yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
What nonsense! They don't use WM because it sucks, that's why. There are geeks that need every single feature of WM and accept the tradeoffs. But for everyone else, WM sucks.

I was talking about an OS that offers a better experience than the iPhone in every aspect. Not one that offers more features but sucks otherwise.

An OS that's just as easy to use, yet doesn't require you to search for strange workarounds like emailing files to yourself. And OS that's just as easy to use, but without the annoying restrictions - thus offering a user experience that's superior in every possible way.

I wasn't talking about WM when I said there are alternatives that offer a much better user experience.

There's an alternative without any tradeoffs. That's what I was talking about.
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
LOL. media that you buy from Zune is unencrypted MP3s that you can save easily to your computer and do as you wish with. If you use the Zune pass, those tracks are encrypted with DRM both on the phone and computer. Nice conspiracy theory though!

There is?
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
Sod it. Joke account, it must be. Nobody is this stupid.
[Windows Phone 7 General] efjay:
Anything wrong with protecting copyrighted content? If you buy DRM'ed content by definition its locked to certain playback devices and this is what allows a company like MS to offer a music/video service in the first place. If they had no protections in place how many media companies would supply content to Zune? Then we would all complain that itunes has all the content...

DRM content wont play anywhere else apart from authorised devices anyway so even if you sent it from your PC to someone else they wouldnt be able to play it so why is it so crucial to be able to send it from the phone? Your non-DRM content is yours to do with as you please and while you wont be able to share that from your WP7 phone you can share that via other means. Nothing forces you to buy all your content from Zune either, Amazon music files are DRM free so you can share them as you like from your pc. The phone by design is not meant to be used to share media directly, nothing wrong with that as people normally dont share their media that way.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Are you stupid? What are you using, Windows 3.1?!

I go to my music/documents/videos/whatever library, take the file and drop it onto the phone.

With WP7, I open the Zune library, take the file and drop it onto the phone.

That's exactly the same!

Except that with WP7, it ONLY works with a few filetypes.

And it needs the Zune software to be installed.

And Zune is much slower than Explorer.

And you probably can only connect it with ONE Zune library, whereas Android can share files with as many PCs as you like.

No, I'm just saying it hurts the user experience. It definitely does, no matter how much those stupid fanboys scream, without the file system acces, the user experience is a lot worse.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Since you always talk about one thing, I know by now what it is. But I also said that some people moved to the iPhone via Android. You seem to have built yourself a reality distortion field of your own.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Not only are you now pulling things out of your ass, but also don't read what others who have actually used the software are saying.
[Windows Phone 7 General] shaundalglish:
Well, it works that way with the iPhone. You can only connect it with one iTunes library.

Since the WP7 restrictions are a 1:1 copy...
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
Thanks for the lesson in how a piece of software that I use umpteen times a week doesn't work. Useful information. I prefer the way that it actually works though to your made-up fantasy version.

Also, you don't agree with breaking copyright, but not being able to break copyright by sharing stuff from the Marketplace is a bad thing?

Please start thinking about what you've written before hitting submit, you're not even being coherent with your own posts, never mind everyone else's.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Sharing music and videos via bluetooth. Right. It's not file sharing sites, bittorrent e.a. that RIAA & Co. together with the media industry are going after, it's folks with bluetooth phones. And Apple so ingeniously plugged this gaping hole for them. Who cares they have these files on their always-connected PCs. Go after bluetooth, and you'll kill piracy.

Different planets indeed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] lordcanti86:
Wasn't this topic once about the various reviews of WP7 on the internet? At least I thought it was.
[Windows Phone 7 General] egzthunder1:
Thread cleaned up a bit. Stay on topic.

@shaundalglish

Please cut it out with the foul language and if you must argue, do it in a less offensive way. Discussions are ok, as long as they don't turn into flaming, which seems to be the case here.

Play nice.
[Windows Phone 7 General] the-hq:
That's probably the most unfunded comment I have ever read.
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoojay:
Am I picking this up correctly

First of all, I really like the look of WF7. It's a fantastic new interface to the mobile market, fresh and clean. It's the way it seems to work I am not getting. Will I not be able to drag and drop media from my desktop onto it? Will it have to go through Zune? I am not knocking Zune as I have never used it, but I have used itunes and it's a pile of **** just to put a song on a media player. I don't want to sync all the time. Will I have to use bing as my search engine? Will I have to use bing maps and not google? If someone sends me a link to a youtube video in a text message, will I be able to open it? And vice versa, will I not be able to send a link via text to someone else, say of a webpage I am browsing, and more importantly, will it have opera support? No Sideloading of apps, does that mean apps can only be put on the phone if they come from the marketplace?

