yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Bull****, idiotic bull****.

They don't know because instead of learning

they're raised to be idiots, who are "users don't even know what it means".

But that didn't prevent people from using USB FlashDrives which require simple folder knowledge, did it??!! Somehow users are able to do THAT!

That's the philosophy, support stupidity.

-------------------

The thing is, I love cloud IF IT'S A CHOICE.

I use it for PIM. But why? Because I have no other choice if I want to transfer it to other device.

In the past I could do it BETTER just transfering PIM to other device's memory (Symbian UIQ).

I fight the concept of not beeing able to choose.

And especially to complicate my life without asking me.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
You're asking to complicate your life, not the phone. It's YOU who want to do the double work yourself, instead of letting the phone do it automatically.

Get over it already, the phones today are designed for that kind of users, who want to buy'n'use -- reading a manual is for boring people.

It's directly stupid to argue and QQ about phones not being designed for über geeks who want to tweak and configure every little detail. It's getting directly ridiculous that all debate atm. is about directly idiotic subjects, instead of doing actual development discussions about either hardware tweaks (not so relevant yet), or software issues (very relevant).
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I get what you're feeling. You want that control. You want to decide the layout of files on your phone. You want to decide when they get on your phone. I get it. I really do. I used to be that way. But once you learn how to just let go and let the phone, cloud, and zune desktop do it for you, life will be much easier. There's a semi-famous infomercial guy here in the states whose motto is "Set it and forget it!". That's what this is.

I get home, I walk in my house, I plug in my WP7 phone into the wall charger next to my bed and it automatically connects over WiFi to my computer and syncs my media. I take a picture with the camera, it's automatically uploaded to Windows Live within minutes. You don't have to use these but I know I sure as hell can't wait for it. I'm tired of constantly having to do things on my phone. I want the thing to handle all these menial tasks for me. I'm sick of sense crashing. Or my text messages not showing up correctly. Or my phone just entirely freezing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Who's fighting against the cloud? The cloud is a great thing. It's just not a binary either-or situation. Doing interprocess communications via the cloud is not an optimal solution. Transferring a file from my PC to my phone via Skydrive isn't either. Definitely not with current speeds, latencies and roaming charges.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I'm all for it. Just tell me how I'm supposed to set it and forget it in WP7 when somebody sends me a freaking pdf via email.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
Like I said before, the people who don't have "Unlimited" Plans will probably feel a small burn from this depending on how much data is moved. I agree I like to have all my crap with me and the freedom of being able to use the phone as as USB Drive on a whim is always handy (and I still believe XDA will make a hack no doubt) but again it isn't a deal breaker. Being able to back up my pics and sync the few real files that may matter is really a neat feature. Similar to Steam. (Who thinks Steam may make a mobile platform for WP7? That would be neato)

The one thing I hope gets hacked within days would be Internet Connection Sharing. Either USB tethering or Wifi Tethering like the current WinMo.. That’s something I just about gota have.

One thing that is odd is how the current WP7 Betas on all the Dev Phones is running an older version of Bing. You know it will get turn by turn nav built in but its odd how its not already implemented. It looks like they are running the old bing we got on WM before the VG was added. Strange.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
You really think there won't be a PDF reader out by Adobe on release day? It's not like Microsoft can include everything, from other companies, in their OS.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
There will be a PDF reader for sure. You just won't be able to open an email attachment in this reader. Nor will you be able to save it for opening in that reader. Third party programs won't have access to email attachments or register as handlers of certain file types. That's a fact. I asked Brandon Watson about it, he confirmed.

I certainly don't expect Microsoft to do everything. The problem is, they chose an approach that basically leaves them as the only possible providers of solutions for some scenarios.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Some people, even with unlimited plans, travel a lot. The do-everything-via-the cloud will easily cost me a thousand Euros a day when I go abroad.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Only the media Microsoft lets you sync. You wont be able to sync any files for third party apps, like ebooks. That's why the file system access and USB storage mode are necessary.

What you don't seem to understand is that people don't want file system access in order to mess around with the files on their phones. Only geeks do that.

No, file system access is a requirement, in order to make moving content onto the device easier. There's nothing easier than a simple drag&drop. Or at least let the users WiFi-sync entire folders, not only the few filetypes that are supported by Zune. And of course everyone wants to download something from the web sometimes.

Nobody wants to email himself because the stupid phone doesn't work as an USB drive. That's silly.

And in WP7, not even that is possible. So how do you get the media onto the phone that can't be synced via Zune/WiFi?

