yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
That would be good. Let's hope that you are correct. :)
[Vibrant General] dattaway:
I pay good money for my data plan. And it is indeed very limited.
[Vibrant General] Scoobyracing03:
I had a talk with T-mobile on Twitter back when it was announced about the HSPA+ speeds and said why is there a cap after 5gb and I used the 21mb/s and gave them all the calculations as to how quickly that 5gb would get used up. I asked why give us faster speeds when you could be investing our money into expanding the network giving 3G speeds to areas stuck on EDGE or have no coverage from T-mobile. Their only response was stay tuned for what we have in store for our customers.

Yes throttling speed that is done purposely by T-mobile makes it not unlimited. If it was simply limited to the speed that you can get given where you are using your phone at then that would mean unlimited.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Yep, you clearly anticipated what my OP is about when you communicated with TMO. Let's hope that the person who suggested that you "stay tuned" was well-informed! ;)

I imagine that the early build-out in the speed dimension was a marketing tool designed to capture customers based upon the "wow" factor of enormous speed. However, a carrier who does not quickly follow this angle up with building out in the capacity dimension will (and has) disappoint(ed) customers and will likely fall flat on their face. Wireless carriers are, of course, a limited monopoly, limited by available spectral bandwidth constraints and huge investment costs. We in the U.S. are fortunate to at least have a few carriers to compete for customers. Hopefully that competition will be sufficient to continue to drive investment in capacity. If not, the public sector can always step in... At the end of the day, the freqency spectrum, like the air we breath, is owned by the people. We may lease it out. We may also cancel leases for the public good...
[Vibrant General] n2ishun:
Considering my ONLY internet access is tethered to my Vibrant on Tmo.....

and that is only a bit torrent client and not all internet access like browsing and email and etc....

I'm tethered to my Vibrant while I type this too....

Yep, it's VERY relevant.
[Vibrant General] TheMan42:
This thread is a combination of both idiocy and hilarity.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Well, if your only Internet access is TMO tethered, then I agree that your post sounds very relevant and I may stand very corrected.

Problem is, I do not understand your (quoted) post at all. Could you please elaborate as to how Transfer Cap is related to or interacts with TMO's server-side data cap mechanism? Is my understanding of Transfer Cap as a monitoring only program incorrect? Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Many thanks for your input!
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Ok...how so? I love to learn. But simply throwing out pejorative names is not much of a teaching tool. :rolleyes:
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Ok, I see from reading several of your recent posts that you are a TMO-troll/shill. And I actually responded to you in good faith... (Double face-palm.) :rolleyes:

(Read this guy's bio: http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1039)

Perhaps XDA should require that carrier-associated members identify themselves as such? :D
[Vibrant General] Marvlet:
I usually dont repond to these types of posts, but after reading a few of these replies I had to. All I will say is this, its called an Unlimited DATA Plan, not an Unlimited SPEED Plan. And before you ask, YES I am a T-Mobile employee and proud of it.
[Vibrant General] spinn360:
Another somewhat unknown factor. T mobile employees...lol been one and I have seen how much bull they are fed. The company nearly brain washes them, so they will tell you in complete honesty that t mobile is the greatest and they will back them 100% ... I've also worked contracted to t mobile so I was not as deep in the crap. And seen what there company does to its loyal employees after they reach a certain pay grade and t mobile reached a certain not want to pay that price anymore decision. Not that I ever got to any of those positions . No I saw what it was like and quit on good terms early. Then went back contracted because it is a very friendly work environment when your not the one lying to the customers. It has always seemed to me that the people who work there are one of two kinds the ones that know and do not care, or the ones that are to simple to see it for what it is. That being a company, here for one reason and one reason only. To make money whatever way they can. T mobile is no ones friend that doesn't have cash and a contract. So really what do you expect... Even if it gets a littl better and the cap its moved to 10gb that only means they are sticking something else somewhere else if you know what I mean. Not having worked for any other network I can only guess, but I would imagine its the exact same.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Yeah so when i try to open a youtuve video and it doesn't open because i am cap,do i still have unlimited data.?

