Top Ten Sailing Films - Classic Boat Classic Boat Swallows and Amazons, 2016, by Harbour Pictures, and available now on DVD Choosing our ten favourite sailing movies proved a real challenge. Films, like novels, appeal to each person’s senses and taste in a different way. We wanted to achieve a list that consisted of great films, which also had great sailing footage. These then, in no particular order, are our all-out top sailing movies. We’re sure we’ve missed some of your favourites – hell, we’ve missed a lot of ours here too, so tell us what you’d like to have seen on this list, and why. All these films are available on DVD. In no particular order…. (Taken from CB248, February 2009) The Riddle of the Sands Riddle of the Sands Erskine Childers’ classic novel hardly needs recommendation to CB readers. This film version was made at the height of the 1970s vogue for elegant, accurate, authentically British adaptations of period literary classics, though it failed to capture the family market in the same way as The Railway Children (with which it shares Jenny Agutter as female lead).

Nevertheless, it does full justice to Childers’ 1903 boys’ adventure for grown-ups. All the essential elements are there: the correlation between the elusive Frisian waters (beautifully filmed on location) and Davies’s vague, intuitive suspicions is established, the sailing and rowing (to Memmert and back in the fog) are expertly realised. The boats are thoroughly authentic – especially Clara’s little lee-boarded sailing dinghy. And not only does the lute-sterned Dulcibella closely resemble Childers’ own Vixen but Simon MacCorkindale’s Davies, with his spectacles, moustache and pipe, is clearly drawn from Childers himself. Also admirable are Michael York’s transmission from the initially effete, disdainful Carruthers to the action hero he becomes, and, on a supporting-role scale, Jürgen Andersen as the bluff and oddly semi-sympathetic German naval officer von Bruning. Childers’ elaborate plotting is sensibly compressed and rearranged for cinematic concision, with much confusing to-ing and fro-ing eliminated.

More arguable is the decision to introduce the love-interest between Davies and Clara almost before anything else, and the rejigging of the finale – this may horrify purists as much as the loss of the Dulcibella, which is entailed, horrifies Davies, but it is presented as an appropriate price for the survival and love of Clara. For the many lovers of Childers’ masterpiece, though, this is a respectful, atmospheric adaptation that despite minor quibbles can only add another dimension to their pleasure. 1978, Dir Tony Maylam, Rank Organisation, Cert U, 98 mins Peter Willis Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World Master and Commander It’s 1805, before the death of Napoleon, and the frigate HMS Surprise, off the Brazilian coast, has received orders to sink or take as a prize French privateer Acheron. The hunter and hunted switch roles in a cat and mouse chase off the coast of South America before a final battle brings the story to a bloody end.

In theory, this adaptation of a slice of Patrick O’Brian’s Nelson-era sea epic series could have been as embarrassingly inauthentic as Braveheart – big-name Australian heart-throbs (Mel Gibson in Braveheart, Russell Crowe in Master and Commander) playing patriotic roles in period costume – but that is where the similarities end. Master and Commander, though a product of Hollywood in terms of sheer grandeur and ambition of scale, has a well-documented attention to historical detail: the making of the film is a great story in itself, told on the bonus DVD. Brilliant performances by Crowe as the tough, unruffled captain Jack Aubrey, and Paul Bettany as Stephen Maturin, the ship’s doctor and amateur naturalist with overtones of Darwin, are underpinned by a superb and stunningly realistic soundtrack – the sound editing won an Oscar for Richard King. The original score weaves shanties and folk songs around the ornately mellifluous Bach, Mozart and Boccherini duets that Aubrey and Maturin play on violin and cello in the captain’s stateroom.

The period wit also shines: when Aubrey baits Maturin at the dinner table, Maturin quips back that “he who puns would pick a pocket”. Despite the lightness of touch, this is a serious film. The battles are bloody but never gratuitous; the patriotism is infectious, never jingoistic, and the cinematography is exemplary. There’s plenty of detail for students of ships too: in one dinner-table scene, Aubrey describes a builder’s-model of the Acheron as “bluff above the water but sharp below – that’s the future”. World War Two veterans say that Spielberg’s Saving Private Ryan showed it how it was. One suspects that if veterans of the Napoleonic wars were alive today they might give the same endorsement to Master and Commander. Just don’t make the mistake of expecting the film to mirror the book with absolute faith. 2003, Dir Peter Weir, Universal Studios and Miramax, PG-13, 140 mins Steffan Meyric Hughes Down to the Sea in Ships Down to the sea in Ships The character development in this classic New Bedford whaling tale makes you realise how much of modern cinema is rubbish.

Its three central actors visibly grow through their relationship in a story that is centred around a whaling voyage in the late 1800s. We have a grandpa captain (Lionel Barrymore), steeped in the old ways and as salty as a cow’s lick, taking his wayward grandson (Dean Stockwell) whaling. The latter, avoiding his books, is given to the new mate (Richard Widmark) who, as a graduate of marine biology, has the hapless task of schooling the boy. Without a woman in sight (almost) this is the quintessential tale of men coming into stages of manhood at their various times of life: the boy grows up, the mate assumes command (with the degree of fatherhood that this entails) and the old man lets go but not before he manages to save the ship from iceberg-wreck doom. All three central characters wrestle with their own psyches as much as with the (very real footage of) whaling in the days when it was done by hand, harpoon and steer. With a superb supporting cast, and lots of what and what not to do in dire situations at sea this is a classic sea film with Widmark and Barrymore on top form.

