yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] champ052005:
There has been a lot of back and forth arguments here.

There has been a lot of theory vs. real world examples thrown around.

First and foremost, I want to thank MS for all his contributions and hard work toward the XDA community. We always need more people like him to develop more mods and bring in new ideas.

Back to the point... Theory does not always meet real world expectations. Everyone is arguing what kernels should do and what SBC does and doesn't do. But not many actually looked at the code for the kernel. If they did, they would see that...IN THEORY...this kernel does have protections implemented to keep situations like this from occurring. But once again, there are so many variables you have to keep in to account. Is the phone being heavily used while charging, what background activities are running and so on and so forth.

Like Toast said earlier...HTC has had countless hours testing their code and their kernels. I'm not saying the HTC kernel is better...that is for the user to decide. But I can safely say that the more hours spent in testing should yield more stable results.

For those that are basically ignoring all these warning posts...that is your prerogative. But don't say flashing this kernel is safe as rooting a phone or any other mod. It is not. You only brick your phone if you mess up trying to root it. That is monetary. You can only blow your speaker if you do a volume hack. That is monetary. All these things can be replaced. BUT if your phone blows up...you can be seriously harmed. Limbs are not replaceable. Just youtube li-ion battery explosions and you can get a sense as to what can potentially happen. I'm not saying they are all going to be explosions of this magnitude...but there really is a reason why batteries should be charged and disposed of properly.
[EVO 4G General] xlGmanlx:
More phones have been bricked updating radios than confirmed battery damage due to sbc
[EVO 4G General] tonwarr.the.incredible:
Have you seen the pictures of the Motorola phone that exploded in somebody's ear?? You can't predict what's going to happen when you use technology.... hell, you can't really predict anything in life for that matter. Knowledge can be power if you can sort through all the chaos and confusion but, in the end, truth is a matter of perspective and not necessarily something you can read in a book!
[EVO 4G General] Brandito:
that phone didn't explode, the guy dropped it and supposedly didn't notice the screen cracked, he then cut his ear on the cracked glass.
[EVO 4G General] Casshern:
.... Really.....

Sent from my bricked Droid X.
[EVO 4G General] Hemidroids:
OMG this is not an IED by the roadside in iraq.

YOU WILL NOT LOSE A LIMB FROM THAT BATTERY.

I understand your concern but you are waaaaaayyyy off base. To the point of lunacy.

I dont underestimate the damage that can be done (burns, house fire at night..etc) but you are off your rocker.
[EVO 4G General] tonwarr.the.incredible:
Moral of that post was that you can't predict what a piece of technology is going to do. Look at all the variations in kernels and how they respond to different Evos, some work better with BFS, some CFS, and some NOHAVS. There is no standard operating procedure because everybody has their own usage patterns and preferences.
[EVO 4G General] Casshern:
Mods lock this topic.

Sent from my bricked Droid X.
[EVO 4G General] BrianDigital:
might I add if the phone is overheating while charging it will turn off the charging, not sure this is kernel related or hardware(with a bi-metal fuse)

I only know this from the placement of my car mount is over my center vents and i used the GPS to drive from phillie to cape may. the heat was on and after awhile the charging light would just blink and not take a charge just some food for thought
[EVO 4G General] Cole28:
Actually they do pack enough punch to take your fingers or hand off.
[EVO 4G General] tonwarr.the.incredible:
I just had an issue with my phone overheating while charging that, to me at least, proves that cheap batteries are the culprit. I was using a generic stock 1500MaH battery, HTC #15 kernel without SBC, running MikFroyo 4.3 noApps2SD, underclocked to 844MHz and WAS charging my phone while browsing XDA and downloading BOS Liquid Metal when my phone temp skyrocketed to 120°F. I have never used a cheap battery before as I have a Seidio 3500mah battery as well as the stock HTC red battery but it was given to me so I kept it in my wallet as am emergency replacement.... anyways, I have NEVER had this problem before now, especially not while using an SBC kernel with either of the other 2 reliable batteries.

