yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Epic 4G General] entropism:
The word "may" closes them off from idiots saying "I had 150k uploads before, now I had 145k once out of 25 tries! I want a new phone! I WANT A NEW PHONE!!!!!"

And if you think idiots like that aren't out there, you haven't worked in a cellular store before.
[Epic 4G General] boomerbubba:
Too bad about the idiots (including those who work in cellular stores).

The established fact is that the Epic is broken and customers paid good money for it. The vendor is at fault for this, not "idiot" customers. Since the vendor is now asking customers to grant them extra trust and wait for a fix, the vendor should extend the trial period in return. A mutual fair deal.
[Epic 4G General] mark920:
The vendor is not asking you to or making you keep the product if you do not like the cap. The vendor is trying to fix an issue that some have voiced as a concern, it is not a promise it will meet your expectations. Most people would not even notice the cap because upload speeds on 3g typically are not very good regardless, there is no guarantee of upload speeds or a minimum speed you must receive and the service is not sold that way. However if upload speeds are of extreme importance and if this product doesnt work for you then return it. You are owed nothing special because you want to wait to see if this is an acceptable outcome to you. A product is being sold, there is a trial period, make your judgement on the facts available to you now and either keep the product or do not, if you are unsure of this will fix the issue then return it.
[Epic 4G General] boomerbubba:
Do you represent Sprint? If anyone at Sprint said that to me I almost certainly would tell them to cancel the contract. But I don't think you do speak for Sprint. I think they do want the two grand, so they are asking for the business.
[Epic 4G General] entropism:
Look, the simple fact is, we live in a sanitized, litigious, pussified society, and people want to sue over EVERYTHING. By saying the word "may", instead of will, Sprint is practicing a much needed case of Covering Their Ass.

Is the 150k upload speeds a bug that needs fixing? YES. However, by wording it as "will" instead of "may", people who living in an area where say, 100k uploads are the norm and they don't see a DEFINITE upload speed of over 150k (the "will" represents a definite, a constant, a guarantee), they can easily give Sprint **** over their wording, and either demand a new phone for free, demand an ETF free termination, or try to start a lawsuit.

Now, by wording it as "may", they cover their ass in the extreme cases that everyone else with half a brain realizes is just common sense.
[Epic 4G General] boomerbubba:
As I said, I don't begrudge Sprint that wiggle room. I'm willing to trust them to give them time to implement the fix if, and only if, they also extend the trial period. If they have faith in their own purported plan for remediation, that should not be a problem. And remember, this is a design defect for which they and their manufacturing partner bear responsibility in the first place. This certainly not the customers' fault (your smug attitude about "idiot" customers notwithstanding).

So overall, I'm willing to cut Sprint a break if they reciprocate.
[Epic 4G General] entropism:
I'd HARDLY call it a smug attitude, thank you very much. When YOU deal with people who do the following on a daily basis, you'd be jaded too:

1 - Hand you a phone with a HOLE in the screen and demand it was a manufacturing defect that a screwdriver went through it, then try to take a swing at you when you hand them an insurance card.

2 - Hand you a phone with moist sand pouring out of it and try to claim it never got near water

3 - hand you a still damp phone with RICE still inside it, and claim they never got it wet and had no idea how the rice got inside

4 - hand you a phone that literally pours liquid onto your desk, then proceed to tell you that they got into a fight with their girlfriend, who proceeded to throw it on the floor and PEE on it (really wish I wore gloves for that one)

That being said, there are people who will try to cancel over everything, and the wording between "may" or "will" is something that WILL come back to bite Sprint (or any other company) in the ass at one point or another.
[Epic 4G General] boomerbubba:
I have no doubt that such incidents happen. We also could tick off plenty of reasons not to trust carriers, manufacturers and cell phone sales consultants in particular. There is not just idiocy, but also dissembling and downright dishonesty. Samsung, in particular, has a pretty sorry reputation for customer support.

You don't trust customers. Understood. I don't trust cell phone salesmen. And I certainly don't trust corporations like Sprint any further than they are willing to trust me. The fact is that they now have the special case of a defective product with no fix yet, and the bolus of early adopters, including me, is nearing the 30 day deadline. I should think Sprint would be interested in keeping our business to give itself time, instead of saying: "Take it or leave it. You take all the risk of a fix, even though we and Samsung are to blame."

