yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
lol i created the thread and I definetly NEVER said anything about stuff catching on fire and exploding lol that was other people. My concern basically was it could ruin the battery.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
The best thing for HTC to do at this point would be to release a patch makes battery indicators lie to the phone's user - the reason these kernels were released, after all, was because of the minor OCD that plagues Evo users. :P The fact that the battery drops off after the phone is unplugged doesn't affect battery life all that much anyway. If it weren't for numeric battery indicators, most people wouldn't notice.

Also, I imagine that the rate at which your battery loses overall life from the use of these 'trickle-charge' kernels would depend on how long you let it stay at maximum charge. Charging overnight would probably be the biggest concern.

Edit: Sorry for the misunderstanding, hmsheen. That wasn't directed at you.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Greenfieldan:
So, I just asked the G-Pa who was a top Electrical Engineer at GE back in the day and he sent me this:

"If the claim is true that it doesn't go above 4.2V, then you won't have to worry about anything overheating or exploding. Those batteries aren't being prevented from going to a certain charge; they're prevented from overheated and going above 4.30V. As long as neither of these things occur you should be fine."

Grandparents who understand Android. Thas was up :cool:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
I agree with him, but that isn't the point, or at least the point that I was trying to make. My point is that the batteries service life is significantly reduced if the charging circuit holds them at a high charge level. In other words they are supposed to be charged to slightly less than max voltage, then the charge current is supposed to be shut off, and not restarted until the voltage has dropped below a threshold determined by the engineers that designed the battery and charging circuit. Their are no measurable ill effects if it is bump charged up to full charge, as described in some of the battery tips threads, as long as it is only done once a month or so.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Greenfieldan:
That's the thing, I'm not to sure it will (and my post wasn't directed at you...I just wanted to clear the "zomg, my phone will exploded in mah faceorz!!!"). If Chemistry serves me correctly, the only way to drastically effect a batteries life is to raise it's temperatures to dangerous levels. Often getting this full charge is what causes that so companies back off of doing that. However, it's been proven that this kernel doesn't overheat the battery AT ALL while charging. So will this effect battery life? Yeah, like every other kernel that's not overly conservative. Will it effect it enough that you'll be able to tell? I doubt it. Just my .02 :)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
I don't know much about li-ion batteries, but I'm going to place my trust in an entire industry of engineers over a couple hobbyists.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
The manufacturers make the choice so that peoples batteries don't die after a couple of years. Yes, you are pushing the battery a hair harder, and it will die earlier, but you get an extra couple hours (way more on an extended) every day. I wouldn't risk my battery dying a year early if they were say... $100 to replace, but they aren't... you can get extended batteries that work very well for under $9... It's a choice, not "putting trust in an industry" the industry chose to make sure the batteries don't have to be replaced under warranty, I chose the extra 2+ hour of battery life every day for the low low price of $9 a year (yes, I replace it every year because I want every hour I can get). To each his own, but please stop the "omg, the manufacturers said not to!" comments, they are unwarranted.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] taaronb:
Citing my charging history from last night:

The battery never exceeded 4205mV...not once.

When the battery would hit 4205mV or anything 4200mV and above, the charging current would drop to 0mA. When the battery dropped below 4200mV, the charging current would be bumped up to an average of 2mA to increase the battery back to at least 4200mV. The battery temperature never once exceeded 75F the whole night (8 hours on AC charger).

I'll give it a while, but looking at the data from the first night seems promising.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rstuckmaier:
I would like to add another instance of, using the "trickle charge" kernel, getting a max 4195mV and temperatures in the mid 70F. Where as simply using the phone unplugged gets temps in the 90s.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
The question posed in this thread was whether or not altering the charging properties of your phone will damage the battery. The answer is yes, and you seem to understand that. I'm not sure why you then proclaim that these measures are put in place by battery manufacturers to protect from warranty returns?

And then you go on to recommend using chinese ebay batteries lacking temperature sensors in conjunction with a hacked charging system??

