David Chang: How’s everything going?

Audrey Tang: Pretty good. How’s it going for you?

David Chang: Not bad, pretty busy. But it’s kind of interesting, because right now we’re in an interesting position to see where we go from here.

Audrey Tang: With the data?

David Chang: Especially with the data. The application tool, I think we still need to do some pushing and promotion for this. Ultimately, I think we have to get our names out, and we have to have established credibility.

David Chang: Ultimately, the tool works. We think maybe hitting accelerators and incubators, helping them with the human resource part of it of getting this visa would help, once you start building from there.

Audrey Tang: Accelerate it.

Didi Bethurum: [laughs]

David Chang: Yes, accelerators accelerates. We accelerate the process to our accelerators, yes.

Audrey Tang: How many people have...?

David Chang: For now, we have just one on our valley, but we are still preparing for the next phase. I don’t think right now we’re promoting, because the beta phase is very, very fundamental. It’s just stories, service providers, and then the tool.

David Chang: This is actually why Didi is working with us as a consultant. She is of former...can I post that? OK, sorry.

Didi Bethurum: For sure, good point. [laughs]

David Chang: She is a former global marketing director for Gogoro. She did some awesome things, let’s just say. I think Gogoro owes a lot to what she’s been doing. She has been helping us with the consulting part of this, with a lot of it.

Audrey Tang: We can also tailor make features as needed by large organizations. It’s a classic, you’re switching from a 2C to a 2B model, and of course, you need a few early adopters, but you can tailor make solutions for them all the same.

David Chang: We package it more.

Audrey Tang: At the second...

David Chang: If you’re purely looking for business set-up from A to Z, we find you a local guide who can help you navigate the bank account systems. Another one, an easy immigration consulting, accountant, legal, if it’s all one package, then we can also give them some interesting deals.

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

David Chang: Then we can also have another deal where it’s not just business consulting, but also helping you lifestyle-wise or educational resources, exactly.

Audrey Tang: You can even white label their whole website [laughs] for a large, multinational company. [laughs]

David Chang: Seriously. That might be interesting ways of going forward with this. Actually, I wanted to give you an update, because ASVDA’s like, "OK, if we can establish this, this would also help us set out a lot, give us the access to resources." Especially, they can also explore Southeast Asia markets with the same model, too. We’ll see where we go from there.

Audrey Tang: That’s awesome.

David Chang: We came here today, of course, to give you an update, because you’ve been so kind to supporting and everything. It’s always a pleasure chatting with you. Because we also do need to some fundraising, I know you had an idea last time about the milestone. It was a pay...

David Chang: I keep forgetting the term.

Audrey Tang: Pay for priority.

David Chang: Pay for priority.

Justin Wu: Pay for priority.

Audrey Tang: It’s a more gentle way to say, "White labeling."

David Chang: White labeling, yes. There you go. Pay for their priority. We’re paying for the priority. We’re seeing, how, if anything, I know you can’t, as a public official, you have your lines. Is there any type of guidance you could provide, because we are at this pivotal stage. Our costs keep increasing, because we have to keep growing this beta stage, beta phase.

David Chang: Core funds are no longer enough to sustain this entire project. As we are opening up new functions, opening up the Chinese version of our site, we’re also going to have to have new people for that. Any guidance you can provide on that end, people who might be interested in where we’re going with this platform?

Audrey Tang: Sure. The first thing still is broaden visibility in the ex-pat community. I’m sure you...

David Chang: We’re starting that process.

Audrey Tang: I think that’s something that can’t be skipped over, because after all, for an agency and a cross-functional agency as you are, trust is paramount. People need to trust that you’re not going away next week [laughs] before they hand out their services to you for a value-adding or for matchmaking.

Audrey Tang: Just some general confidence that you won’t go away next week. [laughs]

David Chang: We’re going to be, "Bye."

Audrey Tang: [laughs] Exactly. Also, I think it’s very good to have a ministry, news lens, or a media outlet visibility and outreach program as well, because that reduces your ongoing maintenance cost.

Audrey Tang: All your system are indeed at this moment, it is actually one time. You can say, "We’ve got additional funding. This is what we’re going to end up with, and then we’re going to partner with media partners, with what we have."

Audrey Tang: If you want to say more, you’ve got to finance new investors or new patrons.

