Benjamin Finn: Thank you for having me, Minister.

Audrey Tang: Sure.

Benjamin Finn: Sorry.

Audrey Tang: How do you spell your project?

Benjamin Finn: ——–.

Audrey Tang: OK.

Benjamin Finn: You won’t find the Facebook page, sorry.

Benjamin Finn: You won’t find the web page because we took it offline out of concern.

Audrey Tang: I saw it on Twitter.

Benjamin Finn: Great. We work on what’s called the —– Project. We’re currently deploying it around the world to fight hate speech, misinformation, and calls to violence. We use a system and an AI. We’re very close to getting the AI to work and be better, and be able to automatically flag hate speech and send it directly.

Benjamin Finn: We work with Facebook, Twitter. We’re close to getting Audacious funding, if you’re familiar with Audacious. Then the coup happened. We think that all of our people are in danger. Eventually, once the military takes full control, they’re going to turn their attention to anyone who annoys them. Taking their lies offline is going to annoy them.

Benjamin Finn: What we’re hoping is, something quite audacious, to bring as much of the company out of —– as possible. I don’t know how to do this, because I’m just an IT guy who just happens to be in —–.

Audrey Tang: You were based in…

Benjamin Finn: I spent two years there. I just happened to be here when the coup happened. I was planning to go back, but now I don’t think I can ever…

Audrey Tang: I see, so you came here for a visit?

Benjamin Finn: I came here for business reasons. I run my own company, but it’s not in human rights thing, so it’s…We want to bring as many of the people out of the country as we can. We think Taiwan is one of the best fits. Of course, we’re getting a lot of funding to save, because human rights defenders do have channels for funding.

Audrey Tang: Of course.

Benjamin Finn: The problem is visas. When I heard about you, I thought, “Well, there’s someone who cares a lot about social impact and might be able to help our cause.” Is there anything…?

Audrey Tang: You’re saying there’s a list of people, because we don’t have a refugee act here. You would be going nowhere without a local sponsor for their visa. While, of course, we have, for example, the Gold Card, but it takes time.

Benjamin Finn: They wouldn’t…

Audrey Tang: They wouldn’t?

Benjamin Finn: I don’t know.

Audrey Tang: Our                                                     Gold Card                                                 is available to anyone who has the potential to contribute to science and technology.

Benjamin Finn: Oh, OK, that would be great.

Audrey Tang: That’s how many people who just discovered                                                     TaiwanGoldCard.com                                                 can get their Gold Card, specifically the Ministry of Science and Technology one. Because you’ve done a AI system, then you have the potential to contribute to science and technology in Taiwan.

Benjamin Finn: Yes, we do.

Audrey Tang: It’s not like you have to earn a high percentage in salary or anything like that. Long as you have the potential to contribute, then you are eligible. You can get a Gold Card from overseas. Once you have that ID, it’s as good as a residential certificate. Then you can stay here.

Benjamin Finn: This would be a lot of people though.

Audrey Tang: Sure. We need to see these are actually the people that work on the project and things like that.

Benjamin Finn: Of course. What would you recommend I do for the next steps?

Audrey Tang: Check out TaiwanGoldCard.com, which is not a government website. It’s done by the people who have get Gold Card themselves. There’s a active community here, and they can probably help you of getting the right messages across, because they can share how exactly they got a Gold Card.

Benjamin Finn: If we needed this to move fast, is that possible?

Audrey Tang: When you say a lot of people, how many are you talking about in the team?

Benjamin Finn: Right now, let’s say, about 35 people have passports. Our entire company is almost a hundred people, but I don’t know if we’d be able to bring over that many.

Audrey Tang: I understand the situation. On average, in normal times, it’s 30 days is the usual processing time for a Taiwan Gold Card, but I can’t promise that it could be fast tracked.

Benjamin Finn: Of course. You recommend the Gold Card is the next step?

Audrey Tang: That’s one possible step.

Benjamin Finn: Of course. Like I said, we work with human rights defenders all over the world.

Audrey Tang: I understand.

Benjamin Finn: The company itself will..

Audrey Tang: I presume that, since you’ve worked with Twitter and Facebook, they’ll be willing to attest to these people’s mission?

Benjamin Finn: I’m sure they would. They’re willing to even sponsor money. They’ve donated in the past.

Audrey Tang: That’s awesome. In that case, our Ministry of Science and Technology would be the ministry to talk to. There’s contact numbers and all that on the website.

Benjamin Finn: Minister of Science and Technology.

Benjamin Finn: Minister Tang, thank you so much. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.

Audrey Tang: Glad to help.

Benjamin Finn: I’m sorry, to intrude on your…

Audrey Tang: It’s fine. Please give your email to ST and we’ll work out the privacy-preserving part of our transcript to be published.

Benjamin Finn: Absolutely, of course. If it could be everything except maybe the name of the company?

Audrey Tang: Of course.