1949, Dir Henry Hathaway, B/W, 20th Century Fox, PG, 120mins Dan Houston Knife in the Water Knife in the Water Roman Polanski’s first feature-length film is the classic rivalry of older successful guy (Leon Niemczyk), young wife (Jolanta Umecka) and a seemingly dispossessed youth (Zygmunt Malanowicz) thrown together on a 24-hour cruise in a 30-footer in 1960s Poland. Shot well before Polanski’s move to the USA and his disgrace as a paedophile, this shows his emerging directorial brilliance; you don’t even notice that the film is in black and white. The storyline holds us in a relentless grip as we see the young man’s punky attitude slowly affect the established couple in separate ways. And yes you guessed it, the knife of the title, does go in the water and the act begets a reprisal that would strike a chord with any sailor – but not as you might think. A dreadful tension emerges, almost surreptitiously.

What is superb about the film are the lingering shots of how we behave on small cabin boats – the film barely needs its subtitles. 1962, Dir Roman Polanski, B/W, Anchor Bay, PG, 90 mins Dan Houston The Boat Produced three years before Keaton’s famous The Navigator, The Boat is a delightful short film about what not to do at sea. Buster builds his own boat in his garage and destroys his house as he tows it to the dock. The boat’s name, Damfino, is a triumphant lob over the censors’ radar in those, er, pre-radar days. It is variously a real boat, stage construction and model, about which we suspend disbelief as Buster gloriously plays the nascent weekender afloat. With stunts from him being knocked overboard by his patent mast-lowering system, to studio footage of the boat being rolled, and finally the dark scenes of a captain going down with his ship (until he surfaces under his hat), this is both an hilarious and at times salutary film with moments that can still make you laugh out loud on the umpteenth viewing. The trusting shipmate wife is Sybil Seeley but his two sons are uncredited.

Apparently, James Mason, another great actor of sea films, found this film when he bought Buster’s house in the 1950s – saving the old print for posterity; current digital versions are quite clean. 1921, Dir Buster Keaton, Edward Cline, B/W silent, 27 mins Dan Houston Moby Dick Moby Dick The bleached-out photography of this film only adds to the grim telling of the Herman Melville tale of hardship and madness aboard a New Bedford whaler in the 1840s. With a mesmeric opening cameo from Orson Wells as the preacher speaking of Jonah from his pulpit made from the bows of a boat, the film continues the biblical references throughout to the ill-fated and foreboding ending. (Wells used his pay to fund his own stage production of Moby Dick starring Rod Steiger as Ahab.) Gregory Peck’s captain Ahab scours the seas for a huge white whale that had taken his leg in an earlier bout, infecting the crew with his obsessive revenge-fuelled madness.

Details such as whale teeth cleats, becalming, St Elmo’s fire and real whaling footage give this film an authenticity typical of a Huston epic – scriptwriters include Ray Bradbury. Peck apparently considered himself too young for the part, suggesting Huston himself should take the starring role; almost denying himself the performance of a lifetime. 1956, Dir John Huston, Moulin Productions, PG, 110 mins. Guy Venables The African Queen African Queen This legendary Technicolour Boy’s Own adventure set in 1914 German East Africa is a love story cleverly wrapped in an intrepid river journey. Bogart plays a filthy river captain(for which he won an Oscar) of the eponymous, equally grubby 30ft river steamer (the one used was built in Lytham St Annes) taking the starched missionary Katharine Hepburn down the Yulanga/Bora river to destroy the 100-tonne German steamer Luisa (based on former WW1 vessel MV Liemba that was sunk on lake Tanganyika in 1916 but refloated by the British and serves as a passenger ferry to this day).

River pilotage, prop damage and shaft twist are only some of the problems that rear during this epic journey. Apart from the comedy embroiled in this film – “No one in their right mind would tackle them rapids”; “I now pronounce you man and wife, proceed with the execution”, to name a couple of lines, it is the expertly timed melting of the icy Hepburn that rightly classes this as one of the finest and most unexpected romance films ever made. Though there’s no sailing and most of the on-water footage was shot in London, the film contains a fine portrayal of an idiosyncratic steam power plant. 1952, Dir John Huston, Horizon/Romulus Cert U, 105 mins Guy Venables Captains Courageous Captains Courageous It’s not just the star-studded cast that brings this movie to life; much of the footage takes place aboard real working Grand Banks schooners of the American northeast fishery.

