User1: jo-erlend: hey
User1: jack is not running by default
User1: most applications support jack
User1: and jack is installed by default
User1: pa is installed and running for now
User1: there is talk of pulling it out
User1: ?
User1: its not really something that you want running like that
User1: KXstudio runs jack out of the box
User1: jo-erlend: right, but they are not really comparable
User1: that would be like saying gnome-terminal vs. KDE
User1: they are really totally different things
User1: you could say pulse vs. also
User1: alsa*
User1: JACK is not really something for the common daily user to play mp3's with
User1: or run at login with daily use apps
User1: pulse *is* for that purpose
User1: pulse does all kinds of cool things
User1: low latency is not wone of those things though
User1: jo-erlend: JACK takes over
User1: you can run pulse with JACK
User1: there are lots of ways to have JACK running and port pulse audio into it
User1: you can also just stop JACK, and use pulse
User1: start JACK, do pro audio
User1: stop JACK, play mp3's or youtube... flash
User1: whatever
User1: the idea that JACK should become something for the normal desktop user is odd
User1: its unneccessary
User1: that user doesnt need the hassle, and wont benefit from the perks
User1: jo-erlend: depending on the target audience, i say dont mention JACK
User1: unless its a user who needs interoperablity, or low latency, they are probably never going to need it
User1: JACK is a pro audio tool though
User1: you can even go find jono bacon and ask him about why he doesnt use JACK and other pro audio tools
User1: i think that would go a long way to answering the need for a pamphlet like you are proposing
User1: jo-erlend: thats not a true statement either though
User1: JACK is quite powerful in a totally different way
User1: and if you want to connect different apps together, JACK is quite user friendly
User1: i just dont even think JACK needs to be mentioned in comparison to pulse
User1: its more of an added tool
User1: a totally different thing
User1: it just happens to need your audio device, and suspends pulse
User1: IF you have 2 audio devices? pulse will run on one while JACK uses the other
User1: jo-erlend: thats the nature of it though
User1: and making a 'how to use JACK' page is a pain
User1: jo-erlend: you cant explain it though
User1: what kernel are they using?
User1: what audio device?
User1: firewire?
User1: sure... and i think its a great idea
User1: just think about adding it on like a tool
User1: such as the gimp or openshot
User1: JACK is more like that
User1: its not really a sound server replacement
User1: sure, but i think this is even different than that
User1: i think this is more like comparing python and qt
User1: you can compare those
User1: but you dont compare them like you would qt and gtk
User1: its not like you either use pulse or JACK
User1: JACK just suspends pulse because it needs to use the hardware
User1: i have a firewire device for example
User1: when i run JACK on it, pulse is still running on the internal card
User1: its not a replacement for the sound server
User1: it gives you lowlatency access to the device allowing interconnectivity of JACK supported hardware and woftware
User1: software*
User1: its not a replacement for the sound server
User1: it just cant use the card while the sound server is using it
User1: jo-erlend: qjackctl or jack control is the GUI front ent
User1: end*
User1: jo-erlend: sure
User1: its not a replacement for the sound server
User1: JACK only suspends the sound server because it needs to use the same audio device
User1: like when you open the gimp on the screen
User1: and then you open a web browser
User1: those are not competing
User1: they just both use the same screen
User1: jo-erlend: right, and JACK is geeky
User1: if you are not writing for geeks, or audio pros, you need not mention JACK
User1: jo-erlend: sure... but im not sure you are willing to take this in
User1: its not a sound server
User1: not in that sense
User1: its *not* an alternative
User1: its a different tool
User1: jo-erlend: right, and you cant
User1: because you are comparing cutting a board with a saw or a hammer
User1: JACK is not intended to be a sound server replacement
User1: jo-erlend: if you want
User1: go to #ardour
User1: catch las
User1: he co-wrote JACK and knows a lot about alsa and pulse
User1: i dont think thers anything i can say to convince you
User1: jo-erlend: ?
User1: that JACK is not a replacement for pulse
User1: they just both use the audio hardware, so they cant co-exist easily
User1: sure
User1: becuase you dont need lowlatency or the interconnectivity of JACK
User1: you need the dekstop friendliness of pulse
User1: jo-erlend: right
User1: and we dont
User1: its just there to run as a tool
User1: but, KXstudio runs JACK like that
User1: at login
User1: with mixed results
User1: not all ubuntustudio users are doing audio either
User1: jo-erlend: understand?
