yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Defy General] TPGamer:
I'm not great with low level hardware stuff, but win7/moto usb drivers identify the device by some kind of ID, right? The guy on mocado said, that the picture in his second post is made, when he was about to flash a new ROM on the phone. And the boot ROM is in the SoC, along with the USB controller. So in that case basicly the SoC identifies it self as a 3630. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I said before, I'm not great with this kind of stuff.
[Defy General] xdaid:
Motorola replied and confirmed omap3610 + powerVR. Now, it's hard to believe they lie telling to their customers something worst than the real specs. Would it be a (totally) new market strategy to sell their other phones? This makes sense if Motorola was the only phone maker all over the world. But it is not.

Also consider that defy's has a wider target range than droid-x and other high-end phones, defy has great performances, it's smaller and light, then reach all those people who don't want big phones in their pocket.

Motorola should be really happy to sell a lot of defy instead of a few droid 2.2, don't you agree?

All i can say is they found a good compromise, probably Motorola chose the cheaper way for them, but were still able to realize a high-performance phone (as confirmed by benchmarks).
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
No being the TI OMAP expert either, I'd assume the OMAP3610 is a downbin of a OMAP3630, where essentially the SGX530 is busted for one or the other reason. In this case a OMAP3610 might be reported as a OMAP3630, but some internal registers might report that the SGX part is not present (say the CONTROL_IDCODE @ 0x4830A204)
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
Marketing is something really intresting. Besides the real possibility that S&M do not talk to engineering.

It seems that T-Mobile USA does not want to position that phone ABOVE the myTouch 4G, and the Samsung Vibrant. This is an easy way to downspec it and position the product where it should be sales wise.

On the other hand, maybe Motorola has something coming up that they'd like to position above the DEFY real soon. What's easier that having the shiny new thing being faster (by downspecing the old one), and make it more attractive (by shipping 2.2 on it rather than 2.1 as for the DEFY).

In any case this little toy is a GEM, and I don't really care too much what the marketing department inside Motorola does ;-)
[Defy General] Step666:
Maybe if T-Mobile US were the only network in the world selling the Defy and it wasn't available SIM-free, that might mean something.

But since they're not, it's completely inconsequential.

As interesting as marketing is, none of the speculative reasons for Motorola apparently lying about the CPU the Defy has hold any water.

Even if the Defy has the 3630, that doesn't suddenly magically make it the equal of the likes of the Droid 2 or the Droid X, it's still a lower-specced handset overall. As for up-coming Motorola handsets, if the rumours about the 'Olympus' are remotely correct, it hardly needs the Defy to be put down to appear to be superior to it.

If the information Motorola have provided is incorrect, it'll be due to miscommunication or some other genuine error on their part, otherwise they're telling the truth IMO.

I'm not 100% certain myself, which is why it's merely a theory.
[Defy General] :
100 Percent 3630

It must be 100 percent an omap3630 . Moto doesnt expected that the defy would become so a fuccin bestseller . Moto is liying on us so that we stupid users buy the more expensive and "stronger" droid 2 instead of the defy . In my opinion both omaps are the same , only difference is that defy is underclocked to 800 . And after Milestone Overclock is out for defy , this phone probably kills iphone 4 and samsung galaxy s . So folks go and buy the defy and let us expand and destroy all non-defy-phones :D
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
It would be intresting to understand how important T-Mobile USA is compared to the rest of the world. It seemed important enough to add a different color scheme to begin with.

Is there anywhere a place that publishes sales data ?
[Defy General] Step666:
T-Mobile US is one small part of 8th largest mobile telecommunications company in the world.

China Mobile, which only operates in China and is but one of the networks there has also 4 times the number of customer than T-Mobile does in total worldwide.

So, all-in-all, probably not that important ;)

Also, what's this exclusive colour?
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
It's not about the absolute size, but about how many units a given carrier can sell. I heard that the internal ASP for a phone is sub $20 in china. Hardly a market for a somewhat more expensive Android device.

Europe is also different. It seems non-smartphones and Symbian phones do have a larger market presence (due to Nokia and Sony Ericsson being local) than say Motorola.

The exclusive color is the "linen colored" back/side. In Europe this part is black (check out the local Motorola web-sites and you'll see what I mean).
[Defy General] Step666:
The bigger the market, the larger the scope for sales.

And I wouldn't say the Defy was that expensive, it's available for less than £300 SIM-free, less than half the price of a 32GB iPhone4 and a good couple of hundred pounds less than the likes of the DesireHD.

