yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Fact, sales drop on everything after initial release. Sales are more than lagging, they're dropping. This applies to anything. You need a stream of new stuff to keep momentum in today's market.

5 million after an entire year is a massive failure. That's a epic failure! I'm certain they'll have sold way more than 5 million devices before the year is out.

Hell, I can sell 5 million pounds of sand to the beach, with a 500 million dollar marketing budget.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Wow, you are a sad sad case.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, that's not a "fact", that's your assumption. Sales drop after hyped releases with delayed demand being satisfied at first. Sales grow in other cases. There hasn't been any evidence of sales dropping, whatsoever.

No it won't be a failure. Basically at this point what matters is proof that a WP7 device can be sold in similar volumes to Android phones (per model). That seems to have been the case so far. If OEMs and operators see that WP7 devices won't sit on shelves forever, they can then invest into making more of them and promoting them etc.

Don't fall into the trap of overall platform comparisons. Android sells like 30 million units a quarter, but that's on 170 devices in 170 countries, according to Schidt. If Samsung managed to sell around 100K phones on AT&T only in half a quarter (which seems to be pretty much the case), that's an very good result. It means that having a Focus on all US carriers would yield up to 200-250K phones per half a quarter, or up to half a million per quarter, or 1-1.5 million per quarter if it were distributed worldwide with proper promotion. Nobody in their sane mind should compare Focus sales with SGS sales because there's a huge difference in distribution.
[Windows Phone 7 General] TheZuneLune:
I was a long time WinMo user and was wooed away by the Droid. I love the new WP7 UI and think it is by far the best currently available. However, I still feel like Microsoft is competing with last year's Android when it comes to features and devices. When I compare the HTC Thunderbolt to WP&, here is what I get from the Tbolt : Front-facing camera (like it or not, it's becoming standard on high-end devices), tethering, turn-by -turn navigation, and yes, even an open platform. I would be fine with using Bing and I think some developer could do well making a WP7 app that imports your Google maps to Bing.

I would love to go back to Microsoft and maybe I will be able to do that, but at the moment, it is hard to go backwards. When I bought my new Xoom, it downloaded my settings (home wifi, etc) and apps automatically just by signing in. It was awesome.

I don't think Microsoft is failing but they will fail if they don't accelerate the rate at which they are catching up and I am hopeful the Nokia (Go Finns!) partnership can play a big role in that acceleration.

Lastly, if there is anything they fail at, it's marketing. They have to run 2x as many ads and they need to show what the device does. Outside of my uber-tech friends, nobody knows what the platform does or that it even exists.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Dude what country are you in where sales are always steady? Let me know as I would be rich. Sales drop on everything, its a basic rule of business. You have three major factors, supply, demand, and time. Every product diminishes with time. WP7 isn't selling the same amount today as it did last month. It varies just like every other prodcut on earth. No new devices, no new features; sales are not going up my friend.

Not at all. If the Focus had Bada on it, it more than likely will have sold the same amount. If the HD7 had Android, it would have sold the same amount or even more. I'm a firm believer that people purchase the packaging rather than the actual OS.

I was only comparing sales for app selling potential. Which one would you most likely get the most sales from, etc...
[Windows Phone 7 General] thesecondsfade:
...and in the process, ruin everything that makes WP7 great.

Android is peaking right now but fragmentation is going to kill that OS eventually as it did with WinMo. Opening up WP7 would be a VERY bad move by Microsoft. They're in this for the long haul. They understand it's going to take time to build up the brand in a market flooded with iOS and Android. With the amazing OS that WP7 is, it's only a matter of time before it picks up both noteriety and market share.
[Windows Phone 7 General] buffalosolja42:
Sorry but had to comment on this

