yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HTC Inspire 4G] Squadfer:
it amazes me to see that you all are not seeing the picture of this petition. Its not to complain about something in the contract. What we are fighting for is the reason WHY our phones are limited in upload speeds when the Iphones have a much higher cap. They are on the same network, same data plans, and yet they have better upload and download. I don't know about you all but when Im paying for a service I expect to get the same treatment as everyone else paying for that same service.
[HTC Inspire 4G] colbur87:
Boom.. very nice bella. I think this thread can be closed now...
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Oh also this term:

6.11.1 What Are the General Terms that Apply to All DataConnect Plans?

We may, at our discretion, suspend your account if we believe your data usage is excessive, unusual or is better suited to another rate plan. If you are on a data plan that does not include a monthly MB/GB allowance and additional data usage rates, you agree that AT&T has the right to impose additional charges if you use more than 5 GB in a month; provided that, prior to the imposition of any additional charges, AT&T shall provide you with notice and you shall have the right to terminate your Data Service.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
I agree. There are better venues for rants. :-)

I often wonder if people read their contracts... I mean it is a $2000 over 2 year investment, on average... so it's a big purchase. I will be the first to admit I'm the first one to just sign without reading when it comes to wireless contracts, but I'd never file a petition or challenge a company's legal standing in a forum like this without reading the applicable pieces of the contract.

The beauty of living in a free market economy is you have choices. If you want a certain device, you have the choice of agreeing with the terms that go with it, or finding an alternative.

If you don't like the terms, you're more than welcome to solicit support to communicate to AT&T that you'd LIKE if they made certain changes, but not threaten legal action without grounds. There's nothing wrong with asking them for change, but to demand something you feel is owed to you without legal grounds shows lack of legal knowledge.

The best vote is with money. If you're unhappy with AT&T, spend your money on Verizon, or Sprint, or Virgin, or Tracfone, or T-Mobile, or Boost, or Straight Talk, or Simple Mobile, or any one of the 20 other options you have....

Good luck. :-)
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Get a rom and hush. I enjoy uploads of almost 2mbs :D
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
You didn't have to go through all that trouble.. !! I am still sticking with my petition. I thought it might help some of you Inspire owners but I guess not.

Anyways, consumers are still protected and I have the right to contest the contract !
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Yeah. Look at the section of the contract that says "Consumer Rights"... you didn't even follow those directions. LOL

AT&& Dispute Resolution terms per your Wireless Contract

(Posted the link because I know you'll ask)
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Thats like the people I serve with in the military screaming? "WHAT, I HAVE TO ARM UP? WITH A REAL GUN? :O I JUST SIGNED UP FOR THE FREE COLLEGE!!!!"....Think they get to contest their contract? :P
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
He signed up for "Unlimited* Data" and decided not to read what the "*" meant in the contract. My contract says "Free Roaming*" so I guess AT&T owes me the ability to roam anywhere in the country... or on the planet, because I forgot to read that "Free Roaming*" only applies in the US where ATT has roaming agreements, and that roaming service may not be available in all areas at all times, and ATT reserves the right to terminate a roaming partnership at any time... lol, guess I better get working on a petition, ahahahahahahaha.....
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
Totally different...this is just a cellphone. Are you in the Army ?
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
When you sign a contract with AT&T they usually say TERMS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE so you may have to live with what they are trying to do or you can cancel the contract for a fee.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Different in your mind, but not from a legal standpoint. You can't read only what you want, the way you want, and expect it to be legally interpreted that way.
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Correct you are
[HTC Inspire 4G] netnerd:
shouldnt this read AT&T misleading their customers about 4G, they just rename their 3G networks as 4G! ?

