yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
Unfortunately, if you read their thread, they say they disagree that any harm is being done.

Personally, I am not a battery expert, though I do have some experience with them in the EV car field, but my understanding is these batteries will be damaged if continuously held at a full charge. That is why the manufacturers design the system to full charge, then discharge to approximately 90% and then charge again, continuously cycling the battery.

From what I have read and from talking to the guys who design Li-ion batteries, they say that prolonging the time that the battery is at full charge significantly reduces battery life. Over time it can also lead to overheating resulting in an unsafe battery. For those reasons, virtually all properly designed charging circuits for Li-ion batteries are set up to let the battery sit at full charge for the shortest time possible.

Vann's quote from the kernel thread proves my point, what it appears they are trying to do is hold the battery fully charged while it is on the charger. That might increase the amount of time you can run your phone in the short run. But in the long run it will kill the battery.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alekosy:
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH? :D

I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
wtf.........?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Jfree3000:
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dkdude36:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...

haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] aph:
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:

1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:

The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.

2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:

What am I missing?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
guys... this is from the article put up:

When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.

The "trickle charge" kernels never go near 4.30v, mine stops at 4.19. Also, the temperature during the "trickle" overnight is very low. after 8 hours of "trickling" my battery was at 30 degrees C. Only time will tell if the battery life is SLIGHTLY shortened from this charging, but it is in NO WAY NEAR exploding, catching fire, blah blah blah. Stop scaring people, read the articles you post yourself and actually look at what is going on in these kernels. You may surprise yourself! :)

Now, if you cant get a replacement battery because you live on the moon and want your battery life to stay 3 years instead of 2 1/2, then it is your choice to not use these kernels, but dont scare others away just because you don't want to partake.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alekosy:
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)

Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198

I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...

You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alekosy:
And try JuiceDefender with UltimateJuice, the 2nd app is a small fee paid app for donation, but it's very useful with the right kernel and rom for your liking. Trust on that, I think everyone would probably agree that this way would be the safest legit way.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
They probably just used power from the charger instead of switching back to the battery. If they were li-ion they were not trickle charged.

I have yet to see a single technical document on how to continuously trickle charge them.

If some one could find anything out there that explains how to safely trickle charge I'm all ears but as of right now there are only a few people on this forum who think it is safe to do.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] gpz1100:
Brings up a good question.

If the phone is in use while connected to the charger, why doesn't the phone get powered by the charger rather than running off the battery once fully charged?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] casper97ta:
It requires a second circuit that HTC didnt include when building the phone
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bkrodgers:
Actually, Nokia had to recall the battery used in many of their phones in 2005/2006, including ones in the 6100 series, for risk of overheating and an increased potential to explode. :)

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/nokia-recalls-batteries-at-risk-to-explode/5938

I'm not saying trickle charging had anything to do with that incident, but Li-Ion batteries went through a period where batteries from multiple battery vendors used in different types of devices across multiple vendors were having issues with overheating and even some cases of fires/small explosions. It may have been purely manufacturing issues, but if indeed vendors used to trickle charge Li-Ion and no longer do, there could be something to that.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AbsolutZeroGI:
*sigh* this sucks. 8 people burn out a battery (which I'm sure is a huge percentage of evo owners) and SBC gets the ol witch hunt.

I've used SBC for about 10 days now, with the phone plugged in 6-8 hours a night with no problems. The battery widget monitor says everything's a-okay.

I guess I should find another kernel before the one I have stops being supported because a few people's batteries died and they assume it was the kernel's fault. I think in one of the updates, the guy wasn't even using an SBC kernel.

But hey if you're going to fear-monger, I am too!

http://askville.amazon.com/people-y...e-batteries/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=8375891

According to this article, your battery can explode if you:

CHARGE IT!!!

get it wet

put it in extreme high or low temperatures

high humidity

sand and dust

(my favorites below)

carrying it in your pocket

putting it in your hot car

using cases (which can overheat the device, says the author)

So, you see, your battery can explode at ANY TIME and die for any reason. The article also goes on to explain how charging the battery too much destroys it's ability to take a charge. Since we own Evos and they require multiple charges a day, our batteries are taking a hell of a beating before we're even rooted. You want to have low or no risk of your battery exploding? Don't own a device that uses batteries. Plain and simple. The guy who had his battery smoking? Yeah, that might be SBC that flashed badly or was a corrupted download. The rest? They probably charge their phone 6 times a day and the battery committed suicide. If I was owned by someone who stuck an electric cord up my ass more times a day than a terrorist prisoner gets waterboarded, I'd kill myself too.

