yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
You certainly don't need a file manager to make it work. What you need to do is register an application as a handler of certain file type (this information can be added in the app manifest, to make it automatic), and/or make a chooser (for setting it manually when the filetype is unknown, kind of like how they let you choose a contact's phone number from third party apps or select a picture for editing).

And of course there is a file system, it's TexFAT.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I personally don't mind when things "just work". I'm annoyed when they don't. Save as/file manager are mostly kludges for lack of better/automated/more intuitive and easy ways of doing things, but those things are unfortunately not there either in many cases. And getting pdfs in emails isn't an awfully geeky scenario really.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I'm not redefining a broad concept, I'm pointing out what narrow part of the concept that Microsoft is targeting (the "iPhone" part).

iPhone didn't provide new features, and yet it became a success? Why? Because things worked easily, required little configuration, everything advanced was hidden away, and funny enough, because of iTunes.

No, it's a geek problem, and it's not being rude. If you consider being called a geek for rude, then you shouldn't attempt to participate in technical discussions.

And the less control the user have, the easier it is to design easy-to-use software, the easier it is to bring in new concepts, and the more streamlined it is. Mac OSX is popular precisely because of that. Users don't want to spend time fiddling with technical things.

Only technical interested people (in short: "geeks") want to do that. And they're hardly the target audience for a product you want to sell millions of.

I'm just telling you that it makes perfectly sense to base million dollar business decisions on how "average Joe" want his device, rather than the small minority of technical interested people.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
So you redefine, saying that since today smartphones don't do what they did for the last 10 years.

Without a real reason for that

iPhone bring success with "Average Joe" in mind and target yet they worked hard

to actually to bring those "geek" small audience features?

Where is the sense?

And "hidden away" is a different thing than "not available"

This is where the problem lies.

It's not a geek problem. It's just a view you try to push here.

And this is extremely rude, because instead of admitting that those features are just needed by users - more than you think actually - you just say "oh please, it's just geek....."

Bull**** as hell. That's why Android is rapidly growing platform. That's why Symbian is popular.

This is extremely rude.

In terms of millions yes, in terms of the opinion on the market and the actual influence on people, you're utterly wrong.

That's absolutely fine. I agree on that.

But:

1. Average Joe likes what he knows. One day I showed to a girl who had WM device for over a year that she has inbuilt Notes app where she can draw. She was extremely surprised and happy she can use it. Why didn't before? Lack of information, knowledge.

2. Joe's habits change quickly. Very quickly.

3. Following your statements why the hell one would like to have on the device such complicated stuff like 8mpx camera, HD video recording, software for picture and video edit? My God, get a camcoder and a PC! Stupid.

The hope is they'll realize it and add all those things to WP7.

It will be the king than....
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You would notice it took Apple around five years to introduce the "geek features".

In software development, you're never done. You have to stop at some point, and ship something. Preferable something that feels complete, and don't have "advanced mode not done yet" switches all over the place.

The fact you won't admit that technical orientated people aren't average joes, will be your own problem. And if you internet jargon for technical orientated people is rude in Poland, then it's not my problem.

Symbian aren't "populare" as a brand. It's just used by the biggest mobile phone producers (Nokia, Samsung, etc.). Android is popular because it costs 50% of what a iPhone costs. The people who actually push the large numbers of Android device buys, aren't technical orientated people.

No, I'm not. People care more about the phone can use Twitter,Facebook (specially upload pictures to Facebook), than if it can actually do a bloody phone call.

You need to get your distorted view out of your local area. Try ask some girls what their reasons to pick a phone is.

So since average Joe don't explore the functionality of the phone, you need to limit the amount of functionality, to present it to the user. If they want additional abilities later (read: applications), they'll install them and know they are there.

Yes, and iPhone are the market leader on "hip" smartphones. Nobody want something Ancient like Windows Mobile. Sense UI is the only reason people still buy them.

You would find, if you bothered to investigate, that people don't care with the technical specification. But large numbers seems reassuring, so they think "8 mega pixel, wauv, that sounds better than my 2 mega pixel camera I have now". Even if the picture quality is ****tier, as the new phone don't have Flash (Hai first-generation Android Phones!)

It's not like products don't change over time, but you need to understand why the platform is designed as it is today.

A large target audience, and a community that builds application for the phone, is much more important than making it awesome for tech-savy people. That's why nobody cares for Windows Mobile, and it don't have a active application development community as iPhone have.

You simply don't get street cred for making mobile phone software, for a mobile nobody ever heard about (Symbian, Windows Mobile, RIM). The iPhone is a brand people can understand. Android is partially, but not as well. WP7 intends to be a brand like the iPhone.

If Windows Phone 7 don't become "hip", then it won't ever succeed. And then making tech features is a wasted investment for Microsoft.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
@Windcape.

