yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
So how did those "decades of experience" translate into great mobile products recently?

Their desktop products are fine. They have a lot of experience there, which is why Windows 7 is so awesome. But their mobile offerings are crap.

One would think with all their experience they'd have Windows running on ARM in 2010, but no. Their offerings are still fragmented between CE and NT.

Android runs on Intel hardware. Linux scales from the tinyest to the biggest machines, across all architectures. OS X runs on x86 and ARM. Windows on ARM?

Nothing, despite all the experience.

I don't have anything against Microsoft, but the truth is, they totally screwed up in the mobile market and WP7 is not an answer. It's telling that even Apple has a more scalable architecture than Microsoft. They finally need a scalable OS, not another version of crappy old CE.

Just look at their tablet "strategy". It tells everything.

They've got no clue about what to do in the mobile market (which by the way will soon be larger than the desktop market).
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Of course you do.

MeeGo is more scalable than Android, and Android has terrible backward/forward compatibility compared to iOS, Symbian, Windows Mobile, and I'm sure WP7 will retain compatibility as it moves forward. There's almost no reason not to because Microsoft's trackrecord speaks for itself.

Compatibility with hardware is not really anything to rave about. The only thing it requires is a device driver to be written.

You can store other sorts of files on SkyDrive. I don't know what you're talking about. You aren't limited to Music and Video.

Windows Live is the consumer version of Microsoft's SBS.

SharePoint: SkyDrive + Office Web Apps

Lync (Office Communicator): Live Messenger

Exchange: Hotmail (With ActiveSync, etc.)

etc.

Those who need SharePoint functionality, however, will be served by first-party apps that just work. Google doesn't even have a decent Google Docs client for Android, comparatively speaking.

What a lie.

And what a huge pile of lies you have spread around in this very thread. Embarassing.

The fact that you feel the need to defend it so vehemently pretty much lets us know that it's far from being as perfect as you claim it to be.

Android has huge functionality holes, and in most cases those are at least attempted to be plugged by the OEMs. Stock Android sucks compared to Sense/TouchWiz/Blue devices. The only advantage to it is speed in some cases (TouchWiz is not well optimized, IMO), and update lag is lower if you have a stock android phone (one that ships with stock or near stock android).

OEMs have to add audio/video codecs, they often have to tack on functionality to the Exchange clients (some license third party clients lke TouchDown, RoadSync, and Moxier). They have to license mobile Office Suites (QuickOffice/ThinkFree, etc.).

Then they cook in a bunch of third party apps into the ROM to fill in some other gaps.

There is more, but to be honest you're just a fanboi here to argue and nothing will change that. I'm gonna have to add you to the list now.

Ciao.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Nah, I don't like Apple. Microsoft makes much better stuff in general. But I judge products independently from the companies who make them and WP7 is not among Microsoft's good products.

MeeGo is vaporware and by the way not more scalable because it's mostly the same.

Android is the most backward/forward compatible OS ever created.

It's been designed with compatibility in mind from the ground up, because that way everyone working on Android (Google, OEMs, even custom ROM makers) can innovate much faster. That's the whole point of Android and that's why it is so far ahead.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Your definition of just works is what helps your specific argument.

The majority of Android purchases are on low-mid spec smartphones on cheap contracts, and lots of them in developing nations.

They're glorified feature phones.

WP7 will never be seen on such devices, and neither will iOS.

So, Android will always have more total sales than those competing OSes, because Microsoft/Apple simply will not allow their OSes to be put on those types of [seriously crappy] devices.

Maybe you think the Motorola Backflip, Charm, Aria, etc. are super phones. I think most people would disagree.

You should see the types of phones running Android, and lots of vendors are putting it on Tablets and phones with Resistive Touch screens and no access to Google services/apps (Gmail, Maps, Market, etc.) "cause they can."

If you think Android is winning because it's the whore of the smartphone OS market, then gratz. It's winning.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tone_:
Vaporware as in it's open and part of the linux tree and does not contain stolen IP, which cannot be said about android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
How about actually getting a clue about who stole what before posting random bull****?

