yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] dwallersv:
Not so fast there, Roadrunner.

I was promised that 4G was coming to the Santa Cruz area "before the end of the year" by the Sprint rep that sold me the phone. I relied on that in making my decision to purchase.

Didn't happen (surprise, surprise :rolleyes:). An agent of Sprint made material representations to me that were untrue, and I relied on them. In law, that is legitimate "damages", and opens the possibility of a successful tort.

I have no idea how many people around the nation have had the same experience, but I'll bet it's many. Solid business ethics and sound customer satisfaction policies demand that Sprint supend these charges in areas they haven't rolled out 4G in yet. Customers shouldn't have to sue not to be ripped off.
[Epic 4G General] dwallersv:
This argument fails on the simple fact that even with the $10 surcharge, Sprint still charges additional fees to use their hotspot tether app.

If your theory made sense, they would simply charge every user of these phones the extra $10 (as they do), and include the tethering app, and use of it, at no charge.

Instead, they force everyone to pay the extra $10, and still charge for "official" tethering.

No, this is obviously just a money-grab. And a very strong argument that it is tied at the hip to 4G service -- Sprint offers a plethora of other Android phones that are just as capable and leading edge, sans the 4G. No $10 surcharge on these babies.
[Epic 4G General] dwallersv:
Aren't you such a civil, grown-up individual! :rolleyes:

As I've said in other posts, it is obvious this is a 4G fee. More settled caselaw than you can imagine deals with exactly this sort of thing -- charging customers for goods or services you then fail to deliver -- and it hews strongly in favor of the consumer.

As it should. Just as you can't enter into a contract to sell your freedom and be someone's slave -- legally bound by contract -- you can't write a contract for something and deliver nothing.

Doesn't matter how ignorant the other party is regarding what they can legally agree to. The law does protect the common individual from being grossly taken advantage of. Contracts are not without legal limits as to what can be bound by contract.

You may not like it, but that is, in fact, the law. And if you don't see the wisdom of these limits on ethical outliers, so be it, but you are in a tiny minority.

Surely you don't believe someone should be able to sign away their liberty for the rest of their lives, committing to be someone's slave, do you? Using argumentum ad absurdum to make the point...
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
With the exception of being told 4g will be in your area, and then having it not be, you still have 0 case, even if this is unequivocally a "4g charge". Sprint sold you a 4g capable phone and was upfront about the charges. There was no surprise for 95% of the people. For the other 5% that were told 4g is going up in your area, you're basing it on the ability of some Sprint peon to tell the future. Things happen. You have some right to be upset, but your area didn't have 4g when you bought it, and it's not like your phone will lose the ability to use 4g where it is available. By virtue of living in reality you had to realize that by buying a phone prior to 4g actually being up in your area that there was some risk it wouldn't be for quite some time.

Even if this is a "4g charge", they still aren't "promising" us anything in our hometowns, simply by charging that, nor are they "taking advantage" of anyone, in any way shape or form. If you feel this is a 4g fee, and you don't live in a 4g area, and you don't want to pay the fee, then don't get one of the qualifying phones. The 4g coverage area could be the 100 feet surrounding Sprint HQ. The coverage map is available, and our phone is capable. You had everything you need to make an informed decision.

I despise that you can't count on what Sprint says for anything, they literally wasted half my night just last night. (I was told I had my full upgrade credit after a primary line switch, so I went to best buy, waited forever, just to be told I only got the "half way" credit.) However, I have little sympathy for people who make buying choices based on what some person who has 9000 ever changing plans/phones to remember, along with having to separate rumor from fact. There are tools out there to find out info.

