yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ecapox:
I "tether" my phone every day for 5+ hours to my car radio and listen to podcasts and to my bluetooth headset at work. I have been doing this for the past few years. No "Tethering" letter. I have friends that do the same at work as well and they have received no letter.

This isnt tethering and everyone knows it. You will not get a letter for this kind of stuff. Hell, you dont even need to turn on the mobile hotspot for this to work. Whoever told you that using bluetooth to listen to music, is tethering is wrong and an idiot.

Exactly what is going on, no one truly knows, but it looks to be avoidable by not using apps from the marketplace that allow you to tether.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
Obviously it isn't. But they're training their reps to tell people this. And the idiot reps don't know anything, they're just reciting what they were told.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KryptosXLayer2:
I feel really sorry for you, believing everything you read online!

Agreed...... I've been using tethering for quite some time now, did it all day at an event today in honor of it being "the last day" to tether, says some people from their conversations with AT&T reps, and I haven't received anything in the mail! How are you guys getting this and the vast majority of people on here, including the rest of the Android world, not having issues with AT&T catching on?

One thing I've noticed..... the people claiming to get this letter have less than 20 or so posts, whereas those with posts in the hundreds are saying they haven't had any issues - it isn't like this across the board, but those that didn't just join to say "AT&T sucks, I'm switching to [Network X] if they move my plan" aren't having these issues for the most part! That's why I've been coming on here asking what other phones have seen these issues and why isn't this being blasted across Android-related news sites like Android Police / Community / Phandroid / etc??? If AT&T was targeting Android owners for "illegal tethering," I'm sure I would have seen it in all the tweets and G+ posts I go through every day!
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] richhed:
OK, I have been through 5 rounds of AT&T's group of retards that can only argue that headphones constitute tethering, and even one round of escalation to THE HIGHEST level of escalation (back to that in a moment), which resulted in even that HIGHEST level of escalation transferring me back down to the retard crew, and NOBODY gave me the slightest inkling about how they "knew" I was tethering...

I'm thinking it's TTL, see http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php? p=14077254&highlight=fincan#post14077254

That earlier post, and I'll try that and hope it works, but the UDP and other protocols than HTTP could also hold weight as far as how EXACTLY they are accusing us of this. I know FOR A FACT that there's NO WAY it's "the network" detecting it, as the retard crew keeps insisting. They can't put any sort of time stamp on WHEN I was supposedly tethering, or ON WHAT DAY I was allegedly tethering so what that tells me is there is a person, not an automated system, that detected it. Otherwise they would have proof, or a record, of me tethering.

Either way, I plan on filing a complaint with the FCC, and accusing them of packet sniffing, just because if they won't tell me how they ARE actually doing it, then I can certainly have REASONABLE BELIEF that they are violating FCC consumer privacy protection laws governing packet sniffing and ISPs, I'm just worried about whether the FCC will define AT&T as an ISP...

BY THE WAY, ANYONE VERY UNHAPPY ABOUT THIS CAN PLACE A CALL TO THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF ESCALATION POSSIBLE: THE AT&T WIRELESS OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT, BY CALLING:

866-751-5784
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Schoralous:
Well as a network administrator of 20+ years who has worked on cellular nets as well I will venture the following possibilities - i.e. how I would do it if I were looking (all will be assuming they are not remote accessing the device):

1. TTL is a good one. If I know the default TTL of the device in question I could easily use a simple shell script to capture the network packet data and look for the ttl, knowing what it must be at a certain point in the network. If it's different, someone is playing.

2. The TCP/UDP thing - this is total crap. Are there UDP packets involved with tethering, technically yes, but only in the sense that UDP is being passed through the NAT device by whatever application on the backend is using UDP packets to transfer data (i.e. streaming app on the device itself, or the tethered device)

However there are no specific UDP packets associated with tethering itself. The NAT/tether interface is forwarding both TCP and UDP packets as needed.

There are also several android apps that use UDP so just the presence of UDP or another type of traffic would not be enough to prove tethering.

3. Look for the browser type. It would be easy to write a shell script that would sniff the data coming from the device into the network and pull out the http packet info that contains the browser identifier that tells each web site you visit, which browser you are using. That browser identifier also tells the remote site what platform machine you are using. Search for things other than the browsers available on the smartphone device and voila, someone is tethering.

The same can be done for ANY protocol that uses identification signatures - i.e. HTTPS, FTP, SCP, SSH, etc..

Personally I think AT&T is using a combination of 1 and 3 as well as remote accessing of the phone, thinking they have the right to do so for "management purposes". If they do remote access, they can tell anything they want in very fine detail.

