User1: Gooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
User2: how to get karma with support?
User2: i made comments but did not get karma,what does to have happen so that i get karma?
User3: "This Source has been certified and is now unmodifiable."
User3: hehe, ehm, how can I change the CVS repo url for https://launchpad.net/products/yate/devel/+source
User3: upstream changed hosts
User4: User3 email launchpad-users
User3: User4 oki, do I need to be subscribed, or is it open?
User3: wiki:MailingLists, which wiki? wiki.ubuntu.com?
User4: User3 you need to be subscribed.  It is low volume
User4: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-users
User3: hmm, that's weird, both yate.null.ro and voip.null.ro point to the same ip
User3: yet, if I access the cvs repo at voip the last update is a few months ago
User3: if I use yate.null.ro it is recent
User4: I don't think CVS had support for name based vhosts
User4: User6 ping?
User5: New bug: #59280 in soyuz "queue tool does not display target pocket" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59280
User5: New bug: #59281 in soyuz "queue tool can't filter on source package" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59281
User6: User4 pong
User4: User6 I've been working on the product series branch stuff, and there was a question that came up with ddaa's mini-review.
User6: shoot
User4: User6 in my branch, I have series.import_branch being the attribute that importd uses for all its stuff and series.user_branch being setable by the user.  The series branch is considered to be user_branch if set, falling back to import_branch
User4: ddaa mentioned wanting to make sure the series branch is unique, and it isn't trivial to do multi-field unique constraints like this (i.e. saying that user_branch is different to all import_branch values)
User6: why should it be unique ?
User4: and I was wondering if things might be simpler if series.user_branch _is_ the product series branch
User4: and have importd's branch creation look like this:
User4: (1) create branch and set series.import_branch to it
User4: (2) if series.user_branch is NULL, assign this branch to that attribute too
User4: I'm not sure about the uniqueness constraint.  He brought it up because the existing field is set to be unique
User6: ok
User6: its important that importd only have one reference to each branch
User6: and its separately important than users not be able to commit to importd branches
User4: I mentioned that in my reply -- I can see the problems importd would face if that constraint broke
User6: but I dont think its important that a users branch not be mentioned by two series
User4: Okay.
User6: its not very useful, but it may be frustrating to have an arbitrary 'you must fix this somewhere else in the system' error
User4: what do you think about getting importd to set user_branch if it is NULL?
User6: particularly if its not /easy/ to get to the other series that happens to be referencing the branch you are trying to set
User6: coming to that
User6: so I think its much nicer for users to let them do what they want here - but if we choose to require uniqueness on the series branch, we should make it easy - as a priority IMO - to get to the other branch to change it. A direct link in the error for instance.
User6: as for implementing uniqueness by having importd assign to user_branch - sure. But rather than checking for NULL, make it not NULL.
User4: (I've done this in my branch, btw -- the error includes a link to the other series)
User6: User4 nice
User6: so make it not NULL, that way we'll never have a bug where its not set and we dont fall back for some reason
User4: make what not null?
User4: there will be series without Bazaar branches, so user_branch can't be a NOT NULL column
User6: mmm
User6: I see a potential for bugs:
User6: importd_branch is set
User4: I was also thinking that getting importd to set user_branch would simplify the UI a bit
User6: series_branch is not set
User6: but we dont fallback
User6: so it thinks there is no series branch, but there should be
User6: thats my only concern
User4: so that if the user sets up CVS import details and a branch gets created, they'll see that branch in the product series edit form
User4: at the moment they'd see a blank field
User6: let me put it another way
User6: we're saying that there should be an invariant : if there is an importd branch, there must always be a series branch
User6: the series branch -may- be NULL IFF the importd branch is NULL
User6: perhaps a constraint on the record, to preserve that invariant is all thats needed to trap bugs
User6: grabbing food
User1: fasdfasdf, you should be getting karma from helping with support, but that might not start happening for another week or two
User5: New bug: #59291 in soyuz "queue tool seems confused about NEWness" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59291
User5: New bug: #59292 in soyuz "Confusion between +packages and +distributions pages" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59292
User4: User6 so, I guess removing the uniqueness constraint for series.user_branch would solve most of these issues
User4: User6 also, have you had a chance to look at my product-release-finder branch?
User6: User4 oh, no. I'll do so tonight I think
User4: User6 I put up a second product-release-finder branch (jamesh/launchpad/bug-58847) that includes a merge of the first.  It might be easier to just review that.
User4: (it includes the fix for the UnicodeError we ran into most recently)
User6: sweet
User6: shall do
User4: once that's in, hopefully we'll get a full successful run
User6: whats the review url?
User6: (i'm in deep hack mode)
User4: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/jamesh/launchpad/bug-58847/full-diff
User6: whats the vocab for ?
User4: I added the dbschema vocab in the previous branch, but forgot to include the registration for it.  I guess it'd be worth adding a verifyObject() test to make sure the file info object is being created properly
User6: ;)
User6: +1 with that
User4: thanks.
User7: morning
User8: Afternoon, SteveA.
User5: New bug: #59301 in blueprint "Don't give me a vague "URL is registered by another specification" error" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59301
User7: hi Fujitsu.  morning!
User8: Not in Austuralia!
User9: User7 is there a spec for "every false url is a search"?
User6: User9 I dont think so
User6: User9 if you write one, please consider http correctness as part of it
User9: http correctness?
User7: it should be a 404
User7: unlike what moin does
User9: right, I love what moin does
User9: 404 are very very human unfriendly
User7: um
User7: no
User7: it *should* be a 404
User7: a 404 page can show search results
User7: moin returns a 200 for a page that doesn't exist
User9: ah
User7: meaning that your browser remembers it in the history
User9: ah
User7: and caches cache it
User7: etc.
