Audrey Tang: I understand that you work across many domains on digital transformation, and have a lot of partnership with local people in Taiwan. Are there particular areas that you think that we should focus on? Because a lot of people in the administration for digital industries here were in the Industry Development Bureau. The Ministry of Economy Affairs and so on.

Audrey Tang: Previously, they have to ask for example, the NCC for 5G deployment licenses, or to ask the National Development Council for data support for the Department of Cybersecurity for security certificates. Now all this is MODA. What previous issues like digital signature recognition and things like that, that were difficult for the economic affairs to do.

Audrey Tang: Now that they’re part of the MODA family, it’s now very easy, so I would appreciate if you can share a little bit about your cooperation, your digital transformation, especially partnership with Taiwan and how we can help.

Ichiro Tsuge: Thank you very much.

Audrey Tang: Thank you.

Ichiro Tsuge: JD-san?

Jen Diann Chiou: Yes?

Ichiro Tsuge: JD-san is our very important partner here in Taiwan.

Audrey Tang: Yes.

Ichiro Tsuge: We have been doing business with him for three or four years. Four?

Jen Diann Chiou: About four years, yes.

Ichiro Tsuge: For four years. We are introducing their technology to many Japanese market. That will become more bigger business in Japan. We’d like to enhance the business to grow, of course, faster. Before that, we are called SIer [laughs] in Japan. Is there any SIers like us in Taiwan?

Audrey Tang: The system integrators? There are, indeed. Also, publicly-listed companies, especially, during the pandemic. All the large SIs – from Trade-Van to Systech to Acer, and so on and so forth – everyone helped to build our counter-pandemic systems. They are the people that did the work while I became famous. This is not very fair.

Audrey Tang: It is the SIs that did all the work. I don’t know whether it is the same case in Japan. The SIs were the informational backbone to the entire counter-pandemic. From masks to vaccines, from contact tracing to the registration system, and so on. All these is the work of the SIs.

Ichiro Tsuge: We know in US, digitalization is very important to each enterprise. Most of the big enterprise are aiming to become more insourced. They’re focusing on insourcing. They have a lot of people who are engineers, who have some high skills. In Japan, still…How should I say? Many of the companies are not doing that. Many things will be outsourced.

Audrey Tang: It’s the same in Taiwan.

Ichiro Tsuge: Same in Taiwan?

Audrey Tang: In Taiwan, most of our enterprises are micro, small, or medium enterprises. They do not have the kind of development capacity.

Ichiro Tsuge: You mean also the number of engineers are…

Audrey Tang: Exactly, which is the main work. The T-Cloud, Taiwan Cloud, the administration for digital industries, is just to tell those medium, micro, and small enterprises that here are the SIs. You do not have to buy anything. You can just subscribe to its service for a month or two.

Audrey Tang: If it works, that’s great and we subsidize 50 percent from the state, so saving the business development cost of the SIs. If it doesn’t work, that’s fine. You can use another, use another. The SaaS model is very good for the SIs to expand their reach from the medium and large enterprises down to the most of the microenterprises.

Jen Diann Chiou: Can I take a few minutes to introduce…Sorry.

Audrey Tang: Of course.

Jen Diann Chiou: Today, our honored guests from Japan, they are so honored to visit the legendary Audrey.

Audrey Tang: Just popular. [laughs]

Jen Diann Chiou: We really appreciate so much about this opportunity. Let me introduce a little bit about our guests. Our VIP guests, they represent one of the largest corporations in Japan, Itochu Group. Itochu Group is world-renowned organization. The IT technology they are now doing for retail, for 5G, for cybersecurity has such a tremendous…

Audrey Tang: It’s very comprehensive, yes.

Jen Diann Chiou: Very comprehensive, a tremendous impact for Japan’s DX. Today, maybe we can have some dialogue, some conversation between, how we can learn from some of Japan’s initiatives on, for example, how to handle the aging population, how to handle the disaster prevention. We all share the same risks like earthquakes, typhoons, for example.

Jen Diann Chiou: Also, we can have some dialogue between cybersecurity in case that’s one of the major agenda on top of our agenda right now for this session.

