yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S I9000 General] johcos:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.

I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).

I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.

Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456

Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122

I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)

Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
[Galaxy S I9000 General] hol17:
http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/

Now stop making topics like this.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] allotrios:
the difference you notice is software related
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xan:
Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:

SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process

source: wiki

This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] jimmy-bish:
I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.

Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] stephengoo:
As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] dk206:
i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol

jealousy maybe :P just a troll, ignore
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Darkimmortal:
In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Schmich:
Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?

"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
[Galaxy S I9000 General] johcos:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.

I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)

This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?

I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).

The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)

The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] ll_l_x_l_ll:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.

to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.

but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.

even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58

my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.

just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.

the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.

hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.

device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "

i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.

i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
[Galaxy S I9000 General] ll_l_x_l_ll:
this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell

smooth as butter on my galaxy s

to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
[Galaxy S I9000 General] t1mman:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?

It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!

stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Tessier:
Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):

integer: 20661/27624

float: 11173/7968

I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).

Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...
[Galaxy S I9000 General] spyrale:
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that :) i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time :)

i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 :) i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope :)
[Galaxy S I9000 General] almaalma74:
...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo
[Galaxy S I9000 General] cantIntoCode:
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
Pfft in a hostel in japan I was comparing my sgs (eclair) to a froyo desire. The desire is slower at scrolling menu's, homescreens, web browsing, basically everything.

The screen is dull in comparison also.

The only benefit the desire has is that it doesn't suffer from the occasional black screen lag when opening apps. And this is 80% fixed by the community.

Yeah we do get that little bit of lag, but I dont know why everyone complains so much
[Galaxy S I9000 General] ll_l_x_l_ll:
Not to sound rude but we are talkibg about desire hd. Dont bring that old desire crap here lol
[Galaxy S I9000 General] INeedYourHelp:
not to sound rude, but actually, the OP was comparing the HD2 (NOT the DHD) to the SGS. The old desire has the same cpu as the HD2, so his post is valid to this thread.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] belayson:
lol where did you get the desire hd from? lol Trying to correct someone with nonsense.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] EarlZ:
If Humming bird was also optimized for Linkpak and Quadrant, Im guessing they would score over 3x compared to the SnapD
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
I hope you understand yourself what you are writing.

It has little to do what we are talking about here.

You did basicly say they are same for they use same instructionset.

You forget that sgs has a gpu on the side.

Sent from GT-I9000 Jpm OS kernel with z4mod
[Galaxy S I9000 General] INeedYourHelp:
um, he specifically mention the gpu of the SGS, unless you were referring to something else.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] tony604:
Thanks, I think I understand quite well what I wrote. I am only trying to share information here.

For your information, the Cortex A9 is also based on the ARMv7 instruction set. I am pretty sure the A9 will blow the A8 or any variant out of the water. The future scorpion cores will either go muti-core like the A9, or they may opt for to keep it single core with a higher clock rate (I've heard something about a 2Ghz chip in the near future).

I am by no means an expert in micro chip architecture, but designing a chip around a specific instruction set, ie ARMv7 means your chip will work with software that is specifically coded to work with that particular architecture like Android. You can extend that instruction set (like what Qualcomm probably did with the Scorpion core) to give it better performance in certain areas. Then you would need the software to make use of those extended instructions to gain any benefit.

This does NOT mean every chip built around the ARMv7 instruction set will preform the same.

Edit: What I'm trying to get across is this.

People commonly think the "Snapdragon" or "Hummingbird" are the "CPU". These SoC chips are actually self contained computers. The "CPU" in these chips are the Scorpion and A8 respectively. When comparing SoC chips, it's more accurate to compare the different internal components of these SoC chips. SoC chips can vary a lot based on what is actually in them. For example, the Galaxy S has a baseband processor seperate from the Hummingbird application processor, where the Snapdragon application processor has the baseband processor embedded in the SoC
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Well its not on the same chip. thats what i mean.

You got alot more power in that chip.

If you dont use is in the benchmark program and compare it with an other chip that all know this benchmark program is made for you will get wierd results.

And then telling people that "snapdragon" has more preformans is just funny.

I did enjoy to read about it but the talk of other and future chips is not the subject here.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] zeco:
Are you sure the scorpion is still necessarily faster than the Samsung implementation of the Cortex A8? I had read Samsung hired a company named Intrinsity to tweak the Cortex A8 of the hummingbird to do certain things more efficiently (operate certain functions with less instructions I think they said).

So the way I see it is, the hummingbird's Cortex A8 is better at somethings, and the Scorpion is better at others.

I have found no irrefutable proof that one is objectively better than the other.

