Correct Forms of Address Correct Forms of Address I provide the following summary charts for your convenience, with three important caveats: 1. Please do not use this page in a vacuum. Most of the usages listed here are explained in greater detail elsewhere in these pages, which is why I have resisted including charts at all until now. These charts are for convenience and reference. 2. Most of the information on this page comes directly from the 1932 edition of Black's Correct Form . Books like this which purport to demonstrate "correct forms of address" are aimed at a specific audience: commoners, i.e., those of us who were not raised "in the system" and haven't married into it. Usage among families and social equals could vary considerably from what is presented here, for all I know. Furthermore, I'm not even certain that period letters and memoirs help, because there could be different forms for (even informal) writing and in speech, and forms of course further vary in correspondence depending upon the recipient. Until a peer's daughter joins the Heyer Mailing List and tells me what's what, I welcome corrections on anything on this page from anyone in a position to know better, especially from first-hand experience. 3.

These charts assume for illustrative purposes that eldest sons of peers bear a courtesy title only one degree lower than their father's, but that is not always the case. Specific Usages 1. First Names First names were almost never used in speech, except in extremely limited circumstances, before this century. I have studied memoirs and letters of the late 18th/early 19th centuries and have formed a tentative hypothesis that use of first names was resticted almost exclusively to children growing up together, or in some cases boys at school together. They would continue to use their childhood forms of address throughout their lives. Parents might also ignore titles when addressing their children, but very often if there was a title available, say an eldest son's courtesy title, even a mother would use it, albeit alone, e.g., Hartington. In Lady Harriet Cavendish's letters to her family, she always refers to her brother, the Marquis of Hartington, as "Hart" or "Hartington," as did their mother. She calls her cousin, Lady Caroline Ponsonby, "Caro" or "Caroline," as she likewise called her half-sister, Caroline de St. Jules.

She also calls many of the Lambs by their first names. They were all raised together. (Both Carolines married Lambs, and so after their marriages Lady Harriet would distinguish between them as "Caro-William" and "Caro-George," respectively.) But Lady Harriet never refers to anyone outside this close circle of people she knew from infancy by their Christian names; she always uses their correct titles. (However, these references are in written correspondence, and may or may not reflect the terms used in actual speech.) Among men, rather than first names, intimacy was usually shown by using the title alone, e.g., Sherringham, Wrotham (or some diminutive of it, like "Sherry" or "Hart"), or by using the last name alone, e.g., Fairfax.

Occasionally first names were used among very close friends who, as mentioned above, attended boarding school together from a young age, especially if the boy didn't have the peerage while he was in school, but inherited it later (which is why Lord Wrotham's friends call him "George," while they call Lord Sherringham "Sherry": Sherry had already inherited his peerage when he met them all in school, while George inherited his after they had all grown up). Even spouses often maintained more formal modes of address than Christian names, even in private. Most often a lady would call her husband by his title alone, as his intimate friends or his family would, e.g., Chatham.

Obviously it would depend upon the couple, and many factors might contribute, such as age disparity or actual intimacy, but a wife would almost always refer to her husband this way, even to her closest friends and relations, and in company they would call each other "my lord" and "my lady," or perhaps some diminutive like "my dear" or "my love." It is hard to identify sources to back up this hypothesis, since primary sources from earlier centuries generally do not include transcripts of conversations, but I really believe that a much more formal level of discourse was maintained than what is portrayed in romance novels. 2. "Social" vs. "Formal" Correspondence I am not certain exactly what the difference is between "social" and "formal" correspondence. Presumably "formal" correspondence is any address made to a peer in his capacity as a member of the government or of the House of Lords, or as a landlord or capitalist. Presumably "social" correspondence includes invitations to social events and letters between friends. But what if a friend or fellow peer writes on a political subject? Which rule prevails? What about when writing socially to a family connection one has not met (for example, Miss Taverner writing to Lord Worth, or Mr.

Collins writing to Mr. Bennet)? Is there ever a social event that is considered so "formal" that it requires addressing the invitations in a "formal" manner, and announcing arrivals "formally"-- Royal Drawing Rooms and coronations come to mind. What about invitations to an evening at Prinny's Brighton Pavilion or at Carlton House? Were other social events, such as balls and assemblies, considered in terms of address more formal than routs or Venetian breakfasts or morning calls? In other words, is there a difference in the way a servant would announce a morning caller vs. how the same servant would announce the same person at a ball? And when, before this century, did a peeress ever receive "formal" correspondence? 3. Use of "The Honourable" "The Honourable" is a title which applies to younger sons of earls and all children of viscounts and barons (and the wives of those sons). However, it is used only on envelopes, and is never spoken, even by a servant, or used in the salutation of a letter. It is not even included on calling cards.

(A person is announced by servants according to the name on his calling card.) Thus it is impossible to know, merely upon introduction, that a person ranks as an Honourable. Black says that "[w]hen it is desired to indicate it, however, a reference to the holder's parentage would be permissible." 4. Use of "The" "The" is a designation only used for peers and their families. It is not used, for example, by baronets, knights, or commoners (except when referring to the widow of a baronet). The wife of a baronet or knight would be Lady Burke, and never The Lady Burke, while the wife of a peer would be The Lady Melgum, and a peer's daughter who is entitlted to use the "Lady" designation would be The Lady Serena Carlow. However, when the usage is not formal, "The" may be dropped. (I am not absolutely certain whether this "The" usage is appropriate for the eldest sons (heirs) and their wives and children, but I think it is, since courtesy titles are supposed to be used exactly as if they held the title by right.) 5.