I'm kind of mad I have to give up SBC because my dev won't support it anymore, I loved unplugging my phone and having it at 100% for half an hour.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] craigbailey1986:
I am going to say this and hopefully ppl from both sides can understand these comments:

I for one am not against trickle charging or for it but I have along with others are constantly studying the available material to see what could be the causes.

I dont think I have read one person give all variables surrounding the failure of their battery. We can only speculate that the kernel was the issue because all that has been said is "killed my battery too". If your battery has been affected after applying this kernel please list detailed info about the day and any relevant information surrounding the failure.

Is it possible trickle charging caused the failure? yes

Do we know if trickle charging caused the failure? no

The bottom line is if you are scared this will have adverse effects on your device then steer clear of it, if you want to see for youself by all means give it a shot.

Nothing on here or the internet has concise information as to what will happen, its only speculations. All the articles I have read say that there COULD be safety issues not WOULD: BIG DIFFERENCE.

Sorry to hear ppl batteries or device are malfunctioning but remember we are the test groups even with final releases, so lets continue to flash and enjoy our phones until the inevitable happens (Bricked) :D
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
The OP is being ridiculous with the thread title. It's borderline shameful. Batteries die all the time, and instead of treating it as a normal occurrence like we always have, we're chalking it up to one kernel.

This is still fear mongering, as it's been from the beginning. The giant "EIGHT CASUALTIES" is absurd.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Brandito:
in response to those saying it's only happened to a handful of people, and to use the same car analogy someone else used, ford figured the pinto would only blow up and kill a few people and decided it was cheaper to settle the impending lawsuits than it would be to fix the problem.

ultimately history tells us that was a bad move.

this isn't a witch hunt, put away your tinfoil hats. no one is being accused of anything. there is no "witch"

oh and saying you've been running sbc for 10 whole days isn't exactly proof it's safe. that's really an incredibly short time, in fact the amount of time they've been available for use wouldn't even be a long enough time to deem them totally safe assuming there are reports there may be issues.

finally, there's a lot of comparing sbc to just rooting or overclocking your phone. a bad root might brick your phone, or make it slow or do something else weird, it's not likely to catch your pants on fire though. same with overclocking, the amount the phone overclocks is pretty minimal and you're not increasing voltage substantially enough, if at all, to really cause that much heat. either way a cpu isn't going to explode, ever.

there's a big difference between breaking your phone and your phone possibly harming you.

i'm not trying to substantiate anyone's claims, i stopped using sbc even before these reports hit because it really isn't something i want to be the guinea pig for. people are really taking this too personally, as if their lives have been changed forever now that it may be difficult for them to get an sbc kernel now.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
I can see how you would be confused about this because some after market battery and charger Sellers still say those are trickle chargers in their product adds. They actually work like any other lithium battery charger though. When you put the battery on the charger it charges in high current mode until it gets about 90% charged. The charger then drops into low current mode (this is what some mistakenly call trickle charge mode) until the battery is fully charged, at which point the charging circuit shuts off completely.

Where these older style phones differ from the Evo is that when you plugged those phones into the charger the battery was disconnected from the phone and the phone ran directly off of the charger. Unlike our Evo's that run off of the battery, even when plugged in. Because of that, when you took those phones off of the charger the battery was usually fully charged, as a battery not in use would lose charge very slowly, not even a noticeable amount in a day, and with those old style batteries, hardly a noticeable self discharge in a week. The newer batteries discharge much quicker though, one of the down sides to the smaller, higher capacity batteries. That is one of the reasons they are no longer charged the way they used to be. Another reason is that it is cheaper and easier to design and manufacture a simple charger than it is to design and manufacture a charger/power supply.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
So, how many batteries have to die to convince you that the lithium battery experts are right and you should never charge a lithium battery in such a way that it is held in a constantly charged state above approximately 4 volts?

