yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant General] ctkatz:
i agree with what sahil said.

especially the part about defenders not being t-mobile employees.

i don't use t-mobile tv. it's not worth the extra cost. in fact i hear it called "bloatware" not included in roms more often than not. those 9 hours of video i quoted are files sitting on my hard drive that i downloaded from my wifi network. even if i did use t-mobile tv, it isn't worth watching over 3g especially if i know i'm going to take a data hit. its why there were a bunch of fixes to get wifi only apps to work over 3g. yes you could use those apps over 3g patched or not but was it ever advisable?

which brings me back to my point: what in (insert diety here) name are you doing to use up all that data? people using those datahog apps all the time are NOT the typical users. to treat them as typical isn't fair to just about everyone else who doesn't use those apps over 3g.
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
so to people *****ing about the throttling (stop calling it a cap), hypothetically, what would you be willing to pay for unlimited hspa+ speed? $50/month just for your data plan? $15/Gb over 5Gb?

because you wouldn't be getting it for the same $20/month you pay now...
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Streaming music and streaming video are 2 completely different things,music is encoded on a much lower bit rate and doesn't have a video stream.

I have streamed Pandora even on Edge,now i can't do that with youtube.

There are several member of T-mobile here,it may not be every one that defend it,but the majority of those who do it are t-mobile suck ups.

Just because you bough a car and drive it just to go to work,doesn't mean i should not drive mine where ever i want,i choose a unlimited plan just for that,if most people don't get near the 5GB mark why do they choose unlimited data,why don't they go with 200MB.?

Either way since when 5GB = Unlimited.?

In fact in adds T-mobile actually dare to advertise Unlimited 4G data.:eek: You know what this imply don't you right.?

That T-mobile is actually using false advertising to suck people in,because they actually cap people at 56KB speeds.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Well, I am paying $80/month total now (voice + data + messaging), so I don't know...

HSPA+ provides speeds over 14 mbps. At 14 mbps, you reach throttling in:

(5 GBytes) * (9 bits/byte) / (14 mb/sec) / (60 sec/min) = 54 minutes

I personally have never transferred enough data to be throttled (5GB), because I do not use the new media/apps. Theoretically, though, I would be perfectly happy (today) with 3-5 mbps and throttling at 25-50 GB. I believe that some throttling threshold is necessary/desirable to prevent the unauthorized reselling of bandwidth. However, that threshold should be as large as any user might burn with legitimate/promoted apps. So, I don't know, maybe some movie freak with a two-hour commute who streams HD during commutes and on weekends, etc. The good news is that such bandwidth will (soon, I believe) become available as the carriers build out capacity. The situation that we are discussing is temporary, believe me. The commodity is bandwidth. When the carriers have it they will not hide it under a bushel of course; they will sell it!

An important point of the OP is that we do not need more speed, we need capacity. Humungous max speeds are being built out because that is marketing sexy. But these speeds are a marketing illusion because the capacity is missing. Thus, you connect to a 20 mbps HSDPA+ tower and get 1.5 mbps because the HSDPA+ sub-channels associated with the transceiver to which you connect are being shared between so many people. To see this in action, go somewhere in the near vicinity of a tower at 3:00a and check your download speed. Only then are you likely to see these advertised/hyped HSDPA or HSDPA+ speeds. For example, I have been able to connect at 7.1 or so mbps with my Vibrant (the maximum supported speed with the Vibrant decoder chipset) at 3:00a.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
I don't care what you use your cell phone for,you could use it to balance a chair,or to stop paper from flying away,that doesn't mean i should do what you do,and the fact that you use a wifi network mean nothing,why because i don't need to have a home connection to go into the internet and watch a video,why because i bough i phone that allow me to watch videos on it,pretty much any where.

I can use youtube all day,and you can cry fault or abuse,the fact is that Thief-mobile sold me and unlimited data plan with my phone,in fact is damn mandatory to get the 200MB rip off or the unlimited (not really unlimited) plan,and you can't drop your data plan,because that is how they get back to you.

Is and incredible well done scam,where they offer even Unlimited 4G data,only to cap you at 5GB,which is not even the size of a dual layer dvd a 1997 format.
[Vibrant General] sahil04:
If you hate it so much why don't you go to verizon? You can pay for their more.expensive plans and get unlimited data. And your argument applies both ways, not everyone uses as much data as you so the 5 gig ccap is enough, you are the exception not the norm.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Now i am willing to pay nothing more than what i am paying,why because i was sold and unlimited data plan,AT&T did not sold me an unlimited plan,they sold me a limited one,but it was there,T-mobile sucked me in with the whole Unlimited data at 3G speeds,only to cap me for using it.

The problem here is not the ones who tether which T-mobile people claim are a small number,because ones those pass 5GB they are cap,yet you hear people complain about how low speed get after 12PM,is not people tethering is the tons of people T-mobile is bringing in each day,and more and more until the network can handle no more.

