yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lovethyEVO:
This was a good laugh for me. I hit thanks just for the laugh.

Let's put it this way, in it's stock form the evo already bump charges the battery and no one is claiming dead batteries or smoke from their evos while it's charging on the stock kernel. So to satisfy your inquisition (and I'm not trying to be rude here) you can technically think of bump charging as "safer" than trickle otherwise why would htc use bump charging from the start.

As for what % or ma the bump kernel starts charging again depends on what the developer (at this point in time ms) set it at. I have been watching his github waiting for him to commit the bump charge file so that I can compile a test kernel with it and last I checked he has not. You would be better off trying to send him a pm and hope he answers it.

This my friend is a spot on explanation of why the monitor shows 0ma. I tried explaining this to my coworker and he could not grasp the concept of "burn what you earn".

The phone sits at 0ma on trickle charge because whatever is going into the battery is essentially being used by the phone at the same time.

Think of it as a "hackish" way of getting the evo to run off the power cable than the battery.

Although this scenario only holds true for the time that the phone is using the same amount of power that is going in. Once you start using the phone on the charger this scenario changes and so does the power input.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
Who, what, where? I've been using SBC for over a week now on CM6.1.2 and I've had absolutely no problems. I would like to know what to look for in case things start acting up.

PS. My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dschoenike:
Check out this thread :) http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=904577 Seems kinda weird to me. Ok, im just gonna come right out and say it, i dont believe it. Dudes first post is about a battery emitting smoke from his evo. Not buying it.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Compusmurf:
Does make it suspicious, but on the other hand, he described EXACTLY what I said "could" happen.

"That being said, at the very least you're pushing in voltage while it's discharging which will use up that finite recharge of the battery decreasing it's life FOR SURE. Could you push the battery beyond limits? It's possible but if you're using a quality battery and not some $5.00 ebay special of unknown origin, the battery will probably terminate itself if it hits the danger zone, leaving you with a toasted battery, but a working evo and a good lesson learned."
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dschoenike:
Guess thats all im saying, it just seems suspicious to me. I do definitely understand it could happen.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] SouthernEvo:
I myself have been using these trickle charge kernels since they were introduced . I monitor the battery temp as well as voltages religiously for the first few days of installing one just to be on the safe side . In all the times I have flashed these kernels temps have actually dropped to room temp and voltage levels stayed in the safe ranges . Again I chalk this up to how these phones all seem to react differently to software and all have "personalities" of their own . Am I discrediting these claims No , am I saying these kernels are completely safe no . What it comes down to is when you start flashing things nonstock you take a risk regardless . Me I have been fortunate and been getting awesome battery life out of my Seidio . Maybe it will shorten the life span of the battery over time . Will it be a large reduction in life . That has yet to be seen since these kernels are still relatively new . Its also possible that the batteries that have failed were already faulty and the kernels just weakened them enough to fail . I feel its the later of the possibilities only due to the fact HTC and Sprint were handing out replacements like candy .
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
Tonight, I had my EVO plugged in to the wall charger and when I proceeded to power it on, it made a power surge that left my entire neighborhood without power. I have Zendroid flashed. Phone booted up without problems though and I was able to use the torch app to light myself around the house.

PS. My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dahauss:
YES In understand BUMP is safer as it is the way HTC designed it BUT we dont know how ofter MS made the kernel do this and what effect it has on the battery.. anyway. IM sticking with the MS bump kernel..
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] aimbdd:
+1

Trickle charge doesn't over charge the battery.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] conflikt:
+1

I am sure that HTC did a lot of testing with the battery before releasing the phone and knew what limits to set the battery at. I'm also sure if HTC could have thought they could push another 10% out of the battery without lawsuits or anything in that manner they would have. If you want to top your battery why not buy an externel charger or another battery? Aren't you only supposed to top a battery like 3 times a month anyways? Also Is a 10% battery increase worth a 100k-1 million dollar home/ body part or a life? Isn't to me.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
WOW! I'm speechless. I couldn't even find a pic that could describe how stupid this sounds.

edit: this is the best pic i could find to sum this up

PS. My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] conflikt:
Google it.

