yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] zukа:
I think that's kinda the idea. WP7 and its devices are intended as premium devices, alternatives to the iPhone. Android gets most of its market share from lower specced devices.

Let's try and keep this civil, both OSes have their strengths and weaknesses and both are good.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
You have to give things time to develop. It took android almost 2 years (Up toQ3 of this year really) to fully become recognized as an OS. Sure it was there before that and we loved it but we were more or less the phone OS rogues who wanted to give a nice big "screw you" to the iphone and their worthless OS. Windows phone is a month or two old and is still a baby in it's first incarnation. How well do you think android would be doing if it was in its first version? Even it's first commercial version cupcake was screwy but with updates and support it grew to completely trump the iphone. We may be a bit late in the game but for android's time so was it. I love android but after playing with WP7 I just cant take it seriously as anything more than a gaming device by comparison. I hate to say it after being such a fanboy and making fun of the iphone fans for well over a year but it's true.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
Great Thread

I have read about half the posts in this thread, even the defensive and aggressive ones, with great interest. I am at the point where I am deciding between an Android device and a WP7 device so this thread is perfect for me. I am an old MS guy. Having said that, I expected WP7 to have at least the full functionality of WM 6.5.5, and why shouldn't I? It should have had at least the full range of functionality and features as the prior OS. That is only reasonable. You'll never convince me otherwise. I am 62 years old and have supported software releases my entire career. The things that are missing from WP7 that were included in WM 6.5.5 are indefensible so all you WP7 defenders need to stop trying, it makes no sense from a market or technical perspective. It was a desperate move by MS to keep themselves in the game.

AND THAT IS OK!!!!!!! Just don't try to defend it as anything else, you lose credibility. I will give WP7 a couple more months to add the basics that WM 6.5.5 had. I am happy with the device and ROM in my signature and, if I am not, I'll burn a new one, they are available from chefs here every couple of weeks or less. I would like a snappier processor and larger screen, but the promise of a workable WP7 device in a couple of months is worth the wait. I see the promise of WP7 as more valuable than the current Android OS, as long as that promise is near term in realization.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Certainly commendable. However the main pooint Microsoft has tried to convey in their latest OS is that WM6.5 is not its predecessor. It is an entirely new operating system built on an entirely different foundation from the ground up. It's not meant to be a computer in your pocket anymore just a phone with all of the necessary multimedia and communications features because everything else was just fluff for devs. I understand and respect your opinion of Windows Mobile, I cherished my HD2 android and windows mobile side and I thoroughly enjoyed the customization. The fact is though they overloaded it and put in a lot of confusing settings and applications that no one except an XDA member would understand. This ones meant for both the simpletons (e.g. Iphone users) and in time will develop for those of us who like to tinker a bit more. I will tell you though It truly is a relief to get a phone that works out of the box. I don't think I've had a phone like that since the introduction of text messaging. One major plus I've found is that I no longer have to spend a fortune on the software necessary to build a valid app. I'm currently working to bring a full length RPG to WP7 (though the graphics are embarassing at best, I'd compare them to final fantasy 5.) and until I create a market account it's costing me absolutely nothing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
What it amounts to is childish greed. Certain people want every offering of tech to be exactly the they want it to be. There are offerings available for them to sate their needs, but they want **everything** to be their way. They have no room for the needs and desires of others. WP7 and iPhone are just a couple offerings in the smartphone market, which includes Android, WinMo, WebOS, Symbian and a few others to provide these certain people with fulfillment of their needs. But that isn't enough for them, they also want WP7 and iPhone to bow to their demands. Life just isn't fair to them unless every conceivable offering meets their demands.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I believe you day it best when you say quality over quantity. We cant doo as much as they can with our homescreen but regardless of what we do it's going to be fast, fluid, and beautiful.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
I once had a phone that you described - moto razr, worked out of the box, before the txt msg was a feature I had a phone that worked out of the box to the standards at that time - nokia 3210.

And your point of wp7 being a multimedia device just re-enforces the fact that out is a zune player with a SIM card nothing less nothing more, and hence, it has no competition. Does KIN ring a bell?

Sent from my bionix powered Vibrant
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
I guess you guys say XP was version 1.0, Vista was version 1.0, 2000 was version 1.0, and Windows 7 is version 1.0? Brand new OSes huh? I guess ppc200x-wm6.5.3 were all version 1.0?

