User1: Can aliases override commands?
User2: yes
User3: For instance, I've aliased 'rm' to 'rm --keep' since the option was added.
User1: mmmm
User4: commit to commit --strict :)
User4: now...
User1: yes I've just confirmed
User3: 'course, maybe it's a bug that options aren't recursive so that actually works   ;)
User1: I saw some revert backup files in a directory
User4: I'm trying to find the revno on trunk that introduced a particular change
User1: and I have revert = revert --no-backup
User1: was wondering if it wasn't working
User1: but I guess they were old
User1: User4 annotate should be able to get you the revno at which a particular line was last modified
User1: (or a list of revnos?)
User4: it gives a dotted revno
User4: I want the mainline revno
User1: aaah
User3: You'd have to track forward to where it was merged.
User1: so it was modified in a merge revision and you want the merge revision?
User1: yeah
User3: Though ISTM there was some discussion about a flag to annotate to do just that...
User1: *in a merged revision
User1: is there a way to list merge revisions, incidentally
User5: User2 hi
User2: hey lifeless
User5: User2 so where/how are you using stacked branches?
User2: in bzr-builder
User2: using shared-repos is a pain, so stacked branches seemed the obvious choice
User2: it's just doing it as it needs the tree at minimum, and then perhaps enough history to do a merge
User2: but never full history
User2: it's not necessarily the best solution though
User5: there is significant work needed in bzr to fix this bug
User5: we're moving to shared repos or something like it as the main way of working
User5: and downloading all the history should be faster than stacking anyway
User5: actually thats the key point
User5: stacking -> VFS operations -> slow.
User5: stream all history -> fast.
User5: stacking with a local tree requires downloading all the tree data over vfs *anyway*
User5: so ignoring shared repositories, not stacking should be faster in this use case regardless
User6: bzr-buildbot-net... a botnet for Bazaar? Cool. Er, um.
User6: :)
User7: hello all
User5: hi
User7: how's stuff?
User7: it's hot and humid here
User7: more humid than hot though
User5: well
User5: I've been landing lots of little 2a-default fixes
User5: and spivs network delta thing is landable now
User7: ah that is good
User5: I spent some time with the u1 folk this morning - they are fsyncing in their dirstate equivalent... and its slow ;)
User7: heh
User7: i guess at least they know what platform it's running on
User7: well, kinda
User5: lynne, stephane and I are doing yum cha & a movie on sunday; the hoyts website is _terrible_
User8: Landable, and in PQM's queue!
User7: that's nice
User7: woo
User5: User9 don't suppose you are still around
User5: User9 WT3.update_basis wants xml inventories from the repo
User7: User5 generally i think fsync is a poor deal: may not give you much protection and slow with it
User5: yep
User7: one property we can rely on is that files written a long time ago and not touched are unlikely to be affected by future writes
User7: only by media failure
User7: so something like obsolete_packs feels write except
User7: - it might be nice not to remove them at all
User5: right? :)
User7: heh, thanks freud
User7: and s/remove/move
User7: - it would be good to automatically detect the latest consistent state, without relying on any fs access
User7: blah my fingers are flaky today
User7: i meant, without relying on any fs ordering guarantees
User5: yes
User5: thats the tricky bit
User7: conceptually if you could read the whole file and compare it to a hash at the end
User7: that would get away from assuming that if a file's been renamed, all the data previously written to it made it to disk
User5: oh, complete tangent - http://eu.squid-cache.org:8081/
User7: and you wouldn't need to sync
User5: thats the squid hudson instance
User5: what I'd like to get away from is the root node
User5: its the only really fragile bit today
User5: (not that its failed ever as far as we know)
User7: meaning the pack names?
User5: .bzr/repository/pack-names, yes
User7: mm
User5: I don't mean 'dont have a root node'
User7: the other thing that's reasonable to assume is that the fs can keep its own structures coherent, specifically directories
User7: but then you get into trouble with places that can't list directories, so it may not help much
User7: it's something to think about for wt metadata at least
User5: wt metadata is less of a problem I think
User5: much less at stake, and less likely to be over e.g. http
User3: Corrupted dirstate would be even less of an issue if we had a revert --blat-me-out-a-fresh-dirstate-already...
User5: User3 well, there are things that dirstate does today we will definitely fix ;)
User7: true
User5: User3 but over and above that there are cases repositories [and branches] are expected to handle gracefully that wt's aren't...
User3: I mean, you'd lose add's...   no big deal.  Lose rm's with the file still around...  not too bad.  Lose mv's...  that's the big hiccup.
User5: or aren't-so-much
User3: But when your alternative is to sit around with every op blowing up on the dirstate, or creating a new checkout and manually moving files around to simulate it, as people get told to do...
User7: rebooting karmic, biab (i hope)
User7: User3 i agree that revert op would be good
User7: thought it's kind of a kludge
User3: Oh, it totally is.  But I like software that gives me big hammers to power through unpleasant situations once I'm in 'em.
User5: hmm, do you use BSD?
User5: :>
User3: Sure, but that's not powering through; BSD is dying, everybody knows that.
User5: oh
User5: what BSD flavour/version do you use?
User3: (and it's really BAD at it too, 'cuz it's been doing it for more'n a decade, and it's still twitching.  Just can't do ANYTHING right...)
