yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.

Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!

exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.

"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.

Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.

Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.

But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
SMH at N8ter, yet again with the personal attacks. How about staying on topic.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
You spoiled most of threads with hate to the people who have different views than yours, and with your forceful promotion of WP7.

Just let other's speak. Why do you flame here all the time?

We can discuss here what we don't like, can't you just accept it?

If it's too hard, just start yor won thread.
[Windows Phone 7 General] fb401:
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.

So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.

I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
That's a good point.
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
I have owned a Captivate and a Focus, one is Hummingbird the other is Snapdragon. I get atleast 20% more battery life with the Focus than I did on the Captivate. I don't remember if the Captivate had a smaller battery though, the Focus is 1500mah

The UI on Android seems like Windows XP in a Windows 7/OSX world to me. It's not bad, but it is definitely not as "slick" or "fluid" as WP7 or iOS.

Exchange support on Android is getting better, but it is still pretty basic. Even with 3rd party apps, it is less than perfect. The 3rd party apps do not integrate contacts with the phone address book very well.

If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then the X10a (with generic ROM and all bloat removed) vs the WP7 devices is the best comparison to make. I have an X10a (a=North America version) and the Focus. The Focus is definitely snappier. This is on essentially equal hardware, so it appears the WP7 is more optimized than Android 2.1. I have not used 2.2 on the X10a (mostly because there is no NAND loadable version yet) so it may be more on par with 2.2.

To say there is no choice on anything is not 100% true. You do get to choose which live tiles to use (essentially like widgets) but you are stuck with the as-designed home screen. This is in my opinion a good decision by Microsoft. As much fun as it is to tinker with different home replacements on Android, it is not something that is good for most users. The UI should be consistent across devices so that the overall experience is consistent.

Agreed!

I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Maybe in some fantasy world where the only people who use smartphones are XDA forum posters.

HD2s get better battery life than Vibrants out of the box (I had both and used both for months before I sold the HD2 - actually used the HD2 more since all my media and documents were stored on it) and it has a smaller battery. There are Efficient ROMs for WinMo devices, IIRC, which give better battery life (I use only stock ROMs).

An Android handset cannot even compete with a Nokia for battery life. WP7 gives better battery life than Android.

I've already said this more than twice in two different threads. I've tried saying it in different ways. I can say it in French if they want, my French is respectable...

I still don't think they'll get it, though...

These types of comparisons are made all the time.

Exchange support on Android is not *fine*. If you think it is, then you have not used an WinMo, iPhone, or Symbian phone against an Exchange server, especially on a device used for business. Exchange ActiveSync has existed for almost a decade... To have such poor support (compared to competing products) after being on the market 2 years... Well, it's terrible. TouchDown and other clients are buggy or have unacceptable workarounds for some of the shortcomings in the Android OS. They are not usable in all use cases - not to mention they're expensive as hell.

Better off just getting an N8 and buying SPB Mobile Shell. You'll get more bang for your buck, that way, IMO (due to better Business features, battery life, and support for more DRM and Media Types + offline navigation capabilities on top of a pentaband radio).

Captivate has a 1500mAh battery. Battery life on Android is worse than on other platforms. That is why Google is still trying to make improvements IRT battery life.

The user interface on Android is terrible compared to WP7 and iOS, especially when it comes to applications. Go to http://www.TweetDeck.com and compare the Android and iOS user interfaces. As far as the OS user interface... It's worse than 3rd party replacements like SPB Mobile Shell, and the reason why there's a market for this is because the Android UI is terrible. If it was "fine," then Manufacturers wouldn't spend the kind of cash and resourecs they do defacing it as if it was another version of Symbian OS or Windows Mobile.

The Sony Ericson devices probably the the most attractive Android skins on them. I was in Best Buy on Black Friday playing around with one. I didn't even know what the hell it was until I dug around in the menus, either. It was very attractive, performant, and intuitive. Unfortunately, only a minority of Android devices have this sort of user experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] naplesbill:
N8ter, I hope none of that was directed at me. I am in almost complete agreement with your statements.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Nope. It was just a reiteration of my posts and a response to the rest of the post of the person I copy-paste-quoted at the top of my post.

I got lazy and didn't multi-quote/split it up, so it looks like it's all in response to the snipped I quotted from you :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] yipcanjo:
Wow. I could not agree more.

