yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Miami_Son:
All well and good except you ignored the fact that it was Samsung, not the carriers, that made the promise to upgrade these phones to Froyo. On that basis alone they should not be charging anyone for it.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] fastcx:
Charging carriers or not, it's what OP said, up until now, I would still take what he/she said as rumor.

The rest of the world is using galaxy s gt-i9000 on 2.2 for god sake! How can you justify the clause "charging for update" on all the other small carriers around the world(since you would think USA is the top of the world)? Doesn't stack up, does he meant the rest of the world are wealthier? Or just Samsung decided to ONLY charge US carrier? With this in mind, US carriers are hidding actual reason other than small issue like paying fees since they charge you guys every feature they throw in(which not the way other carriers do in the rest of the world). Don't you agrees that these 4 major carrier is greedy way over their head? Peak profit while small fee they aren't willing to pay?

I agrees with a case brought up by a poster before me, he mentioned there is a possibility of carriers signed contract with Samsung not to involve in updates on devices distributed by these 4 carriers because they wants to keep exclusivity from each other carriers in US, you know what i mean? Those bloat wares put in? Don't you feel it's like now, customer are furiously waiting for update, but carriers not willing to update samsung phone because they wants to push motorola(which is company based in US), so they just make things look ugly on samsung part? Usual antitrust case can be behind this as well..who knows? But I won't believe it is totally about fee..

Nothing comes free, even your custom roms are developed by developers that willing to accept donation if you appreciate their work, what makes developers at Samsung different?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] emuneee:
LOL, simplification much? Of the top of my head, some things that could possible go on moving to Android 2.2

-rebasing to the upgraded kernel source (2.6.29.X -> 2.6.32) and ensuring low level driver support & compatibility

-rebasing to the Android 2.2 source code

-reskinning/reapplying TouchWiz

-model specific development for each US Galaxy S model

-testing

It's not nearly as easy as most people think or XDA developers would have been able to bring Android 2.2 to the SGS without the need for Samsung's leaked ROMs.

I'm interested in how much money we are talking about as well. I hope the carriers aren't refusing over a trivial amount assuming this rumor is true. lol
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] TechMuffin:
Interesting

I never knew this. I've been bugging Samsung all week trying to get an answer out of them. Hopefully I'll get some Froyo on the upcoming Sprint event.

_________________________________

Device: Samsung Epic 4G

Carrier: Sprint

Version: Android 2.1 Eclair
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Gr8Danes:
Wow, reading this, if Samsung and the carriers don't come to an agreement by the time my contract is up again later this year, I can guarantee that this will be my LAST Samsung phone. That is a shame, as I love the phone itself (minus the GPS).

The updates to me (and many others) are an essential. I can not say that I would ever venture from Android, but I can say it would be to a phone where there is a greater likeliness of being supported in the future by BOTH the carrier and the phone maker. :(
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lqaddict:
Did you miss the part about the accessories available on US market through Samsungmobile USA for our phones that require 2.2 to work correctly?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] WMCollins:
It's one or both of them, the carriers or the manufacturers. I am limited to the two GSM carriers in the US, AT&T and T-Mobile. So my next smartphone is going to be T-Mobile's MyTouch4g by HTC, AT&T's Motorola Atrix, or AT&T's Samsung Infuse. Before this discussion, I had decided to wait for the Infuse. BUT now, the MyTouch4g and Atrix has the edge. Thanks for opening my eyes.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] DaWeav:
I have purchased a Samsung product, but I have an 'Instinct' that I will never purchase another Samsung mobile device ever again.

As a Sprint customer who bought into the Samsung Instinct iPhone killer campaign a few years ago, I will never purchase anything from Samsung even if Samsung were to deliver the best thing since sliced bread.

This post (true or not) doesn't surprise me because I have already learned my Samsung lesson since my Samsung Instinct ordeal taught me one thing about Samsung, they do not know how to support me as a customer.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ajbk4life1:
why does the WORST PHONE MANUFACTURER HAVE THE BEST PROCESSOR. Qualcomm needs to make their dual core processor better than samsunngs.

and does this secret apply to nexus s ?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] modmyphone:
Probably not since the Nexus phones are Google flagship phones and receive updates as Google see's fit, not Samsung or the carrier.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ajbk4life1:
so isnt the nesxus s being made by samsung a benefit for vibrant users since its the same thing just one has 2.3 and one has 2.1. isnt it easier to port ?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] 10ee:
Hmmm,

So let me get this straight without necessarily directly quoting the OP:

A contract is written between carriers and phone manufacturers stipulating what is maintenance, feature, or critical release, and Samsung wants money from carriers for some of these. And this wasn't agreed upon from the start, ie. with the initial deal?

