yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
i agree with this. im saying if this is the case MS should put a disclaimer in his thread that discourages overclocking. myself i do not overclock my evo at all. i stopped using sbc until this gets resolved somehow. if anything ive constantly praised MS in his thread in the past.
[EVO 4G General] EJerVJerO:
He actually if you read his thread mentioned why he pulled SBC out of his kernels.

Due to troubling reports of battery issues possibly caused by the SBC battery charger modification, all SBC kernel build links have been removed from this post.

He pulled it because of reports it does not say he proved it was SBC causing it nor did he say he had data to back it up. It seems to be he pulled it to be proactive.
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
yeah i guess it could be either a sbc or netarchy kernel issue. you are right and i will not argue that. id just like some clarification from the two devs on it. apparently net thinks it must be sbc, because he sure pulled it in a hurry.
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
well i think until the smoke settles "literally" ;) pulling the sbc mod was a good idea.
[EVO 4G General] xlGmanlx:
who knows and he took the conservative route and pulled but for all we know it might be back next week. Remember that story about an android phone exploding when the guy was on the phone??? all of a sudden droid phones were dangerous, then........we found out that was paper thin and a scam. thats all i am saying, lets not jump to conclusions and look so fickle
[EVO 4G General] EJerVJerO:
Well as a developer I think the unclaimed accusations against SBC kind of helped push him possibly into removing it. Most people who don't read all the threads on here and some of the same discussions happen in many threads might just see "OMFG SBC Kernels will set fire to your phone or other things" and just might say well I will stay away from that kernel.

The developers we have especially on our device have done a hell of a job giving us many options for kernels, roms, and other cool things we can do to our device. I would just hate to see someones work and development on something removed and discredited by claims which have yet to be backed up with proof.
[EVO 4G General] durandetto:
Wow! Aren't just a big douche bag.

Sent from my EVO 3G!
[EVO 4G General] zone23:
About 20 people are about to tell you it had absolutely nothing to do with the kernel. It was a faulty battery or your electric is bad. Maybe you didn't have the battery in correctly, but it absolutely had nothing to do with the kernel.

Reading stories like this is exactly why I stopped using the SBC kernels. I don't care if the battery cost 5 cents i'm not willing to burn it up.

I'm just glad nothing bad happened to you or our home.. just be thankful if it was a cheap knock off battery something a lot worse could have happened..
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
welcome to xda. :p
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
oh boy! how long did it take you to think of that? :rolleyes:
[EVO 4G General] zone23:
Oh I don't know probably two or three hours I had to do some calculations first.
[EVO 4G General] CheesyNutz:
some of the post here is great ! i haven't LOLed in a while @ the office
[EVO 4G General] EJerVJerO:
I think the tags for this thread match up to my thoughts exactly :)

cry babies unite!, is it crack smoke?, smoke oem battery, try a tinfoil hat
[EVO 4G General] cruise350:
The original poster never mentioned how he was charging it?? Was he using the stock charger and cable?? Was he charging from USB?? There are a lot of variables here. Blaming the kernel is a little short sighted. A lot of the other problems people have had on the SBC kernels can be associated with other variables too. I'm not here blaming anyone but I've been using the SBC kernels since they came out and I have never seen my battery temp go above 90 degrees when charging and while trickle charging it is usually around 76 degrees. I'll stick with MS's kernels he seems to have done the most research on this and had put some safeties in his kernels to prevent exactly what the OP claims happened. Also, the kernel he was using wasn't even MS's so stop slamming him. I would lay odds it was a charger or grounding issue and not a kernel issue.
[EVO 4G General] EJerVJerO:
+1

Just about what I have been saying :)
[EVO 4G General] EJerVJerO:
Above is my report from Battery Monitor Widget as you can see on this phone the actual temp on the phone has been pretty reasonable :)
[EVO 4G General] Karl:
i know this fone was smoken
[EVO 4G General] nosfanatic2006:
Wow.....a whole log? Lol
[EVO 4G General] TorxT3D:
everything we do and use on this forum is a RISK we take... noones forcing us to modify our phones the way we do...

so i wouldnt put blame on any one dev, as we're all experimenting on making the phone better..

its called trial and error. SCIENCE. its works.

ziggy gave me quite the scare the other day, so im testing his and netarchy's non sbc kernels.. :D :D

although ms79's sbc v7 kernel has given me the best benchmark scores TO DATE.
[EVO 4G General] catseyenu:
He didn't state the phone was plugged in at the time did he?

