yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] Crey23:
+1

Listen all....lets get off the high and mighty horse of pure testing because I would bet that no one, not even CM himself is getting to the point where he is taking this to a "sterile" Lab. So let's not get such a purist mentality, otherwise we would be still blowing smoke up our asses to communicate! :D

The truth is that some people have see difference in the performance of radios post flashing, myself included. I ran a series of test, within a period of one hour in three different locations with guides for repeatability, and I can tell you I did see differences in dBm, some were positive and some were not too great, but at least I did my own testing on my own rig, under my own specifications and requirements, and thus landed the best radio for me, and as some say PERIOD!

With that said, I agree that you should not be messing around with things that you have no idea, and that some people flash a rom or a radio and start *****ing about battery and signal strength without an iota of methodology or baselines...just feel.

Don't get me wrong, I am still not sure on rils, and the effect of having them or not. right now I am running (.16) with the stock rils from Ultimate Droid ROM, and I am getting great results when there is signal (ie improvements in throughput, but not necessarily signal strength). I used to get about 6.5 mB/s avg on Wifi, now I'm averaging 11.7mb/s, with max of 14. something... My network (tmous) speeds went from maxin on average 2.2mb/s to now in the 2.9/3.1 range in the same location, roughly at the same time. So there is an argument to the various radios providing different responses.

So let's keep the discussion on topic. Instead of trying to negate a result based on "facts", lets instead discuss an adequate testing method, so that the mases can perform it and report back their results. And always take those with a grain of salt.

My methodology:

1. Pick 3 spots in a near by area

- center of house on solid surface

- by the window on solid surface

- by window in hand

2. Test each location 5 times, allowing 5 to 10 secs between readings and take average.

3. Flash a new radio

4. Repeat test

5. if more radios to test go back to #2, otherwise document results and share.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] G1ForFun:
So a sense radio comes with vanilla froyo? Hmm, I think maybe you were searching for "sense compatible".
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] BRad Barnett:
Actually, at no point in time did I say that htc_ril was causing *any* trouble with *any* radio. Never. Not once.

I did say that htc_ril was causing rild to segfault, since it was compiled for a sense UI, and therefore missing symbols rild expected in a non-sense UI htc_ril library.

That's a fact. Period.

At no point in time did I state, that no other radio could be used with the various ril libraries. Never.

What I *did* state, and what I did research, is that there is a possibility that other radios COULD have issues when not matched with the appropriate htc_ril libraries. Anyone that has ever worked with firmwares *knows* that the API can change, and htc_ril is therefore potentially matched to the radio version.

The funny thing? This very thread was started WITH that premise!

While I did not state what you claim above, about the radio, I did certainly do research. Clearly, much more than you.

I talked to experts.

Scotty2 (the lad that gave us root), and others, spent *considerable* time looking at that radio. They *do* know what is in radio.img. They went over EVERY BIT.

Scotty2 seemed positive that there was a possibility of what I described above.

Have you talked to anyone that spent months with their heads examining the radio? Did they back up their statements in the bugtracker?
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] BRad Barnett:
This test is instantly invalidated, by the fact that different radios could report dB differently. Easily.

I see though, that at least you are attempting to do something in a methodical way. The only problem is, that since the radio reports the dB level to you, and you just flashed a new radio... you can't be sure it's even reporting the same way it was!
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] Ninj:
Alright, although it's not easy to come in the middle of a war and ask about the weather, i'll try.

I did read every bit of this thread so far. It's very interesting, even though most of it seems pointless to me, as nobody here is a GSM scientist :) Whatever... i had a question.

Before to flash any radio, i had what i would call an "average signal quality", i mean compared to my friends often in the same room (house, work, restaurants).

Particularly, i can for sure say that i had constantly signal loss while walking in my tvroom and in my office stairs (first floor). That may not be scientific, but that's the way it is, it was constant, sure, only not "proven".

After flashing some RUU (to get root then Virtuous and all that stuff), in which process probably some radio were flashed, i got really, absolutely clearly, a great signal reception improvement. No GSM emitter or white chamber drastic tests here, sorry, but i could ALWAYS keep my calls while going through my tvroom (i could NEVER, before), and the same in these stairs. Also, the places where the voice quality was ALWAYS droping were not a problem anymore. Only remained some usual signal desert, like the elevators.

That was GREAT.

I'm running Virtuous (Sense ROM) on a Desire Z, in France.

BUT (yeah, the story wouldn't be interesting without a "but"), the speeds were crappy, and catching the wifi became clearly a problem (same place, 4 months of catching perfectly my Wifi, and after the flash, it could sometimes take up to 1 minute, and i had some Wifi signal loss, without reason). I'm speaking about a 4-month experience, home, sitting on the same chair, with no problem ever until then.

