yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Xoom General] DatterBoy:
I know I am.

We can debate about it till the end of time and end of day, it's just preference. I dislike the Apple arrogance, but they make a kick ass piece of hardware. To do what it can do on lesser hardware specs (CPU) is an amazing accomplishment. Once you get into an app on either platform, it's pretty much the same thing.

However, I am in the Android ecosystem and I dig it. I am a tinkerer, so it's definitely for me since I love the customization. But I am also a cheap bastard, and price could win this war for me.

The XOOM is expensive, even with the 25% coupon.

Here's where I jump ship to iPad vs. XOOM (which I do have on order and is shipping)

- Lower iPad entry price. 400 - 450 for a 16gb iPad2 is killer. However, it would have to be closer to 400. At 450, it's 150 away from full flash, higher resolution, more capacity and expandability... etc etc...

- Higher resolution screen. This is huge. I want to be able to paint with sketchbook and already believe 4:3 is better than 16:10 for this, but even a 16:10 1280 x 800 is already better than iPad 1's 1024 x 768. A higher res screen would likely be 1280 x 1024.

If they get both of these, price and screen, I am not leaving Android, but I will leave the XOOM behind. And not just as an in comparison vs. iPad stance, but lets look at 2011. Almost every Android pad coming out has similar to same specs as XOOM. We all knew we were paying the premium for first adopter syndrome, but at some point, I need to be smart about all this.

Thoughts?
[Xoom General] Jrockttu:
Sources in the media say the higher res screen is not going to happen because it would cause more power drain. They are going to make a thinner screen, though, allowing the device to be thinner.

I can never get an iPad because iOS is pathetic for a tablet OS. Not near enough functionality for my tastes. It's just an app delivery system.

Unfortunately, this leaves me still waiting for a tablet that fits my needs (Toshiba? LG?). My Xoom is going back, I'm too bothered by the power button and speaker placement, especially considering the price.
[Xoom General] muyoso:
They aren't going to lower the price and they aren't bumping the screen specs up. So your decision is already made. Apple hits the same price point every year, they aren't going to lower it when they are already below all relevant competition. They have already confirmed that the screen is the same resolution as well.

What will change I think is that Apple will be running a dual core TI OMAP4430 processor with the Imagination Technologies Powervr SGX540 clocked at 300mhz. The reason I think this is what they will use is that Apple owns a significant stake in Imaginations Technology, they might even outright own it at this point, and they have used their technology in past iphones and ipads.

If they do use this SoC, then the iPad will have SIGNIFICANTLY higher graphics processing power than the Xoom and other Tegra 2 tablets. Also, Apple won't support it, but it would be capable of playing back 1080p high profile content flawlessly. Maybe once its jailbroken and XBMC is installed . . . . .
[Xoom General] tsekh501:
I'm not really on the fence, as I will get a Xoom eventually. But I do think that the pricing of the Xoom is ridiculous, and I do think that this will change once the iPad 2 is announced.

Motorola justified the premium price by saying it has many features that the iPad doesn't have. This is stupid. First, 4G and Flash are not available on it, yet. Second, the product that the Xoom should really be compared to is the iPad 2, not the original iPad. Flash can certainly be ruled out for the iPad 2, given Steve Jobs' stance on it. But how come Motorola is so certain that iPad 2 won't get 4G support? And front+rear cameras support, and faster CPU, are unlikely to be missing on the iPad 2.

I do think that Motorola will change the pricing on the Xoom once the iPad 2 is out there. This is probably why they don't say anything about the price of the wifi-only version yet (except informally said to be around $600, not saying anything about the capacity). The official price of the current 3G+wifi model probably won't change, but I'm sure they will do some coupon or mail-in rebate to effectively lower its price, and then introduce a range of lower capacity and wifi-only model to try to match iPad's pricing.

