yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Captivate General] Krynn!:
If you dig through the comments on those articles, it appears that the people who receive the letters are using in excess of 5GB on their unlimited data plan.

Case in point: One of the comments was from a guy who said that his wife was sent the notice from AT&T. From what he says, she hasn't ever tethered, but she's always listening to streaming audio or watching streaming video.

This is nothing new for AT&T. They have long held that 5GB is 'effectively unlimited' for a smartphone, and that anyone who uses more must be using a computer tethered to the phone. With the phones we have now, that simply is not the case anymore. But AT&T is using that as an excuse to try and get people off of the unlimited plans and on to something where they can charge customers more money.
[Captivate General] k2snowboards88:
I hope you're right.
[Captivate General] cnigro1279:
Also just saw this......I personally dont tether much but have used mobile AP. Might be worth looking into for those that do tether.

http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/03/18/att-shutting-down-unauthorized-tetherers/
[Captivate General] k2snowboards88:
If they are using ttl to detect tethering, then mobile ap would be effected. I'm not sure if usb tethering does deincrement ttl. All the reports seem to be mentioning WiFi tethering.
[Captivate General] bames:
i think its a scare tactic.

I don't think they are detecting tethering. I think they are targeting people going beyond a certain threshold of usage as suspected tethereres (4gb or 5gb or more likely)
[Captivate General] vunuts:
+1

Just a scare tactic. I'm on my 11th day of this months cycle, and between tethering, mobile ap, and downloads, I'm sitting at 9gb of data usage and haven't heard anything from AT&T. Yet :D
[Captivate General] bames:
WOW what are you doing to use 9gb of data lol.

Even though i think its more of a scare tactic i think it can be done...its just not cost efficient to do it wide scale unless their is a huge red flag...like oh say 9gb of data usage :). I won't be surprised if you get a letter if your usage rates continually reach anywhere near that later as i suspect that is the type of red flag that may cause them to actually take the time to audit the account and look at the ttl/packet data more closely.

if you have a 2gb or even unlimited and tether never going over 2gb i seriously doubt you would received letter or raise an eyebrow.

This goes back to my initial thought on how stupid their marketing team and management decisions are.

ALLOW FREE TETHERING

Pay for the extra data you need. It breaks down to the same cost...they are just being short sighted and greedy hoping people will think oh...2gb more data for 20bucks and then continue to not even fully use the 2gb they already had paid for on their smartphones plan (they are playing on peoples ignorance of how much data they are actually using). Part of good business and sales is fitting the client with their needs so they can afford it and continue to be a good longterm customer rather than bilking them for services they don't need or use (much like requiring all smartphones to have data plans when some smartphone users could be completely happy with a smartphone and wifi only usage).

If i have $25 2gb plan and want to tether and don't go over 2gb DON'T CHARGE EXTRA or REQUIRE TETHERING. If i go over charge me by the GB just like you would if i used all the data on my smartphones. 2gb Plan + 2gb overage =$45 for that months data (shouldn't matter whether it was used tethered or untethered). If i have a 2gb plan and tether and only use 3gb for the plan why not allow my to pay for 3gb data instead of forcing me to pay for 4gb/tethering. Let people police and pay for their usage. DATA IS DATA and it doesn't cost more for att to deliver 4gb to a tethered user than it does to someone using the 4gb downloading torrents or streaming movies on their smartphone.

Seems like it would be great customer relations, marketing, and a blow to verizon if ATT and came out with a marketing campaign that said Free Mobile AP/Tethering. Use as much data as you need....pay for the data you use. If those still grandfathered under unlimited plans are the concern you could easily audit those accounts if the usage is excessive and either throttle or require tethering for unlimited plans only which might encourage more people to give up the unlimited and take one of the tiered plans. They talk about tethers using all the data while i suspect those doing a combination of significant streaming and downloading torrent using in an untethered state.

A good question is why is one industry being allowed wipe their A** with net neutrality (with so little backlash)
[Captivate General] vunuts:
Lol, I just opened my own auto shop, and we have yet to get internet hooked up in there, so I'm tethered to my desktop there for about 5-8 hours a day. I wouldn't be surprised if I do hear from AT&T, but they can't do anything to me. They've tried before and I fought them and won. I have unlimited text and data and I'm going to use it to my advantage. If they want to try and blow smoke up my ass, go for it. I'll blow it right back :)
[Captivate General] sanderswm:
Funny how this coincided with the new bandwidth cap for cable customers... AT&T is slowly trying to eliminate all unlimited customers. I wish they spent as much time working on increasing signal strength across the US as they do finding ways to squeeze more money from their customers.
[Captivate General] garringm:
I thought my 3 -4 gb / month was a lot.

Isn't a byte of data still a byte of data no matter how you view your porn.
[Captivate General] bames:
what they are doing with tethering would be akin charging us $10 per month to use google navigation.

