yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G Android Development] coursevector:
What ROM are you using? (just want to cut out as many potential issues as possible)

Thanks.
[EVO 4G Android Development] nivron:
When I originally did it, I was on Myn's Warm ROM -- one of the original versions. I also successfully did it on Azarel. Both of them were 3.29 ROMs. I haven't tested it on a 3.30 ROM but that shouldn't matter.

I'm currently trying out CyanogenMod and will test it at some point. I don't foresee any complications going this route either.
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
He makes some good points.
[Nexus One General] Paul22000:
MG Siegler is a piece of trash. All his articles about Android are flame-bait garbage.

Look for his other gems such as:

Is Android Surging Only Because Apple Is Letting It?

http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/05/apple-android/

Wait, So 20 Phones On 4 Carriers Outsold 1 Phone On 1 Carrier? Shocking.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/02/iphone-android-sales/
​

Clearly he's gone off the deep-end and is upset that Android has surpassed his oh-so beloved iphone. So now he results to attacking Android like a 3 year old.

I no longer read Tech Crunch. And you should too if you want unbiased news, which you obviously won't get from this Apple fanboy flamer.

Pure trash.
[Nexus One General] Zephyron:
Even if he is an iphone lover, this particular post has some validity. The carriers really are screwing android over. My brother recently bought a Droid X with verizon and asked me to help him root cause he has absolutely no clue on how to do it. He wanted tethering because verizon, like ATnT is charging extra if you want to use tethering natively. So I went a head and root his phone and the phone is nice by all means, but V-Cast was an annoying piece of sh*t that pops up NO MATTER what when you connect your phone to your PC. For users like you and I who do know how to root and reap the benefits then its no problem because we can just ADB remove everything we dont like. But what about for people like my brother? They are stuck with ****ware and functionality like tethering that SHOULD be basic and free, but are forced to pay for if they want to use it. My 2cents, go figure.
[Nexus One General] mrcrassic:
That might be true (I haven't read his other pieces), but he's spot-on here. The fact that many (MANY) Android phones don't have any planned upgrade paths to Android 2.2 (some are still running Android 1.6!) simply because the carriers or phone manufacturers say so is quite telling. On the other hand, someone with an original iPhone, which is just turning three years old, can update their OS to 4.0 and enjoy at least some of the new features the platform has to offer.

At its core, Android is quite open. I can download the source for Android 2.2 right now, build it and run it on any ARM-compatible device without repercussion. Not so for iPhone OS. However, the experience that users actually care about is practically indifferent from its competitor and theoretically worse because carriers have much more sway in controlling it than AT&T (or any other carrier that receives it) does on the iPhone. (Verizon's future app store is a case-in-point example, especially if it "replaces" Android market on the devices that will be getting it.)
[Nexus One General] typ_ex:
Everybody has got to start somehwere.
[Nexus One General] Zephyron:
That is also true, my brother was just being a lazy ass
[Nexus One General] Jack_R1:
This is one of the reasons why carriers love Android.

Yes, it's as open as it can get.

Yes, its openness is exploited by carriers, forcing devices to be lacking functionality / installing bloatware / etc.

These things don't contradict each other.

For a "stupid" end user, there isn't much choice - not all carriers offer vanilla Android devices. On the other hand, the same goes for iPhone - whatever you got there, you got there, whatever apps are supplied by the carrier - you get, if the carrier allows you to tether - it'll make sure you pay for it, and you'll be damn sure you can't install anything unofficial.

For a bit more advanced user, openness is great - once protections are bypassed (and they're bypassed on every device), ROM developers can turn those phones into whatever they want, and since the core of the system is open, you get all the services this core offers you, and carriers can't do a thing.

Not any different from the iPhone that the writer keeps comparing to.

The points are good and true as long as they're taken away from the context of that crappy and intentionally twisted article.
[Nexus One General] constellanation:
Siegler and arrington are horrible writers, I feel for the other writers at techcrunch because most of the others are good. But any article by those two I take as nothing more then trolling for ad hits, even if somewhere in their crap writing is a few valid points.

