yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
For those who don't know me here, I previously owned the MT4G. I experienced major issues with the phone and exchanged it a total of FOUR times, meaning I had in my possession (not at once) a total of five MT4Gs. The first four phones had incredibly bad creaking buttons, the fifth one had perfect buttons but a washed out display. I refused to continue going the route of MT4G swapping, so they suggested me going with a different phone, and I chose the G2. The G2 they sent me arrived last week, brand new in a prestine unopened box. The hinge was perfect, not too tight and definitely not loose like it is now. Each day it got a little bit looser, and now it's just ridiculously loose to the point that it opens no matter how I hold it.

So, maybe they're shipping me this refurb because I've already gone through so many exchanges, but two of their top phones have so many issues that it just makes me sick. With all the issues with the G2, MT4G and Vibrant, I'm shocked I haven't heard about any lawsuits against TMO. Or at the very least, I think TMO should be proactive about this and admit that there are problems with these phones, and that they should be more than willing to do whatever it takes to make sure the customer is happy. I have to say I was treated very well during all those MT4G exchanges, and I feel they did everything they could to make sure I was a happy customer. But, I'm still not thrilled being told that I need to accept a refurb for a G2 that was technically brand new and just one week old.
[G2 and Desire Z General] BootloopedMillennials:
This.

My hinge is somewhat loose. It doesn't bother me at all, it doesn't affect daily use. I notice people on this forum and others are too caught up on this non-issue imo. Honestly if your one of those people where a loose hinge is gonna bother you, you might as well get another phone. No point in getting a replacement G2 for a loose hinge when its most likely gonna be the same.
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
It is an issue because some people have received a G2 that has no problems whatsoever with the hinge and others have received a G2 with a loose hinge (like myself). I'd be totally fine with the phone if everyone's phone was the same, but knowing that some have a normal/strong hinge (not loose) and mine is super loose makes me feel like I'm not getting exactly an issue-free phone. No way in hell was this phone designed to be loose like that. It shouldn't open up the second I pick it up off the table, but no matter how I pick it up or hold it the screen moves around or opens up. It's just not right. If it stayed closed until I gave it some force to actually open up, I'd be totally fine with it. Once it's open the looseness doesn't bother me one bit, but I can't have a phone that refuses to stay closed when it should be closed.
[G2 and Desire Z General] ianmcquinn:
As I understand it (so take this with a grain of salt), this isn't illegal (at least in the US) and is actually standard practice for many companies (to use refurbished stock for warranty replacements and new ones if that stock has been depleted). If you have ever filed a warranty claim on a defective laptop for example, odds are you will receive a refurbished one in replacement (or if they are repairing it by replacing the motherboard, it'll most likely be with a refurbished board). In fact most warranties (probably all) clearly state replacements may either be new or refurbished. This is probably why you haven't heard about any lawsuits. Add to this the fact that this particular issue is very subjective (as you've probably noticed just by how dismissive many of the users are on the forum with regards to the issue) and making a legal case becomes even tougher. Also, unless T-Mobile or HTC has officially stated this to be an actual defect (and not just an offhand comment of a customer support rep), they can simply say it was working as designed (or at least within the spec'ed tolerances). While it all definitely feels unfair in some situations, it's unfortunately just how it is with US consumer protection laws. They have no obligation to replace your unit with a new one, only a working one. I believe if the replacement they send you is defective as well, you can get a refund for the phone (T-Mobile's policy).

That being said, if you are upset about it, I agree that you should try talking to T-Mobile again. Make a big fuss about it to them. More times that not, they would rather appease the customer than lose one or face bad press. With your phone being only a week old, maybe you can ask if they would do something like issue you a refund and then place another order for a new phone?
[G2 and Desire Z General] digital_exhaust:
This is the answer. Call, complain, don't take no for an answer, and you will get a new in the box phone. Really, you will.

Now, that being said (again), a new phone is not going to make you happy with the G2, it's not, no matter how badly you want it too, it's just not. The new phone will have a loose hinge, this is not a new issue. And it's not just the "G2" either. Here is a thread asking the same questions about the Desire Z, you can add that to all the threads here about the G2's supposed hinge issues.

The overall feel of the phone, and specifically the hinge are so subjective that it's impossible to make a judgment of what's right and wrong based on posts on an internet board. Get a new phone sent out, see what happens and if your not happy, then you really should consider a different phone. Honestly, if your G2 is only a week old, your still in the remorse period, so you might consider a different phone now, before it's too late.

