yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
That's still not a technical reason that would mandate a tethering plan. You're just making assumptions that people who tether use more data than those who don't. While probably true, it doesn't matter. People that tether without a tethering plan and use very little data are still subjected to ATT's ridiculous logic that they're required to pay extra for data they already purchased.

All these arguments you're making seem to be geared toward heavy bandwidth users, as if people that don't use a lot of bandwidth and stay within their allotment are somehow exempt from ATT's contract rules. I don't disagree that bandwidth hogs are jerks, but I really fail to see how you or anyone else can defend ATT's position that simply connecting your computer to your phone by a cable to download a 100kb jpeg requires you to get a $45 tethering plan, and downloading that same 100kb file then emailing it to yourself does not.
[Captivate General] Miami_Son:
Here's the justification: If you're tethering without a plan you are in breach of contract. Simple as that. AT$T wasn't making a stink about it before and they know full well that many of us mod our phones, in part, to enable tethering that they have tried to lock down. It is because of the abusers that AT$T has been forced to protect the integrity of their contracts and network and why us casual tetherers who don't abuse our plan or reasonable use limits will be caught in the crossfire. A slow network is not just bad for current users, it is bad for attracting new ones, which is probably more important than sucking a few dollars out of the 1-2% of people abusing the network. Like I said, AT$T is still hurting from seeing themselves ranked at the bottom in the most recent carrier ratings (while a small, almost unknown carrier was ranked 1st)and complaints about network slowdowns are high in that displeasure among AT$T users. Going after bandwidth hogs, especially those violating their contracts, is a lot cheaper than investing in new network infrastructure to increase bandwidth. It's the path of least resistance, financially, and will hopefully result in a network experience that is acceptable to more people.
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
Right, so we're agreed then. There isn't a technical reason for the tethering plans, just a financial/corporate one. I can see it from ATT's perspective, just like I can understand the rationale behind the 2gb data plans. I don't agree with either, but that's entirely a different story.
[Captivate General] fldude99:
Are you sure about that? Please show exactly where in what contract..again I think we're playing jailhouse lawyer. But be it as it may, if tTHEY SAY its breach of contract then it is unless its disputed..they hold the cards
[Captivate General] shiftylock:
I use between 3 and 4 gb a month. I pay $30 a month for unlimited internet, and how I use it shouldn't affect me. Maybe if they made it clear that they will charge you tethering if you go over 5gb, I would find that very reasonable. 5gb is nothing compared to how much some people (see previous posts) are using their internet. Or they can do what t-mo does, after 5gigs you get stuck with joyous 6kbps speeds until your next month. I even used between 3-4gbs when I had a Sidekick, which couldn't tether, so IMO it doesn't matter how you're using your internet, just that you aren't destroying your connection for everybody else.

/rant
[Captivate General] crossfire2500:
They know immediately what phone you have once connected to their network. I have an iPhone plan from years ago and have had my cap for four months and a nexus since January last year. Proof? Att sent me a text yesterday about the Samsung captivate update for 2.2.
[Captivate General] crossfire2500:
Finally some wisdom. you beat me to it. I'm not advocating anything for or against the arguments about data usage and the ethical principals found therein. I'm simply arguing against the people who say there is nothing they can do. Read the contract, its pretty long I skipped a lot of it that wasn't having to do with data but its there. It's been a long time since I read it. Now before you all start jumping on me. Their lawyers placed clauses in there that talk specifically about using their network outside of AT&T's intended uses. Tethering is included and described vaguely in the proceeding lines. It later goes on to state that they have the right to add usage fees and also contract termination if they see fit. So not to be a buzzkill but in effect if they decided to they can cut us all off without warning. The contract you sign is for a service per month at a specified price if you feel so inclined to adhere to the terms and continue payment, not an obligatory contract for the service for a specified time.
[Captivate General] fldude99:
^^If you don't have esquire after your name I take your post with a little grain of salt
[Captivate General] Miami_Son:
Leave him alone, he thinks I'm smart!:D
[Captivate General] fldude99:
lol...ok...I guess this will play itself out eventually. In reality tethering is not a crucial thing..nice to have but not essential. But I'd like to know if ATT's desire to charge just to use a native feature is legal eagle
[Captivate General] shadow65781:
I am running Cognition 4 and have used wifi hotspot just a couple of times to test it.I have tethered with light use.