If they aren't paid directly by apple they have definite stock interest.
[Nexus One General] crachel:
He asks 1000 presumably non-average readers of TechCrunch why THEY chose Android and when they say "openness" he's no longer interested and wants to "consider the average consumer". Who knows what they think dude, they've been buying iPhones, go sit outside a strip mall and ask them? He is essentially arguing with himself here
[Nexus One General] SeEsAw12:
I'm pretty sure all the people who realize bloatware sucks have the knowledge to do some simple Google searches on how to use ADB.

Just sayin'...

AT&T doesn't put bloatware onto their iPhone's because it's ONLY on AT&T, that in itself is a crime. I guarantee once iPhone is available on other carriers it will have some sort of crap on it... and it won't be removable at all.

You don't even have to root your Android phone to remove crap
[Nexus One General] Rusty!:
In the UK the iPhone is available on all carriers, and there is nothing added to any of them, it's the same ROM for all, how it should be. It's one thing Apple have done right.
[Nexus One General] SeEsAw12:
Really? Well I take back what I said then.

Even though it SHOULDN'T be this way at all. Carriers can do what the hell they want. At least I have a choice between many phones other than just one.

Meh, maybe Gingerbread will change things. I don't think bloatware deteriorates the OS as a whole.. I just think it shouldn't be there... and it's very easy to remove anyway.
[Nexus One General] Blueman101:
Yeah, too bad our botched american system of using cell carriers isnt more similar to the way the rest of the world does it. Then everyone would be happi...(er)
[Nexus One General] SiNJiN76:
Do the android phones have carrier bloat in them or are they as vanilla as the iphones?
[Nexus One General] productofusa:
Free enterprise system at its finest!

EDIT: Not sayin' everyone else is commie....:p
[Nexus One General] greenstuffs:
Before getting a Nexus One, i made sure i researched what android OS is and even bought a used MT3G to root the hell out of it, unroot it, flash radios do all sorts of crap to it and learn as much as i want and now i can say i am pretty confident and things have gotten easier than before.

To get an android phone for my wife i have to wait 2-3 months after a phone is released to see how much support it gets from the community that is how sad android has turned into, the nexus one is great because is open, however i will not expect samsung, lg or any carrier having the intentions on supporting old phones because they don't make money.

If carriers keep butchering android people may start looking the other way.
[Nexus One General] Rusty!:
Android phones get bloatware/branding :(

O2 still haven't released 2.2 for the Desire over here, and Vodafone were in the middle of a huge ****storm when they released a branding OTA update when everyone was expecting Froyo.

Buying your own SIM free phone is the way forward.
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
Totally agree.

I would even argue that Android is worse, because you need to root in order to get the most out of it. That's the same as jailbreaking the iPhone (and at least you know that the hacking community for the iphone is going to be huge)
[Nexus One General] Blueman101:
not necessarily, android(non-rooted) lets you do so much more then a jalbroken iphone.

I will give the author credit for calling out Android's "openness", much like the recent net neutrality things going around, the word "open" is an absolute, something that Android is very close to but still isn't 100%. But still a hell of a lot more open the Apples Draconian Totalitarianism system of ruling its users.

What bugs me about this author is his constant smear campaign about android. I can understand not liking something but really?! This guy writes article after article holding Apple in the light and scorning Android for something, then what happens, all the Apple fans ***** and moan about this feature that Android has had for months if not years, then Apple takes that idea calls it revolutionary, markets the hell out of it, then this author writes an article about how Apple is even better with this new feature that he just condemned on the Android platform.
[Nexus One General] JanetPanic:
Android is open. Open does not mean it is easy for users to modify nor does it mean that products made over Android has to be open. Anyone can download the source and do what they will with android. Cyanogenmod is an example of a group of users doing what they want with AOSP. Similarly a phone manufacturer or wireless carrier can do whatever they want with it. What people seem to misunderstand is that the manufacturer and carrier are under no obligation to make it easy (or even possible) to modify the android install on a device or use the modifications they create.