That's why the Droid, Evo, Droid X and Galaxy S phones are the best selling, right?

Are you deliberately posting nonsense all the time or are you really that clueless?

Nobody (especially an owner of a Galaxy S phone) can possibly that clueless about Android (and smartphones in general).
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Windows CE is more scalable than iOS. There are mini-Netbook PCs running Windows CE. You do know that the heart of WP7 is CE, right? iOS does not outscale Windows CE, which runs in everything from Car systems to smartphones to computers, etc.

They aren't mostly the same. You're obviously not a software developer. MeeGo is not VaporWare and it outscales Android easily.

Also, so does the QNX operating system in the Blackberry Playbook.

Symbian as well. Symbian devices give similar performance to Android superphones with half the specs (RAM, Processor, etc.) in them (them being the symbian devices). Android relies on hardware moving forward at a fast rate because Google does not improve performance enough for the platform to grow on a relatively stagnant platform - or on older hardware.

Hrdware is thrown at the OS to alleviate obvious issues - the same way HTC threw hardware at Windows Mobile (i.e. the HD2) to alleviate it's performance problems.

That would explain why some applications require Android 2.2 becasue features were not backported due to compatibility reasons at the system level.

Linux was never known to be backward/forward compatibility. Systems built on Linux generally suffer from the same issue unless lots of engineering is put to remedy the issue. This has not been done for Android. Even with its VM architechture, compatibility suffers.

Again, you're obviously not a developer. This is a huge issue and it's part of why Android "fragmentation" has become such a big deal.

If Apps simply ran on older/newer versions the way you insinuate, then developers would not have such an issue with the fragmentation.

Windows Mobile was infinitely backward and forward compatible compared to Android. Android wins no prizes there, and you're a retard if you think they do.

You're a retard anyway. I know it's a mean thing to say, but read your posts in the thread.

They're freaking retarded.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
I am a developer and I find it appalling what you're posting here. You can't be serious. Usually I'm having fun telling brainwashed fanboys the truth and watching their reactions, but in your case it almost makes me sad.

N8ter, I actually don't want to answer any of your posts anymore. Are you deliberately posting nonsense or are you really that clueless?

(I'm assuming you're not paid for posting lies)

All the false information you're spreading here, it's outrageous.

It's ranging from "the best selling Android phones are cheap ones" to "WM has more functionality" over "CE is more scalable than iOS" or "Android is not backwards compatible", "no Galaxy S has Froyo", "Android needs tinkering", "Android doesn't have a Youtube app" etc. etc. etc.

And when I ask for a SIMPLE method to copy files to a WP7 phone, you tell me to upload them to SkyDrive. WTF??

If that is your definition of SIMPLE, I understand why you think WP7 works "out of the box"! And it explains why everyone else shares MY definition of "just works" (which applies to Android, because Android does not require ridiculous workarounds like uploading or emailing files).

How can one guy possibly post so much nonsense?

And yes, QNX is more scalable. That's the FIRST thing you got right, actually. I just don't know whether that's a reason to be happy or sad.
[Windows Phone 7 General] zukа:
Using bold makes me look smarter!!!
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
I never said Android didn't have a YouTube App. You're pulling that dingleberry from where the sun doesn't shine.

No question about SkyDrive was posed to me. I wan't posting in respone to any question about copying files.

You're posting a bunch of nonsense.

You're clearly out of your league and need to stop trolling this forum with you false statements, sensationalized nonsense, and fumbling "logic."

You're more than free to fact-check my posts (obviously, you haven't) and you're more than free to go back over this thread and read by my post and yours.

You're trolling. I won't feed you anymore. You're already obese and I'm sure my taxes will go up because of it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vbetts:
Os X can run on AMD. Voodoo kernel gives the ability to run it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
That's a hack. Stock OS/X won't run well on hardware it wasn't designed for. Apple probably doesn't even test the OS on AMD processors. Unline Windows it does not have binaries and system components/drivers optimized for both processor types.

