yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
No. These are the things people want.

And majority is not always the only point here. That is why computer can do much more than average user can do. Devices are not only about "everybody", ****! Are you a mass product? Maybe you're a robot? Do you have your own opinion? Or you're unique?

I tell you more. MOST of people don't give a **** about the camera, but it's built in into the device. Huge amount of users make few photos at the beginning. Than they forget it.

Your reasoning is clueless. Or rather your philosophy is harmful.

Because ALL of these features were implemented in Android, THE MOST successful and consumer oriented OS on the planet. Why? Because nobody wanted this, just one guy like me?

Please wake up, you're a bit hilarious.

P.S. I am sorry, but if you really think that a device with inbuilt Office support with Word and OneNote doesn't need C & P, I.... have no words to describe your logic.

Steve Ballmer must be a complete idiot than. He wants to waiste time and money to implement a feature nobody needs. What an asshole.

I think MS should stop any upgrades actually. WP7 is ready and perfect.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
If basics were truly important, no one would have bought the first iphone.

Missing 3G

Missing MMS

Inability to send text messages to multiple recipients at once

No multi tasking

No copy paste

Gimped bluetooth

No file browser

AND many many more. These were all things that were available on existing phones, and many older phones from years ago.

Apple has shown that consumers do not care about such things. They care about the user experience. The UI and UX of WP7 is VERY good.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
You are absolutely right. That was the truth about 2007 or 2006, the first iPhone launch date. People had no expectations.

But if you didn't notice, we have 2011, you know. Times have changed.

So that is why the current iPhone, to be competitive and keep up, has ALL of those missing features, plus tons of profi sofware, including office, music making and other advanced features and functionalities.

So that's how it is now. Maybe it's hard to understand, but it's true.

And that is why the "300 000 apps on market" argument is important too.

I mean nobody needs 300 000 apps to write sms, right? They definitely want more.

So, you know, the market is not fresh but probably about 20 or 30 times more saturated now with smartphones and features. Nobody "waits" for WP7 to keep up, besides the dedicated groups of MS fans :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
BS, that was 2007, and Apple released a ton of updates.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
I don't see the difference. When iPhone was launched, all other phones had very basic and advanced functionality that the iPhone was missing.

When WP7 was launched, all other phone had very basic and advanced functionality that WP7 was missing.

If you are going to give Apple 3 or 4 years of updates so that it could catch up with phones from era when it was launched, why aren't you prepared to do so for WP7?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Because Microsoft released their first smartphone in 2001.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
And it did everything the iPhone did and more, but no one cared about it when the iPhone was released with its missing functionality.

Just like most users won't care about the missing functionality on WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vbetts:
Obviously not, people bought WP7 and still buy it.

Majority is what the manufactures and developers look at.

I didn't say anything about the camera?

Again, Android and WP7 is a different userbase. That's like comparing apples to oranges.

Trust me, I'm fully awake.

How many people use Word or OneNote to write down a full page on a phone? Instead of insulting me, you might want to try using better arguments.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth, I never said WP7 is perfect the way it is. But nobody can deny that it does work, something I can't say for every Android phone out there after having 2 Samsung phones.

WP7 is made to be a simple and quick OS, not an OS that's developer oriented. It does what it needs to do with no problems. It's fine if you want C/P, but again your wants isn't what everybody else wants, and believe it or not there are people who are happy with WP7 and aren't MS fans.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
IPhone set a new standard, fact. Apple single handedly pawned Microsoft in 2007, and still is if Microsoft is competing with a device from 2007.

Times have changed, and a lot of people care.

Most users don't care? Did you do a study?
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
I call B.S. - I missed the functionality of certain things in the first iPhone, coming from a Palm Treo 680. But I assure you, the reason people accepted the iPhone without those features was because everyone was desperate for a quality phone that worked and worked well. The absolute only other smartphones were pure crap compared to the iPhone. Always dealing with freezes, crappy UIs, low-tech resistive displays and a whole host of annoyances we all had to suffer. When the first iPhone came out, it was like a massive relief, to finally have a reliable smartphone.

THAT is why the first iPhones were so successful and not because people didn't care about the functionality. If people don't care about all the current functionality, it would not be included into today's iPhones or other phones. There can be no excuse, at all, why MS has left out the common features so prevalent today. Otherwise we all could simply find a first-gen iPhone and be completely content.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
By setting the standard you mean missing even the most basic features that even the dumb Symbian phones of then had.

Hell, they've only now been able to change the background pic and add folders.

I am not satin iPhone isn't good or that WP7 is perfect, but the fact is both came out lacking basic functionality that most tech heads were expecting from a smartphone. Apple showed us that not everyone is a tech head just like Nintendo showed us not everyone is a hardcore gamer.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Again 2010-11 vs 2007.
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
Well, no.

