yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.

The answer is whiny developers.

From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.

I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:

1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?

2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?

3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?

4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?

5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?

And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:

1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.

2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?

Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.

3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?

These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.

Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.

MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.

Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.

Have a good day.:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] otech:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.

I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.

When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.

The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.

Specifically to your points.

Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.

For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.

Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.

WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?

Just my 2c ;-)
[Windows Phone 7 General] theo80:
I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] intruda119:
I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.

The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.

I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.

It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.

ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?

Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
[Windows Phone 7 General] irispen:
failing?

lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.

The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.

Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Vintage144:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?

Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!

The game sucks

read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!

You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!

SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,

how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!

What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT

tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!

I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
[Windows Phone 7 General] tiny17:
There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.

I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?:confused:

1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.

2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.

3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!

4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...

5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.

6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.

7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.

8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.

My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Skex:
This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.

To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.

WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.

That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.

I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] bnlf:
IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition). :cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?

It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pillsburydoughman:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.

It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.

I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.

I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
[Windows Phone 7 General] icemasta31:
I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.

As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pillsburydoughman:
Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote

Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.

Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
While that may be true, I was just making sure that me saying W8 as opposed to WP8 is factually wrong.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
I suppose that is why windows desktop has a compatibility tool, because everything was expected to run like a broken clock. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] tanders04:
I don't really understand your argument.

Because google isn't making apps for wp7 the whole system is "failing"?

They're not making apps because they don't want to. Pure and simple. I'm sure if WP7 really starts catching on and they start seeing financial gain in it they'd do it. Thats what it boils down to for all of them (except for your hack example that I just don't get period). As you said cash money is cash money and a company like google isn't going to waste it unless they see a significant return off it.

The whole point of opening up to the smaller developers is so that you don't need to wait for the big boys like google to get around to it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Skex:
I would think the compatibility tool would be evidence of the fact that Microsoft takes great pains to support legacy apps.

You can get W7 to emulate all the way back to win95 (which was still mostly DOS)

I never claimed it would be seamless what I said was that Microsoft has a history of maintaining backwards compatibility. Far more so that Apple, Can't really comment on Google since it hasn't actually had an OS long enough to judge.

But pretty damn anything written for Vista will run on W7 in fact damned near everything written for XP will as well. Sure there are some breaks in compatibility generally the older the legacy app the less likely it will work but you have a long higher chance of a circa 2000 program written for a MS OS will work on W7 than you would for the same applying to Apple.

MS took how many years to revamp WP7? Do you really see them completely redoing everything again for W8 in less than a year?

Be rational here WP8 will just be a more refined iteration of WP7 simple as that. Yes they will probably work towards a unified platform over time as they optimize code and cross pollinate the mobile/desktop environments but you will always have beefier hardware available for the desktop than the phone and they aren't about to not take advantage of that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] webwalk®:
im not even reading the whole post, i told enough about this subject.

but i want to awnser the OP

or no, i changed my mind, nevermind...
[Windows Phone 7 General] bnlf:
google fears microsoft and making apps for wp7 is like affirming its good enough to compete with their system. They will hold it as long as possible.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
Go learn about grammar and reading comprehension as you made a point that I already made.

If it's truly about cash money, why wouldn't the money from all the WP7 subscribers interest them? 2million people and multiple clicks is a lot of money over time.

And in case you didn't know, when used like 'failing' it indicates that I don't believe it is failing and am using it sarcastically or ironically. It's a grammatical trick used before /s tags were invented. I should've used them so people like you needn't have commented.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nucentury08:
This is where it is Wp7 has no balance like Android with Wmx there was a balance of openess but lack of hardware.Then Iphone comes along and shows the world how hardware should be now developers get on board with ios now we all know wmx had hardware problems you had to flash to get speed custom roms I.e. So Ms said no more of that open crap we want the same user experience for every person and in doing so they took away the openness and balance.Now Android pops up in a time when company's where just learning and using new top hardware muti touch non resistive screens so forth but android brings a balance to the force per say lol the give openess to the os but on standard hardware good hardware that is now developers want and can develop for it unlike wp7 where the hardware is now better but balance for hackers like me and you get left out for a Iphone control like os.Andoid caters to hackers out the box no roms needed great hardware caters to noobs and anybody but google was able to keep the balance and not lock it to keep the balance like wp7 did so in all Android picks up where WmX left off but with new age hardware and developers because the hardware is up to top standards so partly it was great timing for Android OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
its doing better than they expected because they didn'tt expect much. Part of the issue is Microsoft. Internally, they're a mess. Office and Lve teams are slinging out iOS apps. We still don't have WLM. They have IE9 coming out in mango, yet we're sitting with a browser largely based on IE7...

Microsoft developed apps like. Facebook lack push notifications. No Facebook chat...

