yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] smooney3:
Hi guys. I've lurked around here for a while now. Sorry that my first post had to be in response to something so absurd.

I'd just like to echo the point that you didn't have to buy the phone in the first place. We were all aware of it well before a credit card was swiped. I know that I was reminded about it more than once during the transaction, not to mention that it's on the contract that I accepted the terms of prior to purchase.

No matter what the fee is for, we signed the contract and voluntarily paid it. If someone is to be blamed for the loss of money due to the fee, it's the customer himself for accepting the terms of the contract. The proper way to protest this would have been by not making the purchase in the first place, not by agreeing to pay it, then later deciding that you shouldn't have had to.
[Epic 4G General] bgreiwe:
I agree with you. Before I got this phone, I considered a non 4g phone. I decided that I liked the Epic and was willing to pay a little more even though I don't live in a 4g market. Verizon just went live here (OKC) and the speeds are awesome. When the release the new HTC LTE phone, I won't be switching because their prices are a lot higher, even with the $10 fee.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
I concur.

This idea of charging different amounts for a data plan depending on your device isn't anything new, either. Verizon has been doing this for some time now. They have a $9.99/mo data plan that is only available for feature phones. Smartphone customers have to pay either $15/mo with data cap or $29.99/mo unlimited. So they have a $5-20 tax on all smartphones and nobody has filed any lawsuits about that as far as I know.

I suspect that this lawsuit simply has to do with the "packaging" and I suspect that if it were successful, Sprint will simply re-structured their pricing such that their 450min/unlimited text plan was $39.99 and you would add a $30/mo data plan for 3G smartphones or a $40/mo data plan for 4G smartphones.
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
This is stupid and I hate anyone that participates in it automatically.
[Epic 4G General] gjmath01:
ok its ez for the people that have 4g in thier area to defend sprint..i had sprint air card a while back and sprint store wrote up a fake plan and i fought the charges for evr and delt with people from the ceo office for a year. so i kinda hated them but when i wanted to get a new cell phone i choose them because its the best price for what u get.but when i went to sign up i was blacklisted for filing a fcc claim.in whice the fcc got money from a sprint fine and told me it was taken care of lol...but anyway i just put it in my wifes name..stoy is they can be really shady and cheaters..im in new orleans and we dont have 4g i was told at the time from sprint ceo office that it would be here in nov of 2010.my friend has the instinct and uses the same i do on the internet and doesnt have a 10 dollar fee.it would not b so bad if they gave you something for that but they dont.i was jus in orlando 2weeks ago in the heart of 4g and it came on for 2mins and was never able to get it agian for the 5days i was there same thing for 5other people that were there..you can read online how all over the states that the 4g dont even work in thier citys.it was all a big ripoff to get people to buy the new thing and make them beleve that you got the most of everything for them for 10 more..i dont agree with it and already dealing with the same lady i have been dealing with for 4years now and she has told me a few that most dont kno. like that 10 fee is to help invest in the 4g system that they sold to wimax or whoever they are not actually for the added use on your phone..so in hindsite we bought into a 4g system
[Epic 4G General] nubsors:
No one forces you to buy those phones or agree to their services. If you don't want to pay for them then don't sign the contracts or end your service. Suing Sprint for something you knowingly agreed to is stupidity.
[Epic 4G General] lawsofpower48:
im suing sprint because i want to and have nothing better to do. if iget my money then i get it..if not, who cares... :) doesnt hurt to try...and if they raise the premiums, WHO CARES! ahahahahahahahaha.... i can care less what you people think....

true i accepted their terms and it was our decision to purchase this phone knowingly of the "premium data" charge... but i dont care once again... all these useless arguements of why we "shouldnt" or "should" sue them... JUST DO IT OR NOT and shutup
[Epic 4G General] LordLugard:
...neither did Sprint. Whether you sign a new contract and get a subsidy or buy an Epic at full price you're still dinged the $10 fee. Doesn't make sense.

At this stage the $10 fee hailing/whining is old. Either live with it or get around it or vote with your pockets.
[Epic 4G General] drewsg:
The super phone excuse is BS. There is no difference between the amount of data that can be consumed on a non 4G phone like a Transform, than an Epic 4G for say.

