yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
sigh...I think it's the alternate theory.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
No problem, you can think whatever, it's probably as false as your arguments here.

The problem is that you don't understand dialogs here but you're trying hard to respond.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
The only problem is you don't understand anything technical. So you'll complain about things like multitasking, because you're to dumb to understand the tombstoning model, and so on.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Pathetic and again offending approach. How do know my techncal knowledge Mr. D?

But in fact that's not a matter of understanding,

it's a matter of beeing conscious of preferences and needs. And your endless explanations will not magically change reality. Black won't be white and reverse.

The funniest thing is because I'm the user, sooner or later all those complaints will be fulfilled, with "sorry".

Because the customer is the king.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
How about you stop *****ing and spraying FUD all over the place, and start contributing to development?

I don't see YOU posting about new things, discussions, articles or anything related to development and hacking for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Bengal34:
I saw a video of reactions from people using the phone at GDGT. It seemed most were suprised by the changes and welcomed them. They thought it was real speedy and they liked what MS has done with the tiles and hubs.

The big issue is to give incentive to people to break their entrenchment to their platforms. People spend a lot of money buying apps and accessories for their phones so it's going to be an uphill battle with converts. However, being so fresh and different I think they have real possibility with new smartphone users. The OS really does a good job of standing out and being different.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I understand I should stop reacting directly to you.
[Vibrant General] iceshinobi:
Idk if its just me but every time I get a new gmail notification I click it and see my message but still have the notification until I see my whole inbox. Why? It gets annoying -_-
[Vibrant General] ram100987:
That's android not the vibrant.did the same thing with my G1. Click the notification and look at the email but the notification will still be they're, then click back to go to the inbox and it goes away... A little annoying at first but I got used to it.
[Vibrant General] SykesAT:
You can clear that gmail icon. Pull down the notification bar hit the clear button. That's all I have to do, icon and notification in drop down are gone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Just to repeat myself about "tombstoning" and how it can represent multitasking as most people think of it, this article gives you an idea:

http://www.clr-namespace.com/post/Windows-Phone-7-Multitasking.aspx
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Oh wow... so we can have (inaccurate) stopwatches "running" in the background on WP7? Great!

So, when I build a satellite navigation app, I set up a tombstone when the application is closed and when it's reactivated, I can calculate where the user is, because I knew where he was and how fast he was driving when he closed the app?

Awesome!

(oh and of course I don't take any responsibility for car accidents caused by my app - blame Microsoft or the idiots who said multitasking isn't needed when you got tombstones!)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You know, you would just use GPS for that :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Yeah because usually it takes 0.000001 seconds to get a GPS fix!

Awesome!

Wait..... but how is my app supposed to give directions when it's closed? Hm, maybe not so awesome after all...

Satellite navigation is one of the most important things a smartphone must do and it sucks with WP7.

And have you heard that most of the mobile web traffic is porn, Pandora and Youtube?

WP7 does none of those three things! No Youtube, no Pandora, no porn... (don't know why people want porn on their phones, but I understand the Youtube part).

Seriously, how many moronic defenses can you fanboys come up with? This OS will be an even bigger failure than Kin if Microsoft doesn't change directions fast!
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
How are your application supposed to give directions if you're not using it?
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I don't have a device to test with but I doubt it takes long for an app to get a fix. The OS probably keeps the GPS somewhat hot. Remember, Bing uses it when you search so they don't want it taking forever either.

And Bing has Satnav. Yea, I'm sure some will want a 3rd party solution but for most people, the FREE included nav will be just fine.
[Windows Phone 7 General] darkmurder:
Well Flash is coming to the phone just after launch so that will solve your Youtube/Porn issue.
[Windows Phone 7 General] kooled:
It allows you to continue using your turn-by-turn GPS while conducting a phone call
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
By giving voice guidance in background, for example.

When you search you don't need GPS, cell tower location is sufficient. Not so for driving. That cell tower location data helps to get the initial fix faster in modern devices, but still it's not instantaneous, which is a problem when you get an incoming phone call while using satnav in areas you don't know well. Otherwise, of course the OS doesn't (and shouldn't) keep GPS on. iOS 4 will keep it on while you're running satnav apps. WP7 won't.

Well, that will depend on where you live and where you travel. Bing Maps has horrible coverage worldwide. Apart from that, online satnav apps are an absolute taboo while roaming, you'll end up with thousands of dollars in your bill.
[Windows Phone 7 General] OndraSter:
I think that incoming call doesn't suspend your app, the app will be allowed to keep working on foreground.

