yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[G2 and Desire Z General] john boot:
My phone isnt quite a loose as in the video, but it does droop if I pick it up by the top section rather than the base & also if I am lying down and hold by keyboard it will start to shut... I kinda expected to have a loose hinge based on reviews that I had seen for G2 & at this point its only a very minor niggle, so I wont do any return until I find out there are Desire Zs out there that actually have a firm hinge.

On another note, I noticed yesterday that the black backing of the keyboard is a bit bubbly.. Im hoping that the backing wont start coming away down the road... but I guess only time will tell.
[G2 and Desire Z General] schriss:
I found it hard to do what was shown on video, I never grabbed phone like this before. It never opened on its own even slightly. Also owned TP2 and never held it by the screen. I dont think people would actually ever hold it like that.

No offense to anyone, I just dont see any issues with my hinge. I know it opens when I hold it like on video or upside down, but If I havent read some posts, I would never try it.

This is just my personal opinion on the "hinges" :D
[G2 and Desire Z General] JupiterDroid:
The design is for the way we hold and use our phones.. I feel for you bro, but noone holds their phone at the angle your showing this at..

I have had no problem at all yet with the everyday use of this beast;))

JD
[G2 and Desire Z General] daft.71:
Honestly, at first it bothered, but really, it really starts to make sense for me now how it acts. If our hinge would be stronger, it'd be more difficult to open it and might have us actually break it.

Also, when I hold it while typing, I instinctively put my index fingers along the side of the keyboard/screen (once it is opened) and type with my thumbs. That way, it's impossible for the screen to fold back in closed position.

When I pick up my phone, I really don't pick it up by only one of the parts (screen/base). It's actually quite heavy at 180g and if I don't want to drop it, I rather pick up nicely and firmly.

So, really, after 4 days with my phone, the thing that bothers me more now isn't the screen, but the weight difference between my old Samsung Galaxy S (with gel back) and the Z.

Actually, funny anecdote, while playing Angry Birds, I actually opened the keyboard so I had a better grip on the phone.
[G2 and Desire Z General] JupiterDroid:
+1000000

QUOTE:Also, when I hold it while typing, I instinctively put my index fingers along the side of the keyboard/screen (once it is opened) and type with my thumbs. That way, it's impossible for the screen to fold back in closed position:END QUOTE

I could not have put it better myself....

JD
[G2 and Desire Z General] Pickx:
I think I'll just keep mine until we get confirmation that better-designed Desire Zs have been produced. The replacement is from HTC and not my supplier, so I should be able to do it at any time during the next 2 years... right?
[G2 and Desire Z General] wrapper:
Mine is pretty solid - I even text in bed and it doesn't fall. I have opened the keyboard once or twice by accident, which is quite funny..
[G2 and Desire Z General] schlockmaster:
Desire Z on Bell Canada Hinge problem

I have already gone through two DZ's and both have the "weak" hinge. Thankfully mine does not do what is shown in the Video in post #1, thats definitely a defect in my opinion. Just to compare notes on a relative basis here is what mine does.

When the phone is closed I turn it sideways (landscape) lift it from the bottom and then press on the left and right edges with my thumbs. The screen snaps nicely into place. If I then grap the device by the top two corners of the screen and lift it straight up and hold it perfectly horizontally the keyboard drops down. However, if I lift it up at a slight angle the keyboard remains "attached" to the screen. It seems as though there is a magnet of some kind holding it in place.

I instinctively hold it with forefingers and thumb to type much as I do on my Motorola Milestone which slides straight up and down and has no "hinge".

As for lying on my back and typing in Bed if I just hold the bottom portion keyboard along then the screen drops down. HOWEVER that is an extremely awkward way to type for anyone I would imagine.

The question is, did HTC design it to work in this way knowing that people "instinctively" do these types of actions in this way?? I am not sure they conduct such a detailed ergonomic study. There are people that have no hinge issues at all, but unless they apply specific tests as I did here it would be difficult to know if they are experiencing similar problems. If they are doing what comes naturally and holding it as nature intended then they would not deem that there are any problems.

