yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
Then don't. No one is making you get an Epic or Evo, or be a sprint customer.

They are charging more because they feel like people on these devices will average more. They're probably right too. The fact that we already had "unlimited" data in the everything plans is completely irrelevant. This $10 charge didn't make the unlimited plans we all already agreed to any less unlimited. They're allowed to price however they want for future deals we can accept, or decline, so long as there's nothing shady about it.

If you think this is a 4g charge, and don't live in an area where you'll get $10 worth, then DON'T BUY IT. It's not our god given right to have an Epic 4g.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
Why would a low-income household in a non-4G market even be buying an Epic or Evo to begin with? The LG Optimus S is free and comes without the premium data plan, a much better choice for a low-income family.

The thing to understand is that a surcharge is just a different form of a discount. Suppose Sprint priced their unlimited data plan at $79.99 and offered a $10/mo discount to anyone who didn't buy their most expensive phones. Mathematically, it's the same exact situation - the only difference is how it's marketed.

Sprint's model allows you to not pay the extra $10/mo if you don't live in a 4G market. T-Mobile, for example, charges everyone the same amount whether you live in a market with HSPDA or EDGE. Ditto for Verizon, you get billed the same whether you have EV-DO or 1x.

So even if we were to assume that the $10 premium data plan is just a mislabeled 4G fee (and that has yet to be ruled on by a court, btw - Sprint's official claim remains that its a superphone surcharge), you're in no different a situation than the T-Mobile customer living in an area with only EDGE coverage or a Verizon customer living in an area with only 1x coverage. You're paying extra for network features you can't use. But Sprint's model at least gives you the option to opt out of that.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
Well, kind of. You can't opt out of 4g/+$10 for those phones, you can just choose not to buy one of them.

(I'm sure that's what you meant, but I've seen lots of, "I heard people can opt out, so I bought a Epic/Evo, agreed to the $10 over and over, but when I called Sprint to opt out like I think some guy on the internet said he did, they said no to me!" type complaining, so just to squash any confusion.)
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
Yes, you're correct and thanks, that's a good point.
[Epic 4G General] iil:
In that case, you should be probably paying even more. It is cheaper for sprint to service customers in large cities, why should these people have to subsidize the higher costs sprint has for serving people living in areas like yours?

If you look at the 4g buildout, it actually began in smaller cities before moving to larger metropolitan areas.
[Epic 4G General] ungovernable1977:
This really boils down to 'I dont have 4g in my area, boo hoo." Its not about the phones, or the actual 10$ charge for the high data use phones, (even if, like myself, you rarely get 4g, but still acknowledge that you use a lot via 3g). You keep coming back to '4g charge', and along with this retarded law firm, you are going to be really bummed when the judge doesnt take the statement of your local sprint salesperson as an 'expert witness', because they make all the rules and know everything, right?... jeez... I ALMOST miss the Froyo whining... This is just getting dumb, youre taking Tmos rates for a phone YOU ALREADY OWNED and comparing it to a subsidized new phone, with the option for TEP, upgrade discounts, etc... cmon... little bit of a stretch would you not say? Grasping at straws??? Besides, is any GSM service anywhere in the states as good as sprint/vzw??? I heard a rumor of NJ??? Awesome...
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
And for the record, I agree. In most other forms this would be applauded, but for some reason here it's evil and stupid.

Basically instead of just raising prices, they're charging certain people that opt into it who's phones are more likely to be resource hogs.

As I implied a few pages back to the "Time warner doesn't charge more if I have a $10000 computer or a Pentium II" people are thinking about this backward. No Time warner doesn't charge more for a better computer, the point is they don't charge less to people that use less because their computer is an old pile either. They just charge everyone like they have the Epic, in computer form.

