yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mikesus:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

It should be noted that

and

There is a risk of damaging the battery to the point of it causing you harm. I would hate to be the guy who wrote the Kernel that bypassed the safety factors that HTC built in when it comes time for a lawsuit (cuz people sue over HOT Coffee :-( )
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Mikesus:
And

this would be from the folks at JPL, you know the rocket scientists ;-)

http://www.electrochem.org/meetings/scheduler/abstracts/214/1282.pdf

So, if you feel comfortable exceeding the recommendations for charging Lithium Batteries, have at it, but know that there really are risks, and folks aren't just trying to fear monger.

If you want the safe approach, buy a bigger battery...
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bkrodgers:
I guess what I don't understand is why, if indeed the only negative side effect of trickle charging is reduction in battery charge cycle life, don't manufacturers do this themselves? HTC hasn't won any rave reviews for battery life on the Evo (or any other android device, or any other manufacturer). It would seem to me that this would have been an easy way to deliver better battery life for users right from the start and calm some of the reviewers. Meanwhile, we're already being conditioned to expect a finite life of a Li-Ion battery, so if this just accelerates the need to replace the battery by a small amount, they could probably get away with it. After all, they make a decent little profit on replacement batteries. I see no downside for them. Users are happier with their devices, and they even get a little extra revenue from earlier battery replacements.

Yet nobody, in the wide world of manufacturers of devices using Li-Ion batteries, appears to implement trickle charging. That might seem to indicate that there is a greater risk than just needing to replace the battery sooner. The battery university article describes that "A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. " That could mean a number of things, of course, and it may still be perfectly safe in most cases. But I have to think that if it didn't increase the risk of some form of dangerous outcome in some respect, you'd see this in the stock kernel. They didn't just forget to turn on trickle charging...this is a deliberate decision. Doesn't mean this isn't still a good hack for anyone willing to take the risk though. I'm just not clear on what exactly the risk is. I'd probably accept a reduction in charge cycle life, but I don't know that I want to do anything that increases the risk of the battery damaging the phone or worse, even if it's only a small increase in risk.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gpz1100:
The jury is definitely still on this one. One on hand the battery lasts longer... Long enough to possibly justify the decreased lifespan. On the other hand, the severity of this is still unknown.

Both sides' arguments are compelling. I look at it this way. I go through a phone annually being a sprint premier customer. Being a late adopter, i'll typically flip the old phone for either the cost of the new one or even more. If the battery can't last at least a year, this hack is not worth it. With that in mind, i'm all for overclocking and tweaking hardware to get more out of it. My current machine is overclocked by a good 35% (3.8ghz vs 2.8ghz). The last machine was also overclocked by a good 800 mhz. Both still run and are 100% stable. Sure the processor life is likely diminished to some extent, but that's ok.. It's a price i'm willing to pay.

I can't imagine this platform being the first to have this sort of modification applied. Anyone have any data or experience on previous phones/batteries?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Jimdog420:
ive been using the v8 sbc benice kernal for a week and when i was sick for a few days my phone never left he charger, no damage was done, when it was fully charged the mah dropped so low the phone consumed more than it was charging.

so I believe the sbc kernals are wonderful and I dont expect any problems with my battery,

I can now take my phone off the charger in the am and shower, stop for gas, and commute 35 min to work and can expect my phone to b at least 95% when i get to work.

So have no fear, sbc is here to stay i believe.

And, as previously posted, a replacement battery is $2.95 so ill gladly lose 10% battery life or longevity for an hour or two longer of a charge per day,

Odds are we all will have new phones before it becomes an issue anyways.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
This is very important information. I just have to wonder why exploding batteries haven't popped up for users of these kernels. It seems to me that this is pretty definitive, considering how legit Battery University is. Yet there hasn't been a single negative effect for users of the SBC kernels.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gpz1100:
So far the common negative effect seems to be the lockup on rebooting, requiring a battery pull. Not sure if it affects everyone, but quite a few, self included.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] mroneeyedboh:
**** haha add me into that too!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wuclan48:
Hasn't been long enough yet i'd guess. It may not ever happen but I don't want to be the one with a battery blowing up next to my junk or my ear. If the only risk was decrease in overall battery performance over time that would be a worthwhile trade off but I'm not chancing an ER visit.

