Best British Middleweights - BoxRec Best British Middleweights Quote Post by Arsenal » 16 Mar 2006, 08:50 After reading a few posts recently and watching a few old fights I thought I would get other people's views. Lets not make it difficult rate middle, super and light middlewieghts as one. I know some may have been better at the lighter or heavier weights but lets just rate them as a whole. Before Minter/Sibson/Finnegan era I'm not an expert so some of the older guys and the ones who know their history can let us know about the scene back then. I know we had some good fighters who never got a World title shot, but were good all the same. I think this is one of the best weights for us Brits. Maybe its a natural weight for our population. Rate your top 10. Some of the guys in there may be Benn, Watson, Eubank, Calzaghe, Reid, Woodhall, Downes, Minter, Sibson, Finnegan, Graham, Sterling, Turpin, Pyatt, Eastman. 7 = Chris Eubank & Michael Watson 9. Alan Minter 10.

Terry Downes I didnt rate Joe Calzaghe as he didnt make middleweight in his peak. I counted Bob Fitz as a Brit, and I'd rank him in the top 10 middles of all time of all nationalities. Could rank Len Harvey and Jock McAvoy as light heavies but they also had considerable success at middleweight. I found it difficult to split Harvey & Benn because of the different eras, but Harvey has got to be one of Britains top 10 lb 4 lb fighters. Difficult also to split Eubank and Watson as both their fights were so close, i thought Watson was getting the better of both fights until the end of the second fight. Honourable mentions also to Tony Sibson, Kevin Finnegan, and Howard Eastman. Quote Post by Arsenal » 17 Mar 2006, 03:34 I loved Benn and when you wrote him off; McClellen and Barkley he answered the critics. I know about the weight differences but as i said before just rate them as one. For me Benn is number 1, if only he had a better chin, that was his only fault.

I think he became better with age when he boxed rather than trying to KO everyone. I rate Calzaghe so highly, before the Lacy fight, and would have him right up there. Eubank didn't get the credit he deserved but also had one or two dubious decisions. I don't know about Minter another vunerable to being stopped. I think Herol Graham had the most talent but always failed at the final hurdle. I think Watson would have been a great fighter but the McCallum fight set him back a few years and obviously the Eubank defeat ended he career prematurly but his defeat of Benn was an excellent tactical fight. Mine would be based on what I've seen and read, on what they achieved but mainly who would beat who: 1. Benn Quote Post by jimglen » 18 Mar 2006, 06:30 Such a "Subjective" thing, not enough people (myself included) know ALL the Facts...

younger fans go with what the TV has put before them in the last 30 years, older fans are usually "Stuck" on achievements (world titles), Historians can pull a few more worthy fighters into the mix - but still achievement based... "there really are DOZENS of men they Should/HAVE to considered! Here is Historian, the great Gilbert Odd's list: Britain's Top 10 'middleweights' according to Gilbert Odd, (arguable)! 1 Randolph Turpin; 2. Jock McAvoy; 3. Len Harvey; 4. Ted 'Kid' Lewis; 5. Terry Downes; 6. Tommy Milligan; 7. Ernie Roderick; 8. Roland Todd; 9. Pat McAteer;10. Johnny Sullivan.. Considerations...

Len Harvey was a L-HW and Britains best at that weight, Ted 'Kid' Lewis was a Welterweight and probably Britains best at the weight, likewise Ernie Roderick was a Welterweight and probably in the top 3 at that weight, Randolph Turpin was NOT better than Jock McAvoy - "hands down" and you have to include such fighters like Tommy Milligan, Jack Casey, Len Johnson (some would say Tops), Bert Gilroy, Ginger Sadd, Dick Turpin and tough guy Harry Scot... There are a few lads who could put an "objective" list together (maybe Kev and Barry and KOJOE), say of the top 15 maybe 25, considering ALL the Facts... but based on my reasearch I am confident in the Top 3, Jock McAvoy, Bert Gilroy, Len Johnson after that there can be and will be moving around, but I would say Milligan, Casey and Ginger Sadd would rate higher than most of the MW's of the last 40 years... One man's educated/researched opinion.

Post by KOJOE90 » 18 Mar 2006, 09:23 Maybe not quite top ten material but I think Harry Scott at least deserves a mention. I have to admit I always find top tens very, very difficult to put together as there are so many variables to consider. I've done a few off the top of my head from time to time on this and other forums but as soon as I post them I often want to change them. I really need to sit down one day and give them some serious thought, keep them on my hard drive so I can easily 'fine tune' them as time goes by I am also of the strong belief that there are two very different types of top tens. (1) Based strictly on the fighters achievments. (2) A head to head league table as in if all fighters in their primes could meet and fight each other who would get the most wins etc. BRITAINS ALL TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT TOP TEN!!!!!!!.......... - BoxRec BRITAINS ALL TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT TOP TEN!!!!!!!.......... 23 posts • Page 1 of 1 who was the best???