Based on Rudyard Kipling’s excellent novel of the same name, it’s a story of rich brat Harvey Cheyne (Freddie Bartholomew) who, in the only unlikely moment of the film, falls over the side of a steamer bound for Europe and is picked up by a Portuguese doryman Manuel (Spencer Tracy). Forced to adapt to the tough world of catching cod and halibut in a longlining schooner that will be at sea for months, Freddie finds himself a fish out of water as his moneyed background carries no weight with captain Disko Troop (Lionel Barrymore). But he also has two father figures, one loving, one hard, in the brilliantly portrayed shapes of Manuel and Disko and the film becomes a coming-of-age classic as he learns self-reliance and discipline. But the brilliant reality of this adventure is in the sailing detail, from actors expertly gutting cod to their wet woollen gloves hanging to dry in the fo’c’s’le. The schooners sailing full and by are a treat to behold – more so for knowing it’s for real.

1937, Dir Victor Fleming, B/W, MGM, Cert U, 112mins Dan Houston 1492: Conquest of Paradise 1492 For me, going aboard the replicas of the Nina, Pinto and Santa Maria in Seville in 1992 was an experience to be remembered. Faithfully reinterpreted and built for this film, the boats smelt of tar, and, yes, life aboard. The film itself was a $47m extravaganza starring Gérard Depardieu as Columbus in one of his most believable roles: seemingly hapless at court and yet trusty in his trade at sea. Columbus’ achievement was to persuade the new King and Queen of Spain that China was thousands of miles closer than it was (to get funding), then to discover the new world on a downwind (trade-route) leg and also to discover (later) a northern east-going downwind trade route back. And while the film barely touches those three gigantic achievements, preferring to concentrate on the political details of his dealings with natives and aristocrats, it is nevertheless a brilliant portrayal of early navigation.

Well aided by a Vangelis soundtrack, this is a film of western philosophy reaching beyond known confines as the renaissance both funded and forced the rebirth of our consciousness of the known world. Columbus was the Armstrong of his day and far more economically important – though the film also shows the devastation to native peoples those early aquanauts brought to the new world. If you like passage-making to new places this is it! 1992, Dir Ridley Scott, Paramount etc, Cert 15, 154 min Dan Houston The Old Man and the Sea The Old Man and the Sea Hemingway’s last great novel of 1952 is required reading for anyone who goes aboard a boat more than seven times. The story follows a fisherman on such a run of bad luck he typifies the wooden-leg rewards of the trade more than the fabled gold watch, until he is spurred offshore in search of a great catch. We’ve chosen Anthony Quinn’s portrayal of Santiago in 1990 but the story was first told in film in 1958 and many readers will prefer the scratchy, low-tech Spencer Tracy, version.

There is also a newer (1999), rather wonderful 20-minute animated version by director Alexander Petrov which is available on DVD. Quinn’s effort was panned by some critics but it sticks to the basic Hemingway plot of a tough fisherman in his twilight years who is nevertheless awe-inspiring to his young apprentice. The almost-impossible-to-film offshore sequences of him catching a huge marlin are well cut and the boat scenes are not only believable but inspiring, as is the sense of what he achieves in his last great catch – soon lost to sharks. Landsmen sometimes see this story as an allegory of Christ’s life but for sailors Hemingway (and Quinn) explain well how big game fishing is (or was) the quintessence of a hunter pitting himself against nature. 1990, Dir Jud Taylor, Granada Ventures, Cert U, 93 mins Dan Houston Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Misc. Boat Related Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ .

You'll find answers to the frequently asked questions as well as basic rules. No need to register unless you would like to participate. You will need to register before you can post: click the red register link or the register tab, above, right. The WoodenBoat Forum is sponsored by WoodenBoat Publications , publisher of WoodenBoat magazine since 1974. To get WoodenBoat delivered to your door or computer, mobile device of choice, etc, click WB Subscriptions . Selling/self promotion are verboten on the Forum. To advertise, take a look at WoodenBoat Advertising . Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Ahoy all. I'm building a model of the somewhat fictional Dulcibella from the well known sailing novel Riddle of the sands. I note that the topic of this vessel has come up on Wooden Boat a few times in the past. People seam to love this vessel and the novel she stars in. I am building a 1/48 scale model of her.

There are some drawings on the internet, and even here, of what I believe is the vessel built for the 1978 Michael York film version. These drawings even show some internal arrangements. You will remember the Dulcibella was a converted wooden lifeboat, the protagonist had decked her, with a shallow deck house, and gave her a rig that eventually became a Yawl. He also added a centerboard and this is where my question comes in. Its the Autumn of 1897 so what will the centerboard look like? In the novel they mention the trunk divides the cabin in half and comprises the bottom of the cabins table. SO I know it is not higher than the table and this gives me the width of the centerboard but not its length. I IMAGINE you want the centerboard as long as possible? But maybe not. I think a lot will depend on how close to the vertical the deployed centerboard will be. Also if it runs fore and aft through the compartment the entry ladder, which faces athwartships, will dead end against it and that seams wrong.

But if it stops short of the foot of the ladder it will be only ten feet long and I am not sure that would provide enough underwater surface area when deployed. I sail on the historic schooner Pioneer owned by the South Street Seaport Museum in New York. Built in 1885, she has a centerboard that spans the space between the two masts but when lowered is at a shallow angle to the keel and is not vertical. She has a Centerbaord Pennant that has a burten tackle on it- its a heavy beast- that hangs form the Trestle Trees. Would a vessel "Somewhat over thirty feet in length" have tackle on the centerboard as complex as that, with rigging to the masthead? It seams like you could get by with less, but I have no experience with smaller wooden vessels of the time and do not know how centerboards are rigged on something under forty feet overall. I would love it if any of you sailors could give me your opinion on this issue, or ANY observations you have on the Dulcibella, I would be happy to hear them! Thanks everyone.

