yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Venue Pro General] tai4de2:
It means that the phone has some small amount of built-in flash storage with the vast bulk of it provided by the SD card.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
you and I aren't seeing eye to eye here. With the storage card in, there is no way to tell how much ram is really on this device because its pooled. Without the storage card I'm, the only memory available is what is provided by the device. Right?

There has been a debate about 256or 512. With mo storage card installed we should only be talking about onboard stuff. Without the storage involved, in a newly hard reset device, my memory reading is 480. There is storage card to pool, no apps other than stock installed. I would think this would indicate a 512 device, unless you are telling me there are other pieces of memory running around here. In which case I will surrender and not buy another smartphone of any kind.
[Venue Pro General] NeverSummer07:
Has anyone upgrade the stock 8GB or 16GB SD after the NoDo update? I'm thinking about replacing the 8GB with my Sandisk 32GB Class 2.
[Venue Pro General] kartbart:
I upgraded from Stock (SanDisk 8 GB class 4) to SanDisk 32 GB class 4 after the NoDo update and have had no issues - other than the write speed dropping from 3 MB/s to 0.64 MB/s. Don't know if that is because the card is really not SanDisk or other reason.
[Venue Pro General] slight22:
why not class 10?
[Venue Pro General] missionsparta:
tWell, in my opinion or belief it is a combination of two things:

1) The operating system is not set up to handle class 10 cards yet (not quit sure how this matters but I have heard of different phones not being able to handle faster cards - sounds backwards to me, but people a lot smarter than me have told me this).

2) The only cards that have been more on the side of having consistent success with WinMo 7 are SanDisk Microsd cards, and to my knowledge they don't make those cards in a class higher than 4.

I do have a question for those that have swapped the cards out.

I am hearing that people using the class 2 sandisk cards are having a higher success rate than those that used the class 4. The only real concern I have, is that everyone I know that has ever used a class 2 card on an HD video camera has found that the card would not write the video fast enough to keep up with what the camera was capturing. Have any of you that have swapped in a SanDisk Class 2 card tried capturing HD Video since the change? If so, how well did it work (not that this camera was anything above a Fisher Price before).
[Venue Pro General] mikebaz:
uh oh :(

so I decided to risk it tonight, and risk is a good word for it... I seem to have bricked my phone...

I followed the directions as given - hard reset, pulled battery when logo came up, put in new card (16 GB Patriot), and hey, look, it worked - until the first power cycle. Then I got the dreaded "Storage card not working", and it's stuck there. Tried pulling battery and reseating, then reinserting battery, no go. I have tried over a dozen times now with the battery pull, then back up, and it just doesn't seem to want to take it.

I know I'm not supposed to try with no card or another card or the original card at this point. I also know there's no real hardware reset combination that we know of.

And on another fun note, my local backup from the NoDo process appears to have disappeared from the machine. No idea when or how that happened but that's certainly not helping me feel better.

Putting the phone into recovery mode as a result doesn't really get me anywhere - Zune just says "sorry, you don't have a backup".

so, I'm thinking I've bricked it, and I have a very long drive tomorrow to swap the phone if the MS Store in IL will be nice to me. Does anyone have any hope for me?
[Venue Pro General] missionsparta:
Be firm and also let them know how upset you are and point them to links like this. Microsoft decided to go this route and let mickey mouse companies like Dell make phones in partnership with them. At this point, I don't know what else Dell and/or Microsoft expected us to do. We have non-working phones and have had non-working phones for 4 months now. I don't want to hear that the fix is coming in days. Tough crap.... it should have been coming within days of the problems when they were released mid-December. As far as I, and most other 16gb Venue Pro owners are concerned, they have not left us with to many options to get a working phone.

Let us know what happens. Complete BS that the last resort has come to what people are doing with these lemon cards.
[Venue Pro General] kartbart:
What do you mean by you are not supposed to try with "no card"?

I thought the swapping steps are:

1) Hard reset

2) Remove battery when you see DELL logo

3) Remove card.

