yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] microhaxo:
I will be switching to WP7 from android because of consistency and responsiveness. Android is great but it always feels like its not quite finished. And im always trying to make it better. Everything just isn't quite as polished as it should be code wise. To me the Phone aspect of a phone should be the number one priority, and in android it's not.

experiencing 1 to 2 force closes a week should be unacceptable, but we for some reason tolerate it on android.

WP7 will be refreshing and a reintroduction of a SOLID phone that just so happens to have great other features (I hope this is what my experience is).
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I was making a generalization. Of course there's numerous reasons why a given person would choose Android over iPhone. But all of the things you cited are also true of WM and it isn't exactly killing iPhone/Android.

Not a chance in hell. If WP7 "fails" (which I'm all but certain it won't), Microsoft will keep dumping money into it til it succeeds. See: Xbox.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Irishpride:
WP7 just seems so damn boring, one my favorite things about Andoid is the widgets. I love having everything right on my homescreen(or 7). That is something that WinMo has never had and will never have. To put it lightly, they are boring.

When it comes to the mobile phone market, people have all but forgotten about WinMo, they are irrelevant and will continue to be so. Android is the new kid on the block with all the cool toys(devices) and all the cool friends(developers).

I used to be a huge supporter of WinMo, but ever since my first Android device, the Droid, I have not looked back.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
You seem to imply that WP7 is the same, or even similar, to WM6. In many ways, Android is more closely related to WM6 than WP7 is. WP7 has live tiles that operate in a somewhat similar fashion to widgets, just more simiplified.

So yea, WM is dead. But WP7 is a whole new OS that has a great chance of success. Telegraph thinks so.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
It's absolutely not dead. I has huge possibilities and huge app market.

WP7 is just beginning, and we don't know how well it will go....

WM will stay with people like me for some time because it has all WP7 is missing

at launch. And is probably the most open and flexible.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Unless you're in a market that's not supported by WP7, I doubt we'll see any new hardware. While XDA-types will cling to WM for a while I'm sure, the rest of the world, including mainstream developers, has already moved on to WP7. So yea, it's not dead for a few niche areas, for the general public it most certainly is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] KidTech:
I currently have the N1 and like android a lot the widgets are very usefull. I'm looking forward to WP7 because of the hubs and Xbox and Zune intergation also the U.I does look more polished compared to android, but android 3.0 will have U.I overhaul.

Also will WP7 phones have free GPS like android phones?
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Yes. It has Bing maps navigation.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
In this regard yes, we will not see any new WM devices.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Mithent:
I'll keep an eye on WP7 to see how it develops, but for now I've moved from WM6.5 to Android.

There are some things I like about WP7, certainly - the strong UI design in particular. But as it's been announced now, it's not something I want to buy into - restrictions like no multitasking and (I believe?) no officially-sanctioned sideloading push it into an iPhone-esque territory I'm uncomfortable with.

Hopefully the platform will evolve past those limitations and then I'll consider it for my next phone. For now, though, I'm liking Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] emuneee:
I too went android after using Windows Mobile 6.1/6.5 on my xperia x1. I am however paying very close attention to windows phone 7 because it looks good. It is missing several features I consider deal breakers but it's only at version 1. I am confident Microsoft will add many new features and by the time my ATT contract is up, I'm sure windows phone 7 will be one of the leading smart phone OS's.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
No, it's a functional smartphone OS that is better than iOS. And Android phones are better than the iPhone (the high end ones at least).

The problem with WP7 is that it's got the exact same issues that made WM and Android users not choose the iPhone.

Someone who has been mocking the iPhone all the time for its ridiculous lack of multitasking or the censored AppStore can't choose WP7 - unless he's a die-hard MS fanboy.

Btw. I consider myself a MS fan, because they make lots of good stuff, but nevertheless I always choose the product that works best for me. I chose not to buy the iPhone (well, I tried and sold it), because of its limitations and I can not buy a WP7 phone until MS gets rid of those pathetic limitations.

I think it's OK if someone chooses an iPhone or a WP7 phone, because he thinks it works best for him.

What I find pathetic is the behavior of some people, including members of this forum and writers at sites like WMPoweruser or WMExperts, who have been clinging to their WM phones and ridiculing the iPhone for years and now suddenly behave just like the iPhone fanboys, trying to find excuses for the lack of basic features etc.

If they enable multitasking, shared storage and sideloading, I'll buy one. And really, enabling those things is just a switch of a button, there's no excuse.

A usable browser would be nice as well, not that IE7/8 crap.

Until then, I'll use WP7-skinned Android, because it is the better OS hands-down.

@paperclips

Try "Menu --> Add" or "Long Press --> Add" on the home screen. Much easier than going to the respective apps, like in WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
That's not a good representation really.

