yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That's because Apple pre-installs all of their software on their computers. QuickTime is akin to WMP, and iTunes is akin to Zune. Both of those come with Macs. Zune doesn't come with PCs. All you need on a PC is Zune. It's more than a simple media player.

Windows 7 actually ships with the Windows Mobile Device Center/Sync Center components because Windows Mobile was the latest Microsoft mobile OS when Windows 7 was released, and in that case you don't need to install anything to integrate a WM6.5 device in Windows. You can plug in an HD2 and off you go...

WP7 is newer, and I don't think Microsoft wants to put Zune Software on Windows update as a required update, tbh... They are actually moving towards streamlining the base system and making more components uninstallable (IE, WMP, etc.) for everyone - instead of throwing it all in there. This makes Windows more secure since uninstalling those components decreases the surface area of attack on the system...

The WP7 UI is actually great. It's much better than the iOS or Android UI. Android's UI is a bit hate it or love it, because the custom controls users are a bit... fugly. Apple's controls are a bit more rounded and the colors used are a bit less depressive. My issues with WP7 are beyond the UI. UI is only a small part of things, TBH, and it's the type of thing you can become accustomed to and move on just fine. Lack of functionality and trivial options and the need to do registry hacks both on the phone AND on your personal computer to accomplish trivial things like sideloading ringtones is a completely different story...

Also, a great UI won't make reception on WP7 devices any better than they are, which is pretty terrible. The reception difference between the Vibrant and HD7 makes me feel like I'm in the middle of New York city on AT&T's network when I use the HD7. Maybe it's hardware related, but I've seen people using other WP7 devices complaining about weak signal.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes basically this sums all up.

WP7 is partly dependent on the future MS delivery.

As for now I love the experience but I'm already extremely tempted by new Androids because they can do sooooo much more.

I use WP7 all the time and was extremely happy with the general experience but it's sad to say my SonyEricsson Cedar feature phone can do many things my WP7 cannot do at all. And I am missing more more and more many things I used for the last 5 years

Nothing justifies so many limitations, as I said many times before - especially considering such a software giant MS.

I think it is worth getting WP7 device because it's great in many ways.

But I am to decide soon whether I stay or not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
See what I mean, you like the UI. I have yet to encounter a person who knows about WP7 and actually likes the start screen. Its a hate it or love it thing.

The OS is aimed at the masses but doesn't appeal to the masses. Metro UI is not great for attracting the masses. You have to actually use it to kind of appreciatue it. That's a deal breaker for getting attention, its too different.

Another thing, I think Steve Jobs said it best, "We're entering the post PC era". Mobile devices are gaining more and more PC capabilities. Every smartphone is getting more PC capabilities, but Microsoft decides to head blazing in the opposite direction.

The fact that you don't have to do anything extra on a Mac is great. Why should I have to download Zune, and my PC already has two media players? That doesn't makes since. Why couldn't they just update Media Center?
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Until you have spoken to every single person on earth you cant declare with any authority that WP7 does not appeal to the masses.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
In at least that regard the sales speak for themselves. The phone does not appeal at first glance. The UI is clearly the best out there but at a glance it's different than the 4x4 icons everyone has become accustomed to so people are hesitant to delve into it because people are generally scared to try something new. I do not believe that the phone has near as many shortcomings as N8er says they do though. I own a total of 7 different WP7 devices now and all in all the only one I am not fond of is the surround due to it's dodgy touchscreen. Even with the iphone 4 I had to perform a reset every 4 days or so. I haven't reset my DVP since whenever ilomilo got updated to have a second story and that has been quite some time. As for the lack of features though I do agree that they shouldve waited a bit longer to release it. The UI is amazing as well as some of the apps but the ridiculous load times are beyond annoying. Some of the features I'd love to have like uploading a video to facebook require me to sync with my PC. I mean it has it's shortcomings but unlike android it always works for me. As for iphone it would be the most valid choice if it had a bigger screen and perhaps a UI that didn't have the aesthetic appeal of a swimsuit contest on The Biggest Loser.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
The problem with WP7 is it's missing things that by themselves are not important, but taken as a whole start to bug you over time. Copy & paste is not a feature you use everyday but one you miss when you need it. A remote desktop client is another that comes to mind, definitely not needed on a daily basis but handy once in a while. Google Maps is far superior right now to Bing Maps, & again not a deal breaker in itself but taken with all the other little things missing it has me saying what the hell were they thinking.

MS is behind & it doesn't matter that it took the IPhone 3 years to do this or that, MS doesn't have the luxury of time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Actually they do, Microsoft showed with the original xbox that they have the funds at hand to let a project dredge through the mud for some time before it becomes profitable... This is why they're in no real hurry though they could lose a number of early adopters based on this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I can definitely agree with this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
N8ter, what you are saying is totally different than the cliche expression I used.