Jen Diann Chiou: We believe that they will open the dialogue between Itochu Group on behalf of the Japan digital industry, and together with our MODA. MODA is now startup very recent.

Audrey Tang: MODA is Japanese, by the way.

Jen Diann Chiou: Ah, yes.

Audrey Tang: It means motor, MODA.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Right. This is a very good beginning of the future collaboration between the Taiwan and Japan, and future exchange. We see the absolutely good beginning of the future collaboration, and we can share mutually initiated, that we have some of our good ideas initiated so we can start this exchange.

Jang-Hwa Leu: That is one of the largest, most successful corporations in the world. Even Warren Buffett is a major shareholder for the Itochu Group. Also, the legendary Minister Tang is now represents the future of the IT technology. If we can mix them together, we’re going to see a lot of interesting ideas, interesting exchange between Taiwan and Japan.

Audrey Tang: Thank you. As I mentioned, we use the term MODA to represent the Taiwanese pronunciation mòda which is influenced by Japanese. To me, when we say MODA (モーター), it means motor here.

Audrey Tang: We do think that in the case of aging and disaster mitigation and prevention, Japan is in the future, quite literally, not just one hour in the future but really years in the future. I’m very willing to learn from your success stories and also the kind of help that we can provide to make the future happen also in Taiwan faster and safer.

Ichiro Tsuge: Hichki-san a bit exaggerated, but Itochu is not that big enterprise. Actually, including ASEAN, we are doing business globally, internationally. If I talk about CTC specifically, our business coming from abroad is only 10 percent or something like that, very small. But it’s OK. That means we can much room to grow.

Ichiro Tsuge: Recently, I started fighting internally and domestic market in Japan. That’s a stupid thing. If you look at the future, with Beijing, and less people, labor shortage, many, many issues are already exist. We have to take that more seriously.

Ichiro Tsuge: I personally think I want to do more business with Taiwanese companies and also Korean companies, because we are neighbors. [laughs] Many of the Japanese people, frankly speaking, are looking at the US companies. Of course, we introduced a lot of services and softwares from US to Japanese market, and that has been our main business.

Jang-Hwa Leu: It’s OK, but we have to look at Taiwan and Korea much, much, more seriously, I would have to say.

Jang-Hwa Leu: What can we do to achieve that goal? Maybe we want to learn a lot from you. Technology or technologies that Taiwanese engineers have already. Of course, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, many Japanese engineers came to Taiwan and they have job here.

Jang-Hwa Leu: I don’t know currently what are they doing, but direct expand more business with Taiwan and Korea.

Audrey Tang: Definitely. Jang-Hwa now leads Moda’s ADI, and previously at IDB. Actually this is Administrator Leu’s specialty, to make this kind of international collaboration partnerships work.

Audrey Tang: Would the administrator want to share something with us?

Jang-Hwa Leu: Thank you. ITOCHU is a big group in Japan. Your core business also including in the digital transformation and also including AI and 5G. In my administration, we do the digital industry. The different industries need different digital transformation technology.

Jang-Hwa Leu: My administration, we call ADI, it means administration for digital industries. Many, many industries that I have my administration will do that. I used to be DG for Industry Developer Bureau, under the Ministry of Economic Affairs, like the METI.

Jang-Hwa Leu: That a minister asked me to come to this ministry to help the different industry to do the digital transformation. Maybe I have two questions. First one is that in Taiwan, we also do the 5G, to some like Japan government do the local 5G.

Audrey Tang: Use it like a WiFi. Right?

Jang-Hwa Leu: It also group how to cooperate with the telecom and different vertical industry to do the Local G Implementation. This is a big issue is that it can have different industries to provide local 5G in their manufacturing site, and maybe some of the performance at different case they can do.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Can you share this experience for us? This is the first question. Second one, since Taiwan and Japan, we have good relationship and also in industry cooperation between Taiwan and Japan.

