yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] geoken:
I'm picking up a Nexus S and selling my HD7 this Thursday. I will come back to WP7 if MS plugs a lot of it's holes and the OEM's release so e compelling hardware.

I've always disliked the laginess of Android, but the more a use WP7 the more I feel like it's smoothness is limited to the home screen and first party apps. Most of the apps I use demonstrate significant lag when swiping through panoramas or pivot controls. IMDB, flixster, weave, weather network, etc. all lag when I swipe left and right.

I flashed my brothers N1 with Cyanogen 7 nightly and it solidified my decision to go with the Nexus S.
[Windows Phone 7 General] x51:
I have read a lot of predictions of microsoft not being able to climb out of single digit market share by the end of 2011. The only market share they are stealing right now is from Windows Mobile users.

The lack of customization bothers ME, but for most people WP7 is a solid device. The people I know that have a WP7 device have only one complaint: The home screen: Giant ugly tiles with 6 colors to choose from. It's simple, It shows everything you want to know right there.. but it's ugly.

This home screen interface is what kills it for me, and it's the reason my next phone will be Android. WM had a bad interface, but plug-ins and overlays like SPB Mobile shell, HTC Sense and others made it better. Microsoft is trying for a controlled environment (like Apple) to avoid the issues of WM when it comes to compatibility so custom home screens are not supported.

If Microsoft made a homescreen that supported various sized widgets so users could customize it to fit what they want to see.. it would have done better among the people I know for sure. Developers could have designed cool widgets and everyone can have a homescreen that truly is theirs. The rest of the phone is quite nice.. I just cant get past the ugly Squares.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ then Microsoft would be copying another thing from Google.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
Same Here

It's the same for me. Hundreds of little squares for Apple, WM etc. just got me tired. I like the simplicity of WP7. I know that this term has been overused but "simplicity" does it for me, and this after years of burning custom WM ROMs and tweaking until it became an adiction. Been there, done that, not going back.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
See, I completely disagree. I avoided iphones for one because of the ugly UI (as well as hardware options but meh) I find WP7s UI to be amazing and fluid. A number of widgets won't matter once decent live tiles are thrown on the market and I likely wont use it anyway. I know this is personal opinion but I like the simplicity and would rather not add bloat to my phone to try and make it lag. That's one of the main reasons I pulled out on android, just too laggy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] radeon_x:
Alright I know you're one of the biggest WP7 supporters here... But honestly, your assessment of Android as laggy is pointless.

I love the WP7 interface - I used an Optimus 7 for a few weeks. But I can say without hesitation that if I added up all the lag in and caused by 3rd party apps on WP7, it lags way more than a Galaxy S running the latest firmware.

Maybe if you don't use 3rd party apps then the UI is flawlessly smooth like you suggest. But in everyday use, I just didn't see it.

Sent from my Ericsson T39m
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
There may be some apps that lag upon startup and some even in-game due to generally being poor iphone ports but that won't really affect the homescreen as multi-tasking isn't readily available on WP7. This paired with the fact that android years later still does not have a GPU accelerated UI makes what you said there near impossible... I can go straight from a game of bejewled to NFS to ilomilo then go back to the homescreen with absolute zero lag even with a measly 256 megs of ram.
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
come on there are so many post like this online.... and if you are smart enough you will know what it means....

WP7 was launched almost at CES... so how many devices you will want to be sold in the 4th qtr of 2010?????

and the phone sild in US for 2010 are the devices that are in the market for at least 6 months and more furthermore if you dont know that WP7 is a new OS its not an UPGRADE for the WM 6.5....

i at least believe you are grown up and educated person with some intelligense of your own, so please read the artical and evaluate before posting it as its not right to judge an OS when we only used it for 3 months.... it sounds like some one said on this forum that WP7 will turn iPhone to a paper waight (as a Windows supporter i still dont think that will happen as apple has there supporters and as a close system it works well and i think MS is trying to do similer with the WP7)...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Ppc 2000 (had MSN messenger extensions)

Ppc 2002

Ppc 2003

Windows Mobile 5

Windows Mobile 6

Windows Mobile 6. 1

Windows Phone 6. 5

Windows Phone 6. 5. X

Windows Phone 7

Enough said. :-) ;-)
[Windows Phone 7 General] c_legaspi:
tried wp7, didnt like it. dont think the plain ui is appealing, lack of customizing and lack of apps are my main reasons for not going to buy. ill wait till it matures and better/newer hardware comes out before i reconsider.

for me, yes i agree with the disappointing start and yes i am disappointed with it but thats only my opinion. im sure in time it will pick up
[Windows Phone 7 General] jz9833:
but you are wrong. 6.5 and 6.5.x were still windows mobile...

