yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
let's stop being "real" and start being realistic

I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...

as a faithful user of the most advanced pocketpc ever built ever since it launched (htc universal or jasjar) I'll just reply to those "strengths"

First ond foremost, the windows mobile had its success because users were able to hack it and expand it BEYOND of what they payed for. if we limited ourselves to what M$ provided, this site wouldn't exist and the HTC would have gone bankrupt. :mad:

1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements

You have Xbox and yet you are going to be playing on a phone?

2. Finger Friendly

in addition to every single SW company having developed the touch finger application keyboard, there are devices with their own keyboards, which actually work MUCH better then the touch mode ever will because you can feel the keys and you're able to predict where the next one is, at least until they invent the physically morphing touch screen.

3. Sharp modern UI

simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded. SPB mobile shell for instance gave the smooth design and modern hi-tech look to 6.1 phones. their only limitation was the processor and the memory. but that's how the digital revolution started - microsoft made ever more demanding OSes and Intel made processors to match. If you start spinning in circles around an antiquated graphics and limited applications, why would they innovate?

4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.

apps that cannot be made by anyone else without a license by microsoft. and no one is using microsoft products on their pocketpc's because they are inefficient, large and expensive.

5. Good minimum requirements

nokia's s40 phones require even less resources, and offer greater UI, usability and stability. and they are as customizeable as the win 7, and yet people don't seriously consider using them as a PDA capable to integrate with the market's dominant and upcoming applications.

6. Easy and well thought out development tools.

We'll see...

7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.

Zune is a MUSIC PLAYER! PERIOD! it's function is to play music! what everything? :mad:

8. Great Social networking integration

if you're referring to that travesty of facebook integration, I used the Windows Live Messenger Beta and let me tell you how it works: the system makes assumptions that videos and most popular items demand our attention, and they are in big, while the rest is small, so it's not about keeping track of your friends, it's about flashing content to a moron public.

9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.

Will we be able to activesync our device over the wi-fi or via internet??

10. Great use of Office on mobile.

I would gladly pay good money to see a microsoft developer use a touch-only phone to create and modify a corporate-standard excel or even word file...
[Windows Phone 7 General] nizzon:
Dude you are in the wrong thread.

This is where you should post -> WP7 is complete FAIL

Take of your foilhat. ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I'm not, but I'll apply for a position in 2 years time when I'm finished with my second bachelor.

Funny, I thought that Windows Mobile development was the original topic of xda-developers. It's not like the name itself says so, no no.

Yes. Welcome to 2010.

I see you have zero experience in usability or design. Go read some Jakob Nielsen, and come back when you find yourself in a suitable position to discuss usability design on phones.

Clearly you been living in a cave for the last five years. The developer license also grants you the ability to host your applications on the marketplace, and is common practice for all mobile developers. Even Google have it for Android.

See again you completely misunderstood what the customers want. And the minimum requirements is so you don't get ****ty phones like all Android devices from 2009 / early 2010.

No, we already seen. Visual Studio and Expression Blend goes years back, and is popular and known development tools. Microsoft have the largest developer community on earth (MSDN), and they are so far the only who managed to actually create so much community around their technology and tools. Even the Linux community can't follow here.

And most of the developers in MSDN are professionals, so it's used for solving real-life problems. And if you're a consumer, and not a developer, you won't understand the importance of this.

Also XNA available on WP7 means it's the first phone with a gaming framework available from day one.

No, Zune is a online music-service, a desktop music player ,and a music-player device. And in WP7, the online service and desktop client will work along with the phone. A lot of us like to use our smartphones for music, for example, while biking to work or studies.

Microsoft don't make assumptions, they got detailed statistics over the functionality people use in Windows Live Messenger. Just because you don't behave like the other 300 million users, doesn't make it wrong.

It's designed for the average consumer, and they done a very good job with that. More consumers = more people to buy our apps = more money for us.

Both

Phones are less meant for modify, as for accessing the information in the said data.

It's handy if you're on the road, and want to pull out some data to compare with people you're discussing with or similar.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Scotsman828:
vk2000

You nail that one!:D
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Actually the font is Segoe WP. And the flat squares will be replaced with images and partially display icons among others.

Which makes it even better than just a bunch of techno-color icons.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
clearly you guys are either very young or like to suck up to your (hoped) employer a lot :)

quoting the only author you know, doesn't make you smart, it makes you a charlatan. you should find a good dictionary if you don't know what that word is, since you clearly don't understand what I am saying anyway.

