yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] thechicgeak:
Probably the biggest factor in the perception of smooth motion given a frame rate is whether there is a consistent delay between frames as well as if the frame rate is constant.

The Epic's LCD is probably 56 hz, hence the frame limiter. In order to maintain a consistent delay between frames, the frame rate would have to be 56 fps or some fps that divides evenly into 56 fps. More specifically, there would have to be ~18 ms between frames, or some multiple. Removing the limiter and reaching higher than 56 fps will not lead to smoother motion, and could make it worse as well as lead to frame tearing (although it might improve other processing in single-threaded games).

Also, given a consistent delay between frames, I would bet that you could not notice the difference between 28 fps and 56 fps; furthermore, I guarantee you that you could not notice the difference between a 56 fps on a 56 hz screen and 60 fps on a 60 hz screen. Therefore, there is no "magic" that makes 60 hz look better; you are probably just used to 60 hz screens where 56 fps looks choppier than the straight frame rate number might imply (due to very inconsistent delays and a dynamic frame rate).

Keep in mind virtually all television broadcasts and movies run at 24 fps in the US, and they look silky smooth. That is because the frames per second count is very precisely controlled, whereas games frequently have very inconsistent frame rates and thus can look choppier at higher frame rates. I haven't thought of this before, but I believe most TVs are 60 hz (or 120 / 240 hz) whereas the video signals are frequently 24 fps. This makes me think that the higher frequency TVs are just making the delays between frames more and more consistent (indeed 120 hz can make the delays perfectly consistent since 24 is evenly divisible into 120), which would further make me think a 24 hz screen should look just as smooth as a 240 hz screen given 24 fps content. This means you are viewing content with inconsistent delays between frames while watching a lot of TV content (albeit ones that correspond to a defined pattern).

That makes me wonder if games ever implement fps "steps" where they either lock the fps down to a multiple of the refresh rate or ensure that the frames are presented according to defined patterns (e.g. showing the same frame twice, then the frame after that once, then the next frame twice, etc.). I would bet locking a game to 28 fps on a 56 hz screen would look much nicer than allowing a 40 fps frame rate. I would also bet such games are perceived as being more efficient / running more smoothly at lower frame rates than other games that do not take such approaches.

EDIT: The Wikipedia article on frame rate says "Many games lock their frame rate at lower but more sustainable levels to give consistently smooth motion." so I was correct in my wondering!
[Epic 4G General] hazridi:
The difference between 28 and 56 FPS is quite noticeable. The idea that it isn't noticeable is actually laughable. 24 fps on films is only acceptable because of motion blur, which is just a cheap trick.

Also, TVs that display higher than 60 fps are just doing interframe interpolation. There's no extra data being displayed, but there are 5-10 intermediate frames generated between actual frames.

The only correct part of your post is that it would be difficult to notice the difference between 56 and 60 fps.
[Epic 4G General] thechicgeak:
Motion blur is more or less eliminated on modern TVs. They use high quality panels with very quick response times. If there was blur at 24 fps, 60 fps and above would be completely unwatchable. Most gamers rarely experience consistent delays between frames and constant frame rates in games, and so they believe as you do.

I believe most of the 120 hz TVs have the option to turn off those interpolation features and simply repeat frames, and the manufacturers come up with fancy names for their interpolation algorithms.

I stand by all of my theories and claims. I would bet double-blind studies would back me up on this.
[Epic 4G General] houkah:
24fps is actually PAL. In the US it's 30 fps (29.97) since we're on NTSC. Sorry to quibble over details.
[Epic 4G General] thechicgeak:
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. That is actually very relevant because it makes NTSC broadcasts an even multiple of the refresh rate of 60 hz TVs. Although I believe many other sources are still 24 fps.
[Epic 4G General] A_Flying_Fox:
24fps and 60 fps is quite noticeable in videogames considering each frame is its own image.

Id much rather see my character move his arm in a 60frame animation than half that. It'd be noticeably choppy since there's half the pics.

If you can't see the difference between metroid prime 3 and halo 3 (30fps and 60fps, respectively) then there's something wrong.

Don't compare a movie with video games when it comes to fps because movies don't have to draw the human body animation for animation since god or whatever did that already lol
[Epic 4G General] thechicgeak:
One thing I didn't think about that is also relevant is the amount of motion in the content. Content that varies quite a bit between frames (action movies and FPS games) benefit more from higher frame rates.