/on page 9 playing Ketchup
[EVO 4G General] redditor01:
Threw it in the snow? How irresponsible! You should have used it for body armor.
[EVO 4G General] BrianDigital:
I thinks the fixxer is the op of this topic he is in here on his soap box

It is getting tiring seeing this post still uptop

Fixxer could you not Photoshoped the pic by now seem to be the only person defending that there is no pic and does not need to be
[EVO 4G General] Adam1422:
+ 1

To funny!
[EVO 4G General] dark_dj27:
Honestly that back plate looks more like it was scraped with something than burned by the battery......
[EVO 4G General] deathsled:
are you serious? A scrape? that is heat damage if I ever saw it.
[EVO 4G General] dark_dj27:
I can produce the same thing with a dremel and buffing pad.
[EVO 4G General] akrod2as:
You are paranoid. Why someone would take the time to do that, with no gain, is beyond me.
[EVO 4G General] :
This guy....

You must not watch a lot of forensic shows.
[EVO 4G General] :
Lol. That was funny as hell and idiotic at the same time.
[EVO 4G General] deathsled:
jesus christ dude

why on earth would anyone go through that kind of trouble? why do you think someone wants to go through the trouble to fake some damage? It's not like they're trying to go after Sprint or HTC or something. There's no money on the line here.
[EVO 4G General] ms79723:
Well I think that what happened here was that your phone wasn't idle while past 100%. Normally what happens is that the voltage slowly works its way up from whatever it started on when you put it on the charger to a voltage anywhere from 4.196-4.220 or something. If something is keeping the phone working 100% of the time while its at 4.2V it will raise the voltage by a lot and possibly over the limit..however...the SBC charging kernels have a limit at 4.228 volts. Once the charger is off..of course the voltage drops as well but once that voltage drops, the charger is back on and since you probably had something going on in the background the whole time it would put it over the limit once again..So what you would have is the charger turning on and of at 4.228V which will raise the temp and is probably what caused what happened.

Now of course we could blame the SBC charging because the kernel tells the charger to stay on...but we also can't overlook what was going on with your phone at the time..whatever was running in your background is insane because it takes a lot of usage to go over a limit that high. When idle, you shouldnt even see voltages that high but with usage its very easy for some users to go over the limit. Not all phones are teh same though, when idle, my highest voltage is 4.18V and with heavy usage(constant browsing, listening to music, heavy texting while on the charger) I barely get 4.2V...
[EVO 4G General] HeckNoTechnO:
I think your kernel works great for me and I agree there has to be more to the story than what we are hearing.
[EVO 4G General] deathsled:
ok so what happens exactly if the phone is charged to 100%, idling, and then maybe a text message or a call comes through? That will wake the phone up to a degree, but it should go back to sleep after a minute or whatever. Is it possible that could somehow trigger the phone into some sort of awake? I can't imagine the flashing notification LED would cause a problem, but to keep that sucker flashing is the phone doing something?
[EVO 4G General] xlGmanlx:
Doing all of that would drain the battery since the charge amount is so small after it reaches 90%, there would be more drain then charging. If it scared you that much don't use the mod and move along
[EVO 4G General] ms79723:
Yeah it could wake the phone but the kernel just tries to maintain the voltage close to 100% battery, so you would lose some power, but you'll just gain it back until you reach the highest voltage for your battery..and once you reach that point the charger will try to maintain that.
[EVO 4G General] Cole28:
So I'm guessing it may not be good to use these kernels with the cheap chinese knock offs?
[EVO 4G General] xlGmanlx:
When is it ever a good time to use a cheap chinese knock offs?
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
Depending on the setcpu settings he may have had the cpu pegged at 100%. I know many people, including myself, have it automatically go to performance mode while plugged in.
[EVO 4G General] Cole28:
Good point... I was just wondering because I bought a chinese 3500 off ebay, and read stock kernals do not charge them correctly but the one by MS does.
[EVO 4G General] jesssiii:
I bought one with a picture of a gorilla on one side- made in china- 3500 from someplace called Gorilla Gear or Gadgets? Was loving it with the sbc mod kernel but now I'm so feaked I not only changed kernels but took out the battery and exchanged in my Seidio 1750. Then I was surfing on the phone and noticed my battery got really hot- 102, after charging. I never worried about any of this with my old flip phone ;)

