yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S I9000 General] AllGamer:
the GPS on the SGS works fine offline

i don't even have data on when going on long road trips

you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Idan73:
Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TriC_101:
Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin :D
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TriC_101:
LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
I'll try it.

I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.

After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.

I'll hang on.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.

So no fix for me.

The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset

If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably

What is your awareness based on?

LOL... Lets put things in perspective :

1) Wich car navigation software do you use

2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?

3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????

Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TriC_101:
Odd.. I know with the Canadian JH2 firmware I can get a lock on anything over 20.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TriC_101:
I can take the SIM card out of my phone and USE the GPS and maps just fine with a 3rd party GPS app installed on the phone.. and it works just as good as a TOM TOM and its not using any data.. just a GPS fix..

Beside if you have a data plan why not use it... its great with Google maps cause it lets you know if their is traffic jams ahead.. and you can't do that without data.. The amount of data that Google navigation uses its so little.. I went 800km one time and it used less then 20meg for the trip.. and Google Navigation let me know there was a trafic jam ahead and I re-routed around it saving me time.. you can't do that with a TOM TOM and just a GPS fix.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
LOL... just as I suspected and just before going to bed....

One more lesson for you and I have it on my Clarion Map680:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_Message_Channel
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TriC_101:
man... this is not a free.. it even says on the wiki page.. "These services are both subscription"

This Thread is pointless. there is no GPS scam..
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Idan73:
lol now you look like a copy paste king. proud? don't want to say domass but pretty thick-skulled. if you had just read the information carefully and applied some common sense instead of just arguing for the sake of argument.

now the answers to your questions to me:

1) Wich car navigation software do you use

google all the way, but ndrive downloaded just for this post

2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?

wireless networks is not a-gps(in location and security), repeat IS NOT. it is separate. get it through your thick skull. in android you dont have option to turn off agps like in nokia for example. the only way it is not used is if the data is disabled. if i had previous lock then disable wireless and also turn off data by changing apn average 5 seconds. if i restart the phone then about 20 seconds. if i had waited a week or mooved some distance then would be about minute.

3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????

Yes!

meaning car lighter plug, now power charging ports (seems newer generation does not realize that was their primary purpose up until a few years back when smoking became taboo and with the advent of electric gadgets that primary use changed) where you plug in the charger provided you have one and keep bt gps permanently connected rather than not using it and having to carry it with you into the house after about 8 hours of use to recharge.

"So many of you are saying that you GS is getting a fix after a cold start in around a minute with wireless networks UNchecked!!

It means that your GS got a better gps chipset that SirfstarIII

I dont know whats better your GS or the drugs you guys are taking"-this one is for all that dont share your view but here is your answer:

"though newer GPS units may require much less than this" including sirf III and sgs and most other that take about minute.

now while i believe samsung dropped the ball with gps implementation on sgs (actually disappointed after seeing what they achieved with gps on i8910) for some of you (i personally seem to have pretty good unit in that regard much better that what some of you report), got involved into this conversation (i don't know why maybe cause i saw for the 100th time people mistakenly refer to wireless location in settings as agps. look at it this way agps assists the hardware unit get lock faster by downloading satellite data and position faster whereas wireless location in settings can and is operating independently from hardware unit and has no bearing on the lock speed in theory at least. samsung software bugs notwithstanding ).

regrettably seems you'll Wikipedia everyone into submission and i give up right now.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] lgkahn:
i do all the time.. i ont the the a-gps called ms-assisted in the sgs because i belive the stupid phone uses it when it mometarily looses sattelite lock for a few secs. and causes more jumping around.. i have it turned off. and i always use cold start mode. takes a little longer for an initial fix.. maybe 10-15 secs.. but if you really want to try something leave hot start on and try flying to a diff. time zone and getting a fix.. it wont.. (another bug) tried for over a hour previously.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] andrewluecke:
You sire, might be right about warm/cold starts, but you don't seem to understand that AGPS is a suplement to GPS, and is used to help improve initial fixes. Our phone seems perfectly capable of finding satellites without it.

The Test

This is in JM1, on a GT-i9000.

Testing methodology:

- removed the APN

- disabled wifi

- Confirmed that there is no internet access (and therefore, no way to use A-GPS, because here in Australia, we don't have WAAS either)

- Disable "use wireless networks in Location/security"

- Enable Use GPS satellites in location/security"

- Rebooted phone

- Loaded up GPS status. Pulled out timer..

- Dumped location into Google earth on the computer.

