yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] z31k:
@JoePR31, I thank you for your commendations.. I can also agree with Vangrieg on what he posted earlier in this forum..

I can tell you that the people I work with are "pushers" instead of real knowledgeable reps. As far as what they train us on, it is mostly what the company is really trying to implement with all of it's customers. It is called Right fitting the customer. It is introducing yourself, finding the customers needs, tell them why T-mobile, Discover a solution for the customer and then thank the customer.. T-mobile is really trying to change it's customer service and image and is doing a really good job at doing so. I was really impressed with the training involved with the company.. UNFORTUNATELY, most of the training on the handsets are left up to the rsa.. I got into this job because I genuinely love cell phones. I really do, I think the technological advances are phenomenal. As a matter of fact I am the tech guy in the store.. When someone has a question about any of the phones and their features I am the go to guy. I know android, windows, blackberry and even phone firsts..But like I stated, not all the sellers are like myself.. There really is a need for more product knowledgeable rsa..

Going back, I just really think you shouldn't let these ignorant people deter you from what could be a great relationship with the company.. They really have a great product selection. And whether it be a G2, HD7, Mytouch or a Samsung T239, I feel that if you know that the rsa in the store close to you are not well knowledgeable don't buy at that second.. Do the homework first then come back. I am one of the many few who actually tell the customer that it is all on preference. I may love the HD7 to bits, but does that mean that YOU will love it? D the homework and come back and let me know.. Then I hand them a card and some do come back..
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
There are newer snapdragon chips out and Microsoft I'm sure will support them.

Microsoft enforces minimum and chasis specs. There are things OEMs can do to improve the quality of WP7 devices.

Plastic Casing (Samsung), Bad Cameras and Dubious Quality Displays (HTC), and not taking advantage of the awesome development environment offered to them is not the fault of Microsoft.

I expect newer phones to have upgraded (but backward compatible) SoCs and features like FFCs to start propping up. I also expect to start seeing 32GB SKUs soon.

Unless Microsoft plans to keep developing Zune HDs, they have no choice but to start pressuring Manufacturers to release 32 and 64 GB SKUs for their devices, else they will lose out on sales/marketshare due to people keeping older Zune HDs as PMPs and going with other smartphone platforms due to the storage limitations.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
But MS will get branded as the failure. So they need to control those aspects also.
[Windows Phone 7 General] TooSlo:
As someone who is close to GPMs at MS, there isn't a push for larger capacity phones. MS doesn't really have a desire to put multimedia videos on devices, and will instead continue to push things like the Zune pass and work on streaming solutions. I'd talk further about this, but NDAs keep me from that.

I liken the thinking much to how Jobs said that he didn't want the iPhone to be designed as a gaming device.

The downside to the MS position, is that developers can't just make apps that give a WP7 phone more storage.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
But they can write some really great streaming apps (which I would prefer to downloading content to storage all the time).
[Windows Phone 7 General] TooSlo:
You're right, they can write some streaming apps like that.

They aren't targeting a demographic that wants to watch full length movies on their devices.

It was strange for me to wrap my head around with at first, but then I realized that the WP7 device wasn't targeted at me, and no matter how much I *****ed to my friends on the WP7 team, that wasn't going to change.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Very true. One reason Apple has had so much success. The iPhone, and all Apple products, have always had outstanding design appeal and desirability. Not only do they work well and are technologically advanced, they look elegant and are beautiful in appearance. People love something that looks cool. Part of that is growing up with Sci-Fi movies showing cool gadgets representing future tech. Everyone wants a do-it-all amazing device that looks physically advanced like it came from the future.

MS has always been either stubborn or ignorant of this tact. Such as the original XBOX and Zunes, ugly as sin they were. One reason I think the coming WP7 updates will leaves us wanting. People right now are expecting that MS will do something serious about the lack of launch features in WP7. I hope they do, but when the news about the Aug/Sep "massive" update came out, I knew the two near updates would likely not address it. This is how MS is. Maybe they are just isolated from the understanding of what they need to do, I don't know. But they have always seemed to be in the dark about providing satisfaction up front.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Does ANYONE want to watch full length movies on a phone? Smartphones are for quick content consumption, not extended entertainment.
[Windows Phone 7 General] greenbrd:
MS made its bed by limping along with WM for years past its prime, and also by launching colossal consumer device failures in the Zune and the Kin. Not to mention the joke that was Vista.

