User1: (late) morning everyone
User2: evening ochosi
User1: ok folks, so we have an extras PPA that we can populate with apps that aren't in any repo yet: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/extras
User1: Unit193, Noskcaj, bluesabre ^
 * Unit193 isn't in dev.
User1: User3 let's work on that
User1: meanwhile you can still prep packages that one of us can then push there
User3: Meh.  Anywho, copy anything from /xfce you like, though might want to tell me what so I can ping if/when I update it.
User4: +1 for Unit193 in -dev
User3: (I'm not actually a dev) Meh, I'm find with things being under review, really.
User1: yeah, well the whole asking when something's updated is the reason why i think you should be able to do it yourself
User3: User1 Want thunar-dropbox-plugin in there?
User2: ochosi, i too am not in dev.
User2: I'll add the embed plugin when i get the chance, since corsac never uploaded it
User2: debian xfpm now "replace consolekit recommends by libpam-systemd, and add systemd-shim | system-sysv as well in order to not force systemd as init to users for now."
User2: Is that a change we don't want? I've not been following systemd
User3: User2 We already have that, not an issue.
User2: ok. I'll merge as soon as the branch is ready
User3: xfce4-session, lightdm, ligghtdm-gtk-greeter and perhaps others got the same thing.
User2: yep
User5: User1 any idea how to tell/encourage people to also file upstream reports? flooding the Xfce tracker won't help in most cases, but having only lp reports doesn't help either
User4: brainwash, while it's boring and repetitive, one way is to comment on the LP bugs..
User4: brainwash, the other option is to file relevant bugs on the xfce bugzilla yourself
User5: could someone from -team do that?
User4: why would somebody in the -team do that?
User5: good question
User4: wouldn't it be better if somebody else did it rather than waste the time of people who are already committed to the project?
User5: it would be
User5: however, bug tracking is not a waste of time
User4: well, no
User4: but i don't want, say, bluesabre do bug tracking instead of actually fixing bugs
User4: time comes in finite amounts
User6: there is a template comment for "please file an upstream bug"
User6: i often send bug reports upstream
User6: because it's quicker than trying to explain how to use bugzilla
User6: User5 why did you subscribe me to that flash bug today?
User6: because you knew i had a workaround for it?
User6: or because of some weirdness on lp?
User5: so you could add a nice comment which explains why the bug is happening :)
User6: there's no nice explanation for it unfortunately... it happens because flash detects when focus changes and unmaximizes itself. so it is "by design"
User6: the workaround is to patch xlib so it drops those events instead of sending them to the window
User6: (which i do at runtime)
User5: I know about the workaround
User5: so there is no chance to get it fixed officially (in ubuntu)?
User6: none at all
User6: unless abode fixes it, which they definitely won't
User6: they didn't even fix it when all videos were playing with reversed chroma (aka the smurf bug)
User5: I see
User5: what was the deal with the new present extension?
User5: didn't you want to utilize it?
User5: vsync stuff
User6: yeah... no support from the video drivers yet
User6: it's really easy to just patch it in
User6: but nobody can use it
User6: it directly replaces XRender
User5: right, 14.10 won't support it yet I guess
User6: maybe if you use intel or nouveau
User5: or maybe
User5: yeah
User6: just look for DRI3 and Present extensions
User6: you'll probably have them
User6: but they won't actually fix tearing unless the video driver implements them properly, which they don't
User6: currently they just fake it by passing it throgh to XRender
User5: intel supports them now
User6: intel already has tear-free with DRM
User5: yes, and it has been improved a lot
User5: tearfree is even better than xr_glx_hybird (compton)
User6: i don't want to add yet another rendering backend and config option
User6: yes, it should be
User6: and present should be even better
User5: an it is finally :)
User5: even better o.o
User6: present can go one stage further and do proper double buffering
User6: where the app actually knows which buffer is being displayed
User6: that's a bit more complex to implement though
User5: sounds promising
User6: but the thing is, i want to wait until present is widely supported, and then just drop all the other hacks
User6: and by widely supported i mean nvidia binary driver supports it
User5: this will take some time, but a tear free experience ootb is really needed
User5: especially since it's already 2014
User6: go to https://devtalk.nvidia.com and ask them to support present
User1: funny that there doesnt seem to be a related discussion yet in that forum
User6: that's because it is mostly users who know nothing. tinkerers, if you will
User6: every other thread is complaining about tearing though
User1: mmm
User1: tearing is really one of the basic aspects where linux limps behind other OSs
User6: only if you use the proprietary drivers
User6: the actual place where linux lags behind is in decent 3d acceleration
User6: only intel has quality drivers, and their hardware is rubbish
User1: i dunno, nouveau didn't seem to improve tearing issues at all here
User1: all it did was push my fan to 100%
User1: (constantly)
User6: nouveau has present now
User1: oh, it does?
User1: not bad, if that worked, i guess i'd switch
User6: all software is bad, all computers suck....
User6: anything more complex than 8 bit microcontrollers is basically guaranteed to not work properly
User1: makes you wonder why we ever managed to put a man on the moon or a rover on mars though
User1: can't be *that* bad
User6: that was done with 8 bit computers
User6: the question is why can't we do it today?
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