yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
I'm fairly sure that the Milliampere-hour (mAh) is the capacity of the battery (the amount of energy it will store). How can you get "over 1500mAh" on a 1400 mAh battery? None of you are making any sense what so ever. You can't get more energy out of a battery by charging it a specific way. If I gave you a bucket that held 10lbs of sand and you filled it with 8lbs of sand and waited a few minutes then started filling the rest slowly, it wont hold more sand. This is nothing more than a placebo effect. The only way to get more time from a battery is to reduce the amount of consumption. The only way to do that is to use your phone less or make your hardware use the battery less such as undervolting your CPU. I tried for the longest time to explain to people that underclocking your CPU does absolutely nothing. If you're still running at the same voltage you're still consuming the same amount of power.
[Nexus One General] pzumk:
Stop messing around with the battery and the battery stats.

Could someone please use the phone until it goes off in the evening? What percentage is shown on the batteryicon when it goes off? 20% or what? ;)
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Actually it's not a good idea to fully discharge the phone often.

Source: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/
[Nexus One General] pzumk:
I know but once isnt often.

Btw we have some great battery threads here.. somewhere.. general or accessories forums..
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Yeah, http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=669497
[Nexus One General] akejriwal:
I have been using ultimate juice defender and battery life has doubled with usual usage. Maybe this can be considered as an alternative to longer battery life
[Nexus One General] Goonish:
I use OS monitor, within the log section you'll find mAh details.
[Nexus One General] walliester:
OK it's weird ,but true, i try it exactly as you said, when my phones was 90% this morning, i plug it in the usb charged for like 20 minutes and turn it back on and it last me 100 % till noon, i use it on net for about 5 to 10 minutes, looking for some address,and then talk a bout 50 minute from early in the morning 7am to noon when i got home @ 2:30pm there was only 92 % so yes it does work ,i don't have any clues why but i have left my phone over night charging and and in the morning when i leave to work it say 95% with out using it for a minute... so yes its true about the battery charging tips, thanks bro....
[Nexus One General] ardatdat:
Nice to hear that it works for you. :)
[Nexus One General] khaytsus:
When I was a kid my first car I knew I had just a hair below the mid-way line on the fuel gauge before it was out of gas.. Even, uh, confirmed it was out of gas at that point a few times...

I suggest you actually see if the phone will continue to discharge linearly to emtpy, I suspect you'll find the phone dies unexpectedly because the battery meter is horribly miscalibrated now.
[Nexus One General] walliester:
well about the gas in the car i use sometimes on empty, i mean it shows the all the way down to E and i still use it for miles but this has nothing to do with topic!!! ....and you're point is ???????
[Nexus One General] Macrophage001:
I think that he was trying to say that if you use this method and you mess with the battery the way the OP instructed then the battery percentage shown might not be what it actually is.

Someone should do a test and see if this actually works or if it's just a placebo effect.

To whomever wants to give it a go:

Try deleting the battery stats after you do this battery saving tip and see if it still shows 100% or if it re-calibrated to show the correct battery level.
[Nexus One General] ardatdat:
If you think the above method is useless to you or you do not like it, just don't use it.

I have used this method for a long time from day to day and the battery is still good. What I experienced is a longer battery life with all day use from 8am to 10pm at night. Usually, if I am not playing games a lot, the battery still shows over 40% at 10pm at night and I will charge it to 100% before I go to bed.

If, as you said, the battery is somehow affected, I would prefer changing to another battery. BUT I strongly believe that I will change the phone before the battery wear out.

We are using the Nexus phone in which the battery can be changed anytime (not like IP3/4), so why bother the battery?.

I personally don't like taking the back cover and change the battery so often, so I prefer a longer battery life per charge.
[Nexus One General] khaytsus:
I said nothing about the battery being affected, I have good confidence that the battery/charge subsystem in the Nexus One won't overcharge the battery.

I have several times specifically said the battery meter is likely being affected. It's really simple.. I suppose I could attempt an ASCII drawing since some people insist on being obtuse (walliester)

.....................0%---------------------------------100% <-- let's say this is your normal battery, and real battery capacity

0%----------X----------------------------------100% <-- this is your miscalibration

Hopefully that lines up reasonably well... I had to use periods to space out the first one, ignore them...

The miscalibrated bar "looks longer", "stays at 100% longer" but in reality it's going to run out of power at the same time, marked at X, but maybe at 20% rather than 0%.

Maybe I can try this another way.... The battery is 1400mAh, assuming the phone uses that as a percentage, a truly calibrated battery will be 100% at 1400. If it shows it's 100% at 1000mAh, it's miscalibrated. The phone isn't going to show it's 140% charged, so it'll show 100% charged from 1400 down to 1000.

