yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
Suing a billion dollar company is not kid-like at all. Whining about it on an internet forum is, but going to court is very much an adult activity.

And it may be a shock to your world of gilded rainbows, but civil lawsuits, and particularly class actions, were created for this very reason, which is to punish and deter companies from taking advantage of consumers this way. Without class actions, no one would bother to sue Samsung individually for a non-working GPS. But put a million customers together in one suit, and all of a sudden Samsung gets the message.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
Oh, and finally, it wouldn't surprise me if TMobile and the other carriers were named in this suit too. They've certainly had a hand in developing the final hardware, so they couldn't have been unaware of the GPS issue.
[Vibrant General] kizer:
If the basis of the suit is a working GPS then you are all blind and dumb. From day one the GPS has worked. Just because its 100 feet off doesn't mean it doesn't work. Not working means you turn it on and it doesn't report back anything.

From day one my GPS has been all over the place, but 0-100 feet is a working GPS. If your saying the accuracy of the GPS is the problem then thats another issue all together, but if they have not stated the GPS is accurate within 10Feet then there is no basis of a suit.

A car advertised to get an average of 25miles per gallon, but only really gets 10 is grounds for suit until they take that car to a lab and prove it does.

They are only liable if like mentioned before they do something with intent or falsly mislead. They promised a fix and even gave out an approximate time frame.

The problem with America is everybody is freaking sue happy. Lady spills hot coffee on her self in the drive thru at McDonalds and gets millions simply because the cup didn't read "Warning Hot". Give me a freaking break.

Flashing a rom to get a more accurate GPS is not a big deal and if you say you shouldn't have to then well wait like the rest of the people. My question is why are you here on xda. The average user doesn't even know of this site and more than likely would be sitting at home complaining about a GPS problem when they could simply fix it themselves or be patient knowing they where told around September.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
I think experiences vary. 90% of the time I cannot get a lock. At all. The other 10% I can get a tenuous lock after about 2 minutes of trying.

Other people have had perfectly functioning GPS's and still others are like you, it works but not perfectly.

So maybe you should refrain from calling us blind or dumb. Especially in light of this gem:

Lady spills hot coffee on her self in the drive thru at McDonalds and gets millions simply because the cup didn't read "Warning Hot". Give me a freaking break.

Do you know anything about that case? Or are you just another douchebag ignorantly spouting off when you don't know the facts?

/edit Oh, and this bit: They are only liable if like mentioned before they do something with intent or falsly mislead. That's also wrong. Intent is an element of fraud, but a company can also be liable for a defective product, even if the defect is unintentional or undiscovered before it ships.

Now that I'm going back over your post, I'm struck by how you managed to get almost everything wrong. It's like a new record.
[Vibrant General] s15274n:
Just to entertain the idea (which I find f'ing absurd):

By the lawsuit, it implies samsung advertised something that it does not do... can anyone show me the advertisement?

Or, is it implied because it has google and gps? Even if this were valid (which it is not), how can they prove this was advertised?
[Vibrant General] asmodyus:
First your I would say that your wrong when it takes 15 minutes or more to lock on a location with what 1000 meters I would consider not working. But you are right America is sue happy but I also believe that the average American consumer is dumb and does not research a product before the purchase or just does not care enough.

Because If that was true anybody who would want to buy the vibrant for for a smart phone with GPS would know not to buy it because everywhere on the internet there is some site stating that the gps is broken or does not work to expectations. which in turn would think to hinder the sell of the product which it has not. So either A. people really do not care about the GPS. B. Did not research product before buying. C. Just plain dumb.

Now I also think it is bad practice for a company to sell a product that has defect and is not working as intended. and should pull the line of product. but this is America and there no such thing as fair or ethical markets.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
Are you telling me that you've never seen a Vibrant ad that advertised GPS as a feature? Just go to Samsung's website. Or T-Mobile's. They both advertise the Vibrant as having GPS. And when I say "having GPS," I think the reasonable man standard would find that it implies a working GPS.

