yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[XPERIA X10 General] lft4ded:
I'm sure Google worked with a lot of companies. Samsung is also doing great with their updates. I suppose Google gave them better support than they did SE? SE *can* turn to Google. Apparently though they skipped a couple of lessons. Do you get we are SE's customers?

Plenty of us seem to understand the reality of the situation.

Now you're saying that SE is either lying or stupid. They say it's their fault. What isn't cut and dried about that. They can modify Android on their devices however they want to, and they did to our detriment. I'm sure Google told them to remove tethering to, huh? Or did SE do it on their own.

I'm not villifying them. Just placing blame where it goes. Its a company that's interested in making as much money as possible. Google is getting what they want by the way. You have an X10, now being dated, and soon you'll have an Arc/Play/Neo. Now you have two devices instead of one. You forget that SE benefits just as much from this obsolecence as *they* have just sold you two devices.

Google however does release the source code for free so it's possible to update your phone, given access to the correct drivers, bootloader, etc...stuff that is proprietary to...SE. <gasp>

How do you respond to this:
[XPERIA X10 General] fiscidtox:
ahahaha google doesn't own htc :S mannn.. you're really grasping at straws dude
[XPERIA X10 General] fiscidtox:
I often wonder if people ACTUALLY believe the stuff they write on here...
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
My bad. Google uses HTC to manufacturer their phones. Even though I was wrong about ownership, they have a working relationship where the Android OS is tested and developed on HTC made phones which might explain why HTC is doing better at updating and integrating their customizations.
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
I never said SE couldn't have done better or differently. In fact, their and our major mistake was buying a device running outdated software, and then expecting it to suddenly be running current. I am just pointing out that Google didn't do much better of a job rapidly releasing updates that required its users to redevelop their customizations. Why couldn't the updates be updates rather than new versions Froyo & Gingerbread. I know you're going to say Google calls them updates, but then they should work with our existing customizations. Don't third party apps still work from update to update? Nevermind, some people are just bent on having a witch hunt.
[XPERIA X10 General] fiscidtox:
I would definitely say this would apply to you...

I really doubt this convo is going to go any further as us three don't see eye to eye, but I REALLY don't understand how you can possibly believe what you're saying.. I really don't. It actually blows my mind that you could take the blame out of SE's hands and try to lay it with google :confused:
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
It's the "Dual-touch vs multi-touch" argument, both are the same but with some differences. Update and upgrades are too. While I can say my X10 has multi-touch, you can't say I'm wrong, and yet I can say dual-touch ( am I clear? )

So of course when you google the definition of update you'll get that.

Upgrading your phone, gives you a newer model, updating it gives you new features/fixes bugs.
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
SE did make a mistake going too deep into the operating system, they didn't know that Google were planning to release newer versions every 6 months or so. And they realized their mistake and admitted it. Even though it would be good to have those updates, whether 2.2 or 2.3, we have to accept the facts that it's not meant to be.

Now they said they have learned the lesson, I think providing their latest models with latest OS shows their intentions, but we'll know as soon as Google releases the next version of their OS.

And regarding Samsung and HTC being better in updates, you have to keep in mind that Samsung provide pure stock android with a couple of widgets only ( easiest way to upgrade since they have to do nothing except modify their widgets ). However, HTC is a different story, because they were with Google from the start of the game ( HTC Magic G1 ), so they are more matured and experienced, even though their UI is as complex as SE's, but they learned how to deal with that long time ago
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
No one can understand the other here, that's why we need to have some English tea and discuss it more :cool:

Other than the lack of upgrade, the device is decent for their first Android ( not saying the best ) but it delivered what most of us wanted ( except flash for those who want adult-rated movies :p j/k ), tethering is available in market, DLNA too

it's not even about being an android fanboy or SE sheep, in the end we choose what suits our needs
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
That's because you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I've only been asking shouldn't we also be looking at Google's management of the Android updates as well? Google has not been releasing updates. They have been releasing new versions that require a new ROM. Like I said before, we wouldn't be having this conversation if Google developed Android work around to its users customizations from the beginning. They are fixing that now, which in my opinion shows that Google sees it was an issue and has taken some responsibility.

I don't think it is as black and white as you do. In my experience people don't sit around in groups as large as a corporation like SE and think of ways to screw people over. Especially when they hope to earn your business again. I don't think people are that evil. I feel like some people watch too much TV. If you have to blame someone, blame yourself for choosing the wrong device to meet your needs. It was outdated out of the box and SE never said anything beyond 2.1. Saying they are not supporting this device is pure misinformation. We've been getting updates every couple months, including dualtouch which was originally not possible.

