yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
They have the average user phones. Look at the mytouch and the droids. They are big phones and they are very average user based. ASOP Google isn't something I would tell an "average" user to check out. Its rough around the edges UI wise, but that's something people like us want, a barebones experience. However, all the galaxy's, mytouches, droids and htcs fill that whole average space.
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
Very true. It's unfortunately we all know the downsides to going with those types of lines of phones.

I guess, it may come down to a fact I am reluctant to accept: the Nexus line may not be meant for me. I thought the whole idea of the Nexus line was to provide a pure Google experience that's unhampered by developer skins, that got the cleanest Android experience... but that hasn't been true [yet]. Gingerbread is still chock full of glitches, some easily comparable to other phones with developer skins which we shun so much. It just makes me reevaluate the worth of the Nexus line, and more generally speaking, the overall Android experience.
[Nexus S General] irishrally:
The Nexus line is not really geared towards the average user and will probably never sell as many phones as the likes of the Galaxy S line. Google knows this, I know this and I'm fine with it. I'm not an average user and the Nexus line is perfect for me. Both the N1 and N2 are far better phones (for me) than any iphone yet. I'm hooked on the Nexus line unless something major changes. Hell, just to not have "tmobile" or "verizon" plastered all over a beautifully designed phone is enough for me, well maybe not, but every little bit counts.
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
Are the glitches you speak of ones that you experience or that your reading about? Your setting yourself up to hate the nexus s if you are collecting all users bugs taking them all against your phone. I really enjoy my nexus and other than some forcecloses its been a streamline expirence. The phones' going to have problems. Its a brand new device. Your GOING to see more threads complaining about build quality compared to endorsing it. People like to complain when they aren't satisfied but keep to themselves when they are. My nexus was exchanged for a signal issue which has since never arised on my replacement, and the build is great. Force closes can mainly be pointed at the fact that your ahead of the curve on gingerbread and most apps were done with froyo in mind. I remember the same problems with new iOS versions and older apps. It happens. Personally, I think your ready for a skinned froyo device or maybe even Wp7?
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
Agreed. Its just the icing on the cake. I really hated that with the captivate, especially since the rogers version only had the Samsung tag on it.
[Nexus S General] :
That may be it. The "Google experience" is a pretty boring experience. Moto knows this, samsung knows this, anyone who touches pure android knows this. I remember the first time I loaded up an AOSP rom on my N1.

This looks to change with honeycomb though, seeing how enthusiastic matias is during the interview in engadget has given me hopes. He looks very happy to have free reign at google. It's almost a perfect position for a graphics designer to not have to answer to anyone but yourself since android is not a product to be sold but given away.
[Nexus S General] ap3604:
Hi onthecouchagain :)

Just wondering, does your re-evaluation of Android mean that your thinking about jumping ship to iOS or Windows Phone 7?
[Nexus S General] phonex1:
Look at HTC sense. IMHO apart from the friend stream it is awesome. Pity the Desire seemed laggy and I decided to ditch it for something better otherwise HTC sense blows away the user friendliness and boring-ness of iOS any day. If Nexus S isn't getting a second release like the N1 I am grabbing the Desire HD/Inspire (not a fan of touchwiz or motoblur)
[Nexus S General] booyakasha:
You said it in your post, maybe its just not for you :/

I could never see switching to an iOS device after being with Android since the beginning. Also keep in mind that while Apple's lead on Google is small (they started maybe 6 months or so apart), that's a lot of time on the tech world. Granted, I feel like Google has stopped trying to play the catch up game and has moved on to doing their own thing, which I appreciate.
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
I like the HTC Sense UI as well, but man does it take a toll on your battery life.
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
I've used iOS before and I find that the Apple ecosystem isn't particularly ideal either. Their philosophy of "the-average-user-is-basically-an-idiot" doesn't mesh well. However, that doesn't mean I can't respect the iPhone and iOS for what they get right. Not sure if I'll return to it per se, but now that I've used Android a bit more extensively, I am beginning to see the pluses and minuses of both platforms.

Haven't tried WP7 beyond playing with it in an ATT store. No real opinion about it, but I am not particular interested.

The point of my mini-editorial and of my criticisms of Android is to hope that it continues to improve. There is so much they get right, yet so much they can improve, and yet even more potential they can tap into which they seem to willfully not do. I think that's disappointing.
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be improving, everyone is improving with newer, sleeker updates.
[Nexus S General] mgymnop:
The new MT4G has the sense ui and the battery life was amazing. I come from the N1 so I know what bad battery life is;-)
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
My GF's MT4G was so horrible with battery life that we just ended up swapping it for a different phone. The bloatware and the unwillingness to want to root/rom the phone (shes not interested in that) was more than enough to drop it for her.
[Nexus S General] cu_ninja:
After reading all the comments it hit me, that unless Apple becomes willing to completely change iOS and open it up more, Android will simply continue to innovate because of it's openness. That is what makes Android better in the end.

