first day is the hardest. 
<cristi> savvas ScottK: ok, so i'll start over deleting
<cristi> ScottK: hope so
<savvas> cristi: this is the command to create a new pbuilder ^
<cristi> savvas: done
<ScottK> savvas: You might also consider recommending pbuilder-dist for new people.   It's generally simpler. 
<cristi> savvas: oh w8 ok
<savvas> ScottK: never heard about it :) I'll try it :P
<ScottK> savvas: It's in ubuntu-dev-tools
<ScottK> The equivalent is pbuilder-dist jaunty create
<cristi> savvas: damn, i get an error
<ScottK> Or you can symlink pbuilder-jaunty to it and do pbuilder-jaunty create. 
<savvas> cristi: what does it say? 
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m54799feb
<savvas> cristi: let's try with pbuilder-dist, install this: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools
<cristi> savvas: i have them
<savvas> great!  execute: sudo pbuilder-dist jaunty create
<cristi> still not
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m2e854888
<savvas> give me a sec
<fta> pochu, you're welcome (pastebinit stdin)
 * fta hugs pochu back
<savvas> cristi try: sudo pbuilder-dist jaunty create --mirror "http://archive.ubuntu.com"
<cristi> savvas: it;s basically the same error
<savvas> argh
<savvas> give me a sec
<cristi> savvas: [: 195: /home/cristi/pbuilder/jaunty-amd64_result: unexpected operator
<cristi> savvas: this is extra
<savvas> cristi: how about this: sudo pbuilder --create --debootstrapopts --distribution jaunty --components "main restricted universe multiverse" --mirror "http://archive.ubuntu.com"
<cristi> savvas: same. 
<ScottK> cristi: Do you have hardy-backports enabled? 
<cristi> ScottK: i don't know what are those
<ScottK> I think they are generally called unsupported updates or something similar
<ScottK> savvas: cristi needs the deboostrap out of hardy-backports for this to work. 
<cristi> ScottK the instalation worked today
<savvas> cristi: sudo wget http://paste.ubuntu.com/129431/plain/ -O /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/jaunty
<savvas> cristi: and then: sudo pbuilder-dist jaunty create
<savvas> if this doesn't work, we'll try ScottK 's suggestion :)
<cristi> savvas: nice, it does (i think)
<savvas> nevertheless, it's good to update debootstrap from backports repositories if you'll use pbuilder: http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10ubuntu1~hardy1_all.deb
<mrooney> would anyone have time to get to bug 333639?  It is an update request and I think everything is ready to go! 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 333639 in wxbanker "Please update wxbanker to 0.4.1.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/333639
<cristi> i am installing that too
<savvas> cristi: it basically needed the script for the jaunty release, debootstrap didn't "know" about jaunty since it was released after hardy :)
<stefanlsd> How can i use a different build place for pbuilder-dist.  ive tried export BUILDPLACE and --buildplace.  It defaults here - /tmp/buildd/
<cristi> savvas: hah, cute
<RainCT> stefanlsd: PBUILDFOLDER
<savvas> cristi: once it's done, try rebuilding, without any changes (without adding XS-Python-Version), if ScottK is right, it should work :)
<RainCT> ah, build place
<RainCT> I don't know then :(
<stefanlsd> RainCT: nodnod.   my /tmp is on lvm and its too small for this package... guess i could symlink it
<savvas> stefanlsd: --buildplace should work
<savvas> any errors? 
<cristi> savvas: i guess that it is common to create the tarball first, and it's not something that should have been created previously ?: -s
<savvas> cristi: If I understood you correctly, every time you do a change in the debian source package you have to execute "dch -i" (add a changelog) and "debuild -S -sd" if the package is already in ubuntu (if the package is new or a new upstream release, use "debuild -S -sa")
<savvas> cristi: you can skip "dch -i" if you already have changed the changelog :)
<cristi> savvas: i got that so far
<savvas> usually you get the debian source package along with the tarball with this command: apt-get source packagename
<cristi> savvas: nonono, uhm i was refering to the pbuilder tarball
<stefanlsd> savvas: this is using pbuilder-dist.  does that make a difference? 
<savvas> stefanlsd: try with pbuilder (might be an error in the pbuilder-dist script?) 
<stefanlsd> savvas: will do.  my pbuilder always used to work.  not sure when in jaunty it stopped working.  seems like it doesnt read my vars in ~/.pbuilderrc
<savvas> cristi: I don't understand :\ you feed pbuilder with *.dsc files created using debuild :)
<cristi> savvas: creating base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz]
<cristi> savvas: this is what i was talking about
<savvas> ah :P
<savvas> it's created automatically if it's not already there
<savvas> I mean..
<savvas> we use --create to create it
<cristi> error: option --install-layout not recognized
<cristi> savvas: unbeliveable
<savvas> cristi: paste the whole log
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m6f64d9ba
<savvas> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com intrepid/main gettext-base 0.17-3ubuntu2 [83.9kB]
<savvas> it still uses intrepid, weird
<savvas> let me check that debootstrap script I gave you :P
<cristi> savvas: :))
<savvas> cristi: try installing debootstrap from backports, the link I gave you earlier
<cristi> savvas: uhm the problem might be with pbuilderrc? 
<cristi> savvas: i had it copied to ~/
<cristi> ~/.pbuiderrc could be the problem?  i have DISTRIBUTION=intrepid there
<savvas> er.. probably
<savvas> remove that file
<savvas> install debootstrap backports and try again: sudo rm /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz; sudo pbuilder-dist jaunty create
<savvas> third time's the charm :P
<cristi> savvas: :)) what should i get from the link you gave me? 
<savvas> cristi: wget http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10ubuntu1~hardy1_all.deb; sudo dpkg -i debootstrap_1.0.10ubuntu1~hardy1_all.deb; sudo apt-get -f install
<cristi> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 
<cristi> savvas: i don;t think that's ok
<cristi> savvas: eh, we'll see
<savvas> cristi: did it complain about dependencies? 
<cristi> savvas: damn i didn't see an error
<savvas> cristi: apt-cache policy debootstrap
<savvas> it should show you which version is installed
<savvas> debootstrap 1.0.10ubuntu1~hardy1 is the backport version
<cristi> savvas:   Installed: 1.0.10ubuntu1~hardy1
<savvas> cristi: and try again: sudo apt-get -f install
<cristi> savvas: so it's ok? 
<savvas> if it doesn't complain, then it's alright :)
<cristi> ok then rerunning pbuilder
<savvas> great, good luck :D
<cristi> savvas: i'll need it i guess ~_~
<savvas> cristi: check the logs while downloading
<savvas> Distribution is jaunty. 
<savvas> it should say jaunty, not intrepid
<cristi> savvas: it's jaunty
<savvas> then it should be ok now :)
<cristi> savvas: E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet? 
<cristi> savvas: sudo pbuilder create? 
<savvas> cristi: you used pbuilder-dist ? 
<cristi> savvas: hm?  no
<savvas> try: sudo pbuilder-dist jaunty build yourfile.dsc
<cristi> shift: 72: can't shift that many
<cristi> savvas:  -> creating base tarball [/home/cristi/pbuilder/jaunty-amd64-base.tgz]
 * savvas scratches his head
<cristi> savvas: this is part of the pbuilder create
<cristi> savvas: jaunty pbuilder create
<savvas> cristi: try: sudo pbuilder-dist jaunty build yourfile.dsc
<cristi> savvas: seems to be working, let's see results
<savvas> ah, so pbuilder-dist installs the base files locally!  :P
<cristi> savvas: /:) i don't understand
<savvas> 19:11:41 < savvas> install debootstrap backports and try again: sudo rm /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz; sudo  pbuilder-dist jaunty create
<savvas> if you used this command, you used pbuilder-dist to make the new .tgz pbuilder file
<savvas> unless you set it to be created at /home/cristi/pbuilder/ :)
<cristi> savvas: let me get you a bit of output because i don't really know if it is ok
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m452ccc06
<savvas> looks good, you got both 2.5 and 2.6 directories as far as I can see
<cristi> savvas: now, how do i do the debdiff :D?  what do i put there?  i can see in the example 2 .dsc, which? 
<savvas> cristi: while in the directory of the package folder (e.g. "somepackage-1.0.1/") type: debdiff
<cristi> debdiff: fatal error at line 248: Can't read file: debian/changelog
<savvas> cristi: ls -l
<cristi> savvas: hm i think i got it wrong
<savvas> do you see a folder like somepackage-1.0.1/ ? 
<cristi> yes
<savvas> then cd somepackage-1.0.1/
<savvas> :)
<savvas> and then: debdiff
<savvas> it should output a patch, that you can save: debdiff > ../mypatch.debdiff
<savvas> ( to access it, cd .. and cat mypatch.debdiff )
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m30d60c35
<savvas> cristi: sudo apt-get install devscripts
<cristi> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 
<savvas> ah
<savvas> sudo apt-get install patchutils
<savvas> :)
<savvas> now try again: debdiff > ../mypatch.debdiff
<savvas> cd ..
<savvas> cat mypatch.debdiff
<cristi> should mypatch.debdiff have a specific name? 
<savvas> well, no, but I like to use packagename_version.debdiff
<cristi> savvas: ok, so it's done
<savvas> yep
<savvas> what did you add in the changelog? 
<savvas> ah wait
<savvas> +  * Python 2.6 transition: added --install-layout=deb to debian/rules
<savvas> +  * Modify Maintainer value to match the DebianMaintainerField
<savvas> +    specification. 
<savvas> cristi: did you find a bug open about this? 
<cristi> savvas: in the changelog? 
<savvas> cristi: hold a sec
<savvas> cristi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pystatgrab
<cristi> savvas: ? 
<savvas> since there are no bugs open for it, click "report a bug"
<savvas> cristi: it's good to open a bug report about it, so you can close it afterwards :)
<cristi> savvas: wait.  what bug? 
<cristi> savvas: how did you reach a conclusion that there is a bug? 
<savvas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/129462/
<savvas> if you would have jaunty, you would see this error
<savvas> you could report the bug with a subject as "fails to install in jaunty"
<cristi> savvas: you took this out of one of my pastes ? 
<cristi> savvas: aha
<savvas> or the error: "Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 is to be installed
<cristi> savvas: shouldn't i upload the package first? 
<savvas> cristi: upload it where? :) 
<cristi> submit for sponsoring ? 
<cristi> i don't really know what to do next
<savvas> cristi: ok step by step
<cristi> savvas: ok, so what's next ? :D
<savvas> file the bug first, with the subject "fails to install in jaunty" and the error message in the description
<savvas> then you check if your package is main or universe, it matters because you then know who to subscribe
<savvas> check here: http://packages.ubuntu.com/python-statgrab
<savvas> it says "[universe]"
<cristi> savvas: should i give an advanced report? 
<cristi> savvas: if so, what tags should i put? 
<savvas> cristi: nothing :) but if you want to, I think these are correct: bitesize packaging
<savvas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags
<cristi> savvas: ok i submited
<savvas> ok so we know it's in universe, as I explained above
<cristi> savvas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pystatgrab/+bug/340681
<savvas> you have to subscribe the sponsors for universe
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 340681 in pystatgrab "fails to install in jaunty" [Undecided,New]
<savvas> click "subscribe someone else"
<cristi> savvas: who? 
<savvas> actually wait
<savvas> cristi: a couple of things to change in your debian/changelog
<savvas> 1) Remove this: "* Modify Maintainer value to match the DebianMaintainerField specification." 
<cristi> savvas: ok, done? 
<savvas> in ubuntu it's not required to mention that you changed it to Ubuntu MOTU Developers :)
<cristi> savvas: do i now rebuild and debdiff? 
<savvas> and 2) include this: * LP: #340681
<cristi> what is that
<savvas> that's a code the launchpad janitor detects when someone uploads the source - it uses it to close the bugs :)
<cristi> savvas: so i rebuild and debdiff? 
<savvas> you can use (LP: #nnnn) or in any way you like, as long as it says "LP: #1234"
<savvas> yes
<savvas> then attach that patch to the bug page
<savvas> "Add a comment/attachment
<savvas> by clicking ^
<ScottK> (LP: #nnnn) is the preferred formulation. 
<cristi> savvas: ah, how do i recreate the .diff? 
<savvas> debdiff > ../mypatch.debdiff
<savvas> cristi: also note what ScottK mentioned :)
<cristi> savvas: ok
<savvas> (just don't forger that ":" as I have :P)
<savvas> *forget
<cristi> savvas: now, starting from scratch, after editing the changelog what was i supposed to do again? 
<cristi> savvas: i put   * LP: #340681
<cristi> savvas: so it's with the ":"
<savvas> well you can change it again if you want to :)
<savvas> * Python 2.6 transition: added --install-layout=deb to debian/rules (LP: #340681)
<cristi> savvas: debuild -S -us -uc ? 
<savvas> (without "* LP: #340681")
<cristi> i'm confused now
<cristi> savvas:   * Python 2.6 transition: added --install-layout=deb to debian/rules
<cristi>   * LP: #340681
<savvas> ok open the editor and open debian/changelog
<cristi> savvas: is this ok? 
<savvas> Remove * LP: #340681
<savvas> And use: * Python 2.6 transition: added --install-layout=deb to debian/rules (LP: #340681)
<cristi> savvas: and that's it? 
<savvas> then save and do as you said: debuild -S -us -uc
<savvas> I hope so :)
<savvas> cristi: by the way, note the errors that debuild mentions, especially the ones from lintian checking
<savvas> if the package comes from debian, just note them, don't do anything to follow or fix them
<savvas> the less changes ubuntu has from debian, the easier is to follow debian again during debian sync stage (synchronisation of packages) :)
<cristi> savvas: ok
<cristi> savvas: i finished debdiff
<cristi> savvas: now what ? 
<savvas> 20:02:20 < savvas> "Add a comment/attachment
<savvas> and attach that file
<savvas> *that debdiff
<cristi> savvas: so i should attach the debdiff to the bug report? 
<savvas> exactly
<savvas> and check that "this attachment is a patch" check mark
<ScottK> Ping me when it's there and I'll review it. 
<savvas> will do :)
<cristi> savvas: uhm you told me the is a patch thingy too late.. i already uploaded the .debdiff
<savvas> cristi: no problemo
<cristi> savvas: i can edit that? 
<savvas> cristi: see the patch on the right menu? 
<savvas> there's an "edit" below it
<cristi> savvas: :D
<savvas> you can thank the launchpad developers for that ;)
<cristi> savvas: mkay
<cristi> savvas: and now, what goes next? 
<savvas> cristi: ok so now you have your bug, your LP: #nnn in the changelog, and the patch uploaded.  you're ready to subscribe the universe sponsors
<savvas> subscribe some else and add: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<cristi> savvas: i am not understanding what you want me to do
<savvas> click "Subscribe someone else"
<savvas> Person: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<savvas> click Add
<cristi> savvas: and that's it? 
<savvas> cristi: and that's it :)
<cristi> savvas: savvas and the package? 
<savvas> cristi: if you find another bug with this problem, you of course subscribe yourself to the bug report
<savvas> cristi: you attach debdiffs for patches, OR diff.gz for new upstream releases
<cristi> savvas: no, uhm, i mean the package, don't i upload any packages or whatever? 
<savvas> I don't know, I don't generally do that :)
<savvas> sponsors usually check the packages on their own
<cristi> savvas: so i only look for errors and report them?  or what? 
<savvas> cristi: I would look for bitesize stuff
<savvas> usually they already contain easy stuff that needs to be done
<savvas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<cristi> savvas: i don't understand what exactly is going on
<cristi> so far
<cristi> i got that package, edited what should have been edited, debuild, debdiff
<cristi> and uploaded the debdiff because there was an error? 
<savvas> it's a python transition
<savvas> let me explain
<ScottK> cristi: I'm reviewing your debdiff and if it's good, I'll upload a package with those changes. 
<savvas> ubuntu developers decided to use python 2.6 as the standard python version for ubuntu jaunty
<ScottK> cristi: There is an extra changelog.dch.save file in your diff.   I'll remove it, but watch out for that in the future. 
<cristi> ScottK: oooh so a motu looks at the debdiff and makes the changes, and uploads the package? 
<savvas> cristi: exactly :)
<ScottK> Yes. 
<savvas> sponsors = motu
<savvas> for universe :P
<cristi> savvas: i see, that really makes sence
<savvas> so everything's ok now? :) 
<cristi> savvas: however, where do i upload the debdiff if i don't get any bugs when building? 
<savvas> cristi: there are always bugs!  you mean you don't see them because you don't use jaunty :)
<cristi> savvas: so there is no chance not to be a bug
<savvas> then, as I said use a detailed subject such as "cannot install in jaunty (python transition required)"
<savvas> cristi: if there's no bug, why would you change it? 
<ScottK> cristi: One other point is line lengths no longer than 79 characters in debian/changelog.   I also fixed that. 
<cristi> nice
<savvas> cristi: note that sponsors don't usually fix the patches :P
<cristi> ScottK: ok, thank you
<cristi> savvas: so, i should have respected the line lenght and removed the changelog.dch.save
<savvas> cristi: yep! 
<cristi> alright! 
<savvas> hm..
<cristi> so, i'm done! 
<savvas> ScottK: which line was it? 
<savvas> cristi: yes :)
<savvas> welcome to the packaging side of the world!!  :D
<ScottK> savvas: The only line in debian/changelog that was added. 
<savvas> oh, "* Python 2.6 transition: added --install-layout=deb to debian/rules (LP: #340681)
<cristi> savvas:  :D thank you
<savvas> good to know :P
<savvas> cristi: another note, you start a new line under the first character of the previous one
<cristi> ScottK: how am i supposed to spot that fast? 
<savvas> * Python da da da
<ScottK> cristi: Uploaded.   Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu. 
<savvas>   new line
<cristi> ScottK Thank you!  :D yay! 
<savvas> cristi: perhaps the line lentgth was mentioned in the lintian errors :)
<ScottK> cristi: I use either vim which tells me what column I'm in or Kate which I have set to have a vertical line at 80 characters. 
<savvas> *length
<cristi> savvas: thank you a lot for the help and lost time :D
<ScottK> savvas: It's not. 
<ScottK> savvas: Thank you for helping out. 
<savvas> ScottK: ah ok :P anytime! :) 
<savvas> cristi: anytime as well :)
<ScottK> cristi: Generally it takes some longer time to get sponsored, but I took you out of turn since it was your first one. 
<cristi> ScottK: i see, thank you again then :)
<cristi> ï»¿last question for today, how do i spot more of these python transition packages? 
<ScottK> cristi: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/pystatgrab/0.4-1.1ubuntu1
<cristi> ScottK thanks
<savvas> cristi: you have to use the development release for that :)
<savvas> grep-aptavail -F Depends "python (<< 2.6)" -sPackage
<cristi> savvas: development release for what? 
<savvas> 20:36:00 < cristi> ï»¿last question for today, how do i spot more of these python transition packages? 
<savvas> you can use: grep-aptavail -F Depends "python (<< 2.6)" -sPackage
<savvas> development release = jaunty for now :)
<cristi> savvas: ok, so the packages listed are the ones that need editing for the transition
<savvas> cristi: you always check the launchpad for bugs and the source logs
<savvas> example, for binary package python-statgrab, the source package is: pystatgrab
<cristi> savvas: yes.. i thought of that, you probably get all the packages with that grep command
<savvas> you go to: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sourcepackagename
<savvas> that means: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pystatgrab
<savvas> you see if there's anything about python transition mentioned
<savvas> cristi: here's a list from jaunty: http://paste.ubuntu.com/129491/
<maxb> You could also use -sSource instead of -sPackage for the grep-aptavail
<cristi> savvas: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-renpy returned nothing
<savvas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/129493/
<maxb> best then to feed it through sort -u, since some sources will build multiple python binary packages
<savvas> ok, as maxb said :P
<cristi> savvas: so that means that i can edit the package? 
<cristi> aha..
<maxb> cristi: The binary package python-renpy is built by the source package renpy
<savvas> cristi: binary package names ! = source package names (not always :) )
<maxb> Also, 1 source package builds 1 *or more* binary packages
<savvas> cristi: here's the list with maxb 's suggestion: http://paste.ubuntu.com/129494/
<cristi> maxb: ah ok, thanks, so -sSource
<savvas> grep-aptavail -F Depends "python (<< 2.6)" -sSource | sort -u
<cristi> and if i get a page not found, i can edit the package, else it has already been done? 
<maxb> uhm, no, not at all
<maxb> If you get a page not found, you've constructed a broken URL
<maxb> So there's no package by that name for you to edit
<cristi> maxb: so how do i know which package to edit ? 
<maxb> uh, because you just picked one from the list? 
<savvas> here's a final list with links: http://paste.ubuntu.com/129497/ :P
 * savvas loves the Linkification add-on for firefox :)
<cristi> xD
<savvas> maxb: do you know a devscript that changes the control Maintainer field to ubuntu motu "automagically"? :) 
<maxb> update-maintainer? 
<savvas> let me check
<savvas> cool!  thanks :)
<hyperair> hmm i never knew there was such a thing
<hyperair> quite useful
<fabrice_sp_> Hi.  If I'm getting this error: objcopy:debian/iiimf-server/usr/lib/stA2gQhj: cannot create debug link section `debian/iiimf-server/usr/lib/debug//usr/lib/libiiimutils.so.0.0.0': Invalid operation.  Where should I open a bug report? 
<savvas> maxb: it checks if it main or motu appropriately? 
 * maxb gently nudges savvas at the manpage
<savvas> :P ok got the message haha
<hyperair> lol
<savvas> it does, nice :)
<eMerzh> I'm looking for a MOTU review on my package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ) thansk :)
<LiraNuna> Hello, I want to be able to cross compile 32bit on 64bit environment.  I got gcc/g++ -m32 working, but I still can't cross compile when it comes to extra libraries
<LiraNuna> for example, libpng, I have it as 64bit library but not as 32bit
<LiraNuna> any idea what package I need to install to achieve cross compile environment? 
<Amaranth> LiraNuna: so you just need a 32-bit libpng to link to? 
<LiraNuna> not 'just' libpng, I'm using libpng as an eample
<LiraNuna> example*
<Amaranth> ia32-libs
<LiraNuna> I got this installed. 
<LiraNuna> $ apt-cache policy ia32-libs ia32-libs:  Installed: 2.2ubuntu18
<Amaranth> LiraNuna: well that has /usr/lib32/libpng.so
<LiraNuna> hmm, that's correct - but GCC cannot find it
 * Amaranth checks wine to see what it does
<LiraNuna> ... wine ? 
<Nafallo> red please
<Amaranth> wine on ubuntu amd64 is a 32-bit app
<Nafallo> oh.  oops. 
<LiraNuna> Amaranth, ah, I see
<Amaranth> LiraNuna: so it is one example of building a 32-bit app on a 64-bit system
<LiraNuna> I use gcc/g++ -m32
<LiraNuna> and I use g++-multilib package
<Amaranth> looks like you need --libdir
<Amaranth> assuming the app is using autotools
<LiraNuna> no, custom makefiles
<LiraNuna> http://rafb.net/p/cjmTEG43.html
<Amaranth> the problem is you can't use -lpng12
<Amaranth> you have to give it the library path explicitly
<LiraNuna> bleh, -L/usr/lib32/ ? 
<Amaranth> that might work, i dunno
<LiraNuna> isn't that hardcoding ...
<LiraNuna> oh, I am using pkg-config
<LiraNuna> `pkg-config --cflags --libs $(PACKAGES)`
<Amaranth> yeah, can't do that
<LiraNuna> anyway to tell it 'use 32bit version' ? 
<Amaranth> you'll have to hard code
<Amaranth> there is no pkg-config file for the 32-bit versions
<LiraNuna> I lose portability this way...
<LiraNuna> damn :(
<LiraNuna> thanks for your help and your time
<Amaranth> LiraNuna: if you were using autotools it would be possible to do it dynamically like wine
<LiraNuna> autotools is heavy and bulky, I'd rather not use it
<Amaranth> although to be honest building wine on 64-bit seems to be a big magic, I've never managed to build it locally
<Amaranth> s/big/bit/
<cristi> can anyone provide a link with what to do for the python 2.6 transition? 
<ScottK> cristi: I can tell you how I've been finding packages than need work ....
<ScottK> You can do pbuilder login to login to your Jaunty chroot. 
<ScottK> That will give you a shell in a Jaunty environment. 
<ScottK> Then do apt-cache rdepends python2.5
<ScottK> That will give you a list of packages that still have a direct depends on 2.5 (some are OK and some are not)
<cristi> ScottK i see
<ScottK> Then try and install them in your chroot.   The ones that refuse to install with the depends on python << 2.6 error need work. 
<cristi> ScottK i was referring to what to do once you get the package, what to do to the package
<ScottK> I'm sure there are far more efficient ways to do it, but that works for me. 
<ScottK> First look in the debian directory for any hard coded references to site-packages. 
<ScottK> If you find those, that guarantees the package needs modfication. 
<ScottK> If not, try a test build and see if it rebuilds without change. 
<ScottK> If it doesn't then you know you have stuff to fix. 
<ScottK> If it does, examine the results of the build and see if it installs files in /usr/local or any odd places. 
<ScottK> There are many ways to do this.   I use debc. 
<ScottK> From your pystatgrab build you should be able to do debc pystatgrab_0.4-1.1ubuntu1_i386.changes|less in the dir with the results from your build. 
<ScottK> If that looks sane it may just need a rebuild. 
<cristi> ScottK ok, thanks
<ScottK> That's the general process I follow. 
<cristi> ScottK thanks again for the help today
<cristi> good night all
<savvas> bug 340783 for python transition :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340783 in ensymble "Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 is to be installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340783
<savvas> and this time the LP: #nnn is correct :P
<lfaraone> Hi, it seems like I might have broken the public portion of my GPG key.  This must have happened a while ago, because none of the keyservers I've checked have a valid copy.  Is there any way to find the public portion of my key, possibly from an archive or something? 
<savvas> lfaraone: name? 
<savvas> I'll try and check :)
<drewmeigs> hi, everyone. 
<savvas> lfaraone: Luke Faraone (Prior keys lost) <luke.faraone at gmail dot com> ? 
<savvas> there seems to be an old one revoked: 1024 bit DSA key 32799A20, created: 2007-04-22 (revoked)
<drewmeigs> i know this question is probably asked many times each day, but i was wondering if anyone had some advice on joining you guys aside from what is in the wiki?  i would really like to join your group. 
<ScottK> drewmeigs: My advice is just dive in, get to work, and ask questions as you have them. 
<lfaraone> savvas: oops, yes, it's 0AC-something
<lfaraone> savvas: sorry, I was away
<lfaraone> savvas: http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/stats/0AC70206.html
<drewmeigs> thank you ScottK. is it difficult to get a mentor or guide? 
<lfaraone> drewmeigs: well, what do you know already? 
<savvas> lfaraone: try: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --search-keys "faraone"
<lfaraone> drewmeigs: (about programming/packaging etc)
<ScottK> drewmeigs: There is a formal mentorship program that has a wait, but if you're a bit of a self starter you don't need one. 
<ScottK> There is almost always someone here willing to help. 
<lfaraone> ScottK:   1024 bit DSA key 0AC70206, created: 2008-01-24
<lfaraone> savvas: * 	  1024 bit DSA key 0AC70206, created: 2008-01-24
<drewmeigs> i have read through the wiki and have some theoretical knowledge.  im not saying i am ready to be a member today or anything.  i mean, i dont need someone to hold my hand, but i would like someone who could really be a mentor to me.  that would be nice.  sort of a designated resource and guide. 
<ScottK> lfaraone: Why are you pointing me at that? 
<savvas> lfaraone: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 32799A20
<savvas> lfaraone: it worked for me :) I think I got the revoked key
<lfaraone> savvas: yeah, that's my old key. 
<savvas> ScottK: error :)
<ScottK> Fair enough. 
<lfaraone> savvas: which I revoked because I had the other one, which is now broken. 
<lfaraone> drewmeigs: feel free to ask us any questions you have. 
<ScottK> drewmeigs: If you look on the wiki there is stuff about the mentorship program. 
<lfaraone> drewmeigs: do you know how to get started with MOTU? 
<joaopinto> drewmeigs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<savvas> lfaraone: so wait, you want to use your revoked key? 
<lfaraone> savvas: No, I mean 0AC70206's public key is broken on the keyserver; try to use it. 
 * lfaraone will be right back, dinner. 
<drewmeigs> i have read the wiki and all.  would someone mind telling me a good way to get started?  im not sure i was entirely clear on that. 
<savvas> lfaraone: revoked key: http://paste.ubuntu.com/129555/ and key 0AC70206: http://paste.ubuntu.com/129554/
<drewmeigs> well thanks for your help, guys.  i appreciate it.  i'll go back and read the documentation some more. 
<lfaraone> savvas: yes, when I import 0AC70206 (my non-revoked pubkey) onto a clean system and run "gpg --encrypt 0AC7026", I get gpg: 0AC70206: skipped: unusable public key
<ScottK> drewmeigs: We're in the middle of trying to update packages for Python 2.6.   If you look at the logs for earlier today where savvas and I were talking with crissi you can get a good tutorial on getting started with something useful.   See irclogs.ubuntu.com. 
<savvas> ScottK: you were some seconds late :)
<ScottK> Oh. 
<ScottK> Oh well. 
<savvas> and I didn't notice him unfortunately
<savvas> I've sent him a query message
<ScottK> OK.   Good. 
<savvas> lfaraone: no idea, sorry - the only thing I could recommend it to try and change the expiry date on the new key - maybe that would make it work :)
<savvas> *recommend is
<lfaraone> ScottK: ... oh? 
<savvas> fix that tab key :)
<lfaraone> savvas: is that seriously the problem? 
<lfaraone> savvas: that too.  :P
<lfaraone> ScottK: (sorry)
<savvas> I've no idea, just a hunch :P
<lfaraone> savvas: expires 2010-01-01 according to seahorse
<lfaraone> savvas: although there's an el-gamal subkey that expired 3 months ago...
<savvas> lfaraone: I meant bump the expiration, until 2010-06-01 or 2011-01-01, this could possibly allow you to reissue the key
<lfaraone> savvas: ah. 
<savvas> lfaraone: any luck? :) 
<lfaraone> savvas: none yet. 
<lfaraone> savvas: hm, it seems to work fine. 
<lfaraone> savvas: can you try importing it from subkeys.pgp.net and encrypting something? 
<savvas> lfaraone: I don't know how to use other people's keys other than mine :\
<lfaraone> savvas: gpg --recv-keys 0AC70206; echo blah | gpg -a -e -s -r 0AC70206
<maxb> lfaraone: So, you can sign, but you can't encrypt? 
<savvas> lfaraone: that one seems to work :)
<savvas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/129564/plain/
<savvas> mine is key 94185BB9 :P
<lfaraone> maxb: people couldn't encrypt to me because my el-gamal key was expired and GPG didn't tell me :)
 * pochu lols at bug 337396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337396 in gstreamer0.10 "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_set_valist()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337396
<lfaraone> In other news, I'm currently using an ElGamal encryption key and a DSA signing key.  Isn't DSA insecure? 
<pochu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX3F_uVDANA
<maxb> I think that's still the combination that gnupg suggests for generating new keys, so why do you think so? 
<savvas> lfaraone: isn't the bits number that matters? :) 
<lfaraone> maxb: I thought I saw someone say somethign to that effect.  Wasn't backed up by anything, however. 
<lfaraone> savvas: quite. 
<maxb> It's conceivable that DSA is weak for encryption but not for signing... but I'm not a crypto expert :-)
<lfaraone> maxb: ah. 
<maxb> Generally I trust the GnuPG guys to be recommending something sane
<lfaraone> maxb: obviously it's just easier to do rubber-hose cryptanalysis or guess my passphrase :)
<maxb> meh, I'd like to see people guess my passphrase
<maxb> It's >30 characters
<lfaraone> maxb: lord. 
<lfaraone> maxb: I prolly should regen my keys anyway, my passphrase is much less than that. 
<lfaraone> maxb: (between 8 and 12)
<maxb> 'tis amazing how quickly you can type a decently long passphrase once your fingers are used to it, if you choose one which flows over the keyboard
<lfaraone> maxb: is it a sentance? 
<maxb> no, it's an obscure bit of trivia drawn from an obscure sci-fi book
<lfaraone> maxb: which book?  :P
<maxb> sufficiently obscure that I feel comfortable announcing that to the world :-)
<maxb> Hah! 
<lfaraone> maxb: ah, so not something like "Foundation"
<lfaraone> maxb: keep in mind this is archived for all eternity :)
<maxb> The important things being that (a) it's pronouncable, and (b) it's no words you'll ever find in a dictionary
<savvas> so now it works?  :P
<lfaraone> maxb: savvas yeah. 
<lfaraone> maxb: plugh! 
<lfaraone> maxb: so something like eezeefooyotuviaseewalahmuCietu or kauxiHevahdahvohSietahcenaiDor? 
<maxb> I think I recognize pwgen at work here :-)
<lfaraone> maxb: hehe. 
<lfaraone> maxb: I'd assume that pwgen passwords are *not* secure? 
<maxb> Well, they're a whole lot more secure than anything that can be dictionary-attacked
<savvas> great :)
<maxb> Obviously they're not quite as secure as 8 fully random chars, but you've got to draw the line somewhere
<savvas> is it safer than "I'm a real bada**, I just love me!"  :p
<maxb> "It depends"
<maxb> :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-11
<savvas> bug 340816 for python transition :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340816 in fonttools "Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 is to be installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340816
<_cooper_> Hi. 
<_cooper_> I'm about to generate an ubuntu package and found in the PackagingGuide how to name the package. 
<_cooper_> "If a Debian package has been changed in Ubuntu, it has ubuntuX (where X is the Ubuntu revision number) appended to the end of the Debian version.  So if the Debian hello 2.1.1-1 package was changed by Ubuntu, the version string would be 2.1.1-1ubuntu1.  If a package for the application does not exist in Debian, then the Debian revision is 0 (e.g., 2.1.1-0ubuntu1)." 
<_cooper_> The package I'm about to generate exists neither in Ubuntu nor in Debian. 
<_cooper_> Should I better generate a debian package first and then the one for Ubuntu? 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, I see your subscribed to gnome-scan (which should be gnomescan) on revu
<_cooper_> Of course this would cause some delay. 
<savvas> _cooper_: it's probably better to include it in debian as well :)
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I subscribe to all packages I comment on ;)
<savvas> _cooper_: nothing stops you from trying in both "fronts" :)
<_cooper_> savvas: That's what I'm planning to do. 
<_cooper_> Provide packages for both distros. 
<savvas> _cooper_: and when it is included in debian, you can bump the version from 2.1.1-0ubuntu1 to 2.1.1-1ubuntu1 :)
<cody-somerville> nhandler, How was the package the last time you looked at it?  I'
<_cooper_> The quoted paragraph just made me think if I'm doing it in the wrong order. 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, I'd like to get gnomescan into jaunty
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I honestly can't remember.  I can take another look at it if you want
<cody-somerville> nhandler, that would be great
<savvas> _cooper_: just follow my suggestion, I think there won't be any problems! :)  you can send your ubuntu version to be reviewed at http://revu.ubuntuwire.org
<_cooper_> Ah.  If this won't cause confusion, then I'll do both. 
<nhandler> cody-somerville: Isn't gnomescan already in the repositories? 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, it is, yup
<nhandler> cody-somerville: So why are you going through REVU? 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, I'm not
<cody-somerville> nhandler, someone else is
<nhandler> Why? 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, "
<cody-somerville> onkarshinde, this packaging is completely rewritten, just like the software itself, this is why i pass the process from the beginning. " 
<_cooper_> savvas: Thanks. 
<james_w> directhex: hey, were you Cced on the reject of monodevelop-debugger-gdb
<james_w> ? 
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I guess that is what I get for not actually opening up the REVU page ;)
<_cooper_> savvas: Any other hints saving me to be flamed all over when submitting my first package? #-) 
<directhex> no, i wasn't
<directhex> unless it happened since i last ran my mail client
<directhex> mmm, no, nothing here
<persia> _cooper_, I'd recommend mostly focusing on the Debian route until after the Jaunty release.   Before then, few people are likely to review new packages targeting Ubuntu. 
 * ScottK seconds to _cooper_ what persia suggested. 
 * pochu seconds ScottK's second :)
<savvas> _cooper_: yes, when using debuild to build the package or the source, read the lintian errors and try to google them :)
<_cooper_> Good pont. 
<_cooper_> +i
<cody-somerville> nhandler, do you want to take on getting gnomescan into jaunty? :) 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, it would be much appreciated. 
<_cooper_> due I'm using ubuntu on my laptop, I'm interested in an Ubuntu package myself to do some more longrun tests. 
<_cooper_> I think I'll do two packages and send them off when they're done. 
<james_w> directhex: I got a REJECT, but no accompanying explanation
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I'm looking at it now.  Is bersace still working on it? 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, He commented on a bug recently hoping it isn't too late for jaunty
<directhex> james_w, and monodevelop-debugger-mdb? 
<james_w> directhex: -gdb
<directhex> james_w, you're right - mdb passed NEW
<nhandler> cody-somerville: Glad to hear that.  I'll add a comment to the bug sometime tonight.  If he keeps making the changes, I'll keep reviewing
<cody-somerville> nhandler, awesome. 
<savvas> er..
<savvas> gapti - do we need it? 
<savvas> its trunk wasn't updated since 2006: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gapti-dev/gapti/trunk
<ScottK> savvas: Is it broken? 
<savvas> ScottK: it needs python transition, I think it's easy, but I also think that it's not maintained upstream
<ScottK> If it's easy and not otherwise broken, then I'd transition it. 
<savvas> ah cool :)
<persia> Might be worth checking with asac or mvo to see if it's part of the current ThirdPartyApt plan. 
<persia> If it's just duplicate to gdebi and friends, then dropping it might be useful, as it's Ubuntu-local. 
<savvas> never tried it, I'll give it a go :)
<lfaraone> Hi, I'm seeing multiple additional LOAD_CYCLES on my laptop after about 2 minutes, should I be concerned? 
<savvas> wrong channel :p
<binarymutant> opinion question: what would be faster, running my debian package through revu to update a package already in Jaunty or waiting for Debian's ftp-masters to move it out of the new queue? 
<_cooper_> Thanks for help, I think I'll return with some questions later...
<ScottK> binarymutant: We're past Feature Freeze for Jaunty, so is this a bug fix only change? 
<binarymutant> ScottK, there aren't any bugs in the package but the one in Debian is much more "cleaner"
<binarymutant> should I just leave it alone? 
<ScottK> So you got it into Ubuntu, then got an improved version into Debian that's still in New? 
<ScottK> binarymutant: ^^
<binarymutant> ya
<binarymutant> it conforms better to Debian's python-policy
<ScottK> I'd file a bugg with a debdiff to a fixed version in it.   We generally only use REVU for new packages. 
<ScottK> Then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors. 
<ScottK> Also make sure it works with Python 2.6 ....
<binarymutant> I should send a post to ubuntu-universe-sponsors with a debdiff ? 
<binarymutant> cool thanks for the help, I found the wiki page for it
<kostmo> Is there an official "metapackage" that includes all of the tools listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20Tools
<kostmo> ? 
<kostmo> I think it would be cool to have such a metapackage linked to from that wiki
<JanC> kostmo: file a wishlist bug (of it doesn't exist yet) and maybe create it  ;-)
<kostmo> sure, I'll look
<savvas> bug 340901 for python transition :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340901 in gapti "needs python 2.6 transition and porting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340901
<JanC> savvas: your debdiff is a bit ugly (seems like your editor changed a lot of "empty" lines)
<savvas> JanC: + Replaced lines with spaces (\s+) with empty lines
<savvas> :)
<savvas> I said that since I'm fixing the source, I might as well fix most of it :P
<savvas> JanC: here's the build in case you need it: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23743844/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.gapti_0.0.2ubuntu4_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<JanC> I don't need it, I just think it's wrong to make such changes...
<savvas> JanC: the upstream hasn't updated the trunk/main series since 2006
<JanC> savvas: I think a patch to "fix" whitespace/empty-lines should be applied upstream (or in case upstream is dead, you could maybe fork it) and then pulled in in karmic koala
<JanC> but that's just my "humble opinion"  ;)
<fabrice_sp_> savvas, your changes makes a lot more complicated to review the changes.  And I would say that to change the source, you should use a patch system, as it makes easier to identify where a change comes from
<fabrice_sp_> but I'm not a MOTU, so I could be wrong
<savvas> well.. if anyone wants to make them as patches, be my guest :)
<fabrice_sp_> not the changes of spaces, for sure
<fabrice_sp_> I already patched a lot of sources, and I always used a patch system
<fabrice_sp_> anyway: you subscribed U-U-S, so let's wait for a MOTU to comment it
<savvas> I've notified the original author about that bug as well
<fabrice_sp_> about the spaces, you mean? 
<wgrant> savvas: You seem to have rewritten debian/rules, and made a whole lot excessive changes. 
<wgrant> It's unlikely that anybody will sponsor that. 
<savvas> but dh_python is deprecated as far as I could read
<wgrant> Then you just remove it, without rewriting the build system and half of the upstream code. 
<savvas> oh well, the author might want to patch it upstream :)
<wgrant> We prefer to keep the tiniest possible diff against Debian. 
<savvas> the upstream code had to be rewritten, it wasn't working otherwise
<savvas> it's not a debian package: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gapti
<wgrant> There are lots of spacing changes and importing things under different names, and using the print statement (which doesn't exist yet) and that sort of thing. 
<wgrant> The same applies to the diff between as and upstream. 
<wgrant> As much as it can be nice to play upstream sometimes, we are not upstream for gapti. 
<wgrant> And doing this will ensure that merging the next upstream release is very, very difficult. 
<savvas> I suppose you're all right
<savvas> wgrant: can you unsubscribe u-u-s until I sort this out? 
<wgrant> savvas: I'm not in u-u-s, I'm afraid. 
<savvas> darn :\ well, I'll just put a comment to disregard that patch
<wgrant> savvas: Given the sad state of the old debian/rules, and the lack of the package in Debian, you can (and probably should) replace it. 
<wgrant> I'm surprised it has gone so long without python-(support|central)... we were meant to get rid of them all years ago. 
<savvas> well I asked if it should be dropped from ubuntu, the general reply was "if you want to patch it, do it" - I guess they meant without so many changes :)
<savvas> wgrant: but either way, I could do a patch without the empty spaces changes, but it still needs to be tampered with upstream code change, some modules have changed unfortunately
<JanC> wgrant: I think you mean the print function instead of th print statement? 
<JanC> wgrant: I think that's not really an issue (although not needed yet) as it will work even in older python versions (normally)
<wgrant> JanC: That is of course what I meant. 
<wgrant> But it's an unnecessary change, as it's not required yet, so we shouldn'
<wgrant> ... shouldn't do it. 
<JanC> OTOH, no need for it in jaunty yet, and an upstream change would be more useful indeed
<wgrant> savvas: Most of the files don't require any changes. 
 * wgrant -> gone. 
<savvas> eh, it was good for practise at least
<JanC> ã
<fabrice_sp_> Does anybody knows if we should repack upstream tarball if it's a bz2 instead of a gz? 
<savvas> I think that you can use bunzip2 for that fabrice_sp_ - and gzip to make a tar.gz :)
<fabrice_sp_> savvas, I was already repacking the tarball, as upstream was including debian directory, but with the new version, it's not the case anymore, so I wanted to get rid of that 'repacking'.  Will play with watch options... thanks anyway! 
<savvas> fabrice_sp: you're using watch to update it?  you could try debian uupdate with watch, I think it automatically transforms tar.bz2 to tar.gz if I'm not wrong :P
<fabrice_sp> savvas, yes: a watch file, with uscan in a get-orig-source in debian/rules
<fabrice_sp> there is an option to uscan --repack that does the job ;-)
<savvas> ah yeah :)
<persia> fabrice_sp, When using uscan --repack, please create a get-orig-source to do that anyway, and document it as a repack in debian/README.source.   The md5sum won't match, so without the documentation, someone may feel impelled to investigate. 
<fabrice_sp> persia, ok.  I'll update the README.debian to explain that.  Thanks for the info! 
<persia> Please don't. 
<persia> README.Debian is intended to be packaging-specific end-user documentation.   It should be used when the behaviour of the packaged software differs from the upstream behaviour. 
<persia> debain/README.source is the appropriate place to put packaging-specific developer documentation, when it is useful to document what one has done for fellow developers. 
 * persia hopes the timing isn't such that that was missed
<fabrice_sp> persia, I meant README.source.  Sorry for the mistake
<fabrice_sp> README.source is the file I was editing
<persia> Excellent :)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<JanC> hm, I'm currently looking at a package coming from Debian without changes which doesn't have README.source like that despite being repackaged (AFAICS)   ;)
<fabrice_sp> Have to go now.  Bye! 
<persia> JanC, If it claims Standards-Version: 3.8.0, that's a bug.   If it claims a lower standards version, it just needs to be updated. 
<JanC> it does say 3.8.0
<JanC> I'll contact the people involved as I know them
<persia> Double-check by reading debian-policy 3.8.0, but I believe that's a bug. 
<persia> On the other hand, debian/README.source might still be optional with 3.8.0.0 (I forget precisely). 
<JanC> BTW: why should a bz2 source be repacked? 
 * JanC is a new at this
<savvas> I think the debian packaging system needs an orig.tar.gz file
<JanC> I wish all upstreams & distros would use lzma to minimize bandwidth  ;)
<savvas> I heard about a different system with patches for updates
<savvas> delta packages ?  or something like that
<JanC> savvas: that's for binary packages
<JanC> and fedora & opensuse are already using something like that AFAIK
<persia> There's ongoing work on the various archive software and build tools to use alternate compression mechanisms, but nothing widely adopted yet. 
<savvas> ah :)
<savvas> hm.. I think I have a minimalistic patch now :P
<savvas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/129654/
<dholbach> good morning
<savvas> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hiya savvas
<savvas> dholbach: you think the patch is good?  :P
<dholbach> savvas: I think you put quite some work into it - as others said already: it's a good idea to get upstream to accept it and then make use of it, so we don't have to maintain a huge delta
<dholbach> savvas: I think you're doing great work
<dholbach> my motu-release friends: what do you think about bug 340008? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340008 in ubuntu "Please sync python-django-lint (0.7-1) from Sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340008
<savvas> ah ok :)
<savvas> thanks! 
<dholbach> ROCK ON! :) 
<savvas> I've send an email to wasabi, Jerome Haltom - https://edge.launchpad.net/gapti
<dholbach> ahhh ok, didn't know he's maintaining it
<savvas> maybe I should send that patch as a bzr merge
<savvas> he's not, the trunk wasn't touched since 2006 :P
<savvas> but with a great message: "* Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload.*  Cleaned up and made first upload." 
<savvas> hehehe
<savvas> anyway, I'll wait for wasabi to respond, then see what to do :)
<directhex> james_w, any luck seeing why -gdb was rejected? 
<Toadstool> good morning! 
<savvas> does anyone know what does "-include" do in a makefile?  is it like a comment "#include" ? 
<liw> savvas, it changes how make reacts if the included file does not exist
<liw> savvas, install make-doc, and run "info doc" and type control-s and then "-include" (without the quotes) for the full story
<savvas> ah cool
<savvas> thanks liw :)
<bersace_nerim> nhandler: hi
<savvas> I think gdesklets needs just a rebuild, bug 336200 - someone should double check though, I always tend to make mistakes :)
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/336200/+text)
 * savvas bbl
<blizzkid> lo all.  I've a bit of a nasty issue with ipod-convenience in jaunty alpha 5:
<blizzkid> ipod-convenience: Depends: python-gpod but it is not going to be installed
<blizzkid> python-gpod: Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<DktrKranz> blizzkid: python-gpod has to be rebuilt against python 2.6
<blizzkid> DktrKranz: so, basically I download the source of python-gpod and build it myself? 
<DktrKranz> blizzkid: basically that's what needs to be done
<DktrKranz> we do exactly that in the buildds
<gaspa> dholbach: DktrKranz wants to invite you at our meeting... :P do you want to have a trip in italy, this month? 
<hggdh> blizzkid, you can.  apt-get source python-gpod, and go from there.  Of course, this will solve your immediate issue, but not the general one -- unless you open a bug on it. 
<gaspa> DktrKranz: right? :) 
<DktrKranz> yup! 
<blizzkid> ok DktrKranz, is there a _good_ howto on how to start with src and build a .deb out of what I created?  If I build it, I can as well build a .deb from it...
<blizzkid> hggdh: I could maybe build a deb, and attach that to the bug report? ;) 
<hggdh> blizzkid, a debdiff would be better, or even just a diff
<blizzkid> hggdh: if you can point me to a howto on creating a (deb)diff, I'll gladly try to provide one :)
<dholbach> gaspa: when?  I'm going to be quite busy
<hggdh> blizzkid, see (for starters) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Maintenance
<DktrKranz> blizzkid: you can look at pbuilderhowto in the wiki, or better wait for a proper fix (it won't take too long)
<dholbach> but trip to Italy sounds great... in general :)
<gaspa> dholbach: :) 28th of march, the end of this month
<DktrKranz> dholbach: we're going to make it a cross-meeting, we plan to invite some DDs to work together with them, so both distros can receive attention :)
<dholbach> sounds great, not sure if I'll be able to attend though
<blizzkid> k, I'll have a look hggdh and DktrKranz thx
<DktrKranz> blizzkid: I can't promise anything right now, but I will be able to look at it in the next few days for an official fix
<dholbach> DktrKranz, gaspa: Ma io non parlano italiano! 
<gaspa> dholbach: well, we'll be pleased, but of course do as you can. :) 
<gaspa> LOL
<gaspa> "parlo"
<DktrKranz> dholbach: it's not a problem, we have google translate in place :)
<dholbach> DktrKranz: guess what I used ;-)
<blizzkid> that would be cool DktrKranz
<blizzkid> btw, let me take this opportunity to thank all motu's for the great work.  Been using Ubuntu since it appeared, and still loving it
<DktrKranz> gaspa: we need to setup a simultaneous translation for dholbach, what about totopalma? :) 
<gaspa> DktrKranz: totopalma would be great! 
<gaspa> :D
<dholbach> totowhat? 
 * DktrKranz moves to lunch now
<gaspa> dholbach: our trustworthy translator
<dholbach> ahh ok
<dholbach> DktrKranz: Bon appetit! 
<nhandler> dholbach: How soon are you planning on starting those packaging lessons? 
<dholbach> nhandler: I was thinking of waiting a bit to get more input and leave a bit of time until everybody read the proposal, then mail all the people who are interested to start planning
<dholbach> nhandler: what do you think? 
<nhandler> dholbach: Sounds fine by me.  Just be sure to give the people interested in leading a session enough time to prepare
<dholbach> nhandler: sure... thanks a lot for volunteering already! 
<nhandler> :)
<dholbach> nhandler: as long as we don't have too high expectations on what people should deliver there and we're very inviting, we should be fine :)
<nhandler> dholbach: I think these will be a big success.  Some will have more audience participation than others, but I think many people are interested in learning about packaging
<dholbach> yeah, I hope so :)
<blizzkid> hmmz, I installed libgdk-pixbuf2 and libgdk-pixbuf-dev, but when running configure I get "checking for GDKPIXBUF... no".  Am I missing something here? 
<lfaraone> What's the chance I could get this in jaunty+1?  http://www.vergenet.net/~conrad/scripts/pants.html
<ScottK> lfaraone: Almost none. 
<ScottK> lfaraone: Package it for Karmic and then have a backport. 
<ia> hello.  could you tell me, please, after i've done with building packages, is it safely to remove /var/cache/pbuilder/build/* dirs? 
<lfaraone> ScottK: that's *exactly* what I said, I was talking about getting it into karmic.  jaunty + 1 == karmic :)
<lfaraone> ia: I'd assume so. 
<ScottK> lfaraone: Ah.   I missed the +1.   Sorry. 
<lfaraone> ScottK: I was refering to whether the package would be rejected for serving no useful purpose. ( akin to "sl")
<ScottK> lfaraone: It's a game.   I think games are fine. 
<ChrisBuchholz> Hi, I'm all new to packaging and whatever term you can mention, but I would like to learn how I can pack an app and send it off to a repo and whatever is between that.  Can you guide me in the right directions with some references or something? 
<soren> ChrisBuchholz: I believe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is the canonical starting point. 
<soren> ChrisBuchholz: there's also #ubuntu-nordic-dev if you'd rather discuss in Danish/Swedish/Norwegian. 
<soren> ...or Finnish/Icelandic, I suppose, but I don't think you'll get a lot of response that way :)
<ChrisBuchholz> Many thanks, Soren, I'll give it a shot, bye;)
<soren> persia, geser: I won't be able to attend the MC call today.  Due to premature DST in the US, I have a conflict. 
<ripps> Does anybody know where I can get some documentation on the Gnome dbus multimedia keys framework? 
<dholbach> ripps: tried asking in #ubuntu-desktop? 
<slytherin> persia: any idea what all changes are needed to visualvm packaging to compile it against latest netbeans packages? 
<persia> slytherin, None at all, I'm afraid. 
<slytherin> It is not a simple rebuild that is for sure.  I tried some packaging changes the other day but was stuck and I have limited knowledge about visualvm
<persia> From the limited information I received, I think visualvm was one of the reasons that libnb-platform was versioned at a source level. 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<savvas> geser: hi, could you check bug 336200 when you find some spare time?  I'm almost certain that it just needs a rebuild :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336200 in gdesklets "Dependencies for gdesklets are no longer fulfilled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336200
<savvas> this is the pbuilder log of gdesklets_0.36-5 (the already existing version): http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23747311/last_operation.log
<ScottK> savvas: What are you expecting geser to do that you can't/haven't already done yourself? 
<savvas> ah so it's done? 
<savvas> Well I thought I need a second opinion just to be sure I am correct :)
<ScottK> OK.   Fair enough
<savvas> sorry to poke around :)
<savvas> hm...
<savvas> it seems to depend on python 2.4 still
<savvas> ScottK: is there an environment variable I can set to use a specific python version? 
<savvas> or anyone? 
<geser> savvas: specify it at the shebang of the script
<savvas> I'll try that
<savvas> thanks
<savvas> hmm Could not import tiling module! 
<savvas> /usr/lib/gdesklets/utils/tiling.la
 * savvas looks at the source code
<savvas> er..
<savvas> after reading http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12217 and a bunch of other sites, the error I get seems to be fixed in gdesklets 0.36.1
<savvas> I'll file a bug
<savvas> nope, the debian version isn't working either heh
<rulus> Hello, I'm trying to package a daemon.  It provides an initscript which should go in /etc/init.d/. The problem is that dpkg thinks this script is a configfile, so it doesn't get removed unless --purged.  Is this normal behaviour and how to get passed it?  Is there a good (easy) example of a packaged daemon? 
<TheMuso> rulus: THats what happens normally, any package tat has an initscript doesn't have the script remove unless the package is purged. 
<rulus> ah ok, so nothing to worry about then :)
<savvas> true, it's in /etc/ :)
<TheMuso> rulus: no
<rulus> thanks! 
<TheMuso> rulus: WHich is why you will see many initscripts depending on the binaries they need to function before they actually do anything. 
<TheMuso> rulus: s/depending on/checking for/
<rulus> TheMuso: ok, seems a good thing to do indeed
<cristi> i am not so familiar with python, so how do i know what changes should be done for the python transition again? 
<cristi> the 2.6 transition
<cristi> i only modified something in the control of a package, and run dch -i.  however debdiff says debdiff: fatal error at line 266: Can't read file: ../espeak_1.32-0ubuntu1.dsc .  What is the problem?  i am just a beginner
<cristi> come on?  can't anyone give me a hand? 
<ScottK> cristi: What did you feed debdiff? 
<cristi> ScottKi run it in the file with /debian
<cristi> the problem is that it asks for espeak 1.32 and i have 1.36 as a .dsc
<ScottK> Generally it works best if you debdiff libmail-dkim-perl_0.32-1.dsc libmail-dkim-perl_0.33-1.dsc (for example) when both files are in the current dir. 
<cristi> ScottK: what are the 2 debdiff parameters?  the i didn't see that in the wiki
<ScottK> It's the .dsc for the two package revisions your are trying to diff. 
<ScottK> If you look at man debdiff you'll see there's lots of ways to do it, but that's what I always use. 
<cristi> ScottK: the second .diff is done by debuild ? 
<ScottK> Yes.   Debuild -S -us -uc your knew revision first. 
<ScottK> Then you'll have a .dsc in the parent dir for the new revision. 
<cristi> ScottK: yes, thank you, it worked, but i don't know how the first debuild didn't create the right .dsc
<ScottK> cristi: Then look at the top entry in debian/changelog and make sure it refers to the correct version. 
<cristi> ScottK however, is there any point in submitting a debdiff to this bug ?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/espeak/+bug/250860
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 250860 in espeak ""konqueror" is mispelled in package description" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cristi> i guess not, but at least i am starting to get used with the tools
<ScottK> cristi: That one is already fixed in Ubuntu anyway. 
<cristi> ScottK: ï»¿how do i know what changes should be done to the python packages for the python transition again?  sorry for bugging you with this :-s
<ScottK> cristi: At this point just playing with the tools is good.   It's a strong learning curve at the beginning. 
<ScottK> Didn't we go over this yesterday? 
<ScottK> If your IRC client doesn't log there is irclogs.ubuntu.com. 
<ScottK> I'll be glad to answer specific questions, but don't have time today to redo the tutorial. 
<cristi> ScottK ok
<savvas> cristi: hi :)
<cristi> savvas: hey there
<savvas> Would you prefer to make a patch for a Makefile that uses python setup.py or just include the commands in debian/rules ? 
<cristi> savvas: if i see setup.py in the package, but however it is not mentioned in rules, i don't have to change anything? 
<savvas> cristi: if it's mentioned in the install rule, I think you have to add a parameter --install-layout=deb
<cristi> savvas: yes, but i don't see it in install rule
<savvas> cristi: paste the debian/rules
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/maf3a3de
<savvas> cristi: I don't know about that one :\ I've never seen one like it so far! 
<savvas> it seems it uses configure.py
<cristi> savvas: i'll just leave rules untouched
<cristi> ? 
<savvas> cristi: well, try, but if you see your files installed in /usr/local/... then something is wrong ;)
<savvas> when the binary package is built, check it: dpkg-deb -c yourfile.deb
<savvas> it shows the contents of the package
<cristi> ok
<porthose> when preparing an FFe would PPA build logs be sufficient? 
<savvas> ScottK: I forgot got to thank you about pbuilder-dist recommendation, it's great, thanks! :) 
<ScottK> savvas: YW.   Thank RainCT as he wrote it. 
<savvas> RainCT: thanks for the pbuilder-dist script, very useful hehe, saves me a lot of keystrokes :)
<cristi> savvas: i don't see it anywhere it /usr/local/
<savvas> cristi: it's built in: cd $HOME/pbuilder/jaunty_result
<savvas> and you do: dpkg-deb -c *.deb
<cristi> savvas: i used pbuilder-dist jaunty login
<cristi> savvas: that's no good? 
<RainCT> savvas: great, I'm happy that you like it :)
<RainCT> ls
<savvas> cristi: type: cd $HOME/pbuilder/jaunty_result
<savvas> cristi: and then: dir
<savvas> do you see any .deb files? 
<cristi> savvas: bash: cd: /home/cristi/pbuilder/jaunty_result: No such file or directory
<cristi> lol
<savvas> cristi: ls ~/pbuilder
<savvas> cristi: I think you can figure it out, find a *result* folder inside ~/pbuilder :)
<savvas> cristi: nautilus ~/pbuilder
<savvas> :P
<savvas> use cd to get into that folder
<savvas> and then when you see .deb files: dpkg-deb -c *.deb
<cristi> savvas: ok, thanks
<ScottK> savvas: Do you know about debc? 
<cristi> savvas: i see only for pystatgrab
<cristi> savvas: i was working on pyqwt
<savvas> debc? 
<savvas> ScottK: what's that? :) 
<savvas> cristi: paste the output of the dpkg-deb -c *.deb command at pastebin :)
<savvas> cristi:  ah wait
<savvas> cristi: you mean you don't see your package? 
<cristi> savvas: yes..
<ScottK> savvas: It's a decent utility for doing what you're after here. 
<savvas> then it's probably not built correctly
<ScottK> debc the binary.changes file. 
<savvas> were there any errors in the log of pbuilder? 
<cristi> dh_install: python-qwt5-qt3 missing files (usr/lib/python*/Qwt5/*), aborting
<cristi> make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1
<cristi> savvas:it's because of one of the .install files i edited i guess
<savvas> cristi: paste the whole output so we can see where the problem is :)
<savvas> ScottK: thanks!  I'll check/try it out once we get it built hehe :)
<cristi> savvas: it was larger than my scroll.  should i rebuild with a bigger scroll, or the one i have will do? 
<cristi> savvas: http://pastebin.com/m7d5d0c61 this is what i have
<savvas> cristi: the latest log file is saved somewhere in the ~/pbuilder folder :)
<savvas> mine is last_operation.log
<savvas> cristi: paste debian/control too
<cristi> savvas: the error comes from a .install file.  you sure you want debian/control? 
<savvas> cristi: which package you said it was? 
<cristi> pyqwt
<savvas> <cristi> i modified usr/lib/python*/site-packages/Qwt5/* to usr/lib/python*/Qwt5/*
<savvas> use this: usr/lib/python*/*-packages/Qwt5/*
<savvas> site-packages is used for python versions 2.5 (or less up to some point :P)
<savvas> dist-packages is used by 2.6
<savvas> so *-packages grabs both :)
<cristi> savvas: i see, i wish i had more general knowledge about this matter
<cristi> modifief usr/lib/python*/site-packages/PyQt4/Qwt5/* to usr/lib/python*/PyQt4/Qwt5/* is ok? 
<cristi> or like this usr/lib/python*/-packages/PyQt4/Qwt5/*
<maxb> You're still missing a *
<cristi> ï»¿usr/lib/python*/*-packages/PyQt4/Qwt5/*
<cristi> maxb: is this ok? 
<maxb> Assuming you've just changed "site" to "*", yes
<cristi> maxb: thank you
<savvas> cristi: all in time, I didn't know about this either a week ago :)
 * quadrispro working at Python 2.6 transition
<ScottK> apt-cache rdepends python2.5|grep -c "  "
<ScottK> = 119
<ScottK> Plenty more to do
<cristi> that's kind of good news for me, i have to get used with editing packages
<mrooney> ScottK: and those are just the packages that explicitly list their < 2.6 dependency :)
<maxb> And then there's the packages which install, but spew DeprecationWarnings :-)
<savvas> man, when dpatch is in build-depends it should fail to allow direct patches :P
<maxb> lintian will whine already :-)
<savvas> it does, but I just found a package with 3 files edited directly with dpatch installed :)
<ScottK> savvas: Were the direct edits done in Debian or Ubuntu? 
<cristi> does this lintian error pose any problems ?  bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty
<nhandler> cristi: No, you can ignore that.  It just has to do with the version of lintian you have
<ScottK> cristi: No.   It just means you might want a newer lintian.   There is one that know about Jaunty in hardy-backports. 
<cristi> nhandler ScottK: thank you
<cody-somerville> ScottK, I'd like to extend the Xubuntu delegation to include mr_pouit
<cody-somerville> (for FFe's)
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Personally I'm fine with that, but we need to get concurrence from MOTU release more generally. 
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Would you write an email to all of us cc the MOTU ml? 
<cody-somerville> Can I just send it to the motu ml instead of tracking down e-mail addresses for all the release members?  :P
<ScottK> I suppose that's fine. 
 * cody-somerville assumes motu-release is subscribed to -motu ml
<ScottK> Although if you look at the MC list today there's a mail to all of us right there. 
<nhandler> cody-somerville: You can also use the Contact this Team feature on Launchpad
<cody-somerville> Not to be difficult but I believe the motu mailing list is the best place for this
<cody-somerville> and if motu-release members aren't subscribed to that mail list, they shouldn't be in that team
<cristi> can anyone take a look at this pbuilder build output and tell me if there is anything wrong with it?  i see some warnings about the changelog are those important? 
<cristi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/129934/
<iulian> nhandler: Doing that will send a mail to all members from ~ubuntu-release as well. 
<nhandler> iulian: True.  I forgot that they were part of motu-release on LP.  However, sending to the MOTU mailing list would also result in all of these people getting an email ;)
<iulian> nhandler: Indeed. 
<nhandler> cody-somerville: Do whatever you want.  As long as I get the email, I am fine
<ScottK> cristi: Yes, you need to worry about those. 
<ScottK> cristi: Would you pastebin your debian/changelog
<cristi> ScottK http://paste.ubuntu.com/129935/
<cristi> ScottK too many characters/line?  tabs not allowed?  what's wrong with it
<ScottK> Don't use tabs.   Use spaces. 
<ScottK> Debian/changelog is supposed to be machine parseable, so the formatting is pretty fiddly. 
<cristi> ScottK should i edit only changelog or the changelog.dch and rerun debuild ? 
<ScottK> Just edit it and then rerun debuild. 
<iulian> And don't mention in the changelog that you modified the Maintainer field. 
<iulian> cristi: ^
<cristi> iulian: argh damn it now i have to do it again xD
<cody-somerville> ScottK, nhandler, etc.  sent
<cristi> ScottK since the changelog warnings were the only errors is it necessary to rebuild? 
<vollepulle1_> ioioio
<cody-somerville> oh crap
<vollepulle1_> hallo
<cody-somerville> I sent using the wrong e-mail address
<cody-somerville> Anyone here a moderator for the motu ml? 
<ScottK> cristi: If you update your ubuntu-dev-tools from hardy-backports I think update-maintainer won't add that anymore. 
<cristi> this is the output of pbuilder build http://pastebin.com/m531d706a i'm a bit confused about what am i suppose to do with it.  Last time there was a bug whici i reported.  now i only get some warnings.  Can anyone tell me what should i do when i reach this point: the output of pbuilder build? 
<maxb> cristi: As in, you have a change, and you want to request that it be uploaded?  Then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<cristi> maxb: thanks! 
<cristi> maxb: so i simply attach the debdiff to a bug report? 
<maxb> that's what the wiki page says...
<cristi> so, it's like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sonata/+bug/341409
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 341409 in sonata "Edited the package for the Python 2.6 transition" [Undecided,New]
<cristi> thank you for the help, bye
<amikrop> Greetings. 
<amikrop> Canonical, or even better, The Linux Foundation, should seriously collaborate with major software vendors like EA sports, Blizzard or Adobe. 
<amikrop> It's unacceptable to be unable to use very popular and useful applications. 
<lucas> (lol)
<directhex> amikrop, typically those companies won't get out of bed for less than 7 figures
<broonie> amikrop: It's mostly up to them seeing enough market to make it worth their while to support Linux; there has been commercial binary only software for Linux since forever (see some of the stuff in the partners repo for example)
<broonie> But in any case, you probably want to find a more relevant channel. 
<amikrop> broonie: commercial binary only?  Does Football Manager have linux binaries?  What about Warcraft?  What about almost *any* widespread game? 
<amikrop> directhex: excuse me, I didn't quite understand that
<directhex> amikrop, most commercial app vendors won't commit a single resource to a linux port of something without being paid in advance for it. 
<directhex> see also: valve's demands to apple for mac half-life
<amikrop> OK.  The Linux Foundation, or linux and specific distro sponsors should pay. 
<amikrop> In advance. 
<ajmitch> amikrop: I trust you'll be donating then
<amikrop> ajmitch: No. 
<broonie> amikrop: Oracle and stuff; in terms of games iD software have done Linux builds since Doom and I actually have copies of some of the Civ games for Linux. 
<directhex> broonie, loki went bust! 
<amikrop> It's really sad, anyway.  You have to use Windows, which is tragically crap, in order to have access to major software applications and games.  That has to dramatically change.  Very soon. 
<broonie> directhex: I know; tends to suggest that the folks who say there's no market have a point :)
<directhex> amikrop, i'm aware of the situation, i'm still on the front page of google if you look for "linux gaming"< 5 years after writing an article
 * ajmitch is wondering what the MOTUs are expected to do about this dire catastrophe
<directhex> broonie, there's a limited market.  question of deciding size of fish for size of pond. 
<directhex> ajmitch, port gears of war please, kkthx.  no source, but disassemblers are great, i hear
<ajmitch> directhex: mmk, I'll get right on it
<directhex> ta
<ajmitch> I won't port world of warcraft, because that'll just cause everyone to stop developing & start playing WoW
<broonie> directhex: Don't be stuipid, we just need a full speed XBox emulator. 
<amikrop> directhex: I see. 
<directhex> broonie, and moar mhz
<broonie> I'll come round and paint go faster stripes on your CPU, will that work? 
<directhex> amikrop, to some extent, you're right.  but the financials are not promising.  especially in the current climate, and given the people being talked about
<amikrop> directhex: Which article of them is yours, by the way? 
<directhex> amikrop, the one on hexus.net
<directhex> amikrop, you're right that more games would be great.  but the financials right now aren't great for a very large percentage of titles.  indie titles get done (e.g. world of goo recently), or games with highly cross-platform engines & a need for friendly sysadmins to run servers (e.g. id software). 
<andresmujica> Hi MOTUs! 
<andresmujica> i wonder if someone can help me with this bug #317860
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317860 in mobile-broadband-provider-info "Request to upgrade to latest SVN 3G profiles" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317860
<andresmujica> the lastest 3g profiles reported at launchpad and all around are at upstream SVN, a quick update to the package would be great for Jaunty a6
<amikrop> directhex: Aha.  Well, let's hope something will make the big difference and things will change. :-) 
<directhex> amikrop, short version: moar users.  you could help andresmujica, i'm sure that's worth a couple of users
<amikrop> directhex: help him with what? 
<andresmujica> amikrop: 317960
<andresmujica> bug
<andresmujica> bug #317860
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317860 in mobile-broadband-provider-info "Request to upgrade to latest SVN 3G profiles" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317860
<dtchen> DktrKranz: WRT #339541, does `sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset' resolve the issue? 
<amikrop> andresmujica: And how is that bug related to our conversation? 
<DktrKranz> dtchen: no, I still can hear sound from left speaker only
<dtchen> DktrKranz: ok, if you have a moment, i'll continue the debugging
<DktrKranz> dtchen, sure, thanks for your interest in it :)
<dtchen> DktrKranz: first thing is to `sudo fuser -k /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*'
<DktrKranz> /dev/snd/controlC0:   3611
<dtchen> DktrKranz: then, sudo cp /var/lib/alsa/asound.state /var/lib/alsa/asound.state.orig
<dtchen> DktrKranz: sorry, s/cp/mv/
<DktrKranz> done
<dtchen> DktrKranz: next, sudo modprobe -r snd_via82xx
<DktrKranz> done with a warning: "WARNING: All config files need .conf: /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base-blacklist, it will be ignored in a future release." 
<dtchen> DktrKranz: ok, if you can reboot, please reboot. 
<DktrKranz> ok, back in a while
<dtchen> the codec needs at least a re-init
<DktrKranz> dtchen, rebooted, but with no improvements
<dtchen> DktrKranz: and you did use mv and not cp, correct? 
<DktrKranz> yes
<dtchen> ok, thanks.  i'll look into it further. 
<DktrKranz> thank *you* :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-12
<nhandler> Congrats jpds! 
<Laney> what's the outcome of the vote? 
<nhandler> Laney: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls
<nhandler> Yes majority on all 3 votes
<Laney> nice one, congrats
<Laney> (I didn't know how to interpret the results)
<ajmitch> just a rubber-stamp
<ajmitch> if more yes than no, it passes
<dtchen> Andrew Mitchell for MOTU Council in 2007  - closed on 2007-02-15 ;-)
<dtchen> geez, we're fogeys
<Laney> *ancient*
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> such a long time ago now
<blackmoon105> if i rebuild a .deb package that already exist in the debian repositories (with a debian mantainer), i must write my name as mantainer in the "control" file for the ubuntu build, it's right? 
<nhandler> Where are you building the package blackmoon105 ?  In your PPA? 