I'd say this thread is useless without runtimes, but everyone uses their phone so different it's pointless. One persons usage will drain the phone in 3 hours, others 20 hours, others could get days.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Not only that, one person uses their phone differently every day (no matter how much you deny it). There is absolutely no factual information to back this up because it can't be proven. Scientifically, it will not work. You can mis-calibrate the battery all day to make it look like it works longer but it does not. It's a simple battery, it holds a certain amount of energy that you can use you can't get more energy out of it, you can't put more energy in it. Your energy usage is based on the voltage that the hardware is using. If the specifications stay the same for the voltage used, you're not getting more energy from the battery. I really don't know why the devs allow you to post this nonsense in the forums. It's scientifically proven to be false. You have no real, factual information nor will you ever. Judging by your posts it seems that you don't really understand the operations of a lithium ION battery so maybe you should read into that and understand how the battery works before you try to manipulate it to "get more energy".

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-31.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Charging_procedure

Isidor Buchmann is the founder and CEO of Cadex Electronics Inc., in Vancouver BC. Mr. Buchmann has a background in radio communications and has studied the behavior of rechargeable batteries in practical, everyday applications for two decades. Award winning author of many articles and books on batteries, Mr. Buchmann has delivered technical papers around the world.

Nothing he says in any of his information says anything about what you're doing. He goes through a lot of charging strategies and how to get the best out of your LI battery and never once does he say anything about what you're doing.
[Nexus One General] Clob:
All correct. Any other illogical argument about battery life is simply incorrect. :cool:
[Nexus One General] pzumk:
no one?!

/10chars
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
my battery always dies at 8% or 10%. it has never gone down to 0% like other people.
[Nexus One General] :
Nobodies battery will do that.

Lithium ion batteries turn themselves off anywhere between 5-15% in order to protect the battery. Running it to real zero will kill the battery.

If you do have a battery that only shuts off at zero percent, you need a new battery.
[Nexus One General] benman27:
What you are doing is bypassing the battery protection to increase the voltage, however the potential energy of the battery does not increase.

If it takes longer to drop off from 100% all this means is it will discharge from 100% to 0 faster.

Also, yet the mAh level can not be measured accurately, the software had to calculate this from the mV.

Can you try this again but plot the mV level every ten minutes?
[Nexus One General] flarbear:
The reading you see on the screen is a virtual reading. It can say 0% at any time and that has nothing to do with the battery reaching the danger zone.

They do turn themselves off before they reach a critical state that would jeopardize their internals, but that has nothing to do with when the phone says 0%. That numerical reading is based on electronics that are trying to estimate when the shutoff will occur and when they are miscalibrated then it happens earlier (or sometimes later) than they advertise with their predictive numbers.
[Nexus One General] Goonish:
It's called bump charging and it does actually get a few more mAh into the battery.

Because android has a safeguard which stops the charging within the OS at around 90-95%.

This method WORKS.
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Care to prove it? Do you have any credentials? You saying it works doesn't mean anything more than me saying it doesn't.
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
Plenty of people here have nexus ones that go all the way down to 0% before they shut off.
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
I still haven't seen I good explanation why most nights my battery charges to 1361 mAh but every once in a while it goes all the way up to 1425 mAh. On the days when it goes up that high, my battery stays at 100% for the first 2 hours with no use. And after 4 hours its still at 95%.

When I check the dmesg log in OS monitor, I can easily track the mAh decreasing over those hours normally. So its actually legitimately using the extra power that was given from the charge. And on the days where it only goes to 1361 mAh the log clearly shows the mAh dropping from that point, and the battery loses percentage faster since it started with less power.

Why is this difference happening? I charge the same way every night, phone on, plugged in and I go to bed. The only thing I can see is when I drain the battery to around 30% before charging it kicks in with a different stage of charging. Lithium ion batteries have 3 stages of charging. But the nights I start charging at 70%, it uses a different charging stage which just doesn't put as much juice and not top it off with the full 1425 mAh. That's the only thing I can think of.
[Nexus One General] :
As mentioned before, a lithium ion battery will not do that.

(I'm talking about actual charge and not reported charge).
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
Have you read batteryuniversity? You're talking about an app displaying something. Once a month try draining your battery to nothing then fully charging it. Try not to drain it all the way very often or you will kill it.
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
Yes I've read that in depth months ago and again just recently. That's why my only guess is I'm kicking it into t.e full 3 stages of charging by letting the battery drain close to empty, rather then only using 2 of the 3 stages when doing simple top offs at 70% or so.

And the percentage scale is only numbers roughly guessing the battery charge. But monitoring and tracking the mAh and voltage readings from the dmesg log or pulling from current_now (via nifty new power draw widget) is at least much more quantitative. These values are what the phone's actually seeing and basing its operation upon.

If we're going to question the integrity of how accurate those readings are, then that's fine (though I personally think they are near dead-on accurate). But when comparing in a controlled environment with the same variables and same device like I do, the numbers then become very valid and accurate and they provide a solid baseline which used to track battery info.