You've got that somewhat backwards.

Motorola's lack of sales in Europe have very little to do with the fact that Nokia and SE are European-based and much more to do with the fact that they are American. Motorola have neglected all markets outside the US for a number of years now and consequently (and absolutely rightly) have almost no market-share any more.

If you look at the Android handsets they have released over here, there was the Milestone which was a GSM-based Droid but came along a fair while later, the XT720 which was never marketed and Motorola never bothered to distribute properly and now there's the Defy. In the mean time, look at the handsets they've been releasing in the US like the Droid X.

Motorola have no-one to blame but themselves.

Is that the same as the black-and-white version because, if so, that's not true.

In the UK, Carphone Warehouse are selling a black-and-white Defy.
[Defy General] SteveChou:
At present，DEFY in South Korea is linen colored, moto China will release DEFY on Jan 17,2011 as far as I know, and It will be 2.2, color isn't confirmed, maybe both. DEFY will come to Hong Kong this month.
[Defy General] Inlined:
Btw, dmesg shows...

...
<2>[ 0.000000] Creating RO text and data mapping sucessful
<6>[ 0.000000] OMAP3630 ES1.1
<6>[ 0.000000] SRAM: Mapped pa 0x40200000 to va 0xfc800000 size: 0x100000
....
<6>[ 0.000000] boot_mode=usb
<6>[ 0.000000] get_omap3630_revision_id: Devtree omap3630-variant 0x03630800
<6>[ 0.000000] Clocking rate (Crystal/DPLL/ARM core): 26.0/400/800 MHz
[Defy General] SteveChou:
maybe 3630-800
[Defy General] Step666:
If it's the 3630, even better.

I doubt anyone's going to complain if it's the better model.

But I just don't see any sense behind Motorola deliberately lying about it and saying it has a poorer model of CPU than it really does.
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
I would be "that guy" (dkSpook) posting the 3630 stuff on Modaco :)

Device Management in Windows 7 while the Phone is rebooting to recovery:

Quadrant score:

Please let me know if there's any benchmark or system info app you'd like me to run :)
[Defy General] Xhit:
Hi, first post on this forum and Defy user,

It's pretty obvious that most or all of the Defy units sold today come with a 3630 chip inside. Now why would Motorola claim that they have 3610 and also why did it take so long for them to come up with an official statement? My theory is that they plan to make Defys with the 3610 inside (on some markets or on all markets) or that they have alreday shipped some units with the 3610 inside. This is the only reason that they would make such a statement. Since the 3630 and the 3610 is physically the same chip but where the 3610 has disabled the GPU part of the chip a theory is that TI did not have a stock of 3610 and had to sell 3630 to Motorola instead. These lower spec chips using the same silicon are only a biproduct of the full spec device to increase the yield of the units and make it possible to sell chips that have defects. They are often just a paper product until someone comes along and actually orders them so if Motorola was the first that placed orders on the 3610 they might just have begun sorting out the 3610 and labeling them as 3610s.

That's my five cents...
[Defy General] xdaid:
If Motorola really is lying then yours is the most reliable theory so far.

You wrote 3610 is like a 3630 but GPU, which is disabled. The 3630 also includes IVA2+.

So, why not, could it be a 3610 with GPU (GPU only) enabled then?
[Defy General] Xhit:
Well if it has an GPU it's not a 3610 it's rather a 3620 if you can trust the Wikipedia site on OMAPs. However it's reasonable to think that TI have changed the spec on the 3610 and have included the GPU in the 3610. After all it's clocked at 800 MHz while the spec says it's at 720 MHz, so they've already changed the spec in this regard.
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
I'm partial to the theory that Moto don't want the Defy to out-spec the Droid X so instead of writing "underclocked 3630" they just list it as being a 3610 for all the spec-googling guys out there. I'd love to see the Defy overclocked to 1ghz and running froyo, then put it up against a Droid X :D
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
I am not buying this theory. If they'd wanted to do that, they would have just disabled the SGX part in the kernel, so that OpenGL ES wouldn't see it. Otherwise there would be a SW nightmare, with one set of phones using the SGX part and another set not.

