yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
IIRC (it's been a while since I bought the original iPhone), this isn't something new due to antenna gate and it's just Apple's spin machine doing what they do well. Contracts in the US telecom industry, not just on AT&T, are written in a way that this review period exists.

The only difference here is that there is a slight difference in restocking fees, where they wont be applied like they have at times in the past. This isn't really "Apple working with AT&T" as much as touting a possibility that typically exists, there are certain exceptions by carrier but one reason why AT&T isn't combating this is the same reason they were hesitant to accept Android phones, and they ultimately gimp Android phones, Apple is just $$$$ to them. Once again AT&T beat their quarterly record for profitability and they are the most profitable carrier in the US even though they are #2 in customers. Needless to say, they are at the whims of Apple, but this isn't a big compromise on either's behalf.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] sjdean:
Amazing. So far, 1/3 of people are happy to accept faulty goods.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/18/samsung-captivate-now-available-from-att/

Some people here have returned it to AT&T, while I don't know it has been penalty free, I think you need to not put the onus on Samsung and need to have a better comparison in-mind.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
I'm waiting for my replacement now. If the GPS still doesn't work, I might do that. As for JM2, I don't believe it do anything based on whatever limited reading I did on some of those threads.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
I guess there's two main to three main things that could be at play here:

1) GPS isn't important to these people, therefore they are voting on their bias rather than from an objective viewpoint

2) GPS isn't a core functionality, therefore it's hard to say it justifies a return or that it is "faulty" as you put it

3) GPS is imprecise by nature, so users who have a strong need for it should be more informed about their purchase and the onus is on them to do their hw or lay in the bed they've made.

I am abstaining because I find the premise somewhat flawed, first of all. I think retailers and/or carriers are responsible, just like in other industries/product lines. If I buy a wireless router that doesn't perform well in, let's say it's wired performance I don't go direct to the manufacturer there. If I buy a camera that advertises 12MP but seems to produce ****ty results, I again, go to my retailer. In here, I also have a slight bias, originally being in the U.S. where we typically buy are phones through a carrier who give us a bit of extra protection because of the way contracts are set up they don't want to lose a customer totally (also part of the premise of the argument is based on a carrier logic that I don't think is applicable in this thread, but that might just be my opinion and I'm alone there).

So, I think the premise is flawed, and perhaps my logic is flawed, but I don't want to just vote "no" just because if either is flawed. However, I don't disagree with the "no" camp.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Lots of good advice from many of you. I'll have to talk to them if mynnext unit does not work. I hope it will work, since half the people polled claim that theirs are perfect.

If it does not work, I'll reason with Optus to get bout of the contract. I wonder how much of the $49 is for the phone and how much is for the data and calls. Should I simply withhold my payment, return the ozone, and pay them for actual calls and data used?
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] dakine:
Yeah that's just the Samsung reps voting.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
Depends on how much you paid for the phone. 24 month contract? Tmo is selling their, slightly gimped model for $500 USD, I think that's on the high end of what they might get from international suppliers, depending on how big they are even though the international version is more costly.

So, ~500USD/24~20USD/month, maybe less, if fully subsidized. Forgive me for cutting corners and not looking into your location specifically, but I figure it's better than looking for the absolute cheapest UK/Euro/Thailand location.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
There is no upfront cost for the phone. Just 24 months x $49. I had offered to continue with the plan but with an alternative phone and topping up the difference in monthly fee) but they refused that.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
Do you use a sim card? Can you just sell the phone and keep the sim, then put that into a new device?
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Oh ya! When the replacement comes in, it would be brand new, unused phone, isn't it? The problem though is I have an extra SIM, since I will be committing to a new plan to get my next phone. Unless I buy the next phone outright.

Yap, may be that's the easiest and least stressful way to get rid of the SGS. I can always buy it again when it's fixed and when Froyo is on it, can't I ? Also by then may be there a newer and better Android phone in Australia again.

So, Samsung and Optus are both off the hook? Gee, what an easy customer I am!
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Wait a minute, if I sell a defective product to another person and he can't use it as a GPS, will he not turn around to demand a refund from ME?
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
What I am saying is, if you sell this device for say $500 dollars. You can then go and apply that $500 towards a new device, so you wouldn't be committing to a new plan and you'd be getting, depending on Supply & Demand in your local area, most of what it costs to buy a new phone outright. And, of course you can always buy it again when Froyo is on it.

