yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
WiMax sucks (at least as it is now) for a number of reasons. I live in NYC, one of the first places to get it:

- Short Range. I go to college on a large campus. There's a tower on this tall smokestack thing on one end of the college. Signal barely reaches the other end. The campus isnt' that long. WiMax is like glorified Wifi.

- Battery Drain. It's ridiculous. Not to mention having to reboot the phone everytime I want to turn it it off. Stupid bug HTC won't fix.

- The fact that I have to actually turn it on and off. Pretty self-explanatory. I don't know if LTE would work the same way. I know HSPA+ is automatic (it's more 3.5G, but the speeds are much better than WiMax's).

Those are pretty much my gripes.
[EVO 4G General] Award Tour:
The worst part is that Sprint 3G is absolutely horrible now. I have to either deal with the problems you outlined or settle for ~500 kb/s. Absolutely pathetic to have a 4G smartphone under these conditions.
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
You're lucky. Since around last month, I've been maxing out at around 100-300 kbps everywhere I go. Luckily, I don't really do data-intensive stuff unless I'm tethering or trying to watch Youtube, but even stuff like refreshing the XDA app and loading the Facebook mobile site (the app sucks now) take 5 times as long.

I called up Sprint and they sent me to tech support. They said that there haven't been any tickets in, but the guy's supervisor/manager said that people have been complaining about slow data in NYC. He put in a ticket for all of NY, using my address as a reference point. But it's not just NY. It seems to be nationwide. People were telling me they've been experiencing the same thing since August. Sprint's customer support is better than what it was, but their service totally sucks. Since I've been with them in August, I've hardly ever hit 1 Mb per second. In NYC? That's kind of retarded. I was lucky to find just one tower, which was in sight on a hill, that gave me 2.3 Mb down. But that's only where I wait for a bus to take me to campus. Where I hit around 80-100 (yes 80) kbps down.

W T F.
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
Guy's, Sprint's thinking WiMax could complement LTE on their network. Yeah...so they don't have to let us out of our contracts or reimburse us for our Evos...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/17/sprint-talks-seriously-about-lte-suggests-it-could-complement-w/
[EVO 4G General] strung:
Wimax doesn't suck. LTE doesn't suck either. Wimax and LTE have the same "building penetration". They both are high speed low latency links. They both have QoS and can do VoIP.

It's just that LTE here is deployed on the 700 Mhz (Verizon) which gives it better penetration, vs. Wimax on the 2.5 Ghz.

Wimax and LTE are just protocols. They're 90% the same. You can deploy Wimax on 700 Mhz, and it will penetrate justa s well as LTE. Sprint is doing this with their 850 Mhz holdings where they run iDen.

Sprint is also upgrading to new software-defined radios on their base stations. Meaning they can run any protocol--LTE, Wimax, Wimax 2, LTE advanced, CDMA Advanced, EDGE, GSM, etc. on any frequency. They'll probably run Wimax and LTE at the same time. There's no reason they couldn't do this easily with an all IP network.

Personally I'm rooting for WiMax. WiMax is the most energy-efficient pre-4G technique among LTE, WiMax and HSPA+. It's a more open standard and is backed by Intel. It has a currently much larger deployment worldwide.

LTE is a separate radio and has to be turned on an off too.
[EVO 4G General] matt2053:
+4
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
It still doesn't solve the battery drain and range issues. Fix those and I'll put up with it. Until then, I'm rooting for LTE.
[EVO 4G General] daMachine:
I'm using the shift 4g. I can get 16+ hours (haven't had a need for more) with 4G on all day.

As you stated signal is sometimes not so great for you, so that may be the same reason for your excessive battery drain. I consistently have 1-2 bars of 4G on the shift. Adding an additional tower should improve things for you, but you are at the mercy of Sprint/Clearwire for that. An (700Mhz) LTE tower at the same location would probably cover you better than Wimax and resolve both the battery and range issues. I'm rooting for someone to deploy with better and more consistent coverage; I'm technology agnostic as long as the product does what it's designed to.