This choice was on purpose. If Google went with GPL (forcing the carriers to open their modifications) it would not have been taken up by the carriers. You can argue if this is reasonable but the fact remains the conservative carriers would not take up a GPLd OS at this time. This does not mean the OS is not open, it simply means that the product that is created by a carrier is not in the control of the user.
[Nexus One General] behelit:
imo the article is fail, who uses stock roms?
[Nexus One General] ChongoDroid:
Iphone is open up here in canada as far as bloatware... Other then the odd rogers app you can download their is nothing from the carrier.
[Nexus One General] ccunningham83:
^ This

Android is open. If you don't like what the carriers are doing with their phones tell them in the only language they understand. Money. Don't buy their products. Stick to phones that run the plain vanilla Android and don't load bloatware on the phones. I would even try to stick to phones where they make it relatively easy to root the phone and flash custom recoveries.
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
I think the author makes a couple of good points:

1. Yes - android is open but in the way it is being implemented it is not more or less open than the iPhone.

2. Apple has a good thing going by not allowing the carriers to mess with their OS - maybe Google should do the same or require that the all the customized crap can be easily removed.

3. Carrier and manufacturer customization is a pain in the butt
[Nexus One General] ccunningham83:
I think all your points are valid except that the openness of it. It is being implemented exactly how it was designed to be. Open source is designed to allow anyone to take it and use it for free and do with it as they want. That is why so many manufacturers are using it. That is why you are seeing it on phones, televisions, tablets and more. The open source nature is why they can put their (crappy) UI's on top of it.

If a market doesn't exist for all the crap they put on the phones the phones won't sell well, and they will stop making them. If the phones do sell well then they will keep doing the same thing.
[Nexus One General] ericc191:
My gf is about to upgrade her ATT Tilt 2 to the Galaxy S (forget what ATT calls it) but when we went to look at it, it was jam packed with a bunch of crap. She doesn't want to root, either. Then I remembered, soon there will be another option. WP7. Which I believe carriers are only allowed to preinstall 6 apps that MS approves and they will be uninstallable. She's now waiting for one of those, instead.

I wonder how Microsoft sees this whole carrier exploitation of Google. And how will it affect WP7's success?
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
If MSFT drives the Apple line with carriers and manufacturers they might have a real winner on their hands. Android had a great opportunity on their hands the last 2 years but unless MS fumbles it, they might have missed their really big chance.

1. Android gets slaughtered by carriers and manufacturers

2. Android is unusable for business purposes or in a biz environment

3. Missing OS updates (issuing updates that many phones will never see or that first need to be approved by somebody doesn't count ... and this includes the N1 in certain countries)

4. In some instances android is less open that the iPhone
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
In response to that, one should ready today's article on engadget about hacked ROMs. All fair points:

I would also add that, while the community and the rom cookers on xda are great, who really knows what goes into a rom ... and what malicious code might be lurking in the background.
[Nexus One General] Jack_R1:
Let's see. That's what we have recovery and Nandroid for, no?

Not an official tool, but a first tool that you actually change and use on your phone. Before you get to custom ROMs, you go to custom recovery. In every guide, every ROM FAQ, every place it's always written - NANDROID BEFORE YOU PROCEED. If you're dumb enough not to take backup of the stock system before you start changing things - it's not Motorola and not Google to blame.

Maybe Droid X doesn't have recovery? Of course it does. So what do we have here, another wrongful whining? Of course! What else could someone expect...
[Nexus One General] bigmout:
Ayup. Jack_R1 nailed it.
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
Nice: pick 1 issue in the article and disregard the whole point that is actually being made.

Wow, are some fanboys dumb!
[Nexus One General] fubaya:
For some reason, this makes me suspect there will be at least one home screen icon for a free AOL trial. :p
[Nexus One General] Jack_R1:
The whole point is completely surrounding this 1 issue - which is THE issue that this article complains about, and it's 100% wrong. And I don't like reading articles from people that don't know enough about what they're writing.

Let's analyze.