So what stipulates maintenance, bug or critical? Wouldn't this be drawn up an spelled out 100% iron clad between the two, in order to avoid bickering, finger-pointing and other endeavours that only mean the customer will lose?

I don't get it. While I realize everyone should get paid, I know that no one paid extra for Touchwiz to be installed on their Galaxies or for AT&T bloatware for being installed. We all would agree, after spending time here, that an AOSP image would have been best, and if there is software to be sold on top of that (ie. Touchwiz as an example only) we could go to Samsung and get that, or AT&T, or T-Mobile, and get their custom stuff.

I find the whole thing smells rotten fishy to me.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lqaddict:
No, quite a few hardware differences make it difficult.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ajbk4life1:
oh ok thank you for clarifying.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] z3r0d3vil:
Thanks for the info
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] iRico:
US carriers wanted a different variant of the galaxy s they got it.. Samsung probably had to invest more time and money to build it and probably have to spend more time and money to develop the firmware for each carrier. The international i9000 got 2.2 a while ago and so did the i9000's on the UK carriers if this is true you cant blame Samsung they are a business so they need to make money :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] JimJam707:
A better answer.

Go on twitter and search for #NeverAgain.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nemesishaven:
Ugh.

All this demonstrates to me is that the way we purchase mobile phones is fundamentally broken. I bought a smartphone running Google's operating system, manufactured by Samsung (with their customizations), from AT&T (with their 'customizations' *cough bloat cough*). Now, I want an upgraded operating system, and I don't know who to blame for the fact that it's unavailable. If I could just buy the phone from the manufacturer, like I did with my laptop, I'd at least know who to complain to and be effective.

Well, actually, I bought my phone unlocked from a reseller. I would have bought the Nexus 1 if Google had still been selling it when I had the money for a new phone. My next phone will most likely be whatever the current Nexus is--regardless of its hardware.

Now, that being said--I've rooted my Captivate and I'm rocking an amazing ROM based off of an i9000 2.2.1 build. I love my S-AMOLED screen, CPU, and 2GB internal storage + 16GB internal SD + 16GB external SD. My GPS is not stellar. So do I hate Samsung? Nope.

I do hate the system--but sorry guys, it's unlikely to change anytime soon. Support google's nexus program and lobby for direct-purchase alternatives, but don't hold your breath that we'll be free of this crap.

I saw a chart recently about which manufacturers have the best track record for updating (to 2.2 in this case). Samsung ranked 3rd.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kevinbear:
From my understanding, the feature-update part of it that is holding it back has to do with Samsung's own software updates for Froyo (what is it called, TouchWiz?) The Intercept (that came out slightly before the Epic for Sprint) got updated to Froyo faster because it is stock AOSP for the most part, no new interface.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Miami_Son:
Like I said in another thread, it was Samsung, not the carriers, that promised the update to Froyo for the Galaxy S line. On that basis, they need to follow through and do it and forget about who should or shouldn't pay for it. Suck it up and be true to your word or this is the equivalent of false and misleading business practices and should be actionable in a court of law.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Preee:
9 pages

Well i have read all 9 pages , every one takes this as "Gospel" .If the source was real, surely there is a document of some sort.Anyone one could make a forum name and write a story.

One person gave a reply from Samsung stating they are still working on it.It may be the different types of phones , it may be the operators bloatware.

who really knows , not me but being from the UK i have 2.2.1 Froyo through Kies some of the operators here are very slow to release 2.2 Froyo as well as they ram Froyo with thier rubbish bloatware.

BTW i work for God and he is not sending any snow next Christmas because not enough people played in it this year ! Fact ! ;)

It may be true and it may not be true But don't shoot and ask questions later.:eek:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kingtz:
While there is no provided evidence for the OP's claims, I think his post actually echoes or confirms what a lot of us have been feeling about Samsung lately. This makes the OP's post really plausible and why most people have not demanded proof or anything official.

Either way, even before reading this thread, I had already fallen out with Samsung. Great hardware, for sure, but ridiculously poor software support. Even if Samsung should decide to release 2.2 right this minute, I'm never buying a Samsung phone again.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MaxPatlick:
Same. This is my 2nd samsung phone and the 2nd time I've been disappointed with my purchase.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] curupira:
I wholeheartly agree.

Now, that's NOT entirely true (see bellow).

As AllGamer says, Motorola is even worse. You should hang someday in the Milestone forum here at XDA and learn about locked bootloaders and how difficult they make the custom firmware development for the involved devices. The original Motorola Milestone (a global version of the USA's Droid) is locked and will possibly NEVER get a Gingerbread kernel. I belived the Droid X is locked too, so this situation can bite Americans too.