FYI, I'm not planning to opt into any lawsuit. I'd read about the potential GPS issue before I bought the phone, so I knew what I was getting into. But I have no issue with others feeling like they were misled if they bought the phone not knowing that the GPS could be borked. T-Mobile and Samsung should have issued a disclaimer that GPS functionality may or may not be hobbled and that a fix is coming. Absent that, I think the potential plaintiffs have a valid case.
[Vibrant General] Elite GunnerX:
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SGH-T959ZKATMB-features

http://galaxy-s.t-mobile.com/samsung-android-galaxy-phone

I dont understand what people dont like about the lawsuit????:confused:

They said it has GPS but it does not work...In my eyes thats false advertising is it not???

Someone explain please...

Note: I personally dont care about gps or use it but the court system was set up for stuff like this...
[Vibrant General] s15274n:
^ both of those links have the word "GPS" ONE TIME... "gps capable" and "gps navigation"

Well, check and check, my phone does both of those.

So, where is the false advertising?
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
I don't think we can say with any degree of certainty whether my experience is the norm or not. Only Samsung and perhaps the carriers know for certain the breakdown on numbers re broken GPSs. But then again, even they may not know how many handsets are affected. One great thing about a class action is that we'll find out those numbers.

As for whether a sub-optimal GPS is grounds for a class-action suit, it depends. If by "sub-optimal" we mean a GPS that takes a bit longer and is not as accurate, then it may just be an annoyance that doesn't materially affect the user's enjoyment of the phone. On the other hand, you could argue that even a "sub-optimal" GPS is effectively inoperable if the intended use is turn-by-turn navigation or geocaching, etc.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
Dude, okay, we get it. Your phone does both of those. Many phones don't. Only you own your phone; the rest of us don't.
[Vibrant General] Tpavey:
When I map with wireless my phone doesn't update and it shows my location as a place I was 8 hours ago. When I turn on my gps it places my a mile away. Seems pretty broken to me. I would be okay with 100 feet.
[Vibrant General] s15274n:
^^ no, you don't get it.... every one of our phones have gps capability. That is what they advertised... so, again I ask, where is the basis of the proposed lawsuit? Did Samsung advertise something that the phone does not do?

Hint:

No, it did not.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
That's like saying a car without working AC is okay because it has AC capability. Seriously, your argument would get laughed out of court. If the bluetooth didn't work, would you be okay because it still has a bluetooth radio and therefore bluetooth capability?

In any case, if you go to the T-Mobile product page for the Vibrant, it says "GPS with Navigation Capability." Not sure how you could look at that and say "Hey it still has a GPS chipset even if it doesn't work!"

And finally, you seem to be under the misapprehension that everyone's GPS is working fine. Anecdotally, at least, many people's GPSs aren't working at all or are working so poorly that they may as well not work at all.
[Vibrant General] vaughnsphotoart:
I think this is a good idea

Since I bought this phone in July, I haven't been able to use it for:

Geocaching

Finding waypoints (in my case, waterfalls I intend to photograph)

Making track logs of outdoor kayaking and hiking excursions

Driving navigation

I'm tied to a multi-year contract on a device that I bought (in part) because it specifically included GPS abilities. I am a heavy user of GPS and mapping, and I'm pretty torqued that after being told in July that they were aware of the problem, it's still not fixed.

I provided my info to the law firm.
[Vibrant General] demo23019:
LMAO at anyone who thinks they have a case and could actually beat samsung who have unlimited amount of money and top Lawyers on retainer that would just keep fighting you in court till your pockets were empty seriously have to be an idiot or some greedy/sap looking to try to get rich quick.

I think you might have a case if the GPS is a failed piece of hardware like the title to this topic claims and they dont do a recall.

