yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G Android Development] tyler.durden:
HTC's non-idiots also took 4 or 5 months to unlock the FPS on the Evo, and probably just stole netarchys code when they finally did, lol.

I never called anyone a name myself, but this certainly is getting pretty heated over such a simple subject. I don't see what is so hard for those that don't think this is safe to just stay out of the thread and stop arguing page after page. You would swear that the kernel is literally killing people by the way some of you are acting. It's ridiculous....yeah there are a couple cases that phones got smoked and SBC is getting blamed. But there are also several hundreds of us that haven't experienced anything negative. Sure the overall life of the battery may suffer but even HTC's 'quietly brilliant' method isn't going to make your battery last the rest of your life. All batteries lose charge and I doubt this kernel is going to make a decrease in life noticeable. I'm sure we will all have upgraded to something newer by the time that ever happens anyway.

It's just dumb the way people are acting over this. Arguing isn't going to get anywhere, except maybe to piss off the dev MS and lead him to stop working on kernels altogether. And that will screw a lot of people that actually want to keep this thing around.
[EVO 4G Android Development] mattykinsx:
No, it's dumb that it's justifiable and a-okay to ignore warnings from people who know what they're talking about on this matter simply because you personally haven't seen the issue at hand.

What's ridiculous is that a simple warning can't just be posted.
[EVO 4G Android Development] Product F(RED):
Trust me, I am one of the more reasonable ones. I caution people, but I don't go crazy over it.

This I especially agree with. There's no reason to go crazy over it. But people don't have to try and act macho and call out the rest of us. By all means, post the kernels, but put a warning.
[EVO 4G Android Development] scooter185:
First off absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. I don't think anyone has been using these kernels long enough to get an accurate sample of what it does to the battery. Which is why all you people shoving the fingers into your ears and saying "nananana It's working ok for me, so it must be safe" is so frustrating to those of us who are being cautious about this. Especially when it's fairly common knowledge amongst engineers (and with the internet anyone who cares to look) that Li-ion batteries aren't designed to be charged this way.

As for as the insurance claims go: a.) by rooting your phone you're assuming responsibility and liability of anything that happens to it. and b.) the insurance would not accept a claim when you knowingly did something that could cause failure. Claims cover electrical and mechanical failures from defects: a bad solder on a pin in the PCB causes CPU failure, NOT because you OC'd it and caused the CPU to fry. and using different kernels is not normal wear and tear.
[EVO 4G Android Development] fonseca898:
I'm loving SBC-HTC-#15. My phone never even gets warm when sitting overnight in the dock. This with MikFroyo 4.3 is giving me the best battery life I have experienced to date with my Evo.

It's a sad and silly thing for these kernels to be removed. By the same logic much of this site should be censored.
[EVO 4G Android Development] mattykinsx:
Not the same logic at all.
[EVO 4G Android Development] scooter185:
People seem to think that bricking the phone is the same as battery failure. Most of the stuff found on this site could make the phone a paper weight if directions aren't followed. However, when you start screwing with the battery you could potentially be turning the phone into a bomb. Worst case scenario is the battery becomes unstable and vents or explodes, neither of which would be pleasant.

Note I'm not saying these kernels are going to do that, but comparing it to simply bricking the phone shows a lack of understating the danger of screwing with the battery as opposed to radio firmware.
[EVO 4G Android Development] ChrisAC84:
Did I miss something? Why were the kernels removed? What's this about exploding batteries? I feel so misinformed lol, can someone explain what happened to these kernels, and why? And if this kernel is indeed unsafe, what do I need to look for in a new kernel in order to ensure it is safe?
[EVO 4G Android Development] riassan:
can u PM sbc #15 if you dont mind. thanks
[EVO 4G Android Development] scooter185:
Btw here's what can happen when electrical circuits fail. This isn't the best analog, as it's a capacitor not a battery, and it's application is for induction motor stopping and starting. The point is circuits can fail, and doing something that has the potential to cause failure doesn't seem worth the extra hours of use IMO. Especially when a battery failing could be a lot worse, being as it relies on a chemical reaction.

