User1: hm why do we still build the xserver udebs on ubuntu, do we actually use them anywhere?
User2: no
User3: User1 do they bother you :)
User1: User3 only in the sense it takes unnecessary build time..
User3: well, d-i does build the gtk version too which uses them
User3: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/gtk/ etc
User1: aw :(
User3: the official iso's don't use them
User1: so that's a yes then, ah well
User3: how many seconds does it take building them?-)
User1: not on my main system, but waiting on arm builders in ppa's for example
User3: ah
User1: hm looks like we could just pull some patches to make reverse optimus work on xserver 1.13
User1: eg intel driving output on nouveau or radeon
User3: so my t420s could use displayport (owned by nvidia)?
User3: hmm no, that's normal optimus?-)
User1: nah 'normal' optimus would let you switch to the nvidia card for rendering the internal display if you plug something in
User3: of course..
User1: but yeah looks like we need to pull some patches from fedora xserver for that
User1: airlied also updated the autobind patch for it
User3: I think we'd want some commits from the latest -modesetting to fix some race bugs..
User3: also for quantal/precise
User3: just that it's hard to verify they actually fix a race
User1: yeah :(
User1: sru's are so annoying for x, mostly because a lot of the upstream development on those drivers is just bugfixes. You kind of want all of them even if not directly affected by them.
User1: mm i did get the hdmi output to show up on the eee
User1: actually using it caused x to crash, I suspect I have to grab the f18 patches :/
User1: hm still crashes
User4: does xorg default to mirror or span for multimonitor configs?
User5: seb128, it mirrors by default but that doesn't matter, since gnome-randr sets its own defaults
User4: bryce, g-s-d's xrandr default is "don't do anything, let xorg handle it", which is what should happen at least in the greeter and for new users
User4: then g-s-d write a config and overwrite that once you use the xrandr panel in system settings
User5: seb128, hmm, I thought it did override things
User5: seb128, anyway if it isn't, then it should be coming up as mirrored by default.
User4: bryce, that was changed some cycle ago, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/data/org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xrandr.gschema.xml.in.in?id=75e052127eeb022d83b7a744b110d8bde5b7280c
User5: seb128, aha that explains it
User4: bryce, the key description states "'do-nothing' will use the default Xorg behaviour (extend the desktop in recent versions)"
User4: is that wrong/do we patch Xorg?
User6: User4 thats only true in fedora as far as I can see.. lovely
User6: aka http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/xorg-x11-server.git/tree/xserver-1.6.99-right-of.patch
User5: although I do note there's been a lot of change of this code in current git recently
User5: seb128, so, testing this on precise with HW.  when I hotplug a new monitor (no monitor.xml present), with gnome running the external monitor shows up to the right of my lvds.
User5: seb128, when I start up a raw X session with no gnome running, then do the same, the monitor does not turn on by default when hotplugged, and when I do turn it on, it's mirrored.
User5: Sarvatt, does this match what you're seeing?
User5: seb128, did you file a bug report for jason?
User6: User5 hotplug under gnome, extended, bare xinit I get mirrored, and gnome is mirrored after killing that X and restarting lightdm
User5: Sarvatt, ok, same as me
User4: bryce, not yet, I was trying to figure out if there is a bug and what component is to blame for it first
User4: bryce, User6 seems like a g-s-d issue then?
User5: seb128, yep
User4: bryce, thanks
User5: seb128, see the 'Handling of hotplug' section on https://live.gnome.org/RandR
User4: bryce, ok, I guess we need to backport http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=32f7a938fca072e14bad1928b492e29ba0e3090c
User4: "Despite the name, the "default-monitors-setup" key is only used at boot time. After hot-plug of an external monitor, the "xinerama" setup is always used."
User4: bryce, thanks for the help tracking it down ;-)
User5: seb128, I think that does the opposite of what's wanted
User5: maybe, let me look closer
User4: + case GSD_XRANDR_BOOT_BEHAVIOUR_DO_NOTHING:
User4: + config = make_xinerama_setup (manager, priv->rw_screen);
User4: is weird
User4: I think it's based on the fact that upstream assumes xinerama is the default xorg behaviour
User5: yeah
User4: which is likely because upstream is using fedora, and they are patching their xserver...