By not choosing sides in the hardcore user vs average user war Android will win because honestly what can Apple do to make their os any better than it already is? More awesome apps? Ok, but nothing more than that can change without freaking out the Sheeple.

The longer iOS remains a singular interface the more the sheeple will become dependent on that interface. That's why apple went to a yearly update, because the can only innovate so much so quickly (this goes for hardware too). Android on the other hand can continue to innovate at a much faster clip and that is the beauty of the Nexus line.
[Nexus S General] ap3604:
For alot of people, being guaranteed to have the best phone of its type for an entire year and guaranteed yearly updates are what they want :)

A controlled system like Apple isn't really better or worse, just different ;)
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
Well said. There are pluses and minuses to both methods. After using Android more extensively, I'm beginning to see the purpose of such a uniformed system they have. It's just a shame I don't particularly agree with their other philosophies, which is why I wish Google would step up and out of their developer phone mentality and create a friendly, unified, end user phone.

Look at the stress that the potential rumor of a refreshed Nexus S is causing in the other threads. Another knock against Google's fractured ecosystem? Things are changing at such a breakneck speed that it may be too fast for its own good?
[Nexus S General] robstunner:
Mark my words its not an upgraded version of the Nexus s. If it is anything it is the same nexus but with a different radio (euro or att 3g bands)

Again, if u want more user friendly.... go with a non nexus device.
[Nexus S General] slowz3r:
Im going to have to agree with the new radio part, but we will see like i said before i dont think they would be making enough money on an upgrade nexus S seeing as it isnt a main stream device
[Nexus S General] distortedloop:
The power to customize or dig into the internals is not mutually exclusive with the ability to have a Sheeple friendly product, even in the world of Apple.

I'm a power user, hacker, tech professional and I love my MacBook Pro, I install all kinds of stuff and use the terminal to get a lot done.

My 80 year old mother who's definitely in the Sheeple class also loves here MacBook Pro. It's easy to use, stable, and does what she needs.

Granted, laptops aren't cell phones, but they're getting closer and closer in function these days.

All that said, I agree with your overall assessment of why Android will eventually "win" the phone OS war...but iOS and Apple will never go away.
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
I suppose I'm just disappointed by Gingerbread, and to a lesser degree, Android in general.

I wonder if people are fooling themselves regarding the value of the Nexus line. We're imagining a large disparity between stock Android and manufactured OEMs that simply isn't true, or isn't as true as we wish it were. Stock Android hasn't liberated us from the issues which we shun OEM skins for, and seems to have created a slew of new ones. Sadly, the things we complain most about of OEM skins still exist to some degree in stock Android. Likewise, Bloatware is blown way out of proportion. No one is willing to admit they do absolutely no harm whatsoever.

Considering there are only 2 major updates from Google in a year's time anyway, I'm just reevaluating the value of the Nexus line. My past experiences with Android have always had OEM skins, and I was possibly making excuses to keep liking something from Google. Now that I'm using stock and there are no more excuses, I'm not sure if I can safely say Android is for me, even though I really want it to be.
[Nexus S General] :
This is the value of the nexus line:

fasboot oem unlock
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
Right.

I guess this is my own mistake, but there was only one way to find out if stock Android was for me, and that was to try it with the Nexus S. I did so under the impression that I'd be freed of ridiculous OEM skins and the negative consequences that such hampering skins cause to the phone. I find instead that the experience isn't so far removed and that stock Android is full of its own problems.

Unfortunately, I seem to also be stuck between a rock and a hard place. The alternatives do not sound appetizing either, which is why I wrote my mini-editorial in the hopes that Google might improve stock Android to become appeasing to the end user, more uniformed and stable, all the while keeping the customizations and features we love it for.

Someone earlier mentioned the idea behind Honeycomb is to make it more intuitive and user-friendly. I can hope...
[Nexus S General] mgymnop:
For me Stock android meant that you have the pure google version that should have been maybe the ugliest and cleanest but the most stable version of all. The skins and changes that the OEMs and mobile phone companies put on it is to give the phones a specific branding and add maybe some additional functionality.

What we have now is that Google releases beta products and the OEMS are polishing it and add a lot of functionality. When I have less problems/bugs with Sense UI on a phone than with the stock Android OS then something is wrong.
[Nexus S General] deeren:
It all comes to one's taste.I for one love the stock look. Even on my desire, I am running oxygen rom. Sense is beautiful but in the end, the laginess and probs encountered do not create a pleasant experience.
[Nexus S General] irishrally:
OK we understand how you feel about the NS, gingerbread and now the nexus line in general, no need to keep writing the same thing in 26

different threads always with a long winded five paragraph essay.