I'd still love to figure out what the difference is with my battery charging. To throw a third variable into the mix, sometimes when I do attain 1420 mAh during charging, the dmesg log drops down to 1361 mAh the instant the charger turns off when its full. And for the new 4 hours till I wake up it stays flat at 1361 mAh the whole night with the same voltage.

Why would it sometimes drop back down? Why sometimes does it reach full capacity, but mostly it does not?
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
Right I'm just talking about what the phone reads. The battery doesn't even get close to truly being discharged as they built safety precautions into the hardware. I'd guess it blocks it from going even below 3.4 volts but that's not the lowest a lithium ion battery can go. That's a big safety range with lots of room left before the battery would be empty, and could cause permanent damage to The battery cells.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
so how am i able to get 1500? I'll take a picture next time cause dont believe
[Nexus One General] bmj1086:
You're talking about something that can't evenly be measured daily. There is no controlled environment. It is logically impossible for your phone to run the exact same way it did the day before. I'm not doubting what you're saying. I'm saying that the science behind the operations of a battery prove that what you're doing to the battery is nothing more than tricking your phone into believing that it has more power when it is physically impossible to hold more power.

I'm not doubting that you can see 1500mAh on the application that displays information. I can create an application that will tell me I have 2500mAh. No, I'm not saying that the application is that insane. I'm saying that the application does not know the exact mAh of the battery but it takes a guess based on logical information. Do you have a laptop? If you do, unplug the A/C power and hover your mouse over the battery icon (any OS should be fine) and it will tell you how much time you have left of battery life. That is NOT an exact measurement. It's a mathematical equation used to make an educated guess to get an accurate description of the amount of time you have left to run on battery. In fact, if you sit down and test that time left you will probably notice that it will never be 100% accurate. My laptop battery is pretty much shot and only lasts about 20 minutes. If I look at my battery when I first unplug it, it says I have 2 hours left because it's basing the information off of a healthy battery.

You can't always believe what you see. The battery is a 1400mAh battery and absolutely cannot hold 1500mAh. That's just basic logics and basic battery knowledge. If you don't believe what I'm telling you find an engineer who specializes in the field and ask them. (And please don't go to Best Buy and ask the electronics employee, I mean a real engineer not a teenager who has an electronics job)
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
the whole point is WHY is the software getting such different readings. here's what i am saying, i hope this is clear. for 10 days straight i use my phone the same way, and for 10 days straight my phone charges up to 1361mAh every night, like clockwork, no questions asked i can easily predict it. it does it over and over. then all of the sudden, one night it happens to go up to 1425mAh, and that particular day my battery life improves so dramatically that i still have full charge at lunch time.

then the day after that, it goes back down to 1361mAh and continues like that for another 10 days, hitting 1361mAh over and over. why?

me personally actually believe the readings are fairly accurate, but that point aside, why is this difference happening? why can i see an actual performance difference between the above scenarios?
[Nexus One General] flarbear:
It can be measured.

It just isn't statistically valid given a single day's results.

These people have a good idea of how well their batteries last that they've internalized over a few months of using the device. That history is a valid measurement, as subjective as it is.

One day of "perceived better behavior" isn't statistically valid to prove a change, especially given psychological factors involved in trying anything new. But, if they live with it for a few weeks and notice better behavior over the course of that time, then that becomes a valid observation. It may be highly subjective, but it isn't irrelevant.

So, you are correct in that most of the people are reporting success based on something that isn't valid, but you can't say that these measurements will never be valid because averages over time do show statistical results that can be trusted (provided the observer is careful enough to note their own biases and make sure they account for them).

I'm just saying that the "provability" here is somewhere in between these extremes... "I'm sure I see a difference" -> "You can never tell if it's different"...
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Look I'm telling you guys that when I get 1500, I get improved battery life. The reading is not off, you guys just don't believe it cause you never seen it before. Look I'll take a picture and export some logs next time if I can. I did it on two batteries while on stock and unrooted.

I NOTICE a increase in my battery life too. So the numbers can not be wrong, my phone stays on 100% for a extra two to six hours depending on how I'm using it and after that it drains like regular except I got extra hours.
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
Yes and when you the log you can see the mAh readings decrease over those hours showing its actually using power and not some graphical glitch.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Yep exactly ..
[Nexus One General] Goonish:
I get these same symptoms when using an extended battery, bump charging or a "lucky" charge. No more then 1400~mAh is registered by the percentage counter within OS. I definity notice the 3300mAh though, in the logs mAh really doesn't lie, even if it is inaccurate. :)
[Nexus One General] khaytsus:
So you're saying with an extended battery, say 2800mAh, you don't see it drop below 100% until the battery is 50%? Sounds like the battery is badly designed.
[Nexus One General] Goonish:
No. I'm saying that the android OS doesn't visually register more than 1400mAh regardless of capacity..