Also, GPS fix (cold) takes about 20s on my TP2, warm is instant :). (Depends on if I have downloaded QuickGPS data though, but that's why I have data plan for.)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Funny how things change. When Apple did this it was the end of the world. Microsoft does it, its great, it's a new direction. Funny
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
when I had a iphone when I switched apps they didnt pause I had to start over when I returned to it, on wp7 it pauses it so in most cases its the best way to do it..it helps save battery while still being able to what you need to do. very few apps need to run in the backgroud besides GPS & streaming apps, once MS gives access to those apps that need to run in the background then yes it will be a great new direction. for now i dont mind it, i dont use Pandora & even on my tp2 when i use GPS i keep it on screen so i can do without it until they add it
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Yeah pretty much like IOS4...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
My problem with the iPhone's lack of multitasking wasn't so much with background running as with the fact that there's no easy way to switch between applications (namely, the incoming call while using satnav scenario, which is a major PITA in iPhone's case). I just need to minimize the dialer and keep using navigation. If that's handled (and it is in WP7's case) then the only issue is getting the fix again. Quite frankly, I find the recent iOS approach optimal for most cases, apart from the fact that it only has one button and an ultimately crappy task switcher. WP7 will allow me to go back to satnav with one tap of the Back button, so that'll work.

For other, more rare cases than those covered in iOS 4, I would really struggle to find real-life scenarios where a background process would really need to consume CPU cycles all the time (i.e. actually run). WM has a set of APIs called SNAPI, where background processes simply "register" for certain events and work only to process them. That can be done so that it won't really hurt either battery life or performance.

For the most rare cases where programs actually do need to run in background - well, I see lots of reasons why those can be really restricted, but, like with native APIs, MS could actually make exceptions in certain cases without allowing them by default - at least I would certainly agree with such a policy.

Maybe all this will be done with time, they never said multitasking won't be implemented, they'll just need to think about how to approach it better.

I personally think that lack of multitasking may be a problem, but it's actually the least of my worries with this OS. Much more relevant and serious issues are lack of c&p and lack of ways to register applications as system-wide filetype handlers. These are real bummers (apart from miserable language support and marketplace coverage of course).
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Except iOS didn't have a "pause" API from vanilla. They introduced something like tombstoning in iOS 4.
[Windows Phone 7 General] kooled:
They did, since the OS 2 release in 2008

In WP7 there's an Application_Deactivated event fired when the user is leaving the app, in the iPhone pre-iOS4 the event function was called applicationWillTermimate but the purpose was exactly the same : allowing the developper to save data before the app shutdown. Some apps were implementing it before iOS4.

In iOS4, the OS save the application state when you leave it (pretty much like Windows hibernation), whereas in WP7, the developper has to do some work to support tombstoning (and i'm not sure all of them developpers will)

I just hope that, when they support background running services API, the task manager won't be as lame as Apple one, showing programs that aren't even running...

My 2 cents
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
@kooled: Ah, my iPhone knowlegde is flawed then. Thanks for the clarification.

I think we can expect to see a background-service API, once they figured out how to design one that prevents from the phone lagging out entirely, like all Android phones does these days.

Android have taken over Windows role as the OS that requires constant restarts :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That is really funny - it looks like you really believe these fantazies.

It's a really stable OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] the-hq:
If you need porn on your mobile device I suggest you better get a girlfriend :D

I think it's only US people who care about Pandora since it's not offered over here in Europe. Hey and we are all still alive over here even without it :cool:

Anyways: A Pandora app IS being developed, they were called out as a partner (see http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/microsoft-announces-windows-phone-7-series-dev-partners-sling/ ).

I think they might be able to integrate into the Zune hub and use the zune player API too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
The difference between the 2007 iphone and 2010 wp7 not having c&p and multitasking, is that when asked Apple's response was that you didn't need it, and Microsoft's response is that it's done not yet.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ I mean it's 2010!

You shouldn't be comparing with a 2007 device.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Except it's "multitasking" forces you to restart once in a while, or install "Task Killer" applications. It's quite interesting how popular such task killers are.

And then you eventually shut down something you shouldn't, and have to factory reset the phone, as there's no way to start custom services you didn't know was meant to be running after all.

I own a Android phone, so it's really funny how you keep talking out of your arse.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
When it comes to software release cycles, it doesn't matter what year we're talking about.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Maybe you're just an Average Joe, who has no clue how to use the device.

BTW I never expect any OS to be 100% stable. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

I rather want all those things on my device than an OS which always knows better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
The fact the device slows itself down over time, due to how widgets on Android work in general might have something to do with it. (try read some discussions about it, instead of being a ignorant twat).

You just have a problem with your only alternative to WP7 being a iPhone. And I sense you're desperate to not buy a Android, as you know how much it stinks.

