yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Desire General] th3:
andycted: The app WiFi Keyboard :P

Only kidding. I use a well tweaked HTC_IME basically. The calibration or whatever that gets it working so well with my hands just works and usually I type some, save it in Springpad, and then might continue every time I get a chance in the day over 2-3 days, as was the case here. Productivity is awesome when you have apps like SendtoComputer, ChrometoPhone, FoxtoPhone and Springpad at your disposal.

As to these super-low-power RISC Cores; they work similar to x86 super-high-performance PC Cores internally after you reach the macro-op decode and micro-op execution stage but there are gross lengthy differences within the rest of the functional details. I haven't seen a pipeline daigram of any ARMv7 implementation to see what they're currently doing.

patp: You know during the course of this thread, and taking two research studies as well as another Google funded and supported study, we established when the Desire is sub-30% CPU load [edited to correct] to idle, plus 75% of the device power draw is solely attributed to the OLED display. This is corroborated by independent empirical measurements. That percentage increases as you increase brightness and change the displayed image on-screen. Now, making calls and data networks also have a relatively high power usage, but, they are momentary and on-demand only. WiFi/3G data only consumes much power when data is being transferred. 2G-3G cell only consumes much power when network search/registration/wait/fix is initiatied. The screens high power is always there no matter what you do as long as you have the screen on.

foxmeister: Perfectly right, and well corrected. It was a reckless mistake when scrolling up/down editing last minute. I'm well aware the Scorpion Core was based off the ARM licensed architecture and developed top to bottom in-house, even the power and pipeline characteristsics are different, but that just totally slipped my mind while editing the lines in, even though I had the same article you linked open while typing and it was on my mind when initially typing "custom" in there. Two other fast-typing errors I didn't correct I see now. They will be corrected.

OT, but I don't think Inside DSPs internal Scorpion details are all correct. Scorpion was supposed to have a lengthier pipeline for higher clocks than Cortex-A8 yet the details they gave are mostly for the Cortex-A8. See: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk/arc/seminar05/slides/RichardGrisenthwaite.pdf
[Desire General] andycted:
I was using htc_mod until I could put my hands on swype again. But I think I've found a better promising keyboard in ultrakeyboard.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. When you say "the Desire is sub 30% load to idle", you mean is in the lower 30% of devices for idle power consumption ?
[Desire General] th3:
patp: If you use this latest driver patch which lets you change voltages along with SetCPU clocks... that stands a very good chance of improving battery life: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=775997

TBVH, from all of my reading of threads and testing those same feedbacks, there seems to be large variance in certain apps/settings/features and functionality with each ROM. At least this is certainly my experience. To date, I haven't moved to one ROM except HTC 2.1->2.2 where the UI, keyboards, touchscreen, memory management, email, toggle widgets, flash, browser, stability, application/feature usability, [etc] were the same. It's for this reason that on OpenDesire, when writing at any length, I use BetterKeyboard or Swype simply because of their workings with it. On any HTC ROM though, I use my tweaked HTC_IME for the same reasons as well as it being my preferred choice. The touch responsiveness on HTC ROMs with this keyboard, along with the key size and spacing adjustements works excellent for me.

Good catch, thanks. It should've read "sub-30% CPU load" instead. Corrected.
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
Hey guys, I just sort of confirmed th3's theory for myself... the theory that SetCPU sucks down battery life - uninstalled before going to bed yesterday, and this morning I had lost only 3% of my battery life, as opposed to the usual ~10%.

I figured I wasn't affected because I only ever use SetCPU when I actually need a performance boost (hasn't really happened yet, so I just kept it installed and never actually used it). It wasn't set to run on boot, and hasn't been opened for weeks (with bunches of reboots and ROM flashes in between, etc.).

And still it apparently sucked down a bunch of power - apparently it polls in the background even if it's not set to actually run or do anything at all... :eek:
[Desire General] andycted:
Uhm I don't know, I didn't experience any change, but then again I use HTC kernel. One thing I noticed is that indeed sometimes it started by itself

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] th3:
The first time I'm able to see current discharge on the stock HTC 2.2 ROM and: http://bit.ly/afa78z

It has lower idle discharge by some margin, (-90mA min, -99mA max) with button LEDs on as usual. Same setup on a few versions of OD for instance never falls below -118mA, and -124 to 130mA with OSMonitor running as above.

