yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Nope, not user error. You're just trying to prop up flash because you think it's some internet savior.

Flash degrades browser performance. Get off XDA and search the internet. The matter is not a user error (lol, seriously?) and is quite well known.

Of course, in a year you'll probably get to buy a quad core Android phone which will mitigate flash's issues.

But on most phones out these days it's terrible, and I can't even imagine what it's like on a mid-ranged device...

You cannot uninstall Flash. It's in the ROM. You can only uninstall the updates that you download from the market.

The same way you can't just uninstall Kindle or Amazon MP3 from a Vibrant.

The only way you can just uninstall Flash is if you're using a Custom ROM that doesn't come with it baked in, or a Nexus phone with Stock Android that required you to download it from the Market to begin with.

You cannot uninstall Flash from a Vibrant with stock ROM. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You don't think I've tried that?

Perhaps you can Root and rip it out, but it still won't give you back Flash Lite, which actually could play embedded content on half the websites out there, and did not come with Full Flash's destructive performance degradations.

Only a retard can use a JI6 vibrant beside a KA6 Vibrant and tell me the browser with full flash doesn't exibit terrible performance compared to the browser with only flash lite. There are benefits to flash, but the detriments, by far, outweight them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Again. Flash cannot be uninstalled off of a T-Mobile Vibrant with Stock Froyo. You can root and get it off, but the average consumer will only know "browser is terrible, give me another phone without a laggy browser."

You cannot just Uninstall Flash from an Android phone when it's baked into the OS. You can't do it.

And yes, Flash performs terribly.

The Dell Streak 7 has 1GB RAM, and two processor cores. Of course it performs nicely on your computer. Java sucked too and people with high end computers said it was "fine." Does not compute...

No, you cannot uninstall Flash off of a Vibrant. You can only uninstall the updates.

You can't uninstall Slacker, T-MobiTV, Wifi Calling, Amazon Kindle, Amazon MP3, etc.

It's basically a bloatware. The only way to avoid it is to root and get it off, or use another browser.

And yes, it has terrible performance. I've factory reset my phone like 3x since the update. Even on a clean phone, it performs terribly.

EDIT: Just checked again. Cannot be uninstalled either through the Market or through Settings. I uninstalled the updates, but Flash was still on the phone and of course I got an update notification from it in the Market. It's just another bloatware baked into the ROM. Have to root to get it off, have a Stock Android phone (Nexus One, Nexus S), or use a Custom ROM that doesn't have it baked in. And like I said, there's no way to get Flash Lite back once you take it off, because they replaced Flash Lite in the ROM with full Flash...

Also, I already said Flash Lite was fine on phones. READ. Flash and Flash Lite are totally different beasts. I don't know why the hell you keep bringing it up. Flash Lite was fine. Full Flash runs like crap and slows your browser down.

Have two Vibrants here. It's not user error, and it's not specific to MY phone. Jeeze.

Flash Performance issues on Android were well known since it was in Beta: http://obamapacman.com/2010/05/andr...-test-adobe-flash-performance-a-little-buggy/ -- it has not improved much, if at all. The fact that manufacturers bake it into their ROMs makes it worse, because now you're dependent on both your Manufacturer/Carrier AND Adobe for maintenance fixes to keep the performance of your phone up to par. The browser scrolls and pans terribly with flash enabled. Galaxy S phones don't have a hardware accelleration profile for Flash yet, so it uses significantly more battery life (maybe this has changed in the recent past, but that has not been my experience seeing my phone die in 4 hours when viewing lots of flash content and/or video on websites). Sometimes the browser just plain locks up.

Going to sites like TechCrunch or TMoNews is painful because there are tons of flash videos on the page and it makes it impossible to scroll reliably in the comments sections on sites like that...
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Don't really see much of a comparison between the two OS's, Android is miles in front of WP7. WP7 is no more than a beta system, unfortunately we HD7 owners are part of microsofts free testing team.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Vagabond83:
this is 2011.And wp7 have no lot of things.

Today os must be closer to desktop os.And what is this?To many limitation...

Ok this is high performance os but...what we can do whit that,besides playing games?

I hope htc will create some os,'cuz i think they know wath they doing.

Sorry for poor english.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
not sure which ROM you used, but I watch football games and all sorts of stuff on my phone using flash and it works beautifully, WP7 really needs flash and I'm sure they will get it at some point.

Android right now is better than WP7, no doubt about it. WP7 is coming along nicely, but to expect it to actually compete with an OS that's had years to mature is too much. Let's compare them in 2013 and it might be a different story.
[Windows Phone 7 General] amtrakcn:
No, being close to desktop OS have benn proven a really bad idea. The fate of WM is still there.

After all you phone is a phone. It will be extremely uncomfortable for many application to run on a 4in screen, though they have the computing power.

