yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Bacon cookies ftw!! :D

Helping out people is not bad. Those people will eventually learn something (hopefully) and could become the next best thing to ever grace our fora. This place is about sharing knowledge and not about "making my phone kewl" as pulser quoted a few posts ago. Knowledge should be shared without prejudice or pre-existing concepts that the person requesting it will have no idea what to do with it.

Again, as annoying as it may seem, people asking questions are not to be flamed. Ignore them if you don't feel like replying, but don't flame... that is what we (mods) ask of you guys.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
I manage all the news writers and have let go a few for doing exactly what you are talking about here :)
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Agree, if you are going to mod the phone then essentially you should be accepting that you are giving up warranty. But, I echo Scrizz's frustration with alot of the bad Noobs behavior, but we all were noobs at one time and someone's kindness helped me become adept at modding these phones (my 7th smart phone now), so i try to remember their helping me and pass that on. it is the repeat idiot I ignore............
[Vibrant Android Development] cyberpyr8:
LOL! "And get off my lawn you darn kids!" :)

I agree that this is not a newbie friendly forum just by nature but there are some answers here that you can't find anywhere else. If it wasn't filled with the very talented people that are here I still would be sitting around with a bricked phone.

We need to have the new users start in one area where they can ask "how do I use Odin?" and get answers without being bashed. The other forums like Dev need to be for the serious users with experience and less junk posts.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
Not likely to really work in my eyes. There's a NW team, who work to guidelines etc, and a review panel would just become a group to bribe to find your ROM best IMHO...

And getting quality content out them would be tough, as it would need to be regularly updated...

Well... There's no way to tag an individual thread, but you can tag the thread using the tools below. That isn't really much help though :(

All I will say is that people DO NOT read the first post, in my experience.

I had to clean 12 pages out a thread that was hours old, due to people spouting what was basically nonsense all over the place. Every single post was addressed in the thread with the statement "do not reply to this thread, go HERE to ask questions and talk. Do not post bug reports, suggestions, feedback or questions here, do so HERE. Only post development content here if you fix something." (I paraphrased it so the thread won't show if searched on google, but it was another device)

And did anyone take note? Nope. 12 pages of replies deleted... All doing something that was explained NOT to be done in the OP...

OP was pretty annoyed and took some persuading to try again, with a warning from me below, telling people to read, not post.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Funny anecdote.... I had a user asking how to jailbreak an EVO in the Vogue General section at one point. Tempting as it may look to flame someone like that or to tell them how to search, members in the Vogue fora (one of my home forums) just took the high road and only replied if they had anything constructive to say. The member was directed to the stickies in the EVO and particularly to unrEVOked threads for the help he needed.

I know for a fact that this kind of question in here would have been flamed out of existence, but I want to see this same kind of behavior by members emulated across XDA.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
There is the site-wide Q&A forum, but tbh such an area needs to be device specific... And it's called "Vibrant Q&A".

j/k

But the thing is, the question "how do I use odin" shouldn't need to be asked IMHO. I don't own a samsung device, and don't know what odin is (OK I lied, I do, from dealing with reported posts... but I can easily pretend I don't know)...

1) I open google.

2) I type "site:xda-developers.com odin"

3) I get a list of results (http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=site:Xda-developers.com+odin) for my results there...

4) I see this link (http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=748074)

5) I click that link

6) I realise it's too complex, so I return to the google page

7) I refine my query to "site:xda-developers.com what is odin"

8) I get this results page: http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=site:Xda-developers.com+what+is+odin

9) I click the first and second links, and read them. I now know what ODIN is, and have a bookmarked link to http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=728809 which will help me with anything from rooting to GPS to who the forum area mod is...

10) I didn't hit that "New thread" button.

Time to do that? 1 minute. More time spent typing out my thought process here than it took me to get the answer :)
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
We should have no mercy on people who continue to be n00bs.

some ppl don't even try to search or read.

they want people to do all the work for them.

It amazes me all the people who want everything in a flashable zip.

IMHO(flashable zips) ruin most of the fun. :p

I don't have a problem with zip for things like ROMs, modems, etc.

replacing a camera.apk does not need a flashable zip.

I might just be fighting a battle I cannot win against the Microwave generation.

;)

xD

I've had quite a lot of people pm me on how to do basic things for multiple devices.

what I do, depending on the question, is link them to the "device specific 'bible'",

and believe it or not, they fix the problem themselves.

I believe instead of spoon feeding the answers, we should link them to a thread that has the answer or the "device specific 'bible'" if it is a basic question.