User4: while internet explorer often hides 404 pages, it will display them if they are big enough
User4: bit of a weird behaviour
User7: User4 good point.
User9: ok, we are talking at different levels. I am talking about what the user sees
User7: User4 there are similar heuristics in parts of outlook, I've found.
User7: User4 MS seem to have a habit of using flakey heuristics.
User7: User9 so am I
User4: User9 they see whatever the web server sends, usually
User7: User9 if the user sees lots of pages that don't exist in their history, or out of date searches because they're cached
User7: then that's a problem
User9: ok
User4: I like the sound of microsummaries in Firefox 2
User7: there maybe a a bug on this, but not a spec yet
User6: User4 theres a documented trigger for IO
User6: IE I mean
User6: its in the techbase
User9: anyway, it would be nice if LP was smart when users are dumb
User4: if we put the right file on our server, you'd be able to bookmark a bug on launchpad, and the bookmark title gets updated when people edit the bugs title
User7: User9 If you write a spec for this, I will review it, and get it prioritized on the path to implementation
User9: User7 will do
User7: User4 nice
User4: User7 http://wiki.mozilla.org/Microsummaries
User7: User4 do you know if FF2 will be in edgy?
User8: SteveA, the beta is.
User4: User7 if Edgy really is 6.10, I doubt it
User9: b1 is already in edgy
User7: great.  I'll install edgy soon, and try it out
User8: Burgundavia, isn't it b2?
User8: Hm.
User8: You're right, it is only b1.
User4: User9 as default, or as an extra package?
User9: b2 is out but not yet packaged
User9: default
User9: it breaks ephy is horrible horrible ways
User4: User6 seems the condition is that the 404 page be larger than 512 bytes
User7: User4 why do they need xslt for microsummaries?
User7: User4 seems overdesigned to me
User4: User7 it is designed to be able to extract a title from the page
User4: User7 and to allow writing microsummary generators for other people's websites
User7: User4 can you ignore the xslt part, and just give them the summary?
User4: User7 no idea.  The XSLT could be a simple <xslt:value-of select="...."/> though
User6: User4 I dont recall precisely, but it is well documented by MS.
User7: User4 for launchpad, it would obviously be much much cheaper to render a u-summary than to render the whole page
User1: hi SteveA
User4: User7 yeah.  It isn't clear the spec allows you to direct them to a different URL to retrieve the summary
User7: User4 I can see why they've done it this way -- to make it easy for people who just have file-upload ability to sites to write such summaries, and to allow third parties to write summaries.  but...
User7: I think that should be a fall-back to having a <link> in the document, to a page that has the microsummary
User7: or having FF request the microsummary with a different mime type
User7: their spec doesn't give any indication about where to send comments
User4: I was just looking for such a link
User7: the only one I see is [edit]  ;-)
User4: rschultz@example.net might be appropriate
User4: the links to the examples are on his people.mozilla.com page, and has his email at the bottom
User4: http://people.mozilla.com/~myk/microsummaries/generators/
User10: morning
User7: User4 do you know "myk" ?
User1: I know his/her name is Myk Melez
User7: I'm concerned that this feature is like an RSS reader...
User7: except that it's not reading RSS
User7: the web server is given no opportunity to just return the minimum necessary
User7: so it may encourage webservers to add "number of requests per minute" limitations to all pages
User7: where such things were previously common just for dynamically generated RSS
User7: http://www.melez.com/mykzilla/
User4: It'd also be nice to be able to include multiple microsummary generators in a single file
User4: but that doesn't seem possible
User7: User4 would you be interested in blogging about microsummaries?
User4: sure.
User7: maybe that's a good way to give public feedback
User7: personally, I think it's a cool idea, but I'm concerned about the "encouraging a lot of full page renders on a web app" aspect.  For example, on launchpad, serving up a simple xml view of the data would make the xsl-t more reliable.
User7: and we could make it not a resource concern
User1: SteveA, voice call?
User7: User1 sure, but in 15 mins?
User1: ok
User1: I'll see if I can fix another bug in 15 minutes ...
User1: In the meantime you might want to pull mpt/launchpad/2006-08-ui to see progress
User7: User1 i'll be ready in a few minutes.  ekiga or skype?
User1: I haven't had a successful call with Ekiga yet, so it depends how much troubleshooting time you have :-)
User7: I had a good ekiga call with mpool
User7: so, let's give it a go, and if not, use skype
User1: ok
User7: ill wait until I've merged your branch
User7: it is half way through merge phase zero
User7: and now it is done
User7: that phase zero... it's the big one
User1: Big fat zeroes
User7: User1 I'm running ekiga now
User7: let me know when you are, and I will call you
User1: I am
User7: funny... my headset connects and reconnects for each ring
User1: I clicked "Accept" and immediately got "Remote user has stopped calling"
User7: so it goes beep-ring-beep (pause) beep-ring-beep (pause)
User7: i'll call again
User7: ok, let's try skype
User1: ok
User10: User4 hi, could you do  a fast review for me?
User10: User4 I forgot to add support for koffice in the branch you reviewed yesterday
User10: User4 https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileK6LECC.html
User4: User10 looks okay
User10: ok, thanks
User11: User10 the Punjabi stuff is interesting
User10: User11 and confusing...
User11: because we did unify the effort a while back :(
User11: I'm not happy about splitting it again.
User10: well, if there is a valid language code (seems to it)
User10: and both teams are not able to work together...