The real problem with T-mobile is the one that almost all companies have greed,they have more clients than their network can support,and they blame a few that are tethering to keep people at bay with a cap that should not even exist any way because it is Unlimited.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Sprint has real unlimited data dude,but why should i go any where.? T-mobile scam me with the whole Unlimited data plan.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Maybe you should go back to school and learn the real definition of Unlimited,or maybe you can search for it online i dare you.

Read that add and tell me is not a scam what they are doing,Unlimited 4G DATA i rest my case.

Edit.

lol they even openly say experience UNLIMITED high speed internet,unlimited high speed internet..lol and some how is not a scam.
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
that's ridiculous. currently, cableone (my cable provider) charges $50/month for 5Mb down and 1Mb up with no throttling or limits. that's about as fast as tmob's network on hspa/hspa+ and it's not mobile.

look at clear, they charge $45 for the service with no throttle limit.

it's not corporate greed, around $50/month for no throttle, no download limit connection is the going rate.

wanting something for $20/month when the going rate is $50/month is just plain dumb.

and don't try and play victim with 'tmob sucked me in' is says plain and clear:

"Your data session, plan, or service may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted if you use your service in a way that interferes with or impacts our network or ability to provide quality service to other users, if you roam for a significant portion of your usage, or if you use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth during a billing cycle."

that is exactly what you signed up and pay for.
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
read the fine print on your own picture. lol....
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
yeah, but only $25 or $35 is your data+text (depending on if you have unlimited sms or not). basically, the data plan comes out to $20/month per line.

the current going rate for an unlimited connection with no throttling/download limits is $45-$55/month, there is no way you are going to get the service other companies offer for over 1/2 off the going rate.

now if you were paying around $50 a month for your data alone, i'd agree throttling is outrageous (tmob's 5Gb webconnect i would say is probably a bad plan for $40/month for example).
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
It is ridiculous that is why so much people have bite,if not my fault that T-mobile dare to advertise unlimited high speed data,is theirs so comparing them to cable does nothing,why because T-mobile is actually the one to blame if they wanted to sell a limited plan they should have not advertise unlimited.

Don't you people get it.? If you get something advertise and you get something else it is a scam the US government has been fighting this for ages,companies who advertise services they don't have or that they don't achieve after selling them to the costumer,Verizon pay for it already it was force to pay,and T-mobile on august last year got them self a law suit for the cap.

No is not plain dumb when you are getting bombarded with add falsely claiming that they give you Unlimited high speed internet,look at the add i just posted and stop been on denial,is T-mobile wrong doing not mine they are over promising and under delivering big time,Unlimited doesn't mean 5GB sorry.

Yeah but it doesn't say anything about a 5GB cap,and it doesn't say what it is consider to be abusive,in fact where is the proof that 2 or 3 million people could not got into the internet because my phone was using all of T-mobile internet.?

Yeah you will not see that because that is a pathetic excuse use by T-mobile to justify their claims,worst my phone i got it on radio shack and is in Spanish my contract it doesn't say anything of what you are saying about which is the small words on that add.
[Vibrant General] sahil04:
Maybe you should learn how to read fine print, go on, I dare ya.

Your internet doesn't stop at 5GB, that's where the high speeds stop. You still have access to the internet after that, it's just at lower speeds(whether or not it is useful doesn't matter legality wise).
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
So, as I mentioned, I pay $80/month to T-Mobile for unlimited everything except minutes, which I believe is 1000 minutes.

Am I not subject to being throttled, then? (Maybe I am missing something here.)
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
well if you are saying tmob's marketing is misleading then i agree, but when every company does it, it doesn't make it right, but i'd say its unfair to target a specific company. for example, the '4g' marketing bugs me, but i don't exclusively blame tmob for that.

i'd also say that your time of access numbers are misleading. you make is sound bad that it takes less time to access that much data, but just because access times are faster does not mean the requests for that access are going to increase. if i'm just web browsing, then the page taking less time to load is good, but that doesn't mean i suddenly need to access more data or go to more sites, if that makes sense. otherwise, perhaps everyone should be on edge so their monthly access time is longer, even though they are accessing the same 5Gb (or whatever their usage is). for me, the point is more that 5Gb of data is a lot to access just on a phone right now. in the future this will obviously change just as the throttling limit will inevitably go up.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Yeah i did where is the 5GB cap and the 56KB part on the small letters.? yeah lol back at you,so in one end T-mobile openly in big letter claim UNLIMITED 4G DATA,and in the small one say .

Your data session, plan, or service may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted if you use your service in a way that interferes with or impacts our network or ability to provide quality service to other users, if you roam for a significant portion of your usage, or if you use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth during a billing cycle."

Where are the numbers to what they consider disproportionate amount of data,where is the 5GB warning,hell where is the warning stating that application that are advertise on your phone will not work.