Also, though I don't see how the analogy you put forth is apt in any way, I don't see why a person shouldn't have the right to give up his rights. The laws of society would still apply, but I highly doubt it's illegal to say "I want to work for you for free and do everything you say".
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
You are failing to see his point that many of us (myself included) signed a contract with an added fee for which we were told was Unlimited 4G data. Regardless of what the fee is now known as or claims by Sprint to claim the charges are for there were a large number of people who signed a contract in which they were promised a service they are not being provided and have been afforded no reasonable opportunity to make use of. That is, in every way imaginable, the definition of a corporation abusing its consumers.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
In what sense are you "not being provided" unlimited 4g data?
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
The contract does not promise service. In fact, the subscriber agreement contains very clear language about this:

Sprint is not unique in this, no cellular provider makes any guarantees in writing about whether service will be available for a specific individual using a specific phone in a specific location. The 4G issue is simply a red herring. If you bought an Optimus S instead of an Epic 4G and went home to find no usable 3G or voice coverage from Sprint, you'd be in the exact same boat (ditto for any other combination of phone and carrier) and you won't have any grounds to sue then, either.

Instead, your recourse is to return the phone and void the contract within 30 days for almost a full refund (I believe there are some minor fees which are non-refundable but you get most of your money back).
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
In the sense that I do not have any 4g data service at all?
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
This post may come off as snarky but it isn't intended that way, I'm legitimately having trouble understanding the position you're coming from.

Did you know that 4G data service wasn't available in your area?

If so, why did you buy a 4G phone and what you believe to be a 4G data plan to begin with?

And if not, why didn't you return your phone within the 30 day trial period?
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
Because there is 4g service 30miles north of me and I live in the State capitol so when the salesman told me that it would be in my area within a few months I believed him and because a few months is longer than 30 days. Also, I did not buy a '4G' phone. I bought a phone that has a feature I cannot use. It also came with Sprint hotspot but I don't use that. And Sprint TV. I can opt into those things but I cannot opt into or out of 4G. I am actually leaving Sprint once my wife's contract is up in July (I'd rather not pay two ETFs) as a result of this fee and their handling of updates. I will be going to TMobile whose plan will actually be cheaper than what I pay now.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
Why did you believe him?

Edit: To clarify, you're making a speculative purchase and speculative purchases involve risk. If someone tells me to buy Sprint stock because I can make a profit and those profits don't materialize, I can't sue anyone because of it. So I'm trying to understand what this salesperson told you to make you believe that 1) you can pay this extra money for, in your perception, nothing and 2) you can give up your right to void the contract within 30 days.

Depending on what the salesperson said to you, you could very well be entitled to your money back. For example, if I were to pre-order something on Amazon, that's not speculative - that's something which is intended to be in stock. And if Amazon decides it's going to cancel the product, I am absolutely entitled to a refund.
[Epic 4G General] raylusk:
Unless you are giving up features or are receiving some kind of discount on tmobile you will not be paying less on monthly plans. Sorry but anyone can go on their website and see their plan costs and they simply are not cheaper than sprint.
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
I am giving up unecessary minutes. Downgrading to 750. My wife and I have used 500 of our 1400 minutes combined in the last 2 months (also combined). Sprint does not have a plan with fewer minutes and as such I am paying for a lot of talking time I don't use. I would rather pay tmobile the same money I pay sprint now and not feel like I am being charged for services I cannot use. In the past many of you have told people to vote with their wallets and I intend to do so.

For reference ray, I currently pay $157 a month to sprint (two 4g phones and one replacement plan) and it would be $140 at tmobile for what I would want.

Also, most of both of our familes are on tmobile so that will also cut down minute usage.

Sent from my ext4 Epic 4G running Bonsai4all 1.1.3!
[Epic 4G General] BeerChameleon:
Ya probaly it would be a little cheaper, however t-mobile service is garbage..

I mean there 3g is slower then my 1x on sprint (ok maybe a little faster but damn close.) also there phone service is also horrible, they are only slightly better then cricket, sprint is the way to go if you want fast 3g and 4g and a decent price with decent service, t-mobile is crap..
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
My speeds were actually better when I had my mt3g and the coverage was better as well. Also we are moving to an area that gets better tmobile coverage and has hspa+ (phoenix) but there is no 4g in the state at all. But most importantly I've felt like I'm being swindled by sprint since the start so for me I would rather give my money to a company I never felt cheated by.