In any case, this may not be conclusive evidence but it's enough for me to eliminate that battery from the rotation and revert back to SBC where temperatures seemed to be more controlled.
[EVO 4G General] Casshern:
Mods....... Lock this topic.... Please.

Sent from my bricked Droid X.
[EVO 4G General] Brandito:
which is why in normal operation phones don't charge the way sbc allows them to.
[EVO 4G General] tonwarr.the.incredible:
Lock it why?? There's obviously relevance here in regards to our phones and useful information for others to dissect and interpret as they deem fit, not to mention others can still report problems or new developments to the rest of the community.
[EVO 4G General] Casshern:
The sight and scope of this topic, are out of hand....

Sent from my bricked Droid X.
[EVO 4G General] tonwarr.the.incredible:
Sir, if you don't like a little honest conversation, please don't read this thread. This is still relevant for many here...
[EVO 4G General] tonwarr.the.incredible:
I don't think it's derogatory or offensive to most here. I personally like having a place to see opposing opinions as well as useful links. I think the thread started off out of scope but has gained relevance as it progressed.
[EVO 4G General] Brian Rubin:
Well this is kinda freightening. Can someone suggest a good non-trickle kernel for a 0003 EVO running Cyanogen 6.1.2?
[EVO 4G General] cruise350:
The OP still does not mention what he was using to charge the phone, was it the stock charger?? Was it the stock cable?? Was it through USB from computer?? Most of those cheap ass chargers on Ebay and other sources are worth the $2 they charge for them and that is a more likely source than the kernel.
[EVO 4G General] Brandito:
doubtful. charging method shouldn't matter. if cheap chargers were the cause of such battery failures there would be documented cases of just that.

the worst that can happen using a cheap charger is slower charge times.

highest amp chargers i've seen are 1a, and that's what i use to charge mine. my car charger is supposed to be rated at 2a.

i do remember reading in my research for a quality charger that the phone will only charge at 750ma though.

either way it's highly doubtful the charger was the cause IMHO.

cheap chargers have been around for ages, i've never once heard of someones phone failing in such a manner from a bad charger.
[EVO 4G General] jasonziter:
Except the 102 stuff
[EVO 4G General] scooter185:
I've always been skeptical about the sbc kernels, and myself would never use them. I just don't see the logic in charging the battery in a way it was not designed for. I had a capacitor short out and blow up this week at work, and that was just an electrical short, instability with a chemical reaction that happens in batteries isn't something I want to risk. Just my two cents.

Id rather my battery/phone not end up like this:
[EVO 4G General] ms79723:
The phone doesnt overheat when charging overnight with SBC. I pick my phone up every morning ice cold which shows that the charger isnt constantly charging the phone. So no overcharging or overheating is possible.
[EVO 4G General] rstuckmaier:
By the anti-sbc people's standards HTC's charging is "dangerous" because the battery is rated 3.7v and HTC charges it WELL above that.

PS: Tags for this topic are HILARIOUS!
[EVO 4G General] anthonyandrews:
well, in a bind, you can smoke that crack out of the tinfoil hat! (which by the way is not commercially available, you are referring to aluminum foil I do believe!)
[EVO 4G General] nYdGeo:
For those that do not know, cell phone batteries have been smoking, burning and exploding for as long as there have been cell phones. Just as laptop batteries have been. They’re all just bigger news in the age of media dominance. Three things changed that have brought this into the limelight with regards to cell phones:

1. More, and much more powerful cell phones = many more and much more powerful, far more compact batteries.

2. We now have forums such as this one for people to discuss exactly these types of topics among others.

3. The human element. This provides us with such thoughts as, "Even though there are thousands using these kernels and the number of phone battery issues claimed to be caused by the SBC kernels make up only a fraction of the actual battery issue/failure percentage, because I used an SBC kernel and I heard or read somewhere that they'll burn up your battery like wildfire, of course my battery problem was caused by the SBC kernel...because I can see it, blame it, and hold it accountable.”

The human element also gives us slimy business that does in fact put garbage batteries out there. Though they all must and do have protection circuitry in them, of which some small percentage is going to fail anyway. No doubt many of the cheap batteries have cheaper, garbage protective circuits that fail at a much higher rate.