They could say "hey our navigation per att nav with your device is $10 per month.....if you want to use navigation on your phone you must have a navigation plan add on and if you try to use another free navigation program we can tell and will change your plan without your permission"
[Captivate General] Uncle Irish:
I don't get any letters, but I get a "friendly call" from AT&T about every other month asking why I use so much data. I've been on unlimited since it first came out and I'm taking full advantage of it. When I get the call about my usage, I start downloading on my phone, just to eat more data. I've downloaded several ISOs of Linux distros and MS ISOs from the MSDN. Is it my fault I signed up for 'unlimited data' or is it there fault they didn't look into the future? ComCast tried to complain when I pulled down over 300gb in a month and wanted to charge me for it. Sent off a copy of the original contract and there was no bandwidth cap in it. It becomes a breach of contract if you haven't physically signed anything new accepting and agreeing to the new changes.
[Captivate General] bames:
If you don't mind switching carriers (which isn't that attractive because they all suck and use the same ploys pretty much)

but if they change your plan (for example adding a tethering plan to your account) you have 30 days to cancel your contract WITHOUT penalty no matter how many months you have remaining.
[Captivate General] Uncle Irish:
This is true. You can avoid any early termination fees and essentially end your contract in good standing credit wise.
[Captivate General] bames:
For every time they call and ask you you should place 20 calls to their customer support line asking them why someone called you again and telling them you just wanted to make sure they knew you had an unlimited data plan because someone keeps calling.
[Captivate General] Miami_Son:
I'm sorry, but this attitude just rubs me raw. Cell phones were never designed to be ISPs. It's abusers like you that have made it hard for the rest of us by forcing AT$T to eliminate unlimited plans and by slowing down the network with your extreme usage. Why do so many feel the need to squeeze whatever they can however they can out of a company? If you think they're screwing you then simply take your business elsewhere. :mad:
[Captivate General] cesierra:
People receiving the letter today are iphone users? am i correct? Did any android user receive it?
[Captivate General] xhozt:
uh it has not been solved .. or agreed .. Im still thinking ttl .. otherwise dolphin would be setting off the triggers all the time .
[Captivate General] c0ldburn3r:
Do you really think ATT is going to set packet sniffers at the towers to just read TTL? Once that packet is past the tower it's damn near impossible to get a true TTL reading. Highly doubtful, too much time and effort.

It's a mix of tethermanager, your ID string, and past data usage.

ATT already recommended to users to not use Dolphin as it has false positives.

Trust me, TTL is HIGHLY unlikely, yes it can be done but once again 99.99% unlikely.

Search, read, search, and read some more before attempting to make an uneducated post.
[Captivate General] woody1:
This is not solved, as far as I know. It's circular reasoning to quote somebody's opinion in another thread as a definitive solution to the question and if you read the rest of that thread, the discussion goes on without reaching a conclusion.

As far as browser string being the method of detection, if that were true, it seems to me that the CWM app (which supposedly circumvents detection) would fail, because if you connect another device using the CWM app, the browser string of that device will still be available in the data stream.

After reading what I can find about this, I lean toward the TTL hypothesis. That seems to be the easiest and most sure-fire method. Also, that would explain why the CWM mod works, since it uses direct tethering by USB, avoiding the TTL hop.
[Captivate General] akosha13:
I have been tethering my jailbroken iPhone through Mobile AP for months. I have kept an eye on my bill and have received no additional charges. I used well over 4g this month, alone. I am grandfathered in under unlimited data. I can confirm that the AT&T Big Brother is unaware of my usage.

Several months ago, I called fo inquire about Mobile WiFi and was told by AT&T that id have to go to an official AT&T store to get it activated. Well...they lied. Do you all think this is a glitch? Or can everyone access it?
[Captivate General] livnlif:
I just got off the phone with at& stupid t about a letter we recieved. One of our 5 phones tethered to a laptop about 5 times last month and according to the lady i spoke to, she said their systems detected that the phone was being used as a hotspot or tethered. They wanted to auto upgrade the line to the 5gb plan because of this detection. She did indicate that if no more detection was noticed that they would not upgrade the line. If they do, I will drop them in a heart beat, I'm tired of at&t playing police.
[Captivate General] akosha13:
AT&T detected my tethering and said they were going to auto-upgrade me to another package that includes tethering and add $50/no to my bill. I am grandfathered in with unlimited minutes. What difference does it make how I'm connected to use MY data that I paid for? The lady in customer service Sid they were trying to keep the traffic the control and after 2gig or 5 gig, they'd slow my speeds. If they can't handle the volume on their network, that sounds like their problem...not mine. Either stop adding new users to your network because you can't Handle the ones you've got or release me from my contract that you breached by limiting my speeds and my usage. Last time I checked..."unlimited" didn't have any stipulationsand my original contract says nothing about "tethering". Tethering wasn't even a word when I bought my original iPhone... I'm feed up with AT&T.