Guy who was killed.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/exploding-cellphone-kills-chinese-man/

Picture of the phone

http://www.tech-ex.net/2009/02/man-killed-by-exploding-cell-phone.html

Another phone that just caught fire.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/140101/cell_phone_battery_explodes_in_the_night.html
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
OMG, do we even know if he was running a SBC kernel?

PS. My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] conflikt:
I believe so ;)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
Since when does 3rd degree burns qualify you for a darwin award? And after seeing the battery demod by a bullet I trust that much more than I trust over charging them.

That's just me though. I would rather use a wall charger that properly charges the battery to 100% so that I rarely need to plug the phone in to charge.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kingofslackerz:
You can mine to the list:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=10431788&postcount=49

although I'll continue flashing to see if I can get it to charge, if I can get it to any type of percentage to flash anything
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] hmsheen10:
I added you

Good Luck!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kingofslackerz:
Looks like it started charging again, I may be ok. I'll be flashing away from any SBC asap though;)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] detusueno:
Im one of the people who's battery died when using a sbc kernel. I did nothing out of the ordinary. I don't overclock or anything at least. I have tons of batteries but what does upset me is that I lost my stock battery. Most of the time you hear that the ebay batteries are almost always of lower capacity even when thy are rated higher than stock. It just sucks to lose what likely was my best battery.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dahauss:
Im still suggesting EVERYONE switch to the BUMP KERNEL and lets see if thats better....
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] :
No one finds it weird that after the first casualty report, everyone comes out the woodworks with problems IMMEDIATELY after?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] nukedukem:
Not necessarily, thats how it usually goes down. One person says that holding their phone wrong drops the signal, then suddenly you have antennagate.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kingofslackerz:
I had no idea of the issues untill i got up this morning to post about my issue.. If you're suggesting people are "out to get" the developer/kernal, that's ridiculous.

Everyone that used the SBC was using because they wanted better battery life, there's no motive for anyone to lie about or trash the kernal.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] rstuckmaier:
It's not that they are "out to get" anyone, it's that some of these are hard to document or prove. With so many people running around "my cousin's uncle's sister's roommate's dad works for company X and your phone is in violation of the Geneva Convention" it's VERY possible that some of them are just trolling stories.

Granted, I'm not saying all of them are fake, but it's just odd that they all came out the same day.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] vaelek:
2 of the listed casualties are members of my forum. I received separate reports about almost a week apart. Both reporting almost identical symptoms, neither having any prior knowledge of the others problem, and before the threads blew up about it.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kingofslackerz:
Well I had the issue, honestly could care less what everyone else does. I won't be using it.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] conflikt:
Vaelek, when you updating that awesome rom of yours? :]
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] EJerVJerO:
Here is my response on one of the other "threads"

I want personally more than a photo showing a phone melted or battery burnt lol

I want actual data proof you figure across more devices than the EVO people are using the SBC kernels and how many reports we have 4? out of possibly over 500+ people running a SBC kernel?

I personally like I said run SBC on many devices and zero issues. I use the alarm in Battery Monitor Widget to tell me when it reaches 0ma and I unplug all the devices from the charger. I also don't let mine charge while I am sleeping but again I also don't let other devices run when I am sleeping e.g. Dishwasher, Dryer, Washing Machine etc. The reason is if I am sleeping and something mechanical did happen to any of them I might not hear it or be up to respond to it

There is so many variables to the claim that SBC is causing these issues and no data to help people figure out why their devices had such an issue and also there are so many limited claims of people in general having smoke, overheating etc.

We also know that ROMS , Kernel, and Software even on the same hardware phones and stuff can cause issues that the other phone will not have.

We also don't know what batteries everyone was running? Were they stock batteries? Did they purchase 3rd party ones from China on ebay? Extended Batteries?

Were the batteries just on their way out in the first place and finally kicked the bucket? Were the phones in working order?

