yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
dear friend this is a WP7 forum... and if you like/love android please do not visit WP7 forum....

day in and day out i see ppl from android forum coming over and running down WP7...

i am sorry but ppl alway talk about downfalls of things...
[Windows Phone 7 General] nrfitchett4:
Zune streaming is not available due to the outrageous fees some countries recording industries want MS to pay to have that right.

Only to select devices due to privacy concerns.

I think I have my new sig quote!!! :D

I don't know about linux, but my newly rebuilt desktop running xp sp3 boots in 45 seconds. (not overclocked, all hardware was new last year).
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
u cant tell ppl to buy what u like... if that was possible then there will be 1 car brand, 1 brand of clothes, food,.......

there will be ppl saying opp of u...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
It's a lot more accurate than using the stats of one website.

Linux (1.43%) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

"It doesn't give me any pleasure in saying this, but the evidence is overwhelming that Linux is not huge on the desktop. Saying it has maybe 1% of the desktop marketshare is probably not realistic, but not as far off the mark as we'd like.

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2010091001435OSMR

Linux' share of the desktop market grew to 1.13 percent, says Net Applications, making Linux the only OS to gain in May.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9682048723.html
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
As for the numbers on the linux desktop vs the rest, no account is given to the PC's that have been dual booted or bought as PC with Windows OS and the alternative OS was put on it, i.e me - bought a Dell laptop 2.5 years ago with Windows Vista pre-installed (no option given to choose an alternative OS at the checkout), the minute I had my laptop in my hands a Linux OS was installed on it. The same applies to my work PC that had Windows XP from the get go, and it was replaced with an alternative OS once in my hands.

Now it is running Ubuntu 10.10 which boots in 25 seconds.

Ok, I am done with off-topic here :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
Which is a moot point as those links aren't sales figures..
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Thanks or avoiding everything and talking about stupid stuff like taking Windows off a laptop to install Linux.

There are probably people tho take MacOSX off a Mac and put Windows on it, since the hardware is compatible, but who cares about that.

Linux has less marketshare than Windows 2000, and that's what matters. A company will support Windows 2000, which Windows 7 is largely backward compatible with (as long as they don't use APIs or frameworks which are tied to higher Windows Versions), before they support Linux.

Linux had opportunities to grab portions of the Desktop market, but they fumbled it. The same way they fumbled the Netbook market, which they could have easily owned.

The smartphone market is not as important to Microsoft. All they need is a decent smartphone platform and their product portfolio, services, and desktop marketshare will assure that platform is invincible to failure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] henrik.dk:
I cannot agree with you any more.

I will never buy M$ product.

They simply abandoned windows mobile users!

The only innovation they have made during the past is the honey comb start menu.

Regarding the update, I will just laugh. M$ will just abandon you if that is

what they think the best for them.

Not to mention OS is not free. Do you get free update from vista to windows 7?

This is simply a company which only knows COPY RIGHT.

Even my live messenger has the ad to eat up my screen.

I won't think M$ Greedy culture will be a success in the future.

I agree to the point that you buy the phone you want. If windows phone does what you want and you are not asking for any more, just go for it.

But if you are not 100% percent sure what you would like to have now or in the future, android is probably the choice. The community is sharing their knowledge, experience and solution for an open OS. You own the android phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Fragmentation is the reason why Android is winning and why it's so much better than anything else.

It's part of the plan.

It's called choice.

Choice leads to innovation.

Innovation leads to a great user experience.

That's why people prefer Android.

And the truth is, nobody is getting as many innovative updates as Android users.

MS is so slow, even if they push updates directly, they will never catch up.
[Windows Phone 7 General] henrik.dk:
I shares the same feeling. That is why I will not consider a side product.

The only reason that m$ os is dominant is the user habit.

if people get used to android in smartphone/android in tablet/chrome in netbook, why won't they consider chrome as the desktop os? Hence the erosion of m$ os market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ to be fair if it wasn't for OEMs screwing with WM then it would have died a long time ago.

