User1: Kamion : tested it a bit, the installer enters an endless loop - never snaps out , after it sasying it enters lowmem mode i.e. loading the lowmem packages.
User2: User4 it's only the installer and main packages files which are used during the first stage anyway, right?
User3: does qemu support serial interfaces?
User4: User2 hm, except that bunzip2 probably isn't installed at that point
User4: User3 if you've got that sort of setup you wouldn't bother with emulation
User4: User2 and restricted
User2: the uncompressed hoary/main packages file is only ~2M
User3: User4 saves a box, though.
User4: User2 remember we're already winning over Debian mind
User4: smaller Packages files
User2: User4 right, and main and restricted are decompressed separately
* Mithrandir goes to bed.
User4: User2 what did you think about my three Ship proposals for installer language support?
User4: jfbterm, unifont, console-terminus
User5: User4 I was wondering the other day, can you think of a good reason hostname shouldn't be autoset?
User2: User4 did I miss your proposal?  I lost some mail a few days ago
User2: User5 yes...autoset to what?
User5: a random string?
User5: the ubuntu-macaddress
User5: would that cause the world to come to an end?
User6: No, but it's pretty irritating behaviour.
User6: I cursed Microsoft when they started doing that in their installers.
User5: User6 why?
User6: "jkfdW2kk, now that's an intuitive hostname!"
User6: "bobsmith1" might be nicer (based on username, or some other string entered in the installer) than the random gobleygoop.
User7: Or use dict -m on something from urandom
User7: That's fun too
User1: chrisa : yes :)
User5: but why do you need the hostname anyway? Chances are if they are going to register it with a dhcp server they will change the host nam
User5: most desktop users won't be running any services
User6: It's traditional for UNIX hosts to have a sane name, though.
User6: And for people to have prompts like user@name:~$
User6: s/name/host/
User7: There's something endearing about user@jkfdW2kk:~$
User5: User6 anyone at the prompt can figure out how to change their hostname then
User6: I suppose.  <shrug>... I'm not terribly emotional about it.
User6: As long as I always have the option to run my installers in ultra-verbose, ask-me-everything mode, I don't know that I personally care.
User6: I still prefer the idea of basing the name on the "create a normal user" username, though.
User6: So, you'd get dave@dave01:~$
User6: Or whatever.
User7: That'll make the paranoid ex-ms droids happy
User6: (Of course, that's horribly out of order, as far as the installer is concerned)
User7: "declined@declined: ~$"
User4: User2 http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001308.html (and subthread)
User4: User2 http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001309.html
User4: User5 there's an RFC about recommended practices for host naming ...
User4: User5 we attempt to set the hostname from DHCP or DNS, but if that's not possible I think getting a name from the user is appropriate
User5: User4 it's really irritating though. Home users don't know what a host name is (better docs could help with that) and business users likely don't know where a given machine will end up
User4: I dunno, IME arguments that start "most desktop users" tend to fall flat ... we had a number of experiences like that pre-Warty :)
User2: User4 yeah, that was during my black{out,hole} period
User4: User2 thought it might've been
User5: what does IME stand for?
User6: In My Experience.
User8: in my experience
User5: Kamio: ahh
User5: is this what you were thinking of? http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2100.html
User4: we did talk about it before Warty - one of the reasons we left it as it is, actually, is that changing the hostname after installation is such a royal pain
User4: the hostname has a bad habit of getting hardcoded into configuration files all over the place, rightly or wrongly
User2: kamion: is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=99339 a concern for us?
User4: User5 I think there's a rather more serious one somewhere
* sivang didn't know there were poems in RFs :)
User4: User1 look for "Jabberwocky"
User1: Kamion : it's by Louis Kroll, right?
User2: User4 how familiar are you with jfbterm?  some of that i18n console stuff is scary (random setuid binaries and such)
User4: User1 parody thereof
User1: Kamion : ah, k
User9: Night everybody!
User1: night pitti
User4: User2 jfbterm seems to work for me on powerpc
User5: User4 if XP gives random host names, then the world probably won't come to an end if Ubuntu does as well.
User4: User2 hm, yeah, it has a setuid root binary, that's annoying
User4: User5 XP does lots of things that we're trying to fix :-)
User5: User4 hostnames dont fix much
User4: like I say, we did debate this before Warty
User4: jfbterm would need a full audit, it seems
User4: it has privilege-dropping code, and drops privileges as the first thing it does; but it's still a world-executable setuid-root program
User5: It just seems contrary to an otherwise "Just the facts" type of setup
User2: User4 what resources does it hold when it drops privileges?
User4: it's the first thing that main() does, so just its starting file descriptors I should think
User4: it does tty-switching by ioctl() on /dev/console and /dev/tty*, and a couple of things with /dev/tty* and /dev/fb*
User4: some odd ioperm() stuff as well for vga16fb
User4: we could defer that for now and just take the font stuff?
User2: it certainly wouldn't need to be setuid if it dropped privileges as its first operation
User2: ioperm() requires root, though
User2: I'll look at it
User2: User4 have you looked at them with an eye to the usual seed requirements?
User2: (are they maintained, etc.)
User2: I have no problems with unifont; seems dead simple
User2: oh, they really are just fonts
User4: there's #218720
User4: dunno if it matters though
User2: unifont and console-terminus are both fine with me
User4: I can't say I can claim unifont is maintained, but as you say it's just a font
User2: we'll defer jfbterm for now, as you proposed
User4: all right, thanks
User2: it would be a good idea to send something to the new security-review list about jfbterm
User4: jfbterm may be less of a concern now that we're doing UTF-8 throughout
User4: I don't yet have a good feel for how good the Linux console's support for UTF-8 actually is in practice
User1: Kamion : for my belingual needs, it's pretty fine, although console RTL input can be sometimes tricky.
User10: has anyone tested ubuntu on intel emt64 chips?
User10: i understand that its basically an amd compatible x86_64, but not quite.
User8: I think it is enough that ubuntu should work
User8: we provide a kernel for it and there's no userspace incompatabilities
User8: but no, I don't know of anyone who's tested it
User10: danke
User2: User11 around?
User4: I believe the amd64-generic kernel should work too (just as well, since that's all that's on the CD)
User8: right, sorry I more meant that our kernel was aware of EM64T
User8: as in, at the source level
User4: ah, right
User11: User2 Pong?
User2: User11 how do the reports from your kernel look?  what changes do you have that we'll need to merge into the default kernel?
User11: User2 For the most part, pretty good
User11: User2 Suspend to disk is still failing for some people for reasons I haven't tracked down
User11: But other than that, the success rate for suspend to disk is almost perfect, and suspend to RAM is working better than I expected
* Kamion gets his bug list back down to 100 bugs
User4: guess that's time to hit the sack; night all
User2: User11 which swsusp are you using?
User2: User4 night
User11: User2 Kernel stock
User2: User11 I thought that one didn't work with modular storage device drivers
User11: User2 I added some fairly trivial code so that echo -n resume >/sys/power/state triggers another resume
User11: And then added code to do that at the end of the initrd
User2: ah, I see
User2: so we just need 2.6.9
User11: 2.6.10 would probably be better, but yeah
User11: I've got a patch tree here, so I can show you what I added to the tree fairly easily
User11: Mm. Yeah. 4 patches - at least one is in current Linus tree, one is the dodgy dsdt-initrd hack, one is theoretically needed but I haven't found a case that doesn't work without it and one is the swsusp stuff
User2: how does Linus feel about the dsdt-initrd thing?
User11: I doubt he's keen. The linux-acpi people certainly aren't.
User12: User11 does your stuff work for all laptops, or just one model ? And if just one model, how do I convince you to teach me how to fix my laptop(s) ?
User11: On the other hand, jdub needs it in order to get battery information
User11: User12 In theory, all
User11: What's the problem?
User12: my hoverbook - you remember it right? - will go into battery sleep mode, but nothing brings it alive except for holding the powe down for 5-7 seconds.
User12: and every time I've tried suspend to disk, it loops and never gets into sleep.
User12: I'd /kill/ for battery sleep mode to work well.
User13: User12 you don't have to kill!
User12: User13 do too.
User11: User12 Ok, we have the first issue on multiple machines.
User13: User12 an X40 is only a few clicks away
User12: User13 you offering me yours ?
User13: no
User13: but surely it's easier than murder
User12: well, then, TEASE.
User12: you are a sleep teaser
User11: User12 I suspect the complete failure to wake is the same as the NC4010's failure to wake and the craptop's spontaneous reboot
User12: craptop ?