But those of you who don't mind the potential risk, the more power to you. Like I posted before, I don't believe the kernels have been in use long enough to accurately determine what happens to the battery, and an explosion is the worst case scenario. It's always prudent to prepare for the worst though, especially with experimental tech/code.
[EVO 4G Android Development] housry23:
What I don't understand is why some people are making my decision for me. Yes there is a risk with these kernels, but there is a benefit that goes along with that risk. I want SBC. I have read the horror stories and I still want it. I have read the posts by the battery experts and electrical experts warning how unsafe it is to over charge these batteries and I still want SBC. I should be able to make my own informed decision on whether or not to use these kernel in MY phone. I paid for my phone and I want to modify it the way I want it, not the way someone else thinks I should because it might be unsafe. Where are these people when I get into my car and forget to buckle up? Oh yeah, it is my choice whether or not I buckle up, so only me and the cops can do anything about it. Are you the XDA Cops? Please leave the thread if you don't like SBC and let the folks that do like it use it. You use your favorite kernel and I'll use mine. I am not saying these kernels are safe or unsafe. I'm just saying that despite all the warnings and the risk involved I still want to use SBC. This is an open community and there are going to be things you don't like on it. Get over it. Let's put a warning on the kernel and post it back up.
[EVO 4G Android Development] nugzo:
EXACTLY! i think the masses that have a problem with this, mainly have a problem with the OP saying there is absolutely no way that this kernel can harm your battery/phone/house/wife. If the OP would just post a warning, most of the naysayers would be happy. People like Matty i believe are just trying to look out for peoples best interests... is that a bad thing?? Really, is it? You guys act as if we're upset that you get good battery life, and we dont want you to have it. We just want proper cautions posted so people can make INFORMED decisions on whether to use this or not, thats all. I mean really, why do you guys think we're giving this subject a hard time? Just because we want to argue? Start ****? We just cant stand people having better battery life than us? Get real people. We just want cautions posted, thats all. ;);););););););)
[EVO 4G Android Development] Anon9mouz:
Yes that's all me what I said like pages back own risk just like how roms and other kernels is at ur on risk. +1 for that im a supporter and will be. Our choice so f u take it how it is regaurdless of what we want to do. Sprint 9 times out if 10 will replace it bc they wanna be the better company that stands out for everything, bc last time I remember insurance on phones was like 200 on top end phones when it came to damage like cracked screen ect. but now its covered if u have insurance blew my mind when I heard that. Only thing he said was u had to pay was water damage. So tellin me that if my chick makes me mad and I wanna break my phone im strait and that somthin that makes me stick with them as being a customer bc I can do it. Yes maybe somtime just bc I can do it but just knowing just makes it better. Now that a protection plan.
[EVO 4G Android Development] AbsolutZeroGI:
I still have the kernel (SBC #15 v7) for sense roms on my computer.

If anyone still wants it then PM me and I'll upload it and send you the link.

Of course, there's a warning, this could ruin your battery. I use it and have for 2 weeks now with zero problems, but as always beware.

If this gets me removed from the forums, so be it, but I'm sick and tired of this witch hunt. I got, I use it and dammit I'm going to share it.
[EVO 4G Android Development] howdyace:
Don't know why some overzealous nutjobs couldn't leave well enough alone.

Its dangerous. We get that. You shouldn't because some people who are well versed say you shouldn't.

There was much talk (warnings) in the general section and in this very thread. Still said nutjobs piss and moan.

Not right at all. None of these experts know for sure. None are htc employees. They have as much inside info into the battery and circuits as ms does.

None.

Its a shame the way this was handled. MS has been polite and approachable in his own thread and yet most of the naysayers weren't.

