yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
You bet! When MS advertised WP7 as update heavy and a feature, they will piss off a lot of ppl when the don't fulfill it. Blame the offender not the offended.
[Windows Phone 7 General] PG2G:
Where on earth did that come from? lol

It's a bad thing because this isn't that important. To sit here crying about it is ridiculous. I don't have a problem with complaining about it, but the OP acts like Microsoft just stole his chick or something.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I suppose we all are exactly alike and what is important to you is what's important to everyone else. That's the philosophy of a dictator. They have no room for the cares and concerns of others. If something isn't important to them, it can't be important to anyone else.

You bet it IS important. Nobody is crying either. We are socializing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] PG2G:
Wow, so serious.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
Oh my goodness you moron.

Here, allow me to explain it you, because since it's been posted in 400 other threads, you're obviously not understanding:

NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE CONTENT OF THE UPDATE

WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IS MICROSOFT'S DEDICATION TO THE PLATFORM

AT THIS POINT, THEY ARE STARTING TO DO WHAT EVERYONE SAID THEY WOULD: SCREW IT ALL UP.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bleak Morn:
Except that people tend to look at the reasons for being offended and seeing if it makes sense.

I'm eagerly awaiting my WP7 phone. Honestly I'm glad to see MS taking the time to test the update process for people who already have them - then taking the time to get things right.

Since I'll have NoDo on the 20th (supposedly it's stock) my hope is that everyone else is updated at the same time (MS has always done this with Xbox and Zune) to avoid fragmentation.

Hopefully carriers won't get in the way of that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] radeon_x:
Oh the irony. Actually this entire forum is overflowing with irony. Windows Phone 7 is marketed by Microsoft as a tool to use your phone LESS. And yet being on XDA sort of implies that you're a phone geek and so you probably use your phone MORE, doesn't it? I think so. Which puts Microsoft in a bit of a tough spot, because who do they cater to really? The phone geeks or the target market who are not really looking for an all powerful Android clone? Most WP7 users probably have no idea that an update is coming let alone have the time to be pissed that it's a few weeks late.

Just sayin'
[Windows Phone 7 General] PG2G:
There are a lot of hands that touch these updates. You can't really question Microsoft's dedication without knowing what's going on behind the scenes.

That said, in this model Microsoft is ultimately responsible. I think we just need to understand that what they are trying to do is much more difficult than what Apple and Google have to do. Hopefully they learn a lot from this process and adjust for future updates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bleak Morn:
So your complaint is that you bought vaporware and your hopes have yet to materialize? Hmm...

MS delivers on their promises, and if they aren't on time the extra effort they put in has been evident when I've seen the final products.

What's best for me is that MS gets it right - not that they meet an arbitrary deadline that someone pulled out of their vent.

I have yet to see a coherent argument as to why it's a big deal if it launches on the 15th vs. the 31st. It's just a mobile device, people. Relax. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
Well to me, part of that dedication would be to keep the lines of communication open.

"we heard about the rumours, they aren't true"

"we're having problems with one last OEM before it's released", etc

It's 2011, interaction with customers like that is a given now, not a novel idea. And with a brand new platform, you would think that they'd want to step up their game.
[Windows Phone 7 General] PG2G:
Yeah, but you can't exactly go throwing your partners under the bus either.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sirandrew:
Perhaps you should bail and come back after WP7 is out of 'early-adopter' status..?
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Listen, I don't mean to get all uppity and stuff, but it bugs the **** out of me when ppl apply their values to everyone else. To some ppl a stamp collection is just stamps. To others a painting is just decoration. But there are ppl who value those things and there are ppl who value other things. Please just take a step back and put yourself in our shoes. Just consider that if it's a big deal to us, then it's a big deal. Don't minimalize what someone values. You would not want anyone minimalizing what you value.

Beyond this, I apologize for my remarks to anyone feeling offended.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Zedox:
Seriously people. Seriously. SERIOUSLY!!! It's actually getting annoying. Yes, this is a discussion and I will discuss why I think this is dumb.

1st: Who has more to lose with these updates? Us or Microsoft? I'm pretty sure Microsoft wants to keep their customers happy, so I'm sure they are working very hard to get this update out and WORKING CORRECTLY. Do you know how hard it is to get something this complex to work on the first try? And it didn't even work on the first try (with pre-NoDo), so they have to find the problem (which apparently doesn't seem like it's theirs but it could be so I won't saying anything else. Don't say to put more people to work on it, as according to Fred Brooke's Law (if you're in the computer science realm) you know adding more people to a problem near the end of the project delays it.

2nd: Stop relying on rumors, guess what, they are rumors for a reason. Yes, the website said "January-Update", well guess what, it doesn't say January anymore because it wasn't correct. Someone jumped the gun, and it was fixed because guess what? It wasn't true. It happens. People who work on the website aren't usually the ones who are in charge of actually putting out the update. Miscommunication happens, that's why that's the number one problem in software engineering.

