yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Venue Pro General] flashpanda:
We're kind of getting hung up on this slightly less than 400mb of storage that's available when the SD card is pulled. Arguably, there are two plausible possibilities

1) this storage is available due to a 512MB NAND chip on the DVP's board, which is internal storage in addition to the MicroSD storage.

2) this storage is available due to a 400MB ramdisk being formed when the DVP is booted without a MicroSD card, and hence, has no access to internal storage. this is done as something of a failsafe mechanism so the device can still boot should the SD card fail (they're not hugely reliable, so this isn't that strange an idea).

Certainly, either is plausible. The disagreement seems to be that you think the presence of this 400MB of storage when the card is pulled is proof of a 512MB NAND chip, and certainly, it could be, but quite honestly, I find it very unlikely the device would spec 1GB of ROM, 512MB of RAM, 512MB of NAND, and 8-16GB of internal storage via MicroSD.

Frankly, I don't think there is a 512MB NAND chip, and I don't see any reason why there would be - a better design choice, for both simplicity and cost would be either only NAND (as per the Omnia), or only MSDHC, as per the HD7, Mozart etc. Teardown of the Mozart doesn't appear to show any NAND chips at all.

The issue at hand is that 400MB of storage available after pulling the card could demonstrate either possibility :(
[Venue Pro General] Razorfold:
Um The HD7 / Mozart do have internal storage of 512mb. HTC even states that it does.

The way I think WP7 works (and I could be completely wrong about this) is that when you do a hard reset, it wipes both the internal and microSD (if one exists) memory and then installs the OS to the internal storage. I mean installing an entire OS to a microSD card would be ridiculously slow :/
[Venue Pro General] flashpanda:
Fair enough, Razorfold. I'm just trying to come up with some kind of explanation/theory that can fit the observations. Out of curiosity, can you link to where HTC state the HD7/Mozart has 512MB of internal storage? I had a quicky look on their site and I couldn't see anything on their respective spec pages.

Actually never mind - it's not on the UK spec sheets, on the US site.
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
Judging from Da_G comments on wp7, I will definitely agree with this. But it is internal storage and not RAM

this leads to the question of why it isn't full 256 mb - is it going to graphics performance or ramdisk? Or is it cache?

Remember this is DELL, anything that is unsound or nonsensical is usually the plausible reality. Let's be realistic. We lust after this device and we need to realize the company is notorious for ... less than blemish free track record in mobile and tablet sector (see dell xt/xt2 issues rampant)

That said I'm with option 1, but adding that there is 256 mb RAM chip. Despite this, the DVP outperforms the samsung focus, which is considered the best wp7 device of the year. So it is anyone's guess at this point.

The contention at dell regarding RAM is that some have no idea where we got 512. In fact it was posted in video it was 512/1 gig rom, and on the microsoft website. I honestly feel like at this point if users are complaining about performance and a hard reset has been done, and replacement, get rid of the venue pro.
[Venue Pro General] Razorfold:
Dell's website also stated that the device had 512mb...when rumors of it only having 256mb came out, Dell removed it from the tech specs.

And well the 30th has past..the 31st has gone as well, and now the 1st...still nobody from Dell has said anything :rolleyes:
[Venue Pro General] Desynthesis:
I kind of assume Dell is doing one of two things. Either they are working on a fix, and don't want to say anything before they can confirm it works..

Or, perhaps more likely, whoever is on charge with this at Dell is screaming, "Don't say anything about ANYTHING!" And they hope to continue with that as long as possible, while not actually doing anything.

The Dell Forums are mostly silent too. Seems like people have given up (or, like me, they can't register for the forums anyway).
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
we can sue for false advertising...well we could...:D
[Venue Pro General] sureloch:
The info on the venue EM diagnostic screen under "disk space" is referencing the sd card only. It seems the two numbers represent free space on disk/ total space on disk. Additionally the OS does seem to be using the sd card as a type of virtual memory, I have confirmed this on two devices- a 8gb and a 16gb. I think when the smoke clears we will find that this phone was designed to operate with 512mb: 256mb ram plus virtual memory to run the OS, and 256mb allocated to graphics. If so I would say that is a good design.