19,082 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! I think You're thinking of blade like dinghy centerboards. The dulcibella would have probably had a centerboard that was some sector of a circle (maybe an octant) with an extension of the arc as a attachment point for the lifting gear. That's just a guess. i'm glad you recognise that she was a converted ships life boat an not the yacht of the movie. The board of trade deemed that lifeboats should be replaced after a certain n.umber of years, so within living memory there was quite a trade turning them into pleasure boats. Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! I have been looking at a lot of drawings of centerboards on small craft and they are never drawn at an angle to the keel of more than around thirty degrees. This appears to leave a lot of the keel still up within the hull and it makes me wonder if they are simply being drawn half lowered as a way of showing their shape?

Or do you suppose this is the full traverse of the centerboards and the inboard portion is providing leverage- or whatever the engineering term would be? 4,494 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Here's Albert Strange's Eel from 1896. The centreboard is an L shape, as is Otter's, hinged at the forward end, the small leg being also forward, and with an above-deck tackle to the mast for lifting. This type of arrangement was pretty common, although sometimes the whole rig was contained below deck. Trying searching on 'hinged centreboards' and see what turns up. Mike Edited to add -- A plate that dropped to only 30ï¿½ could still double the draft Most lifeboat conversions weren't too good, their main advantage being only that the hulls could be had cheaply Note the position of the bumkin, and tiller shape Last edited by Wooden Boat Fittings; 01-26-2016 at 03:39 AM. Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Thanks for everyone's input, I am pleased my question has gotten such a good response. I am still poking around on the internet and I have turned up this information about the prop Dulcibella built for the film: In which it is claimed that the lifeboat Susan Ashley was retired in 1937, converted to a motor yacht, and then later converted into the Ketch seen in the film. Another internet forum yielded a clew that there was an article in Classic Boat (Issue 3 Summer 1987) about the conversion. But I doubt I will be able to uncover this issue, its not online. I found this quote on YBW.com: ...." I don't know what happened to the original, but the year after the film was made the boat used for filming was in Lymington Yacht Haven. I think Laurent Giles had some part in the design. It was immaculate looking, but little of it appeared worked. But that didn't matter because it was only required to look good from the camera's point of view.

Below there was no fitting out - it was a shell containing only a huge Mercedes engine to get it quickly to the right place at the right time. All the cabin interiors were shot in a studio."...... which sounds like a plausible comment, right? I was unable to dig up much about a person named Laurent Giles. Thats all I have for now but I will post more as I get it. Thanks again everyone! -Frank 4,494 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! "John ('Jack') Laurent Giles (1901-1969) was a naval architect who was particularly famous for his sailing yachts. He and his company designed more than 1000 boats from cruisers and racing yachts to megayachts." See Wiki . As to the film version of Dulcibella, I'd be surprised if what you were told about her wasn't correct. Also, don't forget that she could be quite different to the "real" Dulcibella (ie of the book), and not many film-goers would know otherwise -- in other words, the film makers could rightly expect to 'get away with it'.

Mike 2,803 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! RNLI I believe has done a pretty good job with their history. I know that there is a RNLI museum down on the Thames down I think at Deptford. It may well be possible to get drawings of the RNLI boat that purportedly was converted. I suspect that the board was a simple rectangle not dropped very far. Weighted or metal. A quick look at Uffa Fox who sailed a whaleboat (double ended 30' ships boat) with his Sea Scouts shows a rectangular board as do the various whaleboats in Willets Ansel's whaleboat book. Ben Fuller Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Vernon Langille, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity and a quiver of unamed 'yaks. "Bound fast is boatless man." Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings Nick, your first sketch shows what I would call a 'typical' centreboard -- much as in the earlier sketches posted (although the top of the board isn't drawn).

The last photo though seems to be showing a daggerplate case and slot rather than a proper centreboard case -- okay for a lifeboat in deep water, but not so suitable in a shoal-draft cruiser. Mike Look at the diagonal rows of rivets, they suggest a triangular or fan shape board in a square case with internal structure. Your comment about a shoal draft cruiser is only relevant if J Price replaced the original case. That is unlikely but if he did, it will be impossible to answer Frankie's question. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Hwyl Was she an RNLI boat or a ship's lifeboat, I thought the latter. Whichever it was unlikely to be anything like the boat in the movie. The whole point is that it's the antithesis of a "yacht". This is the RNLI lifeboat from the short lived Kingsgate Gap station, north Kent.