When Apple released the iphone they said for years that multitasking isn't really needed. Then ended up releasing it years later. MS has a different stance, basically they know and see the need but just haven't implemented it yet. That's a pretty big difference, imo.

So if you really love the OS, you can get it now, and wait for that updates comes down the pipeline. But if you can't stand not having multitasking, you'll just wait till they release it then adopt it.

Also we don't really know how MS will run their appstore. They promise a more transparent experience than apple, but we'll have to wait and see on that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
MS has already shown waaayyyy more transparency than Apple ever thought of.

Multitasking will come. It's just a matter of time. Shared storage will probably come as well. Not sure how they'll implement that. Side loading is available for developers. Not sure why anyone else really needs it. It's not like it's hard to become a dev. Microsoft wants there to be one definitive place for all WP7 apps, not have them sprinkled across the internet like it is with WM6. The process of finding, downloading, and installing a WM6 app is annoying and labor intensive at best. That's if you can even find what you're looking for.

Right now if you want a smartphone that works well you have iPhone or Android. And even Android has lots of issues (some devices suck ass, the UI is a bit confusing, occasionally lags and gets quirky even on the best devices, etc). WP7 brings the "it just works" aspects of the iPhone and combines it with the multiple carriers and hardware options of Android. It has lots of other things going for it like an awesome SDK (although somewhat limited) and dev tools.

Plenty of reasons to choose WP7 over Android. But it won't be for everyone. If you really have to have side loading, external memory card support, and multitasking, you're better off with Android. Noone ever said that EVERYONE has to pick WP7. I, for one, put those capabilities rather low on the totem pole.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gerryjoson:
So you've been using a platform for at least 4 years that doesn't work well for you?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wunderwaffe:
The end result is the same: no multitasking and it is the end result that matters to consumers, not the philosophy behind it.

Why doesn't MS implement multitasking, knowing that it was a major criticism to one of its major adversaries? IMO it is an unnecessary shot in the foot. BTW, I do love WM, but in certain aspects WM7 feels like a step back. I think I'll keep my WM6.5 for the time being.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
That's the typical fanboy blabla. If it's not there, nobody needs it.

Just stop it. Do you really want to be as pathetic as an Apple fanboy? Really?

I'm pretty sure all of you have been mocking the iPhone for its lack of basic features - for good reason, because the lack of multitasking or the censorship are ridiculous! The exact same limitations in WP7 are just as ridiculous and there is no excuse.

Don't be hypocrites.

Why haven't you all bought iPhones? Why are you still using WM if the 'just works' is more important to you than basic features like multitasking?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
You are absolutely right, with one caveat. What matters to users is not a check in the feature list but the ability of the phone to do what they need it to do. So if you listen to this Pandora thingie everyone is writing about, you certainly don't want a WP7 device. I hardly even know what Pandora is, and I'm not interested. What else? Well, I need to quickly switch back to my satnav app when I get an incoming call while navigating. That was a PITA on the iPhone, and WP7 handles that quite well. The problem with the iPhone is, and always has been, the fact that neither the UI nor the hardware were built to handle multitasking and fast switching between apps, which is more or less taken care of in WP7.

Right now in WM I have two programs that run in background apart from the built-in ones. One is Seven, which I need because WM only supports one Exchange account. Another one is my own utility which corrects crappy handling of phone buttons in HD2. WP7 will handle multiple Exchange accounts natively, the button problem won't exist there and OEMs won't be able to create any mess like this anymore, thank goodness.

So that's it. I don't need multitasking for anything else really if the built-in music player is good.

Now, do I consider lack of multitasking a drawback? Yes, I do. Beside the core use cases I talked about, it might come handy. But is it something that would prevent me from buying a phone? Hell no. There are bigger problems with WP7 from my perspective than this.

What's unreasonable about this approach, pray tell? Should I really go through feature checklists and reject any device that doesn't have something? Or should I think about how I personally use the phone and see if it'll work?

Moreover, every single OS has drawbacks, and you know what, even if I did care about multitasking ten times more than I do, Android would be a crappy option because I can't freaking use its Market where I live, being limited to free/ad-supported software there. So even if it has the most marvellous multitasking in the world it's useless for me. WP7 already supports more regions than Android approaching v3. Just to name one slight problem. I'm not choosing between the perfect OS and less than perfect ones. I'm choosing between several imperfect options.

And finally, not everyone ridiculed the iPhone for lack of multitasking.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Didn't you mix something up there? The iPhone now (finally) has fast app switching, WP7 has not (only 'back').

True and with that many restrictions, pretty much every user will find something that WP7 can't do.

You are not using an iPhone, right? Why? If 'just works' is more important to you than basic features, why are you still using WM?