WP7 is the first iteration of a brand new OS
[Windows Phone 7 General] mikeeam:
Well, MS is doing it wrong.

I don't think it's the best OS ever OMGOMGOMGOMG. And I don't think there is a "best SO". They are different. People are different. Each one fits better for you, me, or everyone else.

For me, I love the WP7 OS, yet, they should have changed the OS name. Come on.. Everyone just hates WinMo. Why freaking "Windows"? /;

In my country MS didn't even move a finger to bring phones to here. Why?

I mean, why not? They are 3 years late. At least TRY things.

The SO is completely different, yes. Is fast, smooth, and sexy. Yes. But people do know what iOS can do. And what Android can do. They like it. MS will need more than "we are MS, buy it".

Advertise, updates, updates, phones, updates. And if they are bold enough, change the name. "Windows Phone 7" sucks ;/

Feels like.. "Superman: The Revenge". Or something like that. Ok, i'll shut up.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
Really?

Sorry, but as reported months ago, MS refers to 6.5 as "Windows Phone".
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
I find it interesting to see people say this, cause personally I absolutely love the wp7 interface. It's sleak, quick, and very functional. I find iOS boring, and Android just seems wayyy too all over the place. I kind of like the streamline thing. And if they get the live tiles reallly humming, then it'll be even better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Tastes obviously differ. And MS approach to OS design is very risky. Both because it's very unconventional, and because it's harder to appreciate on screenshots, and even on an "empty" device out of the box. It really shines when you start using it, and the difference with Android is especially striking when you start using third party apps. But you need to spend some time with it to see what it's about.

It's ironic how MS's attempt to get away from mediocrity did them a disservice, with Google quickly jumping in to use it to their full advantage.
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
True - the latest HD2 box I have even says Windows Phone.

That doesn't mean it's the same OS though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] wheresmybeaver:
I cannot tell you how sick I am of reading all these half-arsed reports and theories and discussions about how well (or not) Windows Phone 7 is getting on. "I have a blog and I have an opinion", "I've read a report and this is what I think", "I've used 20 million smartphones and I consider myself an expert". That's marvellous. Blah blah blah.

Can we just say that a lot of people like it, it's doing just fine, and with a bit of time they'll work out the details? Shall we just leave it at that and move on?

Jesus Christ people.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
Ok everyone, shut it all down. No more discussion on things from here on out. This applies to music and TV show threads too. Please inform other websites of this. Some people like some things, and other people like other things. This blanket statement closes all discussions. Thank you wheresmybeaver, I was worried people would continue on discussing things that interest them. Thank goodness you came in when you did.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
lol. Indeed .
[Windows Phone 7 General] wheresmybeaver:
That's a whole lot of sarcasm right there. My point being that we have been discussing this constantly since October in about 1000 other threads. We do not need another thread rehashing the exact same arguments, unless Microsoft does something dramatically new and game-changing like offering handjobs with handsets.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
Now that's something I could get behind.

Er... not g-... uh... you know what I mean.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chumaj001:
I would just like to poit out, that google sold "only" 8 million android phones during 2008 and 2009. The huge popularity of Android started during 2010. Compared to that, Windows start with 2M sold in three months doesnt seem to be that bad. Its basically better than Android start was.

Microsoft just has to bring flash, turn by turn GPS, USB mode and couple of "details" like custom background, ringtones and smart dialer and WP7 is perfect system. Only app I am personally missing (except those mentioned) is Zinio reader. Everything else I am using is WAY better than on android/iPhone (RSS readers, Twitter clients, facebook integration, Zune player, marketplace etc.)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
sounds about right HTC shipped between 600,000 and 1 million units in 2008

http://www.talkandroid.com/422-htc-g1-sales-2008/
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ if you're comparing 9 phones to 1 one phone, thats a disappointment. Lets not even mention how ugly the G1 was.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
What the point in using a caret?
[Windows Phone 7 General] chumaj001:
I am not talking G1, I am talking ALL android phones. During first 15 months, only 8 million devices (from all manufacturers) with Android were shipped to customers.

But on the other hand, I would bet, that the main reason for Android getting so popular is, that it was free for phone manufacturers. Simply, if you wanted to ship something that will have at least similiar functions as iPhone, getting Android was the easiest and cheapest way how to do it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
wait, a few days ago, wp7 didn't need flash. or mass storage. or backgrounds. or a different dialer. a few days ago, wp7 was perfect, and proclaimed the death and burial of the iphone AND android os's at the same time.

so, which is it ?

the roll out of the september (latest official word I've read) will be a telling thing.

I don't want to judge the total number of handsets as success or failure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I'm talking 2008-2009. HTC Dream. Android took off in 15 months as that would include the Motorola Droid release.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Android didn't have Android to compete with when they sold those 8 million phones, by the way. It had WM which everybody hated and you couldn't read a single device review where they wouldn't say something like "if it only didn't have WM".