If you want more battery life and you don't mind buying more batteries, why not carry a second battery around with you?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] b_allert:
ever since i installed one of those kernals my phone has been restarting itself 5-10x dailey, whenever i play games, run apps, text. the phone warms to the touch and restarts. in order to flash a new rom and kernal i have to put my phone in the fridge for 10-15 minutes. the man at sprint told me today i need a new battery and possibly even a new phone. i will say it was these kernals that ****ed my phone up...
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Khilbron:
Honestly I don't care if i need to buy a new battery for $5 each year, if i can get 2days out of my battery. Personally I hate being forced to charge every 9 hours. Sometimes you just aren't near an outlet.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
I don't have room for an extra battery in my wallet. Also... I don't need to because I get plenty of juice with my extended AND this hack. Btw, the stock batteries are from China too... they all have temperature sensors, how do you think my phone reads the temp from the battery if the sensor isn't in there? You have no idea what you are talking about.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
The kernel did not do anything to your phone, b allert.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
Impossible, the code changed in these kernels is one used when the phone is in the charger. How did you get your charger in the fridge? Lol! If you actually flashed this kernel, you would probably be using a battery info program, right? Well then, what temperature does the phone get to? "warm to the touch" is meaningless and only points to the fact that you have not used one of these kernels and are a troll.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Khilbron:
Putting your phone in the fridge for 10-15 minutes is probably what ruined your phone. When you put a hot item in a cold environment it generates condensation. Condensation is water. Congratulations, in an attempt to cool your phone, you got water inside of it.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bignibb:
Well, I am very pleased with this kernel, no ill effects a of yet. Now a for random reboots, your phone may not like a havs version either more or less, I use the no havs version. I use to get random reboots but it was because I was using a bad seidio 1750 battery and the stock battery as well as the sprint 2600 battery produced no reboots. Me and my wife both have evo's, mine rooted and hers not, I have a custom rom and ms's custom kernel. My wife has to plug her phone in every few hours wether she is on it or not. I have a seidio battery charger that I keep my extra stock battery in for her. My thoughts on this is that because u have to charge my battery less, I am less likely to burn through the limited charging cycles that all rechargeable batteries have.

I use to have to put my palm pre in the freezer when I was using it as a hot spot.

I have been following ms's work and have been helping test his previous kernels, the ones that were not as stable with no ill effects to my phone.

I have had this phone since initial release month. I am not sure why all this talk about battery longevity, my phones usually have a shelf life of 2 years, maybe less now that im a premier customer.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] b_allert:
first off, im no troll. secondly i have to put the phone in the refrigerator not charge it in their clown....alls i said was that ever since i flashed that kernal, my phone has been ****.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] b_allert:
nope, no water in it, and i never used to put it in the fridge, this has been going on for a week. thanks pal!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
Your phone SHOULD heat up with use. If your phone is crashing, then wipe your cache and flash a new Rom and kernel. I bet you that will fix you up.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
I'm talking about chinese batteries that ship with pseudo temp sensors. In order to produce dirt cheap batteries costs have to be cut somewhere.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ifly4vamerica:
+1 on flashing something else, why would you leave a kernel on the phone that effects it negatively? Looks like "YOU" screwed up your phone to me. Sorry, just my opinion.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
I agree, immediately flash a new ROM and kernel combo, b allert, and if that does nothing, it's likely your battery that has gone bad. This happens occasionally, even to those who are not rooted. Use your phone via USB charging and let us know if you experience the same symptoms.

Are you running SetCPU? Incorrect settings are often a cause of the symptoms you're describing. It's also important to note that SetCPU is not recommended with the 'trickle charge' kernels.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Jfree3000:
Who in the hell recommended putting the phone in a fridge? If your phone was getting that hot I think you may have other issues with the phone.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dkdude36:
can i set my governer to smartass in setcpu or will this mess it up?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cctaylor410:
Sorry but lithium ion batteries have a much longer life that 2-3 years. I use at work 36 batteries that prove you wrong. All of which still have close to the original capacity (down about 100mah out of 2100). They are 4 years old with lots of cycles followed by winter storage. If you are only getting 2 years out of a pack you are doing something wrong.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
I didn't say they could not last any longer, but what I should have said was they have a 3 year design life. To be even more clear, that is for cell phone and laptop batteries, if your batteries are power tool batteries they are a totally different animal, built with totally different materials and with much wider cell spacing.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Greenfieldan:
Honestly, until it's proven terrible for your battery I'll keep using it. At most, I see this taking off maybe a week (if at all) from my battery life. In that case, I'll buy the new one for $5. Is drinking more than one beer in one sitting "bad" for you? Hell yeah. How many of you people still do it anyway? :cool:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
Completely Agree.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Greenfieldan:
You have to realize, there are a LOT of people on this site that know how to program better than the majority of all tech company employees....
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
wfrandy, I don't think your post is quite right. The charging does not drop to 0 mA at 4205 mV because the battery detects an overcharge and forces the battery to stop drawing power - the protection circuit detects nothing; rather, the code in the kernel tells the phone to stop charging. It's as simple as that. 4205 mV is a perfectly safe level.