just did another speedtest, test 1: 1052kbps test 2: 760kbps

is that 4G? haha
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
What he's upset about hasn't changed since he signed on the line to agree with them. The terms that are subject to change are coverage, roaming, etc, which are all outlined. "Material change" is afforded the right to terminate service without penalty, but he's arguing something that he agreed to from the start, lol
[HTC Inspire 4G] Squadfer:
ill repost this since it got hidden within all the legal talk.....
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
It's very misleading, but so is calling an iPhone "iPhone 3G" then calling the next model "iPhone 4" hehe... one would think the natural evolution means 4G, hehe

But the bottom line is everywhere that they call the network "4G" they put an asterisks and at the bottom it says "4G-like speeds where available" this covers the fact that their technology isn't generally accepted as 4G, AND it covers the fact that even where their fake-4G is, it's only "where available" lol
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
Ha ha ha Great one !! I, now, know why I got an Atrix and not an Inspire...
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Pretty sure ANY "4G" AT&T device is accessing the same network, and requires the signature of the same terms and conditions. Your responses are getting more desperate, just stop.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Thats not the relevant part, the relevant part is that a contract is a contract. YOU SIGNED IT.

If your this butt hurt you should terminate your contact and go to sprint.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
I agree 100% ... Wish more people thought like you. If they did we wouldn't be in this financial crisis of mortgage defaults. Read what you sign, and understand it before signing or NEVER complain about it. :-)

In related news, latest speed test: 4644 down / 1773 up

Loving my HTC Inspire 4G!

I WANT MORE speed, but I'm not ENTITLED to it!
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Well fine sir, you enjoy your slow speeds and your fingerprint scanner...lmao
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
I agree. But don't be suprised if sprint or any other provider does the same thing.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Careful if you talk to him, he'll ask you to sign a fingerprint scanner petition because it says unlimited scanning and when the battery dies it doesn't scan anymore, heh.
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
If only I sgined a contract lol
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
No way... other cellular providers have Service Agreements and Terms and Conditions too? HEHE
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
It's just like getting a credit card or a car you have to read the fine ink. If there are some words in the contract you don't understand use a dictionary because they tend to use very uncommon words or make it lengthly to wear you out.
[HTC Inspire 4G] netnerd:
well, i dont believe you. haha

you got a youtube for that?

i also in the bayarea, just did another test, 2655 down/ 1271 up. my regular 3G phone captivate can get these speeds!
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
OYE... you need some serious legal guidance. You can't activate a phone on AT&T's network without signing a contract. Just because you're not bound to an extended term of a year or two doesn't mean you don't have a CONTRACT. You have the same CONTRACT, it's just a month to month\no commitment CONTRACT.

Seriously, it's like talking to a 4 year old. Wait, are you 4?
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
The best place in the bay area for speeds is between the 101\80 Split in SF and the 280 split... they just did a backhaul upgrade to the tower on the curve. Also once you pass SFO between Milbrae and to San Mateo speeds are great, and then from Santa Clara to SJC Airport you'll see ridiculous fast speeds.

Just depends 100% on location in the bay.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
ultimate solution! Pre-paid!
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Alright Bella no need to flame him. He is obviously still learning the birds and the bees to signing contracts.
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
I can't believe how many self-righteous wannabes are in here...Bella you win, wou know the law and how to read contracts, I will contact you if I need any legal advice..
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Don't be wooed by fancy talk.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
I think I know the law pretty well. I'm a law enforcement officer in the Navy :P
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
The Navy pretty cool, are you on a carrier.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Nope, USS Iwo Jima (lhd-7) <------google it.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Still gotta sign a contract for pre-paid, you just don't have a 2 year commitment, lol
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
I know for a fact that US Navy personnel aren't as rude and arrogant as you.

What a way to waste space on XDA, 6 pages of putting someone down because he was trying to do something decent. Thanks a lot
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
It's over
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
He wasn't rude. He was up front, matter of fact, and no BS.

You want someone to cradle you and tell you everything should be as you see it, this isn't the place.