Use of "Miss," "Mr." and "Mrs." With and Without Christian Names When "Miss" is used alone with a surname, it refers to the eldest unmarried daughter. Other daughters must be distinguished by using their Christian names. For example, Miss Bennet, Miss Elizabeth Bennet, Miss Mary Bennet, Miss Catherine Bennet, Miss Lydia Bennet. Or, collectively, the Misses Bennet. In conversation, where none of her sisters are present, a younger sister may be addressed as Miss Bennet. If Jane and Lizzie are standing together, however, they are addressed as Miss Bennet and Miss Elizabeth. When "Mr." is used alone with a surname, it refers to the eldest son (of a Viscount, baron, or commoner). His younger brothers are distinguished from him in speech by using their Christian names, similarly to the use of "Miss." Their wives adopt precisely the same usage, only with "Mrs." instead of "Mr." Mr. Plowden is the eldest son, and Mrs. Plowden is his wife; Mr. Thomas Plowden is a younger son, and Mrs. Thomas Plowden is his wife. 6.

Use of "Miss," "Mr." and "Mrs." With "The Honourable" In writing, "Mr." and "Miss" are never used in conjunction with "The Honourable." The address on the envelope to the eldest Mr. Plowden would be "To The Honble. James Plowden." An envelope to his wife would be "To The Honble. Mrs. Plowden." Her husband's Christian name is left out, to denote that he is the eldest; and unlike "Mr." and "Miss," using "Mrs." in conjunction with "The Honourable" is correct. But this couple would be announced as "Mr. Plowden" and "Mrs. Plowden" (separately), or "Mr. and Mrs. Plowden" (together). However, in Persuasion, Austen introduces Sir Walter's exalted cousins, the Dowager Viscountess Dalrymple and her daughter, thus: "The Bath paper one morning announced the arrival of the Dowager Viscountess Dalrymple, and her daughter, the Honourable Miss Carteret. . .

" and, a little later: "they had the cards of Dowager Viscountess Dalrymple, and the Hon. Miss Carteret, to be arranged wherever they might be most visible; and 'Our cousins in Laura-place,' -- 'Our cousins, Lady Dalrymple and Miss Carteret,' were talked of to everybody." (Vol. II, Chapter iv) So it is not clear when this rule about never using "Miss" with "The Hon." evolved. Or perhaps the rule only applies to addressing envelopes, and not to newsprint. But Black clearly states that the rule applies to calling cards. 7. Titles in Speech In speech, with a few rare exceptions for extremely formal occasions, all ranks below duke are called "Lord" and "Lady" in speech, and never their titles. For example, "Lord and Lady Withington" rather than "The Earl and Countess of Withington." The titles would never be used in intimate speech, even when referring to them. Dukes The rule is that a social inferior addresses him as "Your Grace" and a social equal as "Duke." I have not been able to discover where precisely the line is drawn to distinguish social inferiors from equals.

Obviously it is not drawn at the dukes themselves. My tentative hypothesis is that a "social equal" is anyone who is a peer or a member of a peer's family. A lower line might be drawn at baronets, knights, or gentlemen, but I think that the connotation of the word "peer" lends itself to drawing the line at barons. So Miss Anne Elliot would address a duke as "Your Grace," while her cousin, Miss Carteret, would call him "Duke." Also, the salutation of formal correspondence to a duke is "My Lord Duke." But he is never called "my lord." This is example is the Duke of Glastonbury, who holds the secondary title Marquess of Tenwhestle, and whose family surname of Drake. Person Married Daughters of Dukes When a daughter of a duke marries a peer or the heir to a duke or marquess, she takes the title of her husband (even though her precedence is above his). But when she marries a commoner, a baronet, or the heir to an earl, viscount, or baron, she may, if she chooses, retain her "Lady <Firstname>" title.

If she is married to an heir to a peerage, she may only keep this form until her husband inherits his peerage, at which time she loses her own precedence and acquires that of her husband, even if it means she will move down several slots on the Table of Precedence. Note that even if she marries the younger son of a duke, she retains her own precedence, because daughters of dukes rank one degree higher than younger sons of dukes, and one degree lower than eldest sons of dukes (a ranking which is preserved in the lesser ranks of the peerage as well). Marriage with: Married Daughters of Marquesses When a daughter of a marquess marries a peer or the heir to a duke or marquess, she takes the title of her husband (even though her precedence is above his). But when she marries a commoner, a baronet, or the heir to an earl, viscount or baron, she may, if she chooses, retain her "Lady <Firstname>" title.

