yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
What other IOS users are you talking about? Updates are free for iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch. HTTP://www.apple.com/ios
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Hmmm...Apple must have changed the upgrade process. It used to be a $5 charge to upgrade an iPhone. I recall a lot of people *****ing about the idiotic charge just to upgrade. I never had to pay it on my first gen iPhone because that fee wasn't implemented in the beginning. But I wouldn't have payed it when it was.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
http://ipod.about.com/od/troubleshootingyouripod/qt/ipod-touch-upgrade-fee.htm
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
WMP

WMC

Zune

Three media players.
[Windows Phone 7 General] markgamber:
Untrue. iPhone and iPad and iPod touch MINOR (1.0 to 1.5, for example) updates are, or so far have been, free but iPod Touch major updates (1.0 to 2.0, for example) will cost you.
[Windows Phone 7 General] frankd14321:
Nag Nag Nag.... Android was pointless back at launch too! At least I don't have to restart my Windows Phone 10 times a day like my HD2 or Android phones.. I have had my phone for 2 months and have yet to pull the battery and have only had to reboot 5-6 times. THATS THE BIG PLUS FOR ME, it just always works.

Your getting your copy/paste feature you so desperately need very soon.

To me Windows Phone 7 is a great phone. Does is lack Navigation, copy/paste, multitasking, and other precious things...? Of course, but so did Android for the first 1.5 years!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] vista1984:
true, true,,

wp7 is not bad, but may be still disappoint some people because expectations were too high before it came out.

compare to android's roadmap is kind of useless,, situation in 2008, which android was launch, is totally different from current one. if wp7 also takes 1.5 year to make the os more complete, i would say probably wp7 will fail.

2011 will be very important year for wp7, i would say. survived or .....
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I'm dumbfounded why people use the "Android or iPhone didn't have it" excuse. It is so illogical. Just because the Model-T ford back in 1920s didn't have air conditioning, does that mean it is acceptable for a late model Lexus to not have air conditioning? It is just so illogical to compare a late model smartphone to an earlier one. If the tech is already invented and especially used on all other smartphones, why bring out a smartphone that doesn't have it? And then why also would anyone even have a spark of a thought about using an old model as excuse for current offerings?
[Windows Phone 7 General] JonP81:
It makes sense to do the updates because it keeps their brand image, look at the new App store for mac, it was just a free update, they didnt hold out till the release of OS 10.7 that might be out later this year.

And the Xbox is a very valid comparison, you say that MS are too late.... look what happened with them and the xbox compared to the PS2 market share wise, now look at the xbox brand.

MS are more than willing to throw money repeatedly at a market to get a market share.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
The only WMC I know is Windows Media Connect, but it's a server, not a player. Either way, what do these have to do with our discussion? Sorry, I'm lost.

Okay, maybe, and you guys are saying that selling those updates is the profit center allowing iPhone updates to remain free? Seriously?
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Yes, why would a phone OS be released lacking a GPU accelerated UI. The technology has been out quite some time and it's really not that hard to program in. I mean the technology has been around for some time now and they are in like their 5th major version and still it's just awful. All phones are lacking features others could have. If they all had eachother's features then we wouldn't really need to make a decision in terms of a phone OS. Obviously you're still holding out for windows phone 7 despite what you say about trying to turn it into an android phone. That won't happen, there's nowhere near as much support behind the HD7and there's no reason to flash a low-end OS on a mid-upper range device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
If Android doesn't happen, then I do a hack and open mine up to the features. Either way, I will get proper features on my investment. If WP7 is as good as they say and as desirable, the community will eventually provide all the apps a person could ever want to sideload.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
On a (more) positive note:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/24/windows-phone-7-jailbreak-devs-genuinely-excited-by-microsoft/
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
By that logic the HD2 and Toshiba should've gotten a WP7 upgrade. The app store is just that, its not a OS update.

The Xbox isn't competing against thousands of phones, only a handful of competitors. Not a good comparison at all. There is not a new PS3 every year, or new console every few months.

Windows Media Center

Windows Media Player

Zune

Why must there be three media players on my PC?

No, my argument is that WP7 updates will be small and fruitless. Nothing major will ever come from it. It doesn't sell new phones, and it doesn't make business sense to keep updating old hardware for free. All major features will be held for another OS.

Because the OS you speak of is open, and it doesn't make sense to program for just one type of chip when your OS is being used on other types.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sorry, but there's absolutely zero connection visible between iPod Touch updates and future WP7 updates.

