yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
The userbase for WM wasn't big at all. MS HAD to do this to stay relevant in the mobile market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Big meaning an average 6 percent market share? When you're beat out by garbage like blackberry you have to do something to stay relevant and they did something truly profound in the process. They came out with the first device that works well out of the box. Oh, wah, it doesnt have C&P and it doesnt have multi-tasking. It also doesnt have a laggy UI, fragmentation, crap keyboards, terrible auto-correct, the list goes on. All in all, I'd pick the phone that works over the one that... manages to get by.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That's what I thought. You say **** you to all of them.

But even 6 percent a year is a significant number multiply 10.

And there were years when the market share was bigger.

But what I was saying was not relevant to a necessary change to gain marketshare.

I was talking about how current WM users see it and they are apparently garbage for you. But it's the other way around in fact.

What will happen we will see.

I am absolutely sure that if MS will not bring the stuff to WP7, nice UI will not boost any extra sales for them and they will lick others shoes.

The decisions are to be made.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tenchi221:
this made me laugh..
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
So, bend over to the aggravated minority or fail? Doesn't exactly make too much sense. Their market share hit 9 percent at the highest in 2010 so even if at one point years ago it stood a chance in the phone OS wars that time is long past. Hell, even if they didnt add copy & paste and multi-tasking I'd prefer it to android or iphone because neither of those are what I want or need in a device. WP7 even in its current version is flawless in what it does and what it doesnt do isnt really all that important to me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
You do realize the best design is one that tries to satisfy everyone? If you don't need C&P or Multitasking, you don't have to use them. But to leave them out would mean a segment of users who do need those features would be unsatisfied. Simple logic, really.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Audio:
But in the same logic, to add these features in prematurely would ruin the fluidity of the OS.

Some people would say that they simply rushed the OS out and by doing so have missed these "important" features.

I believe that MS has simply released the OS without these features to get the OS out there and to allow them to build their initial userbase. As many people have said already, the OS is flawless at doing what it can/does. Surely the only thing the OS can do now is grow? And, providing MS does it right, their userbase will too.

Just my thoughts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
And by that logic it implies MS is incapable of competing effectively. If they aren't good enough or smart enough to make the OS run fine or keep the same "fluidity" with those functions from the start, they won't be able to compete...or should find the necessary talent.
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
To some degree, yes. They were incapable of competing, which is why, rather than releasing the WM7 we all expected they did a complete reboot and came up with WP7.

The reason many of these features are not in the OS from day one is quite simply down to them needing to meet the launch deadline. Several features were cut to get something out there before it was too late - which it would have been had they missed the October/November launch.

One still wonders why they didn't anticipate future needs and upped hardware specs somewhat though. Could be because they are already planning a major upgrade to the platform which will require new hardware (read Mango).
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
You contradict youself in an ugly way. You tell me that it is MS strategy but in the end you say it is just your opinion and you can live with all these flaws. It has nothing to do with MS strategy.

As I said before. If you don't need these missing basics, you are either treating your phone as a toy, don't do much on the phone really or are just a fanboy.

A good OS is the one which pleases masses while under the hood can do much more. All existing OSes are built this way, only WP7 in some areas not.

WP7 is flawless? Give me a fckn break. I want to attach two docs to emai, but I can't. Buhaha.

And please tell me, looking and WP7 and Adroid, what is that you can do on WP7 and cannot do on Android.

I use WP7 as a main device so maybe I make my humour better today.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Fully understand and in time those things will come but my personal opinion is I'd rather have some things done with others coming in future updates than everything done but hastily and poorly so
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Nodo doesn't look good, and right now Mango doesn't look good either(unless they're still adding to it).
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Eh, they don't want to release anything half-assed and regardless the updates look to be putting a lot more on the table than any of the 2.x android updates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Really? I am waiting to answer what are those amazing features which surpass current Android incarnations. I would really like to know.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Of course I could go into the typical argument about the lack of lag and the general function of WP7 versus androids hastily thrown together laggy UI that essentially looks like an iphone clone with lag but in this argument I was talking about the recent updates. I mean what new and amazing features have 2.2 or 2.3 brought to the table for android? I'd hardly consider them enough for a "major upgrade."
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
I find it pretty amazing they are still optimizing the OS and thereby reducing lag this far into it's release cycle. Does that count? :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
z33dev33l - you are still flapping around and haven't answered doministry's question
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Even copy and paste is a bigger upgrade than anything android has put out since eclair
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yeah. So all you guys have to say is a "lag" argument.

I mean I hate lags but I was asking about serious stuff. Features.

But I read nothing about it.

As for WP7, yes it needs optimizing too in some areas since it also has lags and refreshing problems with faster activity.

Not to mention Marketplace being totally unreliable.