That makes WP7 pretty much useless.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
If you've ever used the iPhone, you know there are workarounds for this. Beside jailbreaking, applications simply include a WebBrowser control that lets you download anything to the isolated storage as soon as there's a webserver on the other end (and no, you don't need to install something like Apache on your PC to transfer files, there are much simpler solutions).

So not useless but definitely awkward and too complicated.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I know it's not there now and it hasn't been mentioned but I think they could, and probably will, easily make a "shared" folder that would allow syncing of files that are accessible from apps. So instead of calling IsolatedFileStore, the dev would just call SharedFileStore.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
I know, I've owned several iPhones. That's also why I know how much the "no file system access" restriction sucks (and the "no copy&paste" and the "no multitasking", but that's another story).

That's exactly what I'm complaining about. That method sucks. Every app has to bring its own method of getting files onto the phone and files that have been downloaded by one app cannot be viewed by another.

That's extremely un-user-friendly (and one of the biggest reasons why Android is by far the most user-friendly OS, besides the awesome notification and information handling, lack of censorship and so on).

Yes. So awkward and complicated that it's effectively useless.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Exactly.

I want a fckng choice.

For instance, I couldn't care less for any bloody Windows Live upload of my pics!

I want to choose what and where I want to do anything with them.

Instead, I would like those developers to actually OPEN possibilities the way any individual customer wants!

Like beeing able to work on MySpace, or upload txt and photo on Blogger,

or support more complex websites, or support advanced functions on Office....

Or easily upload SOME pictures on any blog I want.

Instead, they just add another "Lifestyle" **** on it. Limited.

That's what I say. Because if ever want to do anything DIFFERENT from Microsoft planned for me,

it will require the same or even bigger amount of complicated tasks.

Like how could I sent 7 DIFFERENT files to somebody's device by Bluetooth?

(Like photo, music, document?)

How can I ZIP 10 different files on my device?

Aha, no way, since it has no file system....

So, they add and at the same time take away.

Making a profi feature phone instead of a real smartphone.

How funny, decade of working on making phone a pocket PC,

just to **** on this later on......
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottyNuttz:
One thing a lot of the reviewers ignore is that unlike current WinMo or Android devices, WP7 phones will not depend on the carrier or manufacturer for software updates. Minor bug fixes will be pushed out OTA and major retooling can be done via the Zune software. This means that once they figure out any of these shortcomings, there won't be any of this business where only certain devices ever get the update.

Anyone who had an original Zune at launch can attest to the benefit of this. Those of us who were patient were rewarded with dozens of new features. We even have a clock now! A CLOCK!
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
That's nonsense. The iPhone doesn't rely on carriers for updates either, yet it took them years to figure out features like multitasking and many many features are still not there.

And by the way, Android phones never need to connect to any desktop software in order to get updates. It's all OTA.

And most importantly, other phones simplay don't need that many updates, because their OS doesn't lack crucial features. Froyo is nice, but there's nothing in there that's absolutely needed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottyNuttz:
Well, it's certainly a giant leap for Microsoft, but and yes, Apple is different because there's only one propietary device. Android does OTA updates, which is great, but not every phone gets them at the same time. And early adopters are thanked for their support by being left out in the cold.
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
If WP7 isn't for you why agonise about it? Sounds like android is a better fit for a lot of Xda members who want the familiar WM features and power, while WP7 better fits those who want to have a streamlined, consumer focused experience with an MS slant. It's not perfect but as this is not expected to be the last revision to the OS we can expect that improvements in a lot of areas will come. Enjoy it for what it does or go with a platform better suited to your needs.
[Windows Phone 7 General] IM0001:
Your missing the point iPhone is a standardized phone (but only 1 maker even though their are 2g, 3g, 3gs, and 4 now its still the same platform) and they all get updates from 1 source, not AT&T.

Android has OTA but its carrier and phone manufacture specific to each device which makes it a waiting game.

With Windows Phone 7, (as long as its not a hacked phone methinks), we will be able to get updates OTA from Microsoft directly no matter what phone we have. They may have checks since hardware will definitly change over time, but each phone from each carrier should all get updates at the same time. No more waiting for the next version from X company when Y company already has it released and Z may never get it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Why wait for improvements when you can have a better OS now?

That's silly.

Some years ago, those faults were forgiveable. The iPhone didn't need multitasking, copy&paste and so on.

But today, there's no excuse, you either have them or you're not competitive. And no they're not 'just features'. They're crucial to the user experience.

Users don't want to mess with strange sync methods, cause there's no easy way of getting files onto the device.