User3: I'm on Free.
User5: (given that macosx has ~= desktop share with linux, its hardly dying)
User5: what version?
User3: FreeBSD 8.0-BETA2 #0: Sat Aug  1 04:27:00 CDT 2009     to be Pacific.
User5: and what arch
User5: care to run a squid buildslave
User3: (RELENG_7 from Feb on another box, an old REL_6 elsewhere....   bunches of 'em)
User5: we have 6.4 under test
User3: Workstation's amd64.
User5: nothing recent
User3: Oh, I can do occasional build/report type things.  Not really in a position to lay out automation, though.
User5: http://wiki.squid-cache.org/BuildFarm
User5: read the 'Activating a slave machine (as the machine owner)' section
User5: if that sounds ok; then woot
User5: and if you want to run it sporadically thats fine too
User3: Hm.  Well, maybe I'll get a chance to look christian63@example.com.
User3: It'd be nice to have some ballparks on resource utilization involved on that page.
User5: theres ~ a commit a day
User5: a build can be as short as 30 minutes
User3: What does a run eat, though?  50 megs of disk?  2 gig?  Does it churn the CPU for 10 minutes, or kill the IO subsystem for an hour?
User5: good questions
User5: the build includes make distcheck
User5: and some tests
User3: 91.69.162.6 build takes
User3: 133.100u 40.812s 2:57.68 97.8%  6213+2442k 0+50io 997pf+0w
User5: thats not the autotest :)
User5: which does some more work
User3: Yah, I expect so, seeing ~30+ minute times in some clicking around the buildfarm thing
User5: the 2h one is a nuts slow machine
User5: # du -sh 3.HEAD-i386-FreeBSD-6.4
User5: 119M    3.HEAD-i386-FreeBSD-6.4
User5: we do a minimal build
User5: and a build with everything we can turn on turned on
User9: User5 so I think you're saying that WT3 + 2a is broken... IIRC the WT3 code can handle when the basis inventory is not present, and just fetch it from the repo.
User9: So can we just have it skip caching the inventory?
User8: User9 btw, I'm not sure exactly what you fixed in InterDifferingSerializer recently, but I still see stacking-related test failures with a 2a target if I use IDS.  Your test changes don't notice, but assertCanStreamRevision does.
User8: User9 so I suspect something still isn't quite right.
User9: User8 I won't say I caught everything, but I certainly made it a lot better
User8: Oh, I don't doubt you made it better :)
User9: given that your change to IDS was causing it to store the current inventory under the name parent_id
User5: User9 we have tests that test that it caches eventually
User9: User5 if self.branch.repository.supports_chks: don't cache
User5: User9 I'm submitting an implementation of _iter_inventory_xmls
User9: so, given that caching the xml is probably going to end up *slower*, I don't see the benefit
User9: and it sort of hurts in the long run
User5: its for WT3
User5: its an extremely corner case
User9: but it leaves a get_inventory_xml lying around
User9: and now functional
User5: I know, but we use it from two places
User5: bundles and wt3
User5: we use the conceptual functionality, I mean.
User5: honestly, having repository.deserialise_inventory != _serializer.read_inventory_from_string is more of an issue for me
User5: when you say caching the xml is slower, do you mean 'merge etc operations on wt3 will be faster using CHKInventory' ?
User5: because, I'm not entirely sure I buy that, not without profiling/testing.
User9: User5 given how slow it is to build the xml... hard to say for sure
User9: I suppose if merge has to read the whole inventory anyway
User9: it would be paying that on each action
User5: User9 so, I don't have a windows machine, which is kindof needed to properly measure this, as win32 is the only place we suggest/encourage wt3
User9: User5 hm... I don't use it there
User5: 'diff', 'status' operations are both full tree
User9: WT4 works just fine
User5: User9 bialix often says he uses wt3
User9: I think that is more win98
User9: but now that isn't even true anymore
User9: since we switched to CreateFile
User9: LockFileEx doesn't exist in Win98
User9: which was how we took the os lock in the past
User5: with that patch, we're down to FAILED (failures=19, errors=17, known_failure_count=22)
User5: on my reduce workflow
User5: when they are fixed, I'll be doing a full run
User5: User9 I think https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/336383 is fixed, do you?
User10: Launchpad bug 336383 in bzr "branching dev6 when ghosts are present fails" [High,Triaged]
User9: User5 given that --2a works with bzr.dev, I'm pretty confident it is fixed
User6: Hm. So, if I have a branch that has revisions not on mainline, but there is nothing on mainline since the branch was taken,
User6: why would merging that branch back create a mess?
User6: (ie, I could pull, but I've been out of that habit)
User5: what sort of mess?
User6: I was astonished to see merge conflicts and worse highly incorrect choices on the stuff that didn't conflict.
User6: User5 ^
User5: did it warn about criss-cross merge?
User6: n
User6: o
User6: (at least, not recently. Few weeks ago)
User5: check the scrollback please; its not very obvious
User6: sorry?
User5: in your console?
User6: what's a scrollback
User6: oh
User6: gotcha. Checking
User6: _oh_
User6: so, I was bad and didn't run `bzr status` in the 'mainline' branch before running the merge.
User6: And surprise, it was "Run bzr update"
User6: I hate that
User5: I'm confuse - what commands did you run?
