yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] kasserx:
Where officials where geniuses where engineers a full day before you did not write any comment or solution to my problem give me a chart images to repair the device does not want to put it in the rubbish
[Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General] ChumleyEX:
I'll reply..

Your english makes it hard to really follow what you are saying or asking.

If the keyboard works perfectly before you took it apart and now it doesn't work, sounds like you broke it. Try taking it apart and putting it back together.
[Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cthach11:
I'm using two vibrants. Bluetooth and wifi are both activated. No transfer rate difference. Any ideas?
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
This post is up for discussion

Regarding the "HTC Vision" T-Mobile G2 & the "HTC Vision" HTC Desire Z, right now each one has its own separate subforum

We are talking about the same phone (with slight brand and band differences) over two different subforums. ROMs would be different, but the hardware is the same

DISCUSSION:

- Should the "HTC Vision" G2 & "HTC Vision" Desire Z's subforums better get merged ?

- Could there be more collaboration and cross-information in such case ??

- Have we previously had a symilar experience with another HTC device ??

- Or is it better to keep both phones' android development appart, over separated subforums ??

(and separate other future "HTC Vision" variants too, like the upcomming HTC Vision for Verizon, the ADR6325 aka HTC Merge/Lexikon)

- What's best for development / ROM cooking purposes ??

.
[G2 and Desire Z General] andrewilley:
Absolutely agree. There are many other forums on XDA-Dev where different national and/or carrier variants of the same phone have been grouped together, and this would seem an obvious choice to do the same. Keep the thumbnail from the Desire Z link though, as this is the generic version of the phone and also as the pic shows the keyboard slid out.

I think the name "Vision" is obsolete now anyway isn't it? The official HTC name is now the Desire Z, and the US name for that phone is, at present on one carrier only of course, the T-Mobile G2.

Andre
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
"Vision" is not obsolete, even official ROMs seem to be labeled as "RUU Vision HTC WWE etc..."

Some users @ G2 forums are reporting flashing the Desire Z ROM into the G2

EDIT: up to date only one user

and in the Desire Z forums some users are following the G2's root process

Time will tell for sure, but looks like they are the same phone,

just different radios and badges

.
[G2 and Desire Z General] ericc191:
Should add a poll option. I'm for the merger.
[G2 and Desire Z General] mrvanx:
By TOTAL coincidence I PMed one of the mods last night about this same topic.

I believe his/her intention was to bring it up with the other moderators to see what the deal is, since the G2 and the Z so far as we know only have very slight differences:

Frequency Bands

ROM size

this would fall under the same situation as other devices such as the fuze/touch pro (aka Raphael) (yes I know ROM wasnt different sizes).

If there were serious differences that would cause ROM incompatabilities then sure

"Desire Z Android Development" and "G2 Android Development" sub-fora would do the trick????

But as a device family they are still both a HTC Vision.
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
There @ G2's fora, by now, seems only one person has reported cross-flashing

I don't have a D-Z or G2 to confirm /deny, so

I am eagerly following the G2 forums (and the desire Z's release date :D) for more evidence

I had the same idea initially,

but no poll is required if the hardware is the same

.
[G2 and Desire Z General] svetius:
Our stance in a case like this where there is a USA variant of a phone that is nearly identical to the Euro-spec phone is to still have separate forums. This leads to the least amount of confusion. What would happen (and we've tried this for other devices in the past) is that some people will post their G2 questions (usually T-Mobile specific) in the Desire Z forum, thus requiring the moderators to constantly migrate posts. Also, G2 ROMs won't work on the Desire Z.

For now, we'll keep them separate. If anyone has a major disagreement (now or in the future), please send me a PM.
[G2 and Desire Z General] kholk:
Well, IMHO it's a good decision to have separate sections.

See TMOUS HD2 and Europe HD2.
[G2 and Desire Z General] wywywywy:
Shouldn't it be one general and two development then?