Also some "full feature" means you and apps can heavily modify the system. Eventually it will take you more time maintaining your phone than actually use it.

And always, you do have a limited battery.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
helping hand...

its apparent you don't like flash. I don't care one way or the other about flash. I'm only posting this to help:

1 root the phone

2 install flash (hold on, you'll see why

3 install adfree

4 update adfree's host file

5 browse and enjoy

that was the help part here is the help-yourself-out-next-time part:

do not buy subsidised phones. buy an unlocked, free to root, free to enjoy, more costly up front - phone.

do not pay your telephony provider to force software on you, and they will learn. vote with your wallet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Used properlyAUTO KILLER will give Android as good battery life as anything WP7 can offer, after all WP7 is basically a bare bones beta at this time, and probably for the foreseeable future.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Vagabond83:
ok...if u want phone to be phone why just dont buy NOKIA phone?

If u dont want lot of apps cuz performance,then do not instal it.

In wp7 is to limitation and this is real story.This is just another ios.Only loyal win users will buy that.Same like Aple users...

why buying something were i canot do what i want?

Cuz there is a name of big company?
[Windows Phone 7 General] kasrhp:
Being an Android guy from the G1, to N1 and then G2, I like the WP7 environment a lot better. The entire ecosystem is more consistent, and the minimum specs sure help out a lot with performance across the system. Android wasn't nearly as polished, and it sure has a ways to go with the software update situation. With the announced improements coming this year, we should really start to see WP take off. Look at the Android launch. It will happen, and Nokia will help.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That's not what I'm talking about.

It's not hard to click on a video and make it full screen and just watch it. In that case the only time you'll have issues is if the file is encoded badly for mobiles and/or your phone lacks hardware accelleration for the video decoding.

I'm talking about browsing websites with flash content on them. Scrolling is bad and in some cases huge flash ads pop up on your phone screen which block a lot of you view. These issues with flash have been discussed ad nauseum. Use google. Not gonna continue this discussion.

It always seems to WorksForMe™ for you people :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Flash is pre-installed. You don't install it, it's there by default. You cannot uninstall it off a Vibrant. How many times do I have to say this.

The rest doesn't matter. I'm not saying I want to uninstall it, because I don't care. I have an HD7 OTW and this Vibrant looks like it's gonna sell tomorrow for $325 which lets me ETF it with $125 left over to buy XBox games or what not.

The trick is to avoid a smartphone OS that allows the carrier or manufacturer to embed crapware in the phone without giving the user the choice to uninstall it, IMO.

Subsidized phones have nothing to do with it. Subsidized or not, I'm not paying a premium to hack around a phone just to make it not suck for browsing, and the ads are much less of an issue than the performance degradation going from Flash Lite to Full Flash.

If Flash Lite was in the marketplace, I'd probably have already rooted and taken it off, but now I have no choice but to deal with the ****ty performance because otherwise I'll have absolutely no Flash Capabilities (while Flash Lite wasn't perfect, it worked well enough and I didn't have to keep plugins set to On Demand while still having my browser performance raped into oblivion).

That's too much work just to get the browser to not lag like **** on a high end Android phone, IMO.

I don't "hate" flash. I just hate flash on mobile phones. Flash is perfectly usable on my overpowered PCs, because they have more RAM, multiple cores, and ridiculous GPUs and Desktop Flash + IE9 has Hardware Accelleration/GPU Offloading. Flash is a resource hog. Installing AddFree will stop the popup ads, etc., but it will not stop Flash from destroying browser performance on sites that have multiple flash videos embedded where you have to scroll through comment sections, etc. Scrolling at 0.01 Frames per Second is not fun at all.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Lol

Or perhaps Android Developers should give people a proper Exit option in the menus, and the back button should function consistently for all applications - stock or not.

If the above happened, there would be little need for a task killer, but you have Android apps that eat up 25-50 MB RAM and others that use the CPU in the background after you back out of them and think you exited (but didn't), and this destroys the battery.

The issue isn't the need for a task killer. The issue is that Android lacks consistency and the developer community are too dense to give people simple things like exit buttons. For example, people have been complaining about no Exit Button in the Opera Mobile on the market, and last time I checked they still haven't added it in. That button exists on every other platform, except Android. It's like they do this **** on purpose...

That being said, the bad battery life on Android goes beyond just apps running in the background. Even idle an Android phone seems to not last as much as other phones. When I tried out a Blackberry Bold 9780 I used it heavily all day and didn't even charge it overnight, and the next morning it still had over 70% battery life (so I could probably use it moderately to heavily for ~3 days between charges). I had all my email accounts getting pushed to it (including my Gmail + Contacts + Calendar and Hotmail + Contacts). BBM, SMS/MMS, lots of phone calls (it was a weekend). The battery life was a REVELATION. Too bad RIM's QC sucks for those phones...