They don't want to type text several times, because there's not even something as basic as copy&paste.

They don't think about multitasking, they complain because they can't have Pandora running and do something else.

...

Nobody's going to wait for Microsoft, when everyone can just buy an Android and be happy.

Errrrr.... what? Did you read&think before you wrote this?

Android users don't need updates that fast, because they already have an OS that doesn't lack basic functionality. Android is already complete. Froyo is nice to have, but it doesn't bring crucial features like multitasking, those are already there.

So what? Again, you wouldn't need those updates if the OS didn't lack basic functionality. Android users don't need them, they already have an OS with multitasking, copy&paste, file system access and so on.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottyNuttz:
That strange sync method is plugging your phone into it's wall charger when you go to sleep at night, and having all your files synced wirelessly with the your computer.

It's actually one of the things I am most excited about for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
No it's not. That works for music and some other stuff, but how will you get books onto the phone for example?

Right, you won't. There's no way of getting anything onto the device that is not supported by the Zune software.

WiFi sync is nice, but only AFTER the basic, crucial functionality has been implemented. Who cares about the fancy looks and MS integration when the OS is basically useless?

Well, I do like the look and the integration, but I'm not going to buy an OS that's useless because it lacks basic functionality like a way to get content onto the phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] ScottyNuttz:
Well, then I guess you're done here. See you in the android forums.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
It's also very interesting:

1. What countries will be supported at launch, and how fast the rest will be supported

2. How many and what applications will be available.

3. How fast WP7 will come to WM6.5 number and variety of apps.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Five languages, 17 markets, neither Poland nor Russia are on the list. There are 30 markets from which you can submit applications, but in 13 of those you can't buy applications.

Nobody knows how fast it will change - i.e. there are rumors that the Netherlands will be added before the end of the year and in April.

Nobody knows that (even Microsoft), as not every developer who's working on it is announcing his plans. Microsoft themselves are working hard, offering revenue guarantees, developer devices, support and stuff. They say they are working on variety. There will be quite a few games they say. Some things we won't see due to limited APIs - browsers (except Opera Mini-like frontends for web services), augmented reality, VPN/Remote desktop, file browsers, video players supporting additional codecs, applications like Pocket Informant, some other stuff. There are some big names who have already signed up - Electronic Arts, Microsoft Studios (obviously), SPB, Citrix, to name a few from different areas.

Unless it fails like KIN, I'd expect that to happen in a year or two (API limitations are an important caveat though).
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
Why on earth do these people still visit the Windows Phone part of the forum? It's been pretty clear where Microsoft's focus is for almost 6 months now. It hasn't changed, it isn't changing and if Android does what you want it to do then where's the problem? Just buy an Evo/Desire/Droid X and be gone.

There's a huge difference between flaws, priorities and design decisions. The 'People' hub's handling of Facebook is a flaw, a bad decision or maybe something that Microsoft have overlooked. Lack of multitasking/cut & paste is down to other priorities, they're coming but Microsoft didn't see them as important enough to the experience to implement from launch (due to some of the functionality being provided in other features of the OS. Personally I'm disappointed but I can see the point, they've provided the functionality that I will use 95% of the time). Using Zune and cloud sync instead of Explorer was a design decision, one that caters for a larger part of the market than it upsets. It's designed to be simple with a low maintenance requirement and as little work on the user's part as is possible.

Probably via the same means that iPhone users used before iBooks was launched - via 3rd party apps. There's plenty in the App Store that can sync with Calibre (an eBook library management program) over WiFi and I expect a good few will move to Windows Phone now that Apple have killed the market. It's quite a good bit of kit. Running it on my server with it set up so I can grab books from it while I'm out of the house. Great for the times I forget to add a book/finish one ahead of time.

I'd prefer a native solution, but that one will do.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Yeah and if you've ever used an iPhone, you know that SUCKS. It's a nightmare.

It's not only about books, obviously. Any content that doesn't go to Zune. And if you download a file with one app, you can't open it with another. Have two book readers? Download the file twice. And of course, no normal user has a server at home and programs his own apps that can sync with that server.

Users won't be happy that they have to learn how to get content onto the device for every single app - since every app will do it differently, some will need a desktop client, some will need an accout to download from the web and so on.

Oh, and what if you just want to download a file from the web and view it on the phone? Well, bad luck. iPhone users would download it on the PC and email it to themselves - how stupid is that? But not even this works with WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yeah, 3rd party app for every different file download.

Very convinient.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
To stir some emotions and have their own kind of fun I guess.

