yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] wshader:
Exactly, crapware... good bye. Cell phone manufacturers such as Samsung, LG, and even need HTC need to learn that we aren't buying their phones for the software, but it's the hardware that we care about. You can dispute this if you want but I believe the development threads for every android phone made would disagree with you.

Why did I buy the Epic over the Evo? It wasn't a Sense vs. TouchWiz issue. It was this phone has the hardware I want on a decent carrier in my area with a slide-out keyboard. Software can be changed as long as it available. That is why I got rid of my Iphone, even unlocked it is still locked to an Apple ecosystem with almost no customization options without going through another apple product unless you spend about 20mins doing so. Also ATT was unable to provide the service I needed in my area.

Even if Samsung did want to include their applications such as TouchWiz and Media Hub I'm quite sure the development time would be much less then that of how they do it now.

Your right the carriers are their customers however they should also have the responsibility to the end-users, us. Looking at your example about the carriers being the customers that's almost like looking at Best Buy or any electronics store in general buying Samsung TVs. If Samsung gives Best Buy a crappy product that the customers will not buy why would Best Buy continue to support and carry Samsung products? Carriers carry cell phones because they want the customers to buy them, sign new contracts to receive a discount on the hardware and be locked into the new contract.

You are correct, and that's caused by the markets as they exist now due to carriers subsidy's. Look at the difference between the American cell phone market and in other countries where they need to be more competitive. If cell phone companies were to accept that the should just be a "dumb pipe" so to speak and all cell phones were not subsided the market would be more competitive and unlocked phones would not cost $800.

It has nothing to do with the OP. There is a hang up some where along the update process that needs to be resolved. And I have yet to see one company shoot them selves in the foot by making the customer happy. If customers refuse to buy Samsung devices due to shoddy support what carrier will carry them?

I know this was not directed towards me but I never said they couldn't. My point was that because they make one device they make one update that is distributed by one channel. All releases are pushed to all devices at the same time both cutting development time for updates and keeping all devices current. The only time there was an issue with this was when ATT refused to allow tethering until ATT had the ability to charge for it. Did Apple go and delay the update for every other carrier in the world? No they put it out anyway and told ATT if you want to continue to carry our device you'll deal with it.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bpodz34:
Root and delete bloatware
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] brilldoctor:
Sence.is actually worth it
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] aztektum:
Couldn't they be held liable if people made a decision based upon what authorized reps are saying if it influenced purchase decisions?

It makes me think these "Samsung is holding carriers hostage!" stories are just to get page hits on people's blogs.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] primusmagestri:
OP started this thread explaining politics between Samsung and the US carriers. I totally accept that this storry can be true and the carriers just sort off boycotted Samsung in hopes they would get the damned upgrades for the end users for free. time has passed, silently boycotting some products that gain momentum is nothing they want to stop on THEIR side so they keep selling the devices anyway. time passes even more up to the point where Samsung makes a good deal with Google for the new Nexus.

now, in this situation, even if the carriers would like to pay the price, wouldn't it be really inconvenient to both Samsung and better yet Google to accept updates for 'old' devices that could really compete against 'not-so-much-changed-since-galaxys' hardware inside the new Nexus? how in the hell would Google sell big its new baby with competition so harsh - competing devices from same producer, with very similar hardware just a bit difference on bloatware and, OK, some new bloatware? :D think about it, there's new politics, not only the old Samsung - carriers politics but also Google against all others politics. I trust Google wants to secure its ground in selling these 'new' devices with 'new' software :D

i guess you all US end-users should resort to XDA for upgrades, hopefully they will come and make your devices work AS INTENDED. good luck :)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] snowmanwithahat:
Thanks for the information. I'm not at all happy with these practices and I really believe I'm going to be placing my ballot on this with my wallet and denying Samsung the money next time... I'd much rather support LG, Moto or HTC on my next purchase if I get updates in time.

.... I'm still bitter about having a super loose screen too.... horrible build quality on this Epic4g
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bazil749:
So, shortly after reading this thread, I decided to root my phone. Got Auxra ROM I believe and it was good.

Then, shortly after that, Samsung finally made good on their "promise".

Now, my GPS doesn't work and I can't send MMS messages (Error in server response.)

Going back to rooted now. I've officially given up.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] johntitor:
Seems like SAMSUNG is playing a bad game which may end terribly wrong to them...

I'm tired of all this Samsung "Can't help you, Can't Communicate you" stuff...

People is really getting mad at this company.

I'm against this technology politics... BREAK THEM NOW.

