Oldest commissioned warship afloat | Guinness World Records Oldest commissioned warship afloat When 21 October 1797 The USS Constitution - also known as 'Old Ironsides' - was commissioned on 21 October 1797 and remains on the US Navy ship roster with a crew of between 50 and 80 active duty Navy sailors. Constitution's home port is Charlestown, Massachusetts and it makes occasional trips to sea. There is a wealth of information contained in the pamphlet attached. SEE ALSO: Oldest Commissioned Warship All records listed on our website are current and up-to-date. For a full list of record titles, please use our Record Application Search. (You will be need to register / login for access) Photo Essay: Onboard America’s Oldest Warship - USNI News USNI News Brought to You by the Members of the U.S.

Naval Institute Home » Budget Industry » Photo Essay: Onboard America’s Oldest Warship Photo Essay: Onboard America’s Oldest Warship July 21, 2014 9:38 AM • Updated: July 23, 2014 11:12 AM A sailor makes a quick phone call during a July 4, trip of USS Constitution in Boston Harbor. Glenn Moyer Photo CLARIFICATION: USS Constitution is the oldest warship afloat, but not the oldest in commission. The U.K. Royal Navy’s HMS Victory is still in commission but has been in dry dock since 1922. ONBOARD USS CONSTITUTION — Commissioned in 1798, USS Constitution is the world’s oldest commissioned warship afloat. Berthed in Boston, the ship was underway on July 4, in one of the last trips the ship will make before entering a maintenance availability that will keep the ship in the yard until 2018. USS Constitution passes by downtown Boston during the ship’s Independence Day underway. US Navy Photo The short trip took Constitution from its slip in Boston’s inner harbor to Castle Park.

Along the way, USNI News saw a centuries old sailing tradition with several reminders of the modern naval era. USS Constitution was part of the six frigates the U.S. built to protect merchant vessels from piracy threats in the Mediterranean. The ship was made famous in the War of 1812 following several engagements with the Royal Navy earning Constitution the nickname “Old Ironsides.” Since then the ship has remained in commission undergoing several renovations and crewed by about 50 active duty U.S. Navy sailors. Heavy Ship Markings showing the draft of USS Constitution. Glenn Moyer Photo Though Constitution is made of wood, it’s a heavy ship — 2,286 tons. The ship drafts from 21 to 23 feet, slightly the same as U.S. Navy Oliver Hazard Perry frigate. In order to maintain the ship’s hull and masts, the Navy solicits donations of live oak and maintains the Constitution Grove , a naval timber reserve, at Naval Weapons Support Center Crane, Ind. Only about 10 to 15 percent of the original wood used for the ship remains, according to the USS Constitution museum .

USS Constitution 32 “24-pounder” Long Guns Crew: 6-14 Range: 1200 yards Weight: 5,600 lbs. ~~~ Crew: 4-9 Range: 400 yards Weight: 2,200 lbs. ~~~ Ship’s Stats: Speed: 13+ knots Sail Area: 42,710 square ft. Foremast Height: 198 ft. Mainmast Height: 220 ft. Mizzenmast Height: 172 ft, 6 in. Displacement: 2,200 tons Length: 204 ft Crew Composition: 50-80 active duty U.S Navy Sailors Uniforms Constitution sailors salute Ft. Independence during a July 4, 2014 underway for the ship. Glenn Moyer Photo The crew of Constitution wears a mix of standard naval uniforms and traditional naval gear from the time of the ship’s commissioning. The commander’s so-called “Cap’n Crunch” cocked-hat headgear and the top hats of the sailor’s senior enlisted were alongside the service’s current blueberry working uniform.

Glenn Moyer Photo Crew Quarters One of two mirror image cabins for the ship’s captain or an embarked commodore. Glenn Moyer Photo The most opulent quarters onboard are two cabins to the aft of the ship reserved for the captain and a visiting commodore. The spaces mirror each other with large windows looking out to the sea which also contained the heads for the cabins. The port cabin window with the seat that conceals the original captain’s head. Glenn Moyer Photo Enlisted sailors slept in hammocks suspended from the ceiling on the ship’s berthing deck. A major upgrade in the current version of Constitution is much more modern head facilities. The crew aboard Constitution enjoy a more modern head. Glenn Moyer Photo Gun Deck The ship’s gun deck. Glenn Moyer Photo The ship commissioned with 32 24-pounder long guns, 20 32 pounder carronades and 2 24 pounder bow chasers. Now only two of the guns are active to allow the ship’s crew to render ceremonial salutes while underway. Glenn Moyer Photo On the July 4 trip, the ship rendered a 21-gun salute to Ft.

Independence on Castle Island at the mouth of Boston’s inner harbor. In another contemporary twist, instead of using the traditional long chant to keep the timing of the salute accurate, the ship’s crew used a timer on a modern smartphone. Tug Powered Tug boat that moved the ship through the harbor. Glenn Moyer Photo When it was commissioned, Constitution was among the world’s fastest warships. Under full sail, the ship could reach speeds of up to 13 knots. However, the ship rarely now travels by sail power. For the July 4 trip, Constitution moved through the harbor via tug. Back to the Yard Glenn Moyer Photo Next year the ship will enter dry-dock for a about a three year maintenance availability. This summer is the last time the ship can host visitors until its return sometime in 2018. Related Categories: Budget Industry , News & Analysis , Surface Forces , U.S. Navy About Lt. Glenn Moyer, USNR Glenn Moyer is the student and active duty marketing manager for the U.S. Naval Institute. Moyer is a 2010 graduate from the U.S. Naval Academy.

