yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] joedoe:
I guess that flashing to stock returns the ability to use the "three buttons" trick to access the Download Mode in case it gets lost by flashing a new ROM.

I think all chiefs should put a note on their ROMs saying if they contain bootloaders or not.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] opcow:
No, flashing to stock is how people lose the button combo (although, if they used the proper package they wouldn't).
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Jirv311:
Have you ever flashed a ROM over another ROM and seen how many files get left behind? I tried that method once and got nothing but issue after issue. FC's, an alarm that sounded even when no alarm was set, and various other performance issues. I personally won't do it again.

Flashing to stock and then flashing a new ROM is not like formatting, installing Vista, formatting then installing Windows 7. It takes like 2 minutes to flash to stock and another 2 minutes to Master Clear. I copy the CWM update.zip and my new ROM zip to SD Card and flash away. I typically always have my own framework-res files I include in any new ROM I flash and even after all that including setting up my widgets, I'm done in less than an hour.

I don't like to take chances. This is why I always start with a clean slate. I still can't understand how people are bricking their phone by flashing stock. I personally use the One-click Odin that I believe DG provided here and it's always been clean.

For what it's worth, your own process is your own process. I couldn't care less how you do it and I don't expect anyone to care how I do it. But if you're having issues with a ROM and the chef recommended flashing to stock first (as DG does), I suggest doing that first before cluttering up posts about FC's. I'm not calling anyone out at all just stating an opinion.

This is actually a very good discussion. :)
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] opcow:
A bad flash or a bad ROM with a broken install script. If it leaves stuff behind then why would you think it won't leave eclair stuff behind?

You see this is a fundamental misunderstanding of where the process went wrong. Your error, if it was a bad install, happened when you did the CWM install. To presume that it couldn't have happened if the stock ROM was on the phone when you installed is wrong. If anything, installing 2.2 on top of 2.1 is more likely to cause problems than installing one 2.2 over another one (for example, if for some reason the 2.1 modem driver got left behind).

If you had lots of FC's and other application errors such as you described then I would bet money that you accidentally restored system data. If not, then the install just went bad. Whatever the reason, had you reinstalled it probably would have cleared it up.

I'm done with all of my apps installed in 10 minutes.

Re: the analogy. The original analogy of installing an old copy of windows over a new one was made. My analogy was more accurate. You are, in fact, formatting and deleting stuff then installing one operation system and then immediately repeating the process and installing another.

Flashing ROMs is taking chances. Relying on Windows drivers, a USB connection , your AC power, etc. while flashing boot.bin and sbl.bin is taking a chance.

I don't care how you do it and obviously you know how to do it competently. I too can odin flash all day with confidence (and a jig). But don't characterize what you're doing as the safe way. It's not safer and is almost always unnecessary. All you have to do is read the ridiculous numbers of posts by people who bricked after using odin first and compare those to the number who had a working download mode combo and bricked doing a CWM flash to see that. When you claim it to be the safe way then people who are less competent and not well informed will believe you. Those people are far more likely to make a mistake. Making a mistake in CWM that bricks you is a hell of a lot harder to do than bricking with odin.

"Chef's" recommend it for the same reason others do. It's just always been recommended. And, btw, the fact that they put together a ROM doesn't mean they are well informed about this issue. I saw a post today by one who posted a kernel in a non-CWM flashable zip because he said, "I am not good with packaging kernels but it is the zimage." That's not a knock on him. He's perfectly competent at packaging up ROMs with good features, but, like any of us, he doesn't know everything.

There may have been a reason to recommend flashing to stock at one time, but the way things work now there isn't.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Jirv311:
I never restore system data.

I never said my way was the "safer" way. Just what I do. Again, I don't care what you or anybody else does as I don't expect anyone to care what I do when I flash. The question was asked why people flash to stock and why some don't. I was stating the way I do it.

My point is, if you're testing a series of Beta ROMs, as I am, then in my eyes, it's better to start from scratch/stock then to just flash over the top of something.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mac11700:
You make a very convincing argument for not flashing back to stock...but...sometimes it is the only way to correct the issues some folks are having.

Not all have the 1008 builds...just as not all have the 3 button recovery with their phones..just all roms don't have the files that take away the 3 button recovery...as what happened to you.

I am not a noob when it comes to flashing..and I can say there are times folks have to flash it back to stock to correct what is going on on the phone.There are times no amount of re-flashing the same rom..or a different rom is going to correct all of the issues a person may or may not have,and to say otherwise is misleading at best. Are there risk involved...sure there are...just as with doing anything else with these phones...In a perfect world..we would never have to worry about doing anything with them...but this isn't a perfect world...nor are these phones a perfect device.There are enough irregularities with them with all of the various builds and coming from 3 different plants to make the following the reality of all of this..and that is...no 2 phones will react the same

all the time

..The only real advise thing that can be offered to anyone is to try it and see what works best for your phone. MikeyMike01 made a very simple to understand flow chart that is what should be followed..

