yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[HD7 General] yly3:
You are missing the point of this phone. While I agree on some of your good points (but few) this is supposed to be the Zune phone , the equivalent of the iPhone, basically an eye-candy multimedia-device which should also do basic comunication in a fast and easy way. I also came a long way over the years playing with Symbian & WM 5-6.5 and I loved all the tweeking and extra customization you had BUT to be honest I got bored with it.

As years passed I saw mobile phones becoming the substituent of the PC but also a substiuent of its problems.Just look at the past 2-3 years. Now we have discussions about freckin RAM and GHz when the whole point of the phone was JUST to run smooth and work fine ,not to mention the fact that battery development has been left with the same batteries from 2006 or so.

Basically it just got stucked.I was freckin tired of walking in a mobile shop and seing a bunch of touchscreen with a zillion icons as wallpaper.

Where was the excitement of actually buying a phone for having something new?

That was the main reason since I never bought a touchscreen phone and I have sticked with my (g)old E71 for the time being.

Android is IMO a laggy joke. Yes , it's still lagy and that is why I didn't buy a high-end smartphone untill now , the HD7.

I don't want to pay 400 euros for a laggy interface.

It's been 3 years already since the iPhone and it has still been the fastest OS with no lag until WP7.

Why my view may be a little off-topic I think this was the main idea of the WP7.Getting ridd of those "Really?!" moments.

I want a phone in 2010 which runs fast,smoooth and adds the basic customization(it's where WP7 currently lacks but it's not terrible).

For I-can't-find-my-sfnag.dll-complaiment people should buy/use their laptops

I hope WP7 rises as remembers this "high-end competition" what the purpose of a (multimedia) phone really is
[HD7 General] poopilot:
I think yly3 has a point - one of the main features of WM7 (for better or worse) was the increased reliance on cloud storage. Maybe this was why most of the phones we're seeing are only 8Gb.

I think anyone coming from WM6.5 expecting WP7 to be an incremental upgrade, including existing functionality is likely to be disappointed.

What I foresee is mainly 3rd party apps making use of an opened up Bluetooth stack to gain access to your skydrive as if it were local storage. Similarly, having the option to save email attachments to your skydrive would be neat (I believe .docs can be saved)

For me, this is either genius, or a disaster - if you're away from a signal, your files are inaccessible, which is frustrating. That said, I'm rarely away from a signal these days, so maybe it's a non-issue.

Time will tell.
[HD7 General] clarkdevlin:
I have been using my HD7 for 2 weeks now, I love it and hate it at the same time. I love it for its smooth, flawless and simple user interface, but hate cause its just too simple... I know and expected that this was a locked up phone before I bought it but.. even some basic functions that I was used to doing on my HD2 was missing. Functions like sending files thru BT from my phone to any BT device. Even some basic configuration like adjusting the volume of the ringer is not clear on configuration page. its just a toggle on/off and not to mention that i can't use custom ringtones? I loved using custom mp3 for ringtones.. cause in a crowded place.. I would now that my phone was the one ringing. And just like steve said...the phone didn't come with a nice leather pouch to keep it safe, for a pricy phone like this. I just wish they would improve wp7 much sooner so I could enjoy using this phone more and get my money's worth.
[HD7 General] Audio:
The first update is due early 2011, so don't get your hopes up for ANY updates untill then. Rumours are that Copy/paste, BT, & Camera are all big factors in the first update.

I can't really complain after a solid 3 weeks of owning the phone. Yes there are a few niggles, but it's MUCH better than Iphones OS v1 was. So looking good imo.