If she is married to an heir to a peerage, she may only keep this form until her husband inherits his peerage, at which time she loses her own precedence and acquires that of her husband, even if it means she will move down several slots on the Table of Precedence. Note that even if she marries the younger son of a marquess, she retains her own precedence, because daughters of marquesses rank one degree higher than younger sons of marquesses, and one degree lower than eldest sons of marquesses (a ranking which is preserved in the lesser ranks of the peerage as well). Marriage with: Married Daughters of Earls When a daughter of an earl marries a peer or the heir to a duke or marquess, she takes the title of her husband (even though her precedence is above his). But when she marries a commoner, a baronet, or the heir to a viscount or baron, she may, if she chooses, retain her "Lady <Firstname>" title.

If she is married to an heir to a peerage, she may only keep this form until her husband inherits his peerage, at which time she loses her own precedence and acquires that of her husband, even if it means she will move down several slots on the Table of Precedence. Note that even if she marries the younger son of an earl, she retains her own precedence, because daughters of earls rank one degree higher than younger sons of earls, and one degree lower than eldest sons of marquesses (a ranking which is preserved in the lesser ranks of the peerage as well). Marriage with: Married Daughters of Baronets Since she has no distinctions of her own, she takes the rank of her husband. If a younger son of an earl, viscount, or baron is given a baronetcy, then he is allowed to keep his "Honorable" designation in addition to his new "Sir" dignity for the addressing of envelopes, e.g., The Honble. Sir William Lucas, Bt., and The Honble. Lady Lucas.

But since the title "Honorable" is never used in speech or even on calling cards, the forms of announcing and addressing in speech remain the same as for an ordinary baronet. On to The 1st Duke of Marlborough If you dispute a fact from these pages, please contact me , and if you can, provide a contradicting source. These pages are a work in progress and I expect them to change in the future, although what I present today is as accurate as I can make it. Courtesy Titles Courtesy Titles A peer's wife and children are granted the use of certain titles, depending upon the rank of the peer. Here is an extremely oversimplified chart, so please read the explanations which follow carefully. Peerage Type The Honourable <Firstname> <Surname> The Honourable <Firstname> <Surname> * Eldest sons (heirs) of earls, marquesses, and dukes are allowed to adopt their father's next-highest title as a courtesy, which they use in every way as if it were a "real" peerage. (47) So, for example, the Duke of Avon's heir is known as the Marquess of Vidal, which is the duke's highest subordinate title.

His subordinate titles are distributed by courtesy only to his direct heirs, that is, his eldest son, and his eldest son's eldest son, etc. The Duke of Devonshire's eldest son bears by courtesy the title the Marquess of Hartington, and Lord Hartington's eldest son (b. 1969) is the Earl of Burlington. (48) If Lord Hartington were to predecease his father, then Lord Burlington would become the Marquess of Hartington, and his son, if he were to have one, would be born as Earl of Burlington. * It was a 17th century custom to throw in a number of new lesser titles to "fill in" when creating a new higher title, so the older a dukedom or an earldom, the more likely the second title is to be a much lower one, skipping steps, if you will: the eldest sons of the Dukes of Norfolk, Grafton, St. Albans, Richmond, Buccleuch, Newcastle, and Northumberland are earls, the Dukes of Dorset's and Manchester's are viscounts, and the Duke of Somerset's only a Lord.

(49) But since Dorset's and Machester's eldest sons are viscounts, their eldest sons cannot take a barony as a courtesy title. If there is no courtesy title available, the eldest son of a duke, marquess, or earl takes the family name as a courtesy title. (49a) Several marquesses have the same title as marquess and earl, e.g., the Marquess and Earl of Hertford and the Marquess and Earl of Salisbury. In these cases, the heir skips the matching peerage, and takes the next highest title as a courtesy title, to distinguish him from his father. The heir of the Marquess and Earl of Salisbury is thus Viscount Cranbourne, and the heir of the Marquess and Earl of Hertford is thus Earl of Yarmouth (whose father happens to have two earldoms at his disposal). The Duke of Wellington similarly holds two marquessates: that of Wellington and that of Douro, so his heir takes the courtesy title Marquess Douro to distinguish him from his father.

[During the 1st Duke's lifetime, all of his lesser titles were also either Wellington or Douro, and the family name, Wellesley, was used as a title by his brother, the 1st Marquess Wellesley, so I'm not sure what courtesy title would have been given to the eldest son of the eldest son of the 1st Duke of Wellington. Fortunately, the issue never came up; and eventually the Dukes of Wellington also inherited the lesser titles of the 1st Marquess Wellesley (whose title became extinct upon his death), which include the Earl of Mornington and Viscount Wellesley, so there are currently three titles available to the direct heirs of the Duke of Wellington.] It is important to note, however, that an heir of a peer who is not a direct descendant of that peer (i.e., his eldest son or his eldest son's eldest son) does not take any secondary title as a courtesy title. He remains known by whatever title (if any) he derived from his own father until he accedes to the peerage. This is a common mistake in historical romances. For example, the 6th Duke of Devonshire never married.

Since he also had no brothers, his heir was a cousin. The cousin was a great-grandson of the 4th Duke; before the 6th Duke died, he was plain Mr. William Cavendish. Even though the line of succession was clear, Mr. William Cavendish was never given the courtesy title Marquess of Hartington. Similarly, after Mr. William Cavendish succeeded and became the 7th Duke, he was in turn succeeded by his eldest son, who became the 8th Duke. But the 8th Duke had no son, and he was succeeded by his nephew, a son of his younger brother, Lord Edward. Before he acceded, the 8th Duke was plain Mr. Victor Cavendish. (49b) Children of barons and viscounts and younger sons of earls are known by their First and family Surname (not their father's title), prefixed by "The Honourable," for example, The Honourable Eugenia Wraxton. (46) Sons of dukes and marquesses prefix "Lord" to their First and family Surname (not their father's title), for example, Lord Lionel Ware.