Apple probably will lower the prices with the new iPad. They typically cut the price of the same capacity model (due to flash memory price dropping like crazy all the time?) when they introduce a new generation of products every year (see iPod Touch). I highly doubt they can do much lower than $499 for the cheapest model though, because honestly that's already shockingly cheap when it was introduced last year. My guess is the starting price will still be around $499, maybe $450 but not any lower. Maybe they will retain the current generation 16GB iPad and slash its price, just like what they did with the iPhone 3GS. But the prices of the newer higher capacity models should be lower than what they are now.
[Xoom General] muyoso:
I don't think flash can be ruled out. They could easily just say that it wasn't ready to run as smooth as they require, but now with the new hardware it does. They have reversed themselves on dozens of things as vehemently rejected as Flash in the past. That would be a major coup against Android too.
[Xoom General] Bauxite:
There is no on the fence for me, Honeycomb compared to the sorry excuse for a tablet OS they call iOS is a no brainer.
[Xoom General] p-slim:
Not a big deal, the 32gb 3g I pad currently costs $729, the new I pad will be the same or more, I could careless about $70, also the xoom with no flash sucks balls, to be stuck with an iPad that will never get flash would be a travesty. Please hurry up adobe
[Xoom General] schnoz:
I am on the fence. What I really need is a good tablet that will replace my notes at work as well as be a nice toy for my 2.5 year old to play with and learn on. We won't know everything until tomorrow, but I love how Android is an actual OS whereas iOS is an app launcher. The thing to realize, Apple is also going to show some stuff coming out in iOS5. Nobody knows what is in the new OS. For all we know, they completely revamped it to be more like a desktop experience. If this is the case, I think I am going to have to go with IPad. If this is not the case, I will probably stick with Android, maybe not the Xoom but the Samsung 10.1 or another one. The only part that I am wary about are the amount of apps. I know that android will be getting more apps as time goes by, but IPad already has those apps. Therefore there is no waiting at all for them. Ahh, it's going to be such a hard decision to make when it comes down to it.

Disclaimer: I have never owned a single piece of Apple hardware/software before. The only android hardware/software that I have used is my HTC Hero CDMA.
[Xoom General] gogol:
I am waiting the next Samsung 8.9" tablet that will be announced on March 22 :)

Hoping it doesn't use Tegra 2, has nicer screen like super amoled and 64 gb model.

I might jump into iPad 2 if iOS5 is not just a launcher.

Xoom is nice, but too expensive for current state (dislike Tegra 2 performance, hate the screen, hate the power button).
[Xoom General] lanternca:
I'm not seriously on the fence about an iPad2...not a big apple fan, but I may still return my Xoom and wait a few weeks given that the iPad2 can change pricing and speed up some of the missing features (ie flash).

I don't own (or ever have owned) an current generation Apple product. I did own a original Macintosh and Apple II GS. I do like their hardware though.

As an aside, I always thought Apple should start using other apple names besides macintosh. The iphone could've been the fiji and the ipad the granny smith.
[Xoom General] stanglx:
I am also on the fence - and I am coming from the GTablet. Dont get me wrong the Tegra 2 is an awesome platform and have become very comfortable with the source strucutre (Froyo), etc. etc. BUT I hated the screen. I just could not get past how bad the screen was on the GTablet. This now brings me to a point where I am tablet-less. Since the iPAD 2 announcement is tomorrow I am definitely on the fence. Other than an iPOD I don't own any Apple equipment. Having a strong linux/java development background so I do gravitate towards the Google platform BUT as I see it for what I want it to do (Browsing, Playing Games, Email, Media, E-Reading, etc.) the IPAD 2 is just as good (if not better possibly). With the GTablet I LOVED the tinkering with the kernel, loading up different ROMs, creating FrankinROMs, the little development I did, etc. but honestly I have enough tech playing in my life/profession soo.. the net net is I just need something that works, has great support and most importantly a great screen.

NOW.... If Motorola was smarter the WIFI would be out by now; someone like me would have pulled the trigger already especially due to the fact the 3G version is utterly crazily priced!... Unfortunately for them I have now reserved my self to be on the fence... Stupid stupid Motorola... I suspect everyone who is on the fence is/was in the same position! Listen Motorla - you probably just lost many customers to the (right now) king of Tablets... I would love to know the strategy of these manufacturers... Apple was smart to wait till after ALL the tablet announcements... its like seeing a boxer throw punch after punch barely connecting, tiring out the opponent... By the time the IPAD 2 hits the shelves - Android 3.0 will be a whisper in the wind - unfortunately due to the fact XOOM hasnt had the glaring reviews we all suspected and all others delayed till end of April or beyond. I suspect Apple will announce the IPAD 2 will be released 1st week of April - killing a huge market share of potential Google purchasers (like me?). If I were Apple this is what I would do.