Summing what we have so far, I believe that it is possible that the SBC circuitry has contributed to a few phone batteries going way south, burning up, whatever, but only in conjunction with failed battery protection. According to the engineers, batteries burn up because overcharging produces excessive heat energy along with chemical conditions that can produce extremely excessive amounts of additional heat energy. Based on what it does, if the battery protection system is properly functional the battery cannot overcharge, regardless of the kernel, the charger, etc.

I state the above as an objective, logical conclusion based on the information available, and not as the 'God's honest truth" facts. It also excludes geniuses who do things like connecting their phone to a 440v line to charge it.

It also seems likely that if the battery's protective circuit fails and one is using a non-SBC kernel, it is probably less likely of doing anything that involves smoke and/or flame. It then also seems likely that if one is using an SBC kernel and the battery's protection has failed, it may be more likely to do something that makes us very unhappy.

Battery engineering data and logic also says that in and by itself, in a properly working phone with a properly working battery with a properly working protective system, the only thing that the SBC kernel may do is shorten the useful life of the battery. This appears to also be supported by the thousands of people around the world using SBC-type kernels in phones that the batteries have not smoked, caught fire, or done anything other than provide them with great battery life and service for as long as SBC kernels have existed.

In the end, you or I will do what we believe is right based on any of a number of influences.

Thank you for your time.
[EVO 4G General] raiderinks:
AT least you are putting some logic to this, albeit slightly misguided. Here is the real truth about SBC/trickle-charging and batteries:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=10530215#post10530215
[EVO 4G General] z28marols1:
Most Li-ion batteries for small CE devices are rated at 3.7v and can accept a charge up to 4.2v.

One last thought on this subject before hitting the hay... with how much HTC (and other phone manufacturers) were/are being hastled about poor battery life wouldnt it make sense that if a modification like this could yield safe and consistant results that the engineers would have coded the kernel to operate this way in the first place?
[EVO 4G General] freeza:
Like how HTC should have not put a 30FPS block on the EVO then blame it on hardware limitations in the first place? :) Guess manufacturers and OEMs don't know everything!

Just because they didn't do it doesn't mean it was in the consumer's best interest or that it shouldn't be done. Look at all the kernel tweaks that have been done that HTC themselves didn't bother doing.
[EVO 4G General] scooter185:
as posted in the other thread the FPS limit is bad comparison, as the battery has to follow the law of physics/chemistry, where as the FPS limit was a software thing that HTC didnt want to admit to.
[EVO 4G General] spamking98:
So if the kernel is smoking then it turns into popcorn right...

Sent from little beeyatch
[EVO 4G General] SayWhat10:
so out of the 6 people who said the sbc kernel was the problem, is there any actual evidence to support that SBC is definately the culprit? or they are jus saying "SBC did it" ?
[EVO 4G General] nosfanatic2006:
They're just saying...
[EVO 4G General] xlGmanlx:
not sure if you guys have seen this already

linky
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
All this time and you still don't understand what this whole thing is about?
[EVO 4G General] mlin:
Care to enlighten me? To me it seems the real issue is faulty chips in batteries, regardless of the kernal being used...
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
The sbc kernels don't exceed 4.2 volts but they do hold the battery right at it's maximum voltage and force it to absorb more current than it is supposed to. Li-ions charge in two stages; First they hold the current constant and let the voltage rise to 4.2 volts, once it reaches 4.2 volts it stops increasing the voltage and then it watches the current that the battery is absorbing until it starts absorbing less and less. It is then supposed to stop charging and run off the battery.

The first part goes till the battery is at about 80%.

What the sbc kernels do are continue charging past the cut off point so that the phone continues to run a current through the battery. They also disable a timer htc had that stopped charging if the battery has been at 4.2 volts longer than an hour, this is what allows extended batteries to fully charge with them.