Because you can argue that i can still open my browser which fail to open a page 9 out of 10 times while cap,but the reality is today's pages are not made to work on 56K connections,and you can cry in favor of Thief-mobile all you want,the truth is they advertise UNLIMITED DATA AT 3G and 4G where the coverage is available,guess what 3G on my area was available,but it wasn't working thanks to T-mobile cap.

They go sue for it,and i think they will end like Verizon did paying several millions,settling with clients because Unlimited means unlimited.

Worst T-mobile doesn't tell costumers that almost all the applications they hype will not work or will get affected when they cap you,in my case my contract is in Spanish and no place on the contract say that my speed will be reduce lower after 5GB of data.

Is very convenient for T-mobile to actually try to portrait what a normal use of a internet service should be,it is just not the right one,in fact by T-mobile own representatives here yesterday i read that their internet usage has more than double,is not because people downloading 100GB,but because they have tons of clients,the real problem with T-mobile is not tethering,is that they have a damn platform that support 1 million people (example) and they have 1.5 million people on it.

I know you are proud of been a T-mobile employee,but maybe you should know that without OS the consumer T-mobile is nothing,and trying to hide under such a low scam as this speaks volumes of T-mobile.
[Vibrant General] Tarzanman:
What it comes down to in the real world is this:

Even though mobile telecom companies are flush with cash, they do have limited bandwith. As much as you might like your tethering, there are a hundred other people who really like being able to make a phone call (you know, with their PHONE).

If you need unlimited, un-slowed access to the internet then DSL, cable, or even CLEAR are better options.

If you are downloading more than 166MB a day with your phone (which is what would put you at 5GB for the month) then you would be better served using a computer and a terrestrial based network.

Your phone is not built to be a router. If you keep pushing that much data through it then it will fail prematurely.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
Maybe you are referring to CDMA which doesn't allow call and data at the same time or has problems with it,because i can talk and use my data at the same time on my Vibrant.

You can't tell me that i should go for DSL or cable for unlimited data,is better if carriers stop offering things they know their network can't handle.

You know what i think i think is time for the federal government to step in and actually kill the use of small letter and hidden crap that all this companies use as scam to suck people in.

Why doesn't T-mobile say in very big and clearly readable alone side Unlimited.

""Warning if you use your phone to much and pass 5GB which is nothing this day we will throttle the speed of your connection to the point where your phone is useless,and serves you only for call and text, YOU yeah YOU have been warned,don't cry to OS if you pass 5GB because WE WARN YOU,and we will do nothing for you.""

Now why don't they put something like this alone side Unlimited,there is a reason why.

And to close are you for real.? You just say our phones are not build to be a router,tell that to T-mobile who hype the Mytouch 4G as phone that can turn into a wireless hob,even lower end androids can share their internet connection.

Those phones are also modems dude.
[Vibrant General] Marvlet:
You say your contract is in Spanish? Well, here is a section of the contract in Spanish

number 10 in the contract which can be found on the tmobile site Clearly states the cap. for over 5gb

"Medidas de protección: Para brindar una mejor experiencia a la mayoría de nuestros clientes y minimizar los problemas de capacidad y deterioro del rendimiento de la red, es posible que reduzcamos temporalmente la transferencia de datos a una pequeña fracción de clientes que usan una cantidad desproporcionada de ancho de banda. Si su uso total excede los 5GB (la cantidad está sujeta a cambio sin previo aviso, consulte periódicamente los TyC de T-Mobile en T-Mobile.com para ver las actualizaciones) durante un ciclo de facturación, es posible que se reduzca su velocidad de datos durante el resto de dicho ciclo de facturación. Si usa su Plan de datos de tal forma que interfiera con el servicio de otros clientes, afecte nuestra capacidad para repartir la capacidad de la red entre nuestros clientes o que pueda deteriorar de algún modo la calidad del servicio para los demás clientes, podríamos suspender, cancelar o restringir su sesión de datos; o cambiarlo a un Plan de datos más apropiado."
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
As well you should be. T-Mobile is a great company, the best of the "big 4" IMO apparently, as I am a subscriber. As I said in the OP, this thread is not directed to any particular carrier; and any references to a particular carrier are merely examples of the concepts that I am trying to get across. Also, thank you for disclosing your relationship with T-Mobile. I believe that doing so is important to the discussion. Further, I note that you address replies in this thread and not the OP.