All because they thought they weren't being heard.
[EVO 4G Android Development] fixxxer2008:
i think MS is playing it safe and it's a great idea for the devs to come together and look at the mod and see if they can improve it. sbc and most of these custom kernels are good at keeping your battery life good only when you do not use your phone. as most have said, the battery actually seems to drop much quicker when in use rather than using the stock htc kernel. i know as i tested this out last night myself.

as far as batteries being ruined or smoking it's really all speculation as to what caused it. better safe than sorry as i always say.
[EVO 4G Android Development] aimbdd:
Everyone looking for a new kernel should go follow the savage one. It will be putting the sbc version back up shortly. Why does everyone care so damns much what other people do?
[EVO 4G Android Development] stkiswr:
As far as sbc charging I have been using netarchy 4.3 no havs, no uv w sbc and have had zero issues. I charge from 10 pm to 6 am and when I unplug my battery temp is nevet higher than 85 deg. I use a seidio 3500 and this has been my most stable setup after dialing it in w setcpu. Freak battery problem...maybe using it on the charger is a bad idea. I dont have to do that due to my battery. I go 2 full days then charge w med to heavy usage and am around wifi at my house. I like the sbc charging and feel it should be up to the user BUT y'all shouldnt be charging and using. Im sure bat temp really go up

Sent from my Fresh EVO
[EVO 4G Android Development] mattykinsx:
Who taught you that calling names because you don't agree with other's position strengthens your position on this, OR ANY, subject?

Because they should be slapped.

Also, polite?

Does that include complete dismissal of experts concerns and the sarcasm that goes with it?

The underlined is the only requirement that I, and many others including the experts and even XDA, have.

But ms has pretty much refused [http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=10559934&postcount=4125]

More evidence of that is his complete dismissal of other people's claims on his twitter.

http://twitter.com/markimcomewitit

Tweet: @loveis234 sbc isn't killing batteries. There are other factors that those users haven't pointed out yet.

6:44 PM Jan 10th via Twitter for Android

If anyone is "making my decision for me", as you put it,

it's the one that won't simply warn people of potential risks

that we all [THAT'S INCLUDING PEOPLE THAT STILL WANT THE KERNEL AND DEFEND SBC] agree exist.

Put up the warning, remove the comment about it not possibly damaging batteries, and then you can post whatever kernel you want.

As far as I'm aware that's all us "nutjobs"[per howdyace] have wanted done.

That includes XDA whom had ms remove the kernels.
[EVO 4G Android Development] SpaceMonky:
this is the most rediculous thing i have ever seen on here.

i guess we better start removing all the ROMS too because they might brick your phone.
[EVO 4G Android Development] Admiral2145:
read this and relax

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/overcharging-protection-chips-inside-evos-batteries/

just shows people who bought cheap batteries got what they payed for....

So, to all of you who assumed that the SBC kernels could indeed override this, as there is a hardware protection in place, the device cannot be overcharged or rather charged past its safety limits.
[EVO 4G Android Development] mattykinsx:
What is it about reading one post above to see all that it is that has been requested, by XDA as well, that is so hard?

There's been suggestion by at least one engineer and a battery technician, on these forums, that the protection chips don't exactly completely protect against it.

Am I saying that is FACT? Not at all, but it has been suggested.

Still does not mean a warning cannot be posted.
[EVO 4G Android Development] SpaceMonky:
screw that. i support ms's decision to stand his ground.
[EVO 4G Android Development] nugzo:
lol @ nutjobs. yeah we r the nutjobs. Anyone who wants people to be safe is a nutjob now, awesome. Really i could care less about the real nutjobs around here who talk all the bs about let me do what i want with my phone and leave me alone. If i want to burn my house down i have the right lol. They are gonna do what they want to do regardless.

It's the people who read the OP and think great i should try this out, i could use some more battery life, he says its safe so lets do it. Those are the people that need to see a warning. While we may not have hard evidence yet that the kernel is causing these failures, it has been accused. we dont have evidence that it is not causing them either. I have seen a lot of informative threads and links that are scary and make this kernel and it's trickle charge method very questionable. Untill the case is proven in either direction, there should be a warning. It appears XDA feels the same.
[EVO 4G Android Development] thenewguy821:
Just a couple things to say here...