So, to get back some good speeds and my wifi, i tried different radios... without success!

The problem is, i can't find any good radio anymore: since i flashed the first one to get back my speeds and wifi, my signal sucks, calls hangup randomly, the battery drains about 2x faster (around 16h now against 36h before), and all that appeared precisely just after i flashed the first radio. I tried 3 other ones after. I finished with the aussie one, which i still run (.27). I always matched the libs, as it was advised at this time. Lately, i used the auto ril patcher.

The question is: what should i try now? I can barely find some 3G (always in GPRS now, or EDGE, even in my office where i always had great HSDPA signal, and very fast page loading), my calls hangup, the signal will drop alone sometimes for one minute...

I know i'm not testing that stuff the scientific way but look, honestly, there's no need here, it's much worse than it was.

Thank you for help and suggestion, it will be much appreciated, and sorry for my english :)
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] Vlad83:
You're back peddling and causing confusion.

Whats your point? The problem stems from the lib so the chain of of events are irrelevant. Statements such as

Clearly state that we are in agreement in regards to libs. So then we move onto your next quote:

Is also false due to the following statements:

Right... that was the premise of my argument. Maybe if you would read more carefully... Let me quote my self:

No kidding? Really? You made me see the light...

Only if you were to read my posts completely.

On a side note, your vast experience of firmwares should make you very well aware the potential impact they may have on hardware... say a radio. Back when I was playing with Nokias this was evident, how long have you had a phone? Christmas gift?

Listen, props to Scotty, he knows his stuff. But once again, at what point did I contest potential problems? Your reading comprehension rivals a high school kid. This entire time I am trying to convey to you that some of your points are valid but you can't make such strong statements. There are way too many dots missing for you to make that connection. You emphatically post against flashing any radio besides T-Mo which prompted me to voice my opinion to begin with... only for you to backtrack and say

Also, I wonder why Steve didn't chime in on your bug report? I wonder why he is using the 26.04.02.17 radio... I guess he must like the signal drops...
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] BRad Barnett:
I have not changed my stance. Not once. It is unfortunate that you find yourself confused..

My point? You're making incorrect assertions that a radio/ril lib mismatch cause a documented crash .. which, of course, it did not. rild crashed. You misread all of my posts, misunderstood what I stated, then when refuted on that point -- claim it's meaningless.

It isn't, and the point? You're not even sure what we're talking about.

Sigh. More insults. Unable to keep it civil, eh?

This is getting to be quite meaningless. Let me ask you something, do you know what context is?

You know, context?

Let me ask you something else. Do you know bongd? Have you read many of his posts? Did you read his posts in this thread?

Well, let me give you a hint... and let's look at things in context:

Originally Posted by martx So lets say I flashed the new AUS radio, flashed the matchmaker for the libhtc, radio didn't work out, and flashed back to stock radio. Would you still have the wrong libhtc?

Sent from a rock
​

Originally Posted by bongd I think it depends on where you downloaded it. If the radio has the appropriate libs then you'd be good to go. I'd run rmk40's automatic matching program just to be on the safe side. It's worked great for me.
​

Please see my post. This myth needs to be dispelled. You are *not* ok switching radios, in fact, everyone needs to be running a t-mobile radio right now, with CM (and other non-Sense UI roms).

Now, who are these users? Are these alpha testers? Are these experienced users? Or, are these users being duped into trying a new radio, based upon wild claims of stability, tested use, and strange assertions of double the battery life?

This whole time we've been talking, you seem to missing this point. Those users NEED TO USE THE STOCK T-MOBILE RADIO. Bongd and martx wandered into a place they should not be -- with fancy installers, making their radio change as easy as pie. Worse, that installer installed versions of the ril libraries that CREATE A KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED CRASH.

In this VERY THREAD, users were experiencing crashes due to those ril libraries, installed by that installer.

That's all meaningless to you, though. Instead, you'd rather quote me out of context, eh?

Again, the only time anyone should use other radios is if you want to be an alpha tester. Certainly, I wouldn't want to see a *single bug report* against the CM bugtracker, without a specific radio... related to battery life, dropped calls, etc.

However, most of your posts have been you running in, and *defending* people who advocate not just the average user -- who won't flash a nightly even! -- but even new users to use other radios!