Lets be honest the last real update to WM was 6.5.3, WM 6 and 6.1 was a dressed up WM 5. Biggest feature update threaded email and honeycomb...Wow! Can't forget the new lock screen.

Can't wait to see what the next 10 years brings from Microsoft...
[Windows Phone 7 General] henrik.dk:
I use google search everyday and I am very happy with the mode.

I use the free service and google gets money else where.

To me, it couldn't be better. If you don't think this is free, well, fine with me for you to pay M$ to collect money elsewhere.

Laugh. Linux is even originated from a student.

But I do agree windows phone may defeat android and iphone like internet explore got rid of netscape. What happens then with internet explore?
[Windows Phone 7 General] mmelo76:
Okay .... I cleaned up the other thread and the "dirt" may be starting to get here.

I do not clean and not closing this thread for now.

But be warned that the continuing Offtopic and rude messages with inappropriate words, I will close without notice.

I am watching this thread more.

So far the level is reasonable, but is borderline .... Let's keep it that way or improve, for not to start any flame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I think we should wait to judge finally.

Some say WP7 is a fail with so many lacks and may be right.

But no doubt the whole OS is a new thing with great look and proposed feature set.

It just doesn't do it perfectly yet and the other problem is - they don't sell it yet in many many countries. What can be a problem regarding the market development speed.

I must say I would love to use such a clean and unified UI, I don't like the fragmentation on Android. But to be far, I like WP7 tiles/hubs however I'm sure lack of changing background image on homescren and lack of ability to customize the whole homescreen - it would be another problem too.

That's why SE is not rushing to release WP7 phone. I would also like to feel the difference between HTC and LG....

I think we can say something more precise after first upgrade. I'm very curious what will that be.

New Androids are also coming.... Actually I depend on this my future choice, I have to leave WM at some point...
[Windows Phone 7 General] Krissrock:
Cannot be a fail after one month, and sold out in EU. Ppl are comparing a well establish OS to a one month old OS...The phone has yet to be available on some of the biggest carriers in the US.

I would say to ppl if you don't like what you see so far...then don't get it. Plain n simple. Check it out after your next contract is up. Everyone who likes wp7, likes it for their own reasons...and something as silly as not having a background image on the home screen isn't a deal breaker for them
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
For those who are doubting Microsoft's desire and willingness to commit to the mobile market all you can do is watch and learn. Here is some information from slyau90's WP7 update thread. This is a really good thread to watch. There is a lot going on in the background for this new OS. The leaks about the WP7 update state Microsoft will be doing in 1 update a few months after launch that Apple has taken 4 years to do on the Iphone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Think you guys should hit your edit buttons before sir mmelo76 comes around.

Lets stay peaceful
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
Like I said years ago when we were having the WM vs Iphone debate, being in the game for years can be a bigger detriment when technology is rapidly changing and you have a large business database to cater to and gigantic amounts of time & money invested into an architecture. Palm is nearly obsolete currently and MS is spending a lot of $ to reinvent it's mobile business while catching hell from loyal WM users.

-

Apple and Google had the benefit of great timing. I say Blackberry is the next to fall except in businesses needing ultra cryptic email services.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ Please don't get me started on OSX! I mean WTF, I have to install a application just to maximize a window!
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
I should have figured there was an app for that. That is one of the most annoying features on any operating system ever created (not being full screen standard or having an option for it).
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrew-in-woking:
Developer issues

Hi all

I would like to address the issue of live tiles vs widgets.

Live tiles themselves may not be 100% useful but the OS itself can link "toast" notifications to live tiles. For example, Weatherbug, which is an excellent free weather application for WP7, gives toast notifications for severe weather warnings (at least in the UK). I got my first one yesterday.

