yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Desire General] npshev:
Best way is to keep hassling them. Waste enough of their man hours and they'll take notice, because it will start costing them money.
[Desire General] Fightspit:
Any news from HTC ?
[Desire General] anon29:
*email removed
[Desire General] npshev:
HTC asked for my phone number to talk about my request for a refund. That was mid last week. No calls from them so far.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
I got an email asking for my device serial and full contact info... not sure if i should or not.
[Desire General] heavymetalmage:
It would be nice if it would move things along but really the point is that it should be freely available on developer.htc.com. Do they think no one owns a desire or a cdma desire?
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Well excuses say that they are waiting untill Telus and Telstra get the froyo update before the source is released.

Telus is due for mid octover (oct 15th rumored)
[Desire General] heavymetalmage:
Hmmm, perhaps they are doing the same for the BravoC. USCC's update is rumored for october/november as well. Still, we should have access to the eclair kernel.

Edit: eclair for bravoc; froyo for bravo.
[Desire General] marinierb:
The Eclair kernel source is available.

http://developer.htc.com/
[Desire General] heavymetalmage:
That's for the GSM desire. I'm talking about the BravoC aka the CDMA Desire. Both the eclair for CDMA and the froyo for GSM are missing from developer.htc.com (and very soon the froyo for CDMA I would assume.)
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
they are not obligated to release BravoC froyo source yet. they are however obligated to release éclair source/
[Desire General] heavymetalmage:
Exactly. Why they haven't released the bravo froyo source (several months) or the bravoC eclair source (over a month) is beyond me. I just hope it is resolved soon.
[Desire General] heavymetalmage:
Probably the nicest response I've seen yet:

I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities.

We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review.

When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter.

You can contact HTC Technical Support via telephone by calling 866.449.8658 between 6AM – 1AM EST, seven days a week.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 10USCW41ENA000990.

Sincerely,

Sarah

HTC
[Desire General] ecitron:
Does it change anything that 2 providers aren't on froyo yet? Why should they wait for them ?

Out of topic:

Will I be able to get the update from TELUS even if I unlocked my phone? Not unbranded with goldcard...just unlocked the SIM
[Desire General] ZigmaDK:
Could you please explain what kernel source is needed? If I visit developer.htc.com i get this:

HTC Desire - Froyo MR - 2.6.32 kernel source code

and a download button. Is that the one you want? Or is it another version?
[Desire General] lalexi:
Yes, I think that was not online before. Downloading right now.

edit: Looks like the real thing...
[Desire General] abc27:
They only released it today. We've been waiting months and months for it to be released.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Bravo Froyo is up and BravoC eclair :D YAY!
[Desire General] heavymetalmage:
Must have been my e-mail last night, lol :p
[Desire General] System of a pWne!^:
Finally! Finally, finally, finally!

Now just a few days and the first modded kernels with OC,UV and everything else tweaked will appear.
[Desire General] justinkb:
They posted it!!!
[Desire General] teppic74:
The GPL doesn't say they have 60 days to provide the code. Since they offer a website, the implication is immediate, as it takes no time to package or deliver the source code. And the Desire has been available for, what, 6 months now?
[Desire General] olipheus:
got reply from gpl-violations:

hi Viktor,

> HTC is breaking the GPL license by not releasing the source code for

> their

> 2.2 Froyo ROM.

Urghhh....not again. We'll see what we can do.

armijn
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
"The fourth section for version 2 of the license and the seventh section of version 3 require that programs distributed as pre-compiled binaries are accompanied by a copy of the source code, a written offer to distribute the source code via the same mechanism as the pre-compiled binary or the written offer to obtain the source code that you got when you received the pre-compiled binary under the GPL. "

There is no mention in these sections of 60 days in fact every part I can see releated to release of ninary source is to be "distributed as pre-compiled binaries are accompanied by a copy of the source code".

*face palm* i wish HTC would just release it as they should be doing. why all this fighting for it?
[Desire General] :
When was the 2.2 kernel finalized an pushed out? That's when you count, not the device release.

HTC has tons of proprietary code implemented in their kernel. They don't have to publish that, and because of that they need to "clean up" what the publish.
[Desire General] godutch:
The kernel source alone is pretty big (around 200MB) then there is the rest of the OS. There also must be some proprietary bits which they can't or don't want to release which they should remove from the source
[Desire General] teppic74:
They should just include it on the supplied sdcard. It's only 80mb or so.
[Desire General] godutch:
Full linux source is much much bigger (it's around 288MB uncompressed for the linux source)
[Desire General] olipheus:
I assume they will first ask them in a mannered fasion, describe their obligations and so on, and then, if that doesn't work, inform the copyright holders.
[Desire General] teppic74:
They didn't release the source for Android 2.1's kernel as used on the Desire at all.