Also all the comments i've seen on this thread appear to be on WP7, not the HD7 itself. Slightly confusing by the Thread title.
[HD7 General] clarkdevlin:
well thats good news i don't mind the wait.. but i hope they do fix it with the update... but those are for WP7. the comment i have for the device itself (with HTC HD7) is that it didnt came with a pouch like my HD2, as all new phones ...it will take time here before i could buy a protective sleeve or rubber whatever. i just hope i don't drop or scratch it with my coins and keys in my pocket. also the camera button is hard to press... wish there was configuration where i could use the touch sensitive keys to take a picture. and speaking of wich.. the search key (bing key) really bugs me. i kept miss touching it for no reason.. and bing keeps getting in my way even when i'm playing games
[HD7 General] poopilot:
I've always been of the opinion that if a phone needs a case, it's a badly designed phone.
[HD7 General] Kiwi_Dave:
+1

My first purchase was Need for Speed, and the number of times I've been about to complete a circut, only to nudge the 'serach' button, which kicks me out of the race and I need to start again, is a real pain in the 'a**'.

It would be great if this button could be disabled while gaming, it's just too sensative and close to where you need to hold the phone....:(
[HD7 General] Steve_Walker:
Don't get me wrong @poopilot I do like the phone but the omission of a simple sleeve for the phone smacks of cheapness. And anything with a screen this large needs some protection in a pocket or on the desk, all to easy to scratch.

And yes the thread title @Audio could be more specific - but these are my view of WP7 on an HD7 - so it is pretty on topic for HD7 General. The comments would be the same for WP7 for all devices as they are all the same. I am just saying that it is a shame for something so late in the game that all the i & t's were not dotted and crossed before we got our hands on it.

And to @yly3 - your analagy is flawed. If Windows 7 is the succesor to Vista in the way WM7 is to 6.5 - how would you feel if Windows 7 had no control panel, you could not save locally and the only network you could use was Microsofts? I am pretty darn sure you'ld feel agrived. But say if I don't want to share pictures on skydrive - I want to BT or MMS or Twitter or Facebook I want to choose - I don't want to be limited to a single option.

If you play with a Desire you get loads of options for most things - hell I cannot even change the MMS picture size! LOL! Bring on regedit that's all I can say! I must be crazy but you cannot see MS's usability labs having an iphone 1 and thinking "this is all people need, they wont cut and paste or want to do anything other than gaze at the UI"! If you are going to call a phone a smartphone it does in fact need to be smart. Not average.
[HD7 General] yly3:
I see what you mean but again this was named Windows Phone 7 , not Windows Mobile 7 and Microsoft stated many times it's something new , build completely from zero.

The main problem of WP7 would be, as you pointed, the lack of choice. Honestly, I don't know how many really use copy-paste. I don't know if I barely used it 4-5 times the last couple of years but that's just me not the whole world. And I am very surprised people still use MMS.

This is also a strategy to have your product upgraded and keep interest in it just like Apple has done it in the last years.

Maybe I am over-excited for finally having something new and fresh offered and according to the constant praise and support of Steve Ballmer this platform will get more updates than we have seen on any other mobile OS so far (it is Microsoft after all) thus having the first update 2 months after the release date.

So, basically I won't go further and maybe I don't have a strong argument against what you said but what I tend to see in nowadays reviews is that most of the people don't seem to get the whole picture and analyze a new phone only by checking their personal list of must-have features (again , agreeing that most of them really are a must).
[HD7 General] rob_p:
There are definitely things that are missing, no question, but I think they've got it right for a first release. If they waited to get everything done then we'd never see the OS. It's completely different to Android, and indeed WM6.5 I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that WM6.5 will be continued alongside WP7. I like the fact that it's all simple to use (and I'm a tech head). Sure it can occasionally be irritating where I want to get into the bluetooth settings for example to configure it more closely, but ultimately I can completely understand why they've done it. All you have to do is go in and turn it on, then choose a device to pair with. It involves very few steps which was exactly the spec for this OS.

I'm sure that in time there will be options to configure things more closely, but they will be hidden away so that you have to consciously choose to go into the advanced settings. Android was real fun for a while, something different, but I actually think that it's far too techy. After a while I got bored of everything being a bit clunky and hidden behind too many menus etc... To use everyday, it's just not that usable, not when you compare it to something like WP7.