Geddit?
[Nexus One General] ram130:
yea exactly, it shows 100% after a certain mAh is reach..but it does not lie if i get 1500, it stay on 100% until it reaches that amount(maybe 1300?) and then starts counting down like normal( 99,98, 97..)
[Nexus One General] xxsashixx:
Thanks this works a charm!

I'm running CM6RC3 with the following:

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=745248

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=693375 (2.6.35_SVS-925mV_CFS_1113Mhz_081010.zip)

SetCPU at 998/248 interactive governor. 100% still after 2 hours of standby and some music streaming over 3G.

I found out that if I charge my phone while its turned on to about 96-97% then charge it via power for about 17-18mins turned off, it works better, might be better for some people as well.

Again thanks :-)
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
i've been doing some experimenting today. i finally tried the "bump charging" method where you turn the phone off when you charge it up. sure enough i was able to get it right up to 1414 mAh with usable charge. i've owned this phone 5-6 months now, and not once have i ever turned it off during charging, and i always max out at 1361 mAh most every time (except the few lucky charges).

my theory is the OS clearly has its own parameters it uses to shut off the charger. and then the battery clearly has its own hard-coded fail-safe parameters or circuitry built in which stops the charger at a pre-defined known value. i think these 2 are not in sync. i am incluined to say that i completely trust the hard-coded battery circuitry when the phone is turned off. it obviously was designed to fill up to maximum capacity during charge. i think the OS is taking over and interfering with this and stopping the phone from ever going above 1361 mAh for whatever reason i dont know, that's my first question.

secondly, i admit, i did not follow the advice when i first bought the device. i turned it on right away and started playing with it. i did NOT plug it in with the phone off for a few hours first. i think that first charge is meant to align the OS reading to the battery's hard-coded full-charge reading.

so it ocurred to me that when we want to wipe our battery stats, we dont have to do any full discharging and all that stuff. all we need to do is charge to full with the phone turned off, then wipe battery stats. this now resets the OS full charge mark with the battery's hard-coded full-charge mark. at least that's my theory.

also, i've posted before that my battery has ALWAYS shut off at 8% battery. since day one it has never gone down to zero percent. i bet its because i screwed up my initial charge cycle. let's see, 1424 - 1361 mAh = 5% approximately. so its possible that this whole time my battery reading has been 5% off, or really 5% below its full capacity.

to explain it a different way, my phone has always thought it was "full" when it hit 1361 mAh because the OS was doing the decision making. really the battery is full at 1424 mAh, so i've been missing out on that top capacity. so everything shifts down by 63 mAh.

anyway its just a theory, who knows for sure. but i am going to try and get up as high as i can and wipe battery stats without any full discharge and see how that goes...

EDIT: that still doesnt explain how on those rare occasions i am able to get up to 1420 mAh while leaving the phone ON during charging overnight. i have no explanation for why that could sometimes happen, but majority of the time it does not. it truly is a "lucky charge". something within the OS battery algorithms is acting differently during those times. i'd like to know what.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
And they say my 1500mah was a joke..dwl

Great theory! Gonna try getting 1500 again and wipe the stats and see how it goes. Right now after the initial wipe, battery goes all the way down to 1-2% then after 2 more charges, it starts shutting off at around 8%..So gonna try what you said and see if helps..
[Nexus One General] khaytsus:
1500 is quite a bit higher than 1408. But yes, continue to make the battery overcharge and spend lot of time fooling with it, shutting it down to charge, plugging it in and out... I'll just keep using my phone normally.. :rolleyes:
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
well i had some very bad results from yesterday. i dont have time to post right now, i'll update later today. but here's what ended up happening (screenshot below). hint: the screenshot discharge, shut off EXACTLY at 15%, and during charging jumped from 85% immediately to 100%.

i'll post logs later.
[Nexus One General] pzumk:
What app is that?

#########

btw have ya'll seen this? http://www.sizzledcore.com/2010/08/17/boost-htc-desire-battery-life/#more-9795
[Nexus One General] khaytsus:
System Panel. And as for that post, same basic nonsense in the middle of this thread.
[Nexus One General] ram130:
Not such a bad thing when you realize the benefits..
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
yeah i said i would post my logcat along with it, that was just a quick update because i'm busy all day. i'll go into more detail for sure. geez
[Nexus One General] RogerPodacter:
yeah that's the "bump charging" people talk about around the forum. and that is what my screenshot above is from. i did this last night, and so far i thinking that this is all crap based on the tests i did. it just fools your sensor but doesnt actually give any extended battery life. that's what i'm finding so far.
[Nexus One General] khaytsus:
My "same nonsense" was referring to the Bump Charging link, not to your info/screenshot etc..