yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Being open-minded is good, but after having tried out a WP7 phone, I must conclude that it's indeed a disaster (as was to be expected, but one should first try things before rejecting them).

Sorry, but WP7 just can't compete. There's nothing in it that would justify choosing it over Android, which has both the better UI and more features.

Since even die-hard WP7 fanboys fail to come up with any convincing reason, I must conclude that my conclusion that WP7 is unable to compete is indeed right.

Let's wait for Microsoft's next try.

(Despite that the world doesn't really need another platform, because anyone can fork Android, remove the google stuff, add their own stuff - e.g. Bing and Hotmail)
[Windows Phone 7 General] shoemeistah:
I agree on that it should work right for parents right out the box. But android does this, everything functions... But you can just improve it more and in a quick easy way.

At least you're able to set it up and completely customize it to your own taste. Both are great OS but I just have a personal preference.
[Windows Phone 7 General] The Gate Keeper:
it's true that android offers it, but with all the small flavour differences, saying here's a few android phones, and then showing them a samsung, a htc, a motorolla, etc, seeing that they're all a bit different can throw off people. But also that is one of the things i like about Android, they allow the savvy minded to do what they want. But then support slips a bit because taking a phone back for help can be a bit hard as not everything is in the same place. That is where XDA helps, but XDA scares most of the general public :P.
[Windows Phone 7 General] The Gate Keeper:
response to point 1: don't apps get rejected for not doing what their intended purpose was for?

response to point 2: have you ever tried to help anyone who is technically challenged? Whether that be mobile or computer, many will not bother looking and just click grant. You cannot say that this is a stupid user and that they would presume it is suspecious activity.

response to point 3: the way Apple/MS are doing it is that they're saying that they'll ensure your phone/privacy is protected. Can you tell me of an Apple/MS application which does data mine your phone?

Integration is limited in WP true, but this is more due to the API still maturing.

As for your response to the UI, I believe this comes down to personal preference. What you may feel is a waste of space, others may feel differently.

I believe the animation in WP are a lot more fluid and snappy compared to iOS, and really there is very little delay in it so I'm guessing on your Android you have it set to no animation? Again, personal preference, though in supporting your argument for this, they could allow a switch in settings to turn off animations, which would make you happy in this regard?

I don't really have a response for reason 2 as I would need to play with a windows phone first (it's in the mail) to know what a decent response is to this, but I do agree with you that they should provide some form of USB factor which I do find very useful with my current windows mobile 6.5. But I do not believe you should need a full file system, but merely a way to allow some of the phone's storage to be used as a generic USB device, which the phone can also tap into.

There is very little need for third-party apps to run as multi-tasked, and they deem battery life more important than allowing third party apps to chew up ram. But aye, to each their own.

I'm not sure I would say the phone is un-userfriendly, or not throught through at all and severely lacking... I'm sure MS has done their bit and had it heavily tested.

I didn't say you broguht up the bloat thing, i said predator did. Can you tell me 1 phone besides the Nexus One or G2 which isn't bloated up?

And I guess this is where our differences come together with your final point... "You simply buy the phone you like. ... However, you don't have to buy them.". This is the exact same for different OS as well isn't it? If you don't like it, don't buy it? No need to rubbish it or have a vendetta against it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
That doesn't mean that they can't sell your data. According to this report, 39 out of 57 top iOS apps send the unique device ID and data to the developer or advertisers:

http://www.pskl.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/iPhone-Applications-Privacy-Issues.pdf

None of them got rejected.

Sorry, but it's kinda naive to think that Microsoft or Apple would do anything agains data mining.

(after all they both run their own ad networks and need data)

As I said, they both run their own ad networks, just like Google. Apple, for example, has been collecting location (!) data from all iOS users since 2007 and only recently told their users about it. I don't see how that's any better than other "data miners".

Nope. I'm actually a big fan of animations, as long as they serve a purpose.

That means, they should tell the user that something is going on, or for example that he's reached the end of a list.

However, either WP7 apps take really long to load, or the animations are just too long, which is not good at all.

In fact reason #2 is the biggest issue with WP7.

I haven't noticed that so far. I don't think that multitasking has any measurable effect on battery life.

(as long as there's no bug that makes an app go crazy)

Well, I do. I think WP7 is highly un-userfriendly, mainly because of the storage issue (do you like to email stuff to yourself?), but also because of artificial limitations and UI issues.

The G1 and G2, the Samsung i7500 and i5700, the Motorola Droid and the Motorola XT720.

(some of them aren't sold anymore, I know)
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Oh and actually I didn't want to get too deep into this. The thread asked "Why take WP7 over Android" and I thought I'd give an answer.