Sorry for any typos but I'm trying to write this on my phone and swype is being a b
[EVO 4G General] mlin:
Ok, thanks. But these kernals should have no effect on the battery chips designed to prevent overcharging, correct?
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
The circuitry in the battery is just a fail safe in case something goes very very wrong, think of it more as a fuse. The op and author of that article are wrong in their assumptions, it is incapable of doing anything to protect against what sbc kernels are doing.
[EVO 4G General] craigbailey1986:
Haven't been on here in a while, but just wanted to see if there has been any evidence provided yet? Or still hear say?
[EVO 4G General] bignibb:
Ive been running some variant of the SBC kernel since Nov 25, how long does it take to fry the battery? I ask because I have been on board since the beginning with no issues and was wondering how long those that had issues have had the kernel installed? Im guessing not as long as me!
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Simply because you deny the basic tenants of physics and battery technology does not mean the evidence does not exist.

Whether or not this kernel causes "over-charging"... it DOES keep the battery full.

It is absolutely, undeniably, BAD to keep your battery completely full.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

No one forces you to come into this thread so if you are oh so willing to deny even what expert sites have to say on the issue...then feel free to not join into the discussion.

Moreover, prove that smoking cigarettes actually causes cancer.

Prove that alcohol abuse actually causes liver failure.

I know people that have done both for 40+ years that are completely cancer free with perfectly fine livers.
[EVO 4G General] bignibb:
So there is no time frame for damage to occur? So my battery may fry today, tomorrow, or 10 years from now. I am only asking because if I havnt experienced any ill effects now what is to make me think I should in the future? I also noticed in the ''Testing Menu'' app thats on the phone one of the things it reads is battery health and mine still reads good so does anyone condition read bad?
[EVO 4G General] z28marols1:
You are correct. The time frame is completely dependant on your exact situation. The trouble is the manner in which it will fail. On the stock kernel you are gaurunteed a gracefull failure where the battery just no longer holds a charge. When charging it in the manner this kernel does you have a much higher risk of the failure being pontentially dangerous and violent. Hence why the engineers who designed our phones did not incorperate this type of charging on the phone stock.
[EVO 4G General] aph:
Use Battery Monitor Widget

Use Battery Monitor Widget

Use Battery Monitor Widget

It can't be overstated. It automatically alerts you if the battery gets too hot. I haven't seen mine go above 104 F or so. Safe limits are around 120 F.
[EVO 4G General] cctaylor410:
I'm amazed at how people still believe that SBC can in no way damage your battery. Bottom line Lithium batteries are not meant to be held at 4.20v for extended periods of time. This is why you will not find one lithium based charger on the market that incorporates trickel charging, and I'm not talking just cell phones. But hey I don't care if you use them, its not my phone. Just don't try telling people they are safe and all you may have to do is buy a new battery in a year.
[EVO 4G General] u921333:
Wow this is still being discussed LOL

I thought it was found out that the SBC kernels was absolutely safe and they actually strengthen the battery from working them out. The old saying what dont explode your phone only makes it stronger??

Ok im just joking before I get my head bit off..... I believe MS and the EE guys are looking through stuff to come up with some kinda bump charge or something that is more efficient then stock hopefully it works out!
[EVO 4G General] gokuman56:
Have there been any recent issues with this now? Any more trickle charging problems?

Thanks
[EVO 4G General] aimbdd:
nope.... i have seen no more threads about problems.
[EVO 4G General] rbach30:
has anyone had problems when they didnt leave it on the charger that long?
[EVO 4G General] aimbdd:
no? why would that cause issues.. if you neever leave it on long there wont be any problems.
[EVO 4G General] rbach30:
wow good job...you got the point i was trying to make. I asked only if someone had a problem and they weren't leaving it on a long time
[EVO 4G General] Bloodykiller86:
Aslong as u don't charge it on a USB port on ur computer ull be fine, and if ur phone wont turn on anymore all u need to do is charge ur battery through a stand alone charger and it will be back too life
[EVO 4G General] aimbdd:
ahh misunderstood.
[EVO 4G General] NewZJ:
I leave mine on the charger without issue, up to 5 days once, yes 120 hrs
[EVO 4G General] Bigjim1488:
Wow necro to the Max
[EVO 4G General] BrianDigital:
Just did this with a heat gun at work with a sbc kernel, I applied heat to the back of a phone with stock and cheap ebay battery.