You still don't get my point, I think it's too hard.

We will see what WP7 will be like anyway,

The market will actually judge it, so before that - we just fantasize.

But again the important thing in what I was writing about is here:

If the thing or the feature is not present "on the first page" that is not a problem

if I can personally add functionality.

But if the features are simply not available, that's wrong.

Especially when they were available before or simply technically possible.

I would also warn you before using those magical "Average Joe" words,

because you can't really define it. Believe me or not, but 50% of people don't use cameras on their phones, so what?! Are they average or already not?

The word geek is not offending me. What annoys me is the philosophy you present,

pushing all the productive and effective aspects to "geek area", where I'm sure this is

completely wrong thinking.

And again I say **** you to all those who tell me - less control I have over my personal device - mine! - the better.

If average person cannot handle this, make it simple. But leave space for advanced.

Finally, stop using this "nobody cares" etc. You are not everybody.

You know, you would be a perfect Steve Jobs woker.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You mean 50% of everybody with a regular phone don't use the camera. That's not the same as saying 50% of everybody who have a iPhone don't use the camera.

You need to narrow the view.

And no, personal control over a device is something you get if you build the device. If you buy a package solution (such as a phone, or a laptop), then you get a package solution.

The world have changed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Hahaha! I have perfect control over my laptop.

And phone too.

Going further on that topic is sensless.

You're the real digital-world "troll".

Harmful person.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Actually you don't. You lose your support contract if you change the OS, and you lose the warranty if you do any significant hardware change.

Is that what you consider control? Because you got that control of your mobile phone as well. Just don't expect the makers to help you break things.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
:confused:

I mean really? What year did the iphone come out?

Do you even know about other mobile OSs?
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yeah I was also surprised. Of course it was about 2 years.

But this mate is just improvising. Half blinded person.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You think iOS was made on 24 hours?

It's a pretty good estimate that iOS 4 was ready after around 5 years of development.
[Windows Phone 7 General] TheATHEiST:
lmao, are you insane?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
iOS was released first time 3½ years ago. Assuming 1½ year of development time prior to the release, it makes perfect sense.

Is nobody here sane enough to realize that iOS 4 isn't a "rewritten from scratch" OS, but just a upgrade to the same Darwin core, mostly extended with more public APIs for the developers, and some new Cocoa API features (The UI package).
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
So it took them 2 years to introduce some of them, like c & p.

I don't count the development time. This is a false argument here.

In this context Microsoft is really a looser, it took them 10 years to release something completely new, and few years of development for releasing still unfinished product. How bad is that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] OndraSter:
WP7 as we know it started about 1.75 years ago from scratch IIRC. :P

Why would they relesae something completely new each year? Till iPhone came, nobody thought that WinMo is bad. Why? Because it was used for business where it is still best platform IMHO. But when iPhone came with games and unified APIs for GSensor etc, people started wanting stuff on WinMo too. But WinMo was never conciped for this task. Mostly because it was that old. And for backward compatibility, you can't simply change few parts and have it still working. If you change something small, you break compatibility on many devices. That's what was never WinMo's issue - you can still run latest winmo builds on quite old devices without problems.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
^ So you see, regarding WindCape arguments Microsoft is really bad in thinking

because after 10 years of having practically all means to bring the best OS to the market

they are massively late.

And if you say it's 1,75 years from scratch it means 1,75 years wasted of iPhone presence on the market.

These things are not what I really think but they proove the WindCape arguments against bringing features on WP7 are just wrong IMHO.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Really good article for you guys.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/...-microsofts-third-failed-attempt-to-be-apple/

Damn good article.

"Who exactly will be buying new WP7 phones? Will it be the old WiMo customers Microsoft kicked to the curb? Will it be the weak minority of Zune fans who weren’t able to rescue Microsoft from embarrassment over the past three years of its trying to sell that? Will it be iPhone users who want to revert back two or three years into the past technologically?'
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
@vetvito: Reality check, all the arguments apply to Android as well.

Doubt it'll be significant hard for Microsoft to convert the current 7% Windows Mobile users of the smartphone market, to WP7, and gain additional 4% users. Then they'll have beaten Android already.

Android is still a vast minority. It just got a lot of loud yelling fanbois, almost more than Apple have these days.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ I knew I would get you to say something.

You do know MS is dwindling don't you?

“In the last ten years, Microsoft’s market capitalization has collapsed from a whopping $590 billion in 2000, down to one of just $261 billion.”

If WP7 sales are anything like Zune, game for MS and their piece of the mobile market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Meh.

The guy has no clue, it's just a bunch of tired cliches. Vista debacle my ass.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
In terms of market cap, sure, because since then they lost the premium associated with high-growth stuff, as did the whole sector. Ever heard of dotcom bubble? Go to Google Finance and compare MSFT with NASDAQ.