All of these things I can do with my Touch Diamond 2, my first winmo phone, previously having Symbian phones for years, which incidently have been doing these thins since I first got one. If these things are correct, then it has gone backwords.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Yes, you'll have to use Zune, as the phone doesn't have a filesystem as you think of it per-say. But worry not, Zune is actually awesome. I'm in love with the Smart DJ ability it have, and wishes I could get a Zune Pass like, right! now!

- You'll have to use Bing as search engine (Bing works very well towards typical mobile searches), and Bing Maps (again, don't worry, they're actually better).

- Youtube availability is hard to answer, as it's Google's responsibility. But changes are yes, you will.

- And yes, you can only install phones though the marketplace without a developer license ($99 per year), or a Dreamspark (student developer) account.

Lets take it the other way around:

Can I use Zune to put media on your Touch Diamond 2? Can I use Bing and Bing Maps instead of Google on your Touch Diamond 2? And will I be able to get all my applications from one place, and install them directly on the phone with one-click, including paid apps, on your Touch Diamond 2?

If I can't, things haven't gone forward!
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Keep this in mind as we go through the rest.

Yes, you have to use Zune. Zune is light years ahead of iTunes. You can "drag and drop" media, you just have to do it through the Zune client.

Bing is integrated into the OS. When you click the search button, it will open Bing (if you're at the home screen or other location that doesn't have it's own search functionality). You can use whatever you want in the browser. Google very well may make a Google maps app. There's nothing stopping them from doing that. All of the functionality they need is present. But it won't be integrated into the OS like Bing is. Check out some videos of Bing in action, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Well at this point, there's really no way to play YouTube videos. I am certain that MSFT will resolve this before launch. It's probably just one of those things they aren't showing off yet. But yes, if someone sends you a link in a text or email, you can click it and IE will open. You can also send links from IE.

Not likely. As with any other software, it would be up to opera to make it but it would be next to impossible for them to develop a successful rendering engine for WP7 due to the development environment. But the question is, why do you want Opera? It's not like Opera is that great of a browser. It's much better than IE on Windows Mobile 6.5 but I'd say IE on WP7 is better than Opera. The pre/reviews all say that IE is decent compared to the browsers on iPhone and Android.

That's correct, unless you're a developer ($99/year or free for students).

Yes, the features list is a bit smaller on WP7 than WinMo. However, the interface and platform as a whole is infinitely better.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
@RustyGrom: Different, the feature list is different. Not smaller :p

Zune is quite pro with Windows 7 btw. The Zune Toolbar is nifty for docking in the taskbar. See a screenshot of my desktop , Zune is in the bottom-right corner, next to the System Tray.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Errm, to have a choice?!

Like WM, like desktop, like every other mobile OS on this planet!

Also, Opera Mini (or this type of browser) is MUST HAVE where you don't want huge data transfer

OR you're in a bad coverage! In this case normal browsers are disaster, extremely slow.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Opera exists for Android as well, but the Android version don't support multitouch, and it's zooming is ridiculous bad, making it completely useless. And Android don't allow you set set a default browser either.

If choice means the defaults is terrible, then choice is horrible. If no choice means the defaults are awesome, then no choice is awesome. Funny as things always turn out like that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Blah blah blah. What a garbage talk.

In reality Opera browsers are great, and the most used browsers on any platform.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Except iOS, Android, Windows, and Linux. What were you saying again?

Also I'm amazed you don't consider multi-touch support for a mobile browser important... You of all people!
[Windows Phone 7 General] scoojay:
Hmm, my upgrade is due in October, and I was really wanting to go with WP7, but I think I am now leaning towards android for the ease of use. For all WP7 looks fantastic, and it really does look amazing, it's just to lacking in the features I use most. If these get addressed in a service pack then a move in the future would be a definate.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Throwing some data into the fray:

http://www.istrategy2010.com/blog/mobile-internet-statistics-search-usage-browsers/

Also worth a read:

http://www.thechromesource.com/most-popular-app-on-android-the-browser/

http://www.navdeep-manaktala.com/2010/07/google-browser-is-most-popular-android.html

Do yourself a favor, and check out all the problems Android have before buying one. You'll find that it's as lacking as WP7 (more lacking if you ask me)
[Windows Phone 7 General] littleasian:
i love the way wp7 is shaping up, with a few more updates (like HTML5 support, multitasking, start screen wallpapers) it would be a fantastic advantage.

but the one thing that saddens me (and im sure im not the only one) is the lack of mac support. yea, i know MS is all for PC's but just cuz we own macs doesn't mean we hate MS. i would love for a native zune client for osx. thats what was holding me back from zune hd purchase too.

and i know you can bootcamp/virtualize but its such a hassle.

that being said, go ms i hope you have a great launch.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I would be extremely surprised if Microsoft don't make it possible to add music to the WP7 though Mac.