What about the 400mb reading when the sd card is pulled then? My guess that would be the firmware reallocating part of the graphics memory back as needed to run the OS.
[Venue Pro General] Ganondolf:
people seem to be getting confused on what the specs should have been. it was originaly lisyed as follows:

1ghz CPU

512mb RAM

1gb ROM

8/16gb Internal Storage (non removeable sd card)

for those thinking the ram is being used for grapics they are wrong. all wp7 handsets come with 64mb on graphics chip.
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
so then its safe to say possibly there may be a ramdisk here...
[Venue Pro General] Ganondolf:
if u mean using ram for storing the os, settings and any saved stuff when the phone is on, it could be but very unlikely and with rom space what would be the point using ramdisk.

remember that you can change the sd card (although it goes corrupt) so the OS is saved on the rom so if you reset the phone it extracts it from somewhere. (like on wm6.1 it extracts it from a zip like file stored in the rom).

i expect there is a min rom space set out in the min specs but its propably something like 256mb what is less than the rom space in any smart phone thats come out in the last 2 years.
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
DellCares just tweeted confirming that the DVP has 512MB RAM. No proof though for that. Interestingly, they refer to a 3rd party blog post on calculating Memory (which is the same as Device Info) - How come we consumer can consider it official when Dell doesn't trust the other way.:mad:
[Venue Pro General] Razorfold:
Lol, I like how they try to claim the OS is using up the rest of the memory :rolleyes:

Yeh sure, the HD7 / Focus / Quantum all use up like 30-40mb for the OS...but the venue pro is using up like 250mb.

And whats even funnier is that the site Dell linked too for the memory usage app can't be used by people without a developer's certificate (or the unlocker) and then you have to code an app to use it too. How very convenient.

But hey it only took someone at Dell 10 days to come out and say the VP has 512mb of RAM...
[Venue Pro General] cdgoin:
Then I would only have 551 MB left on my 8GB card and I have much more than that.. at least according to the Zune software.
[Venue Pro General] pakkei:
The 250mb was probably used for special codes to crash the phone randomly. :p
[Venue Pro General] pessimistic observer:
thats odd and you ran em while not being connected to the pc right

also make sure you counted all the digits correctly and divide by 1024 twice
[Venue Pro General] babak202:
dell venue pro ram
[Venue Pro General] Desynthesis:
I've seen that diagram before....can you include a link to the blog/site that posted it, so we can see the readable, large version?
[Venue Pro General] canadariot2312:
Simple solution.

Someone tears the phone apart. I don't think anyone has done that yet.
[Venue Pro General] benjaminries:
That diagram isn't worth anything more than the speculation on these forums. It was just a photoshop project some OCD dude did when he was trying to decide which phone to buy, based on the info he googled.

If Dell is still claiming 512 on twitter, I say worst-case scenario is a firmware bug that makes half the RAM inaccessible by the OS. I think they've seen inside their own phones and they wouldn't be making blatantly false hardware claims at this stage of the game.
[Venue Pro General] Desynthesis:
Assuming the numbers are accurate, I'd like it purely for the weight and size comparisons. For memory, it's not that useful--a lot of people are starting to claim the LG Quantum has 256 mb as well.
[Venue Pro General] raimeiken:
that diagram can't be right.

I thought people were complaining about the battery life of the HD7? how come it's got more than the venue pro in that picture?

I'm getting a phenomenal amount of battery life out of mine.

I used to charge my G1 phone after like 7-8hrs of use but this DVP lasts me 2 days!
[Venue Pro General] cdgoin:
Yes.. I typed it straight off the phone screen and it was disconnected.

That said ZUNE noted (When it was plugged in)

2.55 GB for Media / 1.65 GB "reserved" space / 4.5 GB free

or 8.7 GB

Which matches the above total of 8.7 of storage.. so it would seem I am wrong and the numbers are ROM/Card and its not reporting RAM at all.. So lets assume 551.3 is ROM and 7.59 is SD card.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Now the question NO ONE has answered..

400 MB = ROM ? Then where is the other 624 (Remember we are suppoed to have 1GB ROM) and that doesnt match the 551 MB shown via EM

400 MB = RAM ? Then it proves we have a 512MB RAM chip

>>>>>>>>>>>

That all been said, I think it is a firmware bug, and one that includes a RAM disk (thus the lower number)...

