yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant Android Development] Frostbyrne:
It seems as though everyone keeps bringing up the same issue, that the newbies who dont have any dev experience arent reading OPs posts and getting flamed for asking questions. Essentially in my opinion, it would require a rom only board to be added and be a closed board that everyone can see, but only mods can post. If you need to add a rom you submit your rom to a mod and a moderator will acknowledge that it is a real working rom and put it on the board. The next step IMO would be to completely wipe the database for the vibrant forums. The reason for this drastic step is that somewhere along the way the board went bad. There are other boards that have no issues, and this has been expressed in this very thread. This would enable new users to ask their questions and not be flamed for "Use the search bar n00b" because the issue would not have been addressed formerly. I believe that this part of the site just went bad, maybe some new members saw other members flaming and took it as the norm, which in turn caused the situation we have now. a full reset of the Vibrant section of the forum would allow the vibrant community to rebuild, and hopefully if this idea is used the boards will be better enforced with many of the other suggestions Ive seen here today to create an all around better experience for solving techincal issues on the vibrant as well as with devs. Ive just been browsing for a long time now and finally registered awhile ago for a custom rom download. I took the time and read through EVERY POST xD and I just wanted to start contributing to this community that has actually welcomed me, unlike what many of you say in these threads, the community here is great and just needs a reboot.
[Vibrant Android Development] Master™:
I am pretty sure EVERY ROM here works, but it honestly it is the people not reading the OP or not knowing how to flash.

So many people post this same question "I renamed it to 'update.zip' but it isn't working!?! Please Fix"

That isn't anyones problem but there OWN, they didn't read the OP to know it was CWM (Most ROMs are)
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
Well, my fellow xda-ers. It seems that we are getting rather close to the time limit. It is currently 2:20 pm EST (GMT -5) and our time limit is 4 pm.

We have discussed so far:

* Novice/Senior behavior.

* The proper use of Rule 12 (ie, kanging)

* Donations

* Posting in the right places

* Information availability

I am writing down a small summary of the things being discussed and some action items that I will post at the end of the meeting.

Any other topic that needs to be discussed?
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
I've noticed this as well........ it really cracks me up they download change something....... and then complain it doesn't work. "i know it said use Unleaded but I thought Diesel would be ok" ?!?!! it is this mentality that just amazes me......
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
I can see the positive about doing a clean sweep. But I also see the problem. There is a huge amount of data in here that would be lost if we did a clean sweep. Just the different ways people get into Download mode for example. If this is a solution that becomes choosen, I for one would like to get most of the information we can into the Wiki first so that we don't have to start from Scratch again. And the Vibrant Bible would become obsolete as it is full of links to places in the Forum.
[Vibrant Android Development] 12paq:
A lot of this seems to comes down to site organisation vs. the explosion in Android users, in parallel with social skills or the lack there of.

XDA has become massive for two basic reasons; its good at what it does and the Android scene has exploded in numbers.

This Town Hall meeting is a testament to the leaders of XDA acknowledging issues and caring enough to get our input. That's just plain good and I thank them for that.

Site organisation needs to continue to improve so the site participants with different levels of skills or experience can learn and grow or disseminate information without being bogged down by "when is Froyo coming to the Vibrant" or "I bricked my fone man". This has been pointed out in many prior posts, yet it is not easy to fix. Posting rules and info often goes unread. Many Devs post on the first page all the information needed and its just not read. XDA has done a decent job of molding site organisation over the years and needs to continue, yet so many don't see it or observe it or choose not to follow it. So we get problems.

I guess the organisational structure of the site has to continue improve as well as getting the messages out to every one to follow. How to correctly do this is the problem, and I would refer to many of the prior posts and persons with much more experience in these issues. This is a challenge for sure.

Lastly the issue of members personal behavior. A site or a section of a site, can take on any tone. This tone is generated by the participants of the site. Given any large group in our society, we will have a few bad apples, no matter where it is. It's how we respond to them and how quickly we react to them, is my belief how we can help mold the tone and tenor of the group, section or forum society. Certainly the Vibrant section has taken a turn to the negative at times. A few bad apples, and the the reaction to them, has fed these issue. This is common. It still sucks, but it can commonly happen. Why this does, has multiple factors as always. But one big common denominator in all groups of society is leadership. Leadership that swoops in and stops the bad behavior right away. Leadership that itself behaves appropriately and leadership that does not have personal favorite or slants towards individuals. Not making accusations, just speaking in general terms of groups and society.

Well thats sounds all easy, but its not. We just can't add more bandwidth and its solved. It takes people volunteers and staff that are available and willing to take the time to be the leaders. When a device such as the Galaxy S. explodes onto the scene we see problems just by sheer numbers. Its economies of scales.