You mentioned you had slow 3G speed. I had the same issue (I'm in PA and also in South NJ), and fixed it with a data profile reset. Before I was getting between 10-120kbps down and 100-200kbps up. After reset, back to normal, 600-1400kbps down and 600-700kbps up in South Jersey. This issue was effecting my Hero, but I came up for an upgrade so went to the shift for more HP (never tried to fix it on the hero). Did the fix on the shift and all is well.
[EVO 4G General] Award Tour:
Plus Verizon are already campaigning for standardized voice over LTE. That means no more powering a second voice radio like you have to on Sprint WiMax/CDMA.
[EVO 4G General] ronnyhawks:
um ive never had to turn my phone off and back on to turn my 4g off. you might want to have your phone looked at. and what hardware are you on? 001, 002, 003, or 004?
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
No, it will display that it's off, but it keeps scanning. Download aLogCat from the market. Now turn on 4G, then back off. Go into aLogCat. You will see red errors saying something like "Scanning 127.0.0.1" (that IP address is your own phone. It keeps scanning and drains your battery.
[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
Yep... and im yet to see ANY Evo that doesnt have that issue. Took me the longest to figure out thats what was killing my battery.
[EVO 4G General] compumasta:
Hey I'm on att so this doesn't affect my phone at all but with all the talk of sprint and clearwire it got me curious. Do clear internet devices connect to the same towers as sprint cell phones for 4g service? I ask because the signal here in Vegas is great and I don't see the need for faster service at all. I mean, realistically what could you possibly be doing that upwards of 6Mbps isn't fast enough for? I use my internet a lot and when I can dl 100megs in a couple minutes and have no lag in internet loading what's the real point? Bragging rights?

Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!
[EVO 4G General] IceCreaMan:
i dont mind switching LTE as long as it doesn't drain my battery like wimax as others have said. VOLTE would be great with just one radio instead of two which is why i like AT&T's HSPDA network none of the on/off radio stuff...
[EVO 4G General] strung:
whitepaper on voice over lte (volte)

http://www.ericsson.com/res/docs/whitepapers/voice-over-lte.pdf

Verizon's HD LTE Voice Calling: Hands On

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380302,00.asp
[EVO 4G General] Visionikz03:
But wouldn't that imply that unless significant bandwidth improvements are made, that a bottleneck will occur with people trying to make calls and pull data from the same signal?
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
Voice over IP is part of any network being 4G, whats special about Verizon saying they are going to do it?
[EVO 4G General] Award Tour:
Things may have changed but last I read, LTE has a standard for VOIP and WiMax doesnt. You can do VOIP on pretty much any data connection but having a universal standard makes adoption and usage much more smoother.
[EVO 4G General] dbarstad:
Bring it on. By time I get out from under my EVO's contract, they will have LTE deployed and there will be a REAL tri/quad-band phone that will handle WiMax/LTE, etc.

D
[EVO 4G General] popular nobody:
I've seen my comments used in different forums, and people thanking them for it. PDF's, quotes, the works. This entire situation I've probably mentioned last month, but not this 4-6 month decision. LTE is a done deal, and has been before Verizon created a soft launch. The evaluation is to see what is Clear going to do, and is if they are worth the investment. It's just an on going saga between these companies. 2 Now back to the reason I've quoted you. Voice over WiMax was supposed to be a major part of the EVO, but it wasn't ready on time. WiMax has the standard for VoIP, but LTE has all of the support. Without Support, WiMax doesn't mean ****. Sprint knew that would be the case, which is why they their entire network is being made to switch to WiMax2, LTE, and LTE-Advanced. Oh, and CDMA 1X Advanced, which keeps being overlooked.
[EVO 4G General] sgt. slaughter:
you guys sure are quick to wanna dump WiMax. I would guess that maybe half even know the advantages of WiMax OR even LTE for the matter. Just complaining b/c the current coverage is not great is a little silly. Regardless of what the coverage maps show they are always not completely true of coverage in areas and thats something that will vastly improve over time, just like it did with 3G when it came out.

LTE will have some better coverage on VZ but the main reason for that is the freq band they are putting it on. Just switching to LTE form WiMax here you guys won't be getting the dirastic improvement you think you will. It will still take it being put on more towers for complete coverage OR on nextels freq even once that is laid to bed.

Point is we shouldn't be bashing WiMax and coming to a harsh decision so quickly. They are still areas that have NO 3G coverage so this whole 4G rollout is going to take some time and we should all be aware of it.
[EVO 4G General] willy900wonka:
Well I can see that if televisions were like cell phones, we'd have to buy separate sets, for different networks.

