Audrey Tang: Sorry for having keeping you waiting.

Nana Chen: No, I was early because I was around the neighborhood.

Nana Chen: Basically, what I would like to meet with you about is, I’m trying to bring the transgender series of portraits to Taiwan. I had a brainstorming session with sort of the ambassador or the director of the Belgian office. We’re trying to figure out how and where and who to organise this with. I don’t know if you have any ideas about this.

Audrey Tang: Tell me about this series. How do you usually approach a new country or region?

Nana Chen: I haven’t taken it out of Thailand yet. I’ve had the exhibition once at the Belgium Ambassador’s Residence in Bangkok. Actually, three times in Bangkok. Once at a gallery, and then the last time was at the Museum Siam, also in Bangkok. It’s gone to different types of...

Audrey Tang: Venues.

Nana Chen: Venues, right. I feel it’s enough for Bangkok. [laughs] It’s three already. Being Taiwanese, I would like to bring my work here. I think this is quite relevant. The director very kindly told me about you and your experience.

Audrey Tang: Taiwan is currently pondering adding the X-gender to our national identification. There may be some opportune moments to promote the awareness of non-binary, in general. I don’t have a firm timeline as to when this will happen, but I think right after the election is much more likely than before the election.

Nana Chen: When would that be?

Audrey Tang: The election is in November, I think. That’s the city-level election. As you may know, the Constitutional Court here has ruled that the marriage equality need to be implemented, at the latest, a year from now. Because of the city-level election, the Parliament naturally would like to postpone the whole range of marriage equality and related laws until after the election.

Audrey Tang: If they do nothing, then one year from now it’s automatically legal, [laughs] so the president has charged the administration to prepare our own version that respects the social expectations that, no matter one’s sexual orientation or gender identification, one should enjoy the same right.

Audrey Tang: At the same time, review the whole civil code to see whether there are still...We already did quite a few rounds of review, because of CEDAW. We can use another round of review that’s based on the idea of gender non-binary and of gender equality, because of this opportune moment of constitutional ruling.

Audrey Tang: The most likely window of opportunity I would say would be maybe spring next year or summer next year. That would all be good, because it’s then anticipating a social change...

Nana Chen: That’s right, and that’s a nice season to be...

Audrey Tang: That’s right, and the social change have not yet happened, [laughs] so you will get buy-in from the pro-equality camps, who are pretty good at fundraising actually [laughs] and to support. Maybe you can also use this event itself as a fundraising event, so it’s not just taking.

Nana Chen: That’s correct. What we did was, at the ambassador’s residence, because the main event there was a panel discussion -- there is a senator who is transgender and was invited to speak, along with other NGO guest speakers -- I decided to do that, because it felt very strange to me for this project to have portraits of people and to say what is...

Nana Chen: That’s what we did, contributed to three different NGOs. I approached the director here about the same thing. That’s why they are quite keen, too. I don’t know what NGOs to donate to or what causes, but definitely the transgender want to build awareness into their community.

Audrey Tang: The main NGO for the gender equality movement has always been the TAPCPR, the Taiwan Alliance to Promote Civil Partnership Rights. The alliance itself is comprised of many different movement groups. They have a dedicated team of lawyers to offer free legal consultation, pro bono, to LGBTIQ people. They are also very much active in organizing their own referendums to ensure more equalities beyond that is minimally required by the Constitutional Court.

Audrey Tang: Their referendum will happen at the same time as the election actually. It will be extremely political and it will not be very easy to focus on transgender, in particular. The referendum will necessarily be about all the active referendums at that time, including but not limited to dedicated police force for animal welfare... [laughs]

Nana Chen: That’s a wide range.

Audrey Tang: ...and every other thing. It’s kind of difficult to focus if you have the event around referendum time, but right after the referendum, there will be the renewed social interest and awareness, especially if any of those binding referendum gets passed. Then the legislators must implement the will of the people.

Audrey Tang: That will be the first working referendum in Taiwan’s history, so it will be seen as a historical moment. People’s awareness will focus on how exactly to implement the will of the people as passed by the referendums. That will be this spring, next season. I think that’s the more opportune moment.

Nana Chen: That makes sense. What can I do or what can we all do to prepare for that? Who should I approach do you think?

Audrey Tang: I don’t have personally a close connection to TAPCPR. As I understand, they are pretty active in arts-related things. They especially are good at, for example, crowd funding. Other, more arts-related projects, they usually merge as part of their promotional campaign. Their campaign include lots of pop singers, [laughs] and many other more vocal public figures.

Audrey Tang: I think the TAPCPR would be a good first contact. I don’t know yet of any specific photography-oriented...There’s the visual arts. Actually, the place we’re in, the C-Lab, this whole TAF, of which the Social Innovation Lab is just one of the five labs, is looking for creators that makes modern art in this space.

Audrey Tang: That is a possible thing, too, if you have any local partner who want to engage in their creator idea. They have up to, I think, NT$1 million a piece for three to six months of any art project that takes place here. For example, if you would set a studio here and allow people here to take pictures and so on.

Nana Chen: That would be amazing.

Audrey Tang: The idea is that this place is where creation happens. It’s not an exhibition space. We have plenty of exhibition space around Taipei. This is the place where you can see people really doing the creation. That’s one possibility, but you do have to have physical people here to do the artwork. That’s one possibility.

Audrey Tang: The first batch I think ends in only two days, [laughs] so it’s a very short notice. If you’re interested, it’s all in their Facebook page /tcclab.org. It’s a very short notice, but they’ll have the second batch and the third batch.

Audrey Tang: One of the five labs is the audio-visual lab. Photography, I think, is one of the few things that’s specifically looked after in the call for creation here. That’s another one I can think of. What else? Let’s see what they’re specifically looking for.

Audrey Tang: This is about a new body image. That’s the theme that they’re looking for in their audio-visual lab, so perhaps. I don’t know.

Nana Chen: I can talk to them. Thank you. C-Lab?

Audrey Tang: Mm-hmm.

Nana Chen: OK, perfect.

Nana Chen: I would love to learn a bit more about you. I was so fascinated [laughs] about your story. As I understand, you left school quite early.

Audrey Tang: Mm-hmm.

Nana Chen: Then you went to America?

Audrey Tang: Very briefly.

Nana Chen: Then you came back here?

Audrey Tang: Mm-hmm.

Nana Chen: Were you also in the UK, because I hear...

Audrey Tang: Mm-hmm.

Nana Chen: ...some accent. [laughs]

Audrey Tang: I know. I tend to...

Nana Chen: You pick up accents?

Audrey Tang: English is my fourth or fifth language, so I don’t have a accent. I learned English when I was 16 or 17, so I don’t have a fixed accent. I just pick up whomever’s accent that I’m talking to.

Nana Chen: [laughs] That’s very interesting. I will look into this and see what we can do. Would you like to pose for me?

Audrey Tang: Sure, of course.

Nana Chen: We can go outside?

Audrey Tang: Is the light right here?

Nana Chen: It’s nice right now. I don’t know what I’ll use it for, but it’d be nice.

Audrey Tang: Well...

Audrey Tang: As I understand it, we can both use the image?

Nana Chen: Yes.

Audrey Tang: So you send a copy to me.

Nana Chen: I will. It’ll be great if you can put my name on it.

Audrey Tang: Of course, of course.

Nana Chen: That would be wonderful.