You hit the head on the nail with your post to be honest - people wanted the UX (user experience) the iPhone provided. No other phone on the market provided the same kind of UX at the time. And this is where we can easily draw a parallel to WP7; No other phone on the market provides the same UX as WP7 today and this is what will drive sales.

So what if it doesn't multitask. Even after the iPhone got multitasking most people fail to understand it and happily say "I don't need that". Obviously, multitasking does bring a lot of value-add to the product, so I'm hoping we will see this sooner rather than later, but the fact of the matter is that WP7 brings the basics to the table. What is it actually missing, apart from Copy'n'Paste which is confirmed in the first update? Sure, I would love to see more functionality, but it does what it's supposed to. It does what consumers expect. It does it really, really well. All the extras offered on other platforms at the moment are just that, extras; "Nice to have, but come to think of it I really can live without it as long as I have this excellent UX instead.".

When die hard Apple fans go out of their way to purchase a WP7 device (I've seen this happen on several occasions now) they [MS] have certainly got something right with the OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I don't want to insult you but I don't believe you. At all. Your reasoning is plain wrong without an argument confirming this. INCLUDING poor sales number.

I don't because 2 most successful operating systems, wait, actually 3 of them,

so: Android, iOS, Symbian (random order) were either HAVING all of the functions ibuilt or were GLORIOUSLY ADDING them later. Android still improves all of the features, both basic and advanced ones. Constantly. Not because people don't care or because they have too much money and spare time. They do it because users WANT them and they actually know what users want. Apple was adding everything with a big bang! Why??!! Because PEOPLE NEED it.

So now you tell me that this 4th OS exists on a different standard, having currently marginal market impact, and a loong way before any real success?

That is a real bull****. I think discussing on this level is a waste of time.

I keep my fingers crossed for WP7 but I assume they don't think your way,

otherwise they will be lost in a year time. Seriously.

BTW, do you know why - among other reasons - iPhone was so successful?

Because Apple did not think in a "mass" way!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
The MAIN reason iPhone succeeded was because Apple thought in the "mass" way. They realized that the main market didn't really care about most features. They cared about the UX. Just like Nintendo realized not everyone was a hardcore gamer and thus kicked Xbox and ps3s ass with the Wii.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
No, not at all. Apple has always targeted a niche market. Everyone else just seems to like it.

WP7 however seems to be lost.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Pretty much this... WP7 is trying to do the same thing but when you run the same thing by the same group of people some people are going to call BS (whether or not its actually there.) I love WP7 it is everything I need in a phone. Do I think its lacking a few basic features that will come in updates? Of course. Do I think the lack of features makes it lesser than, say, android? Hell no...I'll take a fluid UI and a good media player with netflix over copy and paste and multi-tasking any day. The only time WP7 annoys me is when im playing fruit ninja and I slide clear off the keyboard and hit the search button...
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
i agree. Usuing android on similarly specced or even better specced devices isn't very pleasurable. For all its features, scrolling and panning is still too choppy and you have that constant feeling that somthing is not quite right. That screen isn't responding quite fast enough. Even web growing on android sucks even though its much more standard compliant just becuse of choppy scrolling and panning.

Everyone goes on about the lacking features but ignore the stuff wp7 excels at. The keyboard for example easily matches the iPhone. The suggestions and autocorrection is by miles better than the iPhone. Androids music player sucks compared to Zune. The web browsing experience sucks on android even though page loading and rendering is better. Notifications are also better than iPhone

These core experience is worth much more than copy paste, which is coming anyway.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
Oh and the fruit ninja issue has nothing to do with wp7 to be honest. Its the manufacturers fault for going with the capacitive buttons which is stupid really.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tfouto:
another stupid thread...
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
There's no doubt about it, WP7 is sweet beyond comparison. Just pure luxury in a smartphone. But that alone won't keep it going. Most people who adopted WP7 probably weren't aware of the lacking features and wouldn't imagine a modern day smartphone lacking such common features. I know my jaw hit the floor when I saw it didn't have voice nav. I almost returned it. But people here kept saying to hang on till the first of the year. Coming updates would resolve it. I had those coming updates in mind when I decided to keep my HD7.

I doubt the majority of "non-techies" will be so inclined to "hang on" to their WP7 devices when they see they are so lacking of features.
[Windows Phone 7 General] canadariot2312:
In other news, most of the world still uses dumbphones or feature phones. The smaller platforms look a whole lot more interesting than the bigger ones in my opinion.

When the iPhone was released, it was competing against feature phones and touchscreens were not really popular. Of course, it was a brilliant phone for it's time because of the UI.

I don't think that it is too late for Microsoft. If the 360 can outsell the Wii than I am sure that a couple updates will bring WP7 to a more positive light.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Nope. They were thinking against any existing trend around 2007.