There are so many unanswered questions that need to have an answer before you can even point the finger at one single thing.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] HondaCop:
+1 Well said

PS. My name is HondaCop and I approve this message.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] deathsled:
ok so what I'm getting out of this is that you are a poor example to use in this case. You are not the typical person who lets their phone charge overnight apparently. You are actually taking additional measures to insure something like a battery problem doesn't happen. However, the average person plugs their phone in when they go to bed and pulls it off when they get up/leave in the morning. You should try giving that a shot for a while....
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bwcorvus:
I allow mine to charge over nite, every nite. I have 2 evos, and neither have had a problem. I also have never seen the charge go below 2Ma.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] deathsled:
and which specific sbc kernel have you been running? Also now I'm getting curious about PRIs and would like to know which one of those you have as well.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bwcorvus:
CM 6.1.2

Zendroid 1.0/1.1 (until 3 days ago)

Savage kernel (AOSP) 1.52/1.6 (Now)

Radio 2.15.00.11.19

WiMAX 27167 R01

PRI & NV 1.9 0.003

Hboot 2.10

One evo is HW 0002 (stock battery), other is HW 0004 (eBay 3500)
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] motenak:
What about your refrigerator?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] swatspyder:
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.

What happens if a battery is inadvertently overcharged? lithium-ion is designed to operate safely within their normal operating voltage but become unstable if charged to higher voltages. When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ElAguila:
I guess my main question here should also be not just what kernel are they using but what battery were they using and what charger? Were they all stock batteries, cheapo ebay batteries, the htc charger or the cheapo ebay charger. Is there a thread that gives that information?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] craigbailey1986:
Has anyone seen the new thread in the development section, which has pic of the inside of the battery??

Shows chips that make it almost impossible to over charge=over heat.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone but as of yet this is the only thorough research into claims of the sbc kernels causing damage.

May want to read up on it.... hope this is helpful.

Edit: did not see that one above me when I posted this. Yet I still think its something to look into....
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
::facepalm::

Read swatspyder's post
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] craigbailey1986:
Just wondering is there a problem with actually doing some research and looking into all aspects of a problem. I have read your post and notice you are against using the kernels but have no valid proof except someone battery was damaged while using it.. but of course there had to be some other variables involved, since nothing is one sided.

Again I don't agree or disagree with any one side just saying we should all start doing some research before we make any accusations about a Rom, kernel, radio, theme or whatever.

No need to respond this here is over!
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] ElAguila:
One last thought here. That same article from battery university that is linked to says that if you over discharge a lithium ion battery the protection circuit can fail:

"Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured. "

So another question to be asked on these batteries that are failing, do you let your battery go dead or nearly dead all the time before you put it on the charger. The bottom line is that while we can't rule out the kernel as being the cause, there are many other variables as well that you need to rule out before saying the developer's kernel is the cause.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
Research is a very good thing, I recommend you research what experts say about li-ion batteries. I did a lot of research on how they work and charge a few months ago because I was going to make a kernel to do this very thing. Every single thing I read about charging li-ion batteries said not to trickle charge it.

Do some reasearch.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] vaelek:
Another one bites the dust.

I had been using it (v7 4.1.9.1 CFS NOHAVS) for about 2 weeks on my extended battery with no problem. After these reports started coming out, I switched to the stock battery last night. All was going ok and then after the 2nd charge it began to drain very quickly. After it died I plugged it in and when I woke up this morning, it is still on, but also still at 0%. This is exclusively on USB.

I am on all the latest radios/pri/nv.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] craigbailey1986:
I have done a lot of research and not one has stated specifically not to trickle charge. Most have stated that li-ion battery can not trickle charge because they lack the implimentation to do so.

I read one article that stated The Li-ion chemistry cannot accept an overcharge without causing damage to the cell, possibly plating out lithium metal and becoming hazardous. This same article states that all li-ion battery have some sort of safety boards which when certain safety issues arise it causes the battery to not accept a charge until the condition changes.

(http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm)

Which trickle charging is not an over charge. The battery discharges at 100% while on the charger and slowly goes down until a certain point which is why our battery drains quickly after we unplug it. So in fact we are never actually at 100% when we unplug it.

The Sbc kernel keeps the battery at 100% when completely charged while decreasing the voltage. So when you take it off the charger it actually 100% charged.

We can go back and forth with this but my intentions are only to educate ppl. If you think the kernel would/will have adverse effects on your device then dont use it but to say the least anything on xda would/will have an adverse effect on your device. Which is why carriers say not to root. But hey we broke the rules already........