Just my two cents.
[G2 and Desire Z General] GlitchZero:
This is worse than the "Is my trackpad wobbling?!" threads on CrackBerry. It's supposed to be loose so you can open it with one finger, according to HTC. If you don't like it, take it back (you can definitely get a refund, since it's only been out like 4 days or whatever) and get a new phone. Seriously. You want a stiff slide, get a Milestone, then you have nothing to complain about.
[G2 and Desire Z General] toosas:
Bought 2 today, they're (identically!) quite loose. I was really worried before buying that I'm gonna get the 'loose one' but to be honest it's not an issue as it's a very weird way to hold your phone and like others said you instinctively hold the device with your thumb and index fingers as that's where they end up when you open the phone. Furthermore, if opened and held vertically just by the bottom, the top part stays in place and only drops down at ~40 deg angle, so unless you text a lot in bed while holding the phone upside down and holding it just by the bottom bit, you won't have a problem. If I lift it up like in the video (it's actually quite an effort) the parts will separate.
[G2 and Desire Z General] hamish909:
Yeah, mine is the same, but dont know why people are making such a big fuss on it, why not for example make a big fuss on the speaker quality instead?
[G2 and Desire Z General] JupiterDroid:
Yeah the speaker is ****, its the one thing that is crap with this phone...

Sent from my Desire Z Beast
[G2 and Desire Z General] vinokirk:
Did you ever think choosing a phone would be like choosing a girlfriend. At least with the Desire Z you can test it out in the shop to see if its loose before getting it home and having a nasty surprise lol XD
[G2 and Desire Z General] anther9:
I never knew I had a hinge problem until I watched the videos. Some people have way to much time on their hands.
[G2 and Desire Z General] andrewilley:
Hmm, you maybe right. I'm using my second phone now, and unless I carelessly pick it up by the edge it does not seem to be a problem in general use - so far, anyway.

Andre
[G2 and Desire Z General] john boot:
The time most people had on theirs hands was due to all the delays in pre orders meaning we would watch review vids lol... but yeah I agree that in everyday use the hinge isnt really an issue (unless using the keyboard when laying on your back)
[G2 and Desire Z General] muminisko:
Just reply on Ur post this way.Nothing happend :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] seattleboi1982:
mine is a little loose, but isn't bad. I'll have to keep an eye on it.
[G2 and Desire Z General] vinokirk:
mine is quite loose :( Its the missis phone tho so lets see if she notices :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] hrcro:
There is review by telefonino and hinge seems more or less solid. Could somebody from Italy translate that part about hinge?
[G2 and Desire Z General] lordevol:
I'm Italian and I can translate that for you:

Andrea: "Desire Z open: if you play with it, turn it upside down and tossing it remains quite stable.

Even when closed, it has not big problems, and it's very difficult to take only one part too.

The “Z” movement, in daily use, doesn't create any problem.

We do not know if in a few years the springs will be ok like today, but speaking of today this open/close system is ok"

I have my desire Z here in my hand and it opens a bit when upside down, but Andrea is saying right: it's so difficult to grab this phone only with the top or the back: nearly impossible in normal daily use :)

Don't worry guys, if you do not buy this phone is not because of the hinge. But for the weight, or the bugs with skype and location. Or the whole "sense"

Thanks everybody for this forum, for the rom's and for all this work that I love so much!
[G2 and Desire Z General] p3eps:
I wasn't so bothered about the hinge being loose to open - it was more the top wobbling when the device was closed that bothered me.

Anyway - sent the phone back today by Special Delivery for a refund.
[G2 and Desire Z General] onlystreet:
I feel that way too, about the wobbling. Too bad I have it unlocked and voided the warranty. Otherwise I would have returned it.
[G2 and Desire Z General] onlystreet:
Does anyone know how to return the phone when it is unlocked? I purchased it from Bell in canada
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
How can unlocking it (presumably SIM-unlocking ?) void the warranty ? Especially relating to something physical about the hinge.
[G2 and Desire Z General] silencer51:
Aaargh. I'm all ready to order this phone to replace my Milestone and I'm hesitating because of this hinge issue.
[G2 and Desire Z General] setspeed:
I want to get it too. I'm torn over whether to buy online at somewhere like superetrader for £420 so I get the option to return under Distance Selling Regs, or to pony up £445 to Carphone Warehouse in-store, so that I can have them open a few boxes enabling me to pick the best one. Of course, buying in person means I'll lose the right to get it replaced outright in the first week if it does quickly develop a loose hinge.