Jang-Hwa Leu: In the past, I work for the Ministry of Economic Affairs. We have a TJPO. We call Taiwan-Japan Party Office that to help the industry to have this dialogue between industry side. Now I move my position from MOEA to Moda. I need to do implement some industry cooperation, especially for digital transformation and the cooperation between Taiwan and the Japan company.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Like a data cube in two meters. They have this cooperation with ITOCHU. This kind is one model and the other is that we have many ICT company, and they can have good relationships and cooperation between Taiwan and Japan, and not only Taiwan and Japan, but also we can working together to the other country.

Jang-Hwa Leu: This cooperation is very helpful for Taiwan since we have good manufacturer for ICT, but for the software, for the ecosystem, for the system integration, like ITOCHU that we can learn from you, and you can also have good engineer.

Jang-Hwa Leu: The talent of engineering training, very well-trained here, not only TSMC but also like Chu-san. [laughs] He also graduated from National Taiwan University. This cooperation is a big issue for my administration, for the relationship with the international and go global and for entrepreneurship. On these two topics, maybe you can share first.

Ichiro Tsuge: Your first question, I’m a little bit afraid I can’t have the correct and the right answer to your question. In Japan local 5G, is not that popular. I would say, not yet.

Ichiro Tsuge: We are doing a lot of business with NTD, or KDDI and the Softbank and other take on company. First of all, they have the license. We will have to do, by ourselves but at the same time we have a good realtionship to the local government, or the central government. We have many. Our employees work in there but nothing can beat the realtionship we have. I don’t know why but the local 5G’s not so…

Audrey Tang: Popular?

Ichiro Tsuge: Not yet.

Audrey Tang: Before the administrator join us, earlier I was explaining that in Taiwan, it used to be the mainstream economy affairs and those the 5G local application. The NCC still handles the license like the public telecoms but now it’s all Administrator Leu. [laughs] Which is why he asks the questions.

Ichiro Tsuge: Not like that.

Jang-Hwa Leu: NTT Docomo, they told us that you are doing very well, and the Japanese government also very …

Audrey Tang: Like proof-of-concept around Tokyo and so on?

Jang-Hwa Leu: Yeah. Maybe proof-of-service not so mature, but proof-of-concept is going very well. Also this kind of frequency given by the government, this has not happened.

Jang-Hwa Leu: We are now also learning. This year we have this kind of project set up under Ministry of Digital Affair, and my administration is just implementing to have our industry to more competitive for future.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Thank you for sharing, and the second one…

Ichiro Tsuge: The second one, I think we can do many, many things with Taiwan or Korea companies. Let’s say companies. I am very interested in doing something AI.

Audrey Tang: AI.

Ichiro Tsuge: Using AI. Not only generation AI, but maybe that might have very strong power. Already they have, I think. [laughs] Maybe tomorrow, next month the power will become stronger and stronger. At the symptoms, of course, we can see many, many problems.

Ichiro Tsuge: Like ahead of us. Like deep fake or who can control those generation AI? [laughs] Maybe between countries. China versus US or Japan and somewhere. Political issues will be involved which I don’t like.

Ichiro Tsuge: As a business, business people, I don’t like that. There should be many issues we have to overcome. Maybe in Japan…Japan has to utilize the laws a lot because there is less people. [laughs] The population is getting smaller and smaller. That’s a very serious issue for us.

Ichiro Tsuge: One of the solutions should be using that technology more and more in Japan. If we can collaborate with each other, that might be a very realistic solution.

Audrey Tang: Administrator Leu is also now in charge of the upcoming plan for assistive intelligence, so the AI that helps the helper of aging people. It’s not asking the aging people to adapt to AI, but rather their helper, with their family, like the administrator himself…

Audrey Tang: …who can get more assistance from AI so that we can take care of our elderly family. That’s also Administrator Leu’s job.

Ichiro Tsuge: I’m not an engineer, [laughs] so I’m not a technologist. I’m very interested in using those technologies and doing business. Most of the companies in Japan should use that in the near future.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Also in Taiwan, we have many different industries that use AI to help them. For example, for textiles, they use this AOI plus AI to help them to change the older man to get older.

Jang-Hwa Leu: The technology can help them to do more efficiency to manufacturing. Also, maybe some of the ChatGPT or so. This new technology can help the professor, they recommend some data. The ChatGPT is very powerful.