If you're going to play games on something small, you should buy a PSP

and

I've been following the IT development ever since I was 8 and computers ran on Windows 3.11

I don't require a degree in design to state clearly as a user who is going to pay 300-1000 euros, that a PDA should be

1) USABLE

2) reliable

3) USABLE

4) customizable and upgradeable

the fact that people are buying does not mean that the product is good, they're either poised with offensive marketing, like apple does, or they don't have any better choice! Statistics are meaningless more often then not, and you would know their significance if you studied statistics, 4 different types of sociology, macroeconomics and international financial relations, on your way to your M.Sc., like I did ;)

games on the phone existed since Sun decided to make Java for mobile markets, so... a decade of "nothing new" to you :D . if windows 7 was able to reach the sophistication of the mobile gaming consoles, it would have been something, otherwise it's a child's toy, not suitable for business!

given you know nothing about the mobile market before you learned to talk and talk-back, I'm not surprised you would be satisfied even with yet another shade of "solitaire" :p

and as for my design capabilities, my photographic portfolio and web-design are always a winner :cool: what do you got to offer besides a big tongue and lack of arguments?
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
we went from 3d transparent and interactive icons BACK to a SQUARE 1, junior...

you should familiarize yourself with the hard work of so many people on this forum who are trying to change the OS from "default to outstanding" for free and for the benefit of everyone
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
So you think your personal preferences makes up for the 300 million target users that Microsoft have in the Windows Live and Zune cloud?

You think you can invalidate a business-model just because someone done something similar before? You think the phone sucks because you don't like it, even you haven't got the slightest idea how it works, how to develop for it or how to sell applications for it (or for phones in general).

From a consumer, business and software-engineering point of view, WP7 is damn near perfect.

So how about you let us know how old you actually are, and what you actually study, if you absolutely want to include personal attacks in your qq'ing.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
And do you have any idea why they did this? Have you ever read a usability study of a smartphone? Have you ever done a usability study of any device, or interface at all?

Or could it be that the professionals know more than you do.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
yes, the development which microsoft would rather SELL then have their original designs improved for free...

this site was under many attacks from microsoft which threatened its shutdown because of the freely available development efforts, in spite of the fact this way people have more options with their devices.

otherwise, why do you believe they no longer want to maintain compatibility with the existing software market (free or otherwise), and are designing a new concept which can run even on mediocre hardware, but the software and function upgrade is to be only microsoft's prerogative?

on this website there was never a problem with viruses or security issues with patches and mods provided by the users, so it can't be that.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
If the site been threated for anything, it would been distribution of copyrighted materials, I'd figure. Just like HTC just done the same.

Our ability to develop software for devices, is fine to the extend it's inside of the legal boundaries. And one of those is distribution of copyrighted materials.

Even today many sections, including this one, have topics that distribute copyrighted materials. More than enough to have any large company issue a takedown on the site, if the materials aren't removed. People should frown upon such topics for the greater good of the site, instead of trying to justify it in the name of the interwebz.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
dude, copy mp3 files to your device and press play, the pretty graphics won't make the music sound better......it's been done that way since Rio 32 MB mp3 player costed 200 German Marks,

and

since Nokia introduced the symbian with 7650 (of which I was a proud owner).

It had 4 MB and no external storage, but, because software developers were eager to push the frontiers, if was possible to use it even as a mp3 player, remote control, bluetooth file exchange and videocamera. NOTHING of those capabilities was even remotely possible by default.
[Windows Phone 7 General] the-hq:
No I don't, yes I will.

What is your problem here? There will be Windows Phone 7 handsets that have a physical keyboard, as well as touch-only devices. Maybe you should watch some of the latest WP7 videos on youtube?

Simplistic with icon is how most things where you need to get your information fast are working (airports, train stations, traffic).

The flat text UI somehow extends to the third dimension when pressed, the text itself is moving a little. Again: Watch some of the latest videos

Second: It's not Arial, it's the Segoe WP font (similiar to the Segoe UI from Windows Vista/7)

Zune is also a video player, podcast player and maybe even will extend to ebooks somewhen...

So you are now starting to compare a desktop (!!) program in beta state (!!!!) to Windows Phone 7. What the hell dude?

Again: Watch the videos and see how the integration works. It's all in the peoples hub...

You want to pay money for this? There is more than one demonstration where a MS developer is editing information in a Excel file, using the touch only device.

Now I hope you will send some money to someone...
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
What is your problem here? There will be Windows Phone 7 handsets that have a physical keyboard, as well as touch-only devices. Maybe you should watch some of the latest WP7 videos on youtube?

....my point was that the finger friendly mode is not new....
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Today we're talking music in gigabytes, and thousand of tracks. So obviously we'll need searching, visualization (album covers), proper support for tagging (Android fails extremely here).

Plus you forget the whole idea with streaming music (Zune Pass, Spotify, and so on), is more and more popular. Why should I copy files to a limited disk-space device, when I can access them though the internet?