Maybe the original Marketing requirement was OMAP3610, but for one or the other reason, it ended up being a OMAP3630 and nobody bothered to tell the Sales and Marketing force.
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
Probably way closer to being the real reason, but my theory was a lot cooler. Should have thrown in some ninjas.
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
Ok, how about a better theory. It's quite clear that all over the world GSM is THE standard. Hence if the US Military wanted to have a ruggedized phone, it MUST be GSM based. So maybe the US Military wanted to use the DEFY, but then figured out that without SGX 3D acceleration, Google Maps and Google Earth, and the rest of the Navigiation is tooo slow ...

This would also explain the different coloring with this linen color insert for the official civil variant. Bet you that the military variant is all black (Black Ops edition), or sand color (Iraq edition), or red (undercover in Moscow edition).
[Defy General] Xhit:
I'm not an Android expert, but I'm pretty sure all bundled Motorola applications and the Android OS itself would work as well with or without the GPU part. Being a developer myself I would be more worried about testing and the system verification if there were more than one HW version of the unit. But I guess this is everyday stuff for a company that are making so many different handsets every year? And this fact that there are more than one HW version of the device out there might contribute to the delay we are seeing with the release of Android 2.2. Who knows? It's only speculation at this point.

EDIT: I must say I like your theory the best though. Why should'nt they also be able to play Angry Birds on the front line? They certainly need the Defy with GPU. :)
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
You know too much, we're coming to get you. No, I won't tell you who "we" are, but here's two shots of my ALL BLACK Defy hiding in the crowd:

(Left to right: Desire, Defy, Wildfire, X10 mini)
[Defy General] jellydonut:
Wow. I thought the Defy would be thicker than a Desire.

So much for rugged phones being bricks.

NOW MINE JUST HAS TO ARRIVE :(

Speaking of sand color.. A matte, flat dark earth Defy? AWESOME. I'd buy it.

Maybe a can of spray paint would be easier..
[Defy General] xdaid:
I found a secret document of the US army... here is the proof
[Defy General] danbutter:
Sadly it seems you need six fingers on your left hand to use it!

The defy's spec is ip67 IIRC.

There is a full mil spec that this phone does NOT meet.

There are some mil spec phones that can be had (not smartphones)...look at sprint and att in US.

I know they both have some (or have had in the past).
[Defy General] jellydonut:
Yeah, MIL-810F. The Defy is not a fully rugged device.

I have a Sonim XP3 that I can compare the Defy to.. Although not very useful since they're so different, but hey. :p
[Defy General] gambitvbi:
Sorry for my english, You can find the official Technical Reference Manual for the 36xx series. Reading this I understend that:

1.- The 3610 doesn't exists. The chips are : 3611, 3615, 3621, 3622, 3630

2.- All have 2D/3D graphics accelerator (SGX)

3.- 3611 and 3615 does't have IVA2.2 hardware accelerators (responsable of the 720 encode/decode)

4.- 3615 does't have IVA2.2 DSP

5.- 3615 and 3621 doesn't have Camera image processing (ISP) features

So the principal difference is IVA 2.2 and camera. I think if defy can decode 720p without problem may be the 3630
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
@gambitvbi mind quickly posting a link to the 36xx TRM ? I haven't been able to find one. None of the documentation I have ever seen has a 3611 ...
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
No matter what CPU it's sporting, I just overclocked mine to 1200mhz:

And Paul O' Brien over at modaco.com just pushed a custom rom to his. Truly a great day to own a Defy :D
[Defy General] gambitvbi:
Of course. I've found on Texas instrument web:

Here the general specs of the 3600 family

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wt...ateId=6123&navigationId=12837&contentId=52605

Here the technical documentation

http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/OMAP36xx_ES1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vN.zip

It's published on 16th November 2010
[Defy General] SteveChou:
Did Paul share the rom？
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
No, it was just a de-odexed stock rom and pretty much a proof-of-concept. It looks like he might just team up with @HandlerExploit, It looks like I just introduced them to eachother on Twitter, they're already starting to chat :)
[Defy General] SteveChou:
Great，custom rom may be coming soon!
[Defy General] SteveChou:
So what's the result? 3630-800?