So i'd like to know, too, if that battery would work well with the sbc modded kernels?
[EVO 4G General] willy900wonka:
Read the notice on the battery. Do not add it to water (snow).

BTW you should be able to return the battery as FAULTY. They all have protection circuits inside.

Sounds like yours did not work. I test all my batteries before putting them into the phone. If they don't automatically cut off, then then will over heat and are FAULTY.
[EVO 4G General] swatspyder:
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.

What happens if a battery is inadvertently overcharged? lithium-ion is designed to operate safely within their normal operating voltage but become unstable if charged to higher voltages. When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=906230
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
lmao... thanks man i need a good laugh today. :rolleyes:

not my phone, not my problem.

the op must have been overclocked or using a cheap knockoff battery instead of oem.
[EVO 4G General] jasonziter:
I don't know about banning him but maybe just ousting the mod. I was in that thread from the beginning and several experts (you could tell from their lengthy posts) were cautioning against its implementation and the potential "side effects". For me......an extra hour of use vs. burning up my phone, house, loved ones......its just not worth the risk. Especially if you fly, work in a volatile environment, are driving....etc etc..... I can see the FAA having a problem with this in the future to. Imagine one going off when you are flying. NOT a good situation.

At some point we have to let the developers at HTC do their job and assume they might have a reason for what they do.
[EVO 4G General] cheebahawk:
Coming from a someone who has yet to develop anything, real mature dude.

I'm sorry this is the most idiotic thing I have ever read on this forum. "several experts that you could tell from their lengthy posts"? Really? Are you serious? You do realize in the day of the internet, any idiot can find something online and post it to make themselves look smart and you should take everything with a grain of salt?

If people want to use the SBC kernels (myself included) they should be allowed to. Why ban the mod? The whole point of this forum is that people are producing apps/ROMs/kernels, etc to improve the user experience. With this type of logic, then everything developed at XDA should be banned because potentially it can brick your phone or worse. Isnt that the basic premise of this whole site? that whatever you do, you do at your own risk?

If you dont want to use it, thats fine, but there is no need to talk about banning other people's hard work. Especially where the proof is BS! There is nothing in this thread to show that SBC was the DIRECT cause of any of their problems! It can be a myriad of different issues at play: 1) cheap batteries/chargers; 2) already degraded batteries; 3) other hacks/mods that the user has on their phone! So until you can show me that there is a direct cause and not mere speculation or correlation, then all this is a waste of time.

By taking your logic of "we have to let developers at HTC do their job..." you should return your phone to factory state, delete your profile off this website, and never visit XDA ever again. Clearly developers at HTC had a reason for shipping the EVO with the factory ROM, kernel, not allowing all the other goodies that XDA developers/users have to offer. I hope your phone isnt hacked because you are obviously contradicting yourself here.
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
I definitely don't think he should be banned but don't tell people something is safe when it is not. There is absolutely nothing that says trickle charging these batteries is safe but there is plenty that says it is not.
[EVO 4G General] cheebahawk:
Agreed, maybe MS needs to put a "At your own risk" but isnt that redundant as well? The minute you root your device and put anything on it, is at your own risk.