Your computer might only be able to surf newsgroups and mostly text websites, completely exploding on youtube, let alone torrents. You'll still pay the same, and when prices go up they go up. That's NOT true on Sprint. Old phones still qualify for old plans/pricing.
[Epic 4G General] aikonix:
If anyone actually reads the damn terms and agreements, the very first ****ing thing u sign for when u start service with sprint, you sign to agree that you cannot sue sprint in anyway.. u are told that your are paying an extra $10 when u buy the damn phone so if u don't like it boohoo.. I know the fee contradicts in many ways but sprint is still by far the cheapest by far and u agreed in the very beginning that u accept to never Sue sprint and to agree that they can change their policy at anytimes and they can make changes to ur plans/services, go read it.. and if u still don't wanna pay that 10 bux then go get yourself a damn iPhone and quit complaining..

And honestly if everyone ACTUALLY DID take the time to read the terms and agreements on everything they sign... the economy and business world would come to a screeching halt.
[Epic 4G General] gTen:
Well you prefer how T-Mobile and Comcast do it? they throttle you till no tomorrow >.>..your pick..

Just think of it as a "Resort Fee" and call it a day..."Resort Fees" usually include a few things which you generally may or may not use but are required to pay them one way or the other...
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
I'm not sure that comment was meant for me.
[Epic 4G General] othan1:
Every time this comes up, it devolves to the same arguments. This company vs. that company.

None of this has anything to do with the lawsuit.

Did you agree to a contract to pay the charge, being provided information through official Sprint documentation or through a Sprint representative, and happily accept your phone even though other, non-fee phones were available?

If you're using an Epic or Evo, the answer is, "Yes."

I knew we didn't have 4G in San Diego but I agreed to pay the charge because it was the best phone available and the fee, whether we believe it is for 4G or not, was explained to me as an enhanced device fee.

Do I believe the fee was for anything other than building up new 4G towers and paying royalties on the service provided in other areas? No. Does it bother me? A tiny fraction of a bit. But, legally, I don't see any evidence that anyone was told this was a 4G fee that you had to pay regardless of location.

You find some internal documentation that states that and there's a case. But as it is, like someone else above me stated, you're gonna make a lot of lawyers happy and rich while you, who is stuck in a contract with Sprint, will get to pay more for your service when Sprint has to compensate for the lawyer fees.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
Actually, it doesn't say that. A contract is a relationship entered into by two parties. If one party doesn't hold up their end of the contract, the other party is allowed to sue to recoup damages. A contract may direct that arbitration be performed first, but it CANNOT take away the right of a party to sue the other for damages. Such a contract would be unlawful and therefore, under the eyes of the law, not be a contract.

What you're thinking of is probably an indemnity clause. This means that you won't hold Sprint liable for damages. ie, suppose you're driving and talking on the phone at the same time and get into a car accident. You can't sue Sprint because the phone played a role in the crash. Or support you're trying to negotiate a big sale but you lose reception on your phone and by the time you're connected again, you lost the sale. You can't sue Sprint for the lost sale.

The other factor you need to be aware of is that if the terms of the contract are unlawful, the contract is void. You cannot, for example, enter into a contract to sell your kidney because the exchange of human body parts for money is illegal in this country. So it doesn't matter if you're giving your brother your kidney and in return, you want him to fix your TV. If your brother doesn't fix your TV after you give him your kidney, you can't sue him for breach of the verbal contract (though your brother would be a ****, though, but it's perfectly legal to be a ****).

The allegation that this lawyer is making is that the terms of Sprint's contract with regards to this Premium Data Plan are unlawful. If this is found to be true and the judge rules in the plaintiff's favor, then anyone who signed the contract who participates in the class action will be entitled to damages. But whether one signs the contract of their own volition has no bearing on whether the terms of the contract are lawful or not.

And again, I agree that the lawsuit is just a cash grab and it remains to be seen whether it ever makes to trial BUT simply saying "you signed the contract" is missing the point as badly as talking about 4G coverage.
[Epic 4G General] hydrogenwv:
Let's assume sprint loses...

It'll be years before it's settled and the arguments might show they are in the wrong, maybe (IANAL)... However, by the time this is settled (or judged) they'll fix the problem... by increasing the data plan prices by $10... Would that make you feel better? You'll (probably)still re-sign if it's still the cheapest data plan.
[Epic 4G General] skyheli:
Keep this $10 crap stuff argument going..... Sprint may decide to repeal it and go ahead with a tiered plan. That $10 charge will seem like nothing........
[Epic 4G General] herzzreh:
The charge

Few points up front and then my rant...