User6: I would have thought it wouldn't let me merge or something.
User6: User5
User6: $ bzr merge ../fix-text-replacement
User6: User5 that's it
User6: but then, just now, I ran
User6: $ bzr status
User6: and saw
User6: working tree is out of date, run 'bzr update'
User5: ah
User5: so it got a mangled merge.
User6: (there were some revert --no-backups in there)
User6: I assume it won't bork now that I've run update
 * AfC tries again
User5: should be fine
User6: All changes applied successfully
User6: So as noted, I've backed myself into this corner before. Quite frequently, in fact.
User5: you need a flashingblinkinbeepinlight
User6: I must admit it's in the category of things I should like to think I couldn't do to myself with bzr
User6: User5 I need it to say
User6: working tree is out of date, run 'bzr update' before you run 'bzr merge', stopping now so you can fix it
User6: User5 though if you've got a spare blinkenlight, I'll borrow it
User6: yeah, it's clean. Build & test passed
User6: Hm.
User5: how long does a java-gnome program take to start
User6: Not sure if that counts as a bug report, but it sure is a "experienced bzr user managing to screw up, fyi"
User5: yeah
User5: I'd love to make it better
User6: User5 {shrug} < 1 second?
User6: User5 but GTK & window manager & X sometimes take a long time to do first presentation of a new GtkWindow. That's not anything I can do anything about; http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/doc/api/org/gnome/gtk/Widget.html#showAll() :)
User6: It also takes longer when the person who is supposed to be typing `make test` is typing in an IRC channel instead :)
User5: :>
User11: what is the bzr "equivalent" to svn's switch (for a branch, not a checkout)-- in terms of appropriateness for upgrading code to a new tagged version
User5: switch
User5: oh, not a checkout
User5: bzr pull --overwrite
User11: ah okay, i'll experiment with that. thanks
 * igc1 lunch
User8: Gar, PQM failed my branch after running about 90% of the tests (test_scenarios).  Oh well, resubmitted...
User5: User8 :(
User5: User8 https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+activereviews - I'm trying to dominate the page :)
User8: Heh.
User5: failures=12, errors=16,
User5: the numbers, they are shrinkin
User3: I can resend my log of test failures if that'll help   ;p
User5: of wha
User5: t
User3: Well, bzr.
User3: I presumed you were bemoaning the cursed fate of numeric shrinkage.  I'm all about being helpful   :)
User5: thanks
User12: Hello, I have dont a few commits on a system of which I forgot to set whoami on... is there a way to change the commiter name and email on past commits?
User5: you can use uncommit + shelve to pop them off
User5: then commit again
User5: so
User5: uncommit
User5: shelve --all
User5: uncommit
User5: shelve --all
User5: uncommit
User5: commit <new options>
User5: unshelve
User5: commit <new options>
User5: unshelve
User5: commit <new options>
User5: would be how you do it for 3 revisions
User12: when doing shelve --all i'm getting an error to where it can't acquire a lock on .bzr/checkout/dirstate etc etc
User12: doesn't look like anything has it open
User7: User5 could https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/377261 be resolved by your delta fixes?
User10: Launchpad bug 377261 in bzr ""AssertionError: name u'COMPILING' already in parent" in _generate_inventory when running "bzr update"" [High,Confirmed]
User5: yes, I expect it wouldn't wedge itself now
User5: EODing
User5: User6 is libjava-gnome-java on ubuntu your project?
User5: or the other one
User6: User5 uh,
User6: User5 http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/4.0/get/ubuntu.php
User6: User5 from that PPA, yes
User6: (sync from Debian is rather behind, I gather)
User6: Guillaume has done a nice job of that package, and I nudged him on the few things that caught my eye with respect to how it was being built. So as far as I know that's good to go.
User6: User5 I'm going to be on my way out the door shortly, but we can always chat further in #java-gnome on gimpnet should you have project specific questions.
User5: ok
User5: karmic has 4.0.9
User5: debian has 4.0.7 only
User5: so its something else
User6: User5 I guess I should take an interest in bugging someone about that, then.
User6: Where's Peter :)
User5: http://packages.qa.debian.org/j/java-gnome.html
User6: Hey look! Zero bugs :)
User5: zaroo!
User7: hi lifeless
User7: do you want me to do anything more on 2a test failures, or is it all in flight in that branch?
User7: i have probably about 3 hours here and am looking for some juicy fruit in small pieces
User5: User7 hi
User5: I'm down to a small number of failures
User5: there are two conceptual things to do
User5: 1) drive that to zarooo
User5: 2) run the full test suite again to find things missed in the first pass
User5: both of those would be useful
User7: i could probably do reviews or finish john's changes for apport
User5: I'll be picking it up again on Monday.
User5: I think getting this branch ready is essentially the most important thing we have; as its critical path for getting feedback from early testers of the impact of the change
User5: theres also 3 or 4 more changes up for review from that branch
User7: yep
User5: and after we finish the branch it needs a review
User7: i just don't want to churn by investigating or fixing things you've already done
User5: I'd love it if you kept the branch rolling along
User7: oh i guess you'll be finishing soon
User5: its all either a) in the branch or b) not investigated
User5: User7 I finished an hour ago - the perks of starting at 6:15
User7: kk
User5: I've been spinning off little branches; if you keep the branch moving I'd encourage you to do that so that the final thing isn't a review headache.
