User1: User3 Yeah, I switched them over when I was working as an advisor.
User1: User3 I haven't found anything better than Launchpad for supporting a process that involves code reviews (which is also something I introduced while I was an advisor).
User1: User3 In general, I think LP is a great tool for teams.
User1: User3 I think GitHub has a bit of an advantage for developer-to-developer collaboration, because it's UI is really focused on that problem.
User2: Project windmill-db-devel build #247: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 8 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/247/
User3: User1 I'd like us to improve on d2d
User3: not sure how
User1: User3 Yeah, it's a tricky problem.  I think the answer lies in UI.
User4: Argh.
User4: UnparsableDependencies again :(
User1: User3 I think the pieces (bugs, reviews, etc.) are all in place... the Launchpad UI needs to make them more powerful.
User1: User3 I think Launchpad is a bit hamstrung by Ubuntu.  Ubuntu has all kinds of weird and particular requirements that no one else cares about, and that take a lot of energy to maintain...
User4: s/maintain/ignore/
User4: *cough* Blueprints
User1: User3 If we didn't have to deal with those problems we'd be able to focus our energy on problems that are more widely felt by users.
User1: User4 Perhaps, yes.
User4: But yes.
User1: And I'm not discounting the power of Launchpad in terms of the Ubuntu project.
User1: I think it's clear that Ubuntu could exist without Launchpad...
User4: Nobody before has tried to combine a distribution and open source project and commercial project everything-tracker, I don't think.
User4: And it sort of shows :/
User1: But it means that the folks that who use GitHub look at Launchpad and see it as not solving their problem.
User1: User4 Yeah, it's a tricky problem, for sure.
User1: User4 I think a big problem is that (and maybe I'm completely wrong here, I hope I am) there is no UI designer focused on Launchpad, focused on making it coherent, and with enough manpower behind them to make real change.
User1: User4 Launchpad's UI has been getting steadily getting better, but it is also very confusing and could do with a lot of polish/love.
User1: I sometimes think we're too driven by technological problems and not enough by user problems.  I guess that's a reality of having a lot of technical debt, which I know Launchpad has and I also know that a tremendous effort has been put in to reducing it.
User4: We are now actually in a position where we can reduce it, and we are doing so.
User1: It does feel like we're getting to a point where we'll be seeing the benefits of that investment, though.
User4: lifeless has saved the world, again.
User1: User4 Yeah, that's my sense too.
User1: User4 It's a tricky problem and I think the team has done an excellent job in tackling it head on.
User1: That said, systems like GitHub, which I guess don't have that same problem, seem to be moving forward quickly.
User4: GitHub doesn't have massive tech debt and design flaws from 2004 :(
User1: In Fluidinfo, for example, we use Launchpad but we're talking about doing some interesting things and I see people saying, "In order for this to work we'd have to ditch Launchpad... because the crowds fwells@example.com."
User1: User4 Yep.
User4: They also do a lot less.
User1: Yep.
User4: But they do most of it well, or at least shinily.
User1: But also, Launchpad does much more than most people care about.
User1: And the things that most people care about, it doesn't do amazingly well.
User1: I still think Launchpad is the best collaboration tool for teams... but I don't feel confident saying that for individuals.
User1: It's tricky business having a large and varied audience to cater to.
User1: Okay, bedtime here.  Thanks for being awesome, folks. :)
User2: Project windmill-devel build #47: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/47/
User2: Yippie, build fixed!
User2: Project db-devel build #524: FIXED in 5 hr 12 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/524/
User2: Project windmill-db-devel build #248: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/248/
User2: Project windmill-db-devel build #249: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/249/
User2: Project db-devel build #525: FAILURE in 5 hr 13 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/525/
User5: lifeless, hi?
User5: is there a global acl on dev.l.n?
User5: skaet doesn't seem able to edit anything
User2: Yippie, build fixed!
User2: Project db-devel build #526: FIXED in 5 hr 11 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/526/
User6: User5 on https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/feature-install-cleanup/+merge/60279, should you be using u'on' rather than 'on'?
 * jml doesn't know
User6: but the old code did.
User6: User5 on https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/feature-install-cleanup/+merge/60279, should you be using u'on' rather than 'on'?
User5: hi jml
User5: good question
User6: the old code did. I don't really know the answer myself.
User5: the names and values are unicode
User5: the code using it would have to be being unusually pedantic to notice, but it's possible
User5: i'll fix it
User6: User5 thanks.
User6: User5 can you land branches, or should I land it for you?
User5: i can!
User5: it took a few attempts but i'm pretty sure it will work now
User6: User5 sweet.
User5: indeed
User5: thanks for the speedy review
User7: User5 storm and pythons postgresql driver are unusually pedantic
User5: hi
User5: it probably wouldn't be comparing that string, and if the test passes i guess it's not rejecting it from the update
User5: statement
User5: but i changed it anyhow
User5: my attempt to land was blocked by https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/750274
User8: Bug #750274: librarian.txt fails sometimes <build-infrastructure> <librarian> <spurious-test-failure> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/750274 >
User3: User5 I haven't looked at the diff; was just letting you know
User5: hopefully it will pass on a second attempt
User5: thansk
User3: User6 hi
User3: User6 are we going to try to complete that catchup before the ensemble call; I think it has bearing on how to try to do it
User3: User6 e.g. can we do it on monday morning
User3: User5 I'm having trouble finding skaet online ; if she would like to chat she can ping me anytime
User3: User5 also yes there is an acl on help.lp.net; spammers love that site
User3: User5 do you know here lp username ?
User5: skaet
User5: but perhaps oh i don't know
User5: ~canonical could be added or something?
User3: I don't know the history
User3: I'll add her now
User3: and probably talk to flacoste / mrevell when I see them about ~canonical
User3: User4 how big is the supportted archive, do you know?
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