It is a 4G fee, plain and simple. We'll see in a week or so when the Evo Shift is announced and it's hit with the 4G tax despite being a non super phone.
[Epic 4G General] LordLugard:
Can we stop with this Sprint is cheaper than other carriers, even with their 4G fee myth? Minimum plan for an Evo or Epic is $79.99 ($69.99 + 10 premium fee) for Everything Plus 450 plan.

Many pals of mine have Samsung Vibrants and myTouch 3g/4g (basically any T-Mo phone) and so forth on Tmo's Even More Plus $59.99 plan, 500 min talk + unl text+ unl data plan, and on Simple Mobile as well.

Even Simple Mobile (a Tmobile MVNO) has an Unlimited Everything plan, talk+text+data for $60 per month. That's $20 less than Sprint, and oh, taxes included.
[Epic 4G General] srtpusher:
6 months later and people are still whining. It is not a 4G fee and the problem is with sales people who refer to it as such.

Careful what you wish for... No matter the outcome, The end result of this lawsuit is higher prices...
[Epic 4G General] lviv73:
When reps tell you 4G is coming october 11 and tells you that you only gotta pay 4G fee one time for nothing because in a month you will be paying it for 4G.And I ditch my Tmobile on that basis and 4G is not here and im still payin for it and gettin 2G speeds on Sprints 3G,and now reps tell me they have no idea when 4G is coming.

Someone should sue the sht outa these lliying bastards ,contract or not,you con someone into somethin that should be considered bad bussiness practice and illegal.

Now why cant I go back to Sprint store and say "Look its october 11 and no 4G,i want my money back"?October 11 was the selling point,its bad enough that I ditchet my highspees tmobile service,never got my october 11th 4G services but im also stuck paying for 4G that I never got!!Word,im in an thar lawsuit,and BIG THANX to OP for providing information on how to take action.
[Epic 4G General] lviv73:
So what happens if I dont want premium data what kinda data im gonna get then?lol
[Epic 4G General] iil:
Some people only pay $50.00 / month
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
What makes the Evo Shift a non super phone? It seems to hit all the super phone marks - 800x480 screen, ARM7 processor, and 512MB of RAM. It seems similar enough to the G2 which T-Mobile considers a super phone.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
I thought T-Mobile's $59.99 plan had a 200mb data cap.

In my area (Glendale, CA 91202), the T-Mobile plan you describe is $79.99, equal to Sprint's pricing. Verizon looks to be in the $85/mo range for an equivalent plan and AT&T has a 2GB data cap plus an exorbitant surcharge for tethering for some reason. So of the four nationwide carriers, Sprint is still the cheapest for an unlimited data plan (tying with T-Mobile if you buy an Evo or Epic).

I'm sure smaller or regional carriers may offer cheaper plans but to be fair, Sprint is a large national carrier and in competition with other large national carriers and in that context, they do offer the cheapest plan.
[Epic 4G General] crabjoe:
Sprint didn't spot anyone $500 for the Epic or Evo either. On the other hand, Internet companies do spot people cash for signing contracts with them. My cable company is giving me $10/mo off for Internet, and $30/mo off for phone service for a total of $40/mo off for the next 2 years. That's well over $500. I've also seen Fios and Comcast offer $150 or $200 off for signing up for 2 years.

What Sprint is doing by subsidizing the cost of their phone (They might not actually lose a penny since we're comparing to MSRP, not what Sprint is paying for the phones) is a way for them to lock everyone into a 2 year contract. Believe me, they're not losing any money by doing such.
[Epic 4G General] LordLugard:
Pls read my reply carefully. The plan is called Even More Plus, and starts at $59.99 (500mins, unl txt, unl data). No longer heavily advertised online but available in stores. No contract, bring your own phone.

Ofcourse store reps want their commissions and aren't wont to offer that to you upfront or even tell you about it. They want you in a contract.

http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/11/16/t-mobile-keeping-even-more-plus-around-but-not-online/

I know folks still signing up for them but you have to be insistent with the store reps.