The documentation is too big, my poor English cannot support me to go through it.
[Defy General] dornellasrj:
I really think it's 3630, they did not invent a new type of processor only for motorola and not disclose to the public.
[Defy General] dicklaw1234:
I think the CPU was indeed OMAP3630 in the previously sold units which can score 10xx on quadrant. But I afraid that moto use OMAP3610 instead in further stocks after the price is lowered.

here is a recent review in HongKong that a sample only scores 806:

ringhk.com/news2.php?id=3368
[Defy General] SteveChou:
that's impossible, replace CPU later?

maybe he didn't clear some apps before Runing the test.
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
OMAP3630 and OMAP3610 have the same CPU. The delta would be in the GPU. But looking at the TRM (link posted earlier), all OMAP36xx do have the same GPU at the same speed. The only delta between OMAP361x and OMAP363x would be the missing ISP interface. The ISP deals with the camera, and I cannot imagine that they'd drop the camera ...
[Defy General] BizzaBoy:
Quick comment. The score can depend upon the "Battery profile" you select. If it's anything else but "Performance" the CPU throttles back a lot to 600MHz ...
[Defy General] Sorensiim:
I've had scores all the way down to 600-something, so don't read too much into it. I get around 1100 w/o overclocking, at 1200mhz I get 1314 :)
[Defy General] SteveChou:
what about video play quality without ISP?
[Defy General] gambitvbi:
Look at the especifications, 3615 has ISP and clock can be 800-1000, but don't have IVA2.2,

I think that the principal difference could be IVA 2.2, so the principal problem would be the video playback and encoding. 3630 is the only one that have clock speeds between 600-1200.

My conclusion: 3630 (I hope) or 3615, when we have froyo or camera fix to capture 720 we will know the answer.

P.D. nook color have 3621 at 800mhz:)
[Defy General] SteveChou:
Have anyone apart the DEFY and see what exactly CPU inside?
[Defy General] derbestimmer:
first, i'm german, so please excuse my feeble english skills. second, allthough i'm not a defy owner (still stuck with my wave) i'm following the cpu/soc discussion on many boards (xda, modaco, modmymobile, adroid-hilfe & motodev). before i contribute something to this matter, i'd like to sum up the facts.

-the defy seems blazingly fast for a ti omap 3610 800mhz, especially in 3d applications

-the powervr sgx 530 graphics accelerator is officially confirmed by moto

-but moto still insists on the 3610

-since the 3610 has no ga, there seems to be a conflict

-this leads to the assumption, that it is at least a 3620 (btw what is a 3615????)

-the moto flash tool as well as some other apps state that there is a omap 3630 build in

-so it is common beliefe, that it is a 3630 and moto is lying (or not telling the truth ;) ) for marketing reasons (-> defy is a midrange device + there are other highend devices out there, e.g. droid2(global) and droid x)

in my opinion there is no conflict. i think, it is like moto says. the defy has a ti omap 3610 with an additional power vr sgx 530. this becomes plausible when you imagine, that the 530 wasn't integrated into the soc afterwards or connected via a seperate/external bus, but only activated since it was allready existent. long story short, it is very likely, that all socs of the 36xx family are the same. the only difference is the clockrate and (de)activation of special features and components according to the model number(e.g. isp, iva(+), ga). sure, chips for the highend range like 3630 and 3640 will will clock better due to a higher yield quality (-> higher clock rates at lower voltages). btw, it would be far more expensive to really produce 4 soc models than to just produce one and deactivate special components. this is common practice for most semi conductor companies.

so if this is true, my only concern would be the missing isp (image signal processor):

h*****/focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=52608&navigationId=12834&templateId=6123

-> this documents states, that the 3610 has neither a ga nor an isp

(should be right below the cortex a8 & and the iva2 in the picture, as shown here: h*****/focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12836&contentId=52606)

OR IS IT REALLY MISSING????

h*****/focus.ti.com/lit/ml/swpt024b/swpt024b.pdf -> here it says, the 3610 has an isp

as you can see? texas instruments itself released contradictive documents.

what do you think about this?

before i forgett, how good is the defy when it comes to hd video content (-> 720p+) and which app do you use for xvid/divix palyback?

this doesn't sound very good:

source: h*****/gsmarena.com/motorola_defy-review-546p6.php

what is your experience?

thank you very much.

ps: sorry for bending the rules on outside links, but without them my post would have been quite pointless
[Defy General] xdaid:
Like many of us i'm still confused about defy's hardware, is it 3610, 3620 or 3630 :confused: don't know..

Also don't forget about the TI technical documentation posted by gambitvi where you can't find any trace of omap 3610 or 3620, there are omap 3611, 3615 and 3621 instead (and, of course, 3630).

About video playback; my defy is currently playing a movie, which is divx, 2 hrs long, quite heavy (850 mb), resolution 512 x240. No problem at all using VPlayer.