Mac
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] opcow:
1008 isn't the problem. It's 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012 (and I would guess 11??) But if you use the package with the proper boot.bin and sbl.bin that 's not a problem. Most of the people who are trying to be safe because they are new at this are just told to one-click to stock. Regardless of your 3-button combo status though, a bad flash of boot.bin or sbl.bin is likely to render that point moot.

If it is true that sometimes flashing back to stock is the only way (which I'm willing to believe is possible, though I haven't seen any evidence that it's so) then that would be the only time to do it--when all else fails.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mac11700:
Well..dg's thread for the 1 click to stock for odin says if someone can't do a 3 button recovery to use the other one..so...saying it isn't necessary or needed still isn't 100% correct. Look..I've seen issues with 4 different builds...a ...1008...1009...1010 and including my current 1012..all could go into recovery..and I've rooted and flashed to stock with the

correct

odin enough on the 1009 and 1012 now to know if it works well with mine..I also know..people don't always read the instructions too...and download the wrong version and even put the wrong thing in the regular full version.I've also seen enough stock phones that were in need to being flashed back to stock and master cleared to clear up some issues they had straight from the factory...

Bottom line is people choose what they want to do..and the developers tell folks what to do because it works..not because they are lazy or don't know what they are doing. Not everybody is flashing several new roms every day or week..and doing this correctly

lessens

s (not removes) the chance of a bad install.**** will happen to the best of us,eventually at some point ..and no one here can see the future clear enough to say otherwise. It's not a perfect world we live in....but if a person follows the instructions and has researched what they are doing..and understands what their phone can or can not do...then in all likelihood the results will be as planned.

Mac
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] opcow:
I'm not sure what you're saying here. If you are talking about fixing the combo, then that's different issue. It's still iffy for new people. I've seen multiple posts from people who were flashing for the express purpose of fixing the button combo and ended up bricking. If you are going to do a lot of flashing though, I would say it's a good idea to have a way to get into download or recovery in case something goes wrong. It isn't necessary in order to insure a clean ROM installation. Do it once if you know what you're doing and then never again unless nothing else works.

So you've been through 4 phones? They all died?

Stating that it lessens the chance of a bad install doesn't make it so. Even done correctly you are flashing twice, which would, all else being equal, double the chance of a bad flash, but since there are more potential points of failure (as I've described in previous posts) and since a boot.bin or sbl.bin failure could mean a hard brick, you are not lessening the chance of bad things happening. And on top of that, as I've said, flashing over stock is no less failure prone than flashing over some other froyo ROM. You gain nothing by doing so. I think I've laid out some pretty clear logic for my side of the argument and I've sited the evidence anyone can see if they read these forums (specifically, all the "help, odin bricked my phone" vs all the non-existent "I didn't flash stock first and my phone got bricked" posts). I don't doubt that there are cases where someone had FC issues and such cleared up by going back to stock and then reflashing the ROM, but these issues may just as well have been solved by a simple reinstall. And those kinds of issuess are minor compared to what usually happens when an odin flash fails.

The only things coming from the flash stock side of the argument are anecdotes about some flash that went bad one time or somebody's favorite ROM dude said so. The latter is called argument from authority and both are fallacies.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jerry b:
I agree, and I really appreciate everyone's constructive input.

This whole discussion is really helping me a lot. :)
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] newter55:
Oddly enough, you would be hard pressed to find rom developers outside of the captivate forum (read i9000 and vibrant) actually recommending this method. In fact, most in the i9000 forums, which is where virtually all of our roms are derived from, are finally offering no wipe full installs that do not even format the data partition, thereby eliminating the need to reinstall apps and data. The suggestion is made to format data if problems occur, or if you are coming from another rom altogether.

I have been here long enough to remember when every problem was solved by "flash to stock and master clear" and it was an easy answer for prolems that users were having.

Unfortunately, the fts/mc vs straight cwm rom install argument brings out the same type of emotions that best rom discussions do and really provide little benefit to the community. People want to believe that their method is "right" and the truth is there is nothing inherently wrong with either as long as they understand the process and the risks associated. There is little chance that flashing a rom will do more damage to your phone than cause force closes or boot loops, both of which are likely to be remedied by a reflash or flashing another rom. That said, if flashing to stock gives one peace of mind, by all means flash to stock. It is after all your device.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] GGXtreme:
For Captivates (like mine) that came factory-fresh with a different bootloader (build 1010 with stock JH7), there is no 'correct' odin. Attempting to flash to stock is an instant brick. The only way to get to stock JH7 (not JF6) is a longer, more complex method that only increases the chances of something going wrong and you ending up with a worse brick.