But the fact its not a defective it actually works perfectly fine with new leaked and soon to be released firmware :rolleyes:
[Vibrant General] rel500:
some of you are extremely bitter in this forum... i for one like this idea, light some fire under Samsungs ass and maybe they will do something for us.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
Um, it's a plaintiff-side class action. No one's pockets are going to empty except for the plaintiffs' attorneys, who in this case are not exactly ambulance chasers. Yeah, Lieff Cabraser goes toe to toe with the best litigation defense firms all the time, so I doubt they're overawed by Samsung.

And yes, it is defective if the specified function isn't working. Again, the standard here isn't whether there's potentiality for functioning GPS. I don't recall seeing any asterisks or disclaimers saying "GPS currently inoperable in some units but will become functional under future software updates."

You know, I don't know why some people are so angry over this. If your unit works fine, great. If you're okay with the GPS not working (like me), great. But if you want to sue Samsung and T-Mobile for selling you a defective product, I don't see why people would get so angry on behalf of Samsung over that.

These laws exist for a reason. If such mechanisms didn't exist, corps could get away with all kinds of small fraud and bad practices by reasoning that the problem was so de minimus that no single user would ever care to raise a ruckus. Class actions allow large numbers of people to sue over issues that no single plaintiff would reasonably care to litigate.

Just running the numbers in my head, I'm doubtful that Samsung is going to feel any major financial pain over such a lawsuit. Even if a million units are affected, what's the maximum value of a potential payout, maybe $20 per unit? But the key is that it would put a big black eye Samsung's rep, especially if the plaintiffs' attorneys do the PR right.
[Vibrant General] trashcan:
yeah.. how about a class action on Obama too..becasue he didn't deliver what he promised....ppl...think smart...every product has it's goods and bads...u don't like it...go ebay it or craigslist it.
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
Yeah... because a politician's promises are actionable under consumer protection laws... .

Or... you could opt in to the class action. Why are your panties in such a twist over this? Why do you possibly give a crap what other people do about their GPS issue?
[Vibrant General] demo23019:
I dont get why these people are even in a developer site if the have no plans on unlocking, tweaking, installing fixes...ect.

It has nothing to do with XDA go complain somewhere else

XDA has guys contributing and helping out fellow members for free

Its kind of ignorant and disrespectful

and lol @ Kubernetes

im done with this thread
[Vibrant General] Kubernetes:
What are you, the forum police? XDA is for enthusiasts too. And for months people have been working on the GPS issue and there's been no fix until the leaked ROM. Regardless, it's a topic that is rather germane to the Vibrant and the GPS issue, so I don't see where you get off calling it ignorant and disrespectful for people to discuss it. If you don't like it, GTFO and quit *****ing.

As for your snark, I can't help it. Ever been in a science-related discussion and watch all the scientists get exasperated at the ignorance being bandied about? Well, I'm a lawyer, so when people start spouting a bunch of nonsense, I get a strange compulsion to jump in.

I'm sorry that you decided to jump in with an oversized suitcase of ignorance, but it is what it is.
[Vibrant General] Tpavey:
The issue is that many people signed a contract and spent money on a device and they cannot use it as advertised. Those people can try to ebay the device then spend full money on a phone that actually does work, but they shouldn't have to.

As I said before, t-mobile should honor returns and tell samsung they won't take devices that are broken anymore. Individuals have no power to make a difference.

The worst thing that can happen is nothing. The consumer should get what is advertised. If the company cannot fulfill what is advertised on the box, they should refund the consumer. If they fail to refund the consumer then they should get sued.
[Vibrant General] okolowicz:
Speaking as a lawyer... this is why people hate lawyers.
[Vibrant General] larryccf:
you don't know how the game is played obviously

my company just went thru a lawsuit - we were the defendant over a trademark issue - lawsuit was totally bogus (i could spend pages but easiest basis for that stmt right now is that the term was not eligible for Tm registration) but that was not important. Found out the bottom feeder law firm repping the plaintiff had sued 11 other defendants, and after making them spend $100-200K, would then approach them for settlement. In most cases the other defendants (like my company) had ceased using the Tm or term art years ago) - because they had ceased using it, it wasnt important to them but they put 3 individuals into bankruptcy over this. reason they sued was to eliminate them from ever being able to using again -

our atty filed with the court, a statment indicating the plaintiffs were demonstrating and practicing a pattern & scheme of extortion, that by the threat of litigation or by the weight of actual litigation, forcing valid users of the mark to surrendering their rights to the mark, thereby further validating an invalid trademark. In each settlement (very few involved financial payment to the plaintiff) the defendant signed off on a stmt that they promised to not use the Tm again, and to never participate in any cancelation proceeding.