Microsoft have a good relation with Apple when it comes to products like this. iTunes also exists for Windows!
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
MS contracted with The Missing Sync to develop a sync client for Kin. Maybe they'll update that for WP7 (assuming it even needs an update)?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I remember reading somewhere about a Zune client for Mac (not from Microsoft, so you'd still need to launch Zune via VM to update firmware and such).

In a strange paradoxical way, iTunes for Windows ends up promoting Mac (i.e. you start using iPhone/iPod, get interested in Mac OS, get a Mac). Zune on Mac would... just promote Mac.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
No Mr, only iOS. On any other OS Opera works better than a native browser.

You start to be hilarious with the amount of work

you do to prove here that every OS on the planet is full of ****, just WP7 is brilliant.

Sweet :-)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
No, Opera is definitive not better than the native browser on Android. The lack of multitouch makes it a ****ing pain to use, and it don't support the scroll-wheel on the HTC phones, making it super annoying to click links.

And I see you decided not to respond to the fact you ignored a feature right there (multitouch). Nice trolling attempt, but you failed.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
No, I just don't care about multitouch!

It's the last thing I'm interested in any browser.

Here you talk only about comfort.

I talk about a quality of the browser.

The rendering, supported formats etc.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Opera Mini (or this type of pseudo-browser, which is just a client for a web service) can be easily done for WP7, absolutely no problem with that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
I believe so too.

Will be great to have this kind of alternative.

I think Opera already fights with the topic
[Windows Phone 7 General] the-hq:
I think iTunes for Windows was just developed so they could get Windows users to use the iPod and iPhone too.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
Certainly. They just had to do it because Windows is so much more widespread. Porting Zune to Mac wouldn't add much to Microsoft.
[Windows Phone 7 General] daniel-t:
Apple didn't completely write a version of iTunes for Windows. They ported the mac version, as there are still references to Interface Builder files and resources inside it :P
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
I think they will one day. It's just not a top priority.

Oh and an interesting tweet... "@simchabe: Woot. Every single microsoft employee will get a windows phone 7 #mgx" Microsoft execs are sick of seeing iPhones in the hands of all their employees.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I feel for them. I don't work for Microsoft and generally don't care, but I'm sick of seeing iPhones in the hands of damned everybody around me at business meetings, in the office, at restaurants, starbucks, on planes, airports, everywhere. This is becoming a zombieland. Not that I have anything against Apple but somebody has to freaking stop them.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
^ Sorry, but it won't be WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
And you know that because?

Anyway, I don't mind if WP7 is one of the things that stops them. Heck, I'd be happy if people carried three or five phones made by Apple. It just can't be one phone for everybody, it's surreal.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Blame Google for failing so epicly with Android, and Nokia for not realizing the potential of Maemo, and in generally not understanding the market.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
That's another mystery for me. According to Google, they activate 160 thousand phones a day, which is over 58 million a year. That's more than 12 million a quarter, and Apple sold "only" 9 million last quarter or so. Now, I have no idea where all these Android phones go because I just don't see them around (I do but they are more rare than WM devices).

Oh, and I should definitely "blame" Microsoft as well for failing miserably with WM, and not producing a new OS in time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Google's statistics are made over a extremely short period of time. The statistics for a entire year is much different.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Oh come on guys!

People have been mocking the iPhone for years for the exact same restrictions that are now in WP7!

People who said copy&paste or multitasking were no big deal have been immediately labeled as Apple fanboys!

And now those exact same restrictions are suddenly OK? The same people who have been mocking and insulting "Apple fanboys" now find those restrictions OK?

WHY?

Because this time they come from Microsoft?! Restrictions are restrictions and they are bad, no matter what company makes them!

In fact, in 2008, the iPhone's restrictions were excusable to some extent, because it was the only smartphone with a UI that everyone could use.

Today, in the light of much more advanced platforms like Android, there's no excuse for those ridiculous restrictions!

In 2008, the iPhone's restrictions were ridiculous and today they're even more so.

They're not any less ridiculous, just because they come from Microsoft this time!

Last time I checked, Android phones were outselling iPhones by 70% and their sales are growing exponentially, while iPhone sales are stagnating.

The iPhone is already losing market share at an increasing rate, while one in four smartphones sold will soon run Android - a percentage Apple will never even come close to (worldwide), thanks to Google.

More of an epic win in my book!

If Microsoft does not improve on WP7 rapidly, Android will be the next Windows within a few years, with 70, 80+% market share. Apple has already lost the battle, but Microsoft still has a chance to share the market with Google one day.

I see people running around with Androids all the time now. In the train, at work... Androids everywhere. And everyone I speak to loves it. All my collegues got Androids, except for than one "Apple fanboy" who only buys Apple stuff. And none of them are geeks!