That being said, I still believe most people overestimate their ability to detect differences in frame rates. There is certainly nothing "wrong" with you if you can't tell the difference. Only a minority of people truly can.
[Epic 4G General] Roisen:
Honestly my favorite hobby is arguing with people who say that they can notice a difference between 100fps and 60fps on their 60Hz screen.

Going beyond the refresh rate of your screen does nothing for you and actually degrades the image through tearing. Your next best option is half of your screens refresh rate, and then half of that, etc.

back to the topic though, unless the hardware is capped at something absurdly low like 30fps, then it's probably in place for a reason. I don't know what the refresh rate on the amoled screen is, but whatever it is would be a great place to cap the framerate since anything beyond what the screen can show is a waste of power. If the refresh rate is 50fps and they capped the hardware to run at 50fps, then they've done us a favor.
[Epic 4G General] nubecoder:
Since we're quibbling over details, maybe you should check your facts.

NTSC DVD = 720 x 480 @ 29.976 FPS

PAL DVD = 720 x 576 @ 25 FPS

As far as 24 FPS (or 24p), that's another story (actually 23.976 FPS and used for theatrical movies).

But seriously, to even try to compare games' to movies' FPS is ridiculous.

They just aren't the same (Dynamic vs Static).

And to get back on topic here, I agree that syncing frame rate with refresh rate is optimal.

There is no benefit in rendering more frames in a second than the screen can display?

With the demise of CRT displays, the days of 120Hz refresh rates are a thing of the past.

And no, my 120Hz TV isn't really displaying @ 120Hz, it's doing some mathamagic to make my brain think that it is.

I also agree with Roisen, they did us a favor if they have enabled "vertical sync" as many gamers know it.

=]
[Epic 4G General] BopChie:
ACS Xtreme Kernel has the FPS cap raised to like 80... 2.1...... now that 2.2 source is live expect big things all over from devs
[Epic 4G General] AproSamurai:
I remember someone saying that the readings for GPS were not correct on that kernel. That the cap was not bypassed but the values were masked off to higher numbers.
[Epic 4G General] pipskicks:
Thanks, I like seeing smooth screens but did not know much about the tech behind it...
[Epic 4G General] bcparker:
Isn't the Epic's refresh rate 68Hz?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D1cygsc_1M

Skip to 8:50
[Vega General] Don.:
Hi Guys,

Im trying to decide between the Advent Vega and the Archos 101 8GB?

They both seem to be a good deal for the price.

Im happy with wireless \ Capacitive screens

The Advent has a better CPU, but less memory and is nearly twice the weight.

Im primarily going to be watching videos and using it as an ereader.

Is there anything else I should take into account?

Which is the better of the two?

Thanks
[Vega General] Zebwen:
I seriously doubt that the Archos will ever get Honeycomb on it, but the Vega it is a good possibility. That's an easy dealbreaker for me.

Other than that, the Vega bloody rocks...
[Vega General] dinompl2:
Vega!

Hi there,

I've tested both of them and the same time and decided to keep the Vega.

The Archos looks finer, but the framed display collects dirt in the corners.

It's not so heavy and has a bigger accu.

The viewing angles are the same (bad, but I can live with that).

My reasons to keep the Vega:

- 1GB DualCore Tegra2 CPU (Archos: SingleCore 1GHz)

- 512MB internal (!!) Memory (Archos: 256MB, the 8GB is external like a sd-card)

- 1080p Playback (Archos: 720p)

- HDMI Out (Archos: Mini-HDMI -> Adpater needed)

- and it's much more fun to use it because it's all smooth, no matter how many applications are running. The Archos becomes laggy when google maps, market, browser are running at the same time.

- And the Vega is highly customizable (custom roms etc.).

But the main disadvantage is the Archos big advantage: accessing NTFS is (by now) not possible with the Vega. On the Archos, just plug in an usb external harddisk with ntfs and it works. But I think it's just a matter of time to get it on the Vega...