Re WMC, I don't use it, and what does it have to do with the discussion? Having to install Zune, an extra player, a downside of WP7? You gotta be kidding. My Android using colleagues have to use two or three Exchange clients and several Office packages to be able to get files and view them. Installing Zune is nothing in comparison.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
BTW did they try ProfiMail for Android?
[Windows Phone 7 General] jaidedfocus:
Yeah, Android did lack those things at first which is why they now have them. People complained about it and it was given. But tell me how an OS that was just released after all the talk about iOS not having these features gets loaded and released without the same features. Features that even Windows Mobile 6.5has. Kind of like a step backwards if you ask me. A few steps

WinMo has access to files - WP7 doesn't unless its hacked

WinMo can tether - WP7 doesn't even after being hacked

WinMo has copy paste - WP7 doesn't and should

WinMo you can change your ringtones with ease - WP7 you can't

Just a few things and I'm sure there are more. Don't get me wrong, WP7 seems to be a very promising OS, but if you enter a race late you don't neglect to remember things a racer needs like running shoes, a water bottle, and a towel which are all basic things. I'm looking forward to playing with WP7 some more but only after it has been updated and cooked thorougly by the devs who seem to know what an OS needs.

BTW - Using Android on my HD2 with the right Android ROM, I rarely ever have to perform a reset...
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
But that doesn't really explain why android lacks GPU accelerated UI. Surely since its open, all the implementations of android on various chips would have hardware accelerated UI?
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
like I've said before, iPhone entered the market with features missing that existed in every dumbphone and it won out. It showed that most people do no really care about features as much as user experience. Why do you have to treat wp7 differently. Both phones came out in competitive market with a lot of features missing. In the case of iPhone it lacked features against every other phone. In case of wp7 it lacks some features of every other phone.

If you're going give iPhone a pass, then you can't treat wp7 differently.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
lets see you hack android to get gpu accelerated UI. Hmm I didn't think so. Not so open after all eh?
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
well the tech like copy paste, multi tasking, proper Bluetooth, file browsers, ability to send SMS to multiple recipients at once, mms etc already existed when the iPhone wad launched. You have to wonder what Apple were doing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I've explained it already. To further discuss Android ask in a Android forum. I can guarantee no one is asking about WP7 in the Android forums.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
No one wondered. It was clear that they were entering the phone world for the very first time.

I remember these forums laughing it off, and didn't even consider it a smartphone.

Just like people laughed at the ipad. Now Android and IOS devices are reshaping the PC market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
No you haven't. You just said its open. Anyway lets look at particular android implentations. Why doesn't desire or desire HD have hardware accelerated UI. Why doesn't the dual core Motorola have hardware accelerated UI?

now I am not talkin about android in general but android running on a particular chip. Why hasn't android been optimised for that chip like you claimed it would be

If you go to the hd2 forums you will see many comments about how much smoother wp7 than android running on the same hardware.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
Wait, from you comments I am under the impression that you are perfectly happy for an os not having gpu accel UI just because its used across a large range of chips. I would find that worse than not having c/p because you are always using the UI while c/p only on certain occasions. Many people would choose a smooth and fluid user experience. That is where wp7 is superior to android, and I don't even know why you're makin excuses for it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Now you're not understanding. Its up to the OEMs to do all of that. Google can't do it, as it would mean programming for one chip only.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Isn't is excellent! The HD2 Android ROMs, I feel, are better than owning an actual Android phone. They are just purely outstanding. Some people complain of lag in Android. My experience with HD2 Android has been silky smooth and trouble-free. I never do a reset or pull the battery. But I stick to the higher level ROMs, too. My current one, the MDJ CyanogenMOD 7, is nothing shy of amazing. Super smooth and bugless. And it appears the battery life is better than WP7.

I'm glad to read from another HD2 Android appreciater. [virtual handshake]
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
But you can't use that logic for launching a modern smartphone. If you use that logic, the iPhone should still be featureless. It isn't. The iPhone, and nearly every other smartphone in the market have all of the currently missing features of WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Who made an excuse? Me personally, I don't care about copy and paste, or a graphic accelerated UI. Neither matter, as I can still do whatever I like on my phone. Just like on all my WM devices, it was pure freedom. Should I give that up for looks?