Sent from my ext4 Epic 4G running Bonsai4all 1.1.3!
[Epic 4G General] austin420:
The thre phones on my plan may have only used 200 of the 1500 anytime minutes on our plan, but we used a combined 8300 anymobile minutes for free. Think about losing that feature going to tmobile.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
That's your right of course, and I'd be lying if I said I haven't been frequently pissed at Sprint.

However when push came to shove the service is good, and the plans are better, and I don't have any illusions about Tmobile/Verizon being a shining beacon of customer satisfaction, where their sales people are never mistaken on anything.
[Epic 4G General] hydrogenwv:
Assuming it is a '4g fee'...

Even if you don't have 4G in your area, you can still use 4G. Some of you are trying to say that you are paying for a service you can't use, but you CAN use it.... If you signed up for a service that isn't convenient for you to use, that's not an actionable claim, and it's hardly Sprint's fault.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
Yes, but you CAN go somewhere that does and you CAN get 4g with the phone. That's all they sold you. (And being only 30 mins away is better than most people, I'm betting.) You can also go places where there's no 3g, or no data at all. "Unlimited data" and "You can go to Saturn and still get 4g and a cell signal" are two very different things.

Ultimately this is the price we pay for "Walmarting" everything about our society. The trade off going from small local places to big national places is these places are often too big for their own good. The employees couldn't possibly know everything there is to know.* (and it doesn't help that some genius business person decided "I don't know" is tantamount to spitting on your customer, so they fill in the blanks with matter-of-fact sounding, incorrect, info.) So, with the cost savings comes the responsibility to do your own research, and take things sales people tell you with a grain of salt.

Edit: *And just for the record, I'm ok with this trade off, in case anyone is queuing up a "we voted with our money"/"that's capitalism" post. :) In a perfect world the 17 year old at Best Buy mobile would know everything and be 100% open about all the bad things with a phone, but this isn't the perfect world, and if you don't know where the 4g areas are, where they're going to be, and what phone you want, before you step foot into the store, then that's on you. (Harsh though that may seem)
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
I would have to drive 30 miles now for spotty 4g coverage. When I move in a few months I will have to drive to another state. By the way, that 30 miles generally takes about an hour or more because of how bad the traffic between there and here. Or when I move I will have to go to a different state. I don't really understand how that is just matter of just not being convenient...
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
We used 88. And 33 nighttime. And as I stated most of both of our families are on tmobile so we will be able to talk to them even longer since we won't have to use any minutes at all.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
It wouldn't matter if you'd have to go to the moon to get 4g, you knew where it was, you knew where it wasn't, and evidently you were planning on moving to an area where it was no where to be found, even if the coverage did work its way down to you as "sprint" "promised".

You bought it anyway. I really don't see what your beef is.
[Epic 4G General] kilmarac:
Personally, considering how much more my service could be, its not too bad. However, I am a fan of the "4g fee" being relative to where your service address is. i.e. If your zip code is greater than x miles from a 4g zone, then you shouldn't have to pay for the fee. On the other hand (assuming its possible) that also means your phone should be blocked from accessing the 4g service if you travel to a zone that has it.

Or maybe if thats even possible, it should just be a data add-on. "Congratulations, your phone is 4g capable. If you want to use it in a 4g zone, then you will need this package addon"

I would rather have the option. Im really on the fence about fighting it. On the one hand, $10/mo isnt that big of a deal. On the other hand, if its not fought now, then how many more $10/mo addons will we have to deal with in the future.

One big rule about getting something big you want from someone (and in sales) is to move them towards that goal in small easily accepted increments.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
Yeah, it would be nice, but the more I think about it the more I think that it isn't just crazy double talk with a wink that this isn't a "4g fee."