Different strokes for different folks. One man's meat is another man's poison.

I am not really addressing if the OS is good, better, or will get better. If someone asks about potentially owning a WP7 phone, the best advice would be go try it and do research. For that singular person we do not really know if they will like it or not.

Yes, you can say that based on trends they may prefer iOS or Android. But does that fit that singular person's criteria? Because if we looked at the equation like that, you should be owning an iPhone since 100 million people got one.

But that is not how it works. Right?

I desparately want a WP7 phone. But since I am attempting to acquire mine on the unlocked market I am looking at options and price. I am aware of all the limitations and I have done all my research. I found out some things along the way that I liked, and hated (No activesync like WinMo). And after all this research and using an emulator I may indeed hate it.

Just do the research and try before you buy. If you hate it then at least you made the most informed decision you could.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes that's true but around May or any other month, we can say, based on sales, what is the masses reception of it. That is clear. If after 6 months this platform will not get boost in sales we can definitely say masses don't welcome this with open arms. And more significant result will be seen after a year - a time span which says a lot about how the company succeeds with market penetration, advertisement and features bringing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Thats the problem, we have no solid sales data, only speculation. Its unclear how it can be definitively claimed that WP7 doesnt appeal to the masses when there are so many factors affecting sales. We've heard of biased reps pushing people away from purchasing WP7, the less than optimal advertising from both MS and their partners and there is the simple fact that the smartphone world is a fiercely competitive one at the moment, and expecting a new platform to achieve mass adoption on its introduction is a bit unrealistic.

Only the iphone has achieved that kind of acceptance, android for all its popularity now did not see anything remotely resembling mass adoption on its release, in fact its sales at launch more closely mirror what is happening with WP7 now. But for some reason WP7 is being portrayed as a failure because sales cant be counted in the tens of millions, or whatever bar it is being measured against, 5 months after launch. WP7 is not perfect and not for everyone but lets wait for the official cancellation of the platform before we start declaring how it has failed to capture the masses.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
I agree the sales figures will tell the story. The fact that no one has a clear picture as to how sales are going makes me think they are less then good. MS has no trouble giving numbers out when the numbers are good.

Beyond sales if the NoDo update has problems, or they push it back yet again then WP7 is in trouble. No amount of spin will help them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I do not understand this sales argument.

Since when does sales represent anything else but popularity?

We are not lemmings. A plus minus list of features is fine. List of handsets is fine. But sales?

I bet the easy girls are the most popular on prom night. But are those the ones you marry? :p

But in closing, I would just like to reiterate that if nothing else, Windows Phone 7 and Metro UI is different enough from all the other OS to warrant someone to be interested in it. Now if it looked just like Android and had all the missing features and limitations and small app catalog of WP7 then I would agree it is not worth owning.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You make a good point. However Bada is in the exact same position. Its new, and its selling millions of phones. Sold one million in only four weeks, and it's facing the same competition as WP7. Its projected to reach 25 million before the first half of this year is over. You know what else, it only has one OEM pushing it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I really don't understand how badaos is selling anything... I mean there is absolutely nothing interesting about the os as a whole... It plays like Android with little to no support and an equally boring UI...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Cute. But in the business world sales matter. If you're not selling, then there is no reason in supporting.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
You don't? Well.

It's the basics in massmarket electronics industry.

We're not discussing exlusive products here. We're discussing a platform fighting to take position in TOP3 OS'es list on the planet. What means they need to sell like 100.000 million a year. In this case you can say this OS is successful.

Because THIS IS what MS WANTS. All the advertisement, all the campaign (whether successful or not) is aimed at mass consumption, every carrier and user. It's not any kind of exclusive thing.

The Apple iPhone success is mainly measured by sales - both total impressive number and amazing year by year growth. If they would have amazing reception but minor sales, believe me - nobody would mention this really. But iPhone is around every corner.

And one more thing, if you forgot. MS invested 500million in the platform PLUS 1 billion for the MS/Nokia fusion.

WHY?! Because of the fantasy they have?! No! They want to conquer.

They want to have at least 25% of the growing, huge market in coming years.

So yes man, sales is more important here than you think.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Looks like it is worth getting...or will be...an AT&T HD7. The reorts say AT&T's version of the HD7 will include a Super-LCD....basically a TFT (IPS) LCD. ,The same thing the iPhone uses....or similar.

http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/devices/htc-hd7s.jsp

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/21/...d7s-with-wp7-and-lgs-3d-enabled-thrill-4g-an/
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I agree to some extent. However, Microsoft has proven time and time again that they are more than willing to pour money into something that's lacking success until it does become profitable. Microsoft didn't even begin making a profit on the Xbox til the middle of last year.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
You are misunderstanding my entire post. Of course sales matter when you are running a business, but we are talking about which OS is better.