We seem to have the rules and a great foundation at XDA. In the sections that have exploded in numbers, more of an implementation problem then anything. The will is there. The rules are there. Maybe they just need more trained mods? Easier said then done I realize.

My 2 cents....
[Vibrant Android Development] MWBehr:
I get what you're saying, and I know major changes are difficult, but here's the thing.... If someone is posting in this thread or reading this thread right now, they're at least interested in solving the problem most likely. Most of the causes of the problem couldn't care less that this thread even exists. So how do you handle them?

We're not going to get a complete 180 in community attitude because we talked it out, but changed nothing. If an adjustment to forum structure, ban policy, or something similar doesn't come of this, then I feel it will all be for naught.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
some people just need a good old fashioned BAN!

maybe it should be made public when someone gets banned(instill FEAR into XDA users)

example:

******Joe Bloe BANNED for posting in wrong section 2 times******

******POSTING IN THE WRONG SECTION WILL NOT BE TOLERATED******

******MasterTM BANNED because we didn't like him******

​
[Vibrant Android Development] :
My major issues are the flaming in regards to when people ask questions. I understand that some people dont know if what they are posting should go in development or not (myself included for some things), but to simply go into the thread and start hammering them for it is not ok. I know not everyone does this, but there are those that do. Also in regards to people asking questions that have already been asked, theres no need to get nasty, it seems that some just jump straight to calling someone stupid or "NEWB", etc. when instead one could simple direct them to the thread that answers it and have the copy thread closed/deleted. It also needs to be taken into account the fact that not everyone who visits this forum is an adult, and also may not have experience in using forums, so the language and the insults really hurt that persons experience and turn them away from asking questions and becoming a more productive and knowledgeable forum member. In the end we all just need to act like proper, responsible people and not simply resort to childish name calling, etc. because it really does no good and doesnt help to forward development, it just fills threads with useless crap
[Vibrant Android Development] Frostbyrne:
Certain threads that are important to the bible can always be excluded/just copied over to the new board.
[Vibrant Android Development] Relikk356:
You can set all the rules you like but how are you going to enforce them with a limited amount of admins vs members. It seems as though the Vibrant section has been growing exponentially. Look at the number of post there are a day. It's insane. How would an admin go through all of those post a day? It's like a DOS attack, and the request are the new members. Eventually the system can't take it anymore. Waiting on a member to let you know there is a problem doesn't really work when the number of members get larger like this. Need to be less reactive and more proactive.

I've only been a member since August, but the one thing I saw might be improved on is the way that comments, questions, and feedback for dev's is handled. Why not make a standard way to respond back in each section. Much like a loose form. That way dev's,users, admins don't have to weed through all the "mumbo jumbo" and will know what too look for. Comments that are not in the proper format could be reviewed by admins and removed easily(in theory at least).

example;

Rom: Nero 3.0

Issue: MMS doesn't work (example)

My previous Rom: Stock

VS

"I can't send text messages, I hate my vibrant"

My two cents.
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Ah the "dead chicken of shame" hung around the neck......The problem i see with this is the flamebaiters will go out of their way to bait people just as a "game" Like Newton said law#2 for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

But that said, I Like scrizz'z idea
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Very well stated !!! +1
[Vibrant Android Development] egzthunder1:
That doesn't work (believe me, its been tried before). Public humiliation just makes us look like a bunch of cavemen.

Exercising the ban hammer is normally done as a last resource for things that are far more grave than that. On top of that, you will need to ban every new member and their grandmother for posting questions out of place. This is not the solution.

One thing that has been working so far is that members get a pm from us moderators whenever we move a thread to a different section. Most new members will reply saying that it won't happen again, and to be honest, we don't usually hear from that person again (complain wise, that is).
[Vibrant Android Development] Master™:
Why is my name in this?:confused:

lol
[Vibrant Android Development] Androidawg:
+1 12pac Thanks for stating what should be obvious.
[Vibrant Android Development] 12paq:
Thx. I was worried about stating it because it is so obvious. Maybe it just needed to be in one package? Its also light on solutions...but I'm hoping to generate some.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
It was just an example.

:D

if posting in the wrong section would get you banned, people would be too scared to post.

:D

I think this issue is something that needs more attention/thought than just this town-hall meeting.

I believe a new User section should be added to all the Device fora.