That said, none of this has much to do with the two main points of the OP, which are:

(1) That a carrier may disable a subscriber's high-speed Internet access after only a few hours of use per month if the subscriber uses services and bandwidths touted by the carrier; and

(2) That it is disingenuous (mildly speaking) of a carrier to tout services and speeds in advertising and press releases that their network does not have the [horizontal] capacity to support.

You cite to the best case of disingenuous marketing semantics, "Unlimited DATA Plan." Worse than that is "unlimited web access":

http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/...lan=Even-More-Smartphone-Unlimited-Web-E-mail

But a carrier cannot hide behind the semantics for very long. The lawyers will continue to be paid big bucks to tweak the semantics. However, doing so will not change the huge disconnect between network capacity implied in the advertising campaigns, the capacity actually available, and customer goodwill lost as a result of the difference between the two.
[Vibrant General] Marvlet:
@BruceElliot, I meant to repond to the replies and not the OP.

I see your point, and you are right what is advertised and actual could be misunderstood. But there are customers who see unlimited data plan and assume that connection speed is unlimited aswell. I was merely pointing out that the name of the plan makes no mention of speed being unlimited only data since even with throttle is still unlimited.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Are you an engineer? (LOL) I am; and what you just said is complete hogwash. :rolleyes:
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Check! Thanks for the clarification. :)
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
That is not in my contract dude,maybe that is the one use on US,in Puerto Rico is not the one we have,and if that is pulled or quoted from T-mobile online forget it,i don't have to go to T-mobile to read a contract nor was i instructed to before singing the contract.

In other words what i have is not even close to what you are quoting there,different stated have different laws dude,and i don't live in US i live in Puerto Rico,my phone i got it on Radio Shack the contract that Radio Shack gave me say that no where,if they would have told me that i would not have picked any of their phones period,i know how online works,and how demanding video applications are.

I fact i was with AT&T before T-mobile,and they charge you by the GB,reason why i move,but on T-mobile it was clearly stated in my contract.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
How in hell can you miss understood UNLIMITED DATA at 3G and 4G speeds,in fact should any costumer even scan for lines involving the data plan in contracts when they have been pull in by a big advertisement saying UNLIMITED then fallow by fastest 3G and 4G network fallow by Video chatting image of a phone.?

Offering unlimited data at 3G and 4G speed kill your complete argument,T-mobile no were in their advertisement say we have unlimited speed,first because it would been a complete and open lie, unlimited speed is not bound by 7MB or 4MB,Unlimited speed refer to a speed that has not limits,a trillion MB per second still can't be see as Unlimited speed.

Stop trying to defend T-mobile dirty work,the fact that you came here and actually try to hide on we didn't promise unlimited speed say it all,about T-mobile dirty tactics and its scam,yes it is a scam and they are been sue for it,and like Verizon before them they will probably have to settle in cash for their dirty tactics.

Go back to T-mobile forums where thread like this are close in a second,in order to hide the scam you people have.
[Vibrant General] SeanFloyd:
How sad. Proud of it? Lol, have a good life.
[Vibrant General] eltormo:
:D

This employees are brainwashed to defend the company,T-mobile could shot people who come into the store to complain,and they would still find a pathetic reason to defend it,they are like guard dogs,and like so they attack anything that is seen as bad against T-mobile,i personally did no have any problems with the company the service is good,but the cap scam kill it for me,i am actually thinking of going away cutting short the contract.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Avoid Personal Attacks

I know that some are angry, but let's try to avoid the personal attacks, folks.

