play the wii and you have this special experience, but what we tried to integrate into that was a topic of discussion. And sometimes we would spend 20 minutes on that discussion. But we would talk -- going back to measurement -- what does it mean to them as youth to be a leader and have them identify what they think the traits of a leader are and for some much them it was like -- those that were more shy, well, in six months I want to be the one that runs the agenda instead of Justin. Because we have somebody that really, really likes to run the agenda and it was kind of hard to work that out, so for us when that individual actually ran the agenda and ran the meeting, that was kind of a measure for us that they had shadowed, seen how that was done, and then had been on their own time ready to take that position over and with some support and that was kind of how we measured. but I do agree the transition from being really fun and actually having them come work on a day to day basis in the center is something you have to think about and not just expect because then everybody gets frustrated. You go from group participant having a great time to, I've got to do what with that paper? Why do I have to -- you have to do it before you leave today. And if you don't set up those expectations and that transition, you're kind of asking for frustration. >> STACEY: to the back and to the left. I want to share some things I was thinking. Keeping in mind that disability really offers an opportunity to redefine what we mean by work. And the youth bring a loft creativity to CILs and I think it's really important. So I think a fellow youth member where it's not their strength to write a grant report, but they are the most carries mat particular person ever and they are totally able to call 40 people every week for a year and maybe that's something you can put people N. and the other two things I was thinking is just really keeping in mind that any time -- any time you do mixed ability, cross-disability work, youth work, anything that you really have to think about, the capacity it's going to take to support that person. People don't just show up and you sit them at a desk and they are good to go. Who is going to be on staff to support that person and being able to fully participate?
So remember that, that centers are not the only avenue in the world of work for folks. And there are other opportunities. So those are I think two sides of that coin. Probably worth thinking about and I think Darrell wanted to say something. >> DARRELL: I just recall a resource that we can make available to you. Two years ago we did a youth leadership training, Stacey was one of our presenters at that, and another person who presented was Amber (inaudible) from access living in Chicago. And I'm going to stand up so I can see you guys. and one of the things that Amber passed out to the group was a tool that they had developed at access living for how they do measure leadership development with their youth programs. And it's a well thought out tool that they have developed over a period of many years and refined. and I think it's an excellent place for you to start to know what questions to ask to develop your own tool or to take it and adapt it. And we'll make sure that it gets posted to the wiki page for this training and when we write to you all with the other resources that we promised to share, we'll let you know that it has been posted. And if at any point you have any questions about the tool, we can put you in touch with Amber. >> JEFF: So again you folks who had hand up, we'll get to you. Christy said something I wanted to chime back in on the measurement thing. We've danced around it but not goat een real specific. I feel this is the nitty gritty concrete stuff. a couple of things we track in our youth program, we didn't track how many pizzas were consumed, wii bowling scores, that's what the young adults track internally, but what we track for our grant money was number of external boards that we got