Moving on from there, lots of apps are simply badly developed and/or perform terribly. Board Express I wish I hadn't purchased. Its the slowest mobile app I've ever used on any platform.

Lve tiles turned out to be overhyped, imo.

The bing maps is fine until you want turn by turn navigation, then its useless. The WM6 version has more capabilities.

Trivial setting for trivial things deeply hidden from the user.

An I don't find the opinion of someone "sold on the platform before release" seriously, especially when the post is full of "I don't need this anyways" type statements...

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
110+ million android devices

160+ million IOS devices

2 million WP7 devices

Which OS interest you more?
[Windows Phone 7 General] ustudio:
switch to decaf please:p
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
You have a point when it comes to free, ad-based apps but isn't Android doing so poorly in the paid app department that Google is trying to rework their market system? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I wonder if WP7 is still at 2million devices still. Was in Germany last week and was pleasantly surprsed at the awareness of WP7. Even the car rental was advertsising WP7...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vbetts:
Android- G1 released October 22, 2008

Ios- Iphone 2g released June 29, 2007

WP7- HTC/Samsung/LG devices October 2010. Didn't find an exact release date. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Thresher:
Gee, I would hope not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] phoneguy 4567:
That's Android's problem sure they have a huge user base but one that isn't generating any money for them. I can never remember any in app ads so how effective are they :). One of the things I like about Android is the many free apps available but those will never help Google's bottom line.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Anyone who seriously thinks W95 was "mostly" DOS is an idiot and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

Windows 3.1 functioned like a DOS shell. Windows 95 was completely different, and yes, maintaning near full-compatibility with DOS applications was crucial back then. There were still even large businesses who ran off DOS applications. OS/2 Warp 4.5 had a near-full version of Windows 3.1 embedded in it (and DOS compatibility) for that very same reason.

But to claim W95 was "mostly just DOS" or a DOS Shell (even Windows 3.x was above and beyond a "DOS Shell, for that matter") is idiotic.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tanders04:
I understand both those things quite well thank you. ;)

You should really learn things like civility and maybe try an economics class while you're at it.

Money in must be less than money out to turn a profit. Google looks at wp7 and doesn't see that equation balancing in their favor, pure and simple. In your 'argument', you don't make any connection between what Google is, or rather isn't, doing and what ms should be doing to change it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
u just dont like microsoft..... pissoff..
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Methinks thou dos(t) protesteth to much. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] adbookeronline:
Windows phone 7, is a great out of the box experience, but the only thing that could hurt it ( I believe ) is it not being able to link with Wm.6.5, and what I mean by link is having some area for cab file storage. They are trying to compete with Apple with Zune, and this Cloud thing, yet with Apple you still have the same ugly looking icons on the phone just a better resolution. The Iphone 3gs had as its successor the Iphone 4, or you could say a better version of the Iphone 3gs, but with Microsoft, Windows Phone 7 came and stabbed windows mobile 6.5, in the back or its like a horror movie of UI' s and Windows Phone 7, killed all his little brothers, but just to be killed by Windows phone 7.5, or 8.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Free apps make money. Rovio is estimated at bringing in 1 million per month with a free game.

The market was reworked for ease of use.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Ok you just proved my point.

Last quarter of 2010:

IOS 30 million devices

Android 25 million

My point, WP7 isn't on the radar yet for large organizations to pump money into.

2 million is for licenses sold, not actual devices sold. Its also highly unlikely that WP7 sales are picking up either. Its all down hill after the first couple months of release.

No new devices, and no new features to boost sales.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I haven't seen any evidence of sales going "down hill", but there certainly nothing that suggests that sales are rising steeply (or at all, for that matter). I think it's also true to say that without new devices, new carriers and much wider presence both internationally and with more than one or two devices per carrier we will see any serious growth. Sales will lag at least until a new, more serious, wave of devices, features and news comes. MS will have a huge success if by the end of the year they'll have 5 million devices sold.

So yes, it's hard to expect any serious investment from ISVs. Luckily, it only affects two categories - hardcore games and satnav apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Simple solution for WP7 is to take the shackles off, and open it up to all apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Vintage144:
@lekki , I sure hope you had an android or iphone with you that had turn by turn navigation , I wouldnt want you to starve !!lololololol!!! You must be in your 20's , cant do anything without texting ,no navigation I guess you'll have to do it like the rest of us? Gosh I wonder how the allieds advanced into Germany during WWII without turn by turn navigation , that was a war , you only wanted a place to eat!
[Windows Phone 7 General] lekki:
30 yr old mechanical engineer from Purdue University that works for a fortune 200 company and owns my own company theteerex.com, on the side.

Was in Germany on a business trip. What do you do to think you can trash talk me?

And what do you know about my circumstances to assume as much as you did?

And forgive me for paying $600 for a smartphone and wanting working navigation.