4) Power up.

5) Hard reset

6) Remove battery when ...

7) Insert new card.

8) Power up ...
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
The message you recieve, the Storage card not working, could occur if the card is not seated firmly. It also has occured for me, with Class 4 or 10 cards. This is why i settled on a Class 2 card...less of these messages.

The device will run iwth NO card. but you have to insure the process is done and allow the device to initialize with no card. I ran my device with no card for a few days, as a test. it runs...no worries. Of course there is a limited amount of space to do anything, very few apps, almost no music, etc.

If, you are in a situation, where this message keeps occuring, try reseating the card. If you have not yet initialized the device with that card, try pulling the card. See if it will initialize.

Restore mode will NOT work unless you have a back up. It's been written here several times by others and a couple of times by me, a back up is created ONLY when an update is done with Zune connected AND Zune is set as the PRIMARY relationship. If you are set as a Guest, then a backup is made, but deleted the next time you connect, or any device for that matter is connected to that copy of Zune. I have tested this MANY times. In addition, the backup, is ONLY good, when all the conditions are met. this means, the SD card must be of the same size as when the backup is made. making a backup, changing cards, and trying to restore will NOT work.

This is how to restore with a backup and change SD cards.

1. Restore back to previous version

2. Follow the change SD card procedure.

3. The above procedure requires a hard reset to complete. so you now have the previous version os with a new card.

4. Now do the NoDo update. A backup is made, again, only with the new card.

5. Now set the device up the way you want.

Notice, this is not a really good backup procedure. It does NOT restore all your old programs and settings, ONLY the OS version. Its the price that is paid to get the OS to a new version with a larger SD card and create a backup of this.

Please remember, the sync relationship with Zune. Must be set to Primary....NOT as Guest. Only in this way will a backup be made.

Backups are store here:

On Vista/W7: C:\Users\[User Name]\app data\local\Microsoft\Windows Phone Update.

The ENTIRE folder is required. the structure looks like this:

[Device ID] a long number sequence.

Inside that folder is:

[Folder] Properties: contains an xml file

[Folder] Restorepoint: Contains a [Folder] with a long id name and a .dat file.

Inside that folder is:

[Folder] with a long ID name and a.dat file

inside that folder is:

[Folder] DATA

inside that folder is:

the backups.
[Venue Pro General] mikebaz:
Thanks for the responses :)

I meant, without doing the reset. In other words, once I initialized the new card, I'm supposed to keep the new card in there, not take it out without going through another hard reset cycle, which I can't do right now. I also am not supposed to put in the old card without a hard reset cycle. (If either of those is wrong, please correct me!)

I have initialized with the new card - it worked until a power cycle, then got in the loop. I can't seem to get out of the loop now. I am going to mess with reseating it some more although I've done that more than a a few times. Because I have initialized with the new card I don't want to try without it or with the old one (as I mentioned above) - but again if that's actually the RIGHT thing to do in some way and I've misunderstood the point please tell me!

Despite having read a lot of things I missed the "Zune will delete the backup on a guest" thing. That's my fault entirely for missing that. I certainly can't get mad at anyone for my missing that! :)

As far as being mad at MS goes over the overall situation, the bottom line is, I'm an adult, I did something I was told not to do, at my own risk, and I screwed up something somehow, although I can't seem to find where.

What I'm trying to figure out now is how to proceed. I really like the form factor, and in general really liked the phone even with the firmware issues. I had one of the Engineering Samples and put up with all of that. At this point, I'm in for a penny, in for a pound on this phone. It's just a matter of what that actually means.
[Venue Pro General] ilyabu:
I think in this case you tried to use a storage card which does not work well wth the phone / OS, and or a card that went "bad". I also had this happen, but managed to recover and now work well with a SanDisk Class 4 32gb card. If you turn off your phone (pull battery), and pull out the storage card, it should boot into the OS. You then can go to Settings and do another hard reset, pull the battery as soon as you see the Dell logo, and then try another card, either your original card or a new one. You won't get your backup back, but at least you should be up and running. If this doesn't work you'll need to RMA, as the phone will need to be flashed with the OS through a different (not end user available) process. Also your current card will be useless unless you have access to a Nokia phone to unlock it.
[Venue Pro General] mikebaz:
Still no go

OK pulled the card, still coming up "Storage card not working". Tried a few boots to be sure.l Of course, there's always the chance that I have now made things worse, since it was initialized at one point.

