yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Thanks for the idea. The phone does indeed have its flaws, but here is a basic point. XDA is not a manufacturer or a carrier support site. People expect that this site will solve every single problem as it they would have gotten their phones from us. Expecting and demanding answers... this is not what XDA is. We find solutions to issues and we share them. People come here for help daily and we should do the best we can to act as a community to help. That is my view after over 5 years of being a member here.

Agree with this. This is the reason why the Forum Specific Moderators were assigned throughout the site. The biggest problem is that "bad" users care little about what we have to say and do as they please. Just the other day, I had a user tell me to "send all of our rules to hell" (in a different section btw). So, there is a big issue with lack of respect, not only towards members in general, but towards everyone by many members. This is something that a common understanding should tackle.

N00b posts are good, and so are questions. Everyone has come here with questions ... me included (otherwise about 80% of the community wouldn't be here).

The 2 most prevalent issues with questions are:

1. Where the question gets posted

2. How the question is asked

To address the first one, we have requested this from everyone and will do so again. Flaming a member for asking something that had been answered XXXXXXXXXXXX number of times will do absolutely nothing but to fan flames. My rule of thumb for questions is:

1. If the question is in the wrong place, report it to the mods and we will make sure that it gets moved to the right section.

2. If you are not going to give a helpful answer, please do not reply (a lot of people will come quoting freedom of speech, but this is utter BS. Freedom of speech does not give you the right, under forum rules, to be disrespectful to anyone).
[Vibrant Android Development] :
I agree that it can be hard for a newcomer to find an answer to a question they have when there are so many posts. But that being said, I don't necessarily think reading through a large number of comments is a bad thing. It can let them know what else is going on with the rom since there is a good chance they will run into similar issues as well.

The idea of separate release threads could be good though.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
So having devs open new threads for new rom versions... that is actually a pretty good point. It would certainly avoid massive threads of the 2000+ page in length (my forum setup is for 10 posts per page, so that would mean 20,000 replies for a single rom thread). We could probably put something like that in place and it shouldn't be hard to enforce.
[Vibrant Android Development] Keslynn:
One question I see get asked ad nauseum in the dev threads is how to flash a ROM. Maybe the stickied bible threads could change title to show that the info is in there or maybe someone could write up and sticky a noob guide to flashing? Some of this could be laziness on the part of the person asking, but since it gets asked so often, it could also be that the info is hard to access.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
True, but based on my last comment, (and I have not gone through many rom threads in the Vibrant), but if you look at Myn Warm 2.2 in the EVO section.... that thread is almost 2000 pages long yet it is quite organized. I believe I only had to act one time in that thread since it was opened (and I am 1 of 2 mods who overview the EVO - toastcfh being the other one)
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Sticky guides are certainly a good way of going about addressing this issue. They work for the most part. You also have the Wiki, which is a rather untapped resource that people are not familiar with for the most part. I will personally try to promote it via the Portal, but I think it still lacks quite a bit of content to make it n00b proof.
[Vibrant Android Development] :
Well that would be informative, yes, but when my phone force closes or fails to perform because of a ROM that developer X created, and I know that it worked perfectly fine before and the new ROM for whatever reason is the likely culprit, then 2 things need to happen :

1. I want to be able to search for my answer to solve my problem no matter what the answer may be

2. I do not want to sort through 200 posts about how people are begging for Wi-Fi calling or Skype in a particular ROM, or whether OCLF or Voodoo is better for performance or their latest quadrant scores, etc.

I think the development of the thanks button was the best idea so far for this forum, and their needs to be better tools to keep the unnecessary comments out of development threads and in their rightful place
[Vibrant Android Development] ScratchSF:
Just to elaborate a bit more. I don't think that XDA should try to become the general support mechanism for Samsung or T-Mobile. Rather, once a developer releases their Custom ROM, the support of that ROM should either 1) be in a thread that is no longer in the Developer section, but a Support or ROM or Releases section, or 2) be moved to the developer's own forum.

Switching topics: I would like to raise the issue of donations. I think that there is some confusion, by both the donors and the donees as to what a donation means. Some developers have decided that a donation means that people get access to their ROMs sooner than others and/or have access to "donor sections" of their sites. Some feel that this is essentially the same as a purchase. I'm not sure of the answer as this is still evolving. But for a while it seemed like this as a hot button. Thoughts?
[Vibrant Android Development] Dbarker 2:
So far everything on here seems to be pretty productive and I think there are some great ideas. I do believe that having separate threads for separate releases would really help quite a bit in reducing clutter and for helping people find answers for their questions on specific releases.