If you've ever tethered your 3g phone you know that 3g is actually a lot faster than it feels on the phone. On a phone like the HTC Hero you're waiting on the hero to process the data as much as the data. Between the faster render speeds and the larger screen it's not insane to think people with those devices are going to use more data, period. (If for no other reason than you could be half done reading an article while I'm waiting for it to finish loading and be off to the next thing.) The more pleasant the experience the more you'll do it.

Ultimately it's semantics though. It doesn't matter what it's called, it's $10 a month more for some phones than for others, and you can take it or walk. They don't need a reason to raise their prices.
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
I've said before that I was promised by the sprint representative that 4G coverage would be coming in a few months. So I knew where it was but I was promised where it would be. Also, I did not know I would be moving when I bought the phone. Moving was a recent decision and was made in order to be closer to my sick mother-in-law. "My" "beef" "is" "that" "Sprint" "via" "one" "of" "their" "employees" "made" "a" "promise" "to" "me" "that" "has" "been" "broken". Of course, you'll say that I should never believe anything a Rep tells me but it made sense. Portland has coverage. Seattle down through Tacoma has coverage. I live in the State capitol of Washington which is smack dab in the middle of those two areas. Why wouldn't coverage come here?

And again, I've also recently said that I intended to leave Sprint as my way of protesting so why should my 'beef' have any bearing. I've made my decision.

You make a lot of assumptions about people and how they operate. Did it ever occur to you that they might not be stupid?
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
You're the one that brought up moving, I'm just pointing out it moving makes this a completely moot issue. Sprint could have built a wimax tower on your roof the next day, you're moving. If you get better coverage in the new place with Tmobile, then that's one thing. If you're doing it on some notion of principal, then IMO that's silly, because they're all the same.

It's not just that you shouldn't "beleive" sales people. There is also a difference between an employee just being wrong about something, the company "breaking a promise", and a company/employee willingly deceiving people.

I feel your pain, and I would be pissed too, but **** happens.
[Epic 4G General] austin420:
your absolutely right. the grass is totally greener on the t-mo side of the fence.
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
At least in my case lol
[Epic 4G General] raylusk:
Fair enough. I may also leave sprint but it would be to verizon where I will pay more. It will be for one of their lte android phones. There will be a lot of factors that go into this decision but a big factor will be the fact that sprint only offers 2 high end phones and if you want one if those two phones to have a great screen it is the epic and we all know about the poor update history with samsung. Good luck.
[Epic 4G General] plapczyn:
Personally, I'm a big fan of tort reform. Perhaps we should add a "douchebag tax" for frivolous XDA threads...but again somebody will probably create a class action suit on behalf of douchebags.
[Epic 4G General] adamr240:
Actually, the 300 mb limit is for connection cards. There is no limit to roaming. If you roam a lot (voice or data) Sprint will send you a warning letter. If you continue, they can cancel your account.
[Epic 4G General] fury15:
ok i work as a tech support rep for sprint, the $10 premium data charge, in all the information i have on the sprint systems about it, does not one time mention that it is a charge for 4G service. since i cant really copy and paste the posting because i cannot post while at work i have to try to explain it from memory, the charge is described as a charge to cover the increased amounts of data that is being used by these devices. I have the EPIC and a coworker has an EVO, we have run them side by side with a HERO and and INTERCEPT while we did speed tests on all 4. i cannot remember the exact speeds off of the devices but the epic and evo were atleast 1.5 times faster at the speed tests as well as on loading videos... UMM yea idk what else i can think of right now...
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
Please do not revert to flaming.
[Epic 4G General] robl45:
I'm going to try and be nice, clearly it won't say 4g service because then they would get sued for charging people for something that they aren't providing and considering even where they claim they have 4g service like south florida from miami to west palm (what a joke that is), they really don't, they would be out of business from the lawsuits. but since only the 4g phones have this fee, what would you call it? if this ever makes it to court, sprint will lose easily, of course they will end up settling, lawyers will get all the money, but maybe just maybe sprint will get their heads out of their rear ends.
[Epic 4G General] robl45:
if you ever get it, I supposedly have it, its not within say 10 miles of me in any direction but according to sprint, south florida from miami to westpalm has 4g. not at any rate usable, even when I go to work on the highway, the 4g just goes in and out so its useless. worse, on chat they said they were still building it out which is BS.

with LTE on verizon and Tmobile service, you have 4g thats actually usable and faster than what sprint is calling 4g.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
You call it a premium data fee, which is what Sprint has called it from the start. I'm not suggesting your logic is wrong but in the context of this thread, the situation you're talking about is suing Sprint on the basis that they aren't delivering on the promise you think they made as opposed to the promise they actually made.

