yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] deteego:
I would argue that to be true assuming people are well informed of the advantages and disadvantages of the choices

Having ext4 regarded as a "default" is more of a detriment then a benefit, but if someone wants to use ext4 then of course there is no reason they shouldn't

You have a link to this (I can probably help in that regard ;) )

Of course

Yes but there is always a better choice given the circumstances we deal with. We don't use screwdrivers when you smash nails into a plank of wood (even if its doable)
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
I have tried out all ext filsystem and i don't understand why people still insists to use ext4. Look in all kernel tread you always see complain on ext4 using more battery. I believe that's because the extra overhead and the way ext4 works.

I don't see why using it at all on sgs.

I know ryanza got alot if heat on this subject before, but i know he is right. I been testing alot and my conclusion is always the same. Ext2 works best on sgs.

Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 342MB Ram
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] magote:
Just one thing: why does everyone discusses about ext2 vs ext4, and no one talks about ext3, the FS chosen by HTC to manage /data on their new devices, like the G2 and Desire HD, their flagship devices?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] spline1:
JFS ?

because JFS is no alternative to ext4?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] xan:
http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8925903&postcount=649

But as I stated earlier, I think he got over this already, on the way to 0.4

Ah, about JFS, I'm curious how it fits in.

I've used it with ULF, but have some serious data realiability issues. They may be ULF-specific though...
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] spline1:
I have used with JFS speedmod kernel.

No problems.

I am looking for the best file system :-)

By speedmodkernel I can not switch all ext2

JFS is for file servers have been. Is not it better for many small files?

Journaling only metadata?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] kasper_h:
I'm also seriously considering the JFS option. I also use the speedmodkernel... Currently I don't use any lagfix scheme (tried ext4, but this doubled battery use for me) and although the system runs very smooth without fix, some program which have to retrieve info from cache (?) take some time to start (black screen)....
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] _JKay_:
I think I have to repeat myself. I dont think any of these file systems are unsecure to use. So for me its all about speed and battery use. So...

Use EXT4 for /system if its faster at reading than rfs, ext2 or jfs

Use EXT2 for /data /dbdata and /cache because its faster at writing...

End of story...
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] spline1:
i never see a benchmark jfs vs. ext4 on moviNAND
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] deteego:
JFS is meant to be a file system that is kind of average in all areas (and doesn't really excel in one area)

The one thing that JFS excels that though is apparently saving battery life. Its meant to use a lot less CPU power then other filesystems (ext*,XFS,RFS,Reiser etc etc) so its definitely a candidate for use on the SGS

Not sure if ext4 is faster at reading then ext2 on a NAND based device (it is on desktops but thats a totally different story)

Well ext3 is just ext2 with journaling

Journaling does create overhead, which in some cases can be massive (i.e. uses a lot of writes/reads which is limited on NAND based devices). Check here for more info

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives

Then we however have to look at the benefits of journaling on the SGS, and I haven't seen a single case where having ext2 with unsafe shutdowns has actually caused any corruption
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] spline1:
So JFS is a real alternative to ext4?

Why not make a fix with reiser FS?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] deteego:
ResierFS is actually theoritically meant to be a VERY good candidate for mobile phone storage, because the fs is incredibly fast in read/writes when you have numerous small files (which is the situation we have with phone storage). Faster then any ext*

People still have issues using ResierFS though, since it hasn't really be maintained for a while and there has been a lot of funny stuff in regards to Reiser development

And as for JFS, well JFS should be considered an alternative for ext2/ext3 (as I said earlier, ext4 shouldn't even be used in my opinion). People have had issues using both JFS and ResierFS with android though
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] btje:
Why don't we use ubifs which is meant for flash based systems?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] harrydg:
wear leveling is done on-chip, so shouldn't be done "extra" by the fs
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
Ahh the old fs tread. Well i still use ext2 and still not had a crash.

I also have many 1000 of people use my kernel with ext2. So far i got 1 complain.

And i don't know how many sgs that run on ext2 either. I think its time to stop this focusing on ext4 and understand there is more file system that works as good.

**DamianGTO Ultimate kernel. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Steam Rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] etking:
No! A crash with ext2 and ongoing file operations can cause data loss and serious file system integrity errors!

Just checking and fixing your filesystem wont bring back any data.

When booting with ext2 lagfix the filesystem check/fix sometimes took 10 minutes or more on my SGS.

ext4 is a much more reliable filesystem and the chance to loose data on crashes is reduced.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
Well i guess you did not read anything about this.

But as usually all people that use ext2 is wrong. Lol.