<blackmoon105> nhandler: yes, in my PPA
<blackmoon105> nhandler: yes, i'm building the package in my PPA
<nhandler> blackmoon105: Then I would set yourself as the Maintainer and move the Debian Maintainer to the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<blackmoon105> nhandler: ok, thanks
<wasabi> savvas: ping
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there an ubuntu equivilant to Debians dev-ref?  I've found the customised Ubuntu debian-policy, but not the ref. 
<ScottK> Kamping_Kaiser: Is there something specific you're looking for?   Most of our stuff is in w.u.c somewhere. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> ScottK, the build dependancies allowed/disallowed between parts of the archive (main/universe/restrcited and release/release-updates/release-security etc)
<ScottK> I'm sure that's documented somewhere, but I couldn't tell you exactly where. 
<ScottK> I can tell you how it works though if you want. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> please do. ( it'll give me a starting point to try and find the 'proper' documentation)
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Each layer of the archive has to be completely self contained. 
<ScottK> Packages in Main can only build-dep, depend, or recommend other packages in Main. 
<ScottK> Then for Universe it's Universe + Main. 
<ScottK> Restricted is Main + Restricted. 
<ScottK> Multiverse is Main, Restricted, Universe, and Multiverse. 
<ScottK> Is that sensible? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> yep, with you so far. 
<ScottK> OK. 
<ScottK> At release time you get the release pocket. 
<ScottK> -updates and -security both build on themselves and -release. 
<ScottK> The trick is that -security updates get copies from -security to -updates on some periodic. 
<ScottK> So -updates ends up with all the post-release changes. 
<ScottK> (if a package has a -update and then gets a security fix in -security you have to change the package in -updates (or -proposed) to have that security fix. 
<ScottK> Packages destined for -updates are uploaded to -proposed and then built and tested there. 
<ScottK> Once blessed they are copied from -proposed to -updates. 
<ScottK> How's that? 
<ScottK> Kamping_Kaiser: ^^^
<Kamping_Kaiser> so if i undestand correctly, -release is equivilant to debians 'frozen'.  then after release -updates builds using -updates and -release, security builds using -security and -release.  but does not build using -security, -release *and* -updates ? 
<ScottK> Yes.   I'm not certain, but I think -updates also builds against -security although it doesn't matter much because stuff gets copied from -security to -updates anyway. 
<ScottK> The reason for this is that running with just security updates and not bugfixes is a supported use case. 
<ajmitch> security is considered more conservative, so it won't grab any of the 'riskier' stuff from -updates
<Kamping_Kaiser> i see.  this bit is specifically what i'm trying to find a policy on. 
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'd put it slightly differently.   I'd say it's considered more essential.   The risk may be higher or lower, but it's more worth taking. 
<ajmitch> same thing, different perspective really
<Kamping_Kaiser> ScottK, current linux-image in hardy-security depends on stuff in -updates to build and install.  this is a pita for gNewSense, since we dont offically support updates, and which is whats started me looking into this whole thing. ( i posted on -dev about this last night but go no bites)
<ScottK> There was a recent discussion on this in ubuntu-devel because of gcc updates getting into -updates and the risk of some stuff ending up misbuilt. 
<ajmitch> the discussion on -devel sounds like exactly what you're talking about with the kernel there
<ScottK> Yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> and since my recollection was '-updates should be optional', and we've had packages rebuilt because they depended on -updates before, i was surprised to be told privately -security could depend on -updates
<ScottK> It's not supposed to as I understand it.   I'd ask kees. 
<ajmitch> or doko, he seemed to know about it as well, since it was gcc
<Kamping_Kaiser> would sending kees an email be the best move, or ping him on irc later? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> I guess email, then i can include this convo for background. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> ScottK, and ajmitch  thanks very much for the help
<ajmitch> you've read the thread about this time last month about kernel-compiler mismatches? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, but i could do.happened on u-dev list? 
<ajmitch> yeah it did, it pretty much covers what you were talking about, I think
<Kamping_Kaiser> I'll go and check, thanks. 
<ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027366.html
<Kamping_Kaiser> ta
<Kamping_Kaiser> I dont see anyone object to ScottK 's mention of the 'without updates' usecase, so I might file a bug on the linux packages
<Kamping_Kaiser> I've jut fired off an email.  Thanks again.  I'm sure I'll be back later. 
<jdong> what do people feel about backporting config-package-dev? 
<jdong> bug 315264
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/315264/+text)
<jdong> I was looking over the diff and couldn't really see anything that would pose a problem
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach. 
<dholbach> hey iulian! 
<fabrice_sp_> Hi.  About python2.6 transition.  What should I do if a package still depends on python2.5, but build with python2.6, and don't have any issues with python2.6?  add an entry for package rebuild in changelog? 
<fabrice_sp_> and submit hte debdiff? 
<fabrice_sp_> have to go now.  Bye! 
<Toadstool> g'morning
<dholbach> directhex: OK, if I re-add the planet ubuntu thing? 
<directhex> dholbach, oh, oops.  yes, go ahead
<dholbach> directhex: also I'll run update-maintainer for you - it's time you get a ubuntu.com mail address! :) 
<directhex> i am the king of upsate-maintainer suck
<slytherin> does anyone have any idea if libdvdread is used by xine?  If not then it should be removed from kubuntu-restricted-extras dependencies. 
<directhex> slytherin, try playing a dvd with xine - libdvdread spams output on stdout iirc
<dholbach> directhex: uploaded
<directhex> dholbach, thanks.  sorry for the debdiff cock-up.  i wasn't thinking properly - it's a while since i've merged anything since full syncability was a jaunty goal
<dholbach> directhex: no worries
<directhex> which gnome# 2.24's abi break hasn't helped with.  such is life
<slytherin> directhex: Will try tonight
<directhex> dholbach, i'll ask the maintainer if he'd consider adding planet ubuntu at that end
<dholbach> directhex: super, thanks
<dholbach> can't believe there's not more people in the motu group: http://identi.ca/group/motu
<directhex> i don't "get" this twittering things
<directhex> also, not a motu
<dholbach> ... yet :)
<cristi> dholbach: hy, are you Daniel Holbach ? 
<dholbach> cristi: yep
<cristi> dholbach: you asked for mmkeys.so here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sonata/+bug/341409
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 341409 in sonata "Edited the package for the Python 2.6 transition" [Undecided,New]
<cristi> dholbach: i don't know what are you refering
<dholbach> cristi: run less on the old python-mmkeys .deb and on the new one and compare
<dholbach> or dpkg -c
<dholbach> you'll see that the old package had two versions (one for python2.4, one for python2.5) of the .so file, the new package just has one for python2.5
<cristi> dholbach: i see your point now
<dholbach> ok good
<dholbach> I'm not an expert, I just thought it might be a problem :)
<cristi> dholbach: however, since 2.4 will not be used anymore, and it was posted for the python transition, is it necessary to add the 2.4 version? 
<dholbach> cristi: no, dropping 2.4 is fine - there's just no 2.6 version
<cristi> dholbach: i am new with packaging, so i don't really know what i have to do now.  i followed https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027528.html for the python transition.  i used a jaunty pbuilder to build.  what should i do? 
<dholbach> cristi: to be honest, I don't know - as I said: I'm not an expert
<cristi> dholbach: oh, mkay, then hopefully soon a motu will take a look for sponsoring, and give me a feedback with what is wrong
<dholbach> yep
<jpds> nhandler: Thank you, you too! 
<AdamDH> if I change my package to a different Series say Januty instead of Intrepid but the version does not change do I need a change log entry to reflect this? 
<AdamDH> I noticed some package do some do not, just wanted to know what was best practice
<directhex> you can't have 2 different packages with the same version number
<AdamDH> I am just changing the packaging more than anything not the actual source
<directhex> so? 
<AdamDH> so just bump the version and change the changelog to show the packaging has been updated? 
<AdamDH> this is the first time I have been in this situation with packages I have created
<hyperair> AdamDH: that's right. 
<hyperair> AdamDH: you cannot have two packages of the same version in the same repository, even if it's in a different series
<directhex> AdamDH, the bit after the - is specifically for packaging-related versioning
<directhex> that's why -2, -3, etc, exist
<AdamDH> so could I just append say -0ubuntu1~ppa1 to show the packaging has been update and change the changelog? 
<AdamDH> or is it just -0ubuntu1 and increase the 1? 
<hyperair> AdamDH: something like that. 
<hyperair> AdamDH: read the packaging guide
<hyperair> and read the ppa guide
<directhex> AdamDH, append -0ubuntu1~ppa1 to what existing version? 
<AdamDH> 0.14 is the version
<hyperair> try not to have <upstream-version>-N or <upstream-version>-NubuntuM in a ppa. 
<hyperair> add a suffix
<directhex> AdamDH, 0.14 is the PACKAGE version? 
<hyperair> ~somethingX if you want it to be superseded by the corresponding ubuntu/debian version
<hyperair> +somethingX otherwise
<AdamDH> yup 0.14 is the upstream version
<hyperair> okay, and what's the ubuntu version? 
<directhex> AdamDH, i didn't ask that, i asked what the PACKAGE version was. 
<directhex> AdamDH, packages are versioned upstreamver-pkgrevision, unless they are "native" packages (i.e. the distro is upstream and it's only used in the distro), say... update-manager
<AdamDH> there is no pkgrevision yet I am doing the revision
<hyperair> then 0ubuntu1
<hyperair> 0ubuntu1 if it goes into ubuntu
<hyperair> 1 if it goes into debian
<directhex> you said you were changing your package though.  you have an EXISTING package, with package version number 0.14? 
<hyperair> and 0ubuntu1~ppa1 if it goes into a ppa
<AdamDH> yes there is an exsisting package for intrepid with version 0.14 but the code will not change just the packaging
 * hyperair headdesks
<hyperair> i give up
<directhex> sigh, i feel i'm having trouble communicating here
<hyperair> directhex: you and me both
<AdamDH> sorry The versioning ubuntu is using is just confusing me at the moment
<directhex> 0.14 is NOT A VALID PACKAGE VERSION, other than a HIGHLY specific exception.  if you've been using it, you've been doing things wrong. 
<hyperair> AdamDH: did you read ANY DAMN THING that directhex just said?! 
<AdamDH> yes I did, want to start a fresh so I can explain what I have started with? 
<directhex> if the upstream tarball says 0.14, and versions are meant to be upstream-revision, then the format must be 0.14-1 or 0.14-0ubuntu1
<AdamDH> I think your refering to something I know as something else so its causing a little confusion, sorry
 * hyperair will now head out to eat dinner. 
<directhex> using a native package causes significant issues, as it kills off the orig/diff system
<directhex> i.e. you no longer have a pristine upstream tarball (orig) against which your packaging work applies (diff) so updates to the existing version are impossible (can't re-use orig)
<AdamDH> the upstream tar is 0.14 so it should be upstream-revision?  so I should be using 0.14-1 or 0.14-0ubuntu1 ? 
<AdamDH> right makes sense
<directhex> and if you're only going into a PPA for now, append ~ppa1 to the end, meaning "this is the PPA version of 0.14-0ubuntu1, but i want the 'real' 0.14-0ubuntu1 to be installed given the option"
<directhex> that way a distro 0.14-0ubuntu1 repolaces your PPA version
<AdamDH> the packages I created in my PPA I did msp430-binutils - 2.19.1-0ubuntu1~ppa4 etc
<AdamDH> but I am working with packages created by some one else at the moment hence the confusion and updating those
<AdamDH> thanks for the help directhex, hyperair
<directhex> james_w, ping
<james_w> directhex: hey
<directhex> james_w, can you forward me the monodevelop-debugger-gdb reject mail?  it's simply not on the ubuntu-archive archive
<james_w> the reject mail is just the autogenerated one
<james_w> I haven't received an explanation mail
<directhex> no clue who rejected? 
<james_w> nope
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> what does motu means ? 
<Pici> ! motu
<ubottu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe.  The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu.  See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<kaushal> Thanks Pici
<Pici> kaushal: surely
<kaushal> will tomboy 0.12 be backported to Ubuntu 8.04 Desktop ? 
<kaushal> ii  tomboy                            0.10.1-1                          desktop note taking program using Wiki style links
<directhex> only if someone does the work
<slytherin> directhex: xine uses it's own private version of libdvdread/libdvdnav and while option to compile against external libdvdread exists it is not recommended (as said by configure --help)
<directhex> slytherin, how lame
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser, ScottK: while kees is the person to talk regarding the kernel -security/-updates issue, I can say that systems without -updates enabled are entirely supported and anything in -security that depends on -updates is a bug
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, bril, thank you!  I've sent kees an email.  with any luck i'll still be awake when he gets on IRC (its about 5am where he is i think). 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nhandler> Hey bddebian ! 
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: fyi, in these cases it is entirely appropriate just to send to security@ubuntu.com
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: we'd all get it and then also be in the loop on it
<Kamping_Kaiser> bddebian, hey mate. 
<bddebian> Hello nhandler
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: don't feel you have to resend though-- just fyi
<slytherin> directhex: Do you think we should compile xine against the libdvdread/libdvdnav in repos?  Because a private copy means that we are not sure of it's status. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, ok.  I've been getting mixed messages, and been unable to find anything in an Ubuntu policy about it. 
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: sorry about that.  I can fix the policy.  Where were you looking? 
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: and where did you expect to find it? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, I was going through the ubuntu-policy package, but hadnt found it (iirc i was 10-15% of the way through). 
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: interesting-- I can take a look at it
<Kamping_Kaiser> none of my searches using google got me joy either, but its one of those situations where i'm not sure what i can search for to get the right results. 
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: I think going to wiki.ubuntu.com/Security and/or SecurityTeam should get you there
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: I say 'should' as in "I'm going to check to make sure it does"
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe.  ok, thanks.  I'll have a try too
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: if there is an appropriate place in ubuntu-policy for referencing it, then we can have a generic blurb and maybe reference the wiki
<directhex> slytherin, hm, i'd ask someone like siretart for opinion on that
<directhex> slytherin, FWIW i ignore recommendation & use distro cairo for moon
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: but the team will talk about improving the situation
<siretart> slytherin: have you verified the changes done to those libraries in xine? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, thanks.  I was specifically looking in the section regarding repository split up (main/universe/r/m) in ubuntu-policy, but if theres a better place I wouldnt object to reading further for it
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: I know I have certainly talked about that in several places-- and pretty sure I wrote about it in the wiki.  I think I also came across it the other day in ArchiveReorganisation
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks for your feedback.  We'll get that fixed up
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, tbh, even though I can roughly describe what I'm trying to get at, and ScottK explained it all, i'm still not sure i'd know what to search for to find the right answer. ( a personal problem, but perhaps relevant when trying to work out what to put on the page)
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: I fully agree that it is not widely known
<jdstrand> (which is why I've talked to a bunch of people about it :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<slytherin> siretart: not yet, but the last entry in upstream changelog about update of libdvdnav is from December 2004
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, if i can be a help re this, feel free to ping me. 
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: cool.  thanks :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> np!  thanks for /your/ help
<c_korn> does someone know when mok0 usually comes online? 
<ripps> Hey, I'm trying to run a PPA team repository that keeps in sync often with git.  The problem is that the program has about 20 plugins that need to be rebuilt whenever a change happens to the main program.  Is there some way to automate the rebuilding process for these plugins? 
<ripps> This isn't counting all the backports for the plugin, the archive contains
<Kamping_Kaiser> hopefully almost kees-gets-back-oclock. * tick tock tick* :)
<porthose> Would a kind MOTU from the release team please have a look at Bug #338408 thx;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338408 in coherence "FFe for python-coherence" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338408
<gaspa> dholbach: did you see my proposal for harvest-data? 
<dholbach> gaspa: no, sorry - seems I did not get that mail - will take a look at it in a sec
<gaspa> thanks. ;) 
<mbudde> I'm working on packaging pidgin-plugin-pack 2.5.1.  When I build it I get loads of dpkg-shlibdeps warnings (see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23781571/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.purple-plugin-pack_2.5.1-0ubuntu1~ppa2_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz ) Is there something wrong and can I do anything about it? 
<hyperair> mbudde: look into banshee packaging, and copy the debian/patches/99_ltmain-as-needed.patch
<hyperair> mbudde: then add LDFLAGS += -Wl,--as-needed into debian/rules
<hyperair> mbudde: if the patch doesn't apply due to some context changes in ltmain.sh, you may need to manually make those changes and refresh the patch
<mbudde> hyperair, ok, I'll take a look at it :) Thanks! 
<hyperair> mbudde: np
<wasabi> savvas: added to group
<wasabi> savvas: curios about your plans for gapti
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, btw, the KernelMaintenance page at the bottom has a section "main, proposed and security".  Might be worth linking from there to whatever doco gets put together about the -updates/-security bit. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> sneaky bastard.  :o
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, btw, the KernelMaintenance page at the bottom has a section "main, proposed and security".  Might be worth linking from there to whatever doco gets put together about the -updates/-security bit. ( sorry to the channel who have to see this twice)
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks.  I also found where I wrote it: SecurityTeam/FAQ
 * Kamping_Kaiser looks
<jdstrand> Kamping_Kaiser: it isn't really that exciting :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> jdstrand, how exciting can you make kernel packaging? ;) 
<jdstrand> heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> Now i have to go and look at the email i sent kees to check how much is still relevant *heh*
<RainCT> Is anyone here using LXDE? 
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: heh, it'll be a bit before I get through my email this morning.   :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> kees, i've waited to 3am, i'm sure i can wait another hour or two. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> now, where did i put that can of caffeine...
<Toadstool> RainCT: yep, I am
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: heh, ah, just got to it. 
 * RainCT has just installed it out and can only say.. "wow" :).  Login time is less than 1 second and it has panel and everything (unlike openbox) and actually looks great :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> kees, dont recall exactly what i wrote, but since then i'm told canonically that -security should stand alone, so anything about confusion can be ignored.  the bit about 'what happens now' remains. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> RainCT, o_0 1 second?  thats faster then e16 :o
<RainCT> Toadstool: .. but I've got some untranslated entries in the menu (like "Game" and "Network"), do you happen to know why that happens? 
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> well, it's on a new laptop here.. I'll try it on my sister's PC later (which has 256MB RAM)
<Toadstool> RainCT: uh, er, no, I am using LANG=en_US here
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: right, it is a bug that anything in -security would depend on -updates.   it sounds like fixing the compiler glitch needs to move forward. 
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: is this a problem for hardy, intrepid, or both? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> kees, i know its a problem in hardy (gNS bases off it), dont know about intrepid
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: okay
<Kamping_Kaiser> kees, is there a bug about the gcc shuffle i can sub to?  i'd like to keep a tab on it. 
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: let me ask the kernel team...
<Kamping_Kaiser> kees, ok.  i'm in there too, so i can hang around if theres no quick reply. 
<RainCT> uhm.. e16 looks interesting, but I don't like it on a first try (and it took ages to generate a menu :P)
<Kamping_Kaiser> e ftw. 
<RainCT> hm, perhaps I could even get used to it.. anyway, I'm off, cya
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mate
<Kamping_Kaiser> kees, I might head to sleep.  I'm still in -kernel, so if the bug report gets found i'll subscribe myself tomorrow.  Thanks for looking into it. 
<kees> Kamping_Kaiser: cool, g'night
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mate. 
<ripps> I'm trying to setup an autoppa system for maintaing a bunch of packages.  I have 20 plugins that I want to bundle into a single source package that I can upload and build into 20 seperate binary packages.  I've seen other packages do this, is there some information somewhere on how to do this? 
<eMerzh> I'm looking for a motu to review my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<savvas> wasabi: well not much, just planning to fix it upstream to be compatible with python 2.6 / 3.0 - we'll see how it goes heh :)
<savvas> be back later
<fabrice_sp> Hi.  gcompris appears as depending in python2.5 in Jaunty, but it build fine in a schroot.  Should I open a bug to bump the version to force the rebuild or it will be automatically rebuild at some point? 
<fabrice_sp> (it's for python2.6 transition)
<ScottK> It won't get automatically rebuilt. 
 * fabrice_sp will open a bug, then. 
<Ornedan> Depends line of libghc6-network-doc: Depends: ghc6-doc (>= 6.8.2), ghc6-doc (<< 6.8.2+), libghc6-parsec-doc (= 2.1.0.0-2)
<Ornedan> Is that as self-contradictory as it seems to be? 
<ScottK> It's not. 
<Ornedan> Ok.  So what does that << mean, then? 
<soren> Ornedan: The '<<' means what you expect.  The '+' probably doesn't. 
<Ornedan> 'k. Something does seem contradictory, though, since trying to install the package fails with
<Ornedan> Depends: ghc6-doc (>= 6.8.2) but it is not going to be installed Depends: ghc6-doc (< 6.8.2+) but it is not going to be installed
<ScottK> Ornedan: It means any version  6.8.2 - 6.8.2+ inclusive of 6.8.2, but exclusive of 6.8.2+. 
<directhex> i.e.  6.8.2-*
<directhex> 6.8.2-1 or 6.8.2-10ubuntu67~ppa3 matches that
<ScottK> Ornedan: What version of ghc6-doc do you have? 
<Ornedan> Hmm... Seems none.  Blargh and nvm.  I was trying to get haskell set up with haddock more recent than is available from the official repositories, seeing as the version there is 0.8 and latest release is 2.4.1
<ajmitch> ghc6 is another one of those special packages
<soren> "spethial"
<Ornedan> And the documentation syntax has changed somewhat since 0.8, so it fails on some 1/3 of recent libraries
<jdong> nxvl, other motu-SRU and similar folk, can someone weigh in on bug 341832? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341832 in mit-scheme "SRU: mit-scheme uninstallable on Intrpepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341832
<unit3> #ubuntu-dev pointed me here.  I'm doing some backporting with prevu, but I can't seem to pass it -j8 or similar to do some parallel building. 
<Ornedan> Someone did have haddock 2.4.1 & a more recent ghc packaged in their PPA, but that ghc was missing the critical standard libraries :P
<unit3> Is there a way to pass that through prevu to dpkg-buildpackage so I can take advantage of all my iceccd installs? 
<jdong> well that should be a DEB_MAKE_OPT in debian/rules. 
<jdong> and is not a prevu-specific problem -- it's a debian packaging problem
<jdong> err DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS rather. 
<unit3> ok, but generally, I can go "dpkg-buildpackage -j8 -b" and it does what I expect. 
<soren> #ubuntu-dev? 
<unit3> so how do I get prevu to call dpkg-buildpackage that way? 
<jdong> well, you really shouldn't. 
<jdong> prevu does not support such options, just like the Ubuntu build servers
<jdong> to do parallel builds you should really edit your rules file to do so correctly
<unit3> Ok, is there a way to get prevu to just grab and unpack a specific source release, so at least I don't have to manually hunt that down? 
<unit3> then I can edit the debian/rules file myself. 
<unit3> also... if you're not supposed to do that, then why does dpkg-buildpackage have a -j option? 
<unit3> it's confusing, to say the least. 
<jdong> well dpkg-buildpackage has a lot of liberties for in place builds that pbuilder/sbuild do not. 
<unit3> ok. 
<jdong> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html
<jdong> see 4.9.1 about parallelism
<maxb> jdong: Why shouldn't prevu/pbuilder do parallelism? 
<jdong> maxb: it shouldn't handle it sopecially as a -j flag IMO.  AFAIK setting DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS in your environment passes it in correctly
<unit3> That seems not particularly well thought out.  I mean, I see it there, but the package build system has no idea what level of parallelism is appropriate to my build environment, so why does hardcoding the number of jobs there make sense? 
<jdong> which is AFAIK how the buildd's do it. 
<unit3> oh, you can set the environment var? 
<unit3> that makes more sense. 
<unit3> and I'm fine with that. :) 
<jdong> unit3: no no, having your build system support DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS as per 4.9.1.  then setting environment :)
<maxb> unit3: note that dpkg-buildpackage -jX is only a shorthand for setting MAKEFLAGS and DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS envvars anyway. 
<jdong> correct
<unit3> jdong: ok, I'm confused again.  my build system is prevu.  Does it support the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS stuff? 
<jdong> unit3: no no, your buildsystem is the debian/rules file. 
<jdong> prevu/pbuilder is your build...er?  I guess
<jdong> whatever the correct terminology is. 
<unit3> erm... hrm... that terminology doesn't make sense to me.  but I see what you're saying now. 
<jdong> lol that could be my fault or the pre-existing terminology's fault ;-)
<unit3> yeah, it's existing terms, I just mapped them to something else in my head. ;) 
<jdong> maxb: I'm surprised MAKEFLAGS is being set by dpkg-buildpackage though... are the debian/rules targets really parallel-safe? 
<jdong> or am I confusing MAKEFLAGs with MAKEOPTS again? 
<jdong> stupid similarly named environment variables. 
<unit3> again, though, hardcoding number of jobs into debian/rules still seems badly planned.  it certainly means prevu is much less handy ootb in my environment, since I now have to manually unpack all the source packages and edit the debian-rules manually. 
<unit3> or, at least, that's how I'm reading this. 
<jdong> unit3: no no, your environment has DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="parallel=3" or something
<unit3> Oh!  I see. 
<maxb> unit3: prevu is a simplified wrapper around pbuilder.   pbuilder is a means to invoke dpkg-buildpackage in a minimal clean environment. 
<jdong> and debian/rules is responsible for parsing out parallel=3 into -j3
<unit3> and then debian/rules handles it. 
<unit3> if appropriate. 
<jdong> right
<unit3> Gotcha. 
<unit3> That makes so much more sense. :) 
<jdong> that's what the snippet of makefile under 4.9.1 is for :)
<unit3> Ahhh. 
<unit3> Ok, I'll try that.  Hopefully mysql builds in parallel, because it takes a really long time on my system without the build cluster to help. ;) 
<jdong> that it does :)
<jdong> kernels, too. 
<unit3> Awesome. :) 
<unit3> I've got about 6-8 faster cores I can use via icecc, so I'd like to. ;) 
<directhex> 8 cores? 
<unit3> directhex: on multiple machines, available via icecc.  hence the need for parallel job processing. 
<jdong> pfft don't provoke directhex
<jdong> he'll pull out his 9000000 core itaniums
 * directhex fluffles jdong 
<unit3> hahahaha
<directhex> jms@orac:~> grep -c ^processor /proc/cpuinfo
<directhex> 256
<jdong> what did I just tell you? 
<unit3> oh man.  I wish.  no, I'm using consumer grade amd64 stuff. 
<directhex> and yet gnome still runs like a dog ;)
<unit3> hahahaha
<unit3> switch out metacity for xfwm.  your system will thank me. ;) 
<directhex> and it's crap for x264 dvd ripping
<unit3> why?  too many optimizations for x64 in x264's codebase? 
<directhex> more or less
<unit3> 'cause otherwise I'd expect it to just scale through the roof, so that's too bad. 
<jdong> it doesn't scale to more than 4 or so threads well does it? 
<jdong> I always felt x264 did much better with one core twice as fast than two cores the same speed. 
<unit3> I thought they showed it scaling up to 8 at least on the new core i7 stuff? 
<jdong> it barely scales well to 4 on a core 2 quad I tested. 
<directhex> unit3, it scales well on i7 :)
<jdong> it was very much margin of diminishing returns for me...
<directhex> unit3, well... except it doesn't fill the hyperthreads, but that's not news
<directhex> HT in "sucks" shocker
<unit3> yeah. 
<unit3> But I thought part of the benchmarks I saw indicated that that just showed that i7 scales better than core 2 does in general, and that x264 will scale well if the arch lets it. 
<directhex> nothing scales like itanic
<jdong> unit3: does it really scale better than having one or two cores under the +300MHz IDA boost? 
<unit3> directhex: yeah?  I'd be curious to see how something like luxrender scales on it, then...
<unit3> jdong: dunno, tracking down the benchmarks I saw before to try and determine that, since I don't remember well enough. 
<directhex> most people don't want scalability, they want throughput. 
<directhex> where clocks can often win
 * jdong agrees
<unit3> true. 
<unit3> but only at the bottom end. 
<unit3> of course, the bottom end is huuuuge now. ;) 
<jdong> I still feel if you're talking your average person doing X264 encodes, 2 faster cores is better than 4 not-as-fast ones. 
<unit3> computing: now with more junk in the trunk! 
<jdong> scalability is a different topic. 
<jdong> doesn't x264 still slice the image in some arrangement to thread? 
<unit3> jdong: no, I seem to recall it was more comprehensive than that, and tried to look at thread count and stuff. 
<jdong> i.e. somewhat reduced PSNR? 
<directhex> jdong, don't forget i7 is faster per clock than anything else
<unit3> true too. 
<jdong> absolutely is. 
<directhex> trust me :)
<unit3> I think I was thinking of these two: http://arstechnica.com/hardware/reviews/2008/11/nehalem-launch-review.ars/9 http://arstechnica.com/hardware/reviews/2008/11/nehalem-launch-review.ars/6
<directhex> directhex@desire:~$ grep name /proc/cpuinfo | tail -1
<directhex> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         920  @ 2.67GHz
<unit3> Which shows i7 scaling well with more threads in another test. 
<unit3> but also a little more oomph using 8 threads with HT than 4 threads and no HT. 
<unit3> So inconclusive I guess. 
<unit3> You'd want to get a system with 2x4core nehelem xeons or something and bench with threads from 4-16
<unit3> Meh.  Once a mobo+cpu combo is < $300 I'll upgrade my desktop to i7, but I imagine that won't be for a while. 
<jdong> unit3: you're thinking the core i5. 
<unit3> jdong: huh?  I thought i7 was just branding for the desktop version of nehelem? 
<jdong> unit3: the core i5 is an upcoming consumerization of the nehalem
<jdong> should bring prices way down into the current core 2 ranges
<jdong> unfortunately you're not gonna get your nerdcore 24xSLI whatnot gaming leet card slots
<jdong> but you can build yourself a nehalem architecture machine without selling a kidney
<directhex> only dual-channel ram though :'(
<directhex> laaaaame! 
<unit3> that's fine. 
<jdong> *cough* :)
<unit3> I never even max out my RAM on my home desktop. 
<directhex> Mem:          5974       5938         35          0         25       5081
<unit3> and DDR3's still expensive. 
<unit3> erm RAM bandwidth that is, I totally max out RAM usage. ;) 
<unit3> yeah, looks like i5 is what I'll be after for home, and then the Xeon i7 stuff for work once it's a little cheaper. 
<jdong> unit3: that's how I figure. 
<jdong> I would like to be able to justify to myself building a xeon mac pro like workstation
<jdong> but umm... never worked out. 
<unit3> yeah, me too, but not in this recession.  contract work to buy toys is pretty hard to come by right now.  :P
<jdong> you know I have the money, just don't feel THAT is what I should dump it on. 
<jdong> hwoever, IMO in this economy rainy day bank money is a bad thing to keep. 
<jdong> just watching it lose its value is depressing. 
<unit3> heheh
<geser> the question is what will lose value faster: your desktop or your bank money
<unit3> I guess it depends on where you're keeping it. 
<unit3> yeah, computers generally depreciate the fastest. 
<e-jat> Successfully uploaded packages. 
<e-jat> Not running dinstall. 
<e-jat> anyone can help me? 
<jpds> e-jat: That sounds fine, are you loading to revu? 
<e-jat> my ppa
<e-jat> jpds: uploaded to revu
<jpds> e-jat: What exactly was your problem? 
<e-jat> not running dinstall .. sorry.. its my 1st package ..
<jpds> That's not a problem, you can ignore that message. :) 
<e-jat> jpds: owh ok .. thanks ..
<e-jat> hoping/waiting that someone will comment about it .. so i can learn from my mistake ..
<hyperair> e-jat: i've received that message for every upload i've made, and i still haven't figured out what it means ;)
<e-jat> owh ..
<hyperair> jpds: do you know what it means?  =\
<hyperair> i mean what's dinstall for? 
<broonie> When uploading to Debian it used to be possible to run dinstall, the tool that processed uploads, by hand to check that the package was acceptable to dinstall. 
<broonie> So dput has the ability to do that automatically when uploading via SSH. 
<hyperair> i see
<unit3> heh, my backport of mysql failed yesterday, and now I see in the build that the test which failed is marked as "[ disabled ]  randomly fails on Ubuntu amd64 buildds". 
<unit3> Good to know. :) 
<blizzkid> lo all.  Screen resolution on my EEE900 dropped to 800 by 600 after today's upgrade, and no option of 1024 by 600.  Any idea how I can get it back? 
<blizzkid> noone any idea about the resolution? 
<ajmitch> ask in #ubuntu, or #ubuntu+1 if you're using jaunty
<blizzkid> ajmitch: it's jaunty, it was fine until todays upgrade
<unit3> Heh... went to all this work backporting the jaunty mysql-server-5.1 packages to hardy, and they don't include the mysql-cluster / ndb stuff. 
<unit3> Can someone clue me in what's going on with 5.1 in Ubuntu, since packages says MOTU is maintaining that one? 
<savvas> gfax: Depends: libgnomeprint2.2-0 (< 2.18.6) but 2.18.6-1 is to be installed. 
<savvas> is anyone working on this? 
<ScottK> unit3: #ubuntu-server is a better channel to ask mysql stuff. 
<unit3> oh ok.  will do. 
<unit3> Just looked here first since it had MOTU stamped on it. ;) 
<ScottK> Reasonable enough. 
<Laney> savvas: does it just need a rebuild? 
<savvas> Laney: I'm checking it right now :)
<savvas> Laney: should I file a bug?  I'm one button away :P
<Laney> find out! 
<savvas> ok :)
<savvas> libgnomeprint2.2-0 (>= ${misc:libgnomeprint-upversion}), libgnomeprint2.2-0 (<< ${misc:libgnomeprint-next-upversion})
<savvas> Laney: yes, I think it does, should I make a quick ppa test build? 
<Laney> why ppa? 
<Laney> don't you have pbuilder? 
<savvas> I do but.. the logs include more info
<savvas> ok, pbuilder it is :)
<savvas> Laney: works on amd64! :)  rebuilt and runs fine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130391/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/130393/
<Laney> cool
<Laney> I'll upload a rebuild
<savvas> thanks
<Laney> done, thanks for investigating
<bcurtiswx> hi all, i followed dholbachs youtube packaging tutorials and got to the debuild stage but it failed... since this is my first time building a package, would someone mind helping me troubleshoot the errors? 
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: Could you pastebin the output? 
<savvas> friday the 13th again hehe :p
<nhandler> savvas: I still have a few more hours ;)
<Laney> I donated my 13th pint of blood yesterday....
<bcurtiswx> hi all, sorry i got disconnected, did anyone reply to my debuild debugging request
<savvas> nhandler: the funny thing is that it was friday the 13th last month too :)
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: I did.  Could you pastebin the output? 
<nhandler> savvas: I noticed that.  We also have Pi Day coming up
<bcurtiswx> nhandler: instead of in the channel, may i PM you? 
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: That is fine.  But please pastebin the output instead of sending it all in /msg's
<maxb> Though other people may also try to help if you keep things in the channel. 
<nhandler> That is true
<nhandler> It also allows other users to learn from the problem
<bcurtiswx> ok, i will keep in chan.. sorry if this is a dumb ?,  but what is pastebin
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-13
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: paste.ubuntu.com
<bcurtiswx> ok, brb
<nhandler> It is just a site to upload large ammounts of text
<bcurtiswx> oh firefox, why must you freeze
<ScottK> That's a bit of a redundant question. 
<maxb> At least you're not IRCing in Chatzilla :-)
 * nhandler is using mibbit in Firefox ;)
<bcurtiswx> lol
<bcurtiswx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/130404/
<bcurtiswx> finally
<bcurtiswx> lol
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: Why are you packaging it from scratch?  We already have octave in the repositories.  Why not just do an upgrade? 
<bcurtiswx> nhandler: is more of a learning process for me
<bcurtiswx> nhandler: octave was the first tar.gz file that came to mind
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: If you really want to get it to work, you can look at the octave package in the repositories.  Otherwise, I would suggest you choose a simpler package as a "learning process"
<nhandler> octave isn't the best to begin with
<bcurtiswx> nhandler: ok.   any recommendations? 
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: Have you followed the guides to package 'hello' already? 
<bcurtiswx> nope
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: I would start there.  There are some guides on the wiki, do you want a link or two? 
<directhex> james_w, so.  what do you think is the right course of action for monodevelop-debugger-gdb? 
<james_w> directhex: now the alpha is out you can poke the archive admins to ask who rejected it
<bcurtiswx> nhandler: sure
<directhex> james_w, which day of the week was it rejected? 
<james_w> can't remember
<james_w> doesn't help that I'm upside down right now
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn
<StevenK> That must make it hard to type
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<directhex> StevenK, that or he's in australia for some reason
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<StevenK> I'm in Australia, and I'm not upside down ...
<nhandler> bcurtiswx: Those should help get you started.  If you need more, just ask ;)
<directhex> yes you are!  australia is upside-down by definition! 
<ajmitch> directhex: lies
<bcurtiswx> nhandler: ty
<cody-somerville> nhandler, how is gnomescan going? 
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I'm looking it over again now. 
<cody-somerville> nhandler, thanks.  I think its pretty important to get that done for jaunty.  Let me know if you need me to assist. 
<nhandler> cody-somerville: I'll add my comment sometime tonight
<tacone> ot: anyone can tell me how to mark a launchpad bug as duplicate ? 
<tacone> nevermind, found -.-
<savvas> do we bump the standards-version for non-debian packages? 
<nhandler> savvas: If you are making other changes to the package, yes. 
<savvas> yes nhandler :) gpixpod I'm about to send a patch for python transition
<nhandler> savvas: Be sure to make sure that it actually complies with that version of debian-policy.  You can also verify that it is lintian clean. 
<savvas> ok thanks nhandler :)
<savvas> Now running lintian...
<savvas> Finished running lintian. 
<savvas> woohoo!  :P
<fmarier> hi folks, I was wondering if I should be providing any more details here given that the sync I'm proposing is pretty much just a bugfix one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/email-reminder/+bug/342095
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 342095 in email-reminder "Please sync email-reminder 0.7.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [ Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ScottK> fmarier: The problem is that for a sync, confirmed == approved, so odds are sponsors weren't looking at it.   I set it to new. 
<fmarier> ScottK: thanks for letting me know, I didn't know about that...
<ajmitch> fmarier: looks like a rather critical update, with ruining marriages & all
<superm1> siretart, have you talked with ffmpeg upstream about their commitment to a release schedule?   If they can get some sort of regular cadence going, we can try to get more pressure on these projects to move to using a system library of ffmpeg rather than duplicating the code in their trees (eg VLC, mplayer, xine, mythtv, etc)
<fmarier> ajmitch: yeah, I forgot to change the importance while I was filing the bug :(
<dtchen> superm1: such an approach has been strongly suggested for several years
<dtchen> superm1: leverage corporate pressure would probably make them more amenable
<dtchen> leveraging*
<superm1> dtchen, yeah, unfortunately a lot of these projects get caught up in "their way of doing things", but definitely seeing a track record develop for the ffmpeg guys will make it easier to apply said pressure
<superm1> my own reasoning is I want to see all of these great players leave multiverse and still be functional with ffmpeg-debian or an ffmpeg-multiverse - whatever the user chooses to install
<Amaranth> superm1: still need that mplayer release
<superm1> Amaranth, ehm?  bug #? 
<Amaranth> superm1: Aren't they the same guys? 
<Amaranth> They haven't released mplayer in years either
<Amaranth> after an mplayer release the only things missing will be duke nukem forever and working audio on linux
 * Amaranth hides from dtchen
<superm1> Amaranth, you mean a duke nukem forever port to linux that works with pulseaudio by default :P
<Amaranth> and nouveau
<superm1> Amaranth, oh but there was an RC like a year ago for mplayer.  that's some kind of release at least.   it's better than mplayer-1.0~$(random snapshot)
<Amaranth> superm1: I thought the last RC was in 2005
<superm1> Amaranth, have i been working with ubuntu long enough now that my time scale is off by that much?  geez...
<Amaranth> superm1: ah, 2007
<superm1> Amaranth, no i'm not crazy.   2007-10-07 1.0-rc2
<superm1> phew
<Amaranth> that wasn't last year :P
<superm1> oh yeah, it's 2009.  psh
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> "2009?  When did that happen?" 
<fabrice_sp> Hi.  How can I know at what time is the motu council for mi?  In http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar, it's at 6H GMT (so 7H for mi) but in the wiki, it's at 7H UTC (8h for mi)
<fabrice_sp> (and I woke up earlier, believing it was at 6h for mi :-/ )
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Morning dholbach ;-)
<dholbach> hey fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, it's also 6:18 for you, right?  so at what time is the Motu council meeting?  I've not been able to find any consistent information on that
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting - no? :) 
<fabrice_sp> yes: it's 7H UTC, but in  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar, it's  at 6H GMT :-/  And I'm supposed to be at UTC/GMT+1
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: oh yes, sorry - seems that Google Calendar got confused when the US moved to DST
<fabrice_sp> ok :-)
<rgreening> dholbach: hey
<dholbach> hiya rgreening :)
<rgreening> is the meeting in 30 min ? 
<fabrice_sp> or in 1h30? ;-) 
<dholbach> 7 UTC - let's stick to UTC times wherever we have them
<rgreening> its 3AM here.. was hoping to get some sleep before work :)
<fabrice_sp> ouch! 
<rgreening> hehe
<rgreening> hey NCommander
<NCommander> hey rgreening! 
<fmarier> dholbach: thanks for the ACK
<dholbach> fmarier: no worries :)
<dholbach> fmarier: thanks for letting us know about it! 
<dholbach> can somebody of the motu-release team check out bug 340008 please? :) 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340008 in ubuntu "Please sync python-django-lint (0.7-1) from Sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340008
<siretart> morning folks! 
<fabrice_sp> g'morning siretart
<siretart> superm1: this release is more an experiment, a review about that is pending. 
<siretart> superm1: AFAIUI Diego prefers the next release in 3 or 6 months.  and a time based release model
<siretart> superm1: as for other projects, at least vlc and xine already use the system ffmpeg.  No idea what mythtv does, but for mplayer that's complicated, as mplayer uses too many libavutil internals and therefore requires that the system ffmpeg matches the internal copy
<siretart> superm1: diego is working on that, however
<siretart> hey fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> o/
<superm1> siretart, ah didnt realize that vlc and xine are already using system ffmpeg. 
<superm1> siretart, i'll have a pretty good argument finally for mythtv upstream then provided we really do see releases every 3 or 6 months for ffmpeg
<superm1> siretart, which if they can sever that tie, can finally get mythtv in debian :)
<siretart> superm1: do they use lots of ffmpeg interals, or do they restrict themselves to the external API? 
<superm1> siretart, they support some demuxers that aren't actually in ffmpeg entirely, but otherwise i want to say for the most part they are using the external API
<superm1> i'm going to have a chat with the guy who does the ffmpeg merges into mythtv on a regular basis to get a more clear understanding
<siretart> superm1: 2 things to check: they include only headers that are installed in /usr/include/libav* and they don't use any ff_* symbols but only av_* ones. 
<siretart> superm1: if yes, then you can (and probably should) patch the build system to use the system ffmpeg
<siretart> if no, hit upstream with a stick (or better)
<siretart> exception from that rule: it does really funny stuff like gst-ffmpeg (which I still haven't really understand yet)
<superm1> siretart, well until they can at least get the extra demuxers into upstream ffmpeg, i suspect that using a system ffmpeg will not turn out well.   i'll poke around though for those 2 things you indicated to get a better idea
<siretart> oh, wait, they've added demuxers to libavformat?! 
<superm1> i'm not sure where the demuxers are living, let me see what the quote i just read about it was
<superm1> "<iamlindoro> superm1, My understanding (and a little bit of experience in hacking on it) is that the Program Stream and Transport Stream demuxers differ substantially from ffmpeg's own at this point, making using it as an outside lib very very hard"
<siretart> that's.. unusual.  if that's right, that stuff should definitly go upstream
<superm1> yeah that's what i was saying to him, but i'm waiting to hear from the guy normally doing ffmpeg merges to  confirm
<siretart> perhaps it might make sense from them to not use ffmpeg directly but use libxine as abstraction.  but that might be even more work
<NCommander> siretart, and superm1, to add more fun w/ ffmpeg, upstream actually did a stable release :-)
<siretart> NCommander: tell news
<NCommander> siretart, you didn't see the news? 
<siretart> NCommander: see bug #340303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340303 in ffmpeg-debian "FFE: ffmpeg 0.5" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340303
<NCommander> ah
<siretart> ;)
<NCommander> siretart, so how did hell freeze over? ( what made ffmpeg's devs do a stable release?) 
<siretart> that's more an experiment than a real stable release. 
<siretart> read: they don't really support it, and its already outdated
<NCommander> siretart, its two days old ...
<siretart> the release is from 03/03/2009
<siretart> that's over a week
<siretart> libswscale can now be compiled as lgpl
<siretart> in trunk (not in 0.5 release)
<NCommander> o_o;
<NCommander> things move fast ...
<siretart> that's the problem with ffmpeg releases
<siretart> trunk moves that fast (since years) that releases actually don't really make sense
<NCommander> siretart, I get it, but it makes downstreams lives harder
<siretart> diego decided to make time based snapshot releases.  let's see if and how the next one will work out
<siretart> NCommander: you now understand why mplayer svn has svn:externals to the ffmpeg svn (and vice-versa, to make the matter more spicy)? 
<siretart> did I mention at some point that I'd really appreciate help on packaging the two beasts? ;-) 
<NCommander> siretart, add to the legal status of ffmpeg, and its an entire mountian of fun. 
<siretart> the legal status is: LGPL, with some (optional) GPL bits
<NCommander> siretart, w.r.t.  to patents
<NCommander> siretart, I'm packaging cross-compilers with newlib being built in a single pass ;-).  I know hellish packages. 
<siretart> superm1: you did most of the works in ubuntus mplayer, right? 
<siretart> superm1: I've just uploaded http://wiki.tauware.de/~siretart/upload-queue/mplayer_1.0~rc2%2bsvn20090303-1.dsc to debian/unstable (possibly *very* close to the rc3 release)
<siretart> superm1: perhaps we can (and should) merge that package to ubuntu as well, checkout the branch on git.debian.org
<superm1> siretart, i did a lot of work on it at some point i recall
<superm1> siretart, i'm not sure who has kept up with it as of late though
<superm1> siretart, git.debian.org?  I thought that we were keeping it in bzr in ubuntu though. 
<superm1> siretart, is there a reason that it cant just be synced from unstable?   i'm assuming it's something related to extra build-depends that we add? 
<siretart> superm1: 2 reasons: ubuntu started an epoch war, and the debian package does not feature mencoder
<siretart> the latter can be fixed by using the 'master.unstripped' branch (as opposed the 'master' branch)
<siretart> re git, well pkg-multimedia (the debian multimedia team) settled on using git
<superm1> siretart, <shrug> i see
<siretart> I'd really appreciate more ubuntu help in pkg-multimedia *hint* *wave*.. we already have there a bounch of ubuntu branches
<superm1> i wish i had more time to contribute up that way :( maybe later this year
<superm1> jdong, do you want to maybe try to help spearhead pulling in another mplayer snapshot before we close up jaunty?   You like crack dontcha? 
<iulian> dholbach: Commented. 
<dholbach> iulian: thanks a bunch
<iulian> dholbach: Np. 
<AnAnt> Hello, I am maintaining sl-modem package.  Regarding bug 518694, the co-maintainer suggested that we blacklist slamr, slusb, intel-8x0m & snd_via82xx_modem modules so that they don't get loaded too early during, then the init script will modprobe slamr (or slusb) , is that an acceptable solution ? 
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 518694 could not be found
<AnAnt> debian bug 518694
<ubottu> Debian bug 518694 in sl-modem-source "sl-modem-source: No RING messages sent when the phone is ringing" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/518694
<AnAnt> ubottu: ;)
<soren> AnAnt: Why does the time at which they're loaded matter? 
<AnAnt> soren: well, there's what he said in README.Debian http://pastebin.com/m5ee2d615
<soren> AnAnt: Sounds like something that should really be fixed in the kernel. 
<soren> AnAnt: Failing that, could sl-modem's init script perhaps try rmmod/modprobing the modules?  That saves us from having to blacklist stuff. 
<AnAnt> soren: ok, will try that
<AnAnt> ok, another question, I want to create devices for slamr & slusb in postinst, but lintian says I should use MAKEDEV instead of mknod
<AnAnt> when I run MAKEDEV slamr, it says that it doesn't know how to create devices for slamr
<AnAnt> should I first modprobe slamr before attempting MAKEDEV ? 
<AnAnt> or what ? 
<geser> AnAnt: you probably need to get MAKEDEV patched for it
<geser> do you need "static" devices?  isn't udev created devices enough? 
<AnAnt> geser: you suggest that I add udev rules to create those devices ? 
<savvas> the manuals and documentation should be in Recommends or Suggests? 
<geser> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> geser: dunno how to do this
<geser> AnAnt: look at the existing rules.d files
<AnAnt> geser: like this => KERNEL=="slamr", NAME="%k", GROUP="dialout", MODE="0660" ? 
<geser> AnAnt: I've to look up the syntax myself, but yes, something like that
<AnAnt> so, KERNEL= is for loaded module name ? 
<soren> AnAnt: No, it's for the name the kernel assigns the device. 
<AnAnt> so, I should use DRIVERS= instead ? 
<soren> Umm.. Why? 
<slytherin> hi, anyone having trouble with pull-debian-source in jaunty latest?  It asks me to install devscripts which I alreasy have installed. 
<AnAnt> umm, nevermind, I think it should be KERNEL="slamr[0-9]"
<AnAnt> KERNEL="slamr[0-9]*" rather
<iulian> slytherin: You might want to talk to nhandler.   He wrote that. 
<Toadstool> good morning here
<dholbach> Toadstool: that was bound to happen on a Friday 13th :-)
<Toadstool> dholbach: hehe :)
<Toadstool> today is not my lucky day, I guess, I should have stayed in bed
<savvas> when I subscribe u-u-s, should I change the "In progress" status to confirmed or new?  or just leave it as it is? 
<iulian> savvas: Confirmed is better. 
<savvas> iulian: ok, I'll browse through the old ones and set them back to confirmed - thanks :)
<savvas> I mean.. the old ones I have assigned on myself heh
<iulian> You're welcome. 
<iulian> Later. 
<savvas> hot patch right from the oven :P bug 342151 for python transition
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342151 in urwid "Depends: python (< 2.6) but 2.6.1-0ubuntu3 is to be installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342151
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<_ruben> i must be blind, but i cant seem to find the variable that i can use in debian/rules which holds the version of the package its building
<slytherin> _ruben: you need upstream version or complete version (including debian/ubuntu revision)? 
<slytherin> _ruben: DEB_UPSTREAM_VERSION should work.  I am not sure as I have only used it in CDBS packaging. 
<_ruben> slytherin: that var doesnt seem to be avail for non-cdbs
<slytherin> _ruben: it is actually easy to retrieve version form changelog.  you need some head/cut magic.  you should find it in many existing packages
<_ruben> just found this is a mail archive: dpkg-parsechangelog  | grep ^Version: | cut -f 2 -d \  | cut -f 1 -d -
<savvas> if the version is 0.36-5build1, for an ubuntu change I should use 0.36-5build1ubuntu1, right? :) 
<soren> Probably just 0.36-5ubuntu1. 
<slytherin> savvas: just ubuntu1
 * slytherin wonders if this will make into jaunty - http://www.hadess.net/2009/03/our-new-volume-feature.html
<directhex> i could have done with that last week
<ripps> I'm trying to build multiple packages from a single source by using the debian/package_name.install method, but the build process fails at the very end, can someone please help me figure this out. 
<slytherin> ripps: sure, if you tell us what the error is
<maxb> ripps: If you pastebin the build log, then yes
<ripps> maxb: where does pbuilder store it's build logs? 
<maxb> uhm.  Just copy/paste it from your terminal
<slytherin> ripps: it doesn't by default, you have to use option '--logfile filename'
<ripps> sigh, I guess I'll have to retry the build.  It's a chore though, because it tends to segfault half way through sometimes. 
<maxb> nice build :-)
<ripps> maxb, slytherin: can just give you a tarball with the source package w/ debian directory.  My computer is being a jerk and randomly failing. 
<ripps> maxb, slytherin: http://depositfiles.com/files/7gu4sr9qo
<maxb> ripps: Sorry, I don't have time to get a package building right now, you'll need to manage a buildlog yourself. 
<ripps> maxb: New version of gcc fixed my segfault issue, logfile: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130665/
<ripps> It's very long, and it seems to run ./configure on all 20 plugins twice. 
<maxb> ripps: At the bottom, you can see it runs "
<maxb> dh_install -pgmpc-alarm
<maxb> and that fails to find a file
<maxb> So, you need to investigate why that file does not exist
<ripps> maxb: Yeah, how do I do that?  Everything seems to be working right. 
<maxb> Well, the first thing to look for is: Did a file of that name get built at all?  Did it get installed in a different directory? 
<ripps> libtool: install: /usr/bin/install -c .libs/alarmplugin.lai /tmp/buildd/gmpc-plugins-0.18.0/debian/tmp//usr/local/lib/gmpc/plugins//alarmplugin.la
<maxb> No package should be installing into /usr/local
<ripps> ?  it installed it in /usr/local/
<ripps> Hmm....
<ripps> let me edit the autogen.sh
<joaopinto> erm, you shouldnt edit autogen.sh
<joaopinto> you should use the --prefix parameter on configure
<ripps> This autogen.sh is actually a bash script that clones a bunch of programs from git and runs autogen.sh on them individually. 
<ripps> Don't blame me, I didn't write it. 
<ripps> I'm only using this script because I don't want to have to manually update 20 individual plugins (w/ backports) on biweekly basis. 
<ripps> This way, I can update all the plugins the team ppa with a single source package. 
<maxb> That still doesn't explain why you'd be editing autogen.sh for this problem? 
<ripps> maxb: because I don't think the autogen.sh being passed throught he bash script is adding --prefix=/usr. 
<maxb> autogen.sh is the wrong time to be doing this.  It should happen at configure time
<maxb> Oh, but gmpc-alarm's autogen.sh doesn't respect NOCONFIGURE.  Blech
<ripps> I'm going to have to continue this later, I need to go to bed. 
<DBO> does anyone know how to reach Laney by email? 
<jpds> He's... here? 
<jpds> and lp.net/~laney has email details. 
<DBO> thank you
<DBO> hes away =P
<savvas> good evening :)
<slytherin> savvas: good evening. :-) 
<joaopinto> hi
<joaopinto> dpkg-buildpackage: set LDFLAGS to default value: -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions
<joaopinto> is there a way to force dpkg-buildpackage to not set LDFLAGS ? 
<slytherin> joaopinto: dpkg-buildpackage does not set them.  check your debian/rules
<joaopinto> slytherin, include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<slytherin> joaopinto: what about this line? 
<joaopinto> rewording, to tell CDBS not to touch LDFLAGS :P
<joaopinto> slytherin, that line alone causes the LDFLAGS to be set
<slytherin> joaopinto: I guess you will have to explicitely unset then in debian/rules
<joaopinto> slytherin, already tried that, it introduces another problem, because it overrides LFLAGS during the "make" rule
<joaopinto> erm LDFLAGs
<slytherin> so what are you exactly trying to do? 
<joaopinto> I am building a package for an application, using cdbs, the application must not be compiled with "-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions"
<joaopinto> it provides a plugin component, such component does set LDFLAGS on it's make rules, however unseting LDFLAGS on debian/riles will override the plugin build phase also
<joaopinto> slytherin, I am reading dpkg-buildpackage man page, it seems those are really defaults from it
<slytherin> joaopinto: I don't think I am qualified enough to answer that question. 
<c_korn> does someone know when mok0 usually comes online? 
<joaopinto> well, it may be related to bug 138981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 138981 in cdbs "makefile.mk overwrites LDFLAGS defined in Makefile" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/138981
<slytherin> c_korn: I believe he is there in #ubuntu+1
<c_korn> slytherin: no, he isn't.  didn't see him online for some time.  it is just about uploading sivp to the jaunty queue.  it has been acked. 
<slytherin> c_korn: is it in universe? 
<joaopinto> hum, this is really a dpkg-buildpackage problem :\
<slytherin> c_korn: if uploading is the only thing to be done, I can do that, tell me bug number. 
<c_korn> slytherin: the package to be uploaded is here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/sivp bug 334362
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334362 in sivp "FeatureFreezeException: Please update sivp 0.5.0 from REVU" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334362
<slytherin> c_korn: I will have to update my chroot. :-(  If it is not uploaded within next 24 hours, I will do it. 
<c_korn> slytherin: thanks
<rgreening> hey nixternal
<fabrice_sp> rgreening, congrats :-)
<rgreening> ty fabrice_sp.  gratz to you too :)
<fabrice_sp> thanks ;-) And sorry to rush  that way this morning
<fabrice_sp> I really had to leave
<rgreening> fabrice_sp: yeah.  I really had to sleep :)
<rgreening> I forgot about DST. 
<fabrice_sp> lol
<rgreening> thought it was for 3:30 localtime, but it was 4:30.  I could have went to sleep and got up early.. oops :P
<rgreening> oh well, at least I crawled into bed at 5 and slept for a few hours
<fabrice_sp> that's what I did (wake up early), but it wasn't that early :-D
<rgreening> im a zombie now though. 
<fabrice_sp> only few minutes?! 
<fabrice_sp> yeah: I can understand :-)
<rgreening> tonight, lots of sleep
<rgreening> hmm... quassel crash... hehe
<fabrice_sp> rgreening, you should be using gnome >:-)
<rgreening> hehe
<fabrice_sp> already sponsored your first package? 
<rgreening> I actually just installed ubuntustudio on my other laptop.  it runs gnome
<rgreening> not yet.  I think I'll be waiting until I have sleep behind me
<rgreening> clear head and all required to sponsor. 
<fabrice_sp> ohh: good :-) I have to install it in a vm, to check the software they ship
<rgreening> :P
<fabrice_sp> sounds reasonable, yes :-)
<rgreening> ubuntustudio seems pretty nice. 
<rgreening> ScottK-desktop: ty for everything btw
 * fabrice_sp is downloading the iso of ubuntustudio
<cjwatson> joaopinto: have you tried 'unexport LDFLAGS' at the top of debian/rules?  that's the usual workaround for packages that have a problem with -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions, and is done elsewhere
<fabrice_sp> when changing a version to add build1, do we have to update the maintainer field to Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>? 
<ScottK> rgreening: YW. 
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: No. 
<rgreening> ScottK: :)
<fabrice_sp> thanks ScottK
<fabrice_sp> just wanted to confirm
<rgreening> o/ apachelogger
<apachelogger> \o rgreening
<joaopinto> cjwatson, I did, it didn't work, so I used LDFLAGS=""
<joaopinto> which works for the binary, but breaks the plugin
<DBO> can anyone help me update our PPA? 
<DBO> I am not a packager or anything
<DBO> but our packager guy is away for a week
<DBO> and we need to ship
<dtchen> ppa url and new source url? 
<DBO> https://launchpad.net/~do-core/+archive/ppa
<DBO> http://edge.launchpad.net/do/0.8/0.8.1/+download/gnome-do-0.8.1.tar.gz
<DBO> and
<DBO> http://edge.launchpad.net/do-plugins/0.8/0.8.1/+download/gnome-do-plugins-0.8.1.tar.gz
<dtchen> DBO: i presume 9.04 is highest priority, but if you would delineate a decreasing priority, that would be helpful for scheduling
<DBO> 8.10 vs 9.04 equal priority
<DBO> most of our users are still on 8.10
<dtchen> DBO: also, is 0.8.1 slated *only* for your ppa for 9.04, or is there a FeatureFreezeException planned? 
<DBO> there is a FFE in the works
<DBO> 0.8.1 fixes some rather... annoying bugs
<DBO> things like stealing your keyboard in rare situations kind of bugs
<DBO> (our bad, we are rank amatures after all)
<goshawk> can it be possible that a library is in debian and it's not in ubuntu? 
<RainCT> goshawk: yes
<goshawk> well.  how do i port it? :) 
<goshawk> the library is libconfig++6
<RainCT> goshawk: that's the case if either it's new and has entered Debian after DebianImportFreeze (and nobody requested a sync) or if it was removed from Ubuntu for some reason
<goshawk> RainCT: i think it's the first one, cuz it's only in sid and testing right now
<goshawk> should i file a bug requesting a sync? 
<RainCT> goshawk: Probably not.  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libconfig
<RainCT> it was removed from Ubuntu
<goshawk> it's not the same
<goshawk> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libconfig&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<goshawk> RainCT: there is a libconfig0 (the one you are speaking)
<goshawk> RainCT: and a libconfig++6
<goshawk> libconfig0 version 0.1.5
<goshawk> the same version of the launchpad link
<goshawk> and libconfig++6 version 1.3.1
<RainCT> ehm right
<goshawk> ;)
<goshawk> am i learning good? :) 
<goshawk> hihi
 * RainCT blames whoever had the idea to give both packages the same name :P
<porthose> goshawk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
 * goshawk jumps to FreezeExceptionProcess
<RainCT> :)
<goshawk> FreezeExceptionProcess says me to include the package, but should i include the orig.tar.gz, the diff.gz the .dsc, the .changes or all?  If i should include all, but launchpad makes me upload only one, can i put them in a tar.gz packagE? 
<Laney> goshawk: debdiff is fine
<Laney> or diff.gz for new upstream
<goshawk> it's a new package, so diff.gz
<Laney> completely new package? 
<goshawk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/342530
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 342530 in ubuntu "libconfig++6 in debian testing and sid and not in ubuntu jaunty" [Undecided,New]
<goshawk> well it's new for ubuntu
<goshawk> but not for debian
<cjwatson> goshawk: Launchpad may only let you use one attachment at a time, but there's nothing to stop you uploading several attachments in succession
<cjwatson> although for a Debian package I'd say that a debdiff against the Debian package would be perfectly fine, if indeed there is any debdiff
<cjwatson> (I don't know the MOTU policies on this, this is just what I'd want if I were sponsoring it)
<cjwatson> if there's no difference versus Debian I see no reason to bother including the package at all, personally
<goshawk> ok uploading a debdiff too and pointing to the debian .dsc as a comment
<cjwatson> all that does is create extra work for somebody who has to check that it is the same
<Laney> give a link to the debian dsc
<cjwatson> goshawk: what changes were necessary for Ubuntu? 
<Laney> I guess that would be ok
<goshawk> cjwatson: just the changelog that fixes the LP bug, and the Maintainer field
<goshawk> nothing more
<goshawk> i did both
<cjwatson> goshawk: no, don't do that
<cjwatson> if that's all, we should just sync the Debian package
<cjwatson> there is no need to create a delta for just that
<goshawk> cjwatson: ok so i'm adding a comment saying to just sync with debian one :)
<cjwatson> (the above comments do not constitute a freeze exception ... I haven't looked at it)
<goshawk> of course :)
<goshawk> done
<nhandler> goshawk: Just to clarify, this libconfig is in no way related to the old libconifg that was previously in Ubuntu and Debian, it is a different application that just shares the same name, correct? 
<goshawk> it seems so for me
<goshawk> cuz also the pk provided are different
<goshawk> sites are different
<goshawk> i mean websites
<nhandler> Ok, I just wanted to make sure I understood the wnpp bug correct
<goshawk> versions are different too
<nhandler> cjwatson: Would we need to do anything special on our end to handle the package? 
<porthose> would a kind member of MOTU-release please unsubscribe MOTU-release from Bug #338408, as the upstream maintainer is updating the package :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338408 in coherence "FFe for python-coherence" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338408
 * nhandler goes to look
<adelie42> Hello, I am a long time hobby programmer, but new to this collaborative environment.  I just spent today fixing some bugs, but I think I "did it wrong".  I used 'apt-get source' to get the package, but now it looks like I should have gotten the source via 'bzr branch'.  I have been following http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html but still feel a bit lost.  Any assistance? 
<nhandler> porthose: Done, but FYI, it really isn't a huge deal.  Most motu-release members will ignore bugs in the Incomplete state
<nhandler> adelie42: What is the package? 
<adelie42> example-content
<porthose> nhandler: thxs good to know :)
<adelie42> PDFs were corrupted and there were some typos.  Not really 'programming' bugs, but wondering if I used the right source / made the right kind of patch
<adelie42> err... ok, I am looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing after just noticing it in the title.  Think I will get through that first. 
<cjwatson> nhandler: not if it isn't in Ubuntu right now
<cjwatson> nhandler: under the current source package name (which AIUI is libconfig++ not libconfig?) 
<cjwatson> oh, no, apparently it's libconfig
<cjwatson> anyway, if it isn't in jaunty right now, no special action is required
<nhandler> Ok, I just wanted to make sure. 
<cjwatson> might want to make sure it doesn't share the same binary names
<cjwatson> which is the only thing that's really significant for upgrade purposes
<nhandler> That is on my todo list of things to check
<goshawk> nhandler: thanks for the summary change ;)
<nhandler> No problem goshawk.  It just makes things more clear to people looking at the bug
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-14
<porthose> nhandler: Thank you for your mentoring efforts. ;-) 
<crist1> aloha
<crist1> if a package is named 1:0.3.0-14, i should rename after altering 1:0.3.0-15ubuntu1? 
<crist1> or 1.0.3.0-14ubuntu1? 
<goshawk> crist1: second form
<goshawk> but wait me have a look
<crist1> goshawk: thank you
<goshawk> yep crist1 second form
<nazgand> What are the requirements to become a MOTU member, and how long does it usually take after applying to become a member? 
<evilv> nazgand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU will have the info you are looking for
<nazgand> I've already been there, but I applied and I haven't been accepted yet, so I was wondering if I didn't fill a requirement that I didn't read about or if I was just too impatient. 
<evilv> nazgand: it takes time to go through the process
<nazgand> Ok, thank you. 
<evilv> after having several packages sponsored, your sponsors will tell you when you are ready
<nazgand> Ok. 
<__iron> hi
<nhandler> Hey __iron
<__iron> i'm just writing a java ftp-client framework
<__iron> and i would release it for ubuntu is anybody interessed ? 
<__iron> hi nhandler
<nhandler> __iron: I'm sure some people would be interested in an application like that
<__iron> k fine
<__iron> thx nhandler
<nhandler> You're welcome __iron.  If you need any help packaging it, feel free to ask. 
<__iron> k thx+
<ripps> Hey, I'm back and I'm still needing help getting my source package to install correctly. 
<nhandler> ripps: What is the issue? 
<ripps> nhanler: I have a source package that runs a script that clones 20 plugins from git, runs autogen.sh in each, and then installs them.  The probelm is at the final stage of dh_install, it can't find the files so I seperate them according their debian/package_name.install. 
<ripps> Hold on, I'm doing a fresh pbuilder build with a logfile. 
<ripps> Man, it segfaulted again.  This is getting pretty annoying
<nhandler> ripps: I'm going to head off to bed.  I'm sure someone else will be able to help you. 
<ripps> nhandler: okay, thanks anyway
<adelie421> anyone else having connectivity issues with launchpad? 
<JanC> adelie421: seems t owork for me? 
<JanC> it's sometimes slow though
<wgrant> Production doesn't work, but edge does sometimes. 
<wgrant> Hmm, prod does too, but very, very slowly. 
<adelie421> is motu only about packaging, or does it include all direct contributions to ubuntu.  Reading the packaging guide right now and trying to get a feel for the scope of motu
<ripps> Can someone help me figure out what's wrong with my source package build?  I'm using a scritpt that pulls plugins from git, runs autogen.sh in each one, and then builds and installs them.  I have it setup for split packages using debian/package_name.install, but something goes wrong at dh_install.  Here's the pbuilder logfile: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130899/
<adelie421> Anyone free to help a noob?  Do I need to register a branch before I use bzr send -o foo.patch? 
<adelie421> I am feeling a bit overwhelmed here trying to properly submit a patch.  I have been following http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
<ripps> adelie421: Try asking for help in #bzr as well. 
<adelie421> k
<Ryan52> ripps: did you get it figured out? 
<Ryan52> (whatever it might be..)
<ripps> Ryan52: no
<Ryan52> I might be able to help...
<Ryan52> ripps: so what was your question? 
<ripps> Ryan52: Oh, you just logged on, so you haven't seen my post, hold on. 
<ripps> I'm using a scritpt that pulls plugins from git, runs autogen.sh in each one, and then builds and installs them.  I have it setup for split packages using debian/package_name.install, but something goes wrong at dh_install.  Here's the pbuilder logfile: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130899/
<Ryan52> okay, what do your debian/package_name.install files look like? 
<ripps> I have 20 of them, but I'll post one of them to give you an idea. 
<ripps> Ryan52: Here's debian/gmpc-alarm.install: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130916/
<ripps> It's based on what dpkg -L says about it as a standalone package. 
<Ryan52> hmm. 
<Ryan52> debian/tmp/usr/lib/gmpc/plugins/alarmplugin.la exists? 
<ripps> Well, according to libtool, it installed the file there.  I can't check because this was built in a pbuilder environment
<Ryan52> why are you building in pbuilder? 
<ripps> Ryan52: to keep the build environment clean, and so that I know that it will work when I upload to the ppa
<Ryan52> what's debian/compat? 
<ripps> Ryan52: 5
<Ryan52> change it to 7
<Ryan52> and see if it works. 
<ripps> Okay, let me warn you I tend to get segfaults often while building, so it might take awhile
<Ryan52> ripps: http://pastie.org/415971
<Ryan52> it lookes like that syntax only works with debhelper 7 and up. 
<ripps> Ryan52: Oh, I wish someone had told me about that sooner
<ripps> Every package guide I read said to leave it at 5
 * ripps crosses his fingers
<Ryan52> :)
<Ryan52> usr/share/doc/gmpc-alarm/TODO
<Ryan52> usr/share/doc/gmpc-alarm/AUTHORS
<Ryan52> usr/share/doc/gmpc-alarm/README
<Ryan52> hmm. 
<Ryan52> is the upstream Makefile actually installing those there? 
<Ryan52> I doubt it. 
<fabrice_sp> ripps, when you have problems building a package, you can login to the chroot hidden behind pbuilder and make a manual build
<fabrice_sp> this way, you can check where the files are installed
<Ryan52> you probably should put the path (in the source, not from debian/tmp/) of those in debian/gmpc-alarm.docs instead. 
<ripps> Ryan52: I'll do that, if it gets past the point it always fails. 
<ripps> fabrice_sp: I know I can use pbuilder --login, but how do I move my package source into there? 
<Ryan52> well, it'll still fail at the same point if those aren't being installed by the upstream makefile. 
<Ryan52> ripps: cp?  wget? 
<ripps> ... how about a bindmount? 
<Ryan52> man pbuilder
<Ryan52> /--bindmounts
<fabrice_sp> --bindmounts option
<fabrice_sp> too late :-)
<Ryan52> hehe
<ripps> I use bindmounts with a hook script to have pbuilder scan it's result directory and import the completed packages into it's database. 
<Ryan52> pbuilder has a database? 
<ripps> it's apt database, just like ubuntu has. 
<ripps> So it'll install packages I built there that aren't included in any repositories (sometimes necesary when I'm testing new packages that have upstream dependencies)
<Ryan52> nice. 
<Ryan52> ripps: could you please share those scripts? :) 
<ripps> Ryan52: http://paste.ubuntu.com/130928/
<ripps> I'll rename it to .D70results when I'm not needing upstream dependencies, because it slows down the package fetching time with apt-get update. 
<ripps> I commented out lines from an old version of the script that didn't work. 
<Ryan52> oh, so you're just building an apt repository in your result dir.  that seems useful. 
<ripps> Basically
<ripps> very useful
<ripps> make sure to have you result directory in you bindmounts, otherwise it's useless
<Ryan52> right. 