User10: we cannot force them to do it
User10: It's not exactly like es_ES vs es
User11: I know
User10: it's quite similar, but not the same
User10: so...
User11: I need more info regarding their inability to work together
User11: there were argentinians claiming they couldn't contribute to es at some point
User11: I want to make sure they really can't "understand each other"
User10: sure
User10: we should try to convince them, but if we reach a point when they say 'no way' we cannot force them to do it
User11: woa, and kopete is also sweet
User11: yeah, I agree
User11: I want more opinions from the area though
User10: sure
User11: Debian or GNOME Punjabi teams
User10: that's also something to talk with that guy, if he really sees that we should split, he should start doing it in GNOME and KDE too
User10: so we  don't start having problems with upstream
User10: User14 hi, if you already saw my cherrypick request, I would like to ask you some extra minutes to get another merger request accepted by PQM, it's related to that cherry pick, but I forgot to add that code there, it adds support for KOffice layout
User7: danilos, User10 short meeting in 10 mins?
User10: User7 sure
User12: User7 sure
User7: ok, thanks.
User11: User7 should I be there?
User12: "jordi, the social guy" :P
User7: User11 this is a specific meeting with mpt about some 1.0 ui stuff
User7: so you don't need to be involved
User7: it's more about the technicalities of searching and when some specs are scheduled
User11: User7 okay
User11: User12 dude shuddup
User11: :)
User13: morning
User7: bug 44
User5: Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Messages should be searchable." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44
User14: User10 ok
User10: User14 the merge is done, and the new revision number in your inbox
User10: User14 thank you
User5: New bug: #59318 in launchpad ".changes file should be displayed too" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59318
User7: User15 ping
User15: User7 pong
User7: User15 I had an idea about the __eq__ sets thing.  see list
User15: User7 I saw. I don't think it can be that, as that would have fooled my debugging too - I was only able to confirm this was caused by them being different objects because they repr()ed with different ids
User7: in that case, my recommendation is to work around it explicitly using obj.id for now, and know that this will be fixed when we upgrade to a better ORM
User7: the correct way to implement __eq__ involves taking into account object class, object id and database connection id.
User7: but, given the hairiness of sqlobject connection handling, i think implementing it properly will be error-prone
User7: so, it's better to use the minimum needed in the code where it is needed
User7: maybe implement __eq__ based on object id, and make it raise a warning, or even raise an exception
User7: what do you think?
User15: Hmm, yes
User15: Making it raise would be bad
User15: No more SQLObjects in sets at all, even if you can be sure of the comparison issues in your particular case...?
User14: Is there any reason why we can't implement __eq__ according to those criteria?
User15: I think your ideal comparison is the right one
User14: type comparison, object.id comparison, check the connection cache to ensure both objects are in the current cache
User15: Yes, stub's question is the right one - if we can do the right thing, we should. If we can't, I'm not sure which of the workarounds is best, possibly just leaving well alone and noting the issues
User7: User15 we shouldn't use sqlobjects in sets if they're not implementing __eq__ properly
User7: User14 I don't know about checking theyre in the current cache.  we'd just check they have the same connection
User7: but, it is a bug today, right now, to use __eq__ on a database object
User7: unless you specifically mean "this very object Ihave here"
User7: rather than "the object from the current connection with this class and this id"
User15: User7 If that's how SQLObject is supposed to work, then yes, using __eq__ is a bug.
User15: User7 I thought it was supposed to unique these things, in which case we've exposed a SQLObject uniquing bug here instead
User7: what does "to unique these things" mean?
User15: To ensure that there can only be one object in any one transaction representing any one database row
User7: ok, to ensure uniqueness
User7: sqlobject doesn't do that
User7: it does it *a bit*
User7: enough to lull you into a false sense of security
User15: Cool!
User7: but it isn't designed to do it thoroughly
User14: User7 If there is a back reference to the connection in the object, sure. But I thought we would have to ask the connection if the object is valid (which means it is in the connections cache) (?)
User7: another reason to use a better-designed ORM
User7: User14 there is a kinda back-reference, but now we're getting into horrible hairy territory.
User7: User14 so maybe your plan of making it only work for the current cache is a good one
User7: User14 I still think that this issue is too hairy for sqlobject, and we should make people use obj.id
User7: but I think I may be too extreme to be practical there
User15: Well, given it doesn't work properly, we might not actually have that many places comparing SQLObjects with ==
User14: I don't think we will be worse off if we just implement __eq__ checking for just id and class equality either. If the developer uses objects from previous transactions, then the obj.id == ob2.id comparison won't stop that happening either.
User14: User15 Wouldn't that fall back to id(obj) == id(obj2), which would often work by accident?
User15: User14 Yes, I guess it would often work
User16: i think comparing SQLObject with == is quite frequent in our code base, so most of the time it seems to work.
User15: I think ignoring connections and making == mean "represents the same row" is winning at the moment, for me
User15: Hmm, or forcing everyone to use id. I'm so indecisive today!
User15: I'm having one of those days when I shouldn't be allowed to develop
* stub is having one of those weeks
User7: ok, let's define that two database objects are equal if they are of the same class and have the same obj.id.
User7: at least then, we know what we want to happen, rather than have a kinda random situation.
User7: who wants to implement this, with tests of __eq__, __ne__ and __hash__ ?
User15: User7 I suggest a further email to the launchpad list before implementation; several people on that thread aren't awake yet
User7: let's cover it in the meeting
User17: evening all
User11: hey mark
User14: Argh... its Thursday!
User14: Meeting in 10 mins I guess
User14: Or do we get to cancel due to a lack of brazilians?