EDIT: sorry rough day at work, not in the most patient mood.
[Nexus S General] jivemaster:
What exactly is the problem with android and the nexus series? You haven't really said anything apart from wide generalised comments which don't cover specific things you dislike.

Android is the king of customisation, features and integration. With that comes bugs. But they're being squashed on a weekly/monthly basis. The best thing about android is that it is community based, even official google devs are contactable. You don't get that with apple.

Google listens and responds to the community. This is the reason for the nexus line - a relatively powerful device that can showcase the latest android developments but left open to allow anyone to make the device and os better. Though a hand in hand approach between the community and google comes fantastic features which are made and come to us nexus owners first.

Android has bugs because it tries bold things, and the huge features that come with that risk are mostly reliable and great. And others need work. It's a wild ride and it's an exciting and fanatic one. It's not google's way or the highway like it is with apple. Google gives you real innovation.

If this isn't your thing then android and more specifically the nexus line of devices are not for you.
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
Not sure what's exactly bold about a home screen that slides properly without lag or freeze, icons that can be repositioned without them randomly disappearing (then appearing in folders), ringtones randomly changing shouldn't be an issue, photos in the gallery disappearing, phone rebooting during a phone call, keyboard registering double hits then sometimes doing the opposite, not registering hits (the space bar is especially prone to this)... There are a slew of other issues, many of which have been discussed in other threads and are shared by many users. The ringtone randomly changing has upwards of 80+ stars in the Google report. What's worse is, these are standard functions that should work without problems. The phone isn't attempting anything bold with any of these functions.

Like others have said, the "pure Google" experience is overhyped, and perhaps I have myself (partly) to blame for believing it. I thought the idea of getting away from OEM skins was to have an Android experience with little faults, where the skin wouldn't hamper the phone like it does on other non-stock Android devices. It turns out, that's not true, at least not to the extent we praise stock to. I understand all things have glitches and growing pains, but some things are inexcusable. Like someone said in another thread, Gingerbread feels like a beta.
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
I'm sorry.

Edit: Please let me clarify my position. I knew I would invite some heat, but unlike the other threads where people simply throw out "Nexus S sucks" or whatever (which by the way, isn't how I feel about the phone), I wanted to have a genuine and hopefully in depth discussion about Nexus/Android. Many have responded in kind with valid points and opinions, and I appreciate a good discussion. Again, sorry for the repetition.
[Nexus S General] irishrally:
Me too, took my bad mood out on you. My bad.
[Nexus S General] tekkitan:
In my opinion, iPhone has been challenged by Android ever since the G1. Google brought Android video recording on the G1 before Apple could bring it to the iPhone (requiring you to buy a new phone even). Not to mention multi-tasking, copy and paste and a comparable market full of apps out of the box. There was an Android phone out with a front-facing camera even before the iPhone 4 came out.

Simply Apple is playing catch up constantly with Android phones. Google doesn't need to release a developer phone to directly compete with the iPhone. Android is already ahead of Apple in the "smartphone race" in my opinion. The activation numbers are higher than the iPhone, ad impressions revenue on Android are higher than on iOS (not really a big deal for us, but it is for Google), phones sold, etc. Every time someone I know with an iPhone shows it off to people, I show them my phone can do it and show them everything I can do that the iPhone can't.
[Nexus S General] RogerPodacter:
Well honestly the nexus one didn't seem to have some of these more serious issues such as reboots like the nexus s has. So I'd say the pure android experience WAS worth it at one time at least, and froyo too was damn solid on the nexus one.

So the nexus s maybe just deviated from that but from my experience with the nexus one is exactly what your impression was to me. Maybe its just bad luck karma going with Samsung lol.
[Nexus S General] VelvetFog09:
Thanks for this post. I've always dreamed about. Android having iOS stability. I think to get to the iOS level of stability Google (or any Android developer for that matter) would need to implement tighter control on the software they produce. This would likely mean less freedom on what the user can and can't do with the software, which seems counterproductive to the principles of open source. Using an Android-based device has its pros and cons like with anything else, and it's up to the user whether to ride with these or not. This is just an Android user point of view but it's the freedom of choice I get from Android that won me over iOS in the first place. Is it the perfect platform? No. But it offers choice. Though Apple also gives you the freedom to choose what Steve Jobs wants in a device ;-)
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
Yeah it's a shame there can't be a "best of both worlds" scenario. If only Apple would budge a bit to give users more freedom and choices, and if only Google would step up and make their OS a little more stable and uniformed, reign in the fragmentation, put some standards out, without compromising too much on freedoms and customization. If only... =T