Well, I don't claim to be a lawyer, and if I were one I still wouldn't know Australian law. But the crux of the argument would come down to this:

is it your phone that is defective? Or the series?

a) Your phone, yes they would come back to you looking for a refund if they find this to be a serious flaw (not all would and you could try to ask them what attracts them to the phone if you want to mitigate risk). Also, you can try to take a gander in their windshield to see if they have a GPS device. Lastly, you can hope that they will accept some amount of pain of using a GPS device.

b) it's the series. if this is the case, the phone has been in the market long enough and it seems that there may or may not be proper recourse in the general marketplace of Australia for returns. Edit: Also, since the phone has been on the market long enough and the series is defective then perhaps the buyer has some blame as this is "common and researchable knowledge", dunno, and this is probably the greyist legal area here too.

>b1) there is proper recourse, and title is transferable, then buyer can perhaps go through the hassle of getting new phone

>b2) there isn't proper recourse, then why would you as a re-seller have more liability than the original retailer (unless they have protection laws for the business and not for general person-to-person transactions)...here you also have to worry about your own personal morals/ethics

>b3) there is proper recourse, but it'd be on original buyer to get a replacement...well then you're probably going to have to give the refund.

I don't claim to know what to do in your position based on morals, ethics, applicable laws etc. I'm just here to help you think about how to get money for your phone and you deal with the rest on your own. Hope it helped.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
I'll research on JM2 first. Want to give Samsung the chance to fix problem.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cheetah2k:
This poll is BS. Apple are not returning, refunding phones because of the antennagate issue. They are providing bumpers instead as a stop gap.

Theres plenty of threads here supporting the fact that the GPS issue is a software problem..

In anycase, I dont have an issue with my Aus SGS. Works all good here, and on all firmwares I've flashed (JF3, JG5 & JM2) so maybe you guys are just holding it the wrong way :D
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Cool it mate. You're uninformed. Apple IS allowing the return as an option if you're still not happy with just a free case.

Glad your SGS is perfect and I'm going to flash JM2 too. But customers must not be expected to learn UNIX commands and tools, do their own development, and take risk flashing ROMS, in order to make it work. Samsung is completely expected to make sure that the GPS works out of the box. Customers must not be expected to use software like Kies which is so crappy, unpredictable, unreliable, that they have to struggle and struggle to do things which should be possible out of the box.

If you're 100% happy with the phone, I say congratulations, but many of us are frustrated and unhappy. Don't add oil to fire by calling this BS.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] alovell83:
He's partially right, though probably for the wrong reasons. This, again, is the way it always is, and this is a different country with different contracts than you. Samsung is taking returns in the U.S. as well. According to Apple, return rates iPhone3GS = 6.0%, return rates iPhone 4 =1.7%...I've heard of captivate (at&t galaxy s) have been returned. Your poll is flawed as I also previously stated, and it's AT&T taking returns for AT&T sales (though Apple does take returns for Apple Store sales).

As for software being expected to work out of the box, this is essentially lost on this generation of hardware. To think that software isn't beta when it's shipped is ignoring countless products that are buggy or near defective. Unfortunately, with this comes a change in the application of business logic, ethics and laws; whereby previously you wouldn't step out of line because you'd get hammered for it, these days some amount of bugs are, unfortunately, to be expected. As for using crappy software, more people complain about iTunes software than anything but perhaps flash and a very small handful of other devices, again, this is an unfortunate shift in the paradigm....just saying.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Why? iTune is fantastic. It backup and restore firmware as well as data reliably all the time, althoug it can be slow depending on how full the phone is. It syncs everything I have flawlessly and quickly. I lets me rip music from my CD. One single software on PC does it all, error free, and available on 32 bits, 64 bits, PC and Mac.

I'm open minded to any platform, as long as it works. When WP7 is available, I intend to try it out too. I don't have prejudice against anyone. The solution just have to work without forcing me to be a developer.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] AXIS of Reality:
In this case, I don't think it's Android that's at fault, but rather Samsung rushing their product to market before they'd done enough thorough firmware testing.

If you want a more polished, bug-free Android handset I'd suggest simply trading someone the new boxed Galaxy S for an unlocked HTC Desire. HTC are great at improving usability of Android with Sense, which sounds more suited to your tastes.

Plus, the Desire has been out a few months so it's pretty much bug-free now, and got a wide variety of custom roms including Froyo. You don't need to use Odin or anything with it, just start your phone in recovering and just select the firmware you want.

Good luck with Optus or whatever you decide to do. :) Luckily for me, I've never needed to use GPS or ever found any reason to on any phone I've had, so makes no difference to me.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
I think you're right on there. I personally don't think it's Android's fault too but Samsung rushing their product to the market before they'd done enough thorough firmware testing.