Normal users seem to have far fewer problems with the iPhone than I would expect them to, and are mostly happy with it. So it's far from a nightmare. I would call this part of their experience subpar, but there are always tradeoffs, and many prefer this way of having things work for them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
That's what it's like to have an iPhone. People here have been mocking the iPhone for years and now suddenly it's OK not to allow file system acces, multitasking, sideloading or any form of customization.

Stupid.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
That's bs, obviously.

Nobody prefers not to be able to put files onto the phone or not to be able to multitask, or not to be able to copy&paste. Nobody.

They just don't know the alternatives. A subpar experience, yes, that's what the iPhone is. They just don't know that there's an alternative that provides an almost perfect experience and doesn't make you email files to yourself all the time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
That's of course bull**** as well. It protects their copyrighted content, that's what it does. And it makes the user experience a nightmare. But they seem to think their copyright is more important than the user experience.

You're stupid if you think the restrictions are for anything else. And the last thing they do is help the user experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
This is actually not as bad in reality as it sounds. Don't get me wrong, I find it stupid and clumsy, but for most use cases it works, although your mileage may vary.

I personally download mostly cabs and books on my phone. The former are irrelevant pretty much on a non-jailbroken device (and jailbreaking gives you file system access); the latter is okay. On WM I download books from websites, save them, and then open in my bookreader. On the iPhone I open the bookreader and download them in the embedded browser. It has its own bookmarks, scripts that highlight book links and some other things that make it quite smooth. So all in all it's more than tolerable (although the principle is rather irritating).
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Have you ever owned an iPhone? I guess not. Because it IS as bad as it sounds. A lot worse, actually.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Oh of course they do. I know many people (my wife is one of them) who moved from WM to iPhone (and some did it via a quick stop at Android), and they realize the limitations very well. Yet they are happy because they got something they value more than losing some conveniences.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Yes, exactly....
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Well if you want to talk about bull****, that's exactly it. It doesn't protect any content whatsoever.

My wife owns an iPhone, why would I? I don't like it, and don't have a habit of buying things I don't like. I'm her tech support though so I know it pretty well.
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
True. But most 'normal' people use Kindle and don't have to worry about such things :p

How? You can import any audio file you like in to Zune/iTunes et all, there's not a single measure there that protects copyright. Zune can't tell the difference between a track gained over Limewire, a track gained over Bit Torrent, a track bought from iTunes, another bought from Amazon and a final one that was recorded using Sound Recorder. All they've done is offer people a way to buy music that is more convenient that stealing it.

I used to mock it, but then I tried it and while it's not perfect I now spend more time using the device and less time maintaining/tweaking it than I ever did with Windows Mobile. I miss some of the freedom, but I wouldn't go back.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
So if I want any .wav file as music on my phone,

first I have to import it to Zune...?

Very simple :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
You don't have to "import" it. As long as it's in a folder that's setup to be part of your library, the zune software will pick it up automatically.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Or you drag and drop it manually.
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
No need to find the file, it should already be in the library. Heck, it could be on the phone before you remember where you left it (or where you left the USB cable/card reader needed to drag and drop).
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Don't get it.

I want any mp3 or .wav file from my computer

to transfer to my WP7 device.

Let's say - by USB.

So you mean Zune will automatically detect all those files from my computer?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
If you need it, yes. I'll need a 64GB phone first to keep everything there.

It can do that if you want, yes. Or you can add files manually. Or both - import files automatically from some folders and add manually from others.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
That's EXACTLY how Android works. For EVERY filetype. A simple drag&drop anywhere and the OS does all the rest. No need to worry about ANYTHING.

There's no easier way of doing this than the Android way.

The WP7 way? Sucks, cause there is none. Every app will need its own method and every time you install a new app that wants content, you have to learn how to get that content onto your device. You'll end up with several different desktop clients and lots and lots of web accounts. It's a nightmare.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
OMG you guys are even more clueless than I thought... of course the file system access restriction has only one use - protect their content. It keeps you from sharing the media you buy from the Zune marketplace with anyone else. That's exactly why the iPhone still can't do Bluetooth file transfers and of course also allows no access to the file system. That's the only reason their is and it's got higher priority for them than creating a good user experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
No, with Android you'd need to find the file on the PC, plug in your phone/memory card, open it in explorer and then drag/drop the file on to the phone/memory card.

With Zune/Windows Media Player that MP3 that you just downloaded is already in the library on the PC (assuming you added your download location as a media source, which is generally sensible). One click and it's on your phone.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Unfortunately it is true.....

**** you Apple.