 * Ryan52 usually goes through the trouble to build the package, use my custom repository building scripts to build an apt repo, sign it, rsync it to my vps, and manually edit the chroot's sources.list :P
<ripps> I tried doing that before I read this: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/software/pbuilder-doc/pbuilder-doc.html#usingspecialaptsources
<ripps> If you guys are wondering what this is for, it's because I maintain the gmpc-trunk team ppa, and try to keep it updated somewhat close to git upstream.  The problem is that it has over 20 plugins that I've had to package and upload individually, and they need to be reuploaded everytime there's been a change to the core program.  Not to mention that I backport it to intrepid and hardy. 
<ripps> Please don't segfault... please don't segfault...
<ripps> dammit, signal 11 segfault
<ripps> trying again...
<fabrice_sp> ripps, what is your memory size?  I had this problem when I was compiling huge C++ programs and only 1Gb. 
<ripps> fabrice_sp: only 512mb. 
<ripps> But I think it's past the point I usually fail at, the gcc compiling. 
<fabrice_sp> ripps, that could explain the segfaults...
<fabrice_sp> oh
<ripps> I closed a bunch of stuff I had open.  Probably freed up a little memory
<Ryan52> lack of memory causing a seg fault?  that's a bug in something.  :P
 * Ryan52 thinks somebody forgot to check some return codes :)
<ripps> fabrice_sp, Ryan52: It went further than it did before, but I still got an error
<ripps> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/share/doc/gmpc-alarm/TODO': No such file or director
<Ryan52> yep, I knew that would happen. 
<ripps> But I think that's fixable, it's my *.install file's fault. 
<Ryan52> like I said, do the docs thing. 
<ripps> Getting on it now. 
<fabrice_sp> that's why building inside a chroot allows you to check that, and only repeat the install part :-)
<Ryan52> that's why ripps shoulda just made the change when I first brought it up :D
<ripps> I was impatient, it's gonna take me awhile to change 20+ files
<Ryan52> oh, fun. 
<ripps> (although I could have been doing it while it was compiling)
<ripps> Ryan52: what about *.png files? 
<Ryan52> what do you mean what about them? 
<ripps> Do they go in *.doc or *.install? 
<Ryan52> depends. 
<Ryan52> if upstream Makefile installs them debian/tmp
<Ryan52> then specify the path from as if you are in debian/tmp and put it in package.install
<Ryan52> if you want them in /usr/share/doc/package/ put them in package.docs
<ripps>  /usr/bin/install -c -m 644 'magnatune.png' '/tmp/buildd/gmpc-plugins-0.18.0/debian/tmp//usr/share/gmpc/plugins/magnatune//magnatune.png'
<ripps> so *.install
<Ryan52> yep. 
<ripps> Well, let's try this one more time (hopefully. 
<ripps> I usually do my builds using cowbuilder, but I think the original pbuilder works well with this build, probably because pbuilder doesn't operate within the userspace. 
<eMerzh> if a motu want to review my package, it's waiting at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :)
<DktrKranz> RainCT, heh :)
<DktrKranz> feel free to reupload with suggestion I just mailed ;)
<RainCT> lol
<directhex> mornin'
<DktrKranz> hi directhex
 * directhex finds himself unable to test-build things, as his mirror's Packages.gz for universe is busted
<directhex> DktrKranz, feel like the adventure of a lifetime?  try building http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/b/boo/boo_0.8.1.2865-3.dsc in an up-to-date jaunty pbuilder! 
<directhex> DktrKranz, oh, and you know the monodevelop FFe was a good idea when you receive lengthy thank you messages from projects, cc'd to miguel de icaza
 * wgrant is very concerned about the >100 FTBFSes like http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/job/43267 we are looking at. 
<wgrant> I have 56 at the moment, with only half of universe built. 
<c_korn> can a MOTU have a look at sivp and upload it to the jaunty queue if everyting is correct?  bug 334362
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334362 in sivp "FeatureFreezeException: Please update sivp 0.5.0 from REVU" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334362
<lfaraone> Is there any utility in attaching a debdiff to a sync request? 
<RainCT> uhm.. can I install a i386 package on amd64? 
<lfaraone> RainCT: It'll *run*, if it has all of the compat libs installed. 
<lfaraone> RainCT: why? 
<lfaraone> RainCT: as a rule it's a bad idea :)
<RainCT> but dpkg won't let me install it :)
<RainCT> *cough* because I want to try an applications for which there's only a .deb for i386 and I'm too lazy to compile it myself *cough*
<geser> RainCT: use more force (--force-architecture)
<geser> and it's not statically build you need all the needed libs as i386 too
<directhex> usually by dumping them in /usr/lib32
<RainCT> Ah right, thanks.  But it conflicts with another package, so I guess I'll wait until someone packages it :P
<DktrKranz> directhex, :)
<DktrKranz> directhex, still need a testbuild? 
<directhex> DktrKranz, please.  and if it works, you could ack https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/339808 ! 
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 339808 in boo "Please sync boo 0.8.1.2865-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [ Undecided,New]
<DktrKranz> directhex, I'll fire up my company's server, just some minutes :)
<DktrKranz> directhex, it's i386
<c_korn> what does this line mean in a diff? 
<c_korn> !  import_all(tesseract)
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<directhex> i386?  yay, retro! 
<DktrKranz> intel xeon dual core
<DktrKranz> but still i386
<pmjdebruijn> hmmm is it already possible to use PPA for Jaunty? 
<directhex> pmjdebruijn, of course! 
<pmjdebruijn> do I need to do anything for that?  or will it recognize it in the changelog? 
 * iulian is free to testbuild things. 
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: changelog
<pmjdebruijn> sweet
<pmjdebruijn> I recently got a mail telling my that I was reaching my PPA's 1GB limit
<pmjdebruijn> but, I can see why... archived packages? 
<directhex> iulian, if you have an absolutely up-to-date jaunty environment to hand, can you pastebin the output of apt-cache rdepends libmono-corlib1.0-cil for me? 
<iulian> directhex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/131065/plain/
<ryanakca> Ok, I got a pile of packaging bugs for slingshot fixed in Debian.  Is it too late to sync?  No changes on the Ubuntu side. 
<directhex> iulian, neato - log4net is definitely not on that list anymore (1.2.10+dfsg-3 Published in jaunty-release 16 hours ago), so boo is the single remaining 1.0-using source package in the archive (other than mono itself)
<DktrKranz> directhex, I haven't it in my list
<DktrKranz> apt-get update just two hours ago
<iulian> directhex: Ouh, lemme run an upgrade again. 
<directhex> so if boo gets synced, then the mono transition is over.  fini.  kaput. 
<DktrKranz> c_korn, I'll probably have a look at sivp later, unless mok0 is already on it
<iulian> It takes much more time to unpack and replace than download packages. 
<DktrKranz> directhex, what about the remaining packages?  Are they going to disappear? 
<directhex> DktrKranz, the remaining packages are all produced by the mono source package.  they're occasionally used for building, and may be of use for compatibility for people running arbitrary .net apps, but no app/lib dep will pull them in
<DktrKranz> directhex, so they can be moved to universe? 
<DktrKranz> (if not already)
<directhex> DktrKranz, some, not all, can be (check reverse-build-depends)
<directhex> corlib, cairo, and system will resist
<DktrKranz> well, if we can move some out of seeds and save some disk space, I think some people could be happy :)
<directhex> you'll need to manually check reverse-build-depends on all of them.  but a cursory examination suggests that most can be moved to universe
<directhex> also check rdepends
<directhex> in theory only the ones depended on by mono-devel are needed anymore, i think
<directhex> but double-check to be sure
<DktrKranz> are the all belonging to mono source package? 
<directhex> yes
 * DktrKranz looks
<DktrKranz> directhex, some of them belong to xsp
<DktrKranz> apt-cache rdepends libmono-corlib1.0-cil | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sort -du
<pmjdebruijn> "Rejected: Could not find person ''"
<pmjdebruijn> I got that in an email from PPA
<DktrKranz> directhex, btw build successful, I'm going to ACK that bug
<pmjdebruijn> what could be wrong...
<pmjdebruijn> these are packages for Jaunty... not Intrepid
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, is Maintainer field correctly formatted? 
<pmjdebruijn> I think so? 
<pmjdebruijn> It's not different from when I built  for Intrepid? 
<pmjdebruijn> have new check/policies been introduced? 
<DktrKranz> I don't think so
<DktrKranz> also check if changelog timestamp entry is ok
<pmjdebruijn> it's `date -R`
<c_korn> DktrKranz: ok.  I did not see mok0 online here for some time.  don't know if he is on it
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, check the name and email after --
<DktrKranz> c_korn, I'll have a look then
<c_korn> ok
<DktrKranz> btw, it's not necessary using REVU for merges or package updates
<c_korn> so the debdiff would have been enough? 
<DktrKranz> c_korn, yes, it's more evident to see changes introduced, REVU is mainly for new packages, where every bit must be looked
<pmjdebruijn> DktrKranz: yep, that's okay
<DktrKranz> c_korn, I'm looking at your debdiff in the bug report, you removed .svn directory, isn't it? 
<c_korn> yes
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, did you adjusted your dput.cf file? 
<DktrKranz> *adjust
<pmjdebruijn> the login? 
<DktrKranz> yes
<DktrKranz> errr...
 * pmjdebruijn doesn't remember changed that last time... but I'm semi-senile... so that doesn't mean anything
<DktrKranz> incoming
<DktrKranz> incoming                = ~%(ppa)s/ppa/ubuntu
<DktrKranz> that's the default
<pmjdebruijn> DktrKranz: yep, that's okayincoming                = ~%(ppa)s/ubuntu
<pmjdebruijn> sorry
<DktrKranz> you should replace %(ppa)s with your LP id
<pmjdebruijn> 'incoming = ~pmjdebruijn/ubuntu' should be okay then? 
<DktrKranz> c_korn, it's legal to remove it, I'd be more inclined report Sylvestre just to be sure it will removed Debian side too
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, incoming = ~pmjdebruijn/ppa/ubuntu
<pmjdebruijn> DktrKranz: my stock dput.cf doesn't include /ppa/
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, there have been changes in PPA incoming directory, now /ppa/ is part of the path.  Not sure if they removed compatibility with old ~LP_id/ubuntu, though, but using new format is safe. 
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<pmjdebruijn> now I have a file conflict
<pmjdebruijn> a downstream tarball has changed
<pmjdebruijn> aren't packages for intrepid and jaunty seperated? 
<pmjdebruijn> I need the new tarball, but I don't want to break my Intrepid package
<cjwatson> I understand that you can do 'dput ppa:pmjdebruijn' rather than having to edit the default file
<DktrKranz> if you have the same .orig.tar.gz name but with different md5 sums, it will get rejected
<cjwatson> or 'dput ppa:pmjdebruijn/ppa' if you have it in the form pmjdebruijn quoted
<pmjdebruijn> cjwatson: right
<cjwatson> http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/
<cjwatson> oops
<cjwatson> http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/simplifying-dputcf-for-multiple-ppas
<pmjdebruijn> I already edited the file, and it's fine now
<pmjdebruijn> my problem now is a tarball conflict with an older package
<pmjdebruijn> which I do _not_ want to break
<directhex> DktrKranz, xsp is in univsre, and it's okay for xsp to have 1.0 deps (xsp2 from the same course package is the 2.0 version)
<cjwatson> if the tarball has changed but has the same version number, then you must artificially rename it
<c_korn> DktrKranz: I am in contact with Sylvestre.  will notify him. 
<DktrKranz> directhex, cool then
<pmjdebruijn> cjwatson: like? 
<cjwatson> you cannot have two objects with the same file name but different contents in the same archive
<cjwatson> pmjdebruijn: up to you
<pmjdebruijn> cjwatson: "the same archive" is intrepid and jaunty stuff mixed then? 
<cjwatson> yes. 
<pmjdebruijn> ugh
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, foo_0.1+repack.orig.tar.gz could go
<cjwatson> there's a single pool
<pmjdebruijn> hmmm
<cjwatson> which will then mean that your package is versioned 0.1+repack-0ubuntu1 or whatever
<pmjdebruijn> oh well, too bad for folks still on Intrepid then
<cjwatson> why *not* rename it? 
<cjwatson> it's the right thing to do
<pmjdebruijn> is it? 
<directhex> the root question here is, why do you WANT different orig with the same version? 
 * cjwatson -> out
<DktrKranz> nhandler, bug 266919, is it managed using Rosetta?  I can't find it in package list. 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 266919 in knoda "knoda italian translation" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/266919
<slytherin> when specifying CFLAGS, is order of the flags important? 
<pmjdebruijn> directhex: I'm going to check the differences
<pmjdebruijn> directhex: the base directory seems to be the only difference, then I'll stick with the old tarball
<pmjdebruijn> won't the common pool mean I can't have identical debian versions in different dists as well? 
<pmjdebruijn> cd ..
<DktrKranz> pmjdebruijn, you can have identical upstream versions, but you have to use a different version for each release
<pmjdebruijn> seems rather nasty
<DktrKranz> e.g. if you have foo 0.1-1ubuntu1 in jaunty, you can upload foo 0.1-1ubuntu1~intrepid for intrepid, foo 0.1-1ubuntu1~hardy for hardy and so on
<DktrKranz> package contents do not change, only version is mangled
<directhex> siretart, ping
<DktrKranz> c_korn, are bug 340520 and bug 329399 addressed with your upload? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340520 in sivp "package sivp 0.4.3-4 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340520
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329399 in sivp "Problem uninstalling sivp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329399
<c_korn> DktrKranz: should be fixed in the package.  it was because the package did not check if the symlink was there and tried to remove it. ( it is not fixed in the debian version yet)
<c_korn> I tried updating sivp-4.x to sivp-5.x and removing
<c_korn> everything works
<DktrKranz> so, it's fixed by new upstream? 
<DktrKranz> c_korn, --^
<c_korn> DktrKranz: yes, I would say so.  it is because the install directory detection changed from scilab-4 to scilab-5 so sivp-4.x cannot find scilab. 
<DktrKranz> ok, I'll mangle your changelog entry to reflect it
<slytherin> what is the way to figure out differences between two versions of same library? 
<eMerzh> if a motu want to review my package, it's waiting at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<lidaobing> sladen, dpkg-gensymbols works for you? 
<lidaobing> slytherin,  dpkg-gensymbols works for you? 
<slytherin> lidaobing: does it work as standalone tool? 
<lidaobing> slytherin, no, but you can use objdump
<siretart> directhex: pong
<DktrKranz> c_korn, done
<c_korn> DktrKranz: thanks, I currently see it building.  looks fine
<directhex> siretart, any guesses why i'd see cd /tm
<directhex> gah
<slytherin> lidaobing: I am using that but not able to figure out the differences. 
<directhex> siretart, any guesses why i'd see "/tmp/buildd/ffmpeg-0.svn20090303/libavcodec/dsputil.c:2846: error: 'CONFIG_H263_ENCODER' undeclared (first use in this function)" when trying to build unstripped ffmpeg locally? 
<siretart> directhex: well, see http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/ffmpeg-debian.git;a=blob;f=debian/strip.sh;hb=HEAD
<c_korn> DktrKranz: because scilab is now free the sivp package can go into universe I think.  should I wait until released in multiverse and request a move or can it be released into universe directly? 
<siretart> directhex: that sed command is removing the h263 encoder, which is required for ffmpeg-debian in main
<ScottK> c_korn: Is sivp in New or waiting to be uploaded? 
<c_korn> ehm, it is currently building: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/sivp/0.5.0-1ubuntu1
<directhex> siretart, damn, that's it, i was switching debian/control to build unstripped but hadn't realised orig differed
<pmjdebruijn> eh... now I have a bigger issue
<pmjdebruijn> I have lensfun_0.2.3.orig.tar.gz in my intrepid ppa, which differs from Ubuntu's master archive lensfun_0.2.3.orig.tar.gz
<pmjdebruijn> I can't use either
<pmjdebruijn> without renaming
<pmjdebruijn> so I can't use the proper tarball, because I used a bad one in the past
<siretart> directhex: get the branch from git.debian.org and 'git checkout ubuntu.jaunty.unstripped'
 * pmjdebruijn is getting punished for being sloppy in the past :(
<maxb> pmjdebruijn: I *think* if you delete things from your PPA and wait long enough for them to be purged completely you can replace the tarball. 
<directhex> siretart, there aren't any conflicts that would prevent me from installing it alongside lavc51 in intrepid are there? 
<siretart> directhex: there are.  the new libavutil has a Breaks: libavcodec51.  On purpose :(
<siretart> directhex: see also my PPA.  I have backported most packages in intrepid for the new ffmpeg
<pmjdebruijn> maxb: yes, but this library is a dependancy for most of my PPA packages for Intrepid, so if I delete the packages, I can basically empty out my entire PPA
<directhex> siretart, probably best to wait until jaunty, i fear.  i can make do for now
<siretart> directhex: or you could help me backporting the rest of the packages, and have then in the motumedia ppa
<siretart> s/have/maintain/
<directhex> siretart, sorry, i don't have enough free cycles to take that on
 * pmjdebruijn is going to purge his entire PPA...
<c_korn> hm, does this build hang?  https://launchpad.net/+builds/crested/+index
<c_korn> others only needed 10minutes
<slytherin> any autotools experts here? 
<slytherin> siretart: remember the discussion about libxine having it's own copy of libdvdread/libdvdnav?  What kind of analysis should I do before proposing that we use the external libdvdread/libdvdnav? 
 * hyperair wonders if anyone can review gtk2-engines-aurora
<ryanakca> When trying to make a building chroot, I get W: BAD signature from "Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (4.0/etch) <ftpmaster@debian.org>"   ... any iedas? 
<sistpoty> hi fols
<sistpoty> +k
<iulian> Hey sistpoty. 
<sistpoty> hi iulian:
<sistpoty> iulian, DktrKranz, ScottK, DktrKranz, nhandler: proposal for mail to ubuntu-devel-announce... problem is that I'm not too sure about rebuild statistics yet (which is [4]): http://paste.ubuntu.com/131242/
<pochu> DktrKranz: you gotta read it twice :)
<sistpoty> damn
<sistpoty> slangasek: oh, if the mail proposal finds approval, anything you'd like to add for ubuntu-relelase? ( http://paste.ubuntu.com/131242/)
<sistpoty> s/relelase/release/
<DktrKranz> pochu, I'm like Dr. Jekill and Mr. Hyde, you have to ping me twice in a statement to have my full attention, or you receive just a half
<sistpoty> haha
<RainCT> lol
 * RainCT is happy because he got his boot time from 80 to 50 seconds :)
<pochu> huh, 80
<pochu> RainCT: is that your Acer eMachines? ;-) 
<RainCT> yeah.. 20 of those are the X trying to start several times..
<DktrKranz> RainCT, have you hamsters instead of CPUs? 
<RainCT> pochu: No.  The eMachines one is really fast :)
<iulian> Hamsters... yikes! 
<RainCT> hah
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, what about qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbs or http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/dist/jaunty/arch/i386/failed ? 
<iulian> I'd go with the former. 
<DktrKranz> *ftbfs
<RainCT> btw, does concurrency=shell work now?  last time I tried the boot would get slighly slower because the laptop did everything twice (once at every CPU) XD
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: cool, didn't know about that link... even seems up to date
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: thanks
<RainCT> (s/CPU/core, of course)
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, np, thanks for preparing it :)
<RainCT> jdong_: thanks for the readahead tutorial, btw :)  that gave me, together with switching to ext4, 25 seconds
<DktrKranz> RainCT, I'll be satisfied when my system will boot in -3 seconds
<RainCT> DktrKranz: Heh.  How long does it take now? 
<DktrKranz> about 70 seconds
<dtchen> DktrKranz: that's easy - just remove all the hw. 
<RainCT> DktrKranz: err.. and you complain about my CPU?  :P
<DktrKranz> dtchen, I was thinking about a system plugged with my brain which interpretes my wish to turn on PC and he starts system in advance
<iulian> Hmm, I believe my crappy lappy boots in less than 50 seconds. 
 * iulian should test it some day. 
<DktrKranz> RainCT, in two years my PC won't be underage anymore :)
<jdong> RainCT: neat :)
<jdong> RainCT: another bootup hack to try is to "delay" noncritical bootup services until way after GDM
<RainCT> jdong: how is that done? 
<dtchen> or just drop your rotary disks for SSD
<jdong> RainCT: in my system GDM is S13, everything that GDM doesn't depend on is moved to S50 and beyond, and S45 is basically "sleep 120s"
<sistpoty> slangasek: around?  I'd like to send a mail to u-d-a regarding a new ubuntu-release delegate, which however also mentions common tasks at this point, want to add s.th.  for ubuntu in general? ( proposal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/131252/)
<jdong> (it's a hack but gets me to the login screen ~5s faster)
<DktrKranz> lol, my package FTBFS and I wasn't aware of that! 
<DktrKranz> http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/job/43632
<iulian> Heh
<RainCT> although I guess I'd already be happy if I got ride of the damn 20 seconds worth in tries to start X.. XD
<RoAkSoAx> bug 277648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277648 in vm-builder "libdevmapper does not load its kernel modules upon install" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277648
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: that happens... fauhdlc FTBFS'd on anything but i386 and amd64 even though I wrote almost every single line for it
<RainCT> jdong: uhm.. wheren't they discussing doing something like that in #ubuntu-devel a few days ago
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, I wasn't aware of that because I haven't rebuilt my python packages against 2.6
 * DktrKranz should have a run at them tomorrow
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: heh... I'm still curious what edos is about :P
<DktrKranz> I love edos-debcheck
<DktrKranz> it's simply extraordinary :)
<sistpoty> (the pasted commands won't work for me... I'm on unstable right now, and don't intent to reboot to jaunty as of speeking)
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: what exactly does edos provide? 
<sistpoty> (or edos-debcheck?) 
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, it checks for package installability comparing package versions, conflicts or blocks fields
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: then it'd be similar as in "apt-cache -i unmet" for a given arch? 
<DktrKranz> mostly, but it tells you why:
<DktrKranz> envyng-qt (= 2.0.1): FAILED
<DktrKranz> The following constraints cannot be satisfied:
<DktrKranz>   envyng-qt (= 2.0.1) depends on python (<< 2.6) {NOT AVAILABLE}
<DktrKranz> e.g.   this one states envyng-qt requires to be rebuilt against 2.5, apt-cache -i unmet tells you it's just uninstallable
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: well, apt-cache -i unmet also tells you why... but only for the arch *you are running apt-get on*
<DktrKranz> ah, long time I don't use it
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: so, it seems like a arch-independent apt-get -i unmet is a *huge* win ;)
<DktrKranz> well, edos-debcheck needs Package from mirrors, so you can run it for sparc, ppc or armel
<jdong> RainCT: the Dell Mini 9 Ubuntu spin does something similar too
<DktrKranz> just fetch Packages.gz files and give it them to eat
<sistpoty> sure, the info should be there
<sistpoty> still it's a leap jump from checking unstallable package for
<sistpoty> + *one* arch, instead of any arch
<sistpoty> I guess only britney could do this back then... (or whatever is the name now that debian-release use for their testing-migration script)
<DktrKranz> I guess it's britney
<sistpoty> heh
<DktrKranz> oh, holger is doing amazing job on piuparts these days! 
<DktrKranz> I'd like to use it more in Ubuntu
<ryanakca> I got a pile of packaging bugs for slingshot fixed in Debian (bugs were filed in both Ubuntu and Debian).  Is it too late to sync? 
<dtchen> no
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: oh?  cool... from my personal setup, it usually bailed out (since I guess I must have been doing s.th.  wrong... either wrong .tar.gz or s.th.  else)
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, I plan to have it working out-of-the-box, it needs some love :)
<sistpoty> ryanakca: new upstream release in unstable? 
<sistpoty> ryanakca: that brings in new features apart from only bug fixes? 
 * DktrKranz runs now, c u tomorrow
<sistpoty> cya DktrKranz:
<sistpoty> ryanakca: if it's only bug fixes, there's no problem... otherwise we'd need a feature freeze exception request
<ryanakca> sistpoty: No, same old version, upstream is MIA.  Just packaging bug fixes (aka, inserted an xpm icon, updated path to GPL, depend on ttf-freefont instead of installing a duplicate, etc)
<sistpoty> ryanakca: then that's fine... can you file a sync request? 
<ryanakca> sistpoty: Sure. 
<sistpoty> ryanakca: thanks! 
<c_korn> I don't understand why the build of sivp for amd64 fails: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sivp/0.5.0-1ubuntu1/+build/904358/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.sivp_0.5.0-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<c_korn> it succeeds in a PPA
<c_korn> (the PPA is here https://launchpad.net/~getdeb.packages/+archive/ppa)
<ScottK> c_korn: Put it in a PPA that doesn't have a lot of non-Ubuntu stuff in it and see if it builds. 
<ScottK> There may be something it builds against in the PPA that isn't in Ubuntu. 
<c_korn> ScottK: lots of non-ubuntu stuff? 
<c_korn> there is only vlc in it
<ScottK> Oh.   OK. 
 * ScottK made an assumption that the getdeb PPA would have lots of stuff in it. 
<ScottK> Nevermind then. 
<ScottK> Let's give it a retry. 
<c_korn> ScottK: hrhr.  reuploading
<ScottK> c_korn: No need to reupload.   I can trigger a retry
<ryanakca> sistpoty: Hmmm... ``The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (0.8.1p-1).  Aborting.'' ...  however, http://packages.debian.org/sid/slingshot shows 0.8.1p-2 ... give it a few hours? 
<c_korn> ScottK: I mean I reupload it to the PPA.  just for testing
<ScottK> c_korn: Ah.   OK.   Makes sense.   I just retried it too, so we'll see. 
<c_korn> ScottK: actually there was scilab before in the PPA (when scilab was not yet in ubuntu).  but the same version has been published in jaunty
<ScottK> OK. 
<sistpoty> ryanakca: ubuntu doesn't have -2, so at this point of time, you'd need to file a sync request for -2
<sistpoty> ryanakca: only before debian import freeze, packages are synced automatically (if these don't have ubuntu changes)
<ryanakca> sistpoty: *nod*, ... so, shouldn't ``requestsync -k E95EDDC9 slingshot jaunty'' do it? 
<sistpoty> ryanakca: no idea, haven't use requestsync myself yet (I'm always filing these by hand *g*(
<ryanakca> *nod*, thanks :)
<jacob> would patching mail-notification to work well with notify-osd be something that would require a FFe?  I ask because the proposal on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD suggests UI changes if notify-osd is in use
<c_korn> ScottK: it still builds fine in the PPA https://launchpad.net/~getdeb.packages/+archive/ppa/+build/904630
<wgrant> apachelogger: kde-i18n-* all seem to FTBFS like http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/job/43356. 
<apachelogger> wgrant: --without-arts needs to be added to the configure arguments
<wgrant> apachelogger: I presume there's some way to do it to all of them? 
<apachelogger> not really
<apachelogger> I'd recommend to write a simple script apt-get source'ing through apt-cache search kde-i18n- and then edit all of them
<wgrant> I don't really care about them - I'm just triaging all of the rebuild failures - but I'll do them if nobody else wants to. 
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: pling
<apachelogger> wgrant: I'll mail kubuntu-devel
<wgrant> apachelogger: Thanks. 
<wgrant> Similar failures make up about 10% of the failures so far. 
<wgrant> Most of those being langpacks. 
<adelie421> ok, finally figured out how to do a simple patch, but when I run 'debuild -S' I get " clearsign failed: secret key not available".  I have a registered key.  Any help?  I am new
<adelie421> I am following this guide given to me by the maintainer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<JontheEchidna> apachelogger: plong
<maxb> adelie421: Are you actually trying to prepare an upload, or just test the build? 
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do we have a minion to address the kde-i18n ftbfs? 
<JontheEchidna> hrm...
<adelie421> I am trying to prepare an upload
<JontheEchidna> apachelogger: not that I know of
<adelie421> It was mostly spelling errers / typos in documentation
<JontheEchidna> but I would rather not fancy getting 13K emails by doing it myself
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: lol
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you must triage your mails I say
<wgrant> Why 13K? 
<maxb> adelie421: Run 'gpg --list-secret-keys' and check whether any of the printed user IDs corresponds to the user ID of the top entry in the debian/changelog
<wgrant> Since they're not in main...
<JontheEchidna> oh, I was confusing them with kde-l10n
<adelie421> gpg --list-secret-keys
<adelie421> ha ha, doh
<JontheEchidna> which are in main
<JontheEchidna> That being said kde-l10n needs an upload too, bug 330069. 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 330069 in kde-l10n-it "[jaunty] packages kde-l10n-xx conflicts with i18n-xx packages by installing the same files." [ Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330069
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maybe batl10n-edit is of need
<JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I already blackhole everything from rosetta@launchpad.net :P
<adelie421> is the name supposed to be under the date? 
<adelie421> err... email does not match.  must be it
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: actually it could share most stuff with batl10n anyway ... so batl10n just needs to be copied and modified and the appropriate stuff moved to bat.rb
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: then it would also be mostly useable for kde-i18n
 * JontheEchidna nods
<adelie421> that was the problem.  Thanks!  btw, how do I change it so 'dch -i' uses the right email address? 
<maxb> export DEBEMAIL=....
<c_korn> ScottK: I don't know why it hangs again https://launchpad.net/+builds/yellow
<adelie421> maxb: will that fix it permanently? 
<apachelogger> anyway
<apachelogger> wgrant, JontheEchidna: mail sent
<c_korn> ScottK: exactly the same package has been built successfully here: https://launchpad.net/~getdeb.packages/+archive/ppa/+build/904630
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also, I am not sure kde-l10n should be changed to resolve that bug ... rather kde 3 should be using a different path for it's localized content, one really might want kde-l10n-de and kde-i18n-de for example
<JontheEchidna> true
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also-ng, you should blackhole everything from rosetta@launchpad.net that contains "successfully imported" or something ;-)
<JontheEchidna> what do I with failure though?  lol
<JontheEchidna> bring a sacrificial goat next time? 
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: poke launchpad guys and tell them their product is broken ;-)
<wgrant> apachelogger: The success notifications are disabled. 
<wgrant> But they probably won't actually go away until the next release, unless somebody can convince them a cherrypick is justified. 
 * apachelogger thinks that new contributors might get easily annoyed
<adelie421> ok, after running debdiff, at the top it says "gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found".  Is that ok, or did I miss something? 
<ScottK> wgrant: That's an odd definition of disabled then. 
<ScottK> c_korn: No idea then. 
<wgrant> ScottK: Disabled in trunk. 
<ScottK> is/will be then. 
<wgrant> Much that we mark as fixed many bugs that won't be fixed in a release for several months. 
<wgrant> s/that/like/
<ScottK> Trunk is a VCS, not a developemental release. 
 * ScottK thinks it's rather different. 
<wgrant> A development release here will be a VCS within a few releases, I suspect. 
<ScottK> Also with Ubuntu one could choose to run the developmental release.   With a service like LP, no such choice exists. 
<wgrant> Mm, edge, but that doesn't help for this particular change. 
<ScottK> Right. 
<jmarsden> I've made a versioning mistake in my PPA.   It thinks 1.7rc1 is newer than the final 1.7 release, and so won't accept the upload of the "final" version... is there a way to fix this?   I'm seeing: Rejected:
<jmarsden> bibletime_1.7-1ubuntu1~jmarsden1.dsc: Version older than that in the archive.  1.7-1ubuntu1~jmarsden1 <= 1.7rc1-1ubuntu1~jmarsden1
<wgrant> jmarsden: You wanted ~rc1.  There's no clean way to fix this, but using 1.7.0 instead will work. 
<jmarsden> Thanks, yes, I realise (now) the value of the ~ :)   I'll go with 1.7.0. 
<c_korn> ScottK: who should I ask about then? 
<c_korn> it is very odd
<c_korn> is this move request allright?  bug 342954
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342954 in sivp "move sivp from multiverse to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342954
<c_korn> I have an odd situation: sivp compiles fine in a PPA for amd64.  but the build on the official build machines just freezes for amd64.  who should I contact about that? 
<ScottK> c_korn: Someone who has amd64 (not me) and someone who understands java stuff (not me). 
<c_korn> ScottK: I contacted someone from #launchpad .  he wants to investigate.  thanks
<c_korn> need to sleep.  bye
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> you guys here make debs regularly correct? 
<joaopinto> meoblast001, yes
<meoblast001> ok
<meoblast001> i'm trying to become fluent at deb building and i've ran into a wall
<meoblast001> http://rafb.net/p/vB4wRZ75.html
<meoblast001> dpkg-source is failing
<joaopinto> meanburrito920_, the error message tells it all :)
<meoblast001> you mean meoblast001? 
<joaopinto> ops :P
<joaopinto> I do
<joaopinto> your clean rules is not cleaning what it should
<meoblast001> joaopinto: i'm sort of new at deb building (only built 2 packages before) so that error message isn't registering with my brain
<meoblast001> sounds to me like something exists now that didn't exist before? 
<joaopinto> meoblast001, yes, something that resulted from building, which means, it should be removed, at your clean rule
<joaopinto> usually with a -make distclean
<meoblast001> joaopinto: would that delete the entire compile? 
<meoblast001> it took some time to compile audacity on this pentium m
<meoblast001> i don't want to recompile it all
<meoblast001> should i just remove the files it's speaking of in the error?  that sounds like it would break audacity
<joaopinto> it would not break, they will be rebuilt
<joaopinto> you just want to build a .deb for your own use ? 
<meoblast001> joaopinto: well... basically... for learning purposes
<meoblast001> ugh.... the Do Not Eat on the package that came with this beef jerky is tempting
<meoblast001> oh wait.... ontopic
<meoblast001> debs
<meoblast001> joaopinto: ok thanks... let me try that real quick
<meoblast001> joaopinto: something makes me want to think it's remaking everything
<meoblast001> joaopinto: well... looks like i'll be waiting a while
<joaopinto> meoblast001, if you didn't use -nc, it did
<meoblast001> joaopinto: thanks for the heads up :P
<meoblast001> joaopinto: so i have to use -nc for it to not rebuild everything? 
<meoblast001> or -nc makes it rebuild everything
<meoblast001> joaopinto: ? 
<_Groo_> meanburrito920_: me?  nope, but i know him :)
<_Groo_> meoblast001: sorry i sent to meanburrito920_
<meoblast001> _Groo_: ? 
<_Groo_> meoblast001: never mind :D
<meoblast001> am i supposed to -nc my dpkg-buildpackage for it not to rebuild everything? 
#ubuntu-motu 2009-03-15
<meoblast001> joaopinto: my deb is done :)
<CarlFK1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/poppler-python/+bug/312462/comments/4  can someone walk me though adding that to rules? 
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 312462 in web2conf "document_new_from_data() arg1 must be without null bytes" [Medium,In progress]
<CarlFK1> currently there are no patches for that package, so no patches/ dir
<meoblast001> making debs is fun :)
<Laney> breaking debs is more fun
<CarlFK1> where does fixing broken fall? 
<ScottK> Somewhere below breaking Laney and above making debs. 
<CarlFK1> cuz it seems the one I want to add a patch to is broken out of the box: http://dpaste.com/14543/
<CarlFK1> I promise I didn't actually touch rules yet
<CarlFK1> I thought about trying to add my patch, then figured maybe I should make sure it builds without it... and BAM! 
<meoblast001> Laney: my debs arent perfect but they work :P
<Laney> always a good start
<meoblast001> Laney: i'm publishing them on http://www.meoblast001.mysticgalaxies.com
<CarlFK1> apt-get remove python-poppler-dbg = no error.   is that a bug, or expected? 
<crimsun> any main sponsors want to upload a fix for a PulseAudio syslog DoS? 
<stgraber>         ltspfs - 0.5.10-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<stgraber> oops
<adelie421> So I am trying to follow https://help.launchpad.net/BranchMergeProposals, but when I go to the page mentioned at 'grep XS-Vcs-Bzr ./deb/control', there is no 'action' menu.  What am I doing wrong? 
<adelie421> the page only has two directories: changes and files.  There is also a search bar, but nothing else. 
<adelie421> Hmm.. if the guide meant the launchpad overview page, I see no "Action" menu there either
<pmjdebruijn> I built gnash-0.8.5 properly on my local system (Jaunty), but when I build it on PPA, it fails:
<pmjdebruijn> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/23865538/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.gnash_0.8.5-0pmjdebruijn1~jaunty_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> a|wen: Hi, as you were involved with the arts removal could you look at http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/job/45324 ?  there are several packages FTBFS in the rebuild test due to this.  Is adding --without-arts the right fix without breaking the package? 
 * sebner winks geser :)
 * geser waves back at sebner
<sebner> geser: basic education done, starting with office job on monday :P
<geser> nice, do you know what kind of office job you get? 
<sebner> geser: what kind? 
<geser> sebner: what will you do next week exactly? 
<geser> I got in a totally different unit after my basic training. 
<a|wen> geser: --without-arts should work in 95% of the cases; so trying that first should be the way to go
<a|wen> geser: i can take a look at kxstitch now
<sebner> geser: well, we got splited into 3 groups ( funker, antennenaufbauer, kabeltrÃ¤ger).  Ich wÃ¤re normal funker geworden (ist das beste, mit laptops arbeiten ..) aber da ich kanzleigehilfe bin, bin ich jetzt kabeltrÃ¤ger (da fÃ¤llts nicht auf wenn einer fehlt).  es gibt ja bei uns offiziell keine schreiber weil wir reine "funker" sind.  einer wird halt abgezogen und ist offiziell immer noch in einer der 3 gruppen und inoffiziell kanzleigehilfe
<geser> a|wen: looks like the remaining KDE 3.5.x packages are affected from a first glance (like kde-i18n-*; see http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/dist/jaunty/arch/i386/failed)
<a|wen> geser: yeah ... all the kde-i18n packages failed, we are in the middle of fixing right now
<geser> sebner: nett :)
<geser> a|wen: so I can ignore them as you (kubuntu-devs) take care of them? 
<a|wen> geser: you can ignore all the kde-i18n-* packages ... but you are more than welcome to fix some of the other k* packages
<a|wen> geser: after we get the kde-i18n-* up i'll try to look through the list as well
<geser> a|wen: will do as I fight myself through the rebuild results
<sebner> geser: mal schaun, normal sollte ich jetzt das schÃ¶nste leben haben.  ich hab halt angst das es mal heiÃt: Heute ist wenig zutun, du fÃ¤hrst mit gefechtsdienst oder anderer blÃ¶dsinn.  Weil der aktuelle gehilfe ist nÃ¤mlich von ner anderen kompanie und den kÃ¶nnen sie nicht so einfach wegschicken.  hoffe bei mir ist es aber auch nicht anderst als bei ihm
<a|wen> geser: it is a long list it seems ... a lot of transitions happening this time around
<a|wen> geser: if you want me to fix some of them, just ping me or/and add the package to bug 320915 and i'll look at it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320915 in cdbs "Remove aRts from the archive - rebuild all dependencies" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320915
<maix> hi, to what status do i have to set a bug if i've attached a patch? 
<slytherin> maix: is it a patch or debdiff? 
<maix> patch
<maix> ah and it's set to fix released atm
<maix> slytherin:
<slytherin> maix: so that means there is nothing more to be done. 
<maix> slytherin: yes, but i've found something that's wrong
<maix> it's that one here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+bug/182644
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 182644 in transmission "needs option to start minimized" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<a|wen> hmm, how do you unsubscribe u-u-s from a bug? 
<geser> a|wen: ask someone from u-u-s to unsubscribe
<a|wen> geser: i'm member of u-u-s now; how do i unsubscribe us? 
<geser> use the unsubscribe action on the bug
<slytherin> maix: in that case, reopen the bug (set to new) and add comment. 
<maix> ok thanks
<maix> (i commented already, marian sigler is me)
<a|wen> geser: hmm; do i need to be direct member of u-u-s to do that; i only get the option to unsubscribe myself
<geser> a|wen: yes
<a|wen> ahh, everything makes sense then ... i wonder why ~motu is not a member of ~u-u-s
<geser> if it's about bug 320915 I've unsubscribed u-u-s
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320915 in cdbs "Remove aRts from the archive - rebuild all dependencies" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320915
<porthose> Would a member of MOTU -release please have a look at Bug #186184, thank you ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 186184 in i8kutils "Please sync i8kutils-1.27+nmu1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186184
<a|wen> geser: thx ... guess i should poke someone for a membership then
 * ScottK grumbles about non-standard K* packages. 
<sebner> ScottK: it's KDE :P
 * ScottK added --without-arts to CDBS so K* packages packaged in the standard way for KDE would work fine. 
<iulian> porthose: Commented. 
<a|wen> ScottK: and we're thankful for that :) ... but seems a lot of packages does not use the "standard way"
<ScottK> Yep.   Apparently. 
<ScottK> Between that and Python 2.6 I think I know what I'm doing for the rest of this cycle. 
<porthose> iulian: Thank you :)
 * iulian wonders why python3.0 has Ubuntu Core devs as the Maintainer and the package is in universe. 
<iulian> porthose: You're welcome. 
<iulian> Looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3.0/+publishinghistory, the package has never been in main. 
<geser> iulian: probably the debian dir was c&p as python3 was also essential till it got fixed
<slytherin> iulian: another copy paste error, similar to how it was set to 'Essential: yes'
<slytherin> a|wen: not every motu is interested in working as sponsor. 
<jpds> geser: Thanks for the debootstrap Recommends catch, fixed. 
<joaopinto> I am trying to automate the console-setup install into a chroot, any tip on how to force it to install without asking for the kbd layout ? 
<geser> joaopinto: export DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
<a|wen> slytherin: and everybody would get all the bugmail for u-u-s if it was that way i presume... then it makes sense
<slytherin> a|wen: right
<joaopinto> geser, tried that, didn't help
<joaopinto> debconf: falling back to frontend: Readline
<joaopinto> debconf overrides it
<joaopinto> the latest console-setup update broke my schroot build script :(
<iulian> geser, slytherin: Oh, thanks for clarifying it. 
<a|wen> if the package doesn't use a patch system and i want to make a small patch to "configure" is it then best parctice to add a patch system or not? 
<geser> a|wen: don't add a patch system as the package will probably end with some patches applied directly and some through a patch system
<a|wen> geser: thx ... also my rationale; just wanted a confirmation
<mcnicholls> hi
<mcnicholls> got a quick question about cdbs patches.  Anyone around? 
<slytherin> mcnicholls: just ask
<imbrandon> just ask
<imbrandon> :)
<mcnicholls> ok thanks...
<mcnicholls> when naming a patch, is the nuumber you give it at the start of the filename important?  does it dictate the order patches are applied?  if i am adding a patch do i just take the next highest avaliable number? 
<imbrandon> yes and yes
<azeem> mcnicholls: depends on the patch system
<mcnicholls> sorry it is cdbs
<imbrandon> azeem: i think he means cdbs simple patchsys
<azeem> oh, didn't read that far back, sorry
<mcnicholls> np.  thanks for that.  can i just run by you guys what i am attempting to do...
<mcnicholls> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/270374
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 270374 in tsclient "[intrepid] enter a computer name then hit enter, list stays on screen and steals input" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<imbrandon> yea that bug bits me in te arse almost daily
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> bites*
<mcnicholls> Someone has posted a generic patch, this has been submitted upstream, but i was wondering if i could patch it up for jaunty release? 
<mcnicholls> lol me too, would love to get it fixed and want to learn about fixing bugs
<mcnicholls> so if i use that patch and produce a debdiff, do you think i could get it included? 
<imbrandon> should be able to as long as you follow the process
<imbrandon> its a bug only fix
<mcnicholls> so once i have a debdiff that i attach to the report, i read i just add the sponorship group and someone should upload it?  anything else i need to do? 
<imbrandon> i'm not sure with the exact process this cycle, but that sounds right
<mcnicholls> ok thanks
<mcnicholls> i shall attempt to get the diff, but am sure i shall be back for more help
<imbrandon> sure thing :)
<imbrandon> ok time to kill off this screen session, bbiab
<slytherin> mcnicholls: yes, that is how sponsorship works
<mcnicholls> one question i do have now though, i know you can run a script to submit patches and bug reports to debian.  should i do this or would you normally wait for upstream to come down? 
<slytherin> mcnicholls: Once the patch is accepted in Ubuntu, you can forward it to Debian if you want. 
<mcnicholls> suppose it is up to them deb maintainer to decide if it is worth having
<mcnicholls> i was just wondering if i should run the submittodebian script once i have my patch.  I suppose i would wait till ubuntu accept it like you say
<mcnicholls> if i am generating a patched package from someone elses source patch, should i give them credit in the change log somehow? 
<a|wen> mcnicholls: allways a good idea to give credit to the original author
<mcnicholls> a|wen: yeah i thought so.  any particular recommended way of putting this in the changelog? 
<a|wen> mcnicholls: not really... you can just append an "Original patch by ...", "Patch taken from ..." or "Thanks to ..." at the end of the line about adding the patch
<mcnicholls> ok, will do.  thanks
<a|wen> mcnicholls: depends on if it is a person (then i prefer the last) or a project, like upstream / debian / $linuxdist (then i use one of the first two)
<a|wen> but everyone has there favourite method ...
<mcnicholls> yeah it's a person who posted the patch against the bug, so i have gone for the last one ;-)
<a|wen> :)
<a|wen> how do you figure out what goes wrong with ld in such a case "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lMagick++"? 
<geser> a|wen: first check if libMagick++.so is available in /usr/lib (or /lib for some special libs)
<geser> if it's due to missing build-depends
<geser> if that's the case then the next step is: who is missing this build-dependency?  is it direct (the app using the lib itself) or if it's dragged in through an other lib (.la files or .pc files)
<a|wen> geser: okay; so that is how you get from the -l option to the filename ... hmm, it depends on libmagick++9-dev, provided by libmagick++-dev, which has the file
<a|wen> ahh, it actually complains about "Magick" ... libmagick++9-dev used to have /usr/bin/libMagick.so; it is now replaced/provided by libmagick++-dev which does neither have the file nor depend on a package with it
<a|wen> geser: do you know of any way to search for a file in jaunty (if you are not currently running it, then apt-file can of course be used)
<geser> packages.ubuntu.com :)
<mcnicholls> If i wanted to help clear the NBS but i am not a registered developer, would i do this by filing a bug report and getting sponsorship as with other bugs? 
<geser> mcnicholls: yes
<a|wen> ahh, great
<mcnicholls> geser: cheers
<a|wen> geser: thanks for pointing me in the right direction, it finally build :) ... for the record if you ever have a package FTBFS with a depends on libmagick++9-dev you might need to change it to graphicsmagick-libmagick-dev-compat
<geser> a|wen: that will only work for packages in universe.  what about libmagick++-dev?  doesn't it work with it? 
<a|wen> geser: not if it uses "Magick" features as well as "Magick++"
<a|wen> geser: /usr/lib/libMagick.so is only in graphicsmagick-libmagick-dev-compat in jaunty
<a|wen> geser: and the /usr/lib/libMagick.so.*  files which used to be in libmagick10 is no more
<fabrice_sp> Hi.  Should a package that depends on python2.5 (>= 2.5) be rebuilt to depend on python2.6 (>=2,6)?  or it's ok for Jaunty? 
<fabrice_sp> package is ekg (http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/ekg)
<geser> it would be good if we minimize the dependencies on python2.5
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: It should be rebuilt. 
<fabrice_sp> ok.  quadrispro let me thought it's ok.  I'll reactivate 2 bug reports I invalidated.  Thnaks
<Adri2000> could a backporter push forward bug #335692 please? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335692 in intrepid-backports "Please backport filezilla 3.2.2.1-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335692
<fatal_> Hi.. recently upgraded from Intrepid to Jaunty.  I'm seeing graphics corruption on Intel using compiz.... anyone know if there are any driver updates planned before the release? 
<maix> I've created a debdiff using this manual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff .  I had to use my gpg key for that.  Why? 
<directhex> maix, because debuild will sign a changes file by default, using the gpg key corresponding to the most recent entry in changelog
<maix> directhex: but for the debdiff is it not needed? 
<directhex> debdiff itself?  no. 
<maix> k
<ScottK> Pass -us -uc to debuild and then it won't sign the packages. 
<maix> I've created a debdiff now, is there anything else I can do or is the rest done by the maintainers? 
<directhex> indeedy, hence "by default"
<maix> yes that was mentioned in the guide
<ScottK> maix: Did you attach the debdiff to a bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug? 
<maix> I'm just about to attach it, but wanted to ask before submitting
<maix> it's main afaik
<directhex> did you remember to update-maintainer (if required)? 
<ScottK> Then it's ubuntu-main-sponsors. 
<maix> directhex: yes, but it was already ubuntu main devs
<maix> ScottK: ok
<maix> they'll contact me then? 
<maix> ah and when i'm here: check the patch checkbox for debdiffs? 
<maix> (and what's the use of that checkbox btw?) 
<maix> do I have to set the status to something?  in progress or so? 
<maix> directhex: ^
<directhex> just leave it be, IME
<maix> ok
<maix> directhex: one more question: when fetching the source (apt-get source), it told me that this package is maintained using svn and told me the url of some svn repo at debian.  is that important for this case? 
 * porthose hangs up his "gone fishin" sign ;-)
<directhex> maix, it can provide you access to more recent packaging work, where e.g. bugfixes may exist
<maix> hm it's just a little patch that has already been fixed in upstream and in other ubuntu releases
<wardi> I've tried to follow the FFe guidelines for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/urwid/+bug/343347  Would someone mind having a look and let me know if I'm missing anything? 
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 343347 in urwid "python-urwid segfaults on invalid keypress data" [Undecided,Fix released]
<nhandler> wardi: Why is the bug marked Fix released? 
<dennda> Hi.  Am I right assuming that universe is already frozen for jaunty?  That's not too clear from the release schedule...
<dennda> Ah I should read the /topic
<wardi> nhandler: I guess I misunderstood that.   The fix is in upstream (debian unstable)
<wardi> nhandler: what should I have it set to? 
<wardi> s/it/the bug status
<nhandler> The status should be New since no FFe has been granted yet
<wardi> ok
<nhandler> wardi: You will want to mention what testing you have done
<wardi> nhandler: "when the upload is done" confused me here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze for bug fix only updates (process agreed by motu-release)
<nhandler> wardi: I missed the part about bug fix only.  If that is the case, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
<wardi> nhandler: is updating the description or adding a comment preferred? 
<nhandler> For what? 
<nhandler> wardi: ^^^
<wardi> adding description of testing done
<nhandler> You can do that in a comment. 
<nhandler> Also attach a build log so that the MOTU that reviews it knows that it builds fine
<nhandler> But you do *not* need a FFe
<wardi> nhandler: ok, thanks :-)
<mcnicholls> hi
<wardi> nhandler: is a debian build log acceptable, or should I set up a jaunty chroot and rebuild? 
<mcnicholls> had a google, but can't seem to find what FTFBS stands for.  Can someone fill me in? 
<wardi> fails to build from source
<nhandler> wardi: A Debian build log will not work.  We need to know that it builds in Ubuntu.  If you don't have a Jaunty chroot, you can upload it to your PPA
<pochu> mcnicholls: you should try the 'wtf' binary :)
<wardi> nhandler: PPA? 
<nhandler> mcnicholls: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Abbreviations might also help
<nhandler> ! ppa | wardi
<ubottu> wardi: With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad.  See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart. 
<mcnicholls> pochu: hmmm not seen the wtf binary before ;-)
<eMerzh> If a MOTU have some time to review my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<mcnicholls> nhandler: cheers thats what i am looking for really
<pochu> mcnicholls: it will tell you what acronyms mean :) try $ wtf FTBFS
<nhandler> eMerzh: We are past Feature Freeze, the package will most likely not get uploaded until karmic
<mcnicholls> i am reading the NBS page on the wiki and it is down as FTFBS which hasn't helped lol
<mcnicholls> hmmmm even wtf FTBFS doesn't seem to work
<mcnicholls> but i can see it on the Abbreviations page
<eMerzh> nhandler: I know... but i want to be sure that nothing block the acceptation again .. it already missed jaunty .... :)
<nhandler> eMerzh: Ok, that is fine.  But just as a warning, most MOTUs will not be looking at REVU until the karmic repositories open up
<eMerzh> nhandler: ok, i'll wait :)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: setools uploaded.   Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu. 
<mcnicholls> if i was doing a rebuild to help remove an NBS package, in the example it says add build1 as ubuntu hasn't modified it, but what if ubuntu has all ready modified this package?  If it is ubuntu1 do you go for ubuntu2 even if it is just a straight rebuild? 
<Laney> yep
<mcnicholls> ok thanks.  also if i want to create a bug to attach the rebuilt debdiff too, i suppose i create that against the source package i am rebuilding?  Any particular format to create tat bug with? 
<Laney> just give it a decent title and description and attach the debdiff
<Laney> make sure it closes that bug
<mcnicholls> so i am looking at rebuilding libddm-1-0 to build against libempathy22 instead of 19.  So in the desktop-data-model source package i just create a bug something like "libddm-1-0 rebuild to remove libempathy19 dependancy" and attach my debdiff? 
<Laney> yep
<mcnicholls> and if i have the LP# in the change log then it will close it on build won't it? 
<Laney> * rebuild for foo (LP: #xxxxx)
<mcnicholls> thats the one
<mcnicholls> thanks.  thats a lot of questions, but want to get it right as these are the first things i have submitted
<Laney> no worries, it's good to ask
<mcnicholls> and if i subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsorship then some should come along and pick it up?  or do i need to do more than that? 
<ryanakca> Could someone take a look at bug 343380 please? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343380 in slingshot "Please sync slingshot 0.8.1p-2 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343380
<nhandler> ryanakca: I'll take a look
<Adri2000> ryanakca: why was the bug confirmed while not acked? 
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-15
<persia> ScottK: crimsun: This hasn't beeen *the* place to ask packaging questions (but rather one of many) since community-lucid-motu was approved "Developer Training: distribute".   This is still *a* place for packaging questions.   #ubuntu-packaging is mostly for new packaging, PPA packaging, derivative packaging, etc.  but similarly won't not answer questions about other things (although at least I'll redirect when soemthing is clearly about Ubuntu proc
<persia> esses or working with an Ubuntu team, etc.) 
<lfaraone> We don't need FFes for RC bug syncs, right? 
<ScottK> persia: None of that would make directing people away from here for packaging questions for Ubuntu appropriate, would it? 
<ScottK> lfaraone: If they also bring new features you do. 
<persia> ScottK: Indeed, no.   People asking questions about working on Ubuntu (whether packaging-related or not) should be answered ehre. 
<ScottK> persia: OK.   I don't know if you changed it or not, but /topic in that channel was confusing people. 
<lfaraone> persia: how often is http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ regenerated?  half the listed packages have already been synced. ( not that I'm complaining :P )
<persia> lfaraone: Last updated Mon Mar 15 15:39:58 2010
<freeflying> do you have any problem with dbus upgrade in lucid's schroot? 
<persia> Maybe it's targeting karmic stuff? 
<persia> lfaraone: See if http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/lucid/ more closely matches what you seek. 
<lfaraone> persia: aha. 
<persia> freeflying: I don't seem to have an old dbus installed in any of my lucid schroots.   I remember dbus being a prior problem because it starts a service that needs stopping prior to unmount. 
<lfaraone> ScottK: would any of http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mirage/mirage_0.9.3-5/changelog.html count as "new features"
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'd say no. 
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay, just checking. 
<freeflying> persia: i don't remember we have had similar issue before
<persia> freeflying: So, why do you have dbus (or any service, really) running inside the schroot? 
<freeflying> persia: I'm doing upgrade my lucid chroot
<persia> I understand.   Why is dbus in there? 
<freeflying> persia: afaik, dbus has disabled to restart service inside chroot
 * persia looks
<freeflying> persia: due to build dependency
<persia> Ah.   I understand.   I guess I don't encounter that by upgrading before installing build-deps. 
<persia> I didn't have any issues with the last upgrade on a running system. 
<lfaraone> nhandler: shouldn't the archive administrators be subscribed to bug 486807 since you ACK'd it? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486807 in ubuntu "Please sync groundcontrol 1.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486807
<nhandler> lfaraone: You need someone to ACK the actual sync request
<lfaraone> persia: ^^, you told me to ping you once we got ~ubuntu-release approval on 486807
<lfaraone> nhandler: so for a sync request with a FFe, you need ~ubuntu-release approval, ~ubuntu-*-sponsors approval, and then a manual push from an archive-admin? 
<nhandler> lfaraone: Basically, after FF, you need the release team's approval in addition to any other ack's that you would normally need
<persia> lfaraone: Cool.   If nobody else does, I'll upload it as soon as I'm done with the thing I'm in the middle of doing. 
<nhandler> persia: It is a sync
<persia> Oh, right. 
 * persia ACKs
<micahg> nhandler: you want to take another look at pidgin0microblog? 
<nhandler> micahg: Yeah, I guess I can
<nhandler> micahg: You will want to file a separate bug for the removal request
<micahg> nhandler: k
<micahg> nhandler: can I also ask you for Beta Freeze main upload exemtions? 
<micahg> *exemptions
<nhandler> micahg: Once you do that, I'll ACK them both.  You can get someone else to ACK the actual changes
<nhandler> micahg: For what? 
<micahg> nhandler: Firefox, Thunderbird, Xulrunner
<nhandler> micahg: Not until I review what the changes are. 
<micahg> nhandler: k, lets get this done, then I'll explain
<micahg> bug 530660 bug 538914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530660 in pidgin-microblog "[FFe] Replace pidgin-mbpurple with pidgin-microblog (was: package pidgin-microblog (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/purple-2/liboldtwitter.so', which is also..." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530660
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538914 in pidgin-mbpurple "[FFe] Remove pidgin-mbpurple from archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538914
<nhandler> micahg: ACK'd
<micahg> nhandler: so, subscribe ubuntu-archive now to the removal bug? 
<micahg> nhandler: you might want to remove u-u-s from the second bug
<nhandler> micahg: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages
<micahg> nhandler: it doesn't make any sense
<nhandler> micahg: Basically, it is the same process as a sync
<micahg> nhandler: I thought only archive admins can remove? 
<nhandler> micahg: Yes, but the request to remove needs to be approved by a dev
<micahg> nhandler: k
<RAOF> micahg: How's gjs going?   Do you want me to prod at it again, or do you have it under control? 
<persia> More generally, the archive-admins typically perform most functions on behalf of developers, so need to have some developer on behalf of which they are doing things. 
<micahg> RAOF: I haven't been able to pin down asac to discuss it yet, so you can have a shot at it if you want
<nhandler> That is true.  Most of their tools require them to specify the name of the developer who requested the change
<micahg> RAOF: otherwise, as soon as I know I'll update the bug
<RAOF> âWantâ is perhaps too strong a term. :) 
<RAOF> Ok.   I'll leave it with you. 
<micahg> RAOF: I figure you have more important stuff to work on :)
<nhandler> Night
<micahg> nhandler: you off? 
<nhandler> micahg: Yeah.  Hilight me if you need me to look at anything more, or send me a message.  I'll look at them tomorrow
<micahg> nhandler: ok, thanks
<nhandler> micahg: Keep up the great work
<micahg> nhandler: thanks :)
 * micahg needs to apply for MOTU when this cycle is over...
<micahg> persia: I would only need 1 Beta freeze exception if we had a mozilla package set :)
<persia> michas: Nothing stops you from applying for one. 
<micahg> persia: you said you were going to talk to asac about it
<persia> micahg: And the number of freeze exceptions you need is entirely unrelated to how many packages you can upload. 
<persia> *every* developer is subject to the release team. 
<micahg> persia: no, I would have uploaded 2 of them before the freeze :D
<persia> I did.   I explained the process, and pointed at the docs.   I don't know that he's done anything with this information. 
<micahg> persia: k, I'll follow up then
<directhex> anyone feel it's worth chasing freeze exceptions for http://pinta-project.com/ ? 
<persia> directhex: Probably not.   There's lots more useful work to be done, and that can get dropped in next cycle with very little pain. 
<dholbach> good morning
<abogani> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40935125/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.avr-libc_1%3A1.6.7-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
 * abogani waves
<abogani> I have a problem: the avr-libc package build perfectly in my KVM Lucid VM but it failed on LP (above link)
<abogani> Could anyone suggest me something? 
<geser> "sh: epstopdf: not found
<geser> "
<geser> the package is missing a build dependency on texlive-font-utils
<Rhonda> Ah yes, I think pgadmin3 might be a good candidate to sync again.  The new upstream release was just a bugfix release. 
<abogani> geser: I have totally missed it.  Thanks a lot!  Sorry for disturb! 
<\sh> zul: bug #531706 <- it's not a bug in zend-framework
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531706 in zend-framework "apache2 crashed with SIGSEGV in sapi_getenv()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531706
<bdrung> persia, TheMuso: my membership in u-u-s expires, can you renew it? 
<lifeless> should be able to renew that one yourself
<TheMuso> bdrung: Afaik things are being changed atm, I am not sure what team has taken over.  I have been meaning to withdraw my admin powers recently actually. 
<lifeless> but yeah there is only one sponsor team now AIUI
<dholbach> yes
<bdrung> renewing the membership by myself is not possible.  according to the mail i have to contact one of you. 
<dholbach> bdrung: let me add you to ubuntu-sponsors
<dholbach> I just updated the documentation
<bdrung> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> if somebody could check out https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dholbach/ubuntu-dev-tools/permissions-reorg/+merge/21355 - that'd be nice :)
<geser> dholbach: is there a reason why you proposed a merge of your ubuntu-dev-tools branch instead of simply merging them? 
<dholbach> geser: oh, that's how I do it in other projects
<dholbach> we peer-review everything there
<geser> dholbach: the changes look good.  It's unrelated to your changes but the paragraph about sponsorship could use some rewording as requestsync now checks upload permissions instead of simply team membership. 
<dholbach> geser: I just pushed my changes now - do you think it's worth filing a bug about the doc changes? 
<geser> yes please, so it doesn't get forgotten
<dholbach> done
<dholbach> bug 538990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538990 in ubuntu-dev-tools "paragraph about sponsorship could use some rewording" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538990
<dholbach> DktrKranz, lucas: I uploaded a new ubuntu-dev-tools - do you think you could get it into debian too? 
<DktrKranz> dholbach: sure thing
<dholbach> DktrKranz: awesome - but it's still sitting in the queue
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=dev-tools
<DktrKranz> oh, indeed.  here it explains I haven't seen it :)
<dholbach> :-)
<DktrKranz> it's not a problem per-se, as I merge from bzr anyway
<dholbach> ok, gotcha
<persia> DktrKranz: Just FYI: none of my foreign-chroot stuff currently works in Debian.   I'm hoping it *will* work at some point in the future, but at that point it will need specific divergence in Debian from Ubuntu.   Any suggestions on where to push that if I can make it work? 
<DktrKranz> dholbach: I'll push it in a couple of days, I'd like to finish some dak coding first, does it sounds good? 
<DktrKranz> persia: u-d-t already has some divergences (basically for python-apt 0.8 API), we can probably add some specific checks (lsb_release based) as mvo and I did for gdebi
<persia> DktrKranz: Oh, right.   lsb_release is probably the solution for the actual scripts.   I'll also want to add a substvar for Suggests:
<persia> And with those bits it won't need divergence for my work. 
<persia> Thanks for the guidance. 
<Rhonda> I'd like to ask for a freeze exception for pgadmin3.  The new upstream version is a bugfix release.  How to proceed? 
<Riddell> Rhonda: if it's only a bugfix and there's no features, you don't need a feature freeze exception
<persia> Rhonda: Does it build & run in lucid? 
<Rhonda> persia: I would expect so, yes. 
<Rhonda> Riddell: Well, it's still a new upstream version, so it might have to follow that process to make that clear. 
<persia> Rhonda: Really, you don't need an exception if it's bugfix only.   Also, the person who first said you didn't is one of the release managers, so even if you did, you just got an IRC ACK, which is considered acceptable. 
<Rhonda> Oh, didn't know that.  :D
<Rhonda> So â¦ what's needed then?  Regular sync request? 
<persia> Yep. 
<persia> Extra points for actually testing build/run on lucid :)
<Rhonda> Bug #539061 - hope I did it right. :) 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539061 in pgadmin3 "Please sync pgadmin3 1.10.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539061
<persia> Looks right to me
<persia>  /s is arguably a minor feature, but not likely one that would affect any other software, or even most users by default. 
<Rhonda> It's in documentation parts only so it doesn't affect anything.  I just put it in because lintian compl^Hhintend and I didn't notice it earlier. ;) 
<persia>  /s is only documentation : it actually worked before? 
<Rhonda> Yes. 
<persia> heh.   that's not clear from the upsteam changelog, but means it *definitely* didn't need FFe :)
<Rhonda> Once in the manpage, twice in the changelog, twice in the NEWS file. 
<Rhonda> Erm, wait. 
<Rhonda> What are you refering to with /s? 
<Rhonda> Oh, that one. 
<persia> 2010-01-10 GL 1.10.2 Select the server choosen with the /s command-line argument. 
<Rhonda> Right, found it. 
<Rhonda> Darn year change, makes the diff from 1.10.1 to 1.10.2 unreadable with changes of "2002 - 2009" to "2002 - 2010"  %-(
<duanedesign> persia: while reviewing patches i found a submitted patch that has already been applied upstream.  i assume that bringing in the new revisioin is preferable to applying the patch downstream? 
<persia> duanedesign: Depends on the bug.   If it's critical, and the new upstream would break FF, and there's not enough reason for an FFe, then cherrypicking is fine. 
<nigelb> duanedesign: depends on the patch
<nigelb> bah, too slow
<persia> duanedesign: In most cases, we'd just wait for upstream to come naturally. 
<duanedesign> yeah its not a critical bug.  Thank you
<dupondje> somebody else also noticed the translation bugs in gnome-power-manager?  Seems some items are not translated
<dpm> dupondje, I haven't noticed any.  It might be that the translation team for your language has not yet finished the translation.  If the translation is complete and there are still untranslated strings, I'd recommend you to file a bug in the ubuntu-translations project (adding a bug task for gnome-power-manager) -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+filebug
<dupondje> dpm: there was a translation bug that I fixed upstream, but everything in the po file was fine, seems like it just didn't got translated
<dpm> dupondje, can you point me to the upstream bug?  I can have a look if you like
<dupondje> well it was just a translation error I fixed, this got into 10.04 already, the translation was correct for the rest.  But seems still some untranslated items
<dupondje> like when you click on the icon, it tells me 'laptop-accu is charged'
<dupondje> while it should be translated :p
<dupondje> in the overview: Status: fully-charged
<dupondje> Tijd tot vol: xx seconds => seconds = english imo :D
<Rhonda> BlackZ: You confuse me. :) 
<BlackZ> Rhonda: ? 
<Rhonda> BlackZ: pgadmin3, we discussed it in here and I was told that sync request is appropriate. :) 
<BlackZ> Rhonda: u-p-a was not subscribed, btw it's ok now
<Rhonda> What's u-p-a?  The website says u-s
 * Rhonda starts to wonder if BlackZ is the confused person here or me. :) 
 * persia is curious about u-p-a as well, never having heard that term. 
<BlackZ> Rhonda: I mean ubuntu package archive - btw, it was just an misunderstanding
<Rhonda> I'm not a ubuntu developer, even when Mark says that from time to time, so I need to use u-s.  :)
<nigelb> If a packages does not build properly in karmic (broken dependencies) and fixed in Lucid with a new package, worth an SRU? 
<nigelb> or should it go into backports? 
<nigelb> bug 452845 - this issue is fixed with the new epiphany-extensions-more that was synced in Lucid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452845 in epiphany-extensions-more "epiphany-extensions-more is not up to date in Karmic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452845
<persia> nigelb: It's worth an SRU if (and only if) the patch can be cherrypicked. 
<persia> nigelb: And backports are not for bugfixes. 
<nigelb> persia: nope.   Its a completely new package
<persia> Yeah, that's not good for SRU. 
<nigelb> epiphany stopped using python based extensions in favor of javascript based ones
<nigelb> so the new package is entirely new
<dupondje> "ngettext minute minutes 10"
<dupondje> this should give translated output right ? 
<nigelb> so this package can have a backport to karmic? 
<BlackZ> Rhonda: sorry btw for the bug, just a mistake - and yes, you're right, if you aren't an ubuntu developer you must subscribe u-u-s. I had marked it as "Incomplete" because I tought it hasn't an FFE
<Rhonda> BlackZ: No big deal, and don't take it anywhere personally, it just considered funny. :) 
<dpm> dupondje, I can see the "is charged" untranslated string, yes.  It might be that we have to wait for the next language pack after the beta.  If they still appear untranslated, I'd recommend you to comment it on the ubuntu-translators mailing list or file a bug
<dupondje> dpm: I'm checking the code atm, like the '10 minutes' is translated with ngettext, but if I run 'ngettext minute minutes 10' in console, it doesn't get translated ...
<Rhonda> BlackZ: I am just trying to find my way into it, and even though I might sound like I know quite a bit I'm still new. :) 
<Rhonda> â¦ on this side of the sea, that is. 
<dpm> dupondje, 'ngettext -d gnome-power-manager minute minutes 2' works for me (I get Â«minutsÂ»)
<BlackZ> Rhonda: all can make a mistake.  Aren't you agree? 
<Rhonda> BlackZ: Of course, in the meantime it is even allowed to think that the sabdfl can make a mistake. :) 
<dupondje> dpm: indeed, seems to work here also with domain set
<BlackZ> Rhonda: I'm saying I'm wrong, not sabdfl ;)
<BlackZ> however, I think we can stop this discussion. 
<dupondje> but where is the 'domain' set in the code ? 
<persia> BlackZ: Also, FF isn't about version numbers: it's about features.   Depending on upstream's release policies and procedures, it's possible to have new upstream without new features, and depending on the nature of random patches, it's possible to have feature changes without new upstreams. 
<dpm> dupondje, in C apps using autotools, like g-p-m, it is generally set in the build system in configure.ac or Makefile.am (can't remember which one right now), as GETTEXT_PACKAGE.  Then this gets substituted in the code, generally in the initialisation code, as a parameter to bindtextdomain or a similar gettext function
<duanedesign> persia: havent had much luck reviewing patches.  do you have a minute to help me? 
<persia> duanedesign: Sure. 
<dpm> dupondje, here it is -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-power-manager/lucid/annotate/head%3A/src/gpm-main.c#L182
<dpm> defined here -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-power-manager/lucid/annotate/head%3A/configure.ac#L103
<duanedesign> persia: i found a couple new reports that are fails to build that have patches attached.  But the op already made a debdif as well.  Not sure what more i could do on those. 
<persia> duanedesign: Were the patch posters also following other Ubuntu Development guidelines, or were they folks you often see about? 
<duanedesign> persia: the poster has submitted 3 in the last few days.  1 has been 'uploaded'
<duanedesign> bug 538386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538386 in muinescrobbler "[FTBFS] muinescrobbler fails to build in Lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538386
<Rhonda> persia: Especially the postgres people are extremely good examples with respect to good release management in that respect, and pgadmin3 isn't too far off from that. :) 
<hyperair> hmmm unified ubuntu-sponsors team eh?  so how do i know what i can sponsor and what i can't? 
<dupondje> dpm: thx, the function to get the translation is here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-power-manager/lucid/annotate/head%3A/src/gpm-common.c
<dupondje> but it doesn't seem to translate it somehow
<persia> Rhonda: Indeed.   There's a few bugs against pgadmin I've noticed marked as "Fixed in 1.12" which I find especially nice. 
<directhex> duanedesign, FWIW, the patch looks correct to my eye
<persia> hyperair: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring
<persia> hyperair: Please file bugs to make that better (submitting branches speeds the process)
<dpm> dupondje, I still don't know what the issue is, though.  What's the exact problem?  Which particular string is not getting translated?  Is there a bug for it somewhere? 
<persia> duanedesign: Since those are all getting subscribed to sponsors, etc.,  I'd recommend just unsubscribing the review team. 
<nigelb> persia: a documentation fail perhaps? 
<persia> duanedesign: Essentially, we walk a thin line between helping make sure we don't lose patches and not getting in the way of developers using launchpad for workflow support. 
<nigelb> persia: ah, the script is causing a slight havoc
<persia> nigelb: overanxious script, I think. 
