Confluence onDemand - can use wiki markup
Asked by airon-tark:

We have confluence ondemand  
looks like here (in contrast with usually confluence) is not wikimarkup section  
and loks like there is no possibility (some way) change current text in wiki editor?

Am I right?  
(Adding wiki text is not what I wat. I want change existing text in wiki editor.)


Answers:
author: Mark_Booth
body: Honestly, what an **unbelieveably stupid decision** to remove the wiki markup editor!

Sure, make it an advanced option, or hide it somewhere users won't accidentally stumble on it, but removing it entirely is both irritatting and an insult to all of those people who have taken the time to learn wiki markup in order to make their own workflow more efficient.

I have just spent the last 20 minutes trying to coerce the wysiwyg editor to insert some new rows into a table by using insert\>wiki markup option. Every time, I either get the whole table inside the first column of a single new row of the existing table, or get an entirely new table. Neither of which I want!

All I want is to add 38 new rows, generated by a script. Even if I had the time to paste in each of the 152 individual cells, whenever I try to add a new row to the table manually, I get a non responsive script error. The old 'basic' wiki markup editor had no problems handling tables with 1500 rows, the wysiwyg editor chokes on a fraction of that.

With the old raw maerkup editor it was trivial to split and merge tables, how can you do that with the new wysiwyg editor?

This is a huge retrograde step.

Come on Atlassian, stop treating us like children who need to be *spoon fed* and *protected from complexity* - show us some respect and enable our workflow chosen rather than restricting it.


author: Mike Hutchinson
body: In all seriousness, this is really bad news for some users. I have spent a long time becoming familiar with the wiki format and was able to create and manage large and complex documents without any issues.

I think the decision to remove the wiki markup editor would be fine, if the WYSIWYG editor was fit for purpose. I don't know if I'm alone in feeling this, but for me, it simply is not. Having to fight with the auto-complete to get it to detect the thing I'm trying to do, rather than just being able to do it has already become very frustrating. (I'm currently at a company that are using the Atlassian OnDemand). Managing large tables is going to be a nightmare, and don't even try to work with the {section}{column} macros in that editor.

Thanks to the inclusion of the "insert wiki markup" button, for complex pages, my workflow is now:

(1) Create the page in Text Edit, in wiki format

(2) Copy and paste into "insert wiki markup"

(3) Preview

(4) Edit page markup in Text Edit

(5) Repeat

Even for simple stuff like adding links, its a mouse move and a click here and waiting for a lightbox to load, and populating a form... It's just bucket loads slower than it was, and really sucks the joy out of using the tool.

Again, in all seriousness, I think this is really bad news. I am much less likely to recommend Confluence to new people now.

Matt - Where can I sensibly raise me concerns, rather than just wining on a forum?

Thanks,

Mike H

comments: author: Matt
body: Hey Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to raise your concern. We're sorry that you've not had a positive experience with the new editor.
> Where can I sensibly raise me concerns, rather than just wining on a forum?

If you have specific issues that you'd like to raise please head over to -- [Confluence 4.0 Editor - Customer Feedback](http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Confluence+4.0+Editor+-+Customer+Feedback)
> Even for simple stuff like adding links

Not sure what version you are using but we recenlty added support for Autoformatting of wiki markup for links, macros and images. Hence, typing \[Alias\|link\] would automatically create a link for you. You can see this in action here -- One for the Wiki Markup Pros -- Macro and Link Autoformatting

Did you also know you can use the keyboard shortcut Command/Control + K to bring up the Insert Link Dialog?

Lastly, we've fixed many bugs associated with the Section and Column macros and Confluence 4.2, due in late March, will deliver WYSIWYG page layouts.


author: Andrew Winter
body: I can't agree with Mike Hutchinson enough. He sums up perfectly the feelings of everybody in my organisation. NOBODY here used the WYSIWYG editor previously and now we're all being forced to use it, with less than satisfactory results. Atlassian told me the the markup editor was removed due to customer demand. Something certainly got lost somewhere in the communication - if WYSIWYG fans don't like wiki markup then they shouldn't use it; it should certainly not be removed!

If the new internal document structure doesn't lend itself to wiki markup then sort it out, Atlassian, that's an implementation detail. Don't just pull a feature that users depend on because you can't be bothered (or don't know how) to write a translation feature that maps your internal document to the old markup format.

Because of this change, we're thinking about jumping ship and using RedMine for our solution.


author: Mike Hutchinson
body: Hi Mark,
> Lastly, we've fixed many bugs associated with the Section and Column macros and Confluence 4.2, due in late March, will deliver WYSIWYG page layouts.