I mean this to in no way disrespect you, but I'm not sure you quite understand the way the kernel works. I mean this in the friendliest way possible and please feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted what you said.

There is literally no danger of any sort of pressure or explosion involving batteries with this kernel.

Wfrandy, asking people to Google 'battery explosions' and the like is an example of fear-mongering. We know exactly what these kernels do - they repeatedly top up the battery to a SAFE voltage so that when you take it off the charger, it is truly full. We have no evidence that they cause violent explosions.

People have been using multiple builds of these kernels for months, and no one has had any problems like these even in the earliest stages of the kernels' development.

Wfrandy, I'm in no way attacking you. Please don't take this as an attack. I just think that you may be unintentionally misleading people on this one.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] NewZJ:
people are not leaving the battery on the charger constantly to produce the plating, they still cycle the battery, charging it to full overnight and draining it all day or twice a day like me, if these kernels really did malicious things to a battery then I would expect mine to explode shortly, I helped test those pre-alpha kernels and subjected my phone to the extremes to try and cause issues.

still have the same battery, same phone, battery life has not been affected
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] timdawgdentist:
I too tried all the early kernels. I am currently on a sbc release right now. I have had a 3500 since they came out. Until this kernel came out my battery never fully charged. I get 4 more hours of use on the sbc kernels. I use the phone alot and at one point the battery would only work for like 8-10 hours of heavy use. At least 14 hours of use without charging with the trickle charge.

No way to fake that.

tim
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
First I would like to make clear that I do not consider anyone engaging me in an interesting technical discussion to be attacking me in Any way. And rest assured, I have the highest regard for anyone willing to put in the work that you guys do for the benefit of us all.

As I said earlier, I doubt that what you are doing with these phones charging circuit will result in catastrophic failure of the oem battery. The reason I say that is not because I think what you are doing is totally safe, but because I know that the oem battery manufacturers build in a pretty hefty safety factor to avoid the lawsuits and mass recalls that I am sure we are all aware of from this type of batteries past history. On the other hand, I do firmly believe that if someone uses these cheap aftermarket batteries, it is only a matter of time before we will see another instance of an exploded battery. This is not conjecture, or fear mongering on my part as failures of aftermarket batteries have happened with properly functioning charging circuits, that do not push the envelope like these do, in the recent past.

Regarding trickle charging and lithium plating, I respectfully suggest that it is you who do not understand. The fact that you discharge the battery every day does not matter in the least. The fact is, lithium ion batteries are never supposed to be trickle charged. They cannot tolerate being held in a high charge state by continuously topping them off for one minute, let alone several hours every day.

That said, the obvious question then is, if you do trickle charge the battery, how long until the battery is damaged to the point that it fails? I have no idea, and frankly, I seriously doubt that anyone else does either. The reason for that is that those of us who design charging circuits know that these batteries cannot be trickle charged, so I have never heard of anyone designing a charger to do so. Personally I am really curious about two things. The first is, how much is the battery life shortened by trickle charging at a moderately high charge state? And secondly, how long before the battery has been damaged to the point that the battery life is reduced to the same level as an undamaged battery that has only been charged with the stock charging program? On the later my guess is weeks rather than months, but I freely admit, I am just guessing.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dkdude36:
from ms himself.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
Are you using a custom ROM on your EVO? My guess is no, because your trust is on an entire industry of engineers.

Btw, wasn't it HTC themselves that suggested the plug/unplug 10 times routine in order to increase your battery charge a while back? That sounds to me like a topping off routine, from an entire industry of engineers and no one complained about it.

Sent via my EVO from the back seat of your Mommy's SUV.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] intheb0x:
Originally Posted by ms79723

Well I think it's ridiculous to be honest. There are a lot of variables taht people aren't looking at, so for me, it's a tough call when it comes to saying how much "damage" is being done to the battery. I personally don't even think about it, I would like to have as much battery as possible. I paid $500 for this phone and it's a bunch of bull that right now, people are making it seem like you have to choose between having a battery with little damage and only 85-90% for the day, or having the full battery with some damage and 100%. I get a lot of messages about that, and its just ridiculous. I just want to put it like this: Since this tweak, I can basically use my phone how I want to. None of that setCPU profile crap, juice defender, that tasker or w/e its called. When I pull my phone off the charger, I no longer have to hunt for the charger midday just for some extra power. You shouldnt have to put so much faith into the charger midday. Now with these threads and concerns with battery wear and tear, they are basically breaking it down like this: Which would you rather have happy? You or your battery? For those that choose the battery, and would much rather have a nice battery taht will last years even though I doubt they will be keeping their phones for years...good for them. As for me, I need as much power as possible.