Post by silkov » 15 Oct 2007, 11:11 Here is my top ten of Britains greatest middles.... measured by ability and overall careers... 1. Bob Fitzsimmons Quote Post by jimglen » 15 Oct 2007, 13:44 it's IMMPOSSIBLE to say with All Certainty, there are just too many factors both considered and Not considered. Over at the CBZ there was an argument about SRR being the best p4p fighter ever...good candidate but IMMPOSSIBLE to say. here are Gilbert Odds top 10 British MW's 1 Randolph Turpin; 2. Jock McAvoy; 3. Len Harvey; 4. Ted 'Kid' Lewis; 5. Terry Downes; 6. Tommy Milligan; 7. Ernie Roderick; 8. Roland Todd; 9. Pat McAteer;10. Johnny Sullivan.. Considerations...

Len Harvey was a L-HW and Britains best at that weight, Ted 'Kid' Lewis was a Welterweight and Britains best at the weight, likewise Ernie Roderick was a Welterweight and probably in the top 3 at that weight. Randolph Turpin was NOT better than Jock McAvoy - "No Way" and you have to include such fighters like Jack Casey, Len Johnson (some would say Tops), Bert Gilroy, Ginger Sadd, Dick Turpin and tough guy Harry Scot... then there's the modern bunch Benn, Watson and company. I've always said Don't single achievements, look at 'head to head' battles (which you are doing here silkov), with the Best Champions & Contenders who remained at the Top for extended periods and proved their worth, jumping in & out of weight divisions successfully...these are the best. But to say with All Certainty, very, very Hard! Post by silkov » 15 Oct 2007, 14:54 jimglen wrote: it's IMMPOSSIBLE to say with All Certainty, there are just too many factors both considered and Not considered.

Over at the CBZ there was an argument about SRR being the best p4p fighter ever...good candidate but IMMPOSSIBLE to say. here are Gilbert Odds top 10 British MW's 1 Randolph Turpin; 2. Jock McAvoy; 3. Len Harvey; 4. Ted 'Kid' Lewis; 5. Terry Downes; 6. Tommy Milligan; 7. Ernie Roderick; 8. Roland Todd; 9. Pat McAteer;10. Johnny Sullivan.. Considerations... Len Harvey was a L-HW and Britains best at that weight, Ted 'Kid' Lewis was a Welterweight and Britains best at the weight, likewise Ernie Roderick was a Welterweight and probably in the top 3 at that weight. Randolph Turpin was NOT better than Jock McAvoy - "No Way" and you have to include such fighters like Jack Casey, Len Johnson (some would say Tops), Bert Gilroy, Ginger Sadd, Dick Turpin and tough guy Harry Scot... then there's the modern bunch Benn, Watson and company.

I've always said Don't single achievements, look at 'head to head' battles (which you are doing here silkov), with the Best Champions & Contenders who remained at the Top for extended periods and proved their worth, jumping in & out of weight divisions successfully...these are the best. But to say with All Certainty, very, very Hard! It is very hard, especially with Turpin as his peak was very short, we only saw him really at his best in the first Robinson fight, would any of the others have been able to beat even the below par Robinson that Turpin beat?..... and Turpin wasnt actually doing that bad in their rematch till he was caught.... 10. Alan Minter ................any comments opinions and insults very welcome!.... Silkov, congratulations on a superb list. I think these are the top 10 MWs,of all time from Britain. The only points I'd make are that Eubank is a bit high for me, I would have him at 8 or 9. Also, I'm not sure if Calzaghe should be rated at MW as all his best work was done at SM.

Terry Downes, Howard Eastman, Tony Sibson and Kevin Finnegan are all worth honourable mentions as well in the pantheon of British middleweights I put Calzaghe in as I think he would have been a middleweight had there been no super middle division... Downes, Sibbo and Finnegan all just missed out on the top ten though theyre amongst my favourites.... theres not really that much to choose between a lot of these guys.... Quote Post by jimglen » 16 Oct 2007, 16:46 Bert was No.1 and for 10 yrs and as this post is about great MW fighters regardless of Title, then of course these men need consideration! Len Johnson would have made an easy night of it with some of the latter fighters mentioned, yet people are too comfortable 'skipping' over some of these past greats simply because they know little or nothing about them...