Do I agree with this charge? Fawk no!

Do I think the excuse for the charge is retarded? Fawk yeah! I used as much data with the Hero as I do with the Evo/Epic. Sprint's excuse is gay.

Did I agree to the charge when I signed the contract? Yes.

I don't get the people who AGREE to the charge and then start *****ing and moaning that they don't want to pay it. NO ONE forced you to get the damn charge. You say that you were forced into the charge by getting Evo/Epic. No you weren't. NO ONE forced you to get one of those phones. It was your own, self-serving, selfish desire to get those phones and nothing else. Market is just taking advantage of your own, self-serving, selfish desires and the market is proven right - you will pay the $10 to satisfy your self-serving, selfish desire. Adam Smith and that fool Marx don't lie (ok Marx was full of ****).

This is sort of like the elections: if you didn't vote for the president, senator or whoever, then you have no say. Don't ***** after the fact if you didn't vote, you had your chance to voice your opinion. Same goes for this retarded fee. If you are not getting the Evo/Epic because of the fee, ***** away, but, if you got one of those phones, STFU... you had your choice and you made your choice.
[Epic 4G General] AndrewZorn:
This thread sure is full of appeal to authority. All I see is "LOL THEN DONT GET IT IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT!!!1" I even specifically said I don't know if this is "lawsuit-worthy", but I do think it is unfair... but yes, I still agreed to it, and I still pay for it! I guess some people have no problem believing whatever some big entity has to say, and in this case, even siding with them in the event of disagreement.
[Epic 4G General] ydoucare:
Yeah, it costs more to serve rural areas and smaller cities, but the problem is that they're NOT SERVICING these areas and won't for quite some time. There is zero logic in paying for a service that isn't available to you, period. I won't even have a sniff of 4G for at least 2 years. Sprint is just taking advantage of an opportunity to squeeze more cash out of their customers, hence the lawsuit. If 4G is going to cost extra, then we should have a choice whether or not to pay for it. That is all.
[Epic 4G General] austin420:
your mistaking two diffrenc parts of the contract. the non liability clause is comletely diffrent from the dispute resolution clause.

here is what your thinking of...

this is the dispute resolutin clause, and not, i did not capitalize the last 2 parts, thats how it is in the printed contract, so you will see it.

note it even specifically stops class action lawsuits too.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
The dispute resolution clause is part of the contract. The lawsuit isn't about a contract dispute, it is challenging the lawfulness of the contract. Again, I want to be clear that I don't believe the contract to be unlawful but clearly some people do.

If the contract is unlawful, then the contract - dispute resolution clause included - is void.
[Epic 4G General] austin420:
sprints contract is like a ducks butthole.

watertight.
[Epic 4G General] muyoso:
That is like me signing up for Verizon FIOS 50/50 plan and then suing them because I only have a Pentium 2 with 12mb of ram and cant fully utilize their service. If you can't use 4g, then it was pretty effing stupid to buy a 4g phone that costs you more.
[Epic 4G General] h2g2:
I don't disagree. BUT anyone who thinks it's not still gets to have their day in court. The case may get summarily dismissed if the plaintiff fails to present a compelling claim but they still get grandstand (which is probably all this lawyer wants to do anyway).
[Epic 4G General] Leviuqse:
although i disagree with the lawsuit..your logic is wrong

is more like signing up for verizon FIOS and they give you a modem which is capable of 50 dl 50 up, but such service is not available in your area yet and your area only haves 10 dl 10 up...but because you have a "premium" modem..they will charge you the premium fee

anyways..

no one forced anyone to sign a contract..and that is why i have my epic with boostmobile
[Epic 4G General] :
That about sums it up.

The big problem has been that there is no clear stance on what the fee is for. Fair enough that no one at sprint stores, best buy, etc can be expected to say the same thing as someone across the country asked the same question... I mean this isn't college taught information they use.