3rd: Ballmer did say the first 2 weeks in March. Yesterday, they announced that it was delayed. So guess what? It was delayed ONCE, OFFICIALLY. Microsoft said Q1 of March, the end of March is still Q1. If it's delayed, it's delayed.

4th: Do you want an update to run smoothly or have a high possibility of it messing up? Granted, it still may mess up but hopefully it will be smooth and that is the reason why it's delayed. They want a good experience when it's updated, aka, you just get the update.

5th: This "principal" thing...seriously. It's the principal? How about they principally put it out now and have a huge amount of phones brick or something? Would you be happy because they kept their word?

Final: I think alot of people just need to chill out. If this is affecting your business, you're not a good businessman/woman, you have to be weary of such missing stuff and how it could affect your bottom line. Stop reading every, well don't stop reading, but stop believing everything. When it comes out, it comes out. After it comes out, you'll say you got it and prolly not even care in two days and then "we'll" be talking about how far it is for multitasking and/or next update stuff. Vicious cycle.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tanneji:
After coming from a Captivate where the Froyo arrived 9 months after Google released it, I am not too concerned. I would say they still have another oh 6 months before I get pissed. Also, Microsoft confirmed that they were intending to release it on the 7th originally. That's good enough for me. It means that somewhere along the line either they or ATT found something that needed a little more work. Take the time to get it right. I love my WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Zedox:
Sorry for the rant...just getting tired of seeing this on every forum, blog, site, etc...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bleak Morn:
If your Mom says she's going to bake cookies for after dinner, and after dinner they're still in the oven, do you pull them out and gulp down the plasma cookie-dough, or do you stay frosty, wait a little bit, and enjoy the cookies when they're done? :D

...and I know MartyLK's answer - you stomp your feet and declare that you'll never eat another cookie again as long as you live! ;)

Everyone is going to think this thread was so silly two weeks from now when you all have your NoDo update. :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
Good point. It's a fine line.

Honestly they wouldn't have to disclose anything, just be openly communicating about it.

"we're aware what the rumours said. But there were some issues", etc
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
No, I'll be equally happy with my already perfectly functional device and still question where Microsoft stands in their mobile OS practice.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Knochen1981:
Funny. I will not update until a New way to sideload apps is out :) copy and Paste Nice to have but i like customizing More :) i have lots of custom tiles, ringones, Accent Colors and... So i have to agree that no one cares if you switch.

Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] ErikWithNoC:
To the people that keep saying "would you rather have an update now and mess up, or wait for one that works" I point my finger at the pre-NoDo update. That basic update still screwed up phones. Microsoft has had more than 4 months to work on this update and their not even adding much! There are very few WP7 devices now, and I'm assuming each manufacturer uses the same drivers for each of their handsets so that makes like 4 variations (Samsung, Dell, LG and HTC) for Microsoft to work with. Soon Nokia will be joining the foray along with other manufacturers and they will have to work on more phones. They have delayed this update for what reasons? I thought Microsoft was a "great" software company yet they can't manage to get an update out for their phones new mobile OS? Apple has released like 2-3 updates since the launch of WP7, one that overhauled the javascript engine for Safari (which I assume is more work than copy and paste) and they already have most major software things covered so they don't need to be playing catch up like Microsoft does.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikeeam:
Agreed. Apple releases it real fast, and with remarkable features; even if simple, they are great and useful, like hotspot.

And Apple is deadly fast when it turns about bugs (like 4.0.2 and pdf).

Yeah, Apple took 2 years to release Copy n Paste. But MS doen't have that luxury, they are not alone in the market. They are competing with iPhone and Androids (wich is updated every, I don't know, 3 months?!).

I'm not complaining because I WANT COPY AND PASTE OMGBBQ. It's because the careless from MS. Like they could do that. WP7 is in the exactly same spot that it was 1 year ago. 6 months since launch and all we got is some bricked phones by a test update and delays and more delays.

Yes, we can be greed, because while we are waiting for some "No Donuts (indeed)", Android's users are almost getting their Ice Creams, ready for summer.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Android really isnt a fair comparison because google doesnt give a damn about updating handsets. While Android-Ice cream will be released I wouldn't be shocked if the nexus S was the only current device to receive the update. It's just another terrible update that will glorify just how fragmented they are.
[Windows Phone 7 General] jeffgeno:
There aren't just 4 phones. That's the problem. Some Samsung phones worked and some didn't. When people looked into it they saw that they were using 4 or 5 different firmware versions on a single device. Microsoft may have tested what they thought were all the revisions and things started blowing up in their faces when the update rolled out. I really can't see how this is anyone but Samsung's fault. No other explanation makes sense.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikeeam:
Of course, I agree too. But they work on their OS. With the time that MS takes to update, is the same **** as Google and fragmented OS problem. 1 year = 1 update? 2 updates and your hardware is just a stone from another era.