All the code included in the kernel and distributed falls under the GPL and must be released too.
[Desire General] wazer1337:
Wrote to gpl today.

And....

Smashed a email forward to HTC, giving them 30 days to release the source, else i will go to court with them.
[Desire General] AdamG:
Remember to quote the source for the CDMA Desire in any correspondence as well :)
[Desire General] TxDLoaD:
I just asked for the source code on the danish htc site.

Hope it will put some pressure on them
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
I mentioned the BravoC as well.
[Desire General] wazer1337:
We have had several other reports. I am already trying to get through to

HTC to get this fixed.

armijn
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
HAs any one called to request the source? i know how easy it is to email dodge, which i think HTC is doing. As when i emailed an inquiery about something else they had replied in 20 min, Every time i email about source i get the go to the web site response or none at all.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Heh... did some reading. Looks liek Google didnt use GPL on their Android source.

They used Apache Open Source License, but i question if the kernel source falls under GPL still?

HTC Claims that they have 90-120 days to release source and this confides with in the community requirements. i dont get "90-120" days. Would the license or community not set something sold and less wishy washy?
[Desire General] teppic74:
Android isn't under the GPL, but the Linux kernel is. There's nothing in the licence that gives them 90-120 days.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Dear Mr. X,

Thank you for your email regarding the kernel source code for the HTC Desire. When kernel source codes are released by HTC, they are listed on HTC developer site at http://developer.htc.com/. HTC will typically publish on http://developer.htc.com the Kernel open source code for recently released devices as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community. Also, the Android operating system is listed under the Apache Open Source License. You can view information on the Apache License, as well as information on Google’s decision, by visiting the links below: http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/faq/licensingandoss.html http://arstechnica.com/old/content/...se-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.ars http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 10CACW38ENA000053.

Sincerely,

Dayton

HTC
[Desire General] teppic74:
It's meaningless. They've invented the figure. The open source community would generally say that the source code should be provided with the binary itself, or made available publicly the same day as released. You do need the source code before you can make the binary, after all. And no legally enforceable licence would refer to some vague figure plucked out of the air.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
i agree 100%
[Desire General] Ivanovic:
Sorry for being noob,but what the devs will gain from such an action?
[Desire General] teppic74:
Access to the kernel's source will allow for far more development work (improvements to all sorts of things).

Plus there's the ethical side, which annoys me a lot. The kernel is open source and developed by people who want their work to remain open for all. HTC is effectively stealing their work (legally, infringing copyright).
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
I'm annoyed for the same reasonss as you teppic74, but also because evo and incredible source was available with in ours of the compiled binary. HTC knows the deal they are just dog ****ing.
[Desire General] waebi:
thumbs up for pushing them a bit, as a ROM addict I'm of course happy when it comes to improvement/new stuff. go on! :)
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
My reply to HTC:

Hello Dayton,

I understand Google Android its self is AOSL distributed but understand this is not what i am asking for i'm asking for the 2.6.32 Kernel source which is protected by the GPL and there is no 90-120 day grace period for releasing the source of said kernel. HTC is required to distribute this upon request, in fact its required to be available at the time of the publicly distributed compiled binary is. So i request that HTC gives me access to said HTC Desire (Code name Bravo and BravoC) Kernel source code.

Android source is already freely available, this is not the issue.

Regards,

Mr. X
[Desire General] snq-:
i for one would hate it

all the fun would be gone then
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
This isn't an issue of fun its an issue of ethics, and the fact that HTC is withholding code that they do not own in breach of the GPL.
[Desire General] olipheus:
Any progress?
[Desire General] olipheus:
Just one slightly off topic question. When the source code is released, is it possible to fix the HTC bluetooth compability with wiimote you think? :D
[Desire General] foxmeister:
Yes, they *should* have made the source available the very instant that the first OTA updates to Froyo were pushed out.

However, in practice, HTC do tend to dawdle, though nowadays nowhere near as badly as they did when the Hero first came out. However, if they did enforce a policy of making the source code available the instant the ROM is released, I'm sure that instead of having Froyo on out phones for the last 6 weeks, we'd still be waiting for both the kernel source and the Froyo update.

The problem with reporting them to gpl-violations is that whilst it certainly can't hut, I doubt that it will realistically help because HTC always do comply eventually so there is probably little will @ gpl-violations to actually do anything since by the time they are really engaged, the source code will have been made available.

However, it is extremely irritating that the Evo and Incredible both have the Froyo kernel source code already!

