yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S I9000 General] pau1200:
I have been trying to compare a good gps and a bad gps(mine) to see what the difference is, i was getting to hung up on SNR but found that my handset would see some satellites better than his, not sure why this happens but it does. I think this is where some of our problems lie, the software even though it can see 8 satellites i dont think it uses them all so i might be using 4 different satellites to his for primary data then you see a difference. What was strange is that during the test i activated wifi and that screwed up my gps completely. when the wifi the was disabled it was still bad until i switched the gps via the app tray and restarted it, then it was o.k again. Cant remember if i had to delete gps data too.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xpcomputers:
Anyone ideas on a good repeatable methodology to test if the orientation of the device makes a tangible difference?

Hypothetically it would appear that having the device turned clockwise in landscape might result in a stronger signal (because it puts the GPS antenna at the top), but that is pure guess! We need to test it in the real world....

Mike
[Galaxy S I9000 General] andrej.marinic:
i have observed the very same behaviour. if i get a lock and wifi is off, and then turn wifi on it will ALWAYS kill the gps lock.

i also found that deactivating data network mode helps in getting a better fix for the gps. once i have a fix, i switch data network mode on again (unlike wifi, it does not kill the gps).
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xpcomputers:
That is fascinating... I've heard others say a similar thing. Is your feeling that it is a driver issue, or a hardware issue.... i.e. do you think it is caused by signal interference in the hardware, or by bad software coding?

Do others have this same repeatable pattern?

From reading a lot of pages about the problems, I suspect we are dealing with multiple issues at once here:-

1) limitations of the hardware design,

2) software & driver flaws,

3) bad configuration & settings issues,

4) broken phone needing warranty repair,

5) user issues (like use of case, bad device positioning in car, false expectations, flawed testing),

6) other things we haven't thought of...

Different reports suggest that not everyone is seeing the same thing with their phones, suggesting that whilst some people might have most, or even all of these problems at once, some lucky others might only have one or two (or even none?), and to make matters worse, which one or two might differ from phone to phone!

Trouble is, with a multi-layered problem like this, even if someone's offered solution fixes a particular issue (say with the settings in this thread?), if that person has other more serious problems with their phone, they might not realise that the fixed settings are making them one step closer to a solution, even if their GPS track is still borked for the time being due to more serious issues.

We need someone to have the holistic view of the problem, and work at all the issues/levels together. Someone popping up and saying "I tried those settings, they don't work", doesn't mean that tweaked settings aren't part of the solution. In the same way, someone popping up and saying that "there isn't a hardware problem because my unit works flawlessly", doesn't help with units where there appears to be a definite hardware problem.

There have been too many harsh words on all sides... not enough listening and piecing together the bigger picture! Here's hoping for more progress and more patience with each other!

Mike

ps only the first paragraph was directed at andrej... the rest is generic observation!
[Galaxy S I9000 General] andrej.marinic:
no idea to be honest. i know next to nothing about GPS, except that it should give you some coordinates :)

my understanding of mobile phone hardware is even worse, if that is even possible.

the fact that i can sometimes get a fix and then just a few minutes later, from the same position i get nothing, does point to either some weird coding bugs (software) or some kind of a loose contact (hardware). people have taken SGS apart and (to my knowledge) weren't that appalled at how things look at first glance. i guess now we need someone who is dedicated and educated enough to have a look at the actual GPS code and try to find any potential anomalies (yes, i'm looking at you Aery).

edit: typos
[Galaxy S I9000 General] pau1200:
I think the wifi thing is probally a driver issue, the reason in this is when i had the wifi on when we put phone back to to back the other phone didnt appear to be affected. It might not be the driver but could it be to do with the stored gps data being corrupt. I say this because once the wifi was turned off the gps symbols flashed as it normally does trying to get a lock and then went solid which was a good sign put the position was wrong and stationary, seemed like someting had got corrupt or driver had froze?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] yubnub:
Hi,

I would like to thank the OP for his input and for sharing his settings. I will try these later.

I also suffer from the "random" GPS on my Galaxy. It can be fine for minutes then just go mad, or some days it does not want to play at all.

My only question is how come no one here on XDA has seemed to dive deeper into this issue? Is the "gps code" part of the device/driver/android not accessable for fettling?

In the dev section people are coding like mad regarding issues like lag fix, colour, sound and RAM etc, but with the GPS issue all we seem to have is conflicting reports/suggestions about which are the best settings to use in the LBS menu.

Is is not possible for someone with the knowledge to get inside the code relating to the GPS and see what they can find?