I've also never come across any posts from an iPhone to Android switcher who regrets his decision. Everyone who has used both says Android is so much better, they love the experience because there are no restrictions.

"Regular people" like Android much more than iOS because it also "just works" and is a much better experience without the restrictions.

(in fact, it seems to be more reliable than iOS on most phones, despite the openness)

Microsoft has to do a lot of work in order to create an experience that's anywhere near as good and the first thing they must do is remove the restrictions.

If they do, there's a good chance that Google won't be the only winner. Their UI looks awesome and without the restrictions, WP7 could be a great experience.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I hate how some forums who allow lame manipulation with the fonts.

Anyway, not going to feed the troll. Fermat is obviously another misinformed mislead lesser being.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Don't call people trolls without a reason.

Better watch what he's talking about,

he actually represents huge part of the future WP7 market.

Better appreciate than neglect.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
No, he's a Android zealot, and thus all hope is lost.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
People have been calling those apologists for Apple's restrictions "Apple fanboys".

What does that mean for those Microsoft apologists?

Better think about it, Windcape, because that's exactly what you are.

Oh and by the way, I don't give a **** about what OS is on a phone as long as it's good!

Thus don't call me an "Android zealot", obviously I'm nothing like that. And it doesn't exactly give you any credibility if you write nonsense like this.
[Windows Phone 7 General] the-hq:
Well in one thing Windcape is definitely right: you get severe eye cancer from fermats typography :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
I get eye cancer from "insertcompanyhere" apologists.
[Windows Phone 7 General] doministry:
Didn't get your point :confused:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
some good news, AT&T is said to be ordering 8 million of these WP7 devices.

I hope they have a good plan up their sleeve.

Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] gerryjoson:
removed for brevity.

Yes, it's hilarious, I hate the iphone, but love WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vetvito:
Why?......

Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
Hilarious indeed....
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
I don't see anything strange in hating the iPhone and loving WP7 (or vice versa, for that matter), as they are diametrically opposite to each other visually.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Fermat:
If you hate the iPhone for its UI, then yes.

But most people have been mocking the iPhone for its restrictions, not the UI. I bet almost everyone on this forum has made fun of the iPhone because it lacked multitasking or copy&paste...
[Windows Phone 7 General] satchef1:
Android's doing well, but not that well.

Those are (afaik) US figures, elsewhere Android's market share is even smaller. By this time next year I suspect it'll be at least double that size, but not to the detriment of Apple. The same study details that smartphones make up 23% of the US cell phone market. That figure will grow in-line with Android's sales as manufacturers realise that the lower end of the market can yield higher sales, more profit and a much smoother ride than constantly going for the 'iPhone Killer'. We're seeing it here in the UK already. Android has struggled here since launch, but handsets like the X10 Mini and HTC Wildfire are now driving both the Android platform and smartphone sales. Retailers are now able to offer a good smartphone for the same price as feature phones, which is really going down well with customers. It's a good thing for the market, should help to bring prices back down after the hike that the iPhone caused.

I think the high-end is likely to remain Apple's to be honest. With good low to mid-range Android handsets on the market their top-end counterparts are going to be a harder sell than they are now. This is a good thing for Android though really, Microsoft are the ones that will have the hard time. They're pretty much banking on being able to steal market-share from Apple, which isn't going to be easy.

I'm sure people will disagree with this, but it's just how I see things. A lot of other guys at the retail/carrier end of the industry have similar thoughts, but this ain't really that sort of site.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vangrieg:
It will never cease to amaze me how people talk about "expensive" and "inexpensive" handsets in the world where phones are subsidized by MOs. Here in Russia, operators aren't allowed by law to force you to pay for services they don't provide, so basically this means when you stop paying they switch you off and stop charging. Thus no long-term contracts are possible and no subsidies for devices are available, everything is sold SIM free and unlocked for whatever retailers wish to charge (an iPhone or HD2 are in the ballpark of $800-$1000). Now that's what I would call expensive, but even then some 30% of handsets sold here are in the $300-$400 range, and 30% are over $400. When you get an iPhone for $299, how in the world do people consider this "expensive"? When you choose between a phone for $150 and $300 for two years, the whole difference is a whopping $6/mo. Does it really stop people from buying things they like?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
The iPhone is a bit of a special case, as it's locked down to a single carrier with some explicit plans in the US. And US is always used for statistics and considered to be the market leader.

I think the price is one of the reasons Android got popular. The original Android handsets were half the price of a iPhone 3GS. Which meant a lot.

Hopefully WP7 will be targeting the iPhone segment, with semi-expensive phones with high quality hardware, as opposed to Androids "lets run this on anything, with no hardware requirements" strategy (no need to tell how much it failed, no?)