Sadly I suspect that if half the people using the sbc kernels on this forum had their batteries die, you guys will still be in denial and trying to blame it on something else.

So, what will it take to convince you that the real battery experts and the entire lithium battery industry is right? Would somebody being injured do it? Or would at least 20 people have to be hurt convince you?

If I seem cynical, it is because I am. I work with large batteries every day, and watching this discussion here has made it obvious to me that most here are clueless. And if you want to call someone who actually knows what they are talking about coming here and trying to warn folks that they can be hurt or killed by improperly charging their batteries fear mongering, go right ahead. You won't be convincing me that what you are doing is safe, I have seen the destructive potential of lithium ion batteries first hand in a test lab, and for their size these batteries have an incredible amount of destructive potential.

As far as I am concerned, in my line of work I don't have much opportunity to contribute much here. But if my knowledge can keep one guy from ruining his battery, or keep someone from greeting injured, you can call me, or what I am doing, fear mongering or anything else you want.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xlGmanlx:
what "experts"?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] scooter185:
So what your list is saying is if you expose the battery to something it's not designed to be protected against, it may explode. Explode at any time? If you're doing anything from that list, you don't deserve to use an electronic device, because that entire list goes against common sense, with the exception of carrying it in your pocket.

As to the people comparing it to over clocking, you do realize that shorting out a circuit board, if it caused a fire at all, would be an electrical fire. Shorting out the battery can easily cause a chemical fire.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xlGmanlx:
again, what "experts?"
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
I assume that's directed towards me? See below from post 75/76

I think it's safe to call their sources experts - "this would be from the folks at JPL, you know the rocket scientists ;-)"
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
I don't use the SBC kernel, nor have I ever used it in the past. I'm just using intuitive deduction with the information we have. Because batteries die all the time under 'normal' circumstances (at least by the standards of a rooted Android user,) it's exceedingly difficult to prove SBC to be at fault.

If it is in fact the SBC kernels causing the battery death, I would say only four of the eight reported cases have anything to do with them. It's very strange to me that eight people reported battery death within a two-week period (or less, I'm not sure.) I don't think a single one of these people are liars, but I think the person who compared these incidents to the Toyota accelerator problems may have a point.

The user who reported battery death after charging his phone for several hours while sick at home and reported smoke (and posted pictures of his battery cover) seems to be the most reliable thus far. If SBC kernels do cause problems, I would say he was the victim of them.

In short, we're jumping to conclusions at the expense of the developer of the SBC kernels. There are hundreds of circumstances that cause identical problems. I maintain that the thread title is uncalled for, at least for right now.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Just_s:
Screaming "fire" in a crowded room

EDIT: This is the most thoroughly researched answer/post I have seen anywhere: [Truth][Dev info] Do You Know What's in Your Battery

I believe posts such as this, presented without examining the commonalities between the individual instances are dangerous and careless. I don't deny that there may be something behind these failures, however it is important to maintain some perspective. There has definitely been no significant substantiation of the specific cause of any of the presented stories.

I have not bothered to thoroughly comb through each case or investigate all of the claims as it simply isn't that important to me and I am very skeptical of the circumstances surrounding the claims. It would be awesome if someone involved with SBC performed and investigation to determine potential causes and connections to EVO damage. What I will say, is that I strongly advise anyone who is fearful of these issues do some research and if need be stay away from these kernels, however it would be great if you could refrain from perpetuating the yet unsubstantiated mania with urban legends and third party "evidence". These are 8 cases out of tens of thousands of people running these kernels, hardly an epidemic.

I for one have been running SBC kernels since they first arrived on scene and have nothing but good to report. I strongly suspect that the eight people mentioned above had other factors involved. Just this week alone, I have seen a half dozen posts with people asking questions or mentioning overclocking SBC kernels. That's akin to having a cookout at a gas station -not really advisable- then standing in astonishment when your steak along with your grill, car and everything else in the area is burned to the ground. Don't let someone else's poor research sway you from enjoying the amazing options available on Android.