BTW - all of these would be automated scripts once written and put in place, that simply mailed a report of what they found to either someone for further followup, or possibly even automatically inserting what it found into some database (aka the 'Network' auto-flagging) - personally I think a fully automated system would be ridiculous but I've seen corporate america make worse mistakes so who knows.

The remote access may also be through the radio chipsets and their control interfaces. Something they definately have remote administrative access too. It would be easy to write a 'backdoor' access into the OS from the chipset/driver standpoint, and it would be pretty undetectable since those drivers/apps/chipsets have to have system level access for the device to even work.

AT&T is not going to admit how they know until they are made to admit it. It would give us to much information on how to get around it, as well as probably implicate themselves in some kind of illegal sniffing or something. Unfortunately the law it probably on their side in this case :(
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tapeworm_george:
Can people who are receiving letters please tell us how they are tethering? That is, whether they have removed the authentication check, are using a tethering app including which one, or another method.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] johnny8410:
I removed the authentication check (used sqlite to change value from 1 to 0 i believe).
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] moobieboobie:
Perhaps this might be an issue to bring up with the BBB?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mechpilot:
I have recieved a text and my sister got the letter. I call and basiclly they are telling me that because I use a bluetooth headset to watch netflix that is concidered teathering, she listens to pandora thru the same type of bluetooth headset.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Crappyvate:
Thanks. Where should I look ? How can I modify the TTL value
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
That is so much BS. I've defended AT&T time and time again over the years, but I can't any longer :mad:.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wallsg:
Put Dolphin in "Desktop Mode" (Settings->Dolphin settings->User Agent->Desktop) and go to http://whatsmyuseragent.com/.

Mozilla/5.0 (MacIntosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_3; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0 Safari/533.16

Obviously I'm tethering a Mac to my phone... not. The only Apple product that has ever been in our house was my wife's Apple MacIntosh that we gave away in 1992 or so, unless a visitor had an iPhone I wasn't aware of.

Back to "Android (Default)":

Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; SAMSUNG-SGH-I897/I897UCKB1 Build/FROYO) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1

Desktop mode is sometimes required to bypass the idiots that think that since you're on a mobile device that you should not be allowed to view anything other than their mostly-useless stripped-down "m.xxx.xxx" site. IIRC, I've only used it for real one time and a handful of times while investigating this fiasco.

There is also a "Custom" selection where you can define your own string making it impossible to collect "all" possible user agent strings available on a device. If I wanted to I could make it look exactly like what Chrome is showing me here:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1

So, do you believe that the User Agent string is in any way a valid method of detecting tethering to use as indisputable proof of a violation so that a contract can be modified against the will of one of the signatories?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xfinrodx:
This was my thought exactly. The problem is that AT&T isn't telling how they are identifying. Simply that the network has flagged you. How does one fight something that isn't defined, whether one is innocent or guilty?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
This is my concern.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jack_slapped:
I got a text, and had to call att because they were threatening to take away my unlimited data if I didnt stop tethering. The method I used was simply ticking the usb tethering button in wireless settings and hooking my phone up to my pc. Im running cm7 on the atrix. It was only for like 5 minutes for a single day and somehow they knew. Some rep told me they have a method of seeing where the data ends on devices, and if it ends at any other place than your phone then they can tell. for instance a laptop or a home computer...etc. Didnt know they would be so swift, let alone be nazis about such a small amount of tethering. Im fairly certain it isnt related to the amount of data used considering my experience with them. I just think its crazy to put a cap on data... Unlimited data is the future. Those poor souls who dont have unlimited data really cant utilize google music to its fullest potential or any other streaming service for that matter. . . Trying to force people into paying X amount for gigabytes of data just seems crazy to me. Just my 2 cents.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] slayu:
What was the time interval between tethering for 5 minutes and receiving the letter/txt?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dupreeks:
I have been tethering with APN custom tethering since the day I ran gladroot. It has been months and I use my phone 12-24 hours a day for wifi hotspot that my wife uses on her pc and cell and that I use on my pc and ARCHOS 101. I am yet to get a letter or text....on another note I downloaded a Moto Feather app the other day because I wanted a backup way to feather if they somehow made the custom APN unusable. I loaded the app and I saw it was not going to work for me because it was USB only I think. Whatever it was my point is the app was useless to me. I got a phone call on friday (same day I opened that app) from an automated at&t message that said we have important information to discuss with you regarding phone number 111-111-1111. It then asked to press one if I was the primary bill name on the acct and 2 if I wasn't. I pressed 2 and it said thank you and hung up. Now since then the same 800 NUMBER has called back twice and hung up instantly. Very strange...almost like they were seeing if they would get a live voice. My mother is the primary account holder and neither she or my father have gotten a letter or text about the unlimited data and she.never got a call from the 800 number that asked if I was the primary. What is up with all of this? I am scared to tether now but I shouldn't have a reason to. I think running that app is why prompted the automated call. Anyone wanna comment on this?