* stub crosses his fingers
User14: yo
User7: User14 there's still the meeting
User7: and there will be some brazilians here
User11: oh it is thursday
User18: New bug: #59330 in rosetta "Request: Mark string as "translation is not necessary"" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59330
* mpt wakes up reluctantly
* stub wonders wtf his week went
User19: User14 You saw the query timings I sent you? Will removing the distinct speed up the query that much?
User19: i.e. old one: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileQJI0RU.html
User14: User19 Nothing significant.
User19: vs. new one: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileYuSRa7.html (less the distinct)
User19: the new one is quite a bit slower
User7: ooh
User7: it's that time of week again
User7: LAUNCHPAD DEVELOPMENT MEETING
User7: welcome to today's meeting
User7: who's present today?
User19: M.E.
User15: me
User16: me
User7: * Andrew: on leave (2006-09-07)
User7: * Matsubara: on leave (2006-09-07)
User7: * Kiko: on leave
User7: * James
User20: me
User15: User19 Myalgic Encephalomyelitis?
User12: me
User1: me
User19: sounds painful
User7: User14 ?
User12: User10 ping
User14: here
User7: User11 ?
User21: here
User7: hi ddaa
User7: let's go
User19: no francis?
User10: me
User11: hey!
User7: == Agenda ==
User7: * Roll call * Agenda * Next meeting * Activity reports * Actions from last meeting * Oops report (Matsubara) * Bug report report (mpt) * Production and staging (Stuart) * Launchpad 1.0 status reports * Sysadmin requests
User11: I0m here
User7: ---- * SQL object equality (Steve) * (other items)
User7: hmm
User7: irssi...
User7: ---- * Keep, Bag, Change * Three sentences
User7: next meeting -- next thursday as usual?
User7: any public holidays etc?
User7: User1 would you set the channel title accordingly please?
User7: (I don't know how to drive that in irssi)
User7: hey kiko
User7: wasn't expecting you today
User22: I missed you all
User11: (stevea: /topic <tab>)
User12: User22 :)
User22: and I came to pimp my picture rschultz@example.net
User22: anyway sorry for interrupting
User22: me
User7: * Activity reports
User23: me
User7: who's hot an dwho's not
* SteveA is not hot.
User1: up to date (finally!)
User23: up to date
User22: not hot but on vacation
User14: up to date
User12: behind again
User10: I'm hot!
User15: I'm up to date
User19: up to date
User16: up to date
User12: (just that I caught up :()
User21: up to date
User20: not up, will send summary
User7: * Actions from last meeting
User7: * SteveA to update infrastructure specs if /$name is needed for 1.0
User7: still to do.  it is needed.
User7: * stub to check that bug 57474 isn't an SQL injection attack vector
User18: Malone bug 57474 in launchpad "Passing a list as the query string in the product search field crashes ftq" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57474
User7: * SteveA to put up a wiki page for the launchpad project to note disaster scenarios on, and mail the list about it
User7: still to do
User14: Didn't do that :-(
User7: actions for steve and stub
User7: * Oops report (Matsubara)
User22: SteveA, he sent us the report through mail, will you proxy?
User7: yes
User7: the following is from matsubara:
User7: here's the OOPS bugs that I think it would be worth mentioning in the meeting:
User7: This is a really weird bug that causes repeated calendar subscribers to appear
User7: in the portlet because of that it issues insane amounts of SQL queries:
User7: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-cal/+bug/57762
User18: Malone bug 57762 in launchpad-cal "Calendar subscription portlet shows lots of repeated subscriptions." [Medium,Confirmed]
User7:
User7: we need to remove the calendar from view, as part of 1.0
User7: so I propose simply removing that portlet
User7: Broken links to sourcepackages in the +packages page:
User7: https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/50399
User18: Malone bug 50399 in soyuz "Broken links at /people/$person/+packages" [Medium,Confirmed]
User10: User7 will we lose the calendar?
User7: User10 yes
User1: hurrah
User10: ok
User7: User10 we'll bring it back when it works well enough
User7: and we have time to do it
User10: I know we are not using it too much...
User10: oh I see
User10: that's fine, then
User1: Who should be assigned to the removal?
User22: mpt, wanna do it?
User7: User1 for the portlet alone, you
User1: ehehe
User1: ok
User7: for the whole lot... how about you again?
User1: all right
User7: thanks!
User1: Removing code, I can do
User7: you are a star
User7: we'll leave the guts in
User7: but remove it from the UI
User7: malcc, User20 comment on but 50399?
User7:
User7: more from matsubara:
User7: I'd suggest Bjorn to take this one:
User7: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/44919
User18: Malone bug 44919 in launchpad "UnicodeDecodeError while registering a new account." [Medium,Confirmed]
User7: I can take this one if it can wait until monday:
User7: http://launchpad.net/bugs/59249
User18: Malone bug 59249 in launchpad-bazaar "Edit branch details form need input validation for non-existent product" [High,Confirmed]
User7: User21 comment?
User22: malcc, User20 is that the bug where we have depends, etc on unpublished packages?
User21: User7 to me, it looks like a bug in the form machinery
User7: User21 can it wait until monday?
User15: User22 Don't think so
User22: oh
User22: it's in that page I fixed up
User15: User7 On 50399, just haven't proiritized it, haven't looked in any detail
User21: User7 it's ugly, but I do not see it as critical.
User22: malcc, ah, I know what it is
User22: that package name has an epoch
User16: i've assigned myself to bug 44919. i'll see if there's a quick fix for it. otherwise it'll probably take a while, since it requires changes (with a proposal) in upstream zope3.