Why don't you use OpenMoko, like the other Linux hippies? Then you can code everything yourself in C, and be totally happy about it.

You seem like the hippie type, living in the 70s, or at least thinking like it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
That's sweet but completely missed.

In fact I don't like some modern wrong policies.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You're still a hippie. The type of person who would complain if Microsoft prevented you from writing spyware or viruses for Windows, saying they were taking your freedom away.

It's perfectly reasonable when something is limited to avoid badware. You should try accept having to do less work to archive the same goals some day -- you might end up liking it that way.

But what's your reason for discussing it anyway?

- You clearly love Android, think it's the perfect OS, giving you all you want.

- You hate WP7 on tons of points

- You don't seem to be a ROM modder

- And you're not a application (Silverlight) developer

So you got negative reasons to get a WP7, and tons of reasons to get a Android. So why don't you just go and get a Android then.

This applies to the other hippie (vetvito) as well.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Sure you can...if this were just a minor enhancement to wm 6.5 and they decided to drop c&p and multitasking for no reason that's unforgivable. But it's not a minor enhancement, it's a total overhaul.

In that regard I'll cut them some slack. What decides if wp7 will succeed or fail is how quickly MS can update wp7. So who knows what's going to happen.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Huh? Who ever said they hated WP7? Who said Android was perfect?

You can't stand to hear other peoples opinions about your beloved WP7. All you can do is offer lies and cheap insults.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
No you can't. You wouldn't compare OSX Leopard against Microsoft DOS, would you?

The year matters! Face it, MS took a few steps backwards(to get back on track hopefully).
[Windows Phone 7 General] kooled:
We don't have Pandora, but in in some european countries there is Spotify and it's becoming quite popular

Anyway Pandora won't be available at launch (Joe Belfiore didn't deny it in his interview with Engadget). It will probably will be there later.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Pandora didn't run in the BG on iPhones until recently. That never stopped it from being one of the most popular apps around. It's perfect for tailgating when combined with a Bose SoundDock.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tom Servo:
I think you mixed it up with Pendulum. Pendulum is perfect for tailgating... :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Maybe something is lost in translation here but what is Pendulum?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Tom Servo:
A band that makes a mix of electronic rock and drum'n'bass.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
But now the f*cking Jesus Phone has it and if you want to compete with Jesus Jobs, err - I mean Steve Jobs, you better have it as well.

You can't compare WP7 with the Jobs Phone from three years ago. Three years ago is over, Microsoft missed the oppurtunity, they f*cking f*ucked up and now it's 2010.

And in 2010, you either multitask or you better stay out of the battlefield. And before you tell me the freakin' J-Phone doesn't really multitask I say yes, you're right, but nobody cares about the freakin' J-Phone anymore, cause L. Ron Jobs and his cult, err - I mean, company, already lost the battle.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
If I was given the choice of them releasing wp7 as it is now, and them delaying for another year to get these kinds of features in, I'd vote for them to release it now.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
I've been browsing this forum quite a lot, because I'm interested in WP7. I'm currently an Android user and I think it's great and no it's not the best and I'll be giving WP7 a fair chance when it's released, I may even buy a device.

What's common on this forum is you, you shoot down anyone who has a negative point to say about WP7 in a very offensive and nasty way. It is infact you who talks out of your arse, People are always going to compare different Operating Systems and yes in some ways Android does things better than WP7. You can't seem to take this in, you're calling everyone else fanboys yet the irony is that you're the biggest WP7 user on this planet. There are also going to be things that WP7 does better than Android but it's far from perfect and so is Android.

As for your argument here:

Android doesn't need to be restarted. It doesn't slow down and MultiTasking isn't a problem. The OS cleans up apps which are open and taking up too much memory in order to make way for new ones. The idea is, the memory is always full, when you open a new app the oldest app will be erased from the memory in order to make space for the new app. This is an efficient way of doing things and it means that it works on both weak and powerful devices.

TaskManagers aren't needed, the only reason why they're around is because many people don't understand this automated process and feel they need to manually close apps. Such apps were created for people who feel they need to close apps themselves and don't want to rely on the system.

My Desire has never been off, I never turned off my G1 either. Resets aren't required unless you're stupid enough to download a task manager and stop core processes most of which can be sorted by refreshing the particular app in question or the "Android System".
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
No, I just respond in the same tone as one is being addressed in if you disagree with people's complaints. Try have ANY topics like the ones we have/had in this forum, in any of the other sections, specially Android, and watch yourself get burned down to the depths of hell.