Anyway... fun to discuss, speculate, etc.
[Xoom General] cheebahawk:
Count me in as being on the fence. I was really hyped on Xoom coming out but the price and lack of options has completely killed my desire for one.

The biggest complaint I have is the fact that there is no WiFi version available at this time. I really dont need another data contract, and with having a Evo I can thether for free and dont need an overpriced CDMA radio. Having played with a Xoom, I think its great device and would really like one, but it loses out to the iPad in the following:

1) No WiFi $500-600 version

2) No Apps. I know there will be apps, but if I pay $800 for a device, I expect strong app support.

3) Fully thought out & functional product. Xoom seems rushed with no flash, no SD memory card, and crappy video support. I dont mind that these things will be updated in the future, but at a $800 price point its utterly retarded that its not fully functional.

I think the biggest mistake Motorola made is not offering a WiFi only version and releasing sooo close to the iPad 2 launch.

I will likely buy a iPad 2, since it will be announced tomorrow, WiFi version will be available soon and has the better apps. Although iOS sucks balls, I would rather have a cheaper tablet that is comparable.
[Xoom General] dudeimgeorge:
No Brainer

i have never connected this to my computer and have already 20 albums, 3 movies and all my contacts, calendar, bookmarks.

oh i also have :

my jobs wifi with password

my house wifi with password

and all my friends wifi with passwords....i didnt do anything besides sign in my google account.

4g connections...micro sd...flash..soon enough (complain all you want about that..early adopters are a rare breed)

heavy dev help on the way....massive google overhauls as well

you do the math...

if your cheap i can see the complaining. otherwise, nah bro
[Xoom General] dudeimgeorge:
also forgot

apple Ram is being up'ed to only 512mb.

and they arent using a Micro sd card

and they arent using a hdmi port

and they arent using a micro usb cord

but its apple so it doesnt matter, right?
[Xoom General] Lothaen:
+1

The few people I spoke to about this said they were waiting for an iPad 2 because they like the sleek UI - can't fault iPad/Phone/Pod for the simple, easy to use, non-breakable UI - but I'd feel trapped and even jailbroken - a broken man...

Xoom caught my eye in the end (was contemplating something like the HTC Flyer but think its too small for a home-wifi-only-tab) and I'm waiting for the £450 wifi version to hit the pre-order so I can pre-order!
[Xoom General] stanglx:
Dude... I think your in the wrong thread... This is the iPAD2 on the fence thread... Not sure what your saying (my Chrome Translation feature is not working) but its not coming across.. you may need to resend the message or your in the wrong thread...
[Xoom General] schnoz:
Lets not all forget about the horrible iTunes that is basically required to sync the iPad. Hrm. I've gone so long without ever needing to install that hunk of junk. That might be the main reason I pick Xoom at the end of the day.
[Xoom General] p-slim:
I'm a little confused, iPad will never have flash or SD support. The fact you have to wait a couple of weeks for flash means they should've delayed the project, your trippin. 1080p video when iPad doesn't have it isn't much of a comparison. When watching comcast on demand on my xoom everything looks a million times better then with my iPad. Everyoe is different and has different needs, but your points are mute except for price
[Xoom General] powercrazy:
First of all, a disclaimer, I own both ;-) I am a self proclaimed hardware whore. I currently use a nexus one but have owned 2 iphones in the past. I have a macbook pro as well as a dell xps, oh and I (or my kids) have an iPad.

Plain and simple, no one can knock apple for shaking up an industry. What they originally did for the phone scene and the eventual tablet scene was a well needed shot in the arm and they deserve the success they have received.

However, on a day to day basis do I use the iPad or iPhone? No. Why? Because while they do the basics very well they are certainly not flexible. Try to do something that Apple doesn't approve of and you'll quickly realize what I mean. While Jailbreaking is cool n' all that, I still prefer my functionality to be sanctioned by the manufacturer rather than hacked in.

As for the iPad2, my biggest complaint about the original iPad (and why my kids now exclusively use it) is browsing. Their browser is horribly slow, scrolling a page and waiting while the checkered pattern cleared up annoyed the crap out of me. And sure, flash sucks but it is a standard - and shame on you Apple for not embracing standards.

So, I genuinely don't care what the iPad2 has over the first generation if they don't fix the browser.