(51) Sons of earls, however, only get to be called "The Honourable," not "Lord," for example, Col. The Hon. Charles Audley (who, like Lord Lionel, derives his title not from his brother, but from his late father). (52) Daughters of earls, marquesses, and dukes similarly are known as "Lady <Firstname> <Surname>," for example, Lady Serena Carlow. (50) Daughters take the precedence , if not the actual title, of their eldest brother. (55) (See the explanation of parcener .) Duchesses (45) are referred to as "The Duchess" or "Her Grace" and addressed as "Duchess" or "Your Grace." (45a) All other wives of peers are "Lady <Husband'sTitle>," for example, Lady Spenborough.

Wives of commoners who bear courtesy titles also take their ranks and titles (with a few careful exceptions outlined below) from their husbands, so they are also "Lady <Husband'sTitle>." If she is the wife of the younger son of a duke or marquess, this means that she will be addressed, for example, as Lady Lionel Ware. Or, if her husband's courtesy title is her father-in-law's next-highest title, she will be addressed as if her husband actually enjoyed that peerage, for example, Lady Castlereagh. The daughters of the 11th Duke of Marlborough are known as Lady Henrietta Spencer-Churchill and Lady Alexandra Spencer-Churchill, and his younger son is known as Lord Edward Spencer-Churchill. (53) When Lord Edward marries, his wife will take his title, but since it is merely a prefix to his name, she will be known as Lady Edward Spencer-Churchill. However, it does not work the other way; when Lady Henrietta married, her husband could not then become known as Lord Henrietta Spencer-Churchill. He is still plain Mr.

Nathan Gelber; she is known as Lady Henrietta Gelber, and her son, David, is plain Mr. David Gelber. (54) Similarly, Mr. Beaumaris, whose mother was the daughter of a duke, is a plain Mr., like his father. Why is Lord Lionel known as Lord Lionel rather than Lord Ware? The first mention of him calls him "Lord Lionel Ware," but after that he is just "Lord Lionel." The rule is (as above): younger sons of dukes and marquesses are styled "Lord <Firstname> <Surname>." But I have quoted this question in its entirety because it demonstrates a very common misunderstanding of titles which I see all the time in Regency romances. Among other things, it shows the confusion between the surname and the title (see Territorial Titles ). Gilly's titles are: "the Most Noble Adolphus Gillespie Vernon Ware, Duke of Sale and Marquis of Ormesby; Earl of Sale; Baron Ware of Thame; Baron Ware of Stoven; and Baron Ware of Rufford..." So Ware is the surname, and Sale is the highest title.

Notice that he is introduced with his (full) name first, followed by a comma, followed by his string of titles, greatest to least (see John Hopfner's explanation of Gilly's titles). Even if he were merely Baron Ware, he would never be introduced as "Lord Adolphus Ware." He would be "Adolphus, Baron Ware." This is a very common error -- but you can't get from "Lord Lionel Ware" to "Lord Ware." Peerages don't use first names. The very fact that the "Lord" comes before his first name tells you that it is a courtesy title, not a peerage. It might help to remember the most famous example (to Americans, anyway): Alfred, Lord Tennyson. This is also true for ladies. A peeress is never "Lady Serena Rotherham"; she is simply "Lady Rotherham," because, again, if the "Lady" title precedes the first name, that tells you that the title is a courtesy title which derives from her father's rank, not her husband's (or her own, if she is a peeress in her own right ). So before she married, Lady Rotherham was Lady Serena Carlow.

(There is an exception to this rule concerning peers' daughters who are married to the heirs of peers who also bear courtesy titles; see the discussion below .) Lord Lionel's wife is Lady Lionel - which is correct. She would use the title Lady with her husband's first name. We can thus assume that she was not "Lady <Firstname>" in her own right when she married the former Duke of Sale's second son. No, we cannot assume that. All we can assume is that her rank before she married was lower than the rank of the wife of a duke's younger son. She could be an earl's daughter, which would allow her the "Lady <Firstname>" style, but an earl's daughter is below the wife of a duke's younger son in the Table of Precedence , so she would take the style "Lady Lionel" from her husband. If she were the daughter of a duke, she could maintain her courtesy title by birth ("Lady <Firstname>") even after marriage with the younger son of a duke. (A detailed explanation of this follows below .) Secondly, a person is never Lord/Lady X " in his/her own right " unless that person actually inherits the peerage.