User11: User12 On the other hand, it's also worth checking /proc/acpi/wakeup
User11: The VIA piece of shit we had in Oxford
User13: User12 via aberration
User12: cat /proc/acpi/wakeup
User12: Device  Sleep state     Status
User12: LID       3            *enabled
User12: SLPB       3            *enabled
User12: PWRB       5            *enabled
User12: CRD0       3            disabled
User12: LANC       3            disabled
User11: Heh. Ok, that's not it.
User12: AC97       3            disabled
User12: thats what it claims :0.
User11: Yeah, probably the same problem, then. The Intel guys know about it, I'm trying to track it down.
User11: Suspend to disk is more interesting
User12: can I help other than by throwing peanuts and shouting encouragement.
User11: User12 Oh, if you could check suspend to RAM after init=/bin/bash, that would be good
User11: Just mount proc and echo -n 3 >/proc/acpi/sleep
User11: I'd expect it to fail in the same way, but it'd be nice to confirm it
User11: Suspend to disk shouldn't fail in the way it's failing, as far as I can tell
User11: But it seems unwilling to give large amounts of debug information
User11: So I'll probably need to throw a pile of printks in a kernel and get you to test it
User12: ok, I'll do so later - I'm high latency on debugging these things, generally each reboot. (Too busy working to fiddle much ...)
User11: Once we've got this solved, it ought to work anyway
User11: s/anyway/anywhere/
User12: I'm happy to run a custom kernel for you.
User11: Cool
User12: Do I need to start with a special kernel? Currently I've just warty's P4 kernel.
User11: Oh
User11: Were you testing my stuff with my kernel?
User14: ahr.
User11: Suspend to disk won't work without my kernel and my initrd
User11: Uh, initrd-tools
User12: apt-line ?
User11: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/laptops/ ./
User11: You need the initrd-tools *first*
User12: heh, or it'll fail to install the kernel :|
User14: User11 yay, aptable
User13: User14 morning
User14: yo yo
User11: User14 Dude, it has been for ages
User14: ooh, qemu update works
User15: hrmpf.  usb camera plugged in, shows up in lsusb, why did nothing automount?  and how do I cause it to mount?
User12: User15 did usbstorage find it ?
User15: usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using address 3
User15: Nov 15 18:13:42 localhost usb.agent[3081] :      libgphoto2: loaded successfully
User11: Looks like the mass storage driver didn't bind to it
User15: now I really wonder...
User12: that sounds like a no. So, its not a mountable device.
User15: which would mean?
User15: oh.
User12: thus the lack of automount love :).
User11: User15 It's not a mass storage device, so it needs an application that knows how to speak to it
User11: gphoto ought to manage
User12: you need to use gphoto to pull stuff off it
* lifeless high fives mjg59
User15: gphoto invocation?
User12: User11 do I need to reboot post initrd-tools install before kernel install ? I presume not ... but checking is good.
User11: User12 Nope
User12: User11 whats the kernel image I should look for ?
* lamont_r wonders what program to run to get to libgphoto and friends...
User11: linux-image-2.6.9-something-386
User14: User17 http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/i18n/iiimf-faq.html
User12: User11 you could probably use a pre-depends to force the initrd ordering.
User12: 2.6.9-1-386 coming in.
User11: User12 Yeah, but that'd require me rebuilding the damn kernel images again
User12: well, /next build/ then :)
User16: is there already a guide for qemu?
User17: User14 Yet Another Input Method To End All Input Methods.. i'm losing track :)
User13: User17 oh, this week's ultimate input method
User11: Just use Dasher
User13: User11 this is cjk
User13: User11 by 'ultimate input method for every language, not just the crap ones from the english fascists' read 'doesn't work for anything other than cjk, will abuse anyone attempting to make it work for non-cjk'
User13: (including 8859-1)
User17: User13 i've heard of people using dasher for chinese input
User13: oh wow
User13: consider myself corrected
User17: User13 it must be a little disorienting
User13: mmm
User17: but yeah
User14: User17 ii* seems to be the input method du jour
User17: so many IMs are the Smart Common, or Unified, or eXtended, or Smart Extended or Integrated
User17: and the great part is that all now seem to be providing interfaces to EACH OTHER
User17: i'm getting some ideas IM wise for hoary though :)
User17: some pretty non-invasive changes we can make that will do good good things
User14: rocking
User17: gnome has the infrastructure there already
User17: more than six months ago, i used to do non-latin input in emacs exclusively.. now i will load up gedit even if it's just to paste it elewhere.. things are getting better quickly even if they aren't getting more organized :)
User7: User17 I call lies, korean input for instance is still a pita (imo at least)
User14: the gnome-kr dudes have some cool stuff for that
User7: User14 oh?
User14: you'll have to find an interdimensional wormhole
User17: User7 i'll admit, i haven't tried korean :)
User7: brilliant!
User17: there are *two* amharic input methods
User17: well, that's impressive to me :)
User7: When I went to try asian input I was overwhelmed by the bazillion IMs and even moreso by the fact that they have interfaces for each other
User17: User7 yeah, but it's sort of necessary
User17: for japanese at least, every one of those has a population that love it and won't use anything else :)
User11: But we know better
User7: It would be infinitely cool if gnome just had an abstraction that could handle korean/whatever
User14: User7 http://gnome.or.kr/wiki/GnomeKoreaProjects
User17: japanese kids may have had nintendo games 6 months before us but they are paying for their high-techedness by having to deal with 4 widely incompatible encoding schemes and supporting a dozen input methods :)
User17: User7 everyone agrees on that one
User17: User7 every one also agrees that their system is the correct umbrella under which to unify
User7: User14 thanks for the link
* jdub loves the korean dictionary program -> 'gdick'
User15: what does 302 mean from apache?
User13: heh
User13: User14 now all you need is for someone to adopt it
User13: User14 they can be the gdickfoster
User12: redirect
User15: yeah - figured that out... grumble
User17: User15 glad to hear the cds went over well :)
User15: User17 yeah - went over pretty well
User15: bdale took some back to colorado with him, will be handing one to each of Martin Fink's staff on tuesday
User17: User15 nobody riled by the "peanut smuggling"? :)
User17: wednesday i should be able to drop off a whole bunch at the NYLUG meeting
User15: peanut smuggling???
* jdub will hopefully have CDs before SLUG at the end of the month
User17: User15 it was a comment kinnison made
User17: User14 you don't have them already?
User14: no
User14: i ordered about 200 for slug with my address
User15: User17 didn't see kinnison's comment
User17: User15 i'm assuming it a was reference to nipples :)
User15: ah
User15: no complaints from that brayjason@example.net.
User1: mako : peanut smuggling ? :)
User17: evidently, it's a pretty common term
User17: (among some circles)
User15: right
User12: nuts ?
User15: well..  gotta go take a break from typing for a bit... bbl.
User17: User14 so it looks like i will be making it down this conference in veracruz to talk up ubuntu
User14: User17 oooh, nice!
User17: User14 there's a day devoted to nothing but randall schwartz, maddog, rms, and me talking about ubuntu
User17: !!
User11: User17 You're an open source celebrity
User11: Make sure you tell rms that
User14: i hope the "me talking about ubuntu" is in virtual parentheses :)
User17: User14 seriously, a clerical error
User17: User14 equal billing even
User14: rawk!
User11: Heh
User14: dude, how many cds do you have? :)
User17: User14 ~400
User17: it won't last
User11: You're obviously almost as famous as tbm
User17: User11 at LSM 1.5 years ago, someone came up to tbm and i asked for my autograph
User17: User11 tbm was like "do you know what he is?", they say 'yes', then "do you know what i am?" :)
User17: User11 he was riled
User11: Something like that happened as FISL
User17: User11 good :)
User11: We were having lunch and some leading south american open source guy came up
User11: Martin started introducing himself, then he looked at martin's nametag and said that he'd got the wrong person
User11: Then started talking to me...
User17: haha
User12: heh. you da man.
User17: he really doesn't like that :)
* daniels giggles.
User17: User14 yeah, i've been talking the gulev organizer about ubuntu back and forth for a couple months now.. it's paid off i guess :)
User17: User14 of course, the fact that he really likes our work doesn't hurt :)
User14: the only thing that really shits me about reading CJK screenshots and pages is that ASSTASTICALLY ugly serif they're used to, it drives me up the wall
User18: User14 you mean latin text on CJK pages having ugly serifs
User18: User14 ?