Sales should not be used as proof or a supporting stance that X is better than Y. The best analogy I can bring that I believe illustrates this very point is by the numbers the best non-portable gaming console available now is:

#1 Wii

#2 PS3

#3 Xbox 360

Why? Because if we look at sales / age that is the rank. And you know what is even funnier about doing that? The XB360 sells better than the PS3 in the USA, while the PS3 dominates the XB360 in Japan. So which one is better? Depends on location?

Edit: I forgot to finish this point - So try selling a Wii to a hardcore gamer. Different strokes for different folks.

For all the business reasons we can talk about sales. But that is not the kind of discussion we are having. And finally, WP7 will be successful the same way XB360 is. If it was not for Microsoft being so rich, XB would have died a long time ago. Massive hardware failure and piracy would have doomed most other companies. WP7 is not going to die no matter how sad the initial sales.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
Sales do come into the discussion when deciding whether to buy into the platform or not. Without sales no one will bother developing apps for WP7 & the marketplace will die. In the end sales do have a impact on the end user.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I like how people always bring up the THREE successes of Microsoft. They never mention the hundreds of failures.

Lets all stand back and take a good look at Microsoft. How many successful consumer choice products do they actually have? Remember lets be honest, and look only at Consumer choice products. Something that doesn't involve another OEM.

**Spoiler Alert!****

The answer is 1! Shocking. They have one successful consumer product. The Xbox 360. Lets see, has the Xbox 360 actually turned a profit for Microsoft? That deserves a topic on its own.

Don't come with the Windows has 80% of the market crap either. That's not a consumer choice. That's a corporate choice, if you want a brand name PC you're stuck with Microsoft. Microsoft makes most of its revenue from other corporations, fact. Fees, and licenses to other Corporations.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I don't get it either, but its selling, and selling well. I'd rather get a cheap Android. Samsung obviously has something figured out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes true, if they sell it well they definitely figured something out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes but I think gaming console is a bit different business than OS.

Anyway, as for sales:

Yes, initially it doesn't matter because if they make something good it will remain on this level for some time no matter how much they will sell.

However good OS means also the close future it assures.

For me it matters regarding how good OS is bacause good sales means bigger will to develop the thing and support customers.

It means more market = more interest of developers = better functionality etc.

It's a chain. I don't buy a phone to wait for 3 years for the company to succeed.

I want it now or soon and know what I invest in.

And I think XB360 is not good example, because it doesn't look there is any market where WP7 is really any success ATM. I suppose MS does not inform about the sales just because they are very moderate. Everybody is happy to inform about happy numbers.

My conslusion of all this:

I like WP7 but still expect much more from MS giant.

And if there is any good reason why things look like they are now,

I want a proof.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
You know, if you tie-in Bada with MS Bing and wiseguys...you have Bada Bing, Bada Boom.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I was not speaking of the benefits of the Xbox 360, I was just saying that Microsoft is more than willing to shovel infinite amounts of money into a project if they feel that it will turn a profit in the end. Also I do disagree with the Windows statement. A lot of us use windows by choice. That is more or less like the android vs WP7 vs iphone argument though. I prefer my computer to be a bit more free though not a linux level of free to where I have to build everything from scratch. Therefor I choose windows. I know the masses don't think this way, they see a cheap computer and jump. This is just my input though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Sukuiku:
I got a WP7 phone last Wednesday and I'm pretty unhappy with it.

I love the look and the link to xbox live, however, its really the small missing features that bug me the most (probably things that don't bother a lot of people..)

I don't want to have to unlock my phone to use custom ringtones and I can't stand the fact that I can't send MMS. I love sending videos and .gifs and sound clips and such to my friends and not being able to is a huge turn-off for me.

I previously used windows mobile 6.5 and it felt like I was downgrading more than upgrading because of all the features I lost.

I love the phone itself and the way things are setup, however. If it weren't for the missing features, I probably wouldn't question the phone.

I am considering switching to Android now, though. :(
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
people bring up support a good many times, refering to operating systems. I can't ever recall receiving any kind of consumer level support that was anything other than a non english (natively) speaking person reading from a script. "reboot please your --------- then I will wait for you now ok?" is so typical now.

anyway, what support is there, for mobile devices ? can I call someone if my phone crashes, and have them fix it ?

other than rtm, I don't know of support anymore.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
I do not want to derail the thread so I will stick to the future of Windows Phone.

Let me just put it another way:

Look at the Zune.

Look at the Xbox/Xbox 360.