Related ← Fourth National Security Cutter Completes Builder’s Trials Document: Unrestricted Line Officer Promotions → Nicholas Tracy The claim that USS Constitution is the “oldest” commissioned warship is fraudulent, as I pointed out to the sailor taking me around forty years ago. HMS Victory, launched in 1765 is the oldest, and not only is she commissioned, she is the flag-ship for the C-in-C Portsmouth.. Ctrot And the claim that HMS Victory is commissioned, given that she has been dry docked for almost 100 years, is fraudulent as well. More so I would claim. Nicholas Tracy Time for you to define what you mean by “commissioned.” Have a good day! Secundius @ Nicholas Tracy. You might re-read your facts, HMS. VICTORY was effectually decommissioned from the Ministry of Defense and transferred to the National Museum of the Royal Navy, in 6 March 2012 CE. Which means USS. CONSTITUTION, is now the World’s Oldest Active Warship as of that date. Nicholas Tracy Thanks Secundus (whoever you are) for the up-date. 247 years in commission must be a record.

Transfer to the museum will access lottery funds, and provide for the refit that is needed. Perhaps someday the RN will take her out of the museum for a lighting raid on somewhere, as the RAF did with the Vulcan bomber that missed the runway at Port Stanley! Meanwhile USS Constitution will be beating to quarters to give British visitors a good time. Secundius @ Nicholas Tracy. Here’s a HOT one for you, The Royal Navy and The Royal Marine Corps. Are no longer referred too as either, the RN or RMC. As of 1 December 2013 CE., both former RN/RMC are NOW called simply the Naval Service. Nicholas Tracy I think it is a question of plus la difference plus la meme chose. According to the Queen’s Regulations for the Royal Navy[1] the Naval Service consists of: The Royal Navy (Royal Naval Reserve) – including Queen Alexandra’s Royal Naval Nursing Service The Royal Marines (Royal Marines Reserve) Naval Careers Service The Naval Service is also supported by Marine Services (currently provided by Serco Marine Services under a private finance initiative) which operates a fleet of auxiliaries such as research vessels and ocean-going tugs in support of the Royal Navy.

The Royal Fleet Auxiliary also provides support to the Naval Service, although it is considered part of the Ministry of Defence Civil Service. ed2291 Regardless, she is certainly the oldest commissioned vessel still afloat. The HMS Victory is a fine ship well worth keeping and maintaining, but you lose something when you no longer taste seawater. Secundius @ ed2291. Actually, NOT. HMS Victory may be the Oldest Vessel afloat, but she was Decommissioned in 6 March 2012… ed2291 I do not believe the HMS Victory is afloat and think it has not been afloat for some time. Secundius @ ed2291. She’s still afloat, Sir. They just transfer her the Royal Historical Society as a Floating Museum Ship. I think she’s still Berthed at her original Mooring Slip, if I’m not mistaken… ed2291 Thanks for the info! As Humphrey Bogart said in “Casa Blanca,” “I was misinformed.” It is great that they are preserving both ships. Secundius Your welcome, I glade I could help… Secundius ed2291.

I forgot to mention it, but if want a Piece Of That History. There’s a Government Organization called the DLA (Defense Logistics Agency) Disposition Service “Usable” Division in Battle Creek, MI. Ask for Form DD 134-1a ETID eDocs. (www . dispositionservices . dla . mil)… Sam Riddle Now why didn’t the writer tell us where she’s getting refitted at? Secundius @ Sam Riddle. I’m willing to suspect that Building and Maintaining Ship’s like the Constitution is lost and dying art. You have to remember that during the time of Constitution commissioning, Ship Builders and Shipwrights, was a specialized form of Carpentry. It’s like comparing Rocket Science with Plumbing. Ship’s Bottoms or Keels had too be clad in copper to prevent fouling (e.i. prevent Seabourne Parasites from making homes in the live wood planking). Their are very few Modern Boat and Yacht builders that skilled in this profession, just like Stone Masons, Coach Building or Colonial House Building come too mind.

For example If you want too build a house to 17th & 18th-century standards, You’d probably have to go to Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia, too get the job done. We need to keep this Old School Craftsmanship alive, for future generations. Because once it’s gone, IT’S GONE. Sam Riddle Agreed, that’s why I was curious as to where it’s being refitted… I’m a real history buff and I love naval architecture as well as the old buildings that were built before technology allowed them to rise above 20 stories and required elevators… It’s all cool stuff to me, just like the timbers for the main mast, you can’t just get that anywhere or that the live oak timber came from Crane Indiana, I’m from Southern Indiana and I never knew that! I’ve toured old ironside around 1991 in Boston and I enjoyed it immensely! How many people can say that? Secundius @ Sam Riddle. The interesting thing about the USS, CONSTITUTION, is technically classification as a Frigate. But, Actually it’s a Super Frigate. The designers, drew-up plans for a Battleship of the Line, by British standards.