Every one can find a hole,lawyers are great doing so,i am just waiting until they are force to settle and had to pay me back,like Verizon had to do.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
So, I would not be subject to throttling if I paid T-Mobile say, $100-$110/month? What is that plan called?
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
i'm talking hypothetically, if tmob were to have a plan that did not throttle, their data plan cost would be more aligned with the current going rate. reread the original question: hypothetically, what would you be willing to pay for unlimited hspa+ speed? $50/month just for your data plan? $15/Gb over 5Gb?

you pay $80 for a minute plan and a data plan. the data plan is bundled with texting and costs either $25 or $35 a month depending on your texts (which unlimited is $35). so without data, unlimited texting is $15/month so your data plan costs $20/month. you are paying less than 1/2 the going rate for a plan that does not throttle or have download limits.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Ahhh...the theoretical plan... I see.
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
tmobile gets to determine what they consider abuse and disproportionate use on their network. in fact, they don't have to even throttle you, they can disconnect your data. right now they deem 5Gb to be disproportionate use/abuse.

if you can't comprehend that, well, that's not my or tmobiles fault...
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
yeah, the point being: expecting tmob to give a very small minority of their customer base a service for less than half the going rate of said service is absurd.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
I did and since my contract is in Spanish it doesn't say the same the one in english,also i got my phone on Radio Shack which is an reseller authorized by T-mobile,in my contract there is nothing of that sort,is the reason i am so mad.

Yeah and so do my application advertised application like the android market,in fact 9 out of 10 pages would not even load while capped,and like i told you advertised apps will stop.

No were in my contract say anything about a cap,anything about my phone applications not working and doesn't say anything about 56KB either.

Oh maybe you should read the part on the add i posted that say UNLIMITED high speed internet,maybe you miss it,so how is T-mobile giving UNLIMITED high speed internet when i have 56KB.?

Read the add i posted,bigger than life UNLIMITED 4G DATA,there is not a single way a lawyer can go around that one,it is been advertise.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Yeah Verizon also think that when they put the 5GB cap and were force to settle.

Yeah but they have to disclose it,so that people know,but then again in those incredible small letter it doesn't say anything about 5GB,either way it say pretty big UNLIMITED 4G DATA,is incredible you want to give credit to the incredible small letter,but the huge ones use to bring the customer in you don't.

T-mobile is doing false advertisement,and i just hope they get found guilty of doing so,so i can either enjoy real unlimited data,or they release me of the contract without penalty.
[Vibrant General] sahil04:
P

Read.that, it was posted earlier in this thread which clearly states the limit for a Spanish contract.

Oh and it is not false advertising because of what they included in the fiend print. If the fine print wasn't there then yes it would be false advertise but they clearly.state any abnormal use can be throttled or even disconnected as they see.fit if.it.affects other customers.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Actually it is absurd,but who in hell actually force them to offer free unlimited data.? You me or people in general.? No they decided them self to offer something that their network just can't deliver.

It is sad because i don't have a problem with T-mobile,i have a problem with the false advertisement they are doing,and yes read my add for the 20th time is say unlimited high speed internet.

Once you go there you just can't cap some one to 56KB,how will you claim that the costumer still has high speed internet when he is been capped at 56KB,unless T-mobile now consider 56KB to be high speed internet.
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
well tmob doesn't have a cap, they throttle, and they state that they can and will terminate disproportionate users/abusers.

but i don't care, go get a lawyer and try and sue them. lol
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Yeas i did read that,that is not what it say on my contract dude,in fact what it is say in my contract is barely a line long.lol

""Los planes de datos podrian contar con limitaciones de volumen y de otro tipo.""

Which mean

""Data plans could count with volume limitations and other types.""

That is it that is all related to data my contract show,wait before you go into the volume thing,mind you there is no 5GB remark on my contract,in fact no termination for disproportionate use nothing,see now why i am so mad.?

I don't know if it was T-mobile or is it Radio Shack,because the paper has a T-mobile logo.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
For years wireless carriers have played fast and loose with the word "unlimited," advertising their services as such but then quietly imposing caps (usually 5 GB) or other restrictions. While Verizon Wireless had their wrist slapped back in 2007 for the practice by New York's Attorney General, that still didn't stop many carriers from continuing the practice. Now T-Mobile is being sued in California for inaccurately advertising their limited (10 GB) data services for smartphones as unlimited. Complains the suit:

The only warning given to consumers, according to the suit, is a statement "on the very last page of [a T-Mobile] brochure, buried in minuscule type barely readable, [that] 'Your data session may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted if you use your service in a way that interferes with or impacts our network or ability to provide quality service to other users ..."