User18: Malone bug 44919 in launchpad "UnicodeDecodeError while registering a new account." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44919
User22: so canonical_url is busted
User22: duh
User7: bug 59249 can wait until monday, and be done by matsubara, then
User18: Malone bug 59249 in launchpad-bazaar "Edit branch details form need input validation for non-existent product" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59249
User22: malcc, I'll do it, no worries
User15: User22 Cool, thanks
User7: The top time out (+translate page):
User7: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/30602
User18: Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]
User11: I'm up to date (again) on activity reports
User7: Stuart need to create a cache table so Carlos or Kiko can continue on the code
User7: modification to optimize the +translations page:
User7: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2497
User18: Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Confirmed]
User12: 30602 state still same as last week
User22: yes!
User22: yes!
User14: Its on top of my todo
User12: (i.e. not much work done on it; it's currently conflicting some clean-up work carlos is doing, so we're coordinating that between ourselves)
User7: ok
User7: that's all from matsubara's oops report
User7: User16 on 44919, you can make a band-aid fix locally in our zope, seeing as this oops happens from time to time.  it is an option.
User7: * Bug report report (mpt)
User1: Launchpad has 18 Critical bugs without released fixes. Well done to cprov, malcc, and kiko for committing fixes for several of them recently. The oldest remaining eight are:
User1: * Bug #1558 (Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry), Critical, Confirmed, danilos
User18: Malone bug 1558 in rosetta "Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1558
User1: danilos, this is newly Critical, and it's not clear why from the bug report. Is it really?
User1: * Bug #2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Confirmed, stub, which SteveA has already mentioned
User18: Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
User1: * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Confirmed, Critical, danilos, which SteveA has already mentioned
User18: Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
User12: User1 matsubara said that those type of errors should be deemed critical since a little while ago
User1: * Bug #31308 (Cannot set branch associated to a product series), Critical, In Progress, jamesh
User18: Malone bug 31308 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot set branch associated to a product series" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31308
User1: jamesh, tell us the good news
User22: mpt, it's critical because it's an oopser.
User1: ok
User1: * Bug #42760 (Exception NameNotAvailable raised while trying to create a new msgset from submitted translation), Confirmed, Critical, carlos
User1: * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Confirmed, Critical, carlos
User1: * Bug #46982 (Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2), Confirmed, Critical, carlos
User1: carlos, will you have time for those three this week? Should danilos get one of them? :-)
User21: User1 jamesh working on 31308, I reviewed his code once. Will review again then it's up to the review team and pqm.
User18: Malone bug 42760 in rosetta "Exception NameNotAvailable raised while trying to create a new msgset from submitted translation." [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42760
User18: Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
User18: Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
User1: ddaa, great
User1: and finally
User1: * Bug #48860 ("Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe), Critical, In Progress, bradb
User18: Malone bug 48860 in malone ""Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48860
User1: bradb, do you have a solution sorted out yet?
User10: User1 I'm fixing 42760 right now
User12: User22 specifically, it's because it's raising IntegrityError, according to matsubara
User22: right
User19: User1 No. Some discussion on list, but no conclusion yet.
User10: User1 I will look into 44214 later
User22: which causes the Retry exceptions to kick in
User10: User1 and I need to meet with danilo before starting with 46982
User12: User22 right
User19: User1 the other big issue related to it is fine-tuning who gets notifications about when a bug is marked a dupe.
User22: bradb, User1 we'll sort parts of this out next week, I think.
User1: bradb, do you think it's urgent enough to just do a temporary workaround (like, don't do subscriptions from dups at all) until there's time to implement a more elegant solution?
User22: BjornT had a good suggestion
User22: and we should do it
User19: User1 hm, almost
User22: so let's reconvene next week and get a mini-spec for the mitigation strategy
User22: sans ignore subs for now
User1: carlos, ok, I've marked 42760 as In Progress then :-)
User10: User1 oh, right, I forgot it...
User10: O:-)
User1: And that's all from me, SteveA
User7: thanks mpt
User7: * Production and staging (Stuart)
User7: (stub)
User14: Nothing thrilling is happening on staging except that a new database has been setup for language pack exports on Carbon so asuka should become much more reliable.
User14: I'll grant access via sodium after the meeting to carlos and danilos so it isn't blocked on shell accounts on carbon.
User14: Production systems just had some cherry picks requested by carlos rolled out. I would like to push for fortnightly rollouts again, and skip next weeks rollout unless people cry.
User7: any urgent things to roll out?
User7: good
User14: So no rollout next tuesday, with next scheduled 19th Sep
* bradb won't cry. Release management will need testing.
User7: User14 would you add that date to the status page?
User14: will do
User7: ta
User7: I'm going to jigger around the agenda a bit... don't be alarmed
User7: * Sysadmin requests
User23: User14 did you cherrypicked 4016?
User7: say "I have one!" if you have one, before the end of the count
User7: 6
User7: 5
User7: 4
User7: 3
User7: 2
User21: have one
User14: User23 no?
User7: 1
User7: User21 yes?
User24: sorry, my wireless network went down
User21: User7 same old thing, sudo -u supermirror on vostok
User7: User24 any sysadmin requests?
User23: User14 i sent an email yesterday about that: Cherry pick request: revision 4016
User7: User21 RT number?
User10: no
User7: * SQL object equality (Steve)
User22: SteveA, there's that one for carlos to get shell access on carbon
User21: rt 16533
User12: User22 that's what stub mentioned in "production and staging" above, no?
User22: ah right. just that it's an RT.
User10: User22 hmm, right, but I don't have the number... I forgot it...