User14: yeah
User18: mmm, that sucks
User14: there's like this classically CJK ugly ass filler font
User18: you can avoid it, though
User18: it's as simple as using the lang attribute correctly
User14: heh
User18: seriously
User18: most people just say the whole page is in Japanese, and then you get the ugly filler font
User14: they just shouldn't put filler characters in
User14: bastards
User14: it offends my eyes
User14: hrm
User14: fell into mjg59 mode for a minute there
User18: I wonder if everybody in Asia thinks Western Latin fonts are ugly
User14: "look at those sans serifs! how do they read them? each letter is like a typographical non sequitur! it's criminal!"
User18: I bet that's just how it is
User14: When doing diversions, does the 'divertor' package have to depend on the 'divertee' package?
User19: morning guys
User20: hello :)
User21: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=19255#post19255
* fubarpa is new around here
User21: fubara:
User21: fubara: what field are u working on?
User20: I'm actually trying to figure out where I'd fit in.  I want to help :)
User21: fubara: are u good a C++?
User20: heh, that's one language I'm not well-versed in
User21: fubara: we need more testers
User21: fubara: please report all bugs related to GNOME to us
User20: Well, I just upgraded to the development version
User20: but, I'm using KDE as my main desktop right now
User21: fubara: then it's bit hard, b/c we don't support KDE, we already made up our mind, GNOME is the only desktop on Ubuntu
User21: fubara: we don't want to create a distro that mixed up 2 wm
User21: fubara: initially, I used KDE but then KDE 's getting heavier and messier, so I use GNOME for its simplicity, slim and pro GUI
User13: guys. kde vs gnome. offtopic here. somewhere else.
User13: (please)
User20: no prob.  I can test Gnome out too :)
User20: Not tryin to start a desktop war...  just wanna be helpful :)
User21: fubara: cool,
User21: fubara: I think u should play around with GNOME applet, try to test it with all possible cases
User21: fubara: and report all the bugs to us, make sure u update to latest GNOME 2.9.1 provided by our respository
User20: I just ran dist-update against hoary repositories...  I should be ok, I think unless it just updated again
User21: User13 are we allowed to include restricted-kernel and nvidia driver along?
User20: any laptop team members around? :)
User19: User2 i wonder how ubuntu-meta will behave on new archs...
User19: hey Manoj
User19: User22 decided to join the dark side?
User22: just checking out the competition
User2: User19 all that is necessary is to update the control file and the 'update' script
User2: User22 that's not a word we like to use, in relation to Debian at least ;-)
User19: User22 there is no competition
User22: heck, we seem to be losing users (as seen on p.d.o) to ubuntu all the time ;-)
User19: where do you see it on p.d.o?
User22: Tollef Fog Heen today
User22: and debianplant had a whole slew
User19: you mean planet.d.n ?
User22: planet.debian.org
User19: p.d.o can also be people.d.o.. you know :P
User2: or packages
User19: or pr0n.debian.org :P
User19: hmmm
User19: i am impressed
User19: Files:
User19: fbfa4592b55df290560f15a8557ede60 2050 base optional ubuntu-base_0.7_sparc.deb
User19: eab4727f301eb5f122aea34ec044484b 2056 base optional ubuntu-desktop_0.7_sparc.deb
User19: i wonder what's in there :)
User19: done
User19: Can't open base-sparc: No such file or directory.
User19: Can't open desktop-sparc: No such file or directory.
User19: touch build-stamp
User19: this should fail
User19: User15 just for curiosity.. how do you handle dep-wait in phase1?
User19: i got a bunch of packages in that state because they clearly build-dep on stuff that we have in ubuntu only
User15: User19 poorly
User19: should i wait phase1 to complete, create a phase 1.5 to build this packages and than run phase2?
User19: or should i just build them in phase2?
User19: i mean.. this is almost just a test run, considering that if the port becomes official, all this work needs to be redone at the dc
User15: User19 it's really a matter of iteration over things until you can use debs that you built to build everything...
User15: right - if it becomes official, we start with your debs, build twice,and upload the second results.
User15: what I did with ia64, for example:
User15: stage 0 == debian sid (at the time)
User15: stage 1 = build with debs pointed at stage 0
User19: yes.. i got that
User19: i am at your stage0 now..
User19: building ubuntu packages using debian sid of this days
User15: during stage1, I have preferences taht make stage1 pin 1500, stage 0 at 50
User19: (considering i am not building warty)
User15: scratch that
User19: i didn't think about pinning.. good point
User15: stage 0 (debian) gets used to build stage1 as best we can. Things that don't build are sad.
User15: stage1 then gets used to iterate over itself for a bit
User15: that is, the stage 0 debs are removed from the cache, and stage0 is removed from sources.list, and replaced with stage1
User15: then you build for a bit.
User19: yup.. i got all of that
User15: the actual goal is "anything that is a build-dep or a dep of a build-dep in main"
User19: basically i keep reiterating until sid is out of the way
User19: and i can build everything from stageX
User15: then once you run out of that, then you use stage1 debs and build everythign one more time
User15: producing golden stage2
User15: if any cheating was needed to get .debs into existance, then you need to have stage N+1
User15: right.
User19: until now.. no cheating
User15: really?  how did you build cyrus-sasl2?
User19: i got the process clear in my mind
User15: (which happens to be ftbfs right now...)
User19: it just builded fine
User15: really?
User15: maybe they fixed the dependencies then
User15: that'd rock
User19: Log for successful build of cyrus-sasl2_2.1.19-1.5 (dist=hoary)
User15: postgresql-dev: Depends: libkrb5-dev but it is not going to be installed
User15: must have old Depends then.. :-)
User19: i still didn't build postgre
User15: (build-deps on something that Depends on a pkg that conflicts with libkrb5-dev...
User19: i am at about 50% of the archive
User19: i have 6 real FTBFS
User19: and 10 dep-wait ubuntu for ubuntu
User15: 50% of main, I assume?
User19: yes
User19: i am not building universe
User19: i simply don't have the processing power
User19: User15 talking about universe instead.. given that we don't support it...
User15: right
User19: one or two build run on top of a real ubuntu main should be sufficient.. i guess
User19: we can be a bit more "dirty" in it...
User19: i don't mind reiterating main 20 times if needed
User19: but universe is just too big for one sparc only
User15: yeah - properly speaking, one should really handle dep-waits while doing the iteration - I just retried everything instead. :-)
User19: ehehe
User19: i can't efford that much processing power
User19: sparc isn't the fastest processor in the world
User15: then again, ia64 isn't that slow...
User19: and i don't have access to an E10k anymore
User19: exactly
User19: otherwise spawning 28 istances of buildd would have made my life so much easier :P
User19: 28 to 32...
User15: either one is a bunch:-)
User19: oh yeah
* lamont_r just spent a little bit trying to figure out why there were 108 packages 'Building' on ia64...
User19: too bad that it needs 5 x 220 tri-phase power cable for approx 4.5KW
User15: then I remembered that I have buildd taking 30 at a time...
User15: 18 dangling packages is understandable/semi-OK.
User15: that's only 20Amps.. :-)
User19: i am using the default config of taking 10 at a time
User15: and 1MWh every 3 days. :-)
User19: ehehhe
User19: i still remember when i turned it on
User15: it's more a function of how much you smack the wanna-build machine... With 12 buildd's, and my logs scripts, etc...  it's pretty common that we collide.
User19: our UPS registered a 50% usage more :-)
User15: so fewer trips is better.
User19: going down from 40 minutes to 20 minutes autonomy
User15: ouch
User19: doesn't wanna-build handle collisions?
User15: User19 I also taught the buildd to understand $max_build_percent (only take this percent - default == 100) of the needs-build brayjason@example.net.
User15: yeah - it blocks the process trying to get to the db until the other one is done.
User15: which sucks
User19: hmmm i am not sure i understand
User15: so grabbing more means I block less often, esp since most of the block potential is the ssh setup time...
User19: if you tell to buildd1 to take 10 pkgs
User15: 'Database is locked by buildd, please wait'.
User19: buildd2 can take the next 10
User15: taht takes a while to finish. Time where I'm not doing anything but waiting.
User15: so less of them is better.
User19: well increasing the granularity to one?
User19: grabbing one package at a time?
User15: when there are only 3 packages in Needs-Build, I'd like them to go one at a time, rather than having one machine grab foo, xorg, and baz
User15: but when there are 3000 needs-build packages, I want to snarf lots of them at a time
User19: why do you like to make this difference?
User19: if you have resources just use them...
User19: and parallelize..