I will try to find the article that I read,
[Galaxy S I9000 General] tony604:
You're right. I did read a big long article about the Intrinsity tweaks. So to answer your question, I'm not sure the Intrinsity tweaked A8 is faster. I think the article said the Intrinsity A8 was on par with the scorpion core. I don't remember reading exactly what was said in that regard. I will have to try finding that article again. I do remember it was an article I started reading when I found out Apple had bought Intrinsity
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
You need to remember that eclair vs eclair the hummingbird beat the snapdragon in cpu by ~20%

Its only froyo that changed the game
[Galaxy S I9000 General] zorxd:
I think the scorpion is supposed to have a better FPU. For integers (what matters the most usually), I think that the hummingbird is faster.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] andrewluecke:
The term "CPU" in current Android benchmarks is deceptive because the benchmarks are Dalvik bytecode (similar to Java), NOT native code, and are highly influenced by the virtual machine's optimisations. It should be termed "Virtual Machine speed", NOT CPU.

Also, benchmarks are mostly useless because they generally only test certain instructions, and use test unrealistic workloads. For a similar example, think about human fitness. It is possible for someone to be able to lift huge weights, but be unable to jog very far. It's also possible for different benchmarks to "win" on different devices. But just because one does win, doesn't mean that the device is faster for the tasks which you perform.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
Once more apps start using native code and hardware acceleration the cpu floating point unit will become irrelevant. That is a task given to the gpu which is tens of times faster
[Galaxy S I9000 General] tony604:
I haven't been able to find any hard numbers that compare the different A8 implimentations, but I did find this one article which I found really interesting. Also, the 3rd generation snapdragon currently available as samples to manufacture is dual core 1.5Ghz. The Desire HD uses 2nd gen snapdragon.

Here's the articke for anyone who may be interested

http://www.rcrwireless.com/article/...qualcomm-snapdragon-platform-and-its-dramatic
[Galaxy S I9000 General] alumine:
One minor detail: ThumbEE (formerly Jazelle). This should accelerate Dalvik generated instructions closer to machine speed.

Well technically, it IS on the same chip. The GPU is on one monolithic piece of silicon. It's a SoC afterall :)
[Galaxy S I9000 General] ludovicianul:
People, Hummingbird is the best processor on market. HTC users should get used to it, for the moment.

"The Samsung Galaxy S with a 45 nm Hummingbird beating for a heart looks to be the most powerful ARM SoC available in the near future, however, the 45 nm Snapdragons and the Cortex-A9 TI OMAP 4 series will almost certainly reclaim that title later this year and onwards into 2011. The EVO 4G, while having an impressive set of specifications, still runs a 65 nm chip that is less power efficient and pales in terms of graphics performance when compared to the Galaxy S. If you happen to live under Sprint’s WiMAX umbrella and can’t resist a 4.3-inch screen, the EVO 4G may be a hard opportunity to resist. But if you’re looking for the better performer and display with unsurpassed quality, a Samsung Galaxy S looks like the choice to make assuming it lands on a carrier that works for you. AT&T is likely, signs point to T-Mobile as well, and it’s speculated that it’ll eventually end up on all 4 major US carriers. Both phones are headed our way in “Summer 2010”. One thing is certain; it’s not going to be an easy wait!"

Source: http: / / alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=17125
[Galaxy S I9000 General] tameracingdriver:
You can go on all day about how fast hummingbird is compared to snapdragon but in the real world in means nowt. My n1 has so far run every game I've tried just as fast (actually a little quicker) and the only time I've witnessed a difference is in the quadrant 3d benchmark. But the issue is this, what is the point in having this "amazing" hardware if none of the software is written to take advantage? Most android phones are snapdragons at this time and as such software for the foreseeable future will be written mostly with these in mind.

As for the comments about smooth scrolling, how many are comparing the desire stock launcher with launcher pro on the sgs? I've got launcher pro on my n1 and I see very little difference in the scrolling performance.

And the unfortunate fact is, the likes of the n1 and desire are clearly quicker in day to day use than even a lag fixed device.

It's sad to say but the ONLY thing I miss about the sgs is the screen. I certainly don't miss the poor performance, reliability, lackluster camera, subpar sound quality etc etc. I just felt I had to reply as its clear quite a few of you have your heads in the sand. Whatever superiority it might have on paper doesn't mean Jack in the real world.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DSF:
tameracingdriver what games did you actually tested? you're funny.. for example, try toon warz, quake 2, quake 3. those games are running flawlessly on galaxy s.

you're right about how is performing in some tasks, the stalls ruin the phone. With Froyo this is much worse on stock apps (swype, browser, launcher, etc). This is the major problem of the phone ..

and about the snapdragon, it's better in FPU operations..
[Galaxy S I9000 General] johcos:
I also believe that in real world the specs doesn't mean anything cause as I said before the HD2 is snappier and quicker in everyday use than the SGS.