I have been using vanilla/generic 2.2, and I have to agree that while it is faster and some new apps are available, it is not as big of a deal as people are making it.
[XPERIA X10 General] Maximus Rockstar:
Key word in there lad PHONE. they are just phones.
[XPERIA X10 General] tryantar:
+1 dude, when people have something already they want more (not saying im not included but im starting to love my x10 more and more =) )
[XPERIA X10 General] 1Learning:
Free and open source means that there is no licensing fee involved to Google for using their Android OS. That is part of the reason it has become so popular. Google's Android OS - the vanilla version which every manufacturer uses as their base - is free. When the phone manufacturers do their customizations, then that is where the licensing fees come in - but not to Google but to the phone manufacturers and their software partners. For example, if SE wanted to license its version of the Android OS to another phone manufacturer, they can, as long as the customizations do not run afoul of the free part of the Android OS. It is SE that gets the profit not Google.

Google only gets profit b/c people use the services on the smartphone like search, Google maps (and the ads in them), and so on. But Google makes no profit off the OS itself directly. It is not the business model Android OS is based upon. Saying that, I don't know if things like Google maps is considered part of the Android OS so Google might be getting licensing fees for that but it is not getting a license fee for whatever part is considered the basic OS.

Each of the Android updates are one continual version - except for Android 3.0 which is a "jump" and is currently only used for tablets; the other versions are are all the same Android but updated. Or upgraded if you prefer that terminology. But if you go by that, then Win XP SP1 is an upgrade over Win XP, and Win XP SP2 is an upgrade over Win XP SP1 and MS should have charged for each upgrade but that is not the case. Each of those updates were given free.

To continue the analogy, rough as it may be, is that each computer manufacturers have their own version of Windows (you can't install a copy of Dell's Windows onto a HP computer or vice versa as it looks for specific information on the motherboard, etc. that is special to that manufacturer) but yet every manufacturer's version of their Windows can be updated by MS even though they are customized to their specific brand. Sony's computers have specific drivers to them just like Dell does and HP but these customizations do not interfere with MS's updates. Each of the phone manufacturers could have done the same thing with regards to Android OS and their customizations, some chose to, others didn't.

More are now choosing the widget route - or closer to the widget route and leaving the base Android untouched (whether this is b/c of Google or b/c of the way things have turned out, I don't know) as it makes it easier to update the underlying OS and their customized software. SE is doing that with the Arc in terms of their signature apps - Timescape and Mediascape. Heck, Mediacape on the Arc is basically the default Android media player but with SE skin on top (and some add-ons).
[XPERIA X10 General] 1Learning:
But smartphones are not the same as feature phones or "dumb" phones. So that is where the apples and oranges comparison comes in.

Smartphones are different and have different criteria from that of feature phones. That is sort of like comparing a typewriter, a word processor, and a laptop. They can all type and print documents but it's not really an apt comparison. The typewriter doesn't even use an OS, the word processor uses a relatively simple OS, and the laptop uses an advanced OS. The typewriter and word processor can only print documents while the laptop can do so much more.

It is the same with comparing smartphones with feature phones or dumb phones simply b/c they are phones, it does not mean it is an apt comparison. The smartphone can do so much more. Comparing a smartphone to a feature phone is not an apt comparison.

And anyway that was 5 years ago...a lot has changed since. So what was viable 5 years ago, might not be today.
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
Very informative. However, the license for Android has NOT been free during the brief update periods. I could be wrong, but this is where I believe Google attempts to recoup their cost of development that the phone companies are profiting upon by charging a licensing fee for the updates. Maybe that's why the are pumping out updates :p

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)
[XPERIA X10 General] 1Learning:
HTC also did customizations with Windows Mobile for a very long time so that definitely helped. But to be fair, SE has/had developers working on customized software too so it is corporate policy (and developer know-how) that dictated the direction the companies went.

SE could have been with Google from the start too if they wanted, but they didn't. They shouldn't be penalized for it but nor should they be given a free pass. If anything, by coming in late, they should have learned from the mistakes of others since they could have analyzed the way things were going and made adjustments. For whatever reason, they didn't adjust. So them choosing to embed their customizations so deep was a choice they made that has come back to haunt them. If it didn't, they wouldn't have changed their policy and have now made their software more widget like.

The phone manufacturers do get a heads up on the Android releases before the public with a general specs/update list. They get notifications from Google. How much of an advanced notice they get I don't know. But by the time it is released to the "public" developers, the phone manufacturers would have already have had it for a bit of time so SE should have known about the timing of the Android releases. Google has to tell the phone manufacturers in advance so that they can build/design their phones otherwise the phone manufacturers can't build/design their phones.

Saying that, maybe they will be better with updates - and every phone manufacturer too especially if the new Android policies are implemented. There really wouldn't be an excuse for there not to be an update if the core Android can be updated without disturbing the customizations part (too much).