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- Sent via my HTC Desire -
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
Interesting. No theories as to why? ;) :p
[Desire General] andycted:
Maybe because it's HTC hardware, maybe because HTC engineers are better than a few fellows here.

Personally I think the second one

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] th3:
Well, I don't have enough data to form any estimate as to what or why. Anyone's guess is as good as mine :)

Oddly, the app "LEDs Hack" which allows one to toggle the back button LEDs on HTC 2.2, works, but the current readings are only 2-4mA different to on (within variation). In comparison, 86 to 100mA is the range I had on OD when I disabled back button LEDs, which was a significant drop.

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- Sent via my HTC Desire -
[Desire General] andycted:
Yeah, actually it's hard to say, but would be hardly surprising if paid engineers do a better job than a handful of enthusiasts...

Strange that thing about the led. It's either the reading which is wrong or?

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] th3:
The readings look as consistent and repeatable as the rest so I have little to doubt them over the rest. To me, they mean little past a single data point as it stands.

As to my own vague inclinations: all the basics seem the same as far as I can discern (which is little) including the LED light intensity. Although I have absolutely no personal doubt that the screen lowest brightness is considerably lower on HTC 2.2. If I manually set 0% on HTC and 10% on OD with the same app (like Extended Controls), they're about the same. However, automated, the settings diverge further. At the lowest brightness, all screen brightness controlling apps are reading -7% on HTC while they read 8% on OD. Still, in complete darkness, the difference between them is very obvious to my eyes (I still have close to perfect unassisted vision, thankfully).

Guessing isn't a game I partake in (contrary to internet fashion). Except these, I'd just be stabbing in the dark :)

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- Sent via my HTC Desire -
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
Anyone here with an SLCD Desire and some decent logs of idle power usage with Current Widget? :)

I really want to know how dark my AMOLED screen needs to be to use as little power as the SLCD :(
[Desire General] andycted:
I took some measurements some posts back. If you are not on >60% brightness, you shouldn't be concerned I think, at least if you don't have an all white background
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
You have an SLCD? Wohaaa, guess I'd better go back a few pages ;)

My Desire really seems to go through battery reaaaaally quickly though, and I almost never have the brightness above 30-40%... usually 0-10%.
[Desire General] andycted:
I have an AMOLED, but my friend bought a new Desire with slcd and we took some measurements.
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
Ah, found it.

"Edit:

S-LCD on airplane mode:

max brightness = 250 mA

Medium-low brightness = 160 mA

Min brightness = 121mA"

I guess that's not too bad. I get about 90mA on a nearly black screen (black background, nothing on the screen other than current widget, black status bar) with Airplane Mode on and display set to lowest brightness... At least that means my eReader app should get better battery life than on SLCD (green text on black background)...
[Desire General] th3:
82-90 mA is also what I get with my night clock - full black screen, green text, airplane.

I've heard many say Radio/WiFi settings can make a significant difference in component performance and power, and that there's a trade-off just like with silicon performance and power. These RILs:

http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=5090459&postcount=88 - http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=6647223&postcount=32

http://androinica.com/2009/12/14/hack-for-rooted-phones-promises-faster-2g3g-speeds/ - http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=595108

http://android.git.geo.kernel.org/?...in;h=ed0f2a517a5703b151cadeac8e0087b1793c52a9

http://mystica.pastebin.com/giUbsa7p

http://pastebin.com/G8BpVNNc

Things like ro.ril.fast.dormancy.timeout=3, ro.ril.enable.sbm.feature=1, wifi.supplicant_scan_interval=60 come up very often.

The experts explain network problems and fast dormancy as: http://www.fiercewireless.com/nextgenspotlight/story/whats-really-causing-capacity-crunch

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...s-are-bogging-down-some-wireless-carriers.ars

http://farismismar.blogspot.com/2010/05/fast-dormancy-and-cellfach.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gBxO1K_NCjg/TEB67VNYnJI/AAAAAAAAAD0/nTXmm0KbKAo/s1600/signalbarmapping.jpg

There's definitely a lot to be gleaned...
[Desire General] andycted:
I'm not sure I've understood the 100% of the gist of that article, besides as usual, apPle crapping over other people work without warning (just kidding).

