yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] itsall_cooool:
I've had 3 WinMo devices up through TouchPro2, and I am currently using an EVO4 running Froyo. The reason that people (including myself) have switched is because, I believe... Android WORKS. It does everything we WinMo users used to want our WinMo devices to do, without a stylus, without a Keyboard, and without dozens if not hundreds of rom updates etc.

I'm sure for those willing to wait for a general public release of WP7, (perhaps Mar 2011?) the wait will be worthwhile, although I fail to see the attraction, since most upper-end android devices are more than adequate for some time to come.

Where MS used to be the "business power users choice", and the proposed 'zune/xbox' integration of WP7, I cant say I really see where MS is heading... seems more like a mish-mash of ideas with strict hardware design specs to run a clunky-looking interface and proprietary software.

This is what has driven me away from MS OS, the seemingly odd mix of getting away from power users and attempting to integrate all their devices (none of which are very impressive), and all this 2 years too late. In today's rapidly evolving personal electronics world, this is in my opinion, of far too little too late, and possibily the demise of MS in the PPC world.

So forget porting the the clunky. proprietary WP7 OS to older devices; HTC, Samsung and others will NEVER release the drivers for WP7 that might make it even close to feasible to use non-specific hardware. Their business is in selling hardware, and biting the hands that feed them (OS and service suppliers/providers) is not in their best interests. And don't forget, not all users are 'tech savvy' as those on xda are, and such backward porting by manufacturers/service providers would be a HUGE, expensive support propositin.

When WP7 arrives, go plunk down the 300 bucks and stare at a hi-rez screen with ugly, cartoonish tiles on it, and kick yourselves for hanging on to the dinosaurs tail!
[Windows Phone 7 General] richteralan:
I used to disagree with people saying that MS fanboys are as bad as Apple fanboys. Now I tend to agree with them.

This is one thing I've mentioned: Brand image.

If you refuse to read and believe fanatically that A does certain something and becomes successful, maybe B can too if B does the same certain something,

my friend, you are mistaken, BIG TIME.

And that summerize MS's tactic in gaming console, mp3 players and smartphone market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Yea, just look at how Microsoft has failed in the game console market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] richteralan:
All that because MS tries to copy Apple. iPhone and iOS is locked down with its strict policy for Apple App Store.

The reason I switched to WM6.x from Symbian is the customization possibilities of WM6 platform. Symbian "just works" albeit most of its app resource is outdated, and S^3/4/5 is still WIP in terms of app resource.

Most software company failed to realize that the community cooking scene actually HELPS the device/OS sales rather than hurt it. Same goes for computer game modding scene.

Apple can do this because of the accumulated user base from the original ipod years. Not to mention those viral marketing ads running on TV all the time.

MS is trying to milk the number "7" since they had a huge successful Windows 7 launch.

We will see if this magic number still works in smartphone market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] richteralan:
Yes and I'm sure they are very successful in mp3 players and smartphone market, too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
They used to be successful in the smartphone market and will be again very soon.

Zune is interesting. Apple has had the MP3 player market on lockdown for quite some time. Even Apple isn't seeing growing sales there anymore. Microsoft never made the marketplace and devices available abroad; a curious decision. The Zune HD is an awesome device and has received rave reviews. However, Microsoft has always said that the Zune devices really isn't their end goal -- the marketplace and service is. In hindsight, I almost think the Zune HD was a design study and market research for WP7. It enabled them to see if this whole Metro thing would work. It proved that it definitely will.

Nobody thought MS would succeed in the console market. They've done that and then some, even with some serious QC issues. There's plenty of room in the smartphone segment. The refresh cycle (2yrs or so) is even more often on phones than consoles.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Think this thread needs to be closed waaayyy off topic now.

Sony was dominating the console market, a competitor was needed. Microsoft stepped up with the Graphics and Games. The games are pretty much the reason why Microsoft has been able to hold its ground, thats it. Feature wise it sucks, no internet browser, no bluray, you had to buy all these extra accessories for wifi etc. But gaming wise, the 360 is a pure winner.