To be honest, scrolling around my homepages I don't notice any lag, scroll through my app list no lag. Yeah it gets choppy in the browser, but you have to remember my browser is doing a lot more than yours. Text reflow, flash, desktop etc...
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
except that's exactly what Apple did. Replace iPhone with any other phone, and wp7 with iPhone in the last sentence and you see the irony. You can't use that logic to say its to late for WP7 either.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I'm referring to common features, not their closed nature. The iPhone may be shy of some features that open-sourced smartphone OSs have, but it still has all of the features I desire in a smartphone. WP7 doesn't. Not only that, but MS even removed a feature from WP7 that it launched with that I used and have needed use for: user created email folders. Explain removing features already present at launch?
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
that doesn't really matter for the consumer. I would like to buy an android device with hardware accelerated ui but since neither Google nor any of the oems offer it, android is an inferior solution for me. For all its renderin Innacuracies web browsing on wp7 is by far a better experience than android with its choppy panning, scrolling and zooming.

And i do not see how optimising for one chip is bad. Right now every option laggy. The OEMs would still have an option to include chips that don't have a

Hardware accel.

IN any case, even googles nexus didn't have hardware accel even though it was marketed as a Google phone. Google should provide an API like DirectX in windows which allows OEMs to hook into windows hw acceleration
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
I bought a WP7 at launch. How exactly did they remove a feature when they haven't even released any updates to the os yet? Was it really present at launch.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
What I am saying is that when the iPhone first launched people it lacked features of existing phones just like how wp7 lacks features of existing phones. The iPhone managed to sell regardless sk its still early to say its too late for wp7. just like how there were people that didn't care about the iPhones missing features back then, there are many people who don't care about wp7s missing features now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
IPhone is for you then. I think you skipped over my other posts.

Optimizing for one chip is not a good idea on a open platform, research it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I don't think you get it. The entire phone market was different then. Apple made their first entry back then, not their 6th.

If this was 2007, and MS included just some of the missing functions in WP7, there is no question that the iPhone wouldn't be as big as it is today.

Wp7 too little too late.
[Windows Phone 7 General] jaidedfocus:
Only thing is a lot of people didn't know it was lacking these features and to be honest, it didn't need to offer those features right from the jump. It offered something phones at that time did not offer. WP7 and Microsoft don't have that luxury this late in the game.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
Just because you're making your first phone doesn't really excuse you from leaving out so many features that the existing phones had. But obviously not many people cared about those missing features. Many even defended the lack of features by saying they didn't need copy paste or multitaskin. Just like we had many people not care about iPhones missing features, we have many people who do not care about WP7s missing features. I see you have said nothing to address this point. Note that I am not claiming that wp7 is perfect or that there are no missing features. I am just saying that bypast evidence its still early to dismiss wp7 as too little too late.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
oh people definitely knew because they actively defended the lack of features by saying its useless and they don't need it. Just like how they currently defend the lack of flash.

As for wp7, it offers a completely new user experience. Even the most ardent fanboys will find it hard to argue that ripped off anyone. Everyone who uses the new UX loves it just like how everyone loved the new UX that the iPhone provided. This is what is going to carry wp7 along. We are to focused on what's missing instead of looking at what it does well. Its very smooth. I would never imagine going to android until they implement hardware accell. While notifications are not as good as android, they're miles better than iOS. The music player puts androids player to shame. Web browsing is a smlkther experience. Bing integration works really well. The email app is a thing of beauty. These are the things I and most non techie users will be using most. Wp7 provides a much better core experience to anroid and provides an equal but alternative experience to the iPhone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I have 3 user-made email folders to prove it. By the way, WP7 even presented a nice ittle tutorial about how to make the folders.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
The only result a Google query brought is your own thread about the issue. I have been following wp7 news even since it was announced daily across blogs, forums etc and this is the first I've heard of this. We need more cases because i still don't believe they could have removed something without releasing a software update. I have user created folders too but these were synced over from the web.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Reflexx1:
I have user created folders also. Synced from the web.

I just transferred some stuff from one folder to another on my phone today.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I have 4 email accounts:

Hotmail

Gmail

Yahoo

POP3 PC based (Thunderbird or Outlook Express type) - Made 3 folders

The only account I needed to make folders in was the POP3 because it can't sync to the phone. The other accounts sync'd the needed folders.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
Well, its certainly strange but I you can't really accuse MS of removing features after launch based on your sole experience. And given the scrutiny the tech press gives Wp7 I honestly doubt anything major would go unnoticed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Yes, I accept that. I have no problem with anyone not making anything out of it. But, for me, it is personal about WP7 and MS. I always felt like maybe there was some kind of performance issue MS discovered that caused them to remove the folder making function. But I can't think of anything about making folders in an email account that would hinder the performance of this slick OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MrAndrewAu:
Windows Phone 7 is too little, yes, but not too late. 80% of the mobile subscription is the non-smartphone market. Of course, it's going to be hard converting these non-smartphone users to using a smartphone because of three things: 1) expensive data plans 2) weak economy right now and 3) the fact that many people simply have no interest. For example, my dad who's turning 58 years old would never be caught dead using a smart phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Does it support Exchange?