Maybe Honeycomb will change this. I hear their intent is to make a better end user experience, be more intuitive, et all.
[Nexus S General] RogerPodacter:
I don't think android has any issues with stability. Right now my nexus one up-time is 261 hours, that's 11 days straight running. I've done this test many times before but always lost track cause it goes forever. Still running smooth as can be coming on 2 full weeks running. How much better can it get? :-)
[Nexus S General] Lootes:
As one poster mentioned, the pure android experience is boring. We know this and phone makers know this and that is why they have their OEM skins. I would say the like/dislike of these skins is half and half, at least with the HTC UI. This is apparent by the number of custom ROMS with and without it. Perhaps you are right and the pure Android experience is not for you. The pure Android experience takes some work. Widgets, customization, what have you; start googling, downloading, installing, playing,uninstalling, etc. This is not what an average user wants. I think what you are asking for in a separate Nexus line, is a Google developed skin for the average user. One that is better integrated into the OS that they have developed in stead of an OEM trying to paste something on top. I agree that the request has some merit, but i'm not sure if Google wants to get into. I could imagine as Android develops, they will slowly integrate their own image of how it should look and operate that will eventually render OEM skins obsolete.

As for the bugs, ringtones, reboots, etc. You have to remember we are early adopters of a new version of Android. We are more or less the test subjects before you see it start rolling out to other devices. I would just be patient, the updates will come. And let us not forget why the majority of us are Nexus owners. It isn't for the hardware, it is for the updates. Looking at how Samsung has managed updates for the US Galaxy variants, we will be on 2.4, Ice Cream Sandwhich, whatever it is called before they get Froyo.
[Nexus S General] distortedloop:
I like to think of the Nexus or "pure Android" experience as a blank canvas that I can do whatever I want to.

The OEM and carrier skins are semi-finished paintings that I can only modify somewhat without a lot of effort.

Some people aren't built to be handed a blank canvas...

That said, I think most people don't like keeping their canvas blank, hence the demand for those custom roms, themes, and widgets.
[Nexus S General] mgymnop:
I had a N1 liked it a lot. Switched to an MT4G didn't like it first and loved it after 1 month. I destroyed it by accident and thought maybe I should try the NS. I had two NS and today I returned the NS and I will go back to the MT4G. I know some people will call me crazy. I like blank canvas but I don't like big holes in the blank canvas.
[Nexus S General] Lord_Buckington:
I like the clean UI (or blank canvas, as it were) of stock Android. Sure, I have some widgets which I find important, but I only use 3 of my home screens (2 are completely blank). I don't see the OEM/carrier skins as adding functionality, but rather just adding things I can't chose to turn off. I guess I'm one of the people who likes to keep their canvas blank :D

The main attraction of the Nexus is so that I know that, at least software wise, I'll be at the cutting edge.
[Nexus S General] morfy50:
If you wrote that back in 2009 I think you'd draw a lot of criticism. But time and experience with Android handset manufacturers have proven this to be true, IMO.
[Nexus S General] onthecouchagain:
This is a great discussion, but I want to make clear my position, as I feel some responses are directed, or at least related, to me. My issue is not that Android is too boring, or that a blank canvas is undesirable. My issue is that, the whole promise or idea behind vanilla Android is that it frees us from dealing with OEM skins ruining the Android experience. This is ceaselessly echoed by many fans of the Nexus line, and to some degree, have merit, but not to the extent we imagine it does. I wish this wasn't true, but vanilla Android still has a slew of issues. That's what I'm most disappointed by. Granted, we are early adopters of a new iteration of Android, but if this is what it means to "have the latest updates from Google," I'm not sure I want it. Which is why I say I'm reevaluating my feelings about the Nexus line. As someone said before, Gingerbread feels like a beta, and that's not how I want to be treated.

The thing is, I am quite fond of Android OS and want to see it grow and improve. I'll be patient. Perhaps I have myself to blame (partly) for believing a myth about vanilla Android, but if that's true, then we all have to become a little more honest about Android as a platform. To criticize is not always synonymous with hate. I too shun all those other pointless threads where people simply "bash" the Nexus S. It's the reason why I wrote out such a lengthy and hopefully thought out OP, so that I might differentiate myself from those bashers; to have a real discussion about Nexus/Android and how it can and should improve. To do that first, we have to admit a few things about stock Android and Gingerbread that many will be quick to refuse.

Having said that, many haven't disappointed with their responses and have raised great points. I appreciate that.
[Nexus S General] distortedloop:
The point is, with the OEM "skins" added, you not only get the Android quirks/bugs/glitches, you also get all the new ones introduced by the new "skins".

Android has some bugs...the newest version has some new ones. As much as you praise Apple for the experience, every, that's EVERY, new version of the OS has introduced new bugs/quirks/glitches, and even new restrictions.

With the "pure" version of the OS, you only get the Android bugs, not the "skin" bugs and not the skin bloatware.

I'm the one you keep quoting who said Gingerbread had a bit of a beta feel to it, but I think the same post ended with "or more like a release candidate."