There are some unusual decisions, such as not to have toast notifications for new emails (unless that is a setting I hav missed). When you get a toast notification, the phone wakes up from standby and a small section at the top of the screen, the same colour as your theme choice, shows you the notification.

Obviously, as developers get to grips with the OS, we will see more applications that use this functionality, e.g. Twitter, Facebook, etc.

I think that the combination of live tiles and toast notifications gives users a good experience of being alerted to new information, etc.

Many thanks

andrew-in-woking
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
There were widgets in WM6.5. People were just too dumb to make userful ones.

Third party shells for Symbian and Windows Mobile had Widgets.

Android doesn't have any, if any, innovations in it. iOS had some, but Apple's innovation has pretty much stagnated both on the desktop and in their mobile OS.

Companies are obligated to protect their IP and enforce their copyrights and patents. They have shareholders. Microsoft isn't some 2 man shop developing apps an distributing them on some random forum or third party marketplace, you know...
[Windows Phone 7 General] mmelo76:
Yeah, sorry about the delay ....

I arrived ... cleaning .... this time I will not close the topic for this, as I did with another thread these days, I'm doing the cleaning on line - the clouds!

It's really a shame to see intelligent people lose control because of favoritism of one brand or company or OS.

I am very interested in this thread, and I believe other users, so I will not close, but I will tighten the siege.

Remember this is a forum for technology and knowledge, if they want to fight, do boxing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sinichi21:
LOL this tread actually went long, so amusing to read this thread xD.

It's just basically depends on what the user want. if user is lazy you can go for wp 7 (to me i called it for the old people cause everything is like so basic just 1 screen which i dont find it cool) not sure if they support flash 10.1 and also i dont like being on cage lock up to microsoft only thats why i went to android OS. I love tweaking things, customizing my phone to achieve its fullest potential. So to make the story short ask your self what you want and then decide which phone is for you
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
exectly...
[Windows Phone 7 General] truffle1234:
So what do u care after all??????

when microsoft delivered an OS which do not hang, Lag, reboots..... lots of ppl still *****ing... PPC2002 till WM6.5 ppl were *****ing as well...

And just for your info when bill gates started window he was student as well... and now one of the richest man.... he has developed an OS which allows a 10 year old to an 80 year old person to use PC without having PC knowledge or OS knowledge... can u say the same thing for Linux... 80% of the users in this world are not computer savee...

let me just ask u one thing: do u know what happen to Symbion???? the OPEN SOURCE Mobile phone OS... (its dying.....).

Free things are good for a short term gains but if you want quaility u have to pay... just take cars for example, if u but cheap car u get a cheap quality...
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Bill Gates dropped out of college in 1975.

The first version of Windows was released in 1985.

Please, just stop.

Linux, what Linux Torvalds released, was a toy. (Obviously it has matured into something more than a toy.)

Linux, what you know today, is the result of lots of developers working on their spare time to contribute, and developers being loaned by corporations (and funding, of course) to work on it full-time. It is not all that hard to write an OS kernel and many 3rd or 4th year ComSci students actually do that, which is why it doesn't suprise me that Linux was working on one himself. He was just lucky that his got picked, because there were others that were just as good back then, which weren't.

Linux is just a kernel. Some of the projects/components in Linux distros have existed 2-3x longer than Linux itself.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nrfitchett4:
so you would rather tweak your phone than use it??? Got it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] linuxmotion:
I do both. The tweaking allows me to use my phones true potential. Not what a company thinks I should use.

So who likes the live tiles. They seem like they could be very informative at a glance.

What Ms system doesn't have bugs, reboots, lags if I might ask. As there is no Ms version I know of for desktops that fits that description.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
Just go to social answers microsoft forums and read the threads on wp7 hanging on market, etc. if you think your os of choice is prone to bugs and errors you live in a bubble.

There are no errors, those are omissions
[Windows Phone 7 General] linuxmotion:
Thanks for the site

did you mean, no system is perfect, because you are right if that's what you mean.