"Wow man I just got a new 3d tv set it's for FOX net".

"My CBS net has been doing 3d much faster for months".

Just cause a cell phone transmits doesn't mean it shouldn't be on a universal standard. Lease the towers not the spectrum. Build R&D into the standard rather than using market competition.
[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
All that matters to me is the fact that there is both Wimax and LTE coverage where I live.. wimax doesnt work in buildings over here and LTE does. Plus VZW is covering more area in the same cities that Sprint has wimax in..and at a faster pace. If you look at the coverage for both in Atlanta Clear's coverage has 50 million holes in it and VZW's coverage is pretty much a blanket. And having been able to use both at this point LTE is most definitely winning. And the fact that VZW is eventually going to have their entire 3G network covered with LTE is promising. Having a LTE data card I can get service pretty much everywhere I go in the city. Wimax? Not so much.
[EVO 4G General] abanh:
This 1000x. I'm more interested in Sprint improving their 3g speeds. With all of the complaints about the deterioration and slower evdo speed, the 1x advanced build out could help alleviate some of the problem. Plus this will happen much sooner then the build out of LTE.
[EVO 4G General] Jfree3000:
Meh, only read the 1st page. LTE probably wouldn't work at my house just like Wimax, Sprint needs to work on WiMax (signal/towers) before they jump ship to be cool like the other guys.

(Side Rant) Coverage maps be damned, if I can only use 4g near the 2nd story window of my house and only get a poor connection then Sprint has a lot of work to do with WiMax.
[EVO 4G General] nohbdyshero:
The biggest problem with WiMax right now is Clearwire's financial situation. They are running out of $$$ fast! They need capital to continue building the network out. Sprint won't buy them out b/c it will be too expensive of a 1 time hit.

Also, if they continue using WiMax they will be left out on an island, just like Nextel would have been, b/c everyone else will be using LTE.

I work in the wireless industry and they are all focusing on LTE right now, WiMax is dying fast. They will have to switch, just like they are dumping iden (which should have been done the second they bought Nextel).

Good news is Sprint has spectrum coming out of every place 1 can think of so they support the buildout.

By the time they go LTE live (which won't be before 2012 at the earliest b/c they are aren't even gong to make a final decision until late this year whether to even do it or not) none will have the EVO anymore anyway, we will all be on to the next great phone (don't tell me otherwise cause I know better).
[EVO 4G General] sgt. slaughter:
again sprint changing to LTE wont fix the coverage issue less they use more towers, tweak the settings on the back end, or they put it on a different freq. I was mainly talking about the people that say we should ditch WiMax and change to LTE now as they typically dont know wtf there talking about.
[EVO 4G General] popular nobody:
Your initial post was a good one. It's going over people head, because they are the same people who keep thinking it's a technology issue, instead of the frequencies. Sprint switching from T1 Backhaul to Microwave and Fiber, will have a huge impact on their 3G/4G speeds. 1X Advanced is another huge upgrade that will quiet the complaints a little bit. Off topic, but if anyone thinks LTE is not another battery hog, you're a fool. I can't fathom how the hell people came with the idea that LTE phones will have better battery life. My phones didn't get the memo.
[EVO 4G General] nohbdyshero:
Welcome to the difference between 2.4 ghz (wimax freq) vs 700 (LTE). At 700 you can do way more with way less. Sprint, I would hope, would deploy their LTE in the 800 mhz band (they do not own any 700) they have with dumping iden so you would see similar coverage with same amount of towers.
[EVO 4G General] sgt. slaughter:
yeah i remember reading somewhere a tech article claiming LTE devices used less power than WiMax but again it was likely written before any real world device was out for consumers to use so was likely just a guess.
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
Wouldn't a LTE rollout (on the 800MHz freq) be faster? The towers for it are already in place, it's just a matter of swapping the backend equipment. To that end, isn't that all part of Network Vision, which will consolidate all of that equipment into two racks?
[EVO 4G General] sgt. slaughter:
yeah this is what i've been saying. people just dont understand the vast difference between putting the tech on the diff freq will have. like stated before its not a tech issue but a freq one. They could keep the same freq however would need to have more towers to boost coverage. They also could do some tweaks on the backend to extend the range but when they do that they limit the speeds evidently.