1/2 of the length of this article describes the woes that the poor author had to go through to flash the original ROM he had started with. I think I had my original ROM for several months in nandroid, before I finally decided that the stock builds are available in abundance and I can erase mine. The author didn't keep his stock build, well knowing that there is no official build. What does it say about his knowledge of the subject? Nothing good.

Next, we finally get to the place where author is trying to make some point, "Google doesn't provide any way for you to return to the original Android experience" blah blah. Yes, that's the whole point - people might grow some brains and understand that Android isn't covered by Google, it's not Google proprietary software, it's OPEN SOURCE. Lots of people contribute to it, and lots of people can use it in lots of flavors, making each flavor different in any way they want from the "father" vanilla OS. Just as Android community tweaks the OS, manufacturers and carriers also tweak the OS. That's the way OPEN SOURCE works. Google doesn't sell Android - it delivers it FOR FREE, and thus all the "Android experience" talk is pure idiotic bullcrap.

It's a game of cat and mouse - carriers and manufacturers try to lock down the OS, developers and power users try to release it. Google has no say in the subject - it is a main contributor to the OS, it doesn't sell the OS, and it doesn't sell the phones that come with the OS or gain profit per phone that uses the OS. It doesn't even build the drivers for the devices that use the OS - manufacturers do. So how the hell would Google provide tools for recovery, when manufacturers aren't entitled to take anything from it and give it anything, and it doesn't even have the drivers for devices? And if manufacturers strive to lock down the platform - why the hell would they allow Google to insert something into the platform that disturbs them, and not just drop it, like the "unknown sources" was dropped by AT&T (at least)?

To sum it up: the author of this article doesn't understand 2 very basic things:

1) Google doesn't sell the OS, the OS is open source - so Google has no say in what the manufacturers using the OS insert or remove, publish or not publish. This is how GPLv2 works - you can't come with demands to someone that used your source, he doesn't owe you a thing. You are obliged to publish only the code that you've used as reference.

2) There is a recovery for each phone, that precedes flashing of ROMs and should be used for backup. Those not using it, might suffer.
[Nexus One General] DToX69:
Ah this is why I only buy phones running stock android os such as the Nexus One :P

I would NEVER buy a desktop computer from a store for those very reasons as I can build it and install a clean OS myself for less money and less headache

Now when I buy a laptop that's a different story I just buy it then format the hard drive and reinstall fresh :)
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
I have to admit that I do not follow what you are trying to say.

You are buying the N1 because it doesn't have crapware installed?
[Nexus One General] :
Nexus one doesn't come with stock android.
[Nexus One General] Chahk:
What exactly does it come with then?
[Nexus One General] :
Google's modified build of AOSP basecode.

All the clamoring for a "stock" "vanilla" version of android is ironic, since people are really clamoring for Google's version of aosp.

It may be the least modified version(by companies at least) out there, but it's still not "vanilla".

Vanilla android is barebones trash anyways.
[Nexus One General] Chahk:
I see your point. But you have to admit that even Google's version of AOSP beats the hell outta AT&T's or Motorola's crapware-laden, feature-stripped excuse of a build.
[Nexus One General] DToX69:
Exactly, and for JCopernicus when someone says stock android they mean the android google releases for us i'm not sure why anyone would want a complete barebone android that the other guy was talking about
[Nexus One General] dan1431:
I read the article and I do not know much about the author other than what I have read on this thread.

Thus, I tend to agree and agreed before I even read the article that it is the carriers that make open or semi-open platforms locked down. The minute I heard that 2.2 brought with it Hotspot access, I knew that the carriers were going to strip it out of their branded ROMs.

One reason I love my N1 so much is because the carriers have nothing and I mean nothing to do with it other than to provide service to it. Essentially at&t Mobility is a dumb pipe for me to utilize however I see fit, clearly something that they (the carriers) do not want to be.

One reason that I am annoyed that there is not going to be a Nexus Two is because I am loosing my Google designed and maintained device, a device that has nothing to do with the carriers whatsoever. I have always held the belief that the carriers told Google to kill off the N1 or else they were not going to carry Android.