I understand that it should not be someone on XDA's place to have to do this in the first place, but with the skill level that seems to be on here I am suprised someone has not started to cook up some alternative coding relating to the GPS in an attempt to fix it or at least rule in/out some of the theorys?

Just my genuine 2p on this issue. It is the one thing that is really getting me down about the device.

Thanks again to everyone that is contributing to solving this in what ever way they can.

yub
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Its hard to do something with this problem. If you try work for a solution you get flamed from people here. Look in the treads about gps you will se all of them is spammed with nonsense post and the dev that try to solves a problem will be called all kind of things and don't get the information he wants.

This problem is only in gps area. If you develop something else( lagfix or whatever) you get help.

My conclusion is that many people with gps problem don't want a solution for the problem. That's sad facts.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] t1mman:
We got it going good now, so don't bring this into the thread, it will only encourage em to do so.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
I just explain to the person that ask why dev don't want to solve this issue.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] andrej.marinic:
OP has really done a good job with this thread, it would be a great shame to litter it with any kind of flaming.

Having said that: I bought another SGS just a couple of hours ago for my girl. The battery date shows 5th of october, it's a white SGS, so I think it is going to be interesting to compare GPS between my device and her phone as mine was bought in June. That way we can finally see if the rumours about fixed GPS in newer devices are true. That way we can also (obviously) see if it is hardware related or not.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] madmack:
I might have a clue or two about coding and binaries, although nothing specific to GPS. So here is why we don't have great code-granularity solutions to this problem: the drivers are not open source.

While so many things are, the binaries for the gps chipset are not. Therefore, it'll take some mad reverse engineering skills to get to decode this, let alone understanding what this code does (if you have it in nice readable form) and fix it.

I think you're on to something when you say the problem is with the drivers. I was reading on one of the US Galaxy forums here (forgot if it was the vibrant or Captivate, I believe its the T-mobile one), and once Samsung released the drivers (firmware name: JI6), it seemed to have gotten very good response from users over there. The files they replaced, however, were all not-readable (read: *.so files).
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xpcomputers:
That is exactly the sort of direct comparison we need to be seeing.

Especially if you can get as many things identical between the two devices. But do some tests first before you start changing anything on the new one! ;)

Ultimately, if the new one works better, it would be good to know the firmware version and the various settings it has (how do the settings compare to the ones in the first post?).

Then ideally ultimately, assuming new phone is better, you would update your old one to as close as same firmware and settings and see if your old one improves, or stays the same. That'll help us isolate the difference between the new hardware and various software & settings changes.

Of course that only compares two individual phones... but better than trying to compare phones over the internet by discussion!

Mike
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Im sorry but it won't work.

Im got a old and new one and both work.

I don't it so simple to look at the date and get one on a special date.

Some phone is just bad. Try to accept that.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
@DamianGTO: let's accept whatever comes after results, not before.

Meanwhile, the difference in city navigation I get when using a "gps booster" program forcing faster updates is a quicker awareness of turns, and this matters in the city.

Also improvements in turn awareness if I use control plane instead of supl with supl.google.com . I'm using copilot.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Well this has already been looking into and people could not find any proof that it depending on witch date you did buy the phone.

Like i did write i got 2 phone on different date and both work.

I still believe its just common production error that people se.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] mauro_s:
After the last update to FROYO the GPS works much better, fast fix and rarely lost signal. In car, however, I noticed that I have to place it near the rearview mirror, in the area where the windshield is not shielded. Using NAVIGON or SIGIC the navigation is quite good, but there are still problems in the city center. With SGS the accuracy is generally between 5 meters and 15 meters. However, compared with a SiRF Star III Bluetooth GPS is no match. The SIFSTAR always get an accuracy of 1 to 4 meters also in the city.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Jeshter2000:
Well if you go to www.androidcentral.com you can see that the facinate is going to get a mantenaince update and they that the gps problem is solved maybe we can port it to gt-9000 when its out. ...

Sent from my Intergalactic Supah Dupah Spaceship¡¡!!!
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
Guys, let's focus on the spirit and objectiveness of the original post and try to keep the thread clean. When you don't have a valid contribution, please refrain yourselves.

You can consider a software accurate if it provides valid results on other phones. I've noticed how CoPilot corrects the tracking to be able to show a coherent route. Of course I'm not driving in parallel to the road for a bunch of kilometres.

That's why I consider google maps more faithful to whatever signal it handles in regards to what it displays. But as OP said, any application can be processing an already computed mix of location sources too, that's why he made his own.

BTW, can anyone test car navigation with OP settings except changing SUPL to Control Plane?

