yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] MysteryEmotionz:
Thanks for osting this skeeter

Android Creative Syndicate- From spontaneous ingenuity, comes creative brilliance
[Epic 4G General] skeeterslint:
The changes in the code have nothing at all to do with the cpu its all for the radio which even having froyo source will not help a bit with.Its all in the way the code changes were done. Rather then adding to the base code in CM the code was directly changed which is what Cyanogen has an issue with doing so basically could and probably has broken the radio code for other cdma phones, I don't know what or if any of the code in the frameworks was changed for the gsm Galaxy S phones so I can't say for sure that it the source from the CMSGS github wouldn't work on another GSM phone I only know that changes were made to get it working on the Epic and Fascinate.I don't think what the CMSGS team did was wrong they did what they had to do to get things working and from the time I spent working on it it didn't seem like there was much input from the CM team at all but that was probably happening in another irc channel that I was not invited into if they were involved.I was hoping that the Galaxy S would have had more interest from the CM team as a whole I know a phone or two was collected and donated to at least one dev and i also heard that Koush was supposed to take over the Captivate port of CM I am not sure if that ever happened or not but the Epic and Fascinate were from the beginning the red headed step children of the Galaxy S line it really is too bad that there wasn't for developers around to help work on it and make an offical Cyanogen backed CM port.I blame it all on the Evo personally if the Epic came out first it would be the Epic sporting all the kernel and roms that you can find in the Evo forum instead we are left with a handful or less of devs and a phone that is far from the potential that it has.
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
[Epic 4G General] XtaC318:
Where's the thank spam? hah.

I've slowly been dipping myself into the Developer 'pool' for the epic if you will..and at first when I started working nobody really ever helped out..they just threw me a link and was like..start reading blah blah blah..

Reading only gets you so far; Imho you learn better when you've got the experience of working first hand with the material you're trying to learn.
[Epic 4G General] skeeterslint:
When it comes to working on CM most of the work that needs to be done is all coding which we have very few if anyone java coders. Also you can use extract-files.sh on a phone running straight DK28 to get the propietary files needed to build CM with.When it comes to everything else most of the devs have taught themselves how to do the things they so by trial and error and alot of reading the internet. I know I have little coding skill so its would be hard to teach someone something you don't know how to do yourself and alot of the other things like putting togther device files to build android even on the google site has no real information on how to do it at all the best way I think is to just compare what the other phones use and piece it together from that.
[Epic 4G General] theimpaler747:
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
[Epic 4G General] skeeterslint:
From what I can see its not that Cyanogen doesn't want to support the galaxy s devices its that it seems they don't give any input to the devs that are working on CM for the galaxy s. They have basically split off from the main CM source tree itself and run their own source tree. It seemed like (and this is from the limited amount I saw on irc) that there was no input from the CM team they just let them work on their own. CM has ways to setup the code so the source tree remains workable across the board on all the devices it supports, the cmsgs team has just taken a different route on things and gone their own route thus making it not backed by cyanogen, was it the right way to do it who knows but it has made all the galaxy s devices redheaded step children in the eyes of Cyanogen and the CM team as a whole by the looks of it. I know from the point of view of having an Epic the major hold up to it is having coders with the proper skills to do the coding in general we had one coder working on it I don't know if he is still involved or not at this point. All I know is to make is a backed by Cyanogen CM port the coding that has been done so far would have to be completely redone in the ways that the rest of the CM team adds code to the CM source tree with as little to no modification of the stock CM code as possible.

Also I would like to add that I am not trying to put anyone down that is working on the CMSGS team they have done CM working on these devices and am in no way bad mouthing the work that has been done. This is just my view on things and why Cyanogen doesn't back the galaxy s CM ports.
[Epic 4G General] || Acer ||:
Well, trying to comprehend everything that is going on here, I feel like the CMTeam does not feel the Epic is worth porting to CM7 due to it's delay on a FroYo source, which I am positive would make the Epic's porting much easier.

However, it still makes me wonder why they could not have used 2.1 to port to CM7, as like you said, the Hero has been able to do.