Now another competitor is not as needed in the mobile industry as it was in the gaming industry. Microsoft is years late.

If this was 2006-7 and Microsoft announced WP7 at the same time as Apple announced the iPhone, then this would be a different story. The playing field would be equal, but its 2010 and its not.

You now have a competitor such as Android, that is free. You can't beat free. Microsoft is charging $15 per phone loaded with WP7. If you were an OEM, which would you choose?
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I HIGHLY doubt many people care about the browser on the PS3. It's barely even advertised. Microsoft was behind HD-DVD. So it's no surprise that they don't include Blu-Ray. Remember when PS3 launched how expensive it was? Recall that it was a year delayed primarily because of Blu-Ray? Blu-Ray is a Sony creation and owned. And it's a game console, everything else is gravy.

"Now another competitor is not as needed in the mobile industry as it was in the gaming industry". Disagreed. There's always room for more competition.

I'd choose the one that's not going to get me sued and that's going to sell the most phones with the least amount of R&D. OEM support doesn't really seem to be much of a problem right now. Doesn't mean they're ditching Android. It's not one or the other.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Talk about propaganda. Note how Google's execs never mention any numbers but instead talk vaguely about "material", "immaterial", "imagine there are 1 billion Android phones out there" etc. That's cause investors want to see where the money is going to come from. I frankly don't know what material means for them. As for Droid marketing, I've seen more than one source claiming Google pays VZW. I'm sure they do, one way or another.

You sure can beat free. If I were an OEM, I would look at total costs for sure. Microsoft is beating free in desktop quite easily. Not to say it's the same market, but your argument by itself doesn't hold water.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Please do share these sources. The guy himself stated that Motorola and Verizon took on the expenses.

Lets look at total cost:

Android

Development team(Drivers, OEM designs, etc): $

OS: Free

------------------------------

WP7

Development Team (Drivers, OEM designs): $

OS: $

The WP7 OS is a variable cost, its $15 per device, so if I make 100k devices too many, then I would have wasted a ton of money.

Total cost Android is a clear winner. It just makes more sense. No matter how many devices an OEM makes, the OS cost is still $0.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Not true, because you have to spend much more on development and keep more people. Also, you have to pay things like licensing to Microsoft for patent stuff or Exchange or what not. Also, you constantly have to spend resources on updating your software when Google updates the OS, for old devices. And so on. Windows 7 on netbooks costs much more than 15 bucks a piece and it's still a better deal than free Linux.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
How do you have to spend more on development when the OS is open source?

Has anyone paid for any licensing for these non native phones running Android? Highly doubt it. Android is free for anyone.

You don't have to spend money on updating your software, it's a choice. If you haven't noticed OEM's prefer this choice.

You are only stating your opinion about the better deal of Windows 7 and free Linux.
[Windows Phone 7 General] richteralan:
I failed to see the logic here.

Both WP7 and Linux platforms need developement costs. You said Windows 7 costs much more but still a better deal than free Linux?

this is the core of the problem:

WHY you think a non-free OS is a better deal than a free OS for netbooks?

Because there's no competition. Linux sucks in terms of daily average joe6packs computing. Either Windows or Apple. This is why Windows is a better deal because of brand recognition and lack of competition.

If you apply this to smartphone market...

dude....:D:rolleyes:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I didn't say anything about open source. You have to spend more on Android because you need to offer a decent music player, Exchange functionality and other missing stuff. Also you have to license things like Exchange yourself. You also need to spend money in order for the OS to look decent if you want to sell your devices. Also you have to pay for patent infringements and whatever any patent owner wishes to charge you even if it's not your own code, like HTC is paying MS now. Android, just like WM, is a DIY kit. It has advantages and disadvantages.

The OS itself is free, but HTC and others do pay licensing fees when they make devices with it.