Jang-Hwa Leu: This new technology, also under my administration, we can help our industry to adapt them and to implement them to help them to do the digital transformation.

Ichiro Tsuge: Also, you mentioned digital transformation. Yes. The DX is still a buzzword in Japan. It’s amazing, but making some progress every year. This is my personal opinion, though. Maybe we have to have a good cloud system first. Then, maybe we should, how to say it? We should integrate the data? We have to do many things, many layersS.

Ichiro Tsuge: Then lastly, maybe AI or something like that. Maybe the concept should be DX. Then, we can talk about DX. [laughs] We have to have a good system. Maybe we call it Cloud or whatever.

Jang-Hwa Leu: In your core business pamphlet, the first one is DX, then AI, then Cloud.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Under your roadmap.

Ichiro Tsuge: Of course. Talking about the cloud, of course, networking is…We cannot avoid to have that. Then, to connect the machines and like you said the people. Then, that’s the life. All the industry should help our life. That’s the concept of the economy.

Audrey Tang: It really is.

Ichiro Tsuge: Then, we can make our life much more easier, not only for me, but much, much older people or handicapped persons. Many things we can contribute to the society. SDGs is too big for us. We can have that achievement by ourselves. We can do together.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Yes. My minister also has asked to have a few more.

Audrey Tang: All the SDGs.

Jang-Hwa Leu: All the SDGs.

Audrey Tang: All the 17.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Very good, thank you.

Audrey Tang: Excellent. Sorry, you had a question?

Ichiro Tsuge: Yes. What kind of impression do you have on Japan? I mean, not Japan as a country. Digital in Japan.

Audrey Tang: As I mentioned, when I was a teenager, Japan is from the future. Like far future. I remember going to Tokyo and get the Sharp Zaurus. It’s a Linux system with a stylus and all the today’s smartphone stuff. Zaurus can already do.

Audrey Tang: People aren’t actually using it, that’s the most impressive part. It’s a very early adopt mindset when it comes to the digital cutting edge technology. It feels very participatory. Everybody can use it, there’s a strong open source hobbyist community and so on.

Audrey Tang: It left a really lasting impression on me. I don’t have to go to the Silicon Valley many time zones, but rather just one timezone away, there is a future.

Audrey Tang: On the other hand though, we have noticed during the pandemic there’s a strong emphasis now on safety, security, privacy and so on. Which is I think also great. On the other hand, the progress and the safety are sometimes in a tension of each other.

Audrey Tang: While I understand that there are many entrepreneurs working to resolve the free flow’s trust issue across jurisdictions. There are also people because they value privacy and safety or security a lot, is also working to require more enhanced data protection and so on.

Audrey Tang: I think Japan like Taiwan has one of the jurisdictions that can handle, resolve, reconcile this tension with participation by everyone.

Audrey Tang: By people contributing their good experiences to reconcile it. In many other jurisdictions the government choose one, or the other.

Audrey Tang: Some of them say, “We all go progress and nobody has any privacy anymore.”

Audrey Tang: Or “ we are maximizing safety and a lot of the development is simply not possible.”

Ichiro Tsuge: Real diversity.

Audrey Tang: Yes exactly, that’s my impression.

Ichiro Tsuge: Yes. We can be like that way.

Ichiro Tsuge: My last request is, I would like to ask you. Can I have very short message from you to our employees? [laughs]

Audrey Tang: Of course. What shall I say?

Ichiro Tsuge: Just. Work hard.

Ichiro Tsuge: Just a few words.

Audrey Tang: OK, sure. So I just talk to the camera and you’ll have the recording?

Ichiro Tsuge: Because you are so famous.

Audrey Tang: To the employees of CTC and the great partners in this digital transformation, as we have just talked about. I believe Japan is literally in the future. Now that we’re both post pandemic, I look very much forward to visit Japan sometime this year, but before that happens I would wish you to live long and to prosper and enjoy.

Ichiro Tsuge: Thank you very much.

Audrey Tang: Thank you.

Jang-Hwa Leu: Thank you very much.