**DamianGTO Ultimate kernel. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Steam Rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] ragin:
Samsung made a change in the file system in 2.2.1 to make it run smoother.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] bdl1969:
Yes, but has anyone worked out what they actually changed though? I certainly find my SGS far less laggy with 2.2.1, but running an EXT4 lag fix it's less laggy still so Samsung have gone part of the way but not the whole way!
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Auzy:
Huh? Having looked through the threads, I can't actually find any evidence that anyone has actually properly tested the differences. There's plenty of totally theoretical discussions here, but it doesn't appear anyone has actually done enough research to discover if it translates into reality. Remember, EXT4 is MORE than just journaling.

So I'm not sure how much reading you have done, or where you have done it, but until proper testing between EXT2/3/4 has been performed, I'd say it's a bit premature to say "drop EXT4 development", because at this time, it doesn't even appear that XDA has even pierced the skin of the argument yet..
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
Well as usually you don't get it.

I can now say I got 10.000+ that used ext2 and still no issues and basically all saying that its faster then ext4.

Well that's facts.

Also I never sad you should drop the ext4 development. But you must understand there is more filesystem that works well on this phone.

You can ignore this fact like you always do when you are wrong...

**DamianGTO Ultimate OC/UV Kernel.1200MHZ. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Darkys rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] jaju123:
I'm sure that ext 4 non-journal is faster than EXT2 due to speed improvements and journaling being the main cause of the minimal slowdown in the first place. Normal EXT4 may be slower but not by too much anyhow. Doesn't really make that much difference in the end.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
Ext4 has bigger overhead then ext2.

And yes ext4 is still slower.

If you think ext4 is fast then you need to rethink.

Sure you can drop the journal support but it still got metadata.

So you basically make it closer to ext2.

But it still slower.

**DamianGTO Ultimate OC/UV Kernel.1200MHZ. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Darkys rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Auzy:
How do you know that though? Have you tested? Remember, the main performance benefits may only benefit storage with low writing "cost", or which have huge random access penalties.

Which interestingly enough still doesn't prove anything without adequate testing..

To start making SOME sense of the problem

There seems to be a huge emphasis on discussions about the journal. IMHO, that's completely the wrong approach, because we don't know what the typical read:write ratio for users is. If your typical user reads 3000x more than writes, a filesystem which is 1% faster on reading, will overall be faster than one which is even 50% slower for writing on average (mathematics 101).

To actually make some sense I would think (maybe senior developers can confirm):

1) A way should be developed to monitor the amount of reading/writing takes place, have a few people people do it on their phones and collate results. Keep in mind that you would exclude reading/writing of data such as your music collection and such from your PC, because this isn't a typical operation, and provided it doesn't take too long, I'm betting nobody cares about that.. What is important is typical usage (ie. profile the device ).

2) Based on that information, you can then possibly develop a benchmark with a similar profile to your typical users usage.

3) THEN you finally have a benchmark which can be used to test the various filesystems.

It's simply ridiculous going around calling supporters of EXT4 (or vice versa) idiots, or wrong, when we don't even know how users use their phone currently. Doing so might make people sound smart (to themselves), but it doesn't actually prove anything.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] fackamato:
Interesting thread. First, I think we all agree that ext3 isn't better than ext2 or ext4 for our phones. Second, a few links so some "benchmarks":

http://www.delltechcenter.com/page/A+Comparison+of+Ext2,+Ext3+and+Ext4+Performance - ext4 faster in seq. read, ext2 somewhat faster in seq. write.

http://nerdbynature.de/s9y/?129 - tarball extracting. Here ext4 is the fastest, and pretty much so.

http://farbfinal.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/file-system-performance-benchmark-ext4-jfs-xfs-reiserfs/ - simple shell script to copy ~220.000 files (2.4G, Linux /usr content) and delete them again. ext4 wins here again. Note the mount options (oatime,data=writeback,barrier=0,nobh,0 2, and blockdev --setra 16384 on the device).

http://recoverymonkey.org/2010/03/2...-ntfs-ext4-xfs-bfs-scheduler-impact-and-more/ - Another one where ext4 wins. Note that he achieved better results with the deadline scheduler instead of cfq.

What is the default IO scheduler of Android?

Note: None of these benchmarks were run on an Android phone, so we still don't know what the status is there. Perhaps someone can compile iozone or bonnie++ for Android, run it and report back :)

Note2: A journal is nice to have if you need to fsck the fs, takes way less time.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] bilboa1:
just FYI ext2 development has halted many years ago (its just maintained now) whereas ext4 is still being improved from time to time.

that's why ext4 is faster than ext2 in some cases even with journal on (by journal i mean ordered mode)
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
Well you can take test on a PC, but this is a phone.

Also you can use io schedule to tweak what the priorities shall be.

But the fact is that all benchmark test done one the phone is pointing on the same fact. Ext2 is faster. Rts is now almost as fast that ext4 is.

You also got jfs that also is faster then ext4 and that is with journal.

I just think its so funny that some people can't understand that.