.... although I truly, truly miss Netflix ;)
[Xoom General] jvs60:
^^^^^^Amen!
[Xoom General] dudeimgeorge:
ummm, yeah, hotshot..this is regarding the IPAD2. aside from cameras, its small, typical apple incremental upgrades..****.

Everything that i specified, works for me. and the ipad2 is only doubling its miniscule ram, which isnt going to have that true multitasking...again.

wierdo.
[Xoom General] roebeet:
No point to compare anything with the iPad2, given that it hasn't even been announced yet, and no finalized specs.
[Xoom General] stanglx:
I agree... which is why I am on the fence... I do like the framework - love it actually above iOS - (but I am NOT an Objective C developer and still believe the .Net framework blows them both away) I also love the new UI.. Its far superior over the Apple OS - net net is lets see... Im open to both...

Now the argument of having all those ports, etc. is a mute point in my eyes.... If I will never use them then they are not value add for me...

My order of priority - Screen, Performance, Support (apps, etc.), 2 year longevity, price
[Xoom General] khov07:
What fence?

Whatever magical features Apple will bring to its tablets aside, we can be sure that it will require iTunes, have zero flash support, now or ever.

I love the fact that I can plugin a Xoom or EVO into any PC, grab whatever I need, and move on. OR, I really never have to plug in at all.

Without being able to really manipulate the storage on a device, it really is just an app launcher.
[Xoom General] lanternca:
One rumor is the iPad2 is supposed to be much lighter and thinner. I wonder how much. As much as I like my Xoom (and incredible battery life)...I would like a lighter device.
[Xoom General] Lothaen:
Oh dear... iTunes aka apple bloatware...

I do hate this but there are alternatives
[Xoom General] cheebahawk:
I know they dont have flash or SD support, but the fact is as much as I hate to say this, Apple is on point on not releasing half baked products (Rev A issues aside).

I also think you are ignoring App support, which when taken as a whole iOS blows android out of the water. I love Android for the customization and hackability, but you cant deny the fact that the ****ty closed garden has better apps.

But you are right, my biggest gripe is the price. Can I afford to spend $800 for some electronic gizmo? Yes, do I want to spend that much on a tablet? HELLLSSSS NO. I just feel like Motorola dropped the ball in price, since people like me that are tech savvy are going to be turned off by the price and may flip to the iPad2. Also ppl dont have a clue will also go for the iPad2 due to the hype surrounding Apple. So they will be losing out on a lot of sales

Also I really dont give a **** about SD support, but the fact that it doesnt work is retarded on Google's part. How do you make a OS that doesnt support SD?

Flash is really Adobe's retarded fault.
[Xoom General] cheebahawk:
GASP! You dont root your android devices? No custom ROMS? :p
[Xoom General] ByByIpad:
Bought the Viewsonic Gtablet and returned due to crappy software. Bought it again after the XDA developers came up with new ROMs. Wanted to buy the XOOM, but looks like MOTOROLA is slowing development. TOO bad,they're cuttung their own throats.

Great software sells millions of hardware. Great hardware sells once only to be returned due to unfinished software.

Will look at the Ipad2 tomorrow and either buy that or a 2nd Viewsonic Gtablet at half the price of the ZOOM If IPAD2 disappoints.
[Xoom General] cheebahawk:
Thats how I feel, I waited a year to buy a tablet, so I may as well wait another day and make a decision....
[Xoom General] schnoz:
It just came out that the Xoom costs only $38 more to make than the iPad (http://phandroid.com/2011/03/01/motorola-xoom-components-cost-278-compared-to-ipads-245/). Yet, the device costs $200 more? W.T.F.
[Xoom General] cheebahawk:
Dude it doesnt cost 200 more. YOu are comparing an entry level iPad so let me do the math for you:

iPad 16gb WiFi model $499

iPad 32gb 3g/WiFi model $729 (costs to Apple $245) Profit= 484

Xoom 32gb 3g/WiFi model $799. so retail difference is only $70. (cost to Moto 278) Profit= 521. Total profit difference is 37.

Of course the profit for both companies isnt $484 and $521 respectively. There are R&D costs, marketing costs, etc that eats away at the profits.