Good employees are generally loyal to and love their companies; and that is a good thing. In general, loyal employees are what make a company great. And great companies improve our lives and lower our costs through competition.

My only request is that carrier employees identify themselves in the thread so that we know where they are coming from.

Let's stick with the facts and intelligent opinions, please. If the personal attacks continue, I will ask the moderators to close my own thread.
[Vibrant General] TheShadowMan:
Seeing as how I only get Edge speeds where I live and work and use mostly WiFi, I can't complain much about the cap. :D
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Amount of Access at EDGE Speeds

Interesting comment. I wondered how much access that translates to. Here goes:

5 GB =~5 x 10E10 bits

(5 x 10E10 bits) / (1 x10E5 bits/sec) [fast EDGE speed] = 5 x 10E5 secs

(5 x 10E5 secs) / (3600 secs/hr) = 139 hrs/month

(139 hrs/month) / (30 days/month) = 4.6 hrs/day

So, you would be capped only after spending an average of greater than 4.6 hours per day on a (fast) EDGE connection. But then I suppose that you are already sort of "self-capped," right? So, no consequences for you!

However, if a new tower popped up next to your house or workplace and you suddenly began getting an average of 5 mpbs download, you would be capped if you maintained such connection for more than about 10-15 minutes per day on average.

So, you can see why some people are upset...
[Vibrant General] t1n0m3n:
TMO is one of the few companies resisting the urge to squeeze it's customers for more cash. While they are double dipping us a little, TMO is no where near as blatant as the other carriers.

Consider the following examples:

--------------------------------

Payment plans:

1. True unlimited, unrestricted in any form data for one monthly price.

2. True usage based data rate billing at a sane low per (insert unit of measure here) rate.

User types:

1. Use the phone, use little data

2. Use the phone, tether, etc, use lots of data.

--------------------------------

True usage based billing favors user type 1. Since they don't use the device for data intensive operations, their bill is very low.

True unlimited, favors user type 2. They get to download all they want for one price.

By implementing a hybrid plan of the two payment plans in the examples above, the carriers are attempting to screw both types of customers. User type one is paying *way* more than he might with a true usage based billing solution, and user type 2 is getting really screwed when he goes over "the limit" by imposed "fines," "fees," or "throttling."

Cellular billing is nothing more than the companies trying to screw over the most amount of people into paying for data bandwidth that they do not use. This has little to do with carrier's capacity or lack there of.

Since TMO does not actually charge a fee for going over the limit, it is actually nice all things considered. At least with TMO, I don't get a significant cellular bill increase like I might with other carriers. I would still prefer either true usage based, or true unlimited. But in the cellular market, I think TMO is trying to screw us over a bit less than the others.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
This thread is not about pricing. The subjects are:

(1) That a carrier may disable a subscriber's high-speed Internet access after only a few hours of use per month if the subscriber uses services and bandwidths touted by the carrier; and

(2) That it is disingenuous (mildly speaking) of a carrier to tout services and speeds in advertising and press releases that their network does not have the [horizontal] capacity to support.

I do not believe that the carriers are trying to "screw" their customers. You seem to be confusing cost structure with throttling. Your logic would have TMO throttling (and, indeed, "screwing" their customers) for no reason, given that they do not up-charge for usage above the throttling point.

To argue that:

(a) The carrier has sufficient capacity not to require throttling;

(b) They do not upcharge for data usage; and

(c) They are throttling...

is illogical.
[Vibrant General] ntellegence:
First off to all the "I never reached that 5gb. It's fair bandwith hogs get what they deserve. Yada yada" just don't get it. I am all for a fast network for everybody BUT my bill say unlimited. It's said this since I have been using the G1 unlimited web/txt. Now how many years later does this pop up. This was not told to me when I got my G1, or upgraded to mt3g, or upgraded to my vibrant. People this situation affects everyone. It's the bigger picture. What else is hidden in these contracts? What's next you can only make phone calls in 15min blocks during peak hours...gotta protect bandwith. Tmobile messed up not me. There would be no argument if they said this when I bought my g1.
[Vibrant General] t1n0m3n:
Since you have comprehension problems I will boil my post down for you:

TMO's plan is not as evil as the rest, so I am fairly happy with the plan given the alternatives.
[Vibrant General] :
That's a picture of uTorrent, which I'm going to guess is probably NOT running on his phone.
[Vibrant General] n2ishun:
You're right.

