yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[XPERIA X10 General] 1Learning:
Can't we all just get along? :)

The real frustration is at SE and their lack of software support. Yes, this topic has been discussed before and perhaps this thread can be combined with the other threads (not sure if that can happen) but there's no need to tell others to shut up or not discuss things; if you don't like the thread, don't enter it - it's the same thing many who are telling the others to shut up to do, to go elsewhere.

If we, the consumer, don't bring up our preferences, then what will the companies do? Nothing - they will continue to act as they do. But the consumer can bring up points and complain (yes directly to the companies, here SE) and if enough do, they might change something. There is an old adage that for every letter of complaint a company receives, there are probably a 1000 (at least) that feels the same way that didn't write the letter so companies would adjust. The single drop of water may not be much but an ocean? In other words, enough people complaining in the proper forums can bring about change, whether it be something like social injustice to something like this (which to some is a form of social injustice).

The the X10 is a smartphone. Part of a smartphone is the OS - the underlying OS is what makes it a smartphone, not just the features. For example, if people wanted a camera phone or some other feature phone, they would have bought that and there would be really no complaint about the underlying OS b/c that was not really a major factor in the purchasing decision. But many wanted a smartphone and bought the X10 thinking it's a smartphone. I have to admit, as the Android versions move up and further away, it feels more and more like the (stock) X10 is a feature phone and not a smartphone - SE seems to be treating it as such (feature phones don't really get OS upgrades and you're stuck with whatever apps they give you plus a modicrum of choice). If not for the great work of the developers here at XDA...well let's just say, it would really suck.

Btw, their response as to whether they would update and when would they update the underlying OS when it was still 1.6 from when I emailed them a little while ago:

"Obviously in an ideal world we would keep producing new updates for existing phones forever. However, replacing the base Android version on the 2010 phones in our view simply doesn’t improve the user experience enough to make it viable."

So, maybe customer dissatisfaction made them change their minds...b/c we now have 2.1 (officially).

Plus, you don't think SE employees don't look at XDA? C'mon, it's a major site so if you do bring it up here and they realize that they are not getting away with it and that they may lose revenue from it, well, maybe they'll change their mind...again. They may change their policies once they see the potential loss of revenues. Think about it, if you're complaining here, you're probably talking to others - their potential customers and warning them away. And who knows, maybe it will be worth it to buy another SE phone if they do change. But if they don't, many probably won't...
[XPERIA X10 General] moacyrfilho:
And why don't you go write something that's useful instead of bothering about what's none of your interest?

This was NOT about 1Learning post, though I forgot to quote the one that originated my reply. Sorry for any mess.
[XPERIA X10 General] moacyrfilho:
People who say this kind of thing you said seem to be very dumb. I ask you: why waste your precious time READING, or even worse, REPLYING to a thread that doesn't talk about anything of your interest? That's why we have THREADS! What doesn't interest me, may interest others! Go get busy! Money isn't a problem (at least for me). Consumer respect is! If they sold 12 handsets a year, your argument about recepcionists wages blablabla would at least make sense, but this is not their reality. I think that part-time programmers (like the ones on this forum) doing things that Sony Ericsson (programmers teams) says that are not possible, pretty much ALONE, is ridiculous. I don't want anybody working for free or being miserable (what I can assure that is not the situation of any of Sony Ericsson employees - at least for money). I just don't tolerate people that don't want to do their work and use lies to cover up their attitude (e.g. Hardware is an issue to update X10 to Android 2.2 or 2.3/Our release of 2.1 works better than a Vanilla install).

Please, if you're not interested in helping, criticizing using no fundamented arguments is a bigger waste of time than you think we're doing on this THREAD.
[XPERIA X10 General] loneLEE:
Indeed, you are making my head hurt =X
[XPERIA X10 General] loneLEE:
Yup you got that right. In fact I don't encourage people to change phones like changing their clothes, cos I myself am the 'faithful' type who changes only when the phone is dying out on me or I lose it.