To each his/her own though. If you know that flashing to stock is a working option on your phone, or that it's the way to fix an issue you're having, then it's the logical thing to do. Otherwise, it might be considered unnecessary and even riskier than trying to do things sans the extra step.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] smokestack76:
You all crack me up. Well other than Mac. But we talk about you all.. Well opcow more than others :rolleyes:
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] newter55:
cmon smoke...you are not helping keep this thread going with comments like that
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] opcow:
Grats on your little clique. I guess we can assume Mac is a member.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jerry b:
Whoa! A whole lotta typing been happening while I was away! :)

Just to emphasise where I'm coming from - I don't have the technical skills to comfortably deal with a brick situation, so I'm looking for ways to minimise that risk.

I understand that, by flashing straight from ROM A to ROM B (without passing stock) I'm doing something that might give me fc's / other issues. But I'm happy to accept that risk - I find a 'ROM misbehaviour' scenario much less scary than a 'bricked my phone' scenario. And if necessary, I would flash stock if it looked like it would get me out of a hole.

Having said that I don't want to constrain the debate, apart from asking for it to rooted in technical discussion rather than statistical speculation. Even if the stats are out there somewhere, I don't think they'd do much more than tell us which approach is in the majority right now.

What I'm really hoping is for people to break down the nuts & bolts of the two processes & help understand the points of risk/weakness, regardless of which approach is currently in the majority or minority.

But thanks again for the debate. It's helping me a lot.
[Captivate Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] zelendel:
Ok guys. Flashing Stock first is turning into a personal pref. If you can flash from rom a to rom b without any issues then great for you, if you flash stock first to make sure no issues, cool. I am gonna close this up as it is turning into nothing more then my way is better then yours.
[Touch Pro, Fuze General] snsd:
Hi: I just bought a used HTC AT&T Fuze. It works pretty well but there seems to be something whacky with the external keyboard. When I press the FN key, instead of allowing me to type numbers and symbols, it simply turns the caps lock on. It seems like the keyboard is functioning like a full QWERTY PC keyboard instead of a custom one for the phone. For example, when I type along the top row, instead of it typing the various symbols across the top of the keyboard, it types the numbers 1, 2, 3... When I use the CAPS lock, it inputs a TAB - which is exactly where the tab key is on a regular keyboard. (BTW, the FN key is exactly where the CAPS lock key is on a regular keyboard...) Anybody have any ideas what might be going on? I've tried a hard reset twice now - with no success.

SOLVED: Just updated the firmware and all is working perfectly now.

Thanks,

Dave
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ewitkows:
Ok so I installed rom manager and downloaded the M9 rom and put it in the root of my sdcard. I select install rom and it reboots in recover . The options I have are

reboot system

reinstall packages

delete all user data

delete cache data

format internal sd

I tried selecting reinstall packages but it gets about 10% and says E:failed to verify whole file signature

Installation aborted.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] oka1:
It looks like you are not rooted or you lost your update folder (the rooting folder)

You should see if the phone is rooted on the app menu a superuser icon if you do not see that then it is not rooted. When the phone is correctly rooted in recovery the menu will have "install zip from the sdcard" if that is not there thenit is not rooted. This could be caused from a bad flash you may need to reflash the root (use oneclick) and/or may need to odin back to stock and start from there.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
Hello guys. I currently have Eugene Gingerbread Clone R2 Rom with JL4 Voodoo Lag Fix on my Vibrant.

I want to try other roms for fun. I have some apps and my contacts and stuff backed up and also the entire rom itself. i also have the Stock (Rooted) Backed up as well. My question is how do i go about going back to the "Stock Rooted" safely without using the odin program.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bobbbb:
Well, assuming you have ALL of your apps and data and contacts and such backed up with Titanium Pro (make sure, you don't want to lose this stuff!), just reboot into clockwork recovery.

NEXT DISABLE VOODOO OR DIE.

I'm also assuming you made a backup of your "stock rooted rom" with Clockwork Mod Recovery? Now, just reboot into that green clockwork recovery and go to nandroid or backup and restore and click RESTORE.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
Yes i have my stock rooted backed up and also my gingerbread rom backed up as well and also some of the important apps and my contacts backed up.

I will give it a try now.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
I don't think it worked lol. Screen shows "Searching"

Sweep screen to unlock but screen is black and i cannot do anything.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
cannot seem to get back to recovery either
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Drewstein:
Bob forgot a very important step, flashing a 2.1 kernal...

Best way out is to just flash another Froyo rom through clockwork since you don't want to mess with Odin.