couldnt have said it better myself...

keep up the good work MS, that extra 10% equals 4 hours or more at times...

if my battery has issues, ill buy a new one, they are cheap and easily accessible.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fixxxer2008:
i doubt the sbc kernel will damage your battery. :rolleyes:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tonwarr.the.incredible:
I feel the "market engineers" would probably rather you think there's a problem with the battery so you replace it. Our whole society is based on supply and demand so half-truths and scare tactics are gonna be used, just as they are in government, to keep up the status quo and continue lining their pockets. I guess at the end of the day its all business...lol

I honestly feel this tweak does more good than bad by keeping the battery at lower temps and controlling the end of the charging cycle minimizing wear on the battery. I'm no engineer though, just a common sense thinker....
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
The fact of the matter is this kernel will damage your battery and the maker of the kernel said as much himself. No one knows how much a battery will deteriorate if charged in this manner. If you understand and accept that risk then flash away, I don't know why this has become a debate about the ethics of running such a kernel.

Believe it or not a lot of research goes into the design of any given technology. I trust these people know more about properly charging a Li ion battery than a guy who changes that design and says "I'm not worried about what it does to my battery, I want that 10%".
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
And I don't know why are some people so worried about a battery which can be replaced rather easily and cheaply, when on the other hand, they have no problem overclocking, underclocking, rooting, flashing ROMs, radios, etc etc, with greater risks of bricking such an expensive piece of equipment.

Seems more to me like knit-picking and just trying to discredit the awesome work done by a developer. Stop the hating guys.

Sent via my EVO from the back seat of your Mommy's SUV.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] tonwarr.the.incredible:
Excellent point! Personally, I have 2 stock batteries and a Seidio 3500MaH battery which should last me the life of this phone so I'm not worried. :)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
Nobody is "hating" or trying to discredit anybody's work. I'm sure a lot of people enjoy the extra use of their battery. I choose not to flash such a kernel because a battery is cheap and easily replaceable, but my phone is not. I don't want to do anything to promote corrosion of a battery residing in my device. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, I'm not sure why this has become an ethical debate.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] jdh10475:
You can get an OEM Evo battery on Amazon for $20 not to mention the sprint store would probably give you one if you asked nicely. So if your concerned about your battery but like the kernel results just get a spare battery.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
Ding ding ding, and we have a winner. Just buy a spare oem battery and keep it with you in your wallet. It takes less than two minutes to swap them out and since I got one it's rare that I ever need to plug my phone in. Plus the battery charger I got will Charge Them Slowly enough that they stick around 100% for awhile.

There are much safer ways to fix this imo.

And you are right that people time and time again are reporting aftermarket batteries that always show the temp at 70 degrees. A resistor is a hell of a lot cheaper than a calibrated thermo couple. Do you guys have any idea what those things are made of?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] taaronb:
I'm on the third day of the SBC No Havs kernel and still seeing decent idle temps of ~75F. I saw it go up to 95F when browsing reddit for almost an hour yesterday. Not bad if you ask me.

My only advice for people that are worried about battery explosions is to keep a good watch on your temperatures and make note of any incremental rises over time possibly indicating breakdown of the battery.

I would like to think that if using an OEM battery and noting consistent temperatures over extended periods of time, the kernel would be safe.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rstuckmaier:
xHausx, my 70 F temperatures are all based on the factory battery. I actually use both the original and a "hero" battery (still oem htc, same mAh, just black).

Sometimes you still need two batteries, and other times you don't want to have to worry about carrying an extra one around.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Just_s:
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Sorry guys, I agree that information is a good thing and the OP should be commended for bringing it up, but the frenzy is a bit ridiculous IMO. Like anything else related to XDA/development, try it for yourself or don't, but the whole pitchfork and torch thing is a bit much.

I for one will not be opting out of such an incredible performing battery enhancement and programming achievement. I'll be sure to report back when my battery explodes, erodes, kills my EVO, causes cancer or erodes the ozone layer.

I wouldn't count on seeing that post for quite some time though.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Buff McBigstuff:
I'm upgrade eligible on the first of the year. If this hurts my battery I'll buy a new one, probably have a new phone before then though. Want to wait for HTC dual core, def will not buy a sammy.