Does anyone know how to get around this?
[Captivate General] boborone:
Switch to tmo or sprint like I did.
[Captivate General] Kaaji1359:
+1. I hate this attitude as well.

From what I've read it's just been heavy iPhone users (the reason we have a 2GB cap in the first place), although it might come to Android soon.

So, has anyone made any headway for making an app that can tether and modify the TTL packets so AT&T can't track if we're tethering or not?
[Captivate General] d3v14n7:
Because Net Neutrality doesn't apply to mobile internet / data over cell towers, its a completely different infrastructure.
[Captivate General] ch1pn3ss:
Whenever google gets around to taking over the world, cell phone service/data will be unlimited and free. You will just have to listen to a 90 second ad before you can make a call/open any webpage, etc.
[Captivate General] d3v14n7:
Well said!

Downloading full ISOs on your smartphone through cell towers is pretty stupid, he could have just as easily queued up the torrent on his home PC with his smartphone with a simple app... People who try to milk companies for all their worth just because they can (and not because they NEED to) are exactly why these unlimited plans are not available anymore, because idiots like him decided to abuse the system and screw other paying customers...

This isn't like regular internet where there's pretty much unlimited resources, mobile internet is severely limited, and its performance is tied to how many people are connected and use the cell tower you're on, if someone is abusing it like that other douche is, that means others are going to suffer because of it.

I hope AT&T decides to throttle heavy users or charge them obscene amounts for tethering fees and abusing the system... Frankly, AT&T would be better off just disconnecting these heavy users without penalty, it would free up some bandwidth for regular users so they're not getting insanely slow speeds or getting dropped all the time... Once again, its the very few, high usage idiots who screw the majority of users, just get rid of them or switch them to a tiered plan... Problem solved.
[Captivate General] bames:
if data scarcity congestion is such a problem my point is even more valid....why force people to take a plan that includes 2 extra gb of data which encourages more use when i suspect a majority of people wouldn't go over 2gb's even using some tethering with their device.
[Captivate General] MSHampton:
I can't believe what I'm hearing here!

I'm sorry. If the company want to sell a service as "unlimited", then it is unlimited. And no, home ISPs do not have "unlimited" resources either. Some (like fiber) may have more bandwidth to play with, but in many cases, the neighbor's kid downloading gigs of porn all day will affect the throughput of the neighborhood.

I have Doggcatcher on my phone for podcasting and download a fair amount of audio files, which I then listen to on my phone. I don't come anywhere near the usage of some of these guys, but my contract says "unlimited" (which I pay for as per the written agreemnt) and that is what both parties (myself and AT&T) agreed to.

We have to be careful. When we start saying that contracts are not binding, that means that anyone can change any agreement with anyone at any time. Sooner or later you will find yourself on the short end of the deal and then you will have no recourse.
[Captivate General] divingnut:
I'm curious though. Seems that the opinion is that its due to high data usage but it could be that they are only harassing the big users...for now but know about all users.

I would like to know if anyone is getting this notice on an i9000 or rogers rom...or just those on a rooted official AT&T 2.2 release.

Point being that they might have added a taddle-tale "feature" to that release.

Sent using XDA App
[Captivate General] bames:
they do apply they just have fewer regulations at this point.

Why? Why are isp's who are providing access to the same internet and data have different rules? This would be like an ISP charging me more money for internet net service if i had a laptop than they would for my neighbor and his desktop computer.
[Captivate General] Uncle Irish:
so let me get this straight.. I'm an idiot because I use my phone for work and school? I download an ISO from MSDN or Linux ftp for myself or a client and that's odd? My phone is a big reason I don't need to carry a laptop with me. I can download an ISO while driving 250 miles away and have it ready when I need to install their new server when I get there.

What I hear is you *****ing because you might not have an unlimited plan. What I do on my phone is my business, just like what you do on yours is your business, right? Is it wrong or stupid to pull data from my server at home and get it on my phone when there is no WiFi available? Whether it be music, work, school or whatever, it doesn't matter. I have this type of phone for a reason and its for work, school and fun. I sure hope you don't download movies or mp3's or whatever at home because that's the reason internet providers are looking at monthly limits as well. The irony here is amazing.
[Captivate General] d3v14n7:
Completely wrong, while it may not be unlimited per say, its virtually unlimited in the sense that even if the kid is downloading porn 24/7, he won't affect the rest of your block, because there is a certain amount of headroom available on each node, they're made to provide that kind of bandwidth to everyone who is connected to it... There is absolutely no way that a single kid is affecting an entire node, its simply not possible. When a node gets overloaded, some of the traffic gets offloaded to the nearest node to avoid any slowdowns...