we went $330K in lawsuit costs - they never approached asking for settlement - they saw my company's national advertising and assumed Brink's trucks left here every friday overloaded with cash.

In the interim we funded the orginial designer of the device that the Tm was used on, in filing a cancelation proceeding at the US Patent Trademark office - as the original designer and first user of the device, he was prepared to demonstrate to the USPTO that the device functioned by means of the word in the Tm which invalidates the Tm registration. He also had sold or supplied the plaintiff's father with the devices and we had invoices proving that.

right now we're in negotiations to recover our costs in exchange for signing off on the Tm.

Point is it's not who's right, but who can outspend the other -

our case went as far as it did cause we knew we had the case won but, btw, the $330K spent - we never got out of discovery. Never got near the facts of the case.

all the attorneys filing against samsung have got to do is demonatrate a case that isn't too farfetched, and the willingness to take it all the way. sammy is advised this case could cost $3-5 million to defend, and there's the possibility they'll lose, it's smarter to settle now for $10 mil and put it behind them

that's an abbreviated version but you get the point
[Vibrant General] trashcan:
unless a lawyer know it's a sure win and can make a huge $$ out of this or you won't able to see any class action coming. Okolowize, you want to take this case free of charge?:D
[Vibrant General] heygrl:
This class action & firm can kiss my ass. I want a fix but I don't want to pad these fools pockets in the process.
[Vibrant General] Breach:
My GPS functions perfectly, but I do understand peoples frustration if theirs do not.

Calling someone a troll or money hungry for being interested in a class action against a company that still hasn't released a software fix, which should have been released immediately after finding the issue, is rather rude.

To those defending Samsung, if a company sells you a new vehicle with a high performance engine, you expect it to function as well as any other high performance engine on the market. If there is a problem with a sensor which caused the engine to run sub-par, the company would be required to immediately make available a replacement part to fix the issue or legal action could be taken against them.

The whole case of "Doing research prior to buying the phone" is mute. If the company tells you the phone has GPS a reasonable person should be able to safely assume it works as well as other compairible GPS devices on the market. The comparison with iPhones antenna is also mute, because they did offer a fix or some sort.

The consumer can not 'talk' to Samsung. We are just one small sale and they do not care what we think. A class action is the only way to get a company's attention. Even if the class action fails, it still gets the company's attention. It is a way to have your voice heard. If you are happy with your product, as I am, just sit back and don't fret about it. If you're not happy, I understand you consideration of the class action.
[Vibrant General] qreffie:
Real or fake, I kind of wish there was some sort of suit. Thousands of people have stock Vibrants with crippled gps and don't know how to make any mods to their phones to fix the issue. Their only hope is an ota update that hasn't come for months, meanwhile my friend's Epic has gotten 2 ota updates already. Samsung and T-mobile at the very least owe us phones that do what they were advertised to be able to do. The common user shouldn't have to learn how to modify their phone and flash something from a leaked update just to give it the basic functionality it should have had out of the box.
[Vibrant General] Tpavey:
Better to pad the pockets of Samsung execs by accepting products that don't function as advertised? Someone is getting money. If I had my choice it would be the engineers and assembly line folks. If I'm forced to chose between overpaid execs and overpaid lawyers it will depend on how honest I think the company is.
[Vibrant General] rjwisniewski:
Samsung has said they are working on a fix, so why should T-Mobile return the phone? Wait it out, then if you don't get your fix complain. Otherwise, have some milk and cookies.