Anyway, is this similar to the tweak you could get on WinMo 6.5 (6.1 too ?), but not on 6.5.x, where you would say, put data connection to idle after n minutes/seconds it hasn't been used ?

I'm still a bit in the dark whether it says it's working, it's almost working, or it's bad for operators...
[Desire General] th3:
Yep. In lay words, the settings for scan/fix and the algorithms they employ can make a large difference depending on network/location/country in terms of connection consistency, throughput and power use. And the claim that close to a few single digit % of network users are killing near 40% of the total bandwidth :P

There's three reasons I'm looking into these:

1) On flashing OD 4.0.4, suddenly, my battery drain became crazy fast; 6-8 hours max. It confused the hell out out of me and bells started ringing from the many previous complainers stating these numbers and how it would be impossible to get more. I saw only 2-3 complaints of this problem with this version elsewhere with no investigations into it. Absolutely no usage difference from before in my case. Heck, I even left it idle and didn't get past 8-10 hours. No extra CPU/IO usage that I could see in the logs. Back to OD 3.x.x and all was perfect again. So in my lay understandings, it most likely had to be something with the Network/WiFi components causing it, and these settings can be very location/carrier dependent to add a little more confusion.

2) On 2.1, T-Mobile UK, I had 6.x Mbps dl for 2 or so weeks initially over WiFi at work and around home. After that period it collapsed to max 1.8-2.2Mbps without me changing a single thing. My lady's phone still gets 6.x Mbps dl over the same WiFi connection. Why?

3) My HSPDA was near 2.2 Mbps consistent at the beginning. After a few weeks it just bucketed to around 1Mbps with high latency on average. I have not managed to bump this average back up ever since. Why?
[Desire General] andycted:
Ok I see. However I would probably be one of those hugging all the bandwidth here in Italy hehe, I can reach 4-5 GB per month even without tethering.

Regarding your battery/radio/reception problems, I actually didn't do those tests while I was on DeFrost/Cyanogen, but since I've been back on HTC Sense, my battery has been consistent with every update, which I guess is a thing that could be soon over if/when HTC releases the kernel source and people start fiddling with it. I think I'm having a tad longer battery than AOSP, anyway.

My 3G data speed fluctuates greatly by the day, without changing anything, so that might be your case too ? I'm always between 1Mbit/sec and 4Mbit/sec for download, but almost consistently 1.5Mbit/sec for upload (which is almost twice my ADSL upload speed).

I've always seen Cyanogen/AOSP changelogs filled with modifications/experimetations/tweaks to the network part, and it's one of the few causes that made me go back to HTC Sense, as I think you are constantly a guinea pig... that might have come out wrong, but what I mean is that you constantly run the risk of running something that doesn't work at least in your particular configuration.
[Desire General] th3:
The WiFi problem is fixed!

See: http://bit.ly/aD5BVv

It was simply the wifi scan interval option. Set to 15 and I set it to 60 which is also better for battery life. Think broadband download test verifies the same speed :)

As to 3G; you're one of the blessed... mine is terrible bordering useless. It's not actually the speed (throughput) that's problematic, it's the latency between data bursts. I haven't looked at their modern infrastructure workings but from my side, they seem to have some sort of limiter implemented which is bursting data for a few ms then idling for an abnormally lengthy period. So my connection shoots to hit 3.2Mbps within the first 3 seconds and then rapidly falls to 100-200Kbps, stalling for 5-12 seconds, then re-bursting back up to 1.5-2.2Mbps within 2 seconds, and then a more seconds back down to 100-200Kbps again. Really bad latency and consistency wise. Downloads/connections keep stalling, 210-300ms pings to servers 50miles away, etc.

I agree with your sentiments re such builds. It is one of the bigger reasons I'm back on HTC 2.2 with root, and many more. Everything has its admirers and its place in the grand scheme overall though.

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- Sent via my HTC Desire -
[Desire General] andycted:
Your bad 3g data connection could also account for shorter battery life I guess ? Usually When spending the night in a place on the hills near here, I can find the phone losing a third % in a few hours, compared to maybe half when I'm at home...