What to do...
[G2 and Desire Z General] onlystreet:
yeah, it is wired, not supposed to make sense, but it is what Bell says, and apple does this too. I guess most cell service providers do this too.
[G2 and Desire Z General] craiglay:
Got my Desire Z yesterday and to be honest, I don't see a problem here. Its seems to be the design of the unit.

The Hinge.. Mine seems fairly stiff, the screen doesn't rock much when closed / open and besides, it only does when open if i press the top of the screen hard. When closed, its solid. It open and closes with a nice solid snap.

Holding the phone upside down.. I never did this on my Touch Pro 2 and i'm likely not to do it with the Z. While it does drop when I try it, my fingers prevent it from closing.

Holding from the screen.. This is probably the best way to kill your phone. It does drop as described by others but again, I never did it with my Touch Pro 2 and I wont be with the Z. I value the longevity of the hinges and will be handling the phone like any other phone, not by the screen!

I've just bought a nice fabric pouch for it to protect it and keep to parts together safely when out n about.

I'm rather happy with it.. :)

Regards

Craig
[G2 and Desire Z General] ayewhy:
Look for my thread about how I tested two Desire Z's in store before buying the good one! I hate buying phones online knowing the risk that when it arrives it could have a physical faulty/issue and the annoying process of sending it back + waiting for a replacement -- which AGAIN could have issues! :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] Untouchab1e:
Im certainly concerned whether or not the hinge mechanism will degrade over time, but Im more worried about the video cable that connects the screen to the rest of the phone. Is it actually exposed while the device is flipped open, or is it just visible while sliding the keyboard out?
[G2 and Desire Z General] vinokirk:
It is actually visable and exposed. I also have reservations about whether the ribbon cable will last longer than a year.
[G2 and Desire Z General] craiglay:
Yes, we'll have to see how stiff it is in a years time..

No, the ribbon is not exposed when the keyboard is open or closed. Just when sliding

Craig
[G2 and Desire Z General] Untouchab1e:
Right, thats what I hoped! Guess only time will tell how it holds up!
[G2 and Desire Z General] elisir79:
And this is mine..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJWQxKiEZPo

Serial Number 99HL..

Bought from Expansys, is EU version
[G2 and Desire Z General] mahender:
i cant see what the issue is. i guess time will tell. but even in your picture your fingertips are hanging over the edge of the screen.

so if you were to pick it up normally you would be holding both parts.

it is after all two fairly heavy bits being held together by hinges.

mine is loose and does the same when held like that. but it isnt natural.

i tried to show my friend what the issue is and nearly dropped my phone trying to hold it that way.

regards
[G2 and Desire Z General] hrcro:
Is it possibile that device (with very loose hinge) opens itself in pocket? Is hinge "real" problem in everyday use or does it just looks bad and annoying for some people?

Thanks.
[G2 and Desire Z General] andrewilley:
Personally I'm now coming to the conclusion that in general use the hinge problem is not an issue, it only looks bad "in theory". I suspect that if the hinge was made stiff enough to hold the keyboard/base tightly to the phone when lifted by the screeen edge, it would then be too stiff in normal use.

Andre
[G2 and Desire Z General] toosas:
hrcro did you actually read the thread?

Every time HTC releases a new keyboard phone the complaints roll out. Just remember all the Touch Pro2 threads. I still got it and the hinge is absolutely fine on it, no looser than on day one after a year of daily use.

I think this is why we're seeing so few keyboard phones, the manufacturers are petrified :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] hrcro:
Offcourse that I read the thread. Not only the thread I also watched many videos etc. But there are so many different opinions, that I dont know what to think. So I wanted to know are there problems in common, everyday use. Everybody talks about loose hinge in unrealistic situation. I want to know how it behaves in day to day use.