Dino

Hope, I could help you a little bit...
[Vega General] sethman80:
Where to buy so, if I dont live in UK? (EU area btw)
[Vega General] the|gamer:
Hi,

sethman search for the Point of View Mobii Tegra
[Vega General] Logseman:
It's worthy to remark that at least in Spain, the Advent Vega is cheaper than the POV Mobii (both are sold in stores).
[Vega General] Don.:
Hi Dino,

Thanks for that useful post, it was helpful.
[Vega General] dinompl2:
You are welcome. Have fun with your...

Advent Vega? ;-)
[Vega General] gadgetuk99:
very interesting that dino...has I was contemplating either archos 101 or the advent...as I originally had a ipad...gave to son for xmas...but wanted android..so bought the galaxy tab...but I find the 7" screen to small..guess steve jobs was right...anyway..i think getting honeycomb on the vega is more likely...so got mine ordered and being delivered on wed morning...so will test it out for a week and decide which I decides best...for me that is...so I hope really to sell the galaxy tab...
[Windows Phone 7 General] dawgmeat:
any ideal why my surround shows like two drives in my computer both same name
[Windows Phone 7 General] ceesheim:
that's normal ,we all have that.
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
good link, will follow it!

i'm sure we can find useful stuff on 2.6.32 and backport on 2.6.29.

differences between arch/arm/msm on both versions are quite big, thus im not sure how easy it is to upgrade photon kernel.

i found a way to get some terminal console and some debug outbut:

just install the HTC Sync for HTC Aria, it gives you the USB ADB driver: link here

Then, in a command window, execute following commands:

adb devices => tells you if your device is recognized
adb shell => launch a basic linux shell

type "dmesg" to have the debug message

"dmesg | /bin/more" to have the same but page by page (press space enter to go next page)

you can also install android applications:

at first look, you can see the kernel is compiled with loaaads of debug output.

and we can already see a recurrent segfault that might be the cause of some of the issues we have.

Note: adb.exe enclosed in zip file of this message
[HD Mini Android Development] _Madmatt:
Maybe it's a good idea to make a list of all issues we experience at this moment in the first post. That way, we can handle them one by one ;)

This is my list now:

- Battery driver doesn't work.

- Maybe that has to do with the battery driver, but when I use my device with Android for about a half an hour (Angry Birds), the back side comes very warm...

- Data not working (WiFi and GPRS as well)

- Buttons need realignment

- Sometimes it happens that when I turn my device off just with the power button, the lights under the hardware keys keep going.
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
guys have you seen here?

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=11390094&postcount=6

Kernel 2.6.32 with Android 2.3 on HTC Aria!

I'm trying to find where they got the kernel 2.6.32, in cyanogen repository the kernel stops at 2.6.29:

https://github.com/CyanogenMod/htc-kernel-liberty
[HD Mini Android Development] _Madmatt:
And can we get Aria kernel working on Photon? Can you do this? :D
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
yes, cotulla used the kernel of liberty (which is HTC Aria)

actually I think I found the latest kernel \o/

https://github.com/attn1/htc-kernel-msm7227

done by attn1, main contributor of cyanogen for HTC Aria/Liberty

let's try this!!!
[HD Mini Android Development] _Madmatt:
Try? Shouldn't we do some modifications first? :p
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
yes, we need to implement cotulla's patch

seems he duplicated the "liberty" files to "photon" in arch/arm/msm and did light modifications

we can do a diff vs the htc aria official source code to have it all
[HD Mini Android Development] _Madmatt:
Can you do that? I don't have enough Linux knowledge :( But I'm always ready to try kernels ;)
[HD Mini Android Development] schlund:
Attention!

i do not want to pick at cotulla, but in fact we want to use his changes for another port it is to say: his code is kind of mess :D

you can really see that he stopped working on it instantly..

Either someone cleans this up or you will really have to understand what he intended to do!
[HD Mini Android Development] tzacapaca:
Well..I think the reason he stopped instantly is here

Cotulla dumped the project few hours after this post,some of you may call it coincidence,but i think Cotulla was reading what we were writting there.

helping someone who is swearing you work is....(i don't wanna use bad words)

if i were him i will do exactly the same!:mad:

we need to be thankful that he even released the working haret for us:)
[HD Mini Android Development] mooncmn:
who can tell ...

hi I want to know about how to custom the haret image. and how to solve the connect problem. so does the battery. so just tell me the general steps.. I am willing to test the image. thanks all the developers.
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
yeah we'll all be interested to have that.