Besides making others understand why Sony Ericsson might be making the effed-up decisions, I'm trying to make the community understand the values of being content.

We all have to draw a clear line between our needs and our wants.

If we can all achieve that, I'm sure those incessant whinings and arguments will decrease significantly, and that we'll have more quality sharings and discussions.

I know nobody died and made me parent/teacher/mentor, but well, if I have the idea, and don't share just because I have to mind my own business, then I'm being selfish in trying to make a difference ._.
[XPERIA X10 General] loneLEE:
Zzzzz. Which part am I not helping??? READ CAREFULLY or maybe pass my quote to your English teacher and let him/her tell you what my intentions were -_-

If money ain't a problem for you (of course not, since it's your parents' money), go get an iPhone and get the 'respect' which you desperately demand.

You think the staffs have the say in stuff?? They were made to read out the scripts written by the higher powers. If you can't tolerate, then abandon the company. After all, without you, I don't think it makes any difference -_-

And by calling me dumb, well, shows how 'intelligent' you are by resorting to name-calling.
[XPERIA X10 General] loneLEE:
Says the kid who's doing the exact thing to others -_-
[XPERIA X10 General] 0711:
you have another choice...wp7 phones ;)
[XPERIA X10 General] moacyrfilho:
Nice said, I can say I agree with you. I don't hate Sony Ericsson (at least for now). I had a Vivaz (which could be a nice android running device, instead of the total supportless Symbian OS). The main thing that made me opt for X10 was the camera capability (that are greatly influenced by the OS development, just look at 720p video with 2.1). But waiting 10 seconds to take a picture, having to wait more 10 secs to turn on the camera led (manually) is a bit disappointing coming from a company that used to have a Cybershot line (like with C905, that is my other handset).

And I can say that Sony Ericsson is kind of unfair about marketing their products. In Brazil, for instance, they sold the Vivaz for something like 700 dollars 1 month ago. I got mine for about 500 dollars in a special offer. My X10 was something like 600 dollars. I could have bought a Moto Defy for 200 dollars 3 weeks ago, but I wanted the 8.1mpix camera with 720p video with android. This is how I make my choices, by choosing what's important for me, but it doesn't mean that I should completely ignore the software development that WILL make the important points of the handset work better. That's what I think! If you don't agree, go rip your money on the streets instead of coming up here and saying that I should stop acting like a child. I have a point (a fundamented one) and I'm expressing my opinion and choosing to support people who think like me (that's a money-wise thinking). Please, don't blame me for trying to make my money worth the value.
[XPERIA X10 General] akila87:
Guys how about letting them to release the Arc and then go ahead and try to port its software to X10. Since gingerbread is working on x10, I think this is possible. We wont get Exmor R but people are improving the camera, and it is working.

Most of us can live without a Bravia engine so that is not needed. We wont get Exmor R but still the camera is better. We won't get MT, but at least we have DT. We wont have Adreno 205 GPU but still we will be able to run 2.3. So still we can get the arc experience :D.

But if SE is sue some one for using Arcs' software then it is a different story :D
[XPERIA X10 General] moacyrfilho:
Man, you LOVE to waste your time saying absurd statements that don't contribute with this thread. Just for the record, there's a LONG time since my parents paid for my things (which they don't do anymore, just to be clearly english-speaking discourse). That's one more reason for wanting value for my money: I have to work to deserve it. I don't see from where you took this idea I don't pay for my things, but, let's forget this silly malformed idea. As someone here said, if consumers didn't complain, we'd still be stuck on Android 1.6 (and motorola users would be stuck on 2.1). I don't like iPhones, if I had one, it would, at best, be my test phone. iPhone doesn't mean respect, afterall. I said you're DUMB just because it's not on my intentions to offend someone drastically in this forum, and I'm keeping it that way. If you got offended, sorry for that. And take a suggestion before involving things like English knowledge and how I pay for my phones on a thread mainly about consumer rights: DON'T BOTHER YOURSELF!