<Rhonda> persia: 1.12??   *goestocheck*
<nigelb> persia: this is when people force lp to accept debdiffs as patch, IMHO that is not needed
<dupondje> dpm: in the overview you have 'Time to full: xxx seconds' translated it should be 'Tijd tot vol: xxx seconden' but it shows 'Tijd tot vol: xxx seconds' the 'seconds' aren't translated
<duanedesign> persia: kk
<persia> nigelb: But it *is* a patch.   Works with `patch`, `bzr patch`, etc. 
<persia> nigelb: So for any sane file management tool, it is indistinguishable from any other patch (run file against one sometime). 
<persia> nigelb: That LP happens to be currently broken is a different issue.   I'm not convinced that these deserve the "patch" tag though. 
<nigelb> persia: it is, it is, but this is only a workaround until the script it fixed
<Rhonda> persia: Ah, the ipv6 part, found it. :) 
<nigelb> persia: you mean debdiffs should also come under the purview of reviewers? 
<dpm> dupondje, I cannot see any reference to seconds in that file.  Do you mind the "%i minutes" and hours in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-power-manager/lucid/annotate/head%3A/src/gpm-common.c#L57, for example? 
<dpm> Do you _mean_, I meant
<persia> nigelb: Whether a patch is a debdiff is irrelevant.   Whether the patch submitter is participating in Ubuntu Development is relevant.   Random patches, even in debdiff format, not being tracked by developers need patch review.   Stuff in the sponsors queue doesn't. 
<abogani> The workflow for build PPA packages is the same for official packages, right?  Sorry for stupid question but I have a package that build perfectly in PPA but not in my pbuilder env. 
<nigelb> persia: bah, forget earlier comment.   I misread what you wrote
<dupondje> dpm: now thats weird, it really outputs for example 0 seconds ...
<dpm> dupondje, then perhaps it is a bug and it is not marked for translation in the code...
<james_w> abogani: hi, are you looking at the avr-libc build failure? 
<abogani> james_w: Exactly. 
<persia> abogani: The chroots in the PPAs should be similar to the chroots in the Ubuntu environment, I believe.   pbuilder can be very different.   The most common cause of issues is a requirement for network access during build. 
<james_w> abogani: heh, sorry, didn't notice you had just asked a question :-)
<dupondje> its just weird where it gets the seconds from :)
<dupondje> heh
<abogani> james_w: I should fill a new bug report or it is a  "bzr push" enough? 
<james_w> it's an odd error
<james_w> abogani: push it and request a merge again please
<dpm> dupondje, might be somewhere else in the code, I've tried "ngettext -d gnome-power-manager "%d second" "%d seconds" 1" and that gives me translated output
<dupondje> dpm: found
<dupondje> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-power-manager/lucid/annotate/head%3A/src/gpm-statistics.c
<dupondje> function gpm_stats_time_to_text
<abogani> james_w: done.  Sorry for my mistake. 
<james_w> abogani: no problem, it happens
<dpm> dupondje, ok, does 'ngettext -d gnome-power-manager "%d second" "%d seconds" 1' give you localized output? 
<dupondje> yes :)
<dupondje> return g_strdup_printf ("%.0f seconds", value); => return g_strdup_printf ( ngettext ("%.0f second","%.0f seconds",value), value);
<dupondje> something like that ? :) 
<dupondje> dpm: made upstream bug, gnome is still synced from upstream atm ? 
<dpm> dupondje, if I'm not mistaken, yes, until 2.30.1 and sometimes .2
<dpm> dupondje, could you point me to the bug?  I'd be interested to subscribe and follow it
<dupondje> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612950
<ubottu> Gnome bug 612950 in gnome-power-manager "Function gpm_stats_time_to_text does not translate text" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<dpm> dupondje, awesome, thanks
<directhex> hyperair, did you 0ubuntu1 b-c-e?  i spy a james_w and we could smile sweetly at him to do some archive-adminning
<dupondje> dpm: the other translation issue is related to DeviceKit-Power
<dupondje> seems there are no translations there ?! 
<dpm> dupondje, hmm, I'd have to check, I don't remember any of our team has translated DeviceKit-Power upstream, perhaps it is not yet set up for translations? 
<ryanakca> Could someone take a look at bug 538283 please? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538283 in turnin-ng "Please merge turnin-ng 1.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538283
<dupondje> dpm: seems they 'fixed' it, but not correctly :p
<dpm> dupondje, oh, they were quick! 
<hyperair> directhex: sorry my hands are tied. 
<hyperair> directhex: if you feel like handling it, please do so. 
<hyperair> directhex: oh yeah, could you clarify the copyright of the icon, please? 
<hyperair> directhex: the ubuntuone.png icon
<Spirits-Sight> anyone in here that good with connecting CE device to Ubuntu to see it as a storage device? 
<bobbbo> hello everyone! 
<crimsun> thank goodness for tmpfs-mounted /var/cache/pbuilder/build
<RAOF> crimsun: *Yes*
<ramiro> hi
<psusi> dang it, what was the program to install build dependencies needed to build a package? 
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-16
<ramiro> after running dh_make, editing debian/*, and dpkg-buildpackage, I get a bunch of files like the original source and a diff.  but sometimes that creates different tarballs, sometimes only a diff (like when building a -2 package) and sometimes it creates a whole new source tarball even when only building a -2 package.  what documentation can I read that explains all those files created and which ones I should have on the repo? 
<directhex> ramiro, it depends on a few things
<directhex> ramiro, firstly, the presence of an orig tarball with proper naming
<directhex> ramiro, so if you have a source package "foo" version 1.0 which uses the name "foo" version 1.0-1 in debian/changelog, then the orig should be named foo_1.0.orig.tar.gz
<directhex> ramiro, anything you fiddle which isn't as found in that orig will go into a diff.gz file foo_1.0-1.diff.gz - you should try to ensure the diff.gz only contains the debian/ folder
<directhex> ramiro, if there's no orig, then instead of orig.tar.gz and diff.gz, you only get a single tarball (this is called a native package and is used when ubuntu is upstream)
<ramiro> mika_video: but when I run dh_make -f origsource shouldn't it already create a proper foo_1.0.orig.tar.gz ? 
<ramiro> oops, wrong reference, that was meant to directhex
<ramiro> ah, so that's what a native package is...
<ramiro> so then if I have orig, I should put foo_1.0.orig.tar.gz and foo_1.0-1.diff.gz on the repo.  if it's a native package (which I don't think is my need), I should put foo_1.0-1.tar.gz on the repo.  right? 
<directhex> ramiro, right. 
<ramiro> directhex: thanks, that made things much clearer. 
<ramiro> "has no source override entry".  what is an override file and why do I need one?  I read the documentation but I'm not convinced I need it. 
<persia> ramiro: Could you give a little more context? 
<ramiro> oops, I cut out the most important chunks of the paste. 
<ramiro> "apt-ftparchive sources  .  /dev/null > /dev/null" prints out a bunch of "%s has no source override entry" and "%s has no source override entry either" to stderr. 
<persia> Oh, that's just because there's no override files in your archive. 
<persia> You can ignore that if you're not using overrides. 
<ramiro> great, but is there any way to supress the message?  it prints even with -q
<ramiro> sure, I could 2>/dev/null, but I'd rather have the other error messages if they do exist. 
<persia> Use overrides?   Don't use apt-ftparchive on sources? 
<lifeless> if you don't use overrides at all, I think its totally quiet about them, from memory
<persia> For binaries, I'm sure that's true.   I'm less sure about sources. 
<lifeless> if its not true, you could patch it
<ramiro> it only prints for the sources, not for "packages" nor "release"
<psusi> I've used dpatch before... but this package appears to be using another system... it has a patches directory with a series file in it and normal .patch files... what system is that and how can I create a new patch with that system? 
<RAOF> what-patch will tell you what patch system the package is using, and edit-patch will Do The Right Thing (I think)
<persia> psusi: Run `what-patch` for a best guess.   Run `edit-patch` to use automation to guess the system. 
<psusi> hrm... quilt eh?   hrm.  I thought that was an RCS
<psusi> hrm... so once I'm done editing, what's the command to save the patch?   dpatch used to spawn a sub shell you just exited from, this doesn't seem to do that
<persia> psusi: /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source has some guidance on usage. 
<persia> ! patchsystems
<persia> ! patch
<ubottu> Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.   There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines. 
<persia> The PatchSystems page has some more
<krisives> hi, i'm a Compiz developer, and as you may know in our new 0.9 we've moved from C to C++, and libboost is required.  How does Ubuntu plan to work with this? 
<ScottK> krisives: We already have boost. 
<ScottK> 1.40 is our default for the next Lucid release. 
<krisives> it comes on the CD? 
<ScottK> I'm not 100% sure.   OOo uses it. 
<ScottK> It is in Main, so it's not a problem. 
<krisives> I know there have been some space issues, is there any luck of moving away from the 700Mb CD and towards a 4.5G distro? 
<StevenK> krisives: Ubuntu also produces DVD images
<ScottK> krisives: The core distro will stay CD sized. 
<krisives> Any idea how big boost is ? 
<persia> krisives: The CD requirement is unlikely to change in the medium-term, in part due to comparative mass-production rates for the two media. 
<krisives> I see, thanks persia :D
<krisives> You're everywhere! 
<krisives> even though our 0.9 code didn't make it into the LTS, is it possible for it to go into Lucid+1 ? 
<krisives> or is that not possible because of it being an LTS? 
<ScottK> krisives: I'm not sure how it works for Compiz, but most of the boost using packages carry a runtime depends on only a small part of the total boost package. 
<ScottK> Some don't have any runtime depends at all, just build time. 
<persia> lucid+1 isn't LTS, and if you've released, 0.9 can probably drop during the open archive window. 
 * StevenK is trying to work out how large boost is
<krisives> Thanks for the help guys
<persia> StevenK: large, but broken into many little bits. 
<StevenK> persia: Yes, I'm adding the little bits together
<ScottK> krisives: Potentially the biggest issue will be to keep so you can build with the newer versions.   This is sometims non-trivial. 
<persia> But the key bit is that the vast majority of clients only need some of the little bits. 
<krisives> yeah we're looking at it right now to see what we depend on in terms of boost
<StevenK> There.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/395942/
<StevenK> Don't look too close, your eyes will bleed
<ScottK> That goes with the territory with boost. 
<ScottK> How cute, it even follows the units policy. 
<krisives> I don't know boost very well, can you guys tell me what we might depend on with this http://paste.ubuntu.com/395943/
<persia> The nice thing about boost is that building it is a nice stress test for memory management systems. 
<krisives> I just did some grepping for #include related to boost
<StevenK> I think that's all core
<persia> StevenK: One of these days you need to learn awk :p
<StevenK> persia: I'm going to keep my tr and sed skills and love them.  So nyah
<krisives> I actually did that with the Search feature :(
<krisives> oh btw we finally are documenting our API
<krisives> and the switch from C to C++ has made plugin development sane with a clean abstraction
<jayvee> fabrice_sp: should there really be a debian/gbp.conf file? 
<fabrice_sp> jayvee, sorry? 
<jayvee> fabrice_sp: I'm working on the tahoe-lafs package.  Working on cleaning it up like you gave me pointers. 
<jayvee> Just found this 'gbp.conf' file, which is kinda weird
<jayvee> it starts with [git-buildpackage], and it has karmic hardcoded in it
<jayvee> although I didn't think it was versioned in git
<jayvee> so that leads me to think it's just cruft
<fabrice_sp> seems like it, yes.  Let me check where it can come from
<fabrice_sp> (or you can ask original packager)
<fabrice_sp> you're right: it seems to be some git configuration file
<fabrice_sp> "Git-buildpackage can be configured in a per-repository .gbp.conf, which must not be included in the package sources." 
<fabrice_sp> taken from http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501243
<ubottu> Debian bug 501243 in git-buildpackage "git-buildpackage: please support `git config` options instead of .gbp.conf" [Wishlist,Open]
<fabrice_sp> jayvee, ^
<jayvee> fabrice_sp: I guess I'm wondering, is it safe to delete? 
<fabrice_sp> jayvee, yes :-)
<jayvee> cool
<wzssyqa> hi,i use dh_makeshlibs  and dh_installdeb,but it don't genrate postinst and postrm for a share lib installed to /usr/lib
<ejat> hi .. after i debuild -S -k<mykey>
<ejat> i dput to my ppa .. but it not uploading the source file ..
<ejat> why its happend and how to counter it ? 
<persia> ejat: What error do you get? 
<lifeless> ejat: what do you mean 'not uploading the source file''
<ejat> lifeless: yes
<ejat> persia: no error
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/396008/
<dholbach> good morning
<ejat> morning
<persia> ejat: What's missing? 
<ejat> Unable to find dbmail_2.2.15.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution. 
<persia> Oh, you want -sa then. 
<StevenK> ejat: Craft your .changes using -sa
<ejat> previously if i do the dput .. it will upload the source
<ejat> StevenK: debuild again with -sa ? 
<ejat> not with -S
<StevenK> ejat: Both
<ejat> debuild -S -sa
 * ejat trying ..
<wzssyqa> hi,i use dh_makeshlibs  and dh_installdeb,but it don't genrate postinst and postrm for a share lib installed to /usr/lib
<ejat> StevenK: i just redo using -S -sa .. but then .. im getting this http://paste.ubuntu.com/396010/
<wzssyqa> ejat: you need to remove a upload file
<ejat> wzssyqa: how to remove .. its not visible at launchpad
<wzssyqa> in the same dir with orig.tar.gz
<wzssyqa> ejat: it is used by dput
<wzssyqa> ejat: just del it
<wzssyqa> ejat: or you can increase your version in changelog
<ejat> wzssyqa: i follow here https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors :)
<ejat> delete the log
<ejat> thanks StevenK its work ... upload with the source
<ejat> how do i build for karmic if inside the changelog already build for lucid ? 
<persia> Change the changelog
<persia> (or mangle the .changes file between creation and signing, but this may require other hacks, and may break things)
<ejat> just change the changelog .. then rebuild it back ..
<ejat> is it will conflict the source file that i already upload ? 
<ejat> or can i just copy the binary from lucid to karmic ?  or is it not recommended
<jayvee> ejat: use "debchange -i"
<jayvee> and on the top changelog entry, just change lucid to karmic
<jayvee> and add a ~ppa1 at the end of the version that it puts on
<ejat> owk ok .. so it will be karmic~ppa1
<jayvee> nope
<jayvee> put a ~ppa1 on the end of the version
<jayvee> so if the version is 1.0-2ubuntu5
<ejat> owh ok .. get it
<jayvee> make it 1.0-2ubuntu5~ppa1
<ejat> ok ..
<ejat> then after finish build the karmic .. then change it back to lucid ? 
 * persia recommends +ppa1 like it says in the versioning guide in the PPA docs. 
<jayvee> persia: last time I read the docs they used ~ppa1, but that was a long time ago
<persia> Yes, it was changed. 
<jayvee> ejat: depends on whether you want the package to be available to karmic or lucid users
<jayvee> ejat: if you want it to be available to both, you'll have to upload two versions, one for karmic and one for lucid
<jayvee> at least I think so
<ejat> ok thanks jayvee n persia
<jayvee> the way people do it is they add a ~ppa1 for the latest (e.g. lucid), and then for the "earlier" ones, they add things like ~ppa1~karmic
<persia> The discussion about PPA mechanics is more appropriate for #launchpad, but in many cases uploading to karmic and copying to lucid works fine. 
<jayvee> or +ppa1~karmic, as persia points out
<ejat> persia: so i better do the copying :)
<ejat> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40997035/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.nagiosql_3.0.3-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz .. who can help me with this failed :(
<persia> ejat: Missing build-dependencies.   Did you try with pbuilder or sbuild first? 
<wzssyqa> how to edit 'LINKFLAGS' to add version to the end of .so file? 
<ejat> owh .. forget .. persia .. so i need to test it with pbuilder then if ok .. then upload to ppa ? 
<ejat> make: dpatch: Command not found
<persia> That's usually easier to track down, because it's local. 
<ejat> persia: ic .. so its miss the dpatch ? 
<persia> Something like that. 
<ejat> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/396048/
<ejat> added the dpatch in control ..
<ejat> but its still occurs ..
<persia> Try adding something like `dpkg -l dpatch` in your rules to make sure it's getting installed. 
<persia> Obviously, you need to call this *before* you call dpatch
<ejat> persia: so i need to add 'dpkg -l dpatch' before this http://paste.ubuntu.com/396052/
<persia> No, but doing so may help you track down the issue. 
<ejat> add just for tracking is it ? 
<persia> something went wrong in your build.   It looked like missing dpatch.   You added dpatch, and it still appears to be missing.   You're just following that line of investigation. 
<persia> Nothing here is long-term useful except insofar as it helps you to understand the issue so you can fix it. 
<ejat> just wanna double check with u for the control file : http://paste.ubuntu.com/396055/
<ejat> shows that i already include the dpatch rite? 
<persia> ejat: Build-Depends ! = Depends
<jayvee> _ruben: ice cold coca cola
<jayvee> love it!  <3
 * jayvee wishes he thought of that
<persia> ? 
<jayvee> read his ipv6 address
<persia> heh. 
<Laney> Is it usual to add Provides: when renaming a binary package? 
<jayvee> I thought they usually just do Conflicts: and Replaces:. 
<Rhonda> If there are reverse dependencies, yes. 
<Laney> For users to be upgraded to the new package
<Rhonda> But it's also usual to provide a transitional package for upgrades. 
<Rhonda> Laney: Provides doesn't help with upgrades, it helps with reverse dependencies.  Empty transitional packages help with upgrades. 
<Laney> is this because Provides are unversioned? 
<Rhonda> No. 
<Rhonda> Provides aren't considered for any upgrade handling. 
<Laney> alright
<persia> Well, that's not strictly true : it's more complicated. 
<persia> Provides: can be considered if e.g. you have something that conflicts with something on which something else has a dependency and the Provides: satisfies that dependency, but that's a corner case, and there's lots of better ways to do it. 
<Rhonda> persia: I mentioned reverse-dependencies. :) 
<persia> Indeed you did.   Everything before "Provides aren't considered for any upgrade handling" was 100% correct.   update-manager tries to be too smart sometimes. 
<_ruben> jayvee ;)
<duanedesign> persia: have not had much luck in reviewing patches and finding something to work on.   Do you have a minute or two to help me? 
<persia> duanedesign: Sure. 
<persia> duanedesign: That was your cue to ask a more detailed question :)
<duanedesign> persia: thank you.  I have been anxious to get started llearning the MOTU ropes, i just havent had much luck finding tasks to do
<persia> OK.   What sort of thing do you like to do? 
<duanedesign> persia: i have done a few simple patches and I have packaged a thing or two.  But other than that i am pretty in the dark
<persia> OK.   Some of the things that would be helpful now are patch review, RCbugs, unmetdeps, FTBFS
<persia> Any of those sound interesting, or do you need more definition of terms? 
<duanedesign> what are Release Candidate Bugs? 
<persia> So, Ubuntu is derived from Debian.   The Debian developers fix a lot of bugs.   Some of these are considered "Release Critical" in Debian. 
<duanedesign> persia: ahh lol, I shouldnt of asumed i knew what RC stood for
<persia> There's a tool that scans the differences between Debian and Ubuntu, and references any bugs that Debian closed as Release Critical, but don't appear to have been merged into Ubuntu yet. 
<persia> So RC bugs is a mix of merges, syncs, and cherrypicking of the bugfixes from Debian to make sure they are included in the Ubuntu release. 
<duanedesign> persia: ok.  sounds good
<persia> duanedesign: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/lucid/ is the list for lucid. 
<persia> Each one needs to be reviewed to 1) verify the bug affects lucid, 2) verify it's not fixed in lucid, 3) decide whether it's a sync, a merge, or a cherrypick, and 4) get the fix in or comment that it's not needed. 
<duanedesign> persia: ok great! 
<persia> Start with the "grave" ones, and then the "serious" once once you've passed through as much "grave" as you can. 
<persia> If you don't understand a bug, ask here.   If nobody helps you, check the next one :)
<duanedesign> persia: whats a cherrypick? 
<nigelb> duanedesign: just get the particular patch that fixes the bug into ubuntu :)
<nigelb> if the package uses a patch management system like quilt, it might be easy to figure out the patch
<persia> Right.   This is often important if the Debian upload contains 4-5 different things, we want one of them, and another of them would break a freeze. 
<duanedesign> ok i know what a sync is, that is to sync the version in Ubuntu to match upstream.  Whats a merge? 
<tseliot> persia: do you know why we have gtg_0.2.3.orig.tar.gz and gtg_0.2.3-1.debian.tar.gz for gtg in Lucid?  And above all which one am I supposed to modify if I want to fix the code? 
<persia> tseliot: Because it's source format 3.0.   Just dpkg-source -x the .dsc as usual. 
<persia> duanedesign: A merge is when there are important patches in Ubuntu that we want to preserve, and also changes in Debian we want.   One needs to construct a source package that contains the best of both. 
<tseliot> persia: yes, that's what I did.  I added my fix too (which involved adding a new directory).  Which tarball am I supposed to rebuild? 
<persia> duanedesign: Personally, I find cherrypicks and syncs easier : why not start with those (avoiding the packages that have -XubuntuY revisions), and once you've cleared those, start looking at merges. 
<lfaraone> Is anybody else having issues with fiordland.canonical.com for requestsync? 
<persia> tseliot: You build a source package with `debuild -S` (or similar), which should do the right thing. 
<duanedesign> persia: nice.  thanks for the tip
<wzssyqa> is it a big problem that have a symbol link of share lib that without version
<lfaraone> persia: we don't care about syncing ftbfs fixes on armel, do we? ( I don't think we're releasing armel)
<tseliot> persia: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/396139/
<persia> lfaraone: I'd like us to care, because it increases the chances I can upgrade my Netwalker to lucid :)
<persia> tseliot: Are you using lucid to build the source? 
<tseliot> persia: yes, sure
<persia> Did you use quilt to apply the patch? 
<highvoltage> hmm... where's keybuk when you want to compliment him
<tseliot> persia: no, I guess that's the problem.  I was hoping to rebuild the source and make a debdiff
<persia> tseliot: Right, but it's format 3.0 (quilt), so you have to apply the patch with quilt. 
<persia> Once you've done that, debdiff ought do the right thing. 
<tseliot> persia: ok, I'll do that, thanks
<lfaraone> persia: hm.  I'm having some issues when trying to build ams-2.0.1-2, "The following packages have unmet dependencies: ... Depends: ladspa-sdk, fftw-dev, sfftw-dev, libclalsadrv-dev (>= 1.0.1-3) which is a virtual package." 
<persia> lfaraone: On armel? 
<jayvee> I've been told to fix this debian/watch file, and I'm having a little trouble with the regular expression.  Normally tarballs have a (.*)\.tar\.gz on the end, but tahoe-lafs has a "1.6.1-SUMO" release, which uscan thinks is the latest version. ( SUMO is a version that contains dependency cruft, so should be excluded.) 
<lfaraone> persia: on amd64 :)
<jayvee> I can use ([\.0-9]+)\.tar\.gz on the end, but if they decide to release something like 1.6.1b, it won't pick that up. 
<lfaraone> pbuilder doesn't seem to like it's deps. 
<persia> jayvee: man uscan : look for the uversionmangle option
<persia> lfaraone: You have universe enabled? 
<jayvee> persia: awesome! 
<jayvee> opts="uversionmangle=s/-SUMO//"
<jayvee> works brilliantly
<lfaraone> persia: probably. 
<persia> lfaraone: Because I can install fftw-dev on my local amd64 system without issue (just tested). 
<lfaraone> persia: ah, I was missing htat. 
<lfaraone> persia: once I do https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Universe%20support, do I need to rebuild the chroot? 
<persia> lfaraone: But don't forget to check for outstanding bugs : bug $538060 may interest you
<persia> Err, bug #538060
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538060 in ams "FTBFS on armel (sync)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538060
<jayvee> is it possible to do uversionmangle and dversionmangle in the same line? 
<jayvee> in the same opts="", I mean
<jayvee> the man page is suspiciously vague on that matter
<persia> jayvee: Most certainly
<lfaraone> persia: we can't sync packages that depend on iceweasel, right? ( we need to merge the changes)
<persia> Check with mozillateam, but that's my understanding. 
<directhex> persia, would a Provides: iceweasel really be an issue? 
<persia> directhex: Check with the mozillateam.   I discussed this previously, and I understand there are reasons for the choices made. 
<ScottK> directhex: You can't have versioned provides.   I suspect that's at least part of the issue. 
<directhex> ScottK, oh, yes, there is that
<Rhonda> or from the other point of view, a provides can't fulfill a versioned depends. :) 
<malev> hi!  is there an irc channer for: Ubuntu Prospective Developers  I wanna start developping in Ubuntu, and I think that is the place for start :D
<Pici> malev: #ubuntu-app-devel
<persia> Um, no. 
<persia> malev: What kind of development do you want to do? 
<Pici> No? 
<persia> Pici: #ubuntu-app-devel is for folk developing applications that run *on* Ubuntu, not for developing Ubuntu itself. 
<malev> persia: ... to start!  I'm a begginer in this area
<Pici> persia: Oh, right :)
<persia> malev: OK.   What sort of packages interest you?   What sort of work might you like to do on them? 
<malev> persia: packing python and maybe solving some bugs
<malev> something like that
<persia> OK.   That's certainly doable.   Have you encountered any bugs that are bothering you now? 
<malev> persia: not right now.  Me idea is to start packing in ubuntu for contributting with ubuntu.  Currently I've been at the bugsquad team
<malev> the thing is that the developers wiki are not clear as the bugsquad's wiki.  you know, for begginers
<persia> heh. 
<persia> So, from your work with bugsquad, have you encountered some bugs in python packages you think you can fix? 
<malev> I guess.  some at python-numpy, python-matlibplot and gwibber.  But I haven't tried
<nigelb> do we need to sync the new debbootstrap into ubuntu?  seems to have a bit of new features and some bug fixes
<persia> Well, give one a try :)
<persia> nigelb: Potentially, or potentially cherrypick.   What do you think? 
<jayvee> is there an easier way to convert .diff.gz modifications to debian/patches than my manual method? 
<malev> persia: you say: I should encourage to fixing bus first and then trying to join a ubuntu developers team? 
<nigelb> persia: Cherrypick may not need an ffe, but I feel its worth an ffe
<persia> malev: Absolutely.   All the teams expect you to have been working as part of them to become a member. 
<nigelb> ie, sync the whole thing
<malev> persia: Oks!  thanks!! 
<persia> malev: Just ask here when you get stuck, and we'll help you along. 
<malev> cool! 
<persia> malev: If you end up working on packages that belong to another team, we'll tell you to talk to them, but since we handle most packages, it's usually safe to ask here if you're not sure. 
<tseliot> DktrKranz: ping on gtg
<persia> nigelb: Well then, built it on lucid, test it, and if it does all it should, file bugs :)
 * nigelb grumbles about all the work
<persia> nigelb: That's how "we" becomes "we" :)
<nigelb> persia: hehe
<DktrKranz> tseliot: gtg pong :)
<tseliot> DktrKranz: I've noticed that you uploaded gtg
<tseliot> DktrKranz: and I'm wondering how I'm supposed to add my fix with quilt (as it involves adding binaries too) to the source tarball
<tseliot> see my last comment in  bug #531909
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531909 in gtg "gtg crashed with UnboundLocalError in on_export()" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531909
 * DktrKranz looks
<DktrKranz> tseliot: oh, distutils troubles again... you'll have to patch setup.py to include missing directories
<DktrKranz> (I can eventually fix it in Debian and then sync)
<tseliot> DktrKranz: the point is that setup.py already contains those files and directories but the tarball does not
 * tseliot is wondering why the package doesn't fail to build
<DktrKranz> oh, is tarball lacking them?  I intended the other way roind
<DktrKranz> *round
<tseliot> DktrKranz: yep
<DktrKranz> so, it's a broken MANIFEST.in
<DktrKranz> eta for 0.2.4 is ~1w from now, this could be eventually fixed there (after a FFe, of course)
<tseliot> DktrKranz: if you think the new upstream release is worth a FFE, then sure, let's wait
<DktrKranz> tseliot: if it's not, IIRC gtg is already format 3.0 (quilt), adding blobs is allowed and not much difficult
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'll point upstream to that, so there's chance to properly fix it
<tseliot> DktrKranz: blobs are actually html files which quilt sees as blobs *I guess*
<DktrKranz> no, it should see them as normal text files
<tseliot> so I figured
<DktrKranz> for images, they're interpreted as blobs
<DktrKranz> but new format doesn't care
<tseliot> DktrKranz: how does it work?  Will the new source have a debian/patches directory with my diff? 
 * tseliot has never used quilt with source format 3
 * tseliot is familiar with quilt though
<tseliot> aah: "Debian-specific changes are no longer stored in a singleÂ .diff.gzÂ but in multiple patches inÂ debian/patches/"
<tseliot> http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0
<persia> tseliot: Well, kinda.   It's more complicated than that, and there are more options, but for this package, yes. 
<tseliot> ok
<Rhonda> tseliot: That's only part of the truth.  Debian-specific changes were for a long time already stored in multiple patches in debian/patches/, if one used a patch system.  But you know, advertising and stuff. :) 
<tseliot> heh
<Rhonda> â¦ and actually like you mentioned quilt, quilt did that right from the start. :) 
<Rhonda> Don't though be misguided by the naming of the format quilt.  It's just similar to quilt but still is different. 
<persia> Format: 3.0 (quilt) is just like using quilt as a Format: 1.0 patchsystem, except one doesn't build-dep on quilt. 
<Rhonda> â¦ moreorless. 
<persia> Well, yeah. 
 * persia carefully ignores the dpkg implementation
<Rhonda> Keeping in mind that they are different things is needed to not get frustrated in cases it (still) behaves differently. 
<nigelb> Rhonda: is there an easily recognized page that details sponsorship process in debian? 
<Rhonda> e.g. format 3(quilt) on intention doesn't allow fuzzy patches, which quilt accepted quite readily. 
<nigelb> I only see references to the thing
<Rhonda> nigelb: Well, just produce the source package, upload it somewhere and fire up a mail to the debian-mentors@lists.debian.org list. 
<Rhonda> or find somone interested in the package who can act like your regular sponsor/mentor combination. 
<nigelb> so, I'm supposed to mail the person
<Rhonda> No, the list. :) 
<Rhonda> group of persons. :) 
<nigelb> the documentation is so confusing.   it only says, go through sponsorship
<nigelb> I have someone who would be interested
<nigelb> trying to respond to a RFH
<persia> nigelb: An RFH bug?   reply to the bug. 
<Rhonda> There is this mentors.debian.net service for uploading, but that doesn't really go around looking for sponsors, so just uploading there and waiting doesn't gain much. 
<nigelb> I did reply.   so what do I do with the package I want sponsorship? 
<Laney> If the submitter of the RFH is a DD, ask them for sponsoring. 
<Rhonda> If there is a bug it closes you should also use that facility and either attach the debdiff to the mail or a link to your prepared sources. 
<nigelb> ah, debdiff, attach to bug - now that makes sense
<nigelb> why can't it just be written in the new maintainer guide.. sigh
<Rhonda> Because debian is hard core.  If you can dig its documentation you are ready for applying to become a DD.  :P
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> yeah, you just cut out people who can't find things ;)
<nigelb> Getting gwibber to debian seems harder than I thought though. 
<DktrKranz> Rhonda: it's hard by design, or NM is just a copy&paste :)
<Rhonda> nigelb: But it's there already, isn't it? 
<nigelb> Rhonda: gwibber (1.2.0+bzr358-2)
<Laney> maybe the person maintaining it in Ubuntu is interested in uploading to Debian instead...
<nigelb> trying to get gwibber 2 in (which why there was an RFH, coz the thing doesn't work)
 * Laney coughs
<nigelb> ken? 
<Laney> I dunno who it is
<nigelb> it comes under desktop team ;)
<Laney> ha
<Laney> the desktop team has a lot of DDs too
<nigelb> Since they're busy people, I thought I'd poke them when I get stuck
<Laney> since when did it move to main/
<nigelb> since Lucid probably
<nigelb> the Me Menu and all
<Laney> oh, the social from the start stuff eh
<nigelb> yeah, that works on top of gwibber
<nigelb> how wicked would be to upload to debian with an @ubuntu address? ;) 
<persia> bdrung does it all the time.   Other people never do.   Matter of taste. 
<Laney> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/pinta_0.2-1.html
<Laney> what what
<Laney> I figure it helps to add to the "giving back" metric. 
<nigelb> thats my idea too
<Rhonda> nigelb: If you want to get someone ranting, just do it.  It's always fun. :) 
<nigelb> besides, I'm too lazy to keep changing the values set in bashrc and git ;)
<persia> People will rant either way "Don't upload with @ubuntu" vs. "Ubuntu doesn't contribute to Debian". 
<Laney> I haven't been flamed yet :(
<Rhonda> nigelb: http://sandrotosi.blogspot.com/2009/11/things-that-make-me-angry.html
<persia> People like ranting.   Focus on the work. 
<tseliot> DktrKranz: so, it looks like the 2 html are indeed binaries.  See my quilt patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/396202/
<Laney> I recall morph getting counter-flamed quite a lot for that post
<nigelb> My main idea is people need not say, "Ubuntu does not contribute to debian"
<Rhonda> nigelb: You just said that! 
<nigelb> Rhonda: I'll contribute soon enough to solve that ;)
<shadeslayer> nigelb: btw congrats on becoming a member!!  are you from India? 
<persia> nigelb: Just focus on the work.   Really.   Don't worry about the address.   No matter which way you do it, you'll annoy someone. 
<Laney> It's not really "ubuntu" anyway, it's me
<persia> Laney: Indeed. 
<nigelb> shadeslayer: lol, I thought you knew ;)
<persia> (well, this also applies for other values of "me")
<shadeslayer> nigelb: oh cuz im from there too :)
<nigelb> shadeslayer: I know
<Laney> Anyone know if it's possible to push all git branches and tags with one command? 
<Laney> vs push --all && --tags
<shadeslayer> nigelb: :P oh best of luck for the future :)
<nigelb> shadeslayer: ty :)
<lfaraone> kees: did you have a chance to work on bug 538471? 
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/538471)
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: oh one last thing can you edit the ubuntu wiki with IST set in your LP profile? 
<nigelb> shadeslayer_: conflicts with wiki
<vish> shadeslayer_: did it say error when logining with open id? 
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: yeah i thought so... workarounds? 
<shadeslayer_> vish: yep
<lfaraone> nigelb: I used to use my @ubuntu.com, but I think it's overrated unless you're explictly pushing changes form ubuntu. 
<vish> shadeslayer_: change the lp timezone and then login :)
<vish> shadeslayer_: then you can switch back once you login ;)
<DktrKranz> nigelb: I completed my NM process with a @ubuntu.com address, so people shouldn't care about your email :)
<nigelb> lfaraone: I'm just lazy actually. 
<shadeslayer_> vish: yeah i change it when i need to edit the wiki... which was just once to add myself to the delhi teams list
<nigelb> all the defaults is set to @ubuntu address - I painfully did that last week, I dont want to duplicate the work again
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: how is the interface? 
<vish> shadeslayer_: dont logout of the wiki , it should work fine
<shadeslayer_> (of the ubuntu mail)
<shadeslayer_> vish: hmmm ok :)
<DktrKranz> tseliot: try to build it to see if it actually works, keep in mind you have to use a chroot *without* quilt installed, or it gets fooled
<Laney> there is no interface, it's just a forward
<vish> shadeslayer_: there is no interface , it is just a dummy id to forward
<nigelb> shadeslayer_: its only a re-direct
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: ah.. so it redirects any mail to @ubuntu.com to your usual id... nice! 
<vish> for some reason my id doesnt work :/
<shadeslayer_> i want one!  :P
<nigelb> vish: what happens? 
<vish> nigelb: the mails just fail ;p
<nigelb> vish: do you test from your gmail ID to your ubuntu ID?  that would fail
<tseliot> DktrKranz: it's using gtg_0.2.3.orig.tar.gz (shall I make a new tarball?)  and it still complains: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/396206/
<vish> nigelb: i tried from yahoo and gmail to ubuntu too but still it has the problem , my main id is yahoo though
<vish> nigelb: we are off topic here ;)
<nigelb> vish: yeah join #launchpad
<persia> very :)
<bdrung_> persia: you picked me as example?  was it by hazard or are there so few devs using @ubuntu.com for Debian work? 
<DktrKranz> tseliot: weird, did you use quilt shell to generate patch? 
<DktrKranz> if so, it shouldn't fail
<persia> bdrung_: It's because I happened to be looking at one of your debian changelogs earlier in the day. 
<tseliot> DktrKranz: I did a quilt edit filename for each file
<bdrung_> persia: of which package? 
<DktrKranz> yeah, that should be enough anyway
 * persia checks history
<DktrKranz> I'll have a look this evening too, now I'm unable to check
<tseliot> DktrKranz: ok, thanks
<persia> bdrung_: Looks like audacity was the one. 
<bdrung_> persia: the package with the highest popcon stat...
<persia> Indeed.   Uploading that was the worst TIL I've had.   It came to my attention because of the export-by-track bug that doesn't appear to be fixed in lucid.   Are you syncing, or have you? 
<bdrung_> persia: bug #517858
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517858 in audacity "Sync audacity 1.3.11-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517858
<bdrung_> persia: i assume the syncing problem is fixed
<persia> syncing problem? 
<bdrung_> sync a -2 of an .orig.tar.bz2
<persia> Ugh.   Just upload it then. 
<persia> You'll have to mangle the .changes file, and sign it separately, but that oughtn't be that hard. 
<persia> I think there's even a script floating about that does some of it. 
<bdrung_> persia: yes, and this script had a bug
<persia> That script has lots of bugs, and shouldn't be used in most cases.   Still, it's a reasonable guide to mangling the .changes file. 
<lfaraone> bdrung_: by the way, thanks for ACKing all my sync requests :)
<mok0> persia: I'd like to change the arch on my netbook OS from "lpia" to "i386".  Is there a way to do that without re-installing?  What I'm wondering is if you could change dpkg's understanding of what the arch is
<bdrung_> lfaraone: you're welcome. 
<persia> mok0: I don't know of any good way to do it without a reinstall. 
<mok0> persia: Hm.  Dang
<mok0> persia: My impression is that lpia and i386 should be compatible
<persia> kinda. 
<persia> The ABI may differ in some respects due to differences in the toolchain, but that's about it. 
<mok0> persia: different compiler optimization flags, right? 
<persia> different triplet
<mok0> persia: but how does dpkg-* know what the arch is? 
<mok0> persia: it must be set somewhere
<persia> I forget.   Check the dpkg-architecture source. 
<mok0> persia: I did... but got lost in the perl
<persia> heh
<mok0> persia: just a bunch of regexes
<mok0> persia: and I wasn't sure if that was the nexus of that information
<persia> mok0: It just asks dpkg --print-architecture, as it turns out. 
<mok0> persia: Ah, so I can look at old fashioned C code :-)
<mok0> persia: it comes from configure.ac
<mok0> persia: So what I'd have to do is to compile a customized version of dpkg and hope that I don't trash my system :-)
<persia> You could try just installing the i386 dpkg, and see how much that breaks :)
<mok0> persia: ... but how can I do that?  I am limited to installing lpia packages? 
<mok0> persia: you mean force it? 
<persia> Yes.   Since you're going to break your system anyway (backup first), installing dpkg with --force-architecture can only save you compilation time. 
<BlackZ> persia: a package where an adding-dependece has been requested can be appropiate for an FFE? ( the dependence introduces a new feature). 
<persia> BlackZ: Could you rephrase?   Also, why ask me?   I'm not a release person. 
<BlackZ> bug #533799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533799 in librack-ruby "missing dependency " [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533799
<ScottK> BlackZ: That's a bug, no FFe needed. 
<mok0> persia: you are running karmic on your poulsbo machine, right? 
<persia> mok0: No.   I'm running something half-way through jaunty and letting it gather dust. 
<persia> It just doesn't work for me. 
<persia> lifeless was trying to hack in some support a couple weeks ago. 
<mok0> persia: oh?  My mini-10 runs jaunty just fine
<persia> Yeah, I bet I could run jaunty, but it's just not a nice machine in other ways. 
<mok0> persia: I see. 
<persia> Looked better at the shop than in real world use. 
<persia> (Sharp D4)
<mok0> persia: the problem with jaunty is that the developer tools are utterly broken
<persia> mok0: Doesn't surprise me.   I think that was when lpia-wrapper got introduced. 
<mok0> persia: I think it was when LP was upgraded at some point
<persia> But I don't know that anyone spent a lot of time developing *on* lpia, so much as theoretically *for* lpia. 
<mok0> persia: I use it
<persia> I know, but I think you started to use it after most of the active porting work stopped. 
<mok0> persia: ubuntu-dev-tools has introduced a very ,very, very long chain of dependencies
<persia> Or at least after I stopped doing active porting work, but I think I was one of the last ones doing it. 
<persia> heh. 
<mok0> persia: I tried chasing it down the other day, and after about 10 packages I ran into a major problem
<persia> I'd make it longer, but my change was reverted :)
<mok0> Hehe
<mok0> persia: Also u1 stopped working on it; otherwise I could've told you what package stopped the backporting
<mok0> In fact u1 just gives me conflicts everywhere
<mok0> I should move to dropbox
<mok0> In principle jaunty should be supported, but I don't think anyone cares about it anymore
<dpm> dupondje, it seems that the translation issue with g-p-m upstream has been properly fixed now :)
<lfaraone> persia: in http://sprunge.us/YKSM (freemind), some of the builds say "build failed", but the build progresses.  Shouldn't pbuilder let me know if the build failed? :) 
<persia> ant is special that way :)
<persia> It doesn't break make when it fails sometimes, for reasons I don't really understand in detail. 
<persia> You might ask in #ubuntu-java : someone might have a real explanation. 
<nigelb> bdrung_: congrats :)
<bdrung_> nigelb: thanks.  you are fast. 
<lfaraone> persia: unrelated, if package 1-1 is in Ubuntu, 1-2 fixes a RC bug in debian, but 2-1 is now in Debian (which introduces a NUV), can we sync the superseded version 1-2? ( it does not seem to be in testing or unstable at this point)
<nigelb> hehe :)
<dupondje> dpm: yea indeed :)
<persia> lfaraone: If it's not in an active Debian repository, I believe we can't really sync, but double-check with an archive-admin. 
<ScottK> lfaraone: No. 
<persia> lfaraone: You can probably fake it though, if you need. 
<lfaraone> persia: specifically, the package is http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/modest/current/changelog , Ubuntu has 1.0+svn1091.debian-3, latest is 3.90.4-1, and the one we want is 1.0+svn1091.debian-4
<dpm> dupondje, thanks for tracking it down and reporting it! 
<persia> lfaraone: Or cherrypick the patch. 
<lfaraone> persia: oh?  how's that? 
<ScottK> If you can find the relevant changes, just upload them to Ubuntu. 
<lfaraone> oh, mk. 
<dupondje> dpm: nope :) it was just annoying me, so I fixed :p
<lfaraone> thanks, I'll put a bzr repo later today. 
<dpm> dupondje, yeah, that's the spirit :)
<dupondje> dpm: thats the power of linux, if something is broke in Windows, you can just watch and cry :p
<dupondje> on linux you get the source and fix
<dpm> indeed
<dupondje> maby i'll fix some more bugs If I see something annoying
<dupondje> the status messages are still in english
<dupondje> but they come right from DeviceKit-Power, which is untranslated
<\sh> hmmm...how would you write the debian/copyright file, when you don't know who the upstream author is, but copyright holder google inc? 
<\sh> ok...got the answer from google-perftools ;)
<persia> \sh: Skip "Author(s)" :)
<persia> Heh.   That works too. 
<persia> Sometimes code.google.com has histories that can be informative as well. 
<nixternal> google is evil, use bing! 
<nixternal> </trolling>
<Laney> I don't think you actually need the author with DEP5, do you? 
<\sh> persia: Authors: Google Opensource Developers <opensource@google.com> ;)
<Laney> Just Maintainer and copyright holder
<Laney> Maintainer is even optional :)
<persia> Well, it's also good to have original authors for jurisdictions in which the original author retains "natural rights" to the code. 
<persia> ("work for hire" only goes so far in some places)
<persia> Not that I'm qualified to have an opinion :)
 * Laney is thinking only of pleasing the archive overlords
<persia> Laney: You may be amused to read Ganneff's comments on DEP5 (I don't think they are on the DEP site : you may have to track through wiki history from the old wiki page).   Most of the details don't matter from that point of view. 
<Laney> persia: OK, I just read it, and am now enlightened. 
<Laney> I thought that the FTP team would have had input...
<persia> The FTP team?   You mean ftp-masters? 
<Laney> yeah
<persia> They did. 
<Laney> re: "Thats why you never heard anything from us"
<persia> The point there is that the format simply doesn't matter from that perspective. 
<persia> (and it doesn't)
<persia> The format becomes useful *after* to passes through that process. 
<Laney> I was viewing it as a recipe to include everything you should
<persia> Because if the format is used, and it passes that process, then it is likely possible to rely on that format to extact usefu lstuff. 
<Laney> of course it requires dilligence to get it all right, and doesn't obviate the need for checking
<persia> Right. 
<nigelb> if a patch works with -p0, how do I get it to work with -p1? 
<hyperair> nigelb: add a/ and b/ in front of all the paths. 
<nigelb> we prefer p1 right? 
<hyperair> you could also get quilt to refresh into -p1 for you
<hyperair> yes we prefer p1
<nigelb> its cdbs
<hyperair> well it doesn't matter what you use as long as the patch applies i think
<hyperair> cdbs's simple-patchsys has support for -p0 to -p2
<hyperair> quilt needs you to tell it which -p to try (otherwise it'll use -p1)
<nigelb> ah
<hyperair> dpatch, i don't know.  i've never used it much (and i think it's a hack of a patch system anyway)
<nigelb> I've never used it either
<hyperair> don't start unless you're picking up an old package, i say =p
<nigelb> heh
<persia> What?   Why do we prefer -p1? 
<nigelb> quilt likes it
<persia> so? 
<nigelb> plus git spits out p1
<persia> so? 
<nigelb> (thats the answer I got the last time I asked)
<hyperair> dpkg-source v3 likes -p1
<persia> If you have a patch, apply the patch to the sources however it needs. 
<persia> Use the standard tools to apply the patch. 
<persia> Then you get a good result. 
<nigelb> ok, this might sound dumb, but how do I apply a patch with cdbs
<nigelb> I never worked with an actual patch with cdbs
<hyperair> cdbs-edit-patch
<nigelb> I did that
<nigelb> how do I access the patch file now/
<hyperair> it's in debian/patches
<persia> edit-patch should work in most cases (file bugs if it doesn't)
<nigelb> no, you didn't get me
<persia> So edit-patch, then apply whatever you have however you must, then exit. 
<persia> And you end up with it in the right format for that package. 
<nigelb> I have a simple patch file which I need to apply with cdbs
<persia> We shouldn't care about patch -p levels, but rather use that preferred by the tool. 
<nigelb> so I do cdbs-edit-patch and now how do I access the patch that has been submitted? 
<persia> nigelb: Then use edit-patch (or cdbs-edit-patch if you must), apply it however, and exit, watching it magically appear in debian/patches. 
<nigelb> persia: its the apply step.   I can't find the patch inside the subshell
<persia> nigelb: Did you save the submitted patch somewhere?   If so, cp it.   If not, wget it. 
<nigelb> I have it in the same folder as the source
<nigelb> but when I do patch -p1 ../<patch-name>
<nigelb> I can't find it
<persia> For instance, I usually do cp /home/persia/src/scratch/${PACKAGE}/foo.diff . 
<persia> (or sometimes patch -p?  < /home/...
<nigelb> ugh, painstaking ;)
<persia> nigelb: You can also just wget it into the subshell, usually. 
<nigelb> persia: I'd rather patch -p1 < /home...
<persia> But that would be *wrong*
<nigelb> oh, it is? 
<persia> Oh, sorrt. 
<persia> Yeah, that's right. 
<nigelb> wait, what I'm doing is right or wrong? 
 * persia first read it as /home/...$ patch -p1 < ../patch
<persia> What you're doing is right. 
<nigelb> ;)
 * nigelb goes to do patch tagging
<dupondje> dpm: Can you find the patch in the gnome-power-manager git ? 
<dpm> dupondje, hmm, I hadn't had a look actually, I just read the messages in the thread.  I noticed that the translation template was not updated in l10n.gnome.org, though.  Let me see...
<dpm> dupondje, it seems it hasn't been pushed yet -> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-power-manager/log/ I think the commit id given in the bug might be a local commit
<dupondje> the bug is marked as 'fixed' but its not fixed imo :)
<nigelb> what is csd in the context of gtk+? 
 * persia idly recommends #ubuntu-desktop for gnome-power-manager discussion, as lots of folk there don't idle here but may be interested. 
<nigelb> anyone has clues to what bug 528017 means? 
 * nigelb pokes ubottu 
<dupondje> put a # before it :P
<nigelb> generally not needed
<nigelb> bug #528017
<nigelb> gah, bot lag
<dupondje> it died :(
<dupondje> :)
<nigelb> dupondje: a slight lag, someone's working on the system, will be back soon I guess
<dupondje> outch, doing bug report with apport, canceling it, and it crashes :)
<dupondje> apport-bug apport :p
<hyperair> it died and a smiley?  what a sadist
<hyperair> =p
<nigelb> I love the new apport patch which lets you add to a report via apport-collect only if you reported the bug
<dupondje> [177228.372691] yelp[28182] trap int3 ip:7fd9dc7c8bc2 sp:7fff6c2f1c20 error:0
<dupondje> stupid yelp :)
<shadeslayer> hi i created this : http://pastebin.ca/1842668 : but when i put 1 1,it should print a and its printing r
<shadeslayer> um wrong channel :P
<siretart`> bdrung_: congrats! 
<bdrung_> siretart`: thanks
<dupondje> dpm: now its fixed :P
<arand> For a branch proposed for merging, is it normally ok for anyone to add a comment in the review thingy, or is comments other than reviewer's comments frowned upon? 
<geser> If you have something to add, please add it.  That way the proposer has a chance to update the branch if necessary before a dev looks at it. 
<arand> geser: What I had in mind was commenting on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lielft/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/games-slide/+merge/15545 that maybe "use wine to run you windows games" might be a bit to optimistic of a statement to be in such an "official" place, that's relevant? 
<geser> arand: don't know, but if you think it's relevant, please add it.  The reviewer will either take your comment into account or ignore it if he feels it's irrelevant. 
<arand> yea, fair enough I guess. 
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-17
<micahg> are merges still accepted as debdiffs? 
<persia> micahg: Most certainly
<micahg> persia: great, I think I got my first merge right :)
<RAOF> micahg: How's gjs riding? 
<micahg> RAOF: sorry, haven't had time yet...
<micahg> RAOF: also haven't chatted with asac yet...
<micahg> RAOF: do you think this is critical? 
<RAOF> Well, gjs *does* need to build from source. 
<micahg> RAOF: yes, but you said we can disable jit and it builds fine
<RAOF> Yeah.   I'll make an upload disabling the JIT on armel and i386, and it can be lower-priority. 
<micahg> RAOF: is that something we can fix after release or no? 
<RAOF> Maybe not; as long as it builds, it's a pretty low-impact bug. 
<micahg> RAOF: does if affect the functionality of gjs? 
<RAOF> It makes it slower, but doesn't disrupt the functionality.   Also, gjs < 0.5 didn't enable the jit by default anyway, so it's not a regression from 0.4
<wrapster>  i tried to dist upgrade and it failed at a pkg now.. 'sunwcsd' ..I manually tried to install to see why this is occuring.. and found out this... http://pastie.org/873299
<wrapster> isnt that obvious coz when i perform a dist upgrade its evident that the machine is running older version of pkgs.. so shouldnt  dist-upgrade take this up and resolve the issue? 
<wrapster> or how do i resolve this now? 
<persia> nexenta  package upgrade failures are *definitely* off-topic here :)
<wrapster> persia: sorry about that.  But i thought i 'll ask as it was about packaging...
<wrapster> sorry anyways
<persia> While this channel talks about packaging a lot, and does a lot of training, the focus is really on improving Ubuntu, especially those packages that don't have someone looking after them. 
<micahg> persia: do you know if native PPAs are supposed to not get uploads right now since they build on the release builders? 
<persia> micahg: I'd recommend checking https://launchpad.net/builders for the queue sizes first, and using common sense. 
<micahg> persia: empty
<micahg> except for ia64
<persia> micahg: How long does your package take to build? 
<micahg> persia: it's thunderbird 2
<micahg> so 45 min on normal archs
<persia> If it's quick, I'd say there's little risk.   If it takes a week, now isn't the best time :)
<micahg> 4.5 hhrs on armel
<persia> Ought be relatively safe. 
<micahg> persia: it's for security updates...that are supposed to be released any day, but I don't know if I'll get someone to upload tonight
<micahg> persia: but it's good to know anyways
<persia> If it's security stuff, then it takes precedence over other stuff. 
<micahg> persia: k..if I can only get an uploader :)
<ddecator> what kind of scripting in a makefile would cause "find -L" during debuild? 
<ddecator> got it figured out, and quilt is amazing =)
<dholbach> good morning
<ddecator> mornin'
<christoph_debian> hm how far is the freezing currently?  would it be possible to sync from debian for adding a .desktop file + adding a build-dep to make some functionality work? 
<RAOF> christoph_debian: Absolutely.   Main is currently frozen for beta, but bugfixes can go in all the way up to RC (after that, only serious bugfixes go in). 
<christoph_debian> ok and RC is still a bit away? 
 * christoph_debian should look it up himself
<christoph_debian> ah good
<Laney> how can I get branch proposals to go away from the sponsoring list? 
<christoph_debian> (will go from debian/experimental -- not my decision to start using some experimental version in ubuntu)
<Laney> I added a "Disapprove" review but that did nothing
<dholbach> http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/cheatsheet.pdf
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule
<persia> dholbach: Shouldn't the first say "From Beta freeze"? 
<persia> dholbach: Nevermind.   I'm confused. 
<dholbach> in any case: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/cheatsheet.odt - "patches" appreciated :-D
<dholbach> brb
<Laney> james_w: ^ do you know?  I guess something has to happen with the Ubuntu reviewers review request, right? 
 * persia goes to fix that
<Laney> ubuntu branches, that is
<persia> james_w: Do you have access to the ubuntu-core-reviews@ mailbox?   Can you press the shiny button? 
<Daviey> persia: it's already been done. 
<persia> But I still can't do the other one :/
<lfaraone> dholbach: persia and I were talking about freemind yesterday, apparently ant ignores the all-caps "BUILD FAILED" results of component builds. 
<dholbach> lfaraone: ok
<lfaraone> (I was confused at first, and initially thought the build was successful :)
<dholbach> gotcha :)
<lfaraone> If a package requires an API key to work, and upstream tells you "don't share this with anyone", how can we build from source without disclosing the secret? 
<cody-somerville> lfaraone, Don't include the API key in the source package. 
<lfaraone> cody-somerville: well, the user has to go through an email loop to apply for the key, and it looks like the key is required at build time. 
<lfaraone> otoh, I ran `strings` and was able to find out their API key from their released binaries. 
<cody-somerville> lfaraone, Is this package open source? 
<cody-somerville> It sounds like this package doesn't qualify to be built in launchpad if it requires a secret API key. 
<lfaraone> cody-somerville: yes, it is open source. 
<lfaraone> cody-somerville: BSD, in fact.  But to work with the webservice it is designed to use, it requires an API key, and they configured it to require the key at build time. 
<james_w> persia, Laney: what shiny button? 
<Laney> we were talking about different things
<Laney> I want to make a branch merge proposal go away from the sponsoring page, but don't know how
<james_w> Hi Laney
<Laney> hi! 
<james_w> Laney: can you edit the status at the top? 
<Laney> james_w: no
<james_w> Laney: I thought this was going to be covered by https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/504025 but evidently not
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 504025 in launchpad-code "LP doesn't show correct permissions for packaging branches for me" [High,Fix released]
<james_w> please file a new bug
<Laney> ok then
<nigelb> is pbuilder broken for debian packages in karmic? 
<nigelb> i.e. debian dists
<Laney> the apt error? 
<nigelb> yup
<Laney> I thought there was an SRU for that
<nigelb> I was working on the SRU, but the fix it not in Lucid yet
<Laney> yes it is
 * nigelb checks
<nigelb> no it isn't
<Laney> it was fixed in 0.196, which we have
<nigelb> lucid has 1.0.20, the fix is in 1.0.22
<james_w> persia: I'm about to expire from u-u-s, do I need to care under the new structure?  and if so, could you please renew me?  thanks. 
<nigelb> it was fixed it pbuilder?  I thougt the trouble was debootstrap
<nigelb> Laney: ah :)
<Laney> james_w: filed #540250
<james_w> thank you sir
<dyfet> I have an interesting problem with unmet dependencies in lucid
<dyfet> this relates to migrating from libsoup2.2 (karmic) to libsoup2.4
<dyfet> And I was looking for some help on how to resolve this kind of problem
<jayvee> okay, I'm officially confused
<jayvee> am I right in guessing that 'debclean' unapplies all patches? 
<jayvee> well, this .diff.gz modifications fixes a bug in the python setup.py app that causes it to download all this crap whenever you run 'debclean'
<azeem_> is that a command? 
<jayvee> now, I've been told to put this into a debian/patches format
<jayvee> debclean is a command, yes
<jayvee> I've been told to put this into a debian/patches format, but how can that work when the tree is cleaned, and it causes the bug to trigger? 
<azeem_> what is "this"? 
<jayvee> the package I'm working on â let me find the bug number
<azeem_> also, I never heard of debclean before and never uesd it
<jayvee> LP #529350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529350 in tahoe-lafs "please upgrade Tahoe-LAFS in Lucid to v1.6.1 of Tahoe-LAFS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529350
<jayvee> I bit off way more than I could chew when I started this. 
<azeem_> jayvee: there's no mention of debclean in that bug log
<jayvee> debclean is automatically run when you run debuild or dpkg-buildpackage
<jayvee> or dh_clean, maybe
<jayvee> sorry, dh_client I meant in all the above
 * jayvee is very tired
<jayvee> dh_clean, I mean
<jayvee> oh dear
<azeem_> ok, that makes more sense
<azeem_> dh_clean does not have anything to do with patches
<jayvee> it does â whenever it's run, all the patches are deapplied
<azeem_> how do you run it? 
<jayvee> I type debclean
<azeem_> why? 
<jayvee> or I type debuild
<jayvee> the reason why I type debuild should be more obvious ;)
<azeem_> ok, so debuild might also run dh_clean
<jayvee> yeah, it does
<azeem_> I wonder why you think it's dh_clean that unapplies the patches, and not anything else it runs
<jayvee> I can see it in the output
<jayvee> bleh, it doesn't really matter *what* deapplies the patches
<azeem_> then what is your question? 
<jayvee> the point being is that the 'clean' script is run while the patches are deapplied
<azeem_> it's the other way round
<azeem_> the patches are deapplied in the clean target
<azeem_> or, rather, as a pre-requisite of the clean target
<jayvee> yes, exactly
<jayvee> which is perfectly reasonable for most use cases
<azeem_> so what is your use case? 
<jayvee> this software has a stupid bug in it that makes it run amok when you run 'python setup.py clean', wildly downloading dependencies
<jayvee> the bug has been fixed by the previous packager, which you can see in the .diff.gz for the software
<jayvee> but I was told by fabrice_sp that I need to convert this into a debian/patches format instead
<jayvee> but debian/patches get applied and deapplied, but this change needs to stay applied for the sake of sanity
<jayvee> I'm in a catch-22
<azeem_> I see
<jayvee> I'm thinking maybe fabrice_sp didn't look too closely at what the patch the previous maintainer actually did, so he didn't realise this wasn't a simple functionality fix. 
<azeem_> one possibly option would be to no run python setup.py clean
<azeem_> not*
<azeem_> or to have a second target, like "real-clean", which does the work
<azeem_> and clean depends on first real-clean and unpatch second
<azeem_> (not sure whether that would work)
<jayvee> I'm starting to think that the previous packager had this in the .diff.gz format for a reason. 
<azeem_> could be
<azeem_> maybe inspect the changelog
<jayvee> nope, nothing interesting in the log
<jayvee> previous packager was Paul Hummer <paul@ubuntu.com> so I presume he knows what he's diong
<jayvee> s/diong/doing/
<jayvee> well I'm gonna upload the .diff.gz, explain my dilemma, and I'll see what fabrice_sp says in the morning
<jayvee> it's 1:20 AM, and I need some zzzz's
<bdmurray> siretart`: should the ogmrip bug task in bug 539555 be invalid? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539555 in mplayer "mencoder crashed with SIGSEGV in x264_nal_encode()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539555
<siretart`> bdmurray: yes
<hggdh> 18
<joaopinto> hell
<joaopinto> is there a proper way for package-foo to change config files installed by package-bar without forcing the "config upgrade" prompt on package-bar upgrades ? 
<joaopinto> dpkg-divert ? 
<thopiekar> hi .I'm a member of the Canola project and atm almost the only person working on Canola.. I need more people here at #canola to improve the code.. the player is great and many plugins are available.. please help.  the developters that where working on it in the past were paied to work on it - now they have other priorities so - we need you! 
<Myrtti> thopiekar: seriously
<thopiekar> yes? 
<Myrtti> browniepoints--;
<thopiekar> he?`:P
<Myrtti> stop spamming? 
<xhaker> QUESTION: Is anyone working on getting bluefish 2.0 in Lucid? 
<Rhonda> xhaker: Isn't that a little late?  feature freeze and import freeze are already in place? 
<Rhonda> xhaker: But upstream themself don't consider 2.0.0 fit for a release, see http://bugs.debian.org/570731 message #10
<xhaker> Rhonda: thanks for the link. 
<sebsebseb> Anyone about? 
<crimsun> nope
<Linux000> ignore the man behind the keyboard *whistles*
<sebsebseb> I am here to report an issue with the multiverse repo well a package in it,  at the moment I am trying to type this properly. 
<sebsebseb> I hope this is a good enough place to do this?   Since I don't want to mess around trying to log into my old Launchpad account for example, and then do it on there some where.  It's also not really a bug,  it's just a package that should be updated,  like what seems to of been done in Debian already. 
<RAOF> Launchpad's a much better place. 
<micahg> sebsebseb: just requesting a new version? 
<sebsebseb> micahg: no a bit more to it then just that
<micahg> sebsebseb: yeah, launchpad then...if it was just a package update, I was going to say requestsync
<sebsebseb> micahg: well I guess I should explain really what it is  here, and then whatever from there
<sebsebseb> Ok this is to do with screensavers,  yes there are people who still care about screensavers :)  I am one of them.   Right Ubuntu used to be great for default screensavers, loads of nice ones by default,  but not anymore starting with Ubuntu 9.10.   I am not a developer so I thought,  oh well they will import the packages from Debian and the issue will probably get fixed.  http://packages.debian.org/sid/xscreensaver-screensaver-webcollage  Now I
<sebsebseb> am thinking with Lucid Beta 1 tommorow that no probably not,  and not any time soon either for any version of Ubuntu,  unless I or someone like me mention the issue. 
<sebsebseb> the problem is to install the aditional screensavers from the repo.   Got to install  xscreensaver-data-extra  which does have the webcollage warning,  but
<sebsebseb> then it seems can't  easily remove that screensaver?  or can I? 
<sebsebseb> I like having random screensavers, and I don't want it to have that screensaver come up as part of it. 
<micahg> sebsebseb: disabling an individual screensaver is possible, you can ask in #ubuntu
<sebsebseb> micahg: right, but even so,  maybe  Ubuntu should do like Debian, when it comes to that one  and move it to it's own package
<sebsebseb> Debian seem to of also done that with the BSOD  one for whatever reason
<sebsebseb> ,but that one doesn't  effect me. 
<sebsebseb> micahg: also warning or not,  I guess things will be more family friendly  by either moving it to a seperate package, or  removing it from the repo.   As far as I know Ubuntu is meant to be family friendly. 
<micahg> sebsebseb: yeah, you should probably file a bug...idk why it's done this way in Ubuntu
<micahg> sebsebseb: ah, it was just done in Debian...
<sebsebseb> micahg: Bug report yeah maybe at some stage,  well messing around with accounts isn't fun you know resetting passwords that kind of thing.   However in a way :D, what kind of Desktop Linux user am I,  if I still haven't done a bug report for anything after  using Desktop Linux since Fedora Core 2 in 2004. 
<micahg> sebsebseb: request a merge from debian and explain why
<sebsebseb> micahg: Well if  the issue gets fixed, I hope it gets fixed in that repo in all the supported verisons of Ubuntu at the time. 
<sebsebseb> oh I don't know how to do that?   You mean on the bug report or? 
<micahg> sebsebseb: yeah like this: PleaseÂ mergeÂ <sourcepackagename>Â <debian-version>Â (repository)Â fromÂ DebianÂ <repository>Â 
<sebsebseb> micahg: hrm bug/merge report,  maybe tommorow
<sebsebseb> bug report / merge request
<sebsebseb> micahg: Thanks
<sebsebseb> micahg: :)
<micahg> sebsebseb: np, you should follow the general instructions here if you want it in Lucid though: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#General%20Instructions
<sebsebseb> micahg: oh the freeze is also for the repo's not just the user interface? 
<micahg> sebsebseb: yep
<micahg> this is a feature change I would think
<sebsebseb> micahg: well I guess I knew that, but  I been mainly thinking about the user interface freeze, and how some changes happended after woulds even so
<sebsebseb> micahg: well ideally the change should go into the Hardy,  Jaunty, and Karmic repo's as well, since they will still be suppored for now as well, but of course it's more important to get it into Lucid. 
<micahg> sebsebseb: we don't make changes like that for stable releases
<sebsebseb> micahg: oh?    and yeah that's what I thought, security updates only from the stable version repo's
<micahg> sebsebseb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<sebsebseb> micahg: right so basically got to get it into Lucid before the final release, or it won't happen? 
<sebsebseb> for Lucid
<micahg> sebsebseb: right
<sebsebseb> micahg: ok thanks again
<micahg> sebsebseb: np
<Laibsch> I'm trying to compile a package in a karmic pbuilder chroot.   http://paste.debian.net/64687/ is what I get.   I don't quite understand what is the problem with a virtual package.   guile-1.6-dev seems to available just fine
<geser> Laibsch: do you have universe enabled in your pbuilder? 
<Laibsch> hm, good question
<Laibsch> I just recreated it from scratch
<Laibsch> so probably no
<Laibsch> I'll log in to pbuilder and see
<Laibsch> thanks
<Laibsch> geser: right on the money, thanks a million
<sebsebseb> micahg: By  the way Mandriva do something similar to Ubuntu at the moment when it comes to that,  but also no package warning :(
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-18
<ryanakca> Could someone please ack bug 538283 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538283 in turnin-ng "Please merge turnin-ng 1.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538283
<Laibsch> I'm seeing the symptoms described in bug 385139 in a karmic pbuilder.   I believe it is preventing pbuilder from successfully setting up the build environment.   Does the bug speak to anyone around here? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385139 in ubuntu "[Karmic] ldconfig.real empty files" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385139
<fabrice_sp> jayvee, np ;-) And you'd better get used to quilt: source 3.0(quilt) uses ... :-)
<fabrice_sp> quilt
<Rhonda> fabrice_sp: No, it doesn't.  It is a completely unrelated (and in parts also different) implementation of the same idea. 
<Rhonda> It's one of the bad misnamers in software history, unfortunately. 
<Rhonda> Said that, it should though hopefully work well together when one wants to use quilt directly instead of the dpkg internal approach. 
 * Rhonda .  o O ( in the meantime) )
<RainCT> morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey RainCT! 
<happyaron> hi, is there any document introducting dh7 features and usages? 
<\sh> moins
<RainCT> happyaron: http://joey.kitenet.net/talks/debhelper/debhelper-slides.pdf
<happyaron> RainCT: thanks
<RainCT> hey \sh
<RainCT> happyaron: You're welcome.  Those are slides from a DebConf talk (so not really explained) but I found them helpful nevertheless. 
<\sh> hey RainCT
<Rhonda> fabrice_sp: Did you see my paste to your query? 
<christoph_debian> is that launchpad mailgateway time-sensitive as well or just still broken in 0.93
<christoph_debian> anyway if anyone wants to second -> #540838
<nigelb> Rhonda: you about? 
<Rhonda> nigelb: Never.  Usually It's better to just ask your question - maybe even someone else could answer. :) 
<nigelb> Rhonda: I think I fixed the foolishness I was doing ;)
<Rhonda> \o/
<nigelb> no wonder they say debian has a bit of a barrier
<nigelb> its so tough ;)
<hyperair> debian is tough? 
<Laney> hard as nails
<nigelb> hyperair: finding documentation for stuff is
<hyperair> imo centos is tougher.  it's busy screwing you over even while you're not making mistakes. 
<hyperair> nigelb: isn't debian well documented? 
<hyperair> like manpages and such
<nigelb> hyperair: for packaging stuff? 
<hyperair> sure it is! 
<Laney> policy and devref
<Laney> job done
<hyperair> man dh_stuff
 * hyperair nods
<Laney> naaahhh dh is optional
<Laney> cf manoj packages
<nigelb> or may be I'm just baaad at packaging
<nigelb> I seem to make all sorts of mistakes
<Laney> it's called learning
<Laney> you'll get better
<nigelb> its embarassing, but I'm swallowign my pride for infinity
<hyperair> Laney: manoj packages? 
<nigelb> oh joy!  gwibber depends on python-wnck, not in debian yet
<Laney> hyperair: packages maintained by manoj
<hyperair> Laney: no dh?  that sounds scary. 
<Laney> depends how good you are at make...
<hyperair> Laney: well... i imagine something on the level of cdbs's source..
<Laney> they're quite clean actually, at least ucf which I looked at
<Laney> anyway bbiab
<dupondje> Its prolly way to late to get a new package version into Lucid ? :) 
<nigelb> dupondje: very late I think
<dupondje> its not even in debian sid neither, so would not even be a sync request.  Better package it myself and put on my ppa :P
<nigelb> dupondje: better get it into debian
<nigelb> will by synced for lucid+1
<nigelb> dupondje: what package anyway? 
<dupondje> audacious :)
<dupondje> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=559055
<ubottu> Debian bug 559055 in audacious "audacious: New upstream version available (2.2.0)" [Wishlist,Open]
<dupondje> There is a new upstream version available since Nov 22.  => lazy asses :)
<nigelb> I think you can do an NMU, but a DD could give better opinion on that
<dupondje> eh ? :) 
<nigelb> non-maintainer upload
<dupondje> anyway, is there a quick/easy way to package new upstream version?  or its just fetch source, copy debian dir, adjust it & package ? 
<\sh> bdrung: ping eclipse ;) do you know how to solve Exception in thread "main" java.lang. UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-gtk-3555 or swt-gtk in swt.library.path, java.library.path or the jar file
<bdrung> \sh: you have to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the xulrunner path
<\sh> bdrung: hmmm?  on x86_64 with openjdk-6? 
<bdrung> \sh: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.2 (or similar) -> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=291758
<ubottu> bugs.eclipse.org bug 291758 in PackagingTools "[eclipse-build] SWT's browser code can't see XULRunner libraries on Debian unstable" [Normal,New]
<DktrKranz> dholbach: ubuntu-dev-tools 0.96 uploaded in Debian
<mok0> DktrKranz: impressive.  ubuntu-dev-tools has a wickedly long chain of dependencies
<mok0> DktrKranz: many of which were -0ubuntu1 AFAIR
<DktrKranz> mok0: well, it's not the first upload in Debian, I already did many
<dholbach> DktrKranz: awesome! 
<DktrKranz> (and yes, there are four rdeps)
<mok0> DktrKranz: I tried backporting ubuntu-dev-tools to jaunty, but had to give up
<DktrKranz> hehe
<mok0> DktrKranz: many new dependencies were introduced since then
<DktrKranz> yeah, with LP integration and API, you need several lazr* and launchpadlib
<mok0> DktrKranz: exactly
<mok0> DktrKranz: well done! 