Converted by boat builder J Price of Ramsgate, two harbours round the coast to the east. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Peerie Maa Look at the diagonal rows of rivets, they suggest a triangular or fan shape board in a square case with internal structure. Your comment about a shoal draft cruiser is only relevant if J Price replaced the original case. That is unlikely but if he did, it will be impossible to answer Frankie's question. Hh'mmm... I only see those diagonal rivets as reinforcing the case -- maybe allowing the plate to slop a bit fore and aft if it strikes something. It looks that slot's only about a foot long, which doesn't give much room to work the top of an L-shaped centreboard. Along with Gareth, I thought the Dulcibella was a ship's lifeboat conversion -- but I confess to being too lazy to look it up right now....

Mike Last edited by Wooden Boat Fittings; 02-01-2016 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Grammatisised a bit.... Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically. 15,052 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! All I can find in the online novel is, "Two huge coils of stout and dingy warp lay just abaft the mainmast, and summed up the weather-beaten aspect of the little ship. I should add here that in the distant past she had been a lifeboat, and had been clumsily converted into a yacht by the addition of a counter, deck, and the necessary spars. She was built, as all lifeboats are, diagonally, of two skins of teak, and thus had immense strength, though, in the matter of looks, all a hybrid's failings." "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look." Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions!

Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings Hh'mmm... I only see them those diagonal rivets as reinforcing the case -- maybe allowing the plate to slop a bit for and aft if it strikes something. It looks that slot's only about a foot long, which doesn't give much room to work the top of an L-shaped centreboard. With Gareth, I thought the Dulcibella was a ship's lifeboat conversion -- but I confess to being too lazy to look it up right now.... Mike Why do you assume an L shaped plate? A fan shaped plate as shown in the profile drawing in the same post would fit in that case. The slot in the top for the plate lifting gear at the top aft corner of the plate, the slot in the keel the same length as the case, setting the radius of the "fan" shaped plate. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions!

Originally Posted by Thorne All I can find in the online novel is, "Two huge coils of stout and dingy warp lay just abaft the mainmast, and summed up the weather-beaten aspect of the little ship. I should add here that in the distant past she had been a lifeboat, and had been clumsily converted into a yacht by the addition of a counter, deck, and the necessary spars. She was built, as all lifeboats are, diagonally, of two skins of teak, and thus had immense strength, though, in the matter of looks, all a hybrid's failings." The Vixen‘s certificate of registry says she was built by J. Price of Albion Road, Ramsgate, of whom little is known that isn’t legend and hearsay. But it is thought that Price specialised in turning lifeboats into yachts – and that he may have done his boat-building directly on the beach at Ramsgate. It’s also suggested that Price named all his boats Vixen, which suggests either a wicked sense of humour or a terrible failure of imagination. The Thomas Chapman lifeboat at Kingsgate station – but is it the first Thomas Chapman, or the second?

According to Maldwin Drummond, the Vixen was initially the lifeboat Thomas Chapman, built by Thomas William Woolfe & Sons of 46-47 Lower Shadwell – just at the end of the Ratcliffe Highway, which Childers visited during the early pages of The Riddle of the Sands. The Thomas Chapman was the second lifeboat of that name, built for the lifeboat station at Kingsgate, near Margate in Kent. The only trouble was, it seems the boat was a little too wide for the gap in the cliffs down which Kingsgate lifeboats were launched, and it seems the Thomas Chapman only launched once, after which he was sold to Joseph Price, and became a she, the Vixen. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Peerie Maa Why do you assume an L shaped plate? Because that's where this discussion of shoal-draft cruiser centreboards started, I guess. Originally Posted by Peerie Maa A fan shaped plate as shown in the profile drawing in the same post would fit in that case.

The slot in the top for the plate lifting gear at the top aft corner of the plate, the slot in the keel the same length as the case, setting the radius of the "fan" shaped plate. But if it's only a fan-shaped plate then there's no need for a slot at all, just a hole for the pendant to run through. Having a needlessly uncovered slot is just a recipe for full bilges. Pivot at forward end, pendant at after end, slot fully covered -- Also, there's no sign of a pivot (especially), or a pendant hole or covering strip in your photo. Or is that just an under-construction pic, and none of those things had been added at that stage? Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Peerie Maa The CB case from a much later motor lifeboat, still below the deck Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings But if it's only a fan-shaped plate then there's no need for a slot at all, just a hole for the pendant to run through.

Having a needlessly uncovered slot is just a recipe for full bilges. Pivot at forward end, pendant at after end, slot fully covered -- Also, there's no sign of a pivot (especially), or a pendant hole or covering strip in your photo. Or is that just an under-construction pic, and none of those things had been added at that stage? The pivot structure is most likely hidden in all of that clutter at the lower right corner of the image. Alternatively it may be through the external keel, allowing for maintenance without opening up the airtight tanks under the deck. Similarly with the lifting gear, there is more than one way to skin a cat. What works for your little dinghy wont work for a 7 ton lifeboat. Any water coming up through that slot will run aft on the inner bottom and out through the drains, along with all of the other water coming in over the rail. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! I'm listening to the unabridged audio version uploaded to Librivox.org, combing the chapters for references to the visual appearance of the Dulcibella. I am hoping to find a passage where they mention the color of the hull, it is white in the film version. I did come across a reference to the drop keel/centerboard. Also called the "Plate" in one line of dialogue. Caruthers has to go below periodically to raise and lower it so this tells me all its tackle is below decks. He also says it will spit mud into the compartment if he doesn't jam some rags into the gaps, so this should say something about its construction? I found an actual photo of the lifeboat the Movie Prop Dulcibella was built from: the Susan Ashley. I will see if I can put up the photo. Attached Images Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions!

