User1: Software Center History done. http://i49.tinypic.com/29zsifb.jpg
User2: any idea whether rgba is enabled globally by default in the alpha 1 build of lucid?
User2: kwwii - I assume that the plan is to rework the gtk theme with transparent fun if the rgba stuff works out?
User3: Equiet_,  is that a mock up or a new theme?
User4: User2 not sure how much of that will make it into lucid...depending on that, yes, we will include as much as possible
User5: User1 neat. i think i see varying slight color tints in the greys, though
User4: User2 the rgba stuff we have been working on allows a person to set an alpha value to whole classes of widgets
User2: Would it not also be a great boon for cimi's rgba transparent gtk work
User4: so for instance, we can set all menu- and tool-bars in unfoused windows slightly slightly transparent
User4: this allows us to enable transapency without touching apps ;)
User2: Cimi must be estatic :D
User2: Was a shame that the gtk guys had no interest in it
User5: User4 there's already mechanism to thme widgets different depending on window focus?
User5: theme, even
User2: great contribution from canonical in my view
User2: thorwil - rgba gtk transparency?
User5: User2 i mean in general
User2: I would assume that transparency would add variables to the equation the current system does not account for.
User2: out of curiosity was upstart still used along with xsplash for 9.10, hence the two different boot up themes?
User2: whoops
User2: usplash
User1: User3 A mockup.
User3: Equiet_,   yeah I was just curious what was going on with the screenshot:)
User4: User5 yes, with both rgba and the cs windeco code we will have it
User4: and this is all in patches for gtk, so it will all go upstream
User1: User5 Yeah, there is a lot of color grey diferences. Mainly the zebra effects in events and months.
User1: If you mean this.
User5: User1 i mean yellowish, greenish and blueish tints in the greys. from experience i know that this can be misleading, as it is much about context
 * tretle thinks its kinda sad it took this long for global rgba support to make it into gtk but happy canonical pushed some progression on the subject :D
User5: User1 you could do without the rectangles around the numbers
User1: User5 Without them it looks quite unsorted with random brown rectangles. But with just one rectangle behind all numbers...
User5: User1 that's a matter of how you style the divisions
User1: User5 http://i48.tinypic.com/2qv8kk3.jpg , http://i48.tinypic.com/1zxdh2.jpg
User5: User1 starting from the first, try lines between the numbers, reachung up to the bars
User5: User1 then try to fade the lines out at top and bottom
User5: User1 also try white lines and adjust the background there
User2: actually I think the gtk box around the numbers 18-24 in november looks weird, unusual to see it rendered in that way rather than go with a standard highlight color
User1: User5 http://i46.tinypic.com/5eeirq.jpg
User5: User1 i think that works fine
User1: Looks like I will need serious auto upload tool for this.
User3: oo that last link isnt opening here
User3: there i is
User1: User2 Please, explain a little bit more.
User5: User6 stop trolling kerberos ;)
User6: User5 had too much of him ;p
User6: User5 is he a friend of yours ? [didnt mean to offend you ;) ]
User5: User6 no. i have none ;p
User6: lol
User5: User6 he's right regarding the big picture, but totally blind to what has been going on. or he's actually having fun with the list, like you do ...
User6: User5 hei!
User6: User5 big picture everyone knows... but what to do/how to deal is the problem ;)
User5: User1 i think what tretle means is that you should try to indicate the selection with a filled rect like you see on item selection in nautilus
User5: User6 make everyone do what i say would be one way. but i guess that's not popular :)
User5: User1 though i bet he didn't think of direct manipulation
User2: yeah thats what I meant
User5: User2 the intention might be to have a resize-able selection
User5: and certainly one that can be dragged
User2: and I did think of direct manipulation, it made me wonder. If you directly manipulate it in such a way instead of using a fill color then why is there a scroll bar? Is that not added clutter?
User2: ah
User2: resizable
User2: did not think of that
User5: User2 scrolled view is larger than desired selection?
User6: User1 use png screenshots , the image would be better/clearer
User5: worth a thought to not have a scroll/selection split
User2: and how does pitivi and jokosher handle the issue
User2: would it not be a wise idea using a similar system so that there is some consistancy
User5: yes, for the 5 pitivi and/or jokosher users ;)
User2: Thats not fair on jokosher
User2: its fully featured
User2: and the ui is very well thought out
 * thorwil hugs ardour
User1: http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/ history-v5.png
User3: Equiet_,  I havent been paying close attention and I apoligize for that but.. are th blocks above the numbers  small progress bars?
User1: :/
User3: Equiet_,  sorry   as I said I havent been paying attention
User1: User3 No, it's fine, but I am disappointed that it's not obvious (not your fault). It's means the activity/number of events for a certain day.
User1: *It
User5: User1 there's always someone to whom it is not obvious ... ;)
User3: Equiet_,  ok... mm...that wasnt apparent  to me
User3: well one of the issues with any gui is ,,,does it speak well to the average user?
User3: it should also have advanced features but any gui  that is not clearly understaood by average users  should maube be thought about/
User3: ?
User5: sadly we have no average user clones at our disposal
User1: I have 1 Mac user online. :P :)
User3: thorwil,  well you can show an image to anyone on most channels to see if it is clear to them :)
User3: and I am can generally look with eyes of average user since most of my clients dont know anything about any system or application and they can get confused  or ignor what is not understood
User3: ignore
User3: I didnt mean to sound too blunt about this
User5: *ocean of doubt*
User3: thorwil, well that one went over my head :) or between my legs not sure which :)
User1: The Mac user anwers... And doesn't know what the brown rectangles are.