But the Continental Congress didn’t have the funds to build one. So, the designers went back to the drawing-board, and modified the Ship’s Plans, as upscaled Frigate. And then somebody came up with the concept, and called it a Super Frigate. Which later came to a great shock to the British Royal Navy, when the CONSTITUTION could hold its own when paired with a British Battleship of the Line. One of my favorite books of the era, is called “The Chronicles of the Frigate Macedonian”. Petty Officer 3 I can, except my tour was during the late 1970’s. Secundius I’m willing to suspect it have too do with the Contractor doing the the Refitting. They don’t want a lot of lookerons or gawkers their to get underfoot, getting-in-the-way. This is going to be Time Labor Intensive Laborious Job, and with a lot of people milling-about, an Insurance Nightmare! I, like you, would like to see the refitting take place up-close and personal. I wonder if they have a Cable Channel set up for the Refitting Job Process.

muzzleloader I visited the ship in the summer of 2008, and she was undergoing a major yard period then, her upper works mainly. All her topside cannon, her masts, and rigging had been removed, and there was a temporary work shelter on the main deck. The tours below decks were limited because of the work there also. A pity that the ship will be unavailable to the public again for so long, but a two century old wooden ship needs a lot of upkeep. Ruckweiler Went aboard in 1976. A time warp, to be sure. Glad she’s still with us and 3 cheers for the folks who authorized her construction. James Allen I have a question of access to the royal yardarm.

how did sailors reach this point after they arrived at the top of the ratlines from the fighting top USS Constitution, world's oldest commissioned warship afloat, closes before restoration work - NEWS 1130 USS Constitution, world's oldest commissioned warship afloat, closes before restoration work Posted Apr 27, 2015 8:33 pm PST Last Updated Apr 27, 2015 at 11:30 pm PST BOSTON – The world’s oldest commissioned warship afloat is closing to visitors as it heads to dry dock in Boston for repairs. The three-masted frigate USS Constitution is nicknamed Old Ironsides. It closed on Monday. It’s slated to enter dry dock near its berth at the Charlestown Navy Yard on May 19 and partly reopen on June 9. A multi-year restoration project will involve re-coppering the hull, replacing worn rigging and old planks and making general repairs to the stern, bow and captain’s cabin. The U.S. Navy is paying for the work, which could cost up to $15 million.

The last time the Constitution was dry-docked was in 1995, in preparation for its bicentennial. The ship was launched in 1797 and is a major tourist draw for the city. It’s expected back in the water by 2017. Next Story USS Constitution, world's oldest commissioned warship afloat, closes before restoration work - 570 NEWS USS Constitution, world's oldest commissioned warship afloat, closes before restoration work by The Associated Press Posted Apr 27, 2015 11:33 pm EST FILE - In this Aug. 29, 2014, file photo, the USS Constitution is nicknamed Old Ironsides the U.S. Navy's oldest commissioned ship that is still afloat, is towed through Boston Harbor past Boston's financial district skyline with its topsails unfurled. The warship officially closed Monday, April 27, 2015, and will partly reopen June 9, before entering dry dock near its berth on May 19 for a multi-year restoration project.

(AP Photo/Stephan Savoia, File) BOSTON – The world’s oldest commissioned warship afloat is closing to visitors as it heads to dry dock in Boston for repairs. The three-masted frigate USS Constitution is nicknamed Old Ironsides. It closed on Monday. It’s slated to enter dry dock near its berth at the Charlestown Navy Yard on May 19 and partly reopen on June 9. A multi-year restoration project will involve re-coppering the hull, replacing worn rigging and old planks and making general repairs to the stern, bow and captain’s cabin. The U.S. Navy is paying for the work, which could cost up to $15 million. The last time the Constitution was dry-docked was in 1995, in preparation for its bicentennial. The ship was launched in 1797 and is a major tourist draw for the city. It’s expected back in the water by 2017. Next Story Second Oldest Commissioned Ship in US Navy? - Google Groups Second Oldest Commissioned Ship in US Navy?

Showing 1-41 of 41 messages >Can any one confirm she is the second oldest commissioned ship in >service or is this just urban legend among the crew? She is as old as you state but I'm afraid a slight technicality gets in the way: she is USNS OBSERVATION ISLAND, not USS OBSERVATION ISLAND. The "Oldest Commissioned Ship" title is reserved for actual "commissioned" ships. DN "John A. Stovall" < johnas...@earthlink.net > schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:du09gvc9vb6va51b4v8qfo6e337729931v@4ax.com...> Interesting since the Navy vessel registry page on her lists a > "commission" date of 12/15/1958. > Is there something here I'm missing? IIRC, she was commissioned as AG-154 - when she was a Polaris missile test ship. But when converted to the AGM role, she was decommissioned and put into service with civilian crew as T-AG-23.

Gunter Krebs "Gunter Krebs" < gunter...@skyrocket.de > wrote in message news:be2d5g$3l6$06$1@news.t-online.com...Actually, she was comissioned 12/58 as USS Observation Island (EAG-154) and laid up in reserve 1n 1972. She was later reacquired by the navy in 1977 for Military Selift command as USNS Observation Island T-AGM 23. The crew nicknamed her as "the OI". They built a concrete beer hall at the foot of the pier where she berthed at Port Canaveral, FL. Got plenty drunk there many times. > A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that OBIS > was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to the USS > Constitution. I know OBIS had it's keel laid in 1952 as SS Empire > State Mariner and was commissioned as USS Observation Island > (EAG-154) in 1958.

> Can any one confirm she is the second oldest commissioned ship in > service or is this just urban legend among the crew? > Depending on how you look at ships in reserve or target ships she could be up to 5th oldest. USS Constitution (Comissioned 1-10-1798) "Alystin" < a...@gte.net > wrote in message news:MPG.196ebf2568464620989692@news.verizon.net... > > A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that OBIS > > was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to the USS > > Constitution. I know OBIS had it's keel laid in 1952 as SS Empire > > State Mariner and was commissioned as USS Observation Island > > (EAG-154) in 1958. > > Can any one confirm she is the second oldest commissioned ship in > > service or is this just urban legend among the crew? > > > Depending on how you look at ships in reserve or target ships she could > be up to 5th oldest.