Just my opinion.... that's all.
[G2 and Desire Z General] LGS1231:
how does it open up when you pick it off the table..?How do you pick up your phone?
[G2 and Desire Z General] redpoint73:
The G2 and the Desire Z are the exact same phone/hardware, aside from the radio bands, so that's no surprise. But I completely agree that the hinge issue is completely overblown. The great majority of Vision owners have ones that work exactly as designed. The "issue" is just a result of internet forum chatter. There might be a small percentage of handsets that have an especially loose, defective hinge (as would be the case with any manufactured device with mechanical parts). But my feeling is most people are not in that category.
[G2 and Desire Z General] ianmcquinn:
I agree. My guess is that HTC selected a spring with a very wide tolerance for the Z-hinge (the tighter the tolerance on the part, the more expensive it is for them). They simply ensured that the min tolerance met with their usability requirements. This means what most are stating to be loose is probably their working as designed. Because the tolerance is wide though, there are also lots of people with tighter hinges as well. This leads to comparisons by users and the perception that the hinge is "defective" for the looser ones.

This doesn't mean you should just settle if you are unhappy with it though, since you are the one paying for it. Try and get a new phone. If it doesn't feel better, then you may be out of luck (as in the G2 isn't the phone for you). Or you could keep trying new ones until you get one with a stronger spring in it, but as you've already experienced, it's not a fun process (and potentially very time-consuming). If you like everything about it otherwise, then you might want to try one of the other workarounds people have had success with on the forum. I actually believed mine to be on the loose side for my tastes (it would open slightly and re-close in my pocket, causing the display to constantly turn on accidentally throughout the day and drain my battery), so I took it apart to stretch out the spring. It is significantly better for me now, and while I believe determining a better spring to use would improve it even more, I'm happy enough with it now that I don't need to spend more time on it (at least until my spring degrades since I probably stretched it out of spec).
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
Got my replacement. It was alone by itself in a plain white box (similar to how I received the replacement MT4Gs), and I can pretty much say it's NOT a refurb but a new one. Or, they did a damn good job make it look totally new. It had all the plastic protective coverings on it and just looked mint. Everything about it looks fantastic, just as a NEW one should. But, I learned immediately that the hinge is just as loose as my previous one, and seems to actually be a little bit looser. So between the G2 and the MT4Gs I went through, this is my SEVENTH phone since the release date of the MT4G.

Now I'm not sure what I want to do here. There are currently only two phones in the TMO lineup that I would consider owning right now, the MT4G and G2, and both phones have had their issues with me. I've actually thought about just cancelling my service (hopefully not getting hit with an early termination fee for all my troubles), asking for a refund, and going with a different carrier. As I said before, these two phones are TMO's bread & butter right now, or I should say they're the best they have to offer. You would think these would be free of issues, or at the very least would have been tested more thoroughly as these issues/complaints could've been resolved before becoming available for purchase.

Do I dare ask for another replacement in hopes of getting a G2 that can at least stay closed? Do I just suck it up and keep it? Or do I try going with a phone from a different carrier?

Very bummed about this. :(

Well, I cannot pick it up like it's a normal phone, because if I did the damn thing would flop out of my hands as the display would shoot away from the keyboard. I pick it up carefully with lots of concentration so that the display doesn't open up on its own.
[G2 and Desire Z General] digital_exhaust:
Only if you want another one with a hinge that is almost identical to the ones you've had. I don't know what else to say, they're manufactured that way, and warrantying them out isn't going to change that. Either get used to it as I and many others have, or cancel your account and get a different phone that's going to have it's own set of problems.

Every single phone I have owned since my Moto Dynatac has had one problem or another, and there is no reason to expect anything different here. Disposable technology..... if they built a perfect phone, why would any of us ever upgrade?
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
You definitely make good points there, and I don't think exchanging it over & over is going to produce better results. I learned that already with all the MT4Gs I replaced (five total). What bothers me is that I spent a lot of money on a great phone, but because of the hinge being so loose it kind of spoils the moment. I'm reminded of it every single time I touch the phone.
[G2 and Desire Z General] digital_exhaust:
I know it's not going to help, but I think if you actually give it a chance, you'll get used to it. I have, and honestly, if the hinge was any tighter than it was, I'm not so sure I'd be happy about it. It's easy to open with my thumb, and I have adjusted to handling the phone in a manner that keeps it from opening unintentionally.

Anyhow, that's all I got.... sorry you've had such a hard time.
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
Looks like I'm going to keep my current G2 & ship back the replacment, as that one is in worse shape. Hope that's fine with TMO. Anyone think I'd have to call TMO first and let them know about that, so they're fully aware that they're getting the replacement rather than the original/new one?
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
Oh, and what exactly is this "fix" that they speak of in this article?

http://androidcommunity.com/g2-loose-hinge-officially-corrected-20101227/
[G2 and Desire Z General] digital_exhaust:
Yes, call them and let them know that your returning the replacement and keeping the original.