Well I have tried to be a voice for some of these men and by the grace of God got one of them the recognition that was STOLEN from him and as I've said before 'conspiracy;' too strong a word, conspiracy in this game isn't required by the men who run the sport, just a very deliberate decision determining who gets to play or not. These fighters were great and could compete with any fellow top MW's in history, sorry you would rather make light than learn about them...Who are you anyway Bladder, have you read the man's story and all the top commentators that spoke about him? God Bless these fighters who knew well who they were and the fans and 'documentors that knew also! Britain's greatest..? NOT complete without some of these men! silkov wrote: Yep, and you've probably never even seen Bugner fight either!.... Like pretty much everyone in this forum, I'm addicted to Youtube. It's the Boxrec of the last half of this decade. Of course I've seen Bugner fight, but you have inspired me to watch more, and I thank you for that.

Ranking him based on his record and a couple of fights with Ali might not have been the best, but after watching all the other footage I could find, I still can see NO REASON to rank him above Lewis, even though I've gained a greater appreciation for Bugner. I will concede that our difference in opinion comes from the way we rank fighters. To you, the outcome or even the deserved outcome of a fight bears little or no weight in how you rank fighters, and I simply cannot agree with that. Here is the conclusion I've made: Bugner lost to most of the top heavyweights he fought. Lewis beat every fighter he fought. I simply can't understand how you can ignore this. Judging by your comments you have absolutely no idea how I rate fighters and I'm afraid I havent really the time or inclination to enlighten you... as for Lewis winning every fight he was in I think you're leaving out the two times he was koed by mediocre fighters!.... silkov wrote: Yep, and you've probably never even seen Bugner fight either!.... Like pretty much everyone in this forum, I'm addicted to Youtube. It's the Boxrec of the last half of this decade.

Of course I've seen Bugner fight, but you have inspired me to watch more, and I thank you for that. Ranking him based on his record and a couple of fights with Ali might not have been the best, but after watching all the other footage I could find, I still can see NO REASON to rank him above Lewis, even though I've gained a greater appreciation for Bugner. I will concede that our difference in opinion comes from the way we rank fighters. To you, the outcome or even the deserved outcome of a fight bears little or no weight in how you rank fighters, and I simply cannot agree with that. Here is the conclusion I've made: Bugner lost to most of the top heavyweights he fought. Lewis beat every fighter he fought. I simply can't understand how you can ignore this. Judging by your comments you have absolutely no idea how I rate fighters and I'm afraid I havent really the time or inclination to enlighten you... as for Lewis winning every fight he was in I think you're leaving out the two times he was koed by mediocre fighters!.... You do realise this post was about the middleweight division not the heavyweights?

Anyhow Lewis was a world champion with 15 title defences (only Louis and Holmes above him). He avenged both defeats by stoppage and beat every fighter there was to beat (apart from Bowe who wanted no part of him). Bugner, was a good fighter but just doesn't compare to Lewis's achievements. You say Lewis was ko'ed by medioce fighters, what about Bugner being ko'ed in his pro debut by a fighter with a 1-3 record who went on to lose every other fight he ever had? If I asked you to name the top 10 or 20 heavyweights of all time you can't honestly say you would have Bugner ahead of Lewis, that just doesn't make sense !! silkov wrote: Yep, and you've probably never even seen Bugner fight either!.... Like pretty much everyone in this forum, I'm addicted to Youtube. It's the Boxrec of the last half of this decade. Of course I've seen Bugner fight, but you have inspired me to watch more, and I thank you for that.

Ranking him based on his record and a couple of fights with Ali might not have been the best, but after watching all the other footage I could find, I still can see NO REASON to rank him above Lewis, even though I've gained a greater appreciation for Bugner. I will concede that our difference in opinion comes from the way we rank fighters. To you, the outcome or even the deserved outcome of a fight bears little or no weight in how you rank fighters, and I simply cannot agree with that. Here is the conclusion I've made: Bugner lost to most of the top heavyweights he fought. Lewis beat every fighter he fought. I simply can't understand how you can ignore this. Judging by your comments you have absolutely no idea how I rate fighters and I'm afraid I havent really the time or inclination to enlighten you... as for Lewis winning every fight he was in I think you're leaving out the two times he was koed by mediocre fighters!.... You do realise this post was about the middleweight division not the heavyweights? Anyhow Lewis was a world champion with 15 title defences (only Louis and Holmes above him).