That seems to be your goal here, since all you do is continually complain that I've told users to stop using other radios.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] tan-ce:
I really really hope you'll bear with me, I just want make sure I understand you absolutely right: Suppose I'm running a non-sense ROM. Then I flash a radio & libs (lets say the latest 12.50.60.24_26.08.04.16) which I assume is a Sense radio, since it came from a HTC test ROM. Now, when I run "adb logcat *:E", and I turn of my screen, and back again -- I should expect to see a SIGSEGV thrown by rild, correct?
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] BRad Barnett:
The radio is meaningless, in terms of this particular crash. The crash is caused by rild, trying to use symbols which are missing in a Sense UI based libhtc_ril.so. You can see that crash here, and read more info here:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=12101559&postcount=110
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] tnpapadakos:
+1

so, the question is, "is there a correlation between radios and rils?" i would say yes

otherwise, i dont think there would be different rils for different radios and roms

also, i can't help but wonder that if the rom devs such as team cyanogen and others have found it necessary to remove the sense-based rils from their AOSP-based roms and replace them with the AOSP-based rils, there must be a logical reason

just sayin

i, for one, have continued to watch this thread in case there's a breakthrough of some sort. i hope there is, i love user-discovered improvement tweaks. but i have tried the ril switching method outlined here, and have not noticed any noticeable benefit. that, coupled with the ongoing debate made me decide to go back to the cyanogen rom's chosen rils and tmo radio on my glacier since i'm using the cyanogen rom
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] BRad Barnett:
The original intent of this thread is meaningless, since using unmatched libraries, which rild isn't compiled for, can cause a crash.

Stick with the ril libraries that come with your rom.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] Crey23:
While I cannot say I agree regarding the crashing part, as I have tested 3 radios with "matching rils" and no crashes, I do have to say that in las t setup, I have not matched rils, and the radios (.16) work flawlessly on my UD ROM.

I'm not sure that flashing radios is good for all, but we all know that radios do affect signal strength and reception. This is evident with the first wave of G2 came out...TMO, sent an OTA a month after launch with a new radio that stopped dropped calls, and provided better signal overall.

I don't know enough about rils, libs, radios, or the system in general to go toe to toe with each of your arguments, all I can say is that I have benefited greatly from flashing multipple radios. My Cell and wifi signal speeds have improved. I am getting signal where I was gettting minimal to none before, So as unscientific as that may be, the end result has improved my experience with my device, and that is good enough for me.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] tan-ce:
Right. Believe it or not, I actually understand that you meant the segfault is caused by a mismatch between rild and libhtc_ril.so, but perhaps it's my fault for not emphasizing that I flashed the radio and pushed the libs, which I assume are Sense libs (without recompiling my rild with HTC's proprietary header files, of course).

I know the crash is reported and well documented, I am just curious as to what I need to do to reproduce the error, because I haven't seen it yet (I retried with "adb logcat *:D"). And if it's not because of something I understood wrong, it suggests to me that, at least, there is some element of "your mileage may vary" to this issue. (Granted, I am not running one of the latest CM nightlies.)

I was following this thread fairly closely because it was interesting, because I was learning things, and because if I could get better performance from my phone - all the better. I hope this doesn't end now just because of a heated argument.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] schaggo:
I had another idea, regarding me posting that the radios distributed with the sense-less G2 ROM as well as with the Sense-equipped 1.34.405 RUU are identical.

Why do we assume that one radio revision bases on a lets say modified lower version? There could be different radio branches.

There could be mixed-environment radios/libs as well as Sense-only radios/libs. Since a certain radio/lib/rild combination made the whole thing crash, I assume that must have been a Sense-only package used on an ASOP/Sense-less ROM. While the 26.02.whatever seems to work in either ROM, it could be a "universal" radio of a different branch, exposing everything (or most the things) Sense needs and provides all non-Sense/ASOP functionality as well. Just an idea, no testing or evidence. Just let my thoughts a little loose on some booze :p
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] rmk40:
Not getting into the debate over whether or not matching is useful. I have, however, updated our auto matcher and created a new thread dedicated to the patch itself.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1021463

Cheers.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] TheNewGuy:
I have noticed recently when updating to the newest radio that I had to change some of my build. Prop settings relating to the ril files. I have tested many many settings and many radio's and ril file combos myself and found what I feel gives me the best results. Then when I switched to the newest radio my speeds and ping time was not as good. So I tried some more testing and found that a completely different set of settings gives me my same speed same ping time(maybe a bit better) and gives the better band switch others have noticed with this new radio. I don't think my settings will help everyone but I wanted to give people hope that just cause you flash a new radio and initially it is not as good doesn't mean that you can't make it better.

I waited about 5 days to make this post so that I was sure it wasn't a fluke.... but your milage my vary!

also I have never had a problem with testing any of the ro. ril settings... so give it a shot.... if you dare!!!!!! lol

maybe we can still figure out what the heck all the unused settings available in the different ril files actually do!
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] tutech:
Which lines in the build.prop exactly, and what did you change them to?
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] TheNewGuy:
ro.ril.hsxpa=3
ro.ril.gprsclass=29
ro.ril.hep=1
ro.ril.enable.dtm=1
ro.ril.hsdpa.category=11
ro.ril.enable.a53=1
ro.ril.enable.3g.prefix=1
ro.ril.htcmaskw1=14449
ro.ril.hsupa.category=3

and I switched from GSM auto prl to WCDMA preferred...