As far as the link in your other post is concerned, that's likely nothing more than a CS rep telling the caller what he wanted to hear. Time will tell, but I personally think that nothing will come of that. If HTC was going to "fix" the hinge issue, it would have been done a long time ago.
[G2 and Desire Z General] dadewy:
FWIW I've handled about half a dozen of these phones (and own one) and they all felt about the same. I can't help wondering if it's a "in the eye of the beholder" thing. Some people will just notice/care more.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Ibleedandroid:
I think the phone works the way it was meant to . It's a gravity hinge
[G2 and Desire Z General] RavenFB:
Mine is precisely as tight as I want it. It holds together nicely, and requires only a little push to open. My friend's, on the other hand, is now super loose. Then again, he insisted on "flipping" it open when he first got it, so I get the feeling he may have made that bed himself. I, for one, love this phone. I think the design is spot-on.

HTC Vision/T-Mobile G2 w/Cyanogenmod 6.1.1&G2 Fast kernel.
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
I just finished chatting online with a TMO rep about sending them the replacement G2 I received yesterday (that has a looser hinge than my current one), and here are some interesting tid bits from that conversation. Please note this is all verbatim as it was communicating through an online chat session.

My response was the following:

Her response was the following:

Take that for what it's worth, but that tells me that neither TMO or HTC plan on doing anything with the hinge as it's not an issue to them.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Ninj:
I've been reading through all hinge topics with interest, and I decided to ask this question I'm having from the beginning:

Why are all these posts mixing two very different questions in one same threads?

There are two topics (or i'm stupid):

1. Some have normal hinges working as intended but don't like it. They must change model (get a Desire HD or Milestone 2)

2. Some have defective hinges and must get a replacement hardware which will probably be working normally.

But it's a meeesss here having these two topics in one discussion, and makes a non-sense.

So now, what's the normal behaviour? I believe the hinges are not designed to hold the phone firmly enough so that it never opens alone. They are designed to be quiet loose. Loose enough so that you can operate it with one finger, and firm enough so that you can text with the phone in a vertical position (not a screen-down horizontal position). To the one having different habits with their phone, the Desire Z is NOT your killer phone. The XPeria Mini Pro is great, but too small screen for me, it's NOT my iller phone, and I won't blame Sony for that design.

What's a defective hinge? If the screen opens alone while the phone is lightly tilted or even lying on a table, so this is a problem of course. Get it fixed. Also, if it's so loose that taking it in your hands often results in pushing the screen enough so that it opens, it's too loose for a normal use. It was not intended that way.

I now this thread read "how loose is your hinge?" so basically the answers here are not out of purpose, but still it makes nonsense discussions IMAO.
[G2 and Desire Z General] ianmcquinn:
Well, actually the same topic. The idea was to get an idea of where the line between normal and defective was. Without any official statement on what HTC had intended the Z-hinge to feel like, the only way to really get an idea was to see what the majority of phones out there were like. So not really two separate topics at all.
[G2 and Desire Z General] ianmcquinn:
Yeah, that falls more in line with what I said earlier about HTC designing to a minimal tolerance on the Z-hinge's spring and that the first rep you talked to who said it was a "known defect" was just an offhand comment and not an official stance.

And about your comment on the cases, I think the rep was saying that by having a case on the screen (making it heavier), if you hold the phone upside down while open, the extra weight on the screen causes it to fall back down (I believe this has been one of the biggest complaints about the hinge---for example, some people can't text while lay down in bed holding the phone over their head). The rep is saying to try removing the case and see if the same thing happens (if not, the hinge is probably working as designed and the added weight is what is screwing it up).
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
That's kind of what I thought as well, but after talking to them over the phone and via web chat I can't assume I know what they're trying to communicate with me. It just seemed like she was contradicting herself, so I had to get clarification from her about it. I just received the HTC branded black hard case and I like it a lot. It does have some drawbacks, but it does seem to keep my phone closed better when it's just lying in my hands instead of opening so easily on its own. I plan on doing a video review of it sometime soon.
[G2 and Desire Z General] JohnHenrySDM:
If Goldilocks found not three but instead ten thousand bowls of porridge, she'd still to this day be trying to find the one that was just right.
[G2 and Desire Z General] califrag:
Figured I would chime in here.. I know they "officially" fixed the hinge or whatever, I just got my G2, ordered January 2011 and the hinge is not loose at all.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Beagan:
if you look on the forum you can find threads regarding magnet installations and all it seems fairly easy and good !! doesn't effect ur gps and compass!
[G2 and Desire Z General] Beagan:
how do you know the fixed it? you could have just got a lucky one like many ppl have
[G2 and Desire Z General] califrag:
Yeah actually I spoke too soon... mine has started showing the loose hinge signs... Guess it just took some time to loosen up. I guess they didnt really fix it then
[G2 and Desire Z General] Beagan:
yeah i like my Desire z, i went into my local carrier retail store and she said it was normal, it was the way the hinge was built, even if it hangs a little i don't see why people are getting so annoyed about it. of course their will be some that are genuinely defected but mines grand and it does hang a little bit
[G2 and Desire Z General] dustrho:
One thing that concerns me is what will happen to the phone if it's dropped out of your hands. I'm not talking about scratching it, damaging the screen, etc etc. I'm talking about what happens when that display flips open because of the loose hinge. Has that happened to anyone here?
[G2 and Desire Z General] digital_exhaust:
I've dropped mine twice, and my boss dropped it once. It didn't flip open and it's fine.