Like X10 Mini and X10 Mini Pro.
[G2 and Desire Z General] kholk:
Yeah, one general and two development sections would be good, but as svetius said, think of it: having operator-specific questions for G2 on DesireZ sections wouldn't be so good.
[G2 and Desire Z General] svetius:
Desire Z is starting to ship. Let's wait a few weeks to see the level of development there is for each device. If needed, we will merge.
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
so... are we going to have yet another forum for BELL users only ??

hmmm...

as svetius stated,

let's see what happens when more of us get our D-Zs,

but lets not close the possibility

.
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
Ponder this for a minute.

The G2 and Desire Z (although not yet in circulation) are very popular devices. By keeping separate forums for each device, your chances of finding accurate information increases, and helps the mods keep the forums cleaner. If the two were combined, I guarantee you that we would receive even more complaints about "noobs" posting in the dev section and creating new threads to ask questions that have already been answered. By keeping separate forums it makes my job keeping Desire Z clean (weeding out these complaints and stopping them from happening) and CaptainKrtek to keep G2 clean.

With that said, would you rather have easy navigation and a clean fora, or would you rather have the two combined, which IMHO, really holds no purpose?
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
I partially agree with you TheROMMistress,

but as a user, I currently have to keep track of BOTH forums, which already duplicates the weed :D :D so I really dunno what to do, what's better

G2 fora is lightyears ahead from us, they've had their G2s for weeks now, and they have progressed a lot on commonly asked Qs (hinges, root, deleting sys files, etc)

The point here is (and I don't have the answer):

Would development benefit from joining efforts between G2 and standard D-Z users ??
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
Yes, I understand they have already made breakthroughs on the G2, but what would be easier for an up-and-coming DZ owner? Weed through all the items in G2 fora or have a fresh start with a relatively new fora? Trust me, Devs will not limit themselves to the DZ fora for info. If there is something out there, they will find it, and incorporate it in DZ forum, you just have to give it some time. In the mean time, SEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
Thank you, Supreme Commander ;)

I am sure Mods and Admins will take the best decission for users and devs

In the meant time, my provider has confirmed they are shipping my D-Z today :D
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
Lol, Damn Skippy! Congrats :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] Pickx:
I definitely support the merger (no good ever came to the Galaxy S phones from having 84934529 separate forums) but give it one-two weeks for all the early adopter hysteria to settle down.
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
It certainly holds its purpose for the HD2.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
I can't see the benefit in keeping things separate. As gtrab said, I too am now keeping track on both sets of forums. Pretty much everything over in ROM development for the G2 is relevant to the DZ. There is going to be an awful lot of duplication over the coming weeks. Either that, or the DZ forums will be quiet with more and more people going over to the G2 side. But if DZ stuff is asked about over on G2, I presume that'll be off-topic. Seems like a mess to me.

I can understand the idea of waiting and seeing how it goes though, just wish the decision was otherwise.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
Well, now we've got permanent root, which is fantastic.

So now there's tons going on in the G2 dev forum, e.g. clockwork recovery, etc, etc. But very little happening over here in DZ land.

We really are missing out by not having the forums merged IMHO.
[G2 and Desire Z General] andrewilley:
Agreed. Someone on the G2 thread said they loaded the DZ ROM onto their rooted G2, but decided to switch back as they didn't much like HTC Sense, so these phones are obviosuly pretty much the same thing under the cover too. The G2 is basically just a branded version of the DZ.

Andre
[G2 and Desire Z General] haensgn:
they need merging

MY info may be wrong or up for debate...lol

I believe that the have the same internal architecture.

What i mean by that is that they are exactly the same phone.

The DZ and G2 have the same nand chip of SEM04G.

That is 4 gigs on both emmc's and both are left roughly with the same space left over after power on.... mystery solved we are working on the SAME machines. may have a difference in partition layout but i am still not convinced of that.

This isn't a 32a/32b dilemma.

Just my two cents.