It's running on my laptop that is TETHERED to my phone.

Thanks for playing.
[Vibrant General] funeralthirst:
if you don't like tmob throttling you at 5Gb then go to a different carrier.
[Vibrant General] BriDroid-74:
I use the heck out of my phone and this billing cycle I'm at my most data ever used, and I'm just under 1G. I don't know how these people are getting over 5G??? My wife is only at 200M.
[Vibrant General] Andrew.Dodson07:
Boooooohhoooo

What you all seem to forget is that people that are on this forum are not average users. The FCC estimates that 85% of American's wont go anywhere near 5GB in one month. Most people I know don't even clear 3GB. Don't start trying to tell me that YouTube streaming is what causes it, because the average video uses between 20-40 mb per minute. That means that at worst, you are using 3.9% of 1GB every time you watch a video. For those of you that still cant add that up, that's, at worst, 26 minutes of YouTube per 1GB. Now, if you are watching more than that on your cell phone, you have a legitimate bone to pick with T-Mobile, but I would also suggest that you find something a little more productive to do with your time than showing all your friends "David After Dentist." (Which you could watch, assuming David was filmed in HQ, 64 times in one month. After that, it might take you a few extra minutes to load it up. Boo...freaking...hooo.)

Let's just say though, for the sake of argument, that you use 16gb in a month. Do me a favor, and switch your phone to the edge network for me. Now download an application. Gosh, that took a lot longer. T-Mobile does not shut off your internet; it simply cuts off your 3G access until the end of your billing cycle.
[Vibrant General] BruceElliott:
Well, at roughly 1.8 Gigabits (~200 MBytes) per hour for DVD-quality video (NOT HD, mind you, which is double that) you can download about 16 1.5 hour movies per month before being capped, if you do nothing else with your smartphone during the month.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_Media

Or, you could watch about one hour of T-Mobile TV per day before getting throttled to EDGE speeds, if you did nothing else.

So, it depends on what you mean by "using the heck" out of your smartphone. Your "heck" may be another person's "hell." lol If you begin aggressively using the carrier-promoted services that this thread addresses, then you will certainly be "using the heck" out of your smartphone. And you will be one sad panda when, at EDGE speeds, you are no longer able to surf the Internet in real time.
[Vibrant General] t1n0m3n:
1. I think that minus collusion (which is another subject entirely,) the carriers should be free to protect their networks as they see fit. That we are seeing such similar protections across all US carriers is suspicious to me at best and is, yet, another topic.

2. Are you saying that we need to revise the subscriber to capacity formula that has been in place for many decades? (Which if you are, I wholeheartedly agree.)

Completely off topic and just a frustration vent:

I think that every US carrier is going about business entirely wrong.

FYI, I have been in cellular (I am currently in the entertainment business, though) professionally for over 15 years. I have seen every part of the business from the inside out. Before that I have grown up around the communications sector all of my life. I recognize that this means little, however, this is one particular subject that I have given much thought. And the preceding explanation is the reason why. I see specific opportunities that *every* wireless carrier is missing. (To make boatloads of cash even) These opportunities, once met, will result in a wireless growth explosion... And it is frustrating to see them miss the obvious over and over. I feel that every carrier is getting caught up in the minutia when there are oceans of opportunity to be mined and they are completely missing it.

*Sigh* Anyway this thread is an example of the carriers completely missing the point, and I can't help but gripe about it. Sorry for the rant.