I know this probably does happen already in most cases, but I believe that if developers have an issue with another developer regarding anything at all, they should use the PM function to resolve those issues. When a developer goes to another developers thread and starts calling them out on something, it just fans the flames and causes the "fans" of those developers to come out and everyone starts flaming each other which always causes the thread to go off topic. Private Messages are there for a reason, and I think they should be used more often in those cases.

I just want to agree with what was said above about unhelpful posts when someone asks a question in the wrong section or about something that was already asked. If you don't want to answer, then don't - but don't start insulting someone either and making them feel bad because they didn't know where to ask or because the search function came back with hundreds of results that didn't work for them. When someone has made a mistake on their phone and they think it is "bricked" then they can get pretty desperate (I know from first hand experience) and sometimes they just want their question to be seen and they need some specific help from someone. I don't condone people posting in the wrong section on purpose just so someone will see their question, but if that does happen, at least give them a link to a thread that will help them with their specific issue or give them the quick fix so they can fix their phone and hopefully learn the next time. The first time I soft bricked my phone I spent about 5 or 6 hours trying to figure things out by reading, and I finally fixed it, so the search feature does work - but I'll tell you one thing, I have been much more careful since then and am confident that I can get back from any soft brick that I might have.

Thanks for your work Mod's. I know it can be tough, and that it probably gets frustrating, but this town hall seems to be a good idea and I hope that we can restore a sense of sanity here. Thanks
[Vibrant Android Development] ScratchSF:
I agree. The challenge, even for someone is several steps above a newcomer, is trying to read through 2000 comments of a thread just to find that one thing that *might* be there. It can take hours. And even with the search button, it can take a while, but that assumes you have some clue what you needed in the first place. Personally, I use Google because some of the *answers* aren't in the Vibrant forum, but elsewhere - either on this site (e.g., Captivate, i9000) or on other sites.

That said, it is quite frustrating when someone asks a questions that has been answered on the previous page of postings.

So, as I type this, it does seem like there are two problems. 1) Some people aren't reading the previous posts (even just a few pages back) and 2) some threads are just too long to read through or search through if you don't have a clue what key words you should be using in the first place.
[Vibrant Android Development] Dougefresh91:
I think having a support forum or thread for specific roms is great idea. Leave the thread in the dev section for bug reports and logcats. I have seen devs specifically ask not to post anything but these two things, but no one seems to pay it any mind. Multiple times I've posted logcats that I'm 99% sure the devs will never see thanks to all the "how's battery life" posts.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
To give a perspective from a dev, I released a ROM which had a patch available from basically the start of release.

I had a statement in the OP that you would have issues with a modified keyboard and with a couple of apps missing from market, and to install the 1.7.1 update that was available.

The trouble was, after having about 3 pages of "I can't install twitter from the market", I just realised that NOBODY was reading what I had gone and written...

If people read all the OP's posts in a ROM thread (or at least the first three), then fair enough to fire away with questions, but when people ask the same questions over and over again, it can get pretty bad...

If the question isn't answered already, then it should be asked :) Questions are how we all learn...
[Vibrant Android Development] wacky.banana:
Hi,

The rule on donations is here (relevant parts bolded)..

8. Donations.

We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.

Does this clarify the position or do you wish me to expand further?

WB
[Vibrant Android Development] NotATreoFan:
We have a warning system in place currently. It is a combination of the Infraction system, and a forum Mods have access to that we use for tracking serial offenders. However, the process only works if people use the Report Post option to notify us, and do not resort to flaming or attacking.

As for restricting development access and/or dedicated ROM forums, I cannot go into specifics at this time, but we have been discussing a few options behind the scenes that if we can get them working right, this will be the new standard.

I understand that newer members may feel overwhelmed when they first come to XDA. I remember coming here 4 years ago and finding myself lost among all of the "dev speak" that was in the Wizard forums, but simply being new was not an excuse to not search for your answer before either creating a new thread.

People were willing to take the time to research everything in-depth before jumping into a custom ROM, or even making a change to the Windows registry.

Now with the advent of Android, and the process of changing a ROM so much simpler than WM was a few years ago, more people are trying it and most fail to research the advantages/disadvantages/risks beforehand, and only seem to post after they messed something up horribly and bricked their phone, or if they got the flashing process right but something doesn't work (like 4G on custom ROMs), they complain that this needs to be fixed immediately and that [insert ROM name here] is completely useless and utter crap until this happens.