He avenged both defeats by stoppage and beat every fighter there was to beat (apart from Bowe who wanted no part of him). Bugner, was a good fighter but just doesn't compare to Lewis's achievements. You say Lewis was ko'ed by medioce fighters, what about Bugner being ko'ed in his pro debut by a fighter with a 1-3 record who went on to lose every other fight he ever had? If I asked you to name the top 10 or 20 heavyweights of all time you can't honestly say you would have Bugner ahead of Lewis, that just doesn't make sense !! Henry Armstrong was koed in his debut also, I suppose he sucked as well!!. If you cant see the difference between someone being koed when theyre just a kid of 18 and someone being koed twice when theyre supposedly at their peak, then I dont think theres much hope for you I'm afraid!!..... silkov wrote: Yep, and you've probably never even seen Bugner fight either!.... Like pretty much everyone in this forum, I'm addicted to Youtube. It's the Boxrec of the last half of this decade.

Of course I've seen Bugner fight, but you have inspired me to watch more, and I thank you for that. Ranking him based on his record and a couple of fights with Ali might not have been the best, but after watching all the other footage I could find, I still can see NO REASON to rank him above Lewis, even though I've gained a greater appreciation for Bugner. I will concede that our difference in opinion comes from the way we rank fighters. To you, the outcome or even the deserved outcome of a fight bears little or no weight in how you rank fighters, and I simply cannot agree with that. Here is the conclusion I've made: Bugner lost to most of the top heavyweights he fought. Lewis beat every fighter he fought. I simply can't understand how you can ignore this. Judging by your comments you have absolutely no idea how I rate fighters and I'm afraid I havent really the time or inclination to enlighten you... as for Lewis winning every fight he was in I think you're leaving out the two times he was koed by mediocre fighters!.... You do realise this post was about the middleweight division not the heavyweights?

Anyhow Lewis was a world champion with 15 title defences (only Louis and Holmes above him). He avenged both defeats by stoppage and beat every fighter there was to beat (apart from Bowe who wanted no part of him). Bugner, was a good fighter but just doesn't compare to Lewis's achievements. You say Lewis was ko'ed by medioce fighters, what about Bugner being ko'ed in his pro debut by a fighter with a 1-3 record who went on to lose every other fight he ever had? If I asked you to name the top 10 or 20 heavyweights of all time you can't honestly say you would have Bugner ahead of Lewis, that just doesn't make sense !! And its just like Dec to answer the heavyweight thread in the middleweight thread!.... from now on I'll only be discussing the heavies in the heavy thread!!..... hope thats clear for you Dec!.... 10. Alan Minter ................any comments opinions and insults very welcome!.... Why do you have Watson rated above Calzaghe? Yes Watson was a good fighter but the only fighter of note that he beat was Nigel Benn.

He was stopped by McCallum, lost a close decision to Eubank and was tragically stopped in the rematch. Plus he only ever won the Commonwealth title. His record doesn't come close to matching Calzaghe's ? I'd be interested to hear why you rank Watson over Calzaghe?[/quote I think Watson was the better all round boxer, had they fought I think Watson would have won... as for holding Mccallums victory over Watson against him, Calzaghes never fought anyone as good as Mccallum.... I doubt very much that he would have beaten Mccallum... 10. Alan Minter ................any comments opinions and insults very welcome!.... Why do you have Watson rated above Calzaghe? Yes Watson was a good fighter but the only fighter of note that he beat was Nigel Benn. He was stopped by McCallum, lost a close decision to Eubank and was tragically stopped in the rematch. Plus he only ever won the Commonwealth title. His record doesn't come close to matching Calzaghe's ? I'd be interested to hear why you rank Watson over Calzaghe?[/quote I think Watson was the better all round boxer, had they fought I think Watson would have won...

as for holding Mccallums victory over Watson against him, Calzaghes never fought anyone as good as Mccallum.... I doubt very much that he would have beaten Mccallum... I'm still confused. You said at the start of this thread you are rating fighters on their ability and overall careers. Watson was a good fighter but at the end of the day he was still stopped by McCallum after being behind on all cards. He was also outpointed then tragically stopped by Eubank. He was also outpointed by James Cook, who was on a 4 fight losing streak, early in Watsons career. Watson never won a British or European title, let alone a World title. The only 'name' Watson beat was Benn, who was partly to blame for his defeat by non-stop punching and wearing himself out, hence being ko'ed by a Watson jab. Credit where its due though because Watson fought a perfect fight. If your rankings include fighters 'overall careers' Calzaghe surely wins hands down. Last edited by Controversial on 19 Oct 2007, 05:54, edited 1 time in total. The Top Man in British Boxing.