I also tried 640 x 480 movies, again no problem, that's all ok.

Just use VPlayer or RockPlayer, they have a built-in divx decoder.
[Defy General] derbestimmer:
thank you. sounds not so bad after all. somebody tried a 720p+ movie yet?
[Defy General] imbeci1e:
Yep, something like 5-6fps @ 720p unfortunately (with CPU@1.2GHz)...seems like there's no hardware encoding, runs only in "Software Encoding" mode on Rock Player. MPEG4's also play in this mode only with average 22fps @ 720*304
[Defy General] derbestimmer:
no hardware acceleration... hm, sounds bad again :( seems, i'll have to stay with the wave. it plays hd content like a charm...
[Defy General] imbeci1e:
I'm not aware of the hardware requirements for HD playback, but AFAIK the Defy doesn't support HD by definition. Nothing new here :)
[Defy General] aikidoka90:
Do you think that this will be solved with froyo?...

Or the problem is the CPU that isn´t 3630?

I thought that with that results at benchmarks, and with a dedicated GPU, defy were be able to play HD content...
[Defy General] derbestimmer:
looking at the contradictive specs, definition doesn't apply in this case. but i think the video playback performance at least proves, that there really isn't a isp working in the soc (so no 3630). btw, the afore mentioned resolutions are far from hd! with 720p i meant 1280x720 not 720x... according to the definition, the defy should be able to en-/decode video content with a resolution up to 720x576 (wich is dvd res). but i think without hardware support, the defy isn't able to perform so well with not supported video codecs (via 3rd party apps like vplayer or rock player).
[Defy General] juhwie:
DEFY uses OMAP 3611

Guys,

I don't want to be spoilsport but according to TI's Technical Reference Manual on the OMAP 36xx Family which is an interesting 3723 pages document!!!!! you will find on page 199/200 the attached table. You may download the pdf on the TI site - just search for:

OMAP36xx_ES1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vO.zip

....I'm not allowed to post links...

Without the IVA2.2 -which contains a hardware video accelerator it seem to be a OMAP 3611 in our DEFYs :(

Nevertheless it's a quite good device! ;)
[Defy General] imbeci1e:
That's what I meant and tested too ;)
[Defy General] derbestimmer:
sorry, i misunderstood.

then it would be interesting, how the highend motos with a 3630 and isp/iva2+ (droid2, droidx) handle high res videos on 3rd party apps like the rockplayer. with this info we could be sure wether the defy has or has not an isp.
[Defy General] gambitvbi:
I understend that ISP is the module that makes possible take photos and videos, so I think that if defy can take photos it couldn't be an 3611. If the problem is encoding and decoding video, it could be a 3615 without IVA 2.2 hardware and DSP.
[Defy General] raiden-snake:
hi, i have a sim free Motorola Defy from amazon uk, after doing somes benchmark tests, it says that my cpu is armv7 processor rev 2 (v7l). When i try to overclock it says that my default speed is 550 at 56? So what gives?
[Defy General] Higgsy:
because the frequency table in Milestone Overclock is for a Milestone not a defy. You need to go into settings and set a custom freq/vsel.
[Defy General] Passa91:
youtube.com/watch?v=8beV7PaoNvo#t=4m40s

Shown on video playing 720p content. 3630 confirmed?

(make it a link yourself, because this is my first post, I'm not allowed to post hyperlinks..)
[Defy General] xdaid:
Wow, they say the video is 1280 x 720 and looks like playing just perfect.

If they're telling the truth (it's 1280x720) then what else can it be but a 3630?
[Defy General] sarge78:
^Good point. Time for a test...

I've just downloaded the cars 2 and F&F trailer .mp4 found on the droidXforums (1280*720, 24fps, 2756-3000kbps)

It plays flawlessly in the standard player :) Using Rockplayers software decoding method playback is terrible. Could a 3610 do this?

So, it benches like a Droid X... plays the same 720p content a Droid X can...
[Defy General] derbestimmer:
i think the reason for this is, that the mp4 container respectively the h.246 codec is supported in hardware by the omap 36xx family. and since this is also a native android format, i think the buit in player makes use of the hardware support.

if i'm informed right, both vplayer and rockplayer are in an early stage of development and decode the videos in software.

allthough, this sounds like the rockplayer is able to switch into a "native-mode" where it is able to decode at least the natively supported codecs in hardware...

i dunno... the whole thing is very confusing!