His attitude exemplifies why he's on a ship serving our country, fighting for your rights, and you're sitting on the internet, filing ridiculous petitions that waste time, resources, and abuse the free society we live in which goes against everything he's fighting for.
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
This isn't the place for you...
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Lol thanks, I love the ones that cant tell blunt from bull.

Edit, Im done ranting now. Off to more important rom cooking threads.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Thanks brother. Okay this is my last post.
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Ok guys let's all put our guns down remove the clip and empty that one bullet in the chamber. Let's all start over XDA we should be friends we all have something in common and it's the fact that we like phones. So let's put this behind us blaze, zizo, Bella and me Ok guys.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
The funny part is I agree with the OP in his logic that we should be able to access the 4G network, and that AT&T shouldn't charge the same amount as iPhone and neuter our connection.

It's his mindset that drives me nuts... nothing more. :)
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
I do not want to access 4G as I know it is in the process of being deployed. I want better upload speeds that is all ! I want to understand why they are capped.

Ha you go drive yourself crazy because you actually do not know me in person, please do not judge..
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
And you have a RIGHT to WANT that, but not an ENTITLEMENT to it, that's my only point.

Equate it to this: You have a want to WANT AT&T to increase how many minutes you get if Verizon increases their minutes per dollar, but you aren't ENTITLED to the minutes.

:-)
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Let's finish the argument
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
I don't think I have anything else to add. ;-)
[HTC Inspire 4G] Squadfer:
Thank you, now that the firestorm has died down a little bit... maybe we can get back to the meaning of the petition... yea the title doesnt do it justice coming from a legal standpoint but the actual meaning to the petition to my eyes is not to fight a contract. Instead it is to figure out why our phones which use the same network and are on the same data plan (my mom has an Iphone4 with the same data plan as me) are being capped while the Iphone can see much better upload speeds then we can. I have put the two phones (iphone 4 and my atrix) within 1 feet of each other inside my house and the iphone always has a better upload rate then my atrix. What we are trying to figure out is why this happening. I've personally gone to a couple ATT stores and did the same process in front of the representatives at the stores. Each time i've gone to the store the reps either dont know what they are talking about or they cant answer my question. Maybe with this approach we might be able to get an answer from ATT about why this is happening the way it is.
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Remember AT&T was rated as lowest in all around service including customer service.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Honestly I have a feeling the iPhone 4 slipped through the system when it did... Apple's deal with AT&T didn't let AT&T touch the software on the phone, and had it allowed it, I'm sure that AT&T woulda crippled the hell outta it, haha
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Tho keep in mind if you average the speed among all phones offered AT&T is still the fastest as of today. Tho that doesn't say much given in 6 months they'll go from fastest to slowest given the rapid deployment of real 4G heh
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Crippled it. They would have killed it.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
iPhone is the only device that I can think of in history that was completely absent of carrier modifications and limitations (besides the tethering thing, but that's more on the network, not the handset)... imagine how much better the industry would be if the handset manufacturers started being more agressive with the carriers. I hope HTC and Motorola and Samsung start stepping up and following Apple's lead with keeping AT&T out of their sandboxes.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Okay, since this is a legimate question. The answer is because our phones have HSUPA (High Speed Uplink Packet Access) disabled. But they are perfectly capable of attaining much higher uploads. Them disabling it limits it to about 600kbs. The Inspire already has roms that enable it (i use one) and are now able to attain around 1.9mbs upload. Im sure the Atrix will follow soon. Hope this helps.
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
So can you explain why can't the Atrix would be allowed to perform as good if not better that the iPhone 4?
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
I think he was asking a more philosophical "why?" not necessarily a technical "how?" hehe
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
I feel the iPhone is the most hacked, and abused device. My god it's like a ps3 with a hacked copy of mw2.
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
Now why wouldn't you guys be this nice from the beginning ? lol
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
According to the general consensus on these forums, the Atrix is crippled by limitations, including upload speed limitation, and bloatware.