However were able to succeed with wise activity following launch.

After that and Android, everything is different.

But you really don't get it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
gotta say... androids looking more and more like a haphazardly pieced together iphone...
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
Well this thread just goes to show that wp7 isn't for everyone just like how android or IOS isn't for everyone. From what I have read the majority are perfectly happy with wp7. it might lack some features but it makes up in others like a better music client than android, better notifications than IOS. Facebook integration to pull the latest status updates as well as including photos from the cloud in the pictures hub. Etc...
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Oh yes. One of the main reasons I sold my X10 and was rejecting jumping into HTC bandwagon. I just couldn't stand those graphics. Eyekillers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
In retrospect though I enjoyed android while I had it it seemed more a kids OS... Yeah you can mod but most of the modding is getting up to what other phones already have. I think WM 6.5 may have been the best OS as a whole but for a media and user friendly experience WP7 is all I need... I mean iphones not bad but who wants to have one phone to choose from with a tiny screen and no options except memory...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I haven't been reading the same stuff then. As a lot users just like the UI, and that's it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You mean besides the millions of people who own one? A kids OS, what joke.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
WM could be the best.

Android - you may not like the UI, but it's everything but kids OS.

iPhone - yes. Android is really sophisticated right now, nothing of a kids toy.
[Windows Phone 7 General] makomek:
WP7 is made by the same crew that made Windows vista,they need to fire that dumb crew .They need to find a new group international like Russian etc...and get WP8 out quick. It take 2 yrs to make WP7 now it take 1 more year for a minor update up in Seattle.
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
+1

I actually thought the iPhone was a good idea. I liked the fact it "just works" and was responsive to my every touch. The only gripe I really had was the hardware, I didn't like it.

Which is why WP7 is best compared to iOS. It checks all the same boxes but with [some] hardware variety.

No-one said a kids toy, they said a kids OS. There is a huge difference between the two. In any case, I'm inclined to agree with z33dev33l - Android is for the "kids", i.e. those who have the urge to modify, root and hack their phones. Personally I've outgrown this, I just can't be arsed to install a homebrew ROM the first thing I do just to get it to run smoothly or work properly. I definitely can't be arsed to re-do this every couple weeks. The same as I no longer care to wax my car every weekend - I get other people to do it, or how I no longer upgrade my computers every chance I get - now I upgrade them when they need upgrading, not because there's a new super-duper-processor or graphics card just released.

Just gimme a phone that has a hardware formfactor I like as well as software that just works - oh wait, Samsung and Microsoft did with the Omnia 7.

I can't believe you people are still comparing Android to iOS and WP7 though. It's not an equal comparison, it's like apples and bananas, completely different leagues. Android == Windows Mobile. iOS == Windows Phone. If you like Android you will more than likely not like iOS and vice versa. That's not to say Android is a bad OS though, it isn't ... as such ... it's just different, for a different target audience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Different target audience is one thing, and it's more or less a "taste", and set of obvious features is a different thing.

We talk about a second aspect here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
So what is the unlocker that these forums is raving about on WP7? Isn't that the same as rooting?

You're not making sense.
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
And once again, a few thousand users on some tech website is not the same thing as consumers at large.

I've ran into a few distant friends (i.e. not the usual crowd which are all into gadget pr0n) lately that's recently purchased droid devices and what sticks out at me is their complaints about it out of the box. So I show them my WP7 and they're like "Wow, what is that? Where can I get one? Why didn't I get one". Now, since they're stuck on a contract I tell'em to hit up XDA and get a cooked ROM which will sort out the OOB issues they have, most everyone then says "No thanks, if anyone can brick a phone it's me".

Obviously, I also highlight the shortcomings of the WP7 OS, such as no multitasking (so you can't GPS track while reading email/text or making a call etc), no copy'n'paste (although, it's hit and miss whether you can do this for anything useful in Android either), the fact Zune doesn't officially work locally (of course, they have no idea what this is as Android doesn't have anything like it), XBL doesn't work locally etc etc - and their reply is still "I want one!". Asking why they didn't just get an iPhone answers ranged from the "I can't afford one" thru "I don't like the hardware" to "everyone has one" which shows that most of them did consider it.

What I'm getting at is this, the forumites that enjoy tinkering with their phones should get Android - unless they have half a brain and are able to do some homebrew code for WP7. The ones that have passed this stage and just wants a phone that "just" works should get WP7 or iPhone. Generally it's that simple.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
ok, so you won't be applying the whenever-its-released wp7.x update ?

and you don't buy new albums from your favorite bands ?

or gps maps ? (yes, i know gps in the original sense is dead now thanks to google and phones)

if the majority of wp7 users follow your opinion, then wp7 is indeed dead. whatever handsets were sold will be the last of them once saturation user base is accomplished. congrats microsoft, you've built the perfect hammer to nail the coffin shut !
[Windows Phone 7 General] emigrating:
Of course I will - that is not half as intrusive as flashing a new ROM every other week or ****ing about with settings to get a smooth experience.