User5: seb128, hum, yes that could be
User4: I will comment on that bug and check with them
User5: so yeah I think that patch might end up doing the "right" thing accidentally, but I think it might end up just forcing all multi-head to mirrored, which isn't quite what we want
User4: I think otherwise the patch makes change if the make_xinerama_setup in that case is changed to make_mirror_setup instead
User4: well, that's the default behaviour
User4: if you use the panel you end up with a monitors.xml config and that's used
 * bryce nods
User5: seb128, ok so with this patch it looks like the CONF_KEY_DEFAULT_MONITORS_SETUP key would let us control what our policy is, separate from fedora, yes?
User5: seb128, well, aside from that here's my thought:
User4: bryce, yes, that's a gsettings key, we can change the default in our override (where we set the theme, wallpaper, etc)
User5: in make_xinerama_setup() it iterates through the outputs, and lays them out one to the right of the next
User5: we could have that code check the physical dimensions of the screen, and if it is 0mm x 0mm, don't increment x in that case.
User5: hrm, although that will  overlay rather than clone, that's not quite right either
User5: seb128, anyway, my thinking is that there needs to be some logic somewhere that detects if the output is a projector, and in that case clone, but in all other cases extend
User4: bryce, do you see that logic to be an xorg thing or a GNOME thing?
User4: doing it at the server level would make it work for all desktops, but I guess the xserver is not really the place to make such decisions on behaviours?
User3: don't think there's any reliable way to detect projectors..
User5: seb128, well, to my knowledge, it's not something we're going to be correct 100% of the time.  (There isn't an EDID property that says "I'm a projector".)  So it feels like something that should be on the client end, so it can be configured by the user when it's wrong
User4: ok
User3: well, what's worse is seemingly random behaviour
User4: well, I will backport a tweaked version of the gsd fix as a first fix
User4: we can try to be smarter then, though I'm not sure either how to guess that a projector is in use
User2: hrm
User2: why would you want to clone for a projector?
User3: so you can see the presentation from your laptop screen, so no need to strain your neck trying to see the big screen :)
User3: I guess that's why..
User5: jcristau, it's in the specification to do it that way
User2: "the specification"?
User5: "Connecting to a Projector or TV
User5: When connecting to a projector or TV (heuristic evaluation of the EDID can determine with reasonable certainty whether the display is a projector or TV), the default behaviour is to mirror displays, and presentation mode is checked by default"
User5: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1aHvJ-iIw-59bXTYBmIhQqEx0za2h9jpFE_RhZ2VOvJc/edit?authkey=CJO5wPkH&hl=en_GB
User3: restricted
User2: that's not a rationale..
User3: maybe the presentation app should clone it's window :)
User2: usually when using a projector i want to have notes or something on the laptop, not a clone.  maybe it's just me...
User5: tjaalton, what if the user is presenting things using several apps?
User3: User5 he can tick 'mirror' :)
User5: jcristau, it's just you. ;-)
User3: actually what jcristau said it's how powerpoint/impress works
User3: or one mode of it
User5: tjaalton, that's not what they're asking for though
User3: probably misused by 95% of it's users :)
User3: they?
User5: TPTB
User5: Chris Kenyon & co., etc.
User3: so they didn't get proper feedback :)
User5: tjaalton, lack of understanding has never stopped a manager from making a decision ;-)
User7: User3 LibO has a presentation mode like that too
User3: User7 yep, that's what I meant by 'impress' :)
User7: I was reading a bit too fast and only saw the first  âº
User7: but I remember people were begging for it in Impress for a long time, so I assume it's something that people really want and should work  âº
User3: User5 :)
User7: of course, when doing presentations using Evince, maybe clone is better
User7: and don't call it "mirror", the last thing you want is a *mirrored* image :p
User3: right :)
User7: it's like that funny feature of Intel's drivers where you can turn somebody's screen upside down with a shortcut  :p
User7: in Windows
User5: tjaalton, think it's worthwhile to look at displaylink on the nexus7 again?  we're still basically screwed with too-old kernel and too-new X.org right?  Have you had any other ideas?
User8: displaylink? is that like displayport?
User3: User5 right, not worth it imo
User3: User8 no, graphics over usb
User3: erm
User3: the adapter is behind usb, the display connector can be whatever
User5: tjaalton, yeah sounds good
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