The best answer to the thread's question (in my opinion) is the one that tony604 wrote as he describes all the details about the processors.

Another fact I believe is also correct is the one that tameracingdriver wrote:

Everyone has his own opinion in this and I respect all of them but my opinion/conclution after reading all your answers is that snapdragons are better processors than hummingbirds. Hummingbird as a SoC chip that it is the only thing better than snapdragon as a SoC is the GPU witch is corrected in the 2nd generation snapdragons.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Its funny. When people shall compare this two then it always snapdragon that is best. Always the gpu on sgs is counted out and you shall always use quadrant and linpack. The two program all know is flaw and don't use the gpu right on sgs. In games snapdragon is way behind and all other apps that use the gpu. Every day use is also something people like to talk about.

Well so long you dont use the phone to play games.

I got a challenge to you.

Find/make a benchmark program that use all thing in both snapdragon and hummingbird.

Show all test, not only the sum of all test.

Then we can compare them.

Sent from GT-I9000 Jpm OS kernel with z4mod
[Galaxy S I9000 General] vinclar:
One request can you try glbenchmark 1.1.6, the folowing tests wiht snapdragon and hummingbird?

-CPU: Float performance

-CPU: Integer perfomrance

And all other related to CPU tests diferent from linpack and quadrant, dont need to transcrive the results just take an screen shot, holding back and pushing home, then upload it.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
What's the point with that test?

It show nothing more then what snapdragon is better on. Fpu. ..

Sent from GT-I9000 Jpm OS kernel with z4mod
[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
As far as I am concerned this is a software problem, the iphone4 uses the hummingbird and look how damn smooth that is... It would be nice if we were supported by samsung better but I knew they sucked at software before I bought the phone
[Galaxy S I9000 General] sonci:
For God's sake why Samsung had this dream of building smartphones, they could just build amoled for Htc and Apple,

Im reading here about cpu Snapi and Hummy, in the old days it goes for intel orAmd

really where's intel??

In other words, I should have waited for the x2snapie

instead I bought the phone version of PSP, which is good only in gaming, and I spent 10 seconds to dial a phone number..
[Galaxy S I9000 General] tony604:
I think rather than spend the time and money developing Bada, if they had put that effort into Android, they could have had a really great Android implementation at this point.

Thats not to say they still can't do it but they're playing catch up to those that have been making Android handsets for a much longer time
[Galaxy S I9000 General] bcam117:
I have to agree with android53, its all in the software. I mean the iphone4 is really fast, although i can't say i have any real problems with lag, and i'm using the original firmware, just with voodoo and autokiller.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] t1mman:
You know where I could find an APK for GLBenchmark?

All I found was source code

You can see the N1 vs the SGS on GLBenchmark2.0 here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl4p5JI0-gQ&feature=related

We don't see people showing this around!

Furthermore, Neocore, wich is made by Qualcom (IE: Snapdragon makers) is faster on SGS also...
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Just follow the link a couple of post ago.

But you need to registry to use it.

Sent from GT-I9000 Jpm OS kernel with z4mod
[Galaxy S I9000 General] bilboa1:
with proper fixes the sgs is really really fast. I use the droid keyboard. ext4fs too and a couple of hi tweaks and kernel settings and I find it flies. the iphone4 isn't as snappy. and in games its a beast.

only the browser feels slow on certain pages somehow. fennec is a lot faster. eg on boston big picture.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] vinclar:
I got it uploaded to my wuala, here you have it. GLBenchmark 1.1.6 is the last avaiable.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] t1mman:
Thanks!

Well, since we have access to thoses, why don't we turn the table around and, instead of playing (and complaining) about Linpack/Quandrant combo, we should only accept GLBenchmark scores (and maybe accept Neocore, with the knowledge that it's made by Snapdragon's makers)
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
I tested neoscore.

Well sgs has a cap at 56fps so you can't get it higher that that.

So i dont see the point with this simple benchmark program.

Sent from GT-I9000 Jpm OS kernel with z4mod
[Galaxy S I9000 General] DamianGto:
Wow. I know sgs is fast in games but this is so funny to watch.

Poor N1.. lol

Well here you can see test on 4 phones.

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[Galaxy S I9000 General] android53:
Yeah the n1 gets destroyed by the sgs in glbench. You can see that in a non java app the snapdragon has a fair lead on floating operations, but the sgs beats it at integer.

Considering the only real use for floating point is video encoding and graphics rendering it isn't a very useful advantage when we have a gpu to do that