Originally Posted by Peerie Maa The pivot structure is most likely hidden in all of that clutter at the lower right corner of the image. Alternatively it may be through the external keel, allowing for maintenance without opening up the airtight tanks under the deck. Certainly either would be possible. Originally Posted by Peerie Maa Similarly with the lifting gear, there is more than one way to skin a cat. What works for your little dinghy wont work for a 7 ton lifeboat. Well, my "little dinghy" was actually 15' and a quarter-tonner; and while her steel centreboard didn't need any lifting tackle, had it been any heavier it would have. I agree that her rig certainly wouldn't work for your 7-ton lifeboat. Lifting tackle would have been essential if you wanted to fine-tune the draft under way. Are you suggesting the tackle would have been rigged vertically through the slot, like my hand-operated one, and as Frankie says Pioneer's was??

In a cruiser the size of Dulcibella I think the top of the c/b would almost certainly have been L-shaped as originally supposed, the top part (the 'L') protruding from the case (or the case built up around it), and the tackle operated horizontally from the top of the 'L', using the mast as the anchor point for the tackle. The drawings of Otter and Eel both show that sort of arrangement, and a similar geometry was quite common in many shoal-water craft that size. But the slot in the lifeboat photo only looks just big enough to take the 'L', without allowing any fore-and-aft movement for it. That's why I was inclined to think the case was for a permanent dagger-board rather than an adjustable centre-board. But, for instance, was the c/b of an 1890s lifeboat made of steel or timber? If the former, and depending on the pivot position, then just possibly the 'L' could have been made narrow enough fore-and-aft to operate successfully within that foot-long slot. More information would be useful.

But as far as the OP's initial question is concerned, the top of an L-shaped centreboard would not necessarily have to protrude through the deck, as those sketches show. It could be low enough to be accommodated under the fore-deck. A table could certainly be built over the after-part, and I would expect the table might abut a full-height bulkhead at the forward end, the bulkhead dividing the saloon from a fore-cabin where the c/b tackle could operate unseen. (This is conjecture on my part -- I don't remember enough about the story.) With the lifting tackle leading first forward to the mast, then to starboard, then aft, as shown for Eel (but below deck), there would still be room for a pipe cot in the fore-cabin to port, and for plenty of additional stowage. As to the length of the case in the main cabin, a centreboard's effectiveness is mainly a function of its depth, not its length, and it doesn't have to be particularly long.

You will see from the sketch of Eel that there would be sufficient room for a companionway ladder to enter the cabin from the side (something else I'd forgotten about in Dulcibella), aft of the c/b case. Mike Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings Certainly either would be possible. Well, my "little dinghy" was actually 15' and a quarter-tonner; and while her steel centreboard didn't need any lifting tackle, had it been any heavier it would have. I agree that her rig certainly wouldn't work for your 7-ton lifeboat. Lifting tackle would have been essential if you wanted to fine-tune the draft under way. Are you suggesting the tackle would have been rigged vertically through the slot, like my hand-operated one, and as Frankie says Pioneer's was??

In a cruiser the size of Dulcibella I think the top of the c/b would almost certainly have been L-shaped as originally supposed, the top part (the 'L') protruding from the case (or the case built up around it), and the tackle operated horizontally from the top of the 'L', using the mast as the anchor point for the tackle. The drawings of Otter and Eel both show that sort of arrangement, and a similar geometry was quite common in many shoal-water craft that size. But the slot in the lifeboat photo only looks just big enough to take the 'L', without allowing any fore-and-aft movement for it. That's why I was inclined to think the case was for a permanent dagger-board rather than an adjustable centre-board. But, for instance, was the c/b of an 1890s lifeboat made of steel or timber? If the former, and depending on the pivot position, then just possibly the 'L' could have been made narrow enough fore-and-aft to operate successfully within that foot-long slot. More information would be useful.

But as far as the OP's initial question is concerned, the top of an L-shaped centreboard would not necessarily have to protrude through the deck, as those sketches show. It could be low enough to be accommodated under the fore-deck. A table could certainly be built over the after-part, and I would expect the table might abut a full-height bulkhead at the forward end, the bulkhead dividing the saloon from a fore-cabin where the c/b tackle could operate unseen. (This is conjecture on my part -- I don't remember enough about the story.) With the lifting tackle leading first forward to the mast, then to starboard, then aft, as shown for Eel (but below deck), there would still be room for a pipe cot in the fore-cabin to port, and for plenty of additional stowage. As to the length of the case in the main cabin, a centreboard's effectiveness is mainly a function of its depth, not its length, and it doesn't have to be particularly long.