That said, this manufacturer-carrier clusterfuck (in my case, the Brazilian #MotoFAIL issue with the Milestone upgrades) leads to ONE conclusion: if you buy Android devices, try to buy "with Google" ones, which can be freely rooted and can have its firmware easily upgraded. If the current "with Google" devices doen't allure you, at least check Cyanogen forums and try to get a supported device.

In all the other cases, I can't really recommend an Android phone, because it's sold (and priced) as a smartphone, but the manufacturers and carriers still behave as they did with dumb or featurephones (as explained by the brave Samsung empoyee). iOS devices get to be upgraded for at least two+ years.

That would really be the ideal solution, but it unfortunately seems quite unlikely at this point. I, for one, only recommend Nexus (and other "with Google") devices, in the hope that it sends to the manufacturers and carriers the right message.

And yes, the Nexus S is a Samsung device, but it's NOT the same deal. In this case, as in every "with Google" devices, it is Google itself who's in charge of updating the OS.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Mac11700:
I've looked at both sides of the arguments and have drawn my on conclusions...

1...Samsung has a ****ty track record of updating their phones...

2...Ever US based carrier..has a ****ty track record of updating their phones by reliable means...and with reliable software.

3...Both Samsung and AT&T...are to blame for all of the misinformation being distributed as " Officially Leaked " information...

4...The only reason the majority of folks on this forum want to see 2.2 released...is so the developers here can fix it..and put out new roms based on it...Will it be better than what we already have...NO..I honestly don't think so...is Éclair any better than the previous release...NO..not really...not in stock form..WTF would 2.2 be any better...

5...Will we ever see a official release of 2.2...I am sure we will...I bet it will be the last one done as a maintenance upgrade..to cost them less if all of this is true..and to be blanket change cure all for every screw up so far...This way they no longer have to worry about it in a class action lawsuit,since they were still developing it all along (or so the story might possible be when it's released) I would expect it right before the 1 year mark of the phones release...since 2.3 will already be out on folks new dual core phones by then...and Honeycomb will be coming out on the new Nexus phones about at that time..This way they can stop actively supporting the phones and it doesn't matter if the bottom drops out of the market for them by the carriers not springing for the cosmetic upgrade...which it could never be because of the way they work differently...

6...Will this be the last Samsung phone I buy...That depends...If they have succeeded in locking them down tighter than a snare drum...most likely...but if the developers stay busy..and keep up their good work...most likely not...I like my Captivate...I like how it looks...I like how it works (now)...and I like the fact the devs can make it better...even if it never sees a "official" 2.2 update...AT&T and Samsung is no different when it comes to their lines and the BS they sell...than any other us based carrier or phone manufacturer ...and I've had all of them in the last 2 years..

If the OP is being truthful..I salute him normally...If not...I just give him the 3 finger salute...;) Either way...it's a interesting spin on it...

Mac
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] MaxPatlick:
Is there any reasonable explanation why Samsung phones are missing basic android features like being able to lock the notification and ringer volumes or sending a contact directly to voicemail??

Two things that I shouldn't need to use 3rd party apps for, but apparently samsung saw fit to just.. not include this stuff?! :mad:

It stuff like this that really makes me regret buying a samsung phone :mad:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] thanatos_evo:
I'm surprised to see so many people jumping on the blame-wagon. Apart from a solitary post, there is no evidence to support OP's words. It makes for some sensational reading, but I think people need to be a little skeptical and take everything they read with a grain of salt.

I agree that Samsung hasn't pushed out updates to the galaxy in a timely fashion, but it could be just that they suck at skinning aosp. HTC does a decent enough job, but they didn't drop 2.2 overnight on their phones.

Whatever the case maybe, am I glad I didn't get one...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] flash_c4:
Also the fact that the Epic only has 1GB of internal memory so move to SD is a MUST!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] uranidiot:
what google should do is send a cease and desists letter to samsung. android is free & by making carriers pay for android 2.2, they must be breaking some sort of law. google should stop letting it's os be installed on ANY SAMSUNG DEVICES THAT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET until the galaxy s owner get there update!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] thanatos_evo:
OKAY

10char
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] testacon:
I feel this is worth a bump since no one commented on this.

Other Samsung phones released with 2.1 did get an upgrade, slow mind you but did get one. What makes the Galaxy S so special that it's Samsung holding back based on money?

I think Samsung just has incompetent developers working for them. If it was clearly about the money why is it that we have these froyo upgrades already? Where did DK28 come from, someone else on here mentioned EA04, looks like their making them, it's just the carriers rejecting them because their developers SUCK.

The only other thing I can think of is that Samsung got sick of the rejection that the carriers gave them and said enough, if you don't like the work so far--NOW you have to pay if you want to go any further...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Sunsparc:
Most of the Intercepts that come into our store for S&R have 2.2.1 on them. All of our exchanges have it on them. I guess they finally worked out the kinks but have not released it to the masses yet, simply putting it on phones going out the door from the warehouse.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] SeEsAw12:
Thanks for the heads up.