It also confuses me that the Captivate has even been able to run a Gingerbread port (I believe cyanogen) then. I realize that the Captivate has no 4G or a slide or anything, but the fact that they were willing to work off of 2.1 I assume gets me wondering why no one has tried making a CM port for the Epic's 2.1

I am trying to understand this as best as I can, so please forgive me if I seem to be giving false input on this conversation.
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
Its the time taken to port a phone, combined with the number of phones above yours on their list. The fact is they have a list of other phones they feel like investing their time in over the galaxy s line in general which is even more of a reason all knowledge of development on the Epic should be layed out even in pieces like the rest of the information here. Honestly thinking "leak it to noobnl, then we'll get all the goods" isn't going to cut it. Java coders, ubuntu fanatics who have compiled a few apps, and new people willing to learn should be putting heads together compiling new ****. If we dont start a group effort of making a bone stock aosp froyo altering the existing drivers were not going to be much further with source code. And it should be layed out here irc dont work for everyone.
[Epic 4G General] theimpaler747:
But like I said, there's CM7 (Android 2.3 if you don't know) for the HTC hero, with no 2.2 or 2.3 source code. So why not us?
[Epic 4G General] || Acer ||:
Alright, this is what I believe.

The Hero does not have 4G, or a QWERTY keyboard, two things the Epic does have that could make a pure AOSP port more difficult without a source. Also, HTC runs Snapdragon throughout the whole system, making tweaks a lot more simpler than SGS's Hummingbird Processor, which uses something else (I can't remember) with their system as well.

The last part I'm not sure if that makes a big deal or not, since I have seen a (what I think) CM7 port for the Samsung Captivate, so it may simply be because of 4G and the QWERTY keyboard.

I see what you're saying though. I guess the CMTeam should have no problem making a CM7 port based off of the Epic's 2.1 source...maybe they're just waiting because 2.2 might make it easier and supposedly 2.2 is coming soon so there'd be no point in starting now...otherwise I have no clue.
[Epic 4G General] daddymikey1975:
I think we also have 'limited functionality' w/ 2.1 as far as the phone's full capability.

2.2 will unlock some hidden potential IMO. Could be the reason why all the hubbub to 'wait for 2.2'.. again, just speculating.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
From what I am reading, just from this post and the link to the blog, is that there are two simple reasons CM does not approve of the build currently being worked on. 1) The blog states that ALL hardware must work, well with 2.1 source, not all of our hardware works, or supposedly... HDMI, 3.5 a/v, gps complaints (I see them going both ways, stock, or 2.2.1 being better...???). So if that is a pre-requisite, then until the right people have source, with a fully functioning stock base to build from, then it does not meet their standards, without some sort of workarounds they seem to disapprove of. Does the final official source for the Hero make all of its hardware function? That may be the difference in that example.

2) Mentioned relating to hardware already, but coding based on their tree. So they have a specific 'stock' fully operational build that works across all platforms??? Sounds like it would work, as mentioned across HTC devices, but not all, and not just to leave out SGS, but anything that will not run FULLY FUNCTIONAL off their base??? Sounds like they, intentionally or not, are limiting themselves hardware-wise. So the CMSGS team has been doing workarounds that don't meet their coding standards, but it would seem they are more focusing on giving the various SGS a working version given the resources available.

Really sounds like a pretty far uphill battle for the CMSGS team to appease the CM standards, even if we get a solid fully functional 2.2.1.... they know much better than I what they are doing, but if they get no support from CM (assumed from this thread) when they have all the resources they need, it sounds like CM is not interested in making our phone work, which kind of contradicts the POINT of keeping the code so that ANY device can be built off it. Having not used CM before, it gives me the perspective of 'ok, so what do WE want to have on our phones", without judgement being swayed by how much I liked it on some other device, or the need to feel part of something bigger. It is a special flavor of AOSP, correct?? So why not just make another??? If we have the people capable, I think their time would be better spent focusing on a badass AOSP for the SGS line, and those to follow, Than trying to 'fit in' with a setup that seems to be biased towards HTC devices (whether intentional or not).

Also, if we did get a solid CM, do I HAVE to see Cyan (the color) in it, or can I change that???
[Epic 4G General] 063_XOBX:
The only cyan you would see would be the boot screen which can easily be changed
[Epic 4G General] || Acer ||:
CM7 is completely AOSP, so I don't think the Cyan would appear.

If it did, I'm positive a theme would be made to get rid of it.
[Epic 4G General] nubecoder:
I consider myself a programmer, but I have very little experience with Java (made a small time calc app for my Razr once).

I'm sure once I dive in, java won't be too difficult to get the hang of, but like others have said, it hasn't been too easy finding resources.

I've browsed through the android developer site, I've done some searching on dev environments, and the like.

I just haven't got around to actually setting it all up yet.

And none of that is specific to building aosp, it's more for building apps.

In fact I'm pretty sure (haven't really spent much time checking yet but) that aosp is built with C/C++ and not Java.

I've been in the epic irc channels and asked a few questions, the responses I've gotten have not been great.