I would swap it for a HTC Desire if possible, but unfortunately only Telstra sells Desire. The reason I chosed SGS over Desire initially was the true multitouch and superp screen, GPU, big internal memory (didn't know it wasn't nand like in iPhone though) and the result of the benchmark reported. Didn't know that even with those benchmark, the phone can be so slow.

I'm a hugh user of GPS. On my iPhone, I have TomTom, Navigon, Sygic, iGO, Copilot, Ndrive, Papago all installed. I love comparing them in details and using only the best one after that. Yes, I paid lots of money buying them, LOL, but a few were "trial" ones.:p I use my GPS to warn me of overspeeding, look out for red/speed camera, to be reminded that I'm approaching a school zone, in addition to providing direction if I need it.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Guys, I'm not trying to be unreasonable here. If it is true that JM2 fixes the lag and GPS problem, then one would expect Samsung to immediately recall everything unsold yet, and change the firmware before putting it back to the shelf again. Similary, when I get my replacement phone, I expect to see JM2 and not JF3 there. If Samsung is really serious about competing for the mass market against iPhone, that's what it should do. Nobody should need to Odin3, ADB, Update.zip before the basic start to work. If they want to keep up with the latest after that, then its a different story. But to have GPS working, lags remove, and Kies working, it should be out of the box.

Unless Samsung's target market is only the geeks who likes changing the kernal , and people who's purpose in life is in flashing ROMs everyday.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] flamingpitofhell:
Mate you keep going on about this as if it affects every phone. It doesn't. The more you post and read on forums like this the more your senses can become skewed - more people are going to post about problems than about things functioning as they should.

There is obviously something wrong with the GPS in some phones, but the same could be said for the iPhone 4 with regards to phone reception - and Apple have not said that they will properly fix that (because they can't without a substantial redesign of the phone), much less recall all unsold phones for the fix.

Yes Samsung have been slow to acknowledge the problem and provide a fix. But be grateful that the problem appears to be a software one, and that Samsung can simply push out a new official firmware that will fix it. This won't require Odin, rooting, or ADB - it's only that way now because it's beta firmware that we are playing with.

PS I don't see why people keep going on about Kies - yes it's a crap piece of software that doesn't properly support the SGS, but there are other ways of interacting with your phone that doesn't involve Kies. What do people use Kies for that absolutely requires that program?:confused:
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
When did I say that it affects every phone? Are you saying that because it does not affect every phone, therefore Samsung and Optus should not be required to accept the return?

Sure, people are becoming beta tester and dealing with beta firmware. That's the whole problem. I don't expect every single bugs to be ironed out. We know that's not possible. But there are baseline standards in everything. A non-functioning GPS is not acceptable, even if it is just happening to a small group of people as you claim. If that small group of people do not have working GPS, they have the right to demand refund. No if and buts about it.

You don't see why people keep going about Kiew? That's because it is your senses which has become extremely skewed, may I suggest. The more you try to defend the undefensible, the more your senses become skewed.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] Sir_Pent:
Hi I'm on the optus 49 plan as well and I'm having no trouble with the gps but my wife worked with the office of consumer and business affairs for years and you ARE initialled to a working phone. Every aspect of it under australian consumer laws or they're breaking contact. Go to the retailer and tell them you'll go to O.C.B.A and I guarantee you'll have them bending over backwards. If you report them even if your in the wrong O.C.B.A will charge them 10000 bucks just for the investigation and they know this. Hope this helps.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] flamingpitofhell:
You said that they should recall all unsold phones.

Stop distorting what I said - I did not say that people who are having problems aren't entitled to a refund/replacement/fix, just that it's a bit much to demand Samsung take back all unsold phones when it's only some phones that are having problems and they could be fixed with an OTA update.

Well then what do you absolutely need Kies for? As I said it's a piece of **** (I'm not defending the quality of the software at all - you should read my post better before replying) but because it's Android you have a choice as to how you interface your phone with your computer. You might feel differently but I'm on Android because it doesn't lock you into an iTunes-like software environment, so whether Kies works doesn't really bother me. As far as I'm concerned I can get everything done without it - it's not a core (or important) part of the Android experience, so if it works it's just a bonus.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
If they can't get it fixed within reasonable time frame, ya, cos it's likely to be hardware problem.

Fair enough. If it can be as easy as OTA. Sure. However, why is Samsung not making any announcement on this, and reassuring via a press conference or whatever that 1) They are aware of these few problems 2) They are fixable via sofware update, so don't panick 3) Give a reasonable time frame for making that happen?

Is this too much to ask for?