I havent heard from ATT yet. so my guess is they look at heavy usage then do a packet inspection of those that are using lots of data.'Im going to assume with light use I wont be detected.

I have an unlimited plan without tethering.
[Captivate General] gibson3659:
Just a couple of thoughts:

The tethering charge made sense when everyone was on "unlimited" plans so that the carriers could recoup the extra data that a laptop could potentially generate, but that does not translate well when you have usage caps and pay for a set amount of data.

My problem is that there is no AT&T approved plan/solution for the occasional tetherer. I am not using my full 2Gb, and I can usually find a hotspot. The problem arises on the rare occasion that I can't. It makes absolutely no economic sense, or common sense, to pay extra for something my hardware is capable of, the network is capable of, and more data that I will not use.

So in summary,

I agree with the tethering charge if you are on an unlimited plan and tether regularly, but not if you have a cap and/or tether occasionally. Perhaps a good compromise would be that 1Gb of the 2Gb plan could be used while tethered. If that doesn't work, get a tethering plan.
[Captivate General] fldude99:
How about just eliminating all unlimited plans? Besides that, I don't think this is a data issue as much as a $20/mo opportunity for ATT to grab for using something that is built into the 2.2 OS
[Captivate General] gibson3659:
They are trying, but AT&T is also bound by the contractual agreements they have signed. They also want to curb the iPhone churn to Verizon. Canceling all the unlimited plans would certainly drive many subscribers away, but going after unauthorized tetherers will only piss off a minority.

My argument is 2 fold:

1. Their old way of thinking of a "tethering privilege" fee doesn't translate well with consumers when data is not unlimited.

2. There is a market segment of occasional tetherers that are completely unaddressed by the available data plans.

I could buy into a $5 add-on to the 2Gb plan for the tethering privilege fee, but I don't need or want another 2Gb for their listed price.
[Captivate General] guanakito100:
I have never tethered when I last requested to know how much data I was using a month the customer services rep said I was averaging 25gs a month. I have not received a notice by mail, email or txt. I have spoken with the reps about my contact and they have not said anything about the high data usage....
[Captivate General] boborone:
I've asked too and they said not to worry.
[Captivate General] david717:
For those that want to tether and keep their data rates down some to avoid suspicion, load the mobile version of popular websites. Adding an m. just after the http:// will sometimes give you a very stripped down page. And it will load faster if your stuck on 3g or edge.

I tether once or twice a week, but it sounds like I still use less data than some of the mobile only users here. ;)

That makes me feel jipped, I'm going to go download an linux distro now.
[Captivate General] Espaa Valorum:
One thing to consider in all this is the reality that bandwidth is a limited commodity, and that it's in the best interest of both AT&T and us consumers to find a happy balance. While theoretically we have a right to use the amount of bandwidth we pay for as we see fit, practically we have to consider that there are real limitations to the technology and infrastructure. The fact that AT&T promised more than they can deliver (whether intentionally or unknowingly) can certainly be fodder for a lively discussion about how AT&T sucks. But none of that matters if we clog up the infrastructure with high data demand and refuse to pay for the service.

AT&T needs money to pay for the infrastructure, and needs to make a profit to be able to invest in upgrading the infrastructure to meet the ever-increasing demand for data (both speed and quantity.) If AT&T doesn't, we won't have a service to consume. So naturally AT&T is trying to put pricing and limits on the data consumption to try to control things and make sure they make a profit.

At the same time, AT&T must be reasonable in what it charges for, and how much it charges. If you have a limited plan, AT&T should really not care what you do with that. If i can download 2GB, in the big picture it doesn't matter if i download that all at once in 2 days, or if i spread it out over the month. And so it doesn't matter if i suck up that data on my phone or through my laptop.