My girlfriend uses my old blackstone tethering in place of normal adsl and even in an area with sub par reception, she can work full time with it. And we are not in a huge city. We often condemn infrastructures here in italy, as it's inside our genome to ***** against about anything from government to telecom, but few realize that given the lagging in embracing tech that the general public has, we have one among the fastest/most reliable network in europe, if you obviously don't take into account scandinavian nations.

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] th3:
Just posting on a major problem I was having with battery drain. Calibrated and all, 13% lost in standby over 6 hours with cell network disabled and WiFi enabled. It was caused by the latest Chrome2Phone. After removing it I'm back at 1% drain every 6-7 hours.

The latest GMail also gives the same issue. When I forcefully wiped it off the system, battery drain fell by 13-15% to 1% per 9 hours standby. Since this is with auto-sync disabled, it seems as if GMail doesn't let the device sleep at all.

Definitely can. Staying in one fixed place, the signal fluctuates perpetually on mine - from full to dead within a second. The worst is when it shows good reception and I start to make a call or send a text and upon the final command, it fails saying no reception. The bars instantly drop. That is so bliming frustrating and I get it at least 10-20 times per day. I really dislike changing anything on an otherwise perfectly working full setup hence why I'm still on an older Radio (32.43.00.32U_5.09.00.20). I haven't seen any useful data that a newer Radio is better for me in some departments.

I really should move to Italy then. One of the few places I haven't stayed over and learnt about yet although my nanna is from there and still resides there :)

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- Sent via my HTC Desire -
[Desire General] andycted:
I still think there is not a very big difference between radios, but trying can't hurt...

I found a similarly bad problem with weather bug, where opening the pollen map would trigger an endless data connection ! I also emailed them the problem and they suggested I disable auto-update !

Oh by the way, it would be weird to move to italy for anything else than the food hehe

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] th3:
I was told you only get decent battery with HTCs FroYo if you rarely use your phone with low display on times. I stated in another thread 6.5-9 hours display on is my norm. This is just an example from the last discharge. This was plus 9 hours display on internet/media browsing but the stats were reset at 80% when I inadvertently plugged the USB in for a second (and removed immediately upon realizing). So 80% to 10%, these were the stats:

Total: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9018/screenshot102.png

WiFi: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2882/screenshot103n.png

Cell: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4586/screenshot105.png

Display: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7673/screenshot104g.png

My woman burns with jealousy every time I mention of going there, which is good enough reason for me :P

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- HTC Desire via XDA App -
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
Your battery life with the screen on never ceases to impress me, th3. I suppose you're getting far lower runtimes with CM6-based and similar AOSP ROMs?
[Desire General] xtcislove:
Battery usage Testing? U can not do this like this! Only with airplane mode! And without WLAN etc! You need more or less Battery depending on your Signal Strength etc ;-)
[Desire General] andycted:
You could get in a row with her just to watch late afternoon tv, filled with erm, scantily clad girls (happens to me).

I would like to try and replicate your good battery life but I'm too lazy and carry an extra battery...hehe

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] th3:
It wouldn't be fair for me to say that because I haven't tried the same settings nor have I tried the T-Mobile/Orange dual network roaming switch.

The first is important because the widgets I use and sync hourly differ across both forms of ROMs (most are Sense widgets, hence). The replacements on AOSP draw power quite heavily even when idle and every few minutes peg the CPU to 100% even when not interacted with.

The latter because cell standby was a major power consumer for me since it was constantly in and out of reception even placed in a static position. With the latest Orange duality I use with the HTC ROM, it is nearly always in good reception which improves screen on and off power draw.

Another problem I had is the UI and HTC_IME mod would get stuck at 100% CPU for about a minute each time every other time I was typing or interacting with the UI on all three AOSP ROMs I've tried. Along with that, Titanium Backup and Pure widgets liked to constantly reload on their own in the background jamming the phone and rendering nearly all the widgets to reload. That caused the CPU and SD card to be loaded for 2-4 minutes each time. These problems didn't exist with the same setup (as far as possible) with the HTC ROMs. All of these factors substantially affected runtime on AOSP ROMs so I couldn't make a valid test comparison.