hey guys don't fight ;)
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
agree with you.

i'm not sure every single modification is required (code looks like "modif here, compile and see if it works better"), but it's incredible chance to have a working source code and we all thanks cotulla for his work. this way we have a chance to have a clean code starting from the liberty/aria source code.

it seems he tried to investigate the wifi issue (many wifi files modified compare to liberty) but with no luck.

in the kernel configuration he released, he said we could get the kernel debug traces on the PC.

do you guys know how to get it? plugging usb cable when android is booting does not seems to help.

reason I'm asking is, it seems there are lot of debug informations available but so far i cannot access to them...
[HD Mini Android Development] tzacapaca:
maybe is this

http://droidbar.net/2010/09/how-to-enable-usb-debugging-mode/
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
That option is enabled by default on the 2.2. image that have been posted.

I think you have to use adb tool as said here to see the output.
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
thanks! yeah you see it takes time :)

can you compile the kernel and send the zImage as well?
[HD Mini Android Development] sunnyhj:
mine is 8gb also..kingston SDC4/8gb
[HD Mini Android Development] MobileMini:
Maybe everybody can give some more info about the SD-cards?

SD-card specs:

1. Brand

2. Size

3. Class/Speed

Additional info:

4. SD card is detected and working (or not)?

5. Which Android version did you try?
[HD Mini Android Development] seppe82:
SanDisk 8gb class 2. I never measured the speed, sorry. According so SanDisk it should write at minimum 2 mb/s. But I found this: http://www.jayceooi.com/2010/09/03/8gb-sandisk-microsdhc-class-2-card-review/
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
SanDisk

8GB

SDHC (dont know the speed)

SD ist detected and working

Only tried it in Android Froyo 2.2.
[HD Mini Android Development] farshad xp:
can anyone please upload a working initrid.gz that fixes the sd card to another server like 4shared or any other servers?? i cant download!!!

thanks in advance
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
with schlunds system.ext2 file mine sd card sandisk 8gb is showing and wifi is working.

The only problem with schlunds sys.ext2 file is that my back cover get hot very quickly and it is much slower and laggy than cottullas. dont know why though
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
what i did was, deleted all file except haret.exe, initrd.gz - which is new

startup.txt, system.ext2 - schlunds version and zimage, all other files i deleted. and when andorid booted up, did the wifi fix, got wifi working and sd card was allready showing
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
What startup.txt did you use? can you post the content?
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
this is what my startup file says:

set mtype 3162

set ramaddr 0x00200000

set ramsize 0x01000000

set kernel zImage

set initrd initrd.gz

set initrd_offset 0x00A00000

#set cmdline "rw console=ram1"

boot
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
Hm. Just like mine. Thanks for clarification.
[HD Mini Android Development] spithash:
Finally

Hey guys i finally make the wi-fi work! I deleted everything and i do it from scratch and it worked.

But the SD fix didn't work for me :( At least i have internet now.... :D
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
another thing. Wifi does turn on , but with schlunds sys.ext2 it seems it wont connect. Start connecting then obtaining aadress and then after a while it just says unsuccessful and disconnected. thats it. In cotullas 2.1 i managed to connect to my home wifi
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
That seems to be a bug in Froyo (2.2.)

You have to assigne the ip address manually.
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
how do you do that?
[HD Mini Android Development] tzacapaca:
click on home button and go to advanced settings
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
OK, got it working. didnt see that there were dns slots also :P
[HD Mini Android Development] jarugut:
Hello all,

Sorry to my english. Your job are fantastic.

I have problem with market in the schlund 2.2, in this version the wifi and sdcard are working fine, but when I try to download any app from market this download don't do it anything.

I try with cotulla version 2.1, with this versión the market working fine but said me that don't have space, but the big problem is that in this version the wifi is working fine but the sdcard don't work.

¿Could you help me?

Thank you for your support.

Good Job
[HD Mini Android Development] sunnyhj:
Hi guys...My Android 2.2 finally detected my sd card...i can confirm that probs are with SD cards not the kernels..i changed my 8gb card with another and it detected my sd card.. :) now my wifi and Sd card both works...so those whose wifi is working and not sd card..try to change the sd card...
[HD Mini Android Development] tzacapaca:
and what card u got?
[HD Mini Android Development] jarugut:
All the people can install aplication from Market?