I've directly asked Noobnl for any resources he had that could help someone get started.

I don't have a specific quote, but I was basically told, go figure it out your self.

I think it would be of great help for some kind of "Getting started developing for andriod" or "So you want to build aosp, this will get you started" threads to be available.

Maybe they exist and I just haven't looked hard enough.

I'm sure they aren't in the Epic section of xda here or I should have seen them by now.

I agree with dreamsforgotten that there needs to be more sharing of info and resources.

So far the best resource I've found has been dreamsforgotten, "So you want to know how to theme" guides. (Thank you for that!).

One of these days I'll get my andriod dev environment all set up, again just haven't got around to it yet.

I got my Epic (my 1st andriod phone) on December 3rd, so it's only been a couple of months so far, but it seems to be an uphill battle finding good resources.

With android being an open source project, I guess I kind of expected it to be a bit easier finding resources.

I will admit, part of the reason I haven't spent tons of time really digging for resources is that Froyo is supposed to be released soon.

And once the Epic's Froyo source is released, that will probably motivate me a bit more to get everything set up and try to get started.

Just adding my $0.02.

=]
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
@Dreams- gotta go back and thank the post(s), but I really like your attitude of seeing the Epic (and even all SGS) community as a 'team', contrary to my previous observations... maybe that was a sentiment you had regarding that particular thread, but anyways, props to you for pushing for the spirit of open source. Even if a rom, theme, or any hack is not necessarily held to the open source spirit, it should be. That being said, if I were a Dev, and a busy one, I would not like to be asked by EVERY person wanting to learn to Dev to ask for every bit of knowledge, but maybe those in the know, who have a little time, could expand the wiki to incorporate more of the getting started info ( not just a link to google), and then attempt to answer the more specific questions of a new Dev... as 'how do I do all this' is a pretty big question. I think honestly that one good thing that comes from our lack of support is that it is spurring those of us with various abilities to action, and not just waiting to be spoon-fed by the companies, or a few experienced developers... props to you guys... makes me want to try to learn some of this... I have wanted to learn to program on some level since my 286, and just let the punk life and booze get in the way of even owning a computer till a few years ago... hahaha!
[Epic 4G General] nubecoder:
[off-topic]

It's never too late to start! I began self-learning back in 2007 at the age of 27.

I chose C# as my 1st language, and I have to say I love it.

It's syntax is similar to many other languages, including C/C++ and Java.

Visual Studio really makes it a breeze to work with though (thank you M$).

There are some decent beginner videos out there to help get you started.

And don't let the booze deter you, I'd say 99% of what I've done has been while stoned.

;]

[on topic]

Well, from the discussion here, it sounds like CM is kind of restrictive for being open source based.
[Epic 4G General] dreamsforgotten:
@ungovernable my post your referring too, if we on the same page, wasn't attacking noobnl and it's what I'm saying here. The attitude of our community thinking one man is going to be superman, and the lack of knowledge shared compared to even the must obscure phones. Noobnl is not to blame unless it's for having a figure it out yourself attitude when he relies on others sharing with him. We are if we dont share even what little we know so we can expand.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
quick off topic, yeah it was some iteration of C my bro in law gave me when I was like 9 yrs old... I think it was on about ten 5.25" disks and the 3 books were about a foot high total. Was totally lost... tried to read it, but waaay too advanced... I was a little genius kid, but not that smart... at least not to get it on my own. I asked a current subcontractor programmer who makes awesome money where to go with it, he said SQL, then Java.... idunno... gotta research what will get me what I want... want to be creative, but not like the millions of unemployed web devs I know... I gotta get outta electrical, no construction work for a while it would seem. any advice or links would be cool if you could PM em... I did CI home theater smarthome stuff, kubuntu media center was cool, but android, i think, will be the way of the future for that too... Tabs instead of RTI or AMX remotes....

Anyways, dont know what else to say on topic, other than those working on CM know what they are doing, I just hope its as beneficial as it would appear, as opposed to 'our' (sgs,etc) own new project...