---

PD: I Also hate Samsung Canada
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] reinbeau:
Go with	good custom ROM and don't look back. I'm loving Serendipity. GPS is good, everything works well.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Warpetr:
T-mobile and Samsung have released 2.2 (froyo) update for galaxy S only through kies

I'm new and cannot post the link yet but you can search the update procedure by searching for:

forums.t-mobile.com t5 Samsung-Vibrant Samsung-Vibrant-software-upgrade-to-Android-2-2-Froyo-now td-p 678871
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] hsuri11:
this actually clears up a lot of questions. Thank you!
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] heygrl:
OP must be laughing so hard with how he trolled everyone
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] us3rX:
Considering the nature of the post and that the guy, by doing this, is risking his job, I am sure this is considered a "leak" not an official message. Releasing copies of internal docs almost always get someone fired.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Miami_Son:
Given that Samsung has stated online and in product literature (instructions that come with accessory docks) that a Froyo update is forthcoming, I don't see how they can charge any carrier for it. Considering that a feature of the docks will not work without Froyo, they are either fraudulently selling these accessories or already committed to providing the update at their own expense. Either way, they are in violation of FTC rules and should be brought to explain why we are still waiting for this promised update.:mad:

Oh, and why is Google inactive on this? It hurts the Android platform as much as it hurts Samsung and AT$T for this kind of shenanigans to be going on. While I'm no fan of M$, they wouldn;t stand for any vendor screwing around with Windows like this.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kobesabi:
Thank you for valuable info tipster. Eclair is like beta half-finished product. To get a complete final product, US carriers have to pay for that? No wonder no one in US gets it and everyone upset about it. Samsung been holding US carriers and the users alike hostage on Froyo. Just do the right thing Samsung. Release Froyo out and this problem would go away. You already burn bridges with 60% of the buyers. Save what's left.

I wonder if Samsung charge to Euro carriers or just only to US carriers?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Masterface7:
Did you not read the OP, it is obvious samsung is the one who is screwing us. I for one will definitely not be giving anymore money to them. I can only hope that other people here will show samsung that this is not okay with their wallet.

No more samsung tv's or phones will be bought be me.

I wish I had bought the Evo over the epic now on sprint, I hope that a phone like the moto atrix will come to sprint.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] bigray327:
Thanks, OP. I hope you don't lose your job, but it sounds like you're on a sinking ship anyway.

Wow, it's absolutely

amazing

to me that Samsung management can't see that their tactic failed and will only cost them future business. This was supposed to be their big cross-carrier moment in the sun, and they've foolishly shot themselves in the foot. This is going to cost them huge, and they'll deserve what they get.

One more thing. Upgrade your own phones, people. Android 2.2 runs well on these phones.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Shipyaad:
Good point, unfortunately.

Hmmm... better idea. Maybe the OP could leak the 2.2 RIL source code for these phones... =) Specifically, for the Fascinate... please....
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] boborone:
things that make you go hmmmm.....
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] tekhindosrampage:
This makes me hate Samsung even more.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lowtech80:
if this is true..I can understand carriers holding out until a 2.3 build is available. No sense in paying to get froyo when gingerbread is around the corner. But if they were doing that...they should also give the option to be able to buy an update directly to the consumers. That way consumers wouldn't have to wait for carrier testing.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Rawat:
This is stupid.

Why would they update intercept, and other mid/low range phones to 2.2 then?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ksizzle9:
This isn't stupid. Is the most legitimate reason I have heard. Samsung seems to be the ONLY PEOPLE that cannot update their phones. No matter what kind they are. Period. Im over it and that's why my phone says Droid x, (in the sig) and would say incredible (if I wasn't selling my beloved dinc.;-() I have a x for work, so I use that. I got my fascinate in hopes that it would have froyo, and have it before gibgerbread was old news. They may sell the next series of galaxy phones, but as people realize what is happening I pray that Samsung will be out of the mobile space, and not because of me buying one phone and being let down, but to many people doing that and being let down. To the person saying they wanted to trade their epic for an EVO, do it, you will not regret it.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] emuneee:
I would absolutely love a RIL source code leak.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] WntSolstice:
Well - this is all well and good

But seriously, what is actually wrong with the current image?

GPS is an issue with a lot of Samsung phones - is it actually for reals fixed with Froyo?

Performance - sure, Froyo is very fast, but if your phone was actually slow, why buy it?

Other than that, what does Froyo give that Eclair doesn't?

I'm pissed because I was dumb enough to buy a phone based on marketing (they claimed it would be Froyo asap, etc) - but I bought the phone because it was freaking awesome. I'm lucky enough to not suffer from the GPS issue for whatever reason - but everything on here runs great. Every time I've flashed a custom ROM, it's been worse than the (pared down, bloat-reduced) default Samsung image.