> Decommissioned several times since and for the last time on 26 October 1990 Decommissioned several times since and for the last time on 30 Sept. 1991 She was decommissioned and struck from the Navy list on 19 December 1978 and while being used as remote controlled target for US Naval aircraft from Key West is not a commissioned USN vessel > USS Observation Island (Comissioned 5-12-53) Keith "Alystin" < a...@gte.net > wrote in message news:MPG.196ebf2568464620989692@news.verizon.net... Perhaps 53 would be launch date U.S.S. Observation Island began her career as the SS Empire State Mariner. Her keel was laid on 15 September, 1952, at New York Shipbuilding Corporation, Camden, New Jersey. Following a short career as a Merchant Vessel she was placed in the Maritime Reserve Fleet.

ON 10 September, 1956, the vessel was transferred to the Navy for use as the sea going facility for test and evaluation of the Fleet Ballistic Missile Weapons System. The ship was commissioned as USS Observation Island (EAG-154) on December 1958. > "Alystin" < a...@gte.net > wrote in message > news:MPG.196ebf2568464620989692@news.verizon.net... > > > A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that OBIS > > > was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to the USS > > > Constitution. I know OBIS had it's keel laid in 1952 as SS Empire > > > State Mariner and was commissioned as USS Observation Island > > > (EAG-154) in 1958. > > > Can any one confirm she is the second oldest commissioned ship in > > > service or is this just urban legend among the crew?

> > > > > Depending on how you look at ships in reserve or target ships she could > > be up to 5th oldest. > > > Decommissioned several times since and for the last time on > 26 October 1990 Reinstated Jan 4/99, Placed in Reserve > > USS Wisconsin (Comissioned 16-4-44) > Decommissioned several times since and for the last time on > 30 Sept. 1991 >Interesting since the Navy vessel registry page on her lists a >"commission" date of 12/15/1958. That's the date she was originally commissioned and wore the prefix "USS", she was decommissioned in the early 70's and brought back into service as a ship of the Military Sealift Command with civilian mariners and the prefix "USNS"; she is on the naval register but NOT as a "commissioned ship". Is there something here I'm missing? So it would appear.

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:31:42 GMT, a...@gte.net (Alystin) wrote: >> A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that OBIS >> was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to the USS >> Constitution. I know OBIS had it's keel laid in 1952 as SS Empire >> State Mariner and was commissioned as USS Observation Island >> (EAG-154) in 1958. >> Can any one confirm she is the second oldest commissioned ship in >> service or is this just urban legend among the crew? >> >Depending on how you look at ships in reserve or target ships she could >be up to 5th oldest. > >USS Observation Island (Comissioned 5-12-53) Personally, I thought the question was unequivocal. Are ships in reserve or target ships actually "in commission" (e.g., there's a CO, a crew, a commissioning pennant at the main truck, etc.)? I don't think so.

Therefore, Observation Island (which was actually commissioned 15 Dec 1958) probably currently qualifies as the second oldest commissioned ship in the USN. The Constitution did not remain in commission for her entire career, either. Originally commissioned in 1798, she was placed in ordinary at the end of the quasi-war with France, then recommissioned in 1803. She went out of commission for repairs again in 1807, and was recommissioned in 1809. At the end of the War of 1812, she again went into ordinary, until 1821. She was declared unseaworthy in 1830, and in 1833 repairs started, ending in her being recommissioned in 1835. She was again rebuilt in 1871, and recommissioned in 1877. She then went out of commission in 1897, and remained so until 1 July 1931. She's remained in commission since then, of course, and her continuous commission since 1931 qualifies her as "oldest", anyway.

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:32:23 GMT, a...@gte.net (Alystin) wrote: >> > USS Constitution (Comissioned 1-10-1798) >> Decommissioned several times since and for the last time on >> 26 October 1990 >Reinstated Jan 4/99, Placed in Reserve > >> Decommissioned several times since and for the last time on >> 30 Sept. 1991 >Reinstated Feb 12/98, Placed in Reserve Neither of them are in commission, which was what the original question was asking. "Peter H.

Granzeau" < pgr...@cox.net > wrote in message news:LPENa.34305$ZE.31972@lakeread05 > On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:31:42 GMT, a...@gte.net (Alystin) wrote: > > > > A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that > > > OBIS was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to > > > the USS Constitution. I know OBIS had it's keel laid in 1952 as > > > SS Empire State Mariner and was commissioned as USS Observation > > > Island (EAG-154) in 1958. > > > Can any one confirm she is the second oldest commissioned ship in > > > service or is this just urban legend among the crew? > > > > > Depending on how you look at ships in reserve or target ships she > > could be up to 5th oldest. > > > > USS Observation Island (Comissioned 5-12-53) > > Personally, I thought the question was unequivocal.