User6: User5 [I commented the Ubuntu bug about java-gnome 4.0.12]
User7: User5 yeah that's why i was splitting them off
User5: User7 right, I just made branches instead:)
User7: instead of branches and bugs?
User7: mm
User5: if we really need a bug for every change that lands, I know a CMM lvl 3 consultant. :)
User5: though that should be cmmi these days, I guess.
User6: User5 if you pay me enough, I'll help you convince your boss not to do that :)
User5: :P
User7: i'm really thrilled wine was so easy
User5: wine?
User7: the win32 implementation
User5: I'm totally lost :)
User6: That would be pronounced whine.
User7: i just sent mail
User7: if you install it and then install win32 python you can run bzr in a win32 environment from within your regular unix workspace
User5: oh right
User6: User7 you should have a chat with Erik de Castro Lopo about his experiences with that & automated builds & automated testing. Quite successful for libsoundfile and secret rabbit code, I gather.
User5: cool
User7: mm
User7: he might have mentioned it
User7: i anticipated it would be more trouble than it has been so far
User7: of course that may just mean.... *splat*
User7: but for example
User7: % winepython ./bzr missing http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/doc
User7: works
User7: running ssh may be hard
User3: Funny.  I was kinda looking forward, when I built this workstation, to seeing how much better stuff through wine performed...  didn't really think it through though.
User13: Hello, today when trying to commit my project to LaunchPad I'm getting the following error:  bzrlib.errors.TooManyConcurrentRequests
 * AfC waves g'weekend
User7: User13  that's probably a followon from something else
User7: did you get a previous weekend
User7: cheerio afc
User5: User3 how so?
User3: Oh, I carefully avoided thinking about wine's stunning capabilities on a 64 bit OS...
User5: lp is down
User5: User3 I play WoW on wine on my i7
User3: Well, theoretically it might work if it were built as an i386 binary.
User13: Hmmm, when I do a bzr update, I get a notice that says bazaar.launchpad.net has refused the SSH connection.  Any ideas?
User3: But that would take fiddling by itself, never mind that I'd also have to build 32 bit versions of half of X and a bunch of other stuff that it links to...
User7: User13 there's a problem with that system
User7: people are working on it
User5: User13 launchpad has just suffered a problem, and we're fixing it now
User7: (i hope)
User13: User7 User5 oh ok thanks for the info!  will do local commit :)
User7: we really need a system status page
User7: User5 i'm *this* close to just creating a Launchpad system status page on help
User5: google appserver + N buttons, anyone can click, everyone can see
User5: and have it do a ping on request to the various servers.
User7: i thought just on the wiki
User7: even being manually updated would be an advance
User5: if auth is down you can't update it
User7: interesting point
User7: is that common?
User14: hi all
User7: hi vila
User15: greetings vila
User14: power outage here ~4 hours ago, just finished restarting everything :-)
 * fullermd christian63@example.com.
 * vila waves back
User14: hey pigy, poolie
User15: vila, just you joke about my nick :p
User14: rats, no, low coffee => typo :)
User14: wow, ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused ???
User16: User14 yeah. (hi btw! :-) ) cherry pick that went sour.  should be good now.
User3: User14 You're only allowed to connect via htpps   ;>
User14: hi spm ! Great, confirmed, works now
User14: User3 got that wrong ! Should have been hhtps :)
User3: Ah!  No wonder it wasn't working for me...
User14: anyway, I use a patched /etc/services just in case, so it works for me even with the typo....
User16: User14 you need: "apt-get install sl" as well then. for those "ls <--> sl" moments
User14: tsk tsk, sl is aliased to show-loom around here, totally different beast :)
User16: for shame. having a train scroll across one's screen is entertaining!
User7: spiv, how did you go with the delta patch?
User17: If I merge some specific changes, can I tell my target branch that it is up to date with source somehow?
User17: I want to merge 1-4, 5-10
User17: err. 1-3, 5-10
User3: i.e., not bring in 4?
User7: but pretend you did?
User7: after doing the merges
User7: do 'bzr merge source'
User7: then 'bzr revert .'
User7: this will keep the merge marker but revert the file changes
User8: User7 landed!
User7: then commit
User7: woo way to go
User7: have a weekend on the house
User8: Hah.
User17: User3 exactly
User7: is it nice and fast?
User3: Well, you could do three merges, doing as poolie said on the middle one.
User8: Actually, it's a pretty busy weekend, weddings and things, but I'll be sure to enjoy it :)
User3: Another option is to just merge everything, then make another commit rolling back 4 afterward.  That may be clearer.
User17: Thank you. Worked like a charm.
User3: Either is appropriate if you don't want the changes in 4; it's still in the history though, so if you want to not have it for reasons like "that version contains my PGP passphrase" or the like, it won't do what you want.
User5: User8 after some testing, say wed/thur we should ask for a cp to launchpad production
User5: User8 to get larger scale know-how.