David Chang: Right. I think we’re still at that very tip where we came out with the beta. It doesn’t exactly show where we’re going with it yet, it’s the very fundamental, and it’s more for our development idea about where we can take this.

David Chang: Ultimately, we just have to establish ourselves’ name amongst the foreigner community. From there, hopefully we can also start cultivating our Chinese readers to understand where this platform is going and what the direction is.

David Chang: I think it’s a slow process. We’re also tapping up chambers of commerces, AmCham, Canadian Chamber of Commerce. We actually just met a representative to see whether there might be alignment in what we’re doing, if there can be some win-win opportunities along those lines.

David Chang: Any other types of guidance or any types of things, thoughts, or ideas so far?

Audrey Tang: I would like to get your view on this endeavor. What are your take on this positioning of this endeavor?

Didi Bethurum: Of the entire...

Audrey Tang: Yeah, the Crossroads.

Didi Bethurum: I agree with you. I think the trust needs to be established. there needs to be a few more testimonials, maybe even a working model that you can tell that story. I know you’re in beta right now, so it’s just trying to make sure it works before we flood it with traffic.

Didi Bethurum: You’ve done a good job keeping some of those connections. I think there needs to be a few stories to be told that it’s possible. Even myself going through the tool, seeing all the parameters and stipulations that you need to have as an entrepreneur here, it looks pretty impossible to even get one of these things through.

Didi Bethurum: What’s that story we can tell to say it’s possible?

David Chang: It’s possible.

Didi Bethurum: Does that means that we need to work with the government more closely to ensure that some of these things are being passed through? I think the tool’s a great idea. The branding is a great idea, as long as it’s validated and there’s testimonials. But, I think it remains to be seen if it’s actually going to be a possibility to get.

David Chang: Exactly.

Didi Bethurum: You can’t pass the visa, you just have the...

David Chang: We’re just here to lead them to the door.

Didi Bethurum: ...the tunnel to the...Yeah, exactly. That would be my biggest gray area right now. As someone who’s potentially considering starting a consultancy, an agency, or something like that, or I have funds for doing so, I think it still looks pretty impossible. [laughs]

David Chang: Oh, God.

Didi Bethurum: No, not your tool.

David Chang: No, to have to go through that whole process.

Didi Bethurum: To actually get through the entire process.

Audrey Tang: You’re operating a agency by yourself here, as a ARC holder?

Didi Bethurum: I have an ARC extension right now, so I’m able to potentially consult.

Audrey Tang: Awesome. [laughs]

David Chang: She’s wonderful.

Didi Bethurum: Yeah, for a few more months, but I have to think about my future and I have to think about what’s going to happen after that expires.

Audrey Tang: Maybe you get a gold card.

Didi Bethurum: I would love to get a gold card, but that also looks kind of hard.

David Chang: The processes...

Didi Bethurum: I read a lot of stories that maybe it doesn’t actually even exist. Yeah, I’d love to.

Justin Wu: On paper. [laughs]

Didi Bethurum: Right, and I think that’s...

David Chang: I’ve been hearing more successful cases now. Maybe it’s time to try.

Didi Bethurum: If you can utilize your platform to tell these stores, great.

David Chang: Yes.

Didi Bethurum: I think there’s a massive skepticism in the foreigner community...

Audrey Tang: Yes! I read for Formosa or Taiwan, everybody says it’s impossible. [laughs]

Didi Bethurum: Yeah.

David Chang: Yes, they just give up.

Didi Bethurum: Being very close to your content, translating it, and seeing the actual parameters of what I need to put through, I don’t know if I have the accreditations. I am glad these things are in the press and that Taiwan’s trying to get them through, but I want to see a few of my friends go through it and be able to tell the story myself.

David Chang: We need to gather these stories. That’s what the whole media project is. Even if they didn’t go through our system, because there’s...

Didi Bethurum: Just ensure that that process is tried and true.

David Chang: Yes, tried and true.

David Chang: Even though they don’t necessarily need an entrepreneur visa, we are going to be providing them all sorts of services to show them, "Hey, we can act as the umbrella organization to get all your service needs, giving you local guides, setting up your bank accounts, finding you a space." We plan to definitely use case studies to show what we’re doing to promote the good cause of Crossroads.

