yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Vibrant Android Development] jeremiah_mn:
I guess when I need a computer, I have a laptop or desktop for that. I don't see how something like this would be very valuable. More of a gimmick imo... what would be some practicle uses of it?
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
So why did u buy a phone that has a 4" screen?

If battery life is your concern, that's the last thing you should purchase.

Why would you buy a 3g phone?

If battery life is your concern, you should put the phone on edge, it extends your battery life.

Why would you buy a phone with a GPS?

If battery life is your concern, Having a phone with a GPS radio enabled uses your battery faster than one without GPS.

Why would you buy a phone with a 1GHz processor?

If battery life is your concern, you should go with a much lower clocked phone.

You sound like the perfect candidate for a regular phone(aka not Smartphone).

A regular phone features longer battery life, plus it doesn't bog you down with unnecessary things like 3g/wifi/big screen/GPS/fast processor.....

This thread was not meant for people who say, why.

It is meant for people who say, why not!

;)
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
why would you buy a phone with GPS and internet?

it's just a gimmick obviously

they have standalone GPS units for that, and you can use the internet when u get home....

:p

Why would you run Windows on a Mac?

They have windows based PCs for that :rolleyes:
[Vibrant Android Development] angryPirate12:
The world is only a matter of your perception. That isn't a dis or a dig at you, it just simply means that how you view the world is of your own opinion as is ours. Where you don't see anything but a waste of time in this concept, others see the potential. Whats oblivious to everyone is the implications such a feat can yield. It could very well be a giant waste of time, and at the same time it could be the starting point to the next generation of mobile computing.

But just because those of you who can't perceive the practicality in this doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, it just means its of no importance to you at this moment. So don't come here asking people why bother, or tell them its dumb to do it, just simply read whats being discussed until it stops being of interest to you and move on to something else that matters more to you than this.

With all that being said, we have pulled this topic way off track, and we should all stop talking the semantics beyond the motivation and let those who care about it get back to talking about how it can be done.
[Vibrant Android Development] jforme:
well said

2 words my friend, "well said".
[Vibrant Android Development] jeremiah_mn:
Well, i can do gps on a phone, plenty big enough of a screen, and everything needs internet these days as far as apps go. Enlighten me, what can you do on debian on a phone, that is a) practicle and b) something I can't just do in android?

I'm not saying it's a dumb idea, just wondering what the realistic applications would be? so far I haven't really seen any posted here. Mostly just seeing post of people saying that this would be cool, just for the sake of it being cool?
[Vibrant Android Development] lqaddict:
Why my buying decisions concern you I do not understand, moreover what it has to do with the subject on hand?

Just for you information, I bought the smartphone so I can stay close to my friends and family on the go with social networks, I use google maps on it to find the places nearby to take the ladies out, and if I need to see what others are saying about the place I am about to go I can easily access it, I use my cell phone as an mp3 player while on the bus, I read some news too and updates are faster via 3g then EDGE, so instead of carrying 6+ devices around me I chose one that is compact enough to fit in my pocket and you should admit that 4" SAMOLED display is gorgeous.

So if you got your smartphone to run full linux OS on - more power to you, I think you would be better off with a netbook.
[Vibrant Android Development] jeremiah_mn:
For all you people saying that others are just being negative when we ask why you would want this on your phone. I can't speak for others, but my comment was in response to the op's second post of this thread as seen below. So a) I think my comment was very much relavent, and b) I've still yet to see anyone talk about what they would do on their phone with this full fletched os other than say look what I can do.

I'm not surprised there is a lack of interest based on the fact you haven't shown anyone what the practicle use of something like this would be. I'm not suggesting there isn't one, just that nobody in this thread has mentioned one yet.
[Vibrant Android Development] the3dman:
One practical use would be to be able to make edits on roms/apps directly from your phone and be able to sign them and all. In a dual boot situation this would be great.
[Vibrant Android Development] igm503:
theres close to a flame war going on here;) while i agree it would be awesome to be able to have full fledged linux:D i think before any devs do this, more recourses are going to be focused on lag fixes and vanilla android roms etc. but the idea of this makes me antsy :D
[Vibrant Android Development] lqaddict:
Thank you! At least I see one reasonable idea. I take it there is no mobile Android SDK available to do it right within the Android OS on the phone.