Torrents is the most bandwidth intensive way of sending data around, and it does strain networks a lot... While a single person won't affect an entire node, having 40%+ of that node's users torrenting at the same time will cause issues, and with the popularity of torrents these days, we're starting to see these become an issue, hence why ISP are now forcing caps on their users... And once again, its only the ~10% of heavy users who are abusing the system that are hurting the rest of the customers.

Cell towers are a whole different monster, they weren't built to handle that much bandwidth, especially not downloading torrents... Seeing as how torrents can wreak havoc on even the best/fastest high speed internet connections, it won't take much for them to completely cripple cell tower networks, MUCH less than regular home internet... People who are using their smartphones and tablets to download torrents are abusing the system, especially when they do it just to spite AT&T like the other idiot who posted earlier, people like him should be stopped, plain and simple. Not to mention, those heavy users are the first to complain when their service sucks, their connection is slow, or get get dropped etc... They don't realize that the reason this happens, is because of people like them who abuse the "unlimited" plan.

Yes, your contract may say unlimited, but there's a huge difference between using your unlimited connection because you need it, and using it just because you can... Many in this thread, and even more out there are using it because they can, there is absolutely no valid reason for someone to download Linux ISOs, Windows ISOs, PC games and other torrents over 3G on their smartphones, the same goes for movies, streaming music all day and many other uses... That is abusing the "unlimited" data plans and should be put to a stop...
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
+1, It's even retarded to argue that somehow using data YOU PAID FOR is wrecking the experience of others. Who is to blame for that, the person trying to use what they paid for or the company that oversold their network and effectively sold customers a product they don't have?

Also, what ATT is doing is all around retarded. Data is data. Whether it's being sent to a phone or to a cray supercomputer on ATT's network, it's the same **** that goes through ATT's routers and uses the same amount of bandwidth. What they're doing is analogous to a gas station charging you twice as much for the same 10 gallons of gas because its going in a truck instead of a prius.

Speaking of which, why doesn't our allotment of data that we pay for each month roll over? I realize no other carrier rolls their data over, but still, what a total scam if you consider data a purchased commodity.
[Captivate General] vunuts:
This attitude? I understand people taking advantage of it, but no, I'm not completely networking an entire line of computers, I am usb tethered to my desktop to pull up info on repair procedures and estimates. I'm doing what I have to do. I'm getting MY job done so I can put money in MY pockets so I can put food on the table for MY family. And I'm not squeezing anything out of the company I tether when I need it and my phone is not tethered when not in use. On JI6, there was an option for tethering and I used it then as well. There were no prompts, like with KB1, stating that I need to enable a tethering plan. I'm using my phone and all the features that are available with it. Not screwing the company per say. Did they not screw most of us with a delay of Froyo? Did Samsung not screw most of us by pushing out phones with faulty GPS?

And nobody said anything about downloading any ISO's or torrents or warez (EDIT) JUST SAW THAT POST ABOUT ISO'S... Pretty sure I'm the one that reports those people to the mods, pretty sure Trusello can attest to that.

And if you are implying that I'm a douche, well sir, you can just can the trash talk. No need for name calling, most of us are adults here. So act like it.
[Captivate General] boborone:
When I signed up with At&t 3 yrs ago, I was using upwards of 20 gb on a dumb phone razr. Went to 50 on a fuze. Then up to 70 with the captivate. I have unlimited and use it as such.
[Captivate General] d3v14n7:
First MSDN isn't meant to be distributed to "clients", its for personal use, so unless you're actually buying licenses for those clients, what you're doing is illegal and completely against MSDN's terms.

Second, you could download that stuff long before you leave, and you don't need to download a copy for each and every "client"... One copy is enough for all of them.

Third, you stated that just because they called you about usage, you started downloading stuff on your phone just to eat more data, and THAT is why you're an idiot, screwing other out of spite for AT&T is completely selfish and a douche move. It'd be understandable if you actually needed to use the bandwidth, but downloading just to use up more bandwidth because they called you about your usage is one of the most idiotic and completely irrational moves I've read here... I honestly hope they force heavy users (especially you) out of the unlimited plan for their stupidity.

Actually, it's also AT&T's business as well as anyone else who's on AT&T's network, since you're essentially abusing the privilege of using their network and screwing others out of their service as well, as if AT&T's service isn't bad enough, and you run around downloading crap you already have at home on your phone, and you see nothing wrong with that? And yes, it's wrong and stupid to pull data for the reason you have given (IE: to spite AT&T because they called), especially when you have that data at home already and refuse to use other means to get it on to your phone or other devices/media (such as external hard drives, flash drives, DVDs etc...), you are wasting bandwidth for your own selfish needs due to your own laziness.

And no, I don't pirate anything, everything I download is paid for, and I don't even come close to using my bandwidth cap on either my smartphones or my home connection... Because I use something called common sense, something you (and many others) seem to lack.