<DktrKranz> but I packaged them already ;)
<c_korn> an Ubuntu package in Debian ?  what secret conspiracy is this ? .) 
<DktrKranz> thanks ;)
<mok0> DktrKranz: I have my notes on my laptop, so I can't exactly remember where I gave up
<Laney> we should really move stuff to devscripts
<DktrKranz> +0,9
<mok0> DktrKranz: ... but it was on the 10th or 12th package in the chain...
<DktrKranz> (missing 0.1 is for some scripts really Ubuntu-specific)
<Laney> but they don't have python scripts there afaik
<Rhonda> hyperair: Actually, it isn't scary at all.  Just take a look at the rules file of netris, the package is small enough to do a quick apt-get. ( and it's not manoj)
<Rhonda> apt-get source of course. :) 
<Rhonda> And it helps to find out what's actually going on behind the curtain of dh. 
<mok0> You don't want to look at dh... it is explosive and is likely to cover you with scraps of incomprehensible chunks of perl goo
<DktrKranz> Laney: exactly, just perl (IIRC)
<Laney> I find joeyh's perl pretty readable tbh
<mok0> I wrote a perl program once... about 2 hours after I wrote it, it was already impossible to figure out what it was doing
<mok0> :-)
<DktrKranz> mok0: it's not your fault, it happens :)
<mok0> Heh
<Rhonda> mok0: That's why there is no dh in netris packaging. 
<DktrKranz> I once wrote a Python program, but it self-exploed because of my bad PEP-8
<mok0> Rhonda: Ah, respect! 
 * mok0 forgets the python urbanities... PEP-8? 
<DktrKranz> coding style
<DktrKranz> URLly http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<mok0> Ah... white space
<mok0> DktrKranz: The only really sucky thing about python... otherwise I love it
 * mok0 wonders, since Python has an opening brace, why can't it have a closing one? 
 * DktrKranz doesn't like parenthesis
 * Rhonda throws scheme at DktrKranz 
 * mok0 is hoping for a ';' as the ending brace
<DktrKranz> Rhonda: LISP also
 * mok0 looks a ((((((DktrKranz))))))
 * DktrKranz hides
<Rhonda> DktrKranz: lisp is a scheme dialect. 
<mok0> Rhonda: ... hmmm
<Rhonda> The other way round? 
<Laney> yes, the other way around
<mok0> Rhonda: that would be my guess
<mok0> :)
<dyfet> lisp is the mother tongue
<DktrKranz> no
<DktrKranz> mother tongue are butterflies
<mok0> scheme is GNU's version of common lisp afaik
 * Rhonda prefers script-fu anyway when such a thing is needed. 
<mok0> Rhonda: you a bash man? 
<mok0> :-)
 * Rhonda bashes bash
<Rhonda> mok0: perlmonk :)
<mok0> Rhonda: Oh dear
<nigelb> how does multiple binary packages work? 
<nigelb> I need to have a separate install file for each package? 
<nigelb> err.. binary
<mok0> nigelb: no, just create a section in control for each of them
<nigelb> thats it? 
<mok0> nigelb: yes
<nigelb> so the intallation and stuff/
<mok0> nigelb: then you use debian/install and friends to put files in their respective packages
<nigelb> It was intially debianized as single binary
<nigelb> now, I get to know that it should be split to work properly
<mok0> nigelb: you need files debian/install.<packagname> for each package
<nigelb> aha :) thank you
<Rhonda> nigelb: Yes, debian/$package.install is the way to go for multiple binaries (and the control file snippet, but that part hopefully is the obvious part)
<mok0> nigelb: you're welcome :-)
<Rhonda> mok0: Erm â¦  Your approach isn't the best one. :) 
<nigelb> NM's are discouraged from working with multiple binaries, should that be a problem as long as my sponsor is willing? 
<Rhonda> debian/$binpackage.$foo is used by debhelper for the different parts. 
<mok0> Rhonda: educate me
<dupondje> nigelb: seems it wasn't packaged because it needs a new lib, that isn't in debian/ubuntu yet :(
<Rhonda> So one can has debian/package1.install, debian/package2.menu, and so on
<nigelb> dupondje: ah, well, so you cant get into debian either
<mok0> Ah, yes, package.install not install.package.. my bad
 * mok0 needs coffeine now
<Rhonda> nigelb, mok0: Some example, see the filelist here: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-games/wesnoth.git;a=tree;f=debian;h=29cd8f81facdf1dc38f9bd7abe14701b9a6f442c;hb=8eebb4
<dupondje> nigelb: well the lib is in debian exp, just needs some time it seems :(
<mok0> Rhonda: right
<nigelb> Rhonda: ah, thats great.   examples were what I needed.   ty :)
 * Rhonda .  o O ( and that file list will be getting extremely more confusing with the next commit.   %-) )
 * Rhonda .  o O ( thinking of, I guess I should leave off the "generated" files out of that repository. ) 
<mok0> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> mok0: Pong
<mok0> ScottK, hi, I'm looking at an important bug in Atlas, that may have been resolved
<mok0> bug 363510
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 363510 in atlas "Errors in single-precision BLAS (libatlas3gf-sse)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363510
<mok0> ScottK, I need an FFE for that
<ScottK> Looking
<mok0> ScottK, It means a jump in version from 3.8.0 to 3.8.3
<mok0> ScottK, OTOH, we wont need to backport the fix
<mok0> ScottK, and maintain this outdated library for 3 years
<ScottK> OK.   Still reading the bug. 
<ScottK> mok0: I think you mean 3.6.0 -> 3.8.3. 
<mok0> ScottK, uhm yes
<mok0> ScottK, I am building the package now, if the test program works, I propose to sync it
<ScottK> mok0: Do you know why Debian has it in Experimental? 
<mok0> ScottK, No... the last comment on the LP page is from the maintainer, so I suppose he thinks it's ok for ubuntu
<mok0> ScottK, the whole 3.8.3 series is in exp. 
<ScottK> mok0: libatlas-base-dev has 13 reverse build-depends.   You'd need to deal with the entire transition. 
<mok0> ScottK, hm
<ScottK> mok0: Generally, if the newer atlas is mature, I do think it makes sense to move forward, but you need to look at the entire atlas stack and make sure we aren't fixing one thing and breaking 5 others. 
<mok0> ScottK, of course... it's more rdepends that I thought
<Laney> I think I saw talk of an atlas transition for Squeeze
<mok0> Laney: and... ? 
<Laney> you should ask if the Debian people know of any issues
<ScottK> mok0: I'd suggest do test rebuilds and lay out a complete plan for one FFe. 
<ScottK> As long as it tests out OK, I think we should probably go ahead. 
<mok0> ScottK, OK, sounds reasonable
<Laney> they might be willing to hear your bugs so that their transition goes easier
<Laney> etc
<mok0> Laney: sure
<mok0> ScottK, several important packages are in the list of rdepends, R for one; perhaps that is why the package is still in experimental
<mok0> ScottK, it's worse, you need to look at the rdepends of package libatlas3gf-base
<ScottK> Oh my. 
<mok0> ScottK, I think libatlas-base-dev is the old version of libatlas
<mok0> ScottK, doesn't look realistic for Lucid, huh? 
<ScottK> Yes, I was looking at current reverse-build-depends in Ubuntu, not Debian experimental. 
<ScottK> mok0: For the ones that are run time depends (and not build depends), I suspect testing a sub-set of them would be sufficient if it goes well. 
<ScottK> You might ask upstream about 3.6 -> 3.8 binary compatibility. 
<mok0> ScottK, ok, I will investigate it
<siretart`> mok0: ScottK: is the backporters meeting scheduled for now or in 1h? 
<mok0> siretart`: heh
 * ScottK looks at mok0. 
<mok0> siretart`: It's actually 18:00 UTC now, but I think I made a mistake when scheduling the meeting
<siretart`> so, what do we do now? 
<mok0> On the fridge, it says 19:00 UTC, so perhaps we should wait
<siretart`> TBH, that would suit me better, I could then have dinner right now :-)
<mok0> siretart`: great
<mok0> I will stick around #ubuntu-meeting in case anyone else shows up
<siretart`> excellent.  thanks
<mok0> siretart`: enjoy you meal :-)
<siretart`> thanks :-)
<duanedesign> reviewing RC bugs Debian has closed I have found one that affects Lucid and it hasnt been merged. 
<duanedesign> i am still learning the motu processes so I am unsure about what I should do next? 
<geser> Have both Ubuntu and Debian the same upstream version? 
<micahg> duanedesign: have you seen this: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/bugs/rcbugs/lucid/
<duanedesign> micahg: yes.  That is where I found the bug :)
<micahg> duanedesign: k, I thought it was cool and just saw it today, so thought I'd mention it :)
<duanedesign> micahg: sure.  I just found it a couple of days ago.  Well I didnt find it p_ersia told me about it
<duanedesign> geser: ubuntu has 0.5-2.2 and Debian unstable has 0.5-2.3 .  I opened a bug report on it.  bug 541446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541446 in ttf-okolaks "Sync ttf-okolaks 0.5-2.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541446
<geser> duanedesign: have you verified that it builds in a lucid environment (a lucid pbuilder)? 
<duanedesign> geser:heh, I only verified the bug.  Ill verify the fix as well..
<geser> please subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" when you are done to add it to the sponsoring queue
<Fersure> debuild is saying that it can't find my 'secret key'.  how would I sort this out?  can't see anything in the docs
<Fersure> (totally new to packaging for ubuntu.  following the PackagingGuide on the wiki)
<BlackZ> Fersure: are you used the same name in export DEBFULLNAME ? 
<BlackZ> have*
<Fersure> yep
<BlackZ> Fersure: gpg --list-keys
<BlackZ> is it in the list? 
<geser> either use the same name, comment and email address in debian/changelog matching one of your key uid or tell debsign which key to use
<Fersure> BlackZ: yes
<ChogyDan> Fersure: did you put a comment in your key?   I made the mistake of not having a blank comment
<Fersure> oh um yes I did
<Fersure> so I should create the key again leaving a blank comment? 
<Fersure> how would I delete the key I currently have then?  o.o
<ChogyDan> then as geser said, you have to write the comment out in the changelogs also, or just remake the key without the comment.   I think there are other tricks
<BlackZ> Fersure: yes, or you can modify it instead
<Fersure> how?  I'm a total noob when it comes to gpg. 
<BlackZ> Fersure: however I suggest you to re-create it and then re-try
<Fersure> okay. 
<porthose> Fersure, or for a quick fix you can just use the -k<keyid> option with debuild
<BlackZ> Fersure: for more information, you can read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<Fersure> Ah excellent.  Thanks. :) 
<duanedesign> geser: i verified it builds in a Lucid pbuilder and the fix works.  is there anything else I need to do other than subscribing "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug? 
<geser> no (perhaps be patient :)
<duanedesign> geser: thank you very much.  Just happy to be helping and learning more about packaging/MOTU
<Anzenketh> I am trying to learn how to create a debian package from scratch is there a newer version of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<diwic> Hmm...I've done "apt-src install pulseaudio", "apt-src build pulseaudio", then made a change to src/modules/alsa/alsa-source.c, then ran "make", then trying to run the pulseaudio wrapper script (src/pulseaudio), but the change wasn't there.  What did I do wrong? 
<sladen_> diwic: 'debuild -b -uc -us' && dpkg -i ../pulseaudio.* 
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-19
<diwic> sladen_, sure, but debuild rebuilds from scratch and takes lots of time.  I'm just trying to be more productive by running "make" instead (which takes a few seconds when you've only changed one source file)
<micahg> diwic: debuild -nc
<diwic> micahg: thanks, that seems to go much faster, still not as fast as make though (it seems to do "relinkning" of some kind)
<diwic> and then all the dh_ stuff at the end
<diwic> also, with make I can use "make -j3" to make it faster on my triple-core CPU, is that possible with debuild as well? 
<Laney> you can pass -j to debuild
<Laney> -jX
<diwic> Laney, nice :-)
<diwic> Laney, perhaps I should study the man pages for dpkg-buildpackage and debuild closer
<crimsun> diwic: install and configure ccache, too.  You may also want to put /var/cache/pbuilder/build on tmpfs
<crimsun> diwic: and ~/.ccache
<diwic> crimsun, thanks for the tip :-)
<diwic> crimsun, btw, Jaroslavs wakeup patches are in Lucid now, right? 
<crimsun> diwic: no
<diwic> crimsun, how come? 
<crimsun> they're only available in linux-alsa-driver-modules in ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev
<crimsun> a bit too intrusive
<diwic> ok
<crimsun> I really wish I had access to some surround sound hardware; it's a pain to debug this pulse business remotely :(
<crimsun> and I'd like to stab cs46xx hardware for being so busticated.  Even worse than many HDA controllers, which is flippin' impressive! 
 * crimsun wanders off toward cs46xx_lib.c
<jayvee> Laney: honestly surprised that debuild doesn't default to something like -j2. 
<diwic> crimsun, as for the stabbing, that's also hard to do remotely ;-)
<wzssyqa> hi,i am using debian format v3,and have a patch in debian/patches.how to edit rules? 
<Linux000> How would I write a script to run at install time(like the triggers) when installing a Debian package(.deb)? 
<micahg> PKGNAME.preinst or PKGNAME.postinst
<RAOF> Linux000: preinst, postinst, prerm, postrm are the four scripts that do that. 
<Linux000> Thanks
<Linux000> Where would I put those? 
<Linux000> Nevermind, google always helps:)
<RAOF> micahg: Any joy on the gjs front? 
<micahg> RAOF: sorry, no haven't had a chance yet..spent an hour on another build failure w/out a solution though....
<RAOF> :(
<RAOF> Ok. 
<RAOF> I'll upload work-around packages now then. 
<micahg> RAOF: yeah, probably a good idea
<RAOF> Why do IDEs feel the need to have splash screens? 
<micahg> RAOF: so people don't think nothing is happening? 
<RAOF> Then start up faster, damnit! 
<micahg> RAOF: that would be nice :)
<RAOF> Also... not a monospace font?   What crack are you smoking, anjunta? 
<RAOF> Oh, well.   It obviously heard me.   Merely loading up the preferences pane sets a monospace font. 
<micahg> what's the way to manually do a merge? 
<RAOF> Grab the ubuntu bzr tree, grab the sid bzr tree, bzr merge. 
<RAOF> That's one option.   Alternatively, you can grab the respective source packages and manually merge the changes; meld is good for that if you go that route. 
<micahg> RAOF: are there branches for experimental? 
<RAOF> I think there are, yeah. 
<RAOF> Give it a try! :) 
<jariq> I am trying to build a package of daemon that depends on libraries/packages that are not included in ubuntu repositories.  I made packages for libraries but I am not sure how to tell pbuilder to first install these libraries when building daemon package.  Any help is appreciated. 
<persia> jariq: You need to put them in some repository that pbuilder can access from the sources.list in the chroot. 
<geser> you need a repository with them (can be a local one, a PPA or completely external)
<jariq> I thought the same.. thanks a lot
<geser> or alternatively build the package manually (dpkg-buildpackage -b) inside the pbuilder (as I'm lazy and need the new packages only once or twice)
<mok0> Riddell: ping
<\sh> bdrung, are you planning a sync from debian to ubuntu regarding eclipse 3.5.2? 
<bdrung> \sh: yes
<\sh> bdrung, nice :)
<mok0> OT: Do you like the fantasy of 5-year old boys?  Check out http://axecop.com it's hilarious.  I am still chuckling after exploring the site this morning...
<Riddell> mok0: you pung? 
<mok0> Riddell: yeah, it's about bug 533042
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533042 in hardy-backports "Backport subvertpy_0.6.9-1 from karmic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533042
<mok0> Riddell: where can I see the backport script? 
<ScottK> mok0: Sorry for missing the backporters meeting yesterday.   Right as it was starting I get side tracked by a $WORK phone call. 
<mok0> ScottK: I realized something like that had happened
<mok0> ScottK, but siretart and myself had a good chat :-)
<mok0> I will schedule a new meeting in a couple of weeks.  Need to check out easter and such first
<ScottK> mok0: The big issue we have compared to Debian backports is the lack of not automatic.   There was a spec to change this for Lucid, but mvo did not have the time for it. 
<mok0> ScottK, I see
<mok0> ScottK, still a good idea.  But we need to make sure that the guis play nice with it
<ScottK> So we have to enforce backports should just work, meaning rdepends have to work. 
<ScottK> For Debian, they don't insist on that. 
<mok0> I see
<ScottK> It means easier backporting, but if you just install everything from backports, there will be problems. 
<ScottK> This is OK for them due to not automatic and also they aim at a more technical user base. 
<mok0> I think there is no easy solution
<mok0> We need to stay away from some very basic components
<ScottK> My experience with this is it takes some dedication to testing. 
<ScottK> In the case of bzr, the bzr developers keep a PPA.   It'd be nice to engage them and see if that could be used as a staging/testing area for backports. 
<mok0> ScottK, yes, otoh, there aren't many bug reports on backported packages
<ScottK> mok0: Yes, but that's because we've insisted on at least basic testing. 
<mok0> ScottK:  it is already, they provide a bunch of backports
<ScottK> Right, but use that as a gateway to Ubuntu backports. 
<ScottK> Test it there and then get it in  Ubuntu backports
<ScottK> I did once give in and allow an svn backport without testing all the rdepends.   There were a LOT of bug reports over that one. 
<mok0> ScottK, I am concerned that things will not happen if the procedure is too convoluted
<ScottK> It turns out the ones we tested weren't the ones affected by the ABI changes. 
<ScottK> Agreed. 
<mok0> There is not way we can guarantee that there won't be any problems, and that is made quite clear when backports is activated
<mok0> -> no way
<ScottK> Certainly.   It's a balance of risk and benifit. 
<ScottK> OTOH, with the ongoing clamav effort I'm involved in, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Clamav - we've gained experience to know where we have to test every single package and where we can test just a few. 
<mok0> ScottK, what exactly do you mean by "testing"? 
<mok0> ScottK, because it is really hard to check every aspect of a piece of software
<ScottK> So I think, for the example of bzr, the bzr devs could likely tell us where the risks are and what needs to be updated with bzr/tested. 
<mok0> ScottK, I agree
<Riddell> mok0: groovy, sorted
<ScottK> mok0: For backports, the standard has always been builds, installs, runs.   I think that's enough testing. 
<mok0> Riddell: cool, thanks! 
<ScottK> Generally if it's going to explode, it does it right away. 
<ScottK> We test things a lot more thoroughly for clamav, but I don't suggest we require that as a general case. 
<mok0> ScottK, wrt bzr, the main app works in my hands.  I've used the same port for weeks without problems. 
<mok0> ScottK, it's the plugins that need testing
<ScottK> mok0: OK, find out from the bzr people what needs to be updated with it and then see about getting them tested. 
<ScottK> I doubt it will take long once you find out which ones they are. 
<mok0> ScottK, My ambition is to use exactly those packages that the bzr team has for hardy in their ppa
<mok0> It's a handful only
<ScottK> mok0: I suspect that's the right list.   I'd just like to get someone from bzr to say that. 
 * ScottK nudges lifeless. 
<mok0> ScottK, I will see if I can get hold of one of those guys
<ScottK> IIRC I just poked at one. 
<mok0> ScottK, hm, nomen est omen
<mok0> "lifeless"
<mok0> :)
<hakaishi> Hi, is there a way to remove a package from revu? 
<hakaishi> is there? 
<hyperair> you can archive
<hakaishi> hyperair: to archive doesn't mean it'll be removed...
<hyperair> hakaishi: it'll be removed from the front page/main listing
<ScottK> hakaishi: Once it's archived, there's an option to nuke the package entirely.   You may have to ask someone else to do this if you don't have it available to you.   Archive it first to see. 
<hyperair> hakaishi: but otherwise, no,  i don't think there's a way to remove it
<hyperair> oh there is? 
<hyperair> =O
<hakaishi> ScottK: I have tried this nuke option a view times, but it's still there.  It doesn't seem to change anything at all...
<ScottK> hakaishi: What package? 
<hakaishi> ScottK: qt-shutdown-p. It's uploaded to debian and already has a newer version
<ScottK> hakaishi: Checking. 
<hakaishi> ScottK: In Debian I've had to rename it.  It's now called qshutdown
<ScottK> OK. 
<hakaishi> http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/shutdown-qapps.html
<hakaishi> ScottK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
<ScottK> hakaishi: I tried to nuke it too and it wouldn't go.   I wouldn't worry about it too much, as long as it's archived, it won't get reviewed. 
<ScottK> We need a REVU admin to figure out why it won't go away. 
 * persia looks
<ScottK> mok0: Are you a review admin? 
<mok0> ScottK, yes
<ScottK> Ah.   nevermind mok0, persia got to it first. 
<persia> More eyes don't hurt :)
<persia> Nuked fine for me.   Dunno. 
 * mok0 < lunch
<persia> Can anyone else see it? 
<ScottK> permissions issue? 
<persia> Quite possibly. 
<hakaishi> thank you persia.  Thank you all ^^
<persia> Would need a REVU Hacker to dig through the logs to be sure. 
<ScottK> It's gone now.   That's for sure. 
<persia> Yes.   Very gone. 
<hakaishi> see you, bye bye :)
 * mok0 > burp
<mok0> Did you solve the REVU problem? 
<mok0> Ah yes good
 * mok0 < coffee
<lfaraone> If a package has a patch applied in Ubuntu, and the patch was applied upstream in Debian (with no other changes on Debian's side) does it make sense to request a sync or should we wait for A) the next cycle or B) when they make some important changes :)
<persia> Either A) or B), whichever comes first. 
<persia> otherwise it's just a waste of archive-admin time. 
<nigelb> what does the Replaces: filed in control file do? 
<persia> nigelb: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-replaces
 * nigelb fails at hunting through docs
<filip> hi :)
<filip> any ideas why this pinning doesn't work: http://pastebin.com/ZvzbNXmr ? 
<filip> it does on another machine just fine, and I am unable to spot the difference
<geser> missing Release file perhaps? 
<filip> geser: I do have it in the archive
<filip> geser: and I am able to install things from this archive
<geser> and both machines have the same Release file? ( as I see it's a file:-repository)
<geser> did you run "apt-get update" after pinning? ( not sure if it's needed but I needed also some attempts will it worked when I last setup pinning)
<filip> geser: yes I did
<jariq> This may not be the right channel but I know there are C gurus here :) I've got a huge problem: My_app uses openssl1.0 as shared library and also uses unixodbc as shared library.  Unixodbc loads postgresql driver that depends on OTHER VERSION of openssl0.9.8.  And that is the point where my app segfaults.  Any ideas how to fix this?  Why can't my program use two versions of same shared library?  Scheme is: openssl0.9.8 <---> pgsql <
<geser> you don't need a C guru a library expert
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Feature Freeze in effect | Lucid Beta 1  Released!  | Want to get involved with the MOTU?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<nigelb> debian bug 515054
<ubottu> Debian bug 515054 in galrey "No images to process..." [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/515054
<nigelb> A fix was reported in debian last year.   Is this worth an nmu so we can sync it next time? 
<nigelb> can someone guide me on changing to source format 3.0 on a package? 
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: like changing from old format to 3.0 or vice versa? 
<nigelb> old format to 3.0
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: ah no idea there :)
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: #ubuntu-packaging might know how tho
<nigelb> I didn't know there existed such a channel
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: its a shiny new channel
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: a closely guarded secret
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: its quiet most of the time but youll probably get a answer here or there
<nigelb> I'll stick here since there is a chance of someone reading scroll back
<hyperair> nigelb: echo '3.0 (quilt)' > debian/source/format
<hyperair> nigelb: that's all there is to it. 
<hyperair> nigelb: well there's also the de-patch-system-ization
<shadeslayer_> hyperair: really?  i knew that but wasnt sure :P
<nigelb> hyperair: thats exactly that I want, modifying the rules file
<hyperair> shadeslayer_: yeah, that's all there is to it, but if you have a patch system, you have to remove it. 
<shadeslayer_> hyperair: and is there a doc on the new rules file? 
<nigelb> the package uses quilt now
<shadeslayer_> all the new stuff with dh and dh --with-quilt
<hyperair> nigelb: use a quilt patch system, drop whatever patch system build-dep in the debian/control, and remove any patch/unpatch things in debian/rules
<nigelb> thats it? 
<hyperair> shadeslayer_: --with=quilt
<hyperair> nigelb: yes. 
<nigelb> o_0
<hyperair> shadeslayer_: and you should get rid of that when going to 3.0 (quilt)
<shadeslayer_> hyperair: oh yes... im new to the format
<shadeslayer_> ok
<hyperair> nigelb: dpkg-source will take care of the rest. 
<hyperair> nigelb: the next time you debuild or whatever, it'll generate a 3.0 package. 
<shadeslayer_> hyperair: so is there a doc on the new format? 
<nigelb> no need to say 3.0 in control? 
<hyperair> nigelb: no. 
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: nah
<nigelb> cool :)
<hyperair> shadeslayer_: there is, but i'm lazy to look for it. 
<nigelb> how do I add a new patch then? 
<hyperair> shadeslayer_: it's easier to just vomit out whatever i have in my head, since there's so little. 
<shadeslayer_> hyperair: lol.. ok ill pester you tommorow then :D
<hyperair> nigelb: the same way you do for a normal quilt patch system. 
<nigelb> aha :)
<hyperair> nigelb: the difference is when the patches are applied. 
<shadeslayer_> my exams get over tomorrow and then ill learn the new stuff :D
<nigelb> hyperair: build versus unpackage? 
<hyperair> nigelb: in 1.0, the patches are applied by debian/rules.  in 3.0, the patches are applied by dpkg-source when unpacking. 
<hyperair> nigelb: yeah. 
<hyperair> shadeslayer_: good for you.  my exams are in approximately a month. 
<nigelb> hyperair: thank you for the quick lesson :)
<shadeslayer_> nigelb: btw how long did you use ubuntu before becoming a member? 
<nigelb> shadeslayer_: 1 year
<hyperair> that's pretty fast
<hyperair> i took a few. 
 * ejat poke hyperair .. 
 * hyperair dodges
<ejat> hyperair: when is your next semester brake ? 
<hyperair> ejat: may. 
<ejat> hyperair: can u conduct a packaging @ patch class for us
<ejat> :p
<hyperair> ejat: haha maybe.  see how. 
<ejat> i just have a few in my ppa .. not like u :)
<hyperair> ejat: i'll probably end up showing you the debian policy manual =p
<ejat> may ?  a few month to go ..
<hyperair> ya
<ejat> :(
<hyperair> hehe
<ejat> at least hands on / sample packaging  @ patching ..
<hyperair> just apt-get source packages and see how it's done
 * ejat not for me .. but for the other member :)
<hyperair> =p
<ejat> :p
<nigelb> should I be seeing "W: galrey source: quilt-series-but-no-build-dep"? 
<nigelb> hyperair: ^
<hyperair> nigelb: did you echo 3.0 (quilt) into debian/source/format? 
 * nigelb headdesks
<hyperair> hehehehehe
<nigelb> now I get "E: galrey source: unsupported-source-format 3.0 (quilt)"
<nigelb> is that because I'm doing this in karmic? 
<hyperair> you need a new lintian
<nigelb> so upload would get through fine right? 
<hyperair>  *** 2.3.3ubuntu2~karmic1 0 500 http://linux.ntuoss.org karmic-backports/main Packages
<hyperair> use karmic-backports and install the new lintian
<nigelb> okay, now I only have "E: galrey source: missing-build-dependency quilt"
 * nigelb pokes hyperair
<persia> nigelb: Try in a lucid chroot.   I suspect that's a dpkg bug. 
<hyperair> nigelb: are you sure you have a 3.0 package there? 
<persia> Or insufficient removal of the patch system. 
<hyperair> nigelb: did you remove the quilt bits from the debian/rules? 
<nigelb> I removed the build dep, removed patch and unpatch from rules, and did the echo
<persia> nigelb: Did you check for any include in debian/rules that may need to be removed? 
<nigelb> "include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make" has to go? 
<nigelb> persia: ah
<hyperair> nigelb: check if you've got a ../package_version.debian.tar.gz
 * hyperair sighs
<nigelb> yeah, I do
<hyperair> yeah it was that include
<hyperair> i thought i told you to remove all trace of the patch system =\
<hyperair> traces*
<nigelb> I mistakenly thought that quilt 3.0 and that was related
<persia> quite the opposite, actually. 
<nigelb> persia: look at what just happened.   found an ubuntu patch.  now, I'm uploading debian fix.   irony
<persia> Why? 
<hyperair> what irony? 
<persia> Was it not a bug in Debian? 
<persia> Did it not need fixing? 
<nigelb> bug upstream, needed fixing, yes
<nigelb> irony is.   we started at reducing the number of reviewers subscribed bugs to <200 and here I am fixing 1 bug (which is good btw)
<persia> Why upload in Debian, rather than getting it all the way upstream? 
<persia> Yeah, that happens :)
<nigelb> persia: getting to debian was self reasons of getting something to debian
<hyperair> getting things into debian should always be the first choice =p
<hyperair> because syncs are sexy. 
<persia> hyperair: No.   Getting stuff upstream should be the first choice. 
<hyperair> er.  right. 
<persia> Because syncs + no patches in packaging are even sexier. 
<hyperair> sorry, i had the wrong context. 
<hyperair> =p
<hyperair> agreed. 
<nigelb> duploading to mentors now :)
<persia> Mind you, I agree we should always let Debian know about the issues and share the patches.   I just don't think the job is done just because Debian is informed when we're doing patch review. 
<nigelb> Oh great mentors just rejected my upload
<hyperair> lol
<nigelb> Your .dsc file (galrey_1.0.2-4.dsc) mentions a file named
<nigelb> 'galrey_1.0.2.orig.tar.gz' which is part of the source package
<nigelb> that isn't in the repository apparently
<hyperair> debuild -S -sa
<hyperair> the -sa is important. 
<hyperair> even if you use dpkg-buildpackag
<hyperair> e]
<hyperair> it makes the .orig.tar.gz get uploaded
<nigelb> ah, never knew
<hyperair> haven't you ever uploaded to a PA? 
<hyperair> PPA*
<nigelb> nope
<nigelb> only attached debdiffs to bug reports
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> i see. 
<nigelb> wonder why I dont get a mail after so long
<nigelb> any DD's around to sponsor a fix in debian? 
<micahg> nigelb: I thought there was a way to upload NMUs w/out a sponsor
<micahg> with a delay
<nigelb> micahg: its a QA upload
<micahg> nigelb: so it's orphaned? 
<nigelb> micahg: yup.   I asked on debian-mentors channel.   They said, just do a QA upload
<iulian> One cannot upload anything to the official Debian archive without being either a DD or DM. 
 * hyperair would like to become a DM, but is in a place too geographically remote to get a signature. 
 * nigelb is worried about that too
<AnAnt> hyperair: I have the same case
<hyperair> AnAnt: i suspect it's not uncommon. 
<hyperair> what a troublesome policy. 
<AnAnt> I was told to at least get a signature from someone that is in web of trust
<hyperair> yeah exactly. 
<iulian> hyperair: I had the same problem as well. 
<hyperair> but there is nobody around this region within that web of trust. 
<AnAnt> hyperair: did you search on biglumber ? 
<hyperair> AnAnt: what's that? 
<AnAnt> http://biglumber.com/x/web
<hyperair> hmm cool
<AnAnt> hyperair: there are 14 names in China
<jorgerosa> hello all
 * hyperair coughs
<AnAnt> hyperair: I guessed from your name
<hyperair> AnAnt: if i were in china i think it would be easier to find DDs. 
<hyperair> AnAnt: i've never been to china. 
<hyperair> AnAnt: i'm malaysian, studying in singapore. 
<AnAnt> hyperair: I think there is a DD in Malaysia
<hyperair> and i have never experienced natural winter before. 
<hyperair> wait, there is? 
<hyperair> last i checked, there wasn't. 
<hyperair> ejat: do you know any DD in malaysia? 
<AnAnt> hyperair: sorry, I was mistaken
<AnAnt> well, there are 8 names in singapore
<hyperair> ah well
<hyperair> nevermind
<nigelb> yaay
<nigelb> 1 DD in my city
<hyperair> heh how nice
<nigelb> when I get to that stage, that would help
<hyperair> hmm come to think of it, i wonder if mario behling is connected to debian's web of trust. 
<hyperair> he's been around here a few times
<jorgerosa> Is anyone here able to upload games (or submit for review, etc... I dunno) to ubuntu repository? 
<AnAnt> hyperair: if you know his key ID, you can check it
<hyperair> AnAnt: heh i don't. 
<hyperair> i'll go poke him the next time i see him
<AnAnt> hyperair: you can search for it, if you know his email
<hyperair> i think he doesn't have one =O
<nigelb> how to check if a person is in the web of trust? 
<AnAnt> nigelb: try checking his key on http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/stats/<keyID>.html
<AnAnt> nigelb: or you can use keyanalyze tool from signing-party package
<nigelb> AnAnt: what is the keyID there? 
<AnAnt> nigelb: replace it iwth the GPG keyID of that person
<nigelb> AnAnt: the short ID? 
<AnAnt> yup
<nigelb> ugh, how do I find that
<nigelb> I only see the finger print
<AnAnt> ? 
<nigelb> CC18 3BF4 9D17 1DA7 E11E 67D3 1729 F586 6A9F 3C38 ? 
<AnAnt> gpg --list-key <person>
<AnAnt> nigelb: is his key in your keyring ? 
<nigelb> nope
<AnAnt> nigelb: I think you can search for his key using the fingerprint
<nigelb> aha :)
<AnAnt> nigelb: try it
<nigelb> AnAnt: doing now :)
<nigelb> AnAnt: gpg --search-keys <fingerprint> not working
<AnAnt> do you know his email ? 
<nigelb> yeah
<jpds> nigelb: The short ID, is the last 8 digits of the fingerprint; ie.  6A9F3C38
<MTecknology> Any chance you guys have any ideas what is causing this compile error?  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/41314423/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.nginx_0.8.34-0ppa4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<nigelb> jpds: ah, thanks :)
<nigelb> so how do I figure out if that person is in the web of trust? 
<MTecknology> "error: 'ngx_http_request_t' has no member named 'utf8'" This is the best I can figure out in the errors but I don't know what's causing it
<jpds> nigelb: http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/
<nigelb> jpds: I got to that page, but how do I figure it out? 
<AnAnt> nigelb: http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/stats/<keyID>.html
<jpds> nigelb: See if someone's key is signed by DDs basically. 
<nigelb> i.e. @debian.og? 
<AnAnt> nigelb: the guy is a DD ! 
<nigelb> wait, all DD are trusted right? 
<nigelb> and anyone who got signed are trusted again? 
<AnAnt> nigelb: usually, yes
<nigelb> like DD signs my key, then I can sign someone else's key and they are also trusted? 
<AnAnt> nigelb: I think so
<^arky^> Any chance of getting this bug 541721 fix into lucid now ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541721 in dots "dots crashed with GError in __init__()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541721
<geser> ^arky^: why subscribing ubuntu-release?  ubuntu-sponsors is more correct as you don't need a FFe or similar (just someone sponsoring)
<ScottK> geser: I just removed the release team. 
<^arky^> geser: sorry, didn't know that
<^arky^> geser: thanks for subscribing ubuntu-sponser team
<crimsun> ^arky^: in the future, please remember to also modify debian/control given that you've introduced a new Ubuntu delta
<crimsun> ^arky^: uploaded, thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu Lucid! 
<crimsun> would someone add me to ~ubuntu-sponsors, please? 
<^arky^> crimsun: Thank you for quick upload ! 
<^arky^> crimsun: I usually do 'dch -i' thought this would also edit debian/control ? 
<JontheEchidna> dch -i shouldn't ever modify debian/control, afaik
<^arky^> JontheEchidna: then I should always manually edit debian/control after doing dch -i ? 
<geser> ^arky^: update-maintainer
<geser> from ubuntu-dev-tools
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-20
<^arky^> geser: thank you will remember to use update-maintainer in future
<ddecator> can someone familiar with 'ar' look at this and let me know why it returns "ar: two different operation options specified"?:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398155/
<ddecator> (i get this while trying to get sqlite to build for songbird)
<persia> ddecator: I think you7re missing an instruction.   I think you need `ar r ${FILES}` or similar.   I may be mistaken. 
<ddecator> persia: i'll give that a shot.  thanks
<persia> ddecator: man ar : you man need some modifiers (e.g. "rc" rather than "r")
<ddecator> persia: thanks.  i'm not very good at figuring out when to use which arguments for what yet, haha
<persia> The trick is with older programs like tar or ar where the '-' is optional for passed options. 
<persia> e.g. `tar xf ...` and `tar -xf ...` are equivalent.   Woe betide the person who tries to deal with xf.tgz unprepared. 
<ddecator> of course, now i get the fun of what script is causing it to revert back to 'ar' instead of 'ar r'
<persia> Really, `ar r` may not be complete. 
<persia> And I'm not a big ar user, I just read the manual, so I could be completely wrong. 
<persia> So my recommendation would be to play with ar and make sure you understand which command you want. 
<persia> Only then does it make sense to fiddle the build scripts. 
<ddecator> i'll do that once i can figure out where the makefile is being auto configured so that any changes i make are reverted...
<persia> Usually in ./configure
<ddecator> right, it's just a huge file, haha
<ddecator> oh wait..
<ddecator> looks like it's supposed to use 'ar cr' but the conditions aren't right or something...heading in the right direction though
<persia> cr or rc would make sense, based on the manpage. 
<ddecator> what the...even the configure file got reconfigured on me
<persia> Do you have configure.in or configure.am ? 
<persia> If so, those are the culprits .am -> .in ->
<persia> If not, check debian/rules (or for a new package, INSTALL) for guidance. 
<ddecator> it's just "configure" there is no "configure.am" or "configure.in", but there are "config.*"  files and a "configure.ac"
<persia> check configure.ac, but check debian/rules and INSTALL
<ddecator> configure.ac is blank...
<ddecator> nvm
<ddecator> typed the name wrong, haha
<ddecator> i'm not used to using terminal for everything...
<ddecator> yah, even configure.ac is being autoconfiged
<ddecator> even config.cache is resetting...
<ddecator> nope, never mind, making progress...
<persia> Really, check INSTALL or debian/rules.   It will explain how the build happens. 
<ddecator> i setup the rules file for this part of the build, not sure where the INSTALL file is located
<ddecator> i've identified the problem as $(AR) not being defined correctly, but i can't find where it's defined
<persia> might be an implicit define : check the make manual (no, not man make, but the real manual)
<ddecator> aha, i think i figured it out.  thanks persia
<ddecator> yup, that did it =)
<persia> Great. 
<anzenketh> Hello i was wondering where there is more information in regards to the rules file.  Or a updated version of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<anzenketh> I am trying to make a package from scratch
<hyperair> anzenketh: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html <-- see section 4.9
<hyperair> you're advised to use debhelper though
<anzenketh> I plan on using debhelper
<hyperair> man dh
<anzenketh> basicly so far I have run dhmake edit the changelog edited control and edited copyright
<hyperair> dh_make's debian/rules is hopelessly outdated. 
<anzenketh> ahh
<hyperair> just rm it and copy the one from /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
<hyperair> you'll have to bump debhelper's version in build-depends to 7.0.50 as well
<anzenketh> Do I still want to use dh_make to make the other files
<anzenketh> Or is there a new updated way to create all of the debian files
<anzenketh> Basicly I am looking for the best place to learn how to create my first ubuntu package from scratch. 
<persia> hyperair: Don't need 7.0.50 for rules.tiny: only 7.0.0.   7.0.50 is for overrides. 
<persia> anzenketh: I'll really put this on a wiki page soon, but here's the recipe:
<persia> 1) mkdir -p ${package}/debian; cd ${package*
<persia> 2) echo 7 > debian/compat; cp /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny debian/rules
<persia> 3) dch --create to generate debian/changelog
<persia> 4) create debian/control based on policy 5.2
<persia> 5) create debian/watch based on man uscan
<persia> 6) uscan to get the latest sources; unpack; move debian/ in there. 
<persia> 7) review *all* the files and generate debian/copyright (DEP5 is nice)
<persia> 8) build the source and fix bugs as you find them
<anzenketh> persia: how up to date is the maint-guide obtained though sudo apt-get install maint-guide
<persia> anzenketh: Looks like it hasn't changed in at least a year. 
<persia> anzenketh: Check the changelog for more. 
<anzenketh> looks like sep 2008 how much would I be missing on that becosue the wiki is not up to date the maitnance guide is not up to date
<persia> Both the maint-guide and the wiki will give you usable instructions. 
<anzenketh> Basicly would I know enough to sucessfuly create a package
<anzenketh> ok
<persia> Following my quick guide above may or may not be easier/faster depending on your upstream source. 
<anzenketh> It is a rather complecated package
<persia> why? 
<anzenketh> It is amahi I am trying to port it over to ubuntu.  Complecated due to it includes inits and adds to the bins
<anzenketh> but that is about the complexity of it
<persia> What do you mean "adds to the bins" ? 
<ddecator> just for the record, i found the MOTU videos to be helpful, even if they are outdated ;)
<anzenketh> Ya I watched those too I understand everything but rules
<persia> For includes inits, dh_installinit should do the job, and rules.tiny runs that automatically. 
<persia> Really, unless you need something special, use rules.tiny. 
<persia> It works 90% of the time without extra thought. 
<anzenketh> Basicly this package is a ruby source with some c creates some init.d files and most the files go to /usr/bin and changes some config files and adds some directories
<persia> Adding init.d files and putting files in /usr/bin is fine (as long as it doesn't conflict with other files there). 
<anzenketh> it won't
<persia> Changing configuration files is only allowed if those configuration files are specifically related to your package.   Changing conffiles is futher only permitted if the user hasn't changed them manually. 
<anzenketh> the tiny will create the directories as long as i have them specified right? 
<persia> rules.tiny will install everything in the places specified by the upstream build system install rule. 
<persia> You can use debian/amahi.install to add anything that is missing. 
<sebner> hyperair: grrrrr, 87MB updates and no banshee :\
<anzenketh> ahh ok
<sebner> huhu persia :)
<anzenketh> I think I will give it a wearl
<persia> anzenketh: It does assume the upstream build system just works.   If that's not true, it's worth fixing it upstream. 
<directhex> sebner, i'm not leaning on anyone since 1.5.6 is due within hours-ish
<sebner> directhex: wasn't that the same with 1.5.5 ^_^
<directhex> sebner, ywah, but there was a freez
<directhex> also, b-c-e clearing NEW is good news for us
<sebner> directhex: freeze, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
<sebner> directhex: sure
<hyperair> sebner: hmm? 
<directhex> since it means archive admins can just trust debian & don't need to spend any time on ubuntu NEW
<sebner> directhex: well, waiting for next week then :)
<sebner> hyperair: ~~~ = 0_o = ~~~~
<hyperair> sebner: it's in the PPA =D
<sebner> hyperair: we need archive! 
<directhex> hyperair, is b-c-e in the PPA? 
<hyperair> directhex: er no it isn't. 
<hyperair> directhex: should we upload b-c-e to ubuntu? 
<hyperair> directhex: or do we have something we have to wait for... oh wait, stupid question. 
<directhex> hyperair, we need to wait for banshee to be synced, but given how imminent 1.5.6 is meant to be, i haven't leaned on anyone to sync 1.5.5
 * hyperair sighs. 
<hyperair> oh well. 
<hyperair> let's hope 1.5.6 doesn't go the same way as the previous two. 
<Laney> patience, lads
<Laney> i expect syncs will be done at the start of the week
<hyperair> o yay. 
<hyperair> i'll be internetless for the next two days or so
<hyperair> make that one and a half days. 
 * Laney pats hyperair 
<Laney> it'll be alright in the end, I promise
<directhex> download the internets onto your hard disk so you aren't disconnected! 
 * hyperair weeps
<hyperair> to maximize the clicheness of this moment, i suppose i should be burying my face in Laney's chest and bawling my eyes out
<directhex> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/7/1/
<hyperair> ._.
<hyperair> sign language? 
<muelli> hey folks :) I want to package a Python application which brings some public modules.  It's called Volatility (from http://code.google.com/p/volatility/) and I have some problems with the packaging: setuptools installs everything as ./lib/python.../site-packages/ but Python in Ubuntu does not have site-packages in their PYTHONPATH.  Does anybody know how to make setuptools install stuff in dist-packages? 
<anzenketh> persia: looks like i need to do it the hardware upstream does not have a build system. 
<persia> Do you know where things belong? 
<anzenketh> I can tell from the RPM .spec file
<persia> Ugh.   Then you have to do the same hack in packaging. 
<persia> man dh_install, and put stuff in debian/amahi.install
<anzenketh> does the amahi.install allow commands like install -m 755 -p file   directory
<persia> anzenketh: No.   It allows commands like "bin usr/bin" which then expands into the right set of install -m ... calls. 
<persia> So it's much more concise: it's just sources and destinations, and doesn't bother the user with the actual implementation details. 
<anzenketh> ok good that means most of it was done right previously
<anzenketh> how does the amahi.install know what permitions to give file? 
<persia> It uses the permissions from the source.   Later dh_fixperms goes though and tries to clean up. 
<anzenketh> ahh ok time for me to learn the CDBS
<persia> Why? 
 * persia currently recommends against CDBS for new packaging : rules.tiny achieves the same goals, and is easier to debug
<anzenketh> ok
<anzenketh> so how would I compile a c file
<anzenketh> it has one c file it needs to compile
<persia> And that compilation happens in the .spec file? 
<anzenketh> yes in %prep it has a %setup -q and a make hdactl-hup
<persia> Ugh. 
<persia> Well, you can do that by adding an override_dh_auto_build: rule to debian/rules
<persia> But the *better* way to do it is to make an upstream Makefile that does the right thing. 
<persia> And then to share that for both types of packaging. 
<persia> That way if it needs to be adjusted, it only needs to be adjusted in one place. 
<anzenketh> I agree
<anzenketh> now I need to think of a way to define upstream build system. 
<persia> vi Makefile ? 
<filip> can I debuild an i386 package on an amd64 system? 
<kklimonda> yes
<persia> Um, no. 
<filip> ;)
<persia> One can use sbuild or pbuilder to generate i386 packages on an amd64 system. 
<filip> you got me confused a bit :P
<persia> One cannot use debuild alone
<anzenketh> persia:  so a build something is something like a standard config and makefile
<persia> anzenketh: Sure.   Or setup.py or build.xml, or ...
<anzenketh> ugh upstream author refuses to make a build system. 
<anzenketh> Ehh oh well
<persia> Then you get to duplicate code :(
<anzenketh> Yep
<anzenketh> He states it is 20 times more work and it never updates
<anzenketh> Which may be true it is a old fedora package
<persia> It's precisely the same amount of work, and half as much as duplication, *but* it's a bunch of work to migrate from package hacks to a real Makefile. 
<persia> So for now, just work around it. 
<persia> If enough people like amahi on Ubuntu, you will have leverage to share code between .spec and debian/rules in ./Makefile
<anzenketh> Well it was already semiported I am just updating the port.  And as it is there is duplicates of the same file. 
<anzenketh> Due to some require specific code in fedora and some specific in ubuntu. 
<persia> There's no good reason for that.   The code should be able to use lsb_release to figure out which distribution it's using, and do the right thing. 
<anzenketh> I would agree
<persia> Then make your version do that, and submit patches upstream :)
<muelli> oh, okay.  my bad: setuptools installs correctly in ./dist-packages/ for python2.6 but cdbs
<persia> Less maintenance overhead in the future. 
<muelli> ' install stage moves it to site-packages... ? 
<persia> muelli: Is this a new package, or are you trying to fix a bug? 
<muelli> persia: a new package. " Volatility" from http://code.google.com/p/volatility/. I'm not used to package stuff at all btw...
<persia> muelli: OK.   So my recommendation is: if CDBS doesn't do what you want, use rules.tiny instead. 
<muelli> persia: hm.  a quick google for that resulted in bug reports only.  Do you have some more information or pointers to more information about that? 
<persia> muelli: cp /usr/share/doc/debhelper/rules.tiny debian/rules and `man dh`.   Ask in #ubuntu-packaging if you get stuck. 
<muelli> persia: thx.  will have a look
<muelli> heh.  funky rules file -.- And the best thing: It (nearly) does what I want!  holy cow! 
<persia> muelli: Are you using python-support?   There should be a built-in dh_pysupport call if you are. 
<shadeslayer> so... is there someone here who can update me with the latest 3.0 format? 
<shadeslayer> like point me to a doc..
<muelli> persia: Sorry.  I don't know whether I'm using "python-support".  I started from scratch calling setup.py myself from the debian/rules, but I thought it was wrong.  So I tried cdbs which messed installation up and now I'm using your rules.tiny. 
<persia> muelli: Add python-support to Build-Depends: in debian/control
<muelli> persia: k. right now I put debhelper, cdbs, python-setuptools and python-central.  But I will get rid of cdbs and python-central in favour of python-support, I guess. 
<muelli> persia: btw: shall we move this to #ubuntu-packaging? :) 
<persia> Even odds.   If you're planning to push this package into the main repos for lucid+1, it's equally on-topic in either place. 
<muelli> persia: k :)
<muelli> oh, and I wouldn't mind pushing that but for now I only want to distribute that program easily using the great PPA system :) But I'm willing to do the right^tm steps so that the package is ready for inclusion.  And would keep spending my time caring about it. 
<persia> For PPA stuff, #ubuntu-packaging is more on-topic : this channel is about working on Ubuntu directly
<Anzenketh> persia: Thanks for your help I think i convinced him to change to cmake in the future for a packaging system. 
<Anzenketh> but right now he wants to do it this way
<persia> Anzenketh: That's fine.   In my experience the best way to get someone to change their code is to patch it to do it the way you want, and still work the way they want, and share the patch. 
<Anzenketh> that is basicly what I will be doing is creating the patch to merge over to cmake and do it the way he wants for now. 
<Anzenketh> that requires me learning cmake
<persia> I think make is easier, and powerful enough for what you're doing, but cmake could work. 
<Anzenketh> well his comment when i said cmake was that will help with a windows port
<Anzenketh> I just rolled my eyes
<persia> it's true.   cmake probably has better Windows support than make. 
<Anzenketh> I noticed somewhere if it is installing to a standard directory I only have to specify the file correct? 
<Anzenketh> or do I have to specify the path in the package.installer file
<persia> I recommend using a variable to define the path, so that the various packaging systems can overrride the variable to whatever they need. 
<Anzenketh> I like that idea
<Anzenketh> also reduces mistakes
 * Anzenketh is looking for a example of that
<Anzenketh> persia:  do you know of a good source I can look at to learn from on doing this
<persia> I know nearly nothing about cmake.   Sorry. 
<Anzenketh> no not cmake the amahi.installer file
<muelli> persia: which patch system do you suggest?  I used cdbs' simple-patchsys so far but it doesn't work know anymore after I included simple-patchsys: the clean target is messed up. 
<persia> muelli: I've been using quilt lately, but I'm increasingly tempted by using Format: 3.0 (quilt) and not having a patch system at all (while still using quilt for local patch management). 
<muelli> persia: can I easily make quilt work with rules.tiny? 
<persia> Yeah. 
<persia> Two ways: 1) use Format: 3.0 (quilt), 2) replace "dh $@" with "dh --with quilt $@".   Pick one.   Don't use both. 
<Anzenketh> how do I make debuilder stop at creating the build directories in the temp files? 
<persia> Anzenketh: Why do you want it to stop? 
<Anzenketh> So I can verify the build directories are created correctly
<persia> Anzenketh: Just check the build log. 
<Anzenketh> That is right that is there. 
<Anzenketh> persia: How do you compile one file that is in c in the rules file. 
<persia> Anzenketh: Add an override_dh_auto_build: rule to debian/rules.   Add the compilation instructions from the spec file in that rule. 
<Anzenketh> so something like this
<Anzenketh> override_dh_auto_build:
<Anzenketh> make hdactl-hup
<Anzenketh> make hdactl-hup is all that was in there before. 
<Anzenketh> well in the .specs file
<persia> Well, try that, and see if it works. 
<persia> If it doesn't work, then you may have to track down something else fom the .spec file. 
<Anzenketh> ok
<Anzenketh> Thanks a lot for your help persia I am sure what I learn to this I will contribute 10 fold to some other ubuntu package
<Anzenketh> And I am learning A ton
<Anzenketh> persia: can you do variables in a package.install and if so how to do disclare them. 
<persia> You can't. 
<persia> But since you know the location of the source, and you know the destination, you shouldn't need it. 
<Anzenketh> ok
<Anzenketh> I was just wondering to reduce typos
<Anzenketh> not that there will be many it is actualy a small package
 * abogani waves Anyone could review my merge proposal https://code.launchpad.net/~abogani/ubuntu/lucid/avrdude/avrdude.fix-529444/+merge/21640 Thanks! 
<Anzenketh> if i call dh_installinit and dh_installcron I should not have to install them in the package.install right? 
<persia> Anzenketh: dh $@ will call them automatically. 
<persia> but read the individual dh_* manpages to be sure of behaviour
<Anzenketh> ok cool
<Anzenketh> it states note Note that this command is not idempotent.  dh_prep(1) should be called between invocations of this command.  Otherwise, it may cause multiple instances of the same text to be added to maintainer scripts.  but dh $@ should take care of that right? 
<Anzenketh> that is for dh_installinit
<persia> dh $@ should take care of that.   You can always check what it will do with `dh --no-act ${COMMAND}`
<Anzenketh> persia: when I run that command I get dh: specify a sequence to run or dh: Unknown sequence dh_installcron (choose from: binary binary-arch binary-indep build clean install)
<persia> Right.   You need to use one of binary, binary-arch, binary-indep, build, clean, or install for ${COMMAND}
<Anzenketh> oh ok
<Anzenketh>  it goes dh_installinfo -a    dh_installinit -a    dh_installmenu -a
<Anzenketh> but it is only called once
<Anzenketh> and I have 2 init files
<muelli> How can I make debuild produce an architecture independent .deb?  It's pure python after all.. debin/control has Architecture: any set. 
<lifeless> set it to all
<lifeless> have a look at the packaging guides for the meaning of Architecture - or debian policy, the primary reference for packaging
<Anzenketh> persia: I need to so things post install what is the best way to do that? 
<persia> Anzenketh: What sort of thing do you need to do? 
<persia> Also, if you ask questions generally, someone else may answer faster :)
<Anzenketh> Sorry Looks like the .spec has a post install that changes permitions of files and directories in addition to running a scruot
<Anzenketh> script
<Anzenketh> So basicly post install I need to run a shell script
<persia> OK.   Permissions changes can be added with something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/398306/ in debian/rules
<persia> What does the script do? 
<Anzenketh> Looks like it changes permitions and ownership of files.  Then goes though and moves some files for post configuration.  Then restarts some services. 
<Anzenketh> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398308/ that is the script
<persia> OK.   Permissions/ownership you do with stuff like my paste. 
<persia> You *cannot* do the stuff that changes the samba configuration. 
<persia> (you'll have to work with samba differently)
<persia> Same for openvpn
<persia> and httpd
<Anzenketh> Is there a way to tell the installer to run a shall script post install? 
<persia> and the apache user
<persia> Yes, but first I'm going to tell you the bits that need adjustment :)
<Anzenketh> Ya I know some permitions are off
<persia> the %preun stuff and the hdactl.cache changes can be done in maintainer scripts. 
<persia> Not permissions.   You can't mess with other packages. 
<persia> http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts is the best document for maintainer scripts I know. 
<persia> I believe dh_installinit will do the service restart. 
<persia> The cache stuff may need manual additions. 
<Anzenketh> ok so for permitions change I can use the pastbin for the cache stuff I can do maintainer scripts
<Anzenketh> Just to clarify There is no wat to change config files of other packages
<persia> It is in direct contravention of policy. 
<persia> Many packages provide a programmatic way to adjust configuration under certain circumstances. 
<persia> I believe both apache and samba fall into this category. 
<persia> Read the documentation for those packages: you may be able to do something useful. 
<Anzenketh> So once I find that programic way how would I have the debian install run those commands. 
<persia> In the maintainer scripts. 
<Anzenketh> ok
<persia> Note that if the packages you need to adjust *don't* already include such a thing, you'll need to work with those packages to enable such a tool. 
<Anzenketh> And I can not run commands like sed correct? 
<persia> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-config-files
 * abogani waves
<abogani> Anyone could review my merge proposal https://code.launchpad.net/~abogani/ubuntu/lucid/avrdude/avrdude.fix-529444/+merge/21640
<abogani> Thanks! 
<nigelb> anyone noticed trouble with submittodebian? 
<nigelb> I said that patch has been submitted, but I dont see anything in the bug report
<lfaraone> I was wondering if anybody had the time to review the merge proposal attached to bug 540934? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540934 in lshell "The default configuration lets a user run every system command" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540934
<DktrKranz> persia: I prepared a preliminary UDD query to display mismatches between sha1sums from Debian and Ubuntu, output is http://merkel.debian.org/~dktrkranz/unmatch_sha1sums
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.   That's not bad at all.   I'll take a look through them, and see if I can't identify some candidates to get back in sync for lucid+1
<DktrKranz> persia: I'll adjust a bit more to be in a better display format and then ask lucas if it can be pushed as UDD cgi
<persia> DktrKranz: Don't worry about it.   I think I can hit about 50% of it one-off, and the rest is probably relatively unfixable without deep social engineering. 
<persia> I actively recognise most of these packages as being special in one way or another. 
<persia> I may ask you for an update near DIF of lucid+1, but won't need it again until then. 
<DktrKranz> ok
<persia> Adding it to UDD cgi just raises attention to it, and in many cases, we don't want that. 
<DktrKranz> script is on merkel.  so I can run anytime
<persia> (because the reason for the variation may reflect badly on Ubuntu<->Debian relationships)
<persia> Perfect.   Thanks. 
<DktrKranz> if you want, I can adapt it to be run on a machine not restricted to DDs
<DktrKranz> (alioth, that is)
<persia> I certainly don't need that.   If there's another user who wants it, or if you have an interest in doing so yourself... :)
<DktrKranz> Not that much, as I use merkel for UDD hacking ;()
<persia> Well then :)
<persia> But thanks again: as a one-time run, this is hugely useful to me. 
<nigelb> is submittodebian broken? 
<lfaraone> nigelb: please elaborate. 
<nigelb> I followed the instructions but nothing updated on bug
<nigelb> and it seems to be diff-ing only the changelog and not the changes made to package
<lfaraone> nigelb: it won't modify your bug, it'll submit a new bug to debian. 
<nigelb> thats strange because it searched debian bugs and asked me which bug this patch corrected
<nigelb> I'm not talking about reportbug
 * lfaraone will brb, no idea about your problem, it worked for me :)
 * nigelb will try again
<abogani> Anyone could review my merge proposal https://code.launchpad.net/~abogani/ubuntu/lucid/avrdude/avrdude.fix-529444/+merge/21640 ?  Thanks! 
<nigelb> aha, my submittodebian troubles spring from sendmail I think
<nigelb> which I have no clue to fix
<ryanakca> Could someone please take a look at bug 538283 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538283 in turnin-ng "Please merge turnin-ng 1.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538283
<crimsun> ryanakca: Uploaded; thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu Lucid! 
<ryanakca> crimsun: thanks
<duanedesign> if or current version is 0.32.4-12ubuntu1  and the new upstream is 0.34.1-1 that would make our new package 0.34.1-1ubuntu2 ? 
<duanedesign> s/or/our
<geser> duanedesign: almost, 0.34.1-1ubuntu1 as it's the 1st change to 0.34.1-1 (but contains all the unmerged colltected Ubuntu deltas)
<duanedesign> geser: thank you.  I had a feeling I was thinking about that wrong :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-03-21
<dupondje> A bug in non-english, mark it as invalid or incomplete ? 
<ScottK> dupondje: Ask in #ubuntu-bugs
 * Laney spanks whoever gave ghc6 back on armel
<anzenketh> Is there a way you can install a icon on the desktop dh_desktop says it does something with icons but does not install them to the desktop. 
<Anzenketh> I get a error when I try to run override_dh_auto_build was that removed in a newer version? 
<nigelb> I just fixed a bug in debian.   Need to wait till it gets to testing before sycning? 
<ScottK> nigelb: No. 
<ScottK> You just need to explain why we want it in the sync request. 
<nigelb> ok.   The trouble is I dont see the new version in packages.debian.org.   I only see the old version
<ScottK> How long ago did it get uploaded? 
<nigelb> 1 day
<ScottK> What package? 
<nigelb> http://packages.debian.org/sid/galrey
<nigelb> I keep seeing 3rd rev here
<nigelb> oh, wait.   its just my cache not refreshing.   bah
<ScottK> nigelb: rmadison knows about -4, so it'll show up there.   Sometimes it takes a little while. 
<ScottK> rmadison -u debian galrey
<nigelb> okay :)
<MTecknology> If I'm building a package that has no debian version, should I still add ubuntu1 to the package version? 
<nigelb> yep 0ubuntu1
<MTecknology> thanks
<MTecknology> there we go - all uploaded
<MTecknology> err - I guess it's supposed to close a launchpad bug..
<MTecknology> what's teh right way to make a bug report like that? 
<MTecknology> apport or just make it myself? 
<nigelb> sync request? 
<MTecknology> new package
<nigelb> new package need not close a bug report.   thats in debian I guess
<MTecknology> The changelog does not close a bug from Launchpad.  New packages should have a needs-packaging bug and the upload close it using the syntax "(LP: #nnnn)". 
<ScottK> New package would need a feature freeze exception at this point. 
<MTecknology> I could upload it for +2 too, doesn't matter to me
<MTecknology> I just want to remove it from my ppa and make it easier for the rest of the world
<MTecknology> If I'm not uploading for lucid, what should I upload for? 
<nigelb> MTecknology: oh yeah.   just open a normal bug.   but you need ffe though
<nigelb> or else wait for lucid+1
<nigelb> or, get it into debian
<nigelb> if you get it into debian, will be synced for lucid+1
<MTecknology> It's been waiting in debian for a long time, i took it off once (forgot why)
<Anzenketh> I just created a new rules file I get the error make: override_dh_auto_build:: Command not found was that command removed? 
<nigelb> MTecknology: waiting in debian for what? 
<nigelb> new maintainer? 
<MTecknology> ya
<nigelb> point me to the bug, I'll take over
<MTecknology> I should have it close the ITP bug, shouldn't I? 
<nigelb> yes
<MTecknology> I'll fix that up
<nigelb> okay great :)
<MTecknology> how do I search for an ITP? 
<nigelb> MTecknology: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=wnpp
<MTecknology> I kinda wish it was easier to navigate their bug tracking :(
<MTecknology> confuses me frequently
<nigelb> even worse is the bug reporting
<MTecknology> nigelb: thanks
<nigelb> np :)
<MTecknology> Just  * Closes #xxxx ? 
<nigelb> http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<nigelb> there is some detailed instruction if you scroll down
<nigelb> Closes: #11111
<MTecknology> ooh - pretty hilighting must mean it's right
<MTecknology> nigelb: no "  * " before it like the rest of the lines? 
<MTecknology> 1472 outstanding ITP's in debian
<nigelb> MTecknology: you're taking over as new maintainer? 
<nigelb> then say "* New maintainer (Closes: #1234)"
<MTecknology> it's not in debian at all
<nigelb> hold on
<nigelb> then Initial Release would be good I think
<MTecknology> E: lal source: debian-revision-should-not-be-zero 1.1-0
<MTecknology> lintain complained about that
<MTecknology> should it me -1 isntead? 
<nigelb> it should be 1 since its in debian
<nigelb> or rather it will be once you get it in
<MTecknology> is -0 only if it's new to ubuntu and not in debian? 
<nigelb> yup
<MTecknology> makes sense too :)
<MTecknology> nigelb: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=lal
<nigelb> MTecknology: great :) mail the mentors and get it in :)
<MTecknology> nigelb: I sent an RFS for the older package not too long ago
<nigelb> didn't get a sponsor? 
<MTecknology> nope
<MTecknology> give me a minute
<nigelb> change the needs sponsor to Yes
<MTecknology> ya, I had that until I uploaded the new package just now
<MTecknology> ya, my last RFS was thursday
<nigelb> strange.   I uploaded a package to mentors and got picked up in like few hours
<MTecknology> before that was 01/30/10
<MTecknology> I had one person interested for a while but they seem to have disappeared
<nigelb> ah, yes.   I see the mail in my mailbox
<nigelb> ask in mentors channel in oftc? 
<Anzenketh> I am packaging a software that has never been packaged before I am using rules.tiny from the examples.  I needed to overide dh_auto_build so I put it in but I am getting a error  make: override_dh_auto_build:: Command not found
<MTecknology> 21:36 -MentorSeeker:#debian-mentors-/Package 'lal' from 'Michael Lustfield' needs a sponsor (http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/lal/lal_1.1-1.dsc) [dockable clock appler for various window managers]
<MTecknology> nigelb: I just saw that pop up
<nigelb> MTecknology: I know.   just ask if someone is willing to sponsor there
<lfaraone> Anzenketh: paste your makefile
<lfaraone> Anzenketh: (to a pastebin, not to IRC)
<Anzenketh> lfaraone: shure I can past the rules file. 
<Anzenketh> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398568/ there you go
<MTecknology> nigelb: are you a sponsor at all? 
<nigelb> MTecknology: nope.   or else I would have sponsored you :P
<MTecknology> oh
<MTecknology> nigelb: thanks for the tips
<nigelb> I'm just someone like you :)
<nigelb> MTecknology: np.   :)
<Anzenketh> lfaraone: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398568/ there you go
<MTecknology> nigelb: there we go, replied to that message with more information about why it's useful to others
<MTecknology> nigelb: now I just need to wait - hopefully less than another ~4mo
<MTecknology> :(
<nigelb> MTecknology: hehe
 * MTecknology wonders what the chances are of this being uploaded
<MTecknology> What's this stuff about getting my key signed? 
<Anzenketh> I am working on packaging a project that has never been packaged before I need to create directories with specific permittions what is the best way to do that
<Anzenketh> For example I need to create a directory /var/project/files that can be left empty. 
<Anzenketh> But it needs to belong to the users group
<MTecknology> Anzenketh: I think the install command does that
<MTecknology> yup
<Anzenketh> So do I just put that in my rules file? 
<Anzenketh> I am a bit new
<MTecknology> it should be aprt of the Makefile
<MTecknology> otherwise the rules file is a good place for it
<Anzenketh> This package has no upstream makefile
<Anzenketh> Long story
<MTecknology> Anzenketh: I encountered that once, I made a makefile for them with other work and got it merged upstream, was nice
<Anzenketh> Ya that is my next project
<MTecknology> I'd make it the first project ;)
<MTecknology> it'll make writing the rules file much easier
<Anzenketh> The upstream author is demanding that the rules file be writting first
<MTecknology> personally
<MTecknology> :S
<MTecknology> what project? 
<Anzenketh> I would generaly agree with you. 
<Anzenketh> amahi
<Anzenketh> it is a fedora native project. 
<MTecknology> amahi.org? 
<Anzenketh> yep
<MTecknology> not a fan of the navigation - that's a very odd requirement.... considering it's really odd that there's not makefileto begin with
<MTecknology> how do you install it? 
<MTecknology> gcc commands? 
<MTecknology> Anzenketh: sorry I'm no help, just interested
<Anzenketh> Currently it is installed via rpm
<Anzenketh> so there is a .spec file
<Anzenketh> It is a mostly ruby project
<MTecknology> oh...
<Anzenketh> there is only one c file
<MTecknology> maybe holding in rules and no makefile is the better idea :S
<persia> The .spec file *should* be something like control+rules+maintainer-scripts all mixed together.   One ought be able to extract the relevant bits (although this may require some understanding of RPM packaging)
<Anzenketh> yes it is
<Anzenketh> that is how i am getting all this information
<Anzenketh> once I understood that it was a brease
<persia> MTecknology: No, always better to have an upsteam build system, so that one doesn't have *two copies* of everything (one in the .spec file, one in the rules file)
<MTecknology> persia: ok
<Anzenketh> The other reason why I am doing this is becouse I do not fully understand make files yet
<MTecknology> persia: out of curiousity and no pestering following - are you DD? 
<persia> No. 
<Anzenketh> Once I understand this my guess is that all I will need to do is basicly copy the %install of the .spec file and put that in a makefile
<Anzenketh> persia:  by the way thanks for your help last night however overide_dh_auto_install gave me a error when I tried the tiny one
<persia> What sort of error? 
<Anzenketh> hold on. 
<Anzenketh> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398584/ that is the error I get
<Anzenketh> ugh wrong one
<Anzenketh> Had to recreate the file
<persia> That does't say "override_dh_auto_install" :)
<persia> Also, "override" is spelled with two 'r's
<Anzenketh> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398585/
<Anzenketh> there
<Anzenketh> fixed that and still got the error command not found???  I am perplexed
<persia> paste that rules file? 
<Anzenketh> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398587/ thre is the rules file. 
<persia> Anzenketh: Aha.   Replace the tab character before override_dh_auto_install with a carriage return. 
<persia> Anzenketh: Also, you probably want to invoke dh_auto_install in override_dh_auto_install
<persia> Anzenketh: And you want the `make hdactl-hup` call in an override_dh_auto_build: rule, not in override_dh_auto_install:
<Anzenketh> Thanks that fixed that.  now to deal with those two pesky files. 
<Anzenketh> Ok now trying to make it a tiny script need to invoke the command mv $(CURDIR)/debian/hdactl/usr/bin/hdactl.debian $(CURDIR)/debian/hdactl/usr/bin/hdactl
<Anzenketh>  it used to work but now it states that the file does not exist. 
<persia> Why do you want to do that? 
<persia> From where do the .debian entries come? 
<Anzenketh> source
<persia> OK. 
<Anzenketh> but int he program they are called by hdactl when it is run
<Anzenketh> Thus the need to rename
<persia> So why don't you do mv hdactl.debian hdactl
<persia> And then just only put hdactl in debian/amahi.install to put it in the right place. 
<Anzenketh> becouse hdactl is the fedora version hdactl.debian is the ubuntu version
<persia> There's just no point installing the files unless they are already correct. 
<persia> Personally, I'd do something like `mv ${CURDIR}/hdactl ${CURDIR}hdactl.fedora && mv ${CURDIR}/hdactl.debian ${CURDIR}/hdactl` in override_dh_auto_build:
<Anzenketh> Yay that worked a lot better
<Anzenketh> got a question when I run debuilder it compiles the c file but does not remove the compiled version from the source tree when it is done
<Anzenketh> This is causing problems for when I want to compile again how to i fix that
<Anzenketh> Nevermind I figured it out
<persia> Anzenketh: Please add any extra cleanup you need to an override_dh_auto_clean: rule. 
<persia> Lots of folks use sbuild or pbuilder to build in a clean chroot environment. 
<persia> sbuild is set up with `mk-sbuild lucid` and pbuilder with `pbuilder-dist lucid create` in the simple form. 
<Anzenketh> That works a lot better
<Anzenketh> Yay now I think I know enough about package managment that I can help make patches for ubutu bugs
<Anzenketh> Thanks a ton persia
<Anzenketh> if in control the depends line gets too long I need to put in a / right? 
<Anzenketh> Nevermind I figured out the answer is no
<ddecator> can someone familiar with bzr let me know what i get this?:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/398648/
<RAOF> ddecator: That's the the fun that is rich-root. :( 
<ddecator> RAOF: any ideas on what i need to do?  this is the first time i've tried to upload a branch to request a merge
<RAOF> ddecator: Complain bitterly to #bzr, but productive options include: (a) asking mozillateam to upgrade their branch to 2a, or (b) rebranch into a directory that's not a subdirectory of a directory containing a 2a (or any rich-root) repository and then redo your changes. 
<ddecator> RAOF: alright, thanks.  i have a mozillateam member helping me out, so i'll let him know what you said =)
<Anzenketh> I am porting over a package to ubuntu that has never been done before when I attempt to run debuilder I get a error stating that the binary contents have changed. 