Users need to come to terms with the name of our site. XDA Developers is not XDA Users of Cool ROMs. Anyone using software provided here needs to expect beta quality as best, given the experimental nature of what our devs do. If a product happens to be rock solid stable, great, but it cannot be expected of everything available; it is simply not realistic. In short, if you want a fully functioning phone with little to no issues, run stock. If you are willing to run the risk of certain minor aspects not working in exchange for better overall performance, then welcome to XDA, but you cannot complain and call something crap when you were warned well in advance.

In closing, I will say this:

There is never an excuse to not search. There is never an excuse to flame anyone. There is never an excuse for using someone's work and claiming it as your own. There is never an excuse to break the rules of the forum.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
The forum rules are pretty clear on this to me.

Such behaviour should not be happening in XDA, per rule 8 and 11 (IIRC)
[Vibrant Android Development] cyberpyr8:
I think it would be helpful to have the developers post the latest ROM in a new thread and allow them to have the first 2-3 comments for updates and close those threads to comments. All comments should be posted in a separate section. After 200-300+ pages of comments from the first ROM they posted until today it is hard to find answers and know where to start searching or reading from if you aren't a regular. I know I posted on page 483 of that TW post and page 265 of Master's so I start from an area I know I last looked. But if you come in today and start it is too hard to go through the posts.

At the very least a new post should be made for each new ROM. That way I know that a ROM that was updated today doesn't have comments dating back to June. Then as a new user here you can at least have a shot at looking through the posts to see the issues and comments.

Separating the ROMs from the comments would allow the developers a clean area to post in and the crap being posted in the threads would not distract from the people just looking for ROMs. They could post the changes and a link to the comments thread.

My $0.02. Thanks for letting us do this.
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Thank you for the suggestions. I agree with what you said. And if helping the person is not something you can do, just report the thread and we will move it out of Dev into General/Q&A.

One thing that I will direct at several Seniors (not going to say any names)... don't flame n00bs, especially if they ask the question in the right places (either in the corresponding thread or in Q&A.)
[Vibrant Android Development] Keslynn:
I personally have no issues with donators getting an earlier release or a little extra. It's like paying more for a hardback book instead of waiting for a paperback. Regardless since it's such a hot button issue, I think it should be kept off xda. Any donations made through xda should be gifts with no expectations or strings attached for either party. I think that special donator privileges and talk about it should be handled outside xda. Most devs have links to their personal sites in their sigs so it's easy enough to find.

I just hated to see a thread devolve into "I donated" or arguments about if donors were getting what they deserved for their donations or about admin decisions on the dev's personal fora. I think making the seperation clearer would help.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
To close the thread, it would prevent it getting bumped, so ROMs would need to be kept somewhere ROMs only, and we would need a system of ordering the threads...

Perhaps the threads could be sorted by star ratings? Alphabetical or last post sorting wouldn't work, as people would just abuse it to get their ROM to the top.
[Vibrant Android Development] ScratchSF:
Hi, I completely understand the rule and don't have a problem. What I'm trying to address are the behaviors and feelings of people in the forum.

Here's the scenario. Developer A releases a Custom ROM called ABC. User B likes the ROM and donates to Developer A. In return, Developer A gives User B 1) early access to Custom ROM DEF and access to a private section on the developers site. User C gets mad because User B is getting the ROM DEF a few days sooner than everyone else. In fact, User C feels that what is really going on is that User B has purchased the DEF ROM. This is further complicated when User D, who also donated and has early access to the ROM provides User C with a copy of the ROM *before* Developer A wanted the ROM to go public.

Personally, I don't have a problem with donations. But the scenario above summarizes some of what has been going on in the forum as is a source of some of the conflict. Now, I would have a problem is Developer A *only* made their ROM available to donors. But by making available to everyone a few days after they've released it to donors, isn't a big deal for me. But, I recognize that it is a big deal to some.
[Vibrant Android Development] MWBehr:
I think you have a great number of different issues:

1. People posting in the wrong section.

Obviously, people aren't posting in General when they should have posted in Development. They post in Development when they "should have" posted somewhere else. Why? Well I think this meeting answers that question. Why is this meeting being held in the Development section instead of in General where it probably "belongs"? The answer is simply because Development is where the action is. People post here because they want their question to be seen or their voice to be heard or because they may not even realize there is another section.