Are ships in > reserve or target ships actually "in commission" (e.g., there's a CO, > a crew, a commissioning pennant at the main truck, etc.)? I don't > think so. > Therefore, Observation Island (which was actually commissioned 15 Dec > 1958) probably currently qualifies as the second oldest commissioned > ship in the USN. By that standard, USNS OBSERVATION ISLAND does not qualify either. As a Military Sealift Command ship, she has a civilian master and a merchant mariner/civil service, not a Commanding Officer and navy crew. Any military personnel on board belong to a "tenant" unit of some sort, not to the ship itself. Status: Military Sealift Command (MSC), Special Mission Support Date status changed: 07/01/1977 Following the link to her status ( ) reveals the following: Ships of this type are both US government-owned and chartered vessels and are operated by civil service mariners or mariners employed by companies under contract to MSC.

" Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed) So. Is Constellation actually the second oldest commissioned ship in the Navy? "Peter H. Granzeau" < pgr...@cox.net > wrote in message news:gQZNa.34772$ZE.17174@lakeread05 > So. Is Constellation actually the second oldest commissioned ship in > the Navy? No. She's no longer in commission and was formally "disposed of" in 1955.* It appears that KITTY HAWK holds the distinction of being the second oldest commissioned ship, as well as being the oldest commissioned ship in active service. * Just to add fodder to the CONSTEALLATION debate, I see that the NVR lists her commissioning date as 28 July 1855 and describes her as "the last all-sail ship ...

built for the US Navy." Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed) >A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that OBIS >was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to the USS OBSERVATION ISLAND is not a commissioned ship, and therefore cannot be the oldest such ship. Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:31:42 GMT, a...@gte.net (Alystin) wrote: >Depending on how you look at ships in reserve or target ships she could >be up to 5th oldest. How can "ships in reserve" be COMMISSIONED SHIPS?

-- Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:32:23 GMT, a...@gte.net (Alystin) wrote: >Reinstated Jan 4/99, Placed in Reserve >Reinstated Feb 12/98, Placed in Reserve Note the word "RESERVE". Neither of the battleships was recommissioned. IOWA is in the Suisun Bay reserve fleet, and WISCONSIN is a museum. They are not commissioned ships. This thread is about COMMISSIONED SHIPS. -- Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:31:21 -0400, Peter H.

Granzeau < pgr...@cox.net > wrote: >Therefore, Observation Island (which was actually commissioned 15 Dec >1958) probably currently qualifies as the second oldest commissioned >ship in the USN. But she is NOT a commissioned ship! -- Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - >Is there something here I'm missing? The fact that NVR lists her as "Military Sealift Command, Special Misison Support", not "In Commission". Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:25:50 -0400, Peter H. Granzeau < pgr...@cox.net > wrote: >So. Is Constellation actually the second oldest commissioned ship in >the Navy? Which CONSTELLATION do you mean?

The sail warship in Baltimore hasn't been owned by the Navy since 1955. The carrier of the same name is newer than her sister KITTY HAWK, which *is* the second-oldest commissioned ship in the Navy. -- Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - >>A friend serving on USS Observation Island recently told me that OBIS >>was the second oldest Commissioned ship in the navy next to the USS > > OBSERVATION ISLAND is not a commissioned ship, and therefore cannot be the > oldest such ship. just a question, hwo universal are the concepts of a national ship being "commissioned" Are you limitign it to the USN meaning of the word?

Vince On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:29:18 GMT, Vince Brannigan < vze2...@verizon.net > wrote: >just a question, hwo universal are the concepts of a national ship being > "commissioned" Are you limitign it to the USN meaning of the word? Since we're talking about US ships, yes, I am limiting things to the US definition of "commissioned". Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself" "Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - "Vince Brannigan" < vze2...@verizon.net > wrote in message news:3F08BEE2.1050404@verizon.net... > > OBSERVATION ISLAND is not a commissioned ship, and therefore cannot be the > just a question, hwo universal are the concepts of a national ship being > "commissioned" Are you limitign it to the USN meaning of the word?

Bit vague on that, but I think it is not the ship that is commissioned , but her captain. The "commissioning pendant" is called "the captain's pendant". So to say the ship is "in commission", means her captain has a commission to command her? Memory rusty on some following points so corrections expected :) In the CF, a ship is a ''unit". To exist, a unit must be "organized" by Ministerial order, which is a signed letter naming its support base etc. The new unit gets a brand new "unit identification code", which suddenly can be used to order supplies etc like getting your new credit card activated. An "establishment " for that unit will be authorized (a list of "positions" by rank and specialty), and the annual pay cost of that will be calculated. Then , at some point, the establishment will be "activated" ; that's when people can be posted to those positions from wherever they are now, and voila! there is a commanding officer! (called a captain in a ship) in that every unit has a commanding officer.

I think this is the moment she is actually "commissioned." There may be a ceremonial "commissioning" of the ship then or later, doesn't matter, not linked to anything much, when the captain (in the old days, and still in the USN) will "read himself in" to the assembled multitude. So there are degrees of being "in the order of battle"/"on the Navy List" In that you can have a unit (ship) that is "organized" but not established yet, (you can also be established but not manned yet) and be activated and in business, but not have held a commissioning ceremony yet. (in the States one or more of these steps is called being "stood up"). Mostly it is obscure army regiments which still exist (are organized) but are not established. When a ship is "paid off" (decommissioned in USN) this means her establishment is deactivated and nobody can be posted to any of those positions anymore, so they are all posted elsewhere and paid from another budget. The ship will still be "organized as a unit" though. She will not wear a "commissioning pendant" because she has no captain.

