yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Focus General] whemmingway:
Sandisk 16GB Class 2 - random reboot

I am using the Sandisk 16GB Class 2. I have recently been experiencing random reboots, sometimes to a reset scenario that requires me to force a shutdown then reboot to restore my original settings and memory. Seems most of the time the reboot causes the phone to start as if no SD card is installed and the phone is in its original state requiring set-up. The forced manual shut down and reboot recovers all of my original states.

Letely, these random reboots are occuring more often. Not sure why, but it has become annoying. Would be good to finally know what memory card will actually work correctly and remain stable.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

After re-reading the Power-re;ated post - I would have to agree that my random reboots seem to occur when the battery is in a low status. I would agree that the WP7 settings for support on an extra SD is a problem and that they will need to refresh their low power setting approach to allow an extended memory via SD to remain stable when the battery power becomes low. This should be fairly straight forward for MS to achieve.
[Focus General] hyperzulu:
I still think the best thing to do is buy a card at Fry's (good return/exchange policy) and test it in Vista/Windows 7 for ReadyBoost. If it passes that test (as it tests random access speed for compatability), it should work pretty well.

I posted my results throughout this thread and the two cards I've used, one did not pass ReadyBoost and it froze the phone all the time to where it was really annoying. The other card I still have in there and I notice a hiccup here and there, but it's so minor and far between occurrences that I don't find it an inconvenience. I'm talking about opening the e-mail app sometimes prompts "Loading" for a few seconds, where it's usually opened immediately. I do keep a lot of synced e-mails with attachments downloaded.

I would say that a batch of cards will yield different results based on how well baked they came out of the oven. Buy a card from a reputable vendor, test it in ReadyBoost and then on your phone. If it doesn't pass ReadyBoost, take it back and say it didn't work for its intended purpose and see if another does. If that's too daunting, lo siento.
[Focus General] FL5:
Fedex tells me that I'll have my Focus in 2 days. I came to this thread to figure out which card I needed to get for it. However, after reading this thing, it seems that the big test data that is missing is a good test of when and what causes the device to crash/reboot without a card in it. Seems to be a consensus that the marketplace will lock it up. Anyone else know whether any of the other hiccups are really because of the cards and not just little bugs in the version 1.0 software? I figure I'm gonna have to run the thing cardless for a bit just so I'll have an honest base for comparison. If anyone ends up having to pull a card, do me a favor and try running it cardless for a bit and post your results. I'll do the same.
[Focus General] KoshKosh:
I did that for two weeks before I installed the card.

major diff after installing the card was when the 8gb internal is used up and Zune synch starts hitting the micro sd there is a significant slow down in transfer time.

Marketplace had inconsistent performance without the card, and only showed a slight slow down after the card. I find that the unresponsiveness had more to do with the internet connection than the sd card.

Hope that answers some of your questions.
[Focus General] FL5:
If sync sluggishness is really the only card-related issue aside from cards that were crappy in the first place, then that does encourage me to go ahead and take the plunge when my shiny new toy comes in tomorrow.

I figure my first sacrifice to the Focus will be the cannibalized Sandisk 16 c2 from my soon-to-be retired Tilt2. It doesn't pass readyboost, but otherwise seems to perform well enough. If that doesn't end up working happily, I've got a similar 8 gigger on the way just in case. Here's hoping, eh?
[Focus General] KoshKosh:
The Sandisk 16GB class 2 has had mixed results according to the reports on this thread. I have a Class 4 and can only vouch for that one.
[Focus General] tripntx:
Into my fourth full day of using Patriot 16gb mSD, have had no problems. I do not load music, just surf facebook and forums a lot. I have turned off my phone at least twice a day to see if it develops any problems, but it keeps working great.
[Focus General] jeffgeno:
Problems won't show up until you load it up with more than 8GB of stuff. The cards aren't used until then.

I've been running my 8GB SanDisk for a few weeks now without a single random reboot. There are rare lags here and there, but nothing worth noting except one. When I filled the device to capacity, even leaving 15% reserved, it got really slow in Bing Maps. I think the Zune loading area is shared with the OS as swap space. Once I removed some more stuff and left a gig or so free, it picked right back up.
[Focus General] Doinshots:
Just wanted to post that I have a Samsung Focus and installed my Sandisk 8GB Class 4 and data held after soft reset. I will follow up if I have any issues.
[Focus General] JETninja:
I'm about to pull the plug on two Focus's for the Wife and I, coming back to this thread has not made me feel warm and fuzzy for sure. Saw a rumor that the first MS upgrade is going to be a big one, maybe something in it will help this issue with cards.