This would keep the other sections free of the filth, and, at the same time, provide new users a kn3wb haven with the resources necessary(ie Vibrant Bible, Guide to ODIN, how to flash a ROM, etc) for new users to gain knowledge required to enter the more advanced parts of xDa.
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
your name is Joe Bloe ?:D:D:D
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
Thanks MODS

I just wanted to thank the MODs and Admins to make this thread possible. It was a good brainstorming. :)
[Vibrant Android Development] krook6023:
I see where you are coming from…while I will concede there have been some good ideas thrown around today. If the people that care would ask themselves how am *I* helping to make this a better place…then I do see a total 180 happening...and quickly. Negativity is not the only thing that is contagious.
[Vibrant Android Development] sader2202:
Just banning someone should be enough. I was banned for flaming and that was enough for me to learn my lesson. The idea of public humiliation when it comes to banning is wrong and perfect example of tyranny. I'm not fo it one bit.
[Vibrant Android Development] 12paq:
I like that.
[Vibrant Android Development] amwilliams9:
Hello all I'm a member but as you can tell a very rare poster on this forum. I did start reading the beginning of this thread but due to the length I decided to just post my experience while a member. First off I'm more of a desktop guy who has really become interested since owning the Vibrant. I have visited many different forums just trying to learn more about my phone. I after reading soooo many references to this forum joined. Right off the bat this is a massive forum, huge!! It is not as easy to use the search option as one might think. Even trying to use specific key words may not get what one is looking for. Information may not be actually current even with results. Try ROM Vibrant download. You will get a insane amount of information pages and pages of it. Being new to this technology (flashing) its daunting. I can see why a noob would just ask the question. Veterans can become weary of what to them is a repeat question over and over again but to the person who asked it well it's not so repetitive. Yet I have seen legitimate questions that go unanswered. And when that same person post the same question in different forums they are blasted. None of this can be easy to fix... There will always be sides to be taken. But really a welcome and redirect to where a answer can be found will go along way especially to a new member. Also A new member may not know that there is some beef between some folks here and a simple question inadvertently seems to start turf wars that distract from the thread and IMO derails any real progress.
[Vibrant Android Development] ElGuapo361:
I really would like to see a Wiki stickied to the top of each Vibrant subforum. As much effort the guys keeping the Vibrant bible and the FAQ's alive, they eventually become a wall of text. That much info really needs to be in a Wiki with a TOC, which would make it much easier to find answers to relevant questions. It would also make it very easy to link people in answer to those questions when they come up.
[Vibrant Android Development] boborone:
I have wondered for some time now what happened to the wait period a new member had before they could post. When I first joined I had to wait like 90 days or something like that to post. Not just a thread but a reply too. For three months all I could do was read and read I did. I. Think that should be brought back. It would solve alot of the over posts, search for it's, and general lack of forum respect. Problems arise every time a new phone comes out and new members join. This I think would solve alot of problems.

From a phone
[Vibrant Android Development] phattchumpy:
Mos Def, the main challenge other than transcribing all the info is transferring the system of record from the bible thread to the wiki. We'd have to have the bible thread closed but still readable while the info was being transcribed and then eventually removed once the wiki was populated. Otherwise we'd have two knowledge repositories competing with each other and most likely neither would be complete and up to date.

I would definitely pitch in for an effort to bring the wiki up to snuff by transcribing the bible and linked info over but it would have to be a collaboration where eventually everyone buys in.
[Vibrant Android Development] Lunatixz:
I would have to strongly disagree with this statement... not going into detail on who or what... I don't believe skinning should be classified as developing... under your rules I could post a custom flash with only a wallpaper change and poof I'm a developer...

IMO Custom Roms with only skin or default app changes shouldn't be classified as development... were as forums for example adding front facing camera is a good example of development... or voodoo scripts, kernels, etc.

I think this forum desperately needs its own forum just for ROM posts.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
Just a time-check folks. We'll be closing in 30 minutes approximately.

If there's anything else people want to discuss, whatever it may be, they are more than welcome to bring it up in here... Issues, gripes, complaints, whinges etc... That's what this is here for.
[Vibrant Android Development] swehes:
Just want to add my +1 to this
[Vibrant Android Development] tjhart85:
Yes, but at the very least the people who just skin are offering something.

A lot of the posts in the Development section are something like:

"I know this isn't the right section, but no one looks in general, so I'm going to ask it here anyways. When I use $Latest_Rom_Here, my SD card won't mount, how do I fix it."

This should NOT be in the dev section, it's not offering anything & has been answered in dozens of places. I know this is just my example, but I've seen similar posts.
[Vibrant Android Development] tjhart85:
I've seen threads on other sites (not technical sites unfortunately) that have wikiposts as the first thread after the OPs.

This allows users to update the wikipost themselves & put all updated information in. Since a lot of times, the OP never gets updated by, it would be great to not have to search through 200 pages to find an answer.
[Vibrant Android Development] jamaroufi:
+1 I really think this would make a huge difference.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
I was and am looking into the type of addon that would be needed for that.