First off, to the MORONs who keep saying MS is just a "Coder" who is ignoring all the evidence from Professional Electrical engineers and Battery specialists. Where is the PROOF these "Claimed" specialists/engineers are actually what they say they are? Anyone can SAY they are something, just to try to make their rants "more valid". How about this, IF the SBC mod is proven to be the problem, I will chime in as a "Structural Engineer" and tell people how to make their houses safe if they choose to use the kernel...

This last 8-10 pages of this RANT were due to one idiot claiming "These kernels make your phone explode" then posting a link. He then got offended when people attacked him for spreading lies, and claimed they were attacking him for posting a link. NO, they were attacking you for your ill-informed comment that the kernel will make batteries explode.

Has anyone here actually SEEN a Li-ion/Li-Po battery failure? I would guess not, with as many "battery will explode" and "Turn your phone into a Bomb" comments as I have seen. I HAVE seen Li-Po/Li-Ion battery failures. A 6"x 2 1/2" x 1" - 6000 Mah battery rated at 30C (Used by Hobbyists in Remote control cars) which can handle immediate draws of 180 Amps, still only yields a 2-3 foot tall flame, and this only happens under EXTREME situations. MOST of the time under slightly more than normal use, the battery will swell and the override circuit will prevent the battery from being able to be used or charged. I have never seen a battery explode from misuse. Our phone batteries are MUCH smaller, and use WAY less power than the batteries I mention. IF they were to fail on the dangerous side, it could still do damage, but nowhere near the damage some people are claiming. IF the concern is still there about "What if the battery ignites while everyone is sleeping?", an $18 investment could save your house/family IF that problem happened. Li-Po charging bag

Now, on to the actual kernels. If the problems have all been noted as coming from ONE variant of the kernel (Savage mod AOSP), what is to say that the developer for that kernel didn't tweak the SBC settings a little? All the evidence shown so far has told me, is to not use the Savage mod version of the kernel. I have used a few of the Netarchy based kernels, and am currently using the v8 on Myn's ROM. Which leads me to a question for MS--- I have been getting GREAT battery life with the v8 with Bump charging on my phone (Medium to Heavy usage, phone off charger at 5:00 am, still at 40%+ at 11:00pm) Is there any chance that the Bump charge method you use in the v8 kernel can be added to the Sense based kernels as well? This would also give a "Safe" alternative for the people who want the extended battery life, yet are still afraid of the SBC charge.
[EVO 4G Android Development] Tempest_Inc:
I don't know about any one else but I'd be willing to contribute to setting up a FTP someplace else to host our files away from xda. I have a 4tb server that I can set up as a FTP as others have offered b4.

But why don't we all contribute to a fund to cover hosting and expended of operating a deticated space for ms. Some place else.

This drives me crazy this is a fourm of experimental Rome, kernels, roots . Why is this being singled out. We have to many variables OEM batteries, sedio 3500ma, El cheapo ebay versions, not to mention ones sprint has released to address our battery issues. We have peopleuseing chargers from any and every manufacturer on the planet. I (one user) am using the stock HTC, a Griffin dual 12v accessory for my car, a palm pre 12v charger in the g/F's car, Bluetooth charger, as well as a sedio. Not to mention a hodgepodge Of cables for each of these chargers.

There are too many variables at work here to blame just ms's kernel.

As for what others have said, will continue to use ms's kernels until my phone, battery, and or house burn to the ground.

If you don't like it leave, this is why the US is going down the drain like it is. If I don't like it you can't have it and it just be evil. (Yes I know this forum Is larger than the US.)

I just want to end with saying the ignorance of society sickens me to my core.
[EVO 4G Android Development] terryazthompson:
First I would like to thank ms for taking on this project. I would love to have more juice as I am on my evo constantly.

I have not used his kernals yet because I do not have any confidence that ms has knowledge about electricity or batteries. Let me explain... 1) early on in this thread he showed he did not understand the difference between current (ma) and charge (mah) nor did he seem to care. 2) this post is riddled with the term trickle charging. SBC does not trickle charge, it is a constant voltage charge. 3) whatever else SBC does to your battery, it is very likely to shorten its lifespan as Li batteries don't last as long when charged to 100% and especially when kept at 100%, this is basic knowledge off Li batts yet no mention of this being a potential downside.