Actually, no. I haven't purchased music for years. I have a Sonos system at home and all the music I could ever want thru Spotify, Last.fm, iHeartRadio etc.

I already have a full GPS app on my WP7 devices - Navigon. Sure, it's not as good as the iPhone counterpart, but it's a start and it does route correctly, which after all is what's important. For quick lookups I use Bing maps, which I agree is nowhere near as good as Google maps, but it does the job and has so far provided details on all the local businesses I've needed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Exactly consumers at large don't flash custom Roms, and don't even know what the hell rooting is. So stop saying users have to on Android. Because apparently you HAVE to unlock your phone to put custom ringtones on it. That is beyond ludicrous.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
How come you have Navigon software on WP7 if they don't produce it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yeah they keep saying that average user has no clue about tech stuff,

But than Android is for "techies".

The biggest selling platform.

Lies.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
There's a way to install Navigon which is supplied with German T-Mobile phones on unlocked devices and add maps from Navigon iPhone app.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
i was really trying to get across the point that updating is a good thing. i expected you to mention zune pass for music, and that you would wait until all the bugs were sorted in the update of wp7.x before flashing. fair enough :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Purple11:
Closing the thread will not shut my voice.. I am disgusted at this new WP7 which is a actually a step BACKWARD from WM 6.5 and NOT FORWARD. I was loyal customer of WM and waited for two long years for this update.

It seems more like a downgrade rather than any update from WM6.5 to WP7.

Inferior about what??
[Windows Phone 7 General] iamjonso:
I believe there's also some fans of wp7 that are holding off on getting a wp7 device NOT because of lack of some features found on other platforms, but because of the current unappealing hardware. This OS definitely needs sexier high-end harware to match the user experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
The os is already very fast. Hardware doesn't mean a thing unless the software is optimized for it. Just look at how choppy android still is even on dual core phones.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
It still amazes me that people think WP7 was supposed to be an upgrade from WM6.5. I enjoyed 6.5 but as many have said about both android and WM I didnt like modding my phone for hours before it was functional. Also android is the highest selling mobile r platform because the stupid people think of it as a cheap alternative to the iphone that will work on any network.I mean hell go on any mobile website and look at the free phones. Your choices are basically android which everyone knows tech wiz or not or something like a cheap samsung OS that looks hastily thrown together and hardly works.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, speed isn't the only characteristic of hardware, apart from the fact that you need sone serious power to run modern games. Display quality, battery life, weight, thinness, design - all these things count, and current WP7 hardware isn't exactly spectacular, although good.

Also, if you have used WM or Android it's just difficult to imagine how ab OS may run on the same hardware. So people will want dual core processors no matter whether they are really needed or not.

Oh, and of course there's the issue of storage. Current 8GB average is a joke. I personally would prefer a phone with 64GB to a phone with two or even four cores. Especially when were talking about a phone with Zune Pass.
[Windows Phone 7 General] digger1985:
I don't agree. Everyone classified the first iPhone as a smartphone even though it lacked the most basic features that the existing dumbphones had. Wp7 is definitely a smartphone os.
[Windows Phone 7 General] snipersquad8:
now heres what i dont get. is this a friendly discussion or a heated argument? either way, heres my 2 cents: i played with WinMo, iOS, and Android, and by far, WinMo is the best one in my opinion. Granted, i'd love to play with WP7, but i simply can't afford to buy one at the moment, and flashing it onto my HD2 just isn't an option (as it doesn't give the same experience as buying a new phone would). So far, I've determined this much-

iOS- good for people who aren't really into modding and don't mind spending more for less (kids, older folks, etc.)

WinMo- perfect for businessmen and people who don't mind coding/flashing cooked ROMS (just about everyone on XDA)

Android- not really made for businessmen, but can be used as such and also for most of the WinMo population (not to mention people who prefer Linux)

WP7- people who like to be at the bleeding edge of technology (again, not the majority of people, but anyone who just has to taste whats to come)

i don't know if i'm right or wrong, but it's my opinion. feel free to correct me (but please, don't spew hate if it isn't needed)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
It amazes you because you don't get simple facts.

But it is easy.

Opposed to iPhone and Android which are short on the market and built their customer base from scratch,

WinMo was on the market FOR 10 YEARS, creating big userbase of people who actually know very well what their want.

So now these users naturally look at MS and their new OS as NEXT STEP.

What would you tell them? **** you?