User15: the bulk of the wanna-build --take time is spent setting up - actually marking them taken doesn't take very log at all, once you get everything ready and grab the lock...
User15: taking 1 package at a time when there are 3000 means we spend a large chunk of the package build time (for most packages) in doing the --take
User19: so basically you save that few seconds accessing wb db and that's it
User15: taking 10 packages at a time when there are only 3 to build means that one buildd grabs them all, and the other 2 sit idle.
User19: yes i understand that
User15: few seconds per package, times 3000 packages.
User19: gotcha
User15: and it screws up the semi-timed stats dumping... which isn't nice.. :-)
User15: that is, the dump starts in time to usually be done before the rsync happens.
User15: it goes in a different directory and gets snapped over at once, so it's not terrible, but it's still nice to have that finish before its next iteration starts... :-)
User19: now you lost me...
User19: but i guess i am not affected by this problem yet :)
User6: lamont_r : Can you beg elmo/neuro for commit access to Debian's wanna-build CVS?
User15: User6 why?
User6: lamont_r : That take more/less depending on queue length feature is something we want in m68k, for obvious reasons (and, in fact, some of us run a patched buildd that does that already)
User15: the changes that make any sense for Debian are getting pushed back
User6: m68k feels the "one buildd took too many packages at once" thing much worse.
User15: ah, I'll work some more on making that one happen then
* lamont_r is happy to work it through as a discussion between neuro/elmo/me, and let one of them commit.
User6: <nod>
User6: I wish neuro was a bit less protective of w-b's source, but whatever.
User6: We have a few patches that float around the m68k buildds that he refuses to implement, so we keep re-patching on every release.
User15: sigh.  I go out of town for a weekend, and wind up with 62 build logs in main that I need to do something with tomorrow...
User6: (Simple things, like the build/current symlink)
User15: hopefully most of them are fixed already. :-)
User15: build/current symlink?
User6: Yeah.  Many of the m68k buildds run a buildd that marks the current building log with a symlink in build/
User6: Makes more sense than buildd-vlog
* lamont_r just uses buildd-vlog
User6: Much faster to tail build/current
User6: (Every CPU cycle counts on slow arches, what can I say?)
User15: heh
User15: how painful is d-i on m68k, anyway?
User6: smarenka's buildd also checks for a EXIT-AFTER-BUILD (or sometihng like that) stamp too, so he can just touch that and go away, knowing the buildd will kill itself when the current build is done.
User19: User15 less than you think probably
User6: That's kinda handy for chroot maintenance.
User6: d-i on m68k is decent, except on lowmem machines.
User6: But lowmem sucks in general.
User15: touch ~buildd/EXIT-DAEMON-PLEASE
User6: yeah, that.
User6: Has that made it upstream?
User15: yep
User15: some time ago
User6: Ahh.  He must have kept pushing. :)
User15: if you have a set of diff's you want to toss me, I could certainly look at which ones I'd be willing to care about and push on...
User6: I'll talk to Stephen and see if he has anything pending (other than build/current, which we've been told won't go in..)
User15: 'k
* lamont_r decides that it's proably bed time here.
User6: I suppose I should finally update a4000t to mainline (and re-patch for build/current)
User15: night all
User19: nithg lamont
User6: 'Night.
User15: pitti around?
User15: nm.  sleep
* sid77 ciao
User19: guys.. what did you do to gdm?
User19: in multihead now, it scales to fit the screen
User19: that it is really unconfortable with 2 heads
User19: since the username and password are exactly in the middle (across the 2 screens)
User23: now I know why there's gdm themes with the username/password box off to one side
User14: User17
User14: I read in Ubuntu traffic #11 that you wanted to make sure Hoary includes
User14: the Indic fonts Red Hat recently released.  I just wanted to let you know
User14: they will be included in the next version of Debians ttf-indic-fonts
User14: package which I will be uploading shortly.
User14:
User14: excellent!
User14: (that was Jaldhar H. Vyas)
User14: When doing diversions, does the 'divertor' package have to depend on the 'divertee' package?
User3: User14 did you see my prod about libuser's cvs repo the other day?
User14: User3 nup
User3: it has a CVS repo, documented in the README file or something.  We might want to work off that rather than fooling around with SRPMS.
User14: bonus
User3: they might have an arch mirror too; worth brayjason@example.net.
User19: Xdmx is sooooo rad!
User19: User3 should we give a shot to the new nvidia drivers?
User3: User19 I'm totally overworked until friday in about 1.5 weeks -- term project (3/4 of my workload this semester) to be handed in, so I can't do much.
User19: ok
User24: morning
User9: Morning all!
User9: Morning seb128_
User9: User30 Thanks for your explanation and patch wrt OO.o :-)
User25: hello
User4: User14 divertor/divertee> no, dpkg-divert just records the diversion if the divertee isn't installed, and it'll still process the diversion properly if the divertee is installed later
User14: thanks
User4: User14 think of a diversion as an instruction to dpkg to apply a mapping to its filesystem namespace
User14: aha
User4: (although using the --rename option means it has some effects on the current filesystem too, of course)
User19: User26 hey
User19: User26 i think the last version of gdm is bong
User26: "bong" ?
User19: if you have a dualhead setup running xinerama
User19: bong = on crack
User23: User26 it's jdubian
User26: yeah, I know, but I need details :)
User19: User26 before it was showing the login/background on one screen
User19: User26 now it expands to both of them
* pasc waits for mako to blog about jdubian, the language of the ubuntish
User19: leaving the login/password prompt right in between the 2 screens
User19: User26 if you want i can show you a pic
User26: no, I picture the problem without any problem :)
* seb128 seachs on bugzilla.g.o
User27: "being bong" can either be good or bad, depending on the context, right?
User19: afaik it's only bad
User26: I should get a dualhead setup, it could be useful for some bugs
User23: it's also an exclamation
User19: but that's some kind of aussie dialect from Melbroune
User19: melbourne even
User23: User19 it's only jdub, and those who hang around him
* fabbione rm bong from dict
User27: there was a german guy who used 'tutti' as synonym for 'cool' when I was living in Bordeaux. By the time we left, all the spanish and english people thought it was a regular german word and used it as well
User19: ehhehe
User13: User19 eh, jdub is from Sydney
User14: * Add udev-udeb, for use in the installer.
User14: User4 ^ BLING-BLING-BLING!
User4: hotplug-udeb and rootskel still to come before it stands a chance of working
User4: oh, and busybox-cvs
User6: pasc "What's a jdubian?"
User26: User6 jdub-ian
User6: seb128 : I know.
User26: so what's the question ?
User6: seb128 : It was a reference.
User6: Try pronouncing it "jdoobian"
User6: Then think of Chasing Amy.
User6: And it all comes together.
User27: not for me, but oh well
User6: Oh well indeed. :)
* daniels high-fives infinity.
User28: o everyone
User26: hi Mitario
User4: User15 ooh, we have ia64 binaries?
User4: GO T-BONE AND LAMONT
User19: User4 zlib1g_1.2.2-3ubuntu1_sparc.deb
User19: they are on the way too :P
User16: hello I was thinking of creating a wiki for qemu
User16: since it is a vmware alternatife
User16: and makes it possible to run wine onn ppc
User16: but what would be a good wiki name for this?
User29: hi
User16: HowtoVM or HowtoQemu?
User16: or HowtoFreeVM
User30: User9 no probs, sorry you wasted some time on that patch
User9: User30 no reason to excuse, it was my own fault :-)
User9: User30 however, it's nice that the solution is so easy
User9: User30 the mozilla stuff is much more complicated, there are source packages for each and every language
User31: night, all
User9: User30 I already talked a bit with _rene_, he seemed open to adopt the idea for Debian's OO.o, too
User9: User30 what do you think about that?
User9: User30 a similar concept would be nice for Debian, too
User30: User9 the idea for the additional Depends?  Yes, I'm fine with that - I think it is a very good idea
User9: User30 well, the language pack support in General
User30: User9 for all packages in Debian?  The idea is nice, but it maybe doesn't scale easily for the whole of Debian, since there are many more packages and the lanugage packs could get large.  Maybe they could be done by section/priority
User14: User27 trying out your multisync debs with my t630 + evolution...
User13: User14 how's bluetooth on your 630?
User13: my k700i has a nasty habit of hard locking
User32: my t630 works mostly fine with bluetooth
User32: modulo some problems if hidd is on in a certain mode
User13: hm
User13: what sort of mode?
User13: can it be solved by just killing hidd?