You will see from the sketch of Eel that there would be sufficient room for a companionway ladder to enter the cabin from the side (something else I'd forgotten about in Dulcibella), aft of the c/b case. Mike You are forgetting that Vixen/Dulcibela was converted from an RNLI lifeboat. It is extremely unlikely that the boat builder J Price would have ripped out the perfectly serviceable centre plate and case to build a new one of differing design. He had a living to make, so will have spent as little on materials and time as he could get away with. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. 4,494 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Nick, you in turn might be forgetting that I'm from about 10,000 miles away and don't know many of the technical details of RNLI lifeboats. Perhaps you do know them. If so, please enlighten us as to how their centreboards were in fact rigged a century ago.

(I was hoping I'd put that question politely enough in my last post, but perhaps it was too polite for you to notice it. ) But more to the point, how do we know that the fictional Dulcibella had been an RNLI lifeboat at all? The real Vixen may have been, and you may have assumed that she was what Childers based Dulcibella on (or you may even know that for a fact, in which case please enlighten us further). But most lifeboat conversions were from ship's lifeboats, and it seems from a quick perusal of the book on-line that which type of lifeboat Dulcibella had been simply wasn't specified. So as far as I can see, and since we apparently have no infomation one way or the other, a conversion from a ship's lifeboat seems a better bet than from an RNLI lifeboat. For Frankie, I note that there was indeed a fore-cabin -- Childers refers to it as a forecastle, and says it's divided from the main cabin by a "low sliding door like that of a rabbit-hutch". Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings Nick, you in turn might be forgetting that I'm from about 10,000 miles away and don't know many of the technical details of RNLI lifeboats. Perhaps you do know them. If so, please enlighten us as to how their centreboards were in fact rigged a century ago. (I was hoping I'd put that question politely enough in my last post, but perhaps it was too polite for you to notice it. ) But more to the point, how do we know that the fictional Dulcibella had been an RNLI lifeboat at all? The real Vixen may have been, and you may have assumed that she was what Childers based Dulcibella on (or you may even know that for a fact, in which case please enlighten us further). But most lifeboat conversions were from ship's lifeboats, and it seems from a quick perusal of the book on-line that which type of lifeboat Dulcibella had been simply wasn't specified.

So as far as I can see, and since we apparently have no infomation one way or the other, a conversion from a ship's lifeboat seems a better bet than from an RNLI lifeboat. For Frankie, I note that there was indeed a fore-cabin -- Childers refers to it as a forecastle, and says it's divided from the main cabin by a "low sliding door like that of a rabbit-hutch". Read all of the posts, look at all of the pictures. There are quotes c&p'd that even name the RNLI lifeboat and who converted her. The pictures that I posted are of vintage RNLI lifeboats that have been restored to original. I have posted two pictures of Vixen/Dulcibella at the end of her life. I have tried to post as much original factual data as I could find. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. 2,803 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions!

I wonder if any of the followers of this thread could stop in at Chatham where the RNLI has their historic lifeboat collection, get a couple of pictures. They have a couple of 1900 row/sail boats there. Remotely it would be possible for some one perhaps the OP to contact the RNLI archives to see what they might have in the way of plans or what the system was at that time for plans. I know the NMM in Greenwich has plans for most of the 19th century Royal Naval ships boats; they may have the RNLI plans as well. Ben Fuller Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Vernon Langille, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity and a quiver of unamed 'yaks. "Bound fast is boatless man." Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by Wooden Boat Fittings Yes, read all the posts, looked at all the pictures. Nowhere did I see where Childers says his boat Vixen was used as the model for the fictional Dulcibella. This was exactly the sort of information which, if you'd had it, might have helped the discussion.

Seems you don't. It also seems that we're at the end of this conversation, I guess. But perhaps Frankie might have learnt something from it anyway. Did you read this from the posted link? It’s now universally acknowledged that the model for the Dulcibella was a boat called the Vixen, which Childers acquired in or around 1897. He wrote an article about the Vixen for Yachting Monthly Magazine (my source for all this is the book The Riddle, by the magnificently-named Maldwin Drummond). In this article, he described the Vixen like this: To start with, no one could call Vixen beautiful. We grew to love her in the end, but never to admire her. At first I did not even love her for she was a pis aller, bought in a hurry in default of a better, and a week spent fitting her for cruising – a new era for her – had somehow not cemented our affections. Childers was refitting the Vixen for his own voyage to the East Frisians, which became the inspiration for The Riddle of the Sands and which we’ll cover in a future post.

In his article, Childers describes Vixen as being thirty foot long with a draft of four foot, or six foot four inches with the centre-board down. She is listed in Hunt’s Universal Yacht List as being the property of R.E.Childers of 20 Carlyle Mansions, Cheyne Walk, London SW from 1898 to 1903. That is as close as any one can get, and seems to hang together. Furthermore, I would be surprised if Frankie disagrees. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! I hope the following helps The RNLI have an archive here: I think if you email them they will have the plans for the boat that became Vixen and then Dulcibella The national maratime museum have Erskine Childers log books: which document his cruise to the Friesian islands. The Scottish Maratime museum at Anstruther have a lifeboat that may be similar to the Thomas Chapman?

it had two center boards. (There is a picture on their site.) And two more links. The first has a picture of Vixen sailing. Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Thanks so much JD this is some great material! I am a fan of the podcast of your last link and have listened to all the episodes. I had emailed the RNLI but they were unable to help me at the time, but back then I didn't know which lifeboat to ask about and could only mention the story in the novel. I have since moved forward with my model and have carved the hull. I will put up pictures if it is allowed to digress so far from actual real world sailing? I know this is a forum for real vessels after all. -Frank Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by JerseyCity Frankie Thanks so much JD this is some great material! I am a fan of the podcast of your last link and have listened to all the episodes.