**DamianGTO Ultimate OC/UV Kernel.1200MHZ. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Darkys rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Kenneth131:
Hi Guys and gals Iv been messing around with android since it was procured by the big G and consider myself to be a hardcore user of my phone using all features of it daily.

I don't normally chime in on these things however I'm totally unbiased, im only an android fan and user. I Have been flashing roms and kernels since the G1 and I wanted to put my 2p in with this discussion.

Firstly: I think some real hardcore testing needs to be done with ext2 and ext4 on ANDROID.

Secondly: MY personal experience with regards to ext2 and ext4 is that my Galaxy s flys with ext2 but on ext4 can be less smooth at times. the reason I say less smooth in operation is because its not laggy it just doesn't play as nice as if im on ext2 which flows nice all the time for me.

Now I have no idea why this is the case I know about roms however kernels are not my forte but i have experimented with this and it seems consistent that ext2 for me is my preferred file system as it just works.

I am a massive fan of all you guys from rom chefs and Kernel devs + you guys at cyanogen mod amazing. DamianGto man I love your work I think you need to chill though. what we need is productive ideas for proper testing to prove or disprove pros and cons of each system. Not necessarily to say one is better than the other.

Its what XDA is all about, pushing boundaries and working together to come up with something awesome and so far what has been achieved is nothing short of brilliant.

K3nny
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
I.agree on most you say. But you should know that one of these person don't know what he is talking about. He is in every tread about file system and claim no one had tested this. Well it has been done and every day.there is benchmark score that show the same fact.

It he ignore that as unusual.

We that make kernel do test the phone so many times to get some more power out of it and file system is one part.

But there is other things that you can use to balance the read/write ratio and how much the CPU shall prioritize that.

But in the end no file system can beat ext2 in speed. That's the true facts on this phone.

**DamianGTO Ultimate OC/UV Kernel.1200MHZ. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Darkys rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] jimmy080705:
I've been using Linux for a long time. Really the only reason we went from ext2 to ext3 was journalling. Then ext4 Dev was all about addressing limitations with 64bit systems and massive file and San storage sizes and more flexibility. So you are all right to a degree as DEPENDING on what system u r using, type of tasks being performed, size of files being manipulated and kernel settings, ext2 OR ext4 can perform better than eachother.

Answer as said is you need real world benchmarking between the two...
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] el afortunado:
Ok, ok, we get it, Damian, you're in love with ext2. No need to be an ass about it.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
Well I have tried them all.

Yes I do think ext2 is best on this phone. But I would not use it on my computer.

Some do think its the same.

The only way you can test it is with benchmark program and look how the phone feels.

But its alot to think of.

**DamianGTO Ultimate OC/UV Kernel.1200MHZ. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Darkys rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] bilboa1:
can't argue with a kernel specialist. sorry, couldn't resist :p
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] jornbjorn:
Demian: how does this work? You clearly just hears what you want, and ignore the rest. No?

I read your kernel thread from time to time, and there are a lot of people having problems with lost data after using your SUPER SAVE AND PERFECT methods. Ofcourse... u just blame it on something else, like always.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] sinancetinkaya:
What about EXT4 without journaling ?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Birba:
I tested ext2 and ext4 many times. A fact is that on ext4 my phone boots 7 seconds faster than with ext2. Run that 10 times. Thats a real test! Ext2 max be a bit smoother.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] .Slane.:
Where do you see a kernel specialist ? :rolleyes:
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Auzy:
On the other hand though, I would have thought bootup is more about reading, than anything else.. To do a proper test, my thoughts are, you would need to first profile:

1) Bootup (which you'd think is mainly reading)

2) Shutdown (which you'd think is mostly writing)

3) Average usage.. Find the overall ratio for a normal session.

In regards to responsiveness, I can't think of any proper ways to test that.. At least from an I/O point of view, maybe you could record the min/max time a transaction takes?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] bilboa1:
pun at the signature image ;-)
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] phalanger:
Apart from flashing new firmware to it, how often do you really reboot your phone? In normal stable operation the answer should be 'very rarely'.

Speed experienced in actual use is much more important to me, and then there is really no contest, ext2 is much faster.

The only real proven benefit of ext4 is journalling, but im not even so sure thats a big benefit here. All in all ext2 is faster, seems to have less system overhead, probably is easier on the ssd memory.. and it hasnt given me any data loss yet.

Pretty easy choice for me.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Auzy:
In your opinion.. As mentioned, we don't really know
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] zenosteam:
definitely ,ext2 is much faster and stable Now it depends on that costum rom you installed
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] dehem333:
Google chose ext4 , nuff said.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] DamianGto:
And they also use most other file system to.

Samsung use rts and will not change that.

But I guess ours experts here knows so much better then other so they know all about all file system.

Funny they can't put up one single test themselves.

That would be very interesting to see.