User8: User5 +1
User14: User8 congrats for the wedding and enjoy :-)
User8: User14 well, my wedding was a while ago now :)  By I can pass on a your congratulations to my friend if you like ;)
User14: lol, sorry for the misunderstanding then :-)
 * igc1 dinner
User18: I need some advice. I have central bzr server where all finsihed stuff present. I have MANY local branches that either mirrors of branches on central server or they're feature branches merged or not merged yet. Sometimes I feel the need to reduce this burden and clean all mirrors or finished feature branches from the disk. How you deal with this?
User19: User18 I use the bzr-removable plugin.
User14: User18 I just delete (rm -fr) the merged branches when I grow tired of seeing them
User18: bzr-removable? I'll check it, perhaps it's what I need
User18: User14 it's not easy to do for me.
User14: User18 But the biggest picture is that I'd like a tool to help me track all the branches I'm working on.
User18: User14 after merge of feature branch I need to test it on real hardware (I'm embedded system engineer) so sometimes I need to fix something after testing
User18: this is the problem
User18: I can't run buildbot to auto test my firmware ;-)
User14: bzr-removable is a step in the right direction but doesn't address needs like: are my plugins up-to-date ?
User14: User18 in that case it means you're not done with the branch, when I said merged, I abused the term to mean, I'm done with it
User18: well, we build the final product as collection of many smaller components. So problem for me is the amount of different branches for different components
User18: it begins to out of my control
User14: I use 'check' with some success on embedded software projects where only the high levels of the application couldn't be tested automatically...
User14: argh, several uprocs involved or just software components ?
User18: several devices involved
User18: main PC with Linux with several software components too
User18: because main software works with real hardware (via COM-ports or USB) it's not easy to unittest it
User14: backward/forward compatibility involved or do you deploy on all components at once ?
User18: backward compatibility -- yes, very hard
User18: for some hardware I have branch for every customer we support
User18: just because I have memory restrictions and unable to build universal firmware
User14: so, your manager knows about the suport costs right ?
User18: we very small company. I'm main dev and manager as one man
User14: User18 ha ! Of course you have memory restrictions ! Where will be the fun in working in embedded software otherwise !!!!
User18: yeah
User14: well, your *boss* knows about the costs ? Or if it's your own company, *you* know about the support costs :)
User18: wgrant, User14 description of bzr-removable is very promising! thansk for the tip
User14: Automated tests are all about transferring support costs into building and maintaining a test framework :-D
User18: User14 I'm not boss, but yes, I'm trying to explain why we need to push our solution to universal side
User18: User14 of course, until you need to test some specific GUI or sensors that require specific environment
User18: jml: why you put plugin code for bzr-removable into subfolder?
User18: jml: it makes hard to install it
User14: well, the last project I was involved used a specific UI on the device (buttons and LCD display), yet I was able to use pyGtk on *windows* (wink) to emulate the UI and some sensors, the rest of code was common between the PC and the device...
User14: so most of the work could be done on the PC without the need to flash or debug in the field... they were quite happy about it...
User18: I have similar emulator now for our terminals. But I'm using Tkinter and PIL. It works great
User18: rats, bzr-removable does not work on windows
User18: os.path.samefile?
User14: :-/
User7: hi bialix
User18: hi poolie
User7: i hoped my mail about wine might please you
User7: now i can experience os lock problems more often :)
User18: User7 :-)
User18: yes, it is indeed
User18: OSLMD!
User7: +1
User7: the main thing i have at the moment is that i don't have paramiko installed there, so can't do networking
User7: but i could either install paramiko or the bzr installer
User18: paramiko has not extra dependencies
User18: only pycrypto
User18: and pycrypto has installer
User18: BzrWin32Installer page or WindowsInstall provides the links
User18: it's not so hard
User18: of course it's not apt-get
User18: maybe easy_install will work
User7: right
User7: i was actually going to use it as a test run for easy_install
User18: it will be interesting to hear
User18: about easy_install
User18: maybe you'll check full round
User14: User18 http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html#os.path.samefile
User18: easy_install bzr
User18: User14 right, but was is closest equivalent for samefile on Windows? just compare abspaths?
User14: return path1 == path2
User18: ok
User20: is that what it does?
User20: User18 you can have links in Windows, right?
User18: yes, but not easy
User18: hardlinks
User18: symlinks only for directories
User20: ok
User18: and because I have no links on my disks anyway I'll follow vila's advice
User18: I don't understand how bzr-removable supposed to work
User21: You can have symlinks in Vista and up
User21: "Junction points" are available in XP and below (folders only)
User18: I'm on XP and below
User21: Most people are
 * bialix mutters: something need to be done about branch aliases like :push, :parent. Why people should convert them explicitly?
User18: grr
User18: about bzr-removable: my sequence of actions now to detect is it safe to delete branch: run bzr st, check for .shelf, run bzr info and see is it pushed, run bzr missing :parent or bzr missing :push
User7: User18 yes the aliases don't seem to work in every place
User7: and i agree about the workflow for removing things too
User18: perhaps I need write my own removable
User7: mm
User7: maybe
User7: i'd like to consider it as part of the ui 3 thing
User18: sorry, I've lost connection
User3: I wish somebody would tell me where I could download an extra 8 hours in the day.  Then maybe I could write out ui 3 thoughts before...   y'know.  3.
User18: 3?
User17: ui 3?
User21: UI 1 : big red off switch
User21: UI 2 : Windows
User21: UI 3 : Something better   ?