I guess WP7 skipped a kernel? If not then its not version 1.0. Metro is not 1.0. WP7 is just another reiteration of their mobile OS. To forget every previous OS is foolish. To say WP7 was built from scratch is foolish.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
Have you by chance ever used a windows mobile phone as opposed to a windows phone 7? They literally have absolutely nothing in common be it coding or structure. The entire interface as well as the operating system itself is built from scratch. Windows mobile was exactly what it entails, It was a mobile version if windows that frankly fell short due to the crap hardware of it's time. This however is a version of windows built for a phone having essentially nothing to do with the desktop program windows and being more closely related to the xbox than the desktop os. I m'ean seriously, at least glance at the devices before you insult them. The fact that its WP7 is just to keep it at eye level with Windows 7. Uniformity there will help sales.

and lqaddict, last I heard those were the most succesful phones of their times. I remember the razor craze and that phone was ugly as sin. I would rather have a functional zune with phone capabilities than an android phone that has an interface with no GPU acceleration, a terrible music interface, a so-so texting interface a so-so dialing interface, a mediocre browsing experience and a generally unappealing UI regardless of how you dress it up. It doesnt matter what SMS replacement app or new dialer you install regardless they are not anywhere near as functional as WP7's. You have more customization and a healthier market. Big deal, you've had 2 years to build that market up. Our platform is 10 times easier to develop on, a few decent developers and we'll have games that put android to shame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
WM 6.5, WP7

I just went to the Windows Mobile site for the US and it is now "Windows Phone". What we call Windows Mobile 6.5, MS refers to as Windows Phone 6.5, even in their APPS pages. Soooooooo, I have a hard time swallowing the argument that Windows Phone 7 is NOT the next phase of Windows Phone (formerly Windows Mobile) 6.5. Having said that, I stand by my assertion that MS should have released the latest version of "Windows Phone" that at the very least had the full features and functionality of Windows "Phone" 6.5. They are positioning WP7 as the next version based upon the presentation on their web site. To release a next version of an OS that does not contain at the very least the features and functionailty of the prior version is absurd or desperate.

I am still a supporter of WM (now Windows Phone) and will adopt a new device based upon WP7 WHEN it contains the features and functions of WM 6.5.
[Windows Phone 7 General] orb3000:
Hi andrew-in-woking,

Yes that would be the best way if we have WP7 on any shop in México but we don´t:(
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
So what would you prefer, for MS to wait till February before releasing a full-featured phone, or get it out for the holidays with core functionality in tact and working well? If you say they should have waited, check with their shareholders about that. As far as I'm concerned, I kept up with the news about WP7 and knew enough and had a good enough feel for it to be able to adopt it early and wait patiently for the polished features to be installed with an update.

If MS would have shoved WP7 out ahead of time with unpolished features, I and many other would have counted it off as another hash of WinMo and would have passed it by.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
And for the record the fact that android didn't come with a file manager initially by default goes to show that it wasnt intended for you to sideload apps on there. Then there was adb and file explorers and well, that went out the window. Hell I know I got some paid apps for free thanks to that. Windows won't have a file explorer due to that reason and if they do it will be very limited. They care about artist integrity and if someone pours themselves into an app they deserve a bit of payment for it. Aside from that and the apps announced previously what are we truly lacking that 6.5 had aside from a decent app market (which they didn't have but we need) and copy/paste?
[Windows Phone 7 General] The Gate Keeper:
as much as I want to see all these features that everyone deems as "missing", there is no definite from MS that they'll be in the update except for copy/paste. but i do hope that MS takes the opportunity to roll out a lot of the features that we all deem as missing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] cbebop7:
well obviously not all features will make it in the next update, but I'm quite sure most of the bug fixes and cut-copy-paste will be there. lol but if they do manage to bring in 3rd party multitasking also b4 feb its really gonna deal a heavy blow to the fruits and droids.
[Windows Phone 7 General] jcX4ever:
Sorry but dumb phone can do what you just said except reading MS docs. I remember my Sony Ericsson phones.. they can all do that but they are not smartphones.. they are dumb phones.

But I'm still looking forward on WP7... I consider it as a baby which will grow as time goes by.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Shagman68:
Blah, blah, blah. Doesn't matter which OS is in a phone, some of us just can't leave well enough alone. I was flashing roms way back when a phone was only a phone, just getting their first cameras in them. My two cents...

Sent from my Vibrant using the XDA app.
[Windows Phone 7 General] greenbrd:
180 degrees

Where have I heard this argument before?

Oh, that's right. Back when these threads were "Windows Mobile vs. iPhone?" and the MS defenders were touting the customization and tweakability of Windows vs. the locked-down one-size-fits-all approach of iOS.

My, how times have changed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Not at all. Those very same MS defenders are now crappin on MS for its locked-down stance. The ones now defending MS are partly the iPhone crowd and mostly the ones who stayed silent during MS's customization days.

The only thing that has changed is the silent ones are no longer silent.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Well, what do we miss? A alot I think.

C & p, multitasking, file browser, transfer of files through bluetooth, sync with desktop etc.