<happyaron> how does distutils name its build dir?  I need to set PYTHONDIR to it, but it looks to be dynamic according to arch and host
<happyaron> anyone here? 
<shadeslayer> nigelb: got a minute? 
<warp10> persia: please, could you renew my membership in ~ubuntu-universe-sponsors? 
<persia> warp10: No.   But I'll add you to ~ubuntu-sponsors
<persia> Done. 
<warp10> persia: will ubuntu-universe-sponsors be deleted ASAP, or when everybody is expired? 
<persia> At some point after everyone else expires, I'll get around to deleting it. 
<persia> But I didn't want to spam everyone with join/remove notices. 
<warp10> persia: Indeed.  Anyway, thank you for your help! 
<persia> Thanks for being a sponsor
<nigelb> shadeslayer: yes
<shadeslayer> nigelb: pm
<ScottK> persia: Would you please add me to ~ubuntu-sponsors. 
<persia> ScottK: Done. 
<ScottK> Thanks. 
<iulian> persia: Whilst you're at it, would you mind adding me to the team as well? 
 * persia needs to get less good at closing browser windows
<persia> Grrr.   LP logged me out again! 
<persia> iulian: Done. 
<iulian> persia: Thank you. 
<nigelb> what would be the prerequisite for someone looking for motu membership?  i.e. something like minimum requirements
<Laney> people will start telling you to apply :)
<nigelb> aha ;)
<persia> nigelb: It's deliberately undefined, and typically specific to each individual.   The key determinant is being perceived as part of the MOTU team by other MOTU.   Most folks are expected to have been working in development for at least a full development cycle. 
<nigelb> so lucid+1 should do the trick :)
<persia> Well, like Laney said :)
 * hyperair has seen nigelb working very hard already =p
 * persia was working on development for 4 cycles before becoming MOTU
<nigelb> hyperair: you can say that on my wiki when I go for MOTU application ;)
<hyperair> nigelb: heh.  right =p
<nigelb> oh, btw anyone with some deep python knowledge around? 
<persia> ! ask :)
<hyperair> nigelb: but i haven't perceived you as a MOTU yet (because i've seen your launchpad page recently)
<hyperair> ! ask | nigelb
<ubottu> nigelb: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily).  If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) 
<hyperair> =p
<nigelb> hyperair: well, I just wanted to know for future knowledge
<hyperair> oh so that was the question =p
<hyperair> nigelb: there's DktrKranz. 
<nigelb> give me time to frame
<hyperair> nigelb: generally if you have python packaging questions, drop by #debian-python on OFTC>
<nigelb> I'm creating an apport hook for cheese and running into some trouble getting debug info. 
<nigelb> I think this is has something to do with subprocess. Popen command but I dont know wnough
<nigelb> I know pitti's area but I wanted to know if someone else could help figure out what I'm doing wrong
<nigelb> GST_DEBUG=*cheese*:3 cheese -v through apport.hookutils.command_output()
<hyperair> does popen grab things things from stderr? 
<nigelb> hyperair: my knowledge of python is limited.   I've never tried the subprocess module directly
<hyperair> nigelb: my knowledge of python is even more limited than yours.  i'm just throwing out random ideas for checking
<nigelb> I've got the apport source and python reference open
<nigelb> still lost though ;)
 * hyperair is even less familiar with apport
<nigelb> I'm familiar with apport, I made the rhythmbox hook :)
<nigelb> (if it does something wrong, you know who to /kick ;) )
<hyperair> heh
<l3on> Hi all... someone has news about bug 521834 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521834 in moin "[FFe] Please merge moin to 1.9.2-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521834
<nigelb> I guess I'll ping pitti on monday about apport
<nigelb> hyperair: um, how should a potential MOTU's launchpad page look btw ;)
<hyperair> nigelb: what? 
<hyperair> nigelb: well, +related-software should have loads of things.  but the reason i knew you weren't a MOTU was because i saw you weren't a member of ~motu or ~ubuntu-motu or something like that
<nigelb> hyperair: "i haven't perceived you as a MOTU yet (because i've seen your launchpad page recently)"
<persia> nigelb: There's not much point in that class of question.   Do what you do: if what you do makes MOTU want you to be MOTU, you'll be MOTU.   Anything else is just pushing against the lack of definition. 
 * hyperair agrees with what persia said
<ScottK> nigelb: According to help(subprocess. Popen) is listens to both stin and stderr. 
<ScottK> (if I'm reading it correctly)
<Laney> I kind of stopped seeing upload rights as a goal in themselves a while before I was pushed to apply
<hyperair> just continue developing.  someday whoever you work with will tell you "eh wait, you aren't a motu yet?"  and then you know you're ready =p
<nigelb> hyperair: hehe :)
<ScottK> That or "I'm sick of uploading your stuff, please apply so I don't have to do it anymore"
<hyperair> hehehe that too
<nigelb> persia: oh, it was a harmless query ;)
<persia> nigelb: Yes and no.   Yes, because since there's no answer it doesn't matter, and no, because it means you still believe there are objective criteria :)
<hyperair> i think Laney got sick of me bugging him to upload my things.  =p
<nigelb> ScottK: the trouble is I can't figure how apport deals with this particular situation (I can't see error messages)
<ScottK> nigelb: OK, I'd wait for pitti then. 
<nigelb> situation = the gnome type debugging things
<nigelb> persia: its like ubuntu membership I guess.   You know you're ready when people ask you "hey you're not a member yet?" 
<persia> I think that's how most of the better-organised teams in Ubuntu work. 
<nigelb> yeah :)  Most of them
<kamalm> Looking for a kind soul who can test build this fix pkg ** on ia64 **:  https://launchpad.net/~kamalmostafa/+archive/test-builds/+files/gnome-color-manager_2.29.2-1ubuntu1.dsc    (I just need to know if this actually fixes the FTBFS on ia64).   Any takers? 
 * persia wishes someone would support ia64 as a qemu guest
<lifeless> I will load anyone wanting to do that the linux kernel ia-64 book. 
<lifeless> which discusses a lot of useful stuff for doing that
<persia> kamalm: Just be aware that it may take a while for someone to help you.   I know of only three active developers who have ia64 hardware, and of those one is very firm about not turning it on in the interests of saving electricity. 
<persia> kamalm: You might ask in #ubuntu-ports, not because there are more folk there, but because there is almost no other traffic, so there's a greater chance if it being prominent in backscroll. 
<kamalm> ah, thanks for the warning.    well, I suppose I can just propose the fix as-is, and hope for the best.    at worst, it will just continue to FTBFS on ia64 for some subsequent reason. 
<kamalm> i'll try #ubuntu-ports first, but won't wait long  ;-)
<persia> trying #ubuntu-ports and not waiting long is pointless.   That channel tends to get <100 posts a week. 
<persia> (but most folk idle a long time and may respond days later to backscroll)
<kamalm> persia: ah, okay.   Well, posted there anyway.   Maybe I'll get lucky.     Any other general advice for testing platform-specific fixes like the issue I'm chasing (it *only* FTBFS on ia64)? 
<persia> kamalm: There's usually folk with i386/amd64/armel/powerpc/sparc hardware around to help. 
<kamalm> ah, okay -- i just picked an ugly one then.   :-)
<rgs_> hi guys, I am software developer, I would like to make my software available for the Ubuntu crowd, it is already packagedd for red hat like systems, any pointers? 
<persia> kamalm: You could have done worse.   hppa had 6 users at the time it was retired, only two of which were active developers. 
<kamalm> rgs_: Ubuntu uses a Debian style packaging system, so any documentation about "debian packaging" will be relevant.   Specifically, you might take a look at:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<nigelb> rgs_: if you can work towards getting your package, it would be great.   we could then sync it quite easily
<nigelb> getting your packge *in debian*
<rgs_> yeah, I am looking for some documentation that will let me map my .spec hacking logic into .deb creation logic
<rgs_> sort of when you migrate from subversion to git style of doc :)
<nigelb> ah, I dont think I know of any. 
<nigelb> you can see the debian new maintainer's guide, which is kinda easy
<ScottK> rgs_: IIRC the alien package will ~ do this, but that would just give you a starting place to work towards an actual package worth uploading. 
<ScottK> It's certainly not possible to do a complete conversion (in either direction)
<pochu> doesn't alien convert binary packages (and not source)? 
<ScottK> Not sure. 
<ScottK> The only think I've ever used it for is to alien --tgz a srpm to get the patches out of it. 
<ScottK> It gives you a nice tarball with one patch per text file ready to examine. 
<pochu> the description contains
<pochu>  This is a tool only suitable for binary packages. 
<pochu> but I've never tried to use it with source packages
<ScottK> OK.   Nevermind then. 
<cyphermox> rgs_, my guess is it should be possible to write a script to grab the various parts of a .spec and massage them into the prerm/postinst/etc.  files necessary and a few other chunks of texts that would then make a basis for a debian/rules file.  That's if that hasn't already been done, but I've never heard of it before
<nigelb> thoughts on this debdiff?  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40924067/chromium-browser_5.0.307.9~r39052-0ubuntu2.debdiff
<micahg> nigelb: I'd like to know if it requires an FFe as I need to make a similar change to Thunderbird
<nigelb> micahg: I dont know.   Since I didn't get reply here, I just subscribed sponsors.   their call now
<ari-tczew> please MOTU open task on karmic @ bug 421684
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 421684 in obexd "bluetooth send malformed files " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421684
<crimsun> ari-tczew: is there a clear patch available, or are you still awaiting/working on a patch? 
<ari-tczew> crimsun: I'm working on a patch
<ari-tczew> so directly I can be assigned to task on karmic
<crimsun> accepted for karmic
<ari-tczew> thanks
<crimsun> yw
<micahg> ari-tczew: are you working on the libjdic-java upgrade for xul192 support? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: I can't fix the FBTFS :-/
<micahg> ari-tczew: do you have a build link? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: do you want see a buildlog from merging libjdic-java 0.9.5-7? 
<micahg> ari-tczew: sure
<ari-tczew> w8 plz
<ari-tczew> micahg: is it right?  export JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk
<ari-tczew> IMO should be changed to JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/default-java
<micahg> ari-tczew: idk
<ari-tczew> micahg: huh?  idk?  jdk? 
<micahg> ari-tczew: I don't know
<ari-tczew> ahh
<ari-tczew> I'm not up to date: what happens with sponsors?  ubuntu-sponsors?  wtf? 
<micahg> ari-tczew: yeah, sponsors merges
<micahg> ari-tczew: is there an FTBFS still? 
<ari-tczew> micahg, yes, I'm getting a buildlog for you, but pbuilder doesn't like me today :-/
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, you can email to me if you like.. my nick at ubuntu dot com
<ari-tczew> wrrrrrr what's the right command for pbuilder and output buildlog? 
<ari-tczew> I did: sudo pbuilder build libjdic-java_0.9.5-7ubuntu1.dsc --logfile buildlog.txt and file buildlog.txt doesn't exist! 
<ScottK> Put it between build and the .dsc
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: try sudo pbuilder build libjdic-java_0.9.5-7ubuntu1.dsc > buildlog.txt
<ari-tczew> BlackZ, I'm not sure about your command, but ScottK propose works, thanks! 
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: yeah, it works too
<AnAnt> Hello, I got a problem when I done : sudo pbuilder update --distribution lucid --override-config, I got this error: E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on mountall
<AnAnt> what's that ? 
<ari-tczew> micahg, I have sent email to you
<micahg> ari-tczew: yeah, it looks like it's not passing the right flags for 192...let me pull the source
<micahg> ari-tczew: have you changed it at all? 
<ari-tczew> micahg, I'll send to you my debdiff; but this is not a 192 problem.  with 191 FTBFS exist too
<micahg> ari-tczew: ah, that's bad....
<BlackZ> AnAnt: are you able to do apt-get -f install ? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm looking on Debian WebSVN, what's the different between -3 series and younger
<AnAnt> BlackZ: where ? 
<BlackZ> AnAnt: in a terminal
<BlackZ> with sudo, sorry
<AnAnt> BlackZ: yes, it doesn't say that I need to fix anything (please note that the problem is in pbuilder)
<micahg> ari-tczew: I think it might be a failure with xul>=\1.9.1.7
<micahg> ari-tczew: -fshort-wchar was added then
<micahg> ari-tczew: maybe we can get flags/libs from pkg-config? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: I don't know
<lfaraone> If a python package foo requires A) another package bar to be set up previously and B) python-support triggers for bar need to be run before foo can be set up, how do I enforce that? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: my eyes sees these differents since -3 series: B-D on openjdk-6-jre-headless; debian/rules got export JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk; Add patches/Tray.diff; bumped from xulrunner-devel-1.9 to xulrunner-devel-1.9.1
<lfaraone> (per: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/41539627/DpkgTerminalLog.txt)
<micahg> ari-tczew: try this, replace line 67 in the build.diff patch with: LIBS_PROG += `pkg-config libxul --libs`
<ari-tczew> micahg: doesn't help
<ari-tczew> micahg: I don't have any ideas :-/
<micahg> ari-tczew: probably need the same on line 58, but leave -lgtksuperwin
<ari-tczew> micahg: so: LIBS_PROG += `pkg-config libxul --libs`-lgtksuperwin     is it right? 
<micahg> add a space before -lgtksuperwin
<micahg> I think so...
<ari-tczew> micahg: FTBFS...
<micahg> ari-tczew: yeah, it's not getting all the flags
<ari-tczew> micahg: beside your suggestion I did some changes like bump to xulrunner 1.9.2, replace java-6-openjdk with default-java
<micahg> ari-tczew: you probably need to expand the build patch to get cflags from libxul from pkg-config
<ari-tczew> micahg, ehh I can't do this
<micahg> ari-tczew: do we need the merge? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: not necessarily, current ubuntu's version builds fine, so +1 from me for only rebuild for xulrunner 1.9.2 is enough
<micahg> ari-tczew: fine, I'll work on getting that ported and upstream the pkg-config changes so the next merge should be easy....sound good? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: "next merge should be easy", but before we need to merge this once, right? 
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, you said Ubuntu version is fine, so I'll fix that upstream, and next merge will be for Lucid + 1
<ari-tczew> micahg, OK, I'll waiting, merge request is open so you can own it whenever you want
<micahg> ari-tczew: I'm not going to touch it...
<ari-tczew> mivahg: you will fix it upstream - upstream what?  libjdic-java? 
<micahg> ari-tczew: debian
<ari-tczew> ah
<ari-tczew> ok
<micahg> ari-tczew: I'm only merging now if upstream has xul192 support
<micahg> so, I'll patch current Ubuntu version and if you want, you can merge or wait
<ari-tczew> micahg: as I said previously, merge now is not necessarily, so I'll merge or sync in lucid+1
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, will you be able to test once I port it? 
<kamalm> Question for ubuntu-archive folks:  sync request bug 537708 has been pending in queue for 10 days -- is there anything in particular holding it up?   Thanks! 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537708 in hamlib "Please sync hamlib 1.2.10-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537708
<ari-tczew> micahg: build testing is enough? 
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, I was hoping for usage testing...what program uses it? 
<ari-tczew> micahg: Reverse Depends: paros libjdic-bin
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-14
<lifeless> so the point is - you want to fork
<lifeless> you fork by either:
<lifeless>  - unwinding history (uncommi)
<lifeless>  - making new branches (branch / switch -b)
<kklimonda> ScottK: bug 653619 could probably be marked as a Won't Fix - Backporting Evolution 2.32 to 10.04 requires backporting at least a dozen other packages - new GLib and Gtk+, few other libraries, e-d-s,  modules that evolution uses to provide additional features like Exchange support, most likely evolution-couchdb.. in my opinion it's too risky to push all those updates to all users of -backports, especially given that you can't go back from
<kklimonda>  2.32 (or even 2.30) to 2.28.  That being said I'm probably going to create a PPA with all those packages backported to Lucid so people can stop complaining about us not doing anything, and start complaining about Evo not working. 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653619 in maverick-backports "Please back port Evolution 2.32 to lucid LTS and maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653619
<ScottK> kklimonda: Sounds like a plan.   I'll do so. 
<kklimonda> Also, backporting it to maverick when we are so close to natty release doesn't make sense
<ScottK> Please mark in the bug when your PPA is up and running. 
<kklimonda> ok, will do
<ScottK> That's not really a worth a wontfix for maverick, just a wontgetaroundtoit. 
<ScottK> Done. 
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Hhmmmm. 
<Rhonda> If I want a backport of a package in main, is there any difference in the workflow for me, for requesting it? 
<Laney> no
<Laney> :-)
 * Rhonda gives it a try and expands her field of work, then. :) 
 * Rhonda .  o O ( but I really should ask for PPU rights to irssi (+ logcheck) anyway â¦ )
<Rhonda> If someone wants to give it a try, please test irssi backport to lucid: Bug #734731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 734731 in lucid-backports "Please backport irssi (0.8.15-2ubuntu1/main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734731
<Laney> bdrung cody-somerville geser maco persia DMB? 
<Laney> stgraber too
<bdrung> Laney: yes
<Laney> no quorum
<bdrung> Laney: only the two of us? 
<directhex> pretend you don't need a quorum, and pass what you want anyway </us political humour>
<paultag> directhex: ha! 
<stgraber> Laney: sorry for that but it's way too early for me ;) I can only make it at the other meeting time
<stgraber> Laney: the other meeting time used to be 7am (was still sleeping) and is now 8am (going to the office).  If we can't get quorum again at this time, we probably should consider changing it to a time that's more convinient for everyone. 
<stgraber> as cody-somerville is on the same timezone as I'm, he probably has the same issue (though maybe not the driving to the office part ;))
<Laney> stgraber: yes indeed, we seem to be more US balanced now so maybe moving it a bit later is a good move
<Laney> US/north america ;-)
<stgraber> at least everyone who's in north america is on eastern time, so it should be quite easy to find a time that works for both europe and north america
<stgraber> persia is already used to weird meeting times anyway ;)
<stgraber> in my case, if it wasn't on a Monday and was just an hour later, it'd work fine and would probably still work for Japan and Europe then
<Laney> could you mail the list and set up a doodle poll or something? ( don't forget to cc us newbies who aren't on it yet)
<stgraber> I can at least e-mail suggesting a change of an hour later and asking if we want to change day as well.  Setting up a comprehensive doodle takes quite a bit of time (which I sadly don't have at the moment ...)
<Laney> yeah, sure
<Laney> I don't know how constrained everyone else is so it's a good start
<geser> stgraber: when is DST change in US?  so we don't have to repeat it in a few weeks again
<micahg> geser: already happened :)
<geser> Laney: I'm at work during the 12:00 UTC meeting time, so I'm for a change (if possible).  After 18:00 UTC works better for me
<Laney> geser: could you make /any/ UTC daytime slots?  We should think of applicants who can't make the evening too as well as ourselves
<geser> Laney: not really (but it's not a problem if I'm not available for each meeting if you have enough other DMB members for quorum)
<Laney> indeed
<geser> I can connect now and then to my IRC client but mostly won't have enough time to follow a whole meeting
<Laney> could you give your availability in stgraber's thread? 
<stgraber> geser: it was this weekend
<azeem> are there german translations somewhere for the firefox-net PPAs of firefox-4.0 for lucid? 
<ScottK> azeem: You probabl want #ubuntu-mozillateam. 
<ScottK>  ..y
<azeem> thx
<ari-tczew> useful could be a bot which gives an information about FFe if bug request (sync, merge, upgrade) includes new upstream release. 
<ari-tczew> not automatical bot, but bot which works on developer command
<ari-tczew> then bot gives a comment changing status and importance
<ari-tczew> unsubscribing sponsors and subscribing release team
<ari-tczew> wdyt? 
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-15
<jbicha> hi, I'd like to request a FFE for bug 735133 but am unsure about the process I need to follow
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 735133 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "FFE: Upgrade os-prober from 1.42 to 1.44 to properly support Haiku & Gentoo kernels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735133
<micahg> jbicha: subscribe ubuntu-release and give an FFe explanation in teh description
<jbicha> micahg: thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<LLStarks> deluge is still segfaulting on natty
<LLStarks> time to debug
<iulian> Morning dholbach! 
<dholbach> hi iulian
<Hans-Bit> Hi, hat Apache ne API ?  Also ich mÃ¶chte auf meine mercurial webseite meiendomain/hg ...  gerne anzeigen, mit was fÃ¼rn user man gerade eingeloggt ist... kann ich per apache irgendwie den Username auslesen und ausgeben? 
<Hans-Bit> (mein mercurial ist an apache gebunden....also die userverwaltung lÃ¤uft Ã¼ber apache)
<Hans-Bit> oh only english here?  :D
<dholbach> Hans-Bit, this is an english speaking channel and focused on package maintenance / ubuntu development
<dholbach> maybe the guys in #ubuntu-server (or #ubuntu) can help (also english) - or try #ubuntu-de
<Hans-Bit> I configure mercurial (with apache)... I want show the current (apache) logged user on my mercurial-website (../hg).. is it possible ? 
<dholbach> Hans-Bit, as I said above: this might not be the best channel to ask your question
<Hans-Bit> Hm ok
<Hans-Bit> thanks
<jbicha> hi, I was wanting to fix a small bug in banshee but whoever did the last upload did not use bzr, how can this be fixed? 
<Laney> jbicha: get the source from Debian's git please (or better, upstream) unless the fix cannot go there
<jbicha> Laney: I mean 1.9.5 is the current published Natty version but the bzr trunk is still back at 1.9.4
<Laney> don't know why that is, but I'm just advising you (as part of the maintenance team) that most fixes should be done upstream :-)
<jbicha> right, but I believe bug 735372 is Ubuntu specific
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 735372 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox not Banshee is set as default media player in Natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735372
<Laney> oh ok
<Laney> I don't know which package controls that setting, you could ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<jbicha> could someone take a look at bug 735372 for me? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 735372 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox not Banshee is set as default media player in Natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735372
<Laney> jbicha: the rb default is in /u/s/gconf/defaults/10_libgnome2-common
<jbicha> Laney: yes but my patch does basically the same thing ubuntu-artwork does
<Laney> I'm suggesting that libgnome2-common is the place to fix this
<Laney> laney@chicken> grep -r rhythmbox *                                                                                             ~/temp/libgnome-2.32.1/debian
<Laney> libgnome2-common.gconf-defaults:/desktop/gnome/applications/media/exec              rhythmbox
<jbicha> yes I looked at libgnome2 first but Ubuntu doesn't customize anything there but does customize in /usr/share/gconf/defaults
<jbicha> I tested my fix and it does override the lignome2 default
<jbicha> Laney: ok, I submitted the new merge proposal which was a lot easier to fix than the way I did it first
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> it's in main though so I can't sponsor it
<Laney> if you just subscribe the sponsors then it will be dealt with soon
<Laney> thanks for your contribution! 
<jbicha> done and thank you too
<artfwo> what is the rule for naming shared library packages like libfoo0c2 or zlib1g? 
<sladen> artfwo: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html#s-sharedlibs-runtime
<sladen> artfwo: it's to ensure ABI version differences
<artfwo> sladen, I've read it through (together with libpkg-guide).  but now I'm working on an orphaned debian package, which installs a shared library libadplug-2.2.1.so.0, yet the package is named libadplug0c2 - I cannot figure out the connection between library version and package name
<artfwo> unless I rename the package to "libadplug-2.2.1", I get a scary lintian warning package-name-doesnt-match-sonames
<sladen> artfwo: the 'c2' was to do with the GCC-4.0 C++ ABI change.   but I think that was being phased out after the change-over in 2006 (?) 
<micahg> artfwo: it's probably complaining since the library name is versioned (2.2.1)  and the package isn't
<sladen> cjwatson: ^^ do you remember anything about the C++ "c2" ABI change? 
<cjwatson> only distantly; it's not needed for new packages
<cjwatson> it should be preserved if it's already there
<Guest95966> sorry this may not be the proper channel for this but how can I switch b/w channels on irssi :( I am asking this because I dont know how to switch
<artfwo> sladen, right I've found a revelant changelog entry.  the c2a suffix was added to fix debian bug 339143.  but should I stick with the same package name when upgrading to a newer upstream version? ( no ABI breaks)
<ubottu> Debian bug 339143 in adplug "library package needs to be renamed (libstdc++ allocator change)" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/339143
<khrm> Guest95966 what client are you using to connect. 
<c2tarun> I created a natty chroot in kubuntu on different partition, can I use that chroot from ubuntu? 
<sladen> artfwo: sounds like it has been fixed?   What is it that you're working on that's that old? 
<Bachstelze> c2tarun: yes, packaging-wise there is absolutely no difference betweek ubuntu and kubuntu
<c2tarun> Bachstelze, I copied that chroot into my ubuntu partition with cp -rp command and I also copied schroot.conf and now when I am getting into it by schroot -c natty and executing rmadison kdepim command there I am getting this error curl: (6) Couldn't resolve host 'people.canonical.com'
<Bachstelze> c2tarun: you didn't need to copy it in the first place, but check your resolv.conf
<c2tarun> Bachstelze, if I put the location of that partition into schroot.conf will it work properly then? 
<Bachstelze> c2tarun: or maybe schroot needs something special, I don't use it so I don't know
<benste1> hi, wanted to report a packaging bug but "newsapp"="daily-journal" is not a genuie ubunut poackage
<benste1> could someone resolve the following error pls
<benste1> daily-journal: Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.1-0ubuntu5 is to be installed
<StevenK> benste1: You need to talk to the person that created the daily-journal package. 
<benste1>  Rick Spencer <rick.spencer@canonical.com>
<benste1> -- will send him a mail
<benste1> StevenK: thanks for the information
<StevenK> It likely just needs to be re-uploaded to his PPA. 
<Ampelbein> fwiw, it's in the extras.ubuntu.com repository, I don't know if there's a special contact address for them? 
<StevenK> Ah.  Personally, I am not sure myself. 
<LLStarks> hi, i'm trying to backtrace deluge, which is now crashing  upon launch in natty.  what should i feed to gdb? 
<RAOF> LLStarks: deluge is python, right? 
<LLStarks> yeah
<LLStarks> segfaulting hard
<RAOF> LLStarks: You'll want to run âgdb pythonâ and then ârun /path/to/delugeâ
<LLStarks> i'll need python-dbgsym/dbg or deluge symbols? 
<RAOF> Deluge won't have symbols, unless it's got a native component. 
<RAOF> I'd just run it and see where it dies; the backtrace will probably give you a good idea of what symbols you need :)
<kklimonda> how strict is FF for univers?  Is it "every new feature must go through the release team" or rather "use your head, stupid"? 
<kklimonda> actually, how strict is it for "main", and is there any difference? 
<kklimonda> also, probably s/universe/unseeded/ would make more sense
<micahg> kklimonda: every feature needs to go through the release team
<kklimonda> ok, thanks
<micahg> kklimonda: it's more likely to be granted for a universe leaf package vs something in main though
<ScottK> kklimonda: As micahg says. 
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-16
<kklimonda> is there a "oneliner" I could use to get a list of binary reverse dependencies of the given source package?  i.e. all binary packages that depend on binary packages built from the given source package. 
<micahg> kklimonda: there's a script that pitti gave me, but it requires a copy of the Packages and Sources indices from the archive
<kklimonda> micahg: I guess I can live with that, could you put it somewhere? 
<micahg> kklimonda: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/checkrdepends
<kklimonda> thanks
<micahg> kklimonda: you can create the needed part with scripts/packages-mirror in lp:ubuntu-cve-tracker
<kklimonda> micahg: btw, are there plans to move mozilla daily builds over to the new "recipe based" solution? 
<micahg> kklimonda: maybe if recipies start support import from hg
<micahg> er, lp supports import from hg
<kklimonda> ah, the amazing world of thousand and one version tracking systems..
<LLStarks> what's the difference between a dbg package and dbgsym package? 
<LLStarks> raof, 0x0169b6bd in __cxa_allocate_exception () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
<RAOF> LLStarks: Rejoice!   Update and mesa will stop killing deluge. 
<LLStarks> using edgers
<RAOF> Then stop doing that, and use Natty's (mostly) fixed mesa :)
<LLStarks> will do
<RAOF> LLStarks: The -dbgsym packages are automatically generated for all packages in the archive.  -dbg packages are manually sepecified by the maintainers, so could do anything. 
<StevenK> RAOF: So why does mesa kill deluge
<StevenK> ? 
<RAOF> (Although they generally contain exactly the same contents as the -dbgsym packages)
<RAOF> StevenK: Because it uses a broken TLS model, so if you dlopen libGL, or you dlopen something which depends on libGL, libstdc++ won't have it's TLS data initialised correctly and will explode when it hits a TLS path. 
<LLStarks> what other apps are affected? 
<StevenK> RAOF: Wait, because mesa does, or deluge does? 
<RAOF> Because mesa's TLS model is broken. 
<StevenK> (use a broken TLS model)
<StevenK> Ah!  It's a mesa bug, then? 
<RAOF> Yes. 
<RAOF> bug #219259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219259 in gnupg (Ubuntu) "gnupg needs to be updated to 1.4.9 (or bugfix backported to 1.4.6) to thwart vulnerability (dup-of: 214194)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214194 in gnupg (Gentoo Linux) "GnuPG allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214194
<RAOF> Whoops.   bug #259219
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259219 in software-center (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken TLS support in libGL.so AKA: software-center crashed with SIGSEGV in __cxa_allocate_exception()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259219
<StevenK> Haha
<LLStarks> nice.  no wonder you identified the bug so quickly. 
<RAOF> You are it a maze of twisty IA32 assembler, all alike. 
<LLStarks> heh.  no segfault with mesa 7.10.1
<dustin> could someone help me in regards to a question regarding installation of a patch for OA "open-arena" if so could you pm me please
<c2tarun> why I am getting this error curl: (6) Couldn't resolve host 'people.canonical.com'
<c2tarun>  on running rmadison kdeedu in natty chroot? 
<dustin> hmm nobody around me thinks :( id help ya but im a noob yet :)
<c2tarun> lets wait for some to reply :)
<dustin> god i hope so this damn game is driveing me nuts brb for a quick smoke aight bro
<Mase_wk> c2tarun: what does your resolv.conf point to in the chroot ? 
<Mase_wk> can you resolve it outside your chroot ? 
<c2tarun> Mase_wk, http://pastebin.com/HasS931x here is my resolv.conf
<c2tarun> Mase_wk, I think that ip is wrong
<Mase_wk> right well that is most likely your issue then :)
<c2tarun> Mase_wk, fixed :) thanks
<Mase_wk> np
<ScottK> c2tarun: If you ask the same question on multiple channels it wastes people's time giving multiple answers. 
<c2tarun> ScottK, sorry :( I thought there is no one on this channel, I'll keep in mind from next time. 
<micahg> ! patience > c2tarun
<ubottu> c2tarun, please see my private message
<ScottK> c2tarun: You waited two minutes.   Not nearly enough time particularly when it's night time in the time zone's most Ubuntu developers live in. 
<c2tarun> sorry
<dustin> tocos? 
<c2tarun> Is there any guide or manual available of how to split packages? 
<micahg> MTecknology: your title isn't the standard sync title, you should probably use requestsync from ubuntu-dev-tools next time (-e for exceptions)
<micahg> MTecknology: you can use requestsync to show you the title for the bug and change it to that and then CTRL+C before submitting
<MTecknology> micahg: oh..
<c2tarun> working on bug 683439 need help in splitting a package :( can anyone please help. 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683439 in kdeedu (Ubuntu) "split kalgebra mobile" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683439
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach. 
<dholbach> hey iulian
<kmdm> Hi all, hoping for some more advice... I've converted a python package to dh_python2, setup.py has py_modules=["NAME"], NAME is in the root dir of the package but it doesn't get copied into /usr/share/PKG-NAME... I've been following: http://wiki.debian.org/Python/Packaging#Example2.3APythonapplication
<kmdm> (I do get an egg info file though, but nothing else)
<kmdm> Do I need to explicity specify the python modules as files rather than the top level directory containing an __init__.py? 
<kmdm> aha, that was it... I needed packages= not py_modules= ... thanks for listening ;-)
 * Laney sighs and uploads ghc
<Laney> new mini-transition coming
<geser> does most haskell packages need a rebuild again to pick the new ABI? 
<Laney> only ones which transitively depend on unix
<Laney> I wonder why that one is particularly fragile
<Laney> also, my installability graph is broken currently withe gnomekeyring. IOError â any ideas on how to repair that appreciated
<Laney> argh
<Laney> how can it FTBFS?!?!?!?!?! 
<geser> Laney: does your script use the LP API? 
<Laney> yeah
<geser> which version of python-launchpadlib? 
<Laney>   Installed: 1.9.7-0ubuntu2
<geser> did you update your script for the auth changes in 1.9? 
<Laney> no not at all, I don't really follow it
<Laney> was there a NEWS file telling me I had to that I missed? 
<geser> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-users/msg06239.html
<Laney> bah
<Laney> there are packaging mechanisms to tell me about such things
<tumbleweed> Laney: it's in a NEWS entry for the most recent launchpadlib upload
<tumbleweed> (but that came via debian, long after broken launchpadlibs were in natty)
<Laney> better than nothing
<Laney> oh, no, I still don't see it
<Laney> hasn't been uploaded yet I guess
<tumbleweed> oh, whoops, I saw NEWS.txt on my natty box
<tumbleweed> ok, well you might have seen it in a u-d-t NEWS entry then :)
<ari-tczew> cyphermox: could you upgrade connman in Debian? 
<cyphermox> ari-tczew, yes.  that's my plan, just haven't gotten around to it yet
<ari-tczew> ok
<Q-FUNK> howdy!   I could use some help to debug a maintainer script that keeps on exiting with 1. 
<Q-FUNK> http://q-funk.iki.fi/debian/pool/c/cups-pdf/cups-pdf_2.5.1-2.dsc
<cyphermox> Q-FUNK, which one? 
<Q-FUNK> cyphermox: in the package above. 
<Q-FUNK> cyphermox: postrm
<Q-FUNK> cyphermox: th
<Q-FUNK> cyphermox: the purging loop causes it, but I'm not sure how. 
<cyphermox> lpstat -h localhost -v exits 1  "lpstat: No destinations added." 
<cyphermox> apparently the manpage lies
<Q-FUNK> how so? 
<cyphermox> Q-FUNK, for -v "if no printer is specified... all printers are shown", but here not specifying something after -v results in exit 1
<Q-FUNK> works here, but then i have some printers installed
<cyphermox> ah, I see, nevermind
<cyphermox> Q-FUNK, any cups-pdf printers in the list? 
<Q-FUNK> yes
<Q-FUNK> right.  seems that if there's no printer installed whatsoever, it returns what you saw
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I just installed the one here... shows how often I use it
<Q-FUNK> heh
<cyphermox> Q-FUNK, could it be failing because the printer is already removed?   also, here lpadmin doesn't agree with -r with no arguments
<Q-FUNK> wouldn't the loop exit if the lpstat line returns empty? 
<cyphermox> yeah
<Q-FUNK> hm
<Q-FUNK> why does it return 1 then? 
<cyphermox> Q-FUNK: I get errors when lpadmin is called too  -- lpadminÂ : classe attendue aprÃ¨s lâoption Â«Â -rÂ Â». 
<Q-FUNK> cyphermox: bizare. 
<cyphermox> Q-FUNK, http://paste.ubuntu.com/581169/
<plainas> hey all, if i define all the dependencies of my app on setup.py, will stdeb grab them? 
<blueyed> I am looking for the recipes documentation.  Where is it? 
<blueyed> I want to create a PPA with recent vim builds. 
<blueyed> Debian/Ubuntu has 7.3.035.. hello?! -  missing 100+ patches?! ( 7.3.138 is current)
<Laney> #launchpad for PPA questions
<Ampelbein> blueyed: were you looking for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes ? 
<blueyed> Ampelbein: that sounds about right.  Thanks! ( again :))
<Ampelbein> you are welcome ;-)
<blueyed> Ampelbein: but it's wrong.  there was something where you could provide a packaging branch and a upstream source for daily builds. 
<blueyed> this: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes
<Ampelbein> oh, yes, the daily builds
<Ampelbein> that should be on the wiki as /DailyBuilds though
<Ampelbein> which it is but with a longish redirect timer
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn-daemon
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-17
<porthose> a little OT but worth mentioning http://ourfriendsinjapan.com/index.php
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn-daemon
<ScottK> wejaeger: You know it's after feature freeze and we aren't, except with very limited exceptions accepting new packages right now? 
<wejaeger> ScottK: I did not know that, so I better try to get the package into the next ubuntu version ? 
<ScottK> wejaeger: Yes.   Even better to try and get it into Debian and it will automatically be in the next Ubuntu version. 
<ScottK> mentors.debian.net is much like REVU for Ubuntu. 
<micahg> ScottK, does phatch need a release ACK? 
<nivan> ! seen jelmer
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<directhex> who are you, mortal, who seeks the mighty jelmer? 
<nivan> hi directhex, I'm looking for some guidance on submitting a change to lp:gnome-session.  I understand it's just a mirror of the upstream git repository.  Where should I submit my changes? 
<directhex> nivan, gnome-session seems heavily ubuntu'd in ubuntu, so launchpad is probably the right place. 
<nivan> jelmer told me to send it to the 'packaging branch'.  I don't know what the packaging branch is. 
<tumbleweed> nivan: lp:ubuntu/gnome-session.  wiki.ubuntu.com/UDD
<directhex> lp:ubuntu/gnome-session
<nivan> thanks guys
<geser> nivan: ask the guys in #ubuntu-desktop how they prefer it as they also have their own branches
<geser> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-session/ubuntu
<geser> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr on how to use those branches
<nivan> geser: thanks, will give that a try
<matttbe> Hello,
<matttbe> I want to update Cairo-Dock version in Ubuntu Natty.  I've proposed a branch for merging and I've opened a new bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock/+bug/723994 before the FF but this version is still not available on Ubuntu Natty...
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 723994 in cairo-dock (Ubuntu) "FFe: Please update Cairo-Dock to 2.3.0~0rc1 version" [Wishlist,New]
<matttbe> What can I do? 
<matttbe> A member of Ubuntu-Sponsoring team said to me: Â "the merges proposed still have the issue of missing the pristine tarball, which you could get anyone in #ubuntu-motu to help you get fixed."  but I don't understand why there is an issue because when I launch "uscan --verbose" command, I see the new tarball! 
<matttbe> I've also tagged the upstream branch (lp:cairo-dock-core and lp:cairo-dock-plug-ins) and added two new series: Â lp:cairo-dock-core/2.3 and lp:cairo-dock-plug-ins/2.3Â 
<matttbe> I've tried this command: bzr merge-upstream --version 2.3.0~0rc1 lp:cairo-dock-core -r tag:2.3.0~0rc1 --distribution=natty
<matttbe> but it didn't work :-/
<tumbleweed> matttbe: you need to provide the tarball
<tumbleweed> uscan --download-current-version --rename --destdir .. <- that normally does the trick
<ScottK> micahg: It's just a bug fix, AFAIK. 
<matttbe> tumbleweed: thank you and sorry for the delay, I had an annoying paper jam with an old printer...
<matttbe> tumbleweed: when I launch this command, this is what I have: uscan warning: In debian/watch no matching hrefs for version 2.3.0~0rc1 in watch line
<matttbe> but this is what I have with uscan --verbose: -- Found the following matching hrefs:
<matttbe>      http://launchpad.net/cairo-dock-core/2.3/2.3.0-0rc1/+download/cairo-dock-2.3.0~0rc1.tar.gz
<matttbe> (...) Newest version on remote site is 2.3.0.~0rc1, local version is 2.3.0~0rc1
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: 2 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/2)
<matttbe> is it because there is a ~ in the versionning? 
<Rhonda> What's the watchfile? 
<matttbe> version=3
<matttbe> https://launchpad.net/cairo-dock-core/+download .*/cairo-dock-([\d\.\-]+)(~.*)?.tar.gz
<Rhonda> That's all, no opts with any mangle thing? 
<matttbe> no :-/
<Rhonda> So shall the ~0rc1 be part of the version, actually? 
<Rhonda> Try .*/cairo-dock-([\d\.\-]+(~.*)?).tar.gz instead
<Rhonda> i.e. taking the (~.*)?  into the other bracked instead of having it after it
<Rhonda> Potential that also should be a (?: ~.*)?  so that it isn't put into a variable. 
<matttbe> this is what I have with .*/cairo-dock-([\d\.\-]+(~.*)?).tar.gz: Newest version on remote site is 2.3.0~0rc1.~0rc1
<Rhonda> (?: ~.*)? 
<matttbe> Rhonda: should be better :) => Newest version on remote site is 2.3.0~0rc1, local version is 2.3.0~0rc1
<matttbe>  => Package is up to date
<matttbe> Rhonda: thank you :)
<fabrice_sp> slangasek, Hi.  After your update of the expat package, gnome-commander FTBFS (see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-commander/1.2.8.10-3build1/+buildjob/2327761/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.gnome-commander_1.2.8.10-3build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ).  It seems to be linked to the multiarch change you did.  What should I change to the gnome-commander package to make it buildable? 
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: hi, thanks for the ping - let me have a look at the log
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: some package that gnome-commander build-depends on which ships a .la file includes a wrong reference to libexpat.la; that package (which I'm looking up now) needs rebuilt, but it should also do something like the clean-la.mk target from gnome-pkg-tools
<fabrice_sp> slangasek, oh, I missed that
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: it appears to be /usr/lib/libexiv2.la that's to blame
<slangasek> so exiv2 needs at minimum a rebuild, and ideally a fix to clear out its dependency_libs field in that .la file
<fabrice_sp> slangasek, thanks for looking.  At it's in main, I'll open a bug report with that.  Thanks! 
<fabrice_sp> s/at/as
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: I'd be happy to review a patch that add support for the .la file cleanup, if you want to prepare one
<slangasek> otherwise I can trigger a no-change rebuild now-ish
<slangasek> (currently I have my hands full figuring out why gcj doesn't actually work now)
<fabrice_sp> slangasek, I'll have a look at the patch for .la cleanup (no hurry for the rebuild of exiv2, now that the origin of the FTBFS is clear)
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: I'm out of the woods now with gcj and ldconfig; I don't see a bug yet regarding exiv2, should I have a look at this? 
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-18
<plainas> I'm having troubles making a module available to python through a deb package
<plainas> wouldwhat would I put on my setup.py if i want to add a module to my system
<plainas> ? 
<psusi> g_signal_new() takes a class_offset argument that seems to be the offset to a function pointer within the class.   Is this function pointer the class internal handler for the signal that is invoked whether or not any other classes connect to the signal? 
<chrisccoulson> psusi, yes
<chrisccoulson> and that can be overridden by subclasses too
<psusi> chrisccoulson, so what if that pointer is never initialized?   shouldn't it at least be set to null in the class _init function? 
<arand> If I want to supply a .png file for a menu icon, should I also supply an .xpm version, and how do I specify things in the .desktop and .menu files then?  can I install both and
<arand> ... specify just the name in .desktop and specifically the .xpm file in .menu? 
<Pici> 2!fort
<Pici> oops
<fabrice_sp> slangasek, sorry for the delay: got distracted.  Working on it now.  By the way, I found that libwmf-dev has the same issue, so it needs a rebuild too (and a patch to empty dependency_libs line in .la)
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: ok, no worries :)
<fabrice_sp> slangasek, in case you're still free,  bug 737340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 737340 in exiv2 (Ubuntu) "Exiv2 has to be rebuilt after libexpat got 'multi-arched'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737340
<fabrice_sp> I've subscribed sponsors, so it can also follow the normal workflow :-)
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: LGTM; making one change to the changelog comment (it's not true that all reverse-deps need to be rebuilt for the multiarch change, only those that have bad .la files) and uploading
<slangasek> fabrice_sp: uploaded, and forwarded to Debian, thanks :)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach. 
<dholbach> hey iulian
<\sh> siretart:  bug #724452 just fix by colin 27 mins ago :) (thx cjwatson)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 724452 in live-boot (Ubuntu Natty) "live-initramfs is uninstallable in natty" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724452
<cjwatson> \sh,siretart: well, I think so.   it's not the sort of thing I can test easily, but switching that dependency around seemed like a no-brainer
<\sh> cjwatson: I'll take a look next week with an fai installation running on natty
<arand> I want to supply a .png for my menu icon in a package, and I currently only have a .desktop file used for the menu, but should a .menu item also be used for compatibility reasons, would I then use 2 icons? 
<Laney> tumbleweed, bdrung: Do you think it would be reasonable to get u-d-t to use the new credentials_file stuff? 
<mok0> arand: AFAIK you only need a desktop entry
<Laney> I'm importing lpapicache from a script which I've got running from a cronjob and would ideally like it to not randomly fail...
<mok0> Laney: indeed :-)
<bdrung> Laney: doesn't launchpadlib handle this stuff? 
<Laney> you need to pass credentials_file to login_with to bypass the gnome-keyring stuff
<bdrung> i like to use gnome-keyring
<Laney> it doesn't make sense for cronjobs
<bdrung> Laney: and there is no easy way to bypass gnome-keyring otherwise? 
<Laney> apparently you can uninstall python-gnomekeyring
<Laney> anyway I'd be happy with optional API support for this
<Laney> or an env var or something
<bdrung> env var sounds good.  that could be implemented directly in launchpadlib
<Laney> filing, will see what they say
<mok0> Hm, if I do ls -a |sort I get dot-files sorted after their second character.  How do I switch off that behaviour?? 
<siretart> \sh: cjwatson: thanks!  but this still won't unbreak it as it will AFAIUI still try to edit /etc/inittab, which doesn't exist anmore in ubuntu
<cjwatson> siretart: not as far as I can see.   it only appears to do that if sysvinit is installed. 
<cjwatson> the bit of code you're talking about is guarded by if [ !  -e /var/lib/dpkg/info/sysvinit.list ] ...; then return; fi
<cjwatson> not to mention testing for /var/lib/live/config/sysvinit which I assume is in live-config-sysvinit not live-config-upstart
<tumbleweed> Laney, bdrung: uninstalling python-gnomekeyring is very much a workaround.  The problem is that python-keyring needs to support this kind of thing better
<tumbleweed> it supports the use of an unencrypted(?)  keyring without gnome / kde keyyrings, but only just
<EvilPhoenix> is there still a possibility of submitting something for review for the natty repos, or did they freeze adding additional packages to the repos? 
<geser> EvilPhoenix: no new packages for natty as we are in FeatureFreeze
<EvilPhoenix> geser:  any possibility of submitting something for future inclusion? 
<EvilPhoenix> or maybe submitting something for the lucid or maverick repos? 
<ScottK> EvilPhoenix: If it's a package you're really interested in, you might try to get it into Debian and then it will automatically be in the next Ubuntu release. 
<EvilPhoenix> ScottK:  yeah, Debian's packaging thing is evil, because everything's packaged for Ubuntu (from what I hear, Ubuntu packages aren't backwards-compatible with Debian's packages)
<EvilPhoenix> ScottK:  also, where would I start if i wanted to get it into debian? 
<ScottK> EvilPhoenix: We're a derivative of Debian, so this is what you'd expect. 
<EvilPhoenix> indeed
<ScottK> EvilPhoenix: Start at mentors.debian.net. 
<geser> btw is the ApplicationReviewBoard running?  didn't follow it
<ScottK> It is.   I believe they actually accepted one package. 
<Laney> check extras.ubuntu.com
<acarpine> Hi omniscient people!  I'm fixing several .desktop files of several packages
<acarpine> I believe I should submit my changes to the upstream projects, but what's the right process to do it? 
<acarpine> 1) File a new bug in Ubuntu 2) Send a patch there 3) Forward the patch to debian
<acarpine> or 1) File a new bug in Debian 2) Send a patch there
<acarpine> and the wait the automatic sync to have the bug fixed in Ubuntu...
<ScottK> It depends on the severity of the issue.   If it's minor, I'd do the latter.   Filing bugs upstream is good too. 
<acarpine> It's abs a minor bug
<acarpine> ScottK: so i will use the second path
<ScottK> OK.  Good luck. 
<acarpine> ScottK: tks ScottK!  just another question...please
<ScottK> ! ask | acarpine
<ubottu> acarpine: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily).  If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) 
<acarpine> changing the changelog file for a patch that I will send to Debian
<acarpine> I should use the unstable version in the first line
<ScottK> I wouldn't provide a changelog, just the .desktop patch and an explanation why it's needed. 
<ScottK> If you do provide one, yes. 
<ScottK> Also revision should be -Y, not Xubuntu1. 
<acarpine> so debdiff is sufficient? 
<ScottK> Debdiff has the changelog in it, so make it an appropriate one, but yes. 
<acarpine> ok ScottK really tks for your help! :) 
<ScottK> You're welcome. 
<hakermania> micahg: Hello :) How is it going with Wallch after all :) ? 
<micahg> hakermania: sorry, will try to look this weekend
<fta> micahg, i see you touched bugzilla.  we have 3.6.3.0-2 in natty, but two months ago, upstream released 3.6.4 as a serious security upgrade
<ScottK> fta: Is it just the security fix? 
<fta> ScottK, http://www.bugzilla.org/releases/3.6.4/release-notes.html
<ScottK> fta: Do we have a new enough Perl CDI module? 
<ScottK> CDI/CGI
<fta> it needs 3.51
<fta> ! info libcgi-pm-perl
<ubottu> libcgi-pm-perl (source: libcgi-pm-perl): module for Common Gateway Interface applications.  In component universe, is optional.  Version 3.49-1 (maverick), package size 220 kB, installed size 616 kB
<fta> ! info libcgi-pm-perl natty
<ubottu> libcgi-pm-perl (source: libcgi-pm-perl): module for Common Gateway Interface applications.  In component universe, is optional.  Version 3.51-1 (natty), package size 202 kB, installed size 600 kB
<fta> seems ok
<fta> but bad for maverick
<micahg> fta: well, I don't think I can get to it this weekend, but will try to keep on my radar, hopefully someone else can take care of it though
<fta> micahg, initially, i wanted bugzilla 4 but it doesn't seem to be packaged yet
<micahg> fta: 3.6.4 isn't either ;)
<hakermania> micahg: Not a personal problem, but it should have been looked 3 weeks now, and we are anxious to see the result :D
<kim0> Hi folks, I'm trying to package a new package (my first time) and facing some (I'd guess easy) problems .. Would someone have time to take a look
<mok0> kim0: go
<kim0> mok0: thanks :)
<kim0> The pkg I'm trying is http://ms-sys.sourceforge.net/
<kim0> it's trivially small
<kim0> let me paste my rules file
<kim0> http://paste.ubuntu.com/582237/
<kim0> For some reason .. it tries to install to /usr/local and gets a permission denied â install: cannot create regular file `/usr/local/bin/ms-sys': Permission denied
<kim0> inside the chroot .. PREFIX=/usr make install  .. works
<mok0> kim0: your should set prefix=/usr
<kim0> where should that go
<mok0> kim0: in the install section, try just "make --prefix=/usr
<mok0> kim0: and instead of PREFIX=/usr, use DESTDIR=$CURDIR/debian/tmp
<kim0> I want a diff :)
<mok0> kim0: but in fact I think "make install" is enough
<kim0> well but it's not right
<mok0> kim0: also, get rid of dh_clean
<mok0> kim0: are you teaching me, or am I teaching you? 
<kim0> no you are
<mok0> kim0: you can get rid of dh_installdirs unless you have a debian/dirs file
<mok0> kim0: still talking about the install: target
<kim0> ok deleting those 2 lines
<kim0> and PREFIX="/usr" $(MAKE) prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr
<kim0> should be
<mok0> make install
<kim0> just make install ? 
<mok0> yes
<kim0> what was prefix=$CURDIR... trying to do
<mok0> kim0:  that application is built in the build: target
<mok0> kim0: but you deleted everything again by using dh_clean
<kim0> oh wth
<kim0> that template was generated for me by some tool .. so wouldn't think it'd be that broken
<kim0> ok now retrying
<kim0> guess google buzz would be good for this kind of thing .. having tracked history
<mok0> kim0: you template assumes that the makefile is generated by GNU autotools, but it's not
<kim0> I see
<kim0> I edited the rules file and re-ran pbuilder
<kim0> is that not enough for the changes to take effect
<mok0> kim0: if you look in the apps makefile, you will se that it hardwires /usr/local
<kim0> if its not defined yes
<mok0> kim0: right
<kim0> mok0: do I have to re-run debuild after editing rules ? 
<mok0> kim0: no
<kim0> hmm .. I thought it was still running the old rules
<mok0> mok0: just run fakeroot debian/rules clean
<mok0> kim0: I mean :-)
<kim0> I reran debuild .. this time the new rules are applied .. but still has errors
<kim0> want the output log ? 
<mok0> kim0: wait up
<mok0> kim0: in the install: target, use:
<kim0> Well here it is anyway :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/582242/
<mok0> PREFIX=$CURDIR/debian/tmp/usr make install
<kim0> ok
<mok0> kim0: DESTDIR instead of PREFIX; sorry
<kim0> np
<kim0> mok0: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582244/
<mok0> kim0: handcrafted makefiles are always a problem
<mok0> kim0: sometimes you need to rewrite them to get them to do things right
<kim0> yeah I understand
<mok0> kim0: yeah, try that
<kim0> pbuilder crunching
<mok0> kim0: it's gonna put manpages the wrong place if it works
<kim0> it broke bec NEWS didn't exist
<kim0> I deleted its name from rules
<kim0> about to retry
<mok0> kim0: ok
<kim0> gah changelog is camelcase
<kim0> correcting .. retrying
<kim0> mok0: is the correct one, camelcase, or lowercase
<kim0> for changelog
<mok0> kim0: debian/changelog, lower case
<kim0> ok
<mok0> upstreams changelog, you never know
<kim0> crunching
<kim0> do I have to tear down pbuilder setup everytime :)
<kim0> it's kinda slow
<kim0> oh .. think it worked
<mok0> kim0: yay
<kim0> warning: Depends field of package ms-sys: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends}
<mok0> kim0: probably there are no shared libs in the package
<kim0> where is the resulting package
<mok0> kim0: in pbuilders build area, probably in /var/cahce
<mok0> cacje
<mok0> chache
<mok0> cache
<mok0> damn
<mok0> sdfa
<kim0> :D
<kim0> hehe
<kim0> found it
<kim0> lovely
<mok0> kim0: run lintian on the .deb
<kim0> mok0: a few questions please .. what's make target binary-arch
<Rhonda> kim0: For building arch-dependent parts of the package
<kim0> thnx
<Rhonda> Erm, not building but creating the actual .deb packages
<kim0> and what's the level of intelligence in dh_installdocs -a
<kim0> how does it know what's "docs" ? 
<mok0> kim0: it has some standard things it looks for
<mok0> kim0: man dh_installdocs
<kim0> so upstream has files like FAQ and CONTRIBUTORS
<kim0> have those been picked up
<Rhonda> you put it into debian/docs (or debian/$packagename.docs)
<mok0> kim0: you can use less to look at the content of a .deb file
<mok0> kim0: if you have  LESSOPEN=| /usr/bin/lesspipe %s
<kim0> mok0: why would I want that
<mok0> kim0: to see what files it contains
<kim0> mok0: lintian says .. long description is too long
<kim0> is it 80 chars
<mok0> kim0: hm, something is wrong
<kim0> ? 
<kim0> W: ms-sys: extended-description-line-too-long
<kim0> mok0: that's normal right
<mok0> kim0: the Description line should be less than 80
<kim0> ok
<mok0> kim0: lintian -i will give you more info
<kim0> mok0: copyright file has    Source: <url://example.com>
<kim0> should that be upstream url ? 
<mok0> kim0: yes
<mok0> kim0:  see http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/
<kim0> mok0: should I worry about new-package-should-close-itp-bug
<mok0> kim, not right now
<kim0> cool
<kim0> rebuilding to make lintian happy
<kim0> mok0: lol .. the deb only contains /usr/share/doc
<mok0> heh
<mok0> kim0: lets rewind a bit
 * kim0 nods
<mok0> kim0: you can build the package in place, i.e. without pbuilder
<mok0> fakeroot debian/rules build
<mok0> fakeroot debian/rules install
<kim0> hmm the commands I used were
<kim0> debuild -S -kxxxx
<kim0> sudo pbuilder build ../ms-sys*.dsc
<kim0> is that completely different
<mok0> kim0: yes, because we want to see what goes on during the build
<kim0> ok the build is done
<kim0> mok0: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582259/
<mok0> kim0: look in debian/tmp, the tree should be there
<mok0> kim0: ah
<mok0> kim0: lots of probems
<kim0> :)
<mok0> problems
<kim0> expected
<mok0> for example mkdir -p /tmp/ms-sys-2.2.1/debian/tmp/usr/usr/local/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES
<mok0> ".../usr/usr/local/..." ?? 
<mok0> :-)
<kim0> yeah
<mok0> kim0: somethings wrong with the env variables passed to the makefile
<mok0> kim0: it should be: ..../debian/tmp/usr/....
<kim0> not sure where the double usr comes from
<kim0> I'll delete one usr
<kim0> :)
<kim0> mok0: it still installs to /usr/local right
<kim0> install -D -m 644 mo/sv.mo /tmp/ms-sys-2.2.1/debian/tmp//usr/local/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/ms-sys.mo
<mok0> kim0: yeah that's wrong
<mok0> kim0: you have PREFIX=/usr ?? 
<kim0> wasnt in the fakeroot .. added it .. seems to work
<kim0> I mean it's in the file .. but wasn't on the command line
<mok0> kim0: you might need it on the make install line too
<kim0> DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/ $(MAKE) install
<mok0> PREFIX=/usr DESTDIR=... make install
<kim0> that's what it currently is
<kim0> yeah
<kim0> another thing .. the resulting deb doesn't have the binary still
<mok0> kim0: let's deal with that when the build is correct
<kim0> ok
<mok0> kim0: the easiest at this stage is to build using fakeroot debian/rules install
<mok0> and then check to see what's in debian/tmp
<mok0> kim0: all files should be in their right places in that tree
<mok0> kim0: then you use <packagename>.install to stuff them into the package
<kim0> well the binary is there
<kim0> under debian/tmp/
<mok0> kim0: debian/tmp/usr/bin/ ? 
<kim0> debian/tmp/usr/bin/ms-sys
<mok0> kim0: then you need a line in <pkgname>.install
<kim0> is that normal or workaround
<mok0> debian/tmp/usr/bin
<mok0> kim0: normal
<mok0> kim0: you need a line "dh_install" in the binary-arch target
<kim0> echo 'debian/tmp/usr/bin' > debian/ms-sys.install
<kim0> correct ? 
<mok0> yes
<mok0> kim0: use dh_installman to install man page
<kim0> the man page is installed
<kim0> without needing that
<mok0> kim0: ok, good
<kim0> I guess it looks good
<kim0> mok0: I've setup a ppa .. is it easy to push that there
<mok0> mok0: yes, use dput
<mok0> kim0: on the changes file
<mok0> kim0: but first make sure it builds again with your pbuilder
<kim0> I need dh_installman :)
<kim0> putting and retrying
<mok0> kim0: there are a bunch of dh_install* helpers for installing various things
<kim0> why didn't the tool enable those
<mok0> kim0: and they generally use <packagename>.*  files
<mok0> kim0: don't know, what tool? 
<kim0> well can't remember .. that was a week ago :)
<kim0> any way
<kim0> ms-sys: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/ms-sys
<kim0> it's not picking up the man page
<kim0> so I need a pkgname.*  file
<mok0> kim0: probably because it's in the wrong place
<mok0> kim0: it should go in /usr/share/man/man1
<kim0> install -D -m 644 man/ms-sys.1 /tmp/ms-sys-2.2.1/debian/tmp/usr/man/man1/ms-sys.1
<mok0> yup that's wrong
<mok0> kim0: it comes from upstreams makefile
<kim0> yeah
<mok0> I think MAN=share/man will do it
<mok0> kim0: before make
<mok0> kim0: like PREFIX et al
<mok0> errr no it wont
<kim0> MANDIR = $(PREFIX)/man
<kim0> this is where we patch it ? :) 
<mok0> kim0: I think you need to edit the makefile to achieve it
<kim0> can I do that
<mok0> kim0: or, shove files around in rues
<mok0> rules
<kim0> mv ? 
<kim0> that sounds better
<mok0> kim0: yes mv it from the wrong place to the right place
<mok0> kim0: you might be able to do that in the ms-sys.manpages file
<kim0> hmm
<kim0> how do I know more
<kim0> man the dh
<mok0> put debian/tmp/usr/man/man1/... in there
<mok0> <packagename>.manpages just needs to locate the man pages.  The script dh_installman determines from the file names where they need to go
 * kim0 nods
<kim0> so fakeroot .. builds whatever crap upstream wants .. then pkgname.*  shuffles them around the way ubuntu wants them
<mok0> kim0: you need to go through all parts of the debian/tmp tree to make sure everything you need comes into the pacakge
<kim0> lovely .. built and lintian is happy
<mok0> kim0: yes
<mok0> kim0: pbuilder also uses fakeroot
<mok0> kim0: only in a mystery build directory somewhere
<kim0> hehe
<kim0> mo file not picked up
<kim0> debian/tmp/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/ms-sys.mo
<mok0> kim0: ugh
<kim0> correct location ? 
<mok0> kim0: yes, you can use *.install
<mok0> kim0: same one you used to install the binary
<kim0> so mo files don't have a special file ?\ 
<kim0> why is that
<mok0> kim0: programmer lazyness I guess :-)
<mok0> kim0: Most likely it doesn't need special treatment
<kim0> I guess a better question
<kim0> yeah .. why did manpages require a special file
<mok0> kim0: because that script implements all the debian rules for manpages
<kim0> mok0: mo was picked up
<kim0> lovely
<kim0> I feel in control :D
<mok0> kim0: you're the man! 
<kim0> mok0: YOU are :)
<kim0> I really really wanna put it in a ppa :)
<mok0> kim0: high 5
<kim0> 5
<kim0> dput *.changes ? 
<kim0> just that
<mok0> kim0: no, you need your ppa adress
<mok0> kim0: can't remember the syntax
<mok0> kim0: its documented on LP
<kim0> dput ppa:kim0/ppa <source.changes>
<kim0> yeah it is
<kim0> trying
<kim0> woot!  it actually worked first time :)
<mok0> \o/
<kim0> woohoo
<kim0> mok0: Thanks a zillion
<mok0> kim0: np
<mok0> kim0: enjoy your package
<kim0> does it take time to reflect on web UI https://launchpad.net/~kim0/+archive/ppa
<mok0> kim0: yeah
<mok0> kim0: 10 mins or so
<kim0> the decent thing to do later, is trying to get it into universe right
<mok0> kim0: you can try...
<kim0> yeah
<mok0> kim0: we have a system called REVU for that
<mok0> kim0: but it requires you come here and pester people for reviews
<kim0> hehe
<mok0> kim0: there's a long queue of packages there
<kim0> mok0: shouldn't those reviews be part of patch pilot
<kim0> or is that a different story
<mok0> kim0: I don't thing we're there yet for new packages
<mok0> and REVU is actually a pretty good tool
<mok0> well gotta go
<mok0> See you
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-19
<arand> If there is a copyright notice in a header file (e.g. zlib.h), does this also need listing in the debian/copyright file? 
<ScottK> arand: Yes. 
<carstenh> hi, could someone please merge deborphan 1.7.28.4 from debian sid?  it fixes a serious bug (although ubuntu might not be affected) and does not wrongly display libreoffice as possible orphan if --guess-section is used.  it has been accepted in sid two hous ago. 
<carstenh> s/merge/sync/
<iulian> Can someone please do me a favour and build zim 0.50-1 from Sid in an up-to-date natty builder? 
<iulian> I think my pbuilder is acting strange today and can't figure out the reason. 
<iulian> Nevermind. 
<ari-tczew> hyperair: ping
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: around? 
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: have you got installed natty? 
<ari-tczew> and do you use geany? 
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: yes and yes
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: does it work? 
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: yes. 
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein:
<ari-tczew> $ geany
<ari-tczew> Naruszenie ochrony pamiÄci (core dumped)
<ari-tczew> segfault on start :/
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: do you have apport activated? 
<ari-tczew> apachelogger: I guess so, lookin' on icon in tray
<ari-tczew> apachelogger: sorry, should be Ampelbein ^^
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: apport will report the crash to launchpad and will retrace it. 
<Ampelbein> at least it should. 
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: ok got it. 
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: I did system update today, but still didn't restart natty.  should do I restart natty and try geany again? 
<Ampelbein> ari-tczew: I don't know?  Maybe it helps.  Maybe not.  Only thing I know is that geany worked for me the whole time. 
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: ok I'll reboot. 
<apachelogger> ari-tczew: it is very cruel to get my hopes up that maybe I was important enough that someone would want to talk to me
<ari-tczew> apachelogger: do you feel so bad? 
#ubuntu-motu 2011-03-20
<apachelogger> ari-tczew: yeah, though I am going on vacation soon
<ari-tczew> apachelogger: enjoy :)
<hyperair> ari-tczew: pong
<hyperair> hmm segfault on start eh. 
<hyperair> that sounds bad. 
 * hyperair schroot's to natty to test
<hyperair> hmm it works here
<hyperair> maybe it's a plugin.  let's try installing all of them
<hyperair> nope, it starts up fine too
<ari-tczew> hyperair: I have to reboot natty, maybe after updates regression appeared. 
<hyperair> yeah perhaps
<hyperair> ari-tczew: so anyway, didy ou manage to trigger apport? 
<ari-tczew> hyperair: there was apport notification, but I rejected it.  I'll retry it if segfault still is crashing after reboot. 
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> i think the .crash file should still be around
<hyperair> so if you run apport-collect on it, it should work
<ari-tczew> hyperair: I won't do reboot right now, no point.  I'll run my PC when I'll wake up. 
<hyperair> alright. 
<rr0hit> A typo in a patch for istanbul has created a bug in natty.  How do i go about settling it? 
<rr0hit> PS: i dint write the patch
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: file a bug against this package
<rr0hit> I have, bug 738673
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 738673 in istanbul (Ubuntu) "Save Dialogue does not open in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738673
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: can I submit a patch?  The typo is absent in source package, but is present in a patch.  In that case how should I submit the patch? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes, of course!  patches always are welcome :)
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: can i first apply existing patches, then create a patch to correct the mistake? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: is this the right way to patch a patch ? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: no, just fix patch where is typo.  then create a debdiff
<yofel> ari-tczew: it's one of the quilt patches of the package that adds the broken line, how should one fix that? 
<yofel> ah, just edit it? 
<ari-tczew> yes
<yofel> k
<ari-tczew> yofel: do you working on rr0hit's case? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> okok
<ari-tczew> good luck then
<yofel> we were debugging this in -bugs, and I wasn't sure how to do this so I advised him to ask here
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: how do i edit the patch ?  i'm noob here
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: grab the source by command 'apt-get source PACKAGENAME' then edit in your favourite text editor :)
<ari-tczew> */debian/patches/ this is a path where are patches
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: I'll edit just the patch that creates the problem? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: after that? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: create a new debian/ubuntu revision in d/changelog by command 'dch -i' and build the source
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: how do i get it pushed? 
<ari-tczew> useful wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<ari-tczew> ! debdiff | rr0hit
<ubottu> rr0hit: A simple way to patch Debian/Ubuntu packages is to attach a debdiff to a bug report, or send it to the team which handles the package.  Learn more about it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Debdiff
<rr0hit> ari-tczew, yofel , I have attached a patch to bug 738673.  could you just go through it.  Does it look allright?  First patch !! 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 738673 in istanbul (Ubuntu) "Save Dialogue does not open in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738673
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: as it's first time, looks good.  however, please add (LP: #738673) at the end of sentence in d/changelog. 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: also, could you use your real full name and real e-mail? 
<ari-tczew> on Launchpad you don't need (but it;s preffered) however, in debdiffs we use real stuff
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: in the changelog?  or do i have to set it somewhere
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: use command 'dch -e' and edit
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: in future, you can set DEBFULLNAME, let me find something in internet
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: is there a way to delete the submitted patch? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes, on launchpad in bug
<ari-tczew> on the right side below Subscribers field is Patches field
<ari-tczew> click on (edit) next to attached file
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: would you like to get to know using Bazaar for patches? 
<rr0hit> i am behind a proxy and was not able to use bzr
<ari-tczew> aha ok
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: uploaded the new patch
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: now i have to find "sponsors" ? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes, you should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to bug
<ari-tczew> however, I'm one of sponsors :)
<ari-tczew> sponsors are developers with upload access
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: so u can do it for me? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: thanks :)
<ari-tczew> just let me finish one thing
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: i am out to grab something to eat.  will be back in 5 - 10 minutes.  My first sponsor :)
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: enjoy your meal
<ari-tczew> I;ve got a ftbfs: /usr/include/bits/stdio2.h:96:1: note: expected 'const char * __restrict__' but argument is of type 'struct _IO_FILE *'
<ari-tczew> this line looks that: fprintf (FILE *__restrict __stream, __const char *__restrict __fmt, ...)
<ari-tczew> anybody knows how to fix it? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: could you check whether is the same bug reported already in Debian?  if no, could you forward your change to Debian? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: alright
<geser> ari-tczew: can you pastebin the source code causing this message? 
<ari-tczew> geser: sure, http://paste.ubuntu.com/582944/
<xteejx> Hi all, I know feature freeze is in effect, but would it be possible to get Fold-it into multiverse repo?  How is it done? 
<xteejx> ref: bug 375530
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375530 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] foldit game to Ubuntu repository" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375530
<ari-tczew> ! FFe | xteejx
<ubottu> xteejx: Feature Freeze Exception.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process. 
<xteejx> I thought FF was just bug fixes? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: if you would like to get fixed your full name and e-mail, please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<xteejx> I'm not worried if it's not until 11.10
<ari-tczew> xteejx: bug fixes go without FFe.  New upstream releases and new packages need FFe,
<xteejx> Ok
<ari-tczew> xteejx: if you don't want to spend time on making FFe, you can get in in natty+1. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: thanks..will keep in mind :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: preffered way is get it to Debian first and sync to Ubuntu. 
<xteejx> Hmm, the problem with fold-it and Debian might be the licensing (there is none AFAIK)
<geser> ari-tczew: sorry, no idea
<ari-tczew> xteejx: did you try to get it in Debian? 
<xteejx> ari-tczew: Haven't tried
<ari-tczew> xteejx: could you try? :) 
<xteejx> I'll keep that as a good option I think ;)
<xteejx> My packaging skill sare limited so I will do it when I have time :)
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: the bug is not reported in debian. 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: could you report it and attach your patch? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: k
<ari-tczew> thanks! 
<ari-tczew> geser: but problem is in libc6-dev (binary of eglibc source), not in package which I'm trying to build, right? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: should i submit by mail?  i dont see another option
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: we have a script 'submittodebian' but I prefer to use just mail. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: i can attach the patch to the mail? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582950/ please use Subject field as bug title
<geser> ari-tczew: not sure, from your pastebin it looks like the arguments got interchanged, but the source code looks ok
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: thanks :)
<ari-tczew> geser: a piece of source code where it's failling: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582952/
<ari-tczew> I'm fixing FTBFS in package gridengine, loads and loads gcc errors
<geser> ari-tczew: then I looked at the wrong piece, and this explains the error you get
<ari-tczew> geser: yes?  do you know resolve it? 
<ari-tczew> know how to *
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: do i need to give a bug description or just refer to the LP bug
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yea, just use the same infromation about typo which causes crash
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: and in the template, you provided what is the line that starts with *
<geser> ari-tczew: does that file get patched?  because when I look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/gridengine/natty/view/head:/source/libs/cull/cull_multitype.c#L105 it looks different (or it this the wrong file to look at?) 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: * debian/ ?  this is a place where you should copy and paste your entry from d/changelog. 
<ari-tczew> geser: yes as I said, I'm fixing loads of gcc errors, this is my patch for file cull_multitype.c: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582955/
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582956/ looks ok? 