I don't know whether you ridiculed the iPhone, but apparently you didn't buy one. Buying WP7 if you decided not to buy an iPhone makes no sense, because WP7 is the exact same thing with a nicer design.

And that is a drawback of the OS how? How has that anything to do with the OS?

Can't find real drawbacks in Android, so you had to mention this? Will WP7 launch in your country?

(Russia is not one of the countries WP7 will launch in)

Not surprising, because there are no drawbacks in Android. Some things are not perfect, but at least everything is there.

(and until WP7 gets the basic features, Android will probably be more than perfect - whatever that means)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
That's why Android has fast app switching AND a back button.

WP7 and iPhone have drawbacks. They do some things well, but fail to cover everyone's needs. Android doesn't have drawbacks. It fulfils everyone's needs, it has every feature, it does everything, it allows you to do everything. It has fast app switching and a back button.

Sure I would like it to look as good as WP7. But in the end, it's all about whether it works and Android is the only OS that works for every user, in every situation.

A beautiful design is good, but first, the OS has to work.

Except Android...

To be honest with you, I doubt that you are able to think rationally when deciding for a phone.

No, not fanboyish. But definitely not rational either, not at all.

I'll tell you what I think. You're not a fanboy, you're a hateboy or something like that. Irrational like a fanboy, but instead of irrationally loving and defending one product, you irrationally hate others, like Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wunderwaffe:
From what I've been reading on this thread, I'm going to keep my HD2 with WM6.5 for a long time.

Why? One thing I like about WM is the ability to syncronize contacts, e-mails, tasks and calendar with my pc's Outlook. I depend on Outlook on my daily life. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Android doesn't have this ability. So, appart from WM, there are no options in this department.

Second, 6.5 apps won't work in WM7. I'm sure that in the beggining there will be apps that I use on 6.5 that will not be available in WM7. The fact that I must install apps from the marketplace also bothers me. The mandatory Marketplace and iTunes are some of the things that always kept me away from Apple products.

Third, WM7 doesn't seem to be as easily customizable with 3rd party apps like WM6.5 (again correct me if I'm wrong). I love apps like Cookie's Home Tab and BStweaks and I'm afraid that those kind of apps will not be available in WM7.

Overall, I get the feeling that MS felt that they should copycat Apple because they were doing so well at the time WM7 was planned. However, they did't realize that they won't be able to draw iPhone costumers away from Apple and they might lose some of the ones they have left, because they are taking away the freedom that WM6 gave. I would love to see WM take back its market share, but I don't think WM7 is the way to go. In many ways, like multitasking, it feels like a step back.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
With some Android phones you can, some OEMs have software for this, like HTC Sync.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
True that. If WP7 works for you, buy it. If it doesn't, don't buy it. No need to defend it, it's got inexcusable limitations. If you can live with them, fine. Just don't try to excuse them, cause you can't.

(and I'm primarily speaking to the fanboys, not you, vangrieg)

The problem I have with the fanboys is, they try to defend shortcomings that are simply inexcusable. Sure, not everyone needs multitasking. But that's not an argument to remove it. Not everyone cares about the sideloading. But that's not an excuse.

Why are the limitations people have been mocking the iPhone for now suddenly not a problem anymore? That's not true, they still are a problem and an even bigger one than in 2007.

I like Microsoft, I like the Metro design, but there's no excuse for the lack of basic functionality. And that means there is no rational reason to choose WP7 over Android, which is the better OS in almost every aspect.

Well, Android does all of this now. I don't know how long it will take until someone comes up with a good satnav app for WP7. I also use my device for car navigation a lot, in landscape mode, which is not supported by WP7. I think if I want to go from the satnav app to the Zune player and back, that involves going back to the home screen, the Zune hub etc. - lots of steps, much too complicated to do while driving.

Android not only works in landscape, it also features a car dock mode and the easiest way to switch between satnav - music - traffic info - phone etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wunderwaffe:
What??? WM7 does no support landscape mode? Are you sure? WTF??? What is MS doing? A downgrade from WM6? :confused:
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Not the only downgrade, sadly.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well, I know that at least one developer will have a satnav app at launch. Can't say which one. Also, I can't have it in Android now. Remember, I have no access to paid apps. So it's about the same as WP7 at this point for me.

I prefer portrait, but regardless, landscape is of course supported and fully available to developers, with autorotation or manual rotation or whatever way they want to implement it.

Actually you don't need to do anything like that. Zune controls are available without exiting the foreground application, in the notification area. WP7 also supports Bluetooth AVRCP profile so if your car is decently equipped you can control it from the steering wheel.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
I understand that and if that's your reason not to buy an Android now I understand that as well.

But then you won't be able to get WP7 either. And it's definitely not a reason to hate Android, cause it's not the fault of the OS.