A person who is granted a courtesy title by birth -- even if that title is one of his father's lesser peerages -- does not "hold the title in his/her own right." The 1st Duke of Marlborough 's eldest daughter, who did inherit the peerage (via Parliamentary and royal warrant), was Duchess of Marlborough in her own right. But before her father died, she was not Lady Henrietta "in her own right." She was Lady Henrietta by courtesy. When she married the Earl of Godolphin, she was the Countess of Godolphin by courtesy (even though she was called a "peeress" after her marriage). And her husband, the earl, did not become Duke of Marlborough by courtesy; he remained a mere earl (much like the husband of a queen is not a king by courtesy). When Fanny marries Hector, will she still retain the title of Lady Fanny even though Hector is just a Mr.? Lady Spenborough was never "Lady Fanny," which is a courtesy title only bestowed upon the daughter of an earl, marquess, or duke.

Before she married Lord Spenborough, Fanny had been plain Miss Claypole, daughter of Sir William Claypole and Lady Claypole -- children of knights and baronets having no special form of address. As the wife of a peer, she is not known as "Lady Fanny Spenborough"; instead, she is "Lady Spenborough"-- and this would be true no matter what her parentage, because all wives of peers take their titles and ranks from their husbands. Fanny is not even the Dowager Lady Spenborough since she is not the mother or stepmother of the new earl. (55a) So now there are two Lady Spenboroughs-- but one can assume that when one mentions "Lady Spenborough" that she is the wife of the present incumbent; if one meant Fanny, one would have to distinguish her as "Fanny, Lady Spenborough." However, contrary to what I had written here before, Lady Spenborough would retain her title (but not her precedence) of Lady Spenborough if she marries a commoner or a lesser-ranking peer.

According to Black, "[i]f marrying into a lower rank of the peerage or with a commoner [a peeress] retains her title. But this [is] by courtesy only, unless she is a peeress in her own right." (55b) Thus Fanny and her husband would be introduced as Lady Spenborough and Mr. Kirkby. Serena, on the other hand, is known as "Lady Serena Carlow" because her father was an earl. If she were to marry Hector, she would be a mere Mrs. Kirkby, but since her own title (Lady Serena) is higher that the title she would derive from her husband (Mrs.), she would get to keep her first courtesy title and thus would be known as "Lady Serena Kirkby." But since Ivo is a peer, she will adopt the courtesy title she is allowed as his wife: Marchioness of Rotherham (her first name would not be used; see the rule above). She will be properly addressed as Lady Rotherham, and (I think) properly announced (at a party or visit) as The Marchioness of Rotheram.

But--- Unlike dukes and duchesses, lower ranks of the peerage are not spoken of as "The Marquess and Marchioness of Rotheram," but as "Lord and Lady Rotheram." According to Black, "[t]here are a few formal occasions on which the full title would be used, but it would never occur in intimate speech. This shibboleth is so often transgressed by novelists and others who love the peerage better than they know its ways that it may seem a little hard to believe how wrong it appears to be among the people who know." (55c) (Of course, this raises as many questions as it answers to an ignorant American like me.) Married Daughters of Peers I'm surprised how many authors make really bad mistakes with details such as titles. For instance, they'll refer to the wife of a peer as "Lady <Firstname> <Surname>," and so on. Why is it so hard to get this stuff right? You'd think if they're going to the bother of setting a book in an earlier period, they could look it up!

This has been bothering me ever since it was posted (on the Heyer Mailing List ) and I've been looking for a coherent answer. I agree with Rosalyn that many writers don't bother to look things up -- read one just recently where a duke was consistently referred to as "Lord X" -- but there are also many instances of wives being correctly referred to as "Lady <Firstname> <Husband'sTitle>." The rule is that a woman who marries a peer takes her courtesy title from her husband. Period. However, if a peer's daughter marries anyone who is not a peer, including commoners, knights, baronets, or any sons of a peer (including his heir who bears a courtesy title), then she may, if she chooses, maintain her own rank as long as it outranks her husband's. When her husband inherits a peerage, however, she must abandon her former title and precedence and she acquires her husband's. (77a) Part of the explanation for this exception can be found in the Order of Precedence , below. This contained, for me, some surprises. Daughters of dukes outrank all ladies except duchesses, marchionesses, and royalty.

Therefore, unless a duke's daughter marries an actual peer or a duke's eldest son, she would be able to maintain the courtesy title derived from her father, and be known as "Lady <Firstname> <Husband'sSurname>" or "Lady <Firstname><Husband'sTitle>" (if he is not an actual peer but has a courtesy title). So, for example, the eldest daughter of the Duke of Devonshire in Regency times, Lady Georgiana Cavendish, married the Earl of Carlisle's eldest son, who was known by the courtesty title Viscount Morpeth. She was known as Lady Georgiana Morpeth until her father-in-law died, at which time she became the Countess of Carlisle. (77b) My understanding is that it would not have been improper, however, to address her as Lady Morpeth, or for her to be announced as the Viscountess Morpeth, but that she was allowed the alternative usage if she preferred it. If her younger sister, Lady Harriet, had remained unmarried at the time Lady Georgiana's father-in-law died and she became the Countess of Carlisle, Lady Harriet would have taken precedence over her sister.