I think you miss my point. When you had a complex section/column layouts, and you had yet to reach a final decision about how to lay the page out, it was a simple thing to simply cut and paste, or delete and retype, the tiny {column} tags, and thereby change the layout substantially.

Now, to acheive the same thing, I must SELECT and CUT large secitons of MY DOCUMENT. You know, that thing that I'm spending all day writing. Mentioned only in passing that SELECTION in the WYSIWYG editor is about as much fun as attempting to remove your eyeball with a teaspoon, the point is that I now need to risk loosing a large portion of my document - (that thing I've spend hours of my working day on) - if I accidently copy and paste wrong, like pressing copy on something else before I remember to paste the first thing.

I am now obliged to perform a careful and precarious WORKAROUND that involved DESTRUCTIVELY editing my document, and all because I can't manipulate the location of the tiny pieces of pertinant wiki markup.

I don't make the wiki descisions at my company, so I'm forced to use this new rich text editor whether I like it or not. It's fine, on the whole, but some things are really, really tiring, and not having the wiki markup to fall back on is just a pain in my  


author: sl
body: If Atlassian will remain Confluence without the Wiki Markup, we will also move to another Wiki.


author: Mike Hutchinson
body: Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

:'(


author: Nic Brough -Adaptavist-
body: I'm not sure I understand the question, but it sounds like you're asking to use wiki markup in Confluence OnDemand? If so, you can't. Confluence 4.0 doesn't have wiki markup or an editor for it (although you can use a macro for it, there's still no editor)

comments: author: airon-tark
body: Got it.  
Problem not in demand. Problem in Confluence 4.  
Thanks


author: sl
body: No more Markup, really? I was about to upgrade our 3.5 to 4.0 soon, but as all of my co-workers are writing in markup and with regard to the policy that Atlassian is executing, we will probably switch to another platform. Any ideas (apart from Media-Wiki or Doku-Wiki)?


author: Sean McManus
body: SOOO SAD!!

# I have written in Confluence wiki format exclusively for 4+ years.  
# If I am in a meeting i write my notes in wiki for easy pasting after the meeting  
# I hate WYSIWYG it takes me much longer to format and type in it than it does in wiki (jsut look how many more characters it is to type!!) ok that last part is sort of j/k  
# Is not part of the point in purchasing your software to have a wiki?!?!  
# GRRRRRR!!!!!!!   
# This change has been a huge time suck for me.

<br />

comments: author: Matt
body: Hi @x30n,
> If I am in a meeting i write my notes in wiki for easy pasting after the meeting

As mentioned above this is still possible with the Insert Wiki Markup dialog accessible from the *Insert* menu or via the keyboard shortcut 'Command/Control + Shift + D'.
> I hate WYSIWYG it takes me much longer to format and type in it than it does in wik

Did you know you can still type wiki markup directly into the editor?
> Is not part of the point in purchasing your software to have a wiki?!?!

Confluence is still a wiki :)


author: Sean McManus
body: Did you know you can still type wiki markup directly into the editor?

NO YOU CANT! if you could, there would not be a growing group of pissed off cusomers on here. I still do not understand the reasoning for not having BOTH editors available.. I will soon be moving on to another organization, and will be bringing a wiki up over there... chances of it being Confluence are slim to none.


author: Mark_Booth
body: @x30n, to me it looks like essentially a political issue. They wanted to get everyone to use their flashy (and slow) wysiwyg interface, so they made it compulsory. Then, in the next version when they bring in the raw xml editing option, we are so relieved that we don't notice how much less convenient the xml editor is compared to the long gone wiki markup editor, because we've had months of struggling with something much worse. It's either that or they just couldn't be bothered to write an xml\>wiki markup translator (they already have a wiki markup\>xml translator), but to be honest, neither option reflects well on Altassian.


author: Graham Hannington
body: > I have to paste them into the WYSIWYG editor, then remove all the new lines, then hit shift-enter to get the document single-spaced.

Mike, instead of copying'n'pasting from your text editor directly into the Confluence rich text (WYSIWYG) editor, try pasting into the Insert Wiki Markup dialog of the rich text editor instead. You will end up with fewer new lines.

This does not address getting the document "single-spaced". I'm not going to touch that one except to note that:

* Semantically (and in Confluence 4 markup), line breaks and paragraphs are not the same thing (sorry, you probably already know this).
* In the default Confluence CSS, a paragraph has non-zero margin properties (and you can override this).