But you nailed the problem on its head. Everyone has an opinion on BOTH sides, but no direct proof either way. But in this case I think it goes against those that say its dangerous, when they cant prove anything (i.e. that it is the direct cause).
[EVO 4G General] Cole28:
I'm just curious how many of them were doing that bump charge method I read about this morning before using this kernel. People in that thread said it could damage your battery to the point of exploding.
[EVO 4G General] cheebahawk:
You do realize that bump charging is what the Evo ships with from the factory? I think MS's method just changes the point where the Evo bump charges.

I also dont know where you read it but the general consensus is that bump is probably better than SBC.... You should link that thread and the post where people said it could 'damage your battery to the point of exploding'
[EVO 4G General] fixxxer2008:
no ms did a good job but some of these claims are worrying to most. i just got worried because several devs have since stopped using sbc. maybe sbc doesn't play well with cheap knockoff batteries?
[EVO 4G General] Cole28:
Never said bump charging in general was bad. The method was similar to what HTC said to do once to get better battery life by charging the phone to 100% then turning it off, and charge for a few mins. Then turn it on and charge for a bit. Rinse and repeat for about 15 mins. But doing it every day. The thread could have been wrong but just sharing what I read. I'll post a link once I'm at my computer later today. I cant remember what I searched for when I found it.
[EVO 4G General] jasonziter:
Wow......really? Just like we can't TELL you haven't read the sbc original post to see what I was talking about.

Just like we all can't TELL your frame of reference in regards to my post is nonexistent.

Another asshole at xda rears his misinformed, self indulgent blather.

I didn't realize xda was a Dev only forum. Better tell like 90+% of the folks in here they don't have a clue because they haven't written anything.

TRY reading a little before you post your puke on here man.
[EVO 4G General] kf2m:
I have to call BS on this whole overheating battery due to the SBC kernel.

I've had a similar thing happen twice with my phone back in early August. Once with the stock battery, and once with a cheap Chinese knockoff. So this issue predates the SBC kernel by a couple of months. Both times it was due to a combination of an errant program(s) that locked the CPU at 100% while being charged with the display set to never shutoff while being charged, and streaming data. The both the stock battery, and the knock got hot enough that you smelt something burning, and the phone was way too hot to handle (note the kickstand makes for an excellent heatsink). Also note that all your high heat producing chips are right under the battery ( http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=197703&page=1&zoomIdx=6 ). The stocker after it cooled down was reusable, the knock-off bulged the top, and bottom. Just so you know putting a high load on the battery will heat it up just as much, or more than overcharging. Both are equally dangerous not just with these batteries, but any battery.

Doing anything outside of what the manufacturer built carries an inherent risk, and you should proceed with an abundance of caution. If you are so concerned about roasting your battery don't use the kernel. Simple as that. But giving in to the mass of hysterical stupidity is not going to help matters. The OP hasn't provided what kernel/ROM/battery, or any logs so the problem can be troubleshot. Just a rant, some finger pointing, and a picture.
[EVO 4G General] jasonziter:
Did you bother to read this post cheebahawk? Or any of the hundreds of others on xda?

Ps.....what have you developed???? Just out of curiosity?

Most likely jack and **** judging from your 45 posts.
[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
I actually reported... if you go look in that SBC kernel thread that the 4.2.2 kernel made my phone fire hot a few weeks ago. And that was before any of these posts like this were ever made. I stopped using it and for the people discounting that it could possibly be the SBC kernels clearly this isnt an isolated incident. I'm not using them anymore but I only had that 4.2.2 one on my phone for about an hour and it got hotter than ive EVER seen my phone get before.
[EVO 4G General] Agfadoc:
I am old enough to know that we have created a generation or two of people that expect everything to be safe for everyone. I am astounded at some of the comments I have read. It is a sad day for technological advances when there are those who can't read disclaimers, use common sense, or understand that to move forward, you have to test the boundaries. The litigious society we have created is why we are failing. All of us, no matter what country you are in.