Anyway, they tried (and are still trying) everything, and one of them is our admin. No go with anything except RoadSync, which is so butt ugly that nobody can use it on a regular basis, and even this one fails every once in a while. Server logs show that clients just stop downloading data, as if they were losing internet access, no errors, nothing. You get part of the attachment (sometimes 100KB, sometimes a megabyte, and it pauses forever, also showing no errors). Judging by code.google.com and a few forums, this happens sometimes with Android, there is a bugreoport filed and nobody knows what causes it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Nothing like that follows from that logic. HD2 and Toshiba are phones that are heavily modified by OEMs. If you ever cooked a ROM you know that in most cases you simply cannot mix a new SYS with an old OEM and expect nothing to break. Lots of things break, and you spend a lot of time investigating, mixing and matching, testing etc. etc. So the upgrade involves a lot of work from the OEM who a) doesn't care b) doesn't have resources because they are busy making new phones where everything is different c) doesn't want to train their own and operator staff about new features and d) won't do anything unless operators pay them to.

Microsoft and Google, on the other hand, do new versions regardless, so as a general rule they have no reason to hold off code if it's ready. Thus you get upgrades on Nexus One, why not? And every WP7 device is a Nexus phone by definition.

WP7 is a very different product for Microsoft. WM was a product for OEMs, WP7 is for end users. You couldn't call 1-800-MICROSOFT or whatever number they have to ask why something isn't working on HD2. With WP7, you can. No matter which manufacturer made your phone. If anything, it's more cost efficient to have one version across the board. If a new version of the OS is out, they'll tell you to update before saying anything. That's one of the reasons why Apple supports their devices as far back as possible.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Do you have any idea wth you're talking about?
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Maybe urn admin or network is bad. Been using stock exchange clients in android (sense and then galaxy s) for almost a year with no issues. Android's exchange issues are policy support and encryption, not connectivity.

Wp7's policy support is just as bad as android, so its near useless on most non-trivial corporate exchange server setups. If your phone doesn't support certain policies the server refuses the connection. It is not really fit for business use, which is a shame cause they could javelin gotten some fast and easy marketplace from rim and the others if it was...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Maybe. But nobody in the world seems to know what causes it.

There's no argument about the fact that WP7 isn't made for enterprise use. Do I care? Theoretically yes. In practice - no, because it works for me unlike Android.

In general, it's an amazingly high quality product. It doesn't do many things but what it does it does well. There are a lot of people to whom I wouldn't recommend it at this stage though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
just go to YouTube and search for attic vs focus and you will see the difference in smoothness.
[Windows Phone 7 General] radoste:
Are you guys on drugs ????

Too little too late.

The platform came out 2 and 1/2 months ago.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nrfitchett4:
I agree. A couple of people who have switched to wp7 since I showed it to them, have not complained once about a lack of copy and paste, or multitasking. I would say maybe with android and the froyo update, people were informed, mainly because their coworker had flash video and they didn't, and then months later they are still waiting. But I have not seen this at all on wp7 except on this forum.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
So I hope THIS IS YOUR LAST POST HERE.

Don't waiste time here on nonsense!

At the same time nobody cares what "average" consumer does.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
Minority

Please try to remember that the XDA member who cares about this stuff (a subset of all XDA members) represents a very small segment of the Microsoft market for WP7 (obviously, since they did not include these "critical", phone "bricking" features that we are deep ending on in this forum). Most users just don't care. It's nice that we have taken on the mantel to save the rest of the smartphone users and push these items, but other than us, most users just don't care.

Nonsense??? Many of my friends, most coming from WM 6.5, have switched to WP7 and love it. Or from WM6.5 to Android to WP7. They are not complaining about these missing "features" and I am not either. The pros just outweigh the cons, it's that simple. MS has to care about the average user if they want to make inroads into the market. They don't need to cater to us, XDA members. They could ignore us completely and it would have little impact on their sales (IMHO).

I would hazard a guess that if the average non-XDA member and target market for WP7 were to read these threads they would wonder if we really had a life and what other rediculous stuff we could find to deep end about.

Sorry, but these threads are becoming laughable.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
"NONSENSE" was cynical of course.

It may be all laughable of course, but for people who don't really dig into any functionality deeper. This is my opinion.

For people who get stuck it's not funny anymore.

And what is more important, thinking about "average" only is ****ed up idea.

Besides it's socially sick, you have no real clue what "average" is.