Read my lips. I am not quibbling over "may," but over the one-sided allocation of risk and trust. I have said twice I can understand that Sprint wants wiggle room, but I want reciprocation.
[Epic 4G General] testacon:
:eek:Tell that to the people who have the Sprint Samsung Moment. From Nov. 9th 2009 to today they are still fighting the uphill battle trying to get their phones fixed.

community.sprint.com/baw/thread/24237;jsessionid=FFCC2CF5B47FB507F65A95C2A5374757.app1jive1?start=345&tstart=0&reqsorting=dec

I'm sure Sprint and Samsung used the words MAY fix your airplane mode issue or MAY fix your data lockup problems but it's been nearly a year and the problems still exist.

The 24 pages of that thread and 10 months later, I thinking that Sprint/Samsung MAY have screwed Moment users over.

However I will say that Samsung is putting all their eggs in the Galaxy S bucket. If they screw over the owners of all these phones on all the carriers out there, their reputation will be destroyed in the cellular arena. They know it's in their best interest to fix these problems fast (if possible), it would totally suck though if these issues are hardware based.
[Epic 4G General] entropism:
Just letting you know, a Moment software update especially for the airplane mode bug is coming this week. A little late, but still...
[Epic 4G General] aero1:
Entropism, you are a really helpful poster and I admire you. There are plenty of nice sprint works, soem informed ones, and a lot of condescending dolts. I consider you to be nice and knowledgeable.

But around here, among friends, we have all been around the block and seen things Sprint has fixed and things they have never fixed, and simply relied on textual "fixes" of what to expect.

So when it comes to these stunning low 3G speeds, it is shocking sprint did not see this in there tests, and also given the recently discovered apparent packet filtering on Epic yet not on Evo, it does make people rightfully cautious about being sure of anything Sprint says.

The Epic other serious bug, the GPS, is also very disconcerting. We knwo the way it manifests, might, unlike the 3G issue, have made it harder for Sprint to see. After all it goes away temporarily with resets. so maybe their testers were reseting often. But given the Galaxy S having so many GPS problems testing there should have been more stringent as well. Sprint is still giving people false and misleading advce on users on fixing aGPS, telling them to use wireless network locaiton, which is a misdirection to tower locaiton and has no affect on the real bug.
[Epic 4G General] boomerbubba:
Just for the record, the actual Sprint representative I last talked to about this issue was much more reasonable and accommodating after reading the Sprint statement on the 3G network issue. He cut me some slack on the trial period while awaiting this fix, and I cut Sprint some slack on keeping the line and the phone while we wait. A win-win deal. We both hope the fix comes through and that it works.
[Epic 4G General] APOLAUF:
Glad this worked out for you (so far). Let's hope the fix is everything we've been asking for...
[Epic 4G General] usfslacker:
You would be stunned how often Sprint employees will go out of their way to keep you as a customer if you just ask someone. I've gotten extra upgrades, I've gotten them to turn the $75 extra line upgrade bonus into a full $150 upgrade, I've gotten actual money off of monthly bills and quite a few other things for minor inconveniences in performance and/or billing. The reason my family is STILL with Sprint (besides being the best bang for your buck everything plan out there) is that we've all had AWFUL experiences with the other companies out there (especially ATT) and Sprint very regularly impresses.

I told a rep at the Sprint store that I want to get an Epic on Oct 1 but was worried about those issues and he offered to extend my 30 days (for switching phones only, not for bailing out of contract) until the time at which they release the next update if I needed it to ensure that my issues were addressed.
[Epic 4G General] entropism:
Oh trust me, I know. There are aspects of Sprint's procedures and testing that I think are asinine, and I definitely give as much leeway in my store as I can without getting fired. All I was doing was commenting on the legality and reasoning behind the wording, nothing more and nothing less. The simple fact is that yes, Sprint should have had these issues fixed, but I know that they have been aware (even if not admitted publicly) from the start and working on the bugs since before launch.