They try not to, but you are expected to support your device at least for some time (in HTC's case it's traditionally been about a year). So they have to update the whole suite of their software when a new version of Android comes out. Development and testing certainly isn't free for them. Regarding their choice, they don't really have much of it now. There's Android, WM and Symbian. The choice between the three is pretty clear, and Symbian isn't the top one despite also being free.

Yes because information about these issues is very scarce.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
So it turns out. Linux-powered netbooks caused abnormal returns and support costs, so it was pretty much dumped by OEMs, despite being free.

If you apply this to smartphone market you see there's not much competition either for and OEM like HTC.
[Windows Phone 7 General] richteralan:
The abnormal return rate is because average joe6packs can't figure out how to use it, and why it looks different from their friends like joe7packs.

I was talking from a consumers perspective. And you are talking from a pseudo-dev perspective and pseudo-MS speechperson perspective.

If you say there's not much competition for OEMs, then you are treating smartphones like a computer, palm-sized computer. You are separating handset from OS which is EXACTLY OPPOSITE what MS is trying to do with WP7.

But if you enjoy that, that's your choice!;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] RealPsygnosis:
so on my gf's acer neotouch there is a chance to see WP7??

It's great!
[Windows Phone 7 General] ricky886:
If android can run exe that is really good:):)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Viper92Z:
Well

Nice news, I hope it will support HD2 since I own it as RustyGrom mentioned, it will be better than any other Windows Mobile for sure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Viper92Z:
Unfortunately, I think you will not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] josidhe:
Yup, no matter how open Android may be, it doesn't change the fact that many, many Android devices are already dying, and the vast majority of users will upgrade to new hardware.

The G1, though it gets a lot of love, is not the sort of handset you want to use today's Android with. It's sluggish and relies too heavily on tweaks and shortcuts, and if Android ever establishes itself as a platform for gaming, the G1 is right out.

The Hero and Moment? Laughable. The Hero struggles with new releases, and the Moment is dead in the water as it is (the entirety of the hacking effort there is with converting the system to ext2 and poking around with multitouch).

There's no great appeal to Android as a platform for keeping a phone relevant. They die just as quickly as any other platform. If anything, the hyperclosed iPhone family stays relevant longer than Android devices do, which is frustrating and sad. WP7 phones will at least be able to handle upgrades directly from Microsoft, and will be supported much longer as a result (I'm sure as hardware requirements progress a generation or two, old configurations will be phased out).

Android is a platform for people who want to be at the mercy of their carrier and OEM. Loving Google won't get anybody anywhere, because it isn't up to Google whether or not your phone gets dropped from support seven months after release (hate you Samsung ^_^). Believe it or not, if you want a platform you can depend on to be somewhat future-proof, leaving Sprint/Verizon/at&t/T-mobile drama out of the picture, WP7 is the platform for you.

It's just the way it is.
[Windows Phone 7 General] mlococo:
Windows Phone 7 and the HTC HD2

I bought 2 HD2's with full knowledge that there was a very good chance that I would never be able to port WP7... Anyone who was not aware just was not listening. Yes, there is a chance that some of our talented COOKS will whip us up a batch of some WP7 goodness, but I always knew I would be buying new phones. Not only that but you need the new phone to take full advantage of T-Mobile's highest speed network.

Still love my HD2 planning on loving my HD7 as well!

:-)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
You can! Who said it would be bug free? That is up to OEM to do that, or user, or anyone who wants Android. Hell I run Android on a notebook of mine from time to time with no problems.

Are you telling me that if I make a device with nothing on it, no SPL, no Bootloader or anything, and no OS, that Microsoft will take care of all that for me for $15usd? Not to mention keyboard configurations, g-sensors and camera types.

Are you telling me that Microsoft will take care of staff for my device? :confused:

keep on dreaming.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Actually that's the case if you use certain types of cameras and sensors, you don't need to develop your drivers.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ Oh really, well why are the ROMs made like this "SYS, OEM, XIP"?

