It's funny how blizzard states that Ra-den was just a bonus boss and was not part of progression and that Lei Shen was the true end boss....and yet the Realm First achievement is still tied to Ra-den instead of Lei Shen

First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer.  I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group.  I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group.  Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke.  C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders.  But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%).  In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange.  There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses.  Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction.  In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment.  I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours.  Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics. 

What is point of this boss?  TF gear source?  Reward for killing Lei Shen? 

Ra-Den was always more about lore than anything else.  It is mind boggling that you have cleared all of this tier on heroic and your issue is with a one off boss that was never meant to be impossible.  Seriously is there anything people on this site won't complain about? 

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Originally Posted by Shauni

The fact that his dungeon journal was leaked before the patch helped a bit.  I think

And the fact anyone who has done heroic content over the past few years has an edge and knows what clearing these bosses take.  This is more of an issue with players becoming too good and less of an issue of Blizzard releasing "faceroll" content. 

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Originally Posted by Deja Thoris

It was an "experimental" limited attempt boss that Blizz admitted didn't turn out how they planned.  Besides this, tactics are now well known and technically you overgear it.  Limited attempt bosses are going to be numbers checks by Blizz's own admission, not brutal co-ordination checks. 

You aren't really offering any new insights. 

And as usual it is just more mindless whining without context or perspective and gives Blizzard absolutely nothing to work with. 

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Originally Posted by det

Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting.  Killed after boss is out ..what?  10 weeks?  With the second group.  15 attempts.  After exactly 662 other guilds have done it.  Your definition of faceroll? 

What is this?  I don't even.....

This is why Blizzard hasn't released harder raid content.  People who have spent significant amounts of time raiding this type of content for years can't seem to comprehend it seems "easier" because it is what they are used to doing and as a result end up giving Blizzard piss poor feedback.  Again it seems like a bit more perspective on the part of hardcore raiders would help a lot in getting Blizzard to retune heroic content in future tiers but it isn't likely to happen since empty headed whining and bitching is easier. 

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Originally Posted by Choice

If that was the cause he wouldn't be the boss with the realm first or immortal achievement.  And when you consider the fight as it was intended to be it obviously was attempting to be more challenging than Lei Shen.  The 'optional' tag was just an excuse for not putting it into LFR.  Do you really think the forums could take the end boss of an instance kept exclusively to heroic in the current game? 

Since when does Blizzard need an excuse to do anything?  It is their own god damn game.  They don't owe ANYONE an explanation for ANYTHING. 

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Originally Posted by Soulstrike

the whole "shrouded in mystery" thing became dumb after world 5th kills since people knew what to do beforehand

You realize the mystery was what and who Ra-Den was right?  It had absolutely nothing at all to do with difficulty.  For fucks sake....not everything in this game is about downing raid bosses. 

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Originally Posted by dzidek

@Zyphenz
I don't have screen, but DMB said "wipe on 5%".  I know it's impossible, but not for DBM.  And us I remeber wipe on Ultraxion HC at 60k, so It was about 0,01%.  Maybe similar situation here.  Maybe it was 5,56% or 5,6%.  Just extremly unlucky. 

@Bullshot
God damn you all.  I DIDN'T SAY THAT CONTENT IS TOO EASY!  I said that Ra-den is too easy as last boss.  But it has already been explained why it is not. 

So when you used the word faceroll in the topic you weren't referring to ease of content.  Right.  Ok then.  Sorry but people called you on your bullshit.  Get over it.  Care to explain why anyone here should take you seriously at all much less Blizzard? 

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Originally Posted by bigfootbigd

basically, heroics and heroic-only bosses are pretty much easier to access just like legendaries.  done. 

Oh shut the fuck up.  Outside of people paying for carries show me ONE person who has managed to down Ra-Den without putting in a decent amount of time.  Regular "dirty casuals" aren't getting Ra-Den kills.  I'm sorry but that just isn't happening and comparing it to the legendary quest line that was ALWAYS intended to be completed by anyone running any version of Mop raids is just asinine and moronic and yet again just shows how completely out of touch much of the raiding community is. 

First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer.  I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group.  I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group.  Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke.  C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders.  But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%).  In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange.  There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses.  Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction.  In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment.  I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours.  Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics. 

What is point of this boss?  TF gear source?  Reward for killing Lei Shen? 

You must be new to this game. 

Sinestra was no where near as hard as most of the other bosses that were released at the same time. 

And it was bonus boss not the next step up boss. 

Look at Spine compared to Madness..

I am in a world rank 60 guild and we spent 500+ wipes on Lei shen. 

then took 10 wipes to kill Ra-den (100% kill rate once we got him to 40%)

Heck, even this reset (and the last 3) we killed him within 1-2 pulls.  Bonus bosses are perks not meant to be harder. 