¿is it necessary create any directory manually?
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
Please post your question in the right thread. This is development, not support!

And NO, you dont need to create any directory.
[HD Mini Android Development] jarugut:
sorry, I just wanted to know if it was the only one the market does not work, because I've tried many things and nothing has resulted.
[HD Mini Android Development] sunnyhj:
i swaped my 2gb Sandisk with a no brand card of my friend ...and it worked.. :)
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
Thanks cardsharing!

Sadly your package did not solve my wifi problem. But its good to have all in one now :)

But now adb is no longer working. device is not found :(
[HD Mini Android Development] rasoooli:
Thanks cardsharing!

SD Card Worked Fine . ;)

WiFi :

WiFi TurnOn : OK

WiFi Find & identify Network : OK

But Cannot Connect To Network ( The phone says it is obtaining IP address From ***** (My Network Name) and after some time it says "Disconnected" & Try To Connect Again & Again ...:(

----

I Discover New Thing About My Camera

Camera's Menu Are True but Preview Rotated 180 Degree . Woow...

Sorry for English

Thanks
[HD Mini Android Development] fatslim:
you have to manualy set your ip to your device. Then it will connect
[HD Mini Android Development] codiak:
No, I dont se "turning on". In 2.1, wifi is ok. I mentioned that in the wifi thread.

Does adb work for you? It worked with schlunds and cotullas system.
[HD Mini Android Development] sunnyhj:
Hi.. Sorry for asking this but can u or anyone else who downloaded the Photon.rar file ulpoad it to anothor file sharing server.?? I've been trying to download this for 6 hours..!! it starts but then stops after sometime and i have to wait for an hour to restart the download...

Thankz:)
[HD Mini Android Development] derefas:
thaks for logs i'll working with it
[HD Mini Android Development] derefas:
i thik problem in permision for mnt
[HD Mini Android Development] extremetech:
Thanks

everything is working great now :) connected with wifi manual ip .. sd card is working... syncronized with exchange aswell... :) great job .. next would be some fixes on the screen alignment, mic, mobile data service and battery :P
[HD Mini Android Development] JAntrobus:
Hmmm, ok. I take it the 'boot' is the executable that you get once you compiled your C & H files? If so, it seems to be the actual htc_wifi_nvs.c is changing the MAC address to the default as its failing to find the MAC address on the chipset?

I would suggest changing:

static unsigned char *nvs_mac_addr = "macaddr=00:11:22:33:44:55\n";

to

static unsigned char *nvs_mac_addr;

As the code is then over-writing your set in the startup? Thats what i'm seeing anyway, I could be wrong.

By changing it to that, its not setting it to a default... instead it should read your set by the startup.
[HD Mini Android Development] derefas:
**** yeah

unsigned int	read_only;
[HD Mini Android Development] JAntrobus:
Huh? Whats that in? is this regarding reading the SD card?
[HD Mini Android Development] derefas:
i need datasheet to battery chip, how can disassemble hd mini do this and make any photos of chips
[HD Mini Android Development] Ell cullend:
hi, can you post a link from a different download site like fileshare please? for some reason it wont let me download from this sight, when i click on the allow download at the top of the page nothing happens. thanks. think its great what your all doing
[HD Mini Android Development] derefas:
for cardsharding

on 4pda posted fotos disassembled mini

i'll work with battery now http://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=190429&st=820
[HD Mini Android Development] MobileMini:
When I was looking for a new battery, I saw on a webshop that the battery for the HD Mini and the HTC Gratia are identical (like almost all other hardware).

So since HTC has made the Gratia kernel source public, shouldn't it be possible to get the source from the Gratia kernel (or even from the Aria kernel)?

http://developer.htc.com/
[HD Mini Android Development] tzacapaca:
battery chip isn't the same thing as battery itself...there is a battery chip on phone's motherboard,so they need the exact model of the chip,unless you want a fried phone :p
[HD Mini Android Development] MobileMini:
Ok my bad, I thought it was some sort of a chip inside the battery, like whats the case with laptop batteries. Thnx for your explanation :).
[HD Mini Android Development] -r0bin-:
true.

but if we are lucky the chip is similar to Aria/Gratia and only needs a little bit of fine tuning...

it seems to be the case since there is only one battery driver for all the HTC msm based phones.