A lady loses her precedence and acquires her husband's if and when he succeeds to any peerage, but as long as her husband is not a peer, she retains her original rank. (77c) So if Lady Harriet were to marry a Mr. Leveson-Gower, she would precede her sister, Georgiana, Countess of Carlisle, into the dining room. But if Lady Georgiana's husband had not yet acceded to his peerage, then she, being elder, would precede Lady Harriet. This is a case where both sisters are married, but neither derive their rank from their husbands, instead still from their father. (This is one of those little quirks of the peerage that gives nuts like me such a kick!) Daughters of dukes and marquesses were allowed this "Lady <Firstname> <Husband'sTitle>" usage if they were married to the heir of an earl or lesser peerage. Daughters of earls were allowed it if they were married to the heir of a viscount or baron. Marriage with a peer replaces her rank with his. Marriage with someone outside the peerage allows her to keep her own rank.

(77d) Another example is Lady Caroline Lamb, who was known that way because, as the daughter of an earl, her rank by birth was higher than the rank she acquired by marrying the eldest surviving son of a viscount (William had an elder brother who died six months before William married Caroline). She is even called "Lady Caroline Lamb" in Debrett's Peerage (she died before William inherited the viscountcy). What is improper is the persistent references in today's novels to " Lady Sally Jersey." I've seen it so often that it almost looks right! Can anyone find a contemporary account referring to Lady Jersey as "Lady Sally Jersey"? I can find no evidence of this sort of usage in contemporary accounts. Does anyone have any original sources to check, like diaries, letters, etc.? As the daughter of an earl, Lady Sally moved up in the Table of Precedence when she married the eldest son of an earl in 1805, and she moved up again the next year when her husband inherited the earldom. For that year, she was known by the courtesy title Lady Villiers (her husband's courtesy title being Viscount Villiers).

Since she was the daughter of an earl and her husband was heir to an earl, she did not have the option of going by "Lady Sarah Villiers." In any event, the option ends upon her husband's accession to his peerage. She could not ever properly be known as "Lady Sally Jersey." A peer and his wife do use the title like a surname. Lady Jersey would never be known as Sally Child-Villiers, but she would sign her name Sally Jersey, and her friends could refer to her in informal conversation as Sally Jersey. However, there is one important caveat here. Books that purport to demonstrate "correct forms of address" are aimed at a specific audience: commoners, i.e., those of us who were not raised "in the system" and haven't married into it. Until a peer's daughter joins the Heyer Mailing List and tells me what's what, I'm leaving this and all other questions open. I have created some charts which may help explain this more clearly. They are on my Correct Forms of Address page.

John Hopfner has kindly provided the following excellent explanation of titles, based upon the Duke of Ware's string of titles in The Foundling, and suggests how a family might acquire them over the years. If you've read even a couple of Heyer's novels you probably have encountered situations like the following, from early in The Foundling, where the character Gilly is described this way: "He was the Most Noble Adolphus Gillespie Vernon Ware, Duke of Sale and Marquis of Ormesby; Earl of Sale; Baron Ware of Thame; Baron Ware of Stoven; and Baron Ware of Rufford..." Why, you might reasonably ask, is Gilly both the Duke of Sale and the Earl of Sale? Is "Duke" another way to refer to an Earl? And what about all those Baron Ware of this, and Baron Ware of that: is "Baron Ware" a title? The way to unscramble this is to realize that Adolphus Gillespie Vernon Ware would be the current head of a family that has been in the nobility for several generations.

More, you can deduce from his string of titles that his family, collectively, has spent far more time than not on the good sides of their various sovereigns. If a family is once ennobled, and subsequent title-holders continue to impress the crown with their valor, their services, their friendship, or sometimes their money, additional titles could be granted to the same family. Ordinarily the crown showed its continued esteem by granting a new title with a rank (degree of precedence) higher than any existing title the incumbent had. Such a new dignity normally was given on top of, not in place of, the earlier titles. It is possible that Gilly's first noble ancestor was, for example, a wealthy member of the gentry, or maybe an exceptionally talented soldier or minister. He might have been, let us say, Sir Adolphus Ware of Rufford, with Rufford being his family's principal seat (principal country residence). The monarch of the time, if wishing to ennoble Sir Adolphus, might have granted him a barony using the same name as that attached to his existing baronetcy (Ware of Rufford, in this example).

As a result, if our Sir Adolphus was a knight or baronet to start with, he still would be a knight or baronet. But his new barony, being a superior dignity, swallows up or overshadows the lesser one. He's now styled Lord Ware of Rufford, and would refer to himself thus from that point forward. (If it helps, think of how academic degrees work today. Suppose someone who already holds a bachelor's degree goes on and earns a master's as well. The person still holds the lesser degree, but normally would use only the higher one in her signature block, and in casual conversation. Noble titles worked in a similar way: if you inherited several titles you referred to yourself only by your highest-ranking one, except on very formal occasions.) Okay, time passes. Maybe this same Lord Ware, or his son or grandson, favorably impresses the sovereign again. The sovereign's in an expansive mood, and decides to give my Lord Ware a formal attaboy. This could be done by raising him one or two notches higher in the peerage.