Most bugs are not ommisions, but an implementation failure. All system have this problem. Ms, Linux, Mac. You name it. Update are to fix these failures and provide increased functionality.

I run Linux as my primary is and have had no system failures since switching. I also have winXP, win7. I just could not stand the lag or the inability to customize my software, so I switched. Linux does have bugs, but the bugs that I encounter are fixed fast. Meaning I have update like every week(mostly Dev stuff gets updated though). This ensures that any bugs are worked out and the system runs smooth.
[Windows Phone 7 General] greener88:
Have you even used wp7...?
[Windows Phone 7 General] linuxmotion:
Yes. I bought the ultimate edition... don't get me wrong its good, But I like Linux better.

Alright lets try getting back on topic.

I prefer android because of the ability to have more control over my device than other devices.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mr mystery:
He asked if you've used Windows Phone 7 NOT Windows 7
[Windows Phone 7 General] linuxmotion:
No but I specificly stated my position was desktop not phone for ms opinion. As I have never used wp7 I cannot say how the lag is. Seeing as how its at least a 1 ghz processor I would assume it lags very little.

I think wp7 is good phone as it has a it has to be able to compete in the current market. Live tiles seems like a real good feature.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Talys:
WP7 virtually never "lags". To me lag means that when the device is under some internally CPU intensive procedure, it gets choppy. For instance, loading a large web site, or during garbage collection.

To compare:

iPhone 3GS lags. Most Android phones lag. iPhone 4 almost never lags.

WP7 also almost never lags. Once in a very great while I will notice an animation stutter during screen transitions. But it is very, very rare. Certainly as good or better than iPhone 4 (I have own both; I feel iPhone 4 is also excellent at lag).

The other type of "lag" is just general choppiness, perceived smoothness and responsiveness.

In this respect I believe Android is often choppy. For example, when scrolling vertically an Android Screen with lots of stuff, the "FPS" seems turned down, like watching a complex Flash animation on Atom. If you put an Android device side by side with an iPhone 4, and flick up, the iPhone 4 simply looks smoother. If it’s a really long web page, and you flick vertically on iPhone 4, it will seem to zoom down the page super fast and smooth. Android phones seem more akin to iPhone 3G, maybe 3GS. WP7 and iPhone basically score a 10/10 in terms of scrolling smoothness, so it’s hard to say that one’s better than the other. But both are superior to Andriod, IMO.

Also flick momentum/kinetics plays a role here; the best devices "feel" like they have momentum, but will "stop on a dime" if you tap it to. Plus, bounce a little in the right places. Good momentum algorithm will add to the feeling of responsiveness. To put this into perspective, Archos devices usually have a horrible feeling of responsiveness. WP7 has an excellent responsiveness to it, again, basically perfect, like the iPhone 4.

Finally, Pinch and Zoom “lag” – how quickly it takes for an image that starts blurry to be rendered into a perfect viewable image. I think iPhone, WP7 and Android are “different” in this respect. I don’t think any one is vastly superior to another, and I don’t think any of them are perfect (although Android again, is simply not as smooth). A perfect pinch/zoom would never have blurriness; as you increase magnification, instead of showing a progressively antialiased blown up version, the device would render the exact image for that resolution instantly. It should look like when you enable V.A.T.S. on Fallout 3, not like Mr. Blurrycam for a second.

Not related to lag, I find Pinch superior on WP7 because pinching on iPhone shows grey checkers on surface area outside the original margins, while WP7 continues to render the previously invisible surface areas (ie outside of the screen margins).
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrew-in-woking:
Depends on the business model...

Hi truffle1234

I would like to comment on your statement: "if you want quaility u have to pay":

What is clearly true is that if a software product is going to be good quality, it will clearly need to have a lot of work put into it. This, in almost every circumstances, costs money.