2. People asking a question that's been asked/answered before.Personally, I say big deal and get over it. Search is great, but only if you know what to type in your search to narrow it down. If you don't like the question, don't answer. People will always ask repetitive or "dumb questions. That's life (on or off forums).

3. Devs having "Donator Only" (pre)releases.

This seems to be mostly a thing of the past now for the Devs that remain, but I think the Mods need to make a clear stance on how they feel about this.

4. People forming cults around their favorite Dev.

Not sure what can really be done about this, but it does seem to result in something similar to gang wars.

5. Devs leaving.

I think this is the main concern of most people. From what I can tell, though, they aren't simply leaving because they're angry at the community (although this is also an issue). They also seem to be motivated by the fact that they have no ability to consolidate their release into one place like they can on their own forum. If you hop over to TW or Eugene's sites, they have a TON of different threads that are all active. Here, they had their 2000 page thread as was mention earlier.

I think that these Devs deserve their own individual sections to host their releases. More to the point, I think having a General, Development, Themes and Apps (Why do we need a phone specific apps section?) Q&A as seperate section is kinda rediculous. I know people are worried about "clutter" in their precious development section, but all it does is confuse people.

Like:

If I have a question about Development does that go in Q&A or development?

Should "Think Tanks" go in Development or General?

Announcements get flamed for being in Development unless they're interesting (kinda hypocrytical no?)

At what point does a modification to the looks of a rom graduate from Themes to Developement?

I'd much rather see a "General" section with Q&A, Roms, Kernels, Themes, and probably one or two other subsections. Also, I really truely believe that these devs should have an even further subsection for themeselves under each of these sections.

That's just my two cents.
[Vibrant Android Development] LadyDemise:
I care to elaborate...

Even using the term n00bs is a reason people feel unwelcome. I have been reading here for years and I can't believe the way people are treated. I never bother to ask anything because if I post a topic even if I feel it's in the right section it may not be and you get flamed. I don't ask in threads because it seems a majority of the time you'll get some snotty answer or if you have less than 1000 posts here you'll simply be ignored.

This may not matter to those who think they already know all there is to know but for someone who gets a new device and wants to learn more about it, it would be easier to use the search function if when I searched I could find more than a bunch of threads that are locked before they are even answered or a bunch of jerks giving crappy feedback.

Oh and on another note since I am on a rant already... These so called development threads? It seems like as of late there are many complaints on people saying "I donated" or "thanks" But I guess if I have to scroll through some comments to get to the ones that actually talk about the rom or what have you I would rather scroll through things singing praise than a bunch of hate mongering which seems to go ignored here if certain members do it.

Sorry if I make next to no sense I'm tired but that's then end of what I have now.

Thanks
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
That's the intention of the rules, and while XDA doesn't control what happens off-site, if threads are revolving around paying for ROMs, or any of this

"donation sent", "check your PMs" etc,

starts happening, then it's getting out of hand. The XDA rules, as Wacky.Banana stated above, make it pretty clear how this kind of thing should happen.

XDA is not a place for people to make money. It is a place for hobbyists, but some choose to voluntarily make a small contribution towards a developer for their time and effort, and that is always appreciated by developers. It's not somewhere to start selling access to ROMs or features, and the report post button should be used in such cases.
[Vibrant Android Development] tweezit:
One issue I have with the *kanging* is that anymore with so many mods released it is hard at times to find out who originally released some mods.

I mean I can find numerous roms out right now that all share certain mods and each one will claim it is their work so if a new user like me was to make a mod based of that it is very frustrating to find out who was the real person who did it and therefore give proper credit where it is due without getting bashed by 500 people.

I think what I am trying to get at is if a new user downloads rom #1 that was pre-modded and decides to make their own based of that rom well that rom may have already had 20+ things already used from another persons rom.

Now days it can take hours to track it all down and almost not worth the time to post roms here.

(sorry incase bad spelling or punctuation as I was in a hurry typing this)

Anyways I hope I made this understandable. :)

I think the donations was a good ideal just some devs took it overboard. (not all devs though)
[Vibrant Android Development] chichu_9:
egzthunder1: Sent you a couple of links thru PM
[Vibrant Android Development] krook6023:
Please report such posts...I can assure you that we look at every reported post...often times we have multiple mods collaborate to make the right decision....so report the posts...and watch the thread get cleaned. If everybody embraced this idea as a community it would do wonders for this forum.

Often times when we have member cluttering the thread with useless or flaming posts, other members (instead of reporting the post) respond or confront the members which leads to others doing so and the whole thing snowballs.

EZ summed it up perfect here.