I wrote a small piece on my site of your article. This is really newsworthy information.

Hope you enjoy it ;)

http://techneutrality.com/2011/01/17/samsungs-dirty-little-secret/
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] adamr240:
I just thought it was because every update they put out is crap. Seriously, who does Samsung think they are going to fool with these new crop of phones?

"Sorry we couldn't get 2.2 out to you, but we have some new phones coming out."
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] peachpuff:
The op mentioned "requires carriers to pay a per device update fee for each incremental Android update" now does this mean that a carrier has to pay for an update for each and every phone? We all know the amount of galaxy s phones sold, so this would be a somewhat large sum carriers would have to dish out, im not surprised they want to avoid this.

As for the canadian galaxy s owners, well there's only a fraction of us up here and the phones were released only a couple months ago, plus since the carriers are making a killing off of us anyway(canada has the highest cell phone plan costs in the world) they figured they'd throw us a bone with an update.

This whole update snafu will really make me think twice before going with another samsung phone, relying on future updates is definitely out of the question now. But this negative publicity will also put pressure on samsung to change their ways.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Emama:
Phone directly under google will be my (only) choice
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] llontop.m:
Thank God I switched my epic for an HTC phone. The epic was great. But Samsung can suck a fat one. I'll never own a samsung phone again. how dare them charge for an open source project. I do love my samsung led flat screen though =p
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lillejord:
I don't think any one posted this, but I think its the article people were quoting:

Android upgrades: Which manufacturers can you trust?

The article continues on to Android upgrades: Which manufacturers can you trust? USA only.

It appears, that no manufacturer has upgraded more than 50% (42% if you leave out the Nexus One) of their phones made the last two years to 2.2, and no carrier has upgraded more than 33.3%

Unfortunately they don't comment on the companies paste upgrades, like 1.6 to 2.1. Truly an amazingly poor track record for all involved.

I'm thinking, for us Captivate users, its a bad situation all around. Samsung is 1-9, AT&T is 0-9.

Sprint: 2-7

Verizon: 3-9

T-Mobile: 1-8

Dell: 0-2

HTC: 3-7

Moto: 2-13

Samsung: 1-11

According to this chart

Now, the amount of time it took Samsung to release it's first 2.2 update does put them in a class of their own. 159 days vs ~54? Couple that with the fact that this particular update had serious issues? Maybe Samsung is having serious issues with their software development/integration.

Oh, and....

For all you people whining about Samsung charging for "open source". You don't know what they are charging for. They aren't charging for Google's code, that is the only open source part. ALL of Samsung's customizations, which includes, but is not limited to, TouchWiz and all DRIVERS that allow the software to work with the HARDWARE, are not open source.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] beanbeanbeanbean:
^^^This X1000

Anyone who is complaining that they are charging for open source software is a complete idiot, you should just go flush your phone down the toilet.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] zagoyaao:
Very interesting and thank you for the info!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Miami_Son:
I'll say it again, Samsung, not the carriers, promised this upgrade to Galaxy S buyers. They promised it online, to the media and in the instructions included with several of their accessories for this product line. They did NOT say they would provide it at extra charge or that it was dependent upon the carrier paying a fee for it. They said that an update to Froyo would be forthcoming, period. Granted, there was no firm time frame for this (although by the end of last year was mentioned), but considering the short product cycle of these devices, 6 months is more than a reasonable wait period. They need to get off their asses and make this right.:mad:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ipatella:
Android openness is great in theory, XDA is a prime example of how the community and end user can benefit from it. As strange as it this is going to sound, Android openness is what's killing this OS. It drives me crazy every time I hear Andy Rubin talk about open source software and how amazing he thinks it is that OEMs can put skins on android. In my opinion openess is only benefiting the OEMs and the carriers which should be unacceptable in google's eyes. It's completely unacceptable for Samsung to get away with this capitalist 2.2 holdout. Even if this isn't true, Samsung should be still be embarrassed that none of their US Galaxy S phones have 2.2 on them. Back to my open source rant, Samsung's 2.2 contract holdout is a perfect example of how Open-source hurts the end user and benefit's the OEM.

It may seem like I hate android or am a fanboy of a another platform but that couldn't be further from the truth. I just hate the bad apples that give the orchard a bad name. Android has many compelling reasons going for it. Samsung's update bull****, Verizon putting bing on their phones, sprint installing game trials that you can't uninstall are giving the platform a bad name and nobody seems to care as long as the money is still coming in.

Ohh and I'm an HTC user, because nobody does updates like HTC. Maybe Motorolla does.