yashsingh1/xdaforums huggingface dataset:
[EVO 4G General] Aridon:
^^^^^

This.

We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.

We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.

Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!

Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
[EVO 4G General] EtherealRemnant:
Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read. :mad::mad::mad:
[EVO 4G General] ramiss:
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.

I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
[EVO 4G General] donatom3:
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
[EVO 4G General] EliWay:
Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
[EVO 4G General] bigworm460:
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.

My .02-
[EVO 4G General] rockdrummersrock:
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
[EVO 4G General] jmxp69:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.

People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.

I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.

Consider some of the most asked newb questions:

"How do I flash this"

"I can't get adb to work"

"When will it be out"

"My battery sucks, what do I do"

Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.

How do we put that together?

For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.

I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.

I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"

One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.

Apologize for the rant...
[EVO 4G General] PoisonWolf:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.

Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.

On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.

XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
[EVO 4G General] ap3604:
Gotta agree 100%.

Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
[EVO 4G General] redrazr7791:
Finally! I couldn't agree more.
[EVO 4G General] Rootwind:
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.

Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
[EVO 4G General] ramiss:
I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.

If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
[EVO 4G General] 06ms6:
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
[EVO 4G General] ramiss:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.

And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
[EVO 4G General] redrazr7791:
Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.

It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t:mad:
[EVO 4G General] fifoloveritas:
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for one day. Set a man on fire, you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

edit: there's plenty of good info on this forum, if people will just bother to look an read. I wen from total novice to fully rooting my Evo from a couple of days of reading here. Now changing ROMs, flashing mods has become routine.
[EVO 4G General] chandlerw88:
Yeah its annoying to get people who refuse to search, that being said people are people and yeah it sucks but what's the point of getting on someone because 10 min later theres gonna be another, its really easier to just not answer and make them search. But to rib somebody can be kinda messed up. Call me a hippie, Im just a peaceful solutionist. Im fairly new myself so it hasn't pressed my buttons the same way it has with the older members. Maybe they should change the rules to like you cant post threads until a certain point. Iono, I've been lucky and haven't pissed anyone off.........yet
[EVO 4G General] arkshel:
I'm new to XDA and have no problem looking & searching for anything, really I don't know why people are having problems, I'm just glad this forum exists.

:) Evo user
[EVO 4G General] josidhe:
Everyone does need to learn to search eventually, and I could understand perhaps starting with a so-and-so-many replies before you can start a thread system, but at the same time a newbie is a newbie, and because he's a newbie, he's too new to realize the frustration. Nobody should be held responsible for the entirety of newbinity that came before them. It's probably more unreasonable to expect skills from newbs than to expect patience from regulars. Someone has to take the high road.

What's truly, genuinely frustrating is when a newb gets hammered for not searching before posting, just to get hammered again for searching and reviving an old thread. Sort of a damned if you do/don't thing.

/it might be interesting if, upon first signing up for a forum membership, users were locked into a tutorial mode that required them to walk through a basic search before they'd be allowed to access the forum while logged in. I do not know if any forum engine today could offer that sort of functionality, but it would solve a lot of problems, yeah?

//remember, in the old days computers were riddled with tutorial walk-throughs. many considering themselves 'advanced' or 'enthusiast' today had access to a time when Windows (3.x) had a tutorial mode, Packard Bells had very deep DOS/PC introductions, word processors had step-by-step guides to document creation, etc. nowadays, such tutorials are virtually extinct or sold separately as education tools. we're raising a new generation of techies that are far more 'on their own' than those of us who started with Prodigy/CIM/BBSes, lol
[EVO 4G General] jmxp69:
Then you obviously miss the point of open forums and the Internet in general. Just why do you think they spend so much time making forum software able to catalog and organize information in a usable way? You would probably be the first one to ***** if all I did was give you SQL query statements to insert or extract the information being shared here. This forum is simply a front end to that information.

You're entitled to your opinion, but there's a reason wikis and faqs exist and have even been written by folks like toast. The idea is to make information easier to retrieve.