I wait for a serious answer.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I can guarantee updates will be slow, and not worthwhile. Why, there is no money to be made updating current phones. Its beyond a bad idea, it just doesn't make money. Apple does it because they make money off of other IOS products that must purchase the updates.

You don't increase your market share by making sure old phones get new features.

So WP7 will always be too little too late.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Mileage will vary. For me the advantages are clear. Unlike Android, I can use WP7 at work because it downloads attachments from Exchange while Android fails at this task. I can then view those attachments, while Android fails to render half of the PowerPoint slides I get. Out of work, it is the only smartphone OS apart from IOS which I can use instead of a music player. Android has horrible codecs, whether you look at the built in stuff, OEM drivers or third party software.

Android is superior in other ways, and for other people my priorities may be irrelevant. Equally I don't care about multitasking or changing skins.

There are annoyances, of course, but for me Android is a half baked DIY thing no matter how many features it has.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
How is lag not serious stuff. Lag effects every aspect of the phone. In terms of features I truly don't find WP7 lacking anything necessary aside from flash, it does what it does miraculously and with xbox live support I could see it becoming a gaming device as much as a phone especially with what we've already got on the market. What do you mean unreliable market? The fact that it went down one day for a little while? How flawless does something have to be? Obviously not too flawless if android is the phone of choice.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Considering the lag on Android, you must be totally kidding.

Lack of this on WP7 is a laughable reason to choose it over Android.

By unreliable Market I mean this crap crashes every second or third day.

Are you joking?

As I read you posts, I think you really don't do anything with your device.

Pointless discussion.

As for "Gaming platform" - do you have any clue how many games has been released on Android or iOS?

Lol. They are great gaming platforms
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I understand the Exchange point.

As for music, I don't take it.

I mean every device on this planet plays .mp3 and .wav files,

So I see no point here.

Funny how part of your reasoning business/profi oriented.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JonP81:
What an odd way to view it, MS will sell copies based on user experience, if you improve an experience on older devices, when other people see those phones they will be more inclined to buy one, if its featuring some random feature they need or want, rather than missing due to being on an old version.

Its no different from how their Xbox works, they release Dash updates, wether it be for a 3 year old xbox or a week old xbox.

The way you can have a delay on carriers/phone makers being so slow to ship Android updates causes a loss of sales.

I personally have not recommended Android do to this very issue. I had a customer who was on 1.6 and an app that would only work on later versions, he had to wait about 5 months for his HTC hero to be updated, so he could have the app.

Personally I think WP7 is a step in the right direction, and much better than I expected.

I have a phone with each OS on to support various customers, so I have here a iPhone 3GS and a Samsung Galaxy S, along with a HD7.

And for most peoples needs from my experience the WP7 is a good choice, it offers a variety that the iphone doesnt, E.g. I have a client who has poor eye sight, so a big 4.3" screen is a nice benefit.

So now they could choose Android or WP7, now for most people it boils down to a few simple things.

1) does it do my basics e.g. Phone, email, web access

2) can I download the odd app to pass the time.

Thats most peoples criteria from my experience. Now as a general experience for none messers, WP7 ticks all the boxes, except imo storing the state of apps (iphones way of multitasking)

Once a version of that has been added I dont see much that would matter to most people.

Though I do have plenty of wants personally, silly little things like Groups for contacts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm talking about sound quality. The difference is immense on my headphones (Westone 3). Even on HD2, where you can compare it on the same hardware.

And why is the part where I talk about work funny?
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I was at one point like that in terms of lag, hell between iOS and android I didnt even notice a lag on android until I started using WP7 daily. Now any time I use android everything just seems so choppy and laggy. I purchase things from the market frequently and currently have 13 xbox live titles on my phone all of which I have at least played if not beaten and most of which (aside from fruit ninja and iblast moki) are not just ports of an iOS game. I always hated iOS and until now never realized why people obsessed over it but now I get it. Why get an android device for music/games/movies/any sort of media when iOS just did it better and with better hardware? If insane amounts of lag are a worthy price to pay for cheap ports then I don't understand mobile priorities. I like my games original and optimized for my system.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Thing is its nothing like an XBOX. Not even close.

No one besides tech sites care about updates on a phone. No one. They just purchase another one.

You think carriers and OEMs care about updating old devices? No. They can just sell a newer one to make more money, and increase their market share.

I'm pretty much sure Microsoft will follow the same route, like they have been doing. Any major features will be held until WP8, or whatever they call it. Perfect example, the snap feature in Windows 7, you're telling me they couldn't put that in Vista, or XP?
[Windows Phone 7 General] uberamd:
Eh, I was a fan of WP7 for about 3 days before I realized how boring and nonfunctional it is. No copy/paste, fine. Terrible apps, whatever. Internet Explorer as the browser, TERRIBLE! Sites don't render properly, its slow, and poorly implemented.