People today I am in a different age group sadly now being 27 have become LAZY, and don't get me wrong its a convenience to have everything there for you on a phone. But honestly no Phone OS in its native form has had everything to make everyone HAPPY. Again I have had all current phone OS and I use WP7 and Android daily. People are complaining about a game not being on another phone's OS really............ , also complaining about ringtones (I know should be basic) but literally if your on XDA you should know how to make a ringtone on WP7. Map applications google is great and all but I think the Bing Turn by Turn on my TP2 was better, and for A to B its a good service for a beta. If you are really needing to do facebook chat you are not personal enough with the person to text them? I have friends who program and do graphics and whatever, sorry but Return on Revenue is what drives development. You think when 1 million people have WP7 (it will happen) that programs want just flood the market because the demand will be higher. Windows 8 like someone said is a desktop/tablet OS why do so many people expect this to be built on phones* (as of yet) when WP7 gets the job done. The embedded services work great, use the mass storage is gone (for now and I miss that), but really is the only thing I miss. Multitasking really I use it sometimes but really out of all smartphone/phone users how much of the time multitasking is needed talking and surfing would be only thing I would want and I can do that. When this nokia thing kicks off all skeptics and people unwilling to change will really catch it I suppose. While I type this I am enjoying my Zune pass on my virtual machine running Windows 7 on my Fedora 14 laptop. Open your mind guys this is only the beginning (they are already addressing things in updates) after their first set of updates are implemented would other phone OS would really have a superior advantage?
[Windows Phone 7 General] jbestman:
All that you have said is great, if WP7 was made for solely you. Unfortunately, Microsoft needs other people that don't share your taste and needs to buy it. So, to be viable they need to act on what the general consumer wants, not just what xda members want. They have to, there are just too many choices out there, to be had, for them to be taking away functions and expecting everyone to "excuse" it away like most people are doing here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] buffalosolja42:
As to be said with anything, like I said no mobile OS is going to meet everyone's needs. Of course everyone isn't on XDA not taking offense but you are correct, all I am saying is with all the social networking stuff going on out here is there any social educating? How many people know of all the features that are in every device truly? I mean I didn't know how to activate the voice feature on my focus until like a month after lunch but I could put a rington on it. As far as copy and past goes how often do people use it in a work enviroment if not for sharing web addresses or doing something in a spreadsheet. As I stated no one device has come to market suited for everyone the problem is that everyone is not willing to try every device that comes out which creates a biased situation for most products. But regardless what has been said about WP7 (people said that about iphone, and android. I sold iphone on launch and went with my friend to purchase G1 at launch).
[Windows Phone 7 General] Skex:
Drop 95 to command mode and check the version. yeah it was a evolutionary step past DOS and WIN3.1 but it was a far cry from the fully HAL'd NT.

95 was still more DOS than NT and if you don't realize that then you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Win 2k was the first full break from DOS and XP was just a consumer iteration on 2k.

I was a level 2 tech at Dell when 95 first released most of our DOS troubleshooting still applied we were still having to load drivers in config.sys and autoexec.bat so don't try telling me how it wasn't DOS.

In the end everything prior to NT was just a shell. NT was the first full architectural break from DOS.

Yes 95 had a new gui and provided an somewhat virtualized environment for programs to operate in however it still allowed full hardware access to the system components through DOS. NT (as OS2 for that matter) used full hardware abstraction. Meaning that user programs never directly interfaced with the hardware which is why it was more stable compared to 95 which did not engage in hardware abstraction.

95 was still a 1st gen OS it had a pretty GUI but functionally it was just DOS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
No one cared or cares about windows mobile. It time to move on. I had 3 windows mobile phones including still an HD2. its a horrible os and platform. Microsoft should just issue the EOL notice, IMO...

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] Marvin_S:
Your a bit wrong bro...

You simply forget in your business law that MS has phones for sale in countries which dont support the marketplace and other things yet, no working bing maps... they dont have any marketing here! No ads on the tv, no ads in the stores, warnings these devices are in english not in your native language bla bla.

They sell the device for the enthusiasts, not the customers yet...

Our language support along with loads of others will come halfway this year so the same device will than become intresting to people! And dont forget that most people in Europe buy a phone every 2 years and we are not even a half year in sale with wp7 yet.

You can not expect sales to already drop if there are still a lot of people with contracts ending soon and the old wp7 devices will look brand new to them since the ad campaigns in the rest of Europe will start in a few months (customers will not know these devices exist for half a year already). Also for the americans, the cdma support can increase the sales as well.

And sales increase can always happen with any product, like smarphones are becomming more standard than dumbphones so yeah if the general trend is going up and up, the wp7 trend can go up just as easily
[Windows Phone 7 General] theo80:
Horrible? Winmo may not be pretty, but it certainly isn't horrible.
[Windows Phone 7 General] intruda119:
Same page as you, winmo is not horrible. It is the future of Android if they dont put a lock on it. I would still use winmo if the browser didnt suck.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Yes, it's horrible. The user experience is horrible. The user interface is horrible. The Stability and Robustness of the OS is horrible.

An OS needs more than core features and a quasi-Desktop OS design to be great. The market is weeding all of those OSes out (Windows Mobile, Symbian, soon Blackberry OS).

That being said, Windows Mobile even failed on consumer features. The HD2 had to settle for VGA Video when the SoC clearly supported 720p, and it lacked support for things like Push Notifications, etc.

Windows Mobile was great as a business smartphone OS. Smartphones that people use for work, and that's it. Things are changing. People don't want to carry around a WinMo/Blackberry/Symbian device with their iOS/Android/WP7/WebOS device. They want one device that provides both functions.

The issue isn't that WinMo is dead. It's that WP7 is a complete failure when it comes to business use. This is by design, but that will drive sales to iOS/Android/Blackerry and maybe soon WebOS. You can't target strictly consumers and ignore business users, because the line separating the two has been blurring more and more over the past 5 years or so.