All of that said, the solution for carriers who don't want suits, user complaints or AG investigations seems pretty simple: stop using the word unlimited, and make your service restrictions clear. False advertising is false advertising, and wireless carriers have been trying to have their cake and eat it too on this front for years. The definition of unlimited is clear, and burying limits for your "unlimited" data plans in fine print on page 50 of your terms of service doesn't change that fact.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/TMobile-Sued-For-Offering-Limited-Unlimited-Service-109801

I don't have to they already have been sued,and the out come of the suit will hurt or help me,but read that last bold part well so you and your T-mobile employee friends learn once and for all and Unlimited means unlimited.
[Vibrant General] ctkatz:
"Unlimited" means exactly how t-mobile defines it. If you don't agree with that, you only have yourself to blame because you signed the contract.
[Vibrant General] n2ishun:
No swifty, you are wrong.

Unlimited means "without limits".

Just because Tmo defines surprise buttsexorz as indelible ink does not change the chafing you will incur. :þ

Get it ?

My contract says "unlimited internet access" in clear words with no added stipulations on those words.

That means if I get capped or throttled I will be the proud recipient of vast monies of varying denominations when I sue them to within an inch of thier lives.

Shove that up your biased definition.
[Vibrant General] sahil04:
They clearly defined it in their fine print andits your fault you didn't catch it to signing the contract. Feel free to waste time and money in court attempting to sue them but you have no chance.
[Vibrant General] n2ishun:
It is not defined in any such way on my contract.

I have the "total internet" package (which they no longer have) and am grandfathered into that plan.

Yes, I have fully read my contract and completely understand it.

You, of course, have never seen my contract, and so, assume.
[Vibrant General] sahil04:
Your data cap is determined by the Terms and Conditions you are under not the data plan you have. If you extended your contract recently your bound by the throttling and/or data cap.
[Vibrant General] n2ishun:
So....

Why am I not being throttled or capped and everyone else is ?

Hmmm.

You are assuming many things, just like trying to redefine a word to suit a corporate bottom line.
[Vibrant General] SamsungVibrant:
Why is this in the Vibrant forum?

I've noticed a trend of people posting stuff in the Vibrant forum that has nothing to do with the phone specifically.

Shouldn't this be posted in a T-Mobile forum, not in the Vibrant xda forum.
[Vibrant General] n2ishun:
Here, if it helps you to understand.

Today, 4 hours, nearly 1.5 gigs.

Tethered, you can tell by the default "android AP5112" network.

No throttle, no cap.

My month ends on Monday and I'll pay my bill then so that will be the 31st day of this billing cycle.

I don't think you could pull 1.5 gigs in 4 hours being throttled :)
[Vibrant General] sahil04:
That's the thing, not everyone is being capped. Im thinking it has something to do with monthly useage trends with the customer.
[Vibrant General] CitrixLemon:
I'm currently satisfied with the soft cap on data. I don't use that much and I make sure I'm on WiFi if I need to download something big like a game. Also your example with 2 megabytes a second is way to high for normal usage, and if you're using your phone (tethered or otherwise) as your main internet source, then you're not using it as intended.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
See posts 52, 54, and 75 for data rates associated with "normal" usage (services that T-Mobile "intended" because they are advertising them and releasing apps for them).
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
My contract doesn't say any of the warning the English one has,again Unlimited means Unlimited you have 2 different argument that contradict each other,you can't have that on your contract in special when the one that favor the customer is very big,while the one that punish it is almost unreadable.

I know you T-mobile defenders will spin it for ever,but the reality is that they are openly lying about the service,to the point of offering unlimited high speed internet,something that they are not delivering once they cap your connection.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
No is not not our fault that T-mobile has 2 contradicting arguments of their contract they even offer unlimited high speed internet with that lone they can't throttle you,lets see who the law favors,but i warn you Verizon was already punish for it and pretty much settle for money,there is a precedent already.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
""Los planes de datos podrian contar con limitaciones de volumen y de otro tipo.""

This is ^^^ all related to my data plan that is in my contract,where is the warning about 5G,were is the warning of termination of contract,yeah is barely 1 line long.

T-mobile scammed me.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
No disrespect mean but i have a Vibrant,and is from T-mobile and when i use my Vibrant applications T-mobile cap me.

I think we can discus this here,i also think that ever one that is been cap and those who are against the cap,go to T-mobile forums and make threads about this,and post and complain,as you can see there is and Army of people from T-mobile ready to defend every single bad act T-mobile does.

Look what fighting for the Samsung bring us,better understanding from the company who was suppose to the be bad guy,i think is time to pick on carries are well,which are the ones that actually sell you the features the phone has.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Bull crap the Mytouch 4G is a wireless hub advertise by T-mobile which also has video calls which use a ton of bandwidth and the Mytouch 4G users also get cap,tethering is a feature of the phone,if they don't want a feature they should have the manufacture block it,like AT&A does with the captivate feature that allowed you to install application not downloaded from the market.