You just don't get that from an Android phone - not even close. To get a good day, you have to do some ridiculous modifications to your phone and an autokiller does not help - I dunno why people keep suggesting it we debunked that myth months ago.

WP7 battery life will get worse when Multi-Tasking is added. It's expected, so I think it's a bit too early to rave about that little victory over Android right now...
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Auto killer prevents apps from starting at boot, easy when you know how ! :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The problem isn't the apps that start at boot. It's the apps that don't shut down when you back out of them - a lot of them poll for data in the background, and things like that. Most of the apps that start at boot on my phone use little to no CPU cycles and I haven't noticed any of them using a measurable amount of data. That's why everyone uses a task killer and they bake them into ROMs.

Windows Mobile had the same issue. Some apps didn't have an exit button and unless you ran the task manager a lot to keep them in check, they drained your battery.

Not saying that doesn't help somewhat (you can just freeze some of them and not have to worry about AutoKiller, or root and rip them out of the ROM if possible), but it's not the core issue and it's not a universal solution. It's also a pretty bad solution when you consider the majority of people simply won't want to go there. They'll just ask you if you know a phone they don't have to fool around with to get decent battery power.

There are days when my Vibrant is off the charger for 4 hours and it's giving me a battery warning, just from watching some flash video on the web, browsing, and IMing in Trillian. I make sure I close everything in the task killer after I exit them and do Level 1/2 Clears occasionally to purge processes that don't need to be running. The issue is deeper than that, and probably has more to do with how the kernel is coded, which would explain why people report incredible jumps in battery life when they switch to custom ROMs/Kernels.

Also, some widgets are terrible as well. My home screens are borderling bare because of the issues I've had with certain widgets destroying my battery.

AutoKiller won't turn 6-8 hour battery life with moderate to heavy usage into 48-72 hours...

I think on these Galaxy S phones the sAMOLED screen *may* have a lot to do with the incredible battery drain. When I went to Houston Last weekend my phone was draining DOWN on the Car Charger while using Google Maps, and it was draining more than any other phone I've ever used in my life (I don't expect ridiculous charging on a car charger using GPS and Data, but the battery drain was almost like it wasn't even on a charger). I tried two different stock Samsung Batteries. No change. A blackberry would have been able to go the whole weekend without a charge.

From what I've read in the reviews, the ATRIX 4G with its 1930 mAh battery isn't even much better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] rhory:
Thanx N8ter, nice to get different views. I tend only to let the apps start that I use most Handcent etc, battery life on my HD2 is pretty good, charge every second day.

HD7 is in its box not a fan at all, a jailbreak may change my mind, but one doesn't seem any nearer at this time, still we live in hope. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] nrfitchett4:
Finally decided to give wp7 a chance???

I know wp7 is not all the way there, but it sounds like they are opening the api's for the mango update so a lot of what you are looking for will be there. And the way they described multitasking, I don't think battery life will take a big hit. The only things that will "multitask" will by music api's. Everything else will still be a push type system and others like twitter will be allowed to check for updates periodically in the background, but not stay completely running. If they can make it just like the demo video (when does that really happen?), then it will work great. We'll see.

What happened to the Blackberry conversion? (Phone and playbook)

You definitely got a bad phone or replaced the sd card. I have not had 1 battery pull since I got it in november and the one time it froze up on me it rebooted itself. I haven't even soft reset it in over a week.

Considering how much of a memory hog htc sense is, if htc makes a phone OS, it will need a quad core processor to not be laggy.

What do I do on my phone besides games?

Facebook, twitter, messaging, videos, podcasts, slingplayer, bitbop....

That is a lot of steps to fix something. I think the point being is that even on the high end android phones, there are fixes to be made and google has allowed carriers to overbloat it.

While on wp7, everything except the core features (messaging, IE, etc) can be deleted, even carrier bloatware.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Not needed with 2.2+. In fact, Google says using a task killer will cause system problems and actually lower battery life. Task killers might just be one reason some people are experiencing troubles with later Androids. Android FroYo has management build into the system.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, even WM had memory management built in and has had it for ages. Contrary to many people's belief, it was a pretty advanced system, by the way.

ISVs and OEMs screwed up though so in real life you wouldn't suspect that it existed though...

The funny thing about it is that MS kept saying again and again that there was no reason to kill apps... An even funnier thing is that it was TRUE in theory but almost never was implemented properly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
So true, WinMo 6.5 is an excellent mOS. And I never had the troubles with it that others seemed to have. But I kept it maintained. And in the case of WinMo's memory management, if I didn't run CleanRAM and keep apps killed, it would bog down. I never use any task killer with Android and it remains lickity-split smooth and fast. So the memory management must be doing its job. In fact, I don't even know of any kind of CleanRAM type app for Android.