Results:

In 90 seconds, GPS status showed a lock within 10m, which is approximately the same length of time I get from my Forerunner 305. In another minute, when I looked again, it had 5m. I haven't used my GPS for a week now either.. There is no scam or conspiracy. The algorithms probably just need better tweaking. I'm not even using recent firmware...

And yes, I am well aware that whilst people such as yourself hear the word "sirfStarIII" and get weak at the knees, but that chipset is actually older than 3 years now. Do you honestly think that they employ patented voodoo which can't be used by other companies?

This reminds me of the debacle with Winmodems (software based) and hardware modems years back. When the drivers are ready, GPS which relies on software can perform as well, or better than exclusive hardware solutions (because upgrading them is easier). Probably the reason they work so well is that they are self-contained, so since the drivers are easier, they tend to work better initially. Either way, I'd say I've proven we can get a lock without AGPS... I haven't proven that the tracks require it, but we have to see what Samsung does with the firmware before doing that anyway.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xan:
Miki4242, right as always.

betoNL dont be so smart to give lessons in that way to people of xda, u will regret that.

Who do you think you are?

We all here to discuss, share knowledge and learn, but you certainly missed the spirit.

Ad rem:

Anybody outside north america could get gps lock indoors?

Maybe it's region related?

Because no matter how I set my SGS, cant get any lock more than 0,5-1m from window.

Tric_101 Thanks for your effort put into convincing me it was possible :) Didnt see that in europe... But I dont have much experience.

My test:

-data off

-wifi off

-cold start

-standalone mode

-deleted gps data

-GPStest from market

I got 10m lock in around 5 minutes.

Changed cold start to hot:

I got lock under 20 secs (still no data/wifi...)

Changed Standalone to MS-assisted, data on, wifi off:

Lock under 10-15 secs.

All tests done outdoors during beautiful, sunny weather. Usually 7-8 stas in sight.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] bilboa1:
What annoys me most:

when it gets the lock, sometimes fast btw, it's not very reliable.

sometimes it drops the lock and automatically continue on the same path until locked again. it shouldn't drop so easily also, from 10 sats to zero, clear sky etc.. might be the gpsd segfaults and is restarted (?)

the other thing is, when i stop, it often still has lock and shows for example 25 km/h. then i start driving again and it shows 0km/h for 3-4s then shows again my correct speed

it looks like there's a delay somewhere, or another kind of software bug

if both were fixed i would be very satisfied with the performance however
[Galaxy S I9000 General] marty1976:
@bilboa1: I agree, good posting.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TMReuffurth:
Try out Tracker Booster from market for this problem. Works very nice on my SGS.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] bilboa1:
Does it really solves it? I thought the GPS was always on once you turn it on manually.

TrackerBooster says:

Tracker Booster is a small utility to help sports tracker applications (e.g. Endomondo) to get best possible GPS signal by keeping the GPS unit active in the background. Some phones have problems using e.g. Endomondo while not getting accurate GPS location info. Without and with Tracker Booster result images attached.

V1.1.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TMReuffurth:
For me it really works great. Don´t know what this app really does, but it "smoothes" the tracking. it´s not only for Sport tracker apps. You can use it for every Navigation App.

Just test for example My Tracks with Tracker Booster and than without.

Edit: i think the gps doesn´t loose the satelites when using this app so easely.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] bilboa1:
i'm giving it a try going back home in a couple of hours

we shall see :)

thanks
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Kilack:
The new 5 inch xxl models from Tomtom use the bcm4750 and it is very accurate just as good as my navigator using a sirfstar.

Of course the sgs isn't using 4750, its using the 4751 which should be better in theory but so far isn't proving to be but we still don't know if its a driver issue or a hardware issue :(.

We really need to see another device come out with the 4751...
[Galaxy S I9000 General] ^Sbk79^:
Would you marry me? Jokes apart, Yesterday I was driving whilst using maps and noticed that the blue accuracy circle (around the blue arrow) was changing size continuously and for no apparent reason.

This morning I checked with GPS Test and, even if the fix was as fast as usal, fix was lost from time to time and re-gained in a few seconds. And I mean from 5-6 satellites in use to 0 in a second (the phone was near the windows and ther was no apparent reason for this loss of signal).

Now, with tracker booster everything seems to work better. No more total loss of signal, at least. I will test this with maps this evening while going back home. It seems that this software hinhibits some sort of power saving feature constantly polling GPS. I'll keep on testing this app.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] TMReuffurth:
Nice to hear that it works for you too. A lot of people in other forums say that it works for them too. This is why i wonder that almost no one knows about this app.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] bilboa1:
I did the test with tracker booster but unfortunately that doesn't really fix things.

There's no spike in my track, it's smooth but...

