User1: _stink_: http://www.amazon.com/YUI-3-Cookbook-ebook/dp/B0086I5M4W/ref=kinw_dp_ke?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2
User1: buying now to the kindle, woot
User2: http://www.amazon.com/Bluecell-Repair-Replacement-Unibody-Macbook/dp/B007ZW548E/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1339724446&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=mac+pro+screws and the rape-age begins
User2: but it comes with a free cable tie
User3: good morning
User4: What's the favorite do what you want license? BSD?
User4: Man, I forgot how much work prepping a module for release to PyPi is
User4: Write up docs, get all the files in the right place
User5: anybody know of any good django books they can recommend? I learn best from physical books
User4: rick_h gave me all of his 2 years ago
User4: I could ship them to you
User4: mostly outdated
User4: User5 There aren't any new book for Django
User5: User4 where are you located? no need to ship if you're close enough
User4: I'm in Grand Rapids
User5: oh
User5: so not that close lol
User5: 2 years ago, probably not very relevant anymore
User4: I don't see a single book after 2009
User5: ok
User4: Ah, Django 1.1 testing and debugging, but it still only covers 1.1. Current version is 1.4
User4: There are 2 incomplete books you can download
User4: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Djangodesignpatterns.pdf
User4: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Djangodesignpatterns.pdf
User4: CC, so you are free to download
User4: Sorry, this is the second onehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/djenofdjango.pdf
User5: lol very incomplete
User5: thanks
User5: snap-l: ok thanks
User5: ebooks are what I have my xyboard for
User4: snap-l: But they still only cover Django 1.1
User4: 2010 is the newest
User4: It's really kind of strange
User4: User5 Did you try Flask yet?
User4: That's what I said :P
User5: lol
User5: yeah that first one is 99% useless
User4: heh
User5: hey, it gives me an idea of what could possibly maybe be in the book
User4: They didn't take my pull request for instructions to compile on Ubuntu on the design patterns book. They have probably abandoned it
User4: They did take my pull request on the Djen of Django, so maybe they are still working on that one
User4: After the Django Docs, the Django TDD tutorial is really nice
User5: ok thanks guys
User4: Goes back through the official tutorial in a TDD manner
User4: OK, so I am trying to make my setup.py, but I need a version of a package that's only on github. How do I add that to my install_requires[]?
User6: User4 BSD or MIT are great do what you wants. CC0 is also possible if you don't even care about attribution
User4: hah! got it
User4: The geeker fixed a bug a year ago, and changed the verson on github, but never uploaded the fixed version to pypi
User7: heya, for those that followed that 38 Studios big layoff a couple weeks ago.... here is a podcast with a lot of info about it... about the 20-25 minute mark...
User7: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BobbyBlackwolfShow/~3/dSXKqWEycHk/BWShow052012.mp3
User7: didn't know Curt Shilling owned that company...
User4: So apparently AWS went down around midnight and Heroku too
User8: ?
User8: wow
User9: yeah, i noticed netflix went kaput. that uses aws, right?
User10: heh, yeah basically the internet stopped
User8: doe heroku run on amazon?
User4: User8 looks like it
User6: yes, they do.
User6: i'm surprised heroku isn't big enough to run on thier own systems. they could increase margins by doing so
User8: i'm sure they get different pricing
User8: also think about opening multiple datacenters in geographically diverse locations
User6: I actually doubt that they get different pricing.
User6: netflix has already startd moving away from amzn for content. see recent articles on their new CDN
User11: it doesn't take too many events like that to justify a move from aws.  Didn't reddit do that a bit back too
User6: well, you are SUPPOSED to design your app to run in multiple aws datacenters, but many don't.
User6: AWS gave you fair warning.
User6: netflix likely was not entirely down, just limping, becuase I know netflix is across data centers and they have thier well known chaos monkey
User12: I've heard and read horrible preformance issues with heroku
User6: oh?
User6: link please?
User6: you SHOULD be able to just throw more dynos at it, but that is only if your app was written to scale that way.