I had emailed the RNLI but they were unable to help me at the time, but back then I didn't know which lifeboat to ask about and could only mention the story in the novel. I have since moved forward with my model and have carved the hull. I will put up pictures if it is allowed to digress so far from actual real world sailing? I know this is a forum for real vessels after all. -Frank We love pictures, and you will not be the first to post photos of a model build. Go for it. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! It has been entertaining trying to match the vessel in the novel with the associated real world vessels. In the novel the Dulcibella starts out as a gaff cutter and in a flashback we learn she gets a mizzen and becomes a yawl. So I wonder did the Vixen also undergo conversion to a yawl later too?

There are some other things that do not line up with the above photo: Dulcibella is described as having three reef bands, and also a martingale. I puzzle over the martingale since I don't see the headrig as being that large or complex. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Dulcibella is fictional, hence the change in rig and talk of martingales. However if you want to make her look more like Vixen, you need to take away more fullness under the counter. The counter added to the boat was very shallow. Those new topside planks were planted on top of the original hull plank, so there was a doubling of thickness to the hull plank there, and they did not fair out at the stem. It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web. Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! I dissagree about the fullness under the counter.

This portion of the deck has to support the jigger mast too and while probably not too much of a load on the structure, it would have to be more than a cantilevered deck brought further aft. Also some deadwood would have to go into the (originally) double ended stern to accommodate the rudder assembly and this would need to be faired into the new shape of the stern. But speaking of the hull, I have some paint on the model now and I have to wonder what they had available for bottom paint back in the late 1800's? I can't imagine the hull coppered. "White stuff"? I put on a coat of some red oxide looking brown but I am not very confident in its veracity. Here are some recent shots of the model: I wish I could learn the trick of putting up images so they are visible in the post and not exist only as links...... Last edited by JerseyCity Frankie; 02-23-2016 at 07:11 PM. Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Originally Posted by JerseyCity Frankie I dissagree about the fullness under the counter.

This portion of the deck has to support the jigger mast too and while probably not too much of a load on the structure, it would have to be more than a cantilevered deck brought further aft. Also some deadwood would have to go into the (originally) double ended stern to accommodate the rudder assembly and this would need to be faired into the new shape of the stern. But speaking of the hull, I have some paint on the model now and I have to wonder what they had available for bottom paint back in the late 1800's? I can't imagine the hull coppered. "White stuff"? I put on a coat of some red oxide looking brown but I am not very confident in its veracity. Here are some recent shots of the model: Jersey City, New Jersey, united states Posts 11 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! The novel has a flashback that is integral to the plot. In the flashback the Dulcibella is a Sloop and is then damaged badly in a grounding with her rudder beat off and who knows what else.

By the time the action in the novel is taking place she has been repaired and converted into a yawl. I am inclined to believe the conversion was done well and not motivated by cost as you appear to suggest. I AM Building the fictional vessel but the lines I have, such as they are, appear to be of the movie prop vessel. To my eye, I have matched the profile shown in my drawing. I am surprised there are no other models of the Dulcibella on the internet. At least I have not found any. It would be very interesting to see how she is being interpreted. 4,494 Re: Building a model of Dulcibella from Riddle of the Sands. Have questions! Well, sparked by all this, I've just re-read the book. Nowhere did I see any reference to the companionway leading athwartships, as suggested in Post #1. I can't imagine it leading from anywhere other than forward from the cockpit, although it may not necessarily have been on the centreline.

If the fictional Dulcibella (not Vixen) was indeed a converted RNLI lifeboat (Nick will go to his grave swearing she was one, presumably on the basis of the unsupported assertion quoted in his linked article by Lloyd Shepherd*, but I remain to be convinced), then she already had a centreboard. Some suggestions have been made as to how it might have been designed or rigged, but no-one seems to know for sure (other than that the pendant was below-deck, and in the forecsatle). Of course, whether the fictional Dulcibella were in fact a converted ship's lifeboat -- of which plenty abounded for conversion -- the same comment might anyway apply.) I note that the first photo in Post #10 shows the real Vixen's having been renamed Dulcibella by 1942. However, she had been sold by Childers some time between 1898 and 1903, being replaced by Asgard around 1905, and I think there's little doubt that someone other than Childers did the renaming (presumably some time after the book became well-known).

But while you're not building a model of Vixen herself, are you building one of the film version or the book version of Dulcibella, because it seems they're not the same -- the film Dulcibella was apparently converted from an Isle of Wight (presumably ex-RNLI) lifeboat. Mike

Question: Dulcibella is the name of the boat in which classic novel?
Answer: THE RIDDLE OF THE SANDS