Just my 2 candied BaconZ

mmmm
[Vibrant Android Development] Master™:
lol Scrizz, that is a little unnecessary.. ;)

(I want to see you beg for mercy type of moment? lol)

But there are threads started in the general that shouldn't be and they only create problems like "Wannabe Mods" that is something I have seen in the past.. haha, oh how that turned out..

I see threads like that as "Problematic" but some others don't..
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
YES!! but then, you are assuming they can think this out for themselves. I manage dozens of people and my experience is that only 5% can employ accreditive reasoning to an unknown situation......and there lies the problem. Trying to train them :)
[Vibrant Android Development] phattchumpy:
I like the idea that has been mentioned of posting ROM releases outside of the dev forum. I for one have made some posts on these threads in the dev forum but have never actually manipulated any code or configuration of a ROM by hand. Strictly speaking, my posts concerning a ROM release (answer something I may know about, give feedback, etc.) do not belong in the dev forum, I am adding nothing to the conversation of how to actually perform development. Also, most of the flaming that I have run across has been perpetrated by people like me who consume the ROMs. Its almost like being a power user gives some people a false sense of superiority that they feel they need to exercise. I find the posts made by the actual people that produce deliverables (those that actually do belong in a dev forum) to be much less of a problem.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
that's the thing.

If they come to this advanced user/dev site, they should have the ability to do a search.

If they require training, they haven't read enough.

;)
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
I agree;) But the ones that do come in you can't beat them (though the idea does have an appeal). Trying to get all the serious players to behave with a single behavior is the only way i see improving the situation....and that is a hard task !
[Vibrant Android Development] RobBull69:
I have no problem with noobs per se. We were all noobs at some point and there are a lot of noobs that become quite resourceful quickly. I think Scrizz hit it on the head - eternal noobs have become an issue. People who want quick answers to questions answered 100 times before even though they've been using the site for a couple of years. I try not to answer their posts to discourage them from posting whereas I'll try to answer a question from a true noob and point them in the right direction. A new user section wouldn't be a bad idea. Include some stickies with tutorials. It could cut down on some of the clutter and hostility.
[Vibrant Android Development] RobBull69:
Wannabe mods are a close second behind eternal noobs. People clutter a thread by telling others not to clutter. If that's not the definition of irony than I don't know what is.:p
[Vibrant Android Development] cyberpyr8:
I Googled for specific problems and found the answer was here too. But I think that for people that come across this site and aren't very tech savvy they will take the path of least resistance. It is easier for them to post a new thread up rather than figuring out what terms to search for or heaven forbid, google "site:xda-developers.com what is odin". It happens in all sites.

I don't think the problems with the Vibrant forums are caused (for the most part) by the people who have been here a while. It seems to be the hit and run users that are looking for a quick fix because they thought that they could update their phone and something went wrong. A lot of the out of place posts are those "OMG I bricked my phone" first posts by people in a panic.
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
LMAO......... this is true the morality police.......... go figure
[Vibrant Android Development] emonero:
I think that referring to new users as "n00bs" doesn't help at all....
[Vibrant Android Development] Jackdog89:
+1

I agree. Of course you can always use google, just edit the search settings for XDA.
[Vibrant Android Development] Whitehawkx:
I absolutely agree with this statement. When I first started poking around this site I was terrified of things like Odin and Kernels. The first month I started off by doing very simple mods, like adding an accurate battery mod and the captivate camera. Thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. Heck, I don't think I even created a handle for the first 2 weeks or so. After about a month I got brave and decided to explore some of the custom roms. Then I got even braver and flashed Voodoo... can you guess what happened next? I flashed something without disabling of course! After that I spent roughly 3 hours doing google searches and xda searches. Ended up having no choice but to learn Odin. Now I use Odin almost daily. The point I'm trying to make is we all started off as noobs, but all the information required to learn and advance yourself is right here and ready for the taking. If I can take the time to sift through the forums and figure things out then I don't see why everyone else can't do the same.
[Vibrant Android Development] lezouave:
+1 to a new user forum! And (for the vibrant forum) sticky GPS, rooting, sdcard fix etc., topics. I think this would have very quick positive results, new people would be esteemed, and errant repetitive posts in the wrong places would be more noticeably wrong-headed.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
look at the Vibrant ROM threads.

people are complaining about things like a ROM not containing SWYPE. gmaFb!

It is my belief that ROM threads should be about bugs not about people bi****ng because it doesn't include SWYPE, TB, or ROMmanager...

Another thing is people need to cut all the BS speculation.

all it is doing is hurting the site and adding more garbage to the forum.
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
So conform or get banned? ;)
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Back to a more specific topic, what is important to me is keeping all the Devs participating here in the XDA forum....all the flaming and bad behavior that has pushed away some of the devs is not healthy for XDA regardless how someone might personally feel about a particular Dev.