Now I personally don't care about longevity, the batts are relatively cheap, and I think there is a good possibility that SBC will be found not to ruin batts or make them blowup.

But good chance is not enuf for me when it comes to my safety. So, I hope that ms will use this opprotunity to collaborate with some knowledgeable people, and with their input and all of you testers out there, I can be confident that the tremendous effort ms put into this project will safely give me the battery life I want.
[EVO 4G Android Development] thenewguy821:
With all the talk about the kernels "shortening the life of our batteries", and the comments from the "professionals" that Li-Ion batteries are only good for a set number of charges, has anyone considered the option that the amount of life expectancy that gets degraded from the kernel offsets the 3-4 charges a day the phone needs without the kernel?
[EVO 4G Android Development] numus:
Well. I dont want to say to much on this subject, but i can tell you there was merit on both sides of the argument in this one..

I will start this off that i have my degree in chemistry, but my primary focus is in radioactive materials. Chemical cell was just a side thing i studied.

One of the primary problems with charging to date is a temperature dependency.

Another one is relying on an ADC circuit that can be influenced by noise.

If anyone saw any increase with the SBC kernel (hell i did), make sure you take a look at the temperature data.

What i observed was a temperature increase during the charging phase (no duh), and then a plateau effect and decrease after charge was complete. Now here is were one of the problems relies.

Voltage is influenced by resistance and amperage (current) in the simple formula V= I*R. The problem comes into play when you look at resistance as a temperature dependent function

R = R(0)(1+(alpha*(delta(t))) or simply put, an increase in temperature increases resistance from initial.

Now write the first equation to V/R = I ... as you can see if resistance increases, voltage has to increase also to maintain the same current. Basically as the battery gets hotter, what the phone thinks the voltage is is higher then what it should be. This in turn actually decreases the actual current in the battery.

Simply put, The hotter your phone gets, the less current your battery will store when the phone thinks it is full. Now if the original reports are true (I have a lot of experience with the samsung moment battery and kernel configuration but not the evo) after the phone completes a full charge, the charger kicks off. By forcing a trickle charge effect (as the SBC kernel attempted to do) as the battery cools off, it would actually charge the battery to a real 100%. The problem with trickle charge is maintaining a constant charge cycle on a lithium ion battery is a very bad idea.

A true solution would be to redesign the stepped charging procedure (lithium-ion has to charge in a variable voltage charger, hense why you should NEVER put a lithium-ion battery in a nickle metal or nickle cadium charger) to actually stop the charging cycle every so often. But then it would take forever to actually charge your phone.

Or you can simply charge your phone in your fridge :)

This isn't exactly true. Lithium-Ion batteries have a set number of DEEP charges. A bunch of shallow charges to a lithium ion battery is actually better then 1 deep charge.
[EVO 4G Android Development] collin1806:
So which kernel is the latest one to use?
[EVO 4G Android Development] bignibb:
So is 132 a havs or a nohavs?
[EVO 4G Android Development] TheDoctor1971:
I tried flashing this last night and my phone refused to charge at all. It registered 89% charge for like an hour. Didn't even acknowledge that it was plugged in and the led was off. I unplugged it and plugged it back in.. said charging for a second and then it said it was unplugged again. Crazy. I flashed one of king's kernels and it said it was at 100% and the led was green. I'm thinking there's something more going on than the kernel though. I get the same thing on the pc with usb now too. It detects it and then disconnects immediately. I can't get adb to work etc. I'm gonna have to do some digging into this one -_-. ( I tried calk's usb fix as well)
[EVO 4G Android Development] NewZJ:
132 is no havs
[EVO 4G Android Development] ms79723:
131 for HAVS. 132 for No-HAVS.

Which build were you using?
[EVO 4G Android Development] NewZJ:
try 131, there was an issue with a release yesterday that caused led to blink and battery to show an error