User7: after some discussion by email and irc, I think we should implement __eq__, __ne__ and __hash__ for our databvase objects, so that the type and obj.id is taken into account.
User7: to be totally correct, we should take the connection id into account too
User7: but that is way way flaky in sqlobject
User14: User23 Argh.... I didn't highlight the email.
User22: SteveA, right, right.
* stub thinks about moving cherry pick requests to LaunchpadProductionStatus too
User7: so I'd rather have a simple contract we can keep to than have a contract we can't rely on
User7: so, that is my proposal.
User15: User7 +1
User7: any serious worries?
User7: (I realize we don't have spiv or jamesh here, but jamesh was part of the earlier discussion)
User7: anyone interested in implementing it, with tests?
User22: SteveA, +1, but unlikely to be able to implement in the short term.
User12: if it's not short term, I'd be interested
User14: I'm happy to do it but also can't do it short term
User7: ok.  I don't think this is harming anything except one recent soyuz issue by its absence
User22: SteveA, which I've worked around/
User7: so, if it fits into soyuz bugfixing, then great
User7: otherwise, Action on me to document what we'll do
User7: and we'll do it when convenient
User7: thanks for the discussion, particularly stub, kiko, malcc and jamesh
User7: (did I miss anyone?)
User7: * Keep, Bag, Change
User7: 8
User7: 7
User7: 6
User7: 5
User7: 4
User7: 3
User7: 2
User7: 1
User7: 0
User7: thnku
User7: * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
User19: Malone 1.0
User19: ==========
User19: Release management: Quite a few more test failures to fix before landing.
User19: Keeping bugs concise: Nothing new.
User19: Guided filebug: Implemented "most common bugs" API with Francis last week.
User19: Malone docs: Nothing new.
User12: Rosetta 1.0:
User12: - opening edgy for translation: DONE!
User12: - firefox import/export: slow progress (getting up to speed this week again)
User12: - oo import/export: blocked on firefox
User12: - translation review: slow progress (due to langpack improvements, automatic approval of less common import layouts)
User19: Bug tags: Nothing new.
User12: - essential docs: assigned to danilos, need to discuss with jordi
User12: - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
User12: - ui fixes: discussed
User12: - outstanding issues: none
User21: supermirror-smart-server: spiv on vacation this week, reported on target. The goal is to get the smart-server up on launchpad for October 8th althought it's not expected to perform very well at that time.
User21: importd-bzr-native: ddaa started on the cleanups, on track to be complete for lp-1.0.
User21: bzr-roundtrip-svn (postponed): discussion to make bzr-svn acceptable to vcs-imports made good progress. Should yield improved bzr consistency checks for bzr-2.0.
User20: = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
User20: * PPA: blocked on ArchiveRework.
User20: * Archive Rework: blocked on SoyuzTestSystem.
User20: * SoyuzTestSystem: Good progress, currently held up by all the bugs we've already
User20: found in the new code from the sprint.
User20: * Code quality: nothing big since sprint-cleanup.
User20: * General Fixing: good progress,
User20: #30264 (P-a-s fix, needs test in dogfood),
User20: #31609 (Build-notification, need-review),
User20: #35965 (Exceptions in process-upload not communicated to uploader, commited),
User20: #58144 (Backport is rejected if an older backport is already there, needs review)
User20: #58187 (Uploads to frozen should land in unapproved, not be rejected, needs review)
User23: Question Tracker 1.0
User23: ---------------------------------
User23: - SupportTrackerWorkflow: guided request submission in production as of last Thursday. Spec is reviewed and implementation was just started.
User23: - SupportTrackerViews: waiting on completion of SupportTrackerWorkflow.
User23: - SupportTrackerKarma is implemented and in production as of last Tuesday.
User23: - Localization has been dropped as a 1.0 target.  Salgado finished rearranging it into other specs so that we can decide what will be a 1.0 goal and what's not.  Needs input from SteveA.
User23: Random Things 1.0
User23: -------------------------------
User23: - KarmaContext is implemented and in production.
User23: - PersonCreationRationale is almost finished. there are some small issues to sort and salgado needs to write a script to guess the creation rationale for existing profiles.
User23: - DirectPersonRegistration has a tricky issue blocking its implementation, so it needs discussion.
User7: anything else?
User7: thanks
User23: User7 we need to decide what part of infrastructure localization will be part of 1.0
User7: catch up with me next week on that please, if that's okay
User23: User7 no problem
User7: ta
User7: * Three sentences
User15: DONE: Fixed couple of live bugs in rf, lots of work on mawson testing (inc. fixing some undeployed bugs).
User15: TODO: Finish system test on sprint code, deploy, start on ArchiveRework.
User15: BLOCKED: No
User12: DONE: firefox support, bug management and testing, imports, discussions
User12: TODO: bug 30602, ff integration (in progress), other bug fixing
User12: BLOCKED: no
User18: Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
User23: DONE: Test and fix bugs in tt-search on staging; SupportTrackerWorkflow discussion; got fix to bug 52671 reviewed
User23: TODO: SupportTrackerWorkflow implementation
User23: BLOCKED: no, (yeah!)
User18: Malone bug 52671 in launchpad-support-tracker "Support contact implementation shortcomings" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52671
User1: DONE: bugfixing, new templates, administrivia
User1: TODO: RosettaSearch spec, lots of template work
User1: BLOCKED: no CSS or images from Usman yet
User10: DONE: TranslationReview, bug #58168, OO.org language packs, POMsgSetViewRestructuration, bug #58556, Language Pack performance improvements, Debian installer updates, Detected and debugged some missing files in Dapper lang packs.