Still will be strange to see a developer in a coffee shop hacking his phone up, but sure it is feasible.

One of the reasons I was bashed when I told a N900 user that I have an Android and it has linux underneath was that if I can X11 forward on my phone then I can call it running linux, but yeah X11 forwarding is what we are all doing nowadays on our phones :rolleyes:
[Vibrant Android Development] jeremiah_mn:
That sounds usefull, especially the dual boot part. Thanks for info. Not trying at all to start a flame war either. :) Would be extra sweet if you could dual boot a device like this into a full fletched os, use the usb/hdmi cable out to a monitor and then use wireless keyboard and mouse for input, would be like a whole (not extremely powerfull) computer to use with a regular size monitor.
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
angryPirate12 and scrizz,

thank you for your insight, I could not have explained it better myself!!

As for Lqaddict,

Thank you for this post,

You not only answered your own question you had asked in your very first post, but also might have enlightened yourself, read it again... You just explained to us all the reason's why you have a smart phone isntead of a basic phone, which is the same reasons many of us also purchase smart phones. The thing that amazes me is that it seems there should be limitations as to what to do this these powerful, pocket sized devices after all of your concerns have been met. Why shouldn't I be able to run Debian on my cellphone? Because it will kill my battery more quickly than using the slimmed down version of Linux (Android)? That seems like a personal problem I might have once we do get Debian up and running and not of your concern. I do thank you though for your concern but would much rather be having a conversation that contributes to what this thread was created for than going back and forth with "WHY" or "WHY NOT".

Honestly, it is only a matter of time till we have hand held computers like this. As you said before you are able to put 6+ devices into one? Why not add a full functioning computer? You wouldn't want to be able to only see you .mp3 files on your phone and not play them would you? So why would you want to limit yourself when you could have a full running computer as well?

Most importantly, cell phones are not necessities, they are wants, and I want what I want too :D
[Vibrant Android Development] lqaddict:
I am not saying you should or should not run Debian on the mobile phones. What I am pitching toward is why re-invent the wheel instead of improving the car?

I could definitely see Android evolve into a well rounded OS designed for the mobile applications, there are tools that I wish were available for it right now, like the mobile SDK with a compiler and the way to write, modify and run custom apps without the need to be connected to a PC. Don't get me wrong, I am not here to commandeer where the development should go.

As you can see by this thread the Debian interest hasn't spark a lot of attention, don't blame me for stealing the subject, etc. I posed a question and it got into "why or why not" discussion, and just a few people voiced their opinion why running full linux OS might benefit. IMHO, it helps overall development process, yes there will be selected few hackers who would port Ubuntu or any other Linux flavors for our phones for the fun factor.

IMHO, Android is what the embedded OS for the mobile devices should be, if you look at Maemo it's only found its way to Nokia devices, Apple is pushing their iOS (I am pretty sure some fan boys would love to run MacOS on their iPhones).

The best advantage Android has over their competitors is the availability on a variety of hardware.

Well, I should stop here since I took the discussion into the wrong turn. Sorry for the hijack, please continue...
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
lol, I still think you are missing a big part of the picture but yea, this has gotten way off of topic and I agree, this tangent is officially closed.
[Vibrant Android Development] jon6206:
i'd like to be able to run real torrent clients on my phone not just on my laptop. p2p sharing
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
Well actually aBTC works beautifully on the Vibrant. Could never get it to work on the good ol' G1 though. Try that app out.
[Vibrant Android Development] [[ Cold ]]:
this might be the first non off-topic post...