In the end the nextel freq will be used for some serious upgrade and sprint will rule at the end. They have the most space to roll out the stuff, it just has to get done.
[EVO 4G General] nohbdyshero:
I drive test wireless networks for a living so I have seen the real difference in all the frequencies, terrains, congestion etc can have on any technology
[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
Um, I fully understand the frequency issue and never said anything about Sprint would be better if they switched to LTE. I said VZW's LTE is better than Sprints wimax.. which it is. Doesnt really matter to me what Sprint does at this point.
[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
At the end meaning most of us probably will never see it.. maybe our great great great grandkids. And thats if they dont end up selling all of the nextel towers and then leasing them like they did their own.
[EVO 4G General] sgt. slaughter:
selling towers and leasing them is a very common practice across the industry btw.
[EVO 4G General] slickrick54:
4g vs. Lte

Wow this would be a major improvement for sprint if they made the switch.:rolleyes:
[EVO 4G General] m4xwellmurd3r:
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[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
Its one thing to sell SOME towers, but almost ALL of them??? Havent seen anyone else do that.
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
I agree about them fixing 3G first. As long as I can hit at least 1-1.5 Mb down on average, I'm happy. For the last month or two, I've been maxing out at 200 kbps everywhere I go. And today I topped of at 80 kbps with 800 ms ping. It's like they inverted all the towers; The places I usually get great speeds (90% of where I go) are where I get slightly-better-than-dial-up speeds.
[EVO 4G General] m4xwellmurd3r:
...this explains my display showing activity for 3hours when I was asleep. I'd really hate to see lte being the only 4g tech out when I've heard so much about the data control it allows. Think it'll change not to allow such control or something? Speed is great, but not at the cost of reduced quality.

Sent from my evo 4g
[EVO 4G General] Justin.G11:
My only concern as other's mentioned is what happens to my EVO.

I would hope they provide a trade in plan for either modified EVOs (using a hybrid chip and I just have to re-root) or a "sprint dollar" equivelant where it can go towards another phone in their lineup assuming you don't leave sprint (should be a reasonable dollar amount, not some petty $100 off either).

The dollar amount would be good ... they could argue we had our phones for a year or so, so the phone is worth only 350$ "sprint dollars" ... enough to trade in for their new mid-tier 4G LTE .... or if we fork down $50 more we can get thier new flagship "OMGWTF4LTE" phone.

People would ***** it wasn't free ... then buy the OMGWTF4LTE model anyway and Sprint will keep it's customer base.

So if I were in charge (lol), we make the offical LTE announcement along side the unveiling of two new LTE phones and our trade in plan ... and peopel are paying forward for LTE just like they did for WiMAX and we all think we got a deal.
[EVO 4G General] Holyrolla:
I think what's being lost is that in the next six months (as of right now), only the Blackberry Playbook will be introduced that is WiMAX capable. With the new LTE phones and iPhone 5 coming out, people will be buying that for the next six months, not a year old Evo, six month old Epic, or a 4G wiMax tablet.

In other words, why wait six months when the only new phone revealed on Sprints 2011 line-up (cough) is the Echo, and that's not a 4G phone. The wImax usage won't increase enough to justify further funding it's build-out.
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
There's also an LTE Playbook on Verizon's site. Sprint could just order those.
[EVO 4G General] Justin.G11:
You know it's related, right?

THE REASON no 4g phones are coming out is because the future of WiMAX is in the air. Writing is on the wall for WiMAX. The only question is how long the two technologies will coexist or if they will rapidly decommission WiMAX. If it's the later, then the question is what does that mean for us EVO owners (who have 4g, of course).

Sprint's "mediocre" showing at the latest shows suddenly becomes clear: they have a restructuring question that needs to be answered first.
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
And that's the right/smart thing to do in this situation.

Likely means an explosion of Sprint phones for summer/fall ;)
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
I feel like my head is going to explode after reading this. LTE vs WiMAX is a moot point, you'll never know ever difference between the two. The frequency being used is what affects performance.

Sprint is most likely considering LTE on it's 800MHz band because that it's what the fcc said they would use for emergency services. Having a network on the same protocol and on a frequency right next to the emergency channels means they will be compatible with that.