Regards,

Dave
[Desire General] foxmeister:
HTC have already released the Desire Bluez source code for Froyo, and I'd be fairly certain that the problem is there.

Regards,

Dave
[Desire General] Lennyuk:
Although HTC did get a lot better at releasing sources they are still no where near perfect.

It took them a very very long time to release their sources for the Hero and a lot of pressure was applied on them before they did.

Its a shame but we are in for a long wait and a lot of complaints before they will do anything here.
[Desire General] TxDLoaD:
I just got a reply from HTC asking for sourcecode for the froyo kernel:

Dear Morten Hedegaard,

Thank you for letting us know that the source code was not availble on developer.htc.com. I shall pass your request on to the relevant department immediately, for their consideration. I would expect the source code to be availble shortly.

Thank you for your patience.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 10DKCW38ENA000095.

Sincerely,

Anja

HTC
[Desire General] snq-:
(it is little or no help when it comes to modifying/extending our HTCish framework. but this is offtopic here)
[Desire General] teppic74:
I had the same reply from HTC as TxDLoaD.

Of course they will eventually release the code, or somebody will end up taking them to court (there's plenty of people who own copyrighted code they're distributing). But pressure from requests might speed it up at least.
[Desire General] teppic74:
I don't think this is true. HTC's under huge commercial pressure to get the latest version of Android out as soon as possible. Since they've had the source code ready a long time before actual release, there's no real excuse for a delay. I think they just don't see the obligation (legal as well as ethical) to release as serious as they would if it were proprietary software - can you imagine them releasing a Windows-based phone without paying Microsoft any licence fees?
[Desire General] st0kes:
HTC will release it in their own sweet time, there is nothing we can say that will speed it up.

I don't understand the moaning anyway, we already have a fully working kernel from defer and kali-?

http://github.com/teamdesire/cm-kernel/
[Desire General] Lennyuk:
not with sense we don't (you have to remember some people still like sense :) )
[Desire General] Kali-:
HTC have released incredible kernel source before the rom ...

I really dont understand what are htc doing for bravo/bravoc
[Desire General] Tawm:
Same reply as above.
[Desire General] andycted:
Well, we should link them to the dev section and LennyUk rom to show them what the lack of froyo source has triggered !

/DRUNK HULK MODE

It all their fault ! Zipping and packaging stuff ! That xda has comes down to ! And it all they fault !

/END DRUNK HULK MODE

Sorry, the other thread is closed and felt a bit of the humor was left behind
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Looks like a few of you guys got the standard copy and paste statement there, at least i got some one who tried to tell me the kernel source fell under the apache open source license like android does.

He is miss informed or thats a pretty error full copy and paste.
[Desire General] dzire187:
I dropped a mail to HTC Germany, asking for the Kernel Source of Froyo. Although I do not have any use for it, I think it is vital for the community and Android itself to enforce the GPL. After all, Android's openness is one of its main features, at least in my humble opinion.

I'll get back to you in case I ever get a reply.

@devs: thank you for your effort,–
[Desire General] SquallLTT:
http://member.america.htc.com/download/RomCode/Source_and_Binaries/bravo_54b7033a.tar.gz

Is it the one u guys talking about?
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Here are the Facts:

The linux gernel is protected by GPL v2

GPL v2 states that uppon request source MUST be distributed. It also required them to release it in line with the public compiled binary.

They are in violation of the GPL and their own EULA (read section 4 of the legal information that comes with any HTC Android device).
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
No, if it was available we would not be up in arms over this. We're clearly smart enough to check if we can point out the fact that they are in breach of the GPL lol
[Desire General] SquallLTT:
but at the website they wrote:

HTC Desire - Éclair - 2.6.29 kernel source code	72.7 MB	Download

I'm downloading that file to see what is inside
[Desire General] teppic74:
If that's correct, it's the old kernel source, not the one for froyo.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
We're after the 2.6.32 source for Android 2.2 (Froyo) not the 2.6.29 source thats for android 2.1 (Eclair)
[Desire General] SquallLTT:
ic, downloaded that file and have a lot of C source files :D maybe this is 2.1 kernel not 2.2 :D haha thanks for the info
[Desire General] superliam:
id love to do my bit, but im a total noob. what are you lot writing to HTC? copy and paste it here and ill mod it a little (to make it my own) and send it on.
[Desire General] mmaacc:
Wrong. Anything HTC develops based on GPL code has to follow GPL as derivative work. That is they have to release the identical sources together with any binaries. There is no clause of any possible delay. Publish binary, provide the sources. Completely and uncrippled. FSF has some nasty lawyers in the field, that do nothing else but suck money out of violators. HTC opened their doors wider than anyone else to be sued down to their socks. So be it.