I recommend Axura 2.2.5.7 as well as Nero V3. Go get those and see what you think.

*Edit* just saw your post 1min before mine. You may be using Odin after all.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
Ok Thx. Makes sense lol
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
Nah i only use Rom Manager.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
Ok i'm back to my Gingerclone.. I'm going to find Eclair 2.1 kernel, i assume thats the one i need to get and yes i will make sure to disable voodoo before i flash the 2.1 kernel :).

Thx.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Drewstein:
If you just want to flash other roms, you don't have to return to 2.1 IMO.

Just backup everything (Titanium/Nand/Launcher Pro if used), then clear data and cache in clockwork. After that go to install zip from SD and select the new Rom which should be sitting on your internal 16g memory and let it do it's thing.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Born2rade:
Ok well i tried other roms. I tried Nero V3, That one was bad, internet was uber slow and Gps doesn't work.

I tried Axura 2.2.5.7, Worked very well except Gps also does not work.

Right now i'm going to stick with my Gingerbread R2 as for everything works extremely well.
[Nexus One Accessories] Rafoolik:
I was wondering if there are any cases that leave the gold connectors on the bottom of the phone exposed so i don't have to take the whole case off every time i want to put in on the dock? price isn't really an issue. thanks.
[Nexus One Accessories] d00mz:
I don't think so, but if you get the one from Seido, their dock does allow use of a case.
[Android Apps and Games] radek-k:
Check out new CB Radio Chat test. Application has over 6000 downloads in a week time. Talk to people around the world or close to you like with regular CB Radio. Select channel and adjust receiver range. More features to come. Available in Android Market. Post feedback.
[Android Apps and Games] levvvy:
Great job !. I hope you find some time for develop this app.
[Android Apps and Games] RICHARDO1:
Very nice app,waiting for some more options with launguage filterring. Nice job Radek!!!

I live in UK and try to speak with my country but, they don't hear me cause they have setup less range ex: PL
[Android Apps and Games] radek-k:
Language filtration is about to be implemented in CB Radio Chat. Then you can set worldwide receiver range and polish language and that's it.
[Android Apps and Games] infm:
Super!!

Program jest super. The program is great. :)
[Android Apps and Games] sebol723:
Rewelacja jak dla mnie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeBCrx1Om_0

Filmik reklamujący nagrałem:)
[Android Apps and Games] krissos:
Program revelation!
[Android Apps and Games] verrox:
Well here in sweden it was minumum chatter, in germany it was pretty decent, and in the us it was all-out rasist talk.

Oh and i had to freeze the application adfree becouse the program detected it :@
[Android Apps and Games] radek-k:
For those of you who use adfree, adblock, custom /etc/hosts file or any other way to block ads.... Old versions will soon stop to work. CB Radio Chat is free because of displayed ads. As soon as payment/donation is released you will be able to turn off ads.

Regards

Radek
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] big nu:
So I just got a free vibrant from T-mo and not sure if I should sell it and get something else or keep it..

I was hoping some vibrant owners could give me some first hand testimony about the device that could help me make my decision, of course im gonna root it and i browsed at the development section and it looks like there some really intresting stuff going on in there, which is a great sign!!

So any input is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks for your time.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lqaddict:
I can gladly take it off your hands, I will pay the shipping :)
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] macgyver3944:
I'll buy it from you,how much you want for it?
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] s15274n:
Great hardware, beautiful screen, and the Nexus S MAY lead to gingerbread soon. The ui is incredible and it's VERY hard to brick.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Drewstein:
Our Dev support is amazing as well. A rooted/Rom'd Vibrant is pretty much the best it can get IMO.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Telanis:
It's a top-end device that should have 2.3 soon. It has the best screen and video chip of any android phone (except possibly the Nexus S), amazing for gaming and movies ... and basically everything. The contrast and brightness of this screen is unbelievable. Resolution is second only to the iPhone 4. Great dev support -- run Team Whiskey's "Nero" ROM ;)

TL;DR

KEEP THE PHONE!
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lexluthor:
Maybe some hacked up dev version of 2.3, but it's not getting official 2.3 anytime soon, most likely never.

The question no one asked is what getting the free vibrant did for your handset upgrade qualification? If you can't get the full discount to upgrade for another 20 months or so, it might not be that great of a deal. The new, dual core phones with 2.3 will probably be out in February.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dougstoner:
If it was free, and you aren't loaded, I would def keep it. I love my phone, and all the new roms coming out make me fall in love all over again each flash. I'm kind of a gadget geek, and I am constantly wanting the latest and greatest. I'm thinking about biting the bullet and getting the new mytouch 4g.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lqaddict:
Nexus S has the same processor and GPU as Galaxy S