It would be nice to if those with issues, go plug your device in and does it still have issues when its no longer running on the battery? Lets get more real data....
[Focus General] clmbngbkng:
I think all of us would love for the first update to expand the range of cards that can be used well. I know it would be great to include some 32gb cards.
[Focus General] pdagal:
I've been using a 16 gig Sandisk class 2 card since November 8 in my Focus and haven't had a single problem. No hangs, no lags or errors and the device's combined storage is 3/4 full so the card is being used.
[Focus General] konkie:
*edit* After browsing the surround section. I found this was already posted there. So I'll leave it up to a mod to decide if this post stays or the surround section post should be x-ref here.

Has this already been discussed yet?

"Interestingly, the card in the HTC Surround is just a class 4 16 GB SanDisk."

Sorry, As a newb I'm not able to post links.

dub dub dub dot anandtech dot com/show/4015/htc-surround-review-pocket-boombox/8
[Focus General] ajftl:
been using a patriot signature line 8gb C4 since last sunday so far no problems
[Focus General] JETninja:
Question, just ordered two Focus's, do they use SD or Micro SD?
[Focus General] wsantiagow:
Micro SDs is what they use...:D
[Focus General] JETninja:
Yeah, I googled and found out the answer, stopped by Frys today and got a 16GB Patriot C2 (last one, was a display) for mine, 8Gb PNY (for Polaroid) C4 for the Wifes.....Phones supposed to show Monday so I hope to get them all up and working that evening.
[Focus General] SuperSport:
My SanDisk 16GB Class 2 that came with my HD2 causes Data Loss and Reboots... Changed to an 8GB Class 4 and now seems ok...
[Focus General] blahism:
Can anyone confirm if removing the MicroSD "bricks" your phone? I had my wifes focus running with an 8gb card and one day it rebooted and didn't have any storage. I removed the card and tried to reset the phone but it perpetually only showed 15 mb free (rom space i'm guessing)

If the MicroSD has problems are you SOL? Can you replace the cards/swap them out and do a full reset between replacement?

I got a replacement phone and i want to use the space but i'm also curious of the old microsd is now locked to the old phone or if any windows mobile phone will be able to use it?
[Focus General] clarity1981:
Been using a Kingston 32gb Class 4. Loaded with 18gb of music and pictures. I'm having the slow sync issue when wired. However, when I do wireless sync, everything works great.
[Focus General] jeffgeno:
You have to do the VOL DOWN + CAMERA + POWER button hold while resetting it to get the formal memory menu. That should fix it up.
[Focus General] tuffluck:
any more stories on the microcenter card?

i live near a microcenter, for $25 this is probably the best deal on any of the listed working micro sd cards.

i can hold off getting a card, but does anyone know or have any solid guess if and when microsoft plans to publish a working card list? any chance it will be some of these cards you have on your list already?
[Focus General] hyperzulu:
I am running card-less again. With the 8gb card that was running pretty decently, today I pulled the phone out of my pocket mid day and noticed that my theme had reset, apps had reloaded... the phone reset itself. I was pretty dumbfounded. I decided if the phone is going to sporadically do this every few weeks, I couldn't handle it. Maybe if WP7 had a full backup feature where I could just go back to last night's backup, but I'll just have to hope MS fixes this issue, as really this is a really expensive phone to be tied to only 8gb. Most (all?) phones at this price have at least 16gb of storage and/or a useable SD card solution.
[Focus General] daniel_leavitt2000:
Kingston 16GB C4 card

I had purchased the Kingston 16GB C4 card from Buy.com about a week prior to getting my Focus on Nov 8th. Obviously no one knew about the issues surrounding the Micro SD cards at the time, but I figured a C4 card from a name brand was probably going to be least problematic. I purchased through the Buy.com store and not one of their affiliated merchants after seeing an article about counterfeit cards being produced in China and causing all sorts of problems.