Know about the Nokia thing, although no idea where I'm going to find someone who owns one ;)

Hmm - have I hijacked this thread? Should I start a new one?
[Venue Pro General] ilyabu:
Some T-Mo stores should have Nokias. There's something really wrong if you pulled the card and it comes up with that message. I think you need to RMA it as it sounds like it needs to be re-flashed with the OS, but of course I' only guessing.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
We all get chances to hijak threads.... :D

So, you're saying, no matter what, you are in a loop. The loop is, Storage card not working. Is that correct? You pull the card, you put it back in, makes no difference, you have the same message?

You've tried, pulling battery and then restarting into PC Connect mode.....power, camera, volume down? This will NOT offer you anything helpful except maybe to break the loop.

What this sounds like to me, is you recieved the message and pulled the card, without a hard reset involved. Hard reset is required for most, if not all, card removals and replacements. If you pull the card at any time, with out a hard reset, you are subject to bricking your device. I personally do not think your device is bricked. It will turn off and on, and go into PC Connect mode. The PC Connect mode is simply a "I'm ready to load something" mode. you just don't have anything to load. I've also heard of people putting the card back in...and pulling battery, over and over again....eventually it just....works.

All of this depends on how you initialized the card too. Hard Reset, pull the card before it boots. Put in new card, reboot, then let it setup. Those are the basic steps.

I'm checking with everyone I know to see if there are any other tricks to break this loop.
[Venue Pro General] mikebaz:
thanks for your patience and help :)

Correct.

I did try this, but it didn't break the loop. It did go into connect mode, but without a backup, it's not helpful :(

I didn't do this until yesterday, when I did do that as per the other post suggesting I try that to see if the device will boot without it. Until then, it was the same card that was in there after a hard reset. It did work that one time showing the storage, so I know I got the basic process right. It just didn't like the card after that first hard boot.

Thanks... if this were 6.x or earlier I could get it out myself - just don't have access to any of the WP7 tools right now :(

As a side update, I called Dell yesterday. I'm waiting on RMA details today (computer problems with registration/ownership transfer yesterday). One of the first things the rep wanted me to do was pull the card and try it, which means I can now legitimately explain the sticker being opened - "she told me to do it". So it may work out that an RMA makes the issue go away, although if I can get it to work without going through that, great :)
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
You know....it might be best to leave it at that. there is not going to be a way around this....without knowing some inside people. looks like you have a legit do over. By chance...did you try putting the original back in ?
[Venue Pro General] frazell:
I don't get it. You knew the card was not user replaceable and it isn't covered under warranty to change it. You change it and fail and now you want Dell to pay for it.

It is people like you that force OEMs to lock crap down. Instead of bearing the risk for your actions you try to push them upstream to them. Why ruin it for honest people?
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
Agreed that it affects honest people. But from a consumer stand point, he has all the right to do it that way. Becos, all companies these days try to avoid accepting the fault in device and put the blame on something else (wrong user action/OS/ carrier,etc). Even if they accept the fault in device, they don't offer solution for long thinking that the consumer will get frustrated, forget and move on. The % of folks taking the legal route or being patient enough for a solution from the mfg'r is so less.

Look what MS did - Initially when Samsung allowed users to change the SD card and it had the wrong effect - MS said they will come with a list of approved SD cards - so far no news on that front. Many have got frustrated and moved on.