It's so typical for Android users, just like you do yourself now, to disregard any performance concerns, memory issues, problems with widgets, or any problems whatsoever.

I refuse to discuss politely with anyone who don't see the negative side of all devices, and then is able to compare and weight features versus performance.

And clearly you just TOTALLY FORGOT the FIFTY PERCENT of all Android phones running 1.5 or 1.6 (about 25% each). And it's a god damn fact that Android < 2.0 have major memory issues and large issues with task management, and widgets slowing down the OS.

Not to mention things like WI-FI interfering with the music player, scrolling lag, notification area lag, and so on.

So once you had your precious Android device for more than a few months (I had mine for around 10 now), then you might be able to see though the shiny interface, and realize the major flaws and problems the OS have.

It's also worth mentioning that the Desire was along with the Nexus One, the first Android phone with sufficient hardware to actually run the OS smoothly. I think Microsoft have to much at stake to make the first-generation phones as ****ty as HTC made the first-generation Android phones.

And at least they put up proper requirements, something you can't say about Google. It's first now, after a year of "public beta testing" they finally add serious requirements for the OHA manufactures. (Beta is so typical Google, I should have known and bought a iPhone instead).
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You also directly denied any of my claims in regards to performance problems.

If you didn't see the issues with Android 1.5 on the G1, with it's minimal hardware, then you either didn't use the phone very actively, or isn't very demanding.

I'm not the only person on the internet that complained about the performance problems with Android 1.5

Same as Tatoo, but the lame part is Android 2.3 (Froyo) is better suited for the cheaper phones, but HTC refuses to upgrade the OS, because it's not cost efficient.

You have. But if you ran out of power every day, and then restarted your phone, then you wouldn't have noticed it much.

A 1.5 phone with active use over period of roughly 7 days, assuming wi-fi, mobile internet and GPS all active constantly, perhaps also bluetooth, and the phone will be so slow that opening the notification window will take you five minutes.

There's plenty of other reports in regards to performance problems on the internet. And applications doing "multitasking" where they should just do "state preserving" is a good bet on why some of the problems exists.
[Windows Phone 7 General] brummiesteven:
This is because in my experience there are no performance problems what do you want me to do? Lie and say "I experience performance problems all the time when using android phones"?

I never experienced any such problems. I used the phone regularly, I had wireless bluetooth headphones, around 3 hours music playback per day. GPS, Wifi All on. A bit of internet browsing and gaming per day and I used Locale.

Fair enough, I haven't experienced any such issues though.

And this is Android's fault how exactly? If HTC refuse to upgrade then maybe people should stop buying their phones. This is clearly a HTC Issue and not an Android one. Yeah it would be nice if it was like WP7 where you get updates from Microsoft as opposed to manufacturer but it's always nice to have variation in the platform which things like TouchWiz, Sense UI and TimeScape provide.

Both my Android phones have never been off. Not even because the battery died. Opening the notification window has never taken me any longer than 2 seconds, even on 1.1 on the G1.

It sounds to me that you have some sort of personal vendetta against Android. By the looks of your posts, you had a Hero running 1.5. Perhaps you had a buggy version, it was pretty buggy when it was first released. However, shooting down Android at every opportunity is pretty immature based on 1 bad experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
That it's HTCs fault just points out some problems in Android's business model.

Also the lack of concurrent updates for the platform is a large hassle for developers, and greatly limits the quality of applications, and again, the business opportunities of the platform.

It's the reason why Apple also made iOS 4 available for all iPhones. It means a lot for application developers.

No, I just don't have a problem with criticizing the platform, as opposed to the rest of the internet.

If people can blame WP7 page up and down, I sure as hell can do direct comparisons towards, what in my opinion is a much worse platform (Android). However, it seems like every Android user have a personal vendetta against Microsoft, but that's not really surprising for a Linux phone.

In regards to WP7 I also have a lot of complaints, but they all drown in endless tears and QQ about useless features minded on tech-savy users, more than the critical mass that's meant to make the product successful in the first place.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Android is getting updates really, really fast and it already has all the crucial features like multitasking, so you don't really need all the updates.

And even with all the carriers and manufacturers with their custom interfaces and stuff, Android users still get more updates than iPhone users. Again, that is despite that iPhone users NEED updates, cause their phones lack crucial features, whereas Android users don't need them.

You can say what you want, but the fact remains that Android is the fastest evolving platform and they get more updates than anyone else, DESPITE all the custom interfaces etc.

There is no problem with the business model, that's for sure. It works, perfectly.

If you think WP7 will get updates faster than Android you're delusional.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Quoting because it's 100% true.

BEST POST I READ IN A LONG TIME, THANKS BRUMMIESTEVEN