I just came from the T-Mobile Vibrant, and I've had a number of other phones before that: iPhone 3GS, two other Android phones, T-Mobile Dash, and some lame-duck handsets. Having had three different Android phones in the past, I think I'm safe in saying that I really gave Android the "old college try", but it left me frustrated every single time. Always "good", but never EVER great. The Vibrant seemed like it should've been a great phone, but time and time again I just wanted to throw that piece of junk against a wall -- UI inconsistencies, performance issues, slow booting, media scanning, dropped calls, GPS broken (known issue) and so forth. The list goes on.

Anyhow, I now own an LG Optimus 7 that I purchased off of Ebay. While my Windows Phone 7 experience has been far from perfect, I (personally) feel that this OS is much further along in the *important aspects* than even the most current Android. The performance is amazing and consistent -- something I've never seen on an Android phone. The user interface is also consistent, which Android (for all it's openness) is moving further and further away from. In fact, the WP7 interface is far more consistent than the iPhone, which has some wacky UI decisions from time to time. I've also noticed better battery life than my old iPhone or Vibrant -- with the Vibrant (at times) tanking very quickly and for no apparent reason.

All that said, comparing the 1.0 release of WP7 to the current iterations of Android and iOS is *mostly* fair, in my opinion. Obviously WP7 had to be competitive on most every level to even be considered "competitive" in today's market. Is it lacking some features? Yes -- and most folks with mention Copy & Paste, Multi-tasking, etc.. In my opinion, foregoing those features upon initial release was totally acceptable. They're "nice features", but not must haves. Having used the iPhone and (current) Android phones, I can tell you that the Cut & Paste especially was a rarely-used feature.

For what it lacks, let's be sure to point out where WP7 matches and/or exceeds the other major OSes: performance, consistency, true (and GOOD) Exchange support, and a virtual keyboard that totally rocks.

Personally, I'm feeling that WP7 has already bested Android on the *most important* features, and is likely neck-and-neck with iOS on those same criteria. Microsoft has a lot of stuff to fix, but this out-of-the-gates release of Windows Phone has more than impressed me. I have no problems recommending Windows Phone 7 devices to friends, family, and co-workers. The same was not true of Android (specifically the Vibrant).

Anyhow.... I'll end my rant now. Thanks for listening :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] orangekid:
well considering I use an HD2 I have full exchange support in WinMo and I reap the benefits of all WinMo has to offer, while at the same time enjoying Android.

I can see your points and you actually make them pretty validly, battery life on Android has always been an issue. But modified the right way, a Vibrant can get better battery life because hardware-wise a hummingbird is more efficient than a snapdragon.

On average I'll grant WP7 smokes Android in battery life.

I guess the main things I like about Android over WP7 is being able to change my UI, more of the apps that I like (although no doubt they will be on WP7 in a year or less) and the ability to modify the kernel, they keyboards, multitask 3rd party apps, Widget support (IMO better than those damn tiles), etc...

I do think for MS WP7 is a good product. Sure I kid about it sucking, but in all honesty it's a solid OS, just too closed right now IMO
[Windows Phone 7 General] yipcanjo:
Here's my thought on that: openness and the ability to customize is wonderful *IF* the starting point is rock solid to begin with. I've loaded many (many) WinMo and Android ROMs in my day. The problem is when I feel I have to customize just to make things work properly. In the case of the Vibrant, I literally *HAD* to customize to get the Exchange client functioning in a usable way. I *HAD* to customize to remove some of the nasty TouchWiz crap. I *HAD* to customize to fix things like the Gallery that sorted photos in reverse Date order. Etc., etc..

Customizing is nice, and I would love to see WP7 get to a place where something like the Start page tiles are more configurable. I think it'll get there. Otherwise, when the customizing the OS is what finally makes it usable in some basic ways, well... then it starts to look like a failure to me.

My $.02
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
The goal of any smartphone OS vendor should be to deliver a product that the user can pick up and agree is usable from day one.

When your users have to start fiddling around with alternate home replacements, loading custom roms, etc. you have failed on several levels when it comes to user experience.

If people were all into that, Linux would be a colossal win on the desktop.