Sorry to all the others that don't have anything to do with all this crap brought up off-topic. I just don't like to be misunderstood.

If anyone wants to talk about consumer rights and how we can get Sony Ericsson to change their minds, I'm totally waiting to listen for suggestions, and, LoneLEE, as you said before, I don't matter for Sony Ericsson, I shouldn't matter to you too. As you, from now on, don't matter to me. Please, don't bother yourself, ok?
[XPERIA X10 General] moacyrfilho:
That's something I just thought about since I saw the Arc tech specs. The only part I don't agree is that Sony Ericsson should do that, not us. :P
[XPERIA X10 General] akila87:
You know what I think, I think J&Z will port it much faster than SE guys :D
[XPERIA X10 General] loneLEE:
Hah! You trying to pass off as an working adult? From the way you speak and whine, it's a wonder one would have trouble believing you as one.

Nobody else besides kids like you complaint about 1.6. Besides the fact that it didn't have Live Wallpaper, there wasn't any big a different. In fact I prefer the old arc-type unlock system.

It's greedy kids like you who doesn't know how to be content with what you have.

So I'm still dumb. Not that I have any way to change your mind about that. At least I can also insist you are intellectually-challenged for resorting to calling names =D

'Consumer rights'. What a joke. You paid for it, and that's it. Just like you paid for a bowl of noodles, you eat it up, regardless of quality and that's it. Don't go expect the cook to add in more seasonings for you after you paid for it.

Your money is not that big a deal for them to treat you like a king.

Blame yourself for not making enough research and reading reviews to understand the potential of having this phone.

It's stuck with 2.1, whether you like it or not. You can throw tantrums on the ground or whatever actions you do often, IT WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

Unless they made a statement saying that the phone doesn't support 2.3, and you prove them wrong (like the pinch-to-zoom case) and spread it across cyberspace, THEY WON'T CHANGE IT.

Grow up. Zzzzzzz
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
What's this about you don't matter to me do not speak to me thing?? how old are you????

Everyone here is stating his/her opinion, we do not have to agree with everything, but we do not have to insult ourselves or call each other names

And as far as "Consumer Rights", believe me, you don't have the right to demand anything from SE, as they did not promise anything, it's their device and they can do whatever they want with it. Unless they promised something they did not deliver, that's a different story
[XPERIA X10 General] folexzy:
what is idiotic about how someone feels and tried to take a step of 50/50 in as much you cant ......that i called cowardness..just shut your mouth up and pretend to be wise.let him try,its better than nothing MR WISE OR SE
[XPERIA X10 General] stan.s:
40.3% That's if you say the phone is sold at the contract/non-contract subsidized price, however, Apple doesn't book the additional money that they get from AT&T per phone as a part of the sales figure markup on the phone.
[XPERIA X10 General] gunawan-1:
1. May be for some people that disappointed with no froyo in x10,go ahead and keep shouting. I feel the same too. We deserve more. Don't just think that all x10 owner join this forum. Many of them don't join this forum. So.. make conclusion and action fairly. For me it must have froyo.

2. I apologize to other people rhat do not agree. May they should stay out of this thread because this not suit you. Don't interfere us from expressing our feeling. PLEASEE...

Gunawan-GN Multimedia-X10i
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
No one is keeping you from expressing your feelings. This is xda, so you should expect to see both sides of the argument. You too are missing the point of this thread. This thread has a call to action. Keep shouting, but do it somewhere that can make a difference is the point of this thread. Have you posted comments on any SE ads? XDA has already given us 2.2, so shouting around here isn't doing any good. SE already made a statement recognizing that as well.
[XPERIA X10 General] Devtone:
Instead of typing these kind of topics, get a paper-route and donate to our brilliant devs.