| The Coleshill Post Home / Uncategorized / The Top Man in British Boxing. The Top Man in British Boxing. Online Editor June 9, 2014 Uncategorized Leave a comment 1,513 Views I was used to ‘boxing talk’ in the household, with Joe Louis, Tommy Farr, Freddie Mills, Len Harvey, etc, being on the agenda and there would always be excitement in the air when the usual crew turned up to set off to some sporting event, usually boxing or football. On one occasion, my uncles Joey, Teddy, Walter and Bernard arrived carrying small cases that meant they were staying overnight somewhere, leaving my mother noticeably quiet and subdued as she never liked dad staying out all night. This time, however, it turned into two nights, but that is another story. The conversation was intense in anticipation of the forthcoming event that they were travelling to London to attend – one of the biggest boxing tournaments ever to take place in Great Britain at that time – the middleweight championship of the world between the great Sugar Ray Robinson and local favorite Randolph Turpin. Randolph was to win this first encounter. All this and more had wet my appetite for the fabulous sport of boxing.

Some 18 months later, in 1953, my father took me to see the man that I had heard so much about. I was two months short of my ninth birthday and was not prepared for what I was about to witness in the Embassy Sportsdrome, Birmingham on that cold January night. The first thing to hit me was the thick cloud of smoke that made my eyes water the whole evening. Everywhere I looked men were puffing on some form of tobacco. I had to wait around with my glass of lemonade while the men had a drink at the bar, but I enjoyed listening to the banter. When we took our seats I realised that I could not see so dad took off his crombie and folded it up so I could sit on it and view the boxing that was taking place. There were not too many televisions around at that time so I had no previous perception of what I was about to witness. Then, suddenly, there was a noticeable increase in the excitement of the onlookers as the main event was about to take place. When Turpin was announced my ears hurt with the applause of this packed house, the atmosphere being electric. Turpin stopped his opponent in six rounds to the delight of the crowd.

It was then that the greatest thing happened to me. My father had boxing friends and I was escorted to the dressing room of this great British middleweight. Randolph sat me on his lap and signed my programme ‘To My Best Pal Charlie from Champ Randolph Turpin’. What more could a young fan wish for. All of this is to explain my initiation into the sport that has dominated my life and had me hooked from that night on. Whilst still at school I travelled on my own to shows and aged 17 years, having acquired a driving licence, I was able to travel all over the country, sometimes to the big tournaments. It was not long before I was on the mailing list of Jack Solomons, Harry Levene, Mickey Duff, Alex Griffiths and others. Since those days I have attended more than 3000 shows, including many championship contests. It was in 1984, having reached the ripe old age of 40, that I was invited to represent the Midlands Area of the British Boxing Board of Control at the Board’s headquarters at Vauxhall Bridge Road in London. I was flattered and felt privileged to be asked to hold such a position in the governing body of my chosen sport.

Never would I have guessed that 20 years later I would become the Chairman of the Board, with such eminent people around the table. A lot is owed to the great contributions made by all the previous custodians be it Chairmen, Stewards, General Secretaries and others who have built the reputation that the BBBof C enjoys today. Like me, most Stewards of the Board have some life-long connection with the sport and they are able to bring the benefit of their vast experience to the table for the interests of the boxers, the licenceholders, and the sport of professional boxing in general. Indeed, some Stewards are involved on a daily basis in their regional areas, giving much of their time for the love of the sport. Each decade has had its outstanding British boxers. The ‘60s had a competitive domestic heavyweight scene, with Henry Cooper, Brian London, Joe Erskine, Dick Richardson, Billy Walker, Johnny Prescott and Jack Bodell, boxing each other. I was there for Muhammad Ali v Cooper and Ali v London.

It was in 1964, at the Terry Downes v Willie Pastrano world light-heavyweight title fight in Manchester, that I had the pleasure of first meeting Harry Carpenter, the ‘Voice” of Boxing’ at that time. The ‘70s saw me in America for the first time, at Madison Square Garden for the Ali v Joe Frazier world heavyweight title in 1971, and just one week later I was at Wembley for the Cooper v Joe Bugner fight. Then it was back to the States again in 1973 to see Bugner challenge Ali. On the undercard at the Hilton, Las Vegas were two of Britain’s best, John Conteh and John H. Stracey, who both won. The ‘80s saw me back in Las Vegas when Alan Minter took the world title from Vito Antuofermo. Alan then successfully defended the title against Antuofermo before losing it on that memorable occasion at Wembley against the great Marvin Hagler. Next came popular big Frank Bruno in big encounters with the likes of Tim Witherspoon and the great Mike Tyson, with Jim Watt and Charlie Magri picking up titles during the period.