User32: the bluetooth connection fails in that case, no lockups
User32: that solves it.. you can also run hidd with an option, but i always forget it
User14: User13 seems ok so far, haven't used it a heck of a lot
User29: anyone can help me with postfix ???
User13: User14 bong
User13: User32 ah
User13: boom.
User13: when sending a file, hangs
User13: Nov 16 13:06:25 catsby hcid[25818] : link_key_request (sba=00:20:E0:77:CD:7C, dba=00:0E:07:0E:C9:80)
User31: onal antham
User9: User30 something like the "German language" task that existed once
User32: User13 that's a normal message
User13: User32 yes, but my phone hanging at that point is abnormal :)
User32: true :)
User13: at the exact point that gets printed to the log, my phone hangs, and I have to take the battery out and put it back in
User25: grrrrrrrrr, dsl hangup ... did you get what I was saying ?
User25: anybody replied
User25: ?
User13: bizzare, works now
User13: my bluetooth
User4: User8 preemptively added hotplug-udeb and udev-udeb to the installer seed for you
User8: User4 cheers
User4: when does Keybuk's merge-o-matic run?
User4: in fact it looks like the merge-o-matic has just totally forgotten about rootskel
User8: odd - it's definitely in the list of "to be merged" I feed his m erge-o-matic
User28: mvo_, here? :)
User33: hi Mitario
User33: yes
User28: mvo_, any word? :)
* Mitario is boring is ass of
User30: User9 it still exists
User33: User28 sorry, not yet
User4: cjwatson@rookery:~$ ls ~scott/public_html/ongoing-merge/rootskel
User4: Segmentation fault
User4: I love exec-shield
User28: mvo_, ok, np
User8: meh, that'll go away in the next couple of days
User14: User11 the kernel update on your archive - with new stuff, or just rebuilt?
User4: ok, well, rootskel merged manually
User11: User14 Mm?
User11: User14 I think it's just the one you've got
User14: ok
User14: did you sort out the patch loss?
User28: mdz, here?
User9: User28 he is on vacation until next Sunday
User28: ah, ok, thanks
User9: User28 that is, the following Sunday (Nov 21)
User28: yeah ok
User28: i'm wondering if update-manager or some metadata package could be uploaded to warty-security when hoary comes out
User28: same way as the calendar is uploaded now
User28: mvo__, hi :)
User34: hi
User14: User28 that wouldn't make it run on their desktop by default though
User28: jdub, true
User34: I'm getting new network today, looks like it' a bit unstable :)
User9: User34 oh, the number of underscores grows... :-)
User28: or anyways maybe in the next distro release
User28: jdub, when the release after hoary comes out
User14: oh, release metadata?
User28: yes
User14: that's probably something we can do remotely
User28: yeah, also tought about that
User14: rather than update something on-disk
User28: hmhm
User28: i wonder how we could do that
User28: just put a file somewhere which updates everytime we release?
User14: did you see keybuk's "sources.list gui" thing?
User28: jdub, yep :) that one's in upgrade-manager already :)
User14: right
User28: in my local source repository thatis
User28: not yet in the package
User14: User28 we should look into gnome-app-install/upgrade-manager integration
User14: is there a recent hoary .deb i can try?
User14: hey martink
User28: update-manager is in hoary yeah
User14: oh, update-manager
User14: ok
User35: hey jdub
User28: yeah, sorry, still configused with upgrade-notifier and update-manager :)
User36: Hi, I was wondering how to help with maintaining packages in ubuntu, what is the procedure, like I would like to have abiword to be up to date on the latest stable release
User28: mwh_, conincidence we where just talking about the update stuff, the wiki package http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PackageManagement can provide you some info
User36: ahh great
User36: is there something like gnome lov day ie ubuntu love day, where new developers/maintainers can learn and start contributing?
User14: User36 there will be soon :)
User36: User14 super
User28: hmm, cool :)
User11: User14 Yeah, I managed to rebuild the tree
User28: gtg be back soon
User4: User15 does Herbert know to sort out kernel packages for ia64?
User27: User14 sweet, let me know how it goes
User36: when creating packages for ubuntu is it then custom to first create a debian package and then a ubuntu package or?
User4: it makes some things easier if you go about it that way
User36: please explain what is easier?
User36: im on ground zero you see
User4: well, we merge with Debian regularly
User4: the bigger the patch we accumulate against whatever Debian has, the more complicated merging becomes
User4: so it's in our own interests to feed as much back to Debian as possible
User36: ok
User36: so for example I would like to upgrade xchat to a newer version, what would you recomend that I do?
User36: maybe I should contact the maintainer first I guess
User36: I think I should find out how to get the source for the build as well to see how it works
User36: is there a guide somewhere on howto build debian packages og get into doing it
User4: www.debian.org/doc/
User36: my background is from lfs, so basically I just built stuff from src with the minimum changes
User27: User36 do you want to update xchat for your own purposes or for the community in general?
User4: or possibly /devel/ actually
User4: read the new maintainer's guide
User36: for the community
User4: User36 you're aware that there's a newer version in hoary?
User4: xchat | 2.0.8-2ubuntu1 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
User4: xchat | 2.4.0-0.2ubuntu1 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
User36: I can always just build the stuff from src for myself, but I think its a waste of time if others can use the stuff
User36: User4 no I didnt
User36: User4 anyways I would like to upgrade the stuff in warty, when I shift to hoary I would like to help there
User27: User36 warty is not being upgraded
User27: it's released
User36: User27 oh, why?
User4: we don't change stable releases
User4: that's what "stable" means
User36: ok I need to look at it that way then ;)
User36: then its only security things which get pushed out for stable?
User4: yes
User36: I think its a bit sad that new features are not pushed out :( but I guess thats how it is
User27: they are pushed out every 6 months
User4: you can't create a stable operating system if you keep changing it; it's just a project management impossibility
User36: yes, like what about if a translation is broken, its not security but its an error, are they pushed out as well on a stable release?
User4: very severe bugs may be fixed in warty-updates
User36: ok
User4: but with great care, and new upstream versions aren't the sort of thing that typically qualify
User36: I think what I miss is something in beetween warty and hoary, like a version which tracks upstream stable versions
User14: User36 that's hoary.
User36: realy, I thought hoary was tracking development versions, but its not?
User36: I should realy check out hoary some more I guess ;)
User12: User11 ping
User36: User14 I guess its there where I should apply my service then
User14: User36 hoary is the development branch of *ubuntu*
User14: User36 but the only in-development software we track in the distro's development branch is gnome
User14: (in general)
User36: yes I know
User36: ahh yes
User36: thats what I mean, I would realy love a distro in between which only tracked upstream stable packages, ie gnome 2.8.[1,2,3,4]  ...
User36: and other software ofcourse
User27: you mean point releases
User14: for the most part, that's true for hoary
User36: yes
User14: you simply can't do that in a stable distribution release
User14: you can always use sid
User36: User14 I see what you mean, anyways thats my point I would like to see something like, stable, stable-upstream and developement
User27: User36 maintain your own branch
User4: we've discussed it, but the merging effort means it isn't feasible until we have better infrastructure for merging
User14: User36 stable-upstream == debian sid
User14: for the most part
User36: aha
User14: stable-upstream + gnome platform/desktop development branch == ubuntu development branch
User14: not a huge difference
User14: but neither distro is "stable" (not talking about
User14: "robust")
User36: ok, btw what is the status on mono, will it be included at some point in ubuntu?
User14: User36 it's in universe atm
User36: yes I noticed
User14: User36 still undecided wrt mono in main
User27: you can't dodge it forever :)
User12: just watch him :)
User37: arg..!
User37: can someone here send me file libGl.so.1.2 in /usr/lib? (while I play around with libgtk, I just broke this file and too lazy to redownload all thing)
User38: ahoy..
* Kamion tries once again to add substitution variables to germinate's seed syntax
User8: User4 dude, could you maybe work out why it's so br0ken ATM instead?
User4: the scary bit is that say kernel-image-${Kernel-Version} needs to be able to expand out into multiple packages in order to be useful for powerpc kernel udebs
User4: mm, I guess, it's been working fine for me
User4: will look after lunch
User8: I can give you my input files, if that helps
User37: User4 can u PLS send me libGL.so.1.2?
* chrisa wonders how you 'break' a library
User39: User7 dd if=/dev/urandom of=/lib/libdb.so.3 seek=39921 count=7222 size=1
User39: User7 or do you have a better idea? :)
User40: unlink?