This might be like "ordinary" was or it might be a prelude for being removed from the organization altogether and sold/scrapped/sunk as a tourist diving attraction, or maybe for a long "unmanned" refit/reconstruction. Regards, > is obscure army regiments which still exist (are organized) but are not > established. Obscure!? I'll give you obscure, Mr. Lake! :^) E.g. The Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and the Canadian Guards (reduced to nil strength and placed on the Supplementary Order of Battle with the standard of the PLDG and colours of 1 Cdn Gds are laid up in Christ Church Cathedral, Ottawa, the colours of 2 Cdn Gds in the Basilique Notre Dame, Ottawa) both were *expensive* regiments to dress and so caught the attention of bean counters.

-- SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) > On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:29:18 GMT, Vince Brannigan < vze2...@verizon.net > > wrote: >>just a question, hwo universal are the concepts of a national ship being >> "commissioned" Are you limitign it to the USN meaning of the word? > > Since we're talking about US ships, yes, I am limiting things to the US > definition of "commissioned". Ok, but then it is always worth recalling that the USS-USNS distinction is both fairly recent and in some sense artificial. Vince "BF Lake" < nos...@nospam.com > wrote in message news:DS3Oa.43273$ZS3.4360741@news2.telusplanet.net...

> "Vince Brannigan" < vze2...@verizon.net > wrote in message > news:3F08BEE2.1050404@verizon.net... > > > OBSERVATION ISLAND is not a commissioned ship, and therefore cannot be > the > > just a question, hwo universal are the concepts of a national ship being > > "commissioned" Are you limitign it to the USN meaning of the word? > > Bit vague on that, but I think it is not the ship that is commissioned , but > her captain. The "commissioning pendant" is called "the captain's pendant". > So to say the ship is "in commission", means her captain has a commission to > command her? Memory rusty on some following points so corrections expected US Navy ships having the prefix USS are commissioned as are most officers excepting some warrent officers. Commanding officers don't have a pennant, they do however have an absentee pennant which is flown when the CO is not aboard. I believe it was the "prep" pennant but, it's been a long time so I could be wrong there.

In any event it is a white pennant with a black stripe centered lengthwise. "Vince Brannigan" < vze2...@verizon.net > wrote in message news:3F08E4F9.50306@verizon.net... > > On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:29:18 GMT, Vince Brannigan < vze2...@verizon.net > > > wrote: > >>just a question, hwo universal are the concepts of a national ship being > >> "commissioned" Are you limitign it to the USN meaning of the word? > > > > Since we're talking about US ships, yes, I am limiting things to the US > > definition of "commissioned". > Ok, but then it is always worth recalling that the USS-USNS distinction > is both fairly recent and in some sense artificial. > ISTR, shortly after WWII when Military Sea Transportation Service was organized under the navy and absorbed the old Army Transportation Service and most of the Navy's troop transports. "Andrew Chaplin" < abch...@yourfinger.rogers.com > wrote in message > E.g.

The Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and the Canadian Guards > (reduced to nil strength and placed on the Supplementary Order of > Battle I am not sure that "order of battle" is a correct term. ISTR we have a "Table of Organization" and when the Minister authorizes a unit to be organized (into the Forces) the unit gets placed in the organization table diagram. I vaguely remember the wording of the Ministerial letter "organization order" for a new unit went something like , "HMCS REGINA is approved to be organized as a unit in the Second Canadian Destroyer Squadron, with supporting base CFB Esquimalt..." That';s not quite right; there was also a brief mission statement and an effective date, and it had some vestiges of quaint wording and HMCS was spelled out etc...probably left over from the sheepskin scroll days. The new unit's place in the table is given by noting which squadron she will be in. Of course a squadron is also a "unit". If a new squadron were to be organized, the organization order would have to say which fleet it was to be in I suppose.

The USN has similar procedures such as when FDR created the Atlantic Fleet from the previous Atlantic Squadron and shuffled ships from coast to coast for the pre- USA's WW2 "two ocean navy" (There was also a "two ocean navy" plan pre-USA's WW1) The army part of the organization table would have all those mysterious and arcane relationships to do with regiments, battalions, and corps etc. The units without establishments can be likened to shell companies on the stock exchange. All it needs is some magic tricks with a pen and you can soon field a unit with actual people doing whatever, the key to it all being money. The whole thing is designed to keep track of the money. There is a "manpower ceiling" for the Forces, which is related to the budget for the total annual pay for all the ranks and specialties of the establishments, so if you want to create a new unit and you already have all existing establishments for all your units filled (actual people posted in every billet) you must "block" positions in other units as "off-sets" for your new positions. Then you can post people to your new unit, and nobody can be posted to the "blocked" positions in the other units.

Creative accounting might allow you to bring in a Reserve person to fill in for a "missing" person in a unit with a "blocked" position, but I can't remember how that all goes--it has to do with money anyway. Creative accounting also lets you block a sergeant position to man a major position, but eventually, money puts the brakes on things. ISTR intelligence briefings that refer to the "threat's" "order of battle" but I am unclear on the exact meaning of that term wrt organization tables. Regards, > "Andrew Chaplin" < abch...@yourfinger.rogers.com > wrote in message > > > E.g. The Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and the Canadian Guards > > (reduced to nil strength and placed on the Supplementary Order of > > Battle > > I am not sure that "order of battle" is a correct term. ISTR we have a > "Table of Organization" and when the Minister authorizes a unit to be > organized (into the Forces) the unit gets placed in the organization table > diagram.