If you're from texas it performs "good", but everywhere else it'd likely be performing "well" :-)
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
You're absolutely right... because Apple controls it so strictly, but that's a whole different discussion. I am a long-time Apple and iPhone fanboy, and I just switched to the bright side, Android two weeks ago. I rooted my phone, but not out of necessity. The iPhone pretty much forces you to jailbreak if you want to be able to do anything with it.
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
In my oppinion the iPhone is now a lost cause for developers. Once you jailbreak you will never ever have to pay for an app again.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
its cuz apple is communists!....btw this was sent from my macbook pro
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Hahahaha communist
[HTC Inspire 4G] Squadfer:
Correct, I know that the HSUPA is disabled in our phone. My question is more along the lines of Why they are doing this when we are paying for the exact same thing. Dollar for dollar Iphone users are paying for the same service that Im paying for and yet they are crippling me. I personally believe that can be considered they are robbing us of our money. I dont think its right to provide a service for one person, charge them X amount for it. Then go around and charge the same X amount for the "same" service but instead cripple it because you can? To me that does not sound like good business practice and that it should be reported.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
I think it's a lost cause not because of that, but because apple wants to control it, vs allowing their devs to control it. Unfortunately that'll keep them producing a great device, but not an exciting device. Android has done in two years what took apple four years to do, so I'm sooo excited to see that Android is taking over.

Apple iPhone and AT&T had their golden opportunity and let it go to waste. :-(
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
I feel the same way. I just keep praying that i'll get a overhauled tower and it will shut me up for awhile. lmao
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
But hey it's the contract we signed and there's nothing we can do but cancel our service.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Wow so after a little reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Uplink_Packet_Access) I've learned that iPhone 4 is a Cat6 device (5.76mbs) and the Inspire is only Cat5 (2.0mbs) Hence the reason i've NEVER gotten above 1.9mbs uploads. Anyone else chime in on this?
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
To tell you the truth I have not really noticed what android has done compared to apple. But dont get me wrong I prefer android over the iPhone any day.
[HTC Inspire 4G] Squadfer:
Dont get your hopes up to much... I live in an area that does have the backhaul already in place (houston, tx) and there isnt that much of a difference when I go back to my college that doesnt have the backhaul in place yet....
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Inaccurate article. Clearly many have gotten better than 2mbps, myself included, albeit rare.
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Besides wikipedia is not a reliable source. They don't except it in colleges and I believe we should not except it here because it can be altered at anytime by anybody.
[HTC Inspire 4G] blaze0303:
Well, it sounded good to me because i've never gotten over 1.9. I mean i've literally watched it bounce off of 1968kbs and seem like it could go faster but never did. So it sounded legitimate. But thanks for the knowledge.
[HTC Inspire 4G] secretasianman:
I don't view it as an entitlement at all. We're all more than welcome to ask and even demand from AT&T to put a stop to capping our upload speeds. They (AT&T) can in turn give us what we want or ignore us.

Our only course of action if AT&T chooses to ignore us is to switch carriers under the terms of the contract we signed.

There's no harm in letting AT&T know of our displeasure.
[HTC Inspire 4G] DroidFreek:
Our displeasure like they care.
[HTC Inspire 4G] ShadyMilkmanNEW:
It really all comes down to being a smart consumer. I unfortunately was not. AT&T has a chance to make this right but I have a strong feeling that they will do nothing to rectify this issue. I understand AT&T is a company and companies are out to make money. You would hope that AT&T would do what is right by their customers. Of course in this day in age company greed strongly out weighs customer satisfaction. The sad thing is that AT&T can still make money and fix this issue yet they chose not to.
[HTC Inspire 4G] rex-tc:
For one you guys saying this is "entitlement" is BS.

1. If you see no issue why is every major tech site reporting this as an issue?

2. There are certain legal limits within what is considered a 4g network by the IEEE working group, which includes upload speeds.