(which is, there is no reason)

I don't think answering a question is wrong and I think my answer was well-founded (contrary to the flaming of some WP7 "advocates").

So, yeah, just tried to answer the question from my point of view as someone who's generally open to all new stuff, has tried WP7 and knows "a bit" about mobile operating systems.

Sorry if I hurt any fanboy feelings. :D I just can't say WP7 is competitive when it's not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] The Gate Keeper:
naw tomhierl, i definitely respect your point of view and I think it's good for someone to put a torch to the limitations as well. All good. I just felt that some of the points you raised were more personal preference over actual problems. Things like UI really comes down to personal preference, not so much a flaw/disaster in the way the phone operates.

And in my opinion I think it is competitive and provides another style of smart phone which I believe should be welcomed competition to the industry and will hopefully shake up some of the bigger players into producing further advancements on their platforms.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
Well, I am not to say the WP7 is not competitive, it is introduced even with its load of issue about the right time. The hardware specs for the phones are high now, who could've imagined their little phone can pack as hoursepower as a two year old laptop for instance.

Competition is good, it will only push other OS maintainers to make them better.

As for the original question, it is a personal choice, and I choose Android for the sole purpose that it is an open-source model, some find that whatever MS decided for the users is good is enough. But it is not enough for me :D

Sure my Vibrant was manufactured with broken legs (RFS filesystem that Samsung developed based on FAT32, hello???), but with the development underway I can make my phone what I wanted it to be on the release day - some users are not savvy enough to dive into the modding, and tinkering with the OS, so WP7 or iOS device is a better alternative for them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Wandy_1974:
After spending years and years of tweaking, flashing, cooking, JTAGs on bricked phone......WP7 give me a reason to abandon all that and just focus on using it out of the box, kinda tired of tweaks really. I will not even bother to attempt to tweak the look (if I could).
[Windows Phone 7 General] sylau90:
For your reference only,United States-based security firm Coverity has uncovered 88 "high risk" defects in the latest version of Android, which is used by more than a third of the operating system's users.

click here for full report...there is a 29pages full report(in PDF),so you can download it and read

http://www.zdnet.com.au/android-froyo-is-security-soft-339307046.htm

Anyway, I love the transitions and animations of WP7...
[Windows Phone 7 General] ericc191:
Am I the only one who is sick of seeing all these stupid links posted about "high security risks." All operating systems have security risks.

I've seen link after link of the same BS. Show me a story about a user who actually got screwed by one of these security risks. Please. I'm serious.. I want to know if anyone's had their bank account information stolen off their phone, for example.
[Windows Phone 7 General] sylau90:
Agree,Same here...hope someone can share their experiences...being hacked or scammed...lol
[Windows Phone 7 General] addicus:
Actually I hope no one can share their experiences of being hacked or scammed because that would be a total friggin nightmare on a ppc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] -WP7User-:
I think it's a question that everyone has to ask himself. You can't just say WP7 is better or worse than Android because of this or that. I don't like the WP7-Style. Too minimalistic. I had an iPhone 3G/3GS, now I have a HTC Desire and I tested the HTC7 Trophy for a few hours. And I've got to say that I like Android best, because of the Widgets and if you have a HTC Phone, HTC Sense. The Widgets really make my life easier. If I want to look what's up next, I just go to my Homescreen and I've got my calendar widget there for example.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Omega Ra:
I'm with you on this one. I have flashed and tweaked my Omnia's so many times, and it is fun for a week or so, then I get the phone where I like and leave it. So if I can have a phone that is nice, smooth and fairly functional (for me anyway) right out of the box I will be happy.

I have played with Android phones, and I admit, they are pretty slick. In fact I like the Droid X and in fact if I were to get a droid it would probably be that one. That being said, while using the droid (with froyo) I don't really see anything all that revolutionary about the UI, it just reminds me of WM with SPB mobile shell, which I used for a while when 3.5 first came out. Sure it was neat at first, but it just wasn't for me, and neither is Android. I have also messed around a little with the iPhone and again, it is smooth and polished, but I have never been much of a Mac guy, and I just don't feel the iPhone is for me. Forget about Blackberry altogether...hate that OS. So that leaves WM (which I am currently on) and WP7, which I am looking forward to. I like the smoothness of the UI, but I will admit, at first I thought it was pretty ugly too, but it has grown on me and the integration of the Live services has me intrigued. Plus it looks like it will be a pretty decent gaming platform.