So yeah, like I said earlier, the initial sales aren't all that bad at all. Now where it goes from here is another question. In order for a platform to do well, OEMs have to constantly pump out devices as none of them is capable of making The Device, no matter what OS it runs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
How many more devices do you need with the same damn specs?
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaolin95:
For the love of God I really hope you were just joking on this one....if not, you got a LOT to learn mate.
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
You know, there was a time when a company called HTC released something called the Universal, a forward looking design that ran Windows Mobile. It had a unique tilting, swiveling hinge that wowed and excited users. Sadly there was never a follow up device and said company has settled for releasing the same phone design with slight changes over and over. Seems they got tired of being really innovative.

Point is you dont need to have all the latest tech specs to have a stand out device. You can make a device more desireable based on its design alone and that is what is missing with most of the WP7 handsets today, (the Dell being the exception for its unique portrait slider design even though we've seen it before on the Blue Angel series of phones), but there is absolutely nothing stopping OEM's from producing really eyecatching hardware designs to complement the new OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ MS restrictions are. There are even design restrictions, no clams, no rotating screens etc. No having certain buttons, the list goes on.
[Windows Phone 7 General] geoken:
its not about specs, its about form factors.

When there's an AWS device with physical buttons, 1400+ battery, NAND memory and decent build quality then I won't need any more devices.

Right now my only choice is an HD7, which is compromise after compromise.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I will never buy HTC. This manufacturer has serious quality problems.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
Notsureifserious.jpg

You really don't think any of the wp7 designs are appealing??

Not sure what it would take to impress someone (or at least satisfy them) that holds that opinion...
[Windows Phone 7 General] sure haven't:
I don't mean any sarcasm at all, but can you expand on that? I've only owned one HTC phone (the original Touch), and it was pretty crap. The back fell off at the touch of a feather. It's just I kind of get the feeling that HTC doesn't have the best designs, just looking for someone's insight who thinks the same.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
What?

I have owned the HTC 8125, 8525 and FUZE. I have not had an issue with any of them. I beat the crap out of them for 2 years each and have not had any issues. No build quality issues here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I had the 6700(remember the remote control apps, I mean programs?), 6800, 6900, and touch pro and they all survived a lot of beatings from me. The only thing that sucked was battery life.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, I personally wouldn't mind changing my phone every couple of months, if only for different looks. But that's not the point.

The point is that new devices sell better than old ones. Old ones are, well, old news. A few years ago HTC made all their phones with the same crappy 200MHz TI processor, remember? And new devices still sold better than old ones. Unless an OEM can make a phone that can sustain high sales for long periods of time, pushing out new devices is the only way for a platform to grow.

So, no new phones will equal stagnating or slow sales.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
You're right, they are similar however android is MUCH more locked down that WM. Android is similar to WM except with an app star and a more finger friendly UI. If youare intelligent enough to skin WM then you have a better device than any android device for business users. Not gaming of course but business.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Hmm I just see everywhere some issues. That's it, I don't trust it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That is interesting. Actually currently WP7 is much more locked than Android.

There are apps which cannot be ported to WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I stopped reading after this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
WM and WP7 are two entirely different operating systems. Windows mobile was much more open source than android but unfortunately it was not user friendly. Not that I find android to be user friendly either but to the mass market they see a cheap iphone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
Find me a source for WM, pahlease.

Stop the non-sense.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
and by source you mean? We all know it's dead but there's no denying that aside from gaming capability it was the most capable OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
You claim the WM was more open source than Android - provide me a source for WM kernel, yeah do your best.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
WM actually had a functional kernel to begin with so I don't see any need for it. WM as lame as it was was at least a complete operating system. I don't think a lack of kernel access makes it any lesser if it's not needed. Android was basically repackaged windows mobile with a prettier skin and a different (albeit laggier) base OS. Thanks almost entirely to members of the XDA community it draws closer to being at the level of WM but sadly is still plagued by the same issues. I'm still waiting to see an android phone capable of dual-booting or running exe files. Make WINE for android then maybe there will be something worth talking about.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I can't tell anymore, I just don't know.

I don't know if you're joking, lost, confused or what.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Just a man who enjoys a phone that actually works
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
I enjoy my phone that works too

But I don't spread nonsense.