And yes; I also remember how people whined about every unimportant detail of various phones in previous years.

Just wanted verification of owners that it is ok in everyday usage.
[G2 and Desire Z General] mahender:
agree. i have still got my raphael ( touch pro) and the keyboard is sweeet still.

is there really a problem?

what are peoples expectations of the operation?
[G2 and Desire Z General] toosas:
Quite recently I was where you are now. If you have a chance just go into a shop and look at a real model (not the mockup phone on display). Once I had it in my hand and tried it I instantly knew whether it was a problem (from my point of view). Your own opinion is better than a hundred reviews by others :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] mahender:
i find no problem in day to day use so far. it has never slid open in any pocket or fell open when i have picked it up. it opens when i want it too and closes when i close it.

i think i operate 50/50 on screen keyboard and hardware keyboard.

i have had my phone over a week now. and the only time it has ever been an issue is when i hold it in the way that is shown on the videos. which i never ever do or have done apart from reproduction of the problem to show friends.
[G2 and Desire Z General] t-mon:
Yeah mine is about the same. Had the time to play around with it for a couple of hours now and so far it's not been an issue in normal use.
[G2 and Desire Z General] toosas:
here, have a look at this, action starts at ~2:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiVzUEzXF9Y

Horrific, I'd never do that to my phone, but just so you can see what can the hinge withstand..

Thank you, anonymous internet testers :D
[G2 and Desire Z General] ayewhy:
lol me too would never do that to mine... but if the kids ever get a hold of it, at least I know it's likely to survive :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] john boot:
:eek:wowzers
[G2 and Desire Z General] pizza65:
Just wanted to add my voice to those saying "yes, my phone opens if you hold it by the screen, no, its not a problem". If I have the phone closed it does not open at all, if I am typing with it open it doesn't shut. Sure, if I pinch the edges of the screen I can make it hang open, but why would I do that?

This is not "you're holding it wrong" either, the hinge only disappoints if you hold the phone in such a way as to make it unusable. It's like suspending a car by its door and watching the hinge sag, then assuming this means that the doors don't work.

/rant
[G2 and Desire Z General] Careless_:
pardon me for making this my first post.

I just returned two of these phones

1) a crack on the LCD screen under the glass. checked with a loupe. right next to a stuck pixel too. and right on the black bar at the top of the screen- total annoyance. unacceptable.

2) hinge on the replacement was sloppy. hinge on the one with the cracked screen was not even a thought. I didn't notice the issue.

For anyone that is not at least acknowledging that maybe SOME users (read: not yourself) have a hinge problem associated with their phone, I'll just put a thought out there:

Has your sleep ever been interrupted by a text-message, to which you reply with your DZ/G2 with the back of the phone facing the ceiling of your room? Or have you ever been sprawled out on the couch on a lazy sunday afternoon holding the phone at a slight angle facing downwards... maybe 80 degrees? not quite 90?

Does the screen fall? It shouldn't.

Why should I need to hold the phone how HTC envisions people holding a two-handed device- in a "texting while driving" or "faceplanting this telephone pole because I'm occupied" kind of way? Is there a guideline to what angles one should operate the phone at? Because my Samsung Rant that I was hoping to upgrade from has no gravity issues (no pun intended) with the slide out keyboard. It's stiff and takes some push to slide it out, and that's the way it should be.

I ask that before you call people out for "nit-picking" at things like this, that you take into consideration that the phones on display do NOT suffer from this problem. You can grab it from the cord attached to the back, or even use the weight that the cord adds as leverage to try and drop the phone hinge down. At the store I purchased it from, it did not even budge.

The phone I was sold the second time around was SO bad that I could not even think about putting it on a phone stand of any sort with the keyboard open for say... watching a video or something with the phone opened. If a 600 dollar phone touted for it's ingenuity in how it opens mechanically cannot even hold itself open properly: PROBLEM.

In the store while showing the sales rep the issue, a random customer waiting in line said "That's a janky phone". I didn't have to explain myself any further. It was refunded at that point.