The reason is I am finding not only Camera settings, but when I go and force 3G, and many other settings on the phone and some apps. Never hold once the phone goes to sleep, much less after a soft reset.

But who knows.. I like my DVP and its fast.. so it has what it apparently needs to have.
[Venue Pro General] cdgoin:
Whats wrong with being a little OCD now and again.. or for that matter ADD :)
[Venue Pro General] benjaminries:
Never said there was anything wrong with it. I like it when somebody goes all-out for their own whims. I'm just saying that other users shouldn't mistake the professional quality of the graphics as an indicia of technical authority.
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
well...i may be a candidate. My phone just got destroyed...screen shattered . I doubt that Dell will replace...so if the don't, I'll rip it apart. Should know by Friday.
[Venue Pro General] Desynthesis:
Speaking from my own very limited knowledge, it might be kind of hard to tell. I guess one would look at the chips on the main board and....look for a label? Count the ones that are confirmed to be RAM?

Honestly, I have no idea unless it's like a computer motherboard, which it isn't. I do hope you're better off than me. Still, you'd be doing us all a great favor (in fact, I'm sure a lot of those tech news blogs that reported on the DVP's RAM would be interested in as well....kind of surprising no one has taken one apart yet. Maybe there's some sort of liability?).
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
Dell's Corporate Crap

Well, i just went thru the torture of Dell's Corporate crap and just wasted my time and phone minutes.

I send a nice mail to Mr.Dell (thanks to this post) asking on what's going on with all the issue we are facing and Dell ignoring the customers. In matter of few hrs, i got a call from Dell Corporate. I explained them the issues we customers are facing and what's dell answer on that. She went on her standard BS, 'we will forward to the concerned dept and get back. On the RAM issue, it could be a month before she gets an answer'. WTF, to find the RAM on your specs, 1 month:mad:. She then went about saying, we could do a replacement next day, bla, bla,,,..all trash talk. Basically, i just hung up and can't take it anymore. It's like just talking to another front end CS.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
This thing has 256MB of RAM, its obvious. Try running a game like The Harvest or the official Twitter application or any other application, exit and quickly scroll your start screen. On mine some tiles will be blank for a few seconds before showing the respective tile icon, indicating to me that the RAM in use by the previously closed application hasnt been released by the time you scroll the start screen. Plus there's no way it would take so long to find out how much RAM is in the device that THEY designed, they are just trying to come up with a clever way to say it.

I dont have a choice of device on T-Mobile US, its either the ghastly HD7 or this and at&t isnt an option so I'm sticking with it. It works well most of the time and will serve me till something better comes along. If you have a concern and are able return the phone, dont try to get an answer from Dell or hope for a fix that may never come, its the only way to send a clear message to Dell.
[Venue Pro General] orochidp:
I doubt it's due to unreleased RAM. On devices with 256MB of RAM, programs are only allowed to use 90MB of RAM. It's simply impossible for a program to use more than that as per the development tools. Phones with more RAM have larger allocations for programs, though, so if the phone has the 256MB like it is feared, we could be losing out on future programs.
[Venue Pro General] jessej:
I have not experienced any type of slowdown exiting apps or games unless I have the wifi connection on. The Venue Pro also launches all the games I have tried faster than my wife's HD7. I don't know if all the current applications are limited to the same ram usage or not but I would not expect to see performance favor the Venue Pro without equal ram while running the same software version.
[Venue Pro General] canadariot2312:
Did that. It is still smooth, and I can see just about every tile. No blank tiles. The Venue is basically the same phone, there is your RAM amount.

Plus, it would make no sense why a phone with lower RAM manages to exit out of apps faster, load apps faster, etc.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
You cant look at another model phone and say because it has a certain amount of ram the DVP has the same. There are 8 other WP7 devices out there, its hard to believe only the Dell is being read incorrectly. And its not really a problem but it seems it is for some and my observations seem to confirm the suspected lower ram amount.
[Venue Pro General] canadariot2312:
From a third party source. I hardly trust third party sources with the phone information.