Unfortunately it appears to have "disappeared" :(
[Vibrant Android Development] tjhart85:
Well, I for one am just glad to know its something that you guys want as well.

Most likely I won't have any better luck than you, but I'll be on the lookout for that as well & will PM if I find anything.
[Vibrant Android Development] phattchumpy:
vaultwiki claims to tightly integrate with vBulletin and allow comments on articles if that helps.

http://www.vaultwiki.org/features/
[Vibrant Android Development] dimaf999:
I am not sure if this is funny or sad...

but I guess this post summarizes everything thats wrong with the forum right now:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?p=9811527#post9811527
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
I moved it to general.

By my time, we have 4 minutes left of the town hall now.
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Coming to the end here. I want to thank EGZThunger and all the other moderators for their perspective. This has been helpful to me.

Additionally, I want to thank all the Devs that participated Thank to all us XDA-ers who in this forum that try to improve our experience.

I took time off from work for this and I am glad i did. Hopefully the aftermath will have a sonic effect in improving the forum.

Thank you All............great idea and great town hall:D:D:D:D:D

oka1
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
Yeah, I've looked at it, but it appears to be for articles, rather than integrating with the thread itself.

Nuwiki was the plugin I knew of, but it appears to have vanished...
[Vibrant Android Development] t1h5ta3:
thank you!

( in before lock) :D
[Vibrant Android Development] s15274n:
I would prefer to not update a wiki, but if what I aleady have typed up in the stickies would benefit someone, I would be happy to email them the text so the formatting/URLs work in the wiki... less effort for whomever is kind enough to update.

Thank you mods... hopefully something good comes from all of this.
[Vibrant Android Development] oka1:
Last !!! haha
[Vibrant Android Development] jessyjack:
Hi, I'm late to the party and haven't gone through ALL the posts yet but I would like to comment on what ScratchSF posted:

1:

I'm pretty new to the vibrant scene aka n00b.

I love the work everyone has put into the vibrant scene (Roms, themes, leaks, etc).

2:

I don't think restricting or encouraging the group to be "just developers" is the best solution. I found the general part of the forum to be full of other n00bs and i could not find constructive answers to any of my questions until I came to the developers group. The knowledge in is the developers group so I can't fault people from trying to get answers here. However, the n00bs like myself should not get upset b/c a senior poster tells them to actually do work and search for the info. I understand the frustration that people have when someone posts questions that have been answered 100's of times already...personally I've never had to ask because I found the search button and its all there (I love the bible BTW). The developers group in more hard core and knowledgeable than the general group and n00bs have to understand that therefore multiple complaints from n00bs getting told to do their homework is not worth much in my opinion. The people in the group often point out that the post is not for this group but go on to help anyways (usually they just have to provide a link to the right post). If more people did their research there would be fewer n00b type posts and people would not be so hostile towards those that "may" have done there research and still had to ask for clarification.

3:

I do like the idea of a ROM/Releases section and the idea of the reviews. Its would take the strain off the dev group though it probably would have the exact problems that are trying to be ironed out here.

That is my 2 cents. Don't know if it helps.
[Vibrant Android Development] wacky.banana:
:eek: I admire your dedication to XDA

WB
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
And on that note, so did many of us.

That's 5PM in EST, so it's time to close this one folks. Thanks for participating, everyone, and egzthunder1 will post a summary when he's back and gets time.

Town Hall closed.
[Vibrant Android Development] :
From what I've seen I think one of the issues here is that newcomers often post things in the wrong forum, like asking a general question but posting it in the dev forum. This gets incredibly annoying and clutters up a forum that is for a different topic. Often times they post questions that have been answered dozens of times already and clearly have not even attempted to do a search and this just seems to add salt to the wound for a lot of users.

Lately I've noticed much more hostility to these types of situations, and while it is frustrating to users who are here on a daily basis, I don't think flaming and insults are the solution to this problem. I think a lot of us need chill out and try to enforce proper forum etiquette without resorting to flaming.
[Vibrant Android Development] emonero:
maybe you can implement a warning system, that way repeat offenders can be kept in check...
[Vibrant Android Development] ScratchSF:
I think that it's hard for newcomers to find the answers they need. I mean, a thread starts as Release1 and has 100 comments, then the OP changes it to Release 2 and there are now 200 more comments, then the OP changes it to Release 3 and there are 200 more comments. Even if you go back and read the thread, you still might not know if the comment is even still applicable.

So, we might need to consider having each new release have it's own release notice. In that case, then having people use the "search" feature makes more sense. But the way it is now, it is very hard for someone new to find the information they need.
[Vibrant Android Development] pulser_g2:
Such a system exists and is used at present.