For me it seems to get aware faster when I make a turn. Using CoPilot, city driving.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Well its default on froyo. Not much to change.

I did flash the phone and put in copilot and updated Google maps.

Did take a ride fir about 1 1/2 around and in the city.

Google map is the worst program i have used.

First it did not find me.

Then when i drive it show my place to late. Like dragging the position.

So when i should turn i already past the road.

When i stopped the position still moving.

Sometime it just jump to different place.

I did have a fun time. But i would never use it for a navigator if i want to a place i never been at.

I stopp using it and started copilot.

Well that was very different.

It was spot on.

If i turn, stop or started then copilot did show me that.

It did always show me where i was.

So this was i little test i did.

Many say Google map so good and nothing is wrong with it. How can i get this results then?

I did see the differents and how bad a program can make the sgs.

Don't tell me copilot do this and that to calculating my position and they fake it.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
So default on Froyo is supl.google.com but set as Control Plane? Ok...

My old Blackberry Storm had a SIRFStar III IIRC, and it was a whole different thing regarding awareness of turns. But had stupid policies regarding SD card access that's why it only had onboard (online) GPS software.

Anyway, these GPS booster programs made my Copilot aware of turns faster also, and for me that means more reliable guidance, which matters more than battery in regards to car navigation.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xpcomputers:
What is the "control plane" setting? Where do I find it? I'll happily try it out.

I did wonder myself if the google settings were the best available.

Mike
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
In the AGSP mode, inside SUPL/CP settings.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] JaGuR:
Turn off wifi, and sensor aid, put your phone in a mount on the front windscreen, and use dedicated navigation software, then show me any problems.

I think people having problems have WIFI assistance, and or have their phone in their pocket, and or back pack.

In saying that, I will agree it is not the best GPS phone about, but if you use it with a navigation system on your windscreen, I think it should work pretty flawlessly
[Galaxy S I9000 General] yubnub:
Thats very interesting,

it does amaze me that "if" samsung" have actually fixed the GPS issue, then why not roll out the fix to all variants straight away.

Lets hope that the update is indeed the "fix" and that it can be ported over

yub
[Galaxy S I9000 General] maesebit:
This GPS thing is worth being on X-files.

If the problem is hardware related:

How do some people claim they got they GPS fixed by changing the settings???

If the problem is software related:

How can it be that the fix that works for some doesn't work for others???

I thought technology was all about science with empiric proof and logic explanation. But this Galaxy S GPS thing looks to be more about witchcraft and mythology....

Anyhow, it smells pretty fishy IMO.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] webstar_s:
Just took my galaxy s (JPA/JPP/JP4) for a drive using igo myway 8.4.2, and it was pretty accurate and wasn't throwing me around in wrong streets and such stuff. Since it was a fairly short drive, I wouldn't dare to say It's working without problems. I'll definitely try it out some more tomorrow, and then get back with info. By the way, OP settings were the same as my default, except accuracy which was at 50.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] endisforever:
i agree with this i have just got navigon and done some tests driving and its flawless.

if i use google maps nav its really bad for nav keeping lock etc going to diff streets laggin behind where i actually am on thre road.

i was away in london this weekend and used google places and maps to find things .then used maps to nav to them but it was slow at locking and somtimes wouldnt register gps lock at all.

but if i looked up the post code using places for where i wanted to be and put the post code in navigon it worked almost instantly and without issue. nav totaly flawless

i would recommend anyone having gps issues to try a proper nav app before saying the gps is broken.

on my own evidence i would say there is something between maps and the sgs that just dont seem to work right. it seems wierd but thats my personnal opinion based on my own experiance and phone yours could be diffrent. it could be that navigon and such like apps have assisted software to keep it on track i dont nkow i am no expert but i do know navigon works very well for me

i was on the hate the sgs gps side untill i got navigon was contemplating selling for htc as i use gps alot but will stick with it.

runnin 2.2 kies update and stock gps settings
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
The only "miracle" Copilot and other software do that Google Maps and Navigation don't do (or at least not as much) is a better speculation of the real position, taking into account your route and nearby roads. Usually Copilot is precise but try turning on purpose before the suggested turn, or observing the behaviour when other roads cross yours.

Also, and this should be avoidable (I think, by disabling sensor aiding) on Froyo, when I turned from left lane to right lane on a highway CoPilot assumed I had followed the previous exit. Those are clear demonstrations that even good speculations have their limits if the signal is not fast and accurate.