User1: ;)
User1: to be more precise, JACK is a bad example
User1: ask las
User1: it was just not intended to be used like that
User1: as a desktop sound system
User1: jo-erlend: nothing installed by default in ubuntu requires JACK
User1: nothing the normal user would ever encounter
User1: you can use audacity and do lots of pro-ish audio without useing JACK
User1: alsa midi is not all that bad
User1: but, its got a learning curve like anthing else
User1: anything*
User1: require?
User1: jack uses alsa midi, so technically none
User1: but, you need JACK to do the audio for some of them
User1: and you want JACK running for that purpose
User1: jo-erlend: USC = ubuntustudio?
User1: oh... not sure
User1: less all the time
User1: nah
User1: its not lots
User1: they expect JACK like ardour
User1: you you *can* use ardour with out JACK tough
User1: though*
User1: jo-erlend: they dont produce audio though
User1: that has tnnothing to do with JACK
User1: those are sequencers
User1: MIDI doesnt make sound
User1: MID is just a message
User1: note on, note off
User1: that triggers a sound module
User1: the module can be hardware or software
User1: jo-erlend: right, this is a change from coming from windows
User1: typical 'all in one box' setups
User1: jo-erlend: explain what?
User1: it really depends on the target audience
User1: i would
User1: its not something the normal desktop user is going to be aware of
User1: jo-erlend: i mean, i think youa re quite an advanced user, and you are wondering why the MIDI sequencers dont make sound
User1: this is not a JACK issue
User1: nor a windows vs mac vs linux issue
User1: jo-erlend: right, but that doesnt have anything to do with JACK
User1: they *dont* make sound
User1: tey are not supposed to
User1: they trigger sounds
User1: all im saying is, if you *dont* know what JACK is, theres no need to try and explain it
User1: nah... lost of folks use ubuntu without ever using JACK
User1: lots of folks do pro podcasts with linux *without* using JACK
User1: you dont *have* to use JACK at all
User1: but, at first glance its daunting, and odd
User1: and im afraid thats where you are with it
User1: at first glance
User1: which is fine
User1: jo-erlend: you dant explain it
User1: not in a pamphlet like that
User1: jo-erlend: what are you going to say about GCC in that pmaphoet?
User1: or python?
User1: its too specialized
User1: its not necessary to bother the new user with
User1: the normal desktop user
User1: jo-erlend: ?
User1: we use them quite a bit
User1: jo-erlend: right, but thats a feature, not a bug
User1: thats what a sequencer does
User1: j	we dont
User1: theres some app like that
User1: its just not very good
User1: its like something youd see on windows
User1: all in one like that
User1: we have tools
User1: JACK
User1: sequencers
User1: sound modules
User1: more like what you would find in a pro studio
User1: jo-erlend: we struggle with documentation for UbuntuStudio
User1: most things are just too specialized
User1: like sequencers
User1: to suggest that a sequencer should make sound is to miss the point
User1: we have the freedome to use whatever sequencer with whatever sound modules we want
User1: with JACK, that can be harware or software
User1: jo-erlend: if you want a sentence that explains JACK for the pamphlet, i would ask las
User1: or i could put something together
User1: or ScottL , ScottL = the ubuntustudio team lead
User1: jo-erlend: i know you are out for food... but
User1: the last think i wanted to do was be abrasive... however, i feel it is a misrepresentation to say JACK is something to be used like pulse
User1: its got a wicked learning curve
User2: HI
User2: there is a problem
User2: my config is: sw - ubuntustudio 11.04_i386, hw - Creative X-FI Platinum
User2: X-FI has a one input multifunctional port   Line-in/Digital-IO
User2: i configure it as Line-in
User2: connect the instrument into Line. I hear the sound but i cannot capture it.
User2: p.s.: I remove pulseaudio from system, because it slow in lmms. I use jackd for most my needs.
User2: Somebody can help me with capturing?
User2: Thanks in advance!
User3: hi all
User1: good day Lord_Kakturion :)
User3: #ubuntu-pl
User3: tfu
User3: forgot about /join :D
 * Lord_Kakturion just finished installing ubuntu studio
User3: it starts really fast :)
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