I wish I had 2 HD2s. One to run my favorite WinMo and the other for Android. I love WinMo. Some people find it to be buggy as hell and slow and un-smooth. I always found it to be perfectly smooth and trouble-free.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Another thing to MartyLK: If you're running Android on an HD2, the OS probably runs better off an SD card than lots of *actual* Android phones because it has more RAM. It ships with 576 MB RAM and that phone ends up having factorably more free RAM after a boot than i.e. a Galaxy S phone (which is lucky to see 220 MB free after a fresh boot).

Windows Mobile bogged down because the OS wasn't really optimized for that hardware. It ran better on the HD2 than on i.e. a Touch Pro 2 or Jack, but that was chiefly because the hardware was THAT much better than those older phone...

Barring the Battery Size and LCD panel used, the HD2 has [arguably to some] better hardware than the Nexus One.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Ironically enough, I have a DesireHD ROM running on my HD2 right now...its a flashed ROM that uses RAM (don't ask me the details, I can't answer them)...and I went to a local AT&T store and saw they had the HTC Inspire 4G in and running on display. Gorgeous phone! But it is basically a refined HD2 hardware wise. It, too, has the same DesireHD Sense ROM my HD2 is running ...I think the Inspire is nothing more than a renamed DesireHD...and it seemed stiffer in typical movements like scrolling the screens than my HD2. It was by no means slow or sluggish, quite to the contrary, but it didn't have the buttery smoothness my HD2 has. However, when choosing certain functions, like selecting the "Skin" menu and changing skins, it was decidedly faster and more efficient.

I swear, though, if I'd the money in pocket, I would have left with an Inspire. But the funny thing is, I have no need for it because my HD2 is every bit the same phone, minus the 4G capability. I'm glad I didn't have the mula. The Atrix is one I'm really considering. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
I understand its installed in a stock phone. this is why I suggested rooting and uninstalling. uninstalling things is a feature not a bug. (sorry, had to pun)

rape is a very powerful act, and not something I would attribute to a phone or one of its processes. browser performance can be crippled by enough flash, agreed. that's on any system, any number of processes, any OS. I can scroll through forums like advriders or similar just fine on my g2, its not exactly a powerhouse by todays standards. flash does not degrade my browsing enough to care one way or another. adblocking is essential to happy browsing. everywhere.

the charging issue is known on several car docks. I don't use car docks for this reason. just a simple micro usb chord plugged into a standard usb car charger. works great.

buy a subsidised phone has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT. the more times you vote with your money for NON-CRAPWARE phones, the industry takes notice and produces what you will buy.

hope to help, not to argue. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Funny story every single mobile OS is heading towards PC capabilities, I mean everyone except Microsoft.

I'm blown away by my Tegra 2, and they just announced Tegra 3 and quad cores! Damn it looks insane! Due this year!
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Every other phone is headed that way but microsoft already went that way once. Windows mobile was a pocket PC, more phone capabilities than any other co to date. That turned out well. WP7 is going in an all new direction, a device that encompasses all of ones needs. Sure it's not there yet but in it's current iteration it's still top-tier
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
iOS isn't. WP7 isn't. I can't say BBOS is, or even their QNX-based OS. WebOS surely isn't...

Android and MeeGo, sure.

Symbian is dead. Windows Mobile is practically dead. MeeGo is becoming an afterthought with each and every day.

People who want a desktop OS on a mobile device can get a Netbook, Laptop/Notebook, or wait until later this year adn buy a Win7 tablet.

There's no need for that on phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
1. I don't use a car dock. First of all some functionality on these Galaxy S phones didn't work with the Dock if your phone didn't have FroYo, and we didn't get that until just recently - so I wasn't gonna buy it.

Secondly, by the time that even became a consideration I already knew I was going to relegate this Android phone to backup status - sooner or later. Buying accessories for it would have been a waste of money.

I use a standard USB Car Charger.

IRT my use of the term rape. I believe msot of us learned what a context clue was in the third grade or so. I don't see an issue with it.

2. Bloatware doesn't matter with WP7. You can uninstall the crapware within the first 3 minutes of powering the phone on, and it doesn't require the level of trickery and hacking that Android does. That's what I did on this HD7, and I felt vindicated.

Though it was a bit... Comical having people disagree with me saying a pre-loaded Flash Plug-In could be uninstalled through the menus and claim "just did it, must be a user error" (which is a blatant lie :P ). All while trying to call me a forum troll :P

I'm over flash. IE in WP7 runs laps around the Android browser.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Bull****. IOS is doing it, feature wise they are. Look at the ipad, people run businesses from it. Add skype and you have a phone.

Smartphones are outselling PCs. The netbook market is rubbish when compared to the future of tablets.

WM failed because of the UI(I loved it), it was horrid and intimidating to most users.

These OSs are attacking the PC from all angles.