The problem isn't searching, it's searching through the piles of crap that get intermixed in the threads containing useful information and the fact that probably 90% of the information here is speculative.
[EVO 4G General] jmxp69:
Wow, not how you started out at all:
[EVO 4G General] realKURE:
Sheesh, some of you are a little harsh. I think maybe you should go by the if you dont have something nice to say dont say it at all belief. I'm new n i do some serious searching before i post a question and post only as a last resort. But not everyone is as search savvy. I think it takes as much energy to help as it does to roast someone. So if you think somone's question is dumb just move on and let a helpful n more patient person respond. I also agree that we should have a wiki. And while we're discussing the community I jus wanna say XDA owns, thanks for all of your breakthroughs and help. :)

- Sent from my HTC Evo using XDA App
[EVO 4G General] redrazr7791:
I'm sorry, is it my signature that upset you :rolleyes:

Yes, I may have had a newbie moment when I first started out...a few years ago. However, In that time I have owned numerous phones and taught myself by searching and reading. If I couldn't find the answer to my question and felt it justified, I would then ask a question.

Next time you want to go through all my posts to make a statement...don't just look for ammunition to sling at me. Look at the date I asked...2008! Two years or so before you even joined. This argument ends now between you and I. If you don't like it, take it to the PM system or tell a Mod. Thanks and have a nice night :cool:
[EVO 4G General] beesneazy:
Am new here, and will say this; been on too many Forums only to find out that a lot of times Search functions kinda suck. But sometimes scanning through appropriate areas is just as good ... just saying ... then again it never hurts to take a shot on google anyways before starting a thread / asking a question. Such as, "what is Froyo?" LOL
[EVO 4G General] ramiss:
I completely agree with you about open forums and the internet. My point, and yes I did state that this was my opinion, is that the XDA forum is primarily a forum for Developers and not End users. After all, doesn't your browser's page title currently say "xda-developers"...;)

Please let me be clear on this. I think anyone can use and participate in the forum. I am just suggesting that we shouldn't automatically consolidate a 100 page thread into a 1 post solution to help end-users. The journey is just as important, and the bits of information learned along the way may help other developers.

I know it is hard to determine my tone in a post but I wasn't *****ing. Sorry if I came across that way. OT: I do happen to understand how forums and databases work. I am part owner in a web hosting company and have spent the last 6 years programming DB front ends. So I think a forum of SQL statements would be funny!

I think Wikis, FAQs are great. Forgive me if I am wrong, but you comment that "For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works." tells me that ALL you want is Wikis and FAQs. Which I disagree with. Please tell me if I missunderstood your post because that was the statement I was responding to.

I agree 100%. But even if we remove the entire 90% of speculative posts the argument still exists that new users will have problems digging through the technical jargon, so it didn't really pertain to what I was trying to say.

Again, please take this as a friendly debate between forum users. I am interested in your response.
[EVO 4G General] chandlerw88:
I know nothing has been said on this thread recently but there's alot of scrooges on the evo forums, slot of trolling going on, I just don't see how another human being can belittle someone so badly, its just not right when you can simply not answer the question. But what's funny is how these people who do this are only doing it because they can hide behind their devices. My rant about a few people I've came into contact with on here.great thread for venting.
[EVO 4G General] dglowe343:
It may not always be a case of people not searching. Not everyone is familiar with using forums. Granted, it isn't all that complicated. However, I feel if you don't have something different, constructive, or helpful to say, DON'T POST! I work with people who think they know everything and act surprised when other people don't. Like was said earlier, you might be flaming someone who had donated to this community. Be disrespectful somewhere else. (like an iPhone forum) ;-)
[EVO 4G General] thenewguy821:
Just a thought, I know I have come across it in some other Forums, so it should be possible to do here. Can't the "Powers that be" Make the Developer section Read only for members, and only allow posting in that section to the developers themselves? By developers, I mean the guys making ROMs and Kernels, not just splash screens and themes, etc. Not that their work is any less appreciated, but it would limit the odd theme added into the developer section with 2-3 pages of "Post in the right section", as well as keep from having a 700 page thread associated with one ROM. It would esentially clean up the developer area, leaving the dev's room to add updates, hot-fixes, etc, in their own threads, without having 1 post with so many fixes/updates, that the average Joe isn't going to read through it to find the info.
[EVO 4G General] kwajr:
Yep gotten bad I've been on here for a few years and its just gotten bad need to mod a little better

Sent from my Evo on on the Now network from Sprint

oh and duck Apple
[EVO 4G General] SilverZero:
I'll volunteer to mod the Evo forums. I have experience and a low tolerance for jerks. :)