What a joke.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Microsoft has a "Silicon Catalog" for WP7 that they're doing all the driver development for. If the OEM picks parts out of that catalog, there's very little that the OEM needs to do. Of course those things still exist because that's the architecture of CE/WP7. The OEMs and silicon vendors (more likely) CAN write their own drivers if they choose to. For some things like the main SoC/GPU, I'm pretty sure Microsoft isn't even allowing any choice at they're making everyone use Snapdragon. Unless maybe Samsung is using Hummingbird? I wouldn't be surprised if they convinced MS to let them do that as it would be quite a slap in the face to use a competitors SoC.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
As far as I remember reading the documentation, it includes Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, camera, accelerometer and something else I don't recall.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Yea, I know they called out some specific things in the docs but it's my understanding that it's pretty much enough to build a device using only MS drivers. I know they did for the base platform (cell, GPU, etc) in addition to the aforementioned parts.
[Windows Phone 7 General] OndraSter:
Because there is nothing like that in original CE builder. OEM gets some AKU and now with WP7, they get drivers MS has already made for specific chips (like GSensor, touchscreen, ...). They just add their part, like stock apps and (or) missing drivers. I don't know all details about PB, I have just some parts of CE6 platformbuilder (the ones publicly available). But the parts for OEM/SYS is just us, and how do we get it? By simply checking the package for cert, if it is signed by HTC or MS.

In different look, somebody might say that OEM part = the one that isn't usable between different devices/hardware and SYS is the one that can be used on all devices without any changes.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
So after all that, I still need staff.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Viper92Z:
Bad

That's too bad actually.
[Windows Phone 7 General] pack21:
yeap.....bad to MS, because i will stay in Android....if i dont have a WP7s port, so soon MS dont see my money.

I bought a HD2 to have a WM update....not to buy another device.:mad:
[Windows Phone 7 General] federaly:
I can completely understand frustration but it is not MSFTs or HTCs faults that you made a assumption about about Windows Phone 7 considering it was unannounced when the HD2 came out.

Quite irresponsible really to blame them for your poor judgement. Seriously like any company they DO want to make money. Look at any new products coming out they always look to break some comparabilities. Xbox to 360, PS2 to PS3, iPhone3G to iPhone4, When Mac switched to intel & so many more.

Hopefully with the strong support and ingenuity of XDA we can all enjoy WP7 on our existing device though I have no qualms about upgrading to a new handset :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] pirate1640:
I am not a specialist in software but i am a consumer, and after reading all 13 pages + every article for WM7 i have to say this. every time that microsoft did BIG announcements i had to format my pc twice. i am old enough to remember windows 95 and the transition to windows ME... the ones that was announced from the tv and had a kernel crash, and everybody remember the vista announcements... so i learned by experience to trust windows only at the second semester from the release date. i want to believe that the pattern will break and WM7 will be fantastic but i doubt that. so at the moment even if i had the option for WM7 i would say no.

lets see how it will go with the new devices.
[Windows Phone 7 General] SiL3nTKiLL:
and this is why im glad i switched to android...
[Windows Phone 7 General] federaly:
As my tag says I have the Desire and have rooted it. But I don't find stock Android better than Sense. Nearly if not everything I have seen on WP7 I like and I will assuming hardware is good be buying first day!

I have watched so many WP7 dev videos and one thing I have noticed is that the apps are much more cleaner and less pixalated and I love how there is a consistent UI!
[Windows Phone 7 General] trangoul:
I respect and agree with Da_G
[Windows Phone 7 General] suicidal.banana:
Watching the live event now (here) and i gotta say, apart from them trying to sell the 'amazingly smart super effective' ui, theres nothing worth noting...

Sporting a HD2, i guess ill hope for a port to the HD2 so i can test it before having to buy a new phone, by the looks of it now ill definably move over to android

Edit; just some of the things that go trough my mind while watching;

- Cool, they explain the user interface, guess its not so natural then?

- Sliding between pages on 'home' is new?

- Camera and album connected to eachother is new?