Microsoft isn't dwindling in terms of sales and profits though.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
We'll see.

Remember that currently smartphone market is still a little part of the whole mobile device market, so things will change anyway, and one doesn't have to think about current iPhone or Android users.

But I think that this article, although beeing very good and having valuable arguments,

is very negative but slightly forgetting Microsoft is still a successful company.

The writer just forgets the good things, apparently liking Apple more.
[Windows Phone 7 General] gom99:
Microsoft is dwindling? Seems like a stretch...MS has several multi-billion dollar businesses, and also have a bigger revenue than Google and Apple.

As opposed to Apple and Google...

If something can start cutting into google.com's one cash cow then things will go down hill fast.

If something can topple the iphone's mindshare then things will go downhill just as fast.

This whole marketshare nonsense is just hype...Apple is over-valued in the stock market. Android is already cutting into the iphone mindshare. Just like everyone knows the iphone, many more people are starting to see those Droid commercials. I've actually heard "bubblegum" chicks say things like the Droid is better than the iphone, because "there's no limit to what droid does". I know that's anecdotal, but this verizon + motorola marketing campaign is doing a goodjob of building a brand to compete with the apple brand.

MS just has to carpet bomb people with ads when wp7 goes live...I do think the general consumer will like it from everything I've seen with it. I think they will like:

-Zune Pass

-Zune software compared to itunes

-xbox live integration and bring alot of gamers to the smartphone market

-The style and the originality

Will everyone? surely not, but I think it'll be a contender.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Good point, Android gains a lot of it's success from Apple limiting themselves to AT&T.

But a lot of Android phones are cheap, so they don't fit into the high quality segment, along with the iPhone. There's 2, many 3, Android devices fitting in that quality range.

WP7 looks like it'll be launching around five devices in that quality range in October, with different hardware peaks. I'm also certain Microsoft is more focused on beating Apple, than Android.
[Windows Phone 7 General] blaiz123:
disappointed...

Just reading through this garbage that Microsoft has left us with, I can honestly say that I'm disappointed................ What the HELL has Microsoft been doing this whole entire time. I understand that they went back to the drawing board, but they've have had a huge chunk of time to develop and perfect their software. This is BS man
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
I will be getting one I didnt read the article, but by the way they ended it i think they arent factoring xbox live in the equation. I dont think anybody who thinks wp7 wont sell is either & dont realize how big being able to get achievements on the go will be to some people
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-talks-windows-phone-7-and-photos/

Pretty nice talk about good WP7 photo abilities.

Some things are impressive.

But pity again the main talk is about intergrating photos with all those community sites but not much about actual photo shooting.

Seems like touch zoom won't be supported, a big pity, it's a great thing.

(But maybe it will be, I'm not sure).

I want to vomit from all those intergration talks, like all the world and whatever we do with the device

is Facebook.

The guy asked about the favourite camera features, besides speed of it which is nice - 1 second from button press,

named intergration. Nothing about the camera itself.

I'm wondering if the camera itself will be actually just mediocre.
[Windows Phone 7 General] havox22:
out of all the backstage events, this guy was the worst...he didnt really answer questions. A lot of the time just repeating the same things, im not sure if maybe he didnt understand some of the things or what.

Good news tho OEMs will be able to add things to the camera just not change/take away some of the thing...for me tho im just glad that pictures will be quick i never used the camera on my touch pro 1 or 2 because of how long it took to take pictures so even tho it mite be lacking features its still a plus in my book
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes this guy repeats the same thing through over 1h....

Should be beaten :p

I care about camera very very much. I took thousands of photos through last 2 years.

And on SonyEricsson camera was always great thing, full of features and good quality.

That's why I hope they'll still be able to put it on WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Didn't watch the 60 minute video.

In the notes it says aimed at grandmothers. Huh?

They keep mentioning the speed of the OS, but they never mention the fact that its just words and boxes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Heh true, not much to process than :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
What are other OSes? Words, more boxes (aka 'chrome') and gradients?
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Icons, 3D graphics, more colours, gradients and shapes.

Variety of graphic elements. Customizable elements.

But I don't care so much about it - if WP7 will be really smooth

and simple to operate + highly functional, that's great.
[Nexus One Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting] black jack:
I have a nexus one which is not rooted or unlocked. It had vodas EPF30 on it and in my haste to get out of their grip i flashed the korean froyo and i see im not the only one.

Now i wanted to flash the US version of froyo so i can get the relevant updates first when they come out. I realise the issue with the newer H boot etc but figured if anyone can figure out how to do it, it's going to be someone from here so if someone can please look into it it would be very appreciated.