You can easily live with Google updates and custom ROM with 2 years time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ErikWithNoC:
Except that Microsoft has had more than 4 months to work on this. They knew who their manufacturers were going to be before they launched WP7 and they should have been able to work with the manufacturers. It is their fault for not properly creating software that could work on WP7 phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] El Mono:
It may be frustrating to wait for an update, but what is the alternative? When I had an HTC Hero it seemed to take forever to get the 2.1 update, and it did. I switched to the Galaxy S and waited for Kies to offer the 2.2 update, and waited... Finally, thanks to this website I updated it myself following the directions provided (and Odin). So this is no surprise.

Disappointment aside, there is no alternative to me because I like this phone/os enough that I am willing to wait. Android is great but looks are "underwhelming" compared to WP7. Just my opinion.

El Mono
[Windows Phone 7 General] vel0city1:
I love me some plasma cookies. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
I don't recall this URL and there is no hint of it on google, maybe you saw what you wanted to see...

Are you thinking of Windows Phone Developer Tools January Update?
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
The URL did say january_update. It was taken down later on that day but it was there. However it was just a URL, no indication on the page.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
Why would they release an update before the developers tools?
[Windows Phone 7 General] cbebop7:
@cry babies

WP7 was launched in the last week of Oct 2010 in Europe and first week of Nov in USA, so its still less than 5 months since launch (as of 10th Mar11).

MS never said the update was going to come in January, all they said was early 2010, and its still just ~70 days into 2011.

Comparing MS phone updates to Apple is plain wrong. They just have 1 phone and a huge leverage with the carriers atleast in USA; MS cant just ignore the carriers. Also comparing MS updates for Windows on the PC is again wrong since they have direct control over PCs with no Carriers or OEMs to think about. Also Windows Update is now almost 12 years old while the update process for WP7 is just in its infancy with Carriers and OEMs in the way.

//end of rant
[Windows Phone 7 General] eternalemb:
+1. I'm stone cold chillin until the update comes out and someone cracks it. Got a long wait ahead, I reckon.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
very simple dont buy samsung phones.... if you do then dont blame MS, how can you blame MS when they sent the updates to OEM partners to test and then to the TELCO's....

HTC and the rest of the OEM partners do not have any issues

u just dont like MS right....
[Windows Phone 7 General] lip:
I had someone from MS Canada tell me straight out that it was basically ready to roll in December and we would probably see it in January...

If they were releasing a bunch of new features to rock our world this would be one thing but they are releasing something that they initially didn't even plan on going with, cut and paste....woo hoo...on top of that they have made it faster opening apps...that's great but not a feature

I'd be satisfied to tell you the truth with official tethering as then I can push wp7 at my work but since they don't seem to care about this, I guess the iphone is my future...
[Windows Phone 7 General] paramnesya:
I am an Android-user, W7-admirer, so maybe I just have a warped perspective.. But I don't understand what you mean by 'what Microsoft is trying to do' being more difficult than what Apple and Google have to do? What is Microsoft trying to do? I genuinely don't understand; maybe I've missed something, though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Over8ted:
Wow, you guys are not patient at all. You think maybe they're working to solve the bugs and maybe, I dunno, give you a better experience? Sit tight and stop *****ing, you're being absolutely ridiculous. It's like complaining that an Android app isn't being updated. I've seen childish, but you guys take the cake of being the most ingrateful nerds I have ever seen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] The Gate Keeper:
for apple, they have 1 phone, and don't give a rip about the carriers. so they when they're ready to release the updates, they release it.

for google, they only code for the base of their OS and they release it, they don't do anything else. they get their own base going and that's it. then all the OEMs have to do their own stuff on top for all their products, and then carriers pitch in after that. Google might have released their update at one point, OEMs took like 3 to 6 months for their bit, and then carriers on top of that. the issue with this is that Google could pump out the next version before your phone even gets updated, as demonstrated by the Samsung Galaxy S, so many people were (and still are) stuck on Android 2.1, whilst 2.3 is already out in the wild and has been for some time. And I know some who have been promised updates when they bought their phone and never ever received them because either the OEM didn't want to update, or the carrier didn't, so they bought a phone thinking it was cheap but never got an update. i do know that google help out the OEMs with their stuff, but that is already after the release of the update, not before.