Likely Apple has better margins on parts cost as well. So I wouldnt be surprised if Moto isnt loosing money on this. they have been selling iPads for a full year, which means production and all related costs are going down as well. I also believe the cost of Apple iPad is based on the first year production costs. There is no way that the outdated parts of iPad1 still cost that much.
[Xoom General] schnoz:
Greedy bastards. :)
[Xoom General] muyoso:
So what about if tomorrow Apple debuts their new iPad and it has:

Dual core processor

Same resolution screen

bumped storage to 32gb minimum

all aluminum design while significantly lighter

1gb ram

4g radio

larger battery

And they also announce iOS5 with:

iTunes in the cloud

widget support

FLASH 10.2

The AWESOME multitasking gestures they tried out in one of their development builds

I think that would change a lot of peoples minds. I wouldn't put a move like this past them. Makes too much sense. They can explain away the flash inclusion by saying that "hardware wasn't ready yet". Oh, and also, the rumor is that tomorrow Apple is announcing the iPad AND that it will be available to buy tomorrow as well. That wouldn't be good or Xoom wifi sales I think.
[Xoom General] vitodintino1228:
Couldn't have expressed my thoughts any more accurately than this.
[Xoom General] schnoz:
If they could pull this off, they win. But will they pull this off? Hells no. Why not? Because they need features to include for next years iPad 3 that everyone will want when it comes out.

Although I am hoping for a huge change with iOS 5. I think that is their biggest playing card right now. I heard that they weren't going to upgrade their screen and no sd-card still, but if they can pull off a much better tablet oriented OS, I think they will win easily.
[Xoom General] dudeimgeorge:
jesus christ

GUYS

the ipad2 will have 512mb RAM FACT

i swear to you on that. MOVE ON
[Xoom General] Legacystar:
How exactly are you watching comcast on your xoom?
[Xoom General] muyoso:
Next years iPad 3 gets a 2048x1536 screen, quadrupling the current resolution. That is at least the rumor. Also, iPad 3 can get an SD card. That would be enough for a lot of people. They could call it the magical Iris screen or some other nonsense.
[Xoom General] Lady756:
I already have the first gen iPad that is basically used as a Netflix/Hulu/gaming device. I have no real need to upgrade to another iPad. I may pick up one for my fiance for his bday, but that's it.

I own a macbook, a dell, an iPad, an Evo, and galaxy tablet. I'm a fangirl for products I like..not brands/companies. I can't see myself buying another iPad because I like to have greater control over my mobile devices and it may sound silly, but I love widgets. I like to look at my screen and see my calendar and to-do list right there. I like to see news headlines right on my screen or my Twitter feed. Until Apple offers that type of customization for their iPads, I'll only be buying Android mobile devices from this point on. However, I am glad I picked up an iPad on launch date last year. It's come in quite handy on vacations and with Netflix and Hulu, you can't really find a better mobile entertainment device.
[Xoom General] muyoso:
I am in the exact same situation. Bought an iPad at launch and have been waiting for an Android tablet to come along that is worth buying. Sadly still waiting.
[Xoom General] schnoz:
Maybe I'm dumb, but isn't 2048x1536 just double of the current 1024x768 res? Not quadruple?
[Xoom General] schnoz:
For everyone that has a generation 1 iPad - how is the video playback on that? Is it just as bad or better than the Xoom limitations that everyone is seeing? Does anybody know of any tablet that can play divx videos?
[Xoom General] tsekh501:
Double on each side, so quadruple the number of pixel.
[Xoom General] deadmouz:
I know one thing, if you buy technology today - tomorrow its too old.
[Xoom General] tsekh501:
Video playing is very good, exceptional I would say.

I was on the fence whether to buy the iPad last year. Then came the Hulu, Netflix and ABC apps, and I was sold. Bought one right away.

For me, iPad is a purely entertainment device. For media playback and gaming. Work? No way... It's restrictive but simple to use. It's something that I can buy one for my parents and I know that I don't have to spend too much time teaching them how to use. It is not as flexible nor powerful as the Xoom, but hey, for a whole year it's the only real player on the tablet market and there was simply NO alternative. While I can compile a huge list of things that I don't like about the iPad, I have to say, I'm very happy with it the whole year that I'm using it and it's well worth the $500 (not now, but a year ago).

There is an app that can play DivX. I don't remember the name, but you can easily Google it up. But I'm sure it doesn't play all types of DivX file... depending on the bit rate and resolutions.
[Xoom General] schnoz:
I imagine that it can also play video directly over a network then? Hmm. That sounds pretty nice actually. I really wish Xoom could do this as well.