In the modern world we got flat-rate internet, even for our phones, just to let you know. My knowledge of internet in Eastern Europe says it's not ever so common there :p

So basically we need a proper interface, and a good service interface to a music service like Zune or Spotify. This is what WP7 offers as a core service. And there are million of customers willingly to pay for it, plus for a half-expensive internet supply for their phone so they can listen to it.

You can stay a hater, and let the rest of us make the money, it's not my problem in the end.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
I'll send it to your mental institution, but I know it will be a waste, like your English level :D

what they are demonstrating doesn't come even close to the corporate standard that I am talking about, if they make a formula that sums up 2 and 2 and turns out to be four....I can understand why they think it's a revolution, but when people need to edit a yearly company financial statement, they need a lot more in both space and usability.

BTW, so far mobile office was never able to be completely compatible with it's own documents....just do a bit more advanced power point presentation and transfer it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I'm beginning to wonder if @vk2000 actually knows what a smartphone is.

I mean, he keep pretending it's meant to be a laptop, and complains when it's not. I guess he don't own one.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
oh I hope you know that English proverb that goes: if you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans :)

the streaming service can be done with other players as well, and I wish you ever had experience with Orb just so you could understand just how old and how free this concept is. why pay for streaming music many times over, when you can access your home's collection for free? ;)

again, you underestimate me :) I've been living in italy for many years, and if you checked my provider rather then my country you could assume I am already synchronizing my PDA 24h/day for 5 euros per month. the fact that Serbia does not have a flat rate is Telenor's fault, who is a lot closer to you then me ;)

about that mobile flat rate you have, you probably didn't know this but the European Commission fined a Spanish mobile provider for that several years ago, so enjoy it while you can :)
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
read my post, PDA's are not just toys! they were INVENTED for business environment in the first place!

correction, I don't own yours ;)
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
People today don't have home collections, Orb is a piece of crap, and in general people want proper streaming services. They just aren't available in Europe, as opposed to Asia and USA.

Also flat-rate internet is perfectly legal. My guess is you don't even know what the word means, if you say such fooling things. Basically I pay 20 euro a month for 10gb traffic per month on my phone. Lets just say, I never hit the cap yet.

So you don't have a smartphone device, and don't use any mobile device like the average consumer uses a device, yet you think everybody is like you. Either you're trolling, or you're just plain stupid.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
PDAs aren't the same as smartphones in todays context.

Further discussion here is moot, as you have zero idea what you're talking about.

Go buy a iPhone, who knows, you might get hooked into the magic world of being "on" all the time.
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
actually I was going to suggest something like that to you, since I talk business, and you talk music and games and defent a future OS which will resemble iPhone, while you clearly lack arguments and experience :)

good luck with that sucking up to microsoft, I'm sure you'll make a fine addition to the team which made these headlines in the "International Business Times":

hxxp://tinyurl.com/3yop4s7
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
Success? and Windows Mobile Phone? :eek:

Users hacked in to it because M$ DID NOT provide any app support or marketplace support. When people don't get what is needed, then ONLY does hacking begin. Not before.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
@vk2000: You're not talking business, because you have zero idea about the business models behind iPhone and WP7. You don't seem to understand anything when it comes to making a product available to average customers, and neither to understand anything of the business capabilities WP7 offers in form of Office, Exchange and SharePoint integration, along with the marketplace and it's features such as trial APIs, and shared games account information for XBox And WP7.

So you're just some youngster who can't affort a iPhone, and thus thing everything but your old and ****ty PDA is crap.

When you catch up with 2010, let us know.

(Also people hiding their personal informations, but yet do personal attacks, are always kids.)
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
I guess you also play Vinyl records and still write letters using a fountain pen instead of using email :p

Physical Keyboard...ha ha..In this virtual world, why do you need anything real?
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
He's using a PDA, I mean, that says just about everything about him. Stuck in the 90s for sure.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
This I agree with you. Creating a complex document on a tiny phone is mind boggling and time wasting. But I am willing to see if some developer actually did something creative to make it a better experience or not.
[Windows Phone 7 General] :
Do Away with those ugly iPhone Icons Wanna Be

nevermind........
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
They will.

The "tiles" are actually amazing for the notification system. You'll see much more about it when the first devices are released.

Also:

PDA: http://sartechnology.ca/sartechnology/PDA6.jpg

iPhone: http://www.iphonebuzz.com/gallery/files/5/2/2/iPhone_safari.jpg

The world come a long way, heh. To bad certain people are still stuck in the 90s.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
He he he...you could not be any more wrong

My Phones (all in use - I have 5 lines):

Siemens SX-66 (HTC Blue Angel)

Samsung BlackJack

Nokia 6682

Sony P910i

Iphone 3G

Iphone 3GS

HTC Pure

I have an MBA and also have my own business for the last many years....
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
I was replying to vk2000 ;)

(However, if you got that many phones, why the hell haven't you moved to Verizon yet?)
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
oops...for a moment I thought u were blasting me. Sorry about that.