Didi Bethurum: It has to start here, because I think the folks that are going to want these visas are folks that already are in love with Taiwan. Taiwan, as a brand, is a different problem or challenge, opportunity.

David Chang: Yes.

Didi Bethurum: [laughs] Opportunity.

Audrey Tang: I’d love to pick your brain on that, too.

Didi Bethurum: A friend of mine and I are doing a talk next week with a New York Times reporter who’s promoting Taiwan culture in New York and some other folks who are working with Taiwan Tourism Bureau. I’d love to have you.

Audrey Tang: OK.

Didi Bethurum: It’s next Wednesday. I’ll give you some information on it.

Audrey Tang: OK.

Didi Bethurum: It’s a conversation I have all the time. I have a friend who’s helping to run...I don’t know if you’re familiar with Andrew Zimmern. He’s the "Bizarre Foods" guy.

Audrey Tang: It rings a bell.

David Chang: TLC, right.

Didi Bethurum: He’s potentially coming over here and doing a series.

Audrey Tang: Oh, cool.

Didi Bethurum: They were asking some folks that are over here, "What would you pitch?" That’s a question. How do you position Taiwan as a brand? What do you want to show?

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

Didi Bethurum: I think a lot of people hold the secrets close to their heart, because they don’t want it to be too exposed, but I also feel like there’s a huge opportunity to market it.

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

Didi Bethurum: It dovetails into falling in love and wanting to start a business here.

David Chang: Yes, yes, yes.

Didi Bethurum: I don’t even work for the company that I came here for, and I don’t want to leave. [laughs]

David Chang: We don’t want you to leave, either.

Didi Bethurum: Thanks. I’ll stick around.

David Chang: Please do.

Didi Bethurum: I’d love to pick your brain about that, too, because I know that’s something that you’re working on.

Audrey Tang: It sounds like a dial-up thing.

Audrey Tang: There’s a new Economic Immigration Act. I’m sure you’re aware of it, [Taiwanese] .

David Chang: Yes.

Audrey Tang: It’s in the 60-day public commentary period. It drastically lowers the gold card...

David Chang: [gasps]

Audrey Tang: ...criteria. I think it’s really less impossible. [laughs]

David Chang: Less impossible? That’s good to know.

David Chang: That’s very, very good to know.

Audrey Tang: It’s a little less impossible. To make it a priority bill in the next session, which is a budget session, it is actually pretty challenging. If you remember, the Foreign Talent Act was delayed by one session, some people say two sessions, because there was some concerns about the job market here.

Didi Bethurum: About the job market?

Audrey Tang: Yeah, about the job market.

David Chang: The job market, whether they can take...

Justin Wu: Taking over Taiwanese jobs.

Audrey Tang: There’s a long debate about people qualifying for Foreign Talent Act actually creating more jobs than they take, and the jobs they create are better quality jobs, anyway. We’ve got some pretty large names investing hundreds of AI researchers, Microsoft, Google, Oath, etc.

Audrey Tang: There’s a general sense of, "Yeah, maybe they are creating jobs," and that helped getting the act actually passed. The new immigration act, because it actually lowers the balance quite a bit, there will be debate, and in a budget period, there is only certain weeks allocated for meaningful debate anyway.

Audrey Tang: Whether we can get it passed or not, it’s anyone’s call.

Audrey Tang: Yeah, it is a stretch, but help framing the narrative, too, from the perspective of a person who really want to contribute to Taiwan, not just in a economic sense, but as a brand-building sense. I think that will...

Audrey Tang: ...massively help the message that the NDC is trying to convey to the parliament. This is a talent visibility play. This is not just a "we don’t have enough babies born, so we need more work force" play.

David Chang: "We need more workers."

Audrey Tang: Which has been the main message, which is why I’m kind of worried.

David Chang: "We need more workers."

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

Didi Bethurum: It’s true, and getting out of that insular mind set, I think is the biggest issue because...

Justin Wu: Is there something we can coordinate even in a media campaign for Crossroads with your consultancy? What’s the time line like for this bill? What do you think is the...?

Audrey Tang: It’s in the 60-day commentary period. I think it still has like 50 days to go, and then after which the NDC will take the public comments. If there’s lots of comments supporting it and nothing against it, it will go straight to the parliament, which begins the session, I think late September-ish.