I can wait for copy/paste as I don't use it much, I know flash is coming so I will be glad when it gets there, I don't need a file explorer all that much (though I do agree with people about adding in some form of it without system access). So say what you like, but totally trashing another OS just because you like yours more is ridiculous. To each their own and be done with it. If you don't like the OS don't buy it, and stay with Android. The Android OS isn't going anywhere and neither is WP7 or iOS, so just deal with it and let's all stop arguing like children.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
This is almost exactly how I feel. Sure it has been fun, but seeing how that train is coming to an end probably for 6.5 and really seeing WP7 be soo much smoother, faster, reliable, and easier to just get things done, I look forward to whatever hacks and tweaks may come out for WP7, but to have a device that just works out of the box will be wonderful.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
WP7 doesn't really work out of the box. For example, you can't have the files you want on the phone without hacking (bummer if you're someone who likes reading ebooks for example).

There are so many things in WP7 that don't work out of the box.

Android does work 100% out of the box. No tweaking or hacking necessary. Android "just works" out of the box, without jailbraking or annoying workarounds for simple things.

(but of course you can tweak/hack if you want)
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
I disagree here.

Why would you want to put files on the device? I've come from android, I had the G1 when it first came out and upgraded to the desire on its launch. The only time I put files on the device was for music and pictures (which is done in wp7 by zune), roms for both emulators and the device (no emulators in wp7 yet and no need to flash roms). This also leads me to say, I don't really understand why people want file access.

Android doesn't work 100% out of the box, you'll need to download a file manager if you want one. Depending on what version you have, you'll have to download a whole load of apps before you actually use it. Yes you don't need to hack it or anything but it doesn't just work out the box.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Because I want to open them? Jeeez.

I'm putting files onto the device all the time, for example scientific papers I have to review.

Android works 100% out of the box.

You don't need to download or hack anything, it just works.

And at least you CAN download a file manager if you want. But you don't NEED to download one, Android works fine out of the box without it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lqaddict:
It all depends on the individual needs, I don't feel comfortable emailing 25+MB tarballs from home to work and back when I work on a project, so my phone serves me as a flash drive, but it is my individual use.

You might not need it and have an external hdd for that, but I travel light between home and work.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Android doesn't need to be hacked or require workarounds in order to do basic stuff. That's why Android works 100% out of the box.

By "works out of the box" I mean that the basic stuff is there, for example the ability to open any file!

You CAN (obviously) download all sorts of add-ons for Android. But the important fact here is that you DON'T HAVE TO.

Android works out of the box without any hacks, workarounds or additional downloads.

You don't have to download additional stuff.

You don't have to jailbreak.

You don't have to find workarounds.

WP7 does NOT work out of the box, because you HAVE TO find workarounds or hacks for basic features.

You have to download additional stuff.

You have to jailbreak.

You have to find workarounds.

Of course you can download additional stuff for Android, but the basic stuff is there out of the box - unlike in WP7!

That's the important difference.

And don't tell me "nobody wants to have content on the phone". Copying ANY type of file onto the phone is a basic feature, period.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
The only thing WP7 doesn't have in terms of "working out the box" is a file browser, and to get that on Android you need to download one which negates your "works without additional downloads" comment.

Fair enough, there is a stop gap as you can upload files to skydrive and access them there but this obviously isn't as good as the android solution. Although, I honestly believe the average user has no need for a file manager.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
Ahh good point, I didn't think of that.

It is a bit of a downer that you can't use it as a flash drive, yeah.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
No, it's not about a file browser! A file browser is NOT a basic feature.

Copying ANY type of file onto the phone IS a basic feature!

Normal people don't want a file browser, but they want to be able to view their files (any files!) on the phone.

Android does that out of the box. WP7 does not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
"Normal" people are happy with the ability to sync pictures, videos and music to their phone. They don't necessarily want or are bothered by seeing an entire folder, it's contents, and putting other files on the phone.

For this function, Zune works fine.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
You don't get it, do you? A file browser and the ability to sync ANY content are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. One is not basic, the other is!

Normal people don't need file browsers and folders (that's why Android doesn't come with one!), but they need their content.

MORE than just music and videos!

Let's just leave it at that:

WP7 does NOT "just work" out of the box, because it requires additional workarounds/hacks in order to do basic things.

Android DOES "just work" out of the box, because it does NOT require additional workarounds/hacks.

Of course you CAN hack Android and add stuff, but you don't have to - that's why it works out of the box and WP7 does not. Period.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
The point that I am trying to make is that Normal people don't want to sync any content, all they care about is media. Syncing any file isn't a basic feature, it's a luxury imo, something that Android is fortunate enough to have.

Also, calm down with the caps and bold words, it makes you sound incredibly arrogant tbh.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
It is a basic feature, period.