BTW, if you hack any code together, you have to do the same. Provide complete sources. Otherwise you're not better than HTC ;).
[Desire General] teppic74:
It's a common belief that the kernel will contain proprietary software. It won't. It's ALL under the GPL and must be released complete by HTC. The phone's operating system can contain proprietary software but not parts of the kernel, which is completely separate.

They have no grace period. They can use, modify and distribute the kernel free of charge, but instead of paying a licence fee for it, they agree to publish all changes to the code. Otherwise they have no right at all to distribute it.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Still no reply from htc from my last correspondence pointing out that they had no wiggle room they must provide me with the source upon request.

I'm sure that the low level tech lackie has been instructed to try an avoid my emails thus not incriminating their practices further.
[Desire General] abc27:
Anyone feel like signing an e-petition? I know they're generally useless piles of gunk for most things but this is a fairly small thing and it's all online and all just for a company to release what they're obliged to release.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/desiresrc/
[Desire General] doinbox:
Engadget are attending a HTC conference tomorrow so I have emailed them and asked on behalf of us all that they could ask about it.

You never know they might help out.
[Desire General] mmaacc:
Someone should post it at slashdot, there are sharks out there :)
[Desire General] godutch:
No kernel modules don't need to be part of the kernel source, there are many proprietary kernel modules, eg nvidia
[Desire General] mmaacc:
We don't talk about modules here, we talk about the kernel. Even though HTC may find some loopholes, they still have to provide their kernel sources.
[Desire General] godutch:
Yes they should release that unless they didn't modify it.
[Desire General] pppack:
Dear friends,

i often read post by dev's and wonder why i studied Law instead of programming..

But that isn't the case right now :):)

If you guys can point me in the right direction, the laws / regulations / e-laws etc. i perhaps can be of assistance.

But please give me some time to study the relevant law. It's probably not in my native language (Dutch or Turkish) so i'll need some time to fully understand it before i write anything.

I also have a lot of cases during office hours, so i'll have only the evening to put anything on paper.

Ahmet.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Take a look at GPL v2 as that what the linux kernel is protected under.

HTC EULA (read section 4 of the legal information that comes with any HTC Android device).

You will get whats going on here. HTC is withholding source code protected by the GPL that they MUST hand over if requested. and it should have been posted publicly already. Like the Evo and Incredible source has been.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Here is an Update:

"

Dear Mr. X,

I understand how important it is for you to receive correct information about available binary codes. You can keep an eye on developer.htc.com for more information about when these binary codes will be available. We are working on getting these codes released and when they are released it will be available on developer.htc.com. We have not direct contact with the developers and we cannot say when the binary codes will be released because we have no control over this. We are simply technical support and if you have any further questions about binary codes I suggest you try to contact the developers.

To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 10CACW38ENA000081.

Sincerely,

Kathleen

HTC

"

Funny thing is there is no wayt to "contact" the htc developers. Here i thought asking for technical things such as binary source was "Technical support"

So, clearly this way is getting us no where... so where should i harass next?
[Desire General] jedininja666:
You should reply and ask for direct contact with the devs.
[Desire General] teppic74:
Their written offer for source (which they have to include) tells people to contact customer services by email to receive the source code.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
"We have not direct contact with the developers" so they cant give me contact info.

which then makes me ask how do they expect me to contact their own dev team if they claim they cannot.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Yes, i pointed this out to her as well as the fact developer.htc.com has no contact route or resource.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
Update:

"

Kathleen,

How would do you expect my self to contact the dev team when you have no contact with them and HTC has no contact option on http://developer.htc.com ?

Further the written offer for source code upon request that htc states in their legal agreement shipped with their android devices states to contact customer support by email. Please look further into your resources.

Regards,

Mr. X"

Reply:

"Dear Mr. X,

Thank you for your response. You can go to developer.htc.com then click on the link to go to developer.android.com. Then you can type in the search box “contact” and it will give you a list of options to contact different developers. I know that this is not the HTC development team, however someone will know more than me about development issues. I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Kathleen

HTC"

Wow HTC, how obscure is that contact method, this does not negate the fact that the Legal agreement HTC shipps with the device says to contact support by email.... what the ****!?!
[Desire General] :
If you guys are really wanting to see a real response, track down the email address to the upper level management.
[Desire General] abc27:
How the hell is going to Android developers going to get us the Desire-specific 2.2 kernel?
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
I'm already balls deep into this so if you have a contact I'm game.
[Desire General] -Mr. X-:
We're on the same brain wave here.
[Desire General] abc27:
From an '08 post

Get going guys