In the ‘90s I witnessed those two epic battles between Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn, and later Richie Woodhall won the prized WBC green belt. During this time, Lennox Lewis proved himself to be arguably the best British heavyweight of all time. More successes followed, with outstanding champions such as Prince Naseem Hamed, Carl Froch, super champs Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton, and many others too numerous to mention. Listen, I could write a book about my experiences in boxing. However, I hope this has given you an insight into some of my personal involvement and also the support that I currently receive from the Board members and the excellent working relationship I enjoy with the current General Secretary, Robert Smith, in jointly carrying out the necessary duties of the British Boxing Board of Control. Boxing has always had its gloomy predictions for the future and the last few decades have been no exception. Television is not immune to the ravages of the current credit crunch and the budget has been affected, but time shows that these situations do not last for ever.

The British Isles has always managed to produce a steady stream of world-class fighters, competing and often winning the honours, and I believe that we will continue to be as successful in the future with the help of our licensed promotors, managers and trainers. I look forward to a promising future for our beloved sport of Boxing. By Charles Giles (Chairman, British Boxing Board of Control) Share this: Svelte Saunders now looking as good a bet as pal Fury Svelte Saunders now looking as good a bet as pal Fury Posted on: 06 Dec 2015 ALAN HUBBARD’S PUNCHLINES – 6.12.15 The more I see and hear about Billy Joe Saunders , now finalising his training in Marbella for his December 19 WBO world title challenge against champion Andy Lee the more I am beginning to strongly fancy his chances. Billy Joe has always talked a good fight – he is up there with the best of them when it comes to the chirpy chat – but more importantly he is looking in tremendous nick. In recent pictures I have seen he seems almost as svelte as a welterweight after sweating off the pounds piled on during two postponements.

He will have been heartened, too, by his pal Tyson Fury’s great victory in Dusseldorf, especially as he correctly predicted the manner of it and relieves the bookies of some twenty grand in the process. He is also one of the most open and down-to-earth fighters I have encountered. He recalled in Punchlines a few months back how he still sheds the occasional tear over failing to win an Olympic medal in 2008, and more recently spoke of how he always posed something of a dilemma for the national selectors during his amateur days. They didn’t much want the hyper-active Billy Joe around the national set-up, probably fearing he was a disruptive influence on away trips with the honour of the England or GB vest at stake. Trouble was for the selectors, the young Travelling man from Hatfield didn’t give them much choice in the end – he just kept on winning and could be ignored no more. “I nearly gave up boxing myself as an amateur,” he admits, confessing he was “a bit of a handful” in his youth. “I a bit of a tearaway “I was doing well as an amateur but I couldn’t get to the England team, as I was into mischief too much.

I was a liability to take away and was always getting into trouble! “When I started beating everybody they had no choice. I started winning gold after gold and went on a 49-fight unbeaten streak as a senior, then I got my chance. “I was very hyper-active. I still am now to be honest.”” In TV interviews, Billy-Joe often teases with tales of gypsy fights and bare-knuckle battle for bets, but admits is not something of which he has personal experience. He does, however, recall a time when he did punch above his weight to settle a score with a current 7-3 heavyweight from Hatfield. “No I haven’t, not for money, but it does happen,” he said of the bare-knuckle brawling. “I’ve settled a few differences, the last one I had was when I was about 17 with Tom Little when we had a straightener outside that went on for about ten minutes.

We shook hands after and we’re good friends now.” Coming from such strong fighting stock, it is perhaps surprising that Andy Lee was the first world champion from a Travelling background – now, of course, joined by Tyson Fury – while the Manchester Xmas Cracker card on December 19 will witness the first world title contested by two Travellers. Billy Joe has his own theory and it seemingly has much to do with the right of passage that is the passing of your driving test. “It is about discipline and when young Travelling boys pass their test they can get money like there is no tomorrow. Their goal is big places, new cars, but what they don’t realise is while they might have money and get a new car, the bigger goal is to take your time and get your houses, property – then you can have what you want. “There are a hell of a lot of rich Travellers and good luck to them but, through the boxing, it is too long and people don’t look how far they’ve come and look how far they’ve got to go. “They get married, go out, have kids and before they know it they are fat as a bull and can’t be bothered to box again.

You only get a small minority that stick to it.” Fortunately Billy Joe did – and I suspect he is about to reap his reward. *** Who were the best middleweights? With my esteemed colleague and long-time friend Colin Hart, of The Sun, I spent a happy afternoon in the BoxNation studio last week debating the wonderful world of middleweights. Who really were the best at 160lb, arguably the most prolific and productive of all weight divisions, in post- war years? The argument wasn’t easily settled and fans can make up their own minds when watching Boxing Matters tomorrow night (7pm). Colin and I did agree on one thing – that the cold, cunning Argentinean Carlos Monzon should be numero uno on both our lists, yes above even Sugar Ray Robinson. What a fighter Monzon was – a monster in the ring and out as I have previously described him. We kicked around some legendary names: Robinson, Marvin Hagler, Dick Tiger, and Bernard Hopkins featured on both cards, as did Gennady Golovkin who we deemed good enough to mix it with some of the giants from the past, including Jake La Motta, Tony Zale and Rocky Graziano, and maybe even beat a couple of them.