And no, Sprint doesn't offer the cheapest plan. Simple Mobile beats them at $60 for Unlimited Everything and they are a T-Mobile MVNO.
[Epic 4G General] iil:
Sprint is no different. Many are receiving well over $500.00 in discounts over the two years of their contract.
[Epic 4G General] iil:
May be wrong but I believe sprint eprp is the same.

You can't really compare plan price. You have to compare cost of phone plus monthly plan price over the duration you keep the phone.

For instance, Verizon tends to heavily subsidize their phones but have higher montly plans. Lower cost up front for the customer but they may end up paying more over the life of a contract.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
Ah, good tip about the Plus plans.

But this is apples and oranges, no? Comparing a contract-based plan with a subsidized phone purchase to a non-contract plan with no phone subsidy, I mean? In other words, Sprint's plan is priced to account for the fact that you get a subsidy on your phone. To really be an apples to apples comparison, you'd need to figure out if Sprint has a bring-your-own-phone plan and if so, how much it would cost (I have no idea if they have such a thing or how much it would cost).

But suppose we considered a 2 year contract with Sprint with the Evo 4G vs. spending 2 years on Simple Mobile with a Desire HD (the Desire HD is newer and this forum is for the Epic but I wanted to get phones that matched up as close as possible - there really is no GSM Android phone that is equivalent to the Epic 4G, everything either lacks the keyboard or has a smaller screen).

A 2-year contract with Sprint with the Evo 4G is $199.99 + 24 x $79.99 or $2118.76.

2 years with Simple Mobile is 24 x $60 and an unlocked HTC Desire HD at Expansys is $734.99 is $2174.99.

I'd call that pretty much a push, maybe with the edge towards Simple Mobile because the Desire HD is a newer phone with some better specs. I suppose you could take a risk on Ebay to get the phone for less (I chose Expansys because they were listed as an authorized retailer on Simple Mobile's site and had the widest selection of unlocked phones). Of course, and there's whatever price you choose to put on your time that you'd have to spend dealing with a faulty phone or what not - does Simple Mobile take care of warranty replacements for you if you buy from their authorized dealers (legit question, I'm not trying to be a snarky here).

I get that everyone's mileage may vary but personally, I see a fairly substantive difference between a plan where I am responsible for getting my own phone and potentially having to deal with a vendor or retailer myself to get a warranty replacement and always going to my own pocket for upgrades vs. having a contract where I can get a subsidy on a phone including whatever deals they may offer (I, for example, got an extra $150 off the second Epic for my wife plus my wife was eligible for a discount on the plan) and having periodic upgrades subsidized as well.

But yes, I will concede that in terms of absolute dollars and ignoring some factors that are important to me (but may not be important to everyone), Simple Mobile (and by extension, T-Mobile's Even More Plus) plans are cheaper.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
EPRP is $59.99 + $10 surcharge for Evo 4G and Epic 4G. The subsidy on both these phones looks to be $250 so that effectively cancels out the $10/mo surcharge so over 24 months, the numbers look like:

$249.99 + 24 x $69.99 = $1928.79 for Sprint + Epic 4G

24 x $60 = $1440 for Simple Mobile. As long as you find a phone for less than 488.79, you come out ahead. MSRP for Epic 4G is, I believe, 499.99 so technically, to get a phone of equivalent value, you do end up paying slightly more for Simple Mobile.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
Well, no kidding it's a way to lock people into contracts, I don't see how that's relevant.

Charter offered me their top service for the cost of the mid tier that I had for 12 months. The catch was that at the end of 12 months, it would go up to full price if you didn't change back.

At the end of that 12 months did I pitch a fit about how they're suddenly charging me $60 more dollars a month for the same service I was getting? Did I take to google to find a class action lawsuit? No. 'Cause I agreed to that.

I never said "Sprint lost money" but YOU are saving money on the phone by agreeing to the contract and the stipulations that lay within.