for microsoft, they actually are involved from start to end. they test the update, they give it to OEMs to test as well as carriers. then they tell MS what needs to be fixed up, and if they need longer delay on the update. they can take particular phones and carrier phones so that they don't have to stop everyone. all of this goes back up to MS and MS roles out the update for everyone. this is definitely the longest of the three update methods between the three methods looked at as it involves MS, OEMs and carriers working together. so yes, whilst it may appear like the update has been ready since december, which is probably has been, there is a lot of processes involved and who knows why they delayed on this update, but at least after a few iterations of this, everyone involved (MS, OEMs, carriers, and even us) will have all the kinks out and it will work pretty smooth.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Yeah...you need to step back and give our position a little consideration. If MS would issue progress updates...notifications on the state of WP7...this **** wouldn't happen. But no, MS wants this to happen because they don't say anything about it to anyone. They just keep absolutely quiet. They know what to expect if that's how they want to conduct business. And no matter what anyone says, it will happen this way.

When all it would take is letting the users know what the hell is happening, this would calm the crowds. ***** at MS for not doing even the slightest damn thing to please its customers. Don't ***** at us.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tim.Smith:
Anyone that types "M$" is a huge douchebag.
[Windows Phone 7 General] 2GStyle:
And here I thought MS informing us the patch will be coming late March because they wanted to make sure it was 100% was letting us know something.....
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
That's not really being very objective, now, is it? You don't seem to be considering all the time between launch of the system and that statement. To be objective, you can't be biased against one or the other. You would consider the view point of both and how each feels. If you truly consider how we, the users, feel, you would see that MS doesn't do anything needful for eliminating the issue. I've also considered that MS may have its hands full trying to produce quality updates for us, but as time goes by and their continued silence, I lose patience and think this might be another "Kin".
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Thank you for your thoroughly thought out insight, I'm sure that comment put a severe strain on your mental capacity or lack thereof.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bleak Morn:
Meh, not really much of an insult against MS. As a shareholder I sure hope they're trying to make a ton of money for me.

Seriously, which mobile provider/maufacturer out there is altruistic and doesn't have profit as a motive? Apple? Google? :rolleyes:

Phil Donahue getting schooled on "Greed" (YouTube)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ErikWithNoC:
No, if I want to buy a Samsung phone that is supposed to have all the same features/better features then I will buy the Samsung phone. Microsoft says that updates will come for all devices so I'm not going to just say "I won't buy Samsung phones."

I will blame MS for the update problems (along with Samsung). You don't think Microsoft has a version of every current WP7 device at their testing facility/wherever? As they develop these updates they test them and I'm sure they send them to OEM's afterwards, but they have to test it in house as well. I will also restate what I said before. Microsoft has had more than 4 months to be testing basic updates on these phones. That should be an ample amount of time for them to make sure the updates are working. I thought this whole "strict set of guidelines for hardware" was supposed to help with the updates because they would all be the same, but I guess that isn't working. So either Samsung didn't follow the guidelines or Microsoft did something wrong.

Also, I realize Apple has fewer devices (technically 4 because they have the iPod Touch, iPad, iPhone, and older devices which need a different version of the firmware) allowing them to release updates quicker, but they released 2-3 updates since Microsoft launched WP7. One device or not, Microsoft should he ashamed for not getting an update out sooner.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Especially if they are the biggest software giant on Earth.

We should experience nothing less but miracles from such wealthy and experienced company.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Not miracles but adhering to their own schedule would be quite nice.
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
u just don’t like MS huh... if Samsung have different firmware on every batch of their phones, it’s there problem to test the update on each batch of devices....

MS will pass on the partners to test and if Samsung screw it up its Samsung’s fault....

so if you buy Samsung device it’s your fault...

i think Samsung is taking WP7 as android....
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
All I know is I have offered on many threads to buy an Omnia/Mozart/Trophy from any of these whiny, disappointed WP7 users once it is in great condition and at a good price. Everyday I check my notifications and I see nothing. Nothing.

The personal sacrifice I make to go to my computer is tremendous. Please, if you do not want something do the honourable thing and let someone else enjoy it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Crimson Lotus:
I know right? I offered the T- Mobile Samsung Vibrant but know one seem interested. :'(
[Windows Phone 7 General] ErikWithNoC:
No I don't hate Microsoft. I have an Xbox 360 and 3 Windows 7 powered desktops in my house. Just because I find fault with one of their product lines and express my opinion does not make me a "Microsoft hater."

As a consumer when Microsoft tells me all phones will be getting updates, and all phones will have "yada yada" feature then I will pick whichever phone I want because they are all supposed to offer the same/better features. If something's wrong with Samsung's hardware then Microsoft did not test it/abide by its own set of guidelines before they released the phone. This makes me think either A) Microsoft ignored some parts of the guideline to get as many WP7 devices out as possible or, B) Aren't prepared to be programming for multiple devices.

I would've sold you my Focus (unless you were only looking for the ones you listed), but I was able to return mine on the last day of my 30 day trial period.