A primary concern for me is the security flaw. Security is one of the reasons why OS' get updated... It would be nice for them to release some kind of patch if possible especially since the exploit is now known.
[XPERIA X10 General] 1Learning:
In first reading, that sentence in wikipedia doesn't makes sense. Especially in reading the reference which says that the code is free. But if re-read and parsed, it says that the software has been free since October 2008 so perhaps it means that the OS prior to that was not free (the "brief update periods") but after that time, it has been free. If every version since October 2008 has been published under the Apache license and is free and open source, then every version since that time is free and open sourced.

But they might get licensing fees from the use of the Android trademark by the phone manufacturers in addition to licensing fees from software that is not considered part of the basic OS and the ads.

I don't disagree that they want updates but not necessarily b/c of licensing fees as much as if the OS is better than the competing OS, more people will use it. And they have integrated several Google "apps" into the OS that they can earn money from (the "apps" are stuff like Google maps - I don't know if that is considered part of the core OS or not). So the more people using Android OS, it means the more people using Google services. Corporations...*sigh* :-P
[XPERIA X10 General] onsomethinguk:
I believe the problem here is the overheating issue. Custom ROMs have a habit of triggering overheating on the faulty batch. Nothing wrong with the custom roms, it's faulty motherboards. Increasing the speed of the phone will show just how many faulty phones are out there. They're avoiding a recall....
[XPERIA X10 General] lft4ded:
Good point. I had forgotten that SE passed on the opportunity to share the same relationship with Google that HTC & Samsung accepted.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/18/sony-ericsson-ceo-google-asked-us-to-build-the-nexus-one-we-re/
[XPERIA X10 General] pngface:
Here's another source of revenue: patents!

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2010/1...ot-free-because-of-license-fees-to-microsoft/
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
It makes sense to me. It has been free since 2008 except for during update periods. Except means the exception. Like I go to the gym every day except Sundays(not really :-) I'll try and find out, but it sounds to me like it's a loophole built into the whole free thing to spread the cost of development between the members of ASOP. After all, they are all using it, so why should Google be the only one to pay for its continued development? Sort of like the whole donation thing. The comment about this being why Google is pumping out updates was made in jest.
[XPERIA X10 General] behrad_m:
SE will lose its Customer for this decision. I Loved SE but now i don't rely on it anymore.
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
Not to beat a dead horse, but technically the title of this thread is misleading. SE is still supporting and updating the X10. They decided not to implement Google's update for Android. I know that's a big deal to many of us, and it's even disappointing to me. However, there is a lot of misinformation out there and this is one of the biggest ones. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about SE's decision about Android, but saying they aren't supporting the X10 is not true. One last time....SE is still updating the X10, but SE is not updating the Android version to Froyo+.

The other big piece of misinformation is that SE said that 2.2+ wouldn't run as well or even run at all on the X10. They did not say that. What they said was that they felt the unique x10 (2.1) user experience was a fair / equal alternative to vanilla / generic 2.2, so future support and updates would be based on 2.1. By unique experience they're referring to Mediascape, Face Recognition, custom UI, phonebook, messaging, everything that makes the X10 different from everyone else. Basically they were saying that if they gave us 2.2 they wouldn't/couldn't put another 6 months to a year into the extra development necessary to give us an unique x10 (2.2) user experience, so it would have been generic Android. They decided after comparing the two that the things found only on the X10 were equal to the changes in Froyo. Sort of like the difference between a pizza with meat and a pizza with vegetables. They are different but equally as good and satisfying. However, everyone has their preference. Just as many people or more would be upset to lose Mediascape, Timescape, or Face Recognition as would prefer generic 2.2. The problem is some of us don't like the one SE picked and some expect the supreme pizza which is not on the menu. Yum, now I am hungry. :p

SE's mistake was releasing the X10 running 1.6 when everyone else was releasing 2.1.
[XPERIA X10 General] unknown13x:
Just for a heads up, Android pushed out around 2007, while X10 started developing in 2008...so it's not that SE didn't learn, they had nothing to based their decisions on for such a new market.
[XPERIA X10 General] MrHassell:
stop smoking crack.

go buy a decent phone.
[XPERIA X10 General] BingoRingo:
It was my understanding that Google makes its money selling Google Apps. For example, Sony Ericsson could decide their latest device comes only with Android but no Google Apps (like Gmail, Google Maps, etc.) and it wouldn't cost them a single penny. If they decide they want those apps included on their phone, then they pay Google for a license.

Isn't that why the Google apps cannot be distributed freely with ROMs like Cyanogen?
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
Yes this is why :)
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] efishta:
So after having Motoblur crap out on me on this 2 day old Atrix because it wouldn't let me remove my facebook & twitter accounts, I decided to factory reset the phone.