Well Ra-den is a three phased fight.  on P1 you have Vita and Anima phase and then there is P2 at 40%.  I think Blizzard intended that you would take Vita first and stay there untill you need to reset your debuffs and go to Anima phase ( which in my opinion seems to be lot harder than Vita) and stay there for x amount of time.  Problem was that you could go to Anima and then straight back to Vita by moving boss towards Anima orb and then eating Vita orb after that.  So basically you are ignoring 1/3 of the whole fight.  I'm not saying even if this couldn't be ignored the fight would be actually harder than Lei shen. 

Somewhat I consider this being in same category as few of the first Will of the emperor HC kills.  Guilds stacked mages who cc'd little adds for whole fight.  Making the fight revolve around killing big adds and soaking balls from them.  Makes it a lot easier, doesnt it ? 

Algalon really wasn't that challenging... the hour limit on attempts made him seem challenging, but the fight itself was not a hard fight.  It was much easier than, say, firefighter, and really just on par with the the rest of the medium difficulty hard modes in Ulduar. ( I killed Algalon while he was still current content, prior to being able to outgear it.) 

I recently took a trip to Ulduar soloing, Firefighter was alot of fun, chaos. 

"Have you had the dream again?  A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside." 

Originally Posted by det View Post
Top 25 guild calls itself "semi-hardcore" - well that is interesting.  Killed after boss is out ..what?  10 weeks?  With the second group.  15 attempts.  After exactly 662 other guilds have done it.  Your definition of faceroll? 

What is this?  I don't even.....

He calls himself and the second group "semi-hardcore", not the entire guild.  Raiding 2-3 days per week is pretty much "semi-hardcore". 

BTT: was very disappointed after 150 wipes on lei shen to kill ra-den on fourth pull, anyways a good source for tf gear and runestones(alts, slackers, bad luck bobs approve)

First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer.  I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group.  I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group.  Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke.  C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders.  But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%).  In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange.  There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses.  Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction.  In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment.  I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours.  Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics. 

What is point of this boss?  TF gear source?  Reward for killing Lei Shen? 

You shan't say anything, for thy lied. 
1.  yeh,,Bonus boss being easy..yay..
2.  no not everyone and there mother will see Ra'den, I know full well i won't be seeing it untill I immensly over-gear it..
3.  no Ra'den was never supposedly to be really hard.. it's a bonus boss. 
this was taken at 2013-07-24 13:46 GTM +1

Scrubbusters had #8 world kill on Lei Shen, so they're basically a top 10 guild.  They raid 19.00-23.00 or something like that.  I would call that semi-hardcore.  Granted, they're among the best players in the game, but I see a hardcore group as people who dedicated whole days to the raids until they've downed the bosses.  Just because they're more skilled doesn't mean they are hardcore. 

Oh, GEEZ, THAT'S the definition of hardcore? 

95% of the hardcores out there feel like slackers now thanks to you. 

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Originally Posted by Kharli

4.  no Ra'den was never supposedly to be really hard.. it's a bonus boss. 

Yeah, Raden was supposed to be very hard.  He just wasn't due to implementation problems that Blizzard decided to let lie. 

First of at all I'm not a hardcore gamer.  I play in top25 world guild but in 2nd group.  I think that we are textbook example of semi-hardcore group.  Yesterday we cleared 13/13H and my thoughs are that Ra-Den it's a joke.  C'mon it should be hardest son of the b**ch in this tier, the biggest challange, pain in the ass for raiders.  But it's faceroll, we killed it in 15th attemp (before, we had a few attempts ended on 5-8%).  In compare to 140 wipes on Lei Shen it's at least strange.  There are a lot more difficult bosses in this tier...
Algalon or Sinestra were a very challanging bosses.  Killing them gave a lot of satisfaction.  In compare to them Ra-Den is big dissapoitment.  I know that WoW is more and more casual but optional hc only boss should be big challange for groups like ours.  Ok, all in my group (excpet me) are 540+ but after all, it still should be a challenge due to the mechanics. 

What is point of this boss?  TF gear source?  Reward for killing Lei Shen? 

*sigh* Ra-Den was never meant to be hard... Do you even read mmo champion bro? 

Scrubbusters had #8 world kill on Lei Shen, so they're basically a top 10 guild.  They raid 19.00-23.00 or something like that.  I would call that semi-hardcore.  Granted, they're among the best players in the game, but I see a hardcore group as people who dedicated whole days to the raids until they've downed the bosses.  Just because they're more skilled doesn't mean they are hardcore. 

If you think they only raid those times then you're terribly wrong haha.