If companies try to save cost by giving useless customer service, then the consumer will do his part by being like this.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
I read alot, but I do not recall reading that. What I recall is, the MS spec was NO user available SD slots. I remember reading that Samsung chose to make one available and covered it with tape. I remember reading about cards that would eventually be rated as compatible with WP7. I recall the article did NOT come from MS, but from Sandisk and someone else....Samsung maybe.

If the user configurable SD card slots are against MS design spec, how can it be MS's fault for cards that don't work? I'm just not following the logic?
[Venue Pro General] frazell:
That is my point though... OEMs are quick to blame the user for the problem and refuse to fix it because so many people who "break" their devices and ask for replacements are doing it because they failed to mod it successfully. If the user can't afford to loose the device in a failed modding attempt then they shouldn't be modding the device in a way that is outside of their warranty. It isn't complicated.

The round trip logic of "maybe they ripped someone else off so I should rip them off to enrich myself" doesn't make sense. If we didn't have users fraudulently sending broken devices to OEMs then consumers wouldn't be getting told their repair isn't warranted because they broke it.

The frauds that do this is why the mod community has such a hard time. OEMs try to find ways to make it harder so they can lower the cost of fixing problems they didn't create. It also makes the mod community get a nasty rap with OEMs so they don't ever try to engage it in any way.
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
It was ATT who said they are working with MS to come with list of Certified Cards. Of course, MS won't say it in the open as it will invite trouble. The whole point of my post was to give an example of card fiasco where the customer is frustrated due to companies pointing fingers at each other. If its not in the spec, its the responsibility of MS to have stringent controls to ensure it didn't happen. But due to MS negligence, Samsung was able to let the user change the cards and so did ATT for a while.
[Venue Pro General] missionsparta:
It is companies like Dell that force consumers to FIX THEIR CRAP THEMSELVES. Instead of Dell bearing their responsibility to give us a working unit, they hope we break our warranty with the only known fix right now (and this is after 5 months!) Why ruin it for honest consumers?

They took our money and have stuck most of us 16 GB owners with unusable lemons. So we should just keep paying our monthly bills on top of what we payed for the phones and just hope we don't miss an important call when the phone crashes 12 times a day? Get out of here. They made this mess. The responsible thing for Dell to do here, is not void anyone's warranties that are forced to repair their units ON THEIR OWN AND WITH THEIR OWN MONEY USED TO BUY ANOTHER SD CARD. This is beyond ridiculous that anyone would fault this guy for trying to get his phone to work. Even more ridiculous, is that Dell knows these things are lemons and keeps shipping them.
[Venue Pro General] frazell:
I'm not attempting to make excuses for Dell. But I also don't agree with your point on defrauding them either.

I purchased my DVP in Feb. 2011 and shortly after placing my order I read this forum and followed the twitter hashtag. Both are full of crash stories. I looked at the return policy and noted that if my device acted in the same manner it would be returned. From what most of the chronic crash users are experiencing (5x a day, etc.) I don't understand why they failed to do this.

But that is irrelevant. If you feel Dell sold you a non-working device and continues to send you broken devices then you could easily make a case to sue them in small claims court for failing to fulfill their warranty obligations. That would get you back the money you spent and make you whole. We have a legal system for this reason.

Let the courts do their job. It isn't ours to defraud anyone in some vain attempt at "making it right."

In terms of paying your cell bill that isn't paid for your device. You are paying for the service...

If you decide to resort to a custom mod instead of using legal recourse to get your issue resolved and you break the device that is your fault, not Dell's.
[Venue Pro General] missionsparta:
In my other posts, I make reference to the fact that I am using the legal system to pursue a solution. Let me tell you how well this works. IT DOESN'T. Im not going into it all, because it would require me to type another 10000 word post.

But the irony here, is that you are wording about fraud and the hole problem is that Dell is hiding behind fraud.

They know that there is a problem and has know there is a problem for sometime, yet, denied it for almost 4 months before suggesting there may be an issue -- FRAUD.