Get people!
[XPERIA X10 General] gunawan-1:
Are you someone from SE? I haven't post anything yet but I agree because I am X10 user and SE customer too. So... Just let them shout. They are xda member too. Same as you. There are so many threads in this forum. Just find some suit us. Don't interfere some other that do not have the same opinion with you. Or... Do they bother you by writing this thread? Try to understand everybody's feeling is so various. Thanks...

Gunawan-GN Multimedia-X10i
[XPERIA X10 General] k1sr:
Really, the one thing SE should be ashamed of, it the amount of bickering going on in this forum - I have never seen so much cat-fighting going on in a forum like this, ever.

Shame on you SE - we all used to be such nice people :p
[XPERIA X10 General] :
Hey guys, a new question just came to my mind right now.

SE made a statement, right? They said that X10 would only receive one major update, and that happened already. Okay, Im happy with Eclair (but I would be excited with Froyo :D, Im looking at you, custom ROMs!), and some guys are remarking that very well... So, in conclusion, SE is very respectful in following the rules of their own statements, and that's actually kinda good.

But the question is: what are the reasons for doing such a statement? In what points SE based to declare that X10 SHOULD NOT/CANNOT be upgradable to Android 2.2? Hardware specs.? No capable engineers/programmers? Being new in Android? No understanding this OS? Marketing strategy?

I wanna put this very clear: IM NOT flamming/hating/whining, Im asking this 'cause I believe that we at least deserve a decent and valid explanation, of course Im not demanding to be explained here but if anyone knows where I could get it, or who to ask, please tell me.

Maybe SE have good and acceptable reasons, maybe not. I want to see that.

What I don't understand is why working in time-consuming applications like Timescape, wich it does practically nothing special or helpful, it only eats RAM and slows down the CPU performance. I'd like to have an explanation for that too. Mediascape isn't bad (for me), but is not super good, I'd say it's a regular app. but Timescape is just a terrible piece of software...

:confused:
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
Their statement said that it would not greatly improve the user experience. They are talking about the 70-90% who just use the device as intended. The average user doesn't monitor RAM usage, or care where their apps are stored. They aren't flashing their phones or any of the stuff we do here on xda. They use the device to make calls, check messages and email, social networking, google searches, maps, camera, calendar, and some personal apps. All of which can be done effectively with stock 2.1.

I got my X10a during the 2.1 update fiasco, so I only had 1.6 for a short time. When I got the update, I was a little bit let down, as it didn't appear to be much different. It didn't greatly improve my user experience. It was only after I started hacking my phone that I was able to make noticeable differences. The average person who just uses the device, without knowing or caring how it works, is the focus. That's probably why we got multi touch vs. another OS update.
[XPERIA X10 General] nvana:
Not the updates that are the problem

Personally i dont think wither to keep the update going or not can determine SE as good or bad. furthermore that is not the core issues with SE.

wht i think is the major problem is their strategy. They spent their time trying to come up with timescape, mediascape and face recondition as their selling point and making the device unique has backed fire one them. (NOT saying they are not gread ideas and apps) they are all great ideas and great innovations but i speculate these are the reason why it came out with 1.6 and late updates. Simply they can not get things done in time on their hands. they should have just made the software simple and smooth then once they gain the customers trust then they can work on something like the time scape, media scape and etc or dont release the phone at all untill they have a good team to handle the tasks at hand. they were really nice apps but really it was really slow and eventually annoying to use. Bc they should know the fancy hardware and software can only go so far but what really wins the customer is the user experience and the good customer support that
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
Maaan, that's a very long thing to read.. especially when I just woke up :eek:

Alright let's see, for starter, when you talk about Geeks community be aware that you are talking about 10% of the people who are buying the Xperia. Now SE is focusing more on the other 90% (average user).

I can elaborate with an example of my own, as I am a Geek and I like to modify, change, brick, flash or whatever I can do with the Xperia 10 I will not hesitate to do it, I can't say that I'm not enjoying the X10 because I love and learned to accept it as it is. However, My younger brother got the Xperia 10 too, and he is an average user that uses it for game, camera, texts, browsing... etc.