So, voila: in addition to being the first (or second, or third) Baron Ware of Rufford, this worthy is created the first Earl of Sale by a new grant from the crown. Lord Sale, as he now is, continues to hold the barony of Ware, and for that matter still holds the original baronetcy if his family started out with one, but again a superior dignity (the earldom, in this case) swallows up the lesser ones (the barony and the baronetcy). More time passes, and another royal attaboy is felt appropriate. If the current Lord Sale is an earl, we can give him another leg up by granting him a marquessate. So, if this happens to the 3rd Earl of Sale, he would become the first Marquess of Ormesby, as well as continuing to be the third Earl of Sale, and maybe the fifth or sixth Baron Ware of Rufford. Still more time passes, and pretty much the ultimate royal attaboy--the ducal coronet--comes down the pike.

The same process works again: the current Marquess of Ormesby, in addition to that dignity and all the subordinate ones, gains the title of first Duke of (in this case) Sale. The additional baronies in Gilly's list could represent several possibilities: subsequent creations, or grants to cadet branches of the family which later became the senior line, or older titles conferred by writs of summons that were absorbed into the Ware line through marriage, or possibly grants in the peerages of Great Britain or the United Kingdom, to give a seat in the House of Lords to someone whose existing peerages were Irish or Scottish. Many (if not most) of the non-royal dukedoms and marquessates in the United Kingdom today represent a similar string of peerages that the family accumulated over the years. So Heyer wasn't being grandiose in describing Gilly: his situation wasn't anything out of the ordinary for a duke. On to Rights and Privileges of Peers If you dispute a fact from these pages, please contact me , and if you can, provide a contradicting source.

These pages are a work in progress and I expect them to change in the future, although what I present today is as accurate as I can make it. Nancy Regency Researcher He is never Lord Henry Clearwater. Lord Clearwater Friends would call him, Clearwater People of lower standing: my lord, your lordship Earl, Viscount, Baron same as above The wife of a peer takes his title. A Duke's wife is Duchess; a Marquess's wife is a marchioness, but she is usually called Lady Title. The wife of an earl is a countess , but she is usually called Lady Title; the wife of a viscount is a viscountess and is usually just called Lady Title. The wife of a baron is a baroness but she is never called that except in a few archaic places. While one can speak of the Countess of Jersey or The Marchioness of Angelsey, one does not speak of the baroness Byron unless the lady is a baroness in her own right such as Baroness Wentworth. A peer's surname was his title. He was Devonshire and not Cavendish, the family name.

The children used the family name, he went by the title. A peer's signature was his title .. Wellington, Jersey, Rutland, Norwich. They did not use their surnames. They generally did not introduce themselves as "John Johnson, Earl of Marsh," but as "Marsh." He would sign dispatches, letters and other things with just his title- Marsh. His wife would use his title as a surname and sign as E. Melbourne , or Elizabeth Melbourne. Lady Melbourne even sent a letter or two signed with just a Melbourne as her husband did. I was told that this was correct but most of the examples I have seen have the woman signing with her first name or initial and the title. Do not mix courtesy and peerage titles. If a man is a peer he is never Lord First name anything. Courtesy Titles While there are sometimes two men with similar or almost identical titles, this does not happen within the same family. A father and son would not both be Lord Spencer. Though one of the lesser titles of the Duke of Wellington is that of Marquess of Wellington, the heir uses the title of Marquess Douro.

Marquess, earl, viscount, baron are titles of peerage and also courtesy titles. A Courtesy title is a title which one is granted as a boon from anotheri.e. the father. This does not make the holder a peer. A courtesy marquess can sit in the House of Commons. A duke's eldest son and heir is often a marquess, though he can also be an earl, viscount, or baron. The title given to the heir is a lesser title of the peer, usually the next highest peerage he holds. Some peers hold a dozen titles but only the oldest legitimate son could inherit any and he was only given one as a courtesy title. Sometimes, if the son of a duke was grown and married with a son of his own, the duke would give the grandson a lesser title. The duke's son would be a marquess and the grandson would be an earl. Only eldest sons or their eldest sons could bear courtesy titles. Neither the cousin who is the heir, or the uncle who will succeed if there is no son will have one of the courtesy titles. Such a person would have whatever status and rank he received from his own father or his own efforts.

The eldest son of an earl, marquess, and duke will usually have a courtesy title of baron, viscount, or marquess and will be addressed in the same manner as a peer. Though named lords, these men are not peers. No woman who has never been married and who is not a peeress in her own right is ever Lady Surname or Lady Title. Lady Jersey is either married, widowed, or divorced from Lord Jersey. She is never the daughter of Lord Jersey. The daughters of earls, marquesses, and dukes are Lady Agatha Smith- that is Lady First name Surname. No unmarried woman who does not have a peerage in her own right is ever lady surname or Lady title. The younger sons of Dukes and Marquesses are Lord First Name Surname. Not Lord Surname. Their wives are Lady man's first name family name. Not Lady Family name. The sons are Lord Randall Stuart. Lord Granville Leveson Gower. Lord Peter Wimsey. The wife would be Lady Randall Stuart, Lady Granville Leveson Gower, Lady Peter Wimsey. The daughters of Dukes, marquess and earls were called Lady First name surname.