And then they finally introduce a radically "improved" WP7 OS, and it's years behind the rest of the market in terms of features because they had to strip it down in order to make the 2010 holiday buying season.

Oh, and they support it with an ad campaign that uses a three-year old catchphrase as the punchline. Really?

Subtract XDA fanbois from the equation and the public perception of the current smartphone market is something like:

* iOS: Hip, fashionable, lots of apps

* Android: Cool, lots of hardware choices

* MS: Really?

But yeah. Blame it all on a couple of T-Mobile sales people. Boo hoo.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
True. But the ironic thing is, MS is totally capable of putting out the most advanced software and tech the world has ever seen, if they choose to. But for some screwball reason, they just rarely do. Maybe they are just such tightwads that they squeak when they walk. Who knows. Nevertheless, WP7 is as advanced a mobile OS I've ever seen...in it's core functionality, not talking features here.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That's a bad argument. Users can take HD-quality videos and high MP photos with their phones. There will be phones with higher Capacities.

And I didn't say Zune Pass. I said ZuneHD. People are wanting to lower the number of devices they carry. Microsoft touted every Windows Phone as being a Zune HD. If they want people to believe that, then they need to have the manufacturers release phones with ZuneHD capacities, the same way Apple Releases iPhones with iTouch Capacities.

It's not just about what people get from Microsoft. It's about what they get from each other, themselves, the internet, and everywhere else.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
Yes, WP7 is a great OS in the making, but it is not wrapped in great hardware. It is wrapped in bland "me too" hardware. And the commercials are nowhere near as appealing as iPhone. It was only recently did I see an AT&T commercial demonstrating what the phone can do (the whole WP7 can do things quicker campaign).
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Ah...I don't see anything wrong with the current hardware. It may not be cutting edge, but it is sufficient to run this cutting edge OS. I wouldn't expect hardware innovation from MS like from Apple, anyway. MS's forte` is software creation. Their hardware attempts in the past are a testament to their focus, or lack of focus. If MS did actually want to innovate hardware-wise, I believe they are completely capable to stunn. But their business practices apparently don't have room or patience with hardware creation.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lumpaywk:
Just thought i would point out that although the zune was a marketing flop it was and still is the best media device out there bar maybe the top end sony devices. The flop of zune was more a disaster for media lovers than anything else as it could of been huge and is still the better choice over an ipod.

As for the rest your right about the public perception but that is why it so important to change this as MS have a product that is amazing and perfect for the majority of users in the world bar the few high end hard core consumers out there. If the phone does end up failing due to the small mindedness of the sales teams in the world then it wont really be MS i feel for they are a huge company and i have no sympathy for the uber rich but i will feel for the consumers that are left with fewer choices and who would of lost something truly original and exciting that would of fit there lives much better than the jerky high end user android or the tightly locked down super boring iphone.

By damaging MS your damaging the market as a whole and the ability for standard users to make informed and unbias opinion with a range of choices. If wp7 fails what will that say to anyone else willing to give it a shot esp once bb finally drops off.
[Windows Phone 7 General] enyaj:
This I would love to hear about. I for one love to argue too, pity theres no TMo in the Philippines. :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Public Perception goes beyond commercials.

When someone searches Windows Phone 7 and XDA posts show up on the first page with fanboys disparaging the OS and calling it the next version of Windows Mobile... It's kind of hard to combat that.

I don't think people realize how much search and other internet mediums play a role in people's decision to purchase or even consider certain technologies.

Just in the other thread we had a fanboi saying Android was perfect. Bloggers and sites like Endgadget are openly negative towards Microsoft.

There's only so far Advertising can take you.