I tried logging in with my Motoblur account, kept giving me an error (the website login also gave me an error), I created a new account and went through the setup process. (really hating the Motoblur requirement)

Now I'm in the default homescreen, logged in to my google account and Market, allowed it to update itself, and i won't let me update or install any applications. I only get a small note on the notification bar saying:

"Download was unsuccessful, please try again"

It does this on both WiFi and cellular data.

This phone was not rooted or modified in any way beyond installing an app via the Sideload Wonder Machine.

did I just get a bum phone? I'm fixing to go to ATT's store and have it replaced and see what happens there.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] efishta:
Most peculiarly, after two hard resets and it not working, I want into the att store and sure enough it starts working and updating apps as usual... as if to spite me. I am still puzzled as to what caused it, however. Maybe some delay in the market's authentication after the initial sign in.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] plmiller0905:
I won't have my Atrix till tomorrow. But when I had this same issue on my Evo, I would go into settings, manage applications, select Market, then click on Clear Data and Clear Cache. Like I said I don't know if the Atrix even has these options in the settings menu. But if it does, give this a try next time this happens.
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] delta530:
I am having the same problem after a Factory Reset. It's been 2 days now and I still haven't been able to push apps from the Market Web Store. I have tried the procedure described above several times as well. :(
[Atrix 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] SuzieRB99:
I had the same problem, I ended up taking mine back to the AT&T store and they replaced it with a new one. Will see how this one goes.
[Fascinate General] ragarm:
I'm currently running SC 2.5 NV

and an wanting to flash SC 2.5 V.

Just wanted to make sure that it is "safe" to flash the voodoo package, from adrylnalyne, over this?

Would be doing it through red cwm.
[Fascinate General] cpark_12:
Yes that's fine...just don't do it the other way around without disabling voodoo first
[Fascinate General] ragarm:
Thanks for the help.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Beefvvl:
So you know our phones comes with Qik Video Chat. Has anyone used this app? I don't have any friends that have it so I don't know if the picture is in the correct orientation.

Has anyone used other apps like Tango? I tried using Tango with my brother and the orientation is wrong at his end.

So my main question is for those that are using Qik Video Chat. Is the orientation correct on the receiving party's end or is it wrong like with Tango that I'm experiencing with other people?

UNRELEASED UPDATE FOR QIK HERE!!!X

.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] gmac24:
Yes my wife and I used Qik and it look good, just a little laggy.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] slipin3:
Qik

I have not been able to use mine yet. i dont have any friends who have a front faceing camera yet. So right now its a waste of space for me. :( My girlfriend has a fasinate and she thought, and was told it had a front cam on it but we found out it did not....
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] KayBeeMixon:
Qik Video Chat

I've used Qik - its clear and it does lag. The only thing Im not too happy about is when using any other app such as Tango or Fring u can not utilize the face front camera. Use have to use the camera on the back which sucks. If I had to do that I would've kept my Vibrant. I was told that there may be an update coming out to correct that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] CB620:
Tango is ok but if I had to choose I would use qik or fring.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] CB620:
The orientation is fine. You should try yahoo too. gingerbread can't use it but it works fine on 2.2
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] KayBeeMixon:
Qik Video Chat

What sucks is that you still have to use the rear camera. It won't let you use the face front. I don't want to have to turn my phone around so the other person can see me.....I hope they come out with a update for it. If not Im going to have to get rid of this....I already rooted it and unlocked it....
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] CB620:
The only thing that works rear and front is tango, fring, and qik.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Beefvvl:
I dunno why yours isn't working. Mine works just fine using the front camera.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] kuntri:
Update your tango app -- then click the icon at the top right hand corner of your screen and it will rotate from Front to Back
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] rockboy66:
i cant use the camera with skype. i can only in the qik video chat
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] chadster214:
QIK Force close

anybody experiencing a Force Close on QIK software? I have removed some bloats and integrated the QIK update to the ROM via Titanium back up.:mad:
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Falmodovar321:
Tango seems to work fine with me.. at first the front can showed up sideways but after the update it works perfectly

Galaxy S 4G
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] connexion2005:
Could you maybe post that apk here? Just back it up with Titanium Backup then upload the apk.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] tmon4ju:
ooVoo, is the best as far as I am concerned. I video chat for hours, and have used Tango, ooVoo, and qik. ooVoo has the best audio quality, video is good also. Tango, has good video quality audio is not so good. And qik. ok. oovoo is the best, you can chat phone to phone and phone to pc.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] zenofsong:
Qik won't let me switch to the front camera. It says switched to front, but it's not.
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] cufd440:
Tango is good if you are doing phone to phone or phone to Ipod touch....Oovoo is the best in my opinion because you can do phone to phone, phone to Ipod touch and phone to pc
[Samsung Galaxy S (4G Model)] Blade10:
Same exact problem here. :(

Blade