It's 1% marketshare pretty much displays how many people are into endlessly tweaking their devices untli they run correctly - especially considering more people have PCs than smartphones (maybe more than cell phones, period, considering they can have multiple PCs - like me, 1 smartphone 5 PCs).

~70% of users in the phone market still use feature phones.

They don't care about tweaking their device. They care about it working right from day one and staying that way.

That's why iOS is as popular as it is, and it's why Google needs to do something about their fragmented smartphone OS. Android marketshare will always be somewhat artificially high due to their Symbian/Feature Phone OS way of shelling the OS out and letting the manufacturers/carriers do anything they want with it, but that doesn't make it better than the alternatives. It just means they succeeded it saturating the market with hundreds (if not thousands) of Android phones - at least half of which being in the below-mid-range category and sold for next to nothing with contracts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] yipcanjo:
Nailed it.

Nailed *that* too :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Must agree on that. They also did a great job on WM6.5.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
They did a great job with the skin, but releasing a new Android handset with 1.6 on it was a mega-failure on their part.

Maybe they put a little too much effort in the skin :<

I don't think the X10 will ever get an update to Android 2.2, which makes that phone next to worthless for anyone on a contract.

It was worthless when it was released with 1.6 as fas as I'm concerned, because there's no way you can expect a manufacturer to upgrade up 2-3 versions of Android at this point with the kind of release cycle Android has.

The earlier phones got better support because manufacturers weren't shooting out Android handsets as fast as they are today, and Android wasn't moving as fast as it is now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mmegalodon:
Battery longevity and performance? Those two issues are bull**** for one. Battery tech sucks and we all know it. People act like the iPhone has some magical battery. Act like it can't be run dry like any other phone when putting it through it's paces. And performance? Is there some magical phone out there i haven't heard of?

Yes , its one thing for a new OS to drop and have issues ... or missing features ... but some are glaring omissions on MSs part , and some can't and shouldn't be so easily excused. Just because something launched last year and lacked currently present features doesn't mean that's a legit excuse. Especially when a specifically said feature is so simple and amazingly absent.

Don't hate on Android guys ... its glorious. You have nothing to brag about yet so these comments are silky at best.

Acting like some sort of "Android Battery Myth" exists is silly and only proves your lack of knowledge.

SWYPED from my SUPASONIC
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Yes, it can run dry like any other battery. It just tends to take longer to run dry with moderate to heavy usage compared to most Android handsets. I think that's the point I, and others, were trying to make.

All OSes have glaring ommisions, but I think you're sensationalizing things a bit. The update in January will be like Monistat to you people, I bet.

Android is definitely not glorious.

It's not a myth. For someone talking about lack of knowledge, you certainly haven't displayed any in this entire post...
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
It's really quite sad that you feel the need to make excuses for Android's proven, documented shortcomings. There's plenty to brag about on WP7, and plenty of stuff needing addressed. At least nobody here is under any delusion that the OS is perfect. We know the problems, know Microsoft are working to resolve them and have a good idea when we'll see them corrected. Compare that to yourself and we have; in denial about the problems, has no idea if Google are actively tackling the problems or not (but can presume they are) and has no idea if any solutions will be in the next release (they've managed to leave battery and performance issues unsolved for what? 6 releases now?).

Personally I've had plenty of use of all the major OS's (bar the new release of Symbian) and the only one I wouldn't go back to is Android. I'll still get to use it in hand-on sessions with new handsets, but I doubt I'll be buying another one unless something major changes. It's the way that Google insists on running before it can walk; very cutting-edge advanced features seem more important to it than getting the basics right and addressing the complaints of it's users.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mmegalodon:
Oh I'm sorry I missed that one OS that somehow managed magical battery life. When was this "Android means bad battery life" fact established? Last I checked battery tech across the board was behind. Not just "Android" which makes no sense.

And when missing features are added ill be more understanding. But there are basic things that are surprisingly absent. Things many people obviously want. Will be interesting to see what is added / addressed with the update.

I don't hate WP7 and I didn't wish it immediate doom. But someone brings something up acknowledges a missing feature and some if you **** yourselves. Say things to make a point which nay not be true ... say **** to try and back a statement ... calm yourselves. Folks like you, Nate, need to calm yourselves. You get so defensive and provide **** replies that are borderline ridiculous for the most part. Have seen a lot of your posts ... more personal attacks than not.