User10: TODO: bug #42760, POMsgSetViewRestructuration, TranslationReview
User10: BLOCKED: no
User18: Malone bug 58168 in rosetta "packages with .po files in different directories are not imported automatically" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58168
User18: Malone bug 58556 in rosetta "New upstream translations of k3b not imported to Rosetta" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58556
User21: DONE: much email discussion, spec and code review. Email catchup. Importd rollout. Started on python-import and remove-gnuarch
User21: TODO: More of the same
User21: BLOCKED: no
User18: Malone bug 42760 in rosetta "Exception NameNotAvailable raised while trying to create a new msgset from submitted translation." [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42760
User16: DONE: code reviews. various discussions. finished product-bugtracker branch.
User16: TODO: code reviews. bug fixes. continue work on upstream forwarding workflow.
User16: BLOCKED: no
User19: DONE: Various bits of release management and guided filebug. Upstream status filter fixes. Long weekend.
User19: TODO: Fixed RM test failures so I can land it. Get guided filebug up for review.
User19: BLOCKED: No.
User11: DONE: email, IRC
User11: TODO: product queue
User11: BLOCKED: no
User14: TODO: Cache for +translations
User14: DONE: Caught up from leave, firefighting
User14: BLOCKED: No
User19: s/TODO: Fixed/TODO: Fix/
User7: matsubara: DONE: bug triage, oops report analysis, support tickets gardening, fixed leftovers from # 52880
User20: DONE: bug fixing, assist SoyuzTestSystem, stub.test_emails discussion, demise a-f discussion
User20: TODO: help malcc to finish SoyuzTestSystem, get my branches reviewed, check performance of new version of a-f in mawson
User20: BLOCKED: solution for stub.test_emails (stub),  demise a-f solution (kiko)
User7: matsubara: TODO: more of the same plus more code fix
User22: DONE: launchpad report, soyuz fixes, malone python comment rendering, other small bugfixes
User7: User4 DONE: code review, product-release-finder fixes (bugs 58332 and 58847), productseries branch support (bug 31308), spec out AutomaticBugBranchLinks
User18: Malone bug 58332 in launchpad "Remove the URL cache from product-release-finder" [Untriaged,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58332
User18: Malone bug 58847 in launchpad "product-release-finder HTTPWalker " [Untriaged,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58847
User7: matsubara: BLOCKED: no
User18: Malone bug 31308 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot set branch associated to a product series" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31308
User7: User4 TODO: code reviews, AutomaticBugBranchLinks, URL class stuff
User7: User4 BLOCKED: no
User22: TODO: help Soyuz and Malone out some more
User22: BLOCKED: no
User7: DONE: management, ui stuff
User7: TODO: management, ui stuff
User7: BLOCKED: no
User7: cprov, User14 can you unblock?
User7: User22 demise a-f solution for cprov ?
User14: User7 I'll try and have a look tomorrow
User14: User20 ^^
User22: SteveA, read your email <wink>
User20: User14 thanks
User7: User1 about "blocked" lines, would it help if there were a standard "BLOCKED: no" for not being blocked?
User7: then you could grep it out?
User1: that would help
User7: User1 note it on the agenda for next week, and we'll ask people to do that
User12: we've had them today with grep -i ;)
User1: yeah, case-insensitive no(.*) should work
User15: Blocked: [Nn] o\.?
User7: One more item:
User15: Hmm, yes, my regex sucks, I'll go back to sleep
User12: except mpt's, whose has been "BLOCKED: no images..." ;)
User19: /[Nn] on?/
User1: aha, good catch danilos :-)
User14: (?i)no.*
User7: from jamesh on the python bugtracker competition
User7: Python bug tracker competition status:
User7: The Python infrastructure committee plans to make a decision on 1st
User7: October, and send a recommendation to python-dev.
User7: This week Brett has been doing mini-reviews of the various aspects of
User7: the different trackers.  I sent out an email with his thoughts on
User7: Launchpad.  If there are specific info people want me to forward to
User7: him, please email me.
User7:
User22: SteveA, I thought of replying to his python-dev email. should I?
User7: User22 sure, just make sure jamesh knows
User22: SteveA, did you paste in matsubara's 3 sentences?
User7: I did
User22: sonderful
User7: okay that's all
User7: thanks for coming.
User7: MEETING ENDS
* malcc -> Lunch
User22: YAWN
User14: User23 I'm running tests with 4016 cherry picked now
User23: User14 thanks!
User22: thanks stub, another topcrasher bites the dust
User10: thanks dudes
User10: User14 thanks for the cherry picks!
User23: User14 btw, I sent you an email asking for a review of my similarity search algorithm when you were away, do you still have it?
User11: thanks stub. the hordes of KDE translators are now happy :)
User22: malcc, did you manage to test my patch for bug 59186?
User18: Malone bug 59186 in soyuz "buildd-queue-builder broken with odd SQLObject problems" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59186
User14: User23 I replied earlier today I think.
User14: User23 I'm afraid this may now make you the resident text search expert btw ;)
User23: User14 lol
* stub tapes a kick me sign on flacoste's back
* danilos -> lunch
User23: User14 hold on, i have some more requests coming along the way regarding the fti implementation
User22: flacoste, ooooh! I have a bug for you to fix then!
* flacoste looks around for a hole to find cover
User15: User22 Yes, it works
User22: malcc, ah! grand. and kudos to SteveA for pointing out that security proxies were likely to be the issue here.
User15: User22 Still getting some crackful results in which builds are queued, although getting better
User22: malcc, really? architecture issues?