I insisted on including the fabulous Frenchman Marcel Cerdan at number ten while Colin plumped for Randolph Turpin by virtue of his sensational 1951 win over Sugar Ray at Earls Court, almost as big an upset as that pulled off by Fury. We also discussed the best of British and Irish middleweights, with Turpin, course, Terry Downes, Alan Minter, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank and Steve Collins the logical choices. No doubt you may beg to differ, so tune in and see what you think. ****************************** When Rockys were for real With Sylvester Stallone ’s latest celluloid offering ‘Creed’ , a sort of Son of Rocky – or rather his first opponent – now released in the US and due here next month, it seems timely to take a look at a remarkable tome which reveals all about the real Rockys: the Italian-American fighters and their achievements. Author Rolando Vitale, who lives in Hertfordshire, has painstakingly complied what is tantamount to a Ring Record Book of those in boxing those whose names usually end in a vowel and have been so dominant and influential on the fistic scene since men first pulled on the gloves.

Never mind Rocky Balboa, the real Rockys were Marciano, Graziano and their ilk. Here you will find not only records and diligently researched details of their lives away from the ring, but an absorbing collection of essays, anecdotes and a historical mountain of information about golden age in which they fought. There are also references to some Brits of Italian descent like the late Dennie Mancini, and managers, trainers and referees and referees such as Angelo Dundee and Arthir Mercante. I have to be honest it`is not everyone’s glass of Chianti. You have to be a well-seasoned aficionado to plough through the book’s 430 pages; but it is a worthwhile journey. The Real Rockys is published by RV at £19.99. ***************************** Such sweet charity from Dave Dave Field, who died last year, was for many years an outstanding boxing correspondent of the Press Association, and a secretary of the Boxing Writers’ Club. He always covered the sport with fairness and authority.

He was genuinely passionate about boxing, so much so that in his will he has left over £8,000 to the British Boxing Board of Control’s benevolent fund which helps out boxers who have fallen on hard times. “It is the largest single donation we have ever had, a wonderful gesture” says Board general secretary Robert Smith. We heartily agree. FIGHTING TALK Thank f*** for that! What Karron Stephen-Martin, Chris Eubanks ex-wife, said she replied when he claimed she would never meet another man like him after their divorce. ******************* Boxing’s night of nostalgia has special memories for Bobby Neill Boxing’s night of nostalgia has special memories for Bobby Posted on: 03 Oct 2015 HUBBARD’S CUPBOARD – 03.10.15 By Alan Hubbard It is boxing’s best bash of the year. The annual dinner of the Boxing writers’ Club looms again on Monday week. A night when the good, the bad and the pug-ugly of the fight game cram into London’s Savoy Hotel to eat, drink and reminisce, with never a punch thrown in anger.

Rather, arms are thrown around each other and with so much hugging you expect to hear a referee shout “Break!” A night of nosh and nostalgia said to be unrivalled by any other sporting do of its kind. Champions, ex-champions, contenders, journeymen and wannabes plus old timers who once knocked bits off each other in ring combat embrace like long-lost brothers, often bringing tears not only to their own eyes but those of us who stand to applaud them as they are introduced. A typical example is that of former welterweight warriors John H Stracey and Dave ’Boy’ Green, who battled ferociously at Wembley 38 years ago but now sit alongside each other on the same table every year swapping memories rather than left hooks. It used to be a men only affair, a boys’ night out, but times have changed rightly so in my view, with women playing an increasing role in the sport. This year Tracey Crouch, MP, will become the second female sports minister to attend.

She is among my guests who also include the woman who is something of a suffragette of sock, the former GB women’s team captain Lucy O’Connor, a pioneer of her sport, paving the pugilistic path for the likes of the first-ever female Olympic boxing champion Nicola Adams. The daughter-in-law of Star Class referee Terry O’Connor she was five times national champion and the first British woman to win a European title. The Royal Navy officer is a well-informed boxing analyst for TV and with husband Stuart runs a newly-refurbished boxing club in Southampton. But pride of place on my guest list will go, as it has for more years than either of us care to remember, to the former British featherweight champion Bobby Neill, the man who inspired me to carve out a career in boxing writing. I was a cub sports reporter on a newspaper in South London when I was sent to cover my first pro tournament at Streatham Ice Rink in July 1958. Topping the bill was Edinburgh’s Bobby Neill, fighting a Belgian named Aime Devisch whom he despatched in six rounds with a sharply-delivered left hook that had become one of the most powerful pieces of armoury in the featherweight division.