User12: http://justcramer.com/2012/06/02/the-cloud-is-not-for-you/
User11: well and that rebutal to that; http://rdegges.com/heroku-isnt-for-idiots
User6: User12 ty, excellent read.
User12: I'm confused by the App cloud business model, they all seem way more expensive (except aws) then just a VPS
User6: yes, they are.
User6: but they are way more convenient.
User6: a whole lot of web devs don't know how to admin any server, let alone a linux server
User12: if you have a userbase already to go then I can see that
User6: the apeal of git push heroku to them is huge
User12: I can see that
User13: +1 to anything that encourages those kinds of people to use revision control in my book
User12: though it only makes sense if they already have a product and are making profit of it
User6: you get 1 free dyno at heroku, so it makes sense if you have no profit
User11: I guess reddit dropped EBS, not sure on AWS in general.  http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/january-2012-state-of-servers.html
User6: EBS should be used sparingly and cautiously when designing to run on AWS
User6: reddit, 240 servers. that is NUTS
User6: compare with stackoverflow.
User6: oh, well... i guess SO is a bit smaller, but not THAT much smaller.
User6: in fact, 240 AWS instances is definitely around the point I'd start looking to selfhost
User6: actually, far far before that.
User12: time to buy a datacenter in a shipping crate
User11: google adplanner shows reddit as much larger than stackexchange, but I think that might not be fair comparison
User11: have to aggregate the stack sites
User11: reddit 2.7b page views/month, se+askubuntu+stackoverflow 260.7m page views/month
User11: still stackexchange was what 21-24 servers in 2011 and they're not 10 times smaller than reddit...
User6: yes, that was my point.
User6: and they were 4 servers to start, which is a great place to start. they scaled to damned huge on those 4 servers.
User11: yep, with thought and planning its impressive what you can do.  I wouldn't say reddit was a good example of an optimized site initially (they're getting much better recently though)
User1: yea, reddit's been understaffed for years
User1: it's going to be behind the eight ball
User1: SE isn't that much smaller than reddit because of all those windows machines :P
User6: ya know that point where you know the next test you need to write, but you really don't want to write it... been there all morning.
User6: User1 if only that were true. its actually teh opposite.
User1: User12 the advantage with the app hosts is that they admin and provide tools/apis for you to do sysadmin at the click of a button
User1: I can scale my heroku app up to 5 instances in 2min
User1: while scaling up 5 new vps's isn't happening for a bit
User1: and the heroku model of supplying add-ins means I don't have to setup a vps for my app, one for postgres, setup memcache, scale up my memcache server, move it to it's own vps, etc
User1: User6 yuck on the test, and :P on the windows jab
User1: after all, you're not running ec2 small instances for that stuff
User6: its not windows v. linux though. its app designed one way v. app designed another.
User1: yea, but it is rare for big web things like that to be the windows stack. <3 SE and all that
User6: indeed.
User1: but I've got no pity for any large site that's not across multiple AV zones today
User1: it's not like this lesson didn't come up for everyone last year
User6: i'd love to see them move to linux and Mono :)
User1: suck it up, do it right
User6: AV?
User1: sorry, availability zone, AZ my bad
User6: ah, yes, agreed
User1: sorry, catching up on backscroll
User4: I need my module to work as 'import android' but I don't really want it to be installed with 'pip install android'. Any idea how I configure that?
User1: been putting the pooch in the hospital and all that, freaking mess of a night/day
User1: User4 change the name in setup.py to be android
User1: but then don't make that the module
User1: and also...don't do that. I HATE that
User4: Well it has to be import android to do what it needs to do
User1: ugh, that sucks
User4: in SL4A you 'import android' to get access to all the Android API stuff
User4: I'm simulating that on the desktop, so I need the same module name
User1: gotcha
User4: But it's too generic of a name for pypi
User1: right, you can just change the package name in your setup.py to mock-android or something
User4: the first 'name'?
User1: rgr
User4: eh?