- Supersmart of them to put the calendar on the lockscreen (uuuh?)

- Cloud servers for voice recognition, dont all other mobiles do that offline?

- They implemented some kind of swipe-t9, shoop da whoop

Edit 2; Wasnt even watching anymore but heard this from a colleague;

- Clipboard will be a update pushed to the devices in 2011....

Long story short, ive watched maybe 20 minutes now, and all were about random crap UI features
[Windows Phone 7 General] rr5678:
Windows Phone 7 wasn't that great, just as I expected. WP7=Zune with phone.

- Sliding between pages on 'home' is new?

iPhone, Android, Sense UI

- Camera and album connected to eachother is new?

Android, iPhone, HTC Camera App.

- Supersmart of them to put the calendar on the lockscreen (uuuh?)

WM6.5

- Cloud servers for voice recognition, dont all other mobiles do that offline?

Bad implementation of Voice Search.

- They implemented some kind of swipe-t9, shoop da whoop

:p
[Windows Phone 7 General] turborider:
very very dissapointed with HTC HD7,it doesent support Divx files at all including Adobe Flash Player 10.1 wich Htc Desire Hdb support them all,the hell with windows 7 mobile looks crap anyway and not so organise as win6.5 is
[Windows Phone 7 General] AfzalivE:
Yeah and those AOSP builds coming out every now and then are actually just for show? Nope, Android is FULLY open source. iOS is proprietary otherwise we'd be having iOS ROM ports on our Android phones.

MS is being a control freak, they still haven't realized that the more "open" you are, the more people accept you

I have yet to see how multitasking will work on WP7.

Secondly, who in hell will buy an expensive WP7 phone if there's a cheaper WP7 phone from another brand?

Point being, they're alllllllll the same lol. With Android at least you have a bajillion customization options, different ROMS, different launchers, different apps for everything.

Plus, everything syncs with Gmail/Google Calendar/Google Tasks/Picasa etc. Good luck finding that kinda compatibility with WP7
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
It does. (except tasks as there's no tasks metaphor in WP7)
[Windows Phone 7 General] AfzalivE:
That's sad :D

Also explain to me how to multitask on the emulator. oh wait, that's right...they're calling "Music Player playing in the background" Multitasking.

Laughable MS is laughable.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
No they're not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] AfzalivE:
"The core operating system is a modern multitasking operating system. If you play music for example, the music will play back as you navigate around the experience...if you're using email, we have great support for push email and that happens in the background."

http://gizmodo.com/5472240/is-there...indows-phone-7-hint-its-a-lot-like-the-iphone

lol
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
What's incorrect about that? Nowhere does it say that it allows for third party apps to multitask.
[Windows Phone 7 General] AfzalivE:
"they're calling "Music Player playing in the background" Multitasking"

This statement is correct.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Right but you're implying that Microsoft has said that it is 3rd party multitasking which they have not. Having the audio player running in the background IS multitasking. But it's not 3rd party multitasking (although it can be since apps can hook into this). These are not mutually exclusive. They will certainly add more multitasking support in a future release.
[Windows Phone 7 General] aberean:
Not impressed at all!

I just watched the video from the link in prev post, long and boring. I did not see anything that really stepped out and made me say WOW. most of what it does is already out there in say android and iphone, but they have a smoother flow and usability it seems to me. the only thing that really holds me back from the others is a good office setup ie, word, outlook

thats my 2cents.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Mr.zeus:
so only HD2 can soppurt 7? dats right?

some phones like HD, Topaz, Opal?
[Windows Phone 7 General] juggs:
Go back to the first post and read it again.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
no the HD2 isnt the only one capable of running WP7

http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/toshiba-tg01-spotted-running-windows-phone-7
[Windows Phone 7 General] Phone Titan:
The operating system looks quite good so far even though its lacking a few key features at the moment. The hardware however isn't that much better than the current Android devices and in some respect there is already some better Android phones out there that were released a few months ago.