Both batteries with heat applied would turn off charging when being heated up the led would just blink orange.

Just food for thought if something is going to explode they will be heating up so why does the ops battery keep charging and not turn off till the temp drops?
[EVO 4G General] NewZJ:
my bad, I posted 14hrs after the previous post, forgot the new " after 12 hrs a thread is dead rule"
[EVO 4G General] Bigjim1488:
Gotta keep up with the times!
[EVO 4G General] Stankynugz:
I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but I tried my first sbc kernel last night because I didn't know how bad the risks are. But I left it on the charger all night (about 6 hrs) like usual, when I woke up my phone was sitting on the charger still, displaying that it had 77% battery. I was very confused and so I reflashed my old kernel and am running it now. However I am noticing that it is taking substantially longer to charge than previously. Could the tiamat sbc kernel have messed up my battery in that span of time?

Any response is appreciated

Droid incredible - CM7.0.3
[EVO 4G General] aimbdd:
lol no. A battery doesn't die that fast.

Did you fully charge and wipe battery stats after installing the sbc kernel? if not that sounds like your problem.

10char
[EVO 4G General] harryprk2x:
That does not look good. :eek:
[EVO 4G General] NewZJ:
Sbc only works if the phone is at 100%, any less and its still normal charge type.

Did you flash the kernel while the phone was plugged in?

It must be unplugged then replugged after boot for sbc to take effect also.

I think you were victim of the bug, your phone probably charged to full then because the bug was there it didn't trickle charge and because your phone can't sleep while plugged in it drained down to 77.

The slow charge now is only because your worried, everything is fine, chill
[EVO 4G General] mattykinsx:
Done with your obnoxious name calling?
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
Doesn't work like that, it's a chemical reaction causing it. Once it gets started it's exothermic so it creates it's own heat.

And it can get up to a few thousand degrees.
[EVO 4G General] hmsheen10:
I added this link to my thread in the Q & A section .

Go to my link (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=890448) and check it out everyone.
[EVO 4G General] :
He just said it was very hot so why would he pull the battery? I was kind of suspicious on those kernels.
[EVO 4G General] kd0axs:
I think you can make it 4 casualties. There are 2 different people with fried batteries in that thread on Android Central.
[EVO 4G General] nabbed:
No use trying to explain it to a Darwin Award candidate in training. Doubt he'd understand half the words you said.
[EVO 4G General] conflikt:
Lol +1
[EVO 4G General] Jfree3000:
I call bull****, 1st post here and it's about this kernel making your phone smoke.....sure.
[EVO 4G General] kd0axs:
I would be a little more suspicious of someone's first post, but there are other people reporting problems as well. This is the only one that's reporting smoke, but other than that it's pretty much the same as the other reports.

Not to mention....this is exactly what happens to batteries when you overcharge them.
[EVO 4G General] aimbdd:
It is. But that kernel does NOT over charge batteries.
[EVO 4G General] Compusmurf:
Careful here.

That kernel doesn't ever seem to go over 4.2V, correct, nor does the temp seem to go over the limit either.

This may be for one of several reasons.

1. The app for monitoring current/voltage is just a program and no guarantees without actually hooking it up to a meter to confirm the values that are displayed are correct.

2. The evo never powers from mains, it always pulls power from the battery. Which, of course may also skew the numbers.

IF this poster is REAL which hasn't been proven yet. (1st post, registered the same day, hasn't bothered to come back and post photos or any other sort of proof) then every dev should pull SBC immediately.

Many folks here didn't seem to understand that what they were testing was highly experimental and didn't follow the precautions, warnings, didn't monitor the voltage and temps, etc.
[EVO 4G General] deathsled:
I think a lot of us do and what is MORE amazing is that now that some of us are coming back with reports of batteries doing strange things so many people want to simply dismiss the idea that an SBC kernel could be the cause.
[EVO 4G General] conflikt:
If HTC wanted the battery to do this they would have done it. Nuff said.
[EVO 4G General] aimbdd:
Pictures or it didnt happen.
[EVO 4G General] xHausx:
Says who?
[EVO 4G General] kthejoker20:
I told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

i told you so

:d