Business users want to have fun, too, and consumers want to get real work done...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sales can go all kinds of patterns. An initial jump, then drastic slowdown and never recovering. Small initial sales steadily growing. Small initial sales never picking up. Volatile sales with peaks and slumps. All kinds of things happen, and it depends on a ton of factors. I suspect that what you mean is going down after the launch push. The difference between these two levels depends on the amount of delayed demand satisfied at launch, but it isn't an indicator of what will happen in a month.

But that's exactly what I'm saying.

And I don't disagree. Moreover, I said similar things in this very thread.
[Windows Phone 7 General] _LEM_:
I think Microsoft should invest more money marketing this phone.

Every time somebody sees my phone they say: wow! It looks amazing! The screen and the interaction... However they have no idea what phone it is!! Even if I tell them is a Windows phone. Some of these people they even own an iPhone and still get surprised when they see mine.

so Microsoft...wake up!! More marketing! Give us regular updates! (consumers love any kind of updates, even if they have almost nothing to offer). You already had a great start.... don't screw up!
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Surmising and fear, why would it ruin everything rather than improve choice, people can either choose to deploy apps or not, but you have to give them the choice first. Good customer relations, not dictatorship.
[Windows Phone 7 General] theo80:
Which is why it wasn't horrible for me.

Anyway I agree with you on most points, that a modern smartphone OS should be good for both business and leisure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Vintage144:
Dont take it so personal lekki , I couldnt careless whether you like WP7 or not, but you brought it up ,I am not assuming anything about you other than what you have said , you said you couldnt find a restraunt ,I merely stated that before garmin , people still could find a place to eat!

By the way , nice tshirts ,I might buy one!

I also agree with you on WINMO, I loved the device , but if you were looking for more, go android and you can make all of those things happen!

WP7 will happen , but it wont be overnight!

I cant understand why Microsoft didnt use winmo or at the experience of winmo incorporated into wp7 , but oh well!

Good luck on your business , Im not bashing you ,I believe in technology but technology will never run my life!
[Windows Phone 7 General] jgcaap:
Hello guys . I think someone is over reacting a bit. WP7 is growing at a great pace. Remember is a new platform, is like a New Phone. we have to be patient :D Now we are almost near 10 000 apps. 10 000 aps wich has alot of free apps with quality on contrary to android apps .

Android growed fast and we saw that because of the "open source" and the fashion publicity of open sources. Magasines, engadget and others sell the open source idea because is better that, than a closed source. But as many of us tried it gives its problems.

WP7 has facebook app for instance wich in my opinion is superior to the iphone app. The OS itself is alot better built . Just needing more functions. soon enought we'll have copy past function. We'll have alot of updates wich we'll be able to get access without even having the need of connecting the computer.

I had already an Iphone, and an android phone (htc magic) , and i think WP7 is far superior.

Has a prior organization wich gives the user all the simplicity in the world on making calls, texting, agenda, Great looking UI.

Now we have the market only in some countries. As google had. And surely it'll be open for more countries, i do believe they are preparing the database for each language, country and waiting to update the phone for each language in orther to become just perfect.

This UI is being about user experience, expecting everything in a mostly fun way of perfection. Like apple does, but microsoft is trying to do it better.

Lets see what this race will be, but for now, after almost 1 week of using this great first phone, i'm happy to say, i'm glad i've changed.

I Have the best Email experience no one could offer.

Best Facebook experience.

Excelent Game experience.

Fun UI.

Fun Music Layout HUB.

People HUB just excelent.

I dont really know what i dont like. :) I do believe microsoft wishes to achive perfection for user experience.

This is my opinion.

PS: Ios and android and WP7 are 3 very diferent concept operating system, none of them are the best, all are great, just diferent, wp7 is the most compatible with my needs. =p
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I think we are agreeing, finally.

However if anyone thinks WP7 sales will pick up, next month or the month after with no new devices, they're wrong.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
We all know how to feel about WP7. Not sure why you're even posting in this forum anymore.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Actually, Android didn't grow all that fast. 2.5 quarters after launch (around four years after acquiring Android, or six years after starting the project at Android, Inc.), in Q2 2009, the platform had 2.8% market share, which was universally called a huge success (and it was). In half a quarter in 2010, WP7 is said to have had a 2% market share in the US, and it's considered a failure somehow.

Android got big in 2010. It was an inconsequential also-ran before that. As any platform, it got big when it got devices to run on.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ simple. One company has been in this business for years, and the other hasn't.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
1) you really think the WP7 facebook app is better than the iOS one? in what fathomable way?