I vaguely remember the wording of the Ministerial letter > "organization order" for a new unit went something like , "HMCS REGINA is > approved to be organized as a unit in the Second Canadian Destroyer > Squadron, with supporting base CFB Esquimalt..." That';s not quite right; > there was also a brief mission statement and an effective date, and it had > some vestiges of quaint wording and HMCS was spelled out etc...probably left > over from the sheepskin scroll days. The new unit's place in the table is > given by noting which squadron she will be in. Of course a squadron is also > a "unit". If a new squadron were to be organized, the organization order > would have to say which fleet it was to be in I suppose.

This is because the regiments are vestiges of the Canadian Army and exist in parallel to the organizational structure and terminology used by the Canadian Forces; the CF takes little account of them (except in the case of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, which was organized as such and later disbanded by ministerial fiat) it is the battalions of the regiments that are assigned ORG ID nos (sorry, UIC is soo passé) and controlled by MOO with particular reference to embodiment in the regular or reserve force and geographic location (money and votes -- things that really matter). The Supplementary Order of Battle is a parking orbit for regimental identities that have no units to wear them and, like the regiments, the SOB exists in a parallel universe. Naval squadrons are "formations" rather than units, and it is the headquarters of the squadron that has an ORG ID; units, including the HQ are "allocated" in the MOO to the formation. It is the CFOO issued by the CDS that specifies the support structure.

(These may have changed; Gino should be able to set us straight.) > The USN has similar procedures such as when FDR created the Atlantic Fleet > from the previous Atlantic Squadron and shuffled ships from coast to coast > for the pre- USA's WW2 "two ocean navy" (There was also a "two ocean navy" > plan pre-USA's WW1) > The army part of the organization table would have all those mysterious and > arcane relationships to do with regiments, battalions, and corps etc. > > The units without establishments can be likened to shell companies on the > stock exchange. All it needs is some magic tricks with a pen and you can > soon field a unit with actual people doing whatever, the key to it all being > money. The whole thing is designed to keep track of the money.

There is a > "manpower ceiling" for the Forces, which is related to the budget for the > total annual pay for all the ranks and specialties of the establishments, so > if you want to create a new unit and you already have all existing > establishments for all your units filled (actual people posted in every > billet) you must "block" positions in other units as "off-sets" for your new > positions. Then you can post people to your new unit, and nobody can be > posted to the "blocked" positions in the other units. Creative accounting > might allow you to bring in a Reserve person to fill in for a "missing" > person in a unit with a "blocked" position, but I can't remember how that > all goes--it has to do with money anyway. Creative accounting also lets you > block a sergeant position to man a major position, but eventually, money > puts the brakes on things. This was the aggravating shell game for which I was a shill in 1999-2000. Arrgh! Is it any wonder I now work at the House on the Hill?

> ISTR intelligence briefings that refer to the "threat's" "order of battle" > but I am unclear on the exact meaning of that term wrt organization tables. Regiments still have an Order of Battle, the best example of which is the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery's four regular units (each a "Regiment" but battalions in fact) a regular school and 18 reserve units (well, one to two batteries each, and each with a support and recruiting cadres) all quite plastic, really. I used "Order of Battle" when drafting RCA Standing Orders. -- SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) "BF Lake" < nos...@nospam.com > wrote in message news:S2qOa.53902$T85.6656595@news1.telusplanet.net...Interesting, never heard the term pendant used with referance to flags. Have occasionally heard it used by commonwealth sailors for a loose end as you say.

Seems I was once told the Canadians occasionally differentiated between an Irish pendant (frayed end of flag, bunting, cloth) and Dutchmans pendant (improperly secured loose end of ropr/line etc.). Not sure about national flag/ensign terminology in US practice since there is no physical difference. Never questioned it and was never told. Always referred to it as the ensign afloat and assumed it was a naval term although I was aware of differences in other nations. Service craft in US practice fly an ensign and as I recall they're uncommissioned vessels as well. All of this is tradition/custom and may have regional differences. > Interesting. That site seems to use both pendant an pennant > depending on the page. Being a snipe, I never had much to do > with signaling other than as a passing interest or > Quarterdeck OOD. Have to ask one of my skivvie waver friends > about the flag/ensign terminology next time I run into one. > Never used the term deadman afloat. ISTM a "deadman" was a > pair of crossed sticks burried in loose sand to secure a > line such as on a tent.

Raised in a culture where many spoke Spanish, I was schooled by expereience to avoid the "pendant" usage, since the classic - and frequent - Spanish insult to masculinity, "Pendejo", describes that which hangs uselessly, non functioning, pendant as it were. USS Constitition - Frigate Constitution - War of 1812 2 x 24-pdrs (bow chasers) 20 x 32-pdr carronades USS Constitution - Construction: Shorn of the protection of the Royal Navy, the merchant marine of the young United States began to suffer attacks from North African Barbary pirates in the mid-1780s. In response, President George Washington signed the Naval Act of 1794. This authorized the building of six frigates with the restriction that construction would halt if a peace agreement was reached. Designed by Joshua Humphreys, the construction of the vessels was assigned to various ports on the East Coast. The frigate assigned to Boston was dubbed USS Constitution and was laid down at Edmund Hartt's yard on November 1, 1794.