User15: User22 Mostly just regressions. First version re-queued every arch-all build done on previous releases, my first attempt to fix that introduced a different issue I've now also fixed
User15: User22 The latest version seems to have re-queued about 40 builds which were already done on dapper i386, I'm still looking at why and whether or not they're right
User15: Well, still looking after lunch
* malcc -> Out to buy eggs
User22: malcc, okay, cool. send me a patch once you're happy so I can see what was up
User10: SteveA, User22 I have a question for you (or anyone that think is able to answer it)
User22: the answer is 42
User10: User22 ;-)
User10: would be possible that we create a new row/SQLObject as part of the traversal code and then, try to use it from the view got after that traversal but due cache problems we don't see it yet?
User10: it's all in the same transaction
User7: you'd need to flush updates after adding it
User7: until we use a better ORM
User10: so that's possible...
User10: ok
User10: User22 that's the problem with https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/57312
User18: Malone bug 57312 in rosetta "Translation form fails with NameNotAvailable exception" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]
User10: User7 thanks
* carlos tries to get a test for this problem...
User22: carlos, hmmm. can you explain?
User10: User22 we don't have yet a POMsgSet for one of the messages we have in the submitted form
User10: we create that object
User10: and in other part of the code, we try to fetch it
User10: we don't get it, so we create it again
User10: and then, we get a duplicate
User10: (the exception name is completely clueless)
User10: User22 at least' that's the only explanation I'm able to find
User22: carlos, object creation isn't cached in SQLObject.
User22: so that doesn't seem to be the case
User22: only updates are cached
User10: hmm
User22: and flush_database_updates solves that
* carlos goes to have lunch to refresh a bit and do a second round on this problem...
User10: kiko, User7 Thanks
* carlos -> lunch
User22: carlos, anytime
User18: New bug: #59339 in launchpad "Right clicking on menu bar item behaves unexpectedly and loads a page" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59339
User14: User23 4016 is in production
User23: User14 great, thanks a lot!
User22: thanks stub
User22: one more oopser bites the dust
User25: hey
User10: kiko-zzz: sleeping? so early?
User10: Is there any reviewer with some time to do a fast review ?
User10: BjornT, SteveA?
User16: User10 how large is it?
User10: 98 lines included tests
User10: it's quite short
User10: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file4uLlzv.html
User21: User16 if you are in reviewing mood, it would be nice if you could do https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/david/launchpad/remove-gnuarch/full-diff
User21: it's the last functional change to importd before starting actual removal of arch support. And since I'm already started on the removal in another branch, it would help to get that branch landed soon.
User10: It's a tentative to fix https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/57312 because I'm not able to find a way to reproduce it in our local launchpad, but it fails on staging or production...
User18: Malone bug 57312 in rosetta "Translation form fails with NameNotAvailable exception" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]
User16: User21 we'll see. i am in reviewing mood, but my review queue is quite long at the moment. it's a small diff, so i should get around to it, though.
User16: User10 ok, i'll review it after i've finished the review i'm doing now.
User10: User16 thank you very much
User21: The season of huge diffs with more - than + is opening, but it's not yet time to reap the fruits :)
* danilos is out
User12: later
User10: danilo[out] : see you!
User18: New bug: #59368 in soyuz "Retrying failed builds in later releases" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59368
User18: New bug: #59377 in rosetta "Orignal author names are not keeped in PO files" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59377
User16: User10 i sent the review via email.
User10: User16 ok, thanks
User18: New bug: #59379 in malone "Need to allow a third party to set bug contact for a package" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59379
User19: User16 just wondering, why did you reject and add a task on bug 52330 instead of retargeting?
User18: Malone bug 52330 in malone "Reassign bug to binary package should just work" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52330
User19: that problem happens often enough that I think we might have to make it more obvious that retargeting is a possibility
User16: User19 i didn't. if you look at the activity log, you can see that both tasks existed before i rejected one of them.
User19: ah, maybe it was matsubara
User16: seems like it was some random user who did it
User21: bradb++
User21: When I moved bugs from launchpad to launchpad-bazaar, I did not realize I could retarget rschultz@example.net.
User21: However, after going to the trouble of creating+deleting bug reports, I looked a bit further and found it.
User19: User16 oh, indeed, johnlynn
User21: So, when you look for it, it's easy to find in my experience.
User19: User21 yeah, i'll file a bug on that
* ddaa enthusiastically remove gnarly dependences because it's causing trouble for remove-gnuarch
User21: According to the theory that LoC should be considered a liability and not an asset
User21: I am going to noticeably increase the net worth of Launchpad in the next few days :)
User16: User21 i reviewed your branch. r=me
User21: User16 got another not-quite-trivial-but-almost patch (for cscvs) going down the pipe. Think you could look at it tonight?
User16: User21 sorry, no. i need to take a break now, and go to sleep soon.
User21: okay. Thanks for the review, the patch is now in pqm
User18: New bug: #59389 in malone "The possibility of retargeting a bug should be made more obvious" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59389
User19: User1 ping
User26: @nick Ubugtu
User21: @nick Mordor
User21: nice, privileges
User6: orning
User21: hey lifeless
User21: putting up a branch I'm sure you'll love to review ;)
User21: sftp://devpad.canonical.com/home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/remove-gnuarch
User21: removes all arch stuff from importd
User27: oeh!
User21: hey LarstiQ, wassup?
User27: User21 I'd vote +1 on that branch ;)
User21: User27 well, it does not affect users in any way
User21: it's not introducing any functional change, it's just garbage collection
* LarstiQ likes janitorial work
launchpad
Ubuntu IRC