I'm really looking forward to writing some apps for WP7 as I think it provides a different challenge - to make your app consistent with the UI and make it as user-friendly as possible. I think the possibilities are massive with WP7, and as long as MS really commits to it, rolls out regular updates to keep on improving the UI - crucially without breaking what it already does - then it could be a huge hit.
[HD7 General] kromosto:
Steve_Walker totally agreed with you. WM6.5 has something different but with looking at WP7 ???

I am asking myself why should i get a wp7 phone instead of iphone? And the only reason i can find is 4.3" display :D.

Microsoft really needs to think clearly and understand they must make something different not a ios kind os.

MS will going to loose much
[HD7 General] jz9833:
1) The media player is alot better.

2) Zune Pass.

3) WP7 is alot faster than any iPhone. My entire family has 3GSs and iPhone 4s and they will even admit my phone is alot faster to do anything. I havent even turned my lag fixed Vibrant on this I got this HD7 also.

4) App intergeneration. WP7 really does take this to a different level.

You'd be a fool to say WP7 doesnt have its flaws and bugs, but you'd also be a fool to ignore everything GREAT it does. Android does alot of things well but is anything great? iOS does some great things, but honestly I prefer WP7 over iOS.
[HD7 General] kromosto:
1) OK

2) I dont care about zune pass

3) That is about hardware not wp7

4) So what? How many wp7 apps out there?

Sorry but as we see you have strong feelings on wp7 and want to defend it too much but even you cant write more then 4 not meaning too much advantages. Because even MS designed it to be a is imitation.

I had hope on wp7 was thinking to sell my hd2 and buy a hd7 because ios and iphone is not a phone for me (dont like them), Android is just what you said does alot of thing but not anything great. But WP7 is worse then both at least for now. Because MS just looked ios and android and copy them with removing all the good features on wm6.5 all the good features i prefer a wm6.5 phone over iphone that is nonsense. most of the users may not care about this but i care.
[HD7 General] Sultan1993:
iPhone 4 has better hardware! A4 is better than Snapdragon, and iPhone 4 has dedicated GPU - PowerVGR 535! which is faster than Adreno!

iPhone 3Gs also has dedicated PowerVGR GPU, but don't which model exactly!

So, it's not hadware! it's the OS
[HD7 General] kromosto:
i am not comparing iphone vs hd7 hardware. i am saying that with suitable hardware every os can be fast.
[HD7 General] jz9833:
You might not care about Zune Pass but for anyone who wanted an mp3 player / phone this is the biggest selling factor. In fact I'd say zune integration is the best thing WP7 has going for it right now.

I am not really defending it that much also. Look my profile and see the last thread I made. I clearly pointed several huge glaring flaws in WP7. In that same thread I said more than 4 good things about it also. Before calling someone out, look at their previous posts; especially when trying to call out their position on things :rolleyes: .

Here is a link:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=835095

WP7 is missing features 6.5 had but that was a matured and dying (dead now) OS, this is a completely new start. I am not over critical of it becasue i knew going in it was a first iteration OS. And for a first iteration OS it is far better than what iOS and android were. It actually does some things far better than them right now too. It has flaws, but ignoring strength and focusing only on flaws is wrong in my opinion.

I am also confused about your position on the speed of WP7. First you say its the hardware, which android and the iphone 4 have better hardware, and then you say its the OS and that backs up the statement i originally made. The OS is optimized to be faster than both iOS and android. That is a HUGE plus for WP7. It's doing more with less, don't over look that.

Again let me repeat my statement, it does have limitations but everything it does, it does the best. More features will be added with updates.
[HD7 General] f1restarter:
LMAO :rolleyes:

(10 char)
[HD7 General] kromosto:
:) About speed i am saying that every os can be very fast with suitable hardware. Think like this a wp7 phone with nokia n61 hardware can it be fast ofcourse no. is this wp7s fault ofcourse not so as you cant blame an os for not suitable hardware also you cant say os is good because it runs good on suitable hardware.

also i agree with you about wp7 being a new os and 6.5 is dying but why not use 6.5s good features on a new starting os from the beginning. They are the things which you did better then ios and android so ms should glorify them with using them in the new os.

this is my idea ofcourse i dont except everyone or even anyone to agree with me. wm6.5 with htc sense and cht nearly got all i need. some more social network integration with a really working pptp vpn is all i need with my current setup.
[HD7 General] jz9833:
Because 6.5 and 7 are built on completely different platforms. You can not just pull features from 6.5 and put them in 7 because the programming language is different.