Hope this was helpful
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] vaelek:
Well.. so I just rebooted, and it shot all the way to 100%. Between the notification bar, battery snap, battery monitor widget, and system panel, all show 0% for the entire period from power on to reboot. This is the first time I've ever seen it do anything like this.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] fixxxer2008:
keep us posted as to what happens. id hate to have to go back to using stock kernels again.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] aimbdd:
::FACEPALM:: To you sir. This kernel KEEPS the charge at 4.2. It does NOT charge up to 4.3. Nor does it EVER reach high temps. so his statement with all the color and bold just proves sbc is safe.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] bkrodgers:
Everything I have read specifically DOES state not to trickle charge. I think battery university is generally accepted as a knowledgeable source.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

"A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. "

A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell is exactly what SBC does.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dahauss:
WHY doesnt everyone switch to the BUMP kernel.. I keep saying this but everyone seems to stick with the trickle one even after the reports.. I still would like MS to explain how the AUTO-BUMP kernel works as apposed to the bump that is stock by the standard kernel..
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
reading comprehension issues or are you just not reading at all?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] craigbailey1986:
I don't think you quite understand that quote yourself as the key word there is COULD!

Anything could happen if you root your phone does that mean not to?

Anything could cause your phone to not boot, kernel, Rom, recovery, battery, radio, does that mean not to use them?

Like I stated before it is way to soon to say o this kernel caused my battery to over heat when there has been little to no study with the kernel. I am completely finished here as we are not getting anywhere.

If this kernel indeed caused your battery to malfunction well sorry to hear that.

WE TOOK THE CHANCE WHEN WE FIRST ROOTED OUR PHONES! THERE ARE BOUND TO BE HICUPS.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lkillen:
This whole thing reminds me of the Toyota "run away throttle" panic where after all the smoke cleared, there was NOT ONE substanciated incident of a stuck throttle. Hundreds of scams and the very first one was due to a ruffled floor mat under the gas pedal.

How many hundreds of users have been using these kernels and how many battery explosions? Seems a few are crying "the sky is falling" for the rest of us. Fear is driven by ignorance.

First, study the charge closely. The battery is NOT chanrging all the time. It cycles on a Hi-Lo water mark. If you are on a LiPo like I am, you should be very happy. Read up on battery science and you will understand why. LiPo are meant to be charged higher than LiOns. But the simple question is, why are so many phones operating exceptionally well and benefiting from these kernels. This type kernel is not that new for the Evo either. SImilar have been around for serveral months.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
I find it funny how many kernel devs have come out and said this is dangerous yet people who have no idea what it is actually doing keep arguing with them.

If you want to use it go for it, just don't mislead people and say it is as safe as anything else you can do with your phone when it is not.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Brian Rubin:
Well this is kinda freightening. Can someone suggest a good non-trickle kernel for a 0003 EVO running Cyanogen 6.1.2?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] TruSlide:
count me in! SBC killed my battery too.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] wfrandy:
Yea, it is amazing to me how much some folks want to believe this will not hurt their batteries, when the whole Lithium battery industry says the opposite. Mind boggling.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] kd0axs:
Yes, I think we need to look a little deeper into what exactly is going on when these battery failures are happening. We are seeing a relatively small number of failures compared to the,number of people using SBC kernels. It seems that it may be a specific combination of events, possibly combined with an already faulty battery that is causing these failures. If we can get more detailed information from people that have had a battery failure, it may help others keep it from happening and could even help devs put code in their kernels to help prevent it.

We still can't put all the blame on the kernels. We don't know if/how many completely stock phones have had battery failures like this because those people aren't coming on forums loke this. They just take their phone back to Sprint to get it fixed.

BTW... that last report from Truslide is a duplicate. He's the one that started the thread on Android Central.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G with Tapatalk
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] casper97ta:
I have a question ive asked a few times in other threads about this and nobody seems to have an answer, EVERY lith-ion battery in the older nokia and motorola phones were all trickle charged. What makes these lith. batteries any different?
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] xHausx:
If it was a li-ion it wasn't being trickle charged, the older ni-cad they did though. Those were the ones you had to fully charge and discharge a couple of times to condition them.