Also the s-on/s-off pulldown is on the same block? sounds like the partitioning is the same.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
Pretty sure there is a difference in partitioning, but then again partitioning is only a "soft" thing, e.g. you could change the partitioning presumably and make them both identical.
[G2 and Desire Z General] seattleboi1982:
i say merge the forums, as we have other HTC devices with differant procs and memory amounts (i.e. HTC Magic, My Touch 3G, MT3G 3.5) playing nice together.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Pickx:
Another vote for merging.

The Desire Z forum has now become pretty quiet and most of the development is going on in the G2 forums. Merging them would make everything easier.
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
Curiously enough (I'm the OP), after a week with the phone I'm not so sure of a merge...

Different kernels mean everything "G2" is similar but incompatible (thus, dangerous for confused newbies), and has had to be ported or adapted first for use on the DZ (modules, procedures, overclocking, bacon bits, S-OFF... you name it)

I'd say let's wait for more custom ROMs to pop up

If a single ROM proves flashable to all Vision variants, then I'd say OK lets consider merging
[G2 and Desire Z General] Soaa-:
The following is unproven until... proven.

Seems the DZ and G2 are identical except for partitioning. At least one user claims to have turned his or her DZ into a G2, thus being able to flash any G2 ROM.

The differences in kernel modules only lies in the fact that the G2 and DZ are two separate builds of essentially the same thing (except for minor fixes, maybe). Different kernel builds need different module builds.

I think what we should do is write up a guide to turn the DZ into a G2, so everyone can flash the same ROMs.

The above is unproven until... proven.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
Wouldn't it be easier to be merged though, and then when something new is developed, hopefully the devs will be encouraged to provide both G2 and DZ versions together ?

Even within the DZ forum we can be running different ROMs with different kernels, can't we ? So surely the same "issue" exists within the DZ forum anyway, and is no worse in a merged "Vision" forum ?
[G2 and Desire Z General] seattleboi1982:
May i suggest taking a look over at the HTC Magic forums, that should help clear your mind into a merging decision :D
[G2 and Desire Z General] crowstar:
+1 for forum merge, is it confirmed? the desire z forums is a clone of the g2 forums lol :D
[G2 and Desire Z General] schriss:
Not sure about forum merge.

Why for example Beacon Bits were posted in G2 fourm with a note: DOES NOT WORK ON DESIRE Z.

So maybe there should be general "Vision" development forum. Because G2 and Z are different. Something could be prepared to be working on both, or only on one of the two.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
That's not because of a difference in the phones though, it's because one is running G2 ROM/kernel and another a DZ ROM/kernel. But that can easily be changed (e.g. running G2 ROM on DZ). Once we get lots of different ROM versions on the DZ side, then we'll get the same issue of incompatability. I don't see it as a good argument against forum merge.
[G2 and Desire Z General] :
You can run a g2 kernel on the desire z with no problem. The only thing that will mess up is the fmradio, but that is obvious because the g2 has no fmradio enabled in software or in the kernel. I also got bacon bits to run on the g2 rom on my z with normal flashing. The phones are the same and the there is no point in two forums now.

The only difference is the compatability with kernels and rom's. Like bacon bits will not work with a sense rom.. There lies the problem;) so as the phone is the same please merge... The Z forum is dead. ;)

JD

Sent from my HTC Desire Z Beast
[G2 and Desire Z General] schriss:
If you merge you will have to cover all different configurations, I don't think its that easy. It would only work out for complete releases that erase everything on the phone.

Bacon bits is example, won't work for every Vision, depends on Rom. You might have G2 with Desire Z Rom on it for example.

Sent from Desire Z
[G2 and Desire Z General] crowstar:
sorry to the mod of this forum for having to move my post earlier.

However I still believe that the forums need to be merged. As has already been mentioned the desire z and g2 are both htc vision phones, that means the same hardware. Some g2 users have discovered an fm radio transmitter in their g2s again proving there similarity.

The only argument against merging the forums is the fact that the kernels are different. That argument is like saying that the desire should have two sub forums, one for stock and one for sense because the kernels are different in each one. The only difference in the kernels (to my knowledge) is the fact that one has sense and the other doesn't.