Seriously, it's not that bad people. You want a GPS, buy a GPS. You want a phone, buy a phone. Yes, it has the capability, but it is not a stand-alone device. Should they fix it, yes! Will they? Hopefully. Until then, let's stop going after each other.
[Vibrant General] :
Are you a lawyer?

Hint:

You are not.

You do not know the grounds of the lawsuit. False advertising is not the only conceivable grounds for filing a class action. Did AT&T advertise their service with a pro-rated ETF? No. Did they still get (successfully) sued? Yes.
[Vibrant General] rjwisniewski:
Yet again... so, is this for money or for an actual fix? Because it seems like more people just wanna sue Samsung to sue them. Sure, you could say this was gonna "light a fire" and make them work faster, but what if they just push another ****ty fix out because of this?
[Vibrant General] :
I really have no idea what their intent is. A reasonable settlement from such a suit would be something along the lines of requiring Samsung to honor returns of the phones until they had produced a working fix for the GPS (at least as far as the consumer went. Any settlement would likely also include legal fees as well).
[Vibrant General] heygrl:
We all know how quick Class Action lawsuits are. That's why you're going this route right? Lawyers aren't money hungry! Especially the ones that go after big companies. Nonsense I tell you.
[Vibrant General] spacecasespiff:
This lawsuit is stupid you all are money hungry and I should sue all of you for sucking up all of my air. Moderator please end this. Its just plain stupid.
[Vibrant General] :
That's true, people go to law school because they want to make money, much like people in the following fields:

- Business

- Medicine

- Software Development

- Cellular Phone Manufacturing

and let's not forget

- Every other field

Do you work for free? No? Me neither.
[Vibrant General] speoples20:
True people want to make money but lawyers (some not all) make money off of peoples misfortunes. They are like sharks, some blood is in the water and they are all over it.
[Vibrant General] Droidicus:
FWIW, I am an attorney and find all this ignorant babble amusing. If you don't know what you are talking about please leave it to the professionals. In that vein, I submitted my information to the firm because in the REAL world this is how it works. Does anyone doubt that the threat of lawsuits made Apple actually ADMIT a flaw in their magical device? A$$hole companies ONLY act when money is involved. This will NEVER go to court! Lol. But, it may in fact motivate Samsung to provide better service to their customers. Period.
[Vibrant General] speoples20:
See the difference is Apple said there was no problem. Samsung on the other hand has acknowledge the issue and is taking steps to fix it.
[Vibrant General] larryccf:
yeah but it's only in law that they can ruin lives, careers, familys' life savings and act like they're honorable

trust me on this - the lawsuit my company faced, the shocker was in finding out that "under the american rule of law" if we prevail, which we felt certain we would as the facts were not to the plaintiff's benefit, the courts expect both parties to swallow their own legal costs. think about it, if a lawsuit is weak, lawyers for plaintiff & plaintiffs are encouraged to file as their clients costs will be limited to their side's costs. If, as our atty explained it, under world court or other than american rule of law rules applied, the party filing the weak lawsuit would have to re-imburse the defendant costs of defense.

luckily, our digging up the original designer of the device made all the difference in our lawsuit but that was pure luck that he was even still alive, much less as alert as he is and still had the records he had from the late 60s.
[Vibrant General] secularhuman:
Does this mean I'm not a Troll?

like the early responders said?

I never thought this would cause such an uproar.

I just wanted to light a fire under Samsung.
[Vibrant General] rjwisniewski:
At least you think reasonably and would want something like returns and a fix. I have no argument with that. Especially if they can't provide a fix within a reasonable amount of time. However, I still think were in September and they are within their timeframe.

Sent from my Samsung Vibrant using the XDA app.
[Vibrant General] boomerbubba:
Actually, most of them were trolls.
[Vibrant General] ELStiko:
Question? Would a class action lawsuit result in a much longer delay in the release of any updates? If they do take it to court, that would mean they will draw out to see what the outcome is before they are forced to put out a fix. If they do go trial, would we expect to even see an update within the life of our phone?