Once the fanbois stared taking root in the Carrier stores, it became even harder.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lumpaywk:
its clear what ms need to do and that is get there own sales people out there, set up stands in shopping centres selling there phones demoing them and who know about them. Pointless having adverts or good reviews etc if the sales people wont sell it. MS desporatly needs to get itself out into the marketplace and not sit behind there desks.
[Windows Phone 7 General] jhughesy:
T-Mobile HTC HD7 “among … customers’ top smartphone choices”
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Not everyone buys their Phones directly from T-Mobile since other outlets often offer the same prices, even better in many cases and there are so many different places to get them.

This thread is talking about the attitude of the salespeople in the stores, not how much of the phones they sold, or how satisfied the people actually are with the phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] donnie1:
it's make's sense for t mobile to be in bed with android

Android has it's hand in mobile advertising, and specialize in collecting user data, with the advent of cloud on the horizon, the more you know about your customers, the greater the return, apple don't like to share, hence the android and t mobile loving. Two experts in their own right

Windows mobile 7 is light years off between both android and apple, because microsoft have to many developers and not enough idea's people, people who connect the dot's, for example using near field communciation with tablets to relay info on big screens.

Windows mobile 7 needs to define what they are experts in and if they can't do it alone, join forces with a company that compliements them, not a company also at a junction at this present moment in time 'Nokia' - why don't i make an advert like apple to show we are hip...........

If i was Windows i would of killed of blackberry and become the number 1 business phone, not try and compete with apple, 'the extension of ego' or google, 'the greatest chameleon this century' who have now taken windows mobiles spot
[Windows Phone 7 General] lip:
Let's be honest...these "sales people" are not the brightest bulbs ever to shine...their goal is to sell at the end of the day and all they did was piss off a potential customer, regardless if they are correct or not (not in this case).

If I was their manager I would issue a warning and fire them immediately after if possible, or perhaps put them in a different position where they don't deal with the public...

I'm in sales (technical automation sales) as a manager of a large sales organization and to be honest the customer is always right at the end of the day...and even if they are not, we have to make sure they feel they are...
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
no one is going to get fired for selling a phone. iphone, android, symbian, wp, whatever. the isp's don't care what you sell, so long as there is a contract.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lip:
The point is that he pissed off a customer...usually means no sale...end of story.

Salesman FAIL
[Windows Phone 7 General] jaidedfocus:
I go into T-Mobile stores on a regular basis and never had that happen. Granted I wouldn't take their opinions since I probably know more about their phones than they do lol.

I think alot of the issues do come from the amount of returned devices they receive though. Blackberry phones, HD2s, and apparently people not happy with their HD7s see alot of returns so they're probably more inclined to sell phones the company tells them are less likely to be returned and push those sales over everything else. I don't blame them for that but they should be alot more educated with the products they sell.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
They didn't stop pushing Vibrants and there were probably way more returns than with the HD7 due to its various issues (hardware and software)...

At least not until the G2 and later MyTouch was released.
[Windows Phone 7 General] GekkoAce:
When I went to buy my Windows Phone 7 at an At&t store a month ago, none of the reps had anything good to say.

One rep even told me if I was a avid Facebook user I should go with the Samsung Captivate instead of the Samsung Focus.

I noticed none of the other reps seemed to be encouraging the Windows Phones while I was there.

I love my Focus so far. I wish MS would put out some press releases with more details to get users excited about the upcoming upgrades. I'm hoping they will allow other app repos to be added to their marketplace. I keep crossing my fingers that's the reason they decided to yank ChevronWP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The biggest negative for Windows Phone 7 at the moment is the lack of a first party IM client. Microsoft not launching with a working Windows Live Messenger which uses PUSH and runs in the background is a showstopper for a lot of people.

SMS/MMS simply doesn't cut it any longer, and trying to convince friends to install third party apps (WhatsApp on Android is great, but no one I know of knows what it is or wants to install it to do something they can do trivially with first-party apps (BBM, etc.)). It was also another thing they could have usurped Google on, cause Google Talk in Android is ridiculously bad...