The Epic could be $234,928 and a brick unless you signed up for Sprint, you're still agreeing to the cost of the phone and service, or not.
[Epic 4G General] robl45:
i will join this for the sole reason that we were promised 4g, i was told specifically i would have 4g in my area and there isn't 4g within 5 miles or more in anydirection. worse, the 4g that is here is unusable at best. if sprint wants to play marketing games, they can use their money, not mine.
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
Well that is stupid. Its basically the same as Sprint Sero, which you can sign up for right now for without knowing a single sprint employee because the VP of marketing or whatever gave his details out for all to use. 69.99 and 500 mins unlimited everything else. I am paying 40 dollars right now plus the ten dollar 4g fee, and that is a lot cheaper than anywhere else.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
Yeah if were talking discounts, 25% off, so currently paying 52+10, plus whatever extras. Oh I forgot my second line that just came up for upgrade (still accrues months)that is on seasonal hold because I don't need two atm, that's another 8 bux. All I remember is when I considered the competition, gsm was out, as I use the phone function,and its useless around here (just outside seattle)... so after looking at primo phones frm all carriers, even if I considered gsm, sprint always came out cheaper, even if only a little. And that was for the 99$ everything plan and its equals (truly unlimited data, etc).

So who can really say they use the same data they would on a berry or even a tiny screen android? A flat ten dollars more is not a big deal, but people can't get over sprint sales telling them its for 4g just to shut them up... bad move having them say that, but they've changed that... now just saying its for high usage devices, regardless of 3g or 4g. Makes sense, especially with what can be done if rooted, which is discouraged but accepted as a given that x amount of people will do it... go whine on a politics site about why 10 dollars per month is that big of a deal. If the other carriers were truly cheaper, you would just leave, and not ***** hoping for an even better deal.
[Epic 4G General] kenvan19:
I have heard people make this claim before but I have never actually seen any evidence of it. Care to elaborate?
[Epic 4G General] TheDub:
Think of Sprints data as "gas" now that flip phone over their, its like a cobalt.. it's not going to use much gas so your "gas" bill is cheaper.

Then you have the midrange slow Smartphones such as Blackberries and Windows Mobile devices.. these are going to use more "gas" but they still squeak by with only slightly more gas used then their flip phone cousins. Think of V6 Malibu vs a Cobalt or something, the V6 (midrange smartphone) uses more gas, but only a little.

Then you have those V8 monsters. The epic and the evo. These things are loaded under the hood. They have huge screens and super powerful processors. They download games, they tether with laptops, they load webpages almost as fast as a normal computer, not to mention streaming content.

Top it off they are running android which is already a very data heavy smartphone OS. The mileage on these puppies blow, your "gas" bill just went up.

What is even more sad is everyone who would be involved

SIGNED A CONTRACT AGREEING TO ALL OF THIS!

If people didn't agree to the terms which included the 10 fee they could have said No, had everyone said no you could bet something different might have happened, but most NORMAL human beings who would care enough to look into this understand that phones like the epic and evo use way more "gas" then a Blackberry or midrange slow android phone. I use way more data on my epic then I did on my Moment and I'm sure that goes the same for almost any one of us who had both.

It's a private corporation, they can charge whatever the heck they want for using the Epic on their network, you even signed agreeing to this. This will likely get shot down and I hope sprint doesn't have to pay a dime out over this.
[Epic 4G General] AndrewZorn:
...no one is denying that we signed the contract. I think the big deal is the way 4G is unfairly applied to people Sprint believes do not deserve 4G, because their surroundings are not profitable. I should not be paying for people to gloat about their 4G in California for 4yrs before getting it myself.

Wrong/unfair? Yes. Lawsuit worthy? Maybe not, I haven't decided yet.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
To be fair, the allegation is that Sprint is not allowed to charge Epic and Evo customers an additional data fee on top of a plan that already offers unlimited data. If this is the case, then the "you signed a contract" point is moot because the courts would essentially rule these contracts unenforceable. The claim isn't that Sprint slipped these charges in, it's that it was not lawful of Sprint to have the surcharge in the first place.