Audrey Tang: I think it will start deliberating substantially in October. If it misses the October deliberation period, and it misses November, then it will be the next session. It will be next March, so there is a window in which that we need to get the public, if not enthusiastic, at least not opposing this act.

Audrey Tang: It will also help your message as well, because your whole message is like, "This is possible." Starting from the most possible one certainly beats the almost impossible, right?

David Chang: Let’s hope.

Didi Bethurum: Do you drum up public support for something like this?

Audrey Tang: Do you mean domestically?

Didi Bethurum: Yeah.

Audrey Tang: Certainly, we get the job creators abroad to showcase their quality jobs, and the talent people loves the story that utilizes, for example, when the air lapse of those foreign multinationals speaking establishing in Taiwan.

Audrey Tang: We make sure that their message is on positive social impact, like how it will transform our education, on how it will empower the indigenous and to less empowered communities to revitalize their language with someone from the Common Voice project from Mozilla. I like that a lot, because it is participatory AI. It is not predatory AI.

Audrey Tang: Basically, by showcasing job creation opportunities that in the same time enhance the social welfare or enhance social solidarity, we’re saying, "The foreigners are here to help us to create a diverse society that can nevertheless find common values."

Audrey Tang: What people don’t like was in the old, pre-labor act era when there all we had was the 工廠法, the manufacturing plant act, in which practically every foreign company would do large investment in job creation here, as either tradeoff to either environmental sustainability or social stability. [laughs]

Audrey Tang: That’s not the kind of message we want to get across. Still, for people who are older, they still remember the days when the multinationals are here and hired a lot of foreigners, who are essentially in a different class. They may create some jobs, but at the expense of social solidarity or environmental sustainability.

David Chang: There’s still some trauma left over...

Audrey Tang: Right. We’re now saying, like there’s a September, I think -- November? conference called GEC+, and it’s...

Justin Wu: Yeah, I saw that one.

Audrey Tang: The idea is really pushing it, and it’s part of the Global Entrepreneurship network, and so they’re going to have their own conference here in Taiwan, the summit. Just like in the digital economy, Digital Innovation Forum, which was a APAC thing.

Audrey Tang: Still, what we’re saying is that we’re enabling social impact with AI-plus, I would say. Whatever technology and whatever jobs we create, those are just instruments.

Audrey Tang: The values are sustainable development, and the values are social solidarity, positive social impact, and so on. That’s the main narrative. Just by saying, "Here are these people who are looking to contribute to Taiwan’s social or environmental..."

Justin Wu: It’s definitely in line with...

Didi Bethurum: Rebranding the goal of all the foreign investment...

Audrey Tang: To increase diversity, and for the general social good.

David Chang: I think these are stories that we can...Let’s see, because if it’s early October, and we’re doing our media campaign aiming to do it late September, maybe we could coordinate or something.

Audrey Tang: Yeah. There’s a similar campaign from New Zealand a few years ago where they called a Global Impact Visa, or GIVs.

Audrey Tang: They partnered with the Edmund Hillary Foundation to give this special visa that you don’t need any investment. You don’t need any qualification other than that you demonstrate that you can create positive social impact somewhere, and you’re willing to take those skills to New Zealand.

Audrey Tang: They give you funding, fellowship, investment, and whatever. One of the -- I think it was a lawyer or someone who applied for this, specifically to help the Maori people to give their river personhood, legal personhood.

Audrey Tang: The river can be part of the board. The river can be part of anything, just like a company, and the river is collaboratively, their interest is being represented by someone from the government and someone from the tribe. That’s because they have a very interesting constitution that is basically a treaty between the Maori people and the colonizers.

Audrey Tang: This allows for this new kind of legal invention, but then it puts a whole new spin on venture philantrophy, on impact investing, because you’re treating, just like the Maori people did, a river as a person.

Audrey Tang: And donating to the river’s spirit. If the river gets polluted, it’s physical harm to that legal person then.

Justin Wu: ...file a lawsuit.

Audrey Tang: Right. The river can file a lawsuit.

David Chang: That’s really interesting.