User7: User39 Without it being intentional (since root is required), no
User39: User40 well, you won't exactly have a _broken_ library around then..
User7: If you wanted to really break it you could replace some of the symbols with your own :D
User40: maswan, yes.
User40: or use LD_PRELOAD to "break" the library without touch it too much.
User27: is LUFS the same as FUSE?
User27: apparently not
User30: how do I mark an Ubuntu bug as a duplicate of a Debian bug# ?  It's been incorrectly forwarded upstream (#1903)
User13: User30 put 'debXXXXXX' in the also known as field
User30: User13 where do I find that?
User13: should be right at the top
User30: ah, alias.  thanks
User13: ah, right
User30: still UPSTREAM status?
User13: yeah
User30: even though it isn't OOo upstream, it's deb upstream
User13: mmm
User27: middlestream, you mean
User30: heh, yeah
User16: how can I find back a bugreport that I did
User16: but got closed
User16: I have to reopen it
User17: is there a written offer for source in the CDs somewhere?
User17: it's a GPL compliance issue someone at FSFe who wants to distribute CDs is asking about
User11: User17 There doesn't need to be - they're accompanied by the source on the FTP servers
User17: User11 it does when we distribute binary old cds
User17: User11 ergh. binary only
User11: User17 It does for the CDs that are posted
User11: It doesn't for CDs that are downloaded
User17: User11 right. i'm talking about the cds we're pressing and sending
User17: User11 but very often, people include the written offer in a file on the cd
User17: that's what lnx-bbc does
User4: User37 no, you can fetch it from the archive
User9: User32 I just wrote a dev.d script for automatic unmounting
User9: User32 indeed it works far better than with hal
User9: User32 multiple devices are all unmounted, hal sometimes left some mounted
User32: User9 dude cool :)
User9: User32 it's actually trivial
User32: that's what i expected
User4: User8 assuming this is the problem that you end up with ash in main, I can't reproduce with hoary main+restricted+universe+multiverse Packages/Sources I'm afraid; can you point me to your input files?
User41: Technical Board meeting in 15 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting.
User4: User15 "Buildd separation of supported/unsupported" in https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals: that's done, isn't it?
User4: User41 I need to go out for a bit, so I'll miss the start of the tech board meeting; I should be along later
User41: User4 I'll defer the merge discussion until you're back then ... though I doubt it'll be too long a meeting as mdz is away
User2: I'm actually lurking about for a bit more
User41: oh, right :)
User41: do you want to chair it then? :)
User2: I'll be around for only 5-10 minutes more
User2: the agenda seems to have some substance to it, so surely the meeting will last longer than that
User2: unless you guys want to postpone it
User41: nope, might as well plough through it
User41: Technical Board meeting on #ubuntu-meeting now.
User15: User4 yes
User15: User4 that is, yes the buildd separation is done.  Dunno about herbert/ia64 - someone probably needs to tell him...
User19: User15 i will need you to kick a manual xorg build on ia64 and send me the logs + MANIFEST.ia64 and MANIFEST.ia64.new
User19: User15 otherwise it will be a permanent FTBFS
User15: User19 ok
User19: User15 if you can kick hppa too, that would help Debian in a few weeks from now ;)
User15: User19 I need to actually get my hppa box running again, now that I have good hardware...
User19: User15 that sounds like a good plan
User19: :-)
User8: there's an ia64 port box - once we have enough to debootstrap, I can create hoary chroots
User19: User8 thanks, but if i can upload a fixed X before the buildd arrives to xorg....
User19: it will make lamont life simpler
User19: and fixing the manifest file is relatively simple
User8: yes, well, I need to do it anyway - I was just saying
User8: remember there is life outside x.org :P
User19: eheh cool..
User19: User8 UH really?? where??
User19: here everything has a X on it
User27: User19 it's called "pasta"
User19: pasta can be shaped as X
User27: what about your gf?
User27: hmm, two x chromosomes
User19: she can take that position too
User19: :P
User15: User19 btw, could you send me the log for your sucessful sparc cyrus-sasl2 build?
User19: User15 sure
User15: thanks
User19: on the way
User15: vidmode.cpp:19:38: X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h: No such file or directory
User15: tehe
User15: (dvr_3.2-5)
User19: hmm
User19: i don't think i am there yet :-)
User15: may just be missing build-deps
User15: it's universe
User19: ahh
User19: easily
User13: libxxf86vm-dev
User13: this is the xlibs-static-{dev,pic} aftermath
User15: ah, that makes sense
User15: will xorg hit debian sometime soon?
User13: don't ask me
User19: User15 no idea...
User19: we want it in experimental first
User15: ah, ok
User19: for sure it will never hit sid before sarge is out
User13: (at the request of the release team)
User42: good morning
User42: I have issues with a sarge->hoary upgrade.. is that on topic here ?
User42: some xfree86 stuff seemed to be left over
User42: and x session doesn't startup a window manager
User4: User42 did you follow http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WartyUpgradeNotes?
User42: yes
User4: which xfree86 stuff are we talking about here?
User4: this is more on-topic on #ubuntu, btw
User42: xorg
User42: I can take it there, I wasn't sure
User42: oh.. /etc/X11/X was left pointing to nonexistent XFree86
User42: and xfree scripts left in /etc/X11/Xsessino.d
User42: can't quite see what's stopping session startup
User4: you do have xserver-xorg installed?
User42: yes
User4: could you file a bug about the upgrade problem, then? unless daniels or fabbione show up to contradict me
User13: (no, looks like a bug to me)
User42: ok will do
User42: a
User42: urgh.. p 2 6 6
User42: oops.. thx all
User4: User8 ping re those germinate input files?
User15: hrm...  apache build-dep's figlet, which is universe... can we kill apache now? :-)
User13: User15 fixed in debian
User8: User4 yeah, sorry, getting
User15: fixed how?
User13: User15 well, it doesn't echo GO MOTHERFUCKER | figlet, anymore
User15: lol
User13: (seriously)
User15: literally?
User13: yes
User15: WTF?
User8: User4 people.ubuntu.com/~james/germinate-input/
User8: kamion: I run germinate on those in turn, and concatenate the results
User19: User13 that was only on i386 :-)
User19: anyway
* fabbione &
User8: ARGH
User8: kamion: don't bother
User8: I just realised what it is ... ia64...
User8: it got auto added to the list of arches I run germinate on and shouldn't have
User8: sorry
User4: ah, I see
User4: how did that cause ash to get added?
User4: no dash yet?
User8: right..
User8: well, up until like, last night, no anything except arch: all :)
User4: oh, and ash is arch: all :-)
User4: User8 might wanna tla update germinate anyway, I added that substitution variable thing
User13: ash is arch: all?
User4: it's a transitional package to dash
User13: ahr
User4: User8 do you care about the specific format of the *.sources germinate output files? specifically, would anything break if the "IPv6 status" column became optional?
* lamont_r goes to get breakfast, then put stuff away and drive back to the bay area...  will be offline for a bit in a bit.
User26: User9 you've worked on the OO.o merge, right ?
User9: User26 no, that was doko
User4: User8 I'm kind of concerned about the way running germinate depends on fabbione's ADSL being up
User9: User26 I only sent him the language-pack patch
User26: ok, sorry for the noise so :)
User26: User24 here ?
User9: no worries :-)
User24: User26 a moment, please ...
User26: User24 no problem, just wondering why OO.o 1.1.2 and not 1.1.3 ...
User24: User26 did it as well, but the differences in the patches are minor. and AFAIK haggai is doing the OOo 1.1.3 work for hoary.
User8: kamion: all I tend to care about is that the package name is the first column
User26: User24 ok, I was just wondering, 1.1.3 has some nice improvements
User30: User24 uh, I didn't say that yet.  I don't know how much extra spare time I'll need for that
User4: User8 right, I think I'll make the IPv6 stuff only get added if you do germinate.py -i
User24: seb128, User30 ok, then I'll merge it again with the next release to experimental. when will that be?
User9: User32 just uploaded a new hal with the dev.d script
User9: User32 if you merge the stuff, please pay attention to the ubuntu-storage-policy patch
User32: hehe, i just downloaded -1ubuntu5
User30: User24 we haven't got an ETA yet, we're both busy with work on 2.0
User9: User32 no, the recent version is -1ubuntu6
User32: yeah, i downloaded the previous version like 10 minutes ago
User43: bbiab
User9: User32 people.ubuntulinux.org/~pitti/
User9: User32 I put ubuntu6 there
User32: thanks
User28: lolo
User9: User32 it was accepted, so it should appear on archive.u.o soon anyway
User26: what's the target for an upload in warty ?