However, I stand behind my original statement: Customers will do ANYTHING to try to get one over on Sprint, read a forum thread on SERO if you want proof. And a simple wording difference between "may" and "will" can mean a world of difference.
[Epic 4G General] boomerbubba:
Now, that is an interesting insider tidbit. It implies that Sprint knowingly launched the phone with this defect, and perhaps that "sales consultants" sold it and accompanying expensive contracts -- presumably incented by commissions -- without disclosing the known defect to their customers.

I will resist weeping for the vendor and its salespersons being taken advantage of by all those dishonest "idiots" who provide their revenue.
[Epic 4G General] entropism:
Boomer, I'm taking myself out of this thread due to the snide comments, and I urge you to return your epic for that golden phone that has 0 issues, 0 bugs, and 0 complaints.

Sent from my SPH-D700
[Epic 4G General] J3ff:
well I sure don't appreciate that my post was deleted in this thread. I believe that part of my problem and most of my story was caused by the slow upload.
[Epic 4G General] APOLAUF:
xda's database servers had a disk array failure. This thread and all others were restored from backup, I doubt your post was deleted intentionally.
[Epic 4G General] J3ff:
ah, ok, wellllllll i shall retype later on :)
[Epic 4G General] hi-tech:
Link?.....
[Epic 4G General] aero1:
my posts, testing etc also were also lost.

My point is having worked on issues with boomer and entropism I take them both seriously.

Entrpoisim is also confirming somethign I suspected from day one, which is that Sprint knew about this. I can't see a situation where their testing would not have seen this.

There are a number of strange and unique data problems with this handset.
[Epic 4G General] compuw22c:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=791156
[Epic 4G General] Muckrak3r:
I have been working with a Sprint rep for several days regarding the poor upload speeds. He also has stated Sprint is waiting for Samsung to get them the maintenance fix so Sprint can push it out.

At the same time, I have been working with them regarding the poor download speeds as well. All the focus seems to be on the 'cap' of 150k for the upload. The download speeds are also utterly poor most of the time.

Using the speedtest app on 4G and wi-fi gives great results, it's only 3G. I urge everyone to contact Sprint and have a ticket opened regarding both upload and download speeds. A fix won't happen if we don't keep re-igniting the flame.

To their credit, Sprint has really stepped up the plate for me and stayed in contact. They call when they say they will, they listen, and then react. They are promising a fix. I am shocked at how good their service is. Even with crippled 3G speeds, I don't want to switch companies. I want to work with them to get this fine phone perfected.

email Dan@sprint.com if you want to get the ball rolling.
[Epic 4G General] itsmebryan:
If you don't like the phone than take it back. Why is that so hard? Go and find the phone that will make you happy. Life is too short to be upset over a phone.
[Epic 4G General] aero1:
Because that is a passive outlook. Problems are very often solved either by user fixes (which have not arisen for four weeks) or by extreme pressure on the provider.

The way the world works in consumer electronics is that if anything is going to work, pressure will.

1/4 the normal 3g upload speeds is a serious, severe problem. these phones and their apps are desinged to be uploading data.

teh good news is the extreme pressure on Sprint pressed them to apply resources, or apply their own pressure on samsung and Sprint today announced a fix will being being pushed out tomorrow. :)
[Epic 4G General] cholepuree1:
theres an article posted just abut an hour ago on engadget about un update being pushed out tomorrow to fix the upload issues.

apparently our upload issues will end tomorrow!!! They're rolling it out over the next 4 days.

Ok - on to the other issues... gps? tvout? :)