Why do we have to have signs everywhere, do not eat the little packet of 02 absorbers.. it doesn't look like anything in the package, but there will be some dumbass who tries to eat it. Do not stick your hand in the moving parts..

I wonder how many people bricked their phones as they tried to root, I wonder how many beta testers of any product found that the "safety" of that product was in question but still continued to move forward so that a safer product could be created.

This community is PURE Beta and even Alpha testing.. There is nobody here that uses STOCK anything, that is why you are here. You aren't content with a manufacturers released product, that is safe and comfortable and warm and fuzzy. I happen to like pushing the threashold, if you don't, you'll remain the same and you should probably flash the sprint RUU and go back to your safe and protected life.

I remember a time when UL rated appliances were the norm and they would burn up on occasion just sitting there plugged in. A triac or capicitor would fail and the thing would smoke... But people don't rememeber what it took to get here... our youth is so ready to lambast anyone when they move out of their comfort zone that they destroy any movement forward.

This is a community of testing, changing, and making things better. There are so many variables in software/kernel/applicaiton/hardware that you will never be safe. Let alone add the manufacturers released safety issues in the product, the hundreds of third party battery and chargers.

SBC is BETA. MS is doing us a service by finding out what can be done, and there are those who are willing to find that with him. I refuse to lambast anyone willing to go beyond that line..

The world is flat!

You can't use mold to create an antibiotic!

You have to wait 10 years before we can give you a product because we aren't done testing it yet...

Pathetic.
[EVO 4G General] cheebahawk:
You do realize most people who have posted their battery monitor history, the charging never went above 4.2?

I'm not the one who assumes that people are experts based on the length of their posts. I still dont understand how you determine somebody is an expert by the length of their posts, that to me is ridiculous. I dont develop, but I dont claim that people's work should be banned based on pure speculation. Again with your whole "jack **** based on your ****ty 45 posts." I dont know why you are so obsessed w/ the length or number of people's posts. Such trivial BS doesnt reflect on someone's intelligence or contribution to the world! It boggles my mind.

Also all the people (including you) are citing to the same damn article and there is nothing concrete. Instead of citing the same article over and over again, why dont you or anyone else for that matter show us proof that SBC charges over 4.3v? As the post you cited shows, the batteries (at least from reputable sources) seems to have hardware protection, which again makes your WHOLE POINT ABOUT BANNING THE MOD MOOT! If you knew this why the hell are you even talking about banning somebody's hard work? The post states DIRECTLY FROM GOOGLE: Since the batteries are hardware protected, SBC kernels cannot overule and exceed the protection.

I didnt take anything you said out of context, I was just showing how your statements are contradictory. You said "let HTC developers do their jobs" then dont mod your device, because you are "not letting HTC developers do their jobs" right? All I'm saying is dont talk about banning people's hardwork, when you nor I contribute anything of value (in terms of mods, hacks, etc) if you think its dangerous, dont use it, but dont degrade other people's work.

Also the statement about "someone who hasnt developed anything" wasnt directed at you, it was directed at the idiot who was calling for MS to be banned.

What the hell does this mean? Again your statements are contradictory, they dont make sense.
[EVO 4G General] brownhornet:
Ok so with that said... if you're using one and the battery explodes while you have the phone to your ear I wonder are you going to say "Oh thats ok, it was just a Beta.":rolleyes:
[EVO 4G General] jasonziter:
Swatspider's post above.....check the lower link. It kind of describes of it might damage your battery.....it sounds like even AFTER you change to a non sbc kernel. With these cheepo batteries a lot of us use........let's just say I replaced my batteries that were used when I had sbc running....and I won't go back to using it until the questions all over xda are resolved.
[EVO 4G General] jasonziter:
Lololol.....thanks dude.