Anywho, if WP7 handles multitasking like Windows 7, than I don't think that this will be much of a problem. Unless you are running a badly made app that is.
[Venue Pro General] Desynthesis:
Honestly, I'm not getting any slowdown on my new DVP....that being said, I don't think that's a confirmation that all RAM is being properly allocated or used.
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
Interestingly the Android based Dell Venue lists the RAM as 512MB in their spec page. If they can list for that, why not for the Dell Venue Pro? That leads to believe that Dell is covering up something.
[Venue Pro General] domineus:
I have 35 live tiles on my screen...

yeah...that may explain for some slowdowns on start menu scrolling/loading

edit make that 37 live tiles o.O

well I deploy a lot =3
[Venue Pro General] bundia:
hey guys , i am from Egypt , and i really like the dvp , and planning to order it , but there is no DELL service here so i wont be able to either return/refund/replace it .. and i really like the device and all , but after reading all that stuff about crashing and the RAM thing, add to that the camera ,, i am getting confused ..

and knowing that i am buying it to keep it , i wont replace it anytime soon at all

so you think i should get it ? and those are minor software problems in general, or it's hardware stuff ?

still i think if Microsoft made a minimum requirements , it would mean that all the future updates shall work properly , either they brought multi tasking or not , at least that's my view.

in short , would you recommend that i buy it now ? wait ? or get another wp7 ?
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Well the first thing to consider is the phone is SIM locked to T-Mobile US so you will end up with a very expensive PDA unable to make phone calls, and if you have the issue with wifi causing the phone to crash like a lot of us do you wont even be able to use that to access any online services, add to that if you have any issue you probably wont be supported since the DVP is only officially released in the US, so overall I would say no, I would not recommend it and would suggest looking for an unlocked WP7 phone from another manufacturer.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
They are. HTC cheaped out on their WP7 designs, Samsung cheaped out on onboard storage, Dell cheaped out on RAM. Very convenient if a bug would cause roughly half the expected RAM not to be reported, not missing 100 or 50 but half. Dell is just buying time to come up with an excuse, hope people forget and reissue the specs with the reduced memory amount. Bet that's what will happen.
[Venue Pro General] bundia:
the unlocked $499 version is SIM locked as well ?

and in a personal opinion you think all these stuff are software or a hardware problem ?
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
None of the Venue Pro models are unlocked, you can buy it without a contract but they are still SIM locked to T-Mobile US, been stated by Dell and verified by some users. As for the issues, I would lean towards software being the main culprit since the issues seem to be the same for many users but there is no way to rule out a faulty hardware component as well, for example a bad batch of SD cards. There are those who report a problem free DVP but sadly they are in the minority.
[Venue Pro General] Razorfold:
You can buy an unlocked model from expansys, but I believe it costs $100 more. Also you can always buy one thats sim locked and then contact t-mobile / dell and ask them to give you the unlock key.

If they complain and say no they can't or w/e, tell them that you travel a lot and your business requires that you change out your sim to a local one. If they still say no, then tell them you'll be returning the phone unless you get that code. Eventually they'll give it to you.

Um those "third party" apps use a well documented API to get the memory information. And the API comes from Microsoft...who, guess what, codes WP7.

Also yeh it shouldn't be tooo much of an issue..but if your phone has 256mb RAM, WP7 limits each app to a maximum of only 90mb. If your phone has more than 256mb, there is no limit.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Has anyone actually bought one from expansys? Dell is currenty the only seller and others who have bought the phone from them have been refused an unlock code no matter what reason was given.
[Venue Pro General] Razorfold:
If that's true, then it's absolutely pathetic :/

If you buy the phone off contract, you are under NO requirement to stay on T-Mobile...they shouldn't decline to give you the code in that case. Alternatively, you could try unlocking it through T-Mobile (since they're the carrier and usually they will contact Dell to get the code for you).

If Dell is completely refusing to give it you, you could always try pretending that you're going to report them to the FTC for bad business practices and other lies.