"Good news - an update will be released tomorrow 9/30. It will be rolled out over a 4 day period so not everyone will get it on day 1. I will have the standard MR information (fixes included, rollout schedule, etc) available tomorrow morning and will post it in a new featured thread."
[Epic 4G General] aero1:
I think samsung is part of the consortium working on micro sub to hdmi standards and tht is expected to shake out 1st q 2011
[Desire General] WillyVWade:
Now that FroYo is out from Orange UK, Can I restore my debranded desire be revetered to stock so I can get it replaced for one that doesn't overheat when it feels like it...?
[Desire General] ste1164:
I dont think so no as the Orange UK RUU hasn't been leaked
[Desire General] WillyVWade:
Couldn't someone save the OTA update, then I flash it to my phone?
[Desire General] EddyOS:
No, as you need to be on an Orange ROM to get it. You're going to have to wait and hope the Orange 2.2 RUU is leaked...
[Desire General] DroidBois:
Can a unbranded unlocked phone be reverted to stock state for warranty purposes? This problem primarily effects branded phones?
[Desire General] EddyOS:
If you have the stock ROM. Orange UK RUUs have never been leaked so until they are there's no way of doing so
[Desire General] JayceAndTheNews:
I'm not sure they're that savvy on checking. I sent my black (you can only get them from Orange) Desire back to Orange after it started overheating; I'd debranded it and put 2.2 on (before it was out here). I just described my overheating problem and the guy sent me another one, next day couriered, no eyebrows raised.
[Desire General] EddyOS:
But that shouldn't be accepted as the norm as technically you've invalidated the warranty. They should've told you where to go in all honesty ;)
[Desire General] JayceAndTheNews:
Indeed, just thought I'd share. I took the gamble they'd have heard the problem before and just shoot me another one. I believe you get refurb though (this one was immaculate). I didn't want to wait for HTC to fix it.
[Desire General] teppic74:
It's very likely that if you kicked up a fuss you would have your warranty honoured on a debranded phone, since it's unmodified official software. It's a good idea to get an email from your network confirming that they will honour the warranty before you debrand, or you might be better off sending it to HTC directly for a repair.
[Desire General] oursoul:
At the end of the day if Orange piss me off over something so trivial then they will lose a cunstomer.. I know that, they know that... that's why we all get along ;)
[Desire General] mercianary:
If someone has a nandroid backup of a rooted 2.1 orange uk stock can you upload it for us.

You might want to flash it and clear data to get rid of any personal data then make a new nand backup that is safe to share.

If you are kind enough to do so we can update ota to stock 2.2 for warranty purposes if we flash this...I think.
[Desire General] doinbox:
I agree with mercinary if someone could do that it'd be great.
[Desire General] ste1164:
I have a backup of the stock orange rom but how would I go extracting and uploading? If I could make it into an RUU I will just someone needs to tell me how.
[Desire General] mercianary:
Just upload the nand backup on multiupload and we will sort out the rest.

Don't forget to reset it to factory settings before uploading.

Just do this

Nand backup your current rom.

Restore stock backup.

Clear data/factory reset. Do this to clear your private data.

Nand backup this new clean rom.

Zip it all up and upload it to multiupload (you don't need to register with this site.

Copy the link multiuplad gives you and post it here.

Restore the nand backup you made of your current rom.

Receive many thanks from many happy people.

Thanks:)
[Desire General] leecavturbo:
yes many thanks
[Desire General] ste1164:
Right I'll do that now for you guys.
[Desire General] ste1164:
Here it is http://www.multiupload.com/ATSGUBVLQY

It does have the older software version though (1.15.61.10). So you will need to wait for HTC to release the newer version (1.22.61.1). Anyways I hope this works for you. Tell me if it does :D
[Desire General] ste1164:
Has no one tried this yet? D:
[Desire General] mercianary:
Trying now. Will let you know when I'm successfull
[Desire General] ste1164:
Were you successful at all?
[Desire General] paprkut:
If it doesn't work ill.upload mine in a weeks time. ( no access to the net abroad )
[Desire General] mercianary:
I couldn't restore the backup the normal way. I did manage to flash it through an update.zip but it wont boot, hangs on white HTC screen and sometimes reboots to recovery:(

Anyone else have any success or know his to get it working? Would having a new radio cause it to fail in this way? Because the only thing that's different is the radio and the recovery.

Will try again later.
[Desire General] mercianary:
Nand restore decided to work today.

Don't know what I did wrong last night...

All I did was remove recovery.img and it's line from checksum.md5 then restore withamonra.

Trouble is when I click check for updates nothing shows up. Says my phone is up to date.