2) comparing a WP7 device with a big screen and 1ghz snapdragon to a small screen, small resolution, weak processor (528mhz), low ram device isn't really a good comparison.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Omega Ra:
The CDMA phones will be out by the end of the month, that will increase sales for a little while at least...
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
With all these threads claiming how WP7 is failing, dying, vegetating, shouldnt it actually be DEAD by now? As in Kinned? Or could it be we dont actually have all the info and are purely speculating? Just wondering.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^Verizon actually killed kin.

To put things in perspective, Bada sold 1 million phones in 4 weeks. Bada is only on one device right now, and it isn't sold worldwide.

Bada also has 2% of the market. You know what else, it doesn't have half the stuff of WP7!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Purple11:
I think all these developers are too busy chasing Iphone..

I dont know why the FU@K have SPB software house has not come out with any WP software yet.. not even a beta or any information on any plans ..

Everyone is just too busy chasing Iphone market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] The Gate Keeper:
well SPB would only be able to do the same as HTC, create a Hub, that's all. and given the limited APIs (not PIM for example), then it's not possible.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
Someone wake me if/when activation numbers are finally announced, and skip any wake-up kisses if it's only the number that shipped to retailers. That means squat.

:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] dgaust:
I don't know why you're using facts or figures in this argument... facts clearly have no place in a "your OS sucks, mine is better argument".
[Windows Phone 7 General] asphyxsia:
Android user

As a non WP7 user, i would like to tell you all exactly why i dont want a WP7 phone.

- No tethering. My Android is a WIFI hotspot.

- No Multitasking. I use this ridiculously often.

- No Facebook (at the time)

- Interface just irks me.

I know I am a bit of a power user when it comes to phones (i have my HTC Desire overclocked for example, and I also run 4 audio apps just to get all the features i want.)

I know the iPhone also had no tethering and no multitasking at launch, but that is not a good argument. That was years ago, and the iPhone was the first of the new smartphones. It could get away with a few mistakes.

WP7 has jumped into an experienced ring of gladiators lacking a sword and shield imo.

I used to own an iPhone too btw, and i got rid of it because it couldn't keep up with me. Hell. The HTC has a hard time and it has 576mb of RAM and im running it at 1.2ghz!

Also, i love to have a screen with my calendar, emails, texts, free ram, etc. all out there for me to see at a glance, and the WP7 platform doesn't do this well. Much like a stock iPhone. (jailbroken iPhones are able to, but it cripples the speed something fierce when you add features)

I don't know about you but i would rather have a half broken multitasking implementation than none at all. Or cable only tethering at the least.

****. Nokia have been doing it since black and white.

Catch up MS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] DavidinCT:
Android only grew because of the iPhone and AT&T. This has been said before by others.

The smartphone market was never big to the consumer, it was always corporate or hobbies (XDA/hackers). The iPhone opened the door to everyone now wanting a smart phone but, hated AT&T's network. The big sales people at Verizon, Sprint and other carriers, could not provide a iPhone and their options were, Blackberry (boring), WM (old), or Android. They needed something new and hip, Android was the winner here and sales reflect this.

Android was the replacement for the iPhone for all the carriers that did not have it and sales people agressivly pushed it. If WP7 came out right after the iPhone was released on all carriers, it would be bigger than Android currently is, maybe even the iPhone.

Android was the right phone at the right time to make it big...no one knew it till it was too late.

Windows Phone 7 will be up there sooner or later, with devices being released on some of the larger carriers in the US (CDMA), It will only grow by a huge amount.

They also have a lot of ground to cover, WM left a bad taste in peoples mouth because of it's limits and it was outdated, so it needs to make up for that and re-invent it's brand, like it's doing.

Once the apps are there and people know about it, it will only take 30 seconds in a store to see the difference vs apple and Android on how smooth and refinded WP7 is, this is where it will really grow.

As for Windows Mobile now, Am I the only one who thinks it was a great OS for it's time ? I still use 6.5 today, and besides the lockups here and there, its' a great solid OS that can be cusomized like crazy, there is more apps than you can dream of and still great games if you have the hardware to run them.

Microsoft can really put together a great product when they put their minds into it....Look at WP7 and Windows 7...
[Windows Phone 7 General] dgaust:
Well as a 'power' user you would know that tethering on the majority of devices is a matter of a few key presses to enable. Other devices are a little more fiddly given they need to be dev unlocked, but again as a 'power' user I'd imagine you'd be comfortable with that.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=929868

Something I'd expect a power user to be able to do very easily.

Meh, doesn't bother me too much. I like Apple's implementation (i.e only multitasking certain APIs), I despise Androids multi-tasking, Apple's task selector could use some work.

Facebook is built into the phone, there was also a Facebook app at launch. What aspects of Facebook do you need?

That one's always going to be purely subjective, and no-one can argue that someone else's aesthetic taste is wrong.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Well said and true. By the way, I'm the other WinMo lover. :D