In many cases, software written for one will run on another with few modifications, though, unless you use instructions bound to one processor. That is why the Voodoo hack gets it to run.

Furthermore, there is also the issue of drivers for components in the computer system as well, since Apple only tests with the components they use, and only provides drivers for the components they use.

There's just too many hacks to get OS/X to run well on non-Apple machines, plus they have the "dongle thing" going on... Too bad their machines are horrifically overpriced.

You're better off just getting a Linux or FreeBSD OS (hell, even Solaris) and spending that time tweaking the **** out of it to make it look and somewhat function like OS/X, TBQH.

You just won't get the apps (which is actually a biggie, cause F/OSS desktop apps are notoriously bad).
[Windows Phone 7 General] nrfitchett4:
If android is backwards compatible, shouldn't flash work on 1.5 devices???

Why is angry birds making a lite version for the older android versions?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/19/rovio-feels-the-burn-of-android-fragmentation-plans-light-ver/

According to your logic, android works better out of the box, yet you haven't explained why except that wp7 doesn't let you use your device as a usb stick so therefore, it doesn't work right.

What are you a developer for? I'll make sure to avoid those products.

It's amazing that everyone on here has refuted your claims with real facts, yet we are the ones that are "clueless".

Congrats on making my ignore list, seems to be full of android fanbois these days.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vbetts:
You haven't been in the osx86 scene for awhile have you? :D

Core 2 systems with at least p35 chipsets, and so far i3/i5/i7 platforms can run completely vanilla Snow Leopard. Apple, nvidia, ATI, Intel, via, broadcamm actually have support for a lot of chipsets aside from the ones inside real Apple systems. Nvidia in their packages, have kext supports for just about every variation of their video cards since the 6 series, despite only actually having 1 real product that Apple didn't completely support. The 285 for Mac was not made and designed by Apple unlike most of their other gpus available in Apple Machines. As far as AMD goes, the only difference is the kernel is different. Everything else works. And no OS X may not have support natively for both cpu types, but both cpus run the same basic x86/x64 cores. The structure is the same, it's just the instructions in the cpus that differ.

The dongle thing, was EFI-X, which there's a reason why that hasen't hit off at all. It was terrible!

Over priced hardware, it is to a point. But, when you look at an Apple machine you have to take into consideration a few things.

Build quality

Components used

Design

Profit

Foxxcon makes the logic boards for all Macs, and other random companies make the other parts in the Mac. But Apple designs them 100% and builds them. They use high quality aluminum, and high endurance plastic for their machines, top of the line parts. The IPS screen they sell, is actually average price for an IPS screen. The only reason why PCs built for Windows aren't as much, is because PC parts are cheap to create, manage, and isn't always guaranteed to work right. Plus, Microsoft licenses out their OS, while Apple keeps a tight platform. Thus giving less problems with hardware capability. Hardware capability is one of the reasons why Vista didn't do so well.(NT kernel kind of sucks, that's the real story. Registry sucks...D: )

The sad thing is, I like Os X a lot. I love Os X. I ran osx86 on my machine before, xbenched higher than stock Apple machines. But, I play games on my machine. Emulating Direct X and Windows environment on Os X is not the easiest and smart thing to do. I'm not gonna run an Os to use basic programs like Mozilla, or Itunes, or Sketchup when they're all available on Windows.

But that's not what this topic is about. If you want to keep talking about Osx86, or more interested in it, feel free to PM me. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] diego1985:
@ tomhierl, save your breath. Talking to dudes like N8ter is like talking to a brick wall. they will see the light eventually lol. In the mean time let them wait for the features we enjoy out of the box and return to our happy android forums. It is ridiculous thy way these guys pole jock a unfinished product like wp7. This coming from a guy that came from 6.5, we know a blind man can see wp7 took a step back from 6.5. But wait! they gonna hit us with "its still new". Forgetting Microsoft was on top of the mobile game back in the day. I have every right to bash Microsoft, because i was with them longer than any of these wp7 adopters. Sorry for the long post, tomhierl lets return to our beautiful android worlds lol.