User21: Oh, damn, WinXP installs fast in a VM
User21: I guess the host hardware is somewhat meaty
User7: User17 http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/devnotes/bzr-2009-ui-refresh.html
User5: User21 also, 'hits disk' isn't well defined in a vm :)
User21: User5 Given the amount of RAM this box has I wouldn't be surprised if the entire partition was cached
User7: vila did you mention a bug with some failures on karmic?
User7: i seem to have a new failure in TestLocale
User21: I think the win32 build page is a bit out of date
User22: Hi vila
User14: hi garyvdm
User22: How are you?
User14: User22 fine thanks, how about you ? You seem to be pretty active in qbzr these days :)
User23: night all
User14: night Ian
User24: User14 keys and certs from ssl_certs are not installed by setup.py - shouldn't they be?
User14: User24 right you are ! There is even a bug filed about it. Feel free to fix :D
User24: User14 i'll add the fix to my branch
User14: User24 it's easier if you have a single intent by merge proposal, so if you want to fix bug #392401, it's better to fix only that in a dedicated branch
User10: Launchpad bug 392401 in bzr "Packaging Bug: test SSL certificates missing from 1.16 PPA" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392401
User14: User9 *now* the changes you made to the build config are responsible for the failures :-) At least the bzrtools tag not existing on the public branch that is...
User24: User14 ok, I push a fix https://code.launchpad.net/~denys.duchier/bzr/bug-392401
User14: User24 great ! now, just do 'bzr lp-open' in your branch and click the 'Propose for merging' button !
User24: User14 it's already done I think (but this is my first day using launchpad, so I may have screwed up)
User14: User24 perfect
User14: User24 already approved by jam, I'll add a NEWS entry and merge
User24: User14 thank you
User21: Bah, now I have to install the platform SDK
User21: Or something
User21: I'm missing MSCVRT90.dll
User14: User24 thank *you* and congrats, your first patch is currently processed for landing in bzr.dev :D
User21: Who's building the Windows installers and how do they get the 2.6 Python installer extensions building?
 * vila whispers jam is building the windows installers
User24: hmm... I have pushed new revisions to my bzr.ssl branch on lp, but the diff that is shown on the merge review page is still the old one.  is that normal?
User2: User24 yeah...unfortunately
User24: how are people supposed to review the tip of the branch?
 * awilkins woots because he managed to get `make python-installer` to finish
User2: by generating the diff themselves apparently
User24: that's a little bit on the sucky side :-(
User2: bug 338002
User10: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/338002/+text)
User14: User24 you should 'resubmit' aka inform launchpad that your merge-proposal is superseded by a new one
User24: User14 ah... ok
User14: User24 the rationale is that the diff represent the difference between the two branches at the time of submission, because people comments refers to that, so the diff itself shouldn't change...
User24: User14 when you say resubmit, you mean click on the "propose for merging" link again?
User14: User24 don't know if that will work, no, I meant click the 'Status' near the top of the page of your actual mp: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~denys.duchier/bzr/bzr.ssl/+merge/10147
User14: User24 the little pen icon to be precise
User24: User14 pfff.... that's hard to discover!
User14: User24 EWRONGCHANNEL :-)
User14: User24 try https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug instead :)
User14: User24 but yes, that one is tricky, the UI is still worked on AFAIK
User14: User24 hmm, looks like some mail didn't reach you before you resubmit...
User14: User24 I thought you've seen my mail about wrap_socket but apparently no :-/
User25: hi everybody
User25: i'm working on a gnu arch --> bazaar transition
User25: i had great trouble finding baz-import
User25: it's no longer part of bzrtools, but the websites do not reflect this
User25: maybe you could update them
User25: thx
User14: User25 it's a wiki, your experience is certainly worth reporting !
User25: http://bazaar-vcs.org/ is not a wiki afaict
User14: User25 it is
User14: User25 look at the small print at the end of the page :)
User25: saw it..
User25: i'd prefer if somebody who knew what they were doing edited it instead of me
User14: User25 damn, there was changes here, how do I logged out ? :)
User25: ?
User14: User25 but nobody knows what you did and where you looked, fixing your modifications (if needed !) will be far easier that interviewing you to find what should be chaged
User14: s/chaged/changed/
User26: hi guys. I've got a project that has a sub-folder that exists as a linked tree (I believe)
User26: I want to move this out into a seperate repo, and occasionally move the libs in manually. Can I just do `bzr split` ?
User26: or is it actually 'join' ?
User27: hey
User27: does anyone know if 1.18 is due today?
User2: User27 I can't find a metronome that states when it is due
User2: I can't even find the mail saying that it will be 1.18 not 2.0 now
User27: james_w, I'm a bit surprised because I see a milestone with a bunch of fixed bugs so..
User27: https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+milestone/1.18
User27: the only bug for 1.18 and not rc1 would be 398608
User27: I wanted to find somebody to verify https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/393677
User10: Launchpad bug 393677 in bzr "pushing a 1.9 branch stacked on a 2a branch causes problems" [High,Confirmed]
User26: how can I convert a rich-root-pack into a pack-0.92 ?