(and it was just one example of how WP7 does NOT work out of the box - whereas Android does)
[Windows Phone 7 General] rexian:
Guys, you need to stop feeding to the trolls. This guy is totally clueless about any mobile system, I doubt he even has an Android phone. Just plagiarizing BS from here and there.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
Are you talking about me there? :confused:
[Windows Phone 7 General] rexian:
Nope, tomhierl.
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Well, as I said before, rexian, you won't succeed in reducing this thread to absurdity this way. I'm not going to stoop to that level.

I don't have to, because your flaming is enough of a proof that I'm right and you don't have anything to contribute.

I hope you realize that I am the one who has arguments and facts, and you are the one who's just attacking me because you have nothing.

I'll give you an advice: Don't call someone else a troll when you're the one who has nothing to contribute but flaming. How about some arguments? Oh, I forgot: You're flaming because you have none.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
In your opinion, yes. In mine, no.

Although, taking that into account, I fail to see how in any other way WP7 does not work out of the box?
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Well, how about quickly turning off/on wireless modules?

Today someone asked me about the HTC Mozart vs. the Desire in a shop. I did NOT tell him anything bad about WP7 (I promise), but he decided to get the Desire, because of that feature. Apparently that's something normal people want (go figure).

And of course the obvious things, multitasking, app switching, Flash, HTML5 etc.

(even if they don't even know what those are, but they will feel the results of not having those)

Of course not everyone needs those features, but as soon as some normal people (i.e. non-geeks) need them, they should be there.

Otherwise you can't say it "just works".
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
I don't really know what you mean about turning off wireless modules. But Multitasking, App Switching etc don't stop the phone from working "out the box". There is limited multitasking but yes it would be nice to have it and I hope it's coming soon.

Flash and HTML5 are coming soon, Android hasn't had them for long, not everyone is on 2.2 either. The Xperia X10 is still on 1.6... it doesn't even have voice dialling.

Remember windows phone is still in it's infancy, and while it lacks things that Android may have, it makes up for it in a wide of different features. I'd put them equal and honestly wouldn't rank either above the other.

It's a good start for something that's new... Back on Android 1.1 we didn't even have an onscreen keyboard.
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Know what I think? WP7 looks like its going to be successful, probably very successful. All over the net android fans are springing up trying to tell the world that WP7 is bad and that android is better and should be chosen over WP7. They point out the missing features in WP7 repeatedly, holding them up as beacons of how android is so vastly superior and anyone not of that opinion is somehow mentally impaired, trying to convince people not to "go" WP7.

However what they always fail to mention is what WP7 actually DOES give you, like Xbox gaming with achievements, Zune music player and Zune pass, builtin Office and Sharepoint, OneNote skydrive syncing, Facebook integration, a new UI and application paradigm, a consistent platform for developers couple with tools that are almost universally loved.

What is clear though is that even in its current state, anyone who has actually USED the OS more often than not ends up liking it, even to the extent there was a so-called prominent apple fan that proclaimed a preference for it. Funnily enough, virtually no one outside of forums like these is being convinced by the arguments for the so-called "superior" OS, android and though there are stock shortages it looks like demand for WP7 is actually quite good and with improvements to the OS will probably be higher in the future. And what happens when MS updates the OS to add most of the missing features being decried today, do the detractors continue on with their anti-WP7 crusade? No OS today is perfect, and WP7 will get better, do android fans actually think this is the state WP7 will be in forever?

So one has to ask, why do android fans persist in this campaign, trying to turn people away from WP7? Are you being paid by google? Do you just hate everything MS? Or you cant stand the fact that not everyone agrees with you about your "precious"? Because like it or not, there are billions of people on this planet, and not everyone is going to share the same opinion or tastes so will choose what they think is best for them. Why not just allow others to make their own choices, and you enjoy the choice you made rather than trying to force others to see your point of view?
[Windows Phone 7 General] tomhierl:
Why are you WP7 fanboys so paranoid? There is no campaign.

If a thread asks "why choose WP7 over Android", what's wrong with giving an honest answer?

Nobody hates Microsoft. Nobody is paid by Google. Nobody is trying to force anyone. People are just giving honest answers to questions they're asked.

Whenever someone gives a (most of the time well founded) answer that you don't like, you're going crazy. Stop being so paranoid. Nobody is trying to kill WP7. If anything, criticism will help make WP7 better.

Oh and by the way, I have actually used it for a week and did not end up liking it.

And besides gaming, there's nothing in your list that Android doesn't have. That's not a whole lot speaking for WP7, considering all the downsides.

And who cares that WP7 will get better? It's not like Android won't get better as well (and likely a lot faster than WP7).