6.5 was good for its time, but do you know the main reason why I hear why people do not want to buy WP7 phones? All the headaches they got from 6.5 devices...

WM left a bad taste in ALOT of peoples mouths and that is still showing in WP7. Yes 6.5 might of been good for some but for most it was complete and utter crap.

Will alot of these features eventually be built into WP7 if enough people want them? I think so, but they will be built and coded to meet WP7's standards.
[HD7 General] kromosto:
this is not a good excuse. you can re-code that features in new programming language as you have the algorithm unless your new language doesnt have the capability the old one had then it will be stupid to change the language.
[HD7 General] jz9833:
by that theory it would be easy to port a programs over form any OS to any other OS. WP7 is as different from WM as iOS is to WM. If you try to just simply port things over rather than starting from scratch you are going to get a crap product.

Expecting something like this is unreasonable even if some people do not see it as a "good excuse"

Just be patient, if WP7 isnt for you now, just stick to WM 6.5 until it gets all the features you like.

You also have to note microsoft went out of their way to advertise and display this as a completely new fresh start.
[HD7 General] kromosto:
i am not talking about porting. yes i agree porting is not good and i dont want any porting but this does not explain not adding the copy paste feature to the new os from the begining and leaving it to first update. it should be a fundemantel feature of the os.

[/QUOTE]Just be patient, if WP7 isnt for you now, just stick to WM 6.5 until it gets all the features you like.

You also have to note microsoft went out of their way to advertise and display this as a completely new fresh start.[/QUOTE]

now actually you got me. really by reading these i realise my real problem even i didnt know from the beginning of this argument.

my problem is not with wp7. you are right about what you said if i be patient it will get the futures i need. and as you said this is a new os started better from ios and android. my problem is about trusting MS in mobile os market.
[HD7 General] Steve_Walker:
Speed or the perception of it?

I have to say compared to my HD2 the HD7 feels "faster" when doing certain tasks but not everything.

Yes with the right hardware I am sure no matter how poorly you write or optimise code it can appear fast.

But that was not my issue, in fact I don't have an issue with WP7 it is merely a group of observations that I made in my first post.

I like some of the new features but there are and always will be bugs with first releases of software but and this is a large BUT; some of the missing options are those which make a phones usability. I like to sometimes use the storage of my HD2 to transport about some files I need from time to time and can use email or BT or whatever to get them from the phone - I can no longer do this in WP7. Now the cloud is *good* but I don't want to have to use a PC and other tricks to get a file from my phone to another.

I have some documents that I keep which are work related on my phone - I can no longer do that as they've either got to be in email as attachments or on the web and then downloaded on demand - which for that I might as well not have local copies. I like local storage for some things - I like to be able to create folders for SMS and emails to keep important messages in - I can't do this now as you've no longer got the option*.

It is about choice. I know Microsoft wanted to make the phone simple to use - but please not that simple. My old Nokia whatever from years ago at least I could do with that what I wanted to do and it was not a smart phone! Just a phone.

*Yes I know IOS4 got folders and yes the first update for IOS phones got copy and paste - and yes WP7 does not have it yet. I don't use it that often - but I would like it there *to* use if I needed to.

The missing configuration options are a pain and no doubt people will expose them. For me the WP7 was a step up from 6.5 (which I don't hate at all) - re written or not the language is not important "Hello world" looks the same in Basic as it does in C# or ASM!

It is about what you can provide from the underlying OS - options there are exposed and need to be coded for in a way that does maintain the friendly look and feel of 7 but allowing the end user some more control over features that we've all become used to.