SWYPED from my SUPASONIC
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Well, today X10 on 2.1 is absolutely fine.

Almost no phone on the market gets 2 years of continuous support, what is annoying BTW.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lumpaywk:
I only got as far as this post when catching up on my thread but felt thus said what i was trying to so much better than i did. I think sone other have muss read what i was saying, about comparing i was trying to say that yes wr can't compare the software and hardware but it is ok to compare the way it stacks up in the current market the way they did abd then gone on to boom.

I will always pick a phone for what it is a d not what it will be abd for me wp7 is perfect for others its android or IOS or even bb depends o your needs. I just think before people write it off they should take a look at what has been in the past as it is the best lesson for things to come.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Symbian smartphones have been getting ridiculously high battery life for years, along with others.

That's not called missing out. That's called not paying attention and having no idea what things are like in this market.

Apple DID take slack about iPhone battery life, btw. These issues are not exclusive to Android, but Android is just generally worse than the competition... A phone that turns off halfway through the day is useless irregardless of what OS it's running. It's as simple a that.

Is it simply a coincidence that one of the most asked questions in any ROM/Devleopment thread in the Android [Handset] forums is: "How's the battery life?"

No.

Continue living in your bubble. It's you choice and no one is going to get max if you choose to sit there.

I'm quite calm.

Check my posts, and then check the posts of those who replied to me. Unless you're blinded by bias, there's no way you can sit here and tell me to calm down without making yourself asphyxiate from laughter.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
And they would have sold significantly more phones if it would have shipped with 2.1 with a 2.2 update coming "in the future" though.

That's why it's a failure.

They took the bad route, not the Dell Streak route.

In any case, a lot of the people who think WP7 will fail are either underestimating the power of Microsoft's product/services portfolio, or are utterly clueless of the economics of the smartphone industry.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chaoscentral:
Apparently someone hasn't used a WP7 device and an overpowered Android device at all, let alone in the same room where you can see a difference in speed.

My girlfriend has a myTouch 4G, and I tested it against an HD7 in the same room. HD7 smoked it in terms of UI fluidity and responsiveness.

Android is NOT hardware accellerated, WP7 is. Doesn't matter how powerful the hardware is, there is a performance wall when you are doing everything in software.

Hardware accelleration of the UI is why WP7 performs circles around Android, not to mention the Dalvik VM which is horrible slow and inefficient as is. The only Android devices to get any kind of benefit from JIT to rid themselves of Dalvik are Snapdragon based devices because the Scorpion core SoCs have a 128-bit wide SIMD whereas all other SoCs based on the A8 core(Hummingbird and OMAP) gain next to nothing from JIT.

So sure while Android devices are coming out with ridiculously overpowered hardware, it's just to cover up the performance problem that Android has. Once Android finally goes hardware accellerated I'm sure things will be different, but until then WP7 and all of its' devices are made for each other, and this synergy of hardware and software make a better user experience for everyone.

The general public does not care or really know about things as custom roms or replacing the UI. the OOB experience is what matters most to the general public. Pop an Android phone and a WP7 device in front of joe shmoe and I can almost guarantee you he will go for the WP7 device for it's ease of use.

This is coming from a die hard Android advocate mind you. It's just that some of you need to stop being evangelists and embrace the competition. Competition exists for a reason, to further progress.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Exactly. Android high-end devices need to overspec, otherwise the device will bottleneck, as many low-spec android devices do.

WP7 and iOS simply don't need the latest and greatest, because of the way they offload the work. Also, the .NET framework used in WP7 is better than the Dalvik VM.

There is no need to raise the cost of WP7 devices to have some sort of hardware war with Droid X's and Galaxy S devices, when WP7 is already outperforming them with HD2-level hardware.

Android's problems aren't hardware. It's software, and manufacturers and carriers aren't helping the problem by bloating the system up with skins and bloatware that you have to hack your phone to remove.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
What exactly are you guys arguing? What does WP7 do that Android can't? Because all I hear is a bunch of rubbish, stuff that normal people could care less about.

Android sucks, worst OS of all time. IOS sucks too. OK now lets focus on WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
i wish some one made an OS according to your need... dream on.. maybe you should write something your self...