<geser> ari-tczew: ah, your patch is wrong: I assume you want to fix the warning about the missing format string, right? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: not at all: Version: 0.2.2-8
<geser> the it should be "fprintf(stderr, "%s", buf)" (the argument order is: where, format, variable)
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: oops
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: anything else? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: paste a link to bug on launchpad
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: right
<geser> I guess the same for CRITICAL but check to what it expends first
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: attach your patch
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: k
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: and please about fill Subject field as bug title
<ari-tczew> otherwise, looks fine
<ari-tczew> geser: I found in google this blog: http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/2009/07/format-not-string-literal-and-no-format.html
<geser> ari-tczew: in that case it's correct, as g_error() doesn't expect a file object as first argument but a format string and then it's variables
<ari-tczew> geser: I just used this blog as useful handbook
<ari-tczew> and I fixed a lot of warnings, I'll show you patch when it's done. 
<ari-tczew> geser: current package has got a delta which is workaround for errors, it should be fixed instead making it quiet
<ari-tczew> geser: yeah, fixed, thanks!!! 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: done.  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=619028
<ubottu> Debian bug 619028 in istanbul "Istanbul save dialogue does not open" [Normal,Open]
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: could you open a task for Debian and link this bug ^^ to launchpad? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: how do i do that
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: "also affects ?" 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: also affects distribution
<rr0hit> alright
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: done
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: ok thanks.  I'll test your patch. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: :)
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: you should choice project Debian, not istanbul upstream
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: how do i change
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: there is a button to edit project name, but I guess it won't work
<ari-tczew> I'll fix it. 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: I did Invalid status for upstream istanbul and noticed you opened task on Debian now correctly. 
<ari-tczew> now I'm going to play with your debdiff. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: yes..
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: ah, you forgot to use update-maintainer :)
<ari-tczew> and I forgot to point out you for it. 
 * ari-tczew lunch, afk. 
<rr0hit> ah..so i ve to correct it in 2 places
<rr0hit> :(
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: I'll fix it. 
<ari-tczew> it's 5 sec work. 
<ari-tczew> but in future remember about it :)
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: what about the debian bug
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: I'll add Closes: #XXXXX to d/changelog entry. 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: in future please attach patch with only needed thing, so entry of d/changelog should not be included since it's wrong for Debian and you included information from d/changelog in e-mail. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: ahh
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: so you are correcting my mistakes right? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes, but I can't fix attached file on BTS. :) 
<rr0hit> you can add  a separate reply, right? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: yes, but there is no need to additional commenting on debian bug.  they know how to cut necessary changes from your debdiff. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: ofcourse they do :)
<ari-tczew> geser: how to resolve this line?     chown(fname, myuid, mygid, "%s");
<ari-tczew> the same error as previous
<ari-tczew> I moved %s everywhere in ( ) but no good result :/
<qnix> hi
<qnix> How can I get the ImplicitPointerConversions when building in my pbuilder env? 
<qnix> That way, I could fix them before uploading to launchpad
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: are you there? 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: i was just checking out istanbul on my debian squeeze installation, (same version 2.2-8), the bug is absent in that package
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: isnt that strange? 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: well, let's wait for comments on Debian bug. 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: thanks for ur help.  feels good.  fix released. :) 
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: thank you for patch! 
<rr0hit> ari-tczew: :)
<rr0hit> monday morning physics class now
<rr0hit> ahh
<ari-tczew> rr0hit: you have uploaded your first package in Ubuntu! 
<c_korn> does someone know how I can set all packages in a repository to priority standard using reprepro ? 
<cody-somerville> c_korn, You'll have to use an override file. 
<cody-somerville> c_korn, You could write a hook to do it whenever a package is added (see man page).  Then you could run rerunnotifiers
<c_korn> cody-somerville: ok, will give it a try thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-12
 * micahg figures there haven't been enough chromium uploads this week and goes for one more :)
<jalcine> :D
<vibhav> Can I bring unity fixes to precise? 
<vibhav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/934061
<dholbach> good morning
<vibhav> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hi vibhav
<vibhav> dholbach: Did you recieve my email? 
<dholbach> yes I did
<dholbach> but I received a lot of emails this weekend, so it'll take a while until I get to yours
<vibhav> dholbach: Could you write the testamonial until Wednesday? 
<dholbach> I'll do my best
<vibhav> Thanks dholbach
<vibhav> Whenever  I aaply a patch, the .diff becomes empty and there is no patch applied , anybody experiencing this problem? 
<ajmitch> how are you applying the patch? 
<vibhav> patch < p.diff
<vibhav> the file is empty
<vibhav> Never mind though I have applied the patch manualy
<ajmitch> if it's empty it's not going to do anything, I'd suspect you accidentally did > p.diff instead
<vibhav> right
<vibhav> I did that
<vibhav> thanks ajmitch
<danboid> Is aptitude broke in oneiric? 
<danboid> I've been using a combo of aptitude and apt-get under 11.10 and I've got a number of packages I can't install as its saying it can't install them due to the deps being a bit new that whats supposedly required it seems
<danboid> a bit newer, sorry
<tumbleweed> yes, if you have multiarch (amd64 will have i386 added as a foreign arch)
<danboid> tumbleweed, What if I'm not even running x86 and haven't knowingly installed anything from another arch?  I'm running the omap4 (armel) build
<danboid> I won't have installed anything from another arch unless someone has mistaken packaged somnething that way in the 11.10 armel repos
<tumbleweed> then aptitude should probably work
<danboid> A number of packages are broken like libqt4-dev for example - it won't install as it says its deps are a bit too new basically :/
<tumbleweed> danboid: can you pastebin the exact error? 
<danboid> That happens with apt-get and aptitude - apt-get -f install has been no help but yes will pastebin the error
 * Laney cuddles pexpect
<Laney> automating haskell syncs since 2012
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/159427/ uh oh
<Laney> In [10]: c[0].comment_date
<Laney> Out[10]: u'2011-12-12T13:49:17.718509+00:00'
<tumbleweed> Laney: sounds like we should get around to writing that syncpackage module...
<Laney> Oakland 2012 :-)
<tumbleweed> heh
<yann__> Dear MOTUs, please look at this FFe : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/806291/comments/30  .  Need ack of a 2nd MOTU , and/or upload to Debian then sync. 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806291 in Ubuntu "[FFe][needs-packaging] Boot-Repair" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<tumbleweed> yann__: ScottK and I both commented on that as release team members
<tumbleweed> ScottK offered you archive-admin review, if it was a sync from debian, and I offered you an FFe if it was a sync.  So what's blocking uploading it to Debian? 
<Guest52270> Here's an example of the sort of errors I get trying to install certain (mainly -dev it seems) packages under 11.10 armel:
<Guest52270> http://pastebin.com/sLKQ8jBZ
<Guest52270> I can still install some packages
<Guest52270> apt isn't totally fubar - yet - I think! :) 
<Guest52270> Hopefully I won't have to re-install! 
<geser> did you disable the updates repository by chance? 
<Guest52270> geser, Don't think so but let me check..
<Guest52270> geser, Ah!  Seems I only had 'Important security updates' selected but not the other three so lets see..
<geser> 4:4.7.4-0ubuntu8 is in oneiric while 4:4.7.4-0ubuntu8.1 is in oneiric-updates
<Guest52270> geser, Dunno how it got unchecked
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Lack of sponsoring. 
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah, and a package like that probably deserves some fairly thorough review (I wouldn't jump and sponsor it)
 * ScottK neither. 
<jalcine> Is it possible to get the source qt-gstreamer backported to Maverick? 
<jalcine> Or has there been no interest in doing so? ( I'm willing). 
<ScottK> jalcine: You know Maverick goes out of support in a month, right? 
<jalcine> eh, I know people who use Gutsy still.  :p
<ScottK> ! backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also ! packaging
<ScottK> jalcine: ^^^
<jalcine> Thank you *clicks*
<genupulas> some one plz http://pastebin.com/Qd2pzRXW
<tumbleweed> genupulas: nothing to worry about there, you just didn't have a gpg key for the e-mail address you are using
<genupulas> but i have uploaded an GPG key in my LP with that email
<tumbleweed> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=raja.genupula%40yahoo.com&op=vindex looks like there are *lots* of keys with that ID
<tumbleweed> so it didn't know which one to use
<genupulas> https://launchpad.net/~genupulas
<tumbleweed> export the ID in DEBSIGN_KEYID
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  like this export DEBSIGN_KEYID=92661626
<genupulas>  ? 
<tumbleweed> export DEBSIGN_KEYID=0x92661626
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  i did as you said , am i have to do total process again ? 
<tumbleweed> no
<tumbleweed> are you wanting to upload it to a PPA?  or just build a deb locally? 
<genupulas> debuild  -S
<tumbleweed> yes
<genupulas> i did but same error
<tumbleweed> gpg --list-secret-keys 0x92661626 outputs anything? 
<genupulas> http://pastebin.com/rvRjH8kR
<tumbleweed> genupulas: the error seemed reasonably clear: no secret key available
<genupulas> yes gpg --list-secret-keys 0x92661626 gave me output
<genupulas> it have sec,uid,ssb
<yann__> Coming back to Boot-Repair's upload to Debian: thanks Tumbleweed and SkottK for your answers (i was disconnected so i may have missed someone-else answer).  As SkottK said, it is now lacking sponsor for upload into Debian. 
<tumbleweed> genupulas: throw in a -k0x92661626 ? ( to debuild)
<tumbleweed> yann__: right.  But we can't grant you an FFe in Ubuntu unless you can get an archive-admin who volunteers to review it
<genupulas> didnt get you , sorry
<tumbleweed> and that's far more likely if it comes from debian
<tumbleweed> genupulas: debuild -S -k0x92661626
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  thats awesome , thanks man
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  thank you very much
<tumbleweed> genupulas: I don't know why it wasn't finding your key.  Maybe someone else has an idea? 
<genupulas> tumbleweed:  am i able to upload this in my Lp just for trail
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> to a PPA
<genupulas> yes
<geser> tumbleweed, genupulas: my guess is that the key uid (including any comments) as used in the changelog entry doesn't match a uid on that key
<geser> but as I can't find a keyserver which can lookup that key (timeouts), I can't check it
<genupulas> export GPGKEY=k0x92661626 duane told me to do that in .bashrc , i did that and i am trying again
<genupulas> i will let you know if i got any
<genupulas> thank you tumbleweed geser
<yann__> (sorry i have connectivity issues)
<yann__> here is why i think it would be a good thing to put Boot-Repair in Ubuntu ISO : Boot-Repair is used by ~500 Ubunteros/day, and most of them currently have to download another ISO (Boot-Repair-Disk, or Ubuntu-Secured-Remix) to repair their boot/GRUB. 
<yann__> it's ok to wait for a mentor to upload in Debian, but this would probably mean no inclusion in Precise ISO.  If by chance a MOTU was interested to review it now, i can take time to answer any question. 
<ScottK> yann__: It's very, very unlikely it would be added to the ISO now as we're well past feature freeze. 
<yann__> ok, no problem, then.  I'll wait for Alessio to finish his exams ;)
<tumbleweed> getting onto ISOs is hard, there's a big fight for space
<dupondje> dh_installinit -a --no-start --name=cryptdisks-udev --upstart-only -> this installs the script for ALL run levels? 
<plustwo> if i uploaded a package to my ppa:lpusername and i cannot it is not there, where else could it have been uploaded? 
<plustwo> or how can i find it? 
<tumbleweed> if it was accepted, you'd have got an e-mail (within 5 mins or so)
<tumbleweed> you sure the gpg key you signed it with was linked to your lp account? 
<plustwo> i think so, cause it said "Succesfully signed dsc and changes files"
<tumbleweed> plustwo: that's unrelated
<plustwo> tumbleweed: i'll need to recheck then
<tumbleweed> by unrelated, I mean, that means you signed it, not that LP knew who signed it
<dupondje> what signal can be used in upstart to start a task after umount ? 
<plustwo> ok
<plustwo> tumbleweed: so i'll need to upload my key to LP? 
<tumbleweed> plustwo: yes
<plustwo> ok, i'll recheck how to do that on the packaging-guide then.  tnx
<plustwo> tumbleweed: just thinking, will that mean i lost the ppackage? 
<tumbleweed> yes
<plustwo> *ppackage/package
<plustwo> ok.  will try again then, tnx again
<dupondje> any idea's ? :) 
<thibaud-ecarot> hi all
<vibhav> dholbach: Could I PM you? 
<dholbach> vibhav, sure, if it's quick - I need to rush out in a bit :)
<vibhav> thanks
<dupondje> No upstart freaks around no ? ;) 
<plustwo> tumbleweed: the key is in LP, i just uloaded my first package to my ppa as well. 
<plustwo> it was successful. 
<tumbleweed> good
<plustwo> now how do i ask for somebody to check if there's any mistakes to be relooked? 
<c_korn> hello, how can I put a directory with spaces in the install file? 
<jtaylor> you can't
<c_korn> :/
<jtaylor> if its required you ahve to install it in rules
<jtaylor> (or with an executable install file, not recommended)
<tumbleweed> or use wildcards
<c_korn> wildcards? 
<c_korn> like ? 
<jtaylor> file*
<jtaylor> standard shell globbing
<tumbleweed> this*contains*spaces :)
<jtaylor> this?space should work too? 
<tumbleweed> presumably
<c_korn> ok, thank you, jtaylor and tumbleweed
<c_korn> does this also work in links files? 
<jtaylor> no
<c_korn> :/
<jtaylor> there is dh_linktree in precise for mass linking
<chilicuil> hi there, I'm trying to test if an app is completly translated, I do have a chroot environment (pbuilder) with the latest ubuntu version, know how can I installed the 'pt' version for example? 
<chilicuil> I know that the klavaro package is not complety translated, since I've it in ubuntu oneiric, I'd like to translate what's left
<pabelanger> Question about the ubuntu sponsorship process for MOTU, it says to ask for some 'recommendations' to be added to your wiki page.   Should I actively be asking people to add them or do I just sit back and wait? 
<tumbleweed> when you apply for upload rights, it's usually a good idea to reach out to people who've sponsored several things for you in the past
 * pabelanger nods
<pabelanger> I feel kind cheesy asking for them, but I guess I have to start
<broder> i don't think it's cheesy, especially since it's just part of the process
<pabelanger> broder: I feel cheesy, not the process. 
<pabelanger> Never was one to get signature for a year book :)
<tumbleweed> people are supposed to watch devel-permissions, and endorse/comment on applications that they see coming past
<broder> tumbleweed: err, wat? 
<broder> news to me
<tumbleweed> but that doesn't happen so much(as far as I know) most endorsements are solicited
<tumbleweed> broder: I thought that was the purpose of devel-permissions? 
<broder> is it?  i don't ever remember hearing that i was supposed to be watching it
<tumbleweed> "supposed" is a strong word :)
<Laney> i don't think so.  it's just a public record of applications, but you can use it like that if you want
<Laney> i expect people don't announce there until after they've secured some endorsements though
<broder> pabelanger: you might find http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi helpful
<pabelanger> broder: ack'd
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-13
<ESphynx> hey guys :)
<ESphynx> at some point I'd like to rant about the horrible experience I had installing Oneiric on my computer :|
<ESphynx> it just went from bad to worst...
<Corey> I've got a git repository that I'd like to turn into a debian package.   The way it's situated right now is that the entire repo more or less contains a bunch of php files.   I want to drop these into place-- I don't need any configure or make steps for these.   What's the sanest way to structure the .install file? 
<StevenK> Use debian/dirs to create the directory structure you want, and then debian/install that has 'source <path to dest>'
<Corey> StevenK: If everything is going to live in /var/somedirectory, do I need every subdirectory as well? 
<StevenK> Corey: debian/dirs should just be var/somedir then
<Corey> That's simple.  Thanks! 
<Corey> StevenK: Ah, so the install would be 'source /var/somedirectory/' or are my slashes off? 
<StevenK> No first slash
<StevenK> <source file> var/somedir
<Corey> Hmm.   When you say source file, how do you encompass "everything in the tarball less the debian directory?" 
<StevenK> *.php ? :-) 
<Corey> That's just it.   There are subdirectories to consider as well. 
<Corey> I more or less want the package to take the orig.tar.gz and unzip it into /var/somedirectory, full stop, the end. :-) 
<StevenK> Well, it's already unpacked when you build
<Corey> Right.   The "build" is that untar process-- no makefile. 
<Corey> Essentially what I'm trying to do is have a repeatable process that uses the apt system. 
<StevenK> You can do mkdir ; cp -a --exclude debian  in your rules file if you wish
<StevenK> debian/dirs and debian/install are good since they're *simple*, but you need to tell it exactly what you want. 
<Corey> StevenK: that'd be what, dh_make or dh_install? 
<StevenK> dh_make is not debhelper.  It's dh_install. 
<vibhav> submittodebian doesn't work for me :(
<dholbach> good morning
<vibhav> submittodebian doesn't work for me :(
<vibhav> dholbach: You told me to submit the patch to debian but It does not report
<dholbach> I'm not sure how to debug this - maybe somebody else can help ^? 
<vibhav> Is there any other way to submit patches to debian? 
<dholbach> by mail
<dholbach> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs should help
<dholbach> brb
<vibhav> I sent debian the Launchpad Bug tracker address which had the patch
<arand> vibhav: Just add the patch as an email attachment when sending it to the bug report. 
<vibhav> ok
<arand> And if you have confirmed that it works *on Debian* add a patch tag by sending "tags bug# + patch \n thanks."  to the control server
<arand> In what way does submittodebian not work? 
<vibhav> arand: It just says that the bug has been reported, But I get no email
<arand> vibhav: Ah, you haven't set up  sendmail, I presume? 
<vibhav> arand: must be
<vibhav> How do i set it up? 
<arand> Hmm, from what I remember with exim4, it's rather hassly, it might be easier if you manage to get reportbug to use your current MUA (evolution?  thunderbird?)  to send things instead of sendmail...
<arand> $HOME/.reportrc   add "mua thunderbird -someoptions" I*m guessing based on the manual pages
<Laney> it knows how to speak smtp itself
<Laney> just put "smtphost reportbug.debian.org" in ~/.reportbugrc
<Laney> providing your ISP doesn't block such things
<arand> Ah, that's much simpler! 
<vibhav> thanks Laney
<tumbleweed> it should set itself up, these days
<Laney> .there is a wizard on first run, yeah. 
<brainstorm> hello !  I'm trying to package a java-based software suite and upload it to launchpad
<brainstorm> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/96625288/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.snpeff_2.0.5d-1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<brainstorm> unfortunately it fails on the install itsef, which is pretty simple: /usr/bin/sudo mkdir -p /usr/local/java/snpeff
<brainstorm> make[1]: /usr/bin/sudo: Command not found
<Zhenech> why should it install in usr/local? 
<jalcine_> Morning all
<brainstorm> oops, sorry, that should have been /usr/share/java :-S
<Zhenech> you usually install into $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp and copy it to the .deb afterwards
<tumbleweed> firstly, it shouldn't be using sudo
<Zhenech> yeah, that too
<tumbleweed> second, it should respect CURDIR
<tumbleweed> and yes, it should also respect PREFIX, which should avoid the /usr/local bit
<brainstorm> I wrote an artificial Makefile (the original package did not have it) such as this: install:
<brainstorm>         mkdir -p /usr/share/java/snpeff
<brainstorm>         cp -a snpEff.*  scripts galaxy /usr/share/java/snpeff
<brainstorm> would that work ?  do I need to tweak anything else ? 
<tumbleweed> brainstorm: what did it have?  ant? 
<brainstorm> nope, nothing at all, it was just a .zip file: http://snpeff.sourceforge.net/
<tumbleweed> ah, so it's binary, not source? 
<brainstorm> yes
<tumbleweed> I'd not bother with the Makefil, and just use dh_install
<brainstorm> tumbleweed: great, how should I proceed/read about ? :) 
<tumbleweed> but this could also be a reasonable learning opportunity on how the makefiel should behave, if you want :P
<brainstorm> tweak debian/rules maybe ? 
<tumbleweed> dh_install has a manpage
<tumbleweed> you should just be able to say "snpEff.*  /usr/share/java/snpeff" in debian/install
<brainstorm> tumbleweed: awesome !  thanks for that :)
<geser> do PPAs allow it to just ship the .jar file and not the real source in the source package? 
<debfx> sure, as long as it's redistributable
<brainstorm> oh, btw, dunno where to report this exactly, but there's a step on the packaging guide (http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html), that does not survive reality: $ pbuilder-dist oneiric build kqrcode_0.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
<tumbleweed> brainstorm: what's wrong with it? 
<brainstorm> tumbleweed: $ pbuilder-dist oneiric build snpeff_2.0.5d-1ubuntu1.dsc
<brainstorm> E: File /home/vagrant/pbuilder/oneiric-base.tgz does not exist
<tumbleweed> brainstorm: that's covered in http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html
 * tumbleweed adds a link
<brainstorm> aha, ok, thanks for the pointer :)
<brainstorm> I've been thinking on how packaging would benefit from a ton of automation (instead of so much documentation).  In that sense I've been looking at FPM: http://www.semicomplete.com/blog/tags/deb and filed an issue on GitHub: https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm/issues/170 â¦ what do you think about that ? 
<arand> brainstorm: http://xkcd.com/927/ comes to mind, also, I wonder if it is really beneificial if people whi are unfamiliar with packaging can easily dump stuff in a PPA...
<arand> *who
<brainstorm> does dh_install (debian/install) create directories automatically (mkdir -p) if they don't exist ?  i.e: /usr/share/java/snpeff ? 
<arand> brainstorm: Yes, afaik, you could treat it as "install -D" pretty much. 
<shadeslayer> hrw: when you're free, would it be possible for you to help me setup a arhf qemu builder? 
<shadeslayer> *armhf
<tumbleweed> armhf works in qemu these days? 
<shadeslayer> dunno, armel/armhf whatever works, I have little knowledge of the field
<tumbleweed> I thought one still needed native packages for a bunch of syscalls that aren't supported yet
<tumbleweed> armel should "just work"
<shadeslayer> is there a way I can get it to work with pbuilder? 
<tumbleweed> yeah, use qemu-debootstrap
<tumbleweed> pbuilder-dist should know how to do it
<shadeslayer> I think I've tried qemu-debootstrap
<shadeslayer> I'll try pbuilder-dist
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuDevelopment/Ports < I tried that earlier ( Specifically "pbuilder and QEMU syscall emulation" )
<shadeslayer> heh : Warning: Unknown distribution "armel".  Do you want to continue [y|N]? 
<tumbleweed> yup, that's pretty much what pbuilder-dist will do
<tumbleweed> worked fine for me in the past
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: http://paste.kde.org/439076/
<shadeslayer> line 7 and 8
<Zhenech> armel is not a dist, but an arch
<shadeslayer> Zhenech: uh, yea, I used --architechture armel
<shadeslayer> another option was multiarch, but that's broken
<shadeslayer> multistrap
<shadeslayer> I'll try mk-sbuild --arch=
<shadeslayer> *mk-sbuild --arch=armel precise
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: pbuilder-dist is doing http://paste.debian.net/159565/ for me
<tumbleweed> yes, mk-sbuild should also work
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: pastebin your pbuilderrc? :) 
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: empty
<tumbleweed> (well, actually not, but for pbuilder-dist, an empty one should work)
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> lets see
<shadeslayer> heh, Zhenech was right, I incorrectly supplied the args
<Zhenech> \o/
<shadeslayer> I should really stop multitasking, I'm no good at it :P
<hrw> shadeslayer: never created qemu builders.  I have real arm hardware
<shadeslayer> :D
<shadeslayer> I'll get a raspberry pi soon, won't be able to run Ubuntu on it tho
<dupondje> you'll get a raspberry pi soon
<dupondje> right :)
<dupondje> still haven't received an order mail :(
<Zhenech> I'll get mine this millenium *hope*
<shadeslayer> dupondje: yes, I'll get it in like a month or so
<shadeslayer> they reserved 400 boards for developers, I've been allocated one from the initial batch of 10000
<shadeslayer> hrw: tumbleweed muwhahah, I made pbuilder-satisfydepends segfault
<shadeslayer> /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends: line 60: 26036 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) $CHROOTEXEC aptitude -y --without-recommends -o APT::Install-Recommends=false "${PBUILDER_APTITUDE_CHECK_OPTS[@]}" -o Aptitude::ProblemResolver::StepScore=100 -o "Aptitude::ProblemResolver::Hints::KeepDummy=reject pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy :UNINST" -o Aptitude::ProblemResolver::Keep-All-Level=55000 -o Aptitude::ProblemResolver::Remove-
<shadeslayer> Essential-Level=maximum install pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<dupondje> lucky ! :) 
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: :)
<shadeslayer> dupondje: yeah :P , thanks to Nokia! 
<tumbleweed> are you using the latest qemu-user-static? 
<shadeslayer> nope
<tumbleweed> that's usually a good idea
<shadeslayer> ok
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: http://paste.kde.org/439160
<brainstorm> tumbleweed: thanks guys !  it's up there ;) https://launchpad.net/~brainstorm/+archive/galaxy/+packages
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: no luck on upgrading qemu-user-static
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: nafc, worked for me (on sid)
<shadeslayer> well
<shadeslayer> It might be because of -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2
<shadeslayer> I'll try it on sid
<tumbleweed> I know I've used qemu-arm-static from Ubuntu dev releases before (on Debian) because I wanted newer qemus
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: you make qemu sound like a tasty fruit
<tumbleweed> :P>
<shadeslayer> \o/
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: thanks man
<tumbleweed> np
<tumbleweed> I assume that everything that works on Debian works on Ubuntu, not always true :)
<Laney> iulian: did you see the removals that went by on d-haskell recently? 
<Laney> want to file them? :-) :-) 
 * Laney does some more test builds - soon will be able to unhold ghc again
 * micahg wonders if cody-somerville is planning on ever updating catfish in Debian
<cody-somerville> micahg, The last time I checked the upstream author had stopped developing it. 
<micahg> cody-somerville: I gave you a patch for dh_python2 conversion :)
<cody-somerville> micahg, really.  when? 
<micahg> months ago? 
<micahg> debian 641577
<ubottu> Debian bug 641577 in catfish "catfish: Convert to dh_python2" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/641577
<cody-somerville> ah.  fancy that. 
<micahg> I needed to get python-support off the Xubuntu images for oneiric
<cody-somerville> micahg, I assume you've already made the change in Ubuntu and that you're just looking to be able to drop the delta? 
<micahg> cody-somerville: yeah
<cody-somerville> micahg, cool.  I'll take care of that then.  thanks for the ping. 
<micahg> cody-somerville: no rush on it, but there are several other open bugs as well
<micahg> laney: how does one tell if a new version of a haskell package has features or not
<Laney> the same way as for any other library
<Laney> if you are concerned about my current syncs then don't be because there is an FFe
<tumbleweed> the FFe being "sort the haskell stack out" :)
<Laney> there were API changes in ghc's base libraries so some code changes are inevitable
<micahg> laney: with most libraries, there's a changelog either upstream or in the package and I could find neither
<Laney> a sad deficiency in the haskell ecosystem indeed
<Laney> for a normal haskell freeze exception i would consider the fact that every new upstream is an abi break (so check how many rdepends) and would diff the two packages to see what the API changes are like
<ScottK> So an upstream for Haskell always has 'features' since it needs a transition. 
<ajmitch> sounds like a dream to maintain
<ScottK> Happiness is never needs to be confused about if you have to do a transition. 
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-14
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<geser> Hi ajmitch and dholbach
<ajmitch> hi geser
<dholbach> hey geser
<nava> Hi dholbach,what do you think about this idea ?  http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29302/
<dholbach> nava, I'm not sure - you could try to bring it up in #ubuntu-design though
<nava> dholbach thanks but nobody answer in that channel
<dholbach> most of them might be asleep in there or joining later
<nava> I tried many times in past
<bobbo> anyone able to advise on whether Bug #954648 would require an FFe? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 954648 in kmymoney (Ubuntu) "Kmymoney 4.6.2 is available!" [ Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954648
<tumbleweed> bobbo: I don't think so
<bobbo> that was my first thought as it's pretty much only bugfixes
<tumbleweed> looks like it
<micahg> bdrung: are you taking care of getting npapi-vlc into precise, there were some questions about it in #ubuntu+1
<jokerdino> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/883612/ weird stuff
<micahg> jokerdino: why is that weird?   one's requesting the source and one's requesting the source of the binary
<jokerdino> so both the packages actually exist in the repo? 
<micahg> jokerdino: one's the source package name, one is one of the binary package names, rmadison -uqa npapi-vlc mozilla-plugin-vlc
<micahg> or rmadison -uqa -S npapi-vlc
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all
<jokerdino> woo, cool commands
<micahg> bdrung: nevermind, I see it in NEW now, thanks :)
<jokerdino> i am going to see if it builds here :)
<jokerdino> i can't build because i cant download some of the packages. 
<jokerdino> 404 error on them :(
<pawan> hi
<bdrung> micahg: i am fast ;)
<pawan> I'm experiencing mouse problems after the recent upates
<pawan> I've been using 12.04 and updating regularly.  After installing updates today, my screen suddenly started freezing when I right clicked on a folder/file or on a link inside the browser
 * micahg hugs bregma for upstreaming the utouch stack
<bregma> micahg, it's only for experimental until the right version of X.org gets into testing... and we don't know when that will be
<micahg> bregma: we can sync from experimental and it's a step in the right direction :)
<Laney> nxvl: around?  I just got pinged by a DD about augeas @ Debian. 
<nxvl> Laney: yeah, it needs some love
<Laney> I'm going to CC you into my reply, OK?  Then you can update on your plans. 
<nxvl> sounds great
<Laney> there we go
<ajmitch> Laney: how goes haskell? :) 
<Laney> going
<Laney> please do some syncs! 
<ajmitch> ok, though I won't get to it until tonight if I'm lucky
<ajmitch> since I sort of need to test build them or I get micahg talking to me :)
<highvoltage> https://plus.google.com/107342445128902420647/posts/TW75LNDbkSK
<Laney> heh
<Laney> silly 'mericans
<ajmitch> don't they know it's 15/3 already? 
<micahg> ajmitch: it's only 3 here :P
<ajmitch> micahg: hm? :) 
<Laney> everyone knows that july 22nd is the real pi day
<micahg> ajmitch: 3PM :)
<ajmitch> definitely
<ajmitch> micahg: oh do you chase people up after work hours? :) 
<highvoltage> Laney: no that's just "approximation of PI day"! 
<nxvl> Laney: answered
<micahg> ajmitch: what does after work hours mean? 
<ajmitch> micahg: true, you don't actually sleep do you? 
 * micahg remembers there was a bug for that
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-15
<nigelb> ajmitch: heh, the world is tiny.  I didn't know you lived in Dunedin :)
<lifeless> nigelb: you don't live in Dunedin do you? 
<nigelb> lifeless: No, but someone I'm good friends with does! 
<lifeless> ah :)
<lifeless> thumper does too
<lifeless> I used to
<nigelb> Yeah, that was the other small world dunedin story. 
<ajmitch> nigelb: yeah :)
<vibhav> good morning
<ESphynx> vibhav how are you :)
<vibhav> ESphynx: i HAVE STARTED WORKING
<ESphynx> you have? :)  congratulations hehe
<ESphynx> You finished your exams yet? 
<vibhav> yes
<ESphynx> ah nice :)
<ESphynx> Will you still have some time to get Ecere into Debian with your new job?  :P
<vibhav> ESphynx: By work, I meant the work to bring ecere into debian
<ESphynx> Oh!  you did :) hehe
<ESphynx> I thought you were saying you started a job or something :P
<vibhav> no
<ESphynx> how's that going?  What did you have to do? :) 
<vibhav> currently I am downloading the source
<ESphynx> Did you see the debian folders we have on the Github branches? 
<vibhav> You have debian folders? 
<ESphynx> yes the debian/
<ESphynx> https://github.com/ecere/sdk/tree/debian
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> 'morning dholbach :)
<vibhav> hi dholbach
<ESphynx> vibhav: I think it all already works... it's just a matter of testing it and then adding it to sid :)
<dholbach> hi ESphynx, vibhav
<vibhav> ESphynx: I will still check it for any mistakes
<ESphynx> vibhav ok :) thanks
<ESphynx> well good night guys :)
<vibhav> ESphynx: Have you filed any ITP or RFP bug for ecere? 
<erbo> I'm trying to package a daemon that comes with a manpage.  The manpage gets (well, should get) installed as /usr/share/man/man1/daemon-name.1.gz but when I install the .deb it doesn't get installed.. If I do dpkg --contents pkg.deb it's listed as part of the package
<erbo> what am I missing :)
<vibhav> the debian/install file might not be listing the manpage
<vibhav> You can move the page to the debian directry
<Zhenech> erbo, could you paste dpkg --contents blah.deb and dpkg -L blah? 
<tumbleweed> vibhav: one generally installs manpages with dh_installman not dh_install
<vibhav> ok
<tumbleweed> it's easier :)
<erbo> Zhenech: http://pastebin.com/d3Rx51d7 (dpkg --contents)
<tumbleweed> erbo: the manpages are there.  What's the problem? 
<erbo> tumbleweed: that ls /usr/share/man/man1/ shows nothing right after installing the deb
<erbo> Zhenech: http://pastebin.com/qPGJvgTF (that's from dpkg -L)
<Zhenech> well, dpkg thinks it did everything right
<tumbleweed> you sure you haven't disabled the manpage installation? 
<tumbleweed> dpkg coa be told to skip directories
<tumbleweed> can
<Zhenech> is your fs not loving you today?  or do you have something like "localepurge" installs
<erbo> tumbleweed: that might be it, where's is that controlled? 
<tumbleweed> erbo: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/11/15/save-disk-space-by-excluding-useless-files-with-dpkg/
<erbo> Ah, that's it
<erbo> thanks a bunch, I thought I was going crazy
<vibhav> I have fixed around 68 typos in a program, how do I submit these to Ubuntu\Debian? 
<sagaci> what program is it
<vibhav> adunn.app
<vibhav> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/tags/spelling-error-in-binary.html
<tumbleweed> vibhav: send them upstream, not to Ubuntu/Debian
<tumbleweed> typos in documentation are worth fixing in Debian/Ubuntu, sometimes.  But typos in code are not really
<vibhav> thanks tumbleweed
<vibhav> I cannot see any thingy for contribution
<vibhav> It just has a link to join the developer mailing list
<tumbleweed> if they don't have a bugtracker, mail th emaintainer
<vibhav> What if I dont get a reply? 
<tumbleweed> unfortunately, you've then probably wasted your time
<tumbleweed> we do have things in the archives that have dead upstreams
<vibhav> Then can I submit them to Debian or upstream?? 
<tumbleweed> then we should consider whether the package should be in Debian
<shadeslayer> question, if I have a arch all package that fails to build on armel because some of the icons were not built, will it fail to buildd's as well? (  The arch all package will only be built on x86 right? ) 
<shadeslayer> The arch all package builds fine on x86
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: correct re arch-all on i386
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: okay, then for some reason kipi-plugins-common fails to build on my armel pbuilder
<shadeslayer> I've worked around it for the moment by making the package arch any and having .install.armel
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: err I meant it'll only build the arch-all packages on i386
<tumbleweed> so that shouldn't result in a failure
<shadeslayer> exactly, I have no idea why debhelper is trying to build a arch all package in a armel pbuilder
<tumbleweed> because pbuilder builds arch-all packages unless you tell it not to
<shadeslayer> so how do I tell it not to build arch all packages? 
<tumbleweed> --binary-arch
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: do I have to pass that when creating the tarball or when calling pbuilder-dist build ? 
<geser> shadeslayer, tumbleweed: pbuilder behaves by default like a i386 buildd (not caring on which arch it is run)
<geser> shadeslayer: you pass it when test-building
<shadeslayer> hmm
<geser> pbuilder-dist precise build --binary-arch ... (or something like that, don't remember the exact pbuilder-dist syntax)
<geser> the buildd will only build the arch:all package on i386 but you should be able to build them on armel too
<tumbleweed> that's not critical, though
<geser> no, but it would be nice to fix it anyways as it probable shows a bug somewhere
<tumbleweed> there are arch-all packages in the archive which only build on certain archs.  Some of those only build on non-x86, unfortunatly for us (although, that could be worked around with multiarch, these days)
<tumbleweed> when debian eventually gets around to implementing building arch-all packages on the buildds, debian will probably implement a way to say which arch the arch-all package should build on
<ogra_> it will definitely break if someone tries to rebvuild the package locally on an arm machine
<geser> but those are very special
 * ogra_ agrees with geser 
<ogra_> (that it should be fixed)
<tumbleweed> fair enough, but there are more important FTBFSs to deal with
<geser> I doubt shadeslayer is working on such a package
 * shadeslayer reads backlog
 * tumbleweed doubts so too
<shadeslayer> my main gripe is that pbuilder is not smart enough
<shadeslayer> building on armel takes time
<shadeslayer> and when you get FTBFS's .... more time is lost
<shadeslayer> so by default, pbuilder should not build arch all pacakges unless the pbuilder is a i386 pbuilder
<shadeslayer> \end gripe
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: you can achive that with 3 lines of pbuilderrc
<geser> not in general, as it is useful to check if the arch:all package builds too before uploading even if test building on amd64
<tumbleweed> geser: totally agreed
<shadeslayer> ok, if the pbuilder is amd64 or i386, build arch all
<shadeslayer> else don't build arch all
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: I'm talking about defaults here :)
<shadeslayer> it just doesn't make sense to me personally
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: I think it's fairly sensible for pbuilder to build arch-all packages by default
<tumbleweed> I don't see why one wouldn't want to do that
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: because it takes time to build pacakges on arm? 
<tumbleweed> sbuild doesn't build them by default, but that's because it aims to be like a buildd
<geser> shadeslayer: and then you test-build a package you want to try which has an strict version check on e.g. -common which is arch:all and you can't install it without --force-deps
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: right, but then you've got less confidence that your package still builds
<shadeslayer> also, this brings in a interesting question, kipi-plugins-common ftbfs on armel because of missing files, should it be made arch any? 
<geser> no
<tumbleweed> I see absolutely no reason to do anything like that
<geser> why are those files missing when build on armel but there if build on i386? 
<tumbleweed> all vs any is strictly about the arch-independant nature of the package content
<shadeslayer> because I've disabled libqt4-opengl-dev on armel
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: what if the content is not built on armel ( as proven by my current build )
<tumbleweed> which is a fairly intrusive change, affecting a lot of armel/armhf.  But clearly worth the pain
<geser> in this case build your package with --binary-arch
<geser> *test-build
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: as long as the arch-all package you are generating on x86 works on armel, I think we are fine here. 
<shadeslayer> ok
<tumbleweed> the difference in content isn't because of a bug, just different environment
<shadeslayer> yep
<tumbleweed> if it concerns you, make the build abort on arm :)
<shadeslayer> well, I'm trying to fix that, so that's not a viable solution :P
<tumbleweed> but it sounsd like any builds on arm of this package wouldn't behave correctly on other archs? 
<geser> tumbleweed: wouldn't that be a problem only for Debian? 
<tumbleweed> geser: what? 
<geser> that the arch:all package build on arm would cause problems for other archs? 
<geser> as for Debian the arch:all package would be part of the upload while in Ubuntu it gets build by the i386 buildd
<tumbleweed> practically, yes
<tumbleweed> but generally speaking, if we know that a deb we've built is bad, we should do something to taint it
<Corey> Not entirely sure why this is failing: + git-dch --verbose --auto --debian-branch=master --snapshot --id-length=8 --snapshot-number=53
<Corey> You are not on branch 'master' but on '(no branch)'
<Corey> Then it urges me to: Use --debian-branch to set the branch to pick changes from
<Corey> (This is being done within Jenkins)
<pabelanger> Afternoon, I'm looking for help with a FeatureFreezeException for a SyncRequest for rebuildd (bug 956188).   Included in the output from syncrequest plus the build.log from pbuilder
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956188 in rebuildd (Ubuntu) "Sync rebuildd 0.4.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956188
<micahg> pabelanger: normally, you just use -e when requesting a sync and fill in the blank
<pabelanger> micahg: Okay, should I redo the request using it? 
<micahg> pabelanger: you can just do it locally without submitting and edit the request on launchpad
<pabelanger> ack'd
<micahg> pabelanger: I'll unsubscribe sponsors for you, just subscribe ubuntu-release when you're done
<pabelanger> roger
<pabelanger> micahg: thanks for the tip
<psusi> when a process is blocked in a system call, is there a way to get gdb to show what all and its args? 
<jtaylor> strace can do that
<jtaylor> though probably youi can't attach it to a running process :/
<psusi> you can... just was wondering if gdb can too
<jtaylor> doesn't setting a breakpoint work? 
<sbeattie> both gdb and strace can attach to a running process;
<psusi> yea, I can attach,  but is there a way once attached to have gdb show what system call and arguments the process is in, similar to strace? 
<jtaylor> ^C and look at the frame
<psusi> that just tries to show the user mode stack frames
<psusi> ( which are all unknown when you don't have debug syms )
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all! 
<mfisch> Following up on the Ubuntu fix I made last week, I'm sending it to debian.   Do I just attach the patch to an email to the bug? 
<mfisch> I assume there might be some magic phrase that tells everyone I added a patch
<mfisch> actually I just found TFM, I'll read
<jtaylor> reportbug -B debian will do everything correctly
<micahg> alternatively, if you have the new source that was uploaded and the old source package, you can use submittodebian
<mfisch> I did not know about either of those tools
<mfisch> and I misspoke, I didn't mean sending the bug, I meant sending the fix
<arand> mfisch: Yeah, you send the patch as an email attachment to the debian bug, if you are able to confirm that the patch works *on Debian* then you can CC the control server with "tag [bugnumber] + patch"
<arand> reportbug with automatically do the patch sending correctly. 
<arand> (as already mentioned)
<mfisch> arand: I harassed a local colleague/debian dev to confirm that after reading the manual
<mfisch> arand: trying to avoid looking like an idiot today...  but anyway the patch is attached and the bug is tagged
<arand> Nice :)
<mfisch> when debian accepts the fix, we can nuke the ubuntu one
<mfisch> which is our goal I think
<arand> mfisch: Usually is, yeah, is it a native package then? 
<mfisch> arand: yeah, live-manual
<arand> Ah, right (since otherwise the patch wouldn't be nuked, per se)
<mfisch> if debian re-did a fix and their patch also worked for ubuntu, we'd just switch to theirs right? 
<arand> Yeah, but we'd still carry the patch in the package, it would just be synced in from debian. 
<arand> (hence not nuked, per se)
<arand> Isn't live-manual-* non-native?  or is live-manual something else than live-manual-all? 
<cormiert> Hi! 
<ESphynx> Are Unity developers left-handed? 
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-16
<MTecknology> So... when a security vulnerability is found... do I care about what's in backports? 
<MTecknology> also... I think this is the first time I've ever sent something to a PPA with priority=high
<pabelanger> evening, ubuntu-release has ack'd my FFe for bug 956188.   Anybody able to sponsor the syncrequest? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956188 in rebuildd (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync rebuildd 0.4.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956188
<RAOF> pabelanger: Sure. 
<pabelanger> RAOF: Great, thanks
<micahg> MTecknology: for a security vuln in backports, the usual fix is to update the package in teh release and request a new backport
<MTecknology> micahg: It looks like I get to address 3 CVE issues instead of just 1
<micahg> MTecknology: yep, that's the catch :)
<mfisch> hey masters, there's a ftbfs that works fine for me in a pbuilder chroot
<mfisch> libkqueue
<mfisch> I will double check with an i386 pbuilder
<mfisch> if that works can someone redo the build? 
<micahg> mfisch: seems to be builder specific
<mfisch> this fits because the build failure is an odd hang, not a "real" error
<micahg> *launchpad buildd
<mfisch> micahg: what do you mean? 
<mfisch> works fine in i386 too
<micahg> mfisch: seems to be a problem specific to the buildd env
<mfisch> micahg: how can you tell that? 
<micahg> mfisch: common cause when stuff works locally and doesn't work on the buildds, I'd suggest uploading to a PPA to verify whether or not it's a buildd env specific issue
<mfisch> micahg: oh, I thought you had other logfiles or something
<mfisch> micahg: okay, I'll do a ppa
<mfisch> micahg: any idea why there's no bug for this? 
<mfisch> micahg: or better question, should I make one
<micahg> bug 852592
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852592 in libkqueue (Ubuntu Oneiric) "libkqueue version 1.0.4-2 failed to build" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852592
 * micahg just reopened it
<mfisch> micahg: it's failing on x86 too
<mfisch> micahg: according to the qa page
<micahg> mfisch: i386 and amd64 == x86 archs :)
<mfisch> micahg: ah ok
<mfisch> micahg: do I need to roll the version before a dput?   I did the dput, but I dont see any evidence of the upload nor do I have an email
<micahg> mfisch: try backportpackage
<mfisch> micahg: I'll try that thanks
<mfisch> micahg: I think dput doesn't like me tonight.   I should get an email pretty quickly about the dput
<micahg> mfisch: this time of night it might be delayed a little
<mfisch> micahg: I'm working on the python-djvulibre while waiting
<mfisch> I have a fix for python-djvulibre
<mfisch> well I know the fix
<mfisch> the fix for python-djvulibre ftbfs is to pull the latest copy from upstream, I noted that in #935385
<vibhav> Cam anybody sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glance/+bug/925609 ? 
<micahg> vibhav: in this case, you should probably talk to zul as he's been uploading this and has committed it upstream
<vibhav> Who is zul ? 
<micahg> vibhav: ubuntu server dev
<micahg> vibhav: he probably won't be around for another 9 or 10 hours though
<vibhav> ok
<vibhav> I email him then
<vibhav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maas/+bug/955451 can this bug be bought into precise? 
<dholbach> good morning
<vibhav> hi
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> Laney: how goes the haskell transition?  in other words, what can I pick at & sync? :) 
<Laney> anything which builds
<Laney> i'm not doing any until this evening at the earliest
<ajmitch> busy today? 
<Laney> somewhat
<ajmitch> is there a nicely presented list of haskell packages that may be syncable, or were you just using the transition tracker & comparing versions with debian? 
<Laney> all packages should have a new version in debian
<Laney> since sourceful uploads were required
<ajmitch> first one I looked at was removed from sid, that doesn't help :)
<Laney> i filed some removals already
<Laney> still pending
<ajmitch> so there's a standing FFe for new upstream versions as well, like haskell-yaml going from 0.4.1.1 to 0.5.2? 
<Laney> yeah
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> haskell-data-object was the first one I looked at , I hate LP saying '0 new bugs' & misleading me :)
<Rhonda> Do I need -e switch for syncpackage currently? 
<Rhonda> erm, not -e â¦   -e was syncrequest â¦
<ajmitch> Rhonda: looking to file an FFe? 
<tumbleweed> syncpackage has a -e, but only in non-native mode :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: yeah, sounds like you want requestsync -e
<Rhonda> -e means UPLOADER_EMAIL there, tumbleweed
<ajmitch> how inconsistent :)
<Rhonda> For beep it's just debconf translations added, so syncpackage is out of scope but requestsync -e is still needed, right? 
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: if there are no new features, just syncpackage
 * Rhonda .  o O ( will be my first upload to ubuntu main, yay :) )
<tumbleweed> if you want an ffe, file a sync request with an FFE (requestsync -e)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: you have upload rights to packages in main? 
<Rhonda> PPU
<Rhonda> for beep, irssi and â¦ there was a third one :)
<nigelb> irssi is in main?  woah. 
<ajmitch> Rhonda: beep sounds like such a critical package... :)
<Rhonda> ajmitch: for some architectures it is
<ajmitch> nigelb: it should be in ubuntu-minimal, imho
<tumbleweed> lol
<Rhonda> Ah, logcheck
<Rhonda> hmmmmmmmm
<Rhonda> syncpackage: Error: Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'. 
<Rhonda> why does it claim so â¦
<Rhonda> I think there is some failed check involved? 
<Rhonda> Whom to nag about it? 
<ajmitch> tumbleweed should know :)
 * Rhonda nibbles on tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> I'll look
<ajmitch> ubuntu-upload-permission looks useful, but doesn't list anyone except core-dev as being able to upload beep
<Laney> indeed rhonda has no PPU as far as launchpad is concerned
 * Rhonda is offended by Laney's initial disbelieve  :;)
<ajmitch> did the DMB approve some PPU rights for you? 
<ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-July/000253.html says yes :)
<Rhonda> Yes, and they asked why I didn't sign up for coredev membership right ahead  %-=
<tumbleweed> that's a single vote, not a decision
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: oh, was it? 
 * tumbleweed has a dig through meeting archives
 * ajmitch saw http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/dmb_record_keeping.html as well whch implied it was approved
<ajmitch> so 18 july should be the meeting to look for
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-July/000257.html is the vote
<ajmitch> yeah, I was close
 * Rhonda prodded cody to attend personally  %-)
<Rhonda> We were sitting at mr.  black in banja luka at that time  ;)
<ajmitch> debconf? 
 * Rhonda nods
<Rhonda> cody was like "oh, meeting is tonight?" 
<ajmitch> one year I'll try & get to that :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: looks like you chaired the next meeting, and there was no minutes review
<tumbleweed> stgraber: ^^^^ can you grant Rhonda the PPU rights she never got? 
<Laney> the horror
<ajmitch> Laney: you've picked all the easy ones off the ghc transition list, haven't you? 
<Laney> i don't have that impression
<ajmitch> I haven't had any build yet :)
<Laney> i know that libzip is busted though
<Laney> the ordering on that page sometimes lies
<ajmitch> libzip is seeded for kubuntu, I just tried that one
<tumbleweed> Laney: :)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: seeded-in-ubuntu is <3
<tumbleweed> glad to hear that
 * tumbleweed -> lunch
<ajmitch> woo, found one that builds
<Laney> i just build like 50-100 and sync all of those that worked :P
<ajmitch> Laney: I haven't done any such automation magic :)
<Laney> for i in *.dsc; do sbuild -d precise -s -A $i; done
<dholbach> thanks everyone who participated (we got from 50 to 30): http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/1glance-sponsoring/
<ajmitch> right, I have to parse the ghc.txt list to pass to pull-debian-source :)
<Laney> oh i'm not that automated
<Laney> for i in haskell-{a,b,c,d,e,f}; do pull-debian-source $i unstable; done :(
<ajmitch> Laney: you just grabbed the lot? 
<Laney> just get a couple of levels at a time
<ajmitch> I'll get onto it then, will sync haskell-sendfile since it built :)
<Laney> then i wrote a terrid script to sync all packages which have an _amd64.changes file
<ajmitch> dholbach: I think the results on there are wrong, and counting syncs where it shouldn't :)
<ajmitch> (just in the breakdown of uploaders)
<ajmitch> since I'm sure I didn't sponsor 10+ things in the last month
<dholbach> ajmitch, that might be the case - it was what I could get up in the shortest amount of time
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> still I'm happy to see us at 30 again
<ajmitch> yeah it's a good improvement
<dholbach> it'd be great to get some more done before beta 2 freeze
<dholbach> that will make it easier to keep on top of incoming requests once we're rolling towards final freeze
 * ajmitch wasn't sure what to do with a couple of largish merge proposals
<dholbach> yeah, they're tricky
<ajmitch> where they look to be patching an awful lot of upstream stuff for inconsequential things, like https://code.launchpad.net/~geoubuntu/ubuntu/precise/tvtime/tvtime.fix-372822+947845+947850+951473+more/+merge/96877
<dholbach> if it's stuff which should go upstream first, I usually say that and reject it - as harsh as that might seem
<ajmitch> I suspect that & gnomeradio (both MPs by the same person) should go upstream
<dholbach> althought it looks like in the case of tvtime all of these patches but one are upstream already
<ajmitch> just going from the origin in the patch headers? 
<dholbach> yep
<ajmitch> some are marked as upstream but from the bug tracker, or upstream & refers to a LP attachment
<dholbach> it might make sense to get it in and ask the guy to subscribe to the tvtime bugs to make sure they don't break stuff
<dholbach> mh
<dholbach> inactive upstream probably :/
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me, when you look at tvtime.sf.net :)
<ajmitch> last upstream release in 2005
<dholbach> he did the most of the last uploads to ubuntu
<ajmitch> right
<dholbach> it might make sense to just get it in and ask the guy to take over upstream :-)
<ajmitch> some of the patches referred to the in SF bug tracker date back to 2006, and have no comments
<ajmitch> seems a bit dead
<dholbach> :-(
<ajmitch> ubuntu is almost doing well compared to that
<dholbach> ha, think about what Ubuntu would be like if the last release had been in 2005 ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
<AlanBell> can someone help me get started with packaging one simple python script? 
<AlanBell> it is just an executeable script that adds quicklists to unity launcher, it does some dbus listening and has one dependency, plus a .desktop file that launches it on sesson startup
<AlanBell> all the packaging guides I have seen kind of assume that you are using something that builds or installs with setuptools or something, I don't know how to make a setup.py or whether I need one
<Laney> tumbleweed: help this man! ( I don't know what setuptools does for you to know whether it's required for dh_python2 to work)
<vibhav> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/956407 is fixed upstream, can I get it into Ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956407 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Precise) "Apport recipe attaches old/useless log files" [Medium,Triaged]
<ajmitch> vibhav: packages like that are best left to the ubuntuone developers, who upload their changes directly
<vibhav> then Ill pick another client
<vibhav> bug*
<vibhav> what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/943304 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 943304 in Ubuntu "LXC bind run_as_root commands are obviously wrong" [Undecided,New]
<vibhav> I have fixed several bugs in nova
<ajmitch> openstack, nova, etc are handled by a team who upload these packages to ubuntu
<vibhav> I could upload a debdiff
<vibhav> ajmitch: Is uploading a debdiff fine? 
<ajmitch> I don't think it'd generally be helpful in this case
<vibhav> ok
 * vibhav searches for bugs
<Laney> vibhav: you might find http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ useful
<Laney> it is a list of Release Critical bugs in Debian that are fixed and potentially not in Ubuntu
<Laney> each one requires some investigation
<vibhav> How Do I investigate them
<Laney> you look at the linked Debian bug and decide if it's not fixed in Ubuntu and if not then if it's worth updating our package to get the fix
<Laney> not fixed in â not fixed in or not applicable to
<vibhav> thanks Laney
<Laney> if you decide it is worth getting the fix then prepare the approprate sync or merge request to do so
<Laney> but you can always check with us if you are unsure
<vibhav> I will use requestsync right? 
<Laney> for syncs, yes
<Laney> be sure to justify in the request why the sync is required
<Laney> i.e. what bugs it fixes
<blueyed> I want to use pdebuild with pbuilder-dist, but "pdebuild --pbuilder pbuilder-precise" fails because pbuilder-dist/-precise is invoked using sudo. 
<blueyed> See also bug 377179
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 377179 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "Implement pdebuild-dist" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/377179
<vibhav> What will I need to put in the changelog? 
<vibhav> Will I need to change the Changelog in any way? 
<ajmitch> vibhav: if you've made changes to a package, then you need to list those changes in the changelog
<vibhav> ajmitch: I have not made any changes, I am just requesting a sync
<Laney> then you don't have a changelog
<vibhav> ok
<vibhav> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=660553 is updated for python 2.7, shall I request a sync? 
<ubottu> Debian bug 660553 in flumotion "flumotion fails to start" [Grave,Fixed]
<arand> vibhav: If you have tested that it builds and works on ubuntu as well, I would. 
<vibhav> ok
<vibhav> I need to test it Ubuntu too
<vibhav> understood
<ScottK> jtaylor: Could you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/956901?   I recall you working on something similar before. 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956901 in python-numpy (Ubuntu) "Failing `import numpy.distutils.core` with python-numpy package installed" [Undecided,New]
<iulian> Laney: Sorry, I've been utterly busy with uni for the past few days.  Didn't even have the time to get on IRC, hence the delayed reply.  I will have a look at those removals today in the evening when I get back home or tomorrow if you haven't done them already. 
<Laney> iulian: already did the ones i noticed
<Laney> i haven't done any systematic analysis though
<ajmitch> iulian: it's ok, he recruited me to help with rebuilds as well :)
<iulian> Laney: Oh OK. 
<iulian> ajmitch: Heh, that's brilliant! 
<iulian> Cheers ajmitch. 
<ajmitch> iulian: I've only just started on them, there's a few to do :)
<iulian> ajmitch: Well, it's a tedious job but don't let this hold you back. :) 
<ajmitch> haha
<iulian> I'll buy you a pint of lager if you do some. 
<ajmitch> synced about 20 so far tonight :)
<iulian> Nice! 
<iulian> 300 more to go. :) 
<iulian> Getting close. 
<ajmitch> well, the transition page lists about 120 to go, so not that bad :)
<iulian> Oh, that's good. 
<ajmitch> laney's done most of the work I think
<iulian> Laney's a rock star, we both know this already. 
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> \m/
<tumbleweed> Laney, AlanBell: sorry, it was a long lunch.  Sorted? 
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: hi
<AlanBell> I want to know where to get started when packaging one python script that just runs
<AlanBell> do I need to do some python setuptools stuff to wrap around it before it can be put in a .deb? 
<tumbleweed> is it a single .py file? 
<tumbleweed> if so, nothing special required, just dh_install it to /usr/bin and depend on python
<AlanBell> it has one dependency, and a .desktop file to shove in /etc somewhere to start it on session start
<tumbleweed> there's nothing python-specific for you to worry about then
<AlanBell> ok, but I still don't know where to start :)
<tumbleweed> can you point me at the source? 
<AlanBell> is there a tutorial or guide that I could look at, all the stuff I find seems to be for things that you download wtih a .tar.gz and compile
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/quicklists.py source
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unity-window-quicklists.deb bad attempt at a .deb
<AlanBell> my .deb has permissions errors and is just a finished .deb, not a source .deb so I don't think I can put it in a ppa
<tumbleweed> you probably want that in a bzr repo or something (not that this matters for packaging)
<AlanBell> yeah, I should put it in bzr
<tumbleweed> I suggest writing a simple Makefile to install it, then the packaging is easy
<tumbleweed> and I think a Makefile is easier to write than a setup.py
<Laney> for one file?  why not just use dh_install (modulo renaming)? 
<tumbleweed> or that
<tumbleweed> actually, yes, that
<AlanBell> ok, is there a guide? 
<arand> Laney: Modulo renaming? 
<tumbleweed> (I was thinking defensively, you don't want dh trying to do someting with a build system it thinks youhave), but that' isn't a danger here
<arand> AlanBell: 'man dh_install' is one ref
<AlanBell> arand: yeah, reading that, I don't quite get it though
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: read one of the usual packaging guides (I like wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging )
<arand> echo "foobin usr/bin" > debian/foo.install
<tumbleweed> and just be aware that you don't have a Makefile or anything like that, that you are just oging to install the bits you want, with dh_install
<AlanBell> so do I run dh_install or put dh_install lines in some of the scripts in the DEBIAN directory? 
<arand> AlanBell: If you use dh7 it is run automatically via d/rules "dh $@"
<AlanBell> using Precise so presumeably the latest stuff
<AlanBell> so do I need to create a filestructure that mirrors where I want stuff to end up?  or is that what the dh_install replaces in the source package? 
<tumbleweed> that's what dh_install will help you with
<AlanBell> in the directory I made the binary package with I have DEBIAN etc usr
<tumbleweed> however dh_install won't let you change file names, so it helps if the files already have the final name
<tumbleweed> (e.g. no .py for stuff going into /usr/bin)
<arand> (or you could do a simple override to rename it)
<Laney> that is waht I mean by modulo renaming
<Laney> if you have to rename then it's a bit more difficult
<tumbleweed> Laney: you have anything to raise before the release meeting?  I don't
<AlanBell> ok, so I need the quicklists and unity-window-quicklists.desktop files in the top level with the DEBIAN directory
<Laney> just tell them ghc is in hand
<arand> Ah, I though this was some fancy option to dh :D
<ajmitch> the ghc list is slowly getting shorter :)
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: s/DEBIAN/debian/
<Laney> is there a freeze soon? 
<tumbleweed> Laney: not that far off
<tumbleweed> FFe requests seem to have slowed down (or I'm not getting to my e-mail enough
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: oh lowercase for source package and upper case for binary is it? 
<arand> AlanBell: It can be wherever in the source dir, just set the location accordingly in the install file. 
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: yes
<arand> AlanBell: Do you have the source with a debian/ dir, including rules copyright etc already set up? 
<AlanBell> arand: well no, I am trying to figure out what goes in the debian directory
<arand> dh_make can make you a template
<Laney> use dh_make and remove all of the *.ex *.EX README.*  from debian/
<Laney> then you need to make a debian/packagename.install file (see man dh_install) and edit the fields in debian/control
<Laney> specifically to depend on python
<arand> It can be just d/install without the name in this case, unless you want multiple binary packages
<Laney> it can be a lot of things
<Laney> but let's not present all of the options all of the time
<AlanBell> I don't want multiple binary packages!  this is hello world level stuff :)
<AlanBell> ok, so I don't have dh_make and E: Unable to locate package dh_make
<tumbleweed> it's called dh-make
<arand> but the command is with _
<AlanBell> ah, so it is, thanks
<AlanBell> ok, that worked.  Now where do the dh_install lines go? 
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: dh will call dh_install for you
<tumbleweed> so just create a debian/install / debian/packagename.install file to configure it
<arand> The format is: "path/in/source/foo install/dir", e.g. "scripts/foo usr/bin"
<AlanBell> this has possibly done something good, dpkg-buildpackage does a load of stuff now
<tumbleweed> that's dh doing all the usual stuff for you
<pabelanger> I have 2 merge requests up on launchpad (my first ones) should I be subscribed to ubuntu-sponsors to help move them along? 
<tumbleweed> nothing you need to do
<tumbleweed> do you see it on the sponsorship queue?  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<pabelanger> tumbleweed, no
<tumbleweed> pabelanger: links? 
<pabelanger> bug 954915 and bug 953093
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 954915 in nova (Ubuntu) "Add dbconfig-common support to nova" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 953093 in glance (Ubuntu) "Add dbconfig-common support to glance" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953093
<tumbleweed> pabelanger: I guess we don't monitor ubuntu-server-dev branches in the sponsorship queue
<pabelanger> tumbleweed, okay so patience then :)
<tumbleweed> pabelanger: ask #ubuntu-server
<pabelanger> ya, have been for the last few days, not much of a response.   I assume they are busy; that's why I tried here. 
<pabelanger> I'll wait it out and see what happens
<jokerdino> chrisccoulson: are we getting Firefox 12 for 12.04 or sticking with Firefox 11? 
<chrisccoulson> jokerdino, 12.04 will have the latest firefox release ;)
<jokerdino> since the beta usually has the beta, will we have firefox beta? 
<jokerdino> bleh,
<jokerdino> i mean, usually ubuntu+1 has a beta firefox version, are we getting on firefox 12 beta..
<chrisccoulson> well, firefox 12 isn't released until after ubuntu 12.04 is released
<chrisccoulson> so, no ;)
<jokerdino> i see.  thanks! 
<chrisccoulson> but you can install the beta in the usual way (https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next)
<jokerdino> coolios. 
<technoviking> jokerdino: the LTS should get many of the future FF updates
<technoviking> asking for a $500,00 VMWare/SAN solution at work.  Lets see how this lead ballon flys
<jokerdino> good news that is. 
<stgraber> tumbleweed, Rhonda: only added irssi and logcheck as beep is in universe
<shadeslayer> ScottK: hmm, I agree with that email, kile should pull in texlive-latex-extra
<ScottK> shadeslayer: OK.   First thing, I'd reply to the mail and say you are looking into it. 
<shadeslayer> ok
<tumbleweed> stgraber: ta
<wookey> If I find a cross-build issue that is the same in Debian and Ubuntu, and there isn;t already an ubuntuN package version should I still file two bugs and patches and link them? 
<wookey> (the ubuntu patch only being differnt by dint of chanigng maintainer field and addingan ubuntuN to the version number
<micahg> wookey: if the Debian fix will get in quickly, I'd just suggest filing there and syncing (asking for FFe if necessary) when fixed
<micahg> wookey: unless it's on an image
<wookey> OK, so the sync stuff can only happen after the debian package is uploaded - there is no 'pre-emptive' version. 
<wookey> the thin is you never know how long the debian upload will take...
<micahg> wookey: well, there's no need for it unless the fix is needed immediately
<micahg> or it's on an image and you want to insure it's fixed for precise
<wookey> OK.  I'll try filing a few in Debian and give it a week
<wookey> BTW two out of threee of the 'ARM porting jam' multiarch fixes are in http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ by whatever magic makes that happen.  Not sure why not the 3rd? 
<wookey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk-doc/+bug/957137
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 957137 in gtk-doc (Ubuntu) "(FTCBFS) gtk-doc needs multi-arch metadata to satisfy build-dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<micahg> wookey: ubuntu-sponsors isn't subscribed
<micahg> wookey: I'm piloting monday, if they're still there, I can have a look
<wookey> right - but I didn;t do that for the first two either.  Maybe someone else did
<micahg> wookey: yeah, there's a bot that subscribes sponsors when a debdiff is attached
<wookey> right and the 3rd one has a patch too. 
<micahg> yeah, it'll probably get to it, it runs on a cron I think
<wookey> OK.  I've been quite impressed how fast thing tend to move round here after the sometimes glacial processing of Debian bugs :-)
<micahg> wookey: we've been working on improving the processes :)
<Rhonda> stgraber: Erm, the source is in main
<Rhonda> stgraber: So I get permission denied for uploading beep source.   The beep binary is in universe, you are right.   Maybe the beep udeb is in main? 
<stgraber> Rhonda: sorry, I checked with apt-cache show and not showsrc :( fixed! 
<Rhonda> No worries - this is strange to me too. :) 
 * Laney boops
<Rhonda> liboops? 
<Rhonda> stgraber: So I should be able to issue the syncpackage already?   Or is there some expected regular schedule delay or something? 
<stgraber> Rhonda: yep
<Laney> the former
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for rhonda: archive 'primary', source package 'logcheck'
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for rhonda: archive 'primary', source package 'irssi'
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for rhonda: archive 'primary', source package 'beep'
<stgraber> Rhonda: I did the changes directly in LP's ACLs so uploads and syncs should all work now
<Rhonda> syncpackage: Request succeeded; you should get an e-mail once it is processed. 
<Rhonda> thanks :)
<Rhonda> hmm, what to do with upstart in a chroot â¦
<psusi> Rhonda: what do you mean? 
<Rhonda> I managed to create with pbuilder a chroot for lucid.   Did log into it, installed cowdancer and then extracted the tarball to work with cowdancer
<Laney> I guess you want https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/430224/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430224 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init: support chroots" [Medium,Fix released]
<Rhonda> I then copied the lucid cowbuilder chroot to maverick and tried to upgrade, which failed  %-/
<Rhonda> There is no upstart running for me outside the chroot
<Rhonda> â¦ giving it a try.   Thanks for the link. :) 
<Rhonda> Worked for maverick, natty and oneiric.  With precise I have python related issues with the upgrade   *ponders*
<Rhonda> Ah, wait, trying to upgrade from lucid directly, my fault. 
<jtaylor> ScottK: re numpy bug, it should probably be changed to gcc -print-multiarch, which is more commonly installed than dpkg-dev
<micahg> jtaylor: dpkg-dev is in build-essential
<micahg> as is gcc
<jtaylor> yes but apparently the reported does nto have it installed
<jtaylor> I should have wrapped the thing into a try except instead of just checking the returncode :/
<jtaylor> on the otherhand this issue would not have been found then
 * micahg would think neither is a good solution for a runtime dep without an actual dependency although gcc is installed by default
<jtaylor> the whole solution is a hack :/
<micahg> jtaylor: right, but if you need either one, you need to declare a dependency on it
<micahg> or at least a recommends if it's not a common code path
<micahg> in that case, gcc is better as it's already installed
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all! 
<jtaylor> yey someone made a patch for py3 numpy :D unfortunatly to late for precise :(
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: arand: Laney: thanks for your help, I think I have a working package in a PPA now :)
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/03/16/unity-window-quicklists
<arand> AlanBell: Looks like you need tmux :Ã¾
<AlanBell> tmux is a console based window manager
<AlanBell> and yeah some of them are byobu windows
<AlanBell> unity is a window manager.  Having windows shouldn't confuse it! 
<jtaylor> ScottK: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/precise/python-numpy/lp956901/+merge/97974
<jtaylor> for nump
<ScottK> jtaylor: If you want me to upload it, debdiff please, but I'm a bit tied up with $WORK right now. 
<jtaylor> no rush
<arand> AlanBell: Oh, the quicklist actually integrates with byoubu (i.e. tmux/screen) windows? 
<AlanBell> arand: no, not specially
<arand> Aw :( would be really cool otherwise. 
<AlanBell> wonder if that could be done
<AlanBell> mostly I just have quite a few gnome-terminal sessions open
<plipp1> Hi guys, I tried branching/checking out foobillard to create a lokal package, but during package creation, I get:
<plipp1> Need to get 86.3 kB/21.6 MB of archives.  After unpacking 81.3 MB will be used. 
<plipp1> Writing extended state information...
<plipp1> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise/main libglib2.0-data all 2.31.20-0ubuntu2
<plipp1>   404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.180 80]
<plipp1> E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glib2.0/libglib2.0-data_2.31.20-0ubuntu2_all.deb: 404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.180 80]
<plipp1> E: Unable to correct for unavailable packages
<plipp1> I see that libglib2.0 seems to be in lucid [but I have it installed on precise]
<plipp1> foobillards is in precise but not the required libs? 
<plipp1> Or what exactly is going on? 
<plipp1> sorry, 'foobillard'
<ScottK> plipp1: libglib2.0-data exists, it's just there's a newer version.   You need to run apt-get update
<jtaylor> try updating
<plipp1> ScottK: apt-get upgrade rather. :) 
<plipp1> yes, ubuntu2 rather than ubuntu3 was installed..  Let's see what happens
<ScottK> No, apt-get update.   What you posted indicates your package index is out of date. 
<ScottK> Then upgrade, sure, but first you need an updated package index
<plipp1> ScottK: I seem to not fully understand how that works.   I was under the impression that if I've done an update and something wants to install a newer dependency, things would fall through
<ScottK> The error you showed indicated your package index was out of date. 
<ScottK> So step one, apt-get update refreshes the index so it knows about the newer version. 
<ScottK> Then when you upgrade or when it gets pulled in as a depends, you should get the newer/correct one. 
<ScottK> libglib2.0-data | 2.31.20-0ubuntu3 |       precise | all    <-- is current. 
<plipp1> ScottK: Hmm..  Okay.  But still, when it comes to the error message, I thought I had 2.31.20-0ubuntu2 installed which is what it tried to fetch (I know it can't find that though, as the version that exists there is -ubuntu3). 
<ScottK> That error message means it was trying to fetch ubuntu2 and failed. 
<plipp1> Yes, that's what I think it's saying too.  I just thought that that's what I had installed already.  Quite sure synaptic said that ubuntu2 was installed and was upgradable (to ubuntu3).  Is that possible or does my memory certainly fail me? 
<plipp1> oh crap, upgrade gets stuck at replacing 'bluez'
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-17
<psusi> what's the tool that generates packages.gz etc so you can make a cdrom containing packages to install? 
<MTecknology> so.. how do you go about requesting a sync for something that's not a stable release yet? 
<MTecknology> I want to request a sync for a package because of a CVE
<arand> MTecknology: What do you meant by not a "stable release"
<MTecknology> arand: oneiric, not released yet, but very close to it
<MTecknology> arand: the update will be in debian stable-security pretty soon
<arand> MTecknology: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ForDebianDevelopers#Getting_updates_into_Ubuntu seems to be one reference for how it goes. 
<arand> MTecknology: Only in the case of a D-U version match is there syncing (security fake sync), in all other cases it seems you'll go via standard patching if I've read that correctly
<plipp> I'm still having the same problem with libglib2.0-data after upgrade. :( 
<plipp> trying to build a package of my checked out 'foobillard', and get:
<plipp> 0 packages upgraded, 101 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 
<plipp> Need to get 86.3 kB/21.6 MB of archives.  After unpacking 81.3 MB will be used. 