Sent from the void...
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
agreeeeeeeee
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dkdude36:
i think most businesses avoid trickle charging to eliminate all variables. for example:

(and this is all fake) there is a man in southern arizona, where tempuratures can reach 120 degrees. this man purchesed an htc evo 4g, which can trickle charge. this man keeps the evo for 4 years, using it heavily in the hot summers and not changing the battery. this man gets an earful of glass.

this is exactly what the companies are trying to avoid. lets be honest there will be at least a few people in this world that will use their phones that way ^^^^. if only one explodes, that could mean a world of hurt for htc. i'm talking tens of millions of dollars in losses. bad. simple solution: no trickle charging.

so if you live in the desert, and like to hoard your technology, dont use a trickle charge kernel.

dk
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dc13:
iv used the trickle charge since it came out and have had no issues since. one any of my evos that i have. to me it seems to work. i can get to work an have 94% battery when if i dont use it ill be down to 78% so thats just my findings.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bkrodgers:
I don't mean to single you out, as several people have posted similar responses. But this misses the point. We're not talking about anything that anybody would have seen yet. The debate is about what this might do over a longer period of time.

It has to introduce some sort of risk of something happening. If it had no downside, it'd be the stock behavior. The debate is over what might happen and how likely it is to happen. If it's just that the battery will lose its ability to hold a charge sooner, most of us would accept that. But there are engineers who say that it can introduce safety risks. That's not to say every battery that uses this mod will explode. But it might increase the chances that something bad could happen to some batteries that use the mod.

As someone else pointed out, I (along with many others) store my cell phone within about 8 inches from my junk. The increase in risk doesn't have to be that much for me to decide to stay away from it. :)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
warning: flashing this kernel may brick your device and/or mutilate your genitals.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
In other words, you keep your phone IN your crotch area?

Sent via my EVO from the backseat of your Momma's SUV.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
It's the only way to get it past the guards ;)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dschoenike:
And what's the definition of "a longer period of time"? Three months? Nine months? A year? I'm curious to know what people mean when they say over a period of time.

dschoenike
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wuclan48:
Again, time is one of the variables I and others don't want to play russian roulette with.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] CCallahan:
Bottom line is this:

This method will damage the battery over a period of time which is undetermined. No one knows. You could have a new phone by the time this happens, but it will happen. Like it has already been stated, these batteries have to be charged in a specific way and the SBC kernel changes that.

However, the chance of one of these batteries exploding is very, very small. Yes, anything is possible under perfect circumstances. But one has to remember these are Li-Poly batteries. They are not like some of the old school Li-ion batteries that will explode if crushed. The cells in these newer batteries are separated by polymer gel that is not very flammable, whereas the standard Li-ion batteries are suspended in flammable organic solvents.

This is not just an HTC thing....all Li-Poly batteries are charged in the same way to prolong the life of the cells.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Philyteach:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=900412 looks related to this thread!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] swaze:
It would only be related if the guy knew exactly what happened to his phone, at this point he has no idea.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wuclan48:
Also true. The bottom bottom line is it's your phone and your genetils. Do with both as you please and i'll do the same with my own. In my case that means I take no chances, no matter how slim, of any ill befalling "my boys".

Edit: on second thought I am keeping a potentially cancer causing device next to my nads ...

Sent from the void...
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AbsolutZeroGI:
What they're trying to get at, I think, is a comparison of how long a battery will last under a trickle kernel as opposed to a non-trickle kernel.

How long does it take an OEM battery to die with a stock kernel? Probably a couple of years, maybe longer. How long until it does with a trickle kernel? Probably far less time, maybe a year, maybe 2. No one knows, this phone isn't even that old.

I am using a trickle kernel and my phone hasn't overheated or gone up passed 4200. So I assume the changes aren't going to be so drastic.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] thisguyinoc:
As I'm reading through this thread, with my EVO charging right next to me, I started to smell something burning. Turned out to be a coworker burning their popcorn in the microwave! Bastard!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bkrodgers:
Well, not usually. I didn't exactly take out a ruler to measure how far away my pocket is from my junk, but 8 inches seemed like a good estimate. It's close enough that I don't want to find out how quickly a flame will transfer from my pocket to my underwear, and how quickly my underwear burns. These are things I just don't need to know.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
Do you charge your phone while it's in your pocket?

Sent via my EVO from the backseat of your Momma's SUV.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bkrodgers:
My impression (which may or may not be correct) is that an unstable battery can explode/catch fire while it's off the charger.