The Expansys link, if you're interested, is http://www.expansys-usa.com/dell-venue-pro-windows-phone-7-smartphone-unlocked-204909/

Now while I've never bought a phone from them, I've never seen someone complain that the phones weren't unlocked..so you could always give it a shot. I highly doubt their CS will be as bad as Dell's.
[Venue Pro General] efjay:
Here is the thread discussing unlocking the DVP: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=858504. As for expansys, they are well known for false advertising so their ad really means nothing till someone actually buys one and confirms its unlocked.
[Venue Pro General] Tazkika:
Sorry to contradict, but the DVP's sold in Europe are (to my knowledge) ALL unlocked.

See http://www.expansys.com/dell-venue-pro-windows-phone-7-smartphone-qwerty-205052/

I have never ever bought a sim-locked device in the 14 years I've had mobiles. But we pay the price (literally) for this freedom in higher purchase prices for our mobiles... :(
[Venue Pro General] Ganondolf:
At this moment in time you can not but the DVP in europe. but when it is released it will be sim free and not locked to any network.
[Venue Pro General] vastcomm:
Another potential issue is what if there is a newer version of wp7 and it requires more ram. I would hate to be rejected because of the Venue Pro's lack of available ram requirements if there is truly one.

Of course there is no way of knowing this at the current moment, but I am not sure if wp7 will follow IOS or Androids path.

I hope it isn't like Android because then there is a higher chance of being stuck with an older version of wp7. That would suck royally. :confused:
[Venue Pro General] canadariot2312:
I hope they do some variant is different than both to be honest. I don't want every task running in the background. On iOS even your "pictures" is running in the background.
[Venue Pro General] bundia:
shouldn't a wp7 app developer with a dvp know better ?

i mean they got devices for testing and sure they get to know every lil bit about the specs , does anybody know anybody ? or how to contact some ?

or would it be just useless ? ...

and did anyone tried to contact microsoft ? as they mentioned on the their own web that it's 512mb RAM
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
Hmmm....I'm thinking this is not likely. If we see a RAM update requirement, maybe Windows Phone 8. Even then, not likely.

The updates expected from MS will fix bugs, may add features, etc, but all based on the core OS. I would not expect to see the base core requirement change.

I'm a believer in this phone having 512mb. I personally think the numbers reported about RAM availability are wrong.....well...maybe not wrong, but not reading correctly. Sure they hit an MS provided API.....that still doesn't mean the report is understood. I mean....I tend to think 255mb maybe whats left not the total.

Makes no difference to me. I have a Dell VP available right now, without a SD card. The Total RAM for Storage reads like 470 or something. And about 83mb available for storage. I started adding apps just to see how many it would take to max out. I got 12 additional apps added before I recieved a storage warning.

Without the SD card, the performance is quite nice. I added a 16g card, from the HD2 into the slot, and immediately the performance was a problem. I started recieving lags and locks. Took the card out, and rebooted....no further issues.

Shame Da_g won't come in and give these devices a once over. He's playing King of the Hill with Android. I think the rest of us are guessing and making **** up....including me.
[Venue Pro General] NeverSummer07:
The 256MB report is what's holding me back from this purchase. Take it for what it's worth, I just live chatted with a Dell rep and he confirmed it has 512MB RAM. He said 512 is the official info in front of him. hmmm... probably I'll order one today.
[Venue Pro General] notebookgrail:
Even if the device truly has 512 MB, the rep won't tell the truth as he doesn't have it. They will just make it up to convince you to buy. Either way, the DVP is good except the wifi freeze/bug and Poor low-light camera performance.
[Venue Pro General] NeverSummer07:
Unfortunately I'm stuck with T-Mobile. HD7 with its poor display is not an option for me. Guess I'll wait for the official number from Dell or from a creditable source. Argh, the waiting is killing me! lol
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
Anyone check out the new sysinfo tools? The ram memory amounts are different, again
[Venue Pro General] NeverSummer07:
Please share. What is the memory size?
[Venue Pro General] alodar1:
tool is System Info

Memory is listed at: 503427024

is that any different than the 255 listed in the other tool
[Venue Pro General] ZappiestOyster:
If the unit is bytes, then it is equivalent to 480MB.
[Venue Pro General] gmontem:
On my DVP, the System Info app from SimzzDev reported 235954176 for "Total Device Memory".

I'm using a 16GB DVP, Device Hardware version: 112.576.2.0, f/w version: 2250.1500.7004.105