Both Ziggy and Netarchy know their stuff and it looks to me that they are taking the "better safe than sorry" approach, which is wise, but does not prove that the risk is real nor prevalent. Ziggy is referencing overcharging, which if the other devs are to be believed, SBC does not do. If Net truly believed the danger, I doubt he would leave links to the previous SBC kernels in his post.

MS79723's take here: Will this damage my battery?

Practice safe flashing!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] casper97ta:
Thanks for clearing that up I appreciate it. That makes sense
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pardonmyownage:
Almost all of the reports are from charging on USB for extends periods... MS even said don't do that. I REALLY don't think you can count that last one. The one that says count me in.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pardonmyownage:
Exactly. Now I dont have to type the same thing.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Crossrocker:
How about we let people do what they wanna? If you want your phone to smoke and maybe cause a fire in your house, that's your problem. You guys all know about this and if you wanna use it, no ones stopping you. I don't think that those 8 were to do with anything other then SBC. Coincidences like that don't just happen. I personally get much better battery life with SBC but I've chose not to use it for the sake of my 500 dollar phone. I'd be ignorant to let a battery get that hot right in my phone. There's always a good chance of your phone dying too.

A drop of Chuck Norris's semen was placed on the IPhone. We now have the Htc Evo.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] clintwinstead:
I've been using SBC kernels since I first purchased my EVO with 0 negative side effects, as have thousands of other users. 8 vs thousands...hmmm.

I get incredible performance and battery life with the SavageZen kernels and highly recommend them to anyone who's interested in, well, better performance and battery life.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] 94tbird:
Ill throw my 2 cents in. Been using a SBC kernel since Day 1 of the release of SBC charging. On my Chinese Amazon knock off battery I have had no issues. I've used the phone on the USB cord, on the charger, left it on the charger for over 48 hours at times. No il effects. NONE

Anyone who is afraid of SBC at this point has something wrong with them.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] detcup4evr:
Can any one post a screenshot from battery monitor showing how battery charging looks when it is working properly at 100%? If I understand correctly it us supposed to keep charging even when battery is Full. I am trying to figure out if level changes or battery monitor just reports info wrong.

Thanks in advance

Sent from my Synergized Aggressive Lionfish Evo using the XDA app
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
The only problem with juice defender is that it causes connection problems for a bunch of apps. It saves energy by turning the data on and off at a set time interval. If you are logged on to skype of fring or other real-time apps like that, you WILL miss calls/conversations. You will also not be logged back in on some of those apps. However, it DOES improve battery life vastly. If I could go without being logged on to everything all the time, I would be using it!

Also! Here's a 3500mah extended battery w/cover for under $9 shipped!

http://cgi.ebay.com/3500mAh-Extende...Accessories&hash=item2c59076a4b#ht_4542wt_907
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TheMagicalSock:
I don't want to offend anybody, but this is fear-mongering at its best. From my limited knowledge on batteries, flames and explosions are almost impossibilities on these kernels. Decreased life in your battery in the long run is definitely a possibility. However, it's important to remember that your battery will lose life over time with any other kernel. These kernels are likely to speed that up slightly. I would put an estimate at around a year before you begin to see negative effects in battery life. In the end, all these kernels do is keep your battery near maximum charge longer.

Not to sound arrogant, but that is the truth with these kernels, and that should about do it for this thread. There is no danger.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sd2649:
Totally agree... Move along...
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
Well, time will tell. Fortunately, if you are using an oem battery, they have a lot of safegaurds built in. So I too doubt that anyone using these kernels is going to burn their house down or anything like that. If you are using one of those 3 dollar chinese batteies, all bets are off, who knows how good they are made. My guess is it will take much less than a year to ruin the battery though.

For my part, I won't use one. On the other hand, I am curious to see what results you guys do get that do use them. As I mentioned, I work with lithium batteries and charging circuits from time to time, and we would never try this as the batteries we work with are extremely expensive. So my techy curiosity would like to know how a real world test measures up to the theories.

That said, I bet you won't see any of the phone manufactures doing this.