As a whole, the OS is very boring. Now I understand why they advertise the ability to "quickly get your information and get back to reality", because the OS is so boring you can only spend a few seconds using it before you have exhausted everything there is to do with it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Windows has a timed release for all their new operating systems that they've been following for years and hey, one of my computers I bought with windows ME (ancient hardware) still runs windows 7 quite nicely. Ya know, since were comparing phones to computers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Doesn't one of your 3 media players on your PC have to convert your movies for your phone? I haven't had to convert anything on my phone, nothing. I haven't ran into a codec that it doesn't handle.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
So why didn't your computer running ME get the free upgrade? My bad, no company offers such things.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JonP81:
I beg to differ, of course people care, otherwise people wouldn't have updated their iPhones.

Heck I know 50 odd year old women who aren't tech savvy but they all updated their iphones.

Of course carriers and OEMs want you to just buy more, thats how they make money, but if 1 OEM puts out updates that adds functionality to their phone that you are stuck with on a 2 year contract, and others dont. Then its just another sales pitch isnt it?

Im not saying they couldnt add funtionality to XP/Vista that is in W7, but you arnt really comparing like for like are you?

Windows is a dominative platform, Windows Phone 7 is a new platform, being a constantly progressing platform is a selling point to everyone, not just tech savvy.

And as for the its nothing like the xbox, well actually it is, they want to create a brand, if you can sell every gamer who has a xbox by saying they can get XBLA games on your phone, its just another revenue for them.

And at the same time if those people that casually buy a phone end up with a WP7 and play games come over to the xbox then even more money for MS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Win7 exists to run netbooks. Win7 should be the easiest OS ever for the majority of hardware configs. The reason MS put out Win7 was to be able to have a viable OS for the burgeoning netbook industry. At the time netbooks starting getting super popular, Vista was the main OS. But MS knew Vista was way too much of a resourse hog for diminutive netbooks to run. So in order to take advantage of what MS believed would be a booming market, they, in record time, developed Win7 to get in on the windfall of netbook sales.

If it wasn't for the netbook, Vista might still be the dominant desktop OS.

(my view of how MS does things and interpretation of the events)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
No! The part about your work is great, I also like to use devices for work!

I was talking about the argument you used.

In the context of many discussions here - how WP7 is more consumer oriented and not business yet, however you like some of it's business quality.
[Windows Phone 7 General] uberamd:
Wait, what? Back in 2001 (when ME was out) systems were generally under or around 1GHz in speed and had 64-512MB of RAM. And you mean to tell me that it runs Windows 7 quite nicely? Seriously, how low are your standards on performance?
[Windows Phone 7 General] crsnwby:
I like my WP7 HTC Trophy, coning from iPhone 3G, to Nokia N900, Nexus One, to HTC Trophy. I can clearly say that the Trophy is the fastes phone by far and the only one that has not slowed down to a crawl when I get it full of apps.

I gave the wife the nexus one and cant stand using it now it seems soo slow at the interface. The N900 is used to play my media streamed from my PC. The iPhone got sold as it was terrible and grinds to a halt after installing any apps of any use.

I dont miss copy and paste as I never use it anyway, I dont really care about multitasking as its not viable on a phone and I dont know why everyone gets a boner about it, its not as if you need to switch between watching a video and writing a text, you can only do one at a time with your brain so just do one at a time with your eyes.

As for silent mode, why not try pressing the volume button and pressing the little icon which is a bell, hey presto silent mode. or just turn it all the way down?
[Windows Phone 7 General] hazard99:
throwing my two cents in.

I played with a microsoft reps hd7 and was blown away by how smooth it was. It was so smooth I was ready to pick one up considering I loved my hd2 so much.

It was when friend got his samsung optimus my mind changed. While the minimalist look is in right now It just doesnt cut it for me. The os has a function or form feel to it. Which is great for those who like that. I just wonder how much lag will be introduced when htc or motorola starts to skin wp7.

If it stays lag free and they introduce sd cards along with the enternal memory I might be a fan. If it stays that bland there is now way im switching.

btw this isnt a flame.... just my opinion. Thanks for letting me state it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
How it's oriented is important in that it defines dev team priorities, but at any given time when I use a device what matters is how it works for my personal use cases.

I can attest that file transfer concept in WP7 is horrendous, and I know for sure that I'll run into problems with it, but 99.9% of the files I need to open on the go I get via email. So what would I prefer - a phone that works as a thumb drive or a phone that gets attachments 100% of the time? Call me weird, but for me it's the latter.