I simply won't by another phone like this - but what are the rest of you going to do about it? Whine? Flash ROMs and live with it? Sue for false advertising (I'd like a piece of that)
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Superalpaca:
Well then, this certainly sheds some light on the subject.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nonstickvelcro:
Actually watch that youtube vid again. At 4:45 is says "Upgradable to 2.2". Still sucks, but again never buy a phone based on promised upgrades unless you buy it from google I guess. Later,
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] flash_c4:
Yes it was first marketed as having 2.2 which made the lack of internal memory not a big deal but without it the phone is a joke. This whole mess reminds me of the pissing match that has been going on here between Time Warner and one of the local television stations about Time warner not wanting to have to pay additional money per customer to continue to carry the channel. Shame on Sprint and Samsung because the bottom line is that neither of them care about the customer in this matter or they would just get the damn thing released.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rmcsc:
Doesn't only apply to the Galaxy S line. Let's not forget the Behold II...
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Miami_Son:
Flash-support in the browser

Ability to move apps to sd card

Audio output in car and home docks

Various other enhancements that make using the device better

Enough to convince you why we want it?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] shadow65781:
Thank you for the info. samsuck has lost a 4 phone generation customer because of this bs Im buying the atrix. HELLOMOTO
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] AllGamer:
i agree with the hypothesis, with the exception of Motorola

Motorola, simply denies upgrade (maintenance) for any of their recent phones.

they are playing even a more dirty game than Samsung
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mykie242:
Unfortunately, that still isn't true in any of the current DK28 Froyo roms for Epic 4g...

I have two desktop docks and a car dock with mute line outputs on them.

Each one even came with a red sticker saying "Audio out functionality will be fully functional upon the Android 2.2 release for Galaxy S phones".
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] nene95:
This needs to stop

Ok, i have been waiting for this to happen. We need to put a stop to this, actually google needs to put a stop to this. I know i may get **** for this, but thats where google needs to be a little like apple or palm. They need to be the ones responsible for the updates. Androids greatest strenght is also its weakness. With fragmentation, skinning and all the other bull**** that comes with being open is just making it worse. I prefer plain vanilla android, and it seems that most on here do as well. Phones are still being shipped with 1.6 and 2.1! Have you tried blur? Touchwiz? They are horrible, not to mention all these smaller companies making tablets now with there versions. If thhings dont shape up, its looking like a verizon iphone might be in my future.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] gmanunited:
I know I have made my choice on Samsung Now. I really appreciate this story and bravery although disturbing for consumers.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] mayurolla:
I was going to mention this as well. Lets not forget they promised 2.1 to behold 2 on video. They later pulled the video but its still out there. After hearing that crap. Don't know how and why people still buy Samsung after all this crap.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] a2tz:
I came from a blackberry to the epic, and it's awesome, but also sucks seeing everyone else i know with an android phone have froyo. (evo, droid, droid x.....etc)

+1 here for not buying a samsung again.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] thephoneguyusa:
Good bye Sammy

It is official I traded my Vibrant for a mint N1 and will keep it until a new Nexus is made by HTC or a different manufacture. Bad move with Google making the NS with Samsung.. Sure it is a sweet phone but with Samsung having the track record that it has was enough for me to avoid the new nexus for now. Loving my N1 and the only thing I will miss about the Vibrant will be the screen..
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] gbcobra:
Def some interesting info and does put some backing around the many theories floating around. I had my own theory which was they were going to skip Froyo and go right to Gingerbread. Other than the Galaxy S tab I dont see much from Samsung.

With the new changes Verizon is rolling out regarding the phone upgrade process and the growing popularity of the Android platform and updates I think cell phones as we know it is on the brink of some very interesting changes.

Eh either way time to do a good base backup and start flashing and developing :). I do enjoy the freedom we have in truly customizing the Droid line of phones.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Miami_Son:
Exactly why the FTC should be involved. I think Samsung should be forced to buy every one of these accessories back at full retail since they were sold under false pretenses.:mad:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] Dobloro:
Thank you for post this! This is the only reason I have read that sounds legit. It still sucks that we don't have Froyo, but at least I know why.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] pcmp:
and here i was, a Samsung fan, now disappointed and upset.

Mind you, I don't have a Samsung phone, gotta a G2 :p. But the wife has a dumb Samsung and I was thinking about getting her a new "smart" one. After all, my TV, DVD, Camcorder, HD, and mp3 player, they are all Samsung, including her "feature" phone which has a very nice screen for old tried eyes.