Aware that the US Navy would be unable to match the fleets of Britain and France, Humphreys designed his frigates to be able to overpower similar foreign ships but still be fast enough to escape larger ships of the line . Possessing a long keel and narrow beam, Constitution's framing was made of live oak and included diagonal riders which increased the hull's strength and aided in preventing hogging. Heavily planked, Constitution's hull was stronger than similar vessels of its class. Copper bolts and other hardware for the vessel were made by Paul Revere. USS Constitution - The Quasi-War: Though a peace settlement was reached with Algiers in 1796, Washington permitted the three ships nearest completion to be finished. As one of the three, Constitution was launched, with some difficulty, on October 21, 1797. Completed the following year, the frigate readied for service under the command of Captain Samuel Nicholson. Though rated at forty-four guns, Constitution typically mounted around fifty. Putting to sea on July 22, 1798, Constitution began patrols to protect American commerce during the Quasi-War with France.

Operating on the East Coast and in the Caribbean, Constitution conducted escort duty and patrolled for French privateers and warships. The highlight of its Quasi-War service came on May 11, 1799 when Constitution's sailors and marines, led by Lieutenant Isaac Hull , seized the French privateer Sandwich near Puerto Plata, Santo Domingo. Continuing its patrols after the conflict ended in 1800, Constitution returned to Boston two years later and was placed in ordinary. This proved brief as the frigate was re-commissioned for service in the First Barbary War in May 1803. USS Constitution - First Barbary War: Commanded by Captain Edward Preble, Constitution arrived at Gibraltar on September 12 and was joined by additional American ships. Crossing to Tangier, Preble exacted a peace treaty before departing on October 14. Overseeing American efforts against the Barbary states, Preble began a blockade of Tripoli and worked to free the crew of USS Philadelphia (36 guns) which had run aground in the harbor on October 31.

Unwilling to allow the Tripolitans to keep Philadelphia, Preble dispatched Lieutenant Stephen Decatur on a daring mission which destroyed the frigate on February 16, 1804. Through the summer, Preble mounted attacks against Tripoli with small gunboats and used his frigates to provide fire support. In September, Preble was replaced in overall command by Commodore Samuel Barron. Two months later, he turned command of Constitution over to Captain John Rodgers. Following the American victory at the Battle of Derna in May 1805, a peace treaty with Tripoli was signed aboard Constitution on June 3. The American squadron then moved to Tunis where a similar agreement was obtained. With peace in the region, Constitution remained in the Mediterranean until returning in late 1807. USS Constitution - War of 1812: During the winter of 1808, Rodgers supervised a major overhaul of the ship until passing command to Hull, now a captain, in June 1810. After a cruise to Europe in 1811-1812, Constitution was in the Chesapeake Bay when news arrived that the War of 1812 had begun.

Departing the bay, Hull sailed north with the goal of joining a squadron that Rodgers was assembling. While off the coast of New Jersey, Constitution was spotted by a group of British warships. Pursued for over two days in light winds, Hull used a variety of tactics, including kedge anchors, to escape. Arriving at Boston, Constitution quickly resupplied before sailing on August 2. Moving northeast, Hull captured three British merchantmen and learned that a British frigate was sailing to the south. Moving to intercept, Constitution encountered HMS Guerriere (38) on August 19. In a sharp fight, Constitution dismasted its opponent and forced it to surrender. During the battle, several of Guerriere's cannon balls were seen to bounce off Constitution's thick sides leading it to earn the nickname "Old Ironsides." Returning to port, Hull and his crew were hailed as heroes. On September 8, Captain William Bainbridge took command and Constitution returned to sea. Sailing south with the sloop of war USS Hornet, Bainbridge blockaded the corvette HMS Bonne Citoyenne (20) at Salvador, Brazil. Leaving Hornet to watch the port, he maneuvered offshore seeking prizes.

On December 29, Constitution spotted the frigate HMS Java (38). Engaging, Bainbridge captured the British ship after causing its foremast to collapse. Needing repairs, Bainbridge returned to Boston, arriving in February 1813. Requiring an overhaul, Constitution entered the yard and work began under the guidance of Captain Charles Stewart. Sailing for the Caribbean on December 31, Stewart captured five British merchant ships and HMS Pictou (14) before being forced back to port due to issues with the main mast. Pursued north, he ran into Marblehead harbor before slipping down the coast to Boston. Blockaded at Boston until December 1814, Constitution next steered for Bermuda and then Europe. On February 20, 1815, Stewart engaged and captured the sloops of war HMS Cyane (22) and HMS Levant (20). Arriving in Brazil in April, Stewart learned of the war's end and returned to New York. USS Constitution - Later Career With the end of the war, Constitution was laid up at Boston. Re-commissioned in 1820, it served in the Mediterranean Squadron until 1828.

Two years later, an erroneous rumor that the US Navy intended to scrap the ship led to public outrage and caused Oliver Wendell Holmes to pen the poem Old Ironsides. Repeatedly overhauled, Constitution saw service in the Mediterranean and Pacific during the 1830s before embarking on an around the world cruise in 1844-1846. Following a return to the Mediterranean in 1847, Constitution served as flagship of the US African Squadron from 1852 to 1855. Arriving home, the frigate became a training ship at the US Naval Academy from 1860 to 1871 when it was replaced by USS Constellation (22). In 1878-1879, Constitution carried exhibits to Europe for display at the Paris Exposition. Returning, it ultimately was made a receiving ship at Portsmouth, NH. In 1900, the first efforts were made to restore the ship and seven years later it opened for tours. Heavily restored in the early 1920s, Constitution embarked on a national tour in 1931-1934.

Further restored several times during the 20th century, Constitution is currently docked at Charlestown, MA as a museum ship. USS Constitution is the oldest commissioned warship in the US Navy.

Question: What is the oldest commissioned naval vessel afloat?
Answer: USS Constitution