If you want to convert Confluence 4 rich text editor content to wiki markup, you might be interested in [Wikifier RT](http://www.amnet.net.au/~ghannington/confluence/wikifier/rt/).

comments: author: Graham Hannington
body: ...you might also be interested in this [Wiki markup toolbar button](https://wikitechcomm.onconfluence.com/x/zYM0).


author: Mike Reaves
body: If you are running a version of Confluence prior to 4, and you like the wiki markup editor (as my organization did), I recomnend that you don't upgrade. Apparently Atlassian has removed this feature.

I take long sets of notes in a text editor and I used to be able to cut and paste them into the wiki editor. Now I have to paste them into the WYSIWYG editor, then remove all the new lines, then hit shift-enter to get the document single-spaced. What a waste of time.


author: Geoff Daly
body: I have been using confluence for about 8 years now, and because of this change I'm now looking for alternatives for my company.

Wiki markup is fast, powerful and robust. I don't give a rats arse if 90% of your users don't like it or understand it. I like it. Tasks that took me seconds now take minutes, and that pisses me off.

Removal of the wiki markup is the stupidest move Atlassian have ever made. What was the thinking there? Was there any? Whoever approved the change should be fired. You have alienated a core group of users. You did this without consultation.

As I said, I'm going to actively look for an alternative. If it's not fixed by the time I find one you've lost my business.

comments: author: Matt
body: Geoff, we're sorry you feel this way and we'd hate to lose you as a customer.
> What was the thinking there?

You can learn more our the decision to remove wiki markup in this [message from Atlassian's Founders](http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Confluence+4.0+Editor+-+Customer+Feedback).


author: Joseph Leiba
body: I think Atlassian must have a subversive mole in their company who is driving their customers away. How else can you explain their willingness to completely ignore feature requests around markup functionality? I just spent an hour trying to figure out how to highlight monospaced text in my Jira ticket, to no avail. I think I've done this about ten times over the past few years, always frustrated. Some days I spend more time trying to circumvent missing functionality than actually writing the tickets. We're migrating to SharePoint now ourselves...


author: Thayne Harbaugh
body: Someone here just made the decision to update Confluence. I have wasted the day exploring a new workflow to deal with this.

I already have a perfectly good editor and don't need to learn a new one - especially when it's one of many dozens of toy web-app WYSIWYG editors. I really get tired of every site having a different editor that is different than all the others.

The absence of "wiki markup" mode means that Confluence is useless to me.

I'm now moving all of my documents out of Confluence post haste. I cannot imagine that this will be fixed in any way that will ever again be useful. Atlassian has demonstrated that they cater to a different audience than my preferences.

I just wanted to provide feedback as to how bad this is for me.

BTW, \*inserting\* "wiki markup" can be done - maintaining it in wiki markup once it's been inserted is impossible.


author: Erik
body: I work primarily on an earlier version of Confluence hosted at MIT. I signed up for OnDemand for a side project I'm working on and discovered the core editor has been gutted. It doesn't look like this is going to be reimplemented any time soon, which means that I'll have to find something else for my side project and work on another solution for updating our MIT-hosted Confluence wikis.


author: Matt
body: To be clear, there is no more wiki markup editor in Confluence 4.x. Confluence OnDemand customers are always running the latest version of Confluence, currently 4.1. Hence, there is no wiki markup editor available to OnDemand customers. But, you can utlize some of the features of the new editor that provide support for entering wiki markup into the new editor.

**Autoformatting of Wiki Markup**

Autoformatting in Confluence 4.0 allows you to type wiki markup into the new editor and have it converted to rich text as you type. When Confluence 4.1.2 is available (soon) Autoformatting will support wiki markup syntax for macros. [Check out this video demo of Autoformatting](http://www.atlassian.com/en/confluence-content-collaboration#intelligent) and the [demo of the extended support for macros](http://screencast.com/t/WW9nMOvYPv) coming soon.

**Insert Wiki Makrup**

Accessible from the *Insert* menu or via the keyboard shortcut 'Command/Control + Shift + D', the *Insert Wiki Markup* dialog allows you to paste in wiki markup or enter new wiki makup and insert it into the page as rich text.


author: Yuen-Chi Lian
body: What you get from Confluence 4 is a brand new single editor. If you love wiki markup a lot (just like me), it's still supported given the [auto-complete feature](http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Confluence+4.0+Release+Notes#Confluence40ReleaseNotes-FasterEditingExperience).

Check this [FAQ](http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Confluence+4.0+Editor+FAQ) too.


Tags: cloud

confluence-cloud

markup