But... fan no more.

It's obvious that they don't care about the customers, when they hold them hostages.

Companies that don't care about their customers should lose their customers, and I'm doing my part.

Unless, of course, it is Apple. They can keep their brain disabled followers under their death grip. It's fun to watch... :eek:
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] heygrl:
this makes no sense whatsoever.

Samsung is charging for updates?

Why does the Intercept have 2.2

Why does the Acclaim have 2.2

Why do the Bell, Telus, and Rogers SGS phones have 2.2

Why does the SGS on a TON of other smaller carriers all around the world have 2.2

Why does the Dell Streak on AT&T still have 1.6 when it has 2.2 elsewhere? Because AT&T is delaying the update - straight from Dell.

...this is all nonsense.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kongqueror:
Very interesting... If this is true, the only thing I can conclude is that canadian carriers are less greedy than US carriers - who would've thunk it? So to my Canuck eyes, the carrier is still to blame.

But how do you explain the 2.2s on other Samsung phones there?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] lqaddict:
Google officially supports two phones - Nexus One and Nexus S. Android OS is available for everyone to tinker with from phone manufacturers to car entertainment centers manufacturers. This is a pro and a con at the same time of the open source software. Once it is in the hands of Samsung, Moto, HTC, you name it Google has little to do with it. Sure Google constantly updates the source code repository and tries to keep its own devices up to date (BTW, where is official GB for N1?), most OEM's won't be bothered to keep their past offerings up to date though.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] ewilts:
What it suggests is that the Canadian carriers know how to negotiate and the US carriers don't.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] rotorrocket:
Sent the link to this posting to Samsung and received this "canned" response... Hope this lights a very hot flame under their butt....

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Dear Mr. ****,

Thank you for your inquiry. However, Samsung Mobile does not comment on rumors or speculation. With regard to the Froyo update, we recently issued the following statement: “Samsung feels it is important to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available only after we feel that we can give the millions of U.S. Galaxy S owners a simple and reliable upgrade experience. Due to the complexity and unique functionality of each Galaxy S device, we are performing additional testing and are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S. Galaxy S owners, including the Samsung Epic 4G, as soon as possible.”

Thank you for your continued interest in Samsung products.

Sincerely,

Technical Support

Lieanne
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kingwp1:
Misdirected

I think all this blame being thrown at Samsung is a little misdirected. The OP gave some very useful information. However, after reading all 7 pages, I've only seen a handful of people asking the right questions.

I live in the US and I'm on AT&T, running a ROM based on the official Froyo release from Rogers in Canada. How did they get an official release if Samsung is the big bad guy? We need to be upset with the US carriers refusing to pay Samsung. As one poster pointed out here: the Android code is open source and free, but the time and resources spent by Samsung engineers is not. They have every right to request payment from our carriers to put out the update that they worked hard on. Our carriers make enough money as it is nickel and diming us for every feature they offer.

My question is this: Can the OP shed any light on the relations between Samsung and carriers from other countries? How many foreign carriers refused to pay Samsung for the update?
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] boborone:
Time and resources for what? Overlaying it with tw? That's the only problem they are having with it.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] kingwp1:
That doesn't happen overnight. Unless I just don't understand the Korean work force: they want to get paid for time they put on the clock just like we do.

The point is: if the OP is crrect, then our US carriers being stubborn is the problem here. AT&T charges every single new smartphone customer for a dataplan. There is most likely a great number of customers who don't use their full bandwidth on those plans. Right there you end up with some extra money in AT&T's pocket. AT&T should toss some of it over to Sammy to keep their customers happy! As everyone knows, they've already got their share of haters.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] WntSolstice:
These are definitely good features - but are they enough to base a law suit on?

Those of us who care can get these anyhow. The rest don't care.

There is nothing 'defective' about 2.1, as is - which makes it a very difficult thing to base a suit on, in my non-legal opinion. Like I said before - I won't buy another device like this from my carrier, which is going to pain them a lot more than my just complaining. I currently own 3 smart phones, representing a substantial investment. I am in the market for a new one (to replace my aged G1)... and now I am more interested in who is to blame. Samsung (in which case a the Nexus S won't be the phone) or my carrier (T-Mob), in which case it won't be coming from them.
[Android Software/Hacking General [Developers Only]] heygrl:
Uh no, AT&T's version just has a metric-ton of AT&T crap but T-Mobile's version specifically has WiFi calling and some other major modifications that can't just be thrown in. WiFi calling didn't even ring properly on some of the earlier builds, the earpiece rang but not the speaker phone.. a major bug.