@Dreams, yeah I was saying that given the strong feelings on all sides of the drama surrounding Noobnl, maybe you came across different in the other thread. I just had also noticed ACS coming in like a crew to a fight at a punk/hardcore gig, and that can be counterproductive. It would seem that your team and Noob especially have some stuff to work out, in the spirit of cooperation. As far as people being his sycophants, well, its going to happen, I have seen plenty of posts exalting ACS for the Syndicate extreme kernel... just not lately. He just happens to be the highest profile, and involves himself in the highest profile projects, so its bound to happen that he is more noticed. Im sure he does not appreciate people blindly praising him, as it only feeds the fire of those who question his ways... I say the Devs should sort this out, and maybe in IRC or some manner, get Noob to address your issues, as he is notoriously brief in posts. Just keep going at the issue from a positive work together mentality, if Noob chooses not to get on board, and go ronin, well... thats his choice. He did 'join' the CM project, and if I remember made quite a few advances right away, even if they arent to Cyanogen's standards, (assuming it is his work that they poo-poo), so he isn't opposed to working together, but I think his brevity is often mistaken for arrogance. But I dont do IRC, as I only read of drama coming from there, and OCCASIONALLY see mention of breakthroughs made via that channel... so I figure its 'general' for Devs... and stay out of that mess ;)
[Epic 4G General] skeeterslint:
Some of aosp is done in C/C++ the actual android portion of the code is in Java.
[Epic 4G General] nubecoder:
[last off-topic post]

I would just like to clarify about my previous post.

The response I got from Noobnl was not in a negative manner.

I was simply told that he didn't have any specific resources and to just go try things for myself, as that is what he had done.

I was in no means disrespecting Noobnl (or any other dev for that matter).

=]
[Epic 4G General] snowmanwithahat:
This makes sense, fundamentally cm is modified android, but with the epic and other sgs phones a lot was re rewritten.

basically if AOSP can't be compiled and run on our phone then there is no way cm will every be official
[Epic 4G General] || Acer ||:
No I'm sure all SGS phones will have an official cm7 port once there is a 2.2 source...otherwise it'd be a shame. All phones should be AOSP

Sent from my Epic 4G
[Epic 4G General] XtaC318:
We need some of our better Dev's to work in-line with the CM team to get us an official working cm mod once our source drops.
[Epic 4G General] snowmanwithahat:
There is 2.2 source out.... AOSP.

Cyanogen is an AOSP based rom... as soon as you start throwing in pieces of code and **** from other builds of android you're making it less AOSP focused and more samsung-android focused.

If AOSP doesn't compile for our phone than we can never ever, not even in a dream have a "sanctioned" Cyanogen build because it wouldn't be AOSP based.

It's the fundamental idea of what the ROM stands for and what they do.
[Epic 4G General] || Acer ||:
We need a 2.2 source for the epic because that contains hidden code that will make an AOSP base have a higher percentage of actually compiling. Samsung has a lot of bloatwhere in their code, and the 2.1 source does not show all Samsung's additions, making the idea of a working cyanogen much more difficult. When we have both Samsung and the AOSP's code side-by-side, it will be much easier to decrypt which code in the Epic must stay for an AOSP port to work.

Sorry if what I said does not make sense...This is the way I see it and I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Sent from my Epic 4G
[Epic 4G General] skeeterslint:
We really do not need anything from the Samsung source code except the kernel source.As other have already stated phones like the hero have cm6 and cm7 the hero never had 2.2 to start with it only had 2.1.The bits and pieces of actual android code Samsung is going to put out with the code drop is a bone just to say they gave out source code to appease the gpl it is not needed to build a stable cm6, cm7 or pure google aosp.What is needed are people that can code not the meanless(with the exception of the kernel source) code drop from Samsung.If we had programmers that can code java C and C++ and would be willing to work with the CM team or at least find out how to make the code work within the boundries that the CM team uses that is what the Epic and all the Galaxy S devices need, not a meaningless code drop from Samsung. Again look around at the other phones that have CM running on them not all of them have 2.2 released from the factory so these code drops are not needed, we just need devs with the proper skills not bones from Samsung.
[Epic 4G General] MysteryEmotionz:
You are correct but your forgetting the most important part of why we need. Source code is where the drivers and the driver information we need cab be found. That's including the ffc and physical keyboard.

Android Creative Syndicate- From spontaneous ingenuity, comes creative brilliance
[Epic 4G General] skeeterslint:
The keyboard is a none issue it works on a pure aosp rom I have compiled pure aosp.The front facing camera drivers we will never get from samsung they are proprietary drivers just like the way wimax is implemented so any work to get that working will have to be done from scratch.
[Epic 4G General] MysteryEmotionz:
Thank you got correcting me

Android Creative Syndicate- From spontaneous ingenuity, comes creative brilliance
[Epic 4G General] nubecoder:
I read around a bit today, and found this post by Dameon87.

This all has helped me better understand what is involved in working with aosp.

Unfortunately the languages I have the least experience with is c/c++ and java.

It doesn't help that I don't run or have much experience with linux either.

It does seem that we do need a bone from Samsung; That bone being a newer kernel.

=]