All the hype about LTE is just that, in another year or two when real 4G is adopted things will be completely different. As it stands all Clear would have to do is change to 20MHz bands instead of 10 and wimax would blow LTE out of the water speed wise.
[EVO 4G General] TonyArmstrong:
Question on WiMax and LTE

OK, so if Sprint, on the tower/infrastructure side, can apply a software update and perhaps some hardware changes to go from WiMax to LTE, why can't they do the same on the phone side OTA?

Here's my rationale -- someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

The Evo 4G has capability for CDMA in the 800 and 1900 MHz spectrum, along with WiMAX 2.5 to 2.7GHz spectrum. According to an article on radio-electronics.com (I can't post the entire link), LTE is designed to operate in multiple frequency bands, relevant in this case are bands 5, 6, and 18 at about 800MHz and band 40 (~2.5GHz).

Since the antennae in the phones simply catches signal, why wouldn't a software update allow on-board hardware for that radio to capture the signal and decode LTE-spec transmissions?

Some of you were saying that the carriers were planning VoLTE anyway, so why wouldn't Sprint just use their 800MHz spectrum and 1900MHz spectrum to handle voice and data?

Am I way off, or making any sense?

(Of course, I would pick this to be my first XDA forum post.:cool:)
[EVO 4G General] strung:
It might be possible. Stranger things have happened.
[EVO 4G General] Product F(RED):
Because the software patch is supposed to keep the system compatible, but its there because they will swap the wimax cards in the base stations with LTE cards. Our Evos are strictly WiMax only. You'd have to physically open then and swap the chips and rewrite drivers. If they decide to keep running wimax while also running LTE, it would be because they don't wanna replace our phones or let us out of contract.
[EVO 4G General] TonyArmstrong:
I just wanna be clear...There's a chipset in the Evo handset devoted to CDMA radio, WiMax radio, and WiFi radio, yes?

And, you're saying that our CDMA chips (which I presume handles the 3G data as well) can't do LTE?

I'm just curious...
[EVO 4G General] Draiko:
My understanding of the LTE vs WiMax situation...

1. Verizon and AT&T's 700mhz LTE networks are built for voice/video communication, not for data. Lower frequency bands are paired-spectrum use only and any data networks using paired spectrum will choke with higher amounts of data traffic. That's why Verizon and AT&T are throttling, capping, and metering data.

2. Lower frequency spectrum has better building penetration and coverage at lower power with fewer towers needed but, again, due to the issue above and the fewer towers, Lower frequency spectrum networks can't handle larger amounts of data traffic.

3. Sprint has 3 major swaths of spectrum (after rebanding)... 14mhz@~850/860mhz, 120mhz @ ~1900/2000 spectrum, and 80% of the 2500mhz spectrum.

4. Sprint is using multimodal basestation and tower setups now. Any new WiMax enabled tower is pretty much a LTE tower after a small upgrade. It may make sense for Sprint to use VoLTE in their 850mhz band for voice/video comms, use their 2500mhz for WiMax data, and keep their 1900mhz band for EVDO. They could use LTE/WiMax/CDMA trimode devices until WiMax-only devices are phased out, then switch over to LTE-only with the 2500mhz TDD-LTE data network running at 100+mbps speeds. The 1900mhz band could be retooled for LTE as CDMA is phased out. a 2500mhz LTE network could also allow for data roaming in Europe.

Does that sound right?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sageDieu:
I upgraded to froyo a couple of nights ago and on stock everything was good, restored from titanium backup and Screebl was working good. I then installed a pick n pack rom, a theme and a voodoo kernel (lagfix only, no sound or anything) and noticed earlier today that my accelerometer is just plain gone.

I can't play any games that use it, I don't have rotation, Screebl doesn't work, etc... Does anybody know what could be causing this?

(sorry if this is in the wrong forum, wasn't sure where to put it.)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bvd24:
Is it possible that your phone has gotten wet at all? My last one lost the use of the accelerometer (along with a fair amount of screen damage) after dropping it into a shallow puddle. (If not, your warranty should cover a broken accelerometer if you're still under it)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] sageDieu:
definitely not, the most that has happened is a light rain on the screen that I wiped off, nothing that could get to the hardware.