User26: I want to fix #3687
User9: User26 security upload?
User26: User9 no, bug fix upload (missing file in the package)
User9: User26 oh, something like proposed-updates; I thought we don't do this in general?
User26: dunno, I've not uploaded anything in warty since the release
User9: User26 sorry, I don't now. maybe ask elmo?
User26: I've asked on the chan, anybody knowing is free to reply :)
User9: User26 mdz talked about "warty-updates"
User26: User9 that's why I ask :)
User26: User8 ping ?
User41: there's warty-updates, but we never told anyone about it, so it's pretty pointless to upload to it </broken record> :p
User26: ah ah
User27: so, somebody (the guy who asked about multisync packages earlier this month) asked for amd64 packages of those multisync .debs I did. I guess he can't just install the i386 ones, right?
User15: User27 need amd64
User27: he needs amd64 .debs, you mean?
User15: User27 in the perfect world, there would be 32 bit libs on amd64 as well, and then you could get away with that better....
User15: yes
User27: okie
User27: well, I guess I'll wait till somebody else tells me they actually work before I start to worry about that
User15: gnupg build-depends mail-transport-agent?  le huh?
User27: * debian/control (Build-Depends): add mail-transport-agent to ensure
User27: gpgkeys_mailto is built.
User9: User17 here?
User9: User26 can you care for dropping mozilla-dev from the build-deps of epiphany-extensions?
User26: User9 as said during the meeting I'm going to do this yes, you want this right now ?
User9: User26 no, it's not that urgent
User26: ok, I'll do it after dinner
User9: User26 I just wanted to ensure that it is possible
User9: User26 oh, no hurry
User9: User26 do you know about swfdec? It's currently the only other package that b-deps on mozilla
User26: oh yes, no problem, I've already rebuilt epiphany-browser with firefox
User26: no, dunno for swfdec
User9: User26 can you try wether it works with m-f-dev as well?
User26: that's on my list too yes
User9: okay, thanks a lot
User26: np
User9: User26 I just checked again, it's only these two packages
User26: ok, nice
User44: seb128
User26: ?
User44: morning
User8: sen?
User26: evening
User44: lol
User44: User26 do u use RealPlayer for Unix?
User26: no
User44: User26 bad luck
User26: User8 "sen?" ? :)
User44: User26 it runs under Sarge not Ubuntu
User26: User8
User26: what's the target for an upload in warty ?
User26: I want to fix #3687
User4: User44 please keep support questions to #ubuntu
User8: User26 tab completion gone arwy
User8: (err, or whatever the word is)
User44: User4 it's seems to me development issue than support issue
User13: User8 (awry)
User8: User26 'warty-updates'
User4: User44 we can't have this channel being used for routine bug reporting, or we wouldn't be able to get anything done for the noise
User26: User8 ok, thanks !
User4: User44 if you come up with a fix and want to ask about the best way to get it integrated into Ubuntu, that would be a suitable topic for this channel
User44: User4 i c
User44: User4 yes, that's the one I want to coop with devel here
User26: devels are on #ubuntu too
User22: anyone have access to the changes ubuntu has made to kernel-package? The patch in debian bug #281465 is malformed
User4: User22 well, the archive's public, but let me see
User15: User4 damn. you beat me to it.
User4: User22 which bit is malformed?
User22: patch: **** malformed patch at line 359: @@ -1606,10 +1613,12 @@ endif
User22: the @@endif is bogus
User4: User22 I'll see if I can fix the patch at that URL
User22: and there are @@ else, etc, further down that patch
User22: does ubuntu use arch as a repository?
User4: that's the eventual plan but it's not quite there yet
User8: User4 could I be ultra lame and ask you to fix an mdz typo in the seed lists for me?  it's gnome-app-install, not 'gnome-app-installer'.. no rush, just next time you add/remove something :)
User22: in that case, would there be an effort to tag the ubunto arch repo off upstream arch repos (for example, for kernel-package), so the merging gets easier?
User4: User22 believe so
User15: ubuntu
User22: lamont: y'all should have selected something more impervisou to typos
User22: I keep wanting to call it ubunti
User22: darn. feels weird to be upstream
User15: User22 yeah, well..
User4: User22 try now
* lamont_r must wander for a while
User4: User8 done
User8: cheers dude
User41: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/TrashSun.mov
User41: ^ classic, but annoyingly bad quality :(
* cenerentola is away: I'm busy
User4: User45 please turn off public away
User45: zorry...
User4: thanks
User46: sheesh, what type of bandwidth does archive.ubuntu.com have!
User46: downloading at 1Mbps
User28: dialup ;)
User41: User46 is that slow, or fast for you? :)
User46: relatively fast
User46: at least when not downloading from local mirror
User46: actually 1MBps
User46: not 1Mbps
User46: 1Mbps wouldnt be so fast
User46: 970kB/s to be exact right now
User46: hmm
User46: ubuntu doesn't install whois by default
User4: User46 it does in hoary, not in warty
User4: (gnome-nettool depends on it now)
User46: updating to hoary right now
User4: well, you can always just install the whois package, which would be a bit less intrusive
User46: User4 only installed warty to upgrade to hoary
User4: there's a hoary install CD ... :)
User4: (but sure, fair enough)
User13: User4 odds of madwifi in installer phase?
User4: User13 depends how evil it is
User46: User4 doesn't seem so evil, just plain module loading
User46: in restricted
User4: what does it involve adding?
User46: User4 basically, /etc/network/interfaces is written in installer, if madwifi isn't there, doesn't get added to interfaces, hence even though detected on boot, can't be brought up
User4: yes, I'm familiar with the potential problems
User46: User4 unsure, but hotplug already knows about it
User46: another question: why does my menu.lst get rewritten with ".dpkg-tmp" kernels?
User4: User26 does #3754 make any sense to you?
User4: User46 I guess update-grub sucks, or something
User46: User4 or called too early
User46: argh, no 2.6.9 kernel
User46: means my treo doesnt work
User4: thom's away at the moment, isn't he?
User47: yeah
User13: vacing in vegas
User46: hmm, x-chat settings seem to have changed in move to hoary, no longer a black background
User7: xchat changed their default
User7: I recall they had a black theme linked in the #xchat topic
User16: weird
User16: I have 2.4
User16: and still black
User7: Did you still have your old ~/.xchat2 lying around?
User48: thanks
User48: all nice and better now
User16: from warty I think
User7: Then that would be why
User7: You have the old color palettes lying around
User16: ic
User26: User4 the panel launcher is in gnome-panel, and it was pointing on evolution-2.0.desktop
User26: User4 that's fixed for some days now
User26: User4 I'm closing it
User48: User26 eh?
User48: I just installed and hit that
User26: User48 #3754 ?
User48: panel launcher not being able to load evolution?
User26: yes
User48: yes
User48: just hit that
User48: installed warty
User48: upgraded to hoary
User48: rebooted
User26: dpkg -l gnome-panel ?
User48: tried loading evolution
User48: ii  gnome-panel    2.9.1-0ubuntu2 Launch and/or dock GNOME 2 applic
User26: you have made changes on the panel ?
User48: didnt, I edited the launcher to do the right thing after it fialed
User4: User26 thanks
User26: User48 have you change any panel settings since the installation ?
User48: no
User48: I just installed warty
User48: like 20 minutes ago
User48: then immeadily upgraded to hoary
User48: sort of annoyed that must use evolution-2.1 in it
User48: as evolution-2.1 is severly broken right now
User48: but oh well
User26: gnome-panel (2.9.1-0ubuntu2) hoary; urgency=low
User26: * Fixed the evolution launcher (Hoary: #3559).
User16: evolution crashes from time to time :)
User26: the launcher has been fixed in the panel layout
User16: seb128, just now? :p
User26: dunno why it has not changed your config
User26: User16 no, why ?
User48: but I guess its not picked up if already in the actual panel
User26: User48 perhaps, the package can't overwritte the user config, I've no easy solution for this
User26: User48 but hoary is still a devel branch, such problems happen in a devel branch
User16: ah it is normal that it isn't fixed :)
User26: just change the command in the launcher
User48: User26 already ddid
User26: ok
User48: I didnt even think it was a bug until you mentioned it
User16: seb128, but when people upgrade from warty
User16: the problem will still be there?