The bottom line is that the fee is a passing of the buck from clearwire. Look through the news in early December about Sprint trying to negotiate their way out of the fee they are paying to clearwire for EACH 4g device they sell per month. It was roughly $5 per month, per 4g device they had on their network. Granted, they were making additional money charging us $10, but whatever, as stated before, WE agreed to it when we signed up. Now Sprints position with clearwire was that just because a customer has a 4g phone, doesn't mean they are actually using 4g or are able to, therefor Spring shouldn't have to pay for those customers.... SOUND FAMILIAR?

At the end of the day, we still agreed to pay the fee for using the 4g phone. This class action suit will only result in bad news for customers. At the absolute BEST, we can hope for the fee to go away and the 'unlimited plan' to go up marginally. Realistically, if this goes through the fee will go away, data will likely go tiered, or increase just slightly less than $10, and we get $0.78 each in restitution while the lawyers walk off with a multi million dollar settlement.

Unfortunately this is what happens when people buy first and think about it later... that and kids that don't understand actions and consequences and think they can argue their way out of anything that they think is unfair simply because it doesn't suit them.
[Epic 4G General] herzzreh:
You all are missing one big ****ing point! You don't have to take the modem if you don't want to!
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
No, it's more like having a choice between the 10Mbps and the 50Mbps modem which costs more, and then, full well knowing you can only get the 10Mbps service, insisting on the 50Mbps modem, and then complaining that you don't get 50Mbps.
[Epic 4G General] crabjoe:
You need to rethink what you're saying. 1st, just because the contracts says you can't sue, doesn't mean you can't. It happens over and over again, where companies get sued, even though the contract says you can't. Look at how often the car companies get sued. In their contracts, it says you have the right to arbitration. 2nd, I didn't sign anything and there's probably thousands of others. I signed up over the phone and every phone I've gotten has just been mailed to me.
[Epic 4G General] crabjoe:
I would have rather had them raise the price of their service by $10 then have them stick me with "$10 Premium" fee just because a phone is 4G capable.

My guess is that the reason they didn't just raise the price, or will do it in the future, is because they could lose tens of thousands of customer due a clause in the contract that says you can get out without the ETF. With the way their doing it now, it only affects people that are upgrading to these specific phones. But thinking about it now, I'm thinking a Premier customer can get out of their contract, when using the 1 year upgrade, due to the fee.
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
[Epic 4G General] raylusk:
When you activated your phone you electronically signed by agreeing to sprints terms of service. Electronic signatures are legally valid. So yes you signed a contract.
[Epic 4G General] crabjoe:
Why do you think tiered pricing is such a bad thing? Verizon offers tiered pricing, but they still offer their unlimited plan.

Still, Sprint doing tiered pricing doesn't make sense due to their excess capacity. Data usage on Sprint is nothing compared to ATT or Verizon Wireless. Plus lower pricing is the only thing Sprint has going for itself. If they started to charge what the #1 and #2 providers are, they would lose big time. They can no longer claim to be the only 4G provider, their phone selecting won't be any better then anyone else within a few months, and their coverage (in my area) pretty much sucks.

I know in my area, Verizon's coverage is best! When on a boat in the Chesapeake Bay, if you don't have Verizon, you'll get some spotty signals here and there, with all the other providers, and that's it. When I'm on the road or even sitting in my house, my phone is always jumping from Sprint to roam on Verizon.

Hmmmm .... Maybe I'm feeling this way because I'm looking to make a jump back to Big Red. I don't really save anything with Sprint because I can get 20% off on Verizon now. Let's see ... Epic or Evo on Sprint is $80, I can get a phone with pretty much the same specs on Verizon for $90 minus 20%. Looks like Verizon's price might now be better for me. Oh and that WiMax thing... Doesn't matter to me because there's no Wimax where I live and paying $10 extra for features on a phone I already own is a crock on Sprint!
[Epic 4G General] galaxywhat?:
Wow seriously guys you agreed stop being babies. Teired data here I come.... :(
[Epic 4G General] mikeschevelle:
SO I bought the phone and now have to pay a monthly rental fee?