There is no way these problems were not discovered in the simplest of beta testing, yet they still started producing them with this massive defect -- FRAUD.

Once they were called out by numerous tech sites, and even eventually admitted to the issue, they are still shipping the defective units out as fully working units, knowing full well that almost every 16 gb unit shipped is defective -- FRAUD.

I could go on and on -- but if you have made as many phone calls as some of us and delt with all the different avenues, you would know that Dell has known about this since day one and just has changed their stories 50 different times, depending on who you get on the phone and how high up you get. They were hoping that they could take our money, ship out these defective devices and just ignore the situation and hope people like you would get on those that have been ROBBED by Dell, and this would just disappear like other defective devices when the new ones come out.

Right now, the situation is they have taken our money and knowingly been sending out LEMONS for the past 5 months. THEY ESSENTIALLY COMMITTED FRAUD BY PRESENTING THESE UNITS AS FULLY WORKING.

They either needed to tell people they will honor their warranties and allow them this simple fix, and eat it when a small amount of us have a problem or they can issue a MASSIVE RECALL.

You are pointing the finger at the wrong people.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
Oh, ok, I get it. You read between the lines and discovered the whole truth. Now you are bringing it to us, Free of Charge.

Thank you for all you've done.
[Venue Pro General] mikebaz:
wow, well, that seemed to suddenly set off a set of posts in a very short time.

As I said before, if I have to get another phone, I will. I accepted that risk when I first started this process. It would not bother me at all if when I called Dell, they said, "Sorry, you voided the warranty, buy another phone." I would say thanks anyway, and buy another one. I already said I accepted that possibility, even telling friends I was probably going to have to do that, although of course if I could get it working, that's better. I never said anything about a lemon, or about "I deserve to screw over Dell because they sold me crappy hardware." On the contrary, I've defended them over the whole engineering sample fiasco while coworkers were mocking me with their Samsungs.

But, that's not what happened. I called them, explained the situation, and they said, "pull the card out and reboot the phone, see if that fixes it". That's what I meant by being off the hook - clearly, they didn't care. However, they can't say to me, "oh, when you explained it, we didn't realize the sticker would be opened," because following their instructions required that.

At that point, I had two options. I could have said, "I don't think that's a good idea. I know you're a support person, and you're doing your job, but I know more than you do, and I won't do it." Or, I could have said, "okay, I'll do what you're telling me to do." I did the latter.

The only reason I called at all was because another poster had suggested that it might be an RMA situation. The thought hadn't occured to me, but it seemed like if I called and asked, and they said okay, then that's their choice to accept it.

Now, if you believe that it's fraud to tell them what happened and what is happening, and they tell me to do something, and I do it, and they say, "OK, we'll send you a phone...", well, not sure what to say to that. And if you believe that somehow "ruins it for honest consumers", well, not sure where that comes from. If I called them up and said, "hi, my phone just broke, I did nothing to it, really", then that would be different. Not unusual - people do that all the time - but it doesn't really apply in this case.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
Mike, I agree with you man. You did state upfront about knowingly violating the warranty. If you pay, you pay. They offered you a way out. Take it. Class action lawsuits and disappointments aside, take what they give. I've had 3 phones now, paid for 2...the 2 I should have paid for. Its not about who you cheat. If Dell is cheating us, it doesn't mean its right for us to cheat back. It means I take my money elsewhere, next time. Just my opinion ... Good luck.
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
Coincidence?

WP7 certified cards on Sale in ATT Stores - 8GB for the moment.

http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7-certified-memory-cards-start-showing-up-in-att-stores/
[Venue Pro General] NeverSummer07:
I upgraded my 8GB to a Class 2 Sandisk 32GB. Is running smoothly without any issues for three days.
[Venue Pro General] mikebaz:
If I could ask a possibly stupid question, how much data is on your phone? There have been some reports of people with the 32 GB cards not having trouble until they put enough data on to trigger the problem, if I understand correctly.