However, there are two circumstances where it doesn't cost the consumer money:

Community based projects:

I am currently using Mozilla Firefox to type this post. I have not paid anything towards the cost of developing this software. It has, from my point of view, been developed for free. I could choose to donate to the Mozilla Foundation, but I don't have to. I think that Mozilla Firefox is a high quality product, which the end user does not need to pay for.

Wikipedia is an amazing online resource which I use all the time. If it had been developed on a commercial basis I suspect it would not have been as good, not as well used, and probably quite expensive. I think that Wikipedia is a high quality product which the end user does not need to pay for.

Alternative business models:

You no doubt have noticed that all Google products are free to end users, and many applications on Android and WP7 are also free. This is achieved through advertising. Another example of this business model is a newspaper that is freely disributed and is "paid for" by advertising revenue. In the UK we have many local papers and London's "Metro" which are disributed freely.

The advantage of this business model is that it is companies who stand to make the most profit out of the enterprise (i.e. the advertisers) who pay the most in terms of the development of the product, etc.

For me, at the moment Microsoft makes the highest quality desktop software, which is what swung me over to WP7, as I did not want to move onto a gmail account, which is not compatible with MS Outlook. However, I have no reason to believe that at some poit in the future either community based software products, or those based on a "Google-Type" business model will not overtake those of Microsoft in a competition for quality and end users.

Cheers

andrew-in-woking
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrew-in-woking:
Lags after start-up

Hi all

My WP7 device (HTC 7 Mozart) does lag a bit for a few minutes after I start it up. The scrolling is somewhat "choppy" but that is only for a few minutes. I have only "had" to restart my phone twice since I got it, both times after installing several new pieces of software on the device. Other times I have switched it off to preserve battery for later, in the cinema, etc.

Virtually all of the the time, the device's performance is completely rock solid. The only other thing that affects performance is your network connectivity, because a lot of WP7 applications have very active data connections, if the connection is slow they can appear very slow, even if the phone is running quickly. I would have thought that this is the case with any software/device that uses cloud based information.

Cheers

andrew-in-woking
[Windows Phone 7 General] henrik.dk:
you said it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] henrik.dk:
fragmentation to some extent is indeed positive as it gets rid of the burden of old stuff.

From wm to wp is the fragmentation M$ made to get rid of the outdated wm.

A closed OS is not necessary an OS never fragments.

iOS does, windows mobile does and wp will also.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
iOS does not fragment. Apple provides updates for phones so old that you could have gotten a contract renewal upgrade to the latest revision before that update. It doesn't fragment. Old computers can't run Windows 7. Old iPhones can't run iOS 4. That's just the way technology works. You can't support the old hardware forever, it eventually becomes a burden and a money sink.

Windows Phone 7 will not fragment as long as Microsoft continues to develop the drivers and deliver the updates. The hardware specs are high enough that Microsoft should be able to deliver updates to devices for as long as Apple before those devices are deprecated and eventually dropped off. In other words, you'll probably have upgraded your phone by then, in most cases.

Windows Mobile and Android do fragment, as well as Symbian, because the hardware is not standardized and the OS isn't delivered in the same way as iOS/WP7.

Symbian has recently moved to a WP7/iOS style of updating. Instead of releasing new versions of Symbian, they will release updates to all Symbian (^3 and later, but they're dropping the ^3 or whatever) devices.

Most smartphone OS vendors are realizing this needs to be done... Except Google? Is there not a reason why everyone else is moving to a "direct from us" model of updating their devices/OS software?
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Which apps are so data dependend?
[Windows Phone 7 General] thenotoriouspie:
By roms I really hope you mean winmo roms because if you're talking about android roms I think you have some serious problems in the head.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bodisson:
Lucky for me, I have read this thread first: The WP7 list of BUGS' Thread

Then I tried a WP7 phone, just out of curiosity... I have not liked many things in WP7 even when specs were announced.

Most anjoying thing was "who chopped my screen to parts" sense, never seeing complete information I needed.

Maybe I'm too old or conservative.

And my next phone will have native Android...