Also, since I drive a lot, listen to lots of music that changes every week or two, and also travel a lot, listening to music on the plane, at the airports, trains etc., a music player is incredibly important. I also like decent sound (although I'm not an audiophile), so that's important as well.

Now, who am I - a business user or a consumer? Both, I guess. And WP7 turns out to work fairly well for me. Apart from missing copy/paste of course, which happened to be a PITA twice already.

My 3 media players on PC? What are you talking about?

I don't watch videos on my phone often. I did it when I had a WM Asus 750 which played everything though, so yeah, I wouldn't mind having an easy way to do it, just in case. Music is far more important for me though, and this is where Android isn't anywhere close to WP7 no matter how much you customize it.

So yeah, I have to sacrifice ease of watching videos in order to get decent sound. I wouldn't sacrifice sound for the sake of videos. See what I'm trying to say?

I'll have to try transfering .avi files to the phone, I haven't done it yet. I see .avis added to Collection in Zune (although according to documentation it shouldn't happen), and can watch them there. I can drag and drop them to the phone in Zune, but frankly have no clue what it will do with them and how much time it'll take. Technically, Xvid/DivX movies shouldn't be reencoded, just remuxed at worst, since MPEG4 Part 2 ASP is supported natively by WP7. I'll try it when I get back home. I know some people reported that everything gets reencoded including music, but there's a checkbox there that can be removed to turn it off so that only unsupported files will be reencoded.

Also, using Zune for this stuff is much easier than iTunes. Especially with wireless syncing which happens unattended. You drag and drop stuff to the phone icon, and then everything happens at night without you being involved in any way.

Now, would I prefer being able to simply copy files? Yes, certainly. But it's not a deal breaker for sure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
As my daily computer I have a custom built one with much more. The computer my wife uses while I'm at work (I work from home) is the clunker. It may not be the prettiest thing in the world but it functions and does so with minimal lag.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Not being rude but

A. Microsoft has stated it wont be letting manufacturers skin their OS. They can have a "hub" of sorts but no skinning.

B.External SDs work on SOME devices. My Focus now has 40 gigs as does my venue pro.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
Good call!

More BS is coming from z33dev33l, not surprising :rolleyes: what's your next excuse, z33dev33l?
[Windows Phone 7 General] hazard99:
that wasnt rude at all I knew the focus had one I justwasn't sure it was the norm.

Its nice that it will always be fast . I just dont like the style .
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Windows 7 performs terribly on computers build for Windows 98, Me, or even Windows 2000.

Windows Me was released when standard processor speeds for consumer PCs were in teh 5-700 MHz range. They used slow I/O busses, and the RAM was slow as hell to boot. You can't even put 2GB RAM in most of those computers. Everything was slow, not just the processor. You're lucky if you had an AGP 4x slot, but my guess is most of those computers will have PCI slots even for the Graphics card.

It's not even funny, how terrible a machine like that would perform with anything above XP on it.

You can go back to ~2004 and find machines that will run Windows 7 flawlessly. Processors improved tremendously between 2000 and 2005 or so (clock speeds almost quadrupled in that timespan). In 2004 You could get a HyperThreading P4 from HP at 2.8 GHz with DDR400 RAM (2GB Max) and a 7200 Hard Drive in it (and AGP 8x Graphics slot). THAT will run Windows 7 flawlessly. I know so because I have one such machine here that is that old.

But I brought PCs and Laptops back when 98 and Me were the latest OSes and none of those would be able to handle either Vista or Windows 7. Many of those machines' stock hard drives weren't even big enough to hold just the OS on it, Lol. Laptops back then were shipping with 20GB Hard Drives if you paid a premium... The high end Sony Viao that I brought in mid 2004 only shipped with a 40GB hard drive in it, and it was an $1800 notebook... You could get a budget notebook back then from Compaq or something for less than half that (for the sake of comparison)...

Windows XP Lags on a 2.7 GHz Celeron with 512 DDR MB RAM and 7200 RPM Drive (an ~2004-era configuration). You're not running Windows 7 on a machine that old with "minimal Lag." But you're free to believe what you want... and even repeat it to us ad nauseum...

1GHz processors in 2000-2001 were for high end workstation/business-class machines and gaming rigs...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I like your arguments but Apple charges other IOS users for the upgrades and provides them free for the iPhone. See they make money that's why it makes sense for them to provide the updates. Microsoft plan doesn't include making money, its a failure. It wont work. All new major features will be held for another OS.

WP7 is nothing like XBOX, two different markets, two different devices.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I believe the POS was bought in 03 with ME on it, I just upgraded it to windows 7 because I didnt have an XP disk. I do know it was a higher end computer back then but by todays standards its complete junk but it does run well enough to feed her facebook habit so all is well in her world. The fact that I can run that on a now 8 year old machine though is quite a testament to logevity of windows products.