User26: I've got a project that doesn't need rich root ( no idea why it was made like that). I just want to convert it over to default (pack-0.92) so that I can I can move it into this shared repo
User14: User26 the new format (2a) that will become the default with bzr-2.0 is rich-root, so getting away from rich root now is not a good idea
User26: so I'd be better off upgrading to rich-root?
User26: basically I want to have /home/bzr/projects/myproject/ and be able to have several folders (trunk, branches, releases) that I can checkout individually
User26: not really sure which format I need to use :'(
User26: I'm using bzr 1.13.1 (ubuntu)
User26: I'd prefer to have them all as pack-0.92 at the moment, as that's default
User14: User26 Upgrading to rich-root is a safe bet, you can either use --1.9-rich-root or go straight to --2a
User14: User26 If you prefer, just wait for 2.0 to be released
User26: ok, well I'll wait - but any idea how I can get my project layout sorted for now with pack?
User26: I'm just concerned that I'm going to have problems again in the future if I choose --1.9-rich-root
User14: you can't get from rich-root to non rich-root
User14: the single problem is that rich-root and non rich-root are not compatible and that you can't go back,
User26: ok. so what is your recommendation for now?
User26: bzr upgrade --1.9-rich-root?
User14: User26 wait 2.0, --1.9-rich-root, --2a are the options in roughly safest order
User14: how big are your projects ? # revisions, # files ?
User26: only small really
User26: <100 files each
User14: no problem then, upgrade to 2a
User26: when will 2.0 be out?
User14: soon :)
User14: 1.18 is about to be released and also be the last monthly release befor 2.0
User28: does anyone know any distributed issue trackers that dont suck and work nicely with bzr?
User28: optimal would be the ability to sync with launchpad but I'm guessing this is mostly impossible
User28: or at least doesnt exist yet:-)
User20: User28 which have you tried?
 * kfogel is away: looooooooonch
User28: User20 ditz.
User20: User28 the only (real) distributed one I know is Bugs Everywhere
User28: and BE, which is basically ditz but in ruby.
User28: err
User28: well, ditz but *not* in ruby
User28: :-)
User28: they have a number of problems, mostly that it's too hard to submit bugs
User28: people should not have to do a full checkout
User28: I like my bug reporters, I want to make their lives harder
User28: there's a "don't" in that sentence somewhere
User24: User14 I resubmitted with "wrap_socket" mods and cleaned up the tests a bit (but not quite separated out because they are _litterally_ the same tests).  see if you like it better now
User14: User24 I know they are even *exactly* the same tests, that's why I said you want to parameterize them, look at various load_tests methods, you want a class where you set your 'use_ssl' attribute in load_tests() so that the test is written once but instantiated (and executed) twice
User29: Can I configure EOL filters just on the server side, or does it have to be on the client, too?
User20: User28 you could something on the web to feed things into one copy
User28: User20 one copy?
User28: web interface with commit access to an incoming-bugs branch?
User20: User28 yeah
User20: User28 ala ikiwiki or hatta
User24: User14 I used common helper methods with a use_ssl parameter (no attribute anymore)
User28: i dont know any of those
User20: User28 dvcs backed wiki(compiler)s
User28: oh
User28: User20 so "accepting" bugs could be cherrypicking commits into working branches
User14: User24 right, but you shouldn't have :-/ You identified some tests that needed to run against the two kind of servers, more will come
User20: User28 yeah
User28: does anyone who works on/with bzr a lot think that that would be disgusting?
User20: User28 I think that would be fine
User28: okay, how about displaying bugs
User28: syncing with launchpad would be mostly impossible without modifying launchpad
User20: User28 use launchpadlib?
User28: also im not entire sure that lp would be happy with the extra load that I might generate from generating bug state from repo state :-)
User20: gah, out of power, again
User14: User24 test_osutils.py contains a rather simple load_tests() you can look at in parallel with the TestDirReader class
User14: in fact the previous version of your tests was closer to the desired result that your actual one
User14: s/that you/than your/
 * vila EODing
User24: User14 thanks, I am looking, but all this really clever loading magic takes a while to puzzle out
User28: User20 the biggest problem I can see is that bug state inspection should be easy, and people dont understand bugs-over-time.
User26: I've upgraded my files into --1.9-rich-root, and one of the folders is throwing up an error when using bzr-trac: AttributeError: 'KnitPackRepository' object has no attribute 'get_revision_graph'
User29: Is there a way to enforce EOL rules on the server?
User14: User24 you want something like (untested) http://paste.ubuntu.com/253293/
User14: User24 and thenos mething like http://paste.ubuntu.com/253297/
User14: User24 and then something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/253297/
User14: interesting typo, I should really EOD now :)
User14: User24 ^ does that help ?
User14: User24 anyway, if you can't get them right, wait for spiv review, I think he'll ask for some more tweaks/tests
 * vila really gone now
User24: User14 it's going to, I am sure ;-) but I am going to have to study this carefully (I hate not understanding)
User14: User24 good, feel free to ask questions when do merge proposals then, we welcome that :)
User26: any thoughts on why I get this in trac? "AttributeError: 'KnitPackRepository' object has no attribute 'get_revision_graph'"
User26: only happens on one particular repo, that was upgraded using `bzr upgrade --1.9-rich-root`
User30: beuno, any predictions for Monday yet? :)
User31: emmajane, I've done my part, I now need to get someone assigned
User31: we won't have the design by Monday, that I know
 * emmajane nods
User31: but, "next week" sounds plausible
User31: it's been my #1 urgency for the past 3 days
User30: boo for "next week" and "plausible" but yay for "urgency" :)
User31: heh
User31: emmajane, I'm trying to get the HTML as well
User31: so we iterate over a design
User31: and then get the HTML/CSS for the approved design
User30: beuno, oh, cool!