User3: Equiet_,  this is from someone that looked at it?
User1: User3 Yes.
User3: Equiet_,   well that kind of makes sense no?
User5: User1 but he knows about the basic concept of the software center?
User1: User5 He knows it's about installing apps, that's all.
User3: there you go
User5: User1 anyway, should days without even appear in the list?
User5: events, i mean
User1: User5 Yes, I think. Without them users wouldn't even understand what the numbers are.
User5: User1 with context like Histors ad November?
User5: User1 you could make empty days smaller
User5: and unselectable
User6: User7 aw... :(   get well soon :)
User1: User5 Empty days smaller - OK. But unselectable, it's quite too complicated, isn't it?
User3: Equiet_,  is it possible to have the days with no events colapsed  with an arrow to expand it if someone wants to see all of the days?  or maybe each month expandable?
User1: Well, coz_...
User1: This is thing I thought about a lot.
User3: Equiet_, ` to have it exapandable  you mean?
User3: Equiet_,  or what you have on that image?
User1: And after user stories I have read, all of them wants to step back only about 1 week ago.
User3: ah
User5: User1 it's questionable if there's a need to select a range of days, even
User1: (Sorry, I write slow, especially in English.)
User3: Equiet_,  your english is fine :)
User1: User5 The range of days could be generated by number of events. There are users, that connect to the Internet once a month so they have just 1 day full of events.
User1: So for them the range could be a month.
User2: ardour is a different beast to jokosher, jokosher is the sound editor for bands and aurdour is for engineers
User2: sound engineers
User5: User2 no way, there are enough musicians using ardour
User3: Equiet_,  I can say I prefer the layout of this very much compared to what is default right now:)
User6: User3 good luck convincing mpt ;p
User3: I dont do  any music composing on linux at all
User3: mac_v,  oh?
User6: User3 to change the software center layout ;)
User5: User6 when i talked with him, it seemed well to be within the realm of the possibl
User3: mac_v,  oh !! mmm  well that's not surprising :)   although this layout is far less confusing than the default one
User5: User1 maybe dates shouldn't be primary, but secondary. so you would have a list of events and at the side associate those to time ranges
User6: User5 yup , maybe  , i showed him Equiet_'s earlier layouts too... not sure he is very convinced though
User6: i'v*
User3: that's a shame ..this layout is far more visually appropriat for gnome and most other applicatoin layouts
User3: the default one is a bit "foreign"  overall in camparison
User6: actually , if we polish this very well and check there isnt any loop hole  , we've missed there might be a chance
User3: that would be cool :)
User3: Equiet_,  is the horizontal layout of history the only one you have attemtped?
 * coz_ is fond of vertical ..list driven stuff :)
User1: We can still do it simplier, just to replace the numbers with the name of the month and make selectable only whole moths. Result will be just a long list of events for advanced users and a short one for less advanced.
User3: Equiet_, that sounds cool
User6: User1 it would be bad , to just group everything from a month together
User5: i imagine a vertical list of events, with headlines for the month, but days running on one side
User3: I lke that visual :)
 * mac_v is probably blind , doesnt see what coz_ just saw :(
User3: :)
 * thorwil injects a does of alice in wonderland into mac_v's brain
User3: mac_v,  sound to me like a typical applicatoins menu
User3: mac_v,  vertical orientationi... list with the days as the active part   applications/accessories/ active stuff   but thats only what I saw :)
User3: orientation  sorry for that italian "i" at the end
User3: orientation rather
User6: hmm , maybe it would be too much info  , we need to keep it simple
User3: vertial list with months  dialog opens for days?
User6: "applications/accessories/ active stuff" mentioning the categories next to the days
User1: And what about doing it like http://i50.tinypic.com/sd2tti.jpg ? In the upper rectangle (where is All Departments and Sound & Video) would be months and instead of subsections would be days.
User3: mmm
User3: that sounds cool too
User6: User1 there needs to be a '>' between all departments and S&V  "All dep.. > S&V"
User7: thx mac_v :)
User6: :)
User6: User1 also regarding the history , it needs to be searchable...
User1: User6 In the departments I didn't find place where to put ">".
User1: And in history where to put search box.
User6: User1 without atleast a '>' it wont be clear it is a submenu
User6: User1 search is something that is stressed upon a lot , and needs to be prominent and consistently accessible in all the view , ie it needs to be a given a constant location
User6: User1 in any view/tab the user changes to , the user has to be able to search
User1: User6 If we will do the history that like subsections, there would be place for the search box.
User6: User1 if the search box is to be in the subsections in other views , then you need to figure out how to get it in history too ,  else search needs a new place... [AFAIK , all the recent development is going towards keywords , categories and making apps easier to find]
User1: http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/
User1: :)
User6: nice :)
User6: User1 why dont you move the search box to the space next to history in the top level?  the inprogress section is very rarely seen and the history , i believe is not displayed by default , so it shouldnt be cramped
User6: shouldnt be cramped in the top level*
User1: User6 It used to be there, but for a reason I do not remember it has moved to the actual position.
User6: User1 if its there , then you shouldnt have problem for history too
User6: User1 BTW , for home section where is the search box?
User1: <thorwil> Equiet: search outside the notebook is not well placed, as it doesn't imply the actual scope of search
User1: User6 There is not, too.
User1: Ok, I will move it back.
User6: User1 that location for search wont go too far :)
User1: Brb.
User1: http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/
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