As a group, it is an imperative that we revamp the environment so devs are being bombarded with adolescent twaddle and find it condusive to be here rather than abusive (as it has as of late)
[Vibrant Android Development] phattchumpy:
+1

Refusing to RTFM isn't really a function of being a new user or a person's technical background, it's a character flaw of an individual that may be present regardless of expertise (I've worked with people who've been employed as software developers for a long time and still ask before reading/searching).
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
I was in a very similar boat myself. Although I was flashing with Odin when my phone crashed and I had to find how to get into the download mode. That was some of the scariest time ever.

I think this could be easier however if we could maybe keep the Wiki up to date with essential information and links. And I think all of us needs to take ownership of the wiki. If we have useful information, let's add it to the Wiki! :)
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
LOL not that harsh....... "we are all clones" :p no the systemic problem is getting people to understand the difference between being clever and being experienced. Unfortunately, most think of themselves as Einstein when in reality they are just another "cookie monster" and part of the masses.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
ok, let's use n3wbz then.

:p
[Vibrant Android Development] jmcghee1973:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=831906

Great example of clutter.... Not to mention this post originally started as Beta1 but has every post from Beta1 to Beta3 ... How can you decipher all of that mess even if you not nOOb...

Not pickin on Som btw.. :)

This makes my suggestion of only the DEV post with a Bug report/answer system seem so much better IMO
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
The Rule ?

if you ain't knowdin how to odin ....then don't be commin' in the devs and moddin'

:D:rolleyes::p
[Vibrant Android Development] Zylograth:
Answer their question, and then if you really feel it needs to be moved, alert the mods using the correct button and go on about your day. it does not help anyone but your own ego to berate someone for posting in the wrong section. Just be glad they got the right phone LOL
[Vibrant Android Development] Keslynn:
I think that this is where ROM review threads could come in handy. Reviews would probably note the absence or presence of included apps. Someone who is too lazy to dl the apps from the Market or to find out how to mod the ROM would (hopefully) steer clear and find something that suits them better.
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
And just to add to that. It doesn't really help your ego either. It is a detriment to everyone, especially the person who does the berating.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
True :mad:

all the fanboyism needs to get out.

Another thing is devs should not be allowed to post in another devs thread.

I've seen many times when a dev goes in to another devs thread to basically state their competitor's ROM/kernel/etc... does not work.

;)
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Very true...

Here is what I propose to make dev sections (and rom threads) a bit more like they should:

1. If someone asks something, reply with a useful answer or not at all (outcome: reduced flaming, reduced number of posts in a rom thread). Meaningless questions will get buried quickly and the person asking will have no other choice but to search.

2. Devs to post clearly in the OP if the work is original or borrowed (thanking the dev in question for a specific reason, not just "thanks to xyz" but "thanks to xyz for providing abc") (outcome: kanging gets reduced, people will know what they are flashing and if problems arise, they will go to the source of the rom).

3. Accusations to be made via pm or reported to mods. Finger-pointing and name calling should be eliminated (outcome: flaming greatly reduced)

4. If you have feedback for a chef/dev, post supporting evidence (screenshots, logcats, crash logs, etc). A simple "it doesn't work" is not feedback and as such can be reported to mods for deletion. (outcome: reduced flaming, reduced thread clutter)
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
Sorry for coming back to this. But we do have a WIKI that is currently a very untapped source. We could very easily link ROMs, Mods, Original programs found on stock ROM etc there. Instructions on how to use Odin, links for Pit Files and Odin and more can be added there. Especially for things that are more static. Then we a question comes along we point people to the Wiki and to our resourceful Vibrant Bible and alot of issues can be resolved.

Someone ones said (going along what was said above)

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for a lifetime"

We need to be helpful, but also we need to help people how to learn so that it sticks in their mind.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
True only if the devs are fighting amongst themselves. If the devs are collaborating, then there is nothing wrong with this.

100% agree with the fanboyism part
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Yes this bothers me as well really bad form........ makes that dev look cheezy
[Vibrant Android Development] Jackdog89:
Maybe the solution is to ignore their question if it's in the wrong section, or to reply with a link to the correct section and nothing else.

Someone stated already that the reason novice users are posting the same question over and over again in the DEV section is because they know that they will get a faster response.

What would happen if everyone in the DEV section ignored the question or gave the same response, for example, a link to the correct section?

I think it would teach them to learn for themselves and follow the guidelines at the same time.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a parenting perspective. When a child does something wrong, you don't yell at them (flame) and reward them (answer the question) at the same time.