Posted from my Evo, powered by the XDA app!
[EVO 4G General] chandlerw88:
S.T.O.P

Stop

Trolling

Or

Perish

Haha I got nothing
[EVO 4G General] echoside:
I had an account here a few years ago and well long story short didn't have much free time untill recently and I have noticed a change. I have also notice a HUGE increase in fanboy posts that are usually not even true. It gets on my nerves and I usually don't post because I am trying to watch myself. For instance a thread a couple days ago. I don't remember the exact context but someone had an issue with his/her evo. Then somebody posts well i still dont like the iphone.....where did that come from? I'm not trying to defend the iPhone but comeon....the thread had nothing to do about it and the post came out of nowhere.....:confused::confused::confused:

HTC Evo 4G

EVOlutionV9 1.19 ghz

47.072 MFLOPS

42 FPS
[EVO 4G General] snake411:
I couldnt have said this better myself.

*This was posted from my Evo 4G using Tapatalkpro! Great app, if you want to browse and post through many dfferent forums*
[EVO 4G General] topdnbass:
Its more a problem now than it used to be.. Mostly because the amount of android fanboys has grown exponentially.

I dont have a resolution but people could be a bit more courteous, especially when they have no clue what theyre talking about.
[EVO 4G General] mspiegle:
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but I've seen this work in other forums...

Basically, you create a new "dumb question" category where anyone can post any question without searching. Nobody is allowed to tell them to go search, or give them a hard time about asking the question. You either answer their question, or ignore. In forums where this has been somewhat successful, there will always be people who ask questions without searching, and there are almost always people who are willing to answer those questions without *****ing.

Just a thought...
[EVO 4G General] bjaxon:
I completely agree with this. I am new to these forums. I have been floating around here since December when I got my Hero (my thing says May because I created a new user without realizing I had already joined with an old email.) Now That I have my Evo, I have been learning the ways of the force and trying to get a solid grasp on the more complex sides of a rooted phone.

Yet, it is very hard to search for answers and learn new things about all this when (like said above) you have to go though a ton of pages to get through the crap.

One thing that drives me crazy is when something new comes out and there 2 pages of people saying "awe man I'm stuck at work but I will flash this later and tell you what I think." Well, ok, why don't you just flash it later without giving us an update on how your day is going to be laid out. It adds more clutter, and for someone new that is trying to honestly learn like me it becomes too much of a hassle to find something that should be simple to locate.

- Not a sermon, just a thought.
[EVO 4G General] redrazr7791:
How in the world did I not see this post? I can't speak for everyone, but I have to agree with what Aridon said. I would add my own view, but this sums it all up.

I'm not here to be nice, I'm here to learn and discuss issues about my phone. Don't like the phone? Return it. I don't know how many threads have been started about the $10 fee or what causes battery drainage or why doesn't my bluetooth play music? Yet, when members get upset and "flame" the OP, they get called rude or mean! Seriously, grow up or take the baby-crying someplace else.
[EVO 4G General] Alya:
I am new to all of this and thank many XDA members for the education I have received. I see and understand both sides. I find the search engine on XDA harder to use then just reading and learning at times. Sometimes reading and learning multiple pages....I see where it would get frustrating for those of you who are way more advanced than those of us learning but we do appreciate the time, energy, and help that you give to us. Thanks for being patient!!
[EVO 4G General] ap3604:
That is DISGUSTING brotha' :(

I agree 100%... I go though phases where I will try to help out and answer questions, then get burned out on the stupidity here and start flaming, then back to being helpful...

Its a vicious and never-ending cycle ;)
[EVO 4G General] chandlerw88:
I understand the frustration, alot of this stuff is easy yeah but everyone, including myself because im only like 6 months in from hackin stuff other than a iphone, needs help sometimes. But to talk down on someone when you can simply not answer the question is when I get upset. Like if you go out of your way just to make someone feel stupid, I thought that abuse in itself wasnt allowed in xda. I too have used forums for awhile, but I just don't see what it is to make some people frustrated enough to do it. Just my opinion.
[EVO 4G General] pocky1:
LMFAO this is the most funniest thread ever on evo general. But i can feel for the flamers how they get frustrated but i'm usually too lazy to flame. But since were all ranting You know what really grinds my gears the damn spell check people sum tyms i jst wanna mispel my words lyke this