These things influence other, like beeing able to drop documents desktop <> phone, or attach freely files to emails etc.

And agree with other post here:

My second FEATURE phone SonyEricsson Cedar (80 Euro) has almost all of the missing things on WP7,

still beeing a nice consumer candybar.
[Windows Phone 7 General] nehvada:
...and people are just getting older. me personally do no longer feel to tweek all day to get my phone nice and running. i used to have fun doing this when i was younger. now i only want it to do what i need it to do instantly.

and THEN when i am bored i might think about some modding, but ONLY for the fun of it, not because i need to. thats why i switched to the iphone from day one, tried android a few times, and now use WP7.

on top of that i now have the choice of many different devices, but never have to be afraid of that this or that device might not run very well with the oS. its now just a matter of taste what i choose.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
Exactly! There are choices. There are plenty of choices available to suit everyone's taste, but for some reason, people who hate a locked system feel the need to harass it for being locked, even though it is only one of two locked systems among a majority of open systems.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrew-in-woking:
ah...

Hi orb3000

I am sorry to hear that. It's surprising how much we take for granted in a rich country.

Cheers

andrew-in-woking
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
Waiting on MS

Not at all. For me and many others, "waiting on the next release or update" from MS has always been a "crap shoot" in terms of timing and content. Betting on MS doing anything is risky at best. You happen to still have faith in MS doing the right thing and doing it in a reasonable timeframe. I would like to feel that way, but can't, based upon the track record of MS. That's why I will wait to see the content of their next upgrade and make my decision then. I happen to be an early adopter, but that can get you burnt and I am older now and no longer fireproof. Until then, WP7 is missing some features (defined in other posts) that I find basic (to me). To all of those defending why they are missing, that's not the point. The point is, they are missing and I wish they weren't. I would already have a WP7 device if they weren't. I am not saying WP7 is "bad" or deficient versus Android, it's just a disappointment in its current state.
[Windows Phone 7 General] andrew-in-woking:
To be or not to be...

...a smartphone?

Hi all

The context to my comments is that I have bought a HTC 7 Mozard having researched these two OSs and their relative attractions and drawbacks. I've had my device for just under a month and so far I am happy with my decision.

One question that comes up here is whether or not WP7 is a Smartphone. My view is that is just scrapes into this category, but not by much. I think that the naming of the OS as "Windows Phone" and not "Windows Smartphone" is quite significant. It is obvious that at some point in the future the term "Smartphone" will become completely redundant because all phones will, to one extent or another, be smartphones.

It is true that Android was designed with a very wide range of hardware in mind, similar to the original Windows Desktop OS. Microsoft's original vision was that every home and office would have a Windows Powered computer in it, and they effectively achieved this wherever people can afford computers.

Google clearly have had the same vision for Android and "phones" from the start. I'm sure that their vision is that everybody who ownes a mobile/cell phone has an Android powered device in their pocket (how else would they know which advertising to sell to us?).

I think that the idea of a "Smartphone" changed significantly with the release of the original iPhone in 2007 and that this effectively made Windows Mobile and other competing plaforms look totally pathetic in comparison (even if just on a cosmetic basis).

So where are we now? I don't think that Microsoft set out to make a new "smartphone" platform, based on the current market. While I don't think that they will achieve it in full, I think that they are looking to have an impact on the market and consumer choices, similar to that which Apple had in 2007.

For me the device is designed around user experience rather than whether or not it meets an existing definition of what a device is for. What had become "Windows Phone 6.5" was of course the end of the line in development of "PocketPC", the principle of which was to have a mini computer in your pocket. This is clearly not the design principle behind WP7.

As a WP7 user I think that the OS has been designed for people who have access to a computer most of the time (i.e. at home and at work) and who want to do just some of the things that a computer can do on the move, e.g. check and respond to email. See what is happening quickly on Social Networks, upload photos, look up information on The Internet, etc.

WP7 is clearly not the productivity powerhouse that WM6.5 was and to be honest, I am not convinced it will ever be. I don't think that Microsoft have this in mind for the device. I think that Microsoft are betting on a general shift in the cell/mobile phone market that will see the idea of a smartphone fading into insignificance as more and more phones become "smartphones" by default.

Cheers

andrew-in-woking
[Windows Phone 7 General] JamesAllen:
Well said. I think this is what is frustrating those of us who liked the "Pocket PC" as exemplified in WM 6.5, and were hoping for "WM7", an enhanced WM 6.5 running on more powerful hardware. I guess we are a niche market. What remains to be seen is how close WP7 gets to our perception of the "Pocket PC". I think it may get close, given the history and core business of MS, but you may be correct that it will never get as close as WM 6.5. For some of us, that's a shame.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
That was in reference to your call that you haven't seen the phone work out of the box until you handled WP7 device.