Another reason why we need to merge the forums is because both forums are the same! Both have clockworkmod recovery, cyanogen and modaco rom posted twice, the same roms! It is confusing to new users who think 'can I flash this it is in the wrong forum' when most likely they can. Comparing this situation to the 32a vs 32b dilemma is wrong. the 32a and b have different specs and therefore different kernels. It isn't the same. The regular desire forums work well by adding tags like [GSM] and [CDMA] if something is specific only to that phone, there is no reason why that wouldn't work in this case.

If you read all the way to the end thanks!

Think about it.

:D
[G2 and Desire Z General] :
This is very true....

Therefore as long as your running the right kernel with the right rom you will have no problem, because they are the same phone...

JD
[G2 and Desire Z General] st0kes:
I support the merging of the forums.

This is not the same as the HTC Magic where there were essentially 3 versions of the phone, different boards but the same outer casing (one with tiny ram, one with more ram, and one with the 3.5mm headphone jack). The Desire Z and G2 do appear to be the same device, and a G2 kernel WILL work on the Desire Z if the whole rom is flashed on to the phone. The incompatibility between kernels is due to differences between HTC Sense vs generic AOSP roms, not to do with the hardware.

Just my 2 cents :)
[G2 and Desire Z General] blk_jack:
The only valid arguments against a merge would be the emergence of HTC Vision ROMs that require specific T-Mobile G2 or HTC Desire Z *hardware*.

The people arguing about Bacon Bits "not working on the desire" are the very reason why we need to merge and a perfect example of who will benefit the most from having these forums merged. There are even MORE people on the G2 forums who flash the Sense ROM and complain that Bacon Bits doesn't work.

These people need to be educated to the fact that their phones share the ~same hardware as their G2 counterparts and as such can run the same ROMs.

Education through unity!
[G2 and Desire Z General] Soaa-:
+1 for merger.

They are the same phone. All differences are in software. All software can be rewritten.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
Just a reminder, but please do send your thoughts to svetius via PM on this issue, as per post #7 in this thread.
[G2 and Desire Z General] :
Edited

Sent from my HTC Desire Z Beast
[G2 and Desire Z General] :
+ 100

Put wonderfully

Sent from my HTC Desire Z Beast
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
From what I can see, these custom ROMs can be flashed to both the G2 and DZ. And this isn't meant to be an exhaustive list, just examples :

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=836786

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=837390

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=841761

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=841275
[G2 and Desire Z General] schriss:
I'm still on stock ROM and don't feel like changing. But would like to flash kernel or some other bits every now and then. In such case I wouldn't look at merged forum, but Desire Z. How do we deal with such cases?

Sent from Desire Z
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
Why wouldn't you look at a merged forum ? You could still look for new kernels, modules, apps and other stuff on a merged forum just as you could on the DZ forum. You'd get more choice, because you would see stuff that the G2 guys had developed for those running the DZ ROM (plenty of G2 owners want Sense on their phones so want to run the DZ ROM). There would be a bigger chance that when someone developed something cool for a no-Sense ROM, they'd get someone to make sure it worked on a Sense ROM too.
[G2 and Desire Z General] Soaa-:
The bits you're referring to are ROM-specific, not device-specific. Forums are created based on devices, not ROMs.
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
This thread is already at svetius attn. He, as well as the rest of the Admin/Mod team are aware of your request and will handle it as they/we see fit. In the meantime, please be patient.
[G2 and Desire Z General] gtrab:
I started all this fire and now I am against it...

Lets see what happens with crossflashed ROMs and partition first, otherwise we'll get a lot of confused newbies asking for help

EDIT just noticed the list somse posts above...

Sent from my D-Z with EZDZ PURE ROM Upgrade
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
I might have missed something, but the only thing I've picked up so far regarding the slightly different partitioning is that the stock G2 ROM won't flash straight onto a DZ because the system partition is slightly too small. But this has been easily got around in some of the custom ROMs by trimming them down slightly. Vice versa seems to work ok from what I can tell, i.e. a DZ ROM onto a G2. The different partitioning seems to be a very small deal.
[G2 and Desire Z General] CWolfCW:
Um... honestly speaking, unless the G2/DZ threads in either forum make it very clear which version they're talking about (or guaranteed compatability), it's best to keep it seperate at the moment. I'd personally like to see them merged but only after mass clean-up and sorting.