3. Reasonable customer expectations of acceptable 4g speeds (down and up).

If you don't want to sign this petition then keep your mouth shut and post somewhere else. You need to follow your own "entitlement" rules and quit being hypocrites.
[HTC Inspire 4G] kb58:
All ATT has to say is "we're working on it", which is enough to defuse any sort of pseudo-legal rights people think they have to higher speed. I'm sure speeds will improve, whenever they get around to it.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
Absolutely... you can tell them, and a petition, or letter to them, or the BBB is absolutely the right thing to do. But standing behind some cockamamy legal theory that has no backing is BS. They're NOT violating the law.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
1) Every tech site reported the world was ending when iPhone 4 came out, calling it "Antennaegate"... yet the return rate on iPhone 4 was among the lowest ever in company history, and the satisfaction rate is higher than any other phone. Media loves to sensationalize things, especially when they know people will get riled up... society loves drama.

2) There are certain legal limits, and AT&T fully complies with the fine print.... just like when you see a car advertised the fine print always says "financing available to well qualified buyers, not available in all areas, certain terms and conditions apply" blah blah blah. AT&T covers their a#$ when it comes to a legal standpoint.

3) Putting a 300k cap on upload speed is perfectly reasonable to comply with 4G -like speeds AT&T advertises. In fact, many cable internet and DSL providers still cap upload speeds at 500-750k, when the download can be 10, 20, or even 30mbps... which is 15x faster than ATT's advertised speeds.

It's not hypocritical. Clearly those who sign the petition have no technical or legal training, as they feel that the network shouldn't be managed. The subscriber has no legal grounds to dictate how the provider manages the health of their network, and ANYONE with a technical background would understand why AT&T does this.

It's fine if you want to scream that you want more, that's your right. But there is no legal basis or obligation for AT&T to give you more, so stop saying "I pay for it" because you don't, you need to read your contract because you "pay for" a network in which "AT&T may restrict or control the bandwidth as deemed necessary for the health of the overall network" ... hypocrisy is signing a contract without reading what you then argue legal grounds against. It's one thing if it's absent in the contract, but it's clear as day, you just don't chose to read what you're getting into.
[HTC Inspire 4G] rex-tc:
For one 300k is not in any fine print and are you some kind of lawyer? You act on presumption of knowledge which you know not. Last year AT&T played this same game blaming Alcatel-Lucent equipment is limiting data upload speeds. With Net Neutrality laws in place the game has changed and these companies are held a lot more accountable and transparent. Plus there is a reason why the FCC gets involved in cases like this and has its own broadband speedtest site. Again if you don't want to sign it is your business, but I will rely on people who know more than you.
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
What's your FCC Complaint ID #? I'd love to follow it and see where it goes.

You clearly don't understand net neutrality. Doesn't give you the legal "right" to take the most bandwidth a network provider can technologically dish out. Get an education before you post ridiculous responses.
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
If you don't agree with this petition, we know by now as you bashed anyone who is supporting it. I am not sure why you think people are looking to take legal action against AT&T. We just want answers and we are entitled to them as paying customers. Most of us are still in the 30 day return window, like our phones and want to see if AT&T will respond to their customers concerns. If not, we will simply return them to AT&T and get our money back.

Thank you for you feedback Bella ! You are awesome !
[HTC Inspire 4G] bella92108:
You're NOT entitled to answers as ATT has not breached the contract in any way whatsoever. You can ask.for answers but they OWE you NOTHING.

This country has some serious.entitlement issues...
[HTC Inspire 4G] zizo79:
So I should just shut up and go with it right ?
[HTC Inspire 4G] laxwillsch:
Lol everyone just needs to chill. This community is here so we can all benefit from each other. If he wants to get a petition going live and let live. I for one agree with the fact that the upload should be equivalent with the iPhone. But I don't feel entitled. I think there should just be an equal distribution between phones. They should either cap all or not at all.