Edit for my last poster. Im not going to argue about gaming but *coughs* No game gripper for wp7, lets face it touch screen controls sucks for gaming. And oh how i love emulators like snes, sega genesis etc you name it in the market. Can you say the same? I think we all know the legal wp7 marketplace answer to that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Apple tests osx on intel. Were talking about amd.

Think you misunderstiod so something there buddy.

Not gonna argue about price. If its worth it to u, then buy it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
Yea ive already added this troll to ignore. He's bat**** crazy, for sure.

And he's not a developer. I'm pretty sure of that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vbetts:
No, I didn't actually. I was also talking about AMD, I started to talk about AMD in this thread. :D Like I said, as far as prices go Apple products are just as much over priced as what your average Dell is priced at, only difference is quality and design. And of course Apple tests on Intel, that's what their platform is based off of. Should have mentioned it earlier, it's not a hack it's a kernel replacement for AMD systems. Not made by Apple, but gets the same apple experience.

Like I said though, feel free to PM me. :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] nrfitchett4:
Please do return to your android forums. I can't figure out why so many android lovers spend all their time over here anyways.

I've been with winmo long enough to know why MS abandoned it and started over. Lots of freeze ups (on multiple devices), having to install custom ROMs or lots of hacks and tweaks to make it usable.

With WP7, I might not be able to boot into android, but why would I need to.

I have a fluid, fast OS, that "out of the box" works better than any winmo device I've had. I haven't had a freeze up, I haven't had to pull the battery, I don't even have a reset button (for good reason).

No I don't have usb storage capabilities, or a replaceable micro sd card, but you can read the hd2 forums to see how well sd cards worked "out of the box" on that device. I had to scan and fix errors on my sd card daily to keep my device from locking up. And this is with the stock sd card that came with it. It took over 6 months for htc to fess up that the stock cards were bad and then only issued some people free replacements.

No, I don't have third party music playing in the background. But since zune is the best music player I've used on a mobile device, I haven't missed it. I can drag music and videos straight onto the device, download music straight from zune, stream from zune, and podcasts autosync over your home wifi so you don't have to attach your phone to your pc. Just plug it in, and 10min of inactivity later, it syncs wirelessly.

When is a netflix app coming to android? Oh wait, it won't come to all devices due to security concerns. Guess that is one of the pros of android fragmentation.

Gaming on android is admitted by the "experts" to be the worst of the smartphones. This comes from gizmodo, engadget, etc. Except for angry birds, I can't name one android game I've heard of. And I used to boot android on my hd2, just to see what was out there. While xbox live is a little gimmicky right now, there are more high end games on wp7 right now, then on android with its years headstart.

So does wp7 have more features than android??? Of course not. And no one here is saying that it does. But for those of us that like it, it does what we need it to do and does it well.

Y'all can keep saying that wp7 is behind the curve, but we were saying the same thing about android just a couple of years ago. Considering the number of smartphone users out there, there is plenty of growth for wp7 to catch up. Will it make it? Who knows, but we know that microsoft is willing to spend billions to try and make it happen and they are off to a good start.

Let's look at the numbers:

It took android 9 months to get to 5k apps. How many does wp7 have 2 months after launch????
[Windows Phone 7 General] rockstarar:
@Tone_, you just made my day with this. and the fact nobody noticed it made tomorrow too. :D

Originally Posted by

trollhierl

View Post

So you're saying I can copy any file to my WP7 phone and read it there without jailbreaking or emailing it to myself or other stupid workarounds?

I can have a third party music app play in the background?

No? Well, then I'm obviously right. You need to jailbreak and tinker with WP7 in order to make it useful.

Android? It just works.

That is not what you originally said, you are trying to re-word you post so you don't look stupid - it won't work.