What we seem to have currently is a hostile situation between the customers and the supplier, where unreasonable expectations clash with over-promised services. In the end, we have to be reasonable in how much data we expect to be able to consume over a wireless link, considering the real limitations of the technology, while AT&T has to reasonable in what it agrees to deliver and what it charges for the service.

Aside from all that - If AT&T really thinks they can clamp down on what we do with our data, i think they're sadly mistaken. The creative and tech-savvy among us will find ways to defeat AT&Ts capabilities to detect things.
[Captivate General] crossfire2500:
Hey, thanks man!
[Captivate General] avs420:
I guess none of you have ever had satellite internet ::shiver::

Hughesnet drops your speeds to near ISDN at around 250MB (yes MB) downloaded in a 2-3 hour timeframe.

Wildblue gives you a 17GB rolling 30 days cap.

You can easily figure out who I went with when I was forced to use satellite.

Being said, I tether quite a bit on a rooted ROM but I also don't go over my 2GB a month limit.
[Captivate General] Magic_Bunny:
AT&T may have secrets!

A while back, AT&T had methods of listening in on voice calling. Nobody had ever known about this. It was a secret that AT&T had and people never knew that it was possible.

With that in mind. There is a high chance that they are able to see that people are tethering, and that they don't have tethering plans. But it's also highly likely that they are just trying to scare all of us into either; stop tethering, or buy their 4GB tethering plan.
[Captivate General] MikeyMike01:
I'm glad they're cracking down. These are the morons that ruined unlimited data for everyone else.

Sent from my Captivate
[Captivate General] JDM9499:
The NSA installed equipment in a room in one of the AT&T buildings (can't remember where). Just Google, "AT&T and NSA", and video/articles about the whole thing pop up. It's no longer a secret like you mentioned, but it wouldn't surprise me today if there are government agencies that still do those sort of things. It was just disappointing to find out that AT&T bowed down to NSA like that, by allowing them (forced?) to install the switching equipment. To make a long story short, all of the internet and phone communications running through AT&T servers were split to the NSA headquarters where they were streamlining wiretaps. They could and were listening to millions of subscribers phone calls, and reading emails. Talk about scary stuff...
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
Doubt it.. AT&T marketed the 2gb and 250mb plans as a way to save money, by stating that almost nobody goes over 2gb so it would be to the customers' benefit to downgrade from the unlimited plan.

Something tells me they were just playing for long term gains - getting as many people to switch to a capped plan as possible and eliminating unlimited plans for new customers, knowing that mobile data usage is only going to increase as mobile services become more data intensive.
[Captivate General] boborone:
This is the mindset I don't get. Why come to at&t if you want unlimited and ***** cause you don't have it. Why didn't yall go sprint or t mobile? That makes no sense at all. Like going to a weight watchers restaurant and *****ing cause you didn't get all you can eat.

Really you're the morons for coming to at&t.
[Captivate General] garringm:
I did that untetherd mobile only. I started it before I left the house and let it download while running my errands one day. I downloaded the Ubuntu netbook for my son
[Captivate General] dodaniels:
Too bad T-Mobile is now (near future) AT&T.... lol!
[Captivate General] david717:
Don't be stupid. AT&T just recently gave up unlimited. Like me, he is probably grandfathered in to the unlimited. We didn't come to att, we stayed. Cuz we haz unlimited and no throttling :p

(To my knowledge ;))
[Captivate General] boborone:
Then you don't be stupid. Why care about the end of unlimited if you already have it?
[Captivate General] groves226:
I would read the TOS again. If your phone is subsidized then you have more limits in place on you (more so if you went to wirefly) but if you buy it outright you can do a lot with your phone. When you do something that might harm the network you are in violation, but it would be a hard legal fight if ATT tried it and someone called their bluff.

Also in the TOS anything over 5GB can be considered excessive and you can be terminated, and that is on EVERY carriers TOS.

There are multiple reasons for this. Did anyone ever sue their land line provider for only having 1 trunk for every 10-100 devices?