Audrey Tang: That’s what this kind of narrative does, because at the same time, New Zealand is also bringing up other kinds of resets of courts. By focusing on these kind of stories, the New Zealand see those foreigners as enhancing the Maori spirit or enhancing the local sustainability campaigns.

Didi Bethurum: That’s cool.

Audrey Tang: Some stories like that, I think would be very useful.

David Chang: We interviewed some foreign entrepreneurs, write it up in English, make it maybe even into a, hopefully, video program, videos translated into Chinese as well. Distribute it across Crossroads, distribute it in English across foreign communities.

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

David Chang: Let’s see what we could do with that, where we can...And maybe have some discussion on Crossroads, because ultimately, we still need to build these tools in.

Audrey Tang: Yeah, of course.

David Chang: Where people can have that cross-lingual exchange, and where they’re looking at the same issues, and where we can actually do some engaging about where people are standing and where they’re from. That would be interesting data.

Audrey Tang: That’s right. What’s the dialogue next Wednesday?

Didi Bethurum: I have a friend who runs a blog who’s trying to bring these Taiwan branding conversations into a bigger light, so we have about a hundred folks coming to drink wine and talk about it. We have a panel. If you want to be on our panel...

Audrey Tang: When is this?

Didi Bethurum: Next Wednesday.

Audrey Tang: Like, which hour?

Didi Bethurum: 6:30pm to 9:30pm. It’s at a space called G92.

Audrey Tang: OK...

Didi Bethurum: It’s underground. Have you heard of it?

Audrey Tang: Mm-mm.

Didi Bethurum: It’s a new work space. We’ve got Bloomberg, "The New York Times," and some other folks from the media there. We’ve got some government officials. We’ve got folks who are working for agencies related to the tourism bureau. She’s called the tourism bureau out on a lot of things.

David Chang: Tricky Taipei.

Justin Wu: Tricky Taipei.

Didi Bethurum: Tricky Taipei, I don’t know if...

Audrey Tang: Oh, yeah.

Didi Bethurum: It’s her...

Audrey Tang: Yeah.

David Chang: Because she causes the headaches.

Audrey Tang: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s great.

Didi Bethurum: She ultimately wants it to succeed. She’s a marketer, and that’s how I got to be friends with her, because we have marketing discussions.

Audrey Tang: She’s cool.

Didi Bethurum: We’re trying to get more communication with the locals and foreigners together, and having everybody get to know each other.

Audrey Tang: Awesome. I’ve got at that time slot, a hackathon here to attend to so I may or may not be able to join, but because PIDIS Is like 22 people, I’m sure that someone will be interested.

Didi Bethurum: Yeah, that would be great, please.

Audrey Tang: Can you maybe send me an email?

Didi Bethurum: Yes, I can, and I’ll still send...

Audrey Tang: I’ll circulate it.

Didi Bethurum: That’s awesome.

Audrey Tang: You already have it.

Justin Wu: Yeah, we already have it.

David Chang: Yeah, we already have it. No need. Save your cards.

Didi Bethurum: Perfect.

Audrey Tang: There you go. Yes.

Didi Bethurum: Thank you.

Audrey Tang: Cool, so that’s done. Anything else you would like to explain?

David Chang: No, really, I just wanted to have...Oh, yeah.

Justin Wu: I still have a question. Later on, we were thinking about building a membership system for Crossroads, and that kind of ties in with the data privacy, with the GDPR and other things.

Justin Wu: We did try to do ourselves some research online about the languages and the method that the GDPR requires, but we’re not certain, 100 percent, like GDPR-proof. I’m wondering if you know of any resources that can help us navigate the data privacy...

David Chang: There is stuff out there we know, but we’re not sure if through your position or your resources, is there a unit that helps with this, with compliance?

Audrey Tang: Yes. The NDC itself, actually...

Justin Wu: Really?

David Chang: Oh, really?

Audrey Tang: ...is the main office.

David Chang: I didn’t know that.

Audrey Tang: Yeah. [laughs]

Justin Wu: We can consult with NDC?

Audrey Tang: Yeah, the NDC just recently opened a GDPR negotiation office. They’re the main office to negotiate with the EU on compliance, and also, it’s the main coordinator of the various ministries that provides GDPR consultancy.

Audrey Tang: If you just google "NDC GDPR", you’ll find it.

David Chang: NDC GDPR?

Audrey Tang: That’s our main office.