I don't think we know for sure. And there will always be outliers among the failures. And there will be failures that don't have anything to do with this mod. And of course, the vast majority will have no catastrophic failures at all. It's just a question of whether we want to do something that we know increases that risk at all.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Philyteach:
Is there anyone else who read this and burst out laughing? I had this clear mental image of some guy walking down the street and his pocket spontaneously combusted.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dadoc04:
^ LMMFAO!

Sent from my HTC Evo
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dc13:
Mine is always in my front pocket yet i dont care cause i dont see anything happening but thays how i feel
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
I thought the stock batteries were li-ion?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] RichR67:
lot to think about

I was reading all I could find about this when I first read some of the posts in this thread.

Found an interesting article and as the post prior to mine points out our phones dont use Lithium-ion batterys the use lithium polymer units and here is a quick tidbit from one of the articles I read..."The dry polymer design offers simplifications with respect to fabrication, ruggedness, safety and thin-profile. There is no danger of flammability because no liquid or gelled electrolyte is used"

That alone would lead me to believe that at least from a saftey perspective this charging method is ok now it looks like the jury is out on what long term effects it may have on battery life but honestly considering what we have all invested in these amazing hand-held computers not to mention the monthly investment we continue to make just to use them if I have to spend another 50 bucks a year on a replacment cell I dont have a problem with that.

But I don't think anyone has to worry about his wad getting blown off from an errant battery explosion!:D
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
Try this, take the battery cover off your phone and look at the little symbols that cover the batt. I have two oem batteries and they both say li-ion on them
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Compusmurf:
Based on the physical size and characteristics of the battery, it's quite probably Lithium poly.

Another pointer that says it's LiPO is the fact that 100% is rated at 4.2v. LiIon usually considered 100% at 4.1v

Lith poly batteries will have a Li-ion recycle symbol as it's similar enough tech that it's recycled the same way and quite often labeled the same way.

Charging characteristics: LiPO/LiPOLY

NEVER charge above 4.20v.

Never let it discharge below 3.6xv

Temps: 60C/140F If you hit this range you're risking permanent damage, life expectancy decrease or worst case, fire. This includes USE, Charging, etc.

Safety:

All Lithium class batteries can "vent", sometimes extremely violently. Lithium and water/water vapor/moisture is a flammable combination. The reaction usually occurs with a high temp (1000+ F temps) in a short, active flame (which most call an explosion). Usually this occurs from rupture or overheating.

HOWEVER.....

Most consumer grade batteries are equipped with a variety of safety measures and protective electronics and/or fuses to prevent reverse polarity, over voltage and over heating and also have a pressure release valve and a safety vent to prevent battery from burst.

All pack builders who legitimately acquire Li-Ion or Li-polymer cells are obliged to install protection circuitry that matches the cells characteristics.

This is the main reason I wouldn't touch the cheap ebay/China/unknown batteries at all.

Li class batteries have limited shelf/use life and finite recharge cycles. Usually 300-400 recharges before they no longer function. Trickle charge HAS been used before on Lithium class batteries but in general should NOT be done.

BUT, using this kernel for a bit of time, I've never seen the temp NOR voltage exceed any parameters listed for extreme destruction. I suspect because there is a continuous load against the battery while it's being charged which should keep it out of the danger zone.

That being said, at the very least you're pushing in voltage while it's discharging which will use up that finite recharge of the battery decreasing it's life FOR SURE. Could you push the battery beyond limits? It's possible but if you're using a quality battery and not some $5.00 ebay special of unknown origin, the battery will probably terminate itself if it hits the danger zone, leaving you with a toasted battery, but a working evo and a good lesson learned.

What HTC should have done: Provided 2 circuits inside the evo like it did some past phones. Once the battery was at 100%, cut off the charge circuit and provide power from the DC adapter itself to power the phone instead of forcing the draw to be from the battery continuously.

Do I use a SBC capable kernel? Yes, sorta. I charge up the phone and watch the rate until it drops to around 10mA of charge and then I unplug it. While charging, I do keep a close eye on the voltage and temp. I absolutely will NOT leave it plugged in, unattended overnight due to the fact that the SBC does take the charge conditions out of HTC factory specs.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
Wow...
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
I think most people are so used to li-ion batteries that they forget just how reactive lithium actually is and how much energy these things contain. You do what you want with your own phone but you're lying to people when you say it's safe to play around with charging them.