In all likelihood, this will not happen. In the best case, plaintiffs will get, as previously mentioned, a few dollars for their trouble and Sprint will likely have to add a disclaimer or perhaps change the name and/or description of the premium data add-on.
[Epic 4G General] iil:
Are you kidding? Sprint is adding 4G as fast as they can, in fact they are running out of money doing it. Do you expect them to cover the entire nation with the snap of the fingers? They have to start somewhere. Do you have any idea how complicated it is to gain approval to add new cell sites to cover an entire city? Quite frankly, I am baffled by your comment. Do you really think sprint does not think that you don't deserve 4G?
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
No, it's not. 4G has nothing to do with it. The claim that Scott Bursor is investigating is that Sprint is double-charging for data - first with a plan that includes unlimited data and then an additional "premium data" surcharge for their super phones.

The only place "4G" appears is in the name of the two phones in question.
[Epic 4G General] metalblaster:
wish we could sue samsung as well... they made a promise, the promise was a reason why i purchased this phone, thus i think there should be some legality on this. It would be like selling a toaster saying it could microwave, and making it impossible to do so.
[Epic 4G General] lviv73:
Youre right,companies now a days take no responsibility for false claims and that needs to change.If a companie promised a feature/update by certain date and we didnt receive it then that should give a consumer full right to return that item(within resonable time,say 3-4 months) and get a 100 percent refund.

Companies treat coustumers like they dont really need them anymore,i remember back in 80's sht wasnt like that,and its because people dont take action..
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
And Sprint will explain that these new phones are capable of accessing their new faster speed 4g network and that charging extra for this access is no different then an internet company charging extra for a faster download and upload speed. I get unlimited data on Verizon FIOS whether I get the 15/5 service of the 30/30 service I have now. So I am entitled to sue verizon for not TRULY giving me unlimited data for a lesser plan because I am capable of downloading faster on their network?
[Epic 4G General] LordLugard:
Sorry, but Verizon doesn't "heavily subsidize their phones" anymore or less than any other carrier. They just have more expensive plans period, which they can rightfully justify due to their superior coverage.

*As an aside, BesyBuy Mobile usually has the best prices on subsidized phones, even better than the carriers in most cases.
[Epic 4G General] LordLugard:
Good points by the way. :p :o :)
[Epic 4G General] mc-fine:
Its a class action law suit. All they do is benefit the lawyers. They get enough ppl to sign, act outraged on your behalf, Sprint says I don't have time for this and settles, lawyer fees will be half the settlement, the remainder get divided up between those who signed and you get your $2.75 check from Sprint in the mail.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
Actually, if they said this, then they'd probably lose because they are telling you the premium data charge is for something completely contrary to what it actually is. That would make their description for the premium data charge a classic case of false advertising.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
So we are talking an apples to oranges comparison here then.

FYI, taxes likely do apply to the phone purchase, even from Craigslist. Most states require you to pay a use tax for such things and generally, the only states that don't are ones where sales taxes aren't charged to begin with so either taxes apply to the phone or they don't (I'm not saying this because it significantly alters the balance of the equation, I'm only pointing this out so folks reading this don't get audited).

Right, but we're talking about Simple Mobile, not T-Mobile. And warranty replacements would need to go through the manufacturer and not through T-Mobile or Simple Mobile, right?

A few more questions - if one's employer has negotiated a discount with T-Mobile, would Simple Mobile honor that discount or does one need to go directly to T-Mobile? And if so, does that discount apply to non-contract plans? I ask because my wife currently gets a 27% discount on Sprint and I've still got a couple of days to switch back to T-Mobile if I decide to do so.

Also, what kind of promotions apply to full price purchases as opposed to contract subsidized purchases? Last time I was at a T-Mobile store, they had a BOGO on the MT4G but is this for contract customers or no?
[Epic 4G General] MikeyLee:
Thanks for sharing! I'm trying to get onto a site and download a timy 4 mb file and my Sprint service is so bad I cant even complete the download. Shame on you Sprint for charging for **** services.
[Epic 4G General] AndrewZorn:
I am not kidding, even a kind-hearted company would not prioritize 4G in low-income or low-interest areas. It's a fact. I believe these people should not be paying for the luxury that the 4G cities enjoy.

They are trying to make money. Do you really think the fact that 4G exists only in largely-populated areas is a coincidence? Like I said before, I'm totally okay with this... but I shouldn't be paying for 4G if 4G isn't in my area.