This thread is like reading people complaining about speeding tickets and speed limits. "my car can do 130 " but that doesn't mean you should, and when you do get busted it is your fault so accept the ticket and move on.

If you think that analogy sucks please come up with a better one.
[Captivate General] bames:
Offer people wider range of options.

1. Give first 250mb free

2. Offer plans ranging from 1-5gb. 1GB start @ $15 each additional GB is $10 whether by overage or structure.

3. Two part incentive for people to give up unlimited plans. (carrot and stick)

Carrot - Pick out phone of your choice Free with 2year contract if you accept tiered plan.

Stick -- No tethering Charge for Tiered plans. Pay for the data you use. Update terms of service that any unlimited plans using more than 6 gb per month will be enrolled in a 20$ tethering add on plan.
[Captivate General] bames:
Not trying to flame and i am just using your own words....yes i think your analogy sucks (or in more polite terms....is flawed).

What ATT did with unlimited plans is more akin to creating an Audoban and saying their is no speed limit (and saying look everyone else is going to be going really fast so it will be safer for your to go fast and keep the flow of traffic) and then pulling people over, harassing them, and taking their vehicle/license because they were going 100.
[Captivate General] groves226:
You know, I do like yours better. I also like the point of view it provides.

I haven't read about how LTE works, but because of the way HSPA and the whole of 3G tech works ATT needs to protect their network so it can provide as close to 5 9's as possible... just like any ISP or carrier or service provider.

look at the SXSW festival a few years ago when all networks in Austin crashed. Or Verizon when they started pushing Android and the impact it had on their network.

ATT is doing what needs to be done to provode their service, and if making a VERY small percentage of customers upset in the short term will make a VERY large percentage happy in the long term, then it is what will be done.

Checking on suspected tethering users, buying spectrum (and carriers) and advancing to supposed 4G tech is what they are doing, and arguably what needs to be done. If users didn't read their TOS then who is at fault?
[Captivate General] garringm:
I got my unlimited data plan with the ATT Tilt, of which I would tether back then as well and I got it somewhere close to 5 yrs ago.

My wife got hers with the Pantech multi slide Windows Phone I can't remember the name now but since then she has had a BB curve, BB Bold and the other BB after that one, then she moved on to the Iphone 3gs that I gave her and now she has a captivate as well which she still maintains the Unlimited data plan.
[Captivate General] lockheedload:
You lost your unlimited data when you upgraded to the captivate? Either you're full of BS or you did it wrong.

-Sent from my Galaxy Tab
[Captivate General] asrrin29:
To all the people who are defending the caps of those of us with unlimited data, screw off.

sorry, but my blood is boiling at the incompetence I'm hearing. Lets do some VERY simple math. a streaming video that is very heavily encoded may take up 768kbs. Though higher definition content can go upwards to 2000kbs. one hour of streaming at 768kbs equates to 2.7gbs. that is 337.5MB per hour of video streaming. If you have the 200MB plan, you cannot even watch a single hour of low quality video per month!

Lets do audio streaming. a standard mp3 bitrate is 128kbs or 192kbs, but for the sake of argument lets do a heavily compressed audio rate of 96kbs. this equates to 337.5mbs or 42MB per hour. in as little as 50 hours of streaming (less than two hours of audio per day for the month) and you've completely blown past the 2GB data plan cap.

But what about wi-fi? consider the average person's work commute. Most people spend any where from 1-3 hours in traffic every day. if you use your streaming radio while in the car, you will hit your 3G cap every month, because there is no wi-fi out on the open road.

I've not even touched video games, market downloads, email, web browsing, and other misc. downloads. If you are an IT person, and need to remote into a server? consider that you need a video stream of the desktop in addition to an upload of commands, and it easily becomes as expensive bandwidth wise as video streaming.