Sent from Atrix 4G root/unlocked. "That's what she said"
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ChumleyEX:
that's amazing that your number is 111-111-1111, just amazing ;)
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] live4nyy:
Not as amazing as my number: XXX-XXX-XXXX....:D

A friend of a friend who is married to another friend of mine has 123-456-7890!!
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jack_slapped:
It was maybe a day or two later. Not entirely sure of how long
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dupreeks:
So At&T caught me tethering. I turned on mobile hotspot for the first time today since last week and then **** hit the fan. Script running now that is renaming files, permissions and is even searching my dropbox files. It is looking for APN related files. That is just the beginning. I don't have much time to explain because im on the phone now and my data which was deactivated at 6:59 PM is now connecting me to a diffferent server and trying to change SU and telling me false information about servers and data. This really sux big balls like a hardcore virus so im pulling the battery until tomorrow. I will post logs and db files when I can. Don't tether using APNs [custom] because you'll get screwed. I don't see how this is legal.

Sent from Atrix 4G root/unlocked. "That's what she said"
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] s1mpd1ddy:
Has everyone that's been caught tethering , using the tether to connect a pc?

I've been tethering a lot lately, but connecting tablets. Have not got a text yet....

Sent from my alien
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ccrows:
Almost as amazing as my 1234 code on my briefcase... ;)
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dupreeks:
Funny, 1234 is the same as I use on my luggage. Btw it doesn't matter what phone I use as far as my account being thrizottled. Suck.balls.motoblur.res.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dupreeks:
I got caught the second I turned my hotspot on last night after not using it since the 1st and never getting a letter from our good friends over at AT&T. Sux
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] stewartsoda:
The second you turned on your hotspot or the second you connected a device to your hotspot?

Anybody been busted for using the no-tethering webtop mod?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nosit1:
Just got the text message that they're moving me over. Tether but haven't recently.

When do they switch you over? I see it still in my system.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KryptosXLayer2:
I really don't understand how you guys are getting hit..... I tether at least once a day and sometimes for hours at a time, and haven't been "caught!" I tether using the native tethering on the phone that was incorporated in the first 2.3.4 ROM released
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nosit1:
I had been tethering for a while, way back to the iPhone. The first time I had gotten the letter, I believe it was from the iPhone. However, when I got the new text message, I had been using my Atrix and tethering through the Wifi Tether app (not the embedded software). It's really strange now of all times...
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] erraz:
What are you tethering to?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KryptosXLayer2:
Galaxy Tab 10.1 with user agent set to desktop most of the time and sometimes my Windows 7 laptop... Both of which should trigger this dreadful text or email, but I still haven't been "caught" yet....
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] quicklyspent:
What part of the country are those getting letters living in? Are they targeting over saturated markets or something?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pukemon:
Imo, i think theyre targeti.g customers with unlimited plans and heavy data users. If youre on the 2gb plan already, they probably arent messing with you much. Atnt gets $10 when you go over. Atnt doesnt get **** when you bend them over on an unlimited plan.

I voided my warranty and your mum.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] KryptosXLayer2:
Maybe I should mention that I AM on the unlimited plan as well........ so I am a "target" but still haven't been "caught" like those claiming they're getting texts and emails from AT&T!
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jaketc:
I have 2gb plan. I got a text and a letter. I was using the embedded program on aura rom. She said pda net or wifi tether will all trigger it, to remove them asap. I also use pandora over webtop over 3g, do u think that might trigger it?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kisnerct:
Probably jinxing myself here, but I haven't used below 6 gb a month for over a year on unlimited plan (highest use was 14GB) and still have heard nothing. Curious if peoples locations have anything to do with this. I'm located in Brookline, MA.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] quicklyspent:
I'm asking location (even a general location) b/c they don't appear to be going after unlimited data plans or heavy users only. I have a friend who tethers, always 40GB+ a month, and no letter. Plenty of similar claims. Some folks on here claim to rarely go over 5GB a month and have been warned.

I'm wondering if this is just an easy way to alleviate congestion on over saturated markets. Any $$ they make from it, bonus!
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jaketc:
Maui county, hawaii.