Based on the issues both those products had/have and the fact that they are still around gives me reasonable confidence to say that if you buy a WP7 phone today, it will still be around and support for as long as the average person owns a smartphone. And those two devices are concrete evidence of that.

Bookmark this post. Archive it in a time capsule. I will be right. And I dare anyone to bet against it. And you know what would be even more telling about their power? No one can stop Microsoft from putting out a Zune or Xbox 360, but handset makers can decide not to put out a Windows Phone.

The Nokia alliance should really be an obvious indicator about Microsoft.

(Get ready for an emotional tirade like a WWE superstar in the middle of the ring)

So you have two (shows two fingers) choices:

(shows one finger) Get on board now!

(shows two fingers) Get on board later!

But you will get on board. If you smell lalalala :p what Micro Soft.... is.... cooking!

:D

(sometimes we need a little crazy humour)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ Ummm, only one of those products are still around. The other is nothing like the mobile market, and has a long life. Zune is dead, over, finished.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nicksti:
But look how long it took for the Zune to slowly suffocate. WinMo has been around longer. Microsoft is in it for the long haul in the mobile os space.

What is debatable is if there will be a WP8 to replace WP7. I do not know but I doubt. The concept called Windows Phone is solid. It is just missing stuff. No different than any initial offering.

Catch up is easier to play than pioneer. WP7 with less missing features, Nokia handsets (the world would take Nokia over Motorola and that will be the difference between Android and WP7 in hardware options) and the wonderful Metro UI experience.

Get on board before the wagon pulls out.
[Windows Phone 7 General] dtboos:
Zune is not dead. Just because they may be reorganizing and migrating services into something with a different name, or not making any new hardware at this time doesn't mean zune is near death.

This is from Dave McLauchlan, Senior Business Development Manager for Zune:

"Hey guys:

There’s been a TON of traffic about the Bloomberg article that posted today – plus I noticed they updated the article a few hours ago:

“We have nothing to announce about another Zune device — but most recently have introduced Zune HD to Canada via the Zune Originals store and remain committed to supporting our devices in North America,” the company said in an e-mailed statement. “We are thrilled by the consumer excitement for Zune across many new platforms, including Windows Phone 7 and Xbox 360. Our long-term strategy focuses on the strength of the entire Zune ecosystem across Microsoft platforms.”

I’ve had tweets, emails, PMs and phone calls. People offering condolences, checking in on me, etc… etc… Stop, stop, stop!

The Bloomberg article is NOT an official statement from Microsoft (apart from the quote above). The headline is purportedly from a “person familiar with the matter” – which of course tells you nothing.

Here’s what you should know – ALL consumer electronics products have a lifespan, and the Zune HD is 18mo old. We were completely frank about this year’s Zune hardware being the WP7 phones, and we continue to both sell and fully support the Zune HD line of products. And as I’ve promised – we continue to bring new apps and games to the platform. More of those are in the works, I promise you.

I manage business development for Zune hardware, and I still have that job. Our PR folks released a statement today that included the text: “We’ll share more information about the evolution of the Zune entertainment service and Zune hardware as future plans develop.”

To be 100% clear – NO information about our future plans, no matter what the incarnation, has been shared. Until then treat with healthy skepticism anything you read. That’s probably a good general rule actually.

So for those who tweeted or emailed asking what I’m “going to do now” – I’ll be going to work tomorrow, working on Zune hardware bizdev. And when Microsoft announces news that is actually news, you’ll hear it from us directly, and I’ll be sure to pass it on immediately. Only then should you take it as gospel.

Cheers, Dave."
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Bada is a Quasi-Feature Phone platform that Samsung develops for low cost devices to compete with Nokia in emergent markets.

It is not comparable to WP7, which is supposed to be a premium smartphone OS to compete with Android, iOS, WebOS, and (perhaps) RIM on high cost, high end smartphone devices.

Not comparable, and yes cheap as hell devices sell in huge bulks. That's how RIM makes so much money with their Curve series, even though they've been shedding marketshare lately (yet still seeing much growth worldwide due to the low cost curves in emergent markets where people cannot afford high end devices and expensive data/txting plans).
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ yes it is a smartphone and yes it is comparable

http://www.bada.com/whatisbada/

Hardware specs are also on par with WP7
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Bada is pretty crappy. Have you actually ever seen/used a Bada device?

Probably not.

It's more of a bad Symbian clone than anything, and while they call it a smartphone OS it's more of a quasi feature phone OS.

There's a reason why I said "quasi feature phone."

It's for cheap phones, at least for now, to compete with nokia in emerging markets.

I'm not reading that whole page but it's not hard to have hardware on par with WP7, since Microsoft is using an SoC from 2009 which is cheap as hell these days...