User1: roger
User5: 10-4 over and out
User4: User1 You are my hero
User1: User4 :) I trey
User1: try, damn I can't type on no sleep
User4: Something wrong with your dog?
User1: yea, she's had some kind of bad reaction to meds or something
User1: was up the last two nights with puppy messes and today she's being hospitalized
User1: now instead of sleep, I need to take this rented steam cleaner and pray some of it comes out of the carpets else break out the credit card for new floors
User4: Oh man, I hope she's OK
User1: yea, they're thinking just bad reactions to the pain meds they sent her in on, but now she's all dehyrated and a mess, so they're keeping her for the day
User4: All right, My second thing on PyPi http://pypi.python.org/pypi/sl4a_pydroid_mock_api/
User5: gratz brousch
User1: awesome man
User6: my names not shirley and dont' call me roger.
User6: having an office is nice.
User6: i was on the couch all morning.
User6: went to desk to eat, charge bat and work, then back to couch
User6: oh shit, I'm lame. I just wrote method missing in python *sigh*
User1: implemented __call__ ?
User4: method missing?
User1: ruby-ism
User1: http://rubylearning.com/satishtalim/ruby_method_missing.html
User4: string him up!
User12: what's his char_set encoding?
User12: up = him.ToString()
User6: actually, __getattr__
User6: __call__ just makes an instance callable
User6: whoa, cool think I learned about vim: / then ctrl-p&n to toggle through previous searches, and it navigates me through them.
User1: User6 ah, thought you were more going after methods vs attrib access
User6: turns out method call IS attr access that just happens to be callable and then it is called ;)
User1: lol, wheeee
User6: yeah.
User6: at first i thought i was being hacktastic, but i googled and found writing saying, YUP that is how it works.
User6: that is python
User6: YAY
User1: yea, there are cool hooks for doing nice things. Seems hacky, but lets you implement the API you want to write
User1: just wait until you start wanting to do some __new__ and metaclass stuff to make the code you write look like you want
User6: yup.
User6: i've read up, i think i'm capable of doing it if I need to.
User5: User4 yeah.. using old docs is kind of annoying. Simple things like "maxlength" getting renamed to "max_length" can be a pain.
User1: greg-g: :)
User1: greg-g: yea, the whole middle section for thumb operation is really sweet
User6: what kb is this?
User1: kenisis http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
User1: woot! two spdy articles on the front page of HN today
User8: kinesis needs to come up with something new
User8: I want them to make a countoured / split / bluetooth
User8: they could have added a few extra buttons for programming
User8: i want someone to make a keyboard that works off my fingers directly, like initial or something.  or video
User8: but just so that i twitch my fingers and letters happen
User8: so that I'm not needing to carry around a kb thats a lot bulkier than my computer
User8: or soon i'll just be stuffing the computer inside the kb and whoof! back we go 25 years
User8: and yea it'd need a usb option
User6: wtf?
User6: does playing d3 all morning count?
User6: omfg, I think I'm python idiot nub
User6: GAH!!! I FAIL AT LIFE!
User1: User6 what did you do now?
User6: i thought class A(object):\n  m=[]
User6: m was an instance member, instead of a class member
User1: ah
User1: nope, because you can do A.m without ever creating an instance
User6: yup.
User6: i was just hoping for the shorthand syntax outside of init
User6: guess there isn't one
User1: yea, also watch out for the def method(self, books=[])
User6: yeah, already doing that reasonably well.
User1: that catches new devs as well
User6: plus, pylint!
User1: oh, does pylint warn on using mutable defaults?
User6: I believe so.
User1: ah, good stuff then
User6: let me see :)
User1: yea, the 'shortcut' for the init is to just do kwargs
User6: W0102:432,0:main: Dangerous default value [] as argument
User1: but figure if you were goint to do a bunch of m=[], doing __init__(self): m=[] is only one line more
User1: ah, nice. This is why I love lint tools
User6: ditto
User1: but cool, check out @classmethod and your original idea with m = [] and you can do some cool stuff with constant-like and static like behaviors
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