These are never Lady Surname or Lady Title. They are also never Miss Surname or Miss Title. The Younger sons of earls and all the sons of viscounts and barons are Mr. or, in reality, The Hon. Arthur Wellesley. In practical every day speech, just Mr. Wellesley. As Armiger put it in the 1918 Titles: A Guide to the Right Use of British Titles and Honours "It cannot be too firmly stated that the word "honourable" is never used in speech." (Except when referring to " the honourable member")The word honourable is only used in addressing envelopes and in formal court announcements. A plain Jane Smith never becomes Lady Jane by marriage. Miss Brown the daughter of a baron does not become Lady Mary by marrying an earl but becomes Lady Title. The daughter of a peer who marries a peer becomes Lady Title. If she is the daughter of an earl, viscount or baron and marries the younger son of a duke or marquess, she becomes Lady Hisfirstname Surname.

If she is the daughter of a duke and marries the younger son of a duke or marquess she may call her self Lady hisfirstname Surname or her own Lady Firstname with his surname. This is because they are of the same rank. Frankly, in the interest of simplicity I would have the woman take her husband's style. The daughter of a Duke, marquess, or Earl who is entitled to be Lady Mary surname who marries a baronet or a knight just changes the surname. Addressing Others While a man in the clergy is listed as the Rev. Mr. Jones, he is not addressed as Reverend in England. He is Mr. Doctor, Vicar, or Rector. One might address him as ï¿½"vicar" but not "reverend." The Archbishops of York and Canterbury are members of the House of Lords They are referred to as the Archbishop of Canterbury or York and not by name in much the same way as the Duke of Devonshire is called the Duke of Devonshire. One difference is that the Archbishops sign papers in Latin . They are addressed as Dukes in that all say "Your Grace." My Lord Archbishop, or Your Grace on letters.

However, their wives are plain Mrs.Family Surname, unless the archbishop or she have personal (called temporal) titles. The children follow the rules for ordinary non titled persons. All bishops are Lord Bishop though only twenty-four are among the Lords Spiritual in the House of Lords. A bishop is addressed as Your lordship or My Lord. His precedence, if one of the spiritual lords, is between barons and viscounts. A wife is Mrs. Unless she or her husband also have a temporal title. That is if she is the daughter of an Earl she will be Lady Elizabeth her husband's family name. One man was both an earl and a bishop and not worthy of either position. Arch deacons are addressed as Archdeacon or Sir. On letters they are the Venerable. A member of the clergy whether a rector or Vicar is addressed as such without a name. With a name it is Mr. Surname. That is one can say , "Vicar, when is the confirmation class," when speaking to the man, but would not say he is Vicar Jones. He is the Revd,. A.C. Jones on envelopes.

One does not call a man Reverend as is often done in the USA, but one addresses him in a letter as Reverend Sir, or just sir. In Jane Austen's works the doctors were clergymen. Dr. Grant and such. The medical personnel were all called Mr. whether apothecaries, physicians or surgeons. Names in General People were more formal in the way they addressed each other. We do not read of husbands and wives calling each other by their first names in either letters, or novels. The daughters of peers called their eldest brothers by his title instead of by name even when writing to other siblings. Lady Sarah Spencer called her eldest brother Althorp when writing to another brother who was in the navy. The daughters of the Duke of Devonshire called their brother Hartington or Hart instead of by his first name. They referred to him by his title in all correspondence. Men in the army and navy had were addressed first by the military or naval rank and then by the title. Admiral Lord Collingwood, or Colonel Lord Paget. In an ordinary household, the oldest daughter was Miss Surname: Miss Bennet. The oldest son is Mr. Bertram.

The second and other daughters were Miss First Name Surname :Miss Elizabeth Bennet, Miss Lydia Bennet. The same was true of younger brothers. Mr. Edmund Bertram had an older brother Tom who was Mr. Bertram. If Miss Elizabeth Bennet was away from home, she would be called Miss Bennet. Any mail addressed to Miss Bennet would go to Jane, just as any mail addressed to Mr. Bertram at Mansfield Park would go to Tom Bertram and not Edmund. While a younger sister could move up to be Miss Bennet when the older one married, a younger brother did not become Mr. Bertram unless his older brother died. According to Titles, a Guide to the right use of British Titles & Honours, (London,1918) One never speaks of the Marquess or the Earl but always of Lord So and So. One can call the duke , Duke or The Duke, but one doesn't usually call the others by their ranks. Barons are never called such.

"Although it would be right to talk about '"the Duke, or Duchess of Middlesex" and they would not, indeed, be referred to in any other way, nobody "who knows" would talk about the "Marquess, or Marchioness of Montgomeryshire," They would be called "Lord and Lady Montgomeryshire." Still less would they be referred to as "The Marquess or the Marchioness." There would be occasions on which the full title would be used, but it would never be done in intimate speech. "The Marquess" and "the Earl;" are so very often used by popular novelists, who love the Peerage better than they know its ways, that it may be difficult to believe that they are showing ignorance when they wish to show intimacy. It is only wrong, of course, in that it is never done by people of title themselves, or by those who mix with them. It is a shibboleth.

Anyone who spoke habitually of "the Marquis of Montgomeryshire" or "The Countess of Malvern," instead of saying "Lord Montgomeryshire" or "Lady Malvern." would show plainly that he had small knowledge of the matters in which he is now being instructed, and would be put down as an outsider, just as much as if he were to speak of Lady John Smith as "Lady Smith."'

Question: What is the correct verbal title used when addressing a Baron?
Answer: """MY LORD"""