No high speed 3g here.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] erraz:
I live in tulare california and I use around 10 gigs a month and have been caught
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] revrenhex:
My brother has been using his atrix for tethering via the APN setting for about the last 7 weeks, and he received an email and txt message telling him that tethering was not allowed without a tethering plan. Email explained that if he continued, they would automatically add the tethering plan to his account.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] knigitz:
Play dumb. What recourse would they have?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jaketc:
They bill u an extra $15 or 20$ a month, depending on your current plan, and you lose unlimited data.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
You mean "and" you lose unlimited data.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mviana:
What Simba501 said just happened to me today. I received an email 2 days ago and just got a text message 20 minutes ago that said the following:

We've noticed you're continuing to enjoy the tethering feature with your smartphone. Your plan has been updated to a tethering plan and you'll soon see this change reflected on an upcoming billing statement. Visit att.com/dataplans or call 866-679-7118.

After I called and spoke with Ms. Kinman for about 15 minutes the gist of the conversation was this:

We notified you that in April 2011 we noticed that you were tethering. We said that you could keep your unlimited data plan if you did not tether again. Our network detected that you were tethering in August 2011 and now we are changing your plan. We don't have to tell you how we detected that you were tethering because we are not required by law. Our network information is proprietary. And there is no way that our network can be wrong about detecting you were tethering. There is nothing that you can do about this. i hope you have a nice rest of your day.

That was an abridged version of the conversation. They apparently are not messing around. Still not sure how they detected me tethering.

M
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gammite:
what device were u tethering with in april that they contacted you about. if i recall correctly there were targeting iphone users then?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mviana:
iPhone 3GS that was jailbroken with MyWi. Now I'm using an ATRIX 4g running the Alien ROM with the included tethering hack.

I'm calling At&t again today to verify if they have "seen" me tethering me in any other months besides August.

M
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lurchbyrep:
The idea that ATT is only targeting unlimited data plans is obsolete and needs to be abandoned. There are way too many of us with only 2gb plans that have been served.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gammite:
how many folks that have been notified had iphones before???
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] erraz:
Who is still tethering and have you received any additional warnings?
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
My GF is still tethering. She hasn't received anything else....yet. I'd expect it to be a delayed thing anyway.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ChumleyEX:
mmmhmmmmm
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jake.perkinsr:
tethering detection is easy, i'm guessing they simply look at the TTL of the packet
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] recurringintensity:
a brief history

it begins:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-Comcast-Throttling-System-Should-Be-100-Online-100015

almost a year later: (caught in the act!)

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/comcast_caught_filtering_bittorrent_and_lying_about_it

&

admittance of guilt:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...s-16-million-at-p2p-throttling-settlement.ars

So to conclude, lets take a moment to take a lesson from history and see if you can guess will happen soon after this...

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/09/att-throttling-warnings/

I'm sure some of you can start to see a pattern here
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] knlgSeeker:
I got served late september.. I used to tether on a regular basis to do remote work on databases. Didnt really download much. I called after receiving the letter and told them someone else had been accessing my phone & may or may not have been tethering. I got to keep my unlimited plan, but it sucks not being able to tether if I need to. Wouldn't be so bad if at&t had a real 4G network.. an extra $45/month and being capped at 4GB is not an option
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] antuus:
Erm... it's actually an extra $15 per month isn't it? Unlim data is $30 + $15 would bring you up to the $45 4gb + tether plan.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
Correct....
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gammite:
i am really beginning to think that the folks getting pegged previously had iphones.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
Not me. Or my GF.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Cole28:
I got an email and have never owned an iPhone. I did tether though but they said I have been tethering for months. The only time I tethered was in July when we visited my wife's parents, and I didn't have there wifi password for webtop.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Phoneguy589:
Did you just get the email? Also...has anyone ever updated their media link? I always click remind me later. I haven't tethered in a while but I have used my lapdock a few times. Are you using a ROM that has the hotspot built in and if so what ROM.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jaketc:
So u can verify you're tethering was not wifi hot spot, but webtop over 3g and they detected that?

I have used usb, wifi tethering, AND webtop over 3g. So not sure which one was detected.

Aura rom here.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jaketc:
IPhone and /or unlimited data being any factor at all is debunked.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Simba501:
Yep -_-

......
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] stewartsoda:
THIS.

Are you sure that it was from the webtop? Are you sure somebody didn't use your wifi hotspot while you were using webtop?

I think there are a whole lot of people who are dying to know the answer to this question: Can you definitively say that it was the webtop usage over 3g that caused you to get busted? Have you EVER tethered anything else?