Justin Wu: As a private company, we can consult them?

Audrey Tang: Yes.

David Chang: Do we have to pay? Is this a free service?

Audrey Tang: There’s some guidelines...

David Chang: I’m just curious.

Audrey Tang: ...and I’m sure if you have specific questions, that they’ll also refer you to capable teams within the Ministry of the Economy or other ministries. Start there.

David Chang: We’ll see where it goes.

Audrey Tang: If you run into anything, just let me know. You can truthfully say that you’re part of the SVDA push, which is one of the NDC’s main motivations anyway. They’ll be super motivated to help you.

David Chang: Awesome. NDC has always been our friend. They’re a wonderful organization, so let’s see. I didn’t know about this unit, though. That’s pretty cool news.

Audrey Tang: It’s very new.

Justin Wu: Yeah, it is.

David Chang: That’s good news.

Audrey Tang: Two months old or something.

Didi Bethurum: How long?

Audrey Tang: Two months old.

Justin Wu: Two months.

Didi Bethurum: Oh, nice.

Audrey Tang: It’s very new.

Justin Wu: We didn’t know about this.

Didi Bethurum: Perfect timing.

David Chang: That’s wonderful timing.

Audrey Tang: Maybe they’re also in beta.

David Chang: Maybe, most likely.

Audrey Tang: Maybe they need some beta testers.

Didi Bethurum: ...a proof of concept.

David Chang: I know, proof of concept.

David Chang: I guess we’ll have to test it. We’ll go test.

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

David Chang: Any other things? It was just a quick chat, just to say hi. It’s always fun to see you. We’ll see where we can go with this. Especially if you are trying to push the narrative for that, if you need any type of coordination. We’re thinking we’re going to aim this media project hopefully end of September, but ultimately we’ll just have to see how that goes.

Audrey Tang: OK.

David Chang: If there’s any particular things you want us to mention in these interviews, please do let me know. We can include it. We’re getting David Green involved, also, I’m thinking either as a news lens or as himself, so he can also create a better narrative about what we’re doing with this interviewing. We’ll see.

Audrey Tang: Just quick, informal survey. How many of you have a 自然人憑證, maybe for tax purposes?

Justin Wu: For tax, yeah.

Audrey Tang: Do you have one?

Didi Bethurum: I don’t think so.

Audrey Tang: Are you aware that you can have one, as well?

Didi Bethurum: I don’t know.

Justin Wu: Probably not.

Didi Bethurum: I don’t think so.

Audrey Tang: That’s one of the narratives where we’re also...

Didi Bethurum: What is the name of the card?

Audrey Tang: It’s called 外來人口自然人憑證.

Justin Wu: What’s it called, like natural...What’s the English meaning? I never remember the English meaning. It’s like a digital ID.

Audrey Tang: It is a digital ID.

Didi Bethurum: Oh, OK.

Audrey Tang: You can use it to sign documents, to file tax, to apply for insurance, etc.

Didi Bethurum: Oh, wow.

Audrey Tang: What we found is that, while many Taiwanese people here to have this Citizen Digital Certificate (自然人憑證) for tax purposes, the ARC holders very rarely know that this service is good for ARC holders, as well.

Didi Bethurum: From a marketing standpoint, the fact that it’s called a "natural person card" deters me right away.

Audrey Tang: [laughs]

Didi Bethurum: I feel like I’m not a natural...

Justin Wu: Natural person?

Didi Bethurum: ...resident here.

David Chang: You’re artificial?

Audrey Tang: Right, and if we put "Alien" in front of it...

Didi Bethurum: An alien natural?

David Chang: Alien natural person.

Didi Bethurum: I’ve always aspired to be an alien natural.

David Chang: It’s cool.

David Chang: It’s a cool title.

Audrey Tang: The O-1 visa of the USA is called literally "Alien of extraordinary ability".

David Chang: That’s pretty cool. I want that.

Didi Bethurum: I want that, too!

Justin Wu: Wasn’t there a movie called "Leagues of Extraordinary Gentlemen" or something?

David Chang: Yeah, "League of Extraordinary Aliens."

Justin Wu: A while back, with Sean Connery.

Justin Wu: "League of Extraordinary People." [laughs]

Audrey Tang: We’re brainstorming on the branding for that.