Since we're all quoting stuff tonight here's something from the FAA saying that they want all li-ion batteries to use the same containers as oxygen generators. Check the date on it.

http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/10-31.pdf

What I found interesting was this video though... I'm seriously reconsidering carrying my spare in my wallet now

Lipo (Lithium Polymer) Battery Fire through mechanical Damag
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] CCallahan:
A Li-Poly battery is a Lithium-Ion Polymer. Still a Lithium-Ion just different build utilizing the polymer.

And yes.....my stock HTC battery and extended battery both say Li-ion Poly on them. It would be hard to find a cell phone or electronic device today that doesn't use a Li-Poly as opposed to the standard Li-ion because the Li-Poly is lighter and cheaper (and most likely safer as well). Yet, it doesn't hold a charge as well as the other though.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Compusmurf:
Nice follow-on "book" to exactly what I summed up in 1 "paragraph" in my "book".

Temps: 60C/140F If you hit this range you're risking permanent damage, life expectancy decrease or worst case, fire. This includes USE, Charging, etc.

Biggest issue in shipping is you can QUICKLY exceed 140F. Check the temps an aircraft, UPS truck, even your car's dashboard as it sits in the sun for any short amount of time.

But your supporting quote has very little to do with charging of batteries.

-------

And yeah, the physical damage is guaranteed to expose the lithium elements to water vapor bypassing all the safety features.

No disrespect, but if you put a Li class battery in your wallet or even pocket where it can flex, well, um, don't come crying when you show up on the "Darwin Awards". This would be 1000% more dangerous than any SBC kernel.

-------

Now, this line I quote from you: "You do what you want with your own phone but you're lying to people when you say it's safe to play around with charging them."

Please do NOT put words or statements into anything I wrote did I say it was "safe to play around with charging them". I provided purely factual information in comparison to the FUD (Fear, uncertainty, doubt) that this thread is full of. Folks can take the knowledge and apply the most rare of elements (common sense) to make an informed decision on if they will choose to use SBC or not on their phone and battery.

Problem is, common sense is lacking quite a bit on XDA and most other forums. The repeated stupid questions, inability to search out ones own answer goes a long way in proving this point.

The developers are not trying to destroy your phone, merely trying to give you back the bit of extra usable space that the lawyers and litigation folks took away to protect people from themselves.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] chessmyantidrug:
After reading through the entire thread, I have come to the conclusion this forum has some rather gullible members. These kernels might be shortening the lifespan of our batteries, but we're getting more life out of every charge cycle. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I doubt any among us plan on keeping this phone for more than two years.

We're talking about adding minimal risk to our daily lives with these kernels. I fear women drivers more than I fear my phone battery blowing up beside my head overnight.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dahauss:
So, after reading this entire thread, I wonder if there REALLY IS any change of a battery catching fire or exploding? Now, there is a kernel for AUTO BUMP charging. I am now testing that. DO YOU THINK that BUMP is safer then trickle? are there any differences?? BUMP doesnt always work to give you 100% off the charger as today running V8 BUMP I was on 95% off the battery charger.. BUT then I went to work and then plugged it back in and was back to 100% ...

anyone have any insight as to BUMP VS TRICKLE and these kernels??
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] aimbdd:
This.

I am sure this thread is causing undue paranoia.

I think bump is how htc has your battery charge (they just bump it back up less frequently)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dahauss:
YES bump is how our phone charges .. it drops to 90% and bumps back up. what I would love to know on the auto-bump kernel:

1. is auto-bump safer then trickle?

2. what is the % or MA drop that BUMP starts again. I know its 90% on stock but what is it on this kernel?

One thing I want to know, we all talk about how trickle keeps power to the battery at ALL TIMES. now, we I see 0MA on the battery widget, doesnt that mean NO POWER? so if that is the case, then it isnt keeping power to the phone battery at all times...

BUT no one has said the audo-bump charge is safer then trickle and no one has reported that the auto-bump kernel is better OR worse then trickle for battery life (IE how fast the battery drops).
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] aimbdd:
It "should" be better for your battery. Neither is unsafe. (Bad for how long your battery will last you yes)

I don't know about what percent you would have to ask the dev.

0 ma doesn't = no charge, because you have to remember your phone is using energy still. It is just providing the same amount of energy that the phone is using.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
Users are starting to report problems (all starting today). Now I'm GLAD I stopped using these kernels.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dahauss:
Well maybe bump is the way to go.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sling:
hmm interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y&feature=related