Everyone says they're the same hardware and all but frankly speaking, there are enough minor differences (that could cause potentially big problems) to make it problematic if things aren't clearly labeled after a merger.

One example: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=835971 - That's specific ONLY to the T-Mobile G2 but it's not explicitly written anywhere.

And as we've seen through comments, there are differences between the NA/EU/AP Desire Z as far as hardware/software is concerned. Especially the software. Right now everyone's cross-flash-happy and already you can see various people run into problems.

Merging now without clearing up the specifics will only cause more confusion. Again, this is not to say a merger should not happen - just not right now. The issue is partly due to very few people clearly stating what devices they have tested it on. G2? NADZ? EUDZ? APDZ? Considering the stakes involving potentially bricking your $600 phone, this needs to be addressed imo.

On a side-note, I don't think I've heard of anybody disassembling each phone to actually check if the hardware is identical - seems to be based on assumption only atm. Maybe I'm just paranoid/anal-retentive. Haha....

Also, it just occurred to me, the longer the wait to clean-up/sort/merge, the harder it's going to be given the speed of development now and frequency of new posts and such.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
If (when ?) the forums are merged, it should be pretty easy for a moderator to simply add a tag of "G2" or "DZ" to show where a thread has come from, and possibly a note to the top of the first posting. It's only really the dev forum where this is likely to be an issue, and that has a lot less posts than all the other sub-forums put together.

An alternative would be to start a new, *empty*, merged forum. Then new posts could be made there with rules saying you have to be specific about which phone you're talking about. If both G2 users and DZ users are on that forum, then they're going to ask anyway, if it's not specified.

Right now it's already possible for people from one forum to go to the "other" one and try flashing something, it's happening already. No use sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that problem is going to go away IMHO. If the forums were merged there would be much more incentive for everyone in the dev forum to make sure stuff works on both phones.
[G2 and Desire Z General] lsxrx7:
someone should just make a post about how to convert the DZ partition / everything else to the G2

and we can merge the 2 forums
[G2 and Desire Z General] TheRomMistress:
Yes, that would be simple to just "tag" the items, however, we do not all own or use G2's or DZ's and if a thread is not properly labled, then it could be difficult to differentiate weather or not something works with G2 or DZ. Thus creating a whole new round of issues. Not to mention, keeping up with such a thing would be quite time consuming.

I open every thread that has new posts in it and doing that alone can take hrs at times. Say the mod goes on vacation and the tags are not consistently added, then what?

As for a new forum, starting from scratch, that would really irritate a lot of ppl who put hard work into creating the existing threads. Not to mention, how many N:confused::confused:bs or even seniors read the rules? It would be very easy for your suggestions to go amiss.
[G2 and Desire Z General] steviewevie:
What I meant was that a lot of the existing posts would be able to be copied straight over, i.e. those ones that already cater for both phones. Or modified by one of the members as appropriate (we're talking about pretty minor differences here).

I was only suggesting that for the existing threads before a merge, to make it clear which forum they came from. New threads wouldn't need tagging.

The thing is, we already have threads within the G2 forum that don't make it clear which *ROMs* they might work with, and threads within the DZ forum that don't make it clear which ROMs they work with either.

There are already different ROM versions, different kernel versions etc, and those are managed ok within the respective G2 and DZ forums. So why can't the very slight differences between the two phones as stock (software) be managed just as well within a merged forum ? Any difference between the phones is probably a lot less of an issue than differences between a DZ running ROM "A" and a DZ running ROM "B".
[G2 and Desire Z General] petard:
Merge the forums already. These two phones are the same device. Custom ROMs should work on either one.

It's annoying having to look at both forums for things that work on my one device.
[G2 and Desire Z General] tijuanacartel:
Merge, at least the dev forum.