However, from a cursory search of older saved screenshots, I see that even with the problems I had then, and cell left on at all times, I was able to get decent runtimes with some usage. This was OpenDesire 4.0.3. No science, just my typical usage (pretty consistent except for incoming calls):

Total 1: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8738/screenshot1cc.png

WiFi 1: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1358/screenshot36w.png

Cell 1: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5304/screenshot35u.png

Display 1: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7683/screenshot37.png

Total 2: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6479/screenshot38n.png

Cell 2: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1204/screenshot39t.png

Display 2: http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1784/screenshot43.png

+1hr on those for display on with cell disabled for 4-6 hours will be quite simple. If you want anecdotes: It is true that I haven't to date seen +6.5hrs display on in my usage with AOSP ROMs, with over a month in usage.

BTW, I rarely check the stats; I just use the phone as needed. I noticed the display times a while back when having surfed the net for long on a predominately white website so expecting the battery to be long drained while it still ran for another 2 hours. The sites I surfed and read for hours in the above 8h+ display on run are:

www.Realworldtech.com (reviews/forum)

www.Lostcircuits.com (reviews)

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- HTC Desire via XDA App -
[Desire General] th3:
Quite honestly, I rarely if ever watch Tv nor her. I think it has more to do with the ladies around where I'd be visiting...

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- HTC Desire via XDA App -
[Desire General] andycted:
Hehe, yes I saw what you meant. Reassure her that italian girls are the hardest conquest in the entire world...

Sent from videotext, using the remote
[Desire General] bemymonkey:
Very, very impressive. Would you say that when you're browsing, do you spend a lot of time actually clicking links? Or is it more of a loading a page, reading it for half an hour, and then loading the next page type of thing?

Do you have any CurrentWidget logs you could share? I'd be very interested in a log of, say, half an hour of typical active use :)

When I'm surfing the web, mine looks like this:

2010/10/12 16:55:03,-295mA,60%
2010/10/12 16:56:04,-14mA,60%
2010/10/12 16:57:04,-337mA,59%
2010/10/12 16:58:04,-339mA,59%
2010/10/12 16:59:04,-300mA,59%
2010/10/12 17:00:04,-226mA,58%
2010/10/12 17:01:04,-373mA,58%
2010/10/12 17:02:04,-373mA,58%
2010/10/12 17:03:04,-5mA,57%
2010/10/12 17:04:04,-5mA,57%
2010/10/12 17:05:04,-409mA,57%
2010/10/12 17:06:04,-336mA,56%
2010/10/12 17:07:04,-325mA,56%
2010/10/12 17:08:04,-244mA,56%
2010/10/12 17:09:04,-261mA,55%
2010/10/12 17:10:04,-254mA,55%
2010/10/12 17:11:38,-12mA,55%
2010/10/12 17:12:38,-298mA,54%
2010/10/12 17:13:39,-278mA,54%
2010/10/12 17:14:39,-288mA,54%
2010/10/12 17:15:39,-272mA,54%
2010/10/12 17:16:39,-256mA,53%
2010/10/12 17:17:39,-255mA,53%
2010/10/12 17:18:39,-235mA,52%
2010/10/12 17:19:39,-275mA,52%
2010/10/12 17:20:59,-223mA,52%
2010/10/12 17:22:02,-174mA,52%
2010/10/12 17:23:36,-5mA,52%
2010/10/12 17:24:36,-265mA,51%
2010/10/12 17:25:36,-260mA,51%
2010/10/12 17:26:36,-248mA,51%
2010/10/12 17:27:36,-245mA,50%
2010/10/12 17:28:36,-250mA,50%
2010/10/12 17:29:36,-249mA,50%
2010/10/12 17:30:36,-309mA,49%
2010/10/12 17:31:36,-317mA,49%
2010/10/12 17:32:36,-295mA,49%
2010/10/12 17:33:36,-443mA,48%
2010/10/12 17:34:36,-288mA,48%
2010/10/12 17:35:36,-327mA,47%

Are your values consistently lower in active use?
[Desire General] th3:
I have review page tabs open for length before changing but I have the tab number hack so I switch between 5-12 tabs and applications all the time (and Handcent, Gallery, NewsRoom, XDA, Kreac Calc - always - I text heavy). The realworldtech forum is threaded so you reload a new page for every post. I never read the same topic/thread fully but generally read some, change tab to read another subject, then another and then switch back to the first, and so on. That's always how I read anything. I really doubt my figures will be as high as yours though. Let me get a log for ya after it runs out (at 12%)...

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- HTC Desire via XDA App -