If you want a custom MP3 ring tone or message alert then why not? Why get left with the choices that someone else felt you would like. I like my ring tone and message alert I've had since my 6600; I have used them on every phone I have owned - but I cannot on my HD7.

That's my observations - choice has been limited in what the end user can do. Ignoring the bugs in 7 which are currently well document on the web - it is the reduction in smartphoneness that I am not fond off.

Change when change is needed and not just for the sake of change - someone once said or maybe I am just too old for WP7 :-(
[HD7 General] poopilot:
I wouldn't say too old for wp7. Possibly too old for v1.0 products, and the rollercoaster ride that is the early adoption of new tech, though!
[HD7 General] nrfitchett4:
Wait. If hardware is all that matters than why is it that my hd7 is running laps around my highly customized hd2? According to your theory since the hardware is the same, they should work the same....

I am confused as to why people thought this was going to be any different. Except for the outlook syncing problem which most didn't know about, we knew the limitations coming in. Its like buying an SUV then complaining about the gas mileage. It is what it is. Microsoft obviously wants to condense all your mobile needs to a live acct. Email, IM, games, multimedia can now all be contained by a single thing. I don't think for most this is a bad thing.
[HD7 General] kromosto:
are they running the same os ? no

what i say is : EVERY OS can run fast on SUITABLE hardware for itself. Yes hd2 and hd7 has the same hardware but wp7 runs faster then wm6.5 so this means hd2 hasnt got suitable hardware for wm6.5. now you will say so with the same hardware if wp7 runs faster then wm6.5 then it means wp7 is a faster os. yes it might be true but this is not the point i trying to say. my point is comparing two oses in this situation with speed is not meaning anything, because if a company managed to put an core i7 720qm with a 5870m in hd7s case and run wm6.5 on it without any lag and faster then wp7 on hd7. will this makes wm6.5 a better os then wp7? can you get my point. yes running faster on same hardware is an advantage but we are comparing the functionality. now if we return to my question it will be more clear? "will this makes wm6.5 a better os then wp7?" if your answer is yes then this means wp7 has serious problems, if your answer is not then this means speed doesnt mean anything to us because making wm6.5 faster then wp7 doesnt made anydifferance.
[HD7 General] rob_p:
But surely the point is that different OS should be compared on similar hardware. The whole point is that WP7 has been re-written from the ground up. It's been written with specific features in mind. Whereas WM6.5 is really pocket PC that's had code added and changed over many iterations, XP7 is completely clean and fresh. The devs weren't constrained by something that was written in a completely different time for much simpler purposes. As such, they have written much more efficient code, using toolsets that are geared towards a much more graphically intense UI.

WP7 is a much more efficient OS as a result of being based on a clean foundation, and so it's always more likely to run better than WM6.5 on the same hardware. You say that if you put a Core I7 processor in a phone and ran WM6.5 it would be much better, but it wouldn't - it would still have the same problems, the same inefficiencies. It would be quicker, but then WP7 would be quicker still...
[HD7 General] kromosto:
This is nearly similar to what i am trying to say not exactly but similar.

Ok i am passing this speed thing as we all had a lot of speed, lag , performance problems with wm6.5 , wp7 blinded us with its speed.

but still we have missing features problem. if MS released WP7 as iphones competitor and make a wm7 to continue mobile os platform i am ok with that. yes most of the people dont care the features i want in my phone but i am sure i am not only the one too. so killing wm style os totally will hurt MS in my opinion.
[HD7 General] nrfitchett4:
how will releasing wp7 hurt microsoft? They were bleeding customers anyways. That's the problem. What you and many other hard core users want to do with the phone is probably not even 1% of the smartphone population. That is why they had to change.
[HD7 General] kromosto:
i am not a hardcore phone user. but feel comfortable with some freedom. yes they were losing customers and made wp7 for stoping this and for gaining customers but can wp7 do this ? with this release my opinion is no. wp7 doesnt give a good reason to that %99 non hardcore customers to choose a wp7 instead of iphone.

yes i agree wp7 does some features better then ohers but are they enough. i dont think so. wp7 cant make enough differance to make people choose it.