Siegler may be a bad a writer, I have no idea, all I know is that he is right, openness requires everybody who offers the device/OS to be open. Clearly, the likes of VZW and at&t Mobility are intrinsically not open, no matter what they claim.

Dan
[Nexus One General] :
I just find it funny people love to ***** about the fact that companies put extra applications you can't remove.*

*unless it's google and google apps.

Android was never meant to be "vanilla" by anyone. It's entire foundation is based around the idea that anyone that grabs it, SHOULD modify. If the aosp gang wanted it to be "universal" it wouldn't exist as it does right now.
[Nexus One General] DToX69:
I understand what you mean, if google put apps I didn't like I would be upset and remove them anyway

I do not think google cannot do anything wrong just so far I prefer the google version of anything motorola has done for android
[Nexus One General] nexusdue:
Thought I might revive this since the whole Jobs/Rubin spat has apparently started another avalanche of articles about this topic:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/19/developer-joe-hewitt-tears-into-androids-definition-of-open/

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/10/is-android-open/
[Fascinate General] mdram-omnia:
vzw will only upgrade my primary line until end of november.

why would i buy one now, and then one later?

family plan lines do not qualify for early upgrades as they only pay 9.99 a month for access, the rest of the cost is credited to the main line.

meh, maybe by then i will want something else, oh well
[Fascinate General] Zennmaster:
Do you have any other lines on your plan that are eligible for upgrade?

My Fascinate is on my primary line, which isn't up for New Every Two for six more months. I have another line that had an available upgrade that I used to get it. It was really easy.
[Fascinate General] mdram-omnia:
oh i can get 1 for the primary line, its elgible, but my secondary line isnt.

im not gonna spend 199 now then 199 again later, not with a bogo

and the whole reason im upgrading is to get the wife a smartphone.

basically vzw doesnt want my money for 2 more months, go figure :)
[Fascinate General] xliderider:
I was in the same situation as you with only one upgrade available on a family plan. I decided to add a line to get the BOGO phone for my wife. We needed to add a line later anyway for our son, so it was a little early, but I think it was worth it to get the free phone.
[Fascinate General] mdram-omnia:
i have no reason to add a line, heck im thinking about ditching my landline i dont use. no kids, sooooo no new phone needed.

meh maybe by then the galaxy s2 will be out :)
[Fascinate General] xliderider:
Even if it does come out, you know Verizon is almost always last to the dance right? Unless it's a Verizon only exclusive phone, which the Galaxy S2 won't be. Verizon always takes so long validating and testing the phones and adding their bloatware to the phone that every other carrier has had the phone for months before Verizon releases their version.

OTH, I hear that there will be a Verizon version of the HTC Evo coming in December. ;)
[Fascinate General] mdram-omnia:
buzzkill :(
[Vibrant General] Mark271:
I am highly interested in this phone as a gaming device and I know it would be awesome to see this phone truly benchmarked video wise. The droidx beats it because of uncapped FPS even though it has a worse GPU.
[Vibrant General] boodies:
don't worry too much about it. 56 is a really good number. once more graphics intensive games come out, our phones will shine at 56 FPS while others will struggle.
[Vibrant General] speoples20:
I thought it was already determined that the FPS wasn't capped. I know on my phone when running quadrant it does go above 56 but seems to average around 56. Besides I don't see any games out right now that would benefit from high frame rates, except maybe ps1.
[Vibrant General] Mark271:
It is not the point of the games but if our fps is uncapped right now, the droidx gets more fps than our phone with a older model GPU. 60 FPS is all you need for games but Im saying, why would I want a SGS for video games with apparently a DroidX gpu is better according to benchmarking.
[Vibrant General] Shrivel:
I think the lower scores vs. the Droid 2 is more an indication of how lousy Quandrant is as a benchmark than any indication of the actual potential of the SGS.
[Vibrant General] s15274n:
^^

The droid X does NOT have a higher fps. I've tested one, an incredible, rooted/stock droid, nexus,etc....

None of these phones came close to 56.7 fps like the Vibrant.

Not sure where you got that, but it's incorrect.