- gps still lose satellites from time to time (all of them at once), except that instead of showing a weird spike on the map it just looks like i wasnt exactly on the track for a moment. looks nicer, but doesn't fix the real issue, because i don't really care of the tracks after i went through them, but the real time navigation.

- the gps delay between my movement and display is average 6s (i counted many times, from 20km to 0km). 6s are not a wild guess, i timed them every time, 6s are a long time for a gps. way too long for navigation! - happens with every gps software of course, i tested quite a few in case

i think the issue lies in gpsd somehow. whatever its doing, it's doing it wrong ;)

ps: due to the smoothing i suggest you try some gps software showing the number of satelites live or you won't see if it loses the lock on maps
[Galaxy S I9000 General] marty1976:
There are three modes of operation in a GPSr: Cold start, warm start, hot start.

Garmin even uses 4 modes of operation, it all depends on the data already available in your GPSr (time, position, almanac, ephemeris).

I had really good results with these settings, please try them and report if your experience using GPS gets better:

Open LbsTestMode menu. Set these application settings:

Tracking

S/W

Standalone

Hot Start

ON

ON

50

OFF

OFF

In menu SUPL/CP set this:

Custom Config

supl.google.com

7276

off

supl

Then press "delete GPS data". In good weather conditions, your very first fix will take some time (being a cold start), but subsequent fixes will only take up to a minute (hot start).

Marty
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
I looked up my settings.

All these settings are already set like you posted them. I assume they are standard settings.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] marty1976:
AFAIK in JF3 they were different, perhaps these are the standard settings since JM1?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
That could be, yes.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
These settings are standard on JPH wich I have and probably on JPK too.

They are not really relevant for me since I use a external gps receiver and get offline navigation progs like Sygic and iGo connected to them via bluetooth gps mouse app.

BUT..... you are right about those fixes!!! I have been able to run those offline navigation programs (just short drives) WITHOUT the external gps rec. that means no assist whatsover (a-gps. external receiver, etc.)

I also have been able to accelerate a fix during a cold start(again offline), using a very nice free app: turbo GPS http://nl.androlib.com/android.application.tpgs-v1-jpCnj.aspx.....The debug setting (reload storage) on that really helps...

And dont forget...open air

That means that my "exagerated" suspicion "a-gps scam" is nothing more than that- an overreaction, BUT (another but), the internal gps receiver doesnt have more than 10 channels( I'm almost sure), therefore I will always have the external gps receiver as backup as other users will have a-gps...

Btw, do you use any other car navigation software besides google maps?

Did you try navigate on them rellying only on the build-in GPSr?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
I use Copilot with the built in GPS for fine most of the time.

Sometimes the internal GPS thinks I'm driving on an parallel road, but then snaps back to the correct road again.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
Ps.- Many thanks to 3rd party developers like the makers od gps bluetooth mouse unlimited, turbo GPS and many others (still gotta try that app- GPS Provider)..
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xan:
Well you state it doesnt have more than 10 channels... And what is your assumption based on?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
Because i have been testing it in all kind of conditions in the last 3 days and the best viewing I got threw various apps. like Turbo GPS, GPS Info, GPS status, gps test, toolbox etc., was 9 satellites.

But just now I read on another thread somebody was viewing 11, so it probably got 12 channels...

If it is the Quallcom gpsOne chipset ...well still not clear how many channels it got..
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xan:
Wrong assumption. I dont know how many channels it got, but this is no way to measure it.

There are 30 sats around the globe in total.

Again, 30 sats globally.

GPS is designed to have 8 at least sats visible from any place on earth (not sure about north/south pole).

Of course you cant have a sat visible if its hidden behind 'earth curve'.

Visible sats count varies from 8 to 10 here, in Poland. I doubt its any different in NL.

Sorry m8, your thinking is not correct.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
It has a Broadcom BCm 4751 GPS receiver built in:

http://www.phonewreck.com/2010/08/19/samsung-galaxy-s-teardown/

Phonewreck did analyze it
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xan:
Cant find the info about channel number.. its quite irrelevant anyway.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
Well, I know you are wrong and I don't even have to throw Wikipedia on you, cause all that stuff about a space segment with 24 to 32 satellites and a Earth medium orbit and the number of satellites in each orbital period that varies from 2 to 24 hours and bla bla bla is off my league.

And if you are not wrong, that means that the software and/or the hardware are lying to me:eek:

The other day using the EXTERNAL Gps receiver (yes, the one with sirfstarIII chipset) I could see on my GS, it was viewing 16(!) satellites and using 12!!