Thanks for reading
[Captivate General] jhego:
When i had my blackberry, i had full bars at my place, with this phone, i only get 2-3 bars. I also managed to reproduce signal strength issue while holding the bottom back of the phone with the CASE ON. The bar goes down 2-3 bars. Although calls didn't drop, data slowed down. I hope it's just poor calculation on the signal and a fix is on the way. Were you guys able to reproduce this issue or at least have less bars than your previous phone?
[Captivate General] cellgeek:
My Captivate holds calls through areas that my BB Bold 9700 always dropped. Bars are not relevant, it's holding up the call that counts.
[Captivate General] derek4484:
I did notice that I get fewer bars shown on this phone than my old iphone. My old iphone would show 1-2 bars in my living room. This phone shows no bars and if I leave the living room it goes to no signal icon. But I did a speedtest with no bars being shown and I got 1.2Mbps down speed and 148kbps up speed, so thats pretty decent. But you're right, I dont think the antenna in this phone is as good as in some other phones. Even sitting at my desk at work I barely get a signal, showing only one bar, where my old phone got 5.
[Captivate General] aikeru:
Just wandering around XDA today -- thought I'd offer my 0.02c.

Remember if you compare against an iPhone that the recent adjustment to the display of the signal bars will show less bars than before. Also, AFAIK every mfr displays them differently anyway... :)
[Captivate General] fade2black:
Yes, especially since Apple said they "were completely wrong in calculating signal strength and the number bars to display". Seems they can make the bars whatever they feel like. I would go by the dBm before any bars.
[Captivate General] ghostedge:
This^ Unless you're dropping calls, I wouldn't worry about it.
[Captivate General] k2snowboards88:
The iphone had vastly inflated bars to hide its poor reception. Thats what made the iphones antenna problems appear to be even worse.
[Captivate General] TexUs:
QFT. Apple faked bars... Enough so to where it showed as many as 2 bars more than what it should have.

Everyone does this to some extent, and being the open platform that Android is, I'd suspect they're probably going to be the most accurate as far as bar representation.

I wish carriers would just start putting the signal level there instead.
[Captivate General] Drachen:
The signal strength reporting on this phone isn't very granular. It's basically the same as the bar indicator. 5 bars is -51 dBm, 4 is -81 dBm and 3 is -97 dBm. My tests with all signal strengths so far in terms of download speeds in 3 locations in Manhattan are identical. I'm getting ~3mps down and ~300 kbps up (AT&T please fix this!).

Is anyone reporting dropped calls or data slowdowns due to signal loss?
[Captivate General] YellowGTO:
This phone updates the single faster then anyphone I have ever owned. I *think* most phones a buffered a little but this phone, My girlfriend was driving the other day and I was watching the bars change constantly.
[Captivate General] adamandro12:
Since I got this phone on Saturday, I have rarely had full bars even when driving through town. But I haven't had any problems with performance so far. Still, it bothers me because I want to be sure that I don't have a lemon as other people I know have been getting full bars.
[Captivate General] pongothemagnificent:
I can hold my samsung captivate between my butt cheeks and i get full bars, i just had to say it, cause now that the icrap4 has the anntennaassgape, everyone thinks there device will have it to, its not the smartphone scene's fault that apple doesn't know how to design high end smartphones...
[Captivate General] TexUs:
That just means this is the only phone you've owned that displays bars correctly...

I went from 5 bars (3GS) down to 2 bars (on the Android).

Simple fact is that Android's representation of bars is closer to what it should be.
[Captivate General] MendedEagle:
Hahahaha. I couldn't agree with you more.
[Captivate General] adamandro12:
I'm referring to other captivate owners who have told me they get full bars.
[Captivate General] TexUs:
Only way I'd trust something like that, testing if you've got reception issues, is having them side by side.
[Captivate General] nkstar26:
Oh good, I thought I was the only one with this problem just got the mine and I notice the signal would change constantly thinking of returning it .
[Windows Phone 7 General] yosi199:
I've just saw a video in this article:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/windows-phone-7-in-depth-preview/

The UI is amazingly fast! I thought it would be slow as hell but it seems one of the fastest OS around now. What are the chances will get to see it on an HD2?
[Windows Phone 7 General] whitekidney:
No you will not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] drownage:
Officially, no...

But unofficially, there's a chance...

WP7 developer devices are out in the market now, anyone able to get ROMs from those?
[Windows Phone 7 General] ThaDeanesta:
HTC Mondrain rom, my friend :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] ~~Tito~~:
Please keep speculation threads, and threads that don't contribute to the development of WP7 out of the Development and Hacking threads.

~~Tito~~
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
Seriously, the next person that asks whether or not the HD2 is getting WP7 needs to be banned
[Windows Phone 7 General] Da_G:
Hey, when do we get WP7s on HD2?!?!

Oh,shi-

:)
[Windows Phone 7 General] mmelo76:
Now that is here in general ...

And we have many topics on this subject ... locked! :)