UBUNTU RUNNING IN A GALAXY S

http://blog.coralic.nl/2010/08/17/ubuntu-on-samsung-galaxy-s-android/

youtube vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWLOqVdtbkw
[Vibrant Android Development] jon6206:
i'll try it but i see a lot of negative comments and sounds like its the same issues as with the rest of the clients on the market that i've tried to stay away from... any positive personal experience downloading 700mb avi files? i understand it may work well for mp3s and smaller file sizes but thats not really what im interested in
[Vibrant Android Development] jon6206:
Classy

10 char
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
WOW, well thank you very much!! I guess I didn't look hard enough. This is awsome, will be getting this up and running tonight and will be showing some screens :):)

Thanks [[ Cold ]]
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
yup, this is great!

maybe i should get an HD2 just to have linux on it!
[Vibrant Android Development] itsjusttim:
Write that would be great once working! Now all we need is a bluetooth keyboard and mouse that will actually connect with our phones..

Typos/Nonsense due to Swype!

Stock Rooted + RyanZA LagFix
[Vibrant Android Development] microfire21:
I am looking into a linux build with the little time I have and with that latest post for linux on the galaxy I will see what I can pull off with his script and tweak it for the vibrant...that said I don't have a lot of time to do dev work on this but I will post each update I get...and once working maybe I will write an app to do the config/launch for it once working some friends of mine have a working app to launch and stop linux for the samsung moment on sprint....but that's just for later on down the road...let's cross our fingers here and hope all goes well.
[Vibrant Android Development] masterotaku:
People *use* GPS and internet on their phones....and have been for quite a number of years. And all those "desktopy" things people are alluding to but not quite discussing, well they are done pretty well on Android as it is.

I'm still not sure how Debian would make this a better experience.

And besides, if we were to replace "Debian" with "Windows" in the OP, people would DEFINITELY AND IMMEDIATELY consider this a gimmick. Debian doesn't get a free pass in the "why" department just because it's not Windows. In the capability department Windows is arguably superior, simply because there is more development on that platform. Windows Embedded DOMINATES the embedded market because of this. The ease with which you can tailor make a debian or linux distribution to fit your needs matters only to smaller specialty firms and "tweakers" who just have to have it there way. I know this all too well.

There is merit in doing things for the sake of doing them. I've built custom firewall, server, and media center Linux distro's before myself (for instance) even though I could have saved myself a ton of time and effort going with something more generic and ubiquitous. But being honest with myself, the personal adventure I was on in these endeavors was half the point, and bought me next to nothing functionally or practically.

If more people were interested in Debian, this would be happening. It appears that it currently isn't happening. That may well change, and cheers to whomever chooses to pick up such a project. But whether or not there is interest is at least partially a separate issue from "why".

Realistically there are just NOT a lot of valid reasons for even a vocal minority to find a full desktop distribution of Debian useful. Most of the things you could claim were practical and worthwhile "need based" reasons would either be things you could as easily do under Android already, or things you could do far more productively on a laptop or desktop. And much of this is due to the form factor of the average Smartphone. These devices lend themselves to the OS's that are on them, otherwise why would people even bother buying them?

Just be honest here that those who want to see something like this, want to see it for the sake of seeing it. Very little in the way of practical reasons make any sense. And that's ok. Who needs to be practical all the time? :)
[Vibrant Android Development] lqaddict:
Oh man, you just opened up a whole lot of can of worms.... I'm eager to see the statistical data proving windows embedded is dominating embedded OS market.

You can PM me, so that we do not pollute this thread.
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
Yeah, like going to the moon was very practical :rolleyes:

But thanks to that endeavor, we now enjoy a multitude of technologies :p

Does it matter if it's practical or not? No

Is it costing you anything? No

So don't hinder any development.

Thank You.
[Vibrant Android Development] PSP_Hacker:
Impossible, because WINE is not an emulator.

W.I.N.E. = Wine Is Not an Emulator

WINE is only a compatibility layer to run Windows programs. It's not emulating another architecture at all.