There is not a choice if I want to sync to my outlook on my PC. It is core to some people who do not want to surrender their private data to google.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
Hi Sir_Pent,

Thanks for your info.

Of course, I'll do my utmost best to try to resolve the problem before taking that drastic step. I've just flashed to JM2, and am now starting to test it. If I can resolve the lags and GPS problem still, then I'll follow your advice. I'll also investigate using HTC Sync to do the syncing, rather than using KIES. Not happy, but I'll put up with it.

Regards.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] flamingpitofhell:
Of course. If it is a hardware problem then that's a totally different matter...

Because Samsung mobile sucks at post-sale support and their PR department isn't great either :p. But at least it looks like they are trying with this one (just very slowly ;)).

Sure I can see how that can be a problem (don't use Outlook myself) - but perhaps you are being a just bit too paranoid about Google?

It is, however, an acknowledged, inherent weakness with Android. At least with Samsung there is the possibility of syncing directly with Outlook (obviously when the software's working), whereas with e.g. Motorola you have to export contacts, import into GMail and sync from there. If you are willing to pay for the privacy there are apps like CompanionLink or Missing Sync (the name says it all :D).
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] cheetah2k:
I doubt very much that Samsung will start recalling the SGS over this GPS issue. They will brush it aside by manipulating firmware, and probably providing a GPS software package similar to Windows Mobile, that you update every 10 days to get accurate Satellite path information which speeds up the position fix.

If you guys remember, Nokia had the same issue with their N95 when it came out, and the phone, as I remember it, took over 5 minutes to get a lock until they provided a software fix. The N95 was never recalled, and also went on to be a best seller for Nokia and its partners.

I have to admit, every phone I've ever owned has been flawed, whether hardware or software and as a result, the GPS issue (thru the fact that I rarely use the GPS anyways, and if my phone was having the said issues - which it isnt) doesnt bug me at all. The lag issue does bug me, because my Nexus One (on the other hand) and with Android 2.1 never lagged like this. JM2 firmware is pretty darn good tho, to hide the lag and is a good example of optimising code to minimise the problem.

So for the time being, and looking at what Samsung have done over the last month with beta firmware, they are certainly heading in the right direction. The only problem is that Optus won't condone or support beta firmware, so for those not keen on flashing beta firmware to get away from JF3 (and to be honest those saying that this voids your warranty is a 50/50 call anyways - eg if a problem occurs with the phone that is not that you bricked it during a flash, but some sort of hardware failure, then it should still be covered under warranty as its not related to firmware at all) will be stuck with the lag and underlying bugs associated with JF3 for a long period of time (probably up until Froyo 2.2 is released)
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
No sir, I'm just awake and not sleeping. ;)
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
According to this thread, there is no over the air update available for us??? It says it will be done through KIES, the crappy and half working software?? May be they should recall after all, if true.

I really really hope Samsung does not abandon the customer like it did with the first Galaxy, which a close friend of mine has.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] flamingpitofhell:
Yeah I just read that (and after I just said that the update will be available OTA lol) - I hope that's not true mate, cos it'd be a bloody stupid move (it's 2010 FFS!). But I'll reserve judgement until someone confirms one way or another.

Whatever happens I think they really need to update Kies anyway, but especially so if there's no OTA update. Or at least make a standalone firmware update program.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
If Samsung had not configured OTA update, it might mean that they have no plan to provide future firmware upgrade to this phone. Same approach as the original Galaxy. Sell and abandon. How the hell are they going to give us Froyo? Are they going to give Froyo only to the Korean users and not international users? Why only give OTA to the Korean device?

The silence of Samsung in the face of these issues is not very reassuring to me.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] flamingpitofhell:
We should be right for official Froyo because apparently France is getting it in Sep, not sure how that will be delivered though. Hopefully they don't just update the OS but take some time to fix the bugs (e.g. GPS). And stop doing stupid useless things like putting ads for the phone into firmware releases :rolleyes:.

Yeah it's somewhat disconcerting that they haven't officially released any news for the international version - I hope that means they are just really busy testing everything ;). But they aren't the only ones not being entirely open about Android update plans...
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] lordzebdeh:
Did jm2 fix gps for anyone?

It did ish for me. Locks on perfectly to where I am, very accurate, takes about 10-20 seconds.
[Galaxy S I9000 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] eaglesteve:
My finding so far. In summary: Better than JF3, but still not good enough. This is based on only half an hour of driving around with it, too early to place reliance on it yet. With this degree of accuracy, there's bound to be lots of erroneous route recalculations on GPS software, hence making navigation impossible on urban roads closely positioned next to each other.