I interviewed him afterwards as he was living locally, and we struck up a friendship that has endured for over half a century. He came to my wedding and I to his though tragically his lovely first wife Laurie, a professional dancer, was to die in Bobby’s arms from a brain haemorrhage while in her forties. A year after he beat Devisch, Neill went on to become the British featherweight champion, dropping a fellow Scot, Cambuslang’s Charlie Hill, to the canvas ten times en route to stopping him in round nine in Nottingham. He has a special affinity with the Boxing Writers’ dinner as he was one of the early recipient’s of the Club’s Best Young Boxer Award – which this year goes to another featherweight, Mitchell Smith – back in 1956. Some 23 of those award winners went on to become world champions, including Randolph Turpin, Terry Downes, Naseem Hamed, Joe Calzaghe, Amir Khan, Barry McGuigan and Ricky Hatton. Alas, Neill was not among them.

He did fight the then champion, the brilliant American Davey Moore in a non-title fight in 1959 but was knocked down four times and lost within a round. Nonetheless his story remains one of the most remarkable in British boxing. In 1951, aged 18 and while returning from a Sparta BC training session in hometown Edinburgh, Neill, a trainee accountant was run down by a motorcycle and suffered a career threatening shattered hip. But he battled back to star for Scotland’s international squad 18 months later. In 1957, the year after winning that Best Young Boxer of the Year Award he was seriously injured in a car crash at a roundabout in Newbridge. Told that he would never box again by surgeons who had shortened one of his legs, he stormed back to win the British featherweight title two years later. Then, in November 1960 at Wembley’s Empire Pool, Neill clashed again with the 1956 Olympic flyweight gold medal winner Terry Spinks, to whom he had previously won and lost. It was a harrowing fight with an even more harrowing aftermath.

After being ko’d by east Londoner Spinks in round 14, Neill collapsed in his dressing room and was rushed to hospital for an operation to remove a blood clot on the brain. He was in a coma for several days, close to death, but thankfully recovered, though obviously never to fight again. The curiosity was that Spinks while an outstanding technical boxer, as a puncher couldn’t break the proverbial egg. Yet Neill strangely succumbed to a quick fire but not apparently hurtful barrage of blows; some time later he revealed to me why. He was terribly dehydrated. He had starved himself for three days to make the 9st limit. More crucially his only liquid intake came from a pebble he sucked incessantly to create saliva, which he swallowed. Yet, within five years the redoubtable Scot had embarked on a new career as a world class coach, trainer and cornerman, and manager of some of the nation’s finest young prospects.

Neill was Alan Minter’s trainer for 11 years and guided him to victory in 1980 in Las Vegas over Italian Vito Antuofermo, changing his still-amateur-like style and eliminating the ‘Boom Boom’ grunt whenever Minter landed a blow. He also coached Lloyd Honeyghan, who, with Minter, was one of two British boxers to win undisputed titles on American soil, sensationally defeating the great Don Curry in Atlantic City. He also managed and trained world rated boxers including bantamweight Alan Rudkin and middleweight Johnny Pritchett, as well as featherweight Frankie ‘The Tiger’ Taylor whose epic clash with Lennie ‘The Lion’ Williams at the Royal Albert Hall is one if those domestic dust-ups which remains lodged indelibly in the mind. As a coach Neill was likened to American legend Angelo Dundee and he also produced a book simply and accurately titled ‘Instructions to Young Boxers’ filled with practical advice on every aspect of the sport, a classic manual of its kind. It is out of print now but I saw a copy advertised on a website recently at just under fifty quid!

He retired as a cornerman many years ago because incipient arthritis made it difficult for him to clamber in and out of the ring. Bobby celebrates his 82nd birthday three days before the dinner, and though he has the odd memory lapse – don’t we all? – he is as dapper as ever and barely a few pounds over his fighting weight. Like so many others who will be taking a bow at The Savoy he belies the B-movie image of old boxers being washed –up mumbling pugs with cauliflower ears and slurred speech. Many happy returns, Bob. Tomorrow: Read Alan Hubbard’s Punchlines exclusively at frankwarren.com

Question: Boxers Randolph Turpin, Terry Downes and Alan Minter were British World champions at which weight?
Answer: Middleweight