A lot of that other stuff is fluff. As long as the first party (usually the most used) apps/integrations multitask and do not assault your battery and there is a decent media sync application, it's fine.

But when you cannot multi-task, yet the phone fails to ship with something as trivial as a first party IM client from a vendor that owns one of the largest IM networks in the world...

THAT, is a bit of a massive failure.

A majority of WLM users aren't business users, so no one in their right mind will buy a phone and wait almost a year for a Lync client that may have WLM capabilities (what I'm assuming Microsoft is making users wait for).

The issue isn't that the OS is a failure, it's that some of the functionality gaps doesn't make sense. I can do without 3rd party multi-tasking, file system access/file manager (use Zune for that stuff), etc.

What I cannot do without, is a decent WLM IM client.

It's beyond me how so many smartphone OSes/Vendors fail so hard at IM.

Google Talk has no File Transfe. There's no WLM at all on WP7. I mean, the only smartphone OS with a decent IM experience has been Windows Mobile 6.5, thanks to Windows Live for Windows Mobile (although it didn't support Yahoo! contacts in your Friends List). I'm almost ready to get a Blackberry because while the OS may stink, at least they can get basic messaging done right.

I've been pushing hard as **** to get people to install WhatsApp so that I could send files with no limitations and wouldn't have to run battery killing IM clients like eBuddy and Palringo. Out of about 20 people I've pressured, only one has installed it, and it's not worth having it installed for 1 person.

I have the money to get a new phone off-contract (thank Christmas!), but I'm really starting to consider a Nokia or RIM device (or just wait it out and see what comes out next), but I'm tired waiting because the lack of these trivial capabilities on a phone is affecting my iQoL...

I simply don't get how you can aggressively market the OS along with Windows Live reavamps, etc. but fail at something so trivial as a working first-party IM client...
[Windows Phone 7 General] JoePR31:
I agree. I think MS is being overly reliant on the carriers. Those carriers have little incentive right now to push WP7. The only one in the US making any attempt to do so is AT&T with a few decent TV commercials. Tmo has done NOTHING to help get the word out about WP7. If anything, as many have experienced first hand, they're hurting WP7...at least at the retail store level.

MS needs to grab the bull by the horns and take charge of the fate of their new OS. They did a great job when it came to creating WP7...and I'm sure they're busy working on updates to close the functionality gap (what are all the trolls gonna cry about then?), but they need to spend even more of their mountain of cash to help build momentum. And, I don't think the TV commercials are cutting it.

I think a grassroots type campaign in shopping malls with attractive displays focused solely on WP7 and manned by a few very knowledgeable MS reps would be highly effective at getting positive word of mouth going. Expensive, but effective.
[Windows Phone 7 General] agp64:
I have visited at least 10 stores while on holidays on the Gold Coast Australia, [Not much else to do here at the moment as it has rained every day.:(]

And all stores so far have been pushing android not one rep recommended WP7.

I eventually asked one of the store staff if I could see a HTC HD7 and he went on about how Android has a better OS.:eek:
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
I think, in today's smartphone market, Apple may have the best business model. MS 2nd best only if they take even more control over their platform. They need to make a gold-standard WP7 device the same way Google did the Nexus. Even if people could only read about it or only see it, it would be incentive for the hardware partners to step their game up. The OS is great, but the hardware is mediocre. Even if the upcoming updates are amazing, the hardware still is not appealing enough.
[Windows Phone 7 General] TooSlo:
WP7 has been designed around the ghz class phones.

Take a look at every release phone.