Windows is an x86 operating system. Linux is, among many other things, an x86 operating system too. Your PC is an x86 machine... So the Windows program is running on your machine just as it would on Windows, but W.I.N.E. is taking care of the Windows-specific stuff like the interface and other things.

Check this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)

Your phone is ARM. So first, you would have to get an ARM-compiled virtual machine to emulate x86, then you can run Windows, or Linux with WINE.

That's a crap-load of trouble to go through, and it's slow. But... I've seen a Nokia internet tablet run Windows 95 in a VM, so maybe it can be ported to work with Android.
[Vibrant Android Development] masterotaku:
There is no need for protracted debate. Microsoft is the largest player in the embedded sector and has been for some time with Windows Embedded and W.E. Compact with about a third of the overall market and far more than that in the 15 inch and larger display format sector. It's not hard data to find so if you choose to not believe it..... no sleep is lost. And I apologize for detailing the thread with an attempt at balance and perspective.
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
ok, So I have big time FAIL trying to create the ubuntu.img

I was able to, but during the process I did see just a handful of errors, wasn't sure if that was going to affect anything or nut, but probably did. Or I just failed completely on doing something or by missing something else. Pushed it to my phone, than ran the StartA script, while getting kicked back a message about the device being busy or some sort. I gave up there. I just don't got enough time to try and troubleshoot anything right now. Hopefully someone will get it going and can upload a working image. At that point I will populate a how to and links to the files, while giving all due credit :)

Also, microfire21 good luck mate!
[Vibrant Android Development] itsjusttim:
I personally can't await to get this up and running..

Typos/Nonsense due to Swype!

Stock Rooted + RyanZA LagFix
[Vibrant Android Development] microfire21:
Well been trying the build with ubuntu 10.4 but still getting errors might bump back to 9 and see if the errors slow down...that and a few more tweaks of my script work and we might get full linux on our vibes...
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
Yup same here. On 10.4 and keep getting errors..

The bad thing about is that it takes more than a hour for each build. I just don't have the time :(

I guess I have to wait till someone with the know how can do it.
[Vibrant Android Development] danielmid84:
I know it's not Debian, sort of, but here is a link to a page that helped me get Ubuntu up and running on my Vibrant. I had to tweak the bootubuntu script he had provided with some tweaks the Nexus guys were using, so I attached my tweaked version, REMOVE THE .ZIP FROM THE END BEFORE USE. Currently my phone is installing LXDE and I will update with a screenshot once it finishes.

http://nexusonehacks.net/nexus-one-hacks/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-nexus-oneandroid/
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
Awsome!

I will be trying this right now!
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
danielmid84 !!

Hah, you are the man! It works flawlessly, and was so easy. Thank you so much for the custom modified script and the great link. I will be adding a quick and easy how to guide with this, thanks so much.
[Vibrant Android Development] danielmid84:
Glad I could help!
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
Well I ran into a small little snag. I have ubuntu running fine, can access it through adb shell and terminal emulator. I think something might have happened when installing lxde or with tightvncserver. When I connecting using the vnc client, I did get gray screen and a on screen prompt, with an error about something which I don't remember now. All I had was the mouse and a gray screen. So I rebooted, and tried vncserver -geometry 1024x800 again, and I get this "tightvnc server localhost:1 is taken because of /tmp/.X1-lock" and cannot connect to it anymore. So I removed tightvncserver and reinstalled, but still get the same error. Will be trying to fix this but if anyone can give a hand that would be great.

*FIXED*

ok, so each time you start "vncserver -geometry..." I guess it starts a new instance? So I cd /tmp, do a "ls -la" and seen a few files. I "rm .X1-lock", but the didn't fix anything. I then "rm .X11-unix and .ICE-unix" plus all of the .X#-lock files, and are now able to login with a vnc client perfectly.
[Vibrant Android Development] wergeld:
I got the same thing: grey screen and X cursor. I noticed when trying to remove the X-11 dir you mentioned that there is all kinds of ASCII puke in my ADB shell terminal:

I did remove the .X11-unix dir and tried to vnc back in but it still shows the grey screen.