There are so many explanations for what the charge is for because there is no concrete answer.

Its a joke
[Epic 4G General] Dj21o:
Thank god sprint has the cheapest and the best data plan there is. I'll pay the 10 bucks for that. :)
[Epic 4G General] herzzreh:
Yes you do, but this is 100% your fault.
[Epic 4G General] Quis89:
Fyi....you got ALL of that before on phones that don't require that $10 4g tax. Aside from "unlimited roaming" which you don't get at all. Youre only allowed 300 mb of roaming data. Your "facts" are off....
[Epic 4G General] herzzreh:
ok.. people, stop *****ing and whining. Let's recap...

Yes, the fee is stupid, retarded, gay, useless, ripoff... call it whatever you want, but it probably fits the fee.

No, Sprint IS NOT forcing you to pay the fee. You can easily opt out of it.

No one forced you to start paying the damn fee, so STFU.

People who defend Sprint and their fee... you get no love and no hugs, the fee is stupid and is a sneaky excuse to make more money to cover costs. ****.. paying $25 to check a bag with an airline is more justifiable with this (don't get me started on people who whine about this as well without realizing how much it costs to get a plane, say form NY to LA).
[Epic 4G General] vita10gy:
I don't think anyone is "defending" Sprint, so much as reason, and capitalism. There's nothing "sneaky" about it. They're charging more for things people will pay more for, and if everyone opted out, it would go away, but since millions of people flocked to the Epic and Evo, it must not be that outrageous a price increase.

I really don't see this as any different than the price of a Snickers bar increasing over time. I don't "like" it, it is what it is. Mars can charge whatever they want for a snickers, and I can decide how much it's worth to me and buy it or not.

Edit: And like bag checking fees, it's a way so that the people that don't aren't paying. People hate feeling nickled and dimed, no doubt, but the places that don't charge bag check fees, delivery fees, etc just roll that into the cost of their main item. So you're subsidizing the woman who had to bring 9 suitcases for a week in Vegas even if you have just your carry on, or you're paying most of the delivery charge, even if you're eating in at the Pizza place.
[Epic 4G General] dwallersv:
I have to strongly disagree with this.

While the Epic 4G is among the most capable, high-performing smartphones out there, it by no means is a platform that offers anything particularly unique and capable that other platform do not, other than 4G.

I came from an OmniaII, and 7 years of prior Windows Mobile smart phones. While I love the Epic, Android, etc., and like it better than my OmniaII for a varety of reasons, none of them are anything extraordinary that the Epic can do that the high-end WM phones can't. An app available on Android that isn't available on WM doesn't count. That's a pedestrian, ordinary, difference. Might as well say the iPhone is superior by the same argument.

The fact that I pay this $10 surcharge only on Sprint 4G phones belies Sprint's claim that this is a "smartphone" cost, when there are essentially exactly the same phones available without the 4G and sprint doesn't charge the extra $10.

I understand the free market, and have no problem paying for value recieved. I don't chafe at the $10 surcharge for 4G but for one issue: The goddamn service isn't available in my area!!! Sprint should not be charging me this fee until I have the ability to use it. That's Sprint's problem, not mine. Charging me that fee on the prospective possibility that I might actually use 4G briefly when traveling somewhere far from home, on business or holiday, is not reasonable.

I'm calling Sprint today to complain, and demand they reimburse me for these past charges, and remove the charge from my bill until they implement 4G support in the Monterey Bay Area. IF they refuse, I'll be letting them know I'm joining this class-action suit.

In a very real way, Sprint is simply stealing from me. They're charging for a service they aren't delivering in any practical, usable sense.
[Epic 4G General] Whosdaman:
Since I'm going into law, I know a little about how this will go...

This probably won't go to trial and will most likely be settled out of court due to Sprint not wanting the PR part of this. I have contacted the attorney in order to find out more info and I'm waiting for his call back.