**DamianGTO Ultimate OC/UV Kernel.1200MHZ. 350MB Ram. 600HZ. all ext2. Darkys rom. Js5**
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] jornbjorn:
Have you shown any tests?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] dehem333:
Next time , make sure your post makes any sense? I dont understand a single sentence of your english lol:p
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] kikan:
EXT2 is faster on SGS ....

This is the fact !!!!

kikan
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Daneshm90:
Saying something in CAPS w/ !!!! does not make it a fact.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] dupel:
I'm one of the most demanding users on terms of speed you will find. I'll be honest I can't say which fs I prefer.

Ext4nj seems faster on application launch. Ext 2 seems to be faster in apps - scrolling, loading etc.

Launcher pro seems a bit faster in ext4, as do beautiful widgets.

So it comes down to which ever you prefer, I think.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] KMino:
Lets get back to the technical facts and stop the religious debate. Ext 4 does a while lot of things that are not needed on non spinning hard drives and create an overhead that is not needed.

Just because Google (CIA op)uses Ext 4 doesn't make it automatically better. Why not defend RFS, as Samsung the manufacturer choose it?

Happy with Ext 2 here and no problems in the last month. However System is still Ext 4 as am using Speedmod. :)

It's sounding like a global warming debate and it's not conclusive the science. Technical specs, no more religious beliefs :)
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Ivegottheskill:
I thought testing here had shown JFS to be faster than EXT2/3/4, but that ultimately EXT4 was recommended over EXT2/3 and JFS because it's more secure in the way it handles the data (i.e. less likely to lose data if a transfer is interrupted by loss of power etc)
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] nickporwal:
This post of yours shows how much you know about the technical facts to post something here in this thread. Next time just think to whom you are talking before posting such useless junk on this forum.

Damian is a well known dev here on this community and he is contibuting so much. And if he is not comfortable with english then it doesnt mean he is meant to be mocked like this. :mad: His work speaks of his knowledge.

Also if you want to put your point then put it in a sober way rather than talking ****.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Aldonski:
+1.

On topic I think that those that prefer ext4 never tried ext2.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] :
check out this whitepaper about ext4 filesystems

find it here

but this thread is about ext4 on a RAID system ; )

maybe implementing reiserfs would be a nice idea
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] fackamato:
That's not run on a phone so it's IRRELEVANT.

Also, phones don't to much sequential read, rather random IOPS with very small files.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] Auzy:
We aren't the one's calling other people idiots, when they disagree Damian.. Nor are we telling others who are "correct". If you are the one calling other people morons, I think you should have decency to prove why you have the right to do so.

But either way, we don't ACTUALLY know.. but the later link posted comparing EXT2 to EXT4 on Desire is interesting (however, we probably need to run a similar test on Galaxy S to be conclusive).
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] medvedkovo:
Hey guys!

... let's not forget that the journaling system is much more stable because it writes to the memory of all that does, because it loses a bit of speed.

I suggest that EXT2 only use the fast file system partitions such as OneNAND (/ system, / dbdata, / cache), but slower EXT4 apply to MoviNAND (/ data)

Waiting for your opinions.

sorry for the stupid question. What does a Loop sections in the file system...?
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] fackamato:
This post makes no sense.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] dehem333:
Hey , thanks for the advice. Next time I'll just say OK just because he made some kernels(great kernels dont get me wrong). Talking about technical facts , your post is full of it. Nor this whole thread which is full of opinions , no real tests or anything.
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] beer2nd:
May I ask a stupid question?

How can I convert to Ext2?

I'm not sure most kernel support ext2 or not??
[Galaxy S I9000 Android Development] valrond:
Enter recovery (with CWM), and there you can change the filesystem to whatever you want.
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] gammexane:
Hi all, the x10 mini has a widget to turn on/off the data transfer, it is very big... any alternative with the same function?

Thanks in advance.
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] echomac:
Try "data on demand" free from market.
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] Darkbidule:
You can reduce it with the alternative home ADW launcher
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] Manny-:
To download the ADW.launcher which will work on Mini search for 'ADW Donut' and you should see it...
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] gammexane:
I have ADW Launcher. I have reduced the widget but it is really ugly :P
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] Manny-:
Maybe try one like SwitchPro widget, it has a lot of options including data? :)
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] owain94:
use the black version of the widget from the black theme made by pulpoff (correct me if i spelled it wrong :P)

this way it doesn't look so bad with ADW
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] pulpoff:
I use APN ON/OFF Widget from the market, works great and looks good!
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] gammexane:
That is what I was looking for, THANKS!
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] Promet3o:
Extended controls have wifi, 2g, 3g, etc...
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] sridharrn:
Try Green power battery saver

configure it, you don't have to manually do any thing
[Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10 Mini] pongscript:
any one have the apk of that widget? I accidentally deleted it.. sorry.
[EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] pitmanr2003:
How do I do this in cm 6