One thing I noticed is that his experience with the Xperia is better than mine, he enjoys it more than I do.

I'm not saying that all average users are satisfied, but they don't care about what version they run as long as it is stable and meets their requirements.

And if you looked at the Timescape and mediascape widgets in the ARC you'll see why SE spent time focusing on that ( better performance, RAM friendly )

I believe that one of the reason they did not upgrade to 2.2 is because they are focusing now on 2.3 UXP ( Xperia UI ), and in order to have 2.2 they need to shift resource to make an Xperia UI for the 2.2 which will cost them more money and time
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
Huh? Did you read the post I was quoting? I was telling the other guy the same thing...it's not his place to tell people not to post opposing views. He was also mistaken that this was another whining about SE thread, when it clearly the OP's intention to get people to complain in a more effective location...in SE online ads. An idea that I have supported more than once in this thread, and I was supporting again in my post. Maybe it didn't sound that way in text. Trust me, I am all about the power of free speech to create change, and allowing everyone to express their opinion, I'm an American. :-)

Edit: I just realized that you are the same person. Your English was better, so I assumed it was someone else. Clearly, something is getting lost in translation.
[XPERIA X10 General] gunawan-1:
Come on. If it so, just try to help how to make SE more understand us in many possible way.

Gunawan-GN Multimedia-X10i
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
I'm trying to help you by telling you the point of this thread is to post comments on SE online advertising about their history of not supporting their devices for the full two years that they are claiming.

I don't think just whining in the forums is going to do much. If anything, it comes across wrong and SE won't respond to it, because they don't want to encourage or prolong the tactic.
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
The two year support clearly says ( up to ), so it could be a year or two, however SE did not say that they will stop supporting the X10, they just stated that there will be no Major upgrades in terms of OS. Similar to their other phones, unless a bug is discovered they will not update it ( minor updates, fixes ) for up to two years.

It happened with my AINO, updated it a few months ago to increase the performance.

The point of this thread is very clear, I don't know why people mix up things... ( not pointing at you of course )

as I said before, I'm with this move, except I'm going for the 2.3, as for me, 2.2 is useless now
[XPERIA X10 General] :
You know, when I put myself to write, sometimes I just go this far without thinking about the consequences :D

I agree with your points. However, Let's not forget that SE delivered the X10 running A1.6 and they were working in 2.1 around eight months. I think they could work in 2.2 instead. Im pretty sure the X10 could be upgradable from 1.6 to 2.2.

But again... I feel that SE hasn't started very well w/ Android. Or there is not a deep relationship between SE and Google. Dunno.
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
When SE started optimizing 2.1 for the X10, at that time 2.2 wasn't release... I can't explain why they didn't cancel 2.1 and started with 2.2, maybe they thought there is no time to optimize 2.2, maybe they had other problems who knows :)

But I think they are in good relation with Google now, especially since they got Gingerbread before release to work on it for the ARC
[XPERIA X10 General] agentJBM:
I totally agree with you that SE is still supporting this device, and they fulfilled their obligation with 2.1 including multitouch. However, I would gladly accept another update. In my opinion, this thread offers a possible strategy to get that done, and an productive way for the whiners to express their opinion. If you're going to complain about a problem, you should also be part of a solution. Otherwise you're just part of the problem.
[XPERIA X10 General] MJ_QaT:
+1

agreed
[XPERIA X10 General] :
Yeah I agree, and the proof of it is that at this moment, there are only two phones with A2.3, Arc and Nexus S. So that means more SE's interest in Android, now they can improve their skills in this OS and do great phones but that doesn't mean they could abandon X10. In fact, I believe they won't do it, I hope not being wrong. So, I'll wait for one more big update.

And as I said it before: Im not buying Arc, but that doesn't mean I won't ever buy another SE phone. If there is a good handset of this company in the year when I am planning to get a new phone (end of 2012) that fullfills my requierements, then I'll go for it.