User31: emmajane, so maybe that will make up for lost time
User30: :)
User30: beuno, I would be delighted if they used 960.gs or some other CSS framework. it'll make inner pages and applying some of the design to other parts of the site (e.g. docs and wiki) a lot easier.
User30: beuno, I'm most familiar with 960, but I've worked a little with some of the others.
User26: argh bzr-trac is barfed on my install :/
User26: only one of the branches within the shared-repo will show
User26: all others show "AttributeError: 'KnitPackRepository' object has no attribute 'get_revision_graph'"
User31: emmajane, I can't promise that, but I can try  :)
User30: beuno, thanks :)
User32: hi all.  Is there currently (1.17) a way to nest two preexisting trees?  split doesn't appear to handle this, only breaking off a versioned subdir into a tree.
User33: hi, is there an easy way to import all of the history from an svn branch to a bzr brach?
User11: whenever i try to do anything over bzr+ssh (init-repo, push), i get a 'wrong client version' message
User11: do my local and server clients have to match up? i thought that for modern versions of bzr i only had to worry about the formats
User26: say I have /project, and I also have /project/lib/myplugin, what's the best way to bring the code from an external branch into /project/lib/myplugin ?
User26: ack brb dinner
User33: is there a way with bzr to see the history for just one file?
User34: User33 bzr log file-name-1, file-name-2, ...
User33: User34 is it possible with a gui so I can see the revisions as well?
User34: User33 i haven't really played with any of the gui's, so i'm not sure.
User34: User33 seems like you can do it in loggerhead: go to Files, find the file, and then click "view changes to this file"
User34: User33 for example: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/changes?filter_file_id=setup.py-20050314065409-02f8a0a6e3f9bc70
User35: Heya. Puzzled about line endings conversion. I know I need to upgrade to --1.14 which I thought I'd done, but it still doesn't seem to work
User35: Anyone advise on how I should upgrade an entire launchpad project to use the newer format so we don't keep getting problems with mangled line ends?
User33: User34 yeah, but my repo isn't on LP :)
User33: that would've been my first choice
User34: User33 then that's all i got.  ;)
User36: yo
User36: is there a simple way to do what bzr ignore does from the api?
User37: hi folks, good evening!
User37: I have a quick question about bazaar protocols
User31: ronny, have you looked at what the command does?
User37: I currently try to fix the maven-scm-provider-bazaar because we don't use authentication for bzr+ssh for example
User37: currently the code support the following protocols: FILE, FTP, SFTP, AFTP, HTTP, HTTPS
User37: anyone who can tell me what protocols are missing and where I may read more about it?
User36: User31 meh, every time i do that i end up wasting 1-2 hours
User31: ronny, there's always a learning curve...  :)
User31: that said
User31: ronny, http://bazaar-vcs.org/Integrating_with_Bazaar
User31: don't know if there's an example there
User31: if not, and you do spend those couple of hours
User31: please add to that  :)
User36: User31 im writing a lib to abstract the different vcs's
User5: import ignores
User37: User36 in which language?
User5: igores.tree_ignores_add_patterns(tree, ptterns)
User36: User37 python of course
User36: User5 nice, thanks
User38: if I have a web interface that I'd like listed on the bazaar plugin page, should I send an email or can I just tell somebody here?
User5: User36 (looking the command :P)
User31: mobodo, just add it, it's a wiki
User38: ahhh, just got to login I guess :)
User36: User5 at some point you guys really should work on killing code-size, im still in fear by the sheer amount of code in bzr
User37: I assume the bzr protocol supports authentication in the form bzr://username:christian63@example.com... ?
User39: hey, possibly a stupid question, but what's the bzr magic for 'show me the changes in the WT relative to rev $foo'?
User5: set -r $foo
User5: bah
User5: bzr st -r $foo
User5: or diff if you want a diff
User5: User39 ^
User39: User5 that doesn't seem to DTRT
User5: perhaps I don't know what you mean then.
User39: if I do that, it tells me about an added file blah, but blah wasn't in $foo, and bzr cat -r $foo blah, confirms
User39: User5 I have a tree, with some changes.  and i want to know how my current tree compares to revision 70
User5: ok
User39: I could just bzr branch -r 70 and diff, but that seems .. inelegant
User5: and the file blah is in your tree and not in 70
User39: blah is neither in my tree, nor 70
User5: orly
User39: it got added and removed, somewhere between 70 and now
User5: let me test
User39: User5 le sigh
User39: User5 i'm so sorry, apparently I'm on epic levels of crack
User5: ?
User5: User39 what was going on?
User39: User5 the file is in my current tree, I'm just a muppet
User5: heh
 * lifeless cancels his test
User39: I was utterly convinced I'd rm -fr'ed /etc/apache2 on this box, but apparently not
User5: tricky things those fr's
User3: A fr once bit my sister...
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