Music department I will leave it up to you, I am listening to my music while on the go, and rarely stare at the screen, it sounds to my ears, does it need to do anything else?

Well with "so-so texting" at least I can see textee and texter convo's - I see world in color, and make them different colors makes it a lot easier, doesn't it? What else should I do with txt?

Let's talk about the dialer - numbers are there, keypad is there hang-up button is there. What else, oh yeah I can dial my Dad without brining up the contacts just start pressing 3-2 and his number is right there in the dialing pad - nice, eh?

Browsing experience, what's there to talk about? Zoom to pinch works, scrolling works, the pages load as fast as the other platforms. Am I missing something?

I am just curious what apps are you using besides the ones that come with the phone? Not interested in games.

Mines are pandora, news readers (engadget app, ny times, motor trend, onion news network), barcode scanner, chrome-to-phone, awesome drop and dropbox, flickr uploader, weather radar app, and some tweaking apps (SGS tools, metamorph, etc.), vlingo.

Titanium backup to back up my apps, data and settings.

And they all do what they are described to do.

I am not including the google apps, music player and video player.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
My goodness dude at least know what you're talking about. You must have signatures turned off. Anyway I've had a WM device since WM5.

Yes you can say Microsoft took a different route with WP7, but it is still just another reiteration of their mobile OS.

Please show me some valid proof that WP7 was built from scratch. Show me that the Metro UI is new. Show me that this isn't just the 7 iteration of their mobile OS. You can't forget the past 10 years.

I must admit they had me fooled too, I thought it was completely new, until I did my research.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
My statement regarding the phones just working out of the box did mention that it had been since about the introduction of text messaging since they were. That may have been slightly exaggerated but it has been years since it has really occured either way. I know android's apps function, I was an android fanboy til I picked up wp7 but what's been seen can't be unseen. Texting, emailing, browsing, calling, just works better on these devices. On android I had to pay for SMS widgets before I really felt comfortable with the way that was set up and even then it was hit and miss at best. As for your apps, those will be out on every mobile platform, its primarily news and doesnt really show off any device capabilities one way or another.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
It's built upon the evolution of the previous kernel and therefor the operating system can't be new? The OS is built in an entirely different language and though I may be wrong, it can run unix based applications but is not itself unix based. I've done my research bith in text and with hands on time and this OS truly has absolutely nothing to do with WM6.5 and thats good because sales on that were dismal at best. The only reason that garbage sold was the TP2 and the HD2 in my opinion. I mean if you're on an array of devices like that was and you still cant keep up with iphone when you were in the game earlier.... that's just sad. WM7 was apparently made but never released because, well, they saw the evolution of smartphones and decided to go in a different direction. Windows Mobile photon does exist though even if it is just in the hearts of the dying breed that is windows mobile fans. It;s no wonder our device isn't in everyone's hand if they think it was built off of windows mobile. I apologize for grammar I've got a 2 month old asleep on my chest and can't see half of what I type.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
I am still not getting the SMS/calling bit to be something to wow about in wp7.

I didn't list the apps to brag about, I asked you to list me the apps you use on wp7, and I am yet to see a single one you have.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ I can agree but it is still yet another mobile OS from Microsoft. Microsoft is not new at this. That is my main point.

I can't agree that WM was selling because of MS. The last 2-3 years WM was kept alive ONLY because of the OEMs. SE, HTC, and Samsung were the main reason WM was still around.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Best statement in this thread. This sums it up.
[Windows Phone 7 General] z33dev33l:
I can't say I use much in terms of third party apps. I use the craigslist app and the facebook app and aside from that it came with Netflix and Slacker both of which are amazing apps (I love pandora but Slacker seems to pick more of what you want and not just similar music. When I was running Incubus radio and Justin Bieber came up I ditched pandora as a whole.)

I do agree that they arent new to this but smartphones 3 years ago weren't near as good as they are today... That's the last time winmo had any drastic changes aside from user created ones. I know they're not new to this and due to this they were able to do some market research and with their last versions learn what not to do. Fortunately in doing so they have created something that is well beyond functional and regardless of customization and current market functions better than any other current OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] MartyLK:
That's what really annoys me about the WP7 naysayers. They complain that WP7 is too far diverted from WinMo and say it's bad. But they never seem to think about what marketshare WinMo has had. It was a loser and MS was getting sorely beaten up by the competition because of the bad rap WinMo had for being buggy and terrible. Any company with sharholders will drive to be ahead of the competition. Yet when MS makes a move in an attempt to be competitive in the smartphone market, people harass them for diverting away from a loser like WinMo.

I suppose MS should just bow to the will of the tiny percentage of WinMo users who are pissed that they are moving away from the losing standard just to keep them happy as their smartphone endeavor tanks.