Developers, yes, but not the OS. If you want to go from satnav to music or a traffic info app, you have to go back to the home screen first, which does not work in landscape. Zune, the contact list or the phone don't work in landscape either, afaik.

Also, switching between applications is much too complicated (go back to the homescreen, scroll down or go to the app list etc.).

It just doesn't work for navigation/music/phone while driving, because it's way too complicated (and doesn't support landscape).

Useless if I want to switch playlists, artists or find a particular song.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It certainly works for music/navigation because, like I said, you can control Zune without leaving your satnav app. Both Phone and Zune are available from the homescreen should you need to go there. Getting back to satnav is as easy as hitting the back button. Don't know about landscape in Zune. But anyway, this is much better thought through than was (and often is) the case with the iPhone in this area.

In general though I agree that switching between apps needs more work in WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
You can launch Zune from there, pick your artist and hit Back. In the worst case scenario, you go to the home screen, launch Zune, pick your artist and hit Back, I think. Just as you do with the dialer.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Yes and that's

1) much too complicated and

2) the home screen, like Zune and the dialer, don't work in landscape mode.

If you could go to the Zune player from that dropdown menu, that would be at least something, but still too little.

And I really don't understand why they can't simply put an option in there to enable landscape mode and make a menu for switching between apps. That's so easy... just like enabling multitasking or sideloading.

It's not like those things haven't been done before...

That is of course true, but the iPhone is no benchmark. That thing sucks. ;)

(and it'll never have more than 15% market share anyway... more like 5%... luring iPhone users is not that lucrative, they should aim at a bigger audience)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
WP7 locked OS, but several phones. No hardware innovation from manufactures. Just different shapes better screens and faster CPUs. Same OS though!

Biggest plus to me for WP7 is the games, but Sony will be introducing the PSP like phone with Android. So games on Android will get better.

But WP7 biggest competitor is not Android. They have obviously targeted Apple again.

You guys also forgot about WebOS. They are not to be forgotten.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wunderwaffe:
:D

(I'm not an iPhone hater, I just think it is the most hyped and worst value for money phone ever)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
It sells though, and this is MS goal.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Wrong target, Apple already lost. Android will own the market in a few months.

Then they have to options:

1) Attack Android

2) Lure new users

They can forget about 1)

2) is still an option, as long as the market is growing fast. But as more and more users have smartphones, the expectations are growing as well. Can WP7 meet those expectations?

In its current form, I'm not sure it can. With smartphones getting better, more and more people demand features like multitasking. It wasn't a requirement in 2007, but it certainly is in 2011.

And don't expect Google to sit there and wait for Microsoft to catch up. The next Android release is only a few months away and if they improve the UI, add a music service and maybe even games, what's left for WP7?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Not really. Its market share is only 14%. Android already has 17% and by the end of 2010, it will have 35% or more.

There are 200,000 Android devices sold each day and that number is growing fast. Apple sells 100,000.

9 million devices per quarter is enough for Apple, because they make the hardware. For comparison, HTC sold 5.7 million.

But Microsoft needs to sell a lot more... even if every iPhone user switches to WP7, that won't be enough for Microsoft. They need to attract new users (or Android users, but I doubt they can do that).

With all the media buzz, people tend to think Apple leads the smartphone market, but the reality is, Apple is hardly relevant anymore. Apple is just one manufacturer out of many (the most profitable, yes, but the platform market share will be rather small).
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Correct with this post. ^

Google is changing everything with Gingerbread. UI, minimum specs etc....
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Work well is relative. It works well enough in a vaccuum but it's pretty outdated and kludgy when you compare it to Android, iPhone, and WP7. It was good for four years ago. The sad thing is that it's hardly been updated since.

Developers need it. Anyone else who needs it can pay the $100 (or $0 if they're a student) and do it too. It's not like NOONE can do it. Also, what makes you think it won't be hacked? This is a forum about hacking and people keep getting caught up in the vendors not having it unlocked from the start. There's no hacking needed if it's already fully opened up. Do people get mad at Google for not giving everyone root on all the phones from the factory?

You seem to think that everyone that uses Android is a power user like yourself and others on this forum I know of at least 5 people personally that have Android phones (2 heros, 3 Evo 4Gs) and not a single one is a "power user". None of them really care about things like side loading or true multitasking. They're all in their 20s so a big part of the target demo for smartphones. WP7 will appeal to these people and people like them.

It will be interesting to see how much they lock down Android in order to do this. While I don't think it will be as tight as WP7, it will certainly be more in that direction.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Really sad, yes. Could've easily been the best OS today...

If it needs to be hacked to do basic stuff, they blew it...

No.

You fail to understand that normal users care about that stuff, too. They don't know what it is or how it works, but they notice the differences (e.g. when their straming music stops playing or their satnav app stops when they navigate away etc.).