I got great discounts from ATT...so...and ATT has the Iphone..that also helps :D

example...got the 3GS in January 2010...dropped in Feb 2010...went back and complained about the phone with a cracked screen...got a new one...free.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Europe need Zune Pass, USA needs free choice of carrier for their phones

oh the irony :p
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
options are bad....really.

customers get confused and end up buying nothing.

Classic case: iPhone. No options. Sell a ton.
[Windows Phone 7 General] Windcape:
Works well here. Plus it means we don't have to pay to teether our devices. Any device that is :)

I wonder what Microsofts plan will be, hopefully it'll be to sell it without teethering locks, like Apple does. Wouldn't really be their style.

It's so lovely to bring the mobile phone along with the laptop, and have instant internet everywhere I go.
[Windows Phone 7 General] the-hq:
Special tip for you: There are laptops out there for doing stuff like this.

A yearly company financial statement is something quite important, if you need to start that file on your phone because you are too late on it - then you should quit your job ASAP
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
oh, just that??

hahahahah, flat internet is when you DON'T have any traffic or TIME limitations....what you have is IGNORANCE and ARROGANCE, not the flat internet. and it serves you well, since you would rather suck up to whoever has more money, like a good Nordic.

I myself didn't have such limitations ever since I stopped using satellite internet back in 2002, when you were still admiring computers from a far :D
[Windows Phone 7 General] vk2000:
in any case, if I am the only one who is wrong, the Dutch-boy over there will make a lot of money selling crappy ideas to M$, at least he hopes so :D

in any case, I'll just re-post this link for those who don't believe that the world revolves around their arrogance

for those of you who confuse your LIMITED data plan with the FLAT internet, Microsoft KIN is the actual Win Mobile 7 with merely a couple of changes...
[Windows Phone 7 General] RustyGrom:
Go to 1:02 in the TechEd keynote. I'll PM you my PayPal address :)

LOLOLOL. "Windows Mobile 7" codename "photon" was scrapped. Windows PHONE 7 is entirely different than Kin. Kin doesn't even meet the minimum specs for WP7.
[Windows Phone 7 General] why_999:
Well it seems that Microsoft is in the right direction on this phone :) making it easier for developers to produce programs. The more people that buy the phone the more programs that will be available win/win

With the design.... each to them selfs (personal!!)

My only concern is that every program needs to be installed from the market place and can't side-loaded (I guess similar to iTunes), and we won't have a choice were the phone stores the apps (from Da_G post)..

But its early days.. we all can thank the great minds working on it already. even if its crippled like the iPhone I'm sure we'll find away around anything microsoft puts around it.
[Windows Phone 7 General] chikoo:
correct.

that is a big reason that I use htc and fan of xda because I can tether w/o paying ant more sucker fees :cool:
[Windows Phone 7 General] cPT.cAPSLOCK:
The tiles aren't "Coloured Square + text" - They're interactive. For example, the pictures tile gives a kind of miniature slideshow of pictures in your gallery, the peoples tile shows thumbnails of your contacts in a 3x3 grid, and so on. The start screen feels 'alive' - There are some demonstrations that show this very well. It's clean, not simplistic. And those two expressions are very different from eachother, and often misused.

Don't forget that this forum was grounded because default wasn't good enough, but had the possibility of manually improving things. If WP7 starts as pure awesomeness, it will take much longer before things are getting hacked, because more hackers are already satisfied and thus don't see the need to spend time on things. If MS does things right with WP7, all the hard work you mention is not necissary anymore.

This is not what mobile office apps are designed for. Get a laptop.

It is possible, but absolutely not productive.

Mobile office apps are meant to read, or make slight modifications and corrections on the go.

+1 - But I prefer choice of carrier over Zune Pass anytime.

Keeps prices low.

Stop flaming. You're right that flat is unlimited for a fixed fee, but it serves no point. Also, you were WRONG in plenty of your other posts, so STFU kthxbai.

WP7 is absolutely different from KIN. We knew KIN'd phail from the start.

I'm not sure if having 1 marketplace is a bad thing.

It makes it easier to find applications, because everything's always in the same spot.

However, it reduces the credit developers get (face it: if you publish an app on your personal blog you get more kudos than from a marketplace), and there can be censoring.

There's only one way to find out if it was a good decision: Wait for launch, and see how things evolve from there.