I used to get better results with GSM auto prl....

these are the settings as I have them right now.... but as I said I believe it is a matter of testing to see what is best for you.

also there are many more. have you looked at the google doc attached in the first post? also I attached a script in the first couple pages that will show you all the available settings for your ril file currently installed.. (also you can use adb to run the script and copy/paste all the options into your build. prop) that way you don't have to write them all out.. just put a # in front of the ones you don't want the phone to read...

many people will dispute these settings as being optimal... but just experiment and have fun! they worked for me! (so far) lol

I have messed with almost every available ril-related setting in the build.prop and none have caused a brick or bootloop.... so you should be fine..... but it's not my fault if.........

one more thing. there is an app in the market called "prop editor" that makes it easier to mod the build.prop..

happy hunting ;-)

EDIT: the app is not on the market so here it is...
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] jwzg:
Guys, I'd rather not have to close down the thread. Keep it civil and keep testing.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] Ninj:
What's the easiest way to flash a .img file if i have no eng hboot ?

I heard about fastboot command, but i don't have that (maybe it's easy to grab and install), and is it the easiest way?

Thanks!
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] lainvalenajr:
Find Joemm's radio thread and download the radio of your choice... It should already be in a PC10IMG. zip and you just flash it through the boot loader. His thread better explains so you should check it out
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] blast0id:
PC10IMG.ZIP = easiest way, by far... that is the only way for me these days =) call me lazy... whatever... haha
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] nemiroG1:
Has any work been done with the new(est) .30 radio? I tried looking around, but did not find anything. Thanks!
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] xsteven77x:
I'm kinda sad that this thread died off. I wish we could have gotten a definitive conclusion on this whole mess.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] popimp315:
They have the rils for the 30. I've only tested it once. It worked and then I did something and it messed up.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] nemiroG1:
Do you have a link to them? I looked the other day, and could not find anything. Thanks!
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] dyndragon:
Just download the ROM and get them out of the zip

http://forum.androidcentral.com/g2-...veloper-only-htc-vision-gingerbread-leak.html
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] bombadier:
Whats the general consensus about this matching rils malarkey,am posting here looking for some enlightenment,what is the significance of this file gsm.version.ril-impl in relation to the updating of libhtc_ril.so,libreference-ril.so and libril.so?Why is it that people are saying they cant update their rils because the value returned by getprop "gsm.version.ril-impl" isnt right for some reason.

A concise answer from someone would be much appreciated.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] pfak:
Why do it the other way? Then you have to restart twice, and for no real reason.

No, I don't think you need to wipe /cache.

If you look at the spreadsheet that I linked in the first post, it shows a list of what various RILs support what options.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] rhcp011235:
Nice find. I shall test this in the am.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] TheNewGuy:
I was referring to all the ril options that are currently not set in any build.prop... there was a thread and post made by CM in his own site that said he didn't know what they all did but that you could try them out and see if it helped. I have also noticed some new options since I looked last, either from the new radio or the new libhtc_ril....I am not sure.

You can see them all by renaming the attached script to "rilinfo.sh" copying this script to /system/lib then cd to the system/lib dir and with root permissions running the script.

I know for a fact that at least some of these undefined settings that are not on your list do in fact work. although some of them may be controlled by the provider and undoubtedly need to match the providers capability's for optimal performance.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] tnpapadakos:
that, i believe, is the main issue with alot of them, and some of those would not be desirable, i think...here is a thread i started awhile ago in cmforum attempting to compile a list of meanings for the different ro.ril settings; i actually emailed HTC to get some direction, and they responded that those meanings are "proprietary" and essentially we're on our own trying to figure them out
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] pfak:
The script you provided is exactly how I generate my spreadsheet, so it's impossible that the values differ from what is actually supported on the RIL and Radio combination.
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] TheNewGuy:
What's up man! I remember you from all your great colorized nightlys. I didn't notice it was you who started that thread... but yes that is the thread I was referring to..

Have you noticed the new options that I have? I guess they are from the new libhtc_ril because that is what the script is checking.. we need to do some more work on this.. maybe put a call out for an htc employee who wants to release some info...

Any way I am still experimenting but I have no more info for your list.. its good to know you are still working on it!
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] tnpapadakos:
we need a mole:eek:
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] pfak:
I received the following private message:
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] amazinglarry311:
flashable zip containing the ril libs G2/Desire Z only:

View attachment ril-libs-signed.zip

Tom, good to see you buddy. (-stevo from the cm forums)
[G2 and Desire Z Android Development] G1ForFun:
Nice! Can't wait to hear all the feedback. Now these ril libs are for the latest AUS radio???