<plipp> Writing extended state information...
<plipp> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise/main libglib2.0-data all 2.31.20-0ubuntu2
<plipp>   404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.181 80]
<plipp> E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glib2.0/libglib2.0-data_2.31.20-0ubuntu2_all.deb: 404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.181 80]
<plipp> E: Unable to correct for unavailable packages
<plipp> installed version is 2.31.20-0ubuntu3
<plipp> The error was interpreted to me earlier as me not having done an upgrade.   But to me, something's requiring an older package here. 
<ScottK> apt doesn't work that way. 
<ScottK> It would have given you a dependency error, not tried to get an older package. 
<ScottK> plipp: Can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list somewhere? 
<plipp> ScottK: Absolutely
<plipp> http://pastebin.com/L3E8iFji
<ScottK> plipp: Could you pastebin the full upgrade log, from sudo apt-get upgrade to the ends. 
<plipp> ScottK: Yes, if the upgrade log is available somewhere?   (The error is during the local package build)
<plipp> apt/history.log? 
<ScottK> /var/log/dist-upgrade
<ScottK> Actually, nevermind. 
<ScottK> Are you using pbuilder? 
<plipp> pbuilder-dist <release> build ../<package>_<version>.dsc
<plipp> pbuilder-dist precise build ../foobillard_<version>.dsc
<plipp> 3.0a-5 being version, to be exact
<plipp> ScottK:  full result of `pbuilder-dist precise build ../foobillard_3.0a-5`  http://pastebin.com/jH1zrk5p
<ScottK> I understand now. 
<ScottK> The installed version in your system is ubuntu3. 
<ScottK> pbuilder has it's own cache (so you can run pbuilder for different releases than the one you're on)
<ScottK> That's the pbuilder cache that's out of date (sorry, I missed it was part of a build before)
<ScottK> plipp: do pbuilder-dist precise update and then try again. 
<plipp> Ok
<plipp> Does 'dpkg: pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: dependency problems, but configuring anyway as you requested:' got to do anything with it, perhaps? 
<ScottK> That's normal. 
<ScottK> You just need to periodically run pbuilder update to keep it's internal packages file and cache up to date. 
<plipp> Aha.  Is there any particular reason why pbuilder update is not run with apt update? 
<plipp> or upgrade, rather
<ScottK> Two separate things. 
<ScottK> You may have good reason not to update one or the other. 
<ScottK> I have pbuilder chroots for every supported Ubuntu release.   Running update on them every time I did apt-get update would take a LONG time. 
<plipp> ScottK: Okay, I'll buy that. :)      Thing seemed to go much better now..  but something awkward..:
<plipp> ....
<plipp> dh_builddeb
<plipp> dpkg-deb: building package `foobillard' in `../foobillard_3.0a-5_amd64.deb'. 
<plipp> ....
<plipp> I: pbuilder-time-stamp: 1331962790
<plipp> The ./foobillard_3.0a-5_amd64.deb is no where in my working directory..   does it end up somewhere completely different..? 
<plipp> ah, updatedb & locate did it..
<plipp> under pbuilder, it seems
<plipp> You live, you learn. 
<plipp> ScottK: I highly appreciate your patience.  Thanks a lot
<ScottK> plipp: You're welcome.   We were all new at this once. 
<plipp> ScottK: Seems like foobillards has been dead since 2007.  I was thinking of c++:ify it, fix some bugs and turn it more into a snooker-specific game.   So a fork really...
<ScottK> Dunno.   Not my sort of thing.   If it scratches your itch though, go for it. 
<plipp> ScottK: Just felt like informing you what I'm playing with here, given all the help.   I don't know if this kind of stuff is anything that are usually added to the ubuntu repositories (should be enough with one version of the same software).   It's more of an exercise for myself. 
<ScottK> Usually we get new packages like this through Debian. 
<plipp> ScottK: Yep, that's what I felt
<bullgard4> Where are there on my Ubuntu computer  Source package control files -- debian/control?  http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html '~$ find / -name '*debian/control*' 2>/dev/null does not provide any output. 
<tbf_> how can i restart a cancelled build? 
<valdur55> Hey.  Where i should place application app indicator icons? 
<valdur55> Oh damn... google knows answer :)
<dsfsd> There's a serious problem with Ubuntu... UNITY is pushing real users that have real work to do away from the distribution!  There's a serious problem with Ubuntu... UNITY is pushing real users that have real work to do away from the distribution!  There's a serious problem with Ubuntu... UNITY is pushing real users that have real work to do away from the distribution! 
<jtaylor> to bad one more repetition would have convinced me
 * ajmitch wonders why people come into -motu to rant about non-universe stuff
<ajmitch> with that, I wish compiz weren't using ~2G of RAM that it wants to swap in when trying to use my computer in the morning ;)
<jtaylor> I wish X wouldn't crash when I try to watch a video :/
<jtaylor> I'm still stuck on oneiric due to that, last cycle I was on oneiric permanent after a3 :/
<ajmitch> heh, I'm just watching iotop as this laptop thrashes swap for a minute or so
<ajmitch> peaked at ~275MB/sec disk read :)
<jtaylor> :O
<ScottK> ajmitch: Was that meant to be self-referential wonderment? 
<ajmitch> ScottK: I just had to complain, you know? :) 
<ScottK> Right, but I was wondering about the complaint followed by kvetching about compiz. 
<JontheEchidna> personally, I'd just use a sane compositing manager like kwin :P
<ajmitch> I was just commenting on people that complain in a place where the appropriate people to fix stuff aren't listening
 * ajmitch at least follows up with LP bugs 
<ajmitch> anyway, I have to run :)
<jalcine> JontheEchidna: lol, me too. 
<tbf_> hi, is there any way to restart a manually cancelled ppa build? 
<tbf_> or do i have to dput a fake release to trigger an entirely new build? 
<imbrandon> ajmitch: its where most the other bitching happens so seems natural ?  heh
#ubuntu-motu 2012-03-18
<vibhav> Good Morning
<ajmitch> Laney: how goes your haskell rebuilding-the-world? 
<ajmitch> Laney: ok to add haskell-attoparsec-text to bug 955521 ? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 955521 in haskell-xml-enumerator (Ubuntu) "Various discontinued Haskell packages to remove from precise" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955521
<ajmitch> whoops, didn't spot one of those packages was synced & waiting in the source NEW queue :)
<iulian> ajmitch: Don't bugger up like I did. :( 
<ajmitch> iulian: what did you do wrong? 
 * ajmitch synced a package that was needed for another to build, just didn't see it in source NEW before syncing
<iulian> ajmitch: Those few syncs that shouldn't have been done yet? 
<ajmitch> so I guess an archive admin can reject my sync
<ajmitch> iulian: they'll get sorted out soon enough
<iulian> Well yea...
<ajmitch> just have to wait for some other packages to get approved from NEW & then they can build
 * iulian nods. 
 * iulian is off now. 
<iulian> Thanks again ajmitch. :) 
<ajmitch> I didn't mean to chase you off :)
<iulian> Hah, I'm sure you didn't.  I've got loads of other stuff to do. :( 
<Laney> ajmitch: yeah.  we should do something systematic about that bug really
<ajmitch> Laney: just syncing a few more, I've noticed a few new packages that need to get dragged in
<ajmitch> hopefully all this can be sorted by beta freeze
<Laney> good work
<Laney> want to poke an archive admin to denew? 
<ajmitch> might not be the best time of day for that :)
<Laney> someone will see it when they see it
<ajmitch> I might poke someone tomorrow about it
<iamgood> hi i wanna become a network and security programmer
<iamgood> how can i ? 
<iamgood> please guide me
<ScottK> Laney: deNew'd
<Laney> ScottK: Thanks a lot
<Pikkachu> hi, I tried to compile pidgin in 11.10 but failed, ./configure is ok but make keeps complaining about missing .libs/x.tpo files
<Laney> ScottK: A few more up in NEW for you if you'd be so kind
 * Laney disappears to the shop
<fdoving> Pikkachu: you probably need the build-deps, apt-get build-dep pidgin or something similar. 
<Pikkachu> sorry I was disconnected
<Pikkachu> can anyone help me? 
<fdoving> Pikkachu: do you have all the build-deps installed?  you can also try a make clean, and then re-run configure. 
<Pikkachu> fdoving: if $apt-get install build-dep didn't lie to me, yes? 
<Pikkachu> can't anyone actually try the same as me?? 
<Pikkachu> $apt-get source pidgin && cd pidgin-dir && ./configure && make? 
<Pikkachu> Ubuntu 11.10 here
<jtaylor> does it work with debuild -us -uc? 
<jtaylor> maybe some patches must be applied first
<ajmitch> Laney: I'll try & do another pass of haskell packages this evening, it looks like progress has been made though :)
<ajmitch> I see you've synced a few packages into NEW that I was going to eventually get to :)
<Laney> good stuff
<Laney> it is progressing still, albeit more slowly
<ajmitch> Laney: switching to sbuild helped me read the failures a bit better - is there a way you can get sbuild to cache packages that it has downloaded, like pbuilder can? 
<Laney> don't think so, I just use apt-cacher-ng
<jtaylor> nice upstream answer to a patch of mine: "are you willing and able to swear on your life that the patch will not break any system where fftw currently runs"
<ajmitch> ah right
<jtaylor> what am I supposed to anwser to that except no
<ajmitch> jtaylor: unless you have every obscure combination of hardware & software? :) 
<yellowduino> reminds me of my managers questions :D
<ajmitch> "guarantee that this code will never in any circumstances have bugs"
<JanC> that answer sounds more like a half-joke to me  ;)
<jtaylor> apparently not as they won't apply the patch until its tested everywhere ._.
<jtaylor> and its a 3 line diff in the build system :/
<jtaylor> at least they have no issues with it being added to debian
<JanC> they don't have development releases that get tested? 
<jtaylor> it is a minor issue, it only breaks package dependencies and maybe as-needed builds
<broder> ScottK: looks like the lintian lab rebuild has finished.  what was it that you wanted to look for? 
<micahg> apt-cacher-ng FTW
<ajmitch> micahg: yeah, when I'm at home I have a local mirror, so I don't worry about it too much
<plipp> Hi, I have added '99-antusb.rules' into /etc/udev/rules.d and restarted udev, yet I seem to get permission issues when accessing the device
<plipp> The content of the file is:
<plipp> SUBSYSTEM=="usb", SYSFS{idVendor}=="0fcf", SYSFS{idProduct}=="1008", MODE="666"
<ajmitch> Laney: fwiw, haskell-leksah is missing a build-dep on libghc-quickcheck2-dev - I'd file a bug on debian but that'll have to wait until I have time to update sid :)
 * ajmitch shall do it later today though
<ScottK> broder: Thanks. 
<ScottK> Laney: I've been hitting a bunch of them as I have time. 
<ajmitch> ScottK: thanks for approving them, there's almost light at the end of the tunnel with the haskell stuff :)
<ScottK> Is haskell-yesod-routes expected to only get builton some archs? 
<ajmitch> it looks unbuilt on debian as well on arm* & powerpc
<ajmitch> there are a few like that which build-depend on ghc-ghci, which is provided by ghc
 * ajmitch doesn't know nearly enough about it all to say why it's been done that way
<ajmitch> looks like it's intentional, and provided only on a few archs
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> All caught up now. 
<ScottK> debfx: Do you want to fix pythonqt in Ubuntu or would you rather I do it? 
<diarmuid> Hello I would love to get involved with packaging and maintaining Xubuntu/Ubuntu. 
<diarmuid> Or developing for Xubuntu how would I go about starting this? 
<debfx> ScottK: I can upload it
<ScottK> debfx: OK.  Great. 
<Rcart> diarmuid: Take a look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<Laney> ScottK: yeah, in general Haskell support is only 100% on x86
<Laney> i'll need to get some OOD binaries removed manually
<ajmitch> cull that ftbfs list a bit, there are a few too many haskell packages on there
<ajmitch> (nearly) everything I've synced has built on all archs
<ScottK> Laney: OK.    Thanks. 
<Laney> sigh, one ppc buildd out of action
<ajmitch> that won't help it catch up
<micahg> Laney: I'll get that looked at, thanks for noticing
<ajmitch> though I'm impressed that it only has 5 jobs in the queue
<micahg> been a slow weekend
<micahg> well, I guess more a slow big package weekend (and someone forgot to get libreoffice uploaded :D)
<ajmitch> seems to have only been haskell stuff thrown at the buildds :)
<micahg> yeah, which is relatively fast builds
<ajmitch> yup
<ajmitch> Laney: any other big transitions planned for this week? :) 
 * micahg was debating doing hdf5, but probably won't have the time
<Laney> libc7
<jtaylor> is hdf5 ready in debian? 
<ajmitch> micahg: I heard that could be painful
<jtaylor> if it is I could help
<micahg> yeah, all minus a few packages
<ajmitch> we could always try for that boost transition that was after DIF
<micahg> jtaylor: still needs an FFe :)
<micahg> ajmitch: I think you should recalibrate your pain meter :0
<ajmitch> micahg: yeah that'd be asking for trouble the week of beta freeze
<micahg> jtaylor: we should do a test rebuild before starting with hdf5, do you have time for that? 
<micahg> PPAs are empty at the moment :)
<jtaylor> maybe
<ajmitch> how many packages are involved in the hdf5 transition? 
<micahg> ~50 IIRC
<ajmitch> not so bad
<jtaylor> http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/hdf5.html
<jtaylor> but it are lots of science packages :/
<micahg> if we remove the stuff not in testing, it's ready for us
<jtaylor> and those are often of mediocre quality
<ajmitch> jtaylor: lots of slow builds? 
<jtaylor> and that
<jtaylor> Laney: can you maybe set up a tracker for hdf5? 
<jtaylor> though I don't think I'll have time and it is very late
<Laney> if you give me the details
<Laney> but not tonight
<Laney> are you sure you want to do this at this stage? 
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> probably a bad idea
<micahg> well, the binaries of hdf5 aren't seeded, so we still have ~4 weeks
<micahg> we had this same version in lucid as we have now in precise, so I think it's worth doing if people have time (hopefully is just a rebuild test and uploads since all the work was done in Debian)
<jtaylor> I can start a rebuild tomorrow and see how it looks
<micahg> jtaylor: thanks, I can help with the uploads later this week (Tue night/wed)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-11
<dholbach> good morning
<c2tarun> can anyone please in figuring out that why is my 91% RAM is full?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5604638/   when I took this data only steam was running with downloading a game.  But my 91% RAM is full. 
<c2tarun> sorry wrong channel :(
<Zhenech> its not
<Zhenech> it's about 1/3 full
<Zhenech> rest is buffers, cache, which gets cleaned when needed
<jpds> ! ram | c2tarun
<ubottu> c2tarun: If you are wondering why some tools report your system has very little free memory, have a look at http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ | A short primer on Linux memory management can be found here: http://sourcefrog.net/weblog/software/linux-kernel/free-mem.html
<Zhenech> jpds, cheater ;)
<c2tarun> Zhenech, jpds thanks :)
<lfaraone> ScottK: Could you copy over the OpenAFS SRU? 
<ScottK> Sure. 
<ScottK> lfaraone: Done. 
<lfaraone> Thanks! 
<ESphynx> 'morning
<Logan_> Does anyone know why ghc 7.6.2-1 hasn't migrated from raring-proposed to raring yet?  There doesn't appear to be a reason for it in the excuses. 
<Laney> look in output, not excuses
<Logan_> The output doesn't make much sense to me. :/ 
<Laney> perhaps not, but it does explain why
<Laney> "huge gnarly transition"
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html is a better view
<Logan_> Oh, I see. 
<Logan_> But those builds are against the current ghc version in raring, no? 
<Laney> that page shows raring and raring-proposed
<Laney> the highest version
<ESphynx> ScottK: hi :)
<ScottK> Hi ESphynx
<ESphynx> ScottK: So I released 0.44.04 yesterday, put it on mentors.debian.net :) I'm hoping it will make it into Raring =)
<ScottK> Is it bug fix only over what we have now or are there new features? 
<ESphynx> ScottK: that's the new features . 
<ESphynx> ScottK: 64 bit support
<ScottK> Then you'll need to file a feature freeze exception request. 
<ESphynx> before it didn't have 64 bit support
<ESphynx> ScottK: it's not integrated into Debian yet though... not sure if xnox will have time to sponsor it
<ScottK> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<ESphynx> ScottK: so I should go ahead and file a LP bug before the package is into Debian? 
<ScottK> Yes.   You can go ahead. 
<ESphynx> ScottK: How's that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecere-sdk/+bug/1153763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1153763 in ecere-sdk (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update to Ecere SDK 0.44.04 for 64 bit support" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> ESphynx: That's a start.   There's other information asked for. 
<ESphynx> I suck at reading. 
<ESphynx> An explanation of the testing which has been performed on the new version in Ubuntu, including verification that the new package: ... You mean this? 
<ScottK> IIRC build logs too. 
<ESphynx> ScottK: I have a ppa that built with it on Debian, would that be good? 
<ESphynx> on Raring*
<ScottK> Yes. 
<Logan_> Gah, is there a setting for pbuilder so that it doesn't use old cached versions of packages if the requested Build-Depends doesn't exist? 
<jtaylor> export APTCACHE=""
<Logan_> But that turns off the cache altogether, no? 
<ESphynx> ScottK: how's that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecere-sdk/+bug/1153763
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1153763 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153763).  The error has been logged
<ScottK> ESphynx: I'm doing $work at the moment, so I can't really look at it in detail.   Just make sure you provide all the information asked for. 
<ESphynx> ScottK : thanks. 
 * Laney wonders why Haskell library developers bump dep version requirements for no apparent reason
<LordOfTime> can i get a bugfix into raring for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1132678 due to "high" priority?   It doesn't modify features, so I"m not sure it needs FFe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1132678 in nginx (Ubuntu) "nginx: [emerg] bind() to [::]:80 failed (98: Address already in use)" [High,Fix committed]
<TheLordOfTime> assuming I upload the debdiff that is
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: bug fixes don't need an FFe. 
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, so they'll still get through sponsorship given freeze? 
<jtaylor> how does one get access to error reports on errors.ubuntu.com? 
<cjohnston> jtaylor: bugsquad
<cjohnston> iirc
<jtaylor> I am in bugsquad but it tells me no access :(
<cjohnston> bugcontrol then maybe? 
<jtaylor> in there, not bugsquad
<jtaylor> control > squad I guess? 
<cjohnston> looks like maybe it got taken away
<cjohnston> ask ev
<TheLordOfTime> cjohnston, bugcontrol. 
<TheLordOfTime> (confirming your second sttement)
<TheLordOfTime> statement*
<TheLordOfTime> at the minimum, i think. 
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-12
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, standard "subscribe ubuntu-sponsors" method for bugfixing a raring package, or do I need to follow a different procedure than standard? 
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: ubuntu-sponsors should be subscribed if there is something to sponsor - like a debdiff or a patch. 
<xnox> if there is branch merge proposal, it's already subscribed. 
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, its a debdiff
 * TheLordOfTime can't use bzr effectively to save his life, so... :P
<xnox> subscribe ubuntu-sponsors if the next step ;-)
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, done.   :P
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, do they get a notification that they've been subscribed? 
<TheLordOfTime> or do I have to say something after subscribing them? 
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: better, we have a queue: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<TheLordOfTime> cool
<xnox> and we have schedule of daily patch pilots reviewing and uploading patches
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, by priority or just by whatever's at the top of the list? 
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, because we've got a case of a Universe package not working out of the box due to a faulty default config file. 
<TheLordOfTime> (in Raring)
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: bug number? 
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1132678
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1132678 in nginx (Ubuntu) "nginx: [emerg] bind() to [::]:80 failed (98: Address already in use)" [High,Fix committed]
<TheLordOfTime> easy workaround (add something on a line)
<TheLordOfTime> that "Fix Committed" was done by the debian maintainers
<TheLordOfTime> not but it throws an "emerg" and then doesn't run correctly
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, TBPH i'd like to get this in ASAP, but if there's higher priority stuff then i'll be as patient as I can be with the emails about it. 
<TheLordOfTime> bleh, random words on my keyboard, time to check my OS again for bugs... >.>
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Standard. 
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK, you were ninja'd by xnox :P
<TheLordOfTime> but *shrugs*
<ScottK> I saw, but I still like to answer the questions directly asked of me. 
<TheLordOfTime> I'll leave this be, apparently my keyboard's being stupid :P
 * xnox checks the pilot schedule, damn it's me again actually. 
<ESphynx> xnox: Should I be assigning my Ubuntu FFe bug to ubuntu-sponsor as well? :)  Also should I be bugging someone to assign it to Raring? :) 
<xnox> ESphynx: what FFe bug?! 
<ESphynx> xnox: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecere-sdk/+bug/1153763 this one =)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1153763 in ecere-sdk (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update to Ecere SDK 0.44.04 for 64 bit support" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> ESphynx: there is no need for FFe, "converted" to a sync request. 
<ESphynx> xnox: convoluted?  :P
<ESphynx> Does that mean it's more likely to be fixed for Raring or less likely? :) 
<ESphynx> thanks for triaging :P
<ScottK> xnox: You don't think that needs an FFe?   Seems to me like it has new features (BTW, needs sponsoring in Debian too before it can be sync'ed)
<ESphynx> all depends on what you can 'features' really, to me that's a very vague term :P
<ESphynx> at any rate I'd really appreciate if it could make it into Raring, as I've invested a great number of overtime hours to the detriment of my health to get this ready =)
<ESphynx> but yeah, the main new 'feature' is 64 bit support... that is really a bug fix if you think about it, but it required fixing the whole SDK including the compiler to support it :)
<ScottK> Feature includes major invasive changes, so it counts. 
<ScottK> xnox: If you sponsor in Debian, I'll approve the FFe. 
<ESphynx> sounds like a deal :) many thanks to both of you ;)
<xnox> ScottK: ok.  but i do need to read the diff & build it for debian & test, it's not a quick to review & sponsor package =))))
<ESphynx> xnox: a milestone ahead is 'haste' which will focus on speeding up the compiler, hopefully we'll go from 23 minute build to less :P
<ScottK> xnox: I have not given it a review.   If you sponsor, you're responsible (as usual in Debian). 
<ESphynx> xnox: Sorry to have landed on you :(
<ESphynx> xnox: I missed 2 lintian warnings overrides, sorry
<xnox> not your fault, I do end up sucked into weird packages all the time.  I guess it's karma =)
<dholbach> good morning
<freeflying> are we still using revu for package review/sponsorship seeking? 
<freeflying> or there is similar website
<tumbleweed> there's also mentors.debian.net (and we prefer new packages to be added to Debian, not Ubuntu)
<tumbleweed> and for changes to packages already in the archive, just stick a debdiff in a LP bug
<freeflying> tumbleweed: what about a new upstream release in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> freeflying: debdiff restricted to the debian directory? 
<tumbleweed> or a bzr merge proposal
<freeflying> tumbleweed: not restricted to debian dir
<tumbleweed> freeflying: ? 
<freeflying> tumbleweed: like upstream has a new release, and maintainer has it packaged, which is the best workflow for him to seek for sponsoring upload
<tumbleweed> I suggested two: a debdiff filtered on /debian/ or a bzr merge proposal
<tumbleweed> both are fine
<tumbleweed> also, don't forget we are past feature freeze, so getting new releases in is hard
<freeflying> tumbleweed: indeed
 * xnox ponders to ship a package emacs-os, it will override and replace .desktop files, for example gnome-calculator.desktop Exec=emacs --eval '(calc)' and so on. 
<ogra_`> will it overrride the kernel ? 
<jtaylor> noooooo
<jtaylor> pbuilder-dist does not take --save-after-login? 
<jtaylor> just lost 4 hour scipy compilation I wanted to reuse
<tumbleweed> it takes arbitrary arguments
<tumbleweed> (IIRC)
<jtaylor> apparently not save-after-login
<jtaylor> in raring
<jtaylor> it does accept bindmounts
<jtaylor> (but not bindmount)
<tumbleweed> no, seriously, arguments are passed through unmodified
<jtaylor> why doesn't it work then? 
<jtaylor> also does it really pass through? 
<tumbleweed> that's for you to find out :)
<tumbleweed> yes
<jtaylor> it explicitly rejects bindmount
<jtaylor> whereas save-after-loginis just silently ignored
 * tumbleweed can't see any code to reject bindmount
<jtaylor> so at least something is inconsistent
<tumbleweed> --debug-echo is your friend btw
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> it only drops save-after-login with powerpc
<jtaylor> not amd64
<tumbleweed> lol
<jtaylor> kind of sucks as its more useful with ppc :/
<jtaylor> oh no I just overlooked it
<jtaylor> so its a pbuilder issue
<tumbleweed> \o/
<tumbleweed> seriously? 
<jtaylor> an ordering issue
<tumbleweed> ah
<jtaylor> pbuilder-dist puts it to the end of the line
<jtaylor> putting it behind the --login works
<tumbleweed> if the ordering matters, we can force the right ordering
<jtaylor> hm no
<jtaylor> its not related to ordering
<jtaylor> its qemu :/
<jtaylor> if I trigger a unsupported ioctl in the chroot
<jtaylor> the chroot is not stored
<jtaylor> unfortunately triggering it is easy, just press Â°c
<jtaylor> ^C
<tumbleweed> hehe
<tumbleweed> how does pbuilder know that you triggered an unsupported ioctl? 
<tumbleweed> does it get a signal? 
<jtaylor> I don't think pbuilder handles that
<tumbleweed> pbuilder does the storing of the chroot when you are done with it
<jtaylor> yes I wonder how the ioctl could mess that up
<jtaylor> maybe not the chroot shell gets the ^C but pbuilder itself
<jtaylor> so pbuilder aborts? 
<tumbleweed> dunno.  strace/gdb? 
<tumbleweed> the one odtity with qemu-user-static chroots is that you can't have setuid binaries, but I can't see how that's relevant here
<tumbleweed> s/one/usual/
<jtaylor> pbuilder is a shells script, not so nice for gdb
<jtaylor> on the other hand I can just put echos in
<jtaylor> yes it gets the signal from the chroot
<jtaylor> it traps that so it cleans up after itself
<jtaylor> but it does not handle save-after-login anymore
<tumbleweed> rigth
<tumbleweed> schroot++
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-13
<Logan_> Does a package that previously FTBFSed in Ubuntu require an FFE, if the package wasn't previously published in Raring due to the FTBFS?  The new Debian version builds properly, and there is a sync request for it. 
<micahg> Logan_: If it's got new features, yes
<Logan_> Well, I mean, the binary wasn't published in Raring previously due to the FTBFS. 
<micahg> Logan_: which package? 
<Logan_> And the only fix in Debian is for the FTBFS, so now the binary would be published. 
<Logan_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libio-async-loop-glib-perl/+bug/1154211
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1154211 in libio-async-loop-glib-perl (Ubuntu) "Sync libio-async-loop-glib-perl 0.20-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<Logan_> I tested the Debian version in my amd64 pbuilder, and it didn't FTBFS. 
<micahg> ah, it's grandfathered into the release pocket, please sync to raring + SRU to quantal if it works
<Logan_> So no FFE is required? 
<micahg> no, it's just fixing something broke ATM
<Logan_> kk
<micahg> generally binary new requires FFe, but that's when you're adding/restructuring
 * micahg is trying in a 32 bit chroot for kicks
<micahg> Logan_: do you have 32 bit chroots? 
<Logan_> Just amd64 pbuilder. 
<Logan_> Tends to be a good indicator, though. 
<micahg> yeah, catches most things
<Logan_> If it's a complex package, I usually push it to my PPA to see if it works on i386, etc. 
<micahg> was fine in 32 bit raring FWIW
<Logan_> synced
<micahg> so, if you feel like SRUing, that would be great
<micahg> hrm, seems like the build  chroots are stale, it's taking over a minute on i386 just to update the chroot
<Logan_> I don't think I should SRU, as I don't have a quantal pbuilder
<micahg> seems to build fine there (I don't have -updates enabled in my chroot though)
<micahg> Logan_: I'd be happy to upload if you'll do the paperwork :)
<Logan_> oh lord :P
<Logan_> I actually have to be AFK for a bit, so I'll probably deal with it later or tomorrow, unless you want to handle the paperwork ;)
<micahg> Logan_: nah, I'm about to run off myself
<xnox> Logan_: there will be about 150 more uploads of no code change, just email change from the same maintainer.  Watch out, we generally don't merge if there are no code changes. 
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> 'morning :)
<mdeslaur> ScottK: think you could pull the trigger on LP: #1154581 please? 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1154581 in Lucid Backports "Please backport puppet 2.7.1-1ubuntu3.8 (main) from oneiric-updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154581
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Uploaded. 
<mdeslaur> ScottK: awesome, thanks! 
<ScottK> mdeslaur: It got rejected.   Sent you mail. 
<mdeslaur> ScottK: oh, how odd...ok, let me upload, one sec
<ScottK> Thanks.   Just give me a ping when it's done. 
<mdeslaur> ScottK: uploaded
 * ScottK looks. 
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Accepted. 
<mdeslaur> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome. 
<ESphynx> good morning ;)
<evck> Hi, I'm interested in packaging something, and I don't believe it's in Universe.  It's the gcc-arm-none-eabi toolchain (https://answers.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded).  I'm not sure if it should be part of the gcc-defaults-armel-cross package, which includes the toolchain for Linux (gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi) targets, or a new package.  Any advice? 
<ScottK> infinity: ^^^ You might know ...
<Laney> or hrw
<infinity> evck: It could potentially be built from the current cross packages, yes.   Patches welcome. 
<evck> infinity: So this would be a patch to the gcc-defaults-armel-cross package that builds gcc-arm-none-eabi in addition to gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi? 
<infinity> evck: That would seem like a sane way to go, if gcc-arm-none can be built from our current GCC sources. 
<infinity> evck: Alternately, you could do another source package that just builds gcc-arm-none (again, pulling in gcc-4.7-source, ideally), but if it needs a bootstrap to get there, you may end up duplicating a lot of what the other cross source does. 
 * infinity isn't particularly familiar with how to build the -none- targets, as he doesn't do any bare-metal/embedded work. 
<evck> infinity: Ok, I have a bit to learn about the packaging process, but I'll take a look into it. 
<infinity> evck: Well, a good first step isn't packaging-related at all, but confirming that you can actually build gcc-arm-none-eabi from the gcc-4.7-source sources. 
<infinity> evck: ie: if this requires an patching from a source other than upstream GCC or the Linaro branch, we'd need to sort that out. 
<infinity> s/an/any/
<infinity> evck: If it's just a matter of passing some configure flags and bundling up the results, it's likely fairly trivial to bolt than on to the current cross builds as another pass. 
 * infinity hand waves enough to appear to be flailing. 
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-14
<theandromedan> What does one need to do to create a package of non-open source software that will be added to the universe or mulitverse repositories? 
<micahg> theandromedan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<theandromedan> I read that watched the videos. 
<theandromedan> But there are some things I don't know. 
<theandromedan> Like can you build a package without a Source section? 
<theandromedan> Do I need to be a member of MOTU to have a package added? 
<theandromedan> Remember this is a closed source software. 
<theandromedan> The only reason I am looking into this is that a customer asked for my to add it as a package to Ubuntu.  So I am looking into it. 
<theandromedan> It is a Java-based program. 
<theandromedan> So it will run under Ubuntu. 
<micahg> theandromedan: multiverse or you can talk to Canonical about including in the partner repo
<micahg> theandromedan: as long as it's freely redistributable, you can put it in multiverse or Debian/non-free
<theandromedan> There is a Debian/non-free? 
<theandromedan> According to the Wiki anything in the Debian needs to be open source. 
<micahg> yes, it's not "officially" part of Debian, but it's usually mirrored
<theandromedan> Ah. 
<micahg> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-non-free
<theandromedan> Can I create Debian package using Ubuntu? 
<micahg> sure
<theandromedan> Is there an IRC channel for helping with Debian package creation? 
<theandromedan> Does Ubuntu support the installation of Debian packages? 
<micahg> #ubuntu-packaging for generic help or here + #debian-mentors on OFTC for stuff that is targeted to the Ubuntu archive (the Debian channel is only for stuff going through Debian AIUI)
<theandromedan> ok
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> man, tvtime is heavily ubuntu patched
<tumbleweed> yeah, I wanted to comment on that
<tumbleweed> this stuff belongs upstream
<Laney> seems dead
<Laney> I'm sure I remember suggesting he takes over / forks before
<tumbleweed> yeah, sounds like it's needed
 * Laney does so again
<dholbach> tumbleweed, Laney: tvtime and gnomeradio AFAIK - our contributor is in touch with the debian maintainer to figure out what the future might be - I suggested forking before already
<Laney> ah, gnomeradio rings a bell
<Laney> is that the same guy? 
<dholbach> yes IIRC
<Laney> yeah, 'tis
<Laney> good, well I'm glad a few of us are on the same page
<xnox> Laney: now that google reader is going away i'm potentially switching to gwene.org to do rss archiving, and reading them via nntp with Gnus or with Thunderbird (evaluating)
<Laney> gwene? 
<Laney> never 'eard of it
<tumbleweed> RSS -> NNTP.  sounds like the future
<xnox> Laney: it's what gmane is to mailing lists: archival + interface to read them over nntp/web/blog-like/rss interfaces. 
 * xnox finds it funny how it offers _full_ archive over rss
<Laney> let me know how you get on
<Laney> I was pondering looking for a good native client
 * tumbleweed is happy with newsblur (non-native)
<Laney> yeah, android app would be good
 * tumbleweed can't handle using machines without full-size keyboards for anything significant
<tumbleweed> I have a newsblur client on my phone, but never ues it
<Laney> keyboard for reading? 
<tumbleweed> :P
<tumbleweed> larger screen for reading
<tumbleweed> and I skim a lot, so yes, keyboard helps
<Laney> 'n' is good, but I can also get used to swiping to skip
<Laney> nexus 7 is pretty good for it IME
<highvoltage> newsblur does look pretty nice indeed. 
<Laney> mmm
<xnox> "Thanks for all the supportive tweets and emails today.  NewsBlur has experienced 15x its normal daily traffic in only 1/4 of a day." 
<xnox> I guess they need to scale a little, it's a bit slow at the moment. 
<aboudreault> any debian packager that knows well cmake here? 
<ScottK> aboudreault: It's better just to ask your question. 
<aboudreault> kk
<aboudreault> I'm creating a package with a cmake build system.  I would like to preserve the current natural behavior of CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr (or /usr/local).  However, I need a way to place some files in /etc/xxx
<aboudreault> using DESTINATION /etc/xxx is not an option since I need things to be in debian/tmp/etc/
<aboudreault> any hint? 
<aboudreault> maybe cmake shouldn't do anything with /etc .. will put that in prefix/share and copy manually I think. 
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-15
<sharms> I have a very small fix for gnome-system-monitor, so it supports CTRL-Q if someone could take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/1155385
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1155385 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) "Quit accelerator key missing" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> sharms: that looks like the sort of thing that should be pushed upstream and accepted there before patching
<sharms> micahg: It is already upstream, but getting it in before 13.04 is released sounds like a good idea
<sharms> ie 12.10 supported CTRL-Q, and nearly all apps do in 13.04 that I use atleast
<micahg> sharms: so, it's a regression over 12.10? 
<micahg> and, you're saying it's already upstream, do you have a link to the cgit commit? 
<micahg> the upstream bug shows as open still
<aboudreault> looks like something is missing in my rules: dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<aboudreault> good, fixed. 
<sharms> micahg: If I can get it accepted before release we can just pull the newer upstream version in, but if I can't it doesn't make a ton of sense not to put it in 13.04, as I do believe it's a regression
<micahg> sharms: the ctrl+q functionality was in 12.10? 
<micahg> sharms: I'm just saying it should be committed upstream, not necessarily released
<sharms> micahg: yes I can confirm CTRL-Q works as expected and shows up in the menu as expected in 12.10
<micahg> the upstream bug doesn't say anything about regression either, that might make it be accepted faster
<micahg> or at least looked at
<micahg> I'll mark up our bug based on your feedback
<sharms> ok, I am going to send an email to the maintainer to explain and see if I can get them to take a look
<dholbach> good morning
<xnox> friday is a day when one finds out about qt4-x11 build-depending on libgtk2.0-dev and is not surprised and finds it acceptable. 
<micahg> xnox: it's not unreasonable if you read the changelog either :)  http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/q/qt4-x11/current/changelog#version4.5.0_rc1-1
 * xnox was starring at an app and thinking why is it using gtk2 theme and it hit me. 
<xnox> it was just a confirmation really ;-)
<roaksoax>  /win 13
<ESphynx> xnox:  qt4-x11 build-depending on libgtk2.0-dev -- This is 'exactly' why the Linux world needs to adopt Ecere :P
<ESphynx> that's the cherry on top of the dependency nightmare of the bulky GUI toolkits ;)
<ESphynx> theme support... GUI toolkits looking 'native'... meh ;)
<jtaylor> is there hidden trick to get a raw diff from code.google? 
<jtaylor> the github way of doing it does not work :/
<ScottK> Someone ought to merge lighttpd from Debian.   New security upload needs merge. 
<jtaylor> ScottK: can we get this fix for pyqt in raring?  http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2013-March/032457.html
<jtaylor> breaks ipython qtconsole :/
<ScottK> jtaylor: If you can figure out which commit it is ....
<ScottK> I looked at the next snapshot after he said he was going to fix it and couldn't find anything that made sense. 
<jtaylor> you already know about it? 
<ScottK> Yeah, I just couldn't figure the fix. 
<jtaylor> hm
<ScottK> I didn't know it broke anything anyone cared about though. 
<ScottK> I'm subscribed to the list. 
<jtaylor> it also breaks ninja ide
<ScottK> You could always write the list and ask for the patch. 
<jtaylor> yes I wanted to do that
<ScottK> ipython and ninjas to particularly move my personal caring needle, so please go for it. 
<jtaylor> does sip have a vcs? 
<ScottK> It does, but I don't know if it's public. 
<ScottK> The developer is not particularly into collaboration. 
<jtaylor> also no archived snapshots :/
<jtaylor> someone should check the site every day and put the snapshot on github ._.
 * jtaylor hates upstreams with no vcs
<ScottK> jtaylor: I still have the snapshot.   Want it? 
<jtaylor> yes
<ScottK> jtaylor: http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/PyQt-x11-gpl-4.9.5.tar.gz
<ScottK> Wait. 
<ScottK> That's wrong. 
<ScottK> jtaylor: http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/sip-4.14.5-snapshot-c65a525a0a17.tar.gz
 * ScottK should really clean that out. 
<jtaylor> according to the changelog the fix is in pyqt
<ScottK> Hmmm. 
<jtaylor> this should be it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617940/
<jtaylor> of course its generated code :/
<ScottK> OK.   I'm thinking of a different issue then. 
<ScottK> Feel free to fix. 
 * ScottK didn't get around to uploading to Debian yet anyway. 
<jtaylor> I know nothing about pyqt and sip
<jtaylor> does the package regenerate the sip files? 
<ScottK> Probably not. 
<jtaylor> hmpf to slow with resizing my partition ._.
<jtaylor> did not seem to help
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-16
<ScottK> Then I'd write the list.   Phil is generally helpful. 
<jtaylor> wrote a mail
<jtaylor> I'm a bit surprised pyqt 4.10 spreads so fast
<jtaylor> there are bugs popping up everywhere
<jtaylor> (many version string related)
<jtaylor> but its only released since two weeks :O
<jtaylor> its not really a package you tend to follow upstream, you usually use what the distributions provides
<ScottK> Not if you're on Windows or Mac. 
<TheLordOfTime> this is a question i have.   Can I create a 'stable' and 'testing' (Debian) pbuilder environment within Ubuntu? 
<TheLordOfTime> purely curious, because this would allow me to do cross-distro packaging testing. 
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: Yes. 
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  cool, that should make things easier when i'm having to build-test bugfixed packages across ubuntu releases as well as in Debian.   :)
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> why did tcl get multiarched after ffe without fixing its rdepends? :/ 
<jtaylor> ok the thing I'm loking at now (scilab) failed before too, maybe it was overlooked)
<haikong> hi,i am new here
<jtaylor> hi
<haikong> i just use ubuntu for half a year. Someone can show me how to establish  wifi to share with my friends? 
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: presumably that still has to happen.  I assume you saw the discussion in -devel a day or two ago
<tumbleweed> ah, you did
<jtaylor> no I didn't
<jtaylor> hm why a would i386 build not get a rpath to libjvm.so but amd64 does
<jtaylor> ah it uses uname -m which does not work in a chroot
<jtaylor> whats the best way to get 64 or 32 bit that does not use dpkg-architecture? 
<tumbleweed> if uname -m doesn't work, then you probably aren't doing your chroot properly.  that's what linux32/setarch is for
<jtaylor> hm how do I do that with pbuilder? 
<tumbleweed> (precise-i386)stefanor@purcell:/$ uname -m
<tumbleweed> i686
<tumbleweed> ah, pbuilder documentation seems to say run "linux32 pbuilder ..."
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> I'm sure to forget it if I dont have it my rc :/
<tumbleweed> how about running linux32 inside the chroot?  it lets you specify a wrapper, doesn' tit? 
<jtaylor> ok so I think I fixed scilab
<jtaylor> but thing of the port is ugly but only required for matlab 4 (from 1994)
<jtaylor> doing it properly probably needs change of api so should be done by upstream
<jtaylor> acceptable for raring for now I think
<tumbleweed> yay? 
<foxx> question, does anyone else feel that bugs.launchpad.net is really unusable, in comparison with something like github?  obviously, they have two very different end goals, but launchpad feels very messy imho
<hyperair> foxx: i don't.  in fact, i feel github issues are really messy and unusable. 
<hyperair> for one, it doesn't have any proper support for setting bug severities -- it only has tags. 
<hyperair> what exactly is unusable about bugs.launchpad.net anyway? 
<foxx> that's a good point.. the lack of in-depth issue tracking / severities.  but tags can be used to some extent to replace that.. (obviously in a VERY basic format.. no where near suitable for any larger scale project)
<maxb> Launchpad is aimed at the complexities and nuances of projects as complicated as a whole Linux distribution.  Github's issue tracker..... isn't, and it really shows
<foxx> i think the issues page on github is great for small one off projects.. anything else larger, i persnally use JIRA
<hyperair> JIRA actually looks pretty okay
<hyperair> i haven't used it personally though.  only poked the REST api
<foxx> its great, but managing it is almost a full time job in itself
<foxx> very quickly becomes a monster etc
<hyperair> ugh. 
<hyperair> how about something like redmine? 
<foxx> hyperair: to answer your question tho, i found just browsing launchpad troublesome.. there's a *lot* of links all over the place, no consistent font sizes / layout etc
<hyperair> no consistent font sizes?  where? 
<foxx> imo, the feature set is brilliant, but the design lets it down.. at least for me anyway
<hyperair> it looks consistent to me
<foxx> font sizes, take the comments discussion for example
<foxx> looking at a large convo on there is a strain on the eyes
<hyperair> umm, that's just normal monospaced font. 
<hyperair> any programmer ought to be used to monospaced font by now. 
<foxx> yeah, but in comparison with the discussion style used on github.. id say github one looks nicer
<hyperair> that's rather subjective. 
<foxx> of course.. give me sublime and a monospaced font, and ill rewrite the world and make it pretty at the same time lol.  but thats one page i personally feel could do with a nicer design
<hyperair> i like plain text. 
<foxx> yeah, i think you're right tbh, personal preference etc
<hyperair> the difference between launchpad's bug comments and github's is the markdown support
<hyperair> which leads to the difference between text and html mail
<foxx> heh, well how about this for a contradiction.. i absolutely hate html mail
<hyperair> but you like non-monospaced, formatted text. 
<hyperair> hmm. 
<hyperair> very weird
<hyperair> here's a question -- do you have the ubuntu set of fonts installed? 
<foxx> lol, yes my mom used to say that to me a lot ;P
<foxx> totally honest, i didnt even know ubuntu had its own set of fonts :/
<hyperair> there's Ubuntu and Ubuntu Mono
<foxx> and shamefully, i use windows
<hyperair> Ubuntu is the variable-width, sans-serif one. 
<hyperair> Ubuntu Mono is the monospaced one
<ScottK> foxx: I think most developers read LP bugs via mail anyway, so the web presentation doesn't matter much. 
<hyperair> and they're both pretty beautiful
<foxx> installing now
<ScottK> Also, there's #launchpad where this is probably more on topic. 
<foxx> ScottK: ah, didnt realise they had their own channel.  ty :)
<foxx> well ill be damned
<foxx> hyperair: that actually looks a lot better with that font
<foxx> still not sure about the 10px fonts at the top, but a much better improvement.  ty
<hyperair> :)
<hyperair> i use Ubuntu Mono for coding. 
<foxx> i use consolas, as it was the only decent mono windows font
<hyperair> what i really like is that Ubuntu Mono is slightly narrower than the other monospace fonts, so i can fit 80 chars in width into two panes side by side. 
<foxx> just tried ubuntu mono on sublime for windows... it doesnt play nicely sadly.. too much padding at top and bottom
<hyperair> plus a bit more for line numbers, pane separator, and the 80th column marker line
<hyperair> hmm pity. 
<foxx> i assume its not meant to look like this; http://i.imgur.com/BYYOqXU.png?1
<foxx> guess that'll serve me right for using windows lol
<foxx> does anyone know of any reason why dput/mini-dinstall would show a message about not having a source override entry?  the package seems to have uploaded correctly, but that message has made me curious.  here is the log http://pastebin.com/sgjC4Avm .  there was also some discussion in here about it before here; http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/16/%23ubuntu-motu.html .  apparently it should be
<foxx> quiet about it unless there is a problem.. but im not sure what the problem is :X
<maxb> foxx: overrides are data used by the archive admins of a distribution to control and organize the archive.  It's probably a bit silly for *mini*-dinstall to even be trying to implement them.  Personally I prefer reprepro for my server-side repository management, so I don't use mini-dinstall any more. 
<foxx> hmm, i had a shot at using reprepro, but it wasn't able to handle multiple package versions, which was a no go for me.. can i ask why you chose reprepro? 
<ESphynx> xnox: ping
<ESphynx> I'd have some fixes if you haven't reviewed anything yet =)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-03-17
<micahg> cjohnston: if you want to verify Bug #1153822 , I'd be happy to upload
<ubottu> bug 1153822 in Quantal Backports "Please backport apt-mirror 0.4.9-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153822
<micahg> Laney: hipmunk doesn't work with ghc 7.6.2, mind if I just file a removal request?   (even with the new 5.2.0.10 and a hacked cabal for the deps in 7.6.2)
<Laney> micahg: yes, I do mind.  In general I want to fix things if possible rather than remove them, and hipmunk is a rather simple case
<Laney> the llvms might be a more interesting one to look at
<cjohnston> micahg: bug #1153822 is confirmed.. /me needs a better way to follow up with bugs he filed.. heh.. I'd done the work the next day, just never remembered to go back.. I guess I could have assigned it to myself. 
<ubottu> bug 1153822 in Quantal Backports "Please backport apt-mirror 0.4.9-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153822
<micahg> cjohnston: well, marking the stuff off in the description is what I meant
<micahg> Laney: that's why I asked :), there are ghc llvms? 
<cjohnston> micahg: yup.. I was just saying i need a way to remember to follow up on that stuff
<Laney> micahg: haskell-llvm-*
<Laney> s/-\*/\*/
<micahg> hrm, ok
<Laney> I think needs some adjustment to work with whatever llvm version we have atm
<Laney> I seem to recall doing that before, maybe
<micahg> ok, I won't get a chance to look until later this week though, already have a pile of stuff to do today
<Laney> sure
<Laney> I think if you ignore stuff-to-be-removed the situation is quite tractable
<micahg> ok
<jtaylor> ScottK: is the pyqt list moderated?  my mail does not seem to have arrived yet :/
<ScottK> No. 
<jtaylor> strange
<ScottK> Are you sure you sent from the address you're subscribed from? 
<jtaylor> I'm not subscribed
<ScottK> It's probably moderated then. 
<Rhonda> A neighbour of mine would like to install 10.04 onto a system that is only capable of CD images, not DVD.   And he told me that the only images he found were too big for his CDs to record to? 
<Rhonda> erm, 12.04 of course
<jtaylor> Rhonda: network install is an option
<jtaylor> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/12.04/
<TheLordOfTime> what, they can't USB boot? 
<TheLordOfTime> is the system that old?   (just saying)
<Rhonda> No, usb boot not possible, and strangely, he said that network install would take ages. 
<Rhonda> But now that I looked, the images are all below 700 megs, so I'm uncertain what his actual issue was. :) 
<jtaylor> I doubt 12.04 will run good on such a machine
<TheLordOfTime> agreed with jtaylor
<TheLordOfTime> if the system is as it is described, Ubuntu 12.04 probably won't run well. 
<TheLordOfTime> *maybe* Lubuntu will, but...
<TheLordOfTime> that's still a "maybe"
<Rhonda> usb boot isn't supported everywhere, and a lot of systems might run properly with 12.04 even if they don't have usb boot. 
<TheLordOfTime> that wasn't our point? 
<Rhonda> Then I have no clue what your point was. 
<Rhonda> Because from what you wrote your point clearly was "no usb boot?  is it that old?" 
<TheLordOfTime> that was MY statement
<TheLordOfTime> not jtaylor's
<Rhonda> At least that's what I perceived. 
<TheLordOfTime> fine, so everyone in the ubuntu place is calling me out on my mis-speaks. 
 * TheLordOfTime walks off to bugs triaging, which doesn't require as much interaction with people. 
<Rhonda> "on such machine", what's that then?   I can just guess he also responded to your "no usb boot, that old" statement, I don't see any other reference to "on such a machine" that would make sense to me? 
<jtaylor> what kind of a machine is it? 
<Rhonda> All I know is that it can't usb boot, and that it has a cd drive, not a dvd one. 
<Unit193> I've noted that BIOS upgrades can give you the USB booting support, at times.   Lubuntu is more lightweight, but if you go mini+openbox, it's lighter.   AntiX and slitaz are really lightweight, though. 
<Rhonda> â¦ which to me isn't much information for guessing whether 12.04 would run properly or not. :) 
<Unit193> You can use plop to boot of a USB drive by jumping off CD. 
<jtaylor> no, but it is a good clue
<jtaylor> the last machine I had that couldn't boot usb is about 10 years old
<jtaylor> I wouldn't want to run 12.04 on uit, it was already strugling with 08.04
<Rhonda> I wasn't able to get usb boot working on my thinkpad E525. 
<Rhonda> Given the troubles with usb boot that I had all around, I don't consider usb boot any reasonable clue. :) 
<Unit193> 11/01/2004 computer didn't support it until I flashed the BIOS. 
<Rhonda> I doubt that he was speaking about a 10 year old machine. 
<Rhonda> But thanks for the responses anyway. 
 * ScottK has computers running 12.04 that don't support USB boot that run it fine. 
#ubuntu-motu 2014-03-10
<dholbach> good morning
<jochensp> Hi, I've fixed a small flaw in one of my Debian packages, would it still be possible to get it into Ubuntu trusty (universe)? 
<Noskcaj> jochensp, link plz
<jochensp> Noskcaj: https://packages.debian.org/source/jessie/openni
<Noskcaj> jochensp, just run "requestsync  openni".  It's not a big change so, it shouldn't need an FFe
<jochensp> Noskcaj: great, thanks :)
<Logan_> ayyo xnox
<Logan_> can you remove block-proposed from motion? 
<xnox> Logan_: hola!  =)
<xnox> Logan_: let me check. 
<Logan_> just synced
<Logan_> builds properly, etc. 
<xnox> Logan_: i don't see it blocked by tag. 
<xnox> Logan_: as per http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#motion it's not blocked, just waiting to build etc. 
<Logan_> ok cool
#ubuntu-motu 2014-03-12
<dakira> Hi.  I'm looking for help to make a PPA with a working version of libimobiledevice for trusty.  My progress so far: I pulled the current git master (1.1.6) and used to debian/* from libimobiledevice 1.1.5 in trusty.  I ran debuild -S -sd for the sourcepackage and tried to build packages with pbuilder. 
<dakira> compilation works fine but before the packages are built i get "dh_makeshlibs: dpkg-gensymbols [...] -c4 returned exit code 1
<dakira> should I manially generate a new symbols file and use that or is it okay to set something like -c0 for dpkg-gensymbols? 
<dakira> is this the right place to ask packaging questions? 
#ubuntu-motu 2014-03-13
<marcoceppi> Hi everyone, I'm following the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Going_through_MOTU and have joined the channel!  I have to packages, both python modules, that I've maintained over the last 6 months in a ppa that I wish to get in to universe for trusty
<marcoceppi> I realize it's pretty late, but they're somwhat important for juju charm development so having them in trusty for the lts would be quite beneficial
<TheMuso> marcoceppi: Ok, have a read as well of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess. 
<marcoceppi> TheMuso: cool, I'll get cracking on this process as well
<TheMuso> marcoceppi: Great.  I won't be able to do anything as a sponsor for now, until the freeze exception is granted, and that likely won't happen during my patch pilot duty time today.  If it does, I'll have a look of course. 
<marcoceppi> TheMuso: so, I'll put the latest charm-tools, charmworldlib and amulet in to the ppa, file a bug for each, charmworldlib and amulet for acceptance by an MOTU, then one for charm-tools ffe?  or do I need an FFE for all three? 
<TheMuso> marcoceppi: You probably need an FFE for all, since they are considered new upstream releases, but particularly for the new package since it is not in the archive yet. 
<marcoceppi> TheMuso: ack, I'll open an FFE for all three then
<TheMuso> marcoceppi: Thank you. 
<marcoceppi> TheMuso: so,the FFE guide says I should still have a MOTU review the package
<marcoceppi> for the two "new" packages
<TheMuso> marcoceppi: As far as I understand things, there is no point reviewing the package unless it has been given an exception, although I haven't read the document myself in a while, so I may have it wrong. 
<marcoceppi> TheMuso: that makes sense, the doc says otherwise but I'll wait for ubuntu-release to get back to me
<TheMuso> The way I read that, its not explicit in saying the package needs to be reviewed first, it just says to follow the new packages process. 
#ubuntu-motu 2014-03-14
<dholbach> good morning
<dkessel> guten morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi dkessel
<j_f-f> moin
<ESphynx> hey guys are you going to upgrde freetype for the LTS because there's a nasty double free in the current Trusty version
<rbasak> ESphynx: can you be more specific, please?  Is there a bug for this?  Which LTS, which version, what patch or upstream commit, etc. 
<ESphynx> rbasak : talking about Trusty, if there's not there should be :)
<ESphynx> and latest upstream freetype fixes the problem
<ESphynx> 2.5.3 vs 2.5.2 which is currently in Trusty
<rbasak> ESphynx: looks like 2.5.3 isn't in Debian either.  It can be picked up at this stage, but that's up to an Ubuntu developer familiar with the package.  Looks like slangasek might be your man as he's a DM for the package as well. 
<rbasak> ESphynx: but if you want it fixed, then you should file a bug to track that if there isn't one already. 
<slangasek> ugh freetype
<ESphynx> what should the bug be filed again? 
<ESphynx> against*
<ESphynx> slangasek: yeah 2.5.2 is quite horrible
<ESphynx> very nasty double free. 
<ESphynx> on deleting a face
<slangasek> the security bugs are an issue, yes; but security bugs are fixed by backporting patches, not by taking new upstream versions (*especially* not new upstream versions of freetype, which are a grab bag of regressions and bugfixes)
<slangasek> ESphynx: is this the same as the security bug that has a CVE open for it (Debian bug #741299)? 
<ubottu> Debian bug 741299 in src:freetype "freetype: CVE-2014-2240, CVE-2014-2241: stack OOB read/write, DoS" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/741299
<ESphynx> no I dont think so
<ESphynx> slangasek: http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?40997  -- this is the one I was referring to
<ESphynx> hmm sorry, this makes it look like it's not a free type bug :P
<ESphynx> unrelated disregard :(
<ESphynx> what I know is that 2.5.2 was crashing consistently and Valgrind complaining and after an update to 2.5.3 the problem was gone, but look through the commits diffs still have me puzzled as to why.  I'll look into it a bit later today :)
<slangasek> ESphynx: it's reported to be fixed in freetype, and from the description I'd say it is a freetype bug
<ESphynx> slangasek: Yeah my problem had to do with stream, but I got it on Linux not Windows...
<jtaylor> gr missed the uds again oO
#ubuntu-motu 2014-03-15
<ESphynx> hey guys, how could characters get mixed up when my app uses X input contexts ? ( XIC) /
<ESphynx> so what's the default input method on Trusty?  it was doing realy annoying things... I've selected 'xim' specifically in my .inputrc and things are fine again. 
<ESphynx> OK 'ibus' seems to be the default input method and is buggy. 
<ESphynx> See issue https://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1697
<ESphynx> Also im-config has got like a 20 pixels wide dialog to select from radio buttons :P
<ESphynx> 20 pixels high* sorry
#ubuntu-motu 2015-03-09
<dholbach> good morning
<reversiblean> where/how do I find packages that need upgradation? 
<jpds> upgradation. 
<jpds> reversiblean: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<reversiblean> jpds: no i've checking out the motu developer guide.. I'd like to upgrade this: https://launchpad.net/~kilian/+archive/ubuntu/f.lux from the orginal source https://github.com/Kilian/f.lux-indicator-applet
<reversiblean> the packagage is not available for utopic either.  so i'd like to build one
<reversiblean> can anyone help me to build the package froum source? 
<jrwren> reversiblean: it might be as easy as apt-get source && dpkg-buildpackage
<reversiblean> jrwren: apt-get source won't work as there's no source or package available since utopic
<jrwren> reversiblean: you *could* add utopic source repo, fetch source, remove source repo.  Or you could manually get the source from ppa
<reversiblean> jrwren: will i be able to upgrade it from the upstream repo then? 
<jrwren> reversiblean: that depends.  maybe just copy over?  or do a clean checkout and copy the debian dir into that clean checkout? 
<reversiblean> jrwren: upstream has a debian folder aswell
<jrwren> reversiblean: oh, then just checkout upstream and run dpkg-buildpackage :)
<reversiblean> jrwren: dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no upstream tarball found at ../fluxgui_1.1.8.orig.tar.{bz2,gz,lzma,xz}
<reversiblean> jrwren: i've created that tarball
<jrwren> reversiblean: are you sure the name matches exactly?   _ not - ? 
<reversiblean> jrwren: oops, its .orig.tar.{bz2,gz,lzma,xz} not just .tar
<reversiblean> jrwren: horray!  done : )
<neothefox> Hi guys
<neothefox> I made a package for trusty https://launchpad.net/~soniczerops/+archive/ubuntu/repraptor-dev
<neothefox> Can somebody rewiew it? 
<neothefox> Also it says 404 on my system for some reason
<teward> neothefox: it 404s there because it failed to build
<neothefox> teward, nope, it just was too early.  Not it is ok
<neothefox> and I've got an email
<neothefox> ah, nope, I was wrong.  404 is gone, but it still not in the cache
<neothefox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/199748934/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.repraptor_0.3-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<neothefox> so should I target /bin instead of /usr/bin in qmake? 
<neothefox> because on my pc it builds
<neothefox> uh, PPA is so picky
<neothefox> bu it helps maintain the quality I guess
<reversiblean> apt-get source pkg.. does not include a diff.gz file.  why is that? 
<reversiblean> i'm referring to 'hello' package stated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzM2LNOtWU
<neothefox> So, my packagi is built and in the PPA
<neothefox> now how do I apply to Ubuntu repos? 
<neothefox> Guide sends me here
<neothefox> Can I submit a package? 
<teward> neothefox: did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages at all
<neothefox> teward, yup, and I have PPA up already. 
<teward> neothefox: well, feature freeze is already past
<teward> neothefox: so the approval deadline is past
<teward> i'm not MOTU, but if they hold to that, then you'll probably have to wait for next dev cycle
<neothefox> teward, so I can apply for the next one when daily cds are up? 
<teward> neothefox: i'm not MOTU, i'm only going by that guide
<teward> s/guide/wiki page/
<neothefox> teward, ok, on the page there is says about 12.10 deadline
<neothefox> teward, thx
<teward> neothefox: before that it says FeatureFreeze
<teward> there's always a featurefreeze deadline
<teward> neothefox: you need to start referring to the development cycle timelines - the feature freeze dates are stated on each - and feature freeze for 15.04 was feb 20th iirc
<neothefox> teward, I got it, but I never got where to find recen deadline.  Thanks again! 
<teward> neothefox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<teward> neothefox: each new dev cycle the release schedule is released for each
<neothefox> teward, got it
#ubuntu-motu 2015-03-10
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-03-11
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-03-12
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Howdy. 
<teward> anyone able to answer a general packaging policy questoin?   (haven't gotten an answer in -packaging)
<teward> specifically, forking an existing package and making changes to include additonal features - not sure where to put the 'additional features' license/copyright/source information, or whether I can add a separate copyright or license file in debian/ for that (such as copyright.ppa-changes or such), and lookin for advice...
<teward> (it's in Universe anyways, hence asking here first, if elsewhere is better i'll move my question there)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-03-13
<mdeslaur> teward: you append a new files paragraph to the copyright file with the information pertaining to the new files you've added.  The format is documented here: https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/
<teward> mdeslaur: thanks
<teward> (always love learning things!  ^.^)
<teward> (especially when i forget things too xD)
<dholbach> good morning
<bluesabre> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi bluesabre
<bluesabre> how's it going in the land of the motu? 
<dholbach> I'm currently in working-on-a-help-app land, but I'm doing well, thanks
<dholbach> how about you? 
<bluesabre> oh, that sounds cool.  alternative to yelp, something for ubuntu-phone, something else? 
<bluesabre> finally got xfce 4.12 in (huge thanks to infinity), so doing well
#ubuntu-motu 2016-03-14
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-03-15
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-03-16
<dholbach> good morning
<bluesabre> hello, can somebody take a look at potentially sponsoring https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1555046 - its a bugfix release for Xubuntu's default theme, the current package version looks pretty bad in xenial
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555046 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Please upload shimmer-themes-2.1.2-0ubuntu1 to xenial" [Low,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> (meant to insert a please in there)
<bluesabre> we'd upload it ourselves, but are still blocked by https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-March/000910.html :)
<Laney> bluesabre: I got re-added to the DMB! 
<Laney> let me look at running the packageset stuff again
<bluesabre> Laney: congrats! 
<Laney> haha
<bluesabre> (except, I think you tried to get away from it, no?) 
<Laney> been trying to go the other way
<Laney> this is only temporary
<Laney> until xnox sorts out the new members
<bluesabre> perhaps I should apply, have they been many applications? 
<Laney> some
<Laney> but more would be nice, if you have the time
<Laney> as a bonus you get to fix the packagesets yourself
<bluesabre> I've been thinking about it, I'll probably move on that shortly
<Laney> do it quickly, not sure if he plans to finish the process soon
<bluesabre> will do
<Laney> it's already off the timetable due to lack of nominations
<bluesabre> right, I'll see about getting my app in tonight
<Laney> nice
<Laney> bluesabre: done, enjoy
<Laney> it fell out of kubuntu and you got it back
<bluesabre> Laney: great, thanks a lot! 
<Unit193> https://alioth.debian.org/plugins/scmgit/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=apt-cacher-ng/apt-cacher-ng.git;a=blob;f=ChangeLog;h=4004e4d474b34ebf1fba6404f0da5d8a850a3f18;hb=refs/heads/debian/sid second to latest release has a few Ubuntu fixes.   Might be useful to pull them in/
#ubuntu-motu 2016-03-17
<dholbach> good morning
<pseudonymous> Anyone familiar with pbuild ?  Tried building a package but it fails immediately during "dh clean --with-autotools-dev" saying dh doesn't exist.  I've tracked dh to debhelper which is added to BuildDepends but that doesn't change things..
#ubuntu-motu 2016-03-18
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> how would you feel about rolling ubuntu-motu@ into ubuntu-devel-discuss@? 
<dholbach> for me it's too mail queues of spam to look through and it looks like the topics on both lists are largely the same
<dholbach> any opinions? 
<Laney> dholbach: why don't you make your filters put them in the same place? 
<Laney> -devel-discuss is too noisy for me so I will never read motu topics there
<dholbach> (?) 
<dholbach> listadmin
<dholbach> spam queue on lists.u.c itself
<dholbach> don't the two lists have roughly the same amount of traffic? 
<dholbach> ah no, not quite
<Laney> motu's pretty quiet
<dholbach> well... I find it easy to look at the subject and see if it's something I should get involved in
<dholbach> it's just that u-motu attracts lots of spam
<dholbach> and at some stage I'd like to cut down the amount of lists and spam I go through
<Laney> I know about the pain of moderating ubuntu lists
<Laney> we have really crap spam filtering
#ubuntu-motu 2017-03-13
<Logan> rbasak: is that a thing that's supported now? 
<Logan> I haven't been doing many merge proposals since UDD died
<Logan> because I used to use bzr for everything
<Logan> and debdiffs are harder
<Logan> ooh usd is damn cool
<Logan> rbasak: kinda want to join the team :P
<rbasak> Logan: we're in soft ramp up mode at the moment.  We need to make a storage efficiency improvement in Launchpad before we can make it general us. 
<rbasak> Logan: but feel free to use it and ask us to push any imports you need
<rbasak> Logan: it's still experimental though.  We may tweak and invalidate all previous commit hashes.  It's already happened a couple of times so far. 
#ubuntu-motu 2017-03-14
<Logan> rbasak: cool, thanks! 
<Unit193> Is there a concise doc on it? 
<Aaron> hello ya'll
<rbasak> Unit193: usd?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging/GitWorkflow is the best we have atm. 
<Unit193> Thanks. 
<kevinfodness> Hi - I'm not sure if I'm in the right place to ask this question, but it seems a good place to start. 
<kevinfodness> My coworkers and I are standardized on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (currently 16.04.2) which includes a version of libxml2 (2.9.3) which introduced a regression in XML parsing that was fixed in 2.9.4. 
<kevinfodness> I'd like to advocate for the 2.9.4 patch being included in 16.04.3. 
<kevinfodness> If there's a more appropriate place to go for this, please let me know! 
<sil2100> kevinfodness: hey!  Thanks for the heads up, this is generally the channel for universe packages where libxml2 is from main
<sil2100> kevinfodness: do you have an LP bug for this regression? 
<kevinfodness> Thanks, sil2100.  Looking now. 
<kevinfodness> I can't find anything.  I'll go ahead and file one.  The relevant Gnome bug is here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760183
<ubottu> Gnome bug 760183 in general "REGRESSION (v2.9.3): XML push parser fails with bogus UTF-8 encoding error when multi-byte character in large CDATA section is split across buffer" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<kevinfodness> It's included in the release notes for libxml2 2.9.4: http://xmlsoft.org/news.html
<kevinfodness> Thanks for the assist! 
<sil2100> kevinfodness: if you file an LP bug, please assign it to me if you can (sil2100 is my LP name) - I'll try looking into it or forward it to someone who will
<kevinfodness> sil2100 - I wasn't able to assign you to the Launchpad ticket, but I did add you as a subscriber.  Link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/1672838 Thanks again! 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1672838 in libxml2 (Ubuntu) "Please sync libxml2 version 2.9.4 into Ubuntu 16.04.3" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-motu 2017-03-15
<Logan> mapreri: thanks for the catch.  I get the codenames confused sometimes :P
<mapreri> Logan: ahah, np :)
#ubuntu-motu 2017-03-19
<Unit193> Logan: Hai!   Can you sync xfce4-equake-plugin?   See: Debian #856774. 
<ubottu> Debian bug 856774 in xfce4-equake-plugin "xfce4-equake-plugin: Fails to download data, needs to use https" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/856774
#ubuntu-motu 2018-03-15
<persia> Between the wiki and the /topic, I'm a bit confused.   For requesting sponsoring for a universe package, is the process of "attach a debdiff and subscribe the sponsors" still acceptable? 
<Unit193> I hope so, I've either been doing that or linking a dsc. 
<Unit193> persia: That is, yes subscribing the sponsors is how one gets it to show up on the queue. 
<persia> Cool.   Some things change, some don't.   Now to wait for a better time of day (as I recall this being about the time of day that #ubuntu-* went silent for a few hours) :)
<persia> I'm surprised linking a .dsc works.   We used to get really fussy about that, as there was no way to demonstrate provenance (vs. having all the artifacts (or artifacts to generate the artifacts, like interdiffs) in launchpad). 
 * persia has read that interdiffs are now deprecated, to little surprise, as nobody else ever seemed to like them very much
<Unit193> Well sometimes you have to, debdiffs have caused a need to re-upload before that I know of even.   The "preferred" way to do it is from a PPA build (see my irssi sponsor bug), but that allows you to upload a prospective version only once, otherwise you have to incriment the version (and sometimes sponsors will forget to change it back.) 
<Unit193> I have been known to just link from /source/ on my httpd.  >_>
<persia> Now I'm confused.   if working off the same tarball, I can't think of any reason a debdiff wouldn't be sufficient. 
<Unit193> Native package, png/jpg file changes. 
<persia> That said, I had a sponsor upload a debdiff from "persia@localhost" once, which remains an embarassment (and caused me, when I was a sponsor, to be extra careful checking changelog entries). 
<Unit193> Eg, xubuntu-docs.  :P
<Unit193> lintian would shout so very loudly now. 
<persia> Yes :)
<Unit193> ...I presume all sponsors run that, at least.   It's part of my build process (pbuilder hook, after complete.) 
<persia> For generating binary files, I used to store them in 7-bit safe encodings (e.g. base64, uuencode, etc.),  and then "build" them at package build time. 
<persia> When I was a sponsor, I used to run a bunch of quality checkers, and I think running lintian is part of the default calls to all the build tools these days. 
<persia> But I would be unsurprised if there was this one person who had a special workflow. 
<persia> Other way to do binary is to put the source under SCM, and then always get sponsored by a member of the team with SCM access.   For those few native packages that do branding, etc., ( e.g. flavours), in some ways that makes more sense, as random folk not working in the flavour context probably shouldn't upload. 
<Unit193> Well at the time, neither one of us devs had upload rights, so it was a bit more fun. 
<persia> Yeah.   Nobody on the flavour team being an uploader is an issue.   I remember that being true intermittently for ubuntustudio for a while. 
<Unit193> (Both of us have packageset now, so it's all fine.) 
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Can you snag https://packages.qa.debian.org/v/variety/news/20180315T122744Z.html
<tsimonq2> Unit193: . 
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Gah, forgot to -s unit193
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Oh well. 
<tsimonq2> Unit193: When will you be able to do this yourself again?  :P
<Unit193> Well can't self approve, sooo...  Thanks! 
#ubuntu-motu 2018-03-16
<Minsc> Hi ya! 
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Since I know you're here, figure may as well mention...
<Unit193> ! info ophcrack bionic
<ubottu> ophcrack (source: ophcrack): Microsoft Windows password cracker using rainbow tables (gui).  In component universe, is optional.  Version 3.8.0-2 (bionic), package size 193 kB, installed size 497 kB
<Unit193> \o/
<tsimonq2> Oh, cool. 
<Unit193> Yes, only had to swap applications and rebuild one to get rid of all qt4. 
#ubuntu-motu 2018-03-17
<Unit193> tsimonq2: https://wiki.znc.in/ChangeLog/1.6.6 not critical, but looks like a bugfix one would want in a LTS nevertheless (https://packages.qa.debian.org/z/znc/news/20180315T155425Z.html)
<tsimonq2> Unit193: . 
#ubuntu-motu 2019-03-14
<CMooney> Hi, I'd like to package up pdftk-java as a backbport for Bionic.  I've struggled to find information on source packaging, there seems to be quite a lot for binary packaging.  Has anyone got any helpful links? 
<CMooney> Is it worth just following (broadly) the "Fixing a bug" section of the Ubuntu Packaging guide? 
#ubuntu-motu 2019-03-17
<arjuncr> hi, how i get Ubuntu official membership ?,   what is the procedure ?. 
<rbasak> arjuncr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