Didi Bethurum: E-residency, 100 percent makes more sense.

Audrey Tang: What about Taiwan Identification Card, that works?

Didi Bethurum: Sure, yeah.

David Chang: ...definitely sounds good.

Audrey Tang: The current name is 外來人口自然人憑證, or 外人憑證.

David Chang: Like 老外.

Audrey Tang: This 外 often translates to Alien, though I don’t think it’s the most catchy translation...

Didi Bethurum: Maybe it has a little picture of an alien.

David Chang: That’d be cute.

Audrey Tang: Or just Y Card, where Y doesn’t stand for anything?

Didi Bethurum: Just a Y Card?

Didi Bethurum: The Y Card, sure.

Audrey Tang: It sounds like a wild card...

David Chang: Yeah.

Audrey Tang: [laughs]

Justin Wu: Just call it 外卡, wild card.

Didi Bethurum: 老外 wild card.

David Chang: The LW card.

Didi Bethurum: The L-dub.

David Chang: L-dub, L-dubs here.

Justin Wu: Grab your LWC.

David Chang: 外卡, yeah. That may catch on.

Justin Wu: It is.

David Chang: Was this a recent thing?

Audrey Tang: Yeah. 自然人憑證 has been around for years, but it only started issuing to ARC holders not even two years ago. It’s good for anything that we can use it for. It’s used as a single sign-on system for practically anything.

David Chang: Your labor history.

Audrey Tang: Yes. Traditionally, people think ARC, and it doesn’t translate into online service, because it is not really a card you can do e-signature, according to the Digital Signature Act. Now, we start issuing this card to ARC holders, as well. They’re good as a signature or seal, so it could be used for all kinds of official things.

Audrey Tang: Plus, it’s actually a combo card, so you can use NFC to just beep your phone, so it’s also super convenient.

Didi Bethurum: Nice.

Audrey Tang: But nobody knows about it. [laughs]

Didi Bethurum: We need to talk about it.

David Chang: Is there already English content that’s floating out there in the nethers that we can have?

Audrey Tang: We’re working on a more catchy branding than just literal translation of 外來人口自然人憑證...

David Chang: "Alien natural person card," oh, God.

David Chang: That’s a great name. Actually, kind of catching on.

Justin Wu: Alien natural person?

David Chang: Alien natural person, it’s got a beat to it.

Audrey Tang: Maybe not...

Didi Bethurum: Alien-natured person.

David Chang: Yeah, exactly, alien nature.

Audrey Tang: Yeah, a person with alien nature. [laughs]

David Chang: We’re special.

Audrey Tang: Very special.

Audrey Tang: Once we get some ideas out, maybe we can follow up with this conversation.

David Chang: Even send some information, even if you need help with the English translation. Right now, at Crossroads, a lot of our content is uniquely translated all the time. Foreigners, of course, want to know what Chinese information is out there. They also want the same know-how or same knowledge. If there’s only Chinese content, but you think it’s useful to foreigners, feel free to pass it to us.

Audrey Tang: The labor taxation, health care, banking, traditionally, because all of these are mostly offered to natural citizens only...

Justin Wu: Taiwanese citizens.

Audrey Tang: ...so even after it’s issued to ARC holders, most of the content is not in English yet.

David Chang: We’ve seen that.

Audrey Tang: ...which adds to the reason why very few people know about it in the foreign community.

Justin Wu: The tax system is in English now, right?

Audrey Tang: That’s right.

Justin Wu: That’s the newly updated this year.

Audrey Tang: That’s the one system we worked on, yes.

David Chang: Of course, it’s for the money. [laughs] It’s the most important.

Justin Wu: There was complained about some much last year.

Audrey Tang: OK. Please send me information about the event for next Wednesday.

Didi Bethurum: Yeah, that’d be great.

Audrey Tang: Once we have some ideas, I’ll let you know.

David Chang: Any type of practical information...We had stuff from Eiger, the law firm, about Labor Standard Act. Those spread like wildfire. You definitely see that there’s a lack of information, and everyone’s craving this. Anytime there’s information we can help spread, that would be wonderful.

Audrey Tang: Awesome.

Didi Bethurum: Cool.

Audrey Tang: Thank you.

David Chang: Thank you so much.