This phone, as well as EVERY OTHER smartphone on the market, including the iphone, are marketed for media consumption. To place such asinine bandwidth limits on devices that even my grandmother can blow past, you are being disingenuous at best, and criminal at worst. so I don't want to hear any "holier than thou" idiots telling me that I am abusing my data connection doing what any normal person would expect on this phone.
[Captivate General] lockheedload:
Sprint is looking mighty fine these days. $125 service credit will pay for my ETF, plus I can sell the cappy for a few bucks. I also get a 20% discount through them with my work. I can tether the 4g connection (like my buddies do with their evos) and get rid of my Clear hotspot. I'm done with ATT. Canceling my home internet service with them as well.
[Captivate General] Miami_Son:
It has been standing procedure that when you use your upgrade for a new phone and sign a new contract, AT$T will no longer allow you to keep your unlimited data plan and will move you to the 200mb or 2gb plan. Unless you are on an iPhone. That's not BS.
[Captivate General] groves226:
Sprint's TOS they also have a 5GB limit after which they can call your use excessive. Now I don't know have anybody that have had it enforced yet but fair warning, read the TOS.
[Captivate General] lockheedload:
WOW. I really really really wonder how me, my brother, AND my wife managed to retain our unlimited data plans even when upgrading to android devices.

BLASPHEMY.
[Captivate General] lockheedload:
That's reasonable, but at least they're not giving people **** for tethering up to that 5GB.
[Captivate General] asrrin29:
Unless they have made this change within the past 6 months, this is not true. They went to HUGE lengths to tell people with unlimited data that they would be grandfathered in even when purchasing new phones. The only time there was even an issue was if you were going from a generic smartphone (winmo/android) to BlackBerry (because it is a special plan all of it's own). I was assured multiple times by multiple people both third party resellers (best buy) and AT&T Reps that I would not lose my unlimited plan when purchasing the Cappy. and I didn't.
[Captivate General] lockheedload:
BOOM. Headshot.
[Captivate General] boborone:
Yeah there were alot of people loosing it through wirefly but all you had to do was call cs and they would change it. I called cs three times before I got the captivate to make sure I would keep it. Told em that if I couldn't I was switching. All good here.
[Captivate General] joeybear23:
I had the unlimited on my blackberry when I upgraded to the captivate and they transferred me to an unlimited smartphone plan... no hassle.
[Captivate General] Miami_Son:
I deflect the headshot and shoot from the hip.:p

OK, made a call and here's the scoop. I was not on a smartphone plan even though I should have been since buying my LG Incite in January 2009. When I upgraded this past December I was not eligible for grandfathering since I had been using a plan that was not correct for my phone. I had no choice but to get put on a tiered plan. This is what they are doing to anyone currently upgrading who had an unlimited, non-smartphone plan. Only people who previously had an unlimited smartphone plan are being allowed to keep them. I don't know why they didn't upgrade my plan back in 2009 when I went from a RAZR to the Incite, but I still made out since I was only paying $10 a month for my data plan all during that time and had every bit the same access as those with smartphone plans. I guess I should have used it to download torrents and stream high-def movies. Darn.:D
[Captivate General] MikeyMike01:
I don't have unlimited.

I didn't switch to AT&T.

There's no reason to use 10GB a month and selfishly blindly **** everyone else over.

What goes around, comes around; Now those people are getting what they deserve.

Sent from my Captivate
[Captivate General] boborone:
Mike, anytime you try to make a point about unlimited data, its just full of fail. I've never seen you make any sort of point at all. Just give it up man.
[Captivate General] modest_mandroid:
How so? Nothing is preventing people grandfathered on unlimited plans from hogging bandwidth with their phones. The article states that AT&T is now detecting people that tether without a tethering plan and forcing them in to one; that includes both people on unlimited and capped plans, whether they hog bandwidth or not. This isn't any sort of payback.
[Captivate General] boborone:
Mike if you're so against data hogs, why not cook a data limit in your rom? See how well that goes over.

I swear, there's more crying in here than at a daycare. Look at vibrant and what they did with t mobile throttling data. They made a work around with the build prop. None of them went in the thread and moaned about data hogs. Jesus, get a tissue and get over the fact that some people connect more than you.