You said the radio cannot play in the background, it does by default.

You said a jailbroken windows phone - there is no such think, you can only jailbrake ios.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vbetts:
As much as I like Android, I gotta argue with some of your points.

If it "just works", then why do we spend countless hours tweaking, rooting, and setting up custom roms on our phones? I can sure as hell tell you, stock Android 2.1 on my Moment was terrible. So bad to the point I had to root. Android worked, after I rooted it. Even then, the hardware Samsung chose had so many issues and Sprint offers a downgraded version of the Moment known as the Intercept to replace it.(Though the Intercept has Froyo, the Moment has the C-mod now :D)

You made need it, but it's obviously something that most people did not need. Which I like Android gives this option, but remember that it's just a phone at the end of the day.

The real question is, why you do need a third party music app if the stock Android app works fine? If the stock apps works for what it was intended for, then why replace it? Never understood that with apps. I don't need a different browser app, music app, had to download a decent video app though for media codecs, and downloaded a new launcher since the stock Froyo launcher isn't as smooth as Launcher Pro or ADW, and I'm not too much a fan of Sense. My email client works just fine, my radio app works with no issues, so why do I need a third party app for this? I understand if you want or need one, but that doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE with an Android phone needs it and must have it too.

See my first argument. :D

Now you're just taking this too literally!
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Regarding "it just works":

In my case it was just opposite.

WP7 worked out of the box, immediately.

Android/SE X10 could not sync with Google by any means.

Even Calendar app doesn't work in this situation.

So WP7 is a winner here...

The UI on WP7 is REALLY 2 times more smooth than Android.

And, while my Android one was having little UI problems without ANYTHING installed on it,

WP7 runs like butter with 15 apps installed in 30 minutes.

That IS remarkable level of quality.

But I keep my opinion: WP7 will be a massive thing only with missing features.
[Windows Phone 7 General] N8ter:
His posts are littered with contradictions. It's actually funny to read that crap, in some backwards way. It's also hillarious how all the other Android fanbois have abandoned him in this thread.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I don't think his posts are always full of crap.

I still think Android - unfortunately - can do much more IN SOME areas.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mmelo76:
closed for cleaning.

The thread is WP7 Vs Android, and not: tomhierl Vs. N8ter.

.....Edit: Change of plans.

I will not clean up this thread, other threads have to care, our forum is great. Unfortunately, the arguments and fights too.

I'll close this thread permanently.

I'm doing this because it opened a new thread like this: Choosing between Android and Wp7

But I'm warning you, any fight, insult, discussion again, I will also close!

If they can not keep their arguments without attacks, it is best not to post.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Hssarth:
I've been using MS' mobile device interface since the black and white days of Windows CE and have been fairly happy with the progress they've made since then. Only now, my upgrade is up and I have to decide between WP7 and Android. Glancing through this thread though, there are some things I haven't seen yet...

WP7:

-When jailbroken, I would assume (*knocks on wood*) that the flag for hard-resetting the device upon swapping the SD card would be removed.

-When jailbroken, there's no doubt people will be loading all kinds of strange 3rd-party apps (Eee.) So... Why hasn't anyone mentioned the obvious probability of a Droid port? Or for that matter, legacy support (even if through an emulator)?

Droid:

-Someone mentioned earlier how the program UIs were inconsistent from each other. It's pretty much the same thing with current WM applications. To be quite honest, I actually -prefer- how open any individual program's UI can be. There are a lot of things I just really wouldn't want to use the Zune UI for.

-There's a higher probability that apps made for other devices will end up on this platform in one form or another. (Part of why I'm actually hoping for a droid boot loader to come out for WP7.)

As much as I hate to say this, I think I may end up sticking it out until sometime in 2011 when the community has come up with the proper utilities for WP7 devices so I can actually know what to expect. As it is right now, everything's still rather fluid.
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
Could you please explain what he should be blaming his issues with the Samsung Galaxy S on if he has top of the line hardware that has proven to work smoothly on other OS's?