Comparing a phone that some people have an issue with and some people seem to have lucked out on (I guess I'm 50/50 draw here) to something absurd like hanging a car by it's door and saying the door doesn't work is just a moot point. The phone is DESIGNED to open in the direction it flops down inadvertently . It's almost as if the "car door" doesn't close. That would be a much better comparison.

People complaining about a loose hinge are NOT turning the hinge open in an axially incorrect direction or "lifting heavy objects" by their hinge. There is an obvious spring-loading or magnetic clasping issue to be addressed.

/end rant.

hope some of you see what I'm saying. Hold it another way is too "Steve Jobs" for me. Had that been the agreement when signing the dotted line for the phone, I would have just bought a Jobs approved device.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Pickx:
Look, there certainly is a problem. What the people here are saying, in a nutshell, is:

1) HTC is not acknowledging this problem, and as such, there are no magical 'fixed shipments' in the wild. Therefore, the chance of getting better hinges by exchanging are low, unless you got a unit with particularly bad hinges

2) These people found that in THEIR day-to-day use, this problem does not inhibit them in any way

and 3) It is pointless to keep exchanging phones or "*****ing" (rightfully!) about your cellphone at the moment, due to the above points

Every phone is a compromise. People who require keyboards in their phones usually make more compromises than others. If at some point, HTC makes new shipments with better hinges, I'm going to go ahead and get an exchange. If not... oh well, I guess my next phone won't be an HTC. But it just isn't worth spending any more of your precious time over.
[G2 and Desire Z General] pizza65:
@Careless

Okay, but it seems you're initially talking about a different problem. If the screen flops open during normal use, it's defective, just as your phone with the damaged screen was. A defect like that is different from all desire z hinges being flawed, however.

If you get a broken hinge, fair enough. My rant was directed at people testing their phone like in the YouTube clip at the beginning of the thread- if you are holding the phone like that, you cannot use it in any way. This is not like the death grip at all. (The hinge in that video may well be broken also, which would be a legit concern, but the behaviour shown is irrelevant to actual usage)

I will admit though that testing upside down could be a concern. Personally I'd never do it but if you do, maybe its the wrong phone for you. Equally if you like taking photos in portrait, the shutter button is awkward, just depends what matters to you. For what its worth I'm typing this with the phone above me and leaning forward a bit, too much lean and it does close. Since you might not expect this unless you try before you buy it, its important to know.

Really though, if your hinge isn't actually damaged, it's not going to change. Any design alteration to fix the texting-upside-down thing would make it harder to open, which HTC will not do. So if that's a problem for you, get another phone. Email HTC and let them know that they overlooked something in testing that matters to you. They want sales, after all.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Roachie:
my hinge is a little loose, if i keep it like this \ it will fall down, but thats just gravity doing its work.. if it didnt close like that it would be really tight and youd need allot of force to open or close it..

also when open my screen on the rightside wobbles a little bit but its not a big problem since hwne open you wont touch that or notice it while typing..

people with problems like mine and complain should just get another phone, things like this happen when you have 2 separate things put together with a few Z hinges.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Careless_:
This is where you are blatantly wrong because there ARE phones that you can text upside down/laying down on bed/couch with.

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=YUf8sKPUz48&feature=related

When you guys looked at the display models and realized they snapped into place and didn't move at all, did you feel that it was TOO HARD to push it? that's redonkulous.

I have had more than 1 qwerty phone. I still have a UTStarcom that has a strong sliding mechanism and I never once complained about it requiring a little bit of a push to open it. But if the screen kept falling on your thumbs while you were typing, wouldn't that be an issue.

In the video you see that I posted... the reviewer makes mention that "if you're typing like this your thumbs are going to be holding up the screen anyway". again. WRONG. how can people be so short-sighted? he's holding the phone IN HIS HAND, UPSIDE DOWN, and he's saying that while typing, your thumbs are holding the screen?

No. that's just friggen stupid. I'm sorry. He doesn't see the issue because HE HAS a working hinge.
[G2 and Desire Z General] hrcro:
In this video it is explained how the hinge works. It answers on all of my questions.
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
Lets keep things positive guys. :)

Don't want this turning into a flame war...I may have to crack the whip ;)