So far the card has worked very well. It’s not perfect, but it seems to be one of the least troublesome compared to the other stories here. Right now i have about 12.5GB free so I am a few GB into the SD card now. Here are some observations:

1. I installed the card, ran into that "Download Mode" pulled the battery and did a hard reset. After this the memory was recognized. I never did "format" the card correctly.

2. I have experienced no reboots.

3. When syncing large amounts of data, the phone can become a bit slow. I usually do a soft reset after and everything works like it should.

4. After about 10GB, I ran into that wired sync problem where it takes several minutes to load a song. Wireless syncing does not seem to be affected and works well.

5. I have removed the battery and card while the phone is off without losing any data. The info on the card seems to be quite stable.

6. The phone seems to move around the data when idle and recharging. For example when I first broke the into the SD card memory, the phone would take a while to turn on, then after recharging for the night it boots just as fast as it did when I got it. Same thing goes for new apps. They load slow when purchased (and presumably loaded on the SD card), but after a few hours they load quickly. I am willing to bet the phone moves music/pictures/user files to the SD card and keep the system files on the internal memory, though I do not know exactly why they would do this is there wasn't any official support for expandable memory. Anyone have any ideas?

So in short, this card works. I'm still loading songs on it to test deeper into the SD memory, but as of right now we do seem to have a card that is stable.
[Focus General] hsolo:
Hmm, I have experienced the opposite. I have a Kingston 16GB Class 4 card. I have "Total Storage 22.12GB", and "Available Storage 6.18GB"

I have not experienced any reboots or resets, but when wirelessly syncing my phone, it now hangs showing 2% of new stuff sent to my phone on the Zune summary screen. Leaving it overnight, the following morning Zune did not appear to be open on the PC anymore. I started Zune again, but it said Zune was already running. Sure enough, the processes showed two Zune executables running. I rebooted the PC and had the same hang at 2% doing the wireless sync. Attached the phone to the PC via the micro USB cable and the new data was passed to the phone very quickly until completion.
[Focus General] SuperSport:
Anyone figured out another way to format the Card again using Windows? (No access to an N8 around here) I've ruined my HD2 16GB card. It was not stable in the phone, so I removed it, and now cannot use it in anything else... Should Samsung be responsible for these ruined cards, or is it our fault for trying them in the phone? :o

From the little sticker inside the phone, I didn't get that the card would be rendered useless, but rather it would be formatted for the phone. :(
[Focus General] TomH123:
How do you figure it's "runied"? It's taking advantage of the "secure" feature of the Secure Digital (SD) card. The card was designed to be used so that a device could lock the card to that device. If you put it back into that device it should work the same as it did before (for good or bad). We've just gotten used to devices that don't use the card the way it was designed.

So you did see the sticker inside the phone warning you not to put in a card that wasn't approved and you did it anyway? And Samsung should somehow be responsible?
[Focus General] FL5:
The sticker in mine only said to read the quick start guide before putting a card in. The quick start guide says how to stick a card in and format. The instructions do state that any card inserted should be considered part of the phone from then on, but does not explicitly state that cards will be rendered unrecoverable.

But then, that's taking the instructions and making a very stretched interpretation of them. We all know better and have been screwing around anyway. You may hear some grumbling from me over lost time from reformats or resyncs should any of mine end up failing, but you're not gonna hear me trying to pawn off my mistakes on others.

That being said, my Sandisk 16gb class 4 came in today! :D

I'm running read/write tests on it as I type. Hopefully it'll end up adequate.
[Focus General] SuperSport:
Ehem...

Ok, let me clarify. The little sticker said NOTHING about using an APPROVED card. It says, and I QUOTE:

"STOP! Read Quickstart first before using the memory card".

So, I go to the Quickstart guide and I QUOTE:

"Insert memory card (not included)

Turn off the phone and insert your memory card as shown below.

Press Volume Control Down + Camera key + Power key to format the phone and initialize the memory card.

Warning: Do not remove the memory card once it is inserted because it is integrated with the phone's memory and will cause the phone to be inoperable."

Please show me where that says ANYTHING about using an "Approved" card, and please show me where my dead SD Card is MY fault.