Any ideas?

Tried rebooting my phone and I cannot get the 'bootubuntu' command to work. Keeps saying 'bootubuntu: not found'
[Vibrant Android Development] itsjusttim:
Any idea if I can get poker stars running on this? If so I will donate to whoever made this happen..
[Vibrant Android Development] maydaysos:
is it 3d accelerated. Can we install beryl or compiz, that would be sick,
[Vibrant Android Development] rahduke:
awesome work man, 11.04 will also be fully multitouch compatible, running netbook remix w/ multitouch would really be insane..... good things to come meest thinks
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
wergeld ,

I will tell you what I did, and maybe it might work but no guarantee.

I actually deleted all of the .X-lock files, the .X-unix folder, and some .ICE... folder. To remove the folders issue "rm -rf 'foldername' ".

I also did this command "apt-get purge tightvncserver" and reinstalled with "apt-get install tightvncserver".

I also rebooted my phone. Try doing these things first.

After you do that, adb shell back into your phone. Do a "ls" in the ubuntu folder under /sdcard/ubuntu to see if bootubuntu file is there. If not, for some reason it has been deleted. You will need to copy back over that file.

Then do this:

su

bootubuntu

export USER=root

vncserver -geometry 1024x800

and that should get you to be able to login with Android VNC, let me know
[Vibrant Android Development] jzero88:
Not sure what games will work, or what you can actually do yet.. but I do know I couldn't get firefox up and running. Forgot what error I got when trying to start it from the terminal but yeah, just try it :)
[Vibrant Android Development] tortugasthebest:
so when i try this it gives me the x cursor and a box that says "there is a problem with the configuration server. (/usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check-2 exited with status 256)"
[Vibrant Android Development] Chalup:
I was having the same problem as you two: blank screen with mouse cursor. To fix it, I also deleted the .X#-lock files and .X11-unix dir.

Then from a terminal on my phone I ran "bootubuntu" then from within ubuntu "export USER=root" and "vncserver -geometry 800x480". Then it worked fine :)
[Vibrant Android Development] wergeld:
Unable to delete those .X-11 items due to the jacked up characters. See my post for examples. I even nuked the ubuntu files and re downloaded the zip file. Same issue. I think that the step to modify the xstartup is fubar on my phone. All kinds of ascii puke. Not sure what else to try.
[Vibrant Android Development] dsuycott:
scrizz

"The real question is why not....

I'm sick and tired of all the negative posts in the xda forums.

why would you want camera on a phone?

why would you play games on a phone?

why would you read webpages on a phone?

why would you text on a phone?

why would you listen to music on a phone?

why would you want to go to the moon?

Is it affecting you in some way?

does someone sacrifice a kitten somewhere when someone wants to use a device for something it was not intended to?

do you enjoy stifling development?"

===

agreed..i'm no programmer/expert in any of this madness but i can implement what you all come up with and enjoy the end results, and fell the pain! :) ...i have appreciated and respected/worshiped the abilities of the hacking and phreaking community since the mid '70s, that lovely Captain Crunch Whistle!!! 2600hz started it all for me, and my local radio shack...Tandy at the time i believe...too many lost brain cells! my philosophy on all of this is, if it is there...**** with it!!! you may find something incredibly valuable along the way... On Ward Silicon Soldiers of the Dark!!! I need you!!! and support you!!!
[Vibrant Android Development] iflyabeech:
Thats not Ubuntu on a phone, thats a phone using vnc to connect to and display a computer running ubuntu. lol---my phone can run Windows 7 this way too! lol
[Vibrant Android Development] scrizz:
WOW!

you really need to learn alot b4 u start spewing BS!

Do you even know what localhost IS?

it is running on the phone. The phone is connecting to itself....
[Vibrant Android Development] xplanowestx:
Evidently he doesn't understand the basics of a computer/network.