MS is taking the route that Apple has. If you create a "standard" platform and design the OS around that, you can stay away from many of the issues that Android deals with.
[Windows Phone 7 General] WhyBe:
True, but the standard is lackluster. A smartphone isn't just the OS loaded inside of it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ustudio:
sORRY FOR NOT READING EVERYTHING THE TITLE GOT ME TO REPLYING AS i WENT TO THE TMOBILE STORE TO SEE THE HD7 ALSO AND WAS MET WITH A SALEMAN THAT WAS DISSING THE HD7 EVE THOUGH HYE REALLY HADNT SEEN IT REALLY, THEY DIDNT HAVE ONE AT THE STORE AND ALSO WAS SAYING THAT IT WASNT SELLING. bUT TO ME i WAS LIKE OKAY THEN WHY YOU DONT HAVE ANY? oN A gOOD NOTE i WENT TO A RADIO SHACK AND THE SALESMAN WAS VERY HELPFUL, HE DIDNT HAVE ONT TO DISPLAY BUT HE WENT AND GOT ONE OUT THE BACK i THINK IT WAS SOMEONE PERSONAL PHONE AND LET ME PLAY WITH IT FORM SEEING IT IT MADE ME FEEL BETTER, MY HD2 I BROUGHT FROM A WALMART FOR THE SAME REASON, THE TMOBILE STORE DIDNT HAVE IT IN STOCK AND WHEN THEY FINALLY HAD ONE THEY ACTED LIKE THEY DIDNT WANT A SELL. sORRY FOR THE CAPS, MY NEPEW WAS ON THE COMPUTER AND i STARTED THIS WITH OTU LOOKING UP.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
If the requirements weren't all that low, they would have shut all of the low-cost assemblers out of the WP7 market because they would not be able to compete with the likes of Samsung, HTC, Nokia, etc.

The requirements need to be where they are. They need to be where they are to keep the prices in check and to maximize potential marketshare.

Microsoft is not Apple. The standard is not lackluster. The standard is believable and the OS runs more than fine on it.

If the OS was lagging and choking, you'd have a point, but there are Android and a Windows Mobile (which can run Android, etc.) phone that used that processor and it has absolutely no problems with Multi-Tasking, etc.

Think a little.

IMO, staying a generation behind is actually a good choice, as long as Microsoft can guarantee support for phones for about ~2 years or so before they drop them, as newer phones with more capable hardware are introduced.

It will keep prices down, and price is ultimatly the most imporant factor when making a purchase. The OS itself is fine :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] ohgood:
talked with a salesperson today about wmp7 and how it was / wasn't selling in retail. she said she can sell an iphone or an android phone in less than 15 minutes including hellos and credit.

she said the wp7 phones catch people with how smooth it is, but confuses them with the cropped text, and having to search around to find settings or special functions.

she also admitted they were not pushing the wp7 devices at all, since iphones are dead easy to sell, and the android devices generally have customers 'built in' when they walk in the door: ex: "I want a 'droid xyz."

the iphone folks generally already know they want a whatever-size-here iphone, and get it on contract.

the android folks generally already know they want a whatever-the-maker-here phone, and ADD IT to their contract like add-a-line or whatever upgrade they can. (hmm, interesting)

the wp7 phones just aren't getting attention from customers, so they're not getting effort from the sales folks.

i guess you could attribute it to the marketing campaign. (got me)
[Windows Phone 7 General] fixxxer2008:
ive yet to see a dell venue pro out on display. i knew this would happen. yes android is the top seller so that's what the reps will be pushing. i also think once the cdma iphone hits in 2011 that will also surpass wp7 sales, possibly even androids. the wp7 devices are very nice with great build quality as i got to play with the hd7 at walmart. BUT alot of people are not sold on the metro UI. i honestly think it's the worst part of the platform. too many simple features were left out of the os before release. i mean no way to even take a screenshot? really microsoft? :rolleyes:

seems like more of a dumbphone than a smartphone atm. to put it bluntly microsoft have as much of an uphill battle here as palm/hp do when and if they decide to release a newer webos phone.

ill buy a focus or hd7 when it's cracked, jailbroken and custom UI's come out. until then my evo suits me just fine.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fixxxer2008:
care to share what "issues" android deals with? :rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
The bigger problem is Microsoft's terrible marketing. Those commercials are so stupid and I don't see how they are trying to sell a phone based off the fact that it supposedly takes you 2 seconds more to read a text or press your camera button on other devices?

Wow, good thing you made an entirely new OS for that...