If companies where allowed to function as you state, then there would be many accidents on the road due to Anti Lock brakes not working due to the Wrong Shoes being worn. Yes, you can buy new shoes that are compatible, but your car is already ruined.

I only came here AFTER the card Locked Up/Hard Booted my phone multiple times and then I realized it "RUINED" my HD2's SD Card for use in any device, including THIS device. Doesn't it seem that if it worked the way the advertising stated it would, my card would not be "ruined", but since it made the phone not work, and in return, the SD Card not work, I believe it Did in Fact RUIN my SD Card. And yes, after reading back through all the Material I have with the phone, I DO believe Samsung is responsible...

I'm not trying to be an ass, but now I don't have any card for my HD2 either, and it was NOT my fault. It was faulty instructions that came with my Phone that never mentions you have to buy a Specific SD Card to be able to use the SD Card slot.

As a consumer, I don't believe I should be forced to come to XDA to find out the SD Card Slot is only compatible with a handful of SD Cards. It should be in the Very Least, in the Printed Material that comes with the phone...

PS: This is the first and ONLY time I've actually read the Quickstart Guide for any phone before powering it on. I read it due to the little sticker on the SD Slot. If it mentioned anything about confirming compatibility, I would definitely have gone to the net to verify so I didn't end up with a dead SD Card. I've got a LOT of experience with Cell Phones, so this isn't my first dive into this. My first phone was the Motorola Bag Phone when they first came out, ($1500/Mo phone bills... :eek:), and I've had probably a hundred different phones since.
[Focus General] cyberdim:
Did you try "Diskpart"? I had no problem removing the card from focus and repartitioning through diskpart -> list disk - > clean , etc...
[Focus General] SuperSport:
As per your suggestion, I did just try DiskPart. Unfortunately, it does not see the card at all. Someone earlier mentioned that the PC Hardware will no longer see the card, but I was hoping there would be some magic software that could do it. Thank you for the suggestion.

Also, I want to apologize for my earlier post. It's physically been a rough week, and I am frustrated, but not at anyone on this site. If you read through my many posts and threads, you will find I REALLY like to get along. Sorry TomH123 that I sounded snippy, it was not supposed to be aimed at you.

I will follow up with Samsung in the morning and see what can be done to remedy the situation. If nothing can be done, then I have the right to send the phone back within 30 days, and I will not be unhappy with Samsung in any way. This is just a reality of early adopting of new devices. It is still having lagging problems even with my Sandisk 8GB class 2 card installed, so I'm thinking there are other issues that need to be addressed.

Anyone looking to trade for a 3 day old Samsung Focus? :rolleyes: iPhone 4 or HD2 t9193, or any other ATT 3G Compatible 4"+ Smartphone?
[Focus General] FL5:
Can you tell that I'm an auditor?

OK, using the CrystalDiskMark software, I tested two Sandisk 16 gig cards. One is the old class 2 card that I had been using in my Tilt2 for the past 3 months, the other is a class 4 from eBay that arrived today.

For the tests, the cards were both formatted to FAT32 using whatever crappy format tool is already present inside windows XP, and run in the same USB microSD adapter.

The tests performed were the standard settings when I first installed the program. I don't know what they really mean, other than that WP7 supposedly stresses the importance of random read/write. The two 4k numbers are for Queue Depth of 1 and 32, respectively. No, I do not know what that means, or if it is even relevant to WP7.

I ran the test three times on each card, 5 passes on each test, testing 1000MB of data, and then averaged the totals. Here are the numbers (measure is in MB/sec):

Class 2

:

Sequential read: 7.729, 8.014, 7.131: Average: 7.625

Sequential write: 4.867, 4.748, 4.915: Average: 4.843

512k random read: 7.185, 7.074, 7.144: Average: 7.134

512k random write: 3.251, 2.905, 3.657: Average: 3.271

4k random read: 0.934, 0.799, 0.662: Average: 0.798

4k random write: 0.462, 0.387, 0.462: Average: 0.437

4kQ32 random read: 0.733, 0.733, 0.729: Average: 0.732

4kQ32 random write: 0.135, 0.127, 0.117: Average: 0.126

Class 4

:

Sequential read: 6.374, 6.329, 6.339: Average: 6.347

Sequential write: 4.640, 4.598, 4.603: Average: 4.614

512k random read: 6.447, 6.006, 6.485: Average: 6.313

512k random write: 3.511, 2.911, 3.362: Average: 3.261

4k random read: 0.825, 0.778, 0.885: Average: 0.829

4k random write: 0.505, 0.491, 0.464: Average: 0.487

4kQ32 random read: 0.726, 0.705, 0.726: Average: 0.719

4kQ32 random write: 0.122, 0.122, 0.127: Average: 0.124

The results are that, materially, they are the same thing, and there is no real difference in performance between the two. My guess is that I just got lucky with my class 2 card, and got one out of a really good batch, as it actually meets class 4 requirements. We need the guys that had problems with the class 2 cards to find friends with Nokias (:rolleyes:) and test those cards to see if they might have been from older, less capable stock.

I'm gonna go ahead and stuff the class 4 into my Focus, cuz it's newer, and I got it just for that. I'll be back to gripe if it doesn't work out.

Note: I also tested a Sandisk 4GBc2 and 8GBc2 that I had laying around. However, the random write speeds were horrendous, and I dismissed them outright for Focus usage. Could be I just got some mediocre ones. Oh well.
[Focus General] vedichymn:
Ha. I've got 16 GB Sandisk Class 2 that causes reboots/resets, but sadly don't know anyone with a Nokia. :(
[Focus General] mesonto:
Kingston 16GB Class 4

Just bought, installed and formatted my Kingston 16GB Class 4 memory card in my Samsung focus. So far everything is working well. I will post again if something goes horribly wrong. (I hope everything stays normal)

But now with all this memory it is going to take a while for me to fill it up. Hooray!
[Focus General] rhart20:
I think we rely too much on "I"ll figure it out on the fly". Don't get me wrong, I do this too. However, the owner's manual clearly states on pages 10-14 the issues you may have without using an "Approved" card. It even states the Sandisk 8gb class 2 is approved. Granted they should have sent you to the owner's manual instead of the quickstart but they do have this documented.
[Focus General] JETninja:
Wife's and my Focus's arrived yesterday, put the PNY 8Gb C4 in her's, Patriot 16Gb C2 in mine, formatted, all is good so far.....
[Focus General] steeldragonnyc:
working

I just got my 32gb c2 sandisk and so far so good....
[Focus General] SuperSport:
Where is the Owner's Manual? Is it online?

EDIT: Just downloaded it. Again, I think it's strange it was never mentioned in the package I received when I purchased it. Does not seem like trial and error when I followed the instructions that came with the phone. But, like I said I'm taking it up with Samsung. Thank you for your opinions on the matter, I don't like to be blind to my own way of thinking without other's opinions.
[Focus General] vedichymn:
It took a couple weeks for my 16 GB Class 2 Sandisk to start noticably causing issues, hopefully things go well for you.
[Focus General] Wp7Hkr:
the Scandisk 32gb class 2 which I bought on amazon for $80.
[Focus General] FishFaceMcGee:
What about it? It's Sandisk, by the way.
[Focus General] FL5:
Run CrystalDiskMark on that bad boy and post your numbers! We need to see the measured random read/write speeds on these cards to start understanding the Focus's threshold for acceptability.

BTW, at the ATT store by my office, they have the Sandisk 32c2 cards hung up right next to the display model for the Focus. Literally, within 4 inches. When asked about compatibility, the staff really had no clue. >_<
[Focus General] WinP7:
Just wanted to confirm - I'm using the Kingston 16GB Class 4. Working OK through several hard resets.
[Focus General] ksaunder:
Sandisk 16GB class 2

Sandisk class 2 16GB card worked for a day or two after going over 8 GB, then the Focus has started restarting randomly.

Does anybody know if i can remove the card from my focus and just return to the original 8 GB?
[Focus General] vedichymn:
When you remove the card you'll need to wipe your phone and start fresh, but yeah, should work fine after that, I went through the exact same situation.
[Focus General] SuperSport:
Yes, you can. Just do the Hard Reset Procedure to the Phone when you start it again. Remember, the 16GB is now a Little Teeny Light Weight Brick. :( Also, this will reset all the info on your Phone, but likely, that's already happened.

Update, worked out something with Samsung... :D After it's complete, I'll post results.