Sent from my Android device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nkd:
Only problem I have with it is the hardware. Microsoft needs to hurry up and certify themselves some dual core tegra based units. Since microsoft basically chooses what hardware they would allow for windows phone seven is good in a sense of simultaneous updates but manufacturers cant update devices with the hardware they want, like android. Hopefully microsoft comes out with the second gen handsets in a few months. I really wanna try a windows phone 7 but its hard to justify it with phones like atrix 4g coming with 1gb ddr2 ram and dual core tegra 2 processor.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I seriously doubt it'll happen before the end of the year, and not just because of Microsoft. OEMs simply won't release new WP7 handsets for months most probably, no matter what Microsoft certifies. They won't invest much into a platform that hasn't proven itself. They may have had revenue guarantee deals for the first wave of devices, but it can't go on forever.

Unlike most blogs, I think that WP7 is doing well in terms of sales actually. Even if you estimate their Q4 sales at 500K phones, that's 50K units per phone per half a quarter. Android sold 33 million phones in the same quarter, but it's offered on some 80 devices worldwide AFAIK, many of those cheap, which matters in large unsubsidized markets. This is magically also 50K units per phone per half a quarter. Messed up my numbers. That's 200K units per phone per quarter. But that number includes a much higher number of countries, more carriers, lots of cheaper phones in unsubsidized markets and outstanding hits like SGS (which accounted for a third of Android sales in the US in Q3) e.a. It has, and always will be the same for OEMs like HTC/LG/Samsung, smashing hits are exceptions rather than a rule for them. This is a very rough estimate of course and there are lots of factors that may make a platform more or less attractive for an OEM, but right now what they all need to see is whether it may sell more or less continuously without dropping to zero too fast. That'll take them a few months.

Either way, WP7 will stay with a single digit market share for at least a year. This means that you won't see OEMs rushing to produce numerous flagships even if they consider WP7 good enough too support. And without these flagships you won't see significant numbers. There's a lot of inertia in industries like this one, you can judge that by the simple fact that it took it years to prepare an answer to the iPhone, and one may argue it still hasn't really succeded.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I dont see a flagship coming til at least mango. Til then, im just going to buy every WP7 device that will take a sim card :).... other than crap like the surround, worst hardware ive bought in a phone in some time, deff not buying another now that I traded it for another HD7
[Windows Phone 7 General] nucentury08:
Your wrong in every way I was die hard windows nt 4 6 6.1 6.5 till wp7 now im all android wp7 did not find a balance like android and time was not on there side with wm series Android is a choice of Openess and Hardware Wp7 is one way or the highway theres no balance android gives a noob user a out of box perfect setup witch wm series dident follow me now ok now MS no more of that so they take away the balance and say now all will have the same fell out the box but in doing so they killed the balance that android brings to the world follow here comes Androud open hack os but unlike wm series where you could hack the heck out of it Android you can do the same with out the lag or having to flash a rom the avarage joe blow noob can pick up the phone and change his or her ui and not cause they have to hack android to make it run are not freez like you had to with wm series but because google found a balance of things for out of the box for noobs but a open tech device for xda kind of guys sorry for the run on no peroids but there you have it wp7 vs Android
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
But do we really want WP7 on 80+ devices? I'm thinking we don't.

The OEMs are not allowed much leeway in terms of UX customization and to make sure the OS performs great I have no doubt Microsoft will continue to deliver SoC support.

I just don't see a need for a gazillion WP7 devices. Heck, I think HTC has too many already, looking at their Mozart and Trophy they are identical apart from the camera and 0.1" in screen size. Had they bundled one of them with a free Zune Pass or something, okay, I could see the value-add, but as it is it's just diluting the platform.

Android is a completely different story, they can (and do) customize the UX. They do it so much so that most people do not buy an Android phone per se, they buy a Sense (HTC), Motoblur (Motorola) or Touchwiz (Samsung) and so on phone.

I would love a higher performing CPU as much as the next guy on these forums, but in reality what's on offer today is fine. The core OS is already as smooth as can be - and the same goes for most third-party apps not written by complete noobs. The only thing a dual-core or whatever SoC would bring to the table today is proper encoding / decoding of HD video.

That said, I do hope they bring out up to date hardware during their next cycle - i.e. they better provide state of the art SoCs on the handsets launcing this fall as part of WP8 or whatever they end up calling it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
At least a quarter of the android phones have a lag fix kernel because android is all lag. With no GPU accelerated UI that's all you will get, if you can't see that you haven't used a smooth device. Android's biggest issue however is fragmentation, I have multiple android phones bout less than a year ago that never would've even seen froyo without XDA, hell, my G1 can't play any of the good android games. (Not that I care I wouldn't go back to android if it was between that and blackberry.) Android can be a decent experience if you get the right device, it gets all the updates, and it's remotely decent hardware, however the other android phones are filler. Regardless though there's so much lag that after using a smooth device it's torturous to try and use android (and this is a nexus one in comparison.) Looks like this year I'll be giving out used android phones as gifts because I'm ashamed of when I was a huge android fanboy... though I guess there was no better viable option at the time.