Just my 2 cents.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Yup... completely agree.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
IMHO people should not be allowed to critique a ROM, if they've never flashed one from a diff developer.

I think the Vibrant forum is so garbage because most of the people in there have never used another android device before.

Granted the same can be said for other devices, but for some reason we got the lazy ones.

If I can take 30minutes to search and solve my problem, you can too.

I don't have a problem with making things easier to access, but don't come into my thread asking, "How do I flash this?".

I answer as many questions as I can.

People really need to learn how to value what they have and other people's time.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
Meh, I disagree with the last bit. But BIG agreement with the first bit :) I look after other devs' threads when they're away, and they do the same in return if I'm not about. We even recommend each others' ROMs when one is too busy to make a new build, and the other has a more up-to-date one out...

There's no agreement or relationship between us in terms of "I'll help you, you help me" - we just do it to be polite.

If they go in to berate, then it should be reported for either flaming or hijacking the thread. If it's within the rules, then it should stay.

Remember the devs here should be working TOGETHER to achieve things, not alone, trying to steal users etc...
[Vibrant Android Development] phattchumpy:
Exactly, but the only way to accomplish that is to release the ROMs that contain everything (nero, etc.) in another forum. Otherwise new users will come to the dev forum to download and flash complete solution ROMs and see the user-centric discussion taking place on the release thread. A percentage of those users will for whatever personal reason be unable to RTFM and will post irritating questions. Figuring out how to get everyone to do their own diligence is not a solvable problem. Maybe I'm getting too caught up in semantics, but these people (myself included) are not devs and are forced to participate in a dev forum because that is where ROMs that contain everything you need are released and discussed by their user base. The ROM threads that would be left in dev would be things like scrizz's jk6 modem release as that is not so much a complete one-stop-shop ROM.

In fact, the people who leave and go to their own sites are really doing just that: creating a forum for their releases/users.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
I have had a few rom threads myself. If I got a question asking "how do I flash this?", I normally just simply spent 20 seconds and replied with a "all the information in the first post". If they read that and come back with questions, then I reply further... I am helpful in nature though and I do have quite a bit of time to devote under most circumstances....
[Vibrant Android Development] phattchumpy:
+1

Discussion threads are a crazy knowledge base strategy
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
I don't mean to help etc.

IMHO, If you have nothing constructive to say(ie bug report, requested feedback, answer to a question, or positive affirmation)you need to GTFO of the thread.

that's IMO :D
[Vibrant Android Development] krook6023:
Here is the thing. While these type of suggestions are welcomed (XDA always wants to improve the site) XDA could make a bunch of changes regarding forum organization, member status & (insert change here), but the bottom line is people need to look at themselves and wonder…

“Am I part of the problem, or part of the solution?”

...the tone of this forum will not change from the top down…in needs to start from the bottom up. It is my firm belief that there are enough “good guys” to change this forum into what we want it to be…if everybody does their part…we can’t lose.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
I have one other suggestion (and this is something that worked wonders in the Hero CDMA forums a while back)...

How about an Off Topic thread to blow off steam in the General section of the Vibrant? (needless to say that is to abide by forum rules and etiquette as well, but at least should reduce some of the banter as well)
[Vibrant Android Development] overground:
Or just do not reply and hit the handy report button in the first post.
[Vibrant Android Development] Zylograth:
+1 for this LOL
[Vibrant Android Development] Master™:
Well, there is already an off-topic section for XDA... Do we really need another?

How about a redirect link to the Off-Topic section?
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
Don't get me wrong.

I speak my mind and I answer questions too.

:D

I'm not you slave.

I'm in the mindset that not everyone should have a modded phone/pc/electronic device..

It might be because I'm usually the one giving them technical support, but it kind of defeats the purpose of the mods if everyone has the same mods...

The internet is full of information.

You learn how to powder-coat, make an amplifier, build a PC, solder, hack a website, etc..

all that information can be had without asking a single question.

the same can be said for phone modding.

You can come to XDA READ and be able to get a brand new phone rooted, nand-unlocked, custom rom, OC/UV kernel without having to ask a single question.

The best way to get familiar with something is to break it and then learn how to fix it.

;)
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
I am dead serious.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
I thought the same thing back in the Hero, but this is what made people happy over there... which is why I am suggesting this here.

There are OT sections all over the site and keeps people from navigating away from their sections (and having 40 tabs opened at the same time :p)
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
well, what I need is to be able to come to a XDA device development forum, see new posts and not have to worry about them being more questions/bickering/QQ.

instead I want to be able to come to xda, and if I see new posts have them be about development.