EDIT... and my hinge is what I assume most would consider rater loose. I did at first.
[G2 and Desire Z General] MassimoM2:
could you tell me your part#?
[G2 and Desire Z General] califrag:
sorry for the false alarm my hinge actually loosened up over the past couple of days..
[G2 and Desire Z General] digital_exhaust:
I've had both the 00 and 01 part numbers, and believe it or not, the 01 had a looser hinge than the 00 models I've had.

Don't know if that's what you were curious about or not, but regardless....
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] aarif_ziaee:
hi there

i have a query regarding the secondary camera....

i wana just know whether there is any way (apart from the FFC mod)

for video calling

a mirror which can be put on our vibrant through a clip which can be used as a secondary camera for video chat???

or any other solution apart from the FFC from Galaxy i9000

where can i get these

http://androiiid.com/ffc-hack-who-needs-another-cam-when-mirrors-exist
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Thegreatheed:
If you read the article it states that those mirrors are a concept, but may be made available to purchase. So, to answer your question, you can't get them now.
[Fascinate General] hbc.ciccone:
Any one else getting the error message when trying to download anything from jt1134 option in Rom Manage?, I'm running super clean v.9
[Fascinate General] imnuts:
ROM Manager has been giving several people several issues recently. Best advice would be to try again later, or restart the phone and try again.
[Fascinate General] onemotodroid:
same isssues - Reboot your phone
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kusotare:
I'm asking on behalf of a friend of mine who doesnt actually have a computer so he cant post here himself to ask. I'm a vibrant/N1/G1 user myself, so i'm familiar with the aspects here: he has a slide, has the split-screen/ribbon problem on opening/closing the keyboard. He managed to get a warranty replacement from TMO, but he's super paranoid about having to pay the damages fee because he has CM loaded on it instead of the stock firmware.

Bottom line, he wants to brick it just to be sure before he sends it back (he already has the replacement phone). What is the simplest way (that I could explain to him over the phone) to hard brick the phone?

Quick and dirty is all I really need to help him get the job done, all help much appreciated!
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fermunky:
If he can brick it, then he can flash the factory ROM that is available to bring it back to unrooted stated. Why not just do that?
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Febby:
-sigh- I guess he can just try to follow the S-OFF instructions to where it says not 2 power off, take out battery- disconnect phone... do the oppsite of what it says not to do? Just saying though... why not just do what Fermunky said?
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kusotare:
Problem is that he lives in virginia and I live in colorado. I rooted and customized his phone when I was out there visiting because he's completely inept at this kind of stuff, so I was just looking for a simpler solution than to try and walk him through a reflash over the phone. Plus, apparently what he told the TMO reps was that he got an OTA update and it bricked him, which is the only way (he said) that they'd do a warranty exchange.
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fermunky:
Well, I guess your short answer is No, there is no "quick" way. Whether you try to brick it or not, either way will require some attempt at flashing "something", but to just do it in a completely wrong way. Maybe by connecting to a PC and using clever ADB/Shell commands could also do it, but not entirely sure.
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] RollerCoasting:
Couldn't you flash the radio for say, a Droid X or any CDMA radio?

I know you can brick CDMA phones by flashing GSM radios.

And yay Colorado ;D
[myTouch 3G Slide Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rolfd:
I'm going to have to close this as it's discussing warranty fraud.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] diablo009:
I am facing a rather "cruel" issue with my phone of late.

I am unable to calibrate my battery ever since I installed 2.2.1 based ROM. It goes upto 98% properly, and then within a minute or two shows me the "charged" message. When I pull the charger plug out, it immediately falls back to 98%.

I tried charging fully with phone on, then off, wiping battery stats using both sgs tools and CWM console more than half a dozen times till now, but am still facing this issue.

I even tried changing the battery, but even then am facing the issue. Also tried the total discharge and total charge method.

Could anyone help me please.

Note: I tried like 2 different 2.2.1 based ROMs.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ninjuh:
in another thread someone mentioned it being a bug with all 2.2.1 roms. I'm dealing with it too. Best thing to do is use a battery theme that doesn't show the percentage that way its not bugging you. 1-2% means nothing.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] diablo009:
Oh. Thank you ninjuh. So I think I would go back to 2.2 based ROM and wait till 2.2.1 is fully fixed.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mcord11758:
Known issue 2.2.1. i would expect a fix eventually

Sent from me