Or the devices are lying to me or I am lying to you :rolleyes:

And let's be logical: Why a manufacturer would build a chipset with 20 Parallel channels if it cannot view more than 8 sats.?

http://europe.nokia.com/find-produc...kia-gps-module-ld-3w/technical-specifications

And click on gps receiver
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Polarfuchs:
Maybe 2 Channels per Sat?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
y

Yeah...you nailed that...
[Galaxy S I9000 General] xan:
Just face the facts. 30 sats globally. And about 20 channels paralell: WAAS. Dont need to be explanatory, info is in the interwebs. To sum up, its another marketing BS, since most consumer receivers support it, but have WAAS support disabled. It could be enabled, but due to low sensitivity benefits are not great.

You misread and misunderstood me. 8 sats minimal visible sats. At any given time. Actually there are more, since number of them is not 24 but 30.

I'm getting to the point where correcting you becomes fun ;d
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
Lol..the fun continues...24 to 32....24 are used in different orbits so a receiver will always be able to view AT LEAST 4. That means it takes 24 satellites to give global coverage and the rest are spares / backups for in case of mal-function, the number of active satellites wont drop under the 24.

In the beginning if I am not wrong the number of extra satellites was 5 then it moved on to six and today 8 of more making a total of 32 of more.

But if the total number is 30 or 32 it doesnt matter. You need a minimum of 24 for global coverage, and a capable gps receiver can view many times up to 12 satellites simultaneously and and in rare cases up to 18 (if it got enough channels of course.

Wait for my video...and I am waiting for that sunny day....
[Galaxy S I9000 General] betoNL:
And before I go to bed...

Parallel Channel Receiver :

A continuous tracking receiver using multiple receiver circuits to track satellites simultaneously

Nothing to do with WAAS - network of ground-based reference stations

Please stop correcting me :D
[Galaxy S I9000 General] brunes:
It amazes me how much XDA is a mix of incredibly informed threads about modifying android kernels, and totally misinformed posts like this one.

Like others have posted, A-GPS is only to help phones get locks fast.

This is why it takes an out of the box Garmin unit multiple times as long to get a GPS lock as a cell phone despite the fact it is 100% dedicated to GPS and has an enormous antenna - it has no idea where in the world it is the first time it is turned on. Subsequent locks are only faster if it is powered on in roughly the same area; if you take a handheld GPS on a plane and power it up across the country it takes forever to get a lock. If you were a geocacher, you would know this stuff.

And I have no sweet clue why you started bring up WAAS. The whole reason some standalone GPS units support WAAS, is *because* they are not phones and therefore can't do A-GPS.

End of thread.
[Galaxy S I9000 General] marty1976:
And I thought it was a Qualcomm GpsOne MSM7200a?

Please explain, I thought

WAAS / EGNOS / QZSS / whatever was for accuracy and

aGPS for getting a faster first fix?
[Galaxy S I9000 General] Idan73:
sorry off topic but thought this thread would die by now lol

betoNL without L = beton (in my native tongue means concrete which explains it for me)

topic title "gps drama sequel...." should read soap opera
[Galaxy S I9000 General] andrewluecke:
WAAS/SBAS is mainly for reliability/improving accuracy/error detection, and A-GPS is to provide faster locks. SBAS isn't really intended to provide faster locks (although it might), but it's irrelevant anyway, because there is no standard way of providing SBAS (which makes it useful only for domestic US-pilots).

But it's irrelevant anyway, because BetoNL keep arguing that phones rely on A-GPS to work.. That's BS. We've shown the phones can lock just as well without it, so we know that isn't true..

And this discussion about channels is mostly BS too. The Garmin 430W is a 12 channel receiver (only), but refreshes at 5hz, and that is used by pilots... Yes, even in cloud where incorrect data would lead to flight into terrain. You can have 3000 channels, but if you only operate at 1hz, at 100km/h, your actual location is only updated every 27meters. If you run at 15km/h (which is a realistic speed), its only updated every 4meters. So in motion, faster refresh rate sometimes helps more.

Of course, we don't have any specs on the chip, so BetoNL still hasn't even proven the channels. He's just guessing. Just like the people before who were saying this GPS "likely only has 8channels". Funny how the number changes with software revisions! Now it has 12?

Please stop googling. The phone works without A-GPS, and it isn't relying on it. We all know the GPS is dodgy, but there is NO evidence that Samsung are working on improving A-GPS rather than GPS. Also, regarding your Sirfstar.. WHO CARES? You still haven't even found the specifications for this chip, and until we open schroedingers box, the cat can be either dead or alive, ie. Nobody has proven it's a worse chip.

So either be quiet, or find the specs BetoNL. But stop making assumptions. Please!