How reliable is the update? Does it show up all the time or do I have to wait? I have never done an ota update.
[Desire General] ste1164:
Glad it worked out eventually. That backup has the old software version (1.15.61.10). We need to wait until HTC releases the updated software version (1.22.61.1). Then when we have the new software version we just Menu Key > Settings > About phone > System software updates > Check now.
[Desire General] mercianary:
according to this page it will be released early next week. that page has probably been there for weeks though.
[Desire General] ste1164:
No that page only came out on Saturday I think.
[Desire General] fonzi74:
Hi mercianary,

Wow, so you actually managed to go back to an Orange branded stock Rom from something else.

If so then could you please share the method you have used?

If it is not a problem could you please give me a short step by step guide how to do this?

It would be much appreciated if you could help me out with this as I am planning to debrand my Htc Desire but I would like to be able to go back to the stock Orange c**ap if I need to.

Thank you in advance.
[Desire General] mercianary:
We can't flash the stock rom yet. Just a rooted stock rom from a backup made after rooting.

When orange release the update mentioned above you will be able to flash the rooted orange rom then update ota to an official unrooted rom.

We just need to wait for orange now...
[Desire General] fonzi74:
So at the moment there is no way to restore the branded Orange stock ROM if you debrand the phone by flashing it with the HTC debranded ROM?
[Desire General] mercianary:
you can restore to a branded rom now, but it is rooted.

there has never been an branded orange uk rom leaked, buts that the risk you take with rooting/debranding.

afaik orange arent too hot on checking returned phones. i dont think they really care, but an official rom would make me feel better.
[Desire General] fonzi74:
Yes, same here.

Thanks for the answers anyway.
[Desire General] ste1164:
Does anyone have a clean backup of a ROM which has the new software version so we can download FroYo?
[Desire General] Yogimax:
Yes please...
[Desire General] scubatricky:
How did you edit out the checksum, I've tried, and removed the recovery.img from the backup folder, but this results in a checksum error when trying to restore the image. I'm using Clockwork.
[Desire General] mercianary:
I opened checksum.md5 in wordpad (not notepad because it displays the file wrong, all on one line) and deleted the line that says recovery.img saved it then flashed.
[Desire General] teppic74:
You won't have returned to the original ROM, just the rooted one with custom recovery. There's no guarantee an OTA upgrade will work from that.
[Desire General] ste1164:
All we will need to do is say download but dont install. Find the OTA update. Then uncheck signed packages in clockwork mod and install the update.zip that way.
[Desire General] teppic74:
OTA upgrades patch existing systems. A rooted system is modified in a way HTC doesn't account for, so the upgrade will probably not run, and if it does, may give you a broken ROM.
[Desire General] scubatricky:
Just tried to install unsigned from the OTA zip file, now have a handset with red hazard triangle and exclamation mark over it. Is it now bricked, or can someone point me to the solution?

I have the NAND backups stored offline on my PC. Can I simply unrevoke again, or is it bricked?
[Desire General] ste1164:
Erm I'm no expert but it sounds like its bricked.
[Desire General] Singh400:
I returned my broken handset to Orange this evening. I just flashed this. Received my new/refurbished handset with ****ty 2.1 and 4.x radio! Already rooted (took a nandroid backup as well now), but I need to unlock it again!
[Desire General] doinbox:
Wow!

Can't believe someone has finally uploaded an Orange nand. How long did that take.
[Desire General] ste1164:
I posted that a while ago but it has the old software version. It would be nice if someone with the new software version would do a android backup and post it as I don't want to wait for htc to release it.
[Desire General] ste1164:
I dont think the new software version installs for us rooted users :(. Guess we are stuck with root unless we debrand.

EDIT: The update went through and my phone is now unrooted again :D
[Desire General] Instinct64:
Sorry for digging up an old thread, but does this mean I can now Root my Debranded Orange UK Desire, restore the backup posted in this thread, apply the OTA Update and then my phone would be returned to a Stock Orange ROM ?

Could anyone post a step by step, for a Currently Un-Rooted user.
[Desire General] mikep99:
This guide was only for AMOLED handsets so you would have to find out what yours is. It should say on the box if it IS AMOLED.wont say anything if SLCD.

Also, you say you have a debranded Orange phone. I'm assuming you ran the WWE RUU with a goldcard to debrand? If so, why not root anyway if you want? You can always get back to the unrooted WWE rom by running the RUU again.