To put it another way, you could also call this a hi-res screen fee since only phones with 800x480 screens have this fee applied as well. And I'm sure if we spent a good deal of time digging around, I suspect we'd find other things we can call this fee, like an 800+Mhz ARM7 CPU fee or something equally silly.
[Epic 4G General] boominz28:
is the shift getting the 10 dollar charge?
[Epic 4G General] 063_XOBX:
It's a 4g phone so yep
[Epic 4G General] raylusk:
All sprint smartphones are getting the fee. It is no longer just for 4g phones.

http://newsroom.sprint.com/press_kits.cfm?presskit_id=21
[Epic 4G General] willmsbrg:
So much for the lawsuit~~ At least those with other smartphones currently active are grandpawed in just new phones activated after Jan 30. So at least my berry is okay, though I'm also using the epic with the fee..
[Epic 4G General] running_the_dream:
Wow now Sprint is beginning to resemble the other fargin icehole providers like Verizon and ATT with their crappy plans. The news doesn't really impact me directly since I'm already paying the premium fee. But to charge everyone else looking to purchase a smartphone that may not be 4g is some douchebaggery of the highest order. I'm appalled at Sprint.
[Epic 4G General] CapsLockKey:
Is this going to be 10 per phone if you are on a shared plan? If so, Big Red just got some consideration from me when my contracts are up.
[Epic 4G General] Dj21o:
When are we supposed to get 4g? I saw on the news feed that it might be 2012? Yikes. Just for one phone is an extra 120 dollars a year.. Sprint needs to get it together lol.

AT&T looks promising with their new lineup, even Verizon possibly.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
Finally, a link that will put this issue to rest. I am pretty positive I paid this for my 8330 berry when it came out, it is exactly as described, based on the likelihood of how much data you will use. With larger screens, etc, the 'superphones' make you more likely to use more data... 3g, 4g, whatever. I use way more w my epic than I did with the moment I had for a month, and WAY more than either berry I had. Its a fact. Price it out, I think unless you have a family of 12 all with phones, Sprint is still cheaper than VZ... so enjoy that. And if youre in a place where GSM isnt total crap (I live in the Seattle area) then good luck with that. Congrats, looks like your attempts to make lawyers rich is making the berry users who use a fraction of what we do pay the fee too. Its the cheapest thing around besides prepaid, for a phone of our caliber, and investing in building out the network, while still remaining cheaper, is not a big deal to me.
[Epic 4G General] Dj21o:
Did the math. Verizon is 5 dollars cheaper than sprint, just fyi.
[Epic 4G General] weav4444:
Sprint just changed its $70 dollar plan to $80 for all smart phones. There goes your 4g tax.
[Epic 4G General] blazinazn:
Another link:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2011/01/sprint_to_add_10_premium_data.html

Pretty whack if you ask me. Course I'm already gettin jobbed by the $10 fee but I feel for those people who activate a non 4G phone after the 30th.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
maybe theyre just warming the suckers who want a sprint iphone up for a raping... it will be the 4Jobs tax.
[Epic 4G General] blazinazn:
I really hope sprint doesn't try to get the crappy Iphone.
[Epic 4G General] illizit:
Just wondering how you were able to test this out considering verizon has no LTE phones (except one wireless card)? I live in Miami and while 4G coverage can be improved, it is usable. I drive in Kendall, downtown and Coral Gables and I constantly have 4G service.