User48: lupus: it's a bug in warty that can't be fixed easily
User48: the launcher should never have contained a versioned name
User48: it should have been just evolution, not evolution-2.0
User16: yes I know
User26: the problem is that evolution 2.0 provides a evolution-2.0.desktop
User26: and evolution 2.2 a evolution-2.2.desktop
User26: and no evolution.desktop
User4: alternatives?
User4: or an evolution package that depends on the current one and contains an evolution.desktop symlink
User26: User4 I've just not thought to add a evolution.desktop, the evolution-2.0.desktop was not a problem
User16: .desktop files
User16: nm :)
User26: hum, an upstream is asking ... do we have "subscribe to bugs for a package" feature in bugzilla ?
User16: I wanted to say is this a bug upstream then :)
* Kamion wanders off for a bit while mozilla-firefox builds
User48: anyone have any idea how I can downgrade evolution from hoary?
User26: not easy
User26: what's the problem with it ?
User48: it doesn't work
User48: at all
User26: downgrading evolution mean downgrading evolution-data-server, so gnome-panel ...
User48: though maybe warty isn't any better for me
User48: argh
User26: what's the problem with it ?
User7: 'it doesn't work' isn't too helpful
User48: it cant seem to use tls on my smtp connections
User48: always fails
User48: hmm
User26: tls ?
User48: secure smtp
User48: starttls
User48: always get a connection refused
User26: yeah, apparently there is some problem with the secure connexion
User26: connection
User48: can't send mail :(
User48: can download it fine, just cant send it
User26: turn the secure off
User48: required to send mail
User48: btw, any reason why evolution-exchange is basically required to be installed?
User48: seb: any way to fix the sending problem? or is this an upstream issue?
User48: hmm, I see ximian isnt doing anyhing about it yet
User26: User48 yes, upstream issue, turning the smtp secure option to off should work ...
User26: User48 evolution-exchange is in the "standard" installation you can remove it
User48: User26 only if you remove ubuntu-desktop
User48: as that depends on it
User48: is ubuntu-desktop a real package or a meta package?
User26: User48 yes, but you don't need it
User26: User48 apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop :)
User48: User26 but also wont automatically pull in any new "standard" packages
User48: so its sort of a catch-22
User26: yeah ...
User48: this is weird, universe contains packages that are in the main dist?
User26: should not, why ?
User48: i.e. for example, python2.3
User48: there's 2.3.4-13ubuntu and 2.3.4-16
User26: 2.3.4-13ubuntu1 here
User48: yes, but I added universe and got 2.3.4-16
User48: -16 > -13ubuntu1
User48: hence it sort of wants to upgrade it
User4: that sounds like you added Debian rather than universe
User48: not that I can see
User48: only deb line in my sources.list
User48: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted universe
User26: apt-cache policy python2.3 ?
User48: python2.3:
User48: Installed: 2.3.4-13ubuntu1
User48: Candidate: 2.3.4-16
User48: Version Table:
User48: 2.3.4-16 0
User48: 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages
User48: *** 2.3.4-13ubuntu1 0
User48: 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
User48: mean anything to you?
User26: ok, so only one version in main
User26: that's right
User26: yeah, nothing from universe
User48: so 2.3.4-16 is the newest ubuntu version?
User48: no -16ubuntu1 or what not?
User26: User4 do we have a "subscribe to bugs for a package" feature in bugzilla ?
User4: User26 no idea I'm afraid
User26: User48 2.3.4-16 > 2.3.4-13...
User48: ok, just wanted to ensure I was installing an ubuntu package
User48: version # through me off
User4: python2.3 | 2.3.4-13ubuntu1 |         hoary | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, source
User26: User4 ok, who is in charge of the bugzilla/the bugzilla expert now ?
User4: that's all I can say ...
User4: User26 jdub's your best bet, I think
User26: User4 I've just updated and get the new python2.3 on i386 here
User16: isn't python 2.4 almost out :)
User4: I'm looking at a freshly rsynced archive on little
User26: User16 that has been discussed, probably too late to get everything working with it for hoary
User16: hu?
User16: hoary is in 6 months
User16: that's a lot of time
User4: upstream version freeze is much sooner than that
User26: User16 http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule
User26: User16 5
User26:
User26: December 27th
User26:
User26: Array Test CD 6
User26:
User26: oups, copy/paste ....
User4: the Array CD dates are wrong, I'll update them
User4: hm, maybe best not actually, I'm a week out of phase
User26: I was pasting that for " /!\ UpstreamVersionFreeze" which didn't get pasted :p
User14: anyone know smeg all about evms?
User4: User14 that'd be mdz
User26: User14 oh, you, bugzilla's master :) Is there any way to subscribe to the bugs for a package in bugzilla ?
User14: User4 mmm. lacking. d'oh.
User14: User26 hrm
User14: User26 i don't think we have a really neat way of doing it for multiple people in our bugzilla
User14: User26 but i can put you on as QA contact or owner of a particular module
User26: oh
User26: garnacho was asking if he has a way to track the gnome-system-tools bugs
User26: perhaps the QA contact would be ok for that :)
User14: heh
User14: hmm
User49: easiest way to do that right now is make up a fake account to stick as the QA
User49: then have people watch that account from their preferences
User26: thanks justdave
User48: User26 an option might be do pull a windows
User48: i.e. have an "all users account"
User48: so data from there is pulled in for all the users
User48: users can "white out" the enteries if they want
User48: if they change them, they are copied locally
User16: on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryHedgehog 2* HoaryReleaseSchedule  and 1* HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule
User14: User49 mm, that's what gnome does - but we don't have an easily administrable aliases/lists system for it yet
User26: User14 how do we change the QA for a component ?
User16: may I just add a program to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SupportedSeedProposals or must I first propose it on the mailing list?
User14: User26 i can change that in a jiffy
User26: User14 could you set brayjason@example.net for gnome-system-tools ?
User50: hi
User50: is gnome-volume-mixer supposed to work with alsa ?
User50: gnome-volume-control
User16: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule
User16: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryHedgehogReleaseSchedule
User16: which one may be removed?
User16: shouldn't https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GuideToHoary and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryUpgradeNotes be merged?
User48: anyone knows when archive.ubuntu is updated each day?
User13: iirc it's every half hour
User48: ah
User48: so not just daily like ftp.debian.org
User14: nup
User14: cron.daily runs every 30 mins :)
User26: User14 that's ok for the gst QA ?
User14: User26 yeah
User26: ok, thanks !
User14: we'll sort out aliases for them later
User26: ok
User48: what's the "multiverse"?
User51: User48 the "non-free" area of ubuntu
User14: User48 ubuntu equivalent of debian's contrib/non-free
User48: yah all couldn't just go with the regularly understood names :)
User48: I would have figured restricted was non-free
User48: or is that restricted = "non-free" but in Ubuntu Main, while Multiverse = restricted universe
User14: restricted is drivers only
User48: universe stuff can have bug filed against them, right?
User1: spotter : you need to file it against debian, as universe is not supported ..:)
User48: User1 except it doesnt seem like a bug in debian
User48: i.e. need force-overwrite to install
User1: spotter : in that case, you should file the bug against the component in warty/hoary you think is responsible for the bug
User14: User1 ubuntu bugs should *not* be filed against debian
User14: User1 universe or not, they are all ubuntu packages
User1: jdub : ah sorry, I recalled I read it on the universe/multiverse wiki maybe?
User14: hope not...
User1: jdub : from bugsy:
User1: jdub :   Before reporting a bug, please read the bug writing guidelines, please look at the list of most frequently reported bugs, and please search for the bug.
User1: Please note: packages which are found in the 'universe' repository are not supported here. Since packages from 'universe' are rebuilt from Debian Sid, problems with them should be reported to Debian. If you are certain the problem is caused by an interaction with something in Ubuntu, you can post to the ubuntu-users mailing list for assistance.
User1: sorry for the rude paste
User14: we should modify that a bit
User14: hmm
User1: jdub : according to what you just said, maybe so :)
User48: anyone know what package icon-slicer is in?
User49: he's klined
User48: any idea why the theme selector isn't letting me switch themes?
User48: stays on human no matter what I do
User1: jdub : so we would need to investigate the package, and only if it's opsses in debian open bug upstream? (=debian)
User14: User1 well atm, we wouldn't, because there is no bug tracking for universe :)
User1: jdub : is there anything in the works for it? or some sort of bug reporting infras. for univ. ?
User14: User1 in the future, more people will be concentrating on universe fixes
User14: kind of
User14: not directly, but there will be a solution post-bugzilla
User48: anyone know how I am supposed to be able to change the theme in hoary?
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