The Google apps show better what kind of signal Copilot has to deal with, to speculate what track are you really following.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] idandush:
I have a BIG problem to lock on GPS signal , after all the "right" settings.

clearly the sensor is weak , i had the phone next to a HTC desire , and he had a lock after 10~ sec . while i couldn't get a lock at all.

i love the phone , but this is really sucky from samsung. i guess its my mistake for buying it .
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
1. Delete GPS data

2. Reboot

3. Test again

4. If it didn't work, try the free "GPS optimization" from the Market. Forces more GPS updates, makes locking and turn awareness faster, might spend more battery. I'm using now the paid "GPS Booster" from the same developer, basically a "set and forget" version.

5. Provide us your feedback afterwards ;)
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
I dont buy that copilot is better on calculating the position.

Google map has the same data to work with.

But copilot is spot on for me.

It show me where i am.

No it don't change lane and it don't mess in cross roads.

It really do show me where i am.

Google map don't.

Try to explain that.

Im not the only one that sees this.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
No i don't live in Africa.

I don't know how far i have travel the last year.

In i guess i have used the sgs for 3-4000 km now.

So i know how it works and what's works with it.

So to tell me that i have not tested it is just to funny.

No it don't work 100%, but none gps do that if you use it alot.

Right now i don't have a work.

But i have worked with computers.

Im also a programmer. Both on my spare time and i have worked with it to.

So yes im a developer and i know alot of computer/electronic.

I also has been contracted to find bugs in program. I also been sued for finding bugs. :-P

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xpcomputers:
Let's not make this personal. Better if we focus on the facts ay our disposal rather than pick on each other.

ALL reports and opinions are useful, as they help us get a bigger picture.

Regarding some people reporting Google Maps & Nav lagging behind your position, is this with a good lag fix applied running on the phone? Just a thought, it could be that those who see their position up to date (i.e. not behind them) in Google Maps & Nav are running a better Phone lagfix settings, and so the phone is able to keep up better! (i.e. Could be less to do with GPS accuracy - which also clearly had problems)

For those with good experience in Google Maps, which lagfix are you using (Voodoo, OCLF, etc)? Same question to those getting slow lagging updates in Google Maps & Nav?

Mike
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
Can someone test in Froyo with and without sensor aiding, to check how much influence does it get on the test cases I have reported?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] darkoroje:
The lag in Google Maps has nothing to do with file system lag that various lag fixes address. The behaviour of Google Navigation to continue in straight line even after one has left the main road is new in Froyo and is the result of Samsung's GPS "$optimization". They are trying to make up for bad GPS performance by using various software tricks
[Galaxy S I9000 General] ~gtw:
No, it was not introduced in Froyo, the issue happens on 2.1 too... (my phone)
[Galaxy S I9000 General] titooo7:
Just a lil bit offtopic. There is a facebbok group of users complaning about the GPS on Samsung Galaxy S: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=149974985048866

If we can get a decent amount of people joining the group we could make some noise and Samsung might hear.. It won't take you more than 2 minutes to join the group, so let's do it!
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Samsung will not care if you don't take it to a repair center.

That's your right and you have 1 year warranty. Use it. Samsung will see that more..... If all people with problem did that it would make more buzz.

Now with Maby 5-10% of all people here that complain will not make any buzz..

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] foxbat121:
Now explain this to me:

I'm now using an external BT GPS mouse and Google Map has been spot on 100%. Turn off external GPS, Google Map will jump all over the place traveling on the same road, on the same phone.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] foxbat121:
That's true. There is another thread here with a leaked Samsung internal email to service centers (in Spanish). It seems to say that if you bring your phone in for repair at least two times for GPS issue, Samsung will replace the motherboard to solve your GPS problem. However, the new motherboard parts are not yet available.

That seems to be the concrete proof that GPS is a hardware issue. And the only solution is to replace the circuit board. There is no software solution after all.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
I have told all many time if you got this bad gps its hardware foult and should be repaired. The rest can be solved with software. Its so simple.

But if you don't take it to a repair center then you don't give Samsung a chance to fix it either.

Than i think its your own foult that you have a defective sgs.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 General] henriquesb:
In a desperate attempt to go back to experimentation and results, I've tried accuracy 50 on my Eclair JM9, turns seem to be detected a little bit better than with accuracy 30.

Not enough to be sure or to call it an improvement, but at least it's not worse.

Will soon test after upgrading to Froyo with and without sensor aiding. You guys fell again into discussions with Damian just like in the other threads...

Pro/con advocacy of google maps or asking people to accept their phone as it is does not bring any improvement to them.

And Samsung procedure of exchanging hardware after two complaints might be a standard service repair procedure, no guarantees the new motherboard will work better (and the issue might even be antenna but standard procedure forcing them to exchange your motherboard LOL).